# AMR Riverside Strike!



## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

Just wanted to see if anyone has been contacted to come work in Riverside County to cover our strike? I know Doctors Ambulance is on the list.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

View attachment 4443


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 3, 2019)

looks like some double time shifts will be opening up...


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> looks like some double time shifts will be opening up...


Yup plenty of double time right now without the strike... AMR is having problems even staffing Coachella.. I doubt AMR is going to be able to meet staffing per county contract. AMR wants a fight and they got one.


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## Tigger (Apr 3, 2019)

I hope the author of that letter negotiates better than he or she writes. Put your best foot forward if you're going to fight a large corporation entity, it all matters.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 3, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Yup plenty of double time right now without the strike... AMR is having problems even staffing Coachella.. I doubt AMR is going to be able to meet staffing per county contract. AMR wants a fight and they got one.


I will admit that going on strike right around the festival times is a good time to really make AMR come to the table and quick. Not only will they have the issue of possibly not making county contract terms but also not being able to staff the festivals up to contracted levels. 

I do know that for the festivals they were really trying to limit the number of Riverside division employees utilized. So we shall see.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

Tigger said:


> I hope the author of that letter negotiates better than he or she writes. Put your best foot forward if you're going to fight a large corporation entity, it all matters.


Yeah... You are not the first to mention that. I can't speak on that issue lol


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> I will admit that going on strike right around the festival times is a good time to really make AMR come to the table and quick. Not only will they have the issue of possibly not making county contract terms but also not being able to staff the festivals up to contracted levels.
> 
> I do know that for the festivals they were really trying to limit the number of Riverside division employees utilized. So we shall see.


I just hope other divisions support our cause and don't cross the line.


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## CALEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> I just hope other divisions support our cause and don't cross the line.



Double time pays the bills yo.


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## chrls (Apr 3, 2019)

CALEMT said:


> Double time pays the bills yo.



The state pays your bills, yo. Haha.


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## Aprz (Apr 3, 2019)

I haven't heard anything in Santa Clara County, but we are also Local 4911. AMR is doing awful up here, moral is at an all time low (even lower than when it was Rural/Metro), and double time is the norm up here (they've been regularly offering double time for 3 years I think almost as soon as they attempted to lay off paramedics, and I was told it was cheaper to offer us double time or mandate us to work on our days off than it is to hire more paramedics). If we could strike, we probably would. It has been extremely tense up here. They are offering $5,000 sign on bonus to paramedics and supposedly a $2,500 (when Rural/Metro did this, they just didn't hire anybody who was referred).

Good luck guys! I know all of us up North will support you guys.


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## CCCSD (Apr 3, 2019)

Bummer for those that call 911 and need help...


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## Aprz (Apr 3, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Bummer for those that call 911 and need help...


Yeh, it really is. I think there will always be somebody that can respond and transport even if BLS or fire. I think it's a real shame that these private companies try to take advantage of the nature of our jobs, treat us like skat, generally pay us poorly, and so on. It's worse that paramedics are showing up sick because they can't afford to call out sick, get disciplined for calling out sick, and not making a survivable wage in their area with old school people or pro company people saying "You knew what you were signing up for" as if it is OK for us to get new medics every couple of years and treat paramedicine like a stepping stone, but then at the same time say "Bummer that you guys aren't helping the people that need you." I hate how the blame is always placed on us rather than these shady private companies who clearly do not care about patients or the public. I hope that is not what you intended with what you said, but I get worked up thinking about it, lol.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 3, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Bummer for those that call 911 and need help...


AMR will set up or is already in the process of setting up contracts with other operations to keep the area fully staffed. This isn’t the first time AMR has had to deal with it and it’s not going to be the last.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Bummer for those that call 911 and need help...


Bro.. us being level 0 or having 20+ mile responses is the norm... We are tired of being ran into the ground, getting off late, being low moraled.. Our division is their cash cow & its time for us to be treated fairly.


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## Aprz (Apr 3, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Bro.. us being level 0 or having 20+ mile repsponses is the norm... We are tired of being ran into the ground, getting off late, being low moraled.. Our division is their cash cow & its time for us to be treated fairly.


