# piercings and tattoos



## yogakat (Mar 16, 2009)

so...as i prepare to start school, i am thinking...what are the policies regarding piercings and tattoos?  I don't think that my tattoos would show when i'm in uniform...but i do have piercings in my nostril and in my tragus...i love my piercings and don't want to remove them...what are the views on these 'body adornments' where you work?

so far, my piercings have not made me think weird, irrational thoughts or have the desire to do naughty things...tho that could be fun...they just kind of sit there.


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## VentMedic (Mar 16, 2009)

yogakat said:


> so far, my piercings have not made me think weird, irrational thoughts or have the desire to do naughty things...tho that could be fun...they just kind of sit there.


 
What matters is what your future employers and patients will think.

Often the school will address all of their policies before you start. They may be rather detailed in how their want their students to look in the professional world. Jewelry of all types may be limited for infection control and safety reasons as well as good appearances.


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## motownems (Mar 16, 2009)

This seems to be an issue where there is not one set answer.   For instance, at my volly service visible tattoos  are allowed so long as they "are in good taste".  However I have heard that several paid services do not allow visible tattoos. As far as piecing at my volly service; in general ears are okay for females however piecing of any sort are discouraged for males.   

My personal opinion on the subject is that your personal appearance should reflect professionalism (even if your a volly). As such tattoos should not be visible; and piercings should be a no-go with the exception of women who have there ears pieced. 

From what you described, your tattoo is probably ok (depending what it is of).  However your piercings will most likely have to go.


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## tydek07 (Mar 16, 2009)

Straight from *our* policy book:

*II. JEWELRY*
No jewelry shall be visible except for the following:
A. Wrist watch
B. Finger rings (one per hand)
C. Females may wear post earrings in ears only (up to three earrings
per ear)
D. Medic Alert bracelets

*III. MISCELLANEOUS*
A. For safety reasons extreme length of fingernails are not permitted.
B. Conservative use of cologne or perfume only.
C. Visible tattoos need to be conservative and at the discretion of
the organization. The tattoo needs to be covered by the uniform.

But remember, these are our policies. Every company is going to have their own. Some will allow tattoos, some will not. Some will allow both female and male to have piercing, some will only allow females, and some will allow neither. 

No one is going to be able to answer your question to the fullest. You will just have to ask the company(s) that you want to work for.

Take Care,
tydek


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## yogakat (Mar 16, 2009)

i have two tattoos on my back (both small) and one on each ankle...so unless i had to disrobe on scene, i don't think that anyone would ever see them

i have two pierces on one ear...standard pierce and tragus

i have four pierces in the other...on standard, two above it, on on top in cartilage

normally the only peirces that i wear are the tragus and the cartilage (both small plain hoops) which can only be removed with a tool...so they are always in

my nostril pierce is a screw with a small cz stud (small enough that it looks like a speck of glitter on my nose)

all of my pierces are small, nondescript and solid gold...nothing weird or flashy

i have yet to have any employer or client comment negatively against them and have not had any pierce affect my ability to act professionally


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## medic417 (Mar 16, 2009)

All tats covered.  
No more than 1 earing per ear.  
No more than 1 ring total.

No other visible piercings.


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## Sasha (Mar 16, 2009)

yogakat said:


> i have two tattoos on my back (both small) and one on each ankle...so unless i had to disrobe on scene, i don't think that anyone would ever see them
> 
> i have two pierces on one ear...standard pierce and tragus
> 
> ...



At the service I used to work at, the fire services I've ridden with, and my school the policy was if you have a tattoo that's visible, cover it. A piercing you refuse to take out that isn't "standard ear" studs must be covered with a bandaid.

My navel piercing was discovered while I was the patient in one of the assesment scenarios at school, and they made me cover it with a bandaid from then on until I decided to take it out permanently, too. 

Check with the local EMS agencies in your area, though, first to get their policy, as you likely wont be working at my old agency, tydek's agency, etc, and we can only answer for our own experiences.


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## VentMedic (Mar 16, 2009)

yogakat said:


> i have yet to have any employer or client comment negatively against them and have not had any pierce affect my ability to act professionally


 
Are you already employed in a medical profession?

You can act however but the way you dress, groom and overall appearance may make the first impression.


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## Airwaygoddess (Mar 16, 2009)

What you have to remember the first impression that you give a patient, their loved ones and friends.  There is a ever growing elderly population that strongly believe the emergency services,fire, law enforcement and ems should present themselves in a certain way.  Part of the job is to represent your service, even as a student.  On your days off one can dress and wear whatever body jewerly they want.

  Another reason for removeing such items is also for safety reasons, I have known a few folks over the years that have been injuried by patients because those patients got a hold of earrings and tore earlobes, not to mention the infections resulting from that injury.

   Something to think about..........


