# Off-Duty Response



## TreySpooner65

Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle. Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform. You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.

The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.

Do you go to the fast food restaurant?


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## Chris07

An interesting question. Although this turns into a  "doing a good turn" vs. "observing my off time" dilemma for me, the answer is pretty straight forward. For the sake of the scenario I would respond, and here's why:

- I've obviously nothing better to do as evident by listening in on the local radio traffic
- I've obviously been waiting for something like this for a long time since I have a scanner in my POV and have been listening to it long enough to anticipate local response times.
- All of the above point to a Ricky Rescue complex.
- No duty to act laws (Which I assume would allow me to be protected by Good Sam laws).
- This is a Ricky Rescue's dream!


In all seriousness, unless something happens right in front of me, and it is within my power to do something meaningful then I consider taking action. In this case, I'm hearing about it over the air, and may not have the full picture. "On the ground and not breathing" could mean full arrest, or it could be something completely different. With such uncertainty I would rather not risk racing down the street with my pocket mask and a pair of gloves while off duty. As a BLS provider (Which even Medics are when off-duty) what can I possibly offer that a 911 dispatcher can't instruct bystanders to do?


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## rwik123

This is the whacker version of the perfect storm.


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## Handsome Robb

TreySpooner65 said:


> Do you go to the fast food restaurant?



Nope. Call me an :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: but it's not my problem. 

Like someone said, if someone drops and is pulseless and apneic in front of me I will absolutely do CPR/AED but you wont know I'm a medic until the responding crew shows up and starts talking to me. 

I've been on the other side of this, having ricky rescue show up on my scene and it can be rather frustrating.


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## NomadicMedic

Two of my friends were on the medic unit that serves my area. They texted me, "we jut got dispatched to a cardiac arrest by your house." I knew they'd be about 6 to 8 minutes before they could get there, so I just sauntered down to see if I could lend a hand. 

Not an arrest, in fact 'twas an intoxicated "drama mama". 

That was my Ricky rescue moment for the year.


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## Anjel

NVRob said:


> Nope. Call me an :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: but it's not my problem.
> 
> Like someone said, if someone drops and is pulseless and apneic in front of me I will absolutely do CPR/AED but you wont know I'm a medic until the responding crew shows up and starts talking to me.
> 
> I've been on the other side of this, having ricky rescue show up on my scene and it can be rather frustrating.



You are an :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: haha jk you told me to.


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## Achilles

I went to my neighbor across the street when I seen two PD cars there, they've had problems before so I figured I'd see what's up. Turns out he just fell out of bed. Took his pulse and FD transported to a lvl 2 tc.
I have know. Him for about ten years and he's 85.
Doesn't some city in CA have an app that alerts CPR card holders and gives detailed info?


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## martor

Achilles said:


> I went to my neighbor across the street when I seen two PD cars there, they've had problems before so I figured I'd see what's up. Turns out he just fell out of bed. Took his pulse and FD transported to a lvl 2 tc.
> I have know. Him for about ten years and he's 85.
> Doesn't some city in CA have an app that alerts CPR card holders and gives detailed info?



This app doesnt sound very "privacy" laws obedient. Also my phone doesnt know i am a cpr card holder (although it would be nice through since i have no idea where the card actually is.) 

I am sure somebody in that restaurant knows cpr. Let it go and go home.


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## lightsandsirens5

Achilles said:


> I went to my neighbor across the street when I seen two PD cars there, they've had problems before so I figured I'd see what's up. Turns out he just fell out of bed. Took his pulse and FD transported to a lvl 2 tc.
> I have know. Him for about ten years and he's 85.
> *Doesn't some city in CA have an app that alerts CPR card holders and gives detailed info?*




That is scary......

And I'd say neighbors and friends are a different matter entirely.


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## DesertMedic66

Nope. I continue on with my day and my plans.


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## Tigger

Absolutely not. How would you feel if you had to call 911 and then out of nowhere some bro shows up out of nowhere and says he is here to help? I would tell him to pound sand in the kindest of manners. 

