# There goes the Individual Mandate



## ffemt8978 (Dec 22, 2013)

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304367204579270252042143502



> It seems Nancy Pelosi was wrong when she said "we have to pass" ObamaCare to "find out what's in it." No one may ever know because the White House keeps treating the Affordable Care Act's text as a mere suggestion subject to day-to-day revision. Its latest political retrofit is the most brazen: President Obama is partly suspending the individual mandate.
> 
> The White House argued at the Supreme Court that the insurance-purchase mandate was not only constitutional but essential to the law's success, while refusing Republican demands to delay or repeal it. But late on Thursday, with only four days to go before the December enrollment deadline, the Health and Human Services Department decreed that millions of Americans are suddenly exempt.
> 
> Individuals whose health plans were canceled will now automatically qualify for a "hardship exemption" from the mandate. If they can't or don't sign up for a new plan, they don't have to pay the tax. They can also get a special category of ObamaCare insurance designed for people under age 30.


----------



## MMiz (Dec 22, 2013)

What a mess.


----------



## xrsm002 (Dec 23, 2013)

That's what my father in law whose in congress has been dating since way before this happened, he was against ACA abs wants to repeal it.


----------



## mycrofft (Dec 23, 2013)

1. Ms Pelosi needs to retire.
2. Starting Obamacare has been like starting an IV while being shot at from close range.


----------



## unleashedfury (Dec 24, 2013)

Its a disaster, 

As a American I shouldn't be required to maintain my own healthcare coverage, I am quite healthy as an individual and see my PCP when I need to. costs about 40 dollars a visit, 

If I have to pay a healthcare bill I pay it,

I don't agree with small busniesses dumping their health insurances on their employees cause its cheaper to pay the penalty,

In the end the american people lose, 
Businesses and health insurance companies win, They'll be the ones making money.


----------



## mycrofft (Dec 24, 2013)

I wish to God these Obamacare threads were closed as a class, or screened for accuracy of basic knowledge.


----------



## JPINFV (Dec 24, 2013)

Because, you know, we aren't already paying for the vast majority of people's health care anyways. I'm sure that the 20 something who just got out of the ICU again for DKA (double digit number of visits, all for DKA, all including an ICU stay) over the past 3-4 years at my hospital alone because he has insurance... Medicaid (well, county run MediCal plan). 

...or maybe health insurance is a bit more nuanced than the Bootstrap McBooties makes it out to be. 

The reality is that as long as a significant number of people are on government insurance (Medicare, Medicade, TriCare, etc) and the EMTALA mandate, we have defacto government insurance. The only question is when are we going to realize it.


----------



## mycrofft (Dec 25, 2013)

If two days in the ICU didn't cost the same as my house, we wouldn't need assistance.

Private insurance depends upon investment plus healthy members to underwrite sick ones. They cut off members who cost to much despite need, and refuse to enroll those whose medical needs are going to cost the fund.

Government does the same only it sells bonds and invests, and it enrolls everyone it can.

Yeah, you are twenty and never even need tooth cleaning, so you feel the old and the lame are riding on your back. Tomorrow a drunk driver t-bones your spouse's car, the deductible  then the ceiling amount are run past, and not only are you stuck with the mountainous bills but that patient can no longer get insurance with that (or any) company again, except later and under really higher premiums.
Medial bills have become the number one source of personal bankruptcy in America.  http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Or you wrench your back on the job, wind up on disability with chronic pain issues or need serial operations. Same deal.

The final option is for you to declare bankruptcy, find a corner, shut up and die. Literally. Unless we all pitch in and fix this.


----------



## ghost02 (Dec 25, 2013)

I am twenty right now, and there is no way in hell I will ever have less than what the 'Platinum' ACA plans are. If I ever get in a bad accident, or get cancer or any other serious ailment of the body, then I know that both myself, as well as my parents will not go bankrupt paying for it. That in itself is true piece of mind.

