# Childrens Asprin



## EMTfromSanJac (Jul 10, 2010)

On one of my Ride outs in Riverside. This dude tried to kill himself with Childrens Asprin, it was sooooooooooooooo funny the medic is all talking trash about him dude spoke no english and was puking everywhere. I was like what the heck Childrens Asprin, Really? Same day we had a real suicide atempt, sliced open arm to wrist with diamond blade, lost 2 liters of blood, that was a mess!! I am sure there have been some real lame suicide atempts out there, please share!!


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## JPINFV (Jul 10, 2010)

Yea... it's not like salicylates can't be toxic...

Oh, wait. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/818242-overview


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## MrBrown (Jul 10, 2010)

Brown is disguated by your attitude.  

Explain to me please how it is that you find humour in those who have reached a breakpoint in thier lives where whatever problems they have are so overwhelming they feel taking thier own life is?

Have you not considered the horrendous, often irreversable emotional damage and trauma it causes thier families, friends and communities?

What on earth would make you think that this is a subject that is somehow "funny" because they are unable to come up with a less "lame" method of killing themselves?

I sincerely hope that with your attitude and outlook you never work as an Ambulance Officer.  I know this may sound harsh, but go the hell away.


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## EMTfromSanJac (Jul 10, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> Brown is disguated by your attitude.
> 
> Explain to me please how it is that you find humour in those who have reached a breakpoint in thier lives where whatever problems they have are so overwhelming they feel taking thier own life is?
> 
> ...



Harsh! He took like a half a bottle of liquid and called 911, in front of his girlfriend and kid, TERRIBLE!! Why would someone expose their family to that? He was dumb dude! I have tons of compassion, this is why I chose this job! He just wanted attention. I respect everyone in here, including you, maybe when I come to New Zealand we can go White SHark diving (Big Dream of mine on my to do list!)


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## MrBrown (Jul 10, 2010)

*!*



> This dude tried to kill himself with Childrens Asprin, it was sooooooooooooooo funny the medic is all talking trash about him dude spoke no english and was puking everywhere. I was like what the heck Childrens Asprin, Really?...I am sure there have been some real lame suicide atempts out there, please share!!



Sorry bro but seriously when you say it was "sooooooooo funny" and how there have been "lame attempts" at suicide it doesn't exactly work in your favour.

This gives the impression you find humour in somebody who tried to kill himself (the phrase "soooooooooooo funny" gives it away) and that you somehow distain him for choosing to attempt to OD on childrens aspirin, as if to say "he could have at least found a better way".

And sure, you are more than welcome to come and visit, it's an awesome place down here.  Not sure about that shark diving but heck at the worst you can go whale watching


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## reaper (Jul 10, 2010)

^ Let me refer the less knowledgeable to JP's post!


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## MrBrown (Jul 10, 2010)

> This dude tried to kill himself with Childrens Asprin, *it was sooooooooooooooo funny* the medic is all talking trash about him dude spoke no english and was puking everywhere. *I was like what the heck Childrens Asprin, Really? ....I am sure there have been some real lame suicide atempts out there, please share!! *



Perhaps there is a misunderstanding; what exactly do you mean by this?

Your words (not mine) give the impression that you find humour in somebody attempting to kill themselves and as if to say "he could have at least found a better way".

Maybe I should rephrase that because you apprently do not even consider this guy a "real" suicide attempt, that was later in the day it seems.  Again, your words, not mine.

If you want to visit NZ you are more than welcome down here, we have heaps of awesome tourist stuff to do and I am not sure about shark diving but you can at least go whale watching.  Check out PureNZ.com


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## EMTfromSanJac (Jul 10, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> Sorry bro but seriously when you say it was "sooooooooo funny" and how there have been "lame attempts" at suicide it doesn't exactly work in your favour.
> 
> This gives the impression you find humour in somebody who tried to kill himself (the phrase "soooooooooooo funny" gives it away) and that you somehow distain him for choosing to attempt to OD on childrens aspirin, as if to say "he could have at least found a better way".
> 
> And sure, you are more than welcome to come and visit, it's an awesome place down here.  Not sure about that shark diving but heck at the worst you can go whale watching



I love sharks!! Wanted to go into Marine Biolgy when I was a kid, I swim with them here in So-Cal, they are just misunderstood. But really New Zealand is on my list, I have been to Germany, Sweden, Italy, Australia, Canada and Mexico of course (If you count TJ, LOL) New Zealand is gorgeous, your a lucky man to live in such a beautiful country. Maybe I will see ya out here some time.


