# No drivers license



## wam (Dec 1, 2009)

Hello.
I am very sorry if this is not the correct place to post this.
I am currently investigating a career in the EMT / paramedic field. Unfortunately do to a vision disability I am not able to obtain a drivers license. To be clear I am able to see well. The disability does not overly impair my day to day activities, and any previous jobs that I have had.
What I am wondering is if a drivers license is an absolute necessity for working in the field. On most of the educational institution websites that I have visited they list a drivers license as a requirement for their programs. Any information relating to any jurisdiction would be appreciated. I would be willing to relocate to an area that would allow me to work.

Thanks!!


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## rescue99 (Dec 1, 2009)

wam said:


> Hello.
> I am very sorry if this is not the correct place to post this.
> I am currently investigating a career in the EMT / paramedic field. Unfortunately do to a vision disability I am not able to obtain a drivers license. To be clear I am able to see well. The disability does not overly impair my day to day activities, and any previous jobs that I have had.
> What I am wondering is if a drivers license is an absolute necessity for working in the field. On most of the educational institution websites that I have visited they list a drivers license as a requirement for their programs. Any information relating to any jurisdiction would be appreciated. I would be willing to relocate to an area that would allow me to work.
> ...



You don't need a drivers license to get an EMT but, to work the road, yes.
Nothin says you can't use it in a different care setting though.


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## medichopeful (Dec 1, 2009)

wam said:


> Hello.
> I am very sorry if this is not the correct place to post this.
> I am currently investigating a career in the EMT / paramedic field. Unfortunately do to a vision disability I am not able to obtain a drivers license. To be clear I am able to see well. The disability does not overly impair my day to day activities, and any previous jobs that I have had.
> What I am wondering is if a drivers license is an absolute necessity for working in the field. On most of the educational institution websites that I have visited they list a drivers license as a requirement for their programs. Any information relating to any jurisdiction would be appreciated. I would be willing to relocate to an area that would allow me to work.
> ...



If you can't get an EMT job on an ambulance, you could look at being an ER tech.


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## sbp7993 (Dec 2, 2009)

You don't need a driver's license. I got my EMT license when I was sixteen and hadn't had my driver's license yet. I got a volunteer position without my driver's license also. Now I have my license and still don't use it. I work in the back of the ambulance with the patient instead of driving.


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## medicdan (Dec 2, 2009)

It depends entirely on your region. Some areas (or insurance companies) dont allow new (or young) employees to drive. EMTs can also be employed elsewhere. Consider looking into working at a summer camp, ER, Urgent Care, etc.


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## nomofica (Dec 2, 2009)

Where I'm from you must have your Class 4 driver's licence (which allows you to operate an ambulance) as a prerequisite to enter an EMT program.


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## rescue99 (Dec 2, 2009)

sbp7993 said:


> You don't need a driver's license. I got my EMT license when I was sixteen and hadn't had my driver's license yet. I got a volunteer position without my driver's license also. Now I have my license and still don't use it. I work in the back of the ambulance with the patient instead of driving.



Nice boss. You are a rare exception. Personally, except for an occasion, I expect my partner to be equal in the sharing of our duties...all of them.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Dec 2, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Nice boss. You are a rare exception. Personally, except for an occasion, I expect my partner to be equal in the sharing of our duties...all of them.



+1

IMHO, and in my area, if you are working EMT/EMT or Medic/Medic, both of you had better be capable of driving and split the duties as evenly as possible.  If you are working EMT/Medic then the EMT will usually assume the majority of the driving and the Medic will take most of the patient care.  However, both must be capable of driving.  Any other system limits the the crews flexability and religates crew members to certain jobs, not allowing everyone to drive (and get away from the patients) or provide care (and do the job I hope you got into EMS for).

That said, this only applies to Ambulance gigs.  Likewise, other Emergency Services Jobs will require you to drive to the emergency.  However, there are other ways to work as an EMT (or in other related job fields) without driving, including Hospital and Private Business (Camps, Recreational Faciliites, Correctional Facilities, etc...).

Sorry, but while you can get your EMT with this condition (in most areas), it is unlikely that you will be hired by any Ambulance Service.  I believe there was a thread early this year where someone asked a similar question.  They had a history of seizures and wanted to know if they could be an EMT...  same answer was given...  In a world where we preach "you can do anything / be anything you want to be" the reality is that those words are just "feel good" encouraging words that are not always true...  we all have limitations in abilities and capabilities, physical or otherwise and have to live within those limitations...  seizures, deafness, sight, back problems, weight issues, mental disorders...  learn to accept them and then manage them...  Of course, this is never an excuse to feel sorry for oneself and to not give it your all, whatever it is you are capable of doing.


