# Stepping stone (Rant)



## imurphy (Apr 8, 2009)

So, this has been on my mind for a bit. Something that's been annoying me. I know it shouldn't but, ya know, it does. 

Is there anyone out there that EMS is their actual career path? Not just in it to pass some time until their real life starts.

I've been working with a seemingly endless stream of people who are only there before they move on. Some things I've heard are:

"I hate this medical c**p. I'm only hear so I can get higher on the police panel"

"EMS as a career? No I'm just here until the fire department is recruiting, them I'm out."

"Go onto medic school? Why would I do that? I'm just doing this until I get into nursing"

"This job? No, I'm only here cause I lost my job in (random field) and I'm waiting for something better"

How is it that my career is so many other people's time killer. I started into the world of EMS as a vol in 1996, and went pro in 2003, and only took that long because I had convinced myself I was happy being an engineer. I love what I do. I'm even proud of what I do. 

It's just so disheartening to see so many people in this job who don't actually want to be here. No other career I know of has this problem. 

(/rant)


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## VentMedic (Apr 8, 2009)

imurphy said:


> No other career I know of has this problem.
> 
> (/rant)


 
No other "career" has the 2 weeks or less programs such as the EMT has. 

Or, the 3 month "0 to hero" Paramedic programs with the flashy television ads. 

Essentially it can take less then 4 months to complete both EMT and Paramedic certs to get a cool job on an ambulance. 

Too many in EMS shun education so even if they consider themselves as doing it for a "career", they remain primarily because it is a job that doesn't require a lot of effort to stay in it.


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## mariat753 (Apr 8, 2009)

It's a great job.  Until your knees and back and hips give out from carrying people down row-home stairs.  Until you realize that 15 jobs a shift leaves you exhausted, that you're overweight and your cholesterol sucks from too many wolfed down meals and no exercise other than when the elevators in the projects aren't working.  When you're smoking two packs a day and sucking down caffeine to work two/three/gazillion jobs. Until you're tired of (many places) not having a pension, a union, a 401K, you name it.


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## JPINFV (Apr 9, 2009)

Meh, I've publically stated why I won't consider EMS for a career. http://www.emtlife.com/showpost.php?p=125927&postcount=76  Unfortunatly the culture in EMS sucks and I don't see it changing anytime soon. If I had to put up with the majority of people I've worked with in the past for 30,40 years, I'd go insane before I reached 10 years.


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## LucidResq (Apr 9, 2009)

Don't hate just 'cause I'm going in to nursing. I plan on working in the prehospital / transport setting as soon as possible. 

I do have to admit though, "future" med students drive me insane. This kid in my EMT class thought he was going to work as an EMT through med school, and then go on to be a neonatal surgeon (he was inspired by that picture of a surgeon holding up an in utero fetuses hand with his finger... that's why). 
But oh yeah... he was a terrible EMT student. He couldn't stop referring to the BVM as the BMV and wanted to bring a bucket of diarrhea into the ED for one scenario and there's about a million stories that would simultaneously terrify you and make you roll over laughing. 

Anyone notice that? That for every 10 people who are pre-med and totally want to be doctors... only one has a clue what that actually entails and has a shot in hell? 

But yeah... if we raised the minimum education standards... EMS would lose that "stepping stone" thing. How many people go to nursing school as a stepping stone to anything besides a higher level of nursing? Can you imagine how many fewer BS students we'd have if college A&P were a pre-req for EMT-B... something that simple?


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## reaper (Apr 9, 2009)

I choose it as a career 20 years ago and have never left. I push to make it better, better education and standards. That is all you can do.

I could have went on to RN, but that is not what I wanted. I love being on the streets and love my job. I continue to gain new education all the time. EMS is ever changing and you cannot became stagnant and stay ahead. If that is what you want, then stick with it. The more that choose a career path in it, the more that can make changes.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 9, 2009)

Yup, I plan on going in to law enforcement.  So what?

Is it a bad thing someone wants to be well-rounded and have experience in all sections of the emergency services field?


Yes, I'm contemplating going to medic school and doing EMS for quite a while, but things change, life changes.


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## AJ Hidell (Apr 9, 2009)

LucidResq said:


> Anyone notice that? That for every 10 people who are pre-med and totally want to be doctors... only one has a clue what that actually entails and has a shot in hell?


I think you are over-estimating it, lol.

But this has been going on since I entered EMS in the early 70s.  Even the classic "Mother, Jugs & Speed" had Bliss, the EMT who proclaimed...



