# From medic to med school



## Sublime (Jan 28, 2013)

I've been doing a lot of thinking recently, and have decided I'm pretty sure I want to go to med school. My initial plan has been to do a medic to RN bridge program that starts this summer, and eventually move on to DNP. 

The more I think about it, I would hate to  feel limited as a NP and most of all I want to attend med school because I have a desire to obtain a better medical knowledge. I would hate to go the NP route then feel I didn't get a deep enough understanding of medicine. 

I am posting this because I know people here have gone from medic to med school so I would like to hear your advice / experiences. 

I'm thinking about doing RN bridge so I can work in a hospital and make more money without having to work the OT I do now as a medic. This combined with the increased flexibility of scheduling that the hospital would provide as oppose to the EMS service I work for now I think would make Pre-med easier. 

Do you think that would be a waste of time? Did you guys work as medics till you got accepted to med school? Anyone know how hard it is living off loans while in med school with a family?

Thanks for any input.


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## Summit (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm not sure your ROI on nursing school is going to be great versus just going into med school ASAP if that is your goal. What is the delay for med school?


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## Sublime (Jan 28, 2013)

Right now I hold an AAS degree in EMS. I don't think any of my sciences will apply to med school. I think the micro course I have is an allied health version, will have to check. 

So I have a long way to go till I can even apply. On top of that my work schedule at my current company will make it difficult to attend classes that are not on a shift schedule. So I was thinking I could do 2 full semesters + 1 summer and be an RN. This would allow me to have good pay and a more flexible while doing Pre-reps for med school. (Could possibly save some money too, although not sure how much it would help in the long run). 

I have a wife, a daughter, and will be having another little one within the next year or so (along with planning on buying a house this year), so quitting and doing full on Pre-med to get into med school ASAP isn't an option.


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## Summit (Jan 28, 2013)

Sublime said:


> Right now I hold an AAS degree in EMS. I don't think any of my sciences will apply to med school. I think the micro course I have is an allied health version, will have to check.
> 
> So I have a long way to go till I can even apply. On top of that my work schedule at my current company will make it difficult to attend classes that are not on a shift schedule. So I was thinking I could do 2 full semesters + 1 summer and be an RN. This would allow me to have good pay and a more flexible while doing Pre-reps for med school. (Could possibly save some money too, although not sure how much it would help in the long run).
> 
> I have a wife, a daughter, and will be having another little one within the next year or so (along with planning on buying a house this year), so quitting and doing full on Pre-med to get into med school ASAP isn't an option.



I understand your situation now. I'd wonder first what 1 year RN programs were you looking at? I was unaware that those existed apart from some ABSNs? I'd also warn you that the market for new grad RNs is extremely bad in many areas forcing many to accept non-ideal schedules and/or non-hospital jobs. Many areas it is very hard to get hired into acute care without a BSN and/or experience (and even then its not easy), and even harder for specialty units I'd imagine you'd enjoy like ED/ICU. Some hospitals and many specialty units simply do not hire new grad RNs.

Working nights in med surgery or a LTAC isn't going to make your academic life easier... not to pee in your Cheerios, but the whole "nursing shortage" is not really true if that was part of your thinking.


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## EpiEMS (Jan 28, 2013)

Maybe PA school would fit your needs more so than nursing school would. Just a thought. I'm not sure if PA school would be as flexible as nursing school, though.


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## Sublime (Jan 28, 2013)

Don't want to be a PA. Would rather do RN to DNP than PA .... or wait till I can do med school.

Edit: The RN program is a paramedic / lvn to ADN bridge program.


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## Medico (Jan 28, 2013)

Not sure if this is entirely true with where you are from, but I would encourage you to ask about. I had a friend on the committee who interviewed med student applicants. Quite a few people, it seems, look down on the decision to go RN to MD. Again, see if you can get an inside perspective, so you don't "shoot yourself in the foot".


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## jd3123 (Jan 28, 2013)

I thought about RN also specifically because great chance of getting a job because of demand. Im in NY though and the paramedics here do very well, and you are not limiting yourself to just a regular paramedic there are different levels to advanced your career. I'm not you but I like the idea of being a medic more then RN because of the numerous on the spot emergencies, on the road not stuck in the hospital the whole time and the pay at least where I live is somewhat competitive(on average about 15k less) but opportunities to advance or inside track to firefighter. Good luck whatever you do not trying to change your mind just sharing some thoughts I had.


