# 911 vs IFT company



## BurritoEsteban (May 6, 2010)

ive been thinking lately a lot about switching over to a 911 company since the company i work with does pure IFT i feel like it becomes really routine compared to the different calls i would be getting if i worked for a 911 company. 

the reason why i wanna switch over to 911 is for the experience id be gaining for paramedic school, but the reason i wanna stay at IFT is the pay that there giving me which is way better than the 911 pay.

what do you guys recommend? 

thank you for any responses.


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## JPINFV (May 6, 2010)

What type of experiences are you looking for? The only expereinces that I can think of in regard to the greater LA area is pediatrics and major trauma. At least in Orange County, because of how it was set up, the IFT crews would, with frigening regularlity, have critical medical patients. In contrast, when I did my ridealongs, of the 4 calls I got with the 911 provider, 3 of them had the paramedics on scene first and the 4th one they weren't too far behind.


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## BurritoEsteban (May 6, 2010)

im looking for more emergency based experience with emergency personnel such as paramedics or RN's to help me a bit for medic school. at the company im working for right now its mainly discharges and dialysis calls which involve the same patient contacts everyday


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## Shishkabob (May 6, 2010)

I personally didn't spend 2 years getting my education to do non-CCT IFTs for the rest of my life.  

Granted, it's a job which is more than 10% of our country can say, and it's not necessarily a hard one, but it's not what I want to do, and am just doing it till I can find a 911, paycut or not.  Luckily, the local 911s actually pay more than the IFTs around here.  But I am using it as a learning experience, getting a bit more comfortable being a lone Paramedic, and I'm with a big company so lateral transfer isn't too hard.



I say stay with IFT through medic school as you wont be able to work as much, so you'll want to maximize the amount of money you make while in school. But alas, it's really up to you, and if you think 911 experience as an EMT on a medic truck will help, so be it, though you'll mostly be relegated to driving.   Atleast in IFT a Basic can get a decent amount of hands on time and you'll see more of the true medical side of EMS.


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## BurritoEsteban (May 6, 2010)

thats true but my company hired me as a driver aswell so i rarely get any patient contacts unless im paired with a driver which is willing to drive to. and the companies that do 911 around here pay less than the IFT companies. im thinking if i join a 911 company i wont be a driver right away and ill have more patient contacts that way with the medic in the back since the fire medics ride along if its an ALS call.

also i have only been working at the IFT company for 2 months and i dont want it to look bad on my resume.

thank you guys for the responses


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## atropine (May 6, 2010)

If your looking to go the fire route after medic school, then yeah you might want to try Care, or gerber just to see how the fire culture is, and do what the fire medics tell you. If thats not your thing then it really doesn't matter what you do before you hit medic school.


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## BurritoEsteban (May 7, 2010)

yea im gonna try togo fire route eventually. but after medic school i wanna work as a medic for a company that does 911 transport.


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## terrible one (May 7, 2010)

All you are in LA county is gurney jockey anyway. You aren't missing much, plus you don't want to pick up bad habits from LAcoFD. They love BLSing an ALS pt in the early morning.


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## BurritoEsteban (May 7, 2010)

haha well i dont know yet guys, im gonnna still think about it, because my emtb skills are extremely limited and i also feel like if i worked 911 id be able to use more of them than how i do now working for IFTs which i dont use o2 on a daily basis or suction or use opa's or npa's never even had the chance of using those before haha.


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## CAOX3 (May 7, 2010)

IFT will teach you about sick people.


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## ExpatMedic0 (May 7, 2010)

Go to 911.

Off topic, I have no clue what LA fire is like now but My Grandapa was LA fire, his Dad was LA fire, and my uncle was LA fire when they first started running ambulances.... How is there Paramedic system? I have herd bad things?

 What I can tell you as someone who did some IFT's for a while is that IMO it did not prepare me at all for real ALS emergency's.


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## 46Young (May 7, 2010)

You're at a regional disadvantage in that you won't be acting independently as a 911 EMT, just taking orders from a medic. However, you can make that work for you by doing call review with the medic (after the call, don't pester the medic with questions during pt care please) and learning what they found and why they did what they did.

