# Online EMT-P advice??



## VirginiaEMT (Jul 6, 2012)

Before we get started I will state that I know it is preferential to take a class in person.

With that said, I am looking for an online EMT-I/99 to EMT-P bridge that I can do online and make a few visits to wherever the campus is.

I am part-time career  NREMT-I/99 (36 hours a week) and I have a full time career as a commercial insurance agent so I can't go to classes during the week because I am working 70-80 hours a week and the insurance pay far exceeds EMS pay. I am 48 years old and have worked to establish my business and simply can't just take 2-3 days time from it.

In our area an I/99 can perform every procedure that a paramedic can perform except for a cricothyrotomy and the pay is exactly the same so it has nothing to do with money. The reason I want to be a paramedic is for the extra knowledge that will make me a better provider and it is simply a goal I want to accomplish before I turn 50.

Any advice on schools that may be helpful?


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## Medic Tim (Jul 6, 2012)

With the NR transition date years away, it may be a while before you find a course/program that fits your needs. I am sure there will be more of them offered the closer it gets to the transition.


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## ZootownMedic (Jul 11, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> Before we get started I will state that I know it is preferential to take a class in person.
> 
> With that said, I am looking for an online EMT-I/99 to EMT-P bridge that I can do online and make a few visits to wherever the campus is.
> 
> ...



Good luck. No offense but I wouldn't want to be an 'online' medic. Here in CO you would get chewed up and spit out working on the streets.......we have a very progressive system however but there is a HUGE gap between I/99 and P's here. They aren't even really recognized.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 11, 2012)

http://percomonline.com used to do an online Paramedic course. Not sure if they still do. It's the full course but it may be your only option. Plus it'll help reinforce what you've already learned in your mini-medic course  sorry, couldn't resist.


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## ZootownMedic (Jul 11, 2012)

So as I didn't mean to sound rude in the above....
I also did some research and it looks like the other guys are right too. Probably gonna happen....just not in great numbers and not until the 'deadline' gets closer. Good luck man

EMT-Intermediate/99 (EMT-I/99) to Paramedic: One of the most difficult decisions facing SOP developers was whether to discontinue the EMT-Intermediate (I/99) as a national level. Currently, the NREMT has about 3,000 I/99s on the registry rolls. Although I/99s are certified to perform many of the same interventions as paramedics, educators and supervisors have reported that I/99s lack the depth of knowledge of a Paramedic. Because the gap is about knowledge and a few additional drugs, which can be covered in a classroom experience, the NREMT believes the gap between the I/99 and Paramedic levels can be effectively bridged via a transition course without clinical or field internship.

Personally, I don’t see why a competent, practicing I/99 needs an internship to become a Paramedic. However, educational subject matter experts have indicated the knowledge gap between these levels is substantial. This may be true for some I/99s, depending on how much continuing education they’ve obtained, what education was included in their original I/99 course, and what their state requires for curriculum and competency. Because of these discrepancies, the transition toolbox will be all-inclusive, but not all I/99s moving toward the Paramedic certification will need all of the material.

Although the gap of material between the I/99 and Paramedic levels hasn’t yet been identified, it appears this transition course may run over two or even three recertification cycles. Therefore, the I/99-Paramedic transition may take a number of years to implement. The bottom line is that I/99s must show completion of a transition course that makes up the knowledge gap, however broad the gap is. Once that transition course is completed, an I/99 can take the NREMT Paramedic examination up to six times. The NREMT does not plan to test I/99s for practical skills because its I/99 practical exam is nearly identical to the Paramedic practical exam.

William E. Brown Jr. is the executive director of the National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians.


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## VirginiaEMT (Jul 12, 2012)

No gap whatsoever here. I can administer ALL of the same drugs, perform ALL of the same procedures, and get paid exactly the same. No offense to you either but I have met some really incompetent paramedics that I know I currently know more than they do and they made it through a classroom setting and received their glitter patch.

I personally believe that a self-motivated person should be able to take the class online, build upon what he/she has already learned in I/99 class, get the certification, which wouldn't be much more, and continue to study and become a great, competent paramedic.

You can't really put everyone in the same box because everyone's motivation level is different.

Oh yeah, the only way I would be in Colorado is if I could work for my favorite team, the Bronco's..LOL



SmokeMedic said:


> Good luck. No offense but I wouldn't want to be an 'online' medic. Here in CO you would get chewed up and spit out working on the streets.......we have a very progressive system however but there is a HUGE gap between I/99 and P's here. They aren't even really recognized.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 12, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> No gap whatsoever here. I can administer ALL of the same drugs, perform ALL of the same procedures, and get paid exactly the same. No offense to you either but I have met some really incompetent paramedics that I know I currently know more than they do and they made it through a classroom setting and received their glitter patch.



