# I'm not sure I want to call myself a Texan anymore.



## bigbaldguy (Dec 19, 2012)

Two women are stopped for littering. The officer things they are acting "weird" so the women are given a body cavity search (yeah i said a :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing body cavity search) on the side of the damn road in full view of passing cars. They found nothing! I'm usually the first person to say "I wasn't there so I'm not going to second guess the actions of the officers who were" but this has me so absolutely disgusted my gut is twisted. I can't even begin to imagine a scenario in which these officers could believe they were doing the right thing. As a person who has proudly called himself a Texan for 34 of his 39 years (a lot of kids don't talk until 5) it is just one of many horrific things I've recently discovered my state has allowed to happen. This state has gone rotten from the top down.

When I first read about this I thought there was no way the event was as bad as the article could be making it out to be so I found the video. Be warned the last two minutes of video are disturbing. 

If you were on scene and saw this happening what would you do/say? 

All I can think is that if I had been on scene when this happened I would have probably gotten myself tazed. I have seen and


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## VFlutter (Dec 19, 2012)

I am assuming the officers were male? I thought anything other than a pat down required a female officer, especially a body cavity search.

Link to vid?


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## STXmedic (Dec 19, 2012)

Chase said:


> I am assuming the officers were male? I thought anything other than a pat down required a female officer, especially a body cavity search.
> 
> Link to vid?



No, the searching officer was female.

I don't see how this has anything to do with being a Texan. Idiots are in every state. Except for Wyoming. There's nothing in Wyoming. 

That incident was pretty ridiculous, though.


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 19, 2012)

Sorry I was so fired up I spaced on link

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/201...-alleging-roadside-body-cavity-searches.html/

Searching officer was female but... Just watch the video I can't even begin to describe it.


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## Veneficus (Dec 19, 2012)

I keep volunteering my labor to build the wall and lay the mines if Texas promises to secede. 

They keep teasing me and letting me down.


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 19, 2012)

PoeticInjustice said:


> No, the searching officer was female.
> 
> I don't see how this has anything to do with being a Texan. Idiots are in every state. Except for Wyoming. There's nothing in Wyoming.
> 
> That incident was pretty ridiculous, though.



Just one of many insane things I'm seeing here in Texas. I would have agreed with you that it was just random acts of stupidy a year ago but it's simply becoming an absolute madhouse here. This is just another example of what happens when the lunatics run the asylum.

I don't mean to paint all LE with the same brush but these aren't isolated incidents anymore they've become endemic and not just in LE but in the politics here in general. We have clinics that are run by churches and have no medically qualified providers yet are funded with tax dollars that were taken from real clinics. We have civil rights abuses occurring on a weekly if not daily basis. We have politicians who openly call women who use contraception :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s and I can't go 24 hours without hearing someone spout off racist rhetoric. This state is literally eating itself but because oil money keeps the whole thing bobbing along no one wants to point out that the emperor has no clothes on.


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## VFlutter (Dec 19, 2012)

Did anyone catch the conversation at the very end. The lady was saying how she felt violated and the cops response was something along the lines of "Its because someone in the car is a daily smoker, you can attribute it to that" 

Um say what? :glare:


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## RocketMedic (Dec 19, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> Just one of many insane things I'm seeing here in Texas. I would have agreed with you that it was just random acts of stupidy a year ago but it's simply becoming an absolute madhouse here. This is just another example of what happens when the lunatics run the asylum.
> 
> I don't mean to paint all LE with the same brush but these aren't isolated incidents anymore they've become endemic and not just in LE but in the politics here in general. We have clinics that are run by churches and have no medically qualified providers yet are funded with tax dollars that were taken from real clinics. We have civil rights abuses occurring on a weekly if not daily basis. We have politicians who openly call women who use contraception :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s and I can't go 24 hours without hearing someone spout off racist rhetoric. This state is literally eating itself but because oil money keeps the whole thing bobbing along no one wants to point out that the emperor has no clothes on.