On the one hand, it's said that you can learn more about sick medical pts when working IFT. The thing is, you haven't yet had the education to process what you're seeing at more than a basic's level. You might pattern certain pt presentations with certain histories, but not much past that. Routine IFT also leads to complacency. That, along with the company making you rush from pt to pt so they can clear the board, makes you eventually just get through the transports and not ask the nurses and such about the pt's conditions to learn more. 

On the other hand, when working 911 with a medic, you'll see what it's like to assess and draw your own conclusions about a pt's condition, not yet having the benefit of an in-hospital pt Dx prior to pt contact. In 911 your motivation, interest, and job satisfaction should generally be higher in most cases.

As far as financials, do you need the money, or not. That should be the tiebreaker if you're on the fence. Otherwise, I'd probably go 911 if I were in your shoes. Employers understand that many in EMS desire 911 over IFT, so the switch shouldn't raise any red flags on future job apps. If questioned, you could say that you didn't feel challenged in IFT and decided to pursue 911 to better yourself as an EMT and later as a medic.


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## terrible one (May 7, 2010)

BurritoEsteban said:


> which i dont use o2 on a daily basis or suction or use opa's or npa's never even had the chance of using those before haha.



depending where in LA you work you'll be lucky to do that. What you will get good at in LAco is standing around a lot and carrying pt's to the gurney. Fire would rather you throw out your back than theres


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## terrible one (May 7, 2010)

schulz said:


> How is there Paramedic system? I have herd bad things?




to put it simple the term "mother may I?" was coined in LA/OC


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## BurritoEsteban (May 7, 2010)

thanks you guys for all the help and advice. I think ima switch over to 911 soon then I feel like I will get some more experience there than in the IFTs I'm doing right now. ill keep you posted on my status.

hopefully I can switch over within 2 months


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## Rsion4191 (May 7, 2010)

Well , first off , before making any assumptions or criticisms . How long have you worked for IFT companies accumulatively ? Before switching over to 911 Transport , remember that although IFT might be routine & repetitive , it really does sharpen the medical side of your practice . Don't get me wrong , though . 911 also does . But , as an EMT-B , we really don't have much hands on material to work with because when medics get on-scene , they take over . I'm currently working as with an IFT company & you're right , it does get repetitive . But it really helps on understanding the processes of each diagnosis . But , if you're going for 911 . I'm all for it  I'll meet you there in medic school as well , hahah .


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## MusicMedic (May 8, 2010)

i think working IFT before working 911 is a good idea, as in IFT you learn alot about illnessess and the Nature of Illness. im currently in the same boat as you Esteban, i really wanna do 911 also as i wont feel like such a Taxi Cab driver in La County. 

But right now with the Market in CA, its almost near impossible to get into a 911 company


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## JPINFV (May 8, 2010)

Something else to think about, just because you're working for a 911 company doesn't mean you're on the 911 side of the company. All of those companies still run ambulances doing non-emergent transports. The only option, and this is only valid if you're looking for a fire job, is the ambulance operator position a lot of fire departments have. 

Huntington Beach's website has a good description of this type of program. 
http://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/go...tRecruitmentInformation/ambulance_program.cfm


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## Shishkabob (May 8, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> i think working IFT before working 911 is a good idea, as in IFT you learn alot about illnessess and the Nature of Illness. im currently in the same boat as you Esteban, i really wanna do 911 also as i wont feel like such a Taxi Cab driver in La County.



Except the EMT level of education isn't tailored to understanding most disease processes, so you're essentially looking at something without understanding what's going on, unless you have further education on pathophysiology or studied more yourself.


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## MusicMedic (May 8, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Except the EMT level of education isn't tailored to understanding most disease processes, so you're essentially looking at something without understanding what's going on, unless you have further education on pathophysiology or studied more yourself.



that is very true, i often times end up going to google and finding out what certain disease process are, but it really peaks my interest and makes me want to further my education


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## MusicMedic (May 8, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Something else to think about, just because you're working for a 911 company doesn't mean you're on the 911 side of the company. All of those companies still run ambulances doing non-emergent transports. The only option, and this is only valid if you're looking for a fire job, is the ambulance operator position a lot of fire departments have.
> 
> Huntington Beach's website has a good description of this type of program.
> http://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/go...tRecruitmentInformation/ambulance_program.cfm



yeah i have been looking at Ambulance Operator Poisitions, alot of them are on a hiring freeze though because of the economy. Glendale is hiring for AO's i am gonna take a shot at them but itll be hard because i dont have a clean driving record


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## Sasha (May 19, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Except the EMT level of education isn't tailored to understanding most disease processes, so you're essentially looking at something without understanding what's going on, unless you have further education on pathophysiology or studied more yourself.



