# Rhode Island EMT-C...challenge NREMT-I??



## bryncvp (Feb 25, 2010)

Hi everyone...quick question. I am about to start my EMT-C class this summer and I was wondering if you could challenge the NREMT-I test after taking the EMT-C class? Apparenly the EMT-C certificatioin is a little higher then the NREMT-I, but as you know, the EMT-C isnt recognized anywhere but the Ocean State. If I move, I want to be able to at least take an ALS certification with me...thats the reason for the inquiry. I have no plans to move at this time, but I would like to have a National Registry in my back pocket if that ever happens. Anyone have any ideas if you can challenge the NREMT-I test after taking an EMT-C class/test?


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## goodgrief (Mar 1, 2010)

*Other side of the boat*

I am doing EMT-I now in another state but was looking to move to R.I but cant because they wont take my EMT-I

I dont think the states should be able to do that, we need national standards and nationally recongized levels across all 50 states. 

Id contact the NREMT and see what they say. But even if you pass it, if you dont have the training your new state requires they might make you go back through class again.

how long is emt-c training?


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## sq3hjfd (Jun 20, 2010)

You can challenge the Intermediate in Massachusetts. Checkout the Massachusetts Offfice of EMS webpage.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 20, 2010)

We've had this discussed before and the general consensus was that RI EMT-C does not qualify to test for NREMT-I at either level


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## TransportJockey (Jun 20, 2010)

goodgrief said:


> I am doing EMT-I now in another state but was looking to move to R.I but cant because they wont take my EMT-I
> 
> I dont think the states should be able to do that, we need national standards and nationally recongized levels across all 50 states.
> 
> ...



Good luck with that, as long as there are state like NJ and CA it's never gonna happen.


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## Cawolf86 (Jun 20, 2010)

What's wrong with CA? We use National Registry here.


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## JPINFV (Jun 20, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Good luck with that, as long as there are state like NJ and CA it's never gonna happen.



California, you mean the state that is adapting the majority of new standards, including nomenclature, come July?


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## JPINFV (Jun 20, 2010)

goodgrief said:


> I dont think the states should be able to do that, we need national standards and nationally recongized levels across all 50 states.



A direct requirement won't ever pass a constitutionality challenge (outside the "scope of practice" of the Federal Government, so to speak) and I don't think there's enough grant funding going to the state governments to qualify for a power of the purse requirement.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 20, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> California, you mean the state that is adapting the majority of new standards, including nomenclature, come July?



So they're getting rid of the county by county certs, expanding scope to equal with the rest of the nation? That I didn't know.


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## JPINFV (Jun 20, 2010)

Actually, we're contracting the EMT-2 scope to equal the new AEMT level, however current practicing EMT-2s can opt to be grandfathered in, provided their county allows it.

The counties are still the entity issuing the certifications, however it has always been a cert from one county is good in all counties, so you've never needed multiple EMT-1 certifications (other local certifications may apply though, but that is hardly unique to California, i.e. REMAC enodorsements in New York State).

Require all EMTs to obtain a background check whereas before a handful of counties didn't require it.

Establishment of a central state registry for certifications of levels below paramedic (which has been state wide for a while now).

California EMT-2010 project page: http://www.emsa.ca.gov/about/EMT2010_Cover.asp

If the scope of practice and protocol on a county by county basis is a concern, feel free to replace the term "county" with the term "region" and then feel free to complain about every state that has region by region changes in scope and protocol.


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## bryncvp (Jun 20, 2010)

I spoke to the registry about this...the RI issue..not the CA issuse and they said that the EMt-C of RI can be a challenge to the I-85 level of certification. Even thought the EMT-C is basically the I-99 level (we even use their book in class and some classes use a medic book) the education TIME is not equal...therefore..a cardiac can challenge the I-85. I have no idea what is in store for people after the new levels come out. I am going to pass the EMT-C state test...challenge the registry 85 test and see what to do about the AEMT level. I just dont want to be screwed if I ever move out of RI..dont want this summer to be a huge waste of time.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 20, 2010)

bryncvp said:


> I spoke to the registry about this...the RI issue..not the CA issuse and they said that the EMt-C of RI can be a challenge to the I-85 level of certification. Even thought the EMT-C is basically the I-99 level (we even use their book in class and some classes use a medic book) the education TIME is not equal...therefore..a cardiac can challenge the I-85. I have no idea what is in store for people after the new levels come out. I am going to pass the EMT-C state test...challenge the registry 85 test and see what to do about the AEMT level. I just dont want to be screwed if I ever move out of RI..dont want this summer to be a huge waste of time.