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## BenndaleEMT (Dec 2, 2009)

I work with a Paramedic who does not drive our Rigs. He has a vision disability also but he does have a valid state DL. The reason he doesn't drive is because the "company" will not allow him to drive! He is one of the best medics we have he just doesn't drive... and it's not a big deal to anyone. 

However I can see where being a Basic (especially trying to hire-on somewhere) would definitely require a driver's license, unless you were restricted to BLS calls which is not what most get into this business to do.
But as others have said there are many things you can do that do not require you to drive.


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## fortsmithman (Dec 3, 2009)

Actually ESA in Sherwood park only requires a class 5
http://www.esacanada.com/programs_technician.php

AHASTI in Calgary also only requires a class 5
http://www.safetyed.ca/info/emt

Most other programs in Alberta require a class 4


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## nomofica (Dec 3, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> Actually ESA in Sherwood park only requires a class 5
> http://www.esacanada.com/programs_technician.php
> 
> AHASTI in Calgary also only requires a class 5
> ...



Really? I assumed ESA did ambulance operation training... But I guess not?


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## nemedic (Dec 3, 2009)

In MA, in order to take the state exam, you need to have a class D DL. (the basic level license)


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## medicdan (Dec 3, 2009)

nemedic, I dont think that is true. I have several friends who work for a non-transporting agency who do not have a DL. For the practical and written exams, you need government issued photo-ID, which could be a passport as much as a DL. Consider re-checking the OEMS documents.


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## JPINFV (Dec 3, 2009)

nemedic said:


> In MA, in order to take the state exam, you need to have a class D DL. (the basic level license)



...or, apparently, a class C license from California. To think, they didn't even ask to see my (expired) ambulance endorsement (California ambulance driver certificate).


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## sbp7993 (Dec 3, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Nice boss. You are a rare exception. Personally, except for an occasion, I expect my partner to be equal in the sharing of our duties...all of them.



Well the reason why I still don't use my license is because at my company you have to be 21 to drive...I'm still to young. If I am still volunteering as an EMT by the time I am 21 then I will drive. Our duties are equal, I do just as much work just in a different way. I care for the patient and write the run forms. They drive.


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## Sasha (Dec 3, 2009)

sbp7993 said:


> Well the reason why I still don't use my license is because at my company you have to be 21 to drive...I'm still to young. If I am still volunteering as an EMT by the time I am 21 then I will drive. Our duties are equal, I do just as much work just in a different way. I care for the patient and write the run forms. They drive.



I think there is more responsibility and more work for a non driver than on a shift than there is for a driver. You get every single patient, do all the paperwork, and anything that goes wrong is your responsiblity (aside from crashing the ambulance or getting a ticket).


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## JPINFV (Dec 3, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I think there is more responsibility and more work for a non driver than on a shift than there is for a driver. You get every single patient, do all the paperwork, and anything that goes wrong is your responsiblity (aside from crashing the ambulance or getting a ticket).



Yea... but if I had to choose between driving all day or attending all day, then I'd rather attend. At least when attending you can always sleep on your way back to quarters.


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## fortsmithman (Dec 3, 2009)

nomofica said:


> Really? I assumed ESA did ambulance operation training... But I guess not?



Under NWT and Alberta law a holder of a class 5 licence may opertae any vehicle in classes 1 to 4 as a learner only.  Which means they need a driver with them with the appropriate licence class.


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## TheMowingMonk (Dec 4, 2009)

here in california i only of only one company that will hire you as a paramedic with out a drivers lisence but I know of no where that will hire an EMT without one. for the same reasons others have mentioned before, they need people to be able to switch off when needed. Especially as An EMT because we are an ALS rich county which mean most of what EMTs due is drive. So drivers lisence is definatly necessary to get a job.


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## rescue99 (Dec 4, 2009)

sbp7993 said:


> Well the reason why I still don't use my license is because at my company you have to be 21 to drive...I'm still to young. If I am still volunteering as an EMT by the time I am 21 then I will drive. Our duties are equal, I do just as much work just in a different way. I care for the patient and write the run forms. They drive.



I admit, it's nice break to do all the driving sometimes.


