# Do you need GPS for a 911 job?



## patzyboi (Jun 5, 2013)

If you work for a company that runs 911, do they give you a GPS? Or do you have your own? Or do you know your area by heart?


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## rmabrey (Jun 5, 2013)

I have my own. However it is merely a guide. I use the coordinate system our city is set up with.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 5, 2013)

We have a GPS that is incorporated into our software. No it does not have to be used. Some employees will bring there own. Our response area is too big to memorize.


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## Amberlamps916 (Jun 5, 2013)

The Thomas Guide is your friend, it has never let me down.


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## MedicBender (Jun 5, 2013)

I find I learn the city a lot better when using a map book. It's also easier to find detours quickly and identify potential trouble zones like schools. After a few shifts of using the book, it was almost quicker to map it out in the book then fumble with the GPS. 

Learn to use a map book and always have one on hand. Technology is great, however it can fail. When that happens, it's nice to know you can count on the map book.


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## patzyboi (Jun 5, 2013)

JW do you have time to use a map book when there's a 911 call? Or is that only IFT?
And when dispatch gives you a call, do they state the address on your radio? Not necessary pt information but general landmarks


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 5, 2013)

Every unit has a GPS. They're simple little Garmins. They work well provided you are smarter than the GPS. You can't follow it turn for turn most of the time because it uses main roads, doesn't route around accidents, construction, school zones or other things of that nature.

Every unit also has a Thomas Guide and new employees are required to map using only the map book during FTO time to show they're proficient. Every dispatch via radio and every page we get comes with a map page and coordinates, ie "map page 276 coordinates 7
bravo" as a reference for the grid location of the street on that particular page of the book.

Patzy, you've posted a lot of questions lately and it's awesome that you're excited. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you're in training, considering it or just out of it. You need to understand that no matter what people tell you or what the book said, seconds DO NOT matter in 99.99% of the things we see. Even in time critical situations, except for a select few like a complete airway obstruction, the extra 30 seconds it takes to map using a map book will not make an ounce of difference in the patient's outcome.

It's extremely rare to see a true life threatening, time sensitive patient. My first partner after I cleared my EMT training time told me something that stuck with me and really is true: "This job is 99% bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: and 1% oh :censored::censored::censored::censored:."


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## Amberlamps916 (Jun 5, 2013)

Our dispatch gives us the page number of the call in the mapbook. There is enough time, EMS has been around for a while, way before GPS.


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## MedicBender (Jun 5, 2013)

I have plenty of time if its either 911 or IFT. 

If the patient dies in the 5 seconds it took me to map it out, there probably wasn't a lot I was going to be able to do anyway. 

Robb summed it up well. 

Everything seems super urgent when you start as an EMT. Just take a breath and don't stress on taking an extra 30 seconds to know where you're going. It'll take even more time when the address is wrong and you have to reroute.


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## Aprz (Jun 5, 2013)

Some IFT companies in your area (San Francisco Bay Area) have GPS (eg ProTransport-1 has TomTom). County Ambulance (operated by Rural/Metro) and Paramedics Plus have mobile date console/terminal (MDC/MDT), which will route you to your calls, post, and hospitals. It'll also provide information about the call (address, comments by the dispatcher, whether it's CODE 2 or 3, etc). You can communicate to the dispatcher that way (just press a button) instead of radio updating whether you are responding, on scene, transporting, clear/available, en route to post, and arrived at post, but they also do want you to say it over the radio anyhow.






^That's what the ones in County Ambulance (operated by Rural/Metro) looks like. Panasonic Toughbooks with Windows 7 on it. Obviously this is not a picture of County Ambulance.^





^That's what the ones in Paramedics Plus looks like. This is not a picture of inside Paramedics Plus rig.^

In Santa Clara County, they are gonna require all ambulances to have ePCRs so I expect will eventually all have some sort mdc/mdt within the next year or two anyhow. I believe most companies are looking at iPads though, which I'm a little disappointed in. Imagine getting a signature from patient using an iPad. Kinda phony, but I guess the patient won't know the difference anyhow. :[

A lot of counties require at minimum a Thomas Guide Map Book.






