# EMS With Felonies



## ccc55555 (Apr 7, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I just recently started my EMT training program. However, I have two felony convictions. One for threatening someone and another for possession of a large amount of marijuana with alleged intent to distribute.

Could someone just be brutally honest with me and tell me if it will be impossible to obtain certification with these felonies? This would apply specifically to the state of California but I imagine the certification procedure is roughly the same in every state.

Thank you.


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## JPINFV (Apr 7, 2013)

There's too many intangables involved where your best bet may be to contact your local county EMS office or the state EMSA. The biggest question is going to be what codes where you charged under and how long has it been since you were convicted. The longer, the better.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 7, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> There's too many intangables involved where your best bet may be to contact your local county EMS office or the state EMSA. The biggest question is going to be what codes where you charged under and how long has it been since you were convicted. The longer, the better.



Aside from making a dirty joke about your last sentence I have to agree with everything. You may have to go in front of/write a letter to the state EMS office/ Local EMS office explaining everything.


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## JPINFV (Apr 7, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> *Aside from making a dirty joke* about your last sentence I have to agree with everything. You may have to go in front of/write a letter to the state EMS office/ Local EMS office explaining everything.




That's what she said.


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## travis23 (Apr 7, 2013)

I was under the impression that you couldn't even take the class in california with prior felonies such as yours.

I could be wrong though, the class I took was felony tolerance free.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 7, 2013)

travis23 said:


> I was under the impression that you couldn't even take the class in california with prior felonies such as yours.
> 
> I could be wrong though, the class I took was felony tolerance free.



You can take and pass the class with a felony in CA. But getting NREMT and/or state certified is a different story.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 7, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> You can take and pass the class with a felony in CA. But getting NREMT and/or state certified is a different story.



Agreed.

Here is the NREMT policy on it: http://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/policy_felony.asp

Some info on CA EMS (relevant portions highlighted in RED)

Title 22, Section 9, Chapter 6 100214.3



> 22 CCR § 100214.3
> 
> Cal. Admin. Code tit. 22, § 100214.3
> 
> ...


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## mycrofft (Apr 7, 2013)

Smells trolly around here.:nosoupfortroll:


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 7, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Smells trolly around here.:nosoupfortroll:



Based upon what?  It is a fairly common question posted here, and I have seen nothing from the OP to suggest trolling.


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## phideux (Apr 8, 2013)

In SC, when I went to school you had to have a background check before starting school. Felonies would have got you booted from the class.


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## AtlasFlyer (Apr 8, 2013)

Yeah, I had to submit to a full background check and drug test before being allowed to enroll in the EMT class at Ivy Tech in Indiana. Failure of either prevents even being allowed to register for the class.


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## AzValley (Apr 8, 2013)

Also, depending on where you do your required clinical hours, this may be an issue as well with the background check.


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## Aprz (Apr 8, 2013)

I am gonna say yes, it's likely gonna be an obstacle getting a cert, and it will be very unlikely you'll ever get a job as an EMT/Paramedic.


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## DrParasite (Apr 8, 2013)

you know what?  call me a jerk if you want, but if you have two felony convictions, find another career.  could you become a career firefighter?  what about a cop?  maybe a teacher?  

oh wait, they all do background checks to prevent convicted felons from working in their fields, to prevent from losing the public's trust.

it's time we raised our standards and did the same.


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## wanderingmedic (Apr 8, 2013)

if its worth it to you hire a lawyer and work on getting your record expunged.


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## Bullets (Apr 8, 2013)

Cant get a cert in NJ with two felonies, most squads wont accept you anyway with that kind of history as well.

find a different job


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 8, 2013)

DrParasite said:


> you know what?  call me a jerk if you want, but if you have two felony convictions, find another career.  could you become a career firefighter?  what about a cop?  maybe a teacher?
> 
> oh wait, they all do background checks to prevent convicted felons from working in their fields, to prevent from losing the public's trust.
> 
> it's time we raised our standards and did the same.



Sad to say but he could become a firefighter some places in Cali :sad:

(For those in Cali I'm not talking about the convict crews that are used).


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## TheLocalMedic (Apr 8, 2013)

Maybe he could just get another conviction and then try and get on a convict fire crew??

:rofl:


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## travis23 (Apr 9, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Sad to say but he could become a firefighter some places in Cali :sad:
> 
> (For those in Cali I'm not talking about the convict crews that are used).



:huh:  Convict Fire Crews in California? If you don't mind please explain, I've never heard of this haha, do we pay these convicts? and where do they work from


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## Akulahawk (Apr 9, 2013)

travis23 said:


> :huh:  Convict Fire Crews in California? If you don't mind please explain, I've never heard of this haha, do we pay these convicts? and where do they work from


They're from the minimum security prisons (if I recall correctly) and they earn their way on the crew. They're trusted. Why? They're "allowed" out of prison to work the fire lines and are expected to not run-off. Yes, they have guards watching them, but... 

