# BLS Recruiting



## himynameismj (Sep 3, 2008)

Does any body here have any experiences with recruiting tactics that worked successfully in regards to finding motivated candidates, particularly in a volunteer BLS organization?


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## traumateam1 (Sep 3, 2008)

Well, what my partner and I did for our business was we made a promo video. It involved us doing a few mock calls, a trauma, medical, and a CPR/Defib. After we made that we advertised if anyone wanted to make a difference in their city and all that jazz then when we had enough people, we had an orientation, showed them the video, answered questions, showed them our gear, did a trauma full package for them (a lot of people were fairly new with their tickets, and some hadn't yet gotten one). All this seemed to help. We then asked for resumes as we have a 4 step hiring process. We got in a lot of resumes. So I think what we did helped quite a bit. 
Good luck, and if you need some more info or whatever you can PM me, or just post back here.


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## BossyCow (Sep 3, 2008)

Its becoming an issue nationwide in all volunteer agencies. People have less time, are more career focused, less likely to put volunteerism high on their list. Also, as money gets tight, doing stuff for free gets less fun.

We are currently looking at a recruitment program. First identify who your pool of potential candiates are. Then try to assess what would make your agency attractive to those candidates. For example: in our area, most residents work 40 hours a week about a half hour away. There are few volunteers present in our district during the day, during the week. So, our market of potential volunteers is stay at home parents of school aged children. We are setting up a series of first aid classed targeted at those parents. It brings them into the fire station in a social atmosphere, makes the station a place they are familiar with. Also, being a group event they don't have to deal with the trepidation of walking into a situation alone and facing all those new people and new rules etc. Our hope is that through that, the station becomes less intimidating, the volunteers become friends and the new friends become volunteers. 

We are also exploring social events like a Fireman's Ball. We've done ice cream socials, spaghetti feeds, car washes etc. Anything to get people in the door.


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## NJN (Sep 3, 2008)

The NJ State First Grade (Aid) Council made this video to encourage volunteering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikc6lraWUVA


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## FireResuce48 (Sep 3, 2008)

I think a good way of recruiting is getting out to the public. Talk to the schools. See if they will let you bring a few units to the high schools during lunch or after school ends. Go places. Let it be know that you are a volunteer organization.

Riding on a volunteer apparatus which has volunteer written on the side I always have people ask about money we make. I reply that I'm a volunteer and they are amazed. The public just doesn't know. If you educate them, you in turn get people interested.


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## KEVD18 (Sep 3, 2008)

unfortunately, since you're talking about a volley position, the only thing you can do is increase the public knowledge about the existence of the organization. you dont have a lot to offer. sure, free con ed and what not and the chance to help your fellow man. but you cant pay me. you cant compensate me for equipment or fuel etc. there arent a whole lot of benefits in this economy to give away something i can sell.


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## Jon (Sep 3, 2008)

Pennsylvania came out with:
http://www.rollwithit.com/

a few years back. I'm not sure it's helped. It seems kinda stupid.


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## wxduff (Oct 1, 2008)

My corp is full to the brim this year. We had more HIT's (the first step in our program, see bottom ) then the corps knew what to do with. Many of our shifts have two HIT's a driver, an attendant, and either a Driver In Training or an Attendant in Training. I cleared helper already, and when I come back next semester I'll be AIT, as long as I pass my basic class.

HIT- where you learn how to be the attendent's slave. We teach vitals, basic transport with the stretcher and stairchair, how to start the o2, and doing all the paperwork, etc.

All we do is post posters around school, and tell our friends about the ambulance. Everyone already knows about us anyway because we take care of the drunks. Every week or so you here "So-and-so had to be SAVAC'd last night...."


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## Hastings (Oct 1, 2008)

wxduff said:


> ...attendent's slave. We teach vitals, basic transport with the stretcher and stairchair, how to start the o2, and doing all the paperwork, etc.



I want one of those so badly. How do I order one?


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## wxduff (Oct 1, 2008)

Hastings said:


> I want one of those so badly. How do I order one?



Well, you have to find people that aren't EMT's yet, and get them involved, teach them some basics. Our corp loves to grab EMT-B students, like myself, because A: we want to learn, and B: because we how to do things from class, so you don't have to waste time explaining.

