# LA County Enough is enough!!



## DarksideIV (Jan 15, 2012)

In the end I know this is going to draw crowds from both sides of the lines. You'll have the "proud to work and have a job" type of people and the "we deserve better". Myself, I'll clearly stand on the we deserve better platform.
It used to be that we worked as EMT's thinking that a least we'd always have a job, thinking that if we get fired or decide to quit or our company goes under, that we'll easily pick up somewhere else. In the end, it's all the same, every company, all they pay, all the "respect", all the drama and the fraud.
We work in a field that a lot of people believe we get paid big money for, and we laugh at that. Its a sad sight that some of us here probably make just as much as anyone in a fast food joint or whatever.
Myself , I work with an IFT company that has grown fast. I started there at 4 rigs an have expanded to thirty in a little under 2 years. You would think a little seniority, a little loyalty, a little actually doing your job the way it's supposed to be done will get you somewhere. No. In fact it's gotten me to less pay then what I was promised, cut hours (and don't feed me this bad economy story, Medicare pays what it pays and it's not dimes and nickels), and all the same BS well all have stories to say about.
In the end, though many of your will disagree and simply say "get a better job" "quit" an all that non supportive stuff you get all the time, we all deserve better than where we are at. Better pay, better job security, actual respect.
This is all for all my LA county, Orange Co, even Riverside Co. We're better than what we are being paid for. Let's not longer just accept what we are given, because we are better than that. We make the company money, we have some control than what were led to believe but we have to stick together. It's not one man vs all. Without us, the company falls. Maybe it'll be another Russian or Armenian making another IFT, Doing the same bs, but we can make our voices heard.
Some say union, some say strike, whatever. Whatever it takes for us to get what we deserve, I think we should do it.
Now let the crap roll out...


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 15, 2012)




----------



## Shishkabob (Jan 15, 2012)

California sucks.  Move to a state that does EMS right.  Get a certification that's actually going to get you more than minimum wage.


----------



## Joe (Jan 15, 2012)

i do alright in laco... my pay checks are a little over 1000 every 2 weeks and i dont pick up any ot shifts. our division is union so that may be why. i feel i am over paid as an emt is laco. for the amount of work we do in the field and then we get to go back to station and watch tv or workout or whatever. so i dont know what to tell you man...


----------



## DarksideIV (Jan 15, 2012)

Yeah I never really had that luxury of going back to station, at least not till end of shift. I'm not at all promoting I want to be lazy and do nothing and get paid for it, I want us to be paid what we deserve. And there'll be a lot of difference in opinion on what we deserve...


----------



## Imacho (Jan 15, 2012)

What company has you bent out of shape?


----------



## Woodtownemt (Jan 15, 2012)

I completely agree. LaCo/CA ems is a disgrace. When I went into
This field I thought I would make a difference and have a degree of some
Kind of proffesional respect. Instead I got the opposite. Union might be one
Option on a employer level but ca scope of practice is still what it is. 
Till that is challenged and change working as a emt will still not be as fulfilling.
we shouldn't have to move out of state to be an emt that is just
Ridiculous. Agree to disagree. I am happy to be employed at this time and place
And I go to work everyday trying to make the best of it not just for me but my family and my patients. LaCo/ CA SOP needs to be revamped for the better good of any one 
Who finds themself sick in a ambulance or working in a ambulance


----------



## terrible one (Jan 15, 2012)

You have a cert of 120 hours of education and work in a field that has an extremely over saturated market. How much pay above minimum wage do you think you "deserve"?
But I do agree LAcounty and CA for that matter blows.


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 15, 2012)

Don't like how your company is being run and don't want to leave? Get into a management or leadership position and start effecting change.

Don't like how the county or state is being run? Start working with officials at those levels. Contact the LEMSA and see when the committe meetings are and find out if you can attend. 

Don't like the education standards? Start getting involved with education both at the educator level and at a political level. Get connected. 

There's always the option of becoming a paramedic (since there are scope of practice complaints involved), RN, or physician and become involved at the government/medical director level. 

Crying "Woe is me," however, is not an option.


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2012)

JPINFV said:


>



Is this lightly buttered or?


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2012)

Woodtownemt said:


> I completely agree. LaCo/CA ems is a disgrace. When I went into
> This field I thought I would make a difference and have a degree of some
> Kind of proffesional respect. Instead I got the opposite. Union might be one
> Option on a employer level but ca scope of practice is still what it is.
> ...



The EMT acope will not change, the Paramedics there can barely fucntion at the Level of a Basic, so there is no way the Basics themselves will get any love.


----------



## 46Young (Jan 15, 2012)

@ the OP, if you were to quit tomorrow, how many applicants would there be to take your place? This is why your working conditions are poor. Like others say, move to another area where EMT's and medics are in more demand, or change fields. The EMS situation isn't going to change anytime soon. The transient nature of the field will derail any attempts at organization and unionization.


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jan 15, 2012)

I make enough money to live on. Yeah the pay isn't the best but then again it's only about 120 hours to become an EMT. For the amount of knowledge most EMTs have the pay matchs up.


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 15, 2012)

Enough money to live on is a job.

Enough money to buy a house, money for a retirement investment plan, decent medical benefits including vision, good dental, paid sick leave, and full-time employment is a career.

Of course, Oregon and some other places have been like this for decades!


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 15, 2012)

How many places are such that just being an EMT (in contrast to being in management or being involved in the educational side in a manner that requires current practice, etc) is a career?


----------



## Amberlamps916 (Jan 15, 2012)

There are about 267368458536 ambulance companies in LA County. Alot of them are run by people who are only in it for the money, namely the IFT's. EMT-B in LA county is not a career, it's a stepping stone for something that involves more training and responsibilities. Making about $10 bucks an hour to be a expensive medical taxi is just the way it is. Btw, San Bernardino and Kern county seem to have their **** together, compared to the rest of socal atleast.


----------



## Chief Complaint (Jan 15, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> How many places are such that just being an EMT (in contrast to being in management or being involved in the educational side in a manner that requires current practice, etc) is a career?



Around here we are fire based so if you are an EMT, its a career, the money is great.  In terms of only being an EMT (private companies), no way is that a career.  Those guys only make like $14/hr and they work 24 hour shifts where they are not allowed to sleep.


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 15, 2012)

EMT-fire fighters are not just EMTs.


----------



## Chief Complaint (Jan 15, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> EMT-fire fighters are not just EMTs.



Thats why i clarified.


----------



## shfd739 (Jan 15, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> How many places are such that just being an EMT (in contrast to being in management or being involved in the educational side in a manner that requires current practice, etc) is a career?



Where I work is.

I understand to an extent where the OP is coming from. However unless you leave that part of Cali nothing will change. There isnt a reason for it to change.


----------



## STXmedic (Jan 15, 2012)

shfd739 said:


> Where I work is.
> 
> I understand to an extent where the OP is coming from. However unless you leave that part of Cali nothing will change. There isnt a reason for it to change.



