# Failed my EMT-B course by 1% point.



## LVemtb (Apr 1, 2010)

So, I was going to NCTI. Stupid idea, I should have went to the community college as their program seemed much better. However, at the time I didn't know about it until after I had paid my tuition. So - I stuck around, because I wouldn't have gotten my deposit back. Boy, was that a huge mistake.

Wow, I had an 80% overall grade - and a 74% on the final exam. Which I studied for immensely. Going over NREMT books, my text, and flash cards. Review from chapters, study groups. Out of the 150 questions on our test there were 3 or so airway questions, and even less of the stuff I actually studied for. What I got was - questions about domestic terrorism, 8 or so questions on activated charcoal. OTC med's difference between trade names and generic, and a bunch of other crap that we never even so much even went over in class! Hardly any trauma, or medical questions, hardly any ABC's. Largely the basic skills were not even touched on. I can't even remember what else was on the test. 

I'm not a stupid person, but the test I was given was completely different than what I had been studying for! Almost no scenario questions! Now, here I am back to square one, feeling extra stupid (even though I was 4th in class out of 11 that we had.) My overall grade was perfect, and my test score was off by 1%! The requirement to pass the final without a second try is really ridiculous! I feel like I could ace the registry right now! I'm so very angry. I have no medical background, I'm not great at tests. I never much enjoyed school, but really enjoyed learning in this class. it just seems like someone pulled up test questions and hit "RANDOM!" and printed the test. 

From what I saw when grades were given out - 4 or 5 people passed! So the guy with a 75 overall who may have done crappy on tests and missed a few assignments gets 1 percent higher than me on his exam and passes? I turn in everything consistently get 78 % - 80% on my tests and FAIL THE ENTIRE FREAKING CLASS off ONE PERCENT!?

WHY?


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## LVemtb (Apr 1, 2010)

The worst part is that my 79% at the college would be a straight up pass - so would the 74%. It's just so odd that the Comm. College grade standards are not as high as NCTI - which is ridiculous. I still feel I'd have a better grade if I went to the Comm College - who not only do A basic class but require a lab and once a week clinicals. Where as the only thing at NCTI I did was one ride along and a chapter on biology!


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## Veneficus (Apr 1, 2010)

Even In colleges the grading scale is not standard throughout. At the college program I graduated from, 80% was the minimum passing score for paramedic.


Unfortunately this is how places like this make their money. They teach nothing, usually have some draconian teacher who thinks he is the defender of the true faith, and keeps a good pass rate on state and national tests by dropping a majority of students. 

All legal of course. 

I am sorry to hear about your loss but hope you will use this as an opportunity to go back to a college and do things right. 

I  further hope you will take an active role in disuading future students from choosing the same path you did.


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## EMTtoBE (Apr 1, 2010)

Hey LVemtb do you live in Vegas? If so I just signed up for NCTI and will be starting on the 5th...Now I'm nervous hahaha...Is the school really that bad?


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## TransportJockey (Apr 1, 2010)

At the CC I went to in ABQ, you had to score an 80% to be considered passed.


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## joeshmoe (Apr 1, 2010)

Your situation isnt unique. A surprising number of people seem to fail their EMT basic class, and they arent all idiots. My schools final exam shot down a lot of people who up until then would have told you EMT basic school was a breeze. 

They probably spent too much time on emtlife reading people posting about how easy basic class is. Fortunately for me I didnt pay attention to them and studied my *** off up until the end. I put in the time memorizing all kinds of elaborate hazmat procedures and protocols, along with everything else in my 1300 page textbook I thought id never see on a test, including the terrorism crap. 

If you still think you want to be an EMT then just try again at the community college. Yeah it sucks being out the tuition you spent, but life goes on.


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## EMSLaw (Apr 1, 2010)

Passing for us was a 70%, but the tests were considered to be quite difficult.  I had missed a class and had to take the last two tests on the same day.  Got 100% on Special Populations and 72% on Ambulance Ops.  But ultimately, it doesn't matter, because both were a pass.  

