# Difference In Aha And Arc Bls Cpr/aed Classes



## futureemt (Nov 15, 2007)

can someone tell me if there a difference in the two different courses.. I have mine with AHA and if I'm already certified one card is all I need right??


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 15, 2007)

There is minute differences. AHA is usually required by the medical profession ( Helathcare provider course), ARC is not usually recognized as an official educator.  

All CPR standards are from the Emergency Cardiac Care Committee (ECC) that makes formal recommendations and changes. The AHA adapts these, and ARC usually as well or modifies the standards so the public can understand them better. 

R/r 911


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## Chimpie (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm an ARC instructor.  Rid's comments are correct.  The AHA and ARC standards are pretty much the same.  The ARC just teaches it in a way that the lay citizen responder understands.


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## MRE (Nov 15, 2007)

If you are talking about AHA BLS for healthcare providers and ARC CPR for the Professional Rescuer, the only real difference between the two is the way that they handle an obstructed airway.

For conscious adults and children, the AHA says to do abdominal thrusts (heimlich manuver) and the ARC says to do alternating cycles of 5 back blows and 5 abdominal thrusts (yes this is for adults and children).  Conscious airway obstruction for infants is the same for both (alternating cycles of 5 back blows and 5 chest thrusts).

For unconscious adults, children and infants, the AHA says to do CPR (and check for objects in the airway).  The ARC says to do 5 compressions, check for an object in the airway and re-attempt breaths (very similar to AHA except less compressions).

As Rid has already mentioned, AHA is usually required by the medical community, but my EMT-B instructor said that ARC CPR for the Professional Rescuer would have been accepted as well in Massachusetts.

AHA is good for 2 years, while ARC is only good for 1.  In my opinion, a recert every two years is only ok if you use the skills in between.  If you don't then it is too long and you tend to forget.


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## skyemt (Nov 15, 2007)

also, i know that our county protocols specify following AHA guidelines for CPR and obstructed airway...

could potentially cause a problem if someone followed ARC instead, and there was a poor outcome...

you might want to know where your state falls on that...


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## futureemt (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks to each of you!!  I did notice the in reading info on the AHA and ARC on some differences.  I don't like it. But who am I to critique it...LOL
  I feel more comfortable with the AHA.

See my problem is that I work as an dental assistant we have mandatory cpr classes with the ARC tomorrow,I don't see why I have to go if I'm certified with the AHA which I'm one step up.  My office isn't doing BLS with AED. I dont know why.  He just wants the office certified.  At the moment I'm the only one qualifed BLS Certified/AED, anyway

 Thanks again


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## futureemt (Nov 15, 2007)

skyemt said:


> also, i know that our county protocols specify following AHA guidelines for CPR and obstructed airway...
> 
> could potentially cause a problem if someone followed ARC instead, and there was a poor outcome...
> 
> you might want to know where your state falls on that...


how do I check out what my state falls under...I'm in New Jersey if anyone knows the answer


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## BossyCow (Nov 15, 2007)

Ity may be an insurance thing for your employer.  Also, in high risk catagories on Labor and Industries insurance, (workmen's comp etc) some agencies will give lower rates if a certain ratio of certified employees is met.


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## medicdan (Nov 15, 2007)

futureemt said:


> See my problem is that I work as an dental assistant we have mandatory cpr classes with the ARC tomorrow,I don't see why I have to go if I'm certified with the AHA which I'm one step up.  My office isn't doing BLS with AED. I dont know why.  He just wants the office certified.  At the moment I'm the only one qualifed BLS Certified/AED, anyway



Is there an AED in or around the office? Is dental surgery performed in the office? Anesthesia used (including Nitrous Oxide)? 
Does the DMD want you to be trained just because it is a good thing to know, of for his own liability?


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## skyemt (Nov 15, 2007)

there probably should be an AED in the dental office... one of the atypical presentations for MI is toothache...

more than a few pts having MI have been picked up and dentists offices...


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## BossyCow (Nov 15, 2007)

skyemt said:


> there probably should be an AED in the dental office... one of the atypical presentations for MI is toothache...
> 
> more than a few pts having MI have been picked up and dentists offices...



