# Generational Gaps



## VentMonkey (Mar 5, 2020)

I’ve been thinking about this a bit lately. I know I’ve certainly hit that point in my career where I can see the obvious gaps in society’s culture shifts, what’s right, wrong, or indifferent, et

While like any job there are several generations worth of people in the workforce, I think our field is unique in that you may be “stuck” with someone old enough to be your parents/ young enough to be your child. Sometimes it works out no problem, other times not so much.

My personal opinion is that many things now seem to be blown out of proportion on a whole new scale, thanks in large part to the advent of SM.

We seem convinced other’s opinions are where we need to be for validation in our lives. When did this happen? Was it truly the SM era? I’m sure it goes deeper.

I’d love to hear your guys’ thoughts—all sides. So let’s have a convo.

FWIW, this is from a guy trying to raise his kids right in the midst of all of this. And yes, I realize I am not alone in that. Thanks all.


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## Qulevrius (Mar 5, 2020)

_“Kids are on YouTube, learning how to be cool.” (Toby Keith, American Ride)_

People had self validation issues in the past as well, but they had a better social engagement with their peers. Then SM rolled in. Now if you’re socially awkward, it’s not a big deal online because what used to be “weird”, is now called “special”. But once the “special” person steps out of their comfort zone, _suddenly_ it’s a shock to their system. 

Now, I wouldn’t blame the “special” person as much as I’d blame whoever raised them, but at the same time there’s a whole generation of maladjusted Americans. There are sound exceptions of course, but as with any exception these are far and between.

I would also like to point an accusing finger towards the education system for turning schools of every kind, into goddamn flower beds where they grow socially inept vegetables. And that has a LOT to do with politics, but that’s a sh*tpot I’m not willing to stir here.


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## Peak (Mar 5, 2020)

Kids have never changed, it's the parenting that has.

Parents are the ones who shove an iPad into the hands of their crying toddler. 

Parents raise their children and enculture them to the social norms that they will see, engage in play with, and ultimately develop as their own behaviors. 

Parents are the ones arguing with teachers and school administrators that their child cannot be held accountable to academic or behavioral expectations.

I honestly believe in the next few decades we are going to see a large divide between those who are socially, academically, and fiscally successful and those who are not. Unlike in the past where this was caused by racism, familial wealth, neighborhoods, quality of school districts, and so on it will instead be determined by how bad or good your parenting was.


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## Seirende (Mar 5, 2020)

I don't understand your argument. Can you rephrase it in the form of a meme?


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## Seirende (Mar 5, 2020)

This my favorite generational gap meme, btw


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## Jn1232th (Mar 6, 2020)

I see a difference in gap when I’m at work. I’m 25 years old and not going to lie, I do like social media a lot and when I’m with someone who is significantly older than me, they seem to always want to socialize whole
Shift haha. 
but I have been open to that and try not to use my phone at all while at work unless it’s for med doses or protocol checks.
My sister on other hand, who is 14, lives off social media. Her friends are same way and when I do talk to them they can’t hold a conversation for more than few sentences.
I do feel like this is going to cause a divide. With a generation who can socialize and take criticism and a generation who is tech savvy but can’t take criticism/stress or anything that causes critical thinking


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## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

justin1232 said:


> when I’m with someone who is significantly older than me, they seem to always want to socialize whole
> Shift haha.


How do you mean?


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## Jn1232th (Mar 6, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> How do you mean?



just talk in general.It’s only really one person whos old enough to be my dad but he’s goes on about stories, his life, my life, calls he’s been on in the past.  I don’t mind it but when he’s talking and see I’m on Instagram at same time he will stop and start over again assuming I’m not listening


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## CCCSD (Mar 6, 2020)

That’s pretty rude. Ever thought that talking IS socializing? Your use of SM is an addiction, not communicating. This person, standing in front of you is a real, live, human, who may just be able to tell you things that might impact your life.

GTS won’t help you when you’re laying in a street, bleeding out...

No wonder this country is going down the tubes.


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## Jn1232th (Mar 6, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> That’s pretty rude. Ever thought that talking IS socializing? Your use of SM is an addiction, not communicating. This person, standing in front of you is a real, live, human, who may just be able to tell you things that might impact your life.
> 
> GTS won’t help you when you’re laying in a street, bleeding out...
> 
> No wonder this country is going down the tubes.



no it is. Which is why I stated in previous post I stopped being on social media at work  in general.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

@DragonClaw this thread pertains to you. Give us “old salts” something to consider. Offer some of _your_ generational insights...


