# Saudi Red Crescent Authority



## WTEngel

Has anybody here worked with the SRCA?

I have seen their job postings, and it is my understanding that they are starting the first state run Helicopter EMS system in the next month (December 2009.)

I have heard they are flying MD 209s, but that is about all the information I know. I was hoping someone who works on the ground over there could provide me with some more details.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## WTEngel

I meant to say that they were flying MD 902s, not 209's... Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## usafmedic45

WTEngel said:


> I meant to say that they were flying MD 902s, not 209's... Sorry for the confusion.


I'll send out an e-mail to a Saudi trauma surgeon I know fairly well.  I'll report back if he knows anything about it.  Anything in particular you want to know?


----------



## falcon-18

WTEngel said:


> Has anybody here worked with the SRCA?
> 
> I have seen their job postings, and it is my understanding that they are starting the first state run Helicopter EMS system in the next month (December 2009.)
> 
> I have heard they are flying MD 209s, but that is about all the information I know. I was hoping someone who works on the ground over there could provide me with some more details.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



First: Welcome to Saudi Arabia and we welcome you to our beloved country and all who want to visit or work in Saudi Arabia
I am sorry for my tardiness. I have read your topic for some time but want to respond to you with answers are correct.


I want to tell you that nothing in the Saudi Red Crescent ambulance helicopter jets now. And that at the beginning of operation nearly two years ago fell one and all of its crew died and after this case, stop by ambulance helicopters. Now, a new ambulatory Bdonzam and I want to show you that in the event of a new news that I will make sure I tell you


I'll tell you what he said, chief operating officer, Dr. Self / Bayouk (It will be used by 28 helicopters, as well as four to six medium-range aircraft to cover the various regions of the Kingdom and coverage of the new service over the next four years, and that the service will start with six aircraft as a first stage this year in both from the Central Region (Riyadh) and the Western Region (Mecca).

He added that the number of crew per aircraft would range from 8 to 10 people, as well as air ambulance, as it is scheduled to be work in the morning followed by the evening after months of starting the service, pointing out that the crew got disadvantages courses are eligible for this work established by the Commission According to regulations in force internationally and the Civil Aviation Authority in the Kingdom)
http://www.aleqt.com/2009/10/24/article_292248.html

that is only what I know. 

Sorry for the delay

thanks 

falcon-18
omar


----------



## ExpatMedic0

The Saudi Red Cresent looks like a cool job, but I don't know how I feel about giving up beer.


----------



## Jon

schulz said:


> The Saudi Red Cresent looks like a cool job, but I don't know how I feel about giving up beer.


Or freedom of worship, or many of the other things we take for granted here in the USA.


----------



## Aerin-Sol

schulz said:


> The Saudi Red Cresent looks like a cool job, but I don't know how I feel about giving up beer.



Yeah, as a queer woman I would never work in Saudi Arabia. 
Do they even allow women in their ambulance services?


----------



## WTEngel

Thanks for the reply Falcon, I am definitely excited to be coming to KSA and partnering with the nationals to get the helicopter EMS system up and running. I received my contract today, and they are offering me a position as a flight medic. Once I get my medical and visa clearance, I should be on a plane. I am thinking around the 1st of the year...

Now, as far as females working in EMS...

I have heard different rumors about different hospital based ambulance services considering female staff for Ob-Gyn calls and other types of calls where a female patient being treated by a male practitioner would not be possible with respect to Islamic religious and moral beliefs.

Now as far as going over there as a "queer", like you so eloquently put it, that would not be possible given their moral stance on homosexuality.

The Saudi Red Crescent seems to be trying to put together a really top notch helicopter EMS system, with up to 28 helicopters nation wide and 6 fixed wing ambulances. The pay is competitive and from what my contract says, they seem to be treating their expats well. I am definitely enthusiastic to get over there and learn as much as I can about the culture while helping those in need. Definitely a once in a lifetime experience...

Anybody else in the application process?


----------



## Aerin-Sol

> have heard different rumors about different hospital based ambulance services considering female staff for Ob-Gyn calls and other types of calls where a female patient being treated by a male practitioner would not be possible with respect to Islamic religious and moral beliefs.



Would they have dedicated ambulance drivers for them?



WTEngel said:


> Now as far as going over there as a "queer", like you so eloquently put it, that would not be possible given their moral stance on homosexuality.



Is there something ineloquent about the way I identify? It would be possible, just unpleasant, just as going there as a woman would be.


----------



## Seaglass

Aerin-Sol said:


> Do they even allow women in their ambulance services?



I don't actually know, but I think it would depend on whether you were serving actual Saudis or the expatriate communities hosted by oil companies. The latter tend to import their own services, and are supposed to be quite Western, so I wouldn't be too surprised if those had their own EMS which hired and used female EMTs.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I know the UAE uses female Paramedics for 911, in fact they have there own UAE female paramedic program.
in terms of SRCA, not sure.
In terms of being queer in the middle east... I think that would be an even greater challenge than me going out with out beer for a year. ;-)


----------



## Sweety

No problem having sisters here ;-) .  You will find there are many people in Saudi who drink and play... just have to know where to look

Yes I am in Saudi.

Look carefuly @ contracts by Red cescent they are known to change things are you have landed!!!

Bye Y'all


----------



## WTEngel

What changes do they make on arrival? Compensation? Living?

What company are you with in Saudi right now?


----------



## alelkins

*Srca*

I am awaiting the offer letter, after having spoken with Dr. Nakity and discussing preliminary issues. I have heard that the "Flight Paramedic" position involves very little flight and lots of ground pounding. I also wonder what the average shift looks like in regards to operations and equipment.


----------



## WTEngel

What gave you the impression that it was mostly ground pounding. Based on what I have seen, they are purchasing 28 helicopters and 6 PC 12 fixed wing ambulances over the next 5 years. I don't know why they would be doing all of that if they intended to put most of the flight medics on the ground.

I received my offer letter and other documents last week and am currently waiting for my visa. Based on what I have heard, they may hire you and extend a conditional job offer as a flight medic, but you still have to go through a skills test and interview with the flight supervisor once you are in country. If they don't like you for flight, they will put you on a regular ground unit. Also, from what I know, there are currently only 3 other western expats on the ground over there.

It is nice to hear from someone else going over. What nationality are you? I see you are in Afghanistan now, are you an American contractor?


----------



## alelkins

Impression from hearsay in the international medic community...nothing more. I too read about the proposed fleet purchase and am excited to have the opportunnity to work in an MD 900 series platform. It will be a BIG change from the Bell 206 I am accustomed to.

Yes, I am an American contractor currently on assignment. The money is great but I miss aeromedical, and my family. Looking forward to sleeping in a real bed with my wife every night again. Not real wild about not wearing shorts in the middle east, but it's a small sacrifice, I suppose. Anything else you can share about the working environment?


----------



## WTEngel

I wouldn't listen to the hearsay, I think they are really doing the program right. They attempted to start with 2 helicopters a few years back and had a crash, which set them back a little, but this time they are going to try to be FAR 135 compliant, hiring American pilots with pretty extensive experience, using more experienced crews, etc.

The MD 902 airframe is awesome for EMS. Certainly larger than the 206, and the NOTAR is safe and quiet. I also like the idea of having no tail rotor when working with inexperienced ground crews and locals. I am currently working off of a Sikorsky S76 B airframe here stateside, so I really have nowhere to go but smaller. The cabin configuration on the 902 is similar to the EC 145, which I like. All in all I am really excited to see what they have going, and also knowing I will be one of the first on the ground over there and may have a hand in shaping the program is exciting also.

So when are you hoping to deploy by? I am shooting for early to mid January, if I don't see any bumps in the road to getting my visa.


----------



## alelkins

ASAP...there are issues with my current gig, but thats another story. I'm told I have to come back stateside and go to Saudi from there because of the visa, so I'm looking a while regardless.

Have you seen a contract? Have any intel on the job itself?


----------



## WTEngel

Check your PM.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

do you know if they will take entry level medics for ground ops? There is no DOD clearance for this right?


----------



## WTEngel

Look up SRCA EMS and see what the requirements are. This is not on a military base, so no there is no DoD clearance required. You are basically performing the same duties you do in the states, just in a foreign country where no one speaks your language.


----------



## Sweety

Hi y'all

I am in Riyadh, KSA. I am a Critical Care Nurse and have EMS experience EMT-P, currently working at one of the hospitals. I knew some of the expats working in the Red crescent in Riyadh last year. There are more than 3 expats working for them from South African, American, Australian and German. Do you know or have contact with any of the guys already there? Best to get in contact as they will have the best advice on what it is really like.


----------



## WTEngel

I knew there was more than 3 total expats working for SRCA, I had heard that there were only 3 from the United States however.

I do not have contact with any expats who have worked or are working there, but if you could forward me their info in PM or forward my info to them, that would be awesome. What hospital are you at in KSA? Have you heard anything about the flight program?

Thanks for the reply, it is nice to actually talk to someone on the ground over there!


----------



## rhousewa

*Srca*

I too have just been offered a contract from Dr. Nakity.  He seems to be an open man but I find myself having to explain my questions a lot.  Get in touch and lets compare notes.  Jeff


----------



## ExpatMedic0

rhouse, I am also now in contact with this guy. Not to get off subject but I am down in Portland and went to medic school in Vancouver WA, Did you happen to go to the same program. I had some people from spokane in my class.

In other news I am getting all my paper work in order for RC saudi, still feeling it out.


----------



## alelkins

My paperwork pack is coming FedEx so my paperwork journey is just beginning. FedeEx doesnt deliver to Afghanistan so it's going home, them the wife will send to me...


----------



## Judy

WTEngel said:


> What gave you the impression that it was mostly ground pounding. Based on what I have seen, they are purchasing 28 helicopters and 6 PC 12 fixed wing ambulances over the next 5 years. I don't know why they would be doing all of that if they intended to put most of the flight medics on the ground.
> 
> I received my offer letter and other documents last week and am currently waiting for my visa. Based on what I have heard, they may hire you and extend a conditional job offer as a flight medic, but you still have to go through a skills test and interview with the flight supervisor once you are in country. If they don't like you for flight, they will put you on a regular ground unit. Also, from what I know, there are currently only 3 other western expats on the ground over there.
> 
> It is nice to hear from someone else going over. What nationality are you? I see you are in Afghanistan now, are you an American contractor?




Hello All
My husband has been talking with Dr Nakity too.  He is a intensive care flight paramedic in Australia.  Can you tell me about the general package offered in your contracts and the length of the contract.  Have your visa's and travel arrangements been sorted.  Is your accom sorted and if so where is it?  Do you know anything about living costs and utilities.  If you have wife is she going with you?  Any other info any of you are happy to share would be appreciated.
Judy


----------



## rhousewa

One of the things I have found is that they do not want to give a lot of information until an offer is made.  Dr Nakity did give me a wage scale based on my experience in a phone call though and he has been helpful as long as he understands what I am asking for.  Contract is one year starting when you arrive in Saudi sign the contract.  It is then renewable if both parties agree and is progressive with experience and or time served.  They will give a housing allowance if you do not stay in their compound which they advise you to choose.  Dr. Nakity stated that his utility costs are less than 100/month but did not say if that was 100.00 US or SAR.  He went on to say that the compound has private space for each family and the cost of living would be less than what I pay here in the states.  Overtime is available at time and a half if you want it.  I have gotten very sketchy numbers of any average call volumes for a unit or for the system.  They said that I will be working with an EMT-I on the unit and we will have a translator/cultural advisor with us also.  I do not intend to take my wife with me but she may fly over and visit using the allotment of the 3 dependant plane tickets they allow.  Make sure that you confirm this before you agree and send a letter of consent to their offer.  Hope this helps.  Jeff


----------



## McLenin

*Hi.*

I am so happy I was able to find you guys. I am a paramedic/ff from Cincinnati. I received the job offer and document package. People that are going, we need to stay in touch!!! I am very skeptical about the whole trip, its so far away.


----------



## NJmedic3250

WTEngel said:


> Thanks for the reply Falcon, I am definitely excited to be coming to KSA and partnering with the nationals to get the helicopter EMS system up and running. I received my contract today, and they are offering me a position as a flight medic. Once I get my medical and visa clearance, I should be on a plane. I am thinking around the 1st of the year...
> 
> Now, as far as females working in EMS...
> 
> I have heard different rumors about different hospital based ambulance services considering female staff for Ob-Gyn calls and other types of calls where a female patient being treated by a male practitioner would not be possible with respect to Islamic religious and moral beliefs.
> 
> Now as far as going over there as a "queer", like you so eloquently put it, that would not be possible given their moral stance on homosexuality.
> 
> The Saudi Red Crescent seems to be trying to put together a really top notch helicopter EMS system, with up to 28 helicopters nation wide and 6 fixed wing ambulances. The pay is competitive and from what my contract says, they seem to be treating their expats well. I am definitely enthusiastic to get over there and learn as much as I can about the culture while helping those in need. Definitely a once in a lifetime experience...
> 
> Anybody else in the application process?


Hey WTEngel. Just got my visa packet and official offer in the mail. Ill be heading over to Riyadh in early 2010 I'm guessing. Depending on how long it takes to get everything processed. I'm pretty excited to see what sort of experience I will be presented with. Do you know anyone working there already?


----------



## NJmedic3250

Hey, I'm new to this forum. I didn't even realize there was 2 other pages of discussion.


----------



## NJmedic3250

I too am a little skeptical about the position. There is a lot I am still unsure about (no matter how many questions I ask Dr. Nakity). Main thing is the living conditions. I have trying to figure out what the accommodations are going to be like. Is it going to be a western compound or is it going to be an apartment building in the middle of the city? Also, I would like to hear everyone's opinion on their offer. Happy with it? Confident in the position? Personally I am on the fence about the whole thing. The "conditional flight position" was extended to myself as well. However, I have no prior aeromedical experience. I am wondering if this is a recruitment tactic to obtain the manpower they are looking for in a potentially undesirable job.


----------



## Sweety

Hi y'all

Just to make it clear I do not work fot the red crescent. I have met some of the guys that work for them on the chase cars. I work in one of the hospitals as a RN however am EMT-P certified. The guys I know have said the work is most trauma (road), they work with a Saudi EMT who has minimal or "some" training. I don't know about translator or cultural advisor...bit far fetched. Wow if they fly your family out to Riyadh for a visit that would be great. Most employers only do it if the family is staying. Check that point.  I know they have all complained about protocols or lack of and equipment available. They are a pretty good bunch of guys, social and friendly (some cute too gals)!!! I am hoping to meet the US guys soon, as yet I haven't had the opportunity.

Living here is different to the US and remember it is not the US, things are done different. Be opened minded or you wont survive. It is cheaper to live depending on lifestyle. I do not drive because I don't have the Saudi requirement... A Penis!!! The roads are good the road users...not!! I am single so do not know costs for schools although friends say it is expensive. A common practice here is that Saudis like to glamourize things and won't give you all the facts, tell half truths etc. Do your reading on the www and try and contact people that have been here before or are here presently. I don't know if any of the guys use this forum though. When us females are allowed to work on the cars I will consider applying until then I like my ICU.


----------



## Judy

rhousewa said:


> One of the things I have found is that they do not want to give a lot of information until an offer is made.  Dr Nakity did give me a wage scale based on my experience in a phone call though and he has been helpful as long as he understands what I am asking for.  Contract is one year starting when you arrive in Saudi sign the contract.  It is then renewable if both parties agree and is progressive with experience and or time served.  They will give a housing allowance if you do not stay in their compound which they advise you to choose.  Dr. Nakity stated that his utility costs are less than 100/month but did not say if that was 100.00 US or SAR.  He went on to say that the compound has private space for each family and the cost of living would be less than what I pay here in the states.  Overtime is available at time and a half if you want it.  I have gotten very sketchy numbers of any average call volumes for a unit or for the system.  They said that I will be working with an EMT-I on the unit and we will have a translator/cultural advisor with us also.  I do not intend to take my wife with me but she may fly over and visit using the allotment of the 3 dependant plane tickets they allow.  Make sure that you confirm this before you agree and send a letter of consent to their offer.  Hope this helps.  Jeff



Thanks Jeff.  My husband is at the stage of gathering his documentation in (hopeful) preparation of an offer.  If you or anyone else has info to share I would be grateful to learn of it.  Wouldn't it be exciting if we all got to meet one day in SA.
Regards
Judy


----------



## Judy

rhousewa said:


> I too have just been offered a contract from Dr. Nakity.  He seems to be an open man but I find myself having to explain my questions a lot.  Get in touch and lets compare notes.  Jeff



Me again Jeff.  Could I (on behalf of husband) be privy to the notes you shared.  Do I send a private email??  Or is this too forward.
Judy


----------



## WTEngel

NJmedic3250 said:


> I too am a little skeptical about the position. There is a lot I am still unsure about (no matter how many questions I ask Dr. Nakity). Main thing is the living conditions. I have trying to figure out what the accommodations are going to be like. Is it going to be a western compound or is it going to be an apartment building in the middle of the city? Also, I would like to hear everyone's opinion on their offer. Happy with it? Confident in the position? Personally I am on the fence about the whole thing. The "conditional flight position" was extended to myself as well. However, I have no prior aeromedical experience. I am wondering if this is a recruitment tactic to obtain the manpower they are looking for in a potentially undesirable job.



As far as the conditional flight position is concerned, I know for a fact that they have purchased new helicopters and entered into a long term contract for the purchase of 28 helicopters over the next 5 years. You can do some research on google and actually find the news articles from Saudi Arabia discussing this subject. Also, I have spoken with a pilot who has been working with the recruitment company that is securing the pilots for this position (Action Aviation.)

Now, the purpose for making the flight position conditional is two fold. First, I currently work for a flight service, and getting the opportunity to evaluate people's skills and abilities before putting them on a helicopter is imperative. I would not want to work on a bird with someone before I got to know them clinically. There is a lot of trust and team work that goes in to aeromedical calls, because the risk is greater and the patient's are more critical than ground transports. The second reason probably has to do with the fact that we all know someone can look great on paper, and then when you see them in person, you realize there resume may have a lot of credentials, but no real substance. Anyone who has worked in EMS long enough to qualify for a flight position has worked with the "book smart" paramedic who doesn't have common sense to save his/her own life. The conditional flight position is the safest way to do it, and frankly, I wouldn't go any other way.

Dr. Nakity is a recruiter, and the situation on the ground is fluid. Combine that with a slight language barrier, and I can understand why it is hard for him to confidently answer questions. Also, he doesn't live in the compound, he wouldn't know what it is like. The compound is brand new. We will be the first to live there.

I encourage everyone to visit www.emssaudiarabia.com and check the FAQ page. It has been updated in the last two weeks with some great information.


----------



## WTEngel

Judy said:


> Me again Jeff.  Could I (on behalf of husband) be privy to the notes you shared.  Do I send a private email??  Or is this too forward.
> Judy



Jeff, I am happy to answer everyone's questions, but I get tired of repeating myself. Feel free to share my e mails to you if you like. If anyone has any questions I haven't answered I am happy to answer those also.

I am not the know all end all about the SRCA, but I do seem to be the furthest along in the process amongst all of us here. I also have the unique perspective of talking to a few guys on the other half of the aeromedical side, Action Aviation. Action Aviation is the company who is supplying the helicopters and also headhunting for the pilots to fly them. One of the pilots I currently fly with put me in touch with his personal friend, who is in talks with Action Aviation for a pilot contract. He gave me some good information about how the safety and all was going to be implemented for the flight crews. It doesn't have much to do with our (medical personnel) contracts, but it really put me at ease knowing that they are really putting together a tight safe operation.

FYI, they are expanding the ground service significantly (from 60 stations to 200 in the next 5 years I believe) so it should be nice for you guys who qualified for the flight service but don't have any flight experience to know that you have a safety to fall back on. It would suck to leave your job here and get over there, find out you can't cut it on the helicopter, and then be sent back to nothing. At least you can work the ground over there.

Check out www.flickr.com and search "saudi red crescent". There is a German expat who has posted quite a few pictures from his trip over there, I don't know him personally, and the captions are in German, but it looks like he had fun, and it looks like they have mostly new equipment.

Cheers!


----------



## WTEngel

McLenin said:


> I am so happy I was able to find you guys. I am a paramedic/ff from Cincinnati. I received the job offer and document package. People that are going, we need to stay in touch!!! I am very skeptical about the whole trip, its so far away.



It is a huge adventure and definitely taking a risk leaving your home and all here in America. I am super excited and I can't wait to get over there.

As with anything, I really have a feeling this job is what you make of it. I am the type who can make friends anywhere and I can have fun as long as I am in good company.


----------



## WTEngel

Sorry for the multiple posts, but as soon as I answer one post, I see another.

I saw somebody mentioned that you will be paired with a Saudi EMT (or EMT-I) and also a driver and cultural advisor. 

I am under the impression that the EMT partner and the driver/cultural advisor/translator are one in the same. The chase cars are staffed with a paramedic (expat) and a Saudi national who is certified as an EMT or EMT-I who can translate, drive, and keep his EMT partner out of trouble when it comes to culturally sensitive situations.

Falcon-18 is on this forum, and he is a Saudi national, who works for the SRCA. I am not sure if he staffs an ambulance, or drives with a paramedic, but his name is Omar, and he is extremely nice and easy to talk to. I encourage you to PM him if you like, he is very pleasant, and I am looking forward to meeting him.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

yes the FAQ was updated a couple weeks ago and has a lot of good info. Including the information that only 3 U.S. paramedics where there as of 2 weeks ago. could whoever has the email that was sent pm me and ill give you my email addy. If you don't mind forwarding it that is.

Regards!


----------



## WTEngel

schulz said:


> yes the FAQ was updated a couple weeks ago and has a lot of good info. Including the information that only 3 U.S. paramedics where there as of 2 weeks ago. could whoever has the email that was sent pm me and ill give you my email addy. If you don't mind forwarding it that is.
> 
> Regards!



I spoke with contact of mine a few months back (he is a recruitment manager for CHS, a private staffer for hospitals in Saudi, EMS in Kuwait, Afghanistan, etc.) and he told me about the 3 westerners situation. Judging from the amount of views and replies to this thread, I would say it is clear that they are trying to change that. I count 4 westerners so far who are in the process?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I was suppose to go to Kuwait with CHS but the security clearance got my friend and I tied up in months of red tape and problems.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Oh by the way I also emailed the German on flicker who appears to work for SRCA. Ill let yall know if he gets back to me


----------



## WTEngel

schulz said:


> Oh by the way I also emailed the German on flicker who appears to work for SRCA. Ill let yall know if he gets back to me



I don't believe he works there anymore. He uploaded a picture of himself drinking some smuggled alcohol in compound (absolutely stupid stupid idea!!) and then replied that he was already out of country, so he didn't care if they knew. I had also e mailed him, and I have not received a reply.

The security clearance was one of the reasons I didn't even apply with CHS. I knw I could get the clearance, I didn't want to be caught up in all of that bureaucracy. Also, the idea of running EMS on a military base didn't excite me. Most of the guys doing that haven't been too impressed with it...


----------



## NJmedic3250

WTEngel said:


> As far as the conditional flight position is concerned, I know for a fact that they have purchased new helicopters and entered into a long term contract for the purchase of 28 helicopters over the next 5 years. You can do some research on google and actually find the news articles from Saudi Arabia discussing this subject. Also, I have spoken with a pilot who has been working with the recruitment company that is securing the pilots for this position (Action Aviation.)
> 
> Now, the purpose for making the flight position conditional is two fold. First, I currently work for a flight service, and getting the opportunity to evaluate people's skills and abilities before putting them on a helicopter is imperative. I would not want to work on a bird with someone before I got to know them clinically. There is a lot of trust and team work that goes in to aeromedical calls, because the risk is greater and the patient's are more critical than ground transports. The second reason probably has to do with the fact that we all know someone can look great on paper, and then when you see them in person, you realize there resume may have a lot of credentials, but no real substance. Anyone who has worked in EMS long enough to qualify for a flight position has worked with the "book smart" paramedic who doesn't have common sense to save his/her own life. The conditional flight position is the safest way to do it, and frankly, I wouldn't go any other way.
> 
> Dr. Nakity is a recruiter, and the situation on the ground is fluid. Combine that with a slight language barrier, and I can understand why it is hard for him to confidently answer questions. Also, he doesn't live in the compound, he wouldn't know what it is like. The compound is brand new. We will be the first to live there.
> 
> I encourage everyone to visit www.emssaudiarabia.com and check the FAQ page. It has been updated in the last two weeks with some great information.




Good info. I understand why making the flight position conditional makes sense. My concern was that was going to end up being the first example of a series of empty promises when I hit the ground there. I just don't want to be the guy that believes everything I hear and then be unpleasantly surprised with my choice to take the position. However, I will say this. Hearing the enthusiasm coming from everyone in the application process is putting my mind at ease about the whole thing. Hope to meet and work with everyone in the future.


----------



## WTEngel

The SRCA has been dealing with expats (mostly European and South African) for many years now. I have done quite a bit of searching online and spoken with a few friends who are familiar with international contracting, and while they have heard of SRCA, they haven't heard anything negative. That is not to say that they have heard anything overtly positive, but in the small world of international contracting, generally you can always find someone to say something negative about a contractor.

The only thing negative I have heard, and it has been on this forum from someone who has not worked for the SRCA, was that they have changed contracts on a few of their expats. When I prodded the poster for more information, such as whether they changed, salary, living, duration, etc. I did not get a response.

My feeling on changing contracts is that it could possibly be a result of the expat either not having the certifications or qualifications they stated when they were made the offer, or they were not able to PROVE that they possessed the qualifications they stated they had. My advice, make sure you have originals of EVERy certification and qualification that you claimed to have in your resume, application, and any other interaction you have had with SRCA. This way everyone is on the same page. If you are unable to produce an original copy of a certification, you might fall into the category of people who have had their contracts changed. 

This is all just speculation on my part. You have to remember, the Saudis have a LOT of money, but they don't just throw it away paying foreign contractors. If you aren't able to prove what you claimed you had during the "interview" and pre hiring process, then they will turn around and make the deal that is most financially advantageous to them. The same would happen if the shoe were on the other foot and it was an American contractor. Believe me, these foreign contractors are all about the bottom line.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Sounds like the SCRA's U.S. employees maybe staffed almost exclusively from the EMT LIFE forums, ;-)


----------



## WTEngel

So has anybody actually sent their documents to Rendezvous Travel yet? I am mailing mine off today. She is saying it will take 3 to 4 weeks for the documents to process and the work visa to be approved.


----------



## falcon-18

hello, everybody I am sorry I want answer all of your Q... but I was very busy first in 18 november I did accident by ambulance ,then in 25 november the flood in my city so we had (code red). but Now I am free , and I can answer some of it . I was saw some post in these days but I did not answer because really I was very busy . anyway I will answer of it in the next few days. thanks everybody.

I will but some pic for ambulance and flood soon.


----------



## WTEngel

Omar,

Have you seen the new helicopters yet? Any chance you could post some pics of them? I am very eager to see what they look like!

Glad to see that you that you made it through the flooding alright.  be safe!

Travis


----------



## falcon-18

WTEngel said:


> Omar,
> 
> Have you seen the new helicopters yet? Any chance you could post some pics of them? I am very eager to see what they look like!
> 
> Glad to see that you that you made it through the flooding alright.  be safe!
> 
> Travis



Travis

hello, how are you? 
This hypothesis by the Saudi Red Crescent Society in Riyadh, capital of Saudi Arabia. On Monday. I apologize for the lack of images of the aircraft because I am in the city far from the capital Riyadh, but will try. Give me a few days. I will try but not promise.

http://www.alyaum.com/issue/article.php?IN=13325&I=721390&G=3
omar


----------



## WTEngel

So are they already flying missions with the helicopters? I did not think they had started yet.

How long have the helicopters been operational?


----------



## 2easy4u

*SRCA job offer*

Falcon 18 & WTengle
I received a preliminary job offer today. I have looked it over and discussed it with my wife and family. I replied to the e-mail with acceptance conditional on a job description. I asked s few questions in my reply about CRM, PELA sites and the 51% rule. I am somewhat excited about this whole thing, but I don't have enough info to be able to voice an opinion. I have read all of the posts on this thread and learned a little more but still lacking in what I need to hear. The offer was one sheet with job title and a list of pay and benefits. I really need more than that for a supervisory position. I have not received a packet,and I am hoping there will be more information in it to discern. Can one of you guys PM me about the info in your packet? Yes I am an American flight paramedic. I heard about the job from one of the pilots that I work with. 
Thanks
2easy4u


----------



## McLenin

I asked s few questions in my reply about CRM, PELA sites and the 51% rule.


----------



## McLenin

what is this rule? What do you mean by CRM,PELA 51%?

My wife wants to go with me, but doesn't want to be home all day she rather work. What I understood is that your wife stays only as a visitor, because she doesnt have the work visa. Does anyone has more info? People that bring family with them, what do you think?

I really want to see our compounds(  APARTMENTS)  pictures, or at least the equipment that I will have to use.

I dont want to rush the whole process, I will take my time, I think we have like 3 month to get staff together. This medical form we have, the physical and the lab work is done by the same doctor?

and  I will take couple weeks vacation before I go)))))))))


----------



## 2easy4u

*CRM,PELA,51% Rule*

CRM Crew resource management. This is when the pilots utilize all crew members especially on take off and landing. 
PELA site is a pre-existing landing area or designated LZ landing Zone. 
51%rule is when any crew member feels unsafe about the mission can call 51% and we go back to base and debrief on the ground.
All of these things are a safety standards to minimize the possibility of crews getting into trouble during a flight.
It is so much better to be on the ground wishing you could fly than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground. I know that for certain.
I hope this helps. My wife is not going.


----------



## WTEngel

I believe he is speaking of Crew Resource Management (CRM) and Proficiency in English Language for Air Traffic Controllers (PELA).

CRM is basically a communication and action style meant to improve safety before, during and after flight. PELA is a standard for air traffic controllers that goes over phonetics, pronunciation, and also understanding of english. There is a test associated with this standard that tests the air traffic controllers ability to communicate and understand pilots speaking english.

I would be surprised if the recruiter knows that much about the detailed operations of the flight program. I have spoken with a pilot in the recruitment process for SRCA, and he said they are pretty much following FAR 135 and not trying to re invent the wheel.

When you are say 51% rule, are you talking about for experimental aircraft? The MD 902 is not an experimental aircraft, so I am not sure exactly where you are thinking the 51% rule would come into play. I could be totally wrong, and you might be speaking of something completely different.


----------



## WTEngel

Woops! 1 out of 3 isn't too bad!

I have never heard it called the 51% rule before. Usually we call it standing down, time out, "3 to go, 1 to say no", safe harbor (for all you nurses out there), etc. I have been lucky enough to have never been in a program that pressured staff even when they feel unsafe. I know these programs exist, and for anyone reading, if you work for one currently, get out as soon as possible. In cases where management pressures staff to take flights, it is a matter of when you will have an incident, not if.

Either way, I have heard that all the flight crews are being oriented prior to flying for something like 30 days. This could be a total rumor, but it sounds like a reasonable assumption.


----------



## 2easy4u

*No pressure*

I have been flying for the same company since 1998 as a medic. And I have never been pressured. But if you fly long enough,stuff happens. Complacency is deadly and is no respecter of persons. I want to make sure this is safe.


----------



## WTEngel

So what is your motivation for taking on such great hardship and risk to go to KSA? Are the pay and benefits that much higher that you will make significantly more in KSA while still having to support your family here at home?

The only thing making it really profitable for me is that I will have no expenses here at home while I am away. 

It really is none of my business I guess, but I was just wondering, since you seem to be pretty comfortable with the company you are currently working for.


----------



## 2easy4u

*Goals*

My children are raised but struggling to go to college. My wife and I started a small bakery in 2007. The economy crashed and the bakery didn't make it. It would have been really good info if good ole W would have admitted we were in fact in a recession before I went into debt. Luckily we did not go completely bankrupt, we just closed the door and paid for everything. And we are still paying. But I'm not bitter or anything. I would like to have a short discussion with W and **** about what they were thinking. But that is water under the bridge.
Basically I am very comfortable where I am. I don't have to go. It would make it easier, but is not required.


----------



## falcon-18

WTEngel said:


> So are they already flying missions with the helicopters? I did not think they had started yet.
> 
> How long have the helicopters been operational?




hello,,
this news tow days ago from now. I think there is some helicopters. as I know it will start in deember... I do not have clear time for it :unsure: . sorry . 
:sad:








McLenin said:


> what is this rule? What do you mean by CRM,PELA 51%?
> 
> My wife wants to go with me, but doesn't want to be home all day she rather work. What I understood is that your wife stays only as a visitor, because she doesnt have the work visa. Does anyone has more info? People that bring family with them, what do you think?





hello, 

no, she can works here in KSA, I know some women work here in hospital and in SRCA in General Administration of self-employment. I think they are from south africa and australia, I am not sure if there is some from germany. in hospital I saw from US,UK,philipin,China,INDIA,PAKISTAN,GERMANY.... there is too much but you should re-ask about work for in KSA.


----------



## zstop14

WTEngel said:


> Thanks for the reply Falcon, I am definitely excited to be coming to KSA and partnering with the nationals to get the helicopter EMS system up and running. I received my contract today, and they are offering me a position as a flight medic. Once I get my medical and visa clearance, I should be on a plane. I am thinking around the 1st of the year...
> 
> Now, as far as females working in EMS...
> 
> I have heard different rumors about different hospital based ambulance services considering female staff for Ob-Gyn calls and other types of calls where a female patient being treated by a male practitioner would not be possible with respect to Islamic religious and moral beliefs.
> 
> Now as far as going over there as a "queer", like you so eloquently put it, that would not be possible given their moral stance on homosexuality.
> 
> The Saudi Red Crescent seems to be trying to put together a really top notch helicopter EMS system, with up to 28 helicopters nation wide and 6 fixed wing ambulances. The pay is competitive and from what my contract says, they seem to be treating their expats well. I am definitely enthusiastic to get over there and learn as much as I can about the culture while helping those in need. Definitely a once in a lifetime experience...
> 
> Anybody else in the application process?



Hello I am a Critical Care Paramedic from Indiana.  I have recently received my job offer from Saudi Red Crescent as a Paramedic in Riyadh.  Where will you be working at and do you have any helpful information for me?  Have you heard anything about their So's and what medications they carry?


----------



## WTEngel

In regards to the poster asking about if his wife can work, that is not possible if she is coming over with a visitor visa attached to your iqama. Basically the only people who can work in Saudi are citizens, and those with a work visa. 

In order for your wife to work, she would need to stay here in the states, apply with a company in Saudi that will hire her and then send her a letter of authorization just as you are getting from SRCA, and then apply for a work visa in the same manner that you are now. Once she is over in Saudi on a visitor or family visa, or any visa other than a work visa for that matter, she will not be allowed to hold employment of any kind. This is what I have learned from the other forums and research I have done, so it may not be 100% accurate, but I believe it to be so.

As far as medications and protocols, I don't think anyone has been made aware of those yet, last I heard they were still being finalized. The protocols will be different than the gorund service, for obvious reasons. This being a new program and all, things are in a state of change as they work out the kinks in preparation for launch.


----------



## falcon-18

zstop14 said:


> Hello I am a Critical Care Paramedic from Indiana.  I have recently received my job offer from Saudi Red Crescent as a Paramedic in Riyadh.  Where will you be working at and do you have any helpful information for me?  Have you heard anything about their So's and what medications they carry?



heloo, and welcome to work here in KSA. we do not have a clear protocol now, because they are a new protocol in the next months. but I think it will not have a big change, it is emergency medication as every protocol.

falcon-18(omar)


----------



## calimedic

*Saudi Red Crescent*

SRCS is starting up a air medical service. I have two friends who have gone over in November. They need both Air and ground based medic's.

It will be a huge challange. Saudi has on of the highest accident death rates in the world. The housing I am told is first rate and the pay is good.

SRCS has contracted with Action Aviation out of the UK to run the air medical service. 

A good book about Saudi is called "Paramedic to the Prince" About an American paramedic that worked in Saudi for about ten years. A great read. Gives you a real inside look into the country.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

falcon or anyone else who knows,
As a ground Paramedic for SRCA I hear we are partners with a saudi EMT-B? Also, do you we share the driving the of the ambulance or does he do most of that?


----------



## calimedic

*Saudi Red Crescent*

You won't be asked to drive. you could get paired with an EMT from any number of countries. I am sure you should be paired with an arbic speaker. In the cities english is spoken by some. The majority of Saudi's don't speak much english. 

I know some won't agree and say most Saudi's speak english. But from my experience it helps to learn some basic arabic.


" wayne Alum"  where does it hurt
" lotta Harrick"  Dont move
theres the arabic lesson for today..


----------



## NJmedic3250

schulz said:


> falcon or anyone else who knows,
> As a ground Paramedic for SRCA I hear we are partners with a saudi EMT-B? Also, do you we share the driving the of the ambulance or does he do most of that?



As per Dr Nakiti, you are paired with an EMT B/ driver/ translator who has a good knowledge of the city's streets. My assumption is that this EMT will be Saudi. In addition, you will have a BLS ambulance on every scene.


----------



## rhousewa

From everything I have learned NJmedic3250 is correct in his last post.  I might add this, we foreign medics will be in a quick response vehicle (QRV) and will co respond with the BLS ambulance on calls.  Got this from Omar (falcon-18) and Dr. Nakity and I am comfortable with their knowledge on this topic.  Jeff


----------



## WTEngel

I also have heard the same info on the ground crews, as far as ALS responders are in a quick response vehicle with a Saudi EMT partner, rendezvousing with a BLS ambulance, where the determination will be made by the ALS crew to either hop on the BLS unit and provide ALS care to the hospital, or to allow the BLS crew to continue transport providing BLS care, and the paramedic clears the scene to go to the next call.

Also, I have received some positive information regarding my work visa status. I was informed today that my visa should be ready on December 16th. This is a turnaround time of 6 business days. The travel agent led me to believe it might take 3 to 4 weeks, so I am pretty happy to hear this. I guess the travel agent underpromised and overdelivered...which is always great to hear.

The travel agent told me that she did not coordinate the airplane tickets, and that once I had my visa approved, I needed to contact my handler with the SRCA and arrange travel with them.

My advice to anyone who may be fixing to send off your work visa paperwork, make sure EVERYTHING is in order. Every i dotted and every t crossed. If there is any question, call and ask before you send it. It is much better to be delayed a week in sending the paperwork to make sure everything is right, rather than send paperowkr that is not filled out appropriately, as that will likely delay you for 2 weeks or more. 

I don't know if this made a difference or not, but I arranged my paperwork in 4 seperate envelopes inside the packet I mailed. One envelope contained my passport. The second contained everything regarding my professional licensure (registrar letter, transcript, letter from certifuing agency, and diploma.) The third envelope contained all of my visa paperwork, which included my visa application, medical report in triple form with labs attached, authorization letter, and signed contract. The fourth envelope contained my personal refernces and employment verification letters.

I feel like organizing this way may have really helped the travel agent in organizing it to send to the embassy.

Anyway, if anyone else has any additional info to add, mark it down. It looks like my bags are nearly packed!


----------



## 2easy4u

*Thanks*

Thanks WT.

I should get the packet next week. It looks like you found the right combination.  I will use that info when I send my stuff in. I want to see what is in the contract. I don't expect any surprises. I have spoken to Dr Nakity,and one of the pilots. They were very helpful and reassured my on safety. If everything works out I should see you over there pretty soon.


----------



## WTEngel

Also, I came onto two photos of the new helicopters. They are outstanding airframes, and they look great!


----------



## j_commspec

I have submitted my resume for the Comm. Spec. position. Maybe someday we will be talking to each other. I have 16 years experience as a comm. spec. This sounds very interesting.
 I have read your entire thread. I will not make you repeat yourself. 
Thanks for all of the info so far.


----------



## WTEngel

That's great. I haven't talked to anyone going as a comm specialist yet. Is all of your experience with ground crews, or do you work with a flight service?


----------



## McLenin

*good job*

congrats WTE, send us pictures of the housing once u arrive.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

WTE,
Stay in touch if possible once you have boots on the ground over there. I bet it could be a lot of help to many of us behind. Goodluck!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

PS: here is some extra reading material 
http://americanbedu.com/2009/11/11/saudi-arabia-and-transition-of-an-australian-family/


----------



## McLenin

Do I need to send any money with my application? What was the total cost of the medical exam with labs?


----------



## j_commspec

*costs*

I have not heard of any costs at this point. Are there any other comm. specs applying.


----------



## WTEngel

It is a general rule that you should NEVER have to pay anything to an employer when trying to obtain overseas work. 

The only out of pocket expense other than postage was the physical examination. I am not sure what the total cost on this is yet, as my physician is a personal friend and is working agressively to file everything possible with my current insurance company. I would be prepared to pay $500.00 or possibly more for your medical exam. That should be your only out of pocket expense. 

The only other possible expense that you might have to pay is if you are unable to get all of your documents notarized, the Saudi consulate might charge a fee to certify those documents, which basically amounts to them doing a little legwork to make phone calls and ensure that your documents are in fact genuine. I am not positive, but I believe the cost per document is something aliong the line of $30.00. My advice is to get everything notarized before you send it in, as the Saudi certification process is likely to take longer than you would like to wait, and also, depending on the number of documents they have to certify, it could become costly. Have all your t's crossed and i's dotted before you mail in your application, it will make your life and their job much easier and expedient.


----------



## McLenin

I dont have a personal doctor, so its going to be a journey for me. I dont even know where to start....<_<


----------



## WTEngel

Without a primary care physician, you are probably looking at going the most expensive possible route to get your physical. I am not sure if you have insureance or not, but without insurance, I wouldn't be surprised if you paid upwards of $600 or $700. I know the chest x rays alone are generally $100 w/o insurance.

Perhaps you should approach a physician and begin a relationship with them as your primary. Basically ask them for a routine physical, and hand them the work physical paperwork from teh SRCA, and request that they add on all the addiotinal tests.

Another resource for you to look into would be immigration physicians in your area. Typically these physicians do immigration physicals for immigrants wanting US citizenship, however, they should have experience in dealing with the paperwork involved in international travel regarding helth clearance.

Sorry I don't really have any other ideas. I know that the price for the physical may sound high, but also remember, you get a relocation bonus as soon as you arrive in Saudi. It is equal to one months base salary (possibly around 3,000 USD?) which should help offset any of the costs you incur while in processing.


----------



## falcon-18

calimedic said:


> You won't be asked to drive. you could get paired with an EMT from any number of countries. I am sure you should be paired with an arbic speaker. In the cities english is spoken by some. The majority of Saudi's don't speak much english.
> 
> I know some won't agree and say most Saudi's speak english. But from my experience it helps to learn some basic arabic.
> 
> 
> " wayne Alum"  where does it hurt
> " lotta Harrick"  Dont move
> theres the arabic lesson for today..



that is right the driver should be saudian man because he knows the place and he can talk with the dispatch

good course for arabic 

if you want I will give you course

do not worries it is free.

kaif halouk(( how are you ))







NJmedic3250 said:


> As per Dr Nakiti, you are paired with an EMT B/ driver/ translator who has a good knowledge of the city's streets. My assumption is that this EMT will be Saudi. In addition, you will have a BLS ambulance on every scene.



+2 that is right.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

WTE I am also in the no insurance boat. Do you think SRCA will take my physical from CHS when I was in Florida processing for Kuwait around 4 or 5 months ago?


----------



## WTEngel

That would be a question for the visa handler at Redezvous. 

Best case scenario you are able to take the entire lab work packet from your CHS physical to the MD of your choosing and they will accept the results and sign off on your medical form without re ordering the tests. There is a 6 month tiem limit limit on the lab work I believe, but I could be wrong... for some reason 3 months also sticks out as a possible expiration date.

I hate to say it, but it seems like there might be a big chance you will be redoing your physical. If there is any doubt about whether they will accept it or not, I would completely redo the physical, despite the cost. The amount of time you will lose by sending in the visa packet innapropriately filled out could be weeks, and possibly months, assuming you have to make an appointment for another physical, mail the paperwork back and forth, etc, etc...

Also, I know the cost is a big factor, but the relocation is payable on arrival in Saudi...if that helps.


----------



## falcon-18

WTEngel said:


> Also, I came onto two photos of the new helicopters. They are outstanding airframes, and they look great!



that is right WT you bring it before me, no proplem.

this photos also for it ,in the first time of test in riyadh.


----------



## WTEngel

Awesome pics Omar! Very cool. I was speaking with Jay Paladino and he told me about the training they did on the highway the other day. He said the state police did an awesome job in controlling the traffic for the drill...He said things are looking really good over there.

Omar, where are you based out of?


----------



## McLenin

falcon
Do you know where we will be living ? I will appreciate a lot, if you can find that out, and maybe post pictures....


----------



## calimedic

*Red Crescent*

I spoke with Jay as well. He is on the ground now in Saudi. He seems to be happy with the way things are looking. There is a large expatriate community and there are lots of activities going on. Desert trips etc...

I found this guys web-site, a paramedic who wrote a book about Saudi. 

WWW.paramedictotheprince.com. Jay has read it and says it is a very good read.

Good luck, if nothing else it should prove to be a great adventure.


----------



## falcon-18

McLenin said:


> falcon
> Do you know where we will be living ? I will appreciate a lot, if you can find that out, and maybe post pictures....



I do not have any clear idea about it..

really I want help you but I do not know .

According to my knowledge that foreigners living in housing by the guards is very tight by security men. Such as vertical village and the village of dew in Jeddah, there are many of them and you can also live out if you want at your own risk. This is what I know is for the companies where there are foreigners.

good luck .


----------



## ExpatMedic0

My friend Aaron who is also an Oregon medic just got his offer today. So he will be coming along also!


----------



## falcon-18

WTEngel said:


> Awesome pics Omar! Very cool. I was speaking with Jay Paladino and he told me about the training they did on the highway the other day. He said the state police did an awesome job in controlling the traffic for the drill...He said things are looking really good over there.
> 
> Omar, where are you based out of?



I am working in JEDDAH city. near al haramin high road.

who is Jay Paladino ?????


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Question,

regarding the notarized documents. Every time I have had a document notarized its been something that just needs to be signed in front of a witness.

How can the notary verify all your employment records, paramedic cert, acls ect... by stamping the paper? How did you guys deal with this?


----------



## WTEngel

I actually had to ask my employers and former employers to notarize the letter they were giving me. They looked at me funny and questioned me about it, and I just said it was for overseas employment, and that the perspective employer was very specific about wanting it notarized. I was then very gracious and told them how much of a help it would be if they could just find a way to get it notarized, and that worked for me.

As for your ACLS certs and all that, those do not need to be notarized. Documents that are originals, like your diploma, I believe can be certified by the consulate, for a fee. I am not 100% positive about this, and I do not know what it requires, but the travel agent basically told me she would get back to me with any fees that the consulate might charge to certify documents. So far she has not contacted me about any fees, and supposedly my work visa is going to be approved Wednesday the 16th (fingers crossed.) 

My advice would be to go to a notary and ask how you can certify a document as authentic. They may have a form or something that you can attach to the original diploma that can be notarized by them. The last thing I want is a big ugly notary public stamp on my pretty paramedic diploma ; )


----------



## skysix

*SRC / Action Aviation*

Hi - new to forum. 

Just spoke with Jay and offer in mail - I'm also from Portland. Can anyone contact me off line with what details to look for in the offer etc so I don't miss something essential and screw myself?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hey I would help a fellow Portlander if I could, but I am not really familiar with this. It will make my 2nd offer ever for an international Paramedic contract. I am sure someone on here can help you though. Seems like there is atleast 3 of us from Oregon heading over. Look forward to meeting everyone if it all work out!

-Mike


----------



## Flight Med

I seen the job listing on Flightweb and was wondering how lucrative the position was as a flightmedic over there.  I am currently in Alaska working as a critical care FM here.


----------



## Yurong

Wow, I'm glad I found this forum! I've been playing e-mail tag with Dr.
 Nakity for a couple of months now for a ground position. I am currently finishing up by B.S. in EMS at Eastern Kentucky University after having had my medic for a few years. I hadn't even considered international employment until after speaking with several Saudi students who were sent to EKU from the Red Crescent to get their paramedics. I've explored a couple of other positions in KSA at the specialist hospitals, but most are requiring 5 years post bachelor's degree employment, regardless of the total years of EMS experience.

Anyway, I was hoping that someone could forward those magical emails that have been bouncing around to avoid asking some redundant questions that have already been answered. As a side note, if anyone receives any documents in Arabic that they need translated, several of the students at the university have offered to help me, and I am sure I could get them to look at others (helping with their end of year practicals have really paid off). 

I haven't quite reached a job offer stage (I have been waiting to receive my passport for over two months now...) so I was hoping someone could give a general heads up on the salary's that are being offered to the ground medics. Feel free to tell me its none of my business, but it would really help satisfy my curiosity. You can PM me


----------



## ExpatMedic0

did you expedite your passport?



Yurong said:


> Wow, I'm glad I found this forum! I've been playing e-mail tag with Dr.
> Nakity for a couple of months now for a ground position. I am currently finishing up by B.S. in EMS at Eastern Kentucky University after having had my medic for a few years. I hadn't even considered international employment until after speaking with several Saudi students who were sent to EKU from the Red Crescent to get their paramedics. I've explored a couple of other positions in KSA at the specialist hospitals, but most are requiring 5 years post bachelor's degree employment, regardless of the total years of EMS experience.
> 
> Anyway, I was hoping that someone could forward those magical emails that have been bouncing around to avoid asking some redundant questions that have already been answered. As a side note, if anyone receives any documents in Arabic that they need translated, several of the students at the university have offered to help me, and I am sure I could get them to look at others (helping with their end of year practicals have really paid off).
> 
> I haven't quite reached a job offer stage (I have been waiting to receive my passport for over two months now...) so I was hoping someone could give a general heads up on the salary's that are being offered to the ground medics. Feel free to tell me its none of my business, but it would really help satisfy my curiosity. You can PM me


----------



## Yurong

Of course not, that would of made too much sense. At the time I had at least 4 months to finish up my b.s. Degree and I figured that would be plenty of time. I think I am going to make some calls in the morning and see if it would just be faster to do a new application, but I bet I lose my $125 in the process.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

That sucks man. Check where your nearest passport issue office is. I live in Portland Oregon and mine is in Seattle. I can make an appointment and drive up there with a travel agenda showing a flight for Saudi in less than 2 weeks and get my passport the same day with some extra fee's.


----------



## rhousewa

*Passports*

I don't want to spoil anyone's day but this is the link to the Saudi Embassy for work visa information.  The first item on the list is, "A passport valid for at least six (6) months, with at least two (2) clear visa pages adjacent to each other."  This site has a lot of good information that you should view if you are looking at going to KSA.  Jeff 

http://www.saudiembassy.net/services/employment_visa.aspx


----------



## WTEngel

You also will not be able to book a flight to Saudi without a valid work visa, which requires a passport valid for 6 months or longer. 

In essence, you need to expedite your passport, and then you have 6 months to get all the paperwork complete. In fact, you cannot even fill out the online application completely without a valid passport #. I would say you have at least 7 months from the time your passport is in your hand until you will be able to deploy. That is 6 months for the time limit, and then 3-4 weeks after that to allow for the visa to process.

That isn't to say that the SRCA may not be able to assist you in obtaining a work visa sooner by somehow getting the consulate to waive the 6 month passport time requirement, however, you and I have a better chance of getting into a snowball fight in Riyadh than that happening, IMHO.


----------



## JayPal

Well, I see that several people have several questions about the SRCA and the operations that we are setting up. I apologize for not coming up sooner on this website, but I was just informed about it (and I notice that I am already in the paper, ice cream on me!). I am Jay Paladino and the Head of Aviation Paramedical for Action Aviation who is consulting to the SRCA on this project. As most of you know, I contact you by phone to answer your questions because I like talking to live people instead of typing. Should you have any questions, please ask me directly and I will shoot you straight. The last thing I would do is bring someone over here on false pretenses. It does nothing but wastes my resources and time as it does yours. I have been an expat and experienced that situation personally and it does make for a successful work environment. This project is big and we need people that are willing to be a part of something that is why I am posting this. Please, anything you would like to know, ASK! My personal email is jaypaladino@gmail.com


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Jay I sent you an email.

Other guys, ' "A passport valid for at least six (6) months" I understood this statement differently. To me that means your passport must remain valid for the next 6 months until it expires. That also makes more since to me, Why would they give you a visa if your passport expires next month, compared to just having your passport it in a drawer for 6 months as a requirment. I could be wrong?


----------



## Yurong

That's how I took it also. Looks like
my closest passportoffice is in DC... Oh well, nothing like
a Trip to the capital to fell like your tax dollars are wasted!


----------



## WTEngel

Yeah after further review I am mistaken, I think you guys are right...

This is why I am a paramedic not a travel agent, although lately coordinating all of my paperwork I feel somewhat like an HR agent...

Sorry for the bad info...


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hey no prob it was not that clear, but Jay from SRCA got back to me and said 
"No, you need to have 6 months validity left on the passport." so I guess I was right. 
I am not a travel agent either and was not sure, so I am glad he cleared that up for us!


----------



## WTEngel

Work visa was approved today!

I have sent the date range for when I would like to deploy, and the travel agent is booking the tickets for me and sending the info to SRCA. The next thing I should get is my e ticket and my originals back from the consulate.

January 13th - the 18th I will will be deploying....


----------



## muzlblast

WTEngel said:


> Work visa was approved today!
> 
> I have sent the date range for when I would like to deploy, and the travel agent is booking the tickets for me and sending the info to SRCA. The next thing I should get is my e ticket and my originals back from the consulate.
> 
> January 13th - the 18th I will will be deploying....



Congrats buddy, Looking forward to hearing from you when get there. See you soon!


----------



## helimedic39

*another add on*

Hey, thought i'd throw myself out there since i've seen everyone has been communicating about going to work for SRCA. I'm working on my passport now and waiting. Looks like I will have a job offer once all that is set to go. Looking towards end of January realistically. So what's up, I'm Rob.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

hey rob hows it going? Where are you from how did you hear about SRCA?


----------



## helimedic39

What's up, I'm originally from Ann Arbor MI, GO BLUE! (eventhough we sucked again). I have been in AZ for the last 6 years..phoenix..I work in Colorado for a flight program. I heard about SRCA through JEMS. It was advertised, then action aviation posted on flightweb.


----------



## remotemedic

*SRCA/Action aviation*

Thanks everyone for all the helpful information. But lets stop beating around the bush, what's the salary range? For everyone who claim to have been made an offer, can you help? I've done work oversea work before, and it can be very rewarding. But I think some of you are jumping to quick. I personally expect at least $20,000 more than I make in the USA, otherwise what's the point. Everyone needs to take a deep breath, and do your homework before you jump. Read the infromation closely. If you use all of your vacation time out of country(Saudi Arabia), this will make you inelligible for the free tax beneifit. Trust me, I made this mistake, and I'm still paying the IRS today. Again, can someone be up front and provide what they're offering in salaries. I'm impressed with the benefits, and ready to go, just waiting for fair wage. I'm starting to feel like I'm getting the run around, I've received everything from from them both, except the salary. And they continue to ask if I can come immediately. The answer is YES, for a fair wage!!! How about the Action Aviation guy, could you provide a salary range, or spread sheet? Thanks!


----------



## WTEngel

First off, you are welcome for the info...

Secondly, salary is a pretty personal issue, so I am not sure how much luck you will have getting people to spill the beans on what they are making. From what I can tell, it is experience based, not negotiation based, and that's about it. When they sent me my contract, it was clearly outlined how much I would be making and it was fair in my opinion.

I saw on the FAQ'a on the www.emssaudiarabia.com website, that the salary was non negotiable, however, a few people have said that they have been given a second offer, I don't know how true that is.

Best of luck getting an offer you find acceptable.

By the way, I dealt directly with SRCA during my recruitment, so I am not sure how the recruitment process works if you are going through Action Aviation. That would be a question Jay might have the answer to.  I am not saying one is better than the other, I am just pointing out that the things I say are from dealing with SRCA, not Action.


----------



## remotemedic

*SRCA/Action aviation*

Thanks, for the information. I appreciate the advise and information. I have dealt with Action aviation, sounds like I need to deal with SRCA direct instead. As I realize salaries are a sensative issue from a company perspective, but I believe they are well shared on most bullentin boards, and internet discussion sites. I view several career oriented sites daily. This is how I found my last overseas employment. You find resources, and then communicate either directly with correspondents, or indirectly on the internet. Please don't take offense, but I believe you have backed yourself in the corner by giving your name, you should never do so. So I do not believe asking for a salary range is outside business or internet etique. So, we'll just agree to disagree. Thanks again, and congrates, hopefully we'll be working together soon. I will share that my salary as a remote medic was $120,000, with the range any where from $100 to $150+. I realize this is not even close to that position or situation. But I hope a range of $80 to $100 would be possible. Don't be so naive to believe that this is a safe and easy job, you are in a foreign country that dislikes Americans. If you disagree, read about the bombings on the American contractor compounds in the past. Our compounds require large amounts of security, and basically our own village(shopping,grocery,etc.) when off duty. Not trying to scare anyone, just being honest. Like I said before, I'm ready to move myself. I just think some of you are naive. Also to be fair, if some of you take low salaries, it hurts all of us, in such a harsh, and foreign land, let's be paid what we're worth. Why else do you think they're recruiting Americans. Supply and demand! Blah, Blah, Blah, can someone provide a vague salary range. I have a family to feed, and bills to pay, just like everyone else!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

yea bad idea to talk about offers on the public forum. Also this is not a DOD contract slot and it is not in a combat zone.

In other news, I have ran into another question. Did you guys do a FBI check on yourself or state police check? How long did this take?

- Mike


----------



## helimedic39

I did an FBI fingerprint check. It takes about 3 weeks.


----------



## WTEngel

I did a state DPS fingerprint check. It was returned in 5 business days. I live in Texas, so I am not sure how things will go in your state...


----------



## WTEngel

Also, I would like to reply about the idea that Saudi Arabia is a foreign country that does not like Americans. There are many expats working in KSA both at hospitals and for contractors. I have not worked there so I can not judge. All I can do is keep an open mind and do my research on Saudi Arabia. So far my findings have been positive.

I am not sure if you have worked in KSA, but I hope that you do your research also, and do not automatically jump to the conclusion that just because it is the Middle East, they do not like Americans.


----------



## Armor10

Hi I just received, via E-mail my offer of employment on Dec 15th. I am currently waiting for my packet to come. Does anyone know, will this be sent via FedEx, or UPS? Also WTEngle did you have to send them your actual Passport? I read in one of your other post's that one of your envelopes contained your Passport. But I wasn't sure if this was a copy or what. This really seems like a great opportunity. I look forward to seeing everyone over there, and by the way, I'm known for some serious Xbox party's. So HALO or GEARS at my place.


----------



## WTEngel

Your offer will come via FedEx package. You can actually track it by calling FedEx international and providing your address and the name of the sender (Saudi Red Crescent.) They may ask you for a tracking number, just tell them you did not receive one, and they should ask you for the other info.

Yeah, your actual passport needs to be sent to the visa handler. They actually affix your work visa to one of the visa pages in your passport. I know it feels weird to send such a personal and important document to a stranger, but it will be ok. They mail it back along with your other original documents.

Congrats...and you better watch out! I am a pretty good shot on Halo...


