# Wwjd



## ttoude (Apr 12, 2009)

OK, history channel brings up a good question.

U walk into a scene with a thin male suspended from two crossed wooden planks. Subject is  bleeding semi-consious 3 to 4 large spikes through each wrist and feet. 

Dirty, posteriour thorasic has full thickness LAC from neck to buttocks. 

During suspension for 7 hours was not able to take full breaths. 

Shins are broken superiour to ankles.

What Do you Do?


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## Shishkabob (Apr 12, 2009)

Before or after the spear?


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 12, 2009)

ttoude said:


> OK, history channel brings up a good question.
> 
> U walk into a scene with a thin male suspended from two crossed wooden planks. Subject is  bleeding semi-consious 3 to 4 large spikes through each wrist and feet.
> 
> ...



Take out the broken bones.  According to the fulfillmet of prophecy, "Not a bone of your will be broken."  The bones were broken on victims that would not die before the sabbath (apparently it was wrong to kill someone on the sabbath) so that the increased weight without the legs to support them would speed along the suffocation.  He died before they broke any bones.

Answer:  Wait for LEO's to secure the scene.  Hell, a mob just "forced" the government to do this and now he is being "guarded" by armed soldiers; the same ones who are using spears to poke holes in bodies and have no problem with breaking bones!

As far as the spear thing goes:  He was dead when they speared him; it was done to see if he was dead.


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## Sasha (Apr 12, 2009)

ttoude said:


> OK, history channel brings up a good question.
> 
> U walk into a scene with a thin male suspended from two crossed wooden planks. Subject is  bleeding semi-consious 3 to 4 large spikes through each wrist and feet.
> 
> ...



Are you expecting to run a call on Jesus?


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## ttoude (Apr 12, 2009)

no spear for the sake of argument. the spear was fatal so it can't be included


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## ttoude (Apr 12, 2009)

And just for clarification and to avoid a focus on religion as opposed to the patient hanging and bleeding. 

THIS SCENARIO IS LARGELY BASED ON A CENTURY OF THE ROMAN PRACTICE OF CRUCIFICTION WERE PROBABLY A MILLION PEOPLE MET THIER FATES. 

And yes the shins were routinly broken as a matter of course. except in one case but in this one the man is not Jesus. 

And now back to the patient.....


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 12, 2009)

ttoude said:


> And just for clarification and to avoid a focus on religion as opposed to the patient hanging and bleeding.
> 
> THIS SCENARIO IS LARGELY BASED ON A CENTURY OF THE ROMAN PRACTICE OF CRUCIFICTION WERE PROBABLY A MILLION PEOPLE MET THIER FATES.
> 
> And now back to the patient.....



Okay, so we are generalizing...

ABC's.  See what kind of airway we got.  Lots of O2.  Probably wouldn't worry too much about the back lacs or the wrist/ankle injuries at first.  Splint the fractures.  But the big thing would repiratory depression.  In addition to the weight of their body making breathing difficult, they were ususally given alcohol to reduce the pain (Jesus refused), which combined withthe general drain of teh entire ordeal would casue an increase of respiratory depression.  I'd also be concerned about blood loss and shock.


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## ttoude (Apr 12, 2009)

I was thinkin cardiac tamponade or pulmonary edema as the CC due to the previous scorging induced trauma (Lead weights wrapped in the whips). what do u think?


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## Sasha (Apr 12, 2009)

ttoude said:


> And just for clarification and to avoid a focus on religion as opposed to the patient hanging and bleeding.
> 
> THIS SCENARIO IS LARGELY BASED ON A CENTURY OF THE ROMAN PRACTICE OF CRUCIFICTION WERE PROBABLY A MILLION PEOPLE MET THIER FATES.
> 
> ...



If it was not a jesus scenario, why is the title WWJD?

My first thought if I ever came upon this scene...

"Jesus is coming! Quick, Hide the eggs!"


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## ttoude (Apr 12, 2009)

Althought the practice of crucifition method of torture/murder/deterance went on for years before and after Jesus death, he was the main and most prominate victim. The History channels investigation into this practice of course included Jesus, but they included several variations on the act. 

I could not help but watch from a EMS stand point and ask myself, "Could I deliver this man to the hospital alive?" 

The WWJD thing is just and attention grabber


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## imurphy (Apr 12, 2009)

If this is a call you have to have a plan for, I'm never goin to Albuquerque!!


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## CAOX3 (Apr 12, 2009)

imurphy said:


> If this is a call you have to have a plan for, I'm never goin to Albuquerque!!




Im with you.


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## JPINFV (Apr 12, 2009)

Let him die and wait three days.

/read the book.
//seen Carlos Mencia too many times.


Ok, serious answer: Remove from the timber, which would probably mean removing the nails. Bandage, pressure to the wounds. I would probably lay down a few trauma pads on the gurney for the back, but my main concern would be the patient's breathing and the nail wounds. Treat airway and breathing as you normally would (PPV if indicated, otherwise NRB). If the patient doesn't need PPV, then I would work on covering the back.


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## aandjmayne (Apr 13, 2009)

LEO would need to be on scene (make sure scene is secured .. collect any evidence.. etc.) .. First..You could probably remove him from the timber without removing the nails (cut around it..youre gonna have to saw the timber to get him down anyway... and I dont think ripping his wrists/ feet off of spikes is really called for.. could cause arterial bleed if in the right spot .. he did say 3-4 spikes in each wrist and feet.. besides.. that would take too much time trying to carefully remove them..) .. trauma dressing on stretcher.. lay him on a spine board with trauma dressings secured  around tourso (him lying on it would probably apply enough pressure to wound.)... my main concern would be the ABCs.. and fractures... PPV if needed.(NR if not). . splint fractures/ secure nails in place... rapid transport to nearest hospital..


