# EMT-B ... What do you learn?



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

*Forgive me but I did not see this type of thread in this forum, I did do a search by the way.*

Hello, I just joined an ambulance squad and aside from all the other training I am recieving I just wanted to know the basics about _what you learn as an EMT-B_. I know that the type of education you recieve varies by state but as long as I know the bullet points I feel I will better prepared. 

I live in New Jersey so if somebody could just give me a link or post the specifics I'd greatly appeciate it, thanks.


----------



## medicdan (Jan 9, 2009)

All EMT-B courses in the US are based on the same curriculum, developed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
An overview can be found here:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/ems/pub/emtbnsc.pdf

EMS and EMS training are a bit different in NJ then anywhere else in the country in terms of system structure, and proiorities, but the education is the same. Info can he found here:
http://www.state.nj.us/health/ems/emt.shtml

Any other questions?


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 9, 2009)

Can I just leave the answer to the question, "What did I learn?" as "not enough."


----------



## firecoins (Jan 9, 2009)

The EMT course is horribly short on information.


----------



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

emt-student said:


> All EMT-B courses in the US are based on the same curriculum, developed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
> An overview can be found here:
> http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/ems/pub/emtbnsc.pdf
> 
> ...



Sorry, but the first link you posted leads me to a dead page.

And thanks, I've already read through the State of New Jersey's website, however I'm looking for what exactly I'll be learning.

I.e, extractions, basic first aid, etc. 



JPINFV said:


> Can I just leave the answer to the question, "What did I learn?" as "not enough."



Really? 



firecoins said:


> The EMT course is horribly short on information.



Does it matter if the course is given in NJ?


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 9, 2009)

Everett said:


> Really?


I dare anyone to take a college level anatomy and a college level physiology course and tell me that how they approach patients and treatment is not completely different and better due to it. You simply can't learn a working level of A/P is the 2 hours budgeted in the NHTSA curriculum. Heck, the amount of A/P I got in my undergrad as determined by hours (and this was the quarter system) would have been over half the class time. 

Alternatively, I'll give anyone the chance to explain why someone providing medical care without direct supervision based off of their own assessment   should only have a cursory understanding of A/P.


Just curious, do you have Adobe Acrobat Reader (or the full Acrobat software) downloaded on your computer? That link worked for me.


----------



## reaper (Jan 9, 2009)

Question, Are you an EMT-B or going into the traing? I got confused because in your intro post you stated that you were an EMT-B!

Which is it?


----------



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

reaper said:


> Question, Are you an EMT-B or going into the traing? I got confused because in your intro post you stated that you were an EMT-B!
> 
> Which is it?



Well due to the my current traing now, and the training I will be taking as an EMT-B, I won't have much time to really log on here. I myself am only certified in CPR and BLS, however then next time I log on I will be certified so thats why I introduced myself as having the certification.

Confusing?


----------



## reaper (Jan 9, 2009)

A little.

NJ allows 16 yea olds to take the EMT-B test?


----------



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

reaper said:


> A little.
> 
> NJ allows 16 yea olds to take the EMT-B test?



Well if you take the course provided by an accredited agency you will have to take the test in order to get your card. If I had a scanner I'd scan you an image of my EMT card given to me by my Squad. It already has my EMT-B certification on because their paying for my course.


----------



## reaper (Jan 9, 2009)

I know NJ is backwards when it comes to EMS, but that just sounds fishy! A squad can issue their own EMT certs to someone and give them a cert before they are trained?

No offense, but I will do my best to stay out of NJ!!!!!!


----------



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

reaper said:


> I know NJ is backwards when it comes to EMS, but that just sounds fishy! A squad can issue their own EMT certs to someone and give them a cert before they are trained?
> 
> No offense, but I will do my best to stay out of NJ!!!!!!



Ha ha ha, no no no, these cards are issued by the First Aid Council of New Jersey and believe it or not all the EMS agencies that I know of in NJ, there are a lot of smart, helpful, and skilled people working there.


----------



## reaper (Jan 9, 2009)

Ok, just wondering.


----------



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

reaper said:


> Ok, just wondering.