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## jd3123 (Jan 28, 2013)

Most of outside NY medic salary are not great so I can deff understand


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## JPINFV (Jan 28, 2013)

If you want to do medical school, finish your pre-med work as fast and as well as you can and go to med school. The longer you wait the more wasted years (loss income) that you'll have and the more and interesting ways you'll get to suffer as you watch your family grow up from the other side of a lecture powerpoint.


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## VFlutter (Jan 28, 2013)

Sublime said:


> Don't want to be a PA. Would rather do RN to DNP than PA .... or wait till I can do med school.
> 
> Edit: The RN program is a paramedic / lvn to ADN bridge program.



If you want to go NP I would suggest either ACNP or CRNA. They focus more on the advanced medical aspect with less "fluffy" nursing classes then the other NP routes. ACNP is fairly comparable to a PA program. In my hospitals the ACNPs and PAs function in identical roles. 

Also, since you will have to take a RN to BSN after the bridge program it might be the same amount of time to just go straight through a BSN program. 




aust10n said:


> Not sure if this is entirely true with where you are from, but I would encourage you to ask about. I had a friend on the committee who interviewed med student applicants. Quite a few people, it seems, look down on the decision to go RN to MD. Again, see if you can get an inside perspective, so you don't "shoot yourself in the foot".



I find that hard to believe. I have been told RN experience does not necessarily help but I do not think it would hurt. As long as they completed all the prerequisites and have competitive grades I don't see why any AdCom would look down on an applicant for previous healthcare experience. 

I have met a few MD/DO who were once RNs and they all have been exceptional physicians.


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## STXmedic (Jan 28, 2013)

Chase said:


> I find that hard to believe. I have been told RN experience does not necessarily help but I do not think it would hurt. As long as they completed all the prerequisites and have competitive grades I don't see why any AdCom would look down on an applicant for previous healthcare experience.
> 
> I have met a few MD/DO who were once RNs and they all have been exceptional physicians.



While I agree, I have heard that numerous times as well. I don't know of there is any truth behind it, but the notion is certainly wide-spread. 

That said, if you want to be a doctor, go make it happen. Knock out your prereqs as soon as possible, rock your MCAT, and apply. If your current place of employment won't work with your schedule, see if there's another company nearby that will. You were planning on leaving for nursing anyway, so you apparently aren't dead-set on working there. If they will work with you, then all the better.


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## jrm818 (Jan 29, 2013)

Sublime said:


> Right now I hold an AAS degree in EMS. I don't think any of my sciences will apply to med school. I think the micro course I have is an allied health version, will have to check.
> 
> So I have a long way to go till I can even apply. On top of that my work schedule at my current company will make it difficult to attend classes that are not on a shift schedule. So I was thinking I could do 2 full semesters + 1 summer and be an RN. This would allow me to have good pay and a more flexible while doing Pre-reps for med school. (Could possibly save some money too, although not sure how much it would help in the long run).
> 
> I have a wife, a daughter, and will be having another little one within the next year or so (along with planning on buying a house this year), so quitting and doing full on Pre-med to get into med school ASAP isn't an option.



I really don't want to be a debbie downer; I think your goals are very admirable and don't doubt you could pull this off if you put your whole being into becoming a physician.  I'm sure you'd make a good doctor.

That said, from my still very limited experience,  you need to be way beyond "pretty sure" if you're going to make a go of this.  The reality is that it is very hard to get into a U.S. medical school, MD or DO.  There is no guarantee that completing the prerequisites will get you into med school, but there is a guarantee that it will be expensive and take years of your life.  You won't get to see your kids or your wife as much.  Buying a house may be possible still, but it would terrify me.  Pre-med classes aren't exactly easy, depending on your background.  From experience, it is extremely humbling to be told that no school wanted you...and that was without a family depending on me and making sacrifices for me.  You (and your wife) need to be ready for that possibility.

Assuming you get into med school (multiple tries are more common now....and the application process is miserable), the first couple of years have variable time commitment depending on where you attend.  I haven't yet seen what years 3 and 4 are like, but from what I hear they aren't the most family friendly experience.  Either way you for sure won't be working regularly, which means you're living on your wife's salary and about 15k/semester if you take out the maximum.  Maybe you could get finical aid, but you're still limited to 15ish a semester.  If no aid, loans now are very high interest with no grace period.  Even at "cheap" schools you're talking about a huge debt load.  There are older students who do support families, etc.  Honestly I don't know how they do it.

Then you have to do residency.

THEN you can finally start to pay off some of the debt you've accumulated over the last 7+ years of med school+residency + whatever debt from premed.  By the way kids college fund needs filling, you need to plan for retirement, still have all normal expenses, and maybe you want to take a nice vacation now that you've invested so much time and energy into this.

