# Any way to hide age when applying?



## ChanelCinq (Aug 20, 2013)

So I ended up getting my first Bachelors about 10 years after I graduated from high school.  Normally when I apply for a job, if they look at the date of my first Bachelors they would assume I am 10 years younger.  I look younger and I am fit.

However with these EMT jobs you must include a copy of your drivers license which has your birth date.  I really feel that is unfair.  The DMV drivers history report also has your birth date on it.  Does any one black out their birth date?

I always use my passport when I am hired at a job so they never have any clue how old I am.

This is kind of frustrating me.  Is there anything I can do?  What have older people done?  

Do the companies not care about age?  I feel this industry is more male dominated so I have age and sex working against me.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 20, 2013)

If you are trying to hide anything from your possible employers, that is not going to look good at all. Age isn't a fact in most EMS systems. It is more of a factor in the Fire department setting.


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## TransportJockey (Aug 20, 2013)

Unless you're under 21 you shouldn't need to Hide your age. And any attempts should get you disqualified automatically I hope


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 20, 2013)

TransportJockey said:


> Unless you're under 21 you shouldn't need to Hide your age. And any attempts should get you disqualified automatically I hope



What do you mean, _any attempts should get you disqualified automatically I hope_?

You know it is illegal in the US to ask the age of an applicant.  It is illegal to ask it in an interview and illegal for it to be asked on an application.  

However, in this industry they get around it because they ask for a copy of your DL and driving history.  They can now discriminate because they have that information.

You are probably in your 20s because I have many friends in the 40s and 50s that have most definitely been discriminated against because of their age.  It happens a lot.  But obviously it would never happen to someone in their 20s or 30s.


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## TransportJockey (Aug 20, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> What do you mean, _any attempts should get you disqualified automatically I hope_?
> 
> You know it is illegal in the US to ask the age of an applicant.  It is illegal to ask it in an interview and illegal for it to be asked on an application.
> 
> ...


Then kindly explain to me why I was discriminated against when I was 20 and applying for EMS jobs. And for me I said I hope because it counts as falsifying documentation in almost every service I have worked for. 
We have people at my current service from 20 to sixty. And we have no issues hiring older people. They generally have a wealth of experience that is not there with the youngest population we hire. 
I see more discrimination for under 21 than over 40.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 20, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> What do you mean, _any attempts should get you disqualified automatically I hope_?
> 
> You know it is illegal in the US to ask the age of an applicant.  It is illegal to ask it in an interview and illegal for it to be asked on an application.
> 
> ...



Except that agencies routinely hire people who are in their 49s or even 50s. We have a medic who started when he retired from his old job. He's in his late 50s early 60s.

I had the same issue as TJ. I wasn't given the time of day when I was under 21.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 20, 2013)

Heck I was 19 when I got hired and didn't get discriminated against. We have a couple of medics who are in their late 50s. 

If they ask for your DL and you don't give it to them, you shouldn't be hired for not supplying the information requested. 

If you are hiding your age from the company what else are you hiding from them? That's one of the ways the company can view it.


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## akflightmedic (Aug 20, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> I always use my passport when I am hired at a job so they never have any clue how old I am.



Not sure what you mean by this as every passport has your date of birth on it.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 20, 2013)

TransportJockey said:


> Then kindly explain to me why I was discriminated against when I was 20 and applying for EMS jobs. And for me I said I hope because it counts as falsifying documentation in almost every service I have worked for.
> We have people at my current service from 20 to sixty. And we have no issues hiring older people. They generally have a wealth of experience that is not there with the youngest population we hire.
> I see more discrimination for under 21 than over 40.



I am not talking about being 20 or even 24 since some car rental companies do not rent to people under 25, or you have to jump through hoops to do so.  So I can imagine some ambulance companies having a minimum age limit.  Many jobs I have seen said must be 21 or older.  But a company would hire a 28 year old over a 48 year old in a heart beat.

I am not falsifying documents.  I am asking if there is anything that people do.  I appreciate people trying to help but it appears you are all under 25 so you don't have age discrimination the way I do.  Can anyone over 40 chime in?


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 20, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Heck I was 19 when I got hired and didn't get discriminated against. We have a couple of medics who are in their late 50s.
> 
> If they ask for your DL and you don't give it to them, you shouldn't be hired for not supplying the information requested.
> 
> If you are hiding your age from the company what else are you hiding from them? That's one of the ways the company can view it.



