# What are we attracting to enter EMS?



## Ridryder911 (Sep 26, 2008)

After reading multiple posts on EMS forums, from the _"Not wanting to be touched", "Paramedic steals body parts" to " I don't want to have to attempt to resuscitate anyone" _. It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession? 

Unfortunately, we (instructors) know that when the NREMT made a statement that _"many are now attempting to enter EMS, when they fail the fries section_" ... they were not joking. From either the formal NASA rocket scientist that retired or the one that has ran out of options. 

Are people entering for the right reasons? Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career? Should we allow anyone to enter? Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic? Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations?  What they expect and what it really consists of is much different? 

Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?


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## firecoins (Sep 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Are people entering for the right reasons?


what are the right reasons? 



> Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career?


 No.  People should allowed to study EMS for whatever personal reasons they want. 



> Should we allow anyone to enter? Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic?


 We don't get enough education.  Education should be the "barrier".  Basic EMT should be a 2 year course with paramedic a 4 year course.  



> Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations?  What they expect and what it really consists of is much different?


I am always skeptical of people wanting to alter "expectations".  More ride time in classes should be done to see if the person likes what we do.  
Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?[/QUOTE]


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## reaper (Sep 26, 2008)

The problem is the "mills". They take anyone that applies. There is no more interview process, where only the best candidates get to go on. There is no problem screening people for EMS work. PD's screen their applicants. They preform psych evaluations and major background checks. This is what our schools should be doing. Not letting anyone who wants to go, take the class.


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## Hastings (Sep 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Are people entering for the right reasons? *If you mean Paramedic school / Paramedic profession, most are not. In my personal experience, most are aspiring firefighters wanting in because it's an "easy" job where they can hang out, eat, sleep, and fool around all day and go be the badass hero occasionally.* Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career? *Absolutely. Actually, there WAS a screening process for Paramedic school here, but I was still very disappointed with the amount of I-don't-care-about-people-I-just-want-to-be-the-cool-hero types that made their way in.* Should we allow anyone to enter? *No.* Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic? *No, it sadly wasn't.* Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations? *Yes, we are. Needs to stress less the hero and glory aspects and more the public servitude and personal relations aspects of it. Need to stress what this job really is.* What they expect and what it really consists of is much different? *Much different. Rescue Me, anyone?*
> 
> Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?



Don't hold off on your comments. I don't necessarily agree with you on most topics like others do, but I am disappointed with those around me. I feel like the profession that I chose for the RIGHT reasons (I wanted to spend time with the public, interact with the public, help the public) is being degraded and thought of as a joke because it's overpopulated by those defaulting in on an expectation of being able to sit around all day and get paid to watch TV. I'd like to be respected and viewed as someone that really cares about the public and wants to help. Not someone that will unhappily show up at a scene and unhappily treat a patient as quickly and recklessly as possible so I can return to the station and finish watching the game.

I want to blame the Firefighters for that attitude, because it's a huge part of my personal experience, but I want to note, to be fair, that there exists the same kind of person in the private sector. Just not as many, it seems. I just don't believe EMS should be part of Fire departments. When I used to do my ride alongs at the fire stations, the firefighters would actually play rock-paper-scissors to decide who would ride as a medic that day. Whoever lost would grumble unhappily and in anger, throw their gear in the back of the ambulance, stomping back into station mumbling angrily under their breath. And trust me, that didn't try very hard to hide these feelings from the patients either. This was a better fire service too. And, of course, any new employee would find themselves riding the ambulance (unhappily) for several years before even being considered for fire.

I just think a lot of the problem has to do with: 

1. unrealistic expectations of it being an easy career where you get paid to sit around most of the time and be a hero the rest of the time.

2. EMS now being an undesired stepping stone of the Fire profession and aspiring firefighters being unhappily forced to participate in EMS when they really quite honestly aren't interested in medicine at all.

How to fix? Make EMS a medical profession. Strictly. Stricter guidelines on who enters the field. Interviews, explanations on the average day of a paramedic. Less of the cardiac arrest saves that never happen, and more of holding a dying woman's hand, sitting down with and comforting that SIDS family, being insulted and thrown up on by the drunks, etc, etc. We're not on-call heroes. We're public servants. Make sure people know that going in.


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## traumateam1 (Sep 26, 2008)

I have mixed feeling about this Rid. I know that there are people out there that love EMS and love helping people, regardless of having to attemp another  resuscitation, being touched, being barfed on, and being sworn at by family for 20 minutes. But I also know that there are people out there that get their EMT-B so they can drive by a friends house in an ambulance with lights and sirens and then get to the p/t's side and not really give a rats a$$. 

_"Are people entering for the right reasons?"_
I don't know, some are, some aren't.. it's hard to tell until you work with them for a while.

_Should we allow anyone to enter? Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic?_
Well.. not anyone (40 y/o crack heads, etc) but I do believe that we should let anyone who wants to learn to be a paramedic should. It's pretty easy in class to see if someone just wants to drive code 3 or if they actually want to help people.

I do agree that many people have entered EMS for the wrong reasons, but who are we to judge? Who are we to say that someone is in it for the wrong reason? Unless someone tells us that they just wanna drive fast than who are we really? It's an issue that my partne (business lol) are having because we want to hire more people but are having a heck of a time finding the "right" people.


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## BEorP (Sep 26, 2008)

Does it matter if someone is in it for the right reason as long as they provide adequate care to the patients?

A hypothetical:
What if I am just in EMS for the money? Should I not be working as a medic even if I am providing care as good as or better than that of my colleagues?


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## Hastings (Sep 26, 2008)

BEorP said:


> Does it matter if someone is in it for the right reason as long as they provide adequate care to the patients?
> 
> A hypothetical:
> What if I am just in EMS for the money? Should I not be working as a medic even if I am providing care as good as or better than that of my colleagues?



In EMS for the money?

Impossible.


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## SmokeyBear (Sep 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession? ...Are people entering for the right reasons? Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career?..



There are *nuts in every profession.* Not to get political but look at some of the *clear* psychopaths in Washington DC.  I would like to say that everyone in this field has good intentions, a clean background and a good mind however that isn't the case.  As far as the news, IMHO it only appears to be "getting worse" because the world of the media is larger than it ever has been in history. Civilians are on information overload, getting stories form every field and news from every possible source.


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## SmokeyBear (Sep 26, 2008)

Hastings said:


> In EMS for the money?
> 
> Impossible.



You owe me a new keyboard and a cup of coffee (when we can afford it)


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## Jon (Sep 26, 2008)

BEorP said:


> Does it matter if someone is in it for the right reason as long as they provide adequate care to the patients?
> 
> A hypothetical:
> What if I am just in EMS for the money? Should I not be working as a medic even if I am providing care as good as or better than that of my colleagues?


