# Burnout, job satisfaction, career ranking.



## Granola EMT (Jan 28, 2009)

I've heard/read that EMS has a high burnout rate. 5 years I think is the max.?
I for one work with a lot of 10+ year medics. I guess I'm wondering if anyone knows how a career in EMS ranks in the nation. As apposed to police, lawyers etc. I for one consider it the coolest/best job I've ever had and when the day comes that I dont want to do it anymore I will look for something else. 
long hours, stress aside


I would like to hear some input from people in other areas of the country and types of services. ( fire based, hospital based, privet services)


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## BossyCow (Jan 28, 2009)

Granola EMT said:


> I've heard/read that EMS has a high burnout rate. 5 years I think is the max.?
> I for one work with a lot of 10+ year medics. I guess I'm wondering if anyone knows how a career in EMS ranks in the nation. As apposed to police, lawyers etc. I for one consider it the coolest/best job I've ever had and when the day comes that I dont want to do it anymore I will look for something else.
> long hours, stress aside
> 
> ...



This is an average and includes those who enter EMS with the starry eyed optimisim unbased in reality of the truly under educated. A lot of people start their EMS career wanting to be a hero and quit when they find out it's work. I think they skew the statistics somewhat. I know many career medics in fire/hospital/private systems who have been doing this job for 15 years plus. My husband has been at it for almost 20 years.


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## Granola EMT (Jan 28, 2009)

Thats one thing I was thinking about. I have seen a few medics (with no prior experience) Call it quits etc. before they even finish their first year.


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## Aidey (Jan 28, 2009)

I don't know any of the statistics you are looking for, but I agree that a lot of people in EMS fall into 2 categories. The "lifers" who are around for ages, and the bright eyed, bushy tailed type who only last 2 -3 years. 

The biggest difference I've seen between the two is that the lifers learned pretty quick that they need to have a life outside of EMS, even if it's a knitting circle or something. A lot of the people I've seen burn out in the 5+ years I've been doing this came in, lived, breathed & ate Fire/EMS and just didn't know how to take a step back and finally crashed and burned out. I've also seen the guys who got involved for the girls and the glory before realizing most women in the fire service don't date their co-workers and it's also a fairly thankless job. They all dropped out pretty quick too.


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## Veneficus (Jan 28, 2009)

don't know about you guys but I got in it for the money 

Really though, I find that most in EMS (including myself) float around till we find a place we like. Some find it right away, some take a few years. I found moving every few years broke up the monotony and the new environments keep the job fresh. I also got to learn a lot of stuff, see it done differently in different places, and have met some of the best friends anyone could ever hope for. (some employers don't like that, but considering what they pay and their opinion of employees, I didn't really care) But some good services really frown upon that. A few address it with a real career ladder. But those are few and far between. (except for FDs, but that is another discussion)

a lot of really motivated people, like ones you'll find on this board, usually have to move to a different healthcare position but still remain part of EMS in some way. That is why it is always dangerous when you get to the ED and say something like "things are different in the field" because the multi role providers will not really fall for that line. I know several physicians, nurses, rts, and 1 pa (though I do not like her much) that are also medics.

Lack of a career path is one of the major obstacles facing US EMS. (or even IFT) Personally I think it is the most significant issue for burnout. You get a bunch of highly motivated people, who give all they got but never get to go anywhere. So they move out.


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## marineman (Jan 28, 2009)

I agree with what was mentioned so far and I have to add a very important factor in early burnout is where you work. I work on a service in Milwaukee where we run 18-20ish calls in an average 24 hour shift. One of the most senior guys there has been there for 7 years. I do my ride alongs in a smaller area closer to home where an average crew runs 4-6 calls in an average 24 hour shift. At this company if you have less than 10 years in you will be considered a newbie and will not get your pick of stations. There are a couple guys that have worked at this company alone for 20+ years.


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## BossyCow (Jan 28, 2009)

I think a key is not to get greedy. Those overtime shifts sure sound great and the pay is wonderful but they are a sure path to burn out if you overdo it.


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## Sapphyre (Jan 28, 2009)

Aidey said:


> The biggest difference I've seen between the two is that the lifers learned pretty quick that they need to have a life outside of EMS, *even if it's a knitting circle* or something.




Hey, don't knock the knitters!!!!  You know we COULD hurt you with our needles, right???

/me picks up her knitting and works away


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## Ridryder911 (Jan 28, 2009)

The reason there is burn out is because over all the job sucks. It is rated as one of the worst professions to get in and be in. The pay, hours, benefits, and so on is horrible. True one can receive job satisfaction by performing well for only so long, then something has to give.. personal satisfaction, family, goals, or sanity. Unfortunately, many of the lifers will describe at least one or learned how to cope and deal with the struggles to stay in EMS. As one I made poor decisions and one of the few that has been in the business for over three decades have seen many similarities. 

My dissatisfaction is not so much the business but the majority that enter the profession that really have no desire to provide patient care or at the most limited to half arse patient care. 

The continuous fight to improve system is getting harder each day. Yet someone has to do it. 