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## Aidey (Jul 10, 2010)

So because the man is ignorant of what is lethal and what isn't you mock him? Whether the medication was going to kill him or not is irrelevant, the point is he wanted it to. In the case of people knowingly taking non-lethal ODs, it is considered self harm, and still needs treatment. 

Frankly, I agree with Brown. Get an attitude adjustment or go away.


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## LucidResq (Jul 10, 2010)

Your post makes me sick. 



> [...] although we have our own notions about what constitutes an emergency, emergencies are always finally defined by their owners, and not their responders. And that's actually OK, because EMS exists for the public. Nowhere in the world does the public exist for EMS.



and on suicidal patients specifically... 



> [...] there's no such thing as a stupid call. (Remember the pleas of the crew of the _Titanic_ were ignored repeatedly before thousands of that ship's passengers died in the North Atlantic.)





> Anyone who is fortunate enough to have survived their own notions of suicide can point back to a signal event that saved their life. And, as at least one of these authors can tell you from experience, not everyone who grapples with suicide is doomed to complete that act eventually.
> 
> There was a saying among American antiwar activists during the Vietnam war in the 1970s: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
> 
> Don't allow yourself to become part of these fragile people's problems. Keep yourself open to them. Listen to what they have to say. Be their advocate while you have that opportunity. Refrain from judging them, silently or overtly. And then, when you go home, count your many blessings.



- *People Care: Career-Friendly Practices for Professional Caregivers* by Thom **** & Friends.

You should get this book.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jul 10, 2010)

Aidey said:


> Frankly, I agree with Brown. Get an attitude adjustment or go away.



Second that. 

Dude, we do this to help others. I know people keep saying it, but maybe if you hear it enough you'll start believeing it. Regardless of weather or not he took a fatal dose is totally irrelevant. The intent was there and he needs your help. Well, he needs help, maybe not yours. If you look at an attempted suicide pt and see someone to call an idiot, someone to make fun of, an object of entertainment, you are as out of place in the medical world as a fish 40,000 feet in the air. 

EMS is not for folks who laugh at others misforture, be it unintended or self-inflicted. I'd do some serious thinking and personal philo. realignment if I were you.

We are there for others. They are not there for our entertainment.


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## EMTfromSanJac (Jul 10, 2010)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Second that.
> 
> Dude, we do this to help others. I know people keep saying it, but maybe if you hear it enough you'll start believeing it. Regardless of weather or not he took a fatal dose is totally irrelevant. The intent was there and he needs your help. Well, he needs help, maybe not yours. If you look at an attempted suicide pt and see someone to call an idiot, someone to make fun of, an object of entertainment, you are as out of place in the medical world as a fish 40,000 feet in the air.
> 
> ...



Dude, it's cool, that is why I chose this job. I want to help people. I understand.


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## Veneficus (Jul 10, 2010)

*the life you save*

May not be that of the person who attempted.

Especially in the US, there is a pattern of those in distress to feel they are actually "saving" or "helping" spare their children and loved ones from the same perception of loss. 

This leads to the "murder suicide" effect of whole families being killed by the stressed person.

Intervening in the "lame attempt" may actually prevent the not so lame one, which will not only save the life of the initial "patient" but others as well.

EMS providers need less focus on skill testing and a larger perspective of the world.


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## enjoynz (Jul 10, 2010)

This reminds me of a story I was told once by one of my tutors
and maybe something to keep in the back of your head.
I don't want to mention anything about the suicide part of your thread,
as the others have made it pretty clear you used the wrong wording with regards to this job.

....We were told about a job a crew went to once ( Please note...this job was many years ago, hopefully EMS has moved a good deal forward since then), for a gentlemen that had a bleeding nose...he was bleeding from both nostrils and had been for some time.
They had a 3/4 hour drive to the hospital. They left him sitting in the back leaning forward,
pinching his nose and both sat up front to have an easy cruise to ER...thinking what a waste of ambulance resources this person was causing.
Not long into their transport,they heard a thud in the back and turned to see their patient unconscious on the floor....
he was suffering from hypovolemic shock.

The moral of this story........ you shouldn't think because it was 1/2 a bottle of children's asprin that there was not still a cause for medical concern
http://www.drugs.com/aspirin.html your patient could have other underlying conditions or been taking alcohol which doesn't react well with asprin as mentioned in this attachment.
Much apart from this, you are dealing with your patient's emotion state at that time!