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I worked in Egypt for close to a year... I had an easy time in 2002-2003, although women could drive, people could drink, and it was easy going unlike saudi rules. I am sure you can expect some Saudis to not like Americans but if its anything like Egypt that wont be the majority. however DO EXPECT SOME A-HOLES just like any place. Be smart, stay safe, and show respect


----------



## McLenin

remotemedic - thank you sir for your post, it is very realistic. We wrote about all the benefits and good things to expect. Now lets talk about hidden stuff from us. First thing i want to know, is WHAT is the living conditions. SRCA are sending invitations, but are giving excuses when it comes to a direct question about apartments. People who worked overseas, please teach us on common mistakes we make while working., like the deal with vacation time and taxes. As far as the pay they offered me, I dont really care to say much i will make. i understand people will think of it as personal info, but come on we are in the same boat. They offered me total monthly salary of 17,500 SAR. (ground EMT-P). I have traveled in Europe many times, and i found lots of people hating Americans. I can only imagine what is middle east think of us, so we have to stick together at all times. Good luck to you all ))


----------



## Armor10

McLein, do you have a degree? How many years have you been a Medic? I think their basing wages on educational, and street experience? Still you have to add in free rent (So you can send most of your Salary home), and no taxes. It still seems like a sweet deal. I think most people have to remember that this isn't a DOD contract. It's a great experience to venture to another country and experience first hand a culture many westerners know nothing about.


----------



## Sweety

Hi'yall

There are people in Saudi Arabia that do not like Americans. This is fact! However, when you get here do not make the mistake of thinking cause you are American you are better than Saudi's or that you should be treated any better than others. I have been here on and off for 5 years. Our accents stand out, we look western and we act western. I am lucky as a gal many Saudi men do not dare to talk to me in public ( except pre-pubescent boys in malls). I wear an abbaya when out, cover my hair when needed. I can't drive and I am careful who I am seen with in public - especially male friends. 

There is a feeling by some that we shouldn't be here, but this goes for all westerners. Without western or foreign workers this nation would not last long, y'll see what I mean when you get here. 

Is it safe? Yes. Your not likely to get your bag or cell ripped from your arm, you will get wolf whistles and being a female the attitude by saudi's is we are cheap and want Saudi men ( how wrong). Some male friends have been abused verbally in public. Some have been told "go home Amereki". Just watch which area you visit. Most Americans do not go out in public much. Some tell people they are Canadian. The embassy website gives good advice. Read it.

The hospital system and the Red Crescent is not like home. Things are different. We cant change the system but we work here by choice, no one is forcing us to be here. The  "we don't do that like this at home" attitude doesn't work here. 

You make what you want of life here. You can drink, yu can dance, you can party (like adults boys-forget Xbox), you can travel, you can have a life albeit different to how we do it back home. 

I work in a hospital these days not EMS. We have heavy security all around. The RC guys don't. They work all over the city, they visit undesirable neighborhoods, they don't have security or Police with them. How many have been attacked? None that I know. Do they wear stab vests like London? No. Do they feel threatened? No more than where they came from. People, relatives get emotional especially when there is a death involved, just like anywhere in the world. Hopefully maturity and experience will guide you.

Hey you will feel like home there are more Yukons, Caddie's, and Crown Vics here than stateside!

Think of it like a holiday resort that wasn't like the brouchure depicted. Not all is glossy believe me, but you make it what you want. If you have doubts dont make the trip. If you want a challenge you'll get it.

The helicopter looks great. It has landed at my hospital a few times for training by the look of it. 

Time to go pack bags for Chrissy in Dubai.


Look up the word insh'alla.... you'll here it heaps 

Its sort of the Saudi way of saying "whateva"  although means god willing


----------



## falcon-18

Hello ,every body

I will back with some replay of post . I am busy a little but I will back with some american from ksa, I will try with him to joind to this fourm .

falcon-18


----------



## skysix

They offered me total monthly salary of 17,500 SAR. (ground EMT-P)

Obviously what they offer depends on your experience - but it also seems that the offer is also based on where you come from (ie what the 90th percentile medic wage in the country you are trained in is)


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I have been speaking with the German Paramedic who worked the SRCA that we found on flickr. He has lots of good information, including names and numbers of taxi drivers that can be trusted ect. He said don't trust just any random taxi driver it can result in trouble.

He also brought some negative points up. He claims he had to sign a new contract IN ARABIC (no English)when you arrive there and it resulted in less pay than previously discussed for him.
He also said if your EMT partner speaks much English your lucky.

He also said to make sure get liability and health insurance.

ALSO he has pictures of his compound in Riyadh 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kschnacki/sets/72157605972507629/

and as discussed prior his SRCA photos can be found here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kschnacki/sets/72157605126874689/
WHich also include a video of him responding in the chase car.


----------



## Yurong

Wow... Those are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for sharing the info!


----------



## WTEngel

I have read on the FAQ's at the emssaudirarabia.com website that there is a brand new compound that has been completed, and it is not open to the public, only SRCA personnel. There are no pics however. I think the German medic was living in old housing.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

WTEngel said:


> I have read on the FAQ's at the emssaudirarabia.com website that there is a brand new compound that has been completed, and it is not open to the public, only SRCA personnel. There are no pics however. I think the German medic was living in old housing.



That could be, I guess you will be the first to find out and let us know! Even if his photos are old it still gives you an idea I think.

In terms of the other stuff, all good information to think about. I am still tracking down the last of my papers Nakity has requested before I can be made an offer. Hope it all works out


----------



## falcon-18

Inaugurated by His Royal Highness Prince Salman bin Abdulaziz, ambulance service of the Red Crescent Authority

Saudi presence of His Royal Highness Prince Faisal bin Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, Chief of SRCA.

HH and heard a detailed explanation of this service and services to be provided for people with the speed of resuscitated

And shorten the time to get them to hospitals, with the consequent increase in the opportunity to save people's lives, God willing.

He saw the governor of Riyadh, is one of three aircraft will enter service in the Riyadh region, expressing

Thanks to His Highness Prince Faisal bin Abdullah bin Abdulaziz on the efforts undertaken in order to develop the SRCA.










prince salman lsitent to DR/ omfaq albaiouk.
















prince faisal (  in the right of pic )withe prince salman (in the middle )and DR/ mofaq albaiouk (in the left of pic ).


----------



## Sweety

Wow great photos. Is the German guy still with the Red Crescent? Why did he leave with so much going on?

Have  a great Chrissie and New Year guys


----------



## KSchnacki

*German Paramedic*

Hello folks,

this is the German Paramedic speaking. You want to know why I am back? One reason is that we made to much trouble. And that ends up in fireing one of us. The rumor was going on long. And at the end it was me. But I had no problem with that. The passport question was only one thing that went wrong. The vacation question is the other. You can take two times vacation. Not more. It is not the same then in our countrys take it if you want it. And travelling is only possible with multiple Entry-Exit Visa. Valid a half year and you have to pay it with 500SR. The other thing was the contract. Arabic is not my No. 1 language. But it is needed because it is Saudi Arabia!!! So be careful!! The pics of the new helicopter are nice. But there is no brain behind the money. And that is the biggest problem.

You can get in contact with Scott Sessions on Facebook. He is US and still down there with his family! Or ask Rhonda, his wife also on Facebook. 

If you have any further questions please contact me.

Have a great Christmas time at home!! Down there is no Christmas allowed.


----------



## KSchnacki

WTEngel said:


> I have read on the FAQ's at the emssaudirarabia.com website that there is a brand new compound that has been completed, and it is not open to the public, only SRCA personnel. There are no pics however. I think the German medic was living in old housing.



The compounds are never open to public! In some are only living US or Australian etc. in others are living Pakistan, Iran, Irak etc. We have been in a small one with only 25 appartments. And yes it was a bit older. All compounds are owned by Saudis!! There is no business without them!!


----------



## WTEngel

Thanks for the info KSchnaki, very good to know.

You and your family have a good Christmas also!

Cheers


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Falcon,
Sweet pics of the chopper!

KSchnacki,
Hey thanks for stopping by! As stated KSchnacki is the German Paramedic we found on flickr I got my pictures from and have been communicating with who worked for SRCA last year.


----------



## Sweety

Your the German that got fired. I met two of the German guys at a compond but I don't think it was you. Great guys having fun maybe with a different attitude to yours. 

Saudi arabia is not the easiest country to work in. You need the right mentality and attitude as things are done different to where we come from.

I hope you enjoyed your time here. Are you working in EMS again in Germany. Do they hire US female Paramedics? I would be interested in working in Germany. What part of Germany do you work in?

Are you the German that loaned money from the bank and left or is that someone else?


----------



## skysix

*News release on KSA air program*

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=129971&d=21&m=12&y=2009


----------



## WTEngel

These are all good things. It looks like the operation on the ground over there is coming along great!

I received my work visa today by FedEx and I have sent my requested travel information to the SRCA, so we will see how long it takes them to purchase my tickets and send me a confirmation. Once I get travel confirmation, I will call it official!

How is everyone else doing in the process?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I am having an issue getting one of my employers to get me a letter, other than that everything else is coming along.  I hope to have everything hammered out soon and catch up to you guys in this process


----------



## helimedic39

I am going through Action Aviation. I received an email from SRCA about the paperwork needed. It's my understanding that is if you go through them for employment. Anyone have an idea if I still need all the letters even though AA is not asking for it? I just sent for my passport so I'm hoping if all goes well, I will have an official offer and be out there by Feb 1st.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

How do you keep in touch with back home, Is anyone renting a satellite phone? How does the cell service work?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> How do you keep in touch with back home, Is anyone renting a satellite phone? How does the cell service work?



Before my contract with CHS got held up in Kuwait I was instructed the other medics where using something called "Magic jack" http://www.magicjack.com/8/index.asp 

I believe it lets you call home for free or a really low price using your computer as a phone almost anywhere in the world.


----------



## skysix

I think that most use SKYPE and possibly a usb plug-in handset


----------



## akflightmedic

Been using SKYPE for a couple years now myself.

For $12 a month I can call anyone in the USA or Canada (diff plans to choose from). I can call their computer or their phones. It also allows instant messaging and text messaging.

For $67 a year, I also bought a phone number with my local area code for my computer. Now anyone can call me from any phone without having to go online. If I am not signed into SKYPE, it goes to my voice mail. If I am signed in, my computer rings...


----------



## Sweety

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> How do you keep in touch with back home, Is anyone renting a satellite phone? How does the cell service work?



Umm, Saudi arabia is a modern country. They have landlines, cellphones and internet at reasonable broadband speed. They even have satellite TV!

Cell service is pretty good in Riyadh and major cities. Most of us use prepaid cards that you can recharge just like in the US. 

Are you guys being flown over business class? I heard some of the guys have in the past. Worth joining an airline rewards program too

Merry christmas guys


----------



## Armor10

I just got my last notarized letter from my last employer. For some reason all my employers were willing to give me an employment verification letter, but when I mentioned that it had to be notarized. They were like "OH!", but I eventually got them, I also got my Paramedic scope letter notarized by my training officer. I haven't received my packet yet, but I did e-mail them and they did say my paperwork was being processed through the Ministry. So With the Holidays going on, I hope to have it in a few days. I have made an appointment with my DR, for after the new year, and I'm going to get finger printed after Christmas, so I can get my Background check going. Thats pretty much where I'm at. Good Luck everyone.


----------



## KSchnacki

Sweety said:


> Your the German that got fired. I met two of the German guys at a compond but I don't think it was you. Great guys having fun maybe with a different attitude to yours.
> 
> Saudi arabia is not the easiest country to work in. You need the right mentality and attitude as things are done different to where we come from.
> 
> I hope you enjoyed your time here. Are you working in EMS again in Germany. Do they hire US female Paramedics? I would be interested in working in Germany. What part of Germany do you work in?
> 
> Are you the German that loaned money from the bank and left or is that someone else?



Thinks can be different. That is no problem. And we had a lot of informations before because one of the other guys was working in Kuwait and Irak before and also in Pakistan and Kosovo. But if they take your passport and dont want you to travel the show is over. We had to involve the embassy and that makes it not funny. Saudi Arabia looks modern at the top but it is a deep Islamic Country! Never forget about that! And they will drop you at the moment when you are not going the way they want it!!! Ask Rhonda if she is working as a paramedic. She is not as I know. Big troubles in a country where slavery is normal. 

Good luck and a good time. And I took only the money that was for me!!!

Have a nice Christmas!


----------



## McLenin

KSchnacki said:


> But if they take your passport and dont want you to travel the show is over. We had to involve the embassy and that makes it not funny.
> 
> *What kind of s^%$t is that ??? Nobody is taking my passport or my freedom to move away from me! *
> 
> Saudi Arabia looks modern at the top but it is a deep Islamic Country! Never forget about that! Big troubles in a country where slavery is normal.
> 
> Hey people, lets talk honestly about life over there, lets get into the details. Please, i need to know what to expect, i hate to leave all i have here for something i might regret.


----------



## McLenin

*Please take time to answer*

1.  I want to make sure that we will be treated equally, NO hating will take place at work because of our nationality. How exactly are we being treated over there as employees? 
2. *Tell me what our future employer dont want us to know??  As far as  signing contract in arabic, taxes on my pay check, vacation time , and so on*....
3.  How far is work from our compound ? How will we get to work?(taxi?rent a car?)
4. People that live or used to live there, *give me list of negative things u  dont or didnt like( in work and during off time) be honest please.* I am just preparing myself for this long trip. 

HAPPY HOLIDAYS !


----------



## ExpatMedic0

McLenin said:


> 1.  I want to make sure that we will be treated equally, NO hating will take place at work because of our nationality. How exactly are we being treated over there as employees?
> 2. *Tell me what our future employer dont want us to know??  As far as  signing contract in arabic, taxes on my pay check, vacation time , and so on*....
> 3.  How far is work from our compound ? How will we get to work?(taxi?rent a car?)
> 4. People that live or used to live there, *give me list of negative things u  dont or didnt like( in work and during off time) be honest please.* I am just preparing myself for this long trip.
> 
> HAPPY HOLIDAYS !



I think this forum thread maybe our best bet for information. I am glad the German posted here with views that aren't always positive so we can all realize this may not be a trip down lolly pop lane. 
I am still excited and want to get over there, but I am always expecting the unexpected and some surprises. 
I think the German Paramedic,  Jay from Action Avation, Omar the local at SRCA, and the female RN/EMT-P are all great resources for information and questions from all sides.

Mclenin does bring up some interesting points.
I would like to hear some responses from those who may know the answers to some of his above questions.


----------



## Sweety

The passport problem is widespread. In hospitals it is handed in to the hospital passport office and returned when you apply for a visa to go on vacation or exit the country. It is not usually a problem. It is written in our contracts therefore we are aware of it. 

Check with the Red crescent if this is required. The guys I know didn't have to and are able to obtain mutiple entry exit visas (valid for 6 months). If it is not in your contract do not worry.

Communication can be a problem here. Rules change and nobody informs anyone. 

If Rhonda is not working as a Paramedic is it because she is a female? I am and I know I can't work the streets with the Red crescent. It's the way it is here, we can't change it. She should get a job at the hospital where females do respond to calls and do transfers. 

Its an adventure and a challenge, worth it if you have the right attitude.


----------



## WTEngel

Alrighty....a lot of action has been going on here lately!

So I received my e tickets from the SRCA today, I travel January 13th, arrive January 14th. I am not looking forward to a 15 hour airplane ride!

As for the contracts being completely in Arabic, one of the guys currently there says that used to be the case, but now they are split, side by side English and Arabic, similar to the documents many have received in the mail from SRCA. He said they have changed this because of the MANY complaints they received, so the process seems to be on the level and honest now.

I have seen some posts with concerns. I have been talking to a few people, some who have been over there in the past, and some who are over there currently. THe person I am spoke with who is over there currently is a paramedic supervisor with SRCA, and he is American. He has been there 18 months, and his wife works there also. He said when he arrived they basically re negotiated his relocation allowance and housing, because he cam with his spouse. Basically he was under the understanding that both he and his spouse would be getting relocation and housing allowances. The Saudi's did not do this, and only gave them one relocation and housing allowance. He did not say they adjusted his pay, only that small problem with the relocation and housing. 

Now, he also said that he was over there for 8 weeks before he finally got his first paycheck. He said the paychecks have been on time and everything since, but 8 weeks is a long time. He also said that things seem to be getting better, and he does not think that would happen today, but there are no promises.

I am going to try and see if I can get him on here to post a few things. I know he has stayed with SRCA, even after all the initial problems, so we will see.

Now, as for the German folks. I will not pass judgement on the situation, as I was not there, but based on what other people have said about your possible behavior while in country, and also based on the fact that you basically admitted to taking out a loan and then leaving the country without intent to repay it, the situation must have been pretty bad, but I am not sure I would have dealt with it the same way... just my two cents...

Cheers!


----------



## KSchnacki

McLenin said:


> 1.  I want to make sure that we will be treated equally, NO hating will take place at work because of our nationality. How exactly are we being treated over there as employees?
> 2. *Tell me what our future employer dont want us to know??  As far as  signing contract in arabic, taxes on my pay check, vacation time , and so on*....
> 3.  How far is work from our compound ? How will we get to work?(taxi?rent a car?)
> 4. People that live or used to live there, *give me list of negative things u  dont or didnt like( in work and during off time) be honest please.* I am just preparing myself for this long trip.
> 
> First of all! Everybody has to make his own decision. I only want to inform you as good as I can. Some things changed after we made trouble with the embassy and other things. But the Saudis dont like that! Because they are the one. You gonna see it.
> 
> 1.) You are never equal to a Saudi. There is a stairway and they are on top. After that US, German, Canadian, Australien etc. at the end Bangladesh with about 250$ a month to live with.
> 2.) The change with the contract is right. I rember they changed it a short time before I left. But only because of our trouble we made! Rember the insurance question! If you dont get a insurance card you are not insured!!! And they will tell you if you do something wrong outside they will pay the bloodmoney of 100000SR. But how often?? Ask them about that.
> 3.) Normaly you get with Taxi to work. Or you have to rent a car. All costs are your own!
> 4.) I told you some things. And it is a far way of 500km to get a legal beer ;-)
> 
> Guys be careful! It is a experience no doubt about. But be careful with your passport. I hope it changed and you have no trouble anymore. Otherwise try to talk to Dr. Rasheed at the headquarter. He is ok. Any other Dr. from Syria or Egypt is not able to deside anything.


----------



## McLenin

_ Rember the insurance question! If you dont get a insurance card you are not insured!!! And they will tell you if you do something wrong outside they will pay the bloodmoney of 100000SR. But how often?? Ask them about that._

I need more info on this topic, please.

Will we get payed overtime? Is it 40 hours a week? 

I am having trouble understanding the travel issue. For example, in the middle of my stay over there, i will need to leave home for a week due to family emergency. Do I have to apply for a visa again?


----------



## NJmedic3250

The week, I believe, is a 48 hour work week. I was told they offer 6,8,12 and 24 hour shifts. As of now there are opportunities for overtime at a rate of time and a half. They also may compensate extra time worked in a week by giving you days off.


----------



## McLenin

_They also may compensate extra time worked in a week by giving you days off
 is it optional? or they can enforce it ?_


----------



## NJmedic3250

Unsure. I asked if it was left up to the employee on which type of compensation is utilized (OT vs days off) and was told it was left up to administration.


----------



## medic#7201

*Recent Job Offer*

I am new to this forum, I just found it while searching for info on the SRCA. I was offered a job recently and was trying to gather as much info as I can. I have spoken to DR. Nakity and he answered a few questions.

1) Single people are housed in an apt. complex that is fully furnished w/ a pool and a gym.

2) Medics work in fly cars with a Saudi National EMT, 48 hrs a week(8, 12 or 24 hr shifts). Anything over 48 is OT

3) You get 30 days vacation which can be used at the end.

4) My wife & son will be staying stateside so their insurance is not covered.

Anything else anyone can share would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks


----------



## KSchnacki

You are working normaly 48 hours. The Overtime and per diem is normaly in your salary included. So you are not getting any more days off or more money. More money is sometimes possible in Ramadan, when you have to work more then 24 hours. But that depends. You have to ask at the HQ. 

Vacation should be taken at the end of the year. But you have the chance to take some Emergency leave if something happend at home or else. 10 days I think was it. 

Make clear you have a health insurance and ask how much the insurance covers! If you have none you have to go to a basic hospital like Prince Salman. And you dont like it! Trust me. King Faisal is great or King Fahd Medical City also. But you have to check if you can go there. It is also good to make a travel insurance at SABB or the other banks. It costs about 500SR a year and covers you when you are traveling. Also at home. Check for details.

If they put you to the compound, which is now ready as I heard, last year not when they hired us, you are not getting any housing allowance. And you have to pay taxi to work by yourselfe. For that you are getting 400SR extra. That was in our case so. 

Go on the second day to your embassy and register yourself their and ask them for more advice. Follow these advice to stay safe and relaxed. 

Dont wonder, everywhere the police guys are wearing big guns. 

Dont talk to women in public which are not member of your family!!! The religion keeper dont like that. Espacially in Rihayd!!! Becareful! 

Always use the Single-Section at Restaurants. The Family-Section is only for Females and Families! 

Till prayer time take at the Kingdom-Tower a seat at the Single-Section. If you are standing around a guard will come and tell you to leave. Check it out. It is interesting.


----------



## Armor10

Hey guy's, I got my packet today via FEDEX, my contract was both in English and Arabic. Just need to get my Physical and my prints done then I'll ship it off. Everyone have a Merry Christmas


----------



## WTEngel

Hey guys, good news... I think one of the ground supervisors in KSA may be getting on here to give anyone who is interested some advice and all, so stay tuned. He has been very helpful to me...


----------



## helimedic39

Hey WTE, are you gonna be on flight or ground? I understand you are going there soon. If you are flight, i'd really like to know how it's going. I am just waiting on my paperwork and plan on being out there early feb. If you could give me some info, that would be great. Also, did you go through SRCA or action aviation? Thanks


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Can Expats carry handguns?


----------



## Sweety

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> Can Expats carry handguns?



Why would you want a handgun? Do some research on Saudi Arabia and you may be surprised to see it is safe!!!!

It is dumbass Americans that ask these stupid questions that gives us all a bad reputation.


----------



## WTEngel

I am going as a flight paramedic. All of my dealings have been through SRCA. I am definitely going to keep everyone posted once I arrive over there...

And in regards to carrying handguns... I know Saudi Arabia may not be the safest country in the world (car crashes, camel maulings, etc.) but I am fairly certain it is safer than New Jersey, NJFLGHTMDC...


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Sweety said:


> Why would you want a handgun? Do some research on Saudi Arabia and you may be surprised to see it is safe!!!!
> 
> It is dumbass Americans that ask these stupid questions that gives us all a bad reputation.



I HAVE BEEN DOING MY RESEARCH ABOUT SAUDI ARABIA. THat is how I saw THAT THEY PASSED A LAW IN 2004, AND HOW IT DEALT WITH THE KIDNAPPINGS AND BEHEADINGS OF AMERICAN CONTRACTORS. here is just one link 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52166-2004Jun18.html
Sounds safe to me, and my own personal safety means i come home alive! How does that make me a DUMBASS AMERICAN!?


----------



## WTEngel

NJ, I made my comments with my tongue firmly in my cheek, I meant no offense, sorry. Others (you know who you are) on the forum should refrain from using personal attacks, it just plain isn't nice.

If you don't feel safe then you shouldn't go...


----------



## Sweety

Hey guys

I recently caught up to share some Xmas cheer with one of the expats working for the Red crescent. Tell you he was interested in some of the comments on this thread. His advice was as follows

12 hour shifts 4 on 4 off rotation
overtime is an issue which the Manager (expat) works out with individual employee
look at contracts carefully
some of the facts & figures given by the German are outa date or inaccurate 

Have a good new year guys


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

No offense taken, I am fully aware of the dangers of NJ.


----------



## Sweety

There are many Americans over here that think they are entitled to do what they like (like carry handguns) because they are American. 

I am American and proud of the fact I was born and raised in the States however a large percentage of Americans I have met in Saudi Arabia have a chip on their shoulder or somewhat of a superiority complex that make me want to look the other way.


----------



## WTEngel

And I will have to say...being a Texan, the idea of leaving my personal armory at home does concern me a little bit... I mean I literally feel naked without my 6 shooters and bandolier....


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

I understand that if I am to go work there, that I am a visitor to the country.


----------



## McLenin

I totally agree about having a hand gun. With all due respect WTE, in New Jersey you will not find yourself sitting in front of the camera with muslims around h34r:, holding a sign that says " i will die today cause i am American", crying , begging for forgiveness. And next thing you know, your separated head is being pissed on. 
Sweety listen you smart and proud American with all the clever answers, do you know what is going to happen to you , God forbid, if you will get kidnapped? I can say this, you would wish for a quick death. But dont you worry, stupid American man like myself will do everything to defend our people.


----------



## WTEngel

Ok, let's keep it civil. Everyone has their opinion, and this is a great place to share those opinions, respectfully of course...

Keeping safety in mind is paramount. The risks are obviously greater than if you are in your home country. It is also fair to say that there are MANY expats working in that country who have done so for many years and haven't had any run ins with hostility, and they seem to actually enjoy life there.

To each their own, there is no reason to fight about it here online.


----------



## helimedic39

Just a suggestion, keeps comments like dumbass americans to yourself. We are all here for the same reason. Questions get asked and I don't think that's out of line to ask. If you do some more research, you'll see there has been an increase in attacks against helicopters and western compounds in the last attack in 2004. For some of us that have never done expat work, safety is a huge concern, so please respect that. Thanks


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

It was a bit of a W.T.F. moment reading Sweetys comments I was referred here by a recruiter from action aviation. He said it was a place to ask any questions. As one of "the 11" He recently referred too I may be there very soon. I have never left the country beside going to Canada and Mexico. So asking a question about something that is "entitled" to me as an American, as a right. I didn't know if it was even an option, what the penalties are, and of course I would go about it legaly. I was only asking casue I am trying to make an informed descision.
Ah oh well.


----------



## WTEngel

Don't let one persons attack turn you off to the forum...

I hope that just by reading the posts so far you can see that we are all trying to be helpful and honest...even though some may be a little more abrasive than others...We all have bad days.

I am excited to go, and I am counting down the days until I deploy! I will most definitely keep everyone informed as I hit the ground over there...both good and bad.

As far as carrying a gun, I think the consulate website would be the best place to get an answer to that question, although I would be willing to bet it is not an option for expats (I don't think it is even an option for citizens...) I could be wrong...it has happened many times before.

Now, with all that being said...can't we all just get along? Many of us will be seeing each other in the very near future, and I can personally say I am excited to meet each and every one of you in person and look forward to working well and saving lives with you guys...


----------



## ameriki

Hi guys!!  I am new to this forum but I see lots of questions about life here in Saudi and more specifically working for the SRCA.  I will do my best to give you honest, unbiased answers.

The stuff about handguns.....trust me I understand your concerns but that is really not necessary.  Yes there have been attacks on westerners in the past and yes there is always the possibility that it could happen again but we need to get real.  Take the appropriate precautions (same as you would in the US) and you are as safe here as you are on any street in America.  Bad people are everywhere and bad things can happen anywhere.  It is possible to legally purchase and carry guns here if you meet the requirements.  I can put you in contact with someone who can advise you on this once you get here.

From my personal viewpoint living here is great.  All of my frustrations have stemmed from work.  You will have to weigh the pro's and con's for yourself and make your own decisions.

If anyone has any questions....please feel free to ask.  I will do my best to answer them honestly.


----------



## WTEngel

Ameriki, welcome! Glad to see you here buddy...If this is who I think it is, you experience and expertise will be welcome here!

If it isn't who I think it is...your experience and expertise are still welcome...


----------



## ameriki

LOL....WTE, I am not who you think I am....I am his other half.


----------



## WTEngel

Outstanding! Then your experience and expertise are even more welcome! 

You two have been so helpful. It is great people like you that make international contracting the extended "family" that it should be! 

I look forward to meeting you guys in a few weeks...hope you and the family had an awesome Christmas!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Yeah I think the handgun thing was a fine question. There are no stupid questions everyone always says, right? In addition many of us in some states own and carry guns. I have had a concealed handgun licence for years. It is really not a big deal in many areas of the U.S. 

Different strokes for different folks 

Update on my progress: I am still tracking down some transcripts I was missing and 1 more employee letter.

Also does anyone know if I can use a notarized copy of my DD214 from active duty in place of an employer letter?


----------



## WTEngel

I would refer that question to the SRCA Recruiting department...

I was really fortunate that I did not have that many employers (5 total)...I feel very bad for you guys who have to track down 10 years or more of previous employers...what a pain!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

WTEngel said:


> I would refer that question to the SRCA Recruiting department...
> 
> I was really fortunate that I did not have that many employers (5 total)...I feel very bad for you guys who have to track down 10 years or more of previous employers...what a pain!



I was just going to give them the last 3 employers. Those are my only EMS ones I think are relevant. I think that should be fine?

WTE and my buddy Armor are really sailing through this process!

Lucky! I will do my best to catch up
I am buying a grey hound ticket to Canada dated in 2 weeks just so I can drive to the passport office in Seattle and show them I have travel in less than 14 days so I can get my passport the same day!


----------



## Sweety

ameriki said:


> The stuff about handguns.....trust me I understand your concerns but that is really not necessary.  Yes there have been attacks on westerners in the past and yes there is always the possibility that it could happen again but we need to get real.  Take the appropriate precautions (same as you would in the US) and you are as safe here as you are on any street in America.  Bad people are everywhere and bad things can happen anywhere.



Well said and welcome to the forum Ameriki. I think I got some of the boys hot under the collar this morning. I take it you are the female Flight Paramedic with the Red crescent? It would be great to meet up one day. I was told as a female I couldn't do real Paramedic work in Saudi so went back to nursing. I met an Australian or British gal that was with Red crescent on a HASH club walk that was here last year. Same frustrations I guess! Have a good new year. The Marines should have a good night, you should come!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

ameriki said:


> If anyone has any questions....please feel free to ask.  I will do my best to answer them honestly.



Hey, I am sorry If I missed another post, but who are you? It looks like you are a U.S. flight medic for SRCA?

Regards,
- Mike


----------



## ameriki

Shultz.....do not bother with your DD214 unless your primary job in the service was as a medic.  They won't know what it is.  Even if it was as a medic, your military time will not be recognized and it might even hurt you in the long run.  Concentrate on civilian jobs in the pre-hospital field.  These will be required as proof of your having worked the years in the field.

Sweety......yep.....that's me.  I have been fortunate that I have been allowed to make a few VIP runs to treat female royalty and such.  I have even taken part in transporting the medevac patients from Gaza last year and doing a simulated roadside response in the helicopter last month for the news.  Although I do get frustrated that I can't perform as a paramedic would in other parts of the world, I have done things here that no other female has done.  Small steps...that is what it will take.....one day we will be out there side by side with our male partners.  Inshalla!!


----------



## Sweety

Yes inshalla....the word that has so many meanings!!! Good on you sister for flying the flag. Do you see anything happening in the near future in regards to females? Is it on the cards so to speak? 

Was that you at the National Guard. We watched the aircraft come in wondering what was happening. 

Is there Saudi medics on the aircraft? There was a guy, looked Saudi in a blue flightsuit with the team a bit on the cute side . Was he a medic or is there doctors onboard?


----------



## ameriki

OMG Sweety!!!!!  If you saw a female in SRCA uniform getting off the helicopter...yes it was me......the Saudi in a blue flight suit acting as my partner is actually a pilot.  I can hook you up if you are interested.  As of right now.....we are not looking for any more females with the SRCA.  If this changes I will let you know.


----------



## Sweety

Wow that was you. We were a fair way off but couldn't miss the hunk!!! Is he single, married etc etc. Maybe PM Is he flying for the Red crescent?


----------



## webmedics

*SRCA vs Action Aviation*

I'm puzzled ....

Some of you still seem to be in the SRCA pipeline, others are being recruited by Action Aviation.

What's the difference? I'd been given the impression that Action had taken over that responsibility, and most of us had our resume's placed in a new pile and handed off.

Those of you doing SRCA (WTEngel, Armor and others) Are you going as SRCA employee's on a work Visa? I thought those were taking up to 6 months to get, that it was an individual contract, and even the pay varies from person to person. I was told I'd be supervisor and make all kinds of money (offer went up 3 times) each time I asked a question. Never an answer, just a "do not worry" "trust me" and then the thought that more money would make me forget the question or concern.

Jay (Action Aviation) has been nothing but forthcoming and realistic. Plenty of open communication, and reasonable requests and expectations.

Why would the rest of you continue on the SRCA path? Am I missing some thing here? Please enlighten me.


----------



## skysix

*CCW etc*

As an expat working in the CONUS - which all I am sure would agree has areas that are not safe to go in, I cannot legally buy ANY firearm, let alone a handgun or get a CCW permit. 

Same goes in Canada and other countries. Even Canadians can't get CCW permits in Canada - and there are areas in the GTO that area as bad as Jersey / East LA etc!

So if the KSA allows the same I would be surprised, pleasantly, and hope nobody messes it up for others!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I emailed Jay regarding the matter. I would like to know also.


----------



## WTEngel

I am sorry you didn't have a positive experience dealing with the SRCA. My recruitment process was fairly uneventful and very straighforward. I did not negotiate the salary, as I was offered an acceptable rate and benefits. The choice to continue down the SRCA pipeline vs. Action Aviation really isn't a choice for me, as I have already finished my recruitment process, been issued tickets for travel, and am set to go. I started my recruitment on September 1st, and had a job offer in about 10 weeks. A good majority of that time was spent by me acquiring the specific documents they required. As soon as I turned everything they required in, I got a response fairly quickly, and then moved to the next step. Was there a little redundancy? Yes, but it wasn't ridiculous in my opinion...typical red tape and HR stuff it seemed to me. I have heard other people on the forum alluding to the fact that Action might not require as many documents as the SRCA, thus making the recruitment process faster, but I don't personally know what the actual situation is. 

I have been issued a 90 day visa. I applied for an employment visa, however I am not sure if that is what I actually received, since the duration is only 90 days, which if I am correct is the typical durartion of a business visa. This may also be the duration that an initial work visa is issued for, but I am not sure. Either way, I am sure once I hit the ground over there I will get instructions on what I need to do in order to stick around legally.

Back to the gun issue...I understand the concerns and all, however think about this... If you were to actually draw your weapon and shoot someone while in Saudi Arabia, I am not sure what your chances of getting a favorable disposition in court would be. If obtaining a weapon over there is legal, which I highly doubt it is, I just feel like it puts you at risk in a whole different way, which may be equally as bad. I wouldn't want to be locked up in a foreign country for murder, especially considering the embassy most likely will not come to your aid. Just my 2 cents...


----------



## ExpatMedic0

WTE I agree with your statement. I think it was a fair question to ask though. I am not sure what "scene safety" is over there. Contractors over there presently have stated we have no security during work hours and go to some very undesirable areas of town with only our driver. The only contractors who have been attacked in the recent years over there have been Americans. 
       It sounds like we will be some of the first Americans in any large numbers working for the SRCA. I have no idea until I get over there what it is really like, but being kidnapped and winding up on some youtube video or on algerzera is something to think about.


----------



## WTEngel

Absolutely a fair question. There are no unfair questions here. Also, don't get me wrong that just because I personally would not take a gun even if it was legal, I would probably be the first person to scream like a girl and run behind one of you guys who did decide to bring a gun (if it is legal) if the poo hits the fan.

Just to clear the air, there was someone on here who had a pretty negative reaction to the gun question. It wasn't me, and I have no problem with the respectful discussion of that question by the people on this forum, just like I don't have a problem with the respectful discussion of ANY question on this forum.

I just don't want anyone to mistakenly think that I was the person who reacted very negatively to the gun question and responded disrespectfully...


----------



## Sweety

webmedics said:


> I'm puzzled ....
> 
> I was told I'd be supervisor and make all kinds of money (offer went up 3 times) each time I asked a question. Never an answer, just a "do not worry" "trust me" and then the thought that more money would make me forget the question or concern.



Hi' yall 

This is recruitment Saudi style! Happens in every industry they recruit foreigners. If they have increased the offer 3 times and are making promises like being a supervisor they must be desperate to recruit new employees. 

When working with a Saudi sponsor visas will initially be 90 days entry so you have time to apply for a residency permit. This also means they can boot you out if they dont like you in this time. This is standard practice here. 

Without residency permit you cannot do anything like open bank accounts, travel so bring some money to last least 6 weeks.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Oh I know. It was one of the people working over there currently. 
Some people don't like guns, fine by me. Some people do, which is also fine by me. 
on a side note: I am still in this middle of this recruitment paper work terror. I went to 5 different community colleges so transcript gathering is fun, along with employers. I think I am only going to provide letters for the last 2, those are the only ones that really apply to the position. Someone who works over there said its best to leave my military service out of it unless asked. So I think Ill do that also.


----------



## WTEngel

Sweety:

The residency permit is the same as iqama, correct? Also, once this is issued, do you basically just apply for the 6 month multiple entry/exit visa, and then re apply once it expires, and continue this process until you and your emplyer decide to part ways?

This is issued after your medical exam and emloyment processing on arrival right? No bank accounts or anything before this is issued? Wow, that could make life kind of tight...how long does it typically take to get the iqama after arrival?


----------



## Sweety

Yes WTE that is correct the residency permit is called the iqama. We were lucky as we do the medical inhouse at the hospital I work at. The Red crescent will arrange for you to do it at one of the government facilities. Once this is issued you can do anything like open a bank account, obtain travel visa etc. Iqama can take from a week to three.


----------



## WTEngel

Great, that's good to know! I was told by the recruiter that I would be paid my relocation bonus once my medical cleared, which I guess makes sense, since I can't use the money anyway until I have a bank account...


----------



## webmedics

*Relocation and exams*

Why wouldn't you get your relocation reimbursement after you relocated? What's a medical / physical got to do with travel?

If you can't get open any bank accounts without the residency, and you can't get residency without a job, and you can't start the job until you complete a physical.....  

Has anyone ever considered getting the physical done BEFORE leaving the CONUS? That's what the SRCA REQUIRED I do, and they had no intention of reimbursing me for this physical. Do you have any idea what that list costs to comply with? Try $1,300 after meeting my deductible with Blue Cross discount, and that didn't include the chest X-ray.

Yet another concern.

Time to open some eyes and share some information.


----------



## WTEngel

Opening some eyes sounds like a great idea webmedics...you should start with your own. 

You will get a complete physical after you arrive in KSA. This is in addition to the one you had to obtain in order to apply for your work visa. I am sorry it cost you so much to get your physical, but not anyone's fault here or at the SRCA that you have crappy insurance. My physical cost me my $25.00 office co pay, and I haven't seen another bill since. They sent us both the same physical form, so I can only say again, sorry you have crummy insurance. You are asking them for a job, not the other way around...

I am sure the reason you will not get a residency permit before you get the results of your "IN COUNTRY" physical has to do with the fact that they do not want anyone getting the benefit of the national healthcare prior to determining if they have any major underlying health issues. This leads one to reason that they would not pay a relocation bonus until it is officially determined that you will actually relocate. The physical you obtained in your home country is just the box they need checked in order to get the work visa. The physical performed by their own physicians is basically just to confirm that your physician either did not miss something, or intentionally mislead them on the physical form.

This all makes very good sense to me. I have done more than a little research on the recruitment and relocation process, and this is probably why I have not been surprised by anything and my recruitment and deployment process has gone so smoothly. You would be well served to do some more research for yourself, instead of taking 10% of what someone says and running with it as if the SRCA is out to screw you any way they can.


----------



## webmedics

*Inappropriate response and forum*

You might want to consider picking fights or making comments like that in a private forum. The PM is a great application for that. 

You can stop with the personal attacks and remarks any time. You did this once before in a long two page letter to me. 

That attitude might work well in the Military or the Fire Service, but it can get people killed if they aren't experienced or educated enough to take care of themselves in a critical thinking environment. Sharing information and eye opening is a responsible thing for anyone to do. This very active thread is a perfect example.

F.W.I.W., I did NOT receive ANY form from ANYONE. I was directed to a list, based on a website (Saudi Embassy), after a call from a travel agent in Washington DC. Not exactly the form you might have received in a package from the SRCA. I have Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield, not your run of the mill crappy or crummy Insurance company. I just have covered and not covered procedures. Perhaps the list I was told to go over for my physical was different than yours, and hence the reason we needed to share this information.

It is this inconstancy that leads me to be concerned and smart enough to ask questions.


----------



## WTEngel

Well, again, sorry to hear that things aren't going smoothly with your process. 

You seem to have a bit of a confrontational attitude yourself, considering every time you chime in to the thread, you constantly tell everyone how we need to open our eyes, and caution us about our lack of information and failure to see the warning signs.

I can assure you I possess the critical thinking skills and quick wit needed to keep myself out of trouble. Again, this is why I think my process is going so smoothly...too bad you can;t say the same for your own.

I wish you the best of luck finishing your recruitment process. Hopefully you will get the answers you are looking for here, even though they may not be the answers you are wanting to hear.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hey guys save it for the HALO battle arena once we are over there 

PS: I am really more of a battlefield guy myself.


----------



## webmedics

*Battlefield 2 Rocks*

Bring it!

I've got the perfect Battlefield 2 edition mouse and keyboard overlay, well it's more of a mutli-keyed hand pad. It's the SpeedPad N52 from Nostromo. Perhaps we could train up a squad and use it as new crew member orientation LOL!!!!

I look forward to meeting you (Schulz) in the sandpit!


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*Summer Camp*

I just don't want to go there with the idea that it's Summer camp. lol It seems that there is  somewhat of a learning curve, and I look forward to being on the rise of this project.


----------



## WTEngel

+ 1 NJ

However, I am sure I could find some spare time to shoot my co workers...All work and no play makes jack a dull boy you know...


----------



## Sweety

Boys boys boys .... 

The real sandpit is across the border if you want to play with your guns and toys. The Red crescent is a civillian EMS provider not a military service or contractor. You all sound like you are getting ready to come to the Middle East and fight some war. Oh sorry HALO is one of those games...didn't realise, luckily my housemate has a young brother.

If frustrations are running this high just with recruitment what will it be like without your wives or girlfriends when you get here 

Medicals are repeated when you arrive as another way of terminating people who do not meet certain standards. The visa medical is to stop anyone entering that may have a disease such as HIV (god forbid). There are trust issues here hence all the repeated admin and medicals etc. 

Ask questions guys whether about the employer who will sponsor you, lifestyle, system and culture. Saudi Arabia is not a holiday destination and is not like the movie The Kingdom. 

If the running around gets to you now get used to it as there is more to come when you get here. It is a big move especially if you have not travelled much outside the States. It is worth it if you want it to be.


----------



## NJmedic3250

Haha first off I haven't been on here for about a week, and I have to say, being at each other's throats even before we have a chance to live/ work together poses more of a concern to me than living in Riyadh does. lol. Im roughly half way done with the packet (hunting down those employment letters) and pretty stoked to get over there. 

It sounds like we have some eyes over there already. Any chance we could get some updated compound pictures on the forum?


----------



## NJmedic3250

PS

Lets lay off Jersey on how much worse it is... Its not THAT bad haha


----------



## JayPal

*Yup*



webmedics said:


> I'm puzzled ....
> 
> Some of you still seem to be in the SRCA pipeline, others are being recruited by Action Aviation.
> 
> What's the difference? I'd been given the impression that Action had taken over that responsibility, and most of us had our resume's placed in a new pile and handed off.
> 
> Those of you doing SRCA (WTEngel, Armor and others) Are you going as SRCA employee's on a work Visa? I thought those were taking up to 6 months to get, that it was an individual contract, and even the pay varies from person to person. I was told I'd be supervisor and make all kinds of money (offer went up 3 times) each time I asked a question. Never an answer, just a "do not worry" "trust me" and then the thought that more money would make me forget the question or concern.
> 
> Jay (Action Aviation) has been nothing but forthcoming and realistic. Plenty of open communication, and reasonable requests and expectations.
> 
> Why would the rest of you continue on the SRCA path? Am I missing some thing here? Please enlighten me.



Action Aviation has been asked to bring in medics on a six month contract to establish the HEMS service for the SRCA while they finish there recruiting process. We are able to bring people in on a business visa which only takes about 2 weeks to process and does not require any paperwork, medicals, or first born. At the end of the six months i see the options to extend with Action or transfer to the SRCA for fulltime employment. 

The benefit of being with SRCA is that you are fulltime and will be issued a residence permit to do the things like open bank accounts, buy cars. With Action we are unable to do those things and most of our employees are rotational. There are only two of us at this point that will be fulltime and this is because we were already expats living next door in Qatar. 

I am open for any questions. To clear some other items up, Action Aviation is the company who operates the HEMS service for the SRCA. We are tasked with this until at such point the SRCA is able to take over. We provide training, orientation, and oversight at the present with most of that being turned over to SRCA once they have the people. Action Aviation is the contractor and SRCA is the customer (per the MD himself). 

Guys, we are one team when we get here, and that is how I operate. It is going to take all of us to get this service up. Trust me!!


----------



## Armor10

Wow, my whole process has been going very smoothly. I made my appointment for my physical on Jan 4th. I have no Medical Insurance and had to pay $200.00 upfront. I'm seeing a PA to get it done and after looking at the three medical forms, from the SRCA I brought in. They thought that the total cost would be Approx $800.00. I worked out a payment plan with them and so the process continues. At this point, I'm going to get finger printed and send it off. After I get that back, I'll send off my paperwork.

I'm dealing directly with SRCA they have been very nice, and straight forward. My job offer was acceptable when I received it (pay, benefits,etc.) I think living and working in a foreign country, getting to meet new people. Is going to be a great adventure. Lot's of my Medic friends wish that they could do something like this.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*The medical care in Saudi*

If you were to be injured, which hospital would you go to. What are the pittfalls of medical inpatient care there. If you require blood who is it coming from, are they as strict as the red cross. Has anyone ever looked into the company global rescue if you needed to be flown home?


----------



## ameriki

*Medical Care in Saudi*

Hi Guys!!

As a government employee we are covered at the government hospitals for medical care.  This includes our dependants also.  There are also private hospitals that you can choose to use.  If you choose private....it is pay as you go....literally.  We had to pay up front before they would do anything to me.  The SRCA did pay me back the money when I presented them with the receipts.  If you are anything like me you are use to tending to your own issues as much as possible before you seek proffessional help......same system here.  The expats stick together and take care of each other as much as possible.....if more care is needed.....we go to the DR.  You can buy almost every med you can think of over the counter here.  Except narcs of course.  Most of the hospitals here operate under western standards of some description.....so don't worry about the blood issue.  If something happens to you and you need to be transported home......it is my understanding that the SRCA will take care of it.  That does not mean that they will fly you back to the US to have something minor done....if you die....they will send your body back.  This is a developed country that can take care of all medical problems.  Granted it may not be to our standard but you must look at it logically.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Question,
For those of you who have applied and took your medic somewhere other than a community college I.E. training center or internal fire department how did you provide "transcripts"?


----------



## WTEngel

I went through a hospital based program and they were able to print me a transcript. It was really simple, had my overall testing average, final exam score, and then a breakdown of clinical hours and totals. One page, simple, to the point, and it worked. It was on official letterhead and had the school's seal on it. The consulate accepted it with no problems. I believe this is one reason they want the official letter from the registrar, in order to verify that the school you are submitting a transcript from actually exists.


----------



## rhousewa

I too was in a hospital based program and did basically the same as WTE.  My school is now a Jr College based program and they have an official transcript form that they copied the old microfiche to and it is signed by the program director.  I then drafted a notarized letter explaining all this and included all the contact info for the program director.  Gaby at Rendezvous Travel said this would suffice and that a lot of people are in this same boat.  Get in touch with Gaby and she can help you out.  Jeff


----------



## muzlblast

WTEngel said:


> I would refer that question to the SRCA Recruiting department...
> 
> I was really fortunate that I did not have that many employers (5 total)...I feel very bad for you guys who have to track down 10 years or more of previous employers...what a pain!



WT,

I'm going through that now. I am waiting for the last couple of documents to come andd hopefully sending off my packet sometime next week. Please be sure to give me a call when you get there and stay in touch. It's looking like I am going to be getting there sooner than I thought. Happy New Year and take care!


----------



## Yurong

*Paramedic to the Prince*

Has anyone read "Paramedic to the Prince" yet? Its sort of an autobiography about an american paramedic (Patrick Notestine) who was in KSA for several years up to 2003. It seems to give a decent insight into what to expect from not only the healthcare system (granted I'm sure it has come a long way since then) but also living as an expatriate there. 

Anyway, my process is moving along. I've had good dialog with an SRCA recruiter and have sent off for my transcripts. I've been a medic now for about four years, and an EMT for about 4 years before that, but am waiting to push everything through until I finish my B.S. degree in paramedicine this spring.


----------



## WTEngel

Hey guys...Just FYI I have started a blog so I can keep up with everyone once I arrive in KSA. That might be a good place to follow me. I have also posted a comprehensive description of my recruitment process for anyone that may have questions or want to know more...although most of the questions have already been asked and answered here...

Blog is at:  http://travisinsaudi.blogspot.com


----------



## Sweety

Nice blog WTE!!!  Wow your only 25, How long have you been a Flight Medic, if you don't mind me asking? Reason being a friends brother who is interested in coming over is only 23 or 24 and is a little sceptical about his experience. 

Enjoy the flight to Saudi Arabia. Are you travelling business class?


----------



## Sweety

*Single or family status*

Are you guys being recruited on single or family status? Several guys I know from back home are keen to apply however their families are not able to travel for some time. Are they allowing employees families to visit on a vacation basis or will the Red crescent only pay if they relocate? In the hospitals here we are recruited as either single or family status (mostly single) which means families pay their own expenses if they want to visit.


----------



## Danbo

*Travis' Blog*

Great blog Travis, and it is very similar to my recruitment experience which started 8 July 09.
Dan


----------



## Armor10

Hey guys, checkout this web site I found about the cost of living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

http://www.tefl.com/home/col_survey...sion=9fad1961fc581111f947e98b26b81f3d&x=1&y=1

Things are pretty cheap there. I was worried, because in Kuwait a bottle of Coca Cola is $4.00 US. I wonder if they have Coke in a bottle? Nothing tastes better in the heat of the summer then Ice cold, Coke in a glass bottle.

It was my understanding that you are given three round trip tickets per year. So family and friends can visit. And one round trip ticket per year home for yourself. Is this not correct?


----------



## WTEngel

Thanks for the compliments, it is a work in progress...so I am hoping to be able to add much more after I arrive over there of course.

Sweety, I have been certified as a paramedic for 6 years now, and I have one year of flight experience and critical care transport. The other 5 years was spent with a busy metropolitan Fire / EMS system and I also worked about a year and a half in an emergency room.

Has anyone else been asked to submit their high school diploma with their documents? I was just sent a reminder e mail by SRCA HR to bring all of my documents, including my high school diploma, and it needed to be stamped by the Saudi consulate in D.C.

This is kind of a curve ball, since I was not asked to submit it with the rest of my visa paper work, which has already been returned from the consulate, and I am also on a short time table, as my plane is scheduled to leave in 9 days. I was wondering if everyone else was being asked to submit this also, and if not, be aware they may ask you. 

As for me, I am not sure what I am going to do, as I no longer have my diploma. It was lost a few years ago. I do have official high school transcripts, but they are not stamped by the consulate, and I do not know if I will be able to get them certified in time....Anyway, I wrote SRCA HR today and asked them to advise me on the situation...


----------



## Danbo

*HS Diploma*

Travis,
     I just got the HS news too.  I graduated HS in 1966 in a school that has since been torn down.  I am in the process of trying to get the transcripts, but who know how long that will take.  I have already had my college degree certified by the consulate so it seems kind of redundant, but they are probably just not aware of how our secondary school system works.  Anyway, I appreciate your blog and keeping us informed.
dan


----------



## WTEngel

My high school says 2-3 weeks for a replacement diploma. This is very frustrating, because had I known this earlier, I obviously would have ordered this long ago and been done with this and not having to accomplish this task 9 days before I depart.

I don't think this is SRCA's fault though. I think they were blind sided by the department of health over there who all of a sudden are requiring all of these documents for some reason...anyway, we will see what happens. I am intending to travel as scheduled, and tell them my diploma is a week or two behind me, and then present them with a transcript. I mean I already have my work visa, so we'll just play it by ear... 

50/50 blame... 50% me for not keeping up with my diploma, 50% them for telling me a week before I go that I need a diploma! Insha'Alla.....

Cheers


----------



## Danbo

*HS Diploma*

Travis,
   Your plan sounds good.  Fortunately I have a couple of extra weeks than you so I think I can get the transcripts, still doesn't look good for the diploma though.  I also have my work visa, so I think I'll follow your plan if I need to and it works out for you.  Again, thanks for being a rich resource.


----------



## alelkins

*More SRCA questions...*

Hey Gang...does anyone know if the Certificates of Employment are needed for the entire work history or just the Paramedic pertinent history? Do I need to include EMT Basic level experiences? How does one document a period of self employment or employment with companies that no longer exist? How concurrent employers, for example, working part-time for another ambulance company, or is SRCA just looking for the consecutive timeline?

How about families? Has anyone brought theirs or are in the process? Do they accompany the employee initially or is there a waiting period of some sort?

Sorry for all the questions, and they may have been addressed in previous posts but I did not see them. :unsure:

Thanks!!!

Al


----------



## Sweety

Has anyone asked why they require a High School Diploma? Surely being a graduate of any discipline would be held as a higher award to a high scoool diploma. What if you didn't finish high school and went to college as a mature age student? 

If it is for registration with the Saudi Health Commission they may have changed the rules. We didn't need a High School Diploma  when we registered last year.

Saudi logic guys....get used to it!!!!


----------



## WTEngel

From what I understand, the high school diploma is a Saudi Health Ministry requirment, not an SRCA requirment, which is why we are finding out about it so late in the process. So I am not really frustrated with the SRCA, it is just another hoop to jump through...Just when I thought the only hoop left for me to jump through was getting through airport security!

As far as documenting employment, you will have to ask the SRCA HR department, if that is who you are getting recruited by. If you are going through Action Aviation, I suppose you would have to ask their recruitment rep. Almost all of my employment experience overlapped, as in I was nearly always working 2 jobs at a time. I just basically documented work experience for the entire duration I have been certified as a paramedic. I did not document any of my EMT-B experience, and I did not have any periods of unemployment or self employment, so I can't help you with any advice on those issues. 

As I understand it, your pay is calculated based on years that you have actually worked in whatever discipline you are being employed in. 6 years working as a paramedic, you get paid as a 6 year medic. 10 years as an EMT B and 6 years as a medic, I think you still get paid as a 6 year medic. That being said, the most important employment documentation is letters from where you were employed as a medic, as those are directly related to how much you get paid. If you are unable to prove you have 6 years experience as a medic when you arrive, I have a feeling they might re negotiate your contract and pay you for what you can prove...

Keep in mind these are all educated guesses on my part, and I am making these assumptions based on my experience with the SRCA recruitment department. Individual results may vary...

Also, I posted pics on my blog of the current aircraft I am flying in, if anyone is interested...


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*nice blog*

I look forward to meeting all when I get there


----------



## alphatrauma

*Okay yah... so I'm a bit cynical*

I'm currently riding the fence on this one. Ill wait for the first wave to get there, then see how the ACTUAL experiences pan out. Two major concerns that I haven't seen/heard any definitive answers on:

1. passports being "held" by the employer/government
2. not being paid for x amount of weeks after starting work


I don't think that either of the above are acceptable under any circumstances. I'm not handing my passport over to anyone, nor will I be working indefinitely  waiting for backpay.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

alphatrauma said:


> I'm currently riding the fence on this one. Ill wait for the first wave to get there, then see how the ACTUAL experiences pan out. Two major concerns that I haven't seen/heard any definitive answers on:
> 
> 1. passports being "held" by the employer/government
> 2. not being paid for x amount of weeks after starting work
> 
> 
> I don't think that either of the above are acceptable under any circumstances. I'm not handing my passport over to anyone, nor will I be working indefinitely  waiting for backpay.



Hey Alpha,

Your concerns are valid. All I can say is everyone who has handed there passport over for a work visa got it mailed back.

However, once you get over there rumor is they may hold your passport(am I right everyone)

Also I think it takes up to 6 weeks before you get paid, including your bonus?

If your only working 1 day a week like me and have nothing to lose, go for it! If not maybe wait to hear back from us once we are over there haha


----------



## WTEngel

As for sending the passport in to the embassy to get your visa, that is pretty standard and a very common occurrence for many countries. 

As for giving up your passport when you arrive in Saudi, I have heard that many employers in Saudi require you to relinquish your passport when you arrive, after you receive your iqama. 

I have also heard that there are people working for the SRCA who requested not to relinquish their passport and were allowed to keep it.

I personally am going to say that I would prefer not giving up my passport, and would like to keep it in my possession. If they make an issue of it, then I will give it to them, which is the case with most employers there anyway.

Just FYI, even with your passport in your hand, you can not leave Saudi without an exit visa. In order to get an exit visa, you have to get authorization from your employer. This is typically not an issue from what I understand. So with that in mind, whether you have your passport in your hand or not, and you can not obtain an exit visa for whatever reason, you would have to escalate the matter to your embassy regardless...It isn't like just having your passport in your hand means you can leave at any time you like...they still have to give you a "hall pass" so to speak...

Someone, maybe Sweety or Ameriki correct me if I am wrong please, but this is my understanding.


----------



## EagleMedic

*Regards*

Hey ya'll: I'm new to the forum; just got my job offer by SRCA as a flight medic, it will be great to have heads up on everything with the guys either on their way or already working in the field. Please keep us posted.

     The reason why I'm asking is because I'm willing to bring my family along, but want to make sure it is 100% safe and able to make a decent living for them while deployed.

      Regards & Be safe.


----------



## alphatrauma

EagleMedic said:


> ... The reason why I'm asking is because I'm willing to bring my family along, but want to make sure it is 100% safe and able to make a decent living for them while deployed.



http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

I dare say that anything is 100%... but the State Dept site is a pretty good read.


----------



## Sweety

It is as safe as any place on the planet, even with Yemen next door.


----------



## Seaglass

WTEngel said:


> I personally am going to say that I would prefer not giving up my passport, and would like to keep it in my possession. If they make an issue of it, then I will give it to them, which is the case with most employers there anyway.



Requiring the passport for inspection before issuing a visa is normal for some countries; I wouldn't worry. Retaining a foreign employee's passport is fairly common. For that matter, some hotels abroad will also demand it when you check in. See if they'll accept a good photocopy instead. Don't know about Saudi Arabia, but it's probably worth trying. 

No matter what, always keep at least a clearly legible photocopy and your American driver's license in your possession. If they won't give the passport back, it'll make things a lot easier if you need to approach the American embassy.


----------



## alphatrauma

Sweety said:


> It is as safe as any place on the planet, even with Yemen next door.



Surely you jest

     Granted, I've never worked or lived there... but if a company rep made this statement to me, I would run the other way and never look back. 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



     Surrendering my passport is just not an option for me. I understand that "this is SOP/how it's done", but there are waaaaay too many nuances in the legal structure there that I cannot even begin to fathom.

     If this were a 1st World country, I'd consider letting them hold my passport while working in country... the Middle East? Hell no. All I need in my life is to inadvertently violate some obscure law, and end up detained. Trust me, the State Department isn't going to give 2 flying ****s about Paramedic so and so who got caught up in Riyadh on some BS. A year is a long time to be living by someone else's leave... plenty of time for something to go wrong. I'm a worse case scenario kind of guy, and the money/experience is not worth the risk for me.

To each his/her own... have fun guys and take plenty of pics


----------



## webmedics

*Saudi laws as expressed by our State Department*

Residents in Saudi Arabia who are departing the country must obtain an exit permit prior to leaving and an exit/reentry permit if they intend to return to Saudi Arabia. The Saudi sponsor's approval is required for exit permits. The written Arabic text of a contract governs employment and business arrangements under Saudi law. Before signing a contract, American companies should obtain an independent translation to ensure a full understanding of the contract's terms, limits, and agreements. No American should come to work in Saudi Arabia or make a business arrangement without having read and understood the full written contract. Verbal assurances or side letters are not binding under Saudi law. In the event of any contract dispute, the Saudi authorities refer to the contract. Since the Saudi sponsor holds the employee's passport and controls the issuance of exit permits, Americans cannot simply leave Saudi Arabia in the event of a labor or business dispute.

