# Paramedic --> RN programs



## Carlos Danger (Nov 24, 2013)

I have a friend and former co-worker who is an RRT/EMTP and recently started a nursing program. It's not technically a "bridge" program, but it's pretty close. I thought I'd post it here:

Winston Salem State BSN program

My original nursing degree came from Excelsior, which I did while working full time as a flight paramedic. It was a great way for me to go:

Excelsior College Nursing

If you have a bachelor's degree or a bachelor's degree's worth of credits, many schools now have "accelerated BSN" programs, or "second degree" BSN programs. I've known several people go through the one at the University of Rochester, and I've heard great things about it, though it is pricey:

University of Rochester Accelerated BSN

Here is a list of other schools that have similar programs: 

List of accelerated BSN programs from the AACN


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 24, 2013)

Several of our medics have moved to nursing through the U of D accelerated program. Almost all are working in local EDs and say it was a great experience.


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## Summit (Nov 24, 2013)

There are many BSN programs that will give 3-9 credits for paramedics. Not really a bridge...


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## TransportJockey (Nov 24, 2013)

There awesome places here that will let you fast track an ADN if you have an associates in ems. Or anything else. But that's about it


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## ExpatMedic0 (Nov 24, 2013)

Great links for those who are interested. Although in my opinion, Paramedics who want to leave EMS with a bachelors degree and stay in healthcare should not waste there time with another undergraduate degree such as a BSN. I think a better option is to become a higher level provider, a mid-level, by going to PA school and completing a masters which only takes 4 semesters.  Just my 2 cents. 

Different strokes for different folks I suppose.


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## Carlos Danger (Nov 24, 2013)

ExpatMedic0 said:


> Great links for those who are interested. Although in my opinion, Paramedics who want to leave EMS with a bachelors degree and stay in healthcare should not waste there time with another undergraduate degree such as a BSN. I think a better option is to become a higher level provider, a mid-level, by going to PA school and completing a masters which only takes 4 semesters.  Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I suppose.



Well following that logic, why would a paramedic ever pursue an advanced education in EMS, which is something that you frequently endorse?

There are plenty of reasons why someone might choose to enter nursing rather than becoming a PA. Chief among them being the fact that it is entirely possible to continue working FT as a paramedic while earning your RN licensure, whereas few if any PA programs allow that option. Also high on the list is the dramatically expanded number of career options, while still remaining involved in EMS if desired. If one wanted to practice as a mid-level, one could go from paramedic --> RN --> NP without any break in FT employment, and likely get most of their education paid for by their employer. 

The primary reason I became an RN was because I planned to make a long career out of HEMS/CCT, and realized very early that there are significantly more opportunities and much better compensation for flight RN's than for flight paramedics _(I more than earned back the entire cost of my ADN in my very first year after completing it)_. Aren't many flight PA jobs out there, though.

Plus you seem to be missing the point that many of these programs don't require a bachelor's degree for entry, which most PA programs do.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Nov 24, 2013)

Halothane said:


> Well following that logic, why would a paramedic ever pursue an advanced education in EMS, which is something that you frequently endorse?



I believe I stated if someone was looking to leave EMS and had an undergraduate education but wished to remain in healthcare. I thought that was closely related to the current topic. If someone wants to become a nurse good for them, I just don't want to see anyone sell themselves short, when in the same amount of time they could be a mid-level provider. Just offering my opinion on the matter. It should be noted that PA to DO bridge programs also exist as another option above that.
If you want to go to online nurse school and get an online associates degree, that is cool to. As I said, different strokes for different folks depending on your life, academic ability, and ambition.


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## Clipper1 (Nov 24, 2013)

Keep in mind that Excelsior is not accepted in all states. 

Some states require you work as a licensed RN for x time before applying for a license in their state.

Several of the states that do accept Excelsior now will not allow licensure until at least 700 hours of clinicals are completed.   Depending on what you want to do in the future, Excelsior credit may not transfer except to another expensive private college like U of Phoenix.

Halothane still lists Fight Paramedic as occupation.  You do not automatically become a Flight Nurse with a piece of paper. Most decent flight programs will require extensive ICU experience as an RN until they can assume the title of Flight RN. Anyone telling you differently is a rare exception or just BSing you.

For almost all RN programs, all the prerequisites must be met. If your prerequisites are older than 5 years, you may have to retake them.

Accelerated BSN programs also require the same prerequisites.  Most programs will do 24 hours of clinicals per week in addition to a full class load. This program rarely allow anyone to work.

