# All the bells and whistles...REALLY?



## LoneStarSoldier (Aug 1, 2011)

I know of ONE EMT at my job who has an EMT badge and wears it on his belt. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but what are there SOPs in TX regarding wearing a badge like that? Of course, if you're an EMT, but all means you should be able to wear the badge to identify yourself but is all the extra stuff really necessary?

By all the extra stuff, I mean the several patches on the uniforms, the badge being worn around the neck on a chain, the gold-plated nametag, the silver lapen pins that say 'EMT' or 'MEDIC', a belt holster for a radio, the stethescope around the neck, I mean when did EMS become a fashion statement? IMO all that's really needed is a photo ID worn on your shirt that identifies you as EMS personnel (a job ID, even your National or state certification), and MAYBE a badge if everyone has it and is issued it. All the other stuff is just for looks and 'looks' ridiculous if you pile it all on like that. If you don't NEED it to do your job don't wear it/buy it.

Ok that's all for the rant. But am I the only one who sees other EMT prancing around like robocop gone EMS?


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## JPINFV (Aug 1, 2011)

Why do I get the image of







Dog the Bounty Medic!​


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## Anjel (Aug 1, 2011)

I have a badge. Dont wear.it though. Lol I just thought it looked cool.

My company requires you to wear.the emt and medic pins on the collar of your shirt. And the caddeuses(sp?) On the other side.

more than that and you start to look silly


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## LoneStarSoldier (Aug 1, 2011)

If it's part of your uniform that's one thing, but when someone uses some of their money to go out and buy all this stuff it's pretty obvious.


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## MrBrown (Aug 1, 2011)

We wear black pants and a white shirt that has our Practice Level (EMT, Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic) and green epaulettes with "Ambulance" on them attached


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## JPINFV (Aug 1, 2011)

I have a very strict policy on EMS and badges. 

The only difference between whether it's company issued or not is who to blame for the wacker stupidity.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 1, 2011)

I hope someone really doesn't run around dressed like this....

If its department issued then ok, if its not, downright absurd.


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## bigbaldguy (Aug 1, 2011)

Get one of these to wave around.


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## medicdan (Aug 1, 2011)

LoneStarSoldier said:


> I know of ONE EMT at my job who has an EMT badge and wears it on his belt. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but what are there SOPs in TX regarding wearing a badge like that? Of course, if you're an EMT, but all means you should be able to wear the badge to identify yourself but is all the extra stuff really necessary?
> 
> By all the extra stuff, I mean the several patches on the uniforms, the badge being worn around the neck on a chain, the gold-plated nametag, the silver lapen pins that say 'EMT' or 'MEDIC', a belt holster for a radio, the stethescope around the neck, I mean when did EMS become a fashion statement? IMO all that's really needed is a photo ID worn on your shirt that identifies you as EMS personnel (a job ID, even your National or state certification), and MAYBE a badge if everyone has it and is issued it. All the other stuff is just for looks and 'looks' ridiculous if you pile it all on like that. If you don't NEED it to do your job don't wear it/buy it.
> 
> Ok that's all for the rant. But am I the only one who sees other EMT prancing around like robocop gone EMS?


Yeah, that's absolute whackerdom. Takes one to know one (jk). If your buddy is acting as an EMT in an official capacity (for an ambulance service, municipal provider, etc), then it's up to the service to manage their provider's uniform and appearance. If he's wearing this stuff when not working, then it could be read as impersonation... or false advertising, if at the time he isn't indirectly supervised by a medical director. 
Hopefully, he'll grow out of this immaturity.


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## HotelCo (Aug 1, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> Get one of these to wave around.



I kind of want that. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DrParasite (Aug 1, 2011)

LoneStarSoldier said:


> I know of ONE EMT at my job who has an EMT badge and wears it on his belt. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but what are there SOPs in TX regarding wearing a badge like that? Of course, if you're an EMT, but all means you should be able to wear the badge to identify yourself but is all the extra stuff really necessary?


cops wear badges, firefighter wear badges, heck, even security guards wear badges.  ever think about why they do that?


LoneStarSoldier said:


> By all the extra stuff, I mean the several patches on the uniforms, the badge being worn around the neck on a chain, the gold-plated nametag, the silver lapen pins that say 'EMT' or 'MEDIC', a belt holster for a radio, the stethescope around the neck, I mean when did EMS become a fashion statement? IMO all that's really needed is a photo ID worn on your shirt that identifies you as EMS personnel (a job ID, even your National or state certification), and MAYBE a badge if everyone has it and is issued it. All the other stuff is just for looks and 'looks' ridiculous if you pile it all on like that. If you don't NEED it to do your job don't wear it/buy it.


ehhh, what make them wrong and you right? I have EMT lapel pins,  a belt holster for a radio, a scope that stays around my neck when i'm on a job, and my uniform shirt has a cloth badge.  I keep my metal badge in my pocket, and don't wear it nor my EMT pins because I don't want an EDP to grab it or to accidently get the lapel pin backs to dig into my neck by the seatbelt.  and I absolutely LOVE my swivel belt holster, it allows me to also keep my radio with me, keeps it out of my pocket, and holds it more securely than a beltclip would.  and my shirt has agency patch on one side, and training level on the other.

my photo ID, my certification and DL stay in my pocket.  otherwise they would be clipped to my shirt, with a pretty crappy clip that can fall off or get pulled off way too easily.


LoneStarSoldier said:


> Ok that's all for the rant. But am I the only one who sees other EMT prancing around like robocop gone EMS?


does it really matter?  are they a poorly performing EMT?  If someone wants to wear extra gear, because it helps them do their job, or it makes them look like robocop, who really cares?

