# Has being an EMT changed how you look at life?



## jerellem (Mar 9, 2010)

Has being an EMT changed how you look at life? If so, how? I'm sure seeing death and saving lives HAS to have an effect on one mentally. How has it altered your look on life? I'm a recently certified EMT and can't wait to find a job and I was just curious.


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## MMiz (Mar 9, 2010)

It certainly has given me perspective in life, as have all of my life experiences.  Death and loss has a huge impact, but I find the positive calls where I was able to provide compassionate care most memorable.  Sometimes I amazed myself.  

EMS has not drastically changed my life or who I am as a person, but has given me invaluable knowledge and experience.  For many years I looked to my career to provide me direction and happiness, and while it has it many ways, I find that my career isn't who I am as a person, but instead what I do to make a living.

Good luck!


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## mycrofft (Mar 10, 2010)

*That about sums it up for me too.*

As with firefighting and law enforcement (and vacuum cleaner sales door to door) you are given the duty and privilige to see people at their best and worst, their moments of need and some moments of sheer horseapples. The public and your co workers will get the same opportunity regarding you.
Big thing is don't get all melodramatic about it, and remember no matter how much you see, someone else out there has seen more.


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## ZVNEMT (Mar 10, 2010)

seeing how Nursing Homes staff cares very little for the well-being of the people depending on their care... I have alot less faith in people. I've also noticed that when people do something, they feel like they deserve a reward for doing what any decent human would have done... yea... 

on the other hand... I have a greater appreciation for the time I've got. seeing a 26 y/o, generally healthy girl drop dead on a bus got me thinking about that. "Enjoy every sandwich."


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## Seaglass (Mar 10, 2010)

EMS reminds me that if I'm not freezing and in pain, soaked in bodily fluids, or dealing with something horribly tragic, it's still a pretty good day. It's made me more humble. There's a lot about medicine that I really don't know, and I'm nowhere near as quick as I am with other things. That's the good side. 

It also makes me more impatient and cynical, and inclined to dismiss problems that don't involve serious illness, injury, or death, especially when they aren't my own. Getting tougher has its downfalls, and takes a toll on relationships. That's the bad side.


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 10, 2010)

*I will never allow myself or any family member to be left in the bottom 99% of nursing homes*

One hand it can make you very cynical (low pay, interactions with crappy SNFs/patients, long hours) but if you are able to see past these things and appreciate the fact that as a low-paid, barely-trained EMT, you can still have a positive effect on peoples lives through your short interactions, then it can still be rewarding and enjoyable (run-on much?)

RULE NUMBER 32: Enjoy the small things.


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## EMSLaw (Mar 10, 2010)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> *I will never allow myself or any family member to be left in the bottom 99% of nursing homes*



Amen to that.  One thing EMS has certainly done for me is cement my desire to jump off a high building before I wind up in a "skilled" nursing facility.


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## ZVNEMT (Mar 10, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> Amen to that.  One thing EMS has certainly done for me is cement my desire to jump off a high building before I wind up in a "skilled" nursing facility.



to be fair, there are some excellent facilities, though they are rare... and expensive....


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## EMSLaw (Mar 10, 2010)

ZVNEMT said:


> to be fair, there are some excellent facilities, though they are rare... and expensive....



I'm sure there are, but the odds are against you.  And I always worry about what's being done to grandma and grandpa when little Johnny isn't there visiting.  It's probably unfair on my part, but I've seen and heard too many horror stories to avoid the leap to judgment.


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## LucidResq (Mar 10, 2010)

I think it's made me more open-minded and tolerant. Through treating people of all different socioeconomic statuses, education levels, ethnic groups, subcultures, etc... I've seen a very human side of people I otherwise wouldn't. 

WWII vets, Bhutanese refugees, a young single mom of 3 who's a truck driver and cowgirl, kids with autism, PhDs, a woman who had traveled the world as a famous, professional dancer for over 20 years... these are some of the people who stick out in my mind.


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## VentMedic (Mar 10, 2010)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> *I will never allow myself or any family member to be left in the bottom 99% of nursing homes*


 
Let's talk about how this would change YOUR life to fulfill this promise since so many have this same opinion but probably are too young to even see the realty of such a life changing event.

For taking care of your family member, you need a house or apartment that is easily accessible. The hospital is not going to hold your family member while you get permits and build ramps or knock down a wall to expand a living area. If you choose to take your family member home anyway, you may need the services of an ambulance rather than a WC van for every appointment your family member has. Your family member may then become that dreaded BS call that requires carrying down stairs every week just to go to the doctor. 

You may also have to give up your career or ask you spouse to quit their job just so there will be someone to provide 24/7 care to your family member...or to you if that is the situation. Some even have made their children quit college to care for their grandparent. Some may also spend their life's savings after quiting a job and then have little for their own future or that of their children's. Single people may even give up a chance for marriage and children to care for their family member for many years. 

Some elderly people are very appreciative of the sacrifices but are also very sensitive to the changes and hardships they have caused. That is when they realize they are now a burden to their family. The family may start to show their own resentment, even if unintentionally, from the stresses of less earning power and giving up opportunities for their own lives. 

Now for a short term situation such as hospice or comfort care where it is only a few weeks or just days, that is different as Family Medical Leave may apply. 

Next time you do pick up a patient who is being cared for at home, look deeper into the changes within the living situation. 



SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> One hand it can make you very cynical (low pay, interactions with crappy SNFs/patients, long hours) but if you are able to see past these things and appreciate the fact that as a low-paid, barely-trained EMT, you can still have a positive effect on peoples lives through your short interactions, then it can still be rewarding and enjoyable (run-on much?)


 
There are still many good nurses and CNAs at the crappy SNFs with the crappy patients regardless of appearances. First, patients in SNFs are generally there because they need assistance and may not be able to help making a mess with their bowel movements. Second, these CNAs and nurses are going against the odds with maybe 4 health care providers for every 100 patients. Often one CNA will have over 20 patients to care for during 8 or 12 hours attempting to meet the many needs of a long term patient. Be very, very thankful you only have one patient at a time and for only a few minutes. Try to do the very best you can with that patient in such a short time. For some patients your own attitude may be no different than that of those you consider to be crappy in the nursing homes. You could also cut those in the nursing homes some slack because you don't know what type of shift they are having and how many difficult patients they are trying to manage. Some EMTs complain over and over for days about "one" bad patient and expect everyone to be sympathetic or cut them some slack. Nursing homes are now given an big task with little funding coming through. In some states, especially California, the staff at these facilities work without knowing where their next paycheck is coming from since that state is broke and not always paying for MediCal during budget disputes. If you are still getting a paycheck in California, consider yourself very lucky. 

