# UT San Antonio B.S Paramedic Program



## Fish (Feb 8, 2012)

I want to obtain my B.S in Paramedicene, has anyone done this through UT San Antonio that can tell me more about it?


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## STXmedic (Feb 8, 2012)

I haven't personally done it, but went through the school that puts it on and know a considerable bit about it. Whaddya need, señor?


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## shfd739 (Feb 8, 2012)

I know some of our folks are currently enrolled. As PI said what questions do you have?


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## Fish (Feb 8, 2012)

Really I am just curious as to how much benefit this specific B.S provides to a Paramedic, I know it covers budget and grant writing. BUt does it really focus heavily on management?


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## grant (Feb 11, 2012)

I hope you love the program as much as I did. Back then, (I am old school and one of the first few classes), the program was very well organized and tough. You couldn't be a slacker ever. I'm glad I graduated from this school and wouldn't trade my education there for anything. When I graduated, Mt. Sac was most certainly the best and perhaps the most difficult program in Ca, perhaps the U.S. and I hope it hasn't changed. 

As opposed to Daniel Freeman back then which graduated just about any goofy firefighter who wanted to play paramedic. LOL No Offense 

Anyhow, I can only go by my experience back then and the invaluable clinical knowledge the program gave me, especially in areas of cardiology and assessment skills. 

Lane could be a bit moody though. 

I don't think that in today's medical world, a BS in Emergency Medicine is going to get your very far-maybe into management which is a major grind and boring as hell.


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## STXmedic (Feb 11, 2012)

LoL I think you're thinking of a different program, Grant 

Fish, UTHSCSA isn't as heavy on management as some of the other Emergency Management degrees. It focuses more on the actual medical aspects: Advanced Pharm, patho, flight and critical care, that kind of stuff. Instructors are pretty good. The course is nice because you can pretty much work it at your own pace. However, if you're looking for more of a Management degree, there's much better ones out there.


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## grant (Feb 11, 2012)

I know. I put it in the wrong place.


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2012)

PoeticInjustice said:


> LoL I think you're thinking of a different program, Grant
> 
> Fish, UTHSCSA isn't as heavy on management as some of the other Emergency Management degrees. It focuses more on the actual medical aspects: Advanced Pharm, patho, flight and critical care, that kind of stuff. Instructors are pretty good. The course is nice because you can pretty much work it at your own pace. However, if you're looking for more of a Management degree, there's much better ones out there.



Well now I am at a Fork, because I want those courses but I also want the Management.


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2012)

Also, I am under the impression that a lot of it can be done online? And anyone know where the B.S portion does their clinical internship portions at?


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## STXmedic (Feb 11, 2012)

The entire thing can be done online. And for the clinical, I believe you just get a site near you cleared with the program, and do it there.


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## Fish (Feb 11, 2012)

PoeticInjustice said:


> The entire thing can be done online. And for the clinical, I believe you just get a site near you cleared with the program, and do it there.



Hmmmmmm, I do not know of any....... around me.

I wonder how well I would do with an online program. I know I could have never done well taking the Paramedic Course online.


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## systemet (Feb 12, 2012)

Fish said:


> I wonder how well I would do with an online program. I know I could have never done well taking the Paramedic Course online.



I've done some university courses by distance.  It's ok for stuff without a lab component.  Especially some of the introductory courses where you might be sitting in a classroom with 500 people in a traditional setting.  With really large classes the difference between distance and traditional delivery diminishes.

The problem occurs when you deal with courses with a lab or clinical component.  In principle, it should be just as possible to learn clinical material as, say calculus, by distance.  For me, it just feels like a classroom setting is better.  I think it's because these areas have psychomotor components that need labs, and that a lot of the time you learn important details from the instructor when they go off on some random tangent about a time they got beaten by an atypical presentation, or made a mistake.  Like most people, I've always liked to file those away and try and learn from someone else's mistake, before doing it myself.

Another issue is that a traditional university schedule forces you to do the work.  You have set days you have to be in lecture, no matter when your last night shift was.  It's a pain to organise your schedule around, and sometimes the two end up conflicting in a way you can't resolve.  But at the end of 13 weeks, you've completed 5 courses.  You might find it makes you work harder than normal.  On the other hand, typical schedules compress a lot of information into a short time period, and then give you a relatively long break over Christmas and betwen the last classes in spring, and the first classes in Fall.