Seriously, as an HIT I went on a couple of good calls, learned some things and implemented some things from class. Now that I've cleared helper, I'm hoping some other HIT's clear. As of right now if I'm on the same shift as an HIT, they are supposed to do the work so they clear, which means I only get to watch...

Actually, when you have a five man shift, it's a little disappointing...

We're waiting for some people to drop out. In the meantime were adding a day shift to our schedule. We previously serviced campus from 1900-2300/2300-0800. This is when a majority of calls go through. Of course our chief, attendents, and drivers, all have pagers and are encouraged to jump calls, as long as they won't miss class. Now were adding 1700-1900, in order to thin out the rest of the shifts.


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## Hastings (Oct 1, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Well, you have to find people that aren't EMT's yet, and get them involved, teach them some basics. Our corp loves to grab EMT-B students, like myself, because A: we want to learn, and B: because we how to do things from class, so you don't have to waste time explaining.
> 
> Seriously, as an HIT I went on a couple of good calls, learned some things and implemented some things from class. Now that I've cleared helper, I'm hoping some other HIT's clear. As of right now if I'm on the same shift as an HIT, they are supposed to do the work so they clear, which means I only get to watch...
> 
> ...



It's really unfortunate HITs aren't at all realistic, because I'd kill for someone to do my paperwork for me. We have to settle for interns up here to do the HIT thing. 

...I missed it. What does HIT stand for? And why is there a level below Basic that isn't MFR?


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## wxduff (Oct 1, 2008)

It's not a state thing. It's a SAVAC thing.

Here's a better run down:

Our Corp has three levels of training:
#1: Helper - Helps with vitals, paperwork, patient transport, preparing O2, etc.
#2: Driver - A helper who drives the ambulance.
#3: Attendant - An EMT Basic who runs the rig when it is in service.

If you are training to achieve a level, then you are that level in training.
Helper in Training (HIT)
Driver in Training (DIT)
Attendant in Training (AIT) - Must have EMT Basic before becoming an AIT

Everyone in the corp must do the FEMA online classes (IS-100 and IS-700) and EMTs must do IS-200 as well.

Everyone in the corp must go to drill a minimum of 4 times a semester, and drill is held every Sunday. We train basic skills at drill, so people can be prepared for class. Examples of drills would be backboarding, lake-shore drill (our campus is on lake ontario), splint training, cpr certification, etc.

Anyway, the point is Helpers (and Helpers in Training) are an important part of our corp because the rank allows them to become familiar with the workings of our corp, supplement your EMT class (if you're in one), and make sure the Attendants always have another set of hands, because you never know when you'll need them.

An example call (totally pulled this out of no-where):
Dispatched to a hand slammed in door in residence hall x. The attendant and two helpers enter the building. The attendant gets someone to point the way to room x, while helper one grabs the gear bag, and the other unloads the stretcher. All three go to the patient location, and the Attendant begins questioning the patient. Helper One takes vitals, while helper gets out supplies. The Attendant fills out his pcr as he questions, then stabilizes the hand. The helpers go in the hall and lower the stretcher and wait for the patient. Patient is loaded and moved down to the ambulance. Helper 1 holds the doors while helper two and the Attendant move the patient outside. Helper 2 then opens the door to the ambulance, gets in, and assists in getting the stretcher into the rig. On route to the hospital, a helper takes another set of vitals, and the attendant ask a few last questions, then, at the hospital the Helpers get the patient out of the ambulance, and a helper and the attendant get the patient in the hospital. The Attendant deals with the hospital while the helpers decontaminate the stretcher, replace the linens, and get the stretcher back into the ambulance. Everyone goes back to base.

As you can see, helpers are helpful?

My attendant loves having two emt students with him. We are always trying to stay one step ahead, and when things go nice and quick, the patient is to the hospital quicker.


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## Hastings (Oct 1, 2008)

You have no paramedics?


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## wxduff (Oct 1, 2008)

Were A BLS Rig... So we don't need them, but we do have a few paramedics who are associate members (alumni, townies, etc.)

If there is an ALS call on campus we act as first responders and the city is the ALS rig. We basically take care of BLS stuff so the city doesn't have to come out to campus all the time. Trust me, the less drunks they have to take care of, the happier they are.

Plus for a college student, A City call costs money, a SAVAC call is free.
Trust me, when you're in college, you do not have the money to pay for an ambulance ride if you hurt yourself at a sports event or whatever.

