# Middle School EMS Club Advice Thread



## MMiz (Dec 18, 2005)

I've thought about it, asked you for suggestions, and now am proposing a middle school EMS club.  I have the school and ambulance service's approval, now I just need to think of content and do some planning.  I have lots of questions that I'm going to offload on you over the next few months, and I hope you'll be able to provide me some direction.

*Club Goals:
*

To create an environment where  students may explore the career of EMS.  
 
Through exploration and  learning, students gain life-long skills and knowledge from the program,  and will have a greater understanding of the role of EMS in their community.  
 
Students are encouraged  to experience positive leadership from both adult and youth leaders  in the community and to seize opportunities to take on leadership roles.
 *Format:
* Students would meet for two hours per week after school.  Part of this time would be spent learning, part actually doing hands-on activities.

​ *Topics:
* 
Introduction to the EMS    system 
Basic First Aid 
CPR 
Use of AED 
Patient handling 
Patient assessment 
Communications 
Mass casualty incidents
*Special Considerations:* 


Age-appropriate (11-13 year olds)

Students may practice    splinting and *non-invasive *first aid on each other
Students will    be _supervised _and instructed on proper use of medical supplies and equipment. 
Certain training (CPR/AED)    carries mandated minimum course time requirements.
This club will find a way    to accommodate students with learning and physical disabilities.
 This is all I'll keep in this post, but I have many more issues or questions posted below.


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## MMiz (Dec 18, 2005)

*Getting Started*

Okay, now it's time for my questions.  I'm seeking *any* feedback or ideas you may have.  Some of you've known me for a long time, others only a few days.  This club means a *lot* to me, and I'd really like it to succeed.  Many of you have had experience in explorers and other similar clubs, which I have not, so I really need your advice on direction!


What do you think about the format.  I figured two hours once a week would be good.  It would allow us an hour or so for academic parts, and an hour or so to play around.  Any thoughts?   
What type of supplies should I be securing at this point?
I figure I want enough supplies so each "team" can run a drill that night.  Would a BLS jump bag work?

How many people should I aim for in the club?  10? 20?   
Do you think the topics we've covered are good / engaging?  Do you have any suggestions?   
Do I need to take anything else into consideration?
 I have a lot on my mind, and right now it's coming out in pieces.  Any advice you may have on this is appreciated.  If you've been in the explorers, and would be willing to chat via the room or IM, please PM me and let me know!  I'd love to hear your experiences of what did and did not work.

Thanks!


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 18, 2005)

I would also suggest sections about Scene Safety and BSI.  Looks good, and let us know how it goes.  I also agree that a BLS Jump Kit would probably suffice for equipment needed.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 18, 2005)

Maybe you can also get your local 911 dispatch center to come in and talk about the 911 system and EMD


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## MMiz (Dec 18, 2005)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Maybe you can also get your local 911 dispatch center to come in and talk about the 911 system and EMD



I thought of that, but our dispatch center is outsourced to a place 30-45 minutes away.  I thought it was awesome just walking through the place.  I'm thinking I may do a video.


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## Chimpie (Dec 19, 2005)

When it comes to First Aid training kits, let me know if I can help.  We have little training packages that we use for our first aid classes.


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## TTLWHKR (Dec 19, 2005)

Chimpie said:
			
		

> When it comes to First Aid training kits, let me know if I can help. We have little training packages that we use for our first aid classes.


 
Two cravats, a roller gauze, two gauze squares and a pair of gloves?

I bought five cases of them on ebay, had 2,000 Cravats...


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## MMiz (Dec 21, 2005)

Anyone have any ideas for cheap nitrile gloves?  I'm thinking latex wouldn't be a good choice.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 21, 2005)

MMiz said:
			
		

> Anyone have any ideas for cheap nitrile gloves?  I'm thinking latex wouldn't be a good choice.



Check your local hospital for expired/possible donation of vinyl or nitrile gloves.  You may be able to reuse them (for training purposes only) to help cut down costs.


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## Wingnut (Dec 21, 2005)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Check your local hospital for expired/possible donation of vinyl or nitrile gloves. You may be able to reuse them (for training purposes only) to help cut down costs.


 

Also check your local Veteranary offices, they're usually happy to help out.