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## yogakat (Mar 16, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Are you already employed in a medical profession?
> 
> You can act however but the way you dress, groom and overall appearance may make the first impression.




nope, not in the medical field

i'm a yoga instructor...i work at various facilities as well as leasing my own space

i have many clients who attend at their doctor's recomendation or referral, so staying professional in attitude and appearance is important

staying on top of the latest medical yoga-related information is imperative...i've invested well over 1,000 hours in trainings and would not do anything to jeopardize either the health of my clients or my own reputation...i carry my own insurance and am licensed...i have my own personal clients fill out waivers that include medical history, medications, etc...i am very serious about what i do


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## Aidey (Mar 16, 2009)

My company's policy is no visible tattoos, one earring per ear, studs preferred, but small hoops are ok, and no facial piercings. 

I've noticed however that if you don't draw attention to your piercing, people tend to not worry about it. I have my tongue pierced and wear a clear barbell and balls, which makes it pretty hard to see unless I stick my tongue out. Thus far no one has even mentioned they've seen it, so I'm not going to worry about it.


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## medic417 (Mar 16, 2009)

I forgot no tongue jewelry allowed.  To often makes person harder to understand and offends some of the older patients.


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## BossyCow (Mar 16, 2009)

This is going to be agency specific. Some have no issue with it, others are very conservative. Best to find out which is which before dressing for your interview with them.


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## yogakat (Mar 16, 2009)

Airwaygoddess said:


> What you have to remember the first impression that you give a patient, their loved ones and friends.  There is a ever growing elderly population that strongly believe the emergency services,fire, law enforcement and ems should present themselves in a certain way.



one of my specialties is working with older adults...i have one class that i've been running for about four years now and the ages are about 75-85...no one has ever said anything to me about my piercings/tattoos (with what i wear to teach, they can see my ankles) and i've never brought it up...they are a fabulous group and i treat them with the respect and care that they deserve...

i see what you are saying, tho

from my experince, if you ignore these things then clients are likely to ignore them as well (at least if you are not wearing a huge barbell in your nose )


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## Sasha (Mar 16, 2009)

yogakat said:


> one of my specialties is working with older adults...i have one class that i've been running for about four years now and the ages are about 75-85...no one has ever said anything to me about my piercings/tattoos (with what i wear to teach, they can see my ankles) and i've never brought it up...they are a fabulous group and i treat them with the respect and care that they deserve...
> 
> i see what you are saying, tho
> 
> from my experince, if you ignore these things then clients are likely to ignore them as well (at least if you are not wearing a huge barbell in your nose )



Keep in mind, your clients come to you willingly, you're not entering their home because they're having an emergency. People tend to get judgemental when they're in distress and a professional appearance goes a long way.


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## VentMedic (Mar 16, 2009)

yogakat said:


> one of my specialties is working with older adults...i have one class that i've been running for about four years now and the ages are about 75-85...no one has ever said anything to me about my piercings/tattoos (with what i wear to teach, they can see my ankles) and i've never brought it up...they are a fabulous group and i treat them with the respect and care that they deserve...
> 
> i see what you are saying, tho
> 
> from my experince, if you ignore these things then clients are likely to ignore them as well (at least if you are not wearing a huge barbell in your nose )


 
As Sasha already very clearly stated, there is a different expectation. 

To be perfectly honest, many elderly people are not going to walk up to people on the street who have multiple tatoos and piercings to ask for directions. They don't even need to be elderly to be more cautious around some groups. There is still a stereotyped amount of fear this appearance brings snd rightfully so sometimes. It the patients are in an altered state, your appearance may cause them more anxiety and will probably not instill much confidence in your level of care regardless of how good you state to be. 

Tatoos may say alot about a person's life even if they declare that is not who they are anymore. Some almost read like an autobiography. Prison and gang tatoos are also noticed during an ED assessment and may determine the level of security needed when assigning a bed. It is not singling one out as prejudice but merely ensuring safety. Healthcare workers that are employed in city hospitals usually get training for this recognition.

Since you have posted this question about tatoos/piercings and have spent time trying to justify that your tatoos/piercings are not unprofessional, you probably already know the agruments being presented.


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## Sapphyre (Mar 16, 2009)

Kat, you've gotten a lot of responses.  Again, agency specific, but, where I work, visible tattoos MUST be covered (they don't really care what they are, they MUST be covered, we have some people with nice looking elaborate sleeves, who wear long sleeve shirts year round to cover them), piercings are generally tasteful studs in the ears.  Non standard piercings are generally asked to have clear jewelry  (your cartilage rings, and nasal would probably be ok).  Navel rings are not regulated as far as I know (but, if I still had mine, it would have been torn out, more than once).


BTW, Kat, I do have tattoos, and I used to have piercings, I'm not opposed to people who have them, but, I DO understand how the general public tends to perceive people with them.  I also know, that even though I have/had these things, when I roll up first on, and my pt is all tatted and pierced, I'm more weary, I don't leave my partner for anything, unless I can still hear/see him from where I'm going, and, I'm praying (weird, for an agnostic) that fire gets there soon.


