# Boston Medflight



## Ryanpfd (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok so im a new basic, Im going to school for a nursing degree. I want to be a boston flight medic or maybe a flight nurse. My plan is to get my medic after having some expiernce. first off can you actually make a career out of being a strictly a medic? and how realistic is this goal?:glare:


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 19, 2008)

Well, let me put it this way. I returned back to being a Paramedic after being a a flightnurse. Yeah, I am making more money. 

R/r 911


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## Ryanpfd (Nov 19, 2008)

I also know its not about the money, but what is starting pay for  a flight medic does it differ from a regular medic?


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## alphatrauma (Nov 19, 2008)

Ryanpfd said:


> I also know its not about the money, but what is starting pay for  a flight medic does it differ from a regular medic?



Pay will depend on too many unknown variables, but who cares about the money... how cool will it be when you're out and people ask what you do for a living. That, in and of itself, is worth it's weight in gold


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## VentMedic (Nov 19, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Well, let me put it this way. I returned back to being a Paramedic after being a a flightnurse. Yeah, I am making more money.
> 
> R/r 911


 
Rid, I gotta say you are not the norm. 

Our Flight RNs' wage is definitely higher. The Paramedics also know that if they want that the title and wage of the Flight RN, they must finish nursing school (BSN) and get the equivalent of 3 - 5 years of fulltime work experience as an RN in the ICU/ED. This is even with the Paramedic cert and experience as a Flight Paramedic. 

If the flight program just does scene response and no interfacility, the requirements might be different. Some HEMS programs still just take a ground medic to accompany the patient with only a little extra helicopter safety training. 

The wages will vary with different flight programs and different parts of the country . It is also difficult to compare due to the different shifts that might be worked as in 12 vs 24 hours. 

Boston Medflight has a good program but it is very competitive. Like many good flight programs, they probably get hundreds of applications for the Paramedic that they must weed through just to get 5 decent candidates. There are usually few RN applications since many do not want to leave the ICUs or if hired, they find themselves picking up many extra hours in the hospital in addition to the helicopter just to stay current with the changing techology and the many new protocols appearing in medicine. Specialty teams may still be used because it is just impossible to master all the technology and medicine required for all patients.


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## boingo (Nov 19, 2008)

4 year degree prefered, Massachusetts certified EMT-P with at least 5 years experience.  www.bostonmedflight.org
Nurses require Bachelors degree, EMT, at least 5 years of CC/Emergency experience, CCRN or ACNPC, CEN or CFRN and the usual ACLS, PALS, NRP, etc...for both jobs.


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## VentMedic (Nov 19, 2008)

boingo said:


> 4 year degree prefered, Massachusetts certified EMT-P with at least 5 years experience. www.bostonmedflight.org
> Nurses require Bachelors degree, EMT, at least 5 years of CC/Emergency experience, CCRN or ACNPC, CEN or CFRN and the usual ACLS, PALS, NRP, etc...for both jobs.


 
Why the thumbs down?


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## boingo (Nov 19, 2008)

Don't know how that got there.  Great program.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Nov 19, 2008)

Woah, if those are the requirements for flight medics and flight nurses, what are the requirements for flight physicians?  Even if you just consider paediatric emergency medicine physicians, they are 22 out of college, 26 out of med school, 29 out of paediatric residency, and 32 out of PEM fellowship (required for all PEM physicians).  By the time you get the amount of experience they want, you'll be in your 40's!


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## alphatrauma (Nov 19, 2008)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> By the time you get the amount of experience they want, you'll be in your 40's!



Yeppers

All of the flight crews that I've seen, coming through the ER, were easily well on their way to 50. I wonder what the age maximum is?


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## VentMedic (Nov 19, 2008)

These requirements are not anything out of the ordinary for RNs (and RRTs) working in progressive ICUs. Almost all of our ICU RNs (and RRTs) have a Bachelors degree. Credentialing in a specialty certification like CCRN, which requires documented work experience, is recommended if not required. ACLS, PALS and NRP are just standard certs for many healthcare professionals. Five years is also not that much experience. Many of our RNs did not consider themselves experience to apply for flight until after 10 years. Of course, they had an insight on the extensive stabilization that may be required of some patients especially those being transferred interfacility. The initial honeymoon period some rely on in the field to get the patient to the ED has expired. 

When hiring Paramedics, we have to evaluate each individually, as with some RNs. Some may have no current intubation experience or run very few calls or may have not been the lead Paramedic. Some applicants have also worked in systems that only use the King and not ETI or they have very restricted protocols.

A local Children's hospital found out the difference in Paramedic experience the hard way the first time they started using Paramedics. On hire the question was "Can you intubate children?" The Paramedic took that to mean was it within his scope of practice. He failed to elaborate that he had only "experience" on a manikin. When a situation arose that required intubation of a toddler, the results were not good. Since that time the interview process is different as is their assumption about Paramedics and their experience.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Nov 19, 2008)

alphatrauma said:


> Yeppers
> 
> All of the flight crews that I've seen, coming through the ER, were easily well on their way to 50. I wonder what the age maximum is?


For whatever reason, I don't see flight physcians here as being that old, but maybe they just take care of themselves well!  One of the Profs of PEM here is a Flight Physician and I'm almost certain she is not 40.  I'll have to look up her CV/Degree Date next time I'm over there!


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 19, 2008)

Wow! You make it seem that being 40's and 50's are old! I challenge a foot race against most and  definitely putting in working hours in clinical care against most 20 year old.

