# Man Helps Family Trapped In Crash, Gets Billed $143 By First Responders



## MMiz (Jun 24, 2016)

ELK GROVE (CBS13) — A man who helped a family trapped a crash got a bill in the mail for his unselfish act.

Paramedics sent him the first-responder fee of nearly $150 after he says they only checked his pulse and gave him a bottle of water.

Read more!


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## squirrel15 (Jun 24, 2016)

Welcome to California, you're breathing our air. Please pay $500 and pass go, do not collect $200.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 24, 2016)

A decent amount of companies in CA are starting to charge for non transport calls/AMA.


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## Carlos Danger (Jun 24, 2016)

DesertMedic66 said:


> A decent amount of companies in CA are starting to charge for non transport calls/AMA.



I've never understood how they get away with billing a person for a service that the person didn't even ask for. 

That's kind of like a plumber showing up to your house unsolicited, knocking on your door, and asking if you need any plumbing work done, and you say "no thank you" and he leaves, and then a few days later you get a bill in the mail for a service call.


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 24, 2016)

Don't give your info. Problem solved. 

Greed is taking over.


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 24, 2016)

Is it a crime to give false info to medics? 
Sorry I don't have ID... Can't refuse transport... Can't bill.


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## MonkeyArrow (Jun 24, 2016)

What stops anyone from just walking away from the ambulance that they didn't call?


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## Carlos Danger (Jun 24, 2016)

MonkeyArrow said:


> What stops anyone from just walking away from the ambulance that they didn't call?



I think when EMS shows up on scene, they seem "official" and when they start asking questions, most people want to be cooperative. 

"Just let us check you out....take your VS and give you a bottle of water", the paramedic will say to the person who didn't request them. 

"Ok, sure" says the person.

"Also, let me get some info from you". Says the paramedic. "What's your name? Address? Phone number?'


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## Carlos Danger (Jun 24, 2016)

I have also seen cops give people a hard time for not letting EMS "check them out".


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## JORDAN89 (Jul 26, 2016)

MMiz said:


> ELK GROVE (CBS13) — A man who helped a family trapped a crash got a bill in the mail for his unselfish act.
> 
> Paramedics sent him the first-responder fee of nearly $150 after he says they only checked his pulse and gave him a bottle o





MMiz said:


> ELK GROVE (CBS13) — A man who helped a family trapped a crash got a bill in the mail for his unselfish act.
> 
> Paramedics sent him the first-responder fee of nearly $150 after he says they only checked his pulse and gave him a bottle of water.
> 
> Read more!


THAT'S LUDACRIS!!! CRAZZZY...


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## gotbeerz001 (Jul 27, 2016)

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## JORDAN89 (Jul 28, 2016)

lol


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## EMS HOT BOX (Apr 30, 2017)

I see from post #3 this sounds like a private for profit ambulance/ambulette shop. Any emergency care provider billing a hard working born & raised taxpaying American citizen for an AMA should be reported to the State Health Department. From 2008 until President Donald John Trump ran him out of town in 2016 dubious American business interest in the health care industry that dovetailed the Obamacare criminal enterprise have reaped the harvest through Barry's privatization scam.


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## Akulahawk (Apr 30, 2017)

EMS HOT BOX said:


> I see from post #3 this sounds like a private for profit ambulance/ambulette shop. Any emergency care provider billing a hard working born & raised taxpaying American citizen for an AMA should be reported to the State Health Department. From 2008 until President Donald John Trump ran him out of town in 2016 dubious American business interest in the health care industry that dovetailed the Obamacare criminal enterprise have reaped the harvest through Barry's privatization scam.


I have a couple of points to make. First, if you actually followed the link that's in the first post of this thread, you might get an idea, perhaps an inkling, that the entity involved is NOT a private/for profit ambulance/ambulette shop. "Cosumnes Community Services District" has a Fire Department. The CCSD is an independent special district in California that provides, in this case, Parks & Rec services as well as Fire and EMS services. Second, the "First Responder Fee" is allowed by California Health and Safety Code 13916 and there are several entities that implemented this fee and they include MUNICIPALITIES and INDEPENDENT SPECIAL DISTRICTS that include those Districts that provide a single service (Fire/EMS) or do multiple services as the CCSD does. Third, if you had looked further/deeper into the issue, as I have done (took me all of 5 minutes to learn this stuff), you would have quickly determined that the underlying H&S code has been in place for _at least_ 11 years and this very much predates anything Obamacare/Affordable Healthcare Act and therefore the code, and fees allowed by the code, has nothing to do with the ACA. 

