# having a hard time getting work as an emt, should i just start the medic process?



## freebyrd (Jul 25, 2011)

i graduated at the beginning of may and passed nremt a couple of weeks later got my state cert and all that,
i eventually wanted to go on to be a paramedic anyway, but i was hoping to get on with the ambulance company who will pay for it
but i am not sure its going to work out,
so i was thinking of looking into my community college locally and see if they offered a paramedic course.
i would qualify for student grants and such since i am married with a small family and currently unemployed.
has anybody else just skipped working as an emt and just went on to medic?
i am sure academically i could do it.
 i finished my emt course with honors and passed registry with no problems the first time around. i am a pretty quick study and catch on to things relatively easily.

but do you think it would make it any easier to get a job?
its hard enough in this economy right now to find work as an inexperience emt, would an ambulance company be any quicker to hire an inexperienced paramedic?
i am not sure what to do.
any opinions would be appreciated


----------



## NomadicMedic (Jul 25, 2011)

Are there any paramedic jobs where you are? Does the paramedic program accept "no experience" EMTs? Are you sure you really want to be a medic? 

Do some research before jumping in.


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 25, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> Are there any paramedic jobs where you are? Does the paramedic program accept "no experience" EMTs?* Are you sure you really want to be a medic?
> *
> Do some research before jumping in.



yes i am sure i want to go the paramedic route,
as far as excepting no experience emt's i will have to find out if the comminuty college even has a program, and what the requirements are to enter the class.

i was just wondering if anybody here had done something similar as to what i am suggesting or if its even possible


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20 minutes after i posted this thread the local ambulance company where i did my emt classes called me for an interview on august 1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!

Wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Hunter (Jul 25, 2011)

Good luck!!!


----------



## daveathlon (Jul 25, 2011)

freebyrd said:


> Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20 minutes after i posted this thread the local ambulance company where i did my emt classes called me for an interview on august 1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!
> 
> Wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



What state are you in? If you're in CA I am pretty sure there aren't any paramedic courses that allow in students without 6 months experience.


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 25, 2011)

daveathlon said:


> What state are you in? If you're in CA I am pretty sure there aren't any paramedic courses that allow in students without 6 months experience.



yup i'm in cali' and your probably right, the ambo co. that called me in doesn't train there medic prospects for six months, so i doubt the college here will either


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jul 25, 2011)

daveathlon said:


> What state are you in? If you're in CA I am pretty sure there aren't any paramedic courses that allow in students without 6 months experience.



There are a couple of paramedic programs in Cali that will take in no experience EMT's. It seems like the majority of them want at least 6 months of experience as an EMT. I've even seen a college where the minimum requirement for the medic interview is 2 years of EMT experience on an ALS 911 unit :unsure:


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 25, 2011)

firefite said:


> There are a couple of paramedic programs in Cali that will take in no experience EMT's. It seems like the majority of them want at least 6 months of experience as an EMT.* I've even seen a college where the minimum requirement for the medic interview is 2 years of EMT experience on *an ALS 911 unit :unsure:



yikes! they don't ask for much do they?


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jul 25, 2011)

freebyrd said:


> yikes! they don't ask for much do they?



That what I was thinking when I read it.


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 25, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> Are there any paramedic jobs where you are? ...
> Do some research before jumping in.


Exactly.  You've already discovered that there are no jobs for EMS there.  Why on earth would you spend more time and money just to drive the point home?


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 25, 2011)

*B-p*

I'd strongly recommend getting at least a year of good solid experience as a BLS provider. Going straight from B-P will make you a very weak paramedic. There are those who will say otherwise... but theyre wrong. Good BLS is the foundation of good ALS


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jul 25, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> I'd strongly recommend getting at least a year of good solid experience as a BLS provider. Going straight from B-P will make you a very weak paramedic. There are those who will say otherwise... but theyre wrong. Good BLS is the foundation of good ALS


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 25, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


>



? You like popcorn


----------



## Sasha (Jul 25, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


>



Shouldnt you be nipping this in the butt before it gets interesting enough for popcorn?

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


----------



## HotelCo (Jul 25, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> I'd strongly recommend getting at least a year of good solid experience as a BLS provider. Going straight from B-P will make you a very weak paramedic. There are those who will say otherwise... but theyre wrong. Good BLS is the foundation of good ALS



This is a bunch of rubbish. 

If you can't get work as an EMT, goto medic school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going from B to P with no road time. While you're in school, you can continue to look for a job. 

Don't listen to people who say you have to work as an EMT in order to be a good paramedic. 

