# Volunteer fire department conflict............... I may quit.



## jedirye (Mar 7, 2007)

So I joined my neighborhood's local volunteer fire department to get "experience". In this area, we are the first on the scene. There is a medic on the beach as well but it takes a while for an ambulance to show up, so we are fairly important. I've lived my whole life here and loved the idea of giving back to this community and also fine tuning my skills, as I am a new EMT-B but will be attending medic school in Aug. Most people that join do not live in the immediate area, so I am a little set apart since I live in the area and am expected to attend those middle of the night calls. I have no objections, I love it!

My problem: It is a *fire department*. Despite 85% of the calls being medical, most of our training is fire or fire related, etc. I realize I have to take the "bad" with the "good" so I participate as much as I can although there's only so much to do when *1.* I really have no interest in fire and *2.* I don't want to take away from other people's training time who have a desire for this. The chief is pretty cool with it and just doesn't want me standing around doing nothing, which I frequently do because I have no idea what I'm doing most of the time. The assistant chief doesn't like it and another lieutenant doesn't either. My lieutenant and close friend had to "talk" with me tonight after training about it because the others pressured him. He knows my reasons for joining and he realizes I could really be an asset because I live on the beach, etc. so it was hard for him to tell me this. He said how the assistant chief said something about learning it ALL or turning in my shirt and pager. I did my best at participating beforehand, but that statement made me want to throw in the towel. You want to know why most kids my age join this department? *They pay for your fire school.* I did it because I could help my community and help with my basic skills. I feel like I've been slapped in the face... I really do... 

-rye


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## Nycxice13 (Mar 7, 2007)

ungrateful SOB's!

Leave em!


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## Stevo (Mar 7, 2007)

it's politics rye, that's how they sell their departments to the public...

~S~


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## akflightmedic (Mar 7, 2007)

I understand your frustration...believe me.

Remember, I too live and work in FL when not playing overseas. You did join a FIRE department, so of course most of their training is going to be fire. It is the law, they have to provide so much fire training a year and in certain areas. I do inderstand your motives for joining them, BUT you have to take the bad to get the good.

I am a medic who went through the fire academy twice!! I never had any desire to be a FF, and I still don't. The first time was in SC and then when I moved to FL they did not give reciprocity so I repeated it. How do you think I felt being middle aged and attending the academy with a bunch of 18 year olds.

You know as well as I do that living in Florida means 99 percent of the departments are Fire/Rescue. If you want any kind of decent wage, longevity and promotion opportunity, you will have to be dual certified. Yes there are a few systems left that are still seperate but they are fading fast. Fortunately, for people like me and you, who are EMS first, the ambulance is always considered a punishment or a low mans position; that means you can volunteer to be on the ambulance once you are hired and no one will complain or try to take it away from you. Plus, if you are a medic on the box, usually you end up treating patients or doing rehab on fire scenes. Not always the case as some ambulance crews are the first in but it is a possibility.

Having said all that, open your mind and gain a new perspective. Take whatever training they give you, no matter how boring it is. If they will send you to fire school on their dime...DO IT!! Once you are a medic and a FF, you can basically pick where you want to work. You will not be one of those FF/EMTs whining about no jobs and how a thousand people applied for 20 spots and the department only hired the medics...instead you will be one of those with a job.

Another way to handle this is to approach the training officer and ask if you can provide EMS training once a month. If you meet 4 times a month, surely one of those can be dedicated to EMS training. Take it upon yourself to set up a training session once a month. You can cover something simple and present it to the group, just make sure you are informed and comfortable presenting the material beforehand.

Good Luck!


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## firecoins (Mar 7, 2007)

get the fire training.  It will increase your experience.