How do I know about the CCSD? I've lived in the region for almost 20 years and have seen how that particular CSD has changed and grown, as have several of the FPD's around here. Just for the record, I have never been a member or employee of the Cosumnes Community Services District, or its predecessor agencies/districts in any capacity. I have worked for an independent special district (that can provide almost _all_ municipal services) for over 10 years. I'm well aware of the municipal powers an ISD can have. My former employer chooses not to provide Fire/EMS services as it's quite expensive and there's a FPD that provides those services at a much lower cost to their area. I'm an ED RN and my ED receives ambulances from all the major providers of 911 EMS service, the CCSD Fire Department being one of them. 

Lastly, it is very difficult to read and parse your posts as they appear to contain run-on sentences and train of thought writing that barely make sense.


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## GMCmedic (Apr 30, 2017)

We write refusal reports for every "patient". If its not obvious who requested the ambulance, ill typically ask. It gets documented if someone did or didnt and those that didnt will not get a bill. 

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## Jim37F (Apr 30, 2017)

There's municipal fire departments in my area that even though are tax funded, run 80-90% EMS calls, every patient gets charged an ALS Assessment fee, even if there's no transport.


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## RocketMedic (May 6, 2017)

I actually think that these fees are sensible. It costs time, _my_ time, resources and fuel to take a rig out of service to assess someone, and there is a certain amount of liability we are exposed to with our field diagnosis, even if the patient refuses care or transport. Sure, Grandma falling 8x/night and "only" needing a hand up might seem cheap, but the 911, _emergency_ medical system is not a substitute for home care or convenience. I think a reasonable middle ground would be charging people who do not have a reasonably-detectable medical complaint for calling. 

In the event of MVCs, I do not think that bills should be issued.


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## Bullets (May 20, 2017)

My service bills 300 dollars for an RMA.....

In regards to billing for a service that wasnt requested, mainly on MVCs, its very simple. If no one has any complaints, then no one gets a bill, because no one get assessed. We chart it up as a cancel.


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## StCEMT (May 20, 2017)

I could see billing the unresponsive diabetic that gets D10 or refusals that receive some treatment. Billing the guy in the article? Screw that.


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## Chimpie (May 21, 2017)

Bullets said:


> My service bills 300 dollars for an RMA.....
> 
> In regards to billing for a service that wasnt requested, mainly on MVCs, its very simple. If no one has any complaints, then no one gets a bill, because no one get assessed. We chart it up as a cancel.


So scenario: Driver 1 hits a tree. Witness 1 drives up, calls 911. Rescue 1 arrives and chats with Driver. Driver explains that he's lightheaded, and doesn't feel well. Medic grabs a quick set of vitals and suggests he go to the ED. Driver refuses. 

You'd bill the driver?

Does your service receive any tax revenue?


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## Bullets (May 21, 2017)

Chimpie said:


> So scenario: Driver 1 hits a tree. Witness 1 drives up, calls 911. Rescue 1 arrives and chats with Driver. Driver explains that he's lightheaded, and doesn't feel well. Medic grabs a quick set of vitals and suggests he go to the ED. Driver refuses.
> 
> You'd bill the driver?
> 
> Does your service receive any tax revenue?


First, EMS asks driver 1 if he wants to be evaluated. If he has a complaint, we get a signature saying we spoke to you, offered our service based on your expressed complaint, and you refused  Yes, hes getting a bill

No, we get no direct tax revenue


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## DesertMedic66 (May 21, 2017)

Chimpie said:


> So scenario: Driver 1 hits a tree. Witness 1 drives up, calls 911. Rescue 1 arrives and chats with Driver. Driver explains that he's lightheaded, and doesn't feel well. Medic grabs a quick set of vitals and suggests he go to the ED. Driver refuses.
> 
> You'd bill the driver?
> 
> Does your service receive any tax revenue?


For my company, no we would not bill we only bill on refusals/AMAs if there was an ALS intervention. So when we have dehydrated patients who AMA after an IV get billed.


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