Woah, you sound like us! I think I average getting off late at least 1-2 hours every single day on top of being mandated to work on my days off otherwise face discipline. Like I get that we are going to get late calls every once in awhile, that happened to me at other operations, and I'd get mad, but it wasn't every single day. I think I get off on time like once every month or two? It's ridiculous even if I am used to it. No respect to my personal time.


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## CALEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

chrls said:


> The state pays your bills, yo. Haha.



And registration renewals pay yours haha


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 3, 2019)

Aprz said:


> Yeh, it really is. I think there will always be somebody that can respond and transport even if BLS or fire. I think it's a real shame that these private companies try to take advantage of the nature of our jobs, treat us like skat, generally pay us poorly, and so on. It's worse that paramedics are showing up sick because they can't afford to call out sick, get disciplined for calling out sick, and not making a survivable wage in their area with old school people or pro company people saying "You knew what you were signing up for" as if it is OK for us to get new medics every couple of years and treat paramedicine like a stepping stone, but then at the same time say "Bummer that you guys aren't helping the people that need you." I hate how the blame is always placed on us rather than these shady private companies who clearly do not care about patients or the public. I hope that is not what you intended with what you said, but I get worked up thinking about it, lol.


There is a union AMR operation in CA that will not clear you in for end of shift until they are at least level 5. If they clear you in and the system drops to level 4 then you get reposted. Talk about a ****ty system.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 3, 2019)

Damn we would never go home lol


DesertMedic66 said:


> There is a union AMR operation in CA that will not clear you in for end of shift until they are at least level 5. If they clear you in and the system drops to level 4 then you get reposted. Talk about a ****ty system.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 3, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Damn we would never go home lol


I worked there for 2 days and had my fair share.


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## Virgil (Apr 3, 2019)

Damn, and here I was getting set up for an interview there


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 4, 2019)

Virgil said:


> Damn, and here I was getting set up for an interview there



Come join the fun 😉


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## Virgil (Apr 4, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Come join the fun 😉




In all seriousness, I was considering there, Redlands, and Rancho Cucamonga. Could you speak to any of those in terms of call frequency, management, etc?


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## VentMonkey (Apr 4, 2019)

Virgil said:


> In all seriousness, I was considering there, *Redlands*. Could you speak to any of those in terms of call frequency, management, etc?


AMR Redlands? Ew, no thanks. Never again.


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## CCCSD (Apr 4, 2019)

Before all of you get Angsty over my post, I suffered through much of the same as a Paramedic. It wasn’t a surprise for us to be held over regularly. We worked 24s and the longest “Hostage Holdover” my partner and I worked was six days straight. Shagging call after call. We finally got released when our Base Station ER Doc saw us for the nth day in a row,  refused to let us leave as a medical issue (Dx: Exhaustion, Dehydration) and called County Comm and pulled us from service. 

The fallout was a hoot. 

You guys need to understand that the citizens only care that an ambulance responds. They don’t care about your demands for new shiny things, or more money. So...don’t rely on a piece of paper like the one posted that is poorly written and doesn’t convey a great message. 

Make sure your Spokesperson is really a person who is qualified to speak, not just a trumped up union member. You do more damage when you can’t get concepts across to the public.

Good luck with that...


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 4, 2019)

And one of the other divisions in Riverside county just gave a 8% pay raise to all field employees.


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## DrParasite (Apr 4, 2019)

You know what?

@CCCSD is right.

If you strike, and ambulances don't meet their response times, the company will blame the union members for walking off their jobs.  The company did their best to cover for the workers who decided that their greed was more important than doing the job they signed up for.  The sporting events will definitely get their attention, because if they breach those contracts, the penalties can be huge. 

6 back to back 24s?  that's idiotic.  I'd quit.  or go home sick, and start applying elsewhere, because your employer clearly didn't give a damn about you.  I've been forced at work... we worked 12s, and could be forced for 6 hours if needed.  at another job, I was forced for an entire 12 making it an unscheduled 24 hour shift.  it happens, it's part of the job.   But at the end of the day, it's a job, and getting constantly mandated gets old.

Don't you guys work second jobs?  have husbands/wives and families to go home to?  pets that need to be fed or talked?  other responsibilities?  don't your kids want to see their mother or father?  Don't you want to sleep in your own bed, instead of being constantly sleep deprived?

