# Portable Automatic BP Cuff?



## Hockey (Feb 28, 2009)

Before anyone says it, I know automatic cuffs aren't always accurate and if possible to use the manual cuffs so it doesn't need to be said.  

I am just wondering, does anybody (other then using the monitor cuff) have a automatic portable BP kit?  Any suggestions on a decent one that won't break the pocket book?  How accurate do they tend to be?

Do they make a multiple size cuff?


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 28, 2009)

In my personal experience, the ones out on the market today tend to be quite accurate.  Surprisingly, even the wrist models were quite accurate.  I have tested them against manual readings and have not found any significant variations.  That said, you touched on the biggest possible problem, which is cuff size being appropriate for the patient.  I don't know what is available, as far as various sized models, but that should certainly be something you address as you look to purchase one.

After you buy one, test it against manual readings on everyone you can find for a few days.  Chart the results and determine the average difference so you can see if it is significant or not.  If it isn't, then you can use it with confidence. If it is, then just go get your money back and try another one.


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## emtfarva (Feb 28, 2009)

I only used the ones at the hosp. In the back of the truck I perfer to use a manual cuffs.


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## Sasha (Feb 28, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> Before anyone says it, I know automatic cuffs aren't always accurate and if possible to use the manual cuffs so it doesn't need to be said.
> 
> I am just wondering, does anybody (other then using the monitor cuff) have a automatic portable BP kit?  Any suggestions on a decent one that won't break the pocket book?  How accurate do they tend to be?
> 
> Do they make a multiple size cuff?



You can get them at walmart or walgreens, they're really cheap and unprofessional looking and don't be suprised if you get to the ER with a BP of 80/40 when your auto cuff was reading 120/80.


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## Hockey (Feb 28, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> In my personal experience, the ones out on the market today tend to be quite accurate.  Surprisingly, even the wrist models were quite accurate.  I have tested them against manual readings and have not found any significant variations.  That said, you touched on the biggest possible problem, which is cuff size being appropriate for the patient.  I don't know what is available, as far as various sized models, but that should certainly be something you address as you look to purchase one.
> 
> After you buy one, test it against manual readings on everyone you can find for a few days.  Chart the results and determine the average difference so you can see if it is significant or not.  If it isn't, then you can use it with confidence. If it is, then just go get your money back and try another one.



I'm looking at OMRON they look like the big company.  I saw they have one with multiple cuffs for professionals, but on eBay they run $450 and up.  HEM-790IT looks alright.  

It would help on some calls because I could just throw it on as I am doing other things too and free up a minute or two.


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## emtfarva (Feb 28, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> I'm looking at OMRON they look like the big company. I saw they have one with multiple cuffs for professionals, but on eBay they run $450 and up. HEM-790IT looks alright.
> 
> It would help on some calls because I could just throw it on as I am doing other things too and free up a minute or two.


If they are that expensive they may need to be calibrated every year so, be careful what you buy.


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## Hockey (Feb 28, 2009)

Sasha said:


> You can get them at walmart or walgreens, they're really cheap and unprofessional looking and don't be suprised if you get to the ER with a BP of 80/40 when your auto cuff was reading 120/80.



Yeah I thought I saw something there the other day.  


Right now taking a BP while driving down a Michigan road is honestly, next to impossible.  Potholes, sinkholes, and even en route to China holes are everywhere.


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## Sasha (Feb 28, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> Yeah I thought I saw something there the other day.
> 
> 
> Right now taking a BP while driving down a Michigan road is honestly, next to impossible.  Potholes, sinkholes, and even en route to China holes are everywhere.



Do you think that those cheap BP cuffs will be much better? If the tube moves it probably wont even read it and you look like an idiot fumbling to readjust.

Florida doesn't have pretty roads either, yet somehow we still manage to get a manual BP while rolling down the interstate or highway.


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## emtfarva (Feb 28, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Do you think that those cheap BP cuffs will be much better? If the tube moves it probably wont even read it and you look like an idiot fumbling to readjust.
> 
> Florida doesn't have pretty roads either, yet somehow we still manage to get a manual BP while rolling down the interstate or highway.


And if you can't hear it you can feel with a manual cuff, you can't do that with an automatic. Also the roads In MA have to be the worst in the country.


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## Hockey (Feb 28, 2009)

I think we could all debate the roads all night long, but we would win 

Always go for manual baseline and once you start transporting if you need to get another I don't have a problem with an auto-cuff as long as its calibrated properly


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 28, 2009)

If this is for actual professional use, as opposed to at home, then this isn't necessarily a good idea.  You will want to get specific approval from your Medical Director to use unapproved medical devices while working under their license.  There's a very good chance that they will deny you.


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## Hockey (Feb 28, 2009)

We have a very...whats the word? open? medical director.  We are more "open" then surrounding counties.  Its permitted to be used as long as a manual is taken first.  There are a few basics that use auto-bp but I don't get a chance to talk to these people much since we work opposite shifts.


One thing I REALLY wish ALL of us basics had, would be a Pulse Ox.  My partner I work with in the AM for my 24 has one and it is honestly a life saver and IMO improves patient care.


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 28, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> We have a very...whats the word? open? medical director.  We are more "open" then surrounding counties.  Its permitted to be used as long as a manual is taken first.  There are a few basics that use auto-bp but I don't get a chance to talk to these people much since we work opposite shifts.


