# Locking Ambulances



## 94H (Jul 27, 2011)

So how many of you lock your bus whenever you leave it? 

Were supposed to now, but it kind of seems like a bad idea seeing as how we have 1 key for the box. I feel like systems which lock the bus everytime they leave it have keys for both crew members. Am I right?


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## adamjh3 (Jul 27, 2011)

Every time... because I have about 2 grand worth of stuff in my backpack.


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## bigbaldguy (Jul 27, 2011)

We're supposed to every time and generally do. Oddly there seems to be no requirement that we lock the exterior compartments.


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## abckidsmom (Jul 27, 2011)

We typically don't.  Even when I worked in a city, we didn't.  Now I'm in Podunk, Nowhereville, and we really, really don't.


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## truetiger (Jul 27, 2011)

We don't either. Never been an issue.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 28, 2011)

We have had ambulances stolen and stuff from them stolen. So we have to lock the ambulance every time we are not in it. We are given 2 sets of keys. 1 set is always in the ambulance because the ambulance always has to be running during our shift. And the EMT keeps the 2nd pair clipped to his belt loop. There is also a spare (hide a key) on the ambulance.


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## truetiger (Jul 28, 2011)

You all don't have secure idle?


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 28, 2011)

truetiger said:


> You all don't have secure idle?



Never heard of that so I'm going to say no...


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## truetiger (Jul 28, 2011)

It's a little red button by the ignition. Once you've parked just apply the break, hold the button and then remove the keys. The rig will continue to idle.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 28, 2011)

Nope we dont have that.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 28, 2011)

All of the trucks where I am going to school have a switch hidden on the outside of the rig to unlock it, as well as a kill switch that needs to be depressed anytime you take the truck out of park.

They are locked 95% of the time, and we leave them idling.


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## Ewok Jerky (Jul 28, 2011)

Rig is always locked. It is company policy, but my primary motivation is my personal gear that I leave in there.  We do keep the outside  compartments locked too. We carry two sets of keys and the emt gets a fob.

Btw, I always thought the point of locking the rig (at least here) was to provide a second key for securing narcs, the first being the narc box. Is that even a requirement? Two locks for narcs?


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## truetiger (Jul 28, 2011)

I don't believe so, but then again you're in California....so who knows.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 28, 2011)

Double lock here. Locked narc box inside of a safe with a numerical code that only the medic has the key and the combination.


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## truetiger (Jul 28, 2011)

Lol oops, ya we have locked box locked inside the safe. But I don't believe its a requirement to lock your rig.


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## dixie_flatline (Jul 28, 2011)

Yeah... none of our outside cabinets are locked.  And considering the accessibility of the one, if you were small/bendy enough, you could probably worm your way into the back through that even if the doors were locked.

We used to (and actually many still do) leave the keys in the ambo at all times - parked in front of a patient's house, in the bay at the ER, etc.  A few months ago (maybe a year now), someone got in the driver's seat (at the _hospital_) and apparently was about to drive off when the EMT cleaning up in the back spoke up and politely inquired WTF the person thought they were doing.  Since then, a memo went out requiring keys to be removed whenever a crew isn't with the unit (not sure if it also specifies locking though).  I'm sure if I worked in Baltimore City it would be a different story.

One key per ambo, stays with the driver if they ever choose to remove it from the ignition. I don't think we have anything called "Secure Idle" although I'm going to go hunt for this now.  We do have the hidden unlock button on most of our apparatus though.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 28, 2011)

beano said:


> Rig is always locked. It is company policy, but my primary motivation is my personal gear that I leave in there.  We do keep the outside  compartments locked too. We carry two sets of keys and the emt gets a fob.
> 
> Btw, I always thought the point of locking the rig (at least here) was to provide a second key for securing narcs, the first being the narc box. Is that even a requirement? Two locks for narcs?



Does the narcs inside a plastic container (no lock) and in the medics pocket count as the requirement? What if the medic is inside of a locked unit? :huh:


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## truetiger (Jul 28, 2011)

I believe it is acceptable to check out the narc's and carry them on one's person. Personally, I would never work anywhere that had that policy.


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## guttruck (Jul 28, 2011)

Well your med box should be locked and everything has a serial number on it these days so it makes if extremely hard to pawn an AED and such. The only time a bus has ever got jacked around here is actually from the bay. Now the SOG is to "lock" your bus when out of service, but when in service not to. In my opinion its up the crew.


