# BEWARE ER Ambulance of El Cajon, CA



## RollingGuy (Mar 2, 2011)

I am posting this as a warning to hopeful EMTs looking for jobs in San Diego, California. ER Ambulance (in El Cajon of San Diego) has a clever way of getting free labor from prospective employees. They prey on qualified EMTs that are in need of work by making them do two unpaid "ride-alongs" on their ambulances as a supposed way of training/evaluating new people. The ride-alongs are usually entire shifts that last at least 10 hours each, which means that a prospective employee will be doing at least 20 hours of unpaid labor before they are considered for hiring. Although some EMTs are eventually hired this way, most are simply used by the company and rejected from further consideration (I was lied to by my supervising EMT, Krystal, who claims that the company has "over 50 EMTs" when they actually only have ~10 _total_ employees). Victims are lured to do this by ads that promise $150+ of sign-on bonuses on sites such as Craigslist. Although new workers are told that they would be doing "ride-alongs," they are actually required to do everything that a paid employee is required to do, which places them at risk because they are not insured and are reliable for themselves (no formal contract has been signed with the company). The company is exploiting a current dearth of legal protections for workers that are "under consideration" for hiring; in contrast to interns, victims do not sign any liability forms, are not informed beforehand that they would be doing actual labor, and are not offered any record of their participation in the "ride-along" evaluation. I became aware of this during my own ride-along sessions when I overheard employees discussing this exploitation (Krystal herself), how the company will eventually be shut down, and how they want to "get out" of this company and work for someone else. Other EMT companies consider ER to be a joke, especially when they see EMTs in the distinctive "white shirt" that ER ride-along prospectives wear. If you want more information about this, PM me and I will tell you all about the ride-alongs (where I was required to do _everything_ in the back while the actual EMT just drove; I was the only other person in the ambulance).


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## JPINFV (Mar 2, 2011)

If everything you said is true, I do believe that the absolute best step would be to lodge a complaint against the company over at the friendly people at your local EMSA. 

http://www.co.san-diego.ca.us/hhsa/programs/phs/emergency_medical_services/index.html


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## Anjel (Mar 2, 2011)

It's called a third ride. I have found this to be pretty standard at places I have been applying to. 

I had an interview today and was told I would be doing 16 third rides before it would be decided if I could be a second. Granted those are paid shifts. 12 hours each. 

So...did they not tell you what you would be doing? It was only two shifts. I don't see it being that big of a deal. Always be careful of the companys that post their job openings on Craigslist. If they have to seek out employees instead of people finding them. It usually isn't that great of a company.


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 2, 2011)

While employers may in fact ask you to do "trial" shifts, I very much believe what the OP is claiming.  I have heard many stories from previous employees, and that company is a joke. You've been forewarned and as JP stated why not report them to the county I'm sure they'd be interested in the matter.


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## RollingGuy (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks for the link JPINFV; I've already reported to the FTC and BBB and the EMSA will be next.


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## Monkey (Mar 2, 2011)

Do some research on the company... you'll be VERY surprised on what you find.  They're in CA for a reason, they didn't start here...

And you're right, they are sketchy in regards to that "try and buy" hiring stuff. 

you'll notice faded phone numbers on the side of their rigs with east coast area codes... there's a reason for it.


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## Sandog (Mar 2, 2011)

I really can't believe you would be so bold as to post someones name on this forum, you open yourself and this forum to liable... tsk


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## Monkey (Mar 2, 2011)

Sandog said:


> I really can't believe you would be so bold as to post someones name on this forum, you open yourself and this forum to liable... tsk



LOL, The same thing crossed my mind...  h34r:


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## RollingGuy (Mar 2, 2011)

Why not? It's not slander; it's simply telling the truth. I was lied to _in an environment where professionalism and ethical conduct are paramount_, and they should have kept that in mind before doing that. Somebody has to step up and at least _attempt_ to stop the scam, and if I have to name names to start, then I will do it. I hope the people who are reading this will keep the names in mind if they're stubborn enough to do ride-alongs regardless of what they've read.


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## Sandog (Mar 2, 2011)

RollingGuy said:


> Why not? It's not slander; it's simply telling the truth. I was lied to _in an environment where professionalism and ethical conduct are paramount_, and they should have kept that in mind before doing that. Somebody has to step up and at least _attempt_ to stop the scam, and if I have to name names to start, then I will do it. I hope the people who are reading this will keep the names in mind if they're stubborn enough to do ride-alongs regardless of what they've read.



First of all, the EMS community is relatively small and what you do in one agency may follow you to the next. The old adage of don't burn bridges apply here. Secondly if you cannot back up your claims made above with proof, then yes you can be libel. I suspect the moderators will delete some or all of your post...


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 2, 2011)

Sandog said:


> First of all, the EMS community is relatively small and what you do in one agency may follow you to the next. The old adage of don't burn bridges apply here. Secondly if you cannot back up your claims made above with proof, then yes you can be libel. I suspect the moderators will delete some or all of your post...