As long as they do the job, doesn't EMS have bigger things to worry about than what extra gear an individual provider wants to wear?  and in the grand scheme of things, why should you really care?


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## samiam (Aug 1, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> As long as they do the job, doesn't EMS have bigger things to worry about than what extra gear an individual provider wants to wear?  and in the grand scheme of things, why should you really care?



Haven't you realized that at least 35% of this site is people *****ing about other people and/or criticizing others. People like to get into other peoples business as well as start fights about things THEY think are important.. it makes them feel better about themselves and some would argue that it is human nature..... cue the MJ.


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## DesertMedic66 (Aug 1, 2011)

We are required to wear class A uniforms and badges are issued to us. Silver name tags with your name and either Medic, EMT-1, EMT. The supervisors have gold plated name tags. At certain times during employment we will receive pins to place on our collar. Each uniform only has 2 patches. Supervisors and FTOs will have 4 patches. And we have to wear a PPE pouch on our belts. 

We all have to have the same cloths. We can not go out and buy fancy stuff.


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## medicdan (Aug 1, 2011)

My understanding is the original purpose for a metal badge (clipped over the left chest) was to protect the heart (from bullets)... a rudimentary vest. They became a form of identification or validation of authority. Now that every rent-a-cop (sorry Jon) has one, and they can be bought on the internet (even legitimately from Galls) or made inexpensively, they have lost their value.

Sure, police departments still issue them, and they have become a required uniform element, but they are purely ceremonial as I see them. 

I have absolutely no problem with people carrying or displaying them, but worry that it's being done at the expense of clinical competency or they are spending more time on galls' website than in their textbook. 

What I wear at work is the minimum required, and as others have described, I have lost "accessories" as I gain experience. My employer requires me to wear collar pins, a white uniform shirt (with my level of certification on one side, company patch on the other), black pants, and have a company and hospital ID on my person (or displayed, I can't remember). I don't generally carry or wear anything else. When I feel like it, I wear a stork or flag pin. Everything else is in the truck or in a pocket

I dont feel the need to display anything further than I do already. I make clear my level of training (certification) on my collar and right shoulder, and company affiliation. 

Why do others feel the need to display their affiliations with neon or flashies. I read that as immaturity and inexperience, not a provider I trust as a colleague or patient care provider.


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## firetender (Aug 1, 2011)

samiam said:


> at least 35% of this site is people *****ing about other people and/or criticizing others.


 
That ain't bad, really, considering about 35% of that 35% is accurate. If not, it's still often very high in entertainment value.

Thanks for the complement to EMSLife.com!

(Non-Official, of course!)


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## samiam (Aug 1, 2011)

firetender said:


> That ain't bad, really, considering about 35% of that 35% is accurate. If not, it's still often very high in entertainment value.
> 
> Thanks for the complement to EMSLife.com!
> 
> (Non-Official, of course!)



There is no doubt that it IS indeed entertaining, personally though I think that some people take things as personal attacks when the writer did not intend for it to be. Also I never said that it was a bad thing that people did that, I was just giving an answer to the question. Even better some of the tangents that I am referring too really lead into good quality discussion of a topic that might not otherwise have been brought up. My ultimate goal was to recognize the difference between personal opinions about the actions of others vs how those actions negatively or positively affect EMS. It was brought up that if those items help him/her do his job even if some people think it is in an insignificant or illegitimate way, then what harm is done besides that some people here disprove/think he is a "whacker".... as to the percentages... I re-considered and agree with your 12.25% evaluation.


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## CheifBud (Aug 1, 2011)

*And the point being....?*

I don't know what kind of answer we're looking for....?  We all know that guy who's entire closet it somethingsomething Fire dpet. or the Doctor that insists on wearing his white coat everywhere, hell even the guy who doesn't live anywhere near a farm but sports his sh*t kickers everywhere and his John Deere belt buckle.  Your medic just sounds like another emotionally needy tool in a big narcissistic shed... What you need to do is have a friend who he doesn't know approach him and with a completely serious face say, "So what do you do for a living, are you a security guard?"   So what can you do about this, not a damn thing but get over it and be content with the fact that you aren't a tool like this gentleman.:rofl:


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## DarkStarr (Aug 2, 2011)

No badges or patches here.. but I do keep my steth in the truck (who knows where the issued ones have been) and where a radio holster.  When I clipped it to my belt, it would rub against my natural body armor (fat).  Much comfier and less wacker looking than a strap o:


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## LoneStarSoldier (Aug 2, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> As long as they do the job, doesn't EMS have bigger things to worry about than what extra gear an individual provider wants to wear?  and in the grand scheme of things, why should you really care?



I care because, no matter what we do while in uniform and operating in an EMS capacity, we still represent each other in the EMS system. If someone is wearing all of the ornamental asthetic things on their uniform (when it is not required of them of course) it may reflect unfavorably upon all of us. Yes, I understand that they're just extra things to wear, but in excess it can be construed as unprofessional. Patient care SHOULD be the sole determining factor in what provides for the image the public has of us. But what SHOULD be is not always what IS. The average joe will not distinguish what was done right/wrong in regards to their care when most of the time they don't have an idea of what right/wrong is (other than whether they feel ok or not). SO they go on looks alone, and if an EMT can be interpreted as looking unprofessional the ignorance of the common person will dictate that they ARE unprofessional.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 2, 2011)

LoneStarSoldier said:


> I care because, no matter what we do while in uniform and operating in an EMS capacity, we still represent each other in the EMS system. If someone is wearing all of the ornamental asthetic things on their uniform (when it is not required of them of course) it may reflect unfavorably upon all of us. Yes, I understand that they're just extra things to wear, but in excess it can be construed as unprofessional. Patient care SHOULD be the sole determining factor in what provides for the image the public has of us. But what SHOULD be is not always what IS. The average joe will not distinguish what was done right/wrong in regards to their care when most of the time they don't have an idea of what right/wrong is (other than whether they feel ok or not). SO they go on looks alone, and if an EMT can be interpreted as looking unprofessional the ignorance of the common person will dictate that they ARE unprofessional.



