# Law Enforcement / Medic



## Drwlemt (Nov 19, 2016)

Hi everyone,
New to the forum and wanted to see if anyone had any advice. I got out of the Marine Corps and got my basic and have worked with a 911 service for a couple years. I'm finishing up my AAS in emergency medicine soon and will be testing for EMT-P. I really enjoy doing EMS but I'm curious where I can go that'll allow me to work as a LEO and medic. I've talked to a Maryland Trooper recruiter and that's an option. I've also  looked into BORSTAR but from what I'm seeing it looks like I would've been better off going straight into the boarder patrol out of the military instead of trying to go  from EMS to the BP. talked to my local sheriff office and they don't utilize tactical medics and don't allow "moonlighting" or holding down a second job. Curious to see what other options are out there. Thanks in advance everyone.


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## NysEms2117 (Nov 19, 2016)

Drwlemt said:


> Hi everyone,
> New to the forum and wanted to see if anyone had any advice. I got out of the Marine Corps and got my basic and have worked with a 911 service for a couple years. I'm finishing up my AAS in emergency medicine soon and will be testing for EMT-P. I really enjoy doing EMS but I'm curious where I can go that'll allow me to work as a LEO and medic. I've talked to a Maryland Trooper recruiter and that's an option. I've also  looked into BORSTAR but from what I'm seeing it looks like I would've been better off going straight into the boarder patrol out of the military instead of trying to go  from EMS to the BP. talked to my local sheriff office and they don't utilize tactical medics and don't allow "moonlighting" or holding down a second job. Curious to see what other options are out there. Thanks in advance everyone.


Most jobs that combine them will be federal in nature.. Currently the closest i would imagine you being able to get on the State level would be a tactical team(which im sure they would love to have a USMC vet.). I know in NYS there are tactical teams at the state level that do high risk warrants, and respond to violent emergencies (shooters, big bank robberies, ect) and there is always a medical professional. There is a weird system, where technically i can do both(be an EMT and a LEO) at that specific moment in time, but obviously those are rare. If im not mistaken, which i may be because i'm not from maryland, the only reason that is an option is because Maryland sources their HEMS operations to the state police, but they function as HEMS only, and not a helicopter spotlighting a car chase ect. Currently i work with NYSDOCCS(parole) and a side gig of EMS with the sheriffs Dpt. EMS unit. Idk if this helped at all, but if you have more questions just lmk.


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## STXmedic (Nov 19, 2016)

The San Antonio Police Dept has a team of approx. 40 officers that are trained as medics (various levels). Their primary role is law enforcement, but they do get to play a fair amount.

BORSTAR would be an awesome gig. I've done a bit training with those guys- they're pretty good at what they do.


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## Drwlemt (Nov 19, 2016)

NysEms2117 said:


> Most jobs that combine them will be federal in nature.. Currently the closest i would imagine you being able to get on the State level would be a tactical team(which im sure they would love to have a USMC vet.). I know in NYS there are tactical teams at the state level that do high risk warrants, and respond to violent emergencies (shooters, big bank robberies, ect) and there is always a medical professional. There is a weird system, where technically i can do both(be an EMT and a LEO) at that specific moment in time, but obviously those are rare. If im not mistaken, which i may be because i'm not from maryland, the only reason that is an option is because Maryland sources their HEMS operations to the state police, but they function as HEMS only, and not a helicopter spotlighting a car chase ect. Currently i work with NYSDOCCS(parole) and a side gig of EMS with the sheriffs Dpt. EMS unit. Idk if this helped at all, but if you have more questions just lmk.



Appreciate it. I'm noticing that at the state level they tend to be two completely separate entities. But my only frame of reference is for here in North Carolina so I'm trying to see if anyone else has had any experience and any advice helps. I'm considering after I finish my medic going through BLET and just doing one part time and the other full time but would definitely rather have a job that incorporates both. Even considering finishing my bachelors and going for the FBI HRT as a medic but I'm just worried that ill be too close to the age cut off to be considered.


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## Drwlemt (Nov 19, 2016)

STXmedic said:


> The San Antonio Police Dept has a team of approx. 40 officers that are trained as medics (various levels). Their primary role is law enforcement, but they do get to play a fair amount.
> 
> BORSTAR would be an awesome gig. I've done a bit training with those guys- they're pretty good at what they do.