Teneha, TX recently was indicted in federal court for detaining minorities, (probably) planting/"inventing" offenses, and 'persuading' them to sign over their assets to the city as 'drug profits' to avoid legal troubles. You can imagine just how broken a city is when it defends that behavior.

Texas is a great state, but many of its government authorities are corrupt to an extent unbelievable to outsiders. "Good ole' boys", money and a lack of effective oversight at work.

EDIT: That is, quite literally, rape. Forcible rape under auspices of police authority. I hope that DPS gets _eaten alive_ by this lawyer.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Dec 19, 2012)

I didn't even realize they could do body cavity searches on the side of the road!  I thought you had to be under arrest for anything more than a "Terry Pat down"


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## Fish (Dec 20, 2012)

PoeticInjustice said:


> No, the searching officer was female.
> 
> I don't see how this has anything to do with being a Texan. Idiots are in every state. Except for Wyoming. There's nothing in Wyoming.
> 
> That incident was pretty ridiculous, though.



Amen


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## Gorgeousgeorge (Dec 20, 2012)

That was disturbing. And against basic civil liberties


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## medic417 (Dec 20, 2012)

That was an ineffective cavity search if in fact she did enter the cavity's.  Looked more like she just made sure nothing was hidden in the outer crevices. To do a proper cavity search they would have had the women strip, squat, cough, then examine outer area, then open while visualizing so as not to inadvertently shoving contraband further up and out of reach.


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## akflightmedic (Dec 20, 2012)

If you notice, both women pull their hips away when sensitive parts were touched. It is a normal and expected reaction to being touched when not invited.

The search was beyond reasonable and totally inexcusable, especially when the sole reason for being pulled over was a cigarette citation.

I would be the guy in jail right now had this gone down with me on scene. They could bring the dogs, they could bring the on duty sergeants, they would NOT be going in my pants.

Hell I would have been in arms over even a pat down for a cigarette citation.

Another example of the average civilian not knowing their basic civil rights and cops too stupid to know them as well. Not to mention them overstepping their boundaries...absolutely disgusted by all in the video.


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## medic417 (Dec 20, 2012)

akflightmedic said:


> If you notice, both women pull their hips away when sensitive parts were touched. It is a normal and expected reaction to being touched when not invited.
> 
> The search was beyond reasonable and totally inexcusable, especially when the sole reason for being pulled over was a cigarette citation.
> 
> ...



Agreed and even if they try and claim justified the fact that it was not done correctly throws that out the window.


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## shfd739 (Dec 20, 2012)

I hope these 2 ladies win big in court..and that trooper winds up in jail.

To even think that this is acceptable to that trooper blows my mind..

Has anyone else noticed a worsening mentality among law enforcement that they are untouchable? I know Ive seen it here.


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## teedubbyaw (Dec 20, 2012)

I've never had a good encounter with a Texas trooper. Some of the most corrupt people out there. I've watched them make traffic stops without any causation and throw out fictitious accusations.


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## Gorgeousgeorge (Dec 20, 2012)

This goes with my previous post


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## JPINFV (Dec 20, 2012)

Meh, it's the police. The officer will get a 2 week paid vacation followed by a promotion, just like every other time they decide that the law and constitution is too hard to follow.


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## Imacho (Dec 20, 2012)

I believe they didn't have justifiable PC and therefore the 2 should have refused the search. Cops don't expect you to know that they are searching you illegally. If cops get consent then they can search. They should not have consented to a search.


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## shfd739 (Dec 20, 2012)

Imacho said:


> I believe they didn't have justifiable PC and therefore the 2 should have refused the search. Cops don't expect you to know that they are searching you illegally. If cops get consent then they can search. They should not have consented to a search.



How many people are going to refuse a search though? The average citizen doesn't know when they can and cannot refuse a search. Even if they know that doesn't mean they want to step into the mess that will come with refusing a search. Refusing a search could potentially unleash even more untoward actions. 

