# "Volunteer Training" Discussion



## Mountain Res-Q (May 2, 2009)

Volunteer Training Discussion

BEFORE THIS TURNS INTO ANOTHER "PAID PROFESSIONAL VS. VOLUNTEER PROFESSIONAL” ARGUMENT AND GET’S CLOSED:  NO ONE WANTS ANOTHER DEBATE ON THIS (SEARCH AND READ OLD POSTS IF YOU MUST).  NO MINDS WILL GET CHANGED BY ANY RANTING.  THIS IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD, BUT IT IS A REAL DISCUSSION ON HOW VOLUNTEERS TRY TO STAY AS CURRENT AS THE PAID FOLKS…

IF YOU ARE NOT A VOLUNTEER OR HAVE NOTHING HELPFUL TO SAY, PLEASE DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.  THANK YOU.

So, obviously one of the arguments against volunteers in emergency services (not just Ambulance) is that they are not capable of fully involving themselves in the craft, therefore their skills are not as sharp as the paid, and the need to keep standards low to continue to accommodate these volunteers keeps the standards for the field just as low.  Yadda, Yadda, Yadda.  Whether this is true is not the debate today.  I would hope that any volunteers we have on the forums realize that paid or not they need to continue to expand their education and train as often as possible to provide a level of care at the same level expected of paid (if not always received).

No matter what your area of volunteer (Ambulance, Fire, SAR, etc…), this is a thread to discuss ways that you/your department utilize to stay current as you strive to provide great training for the volunteers and great service to your community.  Share suggestions on things you have found helpful in team/department trainings.

*I’ll start.*  Maybe my suggestions will help others and maybe yours will help me.  As the newly elected Medical Team Leader for my SAR Team, I (in conjunction with the Team Training Officer) am looking for ways to offer great training to my team to keep them sharp and up to date on current search/rescue/recovery/medical concepts.  This does not merely include medical training, but that is my focus.  For instance, I am currently assisting in the rewriting of a Team Training annual that hasn’t seen changes since 1996.  I am working with the Ropes Team Leader on a large scale drill next month; one of many as we often try to find interesting trainings to go to/participate in (i.e. padding the budget so that we can get a little flight time in and run helo rappel drills every few years).  The big one I am thrilled with:  We recently arranged for a highly respected MD/FACEP with vast amounts of SAR/Outdoor Medical knowledge to come around every ~4 weeks for 2 hour wilderness medical presentations.  Subsequent to that opportunity, I had a meeting with the county Ambulance Training Coordinator who offered a collaboration; they get to join us in our training and we get to join them in theirs (as well as receiving CEUs from them for all joint medical training we do with them).  We have already completed a 2 hour class on hypothermia last week, and I’ve got a 2 hour class on MCIs lined up (presented by Ambulance), followed by a 2 hour class on hyperthermia (presented by our MD/FACEP) next week.  In addition to great training for all involved, it gives us the chance to collaborate with Ambulance.

So, what ways have the vollies here found useful in keeping sharp?  Cool trainings?  Interesting classes you dept organized?  Resources you might suggest others try to utalize?  ETC?


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## ffemt8978 (May 2, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Volunteer Training Discussion
> 
> BEFORE THIS TURNS INTO ANOTHER "PAID PROFESSIONAL VS. VOLUNTEER PROFESSIONAL” ARGUMENT AND GET’S CLOSED:
> 
> IF YOU ARE NOT A VOLUNTEER OR HAVE NOTHING HELPFUL TO SAY, PLEASE DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.  THANK YOU.



First of all, any member here can post to any thread or topic that they want.  Secondly, that much shouting is rude.  Thirdly, if anything leads to this thread being closed, it will be comments like the second part quoted above.


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## mycrofft (May 2, 2009)

*Watch the basics.*

The biggest issue will be keeping your volunteers engaged, feeling good about coming, and recruiting to offset turnover. If you make this strictly rigorous, you have to make it very socially rewarding. Otherwise you will see a decline in attendance, and your trainer will bail. Find out what types of social events your members value, find a member who's good at those sort of things, and do them (potlucks, rive rafting, roadtrip to Tahoe, camping, group movie discounts, attend conferences out of the area together etc). 

