# "Mercedes" Ambulances Sending the Wrong Message?



## MMiz (Mar 23, 2015)

A local municipal service just received their Mercedes-Benz Sprinter ambulances made by Demers.  They look impressive.

In a county with a per capita money income of less than $30,000 a year, does the blingtastic Mercedes badge on the front of the ambulance send the wrong message?


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## OnceAnEMT (Mar 23, 2015)

I've seen eastern-hempisphere systems with them, I believe my thinking is coming from the show Paramedics based in Australia. So its a thing. That said, I think it depends on the vehicle. Mercedes is a well known luxury brand, yes, but how does its fleet prices rank with Fords and GMCs here in the states (or Fords over there)? I don't think they will have automatic running boards with LED lit wheel wells, cooled cup holders, and 16 way automatic seats. 

Anyone seen one of these state side?


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## Tigger (Mar 23, 2015)

The Mercedes Sprinter is similar in price point to other cutaway vans. It is also much more fuel efficient with more safety features. Mercedes is also building a plant to produce them domestically. 

For awhile they were sold with Dodge and Freightliner badges, and apparently the Freighliner badged models will become more prevalent. Would a Freightliner badge be ideal? Probably but I doubt many will notice. It might have something to do with Demers being Canadian but I thought the Freightliners were sold there too.


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## Jim37F (Mar 23, 2015)

Lots of companies around here are buying Sprinter vans, some with the Dodge markings, a lot with the Mercedes markings...all I know is that IMO they are quite frankly a little fugly looking, narrow and tall like a stiff breeze would blow them over. Plus putting a straight light bar on the curved front just means it just sticks out and looks out of place leaving the whole aesthetics slightly off putting to me...but I'm just weird like that lol


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## NomadicMedic (Mar 23, 2015)

They're comfy to ride in though.


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## Underoath87 (Mar 23, 2015)

Jim37F said:


> Lots of companies around here are buying Sprinter vans, some with the Dodge markings, a lot with the Mercedes markings...all I know is that IMO they are quite frankly a little fugly looking, narrow and tall like a stiff breeze would blow them over. Plus putting a straight light bar on the curved front just means it just sticks out and looks out of place leaving the whole aesthetics slightly off putting to me...but I'm just weird like that lol




It's just for work, not picking up chicks...


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## OnceAnEMT (Mar 23, 2015)

Underoath87 said:


> It's just for work, not picking up chicks...



The daughter has a choice. Take her POV, or jump in the front seat. All we want is for her to choose wisely.


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## Tigger (Mar 23, 2015)

Jim37F said:


> Lots of companies around here are buying Sprinter vans, some with the Dodge markings, a lot with the Mercedes markings...all I know is that IMO they are quite frankly a little fugly looking, narrow and tall like a stiff breeze would blow them over. Plus putting a straight light bar on the curved front just means it just sticks out and looks out of place leaving the whole aesthetics slightly off putting to me...but I'm just weird like that lol



They actually have very similar dimensions to most Type IIs minus having a large (and heavy) fiberglass topper mounted to the roof...


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## chaz90 (Mar 23, 2015)

I saw them used as a few Colorado ambulances and worked a few shifts in one. Ours had the Mercedes markings and didn't bring too many questions. The local newspaper ran a story when they came out that explained the cost savings despite the "expensive" badge.


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## cprted (Mar 24, 2015)

We have a few here.  I believe the sticker price was in the same ballpark as the other offerings from Demers with a ford or chevy chassis and the maintenance costs were projected to be cheaper.


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## COmedic17 (Mar 24, 2015)

We have sprinters for county cars to get though narrow passages. I'm not a fan. Throw a cardiac arrest and a couple Fire riders in the back and it's an extremely uncomfortable tight fit.


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## Kevinf (Mar 24, 2015)

We had one for awhile, their diesel engine was amazing; quiet, torquey, started up like a gas engine in the cold. Lots of leg room up front was a plus, but like many (most?) vanbulances the back was iffy.

A different perspective is this: In America a Mercedes is a luxury vehicle, in Europe it's a taxi


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## Smitty213 (Mar 24, 2015)

Well the Southerntier of NY isn't exactly known for its affluence, but one of the transport agencies that we work with down there has recently begun changing most of their regular 911/IFT fleet over to these things. Backs were ok, theres had a pretty neat European design thing going on, but most of there guis and gals love em; besides what @Kevinf said, I guess they're built like tanks and are WAY more reliable than the standard Ford/GM rigs.


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## Kevinf (Mar 24, 2015)

I despise Ford's E-350 turbodiesel motor. It may be as durable as a tank, but man does it make a ruckus... and take up all the leg room. Whomever designed that cabin needs to be forced to sit at a desk with that motor bolted right under it for the rest of their career. I eagerly await the day when EV ambulances are commonplace. I've had my fill of engine noise and diesel fumes! Screw Mercedes rigs, give me Tesla rigs!


