# Religion in EMS



## Kendall (Jul 31, 2006)

This isn't exactly EMS humor, although I have my share of it. I want to share my experiences and my distateful colleagues. Too often I find myself the only one in a room not laughing because some EMT or paramedic cracks some discusting, distasteful and disrespectful joke about a call or one of their pt's. I'm one of the few people in my service who get through the life of EMS without cruel, racists and sexist jokes and comments. I have always been - and forever will be a devout chrisitan. 

I won't go into alot of detail, but I'd like other people to share thoughts about reliegion in EMS, and how it helps them cope with the stress and emotion of EMS. 

Food for thought...


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## fm_emt (Jul 31, 2006)

I'll just say this: this exact same topic devolved into a multi page *****fest on $OTHER_FORUM and aside from some heated opinions, not much came out of it. It certainly wasn't a humourous topic either.

There are a few things that we don't discuss at work - religion and politics.


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## Stevo (Jul 31, 2006)

i had to cuff a responder years ago for praying with his eyes closed on a call

we're paid to pay attention to the patient, you can pray, puke, cry, :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:, moan after the call

not during...

~S~


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## Wingnut (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm not sure why this is under humor, these topics never end up funny at all. Personally I won't discuss religion or politics for the obvious reasons and you might not get much of a response here, these things never bode well.


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## Kendall (Jul 31, 2006)

Fair enough. My bad. I didn't think it was that touchy...


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## MMiz (Jul 31, 2006)

I never discuss religion (besides teaching it) at work, and generally political discussions are kept to a minimal.  There is a time and place for those kinds of discussions, and I'm not sure a rig or a forum is the best venue.

Generally people are passionate about religion and politics, and I've only left political or religion debates feeling crappy.  Either someone insulted me, or I'm afraid I've insulted someone else.  There are exceptions of course, but I'm not touching this topic with a ten foot pole.  I'll have to call an ALS intercept on this one.


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## ffemt8978 (Jul 31, 2006)

Stevo said:
			
		

> i had to cuff a responder years ago for praying with his eyes closed on a call
> 
> we're paid to pay attention to the patient, you can pray, puke, cry, :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:, moan after the call
> 
> ...



Again, I'm finding myself agreeing with Stevo on this one.  There's a time and a place for everything, but it's not always when and where you want it.


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## Kendall (Jul 31, 2006)

I completely grasp what you're saying. I didn't mean to bring up an argument, just a discussion. Ovbiously, it's more delicate than I had anticipated. Let's just go ahead and delete the topic.


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## MMiz (Jul 31, 2006)

No need to delete it.  Even though I decided not to respond directly to the topic, some others may decide to add their take on it.


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## gradygirl (Jul 31, 2006)

All's I know is that I've been told that I'm going to hell so many times after talking to people about religion because I wasn't the "right" religion that I don't talk about it any more.


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## Kendall (Jul 31, 2006)

I don't mean to start any arguments, but that truly bothers me, when people force religion upon others. Religion is a set of beliefs and what beliefs a person has is their choice and no one has any right to say otherwise. If you want to be Christian, be Christian! If you want to be Bhuddist, be Bhuddist! If you want to be an aetheist, be an aetheist! I'm not going to stop you!


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## gradygirl (Jul 31, 2006)

Haha, amen to that! And I really don't care about being told I'm going to hell, because, if there isn't chocolate in heaven, then I'm not going.


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## fm_emt (Aug 1, 2006)

Kendall said:
			
		

> If you want to be Christian, be Christian! If you want to be Bhuddist, be Bhuddist! If you want to be an aetheist, be an aetheist! I'm not going to stop you!



What if you want to be a Canadian? :-D


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## Jon (Aug 1, 2006)

Kendall said:
			
		

> I don't mean to start any arguments, but that truly bothers me, when people force religion upon others. Religion is a set of beliefs and what beliefs a person has is their choice and no one has any right to say otherwise. If you want to be Christian, be Christian! If you want to be Bhuddist, be Bhuddist! If you want to be an aetheist, be an aetheist! I'm not going to stop you!


Amen!

I've worked with some VERY intresting partners... I've never had a problem discussing politics, and occasionally religion, with a partner while we are stuck sitting somewhere on post... I've had some intresting discussions, and some VERY intresting partners. 

_Bear in mind that I'm an obnoxious 20-something who knows everthing and is out to save the world from itself. (except I never got into the whole recycling thing )._



> What if you want to be a Canadian? :-D


Best. Line. Ever.!!!!


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## Jon (Aug 1, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Amen!
> 
> I've worked with some VERY intresting partners... I've never had a problem discussing politics, and occasionally religion, with a partner while we are stuck sitting somewhere on post... I've had some intresting discussions, and some VERY intresting partners.
> 
> ...