Awesome thank you. Heard a lot of good things about the BORSTAR team sounds like they prefer guys to come on as an agent first then after some time and showing interest they put you thru the schooling. Haven't talked to anyone yet that applied as a medic but it would great to see if anyone's gone that route.


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## NysEms2117 (Nov 19, 2016)

I'm currently in the federal application process (stage 1 STILL with the FBI(they take forever!), stage 2- with USMS and DEA, and just recently applied to the ATF). my B.S is in Criminal justice/Criminology, minor in Computer science(just for reference). They are 2 separate entities, i dont know of any states in the North east to have state EMS, most are county agencies or outsourced EMS, Albany county for example: Mohawk ambulance and AMR. I'm rather content with LE as my main job(state pension and all that jazz) and EMS for some "useable" money. However since the state pays for school if i decide to go i am getting a BSN in nursing(starting school soon). Tbh if you apply soon to the feds you'll probably get processed much faster then i did since you served. I do think any Federal "special teams" DEA FAST, FBI HRT, USMS fugitive TF, all will require you to be with the agency for 3-5 years before you can apply intra-agency for the special units. Another thing to remember is most of those special units do in-fact deploy, but they are based stateside.


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## NysEms2117 (Nov 19, 2016)

STXmedic said:


> The San Antonio Police Dept has a team of approx. 40 officers that are trained as medics (various levels). Their primary role is law enforcement, but they do get to play a fair amount.


What are they used for? Is it blanket use (example: if they are dispatched and get there before the ambulance, do they do their medic stuff?). Or is it TECC medicine only?


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## VentMonkey (Nov 19, 2016)

Drwlemt said:


> Awesome thank you. Heard a lot of good things about the BORSTAR team sounds like they prefer guys to come on as an agent first then after some time and showing interest they put you thru the schooling. Haven't talked to anyone yet that applied as a medic but it would great to see if anyone's gone that route.


It sounds as though getting your EMT, and/ or paramedic beforehand wouldn't hurt your chances, but you would in fact need to do two years before being considered, and you're put through an EMT course anyhow. It also sounds as though having your paramedic isn't an absolute must, so I don't know exactly what level of a provider they typically practice at/ staff.

Like any special ops within an agency it sounds as though they're out for the right fit (select group), good luck.

http://myborderpatroljob.com/what-is-borstar/


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 19, 2016)

Delaware State Police also use trooper medics.


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## VentMonkey (Nov 19, 2016)

DEmedic said:


> Delaware State Police also use trooper medics.


Question: how much paramedic stuff do they really do? 

I don't know much about them, but from what I have seen MSP doesn't do much aside from basic treatment/ transport. I did look into them a while back, and their training/ protocols seemed to be much more than what I have actually seen.


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 19, 2016)

The MSP guys are used a lot. In lots of places they're the only RSI medics and they transport a fair amount of gnarly stuff. They always seems like a well respected group to me, but I'd only met some of the guys in training. 

The DE trooper medics do less of the EMS and more of the LEO stuff, but they're the tactical swat medics and are called on to transport pretty often. The county ground medics were usually flying with them, if the patient required any airway management.


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## STXmedic (Nov 19, 2016)

NysEms2117 said:


> What are they used for? Is it blanket use (example: if they are dispatched and get there before the ambulance, do they do their medic stuff?). Or is it TECC medicine only?


The initial idea behind them was to have medically-trained officers that could get to an officer-down situation faster than an EMS unit who had to stage. They've since evolved into treating civilians when they arrive before EMS does (major MVCs, shootings, and assaults are pretty common runs they help on). They've actually been very successful with their program and have legitimately saved countless lives over the last 5 years that would've very likely died prior to EMS arriving.


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## VentMonkey (Nov 19, 2016)

DEmedic said:


> The MSP guys are used a lot. In lots of places they're the only RSI medics and they transport a fair amount of gnarly stuff. They always seems like a well respected group to me, but I'd only met some of the guys in training.


Admittedly, my firsthand knowledge of them is lacking, though again, I do remember them having a solid training process, aggressive protocols, and also seemed respected. I also thought I remembered them staffing a single trooper medic/ pilot setup. Plus, those Dauphins, what a badass airship.

