# IV Question



## TheDoll (Oct 26, 2006)

this might sound strange, but here goes...
i have a friend who has ms, and is going to have to have iv's started on her regularly. i don't know all of the details, but apparently, the hospital wants her husband (with no medical background whatsoever) to learn how to start them on her. he is completely freaked out about this btw. do any of you know people who have at home iv's that someone other than a medical professional starts? i have never heard of anything like this, but i have barely any experience. anyway, i hate the idea of him having to learn on his wifes veins, as they are both totally new to this and both scared. so, i offered to let him learn on my veins. anyway, i'm wondering if any of you have ever heard of anything along these lines (heh--no pun intended)?


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## MMiz (Oct 26, 2006)

I don't see what's so bad about it.  It's not like it's the hardest skill in the world if you're doing it at home.

A course at a community college is going to be less than 10 credits, and practical experience is usually only 10 or so shifts.

Maybe others can offer some better advice


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## TheDoll (Oct 26, 2006)

cool, i told her i didn't think that it would be a big deal once he started learning how to do it. are there any risks involved for me? i don't mind a little pain, but could i get seriously injured?


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## MMiz (Oct 26, 2006)

TheDoll said:


> cool, i told her i didn't think that it would be a big deal once he started learning how to do it. are there any risks involved for me? i don't mind a little pain, but could i get seriously injured?


They shouldn't be giving some person a stock of IVs with the simple instructions to _practice._  There is actual book knowledge and even trainers out there.

You can be seriously injured, though like most things in life the chances are small.  Infection and pain would be my biggest concern... and going to work looking like a user


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 26, 2006)

I wonder why they want I.V. infusion therapy, usually they will try to get home care therapy for that. Although, it might be suggested and yes, family members can learn proper techniques (we teach EMT's, don;t we?...LOL) .. 

More importantly is why is the I.V. being established for fluids, med.'s.. ? Some will perform at home antibiotic therapy, but after a good flush and monitor for signs of infiltration and infection, an IV can be left in place for 2-3 days (dependent on how caustic the med) and again if this is such, a nurse should be performing infusion therapy. 

R/r 911


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## TheDoll (Oct 27, 2006)

thanks so much for the responses. no, i would not let someone stick me without being in a medical environment. we would be at the hospital with a nurse instructing him. as i said before, i have few details, but i do know that this is a family with very little medical coverage. so, having a nurse always start the iv's is something that is becomming very expensive for them. as i learn more i will fill you all in.
i've just never heard of a family member needing to start iv's. however, as i previously stated, i'm very inexperienced in this field.


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## Guardian (Oct 27, 2006)

There is something strange about this, IV is an invasive procedure and shouldn't be done by family at home.  What medical reason short of home health care could this person have for IV therapy?  None I can think of...


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## TheDoll (Oct 27, 2006)

Guardian said:


> There is something strange about this, IV is an invasive procedure and shouldn't be done by family at home.  What medical reason short of home health care could this person have for IV therapy?  None I can think of...


THAT is exactly what sounded weird/fishy to me. however, since i'm so inexperienced in this field, i just figured it was something i didn't know about. as we continue talking about this i will learn more about this. also, i'll update this thread.


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## rescuecpt (Oct 27, 2006)

Have they discussed having a port implanted?  It depends on what the IV's are for.

Also, IVs can usually be left in place for 3 or 4 days, have they considered having a home health aide type of person come change the IV every few days?


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## Jon (Oct 27, 2006)

Ports were designed for regular need for venous access... sounds like a port might not be a bad idea.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 27, 2006)

yeah....why is this pt not having a port placed????? thats what they exist for, repeated veinous access.... discuss this option with the attending


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## BloodNGlory02 (Oct 31, 2006)

Like everyone else, im not sure why they would let Joe Blow start IVs on his wife. There are things like outpatient clinics and home care nurses for these reasons. Not sure the port would work with all MS medications. I just can't imagine being stuck Q3-4 days for new access though.


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## TheDoll (Oct 31, 2006)

BloodNGlory02 said:


> Like everyone else, im not sure why they would let Joe Blow start IVs on his wife. There are things like outpatient clinics and home care nurses for these reasons. Not sure the port would work with all MS medications. I just can't imagine being stuck Q3-4 days for new access though.


well, i think part of the issue might be that she doesn't have insurance. i know that it is expensive for her to go to the hospital every time she needs to have this done. however, keep in mind i think there are some details that i am not aware of.
thanks for all you your responses, everyone, btw! i appreciate any feedback!


