FiremanMike
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I mean, I’ve intubated people, I know how pressers work and how to titrate.. I should be able to just test out of their licensure exam..……
Thoughts on RNs being allowed to challenge Medic exam?
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DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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but could you pass? I would imagine (and I have 0 knowledge here) that you would fail the licensure exam, because you don't have enough education in that area... and if you did pass, than I would question if the licensure exam appropriately tested you on what you needed to know to be a CRNA
FiremanMike
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I think you missed my sarcasm.
Comfort Care
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Hilarious, would be nice to skip a 3 year CRNA DNP program along with the 100Ks of tuition.
Summit
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Right? Sign me up for P-school tomorrow!
Bullets
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Im not saying your wrong but our community college runs a nursing course. Straight from high school into a 2 year program, you come out with an associates and can sit for the NCLEX, pass it an you get your RN license. afterward you can go on and transfer the credits to one of the state colleges to finish your bachelors, but those courses are medical, theyre all gut classes.
CCCSD
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Got a link so I can verify that they all graduate two years after start?
akflightmedic
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That is what I was going to say, I am going to need to see a link, because as described, it does not meet accreditation standards as the only way to meet graduating in two years straight out of high school is if they cut some serious corners. The pre-reqs alone take on average 2 years to complete. Every ASN/ADN program I have seen is a minimum of 60 credit hours. I do not see how this is met with what you have described.
And I always thought you (Bullets) are in CA, which if you are, makes me question your statement even further. CA has one of the strictest licensing processes I have ever seen. In regards to obtaining a license there once licensed elsewhere, so I am only extrapolating from there.
And I always thought you (Bullets) are in CA, which if you are, makes me question your statement even further. CA has one of the strictest licensing processes I have ever seen. In regards to obtaining a license there once licensed elsewhere, so I am only extrapolating from there.
FiremanMike
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I won't link my CC admissions requirement website because I like to keep at least some anonymity, but I can attest it's technically possible to gain entry into the ADN program at 18 provided you have an STNA in hand, can test into college statistics, have a high school GPA of 2.6, and can test well on the HESI entrance exam.
In those cases, the non nursing classes would be taken concurrently with the nursing classes, which would absolutely brutal in my opinion. In fact I just looked at the sample curriculum and it looks absolutely awful.
VentMonkey
Family Guy
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The Missus knew from an early age (pre-teen/ teen) that she wanted to go to nursing school. She started college level prereq’s in HS, got her CNA and worked at a SNF and hospital prior to nursing school.
All of this was before she hit 20. Her nursing program had a wait list to contend with so she found an “in” with the program director. All in all it was ~4 years until she completed the program at a CC.
All this to say, even a very ambitious young person may (more than likely will) encounter road blocks to an associates degree/ program that does admittedly seem extensive to some degree. Again, not including prereqs before even being eligible to apply for the program.
This was in the early 2000’s, and in CA.
All of this was before she hit 20. Her nursing program had a wait list to contend with so she found an “in” with the program director. All in all it was ~4 years until she completed the program at a CC.
All this to say, even a very ambitious young person may (more than likely will) encounter road blocks to an associates degree/ program that does admittedly seem extensive to some degree. Again, not including prereqs before even being eligible to apply for the program.
This was in the early 2000’s, and in CA.
Summit
Critical Crazy
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AAS... what is that?
It is worth it to note the difference between the lightweight AAS degree (versus an AS/AA) that is mostly focused on applied learning and not general learning but without a substantial gen-ed pre-req.
Most paramedic degrees around here are AAS. A nearby school has a paramedic AAS with all the small amount of gen-ed built into the <2yr curriculum so you might be taking English while you are taking medic courses. I've seen in that past CC's that have a 21 month paramedic AAS where the first semester is getting your EMT, IV, EKG, and a gen-ed, the second semester is the lightweight version of A&P that wouldn't meet uni standards plus some other gen-eds into summer, then the end of the program is paramedic didactic/clinical and gen-ed.
Atypical and rare RN programs:
There are a few AAS RN programs out there that cram everything into 5-6 semesters. They are outliers and typically don't carry the same academic (key for transfer articulation) or nursing accreditation (ACEN) as ADN/ASN programs which causes problems for license portability and further education. Example, these AAS are typically not accepted as associate degrees by universities (ie students will be told they have to take more prereq classes to even apply to a CCNE or ACEN BSN completion program).
However, there are ADN programs that select new applicants with no college and go 2 (full) years (but this is 6 semesters as they run in the summer too) usually totaling out 72-84 credit hours because they build the gen-ed/prereqs into the program. Often these have high attrition rates, which is why most programs are set to be *just* nursing and you show up and are judged for admission based on performance in pre-reqs.
