# EMT cert equivalent to CNA?



## BrockSpring (Sep 6, 2010)

I'm trying to get a job as an ER tech in Washington state and I've seen a few job openings that say "CNA level-A required" so being that I have my EMT-B cert. can I apply for this job or do I really need to get my CNA?


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## JPINFV (Sep 6, 2010)

Your best bet would be to contact the employer and ask.


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## ffemt8978 (Sep 6, 2010)

You will need to get your CNA.  WA treats them as different skill sets, with different certification requirements.  Here is the link to the DoH site about CNA's.  http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/professions/Nursing_Assistant/default.htm

I am an EMT-ILS and still had to take the 40 hour "Home Health Care Provider" course in order for the state to pay me to take care of my disabled mother at home.


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## Hockey (Sep 6, 2010)

CNA and EMT is different.  I looked into it.  I was told they teach CNA's know how to do catheters, wipe butts better, and know how to properly move a patient.  Seriously was told that.

So that sounds about right


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## JPINFV (Sep 6, 2010)

Hockey said:


> CNA and EMT is different.  I looked into it.  I was told they teach CNA's know how to do catheters, wipe butts better, and know how to properly move a patient.  Seriously was told that.
> 
> So that sounds about right



To be fair, though, none of those are really covered in EMT-B class with the exception of, maybe, bed to bed transfers. How good are most EMTs at bed to wheelchair transfers for anything more than the most basic, patient powered, stand and pivot routine? Within a reasonable weight, I can transfer anyone from a bed to a wheelchair with the only requirement that the patient can shuffle their feet and bear some (definitely not all) of their own weight from what I learned being trained to do hospital volunteering. The patient doesn't even need to be able to sit up under their own power. I imagine that the CNAs were trained significantly better for patient transfers than what I was taught in about an hour.


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## LucidResq (Sep 6, 2010)

Definitely check with the employer, but if they are specifically requesting CNA, you probably need to have it. 

Things I learned in CNA class that I didn't in EMT... hm... perineal care, catheter care, bedpans, assisting with ADLs, measuring I&O, making beds, etc. 
You may use some EMT skills in the ED but you'll also likely be responsible for CNA stuff like making beds. 

Yeah, it may just be wiping butts and taking care of catheters but considering how devastating decubitus ulcers can be and how common catheter-associated UTIs are... it's important that it's done right.


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## LucidResq (Sep 6, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> I imagine that the CNAs were trained significantly better for patient transfers than what I was taught in about an hour.



Definitely true at least in my case. Not only did we spend more time on it in class with a PTA working one-on-one with us on body mechanics, but we had more clinical time, not only in LTC and hospice, but in a SCI/TBI rehab hospital. I've had hands-on time with all kind of transfers, gait belts, Hoyer lifts, Guldmann lifts, transfer boards, etc etc. I've transferred people with trachs, vents, foleys, and pretty much every other combination of tubes/wires one could have. It's not a "cool" skill but definitely a very worthwhile one, in my opinion.


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## JPINFV (Sep 6, 2010)

Ah, slide boards. An underappreciated piece of equipment when it comes to IFTs. Also, for new EMTs working IFTs, remember. You're moving the patient, you can adjust the room to fit your needs. Beds approximately waist high. The bed the patient is on now slightly higher than the gurney. If you need to move the bed, unlock it and do so. At my last company (a very very small company, like less than 15 EMTs small), I did a discharge with one of the owners and I had to hold off smacking him because he was all set to do a slide transfer with the hospital bed set to the lowest level possible because that's how it was already set to. Yea... I didn't even ask before I started raising the bed height and making other adjustments to effect a good and safe bed to gurney transfer.


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## MasterIntubator (Sep 6, 2010)

Hockey said:


> .........wipe butts better



:lol:  Thanks Hockey!  I must have laughed for a good 30 minutes.  I needed that.   Not sure why I am so amused by that, I just am!!


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## WVEmt (Sep 6, 2010)

LucidResq said:


> Definitely check with the employer, but if they are specifically requesting CNA, you probably need to have it.
> 
> Things I learned in CNA class that I didn't in EMT... hm... perineal care, catheter care, bedpans, assisting with ADLs, measuring I&O, making beds, etc.
> You may use some EMT skills in the ED but you'll also likely be responsible for CNA stuff like making beds.
> ...



yeah that about sums it up. even makes the nursing staff happy when you know how to empty a cath bag before an ift


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## medicRob (Sep 6, 2010)

CNA was my first medical certification. I worked as a CNA at a nursing home for about 6 months right as I was doing EMT school. If you want to be a CNA, get used to bed sores, q2 rolling, dry rounds, catheters, I/O Documentation, Activities of daily living, giving baths, learning the proper way to make a bed, etc. Since Oxygen is a drug, CNA cannot administer it. I would say if you are going to an ED, you will be able to do some EMT skills. However, they will probably make you train as a PCT if they hire you just having your EMT license.


