# 3 days into medic school and we've already got a drop out



## Onceamedic (Aug 22, 2007)

I asked my paramedic instructor on Monday what the attrition rate for the course was.  I wanted to know how many of the shiny faces sitting in the chairs statistically would be collecting the parchment.  He did not give me a percentage, but said "lately, we've been losing a lot for personal reasons".  
Today, a student dropped out. This woman has 4 kids, a deadbeat ex (divorced less than a year) and a full time job.  I'm not surprised that she has bailed but I'm a little upset about it.  3 days into the course and we've lost one.  I spent 1 1/2 years on the wait list and I hope they can put someone in the spot.  

Does anyone know what the stats are ?  How many people do this ?


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## VentMedic (Aug 22, 2007)

Kaisu said:


> Does anyone know what the stats are ?  How many people do this ?



This all depends on the type of paramedic program.  The private vocational tech schools (PDQ Medic Mart) that cost several thousand dollars can have 50% or more for a dropout rate. This is often due to the "used car" sales tactics to get students in that really aren't prepped for intense academic work.  Even some community colleges may see a 20 - 40% dropout rate. Again, some offer a certificate program and people find they are not ready for a full academic load in their life's schedule. 

The better rates are with the colleges that want students to complete the science prerequisites first. The students then have a chance to ease into academic life and adjust their schedules accordingly before getting into a rigid clinical/class situation.  The student has already put some effort, time and investment into the career and tends to continue. Also they may have acquired more working experience as an EMT during this time and are truly sure of their path.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 22, 2007)

I have found that advance courses have a slightly lower drop rate than the Basic level, which I usually have at least 50% + or more. I agree with Vent, I have taught at different institutions from University to College and Technology Vo-Tech. It appears, that college students are used to the work requirement and have developed study habits, time management, as well as dealt and placed personal issues to the side for professional development. My usual drop out rate was about anywhere from 10% to 25% of advanced level students. Usually higher in the cardiac portion, where more intense and required studies occurred. 

What is surprising is they allowed someone with that type of lifestyle and obligations into the program. This part of the problem with some institutions, not making the program demands known. 

Like nursing school, my medic school was very demanding and I spent an average of two days a week at the medical school library researching, and doing thesis. Since I worked 10/24 monthly hour shifts, I can recall never going home for four weeks at one time. There are programs out there very demanding and this is why, it upsets many to see fly by the night programs, and why the title means more than just initials. 

Anything can be done with persistence and dedication, it is the degree of dedication and what sacrifices has to be made. That is why I don't agree with anyone describing they "cannot" go forward and go to medic school. 

I don't believe there is any reliable data to tell us the attribution rate, since courses are so fragmented in the U.S. and no real regulation is set in delivering one. 

R/r911


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## Onceamedic (Aug 22, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> What is surprising is they allowed someone with that type of lifestyle and obligations into the program. This part of the problem with some institutions, not making the program demands known. R/r911




She's on a volley squad in Hicksville and is "affiliated".  I had a 4.0 GPA, finished in the 85th percentile in the National Registries, am financially independent and have prepared for this mentally, physically and emotionally.  What I didn't do is affiliate; thus I waited for 1 1/2 years and fought my way into the class.   She got in right away.  When I questioned the policy of taking affiliated students over non-affiliated, they said that affiliated students are more likely to finish but had absolutely no stats to back it up.  I think its another remnant of the "old boys network"  but I may be paranoid.<_<


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## VentMedic (Aug 22, 2007)

There are no standards at this time in paramedic education to adequately track all the variables to give a fair set of statistics.  

The program I went through years ago was at a community college and you had to be sponsored by your EMS employer/affiliate after 1 year of employment/affiliation as an EMT, volley or otherwise.  That was pretty much the norm back then and we had a very good completion and exam pass rate. 

A few of the private tech schools may "pass" everyone through their program. However, the rate of passing the certifying exams may be much lower. 

If you are a good at academics, you may be able to take any class and pass. It may or may not make you a better provider.  However, through experience you can become a good provider. 

Many ambulance and FD agencies still provide their own inhouse paramedic training. It is difficult to track their statistics. 

Since there are so many different individual certifications in each state, it's hard to tell where the "paramedic" process actually started.

So whatever statistics there are, just about anything could be read into them.

What is interesting to track is how many are still working as a Paramedic 5 years after certification.  There have been some studies done there.


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## Arkymedic (Aug 22, 2007)

Kaisu said:


> I asked my paramedic instructor on Monday what the attrition rate for the course was.  I wanted to know how many of the shiny faces sitting in the chairs statistically would be collecting the parchment.  He did not give me a percentage, but said "lately, we've been losing a lot for personal reasons".
> Today, a student dropped out. This woman has 4 kids, a deadbeat ex (divorced less than a year) and a full time job.  I'm not surprised that she has bailed but I'm a little upset about it.  3 days into the course and we've lost one.  I spent 1 1/2 years on the wait list and I hope they can put someone in the spot.
> 
> Does anyone know what the stats are ?  How many people do this ?



We started with about 20 and graduated 9 out of my class.


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## firecoins (Aug 22, 2007)

Ill let you know.  We start on 9/10.


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## KEVD18 (Aug 23, 2007)

we dropped one day one


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## nightstar22 (Aug 26, 2007)

i am an emt-iv, the schools paramedic instructor said he always starts his paramedic class off with these words: i want everyone to look to their left, now look to your right.. one of these people will not be sitting there by the end of class and the other will be divorced. our emt-iv class started out with 23 and ended with 9, the class before that started with 25 and ended up with 6.


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## RescueShirts.com (Aug 27, 2007)

Those numbers are CRAZY...

My paramedic program started with 28... and we maybe lost 3 over the course of the entire program.

Programs need to be focused on providing a quality education to qualified students.

Students need to know what the process entails... what preparation is expected/required... all in advance of signing up for the class.

On the flip side...

It seems that some programs try to make things way-too stressful... too fast paced... and seem to be "trying" to maintain a high dropout rate.


My program was very casual, fairly low stress... and much more of a "we are all in this together" type of attitude.


Too many programs nowadays seem to be high intensity... fast paced... as if there is some kind of rush.


I don't believe that you have to totally overwelm and rush your students to prepare them for the field. There will be plenty of time for stress during the field internship. People (in general) learn better in a more relaxed setting.


So... I guess what I am saying is that a high drop out rate is both the fault of the students not knowing what they are getting in to... AND the lack of selection/information/preparation... and/or poor training style of the school.


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