# Iowa State university paramedic program



## Remeber343 (Jul 4, 2012)

Hello everyone, I just have a quick question. One of my buddies came up to me and asked what I thought of ISUs paramedic program, I really didn't know what to tell him. I know a few people that have gone through their medic program and have been picked up quite quickly by FDs and such.  I told him how they run it with 15 weeks, 8-5 didactic then move into clinicals and ride times. That's really all I know. 

I was wondering if anyone here has gone through their schooling and what your thoughts were on this?  I asked one of my buddies that graduated from their if I could pass his number along, just waiting to hear back from him and figured I would poke your brains about it.  I couldn't find anything with the search feature. Anyways, thanks in advance!


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## BandageBrigade (Jul 5, 2012)

You mean University of Iowa. ISU does not have a medic program.


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## Maine iac (Jul 5, 2012)

Awesome program.

Fantastic hospital where you receive your training (only level 1 for hundreds of miles), fantastic instructors (many specialty instructors come in and give lectures), you get to ride in a heli. Very high first time pass rates of the NREMT (ask them- they know all their numbers).

I recommend it to anybody and everybody.

(The UIHC's program) No idea about ISU- didn't think they had one.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 5, 2012)

It is awesome compared to what?

It is only  1,160-hours which includes 260 hours of hospital clinical time and  of 360 hours of field time. 

The only entrance requirements up to now has been a high school diploma and EMT cert. 

They are just now requiring an Anatomy and Physiology class which may be done entirely online with no lab and can be a pass/fail type. Previously it was only recommended but not required.

The guy on the website as the model for the program is clearly over weight.

Essentially this is the same style and price tag (almost $10,000) of the 8 month program that UCLA has.


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## Remeber343 (Jul 5, 2012)

Ah yes - i meant university of Iowa. Sorry if there was any confusion.


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## bigbaldguy (Jul 5, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> The guy on the website as the model for the program is clearly over weight.



I'm sorry what does this have to do with the quality of any program? Think carefully before answering please.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 5, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> I'm sorry what does this have to do with the quality of any program? Think carefully before answering please.



Physical fitness should be emphasized for the job and should include having a decent body weight proportionate to height.  Promoting obesity or lax standards should also be thought through carefully.


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## Remeber343 (Jul 5, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> Physical fitness should be emphasized for the job and should include having a decent body weight proportionate to height.  Promoting obesity or lax standards should also be thought through carefully.



And what if this gentlemen was able to pass the cpat and perform duties just fine?  Passing judgment based on a picture is retarded.


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## VFlutter (Jul 5, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> I'm sorry what does this have to do with the quality of any program? Think carefully before answering please.



Becuase fat people are slow and would be the first to die during a Zombie apocalypse. Therefore the quality of the program is obviously horrible.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 5, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Becuase fat people are slow and would be the first to die during a Zombie apocalypse. Therefore the quality of the program is obviously horrible.



I wouldn't exactly use the Zombie thing as an example. Many of the LODDs among EMS personnel are from heart attacks and strokes. Looking at their photos, some are what might be considered to be even morbidly obese. There is a direct correlation between obesity and cardiovascular diseases. Couple that with stress and a physically demanding job, you have a higher risk. When a young person is obese going into the profession, the chances of them changing their lifestyle are even less once they feel they are secure in employment. Instead of promoting that as the image just to make those who are overweight feel better, it is time to promote the physicial fitness requirement which is about as overlooked as the education.


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## epipusher (Jul 5, 2012)

Excellent CCP program, or it was in 2004 at least.


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## bigbaldguy (Jul 5, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> I wouldn't exactly use the Zombie thing as an example. Many of the LODDs among EMS personnel are from heart attacks and strokes. Looking at their photos, some are what might be considered to be even morbidly obese. There is a direct correlation between obesity and cardiovascular diseases. Couple that with stress and a physically demanding job, you have a higher risk. When a young person is obese going into the profession, the chances of them changing their lifestyle are even less once they feel they are secure in employment. Instead of promoting that as the image just to make those who are overweight feel better, it is time to promote the physicial fitness requirement which is about as overlooked as the education.