But you aren't in it JUST for the money.. you also want to "do right by your patients" and be a good provider.

We all need to do that.


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## BossyCow (Sep 26, 2008)

It's not enough to set standards if the standards will not be enforced. There will always be those willing to pencil whip a training in order to put someone with a pulse behind the wheel of the ambulance.

No matter how high a standard we set, there will be those who will hire the ones who passed with a D on their 4th stab at it. Integrity is internal. I don't believe the desire to improve, educate and excel is something that can be mandated. 

To say that higher educational standards is going to be the solution ignores the plethora of barely competent RNs that we've all seen, or the offshore med school grads that keep the personal injury lawyers in new BMWs. I think those of us who care have to set a personal standard and do what we can to ensure that those standards are met by those we hire, train and recruit.


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## gillysaurus (Sep 26, 2008)

I think they should require, at the very least, college anatomy and physiology to enter Basic school. At most universities, getting into A&P also requires at least a semester of college biology and chemistry. 

I can see part of why they don't now. Almost a full year (or more) of science classes just to get to be an EMT-B is expensive, and to most, not worth it. But think of how committed the people who actually go through the whole program would be, and how much better EMTs they would make. Now, in Basic class, they teach you the basic musculature, skeletal system, and cardiology of the human body. Maybe more if you're lucky. And even then, you're taught to mostly memorize these parts, not how or why they work. Nobody, without a basic knowledge of A&P, could really understand why a stretching of cardiac muscle leads to CHF or how rigor mortis sets in. Does not having that knowledge affect how someone would treat a patient? Heck yes it would!

I can't comment on how bad a group of people EMS is attracting. I haven't been in the field long enough to see the very best or the very worst. Nor do I consider myself a good enough basic yet to even know. But I know I would trust an EMT who took basic courses in human anatomy, physiology, and biology WAY more in every way.


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## taporsnap44 (Sep 26, 2008)

I don’t post here much but this is something that I have been reading with some of these posts and really couldn’t believe it. Patient contract is probably the major role of an EMT or paramedic that includes providing a shoulder to cry on or holding the hand of a scared patient, or even letting them rub your knee. I am currently halfway through my basic class which is not nearly the experience many have on this board but of the eight people in my class six probably should just quit, they either have no communication skills or a very lazy attitude, I felt terrible for getting an 89% on my last exam because I knew the questions I missed, and then come to find out that 89% was class high by a good 10 points or more. People should only pursue this career be it a basic or paramedic level if they truly have the desire to help people and put their own comfort level behind them and stand up and provide the best care to their ability. Luckily for me my instructor can see who cares and he is a big proponent of professionalism and the parts of this job that are not glamorous and its not what you see on TV. So to answer your question Rid, there absolutely should be screening, interviews, and whatever else it takes to get the right people into this profession. Just my .02


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## rmellish (Sep 26, 2008)

Hastings said:


> 2. EMS now being an undesired stepping stone of the Fire profession and aspiring firefighters being unhappily forced to participate in EMS when they really quite honestly aren't interested in medicine at all.




This is huge. Some of the best paramedics I know are on the Fire side, but there's also plenty of them who have limited interest in medicine and would much prefer to work on an engine or ladder all day. This is fine, it's their interest. It's the departments which put them in a position which requires them to become paramedics or stop advancing in the department. Even in my hometown of less than 20k all firefighters are required to become paramedics within three years of hire. 

I think it's a lack of education on a civic level which causes cities to consolidate EMS under the auspices of the fire service. I'd be interested to read a long term quality or performance assessment comparing an EMS only agency with a Fire/EMS service.


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## daimere (Sep 26, 2008)

What annoys me about my EMT class is that I honestly believe there are less than 5 people who are in my class of 25 for EMS.  Everyone else wants to eventually become a firefighter.  There are some guys that hardly show up to class and others that are always late.  It's obvious that most these people don't care about this class cause they always beg to go home early and talk in the back of the class.  I really believe my level of learning could be higher if it wasn't like this.  We are split into groups and I believe half the reason that my group excels more than the rest of class because half my group wants to be here for the EMS aspect, not fire.


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## Hastings (Sep 26, 2008)

daimere said:


> What annoys me about my EMT class is that I honestly believe there are less than 5 people who are in my class of 25 for EMS.  Everyone else wants to eventually become a firefighter.  There are some guys that hardly show up to class and others that are always late.  It's obvious that most these people don't care about this class cause they always beg to go home early and talk in the back of the class.  I really believe my level of learning could be higher if it wasn't like this.  We are split into groups and I believe half the reason that my group excels more than the rest of class because half my group wants to be here for the EMS aspect, not fire.



Was the same for my class. 3 out of a group of 33 who were NOT aspiring firefighters. The rest had close to no interest in medicine; just doing a prerequisite.


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## firecoins (Sep 26, 2008)

SmokeyBear said:


> Not to get political but look at some of the *clear* psychopaths in Washington DC.



As oppossed to the murky psychpaths some may settle for?:sad:


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## John E (Sep 26, 2008)

*Seems like...*

the folks who are taking the classes only as a prerequisite for something else or who are on a firefighting path won't be working in the field anyway, so let em sit in the back and talk so long as they don't disturb the actual students.

Hell, let em sit in a separate group and chatter away, just make sure that they have to pass the same tests if they expect to pass.

As for who's attracted to EMS, what's wrong with being in it for the money? No, seriously, I'm paid very well for the job I do, my pts. seem to appreciate my efforts as do the companies who hire me and I take a great deal of enjoyment from the work. A win-win situation. The fact that I demand to make a livable wage for doing a professional job is part and parcel with doing the job itself. If people expect professional treatment, they have to pay for it.

As for enforcing educational standards, absolutely. The current efforts of the NREMT to enforce accreditation standards will improve EMS for all parties and will result in higher pay as well. 

John E.


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## VentMedic (Sep 26, 2008)

John E said:


> the folks who are taking the classes only as a prerequisite for something else or who are on a firefighting path won't be working in the field anyway, so let em sit in the back and talk so long as they don't disturb the actual students.
> 
> Hell, let em sit in a separate group and chatter away, just make sure that they have to pass the same tests if they expect to pass.
> 
> ...


 
If only that was true! Did you read the news article about the Naples FFs? Probably 60% of our FD trucks are ALS engines and ladders with at least 2 - 4 medics on board. Unfortunately they do have access to drugs and just as unfortunate they did not take their education serious enough because the medical part was not stressed. 

If the Paramedic classes are being taught in medic mills by other poorly educated Fire Medics, the class will be more poorly educated Fire Medics (or other if they happen to be in that class). Then, graduates from that class can quickly advance to training officer or class instructor to continue a downward pyramid. Since this trend started in the late 80s, those of us who were educated prior to that have been witness to this. 