Do I wish I had that chunk of my paycheck to pay for other things? Absolutely. But, life is about sacrifice, and this is one of the very important ones. I would rather go without a nice car or house or going out to dinner than have to think about what would happen if something bad was to happen.

I have met far to many people, especially in College, who get ill and then do not go to the doctor due to not being insured, and then they go on and get a far more serious illness due to neglecting to get help. It sucks to have your best friend have to go to the hospital for something that started as a flu.

A flu shot costs me $50, and there is no way I would miss getting that. I was one of the few who didn't get this flu due to it.

Not being insured is just short-sighted, in my opinion at least.

As a side note, it doesn't bother me to pay for the sick ones that I do pay for through insurance, I know I will be in the same boat one day.



A personal story: My Grandfather got very bad cancer when he was 70, and my father got a call that my Grandfathers medical costs just hit one million dollars, but because he had such good insurance it was a none issue. If he didn't get such good coverage my dad would have been bankrupt. That story alone is enough for me to always have the best insurance I can...


----------



## Medic2409 (Dec 25, 2013)

The way they went about this is NOT the right, appropriate, or even Constitutional way to do it.

If the law was so wonderful, why is Obama running scared?


----------



## Carlos Danger (Dec 25, 2013)

ghost02 said:


> I am twenty right now, and there is no way in hell I will ever have less than what the 'Platinum' ACA plans are. If I ever get in a bad accident, or get cancer or any other serious ailment of the body, then I know that both myself, as well as my parents will not go bankrupt paying for it. That in itself is true piece of mind.



What used to be the way to go were the old "major medical" plans. They were dirt cheap for young healthy people because they only paid for major costs....ICU stays, major surgery, etc. Routine medical costs such as office visits and prescriptions were for your to pay out of pocket. 

You got piece of mind that you were covered if anything really bad happened, but the plan cost a lot less than if it covered everything.


----------



## ghost02 (Dec 25, 2013)

Medic2409 said:


> The way they went about this is NOT the right, appropriate, or even Constitutional way to do it.
> 
> If the law was so wonderful, why is Obama running scared?



%100 correct.


----------



## unleashedfury (Dec 28, 2013)

Halothane said:


> What used to be the way to go were the old "major medical" plans. They were dirt cheap for young healthy people because they only paid for major costs....ICU stays, major surgery, etc. Routine medical costs such as office visits and prescriptions were for your to pay out of pocket.
> 
> You got piece of mind that you were covered if anything really bad happened, but the plan cost a lot less than if it covered everything.



Thats what I have now, it costs about 30 bucks a month for me, my kids are covered under the mother, I also get a "health savings plan" that gives me 1200 dollars to cover costs not covered by my insurance. Catch 22.. that 1200 bucks is annually and its use it or lose it. I seen my family doc this year twice so in about 3 days it will roll over to 1200 again.


----------



## Wheel (Dec 28, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> Thats what I have now, it costs about 30 bucks a month for me, my kids are covered under the mother, I also get a "health savings plan" that gives me 1200 dollars to cover costs not covered by my insurance. Catch 22.. that 1200 bucks is annually and its use it or lose it. I seen my family doc this year twice so in about 3 days it will roll over to 1200 again.



Do you have a qualifying high deductible plan? If so, you should be contributing to an HSA, which is pretax and will roll over, rather than an FSA, which will not roll over. An HSA cam be used for medical expenses with no tax burden, and then after you turn 65 can be withdrawn like a Roth, where you pay your tax rate and it can be used for anything.


----------



## dixie_flatline (Jan 8, 2014)

The simple fact is that costs are out of control in the US, and ACA (Obamacare) is a half-measure.  People were calling for blood over shady lending practices that led to huge debt and unpayable mortgages.  The fact is that over 60% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills.  75% of those bankruptcies are 'middle class' families with insurance. (Sources! http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/insured-but-bankrupted-anyway/?_r=0 http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_study/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf)

As Mycrofft said, this is one of those big issues that should transcend partisan politics.

Everyone should also be required to watch this video if they haven't already.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M


----------

