# Do all paramedics think they are the know all end all?



## Luckydogg0404 (Oct 13, 2006)

Wow, I have noticed (not like it is hard) that alot of paramedics think they are the " know all,end all" and that emt-b's are pieces of crap. Like emt-b's are more of an annoyance to the public than a value. Ofcourse the D.O.T. hasnt gotten this memo yet because they still sanction and mandate EMT-B's. I wish some of the godlike paramedics would apply for a position in the D.O.T. because they are obviously much more intelligent than the people already in place because the know all para. have several years personal knowledge and the D.O.T. only has several decades and many datasets in which to glean their knowledge. Heres the bottom lineon a human level and not from a medical viewpoint.... To all of the Para. tat like to bash EMT-B's: Get your head out of the clouds! How do you think nurses and M.d.'s speak of you? The same way you speak of EMT's. Also, if you are busy pointing out EMT's shortcomings you obviously think you have " arrived" and are no longer learning , and guess what.....YOU are putting people in danger with your know all attitude. Not the EMT. If your EMT is lacking, help them. DOnt come here and talk about how dumb they are.


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## Flight-LP (Oct 13, 2006)

Feel better??


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## VinBin (Oct 13, 2006)

Well...First of all, I have met many, many Medics who do all they can to help out others who need/ask for it.  Many medics who admit when they don't know about something.  And a minority that do tend to be egoistic.  When I become a Medic, I doubt I will be of the kind that talk down to others because I have been around good Medics and EMT's (you will find many here).  
So here you go, we both seem to have different opinions.  I am sorry if some Medic did something to hurt you (as it seems) but please try not to generalize the entire Medic population as "having their heads in the clouds" because of one incident.

And finally, I know its a joke, but your sig. makes the message a bit ironic...


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## Summit (Oct 13, 2006)

Oh jeez *sigh*


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## Guardian (Oct 13, 2006)

Luckydogg0404 said:


> Wow, I have noticed (not like it is hard) that alot of paramedics think they are the " know all,end all" and that emt-b's are pieces of crap. Like emt-b's are more of an annoyance to the public than a value. Ofcourse the D.O.T. hasnt gotten this memo yet because they still sanction and mandate EMT-B's. I wish some of the godlike paramedics would apply for a position in the D.O.T. because they are obviously much more intelligent than the people already in place because the know all para. have several years personal knowledge and the D.O.T. only has several decades and many datasets in which to glean their knowledge. Heres the bottom lineon a human level and not from a medical viewpoint.... To all of the Para. tat like to bash EMT-B's: Get your head out of the clouds! How do you think nurses and M.d.'s speak of you? The same way you speak of EMT's. Also, if you are busy pointing out EMT's shortcomings you obviously think you have " arrived" and are no longer learning , and guess what.....YOU are putting people in danger with your know all attitude. Not the EMT. If your EMT is lacking, help them. DOnt come here and talk about how dumb they are.



I understand your feelings but try to consider a paramedics point of view.  In paramedic school, they teach you to be a leader.  Paramedics are in charge of patient care.  It's not a democracy, one man/woman is in charge.  Everyone else including the emt-b, firefighters, police, nurses, bystanders, cna, PA, social worker, and President of the United States, is an assistant to the paramedic in charge.  The one rare exception occurs when an MD takes over patient care, but I have not yet seen this happen in the field.  If you don't like taking orders from paramedics, you have one of two choices.  Either quit, or become a paramedic like I did.


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## Guardian (Oct 13, 2006)

Oh yea, and we are smarter than those NHTSA idiots.


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## c-spine (Oct 13, 2006)

O_O

My best friend is a paramedic - and he's not the "I own you" type. You gotta remember that paramedics are people too. They're human, they feel emotions like stress, and sometimes, it gets the better of them. That doesn't make them horrible people.