I support your desire to strike, but to be honest, I'd quit.  The only reason they treat you like that is because you tolerate that.  or because you are only a number, and if you quit, than some other shmuck will gladly take your spot.  Striking might allow you to get some of the things you want, but everything has a cost, and unless it's written into the contract, your conditions can still deteriorate.

Quit, get educated, and move to a system that doesn't treat you so poorly.  Get lucky and get that golden ticket that allows you to ride that big red truck. 

People sometimes ask me why I'm against private, for-profit EMS providers, and refuse to work for one...  this is exactly why


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 4, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> You know what?
> 
> @CCCSD is right.
> 
> ...



Or stand up to the company and remind them that their workforce is pretty important and not just a number? Thats the main problem with private EMS being seen as a stepping stone job. People don't stay and stand up to their employer they just move on. A lot of us actually like the system we work in and believe it or not everyone doesn't want to be a firefighter/cop. We do most the medical workload in this county and we deserve more respect. We are trying to help change our industry for the better and all the support is much appreciated.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 4, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> And one of the other divisions in Riverside county just gave a 8% pay raise to all field employees.


Probably because minimum wage is going up about the same %


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## DrParasite (Apr 4, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Or stand up to the company and remind them that their workforce is pretty important and not just a number? Thats the main problem with private EMS being seen as a stepping stone job. People don't stay and stand up to their employer they just move on. A lot of us actually like the system we work in and believe it or not everyone doesn't want to be a firefighter/cop. We do most the medical workload in this county and we deserve more respect. We are trying to help change our industry for the better and all the support is much appreciated.


Are you really that naive???? 

The company doesn't care about you.  Your strike isn't going to remind them of anything; only that they need bodies to fulfill their contractual requirements, at the cheapest possible, to maximize profits.  You can stand up to your employer, but in all likely hood, they won't care; it's cheaper to replace you.  This exact same situation happens all over the country on a daily basis, so don't think others haven't tried it already.

you don't have to become a firefighter or cop; move to a system that treats you better, because apparently your current one doesn't care about you.  Good luck changing the industry for the better.... maybe you'll get lucky, but don't hold your breath, because all you will do is pass out.  Until you get into the executive circle, you aren't going to be changing anything from within, sorry to burst your bubble.

If you like your system so much, then quit *****ing about it.  I liked my old job, because it allowed me to pay my bills, and support my lifestyle.  but it was only a job.  there were better jobs, and towards the end, I found my self at a crossroads: I could stay at a job where morale sucked, pay was ok, but conditions were terrible, supervisors sucked, and staffing issues existed, or I could leave that black hole and be happy.  And I relocated and got myself a job in a better system.    Remember, no manager likes a union; moreover, unions wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the crappy employers.  And no manager likes unions, so you can strike, but don't be surprised if that strike has unintended consequences down the road.  

I'm a former union member, and I support you 100%; but I'm also an educated individual, so I know how business's work, and economics is something that most EMS workers don't understand (or haven't tried to learn about).  Remember when I mentioned getting educated?  start there.

oh, and next time you say "we deserve more respect" make sure you are stamping your feet.  It will help get your point across.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 4, 2019)

A


DrParasite said:


> Are you really that naive????
> 
> The company doesn't care about you.  Your strike isn't going to remind them of anything; only that they need bodies to fulfill their contractual requirements, at the cheapest possible, to maximize profits.  You can stand up to your employer, but in all likely hood, they won't care; it's cheaper to replace you.  This exact same situation happens all over the country on a daily basis, so don't think others haven't tried it already.
> 
> ...


 So since we are trying to make change for the better that means we are uneducated? Your mindset is the reason these companies continue the practice the way they do. We can go back and forth. But since you might just "Burst my bubble" and I'm "naive" whats the point...


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## CCCSD (Apr 4, 2019)

What IS the purpose of your strike? A pay raise? EAP? Didn’t you get all that under Prop 11? I mean, that’s what you told the voters...
Any public support will go away as soon as you fail to respond and a child dies.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 4, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> What IS the purpose of your strike? A pay raise? EAP? Didn’t you get all that under Prop 11? I mean, that’s what you told the voters...
> Any public support will go away as soon as you fail to respond and a child dies.


