# Everyone is a paramedic.



## NomadicMedic (Apr 5, 2021)

Have you seen that the American Paramedic Association and the NEMSMA are pushing to change the nomenclature to call EVERYONE paramedics? In an article about COVID-19 vaccination guidelines, it states, "These guidelines are also among the first to incorporate the latest international professional nomenclature recommendations to reduce confusion and inconsistencies by using the all-inclusive title of “paramedic.”

"Using the title paramedic will help federal, state, and local officials and, more importantly, the public to better understand the role of paramedics nationwide by reducing confusion caused by the many different certifications or licensure levels across the country not meaningful to non-practitioners."

So, apparently we’re going down this road again.


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## mgr22 (Apr 5, 2021)

NomadicMedic said:


> [From the article:] "Using the title paramedic will help federal, state, and local officials and, more importantly, the public to better understand the role of paramedics nationwide by reducing confusion caused by the many different certifications or licensure levels across the country not meaningful to non-practitioners."



I think the opposite will happen if everyone is called paramedics.


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## GMCmedic (Apr 5, 2021)

I used to care because I worked hard to earn the title of Paramedic. 

Now........well now I have a lot more important things to worry about. What people call my profession doesn't crack the top 100.


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## E tank (Apr 5, 2021)

At the end of the day, would this become reality, the people that needed to know the difference would know the difference. No one really knows what paramedics actually do except the people that work with them, the lay public certainly don't and never will. 

Kinda like the term 'nurse'. LPN at a SNF, medical assistant at the doctors office, ICU nurse running ecmo and LVADs. It don't matter.

Dumb idea to do it on purpose tho...looks like a solution looking for a problem....


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## DrParasite (Apr 5, 2021)

Why not just call everyone EMTs?  

Does the EMR (emergency medical responder) get referred to as a paramedic too?

Personally, I think we should all be called ambulance drivers, even if we don't work in, on, or around an ambulance.  I mean, that's all the majority of the public thinks we do anyway


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## SandpitMedic (Apr 5, 2021)

Eh... not a fan.


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## MMiz (Apr 6, 2021)

I like it and have liked it for 20 years.  I think it's going to be important part of advancing EMS and our public image.

The public has no idea what to call EMS providers.  The news calls us ambulance drivers, emergency medical providers, EMS workers, etc.  I always thought the term "medic" was unifying.

LPN, RN, and BSN are all nurses.

DO and MD are doctors.

We should be medics.


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## CCCSD (Apr 6, 2021)

Nope. Just an attention grab.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 6, 2021)

The area I served as an EMT was 95% Spanish speaking.  We always found it easier to say, "Soy un medico" compared to "Soy un tenico emergencia de medico"


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## VentMonkey (Apr 6, 2021)

ffemt8978 said:


> The area I served as an EMT was 95% Spanish speaking.  We always found it easier to say, "Soy un medico" compared to "Soy un tenico emergencia de medico"


_Que perezoso..._

I agree with @GMCmedic, it matters to me personally less and less. With that, there are still numerous people for whom it does matter, and that’s ok too.

@E tank also made a valid comment. The general public will call us whatever they’re told to, or going to.

I think it’s fair when the news just calls us emergency medical workers. If you wanted to fancy it up you could call us emergency medical specialists, or prehospital specialists.

The pendulum of provider-levels both educationally and fundamentally varies so greatly, I think we all know the title itself is relatively insignificant.


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## CCCSD (Apr 6, 2021)

So you’re all EMTs. Let’s call us that.


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## mgr22 (Apr 6, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> So you’re all EMTs. Let’s call us that.


Not me -- I'm a pedestrian.


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## Aprz (Apr 6, 2021)

I like it, but I don't think it would really change anything. I frequently get people who call me EMT instead of paramedic. I get people who don't even know what a paramedic is. I think people wouldn't change their vocabulary even if we switched it.


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## Summit (Apr 6, 2021)

Well it was EMT-B, EMT-I, and EMT-P.
Then Paramedic was different.