I think the eventual decision is made by the circumstances.  If you can't afford to take the time off work, or aren't willing to make the necessary sacrifices, maybe distance is the best option.  I think, in most situations, there's going to be a better quality of education in a traditional setting.  But, if that's not an option, distance delivery is a lot better than nothing.

It also depends what you want to use the degree for.  If you just want a degree for general self-improvement / interest, etc.  then take whatever's interesting.  If you need a degree for a promotion or job competition, and it doesn't really matter what it's in / where it's from, then distance sounds great.  If you're planning on Harvard Medical School, you might want to take another option.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

systemet said:


> I've done some university courses by distance.  It's ok for stuff without a lab component.  Especially some of the introductory courses where you might be sitting in a classroom with 500 people in a traditional setting.  With really large classes the difference between distance and traditional delivery diminishes.
> 
> The problem occurs when you deal with courses with a lab or clinical component.  In principle, it should be just as possible to learn clinical material as, say calculus, by distance.  For me, it just feels like a classroom setting is better.  I think it's because these areas have psychomotor components that need labs, and that a lot of the time you learn important details from the instructor when they go off on some random tangent about a time they got beaten by an atypical presentation, or made a mistake.  Like most people, I've always liked to file those away and try and learn from someone else's mistake, before doing it myself.
> 
> ...



I think the fact that I am already a Paramedic will help with the distance issue, seeing as I already have a great grasps on A&P, Pharm, and Cardiology. So any classes tha further my education in this should come fairly easy wouldn't you think? Even if it is online.......

I work 160hours every 2 weeks and the school is hours away from me, so physically going to the classes is not an option.


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## Medic Tim (Feb 13, 2012)

I am currently doing a BS in Public safety administration with a concentration in EMS online through university of maine fort kent.


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## tcd (Feb 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> Well now I am at a Fork, because I want those courses but I also want the Management.



If you're interested in management with an eye towards eventually moving into a administrative role then I would suggest the following:

1. Go for the undergrad degree at UTSA 
2. Follow that up with a graduate management certificate  

A certificate usually ranges from around 9-18 hours, and while that might sound like a lot it'll look great on your resume if you're seeking to move into management.  Just about all well-known public and private universities now offer graduate-level certificates and degrees via online delivery.  For example, George Washington University offers both a MS (33hrs) or a certificate (18hrs) in Emergency Services Management.

Here are some other options in the healthcare field:

http://www.geteducated.com/profiles...Search by Level > Online Graduate Certificate

By the way, geteducated.com is a great tool for anyone looking for online education options from reputable universities.  Degreeinfo.com is another one.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> I am currently doing a BS in Public safety administration with a concentration in EMS online through university of maine fort kent.



Do you have a link to the Curriculum?


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

tcd said:


> If you're interested in management with an eye towards eventually moving into a administrative role then I would suggest the following:
> 
> 1. Go for the undergrad degree at UTSA
> 2. Follow that up with a graduate management certificate
> ...



appreciate it


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## kymedic25 (Feb 13, 2012)

I am graduating from the UTHSCSA program in May.  I am done with all of my classes and I finishing my last TX core curriculum class now.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

kymedic25 said:


> I am graduating from the UTHSCSA program in May.  I am done with all of my classes and I finishing my last TX core curriculum class now.



And how was it?


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm paying close attention to this thread. My next step is a bachelors in something, preferably related to paramedicine/EMS management but like you Fish, a traditional classroom style wont work due to work constraints. 

Like systemet pointed out it all seems great and dandy until you get to science classes with lab components.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

NVRob said:


> I'm paying close attention to this thread. My next step is a bachelors in something, preferably related to paramedicine/EMS management but like you Fish, a traditional classroom style wont work due to work constraints.
> 
> Like systemet pointed out it all seems great and dandy until you get to science classes with lab components.



From reading the site, I do not think the actual Bachelors component of it has any LAb portions.


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> From reading the site, I do not think the actual Bachelors component of it has any LAb portions.