And my understanding is that we do pay them, but it's the typical standard prison pay-rate for work done. If I'm wrong about that, well, it's only because I don't work at a prison.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 9, 2013)

travis23 said:


> :huh:  Convict Fire Crews in California? If you don't mind please explain, I've never heard of this haha, do we pay these convicts? and where do they work from



From what I understand they are from minimum security prisons and are deemed "low risk". There can be up to 20-25 on a crew. 

They are paid the normal prison pay but it's supposed to shave time off of their sentencing. 

They are used only for wildland firefighting (cutting line in non dangerous areas) and are also used to do general stuff around fire stations. This last year they were painting all the fire stations in my area. 

They are transported around in a special fire engine that just pretty much acts as a prison transport vehicle. It's got the flashy lights and the sirens..... And armor over the windows.


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## JPINFV (Apr 9, 2013)

travis23 said:


> :huh:  Convict Fire Crews in California? If you don't mind please explain, I've never heard of this haha, do we pay these convicts? and where do they work from




Here ya go.

http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Conservation_Camps/


I'm not going to complain about having an extra 1500 people available to cut fire lines to save some jackwagon's home who couldn't clear a defensible space around their property while living in the middle of no where. 



You know... it's always amazing when people assume that everyone in prison is some hardened dangerous criminal who's guilty of murder and rape. Similarly, people forget that "rehabilitation" is so important to the correction's system that, at least in California, it's even in the name.


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## Aidey (Apr 9, 2013)

travis23 said:


> :huh:  Convict Fire Crews in California? If you don't mind please explain, I've never heard of this haha, do we pay these convicts? and where do they work from



He is talking about Wildland Fire crews for the most part. I've worked with a couple and found them extraordinarily polite. I chatted with one of the guards about it. The inmates selected have to earn their way onto the crew and meet certain requirements, like no violent convictions and stuff like that. The guard said they almost have never had any issues because the guys like being outside and know that and misbehavior can lead to added time on their sentence. 

Although I do remember reading something about inmates staffing their own fire station, but I don't remember where that was.

EDIT: California isn't the only state that uses inmates as wildland fire crews. I believe most of the western states do it.


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## JPINFV (Apr 9, 2013)

Aidey said:


> Although I do remember reading something about inmates staffing their own fire station, but I don't remember where that was.
> 
> EDIT: California isn't the only state that uses inmates as wildland fire crews. I believe most of the western states do it.



My understanding is that there's a lot of prisons which have their own fire departments. There was an incident about 5 or so years ago up in San Francisco where a prison fire crew made a water rescue. 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/04/20/man-dies-after-boat-capsizes-near-san-quentin-prison/


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 9, 2013)

I've never had time to talk to any of the inmates. My only times seeing them was as I was putting my bunker gear on to go to a call. 

According to Cal-Fire's policy the "con crews" inmate workers are supposed to do quite a lot of stuff. From firefighting to community service stuff. 

All I know if they wear orange jump suits while outside and are not on a chain gang haha.

And this is their ride:


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## Aidey (Apr 9, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> My understanding is that there's a lot of prisons  which have their own fire departments. There was an incident about 5 or  so years ago up in San Francisco where a prison fire crew made a water  rescue.
> 
> http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/04/20/man-dies-after-boat-capsizes-near-san-quentin-prison/



That was the same article that I read. Someone posted it here a while back.


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## PaddyWagon (Apr 9, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> You can take and pass the class with a felony in CA. But getting NREMT and/or state certified is a different story.



During my SoCal EMT basic class if you had a dirty background check you couldn't get into the hospital ER (and presumably the ambulance for ride along) for clinical hours and therefore failed out of the class.  Other classes may be different, I can only share what I've seen first hand.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 9, 2013)

PaddyWagon said:


> During my SoCal EMT basic class if you had a dirty background check you couldn't get into the hospital ER (and presumably the ambulance for ride along) for clinical hours and therefore failed out of the class.  Other classes may be different, I can only share what I've seen first hand.



Most hospitals require a background check, there are some that don't. Most ambulance companies do not require a background check and the same with fire departments.


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## mycrofft (Apr 9, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> Based upon what?  It is a fairly common question posted here, and I have seen nothing from the OP to suggest trolling.



OK so I'm crochetty. However,

I was being kind, the alternative is that the OP has severely deficient reality-testing skills.

"However, I have two felony convictions. One for threatening someone and another for possession of a large amount of marijuana with alleged intent to distribute."

Not bondable. I'm not sure if an insurance company would want him on board. These weren't some high school kid in the restroom thing, these were deemed felonious. 

I chose to think someone was having a spoof with us. 

Or the OP only _thinks_ they were felonies, maybe he assumes so and they weren't?