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## Flight-LP (Oct 31, 2006)

No IV nor port should be needed, MS meds can be given IM. The problem lies in the insurance issue, MS meds are VERY expensive! Rebiff and Copaxin are both over $500 / per month. The hospital more than likely is only offering pain meds. It is rare for an inpatient to receive MS meds unless that person is already on them. Which makes me raise an eyebrow as to why the IV access is needed (or possibly not needed).

Something is not right here, no hospital in their right mind would recommend a family member to perform this, they would instead refer the patient to a home health agency. There has to be more to this story...............


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## TheDoll (Oct 31, 2006)

there is definately more to the story, as i have previously stated. i just don't know what it is:wacko:  .
if she takes me up on my offer to help her any way that i can, then i'll learn more about what is going on, and i can share it with all of you. even though i think this sounds weird, i have definately heard of familiy members taking care of sick loved-one's at home, and performing things that normally would be taken care of with home health care. i'm not saying this doesn't sound strange, but i can't help but wonder how "far out" it really is--especially with healthcare being the way that it is.


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## trauma1534 (Nov 16, 2006)

Well, I happen to be of the opinion that anyone can learn any skill with the proper training.  Yes, ofcourse there are risks as with any precedure done.  One of the most scarry things that can happen is a peice if the IV cathater breaking off inside the vein and causing an embolism.  This can happen if the cathater is not advanced proberly and gets torn somehow.  

But, as far as him learning to stick his wife, no big deal.  We teach people everyday to start IV's.  What's wrong with it?  Like I said, if properly taught, it's not a hard skill to master.  Don't sweat the small stuff.


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 16, 2006)

Starting IV could be taught to a monkey.. (hey we teach EMT's everyday.. LOL) but the point is ... "Why should he?"... Before, long will we be teaching "How to perform your appendectomy" on DVD?.. It again, not the procedure, but why should a loved one have to? 

Before, long why would the public even need medical care, if they can do it themselves. I feel we have lost the compassion and caring all together... I watched a video a couple of weeks ago, demonstrating an elderly man that was instructed to change dressings and perform wound care, antibiotic therapy on his frail, cancerous spouse.. that he was married to for over 60 years.. He could not "stomach" the mastectomy wounds, with purulent drainage or barely could see the syringe markings... and he got a whole day to learn this technique. As the Home Health Care RN described she could not even teach an experienced nurse, how was she to teach a laymen? 

People deserve to be taken care of ... yes, they should be responsible for their care and assist in it. But, there needs to be a limit.... 

Not everyone is geared and able to stomach our business.. I know, there are many professions, I could not.. 

R/r 911


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## trauma1534 (Nov 22, 2006)

"Starting IV could be taught to a monkey.. (hey we teach EMT's everyday.. LOL)"

I'll tell you again, buddy, you are in the WRONG room!  If you are so anti-EMT, then find a paragod site to join!  These EMT's in here are trying to benifit from the discussions and learn something here.  They don't need you constantly put them down.  Go take up golf or something to take out your anger toward EMT's on, don't bring that crap in here where they are trying to have simple discussions.  Just remember, "you are one patient away from not being a paramedic".  You, too can mess up!  Your attitude is dangerous!!!!


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 22, 2006)

Sorry, again it is apparent you cannot read the intent or reasoning behind my statement. Even you stated "anyone can be taught skills".. which is very true. 

Sorry, I believe in education not training. Knowing why, how and all indications of treatment modalities prior to allowing someone to "start IV's" after a couple week class. Going to a couple night classes for a few weeks does not cut it. So many so called ALS providers having only attended a few nighttime classes and have no understanding of what, why, and side effects of what they are doing. I am sure you have seen and know many of these. Sorry, I prefer to leave training to animals and educating EMS personnel. Any time anyone establishes and starts IV fluids they are changing the osmolarity of the patients hemodynamics. 

If you could understand the reason of my statement that we "train, rather than educate most EMT's, then you would know and understand the difference. Even Pedicurist that cuts and polish nails goes to school longer than most EMT's, much worse a beautician that cuts your hair goes to school longer than most Paramedic courses and yes, they usually pay more for their classes... this is outrageous!.

Yes, I am for EMS.. to upgrade, & to be better! But, we have to change the mentality of wanting to get things the easy way!!...Fast track EMT and even more horrible so-called shake and bake Paramedic programs. 