Also severe allergic reactions to novocaine.  And besides, just sitting in the waiting room can be when a patient's cardiac event happens.


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## rgnoon (Nov 15, 2007)

futureemt said:


> how do I check out what my state falls under...I'm in New Jersey if anyone knows the answer



In Jersey most EMT courses are prefaced with the AHA BLS. Now as for specific guidlines, I can't confirm, but I'd say that your best bet is following AHA. 

As KB stated the main difference seems to be treatment for FBAO. Again, I'd say go with what you were taught in AHA and I wouldn't worry about it too much.


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## Arkymedic (Nov 15, 2007)

futureemt said:


> can someone tell me if there a difference in the two different courses.. I have mine with AHA and if I'm already certified one card is all I need right??



I personally feel that the ARC course sucks. I use to teach ARC and hated the way it was set up and did not flow well. Now that I teach AHA I am happy with it and since it is the most commonly required for healthcare providers I teach more courses and make a little bit more extra money to compensate the low medic salary.


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## Chimpie (Nov 15, 2007)

Arkymedic said:


> I personally feel that the ARC course sucks. I use to teach ARC and hated the way it was set up and did not flow well. Now that I teach AHA I am happy with it and since it is the most commonly required for healthcare providers I teach more courses and make a little bit more extra money to compensate the low medic salary.


 
I do not like the flow of the *new* videos.  I hate that the ARC wants the classes to be taught by video, rather than an experienced instructor.  I taught two classes with the new videos in 2006 and I had enough.  I've taught a few classes since but it was CPRO & Emergency Response and it still used the old videos.


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## MRE (Nov 15, 2007)

I did the AHA course over the summer for my EMT-B and I seem to remember the video actually giving the class cues to practice along with.  This seems like the most radical move toward replacing the instructor with a video all together.  I know that the new ARC videos do not do this and only explain and demonstrate the skills.

If I am wrong about the AHA CPR video, please correct me, but this is what I remember about it.

I teach ARC CPR because it goes with the ARC Lifeguard cert.  When I teach, I show the video for a particular section (as I am required to),the stop it and do a short discussion on the material and add any useful information that I can, as well as answering questions.  I like to add in some of the reasons why they are doing certain things, since it always helped me when I was learning.  This seems to be more important in the First Aid classes though, since the video content is lacking in many places.


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## indygirl14 (Nov 16, 2007)

I was told I needed the ARC course, so I signed up for it.  I was a little surprised when I was told I had to take it ONLINE!!  It took a couple of hours to go through the slides, all while sitting at a Starbucks.  Then, I went to the ARC office to go through my skills session, and I was the only student in there, so it took me about an hour and I was handed my card and walked out!!


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## futureemt (Nov 16, 2007)

No there no AED in the office, we are behind our times....yes there should be I totally agree.  Yes we have N20 in the office too.  Like I said I have all that with the AHA, but I'm going today in about 2 hours to ARC and see what is actually going on.  I do believe it could be for his liability, I kno the back team is all getting it, but it was a choice for the front...I multi-task and can to both.  

I just don't want to confuse myself with the airway obstructions.  I'll let each of you kno later how it all went.  Happy Friday


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## futureemt (Nov 16, 2007)

wow, really! With AHA i had to wait for my card,maybe its because I was going through it with my squad. I seen that on the ARC's website that you can take it on-line. I let you kno if I get my card today too.


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## BossyCow (Nov 16, 2007)

Chimpie said:


> I do not like the flow of the *new* videos.  I hate that the ARC wants the classes to be taught by video, rather than an experienced instructor.  I taught two classes with the new videos in 2006 and I had enough.  I've taught a few classes since but it was CPRO & Emergency Response and it still used the old videos.




Agreed Chimpie!  I taught ARC for many years and loved their instructor program with all the information on how to teach and how to present information so the students retain it.  Apparently they didn't listen to their own instructor classes because they have turned us into fleshy remote controls.  Our role is to 'press play' and observe the students.  My cert as an ARC instructor expires this Dec and I'm not renewing it.  I currently have ASHI cert which also certifies me to teach the wilderness first aid program as well. I take the AHA class every year, and certify as 'taught to the AHA standard which is different from an AHA cert.  Most agencies in my area have adopted that as a practice because AHA around here has been difficult to deal with.


