# Reciprocity help please!



## njb242 (Jun 7, 2012)

Hey all, first post here! I'm a recently certified basic in NY currently residing in NJ coming to face with the issue of reciprocity. I know NJ used to accept states in the Atlantic council (including PA) no questions asked up until recently; the current reciprocity form makes no mention of this. What confuses me about the process in NJ is  the "exemptions" part of the above doc. It reads, "Reciprocity applicants validly certified/licensed as an “EMT” (2009  National Educational 
Standards) from any state/US territory and/or the NREMT will be permitted to obtain a New Jersey 
EMT certification without having to complete the refresher course or the state written examination".  What does this mean? Do either PA or NY have reciprocity to NJ without the refresher, or is it now mandated? 
Thanks!
PS: if someone could please post the above quoted link to help clarify things, it would be greatly appreciated.


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## Epi-do (Jun 7, 2012)

The way I read that, if you are certified anywhere else, NJ will grant you reciprocity without testing or taking a refresher course.  

However, do not rely upon my interpretation, or anyone elses.  Call the certifying agency in NJ and ask them any questions you may have.  They are the ones with the correct answer to your question.


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## Jon (Jun 11, 2012)

My understanding is that things haven't changed. Supposedly any EMT within the Atlantic Council is able to play EMT in NJ with NO RECIPROCITY WHATSOEVER.

I do BLS work in NJ with a PA EMT-B. Neither of us has a Jersey cert.

Jersey is weird. (and smells funny).


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## njb242 (Jun 12, 2012)

On the phone I was told i had to go through the application process and take the test, that was the source of my confusion because the application seems to not require current emt's to test. I guess once I get on a rescue company in jersey,  they can help me figure it out. I can't do anything until i receive my emt card anyway, who knows how long that will take.


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## bstone (Jun 12, 2012)

Mid-Atlantic EMS Council. Do they have a website? A google search doesn't bring up anything obvious other than references to them. What do people know about them?


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## Jon (Jun 13, 2012)

bstone said:


> Mid-Atlantic EMS Council. Do they have a website? A google search doesn't bring up anything obvious other than references to them. What do people know about them?



It is a term used in a few places online to refer to NY, NJ, PA, DE and a few others that decided to agree that everyone's EMT was pretty much the same as everyone elses. Not sure the organization really even exists, as such.


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## Workingonit (Jun 14, 2012)

*NYS EMT certification good as gold in NJ - at face value*

Short answer: *A NYS EMT certificate is recognized on its face in NJ. NJ state health department rules and regulations allow a NYS certified EMT to ride any NJ BLS ambulance anywhere in NJ - paid or volunteer. At this time, you do not need to apply for NJ EMT reciprocity. * 

