# Ballistic (bullet proof) vests for EMS use



## lonestarchamp

The service I work for is currently looking to buy new ballistic vests. If you use a vest at work what brand and how do you like it? What are the pros and cons you have found with your brand?


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## KEVD18

nothing is bulletproof. resistant sure, but not proof. you need to adjust your language to be realistic. if you consistanly refer to your vest as bulletproof, you'll eventually believe it. now put yourself in the position where someone is shooting at you. my vest is only resistant, so im not taking any chances. but your is bulletproof, so your immune to being shot. see where im going with this...

anyway, second chance makes a hell of a vest. point blank is great too. dont discount galls vests, as the ballistic panels are actually made by point blank.

its all about comfort. if its not comfortable, you wont wear it. its best to be fitted by a professional uniformer to assure proper fit.


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## lonestarchamp

Yes I am aware they are not BULLET PROOF. That is why I call them ballistic vests. I put the bullet proof (in the title) because that is how most people know them. If you want to get all technical on me don't give me a lame lecture, give me technical facts. What vest does your service use? What model number? What other vests have you used? Why do they like brand x vs brand y? How much experience do you have with them? THAT is the kind of info I am looking for!


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## Topher38

Lonestar if I could give you any input I would. And I know what you mean by bulletproof. I dont know why people have to be so anal sometimes COUGH COUGH. Im sure someone in here can answer your questions just be patient bud =]


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## KEVD18

anal, or accurate?

my vest is a second chance monarch lev II. also own a galls(point blank) stab vest. i dont know the model number. both are very comfortable(as armor goes). 

if your going to hang around on this or any other forum, you need to develop a bit of a tougher skin. i answered your question the first time, along with an adjustment in your vernacular in an adult manner. other would have laughed at you and called you names for making a ignorant rookie mistake. i just tried to help you, but you decided to be an idiot about it. your loss.


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## Jon

I've got to take KEVD18's side on this one. I would have said the same thing. As he said, if you call it something you know isn't right, you might just come to believe it. Additionally, when you aren't accurate, you perpetuate the improper phrasing.

I've got a Gall's Lite series, Level IIA. I don't wear it as much as I should, because the fit isn't quite right for me. It will be 4 years old this year, so I need to start thinking about getting a new one, but I'm trying to loose weight, and then will get one custom fitted.


The question is - will they be "one size fits most" and kept on the trucks, or is everyone issued one?


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## Topher38

KEVD18 said:


> other would have laughed at you and called you names for making a ignorant rookie mistake. i just tried to help you, but you decided to be an idiot about it. your loss.




haha...

He asked you for some information on some ballistic vests not a small class in grammar.


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## NJN

Topher38 said:


> haha...
> 
> He asked you for some information on some ballistic vests not a small class in grammar.



I am deeply troubled by the lack of proper grammar usage in common conversation. My area has two very different groups: The low income minorities who live in or around "The Projects" and the upper middle class area. I, personally, consider it two different languages: the Ebonics and regular English. As for vests i have no experience in this area, but i have been told that with what happens in my area if i were to buy one i should get a III-A.


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## ffemt8978

Play nice, boys and girls....


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## EMT007

OP, are you looking for concealable vests or vests to be worn on top of a uniform?
We carry two vests on our rigs. They have a zippered front and some extended neck protection and are meant to go over uniforms, etc. They are bright blue and labeled "Medical". Unfortunately, I can't find the brand - i'll keep looking.


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## firecoins

I get annoyed by people who post responses to OPs that are sticklers for grammar, spelling or what is technically correct.  We all know ballistic vests are commonly referred to as bullet proof vests.  Relax and just answer the question.  

I quit another forum because I got arrogant condesending non-answers to a rather easy question. I aksed for a recommandation for a store in my area and got everything but that.


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## Emtgirl21

I have woren ABA (american body armor) and second chance.  Second Chance was a really nice vest and pretty thin. ABA did an awsome job of making sure it fit well.


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## russ899

*All sorts*

There are many conciderations as to what body armour (PPE) should be worn

Google "Body Armour" and you will see many suppliers.

For a male or female,  size,  inner or outer wear,  for what purpose,  comfort,  duration of the wear,  what areas do you want covered on the body,  attachments,  what balistics / threat should it reduce.
Does it have a trauma pad, kevlar, steel or ceramic plates etc..

There are many varients to the body armour

I wear one every day here, for many hours a day,  and it works, and Ive seen the proof that they work.
From blasts, multiple penetrating misiles (bullets),  knives etc.

