# “Silent Approach Requested…”



## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 16, 2009)

Don’t know if this is an issue in your area, but it seems that a good portion of EMS Dispatches in my area are ended with the words, “Silent Approach Requested.”  So, two questions for ya…

1.  Do you comply with that request from the RP?
2.  Why do you think they request no siren?


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## Seaglass (Sep 16, 2009)

It's not a common request here. Whether we'd comply depends on the call, location, and time of day. We usually approach lights-only once we're in a quieter neighborhood anyways, especially at night. 

As for why it would be requested... privacy can be one. In some areas, a lot of bystanders will congregate to watch what's going on. I remember another crew on my shift getting that request for a family where a teenager was having a miscarriage. I can see why they'd want to avoid having nosy neighbors ask about that one, although I can't really see why they wouldn't just make something else up. As I recall, the crew did approach without l/s. Sometimes sirens will also scare small kids, so I could see parents wanting to avoid that.

Edit: I forgot about being requested to stage off-scene by law enforcement. In that case, you can bet we're going to turn off the l/s as we get close, even though we'll be staging somewhere safe.


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## mycrofft (Sep 16, 2009)

*Used to.*

"Code two" is a myth. Ask your insurer.


........BOO!


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 16, 2009)

Depends on the call.  If they request a silent approach, but they are having difficulty breathing... Well, I'm gonna go l/s anyway.  I'll just kill it when we get into the neighborhood.  

But if it's Priority 2, depending on what the comments say, I may or may not just get there when I get there.  I'll usually turn on the Opticom, to not waste too much time, but I don't go l/s because someone twisted an ankle playing touch football.


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## medicdan (Sep 16, 2009)

Mirroring others, it depends on what the story is. Is this silent so we dont attract the nosy neighbors? Because we are on an emergency standby (waiting for PD to go in)? Patient doesnt want to wake sleeping husband? What is the dispatch complaint? How far am I from the scene? What level of care am I?


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## MSDeltaFlt (Sep 16, 2009)

There weren't enough options.  It depends on how you're dispatched (Priority 1, 2, 3, etc), location of the call, type of call, it just depends.


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## fma08 (Sep 16, 2009)

mycrofft said:


> "Code two" is a myth. Ask your insurer.
> 
> 
> ........BOO!



I agree, there are only two modes of response in reality. Emergent (lights and sirens) or non-emergent (no lights and sirens)


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## daedalus (Sep 16, 2009)

If someone calls 911 and asks for the siren not to be used, then its not really an emergency in the first place and 911 should not have been called.

I do not honor these requests.

**Thats not to say that I do not believe that paramedics should only handle emergencies. However, the 911 system is currently set up for emergencies only. If the call warrants a code 3 response by our dispatch center, and the reporting party requests a no-code response, it is ignored**


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## Akulahawk (Sep 16, 2009)

It really depends upon the requesting party. If the requesting party is Law Enforcement, I'll honor that request. The reason is that if they're asking for a silent approach, it is because they have a specific tactical need... for them to not be located easily, or to unnecessarily alarm a suspect. When they request it, I'll shut the siren down about a mile out, and then the lights off (and possibly go blackout) between 1/4 and 1/2 mile out, depending upon the specific situation, and stage at the location requested. 

With private parties requesting a silent approach, I normally won't abide by that request.


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## firecoins (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't abide by that request unless I know more info like the situation is non-emergent.


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 16, 2009)

There are actual communities that have prohibitive codes that does not allow EMS or any emergency unit to respond with l & S after 2100, and yes they have fined EMS agencies for not abiding. 

In real terms, it all depends. If it is 0300 and there is NO one in the community why awaken the neighbors and seriously what time do you really save anyway? I much rather drive up without any on. 

R/r 911


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 16, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> There are actual communities that have prohibitive codes that does not allow EMS or any emergency unit to respond with l & S after 2100, and yes they have fined EMS agencies for not abiding.
> 
> In real terms, it all depends. If it is 0300 and there is NO one in the community why awaken the neighbors and seriously what time do you really save anyway? I much rather drive up without any on.
> 
> R/r 911



On the night shifts, we usually kill the sirens as soon as we get off the main road and hit the neighborhood, even if it's an emergent case.  If it's a fairly benign call (ie: not an arrest) we'll usually kill the lights too.