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## RefriedEMT (Mar 24, 2015)

There was one in my company's fleet in olympia, funny thing is most of the emts did not like it due to the smaller amount of space in the back although I thought they were okay since I am not a big person and rarely had more than just myself and one PT in the back with me.


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## DrParasite (Mar 27, 2015)

Durham County EMS just ordered a bunch of them..... per my last discussion with their Chief of Finance & Administration, they were about the same price as a non-Mercedes one, with a lot of nice little amenities.


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## RedAirplane (Apr 9, 2015)

In Europe, Mercedes Benz is partially a luxury brand, but is also well know for rugged and competitive buses, taxis, and trucks.


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## Bullets (Apr 21, 2015)

Cant specifically speak to the sprinters, but we have a rescue truck built on a two person conventional chassis that is badged as a "Freightliner" but when you pop the hood, a huge Mercedes motor sits there. The bonnet has a little "Powered by Mercedes-Benz" sticker on the side and i have to say the truck pulls a ton of weight and we never have problems with it. Its our mechanics favorite truck to work on. He says its very neat and logical


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## TransportJockey (Apr 21, 2015)

When i worked for AMR we had a Sprinter mod (type 3) that was badged as a Mercedes.  I loved the thing except it was a little sluggish on acceleration from a stop. I would gladly ride in a fleet of Sprinters


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## 281mustang (Apr 22, 2015)

We use Mercedes Sprinters were I work. I'm not a fan, I have to put my duffle bag on the dash because there is zero storage space up front and the seats practically don't recline. Not to mention the fact that they look ridiculous, driving around town in those things is practically a form of birth control.  

The one positive thing is that I'm 6' tall and can walk around in the back while standing up.


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## CANMAN (Apr 22, 2015)

This is what you call and ugly ambulance:   I have worked in a actual Sprinter and was not a fan at all. Although it road nice with bumpy roads, I felt the back and forth swaying of the unit due to the height offset the nice ride. Standing room is nice, but the bench and airway seat area's have next to no room at all. I also agree the front is uncomfortable as well. I will take an F450 or 550 truck front with a box anyday.


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## Tigger (Apr 22, 2015)

Incidentally most ford E-350 Type 2 conversions have a height of around 100" and the Sprinters are at 103," and they are not nearly as top heavy as a result of a not having the fiberglass topper.


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## AcadianExplorer1910 (Aug 23, 2015)

DEmedic said:


> They're comfy to ride in though.


oh yes they are hehe! Acadian has those now (i rode in the mercedez Sprinter now i just gotta try the Dodge)


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## DPM (Aug 24, 2015)

Tigger said:


> Incidentally most ford E-350 Type 2 conversions have a height of around 100" and the Sprinters are at 103," and they are not nearly as top heavy as a result of a not having the fiberglass topper.



I believe you here, but it certainly "felt" different. They felt very top heavy to me when I used to drive them.

There was enough room in the back to stand (I'm 5'8") but I felt that the bench was super close to the gurney. Also, the way that the latches on the bench stuck out meant they were often broken off by people's legs and shins. I also felt that there wasn't a lot of cabinet space or equipment storage. That being said, I think that's an issue with all type II's and not just the sprinter.


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## Honeybadger (Sep 2, 2015)

Amr in seattle has a fleet of type 2 sprinters and our old fleet of ford's is mostly type 2 with type 3 for bariatric and cct duties. We have gas powered boxes and diesels, and one lone chevy duramax type 3.

I hate the sprinters in a lot of ways. Gutless engines with awful turbo lag (we opted for the top of the spec v6 diesel) and 5 speed auto slush boxes that can never decide on a gear. They're grumbly and slow, and just don't feel appropriate as an ambulance. Up in the mountains, when we gun it, the 7.3 fords just walk away like it was nothing from 55-70. On a straight, the healthier of our 250-500k mile fords are neck and neck. The only benefit the sprinter has is a silent idle, making for more relaxing posting, but I prefer engine off anyways.

Ride quality is hands down better in a Ford e series (and hopefully the new transit) the sprinters have unbelievably bouncy rides, partly because they are made to haul a load, and with more weight in the back, the Ford irons out bumps better.

Turn circle in the sprinters is incredible. City driving through traffic, I do appreciate that. But paired with the asthmatic engine and slow transmission, it does drag the overall performance down.