But yeah, most attendants have their EMT Basic, and we do a fine job at what we do.


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## Flight-LP (Oct 2, 2008)

Yeah, but if you get transported by the city, you get professional ALS level providers, not one EMT and 4 non certifed people. I think you will find that clientele that are educated on that fact would pull out their wallets in a heartbeat. I know I would.

O.k. the driver part I can understand, but an helper, then a helper's helper, then a helper's helper in training?!?!?!?!?!? They have no business on an ambulance. If you truly need an extra set of hands, get the fire department for the manpower issues and another EMT for the medical issues. Let the students go to school, not play on the ambulance. They will get their time when they do clinicals....................

OP, unfortunately you are experiencing the shift in society that has been slow in coming. Bottom line is if you want professionals, you will probably have to pay them. More medics are wising up and realizing that their knowledge and expertise can come with a price. Hopefully it will happen more throughout the nation and we can finally move forward as a profession instead of a side line hobby..............................


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## wxduff (Oct 2, 2008)

Flight, I think your missing a few points...

#1. There are no helpers helpers or helper helpers in training.
#2. There is a maximum of 2 helpers/HIT's per shift.
#3. What does the average ambulance ride cost? $500? That's more then I have in my bank account right now... I'll take a free ride by fully trained and experienced EMT Basic then an expensive ride by trained paramedics any day, as long as I don't need ALS.
#4. Helpers have a place in the ambulance... My fellow Helper and I have helped my EMT a ton so far. He's grateful that were there, and tells us that after every call we've made a smooth operation. And I'm sure our patients were happy that everything went quick and easy. Plus once were through Basic, think of the experience we'll already have. Won't that make us better EMT's?

So flight, if I need a paramedic, I'll get one, but if I don't need one, that's money I'm not spending. And if I'm a patient, and I want to be taken care of fast and efficient, I'm not going to mind that the EMT has 2 assistants to delegate too.


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## JPINFV (Oct 2, 2008)

Jon said:


> Pennsylvania came out with:
> http://www.rollwithit.com/
> 
> a few years back. I'm not sure it's helped. It seems kinda stupid.




Ah, I remember that piece of trash. "No doctors, no hospital..." Strange, why does that look like a hospital hallway that the patient is being wheeled down?


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## JPINFV (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Flight, I think your missing a few points...
> 
> #1. There are no helpers helpers or helper helpers in training.
> #2. There is a maximum of 2 helpers/HIT's per shift.
> ...



/me wonders how he survived working for two years with just him and another EMT-B (mileage varied with quality though) and no help in the back.


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## Sapphyre (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Flight, I think your missing a few points...
> 
> #3. What does the average ambulance ride cost? $500? That's more then I have in my bank account right now... I'll take a free ride by fully trained and experienced EMT Basic then an expensive ride by trained paramedics any day, as long as I don't need ALS.




Um, $500 is our base rate, before milage, for a dual EMT rig.  That is, if all we do is give you a ride...


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## Flight-LP (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Flight, I think your missing a few points...
> 
> #1. There are no helpers helpers or helper helpers in training.
> #2. There is a maximum of 2 helpers/HIT's per shift.
> ...




What does he have that needs delegating? First off, a non certified person shouldn't be touching any patient. Second, if the EMT needs additional help, then two uncertified cronies are of zero value. I don't know what mystic world your EMS program is from, but in the world of reality, EMS is a professional entity that demands the presence of educated and skilled providers. Again, students need to be in school learning, not holding some lazy EMT's hand doing tasks that should be done by the certified provider.


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## BLSBoy (Oct 2, 2008)

himynameismj said:


> Does any body here have any experiences with recruiting tactics that worked successfully in regards to finding motivated candidates, particularly in a volunteer BLS organization?



Drop that V word, insist on high quality applicants who are motivated, pay them like they deserve, have an educational bonus, so they can move up to Paramedic.

First off, that first grade council video made me sick to my stomach. They are a HUGE reason why we in NJ are still being held back in the dark ages. 

We are far removed from the days when it was OK for your neighbor to pick you up, slap a NRB at 15 on you, throw you in the back of the Caddybulance, and go screaming to the hospital. 

All other professions have advanced.....why not us?