Look closer at the jobs of the many health care providers that make up a system or that of any other profession. You may find yourself very lucky to have the ability drive around to pick out a restaurant that gives large discounts to EMS. You may also be very lucky to have a job where the station has a computer, large screen TV, kitchen and a bed for you to earn money sleeping. Appreciate the fact you may only have to get out of bed once, while on the clock, to do a short crappy SNF transport that still gives you a paycheck. Yes, there are many positive things about working in EMS.

Also, when you think you have a BS patient from a nursing home, try to look at what their life had been before becoming old or disabled. We're going to see alot of disabled veterans from the wars this country is involved in. Unfortunately, some will become those BS homeless patients who get the ambulance called for them every time they fall down from losing their balance occasionally due to a head injury or substance abuse problems. Appreciate your own health as it may not take much more than a missed step at a curb or stairs to put your into that same situation.


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## MTEMTB (Mar 10, 2010)

In some ways.
Live like your going to die today.
Hug your family often.
Tell your friends how much they mean to you.


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## firetender (Mar 11, 2010)

*Only in every way!*



jerellem said:


> Has being an EMT changed how you look at life?



Everything I learned, I learned in the back of an ambulance. It propelled me into forty years of exploration of the healing arts.  It was a foundational aspect of who I've become. And, in answer to your question, it didn't change how I looked at life, it just caused me to look deeper and further.


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## Buzz (Mar 11, 2010)

It's made my outlook on everyday life kind of... boring.

Little things that would have people talking for weeks now seem common for me.

On the other hand, retelling a story about some of the more crazy stuff I've responded to or witnessed can just blow someone's mind.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Mar 11, 2010)

MMiz said:


> It certainly has given me perspective in life, as have all of my life experiences. Death and loss has a huge impact, but I find the positive calls where I was able to provide compassionate care most memorable. *Sometimes I amazed myself.*
> 
> EMS has not drastically changed my life or who I am as a person, but has given me invaluable knowledge and experience. For many years I looked to my career to provide me direction and happiness, and while it has it many ways, I find that my career isn't who I am as a person, but instead what I do to make a living.
> 
> Good luck!


 
Amen. I used to hate seeing other peoples blood, body fluids and puke. Now it doesn't bug me in the least. (OK, the puke still gets me a little......)

Also, just seeing how some people live has made me very greatful for what I have and how I live.

When you have seen people torn apart by a tractor PTO or had their pelvis crushed by a tree, suddenly it doesn't seem so bad when I can't go skiing 'cause I have a test, or I can't have what I wanted for lunch.

It has made me more safety aware. I could never drive anywhere without a seatbelt since I have seen some persons head destroyed by a windshield. It taught me to keep my head on a swivel and always be aware of what is going on around you. 

And it taught me that even if you have limited training (like me being just an Intermediate) you can still have plenty of compassion, which while not as effective at killing pain as a narcotic, it can make someone's life seem a little less terrible and a little more bearable. There is a fine line between being professional and being jaded, between being compassionate and caring and actually getting drawn into their problems. It takes a while to learn these lines and I have definatly not mastered where they are yet.

But anyhow, good luck!


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## RescueYou (Mar 11, 2010)

Yeah....I now walk down the isles at Wal-Mart and pass a person and sometimes think "hmmm...nice pipes...."


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## Nick647 (Mar 11, 2010)

One reason I am going into EMS after high school is to gain some perspective on life a bit more.  There is always somebody out there who has it a lot worse then you and like some posts here has said, though you might be underpaid, your still doing something for the greater good.  I think that me experiencing certain things that people go through, big or small, and most importantly, making a difference, will make me look at life a little more clearer and that maybe life isnt so bad and it isnt but for me, i think it will take an experience to get that across.  I just hope to make a difference most importantly.


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## Tincanfireman (Mar 11, 2010)

Makes me appreciate that (from a perspective on the shady side of 50):

1. I don't have to wear a diaper
2. I can walk (and run!) unassisted
3. I can eat pretty much whatever I want
4. I can remember my grandchildren's names
5. My grandchildren don't think I'm "yucky"
6. My wife and I don't need to call 911 because one of us has fallen from the bed
7. No matter what kind of a crappy day I've had, my lot in life is infinitely better than some people who are younger than me
8. There are 50,000 additional variations on numbers 1-6 above.
9. I am blessed beyond words...


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## emt_irl (Mar 11, 2010)

its made me more mature and look differently on things.. like one example i wont speed as much in the car as i used to.... i think of the bigger picture


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## piranah (Mar 13, 2010)

emt_irl said:


> its made me more mature and look differently on things.. like one example i wont speed as much in the car as i used to.... i think of the bigger picture



I agree with the above....I find myself not taking chances I used to take without a second thought...I now find myself saying "can I afford something happening?"...and I look at life with a little more light even on the dark days.


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Let's talk about how this would change YOUR life to fulfill this promise since so many have this same opinion but probably are too young to even see the realty of such a life changing event.
> 
> Next time you do pick up a patient who is being cared for at home, look deeper into the changes within the living situation.
> 
> There are still many good nurses and CNAs at the crappy SNFs with the crappy patients regardless of appearances.



VentMedic,

I appreciate the insight.  I was only using the 99% hyperbole to get the point across, I understand that there are many situations where a SNF is the only option.  I know that there are decent SNFs but they are few and far between (in my experience).  I do understand the workers position, it wasn't fair for me to only say "crappy SNF workers" and I didn't mean to say that there are only crappy workers, just that there are some crappy workers, just as there are some crappy EMTS, nurses, doctors, or any profession.  There are also good workers in all of the above.  Since I have been an EMT I have been in many of the situations you have described above.  I've been with so many people who have been told they are now going to live in a SNF "until recovery" (read: rest of your days).  I've been with the family that was optimistically pursuing therapy and watched them get convinced to put the patient on hospice --this was probably one of the worst calls I have ran, hands down. I've ran those "BS house calls" with patients at all levels of health.  So I do see the other side, and I did not mean to dismiss it, just that I would do everything in my power to not put a family member in a SNF, unless the SNF was not plagued by some of the problems you have noted that cause poor care.

Don't let any of my posts deceive you.  I am VERY greatful for the job I have.  Hundreds of EMTs apply every month for the job I have.  It is also one of the easiest jobs I have ever had.  The pay isn't great, but heck, all we do is drive around and sleep, even when we run calls it isn't as bad as a lot of EMTs make it out to be.  I will not be staying here long, but I have greatly appreciated my time as an EMT and the insight into many different parts of health care.

Thanks you for the insightful topics though.  I try to always remain the most caring provider that I can be, but its easy to forget that when working with a lot of jaded and cynical EMTs.  I appreciate your refreshing post!


