# How safe IS your scene?



## DT4EMS (Apr 29, 2007)

How safe is your scene? 

At what point did these EMS providers have an opportunity to check for scene safety?


With the NAEMT releasing a study of 52% of injuries in EMS coming from assault…… it’s obvious EMS providers are assaulted on scenes they thought were safe.

These are just reports from the last couple of weeks:



·	A paramedic was sitting on the back of his ambulance in a bowling alley parking lot when police say a man walked out from a bar, drunk and stumbling. The man approached the paramedic grabbed the paramedic in the groin, twice, and offered sexual acts.

·	Bullitt County authorities are searching for two men they say attacked an EMT. Two guys opened the side doors of the vehicle and dragged her outside, yelling and screaming for morphine. She has a dislocated jaw, broken ribs, a concussion and knife cuts on her arm.

·	In Portsmouth six police officers subdued a suicidal man who allegedly held a knife to a paramedic's throat at Portsmouth Regional Hospital this morning.

·	A Carlisle man is facing an assault charge after state police said he attacked two emergency medical technicians as they were treating him in an ambulance in Cumberland County's South Middleton Twp. Police said the man became irate and combative when the technicians cut his shirt while in the ambulance.

·	Two men went on a rampage Friday, smashing vehicles with baseball bats, attacking firefighters and paramedics and slugging a woman on the street.

What about the female medic shot while assisting the intoxicated man out of a vehicle a couple of months ago? Remember the female medic in Chicago that received a smashed face from a pipe?

The point is…… while on duty, in EMS there is no such thing as a safe scene. 

Be careful.

Kip Teitsort EMT-P, I/C


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## jmaccauley (Apr 30, 2007)

Two training maxims that I use are applicable to these situations:
1. Complacency kills
2. Presumed Compliance = Complacency (see above)

It's hard to concentrate on doing your job when you're constantly looking over your shoulder, but a safe scene requires multi tasking at every level.


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## Airwaygoddess (Apr 30, 2007)

I think that part of the problem could also be the mindset of "Oh that could never happen to me"  Scene safety can never be stressed enough.  "We are not paranoid, we are just dam careful!"


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## DT4EMS (Apr 30, 2007)

Airwaygoddess said:


> I think that part of the problem could also be the mindset of "Oh that could never happen to me"  Scene safety can never be stressed enough.  "We are not paranoid, we are just dam careful!"



That is actually the biggest part of the problem. Agencies don't train people because the people are not reporting to their supervisors some of the assaults that have occured "It's part of the  job" mentality.

The providers that have not been assaulted say exactly that "It won't happen to me". 

Well IF the NAEMT is right you stand a better than 1 in 2 chance of it happening to you.............


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## jmaccauley (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm always amazed that the vicarious liability issues of "failure to train" don't scare more administrators. How does workmans comp feel about these assaults? Does the risk management of these cities and counties even realize the problem exists? Will someone tell them?


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## SwissEMT (Apr 30, 2007)

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

I can't emphasize it enough. 

Some people have the situational awareness of a narcoleptic alzheimers patient with an affinity for moonshine and vicodin. EMS workers should have a mindset similar to LEOs, people see you as a VICTIM. Don't act like one.

Reason 23418805 why I carry my HAK on me. The last step in my defensive line.


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## jmaccauley (Apr 30, 2007)

Let me know if you need a few more steps in your defensive line!


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## TripsTer (Jun 1, 2007)

I say we should all get armed with tasers. 100% Painful. 100% Safe. Unless you get shot in the crotch or face.


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## Onceamedic (Jun 1, 2007)

Re..  tasers... like all weapons.. not a good idea without training... lots of training....  cause it can be taken away from you and used against you....


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## TripsTer (Jun 2, 2007)

You're absolutely right. Good thing my service has a tactical medic program, that stuff could come in useful one day.


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## MedicPrincess (Jun 2, 2007)

We have a tacticle medic program too.  Its not for street use.  They deploy with the SWAT teams on various types of incidents.  They DO NOT carry their gear on the ambulances with them.  And none of them has ever had to use their Tac Medic training on a patient.  Basic defensive manuevers and A LOT of common sense can keep you out of most trouble.

We don't need to be carrying tasers...or guns...or anything else that can turn into a weapon.  There a plenty of those in the back of our trucks as it is.


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## TripsTer (Jun 2, 2007)

I was being sarcastic. Of course Tac training isn't to be used on the street and obviously you wouldn't show up in Tac gear on just any call.

And of course we shouldn't carry weapons, the thought of having a taser is funny though and with the kind of people these days you never know.


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## jmaccauley (Jun 4, 2007)

EMTPrincess said:


> We have a tacticle medic program too.  Its not for street use.  They deploy with the SWAT teams on various types of incidents.  They DO NOT carry their gear on the ambulances with them.  And none of them has ever had to use their Tac Medic training on a patient.  Basic defensive manuevers and A LOT of common sense can keep you out of most trouble.
> 
> We don't need to be carrying tasers...or guns...or anything else that can turn into a weapon.  There a plenty of those in the back of our trucks as it is.



Just curious here...how many agencies teach basic self defense. Or common sense for that matter. Tac Medics are usually deployed with SWAT mainly for the safety of the officers and later for the treatment of the bad guys. Their defensive tactics training is minimal, although some get firearms training and get sworn in as auxiliary officers.


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## irishii34 (Jun 7, 2007)

*Straight-laced Facts*



SwissEMT said:


> SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.
> 
> I can't emphasize it enough.
> 
> ...



This is sweet. Nice, very nice! 

About the paramedic who had a knife held to his chest, mentioned in this thread, that would be me; but, that's exactly what the viewing public read, in papers, etc. and not what happened. It's called [media] sensationalizing, or do they not have that where you come from. Truth-be-told, there was a two-part attack, both defeated, and quite nicely too  Now THAT was what I call "situational awareness", even if I [do] have an affinity for moonshine and vicodin (hiccup), you zipper-bass. 

(Shaking my Head)

sully


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