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## mycrofft (Apr 9, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> I've never had time to talk to any of the inmates. My only times seeing them was as I was putting my bunker gear on to go to a call.
> 
> According to Cal-Fire's policy the "con crews" inmate workers are supposed to do quite a lot of stuff. From firefighting to community service stuff.
> 
> ...



Looks like their training area outside Ione! Almost went to work there.

They do one heck of a lot and have had their share of injuries too.


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## JoshMM (Apr 9, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Most hospitals require a background check, there are some that don't. Most ambulance companies do not require a background check and the same with fire departments.



I must work in an unusual state.  Both in Mississippi, and here in GA a background check was 100% for any fire dept.  Polygraphs are often routine during the process too.


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## 9D4 (Apr 9, 2013)

JoshMM said:


> I must work in an unusual state.  Both in Mississippi, and here in GA a background check was 100% for any fire dept.  Polygraphs are often routine during the process too.


I believe its the same in az, most, if not all, do background checks. We're moving away from poly's though, from my understanding. Too inaccurate.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 9, 2013)

JoshMM said:


> I must work in an unusual state.  Both in Mississippi, and here in GA a background check was 100% for any fire dept.  Polygraphs are often routine during the process too.



My post was about EMT students who do ride alongs. For actual employment everybody (that I know of) does background checks.


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## JPINFV (Apr 9, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> My post was about EMT students who do ride alongs. For actual employment everybody (that I know of) does background checks.




I wouldn't think that most companies in California require a background check... considering that one is required both by the state AND the DMV.


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## 9D4 (Apr 9, 2013)

Guess I shoulda read it all first :blush:
I didn't have to do a back ground check for class. When they did clinicals, they did checks. They got rid of clinicals, because they weren't giving the high school EMT-B classes enough responsibility in the ERs. Was a waste of time.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 9, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> I wouldn't think that most companies in California require a background check... considering that one is required both by the state AND the DMV.



I know it's in some companies contracts. If they actually do it, I have no idea. I know most fire departments do a full background check.


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## chaz90 (Apr 10, 2013)

9D4 said:


> Guess I shoulda read it all first :blush:
> I didn't have to do a back ground check for class. When they did clinicals, they did checks. They got rid of clinicals, because they weren't giving the high school EMT-B classes enough responsibility in the ERs. Was a waste of time.



They got rid of clinicals for the EMT class? That seems ridiculous. EMT students don't need any responsibility in the ED, but they absolutely need exposure and patient contact.


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## 9D4 (Apr 10, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> They got rid of clinicals for the EMT class? That seems ridiculous. EMT students don't need any responsibility in the ED, but they absolutely need exposure and patient contact.


Yeah, we were "encouraged" to do them, but they weren't necessary to pass. It was also a financial issue for most of the high school students. 
I agree, but from my understanding none of the community colleges around me with EMT programs do clinicals, excluding paramedic programs (EMT-Advanced is not recognized in Arizona).


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## Sandog (Apr 10, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> I wouldn't think that most companies in California require a background check... considering that one is required both by the state AND the DMV.



That would be kinda redundant, by default if you have the state card you have the background check. So I agree with you here.


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## PaddyWagon (Apr 10, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> They got rid of clinicals for the EMT class? That seems ridiculous. EMT students don't need any responsibility in the ED, but they absolutely need exposure and patient contact.



Clinicals for me involved shadowing an ER tech and helping set up leads a time or two, room prep and moving patients. The rest of the times in ER I hung out with a nurse student doing triage, I did a ton of vitals for him and helped patients in and around the staging area.  I started nervous as all get out but by the time it was over it was going smoothly and I felt confident.  I can't imagine not having this experience even as brief as it was.  Vital indeed.


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## SkyRider (Apr 10, 2013)

ccc55555: I have been an EMT, Paramedic and then an EMT again in California.  All the EMS Agencies require a background check.  All the companies, public and private, require a background check.  I obtained my EMT in 1982, my Paramedic in 1987 and retired in 1995.  In 2009 I recertified my EMT to go back into the field for experience because I want to teach EMS.  I went through hell getting my EMT Cert from Riverside, as well as other counties trying to get my county certs and obtain a job.  In 2 1/2 years since I went back to school and got my cert, I have gotten 0 calls from applications I have put in.  (Over 75 applications)

I have a misdemeanor conviction from 2006.  The conviction was dismissed and expunged from my record in 2008, but each and every preliminary check agencies do, whether field or hospital, have put my application in the round file because the background check comes up with the misdemeanor conviction based on what the original arrest warrant was.  I have contacted an attorney friend of mine and he says there is nothing he can do to get the information corrected with the companies that do the background checks.

Given that you have the conviction that includes injury to another person, it is very doubtful you will get anywhere with your attempt to work as an EMT.

I am sorry, but it will be very difficult and very expensive to overcome this.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 10, 2013)

Good answer...but what exactly qualifies you to "teach EMS" when you, by your own admission, have literally been out of the field for 18 years?