Think about this - you're one person. You're caring for a child who's not breathing after some traumatic accident and you've got Mom, Dad, and a bunch of bystanders screaming at you to "DO SOMETHING!!" And then you've got your basics, first responders, firefighters, cops, etc all there asking what they can do. It's stressful and you've got to get everyone where they need to be in order to care for your patient. You don't really have the time to sit down with each individual and say "Ok...now...you. I would like you to please do this, this, and this..."


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## Guardian (Oct 13, 2006)

The "I own you type"...now that's hilarious, I needed a good laugh


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## fyrdog (Oct 13, 2006)

If paramedics save lives and EMTs save paramedics, how is it that I always have to put the patient on 02 and take my own BP while the EMTs are telling me they'll help me out and set up my IV, put on the monitor or ask the patient how many years ago did you have that hang nail while I'm listening to lung sounds?

Wow thats on long run on sentence.


There's attitude on both sides of the issue. Get over it I did.


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## Guardian (Oct 13, 2006)

fyrdog said:


> If paramedics save lives and EMTs save paramedics, how is it that I always have to put the patient on 02 and take my own BP while the EMTs are telling me they'll help me out and set up my IV, put on the monitor or ask the patient how many years ago did you have that hang nail while I'm listening to lung sounds?
> 
> Wow thats on long run on sentence.
> 
> ...




You let your emts talk to the pt?...LOL


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## Guardian (Oct 13, 2006)

It really depends on the person more than their certification level or anything else.  I work in a fairly large city as a paramedic with cutting edge protocols, all on standing order.  Yet, one of the best ems providers I've ever met is an emt-b in a small podunk fire department out in a rural part of the state.


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## gradygirl (Oct 13, 2006)

OK, rather than sitting here and complaining, do something about it. If you work with a medic whose ego is through the roof while their skills are mediocre at best, call them out on it. I work with some of the best medics I've ever met, and I have a great deal of respect for them. And I've gained their respect by keeping my standards for myself and for my coworkers high. I'm not afraid to call anyone out when a mistake is made, because they need to be identified and corrected. I'm also not afraid to talk back to a medic who thinks that I have no idea what I'm talking about (especially when _they_ don't know what they're talking about.) You know why I'm not afraid? Because I do know what I'm talking about. And I pick my battles, I'm not going to go around and nit-pick every single little thing someone does.

And as to your nurse and MD comment, watch where you go with that one. You're making what they say valid by using it as an example. If an MD is going to say "you're not good enough because you're an EMT/medic" I'll look right back at them and say "then you get your *** on a truck and get in the field." I've done it before, I'll do it again.

Also, please do not come in here and bash our medics. These guys and gals are wonderful and you will learn a lot from them if you try.

Oh, and one last thing, correlation does not equal causation: all paragods are paramedics, but not all paramedics are paragods. Please don't confuse the two.


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## daemonicusxx (Oct 13, 2006)

fyrdog said:


> If paramedics save lives and EMTs save paramedics, how is it that I always have to put the patient on 02 and take my own BP while the EMTs are telling me they'll help me out and set up my IV, put on the monitor or ask the patient how many years ago did you have that hang nail while I'm listening to lung sounds?
> 
> Wow thats on long run on sentence.
> 
> ...



I'll definatly agree with that.


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## islandgal (Oct 13, 2006)

In any career area there are going to be the "know it alls".  In the medical field, those that have been trained to make the decisions better have a lot of confidence and with that sometimes comes a big ego. Whatever happened to tick you off, either find a way to resolve it or let it go.  I have worked in clinical, hospital and research settings around MD's/PHD (from many cultures) and many of them can be total jerks and unaware of any social manners.  Others were great and fun to work with. 
Don't single out medics.   Many are so willing to help and have great respect for the EMT's working with them.  Some are a**holes.  I know it feels good to vent and it's ok to challenge, but I would pick my battles carefully.


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## Celtictigeress (Oct 13, 2006)

Yanno....

