# Bad MVC - Lost First Patient



## emt4life (May 1, 2006)

I lost my first pt tonight, bad MVC rollover.  I know I screwed up on a million things, about the only things that I felt went right was the IV and the combitube, although I should have done it sooner.  But according to the doc there was nothing else I could have done (although I can think of some things).  Does the first loss always drive people as crazy as it is me right now?


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## MMiz (May 1, 2006)

emt4life said:
			
		

> I lost my first pt tonight, bad MVC rollover.  I know I screwed up on a million things, about the only things that I felt went right was the IV and the combitube, although I should have done it sooner.  But according to the doc there was nothing else I could have done (although I can think of some things).  Does the first loss always drive people as crazy as it is me right now?



I'm going to move this to its own thread so it doesn't get lost (and you get replies).

I'm sorry to hear about losing your first patient.  There are a million things I would have done differently for most of my patients, but that's the way it is.  Listen to the Doc, he's a wise man.

Afterthoughts are part of the job, and reflecting and sharing is *good*.  I even cried.

I said that the day I stopped feeling crappy when I lost a patient would be the last day I worked in EMS.

I know I can speak for everyone when I say that we're here for you.  Don't feel obligated to share, but know that we're available.  Of course you can always email or PM one of us privately.

Take care,


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## Firechic (May 1, 2006)

emt4life, I am also sorry to hear about your experience. Unfortunately, dealing with death is a part of our jobs. I drove myself crazy with my first patient death, fell 2 stories and landed on his head. He circled the drain all the way to the hospital and died 10 minutes after I got him there. Talk to people ~ it'll help.  Since that patient, I have always liked medical calls more so than trauma, I feel like I can do more for the patient and give them more of a chance.
Don't beat yourself up!
Keep your chin up and do the best you can.


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## nsmedic393 (May 1, 2006)

No point in second guessing yourself. The way I usually measure things up is by asking this question; would they have been better off if I hadn't shown up at all?

I'm all for promoting excellence in our field, but in reality with a blunt force traumatic arrest there will be nothing you can do to bring them back.

Chin up!


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## MedicPrincess (May 1, 2006)

It's natural to second guess yourself.  The first one is hard.  The second one is hard.  The third one sucks.  I had been on a run of 18 cardiac arrests/18 dead.  Finally got one back last week.  You know what....the 18th one sucked too.

You will probably second guess yourself for a while.  Keep in mind though...if a person is going to die, they are going to die.  Really, there isn't a whole heck of a lot we can really do for them if their number is up.

Did you do anything that directly contributed to this patients death?  I don't mean fumbling with a tube, or missing an IV on the first or second try, or bagging to fast or to slow, or dropping the stretcher, or anything like that.  Is there anything YOU DID, that caused this patients death to happen sooner?  Did you push a wrong drug?  or Did you not perform you duty (CPR, Tube, AED)?  Did you get lost on the way to the hospital and just give up and not drive?

If there is nothing you did that caused this guy to die, then you did fine.  Talk about it though.  Really it helps.  Even after my 9th, 14th...whatever...I still talked a little.  By then though it was mostly a few swear words not meant to be heard by children....but it made me feel better.


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## ffemt8978 (May 1, 2006)

I agree with everyone else in that losing any patient sucks, and they never get any easier.

Second guessing yourself is natural, and in limited quantities can be a good thing.  On any call like this one, I tend to be highly critical of my actions for the first 24 hours our so, constantly reviewing what I did or didn't do and trying to figure out if I could have done something different or better.  After that period, I try to incorporate what I learned into my patient care for future patients which will hopefully make me a better EMT.

The problem with second guessing yourself is when you start blaming yourself for things you couldn't control or have prevented.  The best thing you can do is take care of yourself first, then learn from your experiences.


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## DT4EMS (May 2, 2006)

I am gonna 2nd FFEMT8978 with one addition........ if it gets "easy" to lose patients, it is time to get out of the field!

I am not saying cry and want to quit every time a patient dies, but the truth is we do still need to care. I can accept dealing with a person who has had a terminal illness a lot better than a traumatic incident or an acute illness, but I still wonder "What could I have done better?"

As long as we continue to strive to be the best we can be, you can sleep well at night. 

I am sorry to say, the longer you are in the business, the more of this you will see. 

It is threads like this..... the real EMS......not who can spell better than the next or how many letters ae behind your name that make this forum top notch.


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## emtbuff (May 2, 2006)

I'd agree with everything posted up above.  Death is something we deal with and we all find our own way to deal with it after it has occured.

I will also agree with others that have mentioned that once you loose the feeling of loss after a death it is time to move on. You just have to know that you did the best and obviously if it is their time to go they will go home.  You'll see it alot but don't let it discourage you.  Also remember to respect the family for they are your next patients.


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## Medic946 (May 2, 2006)

I agree with everyone above. Loosing a pt never gets any easier.  Don't be afraid to think back on a call in a way that can help you learn but don't be too critical of your actions.  Feeling like everything went wrong is a normal thing to feel, especially when you feel like your working a mile a minute on a severe trauma pt.  Keep your head high and remember that all we can do is to try and give it our all.


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## MariaCatEMT (May 2, 2006)

*EMT4LIFE....I'm so sorry you lost a patient and had such a difficult shift. There isn't any advice I can add to what has been said here (by EMT's far more experienced than me, by the way). If you ever need to talk, feel free to PM me, I'm a good listener.

After reading all the responses, so empathetic, well-thought out.....you guys make me feel proud to be part of such a decent group of folks. Thanks.*


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## Jon (May 2, 2006)

People die. That is an accepted fact. It sucks to lose a patient... and the first one can be REALLY hard... not that it really gets eaiser.

We had a trauma code last weekend... I didn't go, but many of the crew didn't seem "overwhelmed" by it... why? Probably because they realize that the guy had no chance, and were just "going through the motions"

My first fatal was a freshman at my high school, when I was a brand new EMT and a Junior in High School... The kid got hit on a skateboard riding home from "hanging out" with friends on the school grounds. He was hit by a drunk driver who was driving a stake-body truck with bad brakes...

Kid left brain matter on the plow mount on the truck.... was thrown 50-60 feet.

I found out the next morning in school... with everyone else...

I took a week off... thought about things a lot... and came back. Not everyone does... But I came back, and couldn't quit if I wanted to...


Take some time off if you need to... Regroup, spend time with family, etc... do what you have to do... but don't be discoraged... People die... we try to forstall death as long as possible, but some people are too far gone before we start.

Jon


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## Ridryder911 (May 3, 2006)

The first one does suck.. I can't even remember the first one.... If the patient does not have a pulse, I do not start traumatic resuscitation efforts. It is futile. .. Like others described, unfortunately people die... 

R/r 911


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## nsmedic393 (May 3, 2006)

Like rid said; Its easier if they are VSA on arrival. You call em dead and moove on. That doesn't bother me a whole lot usually. We had a couple of calls recently where the patient was alive when we got there but despite working our arses off they died in front of us. (one died literally as the helicopter landed at the scene). Those types of calls really suck.


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## JJR512 (May 3, 2006)

I really, really hope my first dead patient isn't a kid.


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