Lifesavingsob (your screenname makes me laugh). Are you unable to use BLS skills in the field without first working as an EMT? I sure remembered BLS, even though I went straight into paramedic school, before I even had my EMT license in my hand. Am I a weak paramedic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jul 25, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Shouldnt you be nipping this in the butt before it gets interesting enough for popcorn?
> 
> Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk



Yeah, but until it gets to that point I'm going to continue to eat my popcorn.


----------



## Sasha (Jul 25, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> This is a bunch of rubbish.
> 
> If you can't get work as an EMT, goto medic school. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going from B to P with no road time. While you're in school, you can continue to look for a job.
> 
> ...



I believe those who preach road time only do it because they are too embarrassed the made the wrong choice.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


----------



## Sasha (Jul 25, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> I'd strongly recommend getting at least a year of good solid experience as a BLS provider. Going straight from B-P will make you a very weak paramedic. There are those who will say otherwise... but theyre wrong. Good BLS is the foundation of good ALS



Youre wrong.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


----------



## Iceman26 (Jul 25, 2011)

freebyrd said:


> yes i am sure i want to go the paramedic route,
> as far as excepting no experience emt's i will have to find out if the comminuty college even has a program, and what the requirements are to enter the class.
> 
> i was just wondering if anybody here had done something similar as to what i am suggesting or if its even possible



It is possible, just depends on the medic program and how long it is, how much it includes in the way of A&P and pharmacology and such. It would be ideal to find an EMT gig while in medic school, or even a tech job in an ER, anything to get some patient experience. That would be ideal during medic school, however, it isn't the end of the world without. One can become a good medic without extensive EMT experience, or any at all, just depends how thorough the paramedic program is with teaching and practicing skills, how many clinical and vehicular/ride hours you do, etc, and the individual's ability to learn. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but the quality and length of the medic program makes a difference and getting experience as an EMT while in school is definitely the best of both worlds. 

If your program is a year and a half long let's say, and the first four or five or so months are A&P and pharmacology and you're working as an EMT most of that time, that's already four or five months experience as an EMT you have under your belt before you even crack open the paramedic textbook, plus the additional time you're gonna get that working experience for the duration of the program AND then your clinical and ride hours on top of it. So again, all depends what your medic program is like but if you jump on a job as an EMT right now, best of both worlds. Work as one while going through medic school.


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Youre wrong.
> 
> Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk



Absolutely not. As a sgt. In a high performance system you can absolutely tell the difference between a medic who worked as a B first and one who went straight through school. AT BEST you get a book smart medic with no street experience. Maybe you can BS your way as an inexperienced medic in a rural or slow system... but you wont make it anywhere with a high call volume or an advanced system. Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

The left coast doesn't do much right, but that I agree with.


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jul 26, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?


Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?


Haha not at all... but requiring six months of experience as a B is a step in the right direction.


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 26, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?


LOL!  Exactly.  That argument died around 1976, when California entered a backwards time warp.

He is right about one thing.  It is definitely easy to pick out the ones with EMT-B experience.  They're the ones who think they know everything, constantly interrupt class with BS war stories, argue with the instructors and preceptors, and screw up with all the bad habits that are almost impossible to break.

There IS something a lot more dangerous than an educated medic with no experience.  It's an experienced medic with inadequate education.


----------



## HotelCo (Jul 26, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> Absolutely not. As a sgt. In a high performance system you can absolutely tell the difference between a medic who worked as a B first and one who went straight through school. AT BEST you get a book smart medic with no street experience. Maybe you can BS your way as an inexperienced medic in a rural or slow system... but you wont make it anywhere with a high call volume or an advanced system. Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?



What sort of "street experience" does an EMT need to become a successful paramedic in a "high performance" system?

I'd venture to say the quality of your paramedic programs in your area are more to blame for your new paramedic's poor performance, than the mythical 'necessary street experience'. 



ffemt8978 said:


> Are you sure you want to use California EMS as the shining standard of your argument?



This, x100.


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 26, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> What sort of "street experience" does an EMT need to become a successful paramedic in a "high performance" system?


For that matter, I'm dying to know what his definition of a "high-performance system" is.  I'm betting he doesn't have a clue.


----------



## reaper (Jul 26, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> Absolutely not. As a sgt. In a high performance system you can absolutely tell the difference between a medic who worked as a B first and one who went straight through school. AT BEST you get a book smart medic with no street experience. Maybe you can BS your way as an inexperienced medic in a rural or slow system... but you wont make it anywhere with a high call volume or an advanced system. Maybe theres a reason California is requiring 6 months experience?



Sorry, poor medics never make it in a rural system. They can be abundant in busy "high performance" systems. I will take a straight thru medic over an experienced EMT with lots of bad habits and bad attitudes!