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## SkyRider (Apr 10, 2013)

Rocketmedic40.......I reread my post and nothing in there says I thought I was currently qualified to teach anything.  I said I want to teach.  The whole point of returning to the field is to start the process of teaching.  I have to return to the field, get the experience based on new protocols and regulations, then move on from there.

Please don't interject your opinions about me unless you have the FACTS correct.  It is very disturbing to be judged based something I did not say.

As a matter of fact, when I took my EMT course in 2009, and I have renewed my CPR course several times in the last 3 decades, I have always assisted the instructors with the skills portion of the courses after I have passed all my skills with flying colors.  I have not represented myself as being currently qualified to teach.


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## TheLocalMedic (Apr 10, 2013)

Wow, grumpy much?


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## SkyRider (Apr 10, 2013)

Yes


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## SkyRider (Apr 10, 2013)

http://english2k10waddup.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/meanest-dog.jpg


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## JPINFV (Apr 10, 2013)

SkyRider said:


> http://english2k10waddup.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/meanest-dog.jpg


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNNqNfQBs[/YOUTUBE]


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## SkyRider (Apr 10, 2013)

That's right.  Never get let the obvious fool you.  Always assess everything lest you have to "give little Tiffany an apology"


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 10, 2013)

Please keep this thread on topic.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 28, 2013)

*Why should your past judge your future*

Humans are not perfect. People make mistakes in life. Lets say your kids or yourself is starving you have zero dollars and no help from anyone or any organization. You go out and write a check for food. Check is returned NSF and is subsequently not paid within the states required time frame. Which in alabama is 10 days and anything over 20 is a felony. So now you have a record and are considered a convicted felon. Does that make you a bad person. One who can't be trusted. I am in that boat. I have done the scenario listed above. I told the shopkeeper that the check I handed him was worthless and he said " let's run it and see what happens". The law here says that if the shopkeeper has knowledge that the instrument can be honored then the subject can be convicted however I was and am on camera saying the check was worthless. Now will the great minds on here please explain to me how you use ones past to judge his current and future circumstances. Remember before 1970 background checks were in their infancy and companies were great, profitable and you never heard someone going postal. Fast forward to today and background checks are abundant, inaccurate and all these good people you speak of are going postal. If a pt dies under your care and was due to medical negligence shouldn't that be murder. If you fail to perform a duty shouldn't that be negligence of duties. If you fail to do a rig check should you be fired immediately and banned from operating any vehicle. In essence people are saying that once you commit a crime it should follow you forever. But please point to me where as part of the punishment the judge orders that after you serve your time that you are to report your conviction or that it should be on a background report.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 29, 2013)

Probably the part where its a felony crime...


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## dkelley5 (Apr 29, 2013)

*sentencing*



Rocketmedic40 said:


> Probably the part where its a felony crime...



No where in a judges order does it say Mr. Abc you need to report this to all employers. What i do know it said you are to serve 3 years with those 3 suspended 1 year of supervised probation. Once a person has served their time that should be it. Never again should it come up on some report.
 Some states are actually craftng legislation that once you serve the sentence that the JUDGE gave then your record is expunged immediatly. 
 But remember this murders are usually given life sentences wether it be incarceration or lifetime parole. Same for sexual convicts, who are also ordered by the judge to register with all jurisdixtions they live in r travel to. But remember the judge didnt ordered that ABC background services to report it.
 I believe our laws are foolish. The constitution was suppose to guarentee certain rights that couldnt be taken away. But they are such rules as felons with no guns laws. How can he protect his family. Should the law makers go to jail when someone kills a felon kids bc he couldnt protect them.
 I for one believe once you serve a sntence it is over and you should never hear about it or see anything about it again. I know people that committed crimes that are more honest then people who didnt.
 And a feather for your cap. No where in Alabama law does is state that police cars, ambulances, or fire trucks are exempt from stopping at traffic control devices. So should these honest people be ticketed for first offense arrested for a misdemeanor th seconf time and arrested for a felony the third timd


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 29, 2013)

The percentage of recidivism is well above 50%. I think that's something employers should know and then be allowed to decide if they want to gamble on employing a felon who has a greater than 50% chance of committing another crime. 



http://bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17


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## Carlos Danger (Apr 29, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> In essence people are saying that once you commit a crime it should follow you forever. But please point to me where as part of the punishment the judge orders that after you serve your time that you are to report your conviction or that it should be on a background report.



These are good points.

I think a good argument can be made that "permanent criminal status" is not only unjust, but that it causes more problems than it solves.

A pattern of criminal behavior is one thing. Making a few poor choices as a young person is another. 

Is society helped by creating a situation where the convict will never be able to find gainful employment? Does the inability to advance oneself make the convict less or more likely to re-offend?


