# MVA witnessed with Pt on your truck?



## Chase.Barnett (Jul 31, 2011)

For my own curiosity, and considering the fact that I keep getting conflicting responses from people I have asked...

You are licensed and working in Texas and you are doing a long distance transport with a patient in the back with your partner and you witness a MVA in front of you, legally, what are you to do?

I fully understand that without a patient, you are to stop and render aid. But what if you already have a patient? Keep going and call the local authorities and continue? Or stop, your partner stays in the back with your patient, and you get out and render aid?


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## HotelCo (Jul 31, 2011)

Chase.Barnett said:


> For my own curiosity, and considering the fact that I keep getting conflicting responses from people I have asked...
> 
> You are licensed and working in Texas and you are doing a long distance transport with a patient in the back with your partner and you witness a MVA in front of you, legally, what are you to do?
> 
> I fully understand that without a patient, you are to stop and render aid. But what if you already have a patient? Keep going and call the local authorities and continue? Or stop, your partner stays in the back with your patient, and you get out and render aid?



Legally?

Ask a lawyer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 31, 2011)

Your company should have a policy about this. As for mine we don't stop. We either call 911 if it is outside our response area and keep driving and possibly say "help is on the way". If it is inside our response area then we call dispatch so they can get the help to the accident.


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## guttruck (Jul 31, 2011)

same as if we are toned out to a fire and see an MVA, ect. we do not stop due to our current assignment is to that fire or w/e. It really suck because I have seen it.


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## Chimpie (Jul 31, 2011)

Chase.Barnett said:


> You are licensed and working in Texas and you are doing a long distance transport with a patient in the back with your partner and you witness a MVA in front of you, legally, what are you to do?





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Ask your supervisor, field training officer and/or company lawyer.


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## DrParasite (Jul 31, 2011)

firefite said:


> As for mine we don't stop. We either call 911 if it is outside our response area and keep driving and possibly say "help is on the way".


and





guttruck said:


> same as if we are toned out to a fire and see an MVA, ect. we do not stop due to our current assignment is to that fire or w/e. It really suck because I have seen it.


I hope you have this policy is in writing.

it is a Public Relationship nightmare to keep going when you witness an emergency right in front of you and you do absolutely nothing.  I can see the headlines now: "Massive MVA occurs in front of fire truck, who just keep on driving by."

most places that I am familiar with require you to stop, even if you have a patient, and call 911/the local authority who handles EMS.  it doesn't matter if you are going to a cardiac arrest, if you get flagged down, you get flagged down, and the closest ambulance takes your place on the original call.

but always follow your department or agency's written protocol on how to handle this type of situation


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## DesertMedic66 (Jul 31, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> andI hope you have this policy is in writing.
> 
> it is a Public Relationship nightmare to keep going when you witness an emergency right in front of you and you do absolutely nothing.  I can see the headlines now: "Massive MVA occurs in front of fire truck, who just keep on driving by."
> 
> ...



Yes this policy is in writing. We do not stop if we are waved down or if there is an accident. But we must contact dispatch and tell them or call 911 if it's not in our response area.


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## Farmer2DO (Aug 1, 2011)

"I tried to stop the ambulance by waving them down and stepping in front of them, but they drove around me and kept going, and my baby died because of them!"

"XYZ News has learned that the crew that ignored the injured child who later died while waiting for help was transporting grandma from a hospital to a nursing home, and that in fact, there was a paramedic on board that could have save the child's life."

Dramatic, I know, but I have to say, kind of a messed up policy.  Unless you're transporting emergently, I think stopping to evaluate and wait for someone else to arrive is just the logical, ethical thing to do.


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## Chimpie (Aug 1, 2011)

Farmer2DO said:


> "I tried to stop the ambulance by waving them down and stepping in front of them, but they drove around me and kept going, and my baby died because of them!"
> 
> "XYZ News has learned that the crew that ignored the injured child who later died while waiting for help was transporting grandma from a hospital to a nursing home, and that in fact, there was a paramedic on board that could have save the child's life."
> 
> Dramatic, I know, but I have to say, kind of a messed up policy.  Unless you're transporting emergently, I think stopping to evaluate and wait for someone else to arrive is just the logical, ethical thing to do.



