# Is trainning division .com a legitamate EMT-P school?



## Zalan (Sep 13, 2010)

I`m taking Emt-B class atm at community college. However, after I get done with the class have 2yrs of pre-requists, & then 2yrs of Paramedic class to take to become EMT-P in the state of Indiana.

I was looking into Alternatives to this. A guy at work recomended trainning divsion .com. He was taking the class himself. I`m kind of warry of anything online. Are they a Scam or a Legit School?


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## medic417 (Sep 13, 2010)

There are better online Paramedic programs.  All still require trips to their locations for hands on.  Plus you will have to still do clinicals.  If you decide online is for you try www.percomonline.com or www.techproservices.net .  

Many people that try to do online spend the money but do not have the self discipline to finish.  If you tend to procrastinate online is not for you.


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## terrible one (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm wary of anything online, in my experience you don't get the same education you receive in class. 
Why not just go to a traditional in class school?


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## Zalan (Sep 13, 2010)

Going to a tradional school means its a 4 year process for me. I have to take a few refresher courses, & then the pre-requist class which will take 2 yrs.

Intro to College Writing II
English Composition
A&P I
A&P II

In that order before I can even enter into the paramedic program which is a 2 yrs degree program. There are no other Paramedic programs in the area beside the local community college.


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## terrible one (Sep 13, 2010)

Ok, I understand that it might take a little longer the traditional route but education should not be a race. 
Taking an extra 4 classes + refreshers that are very beneficial to a paramedic career will help you in your program and in your career. Also two english classes and two A&P classes can easily be done in one year. 
Another benefit is getting a degree. I doubt your online school will give you one. If decide to go another route as far as a career having a 2 year degree is better than not having one. I wouldn't short step the education process just to get out and attempt to find a job sooner especially in this economy. 
Of course it is your choice, but to me spending an extra few years in school to get a hands on education and a degree is well worth the time. 
Good Luck either way


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## medic417 (Sep 13, 2010)

terrible one said:


> I'm wary of anything online, in my experience you don't get the same education you receive in class.
> Why not just go to a traditional in class school?



Actually even medical schools now post the lectures online so basically you are attending the book part online.  

The quality programs will educate you as well if not better than most traditional programs.  Now at this point not aware of any that you can end up with a degree, but I am sure that will be coming.


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## terrible one (Sep 13, 2010)

medic417 said:


> Actually even medical schools now post the lectures online so basically you are attending the book part online.
> 
> The quality programs will educate you as well if not better than most traditional programs.  Now at this point not aware of any that you can end up with a degree, but I am sure that will be coming.




Interesting. I've taken 6 college classes online and would much prefer the in class setting. But that is just me and I feel like I got a lot more out of traditional classes.


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## medic417 (Sep 13, 2010)

terrible one said:


> Interesting. I've taken 6 college classes online and would much prefer the in class setting. But that is just me and I feel like I got a lot more out of traditional classes.



That's why each person must analyze their learning style.  Some people do better with no distractions such as occur in a classroom.  Some need the structure of a classroom.  But it is wrong to automatically lump an educational method as bad just because it does not work for us.


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## terrible one (Sep 13, 2010)

Very true, however, I question the motives behind choosing a distance program over others. As many are looking for a quicker easier way to the finish line and not picking a program based on actual learning tendencies. 
Not saying that was the OP's agenda but it does make one question it when posting statements like "it takes 4 years to complete"
I am sure they have other reasons too and this was not meant to be a personal attack on them.


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## 8jimi8 (Sep 13, 2010)

I used training division, online to get my basic.  You will basically read the AAOS
1. read chapter
2. do associated workbook pages
3. take chapter test.
4. repeat to end of book

Then you go for your boot camp / clinicals

daily skills and chapter tests for a week then the final test.  

You have to arrange for another facility to test for NREMT.


