# Do sirens 'NEED' to be on while driving code 3?



## EMTzimp (Aug 21, 2013)

My partner and I were having a discussion about the use of sirens while driving code 3. If anyone can quote from a source such as DOT, CHP, EVOC, CEVO or vehicle code source that would be great. We are in Orange County, Calif. 
Question is.... Do you need to have siren on while driving Code 3 to a call?
I understand if its 3 am and no one around then obviously be curtious and don't wake people up unless needed to safely operate ambulance. I also understand that If you come to a completely blocked intersection with red light then shut it down and resume code 3 when light is green and safe. Can anyone site sources regarding if sirens need to be on while driving code 3 with lights?

Thanks guys!


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 21, 2013)

I'm too lazy to look it up on my phone or CHP handbook but I know most ambulance companies have a policy of lights and sirens or nothing at all. Kind of an all or nothing policy.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 21, 2013)

All you need to go Code 3 is a single steady-burning red lamp that's visible from the front for 1000 feet in the daytime. Everything else is considered a warning lamp/equipment. You are to use the red lamp _and_ the other warning equipment whenever it's necessary to do so. Remember, when you're running Code 3, you're _the most hazardous thing on the road_. If it's prudent to use the siren, you use it. If it's prudent to use the warning lights, you use them. That's the standard you'll be judged by if you make a mistake.


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## Anonymous (Aug 21, 2013)

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21055.htm

As I understand it sirens are for use when reasonably necessary. All that is required for an emergency vehicle is a steady solid red light visible from a certain distance. 

Issue is if you were ever to be in an accident and the other person claims they did not see/hear you. Then I would say it was "reasonably necessary" to be using a siren.


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## Anonymous (Aug 21, 2013)

Akulahawk said:


> All you need to go Code 3 is a single steady-burning red lamp that's visible from the front for 1000 feet in the daytime. Everything else is considered a warning lamp/equipment. You are to use the red lamp _and_ the other warning equipment whenever it's necessary to do so. Remember, when you're running Code 3, you're _the most hazardous thing on the road_. If it's prudent to use the siren, you use it. If it's prudent to use the warning lights, you use them. That's the standard you'll be judged by if you make a mistake.



beat me to it...


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## Mariemt (Aug 21, 2013)

In Iowa we can run just lights.  We do many transfers to south Dakota and if it is an emergent transport and we have to flip on lights,  by law we have to run sirens too


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## chaz90 (Aug 21, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> In Iowa we can run just lights.  We do many transfers to south Dakota and if it is an emergent transport and we have to flip on lights,  by law we have to run sirens too



Must be because of the incredibly dense population in South Dakota.


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## Anonymous (Aug 21, 2013)

Also OP refer to your companies policy. Most services, especially if CAAS accredited have standards above what is required by law.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 21, 2013)

It's state/county/agency specific.

My state and county say no, sirens DO NOT need to be activated when the disco lights are.

My agency's policy says "all or nothing". Only exception is residential zones after 2230 and before 0630.


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## xrsm002 (Aug 21, 2013)

I asked a stare judge in Texas about this for Texas an emergency vehicle is by law supposed to have their siren on anytime they are running emergency lights while the vehicle is in motion.


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## xrsm002 (Aug 21, 2013)

State*u


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 21, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> Must be because of the incredibly dense population in South Dakota.



Deer population...


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## JPINFV (Aug 22, 2013)

As an additional note for California, vehicles aren't -required- to pull over unless you have a siren on. The only thing the light does is exempt you from the rules of the road except for due regard and passing school buses with their red lights/stop sign on. 

Personally, if the driver can't be trusted to read the situation and determine when the siren is needed, they can't be trusted to read the situation and determine when to engage in otherwise illegal actions.


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## exodus (Aug 22, 2013)

Law is one thing, company policy is the other. Follow company policy unless you are willing to risk your job.

With that said, half the time I don't even turn the lights / sirens on when responding to certain parts of our county and it's early morning. But, I do follow the laws as there's no traffic lights on those areas and you're required to stop at a stop sign anyway.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 22, 2013)

exodus said:


> Law is one thing, company policy is the other. Follow company policy unless you are willing to risk your job.
> 
> With that said, half the time I don't even turn the lights / sirens on when responding to certain parts of our county and it's early morning. But, I do follow the laws as there's no traffic lights on those areas and you're required to stop at a stop sign anyway.



If your out east or sky valley lol. 

If I'm in DHS I want to drive code to get out of that city fast :rofl:


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## TechYourself (Aug 22, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> Deer population...



Especially west river... East river is just lost Minnesotans.


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## Medic Tim (Aug 22, 2013)

In Maine by law if the lights are on the siren is as well....or you are not considered an emergency vehicle.

Where I am in Canada we are only required to have the siren on when approaching a vehicle, pedestrian, controlled/uncontrolled intersection, blind hills/corners, etc..... company policy is if the lights are on so is the siren.


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## 94H (Aug 22, 2013)

PA protocols say the siren must be _energized_ while operating code 3. I take that to mean that the siren box is on while the siren does not necessarily need to be sounding


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## Bullets (Aug 23, 2013)

NJ does not distinguish between lights and sirens but groups them in one term, "Emergency Warning Devices". The law is written in such a manner that they are a single unit. So if your lights are on, your siren is too. Some emergency vehicles are now being built so that when you are in drive and you turn on your lights, the siren automatically turns on....


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 23, 2013)

emsflyer said:


> Especially west river... East river is just lost Minnesotans.



Or Iowegians.

:rofl:


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## NBFFD2433 (Nov 16, 2013)

Depends on your state rules.


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## CFal (Nov 16, 2013)

Can run lights without siren but not siren without lights.


