# WEMT Cert - usefulness of...



## TomTheDancingHobo (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi everybody,

I'm a total newbie here, so I'll probably monkey up the jargon...

A little background - I'm 24, fit, in college part-time, and trying to find a certification of some sort that will help me get through the next 2-5 years while I 'get my career on.' If it could be something that adds to whatever I eventually end up 'doing', all the better! I've considered Commerc. Driver's Lic, SCUBA instructor, urban EMT, some sort of NOLS cert, professional assassin (joke! joke!), etc. But most of them sound boring, anti-social, overly time-consuming, and/or soul-numbing (driving truck).

A friend mentioned RMI's WEMT/MPIC as being a very good pathway to expedition/outdoors(SAR, wildland firefighting, oilrig, etc.) employment. I have done SAR, love the outdoors (work in forestry), and have always been interested in doing first responder work, so it sounds great. From what she said there are temporary jobs that I could take and supplement with part-time UrbanEMT work. 
Since I am also very interested in working with NOLS or other wilderness programs as an instructor/guide, the work like that also sounds like it could be a good stepping-stone.

I am trying to get an idea of... 
What kinds of jobs (both temp/seasonal and long-term) are actually out there - she said they were readily available to those with flexible schedules -
Whether they pay enough to justify a relatively expensive course, and 
Whether most of them require additional training (Underwater Helicopter Escape Training, Paramedic Cert, Basic Offshore Survival Training, random agency-specific governmental certs, etc.) - which sounds interesting, but which I couldn't pony for right off the bat.
All of these questions apply equally to the USCG MPIC Cert.

I enjoy working with people and tactical-type situations, but have never been the military type, so from my friend and the looks of the RMI website this sounds great, but I'm trying to get a picture of what it's really like.

Thanks for your time everybody!
Tom (TomTheDancingHobo)


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## zmedic (Jan 25, 2010)

Certain jobs like the WEMT, but their mainly outdoor leadership/education positions like leading groups of teenagers. SAR likes the WEMT, but SAR is a job for very very few people. Places like oil rigs might like to see that you have wilderness training, but they tend to want medics because if someone gets hurt they want someone who can give pain meds, start IVs etc, not just improvise a splint. 

So you'd most likely either end up working as an urban EMT who is able to use your wilderness skills off duty hiking or doing SAR, or you could be a full time wilderness instructor who has medical training. Some places like NOLS require you to take a leadership course (expensive), others will train you but they expect that you have a fair amount of wilderness experience. 


I think the best reason to get the WEMT is because you are active in the outdoors, and want to know what to do if someone gets hurt while you are out climbing/boating etc. 

The other nice thing about the WEMT is you get your national (urban) cert in a month. I liked that much more than taking classes a few nights a week for months. That's one of the reasons it's so expensive, because you are there full time and getting food and board. 

I think the WEMT tends to have better teachers because it is taught by full time educators rather than medics who teach a night or two a week.


Hope that helps. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I kept my WEMT for about 7 years, and in that time did SAR, ski patrol, urban EMS, lead whitewater kayaking trips and am now in med school.


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## TomTheDancingHobo (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for your advice!

That is sort of what I expected. I am really interested, though, in doing things like ski patrol and outdoor group-leadership. I don't know much about their requirements, but I would like to know more. It seems like they are both things you could do seasonaly, but that wouldn't pay very much. Do you know anything about the USCG MPIC Cert?

Thanks again,
Tom


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## zmedic (Jan 25, 2010)

Ski patrols tend to want the OEC certification (outdoor emergency care). Some may let you challenge the test with your EMT, but it tends to require a fair amount of additional training on things like running sleds, mountain ops etc. 

Here is a link to info about the MPIC, but you might want to spend some time on a google search for more info:

http://www.remotemedical.com/wilderness-medicine-training/Medical-Person-In-Charge


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jan 25, 2010)

Although I have expressed my opinions on Wlderness Certs before, here are some links to a subject that has been talked about before.