This also brings up another point... I was watching "Paramedics" last week and saw an episode that was filmed in Canada... where the Paramedic was praying with the patient... I'm not a big fan of that... I understand that some folks think/feel that a higher power is involved, but everything has its' place/time... and in the back of an ambulance with a guy who was shot ISN'T the place or time... REALLY!


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## Wingnut (Aug 1, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> This also brings up another point... I was watching "Paramedics" last week and saw an episode that was filmed in Canada... where the Paramedic was praying with the patient... I'm not a big fan of that... I understand that some folks think/feel that a higher power is involved, but everything has its' place/time... and in the back of an ambulance with a guy who was shot ISN'T the place or time... REALLY!


 
Whether you believe in prayer or not though, if it's going to make the pt and family feel better does it really hurt to take 30 seconds to say Amen with them?


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## IrishEMT (Aug 1, 2006)

I think the only religious thing I've heard done on a call was when one of my crew gave a sign of the cross over a young DOA, and I don't think anyone had a problem with it.


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## Kendall (Aug 1, 2006)

Absolutely, it has it's time and place. I've had a number of pt's ask me or my partners to pray with them (probably has something to do with 'St. John Amb...') but only if the pt. asks. 

Discussion can be great, so long as it's not an argument.


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## Anomalous (Aug 1, 2006)

We had a 3 month old SIDS patient that the mother had meant to get baptised.  One EMT performed the baptism with NS while the other two did CPR.  Don't know what her church thought of it but mom was VERY happy.

I've also prayed in the middle of a call, although I imagine points were taken off for using four letter words in the prayer.


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## Tincanfireman (Aug 1, 2006)

Would that be in the context of "dear God, just give us one :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: beat!"  Been there, done that...  =)


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## Celtictigeress (Aug 2, 2006)

Religion is touchy bcause so many think THEIR religion is the only right one...

Religion at work is like Religion at School..>With so many beliefs SOMEONE is bound to be insulted, if the family asks its one thing, But if your in a Non Christian Home and begin a Christian Prayer it may offend someone Yanno?

Wait until your alone and the Patint is where he BELONGS call over THN focus on your prayer.. I beliv whn with the pt your focus need be on the pt....

regardless you cant please everyone right???Someone will always be hurt or insulted a conversation like this will always be a lose/lose in a sens that One day itll be stumbled on and someones pantis will b in a twist


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## rescuecpt (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm a Christian.  If a patient is Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. and they want to pray or want me to pray with them - why not?  Who does it hurt?  If I don't believe in what's being said, I can either stay quiet, or say it anyway, if it doesn't mean anything to me, but it means something to the patient, then no harm no foul for me, and maybe it helps them.

I wouldn't initiate prayer with a patient on my own, but I have, a few times in the past 6 years, asked a scared patient if they have faith or if they are spiritual - most of the time they say yes and pray on their own - sometimes they say no and I leave it at that.  

Can't we all just get along?!


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## GaEMT (Aug 2, 2006)

OK   to play devil's advocate (no pun intended)   For all of those who do not wish to hear my religous or political beliefs, I do not care to hear your tasteless jokes.   Work is not the place for such things.   If my releigion offends you, sorry.   Have you ever gotten down off the soap box to think that some of the jokes you make may offend me?    There can't be a double standard............................


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 2, 2006)

GaEMT said:
			
		

> OK   to play devil's advocate (no pun intended)   For all of those who do not wish to hear my religous or political beliefs, I do not care to hear your tasteless jokes.   Work is not the place for such things.   If my releigion offends you, sorry.   Have you ever gotten down off the soap box to think that some of the jokes you make may offend me?    There can't be a double standard............................



This leads me to a question that I would, in all seriousness, like to ask.

I know the Constitution protects the freedom of religion and various other things, but can anyone tell me where it says you have the right not to be offended or upset?  

I think we have created this "right" in an effort to push certain veiwpoints on others under the guise of political correctness.  After all, you're free to believe whatever you want in this country but you are NOT free to push your beliefs on others.


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## GaEMT (Aug 2, 2006)

Please bear in mind you are also not free to insult others with tasteless jokes.   Last time I checked their is no constitutional right to not being offeneded.    I would think it would be part of being a member of society to think of others before saying something.  You don't want to hear my religion, I don't want to hear your jokes.....And I believe this was the original concept of this topic.  Just my thoughts..................

Bring on the flames........