I asked about the DSP because I know it can be hit or miss with how much actual paramedicine some of these LE agencies provide vs. SAR with "paramedics" on board. Case, and point these guys below. Though,TMK, they do or can staff their helicopters with physicians from time to time, and if I was ever lost in the outskirts of LA County I would hope these guys found me.
They also recently got a whole new fleet of badassery...
http://www.policehelicopterpilot.com/los-angeles-sheriff-air-ops/


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## Drwlemt (Nov 19, 2016)

Great stuff guys. Its awesome to see I'm not the only person interested in this line of work. I'll take a look at DSP soon when I get a chance. When I asked one of my medic instructors about this his only response was something about law isn't his job and he would never put himself into a dangerous situation haha glad I  didn't get the same response here.


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## VentMonkey (Nov 19, 2016)

Drwlemt said:


> When I asked one of my medic instructors about this his only response was something about law isn't his job and he would never put himself into a dangerous situation haha...


Different strokes for different folks. Honestly, my train of thought is pretty much the same, I am not an LE/ medic, but to each their own and that certainly doesn't make me the guy trying to deter someone from pursuing an option I'm not.

That's the great thing about this forum though, all walks of EMS life, networking, and see what your options are.


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## NysEms2117 (Nov 19, 2016)

VentMonkey said:


> I asked about the DSP because I know it can be hit or miss with how much actual paramedicine some of these LE agencies provide vs. SAR with "paramedics" on board. Case, and point these guys below. Though,TMK, they do or can staff their helicopters with physicians from time to time, and if I was ever lost in the outskirts of LA County I would hope these guys found me.
> They also recently got a whole new fleet of badassery...
> http://www.policehelicopterpilot.com/los-angeles-sheriff-air-ops/


seems parole is not the right field anymore 


STXmedic said:


> The initial idea behind them was to have medically-trained officers that could get to an officer-down situation faster than an EMS unit who had to stage. They've since evolved into treating civilians when they arrive before EMS does (major MVCs, shootings, and assaults are pretty common runs they help on). They've actually been very successful with their program and have legitimately saved countless lives over the last 5 years that would've very likely died prior to EMS arriving.


Do they have the same off-line protocols as "normal" medics do? or is their scope narrowed? because i know in NY i am able to be a medic on a "tactical team" but my scope consists of procedures that are <30 seconds (unofficial of course) but simple simple things, BLS airway, TQ, and thats just about it.


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## NysEms2117 (Nov 19, 2016)

to be honest, i still don't know how to get into air ops LE, the NYS troopers run it, but i honestly can't find much other then the "what we do page" and i technically work for them >.<


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## STXmedic (Nov 19, 2016)

NysEms2117 said:


> Do they have the same off-line protocols as "normal" medics do? or is their scope narrowed? because i know in NY i am able to be a medic on a "tactical team" but my scope consists of procedures that are <30 seconds (unofficial of course) but simple simple things, BLS airway, TQ, and thats just about it.


Most of them are EMTs, and actually have a fairly expanded scope. Medics are allowed to work at their full scope.


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## CALEMT (Nov 20, 2016)

Drwlemt said:


> Hi everyone,
> New to the forum and wanted to see if anyone had any advice. I got out of the Marine Corps and got my basic and have worked with a 911 service for a couple years. I'm finishing up my AAS in emergency medicine soon and will be testing for EMT-P. I really enjoy doing EMS but I'm curious where I can go that'll allow me to work as a LEO and medic. I've talked to a Maryland Trooper recruiter and that's an option. I've also  looked into BORSTAR but from what I'm seeing it looks like I would've been better off going straight into the boarder patrol out of the military instead of trying to go  from EMS to the BP. talked to my local sheriff office and they don't utilize tactical medics and don't allow "moonlighting" or holding down a second job. Curious to see what other options are out there. Thanks in advance everyone.



I made a post about BORSTAR in a thread awhile ago, can't really remember what the thread was called. I know you have to do a few years as a field agent before going to their school/academy. 

Most CHP officers have some sort of medical training. You have officers that are mainly trained to the first responder level and EMT that are in patrol cars. CHP also has medics that will staff their helicopters. Also most SWAT teams here in So CAL have medics on the teams that are also officers.


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## EMDispatch (Nov 30, 2016)

MSP is dying for flight medics all the time. They have trouble with people wanting to go through their academy and be dual role personnel.

