# Uniforms.



## Sasha (Feb 16, 2009)

I've had this conversation a couple times over the past few weeks and thought I'd put it out there for debate.

Do you feel students should be required to wear uniforms in class? Why or why not?

I personally don't feel that students should be required to wear uniforms in class. 

My school requires:

Maroon school polo (Which are over $40 a piece and somehow not covered by tuition.)
Navy blue pants, not "EMT" pants with a thousand pockets.
Belt.
Black socks
Black boots. And yes, boots, not just black closed toe shoe, must be boots.

Along with uniform each student is required to have with him or her, a stethescope, trauma shears, and pen light.  This is every day, not just lab days and we have dedicated lab and lecture day. Also long hair must be "restrained" and off the collar.

If someone can not be adult and dress themselves in appropriate attire for class, they probably shouldn't be in the class to begin with. I don't get the point of wearing a school uniform to sit in your classroom for lecture. I could sort of understand for lab days, and definitely for clinical and ride times, but for class alone? 

Think of how grungy that uniform is going to start looking after you wash it a million times due to having to wear it three plus days a week. Or even all the cross contamination from wearing it to the hospital, washing it, and wearing it the next day to school. To the best of my knowledge, the average washing machine doesn't get hot enough to kill all those exotic and exciting germs you may pick up from patients.

Thoughts? Love wearing a uniform in class? Hate it?


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## emtfarva (Feb 16, 2009)

When I was going through school we only had to wear our uniforms for ride time. Sasha, I think you are right about not wearing it in class. Clinicals and ride time definitely.

This kinda reminds me of the whole debate about wearing school uniforms in H.S.


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## Sapphyre (Feb 16, 2009)

I had to wear similar in school, but, instead of polos, we had the baby blue "first responder" shirts, with patches.  And everything had to be starched and pressed, long hair in high ponytails and off the face, boots polished, to high shine, at least on the toe caps, if not all over.  And, our gigline had to be straight....


This was for class, lab, and clinicals.


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## 41 Duck (Feb 16, 2009)

We're required to wear uniforms for clinicals and field time.  Not in class.  If we were required for class, it'd kind of bug me, for many of the same reasons you've already mentioned.



Later!

--Coop


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## EMT-B2B (Feb 16, 2009)

We have to wear white scool polo with EMS Star on it......navy blue EMS pants.....black shoes....black belt.....and name badge.....we only have to where it for labs and clinical time.


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## Sasha (Feb 16, 2009)

Seems blue is a common color choice.

But do you like it? Hate it? Do you feel that students should be made to wear them in class? Why or why not?


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## Airwaygoddess (Feb 16, 2009)

*Uniforms are a good thing!*

Well this is my spin on classroom uniforms, I strongly feel it is important to dress in class for 2 reasons.  First, most students have never been in that type of a para military setting, and do not know about that a certain image must be seen by the public.  This is a way of getting the student to get into that practice of looking professinal.  Anyone who has gone though a fire academy will also agree it is also a matter of having pride in what you do.  Second, this is a class room enviroment, I'm sorry I really don't want to see students various undergarments (Or lack of) being "out there" for everyone else to see.  Part of classroom time is also for skills practice, you need to be wearing clothing that not only covers but can move with you. I can't tell you how many times we had have fire department captains and ambulance supervisers come to our classes for giving lectures but also would just come by to check in.  You have to remember that if you are want to get hired, these ladies and gentlemen could also looking for possible new hires, first impressions are everything, especially to these folks.


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## karaya (Feb 16, 2009)

Pretty common to wear a uniform for paramedic classes. I see nothing wrong in promoting a professional appearance and pride. 

If your concerned that as a result of washing your uniform it became degraded in appearance, then maybe its time to buy a new uniform? No different than being on the road and keeping your uniform in a professional appearance. Eventually you will need to buy a new one.

Excellent points Airway!


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## Sasha (Feb 16, 2009)

> most students have never been in that type of a para military setting,



Para military? My school and schools in the area are nowhere near para military!



> I'm sorry I really don't want to see students various undergarments (Or lack of) being "out there" for everyone else to see.



Students who can't dress themselves shouldn't be in class, at all. I don't disagree with a dress code but a uniform? 

I don't see a uniform or lack thereof having anything to do with pride.


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## Sapphyre (Feb 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Seems blue is a common color choice.
> 
> But do you like it? Hate it? Do you feel that students should be made to wear them in class? Why or why not?




