# Human Cadaver dissection in A&P



## rhan101277 (Aug 12, 2008)

Wanted to see if anyone had a opportunity to do this?  I have seen schools where the whole class kind of works on the cadaver.  I guess it is done at bigger schools, since small schools probably don't have adequate equipment.  Anyhow I had lots of cadaver dissection pictures with my A&P book and wanted to see if anyone had some hands on.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 12, 2008)

It is not so much the size of the school rather the class itself. Cadavers are expensive, so most schools do not utilize human cadavers for entry level A & P. Usually, it is called Gross Anatomy and one will have to take a separate medical or human physiology course. 

I was fortunate that I already had A & P I, II before entering a Gross Anatomy course.. (yes, most Universities will not accept both; rather just one or the other for the anatomy or physiology). I highly suggest if possible to get into one if you are truly serious about medicine. It is not for everyone, yet medicine is not either. 

R/r 911


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## Onceamedic (Aug 12, 2008)

We got to attend autopsies.  While not like dissection, which I would have loved, those autopsies were amazing.  There is nothing like seeing the organs in situ like that.  Before the ME started, we were allowed to inspect the bodies, examining them for injuries, skeletal stability, etc. After the ME had done his thing, we were allowed to dissect the organs.  The cadavers that I have seen were dessicated and the colors, etc. had faded.  These bodies were fresh.  It was a great experience.


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## MMiz (Aug 12, 2008)

Before becoming an EMT I lurked on many medical school discussion forums.  It was always funny and awkward to hear of how difficult it was for the smaller medical schools to obtain human cadavers.  I don't think it had much to do with the lack of equipment, but more the lack of supply.

My knowledge of dead human anatomy is limited to the pictures in my EMT textbook.  It would have been an amazing experience to participate in a Gross Anatomy class, but they are usually reserved for medical students and those in related fields.


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## rhan101277 (Aug 12, 2008)

Yeah its just strange that that is a real dead person that used to be alive.  I think to be a cadaver you have to give your body to education.  I don't think they just take dead people and ship them off to colleges.  I mean I know some go there, but most go in the ground.


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## rhan101277 (Aug 12, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> It is not so much the size of the school rather the class itself. Cadavers are expensive, so most schools do not utilize human cadavers for entry level A & P. Usually, it is called Gross Anatomy and one will have to take a separate medical or human physiology course.
> 
> I was fortunate that I already had A & P I, II before entering a Gross Anatomy course.. (yes, most Universities will not accept both; rather just one or the other for the anatomy or physiology). I highly suggest if possible to get into one if you are truly serious about medicine. It is not for everyone, yet medicine is not either.
> 
> R/r 911



How helpful is it to know all of this information.  A&P I and II is tons of info, I don't see how anyone can remember all of the bones and muscles.  The bones are that bad I guess, but there are more muscles than bones.  I also feel if I know more info that a standard EMT-Basic, that people might think I am brown-nosing etc.  I just don't want do the standard course, I think a EMT-Basic should have a requirement of A&P I and II in addition to the class.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 12, 2008)

It is not "brown nosing" knowing one's job or profession. In fact, you will probably be disappointed on the lack of information you will receive. I know most students are expecting much more in the Basic EMT class, than what and can be presented. 

I am beginning to start team teaching Basic again this fall (Actually teaching at two institutions and work field full time). This will be the first time I will do such in a while. The reason is it is so simplistic and the fortunate part is no one knows if you make a mistake or not 

I have been asked to re-vamp a program more as a consultant type than just instruct. We are going to attempt some new techniques of education and training. Mainly enforcing the material from the book to be read at home prior to class. We (another EMS instructor) will briefly review and clarify any difficulties but do not plan on spending much time re-reviewing the content in the book. Rather we are attempting to give additional and more in-depth material, not located in the standard EMT text. Our personal feeling is anyone can read and should be able to absorb the Basic material from the texts. 

We do NOT believe in insulting reading from the texts or PowerPoint, and are attempting to reduce lecture time to very little. Rather emphasize a more hands on technique and study groups, so all objectives can and should be mastered. Yes, additional requirements such as Thesis and Research projects will be also included in the Basic EMT program. As well, professional dress will be required (no jeans, shorts, t-shirts, etc) and exceptions will only be allowed on lab dates. We are attempting to install professionalism from the beginning (something that is very lacking). 

Our (instructors) goal is that we really do not care, where or what your goals are. We presume that since you are in a Emergency Medical Technician course, that is what you are aiming at and then progressing upwards into the medical field. The EMT course was solely designed for that and nothing else. 

R/r 911


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## motownems (Aug 12, 2008)

rhan101277 said:


> Yeah its just strange that that is a real dead person that used to be alive.  I think to be a cadaver you have to give your body to education.  I don't think they just take dead people and ship them off to colleges.  I mean I know some go there, but most go in the ground.



