# Smoker or Non?



## ErinCooley (Nov 27, 2007)

I am VERY proud to say that Sunday will be 16 weeks smoke free for me.. after 15+ years as a smoker.  It seems like 99% of the people I've worked with are smokers.  Its been a challenge but I REFUSE to start back.


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## BossyCow (Nov 27, 2007)

Congratulations.  
I quit 12 years ago and still have dreams where I'm smoking.


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## Epi-do (Nov 27, 2007)

Congrats to you!  I have seen how hard it is to quit.  My husband has tried more times than I can count.  One of the most recent attempts, he went for 10-12 weeks without smoking, and then one evening decided to have "just one" and is now back to about a pack a day.  I would love to see him finally kick the habit, but know that he won't even try again until he is ready to do it.  Something that I don't see happening any time soon.


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## Alexakat (Nov 27, 2007)

Congrats, Erin!  

Personally, I've never been a smoker...neither has my husband.  Thankfully I've never been addicted to anything in my life...(except I think I might be starting to get addicted to taekwondo!)


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## Asclepius (Nov 27, 2007)

Congrats Erin. I am always amazed, given the stuff we see in hospitals and SNF, at the number of people in this profession that choose to smoke. We have a unique perspective in respect to the devastation that smoking can cause cadiovascularly and respiratorarly. 

Our company and all of the hospitals in the area have undergone a mandatory no smoking policy, yet many people still brave the cold temperatures and long walks to go 'off-campus' to adjust their nicotine levels. I just don't understand what compels them. I have never tried smoking, nor have I ever been curious.

At any rate, congrats to all of you who have made the choice to abandon it.


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## seanm028 (Nov 27, 2007)

Congrats.  The fire department for the town where I grew up requires all new members to sign a form vowing that they won't smoke while employed by the fire department... on _or off_ duty.  Does anyone else's department do this?


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## babygirl2882 (Nov 28, 2007)

Congratulation! Beginning of December it will be 9 months for my dad...It's been very hard for him so I know what its like...Good luck

And good luck to all those working on quiting!


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## indygirl14 (Nov 28, 2007)

seanm028 said:


> Congrats.  The fire department for the town where I grew up requires all new members to sign a form vowing that they won't smoke while employed by the fire department... on _or off_ duty.  Does anyone else's department do this?



I wish more fire departments would do that...I think it sets a horrible example to drive past a FD and you see all of the guys (and girls) standing outside, lighting up...


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## katgrl2003 (Nov 28, 2007)

I can count on one hand the number of cigarettes I've had.  And each time, my partner found out, and smacked the back of my head.  Considering we both have asthma, I think he had good reason!

-Kat


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## reaper (Nov 28, 2007)

Still do, enjoy it and ain't gonna quit! (just Yet)

Only vice I have. Don't drink, no Drugs, and don't gamble. I can allow myself the pleasure, It's my right.

Now, I know and agree that it is bad for you and I discourage anyone from starting. But, for me It is still enjoyable. The day it is not, I will quit. I did quit for 2 years once before, but started back up again.


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## Alexakat (Nov 28, 2007)

seanm028 said:


> Congrats.  The fire department for the town where I grew up requires all new members to sign a form vowing that they won't smoke while employed by the fire department... on _or off_ duty.  Does anyone else's department do this?



There is a 1 department in coastal Virginia that requires this...(my sis is a FF/Paramedic in this department).  I think there are others around here, but I am not sure how many.

I agree about people driving by the station & seeing people standing outside the bays smoking...unfortunately, at our rescue squad, that happens.

The hospital (& health system as a whole) where I work is going "tobacco-free" on July 4th of 2008.  Believe it or not, they are saying that smoking in one's car out in the parking lots will even be prohibited (if the car is parked on hospital property).  I have no idea how they will enforce this.  There are mixed feelings about this, of course.  They are starting to advertise smoking cessation programs/resources for the employees, but it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

ps  Virginia is "big" tobacco country - & the home of Philip Morris!


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## kashton (Nov 28, 2007)

Yep, it's strange that about %50 of the people I have worked with during my EMT Basic and Paramedic clinical times have been smoking. I don't smoke as I find it smells/tastes awful and makes my throat and lungs hurt, not to mention the physically harmful aspects of it.


