# Officers Taze and shoot 5 lb dog 3 times



## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

> CINCINNATI -- A Blue Ash family is outraged after returning home to find their dog had been shot and killed by a police officer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think these cops way over reacted, even if the dog was being aggressive it only weighs 5 lbs a simple kick would of been enough to get the dog off them. They should be fired on the spot.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Those heartless jerks! Perhaps if they hadn't terrorized the poor thing they could have picked it up and dropped him over the fence back into the back yard! Even if he bit, he's a small five pound dog! Jesus people! They are far bigger than the dog, and animal control deals with animals bigger than that all the time without shooting them.


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

Exactly, Its kinda scary to think about but if those cops are so trigger happy to shoot a cornered 5 lb dog what else are they capable of.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

A 5lb dog isn't a threat to their safety. A 5lb dog biting one officer definitely does not justify deadly force.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

subliminal1284 said:


> Exactly, Its kinda scary to think about but if those cops are so trigger happy to shoot a cornered 5 lb dog what else are they capable of.



It kind of makes me wonder that if they couldn't handle a five pound dog, could they handle some thug breaking into a house?

Replace five pound dog with two year old child. would they shoot a two year old who bit them?? Doubtful.


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## Scout (Jun 12, 2009)

If it bit someone it should be put down. Now they should have called for the SPCA but i would feel far more confident going up against a German Shepard than a Chihuahua. Having said that 3 shots?  and a handgun should not have been used like that in a, I would assume, residential area.


Those dogs can hurt.


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

You do realize that most dogs will bite someone if they feel threatened and dont know the person right? The dog was cornered and scared ANY dog would of probably done the same thing, doesnt make them an aggressive dog that needs to be put down.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Well, seeing as how you kept the REST OF THE DARN STORY OUT of the thread, I can see where the confusion would come in.


That's like posting "Police shoot 12 year old" without posting WHY.



Keep in mind--- if a dog bites a human in an aggressive manner, no matter your views, it will be put down.


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

The whole story was posted but it was removed.


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

Link to full story

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/19703520/detail.html


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Googled for more.




> Blue Ash police say one of the officers was bitten on both hands. One hand was bitten 17 times and the other was bitten nine times.
> 
> The dog was holding on so tight he left one of his teeth in the officer's hands.



That's a heck of a lot more then a defensive bite.

I have a puppy.  They have sharp teeth and can make you bleed easily.  I'm a dog person, and I'm still not outraged at what happened.


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

They shouldnt have gotten themselves into that situation in the first place, unless someone was in immediate danger from the dog they should of just called animal control and let them capture the dog.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> That's a heck of a lot more then a defensive bite.



Was there some sort of police emergency going on that they couldn't back away once the dog let go?
Officer couldn't have shoved the dog out of his way with his boot? A 5lb chihuahua... yes. A true life or death situation

A taze and shot 3 times.. hmm... Overkill, anyone?


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Well, seeing as how you kept the REST OF THE DARN STORY OUT of the thread, I can see where the confusion would come in.
> 
> 
> That's like posting "Police shoot 12 year old" without posting WHY.
> ...



And that's BS. What do you expect a dog to do if a child is taunting or teasing it? What do you expect a dog to do if it's scared and cornered by something 30 times it's size? We really need to re-evaluate our laws regarding animal bites. 

This isn't confusion. I read the entire story, and would like to see those police fired on the spot, what they did was animal abuse.

If anyone ever shot one of my dogs like that, after tasing them, i would hunt them down and beat the heck out of them, you don't abuse animals. End of story..


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Googled for more.



I'm going to complain about the same thing you did. 

Link please.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Newest article---

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/stor...o-Shoot-Small-Dog/i86Scq56PE6GBz0bRSbG3w.cspx



> Police say the small dog had bit a jogger and they were trying to contain it, when it clamped down on an officer’s hand and would not let go.



He didn't just attack because he was cornered.  



> the SPCA, who examined the dog after the incident,  states the dog’s primary breed as a Jack Russell Terrier and that it weighed 20 pounds.



Therefor, it had a little bit of a Chihuahua in it, and it weight a helluva lot more then "5 lbs"



> Police also say the family’s dog was not licensed and did not have its required rabies shots or other vaccinations.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Newest article---
> 
> http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/stor...o-Shoot-Small-Dog/i86Scq56PE6GBz0bRSbG3w.cspx
> 
> ...



