# Female falls off stool - real scenario



## NoahW5394 (Jul 19, 2016)

A little different from the scenarios I see on here, but I was in this situation. 

You are in a crowded coffee shop sitting against the wall, facing the rest of the patrons. You hear a crash and screams, but cannot see the source. You run over to the area of the crash and see the pt- 22 yo female, laying on the ground holding both hands to her head, doubling over, convulsing and rythmically screaming. All this yet no visual head trauma. 

Fortunately, the barista was familiar with this subj and was aware of her panick attacks. Had she not been there, had you found the pt without anyone who knew her, what do you do? 

My thought is to take steps as if it was a seizure (move objects away, lay jacket under her head, do not restrain). Beyond that, I would be calling ems. What would you guys do from here? Is my instinct right? Any tips on handling/ending a panick attack?


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## Old Tracker (Jul 19, 2016)

In the movies the good guy usually grabs a handful of shirt and slaps the panicee a couple of times. Probably not a good idea in real life, but usually works well in the movies.


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## NoahW5394 (Jul 19, 2016)

Old Tracker said:


> In the movies the good guy usually grabs a handful of shirt and slaps the panicee a couple of times. Probably not a good idea in real life, but usually works well in the movies.


Not sure what bystanders would think here...


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## CALEMT (Jul 19, 2016)

This works good in the movie life, the EMTLIFE not so much. I'm assuming that you're off duty. If I'm in the situation and off duty I'm calling 911 and thats it.


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## NoahW5394 (Jul 19, 2016)

CALEMT said:


> This works good in the movie life, the EMTLIFE not so much. I'm assuming that you're off duty. If I'm in the situation and off duty I'm calling 911 and thats it.



Well I'm a forum ride along, no med job yet to be on duty yet? Would you go and check on the pt?


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## CALEMT (Jul 19, 2016)

If on duty and in uniform then yes you have to. Its called duty to act. If you're off duty and not in uniform then no, you don't even have to call 911.


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## redundantbassist (Jul 20, 2016)

Basic first aid level seizure management as you described, and call 911. 

Most importantly, skedaddle before ems gets there so I don't have to deal with my coworkers on my time off.


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## Summit (Jul 20, 2016)

While screaming during a seizure is not rare, it most often is short and at the start. Most panic attacks do look that much like most seizures. But experience is needed to know what each looks like. So, sure, make sure objects are moved away and airway is OK if you suspect a seizure. And call 911.


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## RedAirplane (Jul 22, 2016)

CALEMT said:


> If on duty and in uniform then yes you have to. Its called duty to act. If you're off duty and not in uniform then no, you don't even have to call 911.



I'd argue that there is *always *the *ethical* duty to act.


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## Tigger (Jul 23, 2016)

RedAirplane said:


> I'd argue that there is *always *the *ethical* duty to act.


I'd argue that using always is not a good idea.


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## redundantbassist (Jul 23, 2016)

Usually?


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## gotbeerz001 (Jul 23, 2016)

RedAirplane said:


> I'd argue that there is *always *the *ethical* duty to act.


Nah. People are usually fine. Plus, without gear, you are really not that helpful. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CALEMT (Jul 23, 2016)

RedAirplane said:


> I'd argue that there is *always *the *ethical* duty to act.



When I'm off duty I'm exactly that. Off duty. All I'm doing is calling 911 and carrying on with my day. I can't speak for everyone else on here, but I get enough of "fighting the grim reaper" and "I do the same thing as doctors at 80mph" at work. As callous as that sounds that has always been my view.


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## TransportJockey (Jul 23, 2016)

RedAirplane said:


> I'd argue that there is *always *the *ethical* duty to act.


I'd argue that my duty to act off duty extends to calling 911 and going about my business


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## redundantbassist (Jul 23, 2016)

Calling 911 gets a patient to a higher level of care, and that is one of the single most important interventions. No, you don't legally even have to do that, but i'd feel pretty bad if I just left her there.


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## Alan L Serve (Jul 27, 2016)

Tigger said:


> I'd argue that using always is not a good idea.


It's always not a good idea to always.


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## Alan L Serve (Jul 27, 2016)

The first thing I'd do in this situation is take a look at the stool. It likely has a loose bolt or a manufacturing defect that is causing people to lose balance and tip over. I mean, gosh! 

Second, this patient needs an appendix transplant. Stat.


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## ThePants (Aug 3, 2016)

Alan L Serve said:


> The first thing I'd do in this situation is take a look at the stool. It likely has a loose bolt or a manufacturing defect that is causing people to lose balance and tip over. I mean, gosh!
> 
> Second, this patient needs an appendix transplant. Stat.



And, if you're in California, don't forget to sue the restaurant for 'mental anguish while masticating'.


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