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## dkelley5 (Apr 29, 2013)

DEmedic said:


> The percentage of recidivism is well above 50%. I think that's something employers should know and then be allowed to decide if they want to gamble on employing a felon who has a greater




Bc society enables recidivism. We prohibit jobs, restrict benefits and training etc. Explain this you smoke weed in one state your a felon in another you smoke weed openly and legal. Is one person an honest law abiding citizen and the other isnt.


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## Achilles (Apr 29, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> DEmedic said:
> 
> 
> > The percentage of recidivism is well above 50%. I think that's something employers should know and then be allowed to decide if they want to gamble on employing a felon who has a greater
> ...


So we should allow rapists to be school teachers? Marijuana is illegal on a fedral level. You don't like it than chabge it.


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## eprex (Apr 29, 2013)

DEmedic said:


> The percentage of recidivism is well above 50%. I think that's something employers should know and then be allowed to decide if they want to gamble on employing a felon who has a greater than 50% chance of committing another crime.
> http://bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17



Time is key here. Nobody wants to employ a felon, and yet there's a big difference between someone with multiple charges over a span of time or of recent date compared to the individual with a felony charge in distant history. People should be able to overcome their mistakes in my opinion and that's particularly important when looking at the disparity of crimes. Violent crimes are a much different animal than non-violent.


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## Carlos Danger (Apr 29, 2013)

Achilles said:


> So we should allow rapists to be school teachers?





dkelley5 said:


> *Marijuana is illegal on a fedral level*. You don't like it than chabge it.



Women voting was once illegal on a federal level.

Slavery was once legal on a federal level.

Alcohol was once illegal on a federal level.

Does a federal law automatically make something right or wrong?

Does breaking a federal law automatically make one a bad person, with no hope of redemption, ever?


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## Tigger (Apr 29, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> Bc society enables recidivism. We prohibit jobs, restrict benefits and training etc. Explain this you smoke weed in one state your a felon in another you smoke weed openly and legal. Is one person an honest law abiding citizen and the other isnt.



You cannot legally smoke pot openly anywhere and not violate state law either. This includes Colorado and Washington.


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## Achilles (Apr 29, 2013)

Halothane said:


> Women voting was once illegal on a federal level.
> 
> Slavery was once legal on a federal level.
> 
> ...



The poster used that (marijuana) as an example, that's why I said if he didnt like it change it, don't whine about it. 
Something tells me rape wont change as a felony, although I'm sure you'll try to find a way! :wacko: 
Being right or wrong is more of an opinion. 
Although I'm sure most law abiding citizens would agree that murder is wrong as is rape.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 29, 2013)

*Felonies*

Just plain and simple we put to much in trying to figure out ones past. Instead of trying to improve his future. Past shouldnt dictate futre


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 29, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> Just plain and simple we put to much in trying to figure out ones past. Instead of trying to improve his future. Past shouldnt dictate futre



In some cases yes it should.


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## Ace 227 (Apr 29, 2013)

As has been mentioned, its all about liability for the hiring company. Until we have a better definition of a person at high risk for committing a crime, "felon" is as good as we are going to get and that is the definition that will be used. Regardless of personal opinion on right and wrong.


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## VFlutter (Apr 29, 2013)

Are you able to get a state paramedic license with a felony? 

I know in my state, and many others, a felony and even some misdemeanors will keep you from obtaining a RN license. You must list all arrests and convictions on the application. If you do not list something and it pops up on their background check you will automatically be rejected. Each crime is evaluated on a case by case basis but from what I understand it is pretty much impossible to argue.


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## chaz90 (Apr 29, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> Just plain and simple we put to much in trying to figure out ones past. Instead of trying to improve his future. Past shouldnt dictate futre



We go into people's homes when they are most vulnerable. To maintain the public trust, we need to have this accountability.


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## eprex (Apr 30, 2013)

Achilles said:


> Something tells me rape wont change as a felony, although I'm sure you'll try to find a way! :wacko:



:unsure:


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## Ace 227 (Apr 30, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> We go into people's homes when they are most vulnerable. To maintain the public trust, we need to have this accountability.



This.


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## CFal (Apr 30, 2013)

DrParasite said:


> you know what?  call me a jerk if you want, but if you have two felony convictions, find another career.  could you become a career firefighter?  what about a cop?  maybe a teacher?
> 
> oh wait, they all do background checks to prevent convicted felons from working in their fields, to prevent from losing the public's trust.
> 
> it's time we raised our standards and did the same.



