# Become EMT-B in 14 days



## coloradoemt (Jan 3, 2005)

I thought this was amusing if not rediculous. I am sure there are those smart enough to absorb everything in this period of time, but I am not one of them. I needed the 5 month version. It is my opinion that they would be cranking out NREMT's that really didn't know much...

http://www.unitekcollege.com/emt/fasttrack2.php


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## Summit (Jan 3, 2005)

$3500 for the pleasure! Wow!

14 days? I'm all about immersive learning but jeez!

I did mine in a 30 day class + 40hrs of clinicals and that's about as fast as I think anyone ought to.


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## rescuecpt (Jan 3, 2005)

The County does a 14-day class around here once in a while, usually in the summer - but it's 14 days of class and then there's about a month or two before the state exam during which some EMT's I talked to said they were required to do more ride-alongs, ER time, autopsy time, etc than we did in my class - I guess to help make up for some of the things you would normally see doing your ride alongs with a normal length class.


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## daemonicusxx (Jan 7, 2005)

i dont know about a 14 day class, im just not sure how much you can really learn in that short a time. i think i agree with coloradoemt when he says that they would just be cranking out less than sufficent EMT's. sad to say that i work for a 3rd party company in dallas that employs a few of those. maybe they took the short course.


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## Jon (Jan 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuecpt_@Jan 3 2005, 01:55 PM
> * The County does a 14-day class around here once in a while, usually in the summer - but it's 14 days of class and then there's about a month or two before the state exam during which some EMT's I talked to said they were required to do more ride-alongs, ER time, autopsy time, etc than we did in my class - I guess to help make up for some of the things you would normally see doing your ride alongs with a normal length class. *


 Our county has done a 15 day class set up timewise to end with the regular 3-night a week class that goes from May to begining of August. I'm not sure how it went, but it would almost make sense for highschool and college students who have summers free. The idea makes sense, but I would expect you would need to be "smarter than the average bear" to actually benifit from the class. (as in someone who actually ENJOYS 5-day-a-week classes for 3 weeks.


Jon


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## MMiz (Jan 7, 2005)

I saw that website a month or so ago and wasn't sure what to think.

I did my EMT class in six weeks.  I went M-F 9 AM - 5 PM and came in on one weekend for my hazmat and extrication training.  After the class I had a month worth of clinicals.  

I absolutely loved the format of the course, and I couldn't have become an EMT any other way.  It allowed me to become an EMT over the summer, and I can't even begin to tell you how much more I enjoyed it than the longer format.

I initially tried the semester-long course that met three times a week from 4-8 I believe.  I absolutely hated it, and I came to class tired and stressed after already attending a full day of class at college.  After three days I dropped it, and decided that I would take it in the summer "Academy" format.  

I loved taking the course in such an intense format.  I would wake up, study for an hour before class, go to class, then drive home, and study until I went to bed at night.  Some days like the AED, trauma, CPR classes didn't require as much studying, so in general I absolutely loved the class format.

15 days though, that's too short in my opinion.


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## SafetyPro2 (Jan 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MMiz_@Jan 7 2005, 09:03 PM
> * I initially tried the semester-long course that met three times a week from 4-8 I believe.  I absolutely hated it, and I came to class tired and stressed after already attending a full day of class at college.  After three days I dropped it, and decided that I would take it in the summer "Academy" format. *


 I was in the same boat, Matt. I was all signed up for a semester-long class at a local community college, but had to drop it when I got a new job that required 1-2 weeks of travel a month.

I ended up signing-up the next year for a 5 week course that met 4 to 10 PM every Monday through Thursday. I was able to adjust my travel schedule to leave those 5 weeks free and flex my hours. I ended up working from 6:30 AM to about 3 PM, then driving to class for another 6 hours. Was painful, but it went pretty fast and was worth it. Plus, the company I did it through was the only EMT program in the county that had a deal for the ride-alongs to be done with LA County Fire Dept. Paramedic squads (a la Johnny and Roy)...most programs have you ride with private ambulances on interfacility transports. During my ride-along shift, I got to see a lot more real-world EMS situations, including a traumatic full arrest (motorcycle accident) that was my first experience doing chest compressions.


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## MCSHughes (Jan 8, 2005)

Consider the 10 day CCEMT-P or 8 day PNCCT classes, same thing.  Gets you in, out, and generally fails the ones that can't keep up.  I think a 14 day EMT course isn't very good, but it may be reflective of the times in a sense.  Fast food, drive through banking, fast class...

