# Students texting in class



## mycrofft (Dec 10, 2011)

How do you feel about students texting away in class? Or taking frequent cell phone calls by leaving the classroom?


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 10, 2011)

An occasional text or step outside for a call isn't a huge deal. Once it becomes more of a regularity we get talked to, then either asked to put it away and pay attention or to pack up and leave. 

It is downright rude to the teacher to constantly be on your phone. It's rude to use your phone at all but it does happen from time to time.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 10, 2011)

If they walk out of class to take an important phone call or text then it's not an issue. 

If they do it while in class they get warned. If they do it again they get sent home for the day. If they come back the next week and do it again they are kicked out of the program. 

However there is one exception. The student can talk to the instructor before class starts and says that they are expecting an important phone call or text.


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## MMiz (Dec 10, 2011)

In general, as a teacher I would be offended if a student was texting in class or stepped out to take a phone call.  

When I started working in education policy at the university level I found that most people at meetings and in classes worked on their laptops/phones/iPads during presentations, and respected that as adults that was their choice.  

Whatever your policy, you need to be clear about it up front.  It's common for someone to share ground rules at the beginning of meetings, and cell phone policies are usually shared.


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## JPINFV (Dec 10, 2011)

Is it distracting? If not, why care? I would compare it to medical school, but a 200+ seat lecture hall situation is admittedly different than the smaller class size often seen in EMS programs.


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## bstone (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't mind it if they silently text in class. The only person it hurts is them self. I do ask my students to put all phones on silent or vibrate. That's a huge pet peeve of mine.


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## Sasha (Dec 10, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Is it distracting? If not, why care? I would compare it to medical school, but a 200+ seat lecture hall situation is admittedly different than the smaller class size often seen in EMS programs.



I don't understand how someone else can be bothered by another person's texting.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Dec 10, 2011)

*re*

Rules of my classes are turn em to silent or off.  As long as nobody else in the class room is distracted by the phone user it isn't an issue.  But as soon as I see the other students get distracted all phones get turned off.


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I don't understand how someone else can be bothered by another person's texting.



When it buzzes constantly it gets annoying. If you want to turn the ringer and vibrate off more power to you but like I said it is rude to the teacher or presenter not to mention rude to the people around you because it truthfully is distracting. I moved seats in my class because the person I sat next to texted constantly.


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## Sasha (Dec 10, 2011)

If it's on silent, not vibrate... how is it distracting?


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> If it's on silent, not vibrate... how is it distracting?



Hers was on vibrate so it was very distracting. Silent thats fine with me but honestly, I like where I sit now much better anyways haha.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> If it's on silent, not vibrate... how is it distracting?



The way it's distracting for me is the person normally has the phone in their pocket. So they have to move around to get the phone out. Then, with girls mostly, they make noises like laughing or snorting etc. It's not only girls that do that it's guys too. Then the typing isn't always quiet. If its a dark environment in the class then the light from the phones screen lights up the room. 

Then when they are done texting with the flip phones, people don't know how to quietly close the phone. And then more movement as they put the phone back into their pocket...... Just to repeat the whole thing over again in a couple of mins.


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## Sasha (Dec 10, 2011)

So you're bothered by some light, and movement so much that it's distracting but you are saying you can run a chaotic scene with strobe lights flashing and lot more movement??

I think people who claim they're bothered by silent texting in class are really just nosy or ticked off that no one wants to talk to them.


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## medicdan (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha, as an instructor, i'm distracted when students are texting... I like students to be engaged-- and for whatever reason, it throws me off when students are focused on the light at their crotch. Call it jealousy their not talking with me if you'd like.


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## bstone (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't particularly care if the students are engaged or not. Some students don't learn well in lecture and completely tune out, but they are amazing book learners. As long as they have a master of the material and pass the exams I am fine with them being as disengaged as they want to be.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> So you're bothered by some light, and movement so much that it's distracting but you are saying you can run a chaotic scene with strobe lights flashing and lot more movement??
> 
> I think people who claim they're bothered by silent texting in class are really just nosy or ticked off that no one wants to talk to them.



In the class setting yes I get bothered but then again I am trying to learn in a controlled environment with 1 person talking to the class and everyone sitting down and not making noise. 

There is no way that a classroom can be compaired to a chaotic scene. During a call that is chaotic I am not trying to learn anything. I am not focusing on what one person is telling me. I am listening to multipul people as i give directons to others. I am handling the scene by whatever means nessarry. 

A classroom and scene are 2 completely different things and no one on the scene of a call let alone a chaotic scene should be texting.


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> So you're bothered by some light, and movement so much that it's distracting but you are saying you can run a chaotic scene with strobe lights flashing and lot more movement??
> 
> I think people who claim they're bothered by silent texting in class are really just nosy or ticked off that no one wants to talk to them.



Different context.

I don't need to text people constantly, I talk to them face to face. It's more personal but maybe that's just personal preference.


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## Sasha (Dec 10, 2011)

Talking to someone face to face is not always possible, hence texting.

I honestly don't believe someone can be so fussy that a little light distracts them, but expect to be able to focus on scene...

I don't even text, I click my pen or tap my pen or something. Always. I don't even notice I'm doing it, yet others find that distracting. 

Amazing.


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Talking to someone face to face is not always possible, hence texting.
> 
> I honestly don't believe someone can be so fussy that a little light distracts them, but expect to be able to focus on scene...
> 
> ...



You know I like you Sasha but I honestly don't believe you'd be that close minded about something after all the experience you've had with different people. 

Ask my partner if I can focus on scene. You're talking about two completely different environments.


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## JPINFV (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I don't understand how someone else can be bothered by another person's texting.




