# The real story behind the 12 week medic McCook NE



## CMCSNRP (Mar 3, 2014)

I recently read a forum about a 12 week paramedic program in McCook Nebraska and the replies that I saw we're shocking. "EMS Professionals" ridiculing a program that they have never attended and know nothing about. I attended McCook's accelerated paramedic program and one thing that I can tell you for certain is that it is not for the faint of heart. Not everyone will be cut out for a program like this because it is very fast paced and you have to be self motivated. However if you have the stones to make the grades it can be an awesome way to achieve your goals. The didactic portion is 12 weeks, after that you go back to where you live and work with your department or a department of your choosing to finish your clinical hours. The required hours are 400 I believe, but with everything that is required of you most people end up having closer to 800 or more. I also left the program with ACLS, PALS, AMLS, and PHTLS. The days were long, the schooling was tough, but I passed with a 4.0 was able to establish myself at a level 1 trauma center and I am so thankful to Kathy Dernovich, and Bob Molcyk for everything that they do. Kathy likes to bolster that the program does not need defending because people talk trash and their rosters are still full. However, EMS as a profession is changing and not everybody needs a two year program. Many can be successful without dragging it out. So ladies and gentlemen, before you post your comments and tell me how my associates degree is worth less than your associates degree because I did not spend two years on mine, all I will ask is that you keep the comments professional. It wasn't easy to accomplish what I did, but I was successful and so were many others.


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## Medic Tim (Mar 3, 2014)

So you got an ems associates degree from this 3-5 month program?


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## UnkiEMT (Mar 3, 2014)

You realize you sound like a shill, right?

I don't know if you are, nor do I particularly care, but somewhere around when you start listing off specific people by first and last name, I stopped giving any weight to your arguments.

That plus the fact that you registered to make two posts, both of them defending the same program.

Yeah, I don't trust you.


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 3, 2014)

If you want the AAS you have to have basic prerequisites. Math, Psych, English, A&P. The course  makes up for the rest. It is a great program. I understand that people will probably always butt heads on the topic however, it doesn't take much to be a :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty medic and there were plenty of bad medics before accelerated programs. What nobody seems to grasp is that the 12 weeks is JUST THE BOOK & LAB PORTION. You still have to do clinicals.


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## MrJones (Mar 3, 2014)

I don't agree with the concept and wouldn't personally enroll in a 12 week program, but in their defense they _are_ accredited by CAAHEP so they must be meeting at least the minimum requirements.


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## BoonDoc (Mar 3, 2014)

MrJones said:


> I don't agree with the concept and wouldn't personally enroll in a 12 week program, but in their defense they _are_ accredited by CAAHEP so they must be meeting at least the minimum requirements.



+1

The bottom line is that they are getting to sit the NREMT exam isn't it? Sure the Medic 1 paramedics in Seattle will have a much better programme but they sit the NREMT exam too don't they?

I wouldn't choose to do a 12 week programme myself but then again I am far too lazy to not have any time off in three months.


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## chaz90 (Mar 3, 2014)

BoonDoc said:


> +1
> 
> The bottom line is that they are getting to sit the NREMT exam isn't it? Sure the Medic 1 paramedics in Seattle will have a much better programme but they sit the NREMT exam too don't they?
> 
> I wouldn't choose to do a 12 week programme myself but then again I am far too lazy to not have any time off in three months.



The bottom line we're arguing is that the current standards are far too low. Just because the NREMT allows someone to take a doesn't mean it is appropriate. NREMT certification is nothing more than a bare minimum, and the fact that people are able to fly through the didactic portion of a paramedic "education" in 12 weeks is just more evidence for that point.


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## Medic Tim (Mar 3, 2014)

BoonDoc said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The nremt tests for minimum competency. I think we should be striving for much more. I get a lot of flak because I am a US medic working in Canada . I went through a very good and respected program. It was deemed equivalent to Canadian standards ( with some extra work on my part) Yet I am judged by these boot camp programs. It isn't just other countries that judge us it is other medical professions. Whenever I hear of these programs the first thing that come to mind is "ambulance drivers" . I can't wait for the day when that changes to clinician.


