# Martial Arts



## Epi-do

Just curious who all studies some sort of martial art.  My son has been wanting to learn, so we researched places around us and found a place that we really liked that teaches taekwondo.  During the "trial" classes, he wanted me to do one of the classes with him.  He thought it was so cool, that he insisted I take classes with him.  Now, mom is also learning TKD.

I started out doing it as a mom-son sort of thing, but am finding myself enjoying it more and more each time we go.  We've only been at it a few weeks, and I love how much exercise I am getting.  I think the lessons it teaches are wonderful, and you get to learn how to do all that cool looking stuff along with it!

So, who around here also enjoys some sort of martial arts?


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## scottyb

I took an Okinawan form, Go Ju Ru.  It s actually the same exact style portrayed in the Karate Kid Movies, but the crap they showed was a very commercialized view and did not do the form justice.


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## TransportJockey

I used to practice Shorei-Ryu, another Okinawan form. Once I finish medic school and have the time and money I want to start Shotokon or Aikido


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## AJ Hidell

Good on you, Epi!  The martial arts are among the very best workouts to be had.  Your endurance and flexibility will increase measurably each week.  You'll feel better, sleep better, and eat better.  Even if you don't learn a thing about self-defense, you still haven't wasted your time or money.  Most martial arts schools charge less than an aerobics class, and have the same or more benefits.

Tae Kwon Do is an excellent all-round art, and particularly as a foundation for expansion into other arts.  The strength of TKD is that it is very technically focused.  Students are conditioned to react with body mechanics that emphasize form and style.  You master individual techniques before moving on to put them together into free-form reactions, which is a very effective way of learning.

The discipline involved especially in TKD is great for kids, giving them a constructive outlet for all that energy, as well as an appreciation for the educational process when they see how fun and rewarding it can be.  The positive effects this all has on their discipline and self-esteem is often quite noticeable.  You've made a good move with this.


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## fortsmithman

I've taken some judo lessons in the past I will be joining a MMA school here in town.


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## Noctis Lucis Caelum

I've been doing Muay Thai ever since I was 11 and been doing it ever since.
I'm glad its getting a lot of fame and attention with Tony Jaa and few others.
I'm been thinking of taking Kendo at the moment


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## Epi-do

Noctis Lucis Caelum said:


> I'm been thinking of taking Kendo at the moment



That is the form my husband really enjoys.  He hasn't really studied it though in several years.


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## DT4EMS

I have a 3rd Degree in American Karate and hold I/C Guru in FMA Kali-Silat. I took Judo for about a year and currently do boxing/kick-boxing on Mondays and submission grappling on Wednesday nights.

I am the constant student. I don't care what it is......... I just enjoy training. I will tell you ..... the older I get the harder it is to keep up with the younger generation!


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## curt

I'd love to take Sambo, but there's not too many places around here that teach it. An interesting alternative would be Hapkido, I suppose.


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## Veneficus

I studied with Dr. Tetsuya Higuchi for a few years, having not found another instructor like him, I haven't been able to keep much interest.


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## nomofica

I think after my EMR training and I have some cash to spare I'll join a TDK class.


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## EMTinNEPA

I studied Shotokhan for ten years and reached the 4th Kyu (purple belt, the one before the one before black belt) before I quit to play high school football.  Considered going back last year, but I have no time anymore.  Maybe once I'm done with medic school.


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## netters311

I take Taekwon-Do. My dad is the instructor. He is a 7th degree black belt, so he is considered a Master. I really enjoy it. Its such a stress reliever!! I love kicking and punching those targets!! lol Its great for teaching kids discipline and respect. You should give a try for sure!


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## firecoins

escrima is an excellent art

I studied TKD and BJJ.

I would  love to study aikido.


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## Onceamedic

I've spent years in a very traditional style of TKD, a few less years in a very "progressive" style of TKD, learned some escrima, kali, and a couple of others.  I started, like you epi, because of a kid, in this case, my grand-daughter.  Since moving to the southwest 6 months ago, I haven't found an instructor yet, but it is on my list.  I cannot tell you how beneficial it has been for me.  At 51, I gotta keep up with the kids both at the dojang and on the job.  I hope to keep doing it till they drag me out in a box.  Good for you!


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## Wee-EMT

I used to teach kickboxing, then I sprained my MCL:glare:


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## Epi-do

I just got back from an Armis seminar and had a blast.  It is definately something I think I may be interested in doing more of in the future (and I got to beat up on my husband for a little while at the same time!)

Everyone in the class received their own set of sticks, so I can keep practicing what I have learned today.  Now to go and shower for an honor guard detail for work...


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## motownems

My father and I practice Judo.   He is a shodan, I am not even close. But its a nice activity to do with my old man.


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## pnkime18

i used to do TKD, until I found out in 2nd grade that it was just for looks cause I got the crap beat out of me. then i started to look into martial arts in asia. yeah i moved to korea and lived with my aunt and uncles, i studied KSW and HRD/TSD. it worked, because i started fights on purpose to see if it did or not...i was a trouble maker.

then i came back to america and got the crap beat out of me from a college football player. i was only 17 and i guess i deserved it because i threw a steak in his face. so started Krav Maga, jujitsu, hapkido and akido, and i still do it. except for when i'm deployed to Iraq, like right now. but yeah i haven't lost a fight yet. oh yeah...and the football player is now my best friend. we're in the army together.

"mastering one fighting style is a big accomplishment, but taking in others will make you a warrior with your fist and knees, but also with wisdom."-my dad!


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## Flight-LP

pnkime18 said:


> i used to do TKD, until I found out in 2nd grade that it was just for looks cause I got the crap beat out of me. then i started to look into martial arts in asia. yeah i moved to korea and lived with my aunt and uncles, i studied KSW and HRD/TSD. it worked, because i started fights on purpose to see if it did or not...i was a trouble maker.
> 
> then i came back to america and got the crap beat out of me from a college football player. i was only 17 and i guess i deserved it because i threw a steak in his face. so started Krav Maga, jujitsu, hapkido and akido, and i still do it. except for when i'm deployed to Iraq, like right now. but yeah i haven't lost a fight yet. oh yeah...and the football player is now my best friend. we're in the army together.
> 
> "mastering one fighting style is a big accomplishment, but taking in others will make you a warrior with your fist and knees, but also with wisdom."-my dad!



You got the crap beat out of ya?????? Who'd have seen that one coming.............

4 posts and 1 day has made your opinion of just about everything well known. Albeight slightly distorted, but well known.

So with that in mind, and my apologies to you Epi for going off topic, but I have to know, 
pnkime18 why are you here and what do you hope to contribute other than your colorful view of our armed forces and its state of current condition?


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## subliminal1284

I have been practicing martial arts ever since I was about 8. I have studied Southern white crane and Southern Praying mantis Kung Fu for a long time. When I was a kid I studied Tae Kwon Do, it is great for kids and for adults to get exercise but it is practically useless in a real fight, the problem being Tae Kwon Do is almost all high kicks. Once your opponent gets in close its all over. It is a sport, nothing more.