Prop 11 didn’t give anyone a pay raise. All it did was make the company not be required to give us a lunch break and not be required to pay us an extra hour if we don’t get a break. Everything else in the prop were already things that the vast majority of EMS agencies in CA already do/require such as FEMA training. For EAP there is no stipulation on how many sessions you can get covered by the company, it could only be one. 

Just to put it another way, the major backer who spent tens of millions in advertising for prop 11 was AMR.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 4, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> What IS the purpose of your strike? A pay raise? EAP? Didn’t you get all that under Prop 11? I mean, that’s what you told the voters...
> Any public support will go away as soon as you fail to respond and a child dies.


Did we get all that under prop 11? Nope,  you just believed the lie like everyone else. They paid $30mil to buy their own bill in order to not pay employees for violating labor laws.  "AMR is violating the National Labor Relations Act by bargaining in bad faith AND by stripping us of our right to union expression/organization . That is proven by them telling employees to remove their “No on 11” buttons, telling employees to remove their “Meat in the Seat” and “Fair Contract Now” buttons, by them telling employees to remove their “text message” buttons, by denying our information request we asked for during bargaining, and by giving us a wage proposal that simple is a slap in the face because it gives what the minimum wage gives." Thats why we are striking!


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## Aprz (Apr 4, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> What IS the purpose of your strike? A pay raise? EAP? Didn’t you get all that under Prop 11? I mean, that’s what you told the voters...
> Any public support will go away as soon as you fail to respond and a child dies.


Check out https://www.emtlife.com/threads/california-prop-11.47348/. Prop 11 was a sham and most Californian EMTs and paramedics fought against it. Unfortunately, American Medical Response had deeper pockets than we did.


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## Jim37F (Apr 7, 2019)

AMR be like:


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## CCCSD (Apr 8, 2019)

Doesn’t matter if 11 is a sham. The public was told, BY EMTS and Paramedics, it was a great thing and would result in better things. You guys shot yourselves in the foot, not us.

Before you enter politics, have a plan and someone who KNOWS what they are doing, and a media consultant. Your union doesn’t have a clue.


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## wtferick (Apr 8, 2019)

So I'll just keep scrolling through all these AMR job listings...


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## DrParasite (Apr 8, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Doesn’t matter if 11 is a sham. The public was told, BY EMTS and Paramedics, it was a great thing and would result in better things. You guys shot yourselves in the foot, not us.


Ummmm, I don't think any EMTs or Paramedics said it was a good thing.  The only guys who said it was a good thing was AMR, as it got them off the hook for 100 million in liability for failing to properly pay their staff.  You know, that for profit company that isn't looking out for their employees best interests..... that's what the union is for, and I agree, they really blew it on prop 11.

Here is the original discussion on Prop 11: https://emtlife.com/threads/california-prop-11.47348/


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## CCCSD (Apr 8, 2019)

Ummmm. Since you aren’t in CA, you don’t know what was presented to the public. It was sold that this would increase training, skills, staffing, response.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 8, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Ummmm. Since you aren’t in CA, you don’t know what was presented to the public. It was sold that this would increase training, skills, staffing, response.



Commercials and social media cross state lines...


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 8, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Doesn’t matter if 11 is a sham. The public was told, BY EMTS and Paramedics, it was a great thing and would result in better things. You guys shot yourselves in the foot, not us.
> 
> Before you enter politics, have a plan and someone who KNOWS what they are doing, and a media consultant. Your union doesn’t have a clue.


What crack are you smoking?

No EMTs or Paramedics in CA told the public prop 11 was a good thing, actually it was the exact opposite. The only ones who were really saying it was a good thing was AMR who spent somewhere in the $20-30 million range for advertising.


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## CCCSD (Apr 8, 2019)

Read the ads put out. The PUBLIC bought it. It was sold as I stated. Do YOU speak for the Public?  Didn’t think so.


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## CCCSD (Apr 8, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> Commercials and social media cross state lines...



Then READ what was written in the papers instead of popping off on here. A few twits and bookface posts don’t mean a thing. If you’re not the voting public, you got nothing to say regarding Prop 11.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 8, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Read the ads put out. The PUBLIC bought it. It was sold as I stated. Do YOU speak for the Public?  Didn’t think so.


The ads did exactly what AMR wanted to do by spending so much. Hate to break it to you but just because an ad is on TV doesn’t mean EMTs and Paramedics agree with it. AMR speaks for AMR. AMR is a business who’s main goal is to be profitable. AMR does not speak for its EMTs and Paramedics. 

