# May I vent for a Moment please?



## MedicPrincess (Mar 10, 2005)

As most of you have read here, I am currently taking the EMT-B course.  And I bust my butt to stay in the top 3 in my class.

So yesterday we had another test, and the youngest member of our class comes in and hands the instructor a note.  He reads it, gets a really pissy look on his face and asks her if she is joking.  She says Nope, the Dr says I have ADD/ADHD and I dont have to take my exam if I have to sit in the same room as everyone else.   We were all like      So she gathered her cell phone and went outside while we all took the test.

As we get done and go outside to wait for everyone to finish, she starts doing her little happy dance about not having to take the test.  She says, the reason she is failing the course is because she is ADD/ADHD and having to take a test sitting in the same room at the rest of us distracts her and she cannot concentrate, so the DR wrote her a note and said she has to be in a room that is just her and one instructor when she takes exams.

So I was like, "Well what are you going to do if you pass this course and get out in the field and you have a baby as your patient and the mama is screaming at you to save her baby, and the babies brother is asking you if his sister is gonna die, and the babies daddy is all over you trying to help? or What are you going to do when you have an MVC with 4 or 5 patients and they are crying, or yelling, and begging you to not let them die, and why won't you help them? Are you going to show them your DR note and ask them to be quiet because you cannot concentrate if there is more than one person around?"  

And she asks me why I am such a Bi*ch.  One of the guys in the class said I wasn't being one, he wants to know what she is going to do as well.

And if thats not bad enough, this girl had the nerve to ask us what was on the exam so she would know what to study!!!!  :angry:  :angry:   

Now what I want to know is, when we go to take the NR/State exam, will she be allowed "special accomodations" (i.e. just her and one proctor in a room) since she has a note from her DR?

For the record, I don't subscribe to the "I have ADD/ADHD whining and complaining and that is why my life is so hard, and you have to pity me and bend over backwards to make my life easy so that way I don't get stressed out  and be forced to take responsiblity for my own actions" defense.  This particular girl is the same on that told me she DOES NOT STUDY!!! She only hits the highlights 2 hours before the test.

UGH!!!  

Thanks.  I am better now.


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## Chimpie (Mar 10, 2005)

1)  Yes, you may vent.  That's what we're here for two.

2)  It sounds like your signature here on this forum should belong to your classmate, not you.    

3)  I can't comment on what National will make her do, but I wouldn't worry about her too much.  If she really is ADD/ADHD then she won't make it out in the field.  She'll crack one day and it'll all be over.  Sad thing is that it'll probably be at someone elses cost.

4)  Has she taken the state test yet?  I'll be surprised if she passes that.

5)  I don't have a number 5.  I just like making these numbers.    

Chimp


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## emtchicky156 (Mar 10, 2005)

I have to agree with chimp I highly doubt she'll make it past  the state test. As for pain in the asses every class has them. They wont be bragging about not studying and cramming for a few hours before a test when they have to retake their state and national tests.


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## TTLWHKR (Mar 10, 2005)

There is someone like that on one of the other EMS forums...

started a whole fight over becomming an EMT so she knows how to fake illness better, and says she will be a better EMT b/c she had ADD/ADHD so she can zone everyone out and only concentrate on one thing. She's also manic, depressed, on drugs, suicidal and does off the wall things to get attention like swimming hundreds of feet into the ocean and pretends shes drowning so someone will save her.

I guess she won't be a good candidate for multi-tasking? Just what we need driving an ambulance, a suicidal manic depressive person who cannot concentrate on the simplest of instructions.


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## Margaritaville (Mar 10, 2005)

EMTprincess,

If it makes you feel better...she will not last, I promise you. 

BlueEighty8 - that is one of the scariest things I heard! What the H***! I have not heard of this individual...but I would be worried about them on an EMS unit!!

Now, everyone it is my turn!

As a parent of a child with special needs...the audacity of that student makes me ill
! Please send her a message for me "Who does she think she is using a disability as a crutch." There are many people who are aware of thier disease, and who work hard to overcome and compensate!!!!!!

That little twit is one of the reasons people do not take some disabilities serious! I also blame her Dr. for allowing her to use the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD in this matter. What an enabler!!!!!

I apologize for my anger...but right now I am rather inflamed!!!!!


