# California to screen EMT'ds for criminal backgrounds.



## mycrofft (Jan 2, 2009)

Not sure what type of criminal activity they are looking for. Not sure if it will be retroactive at each renewal.
Any others with more on this?


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## JPINFV (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm just going to go ahead and assume that we're talking Live Scan DOJ background check here? In other words, if you're an EMT-B in 90%+ of the counties in CA you won't be affected by this because you've already had one.


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## Sapphyre (Jan 2, 2009)

Where'd you hear this mycrofft?  I've already been screened, twice, once by DMV and once by the county I'm registered with....  (oh, and once by USAF, but that's another issue).  If the state is finally requiring the remaining counties to screen, I have to say, about time.


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## mycrofft (Jan 2, 2009)

*I have not heard, just the news blurbs.*

That sounds sufficient, maybe a NAC.This could be just another "declaration" to sound like the state bicameral is "on top of things". Then again scholl districts are supposed to check teachers and employees and one here hired a man with a history of a manslaughter conviction who went on to murder a student a number of years ago. They said there had been a delay of the check's results. Maybe they will re-check each time the renewal comes due? (We had a Crips associate get in and work a couple weeks because her record was as a juvenile and sealed. She kept asking "Does the guy in the tower really have a gun?" and ditching the dining hall because "it's so full of cops"....:wacko:


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## JPINFV (Jan 2, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> If the state is finally requiring the remaining counties to screen, I have to say, about time.



Probably. It was a big deal a few years ago when people started wondering why EMTs from places like San Diego were getting their EMT cert from places like Kern County. Orange County had a nifty way of getting around that by requiring EMTs working on an ambulance to obtain an Ambulance Provider license.


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## Sapphyre (Jan 2, 2009)

Is the Ambulance Provider License anything like LA DOT's Ambulance Driver Permit?


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## JPINFV (Jan 2, 2009)

Assuming that the LA DOT Ambulance Driver Permit isn't the same as the DMV permit and it's required for all the EMTs working on the ambulance, probably. Essentially the OC license  big requirment is that you have an OC EMS EMT-B certification. The OC EMT-B certificate requires a physical (CA DMV green card) and a live scan.


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## Tincanfireman (Jan 2, 2009)

A friend of mine in SC tells me that effective 15th December 2008, everyone will have to get a background check and fingerprinting by the sole-source vendor approved by the state prior to getting certified, recertified, or upgraded. Thus, if you receive your EMT and get upgraded to -I a year later and -P a year after that, you will have to get another check each time, since it's a new certification. You will be fingerprinted by the vendor, who will forward your prints to the FBI for federal clearance and to SLED (SC Law Enforcement Division) for state clearance. The cost is $37.25 and must be paid to the vendor when you are fingerprinted. Results are normally obtained within 48 hours. All fingerprinting must be done by the vendor; prints from your employer, the local constabulary, or other law enforcement agencies are not acceptable. By the way, SC firefighters are only required to have a background check completed by any law enforcement agency, with the "cost not to exceed eight dollars" (http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t40c080.htm). No fingerprints = no numbers, with no appeal. It's just that simple. FWIW, I think it stinks to high heavens, but that's just my personal .02...


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## JPINFV (Jan 2, 2009)

1. What stinks about making sure that we don't have people with lengthy and/or serious criminal histories on our emergency vehicles?

2. When did South Carolina become California?


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## Tincanfireman (Jan 2, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> 1. What stinks about making sure that we don't have people with lengthy and/or serious criminal histories on our emergency vehicles?
> 
> 2. When did South Carolina become California?


 
Easy there, big guy; no offense intended!

1.  My point is that it's inherently unfair to repeatedly charge one group of people a fee to carry out their duties when another group is only assessed a (much smaller) one-time fee in their entire career.  Both groups routinely make unescorted entry into other's domiciles and places of business in the course of their jobs, but EMT's are at a disadvantage because we need to recert every few years whereas FD does not.  I have the (personal) feeling that it's one more example of a governmental agency using a mandated recertification requirement to generate funding.  Keep in mind I've been in both fire and EMS over 25 years, so I'm certainly not picking sides here, and I agree wholeheartedly that there is nothing worse than a criminal dressed as a public servant performing their duties.  Anyone who takes advantage of the sick or injured is beyond contempt.  

2.  Just illustrating that California is not alone in their requirements, with the hope that it would generate some thoughtful discussion on the current situation elsewhere, both inside and outside the US.


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## Sapphyre (Jan 3, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Assuming that the LA DOT Ambulance Driver Permit isn't the same as the DMV permit and it's required for all the EMTs working on the ambulance, probably. Essentially the OC license  big requirment is that you have an OC EMS EMT-B certification. The OC EMT-B certificate requires a physical (CA DMV green card) and a live scan.



Ah, ok, they're different.  LA City DOT wants the DOJ Live scan, and certification from your employer that you work for them.  If you do a pick up in LA and don't have this thing, bad juju.


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## JPINFV (Jan 3, 2009)

Yea, we avoided LA City like a plague since our units weren't registered with the city either. Unless we dropped off the patient within the past 24 hours, LA City was a no go. The rest of LA County, on the other hand, was fair game.


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## daedalus (Jan 3, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> Ah, ok, they're different.  LA City DOT wants the DOJ Live scan, and certification from your employer that you work for them.  If you do a pick up in LA and don't have this thing, bad juju.



Nothing stinks more than the LA city DOT permit!!!
Litterally standing in line with the old grumpy dirty taxi drivers in the freezing rain OUTSIDE for hours to pay 120 bucks on top of you EMT card and ambulance drivers permit JUST to be able to "work" in LA city. And guess what, fire department is exempt!!! So here we are private EMTs that have paid for our education to help people, and than are penalized for it on top of the min. wage we already make.  

