# Are you really carrying 400lb people downs flights of stairs?



## Future 911medic (Nov 13, 2013)

Hey all,

I'm a new EMT with no employer yet.  I'm still uncertain of my career path.

Everyone says, "EMS is for the young people, you don't see any older people doing that job"

Are you really doing a lot of heavy lifting? Such as a 400lb patient down the stairs, etc?

I would say I'm physically fit and not that old at 30, but I do have slight lower back pain already and I don't want to make it terribly worse...  I'ts very minor though, and isn't felt all the time. 

Any information regarding the matter will be appreciated.  Mainly from experienced EMS providers that can explain a typical week of work with regards to stress on the back etc.

Thanks =)


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## NBFFD2433 (Nov 13, 2013)

Future 911medic said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm a new EMT with no employer yet.  I'm still uncertain of my career path.
> 
> ...


You have to keep in mind that it is possible but fairly unlikely that you will be doing it every day. That is unless you work in Bariatrics. It will happen though.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 13, 2013)

NBFFD2433 said:


> You have to keep in mind that it is possible but fairly unlikely that you will be doing it every day. That is unless you work in Bariatrics. It will happen though.



This. There are some days/weeks where it doesn't happen and then there are other times where it happens twice in a day.


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## Kevinf (Nov 13, 2013)

Prepare for a lot more of it if you sign on with a transport company.  300lb patient's are a respite from the really big ones... every day. Biggest patient I ever had as a regular was a 550lb'er, no powered stretcher or winches. Had to lift and load 'em by hand <_<


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## Future 911medic (Nov 13, 2013)

Hey Desert EMT66, Thanks for the PM, it wont let me PM you back because I don't have enough posts???

Anyway, my response is, yes! Ha ha! I knew it... I'll have to submit that to the DMV and have them fix it.  

Thanks


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## Future 911medic (Nov 13, 2013)

Wow, 550Lb with no tools! Crazy.  Did you guys have more than the 2 of you lifting?


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 13, 2013)

Future 911medic said:


> Wow, 550Lb with no tools! Crazy.  Did you guys have more than the 2 of you lifting?



We have a device called a Mega Mover. It's like a reinforced tarp with a lot of handles on it. Place the patient on it and each person grabs a handle or two. 

For my area we always respond with the fire department so we will have at least 5 people on scene and can always call for more people.


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## 46Young (Nov 13, 2013)

My days of playing hero and taking on a 400lb pt on a second floor or higher, with just me and my partner are over. I can't justify the risk. The only options I'm willing to entertain is the mega mover, putting them in a Stokes basket and sliding them down the stairs, or siting them on the stairs, and having them shuffle down one step at a time until they get to the bottom. I've done each of these things numerous times. The patient's embarrassment should be considered, but should be secondary to your own welfare.

Be careful with inter-facility, the dispatchers can and will deny requests for lift assists. It's not worth it to risk your health to move them without another 2-4 people to help. It's simple unrealistic. Insist on the life assist, or request the local fire department to help. If the company fires you over this, you can see how little they value your welfare, so you're better off in that regard.

I'm still unbroken after 11 years in EMS - I intend to stay that way, and so should you. Good luck!


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## Kevinf (Nov 13, 2013)

Future 911medic said:


> Wow, 550Lb with no tools! Crazy.  Did you guys have more than the 2 of you lifting?



Transfer from bed/geri-chair to stretcher was done x4 people. The stretcher lift was between two and four people (our bary stretcher has pull out handles on the sides), and loading was typically one person.


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## Ewok Jerky (Nov 13, 2013)

You will be carrying some very large peeps around in EMS.  You will have tools available to you (IE firemen).  DO NOT hesitate to request a lift assist.  If denied  by dispatch, let them know you are delayed on scene and call your supe.  Remember from EMT class rule #1 is to look out for #1.  Getting injured will cost your company money and will cost you a career.  Not worth it.  Most companies are aware of the costs of back injuries and should be accommodation.


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## Mariemt (Nov 13, 2013)

Nope, any lifting with stairs, we call firemen. It is safer for our patient and us to have more hands to carry


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## CriticalCareIFT (Nov 14, 2013)

Welcome to exiting world of EMS where lifting and moving is part of your everyday job. I will state it's not the 400lb patients you need to worry about, as everyone on scene will be extra vigilant, its the lighter patients that will get you by not using proper form, or saying things like just hurry it up, let's get this done quick. 