Very pretty answer and completely irrelevant to the question I asked.
My question was how does having an overweight instructor affect the quality of the program? Does being overweight affect the information he is imparting to his students? Should they fire an excellent instructor who is obese and replace him with a skinny one? Perhaps they should use models for their ads so that the wrong sort of body types don't "get ideas" about going into a profession as physically demanding as pushing a stretcher? 

You looked at a picture of an instructor and based your opinion of the entire program at least partially on his physical appearance.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 5, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> I wouldn't exactly use the Zombie thing as an example. Many of the LODDs among EMS personnel are from heart attacks and strokes. Looking at their photos, some are what might be considered to be even morbidly obese. There is a direct correlation between obesity and cardiovascular diseases. Couple that with stress and a physically demanding job, you have a higher risk. When a young person is obese going into the profession, the chances of them changing their lifestyle are even less once they feel they are secure in employment. Instead of promoting that as the image just to make those who are overweight feel better, it is time to promote the physicial fitness requirement which is about as overlooked as the education.



There are plenty of fat firefighters and fat police officers. I agree we need to promote physical fitness but judging a program by a picture on their website is ridiculous. I don't know your definition of morbidly obese but if I'm looking at the same picture that definitely isn't it. 

Some people naturally have a higher BMI and are in just as good if not better shape than skinny :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s like me. 

Hate to break it to you but you aren't always right. In fact some of the stuff that you post is downright ridiculous.

The hours of this program are more than what is required by the DOT and more than some schools provide. Everyone agrees that the program should be longer in general but until that happens you have to take what you can get. Multiple people have said it's a good program yet because "they have a fat person on their website! OMG" you say it's not without bringing anything relevant to the table.

I didn't go through their program so I wont comment on if it's good or bad.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 5, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> Very pretty answer and completely irrelevant to the question I asked.
> My question was how does having an overweight instructor affect the quality of the program? Does being overweight affect the information he is imparting to his students? Should they fire an excellent instructor who is obese and replace him with a skinny one? Perhaps they should use models for their ads so that the wrong sort of body types don't "get ideas" about going into a profession as physically demanding as pushing a stretcher?
> 
> You looked at a picture of an instructor and based your opinion of the entire program at least partially on his physical appearance.



You are totally focused on just the over weight remark.  That was only one comment out of 5 statements I made about this program.

Nobody said anything about firing the guy either. 



JakeEMTP said:


> *It is only  1,160-hours which includes 260 hours of hospital clinical time and  of 360 hours of field time.
> 
> The only entrance requirements up to now has been a high school diploma and EMT cert.
> 
> ...




Being an EMT or Paramedic is a little more than just pushing the stretcher. You may have to climb stairs, carry a stretcher over a sandy beach or up a steep area. Not all surfaces are flat. 

The hours alone are stressful on the body. The 24 hour shifts will remain as the standard just because that is the way it has been done.

Why should EMS use someone who is over weight to be the image they want to be known for? No one can tell he is the best instructor they have by just the picture.  I know there are laws out there protecting the obese from discrimination but sometimes there has to be a line drawn to where a certain level of fitness and a weight requirement to be maintained. A few pounds overweight is one thing but when you start getting labeled as obese by the scales used by medical professionals, it might be time to start thinking about your health and if you will be a help or a hindrance to your partner and the patient.  I can not promote obesity if it is not right for certain professions. 

Now try to get past the over weight comments and evaluate the rest of the program.  It seems you are very sensitive about this subject even though you were not singled out as being overweight.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 5, 2012)

NVRob said:


> There are plenty of fat firefighters and fat police officers. I agree we need to promote physical fitness but judging a program by a picture on their website is ridiculous. I don't know your definition of morbidly obese but if I'm looking at the same picture that definitely isn't it.
> 
> Some people naturally have a higher BMI and are in just as good if not better shape than skinny :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s like me.
> 
> ...



There is a medical definition for obese and I am pretty sure the guy in the picture would fit that. 