In Canada everyone is a Paramedic, although a Primary Care Paramedic (their entry level) is more like an AEMT in scope but with 2 years of education.


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## EpiEMS (Apr 6, 2021)

Summit said:


> Well it was EMT-B, EMT-I, and EMT-P.
> Then Paramedic was different.
> 
> In Canada everyone is a Paramedic, although a Primary Care Paramedic (their entry level) is more like an AEMT in scope but with 2 years of education.



If it turns into something like the Canadian model of nomenclature, I wouldn’t be displeased. We’d have a little more consistency, which is a win, I suppose.

That said, changing the name is more of a “nice to have” - I’d rather see, as I’m sure most folks here would, broader reform. Maybe a name change is a catalyst? Maybe turning, say, the NREMT into the National Board of Paramedicine is the way this ends up?


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## Comfort Care (Apr 7, 2021)

ffemt8978 said:


> The area I served as an EMT was 95% Spanish speaking.  We always found it easier to say, "Soy un medico" compared to "Soy un tenico emergencia de medico"


"Mamita, Soy un conductor de Ambulancia" lol

I work in a similar demographic area and the elderly patients always call me "Doctor" because I'm a male with scrubs on. 🙄

During the wrath of covid,.I would always wear a  black scrub cap. One day I took care of spanish speaking patient for 12 hours and at the end of the shift she asked, " when will I see my Nurse?!" She though I was the Cook!! Yes, Cooks give IV insulin and Meds. Jajajajajaja🤣


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## VentMonkey (Apr 7, 2021)

el EMT said:


> "Mamita, Soy un conductor de Ambulancia" lol
> 
> I work in a similar demographic area and the elderly patients always call me "Doctor" because I'm a male with scrubs on. 🙄
> 
> During the wrath of covid,.I would always wear a  black scrub cap. One day I took care of spanish speaking patient for 12 hours and at the end of the shift she asked, " when will I see my Nurse?!" She though I was the Cook!! Yes, Cooks give IV insulin and Meds. Jajajajajaja🤣


If you ever spoke to a non-English speaking family member of mine this way we’d have problems. Don’t be a tool, be respectful.


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## Comfort Care (Apr 7, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> If you ever spoke to a non-English speaking family member of mine this way we’d have problems. Don’t be a tool, be respectful.


What part of this was tool-like or disrespectful? Our patient population is 90% hispanic and we call mostly all the elderly female patients " mamita". Its a term of endearment/ respect. Most of our staff are Filipino or Hispanic , myself included.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 7, 2021)

el EMT said:


> What part of this was tool-like or disrespectful? Our patient population is 90% hispanic and we call mostly all the elderly female patients " mamita". Its a term of endearment/ respect. Most of our staff are Filipino or Hispanic , myself included.


Hey man, it could be. I’m JS, it does not carry over well with every Hispanic  “demographic”, so be cognizant and aware.

Back on topic, yeah?


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## EpiEMS (Apr 7, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> The pendulum of provider-levels both educationally and fundamentally varies so greatly, I think we all know the title itself is relatively insignificant.


My understanding is that things are moving in a more standardized direction. It certainly looks that way - the 2020 National EMS Assessment (somewhat of a grandiose title for a big survey) shows that we have improved over the past couple of years (versus, say 2011's assessment, but 21 states are still identifying/licensing providers at a non-national certified level between EMT and Paramedic, not to mention all of the non-standardized levels above paramedic. Standardizing that would be an achievable win which could move us along the road towards a consistent nomenclature.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 7, 2021)

But will it finally remove ETI from the “basic paramedic” curriculum?...boom.

#MadSubthread#PotStirring


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 7, 2021)

I’m not particularly against it.


VentMonkey said:


> But will it finally remove ETI from the “basic paramedic” curriculum?...boom.
> 
> #MadSubthread#PotStirring


It probably should.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 7, 2021)

NomadicMedic said:


> I’m not particularly against it.
> 
> It probably should.


