# Volunteer Paramedic?



## dixie_flatline (Jan 5, 2011)

I realize this is a pretty subjective thing and everyone's circumstances are different, but I thought I'd get a sampling of the folks on this board.  Is anyone out there a volunteer paramedic?

I thoroughly enjoy EMS, but I have no intention of making any kind of career out of it - I have a good job in computer/network security, and that's where I plan on staying for the foreseeable future.  I do EMS because I was (am) an Eagle Scout and I've always liked giving back to my community. Generally speaking, if I start doing or learning something, I take it as far as I can. I always feel like there is more that I could learn to help out, but realistically speaking we are so close to hospitals here that I doubt running as ALS would allow me to save significantly more pts than a Basic could (based on the number and types of calls we get - obviously there are plenty of cases where ALS is critical, we just don't see them that much).

Does it really make sense for a volunteer to put in the time to become a medic?  Since I work 50-55 hours a week and am out of town on work for a week at a time roughly bi-monthly, it can be hard to balance a courseload and actually find time to precept.  Plus, I'm considering going to Hopkins for a Masters (but the paramedic education _would_ be free... Hopkins is like the opposite of free).

Anyways, just wondered if there were any volunteer paramedics lurking around (especially ones that aren't looking for employment as a medic), and everyone's general thoughts on the issue.


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## rescue99 (Jan 5, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> I realize this is a pretty subjective thing and everyone's circumstances are different, but I thought I'd get a sampling of the folks on this board.  Is anyone out there a volunteer paramedic?
> 
> I thoroughly enjoy EMS, but I have no intention of making any kind of career out of it - I have a good job in computer/network security, and that's where I plan on staying for the foreseeable future.  I do EMS because I was (am) an Eagle Scout and I've always liked giving back to my community. Generally speaking, if I start doing or learning something, I take it as far as I can. I always feel like there is more that I could learn to help out, but realistically speaking we are so close to hospitals here that I doubt running as ALS would allow me to save significantly more pts than a Basic could (based on the number and types of calls we get - obviously there are plenty of cases where ALS is critical, we just don't see them that much).
> 
> ...



How people go about giving of themselves is a subjective thing, you're right. Wanting to take it as far as a Medic education is pretty dedicated...Good for you! Masters, Medic; you and only you can decide which will bring more satisfaction to your life.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 5, 2011)

I think it depends on where you are in the country. Here in Western Washington, anyone who brings up the idea of a volunteer medic is looked at like a two headed monster, but back on the East Coast, where I'm from, there are plenty of volunteer paramedics, as well as intermediates and basics. The amount of time one would have to commit as a volunteer to go through medic school is prohibitive in most cases, but there are many like the OP who have good jobs and want to simply give back to the community. 

I have a friend in West Virginia who has been a volunteer paramedic for almost 10 years. She has a job where she can telecommute and make her own hours. It's the perfect situation. She's able to respond almost anytime she's needed, the small town she lives in has ALS service, she feels good when she gives back to her community and she still makes a decent living and can provide for her family. 

Do I think volunteer ALS is a good idea? If it's the ONLY way a small community can provide paramedic service, then yes. Otherwise, I believe medics should be singularly focused on the profession and compensated fairly.


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 5, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> I think it depends on where you are in the country. Here in Western Washington, anyone who brings up the idea of a volunteer medic is looked at like a two headed monster, but back on the East Coast, where I'm from, there are plenty of volunteer paramedics, as well as intermediates and basics. The amount of time one would have to commit as a volunteer to go through medic school is prohibitive in most cases, but there are many like the OP who have good jobs and want to simply give back to the community.
> 
> I have a friend in West Virginia who has been a volunteer paramedic for almost 10 years. She has a job where she can telecommute and make her own hours. It's the perfect situation. She's able to respond almost anytime she's needed, the small town she lives in has ALS service, she feels good when she gives back to her community and she still makes a decent living and can provide for her family.
> 
> Do I think volunteer ALS is a good idea? If it's the ONLY way a small community can provide paramedic service, then yes. Otherwise, I believe medics should be singularly focused on the profession and compensated fairly.



I'm in Howard County MD, and I know of at least a handful of volly medics, but most (if not all) of them are looking to translate that into a career as a paid FF/P or go to nursing/medical school.  I'm one of the few (that I know of) that has expressed an interest in medic training that doesn't want to use it as any kind of career advancement.  