It's one thing to come across something as it happens or to see a cop at your neighbor or friends house grab the medical kit from his cruiser. It is quite a different thing to self dispatch yourself to a call in which EMS is already coming. The patient requested an ambulance, not you.


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## leoemt

TreySpooner65 said:


> Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle. Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform. You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.
> 
> The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.
> 
> Do you go to the fast food restaurant?



The bottom line is what are you going to do if you respond? Aside from CPR, there isn't much a lay person with no equipment can do for a legitimate "man down" call. 

It would be hard to justify your response. If you show up and identify yourself as an EMT then you are likely out of Good Samaritan Law coverage. If you identify yourself with a particular department then you are likely going to be in trouble when you go back to work. 

Would the responders recognize you? Your in a public establishment, would the scene be safe...I know the cop in me would be giving you a very hard time if I saw you jump into the scene and begin working a patient if you were "off duty". 

While morally you may want to help, you need to recognize that you can't save the world. Unless its a family member or friend, I am not going. That doesn't mean I wouldn't assist someone who collapsed in front of me, but any assistance I provide is limited to lay person first aid when I am off duty.


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## Anjel

My advice is to take the scanner out of your car, take the jump out of your backseat, and unhook the light bar that i am sure you have on your roof.

Be happy going to work, doing a job, making a difference. Then go home and just be normal like everybody else does.


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## Medic Tim

leoemt said:


> If you show up and identify yourself as an EMT then you are likely out of Good Samaritan Law coverage. .



I agree with most of what you said except for the above statement. I agree it is a bad idea to identify yourself as an emt or work for X service. People need to understand the laws of their state. In a previous thread someone posted a link to the Washington State good samaritan law showing the above comment is not true.


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## firetender

In my world, even though I'm the guy who always gets appalled at medics off-duty who scream they wouldn't dare, I think this is over-seeking.

Just the fact that you ascribe urgency to your part in it means you're mis-judging. It's REALLY not your call! That means you're most likely to slam into the responding ambulance as you try to fill in the gap.


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## TransportJockey

Not on duty, not my call. I'm gonna go do whatever I was doing and not worry about the call


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## DrParasite

TreySpooner65 said:


> Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle.


problem: if you are off duty, why are you driving around in your POV with a scanner?





TreySpooner65 said:


> Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform.


even if you're in uniform, if you aren't at work, you don't have a duty to act, especially if you are off duty.  it's bad PR (cue FDNY EMS dispatchers), but there is not obligation to do something.  





TreySpooner65 said:


> but no You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.
> 
> The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.
> 
> Do you go to the fast food restaurant?


absolutely not.  911 has been notified, the professionals/AHJ have the assignment, and are handling it appropriately.  

it's one thing to walk into the mcdonalds and see the man laying there.  its another thing to self dispatch to a location without proper equipment in a jurisdiction that isn't your own when  you haven't been requested to go

either way, sounds like a bad idea from beginning to end.


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## Achilles

Here's a news article.
http://alameda.patch.com/articles/afd-mobile-phone-app-will-help-save-lives


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## leoemt

Medic Tim said:


> I agree with most of what you said except for the above statement. I agree it is a bad idea to identify yourself as an emt or work for X service. People need to understand the laws of their state. In a previous thread someone posted a link to the Washington State good samaritan law showing the above comment is not true.



Someone posted the link because they thought it wasn't true here in WA.

The minute you identify yourself as a professional you enter a whole different standard in legal expectations. 

It falls to the Reasonable Standard principle. 

The exception being a volunteer who is within the scope of their department SOP's and the county MPD directives. 

 If you read RCW 4.24.300 which is our good samaritan law you will see that volunteers and professional medical providers acting WITHOUT compensation and in an official capacity (i.e. at a health clinic) will be covered. It does NOT protect an EMS worker who decides to render aid at an accident scene. 

Like you said, it comes down to knowing your laws.


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## Handsome Robb

leoemt said:


> Like you said, it comes down to knowing your laws.



Spoken like a true cop and I couldn't agree more. 

Personally, if you're off duty, mind your own business unless something happens right in front of you and there is something you can do to help other than be a hand to hold. Just my opinion.