I used to spar with a guy who took Tae Kwon Do and every single time he tried one of those high kicks id sweep his leg and knock him on his *** . It is very hard to find a good martial arts school that will teach you good self defense techniques, most schools out there are "Americanized" and are only there to make money by getting more students and making students pay to take tests for their belts.

In the old days of Martial Arts there were no belts, In the old days fighters would fight in dirt pits the fighters would wear white belts and the more they fought the dirtier their belts would be until they became black and that is where the belt system originated from.

If you are serious about martial arts find an art you like and stay with it, do not go from one art to the next, you need to get the techniques you learned so in grained into you that they are second nature to perform, studying several arts can make that hard to achieve.  There is a saying in Kung Fu "Practices many master of none".


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## xlq771

I am a 1st. degree in ITF syle tae kwon do.  I agree that tae kwon do is not the best art for self defence for all people.  Most schools include hapkido techniques for self defence, and even these are questionable against street fighting techniques.  However, there are probably those who would be able to use it successfully to defend themselves.

Tae kwon do certainly is a good aerobic workout though, and it does look pretty (Best of the Best fight scenes).

Remember, the best defence to an attack is not to be in a fight in the first place.


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## subliminal1284

Yup my sifu used to tell us the best fighter can stop a fight before it even happens.


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## VFFforpeople

I am also interested in TKD. Seeing as how I used to do karate back in the day (idk I was like 6). I enjoyed it. I am looking for all around, but mainly aerobics and to get back into shape. I am not much a fighter, I try and follow a more ghandi style to fighting, but know how to already as I studied boxing for about 2years. I was wondering what style would give me the most speed and flexiablity in the form?


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## AJ Hidell

Kenpo is the big thing in California, with TKD being close.  Kenpo is a little more fast paced and aggressive, wheras (depending upon school, master, and style) TKD can be overly focused on leg work to be quite as practical.  Either will give you a great workout, but if had a choice to start over again, I would probably choose Kenpo over TKD.  Of course, everything is dependent upon your instructor and master, so your mileage may vary.


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## irish_handgrenade

curt said:


> I'd love to take Sambo, but there's not too many places around here that teach it. An interesting alternative would be Hapkido, I suppose.



most places that advertise hapkido are just TKD places very few people actually do it in america to be honest. if you like sambo look for a Brazillian juijitsu place around your area its the exact same thing.  

I am a blue-almost purple belt in brazillian juijitsu and I have been boxing and thai boxing for about 4 years. I was an instructor at LA boxing for a while before getting my certs. I have competed in american kickboxing(BLAH!!) muay thai, amatuer boxing, and MMA and will be looking for a pro mma fight before the end of the year when school starts winding down.


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## Alexakat

TKD here too!  LOVE IT!


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## VFFforpeople

AJ Hidell said:


> Kenpo is the big thing in California, with TKD being close.  Kenpo is a little more fast paced and aggressive, wheras (depending upon school, master, and style) TKD can be overly focused on leg work to be quite as practical.  Either will give you a great workout, but if had a choice to start over again, I would probably choose Kenpo over TKD.  Of course, everything is dependent upon your instructor and master, so your mileage may vary.



Thank you very much. Ya, I will have to go in an sit in on a Kenpo and TKD. I live in a small town so, I know we have atleast 4 of both here lol. Thank you for your reply.


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## Epi-do

Just wanted to share with everyone that we tested today, and I got my yellow belt!  (and it was really cool to be able to break a board, too!)


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## DV_EMT

I took judo for a semester while at college. That was definately fun to do. You learn lots about ballance and using it to your advantage. plus its fun to lear the flips, trips, and holds (both on the mat or while standing). but if you want more hitting and combat style, ju jit su (sp*) is right for you


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## irish_handgrenade

DV_EMT said:


> but if you want more hitting and combat style, ju jit su (sp*) is right for you



there are no strikes in jui jitsu.... its strictly a grappling style like submission wrestling and sambo.


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## DV_EMT

ah... musta watched too much MMA on spike tv lol


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## irish_handgrenade

it happens a lot my personal fave is when people call it UFC fighting or just UFC when talking about mma in general. To me it's the same as people calling us ambulance drivers...


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## Epi-do

Hey, just wanted to share a few pictures from our promotion test/graduation to yellow belt....


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## KempoEMT

Epi-do said:


> Hey, just wanted to share a few pictures from our promotion test/graduation to yellow belt....



Congratulations!  Keep it up!


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## masquedxangel

Wow your pictures look neater than mine lol.

I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do...been doing it for about six years...

I suggest for anyone looking for something hardcore with a lot of hitting - check out Krav Maga. I believe that's grappling and hitting and made for "real world" combat. Last I checked it's still banned in professional competition for being so hardcore.


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## firecoins

masquedxangel said:


> I suggest for anyone looking for something hardcore with a lot of hitting - check out Krav Maga. I believe that's grappling and hitting and made for "real world" combat. Last I checked it's still banned in professional competition for being so hardcore.


not really.  Krav Maga is not "banned"  Certain techniques are and those techniques are used by krav maga and many other martial arts.  Remember, krav maga was comprised from several different martial arts.


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## masquedxangel

True, but I swear I heard somewhere that Krav Maga is...pretty much ONLY those sorts of things so someone trained in Krav Maga is going to have a hard time with not getting kicked out of competition lol.

A friend of mine was stabbed in the back twice, and her Krav Maga saved her life. Pretty awesome.


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## Chimpie

I'm a brown belt in American Taekwondo Association.  I haven't taken a class in, wow, actually, I'm not going to admit how long ago it was.   LOL

I've actually considering going back into it, starting from the beginning.


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## firecoins

masquedxangel said:


> True, but I swear I heard somewhere that Krav Maga is...pretty much ONLY those sorts of things so someone trained in Krav Maga is going to have a hard time with not getting kicked out of competition lol.
> 
> A friend of mine was stabbed in the back twice, and her Krav Maga saved her life. Pretty awesome.



It depends on the competition. Not all competitions are designed alike. Some of the MMA competitions are pretty hardcore.

Krav Maga can indeed save your life but it is not the only martial art built with realistic self defense in mind. Some krav maga schools are watered down. Other martial arts schools will use the krav maga name just to get students but tehy aren't really learning krav maga. 

As I said krav maga has been put together from several martial arts. Since MMA has become popular, and even before it did, others have put together like minded arts. Even the IDF has learned and used some new arts.


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## irish_handgrenade

masquedxangel said:


> Wow your pictures look neater than mine lol.
> 
> I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do...been doing it for about six years...
> 
> I suggest for anyone looking for something hardcore with a lot of hitting - check out Krav Maga. I believe that's grappling and hitting and made for "real world" combat. Last I checked it's still banned in professional competition for being so hardcore.



just curious where you got the info on this? lol the U.S. trained the israeli army, krav maga actually came from stuff that our military taught them. A group of ex-military from israel came over to america and borrowed a page out of the tae kwon do play book and began opening schools to make money because there is a market for that sort of thing. All krav maga is, is a grouping of techniques from different martial arts and self defense techniques like throat punches and eye gouging. 
Tae kwon do actually had a similar start in america, ever wonder why any city in america has anywhere between 5-50 TKD dojos? Some korean ex-military came over to america with a plan, they took what they learned in the military and kept what was pretty and cool and flashy, dropped some of the other stuff packaged it into a marketable item and added belt colors and belt tests to A.) make a little extra cash, and provide a more valuable product. and B.) give people a sense of accomplishment with short term attainable goals.

