# Need help setting up a drill involving a patient with a gun



## Leafmealone (Dec 3, 2011)

Posted this on reddit also, just needs some fleshing out if you guys would be so kind.

I have been trying to work on a BLS Scenario involving a patient with a gun for the last few days now. I am trying to break away from the normal skill drills, and other run of the mill training situations to try and help members of my corp think differently about how to approach situations. So far, this is what I got. This is going to be set up in one of our bedrooms at our base as a live drill, so I can control what is set up and what needs to go. Dispatch info is as follows.
The time is 2:12 AM. Halfway through your overnight shift you get dispatched for a 38 YOM complaining of general sickness symptoms, with NFI. You note as you arrive on scene that the residence is in a nicer part of your district, but the house seems to be in slight neglect. You and your partner walk to the front door to find it open, and note that the interior is messy, and seemingly hasn't been cleaned in a while. Beer cans and empty liquor bottles litter the floor. You walk through the hallway and find your patient sitting in a recliner. You can't help but smell the alcohol wafting from your patient.
Thats where the crew takes over, and I would like for the patient to have a few oddities about him, as in not actually feeling sick, or saying things that could be recognized as AMS or non-obvious Psych.
I am currently trying to figure out a trigger for having the patient pull out a small pistol and aim it at the crew, also having trouble deciding if the patient should pull the "Trigger" (Plan on using a low velocity airsoft gun for effect) or if the crew should have to try and talk down the 'patient'.
At this point I would also like to state that I would like to have strewn various gun and ammo magazines throughout the room, but am having trouble thinking of other subtle hints to try and goad the crews into realizing that the scene is potentially unsafe. This is why I am coming to you, I want some of your imput as to what should be added/taken from this scenario, because I haven't seen one like this go by, and would like to make this work out in the best way possible so people can learn, and still somehow enjoy the drill.
TL, DR; Trying to set up an AMS Patient with gun drill. Give me ideas for triggers.


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## Chimpie (Dec 3, 2011)

Leafmealone said:


> ...or if the crew should have to try and talk down the 'patient'.



Is it part of your SOP to "talk down the 'patient'"?


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## JPINFV (Dec 3, 2011)

Unless I or someone else is a hostage, there's no reason to try and talk the patient down, and even then, whether or not I attempt to talk them down is at my prerogative, not the SOP's prerogative. Preferably, any talking down is done far away or by someone with body armor and someone else providing cover. 

Second, I'd either take out the magazines or other hints that the patient is a gun owner or run it with sometimes he has a gun and sometimes he hasn't. Gun owners are not dangerous, and I am horrified at the thought that, for example, my parents might not receive treatment because some EMT or paramedic thought the scene was unsafe because my father stores his guns in a locked display case (glass window in front so you can see the firearms). 

Another thing you can try is have a patient who is legally carrying a firearm in a situation where no one immediately on scene can take possession of the firearm. Bonus points for that one if you can find someone with a CCW holster and a firearm who is willing to allow their use and oversee it.


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## usalsfyre (Dec 3, 2011)

I really don't see much of a point in this to be honest. The proper response is for the crew to do everything in their power to get the hell out of there. 

It'd be much better to have an AMS patient in say, a house with a sounding CO alarm (a very likely scenario in an area with gas and oil heat) than "OMG a gun!" drill.


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## Steam Engine (Dec 4, 2011)

Empty holster on the coffee table? Half empty box of ammo on the floor? Obvious printing on the PT's clothing?

One of my instructors ran a similar scenario to try to gauge the students' level of observation and situational awareness. It was set up as a call for AMS / possible overdose. The students arrived on scene in a classroom and found one PT who was altered and somewhat agitated. On one of the desks near the PT was a closed pizza box, and on the white board on the other side of the room was written in large block letters "THERE'S A GUN IN THE PIZZA BOX!". Nobody noticed and continued with their assessment as usual, even as the PT tried to get them to look in the box by yelling, "I think you need some pizza...I'm gonna give you some pizza!" 

It was unrealistic, yes, but I think it was a good lesson in awareness and scene safety.


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## mycrofft (Dec 4, 2011)

*Talk to your local PD*

 They will have accurate expert knowledge for you in accordence with local standards. Do not start asking around this forum for such advice, someone will describe how to rassle the gun away or something, maybe draw their knife...


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## JPINFV (Dec 4, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> They will have accurate expert knowledge for you in accordence with local standards. Do not start asking around this forum for such advice, someone will describe how to rassle the gun away or something, maybe draw their knife...




I can find maybe a dozen Youtube videos of California officers blatantly disobeying the law in regard to citizens legally open carrying firearms. If you want actual advice on what's legal, try to talk to the local DA.


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