Maybe they use urban outdoorsmen who have turned into popsicles??? And it isn’t like the body disappears there would still be pieces left to put in the ground when the college was finished.


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## jazminestar (Aug 12, 2008)

i go to a two of like 5 community colleges here in san diego, i was very fortunate that they have a contract with UCSD medical, who provides cadavers to our schools......we didn't have cadavers in my A&P class but i did in my human anatomy class and one of my schools does offer a human dissection class.......it's pretty cool


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## zacdav89 (Aug 12, 2008)

Colorado State University has been good about sharing its resources with others schools. One of our local high schools was able to bus its A&P class to their cadaver lab and they were able, as a class, to dissect the cadaver. I thought it was a great way to help bring more willing people in to the medical field.
 My   high school and my college A&P classes both used fetal pigs instead of cadavers.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 12, 2008)

motownems said:


> Maybe they use urban outdoorsmen who have turned into popsicles??? And it isn’t like the body disappears there would still be pieces left to put in the ground when the college was finished.



It is apparent that you have never witnessed many cadavers. They are used, re-used and then used again.. until there is just threads left. I know one of them (Mr. Dead Fred) was falling apart on us, I used to have to inflate his eyes (looked like raisins after time) and debris from others. Fortunately, I was able to get a somewhat "fresh" one mid-way that had not been even started on. 

Most cadavers are either cremated, buried, sanctioned out as parts, or "disposed of" as the wish of the donor. 

R/r 911


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## motownems (Aug 12, 2008)

guilty as charged R/r 911.  I was speaking though my hat as the saying goes <_<


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## firecoins (Aug 12, 2008)

A&P I & II were sufficiently supplied with models and other tools where I took the class.  In fact, the school had an entire lab set up for A&P I & II.

Got to an autposy as apart of the medic program.


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## mycrofft (Aug 13, 2008)

*Our nursing college gave up on cadavers.*

We got to go into the cadaver lab and see them up close as the med students took a breather. Really didn't make that much difference, as we had a knockout Anatomy teaching team, and Physiology was a seperate course. Brownish stiff organs and muscle failed to expand what I taught myself from the Merck Manual and Gray's Anatomy after lights out on fire duty while taking EMT-Ambulance. My two EMT instructors, Lance and Ernie, also tied the material back to anatomy.


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## rhan101277 (Aug 13, 2008)

firecoins said:


> A&P I & II were sufficiently supplied with models and other tools where I took the class.  In fact, the school had an entire lab set up for A&P I & II.
> 
> Got to an autposy as apart of the medic program.



I am speaking about EMT-B training, that it should include the requirement to take college level A&P I and II.  I mean the EMT-B book, from what I have seen, for the one I have isn't as in depth as the A&P is.  The EMT-B book just touches on the major arteries, veins, skeletal system, etc.  Don't open a EMT-B book and think its going to explain what a nephron does.  Its not going to tell you the difference between clear urine and concentrated yellow urine.  I didn't understand what all of you were talking about when you were saying pneumothorax.  I guess that word is a secret word for collapsed lung.  You don't want to go around reporting to the ER, that your PT has a collapsed lung, oh no they know what that means, just say pneumothorax left lateral or some such.  Anyhow the human body is very complicated to me and its amazing how much there is to it.


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## MagicTyler (Aug 13, 2008)

Our local university (Norther arizona university) has a high school senior cadaver lab. 25 seniors get to go and do the actual disecting and see the anatomy. I'm signing up this year, and hope to get in. The week lab is like 3 credits too...


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## traumateam1 (Aug 13, 2008)

I worked in a funeral home for a while a long time ago.. just so I could get over the whole dead body thing.. and while I was there I got to assist in many autposy and such. So I didn't take a class.. but I got my fair share of dead cut open bodies. It was a really great experience actually.. I enjoyed it, and it really prepaired me for the job.. because my first dead person wasn't on a call with the family freaking out at you to save their loved one...


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## rhan101277 (Aug 13, 2008)

Yeah I need to see some dead people so I can get over it as well.  I mean I have been to funerals and all.  One day we will all be dead people, and folks will be looking at us.  That is why I always wear funny boxer shorts and funny t-shirts as much as possible.  Although I am obviously not going to wear funny t-shirts to class.


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## BossyCow (Aug 13, 2008)

rhan101277 said:


> That is why I always wear funny boxer shorts and funny t-shirts as much as possible.



Were you standing in line behind me at the grocery store yesterday????


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## phunguy (Aug 14, 2008)

I was an embalmer for many years. My experience there has really helped me in this field so far...


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## traumateam1 (Aug 14, 2008)

Embalmer! thats the word I couldn't think of yesterday! I did a lot of that too.. I have no idea why I couldn't think of it yesterday... :unsure:


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