But it also depends.  If we are first on scene, we'll keep our lights on so it makes it easier for secondary units (additional ALS backup) to find the house so you don't waste time reading addresses.  

But, by and large, the siren gets cut as soon as we are in near the houses.  State law says if lights are on, your sirens are supposed to be too, but there is certain leeway at night and going 25 mph.


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## Tincanfireman (Sep 16, 2009)

Usually, the only reason we get requested to go in quiet is for a psych case where the PD is already on scene; getting a DP all wound up just ends up causing me more work to get them calmed down again. If it's a 3 a.m. call to BFE, I'll use the siren selectively as traffic dictates, but we leave the lights on in the event we need help. Some of our residences are up to 1/4 mile off the road, and some of the locals are kind of casual about addresses, so leaving the lights going is a good idea.


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## Hal9000 (Sep 16, 2009)

Yes, I sometimes follow the request, and see RR's comment as my response is similar to his.


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## firecoins (Sep 16, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> There are actual communities that have prohibitive codes that does not allow EMS or any emergency unit to respond with l & S after 2100, and yes they have fined EMS agencies for not abiding.
> 
> In real terms, it all depends. If it is 0300 and there is NO one in the community why awaken the neighbors and seriously what time do you really save anyway? I much rather drive up without any on.
> 
> R/r 911



at 3am there may not be any traffic to use a siren on anyway.


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 16, 2009)

Oh, that's another couple I forgot.  Psych cases, as Tincanfireman mentioned, and seizure cases, especially at night.  The last thing you need for a epileptic patient is flashing lights and loud noises.


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## daedalus (Sep 16, 2009)

PapaBear434 said:


> Oh, that's another couple I forgot.  Psych cases, as Tincanfireman mentioned, and seizure cases, especially at night.  The last thing you need for a epileptic patient is flashing lights and loud noises.



can you provide any evidence of emergency vehicle induced seizure?


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## exodus (Sep 16, 2009)

I kill siren's whenever there is no-traffic. But lights are staying on.  If PD says turn off... They go off, they got a gun.


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 16, 2009)

daedalus said:


> can you provide any evidence of emergency vehicle induced seizure?



Can't say I can.  But it's protocol for us to kill our lights for seizure cases, because there is plenty of evidence of flashing lights and causing seizures in some people.

Seems it's better to be safe than sorry.  And it's not like it inconveniences me.  Once I get to the scene, I see no reason not to turn off the strobes to just be on the safe side.


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## Dominion (Sep 16, 2009)

In the past when entering a residential area from a main road I turn off the siren.  If it's late at night and no cars are out I use the siren only when approaching intersections.  If entering a residential neighborhood with traffic during the day, l&s.


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## WolfmanHarris (Sep 16, 2009)

The only time silent response is specifically requested is by PD if backing up a raid and this is all coordinated via landline through the EMS Special Response Unit. Aside from this, silent approach is never requested as the dispatch protocols Code the response, not the caller.

Regarding use of sirens, when dispatched Code 4 (Urgent) L&S use is entirely descretionary. Unless traffic is heavy or there are lots of intersections to clear the siren is only used intermittently as a warning when approaching an intersection, and then only if there is traffic. (All intersections get a full stop without exception, regardless of time and traffic). So usually by the time I get close to the call, there's no need for the siren at all. I will usually leave the lights on though to help ensure that we are seen by any pedestrians or people leaving their driveways.


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## SES4 (Sep 16, 2009)

firecoins said:


> at 3am there may not be any traffic to use a siren on anyway.




I tend to agree here.  At 0300 there may be no need to use sirens as traffic is minimal or none.  I always use lights on main roads though.  Additionally, if the Police Department requests No L&S then we abide but otherwise, I use them during the day on main roads then kill sirens when I get into residential areas, tertiary roads, etc.


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## RMSP05 (Sep 16, 2009)

The only time ive been requested to have a silent aproach, was to an elementary school and we thats what we did.  I also only use the siren when im coming up to an intersection, or there is traffic, other than that, its not very productive when your going 60 mph down the road.  people are not going to hear it, unless ur really close to them


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## Akulahawk (Sep 16, 2009)

daedalus said:


> can you provide any evidence of emergency vehicle induced seizure?


There should be quite a bit of evidence of triggering seizures with strobes... I know it's done in a clinical setting to try to trigger a seizure (with eeg in place) and locate the focus in the brain. It's not that difficult of leap of logic that strobes on ambulances can trigger seizures in people in the same manner.

