# Gasoline powered Ford E-450



## i5adam8 (Jun 27, 2011)

I just wanted to get some feedback on the newer model Ford Gasoline E-450 Ambulances vs the diesel units. I have heard some pros and cons about the gas engines but wanted to get some feedback on here from some folks that have had some experience with them. Our service is supposed to purchase one in the next several months.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jun 27, 2011)

You'll get about 4 miles to the gallon. Just sayin. 

There is an FD around here that got them simply cause the chief doesn't like diesels. Well, they apparently HATE the fuel bills. I ran into a crew once at the hospital in the big city and I asked what milage it got. They said about 4 city. Maybe 6 highway, with a tailwind.


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## socalmedic (Jun 27, 2011)

yea the mileage sucks. my last service for 7.88 combined mileage for the gas and 10.1 for the diesels so they work out to be almost the same price when you figure price per mile. this includes posting/idling.

the gas engines are VERY quiet and do not affect the LP12 baseline like the diesels do, something about electric current IDK. they are smoother shifting and provide GREAT power. i would say the gas engines are faster and more powerfull than the diesels.

the cons are that if you are posting the engine cowl (interior space) gets really hot, like burn your leg hot and this really needs to be addressed by fleet with better insulation. the AC at idle sucks, you have to kick it to high idle (3k-3.5k RPM) to get the ambulance cool, which means that when at the hospital it sounds like your ambulance is about to grow wings and take off.

all in all I like the new gas engines, but have to question how long they will last with the way we all drive. I doubt there will be many 200k ambulances with the gas v10.


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## AmeriMedic21 (Jun 27, 2011)

Our service has 3 e450's that are diesel and they are awesome! the nice thing about diesels are that they idle and run at a really low RPM, which will save a little on the price of fuel


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## b2dragun (Jul 4, 2011)

The MPG sucks, around 6mpg.  From the crew side of it I think they have better acceleration, much quieter, better AC, the cab is designed better.  We beat our rigs up pretty good and they handle it.  Can't speak to longevity but so far so good


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## shfd739 (Jul 4, 2011)

I would think those gas E450s get better mileage than that...

I still miss the gas engine Chevys we had from '02 to '07. Ours were 6.0V8 3500s with generator powered modules. We got roughly 9.5 mpg during a 12 hour shift which was a mix of idling, highway and in town driving. That was hand calculated and not factoring out the 4-8 gallons the generator used since it was plumbed off the main chassis tanks. The positives were that they were quiet, fuel usage compared to the Duramaxes was a wash when diesel prices went up and stayed up, and they were cheaper to run after factoring in repairs.

Even with the lower mileage I wont be surprised to the gas E-series cheaper overall to operate. Those V10s should easily make 200k+ with normal maintenance.


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## Tigger (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm usually in a 2010 E350 gasser Type II at work and by my partner's and my calculations the truck never gets more than 7.5 mpg. The day it got that included a fair bit of highway driving, a shift that stays in the city usually nets something closer to 6mpg.

As noted, the engine tunnel in the cab gets quite hot, but they are much quieter.


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## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

b2dragun said:


> The MPG sucks, around 6mpg.  From the crew side of it I think they have better acceleration, much quieter, better AC, the cab is designed better.  We beat our rigs up pretty good and they handle it.  Can't speak to longevity but so far so good



We just got four new E-450 gas chassies, replacing the diesels about 2 a year. I agree with the above, but honestly the diesels didn't get much better mpg... especially the 6.0 powerstrokes. Theyre quiet, accelerate nicely, and are pretty comfortable. I can't imagine he gas will last as long as diesel, but they sure are nice while theyre new.


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## Too Old To Work (Jul 29, 2011)

I wasn't aware that Ford was back to offering gasoline engines for ambulance conversion. Since I was around when they stopped doing that, I remember the reasons and wonder how they've fixed them. Or if they've fixed them.

They were fast as hell, but that wasn't necessarily an advantage as they didn't stop for crap. They also ran hot as hades, caught fire too often, and got about 4 mpg. Diesel is much better for so many reasons, I don't see us ever going back.


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## usalsfyre (Jul 29, 2011)

Too Old To Work said:


> I wasn't aware that Ford was back to offering gasoline engines for ambulance conversion. Since I was around when they stopped doing that, I remember the reasons and wonder how they've fixed them. Or if they've fixed them.
> 
> They were fast as hell, but that wasn't necessarily an advantage as they didn't stop for crap. They also ran hot as hades, caught fire too often, and got about 4 mpg. Diesel is much better for so many reasons, I don't see us ever going back.



After the 6.0 debacle Ford won't even let you put a diesel in an ambulance package anymore.


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## ArcticKat (Jul 29, 2011)

We've got a 2009 6.0 with no problems.  It's too bad we can't get them any more.


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## usalsfyre (Jul 29, 2011)

ArcticKat said:


> We've got a 2009 6.0 with no problems.  It's too bad we can't get them any more.



Your in the minority. My truck is an '05 6.0 that's on it's third motor in 300k.