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## BoonDoc (Mar 3, 2014)

Hi Chaz and Tim,

I agreed completely. Minimum is not the best option. 

In the UK Ambulance Technicians have to have 750 hours of clinical placements. The followon Paramedic programme also requires 750 hours.

Therefore UK Paramedics have at least 1500 hours and two years of training before they can register. 

Is this something that you would suggest for NREMT Paramedics?


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## Angel (Mar 3, 2014)

people who want to get by doing the BARE MINIMUM says a lot about the type of person they are and the type of medic they will be. 
I will never understand why people are so content to be lazy, that mindset it why EMS is a trade and not a career.


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## mycrofft (Mar 3, 2014)

*Having lived in NE (Bellevue, Lincoln and Omaha)*

I see the impetus for seeding more techs in NEbraska because the rural ("Outstate") service can be very thin.

However, they also need to make sure adequate control and infrastructure exist to allow safe and prudent practice. A paramedic with perfect grades and able to start a central line in a moving vehicle on railroad tracks blindfolded is performing assault and aggravated battery (or murder) unless he or she is part of an accredited EMS system.

If the Associate Degree program meets standards and graduates meet all criteria, fine. But they will also/still need a system to work within.

OP, how are things back there? More hospitals opening outside Lincoln/Omaha?


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 3, 2014)

So how do you get an AS with 4 gen ed classes and an accelerated paramedic program? How does that work? Where's the supporting sciences? Bio, chem, micro are three important ones.


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## BoonDoc (Mar 3, 2014)

So why attack the 12 week course? Why not change the minimum requirement? 

Are these 12 week wonders not getting jobs? 

Aren't these newby medics working under a senior medic for the first 120 hours anyway? 

Military medics get the very basic fighting skills and medical skills to be proficient but their true training starts once they are at their units. Isn't paramedic training the same? They need the minimum standard and then the get 20 years of clinical experience as they work?


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 3, 2014)

That is the exact wrong attitude. Why is it that many countries around the world require a degree to work on an ambulance, often with a lower scope of practice than American paramedics?

My FTO time for my agency after having my certification was ~240 hours. That time is for learning the system and operations, not for learning how to do the job and to learn the base knowledge.


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## mycrofft (Mar 3, 2014)

McCook CC's page about it:

http://www.mpcc.edu/health-occupations/accelerated-paramedic-training
Be sure to read the materials at the very end of the application section.

I'm sending for a copy of the curriculum.

A Google shows this is not a new curriculum and not a new subject to EMTLIFE either. 

I am in favor of cutting away deadwood (like the week we spent learning to make beds and wear uniforms and read diet slips/check meals at bedside in a baccalaureate-aimed nursing program). I am not in favor of turning out disoriented medical techs. The absence of related community issues after years of this program are in its favor.

PS: how long does it take to produce a military medic or med tech?


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## Medic Tim (Mar 3, 2014)

BoonDoc said:


> So why attack the 12 week course? Why not change the minimum requirement?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The problem with experience is that it is only as good as your experience. I am not knocking experience as it is very important. I just find it is relied on too much sometimes. In an ideal world the experience should build upon your base knowledge and continue to grow. This can be hard if you just did the bare minimum academically.  

There is a push for increased education but there is also an even harder push to keep the status quo or even lower it. 
A majority of ems providers in the US are volunteer  Emt with aprox 200 hours of training. ( in some states it is an elective course in high school) Communities and fire departments are scared of losing or having to pay for ems services as fewer people would be able to maintain or meet the requirements. 

There are also many places were ems is a minimum wage job. In other first world countries it is a true profession with excellent pay and respect .


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## BoonDoc (Mar 3, 2014)

Fair one, mate. 

I guess it is different here in the EU where paramedics have a career. Irish Paramedics make €35k and Advanced Paramedics make €55k. In the UK it is a bit lower but still able to live well and buy a home and car. 