At the very back of the book, it'll have a list of common things people look up eg Hospitals with a list of all the hospitals name on it, their address, the page it's on, and the grid it's in. It'll also have a list of all the street names, their page, and the grid it's on. As a newbie, it seems kinda hard, but it's actually not that hard. Sometimes I beat the GPS when trying to find something, or come up with a simpler way. Personally, I like to use the GPS to give an ETA, I'll use it as a backup plan to what I come up with, and/or to get me started/get out of tough places (I find San Francisco very difficult to navigate even with a map book because of a lot of "do not turn left" signs, one way streets, constant construction in random places, etc. The GPS won't detect construction, it'll automatically reroute regardless of what turns I make. I like to use both the GPS and map. I do believe it helps you figure out the roads better, you can kinda tell if you are gonna go through a difficult way eg curvy, go out into the boonies, go through a residential area, etc. I use both. Like if you mess up on mapping, or you come with a longer way, you/your partner makes a wrong turn, I find it very convenient for the GPS to reroute versus having to figure out what you just did and reroute using the map book.


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 5, 2013)

Aprz said:


> Some IFT companies in your area (San Francisco Bay Area) have GPS (eg ProTransport-1 has TomTom). County Ambulance (operated by Rural/Metro) and Paramedics Plus have mobile date console/terminal (MDC/MDT), which will route you to your calls, post, and hospitals. It'll also provide information about the call (address, comments by the dispatcher, whether it's CODE 2 or 3, etc). You can communicate to the dispatcher that way instead of radio updating whether you are responding, on scene, transporting, clear/available, en route to post, and arrived at post, but they also do want you to say it over the radio anyhow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wish we had MDTs. All radio and pagers here.


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## Aprz (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm disappointed the private IFT ambulances are probably gonna get iPads. Somebody posted about Active911 before I heard about Santa Clara County doing that though so maybe the iPads will work like the Panasonics and other MDTs do? That would nice.

Obviously I am being a big baby. A private IFT ambulance getting any sort of ePCR and MDT is still really cool regardless of being an iPad or not. Some private ambulances (eg AMR in Sonoma for sure, probably San Francisco and San Mateo too, but I haven't gotten to look inside of their ambulance before so I can't say for sure, and California Ambulance in Martinez) have the good stuff already!


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 5, 2013)

Robb said:


> I wish we had MDTs. All radio and pagers here.



We have radios, pagers, and an MDT. We also have a separate toughbook from the MDT just for ePCRs. It's a pain.


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## Aprz (Jun 5, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> We have radios, pagers, and an MDT. We also have a separate toughbook from the MDT just for ePCRs. It's a pain.


Life must be hard. Sad face. :[


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 5, 2013)

Aprz said:


> Life must be hard. Sad face. :[



Thank you for your understanding on how hard my life is


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## Bullets (Jun 5, 2013)

We have a few things, including a GPS
A regular Hagstrom map book
A binder with each police zone seperated as a map
a turn by turn direction book from our building to every street in town


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## exodus (Jun 5, 2013)

I wish we had iPad PCR's with the pens and a bt keyboard... It would make life so much easier, toughbooks suck.


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## RustyShackleford (Jun 5, 2013)

We have mdts that sync to our epcr tough books.  The maps/gps being on the mdts our system sounds exactly like deserts.


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## feldy (Jun 5, 2013)

we now have GPS in all of the trucks. But during FTO you have to use a map book w. no GPS. Then once you clear FTO you can use what ever you want to look up calls, most use a map book or smart phone. I keep my own GPS up on the dash but that is merely for reference and so i can see street names prior to me getting to the street especially when the street signs are missing or not well lit. Our MDTs have the map on it too but it does not automatically put the route in so its no different than a map book.

we are given an address and cross streets over the radio as well as the PD district.


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## Easternemt (Jun 6, 2013)

Lol I like that Robb.


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## Easternemt (Jun 6, 2013)

Sooooo uuhhh this all looks intimidating, does this mean if I get hired I will be a bad driver ? 

Definitely a rookie here.


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 6, 2013)

Easternemt said:


> Sooooo uuhhh this all looks intimidating, does this mean if I get hired I will be a bad driver ?
> 
> Definitely a rookie here.



What? How does using a GPS and mapping correlate to your driving skills? 

Driver drives, partner maps.


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## Easternemt (Jun 6, 2013)

Oooohhhhh okay! I thought the driver is in charge of both.


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## DPM (Jun 6, 2013)

My county dispatches over the radio and via pager. You get call info, physical address + cross streets and a Thomas guide map page w/ grid reference. e.g. Medic 33 respond Priority 1, Code 3 to a 22 Year old Male, breathing difficulty etc at 123 Fake street, cross of water and ocean, map page 85, G 4.