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## Outbac1 (Dec 4, 2009)

Not being able to get a drivers license will severly limit your prospects for getting a job in EMS. As others have said there are other options for work. Here you have to have a drivers license to work on an ambulance. There are some hospitals that hire as well for work in the ER. You will have to check around your area to see who is hiring and their driving policies.


Good luck.


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## JCampbell (Dec 4, 2009)

At my company you don't need a drivers license to work as an EMT at any level. You are also paid the same as one who can drive. Another local company pays $.75 less per hour to non-drivers, bringing your starting Basic pay down to $13 per hr.  I don't personally know of ANY public service in the area that will hire non-drivers though.


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## sbp7993 (Dec 4, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Yea... but if I had to choose between driving all day or attending all day, then I'd rather attend. At least when attending you can always sleep on your way back to quarters.


Well the people who I work with prefer to drive so luckily this isn't a problem.


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## sbp7993 (Dec 4, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I think there is more responsibility and more work for a non driver than on a shift than there is for a driver. You get every single patient, do all the paperwork, and anything that goes wrong is your responsiblity (aside from crashing the ambulance or getting a ticket).



completely agree


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## medicdan (Dec 4, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I think there is more responsibility and more work for a non driver than on a shift than there is for a driver. You get every single patient, do all the paperwork, and anything that goes wrong is your responsiblity (aside from crashing the ambulance or getting a ticket).



I... disagree.

Ultimately, the driver has the highest responsibility-- they can not only kill the patient, but also their partner, and themselves. At least in MA, if there is any legal inquiry regarding care, if both providers are at the same level, they are both found equally responsible, even if one was driving at the time. Although I still fairly new to the game, I have worked in EMS for 2 years, and am put with new EMTs fairly often. It's a hard decision on my part-- whether I want to tech a trainwreck patient or drive it. 
If my name is on the paperwork, I always reserve the right to read it, and if I have something to say about it, will ask my parter to change things. Again, if I am on a BLS ambulance, I am still equally responsible for patient care as my partner, even if I dont touch the patient.


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## zmedic (Dec 4, 2009)

When I was on the street driving was a two person job. The person in the passenger side is responsible for checking my blind spot, clearing me through that side of the intersection, etc. I'd be concerned that someone who can't see well enough to drive can't see well enough to tell me that I'm about to get hit my some crazy driver. 

Also unless the company hires people to only drive, it's not really fair to your partner that when working together you get to attend on every patient and they always have to drive all the time. I don't think I'd be willing to work more than a shift or two with such a person. Yeah I like going lights and siren but the point of the job is to get to take care of patients.


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## JPINFV (Dec 4, 2009)

zmedic said:


> When I was on the street driving was a two person job. The person in the passenger side is responsible for checking my blind spot, clearing me through that side of the intersection, etc. I'd be concerned that someone who can't see well enough to drive can't see well enough to tell me that I'm about to get hit my some crazy driver.



Truth be told, you shouldn't need someone to check your blind spots. Slow down and use your AA (atlanto-axial joint) joint to its fullest. You don't have a passenger when transporting.


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## Sasha (Dec 4, 2009)

zmedic said:


> *When I was on the street driving was a two person job. *The person in the passenger side is responsible for checking my blind spot, clearing me through that side of the intersection, etc. I'd be concerned that someone who can't see well enough to drive can't see well enough to tell me that I'm about to get hit my some crazy driver.
> 
> Also unless the company hires people to only drive, it's not really fair to your partner that when working together you get to attend on every patient and they always have to drive all the time. I don't think I'd be willing to work more than a shift or two with such a person. Yeah I like going lights and siren but the point of the job is to get to take care of patients.



So you ran three person trucks, or left the patient alone in the back to drive?

I was a non driving paramedic for awhile. I hated that more than when I was an EMT for non driving paramedics, I did most all the work and often times they copped out with the "I'm just the driver" attitude. 

If you work for a company that holds you responsible for things that happen in the back of the ambulance when you are driving, i'd either find a partner you trust with your license or another job. That's ridiculous.


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## JPINFV (Dec 4, 2009)

Sasha said:


> If you work for a company that holds you responsible for things that happen in the back of the ambulance when you are driving, i'd either find a partner you trust with your license or another job. That's ridiculous.



No one ever said that the Massachusetts was the brightest crayon in the union (see point 18).


