# Denver Health EMS



## Will980 (Sep 3, 2014)

I would like to get as much information as I can on what it’s like to work for Denver EMS as a paramedic. 
There website has a wide range as far as pay, does anyone know if they pay for experience? 
What kind of EPCR system do they use?  
How is their equipment?
What type of trucks Cardiac monitors? etc.
Do they do transfers as well as 911 calls?
What is there hiring process like?

I would appreciate any information that can be provided, I am considering moving to the area. I have over 10 years of experience as a paramedic and looking for a change of scenery. I have looked at the threads on here but it seems like the information that I am looking for is a couple of years old at least so I would like to get some updated information.

Thank you


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## Tigger (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm no expert but we have some part timers that have worked at DG in the past. They do pay more starting for experience but I can't remember exact numbers. They've got a pretty new fleet of E350/LifeLine Type IIIs. Complete with an "X" screen printed onto the bench so you can direct your walking patients on where to sit, lest they sit on the cot. For what ever reason that's a big thing in Denver, if you can walk to and from the ambulance, you will. They will not go away from the super light old school Ferno Cots I have noticed. I think they use LP12s as well. No idea what their ePCR system is but of note, they run pretty much exclusively double medic and you alternate shifts between driving and riding. 

They have a CCT ambulance but I think that's it for transfers.

Not too sure about the hiring process, but they are not civil service. My understanding is that it's a pretty standard process, written test, interview, maybe a practical test?


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## DrParasite (Sep 3, 2014)

Tigger said:


> IComplete with an "X" screen printed onto the bench so you can direct your walking patients on where to sit, lest they sit on the cot. For what ever reason that's a big thing in Denver, if you can walk to and from the ambulance, you will.


I cannot say how much I love this.  beats having to use 2 inch tape lol

reasons #1 to walk ambulatory patients: prevents unneccesary back injuries to your EMS personnel.  Do you really need another reason?  

It's actually very common in most inner city urban environments, where patients are treated based on their medical needs, not on the "everyone gets carried to the ambulance."  But I still love the printed X on the bench seat.


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## Tigger (Sep 4, 2014)

I did it all the time when I worked in Boston. Now I work in Colorado's second biggest city part-time and the expectation is that most patients will be conveyed to the ambulance in some manner other than their own two feet. It's a silly expectation, but alas.


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 4, 2014)

Will980 said:


> I would like to get as much information as I can on what it’s like to work for Denver EMS as a paramedic.
> There website has a wide range as far as pay, does anyone know if they pay for experience?



Yes, they do pay for experience.



> What kind of EPCR system do they use?



High Plains for PCRs



> How is their equipment?



Generally in pretty good shape.



> What type of trucks Cardiac monitors? etc.



Lifeline extended cab type III https://www.flickr.com/photos/toneslider12/7320576772/
Lifepak 12 monitors right now. It'll be changing at some point, probably to the 15.



> Do they do transfers as well as 911 calls?



Occasionally from a Denver Health clinic to the ED or a major trauma from a non-trauma center. It's pretty rare. There's a CCT ambulance, but it's staffed with a nurse and an EMT.



> What is there hiring process like?



I don't have a great answer because it's changed since I was hired. I know there's a phone interview that's more of a personality test before any EMS interview. Also, they're planning on hiring big academies this month and next month because we were approved to add a bunch of new full-time medic spots.


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## DrParasite (Sep 4, 2014)

Will they be hiring EMTs too, or just paramedics?  Website says they have 130 Paramedics, and 24 EMTs.....


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## TRSpeed (Sep 4, 2014)

@Ensihoitaja

Thanks for the feedback, I got some questions as well.

I noticed you guys have EMDs , how are you guys with it. I've worked in a few systems all with "EMD" but some still responded everything Code3 and some did it right with code 2 and 3 responses and sending the FD respectively. 

How is OT? Is it strict or always there? 

SSM I'm assuming?

How are insurance benefits and retirement?


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 5, 2014)

TRSpeed said:


> @Ensihoitaja
> 
> Thanks for the feedback, I got some questions as well.
> 
> I noticed you guys have EMDs , how are you guys with it. I've worked in a few systems all with "EMD" but some still responded everything Code3 and some did it right with code 2 and 3 responses and sending the FD respectively.



The EMD isn't too bad, we don't go emergent on everything. Fire also responds on emergent calls. Unknown injury accidents, medical alarms with no complaints, and lift assists are handled by the fire department.



> How is OT? Is it strict or always there?



OT is usually pretty plentiful, but it goes in cycles a bit. There's opportunities at special events, too, like Rockies and Broncos games. OT for over 40 in a week. There's evening and night shift differentials, too.



> SSM I'm assuming?



Yes, and we do 4/10s.



> How are insurance benefits and retirement?



Insurance is pretty affordable and there's a few different options. We pay into a 401(a) instead of social security and the hospital puts in some extra on top of that, so I'm happy with how my retirement account looks right now.