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## Onceamedic (Nov 28, 2007)

I quit once for 7 years... 7 years without a puff, then had a puff - within a couple of months I was back to a pack a day.  I smoked for 10 years and finally quit again 2 years, 3 months, 28 days, 12 hours and 4 minutes ago...   don't miss it a bit 

Not true - I miss it every day.  I would smoke again in a heartbeat if I didn't know that it will kill me - slowly, painfully and before my time - after slowly sucking the joy out of my life first.  I tell the junkie that lives in my head that when we turn 80, we will start smoking again.  That seems to placate her.
I wasn't "ready" to quit.  I'm still not "ready"- but its just something that had to be done.

Good luck to all you who have quit..  and those of you who do it because you enjoy it so much - it's not worth it.


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## ErinCooley (Nov 28, 2007)

Kaisu said:


> I quit once for 7 years... 7 years without a puff, then had a puff - within a couple of months I was back to a pack a day.  I smoked for 10 years and finally quit again 2 years, 3 months, 28 days, 12 hours and 4 minutes ago...   don't miss it a bit
> 
> Not true - I miss it every day.  I would smoke again in a heartbeat if I didn't know that it will kill me - slowly, painfully and before my time - after slowly sucking the joy out of my life first.  I tell the junkie that lives in my head that when we turn 80, we will start smoking again.  That seems to placate her.
> I wasn't "ready" to quit.  I'm still not "ready"- but its just something that had to be done.
> ...




GIRLLLLLL, I hear ya.  I would totally smoke a cigarette the size of a coke bottle right about now.  GAH, I miss it sooo much.  I stopped for my kids mainly.  One day, a week or 2 into being smoke free, my 4 year old said "Momma, you smell so good.  You smell like peaches"  (it was the first time he had actually smelled my shampoo since he was 15 months old and I started back after giving birth to his sister)  That alone has been enough to keep me from smoking... that and we are about to have a vasectomy reversal and hopefully will get pregnant soon!!


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## enjoynz (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm lucky, I never started smoking. Most of my school friends did though.
The EMT-I's I crew with both smoke.
In fact, after a rather long unsuccessful cardiac arrest call out,we went back to the station and both the EMT-I's and EMT-P that attended it, lite up straight away. I looked at them all and said prehaps I should start, Joke.:huh::excl: I made the coffee's instead!
I've had lots of friend's go cold turkey to stop, but if they are out socially and others are smoking, they can't help themselves, but have one!

Cheers Enjoynz


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## Flight-LP (Nov 28, 2007)

Alexakat said:


> The hospital (& health system as a whole) where I work is going "tobacco-free" on July 4th of 2008.  Believe it or not, they are saying that smoking in one's car out in the parking lots will even be prohibited (if the car is parked on hospital property).  I have no idea how they will enforce this.  There are mixed feelings about this, of course.  They are starting to advertise smoking cessation programs/resources for the employees, but it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.



It is actually pretty easy, if you smoke, you get cited. Almost all hospitals in my area are completely tobacco free. PTs., family, and staff. If a staff member is busted using tobacco on campus, they are terminated, no questions asked. Family and pts. are warned, then cited by security and or local PD. It has worked well for several years now, and it is nice not having to walk through a smoke cloud to enter the ER!


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## Asclepius (Nov 28, 2007)

hmmm....I wonder what the 'other' is supposed to imply in the poll...


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## Meursault (Nov 28, 2007)

Congratulations!
I'm about a pack-a-year smoker, and only because Djarum Blacks are so tasty.


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## VentMedic (Nov 28, 2007)

Asclepius said:


> hmmm....I wonder what the 'other' is supposed to imply in the poll...



Some of my patients who are self stated "non-smokers" make the claim that pipes, cigars and of course not inhaling are not considered  smoking.  That is how they explain it to the Respiratory Therapist who is at their bedside for some reason. 




> Originally Posted by Alexakat
> The hospital (& health system as a whole) where I work is going "tobacco-free" on July 4th of 2008. Believe it or not, they are saying that smoking in one's car out in the parking lots will even be prohibited (if the car is parked on hospital property). I have no idea how they will enforce this. There are mixed feelings about this, of course. They are starting to advertise smoking cessation programs/resources for the employees, but it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.



I posted a thread earlier this year about a hospital in Florida that will not hire smokers. That program has worked very well and is now expanding to other hospitals.  Of course, this is nothing new for other industries which already have had these policies in place for a while.  