"Jack Russell Terrier and that it weighed 20 pounds."

Again, a true life or death situation? I think not.
Do they shoot every person that fights with them? Again, I think not.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Humans don't get put down for hitting another human.

Dogs get put down for biting a human.  All the time.  Without excuse.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Humans don't get put down for hitting another human.
> 
> Dogs get put down for biting a human.  All the time.  Without excuse.



Exactly. Put down. How is that done again? Oh that's right through drugs. Not tazing then shooting it 3 times.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

I don't think I ever stated that they couldn't have gone about it in a different manner, did I?  Oh thats right, I didn't.



But you're saying what they did is excessive, when by law, and by company policy, it is not.


If an animal is a threat to human, no matter how "small", you kill it.  A 20lb dog is not a very tiny dog, and can still cause quite a bit of damage to an adult, or kill kids.   He was still holding on to the officers hand when they shot it.  


I'm sorry, but if an animal clamps down on a body part of mine, is making me bleed, tearing up tissue, and wont let go, you bet your butt I'd shoot it too.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> EDIT since Hotel changed his post.



Indeed I did. I wanted to get my message across clearly.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Any statement from the jogger supposbly bitten? Wouldn't be the first time public service people lied to cover their butt.

The dog pictured doesn't appear to be anywhere near 20 pounds. I'd like to see the vet report.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

There's the picture for you all. I know some people don't click the articles.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> There's the picture for you all. I know some people don't click the articles.



Oh no. So ferocious! I fear for my life! Aaah!!!


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Any statement from the jogger supposbly bitten? Wouldn't be the first time public service people lied to cover their butt.
> 
> The dog pictured doesn't appear to be anywhere near 20 pounds. I'd like to see the vet report.



Yes, because it's a complete and utter impossibility that the family would lie about the size of their dog to get their story out.


Oh wait, they did!  And released a picture of an innocent looking puppy to help their point!


SPCA said 20 pounds, it's 20 pounds.  Can't argue that, as the SPCA has no reason to lie.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Yes, because it's a complete and utter impossibility that the family would lie about the size of their dog to get their story out.
> 
> 
> Oh wait, they did!  And released a picture of an innocent looking puppy to help their point!
> ...



News articles get it wrong all the time. The dog pictured looks no where near 20 pounds.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> News articles get it wrong all the time. The dog pictured looks no where near 20 pounds.



Again, because it's impossible for the family to have released either an old picture or a picture to help their cause, right?



Just like families of convicted killers--- "Oh but he's such a nice kid.  Look at this picture from his graduation!  All happy!"


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

> "Once they finally did contain it, then the dog attacked the officers,” said Lt. Hartinger.



That sounds an awful lot like "cornered it" it me. What happens when dogs are cornered by people they don't know? They get nervous. How do they defend themselves? They bite.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

So where's your answer for this jogger supposbly attacked???

They inhumanely killed a dog. They should be fired and arrested.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> So where's your answer for this jogger supposbly attacked???
> 
> They inhumanely killed a dog. They should be fired and arrested.




If you're going to take the news article at face value for the pic of the dog, why are you disregarding the same news article for the jogger or the SPCA report? 

If it was an EMT or medic that was attacked, you'd be calling for the dog to be put down.  How is a cop doing it to save a limb ANY LESS alright?  You use deadly force to save life and limb.  


Thank god they will not be fired, arrested, or even suspended.  It's bad enough that a dog has to die, let alone the one cop has to get his hand mauled and now fixed.


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## ClarkKent (Jun 12, 2009)

> That officer later explained to the family that he was following procedure.



Ok I have talked to a few officers that I work with and they said that there are a few more steps they could have taken before killing the Chihuahuam (They were shocked to find out it was Chihuahua).  Pepper spray could have been used if the dog run up to them while waitting on SPCA.

If the dog is on the front porch, trying to get back into the house, they damn sure had time to call the SPCA


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

I saw no mention of the dog trying to get back in the house.  Where do you get that info? 