WEMT:  http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=15131
WEMT:  http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=12115
WEMT:  http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=10943
Ski Patrol:  http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=16235
SAR/Medical:  http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=12602

However, I will say again that in my opinion, WEMT is overrated.  The focus of any wilderness medical course is not to dramatically increase you scope or your medical knowledge, but to put you into a frame of mind that will allow you to better operate in an environment that differs greatly from what we are taught in Urban Medicine.  Add to that the fact that Wilderness Certs are not recongnized by most EMSA’s and you realize that your wilderness cert is useless; the information IS NOT useless, but that is knowledge that can be obtained at a much reduced cost elsewhere even if you do not get that pretty W to add to your eye chart or credentials.  Plus, there are very few paying gigs that you could ever hope to obtain with that W; i.e. SAR, Park Services, and other Private Outdoor “Guide-Type” Companies.  That said, SAR is 98% vollie in the U.S. (and most SAR teams out my way don’t care if you have a W, we want to see your county EMT card, since that is all that is recognized and your Wilderness Scope is useless) and the Park Service is unlikely to be overly impressed with the WEMT by itself (locally, for wilderness rescue/SAR in Yosemite they are more focused on Technical Rescue, Swiftwater, and Medical Certification that has a larger scope that EMT or WEMT).  So that leaves very few other paying avenues where a WEMT matters; unless you have a solid plan to become an instructor in wilderness stuff.

In the end, IMHO, the cost of WEMT is not justify in light of the above reasoning.  That said, if the class was offered for free to me, yes I would take it for the fun of it; but having worked with people with WEMT certification, I am unimpressed and believe that anything they are taught could have been obtained simply by joining a SAR Team and training with them; I love wilderness medicine and love discussions/trainings with team members on the "hot items" in Wilderness Medicine.  Sure, you get no W to add to the EMT, but when it comes to the members on my team, your ability and knowledge means more to me than what certifications you have.  But if you have the money to spend, go for it... I would if I was rich... but then again, if I was rich I would go get a license that trumps a Wilderness Upgrade.


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## TomTheDancingHobo (Jan 26, 2010)

zmedic said:


> Ski patrols tend to want the OEC certification (outdoor emergency care). Some may let you challenge the test with your EMT, but it tends to require a fair amount of additional training on things like running sleds, mountain ops etc.
> 
> Here is a link to info about the MPIC, but you might want to spend some time on a google search for more info:
> 
> http://www.remotemedical.com/wilderness-medicine-training/Medical-Person-In-Charge




Thanks!
I have seen that page. I feel like I understand pretty well what WEMT and MPIC are - I'm just trying to get a feel for their usefulness. I will definitely check out that OEC cert, too.


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## TomTheDancingHobo (Jan 26, 2010)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Although I have expressed my opinions on Wlderness Certs before, here are some links to a subject that has been talked about before.
> ...
> But if you have the money to spend, go for it... I would if I was rich... but then again, if I was rich I would go get a license that trumps a Wilderness Upgrade.



Thanks!
I had seen a few of the threads you mentioned, but others are new, and I'll definitely have to read them over.

So what I'm hearing from you guys, and what I'm reading elsewhere... is that WEMT is pretty eye-candy in most cases unless accompanied by other certifications. Kind of what I figured - if there were a free lunch everybody would be eating it, and so on.

So maybe I should post a new question.  I've got a pretty decent chunk of dough coming from an insurance company. Given that I dont want to spend a year or two in tech school, what's the best use I can put that dough to, in terms of a cert/course/bribe/whatever that will yield me a decent paying line of work (benefits not nesc) for a couple of years while I complete other studies part-time?


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## zmedic (Jan 26, 2010)

A better question might be want to do you want to do, and therefore how do you get there. Do you want to work on an ambulance? Work on a ship? Teach kayaking? Go into finance? Certs get you qualified to do something, but you have to tell us what your goal is.


