# One hell of a way to start my week...



## nomofica (Apr 13, 2009)

I'm laying in bed, just starting to get drowsy after a whole night of insomnia and I hear screaming outside my house. It's loud and disruptive for any living creature, so I get fed up and throw on some pants to go check it out. 

No more than 100 feet from my house, there's a young lady (15-17 years) obviously ETOH, A&Ox2 (had no idea where she was or what time/day) and just tearing her lungs up with these god awful screams.

My dad is there; he activates EMS (rather, he yells at dispatch because they're asking too many questions and he's terrible under stress). Another lady is on scene with Poison Control on the line. I'm trying to keep this young lady from fallng and recieving any possible injuries, and next thing I know I find my face getting hammered with her hands. I grab her arms in self defense, but she decides she likes the taste of human flesh and sinks her teeth in me. Thank God that my arm was clothed by a sweater. Just in the nick of time both EMS and a couple LEO's get on scene and restrain her on a cot and take her off to the hospital. 

EMS first responder that was on scene checked me out (no broken skin, washed the bite mark). She definitely got a few good ones in; glasses are bent a little and I'm sporting a flashy fat lip. 

Did I mention this was all at 4 in the morning? Blah. Time to tend to my wounds and attempt to catch some Z's.


----------



## vquintessence (Apr 13, 2009)

Sue her this time.  Next time shoot her.


----------



## nomofica (Apr 13, 2009)

Disrupt my sleep like that again and I may have to...


----------



## Flight-LP (Apr 13, 2009)

Scene safety

Scene safety

Scene safety

Scene safety

Write it 100 times!

You should have never gotten involved...........

I would have nuked some popcorn and watched the show. Besides, if she falls and knocks herself out, then you can go back to sleep!


----------



## nomofica (Apr 13, 2009)

Scene safety can change

Scene saftey can change

Scene safety can change

Write that 100 times as well. 


She wasn't violent at first. She was just screaming very loud. Trust me, if I hadn't gotten involved she would be in danger. Lots of "bad folk" in my area...


----------



## Airwaygoddess (Apr 13, 2009)

*What a way to wake up...*

AHH Geezzz!!  Sorry to hear about that......  Nothing like having troubles right outside of your door...... :wacko:


----------



## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 13, 2009)

Airwaygoddess said:


> AHH Geezzz!!  Sorry to hear about that......  *Nothing* like having troubles right *outside* of your door...... :wacko:



Not true.  The same situation right *inside *your door is far worse.  "Ma, go back to bed...  Don't make me bring out the defibrilator!"


----------



## Sasha (Apr 13, 2009)

nomofica said:


> Scene safety can change
> 
> Scene saftey can change
> 
> ...



When scene safety changes, that's the time to bail out.


----------



## nomofica (Apr 13, 2009)

Sasha said:


> When scene safety changes, that's the time to bail out.



Time didn't allow to bail out. Just as she got violent is when the bus and the LEO's arrived. Otherwise I would have.


----------



## DT4EMS (Apr 13, 2009)

nomofica said:


> I'm laying in bed, just starting to get drowsy after a whole night of insomnia and I hear screaming outside my house. It's loud and disruptive for any living creature, so I get fed up and throw on some pants to go check it out.
> 
> No more than 100 feet from my house, there's a young lady (15-17 years) obviously ETOH, A&Ox2 (had no idea where she was or what time/day) and just tearing her lungs up with these god awful screams.
> 
> ...



Prime example of one of "The 5 D's" (Drunk,Drugged,Diabetic,Domestic or Deranged). It is also another example of how an assault becomes an "anecdotal story".

I am glad you were not injured too bad. My question is..... are you going to pursue charges?


----------



## nomofica (Apr 13, 2009)

DT4EMS said:


> Prime example of one of "The 5 D's" (Drunk,Drugged,Diabetic,Domestic or Deranged). It is also another example of how an assault becomes an "anecdotal story".
> 
> I am glad you were not injured too bad. My question is..... are you going to pursue charges?



Well, she was obviously drunk. This was evident by the strong smell of alcohol on her breath. Possible drug use, which may explain the violence, but my honest opinion is that she was just scared.

As for charges, no. I'm not going that far. She was intoxicated and her reasoning was cloudier than a rainstorm. Just handed her off to responding EMS and gave my statement to the LEO's.


