# Police Officer Shoots Fire Chief



## WuLabsWuTecH (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm bck at school now, so little time for EMTLife, but I saw this and was reminded of you guys!



> JERICHO, Ark. – It was just too much, having to return to court twice on the same day to contest yet another traffic ticket, and Fire Chief Don Payne didn't hesitate to tell the judge what he thought of the police and their speed traps.
> 
> The response from cops? They shot him. Right there in court.



Credit to JON GAMBRELL, Associated Press Writer

Full Article Here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2ZpcmVjaGllZnNobw--


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## firecoins (Sep 3, 2009)

wow!  This should be much bigger news.  No investigation into how the cops shot an unarmed man and another officer?


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## Aidey (Sep 3, 2009)

This sounds like quite the political cluster. 7 officers for a town of under 200 people? Unless it is a major, major thoroughfare that seems a bit excessive.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 3, 2009)

Soooooo.. what does this have to do with EMS?  Aside from a GSW?





I'm calling it right now:  This is going to turn in to a cop bashing thread.


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## LucidResq (Sep 3, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Soooooo.. what does this have to do with EMS?  Aside from a GSW?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wah. If you look at the history of threads posted in the News category on here about someone doing something criminal or wrong, the vast majority are about our fellow EMS workers, not cops. 

It's simply a shocking incident, and I don't think anyone here is close-minded enough to extrapolate this to ALL cops and attempt to "bash cops".


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## fortsmithman (Sep 3, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Soooooo.. what does this have to do with EMS?  Aside from a GSW?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope it doesn't turn into that.  After reading the article I'm wondering why they have a municipal police dept.  In the article it stated that the town's last business closed its doors.  With no business's and few people in the town where is the tax base to support a police dept.  Why does not the town permanently disband the force and have the county sheriff absorb the seven members into the sheriff's office.


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## EMS49393 (Sep 3, 2009)

I hope it doesn't become a cop bashing thread either mainly because it doesn't appear to be a police only issue.  After careful consideration of the article, it looks like something is stinky in Jericho, AR, right down to the mayor.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 3, 2009)

LucidResq said:


> It's simply a shocking incident, and I don't think anyone here is close-minded enough to extrapolate this to ALL cops and attempt to "bash cops".



Oh no doubt if it was SIMPLY as the news report said, it would be shocking, but like every thing else, we need to wait till more details come out to make any sort of judgment.  

I'd like to think most cops don't go around shooting people who fight tickets, but I'm just strange like that.




And you give some people WAY too much credit on being open-minded.


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## daedalus (Sep 3, 2009)

This city police department does not represent the police profession at large, and the local sheriff is investigating the department for corruption. It is hardly police bashing to call this an inappropriate use of a gun. 

This has nothing to do with police, but everything to do with stupid, stupid people.


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## subliminal1284 (Sep 4, 2009)

Hope that cop is charged with assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder.


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## rescue99 (Sep 4, 2009)

daedalus said:


> This city police department does not represent the police profession at large, and the local sheriff is investigating the department for corruption. It is hardly police bashing to call this an inappropriate use of a gun.
> 
> This has nothing to do with police, but everything to do with stupid, stupid people.



If it weren't so pathetic, it would make a great episode on Dukes of Hazard.


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## GeekMedic (Sep 4, 2009)

*Local report of story*

Here's a more local source for that story, 

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/new...ators-Considering/5yD4SQlZGkWQ2ag4n14QZQ.cspx


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## EMSLaw (Sep 4, 2009)

If the town isn't bankrupt already, I'm sure the lawsuit that will inevitably follow will make it so.  

Regarding the seven officers on the force, the mayor is quoted in the article GeekMedic cited - she claims the officers are working for free because they need to keep their certifications current.  

Remind me not to ever drive through that town.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 4, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> If the town isn't bankrupt already, I'm sure the lawsuit that will inevitably follow will make it so.
> 
> Regarding the seven officers on the force, the mayor is quoted in the article GeekMedic cited - she claims the officers are working for free because they need to keep their certifications current.
> 
> Remind me not to ever drive through that town.


Even though those officers may have been working "for free", that still does not relieve the city from their obligations to pay workman's comp or be liable for their employee's actions... the fact that all the people involved happen to be city employees just might make things all the more interesting...

Whether or not this ends up being a legally "bad shoot" depends upon the circumstances. Furthermore,depending upon specific circumstances, the police may have some civil immunity to lawsuit...

This one is going to be very ugly for that place...


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## Shishkabob (Sep 4, 2009)

More ugly than living in a town with less than 200 people?  Gah, I have that many live in my secluded gated community!  :wacko:  

I couldn't imagine living in a town like that.


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## HotelCo (Sep 4, 2009)

Linuss said:


> More ugly than living in a town with less than 200 people?  Gah, I have that many live in my secluded gated community!  :wacko:
> 
> I couldn't imagine living in a town like that.