Quoted for truth


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## the_negro_puppy (Aug 2, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> We wear black pants and a white shirt that has our Practice Level (EMT, Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic) and green epaulettes with "Ambulance" on them attached



Who's idea was it to have a white shirt as part of the uniform? Bodily fluids show up great on a white shirt 

we wear teal uniforms, great for camouflaging fast food stains etfc


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 2, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> Who's idea was it to have a white shirt as part of the uniform? Bodily fluids show up great on a white shirt
> 
> we wear teal uniforms, great for camouflaging fast food stains etfc



That was the same question I asked. We wear white shirts as students, employed crew wears navy.

When i asked they told me it was easiest to page "White shirt to Red/Blue/Green ## in the ED or on a floor for clinicals or on scene the white shirt made it clear who we were.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 2, 2011)

Aside from the assigned uniform, I wore a belt with a radio holster and pager holster. Later when I got a cell phone, I added that holster too. I'd have tucked in a cargo pocket (or worn around the neck) my steth. I'd have a pen light somewhere, some gloves, and usually a couple pens handy. Depending upon the specific call, I'd bring just the above, a waist pack with some extra supplies, or a well stocked jump kit in with me. Just walking around though, I'd just have the minimum of stuff, and I was always tweaking my gear for the minimum on me. 

The average security guard wears more stuff (patches, badges, crap on belt) than I ever did.


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## dmc2007 (Aug 2, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> I have a very strict policy on EMS and badges.
> 
> The only difference between whether it's company issued or not is who to blame for the wacker stupidity.



My company doesn't issue badges (thankfully).  What drives me nuts though is that our issued shirts (I believe they're Blauer) come with holes above the left breast pocket to pin a badge through.  Either give us the badge or give us a shirt that's not designed for the badge (preferably the latter).


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## abckidsmom (Aug 2, 2011)

These days I travel as heavy as I ever have:  belt with leatherman/light, shears tucked in the back loop, nametag on the belt loop, phone in my pocket.  I use every one of these tools many times each day.

Why does your stethoscope not stay in the bag, for those who carry it on you the whole time?  I get the stethoscope out of the bag at the beginning of a call, and if I'll need it repeatedly, I just keep it around my neck until we're done, then I put it back in the bag.


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## MrBrown (Aug 2, 2011)

Lots of our ambo's have belts with various bits and pieces dangling off them; pagers, phones, hip pouches, shears, gloves, clamps, clinical procedure flip books etc

Brown honestly finds little use for any of those items on a belt; phone in pocket, clamps and shears in the Thomas Pack, gloves in box on ambulance, clinical procedures in head and might look at printed version once in a year.

The only things needed on a belt is the portable radio and hip pouch for morphine, ketamine and RSI drugs


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 2, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> These days I travel as heavy as I ever have:  belt with leatherman/light, shears tucked in the back loop, nametag on the belt loop, phone in my pocket.  I use every one of these tools many times each day.
> 
> Why does your stethoscope not stay in the bag, for those who carry it on you the whole time?  I get the stethoscope out of the bag at the beginning of a call, and if I'll need it repeatedly, I just keep it around my neck until we're done, then I put it back in the bag.



Some people use their own personal steth either for preference or hygienic reasons.  Those are usually the ones that keep them on their necks!


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## abckidsmom (Aug 2, 2011)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> Some people use their own personal steth either for preference or hygienic reasons.  Those are usually the ones that keep them on their necks!



Even when I'm organized or hygenic enough for remembering my personal steth, I still put it in the bag, cause I don't want to carry it around.  That's just me.  I can spend hours and hours not on a call, or I can do 5 calls in a row.  I don't love having stuff on me all the time, but I find that when I'm puttering around the station doing whatever, I use my leatherman the most.  Heck, I even used it at Walmart the other day.


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## Sasha (Aug 2, 2011)

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish with this rant?? 

If you have a problem with your coworker, don't you think it would be more productive to talk to them directly instead of complaining about them on an internet forum?


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## Leafmealone (Aug 2, 2011)

dmc2007 said:


> My company doesn't issue badges (thankfully).  What drives me nuts though is that our issued shirts (I believe they're Blauer) come with holes above the left breast pocket to pin a badge through.  Either give us the badge or give us a shirt that's not designed for the badge (preferably the latter).



Oh that is what that's for? I've always just stuck a pen there thinking that was its purpose. Either way, it works great.


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## mcdonl (Aug 2, 2011)

LoneStarSoldier said:


> I care because, no matter what we do while in uniform and operating in an EMS capacity, we still represent each other in the EMS system. If someone is wearing all of the ornamental asthetic things on their uniform (when it is not required of them of course) it may reflect unfavorably upon all of us. Yes, I understand that they're just extra things to wear, but in excess it can be construed as unprofessional. Patient care SHOULD be the sole determining factor in what provides for the image the public has of us. But what SHOULD be is not always what IS. The average joe will not distinguish what was done right/wrong in regards to their care when most of the time they don't have an idea of what right/wrong is (other than whether they feel ok or not). SO they go on looks alone, and if an EMT can be interpreted as looking unprofessional the ignorance of the common person will dictate that they ARE unprofessional.



Consider this... I was working a day shift (I volunteer and work perdiem) the perdiem crew needs to wear a uniform. Name and FF/EMT-I enbroidered on shirt, service on one shoulder and EMT-I patch on other. I was the provider on a two man crew with a basic as a driver. I needed a medic for a call, put out a tone for intown ALS and got a medic. He was dressed in jeans and a t-shirt... he was clearly the higher level given that he took over, and directed me how to assist him.