As an EMT I still found working IFT to be really educational. But you actually have to put forth the effort to learn, you can't expect to put minimal effort in and for the education to magically come to you.

I carried around a little note pad and everytime I found something I didn't know I wrote it down to google later, or ask someone later. Worked well.


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## Pneumothorax (May 19, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> i think working IFT before working 911 is a good idea, as in IFT you learn alot about illnessess and the Nature of Illness. im currently in the same boat as you Esteban, i really wanna do 911 also as i wont feel like such a Taxi Cab driver in La County.
> 
> But right now with the Market in CA, its almost near impossible to get into a 911 company



not only this, but it gets u in the mode for how to deal with patients , being in the field writing reports all that "fun" stuff.

when you get to the ALS emergencies it will be second nature


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## jgmedic (May 21, 2010)

Or you can drive out to Riverside/San Bernardino counties and at least put in an app with AMR, there you will still have to do BLS IFT for awhile but you can pick OT on ALS units and have a medic partner, who may be more willing to help you learn and prepare, whenever I have an EMT who wants to be a medic, pt condition permitting, I let them do assessments and try to answer as many of their questions as possible.


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## MusicMedic (May 22, 2010)

jgmedic said:


> Or you can drive out to Riverside/San Bernardino counties and at least put in an app with AMR, there you will still have to do BLS IFT for awhile but you can pick OT on ALS units and have a medic partner, who may be more willing to help you learn and prepare, whenever I have an EMT who wants to be a medic, pt condition permitting, I let them do assessments and try to answer as many of their questions as possible.



im planning applying at AMR Riverside, i hear the EMT/Medics get to do alot more and pretty much run the scene 

as opposed to LA/Orange Counties where fire runs the scene


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## John E (May 22, 2010)

*It sounds like...*

you've already made up your mind. In your initial post you asked for advice, in every subsequent post you say that you're going to transfer or switch over.

You're in for a very rude surprise if you think you'll be getting any substantial patient care experience working for a so-called 911 company in Los Angeles county. At best, if you even get stationed at an active post you'll be tearing tape and opening packages for a Los Angeles County FD Paramedic. At worst, you'll be driving that same Paramedic and your more "experienced" partner while he or she tears tape and opens packages. You'll work terrible hours for less money than you'll make doing IFT's.

If your goal is to become a Paramedic, why bother switching, you're not gonna learn anything that you won't learn in Paramedic school and you'll be earning less money.

I wish that every EMT program in and around Los Angeles county were forced to explain how the EMS system actually works here instead of filling the heads of impressionable young people with the idea that they're going to be out there doing ALS procedures and saving lives on a daily basis.

Sorry if anyone considers writing frankly as "bullying", lifes tough, it's even  tougher when you make dumb decisions.

Good luck.

John E


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## looker (May 23, 2010)

If you want broad experience in the field, you should continue doing IFT. If you want to have only emergency experience, move to a company that mainly does 911. When someone is hiring either an emt or  paramedics there are some standard criteria that everyone looks at. What type of experience you had, how long you worked at one particular company, is your dl clean etc. Most of  us will also call your previous employer(s) and ask them if you're eligible for rehire and some other questions as you sign release for such info when you apply. The point is, having just 911 experience means nothing as company looks from many difference point of view.

Edit:Forgot to mention, please also learn how to write. Nothing makes billing and management more pissed then when every other word is misspelled and/or your hand witting is so bad that no one can read it(for those companys not doing electronic reports)


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## JPINFV (May 23, 2010)

looker said:


> If you want broad experience in the field, you should continue doing IFT.



Unless he gets hired at the fire department, all of the companies that provide 911 services also provides IFT services.


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## looker (May 23, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Unless he gets hired at the fire department, all of the companies that provide 911 services also provides IFT services.