I don't mean to rag totally on Fire Medics but some are neither good medics or good FFs. The professional FF has just as much to worry about with a poorly trained half-arsed FF covering his/her back in a dangerous situation. 

It is a good paying job in some areas when compared to other tech jobs. That is why Oakland, CA FD had 10,000 applicants for 20 FF positions. And, they did not have to be a Parmedic which was a good thing considering some of the applicants' qualifications or lack of.


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## daimere (Sep 26, 2008)

In the large city next to me, the paramedic firefighters tend not to wear BSI or give ample  C-spine to patients.  One of the EMT students fractured a foot and had to have them called.  She turns to her side, with her arm spewing blood and he didn't have gloves on or anything.


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## MSDeltaFlt (Sep 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> After reading multiple posts on EMS forums, from the _"Not wanting to be touched", "Paramedic steals body parts" to " I don't want to have to attempt to resuscitate anyone" _. It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession?
> 
> Unfortunately, we (instructors) know that when the NREMT made a statement that _"many are now attempting to enter EMS, when they fail the fries section_" ... they were not joking. From either the formal NASA rocket scientist that retired or the one that has ran out of options.
> 
> ...



1. Some yes.  Some aren't.  The others aren't sure.

2. If you start doing that, then the shortage will exacerbate.

3. Not those who get queezy at the site of blood.

4. Not technical enough would be more appropriate.

5. Yes.  Hence the term "Paragod".


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## pumper12fireman (Sep 26, 2008)

I believe a lot of people are entering this profession for the totally wrong reasons. Mainly, "to get a fire job". I have heard this SOOO many times it makes me wanna puke. I come from a fire background. Did I use my paramedic education to go somewhere that doesn't even transport?? NO. These guys coming through fire academies are having it drilled into their heads that you "gotta go medic to get a job". Most of these firefighters don't want anything to do with patient care. They want to ride the fire rig, fight fire, and get that extra little stipend. 

There was a relatively tough screening process to get into my medic program. However, compare that process to a nursing school or med school process and it was pie. And we're in charge of patient care decisions much more than nurses and work in shi**ier conditions than docs. More education is needed. Period. This would benefit many angles of the profession, including keeping out those that just want to drive an ambulance, or wanna be a "hero".


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## Sasha (Sep 26, 2008)

I think a lot of shows like Rescue Me are glamorizing EMS. It looks like a bunch of sex with nurses, hanging around the station kicking back, and heroic acts. They show the life and death decisions, dramatic CPR and carrying helpless women out of burning buildings.

It doesnt show the little old ladies who call EMS out simply because they want someone to remember they are still there, and they want to talk about old times, nor does it show the vomit, blood, guts, and general ickness of patient contact, the drunk guy groping on you while youre trying to take a BP or the narc OD patient who just got a dose of narcan and comes up swinging.

 I have met a lot of people who are in EMS simply because its a cool job and dont care for the patient at all. They want the discounts at fast food places from stopping by in uniform, or to be able to get a little high off that god complex.

I think there should be some kind of screening about who they let into EMT school, also people should be fully informed what to expect pay wise so they dont gripe about it later, and should learn what is REALLY expected of them out of patient care and get a good grasp over the fact its not simply popping in an IV and pushing drugs, its smiling and laughing with them to put them at ease and holding their hands while they drive off to the hospital. 

And its physically demanding. I see a ton of EMTs and medics who cant lift worth crap because they are jello arms!


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## Hastings (Sep 26, 2008)

Sasha said:


> And its physically demanding. I see a ton of EMTs and medics who cant lift worth crap because they are jello arms!



Since I apparently provoked a Paramedic vs Firefighter discussion, I find it fair to note that this is one area where Firefighters rock. I don't have to lift anything. That's what the firefighters are for. 

Firefighters shouldn't be providing patient care, but if they want to help me load up a patient, I'm all for it.


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## mycrofft (Sep 26, 2008)

*Great question!!*

It takes all sorts, but some sorts a lot less than others.

Firefighters should never be required to be formal EMS...yet, the majority of fire dept calls involve EMS without fire. How about splitting EMS off the FD's...no, wait then they lose all that staff and money and admin positions. My ducats, my daughters...

Training can be part of the screening, but the probie period tells much more, and also is the point where you start really learning. I've seen screwy ba$t$&ds give excellent care under high duress, and very good techs/paramedics who can only operate in a parlor. Both are needed, both need good partners (not coworkers) to complement and supplement their talents and quirks.


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## Flight-LP (Sep 26, 2008)

Hastings said:


> Since I apparently provoked a Paramedic vs Firefighter discussion, I find it fair to note that this is one area where Firefighters rock. I don't have to lift anything. That's what the firefighters are for.
> 
> Firefighters shouldn't be providing patient care, but if they want to help me load up a patient, I'm all for it.



Touche!!!!


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## Flight-LP (Sep 26, 2008)

Sasha said:


> I think a lot of shows like Rescue Me are glamorizing EMS. It looks like a bunch of sex with nurses, hanging around the station kicking back, and heroic acts.



Hold on a sec.......So your saying we can't have a bunch of sex with the nurses?????? DAMN! There goes my idea.................

Keep it on the down low and break it to Rid gently.........I know he was hoping that nursing degree gets him somewhere in life!


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## Hastings (Sep 26, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> Hold on a sec.......So your saying we can't have a bunch of sex with the nurses?????? DAMN! There goes my idea.................
> 
> Keep it on the down low and break it to Rid gently.........I know he was hoping that nursing degree gets him somewhere in life!



Totally off-topic, and I apologize greatly, but I wanted to note that that's my greatest disappointment about EMS. It's not that most calls are dirty, repetitive, or unpleasant. It's that every single attractive female in a hospital is married or engaged. Seriously.


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## mycrofft (Sep 26, 2008)

*Heck, nearby we had a couple fire stations cut out the middle(wo)man*

Caught having orgies. Got a new fire chief out of that one.

Seriously, I saw many excllent firefighters who were chopped off when EMS came onto the scene and then became mandatory. Been on both sides. 

(Did my first sentence make this all sound sorta doubly entendred? Sorry, puns NOT intended).:blush:


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## pumper12fireman (Sep 27, 2008)

Hastings said:


> Totally off-topic, and I apologize greatly, but I wanted to note that that's my greatest disappointment about EMS. It's not that most calls are dirty, repetitive, or unpleasant. It's that every single attractive female in a hospital is married or engaged. Seriously.




Mine too!!!! And there's a damn good reason for that, I think. I guess you gotta catch them while in nursing school...


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## Hastings (Sep 27, 2008)

pumper12fireman said:


> Mine too!!!! And there's a damn good reason for that, I think. I guess you gotta catch them while in nursing school...



Interesting theory. R/R? Well...?!