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## Qulevrius (Mar 6, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> @DragonClaw this thread pertains to you. Give us “old salts” something to consider. Offer some of _your_ generational insights...



You sir, are a provocateur of the worst kind


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## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> You sir, are a provocateur of the worst kind


In all seriousness, I’m curious to hear from all colors of the generational rainbow. The thread isn’t meant to troll, merely to invoke.

ETA: my generational window isn’t the slightest offended by said remarks. I sincerely seek dialogue from all.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> @DragonClaw this thread pertains to you. Give us “old salts” something to consider. Offer some of _your_ generational insights...



Me?

Hmm. Disclaimer,  not everything is true to everyone my age group and I certainly don't believe it all. 

Well my folks are big into memes.  I'm too young to be a millennial.  They are like 30 with kids. 

We're used to having people look down on us.  Say we have poor work ethic or acting like we know everything.  Doesn't even matter if it's true or not. 

Going to work and school is harder than it used to be with inflation and many boomers just don't get it.  We are tired of "When I was your age".

Many of us are doomers, thinking the world has gone to crap and there's not much in the way of fixing it. 

Technology is our thing.  The latest apps, trends and things are a central hub for us to communicate. 

Some of us are hyper-agressive due to them thinking they're a victim because they've beg raised told that. Things like actual physical tantrums are coming back. 


Gender issues are peak. Some say you can be anything you say and that's okay.  Biology becomes an archaic concept. 

Things like expressing one's self are also peak.  Colored hair, tattoos and other things show others the kind of person you are.  It's an advertisement of sorts, but don't call it that. 

Casual romance means you have power.  Your body becomes a bargaining chip.  But don't call it that either or they'll get mad. 

Moving out at 18 is less a thing.  It's just costing more money to do and many parents don't mind. 

In the workplace, we dress more casually than others. If we don't like how things are,  we know eventually things will change when the older people die out. 

Many think free healthcare and other things are a right, voting for something else means you side with the rich and powerful and evil. 

Racism and sexism and thinking people are nazis are back in style to get mad about.  

In a home life, most people I talk to think moving in before marriage is mandatory. That abortion is a right. 

Messaging with someone in the same room or next to you is okay.  It's not really different than talking. 

Trying to greet someone with a firm handshake isn't really needed anymore. It might be unwanted touching or presumptuous. 

We get news from memes and social sites like Facebook and reddit. 

If they're the kind to do it,  doing keto,  yoga, etc is a way to be healthy. Paying more for meal prep that's catered to you.  Essential oils to fix things instead of meds.  

They kind of try to reject the prior culture, seemingly because they can. 

Not trying to start anything,  but CCCSD would be a prime example of those that they dislike due to the complex he/she has. That is the kind of thinking that makes us quit jobs or report people for hostile work environments or such.  In EMS we're a bit different,  but if they managed a retail store or restaurant,  they'd be prime example of a popular Twitter series about a bad boss. 

Largely because it's "I'm your boss and this is how it is.  Little people don't matter and you should listen to me" is the kind of vibe you get from it.  

And nowadays we want to be heard.  Even if we're wrong,  we want to be able to say our piece instead of being shut down. We have different priorities. 

Pets are kids. Furbabies,  scalebabies etc. We buy then lavish items and food and cater to them.  And if we had to take time off for our pets well being and then we're in trouble for not being at work? Heartless boss. It would be a *Nobody liked that* kind of thing. 

The idea of a powerful woman appeals to the female group. Like Mortica or something like that from the Addams family.  She, Daria and a few others are popular figures. 

Entertainment is largely digital.  Phone apps, movies,  Netflix etc are just ways to kill time and relax. Other things are not cost effective and should be carefully planned. 

Language.

Things like "Mood", "Big Oof" , "Oof", "F", "Vibing", "Yeet", "Big Sad" portray emotions. 

"Bois", "Birbs", "Floofs", and other such words exist to make things lighthearted.  Bois are like good people or things and can be used as bois or with a description.  Birbs are bird. Floofs are anything fluffy,  usual an animal. 

"Absolute unit", "Thicc", "Chonkers" are bigger things that are comical or funny usually. If you saw a particularly large fluffy dog one might say "This boi is a heccin chonkers floof, he thicc".  

Thicc is good.  Can refer to animals,  people or non life forms. Most things can be referred to anything if used properly 

Mood is often like a sad realization but can be good mood depending on prior context. 

