# PA Ambulance being investigated



## ffemt8978 (Mar 13, 2008)

Pa-Ambulance-Service-Investigated-in-Mistreatment-Complaint



> The Versailles Volunteer Fire Company's ambulance service is under investigation following a complaint filed by borough resident Randy Kovach who said he was mistreated by rescue workers.
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Anyone want to comment on this one?


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## Airwaygoddess (Mar 13, 2008)

Document, document, document.  The patient sounded that he was alert and oriented x4.  Did the responding agency advise the patient of the of the risks,and complications of refusing care, and have him sign a refusual of treatment form?  Could it been possible for that agency to stand by with that patient until the other agency could respond and take over care?  It is going to be an interesting story to follow.....


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## firecoins (Mar 13, 2008)

Sounds alot like B.S.  If he has enough mental energy to worry about which ambulance company is picking him up than he probably wasn't having an emergency.  RMA him.  Wait for the "other" company to get there and stay in the truck while waiting.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 13, 2008)

firecoins said:


> Sounds alot like B.S.  If he has enough mental energy to worry about which ambulance company is picking him up than he probably wasn't having an emergency.  RMA him.  Wait for the "other" company to get there and stay in the truck while waiting.



This is hypothetically speaking for discussion purposes only, as I have absolutely no factual basis for these comments.


The guy is concerned enough over his back that he believes it requires "expert", ALS level care to treat him because he fell and called for emergency services.  Yet once the ambulance arrives, he is more concerned about being called names and the fact that his American Legion post is involved with a feud with the responding agency.  

Once he is released from the hospital, with NO further injury to his back, what does this law student do?  He contacts the FBI, the AG's office, the ACLU, and the borough council.  While he may have legitimate charges, and his rights may have been violated, I'm forced to wonder a few things.

1)  What were the circumstances around the "prior harassment by a fire company member"?  I know he said he was subject to verbal abuse because of his sexual orientation, but, seriously, how did it come about in the first place?
2)  WTF is going on that the American Legion is involved in a dispute with a local fire company?
3)  If they wanted the private ambulance company to respond, why didn't they call them directly?
4)  What type of headlines do you think we would be reading if the vollies had granted his wishes, and left him laying on the sidewalk until the other ambulance company arrived, especially if he had injured his back further?  Assuming, of course, that the paid service was even available for the call.


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## firetender (Mar 13, 2008)

On another level I think a person has the right to refuse service or to insist that they not be touched by responding emergency personnel if they do not feel safe. I also believe that if they're willing to sign a release for one crew, they have the right to wait for another service to transport them.

Granted, I smell a rat in this scenario that may be a set up for some kind of revenge, but still, if I crash my motorcycle in a district where I believe the medics are incompetent, untrained or at odds with me personally, I will scream to the heavens that_ I will not be touched._

_And the key is, *if the guy did not want to be touched by the Vollies, how did he end up at the hospital?*_


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## LucidResq (Mar 13, 2008)

This just sounds so fishy. I just cannot imagine them forcing him against his will to go the hospital with them and calling him a "sissy" despite him screaming his head off. It just doesn't make sense... why would they go through the trouble? 

Maybe he was acting like such a combative nut case they thought he had a head injury or was drunk or something.


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## certguy (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm with you guys , I smell a rat too . It sure seems more like a vendetta against that fire company for whatever reason they may have . The average pt. who thinks they've been mistreated looks for a lawyer and maybe , the EMS agency for that county , not the FBI , AG , and whatever other goverment agencies he can get involved . 2 interesting points ; If he gets that fire company shut down , people will die and if you worked for that other agency , would you be walking on eggshells the next time you pick him up . If he does it once , he'll probably try it again if he doesn't get satisfaction from whoever else treats him . Isn't our legal system wonderful ???


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 13, 2008)

Simple enough, inform him of his risks, sign a refusal and leave his arse on the ice. If he is able to yell and scream, then he is fine enough to leave alone. 


Seriously, why would security have to be called *after* he arrived the ER? 

Sounds like he was fishing for problems? Who knows if the whole scenario was not made up for a reason. 

I agree, people can have the right to choose.. that is if there is the ability to do so. For example my EMS is the only EMS to provide care within the region. If you don't like us, your on own. No other service is allowed to provide care within this region as we have sole provider clause as other regions do the same, unless mutual aid is called. In other words, appreciate what you have. 

I agree, what does American Legion, have to do with any of this? As well, kinda jumping the gun calling all the big boys out first. It would be more appropriate to notify local/state EMS authoritative. Now, he has shot all his chances and probably labeled as an "old loony". If not careful, he will be in more hot water than he started out. 

R/r 911


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## Ops Paramedic (Mar 14, 2008)

Nasty one!!

Its amazing how people can be so inconsiderate.  They call to come and help them, just to find upon your arrival, they don't want it.  Why call then??  

1.  This call was not made from public domain like the highway, where nurous people can call numerous services, so why call the one you don't like.
2.  Hoping for the crew members that the suite is civil suite against the service/company, rather than against them.  I think it will be more difficuilt to get a fouvarble verdict against the company.
3.  He knows alot for a person who is screaiming from pain not to be treated
4.  I don't know of any one who will treat a patient against his will (We all know the consequences), providing the patient is not a danger to himself or society, or is not 100% with us.  And that was not the case here.
5.  Did the ambulance chaiser "accidently" slip to fall OR did the ambulance chaiser "accidently" slip to fall??


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## TgerFoxMark (Mar 17, 2008)

Ops Paramedic said:


> Nasty one!!
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> Its amazing how people can be so inconsiderate.  They call to come and help them, just to find upon your arrival, they don't want it.  Why call then??
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We have been having that issue around here, ever since a well known ambulance chaser showed up in our area.
I seem to see this alot. 911 call for "Chest Pain" we get there, and the p.t. is in no obvious distress, but insists on being transported. drop at ED. come back on another run, find out he walked out of ED, not discharged, just walked. Love this one too...  end up picking said person up again, PASSED out in a downtown bar.  2wks later we get notice from a lawer saying that we did not render care. thank god we kept good docs. He refused all treatment the first time (the one in question) and we quoted his words on the form, and had him sign it. His own words got the case thrown out!

I think that the lawyers need to be charged for filing BS stuff... Something new for the charge. like "Contempt of the Legal System" with a large fine.

gotta love being Meditaxi.
The free ride out of nowhere to somewhere. At least thats what we get used for.


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## paramedix (Mar 18, 2008)

I would get an RHT as soon as possible. I can always cancel it, but if that person is 15-15 and does not want my help, even after I have explained what could happen... its their choice.

It happens a lot, people are quick to say that you are treating them against their will, but in the same breath accuse you of not treating them.


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## BAMAMEDIC (Mar 26, 2008)

PRTT!!!!:unsure::wacko:


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