# Who has their CHL?



## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

Just what title says who has their CHL and what do you carry?

I have my CHL but I don't carry anymore. 

Sig .40 P229DAK
S&W .380 Bodyguard


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 15, 2011)

It all depends on what day it is and where I am going. I have a bit of freedom in selection.

S&W 1076
Ruger P95DC
Ruger KP89
Taurus PT92AF
Keltec .380
HighPoint .45
and a few others...you get the point....

The one thing you will *NEVER* see in my possession is a Glock. Don't like 'em, don't want 'em, pretty much hate 'em....


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## TransportJockey (Mar 15, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> Just what title says who has their CHL and what do you carry?
> 
> I have my CHL but I don't carry anymore.
> 
> ...


Still carrying on my NM CCW. 
EAA 10mm Witness at small of back.


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

frostbiteEMT said:


> It all depends on what day it is and where I am going. I have a bit of freedom in selection.
> 
> S&W 1076
> Ruger P95DC
> ...




Nice!!!!! now question? Has there ever been a day where you carried all of them at same time? lol.


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Still carrying on my NM CCW.
> EAA 10mm Witness at small of back.



Good choice. Have you ever forgot and encountered any problems such as carrying in hospitals schools etc?


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 15, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> Nice!!!!! now question? Has there ever been a day where you carried all of them at same time? lol.



All of those weapons have been in my car at the same time....my 3rd date with the woman who now is my wife was to the range. She had never shot before......
I do have a small armory of handguns, mostly from family members that have went to prison or passed away. The ones I listed are just the ones that I paid for out of my own money. You might say I am a bit of a gun nut....


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 15, 2011)

> Good choice. Have you ever forgot and encountered any problems such as carrying in hospitals schools etc?


If there is a sign that says "Firearms are prohibited by law" on the door, the firearm(s) go into the lockbox in the truck. *PERIOD*


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

frostbiteEMT said:


> If there is a sign that says "Firearms are prohibited by law" on the door, the firearm(s) go into the lockbox in the truck. *PERIOD*



firearms(s) <------Priceless.


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## bigbaldguy (Mar 15, 2011)

My dad and I were in one of the first Texas CHL classes. I carried religiously for 10 years or so and then one day just stopped. Still have my CHL but ever since I moved to Houston I just don't feel the need to carry. Occasionally I'll put my glock 26 under the seat if I'm taking a road trip. Even though I don't carry anymore I'll keep my CHL current till I'm too old to hold the gun up  My dad is coming up on 85 and he and I both just renewed. He shot better then I did.


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> My dad and I were in one of the first Texas CHL classes. I carried religiously for 10 years or so and then one day just stopped. Still have my CHL but ever since I moved to Houston I just don't feel the need to carry. Occasionally I'll put my glock 26 under the seat if I'm taking a road trip. Even though I don't carry anymore I'll keep my CHL current till I'm too old to hold the gun up  My dad is coming up on 85 and he and I both just renewed. He shot better then I did.



That's a nice bond you have with your father.:beerchug:


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## Emma (Mar 15, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> Good choice. Have you ever forgot and encountered any problems such as carrying in hospitals schools etc?



I'm glad you all follow the signs.  I had a parent pull his gun out of his pants waist band in the middle of a conference, lay it on the table, and then stare at me.  Apparently, that was supposed to convince me to not enter in the grade of "F" that the kid earned. h34r:


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## pullnshoot25 (Mar 15, 2011)

I wish I could get my CCW permit but I live in California (shall issue should be here soon!) I have my Tracker .44, FNP-40, Tokarev TT-33 (9mm) to add to it. I probably need a pocket pistol (something classy) to add to the mix when I do.


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## pullnshoot25 (Mar 15, 2011)

frostbiteemt said:


> all of those weapons have been in my car at the same time....my 3rd date with the woman who now is my wife was to the range. She had never shot before......
> I do have a small armory of handguns, mostly from family members that have went to prison or passed away. The ones i listed are just the ones that i paid for out of my own money. You might say i am a bit of a gun nut....



rad.


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## HotelCo (Mar 15, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> I have my CHL but I don't carry anymore.



Why?:wacko:


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Why?:wacko:



Most of the places I am at daily is airports, schools, churches.....

Basically everywhere I can't carry. I drive a Jeep Wrangler so leaving my piece in the vehicle is out of the question.