A lot of UK paramedics are choosing to quite the NHS and work in the Industry for twice the pay. Not a bad way to go.

Aren't there similar oil, gas and security jobs for US and Canadian Paramedics?


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## Medic Tim (Mar 3, 2014)

BoonDoc said:


> Fair one, mate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Pay can greatly vary. My first ems job was in Maine (USA )I made 7.50 an hour (2007) My first job in Canada as a BLS medic I started at 18 an hour. The starting pay is now 25 or so. In other parts of Canada it can e as high as 30-35. As an advanced care medic you can make a bit more. 
I work in a medical clinic in the northern Canadian oil fields . An advanced medic usually clears 120+k a year as a base salary plus benefits, flights and expenses. We are usually in the same pay band as RNs.


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## sir.shocksalot (Mar 3, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> The required hours are 400 I believe, but with everything that is required of you most people end up having closer to 800 or more.



According to their website they have 430 required clinical hours. My internship alone was more than the total number of clinical hours required by this program. Most of us really object to programs like this because our current education is already woefully short. The last thing we need is to accelerate and cut out parts of our education that is already way too short.

The argument that everyone takes the same test is trite. NREMT is the bare minimum to certify someone as a technician, regardless of the cute little title changes they make. Understanding the underlying mechanisms of physiology and disease and how they apply to what we do are what begins to change us from technicians to clinicians. You can't teach or learn that in a 12 week didactic program, or a 4 month one (as my program was), or even 10 months. Paramedic needs to turn into a 2 year long process if we want to move forward as a profession.


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## mycrofft (Mar 3, 2014)

The tail end of their application online:

AND I QUOTE:

"Upon completion of the in-class (didactic) studies, students are required to complete a _*minimum of 230 hours in a Clinical environment and 200 hours of Field training*_. Once successful completion of all three training components, the student will then be eligible to sit for the National Registry Paramedic Exam.
Clinical/Field Training components_* are not part of the 12-week Accelerated Paramedic program*_ at McCook Community College. Clinical/field training placement is the decision of the students. Students are encouraged to use our clinical training facilities and field service affiliations to complete their training. If a student opts to return home to complete their clinical/field training the college will work diligently with their chosen affiliations to attain training contracts, but there are no guarantees these agreements can be secured.


Read more: http://www.mpcc.edu/health-occupations/accelerated-paramedic-training#ixzz2uwWM8ihh"


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 4, 2014)

Psychology, Biology, A&P 1&2, English Comp 1&2, Algebra, EMT, etc. were taken before the Medic program. The curriculum consisted of Intro to Paramedicine, Paramedic Pharmacology, Airway Management, Patient Assessment, Shock Resuscitation/Trauma, Medical Emergencies 1, Medical Emergencies 2, Cardiology, Special Considerations , Operations/Putting it all together, and my clinical/field practicum. I have a total of 56 credit hours, 36 from the program including AMLS, PHTLS, ACLS, PALS upon completion. That being said, I posted the thread not because I wanted to tell people how to circumvent the system but because I am satisfied with the education that I received from my paramedic program. I can certainly tell you all that the training was rigorous and there was no BARE MINIMUM anything. That being said, my Registry number starts with a P and I have been successful in this field thus far. On the subject of "protocol monkeys" I would remind everyone who practices ALS interventions that you are working under a physician's medical license. That doesn't mean don't think for yourself, but protocols are guidelines to follow. I suppose I am an anomaly because I believe in camaraderie which is sorely lacking in our profession. There is a name for people with egos bigger than their scope of practice, Paragod.


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 4, 2014)

In addition I can tell you that I sunk a lot more than 12 weeks in to finishing paramedic. That was classroom. I easily doubled the amount of required contact hours also because of what was required in patient contacts.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 6, 2014)

Angel said:


> that mindset it why EMS is a trade and not a career.



Trades are a career.  I know of countless plumbers, carpenters, electricians, mechanics, and welders who are tradespeople who have made a lifelong career of their trade.  Maybe another word might be used to describe EMS in the USA.