Are you sure you’re not having a stroke? Because you are not making a lot of sense right now.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 9, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Ummmm. Since you aren’t in CA, you don’t know what was presented to the public. It was sold that this would increase training, skills, staffing, response.





CCCSD said:


> Doesn’t matter if 11 is a sham. The public was told, BY EMTS and Paramedics, it was a great thing and would result in better things. You guys shot yourselves in the foot, not us.
> 
> Before you enter politics, have a plan and someone who KNOWS what they are doing, and a media consultant. Your union doesn’t have a clue.


You sound like a genious.. so a handful of people (most were prob amr supervisors) say its a good thing and it makes it true for the masses? We are AMR employees in California, I think we know the truth better than yourself.


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## Aprz (Apr 9, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Doesn’t matter if 11 is a sham. The public was told, BY EMTS and Paramedics, it was a great thing and would result in better things. You guys shot yourselves in the foot, not us.
> 
> Before you enter politics, have a plan and someone who KNOWS what they are doing, and a media consultant. Your union doesn’t have a clue.


I agree, my union did drop the ball on this. I am not 100% sure on the details, but it sounds like AMR put this bid in last minute, so when our Union found out and reacted to it, it was too late. I am angry at the State for allowing such a terrible thing to be voted on, something very misleading, and I am also angry that they didn't allow our Union to put up an against argument because they reacted too late.

For the record, this was not just one union. Multiple Unions, including IAFF (firefighter union), were against prop 11. For the video I showed you, multiple unions that are often competing against each other to represent different bargaining units (eg Nage vs UEMSW) worked together to try to fight AMR on this and showed up to events together.

The public was not told by EMTs and paramedics to vote yes on prop 11. Many many many EMTs and paramedics went out of their way to make sure to tell the public to vote no on it, picketed at the State capital and San Francisco (the video I showed earlier), and so on. AMR did run ads that had "EMTs" and "Paramedics" to say vote yes on it, but it was found that these people were AMR management and I think they weren't even certified EMTs/paramedics like advertised. Example https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=694382177407&set=a.502802554507&type=3&theater . Maybe EMTs and Paramedics started to write about how the company's bottom line was to make more money and cut corners; There were pictures shown of the price of ambulance transport and treatment, pictures of our broken equipment being held together by tape, a no on vote 11 website was made, etc.


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## Chimpie (Apr 9, 2019)

*Good discussion, but keep it civil.*


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## CCCSD (Apr 9, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> You sound like a genious.. so a handful of people (most were prob amr supervisors) say its a good thing and it makes it true for the masses? We are AMR employees in California, I think we know the truth better than yourself.



You REALLY don’t understand politics very well. I don’t think you at AMR truly understand what you are trying to do.  Your Supervisors sure have such power that they caused millions of voters to obey them.

You are children when it comes to unions. As I said earlier, you need experienced people, not some wannabe Jimmy Hoffa telling you what to do. IAFF, etc? They sure failed also.

Until you win over the Public, which you will never do by denying them 911 services, you will lose each time. Your “truth” is so secret that only AMR employees know what it is? Really? No wonder...


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## CbrMonster (Apr 9, 2019)

garuntee the strike is happening talking to the 10-15 amr employees i know. all are voting today.


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## Tigger (Apr 9, 2019)

Implying that AMR supported something so therefore the employees did is laughable. I didn't see a single labor or employee group pushing for the proposition. Also, I want to know what it is going all over the nation for EMS providers. It can effect me and fortunately social media allows for the sharing of experiences, despite those silly state lines.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 10, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> You REALLY don’t understand politics very well. I don’t think you at AMR truly understand what you are trying to do.  Your Supervisors sure have such power that they caused millions of voters to obey them.
> 
> You are children when it comes to unions. As I said earlier, you need experienced people, not some wannabe Jimmy Hoffa telling you what to do. IAFF, etc? They sure failed also.
> 
> Until you win over the Public, which you will never do by denying them 911 services, you will lose each time. Your “truth” is so secret that only AMR employees know what it is? Really? No wonder...


I don't understand politics very well? And you know this how? You know nothing about me. And since you know nothing of our divison and for some reason think our supervisors were lobbying for prop 11, you should keep your false claims to yourself.