Like CALEMT said, unless BORSTAR has changed, it requires a minimum of several years as a standard officer, which would be 99.99% be on the US/Mexico border. You can then apply into what's essentially like an apprentice program to get into BORSTAR. Then you can try and specialize as a medical provider. It's been a few years since I looked but all of the BORSTAR medical teams were only on the US/Mexico border, but they were piloting a air rescue unit out of Buffalo, NY. The timeframe I was given was 5 years minimum to get a shot at starting into BORSTAR.


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## NysEms2117 (Dec 1, 2016)

EMDispatch said:


> It's been a few years since I looked but all of the BORSTAR medical teams were only on the US/Mexico border, but they were piloting a air rescue unit out of Buffalo, NY.


If im not mistaken, and i very well may be, because buffalo is quite a ways from me. The NYS NAT'L guard, is trying to branch to help with civilian stuff(flights ect). I also think that "Sector Buffalo" of the USCG, is taking medical/LE flights for that region now, I know Maritime Enforcement guys, usually fly with the Rescue Divers/swimmer/medic to supply the "firepower".


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## EMDispatch (Dec 2, 2016)

NysEms2117 said:


> If im not mistaken, and i very well may be, because buffalo is quite a ways from me. The NYS NAT'L guard, is trying to branch to help with civilian stuff(flights ect). I also think that "Sector Buffalo" of the USCG, is taking medical/LE flights for that region now, I know Maritime Enforcement guys, usually fly with the Rescue Divers/swimmer/medic to supply the "firepower".



 Makes sense I've been out of the Erie, PA area for over 5 years now. A lot of the BORSTAR mission doesn't really mesh with the northern border, at least not the northeast.


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## CANMAN (Dec 5, 2016)

MSP ain't all it is cracked up to be, got the teeshirt and I am glad I switched to private HEMS for many reasons. About 3 years after I quit they put one into the ground and my buddy who was a Trooper Medic got killed, along with 2 other crew and a patient. What they did after the crash made me realize I made the right choice by leaving and going civilian HEMS. You really have to assess what you want to do, because very few places do both LE and EMS work well. The MSP medics are MD Paramedics with RSI, that is all. Now with almost every jurisdiction in MD having paid ALS the work is often done when they get there and they are a transport vehicle. In my opinion they are over utilized and do not provide a higher level of care then the regular EMS units, meanwhile higher level of care private HEMS aircraft are often closer and not utilized due to the monopoly MSP has on scene missions. They do some LE work, and even fewer hoist missions. Some of the guys moonlight as STATE team medics as well (MSP's swat team).

As far as BORDSTAR goes, I believe you have to be bilingual to work for them because I looked into it at one time. I may be wrong about that.

I would decide what you're interested in MORE, Law enforcement, or medicine, and then let me know and I could give you some potentially better options.


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## VentMonkey (Dec 5, 2016)

CANMAN said:


> MSP ain't all it is cracked up to be, got the teeshirt and I am glad I switched to private HEMS for many reasons. About 3 years after I quit they put one into the ground and my buddy who was a Trooper Medic got killed, along with 2 other crew and a patient. What they did after the crash made me realize I made the right choice by leaving and going civilian HEMS. You really have to assess what you want to do, because very few places do both LE and EMS work well. *The MSP medics are MD Paramedics with RSI, that is all*. Now with almost every jurisdiction in MD having paid ALS the work is often done when they get there and they are a transport vehicle. In my opinion they are over utilized and do not provide a higher level of care then the regular EMS units, meanwhile higher level of care private HEMS aircraft are often closer and not utilized due to the monopoly MSP has on scene missions. They do some LE work, and even fewer hoist missions. Some of the guys moonlight as STATE team medics as well (MSP's swat team).


 This is the impression I had from what I have seen only, no first hand experience; and sorry to hear about your buddy.


CANMAN said:


> As far as BORDSTAR goes, I believe you have to be bilingual to work for them because I looked into it at one time. I may be wrong about that.


On the southern end of the country this is in fact true, and goes for all of their border patrol agents in this sector. In fact, last I checked they actually had a written test of sorts they put you through.


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## CALEMT (Dec 5, 2016)

CANMAN said:


> As far as BORDSTAR goes, I believe you have to be bilingual to work for them because I looked into it at one time. I may be wrong about that.



No you're right. If you're a native Spanish speaker you take a test to prove that you are. If you're not then you'll take classes during the academy(?) training(?) for field agent.