Grrr, let's try this again.


I loved it.  Didn't have to worry about what to wear at Oh-My-God-thirty AM.  It also identified who was supposed to be there, which was a big issue being as class was held on the grounds of a public safety academy, with several different police agencies, and at least one fire agency, as well as the college's police/fire/EMS classes being hosted there.

Now that I'm working, and wearing essentially the same uniform, it's not a big deal to me, unlike some of the people I work with.  Course, I did have "paramilitary" experience first, so that might be part of it.


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## JPINFV (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't buy the entire "look professional in the class room so that you look professional in the street" line. I think a simple screening test should be "Can you dress yourself properly to sit and listen to a lecture?" Jeans and a t-shirt? Acceptable. Jeans sagging so low that your underware is on display? Not so much. How many colleges and universities (including professional degree programs like medical school or PA school) require uniforms for their class rooms (Note: lectures, PBLs, etc, not going over to the hospital for clerkships, patient expereinces, interviewing courses, etc)? 

I think discussing paramilitary style of education can be done in another thread.


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## JPINFV (Feb 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Para military? My school and schools in the area are nowhere near para military!



If Sapphy went to the school I think she went to, they take the entire paramilitary concept to a whole new level. On the other hand, the schools marching band and winter indoor drumline is awesome. 

<3 RCC's band.

Riverside Community College's paramedic course video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kev2Sn42tUc


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## karaya (Feb 16, 2009)

Just what is your point here, Sasha?  This thread won't make a tinkers Damn difference in your class requirements.  Sounds to me your venting a beef about what your class and a thousands of others require and looking to see who will ally with you.


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## Sasha (Feb 16, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> If Sapphy went to the school I think she went to, they take the entire paramilitary concept to a whole new level. On the other hand, the schools marching band and winter indoor drumline is awesome.
> 
> <3 RCC's band.
> 
> Riverside Community College's paramedic course video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kev2Sn42tUc



Oh my god...Are they working out!? Seriously!? 

I think half my class would have quit if made to do one push up. (And I'm pretty sure half of that half can't do a push up.)


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## Sasha (Feb 16, 2009)

karaya said:


> Just what is your point here, Sasha?  This thread won't make a tinkers Damn difference in your class requirements.  Sounds to me your venting a beef about what your class and a thousands of others require and looking to see who will ally with you.



Actually, this thread isn't about me. I'm putting it up for debate because the conversation has come up, privately, with a few people on this board, and publically on another thread. I was wondering other people's opinions on it.

Do you have a problem with debate?


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## Shishkabob (Feb 16, 2009)

My school required uniforms.

Class days was black or navy blue pants, a royal blue polo T-shirt with our picture ID on it, boots and a belt.

Clinical were the same uniform, but with a white work shirt with the star of life on it with the schools name and "EMS" on it.



The medic class had the same uniform, but instead of blue shirts, they wore red. They also got to wear their "EMT Basic" or "EMT Intermediate" patch on their clinical shirts.


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## Sapphyre (Feb 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Oh my god...Are they working out!? Seriously!?
> 
> I think half my class would have quit if made to do one push up. (And I'm pretty sure half of that half can't do a push up.)



Yes, that's where Sapphy went, and yes, they're totally working out.  That's the Paramedic class though.  There IS an EMT video out there.  EMTs didn't work out (when I went through) other than a punitive action.  There was talk of implementing a PT program for EMT as well.

And, yes, they do take the idea of paramilitary to a whole 'nother level.  But, like JP said, that's a topic for another thread, and like this one, will only result in people who love it arguing with people who hate it.


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## jochi1543 (Feb 16, 2009)

My school required uniforms every day - pants, steel-toes, a dark solid-color t-shirt, and a shirt. Their explanation was that we need to get used to being in a uniform and know where all the pockets and compartments are. I feel it was more about them wanting to track us around the neighborhood, so that complaints about our behaviour would surely make it to the administration, since we were readily identifiable in the regular crowd.

And yes, women's hair always up, no dangly jewelry...ironically, a lot of the appearance requirements were way more stringent than the requirements at my job or practicum.


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## Scout (Feb 16, 2009)

I'd be saying wear it.

As fo rthe grubby issue, I wore a school uniform through high school for 6 year, thats 5 days a week for more than often the whole day. Thats pants, jumper, shirt, tie, and shoes/boots.
I'd have 5 shirts a year and they would all last for a year or 2.