In that case... People with I/85 will just have to do a short transition course to certify at the AEMT level from what I read. I/99s will either have to go to medic school or downgrade to AEMT.


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## 1badassEMT-I (Jun 21, 2010)

Why not get the I-99 and bridge to P? Thats what I am doing....but thats WV


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## bryncvp (Jun 21, 2010)

Now because the EMT-C is closer to the I-99 (and in some cases, the skills are beyond that of an I-99) the state of RI is looking in to bridging Cardiacs to the Medic level. I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but they are 'looking into it'. 

Does anyone know if these bridging courses to the AEMT will be provided online or are they an 'in class' type thing?


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## 1badassEMT-I (Jun 21, 2010)

EMT-C will not surpass the EMT-I 99 program.......if so i think they would be doing it all over the country dont you think? Just a tought....to me it is easier to go thru the I-99 program and bridge the P.......And then you get people to ask why not just go for your P and not mess with the I...... to me that was easy the cost!!!!! It was cheaper for me to get the I and bridge to the P....Does RI even have the I program there????


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## 1badassEMT-I (Jun 21, 2010)

By the way if you do move out of RI it is easier to have the I-99 than the I-85 as the i-85 is the old standard most states have gone away from....thats why they came out with I-99....


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## bryncvp (Jun 21, 2010)

RI's I is the Cardiac. The levels are Basic, Cardiac and Medic. And comparing the Cardiac to the I99...I was just taking the information from the State and te Registry...they said the Cardiac is equal to I99 and surpass it in some aspects in skills and standing orders ONLY. The class time is much more for the I99 and that is the only reason why we can only challenge the I85. From what I understand, RI is very liberal as far as their EMS goes and there are new protocols coming out to allows is to be even more liberal. No more med control for morphine...TCP is standard...etc. The only downside is that it's not good outside RI...although my instructor claims we can challenge the medic test in Florida after getting our cardiac license...apparently there are 2 medic levels in FL? The challenge would be for Medic I.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 21, 2010)

Last time I looked FL only has 1 level of medic and I don't see how I/99 or RI EMT-C would be able to challenge it ,since neither level has the education to back up the skills


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## 1badassEMT-I (Jun 21, 2010)

I see what you are saying.....however the Cardiac program is being removed from some states and they going to I-99 programs.....just make sense that you get the I-99 because outside of RI as far as that goes you are just a BASIC EMT... see what I am saying..... I dont know of any state that will let you challenge that....


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## TransportJockey (Jun 21, 2010)

1badassEMT-I said:


> I see what you are saying.....however the Cardiac program is being removed from some states and they going to I-99 programs.....just make sense that you get the I-99 because outside of RI as far as that goes you are just a BASIC EMT... see what I am saying..... I dont know of any state that will let you challenge that....



Why bother going to an I/99 level in those states? NR is phasing out the Intermediate levels in a few years to be replaced with AEMT which is close to I/85 than I/99. (and you can challenge the NR to take the EMT-I exam that corresponds with your state level. Which is why I'm an I/85 and not an I/99 since I finished the majority of medic school. NM only recognizes I/85.)


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## 1badassEMT-I (Jun 21, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Why bother going to an I/99 level in those states? NR is phasing out the Intermediate levels in a few years to be replaced with AEMT which is close to I/85 than I/99. (and you can challenge the NR to take the EMT-I exam that corresponds with your state level. Which is why I'm an I/85 and not an I/99 since I finished the majority of medic school. NM only recognizes I/85.)



I-85 is no good I-99 is better train than the 85s and you are right about the AEMT  however I-99 is easier to bridge to P than it would be to bridge from 85 to P .......besides your in just as bad of shape as the RI guy....you are limited to a few states.......I-85 program was good in its time from 85-99 .....I was a I-85 once as well....but I can do more as a 99 than 85 ALOT MORE! And the I /99 will move up to Paramedic status not move down...... the Paramedics will become what is called a Professional Paramedic or license Paramedic.....


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## 1badassEMT-I (Jun 21, 2010)

1badassEMT-I said:


> I-85 is no good I-99 is better train than the 85s and you are right about the AEMT that is for you I-85s  however I-99 is easier to bridge to P than it would be to bridge from 85 to P .......besides your in just as bad of shape as the RI guy....you are limited to a few states.......I-85 program was good in its time from 85-99 .....I was a I-85 once as well....but I can do more as a 99 than 85 ALOT MORE! And the I /99 will move up to Paramedic status not move down...... the Paramedics will become what is called a Professional Paramedic or license Paramedic.....



