# Gotta love Detroit



## Anjel (Apr 10, 2011)

> The victims called 911 for help, but no EMS rigs were available, according to Local 4 sources.



http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/27493777/detail.html

Six people were shot. All of which went to a police station to seek help. And 911 told them no one was coming, because there were no ambulances. 

Why is there no mutual aid? Or back up plan? Geez.

I am staying away from Detroit.


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## Aidey (Apr 10, 2011)

Ok, I will state the obvious. If they were able to drive to a police station, why didn't they just drive to the hospital? I know that isn't the point, and that Detroit has a history of being significantly understaffed. But if you call 911 and they tell you "I'm sorry, there are no ambulances" what is driving to a police station going to do for you?

Edit: It doesn't specify in the article, but if the police station was significantly closer or something then it makes a little bit of sense, but still.


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## Anjel (Apr 10, 2011)

Aidey said:


> Ok, I will state the obvious. If they were able to drive to a police station, why didn't they just drive to the hospital? I know that isn't the point, and that Detroit has a history of being significantly understaffed. But if you call 911 and they tell you "I'm sorry, there are no ambulances" what is driving to a police station going to do for you?
> 
> Edit: It doesn't specify in the article, but if the police station was significantly closer or something then it makes a little bit of sense, but still.



Im pretty sure the police station was closer. The hospital is kinda in the middle of detroit and can be hard to get to. 

And the police are the one who called 911 and dispatch told police that no one was coming.


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## 46Young (Apr 10, 2011)

Anjel1030 said:


> Why is there no mutual aid? Or back up plan? Geez.
> 
> I am staying away from Detroit.



Probably because it would be a one sided relationship. If Detroit's EMS deployment is really that inadequate, then how will they ever be able to return the favor? There would be no "mutual" in the agreement. 

For example, my county is part of a mutual aid agreement in Northern VA, DC, and MD. This allows each county to maintain coverage during times of high call volume. the problem is, Prince George's County, MD, requests and receives mutual aid all the time, and never returns the favor, and no one expects them to due to their shortcomings in staffing and deployment. They use a single pull system, and hypothetically would be able to send only a two person engine, or two EMT-B's on a bus only. If the taxpayers of these other counties find out that they're subsidizing PG's fire and EMS, they'll be displeased to say the least.

When Detroit has spikes in call volume, it would be wise to indefinitely hold the BS calls like flu like sx, minor injuries, the intox at home (call a cab to get to the ED if you can't hold your liquor), etc. In my county, when we'll hold minor EMS calls, as well as minor fire calls, like wires down and such, and we'll scale back certain EMS responses such as highway MVA's (we typically send an engine and medic each direction due to bad locations), and also scale back box alarm assignments unless it's a confirmed working fire.


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## DrParasite (Apr 11, 2011)

46Young said:


> When Detroit has spikes in call volume, it would be wise to indefinitely hold the BS calls like flu like sx, minor injuries, the intox at home (call a cab to get to the ED if you can't hold your liquor), etc. In my county, when we'll hold minor EMS calls, as well as minor fire calls, like wires down and such, and we'll scale back certain EMS responses such as highway MVA's (we typically send an engine and medic each direction due to bad locations), and also scale back box alarm assignments unless it's a confirmed working fire.


The problem isn't the spikes; it's their routine call volume that is too much for there system to handle.  they don't have the units to handle the routine volume, so your people end up waiting, especially when the life threatening calls occur.

The answer to this problem isn't using mutual aid; the answer is for the city to actually fund the EMS system properly, put more ambulances on the street, and give the EMS system enough resources to do the job properly.

quoting myself from an earlier thread, because I'm too lazy to retype the exact same statement:


DrParasite said:


> this HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.  It's not different than philly FD's circle of death (when the engine company stands around a dying patient because no ambulance is available).  Or how in Philly, PD freqently transports GSW victims to the hospitals, because EMS has an extended response time.  Detroit is not unique in this problem.
> ...
> The AHJ decides what level of EMS service they want.  most understaff and underfund their EMS system, and it seems Detroit is no different.  The fault in this lies in the management and politicians who under staff the system, and the public who permit this to happen.
> 
> again, no one complains until it takes the ambulance too long to show up for THEIR emergency.