American citizens involved in labor disputes or employment dismissal will not be granted an exit permit prior to court resolution or abandonment of the case by the American citizen. Saudi sponsors have substantial leverage in the negotiations and may block departure

The U.S. Mission in Saudi Arabia has received several reports of Americans fined for inadvertently overstaying their permitted time in the Kingdom.

the security climate in Saudi Arabia, particularly in the Eastern Province and Riyadh, it is important to note that there remains an ongoing security threat due to the continued presence of terrorist groups, some affiliated with al Qaida, who may target Western interests, housing compounds, hotels, shopping areas and other facilities where Westerners congregate.

American citizens who choose to visit Saudi Arabia are strongly urged to avoid staying in hotels or housing compounds that do not apply stringent security measures, and also are advised to be aware of their surroundings when visiting commercial establishments frequented by Westerners. American citizens also are advised to keep a low profile, vary times and routes of travel, exercise caution while driving, entering or exiting vehicles

The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh cautions American citizens that Saudi Arabian police authorities have detained potential witnesses to crimes without charges or access to legal counsel, and with limited or delayed consular access, during the investigative stage of criminal cases, which can take months. On occasion, Saudi authorities have temporarily confiscated the personal effects of detained potential witnesses. Even when released from detention, witnesses to criminal incidents may be prohibited from leaving the country until investigation of the incident is complete.Suspects may be detained without charges or legal counsel, and with limited consular access, for months during the investigative stage of criminal cases.

In the event of a traffic accident resulting in personal injury, all persons involved (if not in the hospital) may be taken to the local police station. Drivers are likely to be held for several days until responsibility is determined and any reparations paid. In many cases, all drivers involved in the accident are held in custody regardless of fault.


----------



## muzlblast

Armor10 said:


> Wow, my whole process has been going very smoothly. I made my appointment for my physical on Jan 4th. I have no Medical Insurance and had to pay $200.00 upfront. I'm seeing a PA to get it done and after looking at the three medical forms, from the SRCA I brought in. They thought that the total cost would be Approx $800.00. I worked out a payment plan with them and so the process continues. At this point, I'm going to get finger printed and send it off. After I get that back, I'll send off my paperwork.
> 
> I'm dealing directly with SRCA they have been very nice, and straight forward. My job offer was acceptable when I received it (pay, benefits,etc.) I think living and working in a foreign country, getting to meet new people. Is going to be a great adventure. Lot's of my Medic friends wish that they could do something like this.



Armor,

Just curious about your comment regarding fingerprints. I am almost ready to send my paperwork to Gaby for the Visa and saw nothing regarding fingerprints. So far my recruitment process has been almost identitcal to WT's. 

Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Look forward to seeing all you guys over there!


----------



## Armor10

According to the FBI, if you want your criminal back ground check. Or a letter stating that you that do not have one. You need to get fingerprinted at your local law enforcement agency, and send it off to them. I sent that off a week ago now. WTEngle was just able to get his Visa with a Dept of Public Safety, Standards and Training (DPSST) Check. In Oregon, The Oregon State Police handle that, and require that you send in a fingerprint card also, for your background. The State Police check usually takes 7 business days, and after I get that back from them, I'm going to send off my visa application. If the consulate comes back and says that they want the FBI check then I'll still be ok because I have already sent it off. Because the FBI check takes 8-10 weeks to get back. So other then that, I have everything and should be sending off my paperwork next week sometime. I to look forward to meeting everyone. This is going to be a lot off fun. I sure hope they put us through a local custom's class. I have been talking to a Flight Medic who is now a PA. He spent 18 months in Saudi, and I have been trying to do as much research as I can. I think the hardest thing for me will be keeping both my feet on the ground. I always cross my legs. Or put my feet up on something, he said also that you will learn to eat with only your right hand. The Saudi's don't use Silverware, so you'll learn to roll rice balls using only one hand ETC. He said it's tricky but you'll get it.


----------



## muzlblast

Ok I got ya. Here in Florida you can pull a statewide non certified copy right off the web. No fingerprints are required. Thanks for the info, hope to see you over there soon.


----------



## Danbo

*Fingerprints and background check*

Here in NYS I went to the local PD, was fingerprinted and sent the prints and $50.00 to NYSP identification.  The records came back in two weeks.  Hope to see you guys over there soon, I'm supposed to be leaving around 31 Jan.  I've been at this process since July 09.
Danbo


----------



## j_commspec

*Is anyone actually in country yet*

I am waiting on my contract. I have done everything else. I am a Comm. Spec. (dispatcher). I am looking for anyone that has arrived. There are all kinds of speculations concerning pay and issues about handing over passports. I am looking for someone that can verify any of this
Thanks


----------



## Sweety

Have any of you boy's asked your future employer if it will be required to hand in your passports and other relevant important questions? Is it in your contracts? Ask the questions guys...get the answers in writing!

In the hospital system forfeiting passports is included in our contract. The choice is the individuals to sign or not to sign prior to accepting the position.


----------



## skysix

*Contracts*

Still waiting to see what is in the contract...


----------



## WTEngel

*3 more days*

3 more days guys...I am getting pretty excited. I will keep everyone posted about how my arrival and processing goes once I am in the country. I am arriving at around 3 PM Saudi time, which is 6 AM CST. Check for updates a few hours after that, maybe around 10 AM CST or Noon CST...somewhere around there...

Also, for anyone interested, I posted a list of the items I am bringing and everything I packed on my blog. If anyone has any suggestions about anything I may have missed then feel free to let me know.

Cheers!


----------



## Danbo

*Travis in Saudi*

Travis,
    I got my airline ticket for 27 Jan.  I asked for a couple of more days as a party was planned for me on the 30th, but if I have to go on that day I will.  I found your packing list invaluable.  Looking forward to meeting you at the end of the month.
Danbo


----------



## WTEngel

Outstanding! Good for you...I will be posting to let you know what happens when I get over there...


----------



## Danbo

*Travis in Saudi*

Rhonda already told me Scott and her will be picking you up at the airport.  I, like you, am very left handed and was concerned, but she said it isn't that big a deal.  Also, I found out I can respectfully shave off this silly, itchy, full beard I assumed I would have to grow.  Let me know what's going on, and if you would like me to pick up something from USA that you forgot.
Danbo


----------



## WTEngel

I definitely will, and perhaps I will be able to pick you up from the airport on the 27th when you arrive.


----------



## calimedic

*Saudi Red Crescent*

Has anyone been in contact with Jay Paladino, he is an American paramedic heading up the HEMS side of things for the SRCS. He is on the ground in Riyadh and should be able to provide updated information.

I spent ten years working in Saudi Arabia. So I know the country very well. although I left four years ago, most of my information should still be valid. When I was there you had to give up your passport and carry an iqama. Which is a goverment I.D. 

All companies held your passport. As far as safety, Things have gotten much safer since King Abdullah took over in 2005. Up until then the US embassy advised no american should travel to Saudi. now you should be careful as in any country. 

Obey the law's. The expats that tended to get on the wrong side of the Saudi law where the ones that flaunted Saudi law and customs. 

All that being said, I would not trade my time in Saudi a for anything. It was a rich experince to live in another culture. 

I wish all the guys good luck and a great adventure, just remember your not at home, things don't work or move as fast as you are used to. Take it all in stride and you should have a great time.

I would be remiss if I did not plug my book "Paramedic to the Prince" I have revieved some great reviews, two by medic's who are in Saudi now. Both said it should be required reading for anyone wanting to travel to the Middle East.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hey Travis when you get over find out what meds and equipment is being used on the ground and in the air. In lack of protocols It would be nice to prepare as much as possible for those behind you. GOODLUCK MAN AND TRAVEL SAFE!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

PS: Patrick I can not find your book at any local book stores. Can it only be ordered online? 

Regards
-Mike


----------



## calimedic

*my book*

My book just came out on Amazon books in December. It takes awhile to get it into bookstores, but you can buy it off amazon or ask your bookstore to order a copy.

If you get it please let me know what you think.

Thanks for looking 

Patrick


----------



## 2easy4u

*Thanks for the info.*

Hi Cali

I am going with Action Aviation on the six month contract with the option to renew or move over to SRCA. I have been in contact with Jay and he has been a great help.I should be going over around the first week or so of February.  I will have to go online and get a copy of your book. I read the piece that was on your web site,pretty interesting. Perhaps I will be able to finish the book that I am currently working on while I am in Saudi. I seems that I never have enough time to just sit down and enjoy writing. I published my first[Neck Deep] in 2005. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Neck-Deep/Ken-Barnett/e/9781595260567/?itm=1    I remember how I felt the day it was available to the public,it was great. Good luck with your book.

Ken


----------



## redcrossemt

calimedic said:


> If you get it please let me know what you think.



Patrick, thought your book was an excellent glimpse into another world, one called Saudi Arabia. I would say it is well written and filled with many laughs for those of us in medicine, and with good explanations for those not. It's one of few books I've had a hard time putting down - finished it in two days. Thank you for writing it.


----------



## calimedic

*redcrossmedic*

REDCROSS

Thank you so much for your reply. I am so pleased that you enjoyed the book. It was a labor of love that I worked on for over three years.

So when someone reads my book and likes it. It makes all the work worthwhile. Again thank you so much and all the best. Stay Safe

Patrick Tom Notestine


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*Contract*

Apparently if everything goes well I'll be in Saudi the 8th


----------



## Danbo

*To the group*

I'll be in Saudi on 4 Feb!


----------



## bsellers04

Danbo,
when did you send your paperwork to Gaby? How long did it take to get visa back?


----------



## Danbo

*paperwork*

I sent Gaby my paperwork in Sep, there where a few corrections I had to make, mostly with the passport photos.  After I resent what she needed it only took two week - three weeks to get my visa.  They are very thourouh, but I find them Friendly and fair, and, hey, it's us looking for a job in their country, I'm sure they wantt he most qualified folks they can get.  Feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance.  I want to make some great friends out there.  Any marathoners?
Danbo


----------



## bsellers04

I sent her everything the week before Christmas, but haven't heard anything back from her yet. I called to make sure she got it and she said she had sent it to the embassy and would let em know if I needed anything else.


----------



## Danbo

*Relax*

Chill man, it'll be cool.  They just work at a different pace than us hero types.  go for a long run, i actually ran 6 miles this morning at 4:30AM and 5 miles at 1700.  Inbetween lifted weights.  Great stres reliever guys.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I finely gathered all the papers up and emailed them to Dr. Nakity (employer letters, transcripts ect) Its been a week now and I haven't herd anything?


----------



## WTEngel

*Adios!*

I depart in about 12 hours. I am going to put together a checklist of documents that are required when I arrive. I know everyone has gotten the letters and all, but I thought it would be nice for you guys if I posted a list of EXACLY what I needed when I arrived and what was stamped, notarized and whatever...

FYI, for those of you packing, Saudia allows you to check two carry on items up to 70 lbs. a piece, and American Airlines will honor that same allotment if you have to fly with them to connect in D.C. or New York. The total size of the baggage cannot be over 105 inches (length+width+height for bag 1 added to length + width + height for bag 2 = < 105 inches) with neither bag being over 65 inches (length+width+height) total size. In addition to those checked items you can have one carry on for overhead storage, and one personal bag like a man purse or satchel or whatever...

Hope this helps you guys. I will spill everything else I know when I arrive!

Travis


----------



## WTEngel

Schulz, I would give it at least two or three weeks...they are processing more and more people, so I am sure it is taking longer than when I started. Believe me, once the ball starts rolling time seems to fly by...


----------



## strattamatter

Such great information here.  Thanks to everyone contributing.  Great book Patrick, couldn't put it down.  Question...  I sent my online application at the SRCA website more that 2 weeks ago.  I received an applicant number, but no other correspondence.  I've been trying to be patient, but am ready to get rolling with all the paperwork.  Anybody have any info on how long I should be waiting before I will be contacted?


----------



## WTEngel

*SRCA Processing*

My advice to you would be to start getting your paperwork in order BEFORE they contact you. Once they make initial contact, the faster you can supply them with the necessary papers, the better. If I had known what they wanted and been able to acquire it before they contacted me, I would have deployed maybe 4-6 weeks ago, there timetable not withstanding.

The things that seem to take the longest are letters of confirmation of employment from your previous pertinent employers, letters from your paramedic school, criminal background check, and letter from your licensing authority saying your cert is in good standing...

Either myself or any of the others who are moving along in this process can give you further details should you like...

Also, the only caveat to beginning to get the paperwork together now is that it may all be in vain, There are no guarantees that the SRCA will choose your application and process you... Another option would be to start processing with Action Aviation. It is the same employer (SRCA), Action Aviation is a subcontractor assisting with recruiting, and Action is also responsible for the flight and medical ops right now. There are also people on this forum processing through Action Aviation who can be of great assistance, including Jay (program director in Riyadh), who was mentioned earlier. 

As I said earlier, both processes are good, so whichever works for you and gets you over there, is clearly the best...


----------



## strattamatter

I will start getting my paperwork together now.  I don't see any reason for for my application not to be chosen outside of fulfilling all their recruitment needs. (unlikely?)  I appreciate all the info you have placed here, I will save the rest of us alot of headaches.


----------



## WTEngel

If we band together and help each other out this will be a great experience for all....I am happy to provide information helps everyone have a good easy recruitment process and saves headaches...

I am excited to work with you guys and have some fun doing the job that we love!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Travis, dont you have a plane to catch already? PS: I just had a beer for you since its going to be a while before you can have another. fly safe


----------



## WTEngel

*Hello from Riyadh!!!*

Greetings everyone! Sorry I did not write earlier, but I got off the plane and got very very busy, then very very tired...

I only have internet at the clubhouse at the compound I am in, so posting messages in the comfort of my own villa is not an option. Jet lag was not too bad for me as I already work nights, so I ended up going to bed exhausted around 2100 Riyadh time, and now I am up at 0600, feeling pretty good. Riyadh might actually make my circadian rhythms normal again!

Alright, now for the details...the plane ride on Saudi Airlines was great. They had pleanty of food and beverage and they also had a DVR type movie system that had 15 or so movies along with TV shows and music. They also had a camera feature that let you look from the belly of nose of the plane using a live camera...each seat had a tv in the backrest, so everyone has a TV.

When you arrive at the airport, you will walk a small distance to customs, which went by fairly fast (maybe 25 minutes). The you go to baggage claim. All the bags you pick up have to go through and x ray scanner. There are many assistants to help you with the baggage, for either 10 riyal (2 USD) or 10 USD, I am not sure which....I gave him 10 USD and it worked out for both of us....he hauled my heavy crap, I was happy...

When I arrived, an American who has been here a while named Scott picked me up. He is a ground supervisor for SRCA. HIs wife, his child, and him are extremely nice people.... I also met another flight medic here named Brian. Everyone has been super nice so far. The locals I have met have all been extremely nice and telling me how happy they are to see me here. One of Scott's friends, a local named Kamal actually bought everyone dinner last night. We ate at a pretty upscale restaurant. I will post pics...the food was great.

The compound I am in is small, maybe 16 villas and that is all. They are also using many of the parking spots here for SRCA vehicles. I am roomed in a 2 bed, one bath with Brian. The building itself is old, but seems to have been remodeled inside nicely. I will post pics. 

The cab fares can get quite expensive, so a few of the people I am talking to actually purchased vehicles. The gasoline is about 50 cents american a gallon, so purchasing a cheap vehicle and driving yourself actually works well...SRCA gave me a transportation allowance of about 200 USD a month, so I am not sure what I will do in the long run, but it is cabs for me for right now...All of your SRCA processing appointments, a vehicle is sent to pick you up. You only have to get your own transportation for personal trips and to and from work. 

My advice to everyone is to travel on a Wednesday and arrive on Thursday. Thursday and Friday are the weekend here, so that will give you two days to shake off the jet lag and you will also begin processing on the first day of the week (Saturday) that way you can hopefully be processed without interruption. The processin I am told takes about 2 weeks, with only a few days that you actually need to show up for, the rest is waiting on the paperwork to process. I will post a comprehensive list of everything required when I find out....

As I said earlier, the people here have been extremely nice so far, but I am not getting complacent. I have been careful to follow the rules and try not to offend anyone. I am working on getting what few pics I have taken so far up for you guys....hope everyone is well...

Cheers!


----------



## alphatrauma

Glad to hear you made it safe!

Despite my reservations, I'm pretty intrigued and look forward to hearing more actual accounts. They don't serve pork and women can't drive... my kinda town ^_^

_*tongue firmly in cheek*_


----------



## Armor10

WTEngel, glad you made it over there safe. I should be right behind you; I’m still waiting for my back ground check to come back from the Oregon State Police.  I picked up my physical med form, from my Doc yesterday in triplicate. Total cost by the way was $600.00, and that included the X-rays on a disk that I can bring with me. Maybe it was so cheap because I had a PA do my physical? Anyway that was without insurance, so out of pocket wasn’t too bad. 
          Hey I talked to my friend who worked over in Saudi for 18 months (He was a medic and is now a PA, the one that I went and saw for my Physical). I mentioned about driving and he said don’t. It’s crazy to drive over there; he said the way it works over there is that when your involved in an accident they take both people to jail. You stay in jail until the police figure out whose fault it was (This could take days). He said if you hit another person who is from another country like yourself, you have a chance at a fair investigation. If you hit a Saudi person, it’s automatically your fault.  When they conclude their investigation and it’s your fault, you pay your fine up front before you leave jail. If you can’t pay you don’t leave.   He said he was taking a patient to the hospital once, when his driver got into an accident. Because he was the medic who said the patient had to go to the hospital the police arrested him. His patient in the back was on a backboard after being in a car crash and needed to go to the ED. He told the police this; they took his pt off the gurney and put him in the back of the patrol car. The back doors wouldn’t shut so they had to pull him of the back board to shut the doors. They then flew to the hospital, when they got there they tried to take him to jail but one of the hospital administrators worked something out for him. He said it’s normal to look over, while you’re driving down the road, over there and see an eight year old driving. Don’t drive if you can help it. He said the people over there by now have the phone numbers of reliable cab people who won’t rip you off. 
Hey I’m not a marathon runner by a long shot, but I have been working on running 5k over the last 5 months and can now run 5k three times a week. I’m now working really hard on running 10k. And I have lost 17 pounds. I used to hate to run, but now I really enjoy it now. Good luck man and I hope to see you soon.


----------



## EagleMedic

*Nice...*

Good you had a good trip, that's how overseas flights are (most of 'em). Just wondering what happened with te passport matter, is that still in your possesion?, do you know what's next on the process within the next few days? Thanks for keeping us posted.

     Good luck to you, looking forward to meet ya'll in the field.


----------



## WTEngel

Scott has been here 18 months and he said buying a car was the best decision her made. The traffic is terrible, but the matter of going to jail and all is not as hyped up as everyone makes it out to be. I am not going to go cruising by any means, but it would be nice to have transportation, and many of the expats here either rent or lease to own a vehicle during their stay.

The passport matter is interesting. When you arrive you hold onto your passport until your HR processing and medical processing is complete, then you have to give your passport to the people responsible for obtaining your iqama, very similar to how you relinquish your passport in the states in order to get your visa. You pick up you iqama and passport when the process is finished, then the SRCA takes your passport and locks it into their safe. Once you have been here 30 days, you can apply for a multiple entry and exit visa, which you need your passport for. Once you get that visa, you have your passport back in your hands. 

A few points to mention about the passport, which I know is somewhat of a hot button issue to many. First, it is common practice to have to give your passport to your employer in Saudi. The state department of the USA is well aware of this, and if you have a quality color copy of your passport information page, that is enough to get your foot in the door with the US consulate here in country to get matters resolved, should you get into any trouble or need consular access. I am not saying that you want to lose your passport or that a color copy is equal to your passport, what I am saying is that having that color copy in hand is enough to grant you consular access to get the ball rolling on getting matters resolved. Second, I don't know if any of you caught this earlier in the thread, but the SRCA actually had employees (not American) take a loan from them and then leave the country without repaying it. This may have something to do with them wanting to retain passports for the first 30 days until you apply for the multiple entry and exit visa, with their permission. Lastly, the SRCA is not a fly by night contractor...they have been in business for years and as far as companies over in KSA go, they are on the up and up...

Alright, thats all for now...I have a few pics to post...


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Wow man! It must be cool finely being over there after all this work and time!

So just to get a couple things strait.... 
You have a room mate?
There are multiple compounds?
There is no internet in your room?


----------



## Sweety

Welcome to Riyadh WTE. Which part of town is your compound in? Love the velour bedhead

In the hospitals forfeiting passports is a contract requirement. If it's not in your contract then you shouldn't have to hand it in!


----------



## helimedic39

For those of you that would like some info if you have not had it yet, feel free to ask. I have been doing my recruitment through action aviation and it's been great. Just got my official contract today and have a tentative start date of Feb 1st. I too started a blog. Hopefully i can add some insight through the process I have gone through. Thanks


http://rawinsaudi.blogspot.com/


----------



## WTEngel

Yes, I currently have a room mate, but it is not bad, the villa we are in is plenty big for two people. This is temporary though, I am not sure where we will go from here. 

The compound is not new, but the rooms seem to be updated. I am pretty happy with it so far.

No internet in the room, I have to walk to the recreation area to use the internet and it is sporadic. I am purchasing an internet card today that will be maybe 60$ a month for internet, and I can use it wherever. It should work for my voice and video chatting along with basic internet needs. 

The internet is censored here, but I have not noticed it yet. It is basically the level of censorship your employer or school in America would have, so as long as you aren't looking up anything you shouldn't be, then you will not likely notice the censorship.

Everything is great so far. I am trying to answer as many questions as possible, but if it takes me a few days to get to the PMs and messages here, please forgive me. The internet is sporadic at least for the next few days...

Cheers!


----------



## WTEngel

By the way everyone, I will soon be putting together a checklist for people to utilize on arrival in KSA. One of the medics who arrived 3 weeks ago and myslef are testing the waters and trying to put together the best way for everyone to do things on arrival. Do not worry, everyone so helpful here! I am extremely pleased with my decision so far!

Everyone here so far has been extremely friendly, and mutual respect goes so far. No room for arrogance or disrespect. I am sure everyone knows this, but I feel like it is worth mentioning since there seems to be some misperception that many people in this country are rude. So far, I have been made to feel very at home!

Cheers!


----------



## rhousewa

*criminal history*

I have noticed a few people that have done a criminal history on themselves...  In Washington State you can't just go in to the local police station and get your criminal history.  You are told to go to the state patrol web site pay, your money and input your social information and send it in.  You will then receive your history on state letterhead.  I did this but was skeptical so I then ran myself again the same way an employer would through NCIC III.  That too came back over the Internet and that is what I sent to the embassy.  This past Thursday the embassy called and told me their were concerns with the way I got my history.  I explained everything and was told the history would be resubmitted with my explanation.  I have not heard back but I am going to start the FBI process ASAP.  They have not denied my attempt yet, but I am a pessimist and will plan for the worst.  My advice to all is that if all you have is a self run Internet criminal history you start a backup plan right away, it can't hurt if you don't need it.  JMO Jeff


----------



## Armor10

Thats what I was telling people. If you go back to page 25, you'll see that I sent off for my Criminal Back Ground check through the Oregon State Police. There sending me a notarized copy, I also sent off for my FBI check approx 2 weeks before I sent off for my Oregon check. Because the FBI check takes 8-10 weeks. One guy, said he was just pulling his non-certified copy off the Florida State Police web site. Why does that make any sense? Why would a company that wants notarized letters of employment from previous employers accept a non-certified copy of your criminal background that you could pull off the web or make up yourself. Save yourself the trouble get a notarized version from your State Police. And send off for your FBI check. That way if they come back and say your State Police check won't work for them. You wont have to wait an extra 8-10 weeks before you can deploy. I will send off my paperwork for my Visa next week. The only thing I'm waiting on now is my Back ground from OSP.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

It will be 2 weeks on Monday since I emailed everything to Dr. Nakity and 1 month since Dr. Nakity emailed me requesting additional paper work. I have not herd from him in a month.... Kind of getting worried


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Some one named Sarah got back to me today from SRCA recruitment by email. Asked for some addtional information regarding height weight ect... Has anyone delt with her yet?


----------



## WTEngel

There are 4 girls who work in the recruiting office, all of them are great. Sarah is nice. I will see her tomorrow and try to get a feel for how things are going. 

About the criminal history check...As long as the criminal history check is certified, it will be ok. I got my criminal history from my state department of safety (Texas DPS). It required fingerprints and had to be sent in with a small fee. When I wen tot the office they specifically asked me why I needed the check. My options to answer were for employment, travel, etc. If they ask you why and employment is an option and travel (visa) is an option, I would choose travel, even though the larger reason is employment. This way the letter may criminal history report will be worded more for the nature of obtaining a visa. This is how it worked in Texas anyway... I am just saying that an FBI check is not absolutely necessary, your state check will work, as long as it is certified. 

Life here is amazing. People are really warm to you when they hear you are American, especially if you are friendly. I am enjoying things immensely so far... I had my medical physical today...that was a CULTURE SHOCK! Nothing to worry about, it is just an experience all in itself...I don't want to spoil the surprise for anyone...

Cheers!


----------



## calimedic

*Driving in Saudi*

If you drive in Saudi and are in an accident. The only time you will go to jail is if you have hurt someone. Everyone is required to have insurance and this will cover any person you may hurt in an accident.

I owned a car my entire time in Saudi. I was in a few fender benders. You go to the police station and they assign guilt right there on the spot. A Saudi hit me and it was 100% his fault. The police said it was 50% my fault. So my insurance paid to fixing my car and he fixed his own.

All that being said. The car was the best thing I ever did. Exploring the countryside, camping in the desert. Exploring caves. You cannot do that in a taxi. Go to Jarir bookstore and buy Desert treks around Riyadh. A great way to enjoy your time off.

I hated driving into downtown Riyadh. So when I went shopping I would take a taxi. I used my car for trips to the desert, camping and exploring. Gas is cheap cheap and you can pick up a good used 4x4 and off you go.

Glad things seem to be going good. Say Hi to Jay for me.

Patrick


----------



## medic#7201

*Just got my packet*

I just received my official job offer with the sheets for the physical. What else do I need to do besides the physical?


----------



## Armor10

Well thats easy, in your packet. If you received it from the Red Crescent Authority, there should be a list. Requesting 1. Valid Passport. 2. 10 Passport Photo's. 3. Completed Visa Application Form. 4. Authorization letter from SRCA
5. Certified and Notarized Copy of your Degree. 6. Signed copy of employment contract 7. Three copies of your medical report. 8. Your Criminal background check. 9. Official College Transcripts in a sealed envelope. 10. Degree Verification Letter from the college registers office. 11. Verification from either the national or state ems board. Stating that your license is in good standing, must be in sealed envelope. 12. Three professional letters of reference. 13. Notarized Letters from your previous employers. I got my packet via FedEx on Christmas eve. So if you just started getting this all together it might take a couple more weeks to get it all. I'm kinda dragging because of the holidays. Still waiting for my background check from OSP. Forgot, no mail today on Martin Luther King's B-day. So hopefully it'll be here tomorrow.


----------



## ac dispatcher

:sad  Finally I recieved all my information, it was different than the original offer. I'm declining to accept the offer for this as well as the Very restricted internet acess they have there. I'm so used to emailing my family and friends. I'm just staying put. Good luck to the ones that go.


----------



## WTEngel

*Restricted internet...*

If you are declining because you don't think you will be able to access the internet to e mail you family and friends, you might want to reconsider.

I can get facebook, gmail, any e mail, and most American websites. I have not noticed any censorship so far, and no website I have tried to visit has been denied yet...

Now some things are censored, but like I said, these are basically the same things that would be censored at work or school...sexual in nature primarily...


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Travis,

did you get a feel for things in the recruitment office at all? They hired my friend who post on here under "armor" and I was hoping to catch up with him in the process.


----------



## flightwatch67

Do you have your checklist ready yet?


----------



## j_commspec

AC/ Dispatcher.
The e-mail you sent me said your did not get a check for 6o days after you arived and it was 40,000 dollars less, In your post on here you said you are staying put because your final offer was less than what you were quoted. I am just trying to get the real story. Were you ever actually in Saudi or did you just decided not to go because of internet issues. Could you please clarify.
Thanks


----------



## Armor10

Good news everyone, I sent my completed packet to the visa handler in Washington DC. She will receive my packet on Monday Jan 25th. I wonder how long it's going to take to get my work visa? I'm starting to get a little excited.


----------



## Armor10

How far along is everyone else? Anyone else ready to send off there packet yet? If so maybe we can coordinate flying over together. If you haven't sent off your packet yet, what is everyone waiting for? For me it was my background check, with all the holidays it was really dragging.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

maybe if it dident take 3 weeks for them to reply to each email I send I would be further along in this process.....:wacko:


----------



## helimedic39

Sent my paperwork off to D.C for visa. I'm told I will have it back by the 29th. Armor, i hear it's moving quite fast. Only 3 days to process it plus the shipping. I just sent mine out the other day and its a total time of 8 days. Once I receive the visa back, my departure will be Feb 15th. Things have moved fast for my process. Hope it's going well for everyone else


----------



## helimedic39

Is anyone else going through Action Aviation?


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*going through Action Aviation*

I am going through Action, and I mailed my visa last fri, and I received it today
I am due in on Feb 8th


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

How is that checklist going


----------



## ExpatMedic0

well I got an email from SRCA recruitment today it said "You will hear from us very soon about the job offer." Good to know they have not forgotten about me!


----------



## Tony Muir

Mate - after 5 months of persistence, it has all finally paid off, I have my visa and should be arriving early February.  That's after initially believing I'd be there by Christmas 2009.  Stick with it - it's an interesting process, but it seems to work - if it wasn't different, it wouldn't be an adventure, looking forward to meeting you, and everyone else in Riyadh!


----------



## Danbo

*Srca*

I went through SCRA.  I'll be in Riyadh on 4 Feb.  I'm looking forward to working with you guys.  And Tony, I agree, if it was easy, it wouldn't be an adventure.  Drive on.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*no fair*

"I had my medical physical today...that was a CULTURE SHOCK! Nothing to worry about, it is just an experience all in itself...I don't want to spoil the surprise for anyone..."
---No fair dude spill the beans dont be like that! or pm me with the details.
So as of today, have you actually started working, if not what is the projected incountry to working timeline?


----------



## Sweety

Must have been seen to by Dr Goldfinger?????:blush:


----------



## Tony Muir

Fair dinkum - 5 months to get through the selection and visa process, and then exactly five days to get my tickets.  Arrive Riyadh 10.02.10 (at 0230hrs).


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Tony Muir said:


> Fair dinkum - 5 months to get through the selection and visa process, and then exactly five days to get my tickets.  Arrive Riyadh 10.02.10 (at 0230hrs).



october 2nd 2010?


----------



## j_commspec

*The protectors*

Hey guys,
Just want to drop a line here. I am going ove to dispatch. I want you to know that I have been doing this for 16 years. Safety is my priority. I hope that ya'll will be the same way. I this will be an adventure of many kinds. I hope we are housed to gether cause that would make for some interesting conversations. I heard that they flew their first patient the other day. I bet that was exciting to break that ch***y finally. Drop me a line and give me your thoughts.


----------



## helimedic39

It's Feb 10th 2010...people from other countries write as day first, month and year....10.02.10...


----------



## mycrofft

*Does Red Crescent respond to worlwide disasters?*

Like Haiti? Or Malysia?

(Google break)

Hmm guess so! slightly under a half miliion cash plus supplies.
http://www.joc.com/node/416193


----------



## Tony Muir

schulz said:


> october 2nd 2010?



Sorry mate - our dates are written back the front to yours - 10th of Feb 2010


----------



## ExpatMedic0

yeah my bad I should have guessed that.


----------



## alelkins

*Family life*

Was curious if anyone with spouses and/or children have arrived yet?  I have a 13 yr old daughter who is worried that she is gonna be all alone and have no friends.  If there are none does anyone know if any families are coming soon.


----------



## Tony Muir

alelkins said:


> Was curious if anyone with spouses and/or children have arrived yet?  I have a 13 yr old daughter who is worried that she is gonna be all alone and have no friends.  If there are none does anyone know if any families are coming soon.



Gidday Alelkins - relax, my family are joining me in a couple of months once I sort their visas out - not 13, but a boy (4) and a girl (6).  I'll be on the ground from the 10th Feb and will post info re family accommodation etc as soon as I source it.  I know for sure that an American family have been there for a couple of years, with their young son, and there's another Aussie family on the ground as well.  In addition, Jay (Action Aviation) has been joined by his family and Greg (Jays 2IC) also has a wife and young bloke with him.  You won't be alone.


----------



## MMiz

alelkins said:


> Was curious if anyone with spouses and/or children have arrived yet?  I have a 13 yr old daughter who is worried that she is gonna be all alone and have no friends.  If there are none does anyone know if any families are coming soon.


I would hope that you live there for a while and figure things out before you decide to move your family out with you.  A foreign nation, depending on the conditions, can be extraordinarily isolating for a family and young person.


----------



## strattamatter

I have a friend moving out in about 2 months with 4y.o. 8y.o. and 17y.o.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*Waiting for a descision*

Travis, Have you started working yet? Are you technically getting paid for being in the country?


----------



## Armor10

I was wondering the same thing. The contract I got said you were paid your relocation allowance. Which is equal to one months salary upon your arrival. If you don't mind me asking? How are you doing for cash? I'm only going to be able to bring $400.00 American with me when I come over. Thats 1600.00 there money, is that going to be enough until they can get me my relocation allowance? The Visa handler received my paperwork today at 1400 Washington DC time today. So things are moving along, let us know how your doing. As far as bringing my family,(I have a wife and three kids, A 9yo boy, a 6yo girl and a 4yo boy). I'm going to feel it out for a bit, until I move them over. I'm sure it's safe but I want to get the feel of things before I trek them half way around the world.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Travis,

I would also like to know if you have got any money as of yet from the SRCA? when are you / have you got paid?

also I read your blog, is the problem they are encountering Paramedics with no college degree or Paramedics who had training courses under 1000 hours?


----------



## Sweety

Hi Travis

How are you finding Riyadh? It's a culture shock at first but you'll manage! Have you restricted your blog?


----------



## ac dispatcher

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> Travis, Have you started working yet? Are you technically getting paid for being in the country?




Not quite sure how each contract is for each job class, for me I was only paid acual work days (Duty) hope this helps!


----------



## 997

Please assure your daughter she will not be alone. There are kids of all ages on these compound and as Tony says the SRCA employees are all over Riyadh so dont worry we can find some friends for her.


----------



## 997

alelkins said:


> Was curious if anyone with spouses and/or children have arrived yet?  I have a 13 yr old daughter who is worried that she is gonna be all alone and have no friends.  If there are none does anyone know if any families are coming soon.


Please assure your daughter she will not be alone. There are kids of all ages on these compound and as Tony says the SRCA employees are all over Riyadh so dont worry we can find some friends for her.


----------



## WTEngel

Hey guys...sorry I haven't been around for a while...

You will not be paid your relocation until you officially sign your contract, which happens after pass your medical and get approved by the health council. This means most likely at least two weeks after arrival.

The SRCA has given me an advance on my relocation allowance, so don't worry, they don't let you drown without any money.

Things are going well. I haven't been approved yet, but the word is that this whole discussion is winding down and all the problems will be winding down within the next week or so. 

My problem is twofold, I do not have a "Diploma" or "Degree" I have a certificate, and my course was 940 hours. Apparently they have read somewhere that the required course length is 1,000 hours. The DOT says that an average class, with average students, will achieve average results with an average class length of 1,000 hours. The DOT set this as a recommendation, and they have it in their minds that it is a requirement.

Anyway, long story short, the SRCA is having discussions with the Health Council and educating them on how the education system in the US is different than most of the world...

Things are going to be ok, at least they got these difficulties worked out with me, so the road will be easier for everyone else....

Bear in mind, that this is my experience with the SRCA, I am not sure how everyone is being processed with Action Aviation. 

Hope all is well...be seeing some of you in a week or two...


----------



## Armor10

Wow, you were lucky, with it only being 940 hrs. in Oregon the Medic program is 3 years long. The first two years is all your prerequisites(EMT-B, Intro to Bio, Chem 104, A&P 231,232,and 233) Then the last year is the Paramedic class itself, every Mon, Wed, Fri with lab on Sat. The Paramedic class is 5 terms long, and comes out to be 1400 hrs (Thats not including your Ride time ETC). Oregon exceeds the National Standard, we do accept it, but you have to have an AAS in Emergency Medicine that meets the minimum credit hours to go along with it, if you want to get certified as a Medic in Oregon. Oregon is still so Rural in some Area's, we can do some crazy stuff. In most states we would be considered critical care medics. Where did you take your medic at?  They have had my Visa Paperwork for 3 days now, and I'm just waiting to hear back from them. I'm hoping to leave Feb 20th (a Wed like you suggested). I hope everything works out for you.


----------



## NJmedic3250

hey WT. quick question. i plan on doing a bit of travel outside the country while im over there. my question is did you apply for a multi entrance/ exit visa before your departure or is that something you do later on?


----------



## WTEngel

*Multiple entry exit visa*

You apply for your multiple entry / exit visa after you arrive. I believe you have to be here for at least 30 days and have the approval of your employer (not a problem...SRCA allows you to get it)...

I believe it cost 200 USD, and is good for as many entries and exits you want in 6 months. 

In regards to Oregon's strict requirements, if you add up my EMT B, pre requisite sciences, etc. my time is far more than 940 hours, however, if you just look at the hours gained solely in paramedic curriculum, it is 940 hours...things are different in every state...it all comes down to what you do after you get that cert.

I think they are clamping down on who they are recognizing not because they are questioning America's standards, but they are looking at EVERYONE'S standards, my problems are kind of an off shoot of that...I will keep everyone posted on how things go...I am thinking this will get resolved in the next week.

Keep in mind, I am going through the SRCA process, I am not sure what is up with the Action guys...


----------



## helimedic39

Well i can say on the action side that we need to bring all our documents but since we are employed with action we do not have to go through the same process as SRCA. Basically once we arrive in country, we will be put right into training.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Yes please keep us up to date WT. I would not worry to much about your education, especially if you have years of experience and a good scope of practice. Do you have your national also? Its been about a week since I have herd from recruitment again stating "You should hear back from us very soon about a job offer" Before they reply to me they are probably figuring things out with you and the current issues I would imagine before they reply to anymore of us.

If for some reason this falls through for me, I have filed reciprocity into Hawaii and just got approved for my Hawaii MICT Paramedic licence! I would rather go to saudi, make some money, pay off some debt, then move to Hawaii though.

   PS:  Armor and I are both from Oregon and use to work together doing race track response. He is just jealous I went to school in Washington and takes it out on everyone else


----------



## NJmedic3250

WT, thanks a lot for the clarification. See you out there soon


----------



## Danbo

*Documentation*

Travis,
     I'll see you Thursday in Riyadh.  I checked my NYS background letter and it lists well over 1,000 hours of training so I hope I'm ok.  I only have copies of the reference letters and fingerprint results as the KSA Embassy didn't send them back, I mentioned this to Assma and she says it appears I have everything.  Your packing list and information is invaluable and we all owe you a great debt.  Looking forward to the trip, See you Thursday, now we've got NY and Texas covered.
Dan


----------



## uh60safety

*Employment through Action Aviation*

Any newly employed pilots on here?  Questions for you if there are.


----------



## Hoppymedic

*Getting ready for interview*

I am getting ready for an interview with action aviation to go over SRCA I have been reading the posts and keeping up with it, has anyone been through the action aviation hiring process yet?


----------



## helimedic39

Hey Hoppy, I went through Action and will be leaving the 15th feb for Saudi. Feel free to ask any questions. I will answer what i can.


----------



## Hoppymedic

cool deal thanks Helimedic, when did u start the process and how difficult was it to get the ball rolling,  I have been emailing Jay back and forth and he has been good about answering any questions that have come up. I have all my paper work together and just waiting for hm to tell me to send it


----------



## helimedic39

Jay has been great. He has made this whole process fast and efficient. I think I began middle of December. Once I got all my paperwork together and my passport I was then able to move forward. It only took me 7 days to get my visa from the saudi embassy. So when the ball gets rolling, things move fast.


----------



## Hoppymedic

cool deal that is good to hear, I noticed in a post earlier from Jay that Action is a contract service that is only hiring for 6 months at a time with extensions after that time, and possibly being able to move over to a full time position with SRCA. With out the "full time" position like he said you cant open a bank account or buy a car or anything like that.  Have you asked him about the full time vs part time thing yet.  Hopefullyit will work out in our favor and things will go well, I saw the pics that WTput up on his blog, nice looking airframe i am looking forward to getting in her...


----------



## Hoppymedic

Also one other thing...

Has anyone herd anything about the fixed wing project that they have been talking about. Like what that time line looks like... ect


----------



## ExpatMedic0

You action aviation guys are making WAY better time than us SRCA guys. It sounds like us SRCA guys are averaging 4-6 months of processing on average from start of the process until in country.


----------



## Hoppymedic

yea shulz it appears so, but it seems like it is only a 6 mnth thing with option to reup... but not a full time position like with SRCA... but will find out more soon hopefully


----------



## helimedic39

my contract is actually for 1 year. It is true that we can't open up bank accounts out there so i am just having it deposited into my us account. This won't effect your taxes. Still won't have to pay them. The main reason we can't open up an account is you need to have a residence visa and we are going on a business visa as consultants.


----------



## Hoppymedic

cool Helimedic, do you have a deployment date yet? so you can go ahead and sign for a year with action? ok then i guess that quels that thought pattern... thanks much for the info


----------



## helimedic39

Well i just got my schedule today and i'm set to train the 15/16th...on shift the 17th on. I was initially told the contract was 6 months but when i actually got it, it was for 1 year. No complaints here. Makes things much easier.


----------



## Hoppymedic

ok kewl so u r in country now? would like to hear how the housing is and everything else.  My wife was over there in '07 working for KSA in EMS... she enjoyed it and has had nothing but great things to say about it... she still has a bunch of contacts over there.  what is up with the fixed wing part of this and also the jeddah base that was supposed to go up any ideas...


----------



## helimedic39

I am still in Arizona. I should have my travel confirmation early this week. I will definitely keep you informed on living. For now we are being put up in the riyadh hotel intercontinental while they acquire more compound housing. Not to sure about the fixed wing portion. I know that we are being hired as rotar and only rotar. Certainly once arriving in country and they feel whoever is not appropriate for that role, they might be able to offer something else. My contract says that i am based out of Riyadh however Jay said it's possible, not likely that I will work in Jeddah when needed. So that possibility does exist. I will take lots of pictures since i like photography a lot. The helicopter is nice. They compare it to a agusta koala a119 with a little bit more power. The config inside is good.


----------



## Hoppymedic

yea i saw the pics that travis posted on his blog, she looks nice, and appears to have a great track record from what i have researched... well good deal hopefully i will get the cahnce to see u over there, soon hopefully, hey btw what do u know about trauma flight in scottsdale


----------



## helimedic39

Trauma flight is a fairly new service. They are flying a jet ranger. Not a strong program. This state has way too many helicopters, its ridiculous. They are based out of sun city west i believe at boswell hospital. I don't know too much about it though.


----------



## akflightmedic

helimedic39 said:


> This won't effect your taxes. Still won't have to pay them.



1. If you spend more than 35 days inside the US, you will have to pay full taxes.

Ways to avoid this are to switch around your tax years and not file as a typical calendar year. It is easy to do but you can get in over your head without the help of a CPA. Speaking of tax assistance, screen your tax people because most have no clue about overseas tax exemption laws and rules (especially those workers that set up for tax season at grocery stores, etc).

2. If you are employed by an American company, you still have to pay FICA/Medicare taxes. Regardless of them being based out of Dubai, Bangalore, or the UK, if their parent company is American you will have to pay. If not, then you are good to go.

I will use KBR as an example. KBR is out of Texas, yet they created a subsidiary company in Dubai called Service Employees International. All the contractors that worked for KBR were actually working for SEii. Then George Bush passed the Heart Act in 2006 which required them to start withholding the previous mentioned taxes.

As I said, as long as the company is not American based in any way, either offices there or parent company, then you are excluded from taxes.

In addition to that, part of the act also changed the way we do pay when it is time. I have written this before in other threads.

Previously (using rough numbers here for example only) if you earned 100K for the year, the first 80K was tax exempt and then you would pay taxes on 20K at the 20K tax base.

Now if you earn 100K, you will pay taxes on the remaining 20K at the 100K tax base.

Big difference...

Why is this stuff important?

Imagine if you take this job and you spend your first holiday back home and you are watching the days carefully.

Then you encounter a family emergency later in the year that requires you to be home as well. Go over your days and you now owe a lot of money...seen it happen many times.

Best advice is to stay abroad and not risk it. Those of you with family there, great. Tell inlaws and grandparents they can come over to visit, but I would not do any trips home period unless absolutely necessary.

Also remember if you get terminated for whatever reason, unless you start another overseas job soon, you will pay taxes and then basically based on the wages you guys are earning...all of this would have been pointless cause no tax is the only thing that makes it financially worth it.

Good luck to you all!


----------



## akflightmedic

Forgot to mention....

Save EVERY receipt!!

Anything you spend on or for the job, SAVE IT!

Food, gas, mileage to airports, tolls, taxis, boxes mailed, storage fees, new clothes...you name it. Anything at all...SAVE IT!

Also document everything you spent "moving" for a new job as that is a HUGE tax write off.


----------



## helimedic39

Yeah i didn't mean to put it so simply. I did all the research into it. But you did add some points that are good to know. So thank you.


----------



## rhousewa

*US Taxes*

For those who are planning on being gone take a look at the IRS web site and download the instructions for Form 2555, it is helpful reading.  As of 2009 the tax exempt figure was $91,400.00 and will likely go up again some unknown amount for 2010 .  As mentioned earlier talk to a CPA who is familiar with foreign earned income because there are a number of things that will dissolve your tax exempt status.  Keep track of your business expenses as you will be able to write off at least some percentage of them.  Talk to a good accountant and read the instructions for Form 2555 because that is what you will have to file with your return.  Jeff


----------



## j_commspec

*Paying Taxes*

I would like to add some information about taxes. I was recieving all kinds of information about money being tax free. I decided that I would find out for sure what the rules were. here is what I found out. The only way the money is tax free is if you are out of the country for 330 consecutive days. If you aren't then you will be taxed at 25%. If you are considered a contractor, which I will be, then you must pay an estimated tax every quarter. I am going ove to work for Action Aviation. I will pat estimated tax quarterly. I will then file my taxes accordingly next year and get most of it back. 
 That is what the IRS told me. I called and and spoke to someone in their international jobs department. 
If anyone knows any comm. specs. already over there please let me know.


----------



## akflightmedic

j_commspec said:


> I would like to add some information about taxes. I was recieving all kinds of information about money being tax free. I decided that I would find out for sure what the rules were. here is what I found out. The only way the money is tax free is if you are out of the country for 330 consecutive days. If you aren't then you will be taxed at 25%. If you are considered a contractor, which I will be, then you must pay an estimated tax every quarter. I am going ove to work for Action Aviation. I will pat estimated tax quarterly. I will then file my taxes accordingly next year and get most of it back.
> That is what the IRS told me. I called and and spoke to someone in their international jobs department.
> If anyone knows any comm. specs. already over there please let me know.



You are incorrect and may have misunderstood or wrote down incorrect information.

You do NOT have to be out of the country 330 consecutive days, you have to be outside the country for 330 days in a 12 consecutive month period.

For example, if you arrive Jan 1st, it makes it rather easy for tax keeping purposes.

However if you arrive Sept 1st 2010, then when April 2011 rolls around, you defer your taxes until October and you then file once you pass the Sept mark and you use that for your overseas year.

If you stay on, you keep doing it. If you decide to return, then you pay taxes for Oct-Dec to close out that year and get back on cycle.

If it were 330 days consecutive, then there never would have been an Iraq war or Afghan War cause NO contractor would hang around for that long.


----------



## j_commspec

*Taxes*

I hope your information is correct. I wouls like to say that I really like your last thought on your post. I think what you said about the Iraq ans Afghan wars is a very good way to look at it.
Thanks for responding


----------



## akflightmedic

Having worked overseas for 4+ years now, I think I am tax savvy in regards to the foreign earned income arena...


----------



## j_commspec

*my reply*

I appreciate your expertise on this matter and your willingness to share. I will definitely be keeping it for future reference
Thanks


----------



## Hoppymedic

Thanks AK that is really usefull info....


----------



## helimedic39

Well i got my plane ticket! I will see you all out there. Best of luck with everyone going through the process. Look forward to meeting ya'll


----------



## Hoppymedic

good deal helimedic... enjoy the flight keep us up to date on how things r over there and let me know if there is anything that you need me to bring with me for ya.... take care and see ya over there


----------



## helimedic39

I will definitely do that. Thanks a bunch and see you on the other side of the pond


----------



## bmc911

hello everyone. im new to this site, this is my first post

i am currently waiting on my visa approval to go over and work as a medic with the SRCA, should know in a nother 2-3 weeks

just wanted to throw that out there and say hey


----------



## Armor10

Well I got news on my visa today. Everything is a go, except my degree. Their having a problem with it from some reason. I sent them a copy of my degree, a signed, embossed, degree verification letter, on school letter head from the registers office,with info on how to contact him and my sealed official transcripts. I'm not sure why they wouldn't think that those documents would be sufficient. But the Visa handler is going to go back and explain that my college transcripts are the most official documents that the college can give me. The official transcripts have some kind of special anti -counterfeit measures. They have raised boarders and you can't photo copy them without saying copy on the copies. The college has be in business since 1964, so it's not like it's some online fly by night thing. Frustrating because's this is the only thing thats holding me up. Anyone else run into this problem? Who would of thought that having a degree would hold me up.


----------



## Hoppymedic

that bites Armor, r u going through SRCA or action? was just curious... i may have missed it earlier in the blog.... good luck with that though, it sounds like after it is explained that there should not be a problem with it...


----------



## Hoppymedic

welcome BMC glad to have ya onboard... I am at the starting line so to speak going to hopefully go through action aviation... am waiting for phone interview from them... so once that ball gets going we will see what happens


----------



## Armor10

I'm going through SRCA, it's been a long process. The guys with Action are getting over in like 2 months. So far it's been almost a four month process for me. But our contracts are for a full year. So I just hope it all works out soon. It probably will.


----------



## Danbo

*Riyadh bound*

Hey Guys, I'm leaving in about 8 hours.  I went throuugh SRCA and it took me since June, so hang in there.  Even as long as it took, it's hard to believe that it has finally come around.  Oh, and with the degree thing, they already had my college degree, and I still had to get my High School transcripts after that.  It's just the way it is.  See you guys over there and feel free to ask me questions or share information as soon as I get internet access.  Hope this works out for all of us.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Danbo goodluck enjoy the flight and say hi to Travis for us.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

On another note, I applied Dec/1 2009 about a week or so after armor. Hes process is going way faster than mine. I am still waiting for a phone interview, after a ton of back and forth emails of documents they requested. They said 2 weeks ago I should hear from them about a job offer "very soon"


----------



## bmc911

yah, ive been goin at it since august or so. my visa app hit the embassy about a week and a half ago, cant wait for the transcript fun. we will see i guess. hey good luck danbo, hopefully ill see you soon


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I checked Travis's blog today and he was approved! I hope this helps speed things up for the other U.S. medics heading over!


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

"The guys with Action are getting over in like 2 months. So far it's been almost a four month process for me. But our contracts are for a full year. So I just hope it all works out soon. It probably will."

I spoke to the people form Action on 12/20/09 and I'm arriving in Saudi on Saturday.


----------



## helimedic39

Safe travel new jersey and danbo. I will see you guys on the 16th.


----------



## JAXDAD

Has anyone contacted the state dept for any information ? It might be a wise idea


----------



## strattamatter

I applied online at the SRCA website about 40 days ago.  Heard nothing back ever after several emails trying to confirm they received my application.  I finally decided to re-apply online.  I received an email back within 5 hours requesting all the paperwork.  Guess they just lost my first application the first time.  Trying to just go with the flow.  I don't mind a slow process,it gives me more time to get the basics of Arabic down...Rosetta Stone.


----------



## bmc911

yah man, i think theres several people monitoring the emails. ive had to email several times before getting a response. just keep on them, if you dont hear back in a day or 2 just shoot another email whatever it might be about. ive had to send requested items numerous times. to save some time dont wait for them to request something again, just keep asking if it was recieved til they respond.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Did everyone that was hired here get a phone interview?


----------



## bmc911

i spoke with a doctor on the phone but it wasnt an interveiw, i didnt have any kind of verbal interveiw


----------



## ExpatMedic0

That was prob Dr. Nakity? What kind of stuff does he talk to you about on the phone?


----------



## ac dispatcher

*guys as on who has worked for AA i want to make certain that you are aware*



NJFLGHTMDC said:


> "The guys with Action are getting over in like 2 months. So far it's been almost a four month process for me. But our contracts are for a full year. So I just hope it all works out soon. It probably will."
> 
> I spoke to the people form Action on 12/20/09 and I'm arriving in Saudi on
> 
> Saturday.



Just because you have worked through the phone interviews and were sent a contract does NOT mean you will absolutely have a job once you arrive!  They bring several canidates over will just over half retaining employement. Good luck to all i hope you all done your homework and have acually talked to AA employees who have stayed after arriving.


----------



## helimedic39

There is a 60 day probation period that they can send you home if you are not what they were looking for. We all are going there with a job. It's not like they are saying come over and see if we put you to work. Nobody would go if that was the case, or i'd at least hope so. You just gotta show and prove yourself and you are good to go.


----------



## Hoppymedic

from my understanding you have to be "hired on" before they can deploy you, but like helimedic said, if you are not ehat they are looking for then they can and wil send you packing.  the hiring process is supposed to eliminate that preblem but we all now that some look better on paper than in real life


----------



## medic75

*new member*

Hi everybody......

I am new to this forum. I am from India. I have a question , is it mandatory to have military experience to work with SRCA, because in India military service is not compulsary, so I don't have military experience.

Regards


----------



## ExpatMedic0

medic75 said:


> Hi everybody......
> 
> I am new to this forum. I am from India. I have a question , is it mandatory to have military experience to work with SRCA, because in India military service is not compulsary, so I don't have military experience.
> 
> Regards



SRCA employees on this thread have said military experience will HURT you in another country. so it is good you dont have it


----------



## ExpatMedic0

ac dispatcher said:


> Just because you have worked through the phone interviews and were sent a contract does NOT mean you will absolutely have a job once you arrive!  They bring several canidates over will just over half retaining employement. Good luck to all i hope you all done your homework and have acually talked to AA employees who have stayed after arriving.



only half retain employment? Where did you get those stats?


----------



## Hoppymedic

here is the only  problem i may have with that schulz, i was a military medevac guy so most of my time in the air has been with the military, so in order for that to count i have to mention it


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I think its screwed up myself, I was 6 years Army infantry... and what I find thats most stupid about it is that almost every country in the world REQUIRES that you serve some time in there military... so I just dont understand why it counts against you so much?


----------



## dtrojan07

*Hi*

Hello I am new to this Forum and very interested in this.. I have got my VISA and all approved and ready to deploy! NOW the nail biting starts...Any advise for anyone already over there would be greatly appreciated?
Thank you


----------



## dtrojan07

schulz said:


> I was suppose to go to Kuwait with CHS but the security clearance got my friend and I tied up in months of red tape and problems.


Just a quick note about CHS and the DOD sf-86..CHS is working those guys and girls 72hr shifts and 24 off with NO overtime payment..they are working BLS..They have also renigged and many things including the bonus and have re wrote their contract accodingly..people are not getting their vacataions approved to go home for their 30 days..moral is in the dumps...alot of the medic were supposed to go to afgan from kuwait now they are not and are being told they with stay in kuwait..


----------



## WTEngel

*Military experience*

...


----------



## Hoppymedic

how is it going travis.... U finding thigs ok... saw the pics of the bird she looks nice... hope all is well


----------



## ExpatMedic0

ah! I herd some rumors about that. Hopefully the guy who was asking me about his wife getting hired with them on this thread reads this.



dtrojan07 said:


> Just a quick note about CHS and the DOD sf-86..CHS is working those guys and girls 72hr shifts and 24 off with NO overtime payment..they are working BLS..They have also renigged and many things including the bonus and have re wrote their contract accodingly..people are not getting their vacataions approved to go home for their 30 days..moral is in the dumps...alot of the medic were supposed to go to afgan from kuwait now they are not and are being told they with stay in kuwait..


----------



## webmedics

*Travis' blog*

Can someone please repost the the blog? I can't imagine surfing 40 plus pages of thread to find it.


----------



## alphatrauma

*page 23*



webmedics said:


> Can someone please repost the the blog? I can't imagine surfing 40 plus pages of thread to find it.



travisinsaudi.blogspot.com

... I was bored


----------



## Hoppymedic

that was me schulz my wife is finishing up her GBI stuff her SF 86 is completed and she is getting ready to deploy... things have actually went well with the process so far, so i guess we will wait and see what happens,
but once again it is goo to have the info to process and put it all together.  She made a call today and asked some questions, evedently they did have an issue but the indavidual that it was around is no longer with CHS, so hopefully there will be no problems...


----------



## dtrojan07

Hoppymedic said:


> that was me schulz my wife is finishing up her GBI stuff her SF 86 is completed and she is getting ready to deploy... things have actually went well with the process so far, so i guess we will wait and see what happens,
> but once again it is goo to have the info to process and put it all together.  She made a call today and asked some questions, evedently they did have an issue but the indavidual that it was around is no longer with CHS, so hopefully there will be no problems...


The 100+ page SF-86 is completed and clearance approved? Big Dif! Mine was completed  last July and I am still waiting TWICE i was told that 1. my papers were misplaced and never got assigned to a investigator for 3 months THEN 2. They lost some papers that i had signed and they sent a investigator to my station to have me resign some papers. 
CHS does treat their people really good HERE.. At the Cape we were at a awsome hotel great food plus per diem money...They do currently have a FEMA contract pending for a clinic in Haiti..I was told just last week that they may send me to Haiti for 9 months of my 12month Kuwait contract then finish out in Kuwait.
Since I do keep in contact with my friends at CHS and are currently in Kuwait. I can tell you there are alot of opening there for a reason. They don't have enough people to fill shifts to allow people to take their vacations..I personally think that they are feeling growing pains and are having issues working them all out...In general they are a great group of people, However the state side people are disconected from the reality of deployment and dealing with employees over seas.
The apartmens are really nice over there..i have a few photos i will try to post one here for you if i can figure this out! 






http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=78548415&albumID=3047289&imageID=54921923

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=78548415&albumID=3047289&imageID=54921929


----------



## akflightmedic

dtrojan07 said:


> alot of the medic were supposed to go to afgan from kuwait now they are not and are being told they with stay in kuwait..



Because they were fired by DynCorp from their Afghan contract....that happened a couple months ago...OHS took over...


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Ill be damned, i got my job offer today!


----------



## Yurong

schulz said:


> Ill be damned, i got my job offer today!



Me Too! Or at least the preliminary offer. I sent it to a Saudi friend of mine who is employed by the palace and is finishing up his BS in EMS at EKU with me. I wanted him to look it over and see if it was comparable to other offers, So I will take a few days too look over it.