I'll try it out. Let ya know.



...I'm sorry, where were we? Oh, right, Firefighting and EMS should be very, very different.


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## pumper12fireman (Sep 27, 2008)

Hastings said:


> Interesting theory. R/R? Well...?!
> 
> I'll try it out. Let ya know.
> 
> ...


I enjoy the system I work in a lot. We're EMTs/Medics first and foremost. Everyday we are assigned to the ambulance (captains included). When a fire call comes in, we hop in the engine and do the fire thing. It keeps me sharp on EMS, and yet I still get to fight fire.


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## lalaneedstopass (Sep 27, 2008)

People need to get into not only this job but ANY job because they WANT to. Not to look "cool", not for the money, not for the name but because it's whatthey want to do. Otherwise you're going to get more and more people getting into this field that don't care and p/ts will see that. Not only that, but you normally don't take care really into things you don't want as opposed to things you do want. Like I said in the forum for the "soon to be student", don't get into this for the money. That's how burn out occurs. People get bored at doing something they never really wanted and it affects the way they work. Well that's fine when you're working at McDonald's. Oh no I don't care about working here so I'm going to treat people like they don't matter, I won't count all the change back, I'm not going to fill the soda machines up, I'm not doing a restroom check this hour. Who really cares? But in the medical field you're SAVING lives. You can't go into this job just for the looks because you're not going to do your best and you're going to work inadequately and people's lives are at risk when you aren't going to give it your all. Someone said it doesn't matter who enters the field as long as they're helping. Well, would you rather have somebody who cares about this job more than anything helping you? Or somebody who doesn't really care that much and is at the end of their shift and would rather race home because they have plans than spend a few more minutes on you? Remember, every single minute is vital. I would rather have somebody who values this job not for the money, the name, the clothes, the glamour, but values it in wanting to help people.


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 27, 2008)

Very interesting replies. 

Okay, here is my ideas. 

*1. Are people entering for the right reasons? *
As pointed out they maybe entering programs, but are they entering to be an EMT? Yes, most Fire Services require such to even be considered an applicant. This was to eliminate and decrease the number of applicants. This itself has harmed the profession of EMS. Over abundance of EMT's has made the demand and supply non-realistic. The problem again, many of those have no desire to be an EMT. Some will take a job until a F/F position opens. As well with the abundance of EMT's this has watered down the possibility of salaries for those really wanting to be a professional EMT. 

Should every firefighter be an EMT prior to entering a Fire Service? Why? Should it even be a requirement to be an EMT as a Firefighter? Seriously. Sure they should have first aid or MFR training being a firefighter, but does every truckie needs to be a medic? How much training is really kept up after receiving their accreditation? How often does each Firefighter put on a hare traction, KED, perform a thorough assessment before professional or more advance care arrives.

Would it not be more feasible and more prudent to teach a thorough MFR course within the Fire Academy? A percentage or at least one designated EMT on a truck or medics on a squad. Is requiring all firefighters to be an EMT an overkill? What was the main purpose of doing so? By doing this, has the objective been met?

I much rather have a well trained MFR with limited knowledge, than a so called EMT that has not kept up and presumes that they know it because they passed an EMT test, or will not participate in care at all. 

*2. Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career?* 
Do we allow everyone to enter medical school? Dental hygienist programs or even become a firefighter? Why should we allow everyone to enter EMS programs? 

According to the NREMT less than 50% that enter EMT programs finish them. Worse many of those that do finish EMT programs never take the certification test to become EMT's and less than 50% of those that do pass their certification never enter the health field. 

So apparently those that entered programs never really understood what an EMT or what EMS is, or never really planned to be an EMT. The expectation of the student was not what the course or occupation is in comparison. 

We want our profession to be a profession? We want better salaries, more demand, to be respected? *Then we will have to earn it*.

Only the best and the select should be allowed to enter. Give validity and credibility to this profession.This means one will have to be able to read and write. (this job really does require it, if you do it the right way). Have basic mathematical and above average science knowledge. Go through a psychological test to detect if one is mentally healthy as much as physically healthy. The job demands as much mental stress as it does physical. 

Place requirements alike other real professions do. Reference letters, display of intent and demonstration of interest. Demonstration of an understanding what the job and focus of what an EMT does and a full understanding the course is NOT and does NOT teach one to be a firefighter, nurse, physician, helicopter pilot, etc. *This course is designed and solely to teach one to be an entry level into EMS to provide prehospital care in an ambulance*. Nothing else. What one does with it, is up to them, but this is what they are going to be taught and it should *NOT* be considered a "stepping stone". If you want to go to that profession do so, don't waste time being an EMT. There are plenty of other temp jobs out there. 

*3. Should we allow anyone to enter?* 
Again, *NO!* EMS is not for everybody! Nor should it be. We have attempted to say it is by allowing volunteers, and opening the doors for every Tom , **** and Harry. See the results? 

You can define success by evaluating if it is working or not. Obviously, it is not. Time for a change. 

Life is not pretty. Not all us get to be what they want to be. Not all can be firefighters, astronauts, doctors or police officers. Not everyone can be in EMS.  There are factors that may prevent individuals from being the "best" in that profession. This does not make them bad.. but, not the best suited for that profession. 

We attempted to be so politically correct, it has now caused change within the medical profession. Even to the point, changing the outcomes of patient care. 

Compare ACLS to that of even twenty years ago. Doubtful, that ten percent of Paramedics today could pass such examination of what knowledge was required. Oxyhemoglobin curve, acid base balance, nosocomial infections, cardiac assessments. True emergency and cardiac care. Again, it was presented and known that one had to have such knowledge to provide adequate care. Not everyone was going to be able to or even should. *Where and when, did we decide it was okay to be mediocre? *

*4. Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic? *

I recently started teaching a Basic EMT course. I have to admit, this is the first one in sometime. I usually teach advanced or critical care courses. 

What I started out describing is that our main job is not just providing care. Really, that is NOT what most call 911 for. *People call 911; because they do not know what to do! *
If most citizens knew what to do during an emergency crisis, there would be very few responses made. We are there to take over their life during this crisis mode, to ensure them we have it under control and for them not to worry about it. 

This maybe medical, psychological or what ever the case maybe. 

EMS author Karen Hauffman, wrote many years ago she did not believe there was as much "burn out" as the expectation of the EMT was unrealistic and not that of what the job was really about. Many assume that they know what being an EMT is, and assume that what they learned in class is what they will be doing. In truth, it is very rare to see a sucking chest wound, delivering a child, placing a hare traction on.... in reality and per percentages of dealing with grandma with a terminal disease, transporting dialysis patients, hearing and seeing personal matters of poor financial problems, lack of money for medications causing exacerbation, or abuse of medicines in general poor personal health care. Yet, our curriculum does not even address what our true job is or sees on a daily basis. 

