# two companys same owners???? in texas



## 4x4kayak2112 (Jun 3, 2011)

Ok....so here it goes....

The company that i work for/hired on for (we can call them Company A) also has another company "B". under TDHs website they are listed under different address and different cert numbers, same people, same dispatch, in fact even the same building where A is ran out of. 

ok so like who care.....might be illegal??? but here what just makes my blood boil.  I work 50+ hrs at A and then at B they will make me work an extra 8-16hrs......after 40+ hrs i should get overtime.....but i dont with B even thou the profits are going into the same everything!!!!!!! it just :excl: me off!!! Oh yea and ive never filled out a W-2 for B!!!! 

If anyone knows what i can do just give me a shout


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## crazycajun (Jun 3, 2011)

4x4kayak2112 said:


> Ok....so here it goes....
> 
> The company that i work for/hired on for (we can call them Company A) also has another company "B". under TDHs website they are listed under different address and different cert numbers, same people, same dispatch, in fact even the same building where A is ran out of.
> 
> ...



You could dispute it with the labor board but it may cost you your job.


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## shfd739 (Jun 3, 2011)

Sounds like what I've heard before about some of these privates. They're probably also playing in the gray areas of Medicare but aren't a big enough to get medicare's attention for fraud. Where in Texas are you?

Are you wearing a uniform to match company B or still in a's gear and being told that you're working for B?


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## m0nster986 (Jun 4, 2011)

Do they share the same rigs, uniforms, employees, etc.? I am interested in finding out more about your situation. 

Privates are a shady business...


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## adamjh3 (Jun 4, 2011)

Do you get separate paychecks from A and B?


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## Anjel (Jun 4, 2011)

Here in michigan I know for a fact that is illegal. No I cant site the law. Sorrry but this is what we have.

My company is sisters with another company. 

We at "A" cant work for "B" because of that same thing. We would have to be paid OT because its the same owners. Completely seperate companies but since the owners is the same its a no go. 

You're being screwed.


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## usalsfyre (Jun 4, 2011)

Sounds like a Houston dialysis scam...

It's legal to own two different provider licenses. What your describing may, or may not be legal. How is company "B" licensed? Is it a DBA? Do you clock in separately? Without knowin specifics it's hard to say. 

If I were you I'd secure other employment muy pronto..,


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## ArcticKat (Jun 4, 2011)

Which company did you apply to work for?  That's the one you should be working at.  If you're told to work at the other, you didn't apply for employment there.  What happens if you get injured working for company B?  Are you covered?  You need to protect yourself.  I'm a private company owner and I hate hearing stories like this.  My philosophy is patients first, staff second, me last.  

I suggest you gather as much evidence as you can....quietly.  Find as many disgruntled ex-empolyees as you can, and report the owners to the authorities.  The more complaints they get the better, if you're standing alone you're screwed.


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## 4x4kayak2112 (Jun 4, 2011)

well we work in Houston, and we have get dispatched alot for dr vists calls and when we get to the nursing home, the pt wanted wheelchair......so dispatch is notified and we have to make up some crap for our reports about why the patient needed the stretcher.  

but yes its different names on the shirts, different trucks, but same employees and same time card, different checks that are produced. It just :excl: me off that bust my :excl: and them i get shafted out of OT!!!! 

Most of the cities we run in have to have drivers permits, well i got them for A but i cant afford them for B too.....my buddy just got busted with a local city, it was $500 fine. i started to work at A i didnt join two companys. 

that just "opened" the B company about a month ago


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## TransportJockey (Jun 4, 2011)

Sounds like you're helping them commit Medicare fraud. Quit now while you can. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## usalsfyre (Jun 4, 2011)

4x4kayak2112 said:


> well we work in Houston, and we have get dispatched alot for dr vists calls and when we get to the nursing home, the pt wanted wheelchair......so dispatch is notified and we have to make up some crap for our reports about why the patient needed the stretcher.


What you describe is federal Medicare fraud.  



4x4kayak2112 said:


> but yes its different names on the shirts, different trucks, but same employees and same time card, different checks that are produced. It just :excl: me off that bust my :excl: and them i get shafted out of OT!!!!


Absolutely 100% legal if not exactly ethical. If it's two different companies, then they are not obligated to pay you overtime for hours worked at company "B", unless it's parent corporation is company "A". Which any dialysis scam owner is going to know better than to do. 



4x4kayak2112 said:


> Most of the cities we run in have to have drivers permits, well i got them for A but i cant afford them for B too.....my buddy just got busted with a local city, it was $500 fine.


Illegal, and remember it's 100% on YOU for operating without the appropriate permit. In addition, you can be held responsible for any Medicare/Medicaid fraud that you commit (yes, your committing the fraud) by documenting need for ambulance transport when there was none, ect. 



4x4kayak2112 said:


> i started to work at A i didnt join two companys.


But you are allowing them to work you that way. 



4x4kayak2112 said:


> that just "opened" the B company about a month ago


Because Company "A" is probably close to getting shut down...

*GTFO NOW!!!!* 

I can't stress this enough. One of the very few thing you have in EMS is your reputation. Getting crossways with the municipalities (over permits), state (over equipment violations) or the federal government (over Medicare fraud) will do you no good.


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## EMTJay (Jun 4, 2011)

I'm curious as to which company this is? Also, have they been around long? In any case sounds like you should be looking for something else ASAP.

Are those permits your referring to the E-permits? I know the city of Houston, La porte, and Pasadena each have their own. I was under the impression those permits are valid no matter which service your employed with.


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## RockDoc (Jun 4, 2011)

4X4KAYAK--I am pretty sure I know which companies you work for.  I  don't know how illegal it is, but I do know it is being done.  And that is not even the worst of scams being pulled in Houston. 