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## jedirye (Mar 7, 2007)

You guys make me laugh! You make it seem like fire school is no big deal but to me, it is. I joined this fire department to decide whether or not I would like it; I *really *don't. I've got a scholarship for medic school and after that I want to do the year bridge to R.N. which I also have a scholarship for. I don't want to waste time doing things I'm not interested in, lapsing more time lengthening my end goal...
I guess I'm just trying to reason out quitting, and not making it an act of my present state of anger. We have training two days a week (Tues. 6:30p-10:30p and Sat. 8am-noon) and I attended every one I could, my only exception being if I had school and work. Do you think I enjoyed forking over 8 hours of my week like that? No. I did though, because I know I have to be a team player. Regardless, it is going to be so difficult going back there knowing that they think this about me and not even telling me to my face... Maybe when I become a medic they will think I'm worth keeping around? It is ridiculous because there aren't even that many EMT's there to begin with, only first responders if that...

-rye


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## firecoins (Mar 7, 2007)

you seem to have identified your own question.  you should join the ambulancve corp that responds or see about starting a separate first response unit within the fire department.  

Ask the chief if you could be in charge of the medical first response unit.  See if maybe the fire dept would be willing to get a fly car and stock it.


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## akflightmedic (Mar 7, 2007)

jedirye said:


> You guys make me laugh! You make it seem like fire school is no big deal but to me, it is. I joined this fire department to decide whether or not I would like it; I *really *don't. I've got a scholarship for medic school and after that I want to do the year bridge to R.N. which I also have a scholarship for. I don't want to waste time doing things I'm not interested in, lapsing more time lengthening my end goal...
> I guess I'm just trying to reason out quitting, and not making it an act of my present state of anger. We have training two days a week (Tues. 6:30p-10:30p and Sat. 8am-noon) and I attended every one I could, my only exception being if I had school and work. Do you think I enjoyed forking over 8 hours of my week like that? No. I did though, because I know I have to be a team player. Regardless, it is going to be so difficult going back there knowing that they think this about me and not even telling me to my face... Maybe when I become a medic they will think I'm worth keeping around? It is ridiculous because there aren't even that many EMT's there to begin with, only first responders if that...
> 
> -rye





Time for some of Ak's tough love.....


First, I give you a very serious answer because I have first hand knowledge of your situation and you say it makes you laugh...WTF??

IMO, judging by your responses, you are lacking in maturity. You have this " I will show them" attitude, like when you said "when I am a medic, maybe then they will want me"...I get a visual of a child pouting when I read that.

Is your department even ALS certified? If they hardly have any EMTs, what are you going to offer as a medic when the department is not licensed to perform as such? How are you going to be more valuable to the department other than having a different patch on your shoulder (along with that chip).

Again, I gave you a very viable solution regarding the training. Please address why this is not feasible. If you are unhappy with the lack of EMS trianing, what are YOU doing about it other than complaining. Take matters in your own hands and approach the department and offer training.

But after rereading, I dont think this is the issue so much. You seem to be hung up on what they are thinking about you and saying behind your back. Who cares? This will happen in every department regardless of certification level, rank, whatever. It is just a fact of life. I can not help but feel maybe there is more to this story. maybe you are coming across as cocky, I am better than you, you are all scum firemen and I want to be a medic attitude.

Anyways, what is your ultimate goal? Medic or Nurse?

As I said in my reply, if you want to be a medic, you know fire school is a part of that in Florida; so basically you have to suck it up and do what you hate. We all have done it, what makes you think you are so above that. I HATE firefighting. I hated repeating the academy. But I did it cause I wanted a career as a paramedic.

If your ultimate goal is to be a nurse, why waste time on medic school. The transition program is slightly longer than a year. Basically as long as you have all the pre requisites, being a medic allows you to skip the first semester of nursing school. Thats it. So why not just go straight to the nurse program? Being a medic does not help with the transition to nursing in the knowledge sense. If you have several years experience as a medic, sure you now have patient interview skills and are able to build rapport but when it comes to the knowledge base, there really is no comparison. 

I am asking thses questions not to challenge you but to maybe help you ask yourself what you want, help you identify your goals. 

So please, read this, calm yourself, read again and then reply in a rational manner. You asked for input so you got it.

I will always try to help people who are sincere and have legitimate questions or concerns.


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## jedirye (Mar 7, 2007)

_
First, I give you a very serious answer because I have first hand knowledge of your situation and you say it makes you laugh...WTF??_

I was not laughing at your responses, but the fact that it seems everyone is saying "Oh, just do the fire school and be done with it." It is almost humorous because that is the last thing I want. I took a phlebotomy class once and it was increasingly tough to stick with it because I found out I really had no interest in it. I have no doubt fire school would be like that.