I haven't heard of any specific scientific studies wrt EV strobe induced seizure...


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## Akulahawk (Sep 16, 2009)

For "Code 3" travel, California only requires a single, steady burning red lamp that is visible for 1000' in normal daylight atmospheric conditions... Sirens and all the rest of the warning lights are extra stuff...


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## ki4mus (Sep 16, 2009)

We almost always respond lights and sirens, the only real exception is a special needs camp that we have in the county, we turn everything off when we get close to that camp, a lot of the kids don't react well around the lights and noise.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 16, 2009)

Okay... a lot of "depends" answers, so I narrow it down...

The type of dispatches to which my county gets a lot of "Silent Approach"requests are average citizens calling form their homes (not PD and not special facilities).  They are calling 911 for Difficulty Breathing, Chest Pain, and general "Sick" calls...  There is no set time of day they request this, although the age of the ones that do request this to dispatch tend to be more on the elderly side.  By silent approach, they mean that they would like you to cut the siren before it would become audible to the RP.

Yes, as Hawk said, in CA (for instance) code three needs only one steady burning red light, but obviously the siren and extra lights are there as extra warning (although the use and need of them can be debated later and elsewhere).  For instance, the compnay I worked for had a policy that Code 3 meant all lights and sirens (no exception).  However, in the wee hours when responding through residental areas or to SNFs, we did cut the siren.

However, in my area the request for "silent approach" is very frequent and occurs at all times of the day in all areas.  Some crews honor the request (still going code with the lights though) and others simply feel that to do so would mean increasing response time on somehting that could be serious (resp or cardiac issues).  It seems that in more urban areas crews are more likely to be L&S for all code calls, while more rule areas will only go Lights with no Siren (unless they approach an intersection or traffic - a policy I have reservations on as the siren is often activated too late to be any good and the sudden sound is more likely to startle people, cause accidents, and confuse people...)

I guess the question should be, how do you feel about and respond to the request for no siren from the RP...


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## daedalus (Sep 17, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> There should be quite a bit of evidence of triggering seizures with strobes... I know it's done in a clinical setting to try to trigger a seizure (with eeg in place) and locate the focus in the brain. It's not that difficult of leap of logic that strobes on ambulances can trigger seizures in people in the same manner.
> 
> I haven't heard of any specific scientific studies wrt EV strobe induced seizure...



You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency. 

I frankly find it a little ridiculous.


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## Sasha (Sep 17, 2009)

daedalus said:


> You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.
> 
> I frankly find it a little ridiculous.



So you are saying that strobe lights can cause seizures but ambulances that use strobe lights can't?? 

I frankly find that a little ridiculous.


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## Jon (Sep 17, 2009)

I've run calls at night where I never bothered to turn on my lights, let alone siren. If it isn't going to save me any time, and it is going to attract attention (which can easily be negative attention)... why would I want that?

Like others have said - if there is no one on the road to get out of my way - I usually don't have the siren on (unless I'm "exercising a privilege" in which case it is usually on). And in developments, at night, to avoid gathering a crowd, I'll often kill the lights onscene.

BUT - the callers request for a silent approach doesn't really make me do anything different... I behave the same without the request - and there are sometimes when it isn't really possible.

My service also has a policy that EDP's, DOA's, and Fire Calls are run non-emergent, except for mitigating circumstances (like known patients at the fireground, serious suicide attempt, etc). There isn't anything the ambulamce is really going to do, at least at first. An allied agency (PD/FD) will have primary responsibility, so why not let them get there first?


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## Sapphyre (Sep 17, 2009)

Only time I've honored a silent approach is when it was a PD request.


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## ResTech (Sep 17, 2009)

Why would you not honor the request? You are being called to provide a service to a customer who is paying for it. If they request no lights or siren in the area than that is their choice and I think it should be honored. Obviously, if your along a roadway or some other hazard is present you leave your secondary lights activated. 

Seeing how L&S use doesn't save any clinically significant time ne way what does it really matter... unless of course traffic is a safety hazard or you have to go against the flow of traffic.


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## JPINFV (Sep 17, 2009)

If you're going to a residential track, why would you have your siren on after you enter the track anyways? If a driver is paying even half attention, they're going to see you with your lights on. It's not like your trying to cross red lights inside the block anyways. Even still, unless there's a ton of residential traffic, I really see no reason to even have the lights on at that point, let alone the siren.