No, I am including everything they are asking for.  I am not leaving anything out.  I just wonder if my age will hurt me.  And I am honest to a fault.  So there is nothing I am hiding from them.  I just find it unfair that most other jobs would assume I am 10 years younger as it is illegal to ask your age.  But this industry side steps that because obviously they need your DL and driving history for insurance purposes.


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## Medic Tim (Aug 20, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> I am not talking about being 20 or even 24 since some car rental companies do not rent to people under 25, or you have to jump through hoops to do so.  So I can imagine some ambulance companies having a minimum age limit.  Many jobs I have seen said must be 21 or older.  But a company would hire a 28 year old over a 48 year old in a heart beat.
> 
> I am not falsifying documents.  I am asking if there is anything that people do.  I appreciate people trying to help but it appears you are all under 25 so you don't have age discrimination the way I do.  Can anyone over 40 chime in?



i'm not over 40 but from what I have seen people in their 40s or older will be hired before a teenager or someone in their 20s....especially for an EMT position.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 20, 2013)

akflightmedic said:


> Not sure what you mean by this as every passport has your date of birth on it.



Yeah, opps.  I have my passport with me and you are right.  Not sure why I thought it was not on there.  That would be weird if a passport didn't have a birth date.  But anyway, usually you show that stuff once you have been hired and signed the offer letter.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 20, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> i'm not over 40 but from what I have seen people in their 40s or older will be hired before a teenager or someone in their 20s....especially for an EMT position.



Thanks Tim.  I hope so.  Many of my classmates and I are pounding the pavement.  And we are all kind of over lapping.  We went to school in San Francisco but people live in SF, the Peninsula, South Bay, and the East Bay, and most of us are applying for positions all over the Bay Area.


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## Tigger (Aug 20, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> What do you mean, _any attempts should get you disqualified automatically I hope_?
> 
> You know it is illegal in the US to ask the age of an applicant.  It is illegal to ask it in an interview and illegal for it to be asked on an application.
> 
> ...



I think you underestimate the degree to which ambulance companies actually care about your age. Companies are not trying to get around labor laws by asking for your birthday. They have a legitimate need to know your age as it does in fact affect your ability to be insured.

You should also know that under federal law it is not illegal to ask an applicant their age on an application or during an interview. 

http://www.shrm.org/TemplatesTools/hrqa/Pages/dateofbirth.aspx

I could not find any California statue that would supersede this. 

And while many of our posters are in their 20s, many are not. Furthermore, many of our 20 something aged posters still have quite a bit of EMS experience and many have management experience.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 20, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> You know it is illegal in the US to ask the age of an applicant.  It is illegal to ask it in an interview and illegal for it to be asked on an application.



On every application I have ever filled out has asked for my birthday. Not sure where you are getting that information.


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## Jim37F (Aug 20, 2013)

My thought is that of you're so concerned about a company discriminating against you because you're older, why apply there in the first place? 

If you're afraid of them discovering your age in the hiring process, what happens once you get hired? They either find out your true age, or you lie about it and live in fear that during any one of the interactions with human resources they'll find out your age and fire you for lying or otherwise start discriminating against you. 

As others have posted, there's more than enough ambulance companies out there that don't really care about your age, try applying there, without trying to hide your age and see what happens


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## Aprz (Aug 21, 2013)

Y'know, I think I did hear somewhere that it is illegal to ask about age during an interview, and it's even illegal to ask when they graduated because you can figure out their age from that. Read it from a Yahoo! news article I believe. I don't believe this rule extends to applications though. It's important to know that you are eligible to work, and for ambulance companies, it's important to even be able to insure you. How else are they suppose to know that you are even old enough to work? Old enough to be insured to drive? Aren't they gonna need your driver license not altered to say you are allowed to drive? You're gonna be required to have your driver license (among many other certs), which you will be required to show when asked to even drive an ambulance. I really see no way outta this.

When I was 20-years-old, I couldn't get hired at any ambulance companies because they required you to be 21-years-old or older. :[

I cannot say I've experience discrimination for being old, I'm not old. I agree with others though, I've seen a lot of people who are at least twice my age get hired working as EMTs. It's not uncommon or rare to see.