_IMO, judging by your responses, you are lacking in maturity. You have this " I will show them" attitude, like when you said "when I am a medic, maybe then they will want me"..._

I do not feel I have the "I will show them attitude". I mentioned in my response that I wanted to make a sound decision, and not let my anger get the best of me.


_As I said in my reply, if you want to be a medic, you know fire school is a part of that in Florida; so basically you have to suck it up and do what you hate. We all have done it, what makes you think you are so above that. I HATE firefighting. I hated repeating the academy. But I did it cause I wanted a career as a paramedic._

My end goal is not to be a medic, but a nurse. I do not think firefighting would do me much good in a hospital. I do not feel I am above a firefighter, and I do not know where you could have come across that statement.

_If your ultimate goal is to be a nurse, why waste time on medic school. So why not just go straight to the nurse program? _

Very... very long waiting lists. I've been on one since '04-'05. Talk about time being wasted, eh?


Well, you guys suggested something about setting up a medical thing with my station. That really isn't a bad idea. It's ironic as my last training session I was mentioning something about scenerios with my fellow EMT's and they wanted to do some, etc. because we never do. I guess I will give it some thought if I stick with it. You are right though. I am a little bitter about them talking behind my back. I guess I feel that if you have something to say to me, say it to me. That would only be in a perfect world, correct? Oh well. I guess I've got some thinking to do...

I appreciate *all *the insight, the good with the bad  

-rye


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## akflightmedic (Mar 8, 2007)

You talk about not wasting time, yet you are willing to go through a medic course when that is not even your end goal???

Why dedicate all that time and study when you will not do the job very long at all?

Thanks for clarifying your responses and considering the training idea. Anyone can complain, but it takes someone special to think of ways to fix the problem and implement them.


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## jedirye (Mar 8, 2007)

I do not feel going through medic school is wasting time. To be honest, I have a real passion for this and have contemplated perhaps staying at the medic level because I am not really fond of working in a hospital. To be fair, however, I do not have much experience with it so...

I am intrigued by a medical training session but am not sure how to go about it. Also, I think it is a good idea, but I'm not too sure about having myself set it up. I can barely make it to one training day a week, let alone have another medical one. I work and go to school so my schedule is a little tight, but the summer is coming up so who knows. I guess maybe I'll talk to my lieutenant or  something, maybe just the EMTs at the station at least and something may catch on.


Off topic: Since I will be attending medic school in August, can you guys suggest any reading material that I can read before hand that will prep me a little? I would like to get a head start on some reading material that is not the required text book for medic class, maybe a shorter condensed version perhaps? Or anything really. I've tried looking online a bit but have come up empty handed...


Thanks!

-rye


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## firecoins (Mar 8, 2007)

try a book on pharmacolgy and interpreting EKGs


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## mfrjason (Mar 12, 2007)

Stevo is right,all it is is politics,its everywhere and hard to hide from it. When I first joined the service our ambulance wasnt tied in with the fire dept but back in the 80's it use to be part of it,so yeah,its not worth wasting time over,you were trained for only one thing...medical work,so if I was you I would resign from the dept and go find a medic service to work for so that way you dont have to deal with fire department politics.


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## Jon (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm confused.... is your station ALS or BLS? Do you have an ambulance? or a QRS/Fly Car? What is the medical response capability of your station.

Around here, some FD's have EMS as PART of the FD, and answer to the chief... some members run Fire only, some run both Fire and EMS, and a few only run EMS. Some are ALS, most are BLS... most are transport-capable, and a few just do QRS.


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## fyrdog (Mar 15, 2007)

Any fire department that also responds as a medical provider typically does 70% medical and 30% fire and other calls. 

You joined a fire department and despite the fact that 70% of the work is EMS they are a fire department and they respond to fires. Being a Firefighter myself I can tell you that the fire service is 200 years of tradition unhampered by progress. 