I wear our working uniform now on most courses, rides, standby pritty much everything.
If you are required to wear a uniform get one that is of decent quality and it will last. When a shirt gets beyond presentable get rid of it. simple as


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## TransportJockey (Feb 16, 2009)

Only uniform we have is for clinicals and ride time. Blue school polo w/ patch, black work pants (doesn't have to be EMS Pants), belt, black boots, steth, pen light.


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## WarDance (Feb 16, 2009)

I guess we had it easy!  No uniforms for class.  There was actually one occasion I came straight from the soccer field (with some added deoderant of course).  For ride alongs and clinicals we wore any white polo, blue pants, black boots.  People actually complained about that!


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## reaper (Feb 16, 2009)

I see no problem with it and actually think it does look professional. Do you realize how many nursing classes wear the traditional white uniforms, everyday. I think they look very professional and should be an item of pride in your profession.

As stated, I think it teaches people to look professional, for when they hit the work field. I have sent multiple students home from clinicals for bad attire. They show up for ride times looking like slobs. Sorry, you don't get on my truck looking that way. If they wear uniforms everyday, then they are more likely to know how they should look.

It is all part of living in the big world. As you like to say Sasha, "pull on the big girl panties and tough it out"!!!


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## rescuepoppy (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't have a problem with uniforms for the class. I am of the opinion that cloths make the person. If you wear a uniform even if it is matching tee  -shirt and pants to class you develop a sense of unity and team work which is what is needed to be of benefit to a patient. Also as has been said I do not want to attend class only to be subjected to underware or the lack thereof or to sit and read other peoples shirts all day. If you make it through the class to work on the street with a company you will be wearing a uniform. So why not show enough pride in yourself and your chosen profession to present yourself in a professional manner while in school.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 16, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> I had to wear similar in school, but, instead of polos, we had the baby blue "first responder" shirts, with patches.  And everything had to be starched and pressed, long hair in high ponytails and off the face, boots polished, to high shine, at least on the toe caps, if not all over.  And, our gigline had to be straight....
> 
> 
> This was for class, lab, and clinicals.



My word! It sounds like basic training! They even inspected your gigline???


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## JPINFV (Feb 16, 2009)

reaper said:


> As stated, I think it teaches people to look professional, for when they hit the work field. I have sent multiple students home from clinicals for bad attire. They show up for ride times looking like slobs. Sorry, you don't get on my truck looking that way. If they wear uniforms everyday, then they are more likely to know how they should look.



I agree with sending people home from clinicals if they aren't dressed appropriately, but should we really have to teach people how to dress in class? Shouldn't dressing professionally be self evident by this time in their life? Should classes also moderate the spoken word and crack down on anyone who uses slang at any time during class as well?


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## rjz (Feb 16, 2009)

My paramedic class didn't wear uniforms, and even though it was a short 5 years ago I don't remember seeing anyone's Whale tail sticking out of the back of their pants. On that note though...I still sttend classes on a pretty regular basis and do find it distracting when I have to smell what you like to wear, stare (or try not to) down your crack, deal with your sweat shirt hood blocking the screen, and have patience while you try to adjust your clothing when it is time practice a skill. 

I imagine that if I had been told to wear a uniform while in medic school I would have thoght it sucked. But the realiaty is that most of the younger crowd has no idea how to dress nicely. Granted there are members of the above mentioned crowd who do know what they are doing, however the majority do not. So what does a school do? they do what is best the the biggest amount of people and put everyone in uniform. 

Wearing them gets you used to being in them, gets you used to being out in public and being aware that all eyes are on you. After all you are in "training" to be trained right? 

I also think that doing PT and other paramelatary stuff is great, gets you used to the life. and keeps you helathy, god knows that we all need it. 

My two cents....


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## phabib (Feb 16, 2009)

No uniform for class. We did have to have name tags at first but that went away about 2 weeks into class.

For clinicals: white polo, name tag, black or blue EMS pants (or good looking yet still durable pants, not slacks) black socks and boots.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 16, 2009)

phabib said:


> No uniform for class. We did have to have name tags at first but that went away about 2 weeks into class.
> 
> For clinicals: white polo, name tag, black or blue EMS pants (or good looking yet still durable pants, not slacks) black socks and boots.



Same here.

About 6 hours into my ER rotation my nose started bleeding all over my nice white shirt. I had to bum one off of one of the ER techs!


