# 17 yo DOA



## MedicPrincess (Mar 6, 2007)

I worked an OT shift on the "slowest" truck in our county.  WTF ever....We ran a 17 yo, GSW to the throat.  Him and a couple friends were screwing around with someones guns.  One of the boys pointed his gun at the 17yo and it "somehow went off."  Very obviously DOA.

SO met me at the door of our truck to advise hes fairly certain the kids DOA.  He also let us know there are 2 rifles laying out.  One by a wall, another right in front of the kid.

He was laying in the living room, so I stopped at the front door.  No need to go in, it was very obvious.  Not much neck left.  Chunks of his neck laying about the living room.  SO had my partner go in, "just to be sure".  He gave me "the nod" and I advised dispatch of DOA, cancel our shift commander, cancel the helicopter.  As we both step out on the front porch to give our info to the SO deputy, another deputy comes up.  She asked if the house was clear.  He was like, "I don't know."  She asked him, "Well didn't you clear the house before you let EMS in?"  His answer.. "Ummm, No.":unsure: :blink:    So she tells us to go ahead and get off the porch...YEA...you think!!  Don't have to tell me twice.

As we go to leave the porch, here comes this little dog.  Hes just a running as fast as his little legs will carry him, straight for the front door.  My partner is closest to the gate, so he like jumps for it to shut it.  All I could imagine was this little dog hauling butt into that house and grabbing a piece of this kid that was laying all over the living room and running off.
Try and picture that.


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## Jon (Mar 6, 2007)

That is a shame.

And, as I'm sure Kip will say... a perfect example of why the scene isn't always safe just becasue the LEO's are there.

Finially... cases like this are why I was glad to have my Father train my brother and myself in firearms through Boy Scouts... I was taught at a young age the NRA's Big 3 rules:
1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
2. Always keep you finger off the trigger until ready to shoot
3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready for use (http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp).

As a child, I was NEVER allowed to own a BB gun or "toy" gun, and when I played with them at friend's houses, my parents would take them away if I pointed it at another human being.... guns aren't toys... and too many parents fail to educate their children about firearms... because they have never been exposed to them themselves.


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## BossyCow (Mar 6, 2007)

EMTPrincess said:


> ....As we go to leave the porch, here comes this little dog.  Hes just a running as fast as his little legs will carry him, straight for the front door.  My partner is closest to the gate, so he like jumps for it to shut it.  All I could imagine was this little dog hauling butt into that house and grabbing a piece of this kid that was laying all over the living room and running off.
> Try and picture that.



Don't have to try!  It was a traumatic amputation of a leg by a tweaker driven automobile.  Guy was on a motorcycle when the tweaker crosses the center line and hits him.  Started out as EMS progressed to SAR looking for the missing leg.  Turns out the limb was pretty well distributed throughout the countryside.  We had a cadaver dog in training working the scene.  Nuff said?


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## Airwaygoddess (Mar 6, 2007)

Oh dear............:unsure:


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## fm_emt (Mar 6, 2007)

Jon said:


> That is a shame.
> 
> And, as I'm sure Kip will say... a perfect example of why the scene isn't always safe just becasue the LEO's are there.
> 
> ...




Dude, awesome post. Very well said.


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## Luno (Mar 6, 2007)

*Jon, you forgot one*

"Know what is beyond, beside, and between you and your target"


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 10, 2007)

And here come the charges....Kind of surprised, figured they'd chalk it up to a "horrible accident."

The really sad part is, this kids parents were so broke up about it, they made it to their regularlly scheduled BINGO night that evening, and their bowling league the next night.    


from weartv.com 

_*Niceville Teen Turns Self In On Charges Of Manslaughter*_

_A teenager is charged with manslaughter, after fatally shooting another teen earlier this week.

14-year-old ******  is charged with shooting 17-year-old, ****** Sunday.

The boys were at **the boy that was charged** house playing with guns, when cox accidently shot Waller in the throat.

He turned himself in, this morning._


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## firecoins (Mar 10, 2007)

If their names are in the newspaper, does Hippa still apply? I mean the event is being described by a newspaper and you are simply quoting the article. It seems that would be public info already.

Of course I am wondering why a newspaper is releasing the name of an underage crime suspect.  Usually that isn't done.  Usually the police choose not to release the minor's name.


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 10, 2007)

I guess now that he is charged....heck, I don't know why they released the name of the 14yo.

And of our law enforcement guys have an opinion?

Oh and I starred out the names....


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## firecoins (Mar 10, 2007)

EMTPrincess said:


> I guess now that he is charged....heck, I don't know why they released the name of the 14yo.
> 
> And of our law enforcement guys have an opinion?
> 
> Oh and I starred out the names....



I know you starred them out.  I was wondering why. Does Hippa prevent you from quoting newspaper articles with that info?


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 10, 2007)

Naaa, not HiPAA.  I have never, in any of my posts, included names of patients...whether I treated them or not.  Just my personal practice.