----------



## dtrojan07

*Need help please*

OK..I have my VISA and deployment date..HOWEVER when i got my passport and VISA back I am missing several documents that I will need when I get to Saudi..If anyone got their package Please look for some papers with a name close to my screename and let me know ASAP...I called the SRCA this morning and they Know of the problem and think the Saudi Embassy in DC Mixed a bunch of papers up and Gaby never checked before she sent them all out.. I do  have papers from 2 other people in my package that i did contact and am getting their papers to them...AS any of you know that are going through this process all the papers we have are a major pain to obtain:excl::excl::excl:
:wacko:
FURTHERMORE  i was sent a email that others did NOT get so i will share with all of you here on what to bring when deploying>:

We recommend the following:

1.      Carry with you on the plane – and not in your checked luggage – all of the documents that have been used by the Saudi embassy and by your travel coordinator (eg: Gabi at Rendezvous Travel)

2.      Carry five photocopies, each, of both the photo ID page and the Saudi visa page of your passport; carry 10 original prints of your passport photograph

3.      Pack a 60-day supply of any prescription medication that you may require; prescription bottles must be properly labeled and in your name

4.      Visit a major bank near you and exchange a few hundred US dollars, or the equivalent, for Saudi riyals

5.      Call your bank and your credit card issuers to double check that cards are activated for use outside of your home country

6.      Although Saudi Red Crescent will issue uniforms to you, you are welcome to pack a few additional white uniform shirts, black or navy-blue trousers and black duty shoes or boots if you feel especially attached to a particular fit or a particular brand

7.      Please give our Saudi Red Crescent contact details to a family member or a trusted friend; please note for them the time zone difference;

8.      If your government provides a registration service for citizens abroad, we recommend that you enroll online
US Department of State
http://www.state.gov

9.      Please be respectful: refrain from drinking alcoholic beverages on your day of departure; do not bring or pack in your luggage any alcohol, pornography (including digital files), pork products, knives, firearms, weapons, illegal drugs, etc.

10.     Check in for your international flight at your airport at least two hours prior to departure.


Looking forward to having you in SRCA team.


----------



## WTEngel

*It's official...*

Just wanted to let everyone know that I actually received my permit from the Health Council today, signed my contract, and turned in my iqama application. I will have my iqama Monday, and get paid on Tuesday.

Everything is worked out, and I anticipate that the rest of the guys should be processing 10 from the arrival date, barring any unforseen circumstances (missing paperwork, problems with the physical screening, etc.) In fact, because of all the education we were able to do with my case file, the guy who arrived after me actually processed in 9 days. The processing problem is smoothing out here, and things are looking good...

Things changed after the 1st of the year, but with a little bit of education on how the paramedic education system works in America, I think I have been able to pave the way for the rest of everyone to process smoothly. Like I said, my roommate processed in 9 days, and he arrived with the exact same paperwork that I did, so we have obviously gotten something worked out.

Next, I would like to mention I posted a packing list on my blog if anyone wants to check it, and also, I would like to recommend that you guys bring your Garmin or other GPS device with you...you can download the Arabian peninsula map series when you get here for 200 SAR and it will mae a huge difference when you start navigating the roads. I forgot to mention also, you may want to bring a towel. I brought 1,000 USD worth of Saudi Riyals with me, and I also brought 500 USD in American cash. You will probably never use the American cash, however should the weather get bad and the plane have to make an unscheduled landing before you arrive in Riyadh, or if you get delayed on a connection, OR any other unforseen circumstances, American cash is hand to keep with you.

 I have also started a PRIVATE google maps page that I can give people access to when they arrive on which I have marked the compound, SRCA office, Diplomatic Quarter, and a few other important places.

Sorry I have not been on in a while guys, but I am getting things squared away here. Don;t worry, for the SRCA guys, I am probably the first person you will meet when you arrive at the compound. I have become the unofficial welcoming committee. So far I have gotten the last two guys set up with no problems. 

If you are SRCA, try to send me a private message here or at my e mail 24-48 hours prior to departure. I will give you my Saudi number and contact info, so you can show it to the driver who picks you up and call me on their cell phone. We have a great group of guys so far, and we are going to mae sure that all of you showing up have a good network when you arrive and are well taken care of!

I hope this puts some of your minds at ease, and feel free to check out my blog and show it to your spouses. A few guys have found it helpful in diminishing some of the concerns them and their families have had.

Cheers! I look forward to seeing you guys!

travisinsaudi.blogspot.com


----------



## dtrojan07

Can you post some photos of the Uniforms, Ambulances, Stations Helos, etc?
THanx


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Ok now that I am further along in the process I have questions for those of you who have completed it.

1. Is there an official form I send to the NREMT to show my certificate is in good standing? How did you do this?

2.  I still need my passport should I 

A. buy a $50 greyhound ticket to Canada and make an appoint to the Seattle Passport office showing I have proof of international travel in less than 2 weeks and walk out the same day with a passport?

OR 

B. Some how obtain something from the SRCA for the Passport office to show I need a U.S. passport within 4 weeks to obtain a foreign visa?

3. Did any of you get hung up with the visa handler, if so how?


----------



## WTEngel

You do not need a letter from the NREMT stating you are in good standing, you need a letter from your state licensing authority. You need to contact the licensing authority in your state and get the letter from them. 

The passport situation is up to you...I am surprised you got an offer without a valid passport, that was required in the paperwork I needed to send in order to get the offer. Anyway, with that fact aside, how you deal with getting a passport is your business...I don't know which would be faster. I do know you can expedite the passport processing for an additional fee and they will usually turn it around in 2 or 3 weeks generally...

The only problem I had with the visa handler was that I did not receive all of my documents back. I called her when I got the visa back without the documents, and she sent me the rest of the documents overnight and I had them the next day...I have heard of others having trouble, but that isn't my story to tell...

Best of luck to you...

TE


----------



## Yurong

A couple more questions to throw into the mix. I received my preliminary offer and I had a questions. Has anyone heard if overtime is available and how it is calculated? Any bonuses added onto the final job offer for ACLS, PALS, CPR, or EMT instructors? While the offer was adequate, I have several Saudi Friends at the University I am at and they stated that overtime is usually available (if not abundant) with both the red crescent and private services over there and that I should make sure that the way overtime is handled is put into the offer, as some places will only pay for so much overtime and then give out PTO hours after that. 

Also, how many people are applying with a B.S. degree in either Emergency Medical Care, Emergency Health Services, or similar? My Saudi friends were a little surprised at the job offer and thought that for some reason it may have been computed at just an AAS level instead of a B.S. level.  

I sent all these questions to human resources and will post a reply when I get it, but I was hoping that someone else may have some insight.


----------



## helimedic39

*flight crew pic*

This is a recent of pic of the flight crew thus far


----------



## Jon

helimedic39 said:


> This is a recent of pic of the flight crew thus far


Silly Question - Are those US registration numbers on the aircraft? Why?


----------



## helimedic39

Yes they are us reg numbers, however I could not possible tell you why they have them? Maybe because they were purchased from mcdonnell/douglas and it's a U.S based company? You're guess is as good as mine


----------



## dtrojan07

schulz said:


> Ok now that I am further along in the process I have questions for those of you who have completed it.
> 
> 1. Is there an official form I send to the NREMT to show my certificate is in good standing? How did you do this?
> 
> 2.  I still need my passport should I
> 
> A. buy a $50 greyhound ticket to Canada and make an appoint to the Seattle Passport office showing I have proof of international travel in less than 2 weeks and walk out the same day with a passport?
> 
> OR
> 
> B. Some how obtain something from the SRCA for the Passport office to show I need a U.S. passport within 4 weeks to obtain a foreign visa?
> 
> 3. Did any of you get hung up with the visa handler, if so how?


I just went through the whole VISA process and what Travis discusses with the deploma vs certification..after many phone calls. I was conected with the Saudi Education diplimant in Washington  DC Embassy..Here is what we came up with..HE wants to see your NREMT ORIGINAL certificate that they mail you! the one with the Gold Foil stamp! Once he saw that it made him happy!
To get your VISA you have to put everything they ask including your passport into a envlope and sent to the VISA obtainers..and BE prepared anything they want they want next day by fedex..as everyone will attest this whole process is a few hundred dollars with all the medical stuff they want also!


----------



## Armor10

This might seem like a silly question, but to everyone over there, whats the power situation like? Do you have standard US plug in's? Are you guys using some kind of adapter? If so what kind? And how many would you recommend bringing? Are you having any issues charging your Laptop or I-phones? Just thought I should ask. On a more pleasant note, the Visa Handler should get the last key piece of info he needs today. Hopefully this will do it and I'll get my Visa approved sometime this week. All my other documents are a go, so I hope this works. Stay tuned for more info as soon as I receive it.


----------



## Yurong

Yurong said:


> A couple more questions to throw into the mix. I received my preliminary offer and I had a questions. Has anyone heard if overtime is available and how it is calculated? Any bonuses added onto the final job offer for ACLS, PALS, CPR, or EMT instructors? While the offer was adequate, I have several Saudi Friends at the University I am at and they stated that overtime is usually available (if not abundant) with both the red crescent and private services over there and that I should make sure that the way overtime is handled is put into the offer, as some places will only pay for so much overtime and then give out PTO hours after that.
> 
> Also, how many people are applying with a B.S. degree in either Emergency Medical Care, Emergency Health Services, or similar? My Saudi friends were a little surprised at the job offer and thought that for some reason it may have been computed at just an AAS level instead of a B.S. level.
> 
> I sent all these questions to human resources and will post a reply when I get it, but I was hoping that someone else may have some insight.



In reference to the above question I received the following answer this morning:

Dear Mr.Yurong ,

Your salary offer based on your associates degree and since you did not graduate yet we can not give you an offer with out having the certificate .About the overtime is going to be applied according to the Saudi Labor Law the 1 hr = 1 1/2 hr normal working hrs and it has to be approved first by the SRCA administration. 

Our priority is to offer furnished accommodation matching your life style if it will be not available we will give you hous! ing allowance . SRCA has its own instructors but if somebody chosen to be instructor he will be entitled  for instructor fee.



Regards,

Assma AL-Tuwaijri 
Human Resources / Recruiting
Saudi Red Crescent Authority

-------------------------------

It was a very fast reply so far as things have been, so that makes me feel much better. The only thing that seems kinda funky is the approval process for the overtime - they didn't say how much is available. For the people that are already in country, what have you heard about the overtime? I am hoping to come over and do nothing BUT work for the year to pay off all my undergrad debt, then stay another three or four so I can cover med school. 

Thanks for the help,

Justin


----------



## WTEngel

I would not count on overtime. I am not saying it isn't available, but it does have to be approved first.

The only thing you can count on is what they offer you in your contract. I would not come over with the anticipation that you will be making any more or any less than that.

As I said before, there may be overtime available, but the idea you have of working constantly while over here may be a little optimistic.

I would say the best reason for coming over here is for the experience. You get good medical and trauma experience. You also make a fair wage, especially considering the provided housing and lack of income taxation.

TE


----------



## dtrojan07

*Saudi Life?*

First i would like to reply to my own thread the other day about missing papers... JUST so every knows the Saudi Embassy in DC will be keeping the letter from the police to state a clean background.. ALSO when they say they want it sealed ...SEALED = Notary stamp AKA seal
I still am missing all my reference letters and i deploy next week! Grrrrrrrrrr

OK, Can anyone tell me about customs i should probably know besides the heel of the foot thing...Like I understand there is a public dress code? Is it true that it is forbidden to wear shorts and/or tank tops in public? ALSO is it true that any public display of religious pendents such as crosses or Star of David you could be arrested and possibly flogged?  True?
What about the "Chop Chop Square" I've been hearing about..Is that for real and is it true anyone can come to watch the punishments being handed out..LOL PUN intended h34r:

ALSO a couple of questions for Travis...Why does the swimming pool look half empty? or half full? lol Is the pavement around the compound smooth enough and long enough for roller bladding? Is there a work out area there?
Any luck on the hunt for a motorcycle? Should I bring you a Bedazzeler Kit? Find any used Harleys?
ALSO wanted to ask you about your Air-card..is it a USB type or PCI slot type? Are you still happy with that?

Thanks all...Be Safe!


----------



## WTEngel

Customs is a breeze. Don't bring anything that is illegal according to Saudi Law. This includes alcohol and pornography, or anything that could be considered pornography. The best advice I can give you is that if you feel like it is questionable, leave it at home. Get here and find out, and then you can have it mailed if it is ok. 

Bibles, crosses, and other religious symbols are not allowed for public display and neither is proselytizing. I know a few other guys who have packed a small bible for private use into their checked items. Islam is the official religion and public practice of other religions is against the law. The embassy does have a christian church service on Fridays that you will be allowed to attend if you choose. 

The public dress code is conservative. You are not supposed to show your knees. The best and most respectful practice is to wear long pants and a shirt. Short sleeves are fine, however tank tops are not conservative and not allowed. The shoulders and top of your arms should be covered at a minimum. Women must wear an abaya and should always carry with them a scarf or other device to cover their heads if the muttawa should request them to do so, however this is rare. It is only compulsory for muslim females to cover their face with a veil, so this is not a concern for western women, however, as I pointed out in the previous sentence, western females should be prepared to cover their head if they are requested to do so. 

The swimming pool looks half empty because it was in fact half empty. They just got it fixed this week, so it is good to go. There is a small workout room with two treadmills, and elliptical, and a trampoline. Not exactly a gym, but if you are desperate you can find a way to work out there. 

There is actually an official Harley dealer in Riyadh, but why anyone would ever ride a Harley, EVER, is beyond me...I am a BMW guy myself...

The bedazzler will not be necessary. I am likely to rent a car this month, and look into purchasing next month or the month after. Rental is relatively inexpensive, so no worries....

TE


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Travis,

Regarding the other 2 questions from Armor and the other poster...

1. What is the power situation like there? Do we need converters? If so what kind and should we bring them with us or buy them there?

2. What about the famous "Chop Chop" square, is that a rumor or do they really chop peoples hands off and stuff for stealing for the public as entertainment?

PS: I talked to Sarah again today, they want a copy of my high school diploma so I am getting that sent, I have an appointment in the passport office in Seattle next Wednesday... so things are looking good for me.

I think the physical might slow me down a week or 2 due to the money I need to pay for it.


----------



## WTEngel

Any international power adapter will work over here. The outlets come in 110 and 220, and will accept the two prong US plug. The only two US plugs it will not accept are the three prong (standard two prong with a ground post) and the two prong where one prong is slightly wider than the other...so any standard US plug that has two prongs that are the same width...there are plenty of adapters available in every store over here, so I would maybe purchase one or two for travel and buy more over here if necessary.

Chop chop square is no longer active, any executions are taken care of in private. Hands and other limbs are rarely cut off for theft, except in rare circumstances for repeat severe offenders. Why you guys are so interested in that worries me a bit...but I suppose that's your business!

TE


----------



## rhousewa

*Chop Square*

Maybe some of the people on here would just like to give everybody a hand with things?


----------



## WTEngel

*I was incorrect...*

I was incorrect, I attempted to edit my post, but it was too late.

Executions are still public, but no longer occur in chop chop square. They occur in more local venues, I am not sure where, and I am not sure when. 

Sorry about that....but props to me for correcting it within 5 minutes!

TE


----------



## dtrojan07

WTEngel said:


> I was incorrect, I attempted to edit my post, but it was too late.
> 
> Executions are still public, but no longer occur in chop chop square. They occur in more local venues, I am not sure where, and I am not sure when.
> 
> Sorry about that....but props to me for correcting it within 5 minutes!
> 
> TE


Yeah i heard they drain half the blood and sedate them first..so it is not so messy!


----------



## dtrojan07

*Uniform??*

Travis still waiting to see your custom tailor uniform? Any picks to post?
What about rollerblades on the compound, is it large enough and payment smooth enough for a good workout there?


----------



## Hoppymedic

I just found out I got a buddy on the ground over there that I was in the army with... that is wierd but will be cool to get over there and start working... hey travis, how long from boots on the ground to actually getting on shift is it taking... was just curious...


----------



## ACP/AUS.JE81

*Hi*

Hey guys

I have been following your thread for some time now.  A friend and myself are both Advanced Care Paramedics in QLD Australia, we have both just recently started our application Process with SRCA.

Initially we applied to Action Aviation, but alas have no flight experience.  So was wondering if any one who may be already over there could help us out by answering a few of our questions.

We are looking to broaden our eperience, and possibly upskill in the process.  Does anyone know what clinical proceedures, the guys over there are able to perform, and what Pharmacology they are carrying if any.

We heard a whisper they are not carrying any medications.  Hopefully this is inaccurate.


----------



## dtrojan07

ACP/AUS.JE81 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I have been following your thread for some time now.  A friend and myself are both Advanced Care Paramedics in QLD Australia, we have both just recently started our application Process with SRCA.
> 
> Initially we applied to Action Aviation, but alas have no flight experience.  So was wondering if any one who may be already over there could help us out by answering a few of our questions.
> 
> We are looking to broaden our eperience, and possibly upskill in the process.  Does anyone know what clinical proceedures, the guys over there are able to perform, and what Pharmacology they are carrying if any.
> 
> We heard a whisper they are not carrying any medications.  Hopefully this is inaccurate.


First thing you have to keep in mind is the ALS or ACLS, as most of us know it is fairly new in the middle east. I know in Kuwait they are using a glorified BLS meaning they do IVs...As A high percentage of what they see is dehydration. 
Almost the same thing in Saudi a Upgraded BLS. From what I understand about Saudi is a large amout on trauma and if you think about it most trauma is BLS as the saying goes BLS before ALS. Travis can tell you more about the runs and system..BUT we will need to hit the streets there with a  open mind, the ability to adapt, overcome,move on and improve! So, debriefing and networking will go along way to improve the system!


----------



## Bflyer

i have been reading and hearing about this air ambulance start up in Riyadh.  Can anyone tell me how many helos they are operating now and has anyone heard of them starting a fixed wing service?  

Great info on this thread, thanks everyone.


----------



## strattamatter

Anybody aware of the possibility of getting posted anywhere other than Riyadh?  I completed my "Employment Form" today, and had so sign acknowledging that.... "I shall work according to SRCA's choice of place".  On that note, my wife wants to come with me but doesn't want to be bored out of her mind.  She is a teacher now, and considering the possibility of finding a teaching contract so we can both work while we are there.  If she finds a job in Riyadh, and I end up elsewhere, well...that would defeat the purpose.


----------



## dtrojan07

strattamatter said:


> Anybody aware of the possibility of getting posted anywhere other than Riyadh?  I completed my "Employment Form" today, and had so sign acknowledging that.... "I shall work according to SRCA's choice of place".  On that note, my wife wants to come with me but doesn't want to be bored out of her mind.  She is a teacher now, and considering the possibility of finding a teaching contract so we can both work while we are there.  If she finds a job in Riyadh, and I end up elsewhere, well...that would defeat the purpose.


I will try to answer your question the best i can..others may have more info..This is a brand new program with flight and ground operations..when i started this process they have not any developed protocals..So the first people in country will work in Riyadh and to put into prospective for you Riyadh community has about 500,000 more people in it than the Chicago area..So you can imagine the major undertaken we have gotten ourselves into.
NOW, with that said from what i have been told there are some 200+ people in the application process now..as people get in country the long term objective is to expand and to set up international task forces to respond to disasters such as Haiti.. But those are things passed on to me in conversation with SRCA HR people..
There is something that everyone really needs to remember as they go through this process..SRCA is our Sponsor Most of the Red Tape we have all struggled with is beyound their control..such as the VISA process we are dealing with the Embassy. They seem to  be very picky who they let into thier country.
Here is a good link that may help you and your wife there are many job posting on there..but also keep in mind that women are NOT allowed to drive in Saudi
http://www.expatriates.com/classifieds/riy/


----------



## dtrojan07

Bflyer said:


> i have been reading and hearing about this air ambulance start up in Riyadh.  Can anyone tell me how many helos they are operating now and has anyone heard of them starting a fixed wing service?
> 
> Great info on this thread, thanks everyone.


Here is a link to a page that may answer your questions
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009102652644


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hey Guys,

REALLY good question about if the service is BLS or not and whats available to us.

I emailed Jay from AA and asked him what equipment and meds are being used on the air and ground service. I also asked about protocols. If he does not post his answer on the forum Ill copy and paste his email reply here.

See you all soon!

- Mike


----------



## helimedic39

about the protocols, i can say they are similar to that of the U.S. We will be doing RSI, all the invasive skills as a medic would be doing here state side.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hey Heli who did you hear that from? Last we herd on this forum a couple months back from an SRCA employee was that where no protocols yet. I have also herd rumors from multiple people on here that there are no meds and that any equipment beyond BLS is very limited.

It sounds like all this is changing all the time and things might be showing up now?


----------



## helimedic39

Hey schulz, I was emailed all the protocols by action aviation. Everything for adults and peds from trauma to medical. It states all the medications to be used in protocols and we also received an RSI protocol. This would have been within the last 3 weeks i'd say.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

oh wow ok. Well thats good to hear. So they have the protocols which is good but I wonder if all the ambulances, rapid response vehicles, and choppers have full sets of meds and ALS equipment yet?


----------



## dtrojan07

schulz said:


> oh wow ok. Well thats good to hear. So they have the protocols which is good but I wonder if all the ambulances, rapid response vehicles, and choppers have full sets of meds and ALS equipment yet?


Hey Schulz..Just wanted to ad the info i passed on in Thread#433...Came from a talking with Travis the other night for about an hour and I also talk with Dr Nakiti on a regular basis as since he gave me his direct number and in fact the Protocals have recently been completed..However, I can't speak for what is going on with the Action PEEPs but, the road  is going to be a slow process to get up to ALS speed as most of us know it.
Stay safe...This time next week I will be in country and will be able to pass on more!


----------



## j_commspec

*arriving soon*

Hello everyone,
 I should be heading over around the 18th or so. I am a dispatcher and was hired through Action Aviation. It has been excellent so far. There have been no delays or problems.They have been very helpful and willing to discuss any concerns.  
I have  been reading Travis' Blog and the whole experience sound great. I look forward to meeting all of you. This will be something to remember forever. 
If any of you have questions about communications or trackers or anything communications center related let me know and I will have the answers ready for you if they are available to me. 
Thanks everyone
See you there.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Can someone please email me the protocols?

3rdschulz@gmail.com


----------



## j_commspec

*protocols*

Please post the protocols. I would be very interested as I am sure everyone else would be also to see what the crew will be working with.  Thanks.  Remember we are all on the same team.  No need for measuring.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Thanks for the protocols.  I tried to upload them for everyone but the file is to large I got this error Your file of 618.1 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype.


----------



## bmc911

hey can i bother you to email me the protocols, would be greatly appreciated.

still waitin on my visa


----------



## MMiz

schulz said:


> Thanks for the protocols.  I tried to upload them for everyone but the file is to large I got this error Your file of 618.1 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype.


If you email them to me I'll post them for everyone.  I'm sure many would appreciate it.


----------



## Jon

dtrojan07 said:


> ....ALSO is it true that any public display of religious pendents such as crosses or _*Star of David*_ you could be arrested and possibly flogged?  True?



As far as I can tell... that is even more of an issue. Mideast politics being what they are, I get the distinct impression that while there are some Christian services, one would be unlikley to find any form of Jewish religious support.

One of the concerns I have with SRCA that keeps on coming up when I think about applying is that I visited Israel a few years back... from what I can tell, having Israeli stamps in my passport might get be blocked from the country.

Anyone have first hand info on this?


----------



## bmc911

i dont have first hand experience but it is my understanding that you probally wont get granted a visa if you have any Israeli ties. if you were granted a visa i would imagine you would be putting yourself in quite a shady predicament, but i dont know, thats just my thoughts. you can always email the SRCA ask their opinion


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I have herd that rumor Jon but I am not sure. You could probably ask the SRCA visa handler in DC


----------



## helimedic39

Yes you will be denied entry 100% if you have any Israel stamps on your passport. They suggest just getting a new passport so that it's clear.


----------



## alphatrauma

helimedic39 said:


> They suggest just getting a new passport so that it's clear.




My thoughts *EXACTLY*... and you can keep the old one for posterity


----------



## helimedic39

*equipment*

Also we will be using LP 12 and little portable etco2 monitors. We will have broslow bags and using stat backpacks.


----------



## dtrojan07

*Travel*

Just wanted to let everyone know that are getting ready to deploy something that i had ran into...We are permited 2 check baggage and 1 carry on and 1 personal bag..You will be told that the checked luggage is "no weight limit". This is on Saudia Airlines ONLY!! Which we are required to fly on from either New York or Washington DC...There is a NEW policy for US airlines that went into effect in Jan...OUR First bag is free and must be less than 50lbs..and we do get a second checked bag BUT that will cost $50 at the time you check the bag. SO, unless you are starting from New York or DC and want to take a 2nd Bag this will effect you. Also if you go over the size(62 linear inches)  or weight limit there are hefty charges. So pack smart 
NOW, with that said..is anyone packing a personal Jump?


----------



## helimedic39

So I spoke with a Lufthansa rep today about the baggage situation. 2 checked bags no more than 50lbs each...if you check a 3rd bag which i need to do is 250 bucks. I asked about carry on and you are allowed only 1 bag. This means you CAN'T bring a carry on and a backpack. A laptop or camera bag yes. But they made this very clear. Also the carry on can not be greater than 18lbs. I find it's hard to pack lightly eventhough I barely packed anything and yet I need 3 bags. Good luck


----------



## uh60safety

*Pilots*

Still looking to talk to any of the pilots....can someone direct me to a forum or a point of contact to answer some very brief questions? Got my contract offer today...wanna move forward but need some questions answered...PLEASE!!


----------



## uh60safety

*Pilots*

my email: uh60safety@hotmail.com ....if that helps.


----------



## WTEngel

That is incorrect. I called American Airlines prior to my departure, and they honored the same baggage allotment that I was given for Saudi Arabian airlines.

I described my baggage allotment in an earlier post, but basically it was 2 bags up to 70 lbs. checked, one carry on, and one personal bag. This should be more than adequate for anything you want or need to bring with you.

TE


----------



## dtrojan07

WTEngel said:


> That is incorrect. I called American Airlines prior to my departure, and they honored the same baggage allotment that I was given for Saudi Arabian airlines.
> 
> I described my baggage allotment in an earlier post, but basically it was 2 bags up to 70 lbs. checked, one carry on, and one personal bag. This should be more than adequate for anything you want or need to bring with you.
> 
> TE


Well, my connecting flight is with United and they have told me that since i am starting on their airline i have to follow their rules..and I will be charged the $50 when I check the second bag. They also told me that the new Policies just went into effect Jan 15th.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I got an email back from Jay today with AA. I will paste it below.... Given what he said in the email and the copyright notice I found at the end of the protocols we should NOT post them to the publc on the forums with out permission.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike,

The protocols are advanced with RSI, Surgical cric, and plenty of medications to boot. We are having some trouble getting the medicines, but they are coming. I would send you a copy, but do want them to get out and really, it is not my place. As far as equipment, LP12's, EZIO's, and King LT's are just some of what we are using.

Hope that helps and take care,

Jay Paladino


----------



## dtrojan07

schulz said:


> I got an email back from Jay today with AA. I will paste it below.... Given what he said in the email and the copyright notice I found at the end of the protocols we should NOT post them to the publc on the forums with out permission.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike,
> 
> The protocols are advanced with RSI, Surgical cric, and plenty of medications to boot. We are having some trouble getting the medicines, but they are coming. I would send you a copy, but do want them to get out and really, it is not my place. As far as equipment, LP12's, EZIO's, and King LT's are just some of what we are using.
> 
> Hope that helps and take care,
> 
> Jay Paladino


FYI..there was mention of copy rights..On the protocols it does state that we can print one copy for personal use only..SO, with that said...If anyone had knowledge of making a book..i took the pdf files to Kinkos..They are arranged 2-up 8.5 x 11, So we can make a finish size 5.5 x 8.5 complete with spiral binding and clear vinyl cover front and color back cover..printed in black and white for $36 for both books...to have printed in color would have cost 4x as much.. hope that helps!


----------



## flt medic allen

*just a few more days*

hey guys, I just recieved the saudi visa after a peculiar process.  I was a little nervous about the whole thing until I begin to read thru the comments of you guys that are already paving the way for myself and others.  I cant wait to get in an actually start flying as well as making a few dollars and a ton of international experience.  See you guys in the next two weeks.


----------



## dtrojan07

flt medic allen said:


> hey guys, I just recieved the saudi visa after a peculiar process.  I was a little nervous about the whole thing until I begin to read thru the comments of you guys that are already paving the way for myself and others.  I cant wait to get in an actually start flying as well as making a few dollars and a ton of international experience.  See you guys in the next two weeks.


Allen did you get your E-Ticket yet? Make sure you check the baggage regs with the connecting flight to your Saudia flight...Did you get the paperwork I sent you?

D


----------



## flt medic allen

hey D, got the paperwork and I really appreciate that.  I asked to fly out on the 22nd so heres hoping.  The 18th will be here before you know it and you will be there.  See you in a few days


----------



## Danbo

*Arrived 4 Feb*

Guys, I arrived on 4 Feb.  i have nothing but nice things to say for the folks at SRCA and especially Travis and AJ my rootmies.  I am getting along in the process.  You must be patient, but the people here treat you well and it feels great to be a part of a team that is making a difference.  Looking forward to meeting and helping you guys in the future.  And by the way, I have an exentsive military background and it hasn't hurt me one bit.  Come see for yourself, don't believe the rumors.  The Saudis are a very helpful,friendly, accomodating people and we all want the same thing.  Optimal patient care.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Great news!



danbo said:


> guys, i arrived on 4 feb.  I have nothing but nice things to say for the folks at srca and especially travis and aj my rootmies.  I am getting along in the process.  You must be patient, but the people here treat you well and it feels great to be a part of a team that is making a difference.  Looking forward to meeting and helping you guys in the future.  And by the way, i have an exentsive military background and it hasn't hurt me one bit.  Come see for yourself, don't believe the rumors.  The saudis are a very helpful,friendly, accomodating people and we all want the same thing.  Optimal patient care.


----------



## bmc911

thats great to hear! i cant wait

thanks for the news man


----------



## helimedic39

*It's just about time*

Well it's just about time that I get to head over the pond. 12 hours from now I will be heading for frankfurt germany for a 5 hour layover, then to riyadh. Good luck to all of you to follow.


----------



## Tony Muir

Gidday fellas.

I'm from Tassie and am currently in Riyadh.

E mail me on a.c.muir@hotmail.com

Cheers.



ACP/AUS.JE81 said:


> I have been following your thread for some time now.  A friend and myself are both Advanced Care Paramedics in QLD Australia, we have both just recently started our application Process with SRCA.
> 
> Initially we applied to Action Aviation, but alas have no flight experience.  So was wondering if any one who may be already over there could help us out by answering a few of our questions.
> 
> We are looking to broaden our eperience, and possibly upskill in the process.  Does anyone know what clinical proceedures, the guys over there are able to perform, and what Pharmacology they are carrying if any.
> 
> We heard a whisper they are not carrying any medications.  Hopefully this is inaccurate.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

hey Tony glad to hear you made it over! As for all you other guys, I hope to join everyone soon once my visa stuff is complete.


----------



## dtrojan07

helimedic39 said:


> Well it's just about time that I get to head over the pond. 12 hours from now I will be heading for frankfurt germany for a 5 hour layover, then to riyadh. Good luck to all of you to follow.


Hey Helimedic...Goodluck and safe travels...Too bad we didn't get a chance to pound a few beers before you left..but I'll see you in a few days, in a bit warmer weather than we are leaving!!!


----------



## zyadfares

*Ems p*



Aerin-Sol said:


> Yeah, as a queer woman I would never work in Saudi Arabia.
> Do they even allow women in their ambulance services?



I have job for u in NWAFH - Tabuk we need famile paramedic there


----------



## zyadfares

*Ems p*



Sweety said:


> Hi y'all
> 
> I am in Riyadh, KSA. I am a Critical Care Nurse and have EMS experience EMT-P, currently working at one of the hospitals. I knew some of the expats working in the Red crescent in Riyadh last year. There are more than 3 expats working for them from South African, American, Australian and German. Do you know or have contact with any of the guys already there? Best to get in contact as they will have the best advice on what it is really like.



I knew same paramedic there from south african if u need cell phone number just tell me and i brught to u


----------



## j_commspec

*Cell phones and laptop air cards*

Hello everyone. I am supposed to head out in the next week. I am trying to finalize some things. Has anyone researched what is the best cell coverage or if any of the air cards for laptops work overthere. I am sure I am not the only one wondering about this so if anyone has done some research please share. Thanks very much.


----------



## flt medic allen

*In Riyadh on the 25th*

Well its finally here.  My e-ticket is set for departure from Arkansas on the
24th and in Riyadh on the 25th.  Cant wait to meet you guys and start the 
7-10 day process of actually signing the contract.  Im excited and nervous 
about the whole thing, but you gotta do what you gotta do.  See you in a bit


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Are you all flight medics and comms? Am I the only one going over ground pounding?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

zyadfares said:


> I have job for u in NWAFH - Tabuk we need famile paramedic there




Hello,

Who are you? Do you work for the SRCA?


----------



## j_commspec

I will be a Comm. Spec. for Action Aviation. I should be heading over sometime in the next week.


----------



## dtrojan07

*Saudi Info*

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8439161/Saudi-Arabian-Labour-Law

http://www.tcriyadbe.net/uploads/file/word/yabanciisciler_elkitabiing.doc

Here are a couple of link i thought may be helpful to everyone in their chase  to get across the Big pond to the big sand box!
The second link should ber very helpful and answer alot of questions...there is also a word .doc for that if you google it ..it is a auto download.....
Now as i sit here my bags are packed by the door..I'm waiting to fly away on a jet plane..Its too late to turn back now...
I want to take a second to thank everyone here especially Travis and Jay who have answered a  million and a half questions i had...I never found this forum til i already had my VISA I am sure if i did i would of already been deployed as I started my venture with the emails back last October and had my offer in before the middle of November thinking i was going to be in country by Christmas..boy was I wrong!
My plane leaves first thing in the morning for my 20plus hour flight from Detroit to Riyadh SA...For those who have gone before me. I look forward to meeting and learning from you and those who are yet to come..I look forward to meeting and help you on your journeys!
Important to note from, what I understand the Action peeps have a different VISA than the SRCA and that is the reason the SRCA is harder to get but the SRCA peeps don't have to leave the country every 60 days for 30 days either from what I have been told.
As i look out my front window to 12" of snow 26 degrees out and snowing blowing and drifting  out. I can't help but to think how nice it is going to be when i land to 86 degree plus weather and never have to check another car in the ditch cause they cant drive on snow covered roads!
Well everyone stay safe out their!

D


----------



## bmc911

LOL...ground pounding... 

no sir i am going over as a "ground pounder" a well


----------



## alelkins

*Visa processing time*

How long is it taking the SRCA folks to get their visa once all the paperwork has been submitted?  Just curious.  I will be sending mine overnight tomorrow.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

It took Travis a few days, and some other guys like Armor have been hung up for over a couple weeks now


----------



## Hoppymedic

whats up guys... hey if anyone is in contact with Jay ask him if he has beengetting my emails... I have not herd anything back from him... I know he is busy and I just wanted to make sure he is getting my emails... thanks and safe travels to those that are leaving


----------



## dtrojan07

*oops*

hi~


----------



## dtrojan07

alelkins said:


> How long is it taking the SRCA folks to get their visa once all the paperwork has been submitted?  Just curious.  I will be sending mine overnight tomorrow.


If you are going through SRCA it will take at least 3 weeks if they have everything exactly as they have requested from you..if not you can ad another few weeks..I Sent mine in. in December..I am leaving today..in fact i am sitting at Dulless looking at my Saudi 747 getting ready to board as we speak!
 ALSO FYI EVERYONE if you go through DC they will tell you Terminal B and you will walk a real long way to get there...They changed terminals and are at A15 and preCheck at A19...AND there isn't anymore snow here than we had in Michigan! FYI Jeff!!!


----------



## WTEngel

*Visa*

My visa took 10 days total, 7 business days. 

Also, make sure you get your originals back when they send the paperwork back to you.


----------



## alelkins

*Visa Paperwork*

FYI- It's not clear on the paperwork checklist but if your family is coming with you they need visa applications for each person and passports mailed in the packet to the visa handler.  

Travis, haven't heard lately, how's it going for you in Riyadh?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Yeah Travis hows it going over there and have you started working?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

also if you started working can you give us more details on the meds and equipment are currently available on both the ground ops and the air ops?
I herd we have somethings but not other things.


----------



## dtrojan07

*Made IT!!!!*

Made it finally!!! On the ground no problems at all!!! Awsome flight!!! It is warm here and a busy place!!!


----------



## Armor10

Hey great news guys. I got a call from the Visa handler in DC today. The consulate finally approved all my paper work for my degree (I sent my paper work in on Jan 25th) I should have my passport and my paperwork back within the next three days. It was quite a process, but I’m finally done. I’m going over as a ground medic. With an option to fly after they meet me, and verify my degree etc. The company I worked for required you have at least three years of Lead Paramedic experience before you can even start applying for a flight position. Then most people don’t even get hired until their fourth year.  I’m starting to get excited, and can’t wait to get my travel dates.  I want to know from people how much cash there taking over with them? I’m only going to be able to bring like $600. American and it seems like it takes awhile to start getting paid.  How much cash are you guys going through?  How much are you spending on food etc. My buddy Schulz should be right behind me.Well take care guys, I’ll post when I get my travel dates.


----------



## flightwatch67

*Take Care*

Take care, keep all of us who are waiting informed, I was planning on taking around the same amount as you, so I hope that is enough, I know I was told to get some if not most converted to Saudi Riyals. I know there are quite a few of us still waiting on our Visas.


----------



## Hoppymedic

good deal armmor... I am still waiting to hear from my phone interview... but I have all my paper work together and sitting on go just waiting to get that ball rolling I know they have been pushed a little so i am waiting and hoping that i hear something soon... later and take care hopfully see ya soon


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hoppymedic said:


> good deal armmor... I am still waiting to hear from my phone interview... but I have all my paper work together and sitting on go just waiting to get that ball rolling I know they have been pushed a little so i am waiting and hoping that i hear something soon... later and take care hopfully see ya soon



Have you got your fedex stuff yet?


----------



## dtrojan07

*Saudi Life?*

I couldn't help posting this...How many times are you driving down the road and truly see something unique and actually have a camera in your hands to capture it? Well, we didn't actually capture it but did take the photo!!  http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4035629&l=07ced78c52&id=519227720


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Nice looking camel in the back of that truck! How are things going for you over there?


----------



## dtrojan07

schulz said:


> Nice looking camel in the back of that truck! How are things going for you over there?


AWSOME..Get to travel the world meet people from all over the world and get paid for it..."Living the dream" The people at SRCA are just fantastic they really are. All the medics here are just fantastic group....


----------



## rhousewa

*Travel Time?*

Well I got my Visa today and have sent the scanned copy to SRCA...  I hope it's almost over or maybe about to start depending on how you look at things.  Jeff


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I should be right behind you Jeff I am just waiting on my fedex package I have everything ready for it when it gets here with the exception of the physical. I am hoping the visa handler will have everything by next week. 

How long did it take you to get your visa from the time you turned in your stuff?


----------



## rhousewa

*Visa*

I made a career out of this...  I submitted my application during the Christmas/New Years holiday and then got hit with the snow a few weeks ago.  All in all Gaby received my application on 12/28 and I was approved 2/19.  I hope I am not the norm...  Jeff


----------



## S_Steingrobe

Hey everybody, just new here in this Forum.
I was interviewed for a EMS Manager Position as well as Chief of Critical Care Transport Service for the SRCA. Last Week after all the paperwork was done, they told me they have a new head in the SRCA Authority and all the upcomings as well as the project has been shut down. How long is not expectable.
Can u tell me more about?

Best wishes, 

Sasha


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*news to me*

That is news to me. 
Guess I should be looking for  new job if thats true!?


----------



## alelkins

*News to me too.*



S_Steingrobe said:


> Hey everybody, just new here in this Forum.
> I was interviewed for a EMS Manager Position as well as Chief of Critical Care Transport Service for the SRCA. Last Week after all the paperwork was done, they told me they have a new head in the SRCA Authority and all the upcomings as well as the project has been shut down. How long is not expectable.
> Can u tell me more about?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Sasha



Would be nice to know what this means for those of use who already in the process of heading to Riyadh.  Any info would be appreciated.  I'm gonna try and touch base with some of the guys that are already over there and see what their take is on this issue.


----------



## akflightmedic

Welcome to overseas contracting....


----------



## NJmedic3250

I really hope this is a mistake or some sort of lost in translation issue... Someone calm me down and tell me that information is wrong


----------



## Hoppymedic

now dont that just toss a monkey wrench into things.... lol well i guess we will see where this goes....


----------



## Hoppymedic

NJ I cant tell you that the info is inaccurate, because i have not herd anything yet... I do have feelers out though, just like everyone else i am sure.. I am like you though, I have just been bounce from the AA process to SRCA process but i intend on hnaging in and going through it... so i guess we will all see what happens... if and when i hear anything i will let you know


----------



## Armor10

Wow that would be news to me. I just got an e-mail back from them yesterday saying:
 "Congratulations on having your Visa approved. Please provide us with your location and nearest airport to your city in order to make travel arrangements and get you the airline tickets. We would like to ask you to send us a copy of the visa via email when you receive it. Kindly note that our weekends in KSA are on Thursdays and Fridays, so I may not get back to you till Saturday."

Looking forward to seeing you 

Assma AL-Tuwaijri 


Saudi Red Crescent Authority
Human Resource / Recruitment


----------



## helimedic39

Hey NJ, quit whining like a little girl! I'm sure if you fist pump, everything will work out just fine. Not sure where that guy got his info about the operation currently being shut down, but I can say for us currently here, things are still running.


----------



## helimedic39

Hey NJ, i'm sure if you go visit room 303, you'll find someone waiting for you with their whitey titeys on backwards. That'll calm you down. HAHAHA


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

You shouldn't be wasting poetry like that on a post, You should be blogging about it!! Wasted talent I'd say.


----------



## helimedic39

if you'd like to be in my memoirs....all you gotta do is ask!


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

And if you wanted me to stop by your room in 303, all you had to do is askh34r:


----------



## helimedic39

HEY! this isn't about me! it's about RANDY...lol....nice one though


----------



## Jon

helimedic39 said:


> Hey NJ, quit whining like a little girl! I'm sure if you fist pump, everything will work out just fine. Not sure where that guy got his info about the operation currently being shut down, but I can say for us currently here, things are still running.


Point of fact - the folks on Jersey Shore, for the most part, were New York imports - I don't see too much fist pumping from Jersey residents.

Jersey just smells funny.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

ok  all you crazy east coast guys! 

In terms of things shutting down here is what I have herd. My fed ex package with the stuff for my visa handler is on its way as far as I know. I herd from one of the AA applicants they are no longer taking on flight medics right now, but as far as I know SRCA ground OPS are still recruiting as far as I know. 

Please keep in mind some of that is 3rd party info


----------



## NJmedic3250

helimedic39 said:


> Hey NJ, quit whining like a little girl! I'm sure if you fist pump, everything will work out just fine. Not sure where that guy got his info about the operation currently being shut down, but I can say for us currently here, things are still running.




HAHA. I can tell Im gonna get along with you guys. And thanks for the clearification. But despite what you may think, all the fist pumping in the world wouldnt cheer me up if that was true.


----------



## S_Steingrobe

Sorry guys for the late reply. I think its not a translation problem <_< , so we had a group of 25 Paramedics and Flight Paramedics. This group plus myself had done all their interviews and get a confirmation as well as you got for the final stage. As well we had all the visa process completed and have been waiting just for the fly in. Now we got told, that there have been a change in the head of the SRCA Authority and a Prince from the King would have taken over controll. Now he shot down all the processes for the moment and from our goverment contacts nobody nows at the moment, in which time period this will go further. So its not an information i got while sitting on the toilet ^^ as i get it from my govermental contacts.
We will see. I would be happy if it will go on, so i dont have to move to beirut for an other project, and i am happy for you that you get this chance over there.
So please tell me, if you got some news from your site of the ocean^^.

Take Care.

Sasha


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Spoke with Jay from Action today and he said that Action is no longer recruiting flight medics because they are fully staffed now. He said he will ask Dr. Nakity about ground ops with the SRCA and is unsure what there demands are currently. He did say that the SRCA just got a new CEO, like the German medic stated. If Jay does not get back to me soon I think someone who is cool with Dr. Nakity on the phone should call and see whats going on. Would suck to quit our jobs after the work visa and then not have a job waiting for us, or just be able to plan this out properly.


----------



## S_Steingrobe

Hey,

have spoken with Jay like you and will be waiting for some new Information from him. He will contact me/you  later and tell us whats going on probably.
Whatever, its the arabic way of life. ^^

Crossing fingers....

Take Care.

Sasha


----------



## Hoppymedic

Just to make the same point again.. I was in the process with AA (Jay) and when he got back in country he mailed me and told me that they were not hiring flight medics any more for me to go through SRCA so when i mailed my stuff into them they got back with me right away.. and abotu a week later is when all this info started coming in... so knowing where i stand would be a great thing.. take care guys gl


----------



## medic75

*Newcomer*

HI everybody,
I applied yesterday to srca online & got the file number.
Can anybody tell me when I should expect communication of any sort from them.

Thanks & Regards


----------



## S_Steingrobe

Hey,
have done same way.
I got one day after the apply the file number and one day after this, the information about the paperwork they need.
So i sent them all my papers....(if its more than 4 MB put it into different mails, so I have done. The mail came back because it was 14MB big, so their server will not accept it).
...and one day later i got the confirmation that they got all my stuff.

Now I am waiting....we will see.
Havent got any reply from Jay back yet, so I am waiting in this case although....

Take Care,

Sasha


----------



## medic75

Dear Sasha,

Thanks for your reply, I got the file number yesterday, waiting for next,
Hoping for the good, All the best to you,

Regards


----------



## strattamatter

medic75 said:


> HI everybody,
> I applied yesterday to srca online & got the file number.
> Can anybody tell me when I should expect communication of any sort from them.
> 
> Thanks & Regards



Medic75-
   If you don't hear from them in a day or two, resend your application.  I waited over a month after I got my file number.  After not hearing anything, and several emails later I decided to resend my application.  I heard back the next day.  Since then, communication has been swift I've never waited more than 24 hours for a reply.  Good luck.


----------



## WTEngel

*The quote above...*

The quote from above is actually a question I quoted from another poster, who claimed that the SRCA made changes to people's contracts on arrival. The poster also claimed to work for a company in Saudi already.

Anyway, I can definitively say that if you bring all of the proper documentation with you and all of your claims of experience are true and can be proven, your contract will be identical to what was outlined in your official job offer. I have only seen them change one contract since I have been here, and that was in order to give the employee MORE money, so it was in the employee's favor.

SRCA is a good company to work for and they have done me right so far. I would encourage anyone who has the opportunity to come over with SRCA to take advantage of it. 

TE


----------



## NWParamedic

*Salary Range*

WT,

This salary range came to me after I asked what the salary range was. This was subsequent to my online application. I have not received a job offer as I am just starting the process of securing all the required info. The past employer thing is going to be my biggest hurdle as I have at least 10 employers over the last 20 years to contact. I was very pleased that they offered to divulge their salary range. Frankly I was not prepared to put in the months of paperwork before I knew what the salary range was. If they accept my 20 years of experience I should receive there top step wage. Hey one question. I have three kids and a wife, what are the accomodations going to be like for them?


----------



## Armor10

Hey NW, good to see another Oregon Medic on here. I just completed all the paperwork. My Visa was approved and I should hopefully have it in my position by next Wed or Thursday. It took sometime for my Visa to process because of the degree were required to have here in Oregon (And the crazy snow storm in DC). The consulate was having problems because the other Medics they processed only had certificates. So I got it eventually worked out. So hopefully it should be easier for you. I also have a wife and three children, my wife and I have been doing extensive research on life over there for family's. What we have found is that it's very positive, life on the compounds are really nice. They have children's and lady's groups for your wife. The US embassy has functions, and the Saudi American School there is top notch, your kids will get a much better education there then in the states(You know how bad Oregon public schools are). Here's the web site:  http://www.aisr.org   Unfortunly because of the housing thing right now in Southern Oregon my wife and kids are going to stay here for the first year and try and sell our house. I'm really thinking of making this a career and after the first year my wife and family will hopefully follow me over. Travis is right everyone I have dealt with at the SRCA and the Visa handlers have been really great and helpful. I can't wait to get my travel dates and get over there. If you have any problems or questions about the process just PM me. I'll actually be in Eugene this Saturday, and a couple of my buddies from Medic school work for Eugene fire.


----------



## NWParamedic

Nice Armor10. I have been in Eugene for about 8 months now. I am unfortunately working for a company called Med-Trans. They are strictly inter-facility, very frustrating for me. My wife insisted on moving over from Newport, Oregon where I worked a PacWest Ambulance. We should hook up when you come into town so we can discuss this Saudi thing face to face. I don't really know any of the Eugene Guys. I see them all the time of course at Riverbend Hospital, just never have hooked up with them. How can we communicate better?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

NWParamedic said:


> Nice Armor10. I have been in Eugene for about 8 months now. I am unfortunately working for a company called Med-Trans. They are strictly inter-facility, very frustrating for me. My wife insisted on moving over from Newport, Oregon where I worked a PacWest Ambulance. We should hook up when you come into town so we can discuss this Saudi thing face to face. I don't really know any of the Eugene Guys. I see them all the time of course at Riverbend Hospital, just never have hooked up with them. How can we communicate better?



PacWest aka the step child of Metro West right? Did my internship with MW. I am also on board going through the visa thing right now. I am just going over as a worker bee for ALS intercept ground pounding!


----------



## NWParamedic

schulz said:


> PacWest aka the step child of Metro West right? Did my internship with MW. I am also on board going through the visa thing right now. I am just going over as a worker bee for ALS intercept ground pounding!


That's right MW/PWA. I snapped out of it before I became a JD robot. How long have you been gathering all your info. I am just getting started and have not received an offer yet. The offer will determine if I go. I have three kids and I would need their top step wage if I am going to go over. I have flight and managment experience so I am not sure what i would do over there. I figure I can discuss this in the interview. Any advice you can give or info you have learned regarding all this would be great. The important questions that need to be answered to my satisfaction are:  What are the condmpound accomodations going to be like for my family, my job function/position, safety of course, and the pay. It looks like they financially cover quite a bit, but it looks like I will have expenses for the kids school as they only cover so much. So if I can figure all this out satisfactorily, then I think we are going to proceed over.

Anyone care to comment on these questions?


----------



## NWParamedic

*Passport Information Page*

Can anyone tell me what the passport information page is. My first communication back from the Saudi Red Crescent Authority has a list of items I need to get together and one is listed like this: 

2. Copy of your passport information page

I don't have a passport, so could anyone enlighten me?


----------



## alelkins

*Passport*

You getting a passport needs to be priority, you can't complete the process without it.


----------



## akflightmedic

NWParamedic said:


> Can anyone tell me what the passport information page is. My first communication back from the Saudi Red Crescent Authority has a list of items I need to get together and one is listed like this:
> 
> 2. Copy of your passport information page
> 
> I don't have a passport, so could anyone enlighten me?



Once you have a passport which is most essential for any job outside the USA, it will become glaringly obvious which page is the passport information page.


----------



## NWParamedic

*SRCA Compound Accomodations*

I have been researching compound life in general and have found the recent posts on this subject state that the better compounds with ammennities are becoming more difficult to get into and have waiting lists. It seems that there has been an increase in westerners being hired for jobs. Can anyone comment on what the SRCA is providing for EMS personnel? Could you provide specifics like where the compounds are located, what ammenities do they have and what are the accommadations like? Photos would be nice.

Thank you.


----------



## alelkins

*Compound*

The people that are coming in now are being housed at a temp. compound.  I have no idea for how long or anything.  You can't find this particular compound on the internet. Sorry I couldn't be more help but this is pretty much all anyone knows.


----------



## NWParamedic

alelkins said:


> The people that are coming in now are being housed at a temp. compound.  I have no idea for how long or anything.  You can't find this particular compound on the internet. Sorry I couldn't be more help but this is pretty much all anyone knows.


Thx alelkins I see you have a child as well. I'm just a little concerned about what the accomodations are going to be like for the family. I personally would be happy with a one room abode, but my wife and kids would not last long if they are'nt comfortable.

Anyone else on the ground over there able to find out what the status of future compound accomodations will be?


----------



## Armor10

Hey NW, check out Travis's Flicker account as well as his Blog (http://travisinsaudi.blogspot.com/) He has a lot of pictures what it's like over there. Here's the Address: (http://www.flickr.com/photos/travisinsaudi/) 
Remember if you have any questions about the process or need some help let me know. My wife even said she would be willing to talk to yours about what she has found out about life for women over there, and compound living. There's also a Blog by a Canadian women in Riyadh thats really funny but informative. (http://canadianinriyadh.blogspot.com/) Your wife will like it and it will answer some of her questions. My wife loves it and checks it every day for updates. -Cheers


----------



## NJmedic3250

Hey guys. Quick question. Im still waiting on my visa and all my documents to be sent back to me. After I receive all of that, what's the next step? Is it just a matter of booking a flight? Also, is there a timeframe in which you have to book your flight or do they let you pick the date?


----------



## NWParamedic

Danbo said:


> Hey Guys, I'm leaving in about 8 hours.  I went throuugh SRCA and it took me since June, so hang in there.  Even as long as it took, it's hard to believe that it has finally come around.  Oh, and with the degree thing, they already had my college degree, and I still had to get my High School transcripts after that.  It's just the way it is.  See you guys over there and feel free to ask me questions or share information as soon as I get internet access.  Hope this works out for all of us.


Ok do we need both the HS Diploma and HS transcripts? And Regarding College Transcripts, Can they be copies or do they I need them sent to me in sealed envelopes?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

For the stuff that your emailing for your preliminary offer, scanned copies will be fine. For the stuff your mailing in for the work Visa, college transcripts will need to be official sealed. They do not require high school transcripts just your diploma with the raised seal.
If you have a degree some guys are having to get that verified from 3rd party service for the visa guy.


----------



## NWParamedic

schulz said:


> For the stuff that your emailing for your preliminary offer, scanned copies will be fine. For the stuff your mailing in for the work Visa, college transcripts will need to be official sealed. They do not require high school transcripts just your diploma with the raised seal.
> If you have a degree some guys are having to get that verified from 3rd party service for the visa guy.


Awesome. That helps out a lot.


----------



## alelkins

*Compound living*



NWParamedic said:


> Thx alelkins I see you have a child as well. I'm just a little concerned about what the accomodations are going to be like for the family. I personally would be happy with a one room abode, but my wife and kids would not last long if they are'nt comfortable.
> 
> Anyone else on the ground over there able to find out what the status of future compound accomodations will be?


I understand your concern about the living conditions.  Our only concern with housing is security.  Our thoughts are that as long as we are together we can make anywhere home, and we can make anything clean and liveable.  

Christy Elkins


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Thought I would update everyone. So I have completed my physical,lab work, xrays, background check, notarized employer letters, notarized color copies of all certs and licences a long with all originals , new passport, have all official college sealed transcripts from all 4 colleges, have my official high school diploma copy, 3 letters of reference and whatever else I am forgetting to mention.

I had some communication problems a couple weeks back. I thought I was getting my visa paper work... but the SRCA requested a few more things I had to order and track down (like my high school diploma) I was told they are approving my authorization letter and mailing me my visa paper work "ASAP" When that arrives I have everything completed and waiting, Ill put into a 2nd day air envelope and will send it to the Visa handler in D/C. So unless some more unforeseen problems arise, I should be catching up with everyone. I am starting a blog also and will post that information when I get my plane tickets


----------



## ameriki

Don't worry about security over here.  We have been here for 2 years and have had no issues at all related to our safety.  You will need to worry about crazy drivers more than terrorists.  As far as accomodations.....they are still working on that but don't worry.  They will put families in proper accomodations as soon as possible.  You may be in a hotel for a few weeks (we were.....2 bedroom / 2 bath / living room / kitchen...more like a small apartment) but you will be taken care of.


----------



## NWParamedic

schulz said:


> Thought I would update everyone. So I have completed my physical,lab work, xrays, background check, notarized employer letters, notarized color copies of all certs and licences a long with all originals , new passport, have all official college sealed transcripts from all 4 colleges, have my official high school diploma copy, 3 letters of reference and whatever else I am forgetting to mention.
> 
> I had some communication problems a couple weeks back. I thought I was getting my visa paper work... but the SRCA requested a few more things I had to order and track down (like my high school diploma) I was told they are approving my authorization letter and mailing me my visa paper work "ASAP" When that arrives I have everything completed and waiting, Ill put into a 2nd day air envelope and will send it to the Visa handler in D/C. So unless some more unforeseen problems arise, I should be catching up with everyone. I am starting a blog also and will post that information when I get my plane tickets


That's Awesome. I was just thinking today that I would write a similar email outlining all of the preliminary items needed that you just mentioned. I am about half way there to getting all these items. I am not experiencing many complications save one or two employers not willing to take the time to get my employment verification letter notarized. I am not sure how I am going to remedy this issue. 

I am likely going to take the verification letter and take it and get it notarized by me. I hope that will satisfy the requirement. Can anyone advise on this?


----------



## NWParamedic

ameriki said:


> Don't worry about security over here.  We have been here for 2 years and have had no issues at all related to our safety.  You will need to worry about crazy drivers more than terrorists.  As far as accomodations.....they are still working on that but don't worry.  They will put families in proper accomodations as soon as possible.  You may be in a hotel for a few weeks (we were.....2 bedroom / 2 bath / living room / kitchen...more like a small apartment) but you will be taken care of.


Thanks for the accomodations info. And I did get a recent reply from SRCA HR indicating that they are currently housing expats in a temp 12-2 bedroom unit compound with them currently looking to get a bigger compound.


----------



## Hoppymedic

I have an issue with my diploma.... I dont have it... I have all the transcripts but my diploma was distroyed and the school board said that they do not have any copies... any help would be great... but they have everything other than that and I am not sure if that is why I have not herd back from them, the last commo I had was that they recieved my info and would be looking it over


----------



## NWParamedic

Hoppymedic said:


> I have an issue with my diploma.... I dont have it... I have all the transcripts but my diploma was distroyed and the school board said that they do not have any copies... any help would be great... but they have everything other than that and I am not sure if that is why I have not herd back from them, the last commo I had was that they recieved my info and would be looking it over


Here is what I can tell you. For my inital round of paperwork to even get a job offer they specifically requested a copy of my diploma. I have clarified the need for the diploma and not transcripts with others on this site. I believe, other correct me on this, it has to do with getting your work visa. Without going back and searching the posts on this thread, I believe I remember someone stating this. In your particular situation, I would just email them about this particular situation and give them an opportunity to work out a solution. They have been pretty good about getting back to me with questions. Sometimes it does take 4-5 days before they reply. Look at your college transcripts, I know on one of mine it indicated my HS on it and showed my HS as a qualifier to get accepted to that college. Another thing would be to look into who previously did the actual work of duplicating the diploma. When I contacted my HS they sent me to a secondary company that does all of their past and current diplomas. Maybe they still exist. Just contact what ever HS is standing in your home town and ask them. Maybe someone on this thread could provide any additional info to help out HoppyMedic.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

My high school diploma was also destroyed or lost. I just ordered a copy from the Oregon state board of education. I got mine in 1999 and they sent me a brand new one last month with a gold raised seal on it just like the original for 5 bucks. Contact these guys http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/ and if that does not work contact your old high school directly. Someone somewhere has to have a record of you graduating high school and someone somewhere has to be able to provide proof of that, hopefully in the form a new diploma


----------



## NJmedic3250

Not sure what everyone else that is waiting for their visa has heard, but I spoke with Gaby today and she said that the consulate is only processing 2 visas a week. That is the holdup... Just thought I'd throw that in there.


----------



## alelkins

*Visa paperwork*

When sending your paperwork to the visa handler be sure to send a copy of your National Registry Certificate (the one with the gold seal) in addition to a copy of your licensure.  