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## Milla3P

TreySpooner65 said:


> Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle. Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform. You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.
> 
> The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.
> 
> Do you go to the fast food restaurant?



Are you in an area that is covered by a volunteer or semi-volunteer agency?

Does this agency permit responding to the scene of a possible emergency in your POV?

Are you a member of said agency/ covered by their liability insurance?

If No to any of these then ABSOLUTELY NOT. 

If No to any of these why do you have a scanner?

Who or what is going to protect/ cover you if YOU become injured or your property is damaged on the way?

Forget about Good Samaritan Laws and Duty to Act. Think about your well being, turn of your Whacker Box and go watch a movie or another episode of Emergency!

Now let's all take a breather and wait 3 weeks until someone else asks this question again.


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## RocketMedic

When I worked at a hospital, I was often the second-out crew (on-duty, but not first-out). Uniformed, paid (somewhat) and on-duty.

We'd occasionally respond POV to things we knew the first crew would need a hand on, but that was only with coordination with the crew.


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## medic17

martor said:


> I am sure somebody in that restaurant knows cpr. Let it go and go home.



There is a big difference between a medic's CPR and that of a bystander even at BLS no equipment level. The average CPR card holder has never ran a code and tends to forget the rhythm and depth needed (something that is hard to instruct over a phone). The chances of someone really knowing CPR who only had 20 hrs or so of training a year ago are slim. That said i would not scan the  911 frequency looking for a code.


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## bigbaldguy

Tigger said:


> Absolutely not. How would you feel if you had to call 911 and then out of nowhere some bro shows up out of nowhere and says he is here to help?



Ummm that's kinda how 911 always works, I thought it was kinda the point.


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## EMSrush

I wouldn't have a scanner in my vehicle. But if I did, no, I would not respond. I'm off, and it's not my call. The only way I could come close to intervening is if it happened right in front of me. But to go and search out a patient? Nope.


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## bigbaldguy

leoemt said:


> If you read RCW 4.24.300 which is our good samaritan law you will see that volunteers and professional medical providers acting WITHOUT compensation and in an official capacity (i.e. at a health clinic) will be covered. It does NOT protect an EMS worker who decides to render aid at an accident scene.



Umm yeah it does.

It doesn't use the term "accident scene" it uses the term "scene of an emergency". A guy going down in a restaurant would qualify.

*Any person, including but not limited to*, a volunteer provider of emergency or medical services, who without compensation or the expectation of compensation renders emergency care at the scene of an emergency or who participates in transporting, not for compensation, therefrom an injured person or persons for emergency medical treatment shall not be liable for civil damages resulting from any act or omission in the rendering of such emergency care or in transporting such persons

It doesn't say anything about identifying themselves as a medical provider, nor does it say anything about doctors, nurses, EMTs being held to a different standard. In fact it does the opposite. Any person is any person.


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## Tigger

bigbaldguy said:


> Ummm that's kinda how 911 always works, I thought it was kinda the point.



I suppose you could look at that way. At least when you call 911, the bros showing up are generally wearing a uniform and have equipment and means to get you to the hospital. This in contrast to some stranger showing up in street clothes with nothing.


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## EMT B

I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?


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## Tigger

EMT B said:


> I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?



When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.


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## bigbaldguy

EMT B said:


> I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?



That's a fair point. Many people on here forget that rural/metro systems have some very significant differences in how cals have to be handled response wise.


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## Handsome Robb

Tigger said:


> When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.



Not jeans and a T-shirt? Damn I've been doing it wrong this whole time!


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## EMT B

Tigger said:


> When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.



If I am responding to a call, I will put on my polo or at the very least a tshirt...i dont walk in wearing a GAP sweatshirt and Flannel PJ bottoms..


EDIT: however I will say that most people off duty that respond to things like a code ARE in their jeans, polo, and boots...
on another note, i dont think responding personnel will get turned away because they look "unprofessional". Hi im here to help! pt: i dont want you i want the people on duty...- said no patient ever


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## TransportJockey

EMT B said:


> I live in a small town of maybe 10,000....we are a "paid volunteer department" (whatever the :censored::censored::censored::censored: that means...haven't figured it out cause i don't get paid)...if that was the setting, would peoples answers change?



