# EMS and meal "breaks"



## audreyj (Sep 9, 2009)

I thought you would all get a kick out of this arguement I had with my husband last nite.  

He was telling me all about his CDL and log book requirements, I didn't really care but played the good wife and listened.  Then he started spewing on and on about how if we're entitled to meal breaks in our shift.  I laughed and told him he was quite wrong.  I said the first time you tell a dispatcher you're eating and not taking the call you better start clearing out whatever is yours because you won't have a job.  

He still insists he's right.  After trying to explain duty to act, he still didn't get it.  *sigh*  if only it worked that way right?


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## Sasha (Sep 9, 2009)

I get a 30 minute paid meal break....


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## bunkie (Sep 9, 2009)

Don't they schedule you time to eat?


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## Epi-do (Sep 9, 2009)

bunkie said:


> Don't they schedule you time to eat?



Ummm, no.  You eat when you can.  If you have something really good for your meal, you can pretty much count on catching a run sometime in the first half of the meal.  After a while, cold food isn't really all that bad....


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## Jon (Sep 9, 2009)

What I think is funny is that the guy driving a commercial truck full of medical supplies is held to a VERY high standard... mandatory limits on hours driving, mandatory breaks, etc. And they must log it and keep track of it.

We can work 24-hour shifts with no downtime. That's not healthy. Or safe. 

Sasha - Your company is a small minority.


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## bunkie (Sep 9, 2009)

Epi-do said:


> Ummm, no.  You eat when you can.  If you have something really good for your meal, you can pretty much count on catching a run sometime in the first half of the meal.  After a while, cold food isn't really all that bad....



*shrugs* Well as a mother, I'm used to cold foods and stuffing it down when I have a minute to breathe. So this idea doesn't really bother me.


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## JPINFV (Sep 9, 2009)

bunkie said:


> Don't they schedule you time to eat?



Neither company I've worked for had scheduled down time, but we generally always had time (or made time) to eat.


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## rescue99 (Sep 9, 2009)

audreyj said:


> I thought you would all get a kick out of this arguement I had with my husband last nite.
> 
> He was telling me all about his CDL and log book requirements, I didn't really care but played the good wife and listened.  Then he started spewing on and on about how if we're entitled to meal breaks in our shift.  I laughed and told him he was quite wrong.  I said the first time you tell a dispatcher you're eating and not taking the call you better start clearing out whatever is yours because you won't have a job.
> 
> He still insists he's right.  After trying to explain duty to act, he still didn't get it.  *sigh*  if only it worked that way right?



He is right..the question is...will anyone challenge it and risk not eating at all?


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## 46Young (Sep 9, 2009)

When I worked at NSLIJ we were paid 7.5 hours on every 8. This resulted in a 40 hour workweek compensated at 37.5 hours. If we were on an IFT shift, and we were worked straight through, we would get paid time and a half for our "meal break". 0.5 on 8, 0.75 on 12, or one hour on 16. In the 911 division you're SOL.


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## rescue99 (Sep 9, 2009)

46Young said:


> When I worked at NSLIJ we were paid 7.5 hours on every 8. This resulted in a 40 hour workweek compensated at 37.5 hours. If we were on an IFT shift, and we were worked straight through, we would get paid time and a half for our "meal break". 0.5 on 8, 0.75 on 12, or one hour on 16. In the 911 division you're SOL.



Ahhh, 911. Entitled does not equate to finishing, or when we'll even see that meal does it? 

On day 3 of a particularly high call volume week, my glucose dropped to 47 and I am not a diabetic! Had a rookie with me and not even dispatch could get me to a call just 2 miles down the road from our station. Finally arrived after 18 minutes. FD, very good friends of mine, noticed I wasn't my usual self and checked my glucose. Apparently, I, nor my rookie partner had the good sense to do so. :wacko: 

For this reason, dispatchers need to make every reasonable effort to see to it that all crews have an opportunity to eat properly. I had attempted to get a half hour earlier in the evening. A supervisor promptly said, nope, need ya out there. Son of a gun actually had the nerve to write me up!


