# Shift Pay Parity



## Medic2409 (May 10, 2012)

I'm curious, how many of you have heard of, for lack of a better term, Shift Pay Parity?

This is where those who work a 24 hour shift are paid less than those working 12 hour shifts, so that at the end of the year everyone makes the same amount.  

I don't like it, at all, so, how common is this?


----------



## Sasha (May 10, 2012)

Medic2409 said:


> I'm curious, how many of you have heard of, for lack of a better term, Shift Pay Parity?
> 
> This is where those who work a 24 hour shift are paid less than those working 12 hour shifts, so that at the end of the year everyone makes the same amount.
> 
> I don't like it, at all, so, how common is this?



Our medics on our 24s are paid 2/hr less than the other medics, but our EMTs still get paid the same as the EMTs on the 12 hour shifts. But they have built in over time EVERY week, so they still make major bank over us 12 hour shifters. They also only work half as hard. While we're running our butts off all shift they're being "saved".

This is only if you're the normal EMT/Medic for the 24. If you happen to pick up a 24 because of a call out or vacation day, you get paid your normal pay. When they have a medic move off the 24 hour shift and it's open for a few weeks, it's a nice way to pad your check.


----------



## usalsfyre (May 10, 2012)

Pretty much every EMS system I've ever worked at has been structured like this.

It's one of those "don't have to like it but have to put up with it" things.


----------



## mycrofft (May 10, 2012)

I remember hearing about services way back when that would pay time and a half for evening _run_ time, and double time for time spent _on a cal_l after 2330hrs. In other words, base pay for the 16 or 24 hr shift, then bonuses for waking up and doing something.


----------



## Medic2409 (May 10, 2012)

I knew AMR Arlington did it, and just found out ETMC, at least in Waco, does also.

No, I don't like it.  As a comparison, RN's get shift differentials for working nights and weekends, but we get our pay cut.


----------



## mycrofft (May 10, 2012)

Got Union?


----------



## Medic2409 (May 10, 2012)

mycrofft said:


> Got Union?




I wish...I really do.

EMT's and Medics are being punished for working hours that others get rewarded for working.

Also, EMT's and Medics are on the clock, but not getting paid for their time.


----------



## Aidey (May 10, 2012)

We do it (and we have a union). The 24 hour car was dedicated to the outskirts of our area and had a full dorm with beds and kitchenette.  The run volume out there is not nearly as high as it is in the main part of our response area, plus they almost never had to do IFTs. I don't think anyone thought it was unfair.


----------



## Sasha (May 10, 2012)

Medic2409 said:


> I wish...I really do.
> 
> EMT's and Medics are being punished for working hours that others get rewarded for working.
> 
> Also, EMT's and Medics are on the clock, but not getting paid for their time.



How are they not getting paid?


----------



## Sasha (May 10, 2012)

Medic2409 said:


> I knew AMR Arlington did it, and just found out ETMC, at least in Waco, does also.
> 
> No, I don't like it.  As a comparison, RN's get shift differentials for working nights and weekends, but we get our pay cut.



RNs also work their entire shift and isn't a profession glorified for "earning money sleeping"


----------



## Shishkabob (May 10, 2012)

Medic2409 said:


> No, I don't like it.  As a comparison, RN's get shift differentials for working nights and weekends, but we get our pay cut.



Though luckily, your and my employer does do the $2 increase for weekend shifts.



Sasha said:


> RNs also work their entire shift and isn't a profession glorified for "earning money sleeping"



Let's be fair, agencies such as mine, you can be running the full shift, while at a rural hospital, nurses get grumpy if they have more than 1 patient taken to them in the span of a few hours.


----------



## Medic2409 (May 10, 2012)

My thoughts are that if I'm on company time, I should be getting paid.  Whether or not my job allows occasional (but not often) sleep breaks doesn't matter.  I'm there, on the clock, doing what I'm supposed to be doing, and should be getting paid.  The 24's I've worked don't leave much down time, at all.


----------



## mycrofft (May 10, 2012)

THis brings up a whole new wrinkle of firefighter-paramedic services


----------



## Sasha (May 10, 2012)

How do you figure you're not getting paid for your entire shift because you are being paid less per hour? 