I am not talking bad about any martial arts if it weren't for the TKD, kung fu, karate, boxing, judo, "ninjitsu" studios, advances in the martial art world would be much farther behind, but I do see most of them for what they are and they do a lot of good for a lot of people but most of the stuff is not useful in the ring, the cage, or in the street. 
Many local TKD and Karate instructors here have learned that at the hands of my armbasr, triangle chokes, and bicep slicers.


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## Delando

I've practiced Kung Fu in a small gym in MO for about 14 yrs. (On and off during college). 

And i would say this for all martials, best cardio/aerobics ever! 15min of MA equates to about 1hr of jogging/biking. Most of them really help your body mechanic/coordination, power release/control.

The styles like TDK, that emphasizes on kicks, usually makes you do alot of streches, your flexibility goes up really quickly.

If you want try Taichi, they emphasize on body posture in stances, it really help folks with hip or back problem as well as your blance. Also unlike some of the hard forms(karate,jujitsu), it's low impact, so i recommend it for our 35+ gents/ladies.

And best of all, the classes are super cheap. most YMCA's, local colleges got them for $15-30. Check with peep who's taken them. I got a few places i can recommend in MO if anyone needs em.


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## NJnewbie

I took Seido karate for a few years and got to 4th kyu.  I was going 3 or 4 times a week and totally burned out, plus I also started having foot problems (plantar fascitis) so I haven't gone in over a year.  I really wanted to get to brown belt at least, so I've been thinking about giving it another try.

I also took escrima briefly and loved it.  I couldn't find a consistent school though but if I could find one, I'd stick with that.  It's really an effective martial art and a lot of fun.


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## medicp94dao

I have studied Tae-Kwon-Do in elementary school for a few years... but as I got older i studied White Crane Gung Fu for 2-3 years, Kickboxing for most of my highschool years and while i was in the Army I studied Ju Jitsu.... I am looking to get back into Martial Arts very shortly.


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## judoka5446

Ive been doing judo for a while and train in MMA. Judo is especially useful when you need to hold down someone and not inflict injury, as judo has many useful pinning techniques.


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## Akulahawk

Judo is fun, and useful... as are elements of Aikido... for certain applications. Personally, I like Aikido. It's fun... but it's major downside is that it takes a while to become proficient enough in it for someone to be able to use it effectively in a combat situation. While it has great flexibility... that's also it's weakness for learning it. 

That being said, I have had to use some of the restraint techniques... and they do work well, and can get some pain compliance, or at least you put someone into a position where they have no mechanical leverage... and limit their ability to hurt you or anyone else. Firm, but gentle pressure and a calm, soothing voice has gotten the message through the (very) few times I've needed it... while working.

If you have to do much more than that... Call Law Enforcement... for you'll need the manpower...


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## ZVNEMT

Right now I'm studying BJJ at a De La Riva school. been there about 5 months now, and i love it. All the aches and bruises and the occasional bloody lip are well worth the experience.


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## texasbred

I did TKD from about age 10 until I was 16. Then I trained a lot with my uncle who was a Marine Sniper, but his teachings were much more "Strike and Destroy" type of fighting. A kind of whatever it takes fighting. That got me into trouble later. 

Looking to do TKD again just for an outlet and hobby.


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## Omaha

I started in TKDh34r: when I was around 5.  After about 10 years I wanted more than kicking and punching so I got into Hapkidoh34r:, also a Korean martial art.  I highly recommend Hapkido for EMS practitioners as it deals with control and manipulation of your opponents strength and size through leverage and anatomical knowledge.  It's surprisingly easy to hurt someone but to control them without causing serious injury takes skill.  I would also recommend BJJh34r:.  

With any MA it really comes down to the teacher.


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## Deltachange

I did Karate and Judo and Aikido for about two years, and didn't like the flashy stuff that never actually worked when I sparred. Then found BJJ, and have been doing it for four years, I absolutely love it, and when I am done with college and a paragod, I will start again, and go for my black belt.


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## doctorfodder

I've done Aikido since I was 4 so I've continued with that.  Its a defensive style martial arts.  I've done some Kempo for a couple of years but didn't like the instructor.


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## spikestac211

Krav Maga here ^_^



masquedxangel said:


> I suggest for anyone looking for something hardcore with a lot of hitting - check out Krav Maga. I believe that's grappling and hitting and made for "real world" combat. Last I checked it's still banned in professional competition for being so hardcore.



It is very real world oriented, yeah.. but the reason it's not "allowed" to be used in MMA isn't really because its too "hardcore".. but because it teaches you to kick the guy in the balls if you have to. Elbow him in the head if you have to.. do whatever it takes so that you go home that night. MMA has fairly specific rules as to where you can and can't strike.. Krav doesn't have that set of rules.


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## firecoins

spikestac211 said:


> Krav Maga here ^_^
> 
> 
> 
> It is very real world oriented, yeah.. but the reason it's not "allowed" to be used in MMA isn't really because its too "hardcore".. but because it teaches you to kick the guy in the balls if you have to. Elbow him in the head if you have to.. do whatever it takes so that you go home that night. MMA has fairly specific rules as to where you can and can't strike.. Krav doesn't have that set of rules.



UFC and other organized MMA leagues have rules....for safe competition and due to state regulations.   MMA in real world fights have no such rules and trust me, they can do all that just as well.


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## spikestac211

firecoins said:


> UFC and other organized MMA leagues have rules....for safe competition and due to state regulations.   MMA in real world fights have no such rules and trust me, they can do all that just as well.



Correctamundo. Put me in a triangle choke and I'm toast 

I was just 'splaining why krav maga "techniques" were frowned upon in regulated MMA events.


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## EMT

I did Taekwondo for 6 years. Made it to first degree then dropped out due to the fact that i have no time anymore.


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## doctorfodder

EMT said:


> I did Taekwondo for 6 years. Made it to first degree then dropped out due to the fact that i have no time anymore.



isnt that always the case, though?


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## rhan101277

I took Yoshukai Karate made purple belt, right after white.  I learned the 27 movements which is basically all of the blocks.  These students here really earn their belts, every black belt I saw did crisp moves.

You learn how to use weapons like the bow staff, sais, kamas, nunchaku, swords and tonfa in later study.  You can absolute just pummel someone with a bow staff.

Instructor is great, he is a 9th dan black belt.  Took it when in lived in Birmingham,AL. but then had to quit when I had to leave for this job here in MS.

http://www.ikfkarate.com/home.html


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## EMT-G36C

Another of Imi's followers here.

I love Krav Maga. I have never been in such good shape, felt so healthy, or so energetic my whole life.