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## audreyj (Sep 9, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Ahhh, 911. Entitled does not equate to finishing, or when we'll even see that meal does it?
> 
> On day 3 of a particularly high call volume week, my glucose dropped to 47 and I am not a diabetic! Had a rookie with me and not even dispatch could get me to a call just 2 miles down the road from our station. Finally arrived after 18 minutes. FD, very good friends of mine, noticed I wasn't my usual self and checked my glucose. Apparently, I, nor my rookie partner had the good sense to do so. :wacko:
> 
> For this reason, dispatchers need to make every reasonable effort to see to it that all crews have an opportunity to eat properly. I had attempted to get a half hour earlier in the evening. A supervisor promptly said, nope, need ya out there. Son of a gun actually had the nerve to write me up!



That's no good!  I know some people carry snacks on the rig but not a lot of people do, probably a wise idea to do so.  It never fails, the time you say eat or quiet or variations of those words, you're gonna get a call.


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## 46Young (Sep 9, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Ahhh, 911. Entitled does not equate to finishing, or when we'll even see that meal does it?
> 
> On day 3 of a particularly high call volume week, my glucose dropped to 47 and I am not a diabetic! Had a rookie with me and not even dispatch could get me to a call just 2 miles down the road from our station. Finally arrived after 18 minutes. FD, very good friends of mine, noticed I wasn't my usual self and checked my glucose. Apparently, I, nor my rookie partner had the good sense to do so. :wacko:
> 
> For this reason, dispatchers need to make every reasonable effort to see to it that all crews have an opportunity to eat properly. I had attempted to get a half hour earlier in the evening. A supervisor promptly said, nope, need ya out there. Son of a gun actually had the nerve to write me up!



Good, tell your supervisor that you insist on having a copy of the write up so that when you get into an accident while on duty the agency will be at fault, since they choose to ignore potential hazards (such as this one) caused by forcing employees to work extended hours with no breaks.


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## exodus (Sep 9, 2009)

We can request a meal break if we want, but 99% of the time, we're always able to get a snack if we absolutely have to. Eat before you come in, right before. And bring a snack, a healthy person (non-diabetic) should be able to go 24 hours without eating and without compensation for it before problems start showing. Other than stomache pain, etc.  I've done several 12's and not eaten anything. But you can easily eat on the way to calls if you have to. Have your partner drive.

While what I just said isn't safe. It is possible if you plan for it and are prepared for not being able to eat.


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## MrBrown (Sep 9, 2009)

We have required downtime and limits on driving hours (both are set by law); 2x 15 minute paid breaks and a 30 minute unpaid meal break are required for per 12 hour watch.

As to when we take the breaks is obviously subject to workload (some stations have a very low workload for example) and it is decided by the EACC (dispatch) as they have a "whole" view of who is where, what jobs are waiting etc.

There are requirements but I don't know them off the top of my head - e.g. breaks must be between X and Y hours from start / end of shift.


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## Jon (Sep 9, 2009)

When I worked Security as an EMT / medical responder, we were paid straight time thoughout our shift, as we were always on call (even on breaks, and in the bathroom... been there, done that). Some of the regular posts had the officer sign out for a 30-minute meal break. Some complained that we got paid to eat... and it was a semi-regular occurrence where I didn't eat until hour 6 or 7 of my 8-hour shift, or didn't bother to eat at all.

And I can't count the number of meals I've started and finished an hour or more later because of a call.


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## spisco85 (Sep 9, 2009)

We have no guarantee for breaks or eating. The only break they can't stop you from is a bathroom break.


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## Sasha (Sep 9, 2009)

exodus said:


> We can request a meal break if we want, but 99% of the time, we're always able to get a snack if we absolutely have to. Eat before you come in, right before. And bring a snack, a healthy person (non-diabetic) should be able to go 24 hours without eating and without compensation for it before problems start showing. Other than stomache pain, etc.  I've done several 12's and not eaten anything. But you can easily eat on the way to calls if you have to. Have your partner drive.
> 
> While what I just said isn't safe. It is possible if you plan for it and are prepared for not being able to eat.



Sorry, but just because a service is busy does not mean someone should endure being hungry. Bring in another truck, get them a break. It is NOT safe to go without eating for extended periods of time.


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## Aerin-Sol (Sep 9, 2009)

Hmm, KY has a law that states

"Employers, except those subject to the Federal Railway Labor Act, shall grant their employees a reasonable period for lunch, and such time shall be as close to the middle of the employee's scheduled work shift as possible. In no case shall an employee be required to take a lunch period sooner than three (3) hours after the work shift commences, nor more than five (5) hours from the time the work shift commences. "

are EMTs not covered by this law or are we just a weird state?


