EMT Oath- My problem

Status
Not open for further replies.

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,658
2,245
113
Each time we would treat it as an important, if not scare events with family, friends, local officials and even media. We were each time explained it's ancient tradition dated to Romans,

I get what you are saying here, but there are some of us who could care less about a tradition going back to the Romans or to anyone. Romans had a great tradition of crucifying people too...why stop now? :) I just personally do not have a lot of care for tradition as in my own experiences I have found tradition to be an extremely limiting/restricting factor in most organizations and professions including our own little baby EMS one. Tradition begets "we have always done it that way" or "it works that way so do not look for or try anything else"....and I know we are talking an oath here, but instilling that mindset from the beginning, to me is poor form.

and to take pride in our achievements and embrace our new identity. It did installed self-confidence in many of us

Professing an oath, acquiring a badge, a stethoscope, etc...none of those items were ever needed or should be needed to instill self-confidence. Watch the Disney classic Dumbo if you need a refresher.

***NEW IDENTITY??? I have great concern with this statement and the fact a newcomer is declaring this. EMS, Paramedic, EMT, this is NOT my identity. It is what I do, it is NOT who I am. I do strongly feel this is another horrible mindset within our profession. It took me many years and life experience to gain this insight and realize it is a bad one for us generally speaking.


So I am shocked here because it's my first time encounter people viewing such occasions so negativity.

Not negative, exposing the other side of the coin. It is wholly unnecessary and not the direction we should be focusing on.

I simply think the completion of a two year paramedic degree and licensing should be treat as a life event, a symbol of one's entering a career of public service, something students can take pride in. Not just another paper, routine duty and "non-sense".

It is a very proud accomplishment, absolutely. Do we need pomp and circumstance to revel in it....oh wait, we get that when we collect the degree and walk the stage. Ummm....do we need to go above and beyond that?
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,658
2,245
113
Missed the edit cut off time, had a secondary thought on instilling confidence...

*A solid foundation in education and a lengthy, properly conducted and supervised clinical experience would instill confidence, much like our other allied healthcare professionals.
 

TimRaven

Forum Crew Member
87
13
8
I thought about this topic again and talked to older medic friends, think I got why my view is very different here:
The EMS education I had was considered an atypical one, all the schools I went to since EMR days and current P-school were considered much higher standard than most, and all ran by generally ex-military faculties.
For example, my EMT school had a PA education director with former Army 18D background (who actually teach some classes himself), and current my medic program is a degree program, run by flight medics and CCRN, again ex-military, with student entry requirement of at least 1 year college health science education or 3 years ALS experience.

I just never experienced classes taught by burnt out old guys or NREMT cram class, thus reflecting my varied value on previous posts.
 

Grandmal4me

Forum Ride Along
4
0
1
This is an old post but I will still reply... as someone who came up as every level of EMT I will first say no one has nor ever mentioned an Oath. Yet I find the idea an appropriate thought. To your objections I say: Get over it and yourself! I've treated over 5,000 patients in my time. You will not have the choice of race religion nor creed. So if you are that sensitive you have probably since bailed out of my service. If not, then I expect you have grown up or about to quit.

I mean this in the most adult and kind manner possible. But you can't hope to enter a career field of such variance in duty and be so sensitive.

Best of luck!
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,658
2,245
113
LOL...only 5K??? Still a newbie eh?

And I do think you greatly missed the point of the "objectors".
 

Jim37F

Forum Deputy Chief
3,804
2,354
113
In before the inevitable lock, for the somewhat impressive 2nd resuscitation of a dead thread.

But yeah, the OPs oath is stupid. And I am not an atheist lol. Wonder if @WickedGood is still around to let us know how it all shook out, 8 years later? (Not gonna hold my breath on that one though).

Interesting to see some familiar names posting, at least a couple I recognize, but only @akflightmedic still a regular haha
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
5,476
1,561
113
Just dipping my toe into this one.... last night my captain (Baptist) and me (Jewish) were discussing religion for about 2 hours. Not saying one was better than the other, but just discussing how we have so many similarities and soooo many differences. Just learning about each other from a different perspective.