No Problem, and trust me I now NJ is backwards ... look at our Govenor? h34r:

<.<


----------



## rogersam5 (Jan 9, 2009)

Never mind..... Missed abuch


----------



## Everett (Jan 9, 2009)

rogersam5 said:


> So they gave you a card saying your an EMT-B even though you haven't finished the course? :huh:



Yes and no.
Its a new year so everyone, in my area, is getting their new ID's.
This Wednesday at 6:30 all of our squad goes to get our pictures taken for our new ID's with our information on it. Because I just joined and I'll be starting EMT School soon there putting my info down already on the card.
I know it sounds confusing . . .


----------



## medicdan (Jan 9, 2009)

They are making you an ID card, not a certification card, right? It's also that your First Aid Squad isnt paying for your training the strate is, right?

Shouldnt you know what is in your EMT class before you sign up to take it? Shouldnt you have been given an idea of the skills and knowledge taught? What your role in going to be? How long the course is going to take? What is going to be asked of you...? Wouldnt those be logical questions to ask your instructor before beginning a class, instead of an internet forum?


----------



## Everett (Jan 10, 2009)

emt-student said:


> They are making you an ID card, not a certification card, right? It's also that your First Aid Squad isnt paying for your training the strate is, right?
> 
> Shouldnt you know what is in your EMT class before you sign up to take it? Shouldnt you have been given an idea of the skills and knowledge taught? What your role in going to be? How long the course is going to take? What is going to be asked of you...? Wouldnt those be logical questions to ask your instructor before beginning a class, instead of an internet forum?



Yes but the Chief who signed me up is having some family emergencies and he hasn't been around the station so I haven't had the chance to ask him.


----------



## EMTinNEPA (Jan 10, 2009)

Here's the table of contents from the textbook my class used ("Emergency Care", Tenth Edition)

Chapter 1: Introduction to Emergency Medical Care
Chapter 2: The Well-Being of the EMT-Basic
Chapter 3: Medical/Legal and Ethical Issues
Chapter 4: The Human Body
Chapter 5: Lifting and Moving Patients
Chapter 6: Airway Management
Chapter 7: Scene Size-Up
Chapter 8: The Initial Assessment
Chapter 9: Vital Signs and SAMPLE History
Chapter 10: Assessment of the Trauma Patient
Chapter 11: Assessment of the Medical Patient
Chapter 12: Ongoing Assessment
Chapter 13: Communications
Chapter 14: Documentation
Chapter 15: General Pharmacology
Chapter 16: Respiratory Emergencies
Chapter 17: Cardiac Emergencies
Chapter 18: Acute Abdominal Emergencies
Chapter 19: Diabetic Emergencies and Altered Mental Status
Chapter 20: Allergic Reactions
Chapter 21: Poisoning and Overdose Emergencies
Chapter 22: Environmental Emergencies
Chapter 23: Behavioral Emergencies
Chapter 24: Obstetric and Gynecological Emergencies
Chapter 25: Putting It All Together for the Medical Patient
Chapter 26: Bleeding and Shock
Chapter 27: Soft-Tissue Injuries
Chapter 28: Musculoskeletal Injuries
Chapter 29: Injuries to the Head and Spine
Chapter 30: Putting It All Together for the Trauma Patient
Chapter 31: Infants and Children
Chapter 32: Geriatric Patients
Chapter 33: Ambulance Operations
Chapter 34: Gaining Access and Rescue Operations
Chapter 35: Special Operations
Chapter 36: Terrorism and EMS
Chapter 37: Advanced Airway Management

But once you're out in the field, THAT'S when the REAL learning begins.


----------



## firecoins (Jan 10, 2009)

Everett said:


> Does it matter if the course is given in NJ?



Nope.  The material is pretty much the same everywhere.


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 10, 2009)

EMTinNEPA said:


> But once you're out in the field, THAT'S when the REAL learning begins.



Only because the current curriculum fails to ensure that providers actually know what they're doing prior to certification.


----------



## EMTinNEPA (Jan 10, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Only because the current curriculum fails to ensure that providers actually know what they're doing prior to certification.



Yup.

Added for the benefit of the ridiculous ten characters rule.


----------



## KEVD18 (Jan 10, 2009)

Everett said:


> Well due to the my current traing now, and the training I will be taking as an EMT-B, I won't have much time to really log on here. I myself am only certified in CPR and BLS, however then next time I log on I will be certified so thats why I introduced myself as having the certification.
> 
> Confusing?


 
please feel free to go ahead and reduce your level of training to "student" or similiar.

emt-b isnt much of a certification. it doesent take that long to get and it doesnt take a genious to acheive it; but if you havent earned it, its disrespectful to identify yourself as someone who has.

once that has been done, i personally will be happy to help you with your quest for knowledge, but not until then.