----------



## reaper (Apr 13, 2009)

nomofica said:


> Well, she was obviously drunk. This was evident by the strong smell of alcohol on her breath. Possible drug use, which may explain the violence, but my honest opinion is that she was just scared.
> 
> As for charges, no. I'm not going that far. She was intoxicated and her reasoning was cloudier than a rainstorm. Just handed her off to responding EMS and gave my statement to the LEO's.




h34r: I think I will let Kip answer that one!


----------



## Flight-LP (Apr 13, 2009)

nomofica said:


> Well, she was obviously drunk. This was evident by the strong smell of alcohol on her breath. Possible drug use, which may explain the violence, but my honest opinion is that she was just scared.
> 
> obviously ETOH, A&Ox2 (had no idea where she was or what time/day) and just tearing her lungs up with these god awful screams.



And it never once dawned on you that maybe you should just leave her alone????? There are a lot of clues here that should tell you to stay back. Let her scream until she turns blue, at least you know she has a patent airway......................

Sorry, you can mold the story into whatever you wish, but you still disregarded your own personal safety for a situation that didn't warrant it. But to each their own...................


----------



## DT4EMS (Apr 14, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> And it never once dawned on you that maybe you should just leave her alone????? There are a lot of clues here that should tell you to stay back. Let her scream until she turns blue, at least you know she has a patent airway......................
> 
> Sorry, you can mold the story into whatever you wish, but you still disregarded your own personal safety for a situation that didn't warrant it. But to each their own...................




That was going to be my next point.

My research has shown, more often than not.......... providers put the care, well-being and safety of others before their own. For EMS this prioritizing of "life" in that order is WRONG.

Having said that........ this is my "opinion" and just that.........:

We have "Six Steps" of DT4EMS.

1) Don't Be on an Unsafe Scene
2) Awareness (For where the Exit is if you failed on Step #1)
3) Distance (Min. 6-8 Feet for empty hand) if you failed 1 & 2
4) DTP (The parry being most important then move to 3, 2, then 1)
5) Basic Ground Defense (If you were knocked to the ground, then 4, 3, 2,1)
6) Escape Mount (If the person is on top of you then 5, 4, 3,2,1)

Each step is an attempt to FIX a mistake a caring provider made in their scene assessment.

Believe it or not, you were all the way into step 4. Pretty deep into a scene dealing with one of "The 5 D's".

Now as far as not pressing charges.......... Why is it OK just because she was drunk?

If a drunk driver injures you does the cop/courts say "Awe she was just drunk..... we will let her go. " ?

It is up to you to press charges or not. I am not downing you either way. The point is, assaults in EMS go under reported because of a "it's just part of the job" attitude.


----------



## Sasha (Apr 14, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> And it never once dawned on you that maybe you should just leave her alone????? There are a lot of clues here that should tell you to stay back. Let her scream until she turns blue, at least you know she has a patent airway......................
> 
> Sorry, you can mold the story into whatever you wish, but you still disregarded your own personal safety for a situation that didn't warrant it. But to each their own...................



People get it ingrained in their mind from EMT school that they must do something when someone appears to be in distress.

Those kind of heroics are what get EMTs and Paramedics who don't outgrow that mentality hurt.

You're lucky she didn't break the skin. Humans have icky dirty disgusting mouths.


----------



## BLSBoy (Apr 14, 2009)

OK, so drunk girl is screaming and yelling. 

Call the cops. 

You get to close, and get bopped in the face. 
Serves you right.


----------



## aandjmayne (Apr 14, 2009)

Actually in my EMT school the thing they ingrain in us is....... you are number one on the scene. If you arent/dont feel safe then you dont go.. no matter what.... What good can you do if you turn into a patient yourself??.. you could have gotten hurt much worse. I understand you wanted to help but you know alcohol and violence go hand in hand.. how many calls have you gone to that alcohol was involved and a fight broke out? 

Glad you are okay though..^_^. .


----------



## nomofica (Apr 15, 2009)

I can understand where you guys are coming from.

I was only getting close to keep her from smashing her head on the cement, which she had just done as I walked up to the scene. She didn't get violent until after I had helped her sit down in the grass. If she had been violent before, I would've kept a good 10 feet away.