This can be true....be very careful......a google search of ER ambulance brings this post up first and foremost, so again, moderation is warranted here...


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## RollingGuy (Mar 2, 2011)

Sandog said:


> First of all, the EMS community is relatively small and what you do in one agency may follow you to the next. The old adage of don't burn bridges apply here. Secondly if you cannot back up your claims made above with proof, then yes you can be libel. I suspect the moderators will delete some or all of your post...



Thanks for your input Sandog. I guess it would be unfair to name the person directly, since it seems that I'm placing all of the blame on that person (which I don't intend to do), but I've been trying to edit the post without success since the deadline for that is past. Fortunately, section 230 of the Communications Decency Act protects ISPs and internet forums from liability for third party claims, and First Amendment rights make any suit for defamation incredibly difficult to prove in the US. But we're getting a bit besides the point . 

It can be considered that what you do eventually comes back to you. In this case, if they've been doing this for a long time, then it's about time that this caught up to them.


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## Monkey (Mar 2, 2011)

It's understandable to feel frustrated and used, based on what you said.

Sandog is soooo right though, the boot you step on today may be kicking your butt tomorrow. EMS is small here, and trust me, you're not the first one I've heard say the same things about the same company.

Karma is a b@#*h.. it will come back and haunt you, whether an individual or a company.  I for one would be feeling more pity for their EMT's than anger at the management.


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## andre178 (Mar 2, 2011)

looks like they're back at it, if these are the same people, see attachment
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/hea/2239962695.html


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## RollingGuy (Mar 2, 2011)

andre178 said:


> looks like they're back at it, if these are the same people, see attachment



Indeed that's the one.


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## WTEngel (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow, that sounds sketchy at best. It is unfortunate that there is a surplus of EMTs and they end up getting taken advantage of because there are those willing to take low wages (or in this case, no wages) in order to secure some sort of work.

I won't blast all companies that advertise on Craigslist, but as another poster mentioned, the companies with good reputations, competitive salaries, and satisfied employees usually do not have to advertise openings at all, and have a stack of resumes and applications to select from. As always, be warned, and don't screw everyone else by taking little or no compensation for work you are trained to do. It just makes it easier for the other employers to lower their wages...

I would be irresponsible if I didn't take this opportunity to mention (like I do so often), that as always, lack of professionalization and higher education is largely to blame.


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## Tommerag (Mar 2, 2011)

RollingGuy said:


> Fortunately, section 230 of the Communications Decency Act protects ISPs and internet forums from liability for third party claims, and First Amendment rights make any suit for defamation incredibly difficult to prove in the US. But we're getting a bit besides the point .



I'm no law expert, but the way I read that is that this forum can not be held liable, for what is posted. BUT you don't own this forum, so I don't believe that you are protected under that since you are the one that posted it. 

Like others said be more careful about using names in future posts.


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

So, you did a ride along for employment and did all the work and was not offered a second ride along or the job? Is it possible that maybe you did not preform up to par or as expected??? I don't know because I wasn't in you rig or on your crew. Do you have proof that there are only "10 actual employees" That is kind of weird right. Lastly, I think listening to some un-happy EMT's isn't really a way to judge the company. What is BLS anyway man? It's getting experience , Quality pt care safe TX and..oh yeah, making a ton of money...:lol: Your company has no bearing on that stuff man. That's you and your partner. Whatever though...


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## adamjh3 (Mar 2, 2011)

One of the guys I work with used to work there, has nothing good to say about them. He told me that he sued the owner for not paying him correctly or some such shenanigannery. I'll see if I can get a little info out of him tomorrow.


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## EMS49393 (Mar 2, 2011)

The moral of the story is:

Do NOT apply to any jobs listed on Craigslist.  

They might as well call that scamlist.  It's free and it's full of fraud.  Start looking at online ad agencies geared toward EMS jobs.  Check your Sunday paper.  There are plenty of reliable sources where you can look for a job.  Why on earth would you look on Craigslist?


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## RollingGuy (Mar 2, 2011)

I just called back by the SD EMSA. They are NOT happy with how I was assigned to be Patient Person in the back while the only paid employee was the driver, which means that I was not protected by the company and my untrained status could endanger patients. From my phone conversation, it turns out that they have received other complaints like this in the past and mine was one more that will _prompt them to investigate_.

Please note that I'm not coming here for sympathy; I'm coming here to warn other EMTs that could potentially be exploited. This is a win/win scam for ERA, and I'm not amused by how the management disdains hardworking EMTs like yourself by getting away with this.