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## Tigger (Mar 6, 2014)

fortsmithman said:


> Trades are a career.  I know of countless plumbers, carpenters, electricians, mechanics, and welders who are tradespeople who have made a lifelong career of their trade.  Maybe another word might be used to describe EMS in the USA.



I agree, EMS is certainly a career. It is not a profession, however.


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 6, 2014)

Tigger said:


> I agree, EMS is certainly a career. It is not a profession, however.




And there's a big difference.


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## NomadicMedic (Mar 6, 2014)

Disagree. Paramedicine, as it's structured now, is nothing more than a trade. It's vocational education. That is: "The 1990 Perkins Act defines vocational education as "organized educational programs offering a sequence of courses which are directly related to the preparation of individuals in paid or unpaid employment in current or emerging occupations requiring other than a baccalaureate or advanced degree."



Sounds like a paramedic program, doesn't it? 



There is nothing wrong with being a skilled tradesman. Just ask any welder, electrician or steam fitter. 



If you want to move into a professional healthcare position, get a real education and move out of paramedicine.


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## medicdan (Mar 6, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> Psychology, Biology, A&P 1&2, English Comp 1&2, Algebra, EMT, etc. were taken before the Medic program. The curriculum consisted of Intro to Paramedicine, Paramedic Pharmacology, Airway Management, Patient Assessment, Shock Resuscitation/Trauma, Medical Emergencies 1, Medical Emergencies 2, Cardiology, Special Considerations , Operations/Putting it all together, and my clinical/field practicum. I have a total of 56 credit hours, 36 from the program including AMLS, PHTLS, ACLS, PALS upon completion. That being said, I posted the thread not because I wanted to tell people how to circumvent the system but because I am satisfied with the education that I received from my paramedic program. I can certainly tell you all that the training was rigorous and there was no BARE MINIMUM anything. That being said, my Registry number starts with a P and I have been successful in this field thus far. On the subject of "protocol monkeys" I would remind everyone who practices ALS interventions that you are working under a physician's medical license. That doesn't mean don't think for yourself, but protocols are guidelines to follow.



I'm curious how this program taught or developed affective domain. You've told us how they shove didactic information down your throat, tell how you were encouraged to develop as a provider, utilize team leadership skills and how they encouraged personal growth.


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## MrJones (Mar 6, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> ...On the subject of "protocol monkeys" I would remind everyone who practices ALS interventions that you are working under a physician's medical license.



_You_ may be working under a physician's medical license, but I'm not. I'm working under my own license with oversight and supervision by a physician/medical director. I can guarantee you that, should I make a critical error, it's _my_ license that's at risk, not his.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 6, 2014)

MrJones said:


> _You_ may be working under a physician's medical license, but I'm not. I'm working under my own license with oversight and supervision by a physician/medical director. I can guarantee you that, should I make a critical error, it's _my_ license that's at risk, not his.



This. They provide oversight, but I'm the one risking my license if I do something stupid. The MD just has to go "well I made sure they were appropriately trained and knowledgeable, and I have signed off that they know what they're doing, so it's their deal"


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 6, 2014)

As an experienced EMS provider I went to school with other experienced providers. We did half a day of classroom and half a day of lab every day. I understand where the hostility comes from with accelerated/hybrid programs because I recently saw a thread about an online paramedic program. I am also concerned about the direction that education is taking however.. Programs such as the one that I attended are not intended for the 19 year old EMT who's ink has not had the chance to dry. I am fast approaching a decade in this field and where I lived previously Paramedics were few and far between. As a result of that medic programs locally had a lengthy waiting list. EMS professionals such as myself with experience in the field military/civilian alike are sometimes attracted to the option of streamlining their education. On the subject of team leadership, it was a small class so everyone practiced scenarios as team leader on a daily basis. On the subject of personal growth, obviously you have never been put in that situation so it would be hard to comprehend. But I can tell you the experience fundamentally changes you. Ask any recon marine, you would be downright astonished how much information you can absorb in a twelve week time period.