It depends on how the sight lines are in the class and how easily it caches a person's peripheral vision. In this regard, I think a 200+ lecture hall where the seats are curved around the stage is much better at preventing movements from catching peripheral vision than a small classroom setup. 

I've never gotten the argument about respect from the instructors viewpoint. In many situations the student is paying money, at times a lot, and the instructor is being paid.


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## JPINFV (Dec 10, 2011)

Sasha said:


> So you're bothered by some light, and movement so much that it's distracting but you are saying you can run a chaotic scene with strobe lights flashing and lot more movement??
> .




...because learning and implementing are two different things.


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## usalsfyre (Dec 10, 2011)

As an educator, as long as your not being disruptive I don't care. I'm there to present the material and do my best to ensure your understanding. If you choose not to be engaged, that's your business. As I frequently engage the classroom, be aware you now have a bullseye on you for getting asked questions.


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 10, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> As I frequently engage the classroom, be aware you now have a bullseye on you for getting asked questions.



This makes me smile.

Idk why but I always find it amusing when an instructor asks someone a question who isn't paying any sort of attention.


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## bstone (Dec 11, 2011)

This was obviously staged, but it's funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ5Zahh9akI&feature=g-vrec


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

^
Of course, the problem is that you never know who may be in your class...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7lXG792doQ&feature=related




That video also shows the importance of preplanning...


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## Smash (Dec 11, 2011)

I lecture to large groups (150+) and tutor small groups of 10-20.  I probably don't notice what goes on in the lecture theatre most of the time as there is no way I can focus on the behaviour of that many people.  Obviously in the small groups, I do notice.  If someone lets me know they need to take a call or something, that is fine.  

However, even in the large halls, it can indeed be distracting, if not to me, then to the students around the person.  More than that, disrespectful to me and the other students to be continually disturbing everyone, therefore if I become aware of it, it becomes a problem.  My lectures are only typically 1-2 hours; your social life can be put on hold for that long.


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## EMRRx (Dec 11, 2011)

Addressing a phone during lecuture is disruptive. A good analogy is like trying to watch a good movie at the theater, and someone opens their phone to check a message, and, or respond. Your eyes immediately leave the picture and you focus on the phone disruption over and over again. Same thing applies during class. It is not something you can ignore, it breaks your concentration even if you do not realize it.

I agree with the rules inforced during my College Fire Academy. Phones are placed in your locker. You can check them, and respond if necessary during your breaks or between classes. Your phone is never seen or heard during class. NO EXCEPTIONS. If an emergency, family, or friends are welcome to call the school phone and ask to speak with the student.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

So, for the "phones are distracting" crowd, do you allow laptops to be used during class to follow along with the lecture and to take notes with?


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 11, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> So, for the "phones are distracting" crowd, do you allow laptops to be used during class to follow along with the lecture and to take notes with?



As for the EMT class I am a skills instructor for I've never seen a student being a laptop to class. If they need to take notes they can write it down with a good old pen and paper.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

Do you make your lecture slides available before class? Wouldn't being able to take slides in powerpoint be better than wasting a ton of paper and ink? 

Of course I'm used to 100 slides being covered in 4 hours or less fairly often.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 11, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Do you make your lecture slides available before class? Wouldn't being able to take slides in powerpoint be better than wasting a ton of paper and ink?
> 
> Of course I'm used to 100 slides being covered in 4 hours or less fairly often.



The main instructor of the class e-mails all the slides and material he will be covering a day or two before he goes over the material. 

But he is also a strong believer that it is easy to remember information if you have to write it down yourself.


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## Smash (Dec 11, 2011)

I do everything I can to avoid using powerpoint, however what slides I do use are made available after the lecture.  There is also a big difference between using a computer to take notes and texting/talking to your friends.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

Smash said:


> I do everything I can to avoid using powerpoint, however what slides I do use are made available after the lecture.  There is also a big difference between using a computer to take notes and texting/talking to your friends.



If the issue is the glow, then yea... the computer glows much brighter than a phone, or is this not about the student distracting other students?


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

firefite said:


> The main instructor of the class e-mails all the slides and material he will be covering a day or two before he goes over the material.
> 
> But he is also a strong believer that it is easy to remember information if you have to write it down yourself.



Depending on how the lectures and slides are set up, that could be easier said than done.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Dec 11, 2011)

emt.dan said:


> Sasha, as an instructor, i'm distracted when students are texting... I like students to be engaged-- and for whatever reason, it throws me off when students are focused on the light at their crotch. Call it jealousy their not talking with me if you'd like.



Same here. I require all my students to have their phone on silent or OFF! I will often pop a question on students I see texting as well. 95% of the time, they can't answer it. So I kind of use it as a little unspoken object lesson for everyone. 

I'm not teaching just to teach or make money. I am teaching so that others may actually LEARN.


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## Smash (Dec 11, 2011)

Yes, distraction is part of it.  A constantly glowing screen is less annoying and distracting than an intermittently buzzing phone and talking.  Most people I see using a computer to tak notes have the screen set at a low level as the theatre is dark anyway.

And, as I have already stated, it is also about showing some respect towards the lecturer and the other students.  If your writing skills are so poor that you need a computer to take notes, so be it, we can make allowances.  If you are so disinterested in the lecturer, or have so little respect for your fellow students that you are talking or texting throughout the lesson, then you may as well not be there as you are disrupting the learning experience for everyone else.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

Smash said:


> If your writing skills are so poor that you need a computer to take notes, so be it, we can make allowances.  If you are so disinterested in the lecturer, or have so little respect for your fellow students that you are talking or texting throughout the lesson, then you may as well not be there as you are disrupting the learning experience for everyone else.