    Some addresses in Houston have as many as 5 ambulance companies listed there.  There are Houston Fire Dept. stations listed as ambulance service addresses, with the shotgun shack next door having 2 companies listed there.  Pretty close to the North Loop and 290 where I think you are, in the 34th street area, are as many as 12-14 companies are listed as working out of 2 or 3 side by side buildings.  Its easy to run the scam.  You can buck the system but it will cost you your job.  The only thing that will bring this to a close is a labor investigation by the state.

     One thing you should do is protect yourself, if you are filling out legitimate records on patients you transport.  If you are using paper records do you sign your name *immediately *below your narrative and mark out the rest of the blank lines so that nothing else can be added?   If you are using computer records, is your record password protected so that *only *you can get in and change your record if need be?   Do you ever find that you transport a patient in one direction and the other company picks them up and brings them home?   These are things that will be looked at by the Medicare investigators, and they are here doing investigations now.  Houston has more dialysis transports than the rest of the state combined.  The dialysis scam in Houston is unbelievable.


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## 4x4kayak2112 (Jun 4, 2011)

according to DHS website, A has been open in 2006, 

rockdoc, which one do you think it is??? ill give you a hint 45south right off freeway, and yes i have found myself picking up a pt the "other one" dropped off. 

emt jay, yes most of them are, but league city and another one has "Comp. A" on it. 

and the cross out line thingie and sign i already do that. 

They really dont like me at the company becuase I REFUSE to LIE on ANY document.....ie we took a pt to Dr office, sat in the lobby and they said her insurance did not approve her test, so we took her back to the NH. Well she NEVER got off the stretcher and NEVER seen anyone other than the front desk lady. Well i got my runs knocked back to me becuase i put the truth, Pt never left the stretcher and never seen anyone of higher care, they wanted me to put she was offloaded and she saw the Dr. 

Im sorry but im not going to loose MY patch for them to get paid......If i did get fired to protect my patch, would that put up a red flag with my future employer??

sorry for the rants


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## usalsfyre (Jun 4, 2011)

Honestly, having that employer on your work history might be a redflag in and of its self. 

EMS is a small world. In the area I've spent most of my career (north east Texas from I45 to the LA line) you'd be hard pressed to find someone in EMS I can't find some connection to (whether knowing them directly, or knowing someone who knows them). I also know the reputation of pretty well all of the services in that area. When it's time to hire someone, where you've worked, how you've conducted yourself, ect are examined.

I'm serious, your best bet is to bail. Get entirely out of EMS if you have to. When reapplying, explain you quit when you realized the service was not operating legally or ethically.


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## 4x4kayak2112 (Jun 4, 2011)

i cant get out of ems entirely, its where my heart is, i grew up with paramedics (mom and dad) and i two classes away from my paramedic. 

i just cant bail out like today, i have a family and bills i have to support.


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## shfd739 (Jun 4, 2011)

4x4kayak2112 said:


> i cant get out of ems entirely, its where my heart is, i grew up with paramedics (mom and dad) and i two classes away from my paramedic.
> 
> i just cant bail out like today, i have a family and bills i have to support.



I don't think they mean quit where you work now. You need to start looking around though for a new place to work and get an exit plan from your current employer figured out. 

Im sure some folks here can recommend some decent services in Houston to apply with.


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## 4x4kayak2112 (Jun 4, 2011)

ok thanks for the help


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## Jon (Jun 7, 2011)

4x4...

Don't ever "make up some crap for our reports about why the patient needed the stretcher" - That is medicare/insurance fraud, unless you document legitimate reasons the patient required ambulance transport.

If you are wearing different uniforms, and working for a different company, and you are AWARE of it, and permit it, then yes, you could work as a part-time employee for Company B and a full-time employee of Company A. They might or might not be able to use it to not pay you OT for working extra hours... And by wearing different uniforms, etc, you might be agreeing to this. This may or may not be breaking some labor laws in the state... gather your info and look into it, if you dare.

As for picking up patients that the "other company" dropped off... That happens with legit companies, too... my employer will occasionally pass off our recurring routine patients, even their return trips, when we get jammed with other stuff, and that is the one run that it makes sense to pass off.


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## AlphaButch (Jun 7, 2011)

Jon pretty much hit this one on the head for you.

Don't participate in Medicare Fraud in anyway. It not only affects the service you're working for, it affects your own integrity in this industry.

Working for sister companies is legal. It's frowned upon as it's considered shady. It becomes illegal is there is any sort of coercion.

Picking up patients that other services drop off is pretty normal here in Houston, as many facilities have contracts to use certain services. Hence, they use company A at originating facility, drop off at servicing facility. Servicing facility uses company B (due to contract) to return them to originating facility. This is also done between services whom are networked due to resource availability.

INMO, you agreed to point 2, point 3 is common practice. It's point 1 (Medicare Fraud or the perception of Fraud) that I'd be most concerned with. There are alot of services in Houston, I'd be out securing another job.


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## ZombieEMT (Jun 8, 2011)

I am not exactly sure of the specifics of how the companies work, but in general, at least where I am from, this sounds legal. Back when I worked in fast food, our franchise owner owned several locations which he established an additional company for. This allowed employees to gain more hours at a seperate location. Being owned by the same owner made it easier to work at the other locations. However, there were seperate checks, seperate w2s, seperate applications, seperate workers comp forms, etc. Different companies.


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## 4x4kayak2112 (Jun 8, 2011)

For company B i never filled out w2 or ap


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## TxParamedic (Jun 8, 2011)

I'll pile on....
RUN!!!


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## tssemt2010 (Jun 12, 2011)

sounds like willowbrook EMS and bayou city EMS except i dont believe either of those companies is anywhere near getting shut down


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