I hate the stereotypes more then anything saying all paramedics are egotistical is like saying every pitbull bites, every blackman is a criminal, every native American is an Alcoholic...get the point? (Guys Im N.A and to any this is not mant to offend but I needed stereotypes heh) Sterotypes are wrong just because ONE givs you attitude does not make them wrong but consider this a Medic is taught WAY more then a Basic its truth...they have more with their medical protocol then a basic... they are taught leadership. Just because you have ONE bad experiance does that mean all Medics are A$$es?? Saying that is just as stupid as saying just because One Man Murders his wife all men are murderers Just because on woman shoplifts all are theifs and just because one baby colics they all do.I work with a LOT of medics as a matter of fact the last call we had where they showed up they offered me quite a bit of respect and courtesy... My Cousin is a (Was before an accident) a Medic and she gave as much respect as you did....It depends on the person not the rank...some of the guys I hang out with are Medics heh (yanno when they start drinking and getting stupid it makes for AWESOME blackmail the next day I suggest taking a lot of pictures..I sure as hell do rofl)

Why any person in their right or left mind would come on here on a site they KNOW has Medics and begin with that crap is beyond me...looking for trouble? or just bored and deciding to ruffle feathers hmmm???


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 13, 2006)

Unfortunately LuckyDog, it is your type of attitude and ignorance of the EMS system and medical care that produces such behavior from some medics. Yes, it is true and very unfortunate that EMT course is not much more than a first-aid class... period. Don't believe me and want proof then do a comparison of the ARC Advanced First Aid and the Basic EMT Curriculum. Very little in difference, especially since the Basic EMT Curriculum was written not any higher than at the  junior high school level.

Now, if you were aware and was truly educated instead of using anecdotal feelings  you would be aware that the NHTSA did and does contract out Paramedics. Just as it is now contracted to the National EMS Educators Association (NAEMSE) to develop the new 2008 curriculum's. We as Paramedics are even aware that the current Paramedic Curriculum is a shamble. This society is comprised of all levels, but yes, mostly Paramedics since this is the highest level of the EMS system. 

Far as discussing Paramedics from medical peers, such as nurses and physicians, what do you think they say if they talk bad about Paramedics, what we say about basics? 

Now, I highly suggest in instead of ranting to possibly channel your energy and anger into something productive such as increasing your education level. Now, please note I did not say "training" which is a total different methodology. I do believe once you do and if you do complete such, your attitude will definitely change with a true understanding of the approach of proper assessment techniques, medical care and treatment regime. 

I also find this ironic this is coming from a person in a state that is having problems passing national standard testing examination.... 

R/r 911


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## Summit (Oct 13, 2006)

See what you've done? You've gotten RidRyder's feathers all ruffled!

and Guardian... it's more respectfull to refer to deceased five star generals by their final rank instead one 6 grades down...


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## gradygirl (Oct 13, 2006)

Ridryder911 said:


> I also find this ironic this is coming from a person in a state that is having problems passing national standard testing examination....



Burn. :mellow:


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## Firechic (Oct 13, 2006)

Luckydogg,
Just a friendly suggestion, perhaps you should have titled your thread with 'vent' or 'rant'. Base your vents on the specifics of an event instead of generalizing and you'll probably get more sympathy and/or empathy.
It appears as though you had a bad experience and needed to blow off some steam. The people on this forum are very understanding, vent instead of accuse and it'll be all right.


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## islandgal (Oct 13, 2006)

Well stated Firechic.


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## MMiz (Oct 14, 2006)

No.  That's my answer


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 14, 2006)

What I consider that is really scary is his autograph...when venting and commenting about a higher level....

"NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF IDIOTS IN LARGE GROUPS"... 

R/r 911


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## c-spine (Oct 14, 2006)

TCERT said:
			
		

> Oh, and one last thing, correlation does not equal causation: all paragods are paramedics, but not all paramedics are paragods. Please don't confuse the two.



