# Signs and Symptoms



## compora19 (Aug 19, 2009)

I was just wondering if anyone had a quick sheet put together for signs and symptoms? Thanks in advance


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## Shishkabob (Aug 19, 2009)

For what condition?


Anyways, signs and symptoms of many things can mimic sings and symptoms of many other things.


AMS can be hypoglycemia, head trauma, stroke, drugs, etc etc etc


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## compora19 (Aug 19, 2009)

yeah i meant like all conditions in the book lol, it is by far my weakest spot and i take NR soon.


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## HotelCo (Aug 19, 2009)

compora19 said:


> yeah i meant like all conditions in the book lol, it is by far my weakest spot and i take NR soon.



You want all the signs and symptoms for all conditions?

If so, you need to go back and re-read your book.


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2009)

If you're weak on anatomy and physiology, pick up a review book and work on your A/P. Signs and symptoms happen for a reason, and A/P is that reason.


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## medic417 (Aug 19, 2009)

Sounds as if you need to request a refund from your school.


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## daedalus (Aug 19, 2009)

I got a great little sheet you can use. Google Harrisons Principals of Internal Medicine. It will fit in a backpack.


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## compora19 (Aug 19, 2009)

haha no its not that bad...im just going to go through and make notecards of them all, i was hoping someone would have had them typed up or something so i could just print them off and copy them.

Daedalus - thanks i will check it out


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## medic417 (Aug 19, 2009)

If you don't make the effort you will not be able to recall.  The more effort put in the more you get out of it.


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## Shishkabob (Aug 19, 2009)

compora, you truly can't "make notecards" for S&S that easily.


If I said HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30, and unconsciousness, what would pop in your head?


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2009)

...that the patient has seen better days...


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## GoingLoud (Aug 19, 2009)

compensated shock? but thats just what i think.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Aug 19, 2009)

Linuss said:


> If I said HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30, and unconsciousness, what would pop in your head?



"Oh, crap, someone call a Paramedic... I'm just a lowly EMT..."    j/k


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## ResTech (Aug 19, 2009)

What I do is make "pathophysiology cards" on the large size index cards.... kinda like you do when you make drug cards. 

I summerized the pathophysiology for common conditions, list signs and symptoms, and treatment. It works well for review... it really does.


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## daedalus (Aug 20, 2009)

compora19 said:


> haha no its not that bad...im just going to go through and make notecards of them all, i was hoping someone would have had them typed up or something so i could just print them off and copy them.
> 
> Daedalus - thanks i will check it out



It was a joke, hunny. That book is bigger than two dictionaries on top of each other, although it is the gold standard text for medicine and you will find just about every adult disease in there. It is a great book to have at home to reference.

There is no such thing as cards for common signs and symptoms. Abdominal pain is a symptom of about 700 + ailments. You just have to know A&P and pathology. Understanding is far superior to memorizing.


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## ResTech (Aug 20, 2009)

The pathophysiology cards are very helpful. There is enough entry level modality and didactic material to learn and conquer without worrying about the 700+ possible causes of abd pain. Once you pass National Registry, then worry about expanding. 

In the field, good look diagnosing someones abd pain. Unless its one of a select few problems (AAA, ectopic, or internal bleed) your not gonna know for sure what the etiology is nor does it really matter. They're having abd pain... if they are shocky treat the shock. Other than that, nothing specific your gonna do... its all supportive care.


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## compora19 (Aug 20, 2009)

thanks for all the help everyone, the reason i was so concerned is a few people said to make sure you know your signs and symptoms...but really, who can remember every single sign and symptom to every single disease or illness in the book? I think im pretty prepared for this test, i took the pretest on emtb.com and got an 85%. I also bought the JBlearning.com EMT-B test prep and have done about 600 questions off of there, my test is wednesday so if anyone has any last minute advice that would be excellent


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## medicdan (Aug 20, 2009)

compora19 said:


> but really, who can remember every single sign and symptom to every single disease or illness in the book?




