# EMT-P vs EMT-I



## folpak (Apr 24, 2010)

you and your partner are paramedics and hear a distress call over the radio from another EMS crew. Being near the area you responded priority 1. With out knowing what the situation you showed up to multiple Fire units, police and one other EMS from your company. Upon getting out of the vehicle 2 paramedic fire personal and one person from your company come running up to your unit with another stretcher and a patient who is backboarded and c collared. They state the pt was in the ambulance who was involved in a MVA and originally was hypoglycemic and bradycardic. You look at the monitor and pt's BPM are in the 80's and the PT is awake and talking to care providers. The  original care giver hops into the back of the ambulance with a third rider student and the PT then states i need you to drive P1 to the hospital right now and asks your partner to update to radio report that had been given to the hospital. You drive P1 to hospital and pt condition is never in jeopardy with a 2 minute transport. Pt care and report given to ER staff by original care giver and all is well.....until you are called into the office to find out the person providing care was only a EMT-I. Remember care possession was never transferred to your crew. Total on scene time was literally the time it takes to get a stretcher out of your truck then get back in and drive, also pt condition was never in compromised.


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## MrBrown (Apr 24, 2010)

Your poorly structured, gramatically defective rambling is horrendously challenging to understand.

I don't understand, something about other Ambulance Officers asking you to transport thier patient because thier vehicle got hit? 

Are you asking a question or telling a story or fishing for advice because this is really something that happened to you and everbody here on the internet is a medicolegal litigation expert? (paging EMSLaw)


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## TransportJockey (Apr 24, 2010)

Who has control of scene? What service is the intermediate with? Does his service have transportation priveleges? Did one of your crew ride in the back? If not why? 

If the intermediate could handle it, and the patient is ok, I don't see what's so bad about it... But I'm not entirely sure of the situation because you need to learn how to hit the enter button


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## folpak (Apr 24, 2010)

just wondering what would one do in this situation... seems pretty clear cut to me... been reading a lot on this forum. thought id join and start posting.. how do i go back to edit it? it wont let me now??


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## robbaN28 (Apr 24, 2010)

Doesn't your ambulance service have patches where it says if they are either EMT-Paramedic or EMT- Basic?


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## MrBrown (Apr 24, 2010)

What exactly is the problem?


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## folpak (Apr 24, 2010)

i suppose that they would... but did you take time to read the patches on everyones shirts?


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## TransportJockey (Apr 24, 2010)

Again, what service is the intermediate on? And why the problem with the intermediate running the call?


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## folpak (Apr 24, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> What exactly is the problem?



the problem is your crew transported and EMT-I with a Third rider and moved their PT to the hospital. Does the transport crew ever take responsibility of the PT? or does the original EMS provider keep responsibility at all times? food for thought.


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## folpak (Apr 24, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Who has control of scene?


 
Fire DPT would have control of scene. Fire also 2nds the request of the EMT-I to use your ambulance as a transport unit.


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## MrBrown (Apr 24, 2010)

folpak said:


> the problem is your crew transported and EMT-I with a Third rider and moved their PT to the hospital. Does the transport crew ever take responsibility of the PT? or does the original EMS provider keep responsibility at all times? food for thought.



You make no sense.

Logic would dictate the Ambulance Officer treating the patient had responsibility for care.

Again, are you telling us something or trying to ask a question or fishing for information because we're all medicolegal litigation experts or what?


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## TransportJockey (Apr 24, 2010)

Sounds like you were just a driver. The EMT remained in care of the patient. Sounds like nothing bad happened. I can see you getting reamed from your service though since they don't really make any money on that transport


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## folpak (Apr 24, 2010)

haha make thread dead... make a different one another day. sorry for the confusion. Will work on grammar for you next time


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## EMSLaw (Apr 24, 2010)

I"m also not sure what the question is. The EMTs who were originally transporting the patient can turn over care to a paramedic without any problem, because a paramedic is a higher level provider.  You can transfer care to a provider of same or higher level without any abandonment issues.

CA EMT-I (Basic) or EMT-Intermediate?


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## MrBrown (Apr 24, 2010)

Man you only took like an hour to answer the page, good thing nobody was dying or being given the Yellow Pages treatment eh?


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## EMSLaw (Apr 24, 2010)

I'm standing by at a lacrosse tournament.  I was probably handing out an emergency ice pack.


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## VentMedic (Apr 24, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> CA EMT-I (Basic) or EMT-Intermediate?


 
That would make a difference. A patient could have been "stable" prior to the MVA but the transfer could have changed things where a higher level of care needed to be done. 

Whose cardiac monitor was the patient on?

Did the Paramedics do their own assessment to determine condition of the patient?

Another thorough assessment should have been done post MVA just as if this patient was brand new to determine the appropriate level of care before assuming the lower level was adequate. 

As the higher level of care, some paperwork should have been generated to track this patient and as to what level of care was required. If it was determined there were no changes post MVA in the patient condition, the lower level could continue control of the patient. However, as the higher level of care on that truck, you can not say "not my patient" when the other providers are EMT-I (Intermediate or Basic) and students.

When ambulances transport for teams of higher level of care (Specialty, Flight), they still document all the billing info from us and do a short note of what they did such as assist with the isolette or stretcher. They did state who we are with *our credentials* and that their actual patient contact was none. 

Always know who is in your truck, providers and patients, whether it is your patient or not.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 24, 2010)

Am I going to have to be the first person to ask this?


Why didn't they use THEIR ambulance?


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## TransportJockey (Apr 24, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Am I going to have to be the first person to ask this?
> 
> 
> Why didn't they use THEIR ambulance?


Sounds like their rig was in an MVA so they needed another transport rig to get their original pt to the ED


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## Shishkabob (Apr 24, 2010)

Ah, just re-read that.

Ha.



With sentence structure like that, you can't blame me.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 24, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Ah, just re-read that.
> 
> Ha.
> 
> ...


Took me like 4 tries to even get an idea what he was talkign about


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## Veneficus (Apr 24, 2010)

*sounds to me like...*

Care was never transferred. If I understand correctly.

an ILS unit crashed with a patient. An ALS unit was sent to the scene to provide transport for the patient that was in the ILS unit prior to the MVA. 

The ILS crew then jumped into the ALS rig and rode in with the patient. The ALS crew basically drove and watched.

at some point the ILS crew made a statement to the ALS crew about what was wrong with the patient?



Is that a correct rendition of the events?


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## TransportJockey (Apr 24, 2010)

Since we don't know where the OP is, EMT-I could be BLS or ILS. I was assuming it was ILS. But other than that, Vene, that sounds about right


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## EMSLaw (Apr 24, 2010)

Isn't crew #1 effectively another group of patients at that point?  I would have thought they'd let ALS transport the patient and see to themselves and their rig.


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