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 6, 2014)

And I agree, if I screw up it's MY license. Not theirs, and not yours so don't sweat it


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## MrJones (Mar 6, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> And I agree, if I screw up it's MY license. Not theirs, and not yours so don't sweat it



I don't sweat over whether or not you lose your license. I _do_ sweat over perpetuation of the fallacy that we operate under any license other than our own.


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## EMSComeLately (Mar 6, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> As an experienced EMS provider I went to school with other experienced providers. We did half a day of classroom and half a day of lab every day. I understand where the hostility comes from with accelerated/hybrid programs



The debate happens on every thread like this, so it is quite pointless.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone is different and not everyone has the same opportunities to attend the perfect program under the perfect situation.

I may have to consider non-traditional routes for future medic school as well since we may be somewhat "mobile" for the next couple years and I may not have the same chances as others to invest 18-24 months in a single geography to get my certification.  As it is, I'm staying in St. Louis to finish my EMT while my wife heads off to MI to start her new job.  I'd rather not be apart, but I'm not going to break off on my education with such a short time to go.

I'm certainly keeping my options open on the medic track and hopeful for something to work out to further my education.


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## fm_emt (Mar 6, 2014)

EMSComeLately said:


> The debate happens on every thread like this, so it is quite pointless.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, everyone is different and not everyone has the same opportunities to attend the perfect program under the perfect situation.



Agreed! If it wasn't for an "online/hybrid" program, I would not have accomplished what I have at this point. 6 years as an EMT-B and I just could not find a school/work situation that was feasible. I went overseas for a year to work, and got my AEMT through the percom program. I was sitting in an ER in Iraq for 6 x 12 hour shifts a week and had plenty of time to study, read, practice (with a physician standing right there next to me) and learn. It was great and allowed me to do something that I was struggling with otherwise.


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 6, 2014)

MrJones said:


> I _do_ sweat over perpetuation of the fallacy that we operate under any license other than our own.



How do you reconcile that idea with the reality that in most states a paramedic cannot legally perform any skill or administer any drug without the authorization of a physician?


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 6, 2014)

Halothane said:


> How do you reconcile that idea with the reality that in most states a paramedic cannot legally perform any skill or administer any drug without the authorization of a physician?



My point exactly.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 6, 2014)

DEmedic said:


> There is nothing wrong with being a skilled tradesman. Just ask any welder, electrician or steam fitter.



Except from what I have read those other trades make more money than a paramedic.


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## NomadicMedic (Mar 7, 2014)

fortsmithman said:


> Except from what I have read those other trades make more money than a paramedic.




Depends on where you work. What does pay have to do with it? It's about the education. Or lack of it.


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## BoonDoc (Mar 7, 2014)

fm_emt said:


> Agreed! If it wasn't for an "online/hybrid" program, I would not have accomplished what I have at this point. 6 years as an EMT-B and I just could not find a school/work situation that was feasible. I went overseas for a year to work, and got my AEMT through the percom program. I was sitting in an ER in Iraq for 6 x 12 hour shifts a week and had plenty of time to study, read, practice (with a physician standing right there next to me) and learn. It was great and allowed me to do something that I was struggling with otherwise.



This is a fantastic reason for the blended learning option. Few people can take a year off from work to earn their paramedic. 

The PERCOM seems to be the golden standard for training. It is not a "16 week short course" but fully a thorough programme. 

I read on here somewhere that it took two years for someone to get through paramedic.


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## MrJones (Mar 7, 2014)

Halothane said:


> How do you reconcile that idea with the reality that in most states a paramedic cannot legally perform any skill or administer any drug without the authorization of a physician?



Neither can a RN. Does that mean that a nurse operates under a physician's license? Or does it mean they operate under the oversight of a physician?

I know that, to some, my point is a small one of semantics. To me, though, the perpetuation of the fallacy that we operate "under a physician's license" is yet another of the many reasons that we struggle to be taken seriously as medical professionals. Especially when we're the ones doing the perpetuating.


