# Choking diner dies after paramedic refuses to treat him 'for safety reasons'



## ffemt8978 (Jul 24, 2010)

> A choking diner died after a paramedic refused treatment because he feared for his own safety.
> ...
> When an  ambulance arrived, the paramedic told the restaurant manager in  Manchester he wouldn't go inside - because Mr Honey, 65, was  'aggressive'.


 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-paramedic-refuses-treat-safety-reasons.html


----------



## Aidey (Jul 24, 2010)

The paramedic made a judgment call, and unfortunately this is sometimes what happens. It sounds like there was plenty of witnesses that the friend (Mr. Honey) was being aggressive and not letting people near the patient. I guess the question is, would he have acted the same way towards the paramedics? Personally, I don't like to play canary to find out. I think the friend's age is also fairly immaterial; people want to dismiss him as a threat because he was 70, but I've definitely encountered some 70 year olds I would not want to tangle with. 

Some of the comments are pretty interesting;



> I certainly would NOT want this man coming to my aid. What a terrible  thing to vow to save lives and only concern for your own! This man  should NOT be in public safety!



Why is it that people seem to think public safety personnel automatically have to give up everything to do their jobs?


----------



## abuan (Jul 24, 2010)

BSI, Scene safe...'nough said.


----------



## reaper (Jul 24, 2010)

Scene size up?

 How can he tell that the scene is unsafe from the drunk 70 year old, until he actually finds out? Attempt to render care, if the man is aggressive towards you, then back out.


----------



## Aidey (Jul 24, 2010)

The article doesn't go into enough detail to know what he based his decision on. He could have based it off of the reports of the staff and bystanders, or he may have walked inside seen the man yelling and screaming and stopped there. We just don't have that info.


----------



## rescue99 (Jul 24, 2010)

ffemt8978 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-paramedic-refuses-treat-safety-reasons.html



Not a patron nor employee even attempted to render 999 assisted CPR...got love it. There are no innocents in this scenario exept the crew. They at least followed policy.....weenie crew such as they are. I believe my 5'4 could sit Mr. Honey's drunken 70 year old butt on the floor with little effort.


----------



## Aidey (Jul 24, 2010)

Staff did call 999; 



> manager Lauren Littlechild heard a plate and glass smash and saw Mr Kinder fighting for breath.  She said: 'I thought he was having an asthma attack but he got worse and we called an ambulance.
> 'I spoke to the paramedic and told him a man was struggling to breathe.
> 'The paramedic said an aggressive man was in the restaurant. I  told him the man was about 70 and that there was no threat. But he  insisted on waiting for the police.
> 'I just wanted him to get a bit closer and advise us what to do - but he still insisted on a police presence.'
> Miss Littlechild said Mr Honey had made it difficult for staff to get to Mr Kinder.


Upon re-reading I find it mildly amusing that she told the paramedic he was harmless, and then 2 sentences later states that he was making it difficult for staff to help. I take that as "Safe for someone else, just not me."


I still maintain there are 70 year olds I wouldn't tangle with. I work with someone in their late 60's who looks like he is in his mid 50s, and is a good 60lbs and 6 inches taller than me. Even if he was drunk I'm pretty sure he could kick my butt.

Edit: Oh, also. They were at a restaurant eating steak. Steak knives anyone? Again 70 or not....all it takes is one well aimed blow with a plate, wine bottle, knife etc.


----------



## Melclin (Jul 24, 2010)

I usually refuse to pass judgment on these matters. Even if it is accurately reported (it almost never is), you still can't really tell unless you were there.

That said, it does _kinda_ sound like he was being a bit of a weenie - to simply refuse without actually going and looking for himself...trying to negotiate from a distance. 



> I certainly would NOT want this man coming to my aid. What a terrible thing to vow to save lives and only concern for your own! This man should NOT be in public safety!



What the hell? What vow? And what an arse hole, having concern for his own life!


----------



## jjesusfreak01 (Jul 24, 2010)

Medics always retain the right to delay care until they believe the scene is safe enough. At worst this medic is a wuss. You really can't accuse them of anything else.


----------



## Bloom-IUEMT (Jul 28, 2010)

rescue99 said:


> I believe my 5'4 could sit Mr. Honey's drunken 70 year old butt on the floor with little effort.


 Depends, Epic Beard Man is 67 and I would not want to screw with him. 

http://www.break.com/fights/epic-beard-man-bus-fight.html


----------



## fortsmithman (Jul 28, 2010)

rescue99 said:


> I believe my 5'4 could sit Mr. Honey's drunken 70 year old butt on the floor with little effort.



Cuck Norris is 70 and I wouldn't want to tangle with him.


----------



## rescue99 (Jul 28, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> Cuck Norris is 70 and I wouldn't want to tangle with him.



^_^ True..Very True


----------



## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2010)

I think Epic beard man could take Chuck, if I recall he spent some time in Californias prisons and is a Marine Viet-Nam vet. That and in interview he did he is pretty far off his rocker.


----------



## jjesusfreak01 (Aug 6, 2010)

citizensoldierny said:


> I think Epic beard man could take Chuck, if I recall he spent some time in Californias prisons and is a Marine Viet-Nam vet. That and in interview he did he is pretty far off his rocker.



It has been often rumored that Epic Beard Man could take on Chuck Norris, though this has never been proven. Bruce Lee in fact killed Chuck Norris in one of their movies, but died a young unexplained death soon after.


----------



## AtlantaEMT (Aug 16, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> Cuck Norris is 70 and I wouldn't want to tangle with him.



But those two have something in common.
There is a picture of Chuck Norris, Epic Beard Man, and Hulk Hogan that explains why.  You'll have to google search it becuase it has a dirty word in it.



> I certainly would NOT want this man coming to my aid. What a terrible thing to vow to save lives and only concern for your own! This man should NOT be in public safety!



I didn't take a vow so I guess I'm cool to actually have concern for my own safety!  And if I took a vow I'd cross my fingers so I'd be wide open.


----------



## medic417 (Aug 16, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> Cuck Norris is 70 and I wouldn't want to tangle with him.



Who is "Cuck Norris"?  Is he Chucks cousin?  Illegitimate son?


----------



## slloth (Aug 27, 2010)

abuan said:


> BSI, Scene safe...'nough said.



x2

Haven't heard the paramedics side of it so couldn't speculate. 

This article may have been titled "Paramedic attempts CPR on drunk patient and gets knocked out by patients drunk friend" 

The we'd be asking why did he go in there if he felt unsafe?


----------



## 8jimi8 (Aug 27, 2010)

Bloom-IUEMT said:


> Depends, Epic Beard Man is 67 and I would not want to screw with him.
> 
> http://www.break.com/fights/epic-beard-man-bus-fight.html



Heavy hands on epic beard man!


----------