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## johnrsemt (Apr 11, 2011)

another problem is getting surrounding areas to want to respond;  especially private services:  when 90%+ of their transports are no insurance; who can afford to pick up the slack.
  The area I used to work, we backed up 911; and over 50% of the 911 calls we did we never got paid for;  it is hard to do that and stay in business.


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## HotelCo (Apr 11, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> The answer to this problem isn't using mutual aid; the answer is for the city to actually fund the EMS system properly, put more ambulances on the street, and give the EMS system enough resources to do the job properly.



+100



johnrsemt said:


> another problem is getting surrounding areas to want to respond;  especially private services:  when 90%+ of their transports are no insurance; who can afford to pick up the slack.



Privates do back up Detroit. However, it's up to Detroit to make the call to the privates. The night, and time that happened I was relaxing at my station, 8 minutes away from the scene of that shooting. Had Detroit called my company, we would have responded.


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## EMDispatch (Apr 11, 2011)

I just find it frustrating that eventually these issues in Detroit devolve into blaming 911 abuse, and not the broken system. Granted it's assumably a big issue, it's definitely not the easiest part of the system to change... I mean sure we can de-brainwash people from calling 911 when we think there's an emergency...or we could not blame the taxpayers for being stupid, and instead admit that our system needs help.

Seriously though, 17 ambulances for the whole city.


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## usafmedic45 (Apr 11, 2011)

> Im pretty sure the police station was closer. The hospital is kinda in the middle of detroit and can be hard to get to.



There is more than one hospital in Detroit.  Not to mention that at 2am getting to Receiving is easier than getting just about anywhere in town because the area down there is pretty much empty.  I say this because I used to work as a research technician across the street from Receiving and would have to leave work at 2 or 3 am on occasion.  Getting home to Waterford took 30 minutes in those cases where as getting in or out during the day frequently took up to an hour.


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## Anjel (Apr 11, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> There is more than one hospital in Detroit.  Not to mention that at 2am getting to Receiving is easier than getting just about anywhere in town because the area down there is pretty much empty.  I say this because I used to work as a research technician across the street from Receiving and would have to leave work at 2 or 3 am on occasion.  Getting home to Waterford took 30 minutes in those cases where as getting in or out during the day frequently took up to an hour.



I grew up in Waterford and drove to wayne state so yea I know the drive. And yes that might all be true and common sense. But that seems to be lacking in the people of detroit these days. I would of driven to the hospital. THEY drove to the police. 

Who knows the reasoning.


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## HotelCo (Apr 11, 2011)

Update:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/27493777/detail.html



> But Detroit Deputy Mayor Saul Green said an ambulance was sent within three minutes of a 911 call made at 2:10 a.m. regarding the shooting. He said the issue lies in the fact that there was a lack of credible information given to the EMS dispatcher, and that the men left the scene of the shooting before the ambulance arrived.


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## Hockey (Apr 11, 2011)

Don't forget a few weeks/months back the city didn't pay their bill for their CAD and basically had no computer dispatch.


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## HotelCo (Apr 20, 2011)

Update:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/new...tale-of-the-tape-20110419-wpms?obref=obinsite


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## Anjel (Apr 20, 2011)

omg that reporter was retarded. But if my dispatch was like that in detroit I dont think I could do it. 

"Walkie talkies" Just dont cut it anymore


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## Patria O Muerte (Apr 28, 2011)

I actually just did a research paper for a college class on Detroit. They really are getting rocked up there. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on which way you're looking at things) the federal and state systems cannot interact in a way that is particularly beneficial to the city these days or at all conducive to its rehabilitation. When an entire city is based on a specific commodity and that commodity falls through, its a recipe for disaster. I know that every state is experiencing a squeeze, but I'm not sure if I'd really expect any better than this in a place like Detroit, knowing what I know. Its a shame.


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