# Cleveland firefighters union: Don't train our dispatchers to help out swamped EMS



## CANDawg (Jul 25, 2012)

What do you think? Union run amuck, or valid concern?

http://mobile.cleveland.com/advcleve/pm_105126/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=gden85yg


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## Veneficus (Jul 25, 2012)

the FD wanted integrated fire/EMS. 

They got it, but obviously were not ready for what that meant.

The FD said they could do EMS better and cheaper, now they have their chance.


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## DrParasite (Jul 25, 2012)

Just from the news article.....

it's the same old problem, but in communications.....  why properly staff the EMS dispatch center with enough EMS dispatchers to do the job right, when you can just train fire dispatchers to do the jobs of EMS dispatchers in their downtime?  But in this case, it looks like the mayor wants to integrate the FD and EMS dispatcher centers, but he isn't negotiating about with the unions about how to do it.

There are several factors that need to be kept in mind.  Currently, Fire and EMS are completely separate, and the mayor wants to integrate them, but can't negotiate with the unions (for reasons mentioned in the article), with both sides pointing fingers at who is refusing to negotiate..  And now the new mayor wants to get rid of all the uniformed dispatchers, and replace them with civilian dispatchers to handle police, fire and EMS calls.

I got to say, hire enough EMS dispatchers to do the job.  than if you do get the merger to go through, cross train them for fire.  But if you want to force the dispatchers to learn skill (and fire and EMS dispatching is similar in some ways, and very different in others), than you should negotiate with the affected unions.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 25, 2012)

Oh, so EMS isn't part of fire responsibilities, union? Ok, then quit using EMS runs to pad your numbers to demand a higher budget. 

FD does crap on most of those calls anyhow.


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## EMDispatch (Jul 25, 2012)

DrParasite said:


> I got to say, hire enough EMS dispatchers to do the job.



But why would any government agency ever care about a 911 center? I've been told my job is no different than that of a taxi cab dispatcher...

I agree that it's the traditional Fire vs EMS bull. This is why in my opinion, you need to separate responding agencies from the PSAP, and make it a unique agency. That way you can get everyone to play ball in a neutral arena. Obviously it can't be done here with the unions. So instead it will be several years of litigation that will accomplish little, with the exception of increasing animosity and frustration. 

I'd also be curious to know what they're doing to address the stress issues faced by their dispatchers. Many agencies fail to do CISM with dispatchers, or offer them appropriate outlets, which could improve their mental well being.

In their position I'd also separate the 2 dispatch agencies until this nastiness is over. If they don't, it'll just create even worse animosity and resentment between the dispatchers.


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## mycrofft (Jul 25, 2012)

*"Fire Versus EMS, Thye Other EMTLIFE Black Hole"*






Call me cranky, but so MANY public EMS workers (and hence the preponderant emergency responders, versus IFT and home to hospital taxis) are FD that this is an issue I wish could be approached with less rancor and politics. 
Especially at City Hall


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## Farmer2DO (Jul 25, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> the FD wanted integrated fire/EMS.
> 
> They got it, but obviously were not ready for what that meant.
> 
> The FD said they could do EMS better and cheaper, now they have their chance.





Linuss said:


> Oh, so EMS isn't part of fire responsibilities, union? Ok, then quit using EMS runs to pad your numbers to demand a higher budget.



Agree.



DrParasite said:


> it's the same old problem, but in communications.....  why properly staff the EMS dispatch center with enough EMS dispatchers to do the job right, when you can just train fire dispatchers to do the jobs of EMS dispatchers in their downtime?



Efficiency?  So that taxpayers get more out of what they pay for?



> But in this case, it looks like the mayor wants to integrate the FD and EMS dispatcher centers, but he isn't negotiating about with the unions about how to do it.



Who cares?  If you're a public safety dispatcher, you should be worried about PUBLIC SAFETY.  And he wants to create a more efficient environment, getting the 911 calls answered, making sure ALL public safety crews are safe, and keeping his dispatchers from going getting burned out.  The union appears to not give a damn about any of that.



> And now the new mayor wants to get rid of all the uniformed dispatchers, and replace them with civilian dispatchers to handle police, fire and EMS calls.



Which sounds like a good idea to me.  Keeps costs down, keeps dispatchers from becoming crispy critters, improves public safety.



> I got to say, hire enough EMS dispatchers to do the job.



Good idea.  But in the meantime, RIGHT NOW, what are they going to do to get the phones and radios answered?  There is an immediate need for something to happen, which can't be fixed by hiring new people (a process unto itself) and training them.  At my local 911 center (which is top notch) that would probably be a year.  



> than if you do get the merger to go through,



Didn't that already happen?



> But if you want to force the dispatchers to learn skill (and fire and EMS dispatching is similar in some ways, and very different in others), than you should negotiate with the affected unions.



No.  Because the unions don't have the interests of the residents and their safety, or of the taxpayers wallets, at heart.  The mayor needs to provide for the safety of the people in his city and his employees NOW.  The dispatchers are still dispatching.

Eff the union.


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## Veneficus (Jul 25, 2012)

being from the area, i think the FD just thought a merger would be easier than reality dictates.


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## sweetpete (Jul 27, 2012)

I lived in Cleveland for 20 years prior to moving to Houston, I can say that Cleveland EMS used to be a GREAT service. They do the best with what they have. It's still pretty well respected, as is the FD. CFD is an aggressive, hard working department.

At the end of the day, Cleveland EMS will come out ahead in this deal. As far as the dispatchers go, it's a merry go round anyways. Nobody stays in the call center very long.

They either quit or transfer out to another department. The city's always hiring dispatchers. There's alot of turnover. The only real solution is to either hire more dispatchers (which will cost more) or pay better (which will cost more). Actually, on second thought, the only real solution is to pay better. IMHO.

Either way, those poor folks have a hard time handling the call volume that they deal with on a daily basis.

Take care,


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## medicsb (Jul 28, 2012)

sweetpete said:


> At the end of the day, Cleveland EMS will come out ahead in this deal. As far as the dispatchers go, it's a merry go round anyways. Nobody stays in the call center very long.



How can EMS come out ahead when they sold their "profession" out to another?  They've already shown that they can be walked upon.  This merger will be mediocre like most mergers (I can't think of any mergers that have been anything more than mediocre).  They're already looking to institute stupid, costly programs (e.g. ALS engines).  The FD will only do what it needs to do to support itself and EMS will come 2nd in nearly every decision (maybe sometimes it will be first, if the PR will benefit them).


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## DrParasite (Jul 28, 2012)

sweetpete said:


> Nobody stays in the call center very long.
> 
> They either quit or transfer out to another department. The city's always hiring dispatchers. There's alot of turnover. The only real solution is to either hire more dispatchers (which will cost more) or pay better (which will cost more). Actually, on second thought, the only real solution is to pay better. IMHO.


Everything you just said is a reason why people don't stay in dispatch.  People often think its easy until they actually sit in the chair.  

Having problems are normal, but when you high volume of turnover, not enough staff to do the job, low pay, can you see why no one wants to do it for long?  And apparently management doesn't want to do the job right, they want to bandaid it and pretend that it has permanently fixed the problem.

Its like EMS, do the job for a bit until something better happens, or until you can't take it any more.  If you see a job posting like that, would you want to do it for your career?


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## crazychick (Aug 3, 2012)

imo I feel like fire should be able to help across the board! they should be cross trained for dispatch as well as basics. Most times they are first on the scene anyway. I know with my volunteer fd, I plan on taking the 36 hour fire course so I can help out even though I will mainly be there for ems support. but we gotta be able to help across the board so things can run smoothly and swiftly


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