BEST. POST. EVER.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 14, 2006)

Luckydogg0404 said:


> Wow, I have noticed (not like it is hard) that alot of paramedics think they are the " know all,end all" and that emt-b's are pieces of crap. Like emt-b's are more of an annoyance to the public than a value. Ofcourse the D.O.T. hasnt gotten this memo yet because they still sanction and mandate EMT-B's. I wish some of the godlike paramedics would apply for a position in the D.O.T. because they are obviously much more intelligent than the people already in place because the know all para. have several years personal knowledge and the D.O.T. only has several decades and many datasets in which to glean their knowledge. Heres the bottom lineon a human level and not from a medical viewpoint.... To all of the Para. tat like to bash EMT-B's: Get your head out of the clouds! How do you think nurses and M.d.'s speak of you? The same way you speak of EMT's. Also, if you are busy pointing out EMT's shortcomings you obviously think you have " arrived" and are no longer learning , and guess what.....YOU are putting people in danger with your know all attitude. Not the EMT. If your EMT is lacking, help them. DOnt come here and talk about how dumb they are.


Thank you for bringing this to our attention.......


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## SwissEMT (Oct 14, 2006)

Someone Kill This Thread.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 14, 2006)




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## islandgal (Oct 14, 2006)

Nothing with this thread-the beautiful women with the incredibly cute kids.  His bike helmet is not fitted correctly.


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## gradygirl (Oct 14, 2006)




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## MMiz (Oct 14, 2006)

I think it's time to close this one.


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## Luckydogg0404 (Oct 14, 2006)

*A little clarity never hurt anyone*

I think the ones that decided to try and belittle should maybe read the post again " Do all paramedics  think they are the know all end all" or maybe just the title would be sufficient. Now, if it were titled " All paramedic..." now that would imply stereotyping. Kinda looked like a question didnt it? Hmmmm. I have met very few medics and the majority were very condescending even in a simple "off-call" conversation, thus the reason I ASKED the question. Was looking for a little feedback. I got it,lol. To the ones who fedback with a helpful reply, thank you. To the others...if I offended I apologize, but there was never any stereotyping made. 
P.S. to the guy that thinks the sig. is funny due to the contents of the thread.... explain that to me,lmao


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## Celtictigeress (Oct 14, 2006)

Here in Tx you dont..Im going for FF all you need to do is pass the written then the agility they put you through FF and EMT training I already have my EMT so I just need to do the agility part and get put on the "List" some places are funny like that


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## Summit (Oct 14, 2006)

"Are all paramedics meanie knowitalls?" 

Don't read the "poor little me got jumped for an honest earnest question" sob speech. 

You are a n00b who made a stupid post and got *****slapped for it. Welcome to the internet. Welcome to EMS. 

Deal, learn, and move on... if you can't, move out.


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## Flight-LP (Oct 14, 2006)

Nicely spoken.........

Gee and it wasn't even from one of those condescending Paramedic types....

Hey Lucky, again welcome to the world of online forums. It is really hard to backtrack when you come on as strong as you did. Based on your posts, I actually could see why medics speak to you the way they allegedly have. Maybe a little less attitude on you r part may promote a more positive session of interpersonal communications.


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## fyrdog (Oct 14, 2006)

They closed the other tread right when it was getting good.  . 

I wasn't offended be the orginal post just having some fun with the fact that EMTs and Paramedics sometimes step on each other with out realizing it. For those that are the overbearing type


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## Luckydogg0404 (Oct 14, 2006)

I have obviously found the guilty parties. Please keep posting,lol.


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## Luckydogg0404 (Oct 14, 2006)

I would like to thank you all for your personal advice. I will most definitely put away all personal beliefs and instantly adhere to the suggestions of my peers. Awesome stuff. I only wish I had found you earlier. My life would have been so much more fulfilling up to this point. *Sigh*
Dr. Phil look out....you have competition. It was an obvservation, if the shoe fits thn by all means.... The explanations posted as to why some paramedics act like they do were welcomed, but personal advice you can keep. I do not have the gold available to trade for such invaluable life guidance.