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

80,000 calls a year, per capita the highest volume in the US. I'm sorry that all of you are so misinformed/had bad experiences/whatever the case may be, but you're still wrong. If you have well trained emt's who are taught correctly (like ours), they make exceptional medics, and much better medics than those with no experience. I'm sorry the emt's yall deal with are not held to very good standards; judging by some of the posts I've read on here there are some pretty ignorant providers running around out there. If the emt's are idiots, then of course theyll be a terrible paramedic.


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 26, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> 80,000 calls a year, per capita the highest volume in the US.


Wait... are you saying that "high volume" and "high performance" are the same thing?  I thought you said you guys were well educated!  Back to the google with you.  :rofl:



> I'm sorry that all of you are so misinformed/had bad experiences/whatever the case may be, but you're still wrong. If you have well trained emt's who are taught correctly (like ours), they make exceptional medics, and much better medics than those with no experience.


So, with your vast experience in a grand total of one system, you're prepared to say the rest of the world is wrong?  That is exactly why EMS sucks in this country.  Attitudes like that.

I've worked in more countries than you have cities, so yes, I am qualified to tell you that you're wrong.  And if you had any real quality education and experience, I wouldn't have to tell you.  Pick up a JEMS sometime.  There is a whole world outside of your "high performance" system.


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

AJ Hidell said:


> Wait... are you saying that "high volume" and "high performance" are the same thing?  I thought you said you guys were well educated!  Back to the google with you.  :rofl:
> 
> 
> So, with your vast experience in a grand total of one system, you're prepared to say the rest of the world is wrong?  That is exactly why EMS sucks in this country.  Attitudes like that.
> ...


Haha ok Aj... as a retiree and long time poster on this sight I'm sure it is hard to hear that you are wrong. We do have a very high volume, and because of that we are able to one of the national leaders in ems research and development. We run one of the most high performance systems in the country. 
Now, congratulations on a successful career, but having worked in multiple countries does not make you qualified to tell me you are an expert on this subject. I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you... but the bottom line is a well trained, experienced emt makes a better paramedic then a paramedic would no street time. Everyone is saying that emts with experience make terrible medics, so I simply assumed that all the emt's yall are dealing wih are idiots. It's your attitude giving ems a bad rep, not mine.


----------



## EPICMEDIC (Jul 26, 2011)

Quoting JEMS as a argument point? JEMS is half the reason EMS is where it is today. Experience or not, clinical time is what makes the difference. That and allegiance to the NREMT, the biggest fraud of EMS. Thats great that you havent been able to have steady employment, but resorting to JEMS as argument point automatically discredits anything you have to say. Most kindergarten children could read JEMS and understand it.


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jul 26, 2011)

Play nice or become the focus of my complete and undivided attention


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 26, 2011)

wow guess i stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.
truth be told i am a real hands on guy and would rather have more patient contacts and practical experience under my belt.
but all you guys make some excellent arguments


----------



## EPICMEDIC (Jul 26, 2011)

Sir, can you explain to me how it is that someone can have a poll asking if you have sex with your partner but you get upset when I ask about JEMS?


----------



## Iceman26 (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm not so sure that was directed at you. Certainly not only at you, if it was at all.


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

EPICMEDIC said:


> Sir, can you explain to me how it is that someone can have a poll asking if you have sex with your partner but you get upset when I ask about JEMS?



Exactly. Were having a very civil, grown up conversation.


----------



## lifesavingsob (Jul 26, 2011)

freebyrd said:


> wow guess i stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.
> truth be told i am a real hands on guy and would rather have more patient contacts and practical experience under my belt.
> but all you guys make some excellent arguments


Practical experience will help you the most, good luck in your career!


----------



## firetender (Jul 26, 2011)

*Back to the Original Post*

...as a rule I've always fallen in on the experience first, Basic Kine makes a better Paramedic. But if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit that I have seen many surprises; 18 Month Wonders from EMT to EMT-P who slipped right in to their rhythms and -- after a couple humbling/harrowing mistakes -- turned out to be dam good medics!

I've also seen EMT's who worked long and hard as Basics and once in the field as paramedic, may as well have never been in the back of an ambulance. Some people can't quick-learn but they can slowly absorb and adapt.

So, I guess there can't be an "Across the board" statement for me. 

One of the things that is most interesting to me about EMS (and, in fact keeps me coming back here!) is how much I'm learning about the diversity of approaches that medics take to their work. 

Let's just say that even though I may not quite understand some attitudes on this site, in the long-run, MOST of the medics who stick around long enough reveal themselves to be highly competent and concerned practitioners who pretty much set high personal standards for themselves. They walk the talk by being available to teach, and listen, and the commonality that bugs us all is they don't hold back on what they believe.

(They also understand about limits and boundaries and intention to contribute.)

So what I'm saying is, if it works for you, work it!

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Sasha (Jul 26, 2011)

California has probably the poorest excuse for an ems system... so your argument carries absolutely no weight!

