# starting an ambulance company?



## DV_EMT (May 5, 2009)

hey all,
so I talked to a few of y'all tonight on the chat about potentially starting an ambulance company. now note that this is just a concept, I just want to get some suggestion and feedback. pro's/con's... competitors, liability, contracting, etc... 

of course, its just start small and get bigger, but what do you all suggest?


PS: this post brought to you by a cell phone viewing emtlife in the parking lot of In and Out burgers


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## reaper (May 5, 2009)

My adice is work in the field for a while, so you get some sense of what is involved. Then find someone that has a full understanding of how it works, to be your partner. It is not as easy as most think it is and can bankrupt you in a heartbeat. You need to have a lot of capital to survive on, until payments start rolling in. (This could be months) There is a lot more that needs a full understanding of it. Not something you can learn on a forum!


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## eynonqrs (May 5, 2009)

I wish you luck.  It takes 5 years for a small business to turn any kind of profit. Also, take into account how many other services are in the area.  The transport aspect of the ambulance service can turn in a great deal of money, however to get contracts with hospitals or nursing homes, it takes good PR, and also to prove that you will be able to provide the resources as requested. You will need to have a good business plan and do research so you can get a good start.


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## daedalus (May 5, 2009)

DV_EMT said:


> hey all,
> so I talked to a few of y'all tonight on the chat about potentially starting an ambulance company. now note that this is just a concept, I just want to get some suggestion and feedback. pro's/con's... competitors, liability, contracting, etc...
> 
> of course, its just start small and get bigger, but what do you all suggest?
> ...



I am no small business expert, but I can tell you that it is not going to happen in Santa Barbara or Ventura. LA or Orange, maybe. There are upwards of 120 private ambulance providers out here in the greater LA area. Almost all of them do discharges and renal roundup. A select few (probably 5 to 10) do real IFTs (hospital to hospital).


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## CAOX3 (May 5, 2009)

In this economy?

I would suggest agianst it.

If you are going to give it a shot, I would suggest getting your hands on as many dialysis patients you can.  This is where the cash is.  Guarenteed money three times a week.


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 5, 2009)

While Health Care is one business that will always be in demand, I think that a lot more research into such a venture is needed before anyone jumps into what sound like a whim.

If anyone is familiar with Priority One out in California:  They did it and did it right.  The owner/starter is a Paramedic who focused on IFTs in a lot of areas (which is the financial backbone for most ambulance providers) and 911 calls is only some areas; and now they are a larger compnay with contracts throughout California.  It took a lot of work to make the company profitable and from what I hear throuogh people who know him, it burned him out QUICK.

On the flipside, I know of two companies locally (in my area) that started out the same (Mom and Pop Ops), but never really gre past 1-2 rigs on duty at one time.  The reason was mostly compatition and therefore a lack of profit ot turn around and grow bigger.  (They were two of 5 companies serving a county of 45,000ish!)  From what I hear they were great to work for, but when the county decided that they need to choose between the various companies, they both lost out to a large one.  they tried to focuse on the other areas they had branched out into (CCT for one & Motocross Standbys for another), but after 6-12 months of that they both had to close.

In short, it ain't easy, especially for a newbie EMT to get such a venture started and profitable.  Like others said, get some real life experience first, and then in 2015 rethink it.  If you are convinced to give this a go...  GOOD LUCK!


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## lightsandsirens5 (May 5, 2009)

DV_EMT said:


> hey all,
> so I talked to a few of y'all tonight on the chat about potentially starting an ambulance company. now note that this is just a concept, I just want to get some suggestion and feedback. pro's/con's... competitors, liability, contracting, etc...
> 
> of course, its just start small and get bigger, but what do you all suggest?



Starting your *own*?????????? What kind of money do you have? (and where did you get it?)



> PS: this post brought to you by a cell phone viewing emtlife in the parking lot of In and Out burgers



Sheesh! Do you have to rub it in? (I lived in SD for 5 years not too long ago. In 'n' out is _the_ burger place............................)


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## JPINFV (May 5, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Sheesh! Do you have to rub it in? (I lived in SD for 5 years not too long ago. In 'n' out is _the_ burger place............................)