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## Wingnut (Mar 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Margaritaville_@Mar 10 2005, 10:29 PM
> * That little twit is one of the reasons people do not take some disabilities serious! I also blame her Dr. for allowing her to use the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD in this matter. What an enabler!!!!!
> 
> *


 You took the words right out of my mouth!

I just (re)sent my exam app for the NR test today and they do have a section if you need special accomodations to take the test, but it doesn't specify to what lengths they will go. Even if they do accomodate her, take comfort in that she will probably not pass. 

I agree with everything everyone has already said, but this in particular does piss me off. I have an anxiety disorder, and never have used it as an excuse for anything! In fact I don't even like to tell people I have it. If she is doing this in class...I bet she'll quickly lose any credit/respect that was possible to begin with in the field.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 11, 2005)

I agree that she won't make it, even if the NR/State make special accomadations for her written test.  You could score 100% on the written and still fail by not passing your practicals, and we all know that everyone can be made to fail the practicals (it's just a matter of how much of a hardass the evaluator wants to be).

Let's face it...a lot of how well you do on the practicals comes from the knowledge you gain from the book.  This knowledge lays the foundation for you to understand what you are doing, when you are doing it, and why.  For example, anybody can take vital signs if they practice it enough.  Only somebody with a good knowledge foundation will be able to take those vital signs and initiate appropriate treatment.  Her lack of knowledge will be readily apparent during her practicals when the evaluator gives her the patient's vitals and she looks at him with the "deer in the headlights" look.


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## Summit (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by EMTPrincess_@Mar 10 2005, 06:47 PM
> * For the record, I don't subscribe to the "I have ADD/ADHD whining and complaining and that is why my life is so hard, and you have to pity me and bend over backwards to make my life easy so that way I don't get stressed out  and be forced to take responsiblity for my own actions" defense.  This particular girl is the same on that told me she DOES NOT STUDY!!! She only hits the highlights 2 hours before the test. *


 I have ADD. I take offense at the generalizations you make off of all ADD suffers based on this one dumbass in your class. 

The recent rash of overdiagnosis of the disorder and the issue of ignorance of people who simply don't believe in it aside...

I am afforded separate testing circumstances in the college academic system because the schoolsystem is meant to evaluate knowledge and the atmosphere of tests and their design is the opposite of what ADD types function under. Is the system there to test knowledge or is it to test one's ability to function under a particular system?

The true answer in highschool, college, etc is: KNOWLEDGE. The educational system is a false reality created by  educators. Highschool and college are not the real world. The hardly resemble the real world at all. It would be dumb to have an ADD person tested under traditional conditions if you actually want to evaluate them for what they know and can do. That's acadamia. Accomidation is due and fair even if you don't understand it.

In EMT school, what is being tested for? The answer is BOTH knowledge and the ability to perform under a certain system and set of circumstances (ie attempting to mimic the real world). EMT school is meant to help prepare you for the REAL world so that you can function in the REAL world.

For this reason I never even considered asking for special testing environments in EMT school. 

IE, as you stated, if one cannot perform with the distractions of a classroom for EMT tests, then one will never be able to function as a real world EMT.

This is why, for the real world, people who have ADD must learn coping mechanisms.

The academic material in basic school is amazingly simple. It is nothing a slightly above average 5th grader couldn't handle if they worked at it. There is some memorization involved, doesn't even compare to a highschool biology class! ADD made demonstrating that knowledge more difficult for me under the traditional environ, but I did it without accomidations because it was what I would experience nthe real world: no accomidations. I developed and used coping methods. This made the  challenge easier. 

I should note that I took a WEMT course so the environment was even more distracting. No A/C classroom, we took tests at our campsite under our tarp on decaying wood tables with mosquitos biting and birds chirping, occaisonally having to relocate due to rain. 

Despite all that...

I got an A on every test. I got an A in the course. I never had to repeat any practical, wilderness or urban. I passed my NR easily. 

I did this despite my personal challenge of ADD and without any accomidations because it would have been inappropriate.

Because of it I was sure I was capable of being an EMT in the real world and probably a little better prepared. I'm still learning have will never stop.

And if I thought I had it tough, there is a dyslexic on our squad who just passed I school with no special dispensation.

Whether accomidation for disability is appropriate depends on the situation and application. For a job like ours, it is not appropriate.