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## Sasha (Mar 13, 2010)

> There are still many good nurses and CNAs at the crappy SNFs with the crappy patients regardless of appearances. First, patients in SNFs are generally there because they need assistance and may not be able to help making a mess with their bowel movements. Second, these CNAs and nurses are going against the odds with maybe 4 health care providers for every 100 patients. Often one CNA will have over 20 patients to care for during 8 or 12 hours attempting to meet the many needs of a long term patient. Be very, very thankful you only have one patient at a time and for only a few minutes.



It is interesting you say that. At least 80% of the time I step foot in a nursing home, the patient is never ready. And where are the CNAs and LPNs? Sitting on their butts at the nurses station, working hard at ignoring the call bells going off.


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## viccitylifeguard (Mar 13, 2010)

Sasha said:


> It is interesting you say that. At least 80% of the time I step foot in a nursing home, the patient is never ready. And where are the CNAs and LPNs? Sitting on their butts at the nurses station, working hard at ignoring the call bells going off.



i completly agree with your comment  i had an ex that prided herself on how much of a quilt she could finish in a shift (day or night) that being said  i know that there are some extremly hard working cna's and lpn working their asses off to cover  for the lazy *** ones


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## Sasha (Mar 13, 2010)

viccitylifeguard said:


> i completly agree with your comment  i had an ex that prided herself on how much of a quilt she could finish in a shift (day or night) that being said  i know that there are some extremly hard working cna's and lpn working their asses off to cover  for the lazy *** ones



I am not saying there are not good CNAs or LPNs, but I hate how someone mentions a bad nursing home, and some treat it as CNAs and LPNs can't be bad... I have run into some fantastic nursing homes with a hard working staff that really care for their patients, and their patients are in good condition. 

However, they're the minority. The majority of them have staff that leave patients sitting in diapers full of feces for hours, who take 30 minutes to get off their butts at the nurses station and go get a concentrator for your patient on continuous O2, that is in the closet right across from the nursing station. 

That is one thing I don't miss from working IFT, getting screamed at about never being on time when you get there ten minutes late, yet the paperwork and patient isn't ready, and wont be ready for another 20, and they wonder why you run behind?


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

Sasha said:


> It is interesting you say that. At least 80% of the time I step foot in a nursing home, the patient is never ready. And where are the CNAs and LPNs? Sitting on their butts at the nurses station, working hard at ignoring the call bells going off.


 
Did you see them for the other 11 hours and 45 minutes of their shift?

Do you know if there are others answering the bells?

Do you know what each of their jobs are such as charting, telephones and meds? Ever call a nursing station and get pissed because no one was there to answer the phone? Can't always have it both ways. It is hard to please everyone and heaven forbid if they are with a patient and can't let you into the door immediately. You would have a real problem with that.




Sasha said:


> *I am not saying there are not good CNAs or LPNs, but I hate how someone mentions a bad nursing home, and some treat it as CNAs and LPNs can't be bad...* I have run into some fantastic nursing homes with a hard working staff that really care for their patients, and their patients are in good condition.
> 
> However, they're the minority. The majority of them have staff that leave patients sitting in diapers full of feces for hours, who take 30 minutes to get off their butts at the nurses station and go get a concentrator for your patient on continuous O2, that is in the closet right across from the nursing station.
> 
> That is one thing I don't miss from working IFT, getting screamed at about never being on time when you get there ten minutes late, yet the paperwork and patient isn't ready, and wont be ready for another 20, and they wonder why you run behind?


 
If you had actually read my post you would have seen it wasn't about good or bad nurses but rather the situation itself and the placement of a family member. 

How do you know how long that patient has sat in feces? I've changed diapers before only to have the patient have another bowel movement before I moved from the bedside. 

When was the last time you tried to change diapers on 20 patients 3 - 4 times each for 12 hours? And feed the patients. And bathe them.



SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> VentMedic,
> 
> I appreciate the insight. I was only using the 99% hyperbole to get the point across, I understand that there are many situations where a SNF is the only option. I know that there are decent SNFs but they are *few and far between (in my experience). *


 
Don't make it sound like there are no good nursing homes. As well, there are differences between SNFs, nursing homes and convalescent centers. Not every nursing home is a SNF. 

Both of you, Sasha and SanDiegoEMT7, get your CNA and work in a nursing home. Then come back and tell us how easy life in a nursing home is. 

The rest is not necessarily directed at both of you. 

No matter how rough you think your life is having to wait a few minutes for paperwork, the nurse that got distracted because of getting the transfer set up or answering a call light don't deserve crap from you each time. Nor do the patients. Have you ever seen all the paperwork that must be arranged and copied along with a report called to the other facility or doctor as well as the family? Do you actually know all the responsibilities of the nurse for that one patient transfer? Do you also know he/she puts themselves up for scrutiny with each transfer with risk of penalties on their license? 

As I have stated many times before, if you think there is blatant abuse or violations of code, document it and take it to the proper authorities. Don't rely on passing the responsibility on to the nurse at the ED. Assume that responsibility yourself and take all documentation to the state of Florida or California or whatever state you are from.

Everybody in healthcare has a rough job to do. If you go into a SNF or nursing home with a crap attitude, don't expect to be greeted well. You also don't know what type of crap the staff had to put up with from the previous IFT or EMS crews. We have actually had security and LEOs called to our SNF because of EMTs who started screaming at the staff and tossing paperwork around because they had to wait what they thought was an unreasonable amount of time. The security camera only showed their wait time to be 3 minutes before they lost it.

Also, remember these nursing homes may be home for the patient for now and they are making the best of it. Some know it is all they may have left and if they are left in the hospital for more than 7 days, they lose their "home" and must be placed in another facility. Did either of you know that? Do you know how patients are placed? It may not be up to the family at all. These patients may not appreciate you bad mouthing their facility or caregivers in front or over them. Too often some EMTs get caught up with their own agendas and forget the patient. Their diarrhea of the mouth does no one any good.

And SanDiegoEMT7, many of my above statements are general and not necessarily directed at you. If you truly do care, try to make someone's shift with a smile and some understanding. It might even get passed on to the rest of the staff and the other patients. Maybe the next time the staff will recognize you and smile as well and do try to get stuff moving along quicker. Burn out is in every profession and nursing homes have a tough job finding people to accept that responsibility. I can't imagine passing out over 300 medications in a shift and charting on 20 - 30 patients. That doesn't include the admissions, discharges and transfers which could be up to 50 a day even in the smaller facilities. Ambulances don't always provide the only means of transport luckily.


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## ah2388 (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Did you see them for the other 11 hours and 45 minutes of their shift?
> 
> Do you know if there are others answering the bells?
> 
> ...


I agree with the content of the post, if not perhaps the argument.

I always try to be polite and professional around nursing home staff.

With that being said, there is no excuse for the condition of some patients ive picked up at various homes.