We did speak with someone at Visa Obtainers yesterday.  They told us that our Visas should be approved by next Wednesday, so we are hoping to get them back to us maybe by Friday.

Al & Christy


----------



## ExpatMedic0

njmedic3250 said:


> not sure what everyone else that is waiting for their visa has heard, but i spoke with gaby today and she said that the consulate is only processing 2 visas a week. That is the holdup... Just thought i'd throw that in there.



lame!


----------



## NJmedic3250

schulz said:


> lame!



Thats what I said. The SRCA also go on the consulate's case about this and told them to pick up the pace. I guess they aren't having it...


----------



## ameriki

*Missing diplomas*

It seems that lots of you will have problems locating your diplomas.  If this is a problem for you....get an official letter (is there any other kind) from the school board / educational institution that states that you passed all requirements for graduation, when you graduated, etc.....  Have this authenticated, notarized, and everything else along with the rest of your papers.  A cover letter from you explaining that you are substituting the letter for the diploma is also a VERY good idea.  If anyone has any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## WTEngel

Ameriki, do you miss us as much as we miss you? I can't believe I am seeing you here...you are on vacation for crying out loud!

Hope all is well, can't wait for you guys to get back...see you next week!

TE


----------



## Sweety

NJmedic3250 said:


> Not sure what everyone else that is waiting for their visa has heard, but I spoke with Gaby today and she said that the consulate is only processing 2 visas a week. That is the holdup... Just thought I'd throw that in there.



They must operate Saudi work rules:unsure: in the consulate. Get used to it guys. see ya time to hit the pool as summer is already here


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Travis or Amer

What meds are currently available on the ground units? Are you currently using 12 leads?


----------



## NJmedic3250

Sweety said:


> They must operate Saudi work rules:unsure: in the consulate. Get used to it guys. see ya time to hit the pool as summer is already here



Haha they do without a doubt. I will have no issue with the layed back approach when I get there. But until I can also say what you just said in your last sentance, I'm going to try and push along my visa as fast as I can.


----------



## ameriki

Hey Travis....yes we miss you guys!  I am actually looking forward to getting back "home".  We are wrapping things up getting ready to drive up to DC on Sunday.  We still have to go to the Saudi Consulate to get Tipper's papers approved...I swear it is easier to get a person into Saudi than a dog.  If any of you guys want us to bring something back for you....you are running out of time...let me know ASAP.

Stay safe and we will see ya Thursday.


----------



## WTEngel

You guys drive safe...those roads from Florida to D.C. can be pretty dicey...

It would be rather ironic to survive the traffic here in Riyadh only to meet your maker while driving on some empty stretch of highway in America...

Can't wait to meet Tipper!


----------



## j_commspec

*Ksa*

I have been here for 1 week. I am working everyday and start my role as a supervisor next week. I am a HEMS Dispatcher and have been hired by Action Aviation. If any of you are already in country please conyacy me. We all usr Skype. My Skype name is coffeyhouse21. Please make contact if you want. I hope everyone is having as much fun as we are.  By the way.  KSA stands for The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  B-safe


----------



## NJmedic3250

another week tagged onto the visa wait... my police letter did not have a stamp  from the police department on it... go figure... anyone else make any headway with their visa?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Armor has been waiting on his for over a month and I have been waiting for my Visa paper work to arrive for over 3 weeks so I can even apply for it.


----------



## NWParamedic

Hey Guys,

In an attempt to gain from your guys' knowledge here, I wanted to ask a few questions to see if I can get ahead of the paperwork game.

Right now I have submitted everything for a job offer accept my HS Diploma and Passport page. These items are about 2 weeks out at this time. SRCA HR has been great and very responsive and they have indicated that a job offer will have to wait until I get these last two items emailed. So...

1. Can anyone tell me about the job offer and interview? Just wanting to get an idea at what point in the process this occurs and what to expect the interview will be like?

2. During the time I am waiting for my HS Diploma and Passport to come in, assuming I am offered a job can anyone advise what I can be processing for the next phase of the paperwork process, which sounds like is the work visa?


----------



## NWParamedic

alelkins said:


> When sending your paperwork to the visa handler be sure to send a copy of your National Registry Certificate (the one with the gold seal) in addition to a copy of your licensure.
> 
> We did speak with someone at Visa Obtainers yesterday.  They told us that our Visas should be approved by next Wednesday, so we are hoping to get them back to us maybe by Friday.
> 
> Al & Christy


I just posted a similar request and just saw this one. In an attempt to prepare for the work visa paperwork, Could you post a listing of items needed for the work visa so I could begin gathering these items?

Thanks.


----------



## NJmedic3250

NWParamedic said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> In an attempt to gain from your guys' knowledge here, I wanted to ask a few questions to see if I can get ahead of the paperwork game.
> 
> Right now I have submitted everything for a job offer accept my HS Diploma and Passport page. These items are about 2 weeks out at this time. SRCA HR has been great and very responsive and they have indicated that a job offer will have to wait until I get these last two items emailed. So...
> 
> 1. Can anyone tell me about the job offer and interview? Just wanting to get an idea at what point in the process this occurs and what to expect the interview will be like?
> 
> 2. During the time I am waiting for my HS Diploma and Passport to come in, assuming I am offered a job can anyone advise what I can be processing for the next phase of the paperwork process, which sounds like is the work visa?



The job offer consists of a preliminary offer emailed to you (salaries and allowances are in Saudi Riyals). Once you accept the preliminary offer, they send you a packet including the official offer and additional paperwork (health form, layout of documents the consulate needs in order to process your visa, etc.). Once you gather all the necessary documents you then mail them to the visa handler in DC, who then sends it to the consulate. Your visa is then processed and returned to you. Sounds like a quick process right? haha


----------



## NWParamedic

NJmedic3250 said:


> The job offer consists of a preliminary offer emailed to you (salaries and allowances are in Saudi Riyals). Once you accept the preliminary offer, they send you a packet including the official offer and additional paperwork (health form, layout of documents the consulate needs in order to process your visa, etc.). Once you gather all the necessary documents you then mail them to the visa handler in DC, who then sends it to the consulate. Your visa is then processed and returned to you. Sounds like a quick process right? haha


I have no illusions, by reading all of the post here on this blog, that the visa will be a quick process. That is why i am seeking more information regarding what I can do now before I get the packet to prepare? Any suggestions?


----------



## NJmedic3250

Also most of the documents needed for the visa are ones you have already emailed scanned copies of to the SRCA...


----------



## NWParamedic

NJmedic3250 said:


> Also most of the documents needed for the visa are ones you have already emailed scanned copies of to the SRCA...


Ok. I am aware of the law enforcement clearance which I am preparing now. So is that it?


----------



## bmc911

little update on my status and maybe an FYI for some

talked with Gaby this morning who is basically the middle person between me and the SRCA and the visa processors. Its been awile that ive been waiting for my visa approval so I contacted her to see what was going on. the police report i sent in wasnt official enough, which is understandable. in CT we just get them from the local PD and its a usually a copy of my actual rap sheet, now hopefully most of you dont even have this but for me i havent exactly been in EMS all my life if you know what i mean. the police report needs to be certified and or notrarized from either state, sheriff, county, etc. has to have a seal and or raised stamp certifying it. also what i found is in CT you can also request what is called a "letter of good standing" which is a certified letter for those that dont have a rap sheet. 
so tonight while im workin i have to go and get a fingerprint card from the PD and send that in with some money to the state, wait 1-2 weeks for my "official" rap sheet and send that to D.C.
she said i will be good to go after they get that

now for anyone starting or in the middle of this process i have some words of wisdom. now im from the northeast US, fast paced, impatient, everything done here is conducted as a high speed buissness mentality. slow down, in general Muslims and Arabs dont conduct buissness in this manner. its actually kinda nice. if you find yourself wondering whats going on, contact someone and just ask, email has worked well for me with everyone so far. if you dont hear back, conatct them again. many times i contact someone, wondering or inquiring and end up finding out there is something else needed. the process thus far has really taught me to be patient, things will eventually happen, quicker for some, longer for others. 

HAPPY ST PATRICKS DAY!!!!!!!!!:beerchug: CHEERS!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Get a notarized background check with your fingers print cards from the Oregon state police, this is going to take a couple weeks. After your preliminary offer ask HR to send you the medical form by email so you can complete it before your visa paper work arrives to save time, if you do not have a passport and need one ASAP buy a 28$ greyhound ticket 1 way to Vancouver BC then make an appointment to the regional passport center in seattle. Get your passport photos taken to bring with you, bring your bus tickets to the passport appointment showing international travel in less than 2 weeks and they give you a passport same day for $170ish or instead of the Canada routine you can ask the SRCA for a letter stating you need one right away for your visa and your accepted to arrive immediately. get color copys of all your documents including employer letters and notarize everything, if your in doubt notarize it.

Here is my time line for an example of how long things take:

I started communication in November with the SRCA, I Applied first week of December got my preliminary offer 3 weeks ago, accepted that and now am waiting for my visa paper work to arrive so I can send off for that. I already know whats in the packet so I completed my medical form, background check, notary, and official documents already. My passport and HS diploma slowed me down some, prob by a couple weeks to sort that all out.

Armor applied less than a week before me, he got a call today saying his visa is approved...

In closing you need the below, start on everything now to save time.

1. Notarized letters from all employers you want to use as experience.

2. Three professional letters of reference

3. Official sealed college transcripts from all colleges

4. Official sealed Paramedic program transcripts if not from a college I.E. fire dept, hospital, vocational training.

5. Notarized color copys of, ACLS, PALS, PHTLS, ect... and your National and State Paramedic certification with the raised seals, high school diploma, and any other official documents that pertain.

6. The originals of your Diploma, Paramedic Cert, Passport, all your certs, and College degree if you have one. ( I would get your birth certificate and SSN card just in case also)

7. If you do have a college degree you need to get it verified by a 3rd party online, you can ask the visa handler for more info.

8. Medical form completed in triple all signed by hand by the doctor and completed to include chest xrays with disc, fecal labs, urine labs, blood labs, physical exam, and 3 passport photos of you

9. Completed SRCA application and experience form in your own hand writing 

10. 10 passport photos of you

11. 2 finger prints cards sent in to your local law enforcement agency (OSP for us) that are returned with a clean background check attached that is notarized by the police.

FINAL STEPS: 12. Receive your Final contract with Visa paper work in the mail. Complete this with everything above and send it to the visa handler in DC.

13. Get your work visa in the mail call Gabby and get your plane tickets.



I think thats everything, feel free to chime in anyone if I missed something.

I have completed everything and am on step 12 about to move to step 13 hopefully.


----------



## bmc911

looks we will be probally gettin over there about the same time 

im psyched man, cant wait


----------



## NWParamedic

Schultz,

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you for taking the time to produce a comprehensive list of items needed for the visa process.


----------



## NWParamedic

Schultz,

Why two fingerprint cards? I downloaded the OSP request for criminal history report and it indicates one fingerprint card and that it will be returned with the report.


----------



## Hoppymedic

Hey guys just to let you know I got this today in my inbox
Dear Sir, 

Thank you for your email. At the moment all the recruitment processes are on hold due to some internal reasons. As soon as we begin recruiting again I will inform you.


Regards, 

Assma AL-Tuwaijri 
Human Resources / Recruiting
Saudi Red Crescent Authority


I guess they r still having an issue with their turn over....


----------



## Hoppymedic

I guess this will give me time to ensure that I have everything that I need to get this up and running... was set up with AA and had that going through but when that got squished I had to change gears and along with dealing with everything here... So I will wait and see what happens... and thanks again for all the info... and good luck to you guys. I will keep posting what happens


----------



## NWParamedic

Hoppymedic said:


> Hey guys just to let you know I got this today in my inbox
> Dear Sir,
> 
> Thank you for your email. At the moment all the recruitment processes are on hold due to some internal reasons. As soon as we begin recruiting again I will inform you.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Assma AL-Tuwaijri
> Human Resources / Recruiting
> Saudi Red Crescent Authority
> 
> 
> I guess they r still having an issue with their turn over....


Hoppymedic. What is the issue with the turnover you mentioned?

I sent SRCA HR this message yesterday which was Tuesday 3/16/10:

I believe I am now just waiting for one last employment letter, my HS Diploma and Passport to come in the mail. I estimate to have these items to you in about 2 weeks time.
And I got this message reply on the same day:

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email. We will be waiting. 
Regards,

Wadha Al Sowayan
Human Resources
International Recruitment
Saudi Red Crescent Authority

So I wonder what is going on?


----------



## Hoppymedic

hmmm i have no idea.... would be interesting to know though...


----------



## NWParamedic

You eluded to a turnover issue... what can you tell us about that?


----------



## Hoppymedic

I had heard that they were in the process of changing management or something of that nature, and it was stated that due to "internal reasons" they were putting a hold on their recruiting at this time... i dont know any more than that and the "turn over" is simply speculation on my part.  I am sending them another email and asking for clarafication on this matter... 
Also the person that you got your email from is different from the person i got mine from.  I am not sure if this is the issue or not, it may help to send your indavidual an email and ask them if they can be of assistance with this.


----------



## NWParamedic

Ok. That is good to hear that their is'nt any real turnover issues. I will send an email regarding this and see what i get back. Stay tuned...


----------



## Hoppymedic

LOL ok I will "stay tuned"... thanks for checking into that for me...  
Guys I promise I am not that big of a "problem child" lol...  but thanks


----------



## NJmedic3250

bmc911 said:


> little update on my status and maybe an FYI for some
> 
> talked with Gaby this morning who is basically the middle person between me and the SRCA and the visa processors. Its been awile that ive been waiting for my visa approval so I contacted her to see what was going on. the police report i sent in wasnt official enough, which is understandable. in CT we just get them from the local PD and its a usually a copy of my actual rap sheet, now hopefully most of you dont even have this but for me i havent exactly been in EMS all my life if you know what i mean. the police report needs to be certified and or notrarized from either state, sheriff, county, etc. has to have a seal and or raised stamp certifying it. also what i found is in CT you can also request what is called a "letter of good standing" which is a certified letter for those that dont have a rap sheet.
> so tonight while im workin i have to go and get a fingerprint card from the PD and send that in with some money to the state, wait 1-2 weeks for my "official" rap sheet and send that to D.C.
> she said i will be good to go after they get that
> 
> now for anyone starting or in the middle of this process i have some words of wisdom. now im from the northeast US, fast paced, impatient, everything done here is conducted as a high speed buissness mentality. slow down, in general Muslims and Arabs dont conduct buissness in this manner. its actually kinda nice. if you find yourself wondering whats going on, contact someone and just ask, email has worked well for me with everyone so far. if you dont hear back, conatct them again. many times i contact someone, wondering or inquiring and end up finding out there is something else needed. the process thus far has really taught me to be patient, things will eventually happen, quicker for some, longer for others.
> 
> HAPPY ST PATRICKS DAY!!!!!!!!!:beerchug: CHEERS!



See, Im glad you posted this. I had a similar issue with my visa packet. I only obtained a "letter of good standing" that does not have a state or county seal on it. Guess its back to the PD for prints and a more intense background check. Thanks for the info and a Happy St Pattys day to you too


----------



## alelkins

Hoppymedic said:


> Hey guys just to let you know I got this today in my inbox
> Dear Sir,
> 
> Thank you for your email. At the moment all the recruitment processes are on hold due to some internal reasons. As soon as we begin recruiting again I will inform you.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Assma AL-Tuwaijri
> Human Resources / Recruiting
> Saudi Red Crescent Authority
> 
> 
> I guess they r still having an issue with their turn over....


Could you please share with me the email addresss for Assma AL-Tuwaijri.


----------



## NWParamedic

alelkins said:


> Could you please share with me the email addresss for Assma AL-Tuwaijri.


Hey all. I recieved an email back regarding the hold on the recruitment process. Here it is:

Dear Sir,
Giving job offers (which is the last stage) is on hold till the end of March but we are currently gathering the required documents so by that time your file will be ready and complete and we can give you a job offer.

International Recruitment
Human Resources
Saudi Red Crescent Authority


----------



## NWParamedic

Check out these plans for future development in Riyadh.

http://www.ajmakan.com/


----------



## Sweety

internal reasons+change in management= ?????Problems in the red crescent maybe


----------



## NWParamedic

Sweety said:


> internal reasons+change in management= ?????Problems in the red crescent maybe


I will remain optimistic and hope that the change in management issue I keep hearing about is for the good.


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

Ok....my curiosity has been peaked and I have tried to read most of the pages but im not that patient. I was wondering what people were getting offered for EMT-I pay. I have 11 years of experience and also do rope rescue and hurst extrication. I have 3 kids and would love to take them and my wife with me. Anyone with any experience feel free to look me up on facebook or send me a email. Thanks in advance. 
Joseph McCormick


----------



## akflightmedic

txredneckmedicmedic said:


> Ok....my curiosity has been peaked and I have tried to read most of the pages but im not that patient. I was wondering what people were getting offered for EMT-I pay. I have 11 years of experience and also do rope rescue and hurst extrication. I have 3 kids and would love to take them and my wife with me. Anyone with any experience feel free to look me up on facebook or send me a email. Thanks in advance.
> Joseph McCormick



If you are too impatient to read the pages of very valuable information for such an important decision, then this job is not for you. Reading would tell you that it will take weeks/months to acquire this position and a lack of patience will not fare you well in KSA either.

Also, a word of advice as a family man who has done a lot of globe trotting...asking about the pay is one of the lesser concerns when you consider these moves with your family. While pay is important, there are a dozen other issues which require extreme consideration prior to moving your family.

Based on this post and your other post, I think you need to sit down and really think about what you are considering as you seem to be flying by the seat of your pants.


----------



## WTEngel

I believe the SRCA is only considering paramedics at this time.


----------



## Hoppymedic

I Agree with AK on this one... If you do not have patients enough to read a few pages of info that is very well worth the read, then maybe you might want to rethink things... not putting you down, mind you, but just thinking that you might want to consider thinking it over a little more and taking in to consideration the family before figuring the money... I understand that the money is sometimes a deciding factor, but it is not the only one.  It would be a great experience and worth the time, my wife was over there in '07 and loved every minut of it.  It is truly worth the time to read the info... take care and good luck to you...


----------



## Hoppymedic

Hey Travis hows it going
whats up with the aviation side of things, i have heard a few rumblings from chad, he is an army buddy of mine


----------



## Hoppymedic

actually from what we are hearing they are not even making "job offers" at this time until the end of march... so at least there is a time line of sorts for that


----------



## NWParamedic

Hey Travis we are eagerly waiting for your next blog post. This is really our one and only source for on the ground info over there. Get with it man.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

http://www.emssaudiarabia.com/ has been down for atleast 2 days now. this is not a good sign?


----------



## NWParamedic

NWParamedic said:


> Hey Travis we are eagerly waiting for your next blog post. This is really our one and only source for on the ground info over there. Get with it man.


I re-read my request Travis and I should have said please.


----------



## NWParamedic

schulz said:


> http://www.emssaudiarabia.com/ has been down for atleast 2 days now. this is not a good sign?


Really. Well of course when information is hard to come by, human speculation begins to fill the void. 

Schultz, 

Did you read my earlier post that they have suspended offers until March? 

Does cause more concern for those of us in process and anxiously waiting through the process.


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

akflightmedic said:


> If you are too impatient to read the pages of very valuable information for such an important decision, then this job is not for you. Reading would tell you that it will take weeks/months to acquire this position and a lack of patience will not fare you well in KSA either.
> 
> Also, a word of advice as a family man who has done a lot of globe trotting...asking about the pay is one of the lesser concerns when you consider these moves with your family. While pay is important, there are a dozen other issues which require extreme consideration prior to moving your family.
> 
> Based on this post and your other post, I think you need to sit down and really think about what you are considering as you seem to be flying by the seat of your pants.



AK....its not that im impatient but the money factor is the biggest factor for us. If we cannot afford to pay our bills then why am I going to bother to invest my time to apply with a company? It worries me a bit when a company does not post their pay scales. And its not a lil bit of information now....its 61 pages.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

txredneckmedicmedic said:


> AK....its not that im impatient but the money factor is the biggest factor for us. If we cannot afford to pay our bills then why am I going to bother to invest my time to apply with a company? It worries me a bit when a company does not post their pay scales. And its not a lil bit of information now....its 61 pages.




Contact the SRCA and ask for the pay range for EMT-I. None of us have any idea because we are all Paramedics. I am not sure if thy are hiring I's currently?


----------



## Jon

schulz said:


> http://www.emssaudiarabia.com/ has been down for atleast 2 days now. this is not a good sign?


I still see the website. Maybe it's an issue with your browser or ISP?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Jon said:


> I still see the website. Maybe it's an issue with your browser or ISP?



Its back up for me now also. It was down for over 2 days


----------



## WTEngel

Just updated my blog last night. I posted pics of the camel race if anyone is interested... Pretty fun stuff!

As I mentioned earlier, I don't believe the SRCA is hiring intermediates at this time.


----------



## NWParamedic

Thanks for the blog post Travis. Quite a bunch of camel jockies. Perfect. Looks like that could be pretty fun. LOL

At your next opportunity, could you blog specifically about what it is like to run a call?

Thanks again.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I would also like to hear this along with what material is currently being used and  available


----------



## NJmedic3250

NWParamedic said:


> Check out these plans for future development in Riyadh.
> 
> http://www.ajmakan.com/



Amazing


----------



## webmedics

*Jems*

And now the SRCA is posting in JEMS again.


----------



## bmc911

txredneckmedicmedic said:


> Ok....my curiosity has been peaked and I have tried to read most of the pages but im not that patient. I was wondering what people were getting offered for EMT-I pay. I have 11 years of experience and also do rope rescue and hurst extrication. I have 3 kids and would love to take them and my wife with me. Anyone with any experience feel free to look me up on facebook or send me a email. Thanks in advance.
> Joseph McCormick



yah........ um a lack of patience definately wont work with this gig. if you had some patience you would have caught my post in regards to having some patience when it comes to the Arab/Muslim culture and im sure many other cultures. as far as pay goes........ we all have bills to pay my friend bt this isnt the job for you if you are alreday asking about money. look into the private jobs on military bases and oil complexes. ive got a friend in Kuwait making good money as an EMT working on a base or complex of some sort. good luck man


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

bmc911 said:


> yah........ um a lack of patience definately wont work with this gig. if you had some patience you would have caught my post in regards to having some patience when it comes to the Arab/Muslim culture and im sure many other cultures. as far as pay goes........ we all have bills to pay my friend bt this isnt the job for you if you are alreday asking about money. look into the private jobs on military bases and oil complexes. ive got a friend in Kuwait making good money as an EMT working on a base or complex of some sort. good luck man



Ok....so you gonna tell me your first question wasnt about pay and benefits?


----------



## bmc911

no.... i waited for their offer and made my decision from there
and the benefits are pretty much listed on their website.

i understand your concern but as mentioned before, take some time to read this thread, youll find just about teverything you need to know. the pay scales vary from medic to medic depending on experience and documentation to support it.


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

I think I have pretty much decided against saudi. I think the wife would go stir crazy not being able to do what she wanted...and she wouldnt be able to bring her horse.


----------



## bmc911

hey, i apologize, wasnt tryin to be a :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:. i just thought of how i probally sounded. 
i hear ya though, leavin my girl, kid and dogs is gonna be the toughest part. more for them than me but tough all the way around


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

BMC....not to sound like a *** or nothing....but if Im going to apply for a job, my first question is what is the pay. Im not going to jump through their hoops to find out that the pay sucks at the end of the deal. I have a family to support and if its going to cost me money at the end of the day to support them than it is not a place I am going to stay. And Ive also learned that it dont matter what people say online im not gonna get pissed.


----------



## bmc911

understandable. i can respect the fact that your family comes first.

 as mentioned, im not sure they are even hiring personal other than medics. i would check the SRCA website and try conacting them via email to see about pay range and if they are accepting apps for EMT/Is. its worth a shot.


----------



## Armor10

You have to have Patience, I was told on February 25th that my Visa was going to be done and that they were going to mail it out the following Wed. Well the good news is that I revived it today Via FedEx.I have it in my hands. I now have to scan a copy and e-mail it to them with the name of my closest International Airport. Looks like I'll be seeing Travis soon, everyone one at the Visa office was great, and very helpful. I know it's not their fault that things took as long as it did. Just think how many people they have to process. My Visa is pasted into my Passport, it looks really cool. I'll let everyone know when I get my travel dates. I'm starting to get a little excited, Travis has made the whole experience look very cool.


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

bmc...their website still lists emt-I's as needed and u can apply


----------



## NWParamedic

texredneckmedic, 

Apply to the website and for the benefit of others in your situation post back here whether they are accepting I's still. Your just going to have to go for it and do the leg work.


----------



## NWParamedic

Armor10 said:


> You have to have Patience, I was told on February 25th that my Visa was going to be done and that they were going to mail it out the following Wed. Well the good news is that I revived it today Via FedEx.I have it in my hands. I now have to scan a copy and e-mail it to them with the name of my closest International Airport. Looks like I'll be seeing Travis soon, everyone one at the Visa office was great, and very helpful. I know it's not their fault that things took as long as it did. Just think how many people they have to process. My Visa is pasted into my Passport, it looks really cool. I'll let everyone know when I get my travel dates. I'm starting to get a little excited, Travis has made the whole experience look very cool.


Armor,

That's awesome. Post just before you get on the plane so we can keep up with your adventure.


----------



## txredneckmedicmedic

NW....I have thought about it but really need to talk with someone that is there already and has a family. Too many questions needing answers and I dont want to get the familys hopes up or piss off anyone else in our familys.


----------



## alelkins

*Family in Riyadh*

​


txredneckmedicmedic said:


> NW....I have thought about it but really need to talk with someone that is there already and has a family. Too many questions needing answers and I dont want to get the familys hopes up or piss off anyone else in our familys.



So far there is only one family there.  One of the guys that is there, his family will be joining him the middle of April.  And myself and children will be meeting my husband there the end of May.


----------



## alelkins

*Family in Riyadh*



txredneckmedicmedic said:


> NW....I have thought about it but really need to talk with someone that is there already and has a family. Too many questions needing answers and I dont want to get the familys hopes up or piss off anyone else in our familys.



So far there is only one family there.  One of the guys that is there, his family will be joining him the middle of April.  And myself and children will be meeting my husband there the end of May.

Christy Elkins


----------



## bmc911

txredneckmedicmedic said:


> bmc...their website still lists emt-I's as needed and u can apply



good deal then.....go for it. you can always jump thru the hoops and say no


----------



## Armor10

Anyone who has gone through the process. Did you have to get your certificates of employment, high school diploma, paramedic diploma and paramedic transcripts stamped by the Saudi Embassy. The Saudi Health Council requires the documentations to be stamped by the Saudi Embassy.

    The Saudi embassy did not stamp my certificates of employment, my high school diploma, or my paramedic transcript's (They did stamp my Paramedic degree Itself). But how were they still able to issue my Visa? I'm really confused by this? Who do I contact at the Saudi Embassy? The closest Saudi Embassy to me is in Los Angles, California almost 16 hours away. Can I have my US embassy in Portland Oregon, Stamp my documents? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## A.Wolkens

*gone through the process.*

I came to KSA without my highschool dip., certificate of employment, and national registry document "unstamped" and its not a problem. The SRCA will just send you to the U.S. embassy to get them stamped there. if anyone has any other questions, just ask.


----------



## bmc911

wolkens.... how long have you been over there?
you on the road yet?
there has been curiosity and questions about protocols, meds, equipment, etc. that i dont believe anyone has elaborated on yet.

im waiting on my visa now.


----------



## Armor10

Ok, I got a call from the SRCA this morning. You can get your documents stamped here in the US, by the Saudi Consulate. It just takes time, I.E sending off your paperwork to DC etc. Or they will fly you over, and they will send you to the US consulate in Riyadh. The plus side is in Riyadh, it takes approx 24 hrs. to get your documents returned, but the price is a little more expensive, then having the Saudi Consulate do it here. A.Wolkens, do you remember what the cost was to get your paperwork stamped at the US consulate? You can PM me. Thanks for the help.


----------



## akflightmedic

bmc911 said:


> you on the road yet?
> there has been curiosity and questions about protocols, meds, equipment, etc. that i dont believe anyone has elaborated on yet.



I agree and this has my curiosity peeked as well. Multiple people have asked different people already there and none respond.


----------



## NWParamedic

akflightmedic said:


> I agree and this has my curiosity peeked as well. Multiple people have asked different people already there and none respond.


Your right, this question has been asked many times on this blog with no clear answer. I do remember reading somewhere, from somebody, I a have been reading so many blogs I don't remember, that the protocols have just been produced and was available by .pdf. So it sounds like these basic things we take for granted are still in development over there.


----------



## alelkins

*Visa*

Finally have my visa in hand.  Just emailed scanned copies to SRCA for travel arrangements.  Looking like I may finally be getting close.


----------



## NWParamedic

alelkins said:


> Finally have my visa in hand.  Just emailed scanned copies to SRCA for travel arrangements.  Looking like I may finally be getting close.


Congrats! Let us know when you leave.


----------



## bmc911

rock-on..........hopefully see ya soon

my 2 brain cells are stirring up a memory....hold on.......think ive got it.........oh yah, i emailed someone from the SRCA a while ago asking for protocols to start reviewing and was told he would send me the protocols as soon as they are available. i do also remember hearing they were being worked on.

still the question remains, while the protocols are being worked on what are medics actually using as far as meds and treatments now. i mean, are they BLS flycars, ACLS meds only, ECGs?????
dont get me wrong, im looking forward to getting over there and working, i dont care if im playing the meat wagon attendant role.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I am right behind you guys( I hope )

Does anyone know if I can attach a note with payment along with my visa paper work when I send it in to have them stamp everything needed? It sounds like the guy in DC who stamps the 1 item with your work visa could stamp all the items you need if you told him to and paid him. Maybe Ill just call and ask and let everyone know


----------



## alelkins

I was told by the Saudi Embassy in DC that the high school diploma (as all education related documents) has to be stamped by another entity; some sort of cultural/education office. When my e-mail was replied to from SRC HR, it indicated I had the option to bring the documents to Saudi and have the US Embassy stamp them there...thinking thats what I'm gonna do...


----------



## Armor10

Yes, you can get your things stamped at the US Embassy in Riyadh. Only problem is it's Like 30.00 US per page. So the downside is it's more expensive. The plus side is you get them back with in 24hrs. So quick turn around.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

bmc911 said:


> rock-on..........hopefully see ya soon
> 
> my 2 brain cells are stirring up a memory....hold on.......think ive got it.........oh yah, i emailed someone from the SRCA a while ago asking for protocols to start reviewing and was told he would send me the protocols as soon as they are available. i do also remember hearing they were being worked on.
> 
> still the question remains, while the protocols are being worked on what are medics actually using as far as meds and treatments now. i mean, are they BLS flycars, ACLS meds only, ECGs?????
> dont get me wrong, im looking forward to getting over there and working, i dont care if im playing the meat wagon attendant role.



Jay said they have LP 12's, EZ IO, and most of the meds but some are coming in slow. However that was only for th flight side...

I have herd the ground units are having a difficult time acquiring a lot of ALS equipment and meds. I have asked this question several times and no one has ever replied with any answer. What meds are available and being used, are 12 leads being used on the ground? ect ect

PS: Travis has a good blog, but this guy also has a good blog I follow http://rawinsaudi.blogspot.com/ He is on the flight side of things and got there after Travis for those who are new to this.


----------



## Armor10

Hey this is to anyone living over there right now. Does anyone know what kind of facilities they have over there for working out? Travis had mentioned a pool that was getting fixed. Any free weights, Tread Mill's, Bike's?? I have been training for a Sprint Course Triathlon over the last six months. So I would like to keep up working out. Also is anyone in the new compound yet? They had mentioned that some people were in temporary housing. Anyone in perminate housing yet?


----------



## Tony Muir

The current compound is basic but functional.  If you are single, you will share in a 2/3 bedroom cojoined apartment.  Once you have completed the recruitment process and signed your contracts, you may be given the option to move to the Olaya House Hotel or to take your housing allowance and fend for yourself.

If you are bringing your wife/family you will be accommodated in your own 2/3bedroom cojoined apartment.  Once your contract is signed you have the same options as above, although your hotel option includes adjoining rooms dependent on the size of your family.

The hotel option includes breakfast to SR30 and Dinner to 70SR daily.

The current compound is old, however issues such as cleanliness, water pressure and sanitation either have been, or currently are being addressed.

There is no current status available on a new/permanent compound.


----------



## Sweety

Hi 'yall

Compound availability in Riyadh is very poor with most havin 12-18 month waiting lists. There are lists on the net with numbers call and confirm this. I feel for you new red crescent guys, your situation doesnt look good:unsure:


----------



## bmc911

no worries, cant be any worse then some of the slums ive taken up residence in and im sure it beats a tent in the sand. 
i turned down a tit suburban flycar gig to stay working in the ghettos here at home. i know its not the same, but im alright with an adventure and minimal luxarys


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Sweety where and who do you work for?


----------



## Sweety

Hi'ya 

I work in Riyadh for one of the main medical facilities. I think I mentioned this in earlier posts if you look back! Suns out time to work on the tan:blush:


----------



## Flight Med

Hey NJ Fist pumper...You should come see me in 303.  Getting a little lonely here!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Herd back from one of our guys over there regarding meds and equipment. 

_"Things are sparce here. Medications are very limited. Got the airway stuff, monitor, iv's. The big thing is medication. Very slim pickings. Just have to make due with what you got."_


----------



## MMiz

schulz said:


> Herd back from one of our guys over there regarding meds and equipment.
> 
> _"Things are sparce here. Medications are very limited. Got the airway stuff, monitor, iv's. The big thing is medication. Very slim pickings. Just have to make due with what you got."_


I remember reading an article and watching a video about a year ago where Saudi Arabia was struggling to even keep their large hospitals stocked with medication and equipment.

Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SviggsyPaN8


----------



## NWParamedic

*Everything is In!*

No new news here for most of you but i felt compelled to announce that I have emailed all preliminary items that the SRCA requested to get an interview. My last item came in today, my HS Diploma, and I promptly emailed in off. So now I wait.


----------



## Armor10

Ok, guys just got the call. Will be flying out April 7th. Doesn't seem real, but soon I'll be over there. If anyone needs any help, or has any questions let me know. Looks like I have made it through the whole process.


----------



## NJmedic3250

Armor10 said:


> Ok, guys just got the call. Will be flying out April 7th. Doesn't seem real, but soon I'll be over there. If anyone needs any help, or has any questions let me know. Looks like I have made it through the whole process.



Very nice! Quick couple of questions. How long did it take you to get a departure date after sending them the copy of your visa? Do you have control over when you leave?


----------



## NWParamedic

Armor10 said:


> Ok, guys just got the call. Will be flying out April 7th. Doesn't seem real, but soon I'll be over there. If anyone needs any help, or has any questions let me know. Looks like I have made it through the whole process.


Congratulations. Just keep us informed as much as possible. I know I will be following your blog. I think you know all the questions already.


----------



## alelkins

*Heading to Riyadh*

I will be heading over next Wednesday the 7th.  Finally!


----------



## NWParamedic

alelkins said:


> I will be heading over next Wednesday the 7th.  Finally!


Your traveling on the 7th also. Well congratulations to you also. Keep us informed. Long time coming EH!


----------



## Armor10

It took a week after getting my Visa to get my walking papers prior to me leaving. Yes they were willing to work with me. I could have left the 14th if I wanted to, but I have everything all ready to go. So I'm leaving, just remember don't quit your job until your Visa is in your hand and your looking at it. Alelkins and I going to be traveling together. I think, on the same flight out of DC. I'll know more when I get my E-ticket Saturday.


----------



## Hoppymedic

Good deal Armor I am glad to hear that things have finally gone through for ya... I am still waiting... I have been busy lately and have just caught up with things... the wife just went to Kuwait with CHS on monday so trying to get this done.... have a safe trip and look forward to meeting you guys


----------



## NJmedic3250

Armor10 said:


> It took a week after getting my Visa to get my walking papers prior to me leaving. Yes they were willing to work with me. I could have left the 14th if I wanted to, but I have everything all ready to go. So I'm leaving, just remember don't quit your job until your Visa is in your hand and your looking at it. Alelkins and I going to be traveling together. I think, on the same flight out of DC. I'll know more when I get my E-ticket Saturday.



Excellent! Well safe travels and see you guys over there...


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Anyone coming through with  action aviation, be careful things are getting pretty serious over here.


----------



## alelkins

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> Anyone coming through with  action aviation, be careful things are getting pretty serious over here.



Can you be more specific as to what you mean "getting pretty serious"?


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

alekis pm me i will tell you.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

I have a blog about my SRCA process if anyone is interested mikerockssaudi.blogspot.com


----------



## WTEngel

*Action Aviation vs. SRCA*

For those of you in the SRCA process, keep in mind that SRCA and Action Aviation are two completely separate companies. 

Any questions regarding the status of Action Aviation need to be directed to Action Aviation.

Any questions regarding the status of SRCA need to be directed to your handler with SRCA if you have been assigned one, and if you have not been assigned one, you may email the general e mail address on the emssaudiarabia.com website.

That is the best advice I can give anyone right now. Do not get caught up in the rumor mill and go directly to the source if you have inquiries, it may save you a lot of grief.


----------



## Sweety

Hi'ya Travis

Did you go to the brunch last week at the US?


----------



## WTEngel

*Embassy brunch*

My roommate and I had tickets, but unfortunately we were unable to attend.

We had to work the Janadriyah festival and we could not get a day off. Oh well, I will go next month if I don't have any schedule conflicts. 

Did you make it to the Friday Easter church service at the SA Embassy? I was going to go to that also, but again, Janadriyah. 

As nice as that festival was, I am glad it is finished! It was wreaking havoc on my social calendar!


----------



## Sweety

Your up late Travis. The brunch was pretty good. I knw the feeling about work getting in the way of a good time Take care try and catch up next month


----------



## WTEngel

On an unrelated note, I had been thinking about this for a little bit, and I was wondering if anyone else thought it would be of benefit. 

Does anyone think having a thread for spouses of people applying for SRCA would be worthwhile? I am sure the wives have a bunch of questions not related to the hiring process, and it might be nice for them to have a thread to communicate and have a support system for when / if they arrive in country...

Anyway, just a thought...(best Linda Richmond "Coffee Talk" impersonation) Discuss it amongst yourselves....


----------



## A.Wolkens

*hello again*

sorry i havent replied to anyone but i have been living at the compound without internet until a few days ago. The cost to get your things stamped at the U.S. embassy is 30 dollars per document and it only takes a few minutes actually and i'm not on the road yet. im waiting for my residency then i will be ready.


----------



## Judy

WTEngel said:


> On an unrelated note, I had been thinking about this for a little bit, and I was wondering if anyone else thought it would be of benefit.
> 
> Does anyone think having a thread for spouses of people applying for SRCA would be worthwhile? I am sure the wives have a bunch of questions not related to the hiring process, and it might be nice for them to have a thread to communicate and have a support system for when / if they arrive in country...
> 
> Anyway, just a thought...(best Linda Richmond "Coffee Talk" impersonation) Discuss it amongst yourselves....



Hi Travis
I think this is a good idea.
Judy


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Has anyone heard from the medics left at the intercon, are they safe?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> Has anyone heard from the medics left at the intercon, are they safe?



what is the intercon, why where they left there?


----------



## rhousewa

*Safety Questions*

Thank you all for your concerns but their are currently no new safety issues or danger to expats over here.  If you have questions take Travis's advice...

"For those of you in the SRCA process, keep in mind that SRCA and Action Aviation are two completely separate companies. 

Any questions regarding the status of Action Aviation need to be directed to Action Aviation.

Any questions regarding the status of SRCA need to be directed to your handler with SRCA if you have been assigned one, and if you have not been assigned one, you may email the general e mail address on the emssaudiarabia.com website."  

Good luck in your process.  Jeff


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Yes they were left to basically fend for themselves, and the hotel increased patrols to make sure they didn't leave, and possibly the passports were flagged by saudi immigration so they cant leave the country


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Apparently some events were put into place to get them home with in a few days.


----------



## MMiz

All those saying that Action Aviation and The Saudi Red Crescent Authority are two entirely separate entities may be technically correct, but in reality they worked very closely to recruit both ground and air personnel.  Some people who visited our community applied with both agencies, with the idea of going with whichever one responded first.  

The fact that the Saudi Red Crescent Authority and Action Aviation are allegedly having issues and have a strained business relationship doesn't reflect well on either party.  I would certainly be cautious about proceeding at this point.


----------



## celts

*Srca be warned*

SRCA have acted in an totally unethical and hostile way to the Action Aviation Medics stuck in the crossfire between the 2 companies.  With what has been happening who on earth in their right minds would want to work for such a organization lacking in ethics and morals when it comes to recruitment, HR and EMS???  Anybody considering making such a substantial life changing move to work for SRCA be warned and go into this with your eyes wide open.  SRCA have a terrible reputation for not paying their bills, deception practices and altering contracts once you are in country.  Sure you may be lucky and not have any issues but are you willing to move 1/2 way across the world for such as organization that behaves in a manner like this.  And yes the Saudi Air Ambulance team was to be managed with minimal designation between SRC employees and Action Aviation.  All the one team.  To say anything to the contrary is deceptive.  Ohh and actually the money on offer really is not that great for the hoops you have to jump through.


----------



## akflightmedic

I wish everyone the best of luck...but think about this...there is an entire group of medical people who have been contracting for years and years. We jump from one place to the next for money, adventure, change of pace...you name it.

Does anyone wonder why "career contractors" are not all over this job? Does anyone wonder why the majority of the staff are people new to overseas contracting?


----------



## Sweety

It is such a shame. Hospital staff dont call them dead crescents for no reason. Some of the gals were chatting today in the lunch room about all the guys that they have met who have left because of the activities in the organization. 

Such a shame as the community will suffer because of the actions of few, who no doubt are looking after their own interests or were given positions because of the old 'wasta'.

I wonder what the International Red Cross Red Crescent Federation would say if they knew how poorly the Saudi service operated.  

Good luck guys


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Well said, Sweety Mimz, AK. This was my first contract job, and career contractors stated they never saw a company, and organization ran this way.
Some contractor Pilots said that some of their buddies would never work in Saudi Arabia, because well its Saudi Arabia. The management left several medics to fend for themselves, and then due to activities done by action the Red Crescent held them at the Hotel and held the individuals responsible for their hotel, and services bill. Some were excess of 28000. When the going got tough the fearless leaders ran for the boarder without telling a group of people that depended on them for guidance.


----------



## NWParamedic

celts said:


> SRCA have acted in an totally unethical and hostile way to the Action Aviation Medics stuck in the crossfire between the 2 companies.  With what has been happening who on earth in their right minds would want to work for such a organization lacking in ethics and morals when it comes to recruitment, HR and EMS???  Anybody considering making such a substantial life changing move to work for SRCA be warned and go into this with your eyes wide open.  SRCA have a terrible reputation for not paying their bills, deception practices and altering contracts once you are in country.  Sure you may be lucky and not have any issues but are you willing to move 1/2 way across the world for such as organization that behaves in a manner like this.  And yes the Saudi Air Ambulance team was to be managed with minimal designation between SRC employees and Action Aviation.  All the one team.  To say anything to the contrary is deceptive.  Ohh and actually the money on offer really is not that great for the hoops you have to jump through.


Hmmm...

Anyone from SRCA wish to clarify some of these issues?

A little concerning when someone like myself has completed all the Prelim paperwork and is waiting for an interview and job offer.


----------



## Sweety

Best to ask people within the Srca, where is ameriki and husband that work on the ground? They posted early in the piece and have been quite lately.  They may be able to shed some light. You could always call the trade section of your embassy for information.


----------



## celts

Sweety said:


> Best to ask people within the Srca, where is ameriki and husband that work on the ground? They posted early in the piece and have been quite lately.  They may be able to shed some light. You could always call the trade section of your embassy for information.



Do you guys believe that anybody from the SRCA are going to post anything negative???  In light of recent events!!!  Especially if their identities are known.  Embassies do not really care unless it is something that makes headlines or is a threat to their national interests.

I am sure there are some positive stories to tell but its a big move to make unless you are 100% sure.


----------



## rhousewa

*Srca*

As I have read these past 68 pages of posts I have not commented publically very often and have shared some PMs with people who have asked. However  I find myself concerned when I read statements like, "And yes the Saudi Air Ambulance team was to be managed with minimal designation between SRC employees and Action Aviation. All the one team. To say anything to the contrary is deceptive. Ohh and actually the money on offer really is not that great for the hoops you have to jump through."  Who signed the Action employee's checks?  I don't believe it was SRCA and if the offer was so bad why did people jump through the hoops?  As far as,  "Does anyone wonder why "career contractors" are not all over this job? Does anyone wonder why the majority of the staff are people new to overseas contracting?"  There are medics here from Germany, UK, Africa, Astailia, and US, many with multiple years of International experience so if you have an opinion why not try to keep your posts accurate.  Of all the posts condemning  SRCA, how many of them are written by people who have worked for SRCA and have firsthand knowledge of SRCA???  "Do you guys believe that anybody from the SRCA are going to post anything negative???"  Maybe the people working for SRCA aren’t making negative posts because they don't have anything negative to say.  By the way, I have seen posts from 5 different SRCA employees which are in country in the last 4 pages of this thread.  We have the opportunity to talk and we have been saying what we think needs to be said.  Respectfully,  Jeff


----------



## akflightmedic

My comments about career contractors was directed to the US members of the forum...the ones where the dollar amount being paid is not worth the hassle.

The other nations you mention have better exchange rates...which is why we tend to recruit from those nations as well. I have South African, New Zealand, Polish, and Australian medical staff on my payroll....even had one German. It is worth it to them, but definitely not for the majority of US contractors.

And if you will review, the majority if not all of the US new hires are neophytes to overseas contracting as evidenced by their posts, questions and this entire contract.

As for no one posting anything negatively, having been a visitor of KSA and having many friends who have worked there, I know how heavily the internet is monitored and censored first hand. Dispute that...you can't. If I were in that country, I would not say one single negative thing...you can't cause you are no longer in your home country and you have no freedom of speech in order to condemn the kingdom, royalty or anything else pertaining to their religious beliefs.

This is why you see NOTHING negative from someone who is there. You do not bite the hand that feeds you until you find another hand.

I will say again, I wish all the best of luck because you will need it.


----------



## NWParamedic

*Thread for Spouses*

Travis proposed a thread for spouses to chat amongst each other. I spoke to my wife about it and she would start the thread if no one else is or wants to. 

Could One of you forum captains or chiefs chime in hear and let us know ?

Thx


----------



## WTEngel

Since I proposed it, I suppose I will jump out there and start it! Stand by, I will post it right after this post...

If possible, could it be stickied near the SRCA thread, for ease of use.

BTW, I am one of the first expats to arrive since this new recruiting effort started, I arrived in January for those who do not know. I would like to think that I have provided an objective overview of what MY experience has been. I have listed the things I am happy about, and the things that I would like to see improved.

I am very happy here in Saudi with the SRCA as an employer, and even though there have been some humps in the road, the SRCA has lived up to the obligations they set forth in MY contract thus far. 

As I posted earlier, for those of you really interested, go to the source (SRCA or Action Aviation respectively). You would be ill advised to take the internet postings of a few people who have never worked for the SRCA as gospel. Avoid the rumor mill, it will save you a lot of trouble in the end.

TE


----------



## NWParamedic

WTEngel said:


> Since I proposed it, I suppose I will jump out there and start it! Stand by, I will post it right after this post...
> 
> If possible, could it be stickied near the SRCA thread, for ease of use.
> 
> BTW, I am one of the first expats to arrive since this new recruiting effort started, I arrived in January for those who do not know. I would like to think that I have provided an objective overview of what MY experience has been. I have listed the things I am happy about, and the things that I would like to see improved.
> 
> I am very happy here in Saudi with the SRCA as an employer, and even though there have been some humps in the road, the SRCA has lived up to the obligations they set forth in MY contract thus far.
> 
> As I posted earlier, for those of you really interested, go to the source (SRCA or Action Aviation respectively). You would be ill advised to take the internet postings of a few people who have never worked for the SRCA as gospel. Avoid the rumor mill, it will save you a lot of trouble in the end.
> 
> TE


Thanks Travis for leadership with the new thread and your measured comments regarding your experiences with the SRCA. 

I would like to chime in and echo what Travis has put forth regarding his experience with the SRCA. Although I have not been offered a position yet, my interaction and communications with the SRCA HR department have been upfront, punctual, professional and I believe honest. I have done quite a bit of research, as much as possible from afar, and have spoken to many of you EMS expats working over there. And essentially what Travis just explained is what I am hearing from all of you. I do believe the EMS system is, at it's core, having some significant growing pains. But it does'nt take going back in our own EMS history very far to remember that EMS is still a discipline that is still defining itself even today here in the states. With that said, you have to assume that the same issues that we in America have solved and are still working on will be present there. Imagine taking our EMS history and distilling it into the last few years of there early development. I believe all of us EMS expats have an opportunity to show just how great the American spirit is and how we can assist another country in thier trials and tribulations in EMS. Finally, I think we all need to follow the Lead that Travis has put forth which is to maintain a measured, positive and respectful approach to assisting the KSA on their road to EMS success.


----------



## goatlab

Having been "boots on the ground" I would like to clarify a couple of issues. After the SRCA notified the Intercontinental Hotel on Sunday they would no long be their responsibility for Action Aviation personnel bills, which SRCA had hadn't paid in 5 months, it was alleged Action Aviation left the paramedics to fend for themselves. That is absolutely FALSE. The company made arrangements so that no one would be held individually responsible. 
There were threats made that no one could leave, if they did they'd be arrested and thrown in jail, and the hotel sent a list of names to immigrations. While these threats were made they were merely to put pressure on Action Aviation. In true, no list was sent by the hotel to immigrations, no one was arrested, and people who wanted to leave did so free and clear. 
I would encourage everyone is considering working for the SRCA to do their homework and make an educated decision. 
Few years ago the SRCA hired 60 paramedics; of those approximately 8 remain. The others became frustrated and left. May ask the SRCA recruiter. 
Good Luck to Everyone.


----------



## goatlab

Having been "boots on the ground" I would like to clarify a couple of issues. After the SRCA notified the Intercontinental Hotel on Sunday they would no long be their responsibility for Action Aviation personnel bills, which SRCA had hadn't paid in 5 months, it was alleged Action Aviation left the paramedics to fend for themselves. That is absolutely FALSE. The company made arrangements so that no one would be held individually responsible. 
There were threats made that no one could leave, if they did they'd be arrested and thrown in jail, and the hotel sent a list of names to immigrations. While these threats were made they were merely to put pressure on Action Aviation. In true, no list was sent by the hotel to immigrations, no one was arrested, and people who wanted to leave did so free and clear. 
I would encourage everyone is considering working for the SRCA to do their homework and make an educated decision. 
Few years ago the SRCA hired 60 paramedics; of those approximately 8 remain. The others became frustrated and left. May ask the SRCA recruiter. 
Good Luck to Everyone.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

The hotel tried to stick the individuals responsible because they changed their contract with action. The employees themselves worked hard to find documentation stating they weren't responsible. It was 2 weeks of a pissing match between the scra and action. Those that really suffered were the the field staff. There were daily safety briefings as to whether all the stress of the hourly situation changes would take the crews mind out of the cockpit. A concern that was brought up by the piolts, and med crews. Travis ask two of your fellow scra workers one of them that left due to the nonsense he experienced how the scra had promises of paying for education for their families only to find out that that it was changed a 40,000 sar difference. Action aviation employees were to be given a choice to switch to become scra and not one medic was excited to hear they wanted us to become under scra. I myself would have not switched and stayed an action employee for as long as I could. There other medics that visit this site that if they agree wih that chime in. As I  only speakng for myself.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

But goatload you are correct action didn't leave the medics to fend for themselves, the flight team leaders chief and assistant chief fled the hotel and Saudi. The medics that were left behind and numerous Other staff medics had no way of contacting them. They also didn't pass along the warninthro the other medics or offer them a ride to the airport. How is that not "leavi g them to fend forthemselves" So you are in a foreign country with threats if you leave they will jail you and flag your passports, were scare tactics to force thier obedience. Sounds like psycological tourture.


----------



## WTEngel

I only speak for my experiences with the SRCA. I had heard of the education allowance being changed, but I have no children, and the problem does not involve me, therefore I can not speak to the circumstances surrounding it. That would be good advice for others to follow.

NJ you are leveling a lot of accusations and I am certain you do not know the entire story. I can positively say that you do not know the entire story because:

a) you have not been in country, 
b) the information you are getting is fragmented, and 
c) nobody over here except for a very few high level personnel actually will ever know the full story of what happened, as this situation has been brewing for a very long time, and is more complicated than I ever care to know.

All of the things I am saying in defense of SRCA are based on my experiences, having been in this country for 3 months. I only speak to my experiences, which have been positive. There have been a few other medics relating their positive experiences with SRCA. The only people relating negative experiences are former employees of Action Aviation, looking for someone to blame for their current hardship, which is unfortunate.

As for the SRCA employee who left, I can honestly say that nobody (ground staff, flight staff, SRCA management, and Action Aviation management) was sad to see him go, and the general consensus among everyone was that we are better off without his type around.

I will tell everyone here, that if I had concerns about the current state of things, I would post them. I have been a supporter of SRCA, and I would hate to see people coming here and becoming unhappy or get into a financial bind based on my advice. If I begin to think differently I will tell you guys, until then, I will continue to support the SRCA.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Travis you are wrong in that I have indeed been in KSA I just finished my first rotation (8 weeks) or 60 days and I am currently on my off rotation. Oh trust me I know hats going on over there!
We are even friends on facebook.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

I know you are a strong supporter of SCRA.
If I wasn't in Saudi Arabia, then where the hell was I?? I will show you my visa and exit entrance stamps to anyone that wants to see just pm me.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Travis I know you self appointed yourself as the Official welcoming committee, but, I guess you appointed yourself the "information department about Riyadh" as well.
You haven't met all of us flight medics that were on rotation, guess thats why I didn't make it into your Blog! But I bet this conversation will make it in there.
I can have one of the medics come on here that was "LEFT TO FEND FOR HIMSELF" to someone that had tried to discredit me on that point.
Travis you worked on the ground and never made it to the flight team, cause you took pictures, a serious security flaw of how people could get into that housing complex  That upset the others living in your compound.
This I know cause a base manager of the SCRA told me this.


----------



## helimedic39

*I vouch for NJ*

Hey Travis, when you say NJ was not KSA, you are most wrong. I have just returned from working there and I had the pleasure of working with him. He is indeed on his 30 day off rotation. So when i speaks of what's going on, this is not heresay. Plus, you would not say anything bad about SRCA because sites like this are monitored and surely if you did say something bad, you might have consequences to pay. Surely there are multiple sides to the stories and events that happen there. Based on history itself, i'm more inclined to side with my company.


----------



## WTEngel

*I stand corrected*

I stand corrected, I have seen another NJ medic who posted on here a few pages back who has not been over yet, and assumed it was you.

You are right NJ, I have not met all of the flight guys, and sadly, looks like we will not be meeting either. Good luck finding your next assignment, I hope it works out better than the last one you took.

As for making the flight team and taking pictures, I was assigned to the ground by the supervisors, so that is where I work. There are plenty of other guys taking pictures of the compound, and as far as security goes, if someone wants to capture me, they certainly can, regardless of whether or not they know what the compound looks like...

I still stand by the fact that there is a lot of fragmented 3rd party information being passed around, and this situation is more complicated than any of us will ever know.

That does not make it right that Action Aviation did not pay you guys, and that does not make it right that Action Aviation ditched you guys and left you to fend for yourselves, I agree the situation is bad for all involved. 

The SRCA guys still have jobs and are still getting paid, which is more than I can say for Action Aviation.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Travis I am sure all of this would have been different if there was only SRCA running the flight program if you catch my drift. As in we may all have jobs and gotten paid lol


----------



## helimedic39

Alright, lots of stuff happened in a very short amount of time out there. True, we have not been paid. Not sure why, but we are told that the company was not paid. And when a company is not paid for a numerous amount of months, it's a little tough to make payroll. Now i'm not saying i agree with this by any means. The initial chain of events did occur when we were told we would be responsible for our accommodation. I will not go into details about this on a public forum but everything is not as it appears. Simply put, the contract between SRC and AA was not adhered to. We were all able to leave the country without being blacklisted or owe any money. Action made sure of that. There was initial info from the hotel managers that if we left, we would be stopped at immigration and that our passport info was passed onto them by request of SRC. So who knows what's going on there. Hope it all works out well and operations can continue on. Not to optimistic about that though.


----------



## WTEngel

The situation is not good all around. I hate to be arguing about something that in the end is just a bad deal.

I hope you guys get paid, one way or another. I would not wish missing a payroll check on anyone, especially in these trying financial times.

I also hope the program continues on. Whether you are from SRCA or Action Aviation, we can all agree on how desperately the patients in this country need the services, both ground and flight.

With all of that being said, I am going to keep my head up, stay positive, and keep working just as hard as I would at home. 

I really sincerely hope things work out well for you guys, everyone deserves to be paid what they are owed by Action Aviation.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Wow all this talk and Rob's blog saying its all ended makes me a little nervous. I am going with the SRCA for ground, not Action. Are there any SRCA employees who are not Action that can give us an update? It sounds like Travis is doing well... Any others?

I am still planning on going, look forward to meeting Travis and whoever else is still there. I am prepared for some hardships just in case also.


----------



## helimedic39

I've said it's ended..for now..it's possible all this could turn around and everything works out. It's just a waiting game at this point. The king requested this program and won't let it fail. I'm not sure if he is aware of the events that have taken place. Everyone will do what's in their best interest. All of us are still employed by Action and should things turn for the better, all of us were offered to return to resume the project. That being said, there would have to assurances, big ones. The srca flight medics are not flying now because there is no aircraft to fly. Nor are there any pilots or mechanics. Not sure if they have been placed on the ambulance in the meantime. Several people have been fired from SRC as well. So it's not just an action aviation thing going on. People on both sides of the spectrum are being effected.


----------



## celts

WTEngel said:


> I stand corrected, I have seen another NJ medic who posted on here a few pages back who has not been over yet, and assumed it was you.
> 
> You are right NJ, I have not met all of the flight guys, and sadly, looks like we will not be meeting either. Good luck finding your next assignment, I hope it works out better than the last one you took.
> 
> As for making the flight team and taking pictures, I was assigned to the ground by the supervisors, so that is where I work. There are plenty of other guys taking pictures of the compound, and as far as security goes, if someone wants to capture me, they certainly can, regardless of whether or not they know what the compound looks like...
> 
> I still stand by the fact that there is a lot of fragmented 3rd party information being passed around, and this situation is more complicated than any of us will ever know.
> 
> That does not make it right that Action Aviation did not pay you guys, and that does not make it right that Action Aviation ditched you guys and left you to fend for yourselves, I agree the situation is bad for all involved.
> 
> The SRCA guys still have jobs and are still getting paid, which is more than I can say for Action Aviation.



Hey Travis...dont worry man.  You could get just as easily screwed like many many before you have.  Its a fact!!!


----------



## Sweety

WTEngel said:


> I still stand by the fact that there is a lot of fragmented 3rd party information being passed around, and this situation is more complicated than any of us will ever know.




Hi'yall 

Wow what a headcahe for all involved. Such a shame. The truth eventually comes out and my greenbacks is on the Saudis screwing things up and pointing the finger at others. Happens here in the hospital daily.

One of the gals I work with is quiet upset as a close friend of hers working on the ground left in such a hurry without even a goodbye. She found out from another gal that heard on the grapevine tonight that his contract was not going to be renewed for no reason at all by the Managers. No one we know has heard from him so we hope he is ok (probably in Ibizia Chloe reckons)

Thats what it's like here, the Saudis do as they please with no remorse.