Other than that, have a mix of hands-on, short lectures with audio visual, and get them on real life patients as much as possible.


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## DV_EMT (May 2, 2009)

My two cents:

as a volunteer myself, I believe that It can't hurt to be engaged. It's better than not doing anything at all. For instance, here in Santa Barbara, EMT jobs are hard to come by because its a monopoly. AMR runs the ambulance, and Cottage Hospital is the only other option (aside from fire).

Being a member of our County's Medical Reserve Corp (all medically licenced staff) allows EMT's to get a broader knowledge base as well as it focuses moreso on disaster preparedness and or Mass Casualty Incidents. Seeing as how 9/11 occured, how this Influenza pandemic is occuring, and who knows what will occur, we are fine tuning our incident command as well as our response to various areas.

It may not be a SAR team, and it may not be ambulance or fire. But at least its something


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 2, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> First of all, any member here can post to any thread or topic that they want.  Secondly, that much shouting is rude.  Thirdly, if anything leads to this thread being closed, it will be comments like the second part quoted above.



I'm sorry if "pleases" and thank yous" are cosidered rude when all I'm asking for is that no one hijacks this thread to start another "Voluenteers are Bad" rant.  Yes, anyone can post if they want.  But, if that is anyones intent when deciding to post here I an ASKING that they rethink it so that the true intent of this thread can remain one of education.  If that is not possible, then please do close it.

Oh, and sorry if that is taken as taken as rude shouting.  I was only looking to get everyones attention so that this isn't closed.  Now if anyone wants to stay on topic...


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## DV_EMT (May 2, 2009)

^^^ its ok... i know you were giving a disclaimer...

maybe next time... only caps certain sections to put emphasis  that way people dont think your yelling


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## medicdan (May 2, 2009)

I am in a similar situation... I have recently been elected to be the training officer for a 70-members College EMS service. We maintain a 4-person duty crew with our BLS vehicle 24/7, 9 months/year. 

We struggle enormously to maintain competency within our corps. The majority of our members have no experience or education beyond their EMT class, and members who we cultivate to be quality patient care givers and leaders internally soon graduate. We function not only as an EMS organization, but also as a club within the university, so have social goals alongside our medical.

With all of that said, the history of the corps indicates that training is most beneficial when done in conjunction with team building and social events. Before dorms officially open every year, we hold 2 days of classes and events, ranging from refreshers on protocols, to scavenger hunts of the campus (to refresh people's memories), to a BBQ, MCI drill (requiring teams of members to triage 30+ patients in a certain ammt of time, then compared to other teams), etc.

After that, I hope to hold 2-3 CE classes/month, everything from lectures on Acute Alcohol Intox to lectures from our medical director, classes on sexual assault, etc. Assuming that I hold 6-7/semester, I plan on insisting that members attend 4-5 in order to maintain active status. I give them the dates far in advance, and expect that if they cannot attend, they let me know before the class.

I think what I am doing is entirely practical and appropriate. I encourage members to obtain off-campus experience, but few do. Through bringing in outside speakers and making the classes interesting, I hope to minimize the monotonicity of the CEs. 

Hope this helps, I look forward to reading more responses!


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## daedalus (May 2, 2009)

Well, its not how to stay as current as the paid guys. I am sure there are some volly departments that use inservices more than some paid departments. It is the fact that if we raise the education requirements of EMTs and Paramedics, there will be no one who can afford to go to one, two years of school and volunteer those services away. Therefor, most volly agencies fight improvements in education.

As far as staying current, it is your ethical responsibility to do so. Just because you are a volunteer, you are still providing patient care, so you have a duty to continue life long education in the health sciences.


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## medicdan (May 2, 2009)

I will add one more caviat to my previous statement. We consider actual patient care expierence (and varied expiernce, at that) to be just as important as attending lectures and CEs.


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## firecoins (May 2, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> First of all, any member here can post to any thread or topic that they want.  Secondly, that much shouting is rude.  Thirdly, if anything leads to this thread being closed, it will be comments like the second part quoted above.