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## Hal9000 (Sep 9, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Sorry, but just because a service is busy does not mean someone should endure being hungry. Bring in another truck, get them a break. It is NOT safe to go without eating for extended periods of time.



I agree with that.  I've gone out of service for "needed supplies" after having a thousand calls back to back.  Luckily, I've had good supervisors that have put our units OOS for breaks when things get going for too long and will even send texts asking if we're doing OK on food or if we need a break.


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## WolfmanHarris (Sep 9, 2009)

We get two 30 min paid breaks during a 12 hour shift. These breaks can fall anywhere within a 2 hour period during the first and third, thirds of the shift. Most days there's enough downtime that it's a non-issue, but if it's busy we request dispatch to place us on break during which time they will attempt to deploy other trucks to cover minor calls during this time. If a Code 4 (Urgent) comes in during our break we respond as normal and receive another break as soon as possible. The time on the break restarts. We must be allowed to return to a base during this break, but there is no requirement to return to our home station.

If due to deployment demands we are not given one or both of our breaks without interruption, the employer pays $15.00 per missed break.

That being said, on a busy day, we're busy and I since I almost always pack my lunch it comes with me in the truck. In a pinch I also keep a couple granola bars and some caramels in the side pocket on my PPE bag so I can grab a bite on the run.


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## FutureParamedic609 (Sep 9, 2009)

I've always wondered how meal breaks work...and of course I've seen in movies that as soon as the paramedic/firefighter goes to eat they get a call. And I guess that's true!

I'm kind of worried for that part though; I'm a hypoglycemic so my blood sugar drops quite low if I don't eat every three to four hours, which makes me weak and I wouldn't be able to do anything... Are you guys able to carry drinks (water, Orange Juice) in the trucks? 

Emily


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## rescue99 (Sep 9, 2009)

audreyj said:


> That's no good!  I know some people carry snacks on the rig but not a lot of people do, probably a wise idea to do so.  It never fails, the time you say eat or quiet or variations of those words, you're gonna get a call.



Wasn't a matter of no having snacks. We had been doing nothing but quick snacks for the 3 days that week. The ole body objected to it after a while. 
Good thing I wasn't driving. Bad thing, I was the navigator! :unsure:


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## Sapphyre (Sep 10, 2009)

We're entitled to 1 paid 30 minute C (code) 7 during our 12 hour shifts.  During this time we are placed out of service for the purpose of routine move ups (gotta love system status), and non emergent calls.  However, if there is an emergent call and there is no other unit in our area, or levels drop drop significantly (level 3 or below, including us), the break can be interrupted.  They're supposed to put us back on, restarting the clock.  If we don't get a full uninterrupted 30 minutes, we get paid an additional hour.  Rarely do we actually use this time to eat, it's usually dedicated to resting our eyes.  This is usually because we took advantage of a lull in calls to eat.

There is no rule on when they have to give us this break.  I've gotten it as soon as an hour out of station, and as late as an hour before I was due back (ended up getting held for a few hours on that one).  As was mentioned earlier, I've learned to like cold food, and generally carry snacks.  I'm another one that gets hypoglycemic if I don't eat something every few hours.  Our dispatchers are good about trying to get us somewhere where we can get food, even if it's just a 7-11 if we inform them it's desperately needed.


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## Buzz (Sep 10, 2009)

We don't get to go "out of service" to get food, at least I've never heard anyone ask for it. Some people tend to bend the rules, and wait to go back into service after a call so they can get a quick meal in. Many of the hospitals around here have some sort of restaurant available, so that's usually an option. 

I don't work a busy shift. We do almost never do scheduled transports, so I always think twice before ordering something that takes a long time to make--and always get it to go. I'll eat on the way if need be.


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## flhtci01 (Sep 10, 2009)

Our system gives us a "paid meal period".  We don't go out of service and we are subject to calls. So if we just sat down to eat and have a call, the meal period is rescheduled.


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## medicdan (Sep 10, 2009)

I also work for a very busy company. If we need a break,we make one for ourselves. While clear we can request a "step out" to grab food (because we dont have portables, one person needs to stay in the truck, unless we are on a stepout). 