So you have the address if you want to GPS it and the map book page and grids if you want to use that. Your partner will help map you in and then you just have to find your way back out. It wont take to long to learn the best ways to get to the Hospitals in your service area, so that part generally isn't too bad. You'll have time before you transport to check a map, and if you really are out in the ulu you can  *ASK FIRE*. They know the area better than you and they'll be able to get you to a main road. Take your time to figure out where you're going. Ask questions on scene if you're not sure. your partner would rather you take an extra 90 seconds on scene to make sure you don't get lost.


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## rmabrey (Jun 6, 2013)

Easternemt said:


> Oooohhhhh okay! I thought the driver is in charge of both.



Just worry about getting uour partner to the hospital using a halfway efficient route and you'll be good to go


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## Easternemt (Jun 6, 2013)

rmabrey said:


> Just worry about getting uour partner to the hospital using a halfway efficient route and you'll be good to go



Thank you for the advice


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## MSDeltaFlt (Jun 8, 2013)

The rural and impoverished state/area I live and work my company has a policy that GPS is never to be followed.  It will get you lost faster than going without it.  I've seen it happen too many times to count.  We go old school and use maps.  Now I'll use Google Maps on my phone, but never GPS.  Ever.


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 8, 2013)

Easternemt said:


> Oooohhhhh okay! I thought the driver is in charge of both.



Absolutely not.

If you're driving me and I catch you doing anything other than driving you're gonna be in trouble. Especially if its when I'm in the back, unbelted, with a patient. 

We all wanna go home at the end of the day


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## Easternemt (Jun 8, 2013)

Robb said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> If you're driving me and I catch you doing anything other than driving you're gonna be in trouble. Especially if its when I'm in the back, unbelted, with a patient.
> 
> We all wanna go home at the end of the day



Oohhhh ok I was unsure of that! Thanks


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## abckidsmom (Jun 8, 2013)

MSDeltaFlt said:


> The rural and impoverished state/area I live and work my company has a policy that GPS is never to be followed.  It will get you lost faster than going without it.  I've seen it happen too many times to count.  We go old school and use maps.  Now I'll use Google Maps on my phone, but never GPS.  Ever.



Amen. I knew my partner was following the GPS directions when the hospital showed up in the rear windows of the ambulance. 

Avoid following GPS directions if at all possible. 

That said, I do see new people learn the area better if the GPS is on in the window, and they have one more visual representation of the map going by as we drive.


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## Jim37F (Jun 8, 2013)

In my non emergency IFT service we tend to rely on GPS. Although by now I can get to Cedars, PIH, either of the Glendales and most of the Kaisers from pretty much anywhere in the county lol. It's the hole in the wall SNFs I usually use the GPS for, though I'll pretty my h always double check Google Maps on my phone before leaving, and have learned to follow that over the GPS especially when one of the last times I just blindly followed the old *** Garmin in our truck we got stuck in a wall of traffic taking nearly an hour before we finally got to the freeway -_- and not too long ago I was attending when the GPS just went crazy and my partner had to pull over and ask me to map it on my phone! 

So yeah, I have a nice new laminated 2013 edition Thomas Guide for a reason  

IMO, when working properly, a GPS can help you see a birds eye view if your immediate area and help you learn it, though its only one such tool, one that should never be relied in alone. A good, current paper map can work wonders.


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## Easternemt (Jun 9, 2013)

Robb said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> If you're driving me and I catch you doing anything other than driving you're gonna be in trouble. Especially if its when I'm in the back, unbelted, with a patient.
> 
> We all wanna go home at the end of the day



How about if the Emt driving is in an area he/she doesn't know, and the paramedic is in the back working on the patient; will it then be the EMT's responsibility to figure out how to get to the hospital ?


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Easternemt said:


> How about if the Emt driving is in an area he/she doesn't know, and the paramedic is in the back working on the patient; will it then be the EMT's responsibility to figure out how to get to the hospital ?



Map yourself to the hospital before you start moving. If you must look at the map when you are driving pull over.


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## Easternemt (Jun 9, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Map yourself to the hospital before you start moving. If you must look at the map when you are driving pull over.



Ok got it thanks.


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## DrParasite (Jun 9, 2013)

Wow, the anti GPS crowd is strong here.....

