# Elderly Volunteers



## EMTRaven (May 31, 2016)

Recently an elderly member of ours (72 years old) went out on a back injury, went through nearly a year of recovery and has just gotten his doctor to let him ride the truck again. Prior to his injury, he may not have been the most agile but he was capable of lifting his fair share and carrying the jump kit and patients. However, since his doctor cleared him off to ride and the agency we volunteer for said okay, he is no longer able to lift the jump kit, carry equipment into the house or lift patients. Due to manpower restraints we really only have crews of two, meaning that whoever ends up riding with him must carry everything, and hope the patient can walk otherwise you have to call for more manpower.

His years of service and dedication truly are honorable and appreciated, and he has been told that we'd love to keep him in an administrative / supportive function, however he absolutely refuses to accept the fact his riding days have past. Unfortunately he is unable to realize his own limitations and I fear that he is going to hurt a patient or hurt a fellow EMT if he continues to ride. What would you do in a situation like this if you were a manager or supervisor?


Thank you for your input.


----------



## STXmedic (May 31, 2016)

If it's volunteer, why not just schedule a third volunteer and let him come along as a third?


----------



## EMTRaven (May 31, 2016)

STXmedic said:


> If it's volunteer, why not just schedule a third volunteer and let him come along as a third?



I should have elaborated more on why this won't work - we thought about allowing him to ride as a third, but the issue is he rides daytime during the week, where we are already hit or miss to roll a rig (we're a small town volley squad hanging onto the grips of daytime coverage) and daytime we just run scramble crews. Therefore, he usually is riding with another EMT that happens to be around, or in some instances a fire driver that has very little EMS experience. 

If we had the manpower during the day to do that we absolutely would, but we're lucky if we can get two just to complete a crew.


----------



## mgr22 (May 31, 2016)

Might this disability be temporary for him? Maybe you could soften the blow by telling him, "We'll see how you're doing six months from now." In any case, the safety of patients and other responders has to come first.


----------



## EMTRaven (May 31, 2016)

mgr22 said:


> Might this disability be temporary for him? Maybe you could soften the blow by telling him, "We'll see how you're doing six months from now." In any case, the safety of patients and other responders has to come first.



Unfortunately no, his strength and lifting are gone for good. I also left out that his first doctor refused to sign off for him to return, he had to seek another doctor to get it signed off. The powers to be in our agency said they didn't feel comfortable letting him ride, but were afraid to go against the doctor's decision.


----------



## TransportJockey (May 31, 2016)

Its.time.the agency forces him to retire. Mandate a lift test on coming back. Or require one of all members


----------



## Tigger (May 31, 2016)

Eeek. We have to pass a lift test before returning to work, regardless of whether an injury occurred off duty or not. More than a doctor's note is needed. I think you might be in a tough place even if you mandated everyone complete a lift test to remain operationally active, but I am no lawyer.


----------



## exodus (Jun 1, 2016)

Contact your medical director, or find out who insures your agency. Let them know what's going on and that he's a liability and risking patient safety.  They will put a stop to this immediately. They don't give a **** about peoples feelings if it's going to cost them their license or money.

And if you can't get coverage 24/7 volly. It's time to get a private in there.


----------



## EMTRaven (Jun 1, 2016)

exodus said:


> Contact your medical director, or find out who insures your agency. Let them know what's going on and that he's a liability and risking patient safety.  They will put a stop to this immediately. They don't give a **** about peoples feelings if it's going to cost them their license or money.
> 
> And if you can't get coverage 24/7 volly. It's time to get a private in there.



That's actually a very good idea, that is probably going to be the next route of action to solving this. As both a paid and volunteer, I really do understand the complicated factors in this. It's hard to tell a guy who's so dedicated he needs to stop riding, but crew and patient safety come first and it's time for him to pass the torch down to the younger guys before he hurts someone. We are very good nights and weekends, however Monday to Friday we actually implemented a pretty good policy, we have a mutual aid contract with a local paid company who have multiple trucks in the area at all times (they cover several towns near us). We page out volunteers 3 times within 3 minutes. If after 3 minutes there is not a volunteer crew, they call the paid dispatch and they have truck there in 10 minutes or less. It's a fair compromise for the old timers on the department who believe private crew during the day is not even an option, but for the guys who know times are changing and we need to provide ambulance service to the residents whether it's us or paid, it works out well.