How many would had continue if they were told it would be very doubtful that they would ever perform a 10th of the procedures they learned? Yet, in case they did see such occurrences they would have to be above proficient and perform it flawlessly. 

I have emphasized that this is a CARING business. Providing physical care is *just* one of part of caring. One has to be able to deliver both. 

*5. Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations? *
As I described; yes. Most exit the programs without a clue of what the real job is. That is why forums have became popular. 

Unfortunately, many want to argue and vent of what they want in lieu of listening to what it the profession truly is. Again, attempting to make the job or situation to fit them instead of them fitting the profession. This has even slid over to medical care. I now see medics treating based solely based upon protocols. Making the patients fit their protocols instead of treating upon what the patient solely presents. Example, IV lifeline. Will this patient need fluid or medication enroute? If not, why the IV?  This usually comes from shake & bake training, thus cook book protocols are developed to "CYA" as much as possible. 

Would it not be better to really inform students of what the "real" job is  and develop a curriculum based to teach from that? That in-depth A & P, psychology, even social services is as much of our job than treating a tension pnuemothorax. The likelihood of seeing a diabetic being non-compliant of diet and med's is higher than seeing an eviscerated bowel. 

This does not mean, we should have to lessen our teaching of emergency care. That emergency care has to be taught well and in-depth. Also critical care should be taught to Paramedic level students, recognizing the distinction that it is NOT the same as emergency medicine.

We have to abolish the BLS vs. ALS distinction mentality. There is NO such thing in the world of medicine. Either you can perform the procedure or you cannot. Not wrong, just the way it is.  

It is unfortunate that most in EMS want someone else to do things for them. One of the reason we have so many multiple levels. We are always full of excuses instead of taking actions. The same reasons there is 5,000 EMT's for one position and the pay is sometimes below minimum wage. 

Who's fault is it, really? ....  

R/r 911


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## firecoins (Sep 27, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Very interesting replies.
> 
> Okay, here is my ideas.
> 
> ...


Since the EMT class is so easy, why shouldnt firefighters and cops have some level of training?  They are often used as first responders even if they aren't meant to be EMS.  The entry level EMS level should be higher than the EMT class.  





> Should every firefighter be an EMT prior to entering a Fire Service? Why?


They get call for extrication, rescues in dangerous area and other situations EMS does not go into. 



> Should it even be a requirement to be an EMT as a Firefighter? Seriously.


 No



> Sure they should have first aid or MFR training being a firefighter, but does every truckie needs to be a medic?


No


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## Emtint08 (Sep 27, 2008)

*What are we attracting?*



Ridryder911 said:


> After reading multiple posts on EMS forums, from the _"Not wanting to be touched", "Paramedic steals body parts" to " I don't want to have to attempt to resuscitate anyone" _. It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession?
> 
> Unfortunately, we (instructors) know that when the NREMT made a statement that _"many are now attempting to enter EMS, when they fail the fries section_" ... they were not joking. From either the formal NASA rocket scientist that retired or the one that has ran out of options.
> 
> ...



I got into this slightly by accident.  Originally I was going to be a CNA but my brother inlaw, a battallion chief was singing the praises of emt.  I am slightly late in life (Not very though) in this business.  I went into the class really nervous and terrified.  When I came out I WAS IN LOVE WITH it.  I love the patients, the partners, the teamwork, the patients.  I love to make a difference in someones life, even if it just helping them tie their shoe, or holding their hand, or getting them coffee, or providing them medical attention.  I am FIERCELY loyal to my patients, and for the most part their families ( its not that easy many times).  I than realized this is what I want to do.  I have been a basic for two years and am currently going through Intermediate class.  I was thinking the same thing you are today, as I watched many of our classmates come in very much hungover and not taking things seriously.  it makes me cringe.  Sad thing is, one of my classmates is no longer in the class after today as a result of the condition he came in.  I believe there should be higher standards.  I think we should all have fun.  I am not against dark humor amongst ourselves, or practical jokes.  And quite frankly, I don't get much offended by anything.  But when I see people who arent doing this for the right reason ( or what I believe to be the right reason---THE PATIENTS), IT really gets me.  I don't want to sound preachy.  There are a lot of times I am so glad I do what I do.  there are other times I consider switching careers.  it happens.  But there has to be some higher standard in which to achieve.  I don't want substandard care given to my family.


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## Emtint08 (Sep 27, 2008)

firecoins said:


> Since the EMT class is so easy, why shouldnt firefighters and cops have some level of training?  They are often used as first responders even if they aren't meant to be EMS.  The entry level EMS level should be higher than the EMT class.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am not a firefighter.  I am strictly medical.  But, although I don't think it should be a requirement for firefighters or police to have medical training, it may be a good idea, at least on a first responder level.  Lord knows firefighters and police have plenty enough to do.  Having said that, I think medics, basics and intermediates should be allowed to ride rescue without having to go through firefighting school.  I would love to ride on fire and rescue, with an engine for fire and unit for rescue.  But I would be required to go through the fire academy, even though I would not be fighting fires.  heck, I personally think with the abuse of our ems and emergency room systems, ALL parents and potential parents should have first responder training.  Along with a license to breed.


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## John E (Sep 28, 2008)

*Interesting...*

numbers posted by Rid.

If I understand them, lets say we have a class of 100 potential EMT's. 

Less than 50% will pass the course. That leaves us with lets say 45.

No specific number given for those who pass but who don't take the test but we know it's less than 100%, lets be generous and say 75% of those become certified, we're now down to about 33-34. Of those, less than 50% will go on to actually work, so now we're at 17-18 out of our original 100.

Seems like those who aren't serious about are already being screened out thru simple attrition.

I think the big question is what to do with those who pass, get certified, get a job and come here to ask really simple questions about stuff that they oughta already know...;^)

John E.

Seriously, I knew that the numbers were bad, didn't realise that they were quite that bad.


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## daimere (Sep 28, 2008)

The more I go through my EMT class, the more I love EMS.  I honestly wasn't prepared for it.  I just knew it would be medical and I could be camp EMT at 4-H camp with this certification.  I didn't know there were different levels from EMT to paramedic.  The second day of class I called my mom (nurse) asking her to explain what an EMT really does compared to my ideas from media.

Of course, the more she realizes I really like this, the more she suggests me to keep EMS to the side and be a nurse or perfusionist.


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 28, 2008)

Yeah, it would sound like the numbers is working the problem is that there is so many classes at the same time. For example in my rural state alone during one semester is a three county area there are at least 8 EMT courses. So even if there is only 10-12 per class, that is 40 to 50 every 16 weeks. There is only about 15 to 20 jobs per year for the proportion of EMT's. Thus why in we have over 5,000 Basics in my state, only 180 EMS services and over half of those are advanced level. 

