# Zoo security stops EMS from reaching boy injured by camel in park



## ArcticKat (May 26, 2011)

KNOXVILLE — Medical personnel were denied entry to the Knoxville Zoo today because of a “communications issue” after a 5-year-old boy was injured by a camel, according to the zoo director.

The boy was hurt just before noon when a 400-pound baby camel was startled and trapped the boy between its legs and a fence, authorities said.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/may/19/zoo-security-stops-ems-reaching-boy-injured-camel/


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## mycrofft (May 26, 2011)

*Title suggestion: Zoo Security Seals Zoo, Ignorant of Child's Injury*

We used to have instances at my work where a LVN or aid would call 911 and not tell Custody...


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## rogersam5 (May 28, 2011)

My question is why keep EMS out? They arn't smuggling the camel in!


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## LucidResq (May 28, 2011)

When you're responding to a large public gathering space such a zoo, amusement park, or mall, I think it's a very good idea to have dispatch notify security on site while you're en route. It's good to have everyone on board and security is usually helpful as far as providing access to secured areas, extra crowd control, etc.


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## abckidsmom (May 29, 2011)

LucidResq said:


> When you're responding to a large public gathering space such a zoo, amusement park, or mall, I think it's a very good idea to have dispatch notify security on site while you're en route. It's good to have everyone on board and security is usually helpful as far as providing access to secured areas, extra crowd control, etc.



Right.  Really though, the dispatcher should have caught this in the call taking.  911 call from a public facility like that originating from someone other than the staff of the facility?   Should have merited a call to security.   That's just good practice.

Where I worked, if we coded the address and it came up as a business (or the other way around...coding the business to get the address) either way, the cad would give us the security and admin contact numbers for the place.


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## LucidResq (May 29, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Right.  Really though, the dispatcher should have caught this in the call taking.  911 call from a public facility like that originating from someone other than the staff of the facility?   Should have merited a call to security.   That's just good practice.
> 
> Where I worked, if we coded the address and it came up as a business (or the other way around...coding the business to get the address) either way, the cad would give us the security and admin contact numbers for the place.



Totally agree, and this is protocol for us as well. If your dispatch isn't as on top of it though, you might need to prompt them, I suppose.


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## jjesusfreak01 (May 29, 2011)

While I completely agree that dispatch should contact security in these situations, the security guards should never ever stop uniformed badged EMS providers who show up and say there's a patient inside. It opens up the facility to liability for any complications caused by the delay, and how many instances are there of medics showing up in an ambulance so they can get into the zoo for free?


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## akflightmedic (May 29, 2011)

Did you not read that the security were doing exactly what they were trained to do...all they knew was an animal was on the loose. As information was coming in, they responded appropriately but absolutely they should deny entry to everyone, including EMS workers.


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## firecoins (May 29, 2011)

EMS should not respond to unsafe scenes and security had reports of an animal on the loose. Let them get the scene safe.


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## HotelCo (May 29, 2011)

firecoins said:


> EMS should not respond to unsafe scenes and security had reports of an animal on the loose. Let them get the scene safe.



It's a camel, not a tiger...


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## akflightmedic (May 29, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> It's a camel, not a tiger...



Initial reports were of an animal on loose...do you want to make assumptions when responding to a zoo or would you rather wait for factual information and declaration of a safe scene? Are you an animal expert or would you let the handlers secure it first?

Have you been around camels much? They can and will kill you...just because he looks cute standing in his cage and chewing straw does not mean that is always his temperament. Obviously this one was already spooked...

Wanna be a hero...do it on your own time.


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## firecoins (May 29, 2011)

The Bronx Zoo is down the block from where I work.  They have had a poisonous snake escape within the last 2 months and some sort of bird 2 weeks ago.  If I am responding to a call there and security prevents us from responding because there is an escaped animal, we will wait until its deemed clear for us to go in.


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## HotelCo (May 29, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> Wanna be a hero...do it on your own time.



If you have read any of my posts in any of the scene safety threads, you'll see that I'm a very big proponent of scene safety.

Now, with that out of the way...




akflightmedic said:


> Initial reports were of an animal on loose...do you want to make assumptions when responding to a zoo or would you rather wait for factual information and declaration of a safe scene? Are you an animal expert or would you let the handlers secure it first?
> 
> Initial reports were of an animal on loose...do you want to make assumptions when responding to a zoo or would you rather wait for factual information and declaration of a safe scene? Are you an animal expert or would you let the handlers secure it first?