Ahhh... you? There is a reason they mention all of them... they are important. THe class you just finished is a much shortened version of the essentials of basic prehospital medicine. The reason they mention and discuss all of the s/s is because they are important. If you are having trouble remembering them, come up with an association for it (Chest pain="like an elephant sitting on my chest"=pain/pressure/tightness, so think of an elephant). Talk through it with a classmate, learn them together.


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## HotelCo (Aug 20, 2009)

Linuss said:


> compora, you truly can't "make notecards" for S&S that easily.
> 
> 
> If I said HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30, and unconsciousness, what would pop in your head?



Probably something like "Which hospital has the best EMS room?"


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## compora19 (Aug 27, 2009)

i passed! It stopped me after I took the 70th question


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## juxtin1987 (Nov 2, 2009)

Linuss said:


> compora, you truly can't "make notecards" for S&S that easily.
> 
> 
> If I said HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30, and unconsciousness, what would pop in your head?



I would say, don't wake the baby!!! He's fine!!!


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## kalorrah (Jul 21, 2014)

*S/s*

I just read your post as I am taking my NR in 3 weeks - I look for ways to remember the S/S too - rereading the textbook does help just there's so many things that are like other things! glad you passed -this is an old thread, but I just saw it


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## Emergency Metaphysics (Jul 21, 2014)

JPINFV said:


> If you're weak on anatomy and physiology, pick up a review book and work on your A/P. Signs and symptoms happen for a reason, and A/P is that reason.



I concur with this. The anatomy/physiology course I took has been invaluable in studies as I prepare for the EMT-Basic and eventually the paramedic coursework. For example, two of the initial chapters (and pieces of later chapters) are mostly review of the anatomy/physiology work I did as an undergrad. Khanacademy.com might help with some of this review.

I don't know how in the world there could be a catch-all cheat sheet or flow chart to navigate the symptom combinations. Like other posters have said, commonsense says that there are too many mimics and symptom combinations that could be assigned to a variety of illnesses.


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## joshrunkle35 (Jul 21, 2014)

First and most important step is to learn the common vital signs. What numbers are normal? So, things like: a heart rate of 120 is usually abnormal for an adult, but not necessarily for a toddler. 

You need to know normal values down cold. 

After that, you need to understand that a single value being abnormal is simply abnormal, not necessarily critical (with the obvious exceptions of the extreme). 

Then you learn what simultaneous abnormal values are.


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## Sally21 (Aug 4, 2014)

I need one of those in my life. I would write out a bunch of disorders and their signs and symptoms and reasons why then realized i added unimportant stuff( things not on the test) and left out important things( things that were on the test) so i have to go back and start all over. Im backed up about 5 or 6 chapters trying to re write them all along with the new ones from the chapters we are on now. Which is almost impossible. I'll spend literally a whole day on one chapter
Then the next day I have class which adds two more chapters. I get one chapter down and have to pick two more up! Ugh. Has to be a better way.


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## Sally21 (Oct 15, 2014)

http://quizlet.com/24812779/emt-signs-and-symptoms-flash-cards/

http://quizlet.com/12778974/emt-important-signs-and-symptoms-flash-cards/


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## ChrisCon89 (Dec 9, 2016)

Linuss said:


> HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30,


How do I break down this type of S&S ?


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## Aprz (Dec 10, 2016)

I don't believe Linuss, or a lot of people who posted in this thread, are still here. This is thread is seven years old. Isn't the average time someone in EMS like five years? LOL.

I don't understand what you are asking for. In what way can we help you?


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## ChrisCon89 (Dec 10, 2016)

lol i hear you. when i took the NR the question would be like ,you arrive to a patient home , his wife  says they woke up and didn't feel well
he is  HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30, and unconsciousness. bluh bluh bluh ?

A
B
C
D


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## ChrisCon89 (Dec 10, 2016)

trying to figure out what signs and symptoms i should study prior to taking this test


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## gotbeerz001 (Dec 10, 2016)

ChrisCon89 said:


> trying to figure out what signs and symptoms i should study prior to taking this test



You should know what normal ranges for vital signs are and what injuries/illness would cause abnormal vital signs. In short, can you recognize when a call is more than you are trained to handle and can you prioritize those things you CAN do until you reach a hospitaL or ALS intercept. 