Typical RN programs
Most ASN programs are 4-5 semesters (60-72 credit hours) AFTER prereqs, often about 30 credit hours, that typically take 2-3 semesters, so usually it is a 3 year process. (Of note, the diploma nursing schools of yore were typically 3 years programs).
BSN entry-to-practice programs are typically also 60-72 credit hours AFTER 60+ credit hours of prereqs, so most students take 4-5 years.
Accelerated BSN programs are 60-72 credits AFTER 120+ (often much more after specific prereqs) credit hours and an bachelors degree, but it is crammed into a grueling 12-18 months.
Most programs have also require passing a standardized test entrance exam (HESI, CASPER, Kaplan, etc) and some require passing a standardized exit exam in addition to the program requirements before they will authorize you for NCLEX.
It is worth it to note the difference between the lightweight AAS degree (versus an AS/AA) that is mostly focused on applied learning and not general learning but without a substantial gen-ed pre-req.
Most paramedic degrees around here are AAS. A nearby school has a paramedic AAS with all the small amount of gen-ed built into the <2yr curriculum so you might be taking English while you are taking medic courses. I've seen in that past CC's that have a 21 month paramedic AAS where the first semester is getting your EMT, IV, EKG, and a gen-ed, the second semester is the lightweight version of A&P that wouldn't meet uni standards plus some other gen-eds into summer, then the end of the program is paramedic didactic/clinical and gen-ed.
Atypical and rare RN programs:
There are a few AAS RN programs out there that cram everything into 5-6 semesters. They are outliers and typically don't carry the same academic (key for transfer articulation) or nursing accreditation (ACEN) as ADN/ASN programs which causes problems for license portability and further education. Example, these AAS are typically not accepted as associate degrees by universities (ie students will be told they have to take more prereq classes to even apply to a CCNE or ACEN BSN completion program).
However, there are ADN programs that select new applicants with no college and go 2 (full) years (but this is 6 semesters as they run in the summer too) usually totaling out 72-84 credit hours because they build the gen-ed/prereqs into the program. Often these have high attrition rates, which is why most programs are set to be *just* nursing and you show up and are judged for admission based on performance in pre-reqs.
Typical RN programs
Most ASN programs are 4-5 semesters (60-72 credit hours) AFTER prereqs, often about 30 credit hours, that typically take 2-3 semesters, so usually it is a 3 year process. (Of note, the diploma nursing schools of yore were typically 3 years programs).
BSN entry-to-practice programs are typically also 60-72 credit hours AFTER 60+ credit hours of prereqs, so most students take 4-5 years.
Accelerated BSN programs are 60-72 credits AFTER 120+ (often much more after specific prereqs) credit hours and an bachelors degree, but it is crammed into a grueling 12-18 months.
Most programs have also require passing a standardized test entrance exam (HESI, CASPER, Kaplan, etc) and some require passing a standardized exit exam in addition to the program requirements before they will authorize you for NCLEX.
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FiremanMike
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Interesting.. my degree says AAS which I thought was curious at the time but just figured that's what they all are.
After your post, I researched the supposed differences between ADN, ASN, and AAS in nursing and found that my program has nearly all the coursework expected of ADN/ASN, full anatomy and physiology (not the A&P lite class), lifespan development, microbiology, psych, 3 compounding gen med courses, the 3 specialty courses (maternity, psych, and peds), and 3 semesters of pharm, it only seems to exclude a "capstone" clinical at the end. Additionally, my program is respected in the area and has direct linkage to all of the BSN programs in the state.
I wonder why the founders of my program chose the AAS route..
Summit
Critical Crazy
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Many AAS programs have become identical to AS programs in content and requirements. In those cases, they typically also carry the additional accreditation (ACEN) and are functionally identical to AS(N) in academia. Why they don't then change the degree title, I do not know.
FiremanMike
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You had me worried so I double checked, they are ACEN accredited lol
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These kinds of programs, which are basically a 2 year zero-to-hero deal, will be extremely difficult to complete as they will include all the GE courses, prerequisite courses, and the core nursing courses throughout every Semester or Quarter and that load will likely be around 15 units/semester or more. Given that most ADN and BSN programs have the students complete their LDGE, prerequisites, and otherwise meet all grad requirements prior to (or shortly thereafter) entry to a program, ADN and BSN programs typically run 4 years in total. So... you're squeezing 4 years of classes into 2 years. In case you're wondering, the core stuff is, by itself, either full-time or close to full-time units. The programs that aren't full-time by themselves will usually require additional courses that are GE or co-requisites to become full-time.