Nope, not change it at all for me.


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## EMT B

what if you started getting paid if you signed on as responding? I know some departments do that too....


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## TransportJockey

EMT B said:


> what if you started getting paid if you signed on as responding? I know some departments do that too....



Nope. If I'm off, I'm off. Most I will do is call 911. I work two paid agencies and am only volunteering with a FD so they pay for classes, so I won't waste any of my off time.


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## mycrofft

Stray shots:
1. In many places scanners are not legal in your POV unless there are certain circumstances, such as you are the local fire chief. In many places responding to emergencies using a scanner is frowned upon legally.
2. If you are in a service that is volunteer and brought out by pager or sirens or whatever, then fine, you're being a volunteer. If you aren't, you are freelancing.
3. One aspect of Good Sam is that, if emergency service is already available, you cannot step ahead or shoulder in and provide with expectation that you will be covered. Freelancing with a scanner cannot be interpreted otherwise unless its your vollie FD's way of getting members out to a scene.
4. I cannot imagine that a 911 resource pool will be so tied up, other than a disaster. There are usually mutual aid or cross-station staffing to cover it.  
5. As was noted above, what exactly are you going to do anyway? (Actually, the best thing you could do is keep others and yourself from doing bad things, like smearing butter on burns or trying to force open a seizing person's mouth).

That said, what if the scenario were that you didn't have a scanner but someone ran out into the street and called for help in general? Then you are a classic Good Sam as long as you meet the other criteria and yield when 911 shows up. After studying it at length, I think the Good Sam laws are not only a shield against people being afraid to help, they offer a guideline for reasonable action.


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## Tigger

EMT B said:


> If I am responding to a call, I will put on my polo or at the very least a tshirt...i dont walk in wearing a GAP sweatshirt and Flannel PJ bottoms..
> 
> 
> EDIT: however I will say that most people off duty that respond to things like a code ARE in their jeans, polo, and boots...
> on another note, i dont think responding personnel will get turned away because they look "unprofessional". Hi im here to help! pt: i dont want you i want the people on duty...- said no patient ever



Think again, I have and will continue to tell people that I am fine and will be waiting for the ambulance. 

I understand that the general public is more likely to freak out and accept the help of anyone that shows up, but that is absolutely no excuse not to represent yourself in a professional manner *or* freelance. Yes, I'll be wearing my street clothes if someone codes in front of me, but I also wasn't listening to a scanner and self dispatching myself.



mycrofft said:


> Stray shots:
> 1. In many places scanners are not legal in your POV unless there are certain circumstances, such as you are the local fire chief. In many places responding to emergencies using a scanner is frowned upon legally.
> 2. If you are in a service that is volunteer and brought out by pager or sirens or whatever, then fine, you're being a volunteer. If you aren't, you are freelancing.
> 3. One aspect of Good Sam is that, if emergency service is already available, you cannot step ahead or shoulder in and provide with expectation that you will be covered. Freelancing with a scanner cannot be interpreted otherwise unless its your vollie FD's way of getting members out to a scene.
> 4. I cannot imagine that a 911 resource pool will be so tied up, other than a disaster. There are usually mutual aid or cross-station staffing to cover it.
> 5. As was noted above, what exactly are you going to do anyway? (Actually, the best thing you could do is keep others and yourself from doing bad things, like smearing butter on burns or trying to force open a seizing person's mouth).
> 
> That said, what if the scenario were that you didn't have a scanner but someone ran out into the street and called for help in general? Then you are a classic Good Sam as long as you meet the other criteria and yield when 911 shows up. After studying it at length, I think the Good Sam laws are not only a shield against people being afraid to help, they offer a guideline for reasonable action.



How would it be illegal to put a scanner in one's vehicle?