I agree that the RN plan sounds not great, if you are going to aim for medicine, spending time and money going to school for anything not directly related to your goal is a waste.  You'd be spending money on an education with no sure return and putting off years of attending-level salary, a single extra year of which will almost certainly offset the difference between medic and RN pay.  You almost certainly will not help your application chances to med school.  You already have medical experience.


This is a decision to make with your wife, keeping in mind that your kids only grow up once, that you have a limited time in this world, and that you presumably want to enjoy some of it.  To do this, you have to want to be a student for a long time, in addition to wanting to be a doctor.

If medicine (as a physician) is the only thing that will make you feel fulfilled in life, go for it.  It won't be easy, but it can be done.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Edit to add: if you decide to do it, devote yourself to it and don't look back.  Have confidence that you can do it, be happy and be proud, and don't ever read this post (or any like it) again.  Don't read the house of god either....miserable book...


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## wanderingmedic (Jan 29, 2013)

EpiEMS said:


> Maybe PA school would fit your needs more so than nursing school would. Just a thought. I'm not sure if PA school would be as flexible as nursing school, though.



You can go to PA school and then get a DO now. I haven't heard anything about the program though, anyone have any knowledge/feedback about it?

http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395


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## JPINFV (Jan 29, 2013)

azemtb255 said:


> You can go to PA school and then get a DO now. I haven't heard anything about the program though, anyone have any knowledge/feedback about it?
> 
> http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395




1. Enjoy primary care (family, or IM)
2. PA = 2 years, "accelerated" DO is 3 years. 3+2=5 years. 5>4 years. There's absolutely no point in this program unless you're already a PA. Also, enjoy your traditional rotating internship.


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## VFlutter (Jan 29, 2013)

azemtb255 said:


> You can go to PA school and then get a DO now. I haven't heard anything about the program though, anyone have any knowledge/feedback about it?
> 
> http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395



"Students accepted for APAP who interested in pursuing a primary care specialty, such as* family practice and general internal medicine*, must make a commitment to completing an osteopathic internship and residency upon graduation."

Umm no thank you


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## JPINFV (Jan 29, 2013)

jrm818 said:


> Edit to add: if you decide to do it, devote yourself to it and don't look back.  Have confidence that you can do it, be happy and be proud, and don't ever read this post (or any like it) again.  Don't read the house of god either....miserable book...



House of God is only a miserable book if you don't experience medical school. Pretty much all of the caricature in that book (EMD Eddie or Jo or the Fat Man or the laid back ICU attending near the end) I've seen in the short past 6 months. Not counting the insanity of spending 80+ hours a week in the hospital where you literally go home, sleep, wake up, go back to the hospital (bite me general surgery... bite me... 5am to 6pm 13 days straight with 2 30 hour shifts in there 5am to 11am the next day). It's a miserable experience because many aspects of rotations and residency are miserable.

However if you enjoy medicine, there's also plenty of periods of pure awesomeness. If you aren't sure if you love medicine, than the time commitment and energy for medical school and residency is probably not the right choice.


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## wanderingmedic (Jan 29, 2013)

Chase said:


> "Students accepted for APAP who interested in pursuing a primary care specialty, such as* family practice and general internal medicine*, must make a commitment to completing an osteopathic internship and residency upon graduation."
> 
> Umm no thank you



"APAP currently has 12 slots for this pathway. Six slots will be designated as primary care (family practice, general internal medicine, pediatrics or OB/GYN). Participants will be required to complete osteopathic primary care internship and residency upon graduation."

It seems like six slots can specialize in something else?


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## WTEngel (Jan 29, 2013)

Do not do nursing. I know of a few nurses that went from RN to MD/DO, and it worked for them because they did not realize they wanted to be a physician until they worked as a nurse. In your case, you realize you want to be a doctor, and now you plan on going to school to be a nurse? Sorry, but I will be direct with you and say that is about the most absurd decision you could make.

Consider the options in there entirety: 

You take your time getting through medical school pre-requisites while still working as a paramedic. It may take more time than you would like because you have to work more hours, but at the end you will be ready to apply for medical school. Once in medical school you will not be able to work, so if you planned on doing anything other than living off of loans, savings, or independent wealth, you might as well toss it out the window. It is a recipe for disaster. This route would likely take three years, maybe four depending on how fast paced you can make it through the classes.