The union sued the RISP a few years back after a trooper was fired for being convicted of felony perjury and the union won the lawsuit.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Felonies*

As I have said before in my last post. We try to hard to figure out someones past to predict their future. Which rarely is ever true. I know people who from the age of 21 -29 commited numerous felonies. Then have been at least ten years without another conviction, but yet still find it hard to get a job. why should that be. It shouldnt. And in all states the records can be expunged at 10 years upon a judges order.
 What as a nation we should do is help someone better there future. I have a close friend that owns a company that has several departments in it spread over 5 states. He has hired several felons convicted of things from bank robbery to home invasion. Not once in his 25 year ownership has he had one of them commit a crime against him, his business or other employees. On the other hand he has one elder lady committed embezzlement, and two guys commited fraud. So should he be liable to his customers for this. These were "honest" people.
 When someone commits a crime whether it be felony or misdeameanor that is a moment in time. Am I a bad person because I wrote worthless checks to feed my family. No. I would have been if I let my family starve to death. I even told the shop keepers there was no money in the account, I am on video saying it, and it was wrote on the front of the check that the account was empty. His words to me was lets run it and see what happens. 
  Am I worse than the man that kills an intruder that is raping his wife. Murder is the act of killing someone. Only in America do we add that there is legal murder and illegal murder. So where is that line drawn. We both committed a crime. We both were defending our families. Mine against starvation, his against the intruder.
 Only is this great nation of ours do we write a constitution. And in that same document write that these rights cant be taken away. But then add an admendment to it saying that people convicted of certain crimes shouldnt possess a weapon, vote, or hold office, or obtain certain jobs. We as a nation are hypocritical. We go to our homes and teach our children that all people have rights, and that we shouldnt judge people, and that we can forgive people. But yet we as adults go into the real world and do just the opposite.
 Why cant a man that wrote bad checks ride on a ambulance to save lives. Why cant the man convicted of drug dealing work at a bank. Why cant the man that broke into a home become a car salesman. None of their crimes have anything to do with their jobs. Because someone did something 20 minutes ago doesnt mean they will do it again in the future, or on company premises or in company vehicles. 
 Just to be clear for the ones that are felons out there. Every state licensing agency has an appeal process. I know many many people that have appealed their license denial and won the appeal. I know many companies that employ felons and are happy with their conduct. I personally know many owners who prefer felons over "honest" people because the felons have already been on the other side of the law and know they dont wont to go back there. And yes I know many supervisors, medics, corporate staff, and EMT who are happily employed with AMR.

 Thanks and have a blessed day,


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## VFlutter (Apr 30, 2013)

It sounds like you are biased and have a chip on your shoulder. 

Is a person with a felony automatically a bad person? No
Is a person without a felony automatically a good person? No

Should a person's legal history be taken into account when applying for jobs? Absolutely. But as you said type and date of crime should be considered. 

Given two applicants with equal qualifications except one has a felony conviction who would a company hire? Your "been on the otherwise of the law" excuse doesn't really hold much weight to most people.


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## chaz90 (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't advocate that felons should be prohibited from all employment. People can put their past behind them, and I applaud those who do. 
Certain jobs do require people to have clean background checks, no matter the circumstances. 
Childcare, public safety, healthcare, and some financial jobs do require their employees to be free of felonies. I understand not all crimes are equal and there is a difference between someone who just did a crime vs. one who has been clean for 20 years. The line has to be drawn somewhere though. No one forced people to commit these crimes, and plenty of people in difficult circumstances still manage to keep their record clean.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Felonies*



chaz90 said:


> I don't advocate that felons should be prohibited from all employment. People can put their past behind them, and I applaud those who do.
> Certain jobs do require people to have clean background checks, no matter the circumstances.
> Childcare, public safety, healthcare, and some financial jobs do require their employees to be free of felonies. I understand not all crimes are equal and there is a difference between someone who just did a crime vs. one who has been clean for 20 years. The line has to be drawn somewhere though. No one forced people to commit these crimes, and plenty of people in difficult circumstances still manage to keep their record clean.



I do advocate that no felon should be prohibited from any job unless a judge ordered it. I can understand a murdere, or sexual offender. Because the JUDGE ordered life time parole for them or lifetime enrollment, or to be so far away from children etc. No where it judges orders does it say that john doe you wrote bad checks you cant be employed at the bank or at the Medic station. I believe the only reprecussions should be the one that the Judge Orders because that is his job to Judge


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Felonies*



Chase said:


> It sounds like you are biased and have a chip on your shoulder.
> 
> Is a person with a felony automatically a bad person? No
> Is a person without a felony automatically a good person? No
> ...