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## mycrofft

They pass a law against it? 
Let me google a bit. Used ot be law in Calif, per my former bro in law with the LAPD.
====================
OK here's one website:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/police-radio-scanner-apps-thats-not-10-4-123172
As he says, fifty states, fifty (and more) laws. Some restrict use of a mobile scanner to use in the commission of a crime (watch out of freelancing is illegal where you are), others forbid it without a FCC license, etc etc.

Law or no law, if someone sued you and it was discovered that you drove around with a scanner and equipment and without sanction from your FD or whatever, then the GOod Sam defense might be challenged.


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## EMT B

maybe my town is just different, but everybody has a radio and a radio number...even when they are off duty. no need for a scanner...


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## TransportJockey

EMT B said:


> maybe my town is just different, but everybody has a radio and a radio number...even when they are off duty. no need for a scanner...



In that case you are getting dispatched, since your station is being dispatched. When I volunteer (rarely do, not worth my time) I respond to all callouts in my district when I'm at the station (district is 45 minutes from home and prohibits POV response to scene anyways). But I do NOT respond to other districts unless I am mutual aided or it sounds like a medic might be needed


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## Tigger

mycrofft said:


> They pass a law against it?
> Let me google a bit. Used ot be law in Calif, per my former bro in law with the LAPD.
> ====================
> OK here's one website:
> http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/police-radio-scanner-apps-thats-not-10-4-123172
> As he says, fifty states, fifty (and more) laws. Some restrict use of a mobile scanner to use in the commission of a crime (watch out of freelancing is illegal where you are), others forbid it without a FCC license, etc etc.
> 
> *Law or no law, if someone sued you and it was discovered that you drove around with a scanner and equipment and without sanction from your FD or whatever, then the GOod Sam defense might be challenged.*




Agreed. 

I was not aware that some states restrict the use of a scanner in a vehicle, it is certainly acceptable here.


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## mycrofft

...and scanners are ok in your house.

Used to be a hot item to burglarize from Radio Shacks.


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## CFal

Tigger said:


> When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.



My volly service is almost never in uniform, I was told we were getting t shirts "in a couple of weeks" a couple of weeks ago, but like everything, will probably get a couple of months.  I still try to look respectable most of the time though.


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## Achilles

I notice we are talking about scanners. I'll just post one quick thing regarding them. Around here the state of Michigan I believe is switching to the 800 MHz radios. The reading I did on it on Motorola's website shows that it's encrypted. And there's a bunch of other cool stuff with them too and bla bla bla.
I'm not a fan of listening to a police scanner and showing up at medical calls. However, I've done it for commercial fires twice (yes I keep a safe distance, uphill/ upwind) one was a pretty fire. Ended up talking to a fireboat captain who was drafting w/ two LDH hoses, as well as a pumper with one.


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## RangerDave

Hi, new to this forum, but I wanted to chime in on one of the earlier comments in this thread.  Somebody mentioned the app for Silicon valley for cpr.  Its called Pulse Point, basically you open it on your phone and can tell it what you are trained to do(the only one that really matters right now though is CPR certification) and then if dispatch wants, they can activate it and it will alert anybody that has this on their cell phone and is near to a CPR needed call.  It then directs you to the site in the hope that CPR can be initiated sooner than it would be if they have to wait for the ambulance.  In theory I think its a good idea, not sure if its used at all or anything though.  Figured I'd chime in about it though.


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## medic17

Tigger said:


> I suppose you could look at that way. At least when you call 911, the bros showing up are generally wearing a uniform and have equipment and means to get you to the hospital. This in contrast to some stranger showing up in street clothes with nothing.



In my country for the past 10-20 years there has been a department in my national EMS that responds without uniform and may or may not have equipment and dos not have means to transport. I remember an incident that went something like this: "5y/o F Conscious unknown trauma." The first responder (a medic that was on call to respond off base) came in with no equipment at all. Although they Almost always have some BLS eqipment. Thank god in this particular situation the girl was fine and did not need treatment or transport (the BLS rig came about a minuet later).


