# AEDs in Schools Prove Effective



## Sasha (Jul 29, 2009)

*AEDs in Schools Prove Effective*
Full Article: http://www.medpagetoday.com/EmergencyMedicine/EmergencyMedicine/15279


> LITTLE FALLS, N.J., July 28 -- The majority of individuals who had a cardiac arrest in a high school survived to hospital discharge if an automated external defibrillator (AED) was on site, researchers found.
> 
> In a survey of high schools that had an AED program and had had a cardiac arrest within the preceding six months, 64% of cases -- students and nonstudents alike -- survived to hospital discharge, according to Jonathan Drezner, MD, of the University of Washington in Seattle, and colleagues.
> 
> ...


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## MMiz (Jul 30, 2009)

That's awesome.  I really think a big part of it is not just having the AED, but also having an effective emergency plan.  When I've had to use the classroom phone to call for a medical emergency, everyone assumes a well rehearsed role.  They practice monthly, in addition to the real emergencies we have on campus.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Jul 30, 2009)

Wow 64%?  Isn't the rate averaging around 12% nationwide?  Also, might it have to do with the youth of the patients who have a better chance of making a full recovery?


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## Sasha (Jul 30, 2009)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> Wow 64%?  Isn't the rate averaging around 12% nationwide?  Also, might it have to do with the youth of the patients who have a better chance of making a full recovery?



Kids die quicker than adults. Youthfulness does not equate to an easy and speedy recovery. Actually, the older people survive cardiac arrest a lot better then children.


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## rhan101277 (Jul 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Kids die quicker than adults. Youthfulness does not equate to an easy and speedy recovery. Actually, the older people survive cardiac arrest a lot better then children.



Most children have cardiac arrest secondary to respiratory issues, unless they have some underlying heart problem.  I am glad that this is being done.  We have some at the mall that I have seen.  Although I think it might take a layperson some time to read the directions.  Hopefully most can use the AED when it is needed and quickly.


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## Sasha (Jul 30, 2009)

> Most children have cardiac arrest secondary to respiratory issues, unless they have some underlying heart problem.



Yes, and?

Once they code, their cells die quicker than an adults with a slower metabolism.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Yes, and?



I think his point was it's usually easier to fix a respiratory issue with a healthy heart, then trying to jumpstart an unhealthy heart, which is why there is such a high survival rate...


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## Sasha (Jul 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I think his point was it's usually easier to fix a respiratory issue with a healthy heart, then trying to jumpstart an unhealthy heart, which is why there is such a high survival rate...



I don't think it would be easier... when a child's codes all their compensation mechanisms are spent, they've got nothing left to give for that jumpstart. But eh, I have never had a child code.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 30, 2009)

I've never had a code 



But have always been taught that if a child's code is respiratory in nature, it's easier to get ROSC, because it's still a healthy heart.


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## mycrofft (Jul 31, 2009)

*I can still hear you whippersnappers!*

The unknown factor: how many cases were unnecessary override defibs and CPR? Young healthy bodies also recolver from excessive resuscitation better than us geezers.


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## mikeN (Jul 31, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I've never had a code


Don't ask what happened the last time I've said that......


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## rescue99 (Jul 31, 2009)

mycrofft said:


> The unknown factor: how many cases were unnecessary override defibs and CPR? Young healthy bodies also recolver from excessive resuscitation better than us geezers.



While Peds may recover better when they are saved quickly.....we still lose them at a higher percentage compared to adults. Nationally this isn't so great since the adult outcomes are under 5%. Some lucky areas are a bit higher but, the National average is only about 3% last I read from the AMA. Hypoxic brain/tissue damage, end organ failure, birth defects and a host of other complications make Peds a higher risk. 

PS: I know of a very lucky 14 year old arrest (May 09) here who is looking forward to a bright future thanks 100% to a quick acting bystander. The bystander started CPR and got 911 on the way. He was returned to spontaneous circulation by a single shock from FD, several minutes into the arrest. DX...carotid transposition. Ghads! CPR alone and quick action is the reason this boy is home and doing well today. Had 911 been called but no CPR...the outcome would have been completely different. First responders are amazing. We need more of them.


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## Cory (Jul 31, 2009)

My High School has three AED's all throughout the school, and all staff and faculty are trained in CPR/AED.