Unlike other professions, when we have met the demand the courses stop, we continue to train. This is even on a national level. Hence a problem as well, that one has to be a basic prior to advanced (does not have to work as one). Since the Paramedic level has had a significant increase in pay, many of the old timer EMT's are now returning to complete their Paramedic.We have a higher demand for Paramedic than Basic level. Personally, rather see more formal programs than the so called classes. Which I believe is why there is so much fragmentation in EMS.


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## MAC4NH (Sep 28, 2008)

I agree with most of Rid's contentions and I agree that something should be done.  Here in NJ, it's starting at the Paramedic level.  Two out of the 4 paramedic programs in the state only offer the curriculum as an associate degree program.  They won't admit a certificate-only student unless they already have an associate's or a bachelor's.  A third program gives you the option of an associates but it's not required.  They're hoping that eventual employer demand will bring the other programs around.  I'm told that long-term plans include the option of going to a 4year program.  I started as a medic student this month.  I have a long background in health care.  I was originally trained as a chiropractor.  In school I had medical school level anatomy, physiology, pathology and better than medical school level radiology followed by 18 years of clinical practice.  While there is room for improvement, I am impressed with the level of medical knowledge required of the paramedic students.  I think we're going in the right direction but we still have a long way to go.

All ALS programs in the state are hospital-based so the Fire/EMS problems discussed are not a significant issue at the ALS level.

The BLS is another story.  There are BLS providers in this state who are doing it for many reasons.  Some are dedicated emergency workers (both paid and volunteer).  Many are earning a buck until they get into a FF job or police academy.  Some are EMTs because they need to be to keep their FF job.  Some are just earning a buck because they got an EMT card and are not qualified to do anything else that can make that much money (yes, believe it or not, BLS is actually a descent paying job here).  Way too many are just here to play with the lights and sirens and pretend to be heroes (both paid and volunteer). 

Overall, I think that BLS training stinks.  It is too easy to get in.  The students are taught how to do things but not why to do them (more importantly why not to do them).  There is minimal instruction on A&P.  They are taught a few buzzwords and sent out into the world thinking they know what they're doing.  The ones that are interested in learning and who are fortunate enough to have good role models become very good EMTs (both paid and volunteer).  The rest of them are the reason Rid started this discussion.  I think the EMT Basic class needs to be longer (that sound you just heard was all the volunteer squads in the state screaming Noooooo....) with more of an emphasis on A&P (Or make at least A&P I a prerequisite).  There should be better screening of applicants (although that is of limited benefit -  the worst sociopath can behave for a half-hour interview). The standards for EMT-B educators need to be drastically raised.  While we have some very good instructors in the academies near me, others shouldn't be allowed within 100 ft of a patient and at least 300 ft from a student.

I have disagreed with Rid about many things on this forum before but, try as I might, I can't find anything here with which to take issue.  

For everyone who's doing it for the patients:  Keep trying and keep learning!


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## phunguy (Sep 28, 2008)

"Way too many are just here to play with the lights and sirens"

Is it just so wrong to hang my head out the window and go "woo woo woo!"


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## imurphy (Sep 28, 2008)

phunguy said:


> "Way too many are just here to play with the lights and sirens"
> 
> Is it just so wrong to hang my head out the window and go "woo woo woo!"



Of course it isn't! Especially when the damn siren is broken again!


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## HeavyCrow (Sep 28, 2008)

Being new to EMS, I really have not had the time (or maybe to the rest of you  feel I havent "earned the right to") form a big opinion on this matter. I was in a B class with 27 other students, majority were college kids (I am 41) wanting resume fodder for PA school. Out of that group, 20 finished the class, and I believe 18 passed the state certification. Out of those 18 I am the only one " seriously working" (though be it as a volunteer right now) in the field, with the aspiration of being full time some day. I can and do make a lot more money at my regular chosen profession then highest grade medic in the state. But I am at the age that "how much money I have or how many toys I own" doesnt mean crap. I want to know I contribute to my community and give something back, do something worthwhile for my fellow man, my neighbors, my friends. I want to feel like I am helping people, even if it is just for right now BLS. That is most important to me. Yeah, drivingemergency traffic, crawling in a wreck and comforting a crash victim, or bouncing up and down on someone's chest is all exciting, but that is only a very small part of the job. 
      Am i better adjusted because I am older and have a little more life experience? Or am I less effective because I had been out of school for 20 yrs before I went back to B school. I worked yesterday with an intermediate who is one test away from being full Paramedic, and she is twenty...2 yrs younger then my son who probably couldnt put a bandaid on himself. But talking to her you can tell she loves the field, and does it for the right reasons. I am sure she has bills to pay, but when you listen to the rough experiences she has had, and how hard she worked in school, I cant imagine she does it just for money or thrills alone.
      I guess this field will a lot like law enforcement... there are cops who really want to right the wrongs and protect people, and others who are on a power trip, want to carry a gun, and enforce their rule over others.  As long as you took your education seriously, take advantage of your educational opportunities, and really care about doing some good, it really doesnt matter to me if you got in EMS for andrenalin rush, to drive fast, to keep your FF job, to play with the lights and sirens, or you are another Mother Theresa or Johnny Gage. Put the Patient first. Then enjoy the rest. And if you did do it for all the wrong reasons, your coworkers and employers are gonna see it (if they care) and eventually the 'weeds' will egt pulled.


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## EMT-P633 (Sep 28, 2008)

I would have to agree with Rid, Alot of people are getting involved into EMS for the wrong reasons. I agree that something needs to be done to help screen and stop producing cook book providers reguardless of there level. 

I also feel that If we were able to form an actuall proffession with increased pay we must earn it.  How do we earn it? By being the best.  

I think that alot of our problems can be solved with-in the services,  If the individual services institute a higher standard then the bare basics or minimums this would "weed out" the bad seeds so to speak.  Yes there may be a large supply of unemployeed providers, But if each and every service set a high standard of care only the best of the best would be able to comply, yes?

As far as the FF vrs EMT.......  I personally feel that many FF's use EMS to climb the career ladder instead of actual patient care.  I do feel that there needs to be medical personel on the FF departments. Just not every one being a medic or EMT. I think one of each per truck is sufficent. or combo of either, EMT/EMT, P/P. or EMT/P.

We as a community (EMS), are responsible for what our proffession has become. We are also responsible for what it can be.  We are the ones that teach, train, instruct, recruit our new members. If we dont hold ourselves responsible then how can we call ourselves proffesionals?