I'll admit that I wasn't aware that the initial reports were of an animal on the loose. Foolish me thought that anyone in the zoo would be able to identify a camel, as opposed to a penguin, or chimpanzee.


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## HotelCo (May 29, 2011)

The Detroit Zoo has EMS onsite. Just throwing that out there.


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## firecoins (May 29, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> If you have read any of my posts in any of the scene safety threads, you'll see that I'm a very big proponent of scene safety.
> 
> Now, with that out of the way...
> 
> ...


you don't seem to care about scene safety here oddly enough.   You want ignore security and rush in.  Not much on scene safety.  Sorry.


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## HotelCo (May 29, 2011)

firecoins said:


> you don't seem to care about scene safety here oddly enough.   You want ignore security and rush in.  Not much on scene safety.  Sorry.



Very well.


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## nemedic (May 30, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Very well.



I'm surprised that nobody has suggested this yet.........if I was allowed to carry (preferably concealed) on duty, the camel wouldn't be a problem......h34r:


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## nemedic (May 30, 2011)

Or a Tiger either, for that matter.


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## Chimpie (May 30, 2011)

Let's get this back on topic please.


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## firecoins (May 30, 2011)

I am not sure the best method for scene safety is for EMS to shoot a zoo animal.  Just let the zoo staff get the scene safe or bring the patient too you.


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## fortsmithman (May 30, 2011)

nemedic said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has suggested this yet.........if I was allowed to carry (preferably concealed) on duty, the camel wouldn't be a problem......h34r:





nemedic said:


> Or a Tiger either, for that matter.



Shoot a tiger with a pistol that would only make it madder because for a tiger either a 12 gauge with at least 00 buck or a rifle is what one would use.


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## nemedic (May 30, 2011)

I would go with the .50 Deagle, if not the Barrett hidden under the bench


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## nemedic (May 30, 2011)

nemedic said:


> I would go with the .50 Deagle, if not the Barrett hidden under the bench



And I have actually seen a Barrett .50 under a bench seat at a company I vollied with during the summer in ME


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## usalsfyre (May 30, 2011)

The minimum caliber for dangerous game in Africa is generally .375 H&H, keep that in mind for your cartridge selection.

Quite simply, if security at some place like a zoo, or an industrial complex, or a military installation tells me it's not safe to enter, I'm inclined to believe them.


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## emt seeking first job (Jun 7, 2011)

*Most conflicts in life are a lack of communication:*

The Zoo Security Dispatcher could have had a scanner to hear the EMS was enroute. The EMS dispatcher could have called the zoo.

The secuirty could have escorted EMS in and have them standby while they ensure scene is safe.


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## emt seeking first job (Jun 7, 2011)

*just saying...*



HotelCo said:


> It's a camel, not a tiger...





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-476349/Camel-killed-woman-trying-sex-her.html

http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/camel-kills-100-year-old-man-in-saudi-2010-12-03-1.324365


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## Chimpie (Jun 7, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> The secuirty could have escorted EMS in and have them standby while they ensure scene is safe.



At that point, the scene was determined to be unsafe by security, hence why they didn't let EMS in.


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## emt seeking first job (Jun 7, 2011)

Chimpie said:


> At that point, the scene was determined to be unsafe by security, hence why they didn't let EMS in.




Without hearing both side of the story, my hunch is that is what happened.

The media loves stories of responders doing nothing.

There is always 'staging' for the public, putting on a 'show' , in hindsight, the security could have brought them onto the complex a little closer to the scene, so there would be a public perception of standing by.

The general public is ignorent about most operational realities but at the same time we dont work in a vacumn.

I do not blame the rank and file, the bosses could have done a little more policy and protocol wise to placate the reality of public perceptions.


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## Chimpie (Jun 7, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> There is always 'staging' for the public, putting on a 'show' ,....



What?


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## HotelCo (Jun 7, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-476349/Camel-killed-woman-trying-sex-her.html
> 
> http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/camel-kills-100-year-old-man-in-saudi-2010-12-03-1.324365



Yes, I can google things too...


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## JPINFV (Jun 7, 2011)

fortsmithman said:


> Shoot a tiger with a pistol that would only make it madder because for a tiger either a 12 gauge with at least 00 buck or a rifle is what one would use.


Pfft... tigers...


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