How many EMT-A's REALLY remember six different types of shock anyway?  And, do they NEED to?

Something to think about.  Personally, I'd be a little worried about two week wonders.


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## Luno (Jan 8, 2005)

While my personal opinion when I heard this was the same as most of you, on further thought, I don't think it is as bad as most people think.  Here's why. 

In my opinion, EMT class only trains you to be field trainable.  Frankly, when I was on the rigs, I don't care if you show up like Ricky Rescue, with your own pulse oximeter on your belt, personalized BP cuff, and cardiologist Littman, you're still a rookie, and I can't even trust your BPs.  Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes.  The majority of the learning is done in the field, we used to have a saying, "the lesson needed to be taught, thankfully nobody died."  EMT class has very little that is taught in a practical means, can you deliver a baby, yeah, mostly common sense, Epi, okay, there's a couple hour lecture, BP, more practice than a teaching point, O2, well, pretty self explainatory, AED, there's brain surgery, Bleeding control, hmmm, covered in First Aid, GSW/Stabbing, see bleeding control, Cardiac Emergencies... well, there's an hour lecture max, CVAs... looks like a carrot, acts like a carrot, it's a carrot, long bone stabilization, basic again, behavioral emergencies, sorry, either you understand or you don't, scene safety? that's subjective.  The tables, hmmm, you might need them for the test, and they're a good guideline in the field, but if the kid is blue, they probably have a depressed resp rate.  

As a certification goes, I think it's good, let's get more people interested in the field, and get them to where they will learn something.  That's just my opinion,
Luke


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## rescuecpt (Jan 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Luno_@Jan 8 2005, 07:52 PM
> * While my personal opinion when I heard this was the same as most of you, on further thought, I don't think it is as bad as most people think.  Here's why.
> 
> In my opinion, EMT class only trains you to be field trainable.  Frankly, when I was on the rigs, I don't care if you show up like Ricky Rescue, with your own pulse oximeter on your belt, personalized BP cuff, and cardiologist Littman, you're still a rookie, and I can't even trust your BPs.  Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes.  The majority of the learning is done in the field, we used to have a saying, "the lesson needed to be taught, thankfully nobody died."  EMT class has very little that is taught in a practical means, can you deliver a baby, yeah, mostly common sense, Epi, okay, there's a couple hour lecture, BP, more practice than a teaching point, O2, well, pretty self explainatory, AED, there's brain surgery, Bleeding control, hmmm, covered in First Aid, GSW/Stabbing, see bleeding control, Cardiac Emergencies... well, there's an hour lecture max, CVAs... looks like a carrot, acts like a carrot, it's a carrot, long bone stabilization, basic again, behavioral emergencies, sorry, either you understand or you don't, scene safety? that's subjective.  The tables, hmmm, you might need them for the test, and they're a good guideline in the field, but if the kid is blue, they probably have a depressed resp rate.
> ...


 I agree, as long as there is someone in the field who is going to actually show them the ropes.  Some places let brand new EMT's ride on their own.


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## Summit (Jan 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Luno_@Jan 8 2005, 07:52 PM
> * Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes. *


 1000th? That's like 5-10 years in my current service.


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## ffemt8978 (Jan 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Luno_@Jan 8 2005, 05:52 PM
> * Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before [...] atleast a couple non-recoverable codes. *


 I do agree with this part, though.


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## Luno (Jan 10, 2005)

Okay, 1000, while it seems like a nice round number, here's why, in a busy EMS system, working as a pro, you should be able to hit this number in less than a year, i.e. 10 call outs per shift, this is a very simple "vetting" process.  Working a detroit/mod detroit schedule, i.e. 3 days out of 9, at 10 calls a shift, you have 121 working days.  This job field is about repetition, you don't get proficient at things by being taught, you get proficient by practice.  You may have an idea of how to splint a long bone, but you get good at it by practice.  One year/1000 pt count seems to be an adequate measure of a person's ability and commitment.  While I don't think that they should be not allowed to perform the work of an EMT, I do think there should be a sort of apprenticeship program, where your 1000th patient "graduates" you to the journeyman level.  Muscle memory takes a minimum of 10,000 repetitions, for multiple skills and changing conditions, I think that 1000 repetitions is a bare minimum.  As far as the non-recoverables go, I think everyone in the field needs to watch someone die, then you realize the fight that you're going into.  While not to say that people who haven't aren't capable, people who have seen someone die, despite their best efforts they just haven't seen what it's like to lose.  I think there should be a rating system, based on patient count.  While I thought I had seen it all, at 500 pts, 501 threw me a curve ball, I think 1000 pts gives someone a broad enough base to work through 99% of things that they will come across.