At this point, I am leaning toward your opinion, thinking that the community and the providers are both generally better off with paid medics. Considering that if I manage to get 8-12 hours a week in riding, it's a 'heavy' week for me, I don't think that's enough time on the box to keep my hypothetical-ALS skills as sharp as they should be.  I work enough calls where we establish an IV, but I don't remember the last time I saw somebody get tubed prehospital.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 5, 2011)

Then maybe moving to the AEMT level (or whatever MD is calling Intermediates) might be a good next step for you. 

I think that 6 to 8 hours a week isn't enough to keep your skills and critical thinking abilities, as they relate to patient care, sharp. 

I applaud your willingness to take it as far as you can, but medic school is a huge commitment, as not one that I would take on if I were only planning to volunteer. 

Also, for what its worth, my friend in WV was a career medic in a busy system before a career change. She realized she missed EMS and now volunteers, but she started with the idea of working in the profession.


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## EMS49393 (Jan 5, 2011)

I volunteer in Maryland as a paramedic.  I was a career paramedic but I've taken a break to work on my own business.  I may have to go back to it part-time if my business doesn't take off before I run out of money, but in the event that I do not return to being a paid paramedic, I still have my volunteering to maintain my license and I get to donate time when I can with the only stipulation being a 20 hour a month requirement.   

I'm also working full-time on another degree.  So between my business (which is much more than a 40 hour week) and college, a full-time paramedic gig is pretty much out of the question.

I see no problem volunteering as a paramedic.  I do take considerably more continuing education simply because I do not have the call volume paid paramedics do.


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## mgr22 (Jan 5, 2011)

I think volunteering at any level of EMS certification is inherently good. I also believe volunteers should be held to the same standards as paid providers.


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## nakenyon (Jan 5, 2011)

mgr22 said:


> I think volunteering at any level of EMS certification is inherently good. I also believe volunteers should be held to the same standards as paid providers.



Being part of a completely volunteer BLS organization, I completely agree. The level care provided by volunteers need to be the same as paid.


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 5, 2011)

EMSJunkie91 said:


> Being part of a completely volunteer BLS organization, I completely agree. The level care provided by volunteers need to be the same as paid.



In our county it definitely is - our station has at least 6 full-time paid career staff there 24/7, and us volunteers ride the same equipment.  We have 2 ALS ambulances, that we switch back and forth - for 40 days or so the career guys will have 15 in service 24/7, then the next 40 they'll have 16 in service 24/7, with us volunteers using the one that is "out of service" when we come in.


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## abckidsmom (Jan 5, 2011)

I started as a volunteer when I was in high school, became an intermediate as soon as I turned 18, and took paramedic class after I graduated from college.  I volunteered pretty much full time during those years, my husband was working in our county and I rode with him.

I went on to work 5 years in the city nearby, and then started having babies.  I've worked part time or volunteered since 2004, and I freely admit that I feel rusty at times.  I currently volunteer only, but that's about to change again.

All that said, I don't believe it's possible to gain the necessary critical thinking skills and practical hands-on experience if you're spending less than 20-24 hours a week on the ambulance in a reasonably busy system. 

That's AFTER class is over.  

IMO, it's a question only you can answer.  I don't know any medics who currently and always has run one shift a week and can realistically compare with someone who does a great job doing EMS for a living.


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## 46Young (Jan 5, 2011)

My time as both a medic student and as a full time NYC medic has left me with a certain amount of disdain towards other EMS systems. We were only dispatched true ALS job types, with legitimately sick pts, and the call volume was high, so the learning curve was steep. You weren't considered experienced until at least your first refresher at three years. I then worked for a 100% "one and one" ALS county third service, and now a fire based system with a combination of dual medic and one/one. In both systems, those units were dispatched to everything. You may not see a pt in true distress but once or twice a week on average (56 hour workweek) if you're lucky. Your day is filled with sick jobs, injuries, or the *yawn* Vitals, O2, Monitor. IV, Txp. 

I feel sorry for the student that maybe gets the chance to make a real definitive Dx and give meds or other interventions only a handful of times a month. I would get 2-4 good jobs on a 8 hour rotation most days. If you're planning to do the medic course anywhere but an inner city environment, then I feel that you're at a disadvantage in gaining the necessary experience and acute pt contacts to be a truly competent and proficient medic. And that's full time. Having said that, if you can ride at a combo paid/vollie house and ride third on a medic unit, you can gain that experience with the career medic until you're comfortable riding lead on your own bus. Good luck, regardless.


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## ParaPrincess904 (Jan 10, 2011)

I am both a paid and volunteer paramedic. I would say that if you only want to be a volunteer, go for the intermediate level of training. I was an EMT-Critical Care (mostly equivalent to an NREMT I-99) as a volunteer before advancing to paramedic. Had I not been doing it as a career, I don't know if I would have done it.