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## TomTheDancingHobo (Jan 27, 2010)

_"A better question might be want to do you want to do, and therefore how do you get there. Do you want to work on an ambulance? Work on a ship? Teach kayaking? Go into finance? Certs get you qualified to do something, but you have to tell us what your goal is. "_

Indeed!
My goals are two-part. Part-one, the long-term part, the non-emt related part, is to continue school, with the idea of working in journalism.
Part-two is to find a trade or skill that I can study on the side, that will make me at least a semi-skilled worker and help garauntee something other than minimum-wage slavery while I finish school and search for a job. Given the world economy, it might have to last me a fair bit longer than I anticipate, so I'd like it to be something I basicaly enjoy. I don't mind investing a few thousand bucks and taking several months off of school to get said skill.

I am interested in the WEMT cert because it meets three of my four criteria: interact with people, and/or make things, and/or help people, and/or outdoors. 
I considered doing a firefighter residency here in washington, but it seems that basically all stations work on something besides a seven-day schedule, making it very hard to simultaneously interact with institutions that do, like school.
I have also considered a CDL (good pay, boring), welding (my second choice at this point), scuba training (not lots of work from it), timber cruising (takes 1 year+ to train), and a few other avenues.

It sounds like WEMT might not be it - I'm going to keep investigating, but it's mostly back the old drawing board from here.
I am interested in anybody's suggestions.


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## wildrivermedic (Jan 31, 2010)

I decided to go with the WEMT program (1) to get my training immersion-style the way I learn best and (2) to bump myself up the list of applicants for all the outdoorsy type jobs around here and (3) to provide care for myself and friends while doing the outdoorsy type things we do, like daily life two hours from definitive care. 

(1) Worked out well. It was pricey, but I thought the level of teaching was excellent (and I qualified for their scholarship program).

(2) Also seems to be working out. It's no way to get rich but it is a way to piece together a living in the place I want to live. Just after certification I was the lead medical person for a group of 17 teenagers in the backcountry... and I felt confident in that role. If I go through river guide school, the WEMT cert will get me jobs even as a newbie guide. And I'm about to start teaching wilderness first aid through a big-name university -- not bad for a hillbilly. 

So yes, you can do something with the cert, but you kinda have to hustle and piece together a lot of temporary seasonal jobs. The EMT-B work in my town is all volunteer. NOLS has a jobs email list you can get on as a graduate of their programs. In all honesty, most of the outdoor ed/adventure guide jobs will be satisfied with a (much cheaper) WFR cert.

(3) Hasn't really been tested yet, but I feel prepared. As a volunteer EMT I'm just going off the same protocols I could have learned in any course. But in those backcountry situations, I'm glad my training covered long term care, more A+P than usual (judging by posts here), decision making skills, and basic bedside manners. 
Again, most of that you could learn in a WFR course.


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## khorosho (Feb 6, 2010)

Tom,
Thanks for posting re: RMI and WEMT/MPIC. I'm new. Have been considering specifically RMI long time. After kicking it around and picking it apart forward and back long time, cannot find reason not to enroll, except the price tag, and I'm almost at peace with even that, considering they feed you/put you up for a month. Another possible is Landmark in NC, similar but sans MPIC skills. Something about getting extra knowledge "just in case." care to keep me posted on your WEMT progress? Keep on dancin', hobo.


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## NomadicMedic (Feb 6, 2010)

I'm curious why everyone seems so hyped up over the MPIC cert. For many, this is simply an "add on" for an EMT or Medic that is already working on a fishing or other commercial vessel. Having this certification does not enable you to perform any skills, it only says you have completed a class. For a newbie, finding medical direction to oversee these "advanced skills" (foley caths, anyone?) will be extremely difficult, as will be finding a job as the "Medical Person In Charge" on a vessel with no experience.

You may want to read this post. I think RMI has a decent program, but it is VERY expensive and seems to be packed with "add ons" that have little real world value. If you're interested in simply becoming an EMT-B, Community Colleges in the Seattle area offer the EMT-B program for around $600, compared to the WEMT class at RMI, which is $3,145. Yikes. 