*whistles the Andy Griffith Show theme*


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## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 4, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> *whistles the Andy Griffith Show theme*



LOL... just before you posted that, the theme to "Deliverance" started playing in my head...  :unsure:


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## fortsmithman (Sep 4, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> If the town isn't bankrupt already, I'm sure the lawsuit that will inevitably follow will make it so.
> 
> Regarding the seven officers on the force, the mayor is quoted in the article GeekMedic cited - she claims the officers are working for free because they need to keep their certifications current.
> 
> Remind me not to ever drive through that town.


It would almost funny if the EMS serving that town is paid while their PD is volly.


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## EMSLaw (Sep 4, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> Even though those officers may have been working "for free", that still does not relieve the city from their obligations to pay workman's comp or be liable for their employee's actions... the fact that all the people involved happen to be city employees just might make things all the more interesting...
> 
> Whether or not this ends up being a legally "bad shoot" depends upon the circumstances. Furthermore,depending upon specific circumstances, the police may have some civil immunity to lawsuit...
> 
> This one is going to be very ugly for that place...



I was assuming, which is always a mistake, that the fire chief was unarmed.  I mean, it's a courtroom, right?  Generally, you aren't allowed to go into one packing.  

I do civil rights law for a living.  It's very hard to explain why your police officers had a justifiable need to shoot an unarmed man in what is probably a fairly well-lit, public location filled with innocent bystanders.  Besides, if he had been armed, the headline would have been something like, "Rogue Fire Chief Shot While Assaulting Judge."

I agree in principle, though, that without knowing what happened, it's hard to figure out liability.  That's separate and apart from the basic fact that somebody *is* getting sued.  Whether the suit would be successful is another matter.


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## EMS49393 (Sep 4, 2009)

There is a Lifeline ambulance in Marion, AR which is about 6 miles from Jericho.  Jericho is also considered part of the Memphis metro area.  Memphis, TN and West Memphis, AR have numerous private ambulance services that run 911 as well.  

The EMS could very well be paid.  Oh, the irony.  Unfortunately, I have no idea how to find that out since I doubt they have internet in that part of the third world.

I lived in Arkansas for two years, and it was the most back-woods place you could ever dream up.  They're the only state in the country that doesn't even have a trauma system.  It's a sad, sad place.


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## EMSLaw (Sep 4, 2009)

EMS49393 said:


> I lived in Arkansas for two years, and it was the most back-woods place you could ever dream up.  They're the only state in the country that doesn't even have a trauma system.  It's a sad, sad place.



It's almost enough to make me feel better about Jersey! 

So, emmm...  what do they do if there's a serious trauma?  Call in a bird and transport out of state?  Or do they even have that option?


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## Akulahawk (Sep 4, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> I was assuming, which is always a mistake, that the fire chief was unarmed.  I mean, it's a courtroom, right?  Generally, you aren't allowed to go into one packing.
> 
> I do civil rights law for a living.  It's very hard to explain why your police officers had a justifiable need to shoot an unarmed man in what is probably a fairly well-lit, public location filled with innocent bystanders.  Besides, if he had been armed, the headline would have been something like, "Rogue Fire Chief Shot While Assaulting Judge."
> 
> I agree in principle, though, that without knowing what happened, it's hard to figure out liability.  That's separate and apart from the basic fact that somebody *is* getting sued.  Whether the suit would be successful is another matter.


Most firefighters are unarmed... however, that does not mean that that they can't be... Arson investigators are generally considered Law Enforcement and can be armed. In California, they can go through Basic POST or through a Special Investigator Basic Course. Fire Chiefs, if they go through the appropriate training, can also be considered LEO as well, especially they're required to enforce certain laws as well, outside of Arson.

Also, don't assume that an unarmed person is incapable of posing a lethal/great bodily injury threat to another person... However, it certainly "looks" bad when you shoot someone who is unarmed.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 4, 2009)

Agreed with Akula



And as I said before:

I'd like to think most cops won't shoot someone who's fighting a ticket in court.  There is MUCH more to the story than any of us know.


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## EMS49393 (Sep 5, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> It's almost enough to make me feel better about Jersey!
> 
> So, emmm...  what do they do if there's a serious trauma?  Call in a bird and transport out of state?  Or do they even have that option?



There are a couple hospitals in Little Rock that have some trauma services.  The major problem in Little Rock is the rotating neuro closures.  It's hard to find an ER that has neuro head and spine services, and since a good number of major traumas often involve one or both, you're pretty much hosed.

They can and do fly out of state.  In the northern part of the state they fly to St. John's in Springfield, MO.  In the northeastern part they fly to Memphis, TN.  In the West, they go to Oklahoma.  If you're in the central or south part of the state, you're screwed.

They just passed a 56 cent tax on cigarettes last year to fund their trauma system.  So far it's slow getting out of the gate.  Not only that, but only 30 cents or so is actually staying in Arkansas.  The state has agreed to pay St. John's and Memphis a cut of money because of all the business they handle for Arkansas.

There are much worse places in the world then Jersey.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 5, 2009)

They said in the article that he was at The Med, which is in Memphis, Tennessee. (I saw it on Trauma once )


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