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## MrJones (Aug 21, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> I am not talking about being 20 or even 24 since some car rental companies do not rent to people under 25, or you have to jump through hoops to do so.  So I can imagine some ambulance companies having a minimum age limit.  Many jobs I have seen said must be 21 or older.  But a company would hire a 28 year old over a 48 year old in a heart beat.
> 
> I am not falsifying documents.  I am asking if there is anything that people do.  I appreciate people trying to help but it appears you are all under 25 so you don't have age discrimination the way I do.  Can anyone over 40 chime in?



I was over _50_ when I applied for my first EMT job, and made no effort to hide the fact. Got hired by a reputable service after the first interview.

Relax.


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## Christopher (Aug 21, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> Yeah, opps.  I have my passport with me and you are right.  Not sure why I thought it was not on there.  That would be weird if a passport didn't have a birth date.  But anyway, usually you show that stuff once you have been hired and signed the offer letter.



If they are running a background check, credit check, driving records check, or have a specific age requirement for the position it will not be illegal.


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## terrible one (Aug 21, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> Thanks Tim.  I hope so.  Many of my classmates and I are pounding the pavement.  And we are all kind of over lapping.  We went to school in San Francisco but people live in SF, the Peninsula, South Bay, and the East Bay, and most of us are applying for positions all over the Bay Area.



You realize your applying in one of the most oversaturated markets for EMTs. You maybe being passed over because there are far more qualified canidates not because of your age.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 21, 2013)

Tigger said:


> You should also know that under federal law it is not illegal to ask an applicant their age on an application or during an interview.
> 
> http://www.shrm.org/TemplatesTools/hrqa/Pages/dateofbirth.aspx
> 
> I could not find any California statue that would supersede this.



I tried to click on the link but it costs 180 USD to join that site.  It could be that laws have changed over the years.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 21, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> On every application I have ever filled out has asked for my birthday. Not sure where you are getting that information.



DesertEMT666 I have not filled out an application since the late 80s or early 90s.  I started working when I was 16 and all the applications asked was, "Are you over age 16?"  A very small percentage of companies required that you be over age 18 and in that case they asked, "Are you over age 18?"

But that was it, and NEVER was a birth date asked on the application or in an interview.  It could very well be that laws have changed since the late 80s and early 90s.

And ever since the mid 90s I have providing a resume and have not seen a job application.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 21, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> My thought is that of you're so concerned about a company discriminating against you because you're older, why apply there in the first place?
> 
> If you're afraid of them discovering your age in the hiring process, what happens once you get hired? They either find out your true age, or you lie about it and live in fear that during any one of the interactions with human resources they'll find out your age and fire you for lying or otherwise start discriminating against you.
> 
> As others have posted, there's more than enough ambulance companies out there that don't really care about your age, try applying there, without trying to hide your age and see what happens



How am I to know if a company discriminates?  I am applying EVERYWHERE.  I truly am apply to every single company within a 45 minute drive.

I don't care if they find out my age.  I just don't want that to prevent me from getting an interview.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 21, 2013)

MrJones said:


> I was over _50_ when I applied for my first EMT job, and made no effort to hide the fact. Got hired by a reputable service after the first interview.
> 
> Relax.



That's what I am hoping will happen.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 21, 2013)

terrible one said:


> You realize your applying in one of the most oversaturated markets for EMTs. You maybe being passed over because there are far more qualified canidates not because of your age.



Well I have been talking to a few of my classmates.  All the classmates I have stayed in contact with also have a previous Bachelors degree.  I couple girls in their mid 20s already have had a few interviews.  I have not yet received an interview.  BUT they took NREMT 5 days before me and in San Francisco they give you your county card on the spot, the day you apply.  So they are about a week ahead of me.

Now off I go to pound the pavement.


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## NomadicMedic (Aug 21, 2013)

Every agency I've ever seen regularly hires people of all ages, both sexes and of any race. Could just be there are no available job because California has more EMTs than they know what to do with. 

Keep applying. Somebody will hire you eventually. Working as an EMT in California is like a fast food job. They're always hiring.


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## DrParasite (Aug 21, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> You know it is illegal in the US to ask the age of an applicant.  It is illegal to ask it in an interview and illegal for it to be asked on an application.


I could be mistaken, but almost every application I have fileld out required me to put my date of birth on it. it usually went next to my address and before my phone number, and was kept under demographics.