Big sad is a way to talk about depression without getting to clinical and kind of make it okay.  

F means you feel badly for a situation. 

Oof is kinda like "cringe" but less severe.  Big oof is a step inbetween. 

If a buddy pokes at you,  especially if they're right you might say "Boi", all by itself.  It just means they're pushing it,  but in a comical way. 

"Right in the feels" means that's triggered an emotion response, often a kind of sadness or nostalgia. or it hit hard.

I could go on,  but if you read that and are still confused, I'll throw an f in chat for our bois we lost.

A lot of humor has turned dark,  to nihilism,  self deprecation etc. 

But there's also a line of trying to get help when needed,  especially mental health.  There's things like "Lifting ya bois up" and bring "Queens" and "Kings". Kings and queens are good people that don't get bothered and in the face of hardship don't give up. They lift others up.

Or they've done something famous that was considered to be sufficient.  Like if a guy had a bad boss so he decided to get even by like doing something crazy or clever and unapologetic. Like if you got an unjust fine and paid in pennies.

Things like sending a meme (excuse my language) that says "Did you drink water today,  you filthy *****" means you care. Water and hydration memes are in season.

Calling a friend a ho isn't bad if it's not meant to be. 

We have become pretty derogatory and fowl mouthed and kinda uncouth. 

A lot of us don't want to immediately settle down but want to enjoy life first. Having kids is often time not really a part of that. Referring to children as animals, monsters "crotch goblins" and other things are common.  They're an expense and hindrance and not really what we want right now. 

Being yourself and trying to make your own way means you realized you don't want to suffer under the yoke your parents tried to pass onto you.  Just because it's done doesn't mean we want any part of it. 

Women will encourage each other to dump men they think are bad to an extreme degree.  "Sis, leave him" to a girl you met once isn't really ask that unacceptable if she's given you the story about them.  

Immediate family bonds are not as strong,  especially if the child thinks they've been wronged constantly. People my age increasingly encourage others to sever ties to toxic family members and pursue what they want instead. 

Parenting now means you probably need to be your kids friend more than before.  You need to be "cooler" and on their level.  Otherwise they'll think you're just judgmental and things will fall on deaf ears. 

I won't forget how I taught my dad memes and we were in the living room.  We'd bright food in and the trash was still there. Crumbs and plates,  not a huge mess.  But,  He goes "Do you want ants,  this is how you get ants" and I couldn't argue that. 

If your kid wants to buy something and it's not a good deal,  (excuse my language again) "The price is too damn high" might come into play.

Of course everything doesn't have to be memes or internet speak,  but if you know the lingo, you might get a "Speech 100" moment you might not have. 

Talking down to us like we'll never achieve anything is old news. That just means you're an old curmudgeon.  Teaching and leading by example is not new,  but more important. 

We can be easily amused by things like a "Yeet cannon" or "Boaty McBoat Face". The pictures of an inflatable dying giant yellow duck on the Thames, a story someone told,  whatever. 

If you're very entertained by it,  "I'm dying ☠💀☠" is appropriate. 

It's become very Zoomer vs Boomer kind of thing.  Okay boomer is our way of saying that we don't really care that you're so out of touch.  Like we tried but it's not gonna work so we're stopping trying.

A Karen is a generic complainer who makes mountains out of molehills. Often times middle aged,  possibly divorced. 

A Kyle is a high energy guy. The drinking monster and punching drywall is a testament to his power.  Shaggy from Scooby Doo is a symbol of raw power on a godlike level.  Like scary powerful, less Kyleish and more just plain destruction.

Maybe I've kind of deviated from the point but these things are our culture.  If someone online gets upset over nothing or even if it'd a friend and we want to let them know they're being too much "Calm down Kyle/Karen" is a way to say it.  Among friends it's fun,  among internet strangers it's an insult. 

Discord serves for chat via text and voice are popular.  You pick what servers to be in. 

Things change faster and faster and for those who can't keep up, oof. 

If you want a specific answer,  more than happy to oblige.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> You sir, are a provocateur of the worst kind



Boi


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## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

Painstakingly detailed and a tad disheartening, but enlightening. I can respect that.

Yeah, like I said, there’s so much generational variation in our field. It’s too bad we all assume to know one another better than we actually do, and in turn, take each other’s insights for granted.

I’d like to see this thread grow. Hopefully it remains civil as well, but with this group...


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

Well for those of you boomers who started working when you were babies, how did you get along with the generations before you? Did you feel respected or was there a lot of talk about "kids these days"?