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## sixmaybemore (Sep 28, 2008)

Interesting thread, and a timely one for me. I know I've been asking myself why exactly I'm drawn to this line of work. In my home, I strive for peace. Not chaos (although Lord knows chaos often rules the day!). Why exactly do I want to put myself out there, dealing with being thrown up on, mopping up who knows what out of the back of the bus, dealing with frequent fliers, people who put themselves in dangerous situations, and on and on. Ah, one of the great mysteries of life, eh? 

Tamri 
CPST


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## Foxbat (Sep 28, 2008)

I heard a story about a young and enthusiastic med student who did her first clinical in some hospital in the UK. When she was asked by a doctor what made her choose her career she answered she wanted to help people. Doctor replied, rather sarcastically:  "Well, why don't you go and work for social services?"

So, why choose EMS? You want to help people? You know, every job helps somebody.
You want to work with people, be humane, compassionate, empathic? There are social services, special education, etc.
You want to save lives? Public sanitation (sewer, garbage disposal) has saved more lives than medicine (by preventing epidemics).
You are interested in medicine? Geez, it sounds kinda selfish, to go into field because _you_ are interested in it. But let's say it's OK to want to work or volunteer somewhere because it's interesting. Why EMS? Why not just work or volunteer at a hospital?
WHAT? You like working specifically in emergency setting? Like helping people with life-threatening conditions? You like challenging situations and dangerous environments? OMG, you must be a bad, selfish, whackerish person, get out of EMS.

This is, obviously, a dramatization, but you get my point. It's not _only_ about helping people. There is also some "selfish" motivation, so to say. The desire to help people still should be there, but I think this desire alone is not enough.


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## Hastings (Sep 28, 2008)

Foxbat said:


> I heard a story about a young and enthusiastic med student who did her first clinical in some hospital in the UK. When she was asked by a doctor what made her choose her career she answered she wanted to help people. Doctor replied, rather sarcastically:  "Well, why don't you go and work for social services?"
> 
> So, why choose EMS? You want to help people? You know, every job helps somebody.
> You want to work with people, be humane, compassionate, empathic? There are social services, special education, etc.
> ...



I'm asked that question a lot. Why I chose EMS. I've never known how to answer it. I don't think I know why I chose EMS. All I ever manage to come up with are some highlights:

1. I've never wanted a desk job. I don't want to do the same thing every day. I want to do something different every day.

2. I want to be challenged. I want to be in a high-stress situation.

3. (And this one I struggle to word appropriately) I enjoy working with society's neglected, the struggling lower classes, alcoholics, drug abusers, and those with mental disorders.

4. I have an unexplainable interest in disease, the human body, drugs, and psychology.

5. I want a hands-on job.

6. I want to work in a small team.

7. And lastly, of course, I want to feel like I'm making some sort of difference for at least someone. 

And even then, I don't know why I'm really doing this. I admit that I got in this for selfish reasons. It doesn't mean I don't care about the patients. There are other jobs that fit that description, I'm sure. But I stumbled upon this one. I enjoy it, I'm good at it, and I'm going to continue doing it for at least awhile before moving up the ladder.


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## rmellish (Sep 28, 2008)

Foxbat said:


> I heard a story about a young and enthusiastic med student who did her first clinical in some hospital in the UK. When she was asked by a doctor what made her choose her career she answered she wanted to help people. Doctor replied, rather sarcastically:  "Well, why don't you go and work for social services?"
> 
> So, why choose EMS? You want to help people? You know, every job helps somebody.
> You want to work with people, be humane, compassionate, empathic? There are social services, special education, etc.
> ...



I know this is pushing the envelope a bit here, but wouldn't some schools of thought say that from a psychological standpoint the desire to help others is really an outward manifestation of an internal desire to feel justified and to have others' gratitude....essentially meaning that the desire to help others is really just a desire to feel better about yourself?

Ok, enough deep thinking for me....


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## guardwantsmore (Sep 29, 2008)

Okay, I just passed my NREMT.  I decided that I wanted to go into EMS junior year of high school (after a summer of lifeguarding, I loved the feeling of being able to help people.)  Right before my class started I was doubting whether or not I was picking the right job.  I decided to stick with it.  When we did our ride alongs I went to AMR (the company that is contracted with my school for 3rd rides).  I was scared out of my wits.  I didn't know what I'd come across.  I just hoped I'd be ready for whatever came my way.  The people at the front desk had me check in and I sat in the "crew room" waiting for my crew to show up.  I was sitting in the chair just kind of looking over the walls with posters and fliers about employee of the quarter, being safe, traffic facts, etc.  I got bored and through another set of doors was the ambulance bay.  Right above that was a sign that said something very similar, but not vertabum to:

"Through these doors walk the finest EMT's and Paramedics in Colorado."  I have kept in my mind ever since.  I entered the EMT Basic class because that's what I "decided" to do.  Reading that poster "affirmed" my "decision" and I haven't looked back since.  I'm sticking with it.  After my first 3rd ride, I wanted to do another (due to my crew not really teaching me very much.)  So I went again.  My crew was great, we talked about all sorts of things, but not very many calls to learn from.  I went a third time.  I had a blast with this crew.  I had calls where they explained and taught me, and challenged me.  I loved it.  I made a schedule for 2 more 3rd rides with that crew (the max I could do was 5, and I did five.)  I wasn't afraid to ask qestions.  I wasn't afraid to get challenged.  I talked to my patients and found a little about them.  After my class I was completely fired up.  I wanted more and more.  I still do.

In short, I want to do this.  Do I have false expectations?  I think not.  That 2nd time I rode we pretty much did transfers, and even BS calls that turned out to be nothing but a refusal.  But that's okay.  I loved my ride alongs.  I loved learning. I loved seeing all sorts of people in various states of life.  I am hooked.


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## sixmaybemore (Sep 29, 2008)

> I know this is pushing the envelope a bit here, but wouldn't some schools of thought say that from a psychological standpoint the desire to help others is really an outward manifestation of an internal desire to feel justified and to have others' gratitude....essentially meaning that the desire to help others is really just a desire to feel better about yourself?



Interesting idea. I think in the past, I was in it for the thrill of the moment. Even though the junk calls far outweighed the good calls, it was the high of the chaos. Here, here, go here, get this, get that, move fast, make it good. Now, I suppose part of me *is looking for that thrill of the moment. The bigger picture for me now though is that I really like helping people. Even though I don't like people most of the time. lol.


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## SmokeyBear (Sep 29, 2008)

firecoins said:


> As oppossed to the murky psychpaths some may settle for?:sad:



ZING 

Indeed


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## mycrofft (Sep 29, 2008)

*I recommend EpiDo's reply to "Returning to EMS"*

There's an example.


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## Paul (Sep 29, 2008)

I can only comment on why I entered this field and what I experienced in
EMT-B training.  

I was in the "private sector" supplying high tech electronic equipment to the US and to Asian countries for use in aerospace applications for many many years. I have seen so much waste and oppression thorughout the world that I decided to contribute to the humanity in some small way. 