----------



## joshrunkle35 (Jun 1, 2016)

Let me say that as a 32 year old, I work with a 70 year old, and a 74 year old, and frankly, they've been doing the job longer than I've been alive. The experience they have outweighs probably anything that I will ever accomplish with my life. The issue doesn't seem to me that he can't do the job, but rather that the management is doing a poor job of allocating their resources (people). Could he perhaps do QA/QI, Field Training, CE, Ordering/Logistics or something else? 

It's rarely time to tell someone to hang up their hat. It's often time to tell someone to wear a different hat.


----------



## Tigger (Jun 2, 2016)

exodus said:


> Contact your medical director, or find out who insures your agency. Let them know what's going on and that he's a liability and risking patient safety.  They will put a stop to this immediately. They don't give a **** about peoples feelings if it's going to cost them their license or money.
> 
> And if you can't get coverage 24/7 volly. It's time to get a private in there.


Or just pay your staff.


----------



## Tigger (Jun 2, 2016)

joshrunkle35 said:


> Let me say that as a 32 year old, I work with a 70 year old, and a 74 year old, and frankly, they've been doing the job longer than I've been alive. The experience they have outweighs probably anything that I will ever accomplish with my life. The issue doesn't seem to me that he can't do the job, but rather that the management is doing a poor job of allocating their resources (people). Could he perhaps do QA/QI, Field Training, CE, Ordering/Logistics or something else?
> 
> It's rarely time to tell someone to hang up their hat. It's often time to tell someone to wear a different hat.


It appears that the member in question has been offered that and refused, which is not uncommon.


----------



## joshrunkle35 (Jun 2, 2016)

Tigger said:


> It appears that the member in question has been offered that and refused, which is not uncommon.



There's a big difference between saying, "It's time for you to come off the bus and ride a desk" and "We really value you and we'd like to promote you".


----------



## NomadicMedic (Jun 2, 2016)

joshrunkle35 said:


> Let me say that as a 32 year old, I work with a 70 year old, and a 74 year old, and frankly, they've been doing the job longer than I've been alive. The experience they have outweighs probably anything that I will ever accomplish with my life.



At no point was the guy's experience ever related as an issue or called into question. It has zero bearing on the fact that he can't carry the gear or move patients. 



joshrunkle35 said:


> The issue doesn't seem to me that he can't do the job, but rather that the management is doing a poor job of allocating their resources (people).



This is CLEARLY an issue of him not being able to do the job, as noted below...



EMTRaven said:


> ...he is no longer able to lift the jump kit, carry equipment into the house or lift patients. Due to manpower restraints we really only have crews of two, meaning that whoever ends up riding with him must carry everything, and hope the patient can walk otherwise you have to call for more manpower.



It's time for someone in that department to sack up and say, "Hey Fred, thanks for all your help, but since you can't do the job, we need you to only be a third rider or turn in your stuff."


----------



## Jim37F (Jun 2, 2016)

"Fred, here's the deal. You are retiring. Period. You gave us years and years of hard, outstanding, dedicated work, and we'll see you get properly recognized for that. I'm sorry Fred, but that's The Way It Is. You're hurt. It happens. It happens to the 20-something young bucks. You outlasted them all, be proud of that. But no ambulance you are on will leave base without 3 people. Period. You'll be more than welcome to hang out, help out with admin issues, even third ride. But the fact of the matter that as of right now, any rig you are on will NOT be allowed in service without two other people on board, same as if only one guy showed up. Now, lets go plan a nice retirement ceremony, we'll have the Mayor give a nice speech, complete with gold watch, 20 year old Scotch and everything"


----------