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

Sig P229 vs H&K P2000?


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## fast65 (Mar 15, 2011)

I just turned 21, so I haven't had time to get my CHL, but I plan on it this summer. I've got a Glock 23, .40 S&W


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## hatsuo (Mar 15, 2011)

fast65 said:


> I just turned 21, so I haven't had time to get my CHL, but I plan on it this summer. I've got a Glock 23, .40 S&W



From my understanding, in Texas you do not need to have your CHL if your going on a road trip or traveling within Texas. You just can't have it on your physical person or at arms length. Also, you can transport it if you are going to use it for recreational purposes example: hunting, range, gun show.............


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## pullnshoot25 (Mar 15, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> From my understanding, in Texas you do not need to have your CHL if your going on a road trip or traveling within Texas. You just can't have it on your physical person or at arms length. Also, you can transport it if you are going to use it for recreational purposes example: hunting, range, gun show.............



CC in a vehicle in TX is OK sans permit for anyone 18 and older as long as the gun is not on the person. Vehicle is an extension of the home.


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## Adz (Mar 15, 2011)

My usual carry is a nickel plated Kel Tec Pf9, but depending on the clothing/time of year I carry a Glock 26, or a snub nose Ruger .38 in my boot. 

Got plenty to choose from, just like these the best for C&C.


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## usafmedic45 (Mar 16, 2011)

Just to get the questions that inevitably creep up during or start these sorts of threads out of the way:
"So how many of you carry while on duty?"
"Has anyone here shot someone while on scene?"
"Don't you think we should be carrying guns?"
"Don't you think it would be cool if they issued us guns?"
"Which gun do you think makes me not look too fat in these EMT pants I bought from Galls, along with this nifty stethoscope and trauma shears that can cut the roof off a Beemer?"

*sits back and waits to be flamed for saying what every senior member of this forum was thinking when this thread was started*


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## TransportJockey (Mar 16, 2011)

And that would be why I'm keeping a close eye on this thread.


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## pullnshoot25 (Mar 16, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Just to get the questions that inevitably creep up during or start these sorts of threads out of the way:
> "So how many of you carry while on duty?"
> "Has anyone here shot someone while on scene?"
> "Don't you think we should be carrying guns?"
> ...



Sounds like a thread on a gun forum, except that the topics usually involve zombies and shtf.


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## usafmedic45 (Mar 16, 2011)

It also sounds like every gun thread we've ever had on _this_ forum with only one or two exceptions.


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## hatsuo (Mar 22, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Just to get the questions that inevitably creep up during or start these sorts of threads out of the way:
> "So how many of you carry while on duty?"
> "Has anyone here shot someone while on scene?"
> "Don't you think we should be carrying guns?"
> ...



I don't get your point?


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 22, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> I don't get your point?



His point is that a firearms thread on an EMS forum generally leads to problems, which leads to people letting their emotions dictate what they type, which then leads to the thread being locked and some members getting a forum vacation.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 22, 2011)

Translation... please keep it civil. This is not a gun specific forum, so firearms is actually one of the more provocative topics that can get posted here.


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## hatsuo (Mar 22, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> His point is that a firearms thread on an EMS forum generally leads to problems, which leads to people letting their emotions dictate what they type, which then leads to the thread being locked and some members getting a forum vacation.



I would imagine that people that join EMS forum are usually people that are in or interest in the EMSS, with that being said regardless of the topic being firearms or any other topic why would emotions dictate what we type and why in the world would it lead to problems? Anyone with reasonable amount of  intelligence can control emotions ESPECIALLY those that are involved in the emergency medical field. A EMS with no control of emotions or let emotions dictate what they type should not be in EMS. The main point of the thread, which was posted in the correct field was to see how any other share same hobby, interest etc.


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## hatsuo (Mar 22, 2011)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Translation... please keep it civil. This is not a gun specific forum, so firearms is actually one of the more provocative topics that can get posted here.



I understand. 

Just to clarify, My original question what who has CHL? Posted in the correct place. I meant to see who shares same hobbies, interest, activities.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 22, 2011)

hatsuo said:


> I would imagine that people that join EMS forum are usually people that are in or interest in the EMSS, with that being said regardless of the topic being firearms or any other topic why would emotions dictate what we type and why in the world would it lead to problems? Anyone with reasonable amount of  intelligence can control emotions ESPECIALLY those that are involved in the emergency medical field. A EMS with no control of emotions or let emotions dictate what they type should not be in EMS.


