EMT Oath- My problem

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Oaths and ethical standards are related, but are not the same things, obviously. An oath without consequences of violating it is ceremony, and in this day and age the only consequence free ceremony folks are remotely tolerant of is the Super Bowl half time show.

You take an oath when you get married, give a deposition or are sworn in to some office. The consequences for violating those oaths are real (or can be, were someone to press the issue).

I will say that at least in the OP, the oath in question includes a curse against the taker if he violates the oath. There's that...

Every profession ought to have ethical standards, but real ones, vetted by an actual ethicist, not a list of politically validating statements that serve as some kind of testimony to the nobility of the folks that do some job.
 
Is the implication that I lack ethics? Since I do not support or believe in meaningless oaths yet still perform competently with a high sense of integrity and empathy...am I not capable of that now since I am oathless and (ethic-less)? :)
 
The only oath I ever took was when I was appointed Fire Dispatcher for a local fire department in Orange County, CA. The chief swore me to "Uphold the standards of my position and give 110% to the people of the city." Simple, made up on the spot most likely. Then he pinned the badge on my uniform shirt and I was proud to serve and held that oath as something worth living up to. In reality, I would have given my life to the citizens if need be. In my career as an EMT for a private ambulance service, I was asked by a SWAT team leader to assist in a workplace shooting at the hospital where the shooter was still believed to be in the building. The supervisor said, "Look, I know you guys aren't sworn personnel, but they need your help and equipment on the 2nd floor. You can leave right now, no harm no foul." I committed myself and my partner and said, "Yes." Oath or no oath, I feel we owe it to the public to give all we have to the job. Like cops have the motto, "To protect and serve" on their units, I believe the ambulance motto should read, "That others may live." The motto is from the military rescue services, but I think it says everything about the ultimate responsibility to the public EMS has, and should be sworn to.
 
CarSevenFour said:
The only oath I ever took was when I was appointed Fire Dispatcher for a local fire department in Orange County, CA. The chief swore me to "Uphold the standards of my position and give 110% to the people of the city." Simple, made up on the spot most likely. Then he pinned the badge on my uniform shirt and I was proud to serve and held that oath as something worth living up to. In reality, I would have given my life to the citizens if need be. In my career as an EMT for a private ambulance service, I was asked by a SWAT team leader to assist in a workplace shooting at the hospital where the shooter was still believed to be in the building. The supervisor said, "Look, I know you guys aren't sworn personnel, but they need your help and equipment on the 2nd floor. You can leave right now, no harm no foul." I committed myself and my partner and said, "Yes." Oath or no oath, I feel we owe it to the public to give all we have to the job. Like cops have the motto, "To protect and serve" on their units, I believe the ambulance motto should read, "That others may live." The motto is from the military rescue services, but I think it says everything about the ultimate responsibility to the public EMS has, and should be sworn to.
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Three bold points for you to review:

1. Ummm NO!!! As a routine Paramedic, I will NEVER EVER be willing to give my life to anyone who calls. EVER! My children and GF deserve to have me around for a few more years. Our job is already risky enough, I will not intentionally risk or give my life for a citizen from a 911 call.

2. YOU are sofa king dangerous with this statement. If you EVER try to commit me to an unsafe scene that clearly you were not qualified or trained to be in, you are gonna be rushing to save that life all by yourself, and then when you get done I am going to kick your astroid.

3. NO! You flippantly throwing that phrase around and willy nilly wish to "borrow" it, means you have absolutely zero clue what that phrase means. It is disrespectful for you to even say you would want to take it for EMS.

And PLEASE stop all the fooking heroics and martyrdom BS. This entire post is ridiculous and NOT what we need in Professional EMS.
 
CarSevenFour said:
The only oath I ever took was when I was appointed Fire Dispatcher for a local fire department in Orange County, CA. The chief swore me to "Uphold the standards of my position and give 110% to the people of the city." Simple, made up on the spot most likely. Then he pinned the badge on my uniform shirt and I was proud to serve and held that oath as something worth living up to. In reality, I would have given my life to the citizens if need be. In my career as an EMT for a private ambulance service, I was asked by a SWAT team leader to assist in a workplace shooting at the hospital where the shooter was still believed to be in the building. The supervisor said, "Look, I know you guys aren't sworn personnel, but they need your help and equipment on the 2nd floor. You can leave right now, no harm no foul." I committed myself and my partner and said, "Yes." Oath or no oath, I feel we owe it to the public to give all we have to the job. Like cops have the motto, "To protect and serve" on their units, I believe the ambulance motto should read, "That others may live." The motto is from the military rescue services, but I think it says everything about the ultimate responsibility to the public EMS has, and should be sworn to.
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So nobody at the hospital was capable of dealing with some bullet holes?
 