And for the record here is the link from NR that supports what I am saying 
http://nremt.org/nremt/downloads/Newsletter_2009.pdf


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## bryncvp (Jun 25, 2010)

Hopefully this website will clear up the debate between EMT-I and EMT-Cardiac in the state of RI. 

http://www.scannewengland.net/wiki/index.php/Rhode_Island_EMT_Levels

It explains the levels pretty well and then you can see why I am asking about challenging the EMT-I license.


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## sq3hjfd (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm absolutely sure you can challenge the Intermediate in MA with the RI cardiac. I was in the process recently. The cardiac practices at a higher level than the I in Massachusett.


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## bryncvp (Jun 25, 2010)

Yeah I knew that..I just wanted to find out if I could challenge something with the registry. I might move out of the New England someday and want to take some sort of EMS cert above a basic with me. The registry did say I could challenge the I85 exam even though as cardiacs the level of practice is higher than the I99 and much closer to the Medic level..its just the education for I99 and medic is longer than a Cardiac class.


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## feldy (Jun 25, 2010)

sq3hjfd said:


> I'm absolutely sure you can challenge the Intermediate in MA with the RI cardiac. I was in the process recently. The cardiac practices at a higher level than the I in Massachusett.



whether or not this is true...it is very difficult to find a paying position as an intermediate in MA...most companies and towns work just as a basic or just as a medic. And even if u have your EMT-I you will most likely only be allowed to work as a basic.


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## sq3hjfd (Jun 25, 2010)

Don't they ride ALS with an I and a P?


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## citizensoldierny (Jun 25, 2010)

I feel your pain, I'm a hopefully soon to be New York EMT-CC(critical care), which apparently isn't recognized by even all of New York much less the whole country:wacko:. So if I want to move elsewhere I'm looking at quite a headache too.


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## bryncvp (Jun 26, 2010)

Yeah I knew NY had that level tool (I am originally from Upstate near Binghamton). You are definitely in the same boat as I am. We might as well go onto medic school and just be done with it. ha.


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## citizensoldierny (Jun 26, 2010)

bryncvp,
Medic school can wait a bit, next move is RN for me. I've been an LPN way to long and definitely feel now is the time to get my head out of my behind .Not only will I make more money but I recently transferred to a medical unit in the reserves and RN will get me Lt. , be nice to have someone call me Sir for a change. Plus a medic school or two on the island has advance standing for RN's so it's a win all around.


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## alphatrauma (Jun 26, 2010)

*For clarification*



1badassEMT-I said:


> ...the I /99 will move up to Paramedic status not move down......



*ONLY after completing an approved transition course, and successfully passing the NR Paramedic examination*

There will be no handouts or automatic "grandfathering".



1badassEMT-I said:


> the Paramedics will become what is called a Professional Paramedic or license Paramedic.....



*They are dropping the EMT from Paramedic.. no more EMT-P*.

Licensing will up to the states, and professional... well... that will be determined by public perception.


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## bryncvp (Jun 26, 2010)

Ok..so I am going to be an EMT-C in RI...I can challenge the NREMT I85 exam..ok...does ANYONE know if the bridging course from I85 to AEMT will be something we can take online? Since we have EMT-C in RI...I seriously doubt they will have the bridging course available in this state. Probably a question to ask in the future..but didnt know if anyonehad an idea.


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## piranah (Jun 27, 2010)

the cardiac should not and will not transition to paramedic....It is hard enough teaching cardiacs that go all the way through medic school to be adequate paramedics...they should have to take the bridge to AEMT and pass all examination...the problem in RI is that the FD propbably are going to put up a big fight...and this state is run by unions....you should go to paramedic school...trust me on this..


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## bryncvp (Jun 27, 2010)

Why do you say its hard enough to teach cardiacs that go through paramedic school to be good paramedics?? I would think they would be good paramedics because they are already practicing at a high level and its only the addition of a few drugs and procedures. (Yes I know its A LOT more education and clinical time and that is a major difference..I am not down playing that at all...I respect it a great deal...and that is the main reason why medic school sounds good to me!)