You want the higher rate, take the 12s and work more days. 

You don't like it, find another job. I'm sure someone else is more than willing to take your job and not whine that they get paid less per hour with built in overtime. 

Working the 24s here is a privilege.


----------



## Sasha (May 10, 2012)

Linuss said:


> Though luckily, your and my employer does do the $2 increase for weekend shifts.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's be fair, agencies such as mine, you can be running the full shift, while at a rural hospital, nurses get grumpy if they have more than 1 patient taken to them in the span of a few hours.



I run my entire shift more often than not, and 12s turn in to 14s. Not a nurse not gonna compare us.


----------



## Aidey (May 10, 2012)

Sasha said:


> How do you figure you're not getting paid for your entire shift because you are being paid less per hour?
> 
> You want the higher rate, take the 12s and work more days.
> 
> ...



Our 24 hr shifts have always been taken by people pretty high up on the seniority list. They apparently thought the lower pay per hr was worth it.


----------



## Medic Tim (May 10, 2012)

We get paid the same wage. Both are paid 75 hours every 2 weeks. The weeks we work more, the hours go into a bank. The weeks we work less, the hours come out of the bank. Every 2 months the 12 hour shift gets 2 leveling shifts off with pay. The 24s get 1 shift off with pay. The 12 s work 4 on 4 off the 24s work 24 on 72 off. We also get a night shift differential and weekend day differential that might add 20 bucks per pay.


----------



## usalsfyre (May 10, 2012)

It is what it is, and VERY much an industry standard. It involves a large amount of money so good luck changing it.


----------



## shfd739 (May 10, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> It is what it is, and VERY much an industry standard. It involves a large amount of money so good luck changing it.



This^^^. 

We do the same thing. The 24s work so many more hours though that they come out ahead of the 12 hour guys in the end. Going to a 12hr shift from a 24hr is a cut in pay. my area doesn't have scheduled 24s so I don't care. 

I prefer 12s though as I like going home every night(no matter how late we get off) and not always feeling like I'm recovering from a shift or getting ready for a shift.


----------



## TRSpeed (May 10, 2012)

Sorry to break it to ya, but that's how it is everywhere. Our 24s get 2/HR less but get weekly OT. We also. Get DT incentives for the whole shift pretty often. 

Gotta love Weighted Avg Pay. Forgot what its called. Lol


----------



## SliceOfLife (May 11, 2012)

I never understood the whole pay drop thing.  It's essentialy a way for the company to recover some of the money that is being paid out in overtime, while still having you work the hours.

My company dosen't do this but I remember AMR did, which was union at the time.

I personaly wouldn't work for a company that did this.


----------



## adamjh3 (May 11, 2012)

I'd rather take an hourly pay cut than not get paid for 10 out of 24 hours


----------



## Medic2409 (May 11, 2012)

Unfortunately you do what you gotta do in order to keep a job, especially in this area and this economy, but it doesn't make it right.  Some don't get that it's not right, but that's fine.  I guess trying to look out for the good of the workers in the industry might be called whining...eh, who cares.

Anyways, this thread is because I was curious about how wide spread this is, since initially I thought AMR was the only one that did this, but have recently learned that ETMC and my own employer do this also.

To answer a question from earlier, how am I working without getting paid?

4 - 12 hour shifts = 48 hours per week.
2 - 24 hour shifts also equals 48 hours per week. 
If each are paid the same $15.00 per hour, the pay is equal.  Using simple numbers, this comes out to  $37,440 per year base pay, not counting overtime.

But what about the 3rd 24 hour shift that gets worked every 3 weeks?

If all paramedics are equalized out at making the same per year, it comes down to you are working a full 24 hour shift, for nothing.  Or am I missing something in how the pay works?


----------



## Sasha (May 11, 2012)

Medic2409 said:


> Unfortunately you do what you gotta do in order to keep a job, especially in this area and this economy, but it doesn't make it right.  Some don't get that it's not right, but that's fine.  I guess trying to look out for the good of the workers in the industry might be called whining...eh, who cares.
> 
> Anyways, this thread is because I was curious about how wide spread this is, since initially I thought AMR was the only one that did this, but have recently learned that ETMC and my own employer do this also.
> 
> ...