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 14, 2009)

imurphy said:


> If this is a call you have to have a plan for, I'm never goin to Albuquerque!!



Same here!


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 14, 2009)

Actually the spear wasnt instantly fatal it is been said he lived another 1hour or so after being run through. So, if you go with that, you sit back and watch him die, there is nothing you can do.


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## Flight-LP (Apr 16, 2009)

From the new EMS translation................

Luke 23 verse 44 - It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, (45)for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. (46)Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. (47) as his eyes lay to rest, he visioned a pure and righteous hero. A man in blue with his chosen pride on his t-shirt describing his self-perceived ego. (48) "We will save you for we are the almighty EMT, protectors of the free in the land known as whackerville". With radio in one hand and shears in the other, they placed their monkey skilled hands unto him, in effort to revive and save the almighty. (49) He asked, "why do you offer such deeds", unto which they replied, "it allows us our shine in the glory, to light the skies with radiant red and blue, and to pronounce our offerings with a voice of sirens". (50)They skillfully attempted their trade, however he questioned the true knowledge of his followers abilities. "Look into yourselves", he spoke softly, "why do you do this particular way?" With confusion and dispair, they sigh and retort "this is the way of truth, for our guidance has been so spoken. We question not the word, it is etched in our memory as a stone. It is solid and it is the truth." (51) With the false word having been spoken, he became very soft spoken with sadness. He looked into their eyes and voiced his final command................




































"Wake me up when the Paramedics get here!"


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## AnthonyM83 (Apr 17, 2009)

I would request LE for crime scene and safety. FD for extrication to cut around hands and legs, if possible.

Assist with ventilations if needed (he's probably very fatigues from breathing in that position...help him out). At very least, high FiO2. Stop any bleeding that might occur with position changes or packaging.

Package on soft flatbed stretcher. If still bleeding, pad back with trauma dressings.

I would be concerned with anything resembling crush injury, as I assume there has been significant pooling in lower extremities. Have him on the monitor.

Rapid transport to trauma center.

Vitals signs. Consider fluid challenge for hypotension and dehydration (Lactated Ringer's solution). Titrate to 80-90 mmHg. Consider MAST pants. Keep warm.

Get a BGL, as I'm sure he hasn't been eating.
Splint en route.

History, Allergies, Meds, last tetanus shot

Be careful with the crown of thorns...don't want to get stuck and have an "exposure".


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## BossyCow (Apr 19, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Let him die and wait three days.





...... and if he sees his shadow..........


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## medicdan (Apr 19, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> From the new EMS translation................
> 
> Luke 23 verse 44 - It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, (45)for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. (46)Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. (47) as his eyes lay to rest, he visioned a pure and righteous hero. A man in blue with his chosen pride on his t-shirt describing his self-perceived ego. (48) "We will save you for we are the almighty EMT, protectors of the free in the land known as whackerville". With radio in one hand and shears in the other, they placed their monkey skilled hands unto him, in effort to revive and save the almighty. (49) He asked, "why do you offer such deeds", unto which they replied, "it allows us our shine in the glory, to light the skies with radiant red and blue, and to pronounce our offerings with a voice of sirens". (50)They skillfully attempted their trade, however he questioned the true knowledge of his followers abilities. "Look into yourselves", he spoke softly, "why do you do this particular way?" With confusion and dispair, they sigh and retort "this is the way of truth, for our guidance has been so spoken. We question not the word, it is etched in our memory as a stone. It is solid and it is the truth." (51) With the false word having been spoken, he became very soft spoken with sadness. He looked into their eyes and voiced his final command................
> 
> "Wake me up when the Paramedics get here!"




^^ POST OF THE YEAR!
And that's coming from a Jew!


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## rmellish (Apr 22, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Let him die and wait three days.



Dang it...beat me to it!


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## AlaskaEMT (Apr 27, 2009)

Haha, I love this thread.  

Well, he was purposely dying for our sins... God had a DNR for this guy and the scene wasn't safe in the first place.  

Good times


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## emtech419 (Apr 29, 2009)

Am I the only person that would call a helo for this guy?  Its gonna take at least 20-30 minutes to extricate from the planks, if that's not extended extrication I don't know what is!


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 29, 2009)

emtech419 said:


> Am I the only person that would call a helo for this guy?  Its gonna take at least 20-30 minutes to extricate from the planks, if that's not extended extrication I don't know what is!



Doesn't ancient Jerusalem have a trauma center that we could transport to vis ground donkey... after all the patient did walk to the scene to begin with.  Are we considering flying them to Corinth, Cyprus, or Rome itself?  And with the exception of Icarus, who has flight capabilities?


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## emtech419 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Doesn't ancient Jerusalem have a trauma center that we could transport to vis ground donkey... after all the patient did walk to the scene to begin with.  Are we considering flying them to Corinth, Cyprus, or Rome itself?  And with the exception of Icarus, who has flight capabilities?



I'm pretty sure Jerusalem didn't even have cardiac cath....


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 29, 2009)

emtech419 said:


> I'm pretty sure Jerusalem didn't even have cardiac cath....



But they did have an awesome Leporsy Wing at Jerusalem General and a great "waiting for a miricle" department at Isreal Community Hospital!  I think that your patient may have even interned at _Mercy_ Hospital.


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## DV_EMT (Apr 29, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> ^^ POST OF THE YEAR!
> And that's coming from a Jew!



I give that a +1000000000000

and im catholic... so i definitely enjoyed this post thoroughly


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## emtech419 (Apr 29, 2009)

There's a mercy hospital near my service areas, and it's a level one trauma center, so if I ever did get this patient that's probably where they'd end up going :-D


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