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2010)

If you're running IFT, who cares if the transfer paperwork isn't ready yet? Sit down, take a break. Ask if you can borrow the patient's chart at the nursing station so you can start getting your demographics done even if they don't have a copy of the face sheet yet. If you can, package the patient and get all of the patient's belongings that are coming along together. Just because you don't have to do something to help out with your immediate patient doesn't mean you can't nor that you shouldn't. After all, if you're 6 hours into a 12 hour shift, it's not like you're going home after that call. 

I don't know, maybe I'm just the master of workplace zen, but a lot of the common complaints in EMS really seem to be something that should be water off a ducks back. This isn't to say that I haven't seen some nasty things in SNFs and hospitals (and, for the record, there's nothing unnasty about things like stage 4 decubs), or that I haven't seen things that shouldn't happen, but a lot of the common complaints I've seen on boards and heard from partners really should only get the reply of "chillax."


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## Sasha (Mar 13, 2010)

> . If you go into a SNF or nursing home with a crap attitude, don't expect to be greeted well.



I never go into any call with a crappy attitude. I am chipper, cheerful, and pleasent until someone gives me a reason not to be. I don't care what the past IFT or 911 crew has done to that nurse or cna. I do not let the last patient or staff I had dealt with affect the next, and neither should they.  I do not mind going to nursing homes for any problems at any time of the night. I do understand what may not be a "cool emergency" may be a problem requiring immediate attention. 



> Also, remember these nursing homes may be home for the patient for now and they are making the best of it. Some know it is all they may have left and if they are left in the hospital for more than 7 days, they lose their "home" and must be placed in another facility.



Seven days is lucky, some of the facilities here have a 24 hour bed hold policy, after 24 hours, the family or patient must pay a fee per day to hold their room or it may be given away. I don't see what that has to do with the staff? I am well aware of how patients are placed in nursing homes. I have had family placed in nursing homes. 



> How do you know how long that patient has sat in feces? I've changed diapers before only to have the patient have another bowel movement before I moved from the bedside.



Some could have been less, but when you have a family member tell you that you can't take a patient because they've been trying to get the CNA to change their diaper for the past hour and a half, you get a pretty good idea of how the care is for that day. When it happens more than once, you get a good idea for the care of that facility. 



> Did you see them for the other 11 hours and 45 minutes of their shift?



There have been certain facilities we visit multiple times a day to find them, each time, all sitting at the nurses station, neglecting patients and chatting it up about anything and everything not patient care or facility related. 



> These patients may not appreciate you bad mouthing their facility or caregivers in front or over them.



I have never bad mouthed a facility to or in front of a patient, with one exception. The nurse had screamed at our patient and literally told him to sit his @ss in bed and to shut up, because he asked about a wheelchair. I told our patient that I was sorry his nurse was such a (witch with a B) and that I hoped he could get out of there soon. When asked about a facility, if there is nothing good about the facility that I can think of, I tell them that I am not very familiar with it, and really couldn't comment.

There ARE bad nursing homes, there are bad CNAs, there are bad LPNs just like there are bad EMTs and bad paramedics.


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## Sasha (Mar 13, 2010)

> If you're running IFT, who cares if the transfer paperwork isn't ready yet? Sit down, take a break. Ask if you can borrow the patient's chart at the nursing station so you can start getting your demographics done even if they don't have a copy of the face sheet yet. If you can, package the patient and get all of the patient's belongings that are coming along together. Just because you don't have to do something to help out with your immediate patient doesn't mean you can't nor that you shouldn't. After all, if you're 6 hours into a 12 hour shift, it's not like you're going home after that call.



You know you are not going home, but it does start making you late for your next calls if you are getting delayed on scene for one call by 20-30 minutes because paperwork is not ready. Being late can jeapordize contracts, it can also mean that for those next six hours you don't get any kind of break. No where did I say anything about not helping out. However, you can't help out by doing the paperwork for them, and that is often times what is needed. I have no problem gathering belongings, changing, dressing, pulling IVs or feeding a patient if that will help keep on schedule, but many times it was paperwork.


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2010)

I definitely didn't mean to direct that at you Sash. 

Contracts? Meh, I can do my best to dazzle the facilities, but I can't make someone do something that isn't done. Nor can I handle more than one call at a time. Yea, it sucks to be running 6 hours straight, but there are ways to take a quick legitimate breather (e.g. when you have to eat, you have to eat), but if this is the normal situation then the company should be compensating by having more units on.


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## firetender (Mar 14, 2010)

*Back to the Original Question...*

...and relating to this most recent direction of the thread.

As a medic, I made the decision that were I to notice I was sliding downhill irreversibly, I'd make sure I had a gun. Then, if it looked like I'd end up in a Nursing Home like SO MANY of the Nursing Homes I brought patients in to -- or, for four years worked in myself! -- I'd use that gun on myself.

This whole Nursing Home thing is one of the biggest horrors in the profession. You can see in this Forum, there are threads about this with contributors from every state. Most of us would be okay with gory deaths, as long as they're relatively short, but who amongst us wants to imagine living (?) YEARS in one such hellhole?

To say sub-standard to sub-human care is not highly present in Nursing Homes (without going through the various initials, etc and classifications*) is living in denial. They are a reflection of a culture who has dismantled both the extended AND nuclear family and institutionalized (packaged and castrated and confined) its Elders along the way.

You just watch the next fifteen years or so as my generation, the Baby Boomers, make Nursing Homes the boom industry of the first half of the 21st Century.

How did the profession change me? It made me not want to live the way I saw so many people die.

* This is really loaded, but having been there myself I'll say that because as a whole Nursing Homes are chronically understaffed, compassion often takes a back seat to expediency. Yes, it easily becomes a job, and not a pleasant one at that. It is all about moving around flesh and its excrements. Bottom line, however, it easily becomes painful because (and here's where EMS gets involved) repeated exposure to such institutions makes it easy to believe there's a Hospital bed just waiting for YOU as well in one of these things. "There but for fortune." can be used as a way toward compassion or an excuse to don a very thick, hard and impenetrable shell.


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 14, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> ...but if this is the normal situation then the company should be compensating by having more units on.



Haha... that made me chuckle.


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2010)

Key word= should


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 14, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Key word= should



Haha... I know. There are so many companies in the OC-San Diego area most companies will do anything to maximize profits.  Makes for busy EMT workdays/nights.  But all is well, personally I'd rather run the calls then sit there in an idling rig.


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## MrBrown (Mar 14, 2010)

Hasn't really, to be honest always knew there were strange people out there.

Just got the chance to meet a few more of 'em.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Seven days is lucky, some of the facilities here have a 24 hour bed hold policy, after 24 hours, the family or patient must pay a fee per day to hold their room or it may be given away.* I don't see what that has to do with the staff?* I am well aware of how patients are placed in nursing homes. I have had family placed in nursing homes.