How much do yalls basics make?


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> How many places are such that just being an EMT (in contrast to being in management or being involved in the educational side in a manner that requires current practice, etc) is a career?



Texas, 38k to be a Basic in some places


----------



## Fish (Jan 15, 2012)

shfd739 said:


> Where I work is.
> 
> I understand to an extent where the OP is coming from. However unless you leave that part of Cali nothing will change. There isnt a reason for it to change.



Acadian is the highest paying private in Texas, outside of them. Medstar and a few Counties pay well enough for a career.


----------



## Farmer2DO (Jan 16, 2012)

Chief Complaint said:


> Around here we are fire based so if you are an EMT, its a career, the money is great.  In terms of only being an EMT (private companies), no way is that a career.  Those guys only make like $14/hr and they work 24 hour shifts where they are not allowed to sleep.



24 hour shifts and not allowed to sleep?  In New York State, that's a violation of labor law.


----------



## Fish (Jan 16, 2012)

Farmer2DO said:


> 24 hour shifts and not allowed to sleep?  In New York State, that's a violation of labor law.



$14 for an EMT in CA for a 24hr shift? Where was this when I was an EMT


----------



## shfd739 (Jan 16, 2012)

Fish said:


> $14 for an EMT in CA for a 24hr shift? Where was this when I was an EMT



Forget as an EMT. How about when i was a new paramedic


----------



## Fish (Jan 16, 2012)

shfd739 said:


> Forget as an EMT. How about when i was a new paramedic



True, I started off at $10.91 an hour in San Diego


----------



## Chief Complaint (Jan 16, 2012)

Farmer2DO said:


> 24 hour shifts and not allowed to sleep?  In New York State, that's a violation of labor law.



There is no rule about sleeping, but there is ZERO down time between runs.  They are often sent on transports of 10+ hours.  As soon as they drop off one patient they are sent to pick up another.


----------



## Remeber343 (Jan 16, 2012)

You volunteered for the job buddy, they didnt ask you.  I second the others opinions. Be proactive and get into management or other proactive things.


----------



## Farmer2DO (Jan 16, 2012)

Remeber343 said:


> You volunteered for the job buddy, they didnt ask you.  I second the others opinions. Be proactive and get into management or other proactive things.



Really?  So because someone wasn't recruited, or isn't there against their will, it's OK for their employer to treat them however they want?  Heap abuse on them, provide working conditions most would consider unethical and in many places are illegal?  

While doing nothing ensures that nothing will change, the guy should be able to come here and vent among peers without being $hit on by them too.


----------



## Farmer2DO (Jan 16, 2012)

Chief Complaint said:


> There is no rule about sleeping, but there is ZERO down time between runs.  They are often sent on transports of 10+ hours.  As soon as they drop off one patient they are sent to pick up another.



Again, labor law in NY says that there is a limit on the consecutive hours that can be required between shifts without rest.  I'm pretty sure it's 16.  

24 hours shifts that run constantly without a break are a recipe for disaster.  It's unethical, and should be illegal.  It shows that the employer doesn't give a damn for the well being of their employees OR their patients.


----------



## Chief Complaint (Jan 16, 2012)

Farmer2DO said:


> Again, labor law in NY says that there is a limit on the consecutive hours that can be required between shifts without rest.  I'm pretty sure it's 16.
> 
> 24 hours shifts that run constantly without a break are a recipe for disaster.  It's unethical, and should be illegal.  It shows that the employer doesn't give a damn for the well being of their employees OR their patients.



I couldn't agree with you more.  That's just the way it works here unfortunately.


----------



## RocketMedic (Jan 16, 2012)

Where's here?


----------



## Fish (Jan 16, 2012)

Rocketmedic40 said:


> Where's here?



California


----------



## Remeber343 (Jan 16, 2012)

Farmer2DO said:


> Really?  So because someone wasn't recruited, or isn't there against their will, it's OK for their employer to treat them however they want?  Heap abuse on them, provide working conditions most would consider unethical and in many places are illegal?
> 
> While doing nothing ensures that nothing will change, the guy should be able to come here and vent among peers without being $hit on by them too.



Actually if you read I said he can help make a difference. And if you don't like it or they don't allow you to help change get out of it.


----------



## Fish (Jan 16, 2012)

LA EMS system= Boo

Infact are there any good EMS systems in CA?

Riverside does Well, San Louis Obispo, Hall in bakersfield. Where else?


----------



## FourLoko (Jan 16, 2012)

The pay should be higher for the simple fact that we're transporting human beings. Wait, isn't that what a Taxi does? Well our human beings are sick and their family is relying on us to keep a good eye on them. If these people knew how little we were paid they probably wouldn't trust us or set foot in the ambulance.  

Add to that the stress of piloting a multi-thousand dollar vehicle for 10 - 12 hours a day knowing full well that should you hit anything you could be fired.

The IFT I'm working at starts us at under $10/hour which is pretty normal and terribly pathetic. The fast food workers probably make as much and we know fast foot places get busy but who really gets hurt when your fries are taking longer than you expected?


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 16, 2012)

It was the same in 1977, 78, 79, 80, 81...


----------



## terrible one (Jan 16, 2012)

FourLoko said:


> The pay should be higher for the simple fact that we're transporting human beings. Wait, isn't that what a Taxi does? Well our human beings are sick and their family is relying on us to keep a good eye on them. If these people knew how little we were paid they probably wouldn't trust us or set foot in the ambulance.
> 
> Add to that the stress of piloting a multi-thousand dollar vehicle for 10 - 12 hours a day knowing full well that should you hit anything you could be fired.
> 
> The IFT I'm working at starts us at under $10/hour which is pretty normal and terribly pathetic. The fast food workers probably make as much and we know fast foot places get busy but who really gets hurt when your fries are taking longer than you expected?




How many people volunteer or do it for a small stipend? 
As said many times before look at the job market for EMTs/paramedics right now. Your education can be completed in 2 weeks and if you quit your terribly paid occupation I bet your management can walk outside and find an EMT to do it within a few blocks. What incentive do they have to pay more?


----------



## Joe (Jan 16, 2012)

honestly it all depends on the company your with. maybe im just not burnt out yet but i absolutely love working with my partner, the fire squads we run with treat us like were one of them, im outside driving around, and after we clear a call we are second up so we get to skip a call before were 1st up again. our pay is low but with the new year coming around the ot is starting back up. on the 29th im switching from 12s to 24s so my opinon may change lol. starting pay. 12s=12 and some change per hr. 24s its around 10. the base pay equals out to around 30k starting per year before ot shifts. thats not bad for an entry level job playing red light taxi. i will admit, i got a sweet gig with a big company. its my first emt job and im pretty lucky i am with a primary 911 company.


----------



## Amberlamps916 (Jan 16, 2012)

San Bernardino County runs things very well compared to the rest of socal.


