# FF Parole Crews



## Fido198674 (Mar 16, 2017)

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...-firefighter-tj-oneill-takes-unlikely-journey

Hmm, what does everyone think about programs like this one? I think while it does alot of good im sure, that extra 1.5 million could really help other departments trying to hire NON-Convicts...


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 16, 2017)

CalFire has been using "con crews" for years now. They are house in a camp type area (so outside the normal jail). They are utilized for wild land fires and ground keeping/maintenance/painting of fire stations when not in use. 

I know after they get released some are hired by the fire department (not sure what their cut off as far as charges go).


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## Tigger (Mar 16, 2017)

Fido198674 said:


> http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...-firefighter-tj-oneill-takes-unlikely-journey
> 
> Hmm, what does everyone think about programs like this one? I think while it does alot of good im sure, that extra 1.5 million could really help other departments trying to hire NON-Convicts...


I imagine that the cost of funding hand crews is considerably less when prisoners are used. Sounds like a win.


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## Jim37F (Mar 16, 2017)

I found out that one of my ex-girlfriends ended up in state prison and joined an inmate camp crew and was fighting wildfires while I'm still chasing being picked up by a career department lol


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## Summit (Mar 16, 2017)

Jim37F said:


> I found out that one of my ex-girlfriends ended up in state prison and joined an inmate camp crew and was fighting wildfires while I'm still chasing being picked up by a career department lol


Well you could commit an appropriate offense and follow her route


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## NysEms2117 (Mar 16, 2017)

I am 100% all for it. As a parole officer you try and rehabilitate people to go from burden-> productive(on society). Now with that being said certain things need to be understood. *All* parolees are 100% convicted *felons* which obviously disqualifies them from certain jobs(Leo ect). Currently, literally earlier this morning, I'm working with one of my parolees on becoming an emt-B and asking around who will employ him(with references and what not in line). Everywhere that I know, parolees or even folks that have maxed out, cannot become paramedics(due to narcotics handeling). In my professional experience people will work harder and more effective at something they like. What I mean by that is if an individual says they want to be an emt, why should I say no, force him to work at a job he won't like and will probably skip. If it keeps those folks out of trouble, and gives them a way to make money while not harming anybody. Why not let them? There are also programs in most states called "work release" meaning they go out to state buildings/municipalities and paint/clean or file papers ect all while supervised. These offenders are LOW RISK offenders, meaning they come out of a risk assessment and are classified as low.


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## CALEMT (Mar 16, 2017)

All I know is they did the work that us engine slugs hated. So that was nice.


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## johnrsemt (Mar 21, 2017)

I have worked with prisoner crews from Utah State Prisons; both on wild fire lines and on sandbagging lines.   They work their butts off.   Eating sandwiches while filling sandbags or digging lines.
Odd thing is when they are doing anything but Wildland fires they are supposed to go back to the prison at night.  One crew left sandbag area at midnight and was back at 0400.  Different guards but same prisoners.


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## StCEMT (Mar 21, 2017)

Fido198674 said:


> http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...-firefighter-tj-oneill-takes-unlikely-journey
> 
> Hmm, what does everyone think about programs like this one? I think while it does alot of good im sure, that extra 1.5 million could really help other departments trying to hire NON-Convicts...


1.5 million for a crew, not a single individual. That doesn't sound all that unreasonable. I'd rather spend money on that and 1. Not spend money on their incarceration and 2. See some kind of positive return on that investment. Sounds like a win win.


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## terrible one (Mar 21, 2017)

Tigger said:


> I imagine that the cost of funding hand crews is considerably less when prisoners are used. Sounds like a win.



Interestingly enough inmate crews are typically the second most expensive thing on campaign fires (large extended fires) behind air aviation. 

The reason is due to the COs (correctional officer's salaries). On a large fire lasting a couple weeks COs can earn upwards of $50k. And their job is relatively easy when compared to the other assignments on a large fire. 

As CALEMT stated they do a lot of the dirty work that other engine crews don't typically want to do. The majority of the inmates work much harder and longer than other crews without issues as well. 

So they may be worth the investment. I know I'd rather low level offenders be out working and learning a skill than sitting a jail cell learning how to become a better criminal.


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## Tigger (Mar 22, 2017)

terrible one said:


> Interestingly enough inmate crews are typically the second most expensive thing on campaign fires (large extended fires) behind air aviation.
> 
> The reason is due to the COs (correctional officer's salaries). On a large fire lasting a couple weeks COs can earn upwards of $50k. And their job is relatively easy when compared to the other assignments on a large fire.
> 
> ...


Hmm no kidding. How many COs do they bring?


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## NysEms2117 (Mar 22, 2017)

Tigger said:


> Hmm no kidding. How many COs do they bring?


Work release crews in NYS are between a 1:8 - a 1:15 ratio, depending on the risk level of the group(charges, recidivism, violence, all that fun criminal justice stuff)
However coincidentally they usually end up being a 2:8 ratio because you need 2 C.O's operating any kind of offender transport vehicle. Good thing NY planned it out huh!


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## CALEMT (Mar 22, 2017)

Tigger said:


> Hmm no kidding. How many COs do they bring?



