# Tracy Residents Now Have To Pay $300 For 911 Calls



## MMiz (Feb 21, 2010)

*Tracy Residents Now Have To Pay For 911 Calls*

TRACY, Calif. (CBS13) ―  Tracy residents will now have to pay every time they call 9-1-1 for a medical emergency.

But there are a couple of options. Residents can pay a $48 voluntary fee for the year which allows them to call 9-1-1 as many times as necessary.

Or, there's the option of not signing up for the annual fee. Instead, they will be charged $300 if they make a call for help. 

*Read more!*


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## medic417 (Feb 21, 2010)

Excellent those that use a service should pay more than those that do not use a service.  If your in the habit of calling 911 take the cheap package.


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## VentMedic (Feb 21, 2010)

This should be interesting with the use of cellphones and neighbors or people passing by making the calls.  Don't get involved and ignor the emergency so you won't have to fight city hall to get your bill adjusted for trying to do a good deed.


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## CAOX3 (Feb 21, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> This should be interesting with the use of cellphones and neighbors or people passing by making the calls.  Don't get involved and ignor the emergency so you won't have to fight city hall to get your bill adjusted for trying to do a good deed.



+1

Couldnt agree more, find another way raise revenue.


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## Foxbat (Feb 21, 2010)

So, a frequent caller will pay $48 _a year_ to abuse 911 service and exclaim "I paid for it! I can call as much as I want!" if someone tries to tell him about 911 abuse, while someone with a stroke will pay $300 for one legitimate call a year.
Can be a way to raise funds for 911 center (along with some fish fries and bingo ) but as far as a means of preventing abuse...


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## JPINFV (Feb 21, 2010)

My gut tells me that the article is poorly written and that it's a charge for the use of service with an optional subscription service available and not a phone bill charge for dialing 911.


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## VentMedic (Feb 21, 2010)

Interesting as there is more to the story...this is a FD fee for the little city of Tracy.

• Emergency medical call for residents: $300

• Emergency medical call for non-residents: $400

• Paramedic in ambulance with patient: $100

• Car crash response for everyone: actual costs

• Unlock door when someone locks himself or herself out of home or car: $180 

Could this stem from their decision to get deeper into the EMS business by making every FF become a Paramedic?



> Firefighters “got into the emergency response business” about 25 years ago, Bosch said, and about two years ago, the council voted to have each firefighter also be a trained paramedic, the highest standard of care for those who respond to medical calls.


 
http://tracypress.com/view/full_story/2737469/article-City-Council-OKs-fees-for-paramedic-use

I believe this might be AMR country for the actual transport.


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## CAOX3 (Feb 21, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Interesting as there is more to the story...this is a FD fee for the little city of Tracy.
> 
> • Emergency medical call for residents: $300
> 
> ...



Would this be in addition to having your health insurance billed?


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 21, 2010)

i find it hard to believe that the ambulance would treat and transport someone and then charge a passerby who called...


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## Veneficus (Feb 21, 2010)

I think I am going to try and be the first brain transplant surgeon.

So this is what it looks like to me. The powers that be in Tracy, California are probably hoping that everyone gets scared and signs up for the $48 package. That way they can add that to an operating budget. (a sly way to increase taxes I must say)

But lets have a closer look. They cannot ask to raise taxes. Likely nobody would accept that. (assuming your billing the patient) How often does the average person call 911 in their life? You'd be a fool to pay $48 a year.

Unless, you are using 911 as a safetynet because you cannot afford the average $120 for a PCP visit. In which case referring somebody who probably has a stellar credit report (sarcasm) to collections will probably yield you.... Nothing.

Or facing the threat of a $300 bill, those on a fixed income (who probably don't have a spare $48 laying around) will simply not call 911. Ever. When they die, you'll get... Nothing. Unless your city has an estate tax. 

You could try billing the caller. In which case people would stop calling 911. When your run volume goes down, it will be really hard to ask for more money to maintain your  budget. "You've been doing less and you want the same or more?"

What if people start calling the "home boy" ambulance service and getting no treatment, just a ride to the hospital to cut down on the bill? That completely defies the point of an EMS service.  