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## Zalan (Sep 14, 2010)

terrible one said:


> Very true, however, I question the motives behind choosing a distance program over others. As many are looking for a quicker easier way to the finish line and not picking a program based on actual learning tendencies.
> Not saying that was the OP's agenda but it does make one question it when posting statements like "it takes 4 years to complete"
> I am sure they have other reasons too and this was not meant to be a personal attack on them.



My motive is I don`t want to take 4 yrs to get from point A to B if it can be done in 2 yrs. Working full-time & going to school full-time puts a serous strain on family, marriage, & me. Surving 2 yrs is doable, but 4 is iffy. Getting a degree is not important. What is important is getting the cert, & being able to do the best care possable.


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## jgmedic (Sep 14, 2010)

Zalan said:


> My motive is I don`t want to take 4 yrs to get from point A to B if it can be done in 2 yrs. Working full-time & going to school full-time puts a serous strain on family, marriage, & me. Surving 2 yrs is doable, but 4 is iffy. Getting a degree is not important. What is important is getting the cert, & being able to do the best care possable.



Why is getting a degree not important to you? I'm not saying don't do the online, believe me I get the family, marriage thing, I went through it myself, but in general a degreed program will give you the best opportunity to "do the best care possible"


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## legion1202 (Sep 20, 2010)

Dude.. get your basic classes done you can do them in less than a year you could even get those classes done online. I think online school for some classes work like math, history, etc.. But would you want a doctor to get his MD online? I'm not saying online school medics arent good because there are some community college medic's outthere that suck too. 

I would base my choices on getting hired and what you want to do long term. Where do you live maybe people on this board can help you find a local school.

Good luck any how


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## 46Young (Sep 21, 2010)

Zalan said:


> My motive is I don`t want to take 4 yrs to get from point A to B if it can be done in 2 yrs. Working full-time & going to school full-time puts a serous strain on family, marriage, & me. Surving 2 yrs is doable, but 4 is iffy. Getting a degree is not important. What is important is getting the cert, & being able to do the best care possable.



I understand your situation. Your kids only grow up once. Your wife may grow to resent you if you're never home. What good is the degree if it causes a divorce and alienates you from your kids? If they're young, all they know is that daddy's not home. 

Personally, I chose a 13 month paramedic program over a three year RN program. We had a new baby, and were already going into debt just doing what we were doing, let alone adding the cost for school. Let's think about it, I could slip deeper and deeper into debt, and also miss the first three years of my child's life, basically. Or, I could go to school for a little over a year, and only have be there twice a week for the first month and the last. Additionally, in doing the three years of school in my case, or four years in the OP's case, you're losing revenue for that extra time in school.

Really, the OP could do the quick paramedic program, and then do the additional classes required for the degree afterward, on his own time. That's what I'm doing. When you're young and don't have much in the way of bills, or obligations, then you can afford to do things the long way. When you have a family, it's different. Family comes first.


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## medic417 (Sep 21, 2010)

46Young said:


> I understand your situation. Your kids only grow up once. Your wife may grow to resent you if you're never home. What good is the degree if it causes a divorce and alienates you from your kids? If they're young, all they know is that daddy's not home.
> 
> Personally, I chose a 13 month paramedic program over a three year RN program. We had a new baby, and were already going into debt just doing what we were doing, let alone adding the cost for school. Let's think about it, I could slip deeper and deeper into debt, and also miss the first three years of my child's life, basically. Or, I could go to school for a little over a year, and only have be there twice a week for the first month and the last. Additionally, in doing the three years of school in my case, or four years in the OP's case, you're losing revenue for that extra time in school.
> 
> Really, the OP could do the quick paramedic program, and then do the additional classes required for the degree afterward, on his own time. That's what I'm doing. When you're young and don't have much in the way of bills, or obligations, then you can afford to do things the long way. When you have a family, it's different. Family comes first.



I hate to do this but I actually have to agree.  Family is more important than any degree or job.  EMS is just a job, not a calling, not a life style, nothing but another job.