The other option is for us to make time to eat. We are expected to take ~20 minutes to pick up/drop off patients on transfers, and if we are able to get in/out efficiently, we grab some food before clearing. When at hospitals with good/cheap food, we have mastered the "nearly empty the glove box on back of stretcher makes great cupholder" trick. 

The best bet, if you know you are working in a busy system is to pack snacks. Protein is good, as are fluids (according to access to a bathroom). The point of this is, if you dont have time, make time (in a transfer system).


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 10, 2009)

We don't usually get meal breaks.  We eat when we get a chance.  Technically, if we get one of those days where we don't get a chance to stop for lunch, we are supposed to be allowed to call into the chief and request a half hour to eat.  But some of the chiefs...  Well, they don't take kindly to that.

I keep food in my bag on the truck, personally.  Granola bars, Gatorades, bag of popcorn...  Whatever.  Heck, I even keep a an MRE in my bag, as in my experience luck favors the prepared.  If you have it with you, chances are you probably won't need it.

Superstitious, yes, but it's worked out for the most part so far.  I have only had to use it twice, when I was so hungry but the city was exploding with calls.


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## rescue99 (Sep 10, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> I also work for a very busy company. If we need a break,we make one for ourselves. While clear we can request a "step out" to grab food (because we dont have portables, one person needs to stay in the truck, unless we are on a stepout).
> 
> The other option is for us to make time to eat. We are expected to take ~20 minutes to pick up/drop off patients on transfers, and if we are able to get in/out efficiently, we grab some food before clearing. When at hospitals with good/cheap food, we have mastered the "nearly empty the glove box on back of stretcher makes great cupholder" trick.
> 
> The best bet, if you know you are working in a busy system is to pack snacks. Protein is good, as are fluids (according to access to a bathroom). The point of this is, if you dont have time, make time (in a transfer system).



Making time (or a quick drive through) is just fine. Snacks are just fine... and usually that is exactly what happens.The human body will eventually object  to nutritional abuse if one does it long enough. My situation occurred at 22:00. We had already done 17 calls that day with no end in sight. Can't stop for priority 2 and obviously 1's. The non emergent priority 3 calls had eluded us all week it seemed. Full moon perhaps. :wacko:


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## JPINFV (Sep 10, 2009)

PapaBear434 said:


> We don't usually get meal breaks.  We eat when we get a chance.  Technically, if we get one of those days where we don't get a chance to stop for lunch, we are supposed to be allowed to call into the chief and request a half hour to eat.  But some of the chiefs...  Well, they don't take kindly to that.



Of course. If you're calling them anywhere between 5 minutes after the last unit goes online and more than 5 minutes before the first minute goes offline, then you're interrupting their lunch break.


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## Seaglass (Sep 10, 2009)

FutureParamedic609 said:


> I'm kind of worried for that part though; I'm a hypoglycemic so my blood sugar drops quite low if I don't eat every three to four hours, which makes me weak and I wouldn't be able to do anything... Are you guys able to carry drinks (water, Orange Juice) in the trucks?
> 
> Emily



Yes for us, as long as we don't make a mess and take everything off when the shift's over. Of course we can't eat when we have a patient, but we'll sometimes eat on the way to a call if it's been a very busy night. Stuff without crumbs is best. 

I have a good number of coworkers who need to eat often. Never seen it cause a problem.


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## medic_texas (Sep 10, 2009)

Where is that article about the medic in Europe somewhere (England?) who refused to help someone because he was on "break"?  

He got sued and reprimanded from what I remember.  

If you're working 911, you are not scheduled a "meal break" because you have plenty of down time to eat.  However, if a call comes in and you're the closest unit; you can always reheat your meal.


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## 46Young (Sep 10, 2009)

medic_texas said:


> Where is that article about the medic in Europe somewhere (England?) who refused to help someone because he was on "break"?
> 
> He got sued and reprimanded from what I remember.
> 
> If you're working 911, you are not scheduled a "meal break" because you have plenty of down time to eat.  However, if a call comes in and you're the closest unit; you can always reheat your meal.



Plenty of down time? You trippin. Maybe out in rural redneck land, but definitely not out in the ghetto. In the winter, I had to leave my can of soup on the dash over the vents to keep it room temp. I've eaten many a can of chunky soup straight from the can. Calling in an order to a restaurant is a good strategy, so you can just scoop and run with your dinner.

