# Zoll tablet PCR blues



## ecampvet (Feb 27, 2011)

Has anyone slain the dragon that is the software for the Zoll tablet PCR?  I've been trying to learn it and it has pushed me to the edge with lost data, data will not enter, red-flagging fields that are entered properly, etc.  The lack of a true patient refusal is also an issue with this product.


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## DFW333 (Feb 27, 2011)

Zoll E-PCR has so many problems I dont know where to begin. Our service is in the process of looking for a new program to switch to.


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## thegreypilgrim (Feb 27, 2011)

Well, this is encouraging news. My service is in the process of adopting this program.


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## ecampvet (Feb 27, 2011)

*Thank You!!!!*

Thank you, I thought I was certainly going to lose my mind.  (and may stll yet).  Had a pt this morning, dob won't enter, pt weight red-flags although correct, changed pt. weight to 3000# just to see if it would take it (it did).  If it doesn't like your pt. weight change it by 10#, then change it back.  ALWAYS print a paper draft so you have the info when it eats your entire run.  We have already developed a new paper 'run sheet' to capture the info that you must have to fill out this disaster of what is nothing more than a way of getting field personnel to do your data entry for you.  Patient care be damned, I must type!!!
     Sorry, did paper run sheets for 13 years and they don't EVER crash.


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## Veneficus (Feb 27, 2011)

Zoll is a 4 letter word.

Nothing else needs said.


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## DFW333 (Feb 27, 2011)

Im not sure if it's specific to each agency or not, but in ours if you go to OBJECTIVE > TRAUMA > WEAPON TYPE you can select "Bazooka" Not really sure why that is in a list, while something more common such as a Morphine Allergy isnt.


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## Veneficus (Feb 27, 2011)

DFW333 said:


> Im not sure if it's specific to each agency or not, but in ours if you go to OBJECTIVE > TRAUMA > WEAPON TYPE you can select "Bazooka" Not really sure why that is in a list,




Are you sure it's not the troubleshooting guide and what you need to fix it?


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## ecampvet (Feb 27, 2011)

*prepare thyself!*

Grey Pilgrim, I have begun taking 650 mg baby aspirin BEFORE attempting to enter data with Zoll tablet PCR.  It helps with the tension headache and the feelings of helpless rage.  Hour after hour of misery will be yours!  Good luck and maybe it's not too late to switch to something else!


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## Meursault (Feb 27, 2011)

The "Scene>Patient Found" section is good for a laugh. "Hanging", "Mine", and "Across Hood" are all options, but it has nothing more specific than "Place of Recreation or Sport".
Also, "Hottub" is next to "In Bed". I caught myself just before documenting that we found the pt. in a jacuzzi in the ED.

My service recently upgraded the software. Time will tell if it improves it any.


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## DFW333 (Feb 27, 2011)

My favorite entry is "Failure To Thrive" under impressions.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 27, 2011)

DFW333 said:


> My favorite entry is "Failure To Thrive" under impressions.



Legitimate diagnosis in an infant.


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## DFW333 (Feb 27, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Legitimate diagnosis in an infant.



Yeah, but when applied to otherwise healthy adults living under bridges who call just to get a ride across town because the hospital they want to go to is in the neighborhood they want to be in, it seems rather insulting. Ive seen it used for that purpose actually, because, believe it or not, there are times when that rather exhaustive list of impressions doesnt fit the patient. Of course they could always put the pt on 2 LPM via NC and check the "O2 was administered" item.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 27, 2011)

Important to understand about Rescuenet is that it is NOT designed to be pulled out of the box and put on the truck. It is a massively customizable program that is designed to be "built" to the end user's specifications. This however, takes time and expertise. If the system using the software is not willing to put this into it, the it will be a disaster.

Every time you add or take away a closed call rule, intervention, facility, ect it changes how various parts of the program interact. These changes then have to be tested, and programming possibly rewritten. 

Another failure point is the server, if the user is not willing to pony up for servers powerful enough to handle the demand placed upon them, again, it will be a disaster. 

Time from purchase to implementation at our service was 6 months. In this time the team putting together the software was spending 40-50 hours a week on it. Our launch was not problem free, but it went a lit more smoothly than other launches I've been through. 

We have options that are relevant to our system (for instance no "bazooka", although it IS still in Texas trauma registry), the reports come from the server promptly and are correct and the average time to do a very thorough, complete report on an average call takes around 20 minutes to do. A more complicated report takes longer, but creates one of the most legally defensible reports I've ever seen. In summary, it's the best chart, paper or electronic I've ever used.

What it sounds like is your managers are not taking the time to hash the program out first. Which is a shame, because it really is a heck of a chart once the bugs are worked out.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 27, 2011)

DFW333 said:


> Yeah, but when applied to otherwise healthy adults living under bridges who call just to get a ride across town because the hospital they want to go to is in the neighborhood they want to be in, it seems rather insulting. Ive seen it used for that purpose actually, because, believe it or not, there are times when that rather exhaustive list of impressions doesnt fit the patient. Of course they could always put the pt on 2 LPM via NC and check the "O2 was administered" item.



