# RIP. Another HEMS crash.



## SandpitMedic (Mar 26, 2016)

Another HEMS unit has crashed leaving no survivors. 3 crew and the patient are believed dead in Alabama.

RIP. 

Safety safety safety.
Again it appears weather may be a factor.


http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/03/four_dead_in_crash_of_medical.html


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## Sleepnheat (Mar 26, 2016)

Prayers to the families.....


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## CANMAN (Mar 26, 2016)

Same old story, pushing weather for profit..... Both crew member's had only been flying since 09/2015 and sounds like a private ambo company with a very small HEMS component. Single engine non-IFR airframe out flying in marginal to IFR type conditions reported at the LZ (300 foot ceilings with a 0/0 temp/dewpoint spread). This trend shows either people are not learning from others mistakes, or they just don't care. Crashed 1/2 mile from the scene... Aborting the patient leg and going by ground could have saved 3 lives. It's sad. RIP and prayers to the families. Before anyone flames me, all this info is from a friend who works in HEMS and is from the area.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 26, 2016)

No need to flame... 

You're absolutely right- same story over and over.


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## SeeNoMore (Apr 2, 2016)

Every time I read a story like this I consider getting out of HEMS...it's chilling. My thoughts are with their families. Stay safe everyone


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## CANMAN (Apr 2, 2016)

SeeNoMore said:


> Every time I read a story like this I consider getting out of HEMS...it's chilling. My thoughts are with their families. Stay safe everyone



I don't, it just reaffirms the great decision making that goes on in my company, and why I work for them for less money then other programs in the area. My voice is respected and can voice it at any point and we don't go or turn around, no questions asked, and we reset for the next possible mission. In this particular incident two other programs turned down the flight for weather and these guys/girl decided to go flying. That stuff just doesn't happen where I work.


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## gotbeerz001 (Apr 2, 2016)

CANMAN said:


> I don't, it just reaffirms the great decision making that goes on in my company, and why I work for them for less money then other programs in the area. My voice is respected and can voice it at any point and we don't go or turn around, no questions asked, and we reset for the next possible mission. In this particular incident two other programs turned down the flight for weather and these guys/girl decided to go flying. That stuff just doesn't happen where I work.


Sounds like a great outfit.


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## CANMAN (Apr 2, 2016)

gotshirtz001 said:


> Sounds like a great outfit.



Thanks man, it's certainly is in my opinion, and I'm not just drinking the Kool-Aid. I just turned down a management position with another program, and easily a 20k raise to stay where I am at. It was a hard decision, but didn't feel right and I didn't want to make a move solely based off money. 

I think it's extremely hard in HEMS to know what's important and what to look for when scoping out a place to work when you're just getting started. A lot of medics are so eager to get hired and fly that they just take the first thing that comes to them. I applied solely to my company, and was rejected twice before I was extended an offer, but I was glad I stuck with it.

Point being is we all are aware of the dangers in the industry, and it's up to the individuals to make good decisions when deciding where to work, and when to go flying. I will never understand why intelligent people continue to make the same decision which have killed so many before them. If you're under that much pressure to fly, either from management or financial, people need to turn in their helmet and find another job. I would go back to a private ambo ground gig in a second if I felt like my safety was in jeopardy or my voice wasn't being heard. We certainly aren't immune from an error at my program causing my untimely death, however I truly believe we take all the appropriate actions to bring that risk down to an acceptable level......


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## Carlos Danger (Apr 2, 2016)

There is just so much dysfunction in the industry these days. The holier-than-thou attitudes, the "elite" med-crew members who dont know half what they think they do, the medically unnecessary flights, the gross lack of ethics in essentially lying to a patient about the necessity of flying them 15 miles only to be discharged a few hours later, and then bankrupting them with a massive bill that they can't pay. And then the safety issues that are obviously rampant. I know there are lots of really good people in HEMS and still some really good programs, but on the whole, the industry just seems to get worse and worse. 

I'll admit, I still really miss the camaraderie with my coworkers and there's nothing better than a good scene call, but overall I'm really glad I'm not in it anymore.


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## SeeNoMore (Apr 5, 2016)

The decision making of the crew and pilot is the only barrier between you and these accidents.  I am always very vocal about this being the number one priority (not enough flights for the base, not keeping my jobs etc etc). I am also very careful to pay attention to indications that safety is becoming compromised. If anybody expresses any discomfort its an immediate time out in my book until the issues are considered / addressed to everyones satisfaction to include turning down a flight.


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## RedAirplane (Apr 9, 2016)

CANMAN said:


> I don't, it just reaffirms the great decision making that goes on in my company, and why I work for them for less money then other programs in the area. My voice is respected and can voice it at any point and we don't go or turn around, no questions asked, and we reset for the next possible mission. In this particular incident two other programs turned down the flight for weather and these guys/girl decided to go flying. That stuff just doesn't happen where I work.



Aren't flight programs supposed to ask whether any other flight program has turned down the mission due to weather, and if so, automatically reject?


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## CANMAN (Apr 9, 2016)

RedAirplane said:


> Aren't flight programs supposed to ask whether any other flight program has turned down the mission due to weather, and if so, automatically reject?



In a perfect world I would say they at least should be given that information, but depending on what the weather situation is there may be a reason one program can do the mission when someone else can't. For example in my program we are often able to complete flights with an IFR flight plan, and do the mission safely in low ceilings or visability when a lot of the surrounding programs just don't have the capability. My program owns over 80 of their own GPS approaches into certain airports and hospitals. This means we are able to launch IFR, and IFR is some of the safest flying you will do with a well trained IFR rated pilot and airframe. 

There is also the scenario of weather tracking. Sometimes a certain base in my program will turn down for weather for various factors, however a base to the south, east, or west of the weather system might be able to do it without issue based off where the weather is/tracking. 

THE PROBLEM enlies when you have VFR only programs turning flights down for weather, and competitors know the weather is marginal or borderline IFR and accept it anyway so they can attempt the flight and get the revenue... Like the case in this most recent crash....


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## Carlos Danger (Apr 9, 2016)

It used to be a CAMTS requirement that an accredited program notify other programs in the area when they turn down a request due to weather. 

Here in the SE it is common to have pop-up thunderstorms on summer afternoons that are very localized. It used to be pretty routine for the pilot at our closest base to a request to say "we can't make it due to weather, but ask <the pilot of> Med 3 what he thinks, since they'd be coming from a different direction" and then Med 3 would safely take the request.


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## SandpitMedic (Apr 10, 2016)

Remi said:


> It used to be a CAMTS requirement that an accredited program notify other programs in the area when they turn down a request due to weather.
> 
> Here in the SE it is common to have pop-up thunderstorms on summer afternoons that are very localized. It used to be pretty routine for the pilot at our closest base to a request to say "we can't make it due to weather, but ask <the pilot of> Med 3 what he thinks, since they'd be coming from a different direction" and then Med 3 would safely take the request.


 Theoretically a great idea... However, competing agencies and all. Cash is king apparently.


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