I have no anger against EMT's.. just do not care to see those that claim to "save lives" .. with a few hundred hour class actually attempt denounce Paramedics? 

I am not worried about being dangerous... I have seen many come and many go. I am very happy at EMS as well as my administrator, physician's and most important from the patient's (by the thank you cards I recieve) they are quite satisfied with my professional care. Do I make mistakes, heck yes.. do I learn off these .. you bet!. 

Those that have been active on this site and others realizes that I am pro EMT and pro EMS .. just because I challenge status quo, does not mean I am anti. At least I am attempting to change it by participating in changing the national EMS education standards. A 800 page textbook cannot begin to cover what is needed to know about emergency care.

Sorry, if I offended anyone...
Have a great day!
R/r911


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## trauma1534 (Nov 25, 2006)

Ridryder911 said:


> Sorry, again it is apparent you cannot read the intent or reasoning behind my statement. Even you stated "anyone can be taught skills".. which is very true.
> 
> Sorry, I believe in education not training. Knowing why, how and all indications of treatment modalities prior to allowing someone to "start IV's" after a couple week class. Going to a couple night classes for a few weeks does not cut it. So many so called ALS providers having only attended a few nighttime classes and have no understanding of what, why, and side effects of what they are doing. I am sure you have seen and know many of these. Sorry, I prefer to leave training to animals and educating EMS personnel. Any time anyone establishes and starts IV fluids they are changing the osmolarity of the patients hemodynamics.
> 
> ...




While your apoligy is excepted, I still wish you could find something better to do besides always making wise cracks towards EMT-B's.  I understand your frustration in the curriculam these days.  I thought the old EMT-A curriculam was much better.  Sometimes I scratch my head when I see how some instructors just teach them to pass the test and not how to be a good EMT-B.  However, we are not accomplishing anything by putting them down and fussing about it.  And not all EMT-B's are idiots.  You would do EMS better justice by trying to help these EMT's to bloom as providers instead of bashing them all the time.  No matter how you plan for it to come out, you portray yourself as someone who hates the level of EMT-B and you insinuate that they are of no use in the back of an ambulance.  You should watch how you word things if you want people to take it like you mean it.  I think they need all the encouragement they can get because of the way that people such as yourself say things.

And one more thing... I read what you wrote about any barney can carry a gun.  As I recall, Barney's character was someone who tried to act like he always came up with the great ideas, like he was the smartest of them all.  Andy was always just supporting his mentality by making him think that so Barney wouldn't fall to peices.  If anyone has the Barney mentality, it is you!  You are the one always trying to look all big and bad on EVERY topic that comes up on the board.  YOU are the one who is always trying to make people feel inferior to you!  So, before you go trying to compair my friends to "Barney", look in the mirror!


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## jeepmedic (Nov 25, 2006)

If good ole Barney can start an IV why can't anyone else


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## DT4EMS (Nov 25, 2006)

I must have missed something.

I just want to point out that Rid always tries to give a good anwer to EMS related questions. There was a time I thought he came across a little harsh, but when you dug deeper the true meaning came out.

Rid has offered help to tons of folks on different EMS sites. He does offer a wealth of knowledge to those who would ask...............myself included.

I came to EMTlife because I was tired of the arrogance seen at other EMS sites. There are a couple where guys who may have worked a shift or two claim to be Gods among men. 

At least here there is very little if any in the way of pissing matches.

I sincerely hope the attitudes that drove so many away from other places don't surface here.

People know I am passionate about the safety of EMS and can come across wrong when it comes to training EMS on real-world safety skills and I think that may be the case with RId.

He is passionate about EMS education and may be taken wrong sometimes. But his message still holds truth.

Just my humble opinion.


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## ffemt8978 (Nov 25, 2006)

Okay folks, it seems some of us need a refresher on the forum rules, especially rule #1.  For those of you that can't find them, they are located here under the FAQ section

Suffice it to say that certain members (and you should know who you are), now have my complete and undivided attention.

You may disagree with someone here, but remember
Keep it clean...
Keep it civil...
Keep it respectful...


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## Guardian (Nov 25, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> "Starting IV could be taught to a monkey.. (hey we teach EMT's everyday.. LOL)"
> 
> I'll tell you again, buddy, you are in the WRONG room!  If you are so anti-EMT, then find a paragod site to join!  These EMT's in here are trying to benifit from the discussions and learn something here.  They don't need you constantly put them down.  Go take up golf or something to take out your anger toward EMT's on, don't bring that crap in here where they are trying to have simple discussions.  Just remember, "you are one patient away from not being a paramedic".  You, too can mess up!  Your attitude is dangerous!!!!




