# Opinion: Military veteran medics could alleviate critical shortage



## MMiz (Jul 30, 2009)

*Opinion: Military veteran medics could alleviate critical shortage*

Lost in the national debate over health care is a frightful fact: In small towns and big cities alike, emergency medical systems operate at or near capacity, leaving them ill-equipped to handle any sudden or unanticipated surge in demand.

Military veterans with medical training are ideal candidates to relieve some of the stress on this system, but instead of embracing them and honoring their skills and service, they are blocked by bureaucratic red tape.

*Read more!*


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## HotelCo (Jul 30, 2009)

I believe they should have to take (and obviously pass) something like a refresher course, but more rigorous. Then, of course make sure they pass the NREMT or whichever exam the state they want to work in uses. 



> Each year the Army's Department of Combat Medic Training turns out 8,000 graduates. The curriculum combines civilian emergency medical skills with the latest techniques in battlefield medicine.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

Hotel, the first 8 weeks of the Army's medic school is NREMT-B.

68W's are certified as EMT-Bs, not medics or I's.  They already have the NREMT-B, so the transition shouldn't be much more.



How much alleviation can the author expect at "releasing?" basics in a primarily medic area?


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## Fireguy (Jul 30, 2009)

"That's why this amendment calls for veterans to undergo a regimen that accounts for their previous training and experience and prepares them to operate in a civilian environment."

I believe that is a great idea.  Create a specific program just for transitioning vets.  It is also important to keep in mind that military medics all have different experience.  Some medics spend thier days fixing blisters and signing sick hall slips. Please understand im not bashing military medics here and in no way am I putting all of them into that profile.  I have met very professional and expirenced medics but at the same time a medic in my unit gave someone hextend on accident instead of saline.


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## HotelCo (Jul 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Hotel, the first 8 weeks of the Army's medic school is NREMT-B.
> 
> 68W's are certified as EMT-Bs, not medics or I's.  They already have the NREMT-B, so the transition shouldn't be much more.



I wasn't speaking about Bs. I was talking more along the lines of medics/Is.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

Looking at the combat medic curriculum, they are basics that can do Combi's, IVs, Cricothyrotomy, and needle decompression.   Still very much a basic though.  

I can't speak from personal experience, only what I gathered from friends who are 68Ws and recruiters, but they don't even have the education of an I.  Not sure I'd let them attempt for the P.


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## HotelCo (Jul 30, 2009)

Remember, 68Ws aren't the only military medic. Remember some of those Corpsman? 

We have a guy in my class that is a military medic (Army, I believe), he never even saw a CombiTube until a while into medic class He's a Nationally Registered, licensed Basic.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

Yea, I was looking for Corpsman training as well, but their curriculum isn't as easy to find.  I also find very little on the Air Forces medics.


Plus the author of the article was clearly speaking of the Army basic medics (Non SPECOPS).


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## HotelCo (Jul 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Yea, I was looking for Corpsman training as well, but their curriculum isn't as easy to find.  I also find very little on the Air Forces medics.
> 
> 
> Plus the author of the article was clearly speaking of the Army basic medics (Non SPECOPS).



Perhaps, but I'm sure they would try to apply this so medics of every branch of service.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

Agreed, but you'd have to go for the lowest common denominator, which is the basic level that I'm fairly confident (without searching) that every branch certifies their medics at.


I think 18D is the only place that they certify you for higher then a Basic.


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## Flight-LP (Jul 30, 2009)

PJ's are certified Paramedics.............


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## usafmedic45 (Jul 30, 2009)

Not all of them....some of them are EMT-Is.  Last time I checked, it depends upon which MAJCOM they were assigned to.  However, most of them are EMT-P qualified and are poor comparisons to your "average" military medic (like comparing a Green Beret to the guys in the motor pool) who is barely a basic EMT).  The standard Air Force "medic" is the medical technician (4N0X1, unless they've changed the AFSC in the past few years) is simply a basic EMT and having tutored a LOT of them for extra cash during both their clinicals and their classroom portions, they are not all that well educated.  It is a _very_ dumbed down version of the EMT course and they really should not be allowed to upgrade simply because of some misplaced idea of being nice to veterans. 

Now, Navy corpsmen...that's a whole other story...they tend to be exceptionally well trained and are probably right below the PJs on the list of groups I would consider for this.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> PJ's are certified Paramedics.............



But doesn't the AF send their PJs to 18D school?


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## Flight-LP (Jul 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> But doesn't the AF send their PJs to 18D school?



Nope, unless the 18D's are now going to Kirkland AFB..............

Steve,
          I would be interested in seeing what the 4N0 tech school is like these days. I've heard from several folks that it, just as the 68W school, has been really dumbed down. I went through Sheppard's program back in '96 and found it to be rather simplistic, although I did enjoy the nursing emphasis they placed in the program. To me, that 14 weeks was what an EMT course should be. The basics, plus extra instruction on ADL's, lifting and moving, hygeine and sanitation, and basic interpersonal skills. Its really a shame that these topics never made it into the civilian world, many would benefit from them...............


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## usafmedic45 (Jul 30, 2009)

> I would be interested in seeing what the 4N0 tech school is like these days. I've heard from several folks that it, just as the 68W school, has been really dumbed down.



Well, I got out of the Air Force in 2003, so I'm not sure how things have changed since then however, I think your assessment hit it right on the nose.  It was just an extreme glossing over of the EMS side with some nursing stuff thrown in.  The EMS education was so lacking that I had to spend a lot of time going over things with groups of students just so they could pass the NREMT exam.  It was really sad to see large chunks of the classes fail such a simple exam....that tells you where the educational quality was at.  

One of the instructors told me that it was not unusual to have 20-25% fail the exam the first time around.  Of course, those of us over in cardiopulmonary tends to track between a 60-80% failure rate but then again we were getting RT + echo crammed down our throats (roughly three years of education) in three months but the volume of knowledge was a several fold increase.


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## triemal04 (Jul 31, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> Nope, unless the 18D's are now going to Kirkland AFB..............


Actually I believe new PJ's are now being sent to take the "short course" at Fort Bragg (roughly half of the 18D training) instead of paramedic training at Kirkland.  A couple that I met awhile back (who were both EMT-I's if I remember right) mentioned something about that being in the works.


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## mycrofft (Jul 31, 2009)

*PJ's when I was in were paramedics and quite a few did it as their civilian job.*

So basically they are making the radical suggestion of volunteer EMS, but using the huge potential (_*potential*_) pool of ex-military medics etc etc?
Gee, why didn't anyone else ever think of that? 

Actually, I tried for a year to get our med techs in the Neb Air Guard (then it was the 155th TacClinic) to be scheduled for clinical rotations at local hospitals. Best we cold do was the local little old VA hospital, and the first three times all they wold let them do was mop, carry water pitchers and empty urinals after someone else measured them and recorded the output. Not totally useless, but not useful for people supposed to go to a second echelon medical facility.


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