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## Sasha (Mar 16, 2009)

> Navel rings are not regulated as far as I know (but, if I still had mine, it* would have been torn out, more than once*).



That's why I decided to take mine out permanently.


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## Sapphyre (Mar 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> That's why I decided to take mine out permanently.



Yup.  Mine was out before I started EMT school, thanks to a laparoscopic appendectomy during which I had to take it out anyway, and, a week later, when I could bend over again, the hole had closed.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 16, 2009)

yogakat said:


> So far, my piercings have not made me think weird, irrational thoughts or have the desire to do naughty things...


You have to accept that many people may believe that the simple fact that you had your body modified with tattoos and piercings is itself evidence of irrational thoughts and naughty things.  Therefore, that excuse is going to be a little hard to float past them.

Most agencies I have worked for had policies similar to those already quoted, prohibiting visible piercings, other than ear studs, and limiting tattos to those not visible in uniform.  Attitudes tend to vary by region though.  Facial piercings are relatively uncommon in areas of Florida and Texas I have lived in.  But living in SoCal, it seemed like half the females there had a nose stud.  Consequently, you may find significant variations in policies.  Although, policies in a nationwide company like AMR will be consistent, as will policies in most public agencies.  Personally, if you come to me with either tattoos or piercings visible, I am probably going to politely drop your resume into the trash, as I consider it a form of disrespect to me to show up like that.  I don't need a written policy to do that.


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## Sasha (Mar 16, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> Yup.  Mine was out before I started EMT school, thanks to a laparoscopic appendectomy during which I had to take it out anyway, and, a week later, when I could bend over again, the hole had closed.



I took mine out because I liked to wear the pretty dangly ones not the barbell looking ones, and one too many times I'd gotten it tugged because the stretcher or something pushed up against my stomach, so I decided to take it out before it got caught and torn out.


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## Kookaburra (Mar 17, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> But living in SoCal, it seemed like half the females there had a nose stud.



Ha ha, I went to college in Santa Barbara, CA, and I was definitely "the weird one" on campus there because I have no tattoos or piercings other than the standard one in the earlobe.


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## BruceD (Mar 17, 2009)

Policy will differ between jobs and I'm no expert on policy.  Just remember, in an emergency situation:
1. You have a very small amount of time to gain the trust of the people on scene.  Beware of anything that might inhibit interactions with others.

2. Any scene can be dangerous, excess metals can provide conduction points for electricity or an extra object to get hung up in an extrication or even a handhold for an agitated patient.

3. Anything you wear can be a fomite for something really nasty.  

4. No matter how well attached, murphy's law happens. You sure don't want to have an ear or tongue ring drop when you are trying to intubate.

I'm sure you knew all this, my main point would be to do what is best for you and your patients, even if it's more restrictive tjan policy


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## RielHalfbreed (Mar 17, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Personally, if you come to me with either tattoos or piercings visible, I am probably going to politely drop your resume into the trash, as I consider it a form of disrespect to me to show up like that.  I don't need a written policy to do that.



I'm thankful that my service would never allow someone with this narrow minded intolerant view of people to end up in ANY kind of supervisory position. We're big on competence, not appearance. 

As for gaining the trust of people on scene, if you don't trust me you can always wait for the next rig...


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## VentMedic (Mar 17, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> I'm thankful that my service would never allow someone with this narrow minded intolerant view of people to end up in ANY kind of supervisory position. We're big on competence, not appearance.
> 
> As for gaining the trust of people on scene, if you don't trust me you can always wait for the next rig...


 
It's good to see you are all about the needs of the patient. 

If you don't care enough to properly groom and present yourself as a professional, there is a good chance your skills will be equally sloppy.


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## BossyCow (Mar 17, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> As for gaining the trust of people on scene, if you don't trust me you can always wait for the next rig...



Wow.. now there's a testimonial for how to put the patient's needs first.

On a scene, it's not about you. It's not about your right to express yourself as you see fit, it's not about your desire to decorate your body with ink, metal or T-shirts with sassy EMS sayings. 

Competence is not just measured by your skill set. Competence is also showing enough maturity and professionalism to know when your particular choices regarding your appearances are less important. Different employers in different capacities are going to hire people based on their own particular set of standards. Some of these will limit the length of your hair, the presence or absence of facial hair, make-up, hairstyle, dress, physical appearance.. .and all sorts of other ACLU offending personal choices. 

Those of us who are grownups know that while we have the absolute unalienable right to dress however we like, when we are asking someone else to give us money to perform a job, we decide which is more important, the job, or the appearance issue. 