5 hours later, we were dispatched for a fire alarm at one of the churches in our first due. nothing showing on arrival, but when we opened the door, had a decent smoke condition with no known cause, upgrading the assignment to a structure fire. an hour or so later, we found the source and were about to clear, and the pastor asked if we had any objections to him saying a prayer for us. I said no, took off my helmet, and he did his thing. Could I have objected on religious grounds? probably, but why? it made the public feel better, I had no feelings about it one way or the other, so is that really a hill I wanted to fight on? Definitely not worth it.

BTW, last I checked, doctors take an oath, cops take an oath, firefighters take an oath, lawyers take an oath, elected officials take an oath... even the boy scouts take an oath. is the objection with this particular oath, or oaths in general? because they seem to be pretty common in other industries.
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
4,306
3,144
113
Don't mind me, I'm just in before the lock.
 

Grandmal4me

Forum Ride Along
4
0
1
You very well state the thoughts rattling around in my old brain. Cool! Haha

BTW, after nearly 10 years in EMS (started at 16) I had a "midlife crisis" and served several years in the military in a flying combat role, but kept my skills up teaching on the side. Had to take an oath for that, & again every time I re-upped. Now I'm retired and dragged back into volunteer EMS by my firefighter daughter. Didn't know how much I missed it.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,658
2,245
113
In before the inevitable lock, for the somewhat impressive 2nd resuscitation of a dead thread.

But yeah, the OPs oath is stupid. And I am not an atheist lol. Wonder if @WickedGood is still around to let us know how it all shook out, 8 years later? (Not gonna hold my breath on that one though).

Interesting to see some familiar names posting, at least a couple I recognize, but only @akflightmedic still a regular haha
LOL....I joined this site in 2005. I was a regular on another site and there was some major drama, a big upheaval, all kinds of silliness. Anyways, here I have remained, mostly because the owner has not screwed with the format, not tried to do the latest and greatest, has just kept it simple and clean.
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,658
2,245
113
And yes, oaths are dumb. I did not take an oath as a Firefighter, a Medic, or as a RN. I did not take an oath in several other side jobs/careers I have ventured into. I do not even pledge allegiance to the flag...because if my country is fundamentally wrong, and I cannot change it, then I certainly will not give it my undying support. Basically, I am a true patriot in the sense I defend my freedom to dissent if needed. :)

How come plumbers, carpernters, general contractors, trashmen, dog catchers, cooks, servers, etc...how come they do not take an oath? What is it about front line careers where we feel this need to project better than thou, have oaths, and capitalize on the whole martyrdom thing?
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
5,476
1,561
113
How come plumbers, carpernters, general contractors, trashmen, dog catchers, cooks, servers, etc...how come they do not take an oath? What is it about front line careers where we feel this need to project better than thou, have oaths, and capitalize on the whole martyrdom thing?
That's a good question... why have an oath at all? well, according to https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-23514-1_69-1
Professional oaths are arguably the oldest form of ethics management, going back at least as far as to Hippocrates of Kos (c. 400 BCE). They are promises made during public ceremonies that exhort oath-takers to treat the oath’s beneficiaries in ways consistent with professional standards. They obtain their justification primarily from the social function of the profession. Their binding force and moral weight are generally larger than those of mere promises, from which they can be distinguished on account of their satisfying a number of additional formal and substantive conditions. Professional oaths, if carefully designed, may foster professionalism, facilitate moral deliberation, and enhance compliance with professional standards.
and from https://www.dyess.af.mil/News/Commentaries/Display/Article/813343/why-take-an-oath/
So, what is an oath? An oath is a solemn promise, often invoking a divine witness, regarding one's future action or behavior. This is the reason nearly all professions have oaths; they use these words as a binding contract to hold them accountable for their ethical actions, behaviors, and ... ultimately, their decisions.
I'm not saying they are good or bad, or belong in EMS... but other professions do seem to use them. maybe they are ahead of the curve?
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
3,658
2,245
113
Why do other professions NOT use them?
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
Community Leader
10,058
840
113
Threads get locked for useless bumps, not for productive conversations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top