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4953&highlight=smoking+hospital

*Congratulations to all of you who have quit!*


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## yay4stress (Nov 28, 2007)

The big university hospital chain around here is all smoke free; staff, visitor and pt.  The hospital where I work is smoke free on campus, and will soon (1/1/08) be smoke free period for staff.  They'll even be serving random urine(?) tests and if nicotine shows up you get fired.

I started smoking at age 14, and quit one year later, although my parents may have had something to do with that 

I still don't smoke though, all these years later, nor do I intend to start.  I dislike far too much the elements of hypocrisy involved in any health care professional who smokes, and since I want to go to med school...

Congrats to all who have quit!


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## ErinCooley (Nov 28, 2007)

PS... the other category is for those "occasional" beer drinking smokers..


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## hitechredneckemt (Nov 29, 2007)

Congrats Erin hang in there it will get a little easier


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## wolfwyndd (Nov 30, 2007)

I said yes for now, but that may be changing soon.  I'm currently looking into some of the stop smoking programs in the area, all of which are actually covered by my health insurance (happily).  I've also got a doctors appt the day after Christmas to discuss the possibility of whether I can get whatever perscription is available to stop smoking AND I have an accupuncture appt to see what options I have available with her.  I've had two former smokers tell me they stopped with the assistance of accupuncture.


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## NJN (Nov 30, 2007)

Walking into the ER and going thru a cloud of smoke isnt nice. Which is when were hanging round after a call and either RNs, MDs, medics are lighting up and when asked do i smoke i make the joke "I'm a second hand smoker", which usually gets a laugh. I never have and hope i never will touch tobacco in my life. Just walking by make my throat itch.


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## medicdan (Dec 1, 2007)

At the fire department I am affiliated with, the FFs dont smoke, but dip (chewing tobacco), which is better and worse in some ways. 
In Israel, absolutely everyone smokes. Its disgusting, but hysterical. Teenagers, college kids, medics (EMTs), Paramedics, MDs, Nurses, Patients (whew!), everyone.
I have no reason to touch the stuff-- no drive for addiction or bad lungs at this point in my life.


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## jordanfstop (Dec 1, 2007)

I'm a social smoker or I'll smoke when I'm bored. I usually go through a pack every two or three weeks, which at least five of them are handed out to people who ask for them. I personally don't find it too weird for EMS personnel to smoke (my response is "Hey! At least we're not respiratory therapists/cardiologists!" 

Now when EMS personnel don't wear a seatbelt or drive drunk. . . that's when I think it's one of the stupidest things somebody can do. (Most of us don't see a direct cause of smoking [yes, we have COPD and CHF PTs however, it's not as bad as a head through a windshield.)


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## medic001918 (Dec 1, 2007)

jordanfstop said:


> I'm a social smoker or I'll smoke when I'm bored. I usually go through a pack every two or three weeks, which at least five of them are handed out to people who ask for them. I personally don't find it too weird for EMS personnel to smoke (my response is "Hey! At least we're not respiratory therapists/cardiologists!"
> 
> Now when EMS personnel don't wear a seatbelt or drive drunk. . . that's when I think it's one of the stupidest things somebody can do. (Most of us don't see a direct cause of smoking [yes, we have COPD and CHF PTs however, it's not as bad as a head through a windshield.)



I'm not a smoker myself, but I disagree that we don't see the effects of smoking.  I don't know what level of provider you are, but I can tell when I intubate someone if they are a smoker or not.  And we do have COPD patient's and COPD patient's which in my opinion is worse.  That's a long, slow and painful death or injury.  At least with a head through the windshield, it's generally over rather quickly.  I don't advocate drinking and driving either...especially since I don't drink at all any more myself.  But to say we don't see the effects is a generally inaccurate impression in my opinion.

Shane
NREMT-P


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## seanm028 (Dec 1, 2007)

medic001918 said:


> I'm not a smoker myself, but I disagree that we don't see the effects of smoking.  I don't know what level of provider you are, but I can tell when I intubate someone if they are a smoker or not.  And we do have COPD patient's and COPD patient's which in my opinion is worse.  That's a long, slow and painful death or injury.  At least with a head through the windshield, it's generally over rather quickly.  I don't advocate drinking and driving either...especially since I don't drink at all any more myself.  But to say we don't see the effects is a generally inaccurate impression in my opinion.
> 
> Shane
> NREMT-P



I also think that just because we don't see the effects means it's more acceptable to smoke.  With internet and other forms of communication these days, anyone can find descriptions, accounts, and pictures of what smoking does to you at any time.  I don't think we should be held to a different standard than respiratory therapists/cardiologists, nor do I think healthcare professionals should be held to different standards than the rest of the world.  There's no excuse any more, unless you live in a third-world country and truly have never been educated about the effects of smoking.