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## dry-fly (Sep 24, 2010)

I took the EMTB class from TrainingDivision.Com also.  Personally, I think the EMTP class online would be tougher than going to a classroom.  There is a TON of material they cram in when you go to their "boot camp."  It's one thing to do that for basic, but for P.... shesh.  I understand your basically stuck between two less than perfect options.


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## JPINFV (Sep 24, 2010)

legion1202 said:


> But would you want a doctor to get his MD online?



I think you'd be surprised at the number of medical students who opt for watching the lecture recording instead of sitting in on the actual lecture.


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## medicRob (Sep 24, 2010)

Zalan said:


> Going to a tradional school means its a 4 year process for me. I have to take a few refresher courses, & then the pre-requist class which will take 2 yrs.
> 
> Intro to College Writing II
> English Composition
> ...



What's wrong with that? For my Paramedic degree, I transferred over credits from my undergraduate nursing program to include: Anatomy & Physiology I and II, Pathophysiology, Microbiology, English Composition I and II, Fundamentals of Professional Communication, General Psychology I, US History I and II, Abnormal Psychology, General Chemistry I, Dosage Calculation, American Literature, and Cellular and Molecular Biology in a program that required

A & P I and II (Nursing level), Microbiology, English Comp I and II, Fundamentals of Prof Communication, EMS Management and leadership I, music or art apprecation, etc and you are complaining about Intro to College Writing II, English Composition, A&P I, A&P II. 

This is the problem with EMS. EMS wants to be accepted as a profession, yet they don't want to put in the proper time. I spent more time in biology as a nurse than a Paramedic spends in their entire certification, yet you want to be held to the same level as RN's and regarded as a profession  when your training on human pathophysiology, anatomy & physiology, and the overall disease process is minimal at best with a bunch of fancy skills attached. 

EMS will not be truly recognized as a profession until we start implementing degree programs which consist of Nursing, Pre-Med, and Pre-Pharmacy levels of undergraduate A & P and not some course where a Paramedic instructor with no credentials in biology whatsoever goes over a topic and then sums up a system with, "Well you don't need to know this to practice in EMS", Full Humanities requirements to include Composition I and II, Research, Microbiology, and Communicating in the Professions, just like nursing has. 

Stop trying to shortcut education people.


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## fortsmithman (Sep 25, 2010)

medicRob said:


> What's wrong with that? For my Paramedic degree, I transferred over credits from my undergraduate nursing program to include: Anatomy & Physiology I and II, Pathophysiology, Microbiology, English Composition I and II, Fundamentals of Professional Communication, General Psychology I, US History I and II, Abnormal Psychology, General Chemistry I, Dosage Calculation, American Literature, and Cellular and Molecular Biology in a program that required
> 
> A & P I and II (Nursing level), Microbiology, English Comp I and II, Fundamentals of Prof Communication, EMS Management and leadership I, music or art apprecation, etc and you are complaining about Intro to College Writing II, English Composition, A&P I, A&P II.
> 
> ...



Here in Canada EMS is a profession.  Our EMS courses are longer than your average course in the USA as we educate as well as teach skills.  I'm planning on getting my bachelors degree from either Medicine Hat College which is a Bachelor of Health Sciences (Paramedic) BHSc, or from the University of Toronto at Scarborough Bachelor of Science in Paramedicine BSc.  I believe in mre education, but sadly there are many in this forum who disagree with a bachelor's degree requirement for paramedic.


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## medicRob (Sep 25, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> Here in Canada EMS is a profession.  Our EMS courses are longer than your average course in the USA as we educate as well as teach skills.  I'm planning on getting my bachelors degree from either Medicine Hat College which is a Bachelor of Health Sciences (Paramedic) BHSc, or from the University of Toronto at Scarborough Bachelor of Science in Paramedicine BSc.  I believe in mre education, but sadly there are many in this forum who disagree with a bachelor's degree requirement for paramedic.



I think that the US should really look closely at how EMS education is carried out in other parts of the world, particularly in Canada and New Zealand and implement some of those standards right here at home.