1. Yes, because there isn't an issue about 100 page power point presentation with colored backgrounds. Have you ever accidentally printed off even a 30 page presentation where the professor decided to go with black background on white text? After going through a brand new ink cartridge because of that I do my best to avoid printing them out. Not to mention the cost (both monetary and ecological) of printing out hundreds of slides just to throw them away two weeks later after the exam. Oh, and changing white on black to black on white isn't exactly a quick feat on numerous page presentations, especially when you have to start changing more than just text. 

I like the appearance of white on black for the LCD projector. However, how about a little respect by releasing slides that are black on white without any sort of cutesy background or animations where pictures end up on top of pictures? How about a little respect by producing an actual primer instead of a primer that reads like notes a student took? 

2. There's a reason most medical students would rather download the lecture recording and play at 2x speed than sit in a lecture for 4 hours straight. Oh, but lectures are about "respect" and not imparting knowledge in the best manner for the student. Where's the "respect" in requiring mandatory attendance of students who don't necessarily learn the best by listening to a professor speak extra slow while reading off lecture slides verbatim?  

I love it when respect is treated as a one way street, and then lecturers wonder why no one "respects" them by paying attention. 

3. You know, it's strange. I've never been bothered by someone else pulling out a phone and texting (provided it was on silent), or screwing around on a computer. Or heck, even quietly excusing themselves from a lecture hall when they were in the back or near an aisle.

Of course I also can't remember ever being in a lecture hall that needed to be pitch black, or really anything more than slightly dimmed, for a LCD projector to work properly. A computer screen in a properly set up lecture hall isn't anything close to, say, a computer screen in a movie theater.


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## Smash (Dec 11, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> 1. Yes, because there isn't an issue about 100 page power point presentation with colored backgrounds. Have you ever accidentally printed off even a 30 page presentation where the professor decided to go with black background on white text? After going through a brand new ink cartridge because of that I do my best to avoid printing them out. Not to mention the cost (both monetary and ecological) of printing out hundreds of slides just to throw them away two weeks later after the exam. Oh, and changing white on black to black on white isn't exactly a quick feat on numerous page presentations, especially when you have to start changing more than just text.






			
				Smash said:
			
		

> I do everything I can to avoid using powerpoint, however what slides I do use are made available after the lecture.





			
				JPINFV said:
			
		

> I like the appearance of white on black for the LCD projector. However, how about a little respect by releasing slides that are black on white without any sort of cutesy background or animations where pictures end up on top of pictures? How about a little respect by producing an actual primer instead of a primer that reads like notes a student took?



Been to any of my lectures?  Have any idea how I format my lectures or my slides?  Strawman much?



			
				JPINFV said:
			
		

> 2. There's a reason most medical students would rather download the lecture recording and play at 2x speed than sit in a lecture for 4 hours straight.






			
				Smash said:
			
		

> My lectures are only typically 1-2 hours





			
				JPINFV said:
			
		

> Oh, but lectures are about "respect" and not imparting knowledge in the best manner for the student. Where's the "respect" in requiring mandatory attendance of students who don't necessarily learn the best by listening to a professor speak extra slow while reading off lecture slides verbatim?






			
				Smash said:
			
		

> I do everything I can to avoid using powerpoint, however what slides I do use are made available after the lecture





			
				Smash said:
			
		

> you need a computer to take notes, so be it, we can make allowances.



My lectures (as with all the lectures) are also video recorded and converted to MP3s. 



			
				JPINFV said:
			
		

> I love it when respect is treated as a one way street, and then lecturers wonder why no one "respects" them by paying attention.



I pay the students the respect of turning up on my days off, often without pay, to give them the benefit of what little knowledge and experience I can profess to hold.  I don't think it too great an imposition upon them to put their social life on hold for the short time I am with them, or at least not distract me or their fellow students whilst partaking of extra-curricular activities..  If that is disrespectful, so be it, I won't lose any sleep over that.

[





			
				JPINFV said:
			
		

> 3. You know, it's strange. I've never been bothered by someone else pulling out a phone and texting (provided it was on silent), or screwing around on a computer. Or heck, even quietly excusing themselves from a lecture hall when they were in the back or near an aisle.



Mostly, nor have I:  


			
				Smash said:
			
		

> I probably don't notice what goes on in the lecture theatre most of the time



However, the OP asked: 





			
				mycrofft said:
			
		

> How do you feel about students texting away in class? Or taking frequent cell phone calls by leaving the classroom?





			
				JPINFV said:
			
		

> Of course I also can't remember ever being in a lecture hall that needed to be pitch black, or really anything more than slightly dimmed, for a LCD projector to work properly. A computer screen in a properly set up lecture hall isn't anything close to, say, a computer screen in a movie theater.



No, it isn't: 


			
				Smash said:
			
		

> Most people I see using a computer to take notes have the screen set at a low level as the theatre is dark anyway



My error, I should have said "darkened" as opposed to "dark".  Mea culpa.

We aren't talking about taking notes in a lecture, we are talking about people texting or taking frequent phone calls.

I don't know what has got your goat JPINFV, but you are better than this.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

Smash said:


> I don't know what has got your goat JPINFV, but you are better than this.




Here's my issue. I agree that taking constant phone calls can cause an issue. Text messages? Not so much. I view it in the same light as messaging through G Chat or Facebook, or what have you. If it's not making any sound, there should be little issue. 

So, lets' start over. 

We're both taking our experiences as instructor and student respectively and extrapolating it. Additionally, I did take the implication that the primary reason why notes are taken on a computer is because of poor hand writing personally. Also, to clarify, it wasn't the "your" (I generally treat "you" as being generic, not directed at anyone specific, in situations like this) that I took personally, but the overall message. Yea, my hand writing is terrible, however I don't have a problem decrypting my handwriting. What's more important to me is not having to print out and assemble a couple hundred pages of slides, many of which have dubious quality in the sense of note taking. I'm not much of a tree huger, but if I can be more efficient, I'll be more efficient, and electronic note taking allows that. 