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## rescuecpt (Jan 11, 2005)

The only problem with that is in some places (non-professional for example) you don't get that same volume.  Does that make me less of an EMT?  I hope not.  That would go back to the discussion we had in another thread about vollies not being "real" EMTs.

I'd like to think, that while I don't personally get 1,000 calls a year, I'm still a damn good EMT and do right by my patients.  Could I be better if I got 1,000 calls a year?  Maybe.  But maybe I'd become a burn out and stop caring.

I guess there's no real way to measure except an EMT-off.  What do you say Luno?


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## coloradoemt (Jan 11, 2005)

I agree with what Luno has to say but just the point that repitition makes you proficient. But I also agree with rescuecpt in that a lack of call volume does not make a person less of an EMT. As a volunteer myself, on days off at home, I have run up to 6 calls in a day. What we dont have in steady call volume we make up for somewhat with trainings, 3-4 a month. Granted training can't fully take the place of calls, but it helps keep your skills up.  I have met some awesome volunteer EMT's. I have also met some EMT's who are in it just to drive the rig and could care less about running a call. I have met some full time folks who are at the same levels. Burn outs maybe?

I really do not want to get into a big argument about who is better than who. To me no one should be worried about that. One EMT should want to be and want everyone around them to be, the best they can be. It is just my opinion that if you are an EMT no matter where you are or what your call volume is I respect you until you do something stupid. I also will trust you know what you are doing until you tell me different or do something stupid. If you are in the EMS business you have my respect for putting yourself there and caring enough to be there.


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## Luno (Jan 11, 2005)

Erika, okay, when/where?  Really, I'm just kidding!!!     I am not one to draw the generalization that vollies are/are not EMTs/FFs/etc...  I will say that ColoradoEMT does have a good point, if you don't get the calls, you can always make up for it by training, sometimes it's better than post gaming calls.  I remain fairly convinced that 1000 is a good number, but that's just my opinion, everyone has opinions, and other anatomical references.... I think that training should be used toward that number, but by no means am I anyone who is on the NR board, or even on a rig anymore, but I've worked with alot of EMTs, and formed my opinion accordingly.  Erika, you're a volunteer, if you had a 1000 pt contacts in a year, you'd have no life, and would probably no longer have a job.  However, I do think that 1000 patients real or simulated (thanks Co.EMT) is a good benchmark to shoot for, not in a year, (unless you're pro, and in a busy urban system) but over your career.  By the way implementation of this would be in Luke's ideal world, which is far from reality..........


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## rescuecpt (Jan 11, 2005)

Luno, you know I'm only playin' with ya....

I hear what you're saying.

In my FD (not very busy) we have drills almost every week.  Three weeks of the month we do individual skill reviews - I pick a skill or topic, present a short review of it, then we practice on each other (traction splinting for example).  The fourth week we do a "live" drill in conjunction with the FF's... whatever day they're doing their vehicle extrication or smokehouse or whatnot, I arrange to have them throw a couple "patients" our way.  This way my crew gets to work in a more real-to-life situation, with the lights, sirens, radios, yelling, etc.  We drive around the neighborhood until we get called and then proceed to the scene as we would to a normal call (a little slower of course for safety).  We debrief it afterwards of course.

At the Corps, since we're much busier, we only drill 1x a month as a group - but since there's a probie on my shift we do the same sort of skill reviews almost every shift.  She hasn't started her EMT class yet but between the Corp's probie training and our practices she's almost as good as some full fledged EMT's I see.  It helps that one of my crew members is in medic class and the other teaches EMT-B.


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## Wingnut (Jan 11, 2005)

Ok opinion from a total newbie?? 

Well we have no short programs like that here, we only have the one regular semster long course for EMT-B. Also in our state we only have EMT-B's and paramedics, I don't know if EMT-I programs would warrant a different schedule for classes. BUT, after all the time I put into class and clinicals, I sure as hell wouldn't put myself out there alone to answer calls. We were pushed to learn a lot of information in our short class time, the clinical time itself wasn't long enough to produce a good amount of experience and we were learning what we needed to pass the national registry, not what is actually practiced out in the field. Fortunately, if I was to get hired by our county EMS I would have 3 months of training through our system before they'd consider me an EMT. 