Does this mean we have to promote obesity as being right in EMS, Fire or Police?  Should all fitness standards just be ignored because they are too hard to achieve? Should all EMS programs be rated as outstanding because the meet the minimum?  Those are some sad summations about where EMS is going when we choose to ignor the rationale for our own health and the advancement of EMS. But then fighting for the lowest standard and seeing it is a protected right to do just the minimum seems to be the way to go.

My original post was directed at Maine who said the program was "awesome". I wanted to know what made a program awesome that just met the minimal standards and carried a hefty price tag. I was hoping for something more than a helicopter ride. 1000 hours are not that many and it is too bad that some have accepted this as being the standard for the outstanding programs.


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## bigbaldguy (Jul 5, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> You are totally focused on just the over weight remark.  That was only one comment out of 5 statements I made about this program.
> 
> Nobody said anything about firing the guy either.
> 
> ...



I am very sensitive to poorly thought out comments and assumptions made on faulty logic and personal biases. 

Again in what way does an instructor being overweight affect the information he imparts and the quality of the program.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 5, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> I am very sensitive to poorly thought out comments and assumptions made on faulty logic and personal biases.
> 
> Again in what way does an instructor being overweight affect the information he imparts and the quality of the program.



Again look at the other reasons. The overweight guy was just one reason.

You are just too sensitive to discuss this logically especially when you can not get past the over weight part.  You would find fault with anything I post now because you seem to have taken this very personally as an attack on you.

Also the guy in the photo appears to be a young student and not an instructor.


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## JakeEMTP (Jul 6, 2012)

I don't know what you tried to prove here by your comments since I just wanted to know why a program is considered awesome when its overall description is not much more than other minimum standard programs with a huge tuition attached to them. I also don't know why you took this discussion as a personal attack and even included a picture of yourself to prove some point which is not clear. As a community leader you should have  better judgement than to attack members for having an opinion about physical fitness and asking a question about this program's academic standards. 

Now, if anyone who supports this program can answer the academic questions as to what makes a program "awesome' and to what they compare it to, that would be greatly appreciated.


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## Aidey (Jul 6, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> Again look at the other reasons. The overweight guy was just one reason.
> 
> You are just too sensitive to discuss this logically especially when you can not get past the over weight part.  You would find fault with anything I post now because you seem to have taken this very personally as an attack on you.
> 
> Also the guy in the photo appears to be a young student and not an instructor.



And you are just too condescending to discuss anything with. You made an irrelevant, judgmental comment and you got called out on it. Suck it up and deal with it. 

The fact is the program meets or exceeds the DOT standards. If you don't like the standards, take it up with the DOT. The entrance requirements also are not that far off from industry standards. Again, if you don't like it write a letter to JEMS. Unless you have personal knowledge of the quality of the instruction at the program your opinions are useless to this thread.


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## Remeber343 (Jul 6, 2012)

I know exactly of the photo being discussed, why do you assume I was talking of BBG?  I was not. I was talking about the picture on their page, and as I said before, you are just passing judgment on him. You are just guessing about his abilities, if he is able to for fill his job duties who cares how big he is? If he is able to do the job, there's nothing to argue about. And I was using a descriptive word of the actions you were presenting, that is not name calling. That would be against the rules and I would never do that. .


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## Aidey (Jul 6, 2012)

JakeEMTP said:


> I asked a question about the quality of the program since the  information given on the website did not offer anything different.  Bigbaldguy apparently has not attended this program either. He has an  opinion and is distracted by the overweight guy to which he seems to  think I was attacking him personally. His fixation over that one comment  out of 5 others derailed the topic of this discussion just as your  comment has even after I have made an attempt to salvage it.
> 
> Your attitude towards education is probably why programs with just the  minimal number of hours have become so accepted.  JEMS has nothing to do  with education or regulation of EMS policies. If you want to discuss  this you should stop making personal attacks and do some research for a  more informed discussion on these topics concerning education. Personal  attacks really don't make your posts credible.




Main iac clearly listed in their post why they thought the program was  awesome. Since awesome is a subjective observation they can base their  opinion on anything they want to. It doesn't have to be based on whatever  standards you think are acceptable. 