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## MrBrown (Sep 25, 2010)

Zalan said:


> My motive is I don`t want to take 4 yrs to get from point A to B...



Australia /New Zealand requires four years for Paramedic (ILS) and up to six years for Intensive Care Paramedic (ALS)

Canada requires either one or two years for Primary Care Paramedic (BLS) and then another one or two years for Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS)

The UK requires three to four years for State Registered Paramedic (ALS)

South Africa requires two years for Intermediate Life Support and four years for Advanced.

.... you think two years is a problem?


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## Zalan (Sep 25, 2010)

Not that 2 yrs is not a problem. Its more like 4 yrs is a problem.

Funny, thing is if I was to run off & get Emt-P cert in Texas. I could come back to Indiana, & take the 6 general courses & get a ASN in Paramedic Science.

The process they have hear is your required to get all the general education requirements before they will accept you into the Paramedic program. EMS instructors said they know of 5 counties in the region wanting Paramedics really bad. For the most part AMR will not touch most Emt-B`s unless there in the Paramedic program.

All the ambulances in the area run 1 Emt-B & 1 Paramedic.


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## medicRob (Sep 26, 2010)

Zalan said:


> Not that 2 yrs is not a problem. Its more like 4 yrs is a problem.
> 
> Funny, thing is if I was to run off & get Emt-P cert in Texas. I could come back to Indiana, & take the 6 general courses & get a ASN in Paramedic Science.
> 
> ...



That's the way a Paramedic program should be. They should require you to complete a "Lower Division, Pre-Paramedic Curriculum" before being allowed to apply to the upper division Paramedic school and that decision should be contigent upon your cumulative GPA, how well you do on an EMT-Basic test, and MMPI exam. 

Why shouldn't you be required too? I had to complete this for my nursing degree, to be accepted into Upper Division. If you are truly serious about becoming a healthcare professional, you will pursue the 4 year program. You are far better off in the end. I would encourage you to also take "Composition II", "General Biology I and I", "Prof communications" and "Microbiology" as electives at a bare minimum.


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## JPINFV (Sep 26, 2010)

medicRob said:


> Why shouldn't you be required too? I had to complete this for my nursing degree, to be accepted into Upper Division. If you are truly serious about becoming a healthcare professional, you will pursue the 4 year program. You are far better off in the end. I would encourage you to also take "Composition II", "General Biology I and I", "Prof communications" and "Microbiology" as electives at a bare minimum.



I would argue that a professional degree program, be it undergrad or graduate level, should include all of the general education and foundational material as a part of the program. As a bio major, I didn't have to reapply to school once I finished the undergrad courses. As a grad student, I didn't have to reapply to grad school to start my thesis research. As a medical student, I won't have to reapply to school once I get out of basic medical sciences to start clerkships. Similarly, I can't think of a single medical school where the major medical foundation courses (anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, etc. In contrast to basic science courses like general chemistry, physics, etc) are required outside of a small exception. The only real exception I can think of is some require undergrad biochemistry, but that's hardly every school (note: many, if not most, recommend biochem, but I can't think of a single school that even recommends physiology). 

The only problem I see with medic school is that there are too many programs out there that think that 2 weeks and anatomy and physiology is giving the material due justice.


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## Zalan (Sep 26, 2010)

This is the Curriculum for ASN in Paramedic Science the school offers:

 APHY 101  Anatomy and Physiology I 3 
  APHY 102  Anatomy and Physiology II 3 
** COMM XXX  Communications Elective 3 
  ENGL 111  English Composition  3 
  IVYT 1XX  Life Skills Elective 1 - 3 
** MATH 1XX  Mathematics Elective 3 
  XXXX XXX  Humanities/Social & Behavioral Sciences Elective 3 
General Education: 19 - 21  


Professional-Technical 
  PARM 102  Emergency Medical Technician - Basic Training 7.5 
  PARM 111  Preparatory  3 
  PARM 112  Prehospital Pharmacology  3 
  PARM 115  Airway, Patient Assessment  3.5 
  PARM 116  Clinical Application I  1.5 
  PARM 200  Trauma  3 
  PARM 210  Medical I  6 
  PARM 213  Medical II 5 
  PARM 215  Special Considerations  3.5 
  PARM 216  Clinical Application II 1.5 
  PARM 219  Clinical Application III 1.5 
^ PARM 220  Operations  2.5 
  PARM 221  Ambulance Internship  6 
Professional-Technical: 47.5  

Total: 66.5 - 68.5

This is for the community college not trainning division.