 
Do you really think RNs, LVNs and CNAs are that uncaring? Get your CNA and work in one of these facilities to see patients transferred throughtout a system for insurance and space reasons. It takes a toll on the staff to see this happen everyday when they see a patient's security totally torn apart and they have no control over it. 

As far as nurses sitting down, don't you generally sit when you chart?  Do you realize how much documentation is required for each patient?  Now multiply that by 20 - 30.  It is no secret that RNs spend more time charting then doing bedside care.  This is why some hospitals now have computerized bedside charting stations. 

As far as someone's comment about Stage IV decubs, it is very difficult to maintain any bedridden patient. The patient might come in as a Stage 1 just from the ambulance cot ride and develop overnight to a Stage 2. It then doesn't take much to progress to a Stage 4. If the RN tries to get the patient transferred to initiate wound care, that routine transfer might take awhile. If they call EMS or for an emergent transfer when the patient finally spikes a temp which can be a delayed response, they may be ridiculed by EMTs for "a temp and a bedsore" and will also have to respond to their employer why they waited or why they sent the patient. Either way, it is a no win situation for them or the patient. Too early and they face scrutiny and too late they jeopardize the patient and more scrutiny. It is a no win situation for staff. We even get patients with bad decubs start in the ICUs even with the beds that cost around $80k and low RNatient ratios. Long term patients break easily and we try everything we can to get the patients moving off the technology, out of the ICUs and throughout the system to hopefully a decent facility and much stronger. Unfortunately patients are being moved very rapidly and sometimes to rapidly out of the acute care facilities to make space. That puts an additional burden on SNF staff as they are now asked to do more with less.


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 14, 2010)

This argument could go on forever, because both sides hold weight.

I have seen good nurses that were unfazed by problems of the SNF/con-home/home-care situation.  I have seen good nurses that were fazed by it, little cynical but still provided good care.  I have seen good nurses that had totally given up on their situation and were not caring for the patient.  I have also seen downright negligent care by under trained staff on multiple occasions.

The SNF/con-home/home care situation depends on so many factors (number of patients, needs/type of patient, resources of the facility/home, training, general outlook, earnings, yadda yadda) that the spectrum of care available is wide and has many points on it.

I think that part of the negative attitude EMTs have towards SNFs/con homes is due to the fact that these are DEPRESSING PLACES.  These patients with mostly depressing stories of declining health have an effect on the EMTs (qualifier: hopefully) and so they expect a nurse/cna/ma that can go above and beyond to somehow counter act the sadness.  Instead they find a nurse that is many times over worked, sometimes under trained and most definitely more concerned with the massive workload ahead of them than pleasantries.  This divide will always exist as the current system is set up.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> The SNF/con-home/home care situation depends on so many factors (number of patients, needs/type of patient, resources of the facility/home, training, general outlook, earnings, yadda yadda) that the spectrum of care available is wide and has many points on it.


 


SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> The SNF/con-home/home care situation depends on so many factors (number of patients, needs/type of patient, resources of the facility/home, training, general outlook, earnings, yadda yadda) that the spectrum of care available is wide and has many points on it.


 
I don't really consider it an argument. However, it is especially sad with the US against THEM mentality that exists. Rather, I am trying to get some to see the many different aspects that exist in a LTC health system. Just *****ing without understanding all the factors or issues directly related to the health issues of LTC patient. 

Even if the resources are there, long term patients are still very difficult to manage and it is a specialty. Some look down on the nursing home RN but essentially they should have the skills and knowledge of a med-surg RN, a little ED RN knowledge, Rehab knowledge, geriatric specialist and the management of LTC patients. You won't find that many RNs and definitely not LVNs with all of that education and training especially at the wages a nursing home pays.

Christopher Reeve (Superman) died of sepsis from a decubitus ulcer. He had resources, including access to the best medical centers, and it still happened. However, for a high level quad that is vent dependent, 8 years is a good run but one would have thought a younger man of reasonable health could have lived longer. 

I recommend anyone to take a couple of CEs in geriatrics or any long term care areas. Granted it may seem boring and not like "emergency" stuff but since many of your IFTs are LTC patients it would be useful information to have. We have offered the classes even to individual ambulance services and unfortunately the attendance has been very little. As well, one should read some of the CMS/Mediare regulations to see how it pertains to IFTs and transfers. Understanding the different situations that health care providers work in and the responsibility of the facility as well as the government agencies will give you a better insight to the system rather than just nickpicking at the staff.

I also recommend future EMTs and Paramedics to take their education at a college that also offers a wide variety of other health care specialties. EMS providers have remained isolated too long with the trade school and should get to meet other professionals during their education process.  That might change how you look at your own profession and life.


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2010)

> Do you really think RNs, LVNs and CNAs are that uncaring? Get your CNA and work in one of these facilities to see patients transferred throughtout a system for insurance and space reasons. It takes a toll on the staff to see this happen everyday when they see a patient's security totally torn apart and they have no control over it.



But what does this have to do with nurses and CNAs not doing their jobs? It must be very nice where you are, and all the staff care about their patients. There were times where staff were happy to see a patient return, but there was also the eye roll, huff, and "they're back...". I have seen outright  cold hearted nurses and CNAs who have walked out on a patient asking to be turned so they could take pressure off a sore. Am I saying all are cold hearted? No. Am I saying that cold heartedness is limited to nursing homes? No. Am I saying it is impossible for EMTs and Paramedics to be cold hearted? No. There are good and bad in every profession, which is the concept you don't seem to be grasping. You seem to want to put all nursing home staff on a pedestal, and all problems that EMTs or Paramedics have with them are caused by the EMTs or Paramedics. If they get nasty attitude from the nursing home staff it's because of previously rude EMTs or Paramedic. Did you ever stop to think perhaps the EMTs and Paramedics are rude because of the previous nursing home staff they dealt with? Of course not. In your mind we all suck.

There are BAD nursing homes. There are GOOD nursing homes. Patients get sick. I understand that, and I understand there is nothing that they can do sometimes. But then there are some injuries and illnesses that are preventable.

If I wanted to be a CNA, I would have done so. I don't have a desire to be a CNA. I understand it's a difficult job, however I have no sympathy for them when a patient is being neglected and they are sitting doing absolutely nothing or standing around doing absolutely nothing but talking or whining.  And yes, I have placed calls on several local nursing homes to the abuse hotline.

[/Quote]As far as nurses sitting down, don't you generally sit when you chart? Do you realize how much documentation is required for each patient? Now multiply that by 20 - 30. It is no secret that RNs spend more time charting then doing bedside care. This is why some hospitals now have computerized bedside charting stations. [/QUOTE]

What does a CNA have to chart aside from writing down vitals? And no, when I did IFT, most of my reports were started, and finished, standing at the nurses station, or at the stretcher while going through the chart, or at the triage desk. What was done sitting was done in the ambulance at patient bedside. 