You brought up an irrelevant point, and bigbaldguy called you on it. His opinion is that your nit-picking about the people in the photos was uncalled for and had nothing to do with the actual quality of the program. Unlike you, he never offered an opinion on the program, just an opinion on your ridiculous statement. Same as I have done. 

You have no idea what my attitude towards education is, so I thank you to not make assumptions about it. I am fully aware that JEMS has nothing to do with education or regulation, but you seem to need somewhere to get on your soapbox and whine, and I think JEMS would be more a more fitting place than this forum. If you want to discuss this you should tone down the holier-than-thou attitude and stop sounding like a condescending know-it-all. 

Also, this isn't a personal attack, it is a commentary on your attitude as perceived in your posts. A personal attack would be saying "JakeEMTP doesn't have a valid point because they are an obnoxious twit".


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## firetender (Jul 6, 2012)

*Everybody*

Cool your socks please.


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## Jon (Jul 8, 2012)

Jake - what experience with this school have you had? Did you attend? Have you worked with graduates? Before you slam everyone else for having an opinion, do you have any feedback about the school other than "I don't think the course is long enough" and "there's a picture of a fat guy".


Further, you allege we in EMS need to be physically fit because 





> The hours alone are stressful on the body. The 24 hour shifts will remain as the standard just because that is the way it has been done.



Just because we've been doing it for so long doesn't mean it's the right thing. There is a LOT of evidence that healthcare providers on long shifts make MANY more mistakes than HCP's on less taxing shifts. There is no scientifically evidence that says a 24-hour shift is MORE healthy than 2 12's - we just like them because they are convenient, and allow us to go work other jobs around it.


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## WestMetroMedic (Jul 9, 2012)

My service, 300 miles to the north, has hired a handful of their graduates, and we have a contract with them for their internship and i have never heard a bad word about that program, in fact quite the opposite.  They have an outstanding amount of alumni loyalty back to the program.

Everyone had their opinions on the programs that they deal with.  Every program should be teaching to the standard, but the quality of the education you purchase isn't reflected strictly in numbers, it is reflected in interns coming to clinical sites able to hold their own, talk to people and be a contributing member of a crew, not just a ride along.  A good program with great instructors will do that, it will teach a student the intangibles most programs do not include and make their graduates stand out from the field based on their programs reputation.

Right now, i have an intern from Fairbanks Alaska working with me for 2 months and he, like every other student they have sent us, is an excellent provider, who knows how to talk to people, and could easily get hired wherever he chooses, even though i know his heart is always in Alaska...  I implicitly respect that program for that reason and it is why their graduates general get at least a first round interview at my service.

I can count off one hand and still have left over fingers, the number of medic programs that i completely respect, and Iowa is one of them.


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## Maine iac (Jul 9, 2012)

Quality of the instructors is everything. One of the primary instructors has decades of ER nursing, flew as a critical care nurse, is a paramedic, and has been teaching for years (oh yeah... she wrote the Iowa CCP guidelines- one of two nationally recognized CCP curriculums). Another instructor was a critical care flight medic for decades. The other instructor has decades of teaching experience and is a quality instructor, as all the others are.

Those are just the core instructors- can you tell me how many paramedic programs have practicing PharmDs teaching pharmacology, anesthesiologists teaching airway labs, and world renown doctors lecturing on their specialties?

Their class hour limit is pretty standard for all paramedic programs and is based off of specific contacts and not hours reached. For instance if you run 24 hour shifts at a rural service and see 2pts a day you won't be finished in the 300 hr minimum.

The program is directly affiliated with UIHC, a level 1 teaching hospital, which is ranked pretty highly.

Their pass rates on the NREMT are very competitive with the best programs in the country.

While their entrance requirements might be low, you apply and interview for the program, so joe blow might not get in.

It is affiliated with the University of Iowa- you get, i think, 30 credits when you finish it and are a student for 2 or 3 semesters (depending on if you take the winter or summer class).

Fully operational SIM lab, with multiple mannequins.



JakeEMTP, why don't you put up the link to your medic program and we can compare the two.


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