The type A personalities that this field attracts brings out people who are vocal in their support of their viewpoint on hot-button topics.  It becomes a problem when people forget our First Rule.  In addition, intelligence has no bearing on whether or not somebody can control their emotions about a topic they feel passionately about.



> The main point of the thread, which was posted in the correct field was to see how any other share same hobby, interest etc.


  We understand that, which is the reason we allow these threads to continue to crop up from time to time instead of closing or removing them.  You assertion that this "was posted in the correct field", while accurate in so far as we agree that the Lounge is the appropriate sub-forum for it, is wholly irrelavent about whether or not an EMS forum is the appropriate venue to talk about firearms.  Why don't you take a few moments and use the search feature to view some of the previous threads here pertaining to firearms and you'll see what we are talking about.


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## usafmedic45 (Mar 22, 2011)

> why would emotions dictate what we type and why in the world would it lead to problems?


Do you really have to ask that?



> Anyone with reasonable amount of intelligence can control emotions ESPECIALLY those that are involved in the emergency medical field.



*picks self up off of floor from falling out of chair laughing*  You really are a newbie/student aren't you?  You have way too much faith in the intelligence and maturity/self control of the average EMS provider.  



> A EMS with no control of emotions or let emotions dictate what they type should not be in EMS.



Agreed- despite the fact that you just repeated yourself in the same sentence- but it does happen with shocking frequency because of how ridiculously low our standards are for entry into this field.  

I, personally don't have a problem with the thread, but just saw it as something likely to spiral downward into a masturbatory orgy of the folks on this forum who wanted to be cops but couldn't pass the psych, fitness or educational requirements and therefore fell back upon being an EMS provider.  Those, and the "I want to go in the military because combat would be AWESOME!!!!" (read as people who've played WAY too much Call of Duty and seen Saving Private Ryan once too often), are the sorts of folks who derail threads like this one into debates about us being armed on duty and using force to protect ourselves.


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## Anjel (Mar 22, 2011)

Didn't your other thread turn into a huge gun debate H? 

And that didn't even start out about guns. 

So that is the point they are trying to make. People get mad, people were yelling at one another, and then FF had to break out his star and start watching.


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## firetender (Mar 22, 2011)

*Most notable quote no one picked up on*



frostbiteEMT said:


> I do have a small armory of handguns, mostly from family members that have went to prison or passed away.



Cool family; let's not ask HOW they passed away and you got their guns! (just ribbing you, friend!)

I reckon the way this whole gun thing gets handled here bugs, bores and scares me more than anything else on this Forum. 

Since they are not standard issue, it's really not about equipment. Since they all basically work the same, identifying the rod you pack has no real relevance to EMS whatsoever. May as well expound on what brand of Band-Aid you carry; that's about as interesting and relevant! 

All you get is a visual picture of an object whose primary purpose is to injure or kill people being brandished by its users like something out of _ Reservoir Dogs._ Is that REALLY what anticipating coming on to a scene is like for these medics? 

Of course not. Perhaps that's what throws me though because here are people who really DO love the field and do their best to be responsive practitioners, yet, give them a soapbox and they get you thinking they'd just as easily pop their patient or someone nearby as they would save someone's life.

That's part of the Dirty Harry complex though, isn't it? Don't carry if you don't intend to use. And for some reason, a lot of the gun carriers here want you to see their rods and make it clear they would use them!

It's the implication of that intention that stands COUNTER to the purpose of our jobs AND this Forum. The image leaves a really bitter taste in my mouth.

_*Personally, if I were carrying or COULD carry on the job or on my person a concealed weapon, nobody, but no-body would know about it! Why reveal the one secret advantage I have or let someone else know that on my person is something they could kill ME with? 

*_*Sorry, maybe I got a little hung up on the word "concealed"!*_*

A firearm for personal protection is not something to be bragged about. It's something that you have SO MUCH RESPECT for -- precisely BECAUSE it is lethal -- that it is something you NEVER want to have to use. The absence of that interpretation here is what worries me the most. *_

That is, of course if you're talking EMS. But that's not what the talk evolves to here. It all gets wrapped up in the right to talk, just like the right to carry. But how much of the talk is about bragging and how many of the responses are about "Shut up, you're a Cretin!"? If you're going to look at it at all, look at it in a larger context.