Regards Enjoynz


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## Lifeguards For Life (Jul 10, 2010)

EMTfromSanJac said:


> On one of my Ride outs in Riverside. This dude tried to kill himself with Childrens Asprin, it was sooooooooooooooo funny the medic is all talking trash about him dude spoke no english and was puking everywhere. I was like what the heck Childrens Asprin, Really? Same day we had a real suicide atempt, sliced open arm to wrist with diamond blade, lost 2 liters of blood, that was a mess!! I am sure there have been some real lame suicide atempts out there, please share!!









Cool Story Bro!


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jul 10, 2010)

EMTfromSanJac said:


> Dude, it's cool, that is why I chose this job. I want to help people. I understand.



No, it's not friggin cool. You say you understand, but clearly you don't based on what you said in your first post. Suicide attempts are NOT soooooooooooo funny. And just because they pt doesn't speak English is not an effing reason to "talk trash" in front of him. D' you even know what talking trash is? 

I'm done here. I'll stop before I say somthing really untactful and get banned or something. 

Seriously, check your attitude. 

That's all.


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## firetender (Jul 10, 2010)

*Suicide ain't painless!*

Knowing that people just like ourselves make the choice to take their own lives is one of the most exasperating things that we, as medics, must face. (In this I will speak in the present tense because this subject is no less close to me today than it was when I left the field 25 years ago.)

Here we are, dedicating our lives to help people continue to live, and some of the people we serve want to die. And we get called to intervene! We're asked to keep people alive who, in some cases really don't want to be here!
Have you not met some who you really believed?

How can you miss the absurdity, paradoxes, and conflicts in being subject to these kinds of assaults, day after day after day? That's the essence of our job because if you really looked at it, a significant proportion of our patients are the result of ongoing attempts at suicide via lifestyle choices. They just drag it out and we get dragged in to their slow process.

Please, get off your high horses. Who amongst us does not at one time flirt with the idea and far more often say, "Jesus, I'm killing myself by doing this!"? From the moment we're born, somewhere deep inside we continually ask ourselves why we continue to live. Innately we all know living is a choice and yes, we do despise those who choose otherwise. Why? Because we know sometimes to continue to live is a hard choice to follow through on! (Ever had a broken heart?)

Some of our patients only seem to act like they want to die and they're really bush-league actors. And yes, just so they can get attention from people who want them to live! Some, so transparently and pitifully that you have to laugh; It just looks so strange and unfathomable and they're such Idiots and what the hell am I doing here when there's someone who really wants to live out there getting ready to call me for help?! 

(I'll stop here to let you throw brickbats and tomatoes at me and worse.

 Feel better? Me, too!)

But remember, we as humans, unlike Mr. Spock, are actually wired to be able to laugh at ANYTHING! Who amongst us is not exposed to, if not titillated by gallows humor? When I hear you all condemn each other for suddenly being overcome by very human emotions -- exponentially magnified by the absurd nature of the reality we're exposed to! -- it annoys me because laughing at tragedy is one part that lives in us all.

We laugh to lessen the pain. No subject is immune.

But it has to be seen in context...if that's the only place the person comes from, if there's not a seeking of balance, and YES the willingness to shed a tear for the pain of others at times, then that insensitivity is toxic and dangerous.

Give the kid his laugh, and learn who he is, too.


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## medichopeful (Jul 10, 2010)

EMTfromSanJac said:


> On one of my Ride outs in Riverside. This dude tried to kill himself with Childrens Asprin, it was sooooooooooooooo funny the medic is all talking trash about him dude spoke no english and was puking everywhere. I was like what the heck Childrens Asprin, Really? Same day we had a real suicide atempt, sliced open arm to wrist with diamond blade, lost 2 liters of blood, that was a mess!! I am sure there have been some real lame suicide atempts out there, please share!!



You cannot be serious.  How could you possibly find the behavior of the medic or the situation anywhere close to "funny?"  This was a serious situation.  Someone who has just tried to kill them self deserves respect, something they clearly didn't get with you or the "medic" they sent to help them out.  Who seriously cares HOW they tried to commit suicide?  The fact of the matter is that they DID try to commit it.  Whether it's baby aspirin, oxycodone, or helium, they tried to kill them self.  They deserve respect and compassion, not belittlement and mockery.

You need to grow up and learn that people who try to kill them self are desperate, and need help.  If you don't realize this very, VERY quickly, I can only pray that your stay in this field is incredibly short.