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## NysEms2117 (Dec 19, 2016)

I just found this extremely funny and found the meme 







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MPTOP (Mar 31, 2017)

I know this was posted several months ago, but just saw it.  Davis County Sheriff's Office in Utah, just north of Salt Lake City, runs Paramedic Deputies.  All deputies, with the exception of the civil and jail division, are Paramedics.  They respond to law enforcement calls in the unincorporated county areas, and run ALS response with the various city ambulances throughout the county.  Last I heard they are hurting big time for people.  If you're already paramedic certified, they will put you through the Academy.  Something to consider


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## NysEms2117 (Apr 1, 2017)

MPTOP said:


> I know this was posted several months ago, but just saw it.  Davis County Sheriff's Office in Utah, just north of Salt Lake City, runs Paramedic Deputies.  All deputies, with the exception of the civil and jail division, are Paramedics.  They respond to law enforcement calls in the unincorporated county areas, and run ALS response with the various city ambulances throughout the county.  Last I heard they are hurting big time for people.  If you're already paramedic certified, they will put you through the Academy.  Something to consider


Do they wear both hats at the same time? Or do they do LEO work for 1/2 the shift, and get rid of their firearms/tasers/batons/handcuffs/OC spray and become medics for the other half?


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## VentMonkey (Apr 1, 2017)

NysEms2117 said:


> Do they wear both hats at the same time? Or do they do LEO work for 1/2 the shift, and get rid of their firearms/tasers/batons/handcuffs/OC spray and become medics for the other half?


http://www.co.davis.ut.us/sheriff/divisions/patrol/paramedics


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## NysEms2117 (Apr 1, 2017)

VentMonkey said:


> http://www.co.davis.ut.us/sheriff/divisions/patrol/paramedics


Thanks. As for a job I think I'll pass though


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## SAREMT (Apr 17, 2017)

California Highway Patrol utilizes paramedic/LEO's on some of their helicopters as flight officers. I know a guy who was a paramedic flight officer for many years. He saw ALOT of good trauma at the off road vehicle parks, and they worked with us alot on rescues in the backcountry. They will also allow you to work a part time EMS job. I know of another chippy/flight medic who does that.


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## Agg04 (May 8, 2017)

being a swat medic is a dream of mine. to be realistic, I know its rare though. Good luck man! Hope you find something.


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## chrls (May 8, 2017)

SAREMT said:


> California Highway Patrol utilizes paramedic/LEO's on some of their helicopters as flight officers. I know a guy who was a paramedic flight officer for many years. He saw ALOT of good trauma at the off road vehicle parks, and they worked with us alot on rescues in the backcountry. They will also allow you to work a part time EMS job. I know of another chippy/flight medic who does that.



I do exactly this. All but one of our 8 air units across the state are what we call "Regional Programs" where we do the normal airborne law enforcement stuff as well as SAR/Medevac. Our one unit that doesn't do the SAR/medevac is in the Los Angeles area and are referred to as a Metro Program. 

Anybody who works on our helicopters/airplanes as either a pilot or flight officer is a police officer with us first and remains one while working in an air unit. While we are all still police officers the nature of our job removes us from the day to day of responding to calls, writing tickets, arresting people, most report writing, and the like so it depends on what you want out of your job. 

I also work part time as a medic for my local 911 service. 

It's a good job as long as you can get through our hiring process, academy, and a few years as a road officer before being able to apply for a spot flying. 

If anybody has questions about what we do feel free to message me/reply here if it's related.


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## CALEMT (May 9, 2017)

chrls said:


> If anybody has questions about what we do feel free to message me/reply here if it's related.



Dont do it, he can be VERY convincing...


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## jeffro1904 (Jun 7, 2017)

randomly came across the thread...

I'm a BP K9/EMT so I could shed light on all the border patrol talk.

If you  are interested in BORSTAR you need to complete your probationary period first. Basically that means you will pass the academy and push traffic at your assigned station first. I believe it changed from 2 years to just 1 year but don't quote me as that changed since I got in. Then you will have to wait for the BORSTAR "academy" to open up, which is typically once a year, and TRY OUT. Good luck! I hope you are part fish because they hit the pool, ocean and "fast water" hard.