I'm confident in my abilities and knowledge in BLS, But I am not confident that I could handle a call efficiently with no mistakes, let alone perfection. I definitely couldn't see a 14 day class being sufficient.

Maybe it's like those PCI schools where you pay a bunch of money to get a degree after a few weeks of study in the mail and no one will ever hire you with it?


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## rescuecpt (Jan 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wingnut_@Jan 11 2005, 08:30 PM
> * Ok opinion from a total newbie??
> 
> Well we have no short programs like that here, we only have the one regular semster long course for EMT-B. Also in our state we only have EMT-B's and paramedics, I don't know if EMT-I programs would warrant a different schedule for classes. BUT, after all the time I put into class and clinicals, I sure as hell wouldn't put myself out there alone to answer calls. We were pushed to learn a lot of information in our short class time, the clinical time itself wasn't long enough to produce a good amount of experience and we were learning what we needed to pass the national registry, not what is actually practiced out in the field. Fortunately, if I was to get hired by our county EMS I would have 3 months of training through our system before they'd consider me an EMT.
> ...


 People get hired with the 14 day class here all the time.

I think a lot of it comes from your background too.

I went into EMS after having been a lifeguard for 6 years, a medic first aid instructor for 2 years, and after having lived in a foreign country doing adventure guide sort of stuff.  I had a lot of experience with emergency situations - I've been to hospitals around the world, doctors offices, on life flights - but all before I was ever an EMT.

Of course, I still had to learn the "etiquette" of EMS and how to actually RUN a call.

Every person is in a different situation, some do well with 14 days, some don't... it's up to their field supervisors to supplement their training if necessary.


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## Wingnut (Jan 12, 2005)

Good point, maybe it's a personality thing or a zone of comfort thing. I came into EMT after 2 years of being a veterinary tech. (we had some emergency calls, but of course it's very different than this.) and 8 years of pharmacy so I wasn't totally foreign to the medical field, but very unfamiliar with emergency situations.


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## kyleybug (Jan 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wingnut_@Jan 11 2005, 08:30 PM
> * Well we have no short programs like that here, we only have the one regular semster long course for EMT-B. Also in our state we only have EMT-B's and paramedics, I don't know if EMT-I programs would warrant a different schedule for classes. *


 I took the EMT-IV course at our Community college and it took me 2 full semesters. We went from 4pm to 10 pm 2 nights a week and if you didn't get at least a "C" in the first semester then you didn't get to take the second half which included the IV part. I went into this not knowing squat about any of it. I was so determined though that I kept an A thouout the whole thing simply because I didn't want anything to slip by me and I wanted to make sure I passed NR. I then got into the "real" world and found out I still didn't know squat and still don't after almost a year of it. I work for a very busy service and every day I still learn something new, Luno is right about the experience being the only way to "really" know what you are doing. Sure you need to be armed in taking vitals before you set out but the real learning comes from just flat out doing it and hoping that no one dies in the process due to not knowing something and yes I am in that situation more than I care to be because I do run a BLS truck somedays and I only have a driver, just a driver with no medical training whatsoever and let me tell ya it is those days that I get into some crap and end up having to respond to ALS calls because there are no trucks available and I am it.......scares the h*ll out of me. I haven't killed anyone yet and I ALWAYS pull the protocol book on the way to the scene just to "freshen up" and hope dispatch has actually given the right info. I hate to think that a 14 day course is available and that these students are actually set free to run calls on their own, that really scares the H*ll out of me


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## Wingnut (Jan 13, 2005)

Kyleybug, I salute you, I can only imagine how scary that must be. That's why I feel lucky that we only have ALS, because I would always have a medic there to back me up, of course until I become the medic, then I'll be scared sh**less too.  

You said it a lot better than I did, I should have just said after all my training I'm still terrified, (and I was top of my class) I can't imagine only 14 days of training. But that's me. But that's what I get for trying to reason it out lol, I confuse myself sometimes. Ok, most of the time, but that's not the point.

Kyley it sounds like you have a good grasp on it though, you look over your books, you worked hard, you pay attention and can admit to your feelings about it. I've seen some of the EMT's coming out of my class thinking they could save everyone and thinking they know as much if not more than people who have experience. THAT scares me even more.