Youre wrong.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


----------



## sir.shocksalot (Jul 26, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> Practical experience will help you the most, good luck in your career!


So I feel like I am well qualified to add something to this conversation. I started as a basic, had 2 years+ road time in an ALS truck, then went to Paramedic school. I can say with absolute certainty that a good basic doesn't always equal a good paramedic.

The argument of you do or do not need experience as a basic is irrelevant, I have seen good and bad medics come from both. I can say that nothing I learned as a basic really helped me in medic school. The thought process of a medic is far different than that of a basic. As a basic I was taught lower left or right quadrant abd pain described as sharp in a possibly pregnant female was an ectopic pregnancy. As a medic I was taught that the same pain could be any large number of things that must be evaluated to rule in/out their likelihood of being the disease and to treat and refer as needed.

I think the greatest benefit is knowing what you are getting into. If you hate working as a basic with BS calls and what not, then you will hate being a medic.

That all said, each school is different. Each individual going through medic school is different. There will be graduates from programs requiring experience who will be cocky but won't know their head from a hole in the ground. Same can be said for zero to hero programs.

OP your best bet is to scope out your local area and see what people think of zero to hero medics. If the area is really unfriendly to zero to hero medics then going to medic school might make it harder to get a job in your area. If local EMS people don't care, do it. Just watch your ego, study hard, and be open to the suggestions of others. There is always something to learn in medicine, and it can be learned from anyone, from the lowest tech to the greatest physician.

And to all the posters saying "I'm right, you're wrong...yada yada yada." Keeping your ears plugged and shouting your point of view isn't a great way to debate, you can view evidence of this by watching our congress do the same thing. That's what 2 year olds do. There is no right or wrong opinion, just opinions from different perspectives.


----------



## Elk Oil (Jul 26, 2011)

freebyrd said:


> i graduated at the beginning of may and passed nremt a couple of weeks later got my state cert and all that,
> i eventually wanted to go on to be a paramedic anyway, but i was hoping to get on with the ambulance company who will pay for it
> but i am not sure its going to work out,
> so i was thinking of looking into my community college locally and see if they offered a paramedic course.
> ...



I think that if you have experience caring for patients in an EMS setting, you're gaining an important context for additional education.  Having said that, you must gain book knowledge when learning your subject matter, so striking a good balance for you is important.  If you're particularly good in a classroom setting, gain that knowledge and then apply it in the street.  If  you're better at hands-on stuff, you may find it helpful to work in EMS while you're taking classes so you can relate the subject to actual experiences.

It's all about putting in a context that works best for you.  Best of luck!


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 26, 2011)

firetender said:


> ...as a rule I've always fallen in on the experience first, Basic Kine makes a better Paramedic. But if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit that I have seen many surprises; 18 Month Wonders from EMT to EMT-P who slipped right in to their rhythms and -- after a couple humbling/harrowing mistakes -- turned out to be dam good medics!
> 
> I've also seen EMT's who worked long and hard as Basics and once in the field as paramedic, may as well have never been in the back of an ambulance. Some people can't quick-learn but they can slowly absorb and adapt.
> 
> ...


thanks i will, and what a great bunch of replies


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 26, 2011)

Sasha said:


> California has probably the poorest excuse for an ems system... so your argument carries absolutely no weight!
> 
> Youre wrong.
> 
> Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk



you know, it helps to use the quote button when you make this kind of statement so it is clear who your replying to


----------



## Hunter (Jul 26, 2011)

In MY experience, I can break experience down in two ways:

From working in a privite ambulance company I learned to talk to my patients more, initial assessment and it helped solidify the basics, Not only that it showed me that there are some amazing EMT-Bs out there, and at the same time, there are some people who should have their licenses revoked just from the way they talk to patients. I actually had one who took a "visually" BP once... What I learned doing my ride-alongs with fire department was everything else; I treated real wounds, breaks, codes, real emergency's, ect. I saw for the most part some great medics and a few terrible ones who I could do a better job than them.

EXPERIENCE as a whole can be good or bad, it just depends what kind of experience and how to take that experience. If you see someone take a short cut that's dangerous you can react one of two ways, 1. "Hey thats awesome, saves me work." or 2. "Wth?! Tat's dangerous this **** Is gonna get someone killed!" If you're reaction is #1 than you'll be a bad medic no matter what, and if you're #2, you have a much better chance of being a good medic.


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 26, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> We do have a very high volume, and because of that we are able to one of the national leaders in ems research and development. *We run one of the most high performance systems in the country. ... I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you..*


In other words, you lack the intelligent information necessary to respond.  It is very obvious from your posts that you still haven't bothered to look up the definition of a "high performance system."  So much for all your world-class "research and development."  If you ever admit that you don't know what you are talking about long enough to look it up, you'll realise how silly you are sounding.  And the rest of your argument is equally invalid.