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## foxfire (Jul 10, 2010)

firetender said:


> Knowing that people just like ourselves make the choice to take their own lives is one of the most exasperating things that we, as medics, must face. (In this I will speak in the present tense because this subject is no less close to me today than it was when I left the field 25 years ago.)
> 
> Here we are, dedicating our lives to help people continue to live, and some of the people we serve want to die. And we get called to intervene! We're asked to keep people alive who, in some cases really don't want to be here!
> Have you not met some who you really believed?
> ...



+1   Very good points.


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## JPINFV (Jul 10, 2010)

firetender said:


> Knowing that people just like ourselves make the choice to take their own lives is one of the most exasperating things



That was something that got emphasised in Psych and Behavior at my school. Physicians have something like the 3rd or 4th highest suicide attempt rate by profession and the highest "suicide complete" rate by profession.



> But remember, we as humans, unlike Mr. Spock, are actually wired to be able to laugh at ANYTHING! Who amongst us is not exposed to, if not titillated by gallows humor? When I hear you all condemn each other for suddenly being overcome by very human emotions -- exponentially magnified by the absurd nature of the reality we're exposed to! -- it annoys me because laughing at tragedy is one part that lives in us all.



The problem is in presentation. There's a way to bring out gallows humor without sounding like you're mocking the patient. there's a way to see humor (and God knows, I like me a little bit.. well... a lot of schedenfrued, but if I'm going to talk about something like this publicly, I'm going to choose my words very carefully because it isn't hard to go from one side of the line to another.


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## Aidey (Jul 11, 2010)

Firetender you do have good points. I will not deny that I have laughed at patients, repeated stupid things they have said etc. However, I will NEVER do it in front of the patient, their family, or brag about it. Well, with one caveat, I have laughed when patients are trying to be funny. I will also admit I have said things like "Someone shoot me" or "If we get one more call I'm throwing myself in front of the fire truck".

There is a big difference between laughing at a situation and being condescending and mocking. The OP came off as the latter, and also indicated that he doesn't have a very good understanding of psychology and human behavior. 

Also, never ever ever assume the patient doesn't speak English, even if they tell you they don't. Remember, people lie. Tone of voice is also something that can be understood across languages.


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## LucidResq (Jul 11, 2010)

Aidey said:


> Also, never ever ever assume the patient doesn't speak English, even if they tell you they don't. Remember, people lie. Tone of voice is also something that can be understood across languages.



+1. That was going to be my second point. You'd probably be surprised how much English he understands. For example, I don't "speak" Spanish, but I understand it well enough to understand the gist of most conversations. Enough that if I were in the back of a rig in Mexico and the jerk EMTs were "talking trash" about me right in front of me I'd know what was going on. And if I were suicidal, well now I know one way that doesn't necessarily work... maybe a gun will be a better option for next time since clearly the people I've relied on to help me in the most dire of times don't give a **** about me or my wellbeing.


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## Melclin (Jul 11, 2010)

Firetender,

I got ya, but I think there is a darker bent to some of the black humour in healthcare. I'm all for dark humour. But there is a difference in the intent and delivery of some of it.

There is the laughing so you don't cry type stuff and the laughing at the absurdity of events, even if those events are quite nasty. I get that. But I think some of it is straight up dehumanization - "this persons story upsets me, if I devalue the life of a that person, I will be less upset". Its immature at best. And that's certainly how this post came across to me.

Also, the notion that people trying to kill themselves should somehow hold a PhD in pharmocology and know exactly what will and won't kill them, then devaluing the attempts of those that don't meet your standards, is endemic in healthcare around here and it s**ts me something aweful.

Most importantly: I'm looking forward to reading your book when I have some money.


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## EMTfromSanJac (Jul 12, 2010)

I appriciate everyones input and take into consideration everything. Sorry for offending anyone. I am excited about EMS and I am sure those of you have your opionions that I am not fit for this job, and to that I say good for your opionion. This is what I know in my heart I want to do, I risked alot to go into this profession, and can't wait to get out there.

Thanks!!


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## EMTfromSanJac (Jul 12, 2010)

Also more back story, the Paramedic spoke Spanish and was talking to him as well and patient even mentioned it was for attention. And there was a laugh out of him when we dropped him off at the hospital.


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## Foxbat (Jul 17, 2010)

LucidResq said:


> [...] although we have our own notions about what constitutes an emergency, emergencies are always finally defined by their owners, and not their responders. And that's actually OK, because EMS exists for the public.


While not condoning OP's actions, I disagree with that.
Just like 911 dispatch centers exist for the public, but it's not OK to call 911 because your pizza wasn't delivered on time, or because you want to watch fireworks but forgot what time they start, even if you consider it an emergency.