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 7, 2014)

MrJones said:


> Neither can a RN.



No, but I don't see any nurses arguing otherwise. 




MrJones said:


> I know that, to some, my point is a small one of semantics. To me, though, the perpetuation of the fallacy that we operate "under a physician's license" is yet *another of the many reasons that we struggle to be taken seriously as medical professionals.* Especially when we're the ones doing the perpetuating.



I'm not sure why or how acknowledging the legal realities of what we do would contribute to us not being taken seriously. Most allied health professions require physician authorization to do most of what they do, and they are taken seriously. No state will allow a PA to practice without some level of physician oversight. NP's and CRNA's can in many states, but not all. Technically, RN's practice nursing autonomously, but still need medical orders to do most of what they do. Same with RRT's. Even professions that are 100% autonomous, like pharmacists and physical therapists, still must be consulted by a physician and are involved with patient care only so much as the attending wants them to be, in the hospital setting.


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## MrJones (Mar 7, 2014)

Halothane said:


> ...Most allied health professions require physician authorization to do most of what they do, and they are taken seriously. No state will allow a PA to practice without some level of physician oversight. NP's and CRNA's can in many states, but not all. Technically, RN's practice nursing autonomously, but still need medical orders to do most of what they do. Same with RRT's. Even professions that are 100% autonomous, like pharmacists and physical therapists, still must be consulted by a physician and are involved with patient care only so much as the attending wants them to be, in the hospital setting.



All true. But answer this - How many practitioners in those professions routinely state that they "...are working under a physician's medical license"? And this - Are _you_ working under a physician's license or are you working under your own license with oversight by a physician?


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 7, 2014)

MrJones said:


> All true. But answer this - How many practitioners in those professions routinely state that they "...are working under a physician's medical license"? And this - Are _you_ working under a physician's license or are you working under your own license with oversight by a physician?



I don't know that I've ever heard this topic discussed among anyone other than paramedics. RN's, RRT's, et al just know their legal status and don't make an issue of it.


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## NomadicMedic (Mar 7, 2014)

Halothane said:


> I don't know that I've ever heard this topic discussed among anyone other than paramedics. RN's, RRT's, et al just know their legal status and don't make an issue of it.




And even most paramedics don't make a issue of it. It's just a function of the job. We've got bigger issues in developing as a profession than who sets the conditions of care.


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## MrJones (Mar 7, 2014)

Halothane said:


> I don't know that I've ever heard this topic discussed among anyone other than paramedics. RN's, RRT's, et al just know their legal status and don't make an issue of it.



Exactly. And those in our profession that do make an issue of it typically get it wrong. And that's my point.


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 7, 2014)

MrJones said:


> Exactly. And those in our profession that do make an issue of it typically get it wrong. And that's my point.



I suppose I misunderstood, then. 

The only reason I even replied to your post was because, like DE said, we have much bigger fish to fry and I hate to see people get all wound up about this. 

The issue of "licensure vs. certification" and authority for practice is one that more than a few paramedics seem to get bogged down in, thinking it is an important issue that negatively affects the advancement of paramedicine, when it fact it does no such thing.


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## CMCSNRP (Mar 7, 2014)

MrJones said:


> Exactly. And those in our profession that do make an issue of it typically get it wrong. And that's my point.



So why make an issue of it? My comment was simply to say that my medical director is very involved with our EMS system. Do you have M.D. after your name or are you a paramedic? Paramedics operate on protocols, online/offline medical direction etc. I will just remind everyone that this conversation started with me posting a thread about an educational opportunity with an accredited accelerated program which MrJones and others were obviously not fans of because accelerated programs supposedly create ambulance drivers and protocol monkies. I believe that you sir feel the need to have the last word on everything. So I will simply say this, working under a physician's license/working under a physician's oversight are in fact the same thing because that licensed physician is your medical director and without that person if you were to perform ALS procedures in most states you would be prosecuted. My biggest issue with forums such as this is that the productive conversation gets pushed aside with criticism and hate mail. No matter how much discontent you spread about it people are still going to take this route to become paramedics because they have families, busy schedules, experience, a passion for the job, etc. As far as "being compared to 12 week wonders" as one person stated. Positive attitudes and solid patient care are going to be the only thing that changes healthcare's view on EMS as a whole. If the attitudes in EMS don't change, neither will the perception that Paramedics and EMT's are knuckle draggers.