BTW, the SoCal market is oversaturated with paramedics.  everyone is a paramedic looking for work, including the guys at the fast food places (or so I have been told).  if they are that saturated with paramedics, how many open EMT jobs do you think their are?  probably not discrimination, just a super sucky job market for emt job seekrs.


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## Tigger (Aug 21, 2013)

It is not illegal to ask for age. It is illegal to use age to aid in discriminatory practices.


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## bbmtnbb (Aug 21, 2013)

In this line of work age can be a help or a harm.  If you don't take care of yourself and become 'old' then no one will want to hire you. (the old are not determined by age but by their ceasing to be young)
If you are older by age then you have more maturity and more life experience.  I have always found it to be a plus in interviews not a negative.  I do not hide my age and once I applied had multiple interview offers and a very good job offer.  I am in the "over 40" group.  
Make sure you are fit, sharp in mind and KNOW your job and you should not have a problem.  If you pant when you walk across the room then you appear old but not by a date on your DL.  Good Luck and have the confidence you should.
 I agree that more under 21 get discriminated against than over 40-does NOT mean ALL under 21, just the ones someone deemed immature or that a company policy/politics dictated to stay away from that age group.


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## mycrofft (Aug 22, 2013)

And if you get hired, you will hide your age for the remainder of your employment?

My wife did HR. She says you can challenge the question on the basis of why they want to know. However, I can't see many scenarios where that sort of start will get you a happy job.


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 22, 2013)

So here is a scenario....

You apply for the job but refuse to give your date of birth.  The company then runs a background check based upon your name only (which isn't going to happen but let's assume it does for the purpose of the scenario).

The name-only based background check comes back with several results (because there is no way to filter it down more), some of which have disqualifying criminal records, some which don't, and some which have no records at all.

Do you really think the company is even going to bother hiring you when there is a chance you could be one of those with a disqualifying record?  Why would you assume they are going to take that liability.

And remember, this is even assuming that the company bothers to run a background check based upon only your name which is highly unlikely.


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## chaz90 (Aug 22, 2013)

At my job, I was never asked my age during the application or interview process. I believe there was some point where I had to state that I was 18 or over, but no specific age was mentioned. After I was hired and had the formal job offer in hand, one of the division managers involved in the hiring asked how old I was out of curiosity. He mentioned that he wasn't allowed to ask during the hiring process. My guess would be that their way of avoiding all possible accusations of age related discrimination is by simply not asking age during the process. Now they had of course seen me in person during the interview, so they had a pretty good feel for my approximate age.


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## Hunter (Aug 22, 2013)

Bottom line here, unless you're under 21 or over 40ish depending where you go there no reason to hide it.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 23, 2013)

bbmtnbb said:


> In this line of work age can be a help or a harm.  If you don't take care of yourself and become 'old' then no one will want to hire you. (the old are not determined by age but by their ceasing to be young)
> If you are older by age then you have more maturity and more life experience.  I have always found it to be a plus in interviews not a negative.  I do not hide my age and once I applied had multiple interview offers and a very good job offer.  I am in the "over 40" group.
> Make sure you are fit, sharp in mind and KNOW your job and you should not have a problem.  If you pant when you walk across the room then you appear old but not by a date on your DL.  Good Luck and have the confidence you should.
> I agree that more under 21 get discriminated against than over 40-does NOT mean ALL under 21, just the ones someone deemed immature or that a company policy/politics dictated to stay away from that age group.



LOL, I certainly don't pant when walking across the room.  I go to the gym 5 times a week, do vinyasa yoga, mountain bike, used to practice Capoeira and other martial arts and many other physical activities.  And I don't look my age at all.

It seems like they don't care because I already have one interview with it appears more to come.  That's all that I cared about was that they would not call me for an interview because of my age.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 23, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> And if you get hired, you will hide your age for the remainder of your employment?
> 
> My wife did HR. She says you can challenge the question on the basis of why they want to know. However, I can't see many scenarios where that sort of start will get you a happy job.



Why would I hide my age.  My fear was that I would get overlooked because of my age.  But that appears not to be the case.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 23, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> So here is a scenario....
> 
> You apply for the job but refuse to give your date of birth.  The company then runs a background check based upon your name only (which isn't going to happen but let's assume it does for the purpose of the scenario).
> 
> ...