True,but they do much more 911. As such exposure to IFT is much less


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## MusicMedic (May 23, 2010)

best thing to do is go to Riverside/Kern/San Bernardino county? 

hows EMS in San Diego County?


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## atropine (May 23, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> best thing to do is go to Riverside/Kern/San Bernardino county?
> 
> hows EMS in San Diego County?



It's ran by currupt corps, like AMR, and Rual Metro, a hand full FD's run their own ambulances.


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## exodus (May 23, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> best thing to do is go to Riverside/Kern/San Bernardino county?
> 
> hows EMS in San Diego County?



Fail! Fail! Fail! Fail! Fail!


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## MusicMedic (May 23, 2010)

exodus said:


> Fail! Fail! Fail! Fail! Fail!



So EMS in Southern California= Fail?


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## MonkeySquasher (May 23, 2010)

atropine said:


> It's ran by currupt corps, like AMR, and Rual Metro, a hand full FD's run their own ambulances.




Oh, were we about to bash Rural/Metro?   lol


Because i'd be cool with that..   h34r:


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## GhostEMT627 (Jun 12, 2010)

I guess that's kind of a drawback with my company. You make more doing IFT's than you do 911. So you have to take a sacrifice somewhere. Either less money for more experience, or more money doing something that in turn could get monotonous and less experience.


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## Focallength (Jun 12, 2010)

we typically get 20 + calls a day. We run IFT along with some hospital stuff prisons and private residences. We get more calls than AMR, the SNF and hospitals call us instead of 911. Trauma is rare, mostly geriatric and pediatrics medical calls, with a fair share of NICU calls. A lot of people put IFT down but we get more calls and more experience dealing with medical patients than any 911 company. We rival busy FD EMS units (sac metro gets less calls on average than our ALS rigs). Ive talked to AMR 911 medics and they typically get 10-20 calls a day and sometimes as few as 1 or 2. Of those maybe 1 (out of 20) are code 3 transports. our ALS rigs can get as many as 10 or more code 3 transports a shift. Even our BLS rigs get more calls than AMR and run more code 3 transports. 911 is the glory job, but you can get more experience working for a good IFT company. Just do some research get on with a larger company and dont be shy about asking what kind of calls they get. I was like a lot of others and thought IFT was a glorified bus driver. When I saw the call volume and saw how many code 3 transports they did in a day, I was overjoyed.


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## looker (Jun 12, 2010)

Focallength said:


> we typically get 20 + calls a day. We run IFT along with some hospital stuff prisons and private residences. We get more calls than AMR, the SNF and hospitals call us instead of 911. Trauma is rare, mostly geriatric and pediatrics medical calls, with a fair share of NICU calls. A lot of people put IFT down but we get more calls and more experience dealing with medical patients than any 911 company. We rival busy FD EMS units (sac metro gets less calls on average than our ALS rigs). Ive talked to AMR 911 medics and they typically get 10-20 calls a day and sometimes as few as 1 or 2. Of those maybe 1 (out of 20) are code 3 transports. our ALS rigs can get as many as 10 or more code 3 transports a shift. Even our BLS rigs get more calls than AMR and run more code 3 transports. 911 is the glory job, but you can get more experience working for a good IFT company. Just do some research get on with a larger company and dont be shy about asking what kind of calls they get. I was like a lot of others and thought IFT was a glorified bus driver. When I saw the call volume and saw how many code 3 transports they did in a day, I was overjoyed.



It all depend which area your company opeates in. Some areas do not permit ambulance to respond code 3 unless directed by emergency dispatcher or company dispatch that has 911 contract with the city. Other areas permit you to respond code 3 if you're contracted with that facility. So while your company does more 911 calls compae to amr that is not true in other areas.


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## JPINFV (Jun 12, 2010)

looker said:


> It all depend which area your company opeates in. Some areas do not permit ambulance to respond code 3 unless directed by emergency dispatcher or company dispatch that has 911 contract with the city. Other areas permit you to respond code 3 if you're contracted with that facility. So while your company does more 911 calls compae to amr that is not true in other areas.