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## medicRob (Sep 26, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> I would argue that a professional degree program, be it undergrad or graduate level, should include all of the general education and foundational material as a part of the program. As a bio major, I didn't have to reapply to school once I finished the undergrad courses. As a grad student, I didn't have to reapply to grad school to start my thesis research. As a medical student, I won't have to reapply to school once I get out of basic medical sciences to start clerkships. Similarly, I can't think of a single medical school where the major medical foundation courses (anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, etc. In contrast to basic science courses like general chemistry, physics, etc) are required outside of a small exception. The only real exception I can think of is some require undergrad biochemistry, but that's hardly every school (note: many, if not most, recommend biochem, but I can't think of a single school that even recommends physiology).
> 
> The only problem I see with medic school is that there are too many programs out there that think that 2 weeks and anatomy and physiology is giving the material due justice.



I could cite some medical schools that require anatomy & physiology, but let's be real. When you get into medical school, you are going to be taking gross anatomy and re-learning everything you learned in undergrad A & P plus some in far more detail. I am getting ready to go through the med school process myself, having completed an undergraduate degree in chemistry with an emphasis in biology, once my MSN program culminates. The particular school I will be applying to requires hours in biology (to include A &P I and II and Gen Bio I and II) as well as algebra based physics, etc, but the real emphasis that is common amongst medical schools are the organic and inorganic chemistry requirements, so yes; I agree with you on that. 

I certainly agree with you about the medic schools who tihnk that 2 weeks of anatomy is doing the material justice. As I said, I spent more time in A & P and Pathophysiology alone than many individuals spent in their entire medic program, as I am sure you have as well, JPINFV. One of my jobs is working as a teaching assistant in Anatomy & Physiology I Lecture and teaching Anatomy & Physiology II laboratory. I am fortunate enough to work with a University that teaches the course at a graduate level, so we go into things like, "G proteins and the role of adenylate cyclase on cAMP production, etc" which I feel could truly benefit the medic student in the pharmacology portion of their course when they are learning about things like cyclic-AMP-dependant inotropes like dobutamine for instance and the mechanism of action these drugs possess. Having this basic foundation of both Anatomy & Physiology and molecular biology will greatly contribute to creating EMS Providers who no longer practice "Cookbook Medicine", but rather treat the patient's condition while taking into consideration the underlying pathophysiological alterations responsible for the problems.

If we can incorporate programs that have the same general education requirements as nursing, then we can truly create well-rounded providers and take one more step forward toward being accepted as a profession.


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## Zalan (Sep 26, 2010)

How serous would you take an Emt-b class? If you could retake the chapter tests till you get 100% & the work book answer were all in the back. & this totalled for about 75% of your grade. & you only have to get 80% to pass the class. & they mainly focus on the Skill Sheets for State Practicals. The class seems to be focusing more on getting stat Cert than NREMT.


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## medicRob (Sep 26, 2010)

Zalan said:


> How serous would you take an Emt-b class? If you could retake the chapter tests till you get 100% & the work book answer were all in the back. & this totalled for about 75% of your grade. & you only have to get 80% to pass the class. & they mainly focus on the Skill Sheets for State Practicals. The class seems to be focusing more on getting stat Cert than NREMT.



Look at the medic mills in the US. They train people to take tests, not to be good medics. That is why we call them patch factories.

Also, the curriculum of that AS, Paramedic program (Not ASN, ASN = Associate of Science in Nursing) looks respectable. You should take that program in my opinion.


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