Now, consider the nursing route. You will spend a year at least getting through the bridge program, and those sciences do absolutely nothing to meet your pre-reqs for medical school, other than satisfy your general elective hours and potentially make you GPA better (or worse.) Even though you have your RN, a year after you begin your plan, you are NO CLOSER to being able to apply for medical school. Not one bit. Now you begin working as an RN, and you take at least two years (assuming you can take classes any faster due to the perceived decreased work load due to possibly higher wages) and now, 3 years later, you are in the same spot...applying for medical school. 

To add to this, you now have to explain how taking a spot in a nursing program from someone who potentially would have dedicated their career to the nursing profession was the best decision to somehow get you into medical school, when an objective assessment shows that the two outcomes were really no different, and all you accomplished was racking up classes that had nothing to do with your ultimate goal, and take a spot from a potentially good nurse.

In fact, the question they might ask you is, "If you knew that nursing would not satisfy your desire to help patients in the manner you would most enjoy, then why did you decide to go to nursing school?" Even with the financial argument in play, I still think you are working an uphill battle with an adcomm. Just my opinion of course.

I am in a similar family situation. I have a 14 month old, and another baby on the way in August. I am fortunate enough that my wife has her MSN and makes enough for me to earn only about $500 a month and still live a decent lifestyle. We also have family that can watch our kiddo when she has to work at night and I am in class all day. I will tell you right now, if I had to work 36 hours a week as a nurse or any other job, I could not have finished my undergrad as quickly as I have, while still making decent grades. 

As others have pointed out, if you want to be a physician, then you go all in, right now, and make it happen. Don't screw around with nursing school or any other distractions. Get used to the fact that you and your family are in for a major lifestyle change for the next 7-10 years, and get it done. There are no easy ways to do this. If there were, everyone would be doing it.

I will add the disclaimer that I am in no way discounting the education that nurses get or demeaning the nursing profession. I just feel like people should not arbitrarily convince themselves that getting an ADN and working as a nurse for two years while try to do pre-reqs for medical school is somehow a wise choice.


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## VFlutter (Jan 29, 2013)

As much as I hate to admit it I totally agree with WTEngel :unsure:


Nursing is a great profession if that is truly what you enjoy but do not get into it for the wrong reasons. Also, do not go to nursing school expecting to magically become a DNP. It is a career choice that takes a lot of hard work and time in.

On a side note I am constantly amazed at the various positions you can get into as a nurse practitioner. I met a ACNP/RNFA who covers a CVICU and also assists in cardiac surgery. She is responsible for harvesting bypass grafts during CABGs. 

If you decide, for whatever reason, that med school is not an option for you then you may find a specialty in nursing that you really enjoy.


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## WTEngel (Jan 29, 2013)

Chase said:


> As much as I hate to admit it I totally agree with WTEngel :unsure:



I don't know why you would HATE to admit it...but don't be surprised if you wake up in the morning thinking, "My gosh...what have I done!"

I also want to reiterate what Chase said (even though it pains me deep down to my chewy nougat center)- Don't be so quick to convince yourself that there is not a mid-level nursing position that you wouldn't get as much if not more enjoyment out of.

I am in no way trying to discourage the OP, but I want to point out, that every so often in our lives we have to realize that the ship has sailed on certain plans, and we need to seek alternative paths that are just as satisfying, but are more reasonable to obtain given our current life situation.


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## Sublime (Jan 30, 2013)

jrm818 said:


> Buying a house may be possible still, but it would terrify me.



This is what i've been concerned the most with. Really not sure how this would work out. My spouse doesn't make near enough to make a house payment on her own. This is one of her main concerns as well, that and "being poor for a long time". 



jrm818 said:


> Don't read the house of god either....miserable book...



Funny you mention that, I am about half way done with it right now. This is the book I read in between school books at work / home. 



			
				WTEngel said:
			
		

> I am in a similar family situation. I have a 14 month old, and another baby on the way in August. I am fortunate enough that my wife has her MSN and makes enough for me to earn only about $500 a month and still live a decent lifestyle. We also have family that can watch our kiddo when she has to work at night and I am in class all day. I will tell you right now, if I had to work 36 hours a week as a nurse or any other job, I could not have finished my undergrad as quickly as I have, while still making decent grades.



If you don't mind me asking, what is your undergrad in? Did you do pre-med as well or are you just stating the difficulty of completing an undergrad in general while working full time / supporting a family? Just curious. And congrats on the new addition!



			
				Chase said:
			
		

> I met a ACNP/RNFA who covers a CVICU and also assists in cardiac surgery. She is responsible for harvesting bypass grafts during CABGs.



That's pretty cool, but I bet that it's pretty rare also.



