# Agility testing as part of pre employement testing



## Fish (Jan 12, 2011)

Does your department do this? if so, are we talking more than just your standard can you lift this many pounds, can you walk up these steps with this many pounds. or does your department do something along the lines of a timed mile, push ups, sit ups?

Do you think agility testing should be required with pre-employement testing?



This thread does not pertain to fire based EMS, as we know that the Fire side of your job requires and agility test before getting hired.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 12, 2011)

The ones that I have put applications into don't have a physical test.


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## b2dragun (Jan 12, 2011)

The private service I work for required 2.  Pre hire we had to do a lifting course, stairs, and 5 minutes of compressions.  Post hire we had to do various lifting tests with a physician.  I personally wish there were yearly testing, it would definitely help me not have to work with someone that can't physically keep up with the job anymore.  I think you should have to be in atleast half decent shape to be in ems.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jan 12, 2011)

The county service here does require a physical test (which I passed, although I wasn't hired), the IFT service I work for never required one.


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## tcripp (Jan 12, 2011)

I work for a county based 911 service and, yes, a physical agility test had to be passed as part of the hiring process.  There are two other county systems nearby that both require the same.

If I remember correctly, you have 12 minutes to complete.  You must walk to the ambulance, put the monitor and airway bag on the stretcher and move to a pre-designated spot.  You and your partner take the two items down some bleacher steps, swap the equipment and go back up.  Put the bags on the ground then lower the stretcher.

You walk back down the step, pick up a stretcher with 160 lbs of weight (simulated patient), go back up the steps and load the patient to the stretcher...remember to secure your patient.  You each pick up the monitor/bag and then move the stretcher around an uneven course and go back to the ambulance.  Load your patient and your bags.  Move the patient from the stretcher to the side bench.  

You then go to the ambulance bay where you will proceed to do 5 minutes of CPR.  At the end of 5 minutes, you must take the regulator off an O2 tank and then put it back on, testing for leaks.  

We also do it annually along with other skills testing...and a written test over our protocols.

I've heard rumor that our chief wants to add in a running portion.


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2011)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> The county service here does require a physical test (which I passed, although I wasn't hired), the IFT service I work for never required one.




What county service was that


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## Fish (Jan 12, 2011)

tcripp said:


> I work for a county based 911 service and, yes, a physical agility test had to be passed as part of the hiring process.  There are two other county systems nearby that both require the same.
> 
> If I remember correctly, you have 12 minutes to complete.  You must walk to the ambulance, put the monitor and airway bag on the stretcher and move to a pre-designated spot.  You and your partner take the two items down some bleacher steps, swap the equipment and go back up.  Put the bags on the ground then lower the stretcher.
> 
> ...




What service is this, and what are the two services around you that do?


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## WolfmanHarris (Jan 12, 2011)

My service had a multiple parts to the lift testing.

1) Job based testing: lifting the stair chair w/ manikin up and down two flights of stairs (repeat in opposite positions); fore and aft onto stretcher, load and unload (repeat in opposite positions); backboard lift and carry. The dummy weight was not too high, I think about 175 lbs. The focus was on proper mechanics, not strength.

2) Physical Agility Evaluation. Performed offsite by Abiltywerks Inc. This is a static lift test. You pull on a non-moving bar hooked up to a computer in various positions which measures your lifting strength. Test also includes a cardio component (steps) and dexterity as well as range of motion measurements.


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## djm0219 (Jan 13, 2011)

Around here the largest county agencies both require a physical ability test. Here's a link to the one for Durham county.

http://www.durhamcountync.gov/departments/emsv/Documents/EMS_Physical_Agility.pdf


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## Aidey (Jan 13, 2011)

Fish said:


> Do you think agility testing should be required with pre-employement testing?



Yes, and annually after that. Too many people pass the test to get hired, and then get out of shape and put their partners and patients at risk for injury.


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## medicdan (Jan 13, 2011)

Short answer: many private services require a lift test, and the ability to move patients in different ways-- lift a stretcher, carry a stair chair, lift a longboard, etc. None, at least that I've heard of are looking at agility per se, simply the ability to complete standardized skills used often in EMS.


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## tcripp (Jan 13, 2011)

Fish said:


> What service is this, and what are the two services around you that do?



