# Trauma bag any good?



## Av8or007 (Jan 27, 2011)

Hey

Does this bag look any good for a kit that will not be used frequently:

http://cgi.ebay.com/First-Responder...284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45e9afc244

Ive got a really awful "trauma bag" right now, it's not actually a trauma bag. I need one that can take the stuff normally found in a Primary Care Paramedic (or the US EMT-I or EMT-P) trauma/ACLS bag (minus the Rx drugs or intubation stuff). I.e. I need to see if anyone thinks this could hold trauma care gear, c-collars (a set of 3-4), a BVM, irrigation saline, a sharps container and an IV Kit.

See this video for a general idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdIc-dZB5L8

Only thing I'm thinking is that it would be nice if it had the front pocket like the ones found in some of the ferno bags, which are great for IV stuff.


Thx


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## C.T.E.M.R. (Jan 27, 2011)

I would say it should be fine for your use, Thought there are some others on more reputable sites than ebay for a bout the same price and probably more reliable.


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## Av8or007 (Jan 27, 2011)

As a medic, do you have any good ideas on how to put together a decent IV kit w/o investing in one on those really great IV bags?


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## usalsfyre (Jan 27, 2011)

pilotbaxter007 said:


> As a medic, do you have any good ideas on how to put together a decent IV kit w/o investing in one on those really great IV bags?



The bags are generally pretty cheap. If you can't do it though, take a Chux, place all your needed supplies (caths, start kits, flush and lock) in it and roll it up. Tape a 10-15gtts to a liter bag, fasten the Chux to the bag with a tourniquet.


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 27, 2011)

pilotbaxter007 said:


> As a medic, do you have any good ideas on how to put together a decent IV kit w/o investing in one on those really great IV bags?



As a first aider, what would you need an IV kit for?



> Ive got a really awful "trauma bag" right now, it's not actually a trauma bag. I need one that can take the stuff normally found in a Primary Care Paramedic (or the US EMT-I or EMT-P) trauma/ACLS bag (minus the Rx drugs or intubation stuff). I.e. I need to see if anyone thinks this could hold trauma care gear, c-collars (a set of 3-4), a BVM, irrigation saline, a sharps container and an IV Kit.



Is this for personal use or for use on an ambulance?


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## Av8or007 (Jan 27, 2011)

Just curious, definitely not ever going to use it, although i have seen AMFR's use the line and bag to irrigate wounds. Set the clamp wide open and wash out the wound. Just curious how it could be done.


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 27, 2011)

> although i have seen AMFR's use the line and bag to irrigate wounds. Set the clamp wide open and wash out the wound. Just curious how it could be done.



In your case? Not at all.  IV gear should not be in the hands of those not trained in its use (beyond the fact that the solutions are considered a prescription item).  Besides, first responders really don't have any business "irrigating wounds" since:
1. If the wound is that dirty, they need to be going to the hospital.  Running a little saline across the wound is not going to do anything but spread the bacteria around (including bring stuff that's not in the wound yet into the wound and pushing what's there even deeper).  Proper wound cleaning of a "dirty" wound needs to involve soap, solution under pressure (think garden hose with a sprayer attachment) and scrubbing.  Dribbling some saline across it is not going to cut it.  The people you saw doing this are a bunch of ****ing morons but then what do you expect from someone with just enough education to be dangerous.  LOL
2. The field (even the back of an ambulance) is not the place to be trying to decontaminate a wound.  Stick to what you are taught.  

When off duty, even if you're a paramedic, you're a first aider so you have no need for C-collars, a BVM, IV fluids, trauma gear, a sharps container, etc.  Save yourself the trouble and headaches and buy yourself a standard Red Cross basic first aid kit and a pocket mask.  Anything else is superfluous.


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## Av8or007 (Jan 27, 2011)

I was just wondering. I know you can't use it. I was just asking, didn't mean to create an issue. I was asking about the bag itself.

*I never said i would be using the IV stuff - i definitely won't be, since i don't have the cert!!!!!!!!!! *(i was just curious), but I wanted a bag that would hold c-collars because i'm planing to get AMFR cert, which, in the place i live, can do OPA's, BVM, C-collars or ANY other skill they are certified in even off duty. As with the IV IRRIGATION, i just said I'd HEARD you could do that, I never said that it was the _*proper*_ thing to do in said injury.

Srry, but plz don't flame, I know the scope of practice for a first aider or an AMFR in Canada. In canada, 0.9% NaCl is NOT a Rx only item, anyone can purchase it. You can't (and I DONT) go trying out stuff i'm not certified to do, but unlike the US, we can purchase most equipment w/o an Rx (except drugs, for very good reasons, these STAY as Rx ). AMFR's in Canada can give symptom relief meds such as ibuprofen and acetaminophen as protocol.

Not trying to flame back or anything, but i was asking about the bag, I know scope of practice. usalsfyre's answered my question.

You are right, for heavily contaminated wounds it's best to go to the emerg.