We should be able to trust that the police are doing the right thing and aren't overstepping their boundaries or laws. Cops aren't above the law and they aren't untouchable.


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## mycrofft (Dec 20, 2012)

I watched trhe video. Half-baked drug search (why bra edging was slid). Notice they made sure the searches were done in front of the dashcam. There is always context, but this looks like things were just done wrong and someone sent it viral. What was the pretext for the pullover? Obviously hoping to smoke out (pun unintended) a drug bust.

This was not a cavity search, but an invasive public pat-down.


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## VFlutter (Dec 20, 2012)

mycrofft said:


> This was not a cavity search, but an invasive public pat-down.



When the officer's fingers entered the subjects' anus and vagina, using the same glove for both , I think it qualifies as a cavity search. IMO


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## phideux (Dec 20, 2012)

Chase said:


> When the officer's fingers entered the subjects' anus and vagina, using the same glove for both , I think it qualifies as a cavity search. IMO



I don't believe they should have been pulled out and searched like that for throwing a cigarette butt out the window, but by the video, you can't tell if anyones fingers enter their anus or vagina.
That said, my BIGGEST pet peeve is A-Holes who think the world is their ashtray and chuck their butts out the window. They should have been shot.


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## m0nster986 (Dec 20, 2012)

This must be the apocalypse the Mayans were talking about.


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## Imacho (Dec 20, 2012)

shfd739 said:


> How many people are going to refuse a search though? The average citizen doesn't know when they can and cannot refuse a search. Even if they know that doesn't mean they want to step into the mess that will come with refusing a search. Refusing a search could potentially unleash even more untoward actions.
> 
> We should be able to trust that the police are doing the right thing and aren't overstepping their boundaries or laws. Cops aren't above the law and they aren't untouchable.



You're right. Not too many people know. And that is a shame. Everybody should know their rights and how/web to use them. This is a great example of citizens not know their rights. And cops will lie to you just to get consent for a search. I find that disgraceful.


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## Tigger (Dec 20, 2012)

Wouldn't refusing the search probably have just gotten them arrested?


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## JPINFV (Dec 20, 2012)




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## mycrofft (Dec 20, 2012)

Refusing a field  *(non-cavity*) search before you go into MY patrol car's back seat will get you tossed onto the hood of the car before you get searched. Not going to be backshot for being sensitive.
We had a jail officer once who matriculated to the street. Got a reputation for stripping out cars he stopped for anything, and he made a LOT of stops; then, drive away leaving the car and driver there with spare tire, back seat, trash, etc on the sidewalk and in the gutter.
He was back with us fairly soon, something about death threats.


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## mycrofft (Dec 20, 2012)

JPINFV said:


>



Oh, you've been returning from oveseas through Atlanta International too?h34r:


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## Amberlamps916 (Dec 20, 2012)

Every group has members that do horrible/immoral things. Don't let others' actions affect your own pride in being a Texan. Stay true to your roots and let the bad ones get what they deserve eventually.


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## Amberlamps916 (Dec 20, 2012)

JPINFV said:


>



This is truly amazing I must say.


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## grump (Dec 20, 2012)

WoW. All I can say is if they did that to my wife or daughter, they would have me behind bars. Whatever their reasons this does NOT justify doing that along side of the road. I don't care much for law suits but these girls deserve to win big. Patdowns,..OK but that was a violation on both ladies even if they did find dope in the car or on their person. They live and walk all around us. :wacko::wacko:


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## tomservo (Dec 21, 2012)

This is just insane


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 21, 2012)

If you watch the officers they don't act as though this is anything out of the ordinary whatsoever. The fact that it is done right in front of the camera without the slightest hesitation by the officers tells me that they have done this before and nothing was done about it. Probably the people it was done to didn't file a complaint. Folks this is basically sexual assault and many sexual assaults go unreported because the victims are afraid or ashamed. I imagine there will be a great deal of dash cam footage reviewed and it will be very interesting to see how many of these illegal searches "aka sexual assaults" occurred prior to this one being reported. At least I hope that it is reviewed but I've seen so many gross abuses of power and failures in the justice system herenin Texas that I suspect very little will change.