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## ZVNEMT

i see alot og TKD guys on here and im kinda curious, are you guys taught with the mindset "this is what i'm gonna do in a real fight" or strictly for scoring points in competition? some of the kicks are fancy and all but seem impractical, like how do you guys think you would fare against a muay thai guy?


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## firecoins

ZVNEMT said:


> i see alot og TKD guys on here and im kinda curious, are you guys taught with the mindset "this is what i'm gonna do in a real fight" or strictly for scoring points in competition? some of the kicks are fancy and all but seem impractical, like how do you guys think you would fare against a muay thai guy?



Its a matter of range. TKD trains for long distance kicks. Muay Thai Does intermediate and short distance.  Muay Thai has the advantage by far.

What is your definition of a "real fight" might I ask?


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## ZVNEMT

firecoins said:


> Its a matter of range. TKD trains for long distance kicks. Muay Thai Does intermediate and short distance.  Muay Thai has the advantage by far.
> 
> What is your definition of a "real fight" might I ask?



by real fight, i mean like... REALLY fighting... like someone in a bar has decided he wants to f*** you up... or someone is trying to kill you. i never took TKD so i dont know if there are techniques intended to inflict pain and damage that dont require a whole lot of flair.


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## firecoins

ZVNEMT said:


> by real fight, i mean like... REALLY fighting... like someone in a bar has decided he wants to f*** you up... or someone is trying to kill you. i never took TKD so i dont know if there are techniques intended to inflict pain and damage that dont require a whole lot of flair.



1. You would not be doing TKD or Muay Thai at a bar fight.  Whatever you do will look like any major martial art.  The bar fights I witnessed seemed to have a large number of off balance punches thrown before bouchers coming running and kick em out. Usually the participants are just mean drunks.  

2. 99.9% of bar fights are avoidable. Seems most people refer to bar fights as real fights. I used to post Martial Arts Planet.  Same thing there.  Alcohol consumption seems to have alot to do with it. I have been going to bars for years and never been in a fight.  My suggestion is to drink at a bar with a better crowd in it. Nice and simple.


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## irishpridetilidie

Hello everyone. I am new to the forums so I felt this would be a good way to introduce myself into here.

I have been doing martial arts since I was about 11 (I am 21 now) and have enjoyed it tremdously. It helped me not only with working on getting in shape, but also self confidence.

Personally I took Kung Fu (Choy Li Fut for all you who want to know exactly what kind). I prefer Chinese styles as opposed to Japanese styles since I have come to find Chinese are much more relaxed and flow better. I am not saying Japanese styles are not effective, but I do find this as a personal preference.

Actually I will be going into boxing and Krav Maga (Israel style seen in Batman Begins and Bourne Series) simply for self defense, and if you have ever taken a hit by a boxer you know what it can do.

So all in all, it is preference. I like Chinese styles, wikipedia has a list of em. Many people however are going into MMA, but I am a fan of martial arts and not so much the ground pounding and UFC type. To each their own.


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## Buzz

irishpridetilidie said:


> Actually I will be going into boxing and Krav Maga (Israel style seen in Batman Begins and Bourne Series) simply for self defense, and if you have ever taken a hit by a boxer you know what it can do.



Actually, the stuff in the Bourne movies was kali, or at least the major fight scenes were...




I've been practicing western martial arts for a little over two years now. It's a bit unusual to bring up in discussions about martial arts since it's so overlooked.


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## Nelg

Before I had personal issues hit, I was practicing American Freestyle Kenpo Karate. (Long name, just call it Karate for the most part)

I loved it, but had been laid off from the job I had at the time and couldn't afford my dues. My Sensi offered to let me continue for free until I could start up again, but he had already done enough for me that I didn't feel like a free ride. 

Always wanted to earn what I got, really. Want to finish that up and check into Tai-chi with my girlfriend or Tae-Kan-do or any other form. I really enjoy the arts them selves as a form of discipline and self defense.


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## sbp7993

I do Tae Kwon Do as well. I am a black belt. It is a great way to exercise, and you learn self respect an defense skills as well.


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## irish_handgrenade

I can't believe yall are still talking about this. The majority of marshal arts that involve a gi and a bunch of different belts, and possibly a paul mitchell sponsorship, are stripped down flashy "products" brought to the U.S. as a way to make money, and are mostly useless in real world combat of any sort. The only real martial arts that are effective in self defense, combat sports, or real fights in any way shape or form, are going to be your arts that actually focus on actual physical contact. Krav maga is an effective martial art, but it was also just a product the israelis brought over to make money with. My ex-mother in law was special forces in israel and they didn't teach "krav maga" they just taught self defense. We, the U.S., taught the israelis what they are now selling as "krav maga". Bottom line i'll put my Jiu jitsu against anyones tkd, kung fu, or what ever lol.


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## subliminal1284

Yup as I said before, In the old days of Martial Arts there were no belts, In the old days fighters would fight in dirt pits the fighters would wear white belts and the more they fought the dirtier their belts would be until they became black so people with black belts were thought to be more experienced and that is where the belt system originated from before it was turned in to a way for schools to make extra money.


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## MS Medic

irish_handgrenade said:


> I can't believe yall are still talking about this. The majority of marshal arts that involve a gi and a bunch of different belts, and possibly a paul mitchell sponsorship, are stripped down flashy "products" brought to the U.S. as a way to make money, and are mostly useless in real world combat of any sort. The only real martial arts that are effective in self defense, combat sports, or real fights in any way shape or form, are going to be your arts that actually focus on actual physical contact. Krav maga is an effective martial art, but it was also just a product the israelis brought over to make money with. My ex-mother in law was special forces in israel and they didn't teach "krav maga" they just taught self defense. We, the U.S., taught the israelis what they are now selling as "krav maga". Bottom line i'll put my Jiu jitsu against anyones tkd, kung fu, or what ever lol.



I have studies ninjutsu for close to twenty years and started out in Judo and tradional Ju-Jutsu. I usually avoid Martial Arts forums due to past experience but this post got the better of me. BJJ in the US is just another sport MA. Most of the true combat aspects of it have been stripped out and it is only taught for use in MMA, which is in itself a sport MA, just moved full circle back to the days of Chuck Norris when Karate was full contact continuous point sparing. Most MMA guys have an overinflated opion of themselves because many of the techniques will not work against a good street fighter without any rules. Likewise many of the grappling techniques are flawed because they are not good as a defence against multiple attackers.

I look at it like this, Martial Arts is like ice cream. If everyone liked vanilla, Baskin and Robins would not serve 32 flavors. So don't bust on people who don't like your flavor because there is always someone else who studies a type of martial arts that makes yours look like vanilla.


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## firecoins

irish_handgrenade said:


> The majority of *marshal* arts that involve a gi and a bunch of different belts


 Its* martial* arts




> My ex-mother in law was special forces in israel and they didn't teach "krav maga" they just taught self defense. We, the U.S., taught the israelis what they are now selling as "krav maga". Bottom line i'll put my Jiu jitsu against anyones tkd, kung fu, or what ever lol.



1. "krav maga" is a hebrew for hand to hand combat.  Yes the Israeli military still teaches hand to hand combat. 