> Quote:
> [...] there's no such thing as a stupid call. (Remember the pleas of the crew of the Titanic were ignored repeatedly before thousands of that ship's passengers died in the North Atlantic.)


How is that even relevant? Titanic's calls were ignored because at the time ships weren't required to constantly monitor the radio.


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## JH-EMT (Jul 17, 2010)

I think everybody is being a little too extreme.  You cant take everything, esp. yourself, too seriously.  both make good points.  you'll crack if you get upset over every call you go on.  but you also have to care enough.  you obviously care about people, otherwise you wouldn't be in prehospital care.  However everyone deserves a certain amount of dignity, even if they are idiots.  But then agian, humor can get you through the day.  We're all driven toward the same purpose.


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## WolfmanHarris (Jul 17, 2010)

This further demonstrates the failings of an education system that allows a provider to practice independently, in a diverse environment potentially dealing with any medical situation possible with only 100-200 hours of training. How much time can be spent preparing a provider for the all too common psychological issues that may be current problem or an underlying factor complicating care.

In my course of study we had a full semester course called "crisis intervention" that dealt with, among other things:
- non-violent crisis intervention
- therapeutic communications
- psychiatric issues
- death notification

Were I to total in class hours we'd be looking at 30 class hours. Of course this doesn't count homework and assignments.

We also had a psychology class, human growth and development, legal and ethical, and Patient care which at various times touched on issues relevant to this.

And you know what my biggest lesson was? I as a Paramedic am ill-equipped to deal with psychological issues. I will when necessary intervene to diffuse the immediate crisis to facilitate care, but I will not attempt to play pop-psych. Heck, when these patient's come into emerg, they have dedicated crisis workers to address their psych issues, since the RN's and Emerg MD's can recognize that they are not the best person to address these issues.

Does the small section of an EMT course devoted to these issues prepare you any better than myself or them?

Embrace your dark humour for what it is, an important coping mechanism against human tragedy, but beware of the subtle shift that can turn you jaded and judgmental against those in need of compassion.


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## firetender (Jul 18, 2010)

WolfmanHarris said:


> Embrace your dark humour for what it is, an important coping mechanism against human tragedy, but beware of the subtle shift that can turn you jaded and judgmental against those in need of compassion.



Bravo!


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## AnthonyM83 (Jul 18, 2010)

EMTfromSanJac said:


> Dude, it's cool, that is why I chose this job. I want to help people. I understand.





EMTfromSanJac said:


> I appriciate everyones input and take into consideration everything. Sorry for offending anyone. I am excited about EMS and I am sure those of you have your opionions that I am not fit for this job, and to that I say good for your opionion. This is what I know in my heart I want to do, I risked alot to go into this profession, and can't wait to get out there.
> 
> Thanks!!





First off, know that I'm the kind of person who will laugh at ANYTHING if it's funny. Even if it's personal.

Do know that your first post sounded really bad. We give "baby aspirin" for adult chest pain. It's a very real drug. So, when you say "Children's aspirin" it implies pills which really can kill you, so you seemed lame for saying it wasn't a good attempt.

Then you explained the liquid aspirin (I've only seen liquid non-aspirin for children), so then I saw the humor and understood why you were posting. Figured you just had a lack of tact.

But then seeing how you've replied to everyone, I can tell you're just being immature. It's like there's no remorse. No desire to learn or understand. No respect for those trying to remind you of the seriousness of the topic. Just more quick little replies and excusing your postings because you're "excited" and then go on about wanting to "get out there".

Honestly, BASED ON YOUR INTERACTION HERE, I definitely don't want you working with me or being part of it. You're NOT uncaring, but you ARE immature. You're the kind of guy who ends up getting fired in under a year. Why? Because you blow off those trying to teach you lessons. Then, no one wants to even help you. Then you end up F'ing up and everyone saw it coming.

AND ability to interact with people here does usually have a correlation with real life behavior. I've seen it before (meet people here, they come to work with me, they get fired).

One would think you'd be a good behavior as a student. But no. You've already made a jackass out of yourself and insulted many. You're going to need tact and interpersonal professional skills on the job. You definitely haven't displayed any here AFTER attempts were made at correcting you. FAIL.


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## mycrofft (Jul 19, 2010)

*Pull up waders*

:deadhorse:


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## onecrazykid108 (Aug 5, 2010)

Yeah, I had a guy who  cut with wrist using baby aspirin.


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