R/r 911


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## fortsmithman (Jan 28, 2009)

BossyCow said:


> This is an average and includes those who enter EMS with the starry eyed optimisim unbased in reality of the truly under educated. A lot of people start their EMS career wanting to be a hero and quit when they find out it's work. I think they skew the statistics somewhat. I know many career medics in fire/hospital/private systems who have been doing this job for 15 years plus. My husband has been at it for almost 20 years.




Also people who enter law enforcement who think that it's all chasing bad guys and gals,  high speed pursuits sometime leave the job when they find out that the job is a lot of paper work and dealing with inebriated persons who hate you more than they hate EMS and fire.  Also fire probably have people like that too.  But there are people who have been in EMS for 20yrs and up.  I personally know one paramedic who's been on the job for 31 yrs and he still loves the job.  Here in Canada we have a medal awarded by the federal govt called the EMS Exemplary Service Medal which I believe is awarded for 20 yrs service.  I wonder if there are any Canadian EMTLife members who may have been awarded that medal


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## Shishkabob (Jan 28, 2009)

So.. it's the EMS ESM?


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## fortsmithman (Jan 28, 2009)

Linuss said:


> So.. it's the EMS ESM?


Yes it would be never thought of it that way.


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## Aidey (Jan 29, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> Hey, don't knock the knitters!!!!  You know we COULD hurt you with our needles, right???
> 
> /me picks up her knitting and works away



I meant no offense to the knitters, it was just the first hobby that came to mind. 

*is all thumbs and can't knit to save her life*


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## triemal04 (Jan 29, 2009)

marineman said:


> I agree with what was mentioned so far and I have to add a very important factor in early burnout is where you work. I work on a service in Milwaukee where we run 18-20ish calls in an average 24 hour shift. One of the most senior guys there has been there for 7 years. I do my ride alongs in a smaller area closer to home where an average crew runs 4-6 calls in an average 24 hour shift. At this company if you have less than 10 years in you will be considered a newbie and will not get your pick of stations. There are a couple guys that have worked at this company alone for 20+ years.


Bingo!  Not just where you work but call volume.  The ability to have downtime and get a break between calls goes a long way towards avoiding burnout; reduced stress, reduced fatigue, increased safety, and fewer pt's all will help avoid it.  18-20 in 24 hours is ridiculous; decrease the length of shifts or add more ambulances to the system.  There was a study done awhile back I think that showed that the optimum number of pt's a paramedic should see (I don't remember all the numbers except for a 24/48 schedule) during 1 shift was 5.


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## jochi1543 (Jan 30, 2009)

I've met a few people who work in places where it's constantly go-go-go, and their definition of full-time schedule is usually 2 on, 6 off. I work for a slow service, and we are 4 on, 4 off for full-time.


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## jochi1543 (Jan 30, 2009)

Granola EMT said:


> Thats one thing I was thinking about. I have seen a few medics (with no prior experience) Call it quits etc. before they even finish their first year.



LOL, we had a dude quit during practicum. He had a few calls and said it just wasn't for him - after dropping like 8 grand on his EMS education.


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## medic417 (Jan 30, 2009)

When you get off duty leave EMS behind.  Do not talk to people from work.  Have friends that are not EMS.  Do not let EMS become your sole excuse for existing, if you do your life will be bad.  Do not spend all your free time looking for new EMS gadgets and tats.  EMS is a job not a life style.  

Follow my advice and you can have a long happy career.  Let EMS consume you and you will burn out.


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## marineman (Jan 30, 2009)

medic417 said:


> When you get off duty leave EMS behind.  Do not talk to people from work.  Have friends that are not EMS.  Do not let EMS become your sole excuse for existing, if you do your life will be bad.  Do not spend all your free time looking for new EMS gadgets and tats.  EMS is a job not a life style.
> 
> Follow my advice and you can have a long happy career.  Let EMS consume you and you will burn out.



I didn't go through and read the whole thread but that sounds really familiar. Did you copy and paste that from the other thread that's exactly the same?

I don't entirely agree since most of my friends are in EMS but we all have an understanding that what happens at work stays at work and what happens at home stays at home. We can go out for beers at night and never mention work. As long as you can do that I wouldn't say you need to avoid other EMT's as friends just know that you can't take this job home with you.


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## Anu (Jan 30, 2009)

*Conveying a thought..*

Being a paramedic takes a special person.. A MEDIC, not a Basic.  It is truly an unique and challenging profession.  It's not just about medicine and patient care.  It's different from the hospital professions in that one is also in constant engagement with the environment; cities, towns, traffic, patients and their residencies, and (let's not talk about) the weather.  So it's no wonder so many feel burned out and underappreciated, considering how knowledgeable they might be about the communities they live and work in.

I believe those with the desire to provide an exceptional level of patient care move on to other professions in health where they can actually provide this level of care.  Especially when considering how limiting the scope of practice for a Basic is.  

Until the day that someone somewhere decides to do away with the concept of an EMT-B, the Basic will remain the stepping stone to other positions in health care.  It must be taken into consideration that probably half of those in EMS are in pursuit of some kind of medical degree.. and considering that Paramedics don't get paid as much as others do in the field of health, furthering one's education in EMS simply isn't viable.

I can't help but feel it all comes down to money.  Not patient care.


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