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## wvditchdoc (Sep 17, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> For "Code 3" travel, California only requires a single, steady burning red lamp that is visible for 1000' in normal daylight atmospheric conditions... Sirens and all the rest of the warning lights are extra stuff...


 
While I am not disagreeing about the Cali requirement, the "rest of the stuff" is safety related. It is governed by the DOT and probably OSHA (but I can't find the specific reference right this second). States can enforce stricter regulations but cannot drop below the minimum requirement. Sounds like the requirement and definition may be outdated.

Marc


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## wvditchdoc (Sep 17, 2009)

*Lights and Sirens*

I think the actual type of call you are responding to should be taken into consideration. 

Side Note: Personal pet peeve of mine is "every call gets L&S". That is craziness. Use that space between your ears to weigh the risks associated and then decide.

Where indicated and depending on Crew/Vehicle safety, the Silent Approach should be honored. If there is any doubt as to your safety, all available measures should be implemented to ensure it; regardless of the customer request. 

Personally, I do my best to honor the request when made.


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 17, 2009)

daedalus said:


> You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.
> 
> I frankly find it a little ridiculous.



Besides being different colors, what separates our strobes from the ones being used in a clinical environment?  

Besides, it's not when we arrive.  We have our lights on right up until we get to the house.  That's when we kill them, so we don't bring the patient out on the stretcher into a billion flashing lights (with the truck, fire apparatus, possible police, EMS interceptor...)  

I guess I don't see your reasoning for NOT turning them off.  Are you denying that strobes can induce seizures, or that our lights could in no way even conceivably induce one?


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## 281mustang (Sep 17, 2009)

daedalus said:


> You cannot extrapolate seizures induced by strobes to seizures induced by an emergency vehicle arriving on the scene of an emergency.


 Why is that? What effectively seperates a light bar from a strobe light?


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## ki4mus (Sep 17, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Okay... a lot of "depends" answers, so I narrow it down...
> 
> The type of dispatches to which my county gets a lot of "Silent Approach"requests are average citizens calling form their homes (not PD and not special facilities).  They are calling 911 for Difficulty Breathing, Chest Pain, and general "Sick" calls...  There is no set time of day they request this, although the age of the ones that do request this to dispatch tend to be more on the elderly side.  By silent approach, they mean that they would like you to cut the siren before it would become audible to the RP.
> 
> ...





If it bad enough for them to call 911 then in these questions they get a hot run....I usally don't use the siren unless I'm in traffic, or need it (otherwise what's the point) but the lights stay.... otherwise they need a taxi.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Sep 17, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> For "Code 3" travel, California only requires a single, steady burning red lamp that is visible for 1000' in normal daylight atmospheric conditions... Sirens and all the rest of the warning lights are extra stuff...



Do emergency rigs in CA still need to have the steady burning red lamp along with all the other lights?

Reminds me of the story about the Queens Artillery in England. They were doing a demonstration for the queen’s birthday. They rolled up with their guns towed behind trucks, ammunition supply rigs, the whole deal. Then they proceeded to demonstrate to the queen how her artillery worked. The queen noticed that the entire 6 man crew at each gun was busy except for one man. He would just stand there while everyone else was working their tail end off. Then right before the weapon was fired, he would snap to attention. After the demonstration was over the queen asked the officer in charge of the company what the 6th man was for. He didn't know. It turned out that nobody knew. Finally someone managed to find out his job. He was there to hold the horses when the artillery fired.


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## ki4mus (Sep 17, 2009)

281mustang said:


> Why is that? What effectively seperates a light bar from a strobe light?




I could see the newer LED strobes causing a seizure if the person was directly if front of the LED head. but the older strobes and regular lights attached to the old machanical flashers just aren't strong enough to do it...


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## ki4mus (Sep 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Do emergency rigs in CA still need to have the steady burning red lamp along with all the other lights?
> 
> Reminds me of the story about the Queens Artillery in England. They were doing a demonstration for the queen’s birthday. They rolled up with their guns towed behind trucks, ammunition supply rigs, the whole deal. Then they proceeded to demonstrate to the queen how her artillery worked. The queen noticed that the entire 6 man crew at each gun was busy except for one man. He would just stand there while everyone else was working their tail end off. Then right before the weapon was fired, he would snap to attention. After the demonstration was over the queen asked the officer in charge of the company what the 6th man was for. He didn't know. It turned out that nobody knew. Finally someone managed to find out his job. He was there to hold the horses when the artillery fired.





thats awsome!!!