In my experience, using my learning style, live lectures are more often than not a waste of time given how they are designed, the quality of the lecturer (let's speak real slow and read off the slides verbatim), and the fact that my attention span is only about 30-40 minutes and watching recordings allows me to speed up the video to obtain a watchable speed, as well as pause, rewind, and fast forward through breaks at will. The only reason I attend lectures is because of the quiz at the start and the potential for a pop quiz at the end. Besides that, the 4 hours a day of lecture is mostly a waste of time. Considering that probably about 1/3 of the class would attend if it wasn't for the threat of quizzes, instead opting to watch lecture recordings, I don't feel that I'm alone with this assessment or learning style. 

Similarly, in my experience, lecturers often talk about their 1 or 2 hours, but don't realize (or, and hopefully not, don't care) that the student may have several more hours in a row. Your two hours may just be a part of a 7-8 hours of lecture for the students. When I'm sitting down for 7-8 hours almost straight (even with the 5-10 minute breaks every hour and an hour lunch), there's still a lot of information being imparted of varying qualities, and I'm not going to be very receptive to someone saying "Well, I'm only 2 hours," especially when, in my case (your money will vary), I'm paying $40-50k a year. In my case, if a lecturer isn't getting paid, then I'm sorry they're getting screwed, but at that cost I do expect quality professors that lecture well and can be understood. Similarly, I don't consider a professor to be on their time off, since I expect that at least part of my tuition is going to pay professors, hence making this a job and not a day off. If one of your employees or coworkers came in and expected an easier time because they worked on a day off from their other job, how would you respond? 

Finally, in my experience, most classrooms set up for projectors and most lecture halls are set up so that the lights can be varied by zone. In general, the lights over the stage will be darker with the amount of light rapidly increasing until fully on near the back. Overall, I'd say the lights are slightly dimmed moreso than dark or darkened. Granted, this is a bit of a semantics argument, but given how lights are set up, I can understand how some rooms would honestly need to be dark to properly use a projector. It's just that the last time I've been in someplace similar to that would have had to been almost a decade ago in high school. So I'm not trying to play semantics for the sake of playing semantics. 

In general, I haven't noticed laptops giving off any appreciable glow to be distracted by. Similarly, unless it's something like World Cup soccer (there's a picture from last year of 4-5 computers in different rows streaming a game) where I choose to be distracted, I'm not distracted from the content on another person's computer. Similarly, given the same lighting situation, cell phones don't give off any appreciable glow.

Unfortunately, at least in medical school, "respect" and "professionalism" are more often thrown about as, "You did something that made someone else mad, but we can't actually explain why what you did was wrong, so we're just going to call it unprofessional or disrespectful."


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## Dwindlin (Dec 11, 2011)

Couldn't agree with JP more.  Thankfully my school doesn't do pop quizzes, daily quizzes, or have an attendance policy.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Dec 11, 2011)

*re*

I'm curious if you people who feel it is ok to text and take calls in class also do the same while in movie theaters?


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## Veneficus (Dec 11, 2011)

I'll let people text in class.

I have discovered as a student it is a good way to discuss things with peers without interrupting the teacher or disturbing others.

When I am teaching I will probably ask them a fair question about the topic at hand, if they answer acceptably, no harm no foul.

If they can't, they usually get the point.

But I figure they are paying me for the time, not the other way around. If they have no interest in what I say, as long as I still get my cheque, I don't care.


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## usalsfyre (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't automatically have respect as an educator. If your good enough at education, students will put their phones away.


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## medic417 (Dec 11, 2011)

No problem as long as on silent, not vibrate, not low, but silent.  If I feel they are causing a disturbance they are removed from the class with no credit for the day.  They don't bother me but all the other people that are paying me deserve to be able to enjoy my monotone lectures.


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## abckidsmom (Dec 11, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> I don't automatically have respect as an educator. If your good enough at education, students will put their phones away.



This. I was typing and deleting over and over.  I just taught a 4 day series of continuing ed to medics who couldn't have cared less.  They came back, every day, and didn't play on their phones after the first hour.


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## Sasha (Dec 11, 2011)

Corky said:


> I'm curious if you people who feel it is ok to text and take calls in class also do the same while in movie theaters?



Yup.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Dec 11, 2011)

*re*

Lol no surprise there


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## NomadicMedic (Dec 11, 2011)

I've noticed that if students glaze over and start texting, I need to change things up because I've lost them. :/

It's happened when I'm delivering dry, mandated training.


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## abckidsmom (Dec 11, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> I've noticed that if students glaze over and start texting, I need to change things up because I've lost them. :/
> 
> It's happened when I'm delivering dry, mandated training.



Even dry mandated training has another level.  There is always another way.

Not lecturing you, just not accepting dry and boring without entertaining myself in some other way.  I spent 5 months in firefighter training this year.  Because I didn't want to completely disrespect the instructor, I spent each class period outlining the chapter, writing out the objectives and vocabulary.

He always thought I wasn't paying any attention, but was never able to stump me with a question, nor was he able to adequately answer my questions.  It was a collossal effort to stick it out.


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## Veneficus (Dec 11, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Even dry mandated training has another level.  There is always another way.
> 
> Not lecturing you, just not accepting dry and boring without entertaining myself in some other way.  I spent 5 months in firefighter training this year.  Because I didn't want to completely disrespect the instructor, I spent each class period outlining the chapter, writing out the objectives and vocabulary.
> 
> He always thought I wasn't paying any attention, but was never able to stump me with a question, nor was he able to adequately answer my questions.  It was a collossal effort to stick it out.



I have perfected the eyes open, holding head up directly looking at lecturer skill. 

They really think i am hanging on every word.