No man! In the heat of the battle, a Swat Team leader had no other option other than granting a field promotion to two untrained civilians who were never evacuated or were crazily allowed to enter the active shooter scene.
 
Good points...

Every EMT or military first aid class I ever taught started with the question:
"Who is the most important person on the scene of any rescue? Answer: point to yourself and say I AM because if I go down I can't help my patient, and who the heck is gonna help me!?"
 
CarSevenFour said:
The only oath I ever took was when I was appointed Fire Dispatcher for a local fire department in Orange County, CA. The chief swore me to "Uphold the standards of my position and give 110% to the people of the city." Simple, made up on the spot most likely. Then he pinned the badge on my uniform shirt and I was proud to serve and held that oath as something worth living up to. In reality, I would have given my life to the citizens if need be. In my career as an EMT for a private ambulance service, I was asked by a SWAT team leader to assist in a workplace shooting at the hospital where the shooter was still believed to be in the building. The supervisor said, "Look, I know you guys aren't sworn personnel, but they need your help and equipment on the 2nd floor. You can leave right now, no harm no foul." I committed myself and my partner and said, "Yes." Oath or no oath, I feel we owe it to the public to give all we have to the job. Like cops have the motto, "To protect and serve" on their units, I believe the ambulance motto should read, "That others may live." The motto is from the military rescue services, but I think it says everything about the ultimate responsibility to the public EMS has, and should be sworn to.
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This is the most OC private EMT post ever.
 
The only oath I took was when I started my job as a Census worker. I had to swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to protect her from all enemies domestic and abroad. Or however it goes. Had to raise my right hand and everything. Super weird thing especially for a temp job.
 
Fezman92 said:
The only oath I took was when I started my job as a Census worker. I had to swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to protect her from all enemies domestic and abroad. Or however it goes. Had to raise my right hand and everything. Super weird thing especially for a temp job.
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And by adding illegals to the census, you violated that oath...(not you specifically).🤣
 
E tank said:
Every profession ought to have ethical standards, but real ones, vetted by an actual ethicist, not a list of politically validating statements that serve as some kind of testimony to the nobility of the folks that do some job.
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"Ethical standards are purely subjective, based upon the dignity of the person, their self respect, and their moral fiber." -A paraphrased assessment of Pico della Mirandola's Oration on the Dignity of Man.
I'd follow that up with, "There remain some truths too ephemeral to be captured in the cold pages of a court transcript" Irving R. Kaufman
 
Only Oath I ever took was to start working this job as a paramedic, but not because I am working as a paramedic, but because I am working for the Federal Government.
 
johnrsemt said:
Only Oath I ever took was to start working this job as a paramedic, but not because I am working as a paramedic, but because I am working for the Federal Government.
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So we took the same oath?
 
RedBlanketRunner said:
"Ethical standards are purely subjective, based upon the dignity of the person, their self respect, and their moral fiber." -A paraphrased assessment of Pico della Mirandola's Oration on the Dignity of Man.
I'd follow that up with, "There remain some truths too ephemeral to be captured in the cold pages of a court transcript" Irving R. Kaufman
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Nah...I don't buy that BS...that's what you'd call the "dictatorship of relativism" and requires you to respect Charles Manson's ethics as much as, say, the American Medical Association's. There is right and there is wrong. You could argue against that, but you'd just be demonstrating you believe that to be true.
 
@E tank I would very much prefer to agree with you there. But an irreducible conundrum remains.. For example, under certain circumstances a person could justify the deliberate premeditated death of another as in a greater good scenario, while others will maintain that such an act can never be justified in a truly civilized society.
Then the contention comes up that we aren't a truly civilized society which shifts the paradigm towards how low can we go and get away with it?
 
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E tank said:
Nah...I don't buy that BS...that's what you'd call the "dictatorship of relativism" and requires you to respect Charles Manson's ethics as much as, say, the American Medical Association's. There is right and there is wrong. You could argue against that, but you'd just be demonstrating you believe that to be true.
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Right and wrong are not absolutes and viewpoints of what is right or wrong have changed over time. They've even changed since the time of Manson. They're still changing.
 
ffemt8978 said:
Right and wrong are not absolutes and viewpoints of what is right or wrong have changed over time. They've even changed since the time of Manson. They're still changing.
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Is that statement right or wrong?
 
RedBlanketRunner said:
@E tank I would very much prefer to agree with you there. But an irreducible conundrum remains.. For example, under certain circumstances a person could justify the deliberate premeditated death of another as in a greater good scenario, while others will maintain that such an act can never be justified in a truly civilized society.
Then the contention comes up that we aren't a truly civilized society which shifts the paradigm towards how low can we go and get away with it?
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You're confusing an opinion with truth.
 
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