			
				WTEngel said:
			
		

> I am in no way trying to discourage the OP, but I want to point out, that every so often in our lives we have to realize that the ship has sailed on certain plans, and we need to seek alternative paths that are just as satisfying, but are more reasonable to obtain given our current life situation.



When I read this I got kind of sad, mostly because I think you're right. After talking to my wife (she wasn't very encouraging) I am realizing my decision to start a family at my age (I'm 23) will definetly make doing something like this much harder than it should be. Definetly have a lot of thinking to do.

I really appreciate everyones input and honesty. The feedback from this thread so far has been amazing. Thanks.


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## WTEngel (Jan 30, 2013)

I am in my last semester of my biology degree with the intention of going to medical school. 

I did a biology degree because it was the most expedient way to get all of my pre-reqs and a bachelor's degree, however, looking back, I might have changed it up a little.

If you are 23, you could take 5 years to get through your undergrad and pre-reqs and still be about where I am at. I didn't decide I wanted to go to med school until about 2 years ago. I am lucky enough to have a wife that easily earns more than I will be able to for the foreseeable future (7 years at least) so I was able to drop back at work and take 18-21 hour semesters without having to sacrifice much on lifestyle.

If you really want the med school thing to work out, you are going to have to play the long game. Since you have your AAS already, your core classes are out of the way hopefully. Figure out the number of hours you can reasonably take each semester. If you can only take 8 hours (two lab classes) so be it. Start with bio and chem, and get those knocked out. Then work on physics and organic.

While you are doing this, you might consider applying to one of the online Emergency Health Science bachelor programs. UTHSCSA has a good one that is 100% online. You could easily do this concurrently while you do the science courses that require in person attendance. So at the end of 2 or 2.5 years, you will have an EHS degree that will satisfy your bachelor's requirement, and you will have the additional pre-requisite courses required to qualify for application. Throw in some MCAT review time, and you are looking at 3 years, maybe 4 or you play the long game and get held up somewhere along the line.

I hate to discourage you completely, so I wanted to throw the above plan out there for you. Going to medical school in your life situation is not impossible. In fact, the only difference between our situations is that my wife brings home the bacon, and your wife does not earn as much. That is not something that is impossible to overcome, as long as you can get her on board. I can not stress how important it is to have a supportive spouse. I could have never done as well as I am doing if my wife didn't support me and keep me in line.

PM me if you want to know more about my story or have any other questions. It isn't impossible...but it will be difficult. If you are willing to commit to it and not get distracted, you can make it happen.


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## jrm818 (Jan 30, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> House of God is only a miserable book if you don't experience medical school. Pretty much all of the caricature in that book (EMD Eddie or Jo or the Fat Man or the laid back ICU attending near the end) I've seen in the short past 6 months. Not counting the insanity of spending 80+ hours a week in the hospital where you literally go home, sleep, wake up, go back to the hospital (bite me general surgery... bite me... 5am to 6pm 13 days straight with 2 30 hour shifts in there 5am to 11am the next day). It's a miserable experience because many aspects of rotations and residency are miserable.



Oh I don't doubt it's accurate, and it's probably fine to read before or after you start school.  It just has a heavy focus on the miserable/insane bits of medicine, and I don't see the need to be reminded of the negatives.  

I was only suggesting that once you decide to go down the path, you need to keep your drive and passion alive.  Negativity can seep in, and at least for me, it's important to make a conscious effort to focus on the positives.  I'll happily choose inspiration over realism.  No need to try to get jaded too early.

Samuel Shem wrote a couple of other books too.  I've only read "The Spirit of the Place" but I thought it was a much more productive (and productive) outlook on medicine. 

For Sublime: 

This defiantly can be done.  Being "poor" isn't the end of the world.

That said, your wife's worries are extremely important...she needs to be "all in" too.  Her worries may primarily "can we buy a house" now, but her concerns may change.  She is going to have to make big sacrifices for a long time (not seeing you as much, contagious stress, time and effort taking care of kids when you may not be able to help out, and supporting the family financially).  

She has to be "all in" too, and you need to keep focused on your family whatever you do.  DO NOT let your relationship play second fiddle.  I promise a divorce or even general home strife will make medicine much much much harder and make your life miserable.  

Be realistic...if she doesn't want to make those sacrifices, take it seriously.  It's her decision too: it will be hard for both of you, but you probably get more of the benefits.  In all likelihood you aren't going to gain riches or fame by going to medical school - you do it for happiness.  

If your wife isn't on board, happiness is probably not in the future.  You're already married with kids....your family is more important than medicine at this point.  You can have both, just keep your priorities in mind.


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