# Dead Man Removed From Ambulance, Put Back In Home



## MMiz (Oct 14, 2004)

*Dead Man Removed From Ambulance, Put Back In Home*

SAN MARCOS, Calif. -- As Natalie Collet watched her father dying in the doorway of her San Marcos home last Wednesday, she could never have predicted the events that would follow.

Paramedics arrived and worked on Ken Collet (pictured, left) for about half an hour, then put him in the ambulance and told Natalie to meet them at Tri-City Medical Center. 

"They had the door shut on the ambulance," she said.

Collet's roommate, Denise Dougherty, drove her to the hospital, where a nurse told her that her father was alive. Then, 15 minutes later, a doctor said otherwise.

"He said, 'He didn't make it. He died,'" Collet said.

[Read More!]


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## Chimpie (Oct 14, 2004)

You sure know how to pick out the articles Matt.


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## rescuecpt (Oct 14, 2004)

That stinks.  literally.


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## Margaritaville (Oct 14, 2004)

Hmm, 

Swoosh - Whats that noise? - the sound of paramedic cards flying out the window.

Clank - Clank - that's the sound of the firefighters being arrested for breaking and entering.

Oh and by the way, in my state - if you work on a patient and terminate efforts - you are still responsible for that subject until a responsible party arrives. I don't care, if there are thirty other calls that require your response - that is abandonment and dereliction of duty. You are committed to that scene. PERIOD!!!!

Here this last sound - that would be the law offices of Dewy, Cheetum, and Howe calling to offer to sue all involved for the distress imposed on the family.

I know that there may be issues with help - but your duty is your duty whether you like it or not. 

Maybe this will change some funding for departments in that area. One can only hope. :huh:


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## SafetyPro2 (Oct 15, 2004)

Well, it's simple for us. If we determine a patient is workable, we work them and transport them. We can only call a patient for "obvious signs" (which includes rigor and lividity). If we do so, we have to secure the scene until PD arrives and takes control until the coroner can respond.

Medics can call a patient with base station contact, and if they do, same applies...they wait on-scene until PD arrives.

Anyone who ends up in the back of the ambulance gets transported to the ER. If a medic calls a patient during transport, they still complete the transport.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 15, 2004)

Just playing devil's advocate here:

Assume for a minute that you're the only ambulance crew available for your community.  You're given a choice of responding to another emergency call and possibly saving someone's life, or staying out of service to essentially babysit someone that you can do absolutely nothng for.

Scenario #1: (What happened in this case) You make arrangements for the decendent to be monitored until the coroner arrives and respond to the emergency call.  Results: You get some really bad publicity, get sued by the family of the deceased, and possibly lose your license.

Scenario #2: You stay out of service and complete your transport of the deceased, during which time, no one else is available to respond to the other emergency calls and your waiting call is a true emergency that you can help.  Results: You get some bad publicity and get sued by the other patient (or their family).

Either way, it's a lose-lose scenario.


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## ma2va92 (Oct 15, 2004)

here if there is a body.. dead as a fifty year old door nail .. we place 3 leads.. confirmed... DRT.... do we stay.. NOPE.. if there is nothing else going on.. we may stay.. the comfort family if we can.. other wise.. PD stays .. till funneral home comes for transport....


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## Luno (Oct 15, 2004)

FFEMT, actually, you can be civilly sued by the family of the next deceased, however it will be unsuccessful, as an EMS worker you can not be held liable for damages from not responding.  Case law states that you can not be held liable for injuries/death from not responding, as the patient may/may not get better by you responding, however, if you do not respond, they will follow their natural course.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 16, 2004)

Luno, you make a very good point here.

I was merely trying to point out that either way it goes, the bad publicity and the costs of the lawsuit will definately have an unfavorable impact on your life and career.


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## Ray1129 (Oct 22, 2004)

> *....do we stay.. NOPE....*



 :blink:  See, as we're taught in lovely Harford County MD, if you have a dead body, it's just like evidence....keep it in the chain of custody.  We usually wait until PD arrive at location and transfer the scene to them....

Ray


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## rescuecpt (Oct 22, 2004)

Yup, you stand on scene doing the "peepee dance" until you get the badge number of the fire chief or PD that came to babysit the corpse, then you boogie.

BUT, once you start working a pt, it's yours.  So the rule is, if they look dead, they sound dead, they smell dead, and you either have standing orders or online medical control that says you don't have to work them, then don't.


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