----------



## Fish (Jan 16, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> San Bernardino County runs things very well compared to the rest of socal.



That too, and I hear they receive proper pay


----------



## tacitblue (Jan 16, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> Don't like how your company is being run and don't want to leave? Get into a management or leadership position and start effecting change.
> 
> Don't like how the county or state is being run? Start working with officials at those levels. Contact the LEMSA and see when the committe meetings are and find out if you can attend.
> 
> ...



This.

10char


----------



## firetender (Jan 16, 2012)

It's all about supply and demand. As noted many times before, we're talking an over-saturated market, therefore the companies, big and small, have no worries when it comes to filling spots.

That's called power.

Change can only come through raising standards.

You can wait for someone to raise the standards around you or you can raise your own standards.

Based on experience, Union organizing, especially in a world populated by transients, is an exercise in futility.


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jan 16, 2012)

Fish said:


> That too, and I hear they receive proper pay



They recieve the same pay as Riverside county. Pretty much the exact same protocols.


----------



## SanDiegoEmt7 (Jan 16, 2012)

Honestly, IFT shouldn't really be handled by EMS.  It should be more like a medical transport companies.  With CPR certified attendants who can help patients administer oxygen.  I mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:, a good deal of companies don't even carry AEDs.  How can you call yourself EMS without an AED.

Once the IFT is stopped from being mislabeled as EMS, then super excited EMTs will stop being let down by their new super cool saving the world job.


----------



## Fish (Jan 16, 2012)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> Honestly, IFT shouldn't really be handled by EMS.  It should be more like a medical transport companies.  With CPR certified attendants who can help patients administer oxygen.  I mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:, a good deal of companies don't even carry AEDs.  How can you call yourself EMS without an AED.
> 
> Once the IFT is stopped from being mislabeled as EMS, then super excited EMTs will stop being let down by their new super cool saving the world job.



True, we did not have AEDs at the BLS IFT company I worked for.


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 16, 2012)




----------



## Tigger (Jan 16, 2012)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> Honestly, IFT shouldn't really be handled by EMS.  It should be more like a medical transport companies.  With CPR certified attendants who can help patients administer oxygen.  I mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:, a good deal of companies don't even carry AEDs.  How can you call yourself EMS without an AED.
> 
> Once the IFT is stopped from being mislabeled as EMS, then super excited EMTs will stop being let down by their new super cool saving the world job.



I can't believe there are still places that allow ambulances to operate without AEDs. Or I guess I can believe it, but it's just saddening. Even if all you do is IFT it seems like it would be quite embarrassing to be flagged down for an arrest and have to tell everyone that why yes we are an ambulance but no, we do not have an AED.

I would also agree that ideally IFT and EMS would become separate entities. At the very least it would be great to see some sort of "IFT operations" and disease pathology taught in basic classes. A solid 90% of my IFT duties were learned on the job--everything from paperwork to patient movement. I wonder though if anyone would want to take an "IFT class" if they knew what the job was like.


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 16, 2012)

Wan more pay? Staff and equip to use a real 12 lead and defibrillator.


----------



## Tigger (Jan 16, 2012)

firetender said:


> It's all about supply and demand. As noted many times before, we're talking an over-saturated market, therefore the companies, big and small, have no worries when it comes to filling spots.
> 
> That's called power.
> 
> ...



I've raised my own standards but sadly that has not resulted in me being paid anymore money, though it has raised my job satisfaction, which is indeed worthwhile.


----------



## DrParasite (Jan 16, 2012)

46Young said:


> @ the OP, if you were to quit tomorrow, how many applicants would there be to take your place? This is why your working conditions are poor.


with all due respect, in YOUR job, if you quit tomorrow, how many applicants would be there to take your place?  I bet you have at least 10 applicants for every one position, and if you quit tomorrow, your spot could be filled by the weekend (assuming all the background check and all the testing was completed).





SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> Honestly, IFT shouldn't really be handled by EMS.  It should be more like a medical transport companies.  With CPR certified attendants who can help patients administer oxygen.  I mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:, a good deal of companies don't even carry AEDs.  How can you call yourself EMS without an AED.
> 
> Once the IFT is stopped from being mislabeled as EMS, then super excited EMTs will stop being let down by their new super cool saving the world job.


except for the nursing home 911 contracts, where the patient needs to go to the hospital, but they don't want to call 911 so they call the IFT company instead.  

but I agree, 99% of the IFT calls can be handled by a CPR attendant who can help administer oxygen, and can move the patient from the gurney to a bed.

also remember, most private companies are looking to make money, not pay their employees well, especially when the employees are replaceable.  places that aren't focused solely on profit tend to pay much much better ($31 an hour for a per diem medic, 18 an hour for an EMT where I work).


----------



## IrightI (Jan 16, 2012)

AMR Ventura County is a career division.  Dual Medics, excellent county to work in, very good pay, excellent relationship with Ventura County Fire, and going on a 10+yr 911 contract.

Worth looking into, but VERY tough to get on.


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 16, 2012)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> Honestly, IFT shouldn't really be handled by EMS.  It should be more like a medical transport companies.  With CPR certified attendants who can help patients administer oxygen.  I mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:, a good deal of companies don't even carry AEDs.  How can you call yourself EMS without an AED.
> 
> Once the IFT is stopped from being mislabeled as EMS, then super excited EMTs will stop being let down by their new super cool saving the world job.




I blame California for not only not requiring AEDs on ambulances, but in addition requiring companies that want to place AEDs on ambulances to go through a special process to become "authorized AED providers." So if I run a company that hasn't had a patient need an AED in the past year and the state is going to require me to jump through additional hoops to place AEDs on my ambulances, why would I do that?


----------



## Joe (Jan 17, 2012)

IrightI said:


> AMR Ventura County is a career division.  Dual Medics, excellent county to work in, very good pay, excellent relationship with Ventura County Fire, and going on a 10+yr 911 contract.
> 
> Worth looking into, but VERY tough to get on.



honestly, amr is a great place to work. i absolutely love working there. there are a lot of long termers that are in our division and they still seem to like it and they dont talk a bunch of trash about the company. i dont know how long we have had our 911 contract but its as long as i can remember they run 911. fire treats us like people on their team and the pay is decent. plus being able to transfer to just about any state you want to go to is nice too


----------



## CentralCalEMT (Jan 17, 2012)

I think a lot of the reason that LA County EMTs do not get respect is because fire runs all the ALS there. The private ambulance is seen simply as transportation to the hospital while the fire medics do the patient care. With that set up and the enormous egos that the fire department down there has, it is no wonder why even if the fire department is cool with their ambulance company they will never see them on the same level.

However, I think that it is incorrect to classify all of California as a backwards and inefficient EMS system. Central California does EMS much better than their better known and more flashy counterparts to the south and the north.

