# Law mandates new training for 911 dispatchers



## MMiz (Feb 7, 2005)

*State law mandates new training for 911 dispatchers*

 Indiana state law will soon change the way 911 dispatchers help callers with medical emergencies.

According to New Albany Fire Department Major Tim Kron, the state law will change beginning July 1, regarding how 911 dispatchers respond once they send out ambulances throughout the state. Those dispatchers will have to be trained as Emergency Medical Dispatchers (EMD). That training will enable dispatchers to give what could be life-saving aid on a step-by-step basis via the telephone until an ambulance arrives at a scene. Kron said dispatchers will not have to memorize the variety of methods of aid. Instead, they will have a set series of questions to ask in a manual, and a set of responses that will depend on the caller's answers. They will also have written instructions on how to help callers with their emergencies.

[Read More!]


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## rescuecpt (Feb 8, 2005)

Do you all have EMD?  Our 911 dispatches EMD, but if we take a call on the business line or from another agency, we don't do EMD as it's not required...  but we try to.  The "manual" is actually a bunch of large cards on a flip thing, kind of like a rolo-dex, with all the questions to ask and care to give.  Pretty cool, at least I think so.


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## Wingnut (Feb 8, 2005)

Our system has the computer program that does that now.

Although I can't say much for the dispatchers... :blink:


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## Jon (Feb 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuecpt_@Feb 8 2005, 01:48 PM
> * The "manual" is actually a bunch of large cards on a flip thing, kind of like a rolo-dex, with all the questions to ask and care to give.  Pretty cool, at least I think so. *


 Yeah - both of the private Co's I've worked for have had a set of the "apco cards" buried somewhere in dispatch for the "oh, No" calls..... easy to use.....My county uses an "EMD style" sytstem, but I don't know if they are actually "EMD" certed.


Jon


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## PArescueEMT (Feb 11, 2005)

My company does not have them, but since I started class, I found out that it has been a law in NJ since the mid 1990's for ALL dispatchers to have EMD


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## rescuecpt (Feb 11, 2005)

I don't think you have to dipatch using EMD, just take the pts information using EMD.  That's what my FD does here.  We still get "Sig 16 for chest pain"... whereas in Commack with EMD we get "Sig 16 chest pain 10-C-3 response".  All it really means to me is ALS vs BLS.


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## MMiz (Feb 11, 2005)

Our company is dispatched by a large EMS operation 45 minutes away.  All the dispatchers are at least EMT-Bs with EMTD certs.  Some of the dispatchers are EMT-Paramedics.

They still have a card system they can use, but it's nice knowing they have the training.


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## emtal233 (Feb 13, 2005)

At my vollie as rescucapt prob already know we use emd, well we are disp by the police dept and they end up giving us the emd as we are pulling up to the job. IMO the whole alpha bravo charlie delta echo thing is another way for some people to pick and choose their jobs. In NYC911 i'm assigned a job and their type of emd is on top just another way of doing things like everything else...


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## coloradoemt (Feb 16, 2005)

It is my belief that no matter what system you are in you should spend some time in dispatch watching, especially when they get really busy. I've done it a couple of times and left with some respect for what they do and all the decisions they need to make.


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## Wingnut (Feb 16, 2005)

We had to do 4 hours in dispatch as part of our clinicals. It was pretty cool to see how the whole system works.


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## shorthairedpunk (Feb 17, 2005)

EMD is a hairy thing. It adds a huge liability to dispatchers. I watched a news story a year or so back about it. I believe it was in texas that a man flipped his vehicle into a creek and was submerging when he called 911. The dispatchers tried to get his location to dispatch rescue to. He ended up drowning. His family sued the 911 operation because they did not tell him how to get out of the vehicle. The courts ruled that since the 911 center was EMD, that it was within their required scope to help the man get out of the vehicle.

the settlement was multiple millions


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## Chimpie (Feb 17, 2005)

WHAT?  Since when is it 911's job to tell someone how to get out of a overturned, submerged vehicle?  :huh:  :angry:  That's just plain stupid.  

Is it written ANYWHERE in ANY 911 center a set of directions on "How to get out of a overturned, submerged *enter make/model here*"?  Grr.  This is just one of those lawsuits that is just plain, f'in stupid.


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## rescuecpt (Feb 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by shorthairedpunk_@Feb 17 2005, 02:09 PM
> * EMD is a hairy thing. It adds a huge liability to dispatchers. I watched a news story a year or so back about it. I believe it was in texas that a man flipped his vehicle into a creek and was submerging when he called 911. The dispatchers tried to get his location to dispatch rescue to. He ended up drowning. His family sued the 911 operation because they did not tell him how to get out of the vehicle. The courts ruled that since the 911 center was EMD, that it was within their required scope to help the man get out of the vehicle.
> 
> the settlement was multiple millions *


That was actually a case in Florida with a young woman, and there was no lawsuit, only lobbying for better ways to track where cell calls are coming from.  Unless there is another case, but I researched this for my dispatching class a couple months ago.


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## rescuecpt (Feb 17, 2005)

> *In another incident, Karla Guiterrez of Florida’s car veered off the road into a canal. She called 911 and was able to speak to the operator for 3-1/2 minutes before her car was submerged. Due to her panic and her unfamiliarity with the area, she was unable to give the dispatcher a clear location. It took emergency personnel almost one hour to locate her car, and by that time she had drowned.*



This was a snippet from my paper, the article was found here at Dispatch Monthly.