EPICMEDIC said:


> Quoting JEMS as a argument point?


Been reading English long?  Nobody quoted JEMS.  Heck, even Wikipedia is more realistic than JEMS.


----------



## Tux (Jul 27, 2011)

In my world, (which currently has nothing to do with ems) there is nothing more demeaning or frustrating then having someone who out ranks you but has no idea how to do your job, telling you how to do your job. I have no experience in your area of expertise, but i think book smart is never the equivalent to hands on experience in any job.


----------



## DrParasite (Jul 27, 2011)

AJ Hidell said:


> In other words, you lack the intelligent information necessary to respond.  It is very obvious from your posts that you still haven't bothered to look up the definition of a "high performance system."  So much for all your world-class "research and development."  If you ever admit that you don't know what you are talking about long enough to look it up, you'll realise how silly you are sounding.  And the rest of your argument is equally invalid.


I can see where this is going:  the subjective definition of high performance system is going to result in a huge genital measuring contest, when the definition that you are looking for doesn't exist; rather, each person's definition is different based on their own opinions.  and not because your argument is wrong, but because your point of view isn't the same as mine, instead of actually responding to your statement, I am just going to launch an attack against your character instead.



AJ Hidell said:


> Been reading English long?  Nobody quoted JEMS.  Heck, even Wikipedia is more realistic than JEMS.


you know, I might be bordering on illiterate, but didn't you post this?





AJ Hidell said:


> Pick up a JEMS sometime.  There is a whole world outside of your "high performance" system.



Personally, I think the more sick patient contacts a paramedic has, the better a paramedic they are/will be.   Similarly, if you see only patient who need advance life support intervention, you will be better at assessing and treating sick people.  

The same logic extends to BLS providers.  If you never deal with any sick patients, how do you know what one looks like?  what about a borderline one?  If you have never been on an ambulance before your paramedic clinical, all you know if what you read in the book, and have never actually done an assessment, and never actually did the job.   Most paramedics I speak to have said if you are a poor EMT you will be a poor paramedic, and just because you are a good EMT there is no guarantee you will be a good medic.

Now, do we all know zero to hero medics who were successful?  sure.  do we all know fire medics   who know their stuff?  sure.  conversely, do you know zero to hero medics who were sucky providers?  and fire medics that you wouldn't trust to treat  your worst enemy's pet iguana?  absolutely.  and we all know traditional 1-2 year program graduates who are great paramedics, and others who I wonder how they ever passed 3rd grade.

to the OP, should you go to medic school?  sure, why not.  but before you do, check out the market, can you get hired as a paramedic with no experience?  ask around, see who is hiring, and what their requirements are.  some require a year of experience before they will look at you.  you don't want to complete medic school only to find after you graduate you still can't get a job.


----------



## Iceman26 (Jul 27, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> Now, do we all know zero to hero medics who were successful?  sure.  do we all know fire medics   who know their stuff?  sure.  conversely, do you know zero to hero medics who were sucky providers?  and fire medics that you wouldn't trust to treat  your worst enemy's pet iguana?  absolutely.  and we all know traditional 1-2 year program graduates who are great paramedics, and others who I wonder how they ever passed 3rd grade.
> 
> to the OP, should you go to medic school?  sure, why not.  but before you do, check out the market, can you get hired as a paramedic with no experience?  ask around, see who is hiring, and what their requirements are.  some require a year of experience before they will look at you.  you don't want to complete medic school only to find after you graduate you still can't get a job.



This all about sums it up. Well said.


----------



## fast65 (Jul 27, 2011)

lifesavingsob said:


> 80,000 calls a year, per capita the highest volume in the US. I'm sorry that all of you are so misinformed/had bad experiences/whatever the case may be, but you're still wrong. If you have well trained emt's who are taught correctly (like ours), they make exceptional medics, and much better medics than those with no experience. I'm sorry the emt's yall deal with are not held to very good standards; *judging by some of the posts I've read on here there are some pretty ignorant providers running around out there.* If the emt's are idiots, then of course theyll be a terrible paramedic.



This is the statement that I found to be the most interesting of all. You're saying that there are a number of "ignorant providers" out there, when you yourself are displaying the epitome of ignorance. You see, you are absolutely set in the belief that you are correct and anybody that disagrees with you is a bumbling idiot. This is medicine that we're talking about, it's a field that requires somewhat of an open mind, we have to be able to be open to new treatments, new skills, devices, etc. Sure, it's absolutely fine to have your own opinion, and to defend it of course, but when you completely shut everyone else out with no justification for your point other than "no, you're wrong", then that just screams ignorance and a lack of understanding.