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## TTLWHKR (Dec 21, 2005)

MMiz said:
			
		

> Anyone have any ideas for cheap nitrile gloves? I'm thinking latex wouldn't be a good choice.


 

SAMS Club sells 3 boxes/9.99


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## AnthonyM83 (Dec 24, 2005)

My only advice after looking at the outline is to not make it too rigid and structured. In EMT class, you have to set up the basics first and build up.

11-13 year olds don't have a really big attention span and might not want to stay after school instead of going to a friend's house if it's not "cool" and "exciting". You have to do half really cool and half basics each session.

Throw in "cool" topics...environmental emergencies tend to be cool to kids (snakes, poison ivy, spiders). Keep mentioning the upcoming cool events like ambulance visits. Bring in (appropriate) pictures for the different topics/injuries you guys are discussing. They needs hands-on, interactivity, visuals.


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## CaptainPanic (Dec 25, 2005)

How about having an atlas of injuries ranging from contusions to de-glovings, haha!


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## MMiz (Dec 26, 2005)

AnthonyM83 said:
			
		

> My only advice after looking at the outline is to not make it too rigid and structured. In EMT class, you have to set up the basics first and build up.
> 
> 11-13 year olds don't have a really big attention span and might not want to stay after school instead of going to a friend's house if it's not "cool" and "exciting". You have to do half really cool and half basics each session.
> 
> Throw in "cool" topics...environmental emergencies tend to be cool to kids (snakes, poison ivy, spiders). Keep mentioning the upcoming cool events like ambulance visits. Bring in (appropriate) pictures for the different topics/injuries you guys are discussing. They needs hands-on, interactivity, visuals.



So what are some _cool_ topics?  I have:

Full cardiac code   
Ambulance tours / info   
Opticoms / MIRT / MDT / Radio Communication   
Patient handling (backboarding, etc)   
MCIs
 Any other ideas?


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## Stevo (Dec 26, 2005)

they'll create _ideas_ for you MMiz, their minds churn a tad faster ...

good luck

~S~


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## Wingnut (Dec 26, 2005)

On the same thought, you should have the last half hour of the week leaving them "in charge". Dedicate the time to answering thier questions, going over whatever they want to. This will also show you thier progress and let you know where the heaviest interest is, and will encourage them to be more involved.


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## MMiz (Dec 26, 2005)

This would brought up before and immediately shot down.  I have to bring it up again because it just sounds like too good of an idea.

What about having students trained in CPR/First Aid act as first-response type units in the middle school?  They would have the CPR/First Aid/AED supplies along with an 800 MHz to EMS dispatch / units.

Thoughts?


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## Stevo (Dec 26, 2005)

good one.

we go down the elementary school every year. we've asked the group of kids in the past, after show & tell, who'd like to be the patient, and the rest play emt

they do a great job really, we set them up with anything non-invasive

 but it's all just play time to them, to have to deal with 250 lbs of coded janitor ...well...i just don't know what ages are able to cofront such mortality

~S~


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## Wingnut (Dec 26, 2005)

Stevo said:
			
		

> good one.
> 
> we go down the elementary school every year. we've asked the group of kids in the past, after show & tell, who'd like to be the patient, and the rest play emt
> 
> ...


 

It really does _sound_ like a great idea, but your dealing with ages that may not even really understand death yet (some I said, not all). Not to mention dealing with parents, some might freak out at the thought of thier 10 year old performing CPR on an MI. Playing with dummies and other kids is great practice and good learning but in no way prepares them for the 250lb janitor.

For example, my first code...I was 26, was no young chicken or very green in the field. I handled the code textbook, even got a sinus rythm back. The ER took over, I asked the medic how he thought I did...said I did great, then told him I HAD to have a cigg, I'd brb. Had a full on panic attack once I was alone and lit up. And of course I had to hide that I was having a panic attack from the medics, but I didn't calm down until I got back to the station with my xanax.

This is just a for instance, but definitely take it into consideration. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but be REALLY careful it's a delicate situation.

_(and I apologize, I didn't mean to shoot the idea down the first time)_


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## Mercedeslove (Dec 26, 2005)

Are you actually serious? 12-year-olds? That's a joke. A 12-year-old shouldn't touch an AED, yet alone preform CPR on anyone. They can't handle the mental stress of CPR. They also don't have the strength to handle compressons on an adult.

Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.

Most 12-years-old can't go to the movies alone, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to do anything like that.


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## Chimpie (Dec 26, 2005)

Mercedeslove said:
			
		

> Are you actually serious? 12-year-olds? That's a joke. A 12-year-old shouldn't touch an AED, yet alone preform CPR on anyone. They can't handle the mental stress of CPR. They also don't have the strength to handle compressons on an adult.
> 
> Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.
> 
> Most 12-years-old can't go to the movies alone, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to do anything like that.


Several times a year we have a "Babysitters Boot Camp".  Most of the students are between 11 and 14.  Every single one learns Adult, Child and Infant CPR, AED and First Aid.  Sure we have one or two a class that are too giggily and have a hard time taking it seriously, but the majority of them do just fine.

Also, remember, just by teaching them something doesn't mean that he has to certify them in it.  It can be just a demonstration or going over the skills, just like letting the kids play with the booster line off of an engine.  Just because they are spraying water doesn't make them a firefighter.


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## MMiz (Dec 26, 2005)

Mercedeslove said:
			
		

> Are you actually serious? 12-year-olds? That's a joke. A 12-year-old shouldn't touch an AED, yet alone preform CPR on anyone. They can't handle the mental stress of CPR. They also don't have the strength to handle compressons on an adult.
> 
> Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.
> 
> Most 12-years-old can't go to the movies alone, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to do anything like that.



Welcome to the forum!

If I'm the _lady_ you're referring to, maybe I should start by pointing out I'm a guy.

If a 12 year old is doing CPR on you, then chances are you're already dead.  Why not let them, possibly the most highly trained person, try to do something?

Some of my students are far too immature to do CPR.  Others I think could handle it fine.  I can still remember the _mental stress_ from participating in my first code, and I didn't even do CPR!  Most of these students will never do CPR, but I believe it is *never* too young to teach them.  My high school taught CPR to all 14 year olds, am I'm confident my 12 year olds could handle it too!

As a teacher I want to empower my students.  Whether it be providing the tools they need in their academic or personal lives, I feel it's important that I provide my students the opportunity to learn and take action.  I'm struggling with the idea of giving the students a $2000 radio for communication, but besides that I really think this idea will work.

What do you feel 12 year olds are really capable of?  Maybe we can work from there


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## CaptainPanic (Dec 26, 2005)

Also may I throw in that there was a study done that most children did CPR better and more correctly than the adults did. Guess its because children dont think- they just do it.

This was discussed here a while back I think but not sure.

-CP


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## TTLWHKR (Dec 27, 2005)

Mercedeslove said:
			
		

> Really lady it's a bad idea. I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.


 
What are fricken you nuts or something? I surely hope you aren't in EMS, b/c you have a poor outlook, IMO. 

No, don't do cpr on your younger brother who just drown in the pool, or your grandmother who just dropped with a heart attack, let them lay there and die.. What is going to be more mentally trying?
Knowing you did nothing, or that you did all you could?


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 27, 2005)

Mercedeslove said:
			
		

> I'd soon rather die then allow a 12-year-old to do cpr on me or a family member.
> .



YOU WOULD DIE ...if a 12yo didn't perform CPR or use an AED on you and they were the only ones around.

The American Heart Association has a program called CPR in the Classroom that is specifically designed for the middle school aged children, and it teaches them how to do all the steps of CPR correctly, including the use of an AED.


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## Jon (Dec 27, 2005)

Training the kids in CPR/First aid - good idea... I totally forgot about the CPR in the Classroom course.... great idea!

As for using middle school students as first responders - I'm not a fan of this idea.

At the high school level, having 16/17 year olds, espicially with EMT, acting as first responders isn't a bad idea. I draw the line at "what age can you ride on an ambulance."

So... teaching them first aid and CPR so they can help a teacher/principal/lunchlady who codes in front of them.... good. Having them respond to Shortness of breath, chest pain, and FDGB's on the playground - BAD.