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## Markhk (Nov 16, 2007)

FutureEMT, both AHA and ARC offer on-line courses. However, you need to make sure the training site (or Red Cross chapter) offers the second part of the program, which is the skills check off. 

ARC and AHA both in 2005 revised their programs to reflect "watch as you practice", much like an aerobics video. AHA has transitioned all of the BLS programs into this style (even for the BLS portion of the ACLS/PALS program) whereas ARC has held off on doing a complete conversion. Layperson Red Cross is "watch as you practice" whereas Professional Rescuer Red Cross is still "watch then practice".


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## futureemt (Nov 17, 2007)

The entire office agrees we should have an AED in the office, but we can't get our bosses to agree.  i mentioned to  them today when we were in our CPR class it very easy to use. I said most schools have them now, well here in jersey..All three of my kids schools have AED signs on the entrance door.

The weridest thing is we all got certified for Adult CPR....not professional , child/infant.  We are professionals no matter how you look at it.


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## futureemt (Nov 17, 2007)

I agree with Chimpee...I was so suprised at my class today with ARC.  Not being mean at all, but our instructor stood there and when a few people had questions he rewinded the video... where's the one on one. My AHA instrutor helped down to the end if any questions were needed to be asked or shown.

Furthermore, it was easy for me, since I knew what I was doing and even got asked why I was there when I correct a question. The newbies were lost.

AHA video did give clues to the test questions...I know that for a fact since I just got mine back in August


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## Markhk (Nov 17, 2007)

Sadly, it sounds like you had an instructor who was not familiar with the material. Red Cross instructors are not supposed to rewind the videos unless the entire class needs help revisiting the topic. He/She should also have had a big binder with them them answers most of the questions students will ask.


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## firetender (Nov 17, 2007)

*Am I Nuts, or Just Old?*

When I first got certified by the ARC in Basic First Aid it was around 1973.

It wasn't very difficult. Only took 8 hours. In that time we got to learn basic concepts of first aid and got to use a whole lot of new tools, like bandages and cravats and splints, most of us for the first time. 

The idea, as I understood it then, was lack of knowledge and unfamiliarity with the proper use of tools were the biggest factors that would cause inaction in an emergency. The idea was, after eight hours of lecture AND hands-on experience, indeed, someone could be able to handle a basic medical emergency and even go so advanced as taking pulse and blood pressure too!

And when I first took CPR, around the same time, it was at least a half day where the class got intimate with mannequins, and maybe even got the feel of what it takes to compress a chest for a full minute!

Well, 22 years after all my certifications expired I went back and took the AHA Heartsaver CPR and Heartsaver First Aid courses so I could get my cards so I can work as a tourguide in Haleakala National Park. It's mandatory, you know...we must be prepared.

What a shock!

The classes, run back-to back, began at 9:00 AM and we were out the door by 1:30 PM. That's BOTH of them! 

The funny thing was, they went by so fast at first I was glad that I didn't have to sit through learning and practicing stuff that I know as well as my first name. But then I realized, we didn't see a bandage, cravat or splint, didn't do but a few compressions on a sawed-off mannequin. 

That means about fifteen people who were never exposed to this stuff were told they've been trained in First Aid and CPR by (a representative of) the AHA, who, much to my consternation, happened to be a paramedic active in the field (AMR!).

What a joke!

She basically recited a five page checklist for Basic First Aid, threw in a few anecdotes about her field experience, barely more than showed us these new-fangled mannequins that consist of a head, compression tube and a vest like thing that you assemble yourself, and BOOM! we were gone. Test? We don't need no stinking tests!

Sure, it was better than nothing but had I had a medical emergency in that classroom, no jury in the world would convict me for strangling to death anyone (including the instructor) who tried to touch me!

If you think I'm exagerrating, let's put it this way, the CPR course started with a fifteen minute video of some British Comedian (Rowan Atkinson) literally jump starting (with car jumper cables!) someone who hit the floor with an MI.

I can't help but wonder, is this REALLY what these AHA courses are these days?

I almost forgot, she showed us an AED. Did I get to actually touch it? Guess!


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