# Flat tire in rig, now what?



## MMiz (Dec 26, 2004)

Last week I was driving down a major highway and heard a hissss silence hissss silence, and never having a flat tire, thought maybe that's what it sounded like.  After pulling over, it was confirmed.  I had no patient on board.

I pulled over, put on the lights, and set out three reflective safety triangles.  I was on right hand shoulder on a busy road, and thought it would be best to put the lightbar / all lights on.

All of a sudden I see a car spin lose control, spin around, and have minor contact with another car.  This was about 25 yards up the road.

After running down the road, and confirming their were no injuries, we were towed back to the station.  

I ask you the following questions:

1.  Do you put on all lights in this scenario?  Other experienced medics said they wouldnt, saying they would only cause additional accidents (like we experienced).

2.  As an EMT, do you have any experience in traffic control?  We had one car on the left shoulder and one of the right, how would you stop traffic?  I started waving around, but all I got were people rolling down the windows and asking "What the hell do you want me to do?

3.  Do your rigs have double wheels in back?  Our larger "Mods" do, but our Type II BLS don't.

Another learning experience


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## rescuecpt (Dec 26, 2004)

I would say for your safety, treat the patient on your side of the road, and let PD stop traffic when they arrive.  Don't put your life at risk trying to cross a busy road.  A splat EMT is no help to anyone.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 27, 2004)

First, I would probably just use the 4-way flashers on the rig and not the christmas tree unless I was obstructing part of the roadway.

Secondly, we do a lot of traffic control where I'm at.  Our minimum requirements are to be wearing reflective clothing, have a flashlight, and set out several road flares.  (I'm trying to get my department to change over from fusees to chem lights, so we don't start as many wildland fires at the scene of an accident.)  We also direct traffic from the side of the road, and not the middle of it.

Finally, all we run are Type III's, so all of our rigs are dualies on the rear axle.


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## cbdemt (Dec 27, 2004)

Since our ambulance is through the fire dept, the rescue rig is dispatched for all MVA's.  They handle the traffic control.  They usually use orange cones and several firefighters stand in the lane that is closed (behind the rigs) and direct with flashlights.  My department doesn't hesitate to close a road if it means a safer scene... motorists don't appreciate it much, but then again I don't appreciate a semi truck flying by at 75mph when I'm trying to work a pt.  

I hesitate to say this... but we haven't had any mechanical problems for a looong time.  Lucky I guess.  Our local ALS agency hasn't been so lucky though.  On the 23rd they had 2 rigs broken down on opposite sides of the county.  They usually only run 3, maybe 4.  I don't know how many times I heard "ALS has no available units" that night.  If you ask me, its time to retire some of the old dinosaurs... but the cash isn't coming out of my pocket I guess....


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## Jon (Dec 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MMiz_@Dec 26 2004, 10:40 PM
> * Last week I was driving down a major highway and heard a hissss silence hissss silence, and never having a flat tire, thought maybe that's what it sounded like.  After pulling over, it was confirmed.  I had no patient on board.
> 
> I pulled over, put on the lights, and set out three reflective safety triangles.  I was on right hand shoulder on a busy road, and thought it would be best to put the lightbar / all lights on.
> ...


 A - If you are on the side of the road, hazard flashers, flares, and secondaries - if your vehicle dies in the middle of a 3-lane overpass exit ramp (Seen it with my co) - if the traffic is light - FLARES to the rear, maybe. if traffic is heavy - ALL LIGHTS ON - EVERY ONE - driver - foot on brake, and call for a tow and PD ASAP - don't count on your Co. to call it in. KEEP YOUR SEATBELTS ON!

<soapbox away>

Sounds like you did everything reasonable, and that person was just an idiot looking for an excuse to wreck.


Jon


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## coloradoemt (Dec 28, 2004)

I have had a flat before with a patient on board. If you are not comfortable with directing traffic maybe a Flagger course will help you some. We are Fire and Ambulance combined so I have had this course. It sounds simple, and parts of the class are quite silly, but it does teach you how to stay out of the way of the idiots who really try hard to wreck no matter what you do. Since you are still breathing it sounds like your actions were good enough.


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## MMiz (Dec 29, 2004)

Great comments everyone.

As a side note, the vehicle was not even a year old, and the tires were brand spankin' new.  I'm guessing I ran over an object.

Traffic control is something I have absolutely no understanding of beyond common sense.  We rely on PD for all traffic control, but being non-emergent, PD did not arrive on the minor PDA for more than 30 minutes.

It was definitely a learning experience, thanks all


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## Jon (Dec 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MMiz_@Dec 29 2004, 12:16 AM
> * <SNIP>but being non-emergent, PD did not arrive on the minor PDA for more than 30 minutes.
> 
> *


 WHAT!!!!

I don't care what it is, I go Priority1 to any PD/FD/EMS involved incident - I do it because I expect them to do it for me.


