# LODD Med Jet N880Z



## HardKnocks (Dec 28, 2021)

A Med Jet Air Ambulance went down in San Diego County.  4 POB perished in a Lear35 N880Z.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...hborhood-near-el-cajon-power-outages/2825983/

You stay in the Biz long enough...you'll lose acquaintances and friends to Aviation Incidents.

Btw, there's a gruesome audio post of the PIC's last words to Controllers.........it should be taken down out of respect.

HK


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2021)

It immediately reminded me of this crash in Teterboro.

When reading the NTSB report on the Learjet 35A at Teterboro it was clear that medical evacuation charter flights often scraped the bottom of the charter pilot barrel. 

Inexperienced pilots, often poor weather conditions, with lax standards and protocols.

In the case of the Med Jet Air Ambulance, I look forward to reading the report, but it seems odd for a pilot to cancel IFR prior to landing in IFR-ish weather at night at a particularly difficult airport.


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## CCCSD (Dec 28, 2021)

MMiz said:


> It immediately reminded me of this crash in Teterboro.
> 
> When reading the NTSB report on the Learjet 35A at Teterboro it was clear that medical evacuation charter flights often scraped the bottom of the charter pilot barrel.
> 
> ...


Agreed. The NTSB report will be interesting.


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## FiremanMike (Dec 28, 2021)

MMiz said:


> It immediately reminded me of this crash in Teterboro.
> 
> When reading the NTSB report on the Learjet 35A at Teterboro it was clear that medical evacuation charter flights often scraped the bottom of the charter pilot barrel.
> 
> ...





CCCSD said:


> Agreed. The NTSB report will be interesting.


There’s several angles of ring cam footage that show glare rings telling me there was probably some IFR conditions, although I always thought that wasn’t that big of a deal for fixed wing..


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## CCCSD (Dec 28, 2021)

FiremanMike said:


> There’s several angles of ring cam footage that show glare rings telling me there was probably some IFR conditions, although I always thought that wasn’t that big of a deal for fixed wing..


It is. It’s ALWAYS a threat.


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2021)

FiremanMike said:


> There’s several angles of ring cam footage that show glare rings telling me there was probably some IFR conditions, although I always thought that wasn’t that big of a deal for fixed wing..



From what I understand based on the ATC recording and news stories, the runway they wanted to land on did not allow instrument (IFR) landings at night due to terrain.

It sounds like the pilot at the last moment cancelled his IFR flight plan, said he was visual with the airport, and planned to do the circle to land approach on his desired runway.  He then asks for the runway lights to be turned up (they were already at 100% per ATC).

It looks strikingly similar to the previous incident I posted.  Here's to hoping it wasn't another unstabilized approach with an aerodynamic stall.

The NTSB report will be telling, but challenging weather, night flying, and short runways are a rough combination.


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## CbrMonster (Dec 28, 2021)

Did they release the names those who were on board? I know some people that work there. 

From what I’ve heard it takes two pilots to fly the craft, and I assume the medical team. Luckily there doesn’t sound like a patient was onboard. 

I heard the audio, very chilling to hear.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 29, 2021)

CbrMonster said:


> Did they release the names those who were on board? I know some people that work there.
> 
> From what I’ve heard it takes two pilots to fly the craft, and I assume the medical team. Luckily there doesn’t sound like a patient was onboard.
> 
> I heard the audio, very chilling to hear.


From what I have been hearing it was pilot, medic, and 2 nurses. I have work friends on Facebook saying the nurses names are Tina and Laurie.


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## HardKnocks (Dec 29, 2021)

MMiz said:


> It immediately reminded me of this crash in Teterboro.
> 
> When reading the NTSB report on the Learjet 35A at Teterboro it was clear that medical evacuation charter flights often scraped the bottom of the charter pilot barrel.
> 
> Inexperienced pilots, often poor weather conditions, with lax standards and protocols.


Inexperience was not a factor in this case.  

Air Ambulance Flight Protocols are not lax.

Unconfirmed reports state that the PIC had over 20,000 of Flt time.  