I find comments like "this wasn't a cavity search they just checked the outer crevices" and the like very disturbing. When did placing just the tip of your finger in a person become less "bad" then using the entire finger.


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## medic417 (Dec 21, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> I find comments like "this wasn't a cavity search they just checked the outer crevices" and the like very disturbing. When did placing just the tip of your finger in a person become less "bad" then using the entire finger.



I missed the part of the video where you see any part of any finger penetrate anyone.  Can you post the time so I can go refresh my memory?  

I agree this was improperly handled but we only have their word that they were penetrated.


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 21, 2012)

medic417 said:


> I missed the part of the video where you see any part of any finger penetrate anyone.  Can you post the time so I can go refresh my memory?
> 
> I agree this was improperly handled but we only have their word that they were penetrated.



:huh: So you think the whole hand down the pants with the second woman for 5 seconds with shoving and the pushing movement toward the woman was just what exactly? This cop performed an illegal search with complete and horrific disregard for the privacy and total disrespect of the women involved but I'm supposed to believe the two women made up the fact that they were penetrated. Sorry but I'm gonna have to believe the women on this one seeing as the officers involved arent looking like terribly reliable sources at this point. No this wasn't an actual body cavity search. As someone pointed out that requires considerably more than what occurred here, but watching the video of the second woman being searched I don't find it at all unreasonable that what the woman described as occurring did indeed occur.


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## medic417 (Dec 21, 2012)

Again probable yes, definitive no.  Were the cops wrong? Hell yes.


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## mycrofft (Dec 21, 2012)

I think we can agree it was wrong, apparently repercussions were not feared, and bad judgement was exhibited.


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 21, 2012)

medic417 said:


> Again probable yes, definitive no.  Were the cops wrong? Hell yes.



Fair enough


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## DrParasite (Dec 22, 2012)

shfd739 said:


> How many people are going to refuse a search though? The average citizen doesn't know when they can and cannot refuse a search. Even if they know that doesn't mean they want to step into the mess that will come with refusing a search. Refusing a search could potentially unleash even more untoward actions.


There is an old saying: if you are innocent, than you have nothing to hide, so why would you object to a search?  and if you do object to a search, what are you hiding?

and your right, refusing a search can be interpreted mean you committed the crime of contempt of cop.  Cop asks you to do something, you refuse, now instead of getting a warning, you are getting as many tickets as he or she wants, often with no proof other than the cops word.  It's your word against the cops, and who is the local judge (who knows the cop) going to believe?

What bothers me the most is that not one did one cop think this was necessary, but two.  The original cop who pulled them over, and the female cop was special called to violate both women with the same glove.  Not like it was 2 partners, two independent officers.  how messed up is the Texas state police that two separate officers think this is acceptable?

and medic417, if they weren't penetrated, than the cop had a really good feel up on the front and back, esp for the amount of movement and time spent.  If I were to do that to a girl, she would expect dinner and drinks first.

Both cops should be terminated, and both should be criminally charged with sexual assault.  But I have a sad feeling that they will be criminally cleared, as "they were just doing a very thorough job", or at least that is what the investigation will conclude.


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## JPINFV (Dec 22, 2012)

DrParasite said:


> There is an old saying: if you are innocent, than you have nothing to hide, so why would you object to a search?  and if you do object to a search, what are you hiding?



There's also the time, hassle, annoyance, and principle of being free from random searches or police fishing trips to consider.  



> and your right, refusing a search can be interpreted mean you committed the crime of contempt of cop.  Cop asks you to do something, you refuse, now instead of getting a warning, you are getting as many tickets as he or she wants, often with no proof other than the cops word.  It's your word against the cops, and who is the local judge (who knows the cop) going to believe?



...and the police wonder why so many normal citizens completely distrust them.