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## Summit (Oct 14, 2006)

Hmmm I was anything but on your case in the other thread...






Gosh... everone is wrong... and you... well you are the most badass knowitall JONG I've come across. Kudos! Please continue to antagonize the board instead of eating your humble pie. I'm sure your astute strategy of playing the victim while antagonizing others will continue to win you friends in this community.






Here's a little hint you might realize if you took some time to learn about this place. If you have RidRyder ripping you a new bodily orifice (not to mention the rest of this otherwise unusually peaceful forum), you have *definately* made a *leeetle* faux pas...


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## eggshen (Oct 14, 2006)

Methinks lucky has not been in the business for long at all.

Egg


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## Luckydogg0404 (Oct 14, 2006)

Well, I am probably not really concerned with making friends on the internet via a website. Although I will make the friends I make I will probably not obsess over the friends made or lost over the web. I can only aspire to be so pathetic, but thanks for your concern. I find this amusing . Please keep the mentallity that the internet will make a meaningful difference in the lives of forum posters. It makes for very entertaining consideration.


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## gradygirl (Oct 14, 2006)

Careful, Lucky. While you may not subscribe to the "poster" mentality (I don't, hell, most of us don't, so don't make this a name game), you are treading a very thin line with the etiquette of this forum.



			
				Luckydogg0404 said:
			
		

> I can only aspire to be so pathetic, but thanks for your concern.
> 
> Dr. Phil look out....you have competition.
> 
> I think the ones that decided to try and belittle should maybe read the post again.



Yeah, all of those, not so friendly. If you came here looking for advice, to learn things, to "make friends," then you are doing a poor job of presenting yourself as a person to take seriously on any level.

Here's a question for you: why _did_ you join this forum if you can't understand the give and take of opinions, suggestions, criticisms, etc.?

And here's a tip, get over the fact that you've got people who do not share your view or appreciate your "scathing wit." If you want to post here, then post, but be prepared for people to give you their opinions.


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## MedicPrincess (Oct 14, 2006)

Okay, Lucky I will take a turn since Matt closed the original thread before I could get off work in time  (BAD Admin...you should have known I was pulling a 48 and would get here eventually).

Your original post started with:



> I have noticed (not like it is hard) that alot of paramedics think they are the " know all,end all" and that emt-b's are pieces of crap


 
Well as a brand new, not even an EMT yet you would do very well in this business to accept that fact. And understand one other thing:  Sure "old medics" (yep, thats you RR) may not know everything there is to know, but you can bet your butt they have forgotten more than you'll learn in that little EMT course your taking.

I am in Medic school now.  And let me tell you, those of us that go into our clinical enviroment, shut up and listen to what those Medics are telling us, Yes'sir/No'sir (or ma'am) them, ask questions about what is going on at the appropriate times, and are willing to accept the fact that they know more than us are doing a heck of a lot better than those that are talking back, treating the medics like they are "knowitalls," interrupting the medic, and acting as if they already know the material.  One of the EMTs in my class (I'm embarassed to admit his is in my clinical group), was getting some advice on improving his intubation technique from a very expierienced medic and he actually looked at her and told her "Look, I know how to do this."  I think we can all guess how well that went over.

I have not had the problem you describe with any of our medics.  But then again I treat them with the respect their years of expierience deserves.

You may find your getting that kind of attitude from medics because of how you come across to them.  Lets face it, this is an ego driven business.  And as an EMT-basic STUDENT you need to realize, you really don't know crap.  The Brady Emergency Care book, or whatever text book you guys are using in your class, does a really great job of preparing you to answer 100 questions on a test at the end.  It will give you a VERY basic knowledge....a VERY VERY basic knowledge of what to do.  There is not a textbook in the world that will prepare you for what to do the first time you are faced with a patient that goes into cardiac arrest while your talking to them, or the first time your the first and only provider on scene of an MCI with multiple trauma alerts, ect.  