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 10, 2011)

All - thanks a lot for the genuine input.  I was a little nervous to post, expecting at least a little volly-stigma from the crowd.  After a number of you more or less confirmed my fears about not having enough time to really grow into a competent medic on my schedule, I will consider EMT-I.  

I'm not 100% sure how it works in my jurisdiction in MD, or if it is changing as we transition to the new standards, so I'll have to look into it more and see if it is worth it.  My preliminary investigations show that MD recognizes EMT-I/99 certs, which can basically function as medics with the exception of
-Nasotracheal intubation
-Administration of Haldol
-Amount of medications that need online Medical Direction

I'll have to consult my EMS Captain and see what his thoughts are, and if Howard County has any special quirks I should be aware of (we just hired our own full-time EMS medical director, only county in Maryland to have it's own full-time doc).


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 10, 2011)

My EMS Sergeant (who is currently enrolled in medic school) says that almost all programs in MD have stopped offering any Intermediate training.  He says that MD is planning to phase out any type of EMT-I/CRT/AEMT levels and only recognize B's and P's.  Poo.


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## rescue99 (Jan 10, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> My EMS Sergeant (who is currently enrolled in medic school) says that almost all programs in MD have stopped offering any Intermediate training.  He says that MD is planning to phase out any type of EMT-I/CRT/AEMT levels and only recognize B's and P's.  Poo.



Ah, but did he say the B would be what we currently call our EMTI-85? Just wondered. Some states already have the EMT-IV.


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## DogPoundMedic (Jan 10, 2011)

I worked on a volunteer FD outside of Cleveland Ohio for 8 years about 5 of them as a medic. Towards the end of my time there I had 3 jobs, It was tough but the FD was my favorite. We had several people who had 3+ jobs and they made it around. Depending on the structure of the department depends on participation, it was pretty easy to maintain your job there. Not to mention the many benefits, friends for life, you will get to know the local PD and get more face time with them, I have now moved accrost the country and still talk to them on an at least montly basis. I say YES do it. Its the most rewarding thing you can do for your community( just not rewarding very much for your wallet) Hope this helps


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## 22cent (Feb 1, 2011)

For what it's worth, I volunteered for awhile after I became a paramedic. My situation was looking grim for getting hired on where I was living but I quickly realized how important it was to get out there and keep running calls. I didn't have anything lucrative going on as far as another career but I look back now and can appreciate all the free training I got and the ability to selectively go on critical calls. Fortunately my status as a volunteer in good standing landed me the full time job I wanted and the perspective really helped me understand the insane world of a combined fire department. I think you will benefit immensely from the experience of being an ALS provider but make sure you are being fair to your next patient and dedicate more time to being competent with it.


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## FireResuce48 (Feb 1, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> My EMS Sergeant (who is currently enrolled in medic school) says that almost all programs in MD have stopped offering any Intermediate training.  He says that MD is planning to phase out any type of EMT-I/CRT/AEMT levels and only recognize B's and P's.  Poo.



I've heard the opposite. I have heard that Maryland will continue to recognize EMT-I 99 or as MD calls it CRT. If they were to only recognize B's and P's there would be an uproar from a lot of jurisdictions as many will only train their providers to the I-99 level.


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## 22cent (Feb 2, 2011)

I can appreciate what you are saying about experience. I was pretty much fed to the wolves in a combined department after having gotten used to working at a career department. Very different animal.


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## PotashRLS (Feb 2, 2011)

mgr22 said:


> I think volunteering at any level of EMS certification is inherently good. I also believe volunteers should be held to the same standards as paid providers.




I read this a lot on this forum.  Do some states have different licensure standards for volunteer vs. career?  In Wisconsin, our licensure and continuing education/refresher/medical direction is the same regardless of your "employment status".  Volunteer EMT-B/IT/I 99 squads are exactly the same as the career departments that employ the same EMT levels.  Physician Medical Directors routinely manage combinations of volunteer and career departments.  However, paramedics here are primarily career due to the extensive education.  Many do volunteer some free time on the small squads that they started their EMS careers at.  They can only practice at the EMT level that the department is licensed for.  

I think you are a truly committed person to consider being a volunteer medic.  The biggest hangup I personally would have is that a few years down the road will the large amount of continuing education and recerts drain your free time and money?  To work that hard for licensure and then have to give it up later due to time conflicts from your evolving life would be a shame.  Good luck in what ever you choose Dixie.