I have to write to the city about this..


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## Sapphyre (Jan 3, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Nothing stinks more than the LA city DOT permit!!!
> Litterally standing in line with the old grumpy dirty taxi drivers in the freezing rain OUTSIDE for hours to pay 120 bucks on top of you EMT card and ambulance drivers permit JUST to be able to "work" in LA city. And guess what, fire department is exempt!!! So here we are private EMTs that have paid for our education to help people, and than are penalized for it on top of the min. wage we already make.
> 
> I have to write to the city about this..



Plus the cost of getting to LA, paying for parking if you drove, the whole day gone while you handle the whole thing.  Think we have enough background checks????

There is someone else to talk to about the DOT.


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## Mongoose (Jan 3, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Nothing stinks more than the LA city DOT permit!!!
> Litterally standing in line with the old grumpy dirty taxi drivers in the freezing rain OUTSIDE for hours to pay 120 bucks on top of you EMT card and ambulance drivers permit JUST to be able to "work" in LA city. And guess what, fire department is exempt!!! So here we are private EMTs that have paid for our education to help people, and than are penalized for it on top of the min. wage we already make.
> 
> I have to write to the city about this..



What I don't understand is that ALL the LA City DOT wants is proof of employment and proof of a current CA Ambulance DL. They don't require additional testing or training, it is merely permission to drive/attend within city limits. In other words pure revenue.


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## Sapphyre (Jan 3, 2009)

Mongoose said:


> What I don't understand is that ALL the LA City DOT wants is proof of employment and proof of a current CA Ambulance DL. They don't require additional testing or training, it is merely permission to drive/attend within city limits. In other words pure revenue.



Yup, pure revenue.  Gotta love it.  Actually, it's probably the city's way of making sure everyone who works in the city has had the background check, since they do their own live scan.


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## Shishkabob (Jan 3, 2009)

I thought it was common practice to give EMT's a background check?


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## daedalus (Jan 3, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> Yup, pure revenue.  Gotta love it.  Actually, it's probably the city's way of making sure everyone who works in the city has had the background check, since they do their own live scan.



 have had more fingerprint scans than a convicted felon over the past few years.


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## crash_cart (Jan 3, 2009)

mycrofft said:


> Not sure what type of criminal activity they are looking for. Not sure if it will be retroactive at each renewal.
> Any others with more on this?



I would be curious to know if there isn't some redundancy here.  Do you have to pass a criminal background check in order to take your EMT class?


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## JPINFV (Jan 3, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Litterally standing in line with the old grumpy dirty taxi drivers in the freezing rain OUTSIDE for hours



What? You couldn't go get your cert on one of the 360 other days in the year that it doesn't rain? Don't get me started on the difference between California "freezing" and real "freezing" either.  h34r:B)



Linuss said:


> I thought it was common practice to give EMT's a background check?



It really depends on where you are. For example, in California *most* county EMS agencies require a background check in order to get a county/state certificate. In addition CA Department of Motor Vehicles require a second background check for the ambulance driver certificate (county EMS can't share with the DMV due to privacy laws). On the other hand, Massachusetts doesn't require a background check to become certified in MA, but requires a background check upon hire.


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## Arkymedic (Jan 3, 2009)

In Arkansas DOH has required fingerprints and a state and national check since before I came to EMS in 2001. 




Tincanfireman said:


> Easy there, big guy; no offense intended!
> 
> 1. My point is that it's inherently unfair to repeatedly charge one group of people a fee to carry out their duties when another group is only assessed a (much smaller) one-time fee in their entire career. Both groups routinely make unescorted entry into other's domiciles and places of business in the course of their jobs, but EMT's are at a disadvantage because we need to recert every few years whereas FD does not. I have the (personal) feeling that it's one more example of a governmental agency using a mandated recertification requirement to generate funding. Keep in mind I've been in both fire and EMS over 25 years, so I'm certainly not picking sides here, and I agree wholeheartedly that there is nothing worse than a criminal dressed as a public servant performing their duties. Anyone who takes advantage of the sick or injured is beyond contempt.
> 
> 2. Just illustrating that California is not alone in their requirements, with the hope that it would generate some thoughtful discussion on the current situation elsewhere, both inside and outside the US.


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## Sapphyre (Jan 3, 2009)

crash_cart said:


> I would be curious to know if there isn't some redundancy here.  Do you have to pass a criminal background check in order to take your EMT class?



Depends on what school you go too.  My school did a check based on name, social security number, past addresses, and various other information you provided (they actually talked to my employer at the time).  There was no fingerprinting done for that.


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## mycrofft (Jan 4, 2009)

*ABout that pure revenue thing...*

I believe LA has a yearly license it charges topless dancers. My hometown near there was debating it.
Not that I'm equating EMS to topless dancing...


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## KempoEMT (Jan 4, 2009)

For my EMT class im required to do a Backround screening.  They scan SSN, Criminal and one other


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## PotatoMedic (Jan 4, 2009)

Like Kempo said, to take my EMT-B class I have to do a background check.  I don't know about getting employed but I will find out in a few months once the class ends.


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## xoxokathryn (Jan 12, 2009)

what do you think a live scan is? if you live in CA, you have already had one.


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## JPINFV (Jan 12, 2009)

List of all the Live Scan locations
http://ag.ca.gov/fingerprints/publications/contact.htm

If worse comes to worse, just call up the local police station's non-emergent number and ask if they offer livescan or know of a local company that does. I got my livescans done at my university's PD.


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