# I'm blind, deaf, and stupid.



## seanm028 (Dec 28, 2008)

I hosted a CPR/AED class for my dorm back in November.  I figured that since I was hosting it, I would hang around and take the class, even though my CPR card is current.

Anyway, the instructor was talking about a local high school where a kid went down during football practice.  MDs later determined it was an MI.  The coach got the AED, but was unable to figure out how to work it...

Yes, that's right.  Despite the drawings, and the written instructions, and the loud voice telling you exactly what to do... nobody there could figure it out.  By the time EMS arrived, the kid no longer had a shockable rhythm and was declared dead at the hospital.

Has anyone ever heard of someone being unable to figure out how to use an AED?

As a sidenote, the company that was providing the training heard about this and held a free class for all the school's staff.


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## VentMedic (Dec 28, 2008)

seanm028 said:


> Has anyone ever heard of someone being unable to figure out how to use an AED?


When the adrenaline gets pumping I've seen the most experienced of providers, EMT(P)s, forget how to use the simplest of equipment or remember protocols. 

If it is a piece of equipment that one has not practiced with a couple of times, it is very easy to flounder blindly at a scene or forget basic safety rules. That can apply to both the healthcare provider and the layperson. 

Also, you don't know how much the instructor beefed up the story to make a point.


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## seanm028 (Dec 28, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> When the adrenaline gets pumping I've seen the most experienced of providers, EMT(P)s, forget how to use the simplest of equipment or remember protocols.
> 
> If it is a piece of equipment that one has not practiced with a couple of times, it is very easy to flounder blindly at a scene or forget basic safety rules. That can apply to both the healthcare provider and the layperson.



Fair enough.  I would think that the instructions from the AED would clear things up, but then again I've never had to use an AED under high-stress conditions.



VentMedic said:


> Also, you don't know how much the instructor beefed up the story to make a point.



Very good point.


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## Code 3 (Dec 28, 2008)

seanm028 said:


> Has anyone ever heard of someone being unable to figure out how to use an AED?



I've personally never come across this type of story, however I definitely believe it has happened before.


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## rescuepoppy (Dec 28, 2008)

This may not be so much a case of not knowing how to use a piece of equipment as it is a case of tunnel vision. In the first place most hih school coaches have spent so much time with their players that they are almost like their own kids so there is one stress factor. Secondly he was working with a piece of equipment he probably had no touched since his initial training, another stress. Also like most people not involved in emergency services he was unable to get into the emergency mode (for lack of a better term) that those of us who have been around a while can. I can see how he was having problems with the AED.
   This is why we have constant in-service training. To keep skills up on equipment and procedures we don't use often.


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## FF894 (Dec 28, 2008)

I could see one or two coaches getting a little flustered based on what everyone else has said, sure thats possible.  Mind you, they are not in this business and probably have zero desire to be in that sitatuation.  Kind of hard to believe that with many people there that would happen.  Including the students - in my area they receive CPR/AED training in 6th, 8th, and 10th grade.  

On a side note, thats why coaches, teachers, etc. should be recieving training at the beginning of each season.  _Quality_ training.  Spending a few hours watching the movie again does not prepare them for the unthinkable event such as described.  Who knows if their _approprate_ actions would have made a difference, but I'm sure they wished they had taken the CPR training more serious.  I don't mean to sound as if they did not take it seriously.  As an instructor that teaches 50+ classes a year, I can tell you that people who are forced to be in a class do not take it as seriously as someone who is taking the class because of a personal story or desire.


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## Vonny (Dec 28, 2008)

*Aed*

I teach Public Access Aed and here in Ireland people must re certify every 6 months to keep their certification up to date. 

Most people who come to re certify need to be told from scratch what to do, its like they never saw an AED before. This is scary. especially since there is now a government scheme to train community cardiac first responders and they only need to certify every two years.

But the scary thing is not limited to the community responders. 

We had a certified provider level respond to a drowning during the summer to a 49 yo female who had been in the sea 45 minutes after getting caught up in a rip current while surfing, the community AED (Philips HeartStart FRx)was deployed and it called for a shock but the responder could not hear the AED commands because of rescue chopper noise so she did not administer the shock. 

She was holding the AED near her ear listening , which would  IMO interfere with the analysis. but then the paramedics took over. I was not present for this, it is what I have been told.  Who knows if this lady could have been saved if confusion did not rule the moment.  I am told hypothermia was not an issue.

Now I have a lot of experience with AEDs from a training point of view, it gives very loud commands that even a blind person can follow and it also has a flashing RED button when a shock is advised so even if it is dark and noisy you would know to clear and give the shock.

But fear and adrenalin can freeze even the most trained person.
The patient was airlifted but did not make it.


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## TgerFoxMark (Dec 28, 2008)

i have seen an EMT-P forget how to tie a sling. this was back when i was on a ride along during training. it pumped me up.


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## BossyCow (Dec 29, 2008)

I think it was ARC who did the study that showed without use or refresher CPR skills fade after a year. Part of what might have been happening here was fear of doing something wrong and making things worse. Any class on AED needs to really emphasize that the unit will not shock someone who does not need it.


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## Vonny (Dec 29, 2008)

"Any class on AED needs to really emphasize that the unit will not shock someone who does not need it."

This is very true!


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## KEVD18 (Dec 29, 2008)

i used to teach with a very famous cardiologist. guy has chaired the aha's ecc twice. helped to design the zoll aed+. he did an expiriment. he brough home a dummy and an aed and gave them to his (iirc) 7 year old daughter. she had never seen this thing before and had it up and shocking in <2min. of course, theres no adrenalin(other than the usualy 7 year old energy level).


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## Jeremy89 (Dec 30, 2008)

TgerFoxMark said:


> i have seen an EMT-P forget how to tie a sling. this was back when i was on a ride along during training. it pumped me up.



Haha, 

that was my instructor during our class last year!! 

Couldn't remember how the hell to tie it from a triangular bandage.  Between the 6 of us, we figured it out


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## FF894 (Dec 30, 2008)

Vonny said:


> "Any class on AED needs to really emphasize that the unit will not shock someone who does not need it."
> 
> This is very true!



YES!  I started another thread about lack of PAD/CPR training while on vacation and one of the excuses the manager of the resort gave me is they had to "leave the AED in the back room because kids could get a hold of it and shock their friends.  It would be crazy to leave it on the wall where people could see it and take it." 

And she was the *ONE* person trained to use it on the resort with 6 hotels, health spas, golf courses, sporting events, etc. etc. with what thousands and thousands of people!!!


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## seanm028 (Dec 30, 2008)

FF894 said:


> YES!  I started another thread about lack of PAD/CPR training while on vacation and one of the excuses the manager of the resort gave me is they had to "leave the AED in the back room because kids could get a hold of it and shock their friends.  It would be crazy to leave it on the wall where people could see it and take it."
> 
> And she was the *ONE* person trained to use it on the resort with 6 hotels, health spas, golf courses, sporting events, etc. etc. with what thousands and thousands of people!!!



Yeah, reading your post is what reminded me of the story.


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