Long answer: I am a current NYS EMT and live in NJ. From January until March 2012, I successfully completed a NYS EMT refresher course in NYC. I met a fellow NYS EMT student in my class who lives and works in NJ. She is a NYS EMT and works for a paid NJ ambulance service. It surprised me to learn that - on its face - a NYS EMT certificate is valid for working (paid or volunteer ambulance) in NJ. Don't ask me why, but this is the situation. It doesn't work the other way around, however. A NJ EMT certificate - on its face - is not recognized in NYS (including NYC). It is not fair or logical, but to use the famous expression - "it is what it is". I suppose it is easier in Northern or Southern NJ (near NYC and Philadelphia) for paid ambulance services to find additional employees who might have NYS or Pa. EMT certifications. I expected that this would naturally be annoying to NJ people, including NJ EMT and other volunteer first aiders. I was right. I know it must irritate the state health bureaucrats, too. After many calls, emails and diligence, I found out the facts. The NJ state government doesn't like it because they don't have a strong legal "hook" into a NY EMT working in NJ on an ambulance. Supposedly, it is difficult for NJ state government to investigate a NYS EMT, discipline, supervise, etc. However, frustration aside, the NJ state government *does* recognize a NYS EMT riding on a NJ ambulance. I really do understand the irritation that other NJ EMS people must feel. However, a NYS EMT doesn't need to pursue NJ EMT reciprocity at this time. There is _rumor_ and maybe wishful thinking that this may all change in February 2013, but it is just a rumor. I totally agree with you -the NJ state health department bureacracy information on EMT reciprocity on the website is very confusing, too. *The short answer to your question on the "2009 DOT standards" - right from the NYS DOH EMS Bureau in Albany - is that current NYS EMT programs won't meet that quoted "2009 national DOT standard" until December 2012. So, at this time (June 2012), if you want to hold an actual NJ EMT certificate, as a certified NYS EMT, you must follow the long and tedious NJ EMT reciprocity process, including taking a NJ EMT refresher course (passing the practical testing) - formerly called "CORE 13", plus take and pass a written NJ EMT examination.* By the way, there are quite a few NJ refresher courses offered throughout NJ, but I am having a hard time fitting the exact dates into my schedule. The NJ EMT refresher course cost about $200-$450, depending on the education source. If you work for a NJ paid ambulance service or NJ volunteer first aid squad, the NJ course fee will be waived for you to personally pay and paid for by NJ upon approval of your NJ paid ambulance service or NJ volunteer first aid squad. Know doubt you know that you will get lots of "push-back" from many people in NJ about the validity of your NYS EMT in New Jersey. Most volunteer first aid squads are unaware of this unusual NJ state health department rule and they will doubt you. Fine - give them the sources, have them call NJ state health department and verify it for themselves. I have respectfully argued with many volunteer first aid squad people about this odd rule and had to explain it to some paid ambulance service owners, too. To keep the peace, under strong peer pressure and under protest, I am now seeking NJ EMT reciprocity. The NJ EMT process is a major pain in the neck in NJ! First, you need to send a NYS Department of Health form requesting certificate verification to be sent to NJ. Note: this request requires presence before a Notary Public. You also have to send the state NJ EMT reciprocity application and other NJ state health department forms to NYS with the "notarized" NYS DOH verification form. Next, you need to go to the NJ state website and "register" for a new NJ EMT certification. Next, after receiving your NYS EMT state verification, you need to send this package(along with copies of your current NYS EMT and CPR/BLS/AED Professional certificates to NJ and wait for approval. Upon approval, you need to find, register and take a 24-hour NJ EMT Refresher course (which, by-the-way, includes a practical, skills examination - this is not widely known or discussed either in most places). Upon passing this NJ EMT Refresher course, you need to find and successfully pass a NJ EMT written examination. Upon getting your 70 percent, you will finally receive your NJ EMT reciprocity certification - which you don't need in the first place - if you are a NYS EMT! If the rules change in NJ, you WILL need to get the NJ EMT certificate. (There was a major NJ EMS bill proposed, but it was rejected by NJ Governor Chris C.) If you want to wear the NJ EMT shoulder patch, you need to get the NJ EMT certificate. (A possible solution to this issue is go on the internet and just buy a shoulder patch that just reads "emergency medical technician" or "EMT" with a blue star-of-life emblem). If you want to keep most of the NJ local people off your back (especially the volunteer first aid squad folks), you might decide to voluntarily get the NJ EMT certificate. Amazingly, for a NJ EMT to get reciprocity as a NYS EMT (or a Pennsylvania EMT), the process is simple and easy! A NJ EMT simply needs to file the necessary state forms and current EMT and CPR certificates for NYS or Pennsylvania; however, a NJ EMT does not have to take any NYS or Pa. EMT courses - not even a refresher, nor take and pass any practical or written NYS or Pa. EMT testing! I went through a lot of personal research on this for myself. I also found a lot of misinformation out there, too, both on the web and from the mouths of blow hards. Accordingly, I wanted to take the time and effort to put all of this factual and accurate information on the web for you and other people to see. At the end of the day, the scope of practice between a NJ and a NY EMT is virtually the same. We use the same national AAOS or Brady EMT textbooks. First aid is first aid. Unless we start talking about being a paramedic, an EMT in NJ can do pretty much whatever an EMT in NY can do and vice-versa. I hope this helps you and many others! Best wishes.        




njb242 said:


> Hey all, first post here! I'm a recently certified basic in NY currently residing in NJ coming to face with the issue of reciprocity. I know NJ used to accept states in the Atlantic coun
> cil (including PA) no questions asked up until recently; the current reciprocity form makes no mention of this. What confuses me about the process in NJ is  the "exemptions" part of the above doc. It reads, "Reciprocity applicants validly certified/licensed as an “EMT” (2009  National Educational
> Standards) from any state/US territory and/or the NREMT will be permitted to obtain a New Jersey
> EMT certification without having to complete the refresher course or the state written examination".  What does this mean? Do either PA or NY have reciprocity to NJ without the refresher, or is it now mandated?
> ...


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## njb242 (Jun 14, 2012)

Wow! Thank you for being the guinea pig. Very useful information!

P.S. any way for me to edit the title of this thread for easy searching? It seems I can only edit recent posts.


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## DrParasite (Jun 14, 2012)

pretty much what was stated above.

an NY or PA EMT can work in NJ, however some agencies can  (and I work for one that does) requires you to become an NJ EMT within 6 months.

If you want to go to NY from NJ, you fill out a form, and they fill out a form and give you a NY card.  you can't be an EMT in NY without a NYS card.  the flip side to this is, if you want to maintain your NY EMT card, you will need to complete the recert process, just like everyone else.  you can't just file paperwork like you did the first time.

if you have any questions, just call the DOH 609-633-7777 for an official answer.


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## Workingonit (Jun 16, 2012)

Glad it helped you! I do not know how to perform the edit function you mentioned...


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## bikemedic (Jun 27, 2012)

(2009 National Educational
Standards


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