Brakes are wooden and numb in the sprinters. The ford is mushy, but linear and predictable. Steering is bad in both, with a slight edge to the sprinter, though the driving position takes away from the slightly better feel

Space in the sprinters is impressive. I can stand up and i'm nearly 6'5 with boots on. And the bench seat backrest we went for has a 4 point harness belt that is very comfortable. I won't speak to interior layouts as they're all different, but I do not feel like Leader (our brand) did a very high quality job. Surfaces and fit and finish feel cheap and lacking.

The minivan side door is lovely too, but they have a flaw wherein if they don't close completely, when you set off, the auto locks engage, and the door jams HARD, becoming nearly impossible to open.

Auto locks suck. You can't unlock or lock the back doors if the engine is running with the key, meaning you have to shut down the engine at every scene or climb back into the cab and use the door locks from there. No problems like this with the ford, making it a much better vehicle for accident scenes.

Compared to old 06 fords, sprinter interior wins. So much more legroom and an actual glovebox. Newer fords are comparable.

Sprinters average 18 to 20mpg. Fords get 14ish. Considering 60% of our fuel is spent idling, it's irrelevant.

And the big elephant in the room. Reliability. The sprinters are nightmares, both in terms of regular breakdowns and cost of maintenance. The Mercedes brand urea injection fluid alone costs us about $300 an oil change, they chew through headlight bulbs, and there is an inherent design flaw. The egr system stores the soot in a tank, which after a few minutes at 60mph, is dumped. Our engines often never break 45mph, often idling for 8 or 10 hours straight. This causes the system to foul, which heats up the sensor, overheats the wiring, and then melts the wiring harnesses. My old unit was out of service for three weeks of every month, for nearly five months. under 65k miles. Most of our sprinters are between 60 and 160k miles and are all regularly breaking down. Our fords are all 250 minimum, and rarely ever break

I moved out to the Eastside for more proper ems work (seattle fire never lets you do any patient care) and out here we get old fords with strobe bars instead of the fancy led bars of the mercs and a quarter million miles. Apart from our maintenence shop being nickel and dimed so hard they can't fix basic wear items like a screeching idler belt pully, our ford has never had a problem in a year now beyond a shift lever breaking once.

Overall, I like a twinkie for threading through traffic, but I'd prefer a 1 or 3 for the "proper ambulance" look. And it really bothers me for some reason that it doesn't say "AMBULANCE" anywhere on our rigs at amr.

The only type of rig I have not driven is a medium duty.


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## DesertMedic66 (Sep 2, 2015)

Honeybadger said:


> And it really bothers me for some reason that it doesn't say "AMBULANCE" anywhere on our rigs at amr.
> 
> The only type of rig I have not driven is a medium duty.


Does it really need to say ambulance? I've never had anyone mistake my ambulance for anything else. 

Some of ours say some of our BLS units say ambulance or nothing written. Our ALS either say Paramedic Unit or nothing written


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## Honeybadger (Sep 2, 2015)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Does it really need to say ambulance? I've never had anyone mistake my ambulance for anything else.
> 
> Some of ours say some of our BLS units say ambulance or nothing written. Our ALS either say Paramedic Unit or nothing written



It's weird and irrelevant but for some reason it bothers me


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## Clare (Sep 3, 2015)

The entire fleet is Mercedes.  This is the latest variant.  It's a custom module on a Sprinter chassis.  Great piece of kit to work in.


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## Honeybadger (Sep 3, 2015)

That looks awesome, Clare. I feel like a minimod like that would make the sprinter feel much more like an ambulance, while keeping the body dimensions nice and tight. One thing I don't like, aesthetically, is the tiny steel wheels that most sprinters have. Our rigs are all 2500's and opted for the very nice looking 17 inch alloy rims which look very nice and give us a bit of extra ground clearance and a slightly improved ride on Seattle's paved-over goat paths laid down by the Roman Legion. That said, I'd guess that your mini mods are all duallies in the rear, and I think that the ugly steelies are the only option for spare-wheel fitment purposes. I like the high visibility look of the UK rigs.

Our mainstay of the fleet is the good old trauma twinkie with the engine from a big manly tractor






And our sprinters





And then we have this Monstrosity. Our retarded manager wanted to make the lights all green and blue. Thank god blue is illegal in WA state. As it is, people see it running code and think that there's just a very unusually aggressive parade going on.


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## DPM (Sep 4, 2015)

Honeybadger said:


> I hate the sprinters in a lot of ways. Gutless engines with awful turbo lag (we opted for the top of the spec v6 diesel) and 5 speed auto slush boxes that can never decide on a gear. They're grumbly and slow, and just don't feel appropriate as an ambulance....
> 
> ...But paired with the asthmatic engine and slow transmission...
> 
> ...Space in the sprinters is impressive. I can stand up and i'm nearly 6'5 with boots on. And the bench seat backrest we went for has a 4 point harness belt that is very comfortable. I won't speak to interior layouts as they're all different, but I do not feel like Leader (our brand) did a very high quality job. Surfaces and fit and finish feel cheap and lacking.



