# Survival Flight



## VFlutter (Nov 26, 2019)

As I am sure most have seen the NTSB report regarding the Survival Flight accident I thought it would be good to post, as a reminder to all and a warning to those eager for their first flight job.

It has always been known that SF did some shady things however this report is appalling on so many levels. The FAA needs to shut them down. The blatant disregard for regulations and safety from the owner and upper management is not fixable and fines are not sufficient.  This type of behavior ruins our profession






						VIDEO: NTSB Releases Report About Medical Helicopter Crash in January - EMS Flight Safety Network
					

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ECHO Heliops is offering relocation assistance for current SF employees who chose to find another job





__ https://www.facebook.com/echoheliops/photos/a.1140863995939963/3839491532743849


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## akflightmedic (Nov 26, 2019)

What sucks is being a member of several flight groups on Facebook and seeing the posts from Rachel Cunningham....she joined the group, got hired, went through orientation, was excited about her new job. One year later...dead from a crash during a flight which simply did not need to occur.


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## GMCmedic (Nov 26, 2019)

That report is hard to read. 

I was amazed at how many SF employees were defending that company when that memo came to light. Tells me that some of this has become cultural norms within that company. 

I hope this report reaches a lot of people interested in future flight careers so they know to avoid this company at all costs.


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## VFlutter (Nov 26, 2019)

GMCmedic said:


> That report is hard to read.
> 
> I was amazed at how many SF employees were defending that company when that memo came to light. Tells me that some of this has become cultural norms within that company.
> 
> I hope this report reaches a lot of people interested in future flight careers so they know to avoid this company at all costs.



Agreed, I have had a couple SF acquaintances try to defend it as a base or region issue when it is clear this was a systemic failure at the highest level.


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## StCEMT (Nov 26, 2019)

Her HR email just makes this all look even worse.


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## E tank (Nov 26, 2019)

Skimmed the report a couple of times and I couldn't find the reason for the crash. Where is it? The section on icing, as far as I could tell, just talked about the phenomenon and what to do about it.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 26, 2019)

E tank said:


> Skimmed the report a couple of times and I couldn't find the reason for the crash. Where is it? The section on icing, as far as I could tell, just talked about the phenomenon and what to do about it.


This was just the factual report. The final report which will list a reason or suspected reason for the crash should be released soon. Based on all the emails and HR reports I wouldn’t be surprised if this was another Controlled Flight Into Terrain (CFIT) caused by entering Inadvertent Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IIMC)


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## CCCSD (Nov 26, 2019)

Also known as Pilot error.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 26, 2019)

ECHO HeliOps is now offering $1000 relocation assistance for current survival flight employees to leave and get hired elsewhere. If they are not a ECHO member they are still offering $250 to get hired somewhere else.


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## GMCmedic (Nov 26, 2019)

I know nothing about SF with exception of relation to this crash, so maybe I have formed an unfair opinion, but that email sounds like a bunch of BS.


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## medichopeful (Nov 26, 2019)

VFlutter said:


> We are going to continue to take an honest look at every flight request that comes in regardless of what competing company turned it down.



I just read this sentence as "we just don't care about risks, we'll take the flight."  This company needs to be shut down, and management charged.


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## E tank (Nov 26, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Also known as Pilot error.



So yeah... Not really impressed with the content of the report...a lot of cut and paste restating of  policy and operational manuals mixed in with statements of people they interviewed and some stuff that I thought was irrelevant (they didn't ask me, so...) .... Kind of a jumble of stuff without any real orderly progression from one theme to the next, I thought.

 It does paint a pretty unflattering picture of the operation for sure, but offers no indication at all that this particular event was related to that in any way. 

Apparently not the point of the report, but sort of more opens a can of worms than giving any clarity.


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## CANMAN (Dec 13, 2019)

GMCmedic said:


> That report is hard to read.
> 
> I was amazed at how many SF employees were defending that company when that memo came to light. Tells me that some of this has become cultural norms within that company.
> 
> I hope this report reaches a lot of people interested in future flight careers so they know to avoid this company at all costs.



Just goes to show they don't know what they don't know. For a lot of them it was/is likely their first HEMS job and they failed to educated themselves prior to on what makes an outfit safe, so they aren't familiar with what certain industry standards are, or have never worked for/been exposed to a great safety culture and operations. That's the only way I see that someone agrees with SOG's like they have.


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## FiremanMike (Dec 18, 2019)

The flight medic was a friend of mine.  A lot of what is said above and in that report are true and were known issues in the area.

Brad had no flight experience and was excited to be in the air.  

I have a lot more to say about this, but I'm going to wait until the lawsuits are settled and the families are bazillionaires before I put it out there on the interwebs.


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## CANMAN (Dec 18, 2019)

FiremanMike said:


> The flight medic was a friend of mine.  A lot of what is said above and in that report are true and were known issues in the area.
> 
> Brad had no flight experience and was excited to be in the air.
> 
> I have a lot more to say about this, but I'm going to wait until the lawsuits are settled and the families are bazillionaires before I put it out there on the interwebs.