That's when your excellent PIO comes out w/ a copy of the recorded radio traffic where the ambulance in question immediately requested an additional unit to the area where the person w/ infant was.

Don't have the above?  Maybe it's time to rethink some things.


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## Shishkabob (Aug 1, 2011)

I stop and have stopped and will continue to stop, even outside of my service area, so long as it doesn't jeopardize patient care, and haven't heard to the contrary, either at my old agency or new.


When I worked for AMR in Dallas doing IFTs, we rolled up on a fresh MVC on the highway.  We called it in to our dispatch and to 911, let Dallas FD we were on scene with a Paramedic ambulance.  They sent a tiller truck and an engine and cancelled the ambulance since we were there.


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## firecoins (Aug 1, 2011)

I will stop.  

If we witness something serious and have a stable patient, we will stop.  The tech continues care and the driver renders care to the patient of the event until extra help comes. An unstable patient in the back and the people are simply out of luck.  

If we witness something that is not serious, we won't stop. we will call for 911 for them but I won't stop for boo boos. 

If we witness something serious while responding to something else, we will stop and render care. It must be serious.  If we find out it isn't, we do a quick RMA and continue.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 1, 2011)

Chimpie said:


> That's when your excellent PIO comes out w/ a copy of the recorded radio traffic where the ambulance in question immediately requested an additional unit to the area where the person w/ infant was.
> 
> Don't have the above?  Maybe it's time to rethink some things.



Exactly. "no our unit did not stop to help because they were already assigned to another call and currently had a patient. Here is the the recording of the unit contacting dispatch and informing them."

If we are in route to a 911 call and a MVC happens right infront of us we contact dispatch and keep driving to the original call, UNLESS dispatch now assigns us to the MVC.


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## dmc2007 (Aug 1, 2011)

This happened to my partner and I a few weeks ago.  Although our patient was stable (this was a "routine" dialysis transfer), I had to stay with the patient while my partner "provided care." (I put quotes because all parties involved were ambulatory and refused when the municipal 911 agency arrived).


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 2, 2011)

Sick pt in the back, we don't stop. Not sick, we stop. Maybe call another car if need be, maybe handle the call ourselves. When enroute to a call, we stop and sort it and have another car assigned to the address we were headed to, or clear it and continue on to the original call. As long as pt care is not compromised, it's really up to the crew.

Jeff


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## MRE (Aug 2, 2011)

MA laws have gone back and forth on this recently.  They settled on the following, at least for now.

If transporting a stable patient, an ambulance may stop at the scene of another emergency if emergency services have not yet arrived, provided that an EMT stays with the patient in the rig.


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## truetiger (Aug 4, 2011)

Not running code.....you need to stop. Whoever is in back stays in back with your patient while the driver calls it in and renders first aid.


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## McGoo (Aug 8, 2011)

I have stopped in the past, and I would require a majorly sick patient in the back for me not to stop. We don't have a service area, we service the whole state. The closest state boundary is 1000 miles away, so it's safe to say it will be our job. If I'm driving I get out, see if anyone is hurt or requires an ambulance (they are often mutually exclusive), and let dispatch know that either a) I have spoken to people at the scene and they dont want an ambulance (to save sending a crew based on a call from a semi-concerned bystander), or b) I need X number of crews of appropriate priorities, after which I will either render assistance or leave them to it.


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## nomofica (Aug 9, 2011)

If I do not have a patient, I will stop. If I have a patient and they are stable, I will stop. If I have a patient and they are very ill/injured, I will not stop.

Also, the severity of the accident will be a determining factor in whether or not I will stop. Fender bender, no. Small collision and all parties appear okay, no. Anything that looks like it's gotta hurt, see first paragraph).

I always radio in the location and situation to dispatch regardless of what my patient situation is.


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