The entire call, and ride to the hospital the patient looked at me, asked me questions and assumed BECAUSE OF THE UNIFORM that I was incharge.

I am not sure about you, but I care what the PATIENT thinks of how I present myself... not my peers. Those patches, radios and badges may seem silly to you but they represent training, authority and safety to the patient... right wrong or otherwise.


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## Tigger (Aug 2, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Why does your stethoscope not stay in the bag, for those who carry it on you the whole time?  I get the stethoscope out of the bag at the beginning of a call, and if I'll need it repeatedly, I just keep it around my neck until we're done, then I put it back in the bag.



We have sealed bags at my service (talk about silly) so I couldn't even put my steth in there if I wanted to. Most of the time scope stays on the bench since we do mostly IFT, but if we get a 911 call it goes around my neck so I can't lose it on scene. I would be very sad if that happened.


Sent from my out of area communications device.


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## DrParasite (Aug 2, 2011)

LoneStarSoldier said:


> I care because, no matter what we do while in uniform and operating in an EMS capacity, we still represent each other in the EMS system.


sure....





LoneStarSoldier said:


> If someone is wearing all of the ornamental asthetic things on their uniform (when it is not required of them of course) it may reflect unfavorably upon all of us. Yes, I understand that they're just extra things to wear, but in excess it can be construed as unprofessional.


sure... but who says the extra stuff is unprofessional?  I have NEVER heard a patient say "don't treat me, you have too many patches on your shirt" or "i don't trust you, you have a a wacker belt and EMT badge that aren't issued by your department."  in fact the biggest complainers are other providers who have a subjective view of what is the appropriate level of equipment.





LoneStarSoldier said:


> Patient care SHOULD be the sole determining factor in what provides for the image the public has of us.


sure...





LoneStarSoldier said:


> But what SHOULD be is not always what IS. The average joe will not distinguish what was done right/wrong in regards to their care when most of the time they don't have an idea of what right/wrong is (other than whether they feel ok or not). SO they go on looks alone, and if an EMT can be interpreted as looking unprofessional the ignorance of the common person will dictate that they ARE unprofessional.


I stand by my initial statement.  most of the public don't think all the extra equipment is or looks unprofessional.   they see someone show up, IN UNIFORM, and are comforted.  if the person has extra bells and whistles, the public doesn't care.  if the person wants to carry extra stuff on their person, I bet 99% of the public wouldn't even notice, as long as they were treated nicely (not even appropriately, since studies show fewer complaints occur when the practictioners are nicer, even if not clinically correct).

I might be in the minority, but I do my job, and I'm not going to care if someone else wants to wear some supplemental stuff on their uniform.  Then again, I've been around long enough to know not to judge people by the number of extra stuff on their uniform.


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## NomadicMedic (Aug 2, 2011)

It all depends on what your service deems acceptable. Where I work, we wear a flight suit and carry our radios on either a New York strap or a whacker belt. Where I worked perviously, either a strap or super hero belt would get you laughed off the truck. 

Here, my class A uniform is a white shirt with badge, tie, hat, blazer, pants and dress shoes. Most privates don't have that, but as a county service we do. Do I wear a badge every day? Nope. Do I wear it with pride on my class A? Sure do. 

I wear the uniform my service dictates and then add the tools I need to do my job, like shears, light, knife, iPhone and radio strap. If you don't like what I'm wearing or carrying, don't look. 

Who really cares what we wear, as long as we treat the patient appropriately.


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## Sasha (Aug 2, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> It all depends on what your service deems acceptable. Where I work, we wear a flight suit and carry our radios on either a New York strap or a whacker belt. Where I worked perviously, either a strap or super hero belt would get you laughed off the truck.
> 
> Here, my class A uniform is a white shirt with badge, tie, hat, blazer, pants and dress shoes. Most privates don't have that, but as a county service we do. Do I wear a badge every day? Nope. Do I wear it with pride on my class A? Sure do.
> 
> ...



The fashion police cares. Its a most grevious offense.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## Cup of Joe (Aug 2, 2011)

LoneStarSoldier said:


> If someone is wearing all of the ornamental asthetic things on their uniform (when it is not required of them of course) it may reflect unfavorably upon all of us. Yes, I understand that they're just extra things to wear, but in excess it can be construed as unprofessional.








:rofl:


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## Martyn (Aug 2, 2011)

> cops wear badges, firefighter wear badges, heck, even security guards wear badges. ever think about why they do that?


 


> What you need to do is have a friend who he doesn't know approach him and with a completely serious face say, "So what do you do for a living, are you a security guard?"


 


> The average security guard wears more stuff (patches, badges, crap on belt) than I ever did.


 
Oh come on, leave us security officers alone...puhlease!!!

And I think this sums it up quite adequately:   :lol:



> I am not sure about you, but I care what the PATIENT thinks of how I present myself... not my peers. Those patches, radios and badges may seem silly to you but they represent training, authority and safety to the patient... right wrong or otherwise.


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## MrBrown (Aug 2, 2011)

mcdonl said:


> I am not sure about you, but I care what the PATIENT thinks of how I present myself... not my peers. Those patches, radios and badges may seem silly to you but they represent training, authority and safety to the patient... right wrong or otherwise.



Never mind that it may infact be detrimental to the profession to dress like a whacker ... that's not important right you know who needs professional advancement? :unsure:


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## ArcticKat (Aug 2, 2011)

NVRob said:


> That was the same question I asked. We wear white shirts as students, employed crew wears navy.
> 
> When i asked they told me it was easiest to page "White shirt to Red/Blue/Green ## in the ED or on a floor for clinicals or on scene the white shirt made it clear who we were.