But my mind is nowhere remotely involved.


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## NomadicMedic (Dec 11, 2011)

Oh I agree. I try to adjust my style to the audience. When the stuff is boring, as it sometimes is, we'll get up, take a break, play a game, ask questions... 

However, when the chief mandates that I read the slide verbatim and don't deviate, I'm kind of stuck. 

So, frequent stops or diversions help to make the dry stuff more palatable. Agreed?


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

Corky said:


> I'm curious if you people who feel it is ok to text and take calls in class also do the same while in movie theaters?




Those aren't equivalent environments, especially regarding lighting level.


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## webster44 (Dec 11, 2011)

No cell phones. If I see it then they leave the class.  Expectations are made clear on the first day of class.
(also the policy suggested from a naemse class)

I don't post my power point slides anymore. I found students would read them instead of the book.



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## usalsfyre (Dec 11, 2011)

I wonder why so many instructors insist on acting like this


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Dec 11, 2011)

*re*



JPINFV said:


> Those aren't equivalent environments, especially regarding lighting level.



No, but it does show a general lack of respect for others.  Students have typically paid for these classes, just like paying for a movie.  When I pay for a course I pay for the course,  not to have some immature person playing on their phone moving about and being a distraction and showing no regard for others who are there, including the instructor. I see no difference in the level of rude thoughtless behavior.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

Corky said:


> No, but it does show a general lack of respect for others.  Students have typically paid for these classes, just like paying for a movie.  When I pay for a course I pay for the course,  not to have some immature person playing on their phone moving about and being a distraction and showing no reguard for others who are there, including the instructor. I see no difference in the level of rude thoughtless behavior.




Again, I honestly question how much what I do on my computer or on my phone distracts others simply because it is so wide spread. Do you get distracted if someone is reading the news on their computer or using G Chat?


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Dec 11, 2011)

*re*

Remember not all classrooms are lecture halls that people can spread out in if attendance is low.  I would venture to say less then 5 percent of EMS classrooms are.  

And webster is correct, NAEMSE who HAVE studied adult education and theory, also note the same due to the amount of ADHD adult learners. 

And no I am not distracted as an instructer but I get comments from other students who say they are when I get the course evaluations back.


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## webster44 (Dec 11, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Again, I honestly question how much what I do on my computer or on my phone distracts others simply because it is so wide spread. Do you get distracted if someone is reading the news on their computer or using G Chat?



The answer is. Yes ,  what you do on your computer distracts other students.

It also wastes my time when I ask them a question in class they can't answer or the next day when they ask me a question about something we discussed in class allready, or when I have to remediate them them because they they missed things when texting with people

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## usalsfyre (Dec 11, 2011)

webster44 said:


> It also wastes my time when I ask them a question in class they can't answer or the next day when they ask me a question about something we discussed in class allready, or when I have to remediate them them because they they missed things when texting with people


They're adults. Give them where they can find the answers and mention it was discussed in class. 

Spoon feeding is another reason we have issues with entry standards.


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## webster44 (Dec 11, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> They're adults. Give them where they can find the answers and mention it was discussed in class.
> 
> Spoon feeding is another reason we have issues with entry standards.



I can possibly agree with you a bit about spoon feeding.  But I find its because the students don't have the skills to learn. I'm pushing to increase the standards of the reading level of incoming students. And this next semester I am having someone come in got the first two nights of class to discuss college success strategies.

The comment that they are adults sounds to me like an instructor that needs to evaluate why they are teaching.   (though I recognize that is an appropriate comment for certain students.)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2011)

^
This brings up another side of the situation. What about the times when someone is lecturing or discussing things (study strategies in this case) that the student has already a good grip on? Sitting through another study strategies discussion sounds like torture almost to the level of sitting through another EMT refresher course.


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## usalsfyre (Dec 11, 2011)

I will help you as much as I can. But if the reason your asking me questions is because you chose to ignore the lecture I'm not going to rehash what was just covered.

We expect recognition as professionals yet educate like elementary school. It's about setting an expectation.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Dec 11, 2011)

*re*

The one thing I learned in the military that provides such comfort in situations like this JP, Sleeping with my eyes open..........









JPINFV said:


> ^
> This brings up another side of the situation. What about the times when someone is lecturing or discussing things (study strategies in this case) that the student has already a good grip on? Sitting through another study strategies discussion sounds like torture almost to the level of sitting through another EMT refresher course.


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## MidwestFF (Dec 13, 2011)

As I just finished up the didactic portion of a degree program the experience that I have had is that most if not all of our instructors didn't care if you sent texts or had to excuse yourself from class to take a phone call. Many in our class were on call even thou in class and could be dispatched/ called in at a moments notice. It was not even that uncommon for the instructors to take a call or answer a text in class. The only time phones were off limits was during testing.

As someone pointed out we are all adults, and at least our group was mature enough to deal with it. Just as someone else pointed out if we can get that easily distracted by a phone ringer or a little bit of light, how about a good multi-vehicle pileup in the middle of the night when you have police, fire, ems, and the whole world watching?

Respect is a two way street, I may give the instructor the initial respect that position deserves but it can go either way from there. Same goes when I'm instructing students in other endeavors at my moonlighting job.

FF


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## mycrofft (Dec 13, 2011)

*Chiming in once more...(rant alert)*

A classroom is not a classroom is not a classroom. And one set of students is much different form another, not to mention one student differs from another.

Compare: six students in the exercise area learning cribbing or litter bearing, or maybe learning how to start an IV, versus thirty employees getting the annual generic dressing down (with Powerpoint) from Admin. 

Or a class of 18 lower income "disadvantaged" young students versus a class of 18 folks between 20 and 30 needing a certificate to get and keep a job.

