# We still haven't learned our lessons, have we?



## ffemt8978 (Jun 11, 2009)

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/296639.php

Taking pictures of patients again.:glare:


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## JPINFV (Jun 11, 2009)

If this BS doesn't stop soon, I can see agencies starting to adopt the Boston area transit authority (Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority, MBTA) zero tolerance policy towards cell phones. Anyone caught with a cell phone while on duty is suspended immediately on the first offense and terminated on the second. If anyone needs to get ahold of you, then they can contact dispatch or a supervisor. 

...and yes, news broke yesterday that they've already suspended one subway train driver after being caught with a blue tooth headset with his cellphone in his bag. The cell phone was off when they caught him.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 11, 2009)

Because cell phones are the only picture taking devices that people carry around.


I'm sure it has more to do with safety and working on the job, and not actually taking pictures.


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## JPINFV (Jun 11, 2009)

I can see it being done with any camera. Camera on duty, go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Yes, though, the issue in Boston is due to safety. My point was about the zero tolerance policy though, not the specifics around Boston's new policy or which devices are covered by it. Besides, cameras are essentially a standard feature on cell phones now a days.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 11, 2009)

Nah, still a bit extreme.

There are times when cameras are permitted for patient care.

There are times where a camera should be allowed when you have absolutely no calls, no pts, and are chilling around the rig.



Sure, having it might increase temptation for some, but suspending/firing someone just for possessing it is stupid.


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## Aidey (Jun 11, 2009)

I can't see them banning cell phones for us while on duty unless the agencies we work for start providing basic, no-camera versions for work use. In between calling dispatch, calling the supervisor, and the occasional call in for orders a cell phone is used for work purposes 3-5 times a shift between my partner and I.

For a while crews were carrying around cameras given to them by the company so they could take "at work" shots of each other to use for promotional stuff. There were rules about pts being visible and such, and as far as I know no one got in trouble for breaking them. 

As has been discussed before, taking pictures of industrial or motor vehicle accidents can help the doctors at the ED as they assess MOI. Some docs may not care, but I've had other say "did you get a picture" as I'm trying to describe the scene.


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## Sasha (Jun 11, 2009)

Sorry but any company that banned me from carrying a cell phone is not a company I'd want to work for.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jun 11, 2009)

There are some EMS agencies that are using cell phones for dispatching.  They use a cell phones e-mail address (your number @ you providers routing address) to send out text messages through e-mail from a dispatchers computer.  So far, this method seems to have an advantage over pagers since everyone has a cell phone already and the infrastructure is there for this use.  We, in SAR, are trying to transition over to this method too.

The point is that cell phones are here to stay and have their uses in Emergency Services.  They can also be misused.  Ihe issue of taking pictures on scene has been beaten to death.  While some may say that they have their place from an educational standpoint, these stories we read about have nothing to do with education... just dumb responders.  If you have time on a call to forgo pt care and take pictures than we need to take you out back and shoot you.  Ban Cameras... but unless you have an alternative to cell phones considerig their present use in EMS, then I agree with Sasha; I would not work for an agency that was so far out in left field that they would fire me for using a cell phone _in the course of performing my duties_.

If your agency condones the use of pictures on scene for whatever reason, then those pictures should be considered medical information, just like a PCR.  Who gets to see that PCR?  Medical Staff dirrectly associated with the care of that patient (people who will uphold confidentiality).  How these pics become entertainment online means that someone is violating the patient-Medical Provider relationship... FIRE THEM and get them away from EMS!!!


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## emtfarva (Jun 11, 2009)

you as long as you use it properly a cell phone camera is a good thing. I use it on MVC to take pics of the vehicles. with my cell phone I can email it to the doc, and make it a perment part of the pt's chart. i also delete the pics after the call. and I ask permission from the police before I shoot the cars.


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## Sasha (Jun 11, 2009)

> Ban Cameras... but unless you have an alternative to cell phones considerig their present use in EMS, then I agree with Sasha; I would not work for an agency that was so far out in left field that they would fire me for using a cell phone in the course of performing my duties.



It's not even in the course of performing your duties... There's a lot of down time in EMS. I tend to text or fiddle around on my phone. 

I also like to be able to be reached, immediatly, by various family members who are old and sick and refuse to call 911 for anything. My grandma has been in and out of the hospital, my mom has uncontrolled diabetes and hep C. If there was an emergency, and they had to call dispatch to get ahold of me, at my old company they could be put on hold for upwards of 10 minutes before they got to speak to someone. I had a partner who didn't get the message that his mother had been rushed to the hospital until 30 minutes after his wife had called the office.

Also if the company didn't allow cell phones so employees left them in their POV, would they be held liable if their car was broken into and the cell phone stolen from the glove box? Probably not.

Don't punish an entire group because some idiots can't seem to be professional. 

Sorry, no cell phone, no sasha.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 11, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Sorry, no cell phone, no sasha.



Ban cell phones!


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## JPINFV (Jun 11, 2009)

Sasha, why can't those same arguments be made by the carmen of the MBTA?


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## Sasha (Jun 11, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Sasha, why can't those same arguments be made by the carmen of the MBTA?



They can if they want to, I'm not pursuing a job with them, so they can argue their own arguments.


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 11, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Sorry but any company that banned me from carrying a cell phone is not a company I'd want to work for.



Would you work at a ER that prohibited private phone calls or carrying personal.cell phones? What is really so important that you have to have a cell phone (not including the companies)? Your on their time clock .... Want to take personal phone calls, when you clock out for lunch... etc. 