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## crash_cart (Dec 4, 2007)

I'll have a cigar every now and then.  I like a good stogie on occasion, and no-it can't be flavored or from a gas station.


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## eggshen (Dec 4, 2007)

Pack a day if I need it or not.

Egg


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## Tincanfireman (Dec 5, 2007)

Neither my wife or I smoke, and never have. Still, two of my three sons do.  They have both tried to quit many times, but tell me it's so unbelievably hard to carry through.  We were talking about it one time and I told them "Just don't do it. Stop, and just don't start; it can't be that hard now, can it?" My son looked down at my gnawed fingernails and said "then why can't you stop? Just stop, and don't start again. It can't be that hard, can it?"  Ouch, and touche'.  It was only then that I began to fathom the challenges of quitting, and I have tremendous respect for anyone who can.  Good luck, Erin!!


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## MrUgly (Dec 10, 2007)

I was a 2 1/2 pack a day smoker until 2001, when I quit cold-turkey.  After my wedding, I started smoking my pipe again, maybe one or two bowls a week.  Now, I smoke the pipe about once a day on my way to work or one the way home.


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## trevor1189 (Dec 10, 2009)

I am relearning the non smoking lifestyle after a recent change to hospital policy requiring nicotine testing for employment and for clinical rotations. I am planning on starting Paramedic school in the spring and when I heard this I figured it was time.

I think it is absolutely outrageous [the new policy]. But I want to become a medic so no smoking for me. Third day today. I personally don't think an employer has any business telling you what you can and cannot do when you are not working (assuming you are not in uniform), but I love EMS.

Definitely hard to give it up, hanging around at the fire station with a lot of smokers makes it hard, and it is very relaxing to me to come back from a call and enjoy a cigarette.

Anyone know how long nicotine remains in urine? I need to take a drug test (which will apparently include nicotine) before starting school Jan 11 2010.


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## MrBrown (Dec 10, 2009)

smoking is filthy nasty toxic and disgusting, not for me but by all means if you want to spark up feel free, just don't come into my house thanks


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## Seaglass (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't smoke, but almost everyone I work with does. It's gross. Some of them seriously reek of it, and I don't imagine that's good for their patients.

Oh, dipping is really popular, too. Also gross.


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## DV_EMT (Dec 11, 2009)

crash_cart said:


> I'll have a cigar every now and then.  I like a good stogie on occasion, and no-it can't be flavored or from a gas station.



AMEN to that!!!

I do like cigars...and am partial to pipe tobacco when i feel like im having an off day.

but... i only smoke cigars occasionally... not a full time gig... i have one once every 4-6 weeks.. not on the regular.


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## VentMedic (Dec 11, 2009)

trevor1189 said:


> I think it is absolutely outrageous [the new policy]. But I want to become a medic so no smoking for me. Third day today. I personally don't think an employer has any business telling you what you can and cannot do when you are not working (assuming you are not in uniform), but I love EMS.
> 
> Definitely hard to give it up, hanging around at the fire station with a lot of smokers makes it hard, and it is very relaxing to me to come back from a call and enjoy a cigarette.
> 
> Anyone know how long nicotine remains in urine? I need to take a drug test (which will apparently include nicotine) before starting school Jan 11 2010.


 
I guess the FFs in your area do not have the Heart Lung Bill in effect. Too bad for them.

Your employer pays for your insurance and you have patients to care for who deserve to not have your stinky body in the close quarters of an ambulance. Unfortunately as a smoker you can not smell the foul odor of your body and breath even with all the cologne and mints you might use thinking you are hiding your habit.  Good for this hospital for giving them health care providers who won't make them sicker or at least not by the smell of a walking stale ashtray.


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## gcfd_rez31 (Dec 11, 2009)

How can you have "other"?? 
LOL


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## dmc2007 (Dec 11, 2009)

Negative for me.  Smoking (nicotine, everything else is a different story) was so stigmatized growing up that seeing anyone my age that does causes me to do a double take.


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## DrParasite (Dec 11, 2009)

just remember: every time you light up, you are literally burning money.  $7+ a pack, and we all know how much EMS people earn.