All of these things too. Nice and tall in the back, but it's a narrow vehicle with no external compartments, and no amount of clever design is going to get you any more space back there. 

And I'd forgotten about the speed!! Slooooow. Asthmatic is an excellent description. 

Plus, this don't even really look like ambulances. My GF saw one from my old service and said it looked like an ice cream truck. 

DPM


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## TransportJockey (Sep 4, 2015)

Why do you need external compartments? And they do make box sprinters. Ran in one in NM and loved the type III sprinters. Plus those have external companrtments.


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## Tigger (Sep 4, 2015)

TransportJockey said:


> Why do you need external compartments? And they do make box sprinters. Ran in one in NM and loved the type III sprinters. Plus those have external companrtments.


I'm not sure we could fit our extraneous equipment into something without exterior compartments. Wilderness backpack, two ATV helmets, two sets of Level C PPE, vac mattress, inflatable car seat, some basic tools, tire chains, and a spare tire. Takes up some space, for sure. Though in the city a lot of that would not be necessary.


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## DPM (Sep 4, 2015)

External compartments mean that fire re-stock, back boards etc aren't taking up the already space inside. 

I have no experience with the MOD sprinter,  but I can only imagine that the extra weight makes the engine issues worse.


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## Clare (Sep 4, 2015)

We have two exterior doors - one is for access and the other is for the equipment cache where the response kit, LP15, portable oxygen, combi carrier, Mark 11 and stair chair are stored.  On the drivers side there is an external door for access to the compartment where the bulk oxygen is stored.


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## Honeybadger (Sep 4, 2015)

TransportJockey said:


> Why do you need external compartments? And they do make box sprinters. Ran in one in NM and loved the type III sprinters. Plus those have external companrtments.



External compartments for things like your stair chair, backboards,  clamshells, and main o2 tanks makes for a much easier to organize, spacious, and tidy interior. I'm curious to see how the new ford transits with the 3.2 five cylinder diesel do. But we may go for the ecoboost twin turbo v6 as well, which would absolutely perk up the speed problem these euro vans have.


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## Crash Course (Sep 7, 2015)

Honeybadger said:


> ...Auto locks suck. You can't unlock or lock the back doors if the engine is running with the key, meaning you have to shut down the engine at every scene or climb back into the cab and use the door locks from there. No problems like this with the ford, making it a much better vehicle for accident scenes.
> 
> Compared to old 06 fords, sprinter interior wins. So much more legroom and an actual glovebox. Newer fords are comparable.
> ...



Lots of valid points, although I will say that out new FORDs DO have auto lock as well. It is a pain because we are getting locked out, and then have to walk around to the driver's side to regain access. I took one to the Ford dealership and they said they could disable it next time it went in the shop, but also said it was a safety feature. I explained why it was not a good feature for emergecy services and they agreed.

Now my boss on the other hand can't seem to care enough though to have the work followed through with. I guess it doesn't seem like a very big deal from the POV of an office chair.

Anyways, all that is to say that I'm sure that the dealership could address the auto locks in the merc too.  I can't see these getting very popular in areas that dont have good access to merc dealerships for maintenace - those who  hate them should always have somewhere to go. 

I did sit in a Ford transit generic model, the lack of leg roominess is actually very disapointing considering the size of the vehicle.


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## EBMEMT (Sep 7, 2015)

@Honeybadger: $300 per oil change for the ures injection fluid was a shocker. A post on truth about cars had a similar complaint but the comments shed some light.  Apparently, Mercedes charges dealers $6 gallon and they mark it up to $32 plus labor.  But you can get DEF from the pump at a truck stop for around $2.79 gallon.  May need an adapter, such as a cut up addblue bottle.  And  volkswagon dealers will sell you a 2.5gallon bottle of afdblue for $13.50, if you want to carry extra onboard in case you run dry.


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## Jim37F (Sep 7, 2015)

The other day at work we were talking about our new ambulance coming in, and one of the captains at station was apparently on the apparatus selection committee. He said the department looked at Sprinters (small, maneuverable, fuel efficient, etc.) But found when spec'ing the van out, apparently after putting all the equipment and gear we carry, the van load rating only allowed for an extra 750 lbs, and that's before adding patient and crew. I have no way to verify other than "that's what the captain said" though lol


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## Crash Course (Sep 7, 2015)

I think it is believable though. Didn't Ornge fail to notice a similar problem with their air ambulances?  The medical interior plus all the equipment, supplies, and people must add up fast!


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