There is no excuse for when asking for help moving a patient over, the nurse or CNA you ask spends more time an energy finding that exact patient's CNA or telling you how to find that CNA then it would for them to just guide the darn feet over, except pure lazyness. 

I have all the respect for a nursing home nurse or CNA that does their job, and does it well, however bad experiences far outweight the good.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> What does a CNA have to chart aside from writing down vitals? And no, when I did IFT, most of my reports were started, and finished, standing at the nurses station, or at the stretcher while going through the chart, or at the triage desk. What was done sitting was done in the ambulance at patient bedside.


 
The patient's main chart is not carried into each room. The CNA will generally record the vitals and then sit down at the station to record them in the charts which may be up to 30. You have *ONE* patient. You have also been sitting in your truck or sleeping at the station. That CNA may have changed 30 diapers and been on his/her feet for 8 hours straight before you got there. 

How many people do you think one nurse at these nursing homes have to deal with in just one shift? Maybe 1 - 10 doctors? 30 family members? Delivery people? Administrators? Telephone calls that don't stop? Pharmacies? Arranging labs? Transfers? Admissions? Oh, and what about trying to see the patients to give them their medications? That can be 300+ meds per shift easily in some places. 

It seems there is nothing anyone can say to get you to explore some of the many factors for why people react as they do. It is attitudes like yours which don't consider any other possibilities for the way things are the way they are that keep this US against THEM crap alive. Thus, with this attitude, why would you expect the staff to jump real high when called by you each time? Your attitude probably projects loud and clear.


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## Veneficus (Mar 14, 2010)

thought you all would appreciate this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoXZ-t_3KnY&feature=related

this one too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPMIQv6JmEI&feature=related


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2010)

> It seems there is nothing anyone can say to get you to explore some of the many factors for why people react as they do. It is attitudes like yours which don't consider any other possibilities for the way things are the way they are that keep this US against THEM crap alive. Thus, with this attitude, why would you expect the staff to jump real high when called by you each time? Your attitude probably projects loud and clear.



Don't even speculate about my on scene demenaor. I've already stated that I am chipper, upbeat, and pleasent to each and every staff member on scene, until given a reason not to be. I understand they have a difficult job, that does not give them the right to neglect their patients. They get NO sympathy from me when they complain about how hard their job is, when they're all sitting at the nurses station, or at a table in the cafeteria, or the activity room, or anywhere else while there is patient care to be done. 

Oh vent, you are right. CNAs and LPNs are never slackers who get lazy and sit down on the job, that is strictly reserved for big bad nasty EMTs and Paramedics. They're perfect. We should all bow to them, praise them, and bring them cookies when we come to take a patient who has been ignored for three days.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Oh vent, you are right. CNAs and LPNs are never slackers who get lazy and sit down on the job, that is strictly reserved for *big bad nasty EMTs and Paramedics. *They're perfect. We should all bow to them, praise them, and bring them cookies when we come to take a patient who has been ignored for three days.



Again with the attitude!  I can't imagine you putting that mess aside and walking into any situation with a nurse or CNA and being civil.   

All I have done in my posts is explain the duties of nurses and CNAs since you can't possibly see why anyone would ever sit down to chart if you stand.

I have told you how to report abuse if you think that is warranted.  File the paperwork and be prepared to backup what you say.  Just giving attitude may not be enough.  

I have also not callled EMTs big bad and nasty as you have.  Where do you get that from?  Is that how you think of EMTs?



> when they're all sitting at the nurses station, or at a table in the cafeteria, or the activity room, or anywhere else while there is patient care to be done.


 Aren't you allowed to eat? Drive around until you find a good restaurant?  Sleep?  It is too bad that you think they must be constantly at the bedside for the entire 12 hours. Those that do try to be burn out real fast.  And what is done on these forums?  There are people complaining  about their jobs or that of others?  Are you really that much different?


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Again with the attitude!  I can't imagine you putting that mess aside and walking into any situation with a nurse or CNA and being civil.
> 
> All I have done in my posts is explain the duties of nurses and CNAs since youcan't possibly see why anyone would ever sit down to chart if you stand.
> 
> ...



Is there patient care to be done? If there is patient care to be done then we are not sitting, eating or browsing forums. At least not on my truck. I have no problem with them sitting to chart. I have a problem with them sitting to do not a damn thing while there is patient care to be done. They get lunch breaks, smoke breaks and still have time to sit and do nothing.

You insinuated earlier that the poor cnas and lpns are only nasty to emts and paramedics because of past crews. 

If you have doubts about my on scene professionalism you are welcome to do a ride along on my truck. 

God forbid I voice my frustration over the poor condition and staff of nursing homes and their patients.


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> As far as someone's comment about Stage IV decubs,



Trying to find where I blamed a SNF for stage 4s. I called stage 4s a part of medicine that is nasty (and it, by far, isn't the only part), but I fail to see where I made any comment in regard to quality of nursing home care. The patient I was directly thinking of was, gasp, a non-compliant and rude patient in a hospital that the hospital couldn't discharge because no facility would take her.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Trying to find where *I blamed a SNF for stage 4s. I *called stage 4s a part of medicine that is nasty (and it, by far, isn't the only part), but I fail to see where I made any comment in regard to quality of nursing home care. The patient I was directly thinking of was, gasp, a non-compliant and rude patient in a hospital that the hospital couldn't discharge because no facility would take her.



I would like to know how you think I directly blamed you for Stage 4 decubs?  

Just because I state a Stage 1 could happen on an ambulance cot does NOT me I blamed you or SNFs or anything else.  I merely told you how a decubitus is easy to get started and out of control and I even *STATED IN AN ICU ON AN EXPENSIVE BED!

*For you to read again:


> As far as someone's comment about Stage IV decubs, it is very difficult to maintain any bedridden patient. The patient might come in as a Stage 1 just from the ambulance cot ride and develop overnight to a Stage 2. It then doesn't take much to progress to a Stage 4. If the RN tries to get the patient transferred to initiate wound care, that routine transfer might take awhile. If they call EMS or for an emergent transfer when the patient finally spikes a temp which can be a delayed response, they may be ridiculed by EMTs for "a temp and a bedsore" and will also have to respond to their employer why they waited or why they sent the patient. Either way, it is a no win situation for them or the patient. Too early and they face scrutiny and too late they jeopardize the patient and more scrutiny. It is a no win situation for staff. We even get patients with bad decubs start in the ICUs even with the beds that cost around $80k and low RNatient ratios. Long term patients break easily and we try everything we can to get the patients moving off the technology, out of the ICUs and throughout the system to hopefully a decent facility and much stronger. Unfortunately patients are being moved very rapidly and sometimes to rapidly out of the acute care facilities to make space. That puts an additional burden on SNF staff as they are now asked to do more with less.