But you aren't a medic. You're an intermediate with a big toolbox and less eduction behind that toolbox. Not trying to be a ****. 

You sound self motivated and like you put in the extra time so I don't doubt you know your stuff but when it comes down to it you're still an intermediate. Being a medic isn't all about the skills and drugs, it's about knowing what's going on rather than just see x do y expect z.

I offered you a link to an online course, like everyone said the bridge courses wont pop up for a while seeing as 99s aren't required to transition for a while.


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## VirginiaEMT (Jul 12, 2012)

I agree with you 100% and that is why I want more knowledge.That us why I'm studying axis deviation, advanced EKG stuff, capnograhy,etc. that wasn't really taught, or briefly touched upon, in the EMT-I/99 classroom. I checked out the site you gave me and it sounds like something that is worth looking into, if it is a good program. They will allow you to challenge the test to skip the first part of the program if I am reading it right. And I could take a short vacation and simply fly down there to do my practicals.

Thanks for the advice..



NVRob said:


> But you aren't a medic. You're an intermediate with a big toolbox and less eduction behind that toolbox. Not trying to be a ****.
> 
> You sound self motivated and like you put in the extra time so I don't doubt you know your stuff but when it comes down to it you're still an intermediate. Being a medic isn't all about the skills and drugs, it's about knowing what's going on rather than just see x do y expect z.
> 
> I offered you a link to an online course, like everyone said the bridge courses wont pop up for a while seeing as 99s aren't required to transition for a while.


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## medic417 (Jul 13, 2012)

SmokeMedic said:


> Good luck. No offense but I wouldn't want to be an 'online' medic. Here in CO you would get chewed up and spit out working on the streets.......we have a very progressive system however but there is a HUGE gap between I/99 and P's here. They aren't even really recognized.



You won't know someone took a quality online program unless they tell you.  Quality online programs turn out quality medics just like brick diploma mills turn out junk.  The method of education is not a problem if it fits your learning style.  Quality of education should be the discussion.


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## tawnymarie (Jul 27, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> No gap whatsoever here. I can administer ALL of the same drugs, perform ALL of the same procedures, and get paid exactly the same. No offense to you either but I have met some really incompetent paramedics that I know I currently know more than they do and they made it through a classroom setting and received their glitter patch.
> 
> I personally believe that a self-motivated person should be able to take the class online, build upon what he/she has already learned in I/99 class, get the certification, which wouldn't be much more, and continue to study and become a great, competent paramedic.
> 
> ...



I have used hybrid programs for both my nursing assistant license and now my EMT-B certification.  I think a hybrid program can be done and I think it's best done by someone with a medical background (which you have).  However, in an earlier post you said you can't really be away 2-3 days at a time.  All of the Paramedic Hybrid programs I'm familiar with (PERCOM, Somewhat Lenoir Community College, NY Methodist etc) require you to have extensive skill sessions (4-7 days at a time, 3-4 times during your studies there)...This doesn't included other required clinical hours.  I know you say you do almost everything a Paramedic does...That's great.  I've met some incompetent doctors, paramedics, etc but, unfortunately you're not really going to find a bridge program that doesn't require those skill sessions.  You never know there MAY BE just a skill you haven't learned or perfected yet as an Intermediate that is covered in those sessions...That's the point in having a bridge program--to close the gap.  I've met LVN's who knew how to do a lot of what an RN can do but, they still learned something new when they transitioned into their RN studies.  I'm a huge fan of Hybrid programs...It allows those of us who must work full-time to still accomplish our goals but just know any legit bridge program will require hours upon hours of skill sessions/clinical training.  You'll need more than 2-3 days off from the job that pays the bulk of your bills to complete this training.  I hope you find something that works for you!