Like Flight-LP said, NOT ONE SINGLE un-certified person has any buisness touching a pt, unless they are an EMT student on a clinical, supervised by an EMT or higher.


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## BLSBoy (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Flight, I think your missing a few points...
> 
> #1. There are no helpers helpers or helper helpers in training.
> *If you need a helper, you need help.*
> ...


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## jrm818 (Oct 2, 2008)

Seriously, is this helper in training thing even legal?  What do you do when you find out oops...my helper (being an untrained, unlicensed wannabe) doesn't know how to take a proper set of vitals and this supposedly stable pt. really has a BP of 300/200 and a pulse of 160.  Guess who's on the hook for that screw up?

the EMT is responsible for the assessment, treatment, and even proper movement of the patient - that doesn't mean delegating to untrained cronies.  When I call 911 I expect to be assessed by a qualified medical professional, not some half-trained monkey.  

What if you don't have a helper show up - do you just pull joe-blow off the street to help?  If you're that hard up maybe you need two EMT's in the back in addition to a driver....  

Unless the "helpers" are doing official clinical hours they have no business in an ambulance.  If this is clinical time, it's very strange to have two students at once.

I knew there was a reason I always felt like these campus organizations were kind of hokey....

EDITED TO ADD:

To OP.  Second on the pay your volunteers.  You can still have an on-call service even, just pay per call.  I know a lot of places can't pay to keep people on a salary, but surely you can spare 20 or 30 bucks per EMT per call.


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## wxduff (Oct 2, 2008)

I really wish I knew what the problem is.

"my helper (being an untrained, unlicensed wannabe)"
- I thought I made it clear that these people are trained in what they are asked to do. You don't take vitals on a patient until you can prove to you attendant that you have the ability to do so accurately. They also must go to drill which is additional training.

And you keep forgetting that were a BLS rig. We don't get calls to those sort of things, and if we arrive on scene to find someone pushing a heart rate like that, the EMT will be calling for ALS right away...

The college rigs aren't a joke. I feel insulted. We do a great volunteer service to our campus communities. And we were the first in the nation to do this too. Don't you think we have a system that works down by now?

I'll get back to this later, I have to go to EMT class.


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## jrm818 (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> I really wish I knew what the problem is.
> 
> "my helper (being an untrained, unlicensed wannabe)"
> - I thought I made it clear that these people are trained in what they are asked to do. You don't take vitals on a patient until you can prove to you attendant that you have the ability to do so accurately. They also must go to drill which is additional training.
> ...



*It sounds like you'd have more to be proud of if you had been first to abandon your system.  I'm sure your system works for you as students who want to play EMT, but the issue is if it works for your patients.  Sorry, but EMT is a very very minimum standard as it is, no one under EMT should be responsible for any aspect of patient care. 
*


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## BLSBoy (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> The college rigs aren't a joke. I feel insulted. We do a great volunteer service to our campus communities. And we were the first in the nation to do this too. Don't you think we have a system that works down by now?


 
Nope. Look at Jersey. One of the oldest EMS systems in America. They have messed it up from the start, and continue to do so. 

Old does not mean good.


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## JPINFV (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> And you keep forgetting that were a BLS rig. We don't get calls to those sort of things, and if we arrive on scene to find someone pushing a heart rate like that, the EMT will be calling for ALS right away...



Yep... and I was never, ever called to transport a critical patient when I was working on a BLS interfacility transport unit.


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## wxduff (Oct 2, 2008)

jrm818 said:


> *It sounds like you'd have more to be proud of if you had been first to abandon your system.  I'm sure your system works for you as students who want to play EMT, but the issue is if it works for your patients.  Sorry, but EMT is a very very minimum standard as it is, no one under EMT should be responsible for any aspect of patient care.
> *





jrm818 said:


> Seriously, is this helper in training thing even legal?  What do you do when you find out oops...my helper (being an untrained, unlicensed wannabe) doesn't know how to take a proper set of vitals and this supposedly stable pt. really has a BP of 300/200 and a pulse of 160.  Guess who's on the hook for that screw up?
> 
> the EMT is responsible for the assessment, treatment, and even proper movement of the patient - that doesn't mean delegating to untrained cronies.  When I call 911 I expect to be assessed by a qualified medical professional, not some half-trained monkey.
> 
> ...