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## mommak90 (Jul 28, 2011)

we leave our units running everywhere and unlocked. The only time anythings happened would be at the hospital when another unit would move ours down the road, but we would always mess with them and get them back for it


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## katgrl2003 (Jul 28, 2011)

Our trucks stay running with all doors unlocked unless at station or a hospital, and then they are off with the keys in the ignition. If someone wants our truck that bad, they can have it! We have a switch that allows us to take the key out and leave the truck running, but it's rarely used. We leave the keys in the ignition at the hospitals because just about everyone will move trucks to let others in the bays.


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## shfd739 (Jul 28, 2011)

We lock our units anytime is it unattended. Our type 1 cab doors and module doors are all keyed alike and everyone is given a set of keys during orientation. Ignition keys stay in the trucks. Our Sprinters have hidden unlock buttons on the outside to get in it and the ignition keys always stay in those as well. 


Sent from my electronic overbearing life controller


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## medicdan (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm semi-dumbfounded and amazed so many posted their company or service's security policies or flagrant disregard for security so publicly. For many users here, its fairly easy for other forum members to identify services based on previous posts. 

The interwebz never cease to amaze me. 

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk


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## TroyOck (Jul 28, 2011)

(still learning) Ive been instructed ALWAYS do so.

seems like tic-tac policy, but aw well.


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## Anjel (Jul 28, 2011)

Always leave ours running and always unlocked. We do have.the.secure idle thing in some trucks but no one uses it or knows what it does. Lol


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## Sasha (Jul 28, 2011)

Always locked but we have three keys per truck. I have too much crap in there to leave it unlocked. Plus there is a hide a key in a hole under the truck.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## medicdan (Jul 28, 2011)

[Sarcasm]

My service always leaves it's vehicles unlocked, on and with all doors wide open. It's company policy to leave the narc box unlocked and open on the bench seat at all times, and if we perchance lock a key in the truck, there's a switch that unlocks all the doors under the left rear bumper, a remote start button in the grill and the medic's personal laptop in a bag in the front seat at all times. 
It's just what we have to do these days for security... These measures are a company secret... so don't tell anyone. 
Oh, yeah, and you can always find our trucks on the corner of Main St and Hospital Ave in my hometown.

[/Sarcasm]


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## adamjh3 (Jul 28, 2011)

emt.dan said:


> [Sarcasm]
> 
> My service always leaves it's vehicles unlocked, on and with all doors wide open. It's company policy to leave the narc box unlocked and open on the bench seat at all times, and if we perchance lock a key in the truck, there's a switch that unlocks all the doors under the left rear bumper, a remote start button in the grill and the medic's personal laptop in a bag in the front seat at all times.
> It's just what we have to do these days for security... These measures are a company secret... so don't tell anyone.
> ...



Eh... if someone wants something bad enough, they'll take it, or try to anyway, regardless of what they've read. However, it does boggle my mind that it seems SOP is to leave rigs unlocked.


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## medicdan (Jul 28, 2011)

Do you know how many news reports there have been of ambulances that have been "hijacked" or run into a ditch by a bystander recently? It's no longer just a pattern. Even if you don't care whether your truck is crashed, I bet your employer does. When you begin your shift, the narcs are signed out in the medic's name, and they are responsible for their safekeeping. 
Although it's true if a criminal wants something bad enough they'll try, simply locking your truck makes it much harder for anyone to take your stuff...

I was just trying to point out how much information some posters on this topic have put in their replies. It's almost like an _ invitation _ for trucks and meds to disappear.


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## adamjh3 (Jul 28, 2011)

emt.dan said:


> Do you know how many news reports there have been of ambulances that have been "hijacked" or run into a ditch by a bystander recently? It's no longer just a pattern. Even if you don't care whether your truck is crashed, I bet your employer does. When you begin your shift, the narcs are signed out in the medic's name, and they are responsible for their safekeeping.
> Although it's true if a criminal wants something bad enough they'll try, simply locking your truck makes it much harder for anyone to take your stuff...
> 
> I was just trying to point out how much information some posters on this topic have put in their replies. It's almost like an _ invitation _ for trucks and meds to disappear.



Naw, I agree mostly. Talk to my crews and you'll find out I'm very big on SA and very crew-safety oriented. Keeping your :censored::censored::censored::censored: safe is an extension of that. Shoot, when I was in EMT school my teacher had his rig jacked out of a parking lot around here (if you'll remember San Diego Medic 12) so I know it can and will happen. That's why I'm surprised how many just leave their rigs unlocked, especially the ones who leave it running and unlocked. 

BUT, if an employer expects employees to leave the rig running during shift, only provides one key, and doesn't have a secure idle built into the rig, one can't really call the employees careless.