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## Medic Tim (Jul 27, 2012)

tawnymarie said:


> I have used hybrid programs for both my nursing assistant license and now my EMT-B certification.  I think a hybrid program can be done and I think it's best done by someone with a medical background (which you have).  However, in an earlier post you said you can't really be away 2-3 days at a time.  All of the Paramedic Hybrid programs I'm familiar with (PERCOM, Somewhat Lenoir Community College, NY Methodist etc) require you to have extensive skill sessions (4-7 days at a time, 3-4 times during your studies there)...This doesn't included other required clinical hours.  I know you say you do almost everything a Paramedic does...That's great.  I've met some incompetent doctors, paramedics, etc but, unfortunately you're not really going to find a bridge program that doesn't require those skill sessions.  You never know there MAY BE just a skill you haven't learned or perfected yet as an Intermediate that is covered in those sessions...That's the point in having a bridge program--to close the gap.  I've met LVN's who knew how to do a lot of what an RN can do but, they still learned something new when they transitioned into their RN studies.  I'm a huge fan of Hybrid programs...It allows those of us who must work full-time to still accomplish our goals but just know any legit bridge program will require hours upon hours of skill sessions/clinical training.  You'll need more than 2-3 days off from the job that pays the bulk of your bills to complete this training.  I hope you find something that works for you!



The nr has said the gap between I99 and Medic can be covered in classroom without skills testing. I am sure there will he online options but as i said earlier it will be a few years. A quality program will likely have a skills component but like many programs, the minimum will be taught to get by.


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## tawnymarie (Jul 27, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> The nr has said the gap between I99 and Medic can be covered in classroom without skills testing. I am sure there will he online options but as i said earlier it will be a few years. A quality program will likely have a skills component but like many programs, the minimum will be taught to get by.



He'll probably find something then but like you said good quality programs will come with a skills session.  Hearing the word "minimum" when it comes to education in healthcare is just icky :wacko:  Regardless hope it works out.  I know how it feels to have to work 40 hours a week at your "day job" while you try to reach your goals.


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## perimedic (Aug 9, 2012)

Actually, according to NREMT, the Commonwealth of Virginia, and the paramedics I work with, we are medics.  And all the career paramedics I work with do not treat me as a second-class citizen.  My I-99 course was paramedic-based. As VirginiaEMT stated, with the exception of a surgical crich, we have the exact same SOP that paramedics do (and in some areas, with additional training, our individual OMDs will allow surgical crichs).  Furthermore, I-99s are so valuable to Virginia that they are not going to phase them out when they are nationally replaced by AEMTs;  they will remain a valid certification above AEMT.  There ARE some places in VA where a paramedic earns more, but in a state served by a huge population of volunteers, the additional year of school and $3000 in tuition/books is prohibitive.

That said, the Medical College of Georgia is a major training facility for federal medics and is planning to offer on-line paramedic courses, according to my paramedic training coordinator.  One will have to travel there to demonstrate practical skills sometime in the process.  I was told that if I did decide to move to paramedic, that could be an option (as I'm an operational employee on 24-hour emergency call nation-wide and school attendance is difficult).


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## Tigger (Aug 9, 2012)

SmokeMedic said:


> Good luck. No offense but I wouldn't want to be an 'online' medic. Here in CO you would get chewed up and spit out working on the streets.......we have a very progressive system however but there is a HUGE gap between I/99 and P's here. They aren't even really recognized.



On what basis do you make such a claim? There's nothing inherently better or worse about online or accelerated classes, the content is the same. You either get it, or you don't and the "streets" don't care where or how you learned it.


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## Tigger (Aug 9, 2012)

perimedic said:


> Actually, according to NREMT, the Commonwealth of Virginia, and the paramedics I work with, we are medics.  And all the career paramedics I work with do not treat me as a second-class citizen.  My I-99 course was paramedic-based. As VirginiaEMT stated, with the exception of a surgical crich, we have the exact same SOP that paramedics do (and in some areas, with additional training, our individual OMDs will allow surgical crichs).  Furthermore, I-99s are so valuable to Virginia that they are not going to phase them out when they are nationally replaced by AEMTs;  they will remain a valid certification above AEMT.  There ARE some places in VA where a paramedic earns more, but in a state served by a huge population of volunteers, the additional year of school and $3000 in tuition/books is prohibitive.
> 
> That said, the Medical College of Georgia is a major training facility for federal medics and is planning to offer on-line paramedic courses, according to my paramedic training coordinator.  One will have to travel there to demonstrate practical skills sometime in the process.  I was told that if I did decide to move to paramedic, that could be an option (as I'm an operational employee on 24-hour emergency call nation-wide and school attendance is difficult).



What is a "paramedic based" intermediate class? If there is no difference in scope, are there different standing orders?

Personally such a certification scares me, all the tools but a lot less education on the why part it seems.