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## mgr22 (Feb 2, 2011)

PotashRLS said:


> I read this a lot on this forum.  Do some states have different licensure standards for volunteer vs. career?



In my experience, it's not licensure standards that are different, but rather the expectations of administrators and the public.


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## purdue1014 (Feb 2, 2011)

Don't have time to read the whole thread...But I've heard of a couple medics that work full time 911, (who have/already had a good job, etc.) and get their paychecks automatically forwarded to a local charity....Just an idea...

B


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## Wes (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm VERY late to this thread, having just joined the website today.  

However, I'm a volunteer paramedic.  In fact, I got my EMT-B, then my paramedic AFTER law school.  I practice law full-time and volunteer as a paramedic near Houston.

For me, the hardest part has been finding a department that actually wants and welcomes volunteers at any level about EMT-B/first responder.

Fortunately, the department I'm with is very open to volunteers and, in fact, I now coordinate our volunteer program.


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## izibo (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm also a volunteer medic. It gives a good mix to my life


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## dstevens58 (Aug 26, 2011)

I started out as a volunteer fire department with a first aid card, then entered the Navy (corpsman).

After 13 years in the military, then 20 years in law enforcement, I came back to my hometown and went back to the volunteer fire department (heck, I live right across the street).

There are only three of us (EMT-B's) and no medics and we have to rely on a mutual aid agreement with a neighboring community for ALS.

I asked our department and they welcomed me with open arms and paid for my EMT-B school, in hoping I would be participating as a volunteer in the department (which I have).  They are also using some grant monies to pay for my medic training.

I'm older (snow on the roof, but fire in the furnace); unemployed (not by choice) and have plenty of time to run when the tones go off.


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## hk531971 (Sep 5, 2011)

***

I just stared to vounteer as a paramedic because I never to get to get much patient contact or the lame CHF/diabetic calls that ppl are bored with.  I need more patient contacts as all I get are serious trauma, were they need a OR, not some guy to play doctor on them. Dont care what ppl think ( not u guys), I have a job


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## JJR512 (Sep 5, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> Is anyone out there a volunteer paramedic?


 
There's at least one volunteer paramedic at your station. Not sure who it is, but on the county intranet, I read a story about some call your station ran recently, and the article mentioned the crew who worked the incident, and one of the people was listed as a volunteer paramedic.

I can't find the article right now on the intranet site.


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## EMT-23 (Sep 5, 2011)

well for all the studying that medics go through, I believe they deserve better than $15-17/hourly...if ppl start volunteering as medics...it causes a greater surplus of medics vs. the demand...and pay wouldnt go up...i know that there are currently volunteer medics already...and i mean man that is great if you would do all that to give back to the community...but dang...lol...seems like a lot to go through to give back...not saying anything is wrong with it...but if i ran an ems company...Id probably keep a volunteer over a paid person to save money...but it would suck for that person who did all the work and lost his job....


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## Cup of Joe (Sep 5, 2011)

EMT-23 said:


> well for all the studying that medics go through, I believe they deserve better than $15-17/hourly...if ppl start volunteering as medics...it causes a greater surplus of medics vs. the demand...and pay wouldnt go up...i know that there are currently volunteer medics already...and i mean man that is great if you would do all that to give back to the community...but dang...lol...seems like a lot to go through to give back...not saying anything is wrong with it...but if i ran an ems company...Id probably keep a volunteer over a paid person to save money...but it would suck for that person who did all the work and lost his job....



The volunteer medics I know WERE career medics working in city EMS and it was time for them to move on.  People are getting heavier and further away from the ground floor....and stairs are cheaper than elevators. :rofl:

I guess they loved what they did and wanted to continue it in a less physically demanding environment.


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## DrParasite (Sep 5, 2011)

EMT-23 said:


> well for all the studying that medics go through, I believe they deserve better than $15-17/hourly...if ppl start volunteering as medics...it causes a greater surplus of medics vs. the demand...and pay wouldnt go up...i know that there are currently volunteer medics already...and i mean man that is great if you would do all that to give back to the community...but dang...lol...seems like a lot to go through to give back...


I call BS on this.  you are describing what is known at "the big lie theory" if I shout something loud enough, and get enough people to believe it, despite it being grossly untrue, it will be accepted as fact.  