But when I go into the college for my biology class to get my degree, I accept appropriate accomidations for the artificial environment and I don't feel bad or special.

----

Now on the side note I think practicals as done by the NR are dumb because they can be passed by wrote memorization as well and do not test an EMT candidate's ability to adapt and think their way around a problem in a real world situation. Of course it would be hard to make a consistent and fair practical that did...

----

Sorry if some of that was incoherent, Just did a 6hr transfer after posting all day.


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 11, 2005)

Summit-

If what I said does not apply to you, then please don't be offended.  It is something I have heard time and time again.  I have a daughter who is ADD/ADHD.  Her grandma spends so much time making excuses for her behavior its amazing I can get control of her at home.  My moms neighbor has an ADD kid who ran away last night.  They are so busy trying to figure out who he can go stay with for a "cool down" period so as to not upset him and make him run away again that they missed the whole point of why he ran away (he wanted a game, they said no).

I have worked and volunteered at schools, and driven a school bus.  Those kids with ADD, ADHD, and ODD are forever getting additional "chances" because "they cannot help it" as their parents will say.  

Seven years ago I was diagnosed as Bi-Polar.  I am not on meds.  I have taught myself coping mechanisms.  You won't hear me say "Oh I did that b/c I am Bi-Polar" (on a side note, I am thinking of having that re-evaluated.  The more I read on it, the more I encounter patients having an "episode" the more I see its not me.)

I don't actually think she will pass either.  It just makes me mad to no end for her to use that as her crutch, when I know for a fact there are plenty of us busting our collective a$$es and in some cases just barely passing.

And then for her to try and get us to tell her what was on the exam!!!!   :angry:  :angry:  :angry:   That was the final straw!!!


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## ma2va92 (Mar 11, 2005)

The weird of this to me...

    A Doctor wrote this for her... to work in a EMS feild


     breaking news...

       Doctor sues EMS after death of family member


     update

        case tossed out of court......Doctor had written letter giving permission for    EMT to act  the way she did ... as a result there was a delay in proper airway ... causing the death of a family member


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## CodeSurfer (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by GVRS672_@Mar 11 2005, 12:28 PM
> * The weird of this to me...
> 
> A Doctor wrote this for her... to work in a EMS feild
> ...


 I can almost guarantee you the dr. did not think of it that way when he wrote the note.  I'm pretty sure he knows that she will not make it and just wanted her to get out of his office.  :lol:


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## Jon (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Margaritaville_@Mar 10 2005, 10:29 PM
> * As a parent of a child with special needs...the audacity of that student makes me ill
> ! Please send her a message for me "Who does she think she is using a disability as a crutch." There are many people who are aware of thier disease, and who work hard to overcome and compensate!!!!!!
> *


No need to apoligize, you sid what I was thinking.

I took my state test and class tests with 1 accomidation. I was allowed to write in the test booklet  . Sounds silly. I have a diagnosed tracking disability (yes there is such a thing). Basically means that I can't go between the test and the answer sheet without having to find my spot, check the number, answer the question, heck the answer is correct and then go to the next question. this takes a minute or more a question for me sometimes. What would happen is I would mess up and be off a whole series of numbers, and it took me SOOOOO much longer to do standerdized test in school. So in high school, I got checked for ADD/ADHD and the tester did some tests for that, diagnosed it, and I am allowed to write on the test booklet, and them I copy the answers over to the key, so I can do 3 at a time, and not have the delay of taking the test.

Has NO bearing on feild skills, jsut the tests, and I'm getting the same accomidations with -P school. (Oh, they said to give me extra time, but I'm usually done before anyone else, so it doesn't help me  )

Nothing wrong with accomidations, so long as they are not nessicary or are easily reporducable in the field (Like using a dictionary on charts or something similar)

[Off Soapbox]

Jon


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## CodeSurfer (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by EMTPrincess_@Mar 10 2005, 06:47 PM
> * And if thats not bad enough, this girl had the nerve to ask us what was on the exam so she would know what to study!!!!  :angry:  :angry: *


 I really hope nobody in your class is stupid enough to help her out even more.  If the teacher gets word of that she'd prolly have some 'splainin to do...  