Back to the topic at hand. I've seen many medics that went straight from EMT-B to EMT-P, a few of them are some of the best medics I've ever met, and others, well, they're not. I've also seen medics that had some basic experience before going to paramedic school, and there are also some good and bad medics in that bunch. It really depends on the school and on the person, if you have a student with a lot of BLS experience that's already set in their ways and closes out all new learning experiences, then you'll end up with a bad medic. But, if you have a student with no experience that wants to learn, and strives to continually improve themselves, then you'll end up with a good medic and vice versa. 

Personally, I went straight to medic school after basic, and I'd like to think that I'm doing a pretty good job so far. Can I be better? Absolutely, and I'm working hard to improve every day. It seems that we'll be advocating for whatever experience we had, so really, this is just another one of those endless debates that will continue to pop up until the end of time. 

Anyways, to the OP, if you know that EMS is something you really want to do, and you are willing to put the time and effort into medic school, then go for it. Good luck!


----------



## Afflixion (Jul 27, 2011)

Sorry to jump in late, but I don't get on much anymore.

With that out of the way, I did around 8 or 9 months as a EMT before going on to becoming a paramedic... in all honesty those few months as a EMT did nothing at all that benefited me in school as a paramedic. From there I entered the Army having working knowledge as an EMT did nothing for me there either but being a paramedic helped me quite a bit. I finished up my bachelors degree in the army and went to PA school. Moral of the story is I did not got EMT>EMT-I>Paramedic>LVN>RN>BSN>PA and I can be pretty sure my "BLS" skills are on par along with my ability to practice medicine.

TLDR: Go to medic school preferably at a college where you will get real education. not "Joe Snuffy's EMS Academy"


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 28, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> the subjective definition of high performance system is going to result in a huge genital measuring contest, when the definition that you are looking for doesn't exist; rather, each person's definition is different based on their own opinions.


Uhhh... no.  A "high performance system" in EMS is a very specific entity that does not vary from person to person, just like a broken bone.  It has been very clearly defined since the erly 80s.  Again, had you spent two minutes on the google -- or even a couple of years in 21st century EMS -- you would know that.  Here's a little clue for you, since you obviously intend to remain ignorant: being a "high performance" system is NOT something to be proud of.  It means you run primarily non-emergency IFTs, with only a smaller portion of your runs being EMS.  Hardly anything that qualifies you to know anything about EMS, which you clearly don't.

I'm not attacking your character.  I'm attacking your factual ignorance.



> you know, I might be bordering on illiterate, but didn't you post this?


I did.  And yes, if you saw me "quote" JEMS anywhere, put down the crack pipe, because you are hallucinating.


----------



## crazycajun (Jul 29, 2011)

AJ Hidell said:


> Uhhh... no.  A "high performance system" in EMS is a very specific entity that does not vary from person to person, just like a broken bone.  It has been very clearly defined since the erly 80s.  Again, had you spent two minutes on the google -- or even a couple of years in 21st century EMS -- you would know that.  Here's a little clue for you, since you obviously intend to remain ignorant: being a "high performance" system is NOT something to be proud of.  It means you run primarily non-emergency IFTs, with only a smaller portion of your runs being EMS.  Hardly anything that qualifies you to know anything about EMS, which you clearly don't.
> 
> I'm not attacking your character.  I'm attacking your factual ignorance.
> 
> ...



The term "High Performance EMS System" was coined years ago by IFT companies. Although they claim to be "HPEMS" they are in fact in most cases not. The definition of High Performance is very simply. It is to modify something to make it better than the standard. Many EMS 911 systems are in fact High Performance. Those systems have dedicated to not only be above and beyond the rest in technology, but educated experienced employees as well. Our system in Eastern South Carolina is quickly working towards being defined as an HPEMS. We have added not only technology above most (Real Time Data Transfer, Doppler, Automated PCR w/ PT recall, cutting edge dispatching system, advanced system protocols, etc.) we are currently changing protocols to change our hiring practices. Some of these include, eliminate the hiring of EMT-B, Require all EMT-I to advance to Paramedic within 3 years of hire, Paramedics must have associate degrees, etc. We are a county 911 service that does not run any IFT's by the way so your theories are incorrect.


----------



## AJ Hidell (Jul 29, 2011)

crazycajun said:


> Our system in Eastern South Carolina is quickly working towards being defined as an HPEMS. We have added not only technology above most (Real Time Data Transfer, Doppler, Automated PCR w/ PT recall, cutting edge dispatching system, advanced system protocols, etc.) we are currently changing protocols to change our hiring practices. Some of these include, eliminate the hiring of EMT-B, Require all EMT-I to advance to Paramedic within 3 years of hire, Paramedics must have associate degrees, etc. We are a county 911 service that does not run any IFT's by the way so your theories are incorrect.