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## Mariemt (Nov 16, 2013)

CFal said:


> Can run lights without siren but not siren without lights.


 I would hope no state allows sirens without lights


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## mycrofft (Nov 16, 2013)

IS there a legal definition and recognition of the phrase "Code 3" anywhere?


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## epipusher (Nov 16, 2013)

As an occasional fellow Iowa EMS provider I was unable to locate a specific law regarding this question. Regardless of any law it is company policy.


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## Mariemt (Nov 16, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> IS there a legal definition and recognition of the phrase "Code 3" anywhere?


It is not called code 3 here at all. It is called 10-33 , derived from 10 codes.


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## Mariemt (Nov 16, 2013)

epipusher said:


> As an occasional fellow Iowa EMS provider I was unable to locate a specific law regarding this question. Regardless of any law it is company policy.



Iowa does not require sirens with lights as a law itself, locally it may be different in certain cities or counties. Company policy may be different .
MN and SD require sirens with any lights


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 16, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> IS there a legal definition and recognition of the phrase "Code 3" anywhere?



We call it RLS (red lights and sirens).

I'll try and find our state statute about it.

Edit: they just refer to it as "visual and audible warning signals activated"


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## mycrofft (Nov 16, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> Iowa does not require sirens with lights as a law itself, locally it may be different in certain cities or counties. Company policy may be different .
> MN and SD require sirens with any lights



And most places are doing away (or did away, years ago) with the Tens-Codes. (I so miss 10-8, 10-19 at the end of a run. Like good coffee after a good meal). All this shows how even with federal NIMS and etc coordination between agencies tends to stray.


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 17, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> And most places are doing away (or did away, years ago) with the Tens-Codes. (I so miss 10-8, 10-19 at the end of a run. Like good coffee after a good meal). All this shows how even with federal NIMS and etc coordination between agencies tends to stray.



We still use some 10-codes. 10-4, 10-8, 10-32, 10-78.


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## NBFFD2433 (Nov 17, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> I would hope no state allows sirens without lights



LOL! I agree. :rofl:


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> I would hope no state allows sirens without lights



We had a fire department request that we respond to a call with no light but the siren. Our response to the request was "no".


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## mycrofft (Nov 17, 2013)

We had big cue cards for deaf drivers.



not


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## Jim37F (Nov 17, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> We had a fire department request that we respond to a call with no light but the siren. Our response to the request was "no".



Did they say why they wanted such a thing?


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## Mariemt (Nov 17, 2013)

Because it is a fire department and they like sirens?


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> Did they say why they wanted such a thing?



Nope.


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 17, 2013)

Talk about the ultimate confusion. Especially if there's another emergency vehicle at that intersection.

We get people that call 911 all the time if our lights aren't working properly.

"Medic 338, we're getting reports your lightbar isn't operating (or only your lightbar is operating)."


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

Robb said:


> Talk about the ultimate confusion. Especially if there's another emergency vehicle at that intersection.
> 
> We get people that call 911 all the time if our lights aren't working properly.
> 
> "Medic 338, we're getting reports your lightbar isn't operating (or only your lightbar is operating)."



We get the calls to our supervisors saying we turned the lights and siren on just to go thru an intersection and then turn them off to beat traffic. Our supervisors have to nicely explain what a cancel is.


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## chaz90 (Nov 17, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> Because it is a fire department and they like sirens?



I chortled


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 8, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> IS there a legal definition and recognition of the phrase "Code 3" anywhere?



I doubt it, that concept doesn't exist in Maryland. Here in MD, it's Priority 1.

(Don't get me started on that though, we group "no patient care required" and "dead on scene" both as Priority 4 for reporting, but if you say you have a Priority 4 patient on the radio, it better mean a dead body.  Also, a lot of places seem to break Priority 2 responses down further to 2E (emergency) and 2Non (Emergency).  At least Priority 3 is clear...)


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## xrsm002 (Jan 8, 2014)

In Texas the state law says yes. I asked a good friend of mine this whose also a judge.


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## ZombieEMT (Jan 9, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> We get the calls to our supervisors saying we turned the lights and siren on just to go thru an intersection and then turn them off to beat traffic. Our supervisors have to nicely explain what a cancel is.



There are many times when I shut down all lights/sirens until we approach the intersection to clear it. Many times, especially considering I mainly work nights, they provide no advantage at all because there is nobody on the road. There are also just as many times that I shut lights/sirens down when we approach the interection if it is too congested.

Lights and sirens are just a disruption at night time. Dont use them if you really do not need them. I was always tought, if lights are on, so are sirens, but many times I only run lights to move cars but save my ears and other ears.


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## jeepdude911 (Jan 9, 2014)

Depends on your state and company. CA says a forward facing, steady burning red light visible for 1000 feet. However, both private agencies I worked for supersede that with an all or nothing policy. Be careful, if you work for one of these companies and decide that the noise is unnecessary at 2a.m., be sure first if your rig is equipped with GPS or one of the other systems that telemeter your rig info in real time to dispatch before you run bright and quiet. You could wind up explaining yourself to a field sup.


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## RescueRider724 (Feb 9, 2014)

PA requires all Fire Departments to respond with lights and siren on all calls except a service call (i.e. tree limb down, flooded basement, etc.) for EMS though they have it broken down in to E1 (Priority call lights and sirens), E2 (rapid response needed, can use lights and siren to clear intersections) E3 non emergent call but medical assistance is needed.  Some counties also have an E0 for Cardiac arrest or massive uncontrolled bleeding, guess that means go really fast?!? :glare: QRS at the fire departments follows the EMS regulations for medical calls and Fire for fire related calls.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 31, 2014)

Here in the Northwest Territories the Motor Vehicle Act specifies both lights and siren to be activated when driving priority 1 or code 3.


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