# Hot Shot Crew



## Cake (Jul 7, 2010)

I realize this might be too fire related for this board, but I figured I'd give it a shot in this section.  Does anyone have any EMS experience working on a hot shot crew?


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## Aidey (Jul 7, 2010)

No but I've worked with them. 

Where I was all Hot Shot crews were required to have at least one EMT B on the team, although usually there were a couple. They carried a first aid kit, with some extra job specific stuff, like blister/foot care, OTC pain meds, burn dressings; you get the idea. 

The thing about the Hot Shot EMT is that that is their secondary role, they still have to be a fully qualified fire fighter and work with the team. So if you have no Wildland experience it can take 3-4 (or more) years to get on a team.


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## mycrofft (Jul 7, 2010)

*Sort of like Rangers.*

Prinicple is "Organic Capability".
EMS skills are a skill set, not necessarily a lifestyle, until you engage ethical and professional standards.


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## Cake (Jul 7, 2010)

from my understanding, hot shot crews are kinda seasonal?  im assuming these guys do the regular thing with their fire departments during the off season.  

what other kind of wildland experience do you mean? where would you start?


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## TransportJockey (Jul 7, 2010)

Cake said:


> from my understanding, hot shot crews are kinda seasonal?  im assuming these guys do the regular thing with their fire departments during the off season.
> 
> what other kind of wildland experience do you mean? where would you start?



Some of the Hot Shots that I knew in NM would work during the summer and have enough cash to live on the rest of hte year if they didn't go crazy


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## Aidey (Jul 7, 2010)

Cake said:


> from my understanding, hot shot crews are kinda seasonal?  im assuming these guys do the regular thing with their fire departments during the off season.
> 
> what other kind of wildland experience do you mean? where would you start?



You haven't met many Hot Shots have you? Most of them I worked with are not structural FFs, and would never ever be. 

Hot Shot crews are seasonal, but considering that the fire season starts at different times indifferent parts of the world a crew can be in operation for 6 months of a year if they get sent overseas. Like someone else said, some of these guys make enough money to last the rest of the year. 

You start as a grunt. A regular line FF on a Type II crew. Once you have done that, become physically fit enough, and obtained some of the extra classes and endorsements you may make a good applicant. You apply, and then wait. Unless a crew doesn't like a guy, they will usually re-hire the same guys over and over, so there may be some years when a team doesn't have any openings.


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## Cake (Jul 7, 2010)

Aidey said:


> You haven't met many Hot Shots have you? Most of them I worked with are not structural FFs, and would never ever be.
> 
> Hot Shot crews are seasonal, but considering that the fire season starts at different times indifferent parts of the world a crew can be in operation for 6 months of a year if they get sent overseas. Like someone else said, some of these guys make enough money to last the rest of the year.
> 
> You start as a grunt. A regular line FF on a Type II crew. Once you have done that, become physically fit enough, and obtained some of the extra classes and endorsements you may make a good applicant. You apply, and then wait. Unless a crew doesn't like a guy, they will usually re-hire the same guys over and over, so there may be some years when a team doesn't have any openings.



yeah, I dont really know of any hot shot crews out here on the east coast.  hell, without googling, i really dont think we've ever had a forest fire out here.  

so the first steps would be vol with a regular dept, take classes, get certs, and then apply?


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## Roam (Jul 8, 2010)

Hey Cake, Wildand FF are a completely different class than structure fire guys. Out in the west most of the FD train thier crews with the proper "S" classes. Unless your particular FD gives the S certification and can issue red cards then I would not use that avenue. Wildland FF are militaristic in nature with a very strong class structure. You will begin as a type II team in the line then the next season advance to a type 1 line team or an engine. After two more seasons have lapsed and you have proved yourself then you can apply to be on a hotshot, helitack, or smokejumper crew. Unless you are the absolute king of the mountain, work yourself to death, athletic stud FF you typically can't advance faster than this.

I have shot and jumper friends that regularly bring in 40-60K a season. I just work a month or two between school and can bring in about 5K on my engine. 

The other option is to apply as a line medic. Again usually it is a secondary task unless you can be part of a fire medical team, that is my next option. They are known as medical units and fall under the logistical section. 