That's not high performance.  That's just plain awesome!  Don't cheapen yourselves with the HP label.


----------



## MrBrown (Jul 29, 2011)

Sure bro go to Paramedic school then sit around for however long it takes you to get a job with no experience and be rusty on top of being so horrendously under educated it is criminal, that will make you an awesome Paramedic!

Not, bro go work at the burger place (which probably pays more) so Brown can come in and get a greasy, fatty, artery clogging burger because Brown is hungry right now yeah?

/taking the piss


----------



## Sodapop (Jul 29, 2011)

*Original Post*

My .02 to the OP would be to consider if there are jobs for medics in your area or if you are willing to relocate.  I am in Cali and in Medic school here.  I have had my EMT in Cali over a year and there are no jobs around here.  Friends who work as EMT's that have gotten their medic can not even work as medics with their company until positions open so they sit in the drivers seat with a p-card in their wallet making EMT wages.

I do not intend to remain in Cali for a number of reasons and the poor EMS system is only one.  I have worked in the south east as an EMT and the systems are head and shoulders above anything I have witnessed in Cali.

If you do choose to go the medic route there are schools in Cali that will take you with no experience.  I have classmates that have no experience but they will have to prove themselves in many months of clinical internship. We also have experienced EMTs who are not doing nearly as well in the class so I feel it depends on the individual and the program they attend.


----------



## CheifBud (Jul 31, 2011)

*My way = highway ?*

I actually made an account because this bothered me so much.  I'm not making an eloquent long winded speech about how my opinion is law and because I'm on the internet any need for understanding or respect is thrown out the window.

If you haven't by now found out you're never going to get a straight answer; while some feel, I'm sorry, know for a fact of life and anyone else is just stupid, that experience at the EMT-B level is essential to become a decent medic.  And of course the other side of the highway where you could do fine, neigh even benefit from going EMT-B > Medic with no to little experience.  

So, to negate everyone's and I guess even mine at the same time; How do YOU feel about going from EMT-B to Medic.  I am in the exact same boat as you I should specify, now would I love some hands on experience?  You better believe I'll take any minute I can to learn and well, experience EMS, Most of my local towns even have waiting lists for VOLOUNTEERS which I would love to do.  That being said I have a life and goals and I won't let completion of those goals is not going to be contingent on my "local" job market and my most basic level of training if I can help it.  I say "Local" because once I obtain Medic I will hopefully be moving which will allot me a much greater employer pool.
Experience is good..... there is no question about it.  That is the reason we crawl > walk, training wheels > two wheels, high school > college
As I said earlier I will take ANY opportunity to learn and gain knowledge on ANYTHING even healthcare related and will approach any job with the utmost humility.  I spend a ton of time looking over old textbooks, watching hours of medical lectures on Youtube (Me not having a girlfriend may be part of the reason) and am addicted to learning anything I can and after skating through my EMT-B class with over 90% on EVERY piece of work stoned out of my mind while helping 35 y.o. grown men drop tubes and splint arms who I feel couldn't provide care to a hamster, and others who excelled at the class it was very obvious the training may be consistent but the EMT will never be.  My point being if you feel competent with what you are doing, comfortable with you knowledge and want to achieve Medic regardless.... DO IT and learn everything you can, get your hands on everything you can and try to be the best damn Medic you can be, experience or not I plan on finding out every in and out of my local EMS system to the nth degree as if I was a newborn!! :rofl:


----------



## dlemberg (Jul 31, 2011)

Awsome!


----------



## freebyrd (Jul 31, 2011)

CheifBud said:


> I actually made an account because this bothered me so much.  I'm not making an eloquent long winded speech about how my opinion is law and because I'm on the internet any need for understanding or respect is thrown out the window.
> 
> If you haven't by now found out you're never going to get a straight answer; while some feel, I'm sorry, know for a fact of life and anyone else is just stupid, that experience at the EMT-B level is essential to become a decent medic.  And of course the other side of the highway where you could do fine, neigh even benefit from going EMT-B > Medic with no to little experience.
> 
> ...



very sage words of advice, as far as how i feel,

you may have missed it in an earlier reply but all things being equal (and of course understanding that they are not)
i would certainly rather have some hands on experience, it never hurts in my opinion to learn in the environment that you wish to work in.
anyway it has been an interesting week, my interview is tomorrow at 10 am and i have been reviewing basic material over the last several days.
my wife seems to think that since i went to school there and they have access to all my records that that is a good thing for me.
can't really argue with that since i was ace's in the class and finished with academic excellence and all that stuff...blah blah blah..etc..
but who knows maybe they'll go harder on me 
well wish me luck


----------



## CheifBud (Jul 31, 2011)

BEST of luck to you, and I would think them already having a good feel for your character should help immensely^_^.  I hope to take the medic program offered by my local hospital hoping that will help in the same manner when I look for a nursing job at that location.