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 17, 2009)

ki4mus said:


> I could see the newer LED strobes causing a seizure if the person was directly if front of the LED head. but the older strobes and regular lights attached to the old machanical flashers just aren't strong enough to do it...



If a Japanese cartoon can send people into seizures, I can see our lights doing the same.  It's not necessarily an intensity issue, it's about rapid changes light.

Besides, all of our trucks use flashing LED's.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 17, 2009)

It's the rapidly changing light that triggers the seizure, in those prone to it. The danger is not only to your patient, but to people driving cars in traffic. If they're not aware that they're seizure prone... 

And for L&S: Yes, California emergency vehicles are all required to have that one steady burning red lamp... and the other stuff is add-on, but not necessarily required by CALIFORNIA law. You can have EVERYTHING ELSE going... and legally speaking, if that steady red is burned out... you're not legally traveling "Code 3".


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## ki4mus (Sep 17, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> It's the rapidly changing light that triggers the seizure, in those prone to it. The danger is not only to your patient, but to people driving cars in traffic. If they're not aware that they're seizure prone...
> 
> And for L&S: Yes, California emergency vehicles are all required to have that one steady burning red lamp... and the other stuff is add-on, but not necessarily required by CALIFORNIA law. You can have EVERYTHING ELSE going... and legally speaking, if that steady red is burned out... you're not legally traveling "Code 3".




lot of the trucks in our area are older using old style machanical flashers to control the strobes (and ever Whelen 888's!!!!), and don't flash quick enough to do anything (they are pretty lame when you think about it... The only ones around here that flash quick enough to do anything are the new trucks with LEDs...


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## lightsandsirens5 (Sep 17, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> And for L&S: Yes, California emergency vehicles are all required to have that one steady burning red lamp... and the other stuff is add-on, but not necessarily required by CALIFORNIA law. You can have EVERYTHING ELSE going... and legally speaking, if that steady red is burned out... you're not legally traveling "Code 3".



Well no offense, but that is ridiculous!

So does that lamp have to face forward? (Or do my taillights countB))


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## JPINFV (Sep 17, 2009)

Yes it has to face forward and every single emergency vehicle has one. It almost becomes a game to find it on a couple, but most ambulances either have the grill lights set to steady red or the lights on the roof between the cab and the light bar.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Sep 17, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Yes it has to face forward and every single emergency vehicle has one. It almost becomes a game to find it on a couple, but most ambulances either have the grill lights set to steady red or the lights on the roof between the cab and the light bar.



Humph! Oh well, it was worth a try!

Do you have a picture of one? Also does it apply to fire rigs as well?


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## Shishkabob (Sep 17, 2009)

They're going to have a big diesel ambulance, and maybe even an engine, parked outside their house......and they want there to be no sound?


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## Akulahawk (Sep 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Humph! Oh well, it was worth a try!
> 
> Do you have a picture of one? Also does it apply to fire rigs as well?


It applies to ALL Emergency Vehicles. Period. That includes all Fire Apparatus that is used in emergency service that drives on a road... so you won't see it on a Dozer, but you'll see it on the truck that transports the Dozer...


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## HotelCo (Sep 17, 2009)

Sure, I'd honor it. Code there, if needed, and once in the neighborhood, turn the siren off. I've never heard of a silent approach request here though.


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## Sapphyre (Sep 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Humph! Oh well, it was worth a try!
> 
> Do you have a picture of one? Also does it apply to fire rigs as well?



I can try and get you one later, it's too early to turn the lights on just because....


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## JPINFV (Sep 17, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_56xVAtBjyU&feature=related

37 seconds: look at the front grill lights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv39s3m76o8&feature=related

Look near the middle of the light bar. Extremely obvious when the camera man almost gets run over by the ladder truck at 1:18.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 18, 2009)

L&S5... my man...