I have nothing personal against ink or metal adornments. They do not offend me in any way. I do not have any, but more because I'm too frugal than too uptight. There are nurses in our local ER who have varying degrees of body art. However, when it comes to the patient, most of our patients are elderly, many are in varying stages of dementia or other mental impairment. I believe that adjusting my appearance so I don't scare the patients is a non issue. The back of an ambulance, during a major life threatening health event is not the time to teach the patient about expanding their tolerance levels. 

Those who get all offended and defensive over something so silly and easily dealt with tells me volumes about their maturity level and their ability to put others first. As an employer, I would have less of an issue with someone with all kinds of body art, piercings etc who says... "Sure, I can cover them up" than I would with someone with a small tat or piercing who is all defensive about it. The issue is not the art, but the attitude. 

Appearance is part of competence.


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## medic417 (Mar 17, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> I'm thankful that my service would never allow someone with this narrow minded intolerant view of people to end up in ANY kind of supervisory position. We're big on *incompetence*, not *professional *appearance.
> 
> As for gaining the trust of people on scene, if you don't trust me you can always wait for the next rig...



There fixed it for you.  And actually you will find professionals will not even if the policy does not require it make sure tats are covered and jewelry is left at home.  A professional understands much of their job is about patient comfort and many older and even many younger people still look at tats and piercings as left for bad people.


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## Veneficus (Mar 17, 2009)

*Medicine is its own culture*

"If you don't know what you are doing, at least look like you do."

As always many of the regular contributers like AJ, Vent, Bossy, and Saph have summed up the issue quite well, but permit me to add perspective.

First addressing waiting for the next rig. 

For my part I regard treating patients as one of the greatest honors that can be bestowed upon a person. It is truly a priviledge, not a right. For a patient, to allow another person to come to you in their moment of need, and allow that person access to your body and most intimate details, is not to be taken lightly.

You must not only gain trust, but inspire confidence as well. I don't have anything against body art or the like, but factually it is a matter of culture. I found it benefits patient care to be culturally as neutral as possible. You don't know if your next patient will be the at the local nightclub or the most conservative community leader in your town. Happy patients are less likely to sue than angry patients. If you look the part both you and your patients will be better served. Doesn't get much better than Win/Win.

The perspective I wanted to add...

When you are part of a medical field, you are placed at a level above society to act in the benefit of man. (The next time you have to make a decision for an unconscious or against the will of a patient, keep that in mind) It is not part of the position to demand respect for your cultural subset. There are professional standards that have been agreed upon by those in the profession for many years. If you do not agree, then you are not forced to participate. In addition, whether you like it or not, your patients are your employer. They have demands and you have a responsibility to live up to them as best you can. 

Nobody ever says "that one paramedic" was a jerk or incompetent. They identify the group. "The paramedics that showed up scared me." Please have some pride in what you do as well as promoting the respect of others who share your title. 

Are you ever really off work? Once your neighbors and community identify you as a healthcare worker, everything you do gets unfairly put under a microscope. But life isn't fair. (one more reason not to wear EMS t-shirts) 

"To whom much is given much is required."
(can't remember where i heard that but it seems true)

If this all sounds like something you don't want to deal with or be part of, there are always other career choices.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 17, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> I'm thankful that my service would never allow someone with this narrow minded intolerant view of people to end up in ANY kind of supervisory position. We're big on competence, not appearance.
> 
> As for gaining the trust of people on scene, if you don't trust me you can always wait for the next rig...



Ne need in applying in about 40 states. Ever seen news anchors or Senators etc with nose piercing? It's called professionalism demeanor. 

Guess what, I prefer not to have someone that has poor respect of their body to treat mine like what? 

If you want such attention that's fine, just don't expect to be employed in a professional position. 

R/ r911


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## RielHalfbreed (Mar 18, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> If you want such attention that's fine, just don't expect to be employed in a professional position.
> 
> R/ r911



Fascinating, yet I'm an ops manager in a medium service and don't even remotely share the above opinions. Good to see things are changing. BTW some senators/congressmen do have body art, especially those who have completed military service. As for regarding patient care as a priority, hey thats why we all got into this line of work. However if you call for EMS and they arrive and you decide that your "cultural reservations" are more important than your injury/illness, power to you thats your choice. This isn't McDonald's were all qualified to be here. In this area we have a large contingent of aged patients that have a problem with black and native canadian attendants. Should dispatch have a comfort questionnaire as part of their protocol? I'm going to go with no, if you don't like who shows up I maintain call back and they'll be happy to send out another unit.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 18, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> BTW some senators/congressmen do have body art, especially those who have completed military service.


Good luck finding one who freely displayed their tattoos while running for office.  They know better.  You should too.

And I am offended by your insinuation that military veterans all have tattoos.


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## RielHalfbreed (Mar 18, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Good luck finding one who freely displayed their tattoos while running for office.  They know better.  You should too.
> 
> And I am offended by your insinuation that military veterans all have tattoos.