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## AJ Hidell (Jul 28, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Always locked but we have three keys per truck. I have too much crap in there to leave it unlocked.


Exactly.  Screw the drugs.  My wallet and laptop are in there!


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## StickySideDown (Jul 28, 2011)

When I am running on the ambulance , the rig is locked 100% of the time. Our rigs have a secure idle, so we leave the ambulance running while at the call location, only time the ambulance is turned off is at the hospital and the station. 

All of our outside compartments are locked as well 100% of the time. One of the crew members (the driver) keeps the keys with them, if the other EMT needs to get in he can take the keys, or if a third or extra needs to get in they can borrow the keys.


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## Sasha (Jul 28, 2011)

exactly. No skin off my nose if the company loses money, however I don't have the money just sitting around to replace my nookcolor.


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## bstone (Jul 29, 2011)

Our ambos are always locked. 2 sets of keys and another key that always stays in the ignition cylinder. Each EMT gets a key and you are 100% required to lock the bus.


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## MrBrown (Jul 29, 2011)

We don't lock our ambulances, never have

The Ambulance Officer who is driving has the keys on them and there is nothing of any resale value in the ambulance anyway


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Jul 29, 2011)

It's interesting to see the variety of the SOG's on this issue!

We are required to keep narcs double locked by the pharm board.  There is a combo lock on the cabinet, and a key on the actual box.  (The whole something you know and something you have security mentality).  The narcs are not kept with the other drugs so if you take our drug box, all you get are the non-narcs.

The rigs where I work are never locked-it makes it too hard for other departments to move your vehicles if you're tied up doing something else.  At the hospitals they have security who sit at the doors to the ambulance entrances in most places.

Private ambulance is a different story--they usually lock their rigs after one got stolen last year.  It makes it impossible to move them when they double park at the hospitals so the cops are issuing them citations.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 29, 2011)

emt.dan said:


> Do you know how many news reports there have been of ambulances that have been "hijacked" or run into a ditch by a bystander recently? It's no longer just a pattern. Even if you don't care whether your truck is crashed, I bet your employer does. When you begin your shift, the narcs are signed out in the medic's name, and they are responsible for their safekeeping.
> Although it's true if a criminal wants something bad enough they'll try, simply locking your truck makes it much harder for anyone to take your stuff...
> 
> I was just trying to point out how much information some posters on this topic have put in their replies. It's almost like an _ invitation _ for trucks and meds to disappear.



Ahh man. I told how my company does things. Now I got to be extra careful when I lock the unit. I have to make sure no one looks in the 2 most odvious spots for a hide-a-key. I also have to make sure no one ever knows that I have a set of keys for the ambulance, stations, narc cabinet, needle cabinet, etc on my person at all times when on duty. Those are very highly sensitive company secrets that only people who work for my company know. 

If I follow company protocol and something goes missing/gets stolen it's not my problem. It's not any bad marks against me. We have had units stolen even when they are locked along with meds. People steal it's nothing new. And hey if they steal my ambulance and wreck it that means I get a new unit. Hmmmmmmm our units are getting pretty old......


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jul 29, 2011)

firefite said:


> Ahh man. I told how my company does things. Now I got to be extra careful when I lock the unit. I have to make sure no one looks in the 2 most odvious spots for a hide-a-key. I also have to make sure no one ever knows that I have a set of keys for the ambulance, stations, narc cabinet, needle cabinet, etc on my person at all times when on duty. Those are very highly sensitive company secrets that only people who work for my company know.
> 
> If I follow company protocol and something goes missing/gets stolen it's not my problem. It's not any bad marks against me. We have had units stolen even when they are locked along with meds. People steal it's nothing new. And hey if they steal my ambulance and wreck it that means I get a new unit. Hmmmmmmm our units are getting pretty old......



We carry knoxbox keys with the narc keys, and the poo would hit the fan and cover the walls if those were lost (these are the master keys to the city, essentially). As for narcs, we keep a set in the jumpbag and all the reserves double-locked.


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## JJR512 (Jul 29, 2011)

NVRob said:


> All of the trucks where I am going to school have a switch hidden on the outside of the rig to unlock it...


The  Baltimore City ambulances have a "hidden" switch on the outside as well. But so many of the ff/medics that staff them use that as the primary means of unlocking the ambulance that I'm sure by now, pretty much everyone knows where it is.