Also, it's important to remember, in Washington, you can NOT function as an EMT unless you are affiliated with an EMS agency. That means getting a job as an EMT or volunteering with an EMS agency. 

Unless you have a real woody for making splints out of sticks in the woods, save your money and take a regular EMT class.

If you have questions, send me a PM. I'm happy to help.


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## khorosho (Feb 6, 2010)

Thank you. I get your points. Surely there must be SOMEplace it is useful besides oil rigs. Maybe the familiarity with those skills would make it a little easier in paramedic training later? I do have a good mind to go ahead and do it anyway and let this forum know what develops thereafter. Pardon me for keeping the topic going. I'm new. Patience please.


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## NomadicMedic (Feb 6, 2010)

khorosho said:


> Thank you. I get your points. Surely there must be SOMEplace it is useful besides oil rigs. Maybe the familiarity with those skills would make it a little easier in paramedic training later? I do have a good mind to go ahead and do it anyway and let this forum know what develops thereafter. Pardon me for keeping the topic going. I'm new. Patience.



Hey, it's your money.  The general gist of the MPIC is this: Commercial vessels must have an MPIC. It's usually a deck hand or a member of the Engineering Crew who is already a crew member. It's not a cert that will land you a job unless you already hold a rating. If you're dying to get on a ship, you may want to try this path: http://www.seattlecentral.edu/maritime/

I know at least 6 people who have attended the RMI WEMT program. All, with the exception of one have been unable to obtain jobs and consequently have been unable to obtain certification as a Washington State EMT.

I hear the RMI program is a lot of fun, and the food is great. It should be for 3 grand.  No matter where you go, you'll get the EMT-B curriculum. 

Just go into this with your eyes open.


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## mycrofft (Feb 7, 2010)

*It's your money.*

Generically work in the mts or other attractive areas is seasonal, ill-paid when considerd as a career, and hiring is largely from one's personal network rather than a cattle call (unless your place is the rat's patoot to work at and no one wants to come back).

Look into getting into a company or agency which will find your jobs for you and pay you directly, at least at first, rather than freelancing. THEN meet their educational requirements.


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## Luno (Feb 8, 2010)

I don't know much about the MPIC, but I would say that the WEMTs that we've hired have worked out much better then the regular EMTs.  It could very likely be the fact the they went for the WEMT rather then your stock and standard EMT, and have an interest in wilderness med.  Personally, from the WEMTs that we have, I think that they are more inclined to think outside of the box, which makes them much more valuable than most EMTs that cannot.  As far as OEC goes, if I were you, (and I was like you many years ago...) I'd take at least the EMT, and just challenge an OEC course if it were mandated for a Ski Patrol job.  OEC is a great curriculum for the lay responder, however, I would question how applicable it is to a competant WEMT.  The scope of practice is definitely lower.  It also is a hit or miss for state certification.  That all being said, I've never taken the W course, but have several employees who have, and they are highly motivated, hard working, thinkers who are comfortable outside of the box.  If money is truely not an issue, why wouldn't you get further education?


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## zmedic (Feb 9, 2010)

I just remembered that there are module upgrades as well. So you could do the EMT at the local community college and then do like a 10 day upgrade that gets you the WEMT. It would take a lot longer than just doing the month long WEMT, but would probably be cheaper because you are paying for less time at NOLS/SOLO etc.