Those ALS engine companies in Tracy just don't generate the revenue to pay for themselves I guess. Well I guess they can push to start taking over EMS. Of course with a 9 million budget deficit the up front cost might be a bit prohibitive. 

http://www.ci.tracy.ca.us/departments/fire/station_info/

I didn't see any ambulances on this operations page, maybe the citizens would be better off calling the local ambulance company directly and cut out 911 all together? 

I also wonder how many fires they have a year they need so many engine companies? With 9 locations? 

"look skipper, rocks dead ahead..."


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## Aidey (Feb 21, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> This should be interesting with the use of cellphones and neighbors or people passing by making the calls.  Don't get involved and ignor the emergency so you won't have to fight city hall to get your bill adjusted for trying to do a good deed.



You know, to be blunt, if this reduces drive by call ins then good.

There needs to be a law saying that if you call 911 to report something you have to stay on scene until EMS arrives. If it is something dangerous, you need to stay at a designated spot, ie someone calls to report an assault, and they sit in the gas station parking lot down the street.

It is asinine how much time and energy is wasted chasing 911 calls for MVAs and "man downs" and assaults where neither PD nor Fire can ever find anything. 8 people call in the same MVA without any of them ever stopping to find out if 1. 911 has already been called or 2. If anyone actually wants 911 called. 

Or 5 people call in a man down and by the time EMS gets there the guy is gone. Then we spend 30 minutes looking for the guy in case they gave us bad directions. The last one of these we had that turned out to be something serious, and resulted in the guy dying. It took the FD 20 minutes to find him after the 911 call because the person never stopped and gave poor directions. Would the 20 minutes have saved his life? Probably not, you never know.


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## CAOX3 (Feb 21, 2010)

Aidey said:


> You know, to be blunt, if this reduces drive by call ins then good.
> 
> There needs to be a law saying that if you call 911 to report something you have to stay on scene until EMS arrives. If it is something dangerous, you need to stay at a designated spot, ie someone calls to report an assault, and they sit in the gas station parking lot down the street.
> 
> ...



Simply put, no one will call.  Would you?  I wouldnt.  frankly I will call in a MVA if Im driving by, if you expect me to post until the appropriate public service department arrives, I simply wont call.  

What if I call and dont wait what are you going to do about it and would you have a legal leg to stand on?  

Its a double edge sword.  I guess you have to take the good with the bad.

I do understand you logic.


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## JPINFV (Feb 21, 2010)

Aidey said:


> You know, to be blunt, if this reduces drive by call ins then good.
> 
> There needs to be a law saying that if you call 911 to report something you have to stay on scene until EMS arrives. If it is something dangerous, you need to stay at a designated spot, ie someone calls to report an assault, and they sit in the gas station parking lot down the street.
> 
> ...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect


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## DrParasite (Feb 22, 2010)

this is not as uncommon as you might think.  private ambulance companies have been doing it FOR YEARS, in fact, so have some volunteer FDs in the midwest.  just look up subscription services.

as a general rule, it is the patient that gets billed, not the caller.  also, for 3rd party calls, the caller IS NOT on the hook for any bills, provided it was a good intent call.  also, if the patient RMAs, generally a bill is not generated unless EMS actually performs an intervention (waking up diabetics, bleeding control, etc)

basic logic is that it works like an insurance policy.  you pay the $48 thinking you won't need the service; however, should you need it, the costs are covered.  if you don't want to pay, that is your choice, but should you need the service, the cost is significantly higher (300+) than the $48 you had the option of purchasing when no emergency exists.


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## JPINFV (Feb 22, 2010)

...but the question is, in 6 years will I ever need an ambulance. What makes a ton of sense, though (and not always an option) is that businesses can also buy a subscription that covers everyone on their propery. So if a movie theater needs to call 911 for a guest and they're subscribed, the patient shouldn't be getting a bill.


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 22, 2010)

wouldn't that depend on if the theater called 911?  What if the spouse of the patient calls?


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## DrParasite (Feb 22, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> ...but the question is, in 6 years will I ever need an ambulance. What makes a ton of sense, though (and not always an option) is that businesses can also buy a subscription that covers everyone on their propery. So if a movie theater needs to call 911 for a guest and they're subscribed, the patient shouldn't be getting a bill.


the service is individual or family based, not business.  

and in 6 years, you probably won't need an ambulance.  but in year 5, when you nail your thumb to a board while installing a book shelf, or in year 2 you get hit by a car while crossing the street, do you want to have your EMS bills covered?  or will you complain that the bill is to high, and the response of "well you could have subscribed for the service and it would be covered" would be appropriate?

again, it has NOTHING to do with who called 911, it has to do with who is in need of 911.  and if the person "in need" doesn't want them, they can be canceled or sign an RMA with out a bill.  it isn't all the difficult.