We have a no picture policy. You take picture your fired. We even destroyed the camera on all company cell phones prior to distributing them. 

R/r 911


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## Sasha (Jun 11, 2009)

> Would you work at a ER that prohibited private phone calls or carrying personal.cell phones? What is really so important that you have to have a cell phone (not including the companies)? Your on their time clock .... Want to take personal phone calls, when you clock out for lunch... etc.



Prohibit from carrying? Yes. No private phone calls? I'd work for them if they make the exception for emergencies or you can get directly ahold of someone by calling the desk phone and it's not a bunch of relayed messages. Did you not read my post? I have stated that I have old, sick family members who are adament against calling 911, if they don't feel well or need to go to the hospital, they call. I'm not going to miss that phone call because some person who shouldn't be in EMS takes pictures.


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## Tincanfireman (Jun 11, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> What is really so important that you have to have a cell phone (not including the companies)?


 
My grey hair is showing again, but I remember a time when we had a Motorola two-way in the unit, and that was it. No portables, no cell phones, and the AM-FM radio in the truck was disconnected so we wouldn't miss any calls! We didn't have any stations to worry about, 'cause we sat in parking lots for the duration of our twelve hour shifts. This was at a metropolitan Detroit 911/IFT service in the early 80's (Fleet/Paramed, in case you were wondering). No we didn't have to walk to work in the snow, five miles uphill both ways, ^_^ but it's an indicator of how times have changed. No disrespect to anyone, but in this day and age, I'm just glad to have a job (actually, a full-time and a part-time gig) and the physical ability to do them.

P.S. to Sasha; you have a special circumstance, (and my sympathy as well; that's a tough one) and I was not directing my comments to you or any particular person. Just taking a side trip down memory lane...


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## el Murpharino (Jun 11, 2009)

Am I reading this wrong or did this take place in a hospital vice prehospital?  Not that it matters much...and to be honest I don't see why people want to take pictures of their patients.  I mean you'd most likely be touching your phone with the same gloved hand you touched your patient with...sheesh.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 12, 2009)

el Murpharino said:


> Am I reading this wrong or did this take place in a hospital vice prehospital?  Not that it matters much...and to be honest I don't see why people want to take pictures of their patients.  I mean you'd most likely be touching your phone with the same gloved hand you touched your patient with...sheesh.



It was a hospital.


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## Hockey (Jun 12, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> It was a hospital.





Then whats the big deal? Its the hospitals garbage to handle, not us street pounders


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## Hockey (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Sorry, no cell phone, no sasha.



I'd be sad





Sasha couldn't call me anymore either...


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> I'd be sad
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sasha would never call you in the first place!


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## boingo (Jun 12, 2009)

We have a policy in place that cell phones cannot be used from time of dispatch to clearing the call, with the exception of call related usage, i.e. social services, medical examiner, off-line consult...No pictures period, with the exception of department issued camera's to supervisors, primarily to document damage to vehicles due to accidents.  The card from the camera is removed and sent to our professional standards division who clear the card and return it to service.  

I think this policy is reasonable.  Driving while talking on the phone is wrong, however removing them from the providers would be a bit overkill, in my opinion.


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## willbeflight (Jun 13, 2009)

boingo said:


> We have a policy in place that cell phones cannot be used from time of dispatch to clearing the call, with the exception of call related usage, i.e. social services, medical examiner, off-line consult...No pictures period, with the exception of department issued camera's to supervisors, primarily to document damage to vehicles due to accidents.  The card from the camera is removed and sent to our professional standards division who clear the card and return it to service.
> 
> I think this policy is reasonable.  Driving while talking on the phone is wrong, however removing them from the providers would be a bit overkill, in my opinion.




That's a good policy.  I agree with that.


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## VentMedic (Jun 13, 2009)

For the hospital, we are not to have a cellphone, except the ones given to us for inhospital communication , on us at all, PERIOD.

For Flight, we are not to have a personal cellphone turned on from the moment we get a standby to take-off and throughout the entire call until we are cleared back at the station.  If we are on call from the hospital ED, then hospital rules will apply.


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## Hal9000 (Jun 15, 2009)

*No camera phones... *

I keep my cellphone at work.  However, I've never cared for newfangled phones.  I only need it to talk to people with, especially dispatch, as our company phones seem to exist only in writing.  My phone is an old LG phone from before time.  It broke about a month ago and I had a pain finding a new used one like it.  Anyway, I got one just like it for free.  It doesn't have a camera and I don't text nor even have texting.  So it's safe even if a whacker finds it.   Model lg-ux4270 baby. 












I really don't feel that strongly about it, but I do like my phone on LDTs.


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## Sasha (Jun 15, 2009)

Hal9000 said:


> I keep my cellphone at work.  However, I've never cared for newfangled phones.  I only need it to talk to people with, especially dispatch, as our company phones seem to exist only in writing.  My phone is an old LG phone from before time.  It broke about a month ago and I had a pain finding a new used one like it.  Anyway, I got one just like it for free.  It doesn't have a camera and I don't text nor even have texting.  So it's safe even if a whacker finds it.   Model lg-ux4270 baby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That phone looks like the phone I had when I was 13...


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## Hal9000 (Jun 15, 2009)

Sasha said:


> That phone looks like the phone I had when I was 13...



And you _got rid of it?  _ How could you? It even has a color screen.  The best technology of 1999 baby!


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