And it's all about "carrying" isn't it? I can't recall ONE INSTANCE where someone here actually popped a perp while on-duty. I'd like to hear about that, so let me start with a FULL-DISCLOSURE: 



> One day, having just transported a woman about to deliver a baby to the ER, I found myself holding a Police Service revolver on her boyfriend, who had accompanied her to the hospital in my ambulance. As it happened, the P.D. had escorted us to the hospital for an emergency delivery and one recognized the guy's face from an FBI Wanted poster for a bank robbery and shooting in Washington D.C.
> 
> An Officer asked me to get a positive ID of the man (who would NOT leave the side of his g-friend in the delivery room!) from a tatoo and then bring him out to the Waiting Room for them to arrest. I did so, he bolted, and the next thing I knew, the cop pinning him to the ground handed me his revolver and I was standing there ready to protect my Brother and ally.
> 
> ...


So how many of you have actually killed another human being with a firearm? I know there are some here who have and maybe they are the ones that should start the threads.

And then, there are the legal issues. Were we to spend as much time looking at the sources of emergency care and tracking them back to the Constitution, we might learn something relevant to the profession!

But not here; it's more of an emotional issue than threads on dead babies! 

All the above is non-official, but as a Community Leader I would ask that in the future, any talk of guns be limited to footnotes in larger issues of personal scene-safety threads, and that as ILLUSTRATION only.


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## ghettocowboy (Mar 22, 2011)

So if ur not into guns or don't carry then why not skip over this thread?
Gp100 until it gets warmer


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 22, 2011)

ghettocowboy said:


> So if ur not into guns or don't carry then why not skip over this thread?


Some of us can't skip threads simply because we don't like the topic.


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## usafmedic45 (Mar 22, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> Some of us can't skip threads simply because we don't like the topic.



....and some of us have genuine comments to make.  Besides, just because we're not all about listing the weapons we pack- which I've always said is a sign that you're either lying or compensating for some perceived deficiency or inadequacy; after all isn't the point of a concealed carry permit so that no one knows you're carrying?-  doesn't mean we're "not into guns" or "don't carry".


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## HotelCo (Mar 22, 2011)

firetender said:


> Cool family; let's not ask HOW they passed away and you got their guns! (just ribbing you, friend!)
> 
> I reckon the way this whole gun thing gets handled here bugs, bores and scares me more than anything else on this Forum.
> 
> ...





If this is what you would like to see, then why type out half a page of comments about firearms, and the people who talk about them?

Just my two cents..


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## pullnshoot25 (Mar 22, 2011)

Don't forget open carry!


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## TransportJockey (Mar 22, 2011)

pullnshoot25 said:


> Don't forget open carry!



Heh, that topic will send most firearms forums up in arms  I've OCd when I lived in CO and before I turned 21 in NM, plus in NM until I got my CCW.


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## pullnshoot25 (Mar 22, 2011)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Heh, that topic will send most firearms forums up in arms  I've OCd when I lived in CO and before I turned 21 in NM, plus in NM until I got my CCW.



Good for you! I am an advoate of carry, regardless of method but i 9 like OC over CC. 

Google "they carry guns" and take a wild guess who the guy in the article is


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## TransportJockey (Mar 22, 2011)

Heh, as long as you aren't kwikrnu you're all good in my book ;p


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## firetender (Mar 22, 2011)

*A drive to articulate*



HotelCo said:


> If this is what you would like to see, then why type out half a page of comments about firearms, and the people who talk about them?
> 
> Just my two cents..



I had to take out what I was feeling, look at it and put it in to words so next time, when I get PO'd, I'll understand what's behind it. It's also, somewhat, my position on the subject so y'all understand where I'm coming from.


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 23, 2011)

firetender said:


> *Cool family; let's not ask HOW they passed away and you got their guns! *(just ribbing you, friend!)



_I can neither confirm nor deny having anything at all to do with their deaths....h34r:_


firetender said:


> I reckon the way this whole gun thing gets handled here bugs, bores and scares me more than anything else on this Forum.



_We promise not to use them on you. _



firetender said:


> Since they are not standard issue, it's really not about equipment. Since they all basically work the same, identifying the rod you pack has no real relevance to EMS whatsoever. May as well expound on what brand of Band-Aid you carry; that's about as interesting and relevant!