In Corona Queens the chimchurri van had a great steak/moro combo. they were open from around 8 at night until 8 in the morning. Always good in a pinch. 

Running numerous consecutive shifts without any breaks are one of the major contributing factors of burnout. Who wants to spend their whole career like that? It's good when you're new, but it gets old fast, particularly if the $$$ aren't there.


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## NEMed2 (Sep 10, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Ahhh, 911. Entitled does not equate to finishing, or when we'll even see that meal does it?
> 
> On day 3 of a particularly high call volume week, my glucose dropped to 47 and I am not a diabetic! Had a rookie with me and not even dispatch could get me to a call just 2 miles down the road from our station. Finally arrived after 18 minutes. FD, very good friends of mine, noticed I wasn't my usual self and checked my glucose. Apparently, I, nor my rookie partner had the good sense to do so. :wacko:
> 
> For this reason, dispatchers need to make every reasonable effort to see to it that all crews have an opportunity to eat properly. I had attempted to get a half hour earlier in the evening. A supervisor promptly said, nope, need ya out there. Son of a gun actually had the nerve to write me up!



My BGL dropped when I was observing in an ED for my basic class.  Thankfully, I knew what was happening & the tech I was shadowing took care of me.

We don't get meal breaks, bathroom breaks, etc. I got to know the guy that runs the 7-Eleven fairly well when I first started.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 10, 2009)

medic_texas said:


> Where is that article about the medic in Europe somewhere (England?) who refused to help someone because he was on "break"?
> 
> He got sued and reprimanded from what I remember.
> 
> *If you're working 911, you are not scheduled a "meal break" because you have plenty of down time to eat.  However, if a call comes in and you're the closest unit; you can always reheat your meal.*


Not if you're working in a System Status Management 911 system.

That system is designed, in theory, to have the right number of units on the streets according to demand. The other part of SSM is to ensure that you don't have too many units out on the streets not being used... so they track the unit hour utilization rate... They want to keep that as high as possible to minimize inefficiency... 

Which as we all (should) know, results in about zero down-time for the crews which leads to burnt out, hungry people. After a couple years running in that kind of system... who wants to stay there? They quit and go elsewhere... or they leave the profession altogether...


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## 46Young (Sep 10, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> Not if you're working in a System Status Management 911 system.
> 
> That system is designed, in theory, to have the right number of units on the streets according to demand. The other part of SSM is to ensure that you don't have too many units out on the streets not being used... so they track the unit hour utilization rate... They want to keep that as high as possible to minimize inefficiency...
> 
> Which as we all (should) know, results in about zero down-time for the crews which leads to burnt out, hungry people. After a couple years running in that kind of system... who wants to stay there? They quit and go elsewhere... or they leave the profession altogether...



This profession does have the nasty habit of eating it's young. System Status Management is good for one thing, though. It suits the per diem EMS provider who wants a little action once in a while. If I was FT, I think that I would quickly grow tired of being moved to a different street corner at 0100, then 0200, then 0300, then again at 0400, etc. It kills any chance of sleep during the overnight. This is the way RAA does it, or so I've been told. It is efficient though, good for the agency (at the employee's expense).


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## Jon (Sep 10, 2009)

46Young said:


> This profession does have the nasty habit of eating it's young. System Status Management is good for one thing, though. It suits the per diem EMS provider who wants a little action once in a while. If I was FT, I think that I would quickly grow tired of being moved to a different street corner at 0100, then 0200, then 0300, then again at 0400, etc. It kills any chance of sleep during the overnight. This is the way RAA does it, or so I've been told. It is efficient though, good for the agency (at the employee's expense).


and that's why SSM is evil and mean and nasty.

http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=2030&siteSection=14

Thanks, Dr. Bledsoe!


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## el Murpharino (Sep 10, 2009)

46Young said:


> It is efficient though, good for the agency (at the employee's expense).



That's just it, and as long as EMS providers are a dime a dozen and expendable, employers will continue to abuse the providers and keep the pay/benefits at the lowest level possible.


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## WolfmanHarris (Sep 10, 2009)

el Murpharino said:


> That's just it, and as long as EMS providers are a dime a dozen and expendable, employers will continue to abuse the providers and keep the pay/benefits at the lowest level possible.