That's an education problem (unlikely) or an attitude and discipline problem. If patients don't fit the impression criteria, new criteria can be added. Unfortunately most managers are reluctant to do this as the default list fits CMS criteria well.


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## shfd739 (Feb 27, 2011)

We used it for 6 months as a trial due to our region using it. The medics are split 50/50 on who likes it and who doesn't. There were problems some our fault some not. Now we are back using an in-house program and it's undecided if we will go back to epcr.


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## 46Young (Feb 27, 2011)

All of this so that we can do someone else's job. Every time we're toned out, we're looking at at least an hour out of the station, usually 1 1/2 to two hours usually. I used to be able to clear from the ED in 15-20 minutes usually when using paper. Now, it's 45 mins to an hour and a half if we run a cardiac call and/or use narcs. At least 15 minutes of that is the thing freezing up, having to be restarted, not printing, etc. If you multiply the extra OOS time at the ED times each unit, the Zoll Rescuenet v.5.1 (now 5.2) it's like having 2-3 of our units (we have 41 txp units) OOS for the whole shift every day.

Why do I have to enter, for every single pt, if they're pregnant, or if they had a cardiac arrest?

I've gotten to the point where I say eff it, and I skip the entire physical assessment, and just type it in the narrative; it's much quicker. I select "other" for meds and Hx as well, and just type them in. It's quicker than scrolling down for each med or type of Hx.

I feel sorry for the depts that force you to go available as soon as you get to the ED. It's no fun having several of these reports in various stages of completion waiting to be finished at 0100 hours, when you would otherwise have the chance to get a couple of hours of sleep.


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## medicdan (Feb 27, 2011)

Some of these problems are lack of customization, others are NEMSIS fields... I'm in the process of customizing and tweaking another software set, and often limited by the data gods.


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## ecampvet (Nov 29, 2011)

*No better than ever...*

If any of you get saddled with this poor excuse for a run sheet BEWARE!  You don't give patient care anymore, you do data entry for your billing company!


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## Brandon O (Nov 29, 2011)

Just a quick note that many of the things bothering you are not universal to the program itself. They're things your service has chosen to make you do because they want that data (perhaps a regional mandate, perhaps for them). Or it's a default, and they don't need it but haven't bothered to customize it out. It really does seem like the program is what you make of it -- it's just that making it really perfect takes a massive commitment, and most IT folks stop somewhere short of that.


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## EMSrush (Nov 29, 2011)

I use the Zoll ePCR and don't have much in the way of complaints, other than the occasional bug. For example, if you put an unsuccessful IV attempt in interventions, it will still require you to put in your tubing size and amount of fluid given. These things can be remedied pretty quickly by our agency's computer guy. I believe that the software does require some tweaking before it can be used. Contact your agency's tech guy and let he/she know about the mandatory X's and other issues that are popping up so that your software can be adjusted and make things easier on you. It will save save you money on Tylenol, too.

Having said that, I miss paper PCR's too.


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## medic417 (Nov 29, 2011)

ecampvet said:


> If any of you get saddled with this poor excuse for a run sheet BEWARE!  You don't give patient care anymore, you do data entry for your billing company!



It's truly an elite product.  :rofl:  Maybe one day they will get a more user friendly program for you guy's.


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## Farmer2DO (Nov 29, 2011)

And why shouldn't we be doing data entry?  If it can be done at the same time, what's the problem?  Good data entry means quicker billing, which is how many of our jobs are justified.

I switched from EMS Charts to Zoll Charting.  OMG.  Best thing we ever did.  Our chart lock times dropped.  You can zip throug most charts in under half an hour.  Like usalsfyre said, it's very important to have people willing to put time, effort and money into running it.  I think it's a great program.


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## medic417 (Nov 29, 2011)

Farmer2DO said:


> And why shouldn't we be doing data entry?  If it can be done at the same time, what's the problem?  Good data entry means quicker billing, which is how many of our jobs are justified.
> 
> I switched from EMS Charts to Zoll Charting.  OMG.  Best thing we ever did.  Our chart lock times dropped.  You can zip throug most charts in under half an hour.  Like usalsfyre said, it's very important to have people willing to put time, effort and money into running it.  I think it's a great program.



See you chastise but then you state a problem with the system.  Many services do not spend the money or time to set it up so that it is user friendly.  Having worked with numerous systems I have to say that it is the least user friendly I have seen even when it has been customized.  

We all understand that our reports whether paperwork or computer determine how much can be collected from those that will pay or that qualify for reimbursement from insurance.


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## Joe (Nov 29, 2011)

The only epcr I've dealt with is eMeds or Meds (can't really remember) once you get the flow if it it becomes pretty easy to get a run inputed before you clear the er. Never used the zoll but I haven't had luck with any of the other stuff they make


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## exodus (Nov 29, 2011)

Short transports I always make a paper PCR with assessment and treatment info. Though the only thing that usually changes on 5150's is med list, allergies, and pmh...  But this way if we get another call right away, I can finish it later no issues.


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