I haven't taken a close look yet but how many credits do you have to carry into the program to apply?

Being young with my pants on fire going mach 10 I didn't take the best route with my collegiate education.


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## kymedic25 (Feb 14, 2012)

Fish said:


> And how was it?



Just like any program, you get out of it what you out into it. In the past couple of years, they've gotten rid of some of the classes that I wanted to take like critical care medicine. 

You get A touch on research, HR etc but not a lot of management.


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## systemet (Feb 14, 2012)

Fish said:


> I think the fact that I am already a Paramedic will help with the distance issue, seeing as I already have a great grasps on A&P, Pharm, and Cardiology. So any classes tha further my education in this should come fairly easy wouldn't you think? Even if it is online.......



This will depend a lot on how well these were taught within your paramedic program.  Most programs claim to teach anatomy & physiology "at a university level", but fall a little short (*Something that should raise suspicion here is that they combine two separate subjects into one course --- usually these are taught separately).  I don't know anything about where you trained, but I haven't seen a program yet where they make a serious claim to have gone beyond an introductory physiology course.

It will help compared to someone who just has high school biology.  In the best of worlds, it might be equivalent to an introductory physiology course.  But this depends greatly.  It's also a matter of what sort of anatomy and / or physiology you're looking at.  Even for introductory courses you usually have a number of options, e.g. "Physiology for Nurses", "Physiology for physical therapists", physiology courses aimed a general science students, or at honour's majors.  These will also vary greatly in their depth and scope.

My personal experience was that most of the material we covered that related to cardiac physiology in an introductory course was included in medic school.  There were other areas where I was less well prepared, like reproductive physiology, or endocrine physiology.

I don't think pharmacology is taught well in paramedic school.  I think most of us have an idea of what pharmacology is, and then it gets challenged when we encounter university education in this area.  Many of us seem to think that pharmacology is about memorising trade and generic names, specific dosing regimens, and a few contraindications, and maybe being able to say something like "dopamine is a positive dromotrope as it increases AV conduction velocity".  Or maybe "lidocaine is a Vaughan-Williams class IB antiarrhytmic because it decreases the slope of phase 0 depolarisation without lengthening or shortening the action potential duration".  

But, we generally have little or no idea why.  Most of us can list a number of effects of epinephrine at the beta-1 receptor, and we can say this has something to do with calcium.  Very few of us can talk intelligently about what happens after the receptor's occupied and activated, e.g G protein signalling cascades, cAMP, PKA, and various kinase events.  In the same thread, most of us can say "drug x is a vasoconstrictor acting at the alpha-1 adrenergic receptor".  But can't follow the Gq/Ga13 signalling pathways to describe why and how.  Our education is a little incomplete, even in areas we claim to know well.

Then factor in that pharmacology isn't just about the 30 - 100 drugs you might see on a typical ambulance or fixed / rotary wing platform.  Many of us may have briefly surveyed some of the prescription medications, and might have a cursory idea of what an ACE inhibitor is.  We may even be able to talk a little about the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone axis.  But when someone starts introducing cancer chemotherapeutics, we tend to get lost, because medic school doesn't give a good understanding of DNA replication and mitosis.  We don't learn about proofreading and error-correcting mechanisms.

So, I think medic school prepares you for pharmacology, but only in the narrow area that we work in.  It doesn't really cover the wider field.  This often becomes apparent when someone takes a nursing pharmacology course (these aren't generally any better on the cell biology level, just broader in scope and less specialised), or an introductory pharamacology course from a university pharmacology department.  They're not going to be as focused on autonomic, cardiac, vascular and neuromuscular pharmacology.

When you look at the higher (more specialised) courses, some of them are a lot more relevant.  I found I learned a lot of stuff that I felt should have bee covered in paramedic school.  But there's always a balance there.  Two years is a very short time to make someone a semi-autonomous provider.  It isn't really sufficient, as many of us have argued before, and our training should be more detailed.

I think being a paramedic will be really helpful, but I wouldn't expect it will automatically give you the background to go into specialised pharmacology or physiology courses.  You might be able to manage anyway, but you'll probably find you're lacking some areas.  You'll probably really enjoy CV physiology / pharmacology.  Half of university / anything is having the motivation to want to learn.