If I'd had the option, I would have done a BSN program instead of an ADN program because I already had earned a BS degree and all my prereqs were done, so either type of program would have been just 2 years and would have been essentially the same content. If I hadn't earned that Bachelor's, the BSN program would have been easier to get into, but all my prereqs still would have been done... so just 2 years to complete either a BSN or ADN. I could have done an accelerated BSN but that would have been 4 sequential semesters (Fall/Spring/Summer/Fall) and I would have been done in just 16 months. I could also have done an Entry Level Masters and that would have been 2 years of the same ADN/BSN core coursework... all leading up to graduation and writing the NCLEX just like any other RN school grad.
FiremanMike
Just a dude
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There is a respectable accelerated BSN I could have taken but it was like triple the price.
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The ABSN program near me, which is basically the accelerated version of the regular BSN program, both run by the same university, also is nearly triple the cost of the regular program. So... much more debt to "save" me 4 months? No thanks...
Bullets
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Here are examples of 2 year programs in my area
UCNJ Union College of Union County, NJ - Modern Campus Catalog™
onlinecatalog.ucc.edu
For reference, her is the degree granting paramedic program at that same college
Most of the community college nursing programs run like this that i am aware of, they run for 2 calendar years and include a summer class. This is very common in this area and is very competetive for high school grads to get into. You need good grades and good SAT/ACT scores, there is often a waiting list for every program. I know some students will enroll at theses colleges as a GenEd student to take their core requirements like English and transfer over to the Nursing Program when someone drops. These schools also oppeate on a continuous cycle, so new nursing classes start every semester, not just in the fall
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Looking at a couple of those links, it quickly becomes clear why those programs can be completed so quickly... they're AAS, not AS programs. A person graduating from an AAS program who wants to "upgrade" to a BSN will have to complete more units to achieve this goal than one coming from an AS program. One local program has a "General Science pre-nursing" roadmap that takes 5 semesters and results in completing all of the prerequisite courses and all, or nearly all, of the GE requirements to obtain an AS degree. Completing the "usual" coursework for their Nursing program, and it's roadmap, results in sufficient units, nursing education, and GE requirements for being awarded a ASN degree. Given all the prerequisites required, the unit total easily exceeds 90 and this takes around 4.5 years TOTAL to complete.Here are examples of 2 year programs in my area
UCNJ Union College of Union County, NJ - Modern Campus Catalog™
For reference, her is the degree granting paramedic program at that same college
Most of the community college nursing programs run like this that i am aware of, they run for 2 calendar years and include a summer class. This is very common in this area and is very competetive for high school grads to get into. You need good grades and good SAT/ACT scores, there is often a waiting list for every program. I know some students will enroll at theses colleges as a GenEd student to take their core requirements like English and transfer over to the Nursing Program when someone drops. These schools also oppeate on a continuous cycle, so new nursing classes start every semester, not just in the fall
Just for giggles, so to speak, the same institution's Paramedic AS program requires 60 units and takes approximately 5 semesters to complete. What's the difference? Simple: prerequisites that the nursing program requires vs what the Paramedic program requires. If PM students were required to complete the same prerequisites that the RN students did, the PM unit total would be around 80-90. That institution's PM program basically results in being able to take the NRP exam at the end of the 3rd semester in the program (and students earn a certificate of completion at that time) and if the student is able to continue for another 2 semesters, they're eligible to earn the AS degree in Paramedicine. If a student did the allied health/RN prerequisites and then did the PM course, they'd be eligible for a degree upon completing the PM course and would be far better educated than someone that followed the PM AS degree roadmap.
CCCSD
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Thanks.Here are examples of 2 year programs in my area
UCNJ Union College of Union County, NJ - Modern Campus Catalog™
For reference, her is the degree granting paramedic program at that same college
Most of the community college nursing programs run like this that i am aware of, they run for 2 calendar years and include a summer class. This is very common in this area and is very competetive for high school grads to get into. You need good grades and good SAT/ACT scores, there is often a waiting list for every program. I know some students will enroll at theses colleges as a GenEd student to take their core requirements like English and transfer over to the Nursing Program when someone drops. These schools also oppeate on a continuous cycle, so new nursing classes start every semester, not just in the fall
Nothing there shows that it’s a dead stop two years guaranteed start to finish. There are still prerequisites to complete, then start the school…IF you get in. So to claim that you can graduate from HS. Start in the Fall and be done in two years isn’t quite accurate for the majority.