I love it when new people come in and start demanding that other more experienced people leave because most of the time, these new people aren't fit to shine these experienced people's shoes.


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## trauma1534 (Nov 26, 2006)

Guardian said:


> I love it when new people come in and start demanding that other more experienced people leave because most of the time, these new people aren't fit to shine these experienced people's shoes.



Now that was an insult!!!!  

I am not here to demand anything of anyone except that Rid needs to show some respect for EMT-B's.  That is insulting to them.  All I am doing is trying to stand up for what this site was made for.  EMT's.  You must understand.  It bothers me to no end for someone to constantly bash those who try hard everyday to learn and do the best they can.  I can't help the system any more than anyone else can, but the fact is that EMT-B's should not be ridiculed.  If you will look back on the earlier posts that started this, he compared EMT-B's to monkeys.  That is what got me like this in this room.  If you look at the other rooms, I am totally respectfull until someone starts bashing EMT-B's.  And so far the one who is doing it is Ridryder.  

Experienced?  I have years of experience in EMS.  I am doing nothing wrong by taking up for the people who are not paramedics.  It does not matter what topic is posted, ridryder is always comming in there trying to dominate the forum, and alot of times it is insulting to those of lesser training than he.  The thing that started the Barney Fife thing, is he told one of my best friends who happends to be one of the best paramedics I know and is a federal officer that they would let any old Barney carry a gun.  I was just explaining to him what the charactor of Barney was.  If you would open your eyes and see, it is ridryder who is insulting everyone on here.  Not me.  I am just trying to take up for those he is insulting.  

I am in here to share my experiences with everyone else.  It does not need to be ruined by someone like that, everytime something is said he doesn't agree with he insults.  I am just tired of it.  And by the way, I am not new.  I have been a member for quite some time.  I remember when Ridryder came to this site, and I also remember that he is why I stopped posting herem, due to his paragod attitude and trying to take controle of eevery topic posted.  But, he will not run me off this time.  We could not have a decent discussion going for him comming in and taking it over with is insulting comments.  I don't take that off of anyone, and I'm not going to start with him!!!  I have just as much right to be here as anyone else does.  

I'm not fit to shine his shoes???  You don't even know me!!!  Maybe you are not even fit to carry my jump bag, I don't know!  But, I have not insulted you, and you have no right to insult me!

**Edited**


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 26, 2006)

Personally, these are EMS forums. I post due to vast majority of EMT's that post are usually newbies and wannabes. Many times erroneous/misinformation is given out, true professionals with in-depth EMS experience is very rare. More than riding in a ambulance, is sometimes needed to discuss the EMS system. 

When approached to be able to name committees, or ad-hoc sessions that they are participating on, or even served upon, most usually fall short. Most cannot even tell you who is in even in charge of the EMT criteria in their state or nationally.  Furthermore, I have found a lot of  of these EMS personnel are not able to see the forest for the trees. Many only see day by day operations and wanting to give & get "fuzzy warm feelings". That is fine if that is what they want post.. and receive. 

I don't post to give or receive either. I read and post to see new changes, discuss the problems in the profession, to review new changes that are occurring, and ways I can improve myself and the EMS system profession as a whole. My posts on IV's was more in regards of the piss poor "training" system we have in lieu of a truly educational system. 

I know, I have learned off many others from EMS forums all with variable certs and license and have became friends and personally met many of those as well. 

EMS is changing both in medical and professional growth. I do believe it is the place of the forums to educationally discuss and even debate things, as long as it is not anecdotal, it should be scientific, based upon medical findings, professional literature without feelings. We all have personal feelings, but it is irregardless what we feel if we cannot scientifically back those statements up. Otherwise it would be an opinon and we all know what they say about opinons.

If EMS is to ever really grow. We should be discussing medical research, possible paradigm changes, new methodology of treatment, EMT license and certification changes, as well one should have an open and educated mind. Although, I may not agree 100% of the time, as an educated person, I must evaluate the pro's and con's and then make my determination, albeit it may not really matter what I think. I usually post links or an article to back up my findings, other wise again it would be a personal opinion.