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## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> I’ve been thinking about this a bit lately. I know I’ve certainly hit that point in my career where I can see the obvious gaps in society’s culture shifts, what’s right, wrong, or indifferent, et
> 
> While like any job there are several generations worth of people in the workforce, I think our field is unique in that you may be “stuck” with someone old enough to be your parents/ young enough to be your child. Sometimes it works out no problem, other times not so much.
> 
> ...



The only thing I disagree with is the sentiment that self-validation through other's opinions is unique to this generation.. While our generation (I'm the tail end of gen-x) may have expressed our desire for acceptance with different nuances, the fact of the matter is that Maslow's triangle, which shows social belonging as being fairly important, was published in 1943...

My biggest observation of our younger guys is that they are more aggressive and or transparent with their selfishness, and backstabbing seems to be essentially unapologetic..


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## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> Well for those of you boomers who started working when you were babies, how did you get along with the generations before you? Did you feel respected or was there a lot of talk about "kids these days"?



There has always been "kids these days" sentiments.

I don't recall my generation creating a pejorative term for the generation above us, however..

Seriously - any time I see someone say "boomer", I genuinely want to throat punch them, because it's almost always smug.


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> There has always been "kids these days" sentiments.
> 
> I don't recall my generation creating a pejorative term for the generation above us, however..
> 
> Seriously - any time I see someone say "boomer", I genuinely want to throat punch them, because it's almost always smug.



Is there a name for that generation that I've missed other than baby boomers? I think it was sociologists that came up with that name, not millennials in general.


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## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> Is there a name for that generation that I've missed other than baby boomers? I think it was sociologists that came up with that name, not millennials in general.



Baby boomers, or the baby boomer generation, was what we refer to them as.  Boomers just comes across as smug and condescending..


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## mgr22 (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> Well for those of you boomers who started working when you were babies, how did you get along with the generations before you? Did you feel respected or was there a lot of talk about "kids these days"?



When I was growing up in the '50s, there was zero concern among us boomers about being respected by our parents. We would have settled for a little more TV time and between-meal snacking. Respect generally went in one direction: from the younger to the older. I didn't think of my father, a WWII vet, as a member of "the greatest generation"; I just thought of him as my father, which was reason enough to respect him.

Yes, parents in the '50s complained about "kids these days" as much as ever. I think I was mildly put off by that, but there was little disagreement (until the late '60s) that the older knew better than the younger.


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Baby boomers, or the baby boomer generation, was what we refer to them as.  Boomers just comes across as smug and condescending..


I shall respect your sensitivity


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## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> I shall respect your sensitivity



Doubling down, eh?


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## Qulevrius (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> Well for those of you boomers who started working when you were babies, how did you get along with the generations before you? Did you feel respected or was there a lot of talk about "kids these days"?



Mid 70s here. We were encouraged to earn our pocket money, rather than expect the parents to give it to us. Looking for pick up jobs was also our responsibility. Respecting people older than us was an axiom, and being arrogant or smug usually ended up with our arses kicked. And the main difference between “now” and “then” is that we did not demand respect from older generation just because we felt so; we were taught that respect is always earned, never given.


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Doubling down, eh?


You opened by saying you wanted to punch me in the throat...


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## CCCSD (Mar 6, 2020)

Q nailed it: WORK. Earn respect. It’s not a given just because you got a trophy for losing a soccer game. Life doesn’t tolerate losers. Relying on mommy and daddy and the G to fund your lifestyle is just another example of an inability to be a productive member of society. So is relying on a piece of electronics to validate your life.

If WWII happened today, the US would lose...because the generations who would have to protect us aren’t interested in it nor able to function, except for a dwindling few here and there. They have no sense of Duty, Honor, or Country.

Today’s supposed enlightened youth are mostly a pathetic bunch of self centered entitled whiners, who can’t fight there way out of a wet paper bag. They have no clue about the world, politics, or life. They take all their directions from the same group they are in just because they shout louder or post inane memes on the Internet. They think they are astute, but they are just ignorant.

Ask them to validate a point and they turn red, throw a tantrum, then accuse people of being biased against one of the thousands of made up gender/ethic/lifestyle choices. They can’t even figure out if they are male or female. Hint: check the plumbing, it’s a start.

More than 3/4s of them don’t know history, nor think its relevant. They want to have a degree but get upset when they are told they have to memorize and learn things, then produce arguments to support them. They feel that they can get through life by GTS because it’s just as good as knowing it.