The main thing to realize about wildfire is you need to have contacts. It is the people you know that will make or break your career in wildfire. My advise is to contact your local Fire Management Officer either in USFS or BLM. If your local college has wildland classes then you may get some information from them. Good luck!


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## Aidey (Jul 8, 2010)

A Type I team IS a hot shot team. I'm sure guys have moved from a Type II team to a Type I team after one season, but it's much more common for it to take a few more seasons than that. Helitack is a additional qualification that anyone can get, and you don't necessarily need to be on a Type I or II team to get it. It definitely helps, but it is possible to get on a Helitack crew without ever being a member of a Type I or Type II team. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotshot_crew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handcrew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helitack

If you really have a burning desire to be involved in Wildland fire I highly suggest you move to a state that has fires and has the resources. Montana, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, California (I don't suggest California). Arizona and New Mexico also have a number of fires, but it gets a little different down there since it's more brush than actual trees. 

The first step if doing the classes and getting your Red card (which is the card showing your qualifications). You can then apply for a Type II crew. Even if you get on the crew, it can be hit or miss whether you ever go on a fire or not. Once you have experience on a Type II crew and have had a chance to get some of the other endorsements, then you can apply to a Type I team and have some chance of getting hired. There are also colleges that offer degrees in Wildland FF, which can help you if you plan on making a long career out of it. 

If you are just interested in providing medical care to wildland incidents, and not actually being a FF then it gets even more hit or miss. There are a couple of programs that provide contract EMTs/Medics. A lot of times medical is provided by contracted ambulance crews from private agencies, or from other local resources.


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## medic417 (Jul 8, 2010)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cshackelford/25973250/

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/hotshots/

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDUQsAQwAw

http://www.blm.gov/es/st/en/fo/Jackson_Home_Page/jackson_hotshots.html


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## Roam (Jul 9, 2010)

Aidey said:


> A Type I team IS a hot shot team.



hehe, thats like calling a Paramedic a basic. Yes, one is an EMT-B and one is an EMT-P but a medic is a medic and a basic is a basic. If you ever want a spot on a shot crew never tell the sup you want on his type 1 team, I don't care what wikipedia says... (just trying to save your interview)

I don't think you need to move out west there are a great deal of crews back east. We have a lot of training in WF in Florida, Alabama, and Georgia. It is great area for burn practice because of the moisture content in the thousand hour fuels. I have attended great trainings back east and plan on some more this spring (med unit leader wahoo!). 

That being said yes, most of the good college programs are in the west but you don't need a lot of "S" classes to start. Really you only need the basics that can be done in a four day series. Of course it has been a while since my S-130 and you might double check on the course numbers and times...


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## fortsmithman (Jul 9, 2010)

Here in the NWT we don't call our firefighters hot shots we call them firefighters and their crews for the most part are IA (Initial Attack) crews.  I have numerous relatives who do fight forest fires every summer.  The IA crews don't have any type of EMS personnel assigned to them as all the crew members are all trained in St John Ambulance Standard First Aid/CPR.  My uncle retired from the crews last year he started fighting fires in 1957.  The age to join the IA crews is 16 to join the territorial IA crews (the age used to be 15) and Parks Canada is 18 to join their IA crews.


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## Aidey (Jul 9, 2010)

Hotshot is really just a nick name when it comes down to it. You could argue that they are a sup-type of Type I crew, but they are a Type I crew.

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/hotshots/IHC_hist.html



> The twenty-member Hotshot crews are often called Type          1 Crews, but are really Type 1 Crews-PLUS since they exceed the  experience,          training and physical fitness required for a Type 1 Crew.



One of the benefits of the NW over anywhere else is that there are less poisonous things that can crawl into your tent with you. Although I suppose you wouldn't even need a shower to rinse off in the SW since the humidity is so high.


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## Cake (Jul 10, 2010)

wow, I didnt realize how much I didnt know about hot shot crews.  

So for starters, you've got to WANT to do this job.  Its much more of a commitment to the mental and physical mentality than I thought.  I also didn't realize there were so many different levels, type I, II, III, etc- kinda gets confusing.  

So if this is a route I decide, it sounds like my best bet would be to start on a handcrew?  I have no fire experience, just a college degree in an unrelated field- would I have to take Fire 1/ be affiliated with a dept?  