> Ratings mean very little to me.  I'm just doing this for a brief period of time before medical school.


Fifty bucks says he never got there either.


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## daedalus (Apr 9, 2009)

Premed means nothing. Anyone in community college that has taken any class to a university senior can claim to be a premed (nothing against community college education, I go to a CC). The one EMT premed I take seriously is JP.


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## LucidResq (Apr 9, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Premed means nothing. Anyone in community college that has taken any class to a university senior can claim to be a premed (nothing against community college education, I go to a CC). The one EMT premed I take seriously is JP.



I took a class for freshmen at my university last semester... there were about 4 people who said their major was pre-med. They all wanted to be doctors... "yeah I want to be a plastic surgeon!" 

By the end of the semester, ALL of them had changed majors. Why? Well as one of them put it, "Bio 101 was SOOOO hard!"


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## nomofica (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm choosing EMS as my career.

Not saying that won't change in the many years to come, but for now it's my ultimate goal.


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## BLSBoy (Apr 9, 2009)

If the pay, benefits, schedule, promotions and sleeping privleges were similar to a FD, I would be more inclined to stick in EMS forever. 
However, they are not.


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## Veneficus (Apr 9, 2009)

*The Premed EMT? I love it*

Everyone wants to be a doctor. Strangely enough the number of medics I know who became docs far outnumbers the basics. (5:1)

Majoring in premed is a fool’s errand. You end up with a lot of basic science courses, but no concentration in anything. Has anyone seen a job posting that says “pre med degree required?” I think many people just use the phrase to demonstrate they want to do something in healthcare and really don’t know what. 

As for EMT-B helping you, I can’t see that it would. (honestly I can’t say for sure) but based on the opinions of many physicians I have encountered as soon as a person says they are an EMT, they are immediately dismissed out of hand. Just because the general population doesn’t know what an EMT is doesn’t mean physicians don’t. To ask people who spent years learning basic science and pass some grueling tests before they were even allowed to interview a patient to give some weight to a 120 hour first aid course boarders on insulting. Some medics can work years before they earn professional respect. Due to many medics with negative attitudes, boisterous preconditions on what patients they want to care for, and the effort to do the minimum, they will never be more than ambulance drivers in anyone’s eyes. 

Don’t be in a hurry to “get out there and do it.” Be in a hurry to go to school and learn something. The road to being a doctor is not a sprint; it is a marathon, measured in years, not hours or semesters. 

For the topic of the OP, I had every intention of making EMS my career when I started. There is no way to increase your scope no matter how good you are because of the mean quality level. There are no lateral transfers, and even “senior positions” like FTO are largely ceremonial for the senior providers than actually qualified positions. A MD or RN can apply for a director’s position with total experience and education. Many EMS agencies (especially FDs) require length of time in that specific service. 

Look on this very forum the many pleas from experienced educated people for providers to take education seriously and value it. How many times have we heard “this call doesn’t require ALS.” How about “I’ll start taking classes after I get out of EMT or medic class”? “yea, biology, chemistry, and A&P is on my to do list.” There are very few positions in the EMS profession for educated dedicated professionals, even fewer positions that pay a respectable wage because of the saturation. The days of a patch and a pulse aren’t over, they are alive and well. 

Some agencies now have “entrance exams” to their service. “You must have X experience in such and such an environment.” “You must pass our medical entrance exam.” Go and tell an RN or MD if they want a job they have to pass an agency specific qualifying test. It is unheard of.

EMS in the US made itself a stepping stone and fights hard to keep it that way. Outstanding providers will continue to grow up and out.


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## CAOX3 (Apr 9, 2009)

imurphy said:


> So, this has been on my mind for a bit. Something that's been annoying me. I know it shouldn't but, ya know, it does.
> 
> Is there anyone out there that EMS is their actual career path? Not just in it to pass some time until their real life starts.
> 
> ...



Maybe when you can support yourself.

Maybe when you can support a family, if you choose.

Not have to choose every month what bills to pay.

Maybe own a house, or a reliable car.

Where I work EMS is paid pretty well.  The majority of this country sucks.

Most people dont have a lifetime to devote waiting on the results of better education standards.

Why does this bother people?  You have to choose whats best for you and your family.

Who are we to judge anyone on a decision they make to leave EMS for more greener pastures, financial stability and piece of mind.

I have been watching great providers walk away from this field for fifteen-years.  Unfortunately for EMS now they are gifted providers in other areas, teachers, police officers, firemen or whatever.