2. There are many people teaching "krav maga" poorly for money.  They are not teaching anything the Israeli military teaches

3. Your challenging people to a fight?  Seriously?


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## MS Medic

irish_handgrenade said:


> The majority of *marshal* arts that involve a gi and a bunch of different belts



I caught that as well but I did not think it was all that important in the overall context of the post.


----------



## firecoins

MS Medic said:


> I have studies ninjutsu for close to twenty years and started out in Judo and tradional Ju-Jutsu. I usually avoid Martial Arts forums due to past experience but this post got the better of me. BJJ in the US is just another sport MA. Most of the true combat aspects of it have been stripped out and it is only taught for use in MMA, which is in itself a sport MA, just moved full circle back to the days of Chuck Norris when Karate was full contact continuous point sparing. Most MMA guys have an overinflated opion of themselves because many of the techniques will not work against a good street fighter without any rules. Likewise many of the grappling techniques are flawed because they are not good as a defence against multiple attackers.



Thats not entirely accurate description of MMA.  MMA does not have any rules. UFC and other MMA leagues have rules as required by state law.  UFC orginally had no rules and was on its way to becoming illegal.  John MCain called it human cockfighting in his campaign to make it illegal.  Many states still do not allow MMA fights.  UFC has no New York fights because UFC is not allowed in NY.  

As for street fighting, practising fighting against resisting opponents is essential.Taking hits and being able to counter is a must. MMA, BJJ, Judo, Kali, Thai kickboxing do this.  Street fights have no rules but martial artists who don't have live training are not in the ball park.  



Chuck Norris has a black belt in BJJ with the Machado bros.  He studied BJJ after meeting the Gracies.


----------



## MS Medic

firecoins said:


> MMA does not have any rules. UFC and other MMA leagues have rules as required by state law.  UFC orginally had no rules and was on its way to becoming illegal.



Actually UFC 1 had three rules:
1. No eye gouging
2. No fishhooking
3. The third one eludes me at this time.

But current MMA is a sport. Most practioners train to participate in the paramaters of the league they operate in. And if you look at the current rules of the UFC and watch UFC one, you will notice that alot of those rules eliminate many of the winning techniques of the Gracies.

And my comments about Chuck Norris were not derogatory. He is the man and tournament Karate was a real sport for martial artists back in his day.


----------



## firecoins

> But current MMA is a sport. Most practioners train to participate in the paramaters of the league they operate in. And if you look at the current rules of the UFC and watch UFC one, you will notice that alot of those rules eliminate many of the wining techniques of the Gracies.



It s not the rules that eliminate most of the Gracie techniques.  It isn't the kickboxer versus the grappler anymore.  Everyone has trained in BJJ or wrestling or judo even if it isn't their strength.  They have a ground game unlike in UFC 1 where no one knew of BJJ. 

The point of MMA is to train in all ranges of fighting. BJJ doesn't do it by itself. One must train in boxing and karate too.  Chuck Norris saw the value in this and took up BJJ.

It is the live training in all ranges of combat that makes it special.


----------



## MS Medic

You edited the post before I could get to it firecoins, but no I was not being derogatory to MMA. I did not imply that it was not a sport vs old krarate. In fact, I was making a possitive comparison. My point was directed at irish_handgrenade's thought that MMA was more a combat art than any other.
The comment about tournement Karate in Chuck Norris's was more a poorly organized thought about the current no contact rules of alot of karate and TKD tournements. But once again, I go back to my ice cream analogy in that the current method of tournement MA would not exist if it was not what most people wanted.


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## MS Medic

P.S. firecoins, thanks for not letting this turning into the contentious "my art is better than yours" stuff and keyboard bashing that has caused me to keep away from martial arts forums.


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## fortsmithman

irish_handgrenade said:


> The majority of marshal arts that involve a gi and a bunch of different belts



I always thought it was martial arts, and not marshal arts.


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## firecoins

MS Medic said:


> P.S. firecoins, thanks for not letting this turning into the contentious "my art is better than yours" stuff and keyboard bashing that has caused me to keep away from martial arts forums.



You contributed to that sentiment. You said karate like what Chuck Norris did was a real sport. It inferred that your saying MMA was not. And you expressed the sentiment that MMA practioners are arrogant while they are beaten by "street fighters" in real life because of rules.  Certainly seems like you are inferring certain arts are better than others. Your at least bashing MMA.


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## irish_handgrenade

fortsmithman said:


> I always thought it was martial arts, and not marshal arts.



DAMN YOU SPELL CHECK!!!
ok that aside being able to wrestle and subdue an opponent has worked out for me more than being able to throw haymaker punches or being able to throw a roundhouse head kick... Any idiot can throw a punch, and very few karate practitioners and ninjutsu, or whatever, have absolutely no idea how to defend them selves against cockstrong idiots. I on the other hand(happen to have a knack for pissing people off... go figure) and I have found the majority of the idiots that wanna hit me rarely do so when I put them on their back and start bending something the wrong direction, or when I cut the blood supply off to the brain. Honestly never really have to throw a punch or a kick and I have come off unscathed after more than one encounter. My basic premise is "martial" arts are great for staying in shape and most are poor ways of defending yourself. Street fighters...? please lol they step into my cage every friday and rarely last more than a round against my less experienced team mates.


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## docholiday07

irish_handgrenade said:


> DAMN YOU SPELL CHECK!!!
> ok that aside being able to wrestle and subdue an opponent has worked out for me more than being able to throw haymaker punches or being able to throw a roundhouse head kick... Any idiot can throw a punch, and very few karate practitioners and ninjutsu, or whatever, have absolutely no idea how to defend them selves against cockstrong idiots. I on the other hand(happen to have a knack for pissing people off... go figure) and I have found the majority of the idiots that wanna hit me rarely do so when I put them on their back and start bending something the wrong direction, or when I cut the blood supply off to the brain. Honestly never really have to throw a punch or a kick and I have come off unscathed after more than one encounter. My basic premise is "martial" arts are great for staying in shape and most are poor ways of defending yourself. Street fighters...? please lol they step into my cage every friday and rarely last more than a round against my less experienced team mates.



a lot of the anatomical knowledge that goes along with the practice of specific martial arts like aikido and ninpo i've found offer a lot of advantages and ways to end a fight without excess violence.  i personally dont like causing excessive harm, and have found that through the use of nerve striking, and the throws and locks of aikido, i still have next to no problems when it comes to ending a fight.  im not into MMA, and much prefer sparring with my fellow martial artists, and of course using it when needed in real life situations.

also, sort of unrelated, i dislike the fact that this thread has degenerated into a thread about beating people up  i dont care if you study jeet kun do or BJJ, but martial arts is not about causing harm, but rather bettering ones self.


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## Trayos

I would actually recommend Aikido, though it may not be as available as some more "common" martial arts. It is much more defense oriented, and would suit somebody in an EMS field well, since you can subdue an attacker without having to injure them (in a worst case scenario, where you would then leave immediately). The general atmosphere is nice, too.


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## fma08

I'm a student of the Old Spice School of martial arts. You may have seen our advertisement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecjjX18Wlpw

In reality, I do aikido. I absolutely love it.