I would never refuse to provide something they ask for as that would automatically disqualify me for the position.  I am trying not to make waves, not to draw unwanted attention.


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## MrJones (Aug 23, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> I would never refuse to provide something they ask for as that would automatically disqualify me for the position.  I am trying not to make waves, not to draw unwanted attention.



"Mr. ChanelCinq, we think you will be an excellent fit here at Cabulance EMS but before we can hire you we're going to need the usernames and passwords to your social media accounts so that we can assure ourselves that there are no skeletons in your on-line closet."

It happens. What will you do?


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 23, 2013)

MrJones said:


> "Mr. ChanelCinq, we think you will be an excellent fit here at Cabulance EMS but before we can hire you we're going to need the usernames and passwords to your social media accounts so that we can assure ourselves that there are no skeletons in your on-line closet."
> 
> It happens. What will you do?



Huh, wow.  I would move on to the next company.  I don't have anything illegal in there but they may not appreciate some of my Burning Man pics and other stuff.

By the way it is Miss ChanelCinq.  Chanel Cinq is Chanel #5 in French.  I don't think many guys would have a perfume as their handle.


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## Tigger (Aug 23, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> Why would I hide my age.  My fear was that I would get overlooked because of my age.  But that appears not to be the case.



I'm not sure, but it is how you titled this thread.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 23, 2013)

Tigger said:


> I'm not sure, but it is how you titled this thread.



Sorry, at first I thought it was so odd that they wanted a copy of your DL and H6 and other stuff with your age on it.  I thought it was illegal to ask age.  Tigger as you have stated they cannot discriminate but they can still ask for documents that have your age.

The only reason I was worried about my age in the first place is I thought it would prevent me from getting an interview.  Since that does not appear to be the case I don't care if they know my age.  I always liked that my first Bachelors I received 11 years after I graduated from high school.  So if they did the math it would appear I was 7 years younger and being in your mid 30s is a big difference from early 40s.  But I have one interview already and hopefully more to come.  So They can ask for all the age related documents they need if they still give me an interview and consider me for the job.

I have filled out quite a few applications now and they DO NOT ask birthday.  They ask if your are over 18 or if you are over 21.  Also for high school they do not ask when you graduated.  The graduation date is greyed out for high school and only listed for college.  But then you have to provide an H6 and copy of your DL.


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## MrJones (Aug 23, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> Huh, wow.  I would move on to the next company.  I don't have anything illegal in there but they may not appreciate some of my Burning Man pics and other stuff.
> 
> By the way it is Miss ChanelCinq.  Chanel Cinq is Chanel #5 in French.  I don't think many guys would have a perfume as their handle.



Apologies for the gender confusion. But now we know.

As far your response to the substance of my post goes, I was just pointing out that you might not have considered all the possibilities when you wrote "I would never refuse to provide something they ask for...."


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 23, 2013)

MrJones said:


> Apologies for the gender confusion. But now we know.
> 
> As far your response to the substance of my post goes, I was just pointing out that you might not have considered all the possibilities when you wrote "I would never refuse to provide something they ask for...."



Yeah but a company asking for a password to one of my accounts is a bit absurd.  It may happen but it is not a company I would want to work for.


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## Achilles (Aug 25, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> Yeah but a company asking for a password to one of my accounts is a bit absurd.  It may happen but it is not a company I would want to work for.



It's not the uncommon. 
Nobody is forcing you to work for that company.


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## bbmtnbb (Aug 25, 2013)

MrJones said:


> "Mr. ChanelCinq, we think you will be an excellent fit here at Cabulance EMS but before we can hire you we're going to need the usernames and passwords to your social media accounts so that we can assure ourselves that there are no skeletons in your on-line closet."
> 
> It happens. What will you do?



ILEAGAL in Cali, Illinois and Maryland to even ask for those accounts or passwords-Mine is not even in my own name to protect other family members-certainly, so no one would find it if they even looked, plenty of people not on social media-I don't use twitter, or instagram or any other common social media sites, just facebook- won't give mine up nor are they even legally allowed to ask. (I am in Cali) :glare:


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## terrible one (Aug 25, 2013)

While it may be illegal, I believe employers such as FDs and PDs, can simply ask you to log in and go through your social media sites while they watch.


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