I'm most likely moving out west within a few weeks, Utah/NM/CO area- for a career, but I don't think I'll be happy with it, and I like to get my research done ahead of time.  I'll work it an make the good money they're paying me, but I'd like to be setting myself up with as much training and certs as I can in the meantime.


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## Aidey (Jul 10, 2010)

Type I and Type II are really only ones you need to worry about. Type III crews are also known as "camp crews". They generally run the camps and do support work, and don't do any line firefighting. 

A piece of advice. Stop thinking that you need to do ANYTHING with a structural department to get into the Wildland business. Yes, there are people who do both, but it is not required and the two groups don't always get along. It is two completely different fields and environments. 

Getting on with a structural department who also does initial attack is one way of getting your Red Card and other basic certs. You also also do it on your own  by looking up the classes at the local BLM office.


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## TransportJockey (Jul 10, 2010)

Aidey said:


> A piece of advice. Stop thinking that you need to do ANYTHING with a structural department to get into the Wildland business. Yes, there are people who do both, but it is not required and the two groups don't always get along. It is two completely different fields and environments.



Bingo. Out in NM for the most part the crews DO NOT get along at all, with the exception of a small dept here or there that due to location sees an unusually high number of wildfires.


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## Cake (Jul 11, 2010)

So its not such a bad thing that I have no official fire dept experience?  I got my EMt cert through the red cross.


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## Incyder38 (Jul 11, 2010)

Just to clarify a few things regarding hotshot crews and EMT's....In Region 5 for the US Forest service (California) most hotshot crews are seasonal. Some southern forests like the San Bernardino, Cleveland and Angeles Forests staff their non temporary people on Fuels Crews during the winter.  They go out and cut brush and fuel breaks, do Rx Fire, fall snags, yada yada yada.  Type I IHC's (Inter-Regional Hotshot Crews) are a national resource.  They may be stationed in a particular forest, but they can be sent anywhere.  Including out of the US.  They started hiring more EMT's due to the nature of their jobs.  The Hotshot Crews drive drive drive and drive some more, and they found themselves coming up on TC's on the highway and medical aids in public areas.  For those of you who don't know what they do, it consists primarily of 16 hour days up to 14 days at a time.  They can work a 14 day assignment out of state, come home for 2 days and be right back on the road out of state again.  They pretty much cut fireline all day long, after hiking in to remote wilderness locations.  They do complex burning operations, cut down hazard trees, mop up, rehab dozer lines, scout, cut heli-spots, "coyote" out in the wilderness ETC.  It's awesome!  Sometimes though, they fly them in.  

Sleeping is usually a trial in and of its self, in the dirt quite frequently, and sometimes in a grassy field (it's luxurious) I can go on and on...just know that the work is very physically demanding, in very remote places that sometimes sometimes take hours to get to.  So they wanted EMTs on the crew who could initiate BLS, since historically they didn't have that.  Having EMT's on the crews also gave the line EMT's and paramedics access to someone who could give a decent patient report.  The crew EMT's can also assist in transport decisions for the use of aircraft and other creative methods.  Another reason we use EMT's on Hotshot crews, is because physically, these men and women are animals.  They are some of the strongest and fastest hikers you will ever find.  They can be broken away from their crews to assist on medical ids on other parts of fires, while still having the energy and wits about them to still make good clinical decisions and complete transports.

A whole slew of Hotshots have gone on to municipal fire departments and work on IMT's (Incident Management Teams) as line EMT's and Paramedics.  Their experience with Wildland Fire Management serves them well on these teams, as they return to the fireline with their past experience, along with more matured medical skills and levels.  It's a life changing program to be a part of, and anyone who is interested should stop by a Forest Service Hotshot Station, and get to know these people.  During the winter, if they are still staffed, a lot of them will take prospective candidates on their PT hikes, and let them see what being a Hotshot is all about.  The Forest Service is the only agency that employs Type 1 Hotshot Crews....you can be on a Cal-Fire Fire Crew, but you have to go to jail first and be accepted to their program with a history of good behavior.  

Just thought I'd offer my 2 cents on Hotshot crews.  It's one of the best jobs Ive ever had in the Forest Service.  When I am a Medical Unit Leader on my team, I like to utilize these guys, because they work damn hard and ask for very little in return, and I don't have to worry about them being out and about on the fireline.


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