----------



## BEorP (Jan 10, 2009)

Everett said:


> Yes and no.
> Its a new year so everyone, in my area, is getting their new ID's.
> This Wednesday at 6:30 all of our squad goes to get our pictures taken for our new ID's with our information on it. Because I just joined and I'll be starting EMT School soon there putting my info down already on the card.
> I know it sounds confusing . . .



It really doesn't confuse me at all. You have an ID card that says you're certified as an EMT-B. You are not certified as en EMT-B. Pretty simple.


----------



## firecoins (Jan 10, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Only because the current curriculum fails to ensure that providers actually know what they're doing prior to certification.



Well there is always going to be certain amount of learning that can only take place on the job but that is true everywhere.


----------



## BossyCow (Jan 10, 2009)

If you want to be any good at all, it's not so much about what you are taught in EMT class but how much of a committment are you going to make to continue that learning after you get your cert. 

Too many get the card in the mail and figure they know enough or worse yet.. that they know it all. Add a few hundred calls under their belt and they assume they are experts. This is not the case. If you want to be any good at all in this line of work, your learning will be constant. You will sign up for classes with the fervor of a coke addict laying out his next couple of lines. A bad call will send you to the internet, books, local paramedic, MPD, and any authority who is willing to listen to your questions, increasing your knowledge so that type of call won't throw you the next time, but it does.. and it will.. and every time, you go back to education for the preparedness you lacked. 

There are a lot of EMTs out there who feel their cert gives them all the info they need and will jump with both feet all over anyone who says that EMT is a very minimal training. But the reality is, we can only attempt to stabilize and transport. Yes this is valuable and in some cases we make a difference to the patient. Those times are rare and wonderful gems. But a sense of reality about the limitations of our education is necessary. Without it we don't improve.


----------



## Everett (Jan 10, 2009)

Wow, I kinda feel like I'm being ganged up on here.

*Backs away*

Okay, I'll change my status. 



EMTinNEPA said:


> Here's the table of contents from the textbook my class used ("Emergency Care", Tenth Edition)
> 
> Chapter 1: Introduction to Emergency Medical Care
> Chapter 2: The Well-Being of the EMT-Basic
> ...




Thank you very much, this helps me a lot! 

*Gives you kudos*


----------



## Lin57EMT (Jan 10, 2009)

Everett,

While nobody is TRYING to gang up on you, they ARE responding with a healthy bit of huff that is deserved.  They have done the time, worked hard in class, studied, worried, studied more, second-guessed themselves, been proven wrong, done stupid things, studied even harder, been tested and passed...in short, they have EARNED the right to call themselves certified EMTs.  Being an EMT is being part of a club where everyone has had to do almost the exact same handstands to get in, and you're proud to have achieved it.  To have someone come along who is just 16, which is 2 years away from being certified (18 is the minimum age), and call himself an EMT is a bit off-putting.  Be lenient with them - their whole psyche is set up for accuracy in word and deed, so they (understandably) have little tolerance for rule-benders.  It's great that you're this enthusiastic, and your obvious ambition will carry you far, so don't lose that drive.  Just represent yourself with honesty at all times concerning your certification status and you'll do just fine.

Before you get very disappointed, double-check the minimum age requirement for EMT-B in your state.  In New York you must be 18 at the time of your state exam.  It is possible that whoever is issuing your ID tags at your station isn't aware of your actual age, or maybe is not aware of the minimum age for EMTs, causing them to issue you an unintentionally erroneous ID.  You want to be VERY careful that you don't appear on any EMS scene with an ID tag that announces you as something you are not.  It is illegal, dangerous and can be potentially harmful to patients who look to you for help based on what your tag says.  You and your squad could be sued for misrepresentation, at the least.

Regarding the comment that the training received as an EMT is "not enough", I laugh while I agree.  On the day you receive your official State Certification and state-issued EMT-B ID card, you can consider yourself "minimally trained" to respond to calls.  You have not COMPLETED anything on that day - rather, you have just received permission to BEGIN your EMT career.  Respond to every call you can manage, take every CME you can get to, volunteer for every stand-by, every extra detail, every training session, and never miss a drill.  By doing that, you will be doing the very best for yourself, your squad, your crew, and most importantly, your patient.  

One thing every (smart) EMT will tell you is that they NEVER stop being a student, never stop learning.  Every call, every patient, guarantees you have never seen that EXACT thing before, and so you have an opportunity to learn.

