# EMT-I/99 is not a Paramedic!!



## VirginiaEMT (Oct 18, 2012)

I was one of those stating that I could do all of the skills of a paramedic as an EMT-I/99. WRONG!! Every time I go to paramedic class I realize that have a lot to learn. It is like the epiphany that I had in my B to I class. I realized that I knew very little as an EMT-B. TAKE A PARAMEDIC CLASS IF IT IS A POSSIBILITY.


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## NomadicMedic (Oct 18, 2012)




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## usalsfyre (Oct 18, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> I was one of those stating that I could do all of the skills of a paramedic as an EMT-I/99. WRONG!! Every time I go to paramedic class I realize that have a lot to learn. It is like the epiphany that I had in my B to I class. I realized that I knew very little as an EMT-B. TAKE A PARAMEDIC CLASS IF IT IS A POSSIBILITY.



And now you see why those of us who come from states like VA get a little peeved about the whole "medic" title....

I could teach a weekend course on how to do the skills. It's the application that's hard to learn.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 18, 2012)

Just wait till you go for a class above paramedic... Going to feel pretty lacking in knowledge then too...


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## VirginiaEMT (Oct 18, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> Just wait till you go for a class above paramedic... Going to feel pretty lacking in knowledge then too...



I think paramedic may be it for me. I'm 48, have a full-time career as  commercial insurance agent and work part-time for an EMS agency (24-36 hours hours a week). I am also worn out from just finishing the EMT-I/99 class and going straight into paramedic. Who knows what the future holds!! I have a feeling it will take all I have left to stay on top of being a quality paramedic.


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## Jambi (Oct 18, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> I think paramedic may be it for me. I'm 48, have a full-time career as  commercial insurance agent and work part-time for an EMS agency (24-36 hours hours a week). I am also worn out from just finishing the EMT-I/99 class and going straight into paramedic. Who knows what the future holds!! I have a feeling it will take all I have left to stay on top of being a quality paramedic.



There's a story that finished or started med school at 59...


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## EMT2PAC (Oct 18, 2012)

Does the I99 to Paramedic bridge program truly fill in all the gaps?


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## Jambi (Oct 18, 2012)

EMT2PAC said:


> Does the I99 to Paramedic bridge program truly fill in all the gaps?



One would think that it would as it still has to hit the content benchmarks the paramedic curriculum requires.


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## mycrofft (Oct 19, 2012)

Down with all these half-step EMT add-on certificates.

Ok, you've hit your ceiling in EMS. How about disaster preparedness?


PS: See Jambi's signature line.


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## VirginiaEMT (Oct 19, 2012)

mycrofft said:


> Down with all these half-step EMT add-on certificates.
> 
> Ok, you've hit your ceiling in EMS. How about disaster preparedness?
> 
> ...



Great idea!! I actually am going to travel as part of a medical team from my church with Mennonite Disaster Service to disaster areas throughout the world such as New Orleans and Haiti. My wife and my retirement plan is to sell the house, buy an R.V, and travel throughout the U.S helping others get back on their feet.


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## 46Young (Oct 19, 2012)

When I moved to Virginia it was a shock that many departments place EMT-I's in the same category as  Paramedics, call them "ALS," and give them identical lattitude /scope. 

Where I come from, the I-99 (EMT-CC in NY) was largely mother-may-I for most interventions, in that they had to call for everything, and appropriately so. The educational levels are too different, and the current Paramedic curriculum is barely adequate as it is. The better medics take it upon themselves to educate past the standard curriculum.

To me, the EMT-I, at least a new one is still too much "see A - do B" instead of using clinical judgment due to the lack of education. It baffles me how providers here want to go EMT-B > E > I > P instead of going right from B to P. NYC medics go this route, and do fine. Taking baby steps is unecessary, expensive (both for opportunity cost of not making medic pay and also the cost of the classes) and redundant.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 19, 2012)

46Young said:


> When I moved to Virginia it was a shock that many departments place EMT-I's in the same category as  Paramedics, call them "ALS," and give them identical lattitude /scope.
> 
> Where I come from, the I-99 (EMT-CC in NY) was largely mother-may-I for most interventions, in that they had to call for everything, and appropriately so. The educational levels are too different, and the current Paramedic curriculum is barely adequate as it is. The better medics take it upon themselves to educate past the standard curriculum.
> 
> To me, the EMT-I, at least a new one is still too much "see A - do B" instead of using clinical judgment due to the lack of education. It baffles me how providers here want to go EMT-B > E > I > P instead of going right from B to P. NYC medics go this route, and do fine. Taking baby steps is unecessary, expensive (both for opportunity cost of not making medic pay and also the cost of the classes) and redundant.