Jon


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## Wingnut (Dec 27, 2005)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Training the kids in CPR/First aid - good idea... I totally forgot about the CPR in the Classroom course.... great idea!
> 
> As for using middle school students as first responders - I'm not a fan of this idea.
> 
> ...


 

I hope my post wasn't mis-read....I'm 100% with Jon...maybe he just said it better. I have already taught my kids cpr and they are 3 & 5, I don't expect them to save a life but I expect them to feel more comfortable knowing that mommy taught them to expect this and what should be done when it happens.  
I don't think anyone is too young to learn cpr, there's more to knowing it than chest compressions and ventilations. The only thing I disagree with is Expecting a 10 year old to standby at an event and be the first responder. But then again if I think it's ok for them to help a code that happens right in front of them if they are the only person trained in cpr, then I'm being a hypocrit. 
I don't know maybe it's not such a bad idea after all.

MMiz, I think what your best bet would be is to get to know the kids and make certain judgments by that.


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## emtbuff (Dec 27, 2005)

I agree that theses kids should be taught CPR  we teach CPR to the high school students al though they could really care less.  We have talked about switching over to the middle school kids.  You know the kids and you will know there personallity and maturity level and what is best for them.


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## Wingnut (Dec 27, 2005)

Hey Mmiz, you know your sessy in a dress, it's ok, open up to us...be free!^_^ B)


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## Jon (Dec 28, 2005)

I just spit my tea out on the keyboard ROTFLMFAO    :lol: :lol: :lol:  :blush:  :lol:


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2005)

Wingnut said:
			
		

> Hey Mmiz, you know your sessy in a dress, it's ok, open up to us...be free!^_^ B)



LOLOLOL.  Where did that come from?


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2005)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Training the kids in CPR/First aid - good idea... I totally forgot about the CPR in the Classroom course.... great idea!
> 
> As for using middle school students as first responders - I'm not a fan of this idea.
> 
> ...



Jon,

I agree with you on a lot of what you've said.  Here's my thought process, let me know where I'm going wrong.

Our EMS club is 20 people.  Each school day 4 students come in early and grab cheap FRS radios.  One of those students also grabs an 800 MHz that connects to EMS dispatch.

I'd have them sign up to "stand by" at sporting events and such.

The chances of them ever using their skills in school I see as almost being zero.  First, they'd have to be dispatched to the call.  What are the chances a admin or secretary would have a call they couldn't handle?  If at a sporting event or stand by, I would require that they actually have to be asked to assist with a call on an injured player or such.  If a guy passed out in the stands, that's a different story.

I see this club as being more about the process than the skill.  This is a really weird age for many of these students, and I think many would like the responsibility and feeling of empowerment.

What do you think?


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## Jon (Dec 28, 2005)

MMiz said:
			
		

> Jon,
> 
> I agree with you on a lot of what you've said. Here's my thought process, let me know where I'm going wrong.
> 
> ...


Matt,

It looks good on paper, but I have some concerns.

1. - is the 800 portable really needed? It will be going off all day for OTHER stuff, and will be a distraction. Also, they are big and heavy, and if some bully gets ahold of it, something could be said on public-safety frequencies that would put EVERYONE in hot water.

Solution - stick with the FRS radios, have a way to set them to "alert" when one radio keys up on that channel and code (CTCSS squelch with alert tone... common function). Have the Main Office or School Nurse have a "base station" portable that they use to summon the team, either before or after 911 is called. _Chimp and I both have experience in a similar system - if you need help, you call security, and security sends an onsite EMT / MFR, and if justified, calls 911 for an ambulance AND is prepared to lead the ambulance to the correct destination._

2. - I'm still not comfortable with the idea in general. I don't think most kids are mature enough, and don't think that First aid / CPR is enough training for a first responder. _HOWEVER, at work, there is a voluntary program for first responders where we have several volunteers per building who have basic first aid and basic adult CPR who Security calls in the event of a medical emergency, AFTER the EMT is on the way. Usually the EMT arrives first and the first responder does nothing, but they have helped (some more than others__) - so in theory, this has worked where I work. We activate the first responders by Phone. They also take care of the Corporate Incident reports when needed... I've got my own, more detailed one to write._

3. - Standbys at sporting events - I've only ever done one EMS standby at a Middle School sporting event, and that was a BIG 2-day wrestling tournament - not much happened. Perhaps they could assist the athletic trainers and learn some sports medicine? They would also have adult supervision in that case.