I don't know off the top of my head, but when I was a seasonal we were jealous. They literally just hang out in base camp, they don't go out on the fire because... training... Nys's sounds right but I want to say they bring more than 1... if I had to guess around 4 sounds about right.


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## terrible one (Mar 22, 2017)

Tigger said:


> Hmm no kidding. How many COs do they bring?



I believe it's 2 COs for one inmate bus. The inmate crew is comprised of one captain for 17 inmates for cal fire. They are also paid portal to portal, so as soon as they are dispatched until they return. Inmate crews are usually they're the longest as well.


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## EMS HOT BOX (Apr 29, 2017)

Methinks why not? Just as long as the candidates don't preempt guys on existing list I'm all for positive rehab, not just rehab for rehabs sake like the mooks who sit around halfway houses all day playing video games for the rest of their miserable existences on the hard working taxpayers dime. Besides couldn't be any worst then the crooks EMS already employs stealing anything they can get their paws on be it from the bus, the ER supply room or even hot ticket items like the surgical scrubs off the racks on the surgical floors. 90% of the wares in the average EMS/vollie jump kits are EMS stuff. We won't talk about their ever loving buff mobiles, unauthorized radios, lights & sirens with the missing serial number plates.


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## RocketMedic (May 10, 2017)

EMS HOT BOX said:


> Methinks why not? Just as long as the candidates don't preempt guys on existing list I'm all for positive rehab, not just rehab for rehabs sake like the mooks who sit around halfway houses all day playing video games for the rest of their miserable existences on the hard working taxpayers dime. Besides couldn't be any worst then the crooks EMS already employs stealing anything they can get their paws on be it from the bus, the ER supply room or even hot ticket items like the surgical scrubs off the racks on the surgical floors. 90% of the wares in the average EMS/vollie jump kits are EMS stuff. We won't talk about their ever loving buff mobiles, unauthorized radios, lights & sirens with the missing serial number plates.



You have literally no idea what you are typing, do you?


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## Handsome Robb (May 11, 2017)

I believe this article is talking about funding a crew staffed by Parolees, which means they're no longer in custody this don't require COs. 



RocketMedic said:


> You have literally no idea what you are typing, do you?



Absolutely none. 


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## DrParasite (May 11, 2017)

Handsome Robb said:


> I believe this article is talking about funding a crew staffed by Parolees, which means they're no longer in custody this don't require COs


No, they are still prisoners, and after they are done, they go back to the prison, under the the custody of the COs


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## SunshineCamo (May 11, 2017)

I don't see a problem. I think rehab is one of the most important (and often ignored) parts of the system. If they're putting in good work, and maybe getting future job skills then I'm all for it. I'm not a FF so I'm not familar, can you get hired anywhere as a convict?


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## DesertMedic66 (May 11, 2017)

SunshineCamo said:


> I don't see a problem. I think rehab is one of the most important (and often ignored) parts of the system. If they're putting in good work, and maybe getting future job skills then I'm all for it. I'm not a FF so I'm not familar, can you get hired anywhere as a convict?


No. Our city fire departments are very strict on who they will hire and any sort of criminal offense especially one where you received jail/prison time is an automatic disqualification.


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## Handsome Robb (May 11, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> No, they are still prisoners, and after they are done, they go back to the prison, under the the custody of the COs



If they're part of an inmate crew, yes, you're correct. 

This story is about an ex-con who was on an inmate crew then made parole and now works as a Wildland FF. 

It then goes on to talk about seeking funding for a *parolee* hand crew. Which means they've made parole and are now out of prison thus no requirement for a CO as part of the crew. They're no longer in custody if they're a parolee. 


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## NysEms2117 (May 11, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> No, they are still prisoners, and after they are done, they go back to the prison, under the the custody of the COs


thats not parole then . @Handsome Robb said the bit i was going to say as well


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## DrParasite (May 11, 2017)

If it's a paroolee crew, why does the dept of corrections need to be involved?  And by that I mean, prisoners are cheaper, and parolees could try to get hired, if they can pass the background check


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## Handsome Robb (May 11, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> If it's a paroolee crew, why does the dept of corrections need to be involved?  And by that I mean, prisoners are cheaper, and parolees could try to get hired, if they can pass the background check



They don't? I never said they did...

The article talks about DOC crews as well and how the prisoners involved in DOC crews do better than those who just sit in prison serving their time. Right after it mentions asking for a budget for parolee crews.

I'm assuming the DOC may be involved as it could potentially be a part of Parole & Probation a la @NysEms2117

You wouldn't need COs to supervise the team but parolees do still have to check in, making it part of P&P could streamline that process. Doesn't mean a P&P officer has to be present, just that it's part of that budget and has oversight from that department. That's pure speculation though at this point since the article didn't go into detail as to who they were asking to provide the money. 


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## NysEms2117 (May 11, 2017)

Hey uhm dr parasite. I work for NYSDOCCS, in the capacity of a state parole officer. New York State Department of CORRECTIONS and Community Supervision. When people are on parole, they still get watched and observed... If I had a caseload and 8 people worked the same shift in the same place, would it make logical sense to go there to do 8 work visits(since that's part of our job description, but I'm sure you knew that) at once. 


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## NUEMT (May 31, 2017)

Saw a briefing from a chief one time

"You are all firefighters here....treated as men first..... Firefighters second.....inmates if we have to"


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