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## Bosco836 (Jan 27, 2011)

pilotbaxter007 said:


> AMFR's in Canada can give symptom relief meds such as ibuprofen and acetaminophen as protocol.



Not sure where you are at in Canada; however, I can say that in Ontario, an AMFR Certificate does NOT allow one to dispense ANY medication.  Doing so would be a violation of the Regulated Health Professions Act (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_91r18_e.htm#s27s2)

Moreover, if you examine the AMFR Text - there is nothing in the way of directing the administration medication.  If you turn to page 104, you'll notice that AMFRs may only assist with medication that belongs to the casualty, and in doing so, follow the 5 rights.


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 28, 2011)

> but I wanted a bag that would hold c-collars because i'm planing to get AMFR cert, which, in the place i live, can do OPA's, BVM, C-collars or ANY other skill they are certified in even off duty



But why would you?  That's the big question.  We often hear this sort of thing from eager newbies such as yourself.  Rule #1: The less crap you carry around with you while off work, the less likely you are to be ostracized as a "Rescue Randy" by your peers.  Also, given that you don't seem to know the regulations all that well, I suggest you be really careful about purchasing items that are to be inserted (like OPAs) which generally is frowned upon by most EMS systems. 



> Srry, but plz don't flame, I know the scope of practice for a first aider or an AMFR in Canada.



It's not flaming.  I'm just not known for being warm and fuzzy when I'm trying to give someone advice. If I were upset with you, trust me, I'd be doing the forum equivalent of wearing your spine as a necklace right now.  Ask anyone here.  This is about as civil as I get with people until they work their way into my circle of friends. 




> n canada, 0.9% NaCl is NOT a Rx only item, anyone can purchase it.



Irrigation saline, yes.  You specifically asked about IV supplies and using an IV setup for wound irrigation.



> a sharps container and an IV Kit.





> i have seen AMFR's use the line and bag to irrigate wounds. Set the clamp wide open and wash out the wound.





> You can't (and I DONT) go trying out stuff i'm not certified to do, but unlike the US, we can purchase most equipment w/o an Rx (except drugs, for very good reasons, these STAY as Rx )



IV saline (and the catheters, tubing sets, etc) are Rx items.  IV saline is a drug.  So is oxygen technically....to get _medical grade_ O2, you have to have a script.  Even in Canada.



> As with the IV IRRIGATION, i just said I'd HEARD you could do that, I never said that it was the proper thing to do in said injury.



Ever heard the old adage about friends jumping off bridges?


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## WolfmanHarris (Jan 28, 2011)

It might be useful to gain some perspective before you invest since to a certain extent I've been where I think you are now. 

You're just getting exposure to EMS and you've got visions of excitement in your eyes. You're going to take a bit of training and want all the toys so you can be ready in a moment's notice to jump into action and save lives. This desire to want to be prepared and ready to help someone in need is laudable but needs to be tempered by experience. I was in your shoes when I first got my Lifeguard quals and again when I got my FR and joined my campus team.

I then took my passion and went to school to become a Paramedic. I started gaining a more thorough understanding of the field and of how the system works. About what truly benefits a patient, how and when and you start realizing that throwing all this stuff in your trunk isn't going to do much good.

I still carry an emergency kit in my car. It's heavy on the blankets and jumper cables, toss in some gauze and bandages and a pocket mask and a few other things in case my car breaks down and you have all you really need in case you come across a scene.

If you're not transporting a c-collar isn't necessary where manual inline stabilization will do. If you're not ventilating, than manual airway maneuvers will do just as well as an OPA. If you need to ventilate and you're on your own, a pocket mask will do a better job and have less complications than attempting to BVM single responder on an unsecured airway.

Don't lose your compassion or desire to help, but ask yourself just how necessary all the toys are.

Oh and, no, that bag looks cheap. Plenty of much better jump bags out there.


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 28, 2011)

WolfmanHarris said:


> It might be useful to gain some perspective before you invest since to a certain extent I've been where I think you are now.
> 
> You're just getting exposure to EMS and you've got visions of excitement in your eyes. You're going to take a bit of training and want all the toys so you can be ready in a moment's notice to jump into action and save lives. This desire to want to be prepared and ready to help someone in need is laudable but needs to be tempered by experience. I was in your shoes when I first got my Lifeguard quals and again when I got my FR and joined my campus team.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Wolfman.  You said it much more eloquently than I could have given how tired I am.


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## Av8or007 (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, I was just curious how the iv roll could be done. I was just planning a trauma bag which is completely legal in Canada. 

Thx 4 the advice, it just seemed like u were flaming, but u weren't. Thx again


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 28, 2011)

> I was just planning a trauma bag which is completely legal in Canada.



As someone who works as an expert witness, I suggest as a way of avoiding headaches and annoyance that you follow the old advice:  "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.  Nor does it mean you have a divine mandate".  

There is no really good reason for a first responder who is not on duty to have all that gear.  If your local EMS agency thinks you should be carrying all of that, then they should provide it for you.


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## Av8or007 (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks 4 the advice, over and out.


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