# This Scenario Caught Me Off Guard



## Sasha (Sep 1, 2008)

This is a scenario posed in class. We all FAILED.

You are responding to a 22 y/o female complaining of difficulty breathing. You arrive on scene, patient is sitting in a chair in the middle of the room, with a black box under the chair, holding her throat and staring at you. 

We all held up our hands in the BSI seemingly universal sign (you know, you hold up gloved hands, pronate them.). We all say scene safe, insturctor says Go ahead, we walk up to the patient, get down on her level, ask her what the problem is, and then she spreads her legs so you can get a better look at the black box. The black box has a note on it that simply says *BOOM*

We all got exploded!  

It really drove home the fact that saying scene safe does not make the scene safe and we have to use our eyes!


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## KEVD18 (Sep 1, 2008)

can i be the first to say this is ridiculous? 

he could just as easily have said the bomb was in the closet.

what, are we supposed to drop our gear and run for the truck every time we see an unidentifiable object in a patients house?

RIDICULOUS!


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## reaper (Sep 1, 2008)

If he graded you on this, it is ridiculous. As a general scenario, I can see where it teaches awareness of one's surroundings.

I got as far as reading black box under chair. Right away, I thought Bomb! This can help students learn to look at the whole picture!


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## Sasha (Sep 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> If he graded you on this, it is ridiculous. As a general scenario, I can see where it teaches awareness of one's surroundings.
> 
> I got as far as reading black box under chair. Right away, I thought Bomb! This can help students learn to look at the whole picture!



Exactly! We arent formely graded on scenarios, we run a variety of very odd ones, my instructor is trying to get us to be paramedics, not just spew forth what we have read from the book. He is a very brilliant paramedic 

Although he started to get tired of my _Scene Safe? BSI. No bombs?_


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## Sasha (Sep 1, 2008)

By the way, KEVD, I love your signature!


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## jrm818 (Sep 1, 2008)

If i had a nickel for every time a 22 y/o spread her legs and everything went BOOM!.........:blush: oops sorry...wrong forum


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## mycrofft (Sep 1, 2008)

*OK try these.*

The pt is sitting on a chair under which is a paper bag. You withdraw a block and call the bomb squad. The pt dies sitting over the bag with her meds and inhalers her doctor told her to bring.

Or...

You open the door, which imperceptibly bumps a home made tilt switch, closing the circuit between the battery to the nichrome wire on the cherry bomb attached to the gallon glass jug of gasoline in the corner your door opened towards.

If the first happens in Bagdahd, oops sorry. If it hapens in Passaic New Jersey, how stupid can you be, given there are no other things to look out for? And if the second happens, you never had a chance, you were dead when you parked the ambulance. 

Be careful, but don't be paranoid. Scene safety starts at dispatch and before arrival on scene; when your time is up, in'sh Allah; and you are far more likely to die in an accident responding than to buy it trying to save someone.

(The one I used to use...I would play a "man down" in a garage lying on top of an electric drill. They would take my upper arm to turn me over, and I'd GRAB their ankle or other arm and yell "GOTCHA!" (Electrocution victim, still  energized).


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## stephenrb81 (Sep 1, 2008)

"BSI...Is My Scene Safe?"

"Yes"



When "playing" out a scenario, that is suppose to assure you the scene is safe.  What are you suppose to do?  "I have been instructed that my scene is safe, but I believe you may be lying to me so I am going to leave the scene and patient after I have already initiated care and question your authority as my test-giver"

Then stand there in the room staring at those administering the test with crickets chirping?


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## KEVD18 (Sep 1, 2008)

Sasha said:


> By the way, KEVD, I love your signature!



thanks hun. i was trying to prove a small point without instigating a confrontation.


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## BossyCow (Sep 2, 2008)

I had a call for a respiratory distress where the pt carried into the rig her little ziplock baggie full of meds. Unknown to us at the time, but knownst to the RN in the ER who got stuck... she had been putting her used insulin syringes into the bag for several days. Charge nurse tried to blame us for it, but I told her, nope.. never touched the bag and besides, we were always taught to always pick up those with the two fingers at the top of the bag instead of grabbing the middle with a full hand. 

Scene safe is never scene safe until everyone goes home.


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## AnthonyM83 (Sep 8, 2008)

I guess if the scenario drove home the point, then it served its purpose...but too ridiculous for my tastes...but it lets you know sometimes there's nothing you can reasonably do to know the scene is safe for sure.

I'm sure half the readers suspected a bomb as soon as they read the scenario...but in reality there's not much you can do...especially if your instructor deems the scene safe. Risk of the job...but always be wary.


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## Sasha (Sep 8, 2008)

Yup. Of course you would think bomb as soon as you HEAR black box, but we are so used to 

_Scene safe? BSI?_
_It is, you are, proceed._

that we dont even look around to see the black box, I in all honesty didnt even notice it until she opened her legs. Then it was a big duuuurrr moment.