Every three weeks? It's 1 on 2 off here. One week you have 48 the next 72.


----------



## socalmedic (May 11, 2012)

we do it, at AMR the official number is 27% less hourly to 24hr shift employees. which will yield equal pay to 40hr/we and 56hr/week employees. I absolutely agree with it. I dont see it as 24 hour shifts getting paid less, but as 12 hour shifts getting paid more.

in my system we are mostly 24s with a handful of day cars. the 12s take the IFTs and post while the 24s get to stay in quarters all day. on days when there is no day shift ambulance I will see my call volume almost double. I will gladly take a $3/hr pay cut to work 10 days per month and get paid to sleep almost every night. one overtime shift per pay period more than makes up for the difference in pay.

fyi- our 24 hour trucks make $14/hr starting with no experience and our 12 hour rate is $20 w/o experience.


----------



## SliceOfLife (May 11, 2012)

socalmedic said:


> we do it, at AMR the official number is 27% less hourly to 24hr shift employees. which will yield equal pay to 40hr/we and 56hr/week employees. I absolutely agree with it. I dont see it as 24 hour shifts getting paid less, but as 12 hour shifts getting paid more.
> 
> in my system we are mostly 24s with a handful of day cars. the 12s take the IFTs and post while the 24s get to stay in quarters all day. on days when there is no day shift ambulance I will see my call volume almost double. I will gladly take a $3/hr pay cut to work 10 days per month and get paid to sleep almost every night. one overtime shift per pay period more than makes up for the difference in pay.
> 
> fyi- our 24 hour trucks make $14/hr starting with no experience and our 12 hour rate is $20 w/o experience.



It sounds as if the two are almost different jobs, so that makes sense.  But if operational need changes does your pay? If you work all night do you get compensation?


----------



## Chief Complaint (May 11, 2012)

At my job, the ALS providers on shift work will make $7500 more per year than those on day work.


----------



## 46Young (May 11, 2012)

In systems that have 24 hour and 12 hour personnel, I find it unfair that the 12 hour employee will earn a higher rate on OT shifts than the 24 hour person.

Paid-on-call, where you only get paid for when you run a call, is BS unless your company has dedicated on call shifts that you sign up for from home. If I'm required to be at a station and quickly respond to a call, I should be compensated at my full rate. If I'm on call from home, there should be an hourly or on-shift stipend and my full rate when activated. This is how my hospital works, and it works for me.

A service should pay evening and night diff, as well as weekends, basically anything that deviates much from 9-5 M-F work hours. You're losing sleep, and/or sacrificing social time when others are typically available and off of work and school. This needs to be compensated for.

People get conned all the time by focusing on the yearly salary. A $40k/yr job may be almost $20/hr for the 40 hour tech, or only $12/hr for the 56 hour sucker. This may be okay if you get downtime and sleep, but where it really affects you is in the reduced OT rate. Using the above example, $30/hr is quite a bit different than $18/hr. This is how 56 hour schedules take advantage of you. Really, this is how any schedule over 40 hours rips you off. At least I'm FLSA, so 53 out of my 56 hours are straight time, and my yearly quoted salary is quite high, and does not include that built in Ot; it's a bonus. As such, my OT rate is much higher than the sucker that works 40 straight and then 16 at 1.5x to equal the same yearly salary.

Really, a good rule of thumb to see if you're being paid fairly is to decide on a fair yearly rate for 40 hours. I like $40k to start for medics (many urban IFT privates pay this as a starting salary). Now, add on the extra hours, whatever they may be, at 1.5x, and see if that's what the employer offers you as a starting salary. This ends up being $52,480 for the 48 hour tech, and $64,690 for a 56 hour employee. This is what you _should be getting for your respective schedule, but hardly no one outside of fire actually pays this. Good luck getting night diff on top of that, too. Hence the need for multiple jobs and a lot of OT in EMS. Hence the copious turnover.

For comparison's sake, Charleston County EMS in SC starts at around $39k for both 48 and 56 hour schedules. Wake Co. in NC pays in the mid 30's/yr, but I'm not sure of the schedule. I think it's 56, but I'm not sure._


----------

