# EMT killed while helping crash victim



## Chimera911 (Dec 19, 2005)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/baycitynews/a/2005/12/18/crash18.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 19, 2005)

Not good...but looks like it was unavoidable, as we all see how people forget how to drive in inclement weather every day.  I hope that this reminds everyone to take proper safety precautions when assisting people off duty, i.e., use your flashers, wear reflective gear if you have it, and try to protect the accident scene with your vehicle...and always be cautious when using flares.


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## 40sCutest (Dec 19, 2005)

That is so awful!!

I always think about things like that happening when I stop to help with car crashes before the local EMS get there. The other thing I worry about is violent patients...


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 19, 2005)

If you do stop and people start to get violent, get and your car and retreat...remember scene safety- you first, your partner second, and everyone else last!


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## Chimera911 (Dec 19, 2005)

40sCutest said:
			
		

> That is so awful!!
> 
> I always think about things like that happening when I stop to help with car crashes before the local EMS get there. The other thing I worry about is violent patients...



Definitely.  
I've handled the TxP of edp's before... I was fortunate never to come across one that wanted to act out violently.  I can only pray that when I return to service that I'll continue to have such luck.


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 19, 2005)

I have been on the short end of the stick, unfortunately, several times...the best way to deal with a violent pt is to get 4 or 5 people in a cirlce around them, and if they need restrained go at them all at once...they become disoriented and are unalbe to fend of 5 people...allowing you to restrain them with "the minimal force nessecary to prevent injury to yourself or others" and treat them appropriately. Also, for ALS providers, most ER doc's are will to provide "chemical" restraints, ie valium, ativan, versed, etc.... most air medical programs automatically RSI anyone who might even remotely become combative or violent as a precaution to the aircraft.  So. after my longwindedness, all I am saying is that eventually you will have to deal with a violent person, just try to be as prepared as possible.


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## VinBin (Dec 19, 2005)

"Though it was determined Jackson had been drinking alcohol, the CHP reported that he was not under the influence at the time of the crash."

 right...it had nothing to do with it...


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## 40sCutest (Dec 19, 2005)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> get 4 or 5 people in a cirlce around them.


 
Usually if I'm on a call w/ a violent pt we can restrain them without to much trouble, I was just thinking about being on my own and trying to assess a pt. before other providers were there, assuming that you came upon the scene of an accident for incident.


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 19, 2005)

If I am alone on a call I always leave myself an out- a window, a door, or some other object to put between me and the violent person.


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## Chimera911 (Dec 19, 2005)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> So. after my longwindedness, all I am saying is that eventually you will have to deal with a violent person, just try to be as prepared as possible.



That definitely goes without saying.


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes, and since I am a magnet for bad calls, it happens to me more than my fair share of the time...I must have a crazy person attractor beam or something...


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 19, 2005)

Thats a shame to loose one of our people, and for the drunk to get away with it is even worse.

I have heard some really bad stories about violent pts, knock on wood I havent had any real bad ones yet.


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## Chimera911 (Dec 19, 2005)

Carpe Diem said:
			
		

> Thats a shame to loose one of our people, and for the drunk to get away with it is even worse.
> 
> I have heard some really bad stories about violent pts, knock on wood I havent had any real bad ones yet.


I really have *NO RESPECT* for people who drink and drive; I don't care how functional they believe themselves to be.  I've ended friendships over it.  I'm pretty damn sure I'm not alone on this either.


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 20, 2005)

Oh Im right behind you on that one. That is wreckless and totally avoidable, I think if you kill someone it should be premeditated murder.


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 20, 2005)

Well we cant charge then with premeditated murder(Murder 1) because leagally if you are intoxicated you cannot form the requisit intent, howver WE can chrage then with depraved indifference homicide(Murder 2) and let them sit in a cell for 20 to life vs. the death penalty.


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 20, 2005)

That sounds good to me. Manslaughter is just not tough enough.:thumbs_down:


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## coloradoemt (Dec 20, 2005)

Alcohol or not people do not drive as a general rule with any regard for others. Just last night on a hot return,  working a core, I had 2 cars pass me on an on ramp to the interstate. I guess in my attempt to keep the medics on their feet I was going to slow for them. My partner and I have been flipped off, honked at and then flipped off, for blocking a lane at an MVA. How dare we slow those in a hurry down...  And lets not forget the idiots who drive with their eyes locked in to the pavement 2 feet in front of their car...


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## Jon (Dec 20, 2005)

Just because the guy had a drink or two doesen't mean he was drunk. He passed a feild sobriety test, I would assume for CHP to say he wasn't drunk.

It also SOUNDS LIKE he was trying to slow down and aproach with caution instead of bombing by at 80mph.

The guy will have to live with this for the rest of his life.... isn't that enough punishment?


Jon


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## Chimera911 (Dec 20, 2005)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Just because the guy had a drink or two doesen't mean he was drunk. He passed a feild sobriety test, I would assume for CHP to say he wasn't drunk.
> 
> It also SOUNDS LIKE he was trying to slow down and aproach with caution instead of bombing by at 80mph.
> 
> ...