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## firecoins (Jul 29, 2011)

94H said:


> So how many of you lock your bus whenever you leave it?
> 
> Were supposed to now, but it kind of seems like a bad idea seeing as how we have 1 key for the box. I feel like systems which lock the bus everytime they leave it have keys for both crew members. Am I right?



we lock it everytime.  Its not convienant.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Jul 29, 2011)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> We carry knoxbox keys with the narc keys, and the poo would hit the fan and cover the walls if those were lost (these are the master keys to the city, essentially). As for narcs, we keep a set in the jumpbag and all the reserves double-locked.


I thought knoxbox keys were required to be secured via a capture key mechanism?


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## abckidsmom (Jul 29, 2011)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> I thought knoxbox keys were required to be secured via a capture key mechanism?



It's easier that way, but we have to transfer our knox box keys from person to person.  Whoever's driving the engine for the day is personally responsible for them.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 29, 2011)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> I thought knoxbox keys were required to be secured via a capture key mechanism?



Some of our units have knoxboxes. They are secured with a key and a combination. They key is always left inside the key hole so we don't lose it. And you have to be entered into the system inorder for you to us the combination (because it's the last 4 of your social).


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## fafinaf (Jul 30, 2011)

always lock it. you don't want your rig being on the 6 o'clock news with a highlight of some crazy guy who stole it running from the cops. i don't think your company would appreciate the image it would sent out either.. it has happened.. 

anything could happen. why not lock it? takes 2 seconds and prevents anything from happening. better to be safe than sorry.


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## fafinaf (Jul 30, 2011)

it's funny.. you can tell which people respect the company they work for based on their responses. the "it's not mine, i don't care what happens to it" attitude really shows how the employee feels about their employer. kind of sad..


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## 94H (Jul 30, 2011)

Well this post took an interesting turn. My main goal in starting it was gathering some information about other services so I could go to my Director of Operations and convince him to get another set of keys made to the box. We just started locking the ambulances and it sometimes does get annoying when you get outside only to realize you cant get whatever you went out for because the box is locked.

We do have secure ignition and it is used all the time, so someone driving away with the truck is less of a concern then someone stealing supplies.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Jul 30, 2011)

fafinaf said:


> always lock it. you don't want your rig being on the 6 o'clock news with a highlight of some crazy guy who stole it running from the cops. i don't think your company would appreciate the image it would sent out either.. it has happened..
> 
> anything could happen. why not lock it? takes 2 seconds and prevents anything from happening. better to be safe than sorry.



Yeah, it happens that some maniac steals it every once in awhile, but they generally don't get far.  I don't think it's that bad for anyone's image except the guy stealing it.  You stole an emergency vehicle trying to help others--I think that shows what kind of character one has!



94H said:


> Well this post took an interesting turn. My main goal in starting it was gathering some information about other services so I could go to my Director of Operations and convince him to get another set of keys made to the box. We just started locking the ambulances and it sometimes does get annoying when you get outside only to realize you cant get whatever you went out for because the box is locked.
> 
> We do have secure ignition and it is used all the time, so someone driving away with the truck is less of a concern then someone stealing supplies.



Have you thought about giving one of the guys the hard key and the other the wireless dongle?


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## 94H (Jul 30, 2011)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> Have you thought about giving one of the guys the hard key and the other the wireless dongle?



We just have a hard key for the ignition and cab doors and a key for the box. They are both on the same piece of wire which is stamped (welded?) together. Keys cant be separated.


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## Tigger (Aug 1, 2011)

Depends on the day, honestly. Every truck has two sets of keys hopefully, so if it is hot out the driver will leave his keys in the truck while it's running and the tech will lock the truck with his. I don't think this is a great solution, all someone has to do is break the window and boom, the truck is there. When I work nights, I try and make the driver take the key with him.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 1, 2011)

Well, it all comes down to this: If someone wants in your rig bad enough, they'll get into it!


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## Sasha (Aug 1, 2011)

Tigger said:


> Depends on the day, honestly. Every truck has two sets of keys hopefully, so if it is hot out the driver will leave his keys in the truck while it's running and the tech will lock the truck with his. I don't think this is a great solution, all someone has to do is break the window and boom, the truck is there. When I work nights, I try and make the driver take the key with him.



I think its fantastic. Its not good for anyone to come back into a boiling truck, patients and crew alike. Take the truck, please. Maybe we will get a new one.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## Tigger (Aug 1, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I think its fantastic. Its not good for anyone to come back into a boiling truck, patients and crew alike. Take the truck, please. Maybe we will get a new one.
> 
> Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk



I already have a new truck, so it would be a bummer if someone took ours. We only have 11 BLS trucks and they're all newish, so I'm pretty sure I would just be out of a job. I do appreciate a cold patient compartment though, these wool/poly pants suck hard.