I believe EMT-CC in NY is considered to be above an EMT-I and below a medic by educational standards.


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## Farmer2DO (Oct 20, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> I believe EMT-CC in NY is considered to be above an EMT-I and below a medic by educational standards.



That may be, but the EMT-CC in New York (State) is still a VERY weak imitation of the paramedic, IMHO.  Our system is no longer credentialing them, and as of 2014, they will be considered BLS.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 20, 2012)

Farmer2DO said:


> That may be, but the EMT-CC in New York (State) is still a VERY weak imitation of the paramedic, IMHO.  Our system is no longer credentialing them, and as of 2014, they will be considered BLS.



Trust me I am aware. I work in the city where only paramedic is recognized but where I volunteer is dominated by CCs.

We have around 12 CCs and 4 paramedics. (3 of the medics never show up for calls)

They don't follow assessment based management whatsoever, they are an empowered EMT. In my county they must call medical control for everything but D50. Even narcan they have to call.


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## mycrofft (Oct 20, 2012)

"How To Get ALS* Without Training or Paying Wages For It".


*sort of.


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## 46Young (Oct 20, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> I believe EMT-CC in NY is considered to be above an EMT-I and below a medic by educational standards.



I see. Until I moved down South I was vaguely aware of some certs called I-85 and I-99, but paid no mind since NYC employers only recognize EMT and EMT-P. When I asked about their education, It just sounded a lot like the EMT-CC's except that they didn't have to call for everything. I thought "EMT-CC" was just a sexed up name for the I-99.

BTW, in WV, medics have to call for a bunch of stuff still, regardless if EMT-I or paramedic. I guess the state isn't impressed by their providers?


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## VFlutter (Oct 20, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> And now you see why those of us who come from states like VA get a little peeved about the whole "medic" title....



I usually do not care about titles but I  went to a new doctors office a few weeks ago and the medical assistants called themselves nurses. That really touched a nerve. I have spent the past four years of my life in school, put myself in debt, and just emptied by bank account down to $10 to pay for all my license paperwork and NCLEX so that I can hopefully earn that title. (I know RN is the legal title but I still think going by nurse is misleading, especially to the public who do not know any better)


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## usalsfyre (Oct 20, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> I usually do not care about titles but I  went to a new doctors office a few weeks ago and the medical assistants called themselves nurses. That really touched a nerve. I have spent the past four years of my life in school, put myself in debt, and just emptied by bank account down to $10 to pay for all my license paperwork and NCLEX so that I can hopefully earn that title. (I know RN is the legal title but I still think going by nurse is misleading, especially to the public who do not know any better)



Just remember that when your colleagues are pushing the "DNPs are doctor's too" malarkey.


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## mycrofft (Oct 21, 2012)

Misrepresenting yourself as a medical provider...I know it's a crime in many states as a MD, and I think it is as a nurse. I bet it's a civil liability for any level of caregiver in any state.

Too many little nooks and crannies of EMS titles all designed to get providers to work cheap beyond their wholistic base of training. You want to start IV's and put tubes into people, get your Paramedic or RN or MD or PA/FNP.


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## VirginiaEMT (Oct 22, 2012)

46Young said:


> When I moved to Virginia it was a shock that many departments place EMT-I's in the same category as  Paramedics, call them "ALS," and give them identical lattitude /scope.
> 
> *Where are you located in the Shenandoah Valley?*
> 
> ...



*I disagree. I went from B to I and now to P, skipping over E. I am very thankful that I took the I/99 class before paramedic although I had no intention at the time of even taking a paramedic class. I went into the paramedic class knowing med. math, I.Vs, EKGs(although not as much as I thought), and most skills, now I can concentrate on learning ONLY what I wasn't taught in the I class or correcting what I thought I knew. I don't see how anything can be redundant if you are continually growing.  If that were the case, reading more than 1 book on EKGs is redundant.*


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## Jambi (Oct 22, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> *I disagree. I went from B to I and now to P, skipping over E. I am very thankful that I took the I/99 class before paramedic although I had no intention at the time of even taking a paramedic class. I went into the paramedic class knowing med. math, I.Vs, EKGs(although not as much as I thought), and most skills, now I can concentrate on learning ONLY what I wasn't taught in the I class or correcting what I thought I knew. I don't see how anything can be redundant if you are continually growing.  If that were the case, reading more than 1 book on EKGs is redundant.*



...but paramedic vocational training isn't so difficult that such things shouldn't be a concern.  I realize difficulty is relevant, and dependant on the person, but it's not a difficult program.

Now for those whose only "education" is previous EMS training, then yes, paramedic is a huge leap.  I would suggest that the "leap" to paramedic for those with a science background is more "meh."