Anyway, don't sweat it.  You'll be the star of your class next time.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 1, 2010)

Most programs I've seen have had an 80% minimum passing grade... that's at colleges and tech schools.  Just try harder next time... you aren't the first person to fail and go through again, and now you already know 74% of what you need to.


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## LVemtb (Apr 1, 2010)

EMTtoBE said:


> Hey LVemtb do you live in Vegas? If so I just signed up for NCTI and will be starting on the 5th...Now I'm nervous hahaha...Is the school really that bad?



You can pass this class. Then transfer your credits to CSN which is what I had planned on. However, the tests are alays different than what we were told to study. At least for me. Granted, my studying largely consisted of following the lectures, highlighting points in the book and using the internet to find answers. Which was a big no no. While I knew all of the most important skills and could do baseline vitals in my sleep other kids in my class could barely put on a BP cuff and tell me a Blood Pressure. They were getting over 90% on tests. Presumably because they were reading the book from front to back, where as I was SO focused on patient care, and drug dosage and assessments that I completely lacked in VOCAB and non-related patient care, last I checked knowing whether something is domestic terrorism or international is apparently important. I was to focused on practical stuff.

Maybe I'm being a big baby, but I always felt like what I studied was never on the test. Which is ultimately my fault. I know better next time. As for a 80% pass fail program that some are talking about. I could totally feel capable of that. If the curriculum was a little more thorough. When we spent time on something in class it felt like it was a lot of tacking things together. My teacher was fairly knowledgeable, but when I asked questions near the end for final they were more likely to make fun of me, or crack a joke than to shut up and answer the questions I had.


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## Whittier (Apr 1, 2010)

^^^ If there is one thing I've learned... heh... it's read the book, pick the stupid answers on tests, and you will get a good grade.


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## EMTtoBE (Apr 1, 2010)

Well we will see starting Monday...but i have heard a few bad things since i have been looking on here but its to late to back out now lol...and i didnt know your credits can transfe.


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## LVemtb (Apr 1, 2010)

It sounds like you're taking the 1 month accelerated class!? Good luck on that I took the 3 month part time class. While I still feel like I learned a ton, the class could be a lot more thorough and more clinical time. Literally, the one 12 hour ride-a-long did almost nothing for me.


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## EMTtoBE (Apr 1, 2010)

yea the class ends May 25th but i was not informed it was the accelerated class lmao o well..but really one ride along? thats lame...my friend went to CSN and they made him do a 12/hr shift with fire and a 12/hr shift at the hospital but even then he said the class wasnt that great..but i think some people expect way to much when becoming an EMT-b...that sucks that you didnt pass did you at least get some money back?


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## MMiz (Apr 1, 2010)

What did your instructor say when you discussed the situation?  That's really going to be your best route.  Ask if you have any opportunity for remediation or to re-test.  Be sincere and see what happens.


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## LVemtb (Apr 1, 2010)

The Admin. Assistant said an appeal will likely go nowhere. I asked my instructor what I could do, if I could retake the test and I got a flat, no.


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## MMiz (Apr 1, 2010)

Don't take no for an answer.  That doesn't mean you annoy and moan until they let you do that.  Suggest different options and see what they say.  At this point you have nothing to lose.


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## JPINFV (Apr 1, 2010)

LVemtb said:


> The worst part is that my 79% at the college would be a straight up pass - so would the 74%.



You're assuming that the exams would be the same. I could make an EMT test where everyone with 2 brain cells could pass or one where everyone would fail. 

Of course there's a few saying in medical school:

P=MD


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## Lifeguards For Life (Apr 1, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> You're assuming that the exams would be the same. I could make an EMT test where everyone with 2 brain cells could pass or one where everyone would fail.
> 
> Of course there's a few saying in medical school:
> 
> P=MD



on a H/HP/P/F system?


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## joeshmoe (Apr 1, 2010)

If you really did fail the final by 1% point and otherwise had a perfect academic record, it seems to me youd have a pretty good case to be retested. Did you take the NREMT practical exam?