Do you see anything specific in that quote where I called you out on this?   There are alot of people here who probably have only heard the term decubitus and may not know what it means although it has been discussed in threads about LSBs.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Is there patient care to be done? If there is patient care to be done then we are not sitting, eating or browsing forums. At least not on my truck. I have no problem with them sitting to chart. I have a problem with them sitting to do not a damn thing while there is patient care to be done. They get lunch breaks, smoke breaks and still have time to sit and do nothing.



So in your opinion there should be no breaks for any nurses or CNA because you believe them to be lazy good for nothings? 



Sasha said:


> You insinuated earlier that the *poor cnas and lpns are only nasty *to emts and paramedics because of past crews.



My quote is below.  I also want you to look through all of my posts and find the words "poor" and "nasty".  Right now you are the only one that called EMTs nasty in your post. 




> Everybody in healthcare has a rough job to do. If you go into a SNF or nursing home with a crap attitude, don't expect to be greeted well. You also don't know what type of crap the staff had to put up with from the previous IFT or EMS crews.





Sasha said:


> If you have doubts about my on scene professionalism you are welcome to do a ride along on my truck.
> 
> God forbid I voice my frustration over the poor condition and staff of nursing homes and their patients.



Your dislike towards nurses, CNAs and nursing homes is  pretty extreme.   

But again, what have you done about any of the situations that you believe are abusive?  You know how to report them and I don't mean just "telling your supervisor".  Have you ever followed through with something you believe is harmful to a patient?  

I'm sure you would put on a good show if someone was with you.  The person that does ride with you may not share your same dislike for other health care professionals and will try to make the best of even a bad situation or understand what must be done.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha;213680
If you have doubts about my on scene professionalism you are welcome to do a ride along on my truck. 

[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> your service does ride alongs? because I have serious doubts about your on scene professionalism...
> 
> I want to go for a ride along, and you can teach me all about being a pair-a-medic


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## TransportJockey (Mar 14, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> your service does ride alongs? because I have serious doubts about your on scene professionalism...
> 
> I want to go for a ride along, and you can teach me all about being a pair-a-medic



You lie. Anyways, remember not to drool too much


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## Lifeguards For Life (Mar 14, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> You lie. Anyways, remember not to drool too much



drool?


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## iamjeff171 (Mar 14, 2010)

yet another thread hi-jacked.  with that said, i will continue the hi-jacking.
A comment was made earlier concerning speaking negativly about a facility.  i once had a IFT from the hospital for a patient who had recently became ill and needed more extended care at a SNF. the particular facility we were taking him to is well known for having some of the most understaffed and overworked dedicated healthcare workers in the city.while transporting, the patient asks me if the facility we are taking him to is a nice place. i forget exactly what i said, i skated around the subject and never actually answered him(that didnt exactly put him at ease). how would you answer this patient?

i will say like in any other profession there are bad apples, and these are the people who stand out.  i know if i was forced to work in the above facility, i would very likely become a bad apple myself(in reality, i would find other employment before letting it get that bad).  i dont think anyone is saying that all of these workers are evil people just waiting to inflict pain and suffering on grandma/grandpa.  blaming all healthcare workers would definitely be blaming the victim.  you cant really blame someone for being tired, over worked, and burned out, when they are...tired and overworked to that point.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 14, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> drool?



From the hotness that is Sasha


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2010)

> So in your opinion there should be no breaks for any nurses or CNA because you believe them to be lazy good for nothings?



Good lord woman! Read! 

I have never once stated all CNAs and nurses are lazy or bad, I said there are bad ones in the profession just as you will find a bad EMT, Paramedic, Dr, even a bad RT. However you seem to be unable to grasp the fact that there may such a thing as a bad CNA or bad nurse, or even a bad nursing home.

If there is patient care to be done, you should not get a break until the patient is taken care of, plain and simple. If an EMT/Paramedic sat down on scene, busted out the coffee and donuts, and chilled out for 10-30 minutes while the patient waited for care, you'd be in outrage! That is essentially what the nurse or CNA is doing *IF THERE IS PATIENT CARE LEFT TO BE DONE WHILE THEY ARE ON THEIR BREAK *



> Your dislike towards nurses, CNAs and nursing homes is pretty extreme.


 I don't dislike nurses, I plan to pursue a career in nursing, I don't dislike CNAs, if they do their job. Nor do I dislike a nursing home, if they provide quality care. I have nothing but praise for the one my grandmother recieved her hospice care at, and there are several nursing homes in the area I would recommend should a relative or friend need one, because they take care of their patients and don't sit around while the call bells are going off, and the call bells are answered in LESS than 30 minutes. Imagine that!  



> But again, what have you done about any of the situations that you believe are abusive? You know how to report them and I don't mean just "telling your supervisor". Have you ever followed through with something you believe is harmful to a patient?



I document it, report it to supervisors, nurses and also place a call to the abuse hotlines. I've previously stated that I have made calls on nursing homes for abuse and neglect.



> I'm sure you would put on a good show if someone was with you. The person that does ride with you may not share your same dislike for other health care professionals and will try to make the best of even a bad situation or understand what must be done.



I have had an EMT student LPN, and an EMT student home health aid CNA who have both found themselves disgusted at the quality of staff at some nursing homes at the end of their ride time at my old job, without us saying two words about the substandard care the CNAs had been providing.


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## CAOX3 (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Good lord woman! Read!
> 
> I have never once stated all CNAs and nurses are lazy or bad, I said there are bad ones in the profession just as you will find a bad EMT, Paramedic, Dr, even a bad RT. However you seem to be unable to grasp the fact that there may such a thing as a bad CNA or bad nurse, or even a bad nursing home.
> 
> ...


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Good lord woman! Read!
> 
> I have never once stated all CNAs and nurses are lazy or bad, I said there are bad ones in the profession just as you will find a bad EMT, Paramedic, Dr, even a bad RT. However you seem to be unable to grasp the fact that there may such a thing as a bad CNA or bad nurse, or even a bad nursing home.



Why should I waste anymore time reading your posts?  You obviously have not read any of my posts and keep coming back with what you think they say.   Youi are so hell bent on believing all of my posts are about praising nurses and CNAs that you missed the entire subject of each post.  You are only reading into them what you want and fail to see that most of them are neutral with explanations of their jobs such as charting, paperwork and medications as well as some comments about insurance and decubitus ulcers.   

I will say this ONE MORE TIME.