_Do you have a preferred brand of stethoscope? Would you not prefer an Ultrascope over a Medline basic scope? It is the same for gun owners. We have our preferences, and, like scopes, there are major differences. _




firetender said:


> That's part of the Dirty Harry complex though, isn't it? Don't carry if you don't intend to use. And for some reason, a lot of the gun carriers here want you to see their rods and make it clear they would use them!



_Although I will admit that I do enjoy the discussion of firearms, I think it is a far stretch to say that I have a Dirty Harry complex. Yes, I carry most of the time when I am not on the job. No, I would not hesitate to use my weapon for the preservation of my life or another's life. However, as I stated in the other thread that got a bit out of hand, I pray that my weapon never has to clear the holster it is carried in. You could stand right next to me and we could talk for hours and you still wouldn't know that I am armed. Why? Because that weapon is going to stay holstered and concealed. If you were to come to my house or accompany me to the range, then and only then would you get the opportunity to see my weapon. The same holds true for most of the people I know who carry. _



firetender said:


> A firearm for personal protection is not something to be bragged about. It's something that you have SO MUCH RESPECT for -- precisely BECAUSE it is lethal -- that it is something you NEVER want to have to use. The absence of that interpretation here is what worries me the most.



_This not only applies to personal protection firearms. This applies to all firearms. I was brought up around guns, and the number one lesson I was taught was safety. I have a standing offer that I will take anyone who has not had the opportunity to shoot in their life to the range, provide a firearm and ammo for their use at the range, as well as eye and ear protection. But first, they have to sit down with me and learn about firearm safety. For those who have taken me up on my offer, they usually find that they need to set aside a whole day for a trip with me, because we will spend at least 3-4 hours going over firearm safety before they get the opportunity to shoot. _



firetender said:


> So how many of you have actually killed another human being with a firearm? I know there are some here who have and maybe they are the ones that should start the threads.



_My prayers and condolences go to those who have been placed in the situation where taking another human life was necessary. Although I am a big proponent of the right to own and carry and as such am prepared to do what I have to, I hope I never face that situation._



firetender said:


> All the above is non-official, but as a Community Leader I would ask that in the future, any talk of guns be limited to footnotes in larger issues of personal scene-safety threads, and that as ILLUSTRATION only.



_Even on the general board? I can understand keeping it out of the EMS boards, but not the general discussion board where the topic doesn't have to be EMS related...._


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 23, 2011)

To answer that, this thread can continue but rest assured it is on my short list of subscribed threads and I will be reading every post in it.


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 23, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> To answer that, this thread can continue but rest assured it is on my short list of subscribed threads and I will be reading every post in it.



That's fine. I will try and keep it nice so that you don't have to do the Wyatt Earp imitation on us......


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## firetender (Mar 23, 2011)

frostbiteEMT said:


> _We promise not to use them on you. _
> _Even on the general board? I can understand keeping it out of the EMS boards, but not the general discussion board where the topic doesn't have to be EMS related...._



Maybe all I really want is some balance, which you provided, so thanks! 

Of course stuff like this will pop up in the most unexpected places, but the deal is we can note and discuss without fixating, taking sides and then competing. No matter the thread, there are numerous directions the explorations can go; including what happened in the above.

The idea is to not get stalled in one mud puddle and to keep things moving with respect.


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## Jon (Mar 23, 2011)

Seems like the red letters are taking over this thread... so I guess I'll chime in.

In Pennsylvania, it's called a LCTF, License To Carry Firearms. It's a nice card to have.

I have a few. I carry, sometimes. When I carry, it is USUALLY well concealed (at least until my girlfriend finds it:glare... and I try not to make a big deal of it. So I'll keep it that way.

That being said - if anyone feels like it, I'm all for an unofficial EMTLife.com Range Trip!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, and I'll steal FFEMT8978's thunder. Why? Because I feel like it. (He'll pay me back somehow, I'm sure :unsure. We are ALL paying attention, and as FFEMT said, if this thread goes bad, someone will likely get some form of vacation for it.


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## FrostbiteMedic (Mar 23, 2011)

Jon said:


> Oh, and I'll steal FFEMT8978's thunder. Why? Because I feel like it. (He'll pay me back somehow, I'm sure :unsure. We are ALL paying attention, and as FFEMT said, if this thread goes bad, someone will likely get some form of vacation for it.