Also, understand Cushing's triad. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NomadicMedic (Dec 10, 2016)

Lots of good people commented in this thread. What a flashback.


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## Shishkabob (Dec 21, 2016)

Aprz said:


> I don't believe Linuss, or a lot of people who posted in this thread, are still here. This is thread is seven years old. Isn't the average time someone in EMS like five years? LOL.



I'm still alive and active in EMS!  Just rarely if ever come to this message board.


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## Bitty (Nov 20, 2017)

compora19 said:


> i passed! It stopped me after I took the 70th question



I know exactly what you were talking about. Theres always that one or 2 symptoms that can make a difference in knowing the right problem. What did you end up doing or making to help you pass?


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## Colt45 (Nov 20, 2017)

Bitty said:


> I know exactly what you were talking about. Theres always that one or 2 symptoms that can make a difference in knowing the right problem. What did you end up doing or making to help you pass?



This person hasn't been active in like 6 years so I doubt you will get a reply. I would focus on understanding the material. Not just reading through a few paragraphs and hoping you can recall it when the test comes. Take practice tests. Invest the money into testing materials like JBL  or medictests. I really like those two. Use apps  on your phone like anki. It is a flashcard application that focuses on retention.


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## iExposeDeformities (Nov 20, 2017)

Linuss said:


> compora, you truly can't "make notecards" for S&S that easily.
> 
> 
> If I said HR 130, BP 160/80, RR of 30, and unconsciousness, what would pop in your head?


Hmm 30 resp eh? Probably shallow ones and needs to be bagged. I was about to say pt is going into shock but I saw that bp. Compensated shock?


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## Colt45 (Nov 20, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> Hmm 30 resp eh? Probably shallow ones and needs to be bagged. I was about to say pt is going into shock but I saw that bp. Compensated shock?



Sure his vital signs would say he's compensating for something but he's unconscious So tell us what your plan is. How are you going to further investigate the reasons why with the information you've got?


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## VentMonkey (Nov 20, 2017)

I’ll keep the necro-bumping alive:


iExposeDeformities said:


> *Hmm 30 resp eh? Probably shallow ones and needs to be bagged*. I was about to say pt is going into shock but I saw that bp. Compensated shock?


Why do you think so? 

What if you are on to something with regards to compensation, and this is some sort of respiratory alkalosis from a number of underlying causes? 

Assuming they have an adequate SPO2 with passive supplemental oxygen would you still want to assist their respiratory efforts? Why, or why not?


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## iExposeDeformities (Nov 22, 2017)

Colt45 said:


> Sure his vital signs would say he's compensating for something but he's unconscious So tell us what your plan is. How are you going to further investigate the reasons why with the information you've got?


Reasons why as in why his vitals are this way? If that’s what you’re asking, EMS is not for diagnosing patients. You stabilize them until they can get advanced treatment in a hospital.


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## iExposeDeformities (Nov 22, 2017)

VentMonkey said:


> I’ll keep the necro-bumping alive:
> 
> Why do you think so?
> 
> ...


OP didn’t say if pt is unconscious because of bodily trauma or not. But if it wasn’t, pt is most likely unconscious due to hypoperfusion. 30 resps is on the high side which will most likely produce shallow respiration’s but not all the time and combine that with unconsciousness? You bet I’m OPA and bag. But like you said, if they’re satting >95 on O2 then that’s that


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 22, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> Reasons why as in why his vitals are this way? If that’s what you’re asking, EMS is not for diagnosing patients. You stabilize them until they can get advanced treatment in a hospital.



This is why we cant have nice things.


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## VentMonkey (Nov 22, 2017)

@iExposeDeformities so a few things. Again, this thread is mega old so we’re not getting anything else but our own spin and speculations at this point.


iExposeDeformities said:


> If that’s what you’re asking, EMS is not for diagnosing patients.