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## kyleybug (Jan 13, 2005)

Wingnut,
Thank you for the salute but i really don't deserve one! I just do the best I can and call for an ALS truck even when I know there isn't one   I just tell my driver if i get in over my head that I need to be at the ER YESTERDAY, they just drive like H*ll and get us there. It is scary sometimes and I just pray that I never see the day that one craps out on me in the truck because I do run on an ALS truck they all are and I am not sure if I could NOT use the ALS stuff to save someone, it is there and I do know the drugs and indications and doses, I just don't think i could let someone die in my truck because I am not alowed to give adenocard, or lidocaine, or any of the others on the truck, I am afraid that one day I will go out of my scope because I can not lose a life and live with myself for not wanting to leave my scope, it is that grey area that I guess until it happens I won't know what I will do. Well I do know what i will do and that scares me because I will have to answer for it, and so be it. I will atleast be able to live with myself afterwards  I think you sound like you have a good grip on things, just never think you have it all down pat because that is when you screw up  . I have the privilage of working with a few medics that are brand new(not even EMT first) and let me tell you what THEY SCARE ME  more than i do myself!


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## Wingnut (Jan 13, 2005)

Well see I have to correct you, I think anyone in this field who can keep a good head on thier shoulders and admit their strong points /weaknesses deserves a salute, SO There! You do deserve one. 

I know how you feel, that's why I'm getting my AS in this field, I'm just one of those people that has to know everything and be able to do as much as I can. I drive people nuts with questions but I feel better knowing the info. I told my husband if we ever won lotto I'd be a perennial college student, there's a bout 8 degrees I'd like to get.

Believe me I understand about the new medics, I'll be working as a medic, but not now as an EMT (too much with kids, class, & hubby's schedule) Fortunately there's an intense training program once we get hired so I'll be a bit less apprehensive about being on my own out there. Thanks for compliment, I like to think I have a grip on some things, but it tends to get slippery lol. Damn K-Y.


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## Jon (Jan 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kyleybug_@Jan 13 2005, 08:56 PM
> * I just do the best I can and call for an ALS truck even when I know there isn't one   I just tell my driver if i get in over my head that I need to be at the ER YESTERDAY, they just drive like H*ll and get us there.
> 
> *


 We call that a diesel Drip... :lol:


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 13, 2005)

Not a Diesel drip... Hi flow diesel exhaust     :lol:


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## kyleybug (Jan 14, 2005)

Ya'll are crazy :lol:


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kyleybug_@Jan 14 2005, 06:53 AM
> * Ya'll are crazy :lol: *


 Thank you!


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## coloradoemt (Jan 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kyleybug_@Jan 14 2005, 04:53 AM
> * Ya'll are crazy :lol: *


 I dont think I have ever heard a more sweet, totally sincere, extremely flattering, full of love and careing, makes me shed a tear, heart skips a beat, face flush with embarrassment, mega honoring, compliment my entire life!!!


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## ffemt8978 (Jan 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by coloradoemt+Jan 15 2005, 07:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (coloradoemt @ Jan 15 2005, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kyleybug_@Jan 14 2005, 04:53 AM
> * Ya'll are crazy :lol: *


I dont think I have ever heard a more sweet, totally sincere, extremely flattering, full of love and careing, makes me shed a tear, heart skips a beat, face flush with embarrassment, mega honoring, compliment my entire life!!!   [/b][/quote]
 Ditto


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## ksEMTbabe (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Summit+Jan 10 2005, 12:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (Summit @ Jan 10 2005, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Luno_@Jan 8 2005, 07:52 PM
> * Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes. *


1000th? That's like 5-10 years in my current service. [/b][/quote]
 No kidding!  Guess Kansas isn't exactly the most exciting place to be when it comes to EMS...or anything else for that matter (Not that everyone didn't know that already  ) A busy 24 around here is 2 medicals and a meth lab explosion


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## 40sCutest (Jan 23, 2005)

My class was accelerated. Only 3 months but 14 days is just too quick... I think I wouldn't trust very many people going through that class to care for me.


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## Wingnut (Jan 23, 2005)

I took our regular class at the community college for EMT-B, it was 3 months. It's not accelerated in our state, that's the norm.


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## DFDEMS (Jan 26, 2005)

When I went through the US Army medic class way back when you were tested as NREMT-B the second or third week. 

14 days is way to short. 6 months seems way to long. Practical application of the skills after the class (i.e. road experience) is what makes an EMT or medic a good one, not a piece of paper


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