If this thread goes bad, will ya'll send me to Hawaii? I could use the tan....


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## ghettocowboy (Mar 23, 2011)

Ooo me too!.....wait can you carry in hawaii?


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 23, 2011)

ghettocowboy said:


> Ooo me too!.....wait can you carry in hawaii?



No.  To have a firearm there, it must be registered with the PD, and you have to have a special card from them to purchase ammo (which they keep track of).


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## ghettocowboy (Mar 23, 2011)

Yeah I have google....lighten up man


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## Hockey (Mar 23, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> No.  To have a firearm there, it must be registered with the PD, and you have to have a special card from them to purchase ammo (which they keep track of).



Yuck


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## wyoskibum (Mar 23, 2011)

Wyoming now allows carry concealed without a permit.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 23, 2011)

wyoskibum said:


> Wyoming now allows carry concealed without a permit.



Nice. That makes 4 states with constitutional carry (AK, VT, AZ, and now WY)


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## rwik123 (Mar 23, 2011)

Is there also a p/month limit on the amount of firearms you can obtain? Don't know if that's national or a state law. I would be kinda neutral on that. I could see how people would want to limit the stockpiling of firearms but i would want the ability to buy one whenever I felt inclined to.


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## HotelCo (Mar 23, 2011)

rwik123 said:


> Is there also a p/month limit on the amount of firearms you can obtain? Don't know if that's national or a state law. I would be kinda neutral on that. I could see how people would want to limit the stockpiling of firearms but i would want the ability to buy one whenever I felt inclined to.



Not in Michigan, as far as I know.


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## firetender (Mar 23, 2011)

*Vacations*



ghettocowboy said:


> Ooo me too!.....wait can you carry in hawaii?



One of the great things about Hawaii, and I'm sure many medics working here will agree, is they are so TIGHT on gun laws there's few gun related killings a year in the whole state. You get caught with a gun on you illegally and it's right to the Slammer!

You and Frostbite can both vacation here, but you won't escape this CL!

An interesting side note; Frostbite's state, Tennessee (I went to UT, Knoxville!) is ranked #7 in gun kill rate



> The survey released last week by the Virginia-based Violence Policy  Center ranks Tennessee in seventh place nationally for gun-related  deaths, at a rate of 15.03 per 100,000 people. That's above a national  average of about 10 gun deaths per 100,000, according to the survey...Hawaii came in last, with a death rate of 2.82 per 100,000 and a household gun ownership rate of 9.7 percent. Full article is HERE.



...and now, TN is working on allowing you to carry in restaurants serving alcohol!

If it's what the people want, well...


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## HotelCo (Mar 23, 2011)

and Texas is poised to sign into law, a bill that will allow carrying on college campuses!


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## TransportJockey (Mar 23, 2011)

firetender said:


> One of the great things about Hawaii, and I'm sure many medics working here will agree, is they are so TIGHT on gun laws there's few gun related killings a year in the whole state. You get caught with a gun on you illegally and it's right to the Slammer!
> 
> You and Frostbite can both vacation here, but you won't escape this CL!
> 
> ...



New Mexico has had a law like that for several years with no problems that have creeped up.


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## firetender (Mar 23, 2011)

*And the numbers show it!*



jtpaintball70 said:


> New Mexico has had a law like that for several years with no problems that have creeped up.



NM is ranked #8, at 15.03, right behind Tennessee's 15.02 gun kill rate per 100,000.

(By the way, my observation has been very simple; the easier it is for people to get guns, the more they kill other people with them. When you allow citizens to get more guns more easily you compound the problem because that arms more criminals more easily as well. It then becomes an "Arms War" which is mostly great for the weapons manufacturers; the people just die. REF: http://www.vpc.org/press/1006gundeath.htm

And that is just on the small scale. Look at war. Follow the money. Who gets it? ...and who dies?)

*FOR CLARITY'S SAKE:*_* I'm a realist. If you are a medic or citizen, living and/or working in an area known for high crime and gunplay -- especially in areas where Medics are targets and appropriate backup is not available -- it is not your fault and carrying a concealed weapon is a personal choice I would not deny you. I believe you DO have the right to defend yourself and your patient for that matter. I just pray you'll never have to.*_


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 23, 2011)

Thread closed due to being off topic.


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