Let's correct some insults:
I'm not a half trained monkey, don't you dare insult me like that. I'm an eagle scout with tons of first aid training, I'm AHA CPR and AED Certified, I'm in EMT Class, and I've been to every drill.

If you going to call me a wannabe for wanting to be an EMT, and doing as much learning as possible now, as well as using the skills I do have to help my fellow student, then thank you. That's what I "wannabe."

I'm not playing EMT, I'm assisting my EMT in providing quick quality medical care to his/her patient, so that their medical treatment is quick and as painless as possible.

Do you think we'd pull anyone off the street. I guess you missed me explaining that we have requirements for all members. Or you're having more fun bashing then providing a real argument. 

And if you get in an accident and break you're neck jrm818, make sure you tell the CFR's that you'd rather not have them give you oxygen and do c-spine, because they're not good enough for you.


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## BLSBoy (Oct 2, 2008)

wxduff said:


> Let's correct some insults:
> I'm not a half trained monkey, don't you dare insult me like that. I'm an eagle scout with tons of first aid training, I'm AHA CPR and AED Certified, I'm in EMT Class, and I've been to every drill.



Oh puuulease. 

Oh, and AHA does not certify anymore, due to liability concerns of bumblefracks not doing it right. 

This thread just got interesting.... EMT student vs. EMT(s) and Paramedic(s)

I got the popcorn, whos bringin the beer?B)


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## KEVD18 (Oct 2, 2008)

beer....check!

what does being an eagle scout have to do with anything? i was in the scouts too(life). the bsa first aid course is a band aid course, nothing more. i know, i have taught it.

"helpers" are unlicensed trainees without official training. they have no business doing anything out side of carrying equipment, opening the trucks doors and other unlicensed tasks. maybe, maybe hand me something out of the bag etc but under no circumstances do they belong in a patient care role. their existence in that capacity wouldnt be just dandy. when they step out, it becomes a legal liability.

did you really just try to trot out aha bcls certs as if they actually mattered? well my oh my you can use an aed! so can the bagger at the supermarket. 

you're fighting an uphill battle here chief. while i admire you desire to get into the business, im appalled that you work in a system that allows you treat patients before you're properly trained. come back when you've got your emt ticket and you'll do just dandy.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 2, 2008)

Play nice or become the focus of my complete and undivided attention!


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## MedicPrincess (Oct 2, 2008)

*You all need to step back a moment, take a deep breath, and bring that back in line with what the thread is about.  This WILL NOT turn into a Student vs. EMT/Medic fight.  *


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## KEVD18 (Oct 2, 2008)

oh no, two moderators. scary......


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## BLSBoy (Oct 2, 2008)

I hear saber rattling....


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## Jon (Oct 2, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> beer....check!
> 
> what does being an eagle scout have to do with anything? i was in the scouts too(life). the bsa first aid course is a band aid course, nothing more. i know, i have taught it.


Kev,

Actually... between First Aid, Emergency Preparedness, and Medicine... I learned more medical history than in EMT school. And BSA's first aid stuff isn't that different from EMT-B training. In fact... I KNOW how to use board splints... and I use them, when needed. (and I know other EMT's who don't.. because EMT school glosses by it).

However... it isn't a cert. You need an EMT cert (at least some form of recognized First Responder cert) before you start treating patients on your own.

WXDuff,
My concern with your Squad's apparent operational policies NOT WITH YOU!

I run with a volunteer squad that often rolls with 4-person BLS crews. Add an ALS responder, perhaps with a student... and police.. and we've got 7 people to treat one patient... it becomes ridiculous. If our BLS crew rolled with 5 or 6... where would I put a patient?


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 2, 2008)

Jon said:


> I run with a volunteer squad that often rolls with 4-person BLS crews. Add an ALS responder, perhaps with a student... and police.. and we've got 7 people to treat one patient... it becomes ridiculous. If our BLS crew rolled with 5 or 6... where would I put a patient?



/cue clown music

B&BA - Barnum & Bailey Ambulance


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## JPINFV (Oct 2, 2008)

It's an ambulance, not a clown car.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 2, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> It's an ambulance, not a clown car.



real ambulances have properly educated and certified practitioners


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## triemal04 (Oct 2, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> real ambulances have properly educated and certified practitioners


You'd think that...but what does it say when someone compares a Boy Scout's first aid course with an EMT course?