But the answer the question why should the past of those two people determine who gets the job. Ones criminal past shouldnt ever come into play once he has served out his sentence. Which the Judge Orders.
         As far as the chip on my shoulder. I dont. I am just adamently against companies that discriminate against felons. The company isnt the court, nor the Judge. The judge handed down his sentence and that should be the only punishments.
         As far as the previous post about changing the law. Most states are already considering that once a sentence has been completed that was handed down by the Judge then it should never be made public record again and for the records that have been made public they will be no longer good nor verified
       And just a kicker. I am a felon that has a TS Clearance through the Army. I had to simply appeal and won it on appeal. So why can the goverment say it is okay and not some Joe who owns a company. doest add up does it.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 30, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> I do advocate that no felon should be prohibited from any job unless a judge ordered it. I can understand a murdere, or sexual offender. Because the JUDGE ordered life time parole for them or lifetime enrollment, or to be so far away from children etc. No where it judges orders does it say that john doe you wrote bad checks you cant be employed at the bank or at the Medic station. I believe the only reprecussions should be the one that the Judge Orders because that is his job to Judge




Have you considered that your lack of success may not be entirely due to your past criminal history? Your writing, your mannerisms...frankly, I would have to think very hard before I even granted you a follow-up interview if your application, resume and such were written as they are here, or if I knew about the chip on your shoulder.


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 30, 2013)

I think you're going to have a hard time drumming up support for this issue of yours. Most of us, working in EMS or fire, have done the right thing. We've kept our records clean and stayed out of jail. Now, I'm sure some of us have written bad checks, driven too fast or broken other laws. But if were working in EMS, we managed to pass the background check. Unfortunately, you live in a state where passing a bad check is a felony. That's bad luck for you. You will have a hard time getting a job in EMS with felonies on your record.

Look, I don't know if you're a good guy or bad guy. I don't know if you're a hard worker or you slack off all day. But I will say this; If I were a hiring manager, I would see that you have a felony on your record and I would simply move on to the next applicant that had a clean background check. That's the way of the world. People in Public Safety are held to a higher standard.

Of course, you may be able to have your record expunged. If so, congratulations. Otherwise, you're stuck.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Felonies*



Rocketmedic40 said:


> Have you considered that your lack of success may not be entirely due to your past criminal history? Your writing, your mannerisms...frankly, I would have to think very hard before I even granted you a follow-up interview if your application, resume and such were written as they are here, or if I knew about the chip on your shoulder.




 Somehow you construed from my post that I am not successful. Please define successful to me. As far as my success I will list them for you. 
 I own two convience stores and co-own a Dominos Franchise w/ my brother. I Recently retired from the Active duty Army.
 Am happily married, with one kid and one on the way. Was recently hired on with the State Police will be attending training in the next month. And will be working on my EMT-P licensure.

 But I dont consider that sucess. That is me building a life for me, my wife, and my children. So that they can achieve things bigger and better than me. 

 I have walked the other side of the law. I have been through the court rooms of america, through the court rooms of the army. Mistakes are just that. They are something that had already been done and cant be undone. Never however should they dictate your future. That is my argument. I am the perfect example of why it shouldn't. 
 My father has hired felons hand over hand and never has he had any issues with them. However with the honest people three have screwed him over in the last few years. HMMMMMM. 
 I have never hidden from my employers my criminal past. I have several charges. At first glance people say wow boy you did it all. But then when they hear the truth from people, and now what is written on paper they say boy you are an honest guy. 
 My charges read 1st degree theft not to include firearms or motor vehicles. The truth I wrote a 15.55$ bad check. The next charge reads 1st degree theft not to include firearms or motor vehicles. The truth is I wrote a 10.25$ check. Counts 3-12 read 2nd degree theft not to include firearms or motor vehicles. truth I wrote 10 checks ranging from 1.25$ to 7$. count 13-14 read theft 3rd degree not to include firearms or motor vehicles . reality i charged 3.25 to a store account and never paid it. and count 15 reads Theft by taking 1st degree for taking the items outside the store for counts 1-14.
 I did what I did. I paid back the owner. However the mistake cant be undone. Should that keep me from employment never should it. Never has it. Nor will it ever.


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## truetiger (Apr 30, 2013)

I understand if you did it one or two times...it happens. But 15 times?


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Felonies*



DEmedic said:


> I think you're going to have a hard time drumming up support for this issue of yours. Most of us, working in EMS or fire, have done the right thing. We've kept our records clean and stayed out of jail. Now, I'm sure some of us have written bad checks, driven too fast or broken other laws. But if were working in EMS, we managed to pass the background check. Unfortunately, you live in a state where passing a bad check is a felony. That's bad luck for you. You will have a hard time getting a job in EMS with felonies on your record.
> 
> Look, I don't know if you're a good guy or bad guy. I don't know if you're a hard worker or you slack off all day. But I will say this; If I were a hiring manager, I would see that you have a felony on your record and I would simply move on to the next applicant that had a clean background check. That's the way of the world. People in Public Safety are held to a higher standard.
> 
> Of course, you may be able to have your record expunged. If so, congratulations. Otherwise, you're stuck.



I agree with what your saying. However if the applications was to read have you ever done anything that wasnt right. Would that be considered fair. 
 I didnt come on this forum asking for support. Someone else actually started the thread I happened upon it. 
 From my own hiring to me hiring others I have never looked at criminal history. On none of my applications at the three places I own do I even have it listed. Nor does my dad at his businesses. your past is exactly that YOUR past and has nothing to do with me.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*Felonies*



truetiger said:


> I understand if you did it one or two times...it happens. But 15 times?