Sorry, one really should have about ten years experience before even considering themselves as experienced. Most ER residents I have worked with is the minimum age of 29 and most are in the mid 30-s to some in their 50's. 

Remember, on Critical Care Transports you are receiving the worse of the worse patients. In fact I have found much harder than emergency patients that will either live or die, critically ill is on the teeter totter of near death for a long period of time. 

Education is not just a statement but is required as well accompanying experience. Much more than the "I read about this" type. How many triple A's have you taken care of or end stage organ failure patients? Nipride drips, balloon pumps, Ventricle (brain), pericardial drains? Especially when considering altitude (even in pressurized aircraft) which most helicopters are not. 

R/r 911


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## VentMedic (Nov 19, 2008)

I posted these case studies on an earlier thread about situations that you might encounter on interfacility transport.

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=8948


And one more from the LVAD thread:
http://www.universitymedevac.com/downloads/LVAD.pdf


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## Jaybro713 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ryanpfd said:


> Ok so im a new basic, Im going to school for a nursing degree. I want to be a boston flight medic or maybe a flight nurse. My plan is to get my medic after having some expiernce. first off can you actually make a career out of being a strictly a medic? and how realistic is this goal?:glare:



Just to let you know...In the State of Massachusetts if you have your RN and you're a certified EMT-B you can test out of the paramedic program and just take the medic tests and then you are a medic.  In other words you don't have to actually take paramedic Classes.  It's a really cool system.

I had a nurse in my EMT program that was doing that exact thing.  She is now an EMT-P.


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jaybro713 said:


> .  It's a really cool system.
> 
> I had a nurse in my EMT program that was doing that exact thing.  She is now an EMT-P.



I disagree. They are two separate professions and educational systems. Does MA allow a Paramedic to test out the RN level the same way. Then if not, it is definitely not cool!

R/r 911


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## Jaybro713 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I disagree. They are two separate professions and educational systems. Does MA allow a Paramedic to test out the RN level the same way. Then if not, it is definitely not cool!
> 
> R/r 911



Honestly I don't know the answer to your question.  I only know that if you are an RN and you take and pass the EMT-B class and state tests that you can then test out of the EMT-P program by taking all of the State tests.


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## mycrofft (Nov 20, 2008)

*Too darmn much cross-certification.*

Paramedic and nurse are two different deals. That is an example of politics and market pressures driving medical practice. Darn them to heck.


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## VentMedic (Nov 20, 2008)

mycrofft said:


> Paramedic and nurse are two different deals. That is an example of politics and market pressures driving medical practice. Darn them to heck.


 
No, that is a loop hole in the EMS statutes. The RN many have to provide other documentation of additional training prior to taking the exam. Florida also allows RNs to challenge the state Paramedic exam after completing EMT-B. 

Usually the only nurses that take the Paramedic exam are experienced and have another goal in mind such as satisfying an old Florida statute about scene response personnel for a flight program. 
Not many RNs are going to flock to be a Paramedic so your job is safe. RNs also have enough work keeping up with the CEUs in their own profession and the Paramedic would bring little benefit to their jobs in the hospital. Those are are involved in CCU/ICU/ED and the Rapid Response Teams in the hospitals have their own training, education and certifications. In most states, an RN (or RRT) on Flight or specialty teams does not need the Paramedic cert to do all of the "skills" a paramedic performs.

Considering the quality of some Paramedic programs or states that only require 500 - 700 hours of training or 3 months medic mill certs, why should an RN waste time with a Paramedic program in the backroom of a fire station? After you take out the very basic A&P, the very basic Pharmacology, basic EKG and IV skills, there is little left but the coffee clinicals and the sleepovers at an ALS engine station to get a quick 24 hours of clinicals. At least Florida has now been reinforcing that ALS clinicals should be done on a vehicle capable of patient transport.

Thus, a 3 month medic mill education in no way translates into a two or four year nursing degree with well over 1000 patient contact hours for clinicals.

By the way some Paramedics brag they do all the "skills" a nurse does in the ED, you realize how little they understand nursing, education and skills.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Nov 20, 2008)

well, i didn't mean it that way!  But I meant it was old to be just finishing the stepping blocks to get to that destination.  With 4 years of premed classes before that adds up to 19 years to get to that point if you ran it straight through!  I'm not saying it shound't be this way, it should, and that those people that run on the most critical of the crtically ill have this kind of training spanning 2 decads is truly remarkable and respectable.

I certainly hope that these flight physician's pay grades reflect this though.  That's hundreds of thousands of dollars into their training!


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## Guardian (Nov 21, 2008)

Ryanpfd said:


> Ok so im a new basic, Im going to school for a nursing degree. I want to be a boston flight medic or maybe a flight nurse. My plan is to get my medic after having some expiernce. first off can you actually make a career out of being a strictly a medic? and how realistic is this goal?:glare:



A very small percentage goes on to fly in helicopters.  I don’t see the big deal myself; basic physics makes the thing go up.  It’s just a way to get to and from a location.  Obviously, most don’t agree with me because there is great competition to ride in those dangerous little things.  What you’ve written is equivalent in our profession to a first year law student asking about becoming a Governor.  Focus all your attention to becoming an expert medical provider, and maybe one day you will have a shot.  If you don’t love medicine, then just quit now.


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## firecoins (Nov 22, 2008)

alphatrauma said:


> Yeppers
> 
> All of the flight crews that I've seen, coming through the ER, were easily well on their way to 50. I wonder what the age maximum is?



51 years old is the maximum.


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