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## Medic Tim (Aug 9, 2012)

perimedic said:


> Actually, according to NREMT, the Commonwealth of Virginia, and the paramedics I work with, we are medics.  And all the career paramedics I work with do not treat me as a second-class citizen.  My I-99 course was paramedic-based. As VirginiaEMT stated, with the exception of a surgical crich, we have the exact same SOP that paramedics do (and in some areas, with additional training, our individual OMDs will allow surgical crichs).  Furthermore, I-99s are so valuable to Virginia that they are not going to phase them out when they are nationally replaced by AEMTs;  they will remain a valid certification above AEMT.  There ARE some places in VA where a paramedic earns more, but in a state served by a huge population of volunteers, the additional year of school and $3000 in tuition/books is prohibitive.
> 
> That said, the Medical College of Georgia is a major training facility for federal medics and is planning to offer on-line paramedic courses, according to my paramedic training coordinator.  One will have to travel there to demonstrate practical skills sometime in the process.  I was told that if I did decide to move to paramedic, that could be an option (as I'm an operational employee on 24-hour emergency call nation-wide and school attendance is difficult).




 There are I-85 programs taught out of Medic books . I fail to see how it makes a difference. The biggest difference between emt of any level and Medic is education. Just because you can perform the same skills does not mean you are on the same level. As it stands the Medic scope is too large for the current skill sets of many states. the Medic educational requirements need to be increased.

I am sure you are a skilled provider and this post was not a slam against you in any way.I am sure it will be easy to transition to Medic but, you are not a Medic until you take a Medic program.


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## perimedic (Aug 9, 2012)

What I meant by paramedic-based is that we used the same textbook as the paramedic class, were required to get ACLS, PALS, and ITLS to graduate, know 12-leads, and had the same clinical requirements as paramedics.  Also, fail one test, you're out--even if its the last 2 weeks of the course.  Must have an 84% to graduate (vs 70% at the other schools in the state).  Our I-99s have gone to NY with their VA certification and transcirpts and been given paramedic reciprocity.  During class, tests and precepting to run AIC on the medic unit, I was never allowed to state what med or treatment I was giving without explaining the physiology involved in the reasons and consequences of my intervention 

The National Registry practicals are identical except the medics have an Oral, where they have 5 minutes or so to verbally describe their scenario treatment.

As far as standing orders, again the only difference in my region of Virginia (Fredericksburg City and 8 suburban/country counties) between a paramedic and an I-99 is surgical crich: they can, I can't.  The rest are identical.  And all procedures for I and P are standing--none require online med control (not that it isn't a good idea at times...)  Until a couple years ago, the use of dopamine in hypovolemia was an online vs standing order difference, but no more.  Now, if both me and a paramedic are on the same call, he/she outranks me.

While I was typing this, an acquaintance posted on his Facebook page that he just became a paramedic.  "Surgical Crich, anyone?" he said.  Because that's the only change in his practice with the upgrade.


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## Tigger (Aug 9, 2012)

What is the course length in comparison to an actual paramedic class?

As others have said, it isn't paramedic level unless he course is the same length as the paramedic class. I'd bet there is no A&P course requirement either prior to course entry.


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## perimedic (Aug 9, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> There are I-85 programs taught out of Medic books . I fail to see how it makes a difference. The biggest difference between emt of any level and Medic is education. Just because you can perform the same skills does not mean you are on the same level. As it stands the Medic scope is too large for the current skill sets of many states. the Medic educational requirements need to be increased.
> 
> I am sure you are a skilled provider and this post was not a slam against you in any way.I am sure it will be easy to transition to Medic but, you are not a Medic until you take a Medic program.


That's OK.  I don't take it as a personal slam   I am just quoting others.

Maybe I should clarify that what we are discussing could really be a matter of semantics.  We call NREMT-Ps "Paramedics".  NREMT-I/99 is a "medic".  All I's and P's are medics, but only P's are paramedics (kinda like the square/rectangle business). So we do make a distinction, if that is where the debate lies.

As I passed the NREMT/I-99, the first words out the the National Registry representative was, "Congratulations, you are a medic."  (Those who were taking the paramedic exam were told "Congratulations, you are a paramedic.") The Commonwealth of Virginia Office of EMS, who licenses us, calls us medics.  They don't call I-85s, EMT-Es, or EMT-Bs that.  

My state-certified 20year paramedic preceptor, when releasing me to be an AIC after 6 months, 310 hours, and a list of 99 required ALS contacts and demonstrated skills told me, "You are a released medic, now, and you have demonstrated to me that you can handle anything you come across."   Many I's attended the same school I did and have the same AIC release requirements;  so I'm sure they heard similar from their preceptors.

Regarding the textbook--true, but we did cover all 7 volumes from cover to cover.  I know EMT-Es that just hit sections here and there.