----------



## MMiz

According to helimedic's blog:



> Well, talk about a roller coaster ride. I'm back in the states for now.  The program is shut down at this point.



That doesn't sound so good.


----------



## WTEngel

Just to clarify...

Action Aviation's portion of the program is shut down at this point.

SRCA ground ops are still up and running without effect.


----------



## Sweety

Hi'ya Travis

Is it true two more ground medics departed over the weekend? That is not positive news for you guys.


----------



## goatlab

WTEngel said:


> Just to clarify...
> 
> Action Aviation's portion of the program is shut down at this point.
> 
> SRCA ground ops are still up and running without effect.



Travis
Your clarity lacks clarity.   You're right Action Aviation's portion of the program is shut down at this point. No argument, but it wasn't AA who discontinued the service it was SRCA. In fact, SRCA sent a letter to air traffic control telling them not to allow AA aircraft to fly.


----------



## WTEngel

Sweety, as far as I know, that is not true. None of the SRCA employees have resigned or departed over the weekend.

Goatlab, my statement is perfectly clear, Action Aviation is no longer operational in Saudi Arabia, and SRCA ground ops are still operating without effect. I don't see anything unclear about it.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Is anyone that is currently working for the SRCA ground service still on this forum? We are in communication with Travis but I have not herd from anyone else.


----------



## NWParamedic

Schultz,

I understand you and Armor got your travel date for Wed April 14th. Congratulations. I got an email yesterday indicating they will contact me by the end of the week to let me know if my file is complete and they want to hire me. You guys be sure to communicate your experience when you hit the ground.


----------



## Flight-LP

akflightmedic said:


> My comments about career contractors was directed to the US members of the forum...the ones where the dollar amount being paid is not worth the hassle.
> 
> The other nations you mention have better exchange rates...which is why we tend to recruit from those nations as well. I have South African, New Zealand, Polish, and Australian medical staff on my payroll....even had one German. It is worth it to them, but definitely not for the majority of US contractors.
> 
> And if you will review, the majority if not all of the US new hires are neophytes to overseas contracting as evidenced by their posts, questions and this entire contract.
> 
> As for no one posting anything negatively, having been a visitor of KSA and having many friends who have worked there, I know how heavily the internet is monitored and censored first hand. Dispute that...you can't. If I were in that country, I would not say one single negative thing...you can't cause you are no longer in your home country and you have no freedom of speech in order to condemn the kingdom, royalty or anything else pertaining to their religious beliefs.
> 
> This is why you see NOTHING negative from someone who is there. You do not bite the hand that feeds you until you find another hand.
> 
> I will say again, I wish all the best of luck because you will need it.



Well spoken!

I had one converstation with SRCA about this position. After getting the details, I didn't need to hear another word and quickly moved on. I can make that pay here in the US without the drama, the politics, and the aggrevation.

Good luck guys! I hope for the best for you.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Armor is flying out that day, I am still waiting on my authorization letter which has been on hold for over a month. I will update everyone here and on my blog when I get it. I am suppose to talk to them again on the 14th



NWParamedic said:


> Schultz,
> 
> I understand you and Armor got your travel date for Wed April 14th. Congratulations. I got an email yesterday indicating they will contact me by the end of the week to let me know if my file is complete and they want to hire me. You guys be sure to communicate your experience when you hit the ground.


----------



## Yurong

Hello everyone! I haven't posted in awhile because I hadn't heard much about my status. I applied back in October of last year and after getting all my documents together I received a preliminary job offer via email in the end of January. I accepted the preliminary offer and was told that I would receive a fed-X package with additional information and a contract to sign. After not hearing anything for about two and a half weeks I sent an email asking if there was anything else that I needed to do. The next day I received a phone call from a female (cannot recall the name) who said that due to some internal issues that it would be a little longer. She was apparently looking at my preliminary offer and told me that there would be a couple of changes and I would receive a new offer once again Fed-X. 

I didn't hear anything for another couple of weeks and then out of the blue received a phone call from a another guy, very obviously american. He said that they needed a notarized copy of my employment history and a notarized high school diploma. I spoke with him for a good 20 or 30 minutes and he cleared up several questions I had about what was going on. I am finishing up my bachelors degree in Emergency Medical Care at Eastern Kentucky University (Graduation in 3 weeks now thank God) and have several Saudi friends that were apparently students of the gentleman I spoke with.  

Anyway, I have one additional course to take over the summer so I won't be able to get in country until at least the beginning of September, but I emailed scanned copies of everything they had requested and am really hoping to hear back with a final job offer in the next little bit. 

Anyway, I have been trying to keep up with what has been going on and as I understand it the guys that went through action aviation got screwed because the SRCA did something with actions contract which made action miss payroll. So far as I understand the people that are on the ground that originally contracted with the SRCA have been paid on time and the terms of their contracts are being met. *What my question is, when I call back my recruiter and speak with him, is there any particular issues that people are having that I should ask to have clarified and/ or written into my contract?*

Also, for the rest of you did the SRCA request the notarized employment certificate prior to making the final offer? From what I have read this was requested after they received a paper contract. Just trying to get a feel on where I am in the process.


----------



## NWParamedic

Yurong,

I have not recieved a job offer yet, but I can answer one of your questions and that is I was required to to have notarized employment verification letters for all employers prior to a job offer. 

I have observed clear changes in SRCA's employment process and as changes occur within the SRCA organization, changes are reflected and are evolving in our process as well. 

So the process you began in November is different than my process that I started in March.


----------



## alelkins

*Heading to Riyadh*

I finally got my e-tickets.  I am leaving on Wed the 14th.


----------



## Armor10

I too received my E-tickets and am Flying out on April 14th. I'll let you guys know when I hit the ground.


----------



## NJmedic3250

Received my visa! Sending copies as we speek to the SRCA.


----------



## 2easy4u

*Dealing with SRCA*

Well folks it's a long sad story,especially for those that are going. I was one of the eleven first hired by Action Aviation. I am safe @ home now so I can speak without fear of retaliation by the Saudi Government. I would not advise anyone to work for SRCA without payment in full of your contract 1 year in advance deposited in your bank before you leave American soil. Contract should state that it cannot be changed without your signature origination from your home country. In other words they would have to send you home to sign off on any changes to your contract. Because once you are there, they tend to change things to their advantage on your contract in their country. That way you have no say in what the changes are. They are very pleased once you are in their country because they say when you are allowed to leave. They are extremely two faced in contractual deals dating from the eighties from the intel I have came across. In other words I would definitely want a lot of guarantees before going over. I would also require that my blood money be deposited into my bank for my family to access it should I be struck by lightning while inside a building. In other words my friends even though the recruiters are extremely nice and trustworthy,their government is not. Now the people that I met while I was there were very nice. I don't think that I heard one bad thing from the people. I am very impressed with how welcoming and courteous they are. However their government is only nice when you don't disagree with them. Do that and they quickly use their power to shut you up. This is why nobody in country will talk about how things really are. Just one more thing. Don't use your own money to buy or promote their service and expect to get it back. Because you won't get it back. I want to give fair warning to any and all the decide to go to Saudi Arabia to work in EMS. Don't do it!


----------



## NWParamedic

2easy4u said:


> Well folks it's a long sad story,especially for those that are going. I was one of the eleven first hired by Action Aviation. I am safe @ home now so I can speak without fear of retaliation by the Saudi Government. I would not advise anyone to work for SRCA without payment in full of your contract 1 year in advance deposited in your bank before you leave American soil. Contract should state that it cannot be changed without your signature origination from your home country. In other words they would have to send you home to sign off on any changes to your contract. Because once you are there, they tend to change things to their advantage on your contract in their country. That way you have no say in what the changes are. They are very pleased once you are in their country because they say when you are allowed to leave. They are extremely two faced in contractual deals dating from the eighties from the intel I have came across. In other words I would definitely want a lot of guarantees before going over. I would also require that my blood money be deposited into my bank for my family to access it should I be struck by lightning while inside a building. In other words my friends even though the recruiters are extremely nice and trustworthy,their government is not. Now the people that I met while I was there were very nice. I don't think that I heard one bad thing from the people. I am very impressed with how welcoming and courteous they are. However their government is only nice when you don't disagree with them. Do that and they quickly use their power to shut you up. This is why nobody in country will talk about how things really are. Just one more thing. Don't use your own money to buy or promote their service and expect to get it back. Because you won't get it back. I want to give fair warning to any and all the decide to go to Saudi Arabia to work in EMS. Don't do it!


I hear what your saying brother, loud and clear and I respect you for speaking your mind and warning the rest of us. As one of those of us that are preparing to go over there this gives me pause. And I am trying to make sense of all this information but... Many of the SRCA guys over there right now, privately off this forum do not share your concerns. I have heard some honest concerns but nothing as concerning is this. It does appear that you AA guys got a raw deal.

Could it be that because you were with AA and because that relationship, between the SRCA and AA, devolved is why you indirectly were poorly treated? 

Can you definitively say that you were directly treated poorly by the SRCA? Or is it that you were poorly treated by AA?

Therefore the rest of us should beware of the SRCA?

I ask these direct questions, because everything I have heard from you and others is that because the relationship with AA and the SRCA collapsed you guys got treated the way you did. In my mind this does not translate into a likely poor direct future relationship as a contractor with the SRCA.

Just asking. Since you can now speak freely, help us understand better that your experiences with AA are going to affect future relations with the SRCA.

I appreciate and thank you for communicating your concerns.


----------



## akflightmedic

NWParamedic said:


> Many of the SRCA guys over there right now, privately off this forum do not share your concerns.



FYI....There is no such thing as "private or offline" in the Kingdom. The internet, phones and any other type of comms are heavily monitored/censored.

This is a fact. Yes, even your private emails are scrutinized if they so desire. The religious police monitor it all.

I do hope this is/was strictly an AA thing...but wish you luck with the SCRA.


----------



## 2easy4u

*Good points. However*

While I was there one SRCA guys contract changed to not include an education allowance for his children. Another SRCA guy went on a recruiting trip to another country on his own money and was not repaid. Another had some delay in pay. The thing is you are sent all over town to jump yhrough their hoops and a lot of the time they don't tell you what you papers to bring to get stamped. Sometimes you have to get one stamp before you get the next one stamped. All of this as you are trying to navigate through a city of over 6 million and trying to accomplish the task between prayer time. They are not a lot of help when it comes to telling you what to take and how to accomplish what they want. As far as AA. I was always taken good care of by them. The SRCA was supposed to be paying the bill @ the Intercon Hotel but they didn't. Which resulted in the hotel threatening to not allow us any services like eating and what not. They pitched one guy out @ 0:200 AM. So you never knew when the knock on your door was to kick you out in the street. And you had to worry all day on your 12 hour shift if you had a place to stay or food to eat that night. The kicker to the hotel deal is the Saudi government owns the hotel. One department refused to pay the other and we were in the middle of a cat fight between Saudi families. Two of our guys were directly threatened and they drove out of the country and flew to a still undisclosed location. The SRCA sort of pays the SRCA guys, but they still have a airbus that was supposed to be part of the HEMS program that a French judge impounded for non payment. They have a history of not paying their bills especially if they are challenged in any way. Saving face is everything to the Saudi's. I won't place myself @ the mercy of some guy that never was disciplined when he was a child and has carried the two year old tantrum into his adult life. That's not all of it but a decent picture to look at.


----------



## goatlab

Here's the thing...the Saudi's want something for nothing. 
Examples -
1. AA was contracted to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. Because this was a new program and the aircraft would be landing on streets in the middle of town we were asked to provide training for the local police, ambulance crews, and hospital staff. Then the SRCA changes the rules and says they're not paying for any training the aircraft only operational missions. 
2. AA looked at the SRCA dispatching. There was nothing for air and what the SRCA did have...well......string and tin cans would have done better. AA brought in a Comm specialist and set up a dispatch center. Again, 4 months into the program and an SRCA regime the SRCA squawked at the extra staff and refused to pay their salary or hotel bills. 
3.  SRCA was contractually responsible for all the base(s) infrastructure; hangers, fuel, crew quarters, etc. To date the SRCA has only supplied 1 crew quarters. They're wanting to penalize AA for the lack of operations in Jeddah yet SRCA has failed to establish the infrastructure, there is no dispatching capabilities, nothing to support the aircraft. 

AA wanted this program to succeed and still does. That is exactly why they funded program for the past three months rather than let it die in January on the promise of payment later. 

So the advise is "careful who you trust in SRCA".


----------



## Armor10

So my plane leaves in three hours. I'll post as soon as I can and let everyone know I made it ok. It's supposed to rain when I get there with possible Thunder Storms. Wow, Rain in the desert, how often does that happen?? I can't wait to get over and meet everyone. Good luck everyone who is still in the process. If you have any questions. Shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can help you. See you soon Shultz.


----------



## alelkins

I just spoke with Al, he made it to D.C. safe and sound and was getting ready to board his flight to Riyadh.  Will keep everyone posted.  

Christy


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Goodluck Armor and Al! I hope to see you guys both soon, please keep in touch with us the best you can and have a safe journey.


----------



## alphatrauma

*...  what was it P.T. Barnum said?*

After everything that has come to light, I fail to understand why people are still heading over there.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

alphatrauma said:


> After everything that has come to light, I fail to understand why people are still heading over there.



To date that we are aware of no SRCA employee's have failed to been paid. The only 2 SRCA guys on this thread that have spoken have noting bad to say about the SRCA. I know this thread is monitored and the internet is also in KSA... but thats not stopping the AA guys with an axe to grind who are back in the U.S. and it would not stop the SRCA ground guys either, if they had a reason.....

It was the Action Aviation guys who got screwed according to them. I feel sorry for those guys and I am not sure who was at fault, but if the same thing happened to SRCA ground guys I am sure they would be pouring into this thread with an axe to grind just the same. Because they are not, I am still on board, worst case scenario it does not work out and I come home. I am willing to roll the dice, it sounds like a fun adventure and I look forward to working with Travis, Armor, and Al.


----------



## alphatrauma

schulz said:


> ...worst case scenario it does not work out and I come home.



I think the guys who reportedly slipped across the border, out of Saudi Arabia (current whereabouts unknown), probably thought the same thing. That's some scary ****. You have brass ones my friend, the best of luck to you!



2easy4u said:


> Two of our guys were directly threatened and they drove out of the country and flew to a still undisclosed location


----------



## HubblyBubbly

_To date that we are aware of no SRCA employee's have failed to been paid. The only 2 SRCA guys on this thread that have spoken have noting bad to say about the SRCA. I know this thread is monitored and the internet is also in KSA... but thats not stopping the AA guys with an axe to grind who are back in the U.S. and it would not stop the SRCA ground guys either, if they had a reason....._


Give it time and you will find out the facts my friend. I am an ex ground medic that did get screwed by the new regime in power. Collateral damage after the former Executive Officer got shafted? Most probably 

They did it to me...by email. No explanation, no reason, no face to face meeting, no phone call. 

I am not in a position to publicly put the facts on the table but a little research will tell you about Arab culture and the blame games they play rather than admitting guilt.   

To anyone contemplating employment be aware. To any SRCA employees reading good luck, I enjoyed working with you. There are many good guys but be careful of the few backstabbers that will screw you if you give them half a chance. 

And Travis.. two guys did leave last Thursday..I was one!


----------



## ExpatMedic0

well thank you for your input. I am glad everyone here is getting the facts. 
I am sorry to hear some of you had a bad experience with the SRCA. I am also    happy to hear about the positive things from people like Travis.  
I am not scared and I am going to go over there with a positive attitude and do my best. If I get screwed I promise I will let you guys know, I am sure Armor and Al will do the same. I am not here to defend any one side.
I love what I do and I want to travel, Ive been to war and have lived/experienced far worse conditions I am sure. 

I am highly great full for everyone who has been there so far to share there experiences with us, both positive and negative. Thank you all for the heads up and please wish me luck.



HubblyBubbly said:


> _To date that we are aware of no SRCA employee's have failed to been paid. The only 2 SRCA guys on this thread that have spoken have noting bad to say about the SRCA. I know this thread is monitored and the internet is also in KSA... but thats not stopping the AA guys with an axe to grind who are back in the U.S. and it would not stop the SRCA ground guys either, if they had a reason....._
> 
> 
> Give it time and you will find out the facts my friend. I am an ex ground medic that did get screwed by the new regime in power. Collateral damage after the former Executive Officer got shafted? Most probably
> 
> They did it to me...by email. No explanation, no reason, no face to face meeting, no phone call.
> 
> I am not in a position to publicly put the facts on the table but a little research will tell you about Arab culture and the blame games they play rather than admitting guilt.
> 
> To anyone contemplating employment be aware. To any SRCA employees reading good luck, I enjoyed working with you. There are many good guys but be careful of the few backstabbers that will screw you if you give them half a chance.
> 
> And Travis.. two guys did leave last Thursday..I was one!


----------



## celts

schulz said:


> well thank you for your input. I am glad everyone here is getting the facts.
> I am sorry to hear some of you had a bad experience with the SRCA. I am also    happy to hear about the positive things from people like Travis.
> I am not scared and I am going to go over there with a positive attitude and do my best. If I get screwed I promise I will let you guys know, I am sure Armor and Al will do the same. I am not here to defend any one side.
> I love what I do and I want to travel, Ive been to war and have lived/experienced far worse conditions I am sure.
> 
> I am highly great full for everyone who has been there so far to share there experiences with us, both positive and negative. Thank you all for the heads up and please wish me luck.



Schulz its probably best that if you or any of the guys do get screwed or your contract/conditions changed then do not post anything on here until you leave KSA.  All the best to you guys for having the courage.  I did and paid the price for no apparent reason.  A new regime is in place that seem to be highly hostile, lacking ethics and vindictive.  Especially if you were recruited prior to them coming into power!!!   Saudi politics can be ruthless and swift.


----------



## celts

goatlab said:


> Here's the thing...the Saudi's want something for nothing.
> Examples -
> 1. AA was contracted to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. Because this was a new program and the aircraft would be landing on streets in the middle of town we were asked to provide training for the local police, ambulance crews, and hospital staff. Then the SRCA changes the rules and says they're not paying for any training the aircraft only operational missions.
> 2. AA looked at the SRCA dispatching. There was nothing for air and what the SRCA did have...well......string and tin cans would have done better. AA brought in a Comm specialist and set up a dispatch center. Again, 4 months into the program and an SRCA regime the SRCA squawked at the extra staff and refused to pay their salary or hotel bills.
> 3.  SRCA was contractually responsible for all the base(s) infrastructure; hangers, fuel, crew quarters, etc. To date the SRCA has only supplied 1 crew quarters. They're wanting to penalize AA for the lack of operations in Jeddah yet SRCA has failed to establish the infrastructure, there is no dispatching capabilities, nothing to support the aircraft.
> 
> AA wanted this program to succeed and still does. That is exactly why they funded program for the past three months rather than let it die in January on the promise of payment later.
> 
> So the advise is "careful who you trust in SRCA".



100% agree with what you say goatlab
Lets not slag off Action Aviation too much.  They were not perfect but what I can say is this.  Action Aviation led the HEMS start up and had 1 airframe and base operating live for nearly 3 months.  The HEMS successfully transported a significant number of patients in this short time and did it 100% safely and without significant incident.

The pilots, mechanics dispatchers and medics on the whole were excellent.  The MD902 probably not the most perfect airframe for the job but is still an excellent EMS airframe for the urban environment of Riyadh.  There was a lot of discussion on the AA side about getting more suitable airframes with longer range and increased payload.

The AA side of the operation was cautious and safety was top priority.  An AA team was down in Jeddah and making huge progress towards getting a Jeddah operation up and running ASAP.

The graphics, artwork and public relations activity completed by Action Impact was excellent.  They were highly talented people however when the new SRCA regime entered they were tossed out the door overnight.  Such a shame after all that great work!

This was essentially the start of a cautious and safe HEMS operation and suddenly with the rug pulled right out from under it.  A significant achievement to say the least on behalf of this AA lead project.  

If the SRCA decide to get another operator in then they too may face the same difficult challenges.  I do hope they get a secure deposit from the SRCA held in a safe trust account in the USA equal to the value of every airframe they import into KSA just in case they also get there airframes impounded!!! Anything can happen in the "Magic Kingdom"


----------



## akflightmedic

celts said:


> Anything can happen in the "Magic Kingdom"



This is the most important piece of information you gave. I stress this time and time again on web boards and to newbies in the sense new to overseas work.

As Americans, the majority of us have a very distorted perception of what it is like to be working abroad. The safe bubble you know as employee and human rights do not exist. Anything can and will happen, including being jailed for some ridiculous charge and despite what you see on TV, no commando team is going to free you, no savvy consulate member is going to get you off the hook.

You do not have freedom of speech or expression. You are a "TCN" third country national and you are beneath them. You will be treated as such on occasion or often and there is not a thing you can do or say about it.

This is where the Ugly American stigma comes from and we deserve it rightly so. I have watched so many ignorant fools bring a US attitude to other countries and get pissed or upset when things do not happen as they would back home.

You can not get comfortable with that mindset. You must always be on guard and prepare to be humble and not allow the slightest bit of ego to creep in to your thought processes. It is their country.

I only say all of this because many think well if things go wrong I can sue, or I can do this, or they can't do that. Yes they can and no you can't. Short and sweet.


----------



## celts

akflightmedic said:


> This is the most important piece of information you gave. I stress this time and time again on web boards and to newbies in the sense new to overseas work.
> 
> As Americans, the majority of us have a very distorted perception of what it is like to be working abroad. The safe bubble you know as employee and human rights do not exist. Anything can and will happen, including being jailed for some ridiculous charge and despite what you see on TV, no commando team is going to free you, no savvy consulate member is going to get you off the hook.
> 
> You do not have freedom of speech or expression. You are a "TCN" third country national and you are beneath them. You will be treated as such on occasion or often and there is not a thing you can do or say about it.
> 
> This is where the Ugly American stigma comes from and we deserve it rightly so. I have watched so many ignorant fools bring a US attitude to other countries and get pissed or upset when things do not happen as they would back home.
> 
> You can not get comfortable with that mindset. You must always be on guard and prepare to be humble and not allow the slightest bit of ego to creep in to your thought processes. It is their country.
> 
> I only say all of this because many think well if things go wrong I can sue, or I can do this, or they can't do that. Yes they can and no you can't. Short and sweet.



100% akflighmedic


----------



## celts

akflightmedic said:


> This is the most important piece of information you gave. I stress this time and time again on web boards and to newbies in the sense new to overseas work.
> 
> As Americans, the majority of us have a very distorted perception of what it is like to be working abroad. The safe bubble you know as employee and human rights do not exist. Anything can and will happen, including being jailed for some ridiculous charge and despite what you see on TV, no commando team is going to free you, no savvy consulate member is going to get you off the hook.
> 
> You do not have freedom of speech or expression. You are a "TCN" third country national and you are beneath them. You will be treated as such on occasion or often and there is not a thing you can do or say about it.
> 
> This is where the Ugly American stigma comes from and we deserve it rightly so. I have watched so many ignorant fools bring a US attitude to other countries and get pissed or upset when things do not happen as they would back home.
> 
> You can not get comfortable with that mindset. You must always be on guard and prepare to be humble and not allow the slightest bit of ego to creep in to your thought processes. It is their country.
> 
> I only say all of this because many think well if things go wrong I can sue, or I can do this, or they can't do that. Yes they can and no you can't. Short and sweet.



100% akflightmedic


----------



## calimedic

*Saudi Red Crescent*

I spent eight years in Saudi, including 12 long months with the SRC. I have held back my comments because I was hoping that things have changed and everything would work out for you guys. 

When I was there SRCA had a HEMS in Jeddah, I advised them in regards to training and safety. they did not want to take the time and money to fly a safe service. The heli crashed and killed everyone onboard.

I feel Travis is living in a fantasy world where Saudi is a great place, the people are kind and nothing bad can happen.I think three short months in Saudi makes him no authority on Saudi.   Travis bad things do happen to good people over there. You must realize you have NO RIGHTS.. Your embassy ,even the US embassy cares more about keeping the oil flowing to the USA  then about you. Ask Sandy Mitchell. A friend of mine who spent 2 1/2 years in a Saudi prison and was sentenced to death on false charges. Later he was freed for exchange of 5 saudi gitmo prisoners.

I also have friends that worked for Action. Action set up the HEMS program in Qatar, and were first class all the way. They ran a very safe service. I also know a few medics who are on the ground in Riyadh now. So if you want me to take sides I know who is to blame.

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed my time in Saudi.. You just need to walk in with your eyes open.


----------



## NWParamedic

calimedic said:


> I spent eight years in Saudi, including 12 long months with the SRC. I have held back my comments because I was hoping that things have changed and everything would work out for you guys.
> 
> When I was there SRCA had a HEMS in Jeddah, I advised them in regards to training and safety. they did not want to take the time and money to fly a safe service. The heli crashed and killed everyone onboard.
> 
> I feel Travis is living in a fantasy world where Saudi is a great place, the people are kind and nothing bad can happen.I think three short months in Saudi makes him no authority on Saudi.   Travis bad things do happen to good people over there. You must realize you have NO RIGHTS.. Your embassy ,even the US embassy cares more about keeping the oil flowing to the USA  then about you. Ask Sandy Mitchell. A friend of mine who spent 2 1/2 years in a Saudi prison and was sentenced to death on false charges. Later he was freed for exchange of 5 saudi gitmo prisoners.
> 
> I also have friends that worked for Action. Action set up the HEMS program in Qatar, and were first class all the way. They ran a very safe service. I also know a few medics who are on the ground in Riyadh now. So if you want me to take sides I know who is to blame.
> 
> Dont get me wrong I enjoyed my time in Saudi.. You just need to walk in with your eyes open.


Calimedic,

Thank you for your post. How would you advise those such as myself to "walk in with your eyes open".

Because believe me that I am gathering as much info as I can from where I sit here in Oregon. I have read this blog twice now i think, talked with many on the ground over there right now and read other blogs with people living in Riyadh. 

What specifically would you tell us that we should do to best inform ourselves?

It sounds to me like there is only so much you can learn and understand and then you just have to say that you are going to accept the risks. 

So if you would give us your specific advise/practical things that should be done prior to accepting a position over there. 

Respectfully,


----------



## HubblyBubbly

NWParamedic said:


> Calimedic,
> 
> Thank you for your post. How would you advise those such as myself to "walk in with your eyes open".
> 
> Because believe me that I am gathering as much info as I can from where I sit here in Oregon. I have read this blog twice now i think, talked with many on the ground over there right now and read other blogs with people living in Riyadh.
> 
> 
> 
> So if you would give us your specific advise/practical things that should be done prior to accepting a position over there.
> 
> Respectfully,



Living in Saudi is not bad. There are many good people around. 

The problem for most expats doing work or business is adapting to the Saudi way of doing things. The Saudi way is not as upfront and transparent as in many countries. This is where a contract that for us means a legal document means nothing to them. Broken promises, corruption, bribes, failure to follow through, lies etc etc become a way of life.  

The SRCA has not been perfect however overnight the change in upper management screwed everything up. 

If you work in the field do your job then you should be ok. Do not get involved in the politics and management side of things. Let them play the games. 

As I have said beware of the friendly expats that have been there a while and whose heads are so far up the rears of certain Saudis. They will be spat out eventually when the Saudis have new friends to impress and play with. 

Many ground Medics in my two plus years there missed salary payments and other entitlements. Just ask the large group of Sth African EMTs who have been treated poorly, denied exit visas even emergency visas so kept in a country they cannot exit against their will. 

As for new operator going in to run HEMS good luck.The Saudis want control of the operation and are not happy with expats telling them what to do, even though they have asked for the help. FFS you need a specialist in EMS to run EMS not a bloody obstetrician for example.

My advice have a get out plan and do not be afraid to leave at the drop of a hat when you do get screwed. Just dont tell the saudis and certain expats before you go. You may ask why the secrecy etc? Why its for your own safety as it doesnt take much to have you land in the klink because some Saudi has made a false accusation against you.


----------



## calimedic

*Red Crescent*

Hubbly I think you must of spent some time in Saudi. You are so right. A contract means nothing to a Saudi. Also non payment or late payment is common. It has happened to me. I knew Dr. Al-Byoot (Forgive the spelling) who was running the show for the Red Crescent. He was an American trained ER Doc and a good guy. So I thought things would be different for you guys. They have since fired him, thats when things started to go wrong.

Once you get to Saudi you cannot change jobs. You must leave the country for two years before you can return. I to had some great times in Saudi. But I know what the Saudis are like. They very much want you to think the best of them. But if you get on their wrong side their true nature comes out. I was in Saudi in 9/11 when they cheered as the world trade centers fell.

When I was there I was treated well to my face, when I wanted to leave I was a filthy dog and the Saudi's I thought were my friends turned on me. 

The most important thing is your housing. It will make all the difference in you quality of life. They should have your housing set up before you get there. See pictures e-mail people who live there. I was there when they did the compound bombings. It is not smart to advertise where Americans live.
(Travis)

If you think there are no terrorist in Saudi your wrong, caution is very important. It is musch safer now, still they arrested 113 terrorist just recently.

I hate giving advice because this is an important choice your making. I will just tell you what I would do.

Contact Medhunters in Canada. Ask if they have any jobs at the National Guard hospital in Riyadh. The King runs the National guard. they have nice housing, great social life. You see tons of trauma in the ER, and you might get to work on the Kings medical team as well. Check Aramco also.

Next, check out Hamad EMS in Qatar. They run the EMS service for Qatar and they have a HEMS service. They are hiring paramedics now. Qatar is a very safe country and more open (They sell beer)

If you choose to go to Red Crescent. I wish you guys all they luck. Expect lots of frustrations. They are a Saudi run organization and really dont know how to help western expats. They are used to hiring staff from other Arab countries. Hand them a salary and they fend for themselves. You cant treat a western expat that way. Who does not know the language, culture and system.

Good luck guys, I honestly have tried to give my best advice. I dont claim to know everything. Im just an old dog who has spent many years in the Middle East.


----------



## celts

WTEngel said:


> I only speak for my experiences with the SRCA. I had heard of the education allowance being changed, but I have no children, and the problem does not involve me, therefore I can not speak to the circumstances surrounding it. That would be good advice for others to follow.
> 
> NJ you are leveling a lot of accusations and I am certain you do not know the entire story. I can positively say that you do not know the entire story because:
> 
> a) you have not been in country,
> b) the information you are getting is fragmented, and
> c) nobody over here except for a very few high level personnel actually will ever know the full story of what happened, as this situation has been brewing for a very long time, and is more complicated than I ever care to know.
> 
> All of the things I am saying in defense of SRCA are based on my experiences, having been in this country for 3 months. I only speak to my experiences, which have been positive. There have been a few other medics relating their positive experiences with SRCA. The only people relating negative experiences are former employees of Action Aviation, looking for someone to blame for their current hardship, which is unfortunate.
> 
> As for the SRCA employee who left, I can honestly say that nobody (ground staff, flight staff, SRCA management, and Action Aviation management) was sad to see him go, and the general consensus among everyone was that we are better off without his type around.
> 
> I will tell everyone here, that if I had concerns about the current state of things, I would post them. I have been a supporter of SRCA, and I would hate to see people coming here and becoming unhappy or get into a financial bind based on my advice. If I begin to think differently I will tell you guys, until then, I will continue to support the SRCA.




Hey Travis.  I hear your good buddy you mentioned here is winging his way back to Riyadh from DC as this email is written.  And I hear he read this post.  He might want to talk to you about what you wrote!!!


----------



## BHale

*Message received*

Travis,
 Will see you on saturday back in riyadh. Maybe your right about what you said. But I don't really care and you and I will have talk. Plan on it!! And it's not going to be just the sit down and drink coffee type either!


----------



## akflightmedic

BHale said:


> Travis,
> Will see you on saturday back in riyadh. Maybe your right about what you said. But I don't really care and you and I will have talk. Plan on it!! And it's not going to be just the sit down and drink coffee type either!



Hey is this Brian Hale???  :0


----------



## BHale

Yes


----------



## akflightmedic

Camp Phoenix, AFG


----------



## BHale

Right on brother....Keep you head down


----------



## love my medic

BHale said:


> Travis,
> Will see you on saturday back in riyadh. Maybe your right about what you said. But I don't really care and you and I will have talk. Plan on it!! And it's not going to be just the sit down and drink coffee type either!



I'm beginning to think we are dealing with alot of kindergarden adults on this thread.  

Grow up and suck it up.  Bad things happen to good people, it's not fair, but learn from it and move on.  Why do you have to attack others?


----------



## celts

love my medic said:


> I'm beginning to think we are dealing with alot of kindergarden adults on this thread.
> 
> Grow up and suck it up.  Bad things happen to good people, it's not fair, but learn from it and move on.  Why do you have to attack others?



Well bugger off and read another thread then!!!


----------



## BHale

You are so right....I have seen the light. Thank you for insight and knowledge. Hell....You would be a great High School teacher


----------



## lowrider_62

calimedic said:


> Hubbly I think you must of spent some time in Saudi. You are so right. A contract means nothing to a Saudi. Also non payment or late payment is common. It has happened to me. I knew Dr. Al-Byoot (Forgive the spelling) who was running the show for the Red Crescent. He was an American trained ER Doc and a good guy. So I thought things would be different for you guys. They have since fired him, thats when things started to go wrong.
> 
> Once you get to Saudi you cannot change jobs. You must leave the country for two years before you can return. I to had some great times in Saudi. But I know what the Saudis are like. They very much want you to think the best of them. But if you get on their wrong side their true nature comes out. I was in Saudi in 9/11 when they cheered as the world trade centers fell.
> 
> When I was there I was treated well to my face, when I wanted to leave I was a filthy dog and the Saudi's I thought were my friends turned on me.
> 
> The most important thing is your housing. It will make all the difference in you quality of life. They should have your housing set up before you get there. See pictures e-mail people who live there. I was there when they did the compound bombings. It is not smart to advertise where Americans live.
> (Travis)
> 
> If you think there are no terrorist in Saudi your wrong, caution is very important. It is musch safer now, still they arrested 113 terrorist just recently.
> 
> I hate giving advice because this is an important choice your making. I will just tell you what I would do.
> 
> Contact Medhunters in Canada. Ask if they have any jobs at the National Guard hospital in Riyadh. The King runs the National guard. they have nice housing, great social life. You see tons of trauma in the ER, and you might get to work on the Kings medical team as well. Check Aramco also.
> 
> *Next, check out Hamad EMS in Qatar.* They run the EMS service for Qatar and they have a HEMS service. They are hiring paramedics now. Qatar is a very safe country and more open (They sell beer)
> 
> If you choose to go to Red Crescent. I wish you guys all they luck. Expect lots of frustrations. They are a Saudi run organization and really dont know how to help western expats. They are used to hiring staff from other Arab countries. Hand them a salary and they fend for themselves. You cant treat a western expat that way. Who does not know the language, culture and system.
> 
> Good luck guys, I honestly have tried to give my best advice. I dont claim to know everything. Im just an old dog who has spent many years in the Middle East.



What is the website for Hamad EMS?  I've tried Googling it with no luck.


----------



## Tincanfireman

http://www.hmc.org.qa/hmcnewsite/


----------



## medic4ever

*SARC, stay away*

I worked in the KSA for over 16 years.  During that time I did several stints with the SARC.  Each and every time I left pulling my hair out.  Why the glutton for punishment?  The SARC is the only EMS show in town.  Every time I was told 'things changed'.  What a joke that was.  Since it's inception the SARC has been strife with mismanagement and corruption.  The amount of money that has been poured into this dead horse would make your head spin off your shoulders.  For example, AEDs were introduced, but due to ineptness (putting the pads on every patient encountered) they are now rotting in a closet.  Same for pulse oximeters and glucometers.  Drivers with no medical training decide whether a patient is transported to the hospital.  Adult cardiac arrest patients being ventilated with pediatric BVM's.  You have managers whose only qualification is being Saudi. Indian medical students were coerced into working on the ambulances, and most went on 'vacation' and never returned.  The EMS system is so pathetic that most Saudis think the emergency number for the ambulance is 911 (it's actually 997).  Maybe in about 100 years they will be at level the US was 50 years ago.  My advise, stay away from the SARC.  Sure the money sounds great, but the reality is not worth it.  If you are really set on working in KSA, try a job with KAAMC or KFSH.  They are large well respected and stable hospitals.


----------



## Armor10

Hey guy's, I'm just posting that I made it. I have been here for almost two days now. I'm living on the compound, my room is nice. It's just starting to get warm here. We went into the office today and I have my medical scheduled for tomorrow. Everyone has been great. If anyone has any questions on the process, or I can help anyone let me know. Oh yes when you get here and have  a chance, try a Shawarmer they rock.


----------



## NWParamedic

Armor10 said:


> Hey guy's, I'm just posting that I made it. I have been here for almost two days now. I'm living on the compound, my room is nice. It's just starting to get warm here. We went into the office today and I have my medical scheduled for tomorrow. Everyone has been great. If anyone has any questions on the process, or I can help anyone let me know. Oh yes when you get here and have  a chance, try a Shawarmer they rock.


Armor,

It would be helpful if you could post all the things step by step that you are required to have/do when a guy gets there. Maybe some suggestions as to how us future guys can best be organized/prepared so that we can hit the ground prepared.


----------



## BHale

love my medic said:


> I'm beginning to think we are dealing with alot of kindergarden adults on this thread.
> 
> Grow up and suck it up.  Bad things happen to good people, it's not fair, but learn from it and move on.  Why do you have to attack others?



Travis...Water under the bridge...I didn't know your dad was sick. I am sorry and I hope he feels better. As far as my comment is concerned...forget about it, not the right words at the right time. 

Lovemymedic: You would be a great replacement for Oprah


----------



## medic75

*Congratulations !!!!*



Armor10 said:


> Hey guy's, I'm just posting that I made it. I have been here for almost two days now. I'm living on the compound, my room is nice. It's just starting to get warm here. We went into the office today and I have my medical scheduled for tomorrow. Everyone has been great. If anyone has any questions on the process, or I can help anyone let me know. Oh yes when you get here and have  a chance, try a Shawarmer they rock.



Dear Armor10,

Congratulations for your accomplishment & all the bast for your future.
1 quik question, is SRCA recruiting critical care paramedics.

Regards


----------



## once

*SRCA and Action Aviation*

It goes a little further than what has been said on here so far. Here is a taste. 
I deny any knowledge of this.
There was active sabotage by SRCA and AA reportedly refused to pay a bribe sought by a certain body outside the SRCA. As the program was funded by the King..imagine the ramifications. AA had to do the professional Paramedic recruiting as the salary offered by SRCA was a disgrace


----------



## goatlab

*I heard.....*



once said:


> It goes a little further than what has been said on here so far. Here is a taste.
> I deny any knowledge of this.
> There was active sabotage by SRCA and AA reportedly refused to pay a bribe sought by a certain body outside the SRCA. As the program was funded by the King..imagine the ramifications. AA had to do the professional Paramedic recruiting as the salary offered by SRCA was a disgrace



I heard the figure was 5 million. 

Did you know?  The SRCA SOP (self operating program) was suppose to operate outside SRCA politics and corruption, and was staffed with personnel with integrity. Guess that all changed with the new management.


----------



## once

*SRCA and Action Aviation*

The bribe I'm aware of was 1 million to the Prince overlooking the whole program, he is a drug addict. Wouldn't be surprised if there were others. There is a lot of dodging going on to keep information getting to the King. Essentially, the sabotage is against the King's program as he very much wants it.... and the bribe is against the King himself as it is ultimately his money. No wonder there is active protection of information from him. AA had an up-hill battle no matter who was involved in the SRCA etc, it has been proven that the Saudi's pay no attention to contracts once people are n the country, they generalising (there are exceptions of course)..have no honour, no business acumen. The program to be successful and set up for the purpose the King desired... to provide a professional world class helicopter para service to his people needs to be run independently from anything to do with SRCA. SRCA do not have the skill level, experience or business sense to  anything other than a simple road first aid unit. To the professional paras working for them, best of luck wish you well. A heli para service with it's associated dangers can not skimp on safety in the slightest, must have highly experienced pilots, not a relative of some body with 5 minutes experience, must have highly tertiary educated and experienced  paras. The Saudis  have already demonstrated that when they try.. they crashed and killed the whole crew. They are only going to get high level of experience and professionalism by going outside (as the King did, he is a wise man) and paying appropriate salaries. SRCA just is not up to the task of this level of negotiation, they essentially are only a low level public service entity  only thinking about their own pocket rather than the bigger picture of the service to the Saudi people wanted by the King. The truth will get out, information has a way of filtering through, they can't isolate info from the King for ever, he will at some point, if not already, wonder why his helicopters etc aren't dong what they were supposed to. The Saudis may lack honour and trust, but they are not stupid.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

once said:


> heli para service with it's associated dangers can not skimp on safety in the slightest, must have highly experienced pilots, not a relative of some body with 5 minutes experience, must have highly tertiary educated and experienced  paras. The Saudis  have already demonstrated that when they try.. they crashed and killed the whole crew.



Are you by any chance referring to the likes of Captain/Doctor/Playboy Fantastic????????:unsure:




> The truth will get out, information has a way of filtering through, they can't isolate info from the King for ever, he will at some point, if not already, wonder why his helicopters etc aren't dong what they were supposed to. The Saudis may lack honour and trust, but they are not stupid.



After such fanfare and promotion of the Saudi Air Ambulance Service( note not SRCA Air Ambulance) the community will be wondering WTF happened to those helicopters that were going to save lives. It will be get back to Malik Abduhllah ....insh'alla. 


The figures quoted for the pocket lining..is that SAR or $$$ ?


----------



## HubblyBubbly

goatlab said:


> Did you know?  The SRCA SOP (self operating program) was suppose to operate outside SRCA politics and corruption, and was staffed with personnel with integrity. Guess that all changed with the new management.




Fact

This was exactly the plan of the man that set it up. The mininions that felt threatened as they were incompetent to be a part of the SOP, teamed up and had him booted out. Then proceeded to do the same to all associated with him.


----------



## Tincanfireman

From the April 2010 issue of EMS Magazine:  Paramedic Patrick Tom Notestine, who spent 10 years working as a contract paramedic in Saudi Arabia before writing "Paramedic to the Prince", recently learned his book has been banned in Saudi Arabia.  Read a review here.


----------



## alphatrauma

Haven't heard from Travis in a while... wonder if he can put a positive spin on any of this?


----------



## akflightmedic

alphatrauma said:


> Haven't heard from Travis in a while... wonder if he can put a positive spin on any of this?



When you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.


----------



## 997

Look guys things here are no different than any where else in the world when change in command happens. None of us will totally agree with all the points that are made. Communication is always a problem when we dont understand. There is a lot of communication gaps at the present time but everyone is trying to work through it. 
  For those of you who dont know Travis has had to take emergency leave and go home to be with his Father who is very sick at the present time. He will return but that is why you dont have comments from him presently.


----------



## Flight-LP

akflightmedic said:


> When you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.



Touche.


----------



## alphatrauma

997 said:


> Look guys things here are no different than any where else in the world when change in command happens.



Complete and utter rubbish... I stopped drinking Kool-Aid after grade school.


----------



## helimedic39

I still drink kool -aid (red) hmmmmm hmmmmm good! but it's still rubberish as all heck! you must be out of your mind to say it's like any other country when there is a change of command. Open your eyes and see what the real world looks like


----------



## NWParamedic

*Be a professional*

I consider most of you on this forum professionals, as a member of this forum I would like to sincerely ask that you all act like one.

Thank you.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

There is nothing wrong with change, whether it is change in management or in policy especially if will improve service provision. Unfortunately the change that took place in the SRCA was a result of personal vandettas against certain people and entities by a group within the SRCA. Ruthless sceeming behind the scenes by some little men with big egos to take control.

The evidence is there however in Saudi there is no outside body to investigate and look into allegations. If you make an allegation you end up detained or thrown out of the Kingdom. They restrict you seeing anyone who may assist as you may tell the truth and out the corrupt ways. They make allegations to discredit you so you look bad to the Saudis that work hard. 

As an exaptriate your best move is to get out. They dont want change, they dont want to improve because that means incompetent managers will be forcing themselves out of a job. For the time being they are protected.

The change was not for the good of the service, people in the community and employees doing the hard work.


----------



## helimedic39

We are all professionals here. Hubbly thank you. But i'm gonna speak my mind because i have that right. I won't degrade anyone or use profanity. Just speaking the truth. It seems some may still be blind to what actually happened out there. We are trying to spread the word. That's it. Looking out for others. Because that's what we do in this profession. It seems most think AA is to blame here. And i'm not saying this is partially true, but speak with everyone that has work in KSA. They all say the same thing.


----------



## 997

This is true, I thought that a simple statement would make people understand what everyone is going through here. However, certain people still have stir things up that have not even been here. The ones that have been here for sometime and  left I understand their points and respect them. Bryan has a great point here try to be professional.


----------



## helimedic39

997 who are you? Clearly you are there. Are you on the ground?


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Guys we are being professional cause thats what we are. If only you knew the dirt that could be unleashed and have some over there packing their bags asap.:excl: 

The dirt hasn't come out due to us being professional. 

Providing information and the facts on what has and goes on in the SRCA is only for the benefit of guys left behind so they do not suffer the same fate


----------



## alelkins

Cheers to all!


----------



## Jon

Guys - I see this thread going in a direction that worries me. A few comments from an admin:

-This is our currently "biggest" and most active thread, with about 775 posts so far.
-Our forums are highly indexed by Google - and this thread shows up really high when one does Google searches for SRCA EMS. -We've seen lots of new members because of this thread. That's great. We've also seen a few members create alternate user ID's to post comments. That CANNOT continue. It is a violation of our site rules, and any further instances will result in at LEAST a 30 day ban - we will not ignore this again.

Long story short - be careful what you post - I'm SURE that folks within SRCA are watching this thread. Be careful what you post. Many of you that are involved with the goings-on over there know each other - calling each other out and the trash talking that has happened on here can't keep going on.

Carry on!

Jon


----------



## pFox

*The Reality of Saudi*

Hi

I've followed this thread with great interest for quite a while. I felt compelled to write and support the comments made by some of the medics who have worked there. They have a very realistic experince of what it is really like to work for Saudi organisations. 

Myself, I did 4 contracts there and worked and lived in Saudi for 6 1/2 years. I'm not a Paramedic, I'm an ICU RN, but had plenty of medic mates there at the various hospitals I worked at. In Riyadh I worked at KFSHRC, PSCC, KAMC (King Fahad for old timers). In Dammam it was Adulrahman NGH.

I've been there alone, with my wife (a paeds transport ICU nurse), and with my young boy. I think I have a very good handle on the realities of what it's like to live and work in Saudi Arabia.

I think that what those medics are trying to do is blow away the glossy every things peachy crap, and put out the reality of what can and does indeed happen over there. I think you guys did a damned good job of it too. It needed to be said loud and clear.

It's not just the SRCA who pulls this kind of stuff either. The big hospitals do it all the time as well. You find a lot of your contractual conditons and benefits erroded away or blatantly changed and there ain't squat you can do about it.

Saudi's are never wrong , it's always always somebody else. They are never the incompetant one. Every Saudi I've ever known wants to be the boss. Doesn't matter if their incharge of locks and keys. When you go to their office your in their fifdom and you have to play the game if you want to get anywhere.

Saudi's love to wind you up, it's hysterical to them to see you pissed off. There are some great ones though but if something happens or goes wrong, they will always take the word of a muslim over a westerner.

Alot of stuff that goes on has been pointed out already, other things, 
if you like the ETOH, you can have plenty at Embassy Nights. Just don't get caught pissed coming home. Your on home turf in the embassy, but once out the door your in Saudi.

Some people forget that, particularly girls, and you can just see the saudi police watching. If your cool they tend to leave you be,  but piss them off...

Believe it or not some Mutawaa are okay. Mutawaa actually means religious person. It's the degenerates that haven't got a life that become the religious police. When your in Saudi you'll find Matawaa everywhere and not even know it. Although the long beards are a bit of a give away, in suits and ties thought, or SRCA uniforms.....

Shamals, jesus you wouldn't believe where all that dust can get to. Lightning storms so spectacular to see with rain in the middle of the desert. Dangereous as all hell to be out driving in it thought.

Sharwarmahs, love em, but the grease and the chance of salmonella from the mayo. Don't get the mayo.

Watch out for Sid he can cause blindness if it's not pure. ha ha

If your in Riyadh go over to Dammam and Jeddah, there much more laid back (well as laid back as you can be in Saudi) and fun compared to anal Riyadh.

The young nutcases on bikes and quad bikes doing wheelies up and down Olaya steet.

Good luck to you guys already over there, I hope your experiences are great and you don't get screwed. People contemplating, think long and carefully.
It's already been said that hospital paramedic jobs are okay. The guys I know where okay with it, it got boring at times. They missed not going out on the street on runs. Most of the time it was assisting in ER, and going on codes in the hospital.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

pFox said:


> Hi
> 
> I've followed this thread with great interest for quite a while. I felt compelled to write and support the comments made by some of the medics who have worked there. They have a very realistic experince of what it is really like to work for Saudi organisations.
> 
> 
> It's not just the SRCA who pulls this kind of stuff either. The big hospitals do it all the time as well. You find a lot of your contractual conditons and benefits erroded away or blatantly changed and there ain't squat you can do about it.
> 
> Saudi's are never wrong , it's always always somebody else. They are never the incompetant one. Every Saudi I've ever known wants to be the boss. Doesn't matter if their incharge of locks and keys. When you go to their office your in their fifdom and you have to play the game if you want to get anywhere.
> 
> Saudi's love to wind you up, it's hysterical to them to see you pissed off. There are some great ones though but if something happens or goes wrong, they will always take the word of a muslim over a westerner..




Well said pFox

Saudis are never wrong that is so true. Incharge of lock and keys..ask the ground guys how many times they changed the lock of the Paramedic Supervisors office... to keep out the foreign Paramedic Supervisors. The greatest comedy could be based on it.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Jon said:


> Guys - I see this thread going in a direction that worries me. A few comments from an admin:
> 
> 
> Long story short - be careful what you post - I'm SURE that folks within SRCA are watching this thread.
> Carry on!
> 
> Jon




And if the SRCA are watching hopefully they will learn something.


----------



## MMiz

I've re-opened this thread and would like to remind members that not only do they need to obey our rules, but they need to be aware that they are solely responsible for the content of their posts.  What you post on EMTLife will be available for the internet to see for many years to come.


----------



## goatlab

MMiz said:


> I've re-opened this thread and would like to remind members that not only do they need to obey our rules, but they need to be aware that they are solely responsible for the content of their posts.  What you post on EMTLife will be available for the internet to see for many years to come.



MMiz,

I understand the rules and needing to be professional. This site has provided great information for everyone. Wondering, rather than lock the site because of a few not following the rules can you lock those few out?


----------



## alelkins

*Srca*

Update:

Have been on the ground here one week. All in all, things are good. Wasn't met at the airport as promised, but got in touch with a friend and got picked-up, delivered to compound, then taken out for dinner.

First of the week (Saturday here), checked in with the office and was greeted with warm smiles and genuine hospitality; very friendly folk. Next we went for physicals (a whole other story). By yesterday, I had received a cash loan for expenses and been moved downtown to a decent hotel (ah, room service, maid service, and walking to lots of places).

The flight service appears to be up again. We have one 902 staffed and should be ready for missions tomorrow after engineering clearance and test flight. Yippie!

The downside:

Word today is that upper management/leadership of the SRCA has decided NOT to pay the relocation bonuses as listed on their website and written in my job offer. This is discouraging for all ex-pats here, and I believe at least one has decided to return stateside. It's not so much the money as it is the trust factor. Again, this unofficial. I have not been told this personally by SRCA management. 

Everything else seems to be as represented, so far. Notes to those coming:
1. Don't count on the relocation bonus
2. Bring phone numbers for local contacts and a cell phone.
3. Go through the customs line on the right side with the returning Saudi's,        not the "First Time" line on the left.
4. Be ready to see the most awesome trauma of your careers.
5. Be ready for amazing hospitality, fantastic food, and the time of your life!

Cheers!


----------



## NWParamedic

alelkins said:


> Update:
> 
> Have been on the ground here one week. All in all, things are good. Wasn't met at the airport as promised, but got in touch with a friend and got picked-up, delivered to compound, then taken out for dinner.
> 
> First of the week (Saturday here), checked in with the office and was greeted with warm smiles and genuine hospitality; very friendly folk. Next we went for physicals (a whole other story). By yesterday, I had received a cash loan for expenses and been moved downtown to a decent hotel (ah, room service, maid service, and walking to lots of places).
> 
> The flight service appears to be up again. We have one 902 staffed and should be ready for missions tomorrow after engineering clearance and test flight. Yippie!
> 
> The downside:
> 
> Word today is that upper management/leadership of the SRCA has decided NOT to pay the relocation bonuses as listed on their website and written in my job offer. This is discouraging for all ex-pats here, and I believe at least one has decided to return stateside. It's not so much the money as it is the trust factor. Again, this unofficial. I have not been told this personally by SRCA management.
> 
> Everything else seems to be as represented, so far. Notes to those coming:
> 1. Don't count on the relocation bonus
> 2. Bring phone numbers for local contacts and a cell phone.
> 3. Go through the customs line on the right side with the returning Saudi's,        not the "First Time" line on the left.
> 4. Be ready to see the most awesome trauma of your careers.
> 5. Be ready for amazing hospitality, fantastic food, and the time of your life!
> 
> Cheers!


Thanks Al,

That was a perfect report. Keep those reports of your first few months over there coming. This info is really helpful for us preparing to come over. Ask Aaron to post his first two weeks over there also.


----------



## goatlab

*Ready to fly mission tomorrow?*



alelkins said:


> Update:
> 
> Have been on the ground here one week. All in all, things are good. Wasn't met at the airport as promised, but got in touch with a friend and got picked-up, delivered to compound, then taken out for dinner.
> 
> First of the week (Saturday here), checked in with the office and was greeted with warm smiles and genuine hospitality; very friendly folk. Next we went for physicals (a whole other story). By yesterday, I had received a cash loan for expenses and been moved downtown to a decent hotel (ah, room service, maid service, and walking to lots of places).
> 
> The flight service appears to be up again. We have one 902 staffed and should be ready for missions tomorrow after engineering clearance and test flight. Yippie!
> 
> The downside:
> 
> Word today is that upper management/leadership of the SRCA has decided NOT to pay the relocation bonuses as listed on their website and written in my job offer. This is discouraging for all ex-pats here, and I believe at least one has decided to return stateside. It's not so much the money as it is the trust factor. Again, this unofficial. I have not been told this personally by SRCA management.
> 
> Everything else seems to be as represented, so far. Notes to those coming:
> 1. Don't count on the relocation bonus
> 2. Bring phone numbers for local contacts and a cell phone.
> 3. Go through the customs line on the right side with the returning Saudi's,        not the "First Time" line on the left.
> 4. Be ready to see the most awesome trauma of your careers.
> 5. Be ready for amazing hospitality, fantastic food, and the time of your life!
> 
> Cheers!



Welcome to Saudi,
I'm curious to where you heard they'll start flying mission tomorrow. I hope the AA isn't considering letting the one engineer the SRCA hired, whom isn't qualified on the 902, clear the aircraft for flight. The aircraft has been sitting in the elements for 3 weeks and needs a lot of TLC. That would be stupid!!!!


----------



## calimedic

*Paramedic to the Prince*



Tincanfireman said:


> From the April 2010 issue of EMS Magazine:  Paramedic Patrick Tom Notestine, who spent 10 years working as a contract paramedic in Saudi Arabia before writing "Paramedic to the Prince", recently learned his book has been banned in Saudi Arabia.  Read a review here.



The SRCS is famous for starting things, getting lots of press then later it all falls apart. After all the positive press for the air medical program, has there been anything in the press about it all being shut down. My guess is no.

That is the saudi way. I started a Paramedic program for SRCS in Jeddah about 7 years ago, we gots lots of press, I recieved promises of funding and staff, after struggling for 12 months getting paid late every month. No staff at all. One man cannot teach a paramedic program. The students could not grasp the knowledge it takes to be a medic, Major cheating went on and I was not allowed to fail anyone. I advised on the air medical program. every recommendation I made was ignored. We all know what happened to the crew.

Oh yes thanks for plugging my book. I dont mention it on this site since this is not the place to plug my book.  I know the SRCS is full of frustrations. I know you can still have a good experience. and yes tons and tons of trauma. Oh yes attached is a picture of a recent saudi paramedic doing his final practical. Yes he passed and he is on the street now.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Very good post Calimedic. What you say is so true. We have walked the same footsteps and the result has been the same. As I have said they want the prestige and photo op but do not want to listen to the answers we give when asked a question.

As  for the photo Yes these guys pay and get through. To those that have not worked in KSA, the picture depicts a student from a private emergency medical institute that do practical training with the SRCA. Many of the current workforce are graduates. Some 3% are switched on and would make it anywhere. The rest well young rich kids with a family name that opens doors.

About a month ago those *students* were employed by the SRCA to work and drive the ALS Paramedics. They have not graduated, they have no experience driving or treating, however are partnering an expat and believe it or not have the attitude to tell the Paramedic what to do( when they can)! Great idea of the new Chief Executive and Riyadh Operations Manager :wacko:. 

With this calibre of Managers in control the SRCA will move forward ....inshalla 

Maybe they will do the same with the HEMS program and hire some student or new graduate to fly the aircraft:unsure:


----------



## 2easy4u

*Saudi HEMS Program*

I was there.
If they don't follow AA's recommendations for safety and medical crew the next thing you will here about the program will be the helo has crashed and killed every one,and possibly a few innocent bystanders. I kid you not!. HEMS is dangerous by it's nature. When you put some one in charge that behaves like a two year old your asking for a disaster. Just like the last time they tried it. Any western medics thinking about doing this. DON'T. Let them learn the hard lessons with Saudi lives being snuffed out not yours. It will be your last job with the living. You have been WARNED.


----------



## medic4ever

*sad but true*



calimedic said:


> Oh yes attached is a picture of a recent saudi paramedic doing his final practical. Yes he passed and he is on the street now.



Great picture!  I remember doing 'final' testing for Saudi 'paramedic' students and having at least one of them use a NPA as a ETT and some used a wooden tongue blade as a laryngoscope.  That was a shock.  They also gave 15 LPM NC and 2 LPM NRB constantly.  I also remember the Saudis balking at having students go to class at all.  They wanted them to just follow around Western paramedics at work and that would be their 'education' to become paramedics.  Even the Saudis that trained in the US do not have any practical experience as they were not allowed to do practical and vehicular in the US.  They are the ones running the show now.  It is not about helping their brethren, it's about how much money they can make by hook or crook, with the least amount of actual work.  In the whole country with their thousands of so-called 'paramedics', I can only name at the most 5 Saudis who could even be considered paramedics by any civilised standard.  There is no recertification or CE standards and some 'practice' with no sort of certifications at all.

For those who 'just arrived' and are having a 'great time', just wait.  You will see the ugly truth sooner or later.


----------



## alelkins

*Comments*

Yes, we have been warned. Yes, there is an ugly truth. No, SRCA isn't perfect. Some of us MAKE it a great time. We are too busy to be negative. We are not all lambs to the slaughter, as some would seem to believe. Some of us came here with middle eastern experience and knew what to expect. Others maybe not...