Hmm... Primary Care Paramedic (BLS) school in Ontario is 2 years and incredibly competitive to get into and complete. Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS) a further year.

We get paid very well and receive good benefits. No true SSM anywhere in the Province (Ottawa does atm, but is building more and more stations to move away from street corners). Meal breaks generally as I described earlier. (90% of province 3rd service, a few combined with FD but at the admin level only)

Could it be that education leads to improved working conditions?


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## firecoins (Sep 10, 2009)

what may I ask is a meal break?


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## el Murpharino (Sep 10, 2009)

WolfmanHarris said:


> Hmm... Primary Care Paramedic (BLS) school in Ontario is 2 years and incredibly competitive to get into and complete. Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS) a further year.



Not south of the border....



WolfmanHarris said:


> We get paid very well and receive good benefits. No true SSM anywhere in the Province (Ottawa does atm, but is building more and more stations to move away from street corners). Meal breaks generally as I described earlier. (90% of province 3rd service, a few combined with FD but at the admin level only)
> 
> Could it be that education leads to improved working conditions?



You're absolutely right...however prehospital care isn't viewed the same way here as it is there.  There are a few threads on this site regarding American EMS education and what it's lacking.


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## 46Young (Sep 11, 2009)

WolfmanHarris said:


> Hmm... Primary Care Paramedic (BLS) school in Ontario is 2 years and incredibly competitive to get into and complete. Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS) a further year.
> 
> We get paid very well and receive good benefits. No true SSM anywhere in the Province (Ottawa does atm, but is building more and more stations to move away from street corners). Meal breaks generally as I described earlier. (90% of province 3rd service, a few combined with FD but at the admin level only)
> 
> Could it be that education leads to improved working conditions?



Sure, but only when facilitated by strong political organization or unionization.


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## 46Young (Sep 11, 2009)

Jon said:


> and that's why SSM is evil and mean and nasty.
> 
> http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=2030&siteSection=14
> 
> Thanks, Dr. Bledsoe!



That sounds about right.


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## WolfmanHarris (Sep 11, 2009)

46Young said:


> Sure, but only when facilitated by strong political organization or unionization.



Chicken and the egg to a certain extent. How do you organize a group that is so fractured and transient. With a couple weekends you can get an EMT-B play at EMS for awhile and move on. Note that I'm not knocking Basic, per se, I'm knocking the providers that such low entry level requirements can attract.  Far easier to mobilize an educated group that has had to make a significant personal commitment to their profession.

I will concede the political point though, doesn't matter how high the upper educational requirements are as long as the bar is allowed to remain low. Only political pressure can raise that bar, which of course requires an organized push from providers, which runs right into the point above.


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## 46Young (Sep 11, 2009)

WolfmanHarris said:


> Chicken and the egg to a certain extent. How do you organize a group that is so fractured and transient. With a couple weekends you can get an EMT-B play at EMS for awhile and move on. Note that I'm not knocking Basic, per se, I'm knocking the providers that such low entry level requirements can attract.  Far easier to mobilize an educated group that has had to make a significant personal commitment to their profession.
> 
> I will concede the political point though, doesn't matter how high the upper educational requirements are as long as the bar is allowed to remain low. Only political pressure can raise that bar, which of course requires an organized push from providers, which runs right into the point above.



I don't know how to organize a group that is so fractured and transient either. I left that mess and joined fire based EMS. It was the best move for me and my family by far. I still ride the ambulace around 50% of the time, do more if I so choose, have excellent opportunities for career development, and I'm not likely to burn out. I can retire at 55, or do three more years for the DROP. I couldn't stay third service EMS, wait and hope for positive change for the next 20-30 years, all the while heading straight for the poor house. 

I'm definitely in agreement that educational standards need to be raised greatly. The thing is, I really don't see that passively raising the bar for pay, bennies, etc. One thing I figure though, is that if a legitimate degree is required before entry into the EMS job market, you'll have a population of serious minded providers, who generally intend to stay in the business for the long haul. This should make organization and/or unionization easier and more likely.