Also at my grade school, there was a kid in the year before who came in around 6th grade. He had a bad heart disease, and he wore a pace maker. All of his teachers had to be trained in CPR, but we couldn't afford an AED. The school was less thasn a minute from the Fire station, the same one I live next door too coincidentally.


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## HotelCo (Jul 31, 2009)

We had an AED in my highschool. It was in a locked cabinet, inside a locked room, inside the locked gym. The perfect place for an AED.


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## MendoEMT (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm glad that AEDs are finally becoming as prevalent as the are.  For a long time the cost  prohibited many facilities that needed them from getting one, even places like public swimming pools and gyms where there are higher incidence of codes.  Just within the last month there were two successful conversions at a public pool in the city where I live, a pool where I used to work as a lifeguard and the AEDs had only been purchased within the year.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm sorry, can you remind me what a carotid transposition is and how we treat it?


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## Cory (Aug 1, 2009)

I think this is a good video example of exactly why AED's are important in public places, and I am not just saying that because the end of the video says so, I full heartedly believe it.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52RJWyjogY0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2Fbokabeed&feature=player_profilepage[/YOUTUBE]

I have been lucky enough not to have had to use the AED at the pool where I work, but the danger is always there, and it is very comforting to know it is there.


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## JPINFV (Aug 1, 2009)

Any place where organized sports is played should have an AED due to the slight risk of Commotio Cordis.


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## enjoynz (Aug 1, 2009)

Would have been nice to have had one at my niece's High School, when she arrested at age 13 of sudden unknown heart failure. 
Maybe her outcome would have been different!
NZ is miles behind you with AED's been accessed in public places. But they are working on it.
I think it's a great step in the right direction!

Enjoynz


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## rescue99 (Aug 1, 2009)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> I'm sorry, can you remind me what a carotid transposition is and how we treat it?



I wish I knew more. What was described as a transposition sounds more like a subclavian steal like syndrome caused by an anomaly. A surgical repair to route blood in the right direction (to the brain) was required.


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## High Speed Chaser (Aug 1, 2009)

My school refuses to buy an AED


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## rescue99 (Aug 1, 2009)

Public high schools have to have AED's in Michigan. All teachers must have CPR/AED/FA before being licensed here as well. Not all have to maintain the certifications however.


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## ResTech (Aug 1, 2009)

Glad to hear someone mention Commotio Cordis... a lot of providers are not aware of it. I wrote an article on this condition that was published in a regional EMS news publication. Google it if not familiar.


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## rescue99 (Aug 1, 2009)

ResTech said:


> Glad to hear someone mention Commotio Cordis... a lot of providers are not aware of it. I wrote an article on this condition that was published in a regional EMS news publication. Google it if not familiar.



Commotio..latin for commotion ! I finally get to use the latin I took in high school.


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## JPINFV (Aug 1, 2009)

ResTech said:


> Glad to hear someone mention Commotio Cordis... a lot of providers are not aware of it. I wrote an article on this condition that was published in a regional EMS news publication. Google it if not familiar.



I surprised it's not more known. It seems like every year or two there's a news story of some kid getting kicked in the chest in karate or taking a fast ball to the chest and going into cardiac arrest. It's uncommon enough to make the news, but common enough that I can remember hearing more than one story about it on the nightly news.


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## ResTech (Aug 1, 2009)

When I was researching for the article I was impressed by the frequency of Commotio Cordis... while not an everyday occurrence it does happen with enough frequency that ALL schools and athletic events should have an AED at the sideline.

With Comotio Cordis, a normally healthy heart is arrested due to the split second impact to the chest that disrupts the electrical activity of the heart throwing the child into vfib more times than not. There is no morphologic change to the heart itself... it is solely an electrical disturbance from the blow to the chest. Because of this, with immediate CPR and immediate defibrillation, these kids have a very good chance of having a ROSC with no neurological deficits.


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## Cory (Aug 1, 2009)

I took Tae Kwon Do for almost 10 years, I remember a few times seeing perfectly healty kids getting chest pains after a good fight. Not sure if it was this, but I do remember some kid going unconscious at a state tournament once, the paramedics came and did CPR. Could've been a lot of things though.


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