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## med109

TreySpooner65 said:


> Lets say that you are off duty and for the sake of this scenario you have a scanner in your personal vehicle. Your state does not have a duty to act law and you are not in uniform. You hear a call go out for a man down, not breathing. You recognize the address as less than 1 block away inside a fast food restaurant. The dispatcher did not indicate for units to stage.
> 
> The local FD and EMS agencies are busy today and you know that the units dispatched are probably 10 or more minutes away.
> 
> Do you go to the fast food restaurant?



In short, yes I probably would, but for a bunch of different reasons.

First, our department gets paged out, and I always have my pager with me, (if they need a second crew, I will be the one to respond 9 times out of 10). Even if we don't have our pager on, we get all of our calls text messaged to our cell phones. We live in a town of 1200, and have 11 people working EMS. If the page is for a man down not breathing, and I walk in wearing jeans and a tee shirt, and the patient says "no thanks I will wait for the guys in the ambulance" I will gladly leave him alone. Otherwise I am sure said patient or bystanders will be happy I responded

Our department runs and combo of basic crews or ALS crews. So the responding crew might be BLS, and chances are they will be calling me to help anyways, cause 75% of the time I am the only ALS available. If the man is not breathing, the call will require more people than the driver and EMT that are responding. They would be very happy to see another EMT already on scene, even if the person is wearing jeans and a tee-shirt. Our uniform is pretty much jeans and a tee-shirt anyways, it does have our department name on it, but jeans and t-shirt just the same. 

Our responding crew has 5 minutes to get to the ambulance, then however long it takes to get on scene. There is alot I can do in those 5-10 minutes that will speed up patient care. Begin CPR if it hasnt been started, get history, or interview bystanders, make sure the area is clear for the gurney, ect.

One thing to keep in mind, if you do render aid, YOU may have to transport. We recently had a call for a lady in anaphylaxis, the responding crew was BLS, but had called for ALS mutual aid. They got on scene, and one of the bystanders was a Dr, she was screaming that the patient needed EPI (she was freaking out), the crew explained they couldn't give EPI, but would monitor the airway, load the patient ect, and another unit was responding to give epi. She said well I am a Dr. give me the epi and I will give it to her. The crew said that would be fine, but then SHE would have to ride to the hospital with them. She changed her mind lol. A medic from a neighboring agency walked up and gave the patient the epi, and was willing to ride in, but the ALS rig had arrived so he didn't need to. 

So remember if you respond to a call just to be helpful, you still have to give that patient to someone that is at your level of care or higher!


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## DrParasite

Tigger said:


> When I call 911, I expect the Authority Having Jurisdiction to respond represent themselves in a professional manner. Volunteer or not, if you are attending EMS calls you should be in some sort of uniform.


you would think so.... however, the definition of "uniform" can vary from a squad jacket to t-shirts and jeans and a bat belt to a professional shirts and pants combination.  At my local EMS agency if they show up in an ambulance, with a squad jacket, shorts and sandles, it's considered a uniform.  scary.....





Tigger said:


> Think again, I have and will continue to tell people that I am fine and will be waiting for the ambulance.


Fair enough.  I might keep you company, or I might get back in my go and continue on my way.  If you don't want my help, than I'm not going to force you to accept it.

The last off duty response I did was what I thought was an overturned vehicle on the highway, with no PD, fire or EMS o/s.  there was a tow truck that was blocking the roadway.   lots of bystanders offering to help (and already removed her from the car), but she's altered due to unknown reason.  I was heading out to dinner not in my response area in a short sleeve button down shirt, shorts, and flip flops, and thankfully I had my ID and badge from my job (which totally sold me on issuing badges for EMS personnel), so when the cops arrived and told everyone "move along, nothing to see here", I showed him my badge and ID, and asked him if he wanted me to go.   He said "let me know what you need."  And of course, when the AHJ showed up, took report and care of the patient, I went on my way.

You might tell someone you are waiting for the ambulance, but sometimes the best thing you can do is be a calming influence (to the patient AND the crowd), perform a quick assessment, and tell the injured person that help is on the way.


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## medictinysc

I so agree with you on this.


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## mediclife

I agree, if it didn't happen in front of me I wouldn't stop.