If it is a learning experience where they don't need the lecture, then I feel they ought to leave and come back later to take their tests like everyone else. If it is a briefing environment where they will not have the luxury of pursuing other avenues, like habitually asking their friends for their notes, then they need to focus in, and multitasking is not conducive to that.

Also, sometimes you are up there fighting to get the class warmed up, get the push-pull thing going, or to get their attention and their respect enough to credit what you are saying. One or two slumped and thumbing students help deconstruct your setting, because there is a portion of any crowd that will notice that and think "Well, if it isn't that big a deal, why am *I* here?". A "briefing" or "Pearls before swine" sort of lecture deal is more like oral publishing or broadcasting, a class setting is more of a performance art and leadership situation. Which do you prefer?

The fact that they were all born, despite their grandparents having to extend each other the courtesy of making and taking landline-only phone calls and sometimes even taking and relaying a  cogent phone message, shows that being part of the "OMG" commensal organism is not essential to survival of the species.  That's party of my rant.:angry:

PS: so, if texting is OK since it does't bother anyone, why not drop your pants in a darkened lecture hall? It's under table or desk and its dark so no one will be bothered....:glare:
PPS: But I suppose that goes on too. I leave the lights on!


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## mycrofft (Dec 13, 2011)

*Ppps:*

What's wrong with pop quizzes, cumulative final exams, even settling the class then asking open ended questions the next day about homework? The problem is that some instructors are so angry at being ignored and disrespected, or have appointed themselves as the guardians of their discipline, that they are out to hurt students. I believe in ungraded pop quizzes, and cumulative exams of material which is either reinforced repeatedly throughout the term, or covered within the last three weeks, or reinforced through other means besides audiovisual or more lecture (after three weeks lecture material without other-means reinforcement is fading).

Last digs. How about telling people they can text if they all sit in one rear corner? And, hasn't the whole Russian thing* come to roost when we say "Once you have paid me, I will pretend you learned things and give you the certificate, if you pretend to give a cr*p by showing up and staying in your seat at least 60% of the time"?  Real quality product there.



* "I will pretend to work as long as you pretend to pay me".


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## Jenniejen (Dec 13, 2011)

As a student I can learn to ignore the texting next to me, but as far as manners go I find it extremley rude. When you're in class I think the appropriate behavior is to be focused on the instructor and the material. If you need to go outside every once in awhile that's fine, but constant texting like an adolecent is disrespectful to the instructor, IMO. I just finished a class and I could not believe how many ADULTS had such horrible manners and courtesy in a classroom enviroment! Constantly showing up late is another huge pet peeve of mine!


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## Veneficus (Dec 13, 2011)

Jenniejen said:


> As a student I can learn to ignore the texting next to me, but as far as manners go I find it extremley rude. When you're in class I think the appropriate behavior is to be focused on the instructor and the material. If you need to go outside every once in awhile that's fine, but constant texting like an adolecent is disrespectful to the instructor, IMO. I just finished a class and I could not believe how many ADULTS had such horrible manners and courtesy in a classroom enviroment! Constantly showing up late is another huge pet peeve of mine!



Just to point out,

my classmates and I don't text between each other in a form of disrespect, but as a method of preserving the respect we have for them by not interrupting them with our questions. Particularly when they are operating and talking at the same time.


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## firetender (Dec 13, 2011)

*Here's my beef, in general*

Old Fogey that I am, I don't like the idea of cell phones or texting at all. I am so Retro with this it even astounds me!

But what I see is billions of people throughout the world choosing to NOT be present in the moment, where they are at and with whom they are with. 

Lecture Hall, car, on the street, a significant part of their time is in anticipation, or at the least in a mode of consciousness going toward the little devices that prevent them from learning from their environment.

I suppose it's cool if you don't mind that more and more, your interactions will be with devices rather than humans. I say this especially for the upcoming generations where I have seen, many times, 12 year olds sitting next to each other and texting the person across the room who's texting someone else, somewhere else.

I fear the loss of our human connection.


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## mycrofft (Dec 13, 2011)

*The point of not discussing while it is going on..*

...is the same as why you don't comment on a television show you are sharing with other people. Unless the lecture is mostly gas, vital info is lost. Not just to "others" but to the person doing the texting etc.
And as far as leaving the class to take cell calls...the point isn't to make rude and inattentive behavior less irritating, the point is that instruction should be a form of social contract. 
Amazing how many "emergencies" happen during a lecture.

Have to admit my wife considers my time on EMTLIFE to be the equivalent of texting in class, however....


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## TatorTots (Dec 13, 2011)

There was a guy in my EMT program who slept the whole time. So rude!! He was in his 50s and smelled bad, i definitely wouldn't want him to respond to any of my emergencies.  :blink:


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## mycrofft (Dec 13, 2011)

*Maybe he wasn't a student?*


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## TatorTots (Dec 13, 2011)

hahaha, no, sadly he was a student! :lol:


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## mycrofft (Dec 13, 2011)

*OK, maybe he was a student.*






Any better?


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## Veneficus (Dec 13, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> ...is the same as why you don't comment on a television show you are sharing with other people. Unless the lecture is mostly gas, vital info is lost. Not just to "others" but to the person doing the texting etc.
> And as far as leaving the class to take cell calls...the point isn't to make rude and inattentive behavior less irritating, the point is that instruction should be a form of social contract.
> Amazing how many "emergencies" happen during a lecture.
> 
> Have to admit my wife considers my time on EMTLIFE to be the equivalent of texting in class, however....



I can see your point, but sometimes, the instruction is so high that if you didn't understand the first part, the following could be the secret to life and the answer to all mysteries in the universe. It is not gas, but you have no idea what you are listening to.


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## DrParasite (Dec 13, 2011)

*No texting allow in class*

As an instructor, one of my big pet peeves is students who text in class.  