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## rhan101277 (Sep 7, 2010)

Yeah I didn't realize there was actually training involve to make beds.  There is a specific way it is done though.


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## medicRob (Sep 7, 2010)

rhan101277 said:


> Yeah I didn't realize there was actually training involve to make beds.  There is a specific way it is done though.



I didn't either until I did my CNA classes. As a matter of fact, when the teacher said they were going to show us the "Proper" way to make beds, I was confused and wondered who these people were that did not know how to make a bed.


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## LucidResq (Sep 7, 2010)

"She went out of the room and came back with the old nurse of the early morning. Together they made the bed with me in it. That was new to me and an admirable proceeding."

-_A Farewell to Arms,_ Ernest Hemingway


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## MediMike (Sep 7, 2010)

Unless things have changed in the last couple years, majority of hospitals (on the West Side of WA at least) require you to obtain your RNA (Registered Nursing Assistant) card if you have your EMT-B. No additional training, just an additional fee


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## jjesusfreak01 (Sep 7, 2010)

Whether a state, or even just a hospital, requires a CNA or EMT-B cert is totally dependent on how they plan to use them. An EMT-B is well suited for an ER-Tech position (including working traumas), whereas CNAs don't have much training in emergency medicine besides CPR. On the other hand, an EMT is totally unqualified to render the day to day care that CNAs give. Its simply a matter of skills. EMTs are taught emergency, CNAs are taught long term care. That doesn't stop the hospitals in my area from using CNA IIs as trauma techs, but I digress...


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## JPINFV (Sep 7, 2010)

In a department full of RNs and physicians board certified/board eligable in emergency medicine, how much time do you think it would take to train a CNA in the basics of what an ER tech does? In the end, the ER tech is making very few treatment and disposition decisions, unlike EMTs working on an ambulance.


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## dudemanguy (Sep 7, 2010)

I used to think being a CNA would be really easy compared to EMT. That is far from the reality though, one CNA who doesnt know how to do their job can be devastating to the health of patients they work with in a long term health care setting and create a lot of headaches and nightmares for the nurses they work with. Its a much different skill set than being an EMT too. 

An ER isnt a long term care setting though, so what an ER tech does is probably more in line with an EMT, although knowledge of CNA skills would still give someone less of a learning curve.


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## dudemanguy (Sep 7, 2010)

Hockey said:


> CNA and EMT is different.  I looked into it.  I was told they teach CNA's know how to do catheters, wipe butts better.



It may sound funny, and its certainly not rocket science or something to brag about, but theres some truth to that. You deal with female patients with compromised immune systems lying in their own crap, if you arent careful how you wipe them and clean them up your gonna cause them a lot of problems. This probably isnt that uncommon a situation in an ER either. Likewise someone with open wounds or sores, or someone who just had say hip surgery and has a nasty wound. Its a nasty job but someones gotta do it, and in an ER that someone would probably be the ER tech.


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## MasterIntubator (Sep 8, 2010)

For me... the wording was funny, as it brought back memories when I took a CNA course back in the day.... and can relate to it.  Preventing urine burns, angry butts and decubitus ulcers stuff was paramount.  We were proud, and when it was clean... we felt we had mad skills.  

I look back.... and wondered about my sanity.


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## wildmed (Sep 8, 2010)

In CO, the HCA ( health one) hospitals are starting to higher EMT-bs as floor PCT's, not sure how they figure that EMT's are really going to fit well into the normal CNA role.


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## sirkhctiw (Sep 9, 2010)

BrockSpring said:


> I'm trying to get a job as an ER tech in Washington state and I've seen a few job openings that say "CNA level-A required" so being that I have my EMT-B cert. can I apply for this job or do I really need to get my CNA?



I just did my second interview for and ER Tech position here in MS. I'm in medic school but I'm only and EMT-B at the moment. The job posting said specifically that you could be an EMT-B or CNA to apply though.


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## WVEmt (Sep 9, 2010)

im not sure how it is where i live now, but i know in arizona they require either cna or emt. most places it helped a lot to have both. i actually think working as a cna before i became an emt has helped me a lot in the field.


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