Get real, there was no such insinuation.

Caroline Kennedy prior to removing her name from the new york senate race displayed the small butterfly tattoo'd on the inside of her arm: 






*“I’m thinking about getting a tat of Reagan’s face,” said Congressman John Shadegg*, “Nothing too outlandish, just the Gipper and with Reagan 21 motto of integrity, principle, and freedom next to it – maybe in Old English script.”

Would you trust these people:



































Or the people sporting these:











*I would and so should you, because one day they might be the one to save your a$$...* B)


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah, that's what I want working on me! Someone that feels that they have to make a statement. If you noticed that all LEO were wearing long sleeves rolled up, as well as the physician has to cover his too. Your choice, want to wear one with long sleeves and the temp >100 degrees don't b-itch about it. 

You might be an ops mgr, so titles don't impress me. I am one too, required wear shirt & tie most of the time, to be presentable to professionals. Sorry, I outgrew the "making a statement" mode long time ago. 

Just don't even waste your time applying if you have visable tatts. 

R/r 911


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## Sasha (Mar 18, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> Fascinating, yet I'm an ops manager in a medium service and don't even remotely share the above opinions. Good to see things are changing. BTW some senators/congressmen do have body art, especially those who have completed military service. As for regarding patient care as a priority, hey thats why we all got into this line of work. However if you call for EMS and they arrive and you decide that your "cultural reservations" are more important than your injury/illness, power to you thats your choice. This isn't McDonald's were all qualified to be here. In this area we have a large contingent of aged patients that have a problem with black and native canadian attendants. Should dispatch have a comfort questionnaire as part of their protocol? I'm going to go with no, if you don't like who shows up I maintain call back and they'll be happy to send out another unit.



You are there for the patient, the patient isn't there for you. Anything that you can reasonably control to make them more comfortable, you should. Being black or canadian is something that people can't control. Your piercings and tattoos, you can.

Have the tattoos all you want, but COVER them. It's not that hard, sweets, it really isn't. Take the piercings out, if you can't take them out, cover them.

Someone's home during their emergency is not the place for your self expression, it is not the place to make them feel insecure with your multiple piercings and tattoos. It is the place to establish an air of professionalism, let them think that they're being taken care of someone that they can trust, that's mature enough to handle it.

Senators with ink aren't coming into a person's home in the midst of a possibly life ending event. It doesn't matter what the call is, to the caller it is an emergency and you are visiting them at a vulnerable time.  Take notice, that both cops in those pictures look to have their shirt sleeve rolled up. The doctor is wearing a lab coat. The first military man appears to have his shirt sleeve pushed up. Notice the people in the back ground of the second? Long sleeves. Seems he took his shirt off. Miss Kennedy's is small and not attention grabbing. Honestly, in the picture you can't tell if it's a butterfly or a bruise.

No one is forcing you to be in EMS. If self expression is more important to you than a patient's comfort level, there's always barber school.


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## Aidey (Mar 18, 2009)

If we're going to put an outright ban on tattoos and piercings, why not take it a step further and say no jewelry period. After all an EMS responders cross, star of david, pentagram, LDS ring or Masons ring etc could offend a patient also. But if that becomes the policy, people will start to cry about their religious freedoms being taken away.

Blanket bans aren't good policy. While outward appearance is important, it's absurd to discount a potentially excellent Medic or EMT based solely on one aspect of their appearance.


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## Sasha (Mar 18, 2009)

> Blanket bans aren't good policy. While outward appearance is important, it's absurd to discount a potentially excellent Medic or EMT based solely on one aspect of their appearance.



Services have a right to choose how they want their company represented. If that means no visible jewelry besides one stud in each earlobe for a female, wedding ring and watch, then that is their right.


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## VentMedic (Mar 18, 2009)

Aidey said:


> If we're going to put an outright ban on tattoos and piercings, why not take it a step further and say no jewelry period. After all an EMS responders cross, star of david, pentagram, LDS ring or Masons ring etc could offend a patient also. But if that becomes the policy, people will start to cry about their religious freedoms being taken away.
> 
> Blanket bans aren't good policy. While outward appearance is important, it's absurd to discount a potentially excellent Medic or EMT based solely on one aspect of their appearance.


 
But, if you want to work in certain areas of healthcare, blanket bans are appropriate. This applies in many NICUs, PICUs and SICUs where no jewely is allowed above the waist or anywhere visible below the waist. Long sleeves are not worn and there is a policy for no visible tatoos. So, any RT, RN or even MD that is thinking about working in one of these units, they will be disappointed. But, they do have the choice to work in an area that is less strict or become an EMT and work for RielHalfbreed's company where the patient's safety or comfort is not a priority. As also ready stated by RielHalfbreed:


> As for gaining the trust of people on scene, if you don't trust me you can always wait for the next rig...