It also depends on the state you are in as to whether you will find work without a BSN especially in an ICU.  Hospitals are looking at magnet status for their nursing departments. It is rare to see an RN without a BSN working in the major hospitals in the US. With the high unemployment rate for new grads, you had better have a job signed and sealed before just getting an ADN today unless you just want the title and not to actually work as one. The job outlook is still gong to be tough for the next few years with hospitals making their departments very lean.

Don't just take random advice on this forum. Talk to the HR departments in the hospitals. Find out why community colleges are linking with universities.


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## VFlutter (Nov 24, 2013)

Clipper1 said:


> It also depends on the state you are in as to whether you will find work without a BSN especially in an ICU.  Hospitals are looking at magnet status for their nursing departments. It is rare to see an RN without a BSN working in the major hospitals in the US. With the high unemployment rate for new grads, you had better have a job signed and sealed before just getting an ADN today unless you just want the title and not to actually work as one. The job outlook is still gong to be tough for the next few years with hospitals making their departments very lean.



+1. In my area the job market is extremely competitive and a few of my friends, with BSNs, are still looking for jobs months after graduating. Most of my ADN friends ended up taking non-hospital jobs. Two of the major hospitals in the area are working towards magnet status which is making it almost impossible to get a job without a BSN as a new grad.


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## Carlos Danger (Nov 24, 2013)

Clipper1 said:


> *Halothane still lists Fight Paramedic as occupation.*  You do not automatically become a Flight Nurse with a piece of paper. Most decent flight programs will require extensive ICU experience as an RN until they can assume the title of Flight RN. Anyone telling you differently is a rare exception or just BSing you.



Huh? Where do I list that?

And who said anything about "automatically becoming a flight nurse with a piece of paper"?

You really need to stop putting words in other people's mouths, Clipper1. You have a habit of accusing/claiming/implying that people said or meant something that they didn't, and it's getting pretty old.


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## Carlos Danger (Nov 24, 2013)

ExpatMedic0 said:


> It should be noted that PA to DO bridge programs also exist as another option above that.



I have never heard of that. That is very cool.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Nov 24, 2013)

yeah I have no idea how good they are, but here is one I found the other day http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395


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## Summit (Nov 24, 2013)

Clipper1 said:


> Depending on what you want to do in the future, Excelsior credit may not transfer except to another expensive private college like U of Phoenix.


The rest of your post relating to nursing school and the competitive job market is spot on, except this one sentence. Excelsior is accredited by ACEN (formerlly NLNAC) and MSCHE (regional academic) so it should transfer essentially anywhere.


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## Carlos Danger (Nov 24, 2013)

Summit said:


> The rest of your post relating to nursing school and the competitive job market is spot on, except this one sentence. Excelsior is accredited by ACEN (formerlly NLNAC) and MSCHE (regional academic) so it should transfer essentially anywhere.



There are a handful of states that have additional requirements for Excelsior grads. Georgia, for instance, requires something like a 300 hour clinical preceptorship. Arizona I think requires you to have 1 years of post-Excelsior work experience before they'll license you. California, I believe is the only state that does not accept ANY Excelsior grads at all who graduated after 2005 or 2006. 

The majority of states view Excelsior just like any other degree program.


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## Summit (Nov 24, 2013)

I was speaking purely academically: will an Excelsior ASN degree transfer to other academic institutions for say a BSN program? It should. Excelsior grads face many challenges in many states when it comes to licensure, up to 2000 hours of RN practice in another state is required in some cases.

I think Excelsior is a great option for a select type of person with a select professional background. That is what it was designed for: corpsmen, paramedics, LPNs, and RRTs with years of experience. A working flight medic with the work ethic and learning style to match the Excelsior program is the very definition of what the program was meant to be for. That doesn't stop tons of folks going "I'm going to get my paramedic certificate, work an IFT truck for a few months, and take the Excelsior shortcut into nursing."


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## Akulahawk (Nov 24, 2013)

Halothane said:


> There are a handful of states that have additional requirements for Excelsior grads. Georgia, for instance, requires something like a 300 hour clinical preceptorship. Arizona I think requires you to have 1 years of post-Excelsior work experience before they'll license you. California, I believe is the only state that does not accept ANY Excelsior grads at all who graduated after 2005 or 2006.
> 
> The majority of states view Excelsior just like any other degree program.


California is one of a few states, about a dozen, that require concurrent clinical and didactic experiences. That's what's causing Excelsior grads and many BSN grads from the Philippines to be denied licensure as RN's. The fact that there's been a fraudulent transcript ring busted last Spring may make the California BRN look at all transcripts of many foreign educated RN's that were initially licensed after some date in the early 2000's that are up for renewal, if what I've heard/read is correct. That may cause some renewal problems if a concurrency issue is discovered...