And DesertMedic66 had a serious question for you.

"Are you sure you’re not having a stroke? Because you are not making a lot of sense right now."


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## CbrMonster (Apr 10, 2019)

Also I just realized they say they’ll pull from doctors operation.... good luck that’s all bls if amr’s Medics walk off they’re still not in a good position. That’s gonna for sure piss off fire.


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## wtferick (Apr 10, 2019)

CbrMonster said:


> Also I just realized they say they’ll pull from doctors operation.... good luck that’s all bls if amr’s Medics walk off they’re still not in a good position. That’s gonna for sure piss off fire.


They can't pull from McCormicks medics?


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## CbrMonster (Apr 10, 2019)

Doubtful McCormick is la county, they don’t have the accreditation for riverside, not to mention doesn’t riverside require phtls or ITLS where as la only requires pals and acls

Plus they don’t have that many medics and they’re ift medics and when they get pulled to run911 calls they’re bls soo I don’t really see that as a good option


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 10, 2019)

CbrMonster said:


> Doubtful McCormick is la county, they don’t have the accreditation for riverside, not to mention doesn’t riverside require phtls or ITLS where as la only requires pals and acls


Technically Riverside county does not require PHTLS/ITLS. However in AMRs contract with the county, the county requires all AMR medics to have ITLS/PHTLS.


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## CbrMonster (Apr 10, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Technically Riverside county does not require PHTLS/ITLS. However in AMRs contract with the county, the county requires all AMR medics to have ITLS/PHTLS.


So since they’re under the amr umbrella would they be required to have it?


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 10, 2019)

CbrMonster said:


> So since they’re under the amr umbrella would they be required to have it?


I honestly have no clue when it comes to emergency staffing due to a strike. I’m not sure if AMR is able to bypass any of those standards.


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## CbrMonster (Apr 10, 2019)

Spoke to a friend, they did not go on strike Today waiting to hear why.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 10, 2019)

CbrMonster said:


> Spoke to a friend, they did not go on strike Today waiting to hear why.


We are just voting this week. We still have to give a 10 day notice if it does move towards a strike.


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## DrParasite (Apr 11, 2019)

CbrMonster said:


> garuntee the strike is happening talking to the 10-15 amr employees i know. all are voting today.


So you went from garuntee (the word is actually guarantee), to this


CbrMonster said:


> Spoke to a friend, they did not go on strike Today waiting to hear why.


So your credibility on knowing what's going on isn't really all that inspiring.

In case you were wondering, strikes in healthcare 1) rarely work 2) when they do work, they often have unintended consequences, and 3) make it hard for those employees, who are currently underpaid and often living paycheck to paycheck, to go on strike, where their personal finances will get even tighter with all the unpaid bills.  It gets even worse when you have family and are the breadwinner for your entire family (spouse and kids).

The _threat _of a strike is often more effective, as it forces management to take the demands of the union seriously, especially when they calculate how much money they will lose, or how much they will need to spend to mitigate the strike.  Plus the negative PR, but in reality, as long as they don't get sued, or lose too much money, hospital management won't lose sleep over it.

It's poor management to not have contingency plans, especially in healthcare.  At the last hospital nurses strike I was swept up in (EMS wasn't part of the union, but we had nurses who worked with us who were unionized), the hospital had professional strike breaking nurses that staffed at the hospital the day the strike started, with nursing management personnel working on the units and training the temp staff.   Business as usual continued, but the hospital was staffed with out of towners, so things didn't run as smoothly.  Some striking nurses found other jobs at other hospitals and never returned, but at the end, the strike ended, and a lot of the capital improvements and money for raises, new staff, and newly created positions, ended up going to pay the strike expenses.

As long as AMR can move people from another division to cover the strikers, and they don't break any contracts, they won't care much.  Yeah, it's inconvenient, yeah, they will need to pay OT, but I guarantee no one in AMR's upper management will lose sleep over it, at least no more than their regular staffing issues.

Listen, I'm pro union, support labor, think EMS unions are a good thing (provided management is willing to work with labor on a good contract). But I'm also a realist, have seen what happens when public safety and healthcare strike, and know that in an industry full of people who are using EMS as a stepping stone until something else, where they will change companies in a heartbeat because another places pays more, and who live paycheck to paycheck, striking and losing that paycheck is not as appealing as you think.