Again, healthcare is about the patient and not the vanity of the provider.

There have been many aspiring politicians and celebs that have gone to great expense to have their tats removed becasue they know what it does to their public image for the majority of people they represent. I have even had the chance to ask them why and they will say the tatoo is not who they are anymore and it doesn't give a good impression on those they want to represent. I've also seen many tatoos on patients during assessments and find some patients are more embarrassed by their tatoos being seen then their naked body. People change. What might have been a good time at 18 may not look that good at 30.


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## Aidey (Mar 18, 2009)

But those rules are not just social rules, those are done for patient health and safety. Perfumes can exacerbate respiratory problems and allergies, and jewelry can harbor bacteria. 

As I said before, if we are really and truly concerned with the patients comfort level with their provider we would ban all religious symbols to prevent someone from being offended their provider is a different religion. We would also require that all ambulances had both a female and male paramedic on them to ensure that a patient could be examined by the provider of their choice. We would require that all women have long hair, because that is traditional, and short hair on a woman could offend an elderly patient. We would require that all men have short hair for the same reason. 

We aren't going to be able to make every single patient happy all of the time. Knowing that I would rather work with a good partner who has an old tattoo than work with some idiot who happened to fit the company image.


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## VentMedic (Mar 18, 2009)

Aidey said:


> But those rules are not just social rules, those are done for patient health and safety. Perfumes can exacerbate respiratory problems and allergies, and jewelry can harbor bacteria.


 
Are you saying EMS is just a social gathering? EMS should not be concerned about the patient's safety and health? Why shouldn't EMS be considered a medical profession and preserve the same patient issues as others? Why shouldn't EMS also present themselves as professionals? 

You don't think other health professionals wear jewelry that designates their religious beliefs? They remove it or pin it inside a pocket to where it is still on their person but out of sight. They make the adjustments, not the patient. You don't think one of the nursing unions wouldn't have squawked loudly. They understand issues when it involves direct patient care. Rarely do we have any problem asking a professional who is well educated in accepting and protecting the rights of others. This is, of course, another argument for more education for the EMS provider since emotions more than logic or understanding rules for many in this profession. The other issue is some got into EMS and didn't realize there was patient care involved as well as that part about acting like a professional in public. Other professionals have had this presented to them from the day they interview for a healthcare program. 



> As I said before, if we are really and truly concerned with the patients comfort level with their provider we would ban all religious symbols to prevent someone from being offended their provider is a different religion. We would also require that all ambulances had both a female and male paramedic on them to ensure that a patient could be examined by the provider of their choice. We would require that all women have long hair, because that is traditional, and short hair on a woman could offend an elderly patient. We would require that all men have short hair for the same reason.


 
Elderly people also accept a female who has their hair tied up or even in a bun. My grandmother wore a bun or tied her hair up and it did not offend her friends who wore their hair in a similar fashion. Many from that generation also wore their hair short enough for a stylish perm with the teased look. Rarely will you see an older woman wearing long hair down on their shoulders. Many services require of men that wear long hair to put it up and off the collar. Try to go through a fire, PD academy or even a good EMS or healthcare school with hair touching your collar, male or female.


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## Sasha (Mar 18, 2009)

> would require that all women have long hair, because that is traditional, and short hair on a woman could offend an elderly patient.



Funnily enough, I rarely see an elderly person with long hair. It's usually poofy and short, ala this:


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## Aidey (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm saying that a fully healed tattoo doesn't pose a risk to the patient like a ring with many crevices does. What is "professional" is a societal construct, while how many bacteria are growing somewhere is concrete. 

I see nurses, doctors, other EMS providers, FFs and police officers wearing religious jewelry all the time, so maybe restrictions on it here aren't as strict as they are in other places. Where I used to live the nursing union did squawk loudly when one of the hospitals started requiring that all jewelry be removed. The argument was that it violated the religious rights of some of the nurses because of some of the specifics of their religions (it's a long story; has to do with the religions intrepretation of what a misisonary is or something like that). 

I've also been told by a little old lady that it was entierly improper for me to be running around in pants doing men's work, so you never know what is going to set off a patient. I believe it was the first time I was ever really "tsk"ed at. She also spent the whole transport telling me that my place was at home tending children and taking care of my husband. (I'm not married, have no kids btw). 

Anyway, the point is that there are many other fields that work with people as closely as EMS providers do that are not as strict as many people think we need to be. Although I'm starting to think that some of the variances are influenced by location in the US and differences in the norm between the areas.


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## BossyCow (Mar 18, 2009)

My issues have nothing to do with "Is ink bad" or "Are tats and piercings a sign of moral turpitude"... My issue is and always has been the attitude of the one wearing it. Too many accompany their body art with a chip on their shoulder the size of Texas. Seriously, I could give a rat's patootie how you choose to decorate yourself. But, when the defense of your decoration takes precedence over your job, and the feelings/sensitivities of others then I really have to question your priorities. 

