# Math for the EMT-B



## rhan101277 (Aug 5, 2008)

This looks like things a paramedic would need to know, but was curious if the EMT-Basic would.  It is just simple math.

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/quizzes/cc_oftenj/emtmath.html


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## mikie (Aug 5, 2008)

thanks for the link!

I've kinda wanted some practice Qs like that.  I started a thread a while back about medic math.  I was curious to the level of difficulty.  

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=7996


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## KEVD18 (Aug 5, 2008)

well it depends. if your state lets basics do ivs, then you'll need to knwo some of that. if not, then forget it. it wouldnt kill you to learn it, but if your not drawing up meds and doing drips on a daily basis, you'll soon forget your learnings.


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## icekayak (Aug 6, 2008)

Number 1 is:
You are ordered to administer 0.5 mg of atropine sulfate to a patient. The atropine comes 2mg in 1 ml. How many milliters will you give?

Your answer:
0.25 ml
1.00 ml
0.50 ml
0.75 ml


What do you guys think the answer is?
I got it wrong but can't see where i went wrong so am wondering if the quiz is wrong...


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## jamiga (Aug 6, 2008)

My first thought is 0.25mg... but I am the worlds worst at drug equations soooo......

It says the correct answer is 0.5 mg?

That doesn't really make sense to me because if you gave 0.5ml would that not equal 1mg of atropine sulfate?

It's 5am, so excuse me if I am making ZERO sense right now. . .


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## icekayak (Aug 6, 2008)

yeh i thought it was 0.25ml too... cos its 1/4 of the ampule which is 1ml


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## JPINFV (Aug 6, 2008)

Someone online is failing at dimensional analysis.

(2mg/mL)(X)=0.5mg
x=(0.5mg)/(2mg/mL) (mg/mg=1, so milligrams cancel out. mL can be moved to the numerator)

x=0.5mL/2

x=0.25mL


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## MRE (Aug 6, 2008)

Mathmatically its 0.25ml, if they got that simple question wrong, can you trust the others?  I'm a basic so I have no idea if the other answers are correct or not.


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## JPINFV (Aug 6, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> x=(0.5mg)/(2mg/mL) (mg/mg=1, so milligrams cancel out. mL can be moved to the numerator)



To clarify, since it looks like I'm trying to say that _since_ mg was canceled out, mL can be moved to the numerator, 1/(1/x)=x. I just did both 'book keeping' actions in the same step.


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## BHammond1 (Aug 6, 2008)

*Math for EMT-Bs*

Hello all, I wasn't exactly sure if I should put this under Education & Training or not, but I decided to put it here since I am specifically aiming the discussion at a BLS certification.

Anyway, I was wondering what sort of knowledge of math and sciences are needed for EMT-B certification and practice. Math has never been my forte and I've always struggled with it, but I feel drawn to EMS work and I wanted to see what I should be looking forward to.

Thanks.


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## Jon (Aug 6, 2008)

I merged this with the other active thread on EMS math.


on the BLS side - not that much math. On the ALS side... you need to be able to figure out dosages based on weight (mg/kg) and time (mg/min) - this means multiplication/division of decimals/fractions. Here is a thread on the topic of ALS math: http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=3194


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## JPINFV (Aug 6, 2008)

BHammond1 said:


> Anyway, I was wondering what sort of knowledge of math and sciences are needed for EMT-B certification and practice. Math has never been my forte and I've always struggled with it, but I feel drawn to EMS work and I wanted to see what I should be looking forward to.



Needed? Unfortunately none due to insanely low standards (EMT-B was designed to be 110 hours). 

Recommended: A good grounding in algebra, anatomy, physiology (year combined, regardless of if it's a year of A/P or a term of anatomy and a term of physiology. Neither my undergrad or grad school offered a combined A/P course), chemistry, intro to physics (at the very least, mechanics). There are additional courses that I personally put into the 'nice to have and helpful' column that other people would consider required.


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## mikeylikesit (Aug 6, 2008)

I hated math but when I was some with high school I already had done college calc and trig...I have never seen math as too necessary other than simple math.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 6, 2008)

mikeylikesit said:


> I hated math but when I was some with high school I already had done college calc and trig...I have never seen math as too necessary other than simple math.




Part of the problem with us in EMS is that we assume this is all that will ever be needed. Lacking the understanding that we be educated to the fullest, while we are obtaining our education. 

Consider reading an scientific journal or study. How many in EMS, actually understand the general statistics of such a study? What does the variables, null and being skewed represents? Does this make a difference.. you bet! 

How many Paramedics that you work with or know of can immediately even perform an IV drip calculation in their heads in a few seconds and be reasonably accurate? Even give them an IV calculation of fluids to administer volume over an eight hour period.. The same when given an order of a mcg of medication, but on the hand is weighted in grains. 

The typical answer is .. _"You really don't have to know that or I'll never have to use that!".. _ The same typical answer a nurse could give about taking ACLS that works in a nursing home or another non critical unit. My answer is the same.. It's part of your job, and as a health care practitioner to have the general knowledge and be proficient in it. 

R/r 911


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## SouthsideEMT (Aug 9, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> well it depends. if your state lets basics do ivs, then you'll need to knwo some of that. if not, then forget it. it wouldnt kill you to learn it, but if your not drawing up meds and doing drips on a daily basis, you'll soon forget your learnings.



california only permits ALS to administer drugs, so this wouldnt pertain to me......yet!!


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## JPINFV (Aug 9, 2008)

SouthsideEMT said:


> california only permits ALS to administer drugs, so this wouldnt pertain to me......yet!!



Depends on where you are... There's a whole list of extra interventions that areas can be approved to use. That doesn't mean that they're used often, but it is in the statute.


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## VentMedic (Aug 10, 2008)

Math for BLS or ALS?

I can't tell you the number of times I have told the EMTs and Paramedics that we would be doing an interfacility transport taking x amount of time that would be requiring  20 - 25 liters/minute of O2 (possibly with air also depending on the transport) and they still show up with only 1 D tank and an almost empty main tank in the ambulance.   I also hate seeing that deer in headlights look on these professionals even after I give them the formula to calculate how long a tank will last. 

Calculating a respiratory rate from an I:E ratio with a given I time and total ventilatory cycle is also complex for some at any level.  It just seems more frightening when it involves a transport ventilator but can be equally scary for someone watching a "mathless" person using a BVM.  Ventilators with a digital read out are "easy" but it can make people forget the thought process and they just become knobologists who are useless when it comes to  adjusting for a change in the patient's condition. 

For the EMT-Bs and Paramedics that give albuterol nebs and Epi-pen injections, the unit dose delivery has made many unaware of how much the "dose" of that medication actually is.  "One of them" is the answer we get from them in the ED.   

I don't even want to think about how some get their IV drip calculations.   There are also reasons why some ALS trucks can transport existing drips but not titrate them on interfacility transport.  I always find this half-arsed because you should know the meds, the calculations and how to use them if you are responsible for them even if it is just for a mile down the street. 

As long as JEMS is around to buffer the scientific data, statistics will be poorly understood.   That is too bad because there are many medical journals with great information that should be read now instead of waiting for the watered down version.


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