I've met people like this before and it drives me crazy.  I had cancer and went through a lot to overcome it, but never once during my treatment did I use it as an excuse for anything.  In contrast an old friend of mine has diabetes and I cant stand to be around her anymore. (keep in mind I know a lot about diabetes so I am not being ignorant) She makes all these excuses, changes our whole groups plans, always gets to choose where we eat... and she will go on to order a triple layer extra chocolate whipped cream with nuts cherry on top sundae at the special place we had to eat so she wouldnt have a high blood sugar.  

*pity for her pancreas*


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## Jon (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by GVRS672_@Mar 11 2005, 12:28 PM
> * The weird of this to me...
> 
> A Doctor wrote this for her... to work in a EMS feild
> ...


 I'd like to see this article

Jon


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## Firechic (Mar 12, 2005)

> *And if thats not bad enough, this girl had the nerve to ask us what was on the exam so she would know what to study!!!! *



You will meet people like her throughout life - always looking for the reward without taking the necessary work to achieve it. (In reference to this person cramming, not studying, and asking for answers - not with regard to special accommodations) 
Concentrate on your studies and your study partners who take the class seriously. I wouldn't spend the energy, time, or thought on her. 
She'll get what she deserves in the end.


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## shorthairedpunk (Mar 12, 2005)

I hate to tell you, but those of you who believe that ADD, ADHD, Hyperactivity Disorder(DC), Mania, Depression, Manic Depression, Bipolar Disorder, Obsessive Disorder, Compulsive Disorder, Homocidal Tendencies, Interpersonal Coping Disorder, or any one of the number of BS labels shrinks have put on me personaly at one time or another, dependent upon which was the rage at the time, have nothing to do with ones ability to "make it" in EMS. This girl may fail because she is lazy, but more likely than that, she will succeed and go further than any of you or me because she knows how to work the system and hide behind ADA.

I dont have a problem with special testing considerations for those who are disabled, (The last B Test I sat outside of had a person who required a reader because they were blind, figure that out).  For those who require special accomidations to be able to pass, by all means go ahead and do it. If you have a problem with special considerations then you need to be able to justify this by stating clearly how it is that it affects you in the test that they have a consideration you dont. If reality prevails you will realize that it does not affect you so therefore it is technically none of your business.

And alot of the time, people who require special considerations to overcome a setback creating a hurdle for testing tend to excell when they get in the field, people who just use things as a crutch tend to not even get to the final test, people who have these special considerations for the most part are very dedicated to whatever it is that they have taken the time and effort to get considerations for, most of the time more dedicated than anyone here.
 This girl is an exception. not a norm.

Incidentally, I sat through my classes, took my tests and then my state and got one of the highest in my class without special consideration, if i had I would have been number one. Which is irrelevant, because how well you do in class is a pointless aspect to dwell on as long as you pass, booksmart doesnt make one streetsmart.

What do they call the student who finished last in his graduating class at medical school?






Doctor


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## EMTstudent (Mar 14, 2005)

> *There are many people who are aware of thier disease, and who work hard to overcome and compensate!!!!!!*



I have ADD/ADHD also, and I am able to utilize self control in my EMT-B class.  However, I don't go around to everyone stating that I am learning disabled to get any sympathy or special treatment.  I think it's wrong for her to abuse the system that way.  Sounds like she doesn't want to put forth the effort.


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## Jon (Mar 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by shorthairedpunk_@Mar 12 2005, 04:41 AM
> * I hate to tell you, but those of you who believe that ADD, ADHD, Hyperactivity Disorder(DC), Mania, Depression, Manic Depression, Bipolar Disorder, Obsessive Disorder, Compulsive Disorder, Homocidal Tendencies, Interpersonal Coping Disorder, or any one of the number of BS labels shrinks have put on me personaly at one time or another, dependent upon which was the rage at the time, have nothing to do with ones ability to "make it" in EMS. This girl may fail because she is lazy, but more likely than that, she will succeed and go further than any of you or me because she knows how to work the system and hide behind ADA.
> 
> I dont have a problem with special testing considerations for those who are disabled, (The last B Test I sat outside of had a person who required a reader because they were blind, figure that out).  For those who require special accomidations to be able to pass, by all means go ahead and do it. If you have a problem with special considerations then you need to be able to justify this by stating clearly how it is that it affects you in the test that they have a consideration you dont. If reality prevails you will realize that it does not affect you so therefore it is technically none of your business.
> ...


