# Air Evacs Services transports patient despite protest



## Flight-LP (Nov 17, 2013)

http://www.azcentral.com/business/c...transport-protests-call12.html?nclick_check=1


Someone has some 'plainin to do!


EDIT (working link but site wants registration after time)  http://www.azcentral.com/business/c...r-evac-patient-transport-protests-call12.html


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 18, 2013)

I don't know why they would fly a seizure patient, but maybe they had a reason…  And "waking up in the ambulance" and suddenly being fully alert sounds a little fishy to me.  I have yet to meet a seizure patient who doesn't have a postictal phase following their seizure.  If she was restrained, she was likely a combative postictal patient to boot.  I've frequently had postictal people frantically thrash and try to get up or get away…  Perhaps she remembers some of this.  

I bet they did a cost assessment and realized it would be cheaper to just dismiss her bill rather than fighting it in court, not to mention avoiding even more media hassle.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 18, 2013)

TheLocalMedic said:


> I don't know why they would fly a seizure patient, but maybe they had a reason…  And "waking up in the ambulance" and suddenly being fully alert sounds a little fishy to me.  I have yet to meet a seizure patient who doesn't have a postictal phase following their seizure.  If she was restrained, she was likely a combative postictal patient to boot.  I've frequently had postictal people frantically thrash and try to get up or get away…  Perhaps she remembers some of this.
> 
> I bet they did a cost assessment and realized it would be cheaper to just dismiss her bill rather than fighting it in court, not to mention avoiding even more media hassle.



It doesn't say the time frame of when she woke up. When a patient says "I woke up" it could mean that she was awake but altered and then when the ambulance pulled to the helipad she was alert and orientated


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## WTEngel (Nov 18, 2013)

What a cluster all the way around. I am not sure who is in the right or in the wrong here...but it just seems like a mess.

It is unfortunate that PHI kind of has their hands tied regarding the ability for them to tell their story...so we only hear a very comprehensive, un-refuted side of the story, from the patient.

I will say this though...most air medical companies do not make a habit of simply dismissing patient bills simply because they come back later with a protest to the transport. My sneaking suspicion is that someone at PHI legal saw this case, and said it would be in their best interest to make this go away fast.


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## johnrsemt (Nov 18, 2013)

Surprised it doesn't happen more often;   they are flying more and more people for things that don't need flown.   And Insurance companies look at the ambulance run sheet, then the Flight sheet,  then the hospital work up  and go  "no way we are paying for this".

  Friend's son had a helicopter called for him, due to the dispatch of gun shot,   The EMS that got there 20 minutes before the helicopter kept them coming so that "higher medical authority could evaluate the patient and injury"    The flight crew left it up to the 15 year old if he wanted to be flown.     He thought it was a cool thing to fly;    (didn't realize that it would be something that his parents would have to pay for):   so they  flew a kid that shot himself in the BIG TOE deer hunting.


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## Amberlamps916 (Nov 18, 2013)

I lost all hope when a patient was flown out of my area with a partial ear amputation. Stable vitals, nothing out of the ordinary except for the ear. And we waited 20 mins for the bird to land. It takes about 40-45 mins to drive to the trauma center.

Seriously, if you guys want a laugh, keep track of what gets flown out of the high desert in CA. Extreme abuse of air ambulances daily because fire and ems do not want to drive to the trauma/stroke center.


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## TRSpeed (Nov 18, 2013)

Lol rancho and 395 man times are tough up there, no mo ambulapses


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## Farmer2DO (Nov 24, 2013)

I doubt she was "alert and oriented" after her seizure. That seriously calls into question her ability to refuse care, IMHO.

That being said, why would you fly a seizure patient? Casa Grande Medical Center lists 13 neurologists on staff. It seems that they are more than qualified to treat this patient.

I'm betting that the scene was run by a group of "low information voters".


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## VFlutter (Nov 24, 2013)

I like in the video "And she proved she was competent....She asked if I knew where I was at and I said yes" Oh that was easy


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## billydunwood (Nov 25, 2013)

Sounds like she was A&O prior to being airlifted , consistently refuses to be airlifted, they have a fully functional ER right near the helipad, the EMT/medic apoligizes to her at her other ER bed AND the company suddenly wipes out the bill 3 days after the news gets a hold of it. 

I hope she takes some money from them and I hope those employees get some serious retraining


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## billydunwood (Nov 25, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> It doesn't say the time frame of when she woke up. When a patient says "I woke up" it could mean that she was awake but altered and then when the ambulance pulled to the helipad she was alert and orientated


That's why you take her to the ER right by the Helipad to be examined by an ER doctor and possibly a neurologist(hosptial lists neurologists on staff) who has obviously more authority and experience than an EMT/medic. And I would especially do that if the patient was protesting being flown


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