Jon


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## SafetyPro2 (Dec 30, 2004)

If I was in my department's ambo and on the side of the road, I'd probably flip the light control to the first position, which puts on the amber flashers above the rear doors (second position adds the front red solid lights and the rear side amber flashers, and third position is everything) and use the standard hazards. If I was at all blocking traffic, I'd light it up all the way.

We don't as a rule do any traffic control, since all 911 calls go to PD first (and are then transferred to our regional fire dispatch) and they're usually on-scene before we are. Occasionally, we'll get in first, and usually we'll use the "big red four wheeled" traffic flare to block. We're just operating on two lane streets though...no highways.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SafetyPro_@Dec 30 2004, 09:49 PM
> * Occasionally, we'll get in first, and usually we'll use the "big red four wheeled" traffic flare to block. We're just operating on two lane streets though...no highways. *


 Ours are yellow (Don't get me started about the color of the fire trucks), and the state patrol JUST LOVES US WHEN WE SHUT DOWN THE HIGHWAY WITH THEM /Sarcasm off

Seriously, it is much better for someone to hit my rig rather than hit me.


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## cbdemt (Dec 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ffemt8978+Dec 31 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (ffemt8978 @ Dec 31 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SafetyPro_@Dec 30 2004, 09:49 PM
> * Occasionally, we'll get in first, and usually we'll use the "big red four wheeled" traffic flare to block. We're just operating on two lane streets though...no highways. *


Ours are yellow (Don't get me started about the color of the fire trucks), and the state patrol JUST LOVES US WHEN WE SHUT DOWN THE HIGHWAY WITH THEM /Sarcasm off

Seriously, it is much better for someone to hit my rig rather than hit me. [/b][/quote]
 AMEN brother!


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## Jon (Dec 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ffemt8978+Dec 31 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (ffemt8978 @ Dec 31 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SafetyPro_@Dec 30 2004, 09:49 PM
> * Occasionally, we'll get in first, and usually we'll use the "big red four wheeled" traffic flare to block. We're just operating on two lane streets though...no highways. *


Ours are yellow (Don't get me started about the color of the fire trucks), and the state patrol JUST LOVES US WHEN WE SHUT DOWN THE HIGHWAY WITH THEM /Sarcasm off

Seriously, it is much better for someone to hit my rig rather than hit me. [/b][/quote]
 Yeah. My squad covers about 15 miles of PA Turnpike. W were 2nd due when a tractor trailer lost control and wrecked an engine and an ambulance that then rolled over sevral personel. One was a LODD.  http://www.respondersafety.com/news/2001/j...road_rules.html

PSP (the state Troopers) were in charge when the discision was made to close the road. My old chief was adamant that if need be, the rescue would work to block the road, and if it needed to be closed, it would be, damn the torpedos and full speed ahead.


The PSP usually are good when it comes to shutting down the lane we are working in, but it is still a tiny bit uncomfortable doing extrication with traffic doing 65 5 feet to your rear.

I know that philly FD dispatches a tower ladder and an engine with the medic for any MVC on the highways. The SOP is usually for the ladder to block traffic, and the crew pull the portable hurst off the truck and procede with extrication.


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## rescuecpt (Dec 31, 2004)

My corps has part of the Long Island Expressway.  It makes me very nervous working in the HOV lane because even though we have police park behind the wreck and we park in front, and we take every precaution to walk between the wall and the wreck, I've heard so many stories of people losing control, not paying attention, etc, and slamming into an existing accident.  And even though the limit on the LIE is 55mph, for the most part the speed is 70 to 75mph.


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## Summit (Jan 3, 2005)

Our driver blew a tire on our double transport. Scared the crap out of me. Dept policy is not to change the tire ourselves but rather to limp to a service station and have someone else do it.


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## Jon (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Summit_@Jan 3 2005, 01:24 PM
> * Our driver blew a tire on our double transport. Scared the crap out of me. Dept policy is not to change the tire ourselves but rather to limp to a service station and have someone else do it. *


 None of the companies I've worked for have had "change flat tires" in the job description, I would try to change the flat, If I had all the tools, a good spare, and had someplace better to be than parked along the side of the road.

I actually just remembered that the last time I had a flat, I was the EMT on a ALS transport truck. We were headed up for a 45-minute+ trip with a kid on a vent back to one of the city's childrens hospitals. I slept the whole way out, as I was 13 hours into a 24 hour double. Next thing I knwo,. 2 hours after we headed out, my patner comes around the back and wakes me up off the bench seat. She said that our mechanic was enrout with a spare tire, as there wasn't one on the truck, and that she just wanted me to know so I wasn't suprised. I thanked her and promptly fell back asleep. 2 hours later the mechanic (if you could call him that) showed up, and after much head-scratching, he backed the truck up 50 feet into a service garage, which promptly swapped the tires for us for free. (I think my partners' several milli-Helens of buty helped at least as much as the sick kid we were going to pick up) then as soon as the flat was changed, we were told that the run had cancelled  

Anyway, the good old days......


Jon


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