I used to work in a city that was 6 square miles, and i always brought my GPS to work.  the agency didn't supply them (too cheap).  Did I know my way around the city?  yep.  if dispatch gave me an address and cross streets (and that is a big if, and it's a crap shoot if the cross streets are accurate), would I end up at my destination, without using a GPS?  absolutely.  

However we have streets that change names 3 times over a 4 block span, streets that are interrupted by a park, a residential development, or a deadend, and we have a couple of new streets that aren't on the map (yet), and that's all in the south end of the city that is laid out like a grid.  

In the north, they don't believe in 90 degree turns at intersections, so it's very easy to miss a turn and end up several blocks from where you wanted to be, despite having step by step directions.  

At night, how easy is it to find a house that isn't numbered well?

Like I said before, I love my GPS, and almost always put the address of where we were going before shifting into drive.  Than I looked at the directions it gave me, and headed out.  Could I have gone without it? sure, but it's much easier when it points out what street to turn onto, instead of trying to see the street sign at night and guessing if it's a left or a right turn.  

Plus, if you end up transporting to an unusual destination, you have the magic box telling you were to go (been there, done that), instead of having to fumble with the map while driving or relying on your partner giving you directions while he or she is trying to treat the patient.  And the GPS is much better at planning alternate routes, especially when faced with unexpected construction or detours.

But always have a back up or 2 in case the GPS fails, and make sure you learn your primary area.


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## the_negro_puppy (Jun 10, 2013)

99% of the time GPS get us to the right spot quickly. We have a map backup and also good local knowledge of our areas.

Be not afraid.


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## Chris07 (Jun 10, 2013)

GPS = great for IFTs.

As for 911 I think it's a great back up, especially when you're going to some tiny little street that's buried under text in the map book.

When driving to the hospital on a 911 I tend to use the GPS to get me out to a major street when I'm buried in a maze of residential streets. When I hit the major streets I'm familiar with I just shut it off.


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## BEMS906 (Jun 11, 2013)

If you want to be the best you have to know your district. Every street. Seems less time on couch and more driving around familiarizing ones self to the areas we are responsible for is a lost art now with GPS. Seems tome there is  Much higher instance of lodd secondary to Mva since these backseat drivers came out.


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## Melclin (Jun 11, 2013)

patzyboi said:


> If you work for a company that runs 911, do they give you a GPS? ... Or do you know your area by heart?



Like they're the only two options...whats wrong with a map?

I'll admit, I've recently taken to using google maps because dispatch has been giving us the wrong map references lately for some reason. But you really do need to know how to navigate properly. 



patzyboi said:


> JW do you have time to use a map book when there's a 911 call? Or is that only IFT?



In addition to what others have said, taking 2 mins to plan a decent route can save 5, 10, 20 mins and is way more important than the L/S stuff. You can drive will all the sirens & speed you want, but if you go the long way, you're ganna get there a lot slower.


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 11, 2013)

For what it's worth, our service area is close to a thousand square miles. We cover that with eight medic units and paramedics who seldom work in the same district. We use mapping on our CAD, which provides routing and very precise addressing. We also have a tom-tom GPS as a backup in each medic unit and map books, which very rarely are used.

After you've worked in an area for a while, you can usually start heading in the right direction just by hearing cross streets. But there are several areas in no mans land where, without the CAD, you would be totally lost. Map books and the GPS are mostly useless.

I'll pull out a mapbook every now and then, just so I don't forget how to use it.


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## DPM (Jun 11, 2013)

BEMS906 said:


> If you want to be the best you have to know your district. Every street. Seems less time on couch and more driving around familiarizing ones self to the areas we are responsible for is a lost art now with GPS. Seems tome there is  Much higher instance of lodd secondary to Mva since these backseat drivers came out.



My service area is upwards of 3,000 Square Miles... Sometimes learning your service area can take a while!


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## exodus (Jun 11, 2013)

DEmedic said:


> For what it's worth, our service area is close to a thousand square miles. We cover that with eight medic units and paramedics who seldom work in the same district. We use mapping on our CAD, which provides routing and very precise addressing. We also have a tom-tom GPS as a backup in each medic unit and map books, which very rarely are used.
> 
> After you've worked in an area for a while, you can usually start heading in the right direction just by hearing cross streets. But there are several areas in no mans land where, without the CAD, you would be totally lost. Map books and the GPS are mostly useless.
> 
> I'll pull out a mapbook every now and then, just so I don't forget how to use it.



I wish our cads has addresses on them!


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