All kidding aside, it does lend credibility to the irrelevance of the job title in my opinion.

The layperson will still not care about anything but the type of customer service they’re provided, regardless of the “paramedic” who provides it.

Nothing new here.


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## EpiEMS (Apr 7, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> The layperson will still not care about anything but the type of customer service they’re provided, regardless of the “paramedic” who provides it.


That's true, but I'm curious what the impact would be on municipalities & their willingness to pay for levels of care if they can just say "paramedic-level" care.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 7, 2021)

EpiEMS said:


> That's true, but I'm curious what the impact would be on municipalities & their willingness to pay for levels of care if they can just say "paramedic-level" care.


I’d imagine billing would still be largely based on the services rendered. I can’t see how a loose-term title changes that.


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## CCCSD (Apr 7, 2021)

EpiEMS said:


> That's true, but I'm curious what the impact would be on municipalities & their willingness to pay for levels of care if they can just say "paramedic-level" care.


Sure makes FD look good...🙄


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## DrParasite (Apr 8, 2021)

to be perfectly serious, I would be ok with the term "medic" being used to describe any prehospital provider, from the questionably trained volunteer street medics that popped up during last years riots, to the critical care flight paramedic who can just look at a patient and get their heart starting again. an EMT would still be an EMT, a paramedic would still be a paramedic, and an ambulance driver would still be an ambulance driver, but they could all be called medic by the general public.

it wouldn't be e certification, but an umbrella term (like every suppression person on a FD is a firefighter, everyone in law enforcement is a cop, etc) that we could all fall under.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 8, 2021)

DrParasite said:


> the critical care flight paramedic who can just look at a patient and get their heart starting again.


Can confirm


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## StCEMT (Apr 8, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> But will it finally remove ETI from the “basic paramedic” curriculum?...boom.
> 
> #MadSubthread#PotStirring


I'll bite. With just how common VL is becoming, I'd still argue against it. At least at and between the 2 places I work, I don't know of anyone not using it. Both places I work had significant improvement in success rates using VL. High enough to have a valid argument for keeping it 

I could maybe go with not having DL as the first line option or even at all should a department go that route. I do think technology has improved enough that we don't have to reduce it down to a all or nothing scenario though.


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## FlorianFred (Apr 8, 2021)

I don't have any real standing to weigh-in on this -- so of course I will anyway.  I'm an EMR-trained person who also fights the occasional structure fire and does some MVA work (i.e., extrication and/or directing traffic).   I personally like the term "medic" as an umbrella term, although I wouldn't call myself that unless the whole pre-hospital crowd said it was appropriate -- I work close enough with EMT's, Paramedics and RN's (Air Med) to know that my training and experience levels don't really warrant any kind of title, nor is it even really comparable to the professionals.   The fire service is all volunteer in my county, but the medical services are contracted with a professional provider, so I'm an unpaid aspiring-professional.

That said, I'm usually (80% of the time) first on scene (rural area and only one ambulance to cover 450 square miles), and I run in with my medical bag, identify myself as a member of the fire department, and then provide the best care I can within my limited scope.  I also make sure they know the ambulance is on the way, and I try my best to prepare for their arrival (i.e., some medical history, a quick SAMPLE, vitals, license and medical cards along with collection of meds) -- worst case it keeps the patient and family busy while we're waiting for the ambulance, and best case is it gives the crew a little bit of help.    Most people around here don't really care who/what I am, I'm just "there", which means they or their loved one has someone else they can lean on.   But I have had the occasional person ask "what are you, a Paramedic?"  To which I answer, "no, I am a medical first responder, but the EMTs and Paramedics will be arriving soon in the ambulance....does he (or she) have any allergies?".  