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 9, 2010)

Luno said:


> I don't know much about the MPIC, but I would say that the WEMTs that we've hired have worked out much better then the regular EMTs.  It could very likely be the fact the they went for the WEMT rather then your stock and standard EMT, and have an interest in wilderness med.  Personally, from the WEMTs that we have, I think that they are more inclined to think outside of the box, which makes them much more valuable than most EMTs that cannot.  As far as OEC goes, if I were you, (and I was like you many years ago...) I'd take at least the EMT, and just challenge an OEC course if it were mandated for a Ski Patrol job.  OEC is a great curriculum for the lay responder, however, I would question how applicable it is to a competant WEMT.  The scope of practice is definitely lower.  It also is a hit or miss for state certification.  That all being said, I've never taken the W course, but have several employees who have, and they are highly motivated, hard working, thinkers who are comfortable outside of the box.  If money is truely not an issue, why wouldn't you get further education?



He wants a stepping stone/meal ticket while he get's his "education"

If you are interested in medicine, or emergency medicine, continue down this path bro, but if you are just looking for an easy mindless job that you don't have to try at, go drive a bus or something.  EMS is not for dabblers   (unless you are just some sort of medical prodigy)


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## khorosho (Feb 10, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> He wants a stepping stone/meal ticket while he get's his "education"
> 
> If you are interested in medicine, or emergency medicine, continue down this path bro, but if you are just looking for an easy mindless job that you don't have to try at, go drive a bus or something.  EMS is not for dabblers   (unless you are just some sort of medical prodigy)



Neither is communicating like a human being and a gentleman for dabblers, tough guy, so get over yourself.


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## Luno (Feb 10, 2010)

Seriously? Not for dabblers?  C'mon, my barber needs more of an education... And he can't sustain life, only my social life... It is entirely adequate for dabblers, there is not a "holy calling" or whatever else some people seem to believe about this field.  I only took an EMT class to get a free ski pass... That doesn't mean that you don't do everything that you take on with 110% commitment, but this isn't rocket surgery.  Maybe when we make an EMT-B a 2 year degree, and an EMT-P a 4 year degree, similiar to LPN/RNs... But right now?  It's kinda like getting a certificate for welding...


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 10, 2010)

khorosho said:


> Neither is communicating like a human being and a gentleman for dabblers, tough guy, so get over yourself.





Sorry, really didn't even notice you were in this conversation, my comment was about the OP.

I was specifically responding to these items



TomTheDancingHobo said:


> [...]
> 
> A little background - I'm 24, fit, in college part-time, and *trying to find a certification of some sort that will help me get through the next 2-5 years while I 'get my career on.'*
> 
> ...


*

got your private message, didn't understand that either.  So calm down buddy, my "inhuman" words are not even pointed in your direction.*


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 10, 2010)

The only reason my original comment about EMS not being for dabblers is because the OP, in his original statement, (or let me say I _inferred_ from his OP) left me with a feeling that he is not really interested in EMS as a profession in and of itself, but rather, that he is looking for something he can do as something easy on the side. 

Do you think that EMS is in any aspect, easy, or fair game for people who don't see it for what it is... EMERGENCY CARE...?



Luno said:


> Seriously? Not for dabblers?  C'mon, my barber needs more of an education... And he can't sustain life, only my social life... It is entirely adequate for dabblers, there is not a "holy calling" or whatever else some people seem to believe about this field.  I only took an EMT class to get a free ski pass... That doesn't mean that you don't do everything that you take on with 110% commitment, but this isn't rocket surgery.  Maybe when we make an EMT-B a 2 year degree, and an EMT-P a 4 year degree, similiar to LPN/RNs... But right now?  It's kinda like getting a certificate for welding...



So you think that someone who gets 120 hours of education and admits that they have no interest in or time to continue education or certification should be encouraged to join this industry?

You think we should welcome with warm arms providers who may not have it in their heart to do the job 100%... Do you think that patients might receive a lesser standard of care, if they are treated by providers who are only interested in this as a part-time-temporary gig?

(*edited to add this comment*) And specifically to address your welding comment... If you feel the emt-b certificate is just a blow-off, do you want to perpetuate that perspective by encouraging the disinterested to join the ranks of new emt-b certs?


my final thought, if you just wanted a free ski pass, why do you frequent the forum... you must admit you do have some interest in the field of EMS...