And it was not a Chihuahua.  It was a Jack Russel with some Chihuahua in it.  There's a difference.  Just saying it's a Chihuahua slants the story.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> If it was an EMT or medic that was attacked, you'd be calling for the dog to be put down.  How is a cop doing it to save a limb ANY LESS alright?  You use deadly force to save life and limb.



Actually, I wouldn't. The dog only attacked when cornered. It's their basic instinct.



> And it was not a Chihuahua. It was a Jack Russel with some Chihuahua in it. There's a difference. Just saying it's a Chihuahua slants the story.



It was a chihuahua mix. Looked more like a chihuahua than a jack russel. It only matters to those who think that police are above doing anything wrong.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

> “They first chose physical means, then a taser  and when those two didn't work, he had no option but to shoot the dog."



First chose physical means... They didn't know that dogs will attack when scared? If someone I didn't know tried to come and grab me, I'd fight. Sounds like the first mistake right there.

Taser? Really? They don't carry pepperspray anymore. That stuff is effective. 

Deadly force... Biting your hand is indeed, a true life or death situation. They had no choice. Ok, sure.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Actually, I wouldn't. The dog only attacked when cornered. It's their basic instinct.



Obviously not, because "Police say the small dog had bit a jogger"





HotelCo said:


> Deadly force... Biting your hand is indeed, a true life or death situation. They had no choice. Ok, sure.



What part of using deadly force to "Protect life or limb" is not understood?

On top of that, if a cop loses use of his hand, he might not have a future at a PD.  Screw his family over for a dogs life?  Right...


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 12, 2009)

News distorted the story no suprise there. I still think the cops handled it poorly though.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> What part of using deadly force to "Protect life or limb" is not understood?
> 
> On top of that, if a cop loses use of his hand, he might not have a future at a PD.  Screw his family over for a dogs life?  Right...



Have you not looked at the video in the link that you posted? Sure doesn't look like it's about to fall off. The bites don't look that bad. Superficial.


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## ClarkKent (Jun 12, 2009)

> "He 'barks' for him," added Scott Bullock. "He'd 'bark' and Jack would always come to him, so he's outside going ‘Bark bark bark,' hoping he's gonna come back. It's heartbreaking."



My bad I miss read it (sorry late night).  But still the steps should have been pepper spray, tazer, the shooting him if the dog was trying to bit the cop.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

ClarkKent said:


> My bad I miss read it (sorry late night).  But still the steps should have been pepper spray, tazer, the shooting him if the dog was trying to bit the cop.



You could always... hmm, I don't know. Back away?


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## ClarkKent (Jun 12, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> You could always... hmm, I don't know. Back away?



The dog could follow.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

> Obviously not, because "Police say the small dog had bit a jogger"



Again, I'd like to see a statement written by the jogger saying he was bitten. Not the first time public service has lied to cover their butts.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

ClarkKent said:


> The dog could follow.



Why not call animal control.. you know.. the people TRAINED to deal with stuff like that??


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> Have you not looked at the video in the link that you posted? Sure doesn't look like it's about to fall off. The bites don't look that bad. Superficial.



Because a hand has to be torn completely apart before any damage can happen to the underlying tissue.  


Pepper spray doesn't stop things that are already happening.  If they would have sprayed the dog, A) They would have been effected by it as well, and B ) The dog still wouldn't have let go.  Pepper spray is a deterrent, not a stopper. 

Watch this video http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...383664FB554B93724890383664FB554B937&FORM=VIVR

Proves 2 things-- You don't use pepper spray in close environments, and B ) It doesn't stop an attacker.





If you had an animal latched on to your hand, what would you do?


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## JPINFV (Jun 12, 2009)

*Don't taze my dog, bro!*


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

ClarkKent said:


> The dog could follow.



They couldn't step into their cars?
Go behind a fence?


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## ClarkKent (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha, that is what I am trying to get at.  Buying time for the SPCA to get there.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Again, I'd like to see a statement written by the jogger saying he was bitten. Not the first time public service has lied to cover their butts.



Again, you take the news article at face value for the size of the dog, so why not the jogger and the SPCA report?

Why are you cherry picking?


Contact the police department for the statement, as I really don't care that much about it.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Again, you take the news article at face value for the size of the dog, so why not the jogger and the SPCA report?
> 
> Why are you cherry picking?
> 
> ...