BORSTAR is getting more and more EMT-P level agents and they have at least one agent with BORTAC for their ops. If you want to lean toward the tactical side, I'd suggest BORTAC with previously established medical background. Either team will maintain your EMS cert. BORSTAR works more routine field traffic and can be supplemental aircrew members that are dropped at the scene of rural med/trauma event. They also have multi purpose, human remain detection (HRD) K9 teams.

If anyone has anymore questions, not wall/ Trumpty dump related, I'll do my best to answer.


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## NysEms2117 (Jun 13, 2017)

@jeffro1904 Since your already inside "federal agent land", hopefully you can answer this better then i can since im only state atm. How would previous experiences in other federal agencies laterally transfer- IE DEA FAST team, FBI HRT, US marshals FGTF, all of which have members that are medically trained. **I am not nor have i ever been on any of the aforementioned teams** However, I am with NYS "specialty teams".


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## CanadianBagel (Jun 9, 2018)

The LASD and NYPD both have full time SWAT Medics. The LASD has medical helicopters, and the NYPD has a couple of ambulances. Tulsa PD has quite a few police medics too. Dallas PD has at least three reservists who are physicians and I know two work SWAT.
I personally would love to just be a full time medic and a reserve police officer, serving as a sworn SWAT medic. Pretty much all SWAT Medics in Florida and Arizona are full time medics who become reserve police officers. It’s a much better idea than having unarmed, non sworn medics on SWAT, in my humble opinion. I would probably give up a winning lottery ticket for that guys job, tbh. I REALLY want to be a Tactical medic.
Here’s a video of one, if anyone is interested!
https://www.clickorlando.com/video/brevard-firefighter-doubles-as-swat-paramedic


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## 06Unltd (Aug 14, 2018)

CANMAN said:


> MSP ain't all it is cracked up to be, got the teeshirt and I am glad I switched to private HEMS for many reasons. About 3 years after I quit they put one into the ground and my buddy who was a Trooper Medic got killed, along with 2 other crew and a patient. What they did after the crash made me realize I made the right choice by leaving and going civilian HEMS. You really have to assess what you want to do, because very few places do both LE and EMS work well. The MSP medics are MD Paramedics with RSI, that is all. Now with almost every jurisdiction in MD having paid ALS the work is often done when they get there and they are a transport vehicle. In my opinion they are over utilized and do not provide a higher level of care then the regular EMS units, meanwhile higher level of care private HEMS aircraft are often closer and not utilized due to the monopoly MSP has on scene missions. They do some LE work, and even fewer hoist missions. Some of the guys moonlight as STATE team medics as well (MSP's swat team).
> 
> As far as BORDSTAR goes, I believe you have to be bilingual to work for them because I looked into it at one time. I may be wrong about that.
> 
> I would decide what you're interested in MORE, Law enforcement, or medicine, and then let me know and I could give you some potentially better options.



I wanted to update this to anyone who may be looking at MSP.

Currently, MSP flies the Augusta Westland 139.  Its a phenomenal ship.  Maryland State currently has 12 AW-139's staged at 8 locations throughout the state.  Each shift per helo has 2 fully trained pilots (including low visability operations, which the previous pilot did not have).  The pilots are pilots only.  

Each Helo also has 2 trooper medics per shift.  These are fully trained MSP trooper paramedics.   They can respond anywhere in the state from hanger to scene in under 20 minutes. They also mutual aid to Pa, Wv and Del.

The helos do law enforcement when requested/as needed to local jurisdictions.  The fly a ton of HEMS.  There is no charge to the patient for HEMS flights as their funding comes from automobile registrations and renewals.  When not flying, trooper medics are performing law enforcement duties from marked and unmarked cruisers (inclimate weather).

Hoist operations are conducted on a regular basis whether it be the mountains to the west or plucking someone from the water in Great Falls or the Chesapeake Bay.

MSP desperately needs trooper medics.  The hangup is you have to attend their police academy which is a lot like Marine Corps boot camp.  You have to live at the training academy and get good grades.  I think the academy lasts 6 months.  Drug testing is frequent throughout the academy as well.  

If I was younger, and could do it all over again, I would jump at the chance.   MSP's Aviation unit is the best in the country.