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

So, what was the reason you weren't offered the position. I mean, since your name droping and all. Was your ride along on Tuesday ? I remember hearing about some kid who D***Ed up a bunch of county forms. So if you deemed it to unsafe or dangerous to be alone in the back w/ the Pt, why did you do it. If you were quoting EMS traits earlier, why didn't you voice your concern for being the PT person. If you didn't like it or were unsure in your abilities why SD you sign your I # ??


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## Shishkabob (Mar 2, 2011)

A $150 sign on bonus?  Really?  That attracts people?


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## usalsfyre (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> So, what was the reason you weren't offered the position. I mean, since your name droping and all. Was your ride along on Tuesday ? I remember hearing about some kid who D***Ed up a bunch of county forms. So if you deemed it to unsafe or dangerous to be alone in the back w/ the Pt, why did you do it. If you were quoting EMS traits earlier, why didn't you voice your concern for being the PT person. If you didn't like it or were unsure in your abilities why SD you sign your I # ??



As if more evidence of a lack of education was needed....

Third rides for employment are sketchy at best, using a potential employee as minimum staffing on a crew is unethical, possibly illegal and asking for trouble. If this was ever asked of me the dust cloud left by my departure would be impressive to say the least...


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## Monkey (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> So, what was the reason you weren't offered the position. I mean, since your name droping and all. Was your ride along on Tuesday ? I remember hearing about some kid who D***Ed up a bunch of county forms. So if you deemed it to unsafe or dangerous to be alone in the back w/ the Pt, why did you do it. If you were quoting EMS traits earlier, why didn't you voice your concern for being the PT person. If you didn't like it or were unsure in your abilities why SD you sign your I # ??



Would you really expect a ride along to know how to properly do county forms?  I know EMT's that have been on the job a month or so that still struggle.


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

Exactly... right, why would you go if you were that unsure of the scenario? I'm not saying its right. I'm not a fan of the S**T talking after the fact. That's all, All he should have done was open his mouth, if his gut feeling was don't do it, then walk. Some people like the the opportunity, know there skills & protocols and handle it. Everyone is different.


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## usalsfyre (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> Exactly... right, why would you go if you were that unsure of the scenario? I'm not saying its right. I'm not a fan of the S**T talking after the fact. That's all, All he should have done was open his mouth, if his gut feeling was don't do it, then walk. Some people like the the opportunity, know there skills & protocols and handle it. Everyone is different.



Some people are also massively overconfident in what a short course teaches them. Anyone who thinks this is an "opportunity" to do anything other than massively muck things up for the company and themselves is delusional.

This is not the practice of a reputable organization.


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

What's it like way up there on that PARAMEDIC THRONE ??? Is it lonely......


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## JPINFV (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> What's it like way up there on that PARAMEDIC THRONE ??? Is it lonely......


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

Ha ha ... NICE !!


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## WTEngel (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQ, do you work for the company in question? Just wondering... You seem to be very defensive.


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## usalsfyre (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> What's it like way up there on that PARAMEDIC THRONE ??? Is it lonely......



Since my certification level has anything to do with this...

Even the BLS volley department I started with that was chronically understaffed and scratched calls on occasion understood there needed to be a training period. Understand that if someone who is inadequately trained screws the pooch and causes the company to have a judgement placed against them you may be out of a job. 

If it worked for you great. Your in the minority though.


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

Yeah, I do. To be honest, I think it is what it is, the only point I was trying to make is, be a big boy before you sign the papers and go on the ride. It's not a big deal to walk. If you don't feel right about it, cool..


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## JPINFV (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> Yeah, I do. To be honest, I think it is what it is, the only point I was trying to make is, be a big boy before you sign the papers and go on the ride. It's not a big deal to walk. If you don't feel right about it, cool..




So, could you clarify something. To the best of your knowledge, is the applicant doing an audition ride always teamed up with two other people, or does it ever happen where it's just one employee and an applicant doing an audition ride along?


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

usalsfyre, 

 I understand the repercussions of poor PT care, to you, your partner and company.


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## the_negro_puppy (Mar 2, 2011)

RESQGUY said:


> Yeah, I do. To be honest, I think it is what it is, the only point I was trying to make is, be a big boy before you sign the papers and go on the ride. It's not a big deal to walk. If you don't feel right about it, cool..



You have not offered any counter argument to what the OP has said, other than try to assassinate his character. You are on the defensive because your employer has possibly been exposed performing unethical work practices.


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## RESQGUY (Mar 2, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> You have not offered any counter argument to what the OP has said, other than try to assassinate his character. You are on the defensive because your employer has possibly been exposed performing unethical work practices.





Assassinate his character? The poster hasn't responded to any questions I've asked. If he could paint a better picture of why he wasn't offered a job that could help clear some things up. I'm on the " Defensive" because I'm pretty positive the post would have never came to be if he was hired..


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 3, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> You have not offered any counter argument to what the OP has said, other than try to assassinate his character. You are on the defensive because your employer has possibly been exposed performing unethical work practices.


This entire thread is about character assassination, and as such it is closed.


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