----------



## 2easy4u

*Concerned*

Nothing derogatory was intended to the guys currently in KSA. My concern is if SRCA tries to run the HEMS program like they have the ground service, bad things are going to happen. You can't pull to the side of the road and fix a fuel line in a helicopter. Monitoring the quality of fuel when remote fuel sites are established so the air craft don't cough on landing or take off and kill every one. And having that kind of attitude, to fix stuff when it breaks kills crew members. When I first began flying years ago, I didn't know what was dangerous. I didn't know what to look for in a competent pilot. I didn't know that maintenance saves your life every time you take off. I didn't know that experienced med crew is critical in ground opps,especially scenes. I didn't know how important it was for dispatch to flight follow and know exactly where you are when you go down. So that you have some kind of chance to survive a hard landing or crash. The SRCA has 0,none,nada, infrastructure to support a HEMS program. AA provided all of what I listed. Based on my personal experience with the current leadership of the SRCA gives me no confidence in their ability to safely run a HEMS program. And the reason for the warning? Hiring inexperienced crew and using a Saudi pilot that has 5 hours of stick time and was placed in the position because of his name is not going to end well. I just don't want to read about some ones tragic death in a HEMS crash in Saudi Arabia that most definitely could have been avoided.


----------



## alelkins

2easy4u said:


> Nothing derogatory was intended to the guys currently in KSA. My concern is if SRCA tries to run the HEMS program like they have the ground service, bad things are going to happen. You can't pull to the side of the road and fix a fuel line in a helicopter. Monitoring the quality of fuel when remote fuel sites are established so the air craft don't cough on landing or take off and kill every one. And having that kind of attitude, to fix stuff when it breaks kills crew members. When I first began flying years ago, I didn't know what was dangerous. I didn't know what to look for in a competent pilot. I didn't know that maintenance saves your life every time you take off. I didn't know that experienced med crew is critical in ground opps,especially scenes. I didn't know how important it was for dispatch to flight follow and know exactly where you are when you go down. So that you have some kind of chance to survive a hard landing or crash. The SRCA has 0,none,nada, infrastructure to support a HEMS program. AA provided all of what I listed. Based on my personal experience with the current leadership of the SRCA gives me no confidence in their ability to safely run a HEMS program. And the reason for the warning? Hiring inexperienced crew and using a Saudi pilot that has 5 hours of stick time and was placed in the position because of his name is not going to end well. I just don't want to read about some ones tragic death in a HEMS crash in Saudi Arabia that most definitely could have been avoided.



Agreed (whole heartedly). Based on what I've seen and heard from the ground, a similarly operated flight service would likely be VERY short lived. There will have to be a vendor. The SRCA will have to learn and comply. As of right now, AA is the vendor, but we'll see if AA and SRCA can put the past aside and move forward, because the victims here really need us (16 trauma deaths daily in Riyadh alone).


----------



## alelkins

*Additional info for SRCA candidates*

The visa requirements I received from SRCA (attached) listed some things that I found after the fact were different, as listed:

1. Families do not come with the contractor initially, so don't waste time and money on getting the family physicals at this time. Also, no need to send their passports to Gaby. They can't come until you get situated (and get paid).

2. Gaby is a middle person. Your visa will be handled by Visa Obtainers in Washington DC. Find the them on the internet and hound them by phone.

3. Have your notarized Certificates of Employment authenticated by that notary's State Department. Most states will do this directly, but in Tennessee one must have each notary verified by the County Clerk of the county in which they were appointed, then sent to Nashville for authentication. This will save you money here and likely time in the process.

4. Get a notarized copy of your High School diploma.

5. Some folks' physicals were rather pricey, and when questioned, the SRCA said there would be a relocation bonus paid on arrival, to offset those expenses. Don't count on it.

Hope this helps!


----------



## HubblyBubbly

alelkins said:


> Agreed (whole heartedly). Based on what I've seen and heard from the ground, a similarly operated flight service would likely be VERY short lived. There will have to be a vendor. The SRCA will have to learn and comply. As of right now, AA is the vendor, but we'll see if AA and SRCA can put the past aside and move forward, because the victims here really need us (16 trauma deaths daily in Riyadh alone).



Alekins, what you have said is exactly what most of us who were on the ground there have been trying to say for over the last two years. 

The HEMS program kicked off and was in the air within three months of the first flight guys arriving in Riyadh. The ground team was another story. Two years after we started we were still trying to source equipment and have the Saudi's agree to procedures and policies that had been written. For example sharps disposal containers ( the ones circulating were 'donated')  in the ALST kits. 

The reason the HEMS program lifted off so quickly and so well is one. There were very few Saudis involved or in a position to make operational decisions. Not to say they didn't try.

The management and Paramedics with AA were professionals and experienced in running an aviation program. As for the ground we had continual interference and speed humps from certain Saudis with the help of some expats, who through natural attrition and 'wasta' are in positions of authority and calling the shots. 

The whole game changed overnight when the former CEO who had the vision for change was removed. 

Good luck with it. The community does need the service and they are the ones being neglected. I just hope these narrow minded people in power in the SRCA see the light and do the right thing in allowing a positive change that will have an impact on the community. 

Life in Riyadh is OK otherwise. Stay busy odnt let them screw you around too much and stay safe


----------



## alelkins

It's an unfortunate circumstance. The money is here to make the changes, but still there is a lack of progress.


----------



## goatlab

alelkins said:


> The visa requirements I received from SRCA (attached) listed some things that I found after the fact were different, as listed:
> 
> 1. Families do not come with the contractor initially, so don't waste time and money on getting the family physicals at this time. Also, no need to send their passports to Gaby. They can't come until you get situated (and get paid).
> 
> 2. Gaby is a middle person. Your visa will be handled by Visa Obtainers in Washington DC. Find the them on the internet and hound them by phone.
> 
> 3. Have your notarized Certificates of Employment authenticated by that notary's State Department. Most states will do this directly, but in Tennessee one must have each notary verified by the County Clerk of the county in which they were appointed, then sent to Nashville for authentication. This will save you money here and likely time in the process.
> 
> 4. Get a notarized copy of your High School diploma.
> 
> 5. Some folks' physicals were rather pricey, and when questioned, the SRCA said there would be a relocation bonus paid on arrival, to offset those expenses. Don't count on it.
> 
> Hope this helps!




Alelkins,
I've looked over the required and I've a couple questions:
1. what point in the process  is your receive an authorization letter from the SRCA? 
2. How many years of employment history do you have to go back, 10/15?
3. Why does the SRCA require a signed and notarized copy of your college degree and then sealed transcripts?  Seem redundant. 
4 If I've read everyone's comments correctly, you are required to take a physical while in the states then take another physical once you arrived in Saudi. Is that correct?

How long did it take you from the time you submitted an application until you arrived in Saudi?


----------



## alelkins

goatlab said:


> Alelkins,
> I've looked over the required and I've a couple questions:
> 1. what point in the process  is your receive an authorization letter from the SRCA?
> 2. How many years of employment history do you have to go back, 10/15?
> 3. Why does the SRCA require a signed and notarized copy of your college degree and then sealed transcripts?  Seem redundant.
> 4 If I've read everyone's comments correctly, you are required to take a physical while in the states then take another physical once you arrived in Saudi. Is that correct?
> 
> How long did it take you from the time you submitted an application until you arrived in Saudi?



1. Letter received after requested documents submitted to SRCA for review (after application submission).
2. Up to 15 as thats the top of the experience modification.
3. Doesn't matter, they want it. We don't have to understand it, it's their way. Many things will be this way, get used to it now and save yourself stress later...
4. Yes

It is different for everyone, to many variables to predict. My case was 4 months, but I was in Afghanistan and took time off at home.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

Hey in case any of you "Flight medics" need a helmet I have one cheap on sale in for "for sale" section of this site. Send me a pm for further details


----------



## Flight Med

Hey NJ...Wanna buy my chopper?:deadhorse:


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

hey Flight med sure how much


----------



## dtrojan07

goatlab said:


> Alelkins,
> I've looked over the required and I've a couple questions:
> 1. what point in the process  is your receive an authorization letter from the SRCA?
> 2. How many years of employment history do you have to go back, 10/15?
> 3. Why does the SRCA require a signed and notarized copy of your college degree and then sealed transcripts?  Seem redundant.
> 4 If I've read everyone's comments correctly, you are required to take a physical while in the states then take another physical once you arrived in Saudi. Is that correct?
> 
> How long did it take you from the time you submitted an application until you arrived in Saudi?




There seems to be some confusion on here..First a sealed copy means notarized. BUT the catch is they won't accept a state notary they want a US Embassy seal saying its a true copy.
The other misconception i keep seeing on here is that you are dealing with the SRCA..UNTRUE...In the states you are dealing with the Saudi Embassy for your VISA. Your physical there you take will be used for the Health Ministry here to allow you to work and get your Certificate to work.
 If you do not produce a National Registry Cert. You will have to take a general knowledge test. You will also have to PAY out of pocket about $250 for this and they only accept credit cards.
NEXT the physical you take here is for immigration to get your igama for the Ministry of Interior AKA Greencard. Since you have a 90 VISA you have 90 days to secure your Igama, which then replaces your VISA. THEN if you want to drive getting a drivers license is a cake walk compared to everything else...except will cost you around 450 sar but is good for 10 years!
I hope that helps clear things up..clear as mud!!!


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Doug 

Have they put you on a roster...yet????? What station? 

Any updates with the helos? Are they flying?


----------



## dtrojan07

HubblyBubbly said:


> Doug
> 
> Have they put you on a roster...yet????? What station?
> 
> Any updates with the helos? Are they flying?



Sorry i cant answer those questions without knowing who you are.


----------



## Medic One

I just got into contact with a handler and am in process filing all the paperwork. I hope to get this done in the next 30 to 60 days.  Hope to get there soon.


----------



## Armor10

Nice, who is the handler that your dealing with? If you have any questions drop me a PM and I'll see if I can't answer them. I have been here Three weeks now. I just got my Paramedic through the Health Ministry Yesterday.


----------



## Defibber

*Paramedic License Expiration*

I am looking at the idea of coming to Saudi Arabia to work as a Paramedic, but I may have one problem.  My license expires a year from now and supposedly I can't apply to re-license until November.  I actually have all my requirements and them some.  Not sure how that would effect me.  I have been a Paramedic since 1996 and never had a problem, so I don't see any problems with this next license application.


----------



## Defibber

Can I kill a thread or what??  I seem to have this effect on a lot of forums.  Anyone heard any other news from Saudi Arabia?


----------



## HEMS driver

Defibber said:


> Anyone heard any other news from Saudi Arabia?



It is getting hot.


----------



## akflightmedic

Yeh I heard something.

I actually got an email today from the SRCA reminding me to send in my paperwork if I wish to join their team!!  LOL...


----------



## 2easy4u

*Roger That*

SRCA cannot be trusted. Even if you have it in writing. Oh and by the way does any body have a PH # to the SRCA. I would like to divert all the nasty phone calls from my creditors to them. Perhaps it will prompt them to pay me the money that they owe me.


----------



## HEMS driver

2easy4u said:


> SRCA cannot be trusted. Even if you have it in writing. Oh and by the way does any body have a PH # to the SRCA. I would like to divert all the nasty phone calls from my creditors to them. Perhaps it will prompt them to pay me the money that they owe me.



+966-4892225
Fax +966-2806666
info@srca.org.sa
srcsop@srcs.org.sa


----------



## 2easy4u

*Thanks*

I have that # posted on my phones. And as they call me wanting payment I will refer them to that # and tell them to ask for DR Rasheed.


----------



## Motojunkie

akflightmedic said:


> Yeh I heard something.
> 
> I actually got an email today from the SRCA reminding me to send in my paperwork if I wish to join their team!!  LOL...



They're operation is small, but there's a lot of potential for aggressive expansion!


----------



## 2easy4u

*Perhaps Not*

After they lure western medics in and turn them into slave labor, maybe. Legitimately, no they will stay as the obtuse organization of the world.


----------



## Defibber

HEMS driver said:


> It is getting hot.



Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.  lol


----------



## LawKev

*Srca*

Hi,

I'm studying to take the EMT-B exam. I'm interested in working in Saudi or ALMOST any arabic speaking country. Years ago I was accepted to a school in Saudi but I only stayed for a few months. I would say i'm pretty fluent in the language and I mean classical. I read that the SRCA requires 2-4 years as a Paramedic. Does this have to be a degree or is a certificate ok? How strict are they in their selection process? Is it very competitive? What are some of the requirements other than what is listed on their site?

Thanks in advance


----------



## alphatrauma

LawKev said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm studying to take the EMT-B exam. I'm interested in working in Saudi or ALMOST any arabic speaking country. Years ago I was accepted to a school in Saudi but I only stayed for a few months. I would say i'm pretty fluent in the language and I mean classical. I read that the SRCA requires 2-4 years as a Paramedic. Does this have to be a degree or is a certificate ok? How strict are they in their selection process? Is it very competitive? What are some of the requirements other than what is listed on their site?
> 
> Thanks in advance



There are only 82 pages in this thread... you *NEED TO READ THEM ALL*. The information you want/need is there, so do yourself a favor and take a couple of hours to carefully read all 82+ pages. You will be better off for it, and more prepared to make a well informed decision about contracting with the SRCA. Best of luck to you


----------



## LawKev

Thanks. When I went to school in Saudi it was a similar run around getting documents notorized, translated, criminal background check, sending my passport to the embassy and waiting for my passport to arrive with the visa and plane ticket. I guess its a e-ticket these days. I was there in 2000 before 9/11.


----------



## dtrojan07

HEMS driver said:


> It is getting hot.



GETTING HOT????
What Saudi Arabia are you in? It's been raining here everyday for the last couple weeks..flooding!! I was at a tent city outside of Riyadh today that all i could see was the top of the tents!
Feels more like Florida with the rain and Humidity lately.
BUT still love it! " Living the Dream!"


----------



## dtrojan07

HEMS driver said:


> It is getting hot.



Matt?????


----------



## Medic13

*Looking for information*

I have read many of the threads.  Can anyone say specifically state how much money they are making?  What kind of living conditions are available?  What does the job entail?  Can a family live their?  Job responsibilities?  Did anyone bring a family over?  US taxes?  Has anyone been killed for any reason?  Anything that is in the day and life.   What are some of your experiences?!

Thanks


----------



## akflightmedic

Medic13 said:


> I have read many of the threads.  Can anyone say specifically state how much money they are making?  What kind of living conditions are available?  What does the job entail?  Can a family live their?  Job responsibilities?  Did anyone bring a family over?  US taxes?  Has anyone been killed for any reason?  Anything that is in the day and life.   What are some of your experiences?!
> 
> Thanks



In regards to salary, it was posted. The pay was *up to 17000 SAR a month which is about 4500 US a month. Not a lot of money in the contract world as most make that back home...so money needs not to be your motivator for this adventure.

Living conditions have been commented on as well...you need to go back and read.

Yes families can live there, many posts on that and those who took families over. Also, posts on what your wives and/or children will be forced to endure.

Job responsibilities they can answer.

US Taxes: I wrote about this myself. You are able to claim tax free status on the first 91400 USD earned (which at that salary you wont come close) provided that you remain OUTSIDE the USA 330 days in a 12 month period.

Thats right, to avoid taxes, you can only visit the USA 35 days in a 12 month period. So you may wish to not visit family or friends for a year because you do not want to risk your tax free status. You want to save thsoe days for emergencies. Someone gets ill, dies, or you need to go home buy a house or take care of matters such as that...that is what you save your days for.

So if you don't go home, what do you do. Well, you travel. You see the world. Of course you aren't being paid while on holiday, so now you are taking less pay in and spending more on your travels. That 4500/month goes pretty darn fast.

Good Luck!


----------



## alelkins

akflightmedic said:


> In regards to salary, it was posted. The pay was *up to 17000 SAR a month which is about 4500 US a month. Not a lot of money in the contract world as most make that back home...so money needs not to be your motivator for this adventure.
> 
> Living conditions have been commented on as well...you need to go back and read.
> 
> Yes families can live there, many posts on that and those who took families over. Also, posts on what your wives and/or children will be forced to endure.
> 
> Job responsibilities they can answer.
> 
> US Taxes: I wrote about this myself. You are able to claim tax free status on the first 91400 USD earned (which at that salary you wont come close) provided that you remain OUTSIDE the USA 330 days in a 12 month period.
> 
> Thats right, to avoid taxes, you can only visit the USA 35 days in a 12 month period. So you may wish to not visit family or friends for a year because you do not want to risk your tax free status. You want to save thsoe days for emergencies. Someone gets ill, dies, or you need to go home buy a house or take care of matters such as that...that is what you save your days for.
> 
> So if you don't go home, what do you do. Well, you travel. You see the world. Of course you aren't being paid while on holiday, so now you are taking less pay in and spending more on your travels. That 4500/month goes pretty darn fast.
> 
> Good Luck!



The pay can be more than 17k SAR monthly, up to almost double that figure (based on experience)

Job responsibilities are just like being a paramedic anywhere, except you don't typically have as much to work with here (fewer drugs and equipment)

My contract allows 30 days paid leave annually (remember your working 4on/4off so that equates to 15 days actually paid) plus comp time for holidays worked

I can say that aside from the relocation bonus not being paid, SRCA has honored their offer to me. I have worked for several companies over the years that changed the music mid-dance so I've seen that before. The SRCA Self Operation Program has experienced some setbacks and growing pains but I believe they are working to improve the system. Middle eastern culture is different and the logic and thought processes that westerners are accustomed to do not apply here. If you keep that in mind and
understand that life runs at a different pace and with different priorities here, you can be happy. If you cannot grasp those concepts, you will hate it here. You control your experience based on that. 

Hope this helps! Cheers!


----------



## akflightmedic

I dunno man...it is a 48 hour work week and the OT is factored into your quoted salary.

All the early posters had the same wage offers...around 17500 SAR.

If you can get up to double that, that puts you at the bottom of the scale for high threat environment work. If you are able to make 8000 USD a month working in KSA, then more power to you.

However in all the years of contracting and all the people I know who have contracted way longer than myself, I have never seen or heard of anyone making that as a medic in KSA. It just does not happen.

KSA has the reputation of being the lowest paying contracting gig and has held that rep for 15+ years.


----------



## dtrojan07

alelkins said:


> The pay can be more than 17k SAR monthly, up to almost double that figure (based on experience)
> 
> Job responsibilities are just like being a paramedic anywhere, except you don't typically have as much to work with here (fewer drugs and equipment)
> 
> My contract allows 30 days paid leave annually (remember your working 4on/4off so that equates to 15 days actually paid) plus comp time for holidays worked
> 
> I can say that aside from the relocation bonus not being paid, SRCA has honored their offer to me. I have worked for several companies over the years that changed the music mid-dance so I've seen that before. The SRCA Self Operation Program has experienced some setbacks and growing pains but I believe they are working to improve the system. Middle eastern culture is different and the logic and thought processes that westerners are accustomed to do not apply here. If you keep that in mind and
> understand that life runs at a different pace and with different priorities here, you can be happy. If you cannot grasp those concepts, you will hate it here. You control your experience based on that.
> 
> Hope this helps! Cheers!



Ok big spender..you get to buy the Cuban cigars next time!   Oh wait you did!  thanx bud
And BTW running the Medic chase car system does ROCK 
And for all you sitting out in THREAD-land with your panties all in a bunch. Once you get here get you stuff done. Learn the people the culture and accept it for what it is. Be open minded and start shifts.
Life isn't too bad. I come from a system working 90hrs plus a week.
We work 2-12s(days) 24hrs off 2-12s(nights) then 4 days off every rotation(tour) We can also trade for 4 days and  have 12 days off in a row with no vacation time used.
So what am I saying? If you want to travel see the world get paid decent money. Have lots of time off to travel more. Europe, Africa, Far East, Egypt, Turkey. Dubai, Kuwait, Bahrain(drive)  are all easy flights from here.
This is not a bad GIG


----------



## alelkins

akflightmedic said:


> I dunno man...it is a 48 hour work week and the OT is factored into your quoted salary.
> 
> All the early posters had the same wage offers...around 17500 SAR.
> 
> If you can get up to double that, that puts you at the bottom of the scale for high threat environment work. If you are able to make 8000 USD a month working in KSA, then more power to you.
> 
> However in all the years of contracting and all the people I know who have contracted way longer than myself, I have never seen or heard of anyone making that as a medic in KSA. It just does not happen.
> 
> KSA has the reputation of being the lowest paying contracting gig and has held that rep for 15+ years.



I know what my contract says, and we'll see tomorrow if it's true (payday). As I mentioned earlier, they are trying to change for the better.


----------



## alelkins

dtrojan07 said:


> Ok big spender..you get to buy the Cuban cigars next time!   Oh wait you did!  thanx bud
> And BTW running the Medic chase car system does ROCK
> And for all you sitting out in THREAD-land with your panties all in a bunch. Once you get here get you stuff done. Learn the people the culture and accept it for what it is. Be open minded and start shifts.
> Life isn't too bad. I come from a system working 90hrs plus a week.
> We work 2-12s(days) 24hrs off 2-12s(nights) then 4 days off every rotation(tour) We can also trade for 4 days and  have 12 days off in a row with no vacation time used.
> So what am I saying? If you want to travel see the world get paid decent money. Have lots of time off to travel more. Europe, Africa, Far East, Egypt, Turkey. Dubai, Kuwait, Bahrain(drive)  are all easy flights from here.
> This is not a bad GIG



Maybe you can store my cheap Cubans in your fancy humidor for me, eh? :unsure:^_^
Big spender my eye!!!


----------



## Flight Med

let me take a moment to briefly explain my experience working in   KSA  for action aviation as a flight paramedic. A large group of us were contracted through action aviation as consultants to help build the flight paramedic program in Saudi Arabia. We were brought over with contracts stating 60 days in country 30 days back at the point of origin and were paid a dollar amount per every day which we were in country with all travel expenses paid, housing was to be provided along with food laundry and travel throughout Riyadh. Unfortunately, some of this did not turn out to be true. after we got in country our schedule was to work four days on four days off. The work was exciting but very dangerous. The Saudi's have very little experience with helicopters and you would think it was a UFO by the attention it got, for example, cars driving under the helicopter on our final approach, cars driving under the rotor disk while loading patients people walking up just a touch to helicopter. That was a safety concern right off the bat! But I can say the Saudi's are genuine good people, very friendly and always willing to help. My point is: action aviation was responsible for our salaries  from what I've learned... I returned home broke because action aviation said that they could not pay us because they ran out of money due to the Saudi red Crescent Authority not paying them, however my contract was with action aviation and not the Saudi red Crescent Authority. Also, the Saudi red Crescent Authority was responsible for our meals, lodging, laundry and transportation while we were there... I can say that I never went hungry only slipped in a nice bed was treated especially good and had clean clothes. It seems to me that the Saudi red Crescent Authority fulfilled their end of the bargain however action aviation did not. I'm sitting back in the states with no job and scrounging to eat at the moment due to my ignorance. I personally have met Hamish  Harding, who is the owner of action aviation incentive many e-mails explaining him our circumstances and all I get in return is false hopes, empty promises and still to this day no paycheck. Keep in mind that we're talking over $14,000 here! So to whoever reads this keep in mind that these are only my personal experiences and there is approximately 60 others in the same boat as I am. If you're looking for venture, different culture nice people and definitely hot weather and you want to try something different with your career, form your own opinion. as for AKflightmedic, the conversation we had in December on the phone I am not too proud to say YOU WERE RIGHT. on a different note what Al was saying about the salary is true.  if anybody has any questions please feel free to PM me if you wish.


----------



## Flight Med

Please forgive some of the grammar and punctuation. I was using voice to text.


----------



## akflightmedic

FlightMed, I sent you a PM.

Get a hold of me ASAP.


----------



## Flight Med

Do you stii have my email address?


----------



## Defibber

alelkins said:


> I know what my contract says, and we'll see tomorrow if it's true (payday). As I mentioned earlier, they are trying to change for the better.



How was the Payday?


----------



## alelkins

Payday was correct amount, on time, as promised. Working on the multi entry/exit for me and family visa for the wife and daughter...


----------



## Defibber

Good to hear.  I made contact with one of their recruiters that is evidently traveling around the US.  I sent him my resume, but I haven't heard back from him.  I guess we will see.


----------



## Flight Med

*Bye bye action*

http://www.ameinfo.com/232219-large.html


----------



## Flight Med

http://www.ameinfo.com/232219-large.html:deadhorse:


----------



## Flight Med

http://www.ameinfo.com/232219-large.html


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Flight Med said:


> http://www.ameinfo.com/232219-large.html



Well done SRCA. Good to see they have moved on and are setting up with a new company. Hopefully they have learnt from their past mistakes and do not repeat them resulting in more employees being screwed over and families being unsettled. Hopefully people will get paid!

Nice photo I must say. Note not a westerner insight.

Good luck with it Abu Dhabi Aviation obviously due diligence is not one of your strong points when doing business:unsure:


----------



## DesertMedic

Well I have remain quiet until this point.....It seems like this was their plan all along to get professionals there see how they operate, screwed them over, and then bring in an Arab company. I just hope this doesn't end the same way it did a few years back when they attempted it. It would also be nice if they would pay those of us they used to see how to correctly operate a HEMS service. For all of those considering working HEMS in Saudi please use caution. It is a completely different entity than EMS especially in Saudi and you can not cut corners. You are dealing with people who have no concept of how to behave around a helicopter and remember if your ambulance quits driving down the road you simply pull over and if your a/c quits mid flight you better have a hell of a pilot to get you on the ground safely.


----------



## celts

I have seen the proposed airframes.  They do not even have a med interior!!!
At the business end of these airframes sitting in the hot seat will be Arab guys lead by Capt Fantastic himself.  You wont be getting this black duck anywhere near this operation.  The grim reaper is waiting for this one to start...good luck SRCA Flight Medics:wacko:


----------



## 2easy4u

*Srca  crash team*

I wonder if WHEN they crash it will even be reported. And the crew will have even existed. If a nobody [ Western Medic] according to the Saudi's were on the helo WHEN it crashes then I guess it never happened. Something to think about right guys.


----------



## DesertMedic

I'm w/ u celts....I wouldn't crew an AC with a pilot I didn't trust 110%. I hope the SRCA flight medics use caution,,,,,there are some good guys there at least the ones left that haven't already quit!!


----------



## HEMS driver

There will likely be "western" flight crews, aviation managers, trainers, etc.  Saudization is decades away.


----------



## celts

Are you joking HEMS Driver???  SRCA couldnt shove a soapy stick up a dead dogs arse let alone run a safe and effective HEMS operation.  10 years ago I saw 30% Westerners in health care facilities.  Now its either all Filipinos or other Arabs.  Most places I see now have NO Westerners.  We all know what happened in Jeddah not so long ago.  We have a duty to make sure our EMS friends and colleagues who are tempted and lured by SRCA recruitment propaganda know the risks both emotionally, financially and to their lives.  Ohh yes and if you ever find yourself in hospital in KSA???  They dont believe in narcotic analgesia.  Its probably going to be tylenol IV for you pal until they ship you out in pain.


----------



## HEMS driver

Celts, you can rant and rave, but I did not say anything about the SRCA doing pilot staffing.  Read my post again.  

Abu Dhabi Aviation is the *contractor* that we are discussing, yes?  The SRCA is the customer.  

Now, let me help you.  It is LIKELY that Abu Dhabi Aviation will be staffing their *flight crews* with "westerners" because you won't find Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan or Philippino *flight crew*.  BTW, flight crew in aviation terminology means PILOTS.

It is the same for pilot trainers and managers.

Clear as mud?  :beerchug:


----------



## HubblyBubbly

HEMS driver said:


> Abu Dhabi Aviation is the *contractor* that we are discussing, yes?  The SRCA is the customer.




This  is true but who pulls the strings ( and pays the bills)???? If it is not done the way the SRCA, as the customer want, Abu Dhabi Aviation like AA will get the arse Arab or not. 

The bottom line is the clowns running the SRCA have no idea. I am not saying this because of bitter feelings towards the SRCA. I am saying it because I know the string pullers and their experience/background/qualifications. 

The new regime led by boy wonder (Dr R) and his handpicked minnions do not like to be outdone by people who have experience/qualifications and a background in what they are trying to achieve both air and ground.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

celts said:


> At the business end of these airframes sitting in the hot seat will be Arab guys lead by Capt Fantastic himself.



Are you referring to Captain/Doctor Fantastic? How many hours did he have flying?  If someone can explain to me how someone can complete a medical degree and be a commercial rated HEMS Pilot at the same time? 

I have known many med students and the poor suckers do not see the light of day for years because of study. Either the guy is Einstien or somethings going to suffer (work performance wise). 

He is a good swimmer though, used to see him cavorting with a SRCA staff member (expat) in the compound pool. Theres some pics about probably on facebook or somewhereB)


----------



## celts

Hey Bubblies.....Just having fun here with HEMS Driver.  I think I worked out who he is???  He must be a buddy of Capt Fantastic!!!  He wouldnt know if his NOTAR was on fire!!!


----------



## S_Steingrobe

Hey guys,

I have just red a lots of your post over the last weeks and I must say: interesting.

As the CEO of a world wide biggest operating Company in establishing and creating EMS Systems for countries, I am interesting in your details about whats going on in Saudi actual.

As you said, there a not much information coming out from saudi, so I need someone, who can tell me more about the actual situation.
Even its good for you guys, sitting there without any structure in the EMS System even existing. Sounds so.

We are having some meetings in the next couple of weeks with the "important" people in the kingdom to discuss a project plan which includes the establishment of an international guided and based EMS System (ALS) and an operational HEMS Service.

As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations.
Thats not the thing, but as I red in your articels, they got some Helos from the Abu Dhabi Aviation. Its not mentioned in the articel, I have seen, they would provided the service.
Whatever, even if they want. I know the services in Abu Dhabi. The only professional service thereover is falcon aviation. Dont trust the rest. So in this case, there is not really an HEMS Service coming, we know probalby.

It would be very helpfull to get as much information as I can from you guys, to set the papers up to its best. So in this case, we got the project, there would be much better situations in HEMS Service and in ground based EMS as its now.
SOPs, structurized units and stations, medications (ALS) and normal know devices. and and and. Thats what we want, thats what SCRA shows they need. 

Please write me if you have something for me, which could help us to get in and even make your workplace a little bit more save and structurized.

Thanks for your time,

Sascha


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Well done S_Steingrobe. It is not long ago you were applying for a job with the SRCA. Now CEO. Well done

If you want info contact the Germans that left the SRCA over the last two years. One has posted on this thread. They will give an honest account.

By the look of your post is your company is seriously looking at doing business in Saudi?


----------



## S_Steingrobe

Hey Hubble,

yes I have applied for a job, but it was just to check the situation of recruiting and to get in contact to people who are responsible.

Do you know the name of the German who has left the SCRA?

Yes we are interested in doing buisness in Saudi. We have already had smaller projects in the middle east and we know about the pro and contra doing business in this part of the world^^.


----------



## 2easy4u

*Money talks*

The biggest most important thing that you can tell the Saudi's is. PAY THE GUYS THAT STARTED THE PROGRAM. I will tell you this. If the company that got the contract has no HEMS experience very bad and unforgiving things are going to happen. They apparently think that you can just throw some things in a helo and take off. No flight following no maintenance no experience. Pilots with five minutes of stick time. They are going to kill a bunch of people before they stop this program. The # 1 reason is, you can't fix stupid. They will just have to find out on their own because they the SRCA won't listen. I just hope and pray that we can get the word spread fast enough to western flight crew to stay away. I really don't see how the Saudi's believe that they can attract flight crew when they haven't paid the first flight crews that gave them what frame work that they currently have. Once any one with any experience finds out how they want to run the program will run as fast as they can away from this mess. I was one of the first eleven, we all had compassion and for the Saudi people. And we all had a passion to start up this program safe and build something that would last and be successful for many years. However there was a power change and the new guy. Dr Rasheed runs the program just like the ground service. And when any one suggests that we have to do the job a certain that has already been proven to be safe and successful  for decades he reacts like a four year old child that didn't get the candy bar that he wanted. He used his power to push the professionals out because they won't run an unsafe program. And he is using the non pay issue to exact revenge. Mark my words here. If the SRCA continues down the path that they have taken you can expect a disaster in a very short time causing multiple deaths. That's reality. But I'm sure that your all excited about the new/old project. Go for it man,get in there and get you a big mess of it. And then after, read this post again.


----------



## DesertMedic

I am also one of the original flight medics....and also one who hasn't been paid. I have been in the mid-east off and on since Mar 2003 and Saudi is the 5th country I have worked in in the mid-east. I am very accustomed to arabic ways and I have to say that what went on with the SRCA was unlike anything else I have experienced in the mid-east. We came in and set up a top level service at least with what meds we could get and and they never supported or paid us. Why would you ask for a service if you have no intention on paying. Now you say your service will be a higher level than an American service and I would have to observe for myself but that was the best thing about the HEMS program we set up because we had paramedics from 5 different countries, everyone functioned well together and we took the best attributes from all countries so you would be hard pressed to find a better program. That being said, it feels like it is all a big game to the management of SRCA and that they just wanted to use us to see how it should be done, stiff us, and then try to mimic the program we set up. The sad truth of this is that people left good jobs, poured their hearts into this program, and all they received in return was getting stiffed on pay and having their lives turned upside down. We are in a professional field and to be treated like that is unacceptable. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors but I would never recommend anyone working for/ with the SRCA unless they do something to weed out the corruption and realize there is no room for ego's when it comes to an organization that is in charge of saving peoples lives.


----------



## 2easy4u

*Well Done*

Thanks Desert Medic. You said it very succinctly and professionally.


----------



## goatlab

S_Steingrobe said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> _As the CEO of a world wide biggest operating Company in establishing and creating EMS Systems for countries, I am interesting in your details about whats going on in Saudi actual.
> 
> We are having some meetings in the next couple of weeks with the "important" people in the kingdom to discuss a project plan which includes the establishment of an international guided and based EMS System (ALS) and an operational HEMS Service.
> 
> As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations.
> Thats not the thing, but as I red in your articels, they got some Helos from the Abu Dhabi Aviation. Its not mentioned in the articel, I have seen, they would provided the service.
> Whatever, even if they want. I know the services in Abu Dhabi. The only professional service thereover is falcon aviation. Dont trust the rest. So in this case, there is not really an HEMS Service coming, we know probalby.
> 
> It would be very helpfull to get as much information as I can from you guys, to set the papers up to its best. So in this case, we got the project, there would be much better situations in HEMS Service and in ground based EMS as its now.
> SOPs, structurized units and stations, medications (ALS) and normal know devices. and and and. Thats what we want, thats what SCRA shows they need.
> 
> Please write me if you have something for me, which could help us to get in and even make your workplace a little bit more save and structurized.
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> _
> Sascha



*S_Steingrobe

Best advice, demand payment in advance. 

Don't apologize for having higher standards than the America HEMS in Europe but the reality is you won't in Europe, you'll be in Saudi.  Therefore you'll have to comply with GACA rules. One object we were working toward for SRCA was Part 135 certification under GACA. If they still want their 135 cert you are in for a lot of work and headaches.

If you truly are going to have meetings with "important" people in Saudi then I'd suggest you limit your comments on this thread, they are monitored by SRCA.

PM me if you want more info on what happened.*


----------



## alelkins

*Pay*

I'm confused...were you guys that didn't get paid working for SRCA or Action Aviation? Because I was under the impression you were AA employees...


----------



## 2easy4u

*Tangled up mess*

At this point the responsible party is the one that has all the money. I guess one way to detail it would be kind of like if you were building a house and you hired a guy to supervise the building of the house because you didn't know how to do it. This guy lets call him Mac Daddy is reputable and is a professional. Mac in turn hires specialized framers because the house plans will have to have guys with special skills and there are only say a handful of these special framers on the planet. You have already tried to build this house once using the people in your area that didn't have these special skills and it ended in a miserable catastrophe costing several human lives in an accident. Mac Daddy has operated this project for several months without pay from you. Also as part of the extension of Macs contract you have agreed to pay room and board plus transportation for the specialized crews. And over the entire period you have used these items to toy with these crews and Mac Daddy first giving only to take away the transportation and food,and threatening to kick the crews out of the hotel. Bare in mind that you haven't paid for any of this stuff yet. Your just jacking with people because you can and they can't do anything about it because after all these guys are in your country and their life has no value in your country. Finally Mac Daddy tells you that he can no longer pay the people that have been working on your house because he has used all of his money building your house. You simply laugh in his face and keep smoking your crack that you have become hooked on. Because you must be on crack to think that your house will be constructed free of charge. Mac Daddy tells the crews what has happened and gives some hope of getting paid later. Several of the crew leave and go back home the following day. You in turn are running a little low on crack the day after and decide to jack with Mac and his crew because you realize that people are in fact leaving. You hold the remaining crews hostage and make Mac pay a wad of money just so these guys can go home. Mac pays the money and those wanting to go are allowed to. Now two months later these crews still haven't been paid and your still on the crack only worse now because your trying to get some one else to come in and build your free house for you. Now when the person that you work for is broke and can't pay the responsible party is the owner because he is the beneficiary of the hard work already performed. 

I was raised in building construction. My father taught me that depending on the circumstances. That means finding the fault or problem regarding pay you eventually have to get paid. And you may have to either expose the bad guy to every one in the profession or you might even have to go kick the guys *** a few times before he pays you. Usually my father knew exactly what went on behind the scenes and went straight to the guy trying to screw every one and beat his *** until he paid. Of course that is all old school. I hope the story I told helps you understand that the AA crews poured their heart into this project only to be jacked around by what must be a crack head.


----------



## goatlab

2easy4u

I like the way you put that.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*Higher Standards?!?*

"As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations."

Why is it that after your name you list FP-C, and CCEMT-P? These are all certifications given here in America. If your European certifications and standards are so superior, then I would imagine it to be beneath you to even advertise your certified in such. You even go on to put the logo as your Blog Icon. Are you kidding me?


----------



## alelkins

I sympathize entirely. It's a bugger of a situation. As I posted previously, there is plenty of blame to go around. Also, as I have beat this horse beyond recognition, I will just make these parting comments.

I too was a residential contractor. I am familiar with the dynamic of which you write. However, during my tenure as a builder, I NEVER stiffed those who worked for me, because they worked for ME. If I had an issue with the client, it was mine. My guys always got a paycheck. That's the nature of good business.

As for the relationship between AA and SRCA, I only know what I have been told, which was, that the contract was initally for some 52 million dollars (+/-) and 1/2 had been paid to AA by SRCA. There seems to be some questions about the remaining 26 million (or somewherre thereabouts) and that was a participating catalyst in the reorganization of the SRCA.

I truly hope the AA guys get their payroll for time served. No one deserves to get the shaft after doing their best in good faith. I'm sure AA could write the payroll checks anytime if they chose to do so. I also intend to let this stuff go and focus on the future, and appreciate the Japanese perspective; It doesn't matter whosew fault it is, let's just fix it.

I call on SRCA to pay what's owed, AA to pay what's owed, and everyone chalk up some expensive education as we move forward with EMS in KSA.

Best wishes to all!


----------



## 2easy4u

*I understand*

I and my father made sure any one working for us got paid regardless if we collected on the contract. But as I have indicated in previous posts. All have responsibility. I feel it is extremely important for the HEMS community to see and understand what has transpired so that as this goes forward every one understands and knows the complications and problems to be avoided. As far as letting go. I have moved on with everything except for making sure fellow flight crew are not put in jeopardy. I definitely want and expect to be paid. I will continue to pursue that where ever it takes me. In the mean time I will also continue to point out the bad guys in my story with passion. AA may have the money to pay every one today. I however have no reason currently to believe that. But I do know for certain that the SRCA can make all of this go away in seconds if they pay their bills.


----------



## S_Steingrobe

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> "As HEMS academy and international acting HEMS Organisation as well, we have our own crews and pilots, who are able to train and to establish the required service, based on European standarts, which are (sorry) higher than the american standarts for HEMS Operations."
> 
> Why is it that after your name you list FP-C, and CCEMT-P? These are all certifications given here in America. If your European certifications and standards are so superior, then I would imagine it to be beneath you to even advertise your certified in such. You even go on to put the logo as your Blog Icon. Are you kidding me?



FP-C And CCEMTP are only medical educations!! In my personal data its asked for Paramedic Training. Has nothing to do with operational training for aircrafts. Thats why these education are listed. Thats the difference. We have although an operational HEMS education on top in Europe especially in Germany which is the an HEMS Crew Member Education. This is a 6-8 Weeks education made with the govermental medical flight training center. Only with this education, you are allowed to fly as a medic, because you are the second to the pic. Advanced meterology, navigation with different avionics, radio and and and are things to have been learned. Its a non medical education just operation only. BTW you make your W-Operator.
I dont wanna say the american is worth. Just wanna say, we have a some more things to go through, not only a medical education which is needed, like in the states.  Maybe you have changed your rules, but then its new to me, that you need something like this education by law.

Cheers Sascha


----------



## S_Steingrobe

BTW, if have made my FP-C in Germany, we although have the IAFP Germany here, brought over from the States and I have done my CCEMTP in the States in Baltimore.
So long ^^


----------



## S_Steingrobe

alelkins said:


> I sympathize entirely. It's a bugger of a situation.



You mean me with that?


----------



## 2easy4u

*Safety*

I have been flying a long time. A safe program will have the same safety record as the rest of the industry,and that covers the whole planet. I think the ratio is about 5 or 6 % of flights have an incident of some kind. I am not certain on the number as I have not reviewed the data in several months. There are a lot of things that influence flight opps other than the actual mission. Appropriate qualified maintenance, management pressure to fly especially from a management that has no concept of HEMS. You can do everything else and let just one thing have the wrong influence and the crew pays the ultimate price. At the end of the day a person can have all of the letters of the alphabet and all the numbers after their name and still succumb to non compliance and complacency if management politicizes the program. Good luck with everything,just get paid well in advance and when the advance comes due again require payment or shut down opps immediately.


----------



## S_Steingrobe

2easy4u said:


> I have been flying a long time. A safe program will have the same safety record as the rest of the industry,and that covers the whole planet. I think the ratio is about 5 or 6 % of flights have an incident of some kind. I am not certain on the number as I have not reviewed the data in several months. There are a lot of things that influence flight opps other than the actual mission. Appropriate qualified maintenance, management pressure to fly especially from a management that has no concept of HEMS. You can do everything else and let just one thing have the wrong influence and the crew pays the ultimate price. At the end of the day a person can have all of the letters of the alphabet and all the numbers after their name and still succumb to non compliance and complacency if management politicizes the program. Good luck with everything,just get paid well in advance and when the advance comes due again require payment or shut down opps immediately.



You are absolutly right (sorry for my english). You can do all you want for the best safe service, but at the end there are these small problems, nobody have seen, which comes together and at the end, you will have the big problem causing in a crash. So mostly the crashes have been influenced by human factors..


----------



## akflightmedic

Ooofah....


----------



## 2easy4u

*Yippeee!*

Gotcha.
Sounds like a bad day for you. I can get over it as fast as you can pay us all for our work! Until then it will only get worse. From this point on no response will be necessary from you unless you want to talk about paying what you owe to all. Unless you just need to vent.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

And the SRCA Mr Ahmed Almaziad does act in a professional manner??? 

How many Sth African employees had passports confiscated and no exit visas including emergency exit visas issued let alone denied vacations etc since Oct 2007? (Sth African Embassy/Ambassador can confirm this)

How many years has it taken the Paramedic project to get the much needed life saving equipment requested instead of cheaper inferior equipment we didnt want but purchased anyway from Uncle Alis' emporium because maybe 20% commissions were paid to people?

How many employees (expat) have had salaries deducted/reduced for no valid reason?

How many employees have left since Oct 2007 when the first expats arrived because of the poor standards the SRCA shows employees? Come on, what is the total number hired? I knew everyone of them and they would have stayed if they were treated better by the Saudis in the SRCA.

What is the real reason Dr Mowaffag Albayouk and anyone associated with him removed ? Is it true after Dr Albayouk was removed the new CEO walked into the SOP and ordered the Aviation team to vacate their office space on level 3? 

Talking of morality the SRCA is using students, no qualifications, no experience to drive emergency vehicles in the ALST. Would you do the same in a HEMS operation and risk lives?

And the way you are speaking it sounds like you are on the 8th floor at Sahafa? You keep referring to everything as yours and were there before the management changed. You also write very well for a Saudi so must be educated outside Saudi.

If I am correct the professionalism of your staff is to be looked seriously. After 2.5 years there I know when I am being called an infedel in Arabic and can understand enough of the language to know when the Arabs were talking about the expats.

You all preach the love and harmony of the Islam you "practice"  but Allah knows the water in all of the world oceans could not wash you all of your sins.


----------



## gutrathatcrashed

Hmmmm well said Mr Bubbley


----------



## gutrathatcrashed

Well Well Mr Ahmed.  Did Dr R pay you overtime for this message.  Ohhh I forgot.  SRCA does not pay its staff nor its contractors regular wages let alone overtime.  I am sure the Faisal and other more reputable health care organizations in the Kingdom pay correct salaries.

Anyways what you say is kind of correct and incorrect at the same time.  Lets make some corrections.




AhmedAlmaziad said:


> Yady yady yada,
> 
> Let me add something to your story to make it more interesting.
> 
> Mac Daddy was in Qatar when he heard about my project and breached his contract there in order to contract with me. As he informed me that he had an experience with my proposed project, I selected him over 80 tenders thinking that he is the one. I didn't knew that Mac Daddy had a history of breaching contracts until 2 weeks back when I contacted the company in Qatar and they told me that Mac Daddy even made some crew member quit there jobs over there to come to my project. :mellow: How moral is that?
> *Did Mac Daddy put a gun to their head and force them to come to KSA for this doomed Air Ambulance Project?  We all make our own choices!!!*
> 
> Anyway, Mac Daddy started the project of 6 machines in 2 diffirent cities (3 in central region and 3 in western region) with minimum equipment. He brought in only four machines. One was broken the whole time.
> *Thought it was only 4 Airframes and only in Riyadh.  Never saw any airframes make it to Jeddah.*
> 
> He asked for storage for his machines. so I made some contacts to get this storge, but his idiot "Project Director" refused the storage and claimed he wants to refuel his machines only. So I lost the storage because of his mismanagement. *Hmm maybe your are right on this one*
> 
> Later on, Mac Daddy said; we need ladders. so I sent some guys to help out and buy ladders. His engineers say; no we need special stages that are only sold on line in Grainer.com. so I asked him to buy what he needed and I'll pay him in cash. What do I get? normal 8 Ft. + 10 Ft. + 12 Ft. ladders that could have been bought locally to fix his broken machines.
> 
> Next, He asked for the salery for his crew. I pay him SAR 24,407,000 to cover all saleries and other expenses. Two months later, when I changed my management, he became anxious and do not know what to say or what to do...*Why did SRCA change its management so abruptly and so quickly?   The new management was and is ruthless and uncaring.  Its doing its best to shaft its own employees let alone Mac Daddy*
> 
> He started to fire people (Chris, Richard, Len) because they have some safety concerns that he didn't like. :angry: *You only have one of the names correct here.  Actually the correct one you mention was quite a competent.  One of the others spent his time in Jeddah playing golf all day and the other was a young loud mouthed idiot from West Texas who spent his days insulting Saudis and sorting out his Facebook profile.  We never heard anything from these guys about "safety concerns"  They were more concerned with there own wallets!!!   This is a JOKE*
> 
> Then, he asked for more money to pay saleries. I didn't like what's going on, so I stopped paying him and asked for a breakdown for the 24,407,000 that I paid him earlier. Of course, him and his idiots refused to provide me with any information at the time, but later on, he finally gave me the breakdown after my lawyer called him and was for twelve millions and said that he owes me 12 mills. :angry:
> *Could this be true???  Only SRCA and Mac Daddy knows*
> 
> Your Mac Daddy claims he wants to restart the project, but he must be paid first in order to cover the "restart expenses"
> 
> I do not deny that Mac Daddy brought some good people that wanted to help, but he also brought some idiots like (Steve, Will, Bill, Ken, Pablo ... etc) I remeber Steve didn't believe he was the Project Director and Will "Mac Daddy's Private Pilot" was Deputy Project Director. Bill was ??? I don't know what. Ken was the paramedic at end stage. Pablo, a car sales man who worked previously in General Motors and then became a Dispatcher and when everyone left became the new "Project Director"
> *Who the hell is Ken???.  Anyhow Ahmad you are 90% correct on this one.  Actually the only one who had any promise on this team was old Bill.  Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater here.*
> 
> What can I say about this company??? :unsure:
> 
> and now 2easy4u comes here and starts talking about the project like he knows everything.  *Maybe he does???*
> 
> My question is: Did you have a contract with me or with Mac Daddy?
> I don't know why you have this much hate for me and you accuse me for not paying you. *Well this is a bit like BP blaming its contractor for ruining a large part of the Gulf of Mexico.  Its contractor was only there at the request of BP.  BP is supervising this whole project the same as SRCA for its Air Ambulance operations.   Mac Daddy would not have turned up if SRCA had not accepted it as a vendor/contractor.  SRCA cannot wash its hands of this mess.  Because at the end of the day this is  your project!!!  Right now there are all these guys that have not been paid and this steaming pile of crap will continue to haunt both Mac Daddy and the SRCA until its finally sorted out. *I asked for your CV to correct your status, but your management refused! What else do you want me to do?  * You can do plenty...you are supervising this project and it belongs to you.  You can either pay all of us who are out of pocket and re-hire all these guys to continue this important service.   Many of us had no idea that you were asking for CVs.  Maybe you could have communicated this better???*
> 
> You know, if you can't get over this after 2 months  I suggest you see a shrink to help you.
> *Well this situation will continue to haunt both Mac Daddy and the SRCA for a lot longer than 2 months so you better get used to it.  The sooner SRCA mans up and sorts this out the better.  A lot of people have been screwed up the arse by SRCA also.  This includes Westerners, Saudis and other Arabs.  At least SRCA does not discriminate about who it screws!!!   I am not sure any shrink is going to help.*



*Ohhh and  your friends from Abu Dhabi have been reading this and if they had any brains would be wondering what the hell!!!  As I said SRCA does not care who it screws.*


----------



## HubblyBubbly

gutrathatcrashed said:


> Hmmmm well said Mr Bubbley



Your welcome mr gutratthatcrashed! Who is this guy anyway I have never heard of him and I knew pretty much everyone involved in the SRCA? Maybe PM me if you want


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

2easy4u said:


> Gotcha.
> Sounds like a bad day for you. I can get over it as fast as you can pay us all for our work! Until then it will only get worse. From this point on no response will be necessary from you unless you want to talk about paying what you owe to all. Unless you just need to vent.



We have a saying here:

Whatever you cannot reach with your hand, reach it with your leg. That means (keep barking at the wrong tree) and we will move on.

The truth of the matter is that you were contracted with AA and you didn't get paid by them.


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

HubblyBubbly said:


> And the SRCA Mr Ahmed Almaziad does act in a professional manner???
> 
> How many Sth African employees had passports confiscated and no exit visas including emergency exit visas issued let alone denied vacations etc since Oct 2007? (Sth African Embassy/Ambassador can confirm this)
> 
> How many years has it taken the Paramedic project to get the much needed life saving equipment requested instead of cheaper inferior equipment we didnt want but purchased anyway from Uncle Alis' emporium because maybe 20% commissions were paid to people?
> 
> How many employees (expat) have had salaries deducted/reduced for no valid reason?
> 
> How many employees have left since Oct 2007 when the first expats arrived because of the poor standards the SRCA shows employees? Come on, what is the total number hired? I knew everyone of them and they would have stayed if they were treated better by the Saudis in the SRCA.
> 
> What is the real reason Dr Mowaffag Albayouk and anyone associated with him removed ? Is it true after Dr Albayouk was removed the new CEO walked into the SOP and ordered the Aviation team to vacate their office space on level 3?
> 
> Talking of morality the SRCA is using students, no qualifications, no experience to drive emergency vehicles in the ALST. Would you do the same in a HEMS operation and risk lives?
> 
> And the way you are speaking it sounds like you are on the 8th floor at Sahafa? You keep referring to everything as yours and were there before the management changed. You also write very well for a Saudi so must be educated outside Saudi.
> 
> If I am correct the professionalism of your staff is to be looked seriously. After 2.5 years there I know when I am being called an infedel in Arabic and can understand enough of the language to know when the Arabs were talking about the expats.
> 
> You all preach the love and harmony of the Islam you "practice"  but Allah knows the water in all of the world oceans could not wash you all of your sins.



Hubbly Bubbly or should I say Philip 

I've heard about your sneaky ways trying to get every body in trouble. Let me ask you this: Why didn't the SRCA recontract with you? was it because of your behaviour?


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

Did Mac Daddy put a gun to their head and force them to come to KSA for this doomed Air Ambulance Project? We all make our own choices!!! 
(no but he offered something that SRCA and AA didn't agree on like private made, driver, western compound, prepaid cell. phones ... etc plus at least 30% over current salery)

Thought it was only 4 Airframes and only in Riyadh. Never saw any airframes make it to Jeddah. 
(See! just like you thought that SRCA is responsible for not paying the crew. There are 2 contracts for 3 aircraft for Riyadh and 3 for Jeddah)

Hmm maybe your are right on this one
(Tell me this, How did you feel bing managed by Steve and Will? How do you think we feel about them managing our project?)

Why did SRCA change its management so abruptly and so quickly? The new management was and is ruthless and uncaring. Its doing its best to shaft its own employees let alone Mac Daddy
(From what I know is that Dr. M is the one who asked to be relieved from his job, and besides at least SRCA changed the management from a doctor to another doctor unlike AA from Beavis to Butt-head; Steve then Pablo. :unsure

You only have one of the names correct here. Actually the correct one you mention was quite a competent. One of the others spent his time in Jeddah playing golf all day and the other was a young loud mouthed idiot from West Texas who spent his days insulting Saudis and sorting out his Facebook profile. We never heard anything from these guys about "safety concerns" They were more concerned with there own wallets!!! This is a JOKE
(that's what we hear from some AA employees, rumors and gossip about others. Thank you for making this clear.)

Could this be true??? Only SRCA and Mac Daddy knows 
(if you want send me your email and I'll send you the document to prove that just like the document I sent to prove Steve was lying about not receiving the requests for your certificates and licenses.)

Who the hell is Ken???. Anyhow Ahmad you are 90% correct on this one. Actually the only one who had any promise on this team was old Bill. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
(that is another problem, some AA staff don't know who they work with!)

Maybe he does???
(ya, just like you know about the contracts for 6 aircraft for Riyadh and Jeddah)

Well this is a bit like BP blaming its contractor for ruining a large part of the Gulf of Mexico. Its contractor was only there at the request of BP. BP is supervising this whole project the same as SRCA for its Air Ambulance operations. Mac Daddy would not have turned up if SRCA had not accepted it as a vendor/contractor. SRCA cannot wash its hands of this mess. Because at the end of the day this is your project!!! Right now there are all these guys that have not been paid and this steaming pile of crap will continue to haunt both Mac Daddy and the SRCA until its finally sorted out. 
(Man, you have a problem understanding contracts. We are not happy you didn't get paid, this caused you to leave our project. I don't have a problem with you. My problem is with Mac Daddy or Hamish who was the cause of this situation.)

You can do plenty...you are supervising this project and it belongs to you. You can either pay all of us who are out of pocket and re-hire all these guys to continue this important service. Many of us had no idea that you were asking for CVs. Maybe you could have communicated this better???
(as an administrator, I follow the chain of command. Meaning that I communicate with your management and if they did pass the information to you don't shoot me. Speaking of communication, since this is our project like you said then why did AA make their meeting at the intercon by the pool? why not in the building with SRCA staff to share every detail and obsticles to work together to make this better.)

Well this situation will continue to haunt both Mac Daddy and the SRCA for a lot longer than 2 months so you better get used to it. The sooner SRCA mans up and sorts this out the better. A lot of people have been screwed up the arse by SRCA also. This includes Westerners, Saudis and other Arabs. At least SRCA does not discriminate about who it screws!!! I am not sure any shrink is going to help.
(I suggest you either file a legal complaint using the contract between you and AA or you won't get any where because we met all our contractual obligations, but Action Aviation didn't.)

Ohhh and your friends from Abu Dhabi have been reading this and *if they had any brains* would be wondering what the hell!!! As I said SRCA does not care who it screws.
(Man you can't convince people when you doubt their intelligence.)

Again I thank you for your comments and wish you best of luck.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

AhmedAlmaziad said:


> Hubbly Bubbly or should I say Philip
> 
> I've heard about your sneaky ways trying to get every body in trouble. Let me ask you this: Why didn't the SRCA recontract with you? was it because of your behaviour?



Yes Why didn't the SRCA recontract me? You or someone in an official capacity is invited to inform me as to this date i have not received any explanation. Every attempt I made to find out after I received an email informing of " the desire of the CEO not recontract" went unanswered. That you call professional behaviour? 

What sneaky ways trying to get every body in trouble?  You are invited to listed them all. I will admit the ones I got in trouble (Saudis) were the ones that refused to pay salaries for employees, denied vacations and emergency exit visas to employees and acted in a dangerous and corrupt manner where lives of employees and patients were put at risk. 

I did this as a Manager and as a professional. It was part of my role that any competent manager would have done the same but yes thats right I did get questioned by the new regime after 18 months as a manager by the same people that introduced me as the manager in meetings etc on the validity of my position and accused me that I was lying that i was an appointed Manager and maybe self appointed myself.

I have received a warning from the forum admin about my posts. Because I speak the truth and warn others that the SRCA is not the humanitarian organisation it pretends to be to the world.


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

I don't know you very well man, but let me ask this: When you were working for SRCA were you ever had to work without being paid?

I used to work in maintenance in the U.S at the college I used to go to and my employer fired me after two weeks for no reason. May be bacause I worked part time ?? I don't know, but here I am. I have no hard feelings for him what so ever. He can choose whomever to hire as it's an easy job. As for you, I am sure that besides your "negative behaviour" you still got skills as a Paramedic and there are plenty of institutions that would love to hire you. So move on.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

AhmedAlmaziad said:


> I don't know you very well man, but let me ask this: When you were working for SRCA were you ever had to work without being paid?
> QUOTE]
> 
> The answer is YES.
> 
> So what is your position in the organisation? And as you said you dont know me very well if at all? If you knew me you would know what I believe in and how i put my neck on the line for employees who were scared to speak up. I only did it as it was my job as a Manager to do so. So your earlier comments about my sneaky ways getting people in trouble is just hearsay??? Or do you have evidence as thats all I am interested in.


----------



## Flight Med

Well up until now I have been kind to Hamish Harding and his so called company (Action Aviation)...So here goes.
It seems as though our "contracts" he promised us was to good to be true due to the fact he has his business registered in Dubai and tie to the UK and according to a UK lawyer he stated that suing him would be difficult.  I feel we were set up from the beginning and now we are all out to suffer!  His lies deceit and poor business ethics combined with lack of professional morals has made quite a name in this ruckus.  He knew that he was not going to (able or not) from the time we got there that's why he waited until the last minute to tell us we were not getting paid.  Also we "had" insurance for a whole 29 days and cancelled our policies without us knowing, prior to us getting the so called insurance billing the SRCA for our premiums when we did not even have any.  Hiring fixed wing pilots to head a HEMS operation when we used rotor wing...Really? I will tell u this about the pilots we had there though...they were the $hit!  They were awesome.  I don't care whether the SRCA paid AA the money or not, that's not my problem...My contract was with AA and to tell us (flight paramedics) no pay until I get paid is shoddy on his behalf.  If that was the case I would have stayed at my great flight job making big bucks than to give up my job and return home with a big fat goose egg.  As to date I am scrambling to get on my feet, my truck has been repo'd, my storage contents auctioned off, and above all else missing my 6 year olds birthday because I have no money to go see him; pleading with Hamish through emails to pay us something at least prior to this happening only to get replies saying "very unfortunate indeed"!...Really, that's all I get?:angry:


----------



## Flight Med

Sorry about the rant.