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## ExpatMedic0 (Oct 22, 2012)

Jambi said:


> There's a story that finished or started med school at 59...





VirginiaEMT said:


> I think paramedic may be it for me. I'm 48, have a full-time career as  commercial insurance agent and work part-time for an EMS agency (24-36 hours hours a week). I am also worn out from just finishing the EMT-I/99 class and going straight into paramedic. Who knows what the future holds!! I have a feeling it will take all I have left to stay on top of being a quality paramedic.



well I feel better about being 30 and currently completing an undergrad degree on campus


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## Jambi (Oct 22, 2012)

schulz said:


> well I feel better about being 30 and currently completing an undergrad degree on campus



I'm 32 and just finished medic school (that I went to on a whim) and am in my last class for my BA.


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## 46Young (Oct 22, 2012)

VirginiaEMT said:


> *I disagree. I went from B to I and now to P, skipping over E. I am very thankful that I took the I/99 class before paramedic although I had no intention at the time of even taking a paramedic class. I went into the paramedic class knowing med. math, I.Vs, EKGs(although not as much as I thought), and most skills, now I can concentrate on learning ONLY what I wasn't taught in the I class or correcting what I thought I knew. I don't see how anything can be redundant if you are continually growing.  If that were the case, reading more than 1 book on EKGs is redundant.*



When I took the Paramedic Original out of N.Y.Methodist, each of these subjects were alloted ample time, so it's uneccesary to have done it prior to learning it in medic school, if that makes sense. You'll get everything that you need in medic school. There's no need to do some of the medic stuff beforehand just to make medic school easier.

My issue is that the I-99's were allowed to function with the same scope and autonomy as the paramedic, with much less education. I also feel that the I-99 may not learn as much from each pt contact as the medic will, due to their inferior education (compared to the paramedic). 

Really, phebotomists learn IV's, and any high school student that passed the most basic algebra course can do med math with a few day's instruction. Cardiology is different, but ECG prowess is of limited use without a solid education in Cardiology, unless you're trained to "see A then do B" with no deviation.


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## JPINFV (Oct 22, 2012)

Back to the topic... isn't it Ohio that calls their I/99s "paramedics" and their paramedics "paramedic specialists"?


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## usalsfyre (Oct 22, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> Back to the topic... isn't it Ohio that calls their I/99s "paramedics" and their paramedics "paramedic specialists"?



Indiana


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## Jambi (Oct 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> Indiana



I think we should be calling everyone paramedic like Canada. It's not like the public can tell the difference.


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## Jambi (Oct 22, 2012)

Also, with all this I99 talk going on it may be useful to remember that NREMT has done away with all "I" levels. If I remember correctly, it was for all the same reasons that are gone over here: it muddies the waters.

States can hold on if they want, but it will likely change IMO.


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## Medic Tim (Oct 22, 2012)

Jambi said:


> I think we should be calling everyone paramedic like Canada. It's not like the public can tell the difference.



Our BLS Medics (EMT in Alberta) is about the AEMT in the US(It is usually the minimum to run 911, some rural areas use FR). Below that is First responder, which is about the same as a US Basic. I would have a hard time calling a FR a medic like many in the US would have an issue with calling a basic a Medic.


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## Frozennoodle (Oct 25, 2012)

46Young said:


> To me, the EMT-I, at least a new one is still too much "see A - do B" instead of using clinical judgment due to the lack of education. It baffles me how providers here want to go EMT-B > E > I > P instead of going right from B to P. NYC medics go this route, and do fine. Taking baby steps is unecessary, expensive (both for opportunity cost of not making medic pay and also the cost of the classes) and redundant.



I did it like that because of the extra pay involved for EMT-I.  I get this question a lot and over paramedic school I made an extra 8k on top of what I would have made as a basic.  I paid 800 for the course.  Mathematically it just made sense to me.  I also got an opportunity to be in the lead provider role using what I was learning in P school while I was at work.  It really helped build my confidence as a provider. 

I also couldn't start P school til the next semester so I had a free semester to do it.


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## VirginiaEMT (Oct 25, 2012)

Frozennoodle said:


> I did it like that because of the extra pay involved for EMT-I.  I get this question a lot and over paramedic school I made an extra 8k on top of what I would have made as a basic.  I paid 800 for the course.  Mathematically it just made sense to me.  I also got an opportunity to be in the lead provider role using what I was learning in P school while I was at work.  It really helped build my confidence as a provider.
> 
> I also couldn't start P school til the next semester so I had a free semester to do it.[/QUOTE
> 
> I haven't spent one cent on my education thus far, other than books I have chosen to purchase outside of the classroom setting to learn. I am being reimbursed a majority of my paramedic fees as well.


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