The other reality is you're unlikely to get most of these courses on-line.  For example, most universities will give a course specifically in "Neuromuscular pharmacology".  So, 3-4 hours a week for a semester of talking about the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor, and all the many different early and modern neuromuscular agents, many of which we don't use in the field (Did you know nicotine is a depolarising neuromuscular blocker like succinylcholine?).  But this requires having a number of research groups working in this area at the university.  And it needs enough students to have an interest for the course to be worth running.  So these sorts of courses don't typically end up getting offered on-line, because it's not financially viable.

Sorry for the long post.  I hope I didn't come across as an elitist *******, because that's not what I'm trying to do here.


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## Medic Tim (Feb 14, 2012)

Fish said:


> Do you have a link to the Curriculum?



http://umfk.edu/safety/administration/

if you have any more questions feel free to pm me


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## Emt512 (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm also interested in getting a bachelors in ems. For one, I plan on going to a PA school, which requires a BAchelors in most programs and at least helps on apps to any higher medical education. I live near San Antonio and I am looking into this program. It does require some college prior but I'm in contact with some people who are part of the admin. So I will give a sitrep as soon I find out more info.


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## Emt512 (Feb 22, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> http://umfk.edu/safety/administration/
> 
> if you have any more questions feel free to pm me



Is this program really 20k?!


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## Medic Tim (Feb 22, 2012)

Emt512 said:


> Is this program really 20k?!



You pay in state tuition. Closer to 25 it is much less if you transfer credits in.
I have an AAS degree in ems. They gave me transfer credit for just about everything, plus other classes I had taken over the years.

With work experience you don't need to do the 8 credit preceptorship. There are also some classes you can test out of.

If you have any more questions pm me.


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## FNGperpetual (Oct 7, 2013)

I went by the college the other day. The health and science bldg..no knew what i was looking for and i could not find ems instructors. But, here is a photo of the claas to take...i think the AAS in EMS + these class = B.S in EMS. 

I MAY GO FOR IT..BUT, I NEED TO GET MY WORK IN LINE AND COMPLETE PARAMEDIC..MAYBE AT SAC?? WHO HAS THE BEST CLINICAL EXPERIENCE? I HEAR UT HAS THE SAFD CLINICAL CONTRACT?


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## STXmedic (Oct 7, 2013)

FNGperpetual said:


> I went by the college the other day. The health and science bldg..no knew what i was looking for and i could not find ems instructors. But, here is a photo of the claas to take...i think the AAS in EMS + these class = B.S in EMS.
> 
> I MAY GO FOR IT..BUT, I NEED TO GET MY WORK IN LINE AND COMPLETE PARAMEDIC..MAYBE AT SAC?? WHO HAS THE BEST CLINICAL EXPERIENCE? I HEAR UT HAS THE SAFD CLINICAL CONTRACT?



Information and curriculum here. You must obtain your core curriculum elsewhere, and finish your paramedic degree. After completing the requisite upper-division classes from UTHSCSA, you will be awarded your BS in Emergency Health Sciences. The entirety of upper-division coursework is online.

Your caps hurt my eyes.

SAC rides out with smaller departments in the area: Schertz, Seguin, Acadian I believe, and a few others.

UTHSCSA from both the degree and CE side (there are two different programs) both ride out with SAFD. 

There are pros and cons to both program. When I went to paramedic school five years ago, I refused to go to SAC after my experience with their Basic program. A lot at SAC has changed as far as instructors go, but I am still frequently unimpressed by many of the students at SAC.


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## FNGperpetual (Oct 7, 2013)

What do you mean by core? Englesh, math, history..
Are there any other options for paramedic school in san antonio?

Thank you.


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## STXmedic (Oct 7, 2013)

FNGperpetual said:


> What do you mean by core? Englesh, math, history..
> Are there any other options for paramedic school in san antonio?
> 
> Thank you.



Yes, your basic core, lower division coursework. English, math, arts, history, polisci, etc.

No other good options. SAC has two programs, and UTHSCSA has two programs.

There used to be a program at Eagle Creek, not sure if that's still around. San Marcos used to put one on, not any more. 911 training concepts might do one, I'm not too sure.


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