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## DT4EMS

Trayos said:


> I would actually recommend Aikido, though it may not be as available as some more "common" martial arts. It is much more defense oriented, and would suit somebody in an EMS field well, since you can subdue an attacker without having to injure them (in a worst case scenario, where you would then leave immediately). The general atmosphere is nice, too.



A common misconception is there are self-defense techniques that do not injure...... any time you use any force there is a possibility of injury........maybe not from the actual technique applied, but the reflexive movements that may occur secondary to the application of force. (the guy pulls away fast and slips and falls etc.)

EMS has no business attempting to "subdue" or control an attacker. Regardless of the style of martial art...... 

I am a fan of any contact art.....period. But this mentality of "control" of an aggressive attacker is nonsense.


----------



## jjesusfreak01

DT4EMS said:


> I am a fan of any contact art.....period. But this mentality of "control" of an aggressive attacker is nonsense.



Nonsense, if I put him on the ground with a roundhouse to the head and he stops moving...he is controlled.


I do TKD btw.


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## medicRob

I have my black belt, first degree in Chinese Kenpo. I am about to start work toward my 2nd degree under the instruction of a 6th degree sensei. It took me right at 9 years to reach my black belt, with a 4 year break in between my purple and blue belt. I am currently going through the WKKA's instructor certification process. I am very excited about it.


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## medicRob

plz delete


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## medicRob

Double post. Srry. Mod Please delete.


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## DT4EMS

jjesusfreak01 said:


> Nonsense, if I put him on the ground with a roundhouse to the head and he stops moving...he is controlled.
> 
> 
> I do TKD btw.



WOW...... congrats if you can pull that off......

But seriously........ my comment was made about martial arts and EMS providers attempting to "control" a person in the back of an ambulance or on a scene somewhere.

The issues are two fold...........first......... 

What type of person are you dealing with?

If it is a patient, on what basis is your "control" is it to control and uncooperative patient who is confused due to IDDM, post-ictal, head injury etc? In that case most state laws AND protocols allow for medical "control" using restraints be it chemical and or mechanical. 

Now if you are attempting to control an "attacker" who may have started out as a "patient" because you were dispatched to them........why are you trying to control them? Why not create the space to escape? Plus taking "control" of a person other than a medical patient leaves you and many services in a very gray area. Most state statutes DO NOT ALLOW restraining a person for provider protection. Some service protocols may be in violation of state laws. This is an issue I have brought to the attention of State EMS Bureaus and they are actively working on correcting the problem.

My point of my reply was getting people to consider "who" and "when" to control.

So again I say........ congrats if your skill level is of that of a person who can pull of a head high kick in the heat of a self-defense situation. Just please be confident of the timing in which you chose to use such skill. If "reasonable" you are golden. If considered excessive things may not go so well.


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## jjesusfreak01

No, I could put a kick that high, but if I missed, it would take a few seconds to recover from pulling every muscle, tendon, and nerve in my leg. In a real situation, I would just hope the person left, and if he decided to try and fight, it would be a fist swept into his torso or head hard enough to put him down.


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## irish_handgrenade

jjesusfreak01 said:


> No, I could put a kick that high, but if I missed, it would take a few seconds to recover from pulling every muscle, tendon, and nerve in my leg. In a real situation, I would just hope the person left, and if he decided to try and fight, it would be a fist swept into his torso or head hard enough to put him down.



Regardless of the situation, striking another person in the back of the ambulance be it self defense or not will be the loss of your job and possibly your cert, I promise. Pay attention to your pt, your surroundings, and be prepared before hand. Yet another reason for BJJ, I can control a pt. in the back with out hurting the pt or myself if for some reason I was attacked. I have had to subdue a pt. in the back of the ambulance to protect a third rider once, but I took full responsibility due to the fact I should have been more prepared for the possibility of the pt to be violent. Everything worked out fine due to the fact that no one was hurt in the end and the pt did not realize what was going on, and had no recolection of the event. There is always another way and hitting someone rarely is the best course of action, but you keep that mindset and let us know how it works out for you.


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## ZVNEMT

I practice BJJ purely for sport, after thinking about it, I figure using it on a Pt for whatever reason would result in my getting bitten, and spending alot of time in a hospital getting tests done... and possibly jail time...


----------



## medicRob

Epi-do said:


> Just wanted to share with everyone that we tested today, and I got my yellow belt!  (and it was really cool to be able to break a board, too!)



Congratulations!


----------



## jjesusfreak01

Bill Cosby on Karate

It's very important that you can break a brick or a stick, because if you're ever held up...some guy says, "Gimme your dough", you can turn around, break a brick, break a stick, and then give him your dough.


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## bigk428

Long time lurker and a first time poster...

I've been training in boxing for about 3 years and I've started competing last year as an amateur. It's required a great deal of dedication in terms of diet, training and the dreaded process of making weight but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

If anyone is looking for a great way to get in shape I'd suggest learning how to box. I believe it's also one of the best forms of self defense. If you don't want to get punched in the face you can just avoid the sparring or competition but it really is a lot of fun.


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## fortsmithman

Today I became a paid up member of my town's MMA club.  So Ill see how much fat I lose and how much muscle I gain.


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## EMT012

Hello,

I'm new to this forum...

I've been a Martial Arts practitioner for over 21 years. My first system was in Tae Kwon Do and Shorin Ryu Karate. I hold a 1st Dan in TKD. I've also trained in Boxing and Wrestling. This also includes several other systems, not for sport! I'm also involved with Defensive Tactics and Self Defense training. Nice to meet everyone!


Is anyone currently doing any program with EMS Defensive Tactics Training?


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## fit4duty

EMT012 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to this forum...
> 
> I've been a Martial Arts practitioner for over 21 years. My first system was in Tae Kwon Do and Shorin Ryu Karate. I hold a 1st Dan in TKD. I've also trained in Boxing and Wrestling. This also includes several other systems, not for sport! I'm also involved with Defensive Tactics and Self Defense training. Nice to meet everyone!
> 
> 
> Is anyone currently doing any program with EMS Defensive Tactics Training?



Kip Teisort does. He posts on this site and presents around the country. Check out his site at www.dt4ems.com


----------



## EMT012

Yeah I know about Kip. I was actually meaning anyone else?


----------



## Cory

I've taken Tae Kwon Do since I was nine years old. I'm an instructor, state and city gold metalist all events (but not state champion:glare and despite all this I still haven't tested for my black belt, because I left for quite some time due to a massive foot injury. I'm FINALLY promoting to black in November of next year though.

I know a lot of people tend to just consider Tae Kwon Do a very simple and Americanized, watered down martial art, and at many schools it is, but when your school and instructors are the real deal, there's nothing better. At my school, it's so much more than a sport. I still think deciding to learn Tae Kwon Do was one of the best decisions of my life. I hope to go to Korea some day and experience the origins and traditions of the art.

