# Cave Rescue? Anyone dealt with it?



## Jon (Apr 4, 2012)

Has anyone ever been trained in Cave Rescue? What sort of training did you receive?

Does anyone have SOPs/SOGs for such a rescue?


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## Desette (Apr 5, 2012)

In my Province up here cave rescue is very similar to Search and Rescue and is mostly volunteer based. We have a group called ACRO, Alberta Cave Rescue Assocation, they get tasked the same to my knoweldge (through a tasking agency like a police service or park service) and then deploy their resources.

http://www.cancaver.ca/ACRO/

Most of the standards we have for cave and rope rescue come from British Columbia and if not the exact same very similar. 

http://www.cancaver.ca/bccr/

There are a few resources on those sites maybe that can help ^_^


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 5, 2012)

Jon said:


> Has anyone ever been trained in Cave Rescue? What sort of training did you receive?
> 
> Does anyone have SOPs/SOGs for such a rescue?



Ya Jon, my team use to be one of only 5 teams certified in CA for Mine & Cave.  Everything was regulated by MSHA.  Standards are high, training intense, regulations extreme on rescue.  I have been on one mine rescue, not something I am interested in.


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## Jon (Apr 6, 2012)

Mountain:

I wonder how similar cave vs. mine rescue is. There are some different risks and concerns for rescue, but the issues of distance and confined space are overarching in both.



The National Cave Rescue Commission is an organization of the National Speleological Society:
http://www.caves.org/commission/ncrc/national/

I asked this question because, until I recently started caving, I was unaware of how involved some of these rescues can be.

I've also seen a few recent news articles where organized Cave Rescue groups have been successful, and others where the local FD preformed the rescue.



Anyone ever been involved in such a rescue?


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 6, 2012)

Jon said:


> Mountain:
> 
> I wonder how similar cave vs. mine rescue is. There are some different risks and concerns for rescue, but the issues of distance and confined space are overarching in both.
> 
> ...



Mines, being man made, are theoretically more dangerous, but the potential for danger is similar in both.  From a MSHA and CalEMA standpoint, they are treated the same rescue-wise.  Cave Rescue and Mine Rescue are combined in CA as one discipline: Underground Rescue.  The idea is that if a rescue is needed, then some hazard exists or existed, so why treat them different?  Having Cave Rescue Teams and Mine Rescue Teams is viewed as odd here... when back-up resources are limited, why place a lesser trained team into an environment that could turn out to be more than they were capable of?  That is especially true in an area that has as many abandoned mines as caves (or more, like gold-rush CA).  Check to see who has jurisdiction over Cave Rescue where you go.  Whose training standard do they follow?  Training-wise, MSHA training is extensive, which is why Underground Teams are rare in CA.  The last time we requested one, it took nearly 16 hours to get them up to us.  But, again, that was a mine... I know cavers who have never had an issue... self rescue skills are a good thing to be 100% familiar with!!!


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## mycrofft (Apr 7, 2012)

Modern mines are designed for easy access and egress since they have to move ore out; this "breaks down" when they suffer a structural failure. Old broken down mines (like the so-called  "coyote holes " in Mountian Res-q's neck of the woods) can be tricky and dangerous. 

Caves can be *tortuous* and human occupancy or transport was never a consideration in their formation. Like mines, they can present hostile or deficient atmospheres, water; they can also have such niceties as inhalation diseases (guano lung and many types of fungi, for example) and a faunal ecosystem designed to convert any organic materials into fuel.

I'd say they each pose there own risks. I have no direct experience. We have had a number of posturer over the years who identified themselves as being mine-qualified.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 9, 2012)

Here are the state response guidelines for Underground (Mine and Cave), Jon, if they are of any interest:

http://www.calema.ca.gov/LawEnforcement/Pages/SAR Underground MA Guideline 11_11.pdf


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## kindofafireguy (Apr 13, 2012)

*Cave rescue?*

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


(sorry, couldn't help myself)


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## wildmed (Apr 20, 2012)

cave rescue is actually pretty different from mine rescue. MSHA is very very very regimented. 
In reality most of cave rescue is training people how to self extricate. I have a friend who is very involved in the caving/ cave rescue community and gave a lecture on it just a few days ago. Apparently here in CO there is only 1 "real" cave rescue every few years. There is also apparently some SAR teams looking to become MRA teams in the SE that have proposed certifying in cave rescue instead of avi/snow. Another thing to remember is that any cave rescue is going to require a huge multi agency response. 
 Here is a link to the colorado cave rescue network, alot of good info on here:
http://www.coloradocaverescue.org/


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