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## Epi-do (Feb 16, 2009)

For hospital clinicals, we had maroon scrubs that we wore.  If we were on the ambulance, we were to wear a maroon polo, EMS pants, and black boots/shoes.  During class, we were allowed to wear either one of those uniforms, or business casual.

The thought behind it was that we were attending a class that was located in a professional setting, so we needed to look professional.  (Our classroom was on the same floor as the hospital legal staff.)


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## flhtci01 (Feb 16, 2009)

For class and clinicals, we had our choice of white, blue or gray polos. (heard they went to only gray after our class), dark EMT or dress pants (NO jeans) with dark shoes.   If not in proper attire sent home for the day and '0' for that day's grade.

Our class was at a major teaching hospital.  Besides increasing everyone's professionalism, it also allowed the hospital staff to identify us as students.


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## WarDance (Feb 16, 2009)

Epi-do said:


> The thought behind it was that we were attending a class that was located in a professional setting, so we needed to look professional.  (Our classroom was on the same floor as the hospital legal staff.)



Really?  Our class was at the station.  In the bay.  They just pulled out the ambulances for our class.  Sometimes I swear we were all high from the diesel fumes!


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## Shishkabob (Feb 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> About 6 hours into my ER rotation my nose started bleeding all over my nice white shirt. I had to bum one off of one of the ER techs!




I told you... don't snort before work!


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## tydek07 (Feb 17, 2009)

We *did not* have to wear uniforms to class. It was a very relaxed dress code for class/labs. As for clinicals and ride alongs: Navy blue pants, grey 'Paramedic Student' shirt, black boots/shoes, and name badge. 

Did I like the the dress code we had? Yes 
Would go to a school that had uniforms for classroom? Yes

I can see the whole uniform during class thing. It does make the class look professional and look "like one". It could maybe even bring up the confidence level of the entire class.


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## silver (Feb 17, 2009)

This could be because I will be a student for about 8 more years (if things go right/wrong), but I don't really like uniforms for class. Dress code is fine, my high school required shirt and tie. Clinicals and labs sure require the uniform, but I want to be comfortable when sitting in my chair for 4 hours.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 17, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I told you... don't snort before work!



SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! I told you not to tell anyone!

On the uniform issue:
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a uniform, however, if a uniform is not required, it gives the teaching staff another oppurtunity to see how professionaly the student will act.


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## spisco85 (Feb 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> On the uniform issue:
> Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a uniform, however, if a uniform is not required, it gives the teaching staff another oppurtunity to see how professionaly the student will act.



That is an outstanding point.


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## karaya (Feb 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> ...however, if a uniform is not required, it gives the teaching staff another oppurtunity to see how professionaly the student will act.


 
Yes, but I've seen many medics who wear a uniform and seemingly go out of their way to look unprofessional.  Dirty or faded shirts, untucked, unshaven, wearing ball hats backward, etc.  This could equally give the teacher the opportunity to see just _how professional_ one presents him or herself.


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## BossyCow (Feb 17, 2009)

My schooling was all private school and I wore uniforms for the first 12 years of my education. There's an equalization that happens with everyone wearing the same thing. Another reason that some schools are going to uniforms is because its much easier to say.. "Wear this" than to list all the subjective criteria that will be used to define unoffensive or inappropriate attire. 

The one student that comes to my mind every time the uniform discussion comes up is a girl who was on her third attempt to snag a firefighter husband by taking the volunteer Firefighter 1 class which was taught at a nearby career firestation. She would show up with her overweight form jammed into spandex and lycra, with glittery crop top t-shirts, flip flops, and long acrylic nails. She had enough Perfume and makeup on to classify her as a hazmat site. I don't know what agency under what thought process was continually sponsoring her for the class, but she dropped out eventually.


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## redcrossemt (Feb 17, 2009)

For my basic and intermediate classes, we had no uniform for classes. There was a dress code, but it was loosely enforced at best. Clinical dress was a grey polo with school logo, blue or black uniform pants, black socks, black boots.

My paramedic class required the same uniform for class, lab, and clinical shifts. Navy polo with school logo, dark t-shirt, blue uniform pants, black socks, black boots.

I do think the uniform in class provided a little equalization of students, provided confidence, and lessened distractions. 

I don't have a strong view either way about uniforms in class; but I am big on professional uniform appearances while working or doing clinicals. Boots shined, shirts pressed, any dirt/salt wiped off black pants after each call, etc. It says a lot and enstills trust and respect by patients, first responders, and hospital nurses/docs.