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## JPINFV (Feb 22, 2010)

DrParasite said:


> the service is individual or family based, not business.
> 
> ...
> 
> again, it has NOTHING to do with who called 911, it has to do with who is in need of 911.  and if the person "in need" doesn't want them, they can be canceled or sign an RMA with out a bill.  it isn't all the difficult.




As I said, it depends on *who* is providing the service because there *are* subscription programs that cover businesses. When I used the term "call" in that sense, I'm talking about a *business* who calls on behalf of a *guest*. While the *business* might not be *liable* for the bill, the fact that the *business* has subscribed relives their *guest* of *liability* for the bill.



Additionally, a subscription doesn't help me if I get into an accident 2 towns over and am cared for by a different EMS agency.


Example of business coverage:


> Newport Beach Businesses:
> If your business is located in Newport Beach, you can enroll all your employees and on-site customers in the Fire Medics program. For
> companies with ten or fewer employees, the annual membership fee is $48 a year, including customer coverage. If your company is larger, there’s an additional $12 charge for each group of ten employees up to a maximum fee of $216 per year. Each employee enrolled in the Fire Medics program may participate in Aculert at no additional charge.



http://www.newportbeachca.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=4827


Now if you run a business where people regularly get injured (ski resort, amusement park, etc) or just have a large number of guests going through (malls, movie theaters, etc), it makes sense to pay $200 and give your customers coverage because people will get hurt. That's just statistics.


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## CAOX3 (Feb 22, 2010)

DrParasite said:


> the service is individual or family based, not business.
> 
> and in 6 years, you probably won't need an ambulance.  but in year 5, when you nail your thumb to a board while installing a book shelf, or in year 2 you get hit by a car while crossing the street, do you want to have your EMS bills covered?  or will you complain that the bill is to high, and the response of "well you could have subscribed for the service and it would be covered" would be appropriate?
> 
> again, it has NOTHING to do with who called 911, it has to do with who is in need of 911.  and if the person "in need" doesn't want them, they can be canceled or sign an RMA with out a bill.  it isn't all the difficult.



It isnt about being difficult, its about local goverment nickle and diming their residents to death.

This is why I pay property taxes, if your  local goverment cant balance their budget why the hell should the residents have to keep bailing them out.


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## JPINFV (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh... something else to consider.


Looking at the Tracy FD website, this isn't for an ambulance. The fee is purely for the fire department to get off their butts and respond. If they contract out ambulance transport (regardless of who provides the paramedics. California style EMS based fire suppression has a private company supplying the ambulance and the fire department the paramedics), then their residents could still be hit with an ambulance bill regardless of if they are subscribed or not.


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## fortsmithman (Feb 22, 2010)

CAOX3 said:


> It isnt about being difficult, its about local goverment nickle and diming their residents to death.
> 
> This is why I pay property taxes, if your  local goverment cant balance their budget why the hell should the residents have to keep bailing them out.



Maybe the voters in Tracy should do what the voters in my town did vote the current mayor and council out of office and elect new blood to run their municipality.


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## fortsmithman (Feb 22, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Oh... something else to consider.
> Looking at the Tracy FD website, this isn't for an ambulance. The fee is purely for the fire department to get off their butts and respond.



I thought getting paid their salary was to get them to do their job.


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## MS Medic (Feb 23, 2010)

CAOX3 said:


> It isnt about being difficult, its about local goverment nickle and diming their residents to death.
> 
> This is why I pay property taxes, if your  local goverment cant balance their budget why the hell should the residents have to keep bailing them out.



You also already pay a 911 sercharge on your phone bill. The local government would be triple dipping if you count property taxes, 911 sercharge and this $48 dollar tax


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## EMSLaw (Feb 23, 2010)

MS Medic said:


> You also already pay a 911 sercharge on your phone bill. The local government would be triple dipping if you count property taxes, 911 sercharge and this $48 dollar tax



And that's stopped them when?

I just see this as another reason not to move to California, which might own the distinction of being the only state more flat-a** broke than mine.


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