We all know it was a disclaimer. No one is offended by it.


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 2, 2009)

firecoins said:


> We all know it was a disclaimer. No one is offended by it.



Ya, but even when completely CAPPED there are those that still want to debate the volunteer system rather than offer constructive thoughts on how to raise the bar for volunteers.  I feel another thread hijack, another vollie debate, and another thread closure coming...

At least I tried.  :sad:

But, the thought about not just focusing on classes and ceus has me thinking.  I have a meeting with the Ambulance folks next week to discus future joint training; I might see about arranging a "ride along" program for our team members.  Before anyone blasts ride alongs, our team are all considered county employees (same as the ambulance), are familiar with confidentiality, and are already certified at various levels of EMS.  most of the team members with MFR and EMT have had little Street EMS experience, so that might prove valuable from an observation standpoint, not that they would play a huge role in patient care in Street EMS.


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## eynonqrs (May 2, 2009)

In pennsylvania anyway, all EMT's must take 24 ceu's of con ed - 12 med/trauma, 12 other in order to recert.  My volunteer service has in house training once a month.  We just had several new members join, they are required to go through an in service before they can run on any call. We do not only do ems, but provide rescue services.  There are alot of services that hold con ed classes.  We also partake in joint training with our mutal aid companies (i.e. MCI drills and other disaster planning).


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## firecoins (May 3, 2009)

mountain res-q said:


> ya, but even when completely capped there are those that still want to debate the volunteer system .



I do it in all caps and it converts it to lower case.  Very tricky, forum moderators.


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## lightsandsirens5 (May 3, 2009)

firecoins said:


> I do it in all caps and it converts it to lower case.  Very tricky, forum moderators.



So you aren't aloud to shout eather? I guess the mods know us yellers and put the lid on us before we even get started!


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## Sasha (May 3, 2009)

> Ya, but even when completely CAPPED there are those that still want to debate the volunteer system rather than offer constructive thoughts on how to raise the bar for volunteers. I feel another thread hijack, another vollie debate, and another thread closure coming...



They're completely within their right to do so.


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## Foxbat (May 3, 2009)

Sasha said:


> They're completely within their right to do so.


Technically, yes. Just like volunteers, technically, could hijack threads about salaries, employement, etc. and turn it into career vs volunteer debate.
But it's rather counterproductive.

Just to clarify things for folks outside PA... 24 hours is the required con-ed for EMT-B within 3 years, i. e. 8 hours/year.

As of my EMS department (combination paid/volunteer), we have monthly training sessions; each one is a few hours of lectures, discussion of cases with our medical director, etc. Department also pays for members' con-ed education/training in outside institutions; paid members are actually paid their hourly wage for attending classes hosted by our department.


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## emtlady76877 (May 5, 2009)

We have CE hours here for part of us. However, I am getting tired of being a volunteer, I think. I love being an EMT. I just hate it here. I'm thinking about quitting EMS until I get out of school and then just go whereever my job takes me. But, I don't want to hurt my chances of getting a paid job. OOPS I think I just changed the thread.


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## TraumaFX (May 9, 2009)

I'd like to stick to the subject too if we could. It's a great thread.

I, myself, am a full-time, paid, career City Firefighter/EMT-I. That doesn't make me better, it just means they pay me every two weeks for something I love to do. They compensate in the form of a salary for all my training, community education and public services. Volunteers donate their time. They give me money to see all the blood and gore; to hear the screams, to poke, prod and inject my patients, and sometimes just to listen and hold a hand. I've laughed with families after a good outcome for Grandpa and I've cried with parents while I held their lifeless baby in my arms after I tried everything I knew. I get paid very well for all that - good and bad. 

I was a volunteer for many years and found a curious thing when I went career: although I work with some very professional, caring and fun guys and girls, I miss the "spirit" and "family" of volunteering. We did it because we cared. We made a difference and we did it for practically nothing. Oh, there were some (and still are) who do it for their own glory. They love to parade around with their uniform, patches and pager and spout off a few medical terms now and again and brag about that "last call" they were on. But they are the minority. The rest are dedicated and hard working men and women. Their families put up with allot of missed birthdays, family dinners, holidays and special occasions because their "volunteer" is out helping people. They have a special place in Heaven as far as I'm concerned.