My staff wear white shirts exactly because they are easiest to see blood and other body fluids on.  It's a biohazard issue and occupational health issue to be walking around in contaminated clothing.  White shirts that get dirty get changed.  Wearing a shirt specifically so that it will hide the blood stains is just gross.


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## 94H (Aug 3, 2011)

I think the idea of the OP. With the EMT with a badge, radio holster, etc. We all see that as a wacker, as long as their skills are sufficient it shouldn't be a problem. 

The problem arises when we meet our psych pt, who has been harassed by PD. Do we want to look like a police officer? Or do we want to look like a different type of civil servant? 

In my experience, not being the police leads to better results. 

Maybe the OP (and many people on this forum) feel that by wearing all the extra gear the "wacker" is trying to emulate a police officer or someone in a position of higher power.


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## mcdonl (Aug 3, 2011)

I guess I do not understand what a whacker is. I was under the impression it was someone who while off duty, or worse... not even licensed, dressed and acted like a FF/EMT....

But, now a whacker is someone who wears service, license level patches and carries a radio while on duty? Really?

Do you think that maybe you all are taking this a little too far? Is showing up in an ambulance the next step? 

"What a whacker... it was just a nothing call and the whacker showed up in uniform in an ambulance...."


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## Sasha (Aug 3, 2011)

mcdonl said:


> I guess I do not understand what a whacker is. I was under the impression it was someone who while off duty, or worse... not even licensed, dressed and acted like a FF/EMT....
> 
> But, now a whacker is someone who wears service, license level patches and carries a radio while on duty? Really?
> 
> ...



Whackers are over the top ricky rescues who are so annoying you wanna whack em.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## mcdonl (Aug 3, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Whackers are over the top ricky rescues who are so annoying you wanna whack em.
> 
> Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk



So it's entirely subjective? There is no clear delineation between "provider" and "whacker" other than they annoy you?

That seems so weak that I would be reluctant to call someone a whacker in fear that it would show some serious deficits in my own personality and self securities.

But, that's just me. I only care about doing my best to not kill people.


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## HotelCo (Aug 3, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Never mind that it may infact be detrimental to the profession to dress like a whacker ... that's not important right you know who needs professional advancement? :unsure:



I'd say the thing most detrimental are the providers that recognize EMS can be more than what it is, but do nothing to change it except complain on an internet forum that it's broken. 

(that isn't directed at any one person) 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sasha (Aug 3, 2011)

Plus one.


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## mcdonl (Aug 3, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Plus one.



I am not good at math, so I will go with whatever is after plus one


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## JPINFV (Aug 3, 2011)

mcdonl said:


> So it's entirely subjective? There is no clear delineation between "provider" and "whacker" other than they annoy you?


Being a provider and being a wacker are not mutually exclusive concepts.


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## mcdonl (Aug 3, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Being a provider and being a wacker are not mutually exclusive concepts.



I think they should be. I work in two rural communities. I work pretty much every weekend shift and I volunteer at least two nights a week. Not because I want to, but because I have to despite the fact I have a full time career and I am a teacher to boot. 

If we start making folks who are providers feel they are inferior because the have a gadget fetish I think we run the risk of losing otherwise good people.

I dont know, maybe I put too much thought into a silly conversation, but it seems to me the guy who wears his radio at the grocery store 20 minutes from his response area when he is not even on duty is a whacker, and someone who wears whatever he can fit on his belt while on duty is simply an EMT/FF who likes hear.

Ever been to an IDPA match, or flyfishing, or camping, etc... you see where this is going, there are "gear heads" in every walk of life, but it is only when you display the tools of your trade when you are NOT working is when it is a problem. In my ever so humble opinion.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 3, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Even when I'm organized or hygenic enough for remembering my personal steth, I still put it in the bag, cause I don't want to carry it around.  That's just me.  I can spend hours and hours not on a call, or I can do 5 calls in a row.  I don't love having stuff on me all the time, but I find that when I'm puttering around the station doing whatever, I use my leatherman the most.  Heck, I even used it at Walmart the other day.



Ah!  I usually keep everything I need on a run but not in the station on a separate shelf by the door to the bay, so I don't end up wearing a personal steth all day (on days that I remember to grab it before leaving the house which is not often these days).  On special duty for events, I'll carry the steth all day since I tend to show up on the scene before the bag with the steth does.



mcdonl said:


> Consider this... I was working a day shift (I volunteer and work perdiem) the perdiem crew needs to wear a uniform. Name and FF/EMT-I enbroidered on shirt, service on one shoulder and EMT-I patch on other. I was the provider on a two man crew with a basic as a driver. I needed a medic for a call, put out a tone for intown ALS and got a medic. He was dressed in jeans and a t-shirt... he was clearly the higher level given that he took over, and directed me how to assist him.
> 
> The entire call, and ride to the hospital the patient looked at me, asked me questions and assumed BECAUSE OF THE UNIFORM that I was incharge.
> 
> I am not sure about you, but I care what the PATIENT thinks of how I present myself... not my peers. Those patches, radios and badges may seem silly to you but they represent training, authority and safety to the patient... right wrong or otherwise.



Well, yes, but there's a difference between uniform and jeans, and uniform with badge and uniform without badge.  I doubt a patient would really notice or care about the latter difference.



n7lxi said:


> It all depends on what your service deems acceptable. Where I work, we wear a flight suit and carry our radios on either a New York strap or a whacker belt. Where I worked perviously, either a strap or super hero belt would get you laughed off the truck.
> 
> Here, my class A uniform is a white shirt with badge, tie, hat, blazer, pants and dress shoes. Most privates don't have that, but as a county service we do. Do I wear a badge every day? Nope. Do I wear it with pride on my class A? Sure do.
> 
> ...