I occasionally will have a cigarette if I'm drinking with friends, but even that is getting less frequent.  unless I have had a really really really bad day, I avoid them.  and even then I still enjoy a beer or two to take the edge off.


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## wolfwyndd (Dec 11, 2009)

trevor1189 said:


> Anyone know how long nicotine remains in urine? I need to take a drug test (which will apparently include nicotine) before starting school Jan 11 2010.


I don't remember an exact quote or anything, but I seem to remember it only stays in the urine for a few days.  But I might be wrong.  

BTW, insurance or not, I'm with you, I don't believe an employer has any right to tell you what you can and can't do while you're NOT on the job.  

And on that happy note, I'm coming up on two years smoke free now.  The three things that worked for me where 1. Chantix, 2. Accupunture, 3. a tattoo.  Yeah, I got a tattoo of the viking rune for 'strength' and every time I want a cigarette I look at it and tell me I'm stronger then my cravings.


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## texasbred (Dec 11, 2009)

Started when I was 13, joined the Army in early 2001 and after 9/11 we got deployment orders and I failed the lung capacity test. So I quit smoking right then and just now I was able to pass a PFT.


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## Chrissy88 (Dec 11, 2009)

I smoke, I have regularly for about a year and a half now. I end up quitting for a couple of days, then I smoke socially then I'm right back to smoking again.


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## VFFforpeople (Dec 11, 2009)

I am a chewer Cope long cut.


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## DV_EMT (Dec 11, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> I am a chewer Cope long cut.



i never could do dip for the life of me... plus it just seemed like too much work


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## Pudge40 (Dec 11, 2009)

I occasionally smoke a cigar.


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## bunkie (Dec 12, 2009)

Congrats to you! My husband quit smoking a few years ago and was smoke free for several years but he's smoking again now that he's back in Iraq. :glare: I hope he can quit again. Just keep up the good work!

I do not smoke. A. Cause I think its icky and B. I have horrible asthma and do not wish to piss off my lungs any more.


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## imurphy (Dec 14, 2009)

Well being in the severe minority here (11/80) I do smoke. 

I know of, and willingly accept the risks associated with it. It is something I enjoy and do not plan on changing in the near future. 

I do wonder, however, why exactly it has become socially accpetable for smokers to become so severly prejudiced against. For it seems fine, by societys standards, for someone to come up to me in the street and tell me that I am disgusting and killing myself. There is no outrage when this is done, and it happens all too regularly. But then, on the flip side, if I was to see an obese person in a fast food estiblishment, go up to them and tell them they are disgusting and killing themselves, everyone would be up in arms! 

So, when you are insulting others who have made an informed choice, think about how it would feel when the shoe is on the other foot. Just somethign to think about.


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## akflightmedic (Dec 14, 2009)

My only issue is an obese person does not affect me or my kids with their greasy burgers or chocolate donuts.

A smoker does...


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## akflightmedic (Dec 14, 2009)

wolfwyndd said:


> BTW, insurance or not, I'm with you, I don't believe an employer has any right to tell you what you can and can't do while you're NOT on the job.



Sure they can...and you have the right to tell them you no longer wish to work there. It is quite simple really.

I have had employers regulate what jobs we have off duty, so they can certainly regulate certain behaviors...again, it is your choice to work there or not.


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## imurphy (Dec 14, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> My only issue is an obese person does not affect me or my kids with their greasy burgers or chocolate donuts.
> 
> A smoker does...



They have no effect on you? Really....


> Some of the other effects of obesity include those that are carried by the rest of society. This includes things like an increase in health insurance rates. As more people are obese and require more health treatments, insurance rates go up. These costs are all shouldered by consumers and are felt in our monthly budgets. Insurance companies have to increase premiums in order to cover the cost of caring for sick, when people are obese they have a tendency towards more costly health problems.
> 
> Another of the effects of obesity on society includes things as mundane as the change in the size of chairs or seats in cars. Car manufacturers have had to increase the size of the seats in cars to accommodate the populations growing size. As a result the effects of obesity also trickle down into our everyday costs. Obesity is not only a potentially dangerous health condition, it has an impact on our society as well and the cost of obesity is something that affects us all.



I think the extra you have to spend on health insurance / medicare / taxes etc would be better off used on say a family vacation or, given the season, presents for your kids. 


Now I am not just getting on my soap box about obese people. I am using it as an example of how society treats one group who has made a choice as opposed to the treatment of another. My main issue is the prejudice we have to live with because of our choice. The phrase "separate but equal" comes to mind.