Sorry for your loss man.


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## FiremanMike (Dec 19, 2019)

CANMAN said:


> Sorry for your loss man.



Thanks.. We'd lost touch over the last few  years, but in 20  years he's the first LODD that I've personally known, hung out with, drank beer with..  Certainly makes the funeral that much harder..

Then survival flight did the flyover of the graveside service.. In marginal weather.. I still get angry thinking about that..


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## DesertMedic66 (May 19, 2020)

Update on the NTSB findings from the crash:



			https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/2020-CEN19FA072-BMG-abstract.pdf


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## CANMAN (May 19, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Update on the NTSB findings from the crash:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/2020-CEN19FA072-BMG-abstract.pdf


So many people in the industry “let’s just wait til the report comes out” when the issues were clear as day. Well, there it is. Same story, different program. Sad.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 19, 2020)

So many issues on all sides. How on earth can a preflight risk assessment be completed post flight? Swapping pilots while the aircraft is already running? No preflight inspection? No weather check? Sadly the questions do not end there.


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## VFlutter (May 19, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> So many issues on all sides. How on earth can a preflight risk assessment be completed post flight? Swapping pilots while the aircraft is already running? No preflight inspection? No weather check? Sadly the questions do not end there.




To play Devil's advocate many of our older pilots talk about the glory days when our bases flew 100+ flights a month, frequently hot swapped pilots, and flew in weather minimums 1/3 of what they are today, without NVGs and did not have near the frequency of incidents that occur today. Although the profession has evolved and safety has improved I think the issues are much bigger than those practices being inherently dangerous.

I hate to say it but I think the quality and experience of pilots has drastically declined over the years. You can argue the same with medical crew. 

Survival flight suffered horrific pressure to fly with atrocious oversight and a horrible culture that continues to this day.


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## E tank (May 19, 2020)

VFlutter said:


> To play Devil's advocate many of our older pilots talk about the glory days when our bases flew 100+ flights a month, frequently hot swapped pilots, and flew in weather minimums 1/3 of what they are today, without NVGs and did not have near the frequency of incidents that occur today. Although the profession has evolved and safety has improved I think the issues are much bigger than those practices being inherently dangerous.
> 
> I hate to say it but I think the quality and experience of pilots has drastically declined over the years. You can argue the same with medical crew.



Way more programs than there used to be even 20 years ago. If HEMS is elite now (and it still mostly is) it was uber elite then.


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## FiremanMike (May 19, 2020)

VFlutter said:


> To play Devil's advocate many of our older pilots talk about the glory days when our bases flew 100+ flights a month, frequently hot swapped pilots, and flew in weather minimums 1/3 of what they are today, without NVGs and did not have near the frequency of incidents that occur today. Although the profession has evolved and safety has improved I think the issues are much bigger than those practices being inherently dangerous.
> 
> I hate to say it but I think the quality and experience of pilots has drastically declined over the years. You can argue the same with medical crew.
> 
> Survival flight suffered horrific pressure to fly with atrocious oversight and a horrible culture that continues to this day.


That was probably back when the bulk of the pilots were returning Vietnam pilots.. I had the awesome opportunity to sit in the back with a Vietnam pilot once, he was amazing and I trusted him immensely.


As for SF, I hope this gives the attorneys for the families all the documentation they need to bankrupt that company.


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## FiremanMike (May 19, 2020)

The sad truth is that there was less than a year of HEMS experience combined on that aircraft.  Add that to a company with a horrendous pressure to fly to try to put the other two local companies out of business, this crash was inevitable.


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## Jon (May 19, 2020)

VFlutter said:


> To play Devil's advocate many of our older pilots talk about the glory days when our bases flew 100+ flights a month, frequently hot swapped pilots, and flew in weather minimums 1/3 of what they are today, without NVGs and did not have near the frequency of incidents that occur today. Although the profession has evolved and safety has improved I think the issues are much bigger than those practices being inherently dangerous.
> 
> I hate to say it but I think the quality and experience of pilots has drastically declined over the years. You can argue the same with medical crew.
> 
> Survival flight suffered horrific pressure to fly with atrocious oversight and a horrible culture that continues to this day.



I remember hearing those stories.

I think part of it likely was pilot experience, part was that conditions were different (fewer man made tall objects, and less congestion in general).

Things have changed. We need to accept that we can’t continue to try to justify modern operations by holding up past standards


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## GMCmedic (May 20, 2020)

Did survival flight every produce that evidence that would prove it was not weather related? Ive been waiting on that crap show, wonder what all those SF employees that were standing up for the company are thinking now.


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## GMCmedic (May 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> Did survival flight every produce that evidence that would prove it was not weather related? Ive been waiting on that crap show, wonder what all those SF employees that were standing up for the company are thinking now.


Nevermind, I found it. Though I didnt see any actual evidence to support their theory.


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## RocketMedic (Jun 5, 2020)

I reckon CFIT is a lot more likely than “shot down by tree thieves”.


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