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## VentMedic (Sep 11, 2009)

Stats for Florida which is largely Fire Based EMS:

http://www.ffca.org/files/public/FloridaFireChiefsEMSSectionFireBasedEMS.PDF

If they had surveyed the Paramedic education, they would have found that 70% or more hold only a certificate and no degree of any type. Since the FDs do pay well, it skews the data overall for EMS pay in this state. Plus, it is no secret that the FDs here do contract with the medic mills to get newly hired FFs a quick Paramedic cert and that they even backed an unlicensed FMTI school in Dade when the state was going to deny the students entrance to the Paramedic exam...and the state caved in. It is also no secret that they fought the NREMT even for the EMT level in Florida but the NREMT exam did go through for Basic. They have been and will continue to oppose the NREMT for Paramedics especially since it would mean the medic mills they use will have to become CoAEMSP accredited. 

Thus, the Fire union has done very little for EMS education in the last 20 years. When EMS was still relatively young, the degreed Paramedic was a bonus but the FDs found they could go with more Paramedics if the education level was not raised to the two year degree which at one time Florida would have gotten it first and not Oregon. This was also when many of the degreed and serious Paramedics left the FDs for other healthcare professions such as nursing as the 3 month wonders entered.   I held out as long as I could but the standards and quality were just becoming too low.

No other healthcare profession has relied on a union to advance their standards. Instead, the employers such as the hospitals started holding employees to higher educational standards in a competitive market. Many RNs and RRTs had their two year degrees long before it became mandatory because that is what the job description was calling for regardless of the minimal licensing standard. The certificate was no longer a viable option when petitioning the Federal, State and private insurances for reimbursement.


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## DrParasite (Oct 7, 2009)

Meal breaks?  what are they?  

as a dispatcher, I try to let crews sit down and enjoy a meal (when they tell me they are having them).  however, they can't be too long (usually 30 mins top), and if you get a job, you have to take it.  you are paid to be going on the job, so that's what management thinks.

if you are diabetic, then it is your responsibility to maintain your sugar level. bring food with you if you are that busy, so you can eat it as you clear the hospital and are going on the next job.  I know I have done it before.

again, speaking as a dispatcher, most of us aren't looking to jam crews, and try to be accommodating.  but we all have a job to do.

btw, once upon a time I was dispatching for a non-emergency transport company.  we had a unit that worked 7am to 7pm.  at 1145, they were given their second transport of the day (the first being a short IFT at 0830).  They told me they needed to stop and get food, because one person is a diabetic.  they did nothing between 0930 and 1145, and are now saying they can't do the job because of diabetes?  suffice it to say, my director of operations (who happened to be looking over my shoulder) had a nice long talk with them when they got back.


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## Aerin-Sol (Oct 7, 2009)

DrParasite said:


> as a dispatcher, I try to let crews sit down and enjoy a meal (when they tell me they are having them).  however, they can't be too long (usually 30 mins top), and if you get a job, you have to take it.  you are paid to be going on the job, so that's what management thinks.



Do EMTs not get unpaid meal breaks?


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## JonTullos (Oct 7, 2009)

Aerin-Sol said:


> Do EMTs not get unpaid meal breaks?



It depends on where you work, what kind of calls you're running and workload.  I work at a hospital-based service in a small town that is 911 for the city and county and also does (mostly) outbound IFT to higher-level facilities.  As for meal breaks, we eat when we're able.  Normally we try to eat in the hospital cafeteria as close to the beginning of serving time as we can (especially if you're the next truck out).  If we're on an out-of-town transport during meal time, we can submit a receipt if we stop on the way back and they'll reimburse us out of petty cash up to $6.  Sometimes we're able to eat at the times we're supposed to and sometimes we just have to suck it up and eat and eat whatever snacks we bring with us.  It just depends on how much the red phone is ringing and how many patients at the nursing home need their peg tubes replaced (we do IFT to and from our facility for them too).

Eat when you can as soon as you can.  Scheduled meal breaks rarely happen... if you're fortunate enough to be at a company that schedules and enforces set meal times, consider yourself blessed.

Jon


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## Hal9000 (Oct 7, 2009)

I should mention that I loathe SSM.  I remember one particularly bad day where, when we finally got to stop and take a breath, they removed a BLS transfer unit and put us on a long-distance ALS intercept.  (Remember, it's MT.)  SSM wouldn't be so bad, I think, if it was only for 8/9 hour shifts.


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