YOU HAVE THIS IN THE BAG, hope the job goes well


----------



## freebyrd (Aug 1, 2011)

well here is what happened so far

 i went to the ambulance company where i went to school for an interview that they scheduled for me last week,

there was no testing or scenarios or anything
they only asked me one medical related question.

they have all my records they have all my test scores i did my practicals with this company so i guess they know all they need to know about my abilities and they just said they wanted to get to know me,

i conducted many interviews like this myself when i was a manager for walmart so i was pretty familiar with the formula 
the standard stuff,
why do you want to work here?
what are your long term goals?
what is your availability like?
so they gave me a sheet that says day after tomorrow they are conducting the physical portion of the interview process at the local football stadium.
and to expect a call in the next 24 hrs
i am not worried about the physical portion, i am in pretty good shape.
it consists of 
lifting 250 lbs with a partner on a backboard
walking 88 stairs carrying a cardiac monitor and treatment box and doing 2 minutes of chest compressions on a manikin
walking 200 feet while carrying a gurney to a simulated life flight LZ 
then once you pass that there is a second interview with a general manager at which point you will be compared to other applicants and offered a position,
i expect all to go well


----------



## anderson221 (Aug 2, 2011)

you can find all information that you needed here emttrainingcenter.org
 everything you need is there..

thanks..


----------



## Artst10 (Aug 2, 2011)

*Maybe I should repost my employment issues*



freebyrd said:


> Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20 minutes after i posted this thread the local ambulance company where i did my emt classes called me for an interview on august 1st!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!
> 
> Wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Good Luck!!! 

 I wonder if it would work for me  I graduated last August with my EMT Basic , was MA licensed in March and now have my National certs. The only trouble I'm having is getting a position with no prior EMT experience. I've been a first responder for 7 years as a lifeguard so I know I can respond in an emergency. Now with the closing of two NH ambulance companies my competition just went way up.  I am very sorry for those who will be loosing their employment but I would think they'd have a greater chance to get another job than those without the experience.


----------



## freebyrd (Aug 3, 2011)

kind of bummed, they decided not to advance me to the second round,
i feel like i'm playing jeopardy :sad:


----------



## Kale (Aug 4, 2011)

Don't be too discouraged man, it can take a lot of time and a few false starts before you finally get your first job. I got my NREMT last October, am certified in two different states (AZ and CA) and was unable to find work in either of them until, literally, 2 weeks ago. I got a phone call from an ambo company here in AZ that had passed me over months earlier (stating that while I was "successful in their recruiting process, they were unable to offer me a position at this time"). I was, to say the least, completely taken by surprise.

Before that I was offered only a few interviews - there's very few options in AZ to begin with, especially as we don't have tons of ITF-only companies and EMS is mainly FD dominated - one of which I had to forfeit because it was a reserve position and required me to live 30 mins or less from the station when I lived about two hours away.

In CA, it was one wall after another, even with IFT only companies.

In short, it sucks out there right now. I was also an ace in my EMT course and I came out of that class with something of an expectation to get a job within a couple of months. It didn't pan out that way but it did eventually pan out. Keep at it and don't lose heart. Good luck!


----------



## Handsome Rob (Aug 4, 2011)

If you are near LA, PM me and you will have a job.


sent from my mobile command center. or phone. whatever.


----------



## EMTBHillbilly (Aug 5, 2011)

Lots of opinion here, so let me ad mine.

I've been working as an EMT on an ALS 911 truck for the past 8 months.  Prior to that I had absolutely no experience in EMS, fire fighting, healthcare, etc.
I am starting medic school in a couple weeks.  Without the 8 months experience working with some great people who taught me a lot, I can't imagine having a clue in medic school or how I could function when I get out.
I'm very grateful for my experience.
I know good medics who had no experience before medic school and bad medics who had lots of EMT experience.


----------



## CheifBud (Aug 5, 2011)

freebyrd said:


> kind of bummed, they decided not to advance me to the second round,
> i feel like i'm playing jeopardy :sad:



This bums me out too


----------



## MrBrown (Aug 5, 2011)

Handsome Rob said:


> If you are near LA, PM me and you will have a job..



If we can get Mrs Brown to move to LA Brown will come work for you, provided Brown doesn't have to drive


----------



## CheifBud (Aug 5, 2011)

I should specify.  This bums me out since I just applied for two different ED-tech jobs that are listed as openings requesting employment which made me feel somewhat hopeful, buuuuut this just crushes those dreams, I'm not even getting my hopes up for a phone call


----------