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## akflightmedic (Dec 14, 2009)

I thought we were talking outside the insurance issue as that has been discussed before and I think someone said "not considering the insurance" or something to that effect.

Standing in line watching someone eat a cheeseburger has no effect on me or my family whereas a smoker does. Dispute that and you have a case for me to shut up.


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## imurphy (Dec 14, 2009)

Well I believe we will have to agree to disagree. 

I am just showing how it's deemed socially acceptable to be openly prejudiced against people who have made an informed choice, while it's unacceptable to be predjuiced against other groups. Are we going to see you openly bashing other people who have made a choice in how they live their lives? How about immigrants who have chosen to come here? Want to start on them too? No, because it wouldn't be such an easy target. 

There are many things that offend me, but you know what, I shut up about it. Because I don't want to be predjudiced to those people or groups yet I live with this every day. 

I do not feel that I have to justify myself to yourself nor anybody else on my choice. It is my choice. And I stand by it. If it offends you, I am not sorry. You make your choices, and that's your right too.


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## reaper (Dec 14, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> I thought we were talking outside the insurance issue as that has been discussed before and I think someone said "not considering the insurance" or something to that effect.
> 
> Standing in line watching someone eat a cheeseburger has no effect on me or my family whereas a smoker does. Dispute that and you have a case for me to shut up.



Hold your breath!


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## akflightmedic (Dec 14, 2009)

imurphy said:


> Well I believe we will have to agree to disagree.
> 
> I am just showing how it's deemed socially acceptable to be openly prejudiced against people who have made an informed choice, while it's unacceptable to be predjuiced against other groups. Are we going to see you openly bashing other people who have made a choice in how they live their lives? How about immigrants who have chosen to come here? Want to start on them too? No, because it wouldn't be such an easy target.
> 
> ...



It does not offend me...it HARMS me...big difference and yes stuff harms us every day but this is one that can be controlled.


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## Sasha (Dec 14, 2009)

> Another of the effects of obesity on society includes things as mundane as the change in the size of chairs or seats in cars. Car manufacturers have had to increase the size of the seats in cars to accommodate the populations growing size.



I like the bigger seats, more room for me to stretch out.


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## wolfwyndd (Dec 15, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> Sure they can...and you have the right to tell them you no longer wish to work there. It is quite simple really.
> 
> I have had employers regulate what jobs we have off duty, so they can certainly regulate certain behaviors...again, it is your choice to work there or not.



Well, when you put it like that. . . . . . . . . my opinion hasn't changed.  I don't think that employers have the right to tell you where you can and can not work either.


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## akflightmedic (Dec 15, 2009)

So in a small to medium size town, there is enough population for a strip club to thrive.

Is it acceptable for one of the EMS members to work there on their nights off?

What if the mayor or some council members decide to do it?

What if there is a corporate buyer for WalMart who also happens to be a part time seller for one of Wal Marts favorite buying places.

Are you telling me that the FT employer can not or should not direct employees on where they can or can not work?


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## VentMedic (Dec 15, 2009)

imurphy said:


> Well I believe we will have to agree to disagree.
> 
> I am just showing how it's deemed socially acceptable to be openly prejudiced against people who have made an informed choice, while it's unacceptable to be predjuiced against other groups. Are we going to see you openly bashing other people who have made a choice in how they live their lives? How about immigrants who have chosen to come here? Want to start on them too? No, because it wouldn't be such an easy target.
> 
> ...


 
You still do not have the right to impinge upon the rights of others with your habits. I do not allow people to smoke or take illegal drugs in my house. I do not allow them to drink to excess unless there is a sober driver around. If I am paying for your insurance, I would expect you to at the very least not to do something so blatantly obvious that is detrimental to your health as smoking is. An employer has the same rights as I do in my house. 

The employer expects you not to do illegal drugs and smoking is something that is very much known to cause health problems not only for that person but their patients as well. It is ridiculous to even be having this discussion on a forum where there are supposed to be health care providers here. Although EMS is not really involve in teaching patients unless they are part of public safety, being an example of practice what you preach goes a long way. 

If you, as a health care professional , do illegal drugs or drinks to excess even if you are a "functioning alcoholic", your medical license will be in jeopardy. Is that discrimination? It impedes upon your right to be a junkie or an alcoholic as your life's choice. Of course it shouldn't matter when it comes to treating them as patients but it does matter when they are on the other side accepting the responsibility of doing the treating. 