Epi-Do: Definitely stick with it! It is amazing how much progress a student can make in just one year. Physically, taking tae kwon do comepletely changed my life (I am naturally VERY skinny, but in recent years,working out has kept me at a healthy build) not to mention all of the awesome lessons I have learned so far. If you do progress into senior belt ranks, I reakky suggest competeing in some local tournaments. They are a lot of fun, but also give you insight into how other people learn and master tae kwon do. Also, if you're school offers any kind of cardio workouts or classes, seriously consider those, they help tremdously!


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## EMT012

Cory said:


> I've taken Tae Kwon Do since I was nine years old. I'm an instructor, state and city gold metalist all events (but not state champion:glare and despite all this I still haven't tested for my black belt, because I left for quite some time due to a massive foot injury. I'm FINALLY promoting to black in November of next year though.
> 
> I know a lot of people tend to just consider Tae Kwon Do a very simple and Americanized, watered down martial art, and at many schools it is, but when your school and instructors are the real deal, there's nothing better. At my school, it's so much more than a sport. I still think deciding to learn Tae Kwon Do was one of the best decisions of my life. I hope to go to Korea some day and experience the origins and traditions of the art.



It depends on what form of Tae Kwon Do you participate in, not all do Sport and their is a difference between Sport and Art!! If you ever go to South Korea and visit the Kukkiwon and World Tae Kwon Do Federation, be prepared to practice all day, everyday. 

What form of Tae Kwon Do do you do?

WTF- Olympic Sport 
ITF- Focuses more on Gen Choi original concept-(Self Defense/ Unarmed Combat) they don't participate in Sport as much!! 
(Originally Tae Kwon Do was not to be Sport (Gen Choi was against it), however around 1972, the South Korean government thought it would be a good idea to introduce Tae Kwon Do as sport to the world in 1988, during a demo at the olympics. Since then we've all seen how it's unfold!) :sad:

Question: Your an Instructor, but have not obtained the rank of Black Belt? So are you an assistant?, senior assistant?


----------



## EMT012

Cory said:


> I know a lot of people tend to just consider Tae Kwon Do a very simple and Americanized, watered down martial art, and at many schools it is, but when your school and instructors are the real deal, there's nothing better. At my school, it's so much more than a sport. I still think deciding to learn Tae Kwon Do was one of the best decisions of my life. I hope to go to Korea some day and experience the origins and traditions of the art.



Just remember to many Taekwondoists, Tae Kwon Do is NOT just a Sport or Passion, rather it is a way of life!! (Especially in Korea)... And when I say that I mean you practice 4-8 hours everyday, 6-7 days a week. ^_^


----------



## EMT012

ZVNEMT said:


> I practice BJJ purely for sport, after thinking about it, I figure using it on a Pt for whatever reason would result in my getting bitten, and spending alot of time in a hospital getting tests done... and possibly jail time...



I love BJJ not for Sport but......

lol. If you got bit by a Pt you either did something incorrectly or weren't paying close enough attention!! Of course if your ever attacked by a pt you might think and do differently! :glare:

You should never have to 'Use Force' against a patient period. The only reasons would be #1. Patient poses a threat to themselves and/or you (if no LEO are around) #2. Patient attempts to attack you, either on scene or in back of the rig. But even with those you could still face legal troubles and 'Escape' should be your priority and goal. I will add that liability, protocals, state laws, and company rules always or should always dictate your response in those situations. It's always the 'ifs' and 'buts' and/or 'whens', 'whose' or 'hows'... This is a complicated issue!


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## johnrsemt

Wow, Epi;   I am impressed,  you started an 11 page thread, and there was NO arguements anywhere on it.     
  don't think I  have ever seen that before


----------



## Cory

EMT012 said:


> It depends on what form of Tae Kwon Do you participate in, not all do Sport and their is a difference between Sport and Art!! If you ever go to South Korea and visit the Kukkiwon and World Tae Kwon Do Federation, be prepared to practice all day, everyday.
> 
> What form of Tae Kwon Do do you do?
> 
> WTF- Olympic Sport
> ITF- Focuses more on Gen Choi original concept-(Self Defense/ Unarmed Combat) they don't participate in Sport as much!!
> (Originally Tae Kwon Do was not to be Sport (Gen Choi was against it), however around 1972, the South Korean government thought it would be a good idea to introduce Tae Kwon Do as sport to the world in 1988, during a demo at the olympics. Since then we've all seen how it's unfold!) :sad:
> 
> Question: Your an Instructor, but have not obtained the rank of Black Belt? So are you an assistant?, senior assistant?




We have a distinct mixture of the two, depending on what night of the week the student chooses to attend and depending on what master instructor is in charge that night. One night you might spar all day. Another night may consist of just stretching, Korean terminology, and forms (and the occasional history lesson or bo staff training). Other nights are centered around self defense. It sounds hectic, but it's actually extremely structured. We also have large groups of students (usually the more...competent ones) who train for tournaments and just work out for hours. Those are the dedicated ones. But as a senior rank, I'm pretty experienced in WTF and ITF.

Like I said, I'vd been competeing in major tournaments since I was nine. I'm very familiar with sport oriented Tae Kwon Do,I live for it. But the more artistic side is very important also.


----------



## EMT012

Cory said:


> We have a distinct mixture of the two, depending on what night of the week the student chooses to attend and depending on what master instructor is in charge that night. One night you might spar all day. Another night may consist of just stretching, Korean terminology, and forms (and the occasional history lesson or bo staff training). Other nights are centered around self defense. It sounds hectic, but it's actually extremely structured. We also have large groups of students (usually the more...competent ones) who train for tournaments and just work out for hours. Those are the dedicated ones. But as a senior rank, I'm pretty experienced in WTF and ITF.
> 
> Like I said, I'vd been competeing in major tournaments since I was nine. I'm very familiar with sport oriented Tae Kwon Do,I live for it. But the more artistic side is very important also.



Usually it's up to the Instructor and/or School.


----------



## Cory

Oh, and I guess by official standards, I'm not an actual "instructor", but I do teach classes almost every day, but never as the master instructor, so yes I'm an assistant instructor.


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## Naota_X

ive been reading up on bruce lees books they are pretty good i dont have money atm to take a real class so im kinda just self teaching with books and dvds


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## firecoins

Start a group if you can not afford classes.  You aren't the only one in Detroit with interest and a lack of money.


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## EMS*Princess

I took Taekwondo for about a year- earned my green belt too...wow, that was a long time ago


----------



## medicRob

Well, as ive said before, I am a 1st degree black in Kenpo. However, I am leaning more to the study of special forces techniques at the moment. I was wondering are there any other martial artists here at EMT-Life that enjoy studying the Physio-anatomical aspects of hand to hand combat, particularly with regard to the interruption of neural transmission in one strike knockout techniques? I am absolutely fascinated when I review the physiology behind these advanced combat techniques, anyone else?


----------



## Naota_X

medicRob said:


> Well, as ive said before, I am a 1st degree black in Kenpo. However, I am leaning more to the study of special forces techniques at the moment. I was wondering are there any other martial artists here at EMT-Life that enjoy studying the Physio-anatomical aspects of hand to hand combat, particularly with regard to the interruption of neural transmission in one strike knockout techniques? I am absolutely fascinated when I review the physiology behind these advanced combat techniques, anyone else?



yes i have another book thats called vital point stikes its really cool to think of all the diffent ways that can ko people its really fascinating


----------



## medicRob

Naota_X said:


> yes i have another book thats called vital point stikes its really cool to think of all the diffent ways that can ko people its really fascinating



Cool. Yeah, my wife has been out cold for about an hour now, think I should check on her?