Also, one 12 hour ambulance clinical is a joke. My school required at least 40 hours, plus ER and ICU clinical time and had clinical objectives that needed to be met. We had some students do like 100 hours trying to get objectives done.


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## mcgrubbs (Apr 1, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> At the CC I went to in ABQ, you had to score an 80% to be considered passed.



Same thing down here at Las Cruces.  We lost two guys Monday due to droppng below an 80 on exams.  One was good and I hate to lose him.  The other..good guy, I'm just not sure he really wanted to be here. (in this class)


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## JPINFV (Apr 1, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> on a H/HP/P/F system?



Yep, P=MD on any sort of P/NP system (there's almost as much variety in P/NP systems as there are EMT levels. My favorite is the Honors/High pass/ Pass/Low Pass/Fail. After all, A/B/C/D/F is too complicated). Alternatively, my school currently reports the percent grade, so the saying is 70=DO.

Of course, as I said earlier, a good course director can design a test to get any average they want. Also, at least in medical school, there is a formal process to remediate classes that a student failed as well as a formal monitoring committee (Student Performance Committee). I'd say, on average, somewhere around 5% of the class fails each course at my school (about 5-10 students). However it is extremely extremely easy to booch an exam.


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## LVemtb (Apr 1, 2010)

joeshmoe said:


> If you really did fail the final by 1% point and otherwise had a perfect academic record, it seems to me youd have a pretty good case to be retested. Did you take the NREMT practical exam?



No, in my state to take the exam you must pass the B class. I'd like to be retested, but have been flatly denied. I'll be sending a letter to the director. Although, from the way my teacher made it sound was that she doesn't want to let me retake. But our course clearly states that to pass your final must be 75% and final grade a 75% as well. So I can have a 73% in class and score an 80% on the exam and pass the class, because it's accumulative and brings up your grade- but it doesn't work the other way around. I missed exactly 2 questions more than allowed. (which I honestly changed 2 questions that were infact correct the first time! doh!) but they don't seem to care. But I'm writing an appeal. Not sure what to say though.



joeshmoe said:


> Also, one 12 hour ambulance clinical is a joke. My school required at least 40 hours, plus ER and ICU clinical time and had clinical objectives that needed to be met. We had some students do like 100 hours trying to get objectives done.



Uh, yeah. It is a huge joke. One of the guys in my class told me I had a BP of 120/110. I'd have pericardial tamponade, and probably be dead. Yet he passed the class.

On my ride along the comments were that, "I would definitely pass the class" and that I could, "give comparable baseline vitals, and could follow procedure. " and that I was, "already thinking like a paramedic."

I also requested another ride-along but was not allowed. 

I've taken college courses before and never have I taken a test and not known what was on the test! It was very clear what we should go over and review. I did the chapter reviews at the end of each chapter, and still saw things on the test I had never seen before (or remember). Again, whats frustrating is that I passed the class with an accumulative score (final included) but failed the very last test at 74%. Every other test I was scoring 76-82%. Why is it that on the last test I would do less than my average? If a final is review why then would I fail it if I should know everything on it?

There were about 20 people in the class to start and we ended with 6 or so?

Interesting to note, all previous tests before the final (except mid-term) were made by the teacher, the final was written by NCTI.


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## mcdonl (Apr 13, 2010)

Whittier said:


> ^^^ If there is one thing I've learned... heh... it's read the book, pick the stupid answers on tests, and you will get a good grade.



The one thing I learned here... UNDERSTAND WHY THE ANSWER IS CORRECT...

And why we do practicals in certain orders.

Then, when a question is posed in a way you have never seen it you are not thrown for a loop. You just apply your understanding of pre-hospital care to the question and pick the best answer based on the DOT curriculum 

I HOPE!! :sad:


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## bstone (Apr 15, 2010)

I hate "schools" that will fail you entirely based upon your final exam score, while completely ignoring everything up until that point. No real accredited school does that. The point here is to avoid NCTI. I am really sorry you have to experience a place like NCTI. Go to the community college and I am sure you will ace it. good luck!!


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