Out of Texas - Fayette County, Austin/Travis County and Williamson County.  The details can be found on their individual web pages.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jan 13, 2011)

Fish said:


> What county service was that



Wake County

I should note that the Wake County test is nearly identical to the Durham County test, in case anyone wanted more details.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 13, 2011)

MEDIC in Charlotte has a PAT. There's a video here: http://www.medic911.com/careers/medpat_careers


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## harryb714 (Jan 13, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> MEDIC in Charlotte has a PAT. There's a video here: http://www.medic911.com/careers/medpat_careers



Do they also wear those helmets while on duty?


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## WolfmanHarris (Jan 13, 2011)

Aidey said:


> Yes, and annually after that. Too many people pass the test to get hired, and then get out of shape and put their partners and patients at risk for injury.



I like that.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 13, 2011)

harryb714 said:


> Do they also wear those helmets while on duty?



Nope, but just like a fire department CPAT, you have to wear the helmet and gloves. I'm a little surprised they don't make the candidates wear a weight vest.


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## abckidsmom (Jan 13, 2011)

tcripp said:


> I work for a county based 911 service and, yes, a physical agility test had to be passed as part of the hiring process.  There are two other county systems nearby that both require the same.
> 
> If I remember correctly, you have 12 minutes to complete.  You must walk to the ambulance, put the monitor and airway bag on the stretcher and move to a pre-designated spot.  You and your partner take the two items down some bleacher steps, swap the equipment and go back up.  Put the bags on the ground then lower the stretcher.
> 
> ...



This sounds fun!  I think I'll suggest it as a demonstration of how pitiful some of our people are.  This is completely the layout of a labor-intensive call.


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## Fish (Jan 13, 2011)

tcripp said:


> Out of Texas - Fayette County, Austin/Travis County and Williamson County.  The details can be found on their individual web pages.



Williamson County doesn't have an agility test, I know Austin does. Does Fayette?


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## Fish (Jan 13, 2011)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> Wake County
> 
> I should note that the Wake County test is nearly identical to the Durham County test, in case anyone wanted more details.



Why the fail during their testing process? How hard is it to get on with those Dept.s


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## mc400 (Jan 14, 2011)

I work for a fire District so yes we require a cpat and yearly physical plus our own Fit to fight test. I think it should be required, we have some big ole boys on private ambo's around here that cant even pick things up off the floor.


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## akflightmedic (Jan 14, 2011)

mc400 said:


> I work for a fire District so yes we require a cpat and yearly physical plus our own Fit to fight test. I think it should be required, we have some big ole boys on private ambo's around here that cant even pick things up off the floor.



If every single one of your firefighters...every single one...is doing an annual CPAT (the trademarked one) and passing, then you must have the fittest fire department in America.


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## traumahawk (Jan 14, 2011)

In New Jersey EMTs r said to have to lift 125 pounds on their own that's it. Now I'm not the strongest person in the world but its sad when ur other Bus with two grown men have to call rescue FD to lift a man that's about 280 from the floor to his chair. ( The PT RMA d). When I was in EMT school ppl in the class could not hold their own and still passed. Thank god for a stair chair with tracks lol


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## tcripp (Jan 14, 2011)

Fish said:


> Williamson County doesn't have an agility test, I know Austin does. Does Fayette?



I'm stand corrected.  Williamson County does not.  When I sat through a recruiting talk, I could have sworn I heard the recruiter say, "We have one, just not as intense as A/TC."

Um...yes, Fayette does.  That's the service I hired in with.  We also have annual physical agility tests that are the same as the original hiring process.


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## tcripp (Jan 14, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> This sounds fun!  I think I'll suggest it as a demonstration of how pitiful some of our people are.  This is completely the layout of a labor-intensive call.



Oddly enough, it is fun.  The only issue I have is that we like to do it in January.  :glare:


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## HotelCo (Jan 14, 2011)

I wouldn't mind seeing weight/size requirements for EMS.


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## Fish (Jan 14, 2011)

tcripp said:


> I'm stand corrected.  Williamson County does not.  When I sat through a recruiting talk, I could have sworn I heard the recruiter say, "We have one, just not as intense as A/TC."
> 
> Um...yes, Fayette does.  That's the service I hired in with.  We also have annual physical agility tests that are the same as the original hiring process.



I am a recruiter for Williamson County EMS, and I hope to have you come test with us during our next process! What made you go to Fayette instead of a Wilco, or Austin? I like Fayette it is a good system, just wondering.


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## emt seeking first job (Jan 16, 2011)

It is funny but Police have agility tests but no (at least in New York State) in service agility tests....or consequences for people out of shape.

In EMS, if you cant lift, it is evident and you would lose your job...