Some counties such as Kern County, Madera County, Kings County and Fresno County have BLS fire departments and ALS ambulance providers. Fire and EMS work well together and there is a lot of mutual respect between the two because the two roles are clearly defined. Fire does an excellent job of BLS first response; but once the ambulance shows up on scene, they take a step back but are good at assisting the ambulance crew. The paramedic scope of practice is bigger and there is no "mother may I" system. With transport times exceeding an hour in some areas (East Kern/Ridgecrest/Kern River Valley) paramedics get to be paramedics. In addition, there is no radio/phone reception in vast areas of those counties so paramedics can not even call the base hospital in many cases and paramedics must operate off standing orders and protocols on everything up to and including to bilateral chest decompression and needle crics and any other ALS procedures that are almost unheard of in LA County. 

Even counties such as Tulare, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obisbo, which do have some fire department ALS first response, recognize that the paramedic ambulance has priority patient care and the fire department is there to assist only and not run the show. Those areas also have good EMS systems, and less restrictive protocols. I do not personally know anyone working in San Bernardino County but I hear they have a good system too with AMR providing ALS ambulances. 

In conclusion, while Southern California (LA/OC/San Diego) does have a messed up EMS system, it annoys me when people just assume that all EMS in California is messed up. There are still some lesser known counties that do it right.


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 17, 2012)

CentralCalEMT said:


> In conclusion, while Southern California (LA/OC/San Diego) does have a messed up EMS system, it annoys me when people just assume that all EMS in California is messed up. There are still some lesser known counties that do it right.



You mean there's parts of California besides OC/LA/SD and the desert on the way out to Vegas?


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jan 17, 2012)

Wow, that was a really good first post and I agree with not all of California is screwed up.


----------



## Amberlamps916 (Jan 17, 2012)

I do not know how true this is but I've been talking to a couple of LA city fire guys over the last couple weeks who told me that AMR and the city of Los Angeles have been holding preliminary discussions about an ALS takeover. Basically AMR would replace fire in LA. Apparently AMR has shown them how much money they would save if they made the switch. Anyone who has seen fire called to a convalescent home in LA sees how much waste there is usually. I have seen over 6 fire guys just stand around while 2-3 other guys do actual work. It's pretty ridiculous how much money is wasted on that kind of stuff. Anyways, has anyone else heard rumblings of this?


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 17, 2012)

CentralCalEMT said:


> and needle crics



Don't care about California, but just to point out...

This procedure without a jet insufflation device is absolutely pointless.

Even with it, I have my doubts as the the effectivenss of CO2 removale.

If you look at this page:

http://www.facs.org/trauma/publications/airway.pdf

You will notice there is no needle cric procedure without insufflation.

Medical director fail.


----------



## Imacho (Jan 17, 2012)

Where did OP go?


----------



## 46Young (Jan 17, 2012)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> Once the IFT is stopped from being mislabeled as EMS, then super excited EMTs will stop being let down by their new super cool saving the world job.



Taking an EMT course and then working IFT is analagous to completing the police academy then working as nothing more than a meter maid, finishing the fire academy and then doing nothing but checking/flushing hydrants all day and going door to door to check on people's smoke detectors and elderly wellness checks, or a BSN taking a job at a nursing home.


----------



## 46Young (Jan 17, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> I blame California for not only not requiring AEDs on ambulances, but in addition requiring companies that want to place AEDs on ambulances to go through a special process to become "authorized AED providers." So if I run a company that hasn't had a patient need an AED in the past year and the state is going to require me to jump through additional hoops to place AEDs on my ambulances, why would I do that?



So that the state can bang you over the head for more money.


----------



## Sandog (Jan 17, 2012)

46Young said:


> Taking an EMT course and then working IFT is analagous to completing the police academy then working as nothing more than a meter maid, finishing the fire academy and then doing nothing but checking/flushing hydrants all day and going door to door to check on people's smoke detectors and elderly wellness checks, or a BSN taking a job at a nursing home.




Umm, have to disagree, not all transports go as planned. Having someone who is trained to respond to unexpected changes in health condition is vital in IFT. Yes medi-taxi is the norm, but what if a transport takes a bad turn?

Also, the police academy is a bit more involved than an EMT course


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 17, 2012)

Sandog said:


> Umm, have to disagree, not all transports go as planned. Having someone who is trained to respond to unexpected changes in health condition is vital in IFT. Yes medi-taxi is the norm, but what if a transport takes a bad turn?
> 
> Also, the police academy is a bit more involved than an EMT course



But is it worth the cost to simply not call 911?

If there is a turn for the worse, do you think a rusty provider will be much help?

That is like going to a surgeon who hasn't operated in years.


----------



## 46Young (Jan 17, 2012)

Sandog said:


> Umm, have to disagree, not all transports go as planned. Having someone who is trained to respond to unexpected changes in health condition is vital in IFT. Yes medi-taxi is the norm, but what if a transport takes a bad turn?
> 
> Also, the police academy is a bit more involved than an EMT course



I've done IFT in some capacity for as long as I've been in EMS (August will be ten years), and I can't think of any BLS transports that couldn't be handled by someone with a CPR card and an O2 cylinder. If the patient required any kind of monitoring or med administration, it would be an ALS job.


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

I never read yet what makes EMT'S skill worth more compare to what majority of company's pay? A company can easily find/hire new EMT in half a day. Yes there are requirement on training etc but it's on paper. If company want to skip those requirement it's unlikely they will ever get caught. The truth is that emt do not have skills that are so valuable and rare that would make them worth more.


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> There are about 267368458536 ambulance companies in LA County. Alot of them are run by people who are only in it for the money, namely the IFT's. EMT-B in LA county is not a career, it's a stepping stone for something that involves more training and responsibilities. Making about $10 bucks an hour to be a expensive medical taxi is just the way it is. Btw, San Bernardino and Kern county seem to have their **** together, compared to the rest of socal atleast.



When someone get in to business, can you please tell me another reason except money of why they got in to that industry. If someone didn't care about money they would run non-profit organization.


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

I have read all the reply's and feel like I should ask do any of you know how company get IFT patient? Does it cost them anything in order to get that patient? How about being able to transport every month to month instead of another company getting that patient? Think about what i am asking and reply. 

Regarding IFT not being part of EMS. You have a problem here. You need to get state/federal on board. The way system works now been going on for so long that it's unlikely to change anytime soon if ever. 

I wish on day one, in every emt school they would display pay scale. Tell the students the real truth about how much they will make. I got a feeling most would not continue with the class.


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> I have read all the reply's and feel like I should ask do any of you know how company get IFT patient? Does it come them anything in order to get that patient? How about being able to transport them month to month instead of another company getting that patient? Think about what i am asking and reply.
> 
> Regarding IFT not being part of EMS. You have a problem here. You need to get state/federal on board. The way system works now been going on for so long that it's unlikely to change anytime soon if ever.
> 
> I wish on day one, in every emt school they would display pay scale. Tell the students the real truth about how much they will make. I got a feeling most would not continue with the class.