All I know is that I'm going through a traditional program and at least I won't have this particular issue with getting an RN license.


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## Clipper1 (Nov 24, 2013)

Summit said:


> The rest of your post relating to nursing school and the competitive job market is spot on, except this one sentence. Excelsior is accredited by ACEN (formerlly NLNAC) and MSCHE (regional academic) so it should transfer essentially anywhere.



Excelsior has the same problem many private colleges have. Their individual credit does not translate easily to other colleges or universities.  Some colleges give credit for the RN license and not the individual classes.
Excelsior is willing to stir their grads to another private expensive college for easy transfer.  

An example of this for EMS might be UCLA Paramedic course. It does not give credit which is recognized by the university but has an agreement with one community college to give recognition to the Paramedic cert as credit so one can complete their degree.  Being accredited by profession and by a regional academic does not always mean the credit will equate across the country the same as a state university or community college.  There are many private programs which put out grads (Carrington, NCTI, Evergreen) which meet profession accreditation but the credits are limited for transfer.  If a state is having a difficult time recognizing a program for a professional license, chances are the colleges will also have similar reservations. 

If one has long range plans, it is best to check with a college and not just go with the word of one which does extensive expensive advertising.


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## Clipper1 (Nov 24, 2013)

Halothane said:


> There are a handful of states that have additional requirements for Excelsior grads. Georgia, for instance, requires something like a 300 hour clinical preceptorship. Arizona I think requires you to have 1 years of post-Excelsior work experience before they'll license you. California, I believe is the only state that does not accept ANY Excelsior grads at all who graduated after 2005 or 2006.
> 
> The majority of states view Excelsior just like any other degree program.



The requirements are easy enough to look up. After a few legal battles, states and Excelsior now put the requirements online and in the BON regs.

http://www.excelsior.edu/state-board-requirements


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## wanderingmedic (Nov 25, 2013)

The Maricopa County Community College System in Phoenix, AZ has a standardized Paramedic to RN program. It is a 2-3 semester program (length depends on how you do on a placement test) after you complete some pre-reqs. If you have taken college courses in anything science or healthcare there is a good chance you have completed their pre-reqs already. 

http://www.mesacc.edu/departments/nursing/paramedic-rn

I have heard great things about this program, and you get an ADN like any other RN that is pumped out of the Maricopa County Community College system. I assume this would make reciprocity easier?


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## Clipper1 (Nov 25, 2013)

azemtb255 said:


> I assume this would make reciprocity easier?



Reciprocity?  

With the completion of an ADN program you would apply to test and for licensure just as any other new grad from a nursing program.


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## wanderingmedic (Nov 26, 2013)

Clipper1 said:


> Reciprocity?
> 
> With the completion of an ADN program you would apply to test and for licensure just as any other new grad from a nursing program.



Oh dear. Yes, I know that...I meant after you license and want to work in another state with your current credentials....that's the meaning of reciprocity. 

According to the Excelsior admissions counselor I talked to a couple weeks ago, Excelsior grads cannot license in CA period, even through reciprocity. They can however work in a VA hospital in CA because the VA does not require state licensure - I just don't think that's something most people want to do. I'm assuming that going to a slightly more reputable community college to do the transition/bridge program would make it easier to move to another state and work somewhere else in the future.  

Also, I hear Lansing Community College in Lansing, MI has a pretty good Medic to RN program.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 26, 2013)

There are work arounds to going to excelsior for ADN. Work out of state 6 months and then you can apply for your CA license is what I've been told.

But yeah. Go to a real program and get it done right


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## Clipper1 (Nov 26, 2013)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> There *are work arounds to going to excelsior for ADN. Work out of state 6 months and then you can apply for your CA license is what I've been told.*
> But yeah. Go to a real program and get it done right



No, California does not accept the ADN from Excelsior.



> California Residents:
> The California Board of Nursing will not accept ADN degrees from Excelsior College School of Nursing students who enrolled on or after December 6, 2003. (March/2004)



http://www.istudysmart.com/content.asp?cid=43

Remember Excelsior also accepted  EMT-Basics into the program and finally that was discontinued.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 26, 2013)

Ah after 2004, the people I know who went through were prior to


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## Clipper1 (Nov 26, 2013)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> Ah after 2004, the people I know who went through were prior to



What was their enrollment date?

I do not advise anyone enrolling in a program like this just based on someone who might have known someone who might have been an exception. Excelsior does not have to back you up since this was stated on their website and they lost a big court battle.

Contact the BON of your state and get the acceptance in writing.


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