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## medicdan (Dec 5, 2009)

Sasha said:


> If you work for a company that holds you responsible for things that happen in the back of the ambulance when you are driving, i'd either find a partner you trust with your license or another job. That's ridiculous.



Naah, it just means that I am aware of what my partner is doing. I am with them on scene, and we perform the assessment together, and in the truck, I listen to what is going on. This is all, of course, if I dont know my partner, or don't trust them. I have no problem, remaining respectful, disagreeing with a treatment if I think it will endanger the patient. If it will not immediately harm the patient, I wait until after patient care is relinquished.


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## nemedic (Dec 5, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> nemedic, I dont think that is true. I have several friends who work for a non-transporting agency who do not have a DL. For the practical and written exams, you need government issued photo-ID, which could be a passport as much as a DL. Consider re-checking the OEMS documents.



I did, and I realize I am mistaken. I am currently trying to get some part time or per diem work with one of the many ambulance companies, and all wanted DL info. I went an re read the info on the OEMS site, and didn't notice the following paragraph (copied and pasted direct from the OEMS site):
"ASSESSMENT PROCESS/LOSS OR SUSPENSION OF DRIVER’S LICENSE
1. Upon receipt of such a report, OEMS staff will verify the information with the Registry of Motor Vehicles.
2. All ambulance and EFR services are required to ensure that no one whose driver’s license is suspended or
revoked serves on an ambulance or EFR vehicle as an EMT or EFR. Having a current, valid driver’s license is
required in order to serve in these roles on an ambulance or EFR vehicle. 105 CMR 170.285.
3. If OEMS staff verifies that an EMT’s or EFR’s driver’s license has been revoked, it will note the term of
revocation in the EMT’s file. This would not affect the EMT’s or EFR’s certification, but this will bar the
EMT or EFR from working in these roles on an ambulance or EFR vehicle."

I think the part i didn't think of was that it wouldn't affect the cert of anyone if they didn't have/lost DL (for non crime reasons), it would just mean that they couldn't work on an ambulance.


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## nemedic (Dec 5, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> No one ever said that the Massachusetts was the brightest crayon in the union (see point 18).



I wasn't aware of anyone that wasn't either a politician or a "friend" of a politician (= cushy gov't job) that DID think MA was the brightest crayon in the union


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## zmedic (Dec 5, 2009)

JPINFV; said:
			
		

> Truth be told, you shouldn't need someone to check your blind spots. Slow down and use your AA (atlanto-axial joint) joint to its fullest. You don't have a passenger when transporting.



I drive differently with a patient in back than on the way to the scene. The point is what do you think when your partner who is sight impaired tells you it's clear on his side? Yeah, I can look, but it's pretty hard to look through my partner to see what's coming out his window. 

Just saying having someone who is good in the passenger seat helps when driving emergent. But that's much less an issue than having someone who can never drive unless your company has a lot of people who are hired just to drive and not to attend.


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## Sasha (Dec 5, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> Naah, it just means that I am aware of what my partner is doing. I am with them on scene, and we perform the assessment together, and in the truck, I listen to what is going on. This is all, of course, if I dont know my partner, or don't trust them. I have no problem, remaining respectful, disagreeing with a treatment if I think it will endanger the patient. If it will not immediately harm the patient, I wait until after patient care is relinquished.



Personally I'd like my partners to concentrate on driving as oppose to listening to the back because they aren't comfortable with me. They can more easily warn me about bumps, sharp turns, and are less likely to make hard stops etc, if they are actually paying attention to the road and not to what's in back. And what would you do if you disagree and thinking they are endangering the patient? Endanger all your lives by having a shouting match? 

My partners ( I have specific ones) know all they need to listen for is me talking specifically to them, and I know how to get their attention if I need them either to pull over and help me quickly or upgrade or downgrade our transport.


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## fortsmithman (Dec 8, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> Naah, it just means that I am aware of what my partner is doing. I am with them on scene, and we perform the assessment together, and in the truck, I listen to what is going on. This is all, of course, if I dont know my partner, or don't trust them. I have no problem, remaining respectful, disagreeing with a treatment if I think it will endanger the patient. If it will not immediately harm the patient, I wait until after patient care is relinquished.



Personally I'd much rather have the emt/medic who is driving to pay attention to the road.  Let the other emt/medic who is doing pt care do pt care.  If you don't trust your partner the request a new one.  Because if you get into an MVA because you were concentrating on the pt instead of the road them criminal charge will most likely be laid against the driver with a risk of civil suits ton follow.


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