I wasn't speaking of all automated BP devices in general.  I was speaking only of the consumer grade devices that are not specifically approved as medical devices.  This is something that your MD may have an issue with, and taking other EMTs word for it isn't a particularly good idea.  In fact, many agencies strictly prohibit the use of personal equipment in patient care.  There are multiple legal cases that explain why.  Be professional.  Be sure.



> One thing I REALLY wish ALL of us basics had, would be a Pulse Ox.  My partner I work with in the AM for my 24 has one and it is honestly a life saver and IMO improves patient care.


We've added a good 40 hours of content to the EMT curriculum in the last fifteen years, yet we have not lengthened that 120 hour requirement from before that content was added.  Consequently, today's EMT course is already so diluted that graduates cannot ever hope to truly understand what they are learning.  To get the "life saver" benefit out of a pulse oximeter, you would need a lot more physiological understanding than any EMT course gives, plus about eight hours of training specifically on the use of the device and interpretation of the readings.  Consequently, what you recommend simply is not feasible.  There is zero that an EMT can do with those readings except for write them down and freak out about them.  No lives would be saved.  Not everything that looks cool is of any actual benefit to the patient.


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## Hockey (Feb 28, 2009)

Just for proof of how bad our roads are


Pothole causes accidental firearm discharge


Even the criminals are getting beat up by the potholes


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## emtfarva (Feb 28, 2009)

Ok, why was he carrying a gun while riding his bike?


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## Hockey (Mar 1, 2009)

emtfarva said:


> Ok, why was he carrying a gun while riding his bike?



Its Flint.  

Crackheads put weapons under their babies stroller.

Seriously...its that bad


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## Dustoff (Mar 1, 2009)

I use an ABPC in high noise areas but will  always b/u w/a manual!
.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 1, 2009)

emtfarva said:


> Ok, why was he carrying a gun while riding his bike?


Doesn't everybody?  :unsure:


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## medicdan (Mar 1, 2009)

This is all good advice, but look to the past for the true informaiton. A search revealed previous discussions of this same issue, see here:
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5474
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5909

Please, for everybody's sake, learn to take a BP properly, its really not that hard-- and you will be fine.


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## pinochello (Mar 1, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> This is all good advice, but look to the past for the true informaiton. A search revealed previous discussions of this same issue, see here:
> http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5474
> http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5909
> 
> Please, for everybody's sake, learn to take a BP properly, its really not that hard-- and you will be fine.



The trith is this is one idea that diferent countrys will give you new resons to really say yes or no, but the truth is most automatic cuffs are really inacuret and can make it hard to give top grade help. Plus if the patiente crashed and is moving to much the auto B/P will be giving you next to 0 reading.

In the town i work in p.r. you can use the auto B/P cuffs but its your licence at risck and if the patient dies you lose every thing.


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## emtfarva (Mar 1, 2009)

Plus if they have no pressure it will not read, or take a while to do it. I like to listen and feel when taking a B/P. and if I have a problem getting a pulse, I will keep the cuff pumped up and listen to the pulse rate. It works great on a beriatric Pt where trying to wade through the extra skin to find a pulse point is very hard. The only real problem on using a manual cuff I have found is if the Pt is skin and bones and non-complaint and will not extend his arm to get a proper reading.


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## reaper (Mar 1, 2009)

emtfarva said:


> *Plus if they have no pressure it will not read, or take a while to do it.* I like to listen and feel when taking a B/P. and if I have a problem getting a pulse, I will keep the cuff pumped up and listen to the pulse rate. It works great on a beriatric Pt where trying to wade through the extra skin to find a pulse point is very hard. The only real problem on using a manual cuff I have found is if the Pt is skin and bones and non-complaint and will not extend his arm to get a proper reading.




Hate to say this, but a manual cuff is not going to be much help there either! If they have no pressure, there is no pressure to get!


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## medic417 (Mar 1, 2009)

You have to use proper size cuffs regardless of whether manual or automatic or your readings are wrong.  An elderly skin and bone person may require a small child cuff.  A fat person may require a thigh cuff on the arm.  Those size lines are there to make sure you get an accurate BP which is critical for diagnosing prior to pushing meds, etc.


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## emtfarva (Mar 1, 2009)

reaper said:


> Hate to say this, but a manual cuff is not going to be much help there either! If they have no pressure, there is no pressure to get!


I have had a Pt that was 50 systoilic where a auto cuff couldn't find it.


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## emtfarva (Mar 1, 2009)

medic417 said:


> You have to use proper size cuffs regardless of whether manual or automatic or your readings are wrong. An elderly skin and bone person may require a small child cuff. A fat person may require a thigh cuff on the arm. Those size lines are there to make sure you get an accurate BP which is critical for diagnosing prior to pushing meds, etc.


I was using the proper cuff size, the guy just didn't leave his arm straight. I tried different spots on the arm but his bicep and tendons kept getting in the way. When I used an auto cuff it worked much better.


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## Hockey (Mar 1, 2009)

pinochello said:


> The trith is this is one idea that diferent countrys will give you new resons to really say yes or no, but the truth is most automatic cuffs are really inacuret and can make it hard to give top grade help. Plus if the patiente crashed and is moving to much the auto B/P will be giving you next to 0 reading.
> 
> In the town i work in p.r. you can use the auto B/P cuffs but its your licence at risck and if the patient dies you lose every thing.




Spell check seems to be a "risck" too 




Sorry just giving ya a hard time but...


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## BEorP (Mar 1, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> One thing I REALLY wish ALL of us basics had, would be a Pulse Ox.  My partner I work with in the AM for my 24 has one and it is honestly a life saver and IMO improves patient care.



Please explain specifically how it will improve patient care.


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