Day one of EMT school here starts out with the dangers of the job and how we could be injured or killed. Then it moves into the pay for EMTs/Medics. Then it goes into how many people won't pass the midterm (normally 50%+ fail out at midterm). Then its just more info on the program. 

We have 1 psych facility that will only use our company for transports in and out. Alot of it depends on what facility the patient is at and what facility the patient is going to. All of the other IFT services in this area primarily do dialysis trips, radiation trips, and doctor appoiments. My company does not do any dialysis and vary rarely radiation trips (in 10 months I've done 2) and doctor appointments (in 10 months I've done 1).


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

firefite said:


> Day one of EMT school here starts out with the dangers of the job and how we could be injured or killed. Then it moves into the pay for EMTs/Medics. Then it goes into how many people won't pass the midterm (normally 50%+ fail out at midterm). Then its just more info on the program.
> 
> We have 1 psych facility that will only use our company for transports in and out. Alot of it depends on what facility the patient is at and what facility the patient is going to. All of the other IFT services in this area primarily do dialysis trips, radiation trips, and doctor appoiments. My company does not do any dialysis and vary rarely radiation trips (in 10 months I've done 2) and doctor appointments (in 10 months I've done 1).



Interesting I wasn't aware that students get informed as it seems a lot of them are shocked when they find out how much we pay. The reason that one psych facility uses you exclusively is because of one thing $$$$$. Same thing is true for other company's


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> Interesting I wasn't aware that students get informed as it seems a lot of them are shocked when they find out how much we pay. The reason that one psych facility uses you exclusively is because of one thing $$$$$. Same thing is true for other company's



I'm 99% sure my company is used for every psych transfer in our valley. We often have to use ALS to take the holds because we are always short on BLS units.

And yes they are made aware of the pay, the danger, the costs, good driving record, and also not being able to be an EMT if they have a felony (they can still take the class if they want).


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

firefite said:


> I'm 99% sure my company is used for every psych transfer in our valley. We often have to use ALS to take the holds because we are always short on BLS units.
> 
> And yes they are made aware of the pay, the danger, the costs, good driving record, and also not being able to be an EMT if they have a felony (they can still take the class if they want).



Let me ask you another way, why do you think you are the only company that does all this transports? You might say contract but I would call it something else as without it someone else would already gotten some of the contracts.


----------



## exodus (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> Let me ask you another way, why do you think you are the only company that does all this transports? You might say contract but I would call it something else as without it someone else would already gotten some of the contracts.



Because we accept self-pay with no payment due at time of service.


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> Let me ask you another way, why do you think you are the only company that does all this transports? You might say contract but I would call it something else as without it someone else would already gotten some of the contracts.



Could be money, could be politics, could be policy, could be alot of reasons. I'm not the one to ask questions for this kind of stuff haha.


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

firefite said:


> Could be money, could be politics, could be policy, could be alot of reasons. I'm not the one to ask questions for this kind of stuff haha.



hahaha as long as you understand what i am talking about is all good


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> I wish on day one, in every emt school they would display pay scale. Tell the students the real truth about how much they will make. I got a feeling most would not continue with the class.



Does this really need to be done by the school?

A 150 hour training course, how much  could one actually expect to earn?

It takes longer than that to learn to cut hair.

http://www.barbercollegeonline.com/college_info.html

_"Student are required and must complete (1500) hours before taking the state exam."_

In some states, that's more than a paramedic too.

It is important to understand history.

EMS was developed in the US to give people a ride to the hospital. 

With rare exception all treatment protocols end in transport or refusal.

Medicare/Medicade pays for transport and milage.

EMS is not recognized in the US as an independant body of specialized knowledge. It is a training.

Just like a mason, or a plumber, or a carpenter.

Before you talk about how much they make, consider there is always a nonunion person (usually a foreigner who accepts a lower standard of living than most first world citizens) who will put his very soul in to producing a quality product for next to nothing.

For the people who say EMTs are valuable, look at the national pay averages. "just in case" is worth just above minimum wage. Basically a fast food worker with a first aid course.

It is not a career to be a basic. It is a job.

Now somebody will talk about how thier agency pays basics grossly above market value. Certainly they do exist. But they are the exception, not the rule, so you are lucky to have those jobs.

There is a reason firefighters become EMT-Bs at least, it is a handful of hours on top of their other certifications. (measured in hours)

A 240 fire class, 20 hours of hazmat, and an EMT cert is still not 1/3 of a barber. Which is why there are so many fire certs. The more you can do, the more you are worth.

a 150 hour course (using the updated guidlines) is still one of, if not the lowest level of anything health care related. 

I know many STNAs who are paid better. You know why?

Because it is more valuable to pay people to do the dirty work (like wiping *** and changing sheets) than it is to have a basic first aid provider "just in case," to do the minimum that will likely not cause harm, with the greatest amount of probability.

Helping your neighbors who cannot afford more is charity. Not a career, even if you are paid a pityful amount to do it.

As for the IFT EMTs, you might actually get paid more, if the state didn't mandate your employer to provide a $90k taxi equipped with stuff you will likely never use.

Unlike a taxi driver, you can't even ask for a tip.

You think it is a joke that many of us say McDs pays better? Look at the salary and benefits for a FT McDs or Starbucks employee.

I come from the generation where an EMT cert was a golden certificate that could ensure I could walk off the job today and be at work tomorrow. But those days are gone. They are not coming back.

Read this website, we constantly talk about how outdated and backwards many EMS treatments are. 

In the last 15 years there has been more learned about medicine than in the entire prior history of man. What % of medicine do you think an EMT-B knows?

Mark my words, if paramedics don't shape up and advance themselves, they will be looking at the same fortune in a few years.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

*furteher more*

EMS instructors who tell you that you need experience as a basic before going on to medic are not looking out for your best interests, they are asuaging their own insecurities.

Nobody claims you should work as a line cook before becomming a chef. 

Don't fall for that BS.


----------



## EMSLaw (Jan 18, 2012)

If you started talking about 150 credit hours, instead of 150 clock hours, the calculus would be very different.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

EMSLaw said:


> If you started talking about 150 credit hours, instead of 150 clock hours, the calculus would be very different.



indeed


----------



## Jon (Jan 18, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> Does this really need to be done by the school?
> 
> A 150 hour training course, how much  could one actually expect to earn?
> 
> ...



Great post. This is the heart of the "EMS 2.0" discussion.  I'm not sure anyone has answers for all of this... But acknowledging the problem is the first step.



Veneficus said:


> EMS instructors who tell you that you need experience as a basic before going on to medic are not looking out for your best interests, they are asuaging their own insecurities.
> 
> Nobody claims you should work as a line cook before becomming a chef.
> 
> Don't fall for that BS.



But don't you need some experience in a kitchen - even your own, before you go to chef's school?

I think it depends on the course. Some courses are built on the assumption you have XXXXX experience, while others are "Zero to Hero" programs. I've seen good medics, and crappy medics, produced both ways.