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## khorosho (Feb 11, 2010)

*My fault*

*Notice to all and sundry*: just to let you know I have been duly warned and accept it with full humility. I responded harshly to a reply to an entirely different posting. My only intention was to protest what I felt, erroneously, to be unfair derision against prospective entrants into the profession who have no choice but to start _somewhere_. I hope this does not scratch me from your Christmas lists. For what it's worth, I _have_ been known, on occasion, to play well with others. :blush:


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## AVPU (Feb 21, 2010)

Sorry to reply late....I am new here and just saw this thread. There have been several mentions of Remote Medical Int'l's WEMT and MPIC. For the record, they are very high quality. I took a course this summer from them. Great instructors, fun, and lots of hands-on. Good luck!


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## Luno (Feb 22, 2010)

*Hmmmm....*

I usually spend some time contemplating my response before firing back, but I've waited long enough...



8jimi8 said:


> The only reason my original comment about EMS not being for dabblers is because the OP, in his original statement, (or let me say I _inferred_ from his OP) left me with a feeling that he is not really interested in EMS as a profession in and of itself, but rather, that he is looking for something he can do as something easy on the side.


I'll accept that you inferred...


8jimi8 said:


> Do you think that EMS is in any aspect, easy, or fair game for people who don't see it for what it is... EMERGENCY CARE...?


Absolutely, do think it's rocket surgery?    The EMT-B job is so easy that it can be taught and executed using simple commands, and even simpler techniques... It's a certificate that can be gained with minimal hands on time, a high school diploma and/or GED, and a short class. (coincidently, I don't think this is right, but rather my opinion of the current state of affairs)


8jimi8 said:


> So you think that someone who gets 120 hours of education and admits that they have no interest in or time to continue education or certification should be encouraged to join this industry?


I think that everyone should have a starting place.  I also have also seen some of my best EMTs fall into the field by accident, i.e. extra time, need a job, etc... Do you believe that they should have a burning desire to be Johnny and Roy?


8jimi8 said:


> You think we should welcome with warm arms providers who may not have it in their heart to do the job 100%... Do you think that patients might receive a lesser standard of care, if they are treated by providers who are only interested in this as a part-time-temporary gig?


To extend your logic, how do you feel about volunteers... (they are only interested in it as a part time gig... They do it to help, but don't make a profession out of it...) Do you feel they might provide substandard care?  I don't think that any profession should welcome a prospective employee who does not commit to perform their duties to the best of their abilities, including serving my fries at McDonalds... I however do see the possibilities of someone who wishes to work at this as a job until they can achieve their personal goals.  


8jimi8 said:


> (*edited to add this comment*) And specifically to address your welding comment... If you feel the emt-b certificate is just a blow-off, do you want to perpetuate that perspective by encouraging the disinterested to join the ranks of new emt-b certs?


Yes, I think that everyone should get first aid certified...  And yes, the EMT-B is a blowoff.  I fail to see the logic in teaching someone a series of motions, without the knowledge to back up what they are doing.  I get fresh EMTs continuously, who can backboard someone, but can't tell me why they are doing it.  They can splint, but can't tell me the reasons why you would, or would not splint a fracture.  Their A&P is pathetic, and they lack a competant ability to think through the mechanics of trauma on a body, much less the ability to explain to me why they are doing what they are doing.  That is an educational FAILURE.  That's just injured, lack of understanding of illness is even worse... I believe in further education for our profession, and raising the standards.  However, raising standards will weed out the profession, and I'd rather have as big of a pool of applicants and potential interest as possible when that time comes.  


8jimi8 said:


> my final thought, if you just wanted a free ski pass, why do you frequent the forum... you must admit you do have some interest in the field of EMS...


My final comment... I started because I wanted a free ski pass, what I didn't mention is that I have spent several years in various EMS specialties, and also am an EMS Instructor, Field Trainer, and currently EMS management...