There you you, wear what you need as the situation dictates.  Amazing what common sense can do!


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 3, 2011)

94H said:


> I think the idea of the OP. With the EMT with a badge, radio holster, etc. We all see that as a wacker, as long as their skills are sufficient it shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> The problem arises when we meet our psych pt, who has been harassed by PD. Do we want to look like a police officer? Or do we want to look like a different type of civil servant?
> 
> ...



Yes, avoid looking like the guys with guns at all costs!  Around here, Fire/EMS wears dark blue.  Police wear white shirts with black bottoms, and sheriff wear black tops with olive bottoms...



mcdonl said:


> I think they should be. I work in two rural communities. I work pretty much every weekend shift and I volunteer at least two nights a week. Not because I want to, but because I have to despite the fact I have a full time career and I am a teacher to boot.
> 
> If we start making folks who are providers feel they are inferior because the have a gadget fetish I think we run the risk of losing otherwise good people.
> 
> ...



Once again, wear what you need to get what you need done.  It's the people who wear 3 sets of shears or carry gear on them they never use that get laughed at here.  If you wear something, but are using it often, no one is going to say anything.  We're dispatched on 2 different frequencies so around here, wearing 2 pagers/radios is considered normal if you are by yourself walking around.  (if you are with your partner or the rest of your crew, you'll split the radios unless you're trying to make the probie carry everything that day).

Common sense people!

Also a little bit of bling is not a huge deal.  Some people like to wear a pink ribbon in support of breasts.  Others might have a stork pin (I'd wear one if I could ever get one!).  But as long as it's not excessive past what you are required to wear, then  you're fine.  I have just one patch (department patch) and my name on my uniform and like it that way (I do need to get an American flag at some point, but they give us a year to meet new uniform standards!).  If you want a cancer pin or whatever, that's your call and is no one's business unless the chief wants to make it his business.


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## mcdonl (Aug 3, 2011)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> Well, yes, but there's a difference between uniform and jeans, and uniform with badge and uniform without badge.  I doubt a patient would really notice or care about the latter difference.



Then why is it being discussed? I work at a patient centered hospital and if something has no bearing on the patient it does not matter.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 3, 2011)

mcdonl said:


> Then why is it being discussed? I work at a patient centered hospital and if something has no bearing on the patient it does not matter.



Well that's what I'm saying, it depends on where you are working.  If where you are they don't care, then they don't care.

If the guy signing my paychecks says to wear a badge, I'll wear it, if he says not to, I won't and if he says he doesn't care, then I won't wear one, but it's none of my business if my partner chooses to wear one.


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## mcdonl (Aug 3, 2011)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> Well that's what I'm saying, it depends on where you are working.  If where you are they don't care, then they don't care.
> 
> If the guy signing my paychecks says to wear a badge, I'll wear it, if he says not to, I won't and if he says he doesn't care, then I won't wear one, but it's none of my business if my partner chooses to wear one.



Got it


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## FirstInTac'dOut (Aug 4, 2011)

Just wanted to throw my hat in the ring here...
This site seems to be primarily driven by opinion, so here's mine.
I'm new to the forum, although I've been a reader for over a year now, and wanted to come by it honestly when I created my username, so you know where I'm coming from (obviously).
I live in an area where "whacker" is an oft-used term, and I'm sure that it gets thrown around behind my back, but I can honestly say that I don't give a d*mn, and here's why:

1. There was a time, recently, when I responded to a medical call at an event, went out with my partner, O2, jump bag, AED, etc. Pt was pulseless, apneic, and cyanotic. Laid the pt out and began CPR. Well, after one cycle of compressions my (new) partner was still assembling the BVM while she radioed for the other crew on scene and their AED, and suddenly I really, REALLY wished that I had the pocket mask I had to buy for training. So you know what I did that night? I put it on my belt, right next to the Leatherman and the Surefire, both of which I've also had to use on calls. That way, the next time I'm in that position I don't have to choose between giving air and a mouthful of puke, which as a CPR instructor I can tell you is no choice at all. (Pt recovered, btw).

2. I will always, always believe that EMS needs to become a paramilitary style organization in training, operations, and organization, the details of which I can save for another thread, but since we're talking about "whacker-dom" I can point out that the military issues load-bearing vests that allow soldiers to carry the majority of their gear ON THEIR PERSON so that it is accessible in a crisis. That logic holds true when you are plunging into service at an MCI. No, it doesn't happen everyday, but i prefer to Be Prepared and not have to go running back to the bag. So carrying your scope, shears, your penlight, some 4x4s in the cargo pocket, whatever, is only going to make you a more effective practitioner of EMS, and efficiency is priority #1. It's certainly not going to make you WORSE. All the training in the world is useless if you don't have your equipment, and all the gear in the world isn't going to save you if you don't take your job seriously and study up. If you just want to wear straight officer-style slacks and your duty shirt and keep all the other gear in the bag and the truck, by all means. Just don't criticize someone for wanting to equip themselves appropriately for the unexpected.

3. The public, and the patient, DOES take into account the image that you convey. I worked for a company before that handed out EMS badges, and you know what? People actually responded to them, respected them. Little anecdote, my girlfriend and I recently passed an accident scene driving through NJ, and climbing out of a squad car was an officer in khaki cargos, a green button up & ballcap, with a thigh holster for his sidearm and a webbed belt for his gear (This was a traffic light, we had a minute to take it all in). You know what her reaction was? "Wow, that guy looks really good. He looks like he knows what he is doing." Before you think that she's easily impressed, she's not, or that she's saying it for my benefit, she rarely if ever sees me at work. The man was just... Impressive. 