----------



## looker (Jan 18, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> Does this really need to be done by the school?
> 
> A 150 hour training course, how much  could one actually expect to earn?
> 
> It takes longer than that to learn to cut hair.



Yes it needs to be done by school. When many people think of those people that work in healthcare they think oh they are lucky they are wealthy. That often time is true for specialist doctor but public do not know that They think that those drive ambulance must be paid good because they are carrying for people. Most would be shocked to find out that mcdonalds employee, ups drivers etc are getting paid more compare to emt's. The only real way emt's will get paid more is if industry changes in to being more complicated. For now doing assessment, writing report and taxi transportation do not require enough skills to make wages to go up.


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 18, 2012)

I can teach you good CPR in less than one hour in person. Over the phone or the internet I could never know if you "got it" because of the lack of feedback such as seeing your technique, or watching you text and google your way through the test. 
EMT's, to provide better care as a class and to start being taken seriously, need to stop using shortcuts and certif. mills. States need to use their adult education laws (if any) to shut down "mills".

ANYWAY, LA is acting like the impacted metropolis it has become. There is a lot of country outside the basin, go to some conventions or just a road trip to see, and contemplate getting out of it. (LA would be the finest place in the USA if it could get rid of fifty years of infrastructure and 7/8 of its population...only one major earthquake away).


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

Jon said:


> Great post. This is the heart of the "EMS 2.0" discussion.  I'm not sure anyone has answers for all of this... But acknowledging the problem is the first step..



I am glad to see I am not the only one who sees it. Charge your advertisers more here for exlusive location rights to my posts.

The answers we have discussed ad nausum, Simple. Somebody is going to have to bite the bullet and get a real education. Just like nursing, respiratory, x-ray, etc. (you see what x-ray gets paid? for their actual labor?)

Then they are going to have to lobby to be paid for that knowledge base, just like PAs and NPs did.

They may even go so far as to legally mandate their services, like nursing did.

But like anything worth doing, it will take time, hard work, and sacrifice.

It cannot be a culture of "everyone but me should sacrifice."

Compounding this problem is nobody listens to the people who found the out. I am not exclusive the list of people who wanted to be a career fire/EMS provider that had to move out of the profession.

I may be unique in that I did it for personal satisfaction and out of peer pressure, not the money.

I think ditching the paramilitary uniform would help too. Just my opinion. 




Jon said:


> But don't you need some experience in a kitchen - even your own, before you go to chef's school?
> 
> I think it depends on the course. Some courses are built on the assumption you have XXXXX experience, while others are "Zero to Hero" programs. I've seen good medics, and crappy medics, produced both ways.



Does a pastry chef benefit from making burgers?

My position on this hasn't changed. WHile it is possible to get useful experience and knowledge being an EMT,(I know I did) it was date dependant.

Then an EMT was a rare and mysterious commidity. Paramedics were more rare than leprecauns and highly valued and sought after. Today, it has boiled down to the equation of money. Minimum skill+ maximum saturation= minimum pay.

It is saturated because as looker said, people think healthcare providers are all rich.

Most students entering the school I teach part time at are people changing careers. They are quick to point out EMT and even on to Medic is the quickest way to enter the healthcare profession.

All of the schools I am familiar with, EMT is considered nothing more than the class you have to take before getting to medic class. They don't expect you to even apply for a job as a Basic. Ever.

Unfortunately, spending time as a basic, in addition to being statistically more likely to fail paramedic class at multiple institutions I taught at, seems to impart an attitude they already know it all, that book learnin' isn't important, and all you are going to do is perform the skills laid down in protocol anyway, who you will ultimately drive to the hospital. 

Old wisdom does not apply in a new world. Just as the knowledge of the Dark Ages did not apply to Renaissance, the wisdom of the industrial age does not apply in the information age.

Don't believe me, look at your parents reality vs. yours.

We are at a turning point in history and civilization.

We must adapt to the realities of the age, regardless of how we feel about them.


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 18, 2012)

The has reached the Event Horizon we call "What's Wrong With EMS (and how come we don't get any respect or money?)".






So be it. I'd prefer to discuss how LA's streets have become the next best thing to BLADERUNNER.

Lots of people want to be EMT's. Lots of people want to be commercial pilots too.

Most people can become an EMT. Few people can become a commercial pilot.

Commercial pilots potentially make lots more money than EMT's because....

No. Not just because the training is more stringent. It is because they practice at a higher level. A pilot has to think of/know many things, use math,  know many many regulations, perform documentation like crazy, even learn a foreign language (if they don't speak English). 

EMT-B (originally known as 'EMT-A", for "ambulance") was a basic level certification aimed at teaching the most to the lowest common denominator the fastest it could be disseminated to combat the death rate on American highways. 

THAT is why so many people can be certified as EMT's, and because lax laws and inefficient inspection and examination laws allow substandard mills to operate. Now, an individual graduate may think and act professionally, but the mills push out many more who will either learn it later, or never learn it at all. Many will not achieve adequate employment.

Employers capitalize upon this to get cheap unbenefited labor, same as they are using nursing mill grads, and have used LVN's/LPN's since they were "temporarily" certified during wartime to boost the nursing pool.


----------



## 46Young (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> I have read all the reply's and feel like I should ask do any of you know how company get IFT patient? Does it cost them anything in order to get that patient? How about being able to transport every month to month instead of another company getting that patient? Think about what i am asking and reply.
> 
> Regarding IFT not being part of EMS. You have a problem here. You need to get state/federal on board. The way system works now been going on for so long that it's unlikely to change anytime soon if ever.
> 
> I wish on day one, in every emt school they would display pay scale. Tell the students the real truth about how much they will make. I got a feeling most would not continue with the class.



I know that you have to secure contracts with the various facilities, that you're expected to txp to the facility where the sending MD is affiliated, that a certain on time performance is required. For example, Physicians Transport Service in Virginia was required to place an additional ambulance dedicated to the INOVA Springfield Healthplex from 1000-2200, M-F, to handle discharges and transfers, for no additional compensation. The company does a large amount of their business from this Health System, so they would not risk losing the contract by telling them no on this matter.

Other than that, I'm largely ignorant to the business side of IFT. What can you add to help us understand the financials of running an IFT company?


----------



## 46Young (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> Interesting I wasn't aware that students get informed as it seems a lot of them are shocked when they find out how much we pay.



Where I come from, most people know about the salaries in EMS before enrolling in the class, mostly through word of mouth. 

For example, in NYC, we all know that the privates start at around $10/hr (that hasn't changed in over ten years BTW), that FDNY EMS starts in the upper 20/s/yr, and that the hospitals pay around $15/hr to start.

In VA, the privates start at around $9-$11/hr, and that to make any decent money in EMS you have to join a fire department.

Most people that get into EMS probably knows someone who does EMS, or knows someone who knows someone (or finds this forum). Thw word of mouth about salaries comes from there.