The only thing that will prepare you for what your about to encounter is expierence.  And you will do very well to humble yourself to the old knowitall medics, shut up and listen to what they have to teach you.


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## Luckydogg0404 (Oct 14, 2006)

Wow, devoting so much your time given on this earth trying to make yourself fell like a better person than me and being condescending. Hmmmm, you reckon i maybe had the thought cross my mind that the very personality type I originally posted about might respond in this manner, before I even posted? Naaaa,lol. I also never considered this the easiest way to discern between the "I'm better than you" posters and the descent thread-makers. To those of you that tried offere advice....point taken, but this post wasnt designed for you. To all of you that decided to resort to name calling, or with posts of pictures designed to belittle myself....kudos. You are exactly the personality type I posted about. Thank you for being so easily manipulated. I will not post anymore on this topic for I have achieved what I set out to do. Now for those that cannot let it go until they are convinced they have made themselves look superior....post on. Thanks for the laughs, lol^_^


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## Celtictigeress (Oct 14, 2006)

Well said all of you Heh Im speechlss (And that is quite uncommon for a Woman *giggle*)

Lucky you may not be here to "Mak friends" but you joined a forum obviously for interaction and advice, by being a caustic, lacivious vexation you are doing all but gaining people that will take you seriously and ultimately provide relevant information to perhaps sincere concern...you may not take us serious but before you become flexible by inserting both feet in Mouth someone a potential employer may have been on this site or may join this site and may recall you....Im not saying its 100percent but its a small world especially on the internet...

rather then eating humble pie and taking a Hint when the other thread was delted you chose to start another one..my advice?you realize the moderators may see this and stunts like this could very well get you banned from this site... Either deal with the comments and "chastizing" that comes with critisim for you bein an ignoranous...eat your humble pie cry me a river then build me a bridge and get over it....your childish antics are showing you are perhaps not matur enough to handle the profession of EMS because its students and "basics" IF you ever achieve the level that give those of us who study pursue and work a BAD NAME...cant handle the heat? get the Heck out of the kitchen...your sniveling attitude will get you nowhere grow up and move on


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## gradygirl (Oct 14, 2006)

Hey, usafmedic45, word of advice. If you want to make a point to Lucky, don't do it by using cheap shots. You're not making your point to anyone. And while some of those are funny, they are highly inappropriate, especially for the forum. A word for the wise, when trying to make a serious point, do so verbally, not graphically.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 14, 2006)

TCERT1987 said:


> Hey, usafmedic45, word of advice. If you want to make a point to Lucky, don't do it by using cheap shots. You're not making your point to anyone. And while some of those are funny, they are highly inappropriate, especially for the forum. A word for the wise, when trying to make a serious point, do so verbally, not graphically.


I figured I would address him at a level that he would understand, since apparently speaking like an adult to him would result in me being labeled a "meaniehead" just as has happened before by his own admission.


By the way, if I were trying to make a serious point, I would have done so with the written word, but in this case this is little more than the Internet equivalent of pointing and laughing at someone.


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## gradygirl (Oct 14, 2006)

usafmedic45 said:


> I figured I would address him at a level that he would understand, since apparently speaking like an adult to him would result in me being labeled a "meaniehead" just as has happened before by his own admission.
> 
> 
> By the way, if I were trying to make a serious point, I would have done so with the written word, but in this case this is little more than the Internet equivalent of pointing and laughing at someone.



Point well taken.


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## MMiz (Oct 14, 2006)

Okay, now this thread is *really* closed.  Sit down, take a deep breath, and then realize that throwing around insults on the internet was so 1999.

I would like to remind users that we do not accept insulting or attacking other members.  Let's all remember that this is the #1 online forum for EMS *professionals*.

Please do not start another thread


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