He won't be the only one living with it for the rest of his life.  So will the tech's family and friends (if he has any).


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 20, 2005)

Bottom line is that its just not smart to drink and drive, those drinks might have made the difference between allowing our brother to live and ending his life. He had to have quite a bit of alcohol in his system for it to even have come up in the investigation. Though its true he has the rest of his life to think about it, the EMT dosent. Then also you are right Jon, the man was not charged with it after being tested, and we dont know all the details, we never do. I do know it is a pretty sore subject for several reasons though.


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## emtd29 (Jan 4, 2006)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> Not good...but looks like it was unavoidable, as we all see how people forget how to drive in inclement weather every day. I hope that this reminds everyone to take proper safety precautions when assisting people off duty, i.e., use your flashers, wear reflective gear if you have it, and try to protect the accident scene with your vehicle...and always be cautious when using flares.


Another sad story. You're right. not good, but definitely avoidable.


people do forget how to drive in bad weather. Bad weather brings out the worst in already bad drivers. maybe if the guy was driving with due regard to conditions in the first place instead of barreling along at highway speed ( wet roads = slow down), this could have been avoided. Speed kills.

No accident is non-avoidable in my book. (OK, almost no accident, there is the occasional deer that's just gotta get stupid. It's in their nature )

Oh, and drinking and driving??? you must be totally insane if you think I'm going to have ANY sympathy for you if you do and get into an accident as a result ( although you will be treated like any other pt in the back of my truck) or get caught. I'd rather you get caught though, honestly, before something bad does happen. 


And I cannot stress this enough:

remember scene safety!!!!  ALWAYS be aware of your surroundings!

Take necessary precautions as appropriate.


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## FFEMT1764 (Jan 4, 2006)

Yepper...and remember we have those orange and yellow refelctive vests for a reason...they either make people dodge us or they make us targets!


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## emtd29 (Jan 4, 2006)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> Yepper...and remember we have those orange and yellow refelctive vests for a reason...they either make people dodge us or they make us targets!



I absolutely agree


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## FFEMT1764 (Jan 5, 2006)

Of course it could be worse, we could wear a vest thats says sheriff or police...we would be targets for sure!


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## Chimera911 (Jan 5, 2006)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> Yepper...and remember we have those orange and yellow refelctive vests for a reason...they either make people dodge us or they make us targets!


LOL now _there's_ a cheery thought.


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## FFEMT1764 (Jan 5, 2006)

Chimera911 said:
			
		

> LOL now _there's_ a cheery thought.


 
I always try to bring joy and happiness to my fellow EMS providers! Even if it involves my sick and twisted sense of humor:wacko:


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## Chimera911 (Jan 6, 2006)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> I always try to bring joy and happiness to my fellow EMS providers! Even if it involves my sick and twisted sense of humor:wacko:


Sick and twisted, sounds and feels like home. B)


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## FFEMT1764 (Jan 6, 2006)

Just like sweet tea and apple pie!


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## Chimera911 (Jan 7, 2006)

FFEMT1764 said:
			
		

> Just like sweet tea and apple pie!


Mmmm sweet tea.  :wub:


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## Jon (Jan 8, 2006)

Sweet tea, and sausage gravy on biscuts.... All we were fed for breakfast down south.... Maybe I'll look at Biscuts and gravy in another year or two..... and sweet tea is too sweet.


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## FFEMT1764 (Jan 8, 2006)

If I dont get my sweet tea my BGL drops and I get cranky!


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## Carpe Diem (Jan 9, 2006)

mmmmm.....sweet tea "picture Homer Simpson thinking about beer"


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## Chimera911 (Jan 10, 2006)

Carpe Diem said:
			
		

> mmmmm.....sweet tea "picture Homer Simpson thinking about beer"


Yeah, seriously though.  ^_^


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## FFEMT1764 (Jan 10, 2006)

MMM...donuts...mmmm   since we are on the homer simpson angle


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## CaptainPanic (Jan 11, 2006)

All I drink anymore is coffee and unsweetened tea, yeah Im that boring...


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## Chimera911 (Jan 11, 2006)

CaptainPanic said:
			
		

> All I drink anymore is coffee and unsweetened tea, yeah Im that boring...


I would never knock coffee.  Ever.


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## Wingnut (Jan 12, 2006)

Coffee rocks B)


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## MedicPrincess (Jan 12, 2006)

Hmmm....Coffee...

It's #1 on the top ten list of most dangerous foods to consume while driving.

Others include carbonated sodas, tacos, chili, juicy hamburgers, hot soup, fried chicken, any BBQ food, chocolate, and jelly/creme filled doughnuts.

So keep that in mind next time you want to have coffee while eating your big fat jelly filled doughnut....


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## CaptainPanic (Jan 12, 2006)

I dont eat doughnuts so...


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