----------



## 46Young (Jan 18, 2012)

looker said:


> Let me ask you another way, why do you think you are the only company that does all this transports? You might say contract but I would call it something else as without it someone else would already gotten some of the contracts.



Licensing/permits/under the table transactions?


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

5=4

(sorry always wanted to say that since talking to you) 




mycrofft said:


> The has reached the Event Horizon we call "What's Wrong With EMS (and how come we don't get any respect or money?)".



Nice to know there are simple problems and simple solutions though. 



mycrofft said:


> It is because they practice at a higher level. A pilot has to think of/know many things, use math,



Damn those people and their math 



mycrofft said:


> EMT-B (originally known as 'EMT-A", for "ambulance") was a basic level certification aimed at teaching the most to the lowest common denominator the fastest it could be disseminated to combat the death rate on American highways.



Well said.

But as I seem to have to keep pointing out, it needs to become much more than the lowest common denominator. EMS is used with great effectiveness to patients and healthcare costs in many nations. It is time the US joins the modern world.

Otherwise, as people once braved great challenges to get there, likewise they will be begging to get out. To a world who will not pay them what they desire.


----------



## 18G (Jan 18, 2012)

Fish said:


> True, we did not have AEDs at the BLS IFT company I worked for.



Sad. Even my son's Dentist office has an AED.


----------



## Joe (Jan 18, 2012)

everywhere had aed's now. the supermarket i was at had one.


----------



## triemal04 (Jan 18, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> Nobody claims you should work as a line cook before becomming a chef.
> 
> Don't fall for that BS.


Yeeeaah...do you know any chef's and/or professional cooks?  Because if you do you should know how patently false that is.  

Nothing against the rest of the post.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

triemal04 said:


> Yeeeaah...do you know any chef's and/or professional cooks?  Because if you do you should know how patently false that is.
> 
> Nothing against the rest of the post.



I was trying to keep the kitchen analogy 

But I do not stipulate do over should 

Lots of Basics do work before medic class, as i am sure a lot of people cook prior to culinary school.

But to the best of my knowledge, nobody "has to" in order to qualify.


----------



## Marinelayer (Jan 18, 2012)

I had the great misfortune of working for a Russian owned IFT company here in LA county, I hated going to work, and everybody else hated going to work.  Group morale was very low.  99% of our job was transporting people to and from dialysis, one after the other, often without a proper break.  Management was disorganized, and had little interest in patient care, community service, and medicine.  Some shifts we went without gloves because we ran out in the supply room, having to swipe whatever we could from a dialysis center. There were a million reasons for me to moan about the working conditions and how under-valued I was, and believe me, I did.  But at some point I got really tired of hearing myself complain, so I quit.

I now work for a 911 provider in both LA and OC.  I took a pay cut, but gained benefits. My hours are better, and I work with people who enjoy their jobs.  My company has strong ties with the community, and I feel good representing the company.  I know that EMT Basics don't get an opportunity to do as much on emergency calls here as opposed to other places around the country, but for me that doesn't matter, not now anyways.  This job is finally challenging and rewarding, and I couldn't have gotten to this point without the willingness to be pro-active about my circumstances.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

Marinelayer said:


> I had the great misfortune of working for a Russian owned IFT company here in LA county, I hated going to work, and everybody else hated going to work.  Group morale was very low.  99% of our job was transporting people to and from dialysis, one after the other, often without a proper break.  Management was disorganized, and had little interest in patient care, community service, and medicine.  Some shifts we went without gloves because we ran out in the supply room, having to swipe whatever we could from a dialysis center. There were a million reasons for me to moan about the working conditions and how under-valued I was, and believe me, I did.



I assure you, this is not exclusive to Russians or any other ethnic group or nationality.

One of my EMS jobs as a basic was working for an American family who figured out there was decent money in IFT. 

They changed their former business to "medical transport."

What was that former business you may wonder?

Trucking.

The only good thing I could say about that family is they are good at it. Ruthless efficency of loads hauled to revenue.

I worked in trucks that had bumpers held together with O2 tubing. Repaired/serviced by an inhouse mechanic who I swear was paid in cheap whiskey every hour.

There were patients and crews getting sick from CO entering the driving and patient compartments. (one of the part time guys worked for a FD and brought in an AIM meter once. He was fired immediately. Not one truck in the fleet didn't register high CO levels inside.) 

On some days there were no batteries for the monitors. The drugs were constantly out of date. They simply called it a BLS rig for the day and any medic working on it was payed as an EMT-B for the day since he couldn't "function" as a medic.

When the place finally lost all contracts from being an embarassment to the facilities they served, you know what they did?

Repainted about 1/4 of their fleet, registered with a different name, and are back in business today. Operating as before. 

They prey on desperate and reject employees. You either want a job or you don't. In a delapitated manufacturing town, jobs are scarce and you take what you can get or you get nothing.

Back on point. 

Any company can act like that. The purpose of business is to make money. As much as possible while spending as little as possible to make it.

IFT is in its basic form. Trucking.
Loads hauled over time and milage.

While some employers will see an economic benefit to providing the most basic level of medical care, public relations, advertising, and employee retention from nice equipment and professional employees, that doesn't always pay dividends, or at least not enough to justify the cost.

Read the words:

Inter-Facility Transport.

Nothing medical is stipulated.

Even in some modern countries, IFT is handled like trucking, because a majority of time, no medical intervention or care is needed. If it is, there is always 999. Which will get you an ambulance with at least 2 paramedics and maybe even a doctor who will skillfully intervene with equipment that makes US EMS look like a kiddy car.

The fact of the situation is thus: People unable to ambulate need hauled around the like cattle in modern countries. Sometimes for no other reason than family unwillingness to let them die in peace.

IFT is, for all intents and purposes, the hauling of people in order to maximize profit doing it.

Companies show compassion only if it economically benefits them to.

Welcome to being an EMT. Not quite the life saving job people expect. 

But true as rain, once the novelty of 911 response wears off, you will find that at the basic level, it really isn't much different.


----------



## Marinelayer (Jan 18, 2012)

Although I don't agree with everything in your post, I think you have a lot of great points.

And you are correct, ethnicity and nationality have nothing to do with it.  My
apologies if I offended anyone.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

Come to think of it...

I wonder if IFT would be better handled by the US Postal Service?

Certainly is cheaper than the BLS rate to send a package weighing 100kg across town.


----------



## Marinelayer (Jan 18, 2012)

Ha!  Well stated


----------



## EMSLaw (Jan 18, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> Come to think of it...
> 
> I wonder if IFT would be better handled by the US Postal Service?
> 
> Certainly is cheaper than the BLS rate to send a package weighing 100kg across town.



I think they only ship packages up to 70 lbs.  Alas.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 18, 2012)

EMSLaw said:


> I think they only ship packages up to 70 lbs.  Alas.



I am sure that can be adjusted to keep the agency afloat.