Good luck to you, Everett.  Hang in there through the hard stuff, and keep your ears open at all times (that only works well if the mouth is shut, lol!).  Best wishes to you for a long and successful EMT career!


----------



## hunt11er9999 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Is it possible to work private and public?*

Hey, I was wanting to work for private (paid) and volunteer public (20 hours a month) at the same time?  Is this possible or can you only be affiliated with one sector at a time?  (WA state, King county)


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 10, 2009)

Depends on protocols and policies of the departments you work and volunteer for. Some agencies require mandatory overtime or the ability to call people into work at anytime if people call off. They may also have a non-compete clause that can cause headaches by working for two EMS agencies at the same time. I would suggest that you talk with the agencies involved, even if you do it anonymously (call up, talk to HR, and simply say something along the lines of "I'd like to ask a few questions about employment" without mentioning your name).


----------



## Elliot (Jan 10, 2009)

Goodluck!  just remember the best emts/medics dont know everything,  and the ones that say they do prob. don't know very much.


----------



## artman17847 (Jan 10, 2009)

I thought NJ had some kind of proventional EMT cert until one becomes 18 and can be in charge of a crew?

Not sure though.


----------



## rhan101277 (Jan 10, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Only because the current curriculum fails to ensure that providers actually know what they're doing prior to certification.



Well I guess this is true, because we all see situations the first time sometimes.  My class was really stringent, I felt like I knew what I was doing.  Now I don't know it all, and sometimes I do second guess stuff.  We had through practicals and clinicals, it addition to a final exam and then NREMT.  You think there should be more clinicals, is that what you mean?  Maybe 40 hours of ambulance rides and 40 hours of ER?


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 10, 2009)

rhan101277 said:


> You think there should be more clinicals, is that what you mean?  Maybe 40 hours of ambulance rides and 40 hours of ER?



That would be one thing. Another thing would be college level A/P. I think I had about the same level A/P in middle school as what I had during my EMT-B course. After all, how could anyone begin to make an informed assessment of a patient if they don't understand in detail how the body works?


----------



## reaper (Jan 10, 2009)

I remember my EMT class was a lot tougher. We had class 8 hours a day X 5 days a week X 20 weeks. We were required 84 hours of ambulance time, 84 hours of ER time, 24 hours of peds rotation and 24 hours of psych rotation.

I think all should require this, but it will never happen!


----------



## JAM-EMT (Jan 11, 2009)

reaper said:


> I remember my EMT class was a lot tougher. We had class 8 hours a day X 5 days a week X 20 weeks. We were required 84 hours of ambulance time, 84 hours of ER time, 24 hours of peds rotation and 24 hours of psych rotation.
> 
> I think all should require this, but it will never happen!



That much practical experience?! Lucky..mine only required 10 hours but i got 24.


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jan 11, 2009)

reaper said:


> I remember my EMT class was a lot tougher. We had class 8 hours a day X 5 days a week X 20 weeks. We were required 84 hours of ambulance time, 84 hours of ER time, 24 hours of peds rotation and 24 hours of psych rotation.
> 
> I think all should require this, but it will never happen!



I agree...unfortunately, our state has gone to a patient contact quota instead of hours.  For the EMT-B, I think it's something like 10 patient contacts...uggghhh:angry:


----------



## EMTCop86 (Jan 11, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> I agree...unfortunately, our state has gone to a patient contact quota instead of hours. For the EMT-B, I think it's something like 10 patient contacts...uggghhh:angry:


 
For my class in CA we have to have 40 hours of field or clinical or combo of both and a minimum of 5 patients. I think it should be a lot more. I took my MFR and it was a breeze but I didn't really learn anything until I was out on medical aids and doing hands on.


----------



## hunt11er9999 (Jan 11, 2009)

It is fire based EMS i believe.  Thanks


----------



## EMTCop86 (Jan 12, 2009)

EMTCop86 said:


> For my class in CA we have to have *40 hours of field or clinical or combo of both* and a minimum of 5 patients. I think it should be a lot more. I took my MFR and it was a breeze but I didn't really learn anything until I was out on medical aids and doing hands on.


 
Ok apparently I was mistaken, we do have to care for a minimum of 5 patients but we need to have 16 hours of clinical and 24 hours of field. We can do more if we want but that is the minimum which I still believe isn't enough.


----------