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## MrJones (Mar 7, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> ...I will just remind everyone that this conversation started with me posting a thread about an educational opportunity with an accredited accelerated program which MrJones and others were obviously not fans of because accelerated programs supposedly create ambulance drivers and protocol monkies....



If you'll recall, I actually first participated in this thread to note that McCook's program is CAAHEP accredited - 



MrJones said:


> I don't agree with the concept and wouldn't personally enroll in a 12 week program, but in their defense they _are_ accredited by CAAHEP so they must be meeting at least the minimum requirements.



Nowhere did I say or imply that it creates "ambulance drivers and protocol monkies." Those are your words.

As far as the rest of your screed is concerned, I think it would be best to simply agree to disagree and move on.


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 7, 2014)

BoonDoc said:


> This is a fantastic reason for the blended learning option. Few people can take a year off from work to earn their paramedic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




PERCOM is far from the gold standard. They can't even teach their program in most states now....


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## triemal04 (Mar 7, 2014)

CMCSNRP said:


> As an experienced EMS provider I went to school with other experienced providers. We did half a day of classroom and half a day of lab every day. I understand where the hostility comes from with accelerated/hybrid programs because I recently saw a thread about an online paramedic program. I am also concerned about the direction that education is taking however.. Programs such as the one that I attended are not intended for the 19 year old EMT who's ink has not had the chance to dry. I am fast approaching a decade in this field and where I lived previously Paramedics were few and far between. As a result of that medic programs locally had a lengthy waiting list. EMS professionals such as myself with experience in the field military/civilian alike are sometimes attracted to the option of streamlining their education. On the subject of team leadership, it was a small class so everyone practiced scenarios as team leader on a daily basis. On the subject of personal growth, obviously you have never been put in that situation so it would be hard to comprehend. But I can tell you the experience fundamentally changes you. Ask any recon marine, you would be downright astonished how much information you can absorb in a twelve week time period.


Just imagine my eyes rolling right now...

I I I...me me me...good lord man!  Do you even listen to yourself?  This isn't about you or what your singular personal experience was with this course, it's about whether or not this is an appropriate course for everyone to take because...well...it's open to everyone with the money.

MAYBE you were able to be successful in this course...or maybe you just don't know that you weren't yet.  

MAYBE a highspeed ex-military and highly experienced EMT such as yourself just wanted to "streamline" your education...or maybe you just wanted a shortcut.

MAYBE that course can cram everything into a short period of time in such a way that the knowledge will be retained...or maybe a lot of that will be forgotten over the following year.

And so you know, 230 hours of clinical time spent in the hospital and 200 hours spent in the field is nothing to brag about.  All it is <drumroll> is the minimum that is required these days.


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## Tigger (Mar 7, 2014)

I've said this many times and I'll likely continue to say it, but hours are hours and that's how paramedic programs are measured. To say that "12 weeks is too short" makes no sense. If the same material is covered, how is it any different? 

I have no doubt that not everyone can learn on that sort of timeline, but not everyone learns well as a part time student either. It has nothing to do with previous EMS or healthcare experience either, but rather everything to do with individual learning styles. 

I got my BA on a "block" type schedule. Classes were Monday through Friday, nine to noon, five days a week. One class at a time for 18 sessions, and then you were done and on to the next one. Our psych department studied psych majors and knowledge retention over the course of a few years compared to similar schools and found that a) college students retain probably half of what they learn (common in all fields of education) and that b) students at this college retained information to the same degree as traditional semester plan students. 

The "accelerated and intensive model" is not in itself flawed as so many claim it to be, but rather not everyone student is a good fit for it, especially those that are drawn to the idea of being done quickly.


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