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## Steveb

I think I would safely head to the restaurant. Since I'd be protected under the good Samaritan act. So I would have nothing  to worry about as long as I stay in my scope of practise. Also  I  would just go back to the fundamental basics   while I wait for EMS since I wouldn't really have any use full equipment.


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## ms93

Here's a bit of a twist. I went on a police ride along a while back and although we did not respond to anything medical, I wonder now if it would have been a good idea to help if something had come up. Naturally, I would have jumped in but I wonder then what the expectations are in terms of the good samaritan law. I wonder if the officer would have expected me to help or told me wait for responding on duty EMS personnel. I'd like to think that most EMS want to help people even when they're off duty. We just don't introduce ourselves as EMS workers.

Anyone want to chime in?


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## CFal

med109 said:


> In short, yes I probably would, but for a bunch of different reasons.
> 
> First, our department gets paged out, and I always have my pager with me, (if they need a second crew, I will be the one to respond 9 times out of 10). Even if we don't have our pager on, we get all of our calls text messaged to our cell phones. We live in a town of 1200, and have 11 people working EMS. If the page is for a man down not breathing, and I walk in wearing jeans and a tee shirt, and the patient says "no thanks I will wait for the guys in the ambulance" I will gladly leave him alone. Otherwise I am sure said patient or bystanders will be happy I responded
> 
> Our department runs and combo of basic crews or ALS crews. So the responding crew might be BLS, and chances are they will be calling me to help anyways, cause 75% of the time I am the only ALS available. If the man is not breathing, the call will require more people than the driver and EMT that are responding. They would be very happy to see another EMT already on scene, even if the person is wearing jeans and a tee-shirt. Our uniform is pretty much jeans and a tee-shirt anyways, it does have our department name on it, but jeans and t-shirt just the same.
> 
> Our responding crew has 5 minutes to get to the ambulance, then however long it takes to get on scene. There is alot I can do in those 5-10 minutes that will speed up patient care. Begin CPR if it hasnt been started, get history, or interview bystanders, make sure the area is clear for the gurney, ect.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, if you do render aid, YOU may have to transport. We recently had a call for a lady in anaphylaxis, the responding crew was BLS, but had called for ALS mutual aid. They got on scene, and one of the bystanders was a Dr, she was screaming that the patient needed EPI (she was freaking out), the crew explained they couldn't give EPI, but would monitor the airway, load the patient ect, and another unit was responding to give epi. She said well I am a Dr. give me the epi and I will give it to her. The crew said that would be fine, but then SHE would have to ride to the hospital with them. She changed her mind lol. A medic from a neighboring agency walked up and gave the patient the epi, and was willing to ride in, but the ALS rig had arrived so he didn't need to.
> 
> So remember if you respond to a call just to be helpful, you still have to give that patient to someone that is at your level of care or higher!



I hate protocols that say basics can't give epi, it's not rocket surgery, I've had protocols in 3 different states, one says I can give it, one says I can call med control for it and the other I can't give it.


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## EMDispatch

We get into a weird variation of this where I work. The comm center has an official unit we take out on training, etc. The vehicle is equipped with an AED, BLS bag, and a water rescue throw line. It's a personal decision to respond, as we have no policy per se. The obvious differences being we have equipment and are usually considered "on duty" in the vehicle.


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## Mariemt

In my town, yes. I respond off duty quite often to unresponsive etc if I'm close, but it is my squad I'm working with. My pager picks up other towns traffic and I guess if they were in front of my I would do something, but I wouldn't go searching for their patient. I would guess they have their own responders


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## EMT856

Yes, I would go to the restaurant. I dont care what anyone says,as an EMT, it is my job to help those who need it. If the man died, I would feel responsible in a way if I didnt even try to help him.


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## Fire51

I have lived in a small town and work on a volunteer FD and there are plenty of times people have showed up on calls that have been down the street because they know the person that have called for help. In a big city it can be different everyone doesn't know everyone so you don't really know what's going on, it's more likely in a big city to walk in to a dangerous situation then in a small town ( not saying it won't happen). So I think there are exceptions to the question.


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