I still have questions with response in the school:

A - Is there any case where the responders would be activated but 911 wouldn’t be called?

B – What is the “typical” response time for the first and second due ambulance to your school?

C - Would there be adult supervision at all times?

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to give you a reality check....:blush:


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## hfdff422 (Dec 28, 2005)

For liability reasons, I would avoid allowing anyone that does not have a certification to do anything without the direction and supervision of someone who is certified. Even at that I would check with a lawyer first.


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2005)

Lots of ideas here.  I really do appreciate all of the feedback.




> is the 800 portable really needed? It will be going off all day for OTHER stuff, and will be a distraction.



I figured the 800 would be kept off until needed. In reality, the 800 wouldn't be able to reach our radio tower to actually transmit.  It would be so that the person could direct responding EMS units.  There would be no way I could have a student keep it on with 20 units on the road and the constant radio traffic.  I figured they could turn it on after they've been summoned.




> Also, they are big and heavy, and if some bully gets ahold of it, something could be said on public-safety frequencies that would put EVERYONE in hot water.



Good point.  Any ideas on how I can get around this?  I'm really trying to make this so the students have a sense of responsibility.  I would think the radio would give the student a sense of responsibility.  I didn't really think about what would happen if someone stole it.  I work at a school where I don't think it would be an issue.  Maybe it would be.

I understand the FRS solution and agree with it, but the 800 is more for a sense of responsibility and making the student feel important.  Okay, now i'm repeating myself here.



> I'm still not comfortable with the idea in general. I don't think most kids are mature enough, and don't think that First aid / CPR is enough training for a first responder. _HOWEVER, at work, there is a voluntary program for first responders where we have several volunteers per building who have basic first aid and basic adult CPR who Security calls in the event of a medical emergency, AFTER the EMT is on the way. Usually the EMT arrives first and the first responder does nothing, but they have helped (some more than others__) - so in theory, this has worked where I work. We activate the first responders by Phone. They also take care of the Corporate Incident reports when needed... I've got my own, more detailed one to write._



Students would respond after EMS was called.  Our response time in the area is usually under four minutes.  A unit is stationed less than a mile away on a large five-lane road.  I think this response to something else I read, but I'll stick it here.

I'm nnly teaching until the end of April.  After that I can't really tell you what would happen with the program.  While I may be able to continue to do the club after school, there would be little chance I taught at that school again.

Jon, when you see this in your head and don't think it would work, is this a workable idea, or something i need to scrap and re-evaluate?


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2005)

hfdff422 said:
			
		

> For liability reasons, I would avoid allowing anyone that does not have a certification to do anything without the direction and supervision of someone who is certified. Even at that I would check with a lawyer first.



So you don't think it would be a good idea to have AHA certified 11-14 year old respond to emergencies?  Chances are there would not always be an EMT on scene.  There would always be an adult of some time, but most of the time ambulances are not called for minor first aid issues.


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## MMiz (Dec 28, 2005)

Let me also say that my students would responding to minor first aid stuff, they would not be trained as MFRs.

Stubbed toes, cuts, bruises, they'd arrive, open the jump kit and pull out a Band Aid, maybe even a Bacon Band Aid.

Jump kits would have bandaging equipment and a CPR face mask.  No BVMs, BP cuffs, O2, or anything else.

Is that still too much Jon?


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 29, 2005)

Are you sure you want them responding as MFR's?  That entails some liability and other concerns.  Training them in first aid or advanced first aid might be a better alternative.


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## MMiz (Dec 29, 2005)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Are you sure you want them responding as MFR's? That entails some liability and other concerns. Training them in first aid or advanced first aid might be a better alternative.



I don't want them as MFRs, my kids could never handle it.  I want them doing CPR/First AID/AED.  The "Jump kit" would be bandaging with a penlight and face mask.  Think it's still a bad idea to have them as "First responders"?


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## Chimpie (Dec 29, 2005)

I know I'm plugging the Red Cross, but see if your local chapter has what's called "First Aid Station Teams".  If not, maybe you're just the person to get it started.  They usually have FAST Teams at some social events or school activities.  Most of the time they are manned by adults, but maybe for middle school activities you can set up a first aid tent with a few kids and an adult or two to supervise.