I don't see anywhere where he talked about code 3 responses. Code 3 transports? Yes. Responses? No.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2010)

Focallength said:


> we typically get 20 + calls a day. We run IFT along with some hospital stuff prisons and private residences. We get more calls than AMR, the SNF and hospitals call us instead of 911. Trauma is rare, mostly geriatric and pediatrics medical calls, with a fair share of NICU calls. A lot of people put IFT down but we get more calls and more experience dealing with medical patients than any 911 company. We rival busy FD EMS units (sac metro gets less calls on average than our ALS rigs). Ive talked to AMR 911 medics and they typically get 10-20 calls a day and sometimes as few as 1 or 2. Of those maybe 1 (out of 20) are code 3 transports. our ALS rigs can get as many as 10 or more code 3 transports a shift. Even our BLS rigs get more calls than AMR and run more code 3 transports. 911 is the glory job, but you can get more experience working for a good IFT company. Just do some research get on with a larger company and dont be shy about asking what kind of calls they get. I was like a lot of others and thought IFT was a glorified bus driver. When I saw the call volume and saw how many code 3 transports they did in a day, I was overjoyed.



The hell?  10 L/S transports a shift?   

I've done 2.5 in the past 2 weeks, one was of an organ transplant and the other was a crashing CCT patient.  The 0.5 was for a canceled organ transplant.

I can't think of any reason for trucks to get 10 a shift for normal ALS?  Or are your ALS trucks also doing CCTs?



As for looker--- a dispatchers view on whether or not I should run code is moot... if I'm transporting and I deem it necessary, I have the green light.


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## JPINFV (Jun 12, 2010)

He's an EMT-B, so it's very much possible that he's being sent on calls, either because his county or company sucks, that he should never be sent on at all. As such, he arrives, assesses, determines immediate advanced care is needed, determines that transport time is less than paramedic ETA, and elects to transport in leu of calling paramedics.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2010)

I was reading the part where he said ALS rigs get as many as 10 L/S transports a shift :unsure:


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## JPINFV (Jun 12, 2010)

...and it's my turn to fail at reading...


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## looker (Jun 12, 2010)

Linuss said:


> The hell?  10 L/S transports a shift?
> 
> I've done 2.5 in the past 2 weeks, one was of an organ transplant and the other was a crashing CCT patient.  The 0.5 was for a canceled organ transplant.
> 
> ...


I was reading as responding as code 3. Yes once you got a patient it's totally your call, no question about it.


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## CAOX3 (Jun 12, 2010)

911 is a glory job?  Where?  Because there isnt anything glamorous about it here.

Crews respond to the hospital for three reasons. 

1. The person is sick 
2. The company requires it, because they dont have the adequate resources to cover their call volume 
3. The crew cant determine who is sick and who isnt.  

Unfortunaltley two and three are more common then one.

Trust me If your going on twenty calls a day then I would be willing to bet, based on my experience maybe ten of them actually need to go to the hospital and probably five need to go emergently.


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## Focallength (Jun 12, 2010)

yes we respond code 3, usually more often than we transport. We do alot of CCT and have numerous CCN's and even 2 fixed wing aircraft. We contract with numerous hospitals and are even the sole provider for NICU and peds for one major hospital. but the majority is responding to SNF and the like. Here a paramedic with 10 years on the job pulling 2 24's a week makes around 70k a year a emt with the same time in pulls about 50k. If your a captain it goes up from there. Its a good company, they pay low to start but if you do your time they pay well. I dont know about you but working 2-3 times a week and pulling in 70K plus is not bad. Most of the time we dont even deal with fire so we do all of the work, and every so often you get an on scene.


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## DrParasite (Jun 15, 2010)

wow you guys are amazing.  If I was a medic, you couldn't pay me enough to do IFTs.  considering most insurance companies generally will only pay for a BLS truck since the patients aren't really sick, just need to be transferred, I am shocked to see so many medics working IFTs.

I did IFTs for 3 months.  Good people, that was the only thing that made the job worth doing.  it bored me to death, and were were sent all over the state, often for a transport that took maybe 10 minutes.  and no, none of our patients were even close to sick.  

I went back to school to complete my degree, and ended doing IFTs (with some 911s) for another year or so, before getting a full time spot on a 911 truck.  I still work on the PICU transport truck once in a while, but if I never do another IFT I won't miss it.  