Sent from my out of area communications device.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 1, 2011)

Tigger said:


> I already have a new truck, so it would be a bummer if someone took ours. We only have 11 BLS trucks and they're all newish, so I'm pretty sure I would just be out of a job. I do appreciate a cold patient compartment though, these wool/poly pants suck hard.
> 
> 
> Sent from my out of area communications device.



Only 11?? We have 4 BLS rigs. Each of them has well over 280,000 miles and have ran ALS for years before so they are roughed up. We have 4 BLS crews for the 4 rigs. They are constantly going out of service for alot of things. I do like it when we get to use the CCT rig


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## Tigger (Aug 2, 2011)

firefite said:


> Only 11?? We have 4 BLS rigs. Each of them has well over 280,000 miles and have ran ALS for years before so they are roughed up. We have 4 BLS crews for the 4 rigs. They are constantly going out of service for alot of things. I do like it when we get to use the CCT rig



This is when I feel very lucky to have somehow gotten a job with a service whose one year birthday was only a few months ago. Suffice to say the owners really like us to lock all of their new investments.


Sent from my out of area communications device.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 2, 2011)

Tigger said:


> This is when I feel very lucky to have somehow gotten a job with a service whose one year birthday was only a few months ago. Suffice to say the owners really like us to lock all of their new investments.
> 
> 
> Sent from my out of area communications device.



Ooh. My company 10+ years old so there aren't many "new" investments.


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## DrParasite (Aug 2, 2011)

every ambulance should be locked when the crew is not in it.

older ambulances that do 911 should have kill switches, which allow the doors to be locked, the engine running, and the keys removed while the crew goes inside to assess the patient.  older ambulances are more likely to not start, especially in the winter, and you don't want that to happen while you have a sick patient who you just brought out to the ambulance.


truetiger said:


> It's a little red button by the ignition. Once you've parked just apply the break, hold the button and then remove the keys. The rig will continue to idle.


just like that, but if you remove the keys, and apply the break, the engine dies, so no one can drive off with the ambulance.

also, driver and passenger should each have their own set of keys, that are kept with each individual at all times.  you start the shift with 2 sets, you must return 2 sets at the end of the day.

I keep my work bag, laptop and GPS with me when I am working in the suburbs.  I don't want anyone to borrow my personal equipment without my permission.

most city EMS agencies I am aware of have written policies to lock their ambulance when not occupied.  maybe the rules are different in the suburbs and the sticks, but I still think every ambulance should be locked (and the power locks work) when not occupied by the crew.


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## rmabrey (Aug 2, 2011)

Im late to the party, but we have anti theft on ours. Hit the gas and the engine dies without the key. So we lock ours most of the time. If it looks like time is of the essence we wont lock it


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 3, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> every ambulance should be locked when the crew is not in it.
> 
> older ambulances that do 911 should have kill switches, which allow the doors to be locked, the engine running, and the keys removed while the crew goes inside to assess the patient.  older ambulances are more likely to not start, especially in the winter, and you don't want that to happen while you have a sick patient who you just brought out to the ambulance.
> just like that, but if you remove the keys, and apply the break, the engine dies, so no one can drive off with the ambulance.
> ...



I find the opposite around here.  Everyone that I know in the city here doesn't lock anything when on scene!  It's too much of a hassle and the chance of no one noticing the truck moving on scene is very slim.  If we're just out on errands, then we do have to lock it/take the keys with us or make sure it is in line of sight, but on an emergency run, fiddling with keys is just a hassle when you might have 4 or 5 vehicles on scene!


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## Bon-Tech (Aug 3, 2011)

Neither my IFT nor my volley service do routinely. Since I carry quite the lot of valuables in my backpack, it sure as heck gets locked when I work.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 3, 2011)

Another reason I like to lock my ambulance is sometimes the firefighters will tell a patients family member they can ride with us and then place them in the passenger seat. So when I hop in the driver seat a look over and get surprised. So with a locked ambulance the firefighters won't be putting any one in my ambulance.


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## tracer (Aug 3, 2011)

We have to but everyone one that truck has a key to get in.


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## eypeon (Aug 3, 2011)

Normally we also lock our Ambulances up. Especially lately, a lot of crews will mess with stuff in the front or back ie: Move stuff around in the back for the attendant or turn on all the lights and siren for the driver.(I'm guilty of doing such a thing) Also working in LA, we are always worried about theft.


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