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## Dreadnought (Feb 26, 2010)

*Figure this is as good a spot as any*

I'm new here, but my question is somewhat related to this topic, so on the offchance that my creation of a new thread would be more cumbersome than posting in here, I'm opting for the latter.

I'm a low ranking infantryman in a US special operations unit, but was recently afforded the opportunity to attend a 4 week EMT-B course which culminated in the taking of the NREMT.  Given the level of difference between my job and the civilian EMT-B and the expedited nature of the course, it was a fun challenge and very few of us in the course managed to pass the national test.  This was about 5-6 months ago.

However, considering how I'm not a combat medic by trade and cannot actively practice my EMT-B certification (ie I can't actually be an EMT), I realize that I'm constantly forgetting material and minutaea, if you will, that I learned during the course.  Now with my current job that doesn't really affect me, as I know what I need to know to able to handle combat casualty situations (TCCC and all that goodness, along with the basic first responder training my unit has a standard and cross training with special operations medics).  I know that I can perform to that level, but I still want to be able to maintain all the knowledge and working knowledge that a practicing EMT-B in the civilian world would maintain.

At the moment I'm trying to do this by reading and rereading my prehospital emergency care books, quizzing myself with quiz books and quiz programs, and looking for more material to spark more motivation.  Taking bullet notes on books is only so interesting for so long.

Does anyone know any more engaging ways that I can stay up to date with this information and practice my "skills" so to speak?  I train up with our medics as often as I can and jump at the opportunity for more training opportunities (hopefully looking at going to the "shoot goats and fix them" school), but I want to do more on my own.

I'm interested in the WEMT certification as it's more practical for my job, really, than the civilian EMT-B standards.

Does anyone recommend any certain books for WEMT?

Are there any courses in the Tacoma/Seattle, Washington area?  I ask because maybe I can request permission to attend one and get the extra certification, explaining the practicality of it... I highly doubt it, but I'm willing to try.

Any help would be appreciated, and I apologize for the long-windedness


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 26, 2010)

The only way not to lose these skills is to practice them.  As a nursing student we had two years of assessing and treating patients to prepare to work in the field.

ABCs
eliminate life threats
Head to Toe assessment
ABC's
treat and repeat

i mean... what skills do you feel like you are forgetting?  Backboarding and collaring ... you are correct, not quite applicable to your line of duty.

Sounds like you are doing what you need to be doing to keep your information sharp.

Sorry, i don't have a suggestion for good wilderness books EXCEPT for a book called
Medicine for Mountaineering  Pretty interesting read, but I'm sure you won't hump that book out with you, but if you are looking for another book to read on your off time, its pretty cool.


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## wildrivermedic (Mar 8, 2010)

*books for WEMT*

Wilderness Medicine, 5th Edition by Paul S. Auerbach is by far the most interesting and advanced book I've found... it's huge, not a field guide!

The texts used for the WMI WEMT class are pretty basic. NOLS Wilderness Medicine by Tod Schimelpfenig, and Wilderness First Responder: A Text for the Recognition, Treatment, and Prevention of Wilderness Emergencies by Buck Tilton.

Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines for Wilderness Emergency Care by Wilderness Medical Society and William W. Forgey M.D. is good for looking up the accepted practices and protocols, especially if you're setting up medical care for a group in the backcountry. 

Would love to hear about others I am missing...


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## medic8613 (Mar 9, 2010)

*Wilderness EMT*

The WEMT training is really good. My initial EMT-B training was a course that combined EMT-Basic and WEMT in one month-long course. Having the WEMT opens a lot of doors in rural areas, and with outdoor organizations like NOLS, Outward Bound, and SOLO. It also shows potential employers in the urban arena that you have gone above expectations, and received extra training. There are also many non-career jobs that WEMT qualifies you for. For example, many smaller summer camps do not have a nurse or physician on staff, and rely on a camp "medic" to take care of the camper's and staff's daily and emergency medical needs.