But I got it covered! I now say:
_Scene Safe. BSI. No Bombs?_

Next thing you know he will add a sniper! <_<


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## beachemt (Sep 24, 2008)

We had a scenario like that but the instructor only gave it to us because we were diong great and he wanted to knock my partner and i down a notch because we were excelling. He told us we go to the mall for a call and see a girl sitting near a trashcan with a little bit of smoke coming out of it. I asked BSI scene safe? to which he said yes and then as soon as we walked up to start assessing he says we died from chlorine gas exposure. even though the pt was apparently still alive we died immeadiately and i askednand he confirmed the scene was safe...... stupid know it alls.


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## MRE (Sep 26, 2008)

While teaching lifeguarding, myself and another instructor did a scenario where a guard student arrives at a pool and finds people floating on the water and people laying motionless in odd positions around the edge of the pool, yes we did actually act it out.  It was an electrocution of the entire pool area, water in the pool/on the deck was the conductor.

This was also to teach about scene safety.


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## EMT-P633 (Sep 26, 2008)

jrm818 said:


> If i had a nickel for every time a 22 y/o spread her legs and everything went BOOM!.........:blush: oops sorry...wrong forum



*LMAO!*I love it!


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 27, 2008)

Nonsense scenario! Should had used a better and more real life instead of wasting time. I have been on attached bomb (Bank President held hostage) and guess what? It was not a black box nor called one. I guess bomb makers have different color styles. So the case, "black box"? Never heard of it and I have been exposed to tactical EMS and LE for nearly 30 years. Believe one needs to stop watching so many Die Hard movies.

More realistic would be gun within reach of granny or a domestic situation occurring a call. These calls that actually have killed working medics. The ones that start out as a medical and turns out to be something different. Treatment of inmates within a jail, and another  inmate grabs the oxygen cylinder and starts striking people. Gang bangers wanting to make sure their target was really dead. These calls happen everyday, read the EMS news. 

I highly believe in scenario training and definitely making sure one is aware of scene safety, but let's place in perspective. 

R/r 911


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## Sasha (Sep 27, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Nonsense scenario! Should had used a better and more real life instead of wasting time. I have been on attached bomb (Bank President held hostage) and guess what? It was not a black box nor called one. I guess bomb makers have different color styles. So the case, "black box"? Never heard of it and I have been exposed to tactical EMS and LE for nearly 30 years. Believe one needs to stop watching so many Die Hard movies.
> 
> More realistic would be gun within reach of granny or a domestic situation occurring a call. These calls that actually have killed working medics. The ones that start out as a medical and turns out to be something different. Treatment of inmates within a jail, and another  inmate grabs the oxygen cylinder and starts striking people. Gang bangers wanting to make sure their target was really dead. These calls happen everyday, read the EMS news.
> 
> ...



This scenario was really to just drive home the fact that the words Scene Safe does not automatically make the scene safe and you have to use your eyes and ears. You gotta see that there was something suspicious under our patients chair, not just walk in, singsong Scene Safe! BSI! with out giving a second thought to it and going on to ask about scene size up. Scene Safe does not work in real life. It was quick, we got all six of us through it in less than 10 minutes and could move on to real scenarios.

I have actually seen a brand new EMT step out of the truck, hold up his hands and mutter the whole scene safe, BSI spiel.


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 27, 2008)

Sasha said:


> I have actually seen a brand new EMT step out of the truck, hold up his hands and mutter the whole scene safe, BSI spiel.



I would had sent him home. There are plenty more to choose from with some gray matter. 

R/r 911


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## TheAfterAffect (Sep 27, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I would had sent him home. There are plenty more to choose from with some gray matter.
> 
> R/r 911



Stop acting like a hard ***, People are new and they sometimes do lil things like that just because they think its how real EMS works. 

We all know the stuff they teach us in class is never how it is in real EMS, But we know that NOW not when we were in the class or just got out.


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## Sasha (Sep 28, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I would had sent him home. There are plenty more to choose from with some gray matter.
> 
> R/r 911



Well thankfully his LT has a little more patience and understanding for new people than you.


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## Melanie77 (Nov 12, 2008)

thats really stupid


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## ride2k (Nov 23, 2008)

We did a scenario in class to emphasize scene saftey one evening. Our instructor had us all go outside without us knowing what was going on. 
We all stood outside, confused as all hell. The she had us form a line in front of the entrance. One by one she let us in. 
We had no instruction on what to do, nor that it was a scenario. We just went in. I was third in line and I walked in and looked around me. I noticed first that one of the instructors who was helping was inside and I asked, "is the scene safe?". He said, "I don't know" and I kept walking. I saw that in the closet there was a person who was pretending to be injured, and next to him was a bunch of power tools and frayed wires. The scene was not safe I mentally noted and then I said that and was let on into the room where the first two who went in were waiting. 
Of our class, two people failed this excersize because they were too eager to go in. 
It was a simple thing, but it is important and our class didn't forget, especially the ones who failed. 
If your hurt or dead, you cannot help anyone. End of story.


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