Best advice is seek out a supplier and get professional advice.


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## medic8613

lonestarchamp said:


> The service I work for is currently looking to buy new ballistic vests. If you use a vest at work what brand and how do you like it? What are the pros and cons you have found with your brand?



What exactly are we talking about here? There are several kinds of body armor available. The two main types are under the clothes (although in many movies it is worn over the clothes...Jack Bauer does this often) and over the clothes (some call it a flak jacket...even though it _helps _ stop bullets, not flak...it may do that too...not sure)

One department I worked for had the "flak jacket" style vests on every ambulance, so if we were called to a shooting we could put the vest over our uniforms. It was marked in reflective letters to let people know that we are EMS and now SWAT...always a good thing. All the other places I have worked were on the BYOV (like BYOB, but with kevlar) system. 

I own a level IIIa kevlar vest I purchased from galls.com (galls brand vest). It's not the most comfortable vest I could have purchased, but given the area I worked in at the time, I would not have settled for level II (IIIa "protects" against _most _ handguns).

And no offense to russ899, but *a kevlar vest is not a stab vest and should not be expected to repel a knife* unless IT IS ADVERTISED AS BEING A STAB VEST AS WELL AS BULLET RESISTANT. Turning your body at the waist while being stabbed helps when wearing a vest, but a standard kevlar vest will not stop a knife. Unlike a bullet, a knife is sharp and can get in between the kevlar fibers. There are vests called stab vests made specifically to repeal a knife attack, and many corrections officers wear these.


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## russ899

No offence taken Medic8613, I actually read the comments, the suggestions and take into account the whole message.

However I did NOT state that kevlar vest was a stab vest, nor that it alone would be expected to repel a knife.

I said:
"There are many conciderations as to what body armour (PPE) should be worn

Google "Body Armour" and you will see many suppliers.

For a male or female, size, inner or outer wear, for what purpose, comfort, duration of the wear, what areas do you want covered on the body, attachments, what balistics / threat should it reduce.
Does it have a trauma pad, kevlar, steel or ceramic plates etc..

There are many varients to the body armour"

Saying that I do wear a balistic body armour here; that has kevlar as one of the components, it has steel plates, a trauma pad and Technoplast that also protects me against stabbing.
I wear it for about 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and at other times when required.

I agree with Medic8613  that any vest that will protect against stabbing and balistics needs to have the appropriate advertising and comply with the legal requirements.


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## paramedix

If I have to, I use my Kevlar front and back with level II plates. Weighs in at about 12kgs so a little bit uncomfortable, but its got space for all my equipment. Almost the same as my field jacket.


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## LE-EMT

This thread is a little old but I will add my impute and hopefully it will reach the intended parties.  As far as ballistic rated vests go well there are a million and one manufactures with a million and one options.  Being as I wear a vest ever day all day I have to agree with the statement that comfort is key.  If its not comfortable you will not wear it.  This is fact not speculation I have spent thousands of dollars finding this out.... Unfortunately.  Hopefully my misfortune will be to your advantage.  
Like several have said don't discount the cheap vests if you are not going to wear it daily then I wouldn't worry about spending the big bucks.  If you are just going to throw it on in a hot zone you can buy one for roughly 300 dollars threw galls.  If you are planning on wearing this daily then I would recommend a concealable vest of higher quality.  Such as PPI, Safari Land, or even Second chance.  Some one mentioned outer carriers or tactical vests.  these are very expensive and I would assume rather cumbersome while attempting to perform your duties.  They are not designed for mobility they are designed for maximum protection..  

Something else you will need to consider.  The ballistic rating on the vest you choose.  These are IIA, II, IIIA, III.  The two and two A will protect you from most small hand gun calibers with exception to your "hot" rounds.  The 3 and 3A well effectively protect from most all of your large and small handgun calibers.  Obviously you will want to do the research in more detail and all ballistic tables can be found when purchasing your vest.  
Also remember that vest can be quite heavy.  The larger of a person you are the more ballistic material that is needed to cover you.  Also remember the higher ballistic rating the vest has the more it will inevitably weight.  With that said you have to think about your climate.  If it is hot much of the year like it is here in AZ then you will want to consider that.  I personally have two vests.  The vest that I wear daily is a concealable IIIA which is very light very flexible.  The vest that I wear for Tactical situations is as well a IIIA with ceramic plates.... Used to stop rifle rounds much like you would see swat or the military wearing.  NOT for daily use.  
Just a few things to consider I hope that in my rambling you were able to learn something useful.