Its not a stepping stone its called self preservation.


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## JPINFV (Apr 9, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Premed means nothing. Anyone in community college that has taken any class to a university senior can claim to be a premed (nothing against community college education, I go to a CC). The one EMT premed I take seriously is JP.



Thanks!...


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## curt (Apr 9, 2009)

I completely understand. I'm in EMS as a career, going on to medic school to stay a medic. 

 On the bright side, if they take these courses, do this work, they're probably more apt to be able to see things from our perspective.


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## EMTinNEPA (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm here until I can't physically do it anymore.


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## Epi-do (Apr 9, 2009)

I've been in EMS for 9 of the last 10 years.  (I took one year, after having my son, and worked for a pediatrician.)  I love what I do, and wish life hadn't intervened in the past so I could have went to medic school sooner than I did.  

Despite my families disappointment, I have no interest or desire in going to nursing school or med school.  I love my job, the people I work with, and what I do every day.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 9, 2009)

I plan on making medicine a career. Not sure if it will be EMS or nursing or what. I would love for EMS to be a place I could have a career, but I hate the fact that to make any money I would have to become a firefighter. I plan on always pursuing higher education and would love to see EMT-B become an AAS at least while medic should be a BS at least


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## EMT007 (Apr 9, 2009)

I guess I'm one of the stepping stone people. I worked 911 EMS while in college with every intention of going to medical school (which is where I'm at now). I always took the profession seriously and worked to make myself the best EMT possible. 

But there is an upside to me using EMS to gain medical experience during my pre-med years. I now know that Emergency Medicine is what I want to do (barring some other specialty blowing me away during the clinical years, but I don't see that happening), and I plan on being involved with EMS wherever I end up, as either a medical director or something similar. It is certainly a good thing to have an EM physician who has worked in the field, and knows where the EMS personnel they work with are coming from.


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## WarDance (Apr 9, 2009)

I have a friend who is 19 and starting medic school in the fall. He is very intelligent and is leaving college for medic school.  I have alot of respect for him. 

I am one of those stepping stone people who wants to go to med school but I admire everyone who is making a career in EMS.


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## Sasha (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm a "Stepping stoner". EMS was never my long term career goal, nursing always was, it was just what was available at the time. I briefy considered making some kind of career out of EMS.

While I like EMS, and think it's interesting, the mentality gets under my skin. Then I see people who have been working years to better EMS met with waves of people who don't want it to change and who win out. 

So yes, I'm using EMS as a stepping stone, and I feel no guilt or shame in it.,


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## tydek07 (Apr 9, 2009)

I plan on staying a Paramedic  Of course, I will get my CCP and continue my education in the EMS feild. I have thought about going into Nursing, but always find more reasons to stay in EMS. I like it here and plan to stay for a long, long time 

tydek


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## fortsmithman (Apr 9, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I'm a "Stepping stoner". EMS was never my long term career goal, nursing always was, it was just what was available at the time. I briefy considered making some kind of career out of EMS.
> 
> While I like EMS, and think it's interesting, the mentality gets under my skin. Then I see people who have been working years to better EMS met with waves of people who don't want it to change and who win out.
> 
> So yes, I'm using EMS as a stepping stone, and I feel no guilt or shame in it.,


You should not feel any shame.  It's your life do what you have to do to improve it.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 9, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> You should not feel any shame.  It's your life do what you have to do to improve it.



I thought you were leaving?


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## fortsmithman (Apr 9, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I thought you were leaving?



I was but I had EMTLife withdrawals.  I will be frequenting both EMTLife and the other Canadian ems forums.


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## Sasha (Apr 9, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I thought you were leaving?



He missed your wit too much.


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## Hockey (Apr 9, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I thought you were leaving?





 



I swore I would never go into the medical field.  (Especially during the Fire Academy)

Do I want to do this as a career?  Eh...not sure...

I was going into LE but anyone that lives in Michigan would understand its not good right now.  I'm not leaving Michigan.  As much as the economy sucks here, I just can't.  

I'm still looking for Public Safety Officer (Fire/EMS/Police) position with a large agency in SW Michigan.  I am also looking up in the TC area.  

Again, career wise, I don't know.  I mean after all, it is one of the easiest jobs I have ever had (nope, not smoking anything).


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## Shishkabob (Apr 9, 2009)

Sasha said:


> He missed your wit too much.