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## Jim37F (Aug 14, 2018)

Sounds fairly impressive. In an alternate universe where I didnt move to Honolulu fir Fire, I had a budding interest in Law Enforcement...I could see myself moving to Maryland to try out for that (I was starting to get tired of California lol)


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## CANMAN (Aug 18, 2018)

06Unltd said:


> I wanted to update this to anyone who may be looking at MSP.
> 
> Currently, MSP flies the Augusta Westland 139.  Its a phenomenal ship.  Maryland State currently has 12 AW-139's staged at 8 locations throughout the state.  Each shift per helo has 2 fully trained pilots (including low visability operations, which the previous pilot did not have).  The pilots are pilots only.
> 
> ...



No offense man but get the MSP weaner out of your mouth, they are FAR from the best in the country.... I can actually name 10 HEMS programs right now which put them to shame in capabilities, and most importantly best patient care delivery, leaving the LE factor out of it. I'm assuming you live in MD as most of your information is correct, but some is not. Bottom line is the same wacker firefighter's that like to jerk off to how big MSP's aircraft are will later complain about how much taxes they're paying outta their paycheck. There is alot of behind the scenes cost that ARE NOT covered by the tag renewal fee's that you clearly are unaware of. What they did AFTER the crash said alot about their safety program. They went out and bought Ferrari's when Toyota Camry's would have allowed them to complete all their missions with brand new aircraft and an increased safety margin, at a MASSIVE cost to the taxpayer's. Coupled with the fact they had no intention of upgrading to dual pilots, and actually filed for a wavier which the FAA turned down was the reason they went dual pilot post crash. That cost wasn't factored into the equation, and guess what we paid for that as well. They are far from the best service or anything close to cutting edge in HEMS now a days and there are plenty of times where they will dispatch an MSP aircraft that is 30+ minutes away vs. using a closer private service aircraft which isn't doing whats best for the patient if they truly need a HEMS flight. They provide MD Paramedic level care only with RSI component and do less then 50 hoist missions a year total throughout the entire program which equates to less than 5 per year per base, because most are out of Trooper 3 in Frederick. The worst part about alot of the current people is they actually think they're the absolute best, and don't know what they don't know. They have some of the cockiest provider's (with alot of the newer folk being very light in prior field time before MSP) with piss poor customer service interactions with the ground provider's they serve, and the "we are the best" mentality is bred from day 1 in the academy.

I had the privilege of training one of their people who has been in the division for a long time and had seen all the changes over the years. I say privilege because he wasn't programmed like the rest of them and was eager to learn and just a stand up guy all around. He came to work for my previous service looking to expand his knowledge and setup a part time gig that could become full time when he was due to retire in a few years. Initially his lack of knowledge for management of anything other then trauma scene runs was significant. He was humble and honest about what he lacked in, and worked hard to complete orientation and went on to graduate and is currently still flying part-time with that program. During our time he made it very apparent as someone who has been around a long time that the program isn't headed in the right direction and there's a ton of cost that the MD taxpayer's never hear about.

If I had a dollar for every MD wacker who drooled at MSP aviation I could have retired by now. There's a reason they are desperately in need of medics and pilots. It's not all rainbows and butterflies and just highlights the fact that most people are distracted by shiny paint schemes and perceived superiority vs. the things that really matter.


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## CALEMT (Aug 19, 2018)

So don't drink the MSP Kool-aid?


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## CANMAN (Aug 19, 2018)

CALEMT said:


> So don't drink the MSP Kool-aid?



You caught the drift


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## hpclayto (Oct 24, 2019)

I realize this thread is pretty old but I just joined. Any other LEO guys and gals on here? Our department is getting a TACMED program up and running, still in the early development stages.


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## PotatoMedic (Oct 24, 2019)

hpclayto said:


> I realize this thread is pretty old but I just joined. Any other LEO guys and gals on here? Our department is getting a TACMED program up and running, still in the early development stages.


Not leo but my agency has a tacmed team.  My advice would be to reach out to agencies who have them and ask for whatever resources you need to set up the program.


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## hpclayto (Oct 24, 2019)

PotatoMedic said:


> Not leo but my agency has a tacmed team.  My advice would be to reach out to agencies who have them and ask for whatever resources you need to set up the program.



That’s  the plan. I think having LEO only teams vs teams with civilian EMS personnel on them is starting to become more popular but I still don’t know of many places that are set up like that.


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## CCCSD (Oct 24, 2019)

LEO Teams are the correct way to do this. Civilians bring many issues with them. Reach out to NTOA and ask for their TEMS papers and guidance.


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