My understanding from your post is that your fire department requires it members to be firefighter and cross train in EMS. That is the way they run the department and until they make EMS only positions that is the way it is. I understand it is your community but the Chiefs run the department. I understand how that can be disappointing.


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## firecoins (Mar 15, 2007)

Jon said:


> I'm confused.... is your station ALS or BLS? Do you have an ambulance? or a QRS/Fly Car? What is the medical response capability of your station.
> 
> Around here, some FD's have EMS as PART of the FD, and answer to the chief... some members run Fire only, some run both Fire and EMS, and a few only run EMS. Some are ALS, most are BLS... most are transport-capable, and a few just do QRS.



If I am not mistaken, the fire department in reference does not transport patients. They are first responders and act like BLS until a formal BLS or ALS unit responds.


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## Jon (Mar 15, 2007)

fyrdog said:


> Being a Firefighter myself I can tell you that the fire service is 200 years of tradition unhampered by progress.


 
Ain't that the truth!


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## oldschoolmedic (Mar 17, 2007)

AK stop burning the tips off of your fingers trying to point out how he sounds like a petulant child. With his negative attitude he will soon be a paramedic that is disillusioned that his career is not what he imagined, anf that every call is not a miraculous save credited to him.

Rye, you are an emt who doesn't want to be in a fire department and do fire training. Then you are going to be a paramedic in a fire department who doesn't want to be a fire fighter or paramedic, but a nurse who doesn't want to work in a hospital. What will you be when you are finally happy? Reread your postings and in light of your being a Jedi, search your feelings.

AK offered good solid advice, and you thumbed your nose at it. He has actually walked the path you have put yourself upon and you ignore that at your own peril. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.


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## Flight-LP (Mar 17, 2007)

jedirye said:


> Off topic: Since I will be attending medic school in August, can you guys suggest any reading material that I can read before hand that will prep me a little? I would like to get a head start on some reading material that is not the required text book for medic class, maybe a shorter condensed version perhaps? Or anything really. I've tried looking online a bit but have come up empty handed...
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> ...



I think your best prep for your end goal would be exactly what AK suggested. Take these semesters that you have and get an education, get your prereq's and undergraduate basic studies out of the way. Then proceed to nursing school. Don't waste your time on becoming a half assed Paramedic for a year or two. You then waste your time, your agencies time (some of which will require you to sign a training contract and pay back if you do not stay), the taxpayers time, and ultimately become one more statistic in our long history of perceived lack of professionalism.

Bottom line, sometimes its just not always about you, especially in this industry..............


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## jedirye (Mar 20, 2007)

_Take these semesters that you have and get an education, get your prereq's and undergraduate basic studies out of the way. Then proceed to nursing school. _
Wish I could, but the prereq's have been done for a while. Just waiting for the list to go down so I can actually get in.

_Don't waste your time on becoming a half assed Paramedic for a year or two. _
Eh? I actually enjoy this and have mentioned that I may just stay at the medic level. That makes me "half assed"?

_AK offered good solid advice, and you thumbed your nose at it. He has actually walked the path you have put yourself upon and you ignore that at your own peril._
I am seriously considering his suggestion of starting some BLS training but getting started will be a little difficult, as I mentioned earlier.



Also as mentioned earlier, it is unfortunate that in most places in Florida the fire and rescue are combined which would really leave me no choice in getting my FF cert. My local volunteer fire department requires no certifications and basically just dedication. I got a little angered by the fact that I just wanted to help my community medically wise and they didn't accept that. Fair enough I suppose.

I have found a few local counties in Florida where the fire and rescue are not combined which is kind of cool and hopeful. I am not sure what the future holds for me, but realize that as I work more in this field I'll realize what I like and excel at which can help me further plot out my future.

-rye


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## MessyyJessyy (Jul 4, 2011)

I would leave


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## akflightmedic (Jul 4, 2011)

MessyyJessyy said:


> I would leave



Way to revive a thread from 2007 and add no value...


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## Aidey (Jul 4, 2011)

Seriously...At least they typed something in this thead. They bumped a thread from 2005 with an emoticon.