If you believe the patients are being abandoned or abused by the awful nurses and CNAs as you believe them to be:

*DO THE PAPERWORK AND FILE IT WITH THE STATE!  HOW MUCH PLAINER DO YOU WANT ME TO  WRITE IT?  FOLLOW UP ON IT.  JUST WRITING IT ON A PERSONAL PAD OR TELLING A SUPERVISOR IS NOT THE SAME.   DOCUMENT WITH YOUR NAME AND SEE THAT IT GETS TO THE STATE FOR THE PROPER REPORTING.  *

 And of course make sure you can back up everything you say about every staff member being on break with a copy of their schedule and an accurate listing all the people you saw in that cafeteria. 

Your company will not do that for you since it will mean good-bye to that contract.


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2010)

> DO THE PAPERWORK AND FILE IT WITH THE STATE! HOW MUCH PLAINER DO YOU WANT ME TO WRITE IT? FOLLOW UP ON IT. JUST WRITING IT ON A PERSONAL PAD OR TELLING A SUPERVISOR IS NOT THE SAME. DOCUMENT WITH YOUR NAME AND SEE THAT IT GETS TO THE STATE FOR THE PROPER REPORTING.



I am not asking how to report abuse. I have stated that I have called the abuse hotlines to report abuse. I am not asking you how to do that. How much plainer do I need to explain this to you? Such a shame. All those degrees and that this still escapes you.

I don't know what happened to you, you used to be such a well respected member of this community. It's sad to see you result to such tactics to make your argument anymore.

I can't argue with you anymore, it's like banging my head against the wall. You continue to see what you want to see and twist it to fit your own argument and take it completely out of context.


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> I am not asking how to report abuse. I have stated that I have called the abuse hotlines to report abuse. I am not asking you how to do that. How much plainer do I need to explain this to you?



It doesn't matter how much you repeat that line, she'll just keep saying the same thing over and over again. What's really fun is when the personal attacks come out. I'm still waiting for the evidence that I'm a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, classist bigot. However I'm not holding my breath.


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## Bloom-IUEMT (Mar 14, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Good lord woman! Read!



Holy crap Vent is a woman?  :blush:

Maybe some (probably most) of the blame belongs with management of those particular substandard nursing homes as opposed to the staff. I'm sure that there are people in healthcare who feel equally bad towards ems workers without knowing the nature of our job.
Probably shouldn't get too bent out of shape over it; it's not worth getting kicked off the forums for. Perhaps someone could post a link to Department of Health or Center for medicaid and medicare services report on nursing homes that could shed light on the true state of nursing homes.  I'm actually kind of curious myself.....


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## Bloom-IUEMT (Mar 14, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> It doesn't matter how much you repeat that line, she'll just keep saying the same thing over and over again. What's really fun is when the personal attacks come out. I'm still waiting for the evidence that I'm a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, classist bigot. However I'm not holding my breath.



Lol you are kind of a Republican so it's not much of a leap Lol j/k!
And how do have all this time to spend on different forums being in med school and such?


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2010)

Bloom-IUEMT said:


> Lol you are kind of a Republican so it's not much of a leap Lol j/k!
> And how do have all this time to spend on different forums being in med school and such?



To steal a quote from a talk show host that used to have a show out here, I'm more conservative than liberal, libertarian than conservative, and cynical and skeptical than anything else. 

Procrastination. Besides, Facebook is hilarious right now because after 6 exams in 7 weeks (including the exam on Friday right before Spring Break), the entire class seems to have hit the wall and have burned out. This weekend has, by far, been the least productive for me this year (excluding breaks).


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## LucidResq (Mar 15, 2010)

Sasha said:


> If there is patient care to be done, you should not get a break until the patient is taken care of, plain and simple. If an EMT/Paramedic sat down on scene, busted out the coffee and donuts, and chilled out for 10-30 minutes while the patient waited for care, you'd be in outrage! That is essentially what the nurse or CNA is doing *IF THERE IS PATIENT CARE LEFT TO BE DONE WHILE THEY ARE ON THEIR BREAK *



I have to agree with this. I am a CNA student and had my first clinical today. I had the fortunate of having one of the good CNAs at the facility as my preceptor. PS: this is a pretty good facility, comparatively. Very clean and generally attentive staff. 

I spent the majority of the day answering other CNA's patients call-lights, as did my preceptor to the extent she could. I kinda knew what to expect going in, but I was pretty shocked to just see call-lights going off for a long time while multiple nurses / CNAs / etc just hung out and talked at the nursing station and left for smoke breaks. 

Instead of having the 8 patients I was assigned, I really ended up watching over about 25 because I'm not just going to sit back and let these poor people crap their pants, go thirsty, fall while they desperately try to get themselves up to the bathroom, etc.


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## Sasha (Mar 15, 2010)

> I have serious doubts about your on scene professionalism...



You've stroked my ego too much in our AIM conversations to convince me that you're serious about doubts in my professionalism =P


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Mar 15, 2010)

Sasha said:


> You've stroked my ego too much in our AIM conversations to convince me that you're serious about doubts in my professionalism =P



Woah! There could be youngin's reading this thread :blush:


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## AVPU (Mar 16, 2010)

jerellem said:


> Has being an EMT changed how you look at life? If so, how? I'm sure seeing death and saving lives HAS to have an effect on one mentally. How has it altered your look on life? I'm a recently certified EMT and can't wait to find a job and I was just curious.


Simply learning A&P like I have, I am in amazement how we live...really live....day to day. Our system is so delicate, yet so efficient, that is truly is a winder to me.


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## ochacon80 (Apr 14, 2010)

I have learned never to send a loved one to a nursing home, at least here in L.A. that holds true.


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## mcdonl (Apr 14, 2010)

jerellem said:


> Has being an EMT changed how you look at life? If so, how?



Lack of sleep, night terrors, paranoia....

OH... WAIT!! That is because I have not taken the NR-EMT exam yet!!

Will all of those things go away if I pass?


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## TransportJockey (Apr 14, 2010)

It's made me even more cynical  Thank god for work


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## dudemanguy (Apr 14, 2010)

Being a CNA isnt a picnic...not that I'm excusing anyone neglecting patients. But the typical CNA works a hell of a lot harder than the typical EMT. They also arent motivated by flashy red lights and a uniform.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 14, 2010)

dudemanguy said:


> Being a CNA isnt a picnic...not that I'm excusing anyone neglecting patients. But the typical CNA works a hell of a lot harder than the typical EMT. They also arent motivated by flashy red lights and a uniform.



+1. I worked as a floor tech for a while and worked harder every shift than I ever did in the field.


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## Saywhat (Apr 14, 2010)

Can't say that it has changed my life per say... then again I haven't seen as many crazy calls as the rest of you people... mostly sick, EDPs, MVAs.... 

I'm pretty sure I won't change as a person but am constantly reminded that life is precious. 

+1 on the nursing home ... never going to send anyone i care about there...rather live in a motor home than a nursing home ahahahaha^_^


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