It's not in me to just let somebody who was in her condition to just stumble around whilst screaming and upsetting the residents, especially in my neighbourhood. There's a lot of the wrong people in my area. Granted, I didn't assess the situation as well as I should have BUT I honestly don't think I would have done anything differently.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Apr 15, 2009)

Unfortunately, too many hero instructors are trying to teach hero courses instead of EMT courses. So when in the real world bad things happen such as being assaulted, getting burned out because they never really "saved" anyone, we then wonder why?

A good example is to watch physicians. You may have a violent and combative patient, who is usually the last one to even touch the patient?... The physician. Why? Watch as they will observe and let others be involved first. They know and recognize that they will be no good injured and harmed. Why place yourself at risks? Then in the end, they will be acclaimed the true hero!...lol

As I teach EMS educators, I attempt to emphasize that we must teach critical thinking skills as what the job expectations should be. We are loosing well meaning rescuers but truthfully, many get injured and even killed foolishly. It is not part of their training or even job. 

Programs alike Kip's DT4EMS, should be mandated before graduation of any EMS course. A plan of survivor when and if such involvement occurs. Hopefully, we educate further upon on how to avoid and prevent such occurrences. For example, as in this scenario we already recognize she was breathing adequately (screaming is a good demonstration of that), her tidal volume is great, LOC is okay, and do not see large amounts of blood. Overview the scene. 

If we required Psychology as other health professions do; we would immediately know to respect their space and would hopefully know how to interview more appropriately. 

Again, another failure of the EMS curriculum and system. Fortunately, and thankfully you were not severely injured or maimed. 

You learned a life lesson early on. Something; I hope and doubt you will not forget. 

R/r 911


----------



## medicp94dao (Apr 15, 2009)

I am glad you were not more seriously hurt. I am not gonna sit here and tell you what you should or should not do. We all deal with things every day that the "book" says we should have done different. Our lives are lived on a case by case basis. I can't say for sure what everyone else would have done in that situation.  I am a former LEO and Tactical Medic w/ 5+ years of Martial arts training, personally, I probably would have sat on the porch and watched the show.  If I knew I had a competant partner and knew PD was enroute and I was on duty, then yes I would have intervened. You were alone, off duty and not fully awake at 4 a.m. I am not saying I am ten foot tall and bullet proof. I dont know if you have any other training, but that wasnt that smart, especially if you live in as bad a neighborhood as you say. You can't do any body a bit of good if you are a patient as well....... Also if she did pass out from hitting her head then you can treat her...... IMPLIED CONSENT!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AnthonyM83 (Apr 15, 2009)

I wasn't there, so not going to judge your scene safety assessment, but it seems like something I would have called PD for and just watched. If she was legitimately hurting herself by falling onto the pavement repeatedly, I honestly probably would have helped in some way, even if distracting her verbally from a few feet away. My responsibility to my neighbors as a citizen is different than when I'm at work (well, not so much in Los Angeles...no one seems to care here).


----------



## whizkid1 (Apr 15, 2009)

Wow what a nite you had,glad you were'nt hurt worse than you were.


----------



## VFFforpeople (Apr 15, 2009)

I can't say what I would have done, I dont know. What I can say is my first call would have been to SO,PD. I have seen 14-17-25 year old girls on meth,pcp,ect take down 2-3 FFs. I am just saying think before rolling in. She is screaming, she is breathing. Nothing else wait for her to pass out from screaming and assit with aid. Just my thoughts. Glad you were not hurt to bad.


----------



## nomofica (Apr 16, 2009)

AnthonyM83 said:


> I wasn't there, so not going to judge your scene safety assessment, but it seems like something I would have called PD for and just watched. If she was legitimately hurting herself by falling onto the pavement repeatedly, I honestly probably would have helped in some way, even if distracting her verbally from a few feet away. My responsibility to my neighbors as a citizen is different than when I'm at work (well, not so much in Los Angeles...no one seems to care here).



She had reportedly been falling before I got there (other witnesses said she fell about 2 times and hit her head on the cement, and another time just as I walked up to the scene). I was luring her to the grassy part of the walkway and when she did fall, I went to help her lean against a fence. That is when she turned violent.


----------



## HotelCo (Apr 16, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> I would have nuked some popcorn and watched the show. Besides, if she falls and knocks herself out, then you can go back to sleep!



Yep.. not your problem unless she's damaging your car... and then it's no holds barred


----------



## spnx (Apr 17, 2009)

Do you carry this stuff?

http://www.myclyns.com/

I do, every since my partner and I were assaulted by someone we were treating who spit blood in our faces.


----------