But maybe I'm wrong, and you guys will strike, and AMR's management will roll over and give you everything you want, conditions will improve drastically, and there will be no unintended consequences.  Maybe Riverside County Ca will be the anomaly, in all of healthcare... 

or maybe AMR will lose the contract lay everyone off, another low quality for profit company will get the contract, hire all the former AMR staff for lower pay and worse conditions (because we all need to work), and things will be even worse.  Or maybe AMR will just pay people from other divisions OT, use them as strike breaking providers, and after a month, and all the Riverside employee's mortgages and rents come do, and they decided they need that income to put a roof over their heads and feed their family....

Good luck.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 11, 2019)

Goal was never to strike. Like you said, it's to show management we are tired of their nonsense and we can be united as a workforce... AMR already scheduled a bargaining meeting for next week, looks like its heading in the right direction to me... Hundreds of votes already placed with today and tomorrow left. 💪


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 11, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> But maybe I'm wrong, and you guys will strike, and AMR's management will roll over and give you everything you want, conditions will improve drastically, and there will be no unintended consequences. Maybe Riverside County Ca will be the anomaly, in all of healthcare...


And it wouldn't be an anomaly since other divisions have already fought AMR and won.


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## Tigger (Apr 11, 2019)

My limited experience with EMS unions left a pretty bland taste. An organizer came into our AMR op and just embarrassed himself repeatedly to the point that the employees refused to even hold a vote to organize. He had no ability to "sell" the benefits of organizing and his only point was to repeatedly emphasize protection from bad/punitive management, which was not really an issue at our operation. We were short staffed and underpaid, but that was not something he could seem to grasp in the pre-organization meetings. He also had no written communication skills and every email made me question the union's ability to ever hold a negotiation with professional management teams.  Meanwhile management capitalized on this to bring "raises" (that hadn't happened in three years) to everyone while also adding that a contract might result in a lot of "perks" going away. 

I'm an IAFF member now, and while I do not support most of their positions regarding EMS, I do support the huge amount of resources they bring to my local to help us with our negotiations to get our first contract (CBAs are very rare in Colorado).


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 11, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> Or maybe AMR will just pay people from other divisions OT, use them as strike breaking providers, and after a month, and all the Riverside employee's mortgages and rents come do, and they decided they need that income to put a roof over their heads and feed their family....



We are striking for ULP, so the strike would only last 2 days or so. Nobody will be hurting bad except AMR. A lot of us were recommending just a blue flue... Everyone call off sick, I bet that will get their attention as well.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 11, 2019)

Aprz said:


> Woah, you sound like us! I think I average getting off late at least 1-2 hours every single day on top of being mandated to work on my days off otherwise face discipline. Like I get that we are going to get late calls every once in awhile, that happened to me at other operations, and I'd get mad, but it wasn't every single day. I think I get off on time like once every month or two? It's ridiculous even if I am used to it. No respect to my personal time.


How often are you getting mandated? I’m getting mandated two days a month at my current gig. It sucks.


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## wtferick (Apr 12, 2019)

I don't think AMR will be affected from this what so ever. Not the first, nor the last strike against AMR.


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## DrParasite (Apr 12, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> We are striking for ULP, so the strike would only last 2 days or so. Nobody will be hurting bad except AMR. A lot of us were recommending just a blue flue... Everyone call off sick, I bet that will get their attention as well.


So you would like to strike just for 2 days?  I don't think AMR would even care.  Maybe the local management would be uncomfortable, but I doubt it would be more than a blip on the radar back at corporate HQ.  I doubt any changes will even occur.

If you think no one will be hurting what about all the people who are unable to get ambulances because they are short staffed?  if someone dies because of not enough ambulances does that fall on the union for calling in sick?

Your vastly overestimating your place in the AMR corporate system.   If you announce you're striking, AMR will transfer in personnel from other areas to staff the trucks.   They won't hurt, but they might delay giving annual raises because they had to divert funds to cover the strike crews.

In my experience, healthcare and public safety strikes rarely help anyone, especially the strikers.  The union's strength exists in signing a contract between labor and management, and if management is violating that contract, then they can file lawsuits against management to force them to follow their legally binding contract, as well as give labor a stronger voice when management is not being fair to employees, particularly in the disciplinary proceedings.