----------



## DesertMedic

Bottom line......?? extreme unprofessionalism on both ends. And not only were the AA flight paramedics not asked for their CV's but the few that were still there while the others were on leave, were told that the SRCA was not interested in *anyone* except the 3 who were no longer with AA that are now being slammed by SRCA?? (wanted to clarify that issue). Regardless of what was going on behind the scenes between management on both sides, the people in operations (pilots, paramedics, technicians) provided a very needed service to the people of Saudi in an extremely professional and proficient way. I have several certifications in management and choose not to work in management due to incidents exactly like this. The first thing you learn in management 101 is that the people on the front lines are what people see of your business. The HEMS program was performing at a top level with the exception of the inability to get the proper tools needed to fully do our job correctly. If you have that in place....then why as a manager (SRCA) would you allow that to fall apart, let alone push it out?? You keep the core people performing the job and re-build around that. The paramedic contract world is very small and even smaller when it comes to aviation. Sure you can hire any medic and throw him on a helicopter but there is so much more to aviation medicine than a ground medic is aware of. Unfortunately pilots ad technicians are not as easy to replace. It is obvious by this ongoing thread that the majority of professionals who have contact with the SRCA are less than satisfied by the treatment they received. It seems peoples lives are used as some kind of game. People quit their jobs to go to KSA and work and try to make a difference. I personally consider myself lucky because I have had better experiences in other middle-east countries and had a safety net to fall back on. Others were not so lucky and this whole situation has caused them problems that will take a long time to recover from. As I stated before that there was unprofessionalism on both sides, but SRCA is the umbrella that everything falls under and if the reputation of the SRCA was not so tarnished than it would be much easier to point the finger at AA. I do agree that AA holds a lot of the blame also but once again the people who have suffered the most are the crews that came over there and performed the service they were hired for, and did so above and beyond what was expected of them. And the people of Saudi will be affected also because what I saw in my short time there by the medics in place including western medics blew my mind at the negligence that was allowed to be practiced. Please no one take this out of context because I also met some great medics working for the SRCA. Unfortunately I don't think they will stay long if things there don't change and some that I keep in contact with have already left. For those in management at SRCA I challenge you not to take this as an insult but as informational and use this to try and help re-structure your organization in a professional and proficient manner. Your fellow countrymen need a better service because the fact is people are dying everyday that don't need to. Please understand that when management demeans people that it is not only unprofessional but unnecessary. I understand that there was a lot of negativity on both sides but the people at the ground level who are innocent have been caught up in this and suffered the most. I have been in the middle-east now for seven years and would be very hesitant in recommending anyone to work for the SRCA until I saw significant changes in operations. Ego's have to be put aside, in this line of work it cost lives when they are not.


----------



## 2easy4u

*I do know a few things.*



AhmedAlmaziad said:


> We have a saying here:
> 
> Whatever you cannot reach with your hand, reach it with your leg. That means (keep barking at the wrong tree) and we will move on.
> 
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. I don't live in Saudi Arabia so you can't reach me with hand or leg. So are you going to come to the US and do what? Cause an international incident? Not wise my friend. The US Embassy wouldn't be able to give you cover on that one like they do in Saudi Arabia. Oil producing companies and countries are kind of on the down turn in the US public eyes right know. And probably for many years to come as the gulf sates coast line become coated with oil. I would also add caution to any action at that level because now I have to prepare for that. And this is my country not yours.
> 
> Now that we [The guys that didn't get paid] have your attention when can we expect payment for our work and all of our troubles. I noticed that you stated we were 30% overpaid and had transportation and hotel accommodations provided. The offered pay was barely worth it and if you take away the transportation and hotel accommodations no body would come. So I can take from that, you want cheap inexperienced paramedics to fly around in a helicopter without narcotics or paralytics or the correct equipment to operate and do what. As I have said before, I have been flying well over a decade, and to live long enough to do that in a HEMS program means I know and understand the risks and dangers. If you put a bunch of inexperienced crew on your helo's you will plant have of them in six months. Cheap  Charley is not a good idea. SRCA has been very fortunate up to this point,however if this story ever gets into the 24 hour news circuit it's going to be a bad day. Especially if there is a crash,because all of this chatter in the different forums becomes very animated. I have a suggestion for you. It sounds like you went to western schools. If you had an acquaintance in the west that could have some one oblivious to all of this SRCA/Action Aviation controversy  to just read what has been said and report their opinion back to you. That could give you a feel for public opinion and how to deal with a helo crash where crew members are killed.
> We worked in your country and we helped several people for the short period that we were there. For the Saudi government to respond the way that they have is very unfortunate not only for the HEMS operators,but for the Saudi people.


----------



## JayPal

*Real Deal*

Well I see that this mess has ended up in a mess of a thread with name calling and finger pointing. I think it is about time that I give my side. As most of you know, I was the Chief Flight Medic for the program. I am the one who recruited, hired, supported, and enjoyed working with the Flight Medics. I was not part of the "Operations Management" team, although now I think we should have been! AA was sailing along and had done the impossible by setting up the service within such a short time. This is a big pat on the back for the AA TEAM. We got little help from SRCA during this and it was like pulling teeth to get anything from them. We had limited supplies and several other challenges that we overcame to start and operate the service successfully. 

Somewhere along the line people came into the picture and CEO's where changed. People like Bill (not sure what he did other than get insurance for 29days) Dr. Rashid and his team. This is where the rumors fly about who did what and who didn't do what. I am not getting in this mud pit. 

What I will do is tell you that I was asked to resign on March 23rd by Bill and Will for rumors that I was recruiting for the SRCA and that I had received a contract with them. That was totally UNTRUE!!! I did give Ahmed all the CV's for the flight paramedics when he asked for them as I knew that it was only a short time until AA was out of business. I did this as a manager and friend to my employees so that they might have a chance of keeping paying work. In the end, the SRCA decided not to contract with anyone from AA. This is their right but I was trying to lookout for my guys. I was just trying to give my guys options. 

As for the rest of the story, well as Ahmed states it is history and only time will tell if we get our money from Action Aviation. I personally blame AA for not holding up their end of the contract. 

So the moral of the story, nothing is ever guaranteed as I told every medic I hired personally, this is fantasy land so live it for each day as tomorrow they might send you home!!

Cheers,
Jay


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

HubblyBubbly said:


> AhmedAlmaziad said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know you very well man, but let me ask this: When you were working for SRCA were you ever had to work without being paid?
> QUOTE]
> 
> The answer is YES.
> 
> So what is your position in the organisation? And as you said you dont know me very well if at all? If you knew me you would know what I believe in and how i put my neck on the line for employees who were scared to speak up. I only did it as it was my job as a Manager to do so. So your earlier comments about my sneaky ways getting people in trouble is just hearsay??? Or do you have evidence as thats all I am interested in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very much interested in getting more information about your case so please email me and I will find out what went wrong and if SRCA owes you money I will get it for you. so please through an email to: ahmedalmaziad@gmail.com
Click to expand...


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

JayPal said:


> Well I see that this mess has ended up in a mess of a thread with name calling and finger pointing. I think it is about time that I give my side. As most of you know, I was the Chief Flight Medic for the program. I am the one who recruited, hired, supported, and enjoyed working with the Flight Medics. I was not part of the "Operations Management" team, although now I think we should have been! AA was sailing along and had done the impossible by setting up the service within such a short time. This is a big pat on the back for the AA TEAM. We got little help from SRCA during this and it was like pulling teeth to get anything from them. We had limited supplies and several other challenges that we overcame to start and operate the service successfully.
> 
> Somewhere along the line people came into the picture and CEO's where changed. People like Bill (not sure what he did other than get insurance for 29days) Dr. Rashid and his team. This is where the rumors fly about who did what and who didn't do what. I am not getting in this mud pit.
> 
> What I will do is tell you that I was asked to resign on March 23rd by Bill and Will for rumors that I was recruiting for the SRCA and that I had received a contract with them. That was totally UNTRUE!!! I did give Ahmed all the CV's for the flight paramedics when he asked for them as I knew that it was only a short time until AA was out of business. I did this as a manager and friend to my employees so that they might have a chance of keeping paying work. In the end, the SRCA decided not to contract with anyone from AA. This is their right but I was trying to lookout for my guys. I was just trying to give my guys options.
> 
> As for the rest of the story, well as Ahmed states it is history and only time will tell if we get our money from Action Aviation. I personally blame AA for not holding up their end of the contract.
> 
> So the moral of the story, nothing is ever guaranteed as I told every medic I hired personally, this is fantasy land so live it for each day as tomorrow they might send you home!!
> 
> Cheers,
> Jay



I agree that because of the previous management as you all know the project was facing obsticles in even setting up the basics. Engineer Mostafa was being the controler over even Dr. M in this set up. I remember giving him a request for some basic computer supplies for the operation and he kept it in his drower for months until Dr. M gave Saher petty cash and bought the nessecary needs.


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*To Ahmed*

Ahmed, The Medevac got into service as early as it did because of Action Aviation. The number of flight medics that were processed and working by the SRCA was only about 5. Action brought over 22 Flight Medics, and staffed the ships months before your SRCA hired medics were ready to FLY. If you did have all 6 ships inservice how much longer would it take to processes 22 people. There were medics that I worked with that applied over a year before they were over there with action, and they never heard anything from SRCA recruiting. I doubt that the service would have been flying sooner if it was left to the current pace of processing. 
Whether you paid your crews or Action Aviations the truth is you would not be flying at this point using your 5 people as slave labor. That is unsafe and when accidents happen.
So in sense what I am saying is yes you are responsible for paying us, even if it were through Hamish. You cant pay us? And then deduct it from what he owes you. I would consider the month even, at the rate you pay your flight medics now. Something is better than nothing,


----------



## gutrathatcrashed

*SRCA EMTs*

It seems that another direct hire western Flight Medic may have done a runner in the past few days.  Why would people do this for such a good employer!!!
How many is this now???


----------



## Flight Med

At this time...I encourage a representative from both organizations to state their cases with 100 percent truth.  I may not know all the details, however I know the consequences I have suffered both personally and professionally.


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

2easy4u said:


> AhmedAlmaziad said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have a saying here:
> 
> Whatever you cannot reach with your hand, reach it with your leg. That means (keep barking at the wrong tree) and we will move on.
> 
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. I don't live in Saudi Arabia so you can't reach me with hand or leg. So are you going to come to the US and do what? Cause an international incident? Not wise my friend. The US Embassy wouldn't be able to give you cover on that one like they do in Saudi Arabia. Oil producing companies and countries are kind of on the down turn in the US public eyes right know. And probably for many years to come as the gulf sates coast line become coated with oil. I would also add caution to any action at that level because now I have to prepare for that. And this is my country not yours.
> 
> Now that we [The guys that didn't get paid] have your attention when can we expect payment for our work and all of our troubles. I noticed that you stated we were 30% overpaid and had transportation and hotel accommodations provided. The offered pay was barely worth it and if you take away the transportation and hotel accommodations no body would come. So I can take from that, you want cheap inexperienced paramedics to fly around in a helicopter without narcotics or paralytics or the correct equipment to operate and do what. As I have said before, I have been flying well over a decade, and to live long enough to do that in a HEMS program means I know and understand the risks and dangers. If you put a bunch of inexperienced crew on your helo's you will plant have of them in six months. Cheap  Charley is not a good idea. SRCA has been very fortunate up to this point,however if this story ever gets into the 24 hour news circuit it's going to be a bad day. Especially if there is a crash,because all of this chatter in the different forums becomes very animated. I have a suggestion for you. It sounds like you went to western schools. If you had an acquaintance in the west that could have some one oblivious to all of this SRCA/Action Aviation controversy  to just read what has been said and report their opinion back to you. That could give you a feel for public opinion and how to deal with a helo crash where crew members are killed.
> We worked in your country and we helped several people for the short period that we were there. For the Saudi government to respond the way that they have is very unfortunate not only for the HEMS operators,but for the Saudi people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wait a minute here.
> 
> I don't know how to explain more about this. I even mentioned an American saying that goes with ours (barking at the wrong tree) (shooting bullets hoping one will hit) What you are doing is barking at the wrong tree. Whatever happens between SRCA and AA shouldn't implicate you and prevent you guysfrom getting paid as AA was over paid as per Hamish him self. I have a document from him stating that after a selly breakdown to the 24 millions he still owes  us 12 millions. Now, why didn't this cover your salery? you have to ask HH about this.
> 
> As for the benefits that flight medics receive in SRCA:
> 1. Basic Salery
> 2. Appropriate Housing or Housing Allowance. (whichever you prefer)
> 3. Transportation Allowance.
> 4. some other allowances mentioned in the job offer.
> 
> while AA was promising you guys without any mutual agreement with SRCA:
> 1. Monthly Salery
> 2. Housing in a western compound like Arizona or 5 star hotel.
> 3. Transportation (a car full of fuel and/or a driver)
> 4. Private made
> 5. Free high internet
> 6. Free food
> 7. Free laundry
> 8. Free free free and to be paid by SRCA which is an institution in the largest oil producer in the world and don't know how to spend money!!
> 
> Come man, be realistic. now I agree with you that Cheap Charley is not a good idea in a new project with potentials, but also we don't live in Paris Hilton's world. SRCA spent a lot of money in this project and didn't benefit from it because of AA mismanagement.
> 
> We (the people of Saudi Arabia) appreciate very very much your help and like I said before, we are unhappy that you had to leave the project because of non payment of salery from AA. The government has nothing to do with it. SRCA stopped paying AA because they were over paid.
Click to expand...


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

NJFLGHTMDC said:


> Ahmed, The Medevac got into service as early as it did because of Action Aviation. The number of flight medics that were processed and working by the SRCA was only about 5. Action brought over 22 Flight Medics, and staffed the ships months before your SRCA hired medics were ready to FLY. If you did have all 6 ships inservice how much longer would it take to processes 22 people. There were medics that I worked with that applied over a year before they were over there with action, and they never heard anything from SRCA recruiting. I doubt that the service would have been flying sooner if it was left to the current pace of processing.
> Whether you paid your crews or Action Aviations the truth is you would not be flying at this point using your 5 people as slave labor. That is unsafe and when accidents happen.
> So in sense what I am saying is yes you are responsible for paying us, even if it were through Hamish. You cant pay us? And then deduct it from what he owes you. I would consider the month even, at the rate you pay your flight medics now. Something is better than nothing,



Yes, AA hired 22 Medics in a short period. By the way, I applied for your Governement Visit Visa because I was told to do so.
This process didn't take more than a week to get you here, but you know that you have to go for a visa run every now and then. You can't open a bank account, no driving license, no other benefits. It's stated in your visa that you weren't permitted to work and you even can't ask for you salery because you weren't permitted to work. I'm sure you know this already.

The other process will give you all benefits above even though it takes a longer period to get it.

I understand your feeling and that's was why you call our pro paramedics (slaves) I would leave this to one of them who is a member of this website to reply to you.


----------



## gutrathatcrashed

*Action Impact*

I am just sitting here in my desert villa tonight looking over some of the Action Impact and Helicopter Safety Footage.  The quality and the creativity of the graphics is outstanding.  I have heard from many people within KSA that have seen this stuff and think its sensational.  Such a pity that its all been screwed up and so much money wasted.

On a slightly brighter note there is a slight rumor getting around that 2 very large organizations within KSA are looking at this situation and have seen all this creative work and the MD902s in action (pardon the pun).    These organizations have little respect for SRCA.  

It must be kept in mind that this latest in a long line of screw ups by the SRCA over the years does not represent the work of other health care organizations in this country.  There are many other organizations that provide a high standard of EMS and emergency health care.  They pay reasonable salary, decent housing. great equipment and will not change your contract after you are in country.  SRCA should not be a poster boy outfit for EMS in this country

If SRCA cant do this right then another outfit may.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

AhmedAlmaziad said:


> HubblyBubbly said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very much interested in getting more information about your case so please email me and I will find out what went wrong and if SRCA owes you money I will get it for you. so please through an email to: ahmedalmaziad@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Ahmed I am still interested in who you are and what your position is in the SRCA? I am not going to waste my time emailing to someone who has no authority to actually get the money.
Click to expand...


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

*Give it a shot*



HubblyBubbly said:


> AhmedAlmaziad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Ahmed I am still interested in who you are and what your position is in the SRCA? I am not going to waste my time emailing to someone who has no authority to actually get the money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. phil,
> 
> You are already wasting your time in this website try to foul everyone with you threads. So, why not give it a shot if you really have a case to present.
Click to expand...


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

gutrathatcrashed said:


> I am just sitting here in my desert villa tonight looking over some of the Action Impact and Helicopter Safety Footage.  The quality and the creativity of the graphics is outstanding.  I have *heard *from many people within KSA that have seen this stuff and think its sensational.  Such a pity that its all been screwed up and so much money wasted.
> 
> On a slightly brighter note there is a slight *rumor* getting around that 2 very large organizations within KSA are looking at this situation and have seen all this creative work and the MD902s in action (pardon the pun).    These organizations have little respect for SRCA.
> 
> It must be kept in mind that this latest in a long line of screw ups by the SRCA over the years does not represent the work of other health care organizations in this country.  There are many other organizations that provide a high standard of EMS and emergency health care.  They pay reasonable salary, decent housing. great equipment and will not change your contract after you are in country.  SRCA should not be a poster boy outfit for EMS in this country
> 
> If SRCA cant do this right then another outfit may.



Blah Blah Blah


----------



## akflightmedic

Mr. Ahmed, you have now lost all credibility.

You came to present the other side, yet you can not identify yourself when asked.

You then respond to a post as blah blah blah.

Unprofessional with a hint of deception = no credibility


----------



## HubblyBubbly

akflightmedic said:


> Mr. Ahmed, you have now lost all credibility.
> 
> You came to present the other side, yet you can not identify yourself when asked.
> 
> You then respond to a post as blah blah blah.
> 
> Unprofessional with a hint of deception = no credibility




Well said AKflightmedic.

I have a feeling this guy is a combination of several devious minds and not one lone employee of the SRCA. 

If Mr Ahmed you have any credibility you would state who you are, what your position and authority is, and what your real aim is? 

My email address has not changed as is well known in the SRCA. Maybe you email me? 

I am not wasting my time as every foreigner that reads the posts and decides not to seek employment with the SRCA is a win for all those ones that got screwed.


----------



## AhmedAlmaziad

HubblyBubbly said:


> Well said AKflightmedic.
> 
> I have a feeling this guy is a combination of several devious minds and not one lone employee of the SRCA.
> 
> If Mr Ahmed you have any credibility you would state who you are, what your position and authority is, and what your real aim is?
> 
> My email address has not changed as is well known in the SRCA. Maybe you email me?
> 
> I am not wasting my time as every foreigner that reads the posts and decides not to seek employment with the SRCA is a win for all those ones that got screwed.



I already identified my self when I registered in this website. I put my real name here. What is important here is for you to prove that SRCA owes you money. 

Why are you so interested in my position? Do you want your money or my position?

You are the one saying that SRCA owes you money! I didn't ask for your bank account, all I asked is to email me with your side of the story and the amount of money you think SRCA owes you. You want your money you email me, I am not gonna email you. You have to reach to get answers not wait for answers to come to you Mr.

One more thing when you say *"I am not wasting my time as every foreigner that reads the posts...etc."* that just shows how full of hate you are. Good luck living the rest of your life like this.

As for akflightmedic,

I responded to Bubbly as his posts were just as rediculous as yours , (I've heard many people)(there's a slight rumor), so Blah Blah Blah is what I understood from this post. You don't have anything sensational and you don't want to email to get answers to your queries. so go ahead keep barking...


----------



## 2easy4u

*To the People of Saudi Arabia,Your Welcome*



AhmedAlmaziad said:


> 2easy4u said:
> 
> 
> 
> wait a minute here.
> 
> I don't know how to explain more about this. I even mentioned an American saying that goes with ours (barking at the wrong tree) (shooting bullets hoping one will hit) What you are doing is barking at the wrong tree. Whatever happens between SRCA and AA shouldn't implicate you and prevent you guysfrom getting paid as AA was over paid as per Hamish him self. I have a document from him stating that after a selly breakdown to the 24 millions he still owes  us 12 millions. Now, why didn't this cover your salery? you have to ask HH about this.
> 
> As for the benefits that flight medics receive in SRCA:
> 1. Basic Salery
> 2. Appropriate Housing or Housing Allowance. (whichever you prefer)
> 3. Transportation Allowance.
> 4. some other allowances mentioned in the job offer.
> 
> while AA was promising you guys without any mutual agreement with SRCA:
> 1. Monthly Salery
> 2. Housing in a western compound like Arizona or 5 star hotel.
> 3. Transportation (a car full of fuel and/or a driver)
> 4. Private made
> 5. Free high internet
> 6. Free food
> 7. Free laundry
> 8. Free free free and to be paid by SRCA which is an institution in the largest oil producer in the world and don't know how to spend money!!
> 
> Come man, be realistic. now I agree with you that Cheap Charley is not a good idea in a new project with potentials, but also we don't live in Paris Hilton's world. SRCA spent a lot of money in this project and didn't benefit from it because of AA mismanagement.
> 
> We (the people of Saudi Arabia) appreciate very very much your help and like I said before, we are unhappy that you had to leave the project because of non payment of salery from AA. The government has nothing to do with it. SRCA stopped paying AA because they were over paid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that is your argument. That the SRCA wanted AA to provide western flight medics in a hurry because SRCA was unable to man the ships in a short time. And now SRCA wants to pay for a golf cart after the Cadillac was delivered. We also have a saying in the US. " Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining".
Click to expand...


----------



## goatlab

*A little confusing*



AhmedAlmaziad said:


> I already identified my self when I registered in this website. I put my real name here. What is important here is for you to prove that SRCA owes you money.
> 
> Why are you so interested in my position? Do you want your money or my position?
> 
> [*FONT="Arial Black"]Yes, you provided your name and email address. However, the email address is to a personal account and not one of the SRCA. That maybe want is confusing to people. I think people want to know is what exactly is your position within the SRCA and do you have authority to approve pay? [/FONT]
> *
> 
> You are the one saying that SRCA owes you money! I didn't ask for your bank account, all I asked is to email me with your side of the story and the amount of money you think SRCA owes you. You want your money you email me, I am not gonna email you. You have to reach to get answers not wait for answers to come to you Mr.
> 
> One more thing when you say *"I am not wasting my time as every foreigner that reads the posts...etc."* that just shows how full of hate you are. Good luck living the rest of your life like this.
> 
> As for akflightmedic,
> 
> I responded to Bubbly as his posts were just as rediculous as yours , (I've heard many people)(there's a slight rumor), so Blah Blah Blah is what I understood from this post. You don't have anything sensational and you don't want to email to get answers to your queries. so go ahead keep barking...



*As a 3th party observer here, I have to say I feel more hatred coming from you MR. Ahmed. Let me explain -  thus far you are the only one who have called people name, ie, idiot, butthead, etc. What I sense from others is frustration. 
Take it for what it's worth, just an observation.
Frankly, you now have me curious as to what your role is within the SRCA and the HEMS opns.  *


----------



## Veneficus

*another 3rd party observer.*

usually when 2 people have opposing perspective, the truth is somewhere near the middle.

I have to say though, as an expat myself, I am smart enough to stay out of countries like Saudi.

Look at this situation:

Saudi is not a modern country, it is a nation and culture that hasn't moved past despotism in the middle ages. A major part of their very culture is antiwesternism. They have a lot of money and think they can simply "buy" their way into the modern world. Rather they want to buy the appearance of being modern.

I met a Saudi expat who wanted to play the guitar, so he went down to the music store and bought the most expensive one available. 3 weeks later when he wasn't Jimi Hendrix II he gave up and sold it at a fraction of what he paid. That is what you are dealing with.

If you were ever involved in setting up an EMS system from nothing before you should realize that success is very small victories. You don't just show up and things are how you want.

So a group of westerners thought they were going to go to Saudi, make a bunch of money and work in a dream environment? You complain of your treatment from a culture that is the antithesis of yours? Did you think you were going to go there and be treated well or even fair? 

When you got there and your passport was taken and/or you needed an exit visa did you realize your freedom to move (ie: escape) was virtually nothing?

Did you call the Embassy and ask questions before you went? (or even look at the webpage on Saudi) did you visit the country prior to agreeing to move there? Did you have a lawyer specializing in their laws and customs review your contract? (not that it matters since you have no rights as a non citizen.) Did you see how they treat their own people and think you would be treated better?

When one agency couldn't do in 22 days what was being done by another in 5did it seem too good to be true? Was what they were offering you in compensation too good to be true? 

Often you will find when something is too good to be true, it is not true.

When in less developed nations than the West did it occur to your that the margin of acceptable danger and losses was not the same as in the West?

Did it occur to you they would rather lose 1000 or more of you to one of their own? 

Did it occur to you that in less developed nations, the natives live by the rule looking out for themselves and getting ahead by any means neccesary?

When the word of what is going on got out somebody over in Saudi needed to save face. They started replying to the posts here. He or They probably have no intention of helping you. It looks like a front. 

If you worked for a contractor, then your contractor owes you money, SRCA or the Saudi govt. doesn't owe you anything. subcontractors in the US are notorious for ripping off people.

There is also no shortage of American companies, contractors, or experts going abroad and ripping people off. Especially in that part of the world. You think the Saudis ripped you off. They think (probably rightly so) the contractor ripped them off an nobody is going to give any ground to the other.

All this back and forth is just sour grapes. You got ripped off. You are lucky to have managed to make it out of there at all. Learn from it, don't repeat the mistakes. if you feel altruistic warn others not to make your mistakes. 

It's over and you are not getting your money, whether it is owed to you or not. (If you were hired by AA it looks to me like AA owes you the money, best of luck getting it from them.)

Being called an infidel could almost be a compliment. Most Central Asian's
refer to westerners as "cockroaches." How do you treat a cockroach?

This is almost as dumb as that 17 year old girl killed in Aruba. Clearly she didn't know enough or have the skills to survive in a foreign land. The world is not one big America. The rules are not the same. 

It's probably good less than 20% of Americans have a passport.


----------



## Flight-LP

Veneficus said:


> I have to say though, as an expat myself, I am smart enough to stay out of countries like Saudi.
> 
> It's probably good less than 20% of Americans have a passport.



The best statement of the entire thread!

I second this thought wholeheartedly.

Chalk it up as a lesson learned about life, culture, and humility. Never gamble with more than you are willing to lose and always know the players at the table.

I wish the best of luck to all involved.............................


----------



## 2easy4u

*All good points.*



Veneficus said:


> usually when 2 people have opposing perspective, the truth is somewhere near the middle.
> 
> I have to say though, as an expat myself, I am smart enough to stay out of countries like Saudi.
> 
> Look at this situation:
> 
> Saudi is not a modern country, it is a nation and culture that hasn't moved past despotism in the middle ages. A major part of their very culture is antiwesternism. They have a lot of money and think they can simply "buy" their way into the modern world. Rather they want to buy the appearance of being modern.
> 
> I met a Saudi expat who wanted to play the guitar, so he went down to the music store and bought the most expensive one available. 3 weeks later when he wasn't Jimi Hendrix II he gave up and sold it at a fraction of what he paid. That is what you are dealing with.
> 
> If you were ever involved in setting up an EMS system from nothing before you should realize that success is very small victories. You don't just show up and things are how you want.
> 
> So a group of westerners thought they were going to go to Saudi, make a bunch of money and work in a dream environment? You complain of your treatment from a culture that is the antithesis of yours? Did you think you were going to go there and be treated well or even fair?
> 
> When you got there and your passport was taken and/or you needed an exit visa did you realize your freedom to move (ie: escape) was virtually nothing?
> 
> Did you call the Embassy and ask questions before you went? (or even look at the webpage on Saudi) did you visit the country prior to agreeing to move there? Did you have a lawyer specializing in their laws and customs review your contract? (not that it matters since you have no rights as a non citizen.) Did you see how they treat their own people and think you would be treated better?
> 
> When one agency couldn't do in 22 days what was being done by another in 5did it seem too good to be true? Was what they were offering you in compensation too good to be true?
> 
> Often you will find when something is too good to be true, it is not true.
> 
> When in less developed nations than the West did it occur to your that the margin of acceptable danger and losses was not the same as in the West?
> 
> Did it occur to you they would rather lose 1000 or more of you to one of their own?
> 
> Did it occur to you that in less developed nations, the natives live by the rule looking out for themselves and getting ahead by any means neccesary?
> 
> When the word of what is going on got out somebody over in Saudi needed to save face. They started replying to the posts here. He or They probably have no intention of helping you. It looks like a front.
> 
> If you worked for a contractor, then your contractor owes you money, SRCA or the Saudi govt. doesn't owe you anything. subcontractors in the US are notorious for ripping off people.
> 
> There is also no shortage of American companies, contractors, or experts going abroad and ripping people off. Especially in that part of the world. You think the Saudis ripped you off. They think (probably rightly so) the contractor ripped them off an nobody is going to give any ground to the other.
> 
> All this back and forth is just sour grapes. You got ripped off. You are lucky to have managed to make it out of there at all. Learn from it, don't repeat the mistakes. if you feel altruistic warn others not to make your mistakes.
> 
> It's over and you are not getting your money, whether it is owed to you or not. (If you were hired by AA it looks to me like AA owes you the money, best of luck getting it from them.)
> 
> Being called an infidel could almost be a compliment. Most Central Asian's
> refer to westerners as "cockroaches." How do you treat a cockroach?
> 
> This is almost as dumb as that 17 year old girl killed in Aruba. Clearly she didn't know enough or have the skills to survive in a foreign land. The world is not one big America. The rules are not the same.
> 
> It's probably good less than 20% of Americans have a passport.



I suppose many of us were interested in helping to establish a valuable service to the people of Saudi Arabia. The money was okay,but not fabulous. I did read the warning from the web page. However there was no other information that I found that lead me to believe that the Saudi government was not serious about solving the high trauma death rate in their country. My goal on these forums is to get the word out to other folks that believe the recruiting lines of the SRCA. Unless we tell the story people keep going into a trap. If I had half of the information on this thread I would not have gone for five or even ten times the money. When I responded to an emergency my attention was on safety and my patient and how I can help them. Everything else I didn't worry about. I had no visions of grandeur, just visions of building something that would help people. I guess that was my mistake. I can live with that and have no shame when I shave that guy looking back at me in the mirror every morning. I can't live with not warning people! Thanks for your post and thoughts because it will give others more to consider before they make a decision to go or stay home.


----------



## Veneficus

2easy4u said:


> I had no visions of grandeur, just visions of building something that would help people. I guess that was my mistake.



The only thing the powers that be is Saudi care about is remaining the powers that be. (it comes with a rather lavish income)

If they have to spend a few million and sacrifice a few westerners to pretend like they actually care about people in addition to telling everyone the reason the average guy in the country has so little is because the west takes it all and use religion to brainwash or crush any dissenters, that is just the price of doing business.

It is how they keep the massess from showing up at the palace with ropes, torches, and pitchforks demanding to no longer live in poverty or oppression.

If you seriously think they care about their word, honor, life, or any other western value, you are very mistaken. 

Another good resource that can teach you about what you are potentially getting yourself into is the anthropology dept. at your local college.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

AhmedAlmaziad said:


> I already identified my self when I registered in this website. I put my real name here. What is important here is for you to prove that SRCA owes you money.
> 
> Why are you so interested in my position? Do you want your money or my position?
> 
> You are the one saying that SRCA owes you money! I didn't ask for your bank account, all I asked is to email me with your side of the story and the amount of money you think SRCA owes you. You want your money you email me, I am not gonna email you. *You have to reach to get answers not wait for answers to come to you Mr.*
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Mr Ahmed,
> 
> You came on this forum to give another view? But you wont answer a simple question. You offered to look into the case of whether I am owed any money although you dont state what job you have in the SRCA so why should I or anyone else waste time sending you private details. For all I know you could be the office tea boy. I can give you some relief that your position does not interest me one bit.
> 
> If you want to know what is owed go through the payroll figures and see what my salary was and how much was deducted on several occassions. Or do you not have access to this information? And to be honest I know I will never see the money and am not holding my breath waiting for it!
> 
> Dont worry Mr Ahmed, my hatred is not for the good Saudi people that mean well and i call friends. It is for the ones that were to scared to answer a phone call, an email or open their office door as they prefered to hide and not have to justify thier actions.
> 
> If you are so cosy with Dr Rashied ask him why he didn't have the balls (an Australian saying) to contact me directly and explain to me why my contract was not being renewed? Why could he not as a professional manager sit face to face and give me the courtesy? I saw it many times when Saudis do not want to answer anything they hide put up a barrier and will not face you and admit any wrong doing.


----------



## DesertMedic

Well I can appreciate what you are saying...(kind of) but you act like all involved went into this blind and you don't know our backgrounds. I have been in the mid-east working for 7 years now and Saudi was the 5th country in the region for me so I had some idea of what I was getting into...(I thought), but what went on behind the scenes there even threw me for a loop. It is by far the worse example of corruption I have seen since working overseas. It just made no sense at all. I understand that if they don't pay there is nothing you can do but at the same time you sign a contract and have to take people at their word because that is all people have. I actually took a pay cut to go there so it was not about the money for me. I was bored of sitting around as an insurance policy just in case someone got hurt. The majority of these threads are to warn people of the corruption that goes on there. And of course just because we got screwed by which ever side (it's hard to tell anymore) doesn't mean we will just forget about the month salary we are owed and right it up as experience. Wether we need the money or not it is a matter of principle and I personally do not like the fact of people sitting over tea laughing about how they put one over on me. I am really curious where you get the information of asians referring to us as cock roaches since my wife is asian and I speak the language fluent enough to know when someone is putting me down. I don't know if you meant to come across in a demeaning way but I have been offended by your post the most!!


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*are you admitting to breaking a law in your country then?*

It sounds like it to me, but I am not a lawyer.
"Yes, AA hired 22 Medics in a short period. By the way, I applied for your Governement Visit Visa because I was told to do so.
This process didn't take more than a week to get you here, but you know that you have to go for a visa run every now and then. You can't open a bank account, no driving license, no other benefits. It's stated in your visa that you weren't permitted to work and you even can't ask for you salery because you weren't permitted to work. I'm sure you know this already.

The other process will give you all benefits above even though it takes a longer period to get it.

I understand your feeling and that's was why you call our pro paramedics (slaves) I would leave this to one of them who is a member of this website to reply to you."

You brought us over here on a visitor's visa and knowingly allowed us to work in your country. As it stated on my visa not permitted to work. Still your department allowed for 77 people to "WORK for the SRCA SOP group" in a sense Illegally, or did it not matter since we were getting the job done?
you can send me a personal email if you realized you just confessed to breaking the law schemp001@aol.com


----------



## Veneficus

DesertMedic said:


> Well I can appreciate what you are saying...(kind of) but you act like all involved went into this blind and you don't know our backgrounds.



It is not about backgrounds, the duplicity of Saudis is quite well known. I am not speaking of Middle East countries in general but specifically of Saudi. If such massive exploits are known here, it must be commonly known in all countries of the region.




DesertMedic said:


> I have been in the mid-east working for 7 years now and Saudi was the 5th country in the region for me so I had some idea of what I was getting into...(I thought),



I understand it is a negative experience. That your previous experiences were better. But as you said, you thought you knew what you were getting into. If it could happen to you with your experience, it certainly can happen to anyone else or a first timer. 




DesertMedic said:


> but what went on behind the scenes there even threw me for a loop. It is by far the worse example of corruption I have seen since working overseas. It just made no sense at all.



I think it makes perfect sense. In my travels I have found that one of the things most Americans (especially tourists) fail to understand is that in oppresive countries (whether it is in Asia, Europe, Africa, or anywhere) The low guys on the totem pole try to make it up a few steps then they do all they can to fleece for personal gain without exposing themselves to getting caught.

In anycase, being able to blame a foreign worker to make off with some cash or nepotistic deals is the norm. It is also why you are shut out of information loops and nobody answers questions. The more information people have the more likely the corrupt party is to be exposed. 




DesertMedic said:


> I understand that if they don't pay there is nothing you can do but at the same time you sign a contract and have to take people at their word because that is all people have.



You are superimposing your value of somebody's word on a completely different culture. be careful not to do that. I have been to many countries, and I will point out that even the US State Dept. website states in Saudi that verbal agreements and side letters are not considered binding. Not just in Saudi do local people take advantage of that. 

No matter the country, if verbal agreements are nonbinding, the native parties think you are a fool for accepting somebody's word. Basically the impression is you deserve to be ripped off for not being smarter.




DesertMedic said:


> The majority of these threads are to warn people of the corruption that goes on there..



I have followed this thread for some time, the last few days was all about crying about being ripped off. I was tired of it so i figured I would just call a spade a spade in a nonpolitically correct way. 



DesertMedic said:


> And of course just because we got screwed by which ever side (it's hard to tell anymore) doesn't mean we will just forget about the month salary we are owed and right it up as experience. Wether we need the money or not it is a matter of principle and I personally do not like the fact of people sitting over tea laughing about how they put one over on me.



ROTFL.
It doesn't matter what you like, or what you think you are owed. You were screwed. You have no recourse. You put yourself in a position by your own admission you were not expecting or ready for. If it makes you feel better they probably aren't laughing at you because they are too busy setting up the next group.

I have been ripped off before when I didn't know what I was getting into, trust me, let it go. You will never get satisfaction. whether you desperately need the money or not, it is gone. The only people who are stressing over how you feel is you and those close to you. with all there is to worry about, why worry about something past that can't be changed?




DesertMedic said:


> I am really curious where you get the information of asians referring to us as cock roaches since my wife is asian and I speak the language fluent enough to know when someone is putting me down.



Which Asian language?  I consider a few Pakistanis, a few Indians, a greater number of Turks, and even a handful of Egyptians my good friends. I also have an American friend working in Paris helping women escaping husbands or refugees from Central Asia. (particularly the middle eastern countries) Tomorrow I will ask specifically what the word is and post it here, but it translates to "cockroach" and it is often used when mocking westerners, especially when discussing the selling of nonmuslim women.



DesertMedic said:


> I don't know if you meant to come across in a demeaning way but I have been offended by your post the most!!



I meant to be blunt. Like I said, the rest of the world is not an extension of America. You navigate it on local terms and at your own risk. As I pointed out, not being aware or prepared can cost you your life. I can tolerate only so much crying about losing a few dollars. Especially when it is rather minimal compared to what could have been lost.

Every year I see a new batch of Americans show up on their first overseas trip. I have probably seen just about every mistake that could be made. It is my experience that most Americans I encounter outside of the US really are ill prepared and completely out of their league once they leave North America. It is safer and better for them to stay home.


----------



## calimedic

*Offensive*

I think many of Veneficus observations are right on. What I find extremly annoying is your anti-American statements. Not everyone complaining about their treatment while in Saudi are American. I am an American who has worked in Saudi  for ten years including for the SRCS more than seven years ago. I have lived and worked all over the Middle East for the last 15 years.

I have worked with expats from every country. I find it offensive you say "Americans should stay home", or what a "good thing it is only 20% of Americans have passports". I have seen idiots over here in the Middle East from every western country. I dont think Americans can be singled out. I tend to judge people by the strengh of their character not their country of birth. To do that, as you have done shows a very closed and small mind, and a lack of character on your part. I wont ask you what country you are from because I dont judge people by their country of birth. I am much more open minded than that.

Patrick Tom Notestine
Author: Paramedic to the Prince


----------



## Veneficus

calimedic said:


> I think many of Veneficus observations are right on. What I find extremly annoying is your anti-American statements. Not everyone complaining about their treatment while in Saudi are American.



It is not Americans complaining about Saudi that is the point of my statements Americans should stay home. 

It has been my experience that a vast majority of Americans who travel overseas who have no exposure to any culture outside of the US seem to be ill prepared for the rigors of foreign travel. (Fortress America does not just isolate people militarily) 

Are there american's capable of traveling without being a danger to themselves? Sure there are. Are there people from other nations who are probably better off at home? Of course.

But I am hard pressed to find people from smaller nations who have no/only on tv exposure to other countries/cultures. Because they are not isolated by both an ocean on both sides and an unfounded ethnocentrism, (which boarders on ultranationalism, be honest, how many Americans have you met that think america is the best at everything and can do no wrong?) routinely interact with other cultures, and travel a great deal more outside of their homeland.





calimedic said:


> I have worked with expats from every country. I find it offensive you say "Americans should stay home", or what a "good thing it is only 20% of Americans have passports". I have seen idiots over here in the Middle East from every western country. I dont think Americans can be singled out.



Would it be more acceptable to say "The average American should stay home?" 

Truthfully, I have met expats from many countries who probably should have stayed home. But like I said, in my experience, It is people from the US that create the most difficulties. 



calimedic said:


> I tend to judge people by the strengh of their character not their country of birth. To do that, as you have done shows a very closed and small mind, and a lack of character on your part.



It is not about judging individuals on the strength of character, it is about the study of culture. Which includes grouping people of similar value and behavior together. All groups have outliers, but there must be a group. (in biology it is called taxonomy all ursoids or ungulates are not the same, but they are all classified such.) It is the only way to study culture. (which at its most base level is the identification of social inclusion that share home range resources, most often food, shelter, and reproductive rights)  I don't pretend it is nice to hear or politically correct, but what makes my observations accurate (as you say) is applying the same anthropological methods to modern groups as to studying Ancient Egyptians, Aztecs, Romans, Goths, babalonians, or whatever ancient culture is in style at any given time.  




calimedic said:


> I wont ask you what country you are from because I dont judge people by their country of birth. I am much more open minded than that.



My ancestory is diverse but i use the same method to study them all.  I have found the discipline of biological anthropology to be intergral to medical practice. 

Usually whatever group finds themselves the object of investigation r observation is insulted. People don't like to be stuudied like other primates. They like to think they are special or somehow better.

Is it ok to objectify Saudi culture and not American?


----------



## akflightmedic

I have to agree with you.

As an American who has worked overseas for many, many years...we are without a doubt the most ill prepared for interactions with other cultures.

There is such a strong sense of entitlement and superiority everywhere we go. One of my favorite past times when sitting in airports or lounging at roadside cafes or restaurants is playing the game of "Spot the American". It is never difficult actually, but fun none the less.

Even our basic body language and tone of voice is so "noticeable" to everyone but ourselves. There is never a sense of accommodation either and by that I mean the old saying of when in Rome do as the Romans do. We expect everything and everyone to be like us and I am surprised at how many of us do not realize how hated or made fun of we actually are when abroad. I find it funny when Americans become offended that someone makes a joke at their expense, especially when it is their first realization that "hey these people don't like me or my country".

I have been embarrassed or ashamed rather on many occasions by the behavior of my fellow country men. It is absolutely ridiculous! I have even gone so far as to say I was Canadian when asked by a waiter when some idiots were carrying on.

I whole heartedly agree that it IS a benefit to the world that so few Americans travel abroad and have no intention of ever doing so. (said in sarcasm because I feel we all should leave our country at least once to gain perspective). We simply can not appreciate what we have or do not have when we stay isolated.


----------



## MMiz

From this point on I ask that members who have comments regarding their interactions with the Saudi Red Crescent Authority through Action Aviation post in the Action Aviation and Saudi Red Crescent Authority thread.

As always, if you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please don't post.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Hello everyone, I just wanted to update everyone that I finally received everything and mailed it all off. My visa paper work arrived in DC today. Should not be much longer now! 
Hope to see some of you soon!


----------



## Yurong

schulz said:


> Hello everyone, I just wanted to update everyone that I finally received everything and mailed it all off. My visa paper work arrived in DC today. Should not be much longer now!
> Hope to see some of you soon!



Me Too!!! Well almost. I received my FED-Ex package last week and just have to get my medical knocked out this Wednesday. I should then have everything together to get off to DC. I have to take a final course this July So I wont be able to leave until the middle of August, but I am started to think this thing might actually happen


----------



## HubblyBubbly

Yurong said:


> Me Too!!! Well almost. I received my FED-Ex package last week and just have to get my medical knocked out this Wednesday. I should then have everything together to get off to DC. I have to take a final course this July So I wont be able to leave until the middle of August, but I am started to think this thing might actually happen



Good luck. Make sure you have at least 3 months worth of bills paid and enough to live on as your salary may be slow in getting to you. Also be mindful of Ramadan and Haj coming up. This will further delay anything official being done as the Saudis pretty much such down...everything! 

For an EMS provider this is shocking especially as it is an essential service in most parts of the world.


----------



## Yurong

I have a couple of questions. I remember seeing a post answering these somewhere around 40-50 pages ago, but I have spent the last 40 minutes trying to find it and i cant get it on the search... sooo...

I am working on the Visa requirements and wanted to ask about a couple of things, I would really appreciate answers from people who have actually completed the process!

*5. Certified and notarized COPY of university degree or college diploma.*

Do I just need to make a copy of my diploma, add a notary statement to the bottom and get it notarized?

*8. Police report with detailed information about your criminal record*

Does this need to be from the FBI or the State police?

*11. Verification letter from a professional liscencing body that states your license to practice is in good standing.*

Should I contact registry and request a letter?

thanks for the help!


----------



## 2easy4u

*Know what your getting into*

This thread is about getting information about working in Saudi Arabia and for the SRCA. I cannot stress enough for anyone wanting to go over to read this thread from the first to the last page. To not notice the difference in the posts of those who did it and made it out would be very unwise.


----------



## alelkins

Yurong said:


> I have a couple of questions. I remember seeing a post answering these somewhere around 40-50 pages ago, but I have spent the last 40 minutes trying to find it and i cant get it on the search... sooo...
> 
> I am working on the Visa requirements and wanted to ask about a couple of things, I would really appreciate answers from people who have actually completed the process!
> 
> *5. Certified and notarized COPY of university degree or college diploma.*  Ask your handler at SRCA as the specific requirements seem to change..
> 
> Do I just need to make a copy of my diploma, add a notary statement to the bottom and get it notarized?
> 
> *8. Police report with detailed information about your criminal record*
> 
> Does this need to be from the FBI or the State police? * No. Local County will do fine.
> *11. Verification letter from a professional liscencing body that states your license to practice is in good standing.*
> 
> Should I contact registry and request a letter? No. Letter needs to be from a licensing body. NREMT is not a licensing body.
> 
> thanks for the help!



Additional info:

"Housing" is a large, upscale hotel room but there is no kitchen or laundry facility in the room. Meals are provided as follows:

Lame breakfast buffet daily. Lunch and dinner (2-3pm and 8-9pm) are cooked off-site, plated on plastic, then delivered to the hotel and brought via cart to your room. The menu is non-negotiable and is primarily Egyptian fare.

There is no reloaction bonus paid on arrival as some offers have indicated.


----------



## HubblyBubbly

alelkins said:


> Additional info:
> 
> "Housing" is a large, upscale hotel room but there is no kitchen or laundry facility in the room. Meals are provided as follows:
> 
> Lame breakfast buffet daily. Lunch and dinner (2-3pm and 8-9pm) are cooked off-site, plated on plastic, then delivered to the hotel and brought via cart to your room. The menu is non-negotiable and is primarily Egyptian fare.
> 
> There is no reloaction bonus paid on arrival as some offers have indicated.



At least the previous management were making progress and had us in nice western compounds and paid housing allowances. 

Seems like the current are repeating history! When we started in 2007 (now mid 2010) we had the same setup. Hotel/apartment accommodation and food from the local lebanese/egyptian take away. 

If your offer or contract states a relocation allowance, or any allowance fight for it. As was previously identified there are some in the SRCA that will pocket what you are owed whilst they give you the run around so that you give up in the end.


----------



## rhousewa

*DR Rashid, SRCA*



HubblyBubbly said:


> If your offer or contract states a relocation allowance, or any allowance fight for it. As was previously identified there are some in the SRCA that will pocket what you are owed whilst they give you the run around so that you give up in the end.



I arrived in KSA with a signed Official Job Offer on 3/11/10.  In meetings with DR Rashid on 4/6 and again on 4/13, DR Rashid agreed that those of us who had not received our relocation allowance would get the relocation allowance once we signed our contracts.  I signed my contract on 4/18 after asking the SRCA representative, Hisham Al Mubaireek twice, "when would I receive my relocation allowance?"  I was told tomorrow if I sign the contract today, I signed the contract.  The next day I reported to the SRCA office to get my check and was told I was not eligible for the relocation.  I showed my Job Offer and was told that the man who signed that doesn't work for SRCA any longer.  I said I had emails that told me I would get the relocation with my first pay and I was told that the people who told me this had no authority to say that.  I told SRCA that the relocation was offered on their web site and they said they would change the web; I saved the web before they changed it.  I asked for a meeting with DR Rashid because he offered and promised the relocation in meetings the previous two weeks...  I was told that I didn't make it clear to DR Rashid that I lived in SRCA housing or he would not have offered the relocation.  I told DR Rashid that because of the changes in the Job Offer and what he and his staff promised me if I signed my contract that I would like to be released from my contract and leave KSA.  That was the night of 4/19 and that was the last time DR Rashid would see me and yes I asked for meeting with DR Rashid after 4/19 and he refused the meetings.
I spent the next week being told by SRCA staff that I should reconsider my resignation, that I could make more than the relocation in overtime.  I said I would not stay with SRCA unless SRCA provided me what they promised.  On 4/21 I reported to Ahmed Al Maziad's office and discussed the change in the relocation allowance.  Ahmed stated that “relocation was never part of housing allowance” and I should get the relocation allowance like the other western paramedics that had been brought to KSA this year by SRCA.  Ahmad stated he would meet with DR Rashid that day and call me tonight with an answer about this issue.  At 21:41 Ahmed Al Maziad phoned me and said that DR Rashid would not pay the relocation allowance unless I moved off SRCA supplied housing and I should take the weekend to reconsider my resignation.  On 4/24, 4/25, 4/26, 4/28, 5/1, 5/2, I was told that my exit visa and final check were being process.  On 5/3 I was told that my check and visa were sitting on DR Rashid's desk and DR Rashid will sign everything when he is ready???  On 5/9 I called Hisham Al Mubaireek to ask if I should expect a pay check today because today is payday.  Hisham told me that all my completed paperwork and check is still with DR Rashid and there has been no change with its status.  I then went to the US Embassy and reported my treatment to the Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief.  The next day Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief contacted DR Rashid and DR Rashid told her I was free to go but it was taking time to get my visa and final check completed.  DR Rashid told Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief that my visa and check would be ready the next day and could be picked up then, on 5/11.  I contacted SRCA on 5/11, no one I spoke with knew anything about DR Rashid's statements to Deputy Consul General, ACS/IV Chief and that DR Rashid was out of the country until 5/15.  On 5/15 nothing had been completed.  On 5/16 I was asked to report to the SRCA Office I spent 20 minutes helping Hisham Al Mubaireek fill out an exit visa, SRCA had all the information that I gave Hisham Al Mubaireek.  The visa form needed multiple signatures from SRCA which were obtained.  The next day, 5/17 I had my exit visa, I bought my own plane ticket and was out of KSA less than 24 hours later.
In my opinion, DR Rashid made it clear that he would sign me out when he was ready.  The pay that I should have accrued in the 66 days that I was detained in KSA, the same pay that I was told by many SRCA employees including DR Rashid, that I would be given, I have never received and on 6/5 I was finally told by Ahmed Al Maziad that I was not eligible for any pay or relocation allowance.
SRCA broke their contract with me.  Then DR Rashid pushed me to see if I would accept the changes that SRCA made.  After I refused the changes I got placed on hold until I got the US Embassy involved.  And after telling me that I would be paid, SRCA is rid of me and refuses to pay me anything.  I have to wonder if the 5 paramedics that have left KSA since their arrival starting 12/26/09 had similar experiences to mine and left for similar reasons?  
Can I prove my statements?  I have copies of emails, contracts, job offers and witnesses to statements made by DR Rashid and Hisham Al Mubaireek about paying relocation.  My proof appears to have been sound enough to satisfy the US Embassy and allow them to get involved.  For all that are considering joining SRCA, be aware that the visa you get in the USA will not get you out of KSA.  The exit visa you will need to leave KSA can only be processed by SRCA at their leisure.  I was told by the US Embassy when I met with them that they had a recent long history with SRCA.  It would be worth your time and money to contact them and see if they have had recent complaints about SRCA.  Are all the people in KSA as honorable as DR Rashid?  Not in my experience, DR Rashid was the only one who treated me with no respect.  The others I met in KSA treated me very well unless they were told what to do by DR Rashid.  I don't think I can hold someone at fault for doing what their boss tells them to do.  If you would like to discuss this PM me, I will pass on what I can.  As far as the quote above, if you challenge DR Rashid you will lose and he can make you very uncomfortable in the process.  Would I go back?  I will never again go to a place that I cannot leave without permission.  Good luck in your endeavors but be careful!


----------



## 2easy4u

*Thanks for your honesty*

I have been directing everyone and every where I network on the net to read all of the posts on these SRCA threads. There is a stark difference in the posts of those who have experienced the SRCA and are no longer in Saudi Arabia. I hope you will do the same so that people know what the real deal is.
Thanks


----------



## HubblyBubbly

It is clear the SRCA is making the rules up as they go. The above example is similar to most that have left experienced.

The question all should ask before signing anything, uprooting you family and leaving your current employer;

*How many expats have joined the SRCA since October 2007 and how many of those expats are currently employed by the SRCA? *

The answer will help you decide and thats without anyone influencing your decision.


----------



## alelkins

*My opinion...*

I've been here since April 15th. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have come.


----------



## rhousewa

*Honesty*

I think this last statement says it all…  I hope you get home when you want too and you and your family remain safe.  Take care…  Jeff


----------



## NWParamedic

*SRCA not willing to hire me?*

This was my final communication to SRCA HR today:

Dear sir,

This will be my last attempt at communicating with the SRCA regarding my employment.

I have completed the entire preliminary hiring process that includes:

10 previous employer verification letters signed and notarized 
3 professional letters of recommendation 
a passport 
a HS diploma 
college transcipts 
paramedic diploma 
all related paramedic certifications 
application 
photograhs 
medical/health questionaire 

This process has been on going since March 01, 2010 and all necessary documentation for a job offer was completed in the month of April. I have been promised a phone call on numerous occassions with that promise unfulfilled. I have not heard back from the HR department, with whom I communicated a lot with during March and April. I have been patient with the hiring process and understand the enormous task it must be to hire qualified employees from other countries. 

It has become clear to me that either there is no longer a need for paramedics in the kingdom or there is no need for my particular employment. I would appreciate the respect to have some form of final communication from the SRCA regarding my employment. You must understand that I am not willing to wait any longer for employment and again this will be my final communication.

Respectfully,

Bryan Brouhard


----------



## NWParamedic

*Application Withdraw from the SRCA*

After my final communication to the SRCA I did get a response. I have simply decided, after much research and consideration, that I would withdraw my application to provide EMS in the KSA. Here is my final commo with HR.

Dear Sir, 

Thank you for applying for the SRCA. I think there's a misunderstanding here , allow me please to explain some points if you don't mind: 

We really took your file and your documents seriously, you are one of the good candidates who applied for the SRCA. But the only thing that was holding the process was your certificate, It's not acceptable for the Saudi Health council, which is the authority that has the privilege to approve any medical certificate for any person who seeks job in Saudi Arabia. It would be very simple if you just brought a paper from that academy certify that this is a Paramedic diploma. But maybe it was for the best. 

We wish you the very best future. 

Sincerely yours,  

And I replied:

Ms. Rasha,

You are absolutely right. Your health council must confirm that all documents are valid, I completely understand. After 4 months of pre-employment document gathering and research into the KSA's EMS project, I have simply decided that it would be best for me to withdraw my application.

Thank you for all your time given to my consideration of employment and good luck with the noble cause of providing EMS' in the KSA. You have a well stated goal for the emergency health of your citizens and I will be keeping in touch with EMS professionals whom I have become friends with to check on their progress.

Respectfully,

Bryan Brouhard


----------



## NJFLGHTMDC

*sounds familiar alekins*



alelkins said:


> Yes, we have been warned. Yes, there is an ugly truth. No, SRCA isn't perfect. Some of us MAKE it a great time. We are too busy to be negative. We are not all lambs to the slaughter, as some would seem to believe. Some of us came here with middle eastern experience and knew what to expect. Others maybe not...


Just quoting on of your first statements as in you didnt want to take the warning! lol


----------



## pFox

That's the point of what a lot of sincere concerned expats that had worked in Saudi were trying to get across to people who wanted to go and work there.

It was simply a very strong desire to alert people to the reality of what it's really like to work there and deal with managements that have no scruples or ethics.

It's sad to see people learning about it the hard way and getting screwed over big time when you get there after spending a small fortune and jumping through so many hoops.

Sure there are many terrific Saudi's you'll meet, but at the end of the day you are a foreigner and they are Muslim Saudis. They are always right even when they are so blatantly wrong. 

In Australia, there is a push by recruitment agencies to get paramedics to work over there. I hope they are watching this site and taking note of what has happened to people who have gone.


----------



## alelkins

*Warning...*



NJFLGHTMDC said:


> Just quoting on of your first statements as in you didnt want to take the warning! lol



I took your warning, as well as everyone elses. I also read everything I could find on the matter, then made as informed a decision as I could at the time based on available intel. There is no substitute for personal experience, however. Regardless, I stand by my decision to come here based on the information I had at that time. Additionally, I am here now and am making it a positive experience. I am making some of the best money of my career, learning much about another culture, traveling, and making new friends. I have seen and done things most others never even dream of. One simply has to come to terms with the fact that everything here is subject to change on a whim. I have a better understanding of how and why the SRCA and KSA operates in general which is helping me adapt. When in Rome...


----------



## goatlab

*Hems*

Just curious, has the HEMS program started flying with the new contractor?  Whatever  happen to the AA helicopter that was left on the hospital pad ?


----------



## alelkins

*Hems*

AA's MD 902 was still on the pad as of two days ago. Abu Dahbi Aviation is supposed to be providing 12 aircraft total on initial contract. 3, then 3, then 6. Rumors are we'll take first delivery within 3 weeks...inshallah...


----------



## SRCA

*SRCA PR Manager*

Dear All,



My name is Fahd Aljuraid the PR Manager for Saudi Red Crescent Authority Self Operation Program's International Recruitment Department. I would like to express that we are working on correcting the mistakes of previous management to ensure that our expats will receive the most accurate information possible in regards to any and all situations. We are currently retooling our website and would like you to visit it to see the information we are putting on our page. We are listening to our expat EMT's for their honest and critical feedback in order to improve the services we are offering to them as well as the citizens of Saudi Arabia. We plan on uploading a pre-orientation packet as to what is needed and what to expect before you arrive to Saudi Arabia and Orientation Arrival packet that will enable new employees to find their way around Riyadh and the Kingdom. Our goal at SRCA is to be able to allow are expat employees a smooth transition process into the Kingdom and the ability to enjoy their off-time while they are here. We at the Saudi Red Crescent Authority want nothing more than to prove to you the expat our commitment to creating a better EMT service for the Kingdom and a partnership with you the expat in developing our young Saudi EMT's. Please exercise patience with our dedicated CEO Dr. Rasheed Al-Eid and employees of the Self Operation Program as we try to build a solid foundation for the present and the future of the EMT service of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I urge you to send me any and all emails regarding any questions or concerns  you have in regards to coming to the Kingdom or applying to the Saudi Red Crescent or any company for that matter in the Kingdom as I want you the expat to know that there is an open line of communication ready to hear your concerns. My email is *(email address removed).*



best regards,

Fahd Aljuraid


----------



## MMiz

This thread has run its course.  We've had a multitude of people contribute to this thread, and hopefully it provides some insight into working with the Saudi Red Crescent Authority.  

I'm going to close this thread, though you are welcome to start a new thread only if you have questions or new and relevant information directly related your experiences to the SCRA.


----------



## ffemt8978

MMiz said:


> This thread has run its course.  We've had a multitude of people contribute to this thread, and hopefully it provides some insight into working with the Saudi Red Crescent Authority.
> 
> I'm going to close this thread, though *you are welcome to start a new thread only if you have questions or new and relevant information directly related your experiences to the SCRA*.


Quoted and highlighted for emphasis.


----------