And yes we do discriminate again people who are overweight when they can not perform their duties. 200 or 220 is the max for HEMS or flight medics. Someone who weighs in at 400 pounds probably won't make it in the Fire or Police academy. I'm sure there are many other jobs where size matters and an obese person can not apply. Even some helicopters can not transport an obese patient. Discrimination or safety? 

We do have racial guidelines for hiring as we might even have to restrict the number of all American whites in favor of hiring minorities. In Miami/Dade County the majority of the population is now Hispanic to where their "minority" status is affected in some issues. Have you ever seen a white contestant in a black beauty pageant? 

We also now have laws in some cities that all the restaurants must cook with 0 trans fat cooking oil. So there is a greater plan in place to help those with obesity issues. It is not just the poor smoker is being picked on. But then, when it comes to being a health care professional, your responsibilties to others must be considered and that includes your employer, your co-workers and the patients. Those at some of our hospitals and FDs who failed to see their responsibilites of employment were essentially told to find another place to work.  You do have the right to seek employment where they allow your habits.


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## VentMedic (Dec 15, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> So in a small to medium size town, there is enough population for a strip club to thrive.
> 
> Is it acceptable for one of the EMS members to work there on their nights off?
> 
> ...


 
If I had posed for Playboy in my younger years, I'm sure the FD would have told me to seek other employment. In fact that was made very clear by my FD after a few that were told exactly that in other FDs and LE agencies.    Beefcake calendars were still acceptable as long as one left some clothes on. But, once the line was crossed into pornography, that employee became a liability and not an asset.


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## VentMedic (Dec 15, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> And yes we do discriminate again people who are overweight when they can not perform their duties. 200 or 220 is the max for HEMS or flight medics. Someone who weighs in at 400 pounds probably won't make it in the Fire or Police academy. I'm sure there are many other jobs where size matters and an obese person can not apply. Even some helicopters can not transport an obese patient. Discrimination or safety?


 
Let me elaborate a little more about the weight issue.  It is not just for "Flight teams" but it affects any specialty team (neo, pedi, cardiac, ob) that requires the use of a helicopter as one of their transportation methods.  We have had some very good Neo RNs or RRTs who would be excellent on a team but can not be full members since they can not take call if a transport requires a helicopter.   They might be able to do routine ground transports if previously scheduled.


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## Tincanfireman (Dec 15, 2009)

I don't smoke, never have, but if someone I work with wants to light up in my proximity I'm OK with it as long as they're downwind.  My service recently instituted a $25 per pay period (26 PP per year) surcharge on smokers, due to their increased incidence of health issues. They also offered cessation classes to those who were interested.  Their justification was that if you were going to be on their insurance, they had a right to recoup costs.


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## EMT Fan15 (Dec 15, 2009)

Sadly, i do smoke. But, on Xmas, I'm taking my money and buying niccotine Gum, and quitting!  8D


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## VentMedic (Dec 15, 2009)

EMT Fan15 said:


> Sadly, i do smoke. But, on Xmas, I'm taking my money and buying niccotine Gum, and quitting! 8D


 
You are 15 years old.  How long have you been smoking?

There is a very good chance you do not need nicotine gum but rather some will power and maybe some new friends to hang out with for awhile who are supportive of your decision to quit.  Since you are under the age of 18 it would also be advisable for you to consult with your family physician when using the nicotine gum.


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## Micro_87 (Dec 15, 2009)

Im a social smoker i only and rarely will smoke when im at the bar or just drinking. But starting May 10 of 2010, Michigan will be smoke free in all buildings (restaurants,bars etc) so i might just have to go buy a electronic cigarette and just smoke water vapor lol.


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## eveningsky339 (Dec 17, 2009)

Never have.  But I have had dreams in which I sneak a pack of cigarettes home...  Maybe I want to try it?  h34r:


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## EMT Fan15 (Jan 17, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> You are 15 years old.  How long have you been smoking?
> 
> There is a very good chance you do not need nicotine gum but rather some will power and maybe some new friends to hang out with for awhile who are supportive of your decision to quit.  Since you are under the age of 18 it would also be advisable for you to consult with your family physician when using the nicotine gum.


 
Yeah, no need to do that now. I quit. It was my newyear's resolution. I haven't smoked for 18 days; which it was amazingly easy, if you asked me.


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