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## medic417 (Dec 22, 2012)

Just a word to the wise if you decide to tell the cops you refuse consent to search car or person, you will get searched.  Once you refuse they will place you on hold while getting a search warrant.  Probable cause for warrant will be suspicious behavior and most judges will approve warrant. Now not only will you be searched but instead of wasting 10 minutes of your life you may have wasted several hours and possibly even have to pay to get your car out of impound where it was towed pending approval to search.


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## usalsfyre (Dec 22, 2012)

medic417 said:


> Just a word to the wise if you decide to tell the cops you refuse consent to search car or person, you will get searched.  Once you refuse they will place you on hold while getting a search warrant.  Probable cause for warrant will be suspicious behavior and most judges will approve warrant. Now not only will you be searched but instead of wasting 10 minutes of your life you may have wasted several hours and possibly even have to pay to get your car out of impound where it was towed pending approval to search.



After which they'll get to entertain a lawsuit for violation of 4th amendment rights. A police officer has no need to rifle through my belongings.


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## medic417 (Dec 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> After which they'll get to entertain a lawsuit for violation of 4th amendment rights. A police officer has no need to rifle through my belongings.



Very easy to justify search.  They do not have to find anything to be cleared. You winning a law suit is less likely.


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## JPINFV (Dec 22, 2012)

Meh, it's Texas. The police thieves are just going to confiscate anything of value anyways under "asset forfeiture" laws. The best option is to simply avoid the police, and the state, at all costs.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 22, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> There's also the time, hassle, annoyance, and principle of being free from random searches or police fishing trips to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> ...and the police wonder why so many normal citizens completely distrust them.


http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e241511092932.txt
[sarcasm]Unless, of course, the police chief and mayor authorize it. [/sarcasm]



medic417 said:


> Just a word to the wise if you decide to tell the cops you refuse consent to search car or person, you will get searched.  Once you refuse they will place you on hold while getting a search warrant.  Probable cause for warrant will be suspicious behavior and most judges will approve warrant. Now not only will you be searched but instead of wasting 10 minutes of your life you may have wasted several hours and possibly even have to pay to get your car out of impound where it was towed pending approval to search.


If they get a search warrant, so be it.  That's the way they are supposed to do it.  Despite what some law enforcement members believe, making them do their job is NOT obstruction.  I ave nothing to hide, but nor do I have anything to gain by waiving my rights for their convenience.


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## foxfire (Dec 22, 2012)

I am sorry, but I refuse to have some stranger's hand feeling me up. The light pat down in ok, have had that happen may times going through airport security. But this is just wrong. And it is a crying shame that a victim of this would have to pay to get there car out of impound and waste a lot of time at the station. When they only stood up to being wrongfully searched.


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## Imacho (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm 100% legal in every department. But I would not allow a search. It's the principle that it my right to refuse it.


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## JPINFV (Dec 22, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e241511092932.txt
> [sarcasm]Unless, of course, the police chief and mayor authorize it. [/sarcasm]



When I first read that story a couple of days ago I wished I lived near by. I'd love to play the "4th Amendment Lottery" there. After all, jogging without ID at 2 am isn't a crime.


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## DrParasite (Dec 22, 2012)

medic417 said:


> Now not only will you be searched but instead of wasting 10 minutes of your life you may have wasted several hours and possibly even have to pay to get your car out of impound where it was towed pending approval to search.


ever watch those towing shows on spike or truTV?  even if the cops are wrong, or the towed the wrong vehicle, or the violation was not on the part of the owner (PD error, DOT error, found not guilty by the court, etc), the owner still needs to pay the towing and impound fees.


JPINFV said:


> When I first read that story a couple of days ago I wished I lived near by. I'd love to play the "4th Amendment Lottery" there. After all, jogging without ID at 2 am isn't a crime.


Oddly enough, two nights ago, I went jogging at 3am, in black pants, black long sleeve shirt (designed for running), a black hat, and black and blue running shoes (designed for running).  No ID, no cell phone, only my house keys and a water bottle.  