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 5, 2014)

DrParasite said:


> Will they be hiring EMTs too, or just paramedics?  Website says they have 130 Paramedics, and 24 EMTs.....


I'm not sure if they're hiring EMTs now or not. If they are it'll be listed on the website.


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## DrParasite (Sep 7, 2014)

Ensihoitaja said:


> The EMD isn't too bad, we don't go emergent on everything. Fire also responds on emergent calls. Unknown injury accidents, medical alarms with no complaints, and lift assists are handled by the fire department.


I know it's off topic, but I have a huge problem with the last sentence.  EMS should be send on all  MVAs with potential injuries, all medical alarms, and lift assists.  These all have a very high potential for EMS needs.  If you can't handle that call volume, than you need to put on my trucks. 

After all, you don't see PD responding to fire alarms and only requesting the FD if it's an actual fire.  or EMS responding to a report of a building collapse and only calling the FD is there are people entrapped.  Same logic, send the appropriate EMS resources for the EMS assignment.  But that's another topic....


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 10, 2014)

I don't agree. Do they have potential? Yes. Do they have an articulated need? No.  For it to just be a lift assist call, they have to say they don't have any complaints and that they had a mechanical fall. Anything else gets an ambulance response.


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## DrParasite (Sep 18, 2014)

Ensihoitaja said:


> I don't agree. Do they have potential? Yes. Do they have an articulated need? No.  For it to just be a lift assist call, they have to say they don't have any complaints and that they had a mechanical fall. Anything else gets an ambulance response.


Tuesday I went on a "lift assist" call.  patient had no complaints, we picked him up, put him back in bed, he didn't want to go to the hospital, and everything looked good.  We convinced him to go, which was a good thing; 30 minutes later (while transporting to the ER), his pressure dropped to 89/50, and he turned purplish blue from the nippleline up.  If the engine had just put him back into bed, what would have happened?

Also, was it a fall or did the patient have a syncopal episode?  and how many falls have injuries?  do you get refusals on lift assist?

want to be treated like one of the big boys?  than handle everything that comes with the job, whether you like it or not.  The more EMS does, the more you will be remembered when budget time comes around, and the more calls you go on, the more justification you have to get more resources (hence the reason urban and some suburban FDs go on EMS calls) when the pencil pushers decide how many units they need to cover your primary area.


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## Tigger (Sep 18, 2014)

What if the ambulance just picked him up and left him in bed?


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 19, 2014)

DrParasite said:


> Tuesday I went on a "lift assist" call.  patient had no complaints, we picked him up, put him back in bed, he didn't want to go to the hospital, and everything looked good.  We convinced him to go, which was a good thing; 30 minutes later (while transporting to the ER), his pressure dropped to 89/50, and he turned purplish blue from the nippleline up.  If the engine had just put him back into bed, what would have happened?
> 
> Also, was it a fall or did the patient have a syncopal episode?  and how many falls have injuries?  do you get refusals on lift assist?
> 
> want to be treated like one of the big boys?  than handle everything that comes with the job, whether you like it or not.  The more EMS does, the more you will be remembered when budget time comes around, and the more calls you go on, the more justification you have to get more resources (hence the reason urban and some suburban FDs go on EMS calls) when the pencil pushers decide how many units they need to cover your primary area.



The "big boys" line is needlessly insulting, but thanks for that. 

What was your rationale for convincing him to go to the hospital?  

To fall under the lift assist criteria, the patient has to stay on the call that it was a mechanical fall. If the reason for the fall is unknown, they get an ambulance. If they have a complaint they get an ambulance. If they say they lost consciousness or aren't sure, they get an ambulance. 

If they have a complaint, they're a refusal. If not, it goes down as a lift assist.


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## Tigger (Sep 19, 2014)

I don't think someone has any idea what the Denver emergency services outlook is. You know better than I what Denver Health's reputation is and I think it's fair to say that they currently have "big boi" status.


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## Handsome Robb (Sep 19, 2014)

You have no idea how frustrating this is to me seeing as I just signed a year contract in exchange for CCEMTP for free.

The only thing I'm not a fan of is alternating driving/attending by shift rather than call but not something that you can't get used to.


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## Tigger (Sep 19, 2014)

A year isn't too long. I'll be looking at three for medic school.


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 19, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> You have no idea how frustrating this is to me seeing as I just signed a year contract in exchange for CCEMTP for free.
> 
> The only thing I'm not a fan of is alternating driving/attending by shift rather than call but not something that you can't get used to.



I was skeptical about that at first, but I think it works pretty well. It's nice to settle in with one thing for the day and it's nice not to have to trade the laptop back and forth.


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 19, 2014)

Tigger said:


> I don't think someone has any idea what the Denver emergency services outlook is. You know better than I what Denver Health's reputation is and I think it's fair to say that they currently have "big boi" status.



Heh. We've also run more than 100,000 calls the last 2 years and this year is on pace to be even busier, so we don't really need to go looking for business at the moment.