To say that this is the same thing as rascism (a tired argument that has been presented before) is ridiculous. They are not the same, we do not choose our ethnicity. Our racial history is something we are born with, tats and piercings are a choice. Would you be so quick to defend the guy who shows up on calls with a ratty T-shirt, holes in his jeans, unshaven, with bad breath? We all set standards.... by different criteria, but the standards have been set. 

Personally I do not believe that EMS is the place to groundbreak social mores. You are fortunate enough to have found an employer who is willing to accept your attitude and your appearance. Many will not. If it is so important to you to be an activist for social change, then realize that this activism will make you less employable in the general public. Further clarification is available in any college level sociology class.


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## BruceD (Mar 18, 2009)

RielHalfbreed said:


> I'm thankful that my service would never allow someone with this narrow minded intolerant view of people to end up in ANY kind of supervisory position. We're big on competence, not appearance.



Such a tired old cliche, when will "narrow minded" & "intolerant" end up in the same stack with calling someone a "nazi" and show that you have already lost your argument a la Godwin's Law

Just because someone disagrees with you does not necessarily mean they are narrow minded nor intolerant, perhaps they have already fully examined the issue to their satisfaction and arrived at an educated decision that they are comfortable with?  Maybe, just maybe, they've even found facts that you yourself have not considered, but if you are unwilling to consider this possibility, you are just narrow minded and intolerant of others' beliefs and decisions.

If you want your ems service to look like Dawg bounty hunter or the Car Repo show on Court TV, that is fine and dandy.  However, everything I read on this forum seems to indicate a common desire for EMS to become a profession and to gain the respect "that we deserve".  For that, there will have to be hard choices, much education, and even some sacrifice.  Respect is earned.  It is not awarded or given or gifted.

I don't have any problems with body art / piercings, but if it interferes with how a patient interacts with me, it's gotta go.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 18, 2009)

Just remember, for every one that has a tattoo there are two that don't  I can hire.


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## VentMedic (Mar 18, 2009)

Aidey said:


> I'm saying that a fully healed tattoo doesn't pose a risk to the patient like a ring with many crevices does. What is "professional" is a societal construct, while how many bacteria are growing somewhere is concrete.


You have missed the point. Hospitals and EMS do not just cater to those who like to see tatoos. Thus, they must be covered which is also displayed in the pictures of the physician and LEO in *RielHalfbreed's* post. Unfortunately in the the specialty areas that I mentioned, long sleeves are not allowed unless they are part of a sterile gown for special procedure. I seriously doubt a hospital will put out the cost of one gown per worker for each baby they touch in a shift. 

Even wedding rings may be required to be removed for scrubbing between patients and are pinned on the inside of a pocket. 



Aidey said:


> I see nurses, doctors, other EMS providers, FFs and police officers wearing religious jewelry all the time, so maybe restrictions on it here aren't as strict as they are in other places. Where I used to live the nursing union did squawk loudly when one of the hospitals started requiring that all jewelry be removed. The argument was that it violated the religious rights of some of the nurses because of some of the specifics of their religions (it's a long story; has to do with the religions interpretation of what a misisonary is or something like that).


 
Do you work in an OR, PICU, NICU, SICU or any other specialized area in the hospital? You have made very general comments labeling many medical professionals as you want them to fit in to your own world.

Yes, the nursing unions may have squawked but what they found was those professionals they represent also squawked back in defense of patient care and preserving the image of the profession. It is not unusual for a union to not necessarily have the best interests of the majority of those who pay union dues but must represent a few which is also why it is difficult to get rid of those who don't belong in the profession, tatoos or not. 

Healthcare is full of compromises. You either abide by the rules of professionalism of your company and do what is best with the patient in mind or find a place where you can have it your way. If you do not understand why the rules are in place, then maybe you do need to seek other employment. 

Healthcare professionals, including doctors, must learn to work with their beliefs and put the patient's needs first and that may also include the special beliefs of the patient. This includes Catholic, Jewish and Jehovah's Witnesses as well as the KKK and Aryan nation. 

A doctor who is a Jehovah's Witness and cannot refrain from imposing his/her beliefs about accepting blood on the patient probably won't be working in a trauma center.

Those who are members of the KKK and Aryan nation probably would not consider San Francisco, Miami or NYC to be ideal work environments unless they can put their patient's needs first regardless of their societal or even religious beliefs.

Again, future EMS providers should be introduced to the concept of professional healthcare before they even enter the classroom.   Thus it won't be such a surprise when they enter the working world.