CA State Law...minimum code 3 requirements for all emergency vehicles: one steady buring forward rear light.  No other flashing pretty lights are required, nor are sirens.  You can have all those other features, and it seems ridiculous not to, but you don;t need then by lasw... you NEED that one red light to go code in CA and without it, all the other l&s are just pretty lights and you are not really going code.  As an example... One of our old SAR units has an old school 1980's red lightbar with rotating lights (no other lights), in order to make it code three legal we just disabled one of the roters so that it burns forward red all the time.  Another vehicle was rushed into service without sirens and only two strobes in the grill (one red and one blue), so when we finally hooked up the lights we just made them both steady burn and that is now code 3 legal.   Uncercover cop cars that have the dash red/blue strobes in CA just disable the strobe on the red side and let the blue flash to make it stret legal.  Seems crazy, I know, but every state has some requirements as to what lights ar allowed and how they are to be used... and those are ours...  :wacko:


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## JPINFV (Sep 18, 2009)

I beleive the law requires a siren to be sounded when it is prudent to do so (don't know the exact wording), which would make a siren essentially required. It just doesn't have to be on all the time.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 18, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> I beleive the law requires a siren to be sounded when it is prudent to do so (don't know the exact wording), which would make a siren essentially required. It just doesn't have to be on all the time.



Sounds like a company or agency requirement.  I am unaware of this as are the local EVOC folks, but with CA Law who knows...  :wacko:  LOL  I read the law on this once upon a time (along witht he DMV CDL Book) and can't recall anyhting past one steady burning red light, but I would not be supprised if things are not legallsy what we are all taught.  I would be interested in seeing where that requirement is listed if it is factual...


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## JPINFV (Sep 18, 2009)

*Exemption of Authorized Emergency Vehicles*

21055.  The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle is exempt from [essentially all traffic laws] under all of the following conditions:

...

(b) If the driver of the vehicle sounds a siren as may be reasonably necessary and the vehicle displays a lighted red lamp visible from the front as a warning to other drivers and pedestrians.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21055.htm


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## lightsandsirens5 (Sep 18, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> L&S5... my man...
> 
> CA State Law...minimum code 3 requirements for all emergency vehicles: one steady buring forward rear light.  No other flashing pretty lights are required, nor are sirens.  You can have all those other features, and it seems ridiculous not to, but you don;t need then by lasw... you NEED that one red light to go code in CA and without it, all the other l&s are just pretty lights and you are not really going code.  As an example... One of our old SAR units has an old school 1980's red lightbar with rotating lights (no other lights), in order to make it code three legal we just disabled one of the roters so that it burns forward red all the time.  Another vehicle was rushed into service without sirens and only two strobes in the grill (one red and one blue), so when we finally hooked up the lights we just made them both steady burn and that is now code 3 legal.   Uncercover cop cars that have the dash red/blue strobes in CA just disable the strobe on the red side and let the blue flash to make it stret legal.  Seems crazy, I know, but every state has some requirements as to what lights ar allowed and how they are to be used... and those are ours...  :wacko:



Wow. That seems stupid! I guess that is one of those leftover laws that dosen't make a lick of sense any more?

In Wasington state here, I beleive we tecnically have to have all of the lights _and_ the siren going to be going code, no matter what the traffic conditions or time of day, etc. As I'm sure you figured out already, that rule gets thrown out quit often. (I am not going to drive with the siren on at 0300 and wake everyone withing a ten mile radius up. 99% of people move when they see the lights. If I need the siren, a quick blip will do it.) 

-----------

JPINFV

Thanks for the vids.


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## exodus (Sep 18, 2009)

Has ayone here actually driven code with the steady reds? TBH, I like having steady red as well as the other lighting, if it's early in the morning or hella late at night in a residential, I go to half primaries, where we have the rear flashing still, but just a steady red up front.


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## Kookaburra (Sep 18, 2009)

Just a bit of anecdata - was talking to one of my instructors, and she said there are neighborhoods where they almost always go silently, because the local vagrants will squat in homes they know are empty, and will target houses that have had ambulances visit.


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## Hastings (Sep 19, 2009)

If a caller requests an "early shutdown," we will shut down the siren and lights after leaving the main roads and entering the neighborhood. At that point, it's not much of a risk. I've never known a patient to tell us no lights or sirens at all, but early shutdown is very common at night. Privacy; they don't want to make a scene or wake everyone.


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## DrParasite (Oct 7, 2009)

state law says if your visual warning devices are activated (your lights) then your audible warning devices need to be activated (your sirens).  state law.

as for reqs not to use L&S, no.  we won't modify our agency response protocols because if a civilian request.  our agency responds to calls a certain way per department policy


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