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## LE-EMT

OH my in reading more I found that some people are misinformed.  Ballistic vests DO NOT I repeat DO NOT protect from edged weapons attacks.  They make stab vests for that and most stab vests are rated for spikes not knives.  When I worked corrections I took a Knife like tool to the side the edged weapon went clean threw my "stab vest" and into my fleshy mid section.  You can buy ballistic vests that also have a stab rating but these are very expensive.   Also let me put it to you like this......... when in the field I am always more concerned with edged weapons attack then I am a Fire arms attack.  As you all may well know a man with and edged weapon who knows how to use it is quite possibly the most dangerous man in the world.  To effectively protect yourself from and edged weapon attack you will have to be the great white freaking knight with a suit of armour.


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## medicdan

Also a bit late on this... All ambulances in Israel carry two vests (and helmets)--  crews are told they are for bombings, shootings and otherwise dangerous scenes. We are required to wear them on all terror, or suspected-terror scenes, for fear of secondary explosives, as well as when on standby at the congress hall, etc. 
I dont actually know what the vests are made of, I dont ask, but I know they are custom made for MDA, and they are fairly secretive about the whole business.
Here are some pictures of a few of my friends in a vest and helmet (I know, they are poorly fitted in the pic)










Good Luck with your choice!


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## james

I have a IBA Interseptor body armor the was issued to me by the US Army and is rated to stop up to a 7.62mm round but its weighs alot and it costs alot. but it works, I have seen it stop 4 AK47 rounds.


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## fortsmithman

If I were to  purchase body armour i would get ballistic lvl 2 with level 3 spike protection for concealable.  For armour that is to be worn over the uniform I would use lvl 4.   Lvl 3a is the highest lvl that can be worn concealed lvl 3 and 4 cannot be.   Lvl 4 is rated to stop rounds from a .50 calibre.  But for the lvl 4 armour  would get it with a EMS tab for the front and back.


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## phunguy

Just a newbie question here.. Since personal safety is the #1 thing taught, can't help others if you are injured, and scene safety. Why would you enter a scene that required a vest as an EMT?


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## NJN

Because some scenes can go from apparently safe to oh S***, PUHA and get out of here. That is why some EMS providers want ballistic vests


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## Jon

phunguy said:


> Just a newbie question here.. Since personal safety is the #1 thing taught, can't help others if you are injured, and scene safety. Why would you enter a scene that required a vest as an EMT?


If the scene REQUIRES a vest... I'll be somewhere else until PD shoots the man with a gun, or SWAT says it's clear.

The reason lots of EMS personnel wear vests is that everything is fluid and can change with little or no notice, and a vest, coupled with good situational awareness is good life insurance.


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## NJN

Jon said:


> I
> The reason lots of EMS personnel wear vests is that everything is fluid and can change with little or no notice, and a vest, coupled with good situational awareness is *good life insurance*.



That and a ballistic vest costs a lot less than a funeral.


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## pa132399

*im awaking a dead thread on this*

i was just hired by a township ambulance that is on the south side of a city and they carry two on every ambulance i and was told that they have been used mainly for the response to shootings. they are over top of the uniform and have the ems tabs on the front and back.


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## Akulahawk

I've seen armor carriers that mimic the appearance of the uniform, so that when you put it on, it blends in with your uniform and therefore is somewhat concealed right out in the open. As others have indicated in this (old) thread, if you're responding to an event where a vest is essentially mandatory, you should consider waiting for Law Enforcement to secure the area before you enter. 

That being said, a Level II vest with protection against ice pick stabs is a good idea because sometimes the situation you're in can turn on you really quickly. The vest can also provide some protection to your torso in the event of a crash and you're unsecured... 

And a Level IV plate won't stop a .50 BMG, they're supposed to stop ONE shot of .30-06 AP (M2 Armor Piercing, specifically). A SAPI plate might stop that round, but it'll pass to a slightly lower standard... A .50 BMG round has a LOT more energy than that...


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## jjesusfreak01

Jon said:


> If the scene REQUIRES a vest... I'll be somewhere else until PD shoots the man with a gun, or SWAT says it's clear.



Cept SWAT is going to call you in and tell you its clear about 2 seconds after the first SWAT officer gets shot...


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## Fish

We don't use Ballistic vest, we just do lots of pushups/situps


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## angrynuni

Fish said:


> We don't use Ballistic vest, we just do lots of pushups/situps



lol.


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## McGoo

We follow the rule of thumb: hold your arm out straight in front of you while looking at the dangerous scene. Extend your thumb straight up. If you can still see the scene behind your thumb, you are too close.


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