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## el Murpharino (Feb 17, 2009)

Paramedic class being close to a para-military entity is completely overboard.  There is no rank structure or anything even remotely close to the military, except for maybe a uniform combination....and even the wear of that uniform is far removed from the rigidity of military wear of uniform.   

Most paramedic classes are held in a college/classroom setting, where uniform attire doesn't really change much.  What it does do, though, is inspire a level of confidence and pride in the students that can't be found wearing blue jeans and a fire dept. t-shirt that brags that "we walk where the devil dances".  In clinical settings (ambulance and hospital) the uniform is a necessity and should be mandatory.  I don't see a real benefit to wearing a uniform to classroom settings where you're sitting for 4 hours a night taking notes.  If there was a huge concern about offensive t-shirts, long nails, booty shorts, etc.....the instructor could cover all that the first night of class with the "conservative attire only" clause, in addition to making sure nails don't extend past the tips of the fingers (that's what we do in the military...).


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## fortsmithman (Feb 17, 2009)

The way I see it EMS students should wear a uniform.  Because fire recruits and police recruits wear a uniform during their training.  If we want to be considered equal to the other emergency service then we should adopt the wearing of a uniform while in training, it's the professional thing to do.  Also as previously mentioned having a uniform requirement will eliminate the what do I wear to school decision.


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## medic417 (Feb 18, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> The way I see it EMS students should wear a uniform.  Because fire recruits and police recruits wear a uniform during their training.  If we want to be considered equal to the other emergency service then we should adopt the wearing of a uniform while in training, it's the professional thing to do.  Also as previously mentioned having a uniform requirement will eliminate the what do I wear to school decision.



I would say we should wear what doctors and other medical professionals wear during education.  We are a medical profession and should follow their example rather than the example of non medical professions like fire and LE.


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## sarahharter (Feb 18, 2009)

around where i work they do wear a uniform.  it looks professional they are issued one shirt and have to buy everything else but i think its worth it.


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## JPINFV (Feb 18, 2009)

I fear the idea that someone who can't decide what to wear to school will someday be making life or death medical decisions.


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## fortsmithman (Feb 18, 2009)

medic417 said:


> I would say we should wear what doctors and other medical professionals wear during education.  We are a medical profession and should follow their example rather than the example of non medical professions like fire and LE.



We are also a public safety profession.  If we want to be compared to other medical professions then increase the minimum education requirements.
it should go like this
EMTB 6 mos
EMTI 2 yrs
Paramedic 4Yrs
The EMS profession needs to increase the education and to be more selective on who is admitted like it is for medical school.


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## medic417 (Feb 18, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> We are also a public safety profession.  If we want to be compared to other medical professions then increase the minimum education requirements.
> it should go like this
> EMTB 6 mos
> EMTI 2 yrs
> ...



Almost got it.  

No I EMT B 2 years.  

We are medical.  So lets learn medicine people.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 18, 2009)

karaya said:


> Yes, but I've seen many medics who wear a uniform and seemingly go out of their way to look unprofessional.  Dirty or faded shirts, untucked, unshaven, wearing ball hats backward, etc.  This could equally give the teacher the opportunity to see just _how professional_ one presents him or herself.



Do I know who you are talking about?................................


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 18, 2009)

BossyCow said:


> The one student that comes to my mind every time the uniform discussion comes up is a girl who was on her third attempt to snag a firefighter husband by taking the volunteer Firefighter 1 class which was taught at a nearby career firestation. She would show up with her overweight form jammed into spandex and lycra, with glittery crop top t-shirts, flip flops, and long acrylic nails. She had enough Perfume and makeup on to classify her as a hazmat site. I don't know what agency under what thought process was continually sponsoring her for the class, but she dropped out eventually.



_That_ would almost be enough to make _me_ drop out. 

lol, love the "HAZMAT site" thing!!!


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## karaya (Feb 18, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Do I know who you are talking about?................................


 
I dunno, you tell me!


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 19, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> The way I see it EMS students should wear a uniform.  Because fire recruits and police recruits wear a uniform during their training.  If we want to be considered equal to the other emergency service then we should adopt the wearing of a uniform while in training, it's the professional thing to do.