I put the website of where I got it from there, so if someone really wants to know the names, they can go there.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 10, 2007)

HIPPA only *can be enforced only to those that have electronic billing*.. PERIOD. 
It cannot be enforced to non-medical participants ! Privacy laws can but not HIPPA! 

If it is a news, they can disclose name, address, etc... it is called freedom of the press and they will use it. 

HIPPA as well cannot interfere with radio communications, and open public information regarding public safety and health. For example autopsies are a public record and one can view or obtain such.. without privacy restrictions. 
** awaiting to see Anna Nicole's 

R/r 911


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## firecoins (Mar 11, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> HIPPA only *can be enforced only to those that have electronic billing*.. PERIOD.
> It cannot be enforced to non-medical participants ! Privacy laws can but not HIPPA!
> 
> If it is a news, they can disclose name, address, etc... it is called freedom of the press and they will use it.
> ...



If the media disclose the names of a patient and the nature of his medical problem, does HIPPA still apply?


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## BossyCow (Mar 12, 2007)

firecoins said:


> If the media disclose the names of a patient and the nature of his medical problem, does HIPPA still apply?



Only if they say they got the name from treating medical personnel without the permission of the patient.  Anything that is said over the radio is public information and not subject to HIPPA.  Anything you hear through gossip, rumour, etc and is not part of the medical report you wrote regarding your treatment of the Pt is not governed by HIPPA.  

HIPPA is to stop those who use electronic billing (thanks Rid) from selling that information to other insurance companies, future or past employers, drug companies, etc.  It simply states that when you treat someone as a healthcare provider, you can only release information regarding that treatment to those people specificially named by the Pt. and only with the pt's permission.  So, if the 38 yo male is in the back of your rig because he just had the $20 hooker stab him for non-payment, you can't tell his wife, boss, co-worker, next door neighbor or your buddy.  

On the listing the names of minors, we had a similar incident here some time back.  Apparently it is not a legal requirement that newspapers withold the names of minors.  It is an ethical/moral decision made by the individual newspaper.  Most opt to not mention the minor's name but there are exceptions.  If the cop gave the name to the paper it is not a HIPPA violation because cops are not healthcare providers and I haven't heard of the cops billing pts for medical care electronically or otherwise.  Now, if the general public puts two and two together and determines that the name of the kid in the police report is also the name in the medical call, this is not HIPPA related. 

Also, remember, what is in the paper may or may not be the way it was related to the reporter.  I have been on SAR calls which are run through the Sheriff's Office, the info about the subject of a search is not under HIPPA because we don't bill.  But, if the reporter gets the name and injuries while speaking to the subjects mother/spouse/big brother/roomate or whatever, it can just be in the body of the article without specifying who said what part of the story.


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## Fire219man (Mar 12, 2007)

I haven't ran on a gunshot to the neck yet....I must be isolated from the rest of the world.....


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 13, 2007)

Fire219man said:


> I haven't ran on a gunshot to the neck yet....I must be isolated from the rest of the world.....


 

Eh, nothing to it.  Walk in, half their necks missing....DOA.  

Walk in, only a little of their neck is missing....might be a difficult airway.

Walk in, flesh would....Here Sign this Refusal..... :lol:  :lol:   NO I am KIDDING!! .....  or am I?.... No I am...I'd rather transport everybody, refusals can be more work than just hauling them in.


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## Medic's Wife (Mar 13, 2007)

Jon said:


> Finially... cases like this are why I was glad to have my Father train my brother and myself in firearms through Boy Scouts... I was taught at a young age the NRA's Big 3 rules:
> 1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
> 2. Always keep you finger off the trigger until ready to shoot
> 3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready for use (http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp).
> ...



Amen!  I do NOT like my kids playing with toy guns, and pretending to shoot eachother.  And not because I'm anti-gun, because I'm far from it.  I live in the rural south, and my family and I are gun owners, and I don't want them developing a frivolous attitude about something so serious.  It's scary to think of them having the same playful, cavalier attitude towards a real gun as they have towards a toy one.

Ok, sorry to get off topic, carry on......


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## MedicPrincess (Mar 13, 2007)

And some more of what happened is revealed...

Apparently, the two boys were planning on going hunting later in the day.  They had been "joking around" about shooting each other all day.  While in the house, the 14 y/o loaded his .243 rifle, pointed it at the 17 y/o neck.  14 y/o says he was trying to uncock his rifle, when the hammer slipped hitting the 17 y/o in the throat.

14 y/o has been charged because he had taken gun safety classes since he was 8, had hunted numerous times with that same weapon, making him familiar with it.  Investigators say his actions (loading, aiming, cocking, and firing the rifle) showed a total disregard for the dead boys life.

Also, the 14 y/o father has been charged as well.  They charged him with having weapons in the house there were unsecure and accessible by a minor, and possession of firearms by a convicted felon.


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## BossyCow (Mar 13, 2007)

EMTPrincess;47315Also said:
			
		

> Hmmm convicted felon and he didn't raise his child to be responsible??? Go figure!


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