This line of thought is outdated at best. At worst, it limits the field provider to a small box within their critical thinking abilities to rule in, or out (yes, limited diagnosing) a handful of therapies that may need to be provided from basic to advanced life support measures within their respective scopes.

In essence your train of thought unfortunately defines the classic “cookie-cutter” mentality. Try broadening your horizons.


iExposeDeformities said:


> 30 resps is on the high side which will most likely produce shallow respiration’s but not all the time and combine that with unconsciousness? You bet I’m OPA and bag. But like you said, if they’re satting >95 on O2 then that’s that


Lastly, and to further illustrate both your point, and mine—what if by assisting their ventilations you’re doing more harm than good?

Compensatory means just that: they’re compensating (if in fact they are here) for something, e.g., ASA OD or DKA/ HHNK. It’s also why a broad brush to paint with is better than a narrow one to most clinicians. These subgroups you may actually not want to assist.

Hopefully this makes more sense, and you can begin to see why field diagnosis—whether we call it that yet, or not—plays an important role in prehospital medicine. 

Afterall, being a part of medicine means endless evolutionary changes. Some are good, some are bad, and some bring us right back to where we started.


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## iExposeDeformities (Nov 22, 2017)

NomadicMedic said:


> This is why we cant have nice things.


No the reason why we can’t have nice things is because of capitalism


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## luke_31 (Nov 22, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> No the reason why we can’t have nice things is because of capitalism


I don't know about that. Lots of companies provide power stretchers and auto load systems, those are very expensive.  Why do that when a non powered stretcher can do the job.  Where I work we carry iStats, coolers for saline, Lifepak 15s, Phillips portable monitors, electronic thermometers for getting rectal temps, Stryker power stretchers with the auto load system, and a portable pulse ox.  That is for each truck and we have eight trucks, now we only have five phillips portable monitors, but we are looking to acquire three more to outfit all the trucks in the future. Why would we carry all that when it adds to the cost of running the ambulance?


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## VFlutter (Nov 22, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> No the reason why we can’t have nice things is because of capitalism



 Whatever you say Comrade


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## StCEMT (Nov 22, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> Reasons why as in why his vitals are this way? If that’s what you’re asking, EMS is not for diagnosing patients. You stabilize them until they can get advanced treatment in a hospital.


I'll remember I can't diagnose next time I see a huge STEMI, clear signs of a stroke, definite symptoms of DKA, a needle in someone's arm, fairly progressed sepsis, or any number of things I see on a regular basis. Then I will pass it along to the doc that I can't diagnose and that I need their help with words.


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## joshrunkle35 (Nov 23, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> OP didn’t say if pt is unconscious because of bodily trauma or not. But if it wasn’t, pt is most likely unconscious due to hypoperfusion. 30 resps is on the high side which will most likely produce shallow respiration’s but not all the time and combine that with unconsciousness? You bet I’m OPA and bag. But like you said, if they’re satting >95 on O2 then that’s that



And, if the cause is Carbon Monoxide Poisoning?


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## joshrunkle35 (Nov 23, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> No the reason why we can’t have nice things is because of capitalism



Ah, yes...the idea that having 10% of services unavailable to the entire population is morally superior than forcing 10% of the population into crippling debt after they receive whatever immediate care they need.


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## Colt45 (Nov 23, 2017)

iExposeDeformities said:


> Reasons why as in why his vitals are this way? If that’s what you’re asking, EMS is not for diagnosing patients. You stabilize them until they can get advanced treatment in a hospital.



This literally made me cringe. Differential diagnosis for advanced level prehospital providers is a major part of our job. To sit and stick with the mindset that we are only a transportation service and shouldn't be using our knowledge to rule in or out possible diagnosis for critical patients is the reason why our profession doesn't get the respect that we all want. Mostly these comments come from basic level providers who have yet to learn to actually understand the diseases and their processes. They just see "sick". It makes those of us who actually care to be more than a beanpole provider irritated.


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