The primary issues I have is that is distracts me, as the instructor.  I'm trying to make sure everyone gets it, and when students are spending the class texting, odds are they aren't paying attention.  Plus, with less than 30 students in class, it ends up pretty obvious, at least when I am teaching.

The secondary issue is that if a student is texting during lecture, and not paying attention, than often they have issues passing the final exam.  and if the don't pass the final exam, than they don't pass the class, and that means I need to remediate them (which i don't get paid for), or they complain to my boss that they paid all this money and they didn't pass.  

I try to give frequent breaks, and if you need to step out and take a phone calls, go for it.  if you are constantly out of the room on your phone, than we have a problem.  if you need to send a text message, or reply to a message in class, no big deal.  when you are constantly on your phone texting, than we have a problem.

No one is forced to be in my class.  it's all voluntary, and every student (or their employer/potential employer) has paid $$$ to attend.  if you would rather text/surf the web/spend the day on your phone, go for it; just don't take the class.  

I give students the respect of showing up, and doing my job as the instructor, and trying to make sure they are educated enough on the topic to pass the final exams.  As an instructor, I expect my students to show me enough respect to at least pretend to pay attention in class, and not be playing games on their iPAD or texting during class.


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## mycrofft (Dec 14, 2011)

*Some sidebars*

1. Some of us seem to think of theaters and auditoriums while others think of classrooms in this scenario.
2. Maybe we need a "dash cam" for the lectern to record people texting etc. so if they claim remediation, you tell them "so sorry", or charge them?
3. I have a preconception from the sullen and studiously oblivious faces presented when I see *OR* when I address people texting and taking calls during class.


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## webster44 (Dec 14, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> 2. Maybe we need a "dash cam" for the lectern to record people texting etc. so if they claim remediation, you tell them "so sorry", or charge them?



We have computers on every desk, and in the office we have software that can monitor what students are on.(they know this)  I have shut the computers down while other instructors are teaching because the students have been doing everything from searching dating websites to watching movies.

I know that with my students that by the time I can walk around to see what they are looking at on the computer they close the page. I also found that besides for every once and awhile where someone would look something up for the class that students don't do anything educational on the computers.   SO, next semester the computers will be unplugged except for times that we are taking a test.


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## Tigger (Dec 14, 2011)

I can handle texting as long as it's kept somewhat discreet, same with laptop use. I have no issues with people having laptops in class, I don't care what they're doing generally. The only time it's an issue is in a discussion based class and the entire class has their faces glued to their screens. Not much discussion happens then.

What I cannot handle is the girl that sits next me and administers several neb treatments to herself throughout class, and then makes a big fuss of checking her 02 sats.


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## mycrofft (Dec 15, 2011)

*Just did a google-survey about texting in the classroom.*

Most of the articles it unearthed were about teens texting, but had little or no data about the effect it had on the "classroom experience". Nothing about adults texting in class.
Some articles were actually supportive of it because students could get onto the internet cheaply (whose data rates are they looking at?) versus a computer at home, but again these did not analyze the effects positive or negative on the classroom deal. Also, most of them were written by people working in IT; these are the folks with an interest to sell more phones and plans to students, especially kids.

Well, then, maybe the question is more about whether a study hall or a lecture based classroom is more effective?

But we are presuming that the texting and data-ing are all class related. Eavesdropping and "eaves-reading"  while my friend was teaching, or during the mandatory videos when I teach, indicate it is just a string of "whaddups" and scheduling of get-togethers.


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## Veneficus (Dec 15, 2011)

webster44 said:


> We have computers on every desk, and in the office we have software that can monitor what students are on.(they know this)  I have shut the computers down while other instructors are teaching because the students have been doing everything from searching dating websites to watching movies.
> 
> I know that with my students that by the time I can walk around to see what they are looking at on the computer they close the page. I also found that besides for every once and awhile where someone would look something up for the class that students don't do anything educational on the computers.   SO, next semester the computers will be unplugged except for times that we are taking a test.



You put computers on every desk and actually expect students to listen to the lecture?

Fail.

I have never seen a university lecture hall in any country that actually had a computer at the desk.

So you waste money on software and man hours to police student computer activity?

Why not take the computers and put them somewhere other than where you lecture?

If you don't have enough space, then your program needs to expand or ditch the computers and make the students use the ones at the library.


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## mycrofft (Dec 15, 2011)

*I'm harkening back to an earlier comment:*

It is the instructor's fault that people feel the need to text. (There have been some lecturers in my past I could say that about, but they usually had draconian graded quizzes. One quizzed on footnote wording in the homework assignment).

What is worse, being a student in a class where the instructor spends time on "housekeeping" (cellphoners, inappropriate dress*, safety)  or where the instructor drones on oblivious to all, checks his watch, shuts his notes and walks off?

*salacious pictures on t shirts, potentially gang-related items, hate speech silk screening, safety issues, etc.


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## Veneficus (Dec 15, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> What is worse, being a student in a class where the instructor spends time on "housekeeping" (cellphoners, inappropriate dress*, safety)  or where the instructor drones on oblivious to all, checks his watch, shuts his notes and walks off?





Both are equally bad.


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## webster44 (Dec 15, 2011)

Veneficus said:


> You put computers on every desk and actually expect students to listen to the lecture?
> 
> Fail.
> 
> ...



Most lecturing is useless.    You need to engage your audience. I prefer to be in a room with lab tables, three or four students each.  Every 10-15 minutes I try to have some quick assignment for them to work out.   The learning becomes active and the students pay Attention.

Computers in college classrooms are pretty standard. Especially when you teach in a computer lab . I got what I got. (sigh).    We do use the computers regularly as I set up tests on them. Including the inability to backtrack, like registry.