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## rescuepoppy (Mar 18, 2009)

While I do have three tattoos they are all on my shoulder so not visible with my shirt on. I do not feel that visible tattoos are professional looking in any health care field. This is due to the fact that I have had some people comment on the fact they give the impression that the wearer does not respect their bodies. While I don't agree with this you can not change the way some people feel. We are going into peoples homes and seeing them at times when they or some one they love are in distress if we have done things to our bodies that they don't like and in turn causes them more distress then we are not doing the best job of taking care of them that we can. I have treated many patients who have tattoos and have found that comment on their ink can at times be a good way to put these patients at ease. However in the case of patients that are opposed to them they can have a negative effect. So while I agree with a person's rights to express their self as they see fit I can also see a services right to hire workers that give off the image they want to have. Having tattoos and piercings is a matter of choice to us as individuals, but who they want to have working for them is a matter of choice for companies.


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## karaya (Mar 18, 2009)

Noticing RielHalfBreed's avatar, it's no wonder why he is so passionate about tattoos.


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## Aidey (Mar 18, 2009)

Vent I think we are comparing two groups that really can't be accurately compared. I have no doubt you are right that many of the specialized wards in hospitals have blanket bans on jewelry and such, but those areas are also much more controlled than your average field profession. 

People are picking on EMS in this thread, saying we are unprofessional because we tolerate tattoos and piercings and other professions don't. My point is that I have seen other professionals that are non-EMS sporting the same things. Obviously some segments of these other professions also tolerate these things, or else they are just as unprofessional as we are.


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## WarDance (Mar 18, 2009)

I believe that in order for EMS to be accepted into the medical field there should be more strict rules about appearence.  EMS professionals need to look professional.  It helps instill confidence in patients.  For that reason I believe that jewelry should be minimized, tattoos shouldn't be seen, and hair should be kept neat.


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## VentMedic (Mar 18, 2009)

Aidey said:


> People are picking on EMS in this thread, saying we are unprofessional because we tolerate tattoos and piercings and other professions don't. My point is that I have seen other professionals that are non-EMS sporting the same things. Obviously some segments of these other professions also tolerate these things, or else they are just as unprofessional as we are.


 
EMS already has many things to pick on such as low education standards, ease of entry and just hire a warm body mentality. Poor dress and grooming habits just add to the list. 

Of course there are other professions that tolerate tattoos but just not that easy to find in the healthcare professions. 

And yes there are medical professionals who have tattoos but the majority of them do not flaunt them in the patient care areas. You might also ask these healthcare workers what jobs they may have had to pass up or settle for because of their tattoos. 

Trying to justify your own behavior by the actions of a few when there are millions in the healthcare professions who don't approve of that behavior is not a worthy argument. 

Visible tattoos and excessive jewelry have not be allowed in any EMS or Flight service that I have been associated with in the past 30 years. If these things had been visibly tolerated, I probably would not have been associated with that service. I also adhere to a high standard of professionalism and prefer to work for agencies that have similar high standards.


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## Aidey (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm not talking about excessive decoration, I was talking about the blanket bans on everything. I agree that excessive anything probably isn't appropriate, but I'm also not a fan of the blanket bans when they are purely in the interest of no offending anyone (because you are never going to be able to please everyone, see my earlier examples on religion etc). I haven't seen anyone with anything that could be considered excessive, but I have seen several nurses in the EDs here that have upper ear piercings, small nose studs and even one or two with an eye brow piercing.


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## BossyCow (Mar 18, 2009)

Aidey said:


> People are picking on EMS in this thread, saying we are unprofessional because we tolerate tattoos and piercings and other professions don't. My point is that I have seen other professionals that are non-EMS sporting the same things. Obviously some segments of these other professions also tolerate these things, or else they are just as unprofessional as we are.



I don't think anyone is equating tolerance with unprofessionalism. But, putting your desire to make a personal statement with your appearance first does imply a certain amount of egoism when it takes on more importance than the comfort of those you work with or for. 

Different workplaces vary in the amount of formality required. Some places allow jeans, others require a suit. Still others uniforms or protective equipment. A workplace has the right to determine its standards and how it chooses to present itself to the public. As long as it is done within legal guidelines. For example, how many ugly waitresses do you see at Hooters?

If you choose to place an extreme appearance as a high priority, you will limit your hireability. Period.


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## VentMedic (Mar 18, 2009)

Aidey said:


> but I have seen several nurses in the EDs here that have upper ear piercings, small nose studs and even one or two with an eye brow piercing.


 
Maybe the ED was not their first choice of an area to work.  Maybe they made that decision after not being allowed to work in other patient care areas if it meant giving up their body jewelry.  It just depends on how bad you want a job and what sacrifices you are willing to make.  Unfortunately, tattoos are permanent unless you go through an expensive removal process.  If you are getting a tattoo only to make a statement you believe in now, think about it carefully.  Someday you may want a position that might require one to dress and groom to a different standard.   Do you really believe the hospital will premote the nurses you keep referring to?  Do you think they will make nurse manager or education coordinator unless they give up the extra body jewelry?


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