I guarantee I will move up to paramedic in the next few years, for as Virginia will keep the I, as far as National Registry goes (which I need for my collateral duty with the government), I would drop to an AEMT and my scope of practice would shrink.  I never like regression.  Right now it is the time commitment issue, like with the OP.

I hope I clarified my intentions because I didn't mean to annoy or start an argument.  As people are on here from all over the country and globe, there are a variety of perceptions and experiences.  For example, some states don't even have any I's, be they 85 or 99, so people are unfamiliar with the concept.  I'm sharing how it is here in the Old Dominion.


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## perimedic (Aug 9, 2012)

Tigger said:


> What is the course length in comparison to an actual paramedic class?
> 
> As others have said, it isn't paramedic level unless he course is the same length as the paramedic class. I'd bet there is no A&P course requirement either prior to course entry.


I'll let you know the course hours after I check, but regarding A&P:  only if you take either course at a community college are you required to have an Anatomy 100 under your belt.  If you take the courses through the NREMT and Virginia certified providers (Associates in Emergency Care is one private school, others are run by the regional emergency medical systems councils which are the governing authorities for protocols and management of the OMDs), A&P is a part of the curriculum.


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## perimedic (Aug 9, 2012)

In a nutshell:  There are 2 tracks to paramedic.

1.  From zero to paramedic:  900 hours total.
2.  Step method (most often used):  EMT-B 165 hours, bridge to I-99 550 hours (total 715 hours), bridge to paramedic 400 hours (total 1115 hours).  

The I to P bridge is primarily more hours A&P and geriatrics, and more hours clinicals.


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## VirginiaEMT (Aug 10, 2012)

tawnymarie said:


> I have used hybrid programs for both my nursing assistant license and now my EMT-B certification.  I think a hybrid program can be done and I think it's best done by someone with a medical background (which you have).  However, in an earlier post you said you can't really be away 2-3 days at a time.  All of the Paramedic Hybrid programs I'm familiar with (PERCOM, Somewhat Lenoir Community College, NY Methodist etc) require you to have extensive skill sessions (4-7 days at a time, 3-4 times during your studies there)...This doesn't included other required clinical hours.  I know you say you do almost everything a Paramedic does...That's great.  I've met some incompetent doctors, paramedics, etc but, unfortunately you're not really going to find a bridge program that doesn't require those skill sessions.  You never know there MAY BE just a skill you haven't learned or perfected yet as an Intermediate that is covered in those sessions...That's the point in having a bridge program--to close the gap.  I've met LVN's who knew how to do a lot of what an RN can do but, they still learned something new when they transitioned into their RN studies.  I'm a huge fan of Hybrid programs...It allows those of us who must work full-time to still accomplish our goals but just know any legit bridge program will require hours upon hours of skill sessions/clinical training.  You'll need more than 2-3 days off from the job that pays the bulk of your bills to complete this training.  I hope you find something that works for you!



I can be away several times but just not every week.


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## VirginiaEMT (Aug 10, 2012)

perimedic said:


> Actually, according to NREMT, the Commonwealth of Virginia, and the paramedics I work with, we are medics.  And all the career paramedics I work with do not treat me as a second-class citizen.  My I-99 course was paramedic-based. As VirginiaEMT stated, with the exception of a surgical crich, we have the exact same SOP that paramedics do (and in some areas, with additional training, our individual OMDs will allow surgical crichs).  Furthermore, I-99s are so valuable to Virginia that they are not going to phase them out when they are nationally replaced by AEMTs;  they will remain a valid certification above AEMT.  There ARE some places in VA where a paramedic earns more, but in a state served by a huge population of volunteers, the additional year of school and $3000 in tuition/books is prohibitive.
> 
> That said, the Medical College of Georgia is a major training facility for federal medics and is planning to offer on-line paramedic courses, according to my paramedic training coordinator.  One will have to travel there to demonstrate practical skills sometime in the process.  I was told that if I did decide to move to paramedic, that could be an option (as I'm an operational employee on 24-hour emergency call nation-wide and school attendance is difficult).



You are correct and we are considered medics in this area and can perform surgical crichs too. This is agency based.. The paramedics that I run with treat me as an equal too. 

VCU has a good paramedic school too but you must do ALL of your clinicals at MCV and these places are 2 hours from my house. I would like to find a hybrid program that would allow me to do my hospital clinicals at a local hospital that they have contracted with. Lenoir College does this. I can go away several times for a few days each if necessary because I work for myself but I can't commit to driving to MCV 2 times a week and then driving all of the way to Richmond for my hospital time.


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