I disagree on all counts.  As a profession, we are not fire or police recruits.  And I have no desire to be considered "equal" to those persons.  I am a medical professional, and I consider myself and my profession well above those other jobs.  Why should we lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator?  As already mentioned, no other medical profession wears uniforms to class.  Why should we do something different?  What does it add to the equation that is positive for the profession?  You really need to give me something more profound than the old, _"Well, everyone else does it!"_  Especially when everyone else is not doing it.

Daily uniform wear in the classroom is a BAD idea on several different levels.

First and foremost, it identifies every nimrod in your class as a future medic and member of your program.  So when they are outside smoking and throwing their butts down on the ground, playing grabass with the other students, being loud and obnoxious, telling off-color stories or jokes, leaving the bathroom without washing their hands, driving like a maniac in the parking lot, or any number of other embarrassing behaviors, that is a black mark against the entire class and the entire program.  I didn't watch the video posted, but there are plenty of embarrassing videos from the RCC program to be found.  And their instructors get tired of having to defend them.

Second, putting on that uniform should be instilled in students as something done on special occasions, with special purpose, and with a sense of pride.  It should not become a daily routine to be taken for granted.  If it becomes just another unreasonable requirement that you are being forced to do (as it has in Sasha's case), then the students lose respect for what the uniform represents.  Instead of it being something they take pride in, and take care to wear correctly, it becomes nothing more than another item from their closet.  This totally defeats the purpose of the so-called "para-military" approach.

And, of course, it wears out the uniform too quickly.  By the end of the course, the dark blue pants have become light gray.  The white shirts are also a dingy light gray, with chili stains and cigarette burns in them.  That really helps our image, doesn't it?  Keep them in the closet until it is time to face the public, and they stay in good condition.

Then there is the whole issue of what you were doing before you came to class.  This isn't high school.  This isn't the military.  This is adult education.  Working adults often must come to class from work.  There is no reasonable accommodation for them to change into a uniform at the school.  And why should they have to change from a suit and tie into BDUs and a denim "job shirt" just to sit in a lecture hall?  It's absurd.

There is some valid theory to the "para-military" approach to education.  However, EMS is not an appropriate place for that theory.  And most any school that places a heavy emphasis on such theory is strongly suspect of not knowing enough about adult education to be teaching anything, much less medicine.


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## flhtci01 (Feb 19, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> First and foremost, it identifies every nimrod in your class as a future medic and member of your program.  So when they are outside smoking and throwing their butts down on the ground, playing grabass with the other students, being loud and obnoxious, telling off-color stories or jokes, leaving the bathroom without washing their hands, driving like a maniac in the parking lot, or any number of other embarrassing behaviors, that is a black mark against the entire class and the entire program.  I didn't watch the video posted, but there are plenty of embarrassing videos from the RCC program to be found.  And their instructors get tired of having to defend them.



My experience is different.

Our instructors did not tolerate any of the above actions.  In our environment(a major university teaching hospital), these actions would be promptly reported to our instructors and be grounds for dismissal. The staff knew our uniform as we were part of the emergency medicine department.  

In street clothes, we could have been considered just another Joe Schmo or college student in the hospital for any reason and doing the above actions.


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 19, 2009)

Wearing a uniform doesn't stop people from misbehaving.  It simply makes them identifiable when they do.

Considering that there is ZERO benefit to wearing the uniform to class everyday, why would you want to risk the down side?  The benefit to risk ratio speaks for itself.  It's stupid.  If that level of anal effort were devoted to education, they might turn out some better prepared medics.


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## el Murpharino (Feb 19, 2009)

If they are easily identifiable, then they should easily held accountable for inappropriate behavior...


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 19, 2009)

Absolutely.  But why make them easily identifiable in the first place?  Nobody yet has explained what possible benefit there could be to this that is applicable to adult, medical education.


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## Combilation (Feb 20, 2009)

In my school we are required to wear:
-Blue Polo
-Black Pants
-Black Boots
-Black Socks

I absolutley hate the fact that we have to be in uniform. The need for a uniform shows no need. I understand the need when we are doing ride times. We also come in with clean shaves and tattoos must be covered up among with removal of piercings. The only plus is we dont have to bring our stethescope, pen lights or shears during non lab days.


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## yanagster (Feb 20, 2009)

At my school we are required to wear:
Grey polo w/ school embroidery and a nametag
Navy Blue Pants; EMT pants or ****ies style work pants
Black Socks
Black Boots/work shoes

we are also required to have a stethoscope and safety glasses.