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## SafetyPro2 (Feb 17, 2005)

All our dispatchers are EMD trained, but I don't know how much its actually used, since (other than in our town) ALS gets dispatched for all medical calls.

One of the dispatchers actually came and went through our last EMT course for our new staff. They apparently had a blast having him in the class.

As far as the cell phone issue, California actually passed a law requiring 911 centers to come up with a way to get location info from cell phones, and to route cell phone calls to the appropriate local center (currently, all cell phone 911 calls in the area go to CHP's main dispatch center). So far, most dispatch centers not really implemented the requirement due to ongoing technical problems. I do know that my cell phone has E911 capability, with a GPS locator that can provide the info to a properly set-up dispatch center.


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## shorthairedpunk (Feb 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuecpt+Feb 17 2005, 06:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (rescuecpt @ Feb 17 2005, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-shorthairedpunk_@Feb 17 2005, 02:09 PM
> * EMD is a hairy thing. It adds a huge liability to dispatchers. I watched a news story a year or so back about it. I believe it was in texas that a man flipped his vehicle into a creek and was submerging when he called 911. The dispatchers tried to get his location to dispatch rescue to. He ended up drowning. His family sued the 911 operation because they did not tell him how to get out of the vehicle. The courts ruled that since the 911 center was EMD, that it was within their required scope to help the man get out of the vehicle.
> 
> the settlement was multiple millions *


That was actually a case in Florida with a young woman, and there was no lawsuit, only lobbying for better ways to track where cell calls are coming from.  Unless there is another case, but I researched this for my dispatching class a couple months ago. [/b][/quote]
 No, this was a young black man, like I said, I believe in Texas, and it was a multi million dollar settlement


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## rescuecpt (Feb 18, 2005)

Can you find an article?  I'd be interested in reading it.  Thanks.


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## shorthairedpunk (Feb 18, 2005)

Like I said, I watched a news story, you read articles, watch tv.


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## rescuecpt (Feb 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by shorthairedpunk_@Feb 18 2005, 01:29 PM
> * Like I said, I watched a news story, you read articles, watch tv. *


 Um, ok.  Thanks for all of the effort you put into supporting your claim.


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## shorthairedpunk (Feb 18, 2005)

The story you reference is a 13 year old girl whos sister called 911 when she was in the pool, the dispatcher kept her on the line, but offered no advice per policy, when the general consensu was that had CPR or other avice been given survivability would have been increased.

"I watched a news story a year or so back about it. I believe it was in texas that a man flipped his vehicle into a creek and was submerging when he called 911. The dispatchers tried to get his location to dispatch rescue to. He ended up drowning. His family sued the 911 operation because they did not tell him how to get out of the vehicle. The courts ruled that since the 911 center was EMD, that it was within their required scope to help the man get out of the vehicle."

Note the fact that this was a television program, referencing the death of a male, which I watched a year or so ago.


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## Wingnut (Feb 18, 2005)

That was completely un-necassary.



*edit, I can't spell


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## rescuecpt (Feb 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by shorthairedpunk+Feb 18 2005, 08:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (shorthairedpunk @ Feb 18 2005, 08:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The story you reference is a 13 year old girl whos sister called 911 when she was in the pool, the dispatcher kept her on the line, but offered no advice per policy, when the general consensu was that had CPR or other avice been given survivability would have been increased.[/b]_


_
Want to talk about ignorance?  If you had clicked on the link I included you would have found the below... show me where it talks about a 13 year old in a pool, then let's chat about ignorance.




*Woman Drowns in Canal After 911 Call
At about 5:00 a.m. on Feb. 16 Karla Gutierrez was driving on the Florida Turnpike in West Miami-Date when her car veered off the road, plunged into a canal and sank. The exact timing of the events is unclear, but Gutierrez was able to dial 911 and reach a Miami-Dade County calltaker, and speak for some 3-1/2 minutes before her car submerged. She gave conflicting information about her location, and by the time a police officer noticed skid marks, and divers reached her vehicle some 50 minutes later, she was dead. The incident quite naturally sparked discussions and questions from the victim's family, dispatchers, dispatch training companies and the media. 8-10-2001

Gutierrez's fiancé was angry, and claimed the calltaker did not receive sufficient training--he said the unnamed dispatcher should have given Gutierrez instructions on how to escape from the vehicle rather than focusing on questions about her location. The incident resulted in press coverage which, in turn, generated comments from those in the dispatching profession, which eventually appeared in newspapers and on television. The "Dateline NBC" show profiled the incident on Feb. 27th, interviewing a Miami-Date fire captain, the victim's fiancé and Bill Kinch, an employee of Medical Priority Consultants, which markets medical and fire protocol and pre-arrival instruction cards. The incident also sparked the National Emergency Number Association (NENA) to issue a press release about the incident, pointing out that Phase I and II wireless E911 might have helped locate the woman quicker, and for emergency units to arrive faster. 
*

Click to expand...


<!--QuoteBegin-shorthairedpunk_@Feb 18 2005, 08:59 PM
*now, if you would like to continue, I can belittle you and show your ignorance until the cows come home, though that will be more then pointless since it is likely you have not the availbe mental capacity to comprehend the insult, instead you would likely focus on spelling or grammar.*[/quote]

I just wanted more information.  Most cases that have million dollar settlements are not only discussed on some tv show, but also in print somewhere.  That's all.  Back off, and keep the insults to yourself.  We don't do that on these boards.  That's why we're all here and not somewhere else.


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 19, 2005)

I've opened this topic back up for further discussion, as long as everyone abides by the rules here.


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