In my state (and most of the north east) medics don't do IFTs.  In fact, in NJ, they generally are in flycars, and only go on ALS criteria patients.  So in theory, they only see sick people.  

I recently left my original agency for another one that gave me better options.  so, to throw in on the whole L&S debate, we can do between 8 and 16 L&S responses to 911 emergencies in a 12 hour shift (with the slower out stations doing as few as 1 run in a 12 hour shift).  BLS handles between 10 and 20 L&S jobs in a 12 hour shift.


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## exodus (Jun 15, 2010)

Focallength said:


> yes we respond code 3, usually more often than we transport. We do alot of CCT and have numerous CCN's and even 2 fixed wing aircraft. We contract with numerous hospitals and are even the sole provider for NICU and peds for one major hospital. but the majority is responding to SNF and the like. Here a paramedic with 10 years on the job pulling 2 24's a week makes around 70k a year a emt with the same time in pulls about 50k. If your a captain it goes up from there. Its a good company, they pay low to start but if you do your time they pay well. I dont know about you but working 2-3 times a week and pulling in 70K plus is not bad. Most of the time we dont even deal with fire so we do all of the work, and every so often you get an on scene.



What company is this? You can PM me.


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## strangerdude88 (Jun 17, 2010)

BurritoEsteban said:


> ive been thinking lately a lot about switching over to a 911 company since the company i work with does pure IFT i feel like it becomes really routine compared to the different calls i would be getting if i worked for a 911 company.
> 
> the reason why i wanna switch over to 911 is for the experience id be gaining for paramedic school, but the reason i wanna stay at IFT is the pay that there giving me which is way better than the 911 pay.
> 
> ...



Your best bet is to get a job with McCormick, I did my ride along(Inglewood) while I was in EMT school with them and had non stop calls(2 GSW's in one day). I am planning to work with them soon. Good luck!


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## MDA (Jun 18, 2010)

strangerdude88 said:


> Your best bet is to get a job with McCormick, I did my ride along(Inglewood) while I was in EMT school with them and had non stop calls(2 GSW's in one day). I am planning to work with them soon. Good luck!



They aren't hiring. I've spoken with the operations manager/hiring manager  regularly and they aren't considering people until maybe after summer. I've been on the eligibility list (with prior experience) for a while.


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## MusicMedic (Jun 20, 2010)

MDA said:


> They aren't hiring. I've spoken with the operations manager/hiring manager  regularly and they aren't considering people until maybe after summer. I've been on the eligibility list (with prior experience) for a while.



yeah i hear they are Impacted with EMT's, there are wayy too many EMT's in CA right now....

ive had partners tell me a few years ago, you can walk into Mcormicks office and they would hire you on the spot... 

sigh i wish i started this earlier


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## looker (Jun 20, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> yeah i hear they are Impacted with EMT's, there are wayy too many EMT's in CA right now....
> 
> ive had partners tell me a few years ago, you can walk into Mcormicks office and they would hire you on the spot...
> 
> sigh i wish i started this earlier



I have a feeling it will be like this for a while. Basically until the economy recovers and unemployment drops enough, it will be impacted.


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## MusicMedic (Jun 20, 2010)

looker said:


> I have a feeling it will be like this for a while. Basically until the economy recovers and unemployment drops enough, it will be impacted.



id say untill the end of the year, but it seems like its SLOWLY getting better..


does anyone know anything about Hall Ambulance in Kern county? (bakersfield)

are they impacted with EMT's too? (Im guessing not as bad as OC/or La Counties)


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## Lone Star (Jul 4, 2010)

In the 'real world of private carriers', IFT's are the 'bread and butter' of the company.

It doesn't take a great deal of skill to stop bleeding, put the patient on oxygen and hold C-spine.

With the IFT, you are exposed to the 'medical side of things'; this is where most of the EMT-B crowd seems to have problems.

Another consideration is this; while attending school, you're going to be hard pressed between working, studying and class time.  The intelligent approach would be to stay where you KNOW you're going to make the most money, and have a schedule that can be altered to accomodate school/study time with no major complications.

9-1-1 calls are great for the 'adrenaline junkie', but by no means are they the end all/beat all of EMS.


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