I do not hate the fact that a uniform must be worn at all times; lecture, labs, clinicals, ride-a-longs. It actually gives me a sense of purpose and makes me more devoted to learning the material (even though some times I get lazy studying). When I walk into places I get looked at and treated with a little more respect than when I am in a t-shirt and blue jeans. 

I just hate the fact that the polos are an ugly gray color (I look like a goomba with mine on). If they changed it to a navy blue t-shirt that said student EMT with my school name I would be a happier man, but alas I can't whine about something so insignificant. And as a point was brought up in an earlier reply, it does help at the buttcrack of dawn that you dont have to scurry around looking for clean non-wrinkled clothes to wear that probably have dog hair all over them!


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## Sasha (Feb 20, 2009)

> it does help at the buttcrack of dawn that you dont have to scurry around looking for clean non-wrinkled clothes to wear that probably have dog hair all over them!



Hmmm. Have you tried maybe hanging clothes up in your closet? Might eliminate that problem. Or go to night school and eliminate the "butt crack of dawn" thing.


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## sir.shocksalot (Feb 20, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Hmmm. Have you tried maybe hanging clothes up in your closet? Might eliminate that problem. Or go to night school and eliminate the "butt crack of dawn" thing.


You can hang clothes up in the closet? I thought they belonged on the floor.


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## karaya (Feb 20, 2009)

sir.shocksalot said:


> You can hang clothes up in the closet? I thought they belonged on the floor.


 
That sure is where I find my underwear.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 20, 2009)

karaya said:


> I dunno, you tell me!



Probably not. I'm in WA state. But I sure know some people _like_ that.


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## BossyCow (Feb 20, 2009)

karaya said:


> That sure is where I find my underwear.



Just make sure it's your own!


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## fortsmithman (Feb 20, 2009)

then again what type of uniform is to be worn tradtional EMS/fire/police type uniform or surgical scrubs or pants and a dress shirt.


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## TransportJockey (Feb 21, 2009)

sir.shocksalot said:


> You can hang clothes up in the closet? I thought they belonged on the floor.



It's the biggest shelf in the house for a reason!


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## medic417 (Feb 21, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> then again what type of uniform is to be worn tradtional EMS/fire/police type uniform or surgical scrubs or pants and a dress shirt.



Lets see we are Medical so what do medical students wear?


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 21, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> then again what type of uniform is to be worn tradtional EMS/fire/police type uniform or surgical scrubs or pants and a dress shirt.


That's a question that still has to be answered.  Right now, few people have the imagination to even address the question.  A great many want to dress up like the cops and firemen because that's what they really wanted to be in the first place, if they weren't too fat or stupid to do so.  So instead, they just play dress up as an EMT.

Traditional?  EMS "tradition" is less than four decades old in the U.S., and younger in Canada.  Before that, it was a mix of funeral homes and hospitals providing the service where privates did not yet exist.  Each wore something different, from solid white to shirt and tie to mechanic's coveralls.  What you did not see in "tradition" was ambulance drivers attempting to look like cops and firemen.

So what is our tradition?  Heck, our real "tradition" goes back to the military.  Shouldn't we be wearing camouflage if tradition is so important?  This is the problem.  We have no clear-cut tradition.  Our roots are deep and wide, touching on many more aspects of society than just public safety.  Public safety was only the latest group to involve themselves in EMS, not our "tradition".

Two important questions come immediately to mind:

1. What is our job?  What are we here to do?

2. Is it necessary to look like someone that we are not?

The answers to both questions are equally obvious.  Our job is the provision of medical care.  Period.  End of story.  And no, it is not necessary that we dress ourselves up to look like someone else.  The world has not run out of ideas for ways to dress. We can establish our own unique identity without having to steal a look from public safety.  The only thing we have in common with public safety is sirens (four of them, if you're in Mt. Horeb, WI).  That is not enough to mandate that we dress like them.  When it comes right down to it, we've got more in common with airline pilots than cops and firemen.  That group also enjoys a lot more respect from the public than does public safety.  If we're going to steal a look from someone, I'd rather go there than with public safety.

But the fact remains, we don't have to steal anyone else's look.  And so long as we continue to do so, we will continue to be stuck without a unique identity, and the professional advancement that such an identity brings.


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## medic417 (Feb 21, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> But the fact remains, we don't have to steal anyone else's look.  And so long as we continue to do so, we will continue to be stuck without a unique identity, and the professional advancement that such an identity brings.



Good point.  I shall start a new topic so as not to hijack this one.


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