I should add that my experiences in "marginal" countries also helped in deciding to get into this field so I may return to those places when there is a need,  and  have a bit more training under my belt. And.....its something I've wanted to do for many many years.

I expect that I am somewhat older (58) then most on this forum. While in EMT class most were young college people. Some continuing on to medical school and some working to become PA's. There were also fire department employees getting certified. I really did not see what has been described in this thread.  However, I was not looking for deficits in anyone.

I am as inexperienced with emergency care as any beginner on this forum. However, I have plans to take more advanced training as I am sure many do.

I would hope that people enter this with their eyes open. It is my feeling that learning never ends.  It is a great feeling to be learning so many interesting and challenging subjects with the thought of mastering many of them in the days and months to come.  

One problem I see with many "younger" folks entering this field, if I may, is simple. They just need to get some mileage under their belt. No one my friends can accelerate this. 

I want to add that this forum has been of great help to me in selecting books and classes.  I am taking a 12 lead class in Bend, OR in a few weeks and am looking forward to learning new skills.

Best wishes
Paul


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## csly27 (Dec 2, 2008)

lets see, I am just about finished with my emt-b class, (in jan) I am actually taking my class through R.O.P. even though I am an adult. I have learned a lot, I am carring an A which I am proud of. However out of 60 students or so only about 40 remain, out of those 40 mabey 10-12 are actually passing, and qualifiy for our ride along. which I am terrified of but extremly excited. 

  I have heard several of the high school students say on numerous occasions that they are strictly their for the credits, But they don't receive the credits if they fail. So what I want to know is why do they continue to waste everyones time when their are people who wanted to join the class but could not because it was filled with people just looking to get out of their regular class? 

  I think that is the most frustrating thing, and yeah that is kinda scary to think that if you have an emergency, one of those people who are not serous and squeaked by are gonna be out there wit hthe public doing more harm than good. So yeah I think that they should really screen people well. Remember it could be your loved one that they are on the way to rescue.


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## medichopeful (Dec 2, 2008)

Though I am not an EMT (yet, hoping to become one soon), I have to agree with most of the previous posters.  Why would anyone take a job just so they can get out of class, be cool, etc.?  In all of my jobs, I have taken them because I had a genuine interest in the field.  With EMS, I have a genuine desire to help people.  I was torn between emergency medicine or law enforcement, but I am going with EMS as it has more chances to help those around me.  I realize that yes, there will be plenty of times when life will be boring or the calls will be ridiculous, but there will also be times when I will be able to really help somebody out, possibly changing their life forever.  I realize the job is not all glory.  It can clearly be messy at times.  I have researched the field, and decided that EMS is something I could do for the long run.

I just don't see how anybody could go into a job such as EMS, LE, or anything else without first studying it and seeing what it involves.

Plus, I have heard the field pays pretty well...

Eric

(Hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here.  I am not an EMT or employed in the field at all, but these are just my thoughts.)


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## MedicMeJJB (Dec 2, 2008)

*..*

Who said it pays well?? I wanna talk to them!


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## emtashleyb (Dec 2, 2008)

I had people in my emt class (we were a high school completer program) that thought it was just cool and wanted to take the "easy" way out to graduate. People dont realize you dont just sit on your *** for most of the time and then play hero the others. 

For me I have always wanted to be in ems. My dad is a ff/paramedic with baltimore city I wanted to follow in his footsteps I guess you could say. I love helping people as much as some days I would like to strangle a few. I really have a passion for ems. I will admit I am straying and I want to take firefighter and rescue classes but its all things that interest me a great deal. 

People who want to go in and take the class should really do some research before doing it. They need to be aware its not all hunkydory saving lives just hanging out at the station. There are somethings you will see that nothing can ever prepare you for as much as you think you will be fine if it comes up. Yes sometimes its extremely boring when nothing happens (and now that I said that when I go to the squad later today I will run my *** off) and your sitting around all day waiting for it to. Some people just want to go in for the glory of being a hero, some because they think it pays well, some because they it will be super cool. When they go to the field they will realize it isnt


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## daedalus (Dec 2, 2008)

firecoins said:


> what are the right reasons?
> 
> No.  People should allowed to study EMS for whatever personal reasons they want.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Medicine. Try that attitude with medical school admissions interview. They screen applicants, and sometimes the most qualified people get told "Buddy, stay in the office, you have no business being a doctor", and the guy with the lower GPA but the right outlook, perspective, and understanding of what medicine is gets taken in. 

I firmly believe in the traditions and tenants of medicine. Patient care is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. Not everybody should be allowed to study it.


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## NolaRabbit (Dec 2, 2008)

Personally, I feel that every EMS applicant should be psych tested prior to hire. I have no idea why this isn't the norm, at least not in my area, since it would seem to make an awful lot of sense.

Applicants to both the fire and police academies in my city are subjected to a psych eval before being considered for entrance. They certainly aren't foolproof (Antoinette Franks or Len Davis, anyone?) but they do keep some unfit folks out. 

If we evaluate the psychological health of our firefighters and police officers - both positions of great responsibility - why too aren't we evaluating the first responders who are so often placed in the most morally and ethically delicate positions of all?


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## DT4EMS (Dec 2, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> After reading multiple posts on EMS forums, from the _"Not wanting to be touched", "Paramedic steals body parts" to " I don't want to have to attempt to resuscitate anyone" _. It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession?
> 
> Unfortunately, we (instructors) know that when the NREMT made a statement that _"many are now attempting to enter EMS, when they fail the fries section_" ... they were not joking. From either the formal NASA rocket scientist that retired or the one that has ran out of options.
> 
> ...



Here's one for ya Rid..............

I am familiar with an institution........... if I could call it that............ that would not allow for the removal of students ( after repeated attempts) because of how the students were funded to attend the "school" (an I use that term very loosely). 

Aparently EMT and EMT-P is a place lower income folks are being "pushed" into.

Now it wasn't a place I taught for, but it lost one of the best EMS instructors I have ever known. She put up with it for a lot longer than I could have.


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## jochi1543 (Dec 2, 2008)

The thing that amazes me the most is that some people are horrified by the sight of blood. I had a LOT of that in my EMT-B/EMR class, but that was a bit more excusable, since many students simply needed the class to go into fire, so their contact with blood would probably be limited to the occasional extrication call. But there are people in my EMT-I class who actually start crying at the sight of a drop of blood when they watch an IV get started, and these are people who are actually planning to work for an ambulance service. Yeah, sure most people get used to it with repeated exposure, but I'd hate to go to a serious trauma call and have my partner pass out cold when they see a piece of avulsed skin, leaving me alone to deal with the mess. Why do people like that even go into EMS? It's just beyond me. [/RANT]


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