Lifting, carrying equipment, assisting ALS, driving is bread and butter of being an EMT.


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## Chris07 (Nov 14, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> I will state it's not the 400lb patients you need to worry about, as everyone on scene will be extra vigilant, its the lighter patients that will get you by not using proper form, or saying things like just hurry it up, let's get this done quick.



+1. It's not the occasional 400 pounder that gets you...its the "normal" or "lightweight" ones that you lift several times a day that typically gets you.


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## SandpitMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

Look around... Americans (in general) are not getting smaller. I'll echo the others when I say sometimes you will do it once a month, sometimes twice a day. You may have some tools or other resources to help, and other times left to your own devices and common sense to guide you. Over time it will become more common place as we get fatter.  

There are plenty of "older" folks in EMS. Ask them about their backs if you dare. If that is a gross concern then perhaps you should evaluate what you're willing to risk to work in this industry. I'm 26 and my back hurts, not necessarily due to biggins, but just from the constant lifting as is along with bouncing around in those ambulances down the road all day. Proper technique and strengthening back workouts will help you endure it.

I wish you well and hope that you don't have to move many biggins, but we've all been there. Good luck friend.


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## johnrsemt (Nov 18, 2013)

carrying them down the stairs isn't bad,  it is carrying them back up when they go home from the hospital.    Then you usually can NOT get fire fighters for lift assist


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## MedicPam (Nov 25, 2013)

There are always ways to move the heavier patients...stairchairs, mega movers, lift assists utilizing anyone necessary if the situation calls for it. But remember that the safety of you and your crew (including FF, LE, or facility staff on IFTs) is imperative.

Learn and use proper lifting techniques and practice these WITH EVERY MOVE.  EMS personnel tend to be hypervigilant when it comes to our upsized patients...but not utilizing these techniques on a "normal" sized patient or a routine transfer from bed to stretcher (or vice versa) has been the cause of most serious and career-ending back injuries. 

The biggest problem I've seen in my career is impatience to move a patient. SLOW DOWN...evaluate the positioning, make adjustments as needed, verbally agree on a plan and follow through. And for goodness sakes...BEND those knees.


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## Future 911medic (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the info.  That makes much more sense now =)


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## jimmylesaint (Nov 26, 2013)

*Treat your own Back*

Sore backs are debilitating and most are undiagnosable even with MRI- the obvious disc herniations and osteophytes are at least seeable . I would recommend you guys get hold of the book by Robin McKenzie a New Zealand Physio which shows you how to fix your own back- providing there is not a major issue. The title is "Treat your own Back" 
Of course try watch your posture/sitting in an ambulance and your lifting technique. I could go into the strengthening exercises but probably not the forum for it and i will be forum bashed Those with long term mechanical back pain without an actual diagnosis should try antibiotics- the acne bacteria is found to "eat" away at the back/vertebrae causing it to become weaker and the waste causing pain from acidity. 
For me 5g of vitamin C 3 times a day gets rid of my pain.
Jimmy


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## DrParasite (Nov 28, 2013)

Anything more than 350 lbs gets a request for Rescue, FD, or an additional crew to assist.  

Depending on who I'm with, that might get lowered to 300lb.  Also depends on how far we are carrying them, as well as using what carrying device.

you can get hurt with lighter people.  anytime they reach out for something while on the stairs.  anytime they throw you off balance.  and you can even get hurt by attempting to compensate for their actions (you end up hurt, they end up fine).

In their field, you will only last as long as your back will


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## Glucatron (Dec 15, 2013)

beano said:


> You will be carrying some very large peeps around in EMS.  You will have tools available to you (IE firemen).  DO NOT hesitate to request a lift assist.  If denied  by dispatch, let them know you are delayed on scene and call your supe.  Remember from EMT class rule #1 is to look out for #1.  Getting injured will cost your company money and will cost you a career.  Not worth it.  Most companies are aware of the costs of back injuries and should be accommodation.



Did you just call firemen tools? ROFL


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## DrBeat (Dec 17, 2013)

I had to deal with some heavy patients but we always managed to walk down the stairs (out of breath).. if patients are too heavy for the strecher or the chair, we can either rely on our strenght or ask the dispatch to send an FD squad.


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