 What I was saying is that if the EXCUSE for tha accomidation is that she cannot concentrate on something with someone else in the room, how will she be able to work a code? treat a multiple trauma Pt? "Guys - out of the truck, I have to get his vitals" doesn't work real well. What about documetation? Can she write a chart anyplace other than a sensory deprivation tank?

This sounds more like an excuse and crutch rather than a reasonable accomidation.

I understand what you are saying, and know sevral EMT's and Medics who have overcome worse disorders than ADD/ADHD to be the GREAT providers they are today. It is possible, but adaptations have to be made to allow the person to be FUNCTIONAL on the street.

Jon


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MedicStudentJon+Mar 14 2005, 08:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (MedicStudentJon @ Mar 14 2005, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-shorthairedpunk_@Mar 12 2005, 04:41 AM
> * I hate to tell you, but those of you who believe that ADD, ADHD, Hyperactivity Disorder(DC), Mania, Depression, Manic Depression, Bipolar Disorder, Obsessive Disorder, Compulsive Disorder, Homocidal Tendencies, Interpersonal Coping Disorder, or any one of the number of BS labels shrinks have put on me personaly at one time or another, dependent upon which was the rage at the time, have nothing to do with ones ability to "make it" in EMS. This girl may fail because she is lazy, but more likely than that, she will succeed and go further than any of you or me because she knows how to work the system and hide behind ADA.
> 
> I dont have a problem with special testing considerations for those who are disabled, (The last B Test I sat outside of had a person who required a reader because they were blind, figure that out). For those who require special accomidations to be able to pass, by all means go ahead and do it. If you have a problem with special considerations then you need to be able to justify this by stating clearly how it is that it affects you in the test that they have a consideration you dont. If reality prevails you will realize that it does not affect you so therefore it is technically none of your business.
> ...


What I was saying is that if the EXCUSE for tha accomidation is that she cannot concentrate on something with someone else in the room, how will she be able to work a code? treat a multiple trauma Pt? "Guys - out of the truck, I have to get his vitals" doesn't work real well. What about documetation? Can she write a chart anyplace other than a sensory deprivation tank?

This sounds more like an excuse and crutch rather than a reasonable accomidation.

I understand what you are saying, and know sevral EMT's and Medics who have overcome worse disorders than ADD/ADHD to be the GREAT providers they are today. It is possible, but adaptations have to be made to allow the person to be FUNCTIONAL on the street.

Jon [/b][/quote]
 Good point.

At some point, a realization has to be made that life will not bend to "reasonalbe" accommadations and you have to figure out a way to deal with it.  I know several EMT's/Paramedics that have disorders like these, and everyone of them came to that realization and figured out a way to deal with it.  They're also some of the best medics I know because they tend to work harder to get the job done.

Those that use these disorders as a "crutch" or excuse are giving a bad rep to those others that have them and are working hard to overcome them. :angry:

Personally, I might have told her everything that was on the test and then spoken with the instructor so that he could use an alternate test.  Then she would have to explain how her disorder prevented her from studying anything except what was on the previous test.  h34r:


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## Summit (Mar 15, 2005)

Hmmm... I think have to change my mind to agree with you guys... as long as its real world replicable and reasonable, accomidations for the didactic exams are warranted...

Makes me wish I'd asked if I could turn in answers on the test. I have that copy over problem too. Terrible problems for me... always had to go back through at least once to double check.

But none of that applies to this girl who is quite clearly grasping at straws to make up for her impending failure which is caused by lack of effort and true ability.


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 15, 2005)

Its  funny.  Last night we were in class, and this girl and the one next to her were chatting, laughing, and passing notes all through the instructors lecture.  Finally at our third break, when it was just him and I in the room he made a comment about all the side conversations happening while he is trying to lecture and how they are making him angry.

So I told him, "You know, I am not in a position that I have to worry about the next test.  I can score a 41 and still pass onto the next section.  But we both know the two that you are talking about are failing, miserably, and you would think they would at least make an effort to pay attention.  But thats not what has me irritated.  Whats got me mad, is it is distracting to me and I have probably missed half the lecture tonight because of it."

He smiled a little and said thats what he needed, someone who takes the class serious to speak up and say the actions of those two are affecting them.  Now he can make some changes and not run the risk of "being called into the head of Colleges Health related programs office."

So I guess we will see how things are different next class.


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