If a cop asked me for ID, or why I was running around suburbia dressed all in black, I don't know how I would respond without arousing suspicion.

most parents teach their kids to follow any directions of a police officer.  and now it seems that what our parents taught us when we were young doesn't apply, as more and more stories of officers overstepping their authority are occurring.  And we need to go against what our parents told us to do, and tell the cops no, we won't do what the officer says just because he's the cop.


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## Jambi (Dec 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> After which they'll get to entertain a lawsuit for violation of 4th amendment rights. A police officer has no need to rifle through my belongings.



One of the few decent things the ACLU has produced

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA[/YOUTUBE]


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## usalsfyre (Dec 22, 2012)

medic417 said:


> Very easy to justify search.  They do not have to find anything to be cleared. You winning a law suit is less likely.



One of the more upsetting things about Texas (and I dearly love this state) is that there are certain corners of it where those who enforce the law believe it doesn't apply to them. I've suspected and heard of some small and not-so-small town cops doing some positively thuggish things. I've worked closely with law enforcement for a decade now. Sadly I'm more suspicious of them than I was 10 years ago.


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## Veneficus (Dec 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> One of the more upsetting things about Texas (and I dearly love this state) is that there are certain corners of it where those who enforce the law believe it doesn't apply to them. I've suspected and heard of some small and not-so-small town cops doing some positively thuggish things. I've worked closely with law enforcement for a decade now. Sadly I'm more suspicious of them than I was 10 years ago.



A couple of my old school LE friends have an opinion on this I would like to share as food for thought. 

The purpose of a police force is to insure order in society. That doesn't always mean arresting people, getting the "bad guy" etc. 

US Police forces have evolved into law "enforcement" as a way not to maintan order, but to preemptively protect society from disorder. 

While this may seem beneficial, the more laaws you have and the more you enforce them, the higher overall rates of crime you have.

Some people, in and out of law enforcement see this Police state as beneficial, providing safety and security. 

Personally I don't like the idea of police states. I'd rather accept some insecurity and danger. Because no matter how law obiding of a citizen you think you are, sooner or later, the sheer volumes of laws created to "protect" you are make you a criminal for some minor deviation.


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## JPINFV (Dec 22, 2012)

DrParasite said:


> most parents teach their kids to follow any directions of a police officer.  and now it seems that what our parents taught us when we were young doesn't apply, as more and more stories of officers overstepping their authority are occurring.  And we need to go against what our parents told us to do, and tell the cops no, we won't do what the officer says just because he's the cop.




Issues become more nuanced as we grow up. There's a huge difference between a 7 year old blindly following authority and a 25 year old or 40 year old blindly following authority.


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## medic417 (Dec 23, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> One of the more upsetting things about Texas (and I dearly love this state) is that there are certain corners of it where those who enforce the law believe it doesn't apply to them. I've suspected and heard of some small and not-so-small town cops doing some positively thuggish things. I've worked closely with law enforcement for a decade now. Sadly I'm more suspicious of them than I was 10 years ago.



There are some like that in every state.  Sadly the bad cops are the ones that everyone talks about.


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 24, 2012)

medic417 said:


> There are some like that in every state.  Sadly the bad cops are the ones that everyone talks about.



I'm seeing it more and more here. Not just in LE but also EMS, FD, politics, you name it. Corruption, graft, nepotism, incompetence, racism, sexism, xenophobia. It's becoming a lot like Venezuela under chavez. Nobody bucks the system because the economy is doing so well and it's easy living for everyone but in the meantime the people in charge are tearing the place down from the inside. Maybe Enron would be a better example. Oh wait Enron was a Texas company how ironic. I've been a Texan my whole life and it kills me to see this happening to it but I point it out to people and they just shrug and say "Yeah but look at the great economy" :/


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## titmouse (Dec 24, 2012)

The video of the whole thing is up online. I hope the ST gets reprimanded accordingly!


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