----------



## FourLoko (Jan 18, 2012)

This thread is depressing


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 18, 2012)

Civil service is for doing the necessary jobs which money must be dissociated from because it doses not pay enough or it is too prone to abuse.


----------



## FourLoko (Jan 18, 2012)

mycrofft said:


> Civil service is for doing the necessary jobs which money must be dissociated from because it doses not pay enough or it is too prone to abuse.



Perhaps but I'd be happy as a LEO just about anywhere.


----------



## Veneficus (Jan 19, 2012)

FourLoko said:


> This thread is depressing



In order to move forward, you must first know where you stand.


----------



## mycrofft (Jan 20, 2012)

And not in a pool of Armor-All on glass.


----------



## Heylove (Nov 18, 2012)

*Thank you*

I have read, and reread this thread over the last few days.  I am testing with an ambulance company tomorrow morning, and then interviewing on Tuesday if I pass.  I often ask myself why the heck I would want to go into this profession, especially after establishing such a wonderful career as a 911 dispatcher/calltaker.  Mind you, I had a close working relationship with this particular ambulance company, and I don't mean to laugh, but they weren't generally the sharpest tools in the shed.  

The absolute honest answer is that there was a deputy that was killed in the line of duty in our county, one that I knew personally, and when I attended his funeral, I learned that he started his career as an EMT.  That was the start of the new direction in my life...I moved to LA and attended my basic EMT school last summer.  

I do see this as a "stepping stone" to bigger and better things.  I've been there...I've been the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the totem pole!  Actually, working for the agency that I came from, as trainees we were told that we were "the scum on the outside of the bottom of the barrel."   I seriously don't mind doing IFT's for a year or so.  Those of us that are in for the long haul with reap wonderful rewards!


----------



## looker (Nov 19, 2012)

Heylove said:


> I have read, and reread this thread over the last few days.  I am testing with an ambulance company tomorrow morning, and then interviewing on Tuesday if I pass.  I often ask myself why the heck I would want to go into this profession, especially after establishing such a wonderful career as a 911 dispatcher/calltaker.  Mind you, I had a close working relationship with this particular ambulance company, and I don't mean to laugh, but they weren't generally the sharpest tools in the shed.
> 
> The absolute honest answer is that there was a deputy that was killed in the line of duty in our county, one that I knew personally, and when I attended his funeral, I learned that he started his career as an EMT.  That was the start of the new direction in my life...I moved to LA and attended my basic EMT school last summer.
> 
> I do see this as a "stepping stone" to bigger and better things.  I've been there...I've been the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the totem pole!  Actually, working for the agency that I came from, as trainees we were told that we were "the scum on the outside of the bottom of the barrel."   I seriously don't mind doing IFT's for a year or so.  Those of us that are in for the long haul with reap wonderful rewards!



I will very truthful, i don't understand your decision to switch from 911 dispatcher to emt especially in LA County. There are so many emt's that you can make more money working at in and out. I understand that it's stepping stone for you but I hope you understand how little you will be paid. Good Luck.


----------



## RocketMedic (Nov 19, 2012)

Move east.


----------



## Heylove (Nov 19, 2012)

*I know!*



looker said:


> I will very truthful, i don't understand your decision to switch from 911 dispatcher to emt especially in LA County. There are so many emt's that you can make more money working at in and out. I understand that it's stepping stone for you but I hope you understand how little you will be paid. Good Luck.



Trust me, I know it's not easy to understand.  I barely understand it, either!  First of all, I am kinda "older" -- and having just moved to LA, I am not very familiar with the geography of this new territory.  I don't feel comfortable with not knowing this area and applying for dispatch jobs.  

The money is practically a non-issue at the moment.  I spend a lot of time volunteering so I'm used to not getting much in return for my time. I think it comes down to if you REALLY love doing something, the money is not important.

Thanks!


----------



## exodus (Nov 19, 2012)

Heylove said:


> Trust me, I know it's not easy to understand.  I barely understand it, either!  First of all, I am kinda "older" -- and having just moved to LA, I am not very familiar with the geography of this new territory.  I don't feel comfortable with not knowing this area and applying for dispatch jobs.
> 
> The money is practically a non-issue at the moment.  I spend a lot of time volunteering so I'm used to not getting much in return for my time. I think it comes down to if you REALLY love doing something, the money is not important.
> 
> Thanks!



If you're worried about the geography, just get a job at a private dispatching.  TBH, if what you want is to be a disaptcher, then get into that position, you're not going to start off dispatching calls, you'll b etaking them, no need to know the area for that.


----------



## Heylove (Apr 24, 2013)

I decided to go back to dispatch


----------



## Chris07 (Apr 25, 2013)

Heylove said:


> I decided to go back to dispatch


If you don't mind me asking...where at? PM if you'd like.


----------



## EMDispatch (Apr 25, 2013)

Heylove said:


> I decided to go back to dispatch



Welcome back to the console, and good luck!


----------



## DrParasite (Apr 25, 2013)

Heylove said:


> I decided to go back to dispatch


hmmmm, work as a 911 dispatcher, get paid ok-decently, government employee, government benefits, and be able to live on your salary and work on an ambulance part time if you wanted to.

or work as an EMT, for $8 an hour (which is considered high in LA), crappy benefits (if any), be treated like crap by the paramedics, fire departments, and nursing homes, and know you can be fired at any moment for doing the right thing.  oh, and typically with incompetent management who think of you as easily replaceable and treated as such.

Good call on going back to dispatch.


----------



## Heylove (Apr 26, 2013)

DrParasite said:


> hmmmm, work as a 911 dispatcher, get paid ok-decently, government employee, government benefits, and be able to live on your salary and work on an ambulance part time if you wanted to.
> 
> or work as an EMT, for $8 an hour (which is considered high in LA), crappy benefits (if any), be treated like crap by the paramedics, fire departments, and nursing homes, and know you can be fired at any moment for doing the right thing.  oh, and typically with incompetent management who think of you as easily replaceable and treated as such.
> 
> Good call on going back to dispatch.



Thanks! I think?   The really funny thing is that I wanted to be an EMT for the experience!  I'm in the process of applying to nursing schools and wanted just to be on a rig for more than just my clinical hours, dangit!  I would have even ~worked on a rig for FREE!~ just for the experience.  One certain company >ahem< was totally retarded (IMHO) so as a result, I've returned back where I loooooooove to be, under the headset.  Thank you, thank you!


----------



## EMDispatch (Apr 26, 2013)

Heylove said:


> Thanks! I think?   The really funny thing is that I wanted to be an EMT for the experience!  I'm in the process of applying to nursing schools and wanted just to be on a rig for more than just my clinical hours, dangit!  I would have even ~worked on a rig for FREE!~ just for the experience.  One certain company >ahem< was totally retarded (IMHO) so as a result, I've returned back where I loooooooove to be, under the headset.  Thank you, thank you!



 You can always shoot for an EMD-N, may not be what you're looking for though.  Seems like  the're a pro using venture.


----------