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## piranah (Jun 27, 2010)

not because of the students but old habits die hard especially incorrect dangerous habits poorly tought in cardiac school...just due to the fact there isnt enough time in the class to learn well....all good cardiacs end up self-teaching post licensure...just the way it is


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## bryncvp (Jun 28, 2010)

I am not sure if I asked you this already, but can you suggest a good medic school for someone who is really busy 6 months out of the year? I know a typcial medic program lasts a year..do you know of any that would let me do it in say 2 years? The clinical time is what is going to mess me up..with my full time job it will be hard to work 20-30 hour a week to get clinicals and still have time for my real job and family. Online?


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## piranah (Jun 28, 2010)

don't do the online type, and mine took me 2 years. It was 13 months didactic and the rest clinical and testing. In my opinion anything faster is too fast, I'm not a stupid guy and to absorb all that material and actually understand it takes time. I took the EBME course and liked it a lot, very in-depth but presented in a way to create a well rounded medic. medic school will take everything for you to do, It is a commitment that shouldn't be taken lightly. At the beginning of my class the lead instructor/IC said that for the next 2 years you will have no social life, your family will barely see you, and you will think and breathe paramedicine. That is why when you finally do finish and have the honor to call yourself a paramedic is is no small event. just my take on this, do what is best for you and your situation


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## bryncvp (Jun 29, 2010)

With my job as an athletic trainer..I already have no social life and my family barely sees me..espcially when I am in season and traveling..so I am pretty sure the wife wouldnt appreciate seeing even less of me....although I love the way your IC explained the course to you. You should devote that much time to it...you literally have other's lives in your hands. 

What is EBME?


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## piranah (Jun 29, 2010)

east bay medical educators..some courses arn't as vigorous but I would have to say I am a better medic than other new medics due to the difficulty and stress but that is my own opinion.


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## bryncvp (Jun 29, 2010)

I looked at that program and it looks great....if I didnt have to work on Saturdays during basketball season. How long did it take you to do the classroom stuff?? What do you think about the Tactical program?? That looks pretty interesting too.


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## medic417 (Jun 29, 2010)

piranah said:


> don't do the online type



Why not?  Some offer quality education ( i.e. www.percomonline.com, www.techproservices.com ).  Online is not for everyone but it should not be automatically thrown out just because you do not like it.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2010)

bryncvp said:


> Why do you say its hard enough to teach cardiacs that go through paramedic school to be good paramedics?? I would think they would be good paramedics because they are already practicing at a high level and its only the addition of a few drugs and procedures.



Doing ALS skills does not equate to "practicing at a high level".   Just because they know HOW to do a skill does not mean they know when/why to use it.  

Someone that can do 90% of my skills, but only 1/3 of my knowledge base, is not an equal level provider.


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## bryncvp (Jun 30, 2010)

I didnt say Cardiacs are an equal provider to Medics..of course they arent. I was just saying that if you have a class of cardiacs, it seems like that class would be easier because you dont have to build on knowledge and skills from a 'basic' level..they are already ALS. I completely understand the 'breaking bad habits' line. That makes a lot of sense.


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## sq3hjfd (Jun 30, 2010)

Of course we know when/why to use a skill. We don't run around sticking iv's and defibrilating, and pushing drugs for no reason. What a stupid statement.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 30, 2010)

A Cardiac's knowledge in understanding the when/why/how of diseases and interventions is on par with that of a Paramedic?


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## sq3hjfd (Jun 30, 2010)

I didn't the knowledge level was the same. I said we know when and why to use an intervention. U made it sound like we just do the procedure because that's what we are supposed to do.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 30, 2010)

sq3hjfd said:


> I didn't the knowledge level was the same. I said we know when and why to use an intervention. U made it sound like we just do the procedure because that's what we are supposed to do.



Sometimes the hardest part is knowing when NOT to do an intervention. I think that might have been what he was trying to get at


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## sq3hjfd (Jun 30, 2010)

Nobody is denying that paramedic is a higher level of care. But here in RI, the Cardiac level works just fine with the longest transport being no more than half an hour.


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## piranah (Jun 30, 2010)

please do not use that excuse of a transport time of being less than a half hour that is no reason for some shoty care given....It's a pet peeve of mine. I do want to make it understood I am not bashing cardiacs, I have some fanstastic, way more experienced cardiacs I work with that I always bounce ideas off of. It all truly depends on what class they go to, truly and what year they took it. On a side note I've worked with some great cardiacs that come out of smithfield. I'm just saying I just don't like the fact that the highest level of care is not the standard here. Like I said do what is best for your position. I went from basic to medic and I did fine without the "step".


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