I wouldn't teach them anything above First Aid - A/C/I CPR - AED.


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## MMiz (Dec 29, 2005)

Chimpie,

I'm going to have to check that out.  Two questions:

1) They'd *only* be certified at the First Aid / AED / CPR phase.  Couldn't they respond to first aid-type stuff?

2)  What would be the best way to teach the six hour course?  Should I push for one day on the weekend?  Two days on the weekend?  Spend an hour each week for six weeks?  It's a six hour course, and I'd like them to have the information pretty quickly.  I also need to weigh that with my desire for them to enjoy the club and not just see it as "learning".


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## Stevo (Dec 29, 2005)

_certified shmertified_

soon ther will be aed's in malls, stadiums, schools, and ever so appropo McDeathburger joints

who here hasn't rolled up on the public totally screwing up a code?

WE in ems are no longer able to _choose_ whom are able,  have the brains god gave geese, or are compitent to perform cpr, sorry...

however if you view yourself as an ambassador for the AHA or ARC i'd say our existence would be a tad easier

they call the shots, in fact i hear rumour the AHA is (yet again) going to change the cric.

lord knows at 3 a.m. i'm probably 2 or 3 cric cycles behind now....

~S~


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## hfdff422 (Dec 29, 2005)

If this is a school sanctioned club with responsibilities at a school sanctioned event, then liability is a bigger issue than competency. People die or have aggravated injuries regardless of the competency of the care. I doubt a school is going to want an unsupervised student that it "sanctioned" or even allowed to be on scene with knowledge of thier activities to render care that is not supervised by a certified tech. Liability is the first thing on the minds of school administrators, even above the well being of their students.


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## Jon (Dec 29, 2005)

Chimpie said:
			
		

> I know I'm plugging the Red Cross, but see if your local chapter has what's called "First Aid Station Teams".  If not, maybe you're just the person to get it started.  They usually have FAST Teams at some social events or school activities.  Most of the time they are manned by adults, but maybe for middle school activities you can set up a first aid tent with a few kids and an adult or two to supervise.
> 
> I wouldn't teach them anything above First Aid - A/C/I CPR - AED.


I'm liking this idea. Espicially if it is backed by the Red Cross... this will also work great to go to the school administration.


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## Jon (Dec 29, 2005)

MMiz said:
			
		

> Chimpie,
> 
> I'm going to have to check that out.  Two questions:
> 
> ...


AHA has a "CPR in schools" program that takes Heartsaver CPR (basic) and divides it into several 45-minute segments so it can be taught in a classroom setting.


If all they would be doing is First Aid.... I'd start with taking the class... then looking to the students and the school nurse and see if THEY like the responder idea.

Also, how many times does the ambulance show up a year? My high school of 1200 had the ambulance called about 4 times a year during school hours. We flew folks out from Football and Soccer, and almost did for a Boy's Laccrosse player... but didn't do much in school except for a few OD's and a lunchlady having chest pain (with the food they cooked, it HAD to be indigestion) 

Jon


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## Wingnut (Dec 29, 2005)

MMiz said:
			
		

> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> If I'm the _lady_ you're referring to, maybe I should start by pointing out I'm a guy.


 
That's where my comment came from Mmiz, it's no fun if I have to explain it... 

Anyway, I read through this whole thing and Mmiz I personally think you have a good thing going here. A couple of issues I might be able to help with:

The 6 hrs for CPR, On your first meeting tell the kids all about it and let them decide how it works best/ scheduling with you, not everything has to be set in stone the first day, and maybe they'd be willing to do it on a "non-meeting" day. It's your first time doing this and thiers, relax a little, have your must haves and have nots, but get with the kids and see how they want to do things, it is about them after all...

Note: I just got a notice from my CPR instructor affiliation that the standards for CPR have changed again, we are to currently teach it by the old standards until we recieve the updated guidelines, and there's no ETA on that (of course <_< )

Also as far as the bully stealing the 800 radio, keep it in the nurses station and have one of the team be responsible for grabbing the radio during said emergency while the rest respond to the problem.