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## HotelCo (Jan 16, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> In EMS, if you cant lift, it is evident and you would lose your job...



Don't be so sure about that...


.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jan 16, 2011)

Fish said:


> Why the fail during their testing process? How hard is it to get on with those Dept.s



I believe I was likely passed over due to lack of experience (I had none at the time). The physical test is moderately difficult, you really just have to keep up a good pace, as the entire thing is timed. 

The second phase of their testing involves a written test, a simulation, and an interview. I may be reapplying with them next fall if i'm not otherwise occupied at the time, and since i'll already be a cleared county EMT by then, chances are i'll get hired.


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## abckidsmom (Jan 16, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> It is funny but Police have agility tests but no (at least in New York State) in service agility tests....or consequences for people out of shape.
> 
> In EMS, if you cant lift, it is evident and you would lose your job...



Not if you're female, or have any other reason to be in a protected class.  

If you're female, by all means, welcome to the profession, but you had better be able to do your job.  I'm still paying the price of back pain from my partner failing during a lift 2 weeks ago.  

Where's she?  On the schedule for the rest of the month.  Rock on.


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## Level1pedstech (Jan 16, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> If every single one of your firefighters...every single one...is doing an annual CPAT (the trademarked one) and passing, then you must have the fittest fire department in America.



 The CPAT (the trademarked one) is a watered down version of the old biddle and meant to show that a candidate meets the MINIMUM requirements for admission into most fire academies. This test was developed to help those less desirable move on in the testing process allowing agencies to produce numbers that reflect diversity and show a more even playing field. The thinking is that all should have a chance and lowering the standards allows everyone a shot even those that were in the past considered unqualified. 

 I would say that a department or agency that has crews that take and pass the CPAT yearly would rank a 7 or less on a scale of 1-10. The test is really not meant to be the best judge of a candidates endurance or physical agility but a way to wed out the weakest of the candidates prior to an offer of employment. Believe it or not there are many candidates that cant even finish the test and the ones that squeak by will often wash out in the academy.

 I do believe all agencies should have some sort of physical testing and it should be geared towards what your regular duties require of you. Most private service EMT's don't need to show a level of endurance that is required of fire academy recruit. Being able to show that you can take care of yourself and your partner and your patient should be the minimum. Showing some basic level of cardio endurance,a good range of motion and the ability to lift your share of load is a good place to start. 

 If your overweight and out of shape your a risk and a liability and should not be expecting to work in this field especially when there are many more qualified applicants including those that put in the time and effort to stay in decent shape. With the job market as tight as it is every applicant needs to have every base covered and being fat and sloppy is only going to hurt you.


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## Level1pedstech (Jan 16, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> MEDIC in Charlotte has a PAT. There's a video here: http://www.medic911.com/careers/medpat_careers



 This should be the minimum requirement for every agency when it comes to the PAT. Its not hard by any stretch of the imagination but with a time limit and the need to keep moving its a good demonstration of a candidates basic physical ability. If I were an employer I would feel comfortable knowing my people were fit to do their jobs and would have less injuries and downtime because of it. A little more demonstration of a candidates above average cardio ability like an extended stair climb event would be nice but its a great start. My only question is how many out there working right now would be able to pass that test?


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## Aerin-Sol (Jan 16, 2011)

Level1pedstech said:


> If your overweight and out of shape your a risk and a liability and should not be expecting to work in this field especially when there are many more qualified applicants including those that put in the time and effort to stay in decent shape. With the job market as tight as it is every applicant needs to have every base covered and being fat and sloppy is only going to hurt you.



Maybe that's true for public/FF services, and you can argue that fat people look sloppy/unprofessional, but as a private IFT EMT, I'd much rather work with a 300-pound guy than a guy who is 160 and in good shape. Why?

 1. A 300-lb guy is most likely going to be able to lift more weight, and  
 2. Smaller guys that I've worked with have been *vehemently* opposed to    calling for lift assist, no matter what. 

My service's test is a simple lifting, loading the ambulance, and chest compressions test, and I think that's all that's needed for privates.


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## Asimurk (Jan 16, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> Maybe that's true for public/FF services, and you can argue that fat people look sloppy/unprofessional, but as a private IFT EMT,* I'd much rather work with a 300-pound guy* than a guy who is 160 and in good shape. Why?
> 
> 1. A 300-lb guy is most likely going to be able to lift more weight, and
> 2. Smaller guys that I've worked with have been *vehemently* opposed to    calling for lift assist, no matter what.
> ...



Thanks for the boost! ^_^


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