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## Aidey (Jul 29, 2011)

The fuel economy does suck. They are significantly quieter, even in high idle which is really nice. Since we do SSM not listening to a diesel all night is a huge benefit. I haven't noticed increased mechanical problems, but ours is still pretty new.


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## shfd739 (Jul 29, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> After the 6.0 debacle Ford won't even let you put a diesel in an ambulance package anymore.



It isn't so much the 6.0 issues as the newer 6.4 and 6.7 motors with the new emission parts won't fit the van chassis. There isn't enough room under hood and under the dog house. That's why when the 6.4 came out in '08 it wasn't put in the vans. 


Sent from my electronic overbearing life controller


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## KingCountyMedic (Sep 5, 2011)

Looks like we are going with the gas Ford as well. If they have half as many problems as these last Ford E450 D's had we will be ahead of the game! I believe our last batch of new rigs (8) were only all in service at once 60% of the time, terrible motor.


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## Tigger (Sep 5, 2011)

KingCountyMedic said:


> Looks like we are going with the gas Ford as well. If they have half as many problems as these last Ford E450 D's had we will be ahead of the game! I believe our last batch of new rigs (8) were only all in service at once 60% of the time, terrible motor.



To the best of my knowledge it is now impossible to get a diesel in a Ford E-Series. If you want a Type III ambulance with a diesel I think the only options are now the GMC/Chevy G4500 or the Mercedes Sprinter cab/chassis.


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## shfd739 (Sep 5, 2011)

Tigger said:


> To the best of my knowledge it is now impossible to get a diesel in a Ford E-Series. If you want a Type III ambulance with a diesel I think the only options are now the GMC/Chevy G4500 or the Mercedes Sprinter cab/chassis.



You're right. The Duramaxes are decent motors when maintained properly. The Sprinters motor wise are decent as well. I think the problems we've had is due to how hard we run them. I:E anything will have issues when running 23 out of 24 hours in 100+ degree heat. I still love the Sprinter cabs though. 


Sent from my electronic overbearing life controller


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## IRIDEZX6R (Sep 8, 2011)

I drive a brand new, a couple of them actually. They're have alot of power, super nice to drive. But like everybody else says... MPG SUCKKKSSSS. I'm ALWAYS at the gas station! Seems like every two or three calls I'm filling up.


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## Handsome Robb (Sep 8, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> . I agree with the above, but honestly the diesels didn't get much better mpg...



Diesel also burns cleaner than gas does, just a thought.

/Tahoe hippiness


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## KingCountyMedic (Sep 8, 2011)

So to those of you that have said you are always gassing up, are you posting with the motor running all day? We stay in stations in between calls and often turn the motor off on scene. Thanks.


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## Handsome Robb (Sep 8, 2011)

They run the whole time. 

Mechanics were worried about the engine vapor-locking and not starting up right away so they stay running. Supposed to use the high idle when parked but those Ford 6.0s are loud!

Never been on a rig that had to fuel mid shift but I'm sure it happens. Always fill them on the way back to the garage at the end of shift.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Sep 9, 2011)

Company policy is to never turn the rig off on scene. First off, its a diesel, so it is better to keep it idling than to start and stop all the time. Second, you never know when you will shut it down and not be able to start it. 

Rob,

The 6.7s are sooooo nice and quiet.  Sorry, have to rub it in. :rofl:


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## ArcticKat (Sep 9, 2011)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> First off, its a diesel, so it is better to keep it idling than to start and stop all the time.



I agree with the first part and the last part, but that chewy center has me wondering, we leave ours on too, but what reason does the Brass give that makes it better?  

Here's some light reading for you...

http://busbuilding.com/bus-conversion/diesel-engine-idling-from-an-authority-detroit-diesel/


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## lightsandsirens5 (Sep 9, 2011)

ArcticKat said:


> I agree with the first part and the last part, but that chewy center has me wondering, we leave ours on too, but what reason does the Brass give that makes it better?
> 
> Here's some light reading for you...
> 
> http://busbuilding.com/bus-conversion/diesel-engine-idling-from-an-authority-detroit-diesel/



I should have clarified, I was talking high idle. Somewhere north of 1-1.5k rpms. 

My single biggest reason to leave it on though is how it reduces the chances of having a dead rig on scene. It doesnt matter how many lights I forget to turn off in the box, ad long as it's running, it'll keep running.


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## VCEMT (Sep 10, 2011)

They run nice, as long as you don't put them through the abuse that diesel engines are built for. Diesels are built to idle, that's why generators run on diesel.


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## ArcticKat (Sep 10, 2011)

VCEMT said:


> They run nice, as long as you don't put them through the abuse that diesel engines are built for. Diesels are built to idle, that's why generators run on diesel.



Diesel generators are built to idle, diesel engines in vehicles...not so much.


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## VCEMT (Sep 11, 2011)

The maintenance for diesel is less expensive. Gas engines have smaller oil pans and we burn a quart each day. Of the 9 or so in the county, 6 have blown and required a new block. The companies are ordering more as the frontline diesels reach the 200k mark.


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