Good Luck Matt, it sounds like it's finally coming together!


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## Jon (Dec 29, 2005)

> Also as far as the bully stealing the 800 radio, keep it in the nurses station and have one of the team be responsible for grabbing the radio during said emergency while the rest respond to the problem.


 
I dunno - is it really needed? Any "important" suplemental info could be called in to 911, and anything else is just "one more thing" for everyone to worry about. Also... if they aren't "Trained medical personell" would they be qualified to give pt. information / status???

Hey - many fire departments - where most of the guys are MFR's or EMT's - they manage to screw up, tell paitents they don't need to go to the hospital (after the car, a Dodge Neon, shears off a telephone pole)...

Honestly - is it really needed, or are you having, :GASP: a Whacker moment?  


Jon


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## MMiz (Dec 29, 2005)

Jon,

You know I respect your opinion, and I'm really trying to make this work.

There are a lot of issues I'll need to work out with the school, but you're really against giving a kid an 800 to carry around? To me I see it as a reward for some of my students who are mature and responsible. They'd be elected _crew chief_ by their friends, and would be able to carry around the 800. There is no way the 800 would even be able to reach dispatch. It could at best reach responding units.

*Edit: This is a whacker moment!  I want the kids to find EMS as exciting as I do.  If I told them that Mr. M spends his days driving around 300 lb dialysis patients I'm not sure they'd want to be EMTs.  

* Jon, I need to make this work, and I need you to help me.  Maybe I'll just give them a radio with a dead battery <_<


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## Jon (Dec 30, 2005)

MMiz said:
			
		

> Jon,
> 
> You know I respect your opinion, and I'm really trying to make this work.
> 
> ...


:lol: ...... Forgive me for playing devils' advocate - I'm just trying to help you evolve the plan.


I think you've actually partially sold me on the whole concept!


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## BEorP (Jan 1, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> I dunno - is it really needed? Any "important" suplemental info could be called in to 911, and anything else is just "one more thing" for everyone to worry about. Also... if they aren't "Trained medical personell" would they be qualified to give pt. information / status???



I don't know how it is where you are, but here in Ontario, Canada I volunteer with St. John Ambulance where most of us are First Responders. We do stand by coverage at events and when we need to call an ambulance to take someone to the hospital the paramedics do not usually care too much about what we have to say.

Do you think the medics and EMTs in your area will care what 11-13 year olds only trained in SFA have to say about a pt other than what is call in to 911? (this is not meant as a rhetorical question)


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## bravofoxtrot (Jan 1, 2006)

Great thread and ideas. I'll try to get some of them implemented in our Future Medics Club at my high school. Thanks everyone!


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## MMiz (Jan 1, 2006)

bravofoxtrot said:
			
		

> Great thread and ideas. I'll try to get some of them implemented in our Future Medics Club at my high school. Thanks everyone!



Glad you found the thread useful!

What does your high school EMS club do?


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## MMiz (Jan 5, 2006)

After a talk with the principal I think the radios are totally out of the picture.  I need to work up a good plan and convince her :glare:


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## MMiz (Jan 14, 2006)

As many have probably noticed, I've been rather busy lately 

The club had it's first meeting last Thursday.  Around 50 people signed up and 30 or so showed up for the meeting.

We did a quick intro, decided to do the cpr / first aid training on the weekend, and then did an EKG, CPR, and backboarding demo.  That was followed by showing off the ambulance and playing with the lights and sirens.

It was disorganized but fun.  Now I need to work on the whole organization part.

It seems as though Jon's thoughts were right in line with the principals.  **Cough**Damn you Jon!**Cough*

*More later, but thanks for all of the support and suggestions


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## CaptainPanic (Jan 15, 2006)

Wow, Im glad to hear you had a good initial turn-out, hopefully as things progress along you might actually get one or two adopted members to join.

Good luck with the club and I hope it is able to continue in the future.

-CP


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## firegal920 (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm so glad this worked for you. I've been teaching the scouts (boys and girls) for years about first aid and cpr for like camping trips and such. Come to find out that one of my "beginner class" students is now taking medical classes in the hopes of being a doctor.  As for the first class being chaotic, that is normal and things will settle. Just remember not to let them get to far off of the course lol.


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