I love my career; it pays well and I'm a lucky guy to have it, but it was allot of hard work. I think I learned that work ethic as a volunteer. Volunteering also taught me to be proud of what I did. I really miss those days. If you are one, be proud. Very proud. You really do make a difference in this world. Any career Firefighter or EMT that says otherwise is terribly insecure. 

You all do a great job - keep it up! I admire each and every one of you.

Bob


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## mycrofft (May 10, 2009)

*Trauma FX, great observation!*

Vollies spirit can run deep and it's a shame when an organization can't spark something like it in a professional unit. If you like it, stay engaged by helping train volunteers, attending their fundraisers, etc. Marry one!


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 10, 2009)

mycrofft said:


> Vollies spirit can run deep and it's a shame when an organization can't spark something like it in a professional unit. If you like it, stay engaged by helping train volunteers, attending their fundraisers, etc. *Marry one*!



Or two......


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## mycrofft (May 10, 2009)

*Stay on thread, Red Lader, stay on thread....*

There is a wealth of stuff on this forum about training. I reiterate: make it fun as well as serious!!


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 10, 2009)

Our Team schedule is pretty full with training and community events for a 10 day stretch here.

Last Thur: 1 Hour training on UTMs followed by the 2 hours business meeting.
Friday: Memorial for the first CALFIRE female firefighter to die in teh line of duty (they are dedicating the portion of the highway near where SAR locarted her remains).  Followed by set up for the 2nd largest Parade in CA... we count setup and the parade as ICS training, EVOC/Trailering training, Mounted Training, ATV Training, and Canine Training.
Saturday (yesterday): Parade from 0800 to 1430.  Again we count it as training considerng the scope of the deal.
Monday (tomarrow): Several hours of ropes practice (especially for the newbies) in anticipation of the upcoming drill.
Tuesday: 2 hour MCI class, 1 hour class on the ambulances new IV pumps, 1 hour socialization with the Ambulance folks, and a 2 hour FACEP Wilderness EMS class.
Wednessday:  Californias Fallen Peace Officers Memorial and a special appearence at a "womens group".
Saturday:  A full 8-10 hours rope rescue drill.  Full deal.  Patients placed at the bottom of a gorge.  We get paged out early in the am, repspond as we noramally would, and run a full "real" drill.  My focus on this deal as MEdical Team Leader is: Making sure triage is preformed by first person over the bank, correct resources are requested (additional gear, helos, etc..), correct assessment and treatemnt is initiated by the rope rescue guys, that the people who go over the embankment have a minimally correct amount of medical gear in their personal packs (gloves, dresssings, etc...) so that they can start to assess/treat before the next folks get down with a full trauma bag), that patients are braught up in the correct order, that med nets are preformed to inform the waiting "ambulance" of what we got, etc...  We are also getting evaluated by an independant source; a Battalion Chief/Fire Academy instructor who also happens to be a Chief for one of the FEMA USAR Teams.

Busy week, packed with training and events.  Should be fun.

Based on my 4 months as a teamleader, trying to arrange training and classes to get the team as much knowledge and training is possible is to search out every source in the area.  The various other (paid) agencies in the county all organize and run their own trainings and classes.  See if you can get in on them.  If a strong team spirit exists between the Emergency Services Family, then it shouldn't be a problem.  In addition to the work I am doin trying to involve us SAR folks with the Ambulance folk's training, we also have training set up with Animal Control on large animal rope rescue techniques, helo training (hot loading, rappelling, etc...), and I am going to try to hook up with the local ER and the Fire/Rescue folks.  The more training I can arrange, the better equipped we are to respond and deal with whatever challenges we are presented with... and it is one more rebuttal for the people who look down on volunteers!


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## Coptrainer (May 13, 2009)

As a VFD volunteer, I found I wasn't using my EMS skills as much as I'd hoped.  So, I went to work with an ambulance company.  Now, I work there and do the medical training for the two VFDs I volunteer with.  All that keeps me sharp AND helps my fellow VFD members sharp through my training.


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