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## TransportJockey (Sep 19, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> You have no idea how frustrating this is to me seeing as I just signed a year contract in exchange for CCEMTP for free.
> 
> The only thing I'm not a fan of is alternating driving/attending by shift rather than call but not something that you can't get used to.


Lol I was thinking the same thing. I loved living in Lakewood and wouldn't mind going back. DG or a TX third service are really my top options eventually


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## DrParasite (Sep 22, 2014)

Tigger said:


> What if the ambulance just picked him up and left him in bed?


Actually, that wasn't my point.... what I was trying to say was if the engine crew just put him back in bed, and went on their way, 45 minutes later, the wife would have called back unhappily that now her husband of 45 year was turning purple.  if the ambulance was there, I would hope they would at least assess the patient, moreso than the engine crew (more equipment, more patient care experience, more "this is my job" vs "this is what I do when I am not fighting fires", more education/training, etc).  In truth, the patient might look fine, and have still crashed afterwards, but it's always better to have documentation from a medical professional that an assessment was performed vs the FD just helped him off the floor.


Ensihoitaja said:


> The "big boys" line is needlessly insulting, but thanks for that.


it's not insulting, it's a statement of fact in too many systems nationwide, where don't get the resources to do their job right, and have to rely on the other .  but that's another topic.


Ensihoitaja said:


> What was your rationale for convincing him to go to the hospital?


IIRC, it was because he wasn't feeling right.  didn't really have a complaint, every thing looked good, but he didn't feel right.





Ensihoitaja said:


> If they have a complaint, they're a refusal. If not, it goes down as a lift assist.


we do that too.





Tigger said:


> I don't think someone has any idea what the Denver emergency services outlook is. You know better than I what Denver Health's reputation is and I think it's fair to say that they currently have "big boi" status.


I'm sure their reputation is stellar, especially compared to other EMS agencies.  Do your field supervisors make as much as an FD battalion chief?  Does DHEMS's director report to the mayor?  Does their system suffer from the revolving door problems that plague many other EMS systems, where people will work EMS until they get picked up by the FD, PD, or nursing/PA/medical school? is DHEMS a system where you can have a wife and two kids, own a home and live comfortably without working 40 hrs of OT a week?  what are their turnover levels when compared to others in public safety?  do you have the ability to retire with a livable pension, and other jobs for when your body can't handle you being on the ambulance day in and day out?  you opened the door on this one.


Ensihoitaja said:


> Heh. We've also run more than 100,000 calls the last 2 years and this year is on pace to be even busier, so we don't really need to go looking for business at the moment.


so?  FDNY EMS system runs something like 1.2 million calls a year...  but if you do pick up more calls, and add another 5 ambulances to every shift, isn't that a good thing?  Poor systems (like where I used to work) run their crews into the ground to compensate for the rising call volumes.... good systems staff additional trucks on a FT basis to compensate for the additional call volume.  Total run volumes are one thing, unit hour utilization is actually a much better gauge on how busy you are.


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## Ensihoitaja (Sep 23, 2014)

DrParasite said:


> it's not insulting, it's a statement of fact in too many systems nationwide, where don't get the resources to do their job right, and have to rely on the other .  but that's another topic.



I still disagree. I don't think that "responds on lift assists" is the defining characteristic of a good ambulance service.



> IIRC, it was because he wasn't feeling right.  didn't really have a complaint, every thing looked good, but he didn't feel right.



That's a fair point. Although we don't know if that call would have gotten an ambulance from us.



> I'm sure their reputation is stellar, especially compared to other EMS agencies.  Do your field supervisors make as much as an FD battalion chief?



They make good money but I don't know what Denver Fire District Chiefs make.



> Does DHEMS's director report to the mayor?



The chief paramedic reports to the chief of emergency medicine and the CEO of the hospital. We're not part of the city government.



> Does their system suffer from the revolving door problems that plague many other EMS systems, where people will work EMS until they get picked up by the FD, PD, or nursing/PA/medical school? is DHEMS a system where you can have a wife and two kids, own a home and live comfortably without working 40 hrs of OT a week?



We have people that leave for all of those things, but not constantly. You can make a comfortable living without working ridiculous amounts of overtime. I do.



> what are their turnover levels when compared to others in public safety?



Anecdotally, there's more turnover than typical fire departments but substantially less than in private EMS.



> do you have the ability to retire with a livable pension, and other jobs for when your body can't handle you being on the ambulance day in and day out?  you opened the door on this one.



We don't have a pension plan but we pay into a 401(a) and the hospital makes substantial contributions as well. My retirement account is in great shape with no additional input beyond the basics.



> so?  FDNY EMS system runs something like 1.2 million calls a year...  but if you do pick up more calls, and add another 5 ambulances to every shift, isn't that a good thing?  Poor systems (like where I used to work) run their crews into the ground to compensate for the rising call volumes.... good systems staff additional trucks on a FT basis to compensate for the additional call volume.  Total run volumes are one thing, unit hour utilization is actually a much better gauge on how busy you are.



Last I heard our response UHUs were between 0.6-0.7. We're in the process of adding 20-25 new medics to make up for increased demand.


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