Yeah, I get that quite a bit, but it ends up being from the opposite sex.





Hey, it was a legit question.


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## Hockey (Apr 10, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Yeah, I get that quite a bit, but it ends up being from the opposite sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And I was just kidding


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## Meursault (Apr 10, 2009)

Another stepping stoner here (may or may not have added the "stepping" in the past few years, but that's a topic for another thread).

EMS has been invaluable for me. It's taught me that I like working in the field, that I could never be an EM doc, and that I can interact with patients far better than with people.

I'm not sure where I'm going after EMS, but I'm almost definitely not staying. If all other career plans fall through, I'll get my RN and work towards CCT and/or flight. Otherwise, MD/MPH or a PhD in epidemiology/public health.


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## AJ Hidell (Apr 10, 2009)

EMT007 said:


> It is certainly a good thing to have an EM physician who has worked in the field, and knows where the EMS personnel they work with are coming from.


Definitely.  They are more aware of how inadequate EMS education is, so they are less likely to be one of those idiotic, rubber-stamp medical directors that gives advanced protocols to 13-week wonders.

What I find much more disturbing than those who leave EMS because they have better options in life are all those nitwits that stay in EMS because they have no options.  Those people are hurting us much more than those who leave.


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## medichopeful (Apr 10, 2009)

*Not a stepping stone, but times may change*

Right now, I am looking at EMS as a career.  I will be taking pre-med biology or movement science to leave my options open, if I ever decide to go to med school or anything like that.

However, I am also taking these classes to make myself a better paramedic.  I am the type of person who likes to be the best at everything, so I will be working hard to make myself the best medic possible.  If I get into EMS and decide that I do not like it, I will still do the best I can until I move on to something else.  But like I said, right now I am looking at making EMS a career.  But as somebody else said, "times and goals change".

Alright, I will stop ranting.  All I really meant to say is that no, at the moment I do not plan on using EMS as a stepping stone.


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## BossyCow (Apr 10, 2009)

First of all you can't deduce logically that the reason people use EMS as a stepping stone is because of the inherent faults in the EMS system. The reality of society today is that the average length of stay in a job is now under 6 years. Jobs change, careers change, people move, get married, have kids, divorce, move, change careers.... 

There are those who choose a linear life. They pick a career, follow that career until retirement advancing to the highest level their ambition, intelligence and emotional satisfaction will take them. Others follow a more meandering path. I know of a P.A who started out as a flight instructor, a nurse who began her career as a high school chemistry teacher. I have a dear friend who works as a botanist who graduated with her Masters Degree in classical spanish literature. 

To insist that everyone follow the linear path and that young people with no life experience make final, unalterable decisions regarding their future careers is unrealistic. I've followed the stepping stone path through my life with employment in hospital purchasing, accounting, printing, I managed an Art Gallery, I worked in the labor movement as an organizer, I even waited tables. I was able to find financial stability, raise two kids, pay off my house and put money away for a retirement. 

Do I care if my personal life choices make those who are more linear uncomfortable? Not at all! I work hard at whatever job I am in and do well within it. A personal work ethic is going to make you do well in a job whether or not you do it for months, years or decades. A long time in a job can make you excel or stagnate depending on how you spend your time there. 

So I raise my glass  :beerchug:to those willing to move on, change roads, switch horses in midstream. to boldly go where they have never gone before! Hooray to the unconventional! EMS will survive our presence in their midst. Every other career has!


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## zzyzx (Apr 10, 2009)

I've been in EMS for 7 years, and it looks like I'll be in it for quite a while into the future. I consider myself lucky to still enjoy EMS as much as I did when I first started. I think it's important to keep setting goals for yourself. I'm hoping to get into RN school this year, but I plan on also working as a medic after I become an RN.

Wouldn't it be great if we had an EMS system like The Netherlands where you have to be an experienced nurse to work on an ambulance? If being a medic required years of education, then the job wouldn't just be a stepping stone anymore.


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## Aidey (Apr 10, 2009)

Veneficus said:


> As for EMT-B helping you, I can’t see that it would. (honestly I can’t say for sure) but based on the opinions of many physicians I have encountered as soon as a person says they are an EMT, they are immediately dismissed out of hand.



A former co-worker is in med school right now. He got extra "points" on his med school application for having volunteered as an EMT while he was getting his under-grad degree. The last time I saw him we talked about it a little, and apparently the med school admissions people loved that he had hands on experience, even though it was only at the EMT Intermediate level.


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