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## Flight-LP (Oct 3, 2008)

It says we need to seriously clean house, especially in New England where there is still the belief that this substandard level of care is remotely acceptable. I am so tired of hearing about tradition and that "we were the first blah blah blah". This is a prime reason why this industry has gone no where in 40 years. Lets move on, there is really no point continueing this debate as the OP's limited vision will only see how great his system is despite other professionals knowing that is a complete liability and joke to the industry.

Now to think of a subject so raw that we can get all of the CL's involved in one thread. Hmmmmmm..........................................................................................


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## KEVD18 (Oct 3, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> It says we need to seriously clean house, especially in New England where there is still the belief that this substandard level of care is remotely acceptable. I am so tired of hearing about tradition and that "we were the first blah blah blah". This is a prime reason why this industry has gone no where in 40 years. Lets move on, there is really no point continueing this debate as the OP's limited vision will only see how great his system is despite other professionals knowing that is a complete liability and joke to the industry.
> 
> Now to think of a subject so raw that we can get all of the CL's involved in one thread. Hmmmmmm..........................................................................................



hey now, we're far from the worst ems crews in the country. there are still towns out there using a _*first aid squad*_ as the primary ems agency that might be able to get medics from three counties away if they arent too drunk.

we may not be riding right at the cutting edge, but it can get(and is) much worse.....


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## JPINFV (Oct 3, 2008)

It means that we aren't expecting enough out of EMT-Basics. Yes, many of the "skills" that EMT-Bs hold so near and dear to their hearts are taught to boy scouts.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 3, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> Now to think of a subject so raw that we can get all of the CL's involved in one thread. Hmmmmmm..........................................................................................



We have a whole forum devoted to that...we just don't share it.


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## Flight-LP (Oct 3, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> hey now, we're far from the worst ems crews in the country. there are still towns out there using a _*first aid squad*_ as the primary ems agency that might be able to get medics from three counties away if they arent too drunk.
> 
> we may not be riding right at the cutting edge, but it can get(and is) much worse.....



I was really torn on how to make that statement. I hated to group all of New England together, but specifically stating that New York and New Jersey are the root cause of bass ackwards EMS may have offended some...........................(D@mn, did it again!)


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## Flight-LP (Oct 3, 2008)

ffemt8978 said:


> We have a whole forum devoted to that...we just don't share it.



I'm just glad that my name can be a part of it


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 3, 2008)

One has noticed I have stayed out of this mess. I personally believe EMS in most of the areas discussed is their form of population control. They deserve what they get if they want to continue this type of care. I would believe placing EMS back into the funeral home would be better. At least embalmers and those with funeral science have detailed anatomy training but again; one could not see the jump suits and clown mentality.

What upsets me the most is the public places their trust into organizations to provide the best care possible. The public is being *lied* to and *misinformed *that what they receive is quality care and the best is being delivered when in reality those that do this know they are *lying* to them.  Yet, their self egos supersede the desire of doing what is right. Yup, true heroes...just ask them. 

Sorry, patients do not know when ALS (Paramedics) is needed or not. It does not matter if it is a college student, grandma or the bum on the street if there was an call for an EMS unit, then a Paramedic should be the one to evaluate the patient. *PERIOD.* Sorry, your week-end first aid classes does not nor it should it ever be considered to be enough to give the authority or presumption of knowledge, you know when a Paramedic is needed or not. Again, those speaking and making determination for others when they are not qualified or should be allowed too. Shame no hungry attorneys have not explored this area yet...

The excuses (and that is what it is) of no one or we would have to do without, is finally running out as the volume increases and volunteerism is dying (thank God!). 
I do wish those areas would come up to the 20th century mark in providing EMS. Shameful that a television show over 30 years old demonstrates prehospital care more advanced than that provided in a lot of U.S. communities. 

EMS in many areas of U.S. is not even a joke, it is just dangerous. Unfortunately, we attempt to blame the citizens but in reality it is those involved that are to blame.

R/r911


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## KEVD18 (Oct 3, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> I was really torn on how to make that statement. I hated to group all of New England together, but specifically stating that New York and New Jersey are the root cause of bass ackwards EMS may have offended some...........................(D@mn, did it again!)



im ok with that.


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