Volunteering doesn't affect pay wages, except under one condition:





EMT-23 said:


> not saying anything is wrong with it...but if i ran an ems company...Id probably keep a volunteer over a paid person to save money...but it would suck for that person who did all the work and lost his job....


if you are in a combination department, where you have paid and volunteer working together, than yes, the argument can be made that volunteer do cause wages to go down.  But I think its rare (but not unheard of) to have paid staff lose jobs because active volunteers are staffing enough to do the job without them.

but in an all 100% paid system, volunteer paramedics have no bearing on your salary... and anyone who tells you otherwise is a lying manager looking to screw you out of your money by blaming someone who has nothing to do with the situation.

and upstate NY has a lot of volunteer paramedics and volunteer critical care medics.


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## slb862 (Sep 6, 2011)

I am a volunteer medic.  I started out with a volunteer EMT-B service (back in the early 80's), worked for 2 services, and got the chance to go to medic school.  I worked fulltime management, and Paramedic, CC-P, transfered to another city worked for another 5+ years as a 911 Paramedic and CC-P transfer medic.  I decided that I wanted to retire, or so I thought.  I moved back to where my mother was living and was invited to join a Volunteer Paramedic service.  Which I do in my spared time.  I feel as strong and skillful as the day I left a full-time paramedic service.  I enjoy the time away, but it is something that comes naturally to me.  AND now I am thinkling of going back to it full-time.  (oh, what am I thinking).  Quick someone talk me out of it?!?. jk   Point is: do what works for you, volunteer or work full-time.  It could become very gratifying.  Obviously it did for me!  Take care and keep looking for that something to point you in the direction.   Keep your head up or you may miss something!!!


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## DrParasite (Sep 6, 2011)

as for the OP, the biggest problem with being a volunteer paramedic is the lack of experience when compared to a full time paramedic.  education is usually the same, but a full time career paramedic will, on average, see more sick patients than a volunteer paramedic, perform more critical life saving interventions than a volunteer paramedic, and in general have more patient contacts than volunteer paramedics.

this isn't a knock on volunteers, just simple numbers.

the more times you use a skill, the more proficient you become at it. 

you can be a doctor, educated more than any paramedic, but if you only see a sick patient once a month, than how good will you be at treating that train wreck that falls in your lap?  and how do you think that doctor will do against an equally educated doctor who deals with trainwrecks 2 and 3 times a day?


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## EMT-23 (Sep 7, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> I call BS on this.  you are describing what is known at "the big lie theory" if I shout something loud enough, and get enough people to believe it, despite it being grossly untrue, it will be accepted as fact.
> 
> Volunteering doesn't affect pay wages, except under one condition:if you are in a combination department, where you have paid and volunteer working together, than yes, the argument can be made that volunteer do cause wages to go down.  But I think its rare (but not unheard of) to have paid staff lose jobs because active volunteers are staffing enough to do the job without them.
> 
> ...




Dont get your panties in a bunch...Im not even sure...I didnt say I have proven facts and that we are going to debate on the situation...I was just saying what I thought COULD be possible...I have no problem with people volunteering...But 70% FF are Volunteers and this makes it hard for people to get a paid position...so I was relating it to that...Did not mean to make you upset or cry...


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## MonkeySquasher (Sep 16, 2011)

EMT-23 said:


> Dont get your panties in a bunch...Im not even sure...I didnt say I have proven facts and that we are going to debate on the situation...I was just saying what I thought COULD be possible...I have no problem with people volunteering...But 70% FF are Volunteers and this makes it hard for people to get a paid position...so I was relating it to that...Did not mean to make you upset or cry...



What he's saying is that just having volunteers available doesn't affect a person's pay or job status, except in few situations.  There's many other factors than just "Hey, these people will do it for free"...  There's call volume, tax base, and what the public expects.  If a mayor takes away a full-time paid EMS and Fire Dept for some volly squads with twice the response time and, possibly, half the training*...  He won't be re-elected, no matter how much money he saved the municipality.

*(This was said merely for example, not for an inflammatory response.)


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## phideux (Sep 16, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> as for the OP, the biggest problem with being a volunteer paramedic is the lack of experience when compared to a full time paramedic.  education is usually the same, but a full time career paramedic will, on average, see more sick patients than a volunteer paramedic, perform more critical life saving interventions than a volunteer paramedic, and in general have more patient contacts than volunteer paramedics.
> 
> this isn't a knock on volunteers, just simple numbers.
> 
> ...



That's not always true, I've been on a volunteer squad for the past 18 months. Our squad covers the same territory as 6 county/city ambulances. As far as calls, patient contacts, and transports, my ambulance is the busiest in the city/county this year. I've done double the calls of the nearest county unit, and almost 4 times the calls of the city units.
Of course I have been running the same kind of hours per week as the city/county crews, 35-45hrs/week. I see it as a great place to keep my skills sharp while waiting for my non volunteer spot to open up.


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