That, and the weather, are two of the bright points about going to school in Pomona. In-N-Out is awesome.


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## daedalus (May 5, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> While Health Care is one business that will always be in demand, I think that a lot more research into such a venture is needed before anyone jumps into what sound like a whim.
> 
> If anyone is familiar with Priority One out in California:  They did it and did it right.  The owner/starter is a Paramedic who focused on IFTs in a lot of areas (which is the financial backbone for most ambulance providers) and 911 calls is only some areas; and now they are a larger compnay with contracts throughout California.  It took a lot of work to make the company profitable and from what I hear throuogh people who know him, it burned him out QUICK.
> 
> ...


Priority One Medical Transport is one of the single worst examples of a Ambulance service you can pull. They hire anyone who walks through their doors with a "pulse and a cert" mentality. Their rigs are commonly 400,000 + miles and their employees are forced to drive units with faulty mechanics, or lose their job. Supplies on the units are expired and old, and none of ambulances has the complete list of required supplies per CHP standards. They have lost every single 911 contract or potential 911 contract they have ever had. In everything that they do, Priority One encourages EMS in California to stay exactly where it is while they commit highway robbery against medicare and medical. 

Trust me, a poor example.


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 5, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Priority One Medical Transport is one of the single worst examples of a Ambulance service you can pull. They hire anyone who walks through their doors with a "pulse and a cert" mentality. Their rigs are commonly 400,000 + miles and their employees are forced to drive units with faulty mechanics, or lose their job. Supplies on the units are expired and old, and none of ambulances has the complete list of required supplies per CHP standards. They have lost every single 911 contract or potential 911 contract they have ever had. In everything that they do, Priority One encourages EMS in California to stay exactly where it is while they commit highway robbery against medicare and medical.
> 
> Trust me, I used to work there.



Good to know.  Never had much experience with them, beyond working the same turf as them.  Come to think of it, I have never heard anything good about them, but random bites of bad.  I was offered a job their once, but went with AMR.  But my point, leaveing aside their sub-standardness, is that they survived as a company, an expample of how a start-up ambulacne company can make it (from a business standpoint), however they had to skimp on the whole "quality" EMS thing...  ^_^  But your point reenforces the fact that it is hard for a new ambulance company to be both finacially stable and a good EMS agency.

In hindsight, I am glad I didn't join them, but not glad that I choose AMR over them.  Lesser of two evils I suppose.  Live an learn...


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## daedalus (May 5, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Good to know.  Never had much experience with them, beyond working the same turf as them.  Come to think of it, I have never heard anything good about them, but random bites of bad.  I was offered a job their once, but went with AMR.  But my point, leaveing aside their sub-standardness, is that they survived as a company, an expample of how a start-up ambulacne company can make it (from a business standpoint), however they had to skimp on the whole "quality" EMS thing...  ^_^  But your point reenforces the fact that it is hard for a new ambulance company to be both finacially stable and a good EMS agency.
> 
> In hindsight, I am glad I didn't join them, but not glad that I choose AMR over them.  Lesser of two evils I suppose.  Live an learn...



AMR is a far better organization than P-1. Priority One did survive economically, but if you want to measure their successes, that is the only one. I suppose you were going to be hired with the Norcal division?


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 5, 2009)

daedalus said:


> AMR is a far better organization than P-1. Priority One did survive economically, but if you want to measure their successes, that is the only one. I suppose you were going to be hired with the Norcal division?



Yep, Nor (Central) Cal.  But, since AMR was a larger (national) company, I went with them.  Their hiring was also a little tougher; P1 was a "interview, photocopy serts deal.  I just remembered this one:  Partner of mine at AMR also "interviewed" with P1 and quit befored being hired.  he had an interview at 1100 hours, gets there and walks into the correct room, only to find 6 people in a class room setting listening to the owener giving a "new hire" presentation.  When he walks in the owner stops the class looks at my partner and say, "just sit down.  We'll talk latter!"  My partner endured another hour of class and then the owner pulls him aside and says, "We are not gonna fire you for showing up late, but this will go in your file."  My partner tried to explain that he was told to INTERVIEW at 1100.  But apparently he had been hired pre-interview based solely on a application!  The owner said that it didn't matter, ity would be in his employee file.  My partner was shocked at teh way the whole thing was managed, said "no thanks", and walked out only to be hired by AMR 3 months latter.