You want to strike for better wages?  Go for it.  you want to strike to get your steps back?  Go for it.  You want to strike for CISM to be included in your contract?    Well, I hope you are including to have workman's comp cover PTSD from EMS calls, but go for it.  You think this all qualifies as failing to negotiate in good faith, and ULP?  ehhh, maybe.  You think if a strike is authorized, in 2 days, AMR will do a 180 degree reversal, and give you everything you want?  in 2 days?  Whomever is telling you that is either overly lying to you, or naively optimistic about how effective that strike will be.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 12, 2019)

Well i'm glad you guys don't have say in what we do here. We are so far heading in the right direction towards a fair contract. AMR is coming back to the table...You guys will hear about our success soon enough.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 12, 2019)

My guess is you folks end up settling for a few more dollars a year and two bathroom breaks; and for that the company is going to make you bite the pillow n the long run, but I wish you the best of luck.

It’s been my experience that strikes don’t work in the long term. You might end up with a short term improvement, but the management is going to get their revenge.


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## Tigger (Apr 12, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Well i'm glad you guys don't have say in what we do here. We are so far heading in the right direction towards a fair contract. AMR is coming back to the table...You guys will hear about our success soon enough.


Well, at least you're confident.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

hometownmedic5 said:


> My guess is you folks end up settling for a few more dollars a year and two bathroom breaks; and for that the company is going to make you bite the pillow n the long run, but I wish you the best of luck.
> 
> 
> It’s been my experience that strikes don’t work in the long term. You might end up with a short term improvement, but the management is going to get their revenge.



We settled for that last contract. This time we have the majority of the workforce united, and thats almost 500 strong. Time for change 💪


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> Your vastly overestimating your place in the AMR corporate system. If you announce you're striking, AMR will transfer in personnel from other areas to staff the trucks. They won't hurt, but they might delay giving annual raises because they had to divert funds to cover the strike crews.


You vastly underestimate the power of bad press on stock holders. You think corporate wants 400+ employees marching in downtown Riverside for ULP? Van Horn told us in person "you make me a lot of money" and we do. And you think the county will like this? Fire? Maybe this will inspire the rest of the big divisions to unite as well.


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## CCCSD (Apr 13, 2019)

400 hundred marchers...I doubt that. But if you’re going to strike, then man up and go out for weeks. Two days is nothing.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

Man up? Learn the law. You just can't strike because you feel like it.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> 400 hundred marchers...I doubt that. But if you’re going to strike, then man up and go out for weeks. Two days is nothing.


Man up? Learn the law. You just can't strike because you feel like it. You doubt it? Well that's good to know, we that work here in Riverside must be wrong and you are all knowing.


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## CCCSD (Apr 13, 2019)

You are striking because you “feel like it”.  There is no law preventing you, only LE cannot strike. Do you even understand this...never mind. Trying to communicate with you is like trying to teach a 2 year old the meaning of “No”, they just don’t have the mental capacity.


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> You are striking because you “feel like it”.  There is no law preventing you, only LE cannot strike. Do you even understand this...never mind. Trying to communicate with you is like trying to teach a 2 year old the meaning of “No”, they just don’t have the mental capacity.





You just shown us that you have no idea what you are talking about. Good job.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 13, 2019)

Well this thread has certainly jumped the track...


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## CCCSD (Apr 13, 2019)

The bum down the street who’s been doing meth for 20 years has more veracity than the OP on this thread...


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## CALEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

Me watching this thread like...


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## BASICallyEMT (Apr 13, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> The bum down the street who’s been doing meth for 20 years has more veracity than the OP on this thread...


Do you actually have anything intellectual to say? You remind me of someone that just asks questions to sound smart but yet you sound like a *******


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## Amberlamps916 (Apr 13, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> You vastly underestimate the power of bad press on stock holders. You think corporate wants 400+ employees marching in downtown Riverside for ULP? Van Horn told us in person "you make me a lot of money" and we do. And you think the county will like this? Fire? Maybe this will inspire the rest of the big divisions to unite as well.



In what context did Van Horn say this?


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## Tigger (Apr 13, 2019)

We're gonna let this one cool off for a time.


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