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## kbrodie694 (Jul 4, 2011)

*fire training*

I started as a firefighter and thought those guys with the bandaides were nuts for wanting to get near sick, bleeding people like that.  That was 19 years ago, when I was 16 years old.  After that I went to school for law enfocment graduated and got a volunteer postion on an ambulance that was starting up as a driver because of something that happened to my grandmother and I didn't have a clue what to do!  The private service offered to pay for a Basic class for anyone that wanted to go, didn't think it would be my thing but did it anyway thinking that if nothing else I will be able to help the medic a little more than I do now.  Well long story short I went on to become full-time and get my Intermediate and went to Paramedic school (unfortunely wasn't ready mentally and failed out) but have been in EMS for about 15 years.  Now working at a local hospital as a phlebotomist and every hospital personel have fire duties in the event of an emergency, and the training you get from the fire department no matter how stupid it may seem can be a big help in EMS to.
I have worked with both Private, Volunteer, Ambulance and Fire and Fire/Ambulance combinations and people who like one thing over another.  The ones who are the best EMS / Fire that I have worked with have been those that were willing to do the cross training.  Because they may not like doing the fire stuff but they know the background of it and can do it if needed.  Not all your patients will be laying on the beach!  So get over yourself you joined the fire department with the intent of giving back to the community so what you really need to ask yourself is do you still want to give back to the community or do you want to sit on the sidelines and watch the trucks drive by knowing that you could be doing something.  And yes I have sat on the side after getting burnt out, and sitting watching the trucks with lights and sirens going by.  It was harder than going to the call.  I stayed out just long enough that I had to start over.  So I am a basic looking to move up through to medic and this time I will make it!  
Fire training can be boring but if your department training officer is like most departments than they are always looking for ideas to improve training, make some suggestions on how it could be more interesting to you.
As far as the Lou and Asst. C forget about them, the cheif doesn't seem to mind what your doing and if they can't say something to you than that means they probably know what the chief thinks and don't dare to.  Even in EMS only squads there are people like them!


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## Lastrite (Jul 4, 2011)

*Pun intended?*

Anyone else catch the pun in "I took a phlebotomy class once and it was increasingly tough to stick with it"? 

It sounds for sure like you need to leave that volunteer department man. Not a good fit IMO. Good Luck!


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## Chimpie (Jul 4, 2011)

The community leaders have no problem with old threads being resurrected as long as the member provides content related to the topic.

With that said, please keep this on topic.


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## akflightmedic (Jul 4, 2011)

Chimpie said:


> The community leaders have no problem with old threads being resurrected as long as the member provides content related to the topic.
> 
> With that said, please keep this on topic.



Okey dokey...I think I will start a trend and go stir some up with 3 word responses...such as "I would leave", "that is bad"...and some other real hum dingers.  

As for this topic...I stand by my original on topic posts from 4 years ago or so.


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## ffemt8978 (Jul 4, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> Okey dokey...I think I will start a trend and go stir some up with 3 word responses...such as "I would leave", "that is bad"...and some other real hum dingers.
> 
> As for this topic...I stand by my original on topic posts from 4 years ago or so.



The CL's have dealt with the individual that started this little trend, and we will do the same to ANY member that violates this rule.  


> Participants may not bump threads. Bumping can refer to posting useless information, making corrections or updates in a new post, posting one-liners or any other action to deliberately keep a thread hot or to bring it to the top of Recent or Today's Posts. Community Leaders will use their discretion, depending on the nature of the post, as to whether to take action or not.


To reiterate Chimpie's point, we allow people to dig up years old threads because when we didn't we always received complaints that the same topics kept coming up again and again.  So it is a choice of having members dig up old threads or having dozens of threads on the exact same topic simply because the thread was closed due to age.  As long as a post contributes something meaningful to the old thread, it's fine.  Post a bunch of junk such as one or two word comments or smilies, and it will be dealt with.


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## DillR (Jul 4, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> Okey dokey...I think I will start a trend and go stir some up with 3 word responses...such as "I would leave", "that is bad"...and some other real hum dingers.
> .


I lol'd

on topic, everyone has to do training they find boring or unnecessary, just part of the game, I wouldn't quit just because you have to do something you don't like. no such thing as knowing too much.




-Doc


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