The difference between many of you and me is I look into the future of EMS. Five to 15 years, not just the immediate. The EMS system is currently on life support, and some states have a DNR.. There are immediate dangers in EMS. Some of these topics are being able to fund rural departments, the increasing liability and litigation against volunteers, cities being sued for only providing BLS services, shortage of Paramedics and the overabundance of basic EMT's. Not to even mention the poor education level and admittance criteria that is continuing at the EMS education and institutions. 

There are a lot more problems to discuss than rants... I apologised once. I will try to clarify if you cannot understand the point, or innuendos. I have nothing to prove to anyone, only to promote, educate, investigate the profession of EMS. 

I do respect the administration of the forum and their policies.

Respectfully, 
R/r 911


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## Guardian (Nov 26, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:


> Okay folks, it seems some of us need a refresher on the forum rules, especially rule #1.  For those of you that can't find them, they are located here under the FAQ section
> 
> Suffice it to say that certain members (and you should know who you are), now have my complete and undivided attention.
> 
> ...






they trying to catch us postin' dirty.


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## jeepmedic (Nov 26, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> If good ole Barney can start an IV why can't anyone else



This was ment as a joke to an earlier post by someone else. I will not name names. It was however ment toward me and my kind. I did not take insult to it I am not that thined skinned. What I was saying here is if I can do it anyone can.

People here need to lighten up and Just smile. Makes 'em wonder what you are thinking.


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## trauma1534 (Nov 27, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> This was ment as a joke to an earlier post by someone else. I will not name names. It was however ment toward me and my kind. I did not take insult to it I am not that thined skinned. What I was saying here is if I can do it anyone can.
> 
> People here need to lighten up and Just smile. Makes 'em wonder what you are thinking.




Yeah, ya ignorant flunkie!  lol


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## jeepmedic (Nov 27, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Yeah, ya ignorant flunkie!  lol



I resemble that remark


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## Fedmedic (Nov 27, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Yeah, ya ignorant flunkie!  lol



That's ignorant, pill pushing flunkie to you.....Let's get it right!!


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## jeepmedic (Nov 27, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> That's ignorant, pill pushing flunkie to you.....Let's get it right!!



Yea get it right you degenrate


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## SC_EMT (Nov 27, 2006)

If you don't like Rids's comments or find them insulting, DON'T READ EM'. I am an EMT-B and I understand and am not offended, and TRAUMA!!! have you noticed you are the only one complaining. If you don't like it, dont read it BOTTOM LINE!!


Brian


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## Guardian (Nov 27, 2006)

I've got the skin of a 29 week old preemie, I can't survive all this abuse...the sheriff needs to come in here and flush you bad apples out of here. :sad:


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## trauma1534 (Nov 27, 2006)

SC_EMT said:


> If you don't like Rids's comments or find them insulting, DON'T READ EM'. I am an EMT-B and I understand and am not offended, and TRAUMA!!! have you noticed you are the only one complaining. If you don't like it, dont read it BOTTOM LINE!!
> 
> 
> Brian



Dude, you must have missed something here!  I am not the only one comeplaining, you should read the whole thread and others before you single me out!!!  If you don't like my comments, you don't have to read them either.  I think what is good for one is good for everyone!


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## trauma1534 (Nov 27, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> Yea get it right you degenrate



Let me tell you something you old *&*$ bag!!!  You need to learn to respect!  You freaking idiot! LOL


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## trauma1534 (Nov 27, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> That's ignorant, pill pushing flunkie to you.....Let's get it right!!




You forgot idiot!  Let me put it together for you, you ignorant, pill pushing, flunkie idiot!!!!!!


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## trauma1534 (Nov 27, 2006)

Guardian said:


> I've got the skin of a 29 week old preemie, I can't survive all this abuse...the sheriff needs to come in here and flush you bad apples out of here. :sad:



you are being ugly!!!!  Be pretty!


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## TheDoll (Nov 27, 2006)

oh, no! i didn't mean for this thread to turn into trauma drama! thanks for all of the helpful replies, and i certainly haven't been offended by anyone here. anyway, when i finally learn some more info on this subject, i'll be sure to give you the details. perhaps that will clarify some things for all of us. oh, and for the record....you're all monkeys!!! 

jk!


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## jeepmedic (Nov 27, 2006)

TheDoll said:


> oh, and for the record....you're all monkeys!!!
> 
> jk!



Why Thank you. We are a disfuntional group.


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## TheDoll (Nov 27, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> Why Thank you. We are a disfuntional group.



i'm just glad i found a place where i fit in


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