I know that is only one example, but the fact is that what you look like has everything to do with how you are perceived by people, and being that EMS deals largely with strangers, making that impression is key to making them feel safe. Just conduct yourself with the confidence that you can appropriately manage the situation and put the patient at ease. Whether you roll onto a scene with a 5.11 vest stuffed with gear or you wear ****ies and a polo to work, just look and act like you take your role in medicine seriously. Lazy-a** transport company culture has infected EMS, and it really has to stop if this profession is going to take the quantum leap forward that it's capable of. The inter-EMS judgments, scorn, and mocking really undermine what we, as a service, are trying to do.


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## RealMedic (Aug 5, 2011)

All these posts from all over are very cool to read. My 2 cents is you just go with whatever the local costume is. I like just basic EMS blue with the EMS pants, a pair of shears, a leatherman, radio pouch on my belt, done deal. I think flight suits look grand and are easy to get in/out of. I can take or leave a badge although I understand folks are proud of em & they should be. Nothin wrong with that. Those gents from Queensland look pretty cool and I'm sure ole Brownie from north island looks swell in his get up and ketamine. So, thats my vent. Like the good Dr. said in the movie to Adam Sadler "CHILL"
Be safe!


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## angrynuni (Aug 5, 2011)

Meh,

I can't see doing that myself, but I wouldn't be bothered if someone I worked with did.


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## Hockey (Aug 6, 2011)

lol...


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## SHFD (Aug 6, 2011)

At my company they silently encourage lapel pins that I got tired of putting on my uniform, which are definitely professional but not necessary. I do use a whacker belt for my radio which is just practical as hell when you have a lapel mic to diddle with, and it's great to have something that easy to throw on when i'm on an overnight. I do carry my scope around my neck, but only because I have lost my other one for good after leaving it on the tech harness multiple times...Woot for private service! I know some EMTs and Medics on dedicated trucks like to use a batbelt, but they're old timers that no one would bother to poke fun at anyone. It's funny because some systems will require you to use a radio belt, and wear a badge, but you go into a different area where they don't and everyone looks at you like your a martian. Next thing you know the firefighters nickname you radio >.>


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## medicdan (Aug 6, 2011)

FirstInTac'dOut said:


> 1. There was a time, recently, when I responded to a medical call at an event, went out with my partner, O2, jump bag, AED, etc. Pt was pulseless, apneic, and cyanotic. Laid the pt out and began CPR. Well, after one cycle of compressions my (new) partner was still assembling the BVM while she radioed for the other crew on scene and their AED, and suddenly I really, REALLY wished that I had the pocket mask I had to buy for training. So you know what I did that night? I put it on my belt, right next to the Leatherman and the Surefire, both of which I've also had to use on calls. That way, the next time I'm in that position I don't have to choose between giving air and a mouthful of puke, which as a CPR instructor I can tell you is no choice at all. (Pt recovered, btw).
> 
> 3. The public, and the patient, DOES take into account the image that you convey. I worked for a company before that handed out EMS badges, and you know what? People actually responded to them, respected them. Little anecdote, my girlfriend and I recently passed an accident scene driving through NJ, and climbing out of a squad car was an officer in khaki cargos, a green button up & ballcap, with a thigh holster for his sidearm and a webbed belt for his gear (This was a traffic light, we had a minute to take it all in). You know what her reaction was? "Wow, that guy looks really good. He looks like he knows what he is doing." Before you think that she's easily impressed, she's not, or that she's saying it for my benefit, she rarely if ever sees me at work. The man was just... Impressive.



Quick response: 

1) What we've learned is that _ that pocket mask doesn't really matter _. As a CPR instructor, you understand that breaths aren't important, and your time would be better spent providing quality chest compressions than worrying about where to find a pocket mask. 
Maybe this means you need a redesign of your jumpkits, to place a pocketmask in an outside compartment of all of your bags. The services I work for do this, even in bags where there is a BVM, because we know how long it takes to fish the thing out and set it up, although I presume this will change as we all get more used to the new protocols. 

2) I would much rather providers show up (and remain) presentable with a pressed shirt, free from stains that tell stories of their last six meals, clearly identify their affiliation (company/service), and level of training (certification). Don't you?


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## Meursault (Aug 7, 2011)

FirstInTac'dOut said:


> 3.  You know what her reaction was? "Wow, that guy looks really good. He looks like he knows what he is doing." Before you think that she's easily impressed, she's not, or that she's saying it for my benefit, she rarely if ever sees me at work. The man was just... Impressive.


 I think she reacted to the fact that he had everything squared away. That's possible with a bat-belt, but much less hassle and more striking with less gear. The most important thing seems to be not being visibly overequipped and putting a little effort into looking neat. But I've been infected by "lazy-*ss transport company culture" and haven't pressed a shirt in months, though I do try to get my collar insignia even.

I suspect we overestimate the impact of badges because we notice and respect/admire/covet them. I don't know how many patients do, or what the badge means to them.



emt.dan said:


> 2) I would much rather providers show up (and remain) presentable with a pressed shirt, free from stains that tell stories of their last six meals, clearly identify their affiliation (company/service), and level of training (certification). Don't you?



I'd settle for a visible ID. Seriously, it's _identification_. It only works if people read it. If you're that worried about the patient learning your name, something's amiss.


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## Sasha (Aug 7, 2011)

> I'd settle for a visible ID. Seriously, it's identification. It only works if people read it. If you're that worried about the patient learning your name, something's amiss.



But then they know who to complain about!