They were all written within a two day period to the same shopowner. As I said in previous post. On the front of all the checks it is wrote THERE IS NO MONEY In THIS ACCOUNT. And I am on video telling the shopowner that there is no money in the account. And all checks were wrote for food to live on


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*felonies*

Doesnt make it right though. Just to make that clear.


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## truetiger (Apr 30, 2013)

Doesn't make anyone want to hire you...just to make that clear. It demonstrates a history of being irresponsible. Something not highly sought after in EMS.


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## chaz90 (Apr 30, 2013)

I think the comment about success was only in reference to your goal of becoming an EMT and working on an ambulance. Like DEMedic said earlier, we don't know you from Adam. We're speaking in general terms regarding the hiring of felons. From what you're telling us, your crimes don't sound horribly heinous. In my opinion, what you described shouldn't be considered felonious. You mentioned earlier attempting to get your record expunged, so good luck with that. I still stand by my earlier statements made in regards to the hiring of felons in general. It looks bad for our profession, even if it occasionally does result in an error on a case by case basis. Also, your stories of your father hiring felons with success and having other employees steal from them is only anecdotal evidence, like so many things on this site. Overall, a felon is more likely to commit another crime in their life than someone who has not previously been convicted of a crime. YMMV and exceptions are made all the time, but them's the facts.


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## VFlutter (Apr 30, 2013)

dkelley5 said:


> From my own hiring to me hiring others I have never looked at criminal history. On none of my applications at the three places I own do I even have it listed. Nor does my dad at his businesses. your past is exactly that YOUR past and has nothing to do with me.



You own two convenience stores and a Domino's, correct? If you choose to hire people with criminal history then that is great. I commend you for giving them a chance when many others do not. It is your decisions to trust them with your money and your business.  That is a totally different circumstance than public service and healthcare. In public service you are held to a higher standard and are trusted by people who are vulnerable. The company is not just risking its own assets but also partly responsible for the assets of their patients and the public. You are entering people's homes, handling medications and controlled substances, and driving emergency vehicles. Companies have the right, and justly so, to be as selective and prudent as necessary.  The public has the expectation that the person coming to help in their time of need is trustworthy and qualified.


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## dkelley5 (Apr 30, 2013)

*My previous statment*

Somewhere someone didnt read that I am already in public service and am a supervisor at that. I was in the Goverment service with these same felonies and retired as an E8 with these same felonies. 

I just wont people to realize that a felony is a label and only that. If you judge someone by their actions you will not make it far in life. 

Should we judge men and women who have children out of wedlock. Should we judge men and women who were adulterous. If they cant be faithful to their spouse can they be faithful to your business. 

If you deposit 1$ into a machine and two sodas fall out. Do you leave the Soda or do you at your expense return it to the manufacture. If not that is stealing.

Should you trust someone to be an accountant if he his late with his own bills. He cant pay his own time would he pay yours on time.

Should you trust people who drink alcohol. If they drink at night who is to say they wont drink during the day. 

But we dont apply the label to these people. I know many great medics who are felons. Some of the USA best spies were people who committed crime.

Remember that it was Frank Abagnale who wrote and defrauded millions of dollars from people by writing checks and being a trickster that started a company to help protect business against such. And now employs thousands around the world. But remember he is a felon by label.

Or use my life for example. I have been labeled a felon. But have made it pretty far. I am financially sound. Own two companies and co-own another. I am in the Public Service and am retired from the Army.

I am more than happy to post a background check on here that displays everything that I am talking about. I have nothing to hide nor am I ashame of anything that is on it.


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 30, 2013)

“Questions are great, but only if you know the answers. If you ask questions and the answers surprise you, you look silly.” ― Laurell K. Hamilton

I think we've beat this topic to a pulp. The OP asked if he would have difficulty in obtaining an EMS job with a felony. Many of us chimed in and, because of background checks, confirmed that this would be true. 

Questions asked and answered. Unless you have specific information on the original topic, let's let this one go.


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## Cody1911 (Apr 30, 2013)

Edit: ^^ Yep!


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## RocketMedic (Apr 30, 2013)

EMSA hired a good guy with a dui, he killed someone with negligent driving. Ruined it for everyone else with a DUI. Life is unfair.


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## Cody1911 (Apr 30, 2013)

My background check has one issue. It was when I was 17. Broken tail light lol. 

When I applied for the police academy when I was 21 the director of the academy laughed and told me my record was too bad. We both started laughing. It was good times... But my personality doesn't fit in with how the police stuff works.


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## JPINFV (May 1, 2013)

So... in California traffic offenses are criminal (infractions are below misdemeanors). Does that mean that I technically have to mark the "yes" box for convictions (well, technically it was dismissed due to traffic school...)?


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