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## c-spine (Aug 2, 2006)

TCERT1987 said:
			
		

> All's I know is that I've been told that I'm going to hell so many times after talking to people about religion because I wasn't the "right" religion that I don't talk about it any more.



/me agrees with Liese.


I'm not hugely religious, but as many have said, if it makes the patient feel better; I'll do what I can for them - even if it is saying a prayer.


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## fm_emt (Aug 2, 2006)

c-spine said:
			
		

> I'm not hugely religious, but as many have said, if it makes the patient feel better; I'll do what I can for them - even if it is saying a prayer.



<bad joke>
I prefer it when patients say "can you swing through a Taco Bell on the way to the hospital? It'll make me feel SOOOO much better!" I'm totally on board with them at that point. whatever it takes to help them out! :-D

Besides, add some of that "Fire" sauce and I'm praying to $DEITY anyway. 

</bad joke>


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## Anomalous (Aug 2, 2006)

Tincanfireman said:
			
		

> Would that be in the context of "dear God, just give us one :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: beat!"  Been there, done that...  =)




Exactly what I meant.  Of course there is the ever popular Shepard's Prayer spoken into an open mike by Alan Shepard aboard Freedom 7 as he was about to be shot into space...   "Please, dear God, don't let me f*** up."   I've also used that one accidently, but of course apologized later.


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## Stevo (Aug 3, 2006)

> We had a 3 month old SIDS patient that the mother had meant to get baptised. One EMT performed the baptism with NS while the other two did CPR. Don't know what her church thought of it but mom was VERY happy.



that's a good one, an extrodinary circumstance where you and your crew went the extra mile to include something to make your patient (in this case, the mother) feel better





> I've also prayed in the middle of a call, although I imagine points were taken off for using four letter words in the prayer.



i think most of us have begged/cursed our diety , maybe even in the same breath, during our tenure

He's a slacker imho 

that said, has anyone else here found out how detrimental it is to roll up on something really bad and utter "Oh God" ?





> Bring on the flames........



while i agree good taste should previal, i could care less if any religmo is offended, in fact seeing as religion is the A#1 killer of mankind, and constitutes just about every conflict throught our sorrid history , i figure you deserve a little flack

i'd also like a little legislative backup, you know how the public is informed of sex offenders that take up residence in one's nieghborhhood ? well i would like notification of a Roman Catholic church's setting up shop _anywhere_ near mine, thanks

~S~


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## gradygirl (Aug 4, 2006)

Stevo said:
			
		

> i'd also like a little legislative backup, you know how the public is informed of sex offenders that take up residence in one's nieghborhhood ? well i would like notification of a Roman Catholic church's setting up shop _anywhere_ near mine, thanks




I soooooooo agree with you. I'm an Episcopalian, so I've heard a lot of flack from people about our gay bishop. I just look at them and say, well, at least he's _open_ about it. :glare:


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 4, 2006)

Please don't confuse religion with denomination ( i.e Muslim, Christian, Buddha versus Baptist, Catholic, etc..) 

It amazes me what little training and education EMS provides responders on faith. Comparison to nursing, where many weeks, and in-depth studies. Faith, (no-matter what denomination, religion) is important part ot one beliefs system and as well as healing, psyche, and emotional lability. 

We need to be aware not only of our patent's physical needs, but emotional needs as well.. remember the old saying...." You can't cure them, if they don't have faith or trust in you".... 

R/r 911


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## Stevo (Aug 4, 2006)

> We need to be aware not only of our patent's physical needs, but emotional needs as well..



iirc, the word is _reverent_ *R/r 911*, and you do have a good point when it comes to a patient (the whole patient that is) needs

i guess as long as whatever they wished for didn't interfere with what is typical patient care i'd play along, just leave out the funny hats

still, i can think of a number of stumbling blocks to this, for instance Christian Science or Scientology , possibly others as well, maybe some of you have had to deal with religous requests that sidetrack mainstream sop's ?




> Please don't confuse religion with denomination



or simply religon with faith

i've always felt religon is man's interpetational snafu of the purity of faith

in fact , my fav bumper sticker is.......

GOD SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS

~S~


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## Stevo (Aug 5, 2006)

here's an example of what i'm sure would be a hard call to mitigate....

A 2½-year-old boy becomes ill. His parents, David and Ginger Twitchell, do not seek traditional medical assistance. Instead, as members of the Christian Science Church, they rely on prayer and faith as their church teaches. Several times the child appears to get better, so the parents believe their prayers and the prayers of the Christian Science practitioner with whom they are consulting are working. 

Robyn Twitchell dies on April 8, 1986, of peritonitis from a congenital bowel obstruction after five days of being ill. The parents are charged with involuntary manslaughter.

clicky

~S~


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