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## Melclin (Aug 7, 2011)

FirstInTac'dOut said:


> 1. There was a time, recently, when I responded to a medical call at an event, went out with my partner, O2, jump bag, AED, etc. Pt was pulseless, apneic, and cyanotic. Laid the pt out and began CPR. Well, after one cycle of compressions my (new) partner was still assembling the BVM while she radioed for the other crew on scene and their AED, and suddenly I really, REALLY wished that I had the pocket mask I had to buy for training. So you know what I did that night? I put it on my belt, right next to the Leatherman and the Surefire, both of which I've also had to use on calls. That way, the next time I'm in that position I don't have to choose between giving air and a mouthful of puke, which as a CPR instructor I can tell you is no choice at all. (Pt recovered, btw).
> 
> 2. I will always, always believe that EMS needs to become a paramilitary style organization in training, operations, and organization, the details of which I can save for another thread, but since we're talking about "whacker-dom" I can point out that the military issues load-bearing vests that allow soldiers to carry the majority of their gear ON THEIR PERSON so that it is accessible in a crisis. That logic holds true when you are plunging into service at an MCI. No, it doesn't happen everyday, but i prefer to Be Prepared and not have to go running back to the bag. So carrying your scope, shears, your penlight, some 4x4s in the cargo pocket, whatever, is only going to make you a more effective practitioner of EMS, and efficiency is priority #1. It's certainly not going to make you WORSE. All the training in the world is useless if you don't have your equipment, and all the gear in the world isn't going to save you if you don't take your job seriously and study up. If you just want to wear straight officer-style slacks and your duty shirt and keep all the other gear in the bag and the truck, by all means. Just don't criticize someone for wanting to equip themselves appropriately for the unexpected.
> 
> ...



1. I don't see it being an issue to just go to the bag. I have to say, I don't agree with the rush rush rush type thinking you seem to have. Very few things can't wait to reach into a bag. Additionally you must get pretty tired carrying all that stuff around. I don't have anything against people who wanna wear a few bits and pieces. I just worry that in some the need to be "tac'd out" is indicative of a provider who is more interested in a sort of paramilitary aesthetic than being a well educated provider. 

2. The kind of MCI where you need buckets of 4x4 and things like not just rare, they almost never happen. To constantly wear a vest carrying all that stuff would surely be counter productive. It would get in way, get caught on stuff. I just have this picture of apologising to Nanna Chest Pain after you knocked her favourite vase over when it caught on you EMS stormtrooper gear. 

3. Uniform is important. No doubt about that. It adds a certain authority which is useful in two ways. 1. When you need to tell people to piss off/move back/do this/do that, it works better in uniform. 2. It makes people feel like they're being looked after by someone who is reasonably professional. Just like Drs wear reasonably formal cloths. Can you imagine telling a mother that her son is dead wearing a cradle of filth hoody. I would never wear a uniform polo shirt for example, and I don't like the look of the new cargo pants we have. We need to look professional and formal, not imposing and "cool" in a military sense.


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## FirstInTac'dOut (Aug 8, 2011)

EMT-DAN 1. About the mask, pt taken. You're right, the updated protocols do maintain that there is enough tidal volume to just begin another cycle of compressions in that sense. At the same time, it doesn't hurt to give the breaths too. Again, though, you're right, the next ventilations given with BVM+O2 did the trick anyway.


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## FirstInTac'dOut (Aug 8, 2011)

Mr. Conspiracy-
Neat and squared away is certainly one thing, but there you can look that way and look like any highway patrol officer in the world. There was another quality that uniform had: The officer DIDN'T look like a typical neat, pressed, creased, belted officer- he looked like he was actually ready for anything, not just morning inspection. Maybe it's irrelevant to an EMS discussion, but I was trying to convey the difference in impressions. Sometimes being neat is one thing, looking prepared is another.


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## FirstInTac'dOut (Aug 8, 2011)

Melclin-
EMS stormtrooper- that made me laugh. Good natured ribbing I can take. You're right about the almost-never nature of an MCI. But I like to prepare for any possibility, not just the probability. That doesn't mean that I go see NannaChestPain like that, just that the equipment is available to be a more effective provider if we DO come upon a scene like that. 
It's not a rush-rush nature that I have, just a desire to move quickly to identify and solve problems in a quick algorithmic pattern. Efficient patient care. Had a state EMS inspector show up on scene (MCI, yes) and compliment our team on it a few weeks ago, for what that's worth.
On the other hand, you're absolutely right. The kind of provider who spends more time in the lights&sirens section of the Galls website than they did/do in their textbooks/personal con-ed research is probably trying to hide their lack of knowledge with shiny stuff. That happens in every profession, to be sure, but like I said, you start with the knowledge and then try and give yourself all the tools to be both competent AND capable of providing treatment.


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## FirstInTac'dOut (Aug 8, 2011)

Melclin-
EMS stormtrooper- that made me laugh. Good natured ribbing I can take. You're right about the almost-never nature of an MCI. But I like to prepare for any possibility, not just the probability. That doesn't mean that I go see NannaChestPain like that, just that the equipment is available to be a more effective provider if we DO come upon a scene like that. 
It's not a rush-rush nature that I have, just a desire to move quickly to identify and solve problems in a quick algorithmic pattern. Efficient patient care. Had a state EMS inspector show up on scene (MCI, yes) and compliment our team on it a few weeks ago, for what that's worth.
On the other hand, you're absolutely right. The kind of provider who spends more time in the lights&sirens section of the Galls website than they did/do in their textbooks/personal con-ed research is probably trying to hide their lack of knowledge with shiny stuff. That happens in every profession, to be sure, but like I said, you start with the knowledge and then try and give yourself all the tools to be both competent AND capable of providing treatment.


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## bstone (Aug 8, 2011)

I gutted my car last night looking for a stethoscope. I found a lot of tools, but no EMS gear. I failed the wacker test.


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