I firmly believe that without my wilderness training, I would not be nearly as good a medic as I am today. What is taught in WEMT is very useful in the urban world as well, particularly in worst case scenarios like natural and man-made disasters. WEMT focuses on improvised equipment and long term patient care, where as urban EMS relies on standard equipment and short term patient contact. However, when s*** goes sideways, you don't always have the luxury of purpose built equipment and short 10 minute transport times. WFR or WEMT is a _must_ for anyone who spends a lot of time in the middle of nowhere. After working with many EMTs and Paramedics, I feel that those with WEMT training were generally more skilled and competent than those without.

The first thing you need to know is, there are two ways of getting WEMT. Option A is taking a standard "street" EMT-B course, and then taking a WEMT upgrade course. Option B is to take an EMT-B+WEMT course, and get it all done at the same time. If you have taken courses like standard first aid, First Responder, or Wilderness First Responder (WFR), and felt comfortable and had few problems with those courses, then go ahead and do it all at once. If you don't have any first aid or medical education, it may be better to go with option A. There is a lot of material in both EMT-B and WEMT, and I'v seen people become overwhelmed when they try to do both. The pre-requisite for WEMT is EMT-B, high school diploma or GED, and being 18+. Even if you don't end up making a career out of it, the training will serve you well as you explore the wilderness.

For reading, take a look at Wilderness Medicine, published by NOLS. Also the SOLO Wilderness First Responder textbook is very good. These are my go to WEMS reference books. Even though the SOLO book is WFR, the WEMT portion of of the training is essentially WFR with a handful of differences.

As far as additional training goes, that really depends on where you work. If you want to do offshore work, you will probably need to be a Paramedic, and get additional training specific to that environment. For urban EMS work, standard training not included in EMT or WEMT often includes Emergency Vehicle Operations Course (EVOC), National Incident Management System (NIMS), Incident Command System (ICS), hazardous materials training, and/or Basic Trauma Life Support (BTLS). Many agencies will provide this training in house, while others will be more than happy to tell you where to get it. Some of it, like NIMS and ICS, is available online from the Department of Homeland Security.


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## AVPU (Mar 10, 2010)

Well said, medic. I esp second the advice about taking an EMT and then bridging to a WEMT. I took them both as one unit without any medical background and was very overwhelmed.


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## AVPU (Mar 10, 2010)

GranolaEMT said:


> Wilderness Medicine, 5th Edition by Paul S. Auerbach is by far the most interesting and advanced book I've found... it's huge, not a field guide!
> 
> The texts used for the WMI WEMT class are pretty basic. NOLS Wilderness Medicine by Tod Schimelpfenig, and Wilderness First Responder: A Text for the Recognition, Treatment, and Prevention of Wilderness Emergencies by Buck Tilton.
> 
> ...



I have the Auerbach guide. It's good...have referred to it more than once.

More of an interesting, entertaining read is Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales. A little off-topic, but I think it really sets the mood for how to think and respond to an emergency in the backcountry. True stories of people caught in pretty dire situations that come out ok.


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## EMSLaw (Mar 10, 2010)

AVPU said:


> I have the Auerbach guide. It's good...have referred to it more than once.
> 
> More of an interesting, entertaining read is Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales. A little off-topic, but I think it really sets the mood for how to think and respond to an emergency in the backcountry. True stories of people caught in pretty dire situations that come out ok.



Thanks for the resources, all.  I've been toying with the idea of going for the FAWM one of these days, since the subject matter really interests me.  

And everyone knows, if your friend has hypothermia, you cut open the wampa and stuff him inside for warmth.


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## zmedic (Mar 10, 2010)

I thought that was a Tauntaun? From Empire Strikes Back.


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## EMSLaw (Mar 10, 2010)

zmedic said:


> I thought that was a Tauntaun? From Empire Strikes Back.



You're right!  The wampa beast was the thing that tried to eat him, IIRC.  My bad, I fail on three hours sleep.

I saw the sleeping bag at thinkgeek, too.  It even has a lightsaber zipper.


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