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## Naota_X

medicRob said:


> Cool. Yeah, my wife has been out cold for about an hour now, think I should check on her?



 u should flee shes pobably going to be mad at u


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## irish_handgrenade

One strike knockouts... good luck, Ive competed in mixed martial arts for 5 years and I will tell you its a helluva lot easier said than done and is usually an accident. Most "traditional" martial arts are watered down versions of old combat forms, and are no longer efficient forms of combat. Yes they are better than no type of training at all, but against a fighter trained in an actual combat sport ie: boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo, or general mma. They will rarely hold their own and if they do it's rarely do to the art, but rather the practitioner. Back before it was understood for it's legitimacy there would be TKD, Karate, or Kung Fu practitioners and even instructors that would come to our gym and most left with an injury and/or being assisted to their vehicle. Now all the local TKD, and karate places are claiming to teach mma and bjj because they know they can draw in new clients by putting it on their business signs, but they don't make that kind of claim when anyone from our gym is around. Not bashing "traditional" martial arts, in fact for what they are they have an extraordinary ammount of benefits, but do not kid youself in to thinking they are a valid or efficient type of combat or self defense.... This post might piss some of you off, thats ok my opinion isn't for everyone, but its an opinion thats been validated more than a few times.


----------



## medicRob

irish_handgrenade said:


> One strike knockouts... good luck, Ive competed in mixed martial arts for 5 years and I will tell you its a helluva lot easier said than done and is usually an accident. Most "traditional" martial arts are watered down versions of old combat forms, and are no longer efficient forms of combat. Yes they are better than no type of training at all, but against a fighter trained in an actual combat sport ie: boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo, or general mma. They will rarely hold their own and if they do it's rarely do to the art, but rather the practitioner. Back before it was understood for it's legitimacy there would be TKD, Karate, or Kung Fu practitioners and even instructors that would come to our gym and most left with an injury and/or being assisted to their vehicle. Now all the local TKD, and karate places are claiming to teach mma and bjj because they know they can draw in new clients by putting it on their business signs, but they don't make that kind of claim when anyone from our gym is around. Not bashing "traditional" martial arts, in fact for what they are they have an extraordinary ammount of benefits, but do not kid youself in to thinking they are a valid or efficient type of combat or self defense.... This post might piss some of you off, thats ok my opinion isn't for everyone, but its an opinion thats been validated more than a few times.



Well, ive been a Black Belt 1st degree in Chinese Kenpo for 4 years now. I am affiliated with WKKA, etc.. so my martial arts background is professional. My original intent when I first pursued one strikes was simple, I did not want it from a traditional martial arts perspective. I wanted "Special Forces" techniques, and I wanted pure science behind them.  The kind of knock outs I am looking for are not something I would ever use in any situation where my life wasn't directly threatened. I am speaking of strikes which interrupt neural pathways, etc. and are lethal, the kind that you would never use in competition or any other type of fighting where your life is not directly threatened.  I found exactly what I have been looking for with Red Shift Labs and a couple of resources provided to me by a friend who is an active captain in the US Military with a history of service as both a Marine and a Navy Seal. Katas and Self-defense techniques are pretty, and can be effective. However, I am looking this time for down and dirty quick knock out techniques.  Thank you for your input though, and good luck in MMA.


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## Kthanid

Medicrob,there is a difference between what is the best and and what is taught best. Consider a mil or even SF unarmed combat course is like any combat course, or any army course in fact.
aka its about teaching a varied group of varying ability and varying attention spans something 'basic' and 'basically effective' in the shortest and most economic amount of time.

Like an SF driving course does not make you a great offroad driver, or the medic course does not make you a trauma surgeon lol, krav maga doesn't protect you from the leg kick of a pro mauy thai guy or the double leg takedown of a competitive wrestler. Its not in its scope.

We used to teach the guys some basic boxing, some nasty strikes(eyes, groin) a bit of basic grappling(and weapon disarm) and a little ground grappling (like judo, jujitsu uses for joint locks and chokes) and tell them if they wanted to get real dangerous(or if they were bored ) to take up a full contact fighting sport in their own time. Eg MMA, BJJ, boxing, muay thai or even folkstyle wrestling.


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## medicRob

Kthanid said:


> Medicrob,there is a difference between what is the best and and what is taught best. Consider a mil or even SF unarmed combat course is like any combat course, or any army course in fact.
> aka its about teaching a varied group of varying ability and varying attention spans something 'basic' and 'basically effective' in the shortest and most economic amount of time.
> 
> Like an SF driving course does not make you a great offroad driver, or the medic course does not make you a trauma surgeon lol, krav maga doesn't protect you from the leg kick of a pro mauy thai guy or the double leg takedown of a competitive wrestler. Its not in its scope.
> 
> We used to teach the guys some basic boxing, some nasty strikes(eyes, groin) a bit of basic grappling(and weapon disarm) and a little ground grappling (like judo, jujitsu uses for joint locks and chokes) and tell them if they wanted to get real dangerous(or if they were bored ) to take up a full contact fighting sport in their own time. Eg MMA, BJJ, boxing, muay thai or even folkstyle wrestling.



What would you recommend Kthanid?


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## Kthanid

oops double up


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## firecoins

medicRob said:


> The kind of knock outs I am looking for are not something I would ever use in any situation where my life wasn't directly threatened. I am speaking of strikes which interrupt neural pathways, etc. and are lethal, the kind that you would never use in competition or any other type of fighting where your life is not directly threatened.



You want to learn techiques you can't use unless your trying to kill someone?  So how will you become effective in using such techniqes if you cant use them against a non-cooperative opponnent.


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## medicRob

firecoins said:


> You want to learn techiques you can't use unless your trying to kill someone?  So how will you become effective in using such techniqes if you cant use them against a non-cooperative opponnent.



Lol. I just want to study them, that is all.


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## medicRob

Found what I was lookin for:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuigcXvcy1A[/YOUTUBE]


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## LHKJohn

Old, but interesting thread. Fellow martial artist here. Been training in Muay Thai and Boxing for about 15 years or so and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for 7 years. Fought in a bunch of amateur boxing and MT fights and Still compete in BJJ tournaments quite regularly.  I'm not into the whole "my martial art is better than your martial art" thing as I believe they all have something to offer, but in terms of self defense, I think you HAVE to crosstrain to be effective. There is no end all be all IMO.

_-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums_


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## Gray

Krav Maga here. I did take some Aikido many years back but it was not what I was looking for at the time. In a few more years I'd like to take it up, but spending 20 minutes after each class meditating instead of class time it felt wasted. I study under Gershon Ben Keren, who studies directly under Dennis Hanover. I start more studied stand up soon and if I can I'd love to get some BJJ going.


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