They have to comply with FAA Part 135 operating regulations.

I'll not raise an opinion as to the probable cause of the incident, (because other factors like equipment failure/malfunction have yet to be investigated).

Either way, its a tragic event.


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## MMiz (Dec 29, 2021)

Pure speculation on my part. It’s absolutely tragic and my thoughts are with their families and colleagues.


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## CbrMonster (Dec 29, 2021)

Seems a lot of pilots commenting with experience dealing with Gillespie airfield, that one he was attempting to land at have flown this same model craft have all had the same thought of it being a stall during the turn.


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## MEDicJohn (Dec 29, 2021)

so I live 2 miles away from the San Diego crash. I was off duty at home when I felt the shockwave. I literally thought it was an earthquake. This is the second plane crash in two month out of this airport.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 29, 2021)

So the newest update is saying 2 pilots and 2 nurses were onboard at the time of the crash. 

The initial runway the pilots had IFR clearance for is not long enough for their aircraft to land on especially for it being a wet runway. So it looks like they cancelled the IFR flight plan to change to a VFR approach to 27R which is long enough for them to land on but does not have any IFR approaches.


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## mgr22 (Dec 29, 2021)

CbrMonster said:


> Seems a lot of pilots commenting with experience dealing with Gillespie airfield, that one he was attempting to land at have flown this same model craft have all had the same thought of it being a stall during the turn.


I agree after watching the video, listening to the audio, and seeing the mapped flight path.


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## HardKnocks (Dec 29, 2021)

IN MEMORIAM
https://media.nbcsandiego.com/2021/12/Crash-Victims1.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&fit=1920,1080&w=975&h=548&crop=1


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## Akulahawk (Dec 30, 2021)

MMiz said:


> another unstabilized approach with an aerodynamic stall.


When I saw video of this crash, and knowing that it was a circling landing, that's exactly what came to mind. I think the pilot was flying at too high an AoA and tried to bring the nose around just a little bit tighter to not overshoot centerline and stalled a wing. I don't know if the jet had an AoA indexer instrument, but I suspect that if it did, it would have shown a VERY close to stall AoA. If it was what I think it was, it's a problem that has been known about for a VERY long time and in jets, is very quickly a fatal problem.


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## CCCSD (Dec 30, 2021)

You can’t Yank and Bank in that type without an outcome.


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## Akulahawk (Dec 30, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> You can’t Yank and Bank in that type without an outcome.


You _can_ but just not when slow. You can exceed the critical AoA without pulling excessive G's when slow.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 30, 2021)

Akulahawk said:


> You _can_ but just not when slow. You can exceed the critical AoA without pulling excessive G's when slow.


Slow and low.  Doing it at 30000 feet is much different than 3000.


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## Akulahawk (Dec 30, 2021)

ffemt8978 said:


> Slow and low.  Doing it at 30000 feet is much different than 3000.


Even more so different at 1200 feet AGL.


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 30, 2021)

Akulahawk said:


> Even more so different at 1200 feet AGL.


From the stuff I have seen they were more like ~300-500 feet AGL when they started the turn


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## DesertMedic66 (Dec 30, 2021)

If anyone is interested and local they are putting together a candlelight memorial this Sunday the 2nd at 1630 at the crash site, Pepper Drive and Bevin Lane in San Diego.


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## GMCmedic (Dec 31, 2021)

The audio was very chilling


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## FiremanMike (Dec 31, 2021)

GMCmedic said:


> The audio was very chilling


Link?


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## Aprz (Dec 31, 2021)

Here's the last minute of the audio. It's very sudden.


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## mgr22 (Jan 13, 2022)

NTSB releases preliminary report on fatal 2021 air ambulance crash
					

An aviation expert said the report confirms speculation that the Learjet 35 business jet crashed while the pilot attempted to perform a difficult maneuver at low altitude




					www.ems1.com


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## Comfort Care (Jan 23, 2022)

Tina and Laurie were some badass nurses, used to work with them in the ED before they went CCT/ Flight. They will be missed.


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