I trust a picture more than what the police say an SPCA report says. 

Of course you don't care. Police are never wrong in your eyes.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Fixed for you, JP




JPINFV said:


> *Don't taze my dog, bro!*


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I trust a picture more than what the police say an SPCA report says.
> 
> Of course you don't care. Police are never wrong in your eyes.




In this scenario, no.  They followed the use of force continuum.  How is that hard to understand?


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 12, 2009)

Okay, that's enough of the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Any more, and this thread will be closed.  This thread is not EMS related, but it is scene safety related which is why it has been left open until now.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> In this scenario, no.  They followed the use of force continuum.  How is that hard to understand?



Because there was no need to tase a dog and shoot it three times. That is animal abuse. I don't think there was a jogger, I think these were just two very stupid police officers who should be fired and arrested for animal abuse.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Because there was no need to tase a dog and shoot it three times. That is animal abuse. I don't think there was a jogger, I think these were just two very stupid police officers who should be fired and arrested for animal abuse.



So tell me, Sasha.


We're not going to debate if they should have been there or not.  Simply on force now.  What would you have done if the dog was on YOUR hand?


If you had a 20lb latched on to your hand, chomping away, destroying tissue, you'd just chill there?  Whack it once or twice, and when it refuses to get off, just wait for SPCA to show up to whack it some more?


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> In this scenario, no.  They followed the use of force continuum.  How is that hard to understand?



They shouldn't have put themselves in tht situation in the first place. 
"Oh, it's a dog? Better call animal control."


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> So tell me, Sasha.
> 
> 
> We're not going to debate if they should have been there or not.  Simply on force now.  What would you have done if the dog was on YOUR hand?
> ...



Shake it off. I've rescued my pug from a dog bigger than a 20 pound jack-chihuahua mix. Neck in it's jaws. Strangely, I didn't have to shoot it,  I didn't even really have to hurt it!


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## JPINFV (Jun 12, 2009)

Picture of the dog a week earlier...


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Shake it off. I've rescued my pug from a dog bigger than a 20 pound jack-chihuahua mix.


You do realize the officer said he couldn't shake the dog off, and it stayed latched on even after a few whacks, a taze, AND being shot twice?


I doubt you could just "shake him off", when it took THAT much force for the officer.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> You do realize the officer said he couldn't shake the dog off, and it stayed latched on even after a few whacks, a taze, AND being shot twice?
> 
> 
> I doubt you could just "shake him off", when it took THAT much force for the officer.



Maybe the officer is a pansy.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Maybe the officer is a pansy.



Maybe.


Luckily use of force is subjective and not objective in the eyes of the law.


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2009)

Linuss said:


> You do realize the officer said he couldn't shake the dog off, and it stayed latched on even after a few whacks, a taze, AND being shot twice?
> 
> 
> I doubt you could just "shake him off", when it took THAT much force for the officer.



As I said. The officer shouldn't have put himself in that position to begin with. The dog wasn't activly attacking someone. He could have, and should have, called for animal control. If the dog did attack a jogger before, the officer knew that the dog was vicious. That wasn't a clue that maybe he should have called for someone trained in capturing animals?


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> As I said. The officer shouldn't have put himself in that position to begin with. The dog wasn't activly attacking someone. He could have, and should have, called for animal control. If the dog did attack a jogger before, the officer knew that the dog was vicious. That wasn't a clue that maybe he should have called for someone trained in capturing animals?



How do you know the officer didn't witness the dog attacking the jogger when he pulled up?


We weren't in their position, and therefor do not know what was going through their minds at the time, and as such, cannot attempt to think we do.


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## Sasha (Jun 12, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> As I said. The officer shouldn't have put himself in that position to begin with. The dog wasn't activly attacking someone. He could have, and should have, called for animal control. If the dog did attack a jogger before, the officer knew that the dog was vicious. That wasn't a clue that maybe he should have called for someone trained in capturing animals?



and why would you try and pick up a vicious, 20 pound dog?


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2009)

Sasha said:


> and why would you try and pick up a vicious, 20 pound dog?



Because he's a cute little puppy in the pictures!


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 12, 2009)

Okay, that's enough of this one.


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