I guess I really don't need to be called a "medic", although I'd be honored to be thought of as one.  To that end, I am planning on going for EMT training and will ultimately try to be NREMT certified -- perhaps still not a "medic", but closer than an EMR.  I'll probably always be a volunteer-amateur, but I would like to raise my skill set up to be as helpful as I can to the community.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 8, 2021)

StCEMT said:


> I'll bite. With just how common VL is becoming, I'd still argue against it. At least at and between the 2 places I work, I don't know of anyone not using it. Both places I work had significant improvement in success rates using VL. High enough to have a valid argument for keeping it
> 
> I could maybe go with not having DL as the first line option or even at all should a department go that route. I do think technology has improved enough that we don't have to reduce it down to a all or nothing scenario though.


I don’t disagree. But truthfully it being up to the agency’s medical director would require (rightfully so) extra training.

Usually these systems see the value in proper education. No problems here.

Nationally speaking why keep skimming over it? If you really “have to” intubate, take the time to seek that extra education.

To circle back, everyone can still be a “medic” with different skill sets respectively.


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## CCCSD (Apr 8, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> I don’t disagree. But truthfully it being up to the agency’s medical director would require (rightfully so) extra training.
> 
> Usually these systems see the value in proper education. No problems here.
> 
> ...


Circle back...so like...EMT Basic, AEMT, and Paramedic..??? 🤣🤣


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## EpiEMS (Apr 9, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> Circle back...so like...EMT Basic, AEMT, and Paramedic..??? 🤣🤣


Ultimately, I think that's the end state.

Just put Paramedic in front of it (not literally, but not so far off), e.g.: Paramedic, Advanced Paramedic, Critical Care Paramedic, like in Canada


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## StCEMT (Apr 11, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> I don’t disagree. But truthfully it being up to the agency’s medical director would require (rightfully so) extra training.
> 
> Usually these systems see the value in proper education. No problems here.
> 
> ...


To some degree. Maybe it's just because I grew up with the generation that was into video games and VL feels almost like a game, but it wasn't hard at all to pick up. I think options like the King Vision, Air Traq, etc need a lot more hands on time than a McGrath which doesn't really change much at all compared to other things that are available. 

Or just stop the skimming style of training and make it way more comprehensive from day 1. Looking back, I severely underutilized my OR and ICU time until I did my CCP program. I didn't know what I didn't know at first, the next go around I was at least more aware of I didn't know and what questions to ask.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 11, 2021)

StCEMT said:


> Or just stop the skimming style of training and make it way more comprehensive from day 1. *Looking back, I severely underutilized my OR and ICU time until I did my CCP program*. I didn't know what I didn't know at first, the next go around I was at least more aware of I didn't know and what questions to ask.


I think you’ve further illustrated my point.




EpiEMS said:


> Just put Paramedic in front of it (not literally, but not so far off), e.g.: Paramedic, Advanced Paramedic, Critical Care Paramedic, like in Canada


Agreed. As it stands now it serves mostly as a job title on any of my applications, and a means to support my family. What else matters?...


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## StCEMT (Apr 11, 2021)

VentMonkey said:


> I think you’ve further illustrated my point.


Yes, but I think a new approach to how things are taught can help that. When we look at these things as a skills check list, people aren't usually going to look beyond that. 

Have proper education goals in place for these rotations that go beyond x tubes and med pushes. Even though I didn't fully utilize them, I followed people who did teach me some good nuggets of information that brought value to what I was doing. That and I also think those rotations should have more time than they are given. I would love a week in both an OR and ICU.


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## johnrsemt (Apr 28, 2021)

To the Public LPN's, PVN,s, RN's, NP's etc are all Nurses:  but to the nursing profession they are not.  Just look at their nametags.
So who cares what the public calls us?  We know what we are


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## Emily Starton (May 10, 2021)

johnrsemt said:


> To the Public LPN's, PVN,s, RN's, NP's etc are all Nurses:  but to the nursing profession they are not.  Just look at their nametags.
> So who cares what the public calls us?  We know what we are


Yeah, you're definitely right! We've got our own roles, so they need to respect it.


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