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 15, 2011)

webster44 said:


> Most lecturing is useless.    You need to engage your audience. I prefer to be in a room with lab tables, three or four students each.  Every 10-15 minutes I try to have some quick assignment for them to work out.   The learning becomes active and the students pay Attention.
> 
> Computers in college classrooms are pretty standard. Especially when you teach in a computer lab . I got what I got. (sigh).    We do use the computers regularly as I set up tests on them. Including the inability to backtrack, like registry.



I'd love to hear you justify how lecturing is useless seeing as nearly every, if not all institutions in the U.S. use a lecture format. 

With how you described your teaching style it sounds like I would enjoy it and also learn a great deal, depending on the content, but I will still argue that lectures are not useless.


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## webster44 (Dec 15, 2011)

NVRob said:


> I'd love to hear you justify how lecturing is useless seeing as nearly every, if not all institutions in the U.S. use a lecture format.
> 
> With how you described your teaching style it sounds like I would enjoy it and also learn a great deal, depending on the content, but I will still argue that lectures are not useless.



Ok. Lecturing does has its place......  Would love to discuss more but I. Running out the door.  Be back later


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## mycrofft (Dec 15, 2011)

*But I think the texting thing is not because they are bored.*

It starts before the lecture does sometimes, and they are defiant. Remind me of my daughter getting her first tattoo.


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## bigbaldguy (Dec 15, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> It starts before the lecture does sometimes, and they are defiant. Remind me of my daughter getting her first tattoo.



Not that I would ever suggest the use of a device that contravenes FCC rules but I have heard there are "devices" that can create cell phone dead zones. I understand they are fairly common in some high end restaurants in major Chinese cities, apparently it's the only way to get people there off the phone.


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## Handsome Robb (Dec 15, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> Not that I would ever suggest the use of a device that contravenes FCC rules but I have heard there are "devices" that can create cell phone dead zones. I understand they are fairly common in some high end restaurants in major Chinese cities, apparently it's the only way to get people there off the phone.



We supposedly had these in the chapel at my HS. (Yes I went to a private Catholic HS). I'm not sure if the rumors were true or what laws would pertain but I do know that the minute you walked into that place my phone would go from full service to nothing within a couple of steps.


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## mycrofft (Dec 15, 2011)

*Where's my last reply go?*

I threatened to bring a Faraday cage to class to shield off cell signals. Well, apparently that alone isn't enough:


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## JPINFV (Dec 15, 2011)

The holes on that "cage" are too large.


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## mycrofft (Dec 15, 2011)

*I'll be sure to tell him that (haha)*

It WOULD seize their attention.


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## daveatc1234 (Dec 16, 2011)

In the more exuberant days of my youth, teaching in the military to military students, I snapped two students' flip phones in half and threw one out a third floor window. I had to pay for them. Childish? Yes. Worth it? Absolutely.


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## webster44 (Dec 16, 2011)

NVRob said:


> I'd love to hear you justify how lecturing is useless seeing as nearly every, if not all institutions in the U.S. use a lecture format.
> 
> With how you described your teaching style it sounds like I would enjoy it and also learn a great deal, depending on the content, but I will still argue that lectures are not useless.



Ok. We’ve gotten a bit off topic from students texting in class..

Let me tell you about the principles and techniques I aspire towards in EMS education.

Like many I’ve sat through lots of different EMS instructors. Typically I found them to be heavy on the war stories and light on the science.

When I first became an instructor I thought I was the greatest thing ever. I quickly learned though that I was horrible.  I recognized my deficiencies and made a commitment to improve. 
I hope to always improve.

My goal as an instructor is to teach students the critical thinking skills of EMS, obviously though learning the material and passing registry is what they are there for.

The most useful instructor resource to date for me has been the National Association of EMS Instructors (NAEMSE)  I took their introductory level course and it changed everything I do. 

What follows is the program method I aspire too, but, unfortunately I don’t always get what I want. As mentioned before much of the credit goes to NAEMSE

Background
I teach EMT’s at a community college. Both day and night courses. Most students have poor reading skills and little to no higher education and the age range in class is 18-55

Class begins with two night of where I bring in an outside instructor to work with the students about how to study, take notes, and retain information. I then do two nights of CPR to really hammer down that material.  
During those four night I asses all the students and then divide them into squads
In the squads each student has a role(leader,  equipment, time, assignments, community service….) They sit with their squad throughout the semester. All lab skills are conducted within the squad. The squad is required to do community service during the semester. Squad presentations are conducted regularly and everybody is required to participate.  And lastly, they receive a squad grade that combines both the affective and cognitive domains.

Each class begins with a quiz that is completed by the squad.
During class I use power point slides from the textbook provider(I want to edit and customize them more).                 I make it a point to reinforce key ideas. Then periodically throughout the class session I ask a question that requires a 1-3 word answer. Every student has a small whiteboard square. I give them a few seconds to write down the question and then raise up the board for everyone to see.                          Then at longer intervals I have planned assignments. I have the squads work on it(no longer then five minutes) and at the conclusion I allow a few of them to present.  

Everything I do is to try to engage the students in active learning and to create teamwork and the critical thinking skills necessary on the street.


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## mycrofft (Dec 16, 2011)

*I have trouble following the whole sequence, but it sounds good.*

1. You don't have a texting issue do you? (Peer pressure?).
2. Isn't it a little sad you have to use two days teaching them how to be students?

I am teaching CPR/AED/FirstAid (the trifecta), largely to students required to have it for a job, or as a mandatory refresher with their peers. I use the mandatory video, but I use the pause button a lot to freeze a "money shot" or make fun of something they are doing (such as the demonstrator actors look like Charlie's Angels in higheeled black boots, both of them).Once the class is rolling, I can get responses to questions. Except for the texters.


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