So, DV, these are reasons to do serious research into this idea and spend a lot of time in the field before trying to take the Trust Fund (is that where we got the cash from?) and start an Ambulance company.  These are examples of how not to run an ambulance company, things that you should experience first hand so that it is understood how to do it right, both finacially and ethiclly.  Money is good; making money and running a great business that is a great testimonial to what EMS should be... priceless.


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## lightsandsirens5 (May 5, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> That, and the weather, are two of the bright points about going to school in Pomona. In-N-Out is awesome.



AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! You too?!?!?!


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## JPINFV (May 5, 2009)

Me too what? Going to school in Pomona?


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## DV_EMT (May 5, 2009)

trust fund? 

im not sure to take that as a joke or an insult :glare:.... either way, no, its not cash that I have gotten from a trust fund. 

just thinking ahead... thats all


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## lightsandsirens5 (May 6, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Me too what? Going to school in Pomona?



No you too in CAL eating at In and Out!


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## JPINFV (May 6, 2009)

There's only two types of people in California. People who don't like In-N-Out and normal people.


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 6, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> There's only two types of people in California. People who don't like In-N-Out and normal people.



I guess I ain't normal...  But I've seen what passes for normal in society and I'n okay with being abnormal...    Carl' Jr Double Bacon Western Cheeseburger!!!  2 Angus Patties, Cheese, Bacon, Onion Rings, all smothered in BBQ Sacue...  only ~1500 calories!

Now, DV, if you want to start a business... open a Carl's Jr first, contribute to the ever increasing American Waistline, and then open an Ambulance Company with contracts with all the Fast Food Joints!  ^_^


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## exodus (May 6, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Priority One Medical Transport is one of the single worst examples of a Ambulance service you can pull. They hire anyone who walks through their doors with a "pulse and a cert" mentality. Their rigs are commonly 400,000 + miles and their employees are forced to drive units with faulty mechanics, or lose their job. Supplies on the units are expired and old, and none of ambulances has the complete list of required supplies per CHP standards. They have lost every single 911 contract or potential 911 contract they have ever had. In everything that they do, Priority One encourages EMS in California to stay exactly where it is while they commit highway robbery against medicare and medical.
> 
> Trust me, a poor example.



Priority One = Pacific/Bowers Rejects  

Look at pacific as an example, the presidents of the company are active and still do runs with crews to see how things are going. They started out of an apartment with ONE ambulance.


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## JPINFV (May 6, 2009)

Oh, we're playing this game? Pacific=Lynch rejects. B)


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## Sapphyre (May 6, 2009)

heh heh heh, Priority one, Pacific, Lynch, Mission, Americare, Care, Cole Shaffer = AMR rejects       (I COULDA kept going)


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## JPINFV (May 6, 2009)

Only AMR rejects because So. Cal. rejects AMR.

http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_25343.shtml


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## VFFforpeople (May 6, 2009)

Well two options for ya boss man. take a semester of light business courses at the college, get an idea, outline it. Then pitch it to possiable partners, also line up your expenses. Think you will burn IVs,O2,Kerlix, all things that can come off as meh inexpensive compared to the Drugs and ect on board, but your burn through them faster. Then keeping your employees in uniforms,proper equipment,newer equipment, making sure it is kept in top shape,ect. I mean I could go on for days. Also look to a smaller community to start up at. As stated prior SB is big. Unlike my area we have 2main stream companies. Mercy and then AMR..with PHI running air transports.

Now for option two. Start it up as a failed plan already, then hire me for 1million dollars, then call for a bailout (because we all need EMS) get your huge bail out check, rename your company and start all over again. LOL!!


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## Sapphyre (May 6, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Only AMR rejects because So. Cal. rejects AMR.
> 
> http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_25343.shtml



Awwwww, ruin my fun.


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