They can’t even change a flat tire. Smart cars aren’t smart, they are designed because today’s users can’t drive, they need others to do things for them.

If C19 hits, they will die off, not because of the disease, but because the machines that allow them to text/tweet/etc don’t function. And since that is life to them, they will not survive because nature abhors a vacuum.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> Mid 70s here. We were encouraged to earn our pocket money, rather than expect the parents to give it to us. Looking for pick up jobs was also our responsibility. Respecting people older than us was an axiom, and being arrogant or smug usually ended up with our arses kicked. And the main difference between “now” and “then” is that we did not demand respect from older generation just because we felt so; we were taught that respect is always earned, never given.



Yes and when it became seemingly impossible to actually gain said respect or validation,  regardless of what my generation has gone through or tried, we gave up. 

It became an impossible task. Trying to get it was useless and disheartening.

Many of our struggles and issues,  complaints have been brushed off by the older folks. 

Because what,  we don't have to worry about polio so we have it easy? That we don't walk uphill in the snow both ways? 

The mindset and general attitude of my generation is different.  I previously mentioned mental health.  There's lots of memes about going to get help and there's no shame.  Trying to build our confidence and normalizing going to therapist and whatnot.  

Each generation will have its struggles and things that are "given" to them. And it's not wrong that I don't have to use encyclopedias to do research and it doesn't make me lazy. Last I checked you weren't riding a horse to warn the English countryside of a viking invasion,  either.  

A common theme and point of dissention is that we're crazy and wild and ignore authority.  Or were too relaxed and casual. 

I read something about how a young person held a door for an old person and the old person said "Thank you"

The young person says "No problem" 

Which triggered the old person because the "correct" response was "you're welcome"

It wasn't dismissive to say no problem,  it was just that we saw it less of needing praise and that it's just a nice thing to do. Like "It wasn't difficult, no need for thanks".

I myself use bro, dude,  and man when referring to people in casual conversation. Doesn't matter if they're a literal dude or not. If the stretcher released doesn't want to work because it's janked up,  I might say " dude!" At it. 

We also anthropomorphize many things. Usually for comedic value. 

We probably do get a little crazy, but back in my dad's day they did way worse stuff than I did and cops weren't called.  Nowadays cops come out for everything and people go to jail over things that would have been laughed at.

But one of the big things is that older gens see us as brats,  children, lazy,  etc. And they see us as insubordinate or contentious. If I had to guess,  it seems like they think we go out of our way to cause trouble. 

And as long as they treat us like such,  there's going to be strife.  

Maybe a "Come here and sit down.  I heard what happened (altercation or whatever) and I want to hear your side" is important. Even if you were there and think you saw it all and heard it all.  And I'm not saying that makes them right or even their reason is right.  

Treat us like people and less like wild animals and you might get somewhere.


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## CCCSD (Mar 6, 2020)

What, exactly, has “your generation” gone through that is any different from earlier generations?


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

Someone's being smug and condescending in this thread and it's not me...


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## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> What, exactly, has “your generation” gone through that is any different from earlier generations?



When you were around 8 years old,  what did you do for entertainment?

Video games, either handhelds or the dawn of pc/ console gaming was the start. And if you can't understand that a lot of us have good memories from those days that are nostalgic and we continue to play them for entertainment,  you've missed it.

Apparently we've raised the price of avocados because we like them so much.

"These bois are straight fire"

Mass communication in the palm of our hands.  Back in my dad's day he had a giant car phone and THAT was unusual.  He paid 2K for it. In that days money.

It's that moment in the truck where everything is clean, we don't have calls holding, paperwork is caught up etc that I can have a moment to browse some memes and check in with the squad.

And that's wrong because? We don't do watercooler talk like y'all used to. 

There's so much feeling of being invalidated by older people that no matter how hard we try or what we do,  it won't be enough.  So you know what? Might as well do what I want because burn me once...

We realized (we got woke) that happiness doesn't come from grinding a 9-5. So when we go to work, it's merely a tool. We just each that bread so we can use it on what we want.  You may ask, how is that different.  But it is.  It's almost a dislike of work.  It becomes something to slog through if we aren't happy in the field.  So more and more we become unhappy in a typical job field due to the realization of how gray something is that we don't like.  So we'd rather look for something we love so work isn't work.  But more and more it's become this way.  And it's actively encouraged to shed societal expectations (of raising a family,  having certain jobs,  etc), because we won't ever meet them anyway.





Seirende said:


> Someone's being smug and condescending in this thread and it's not me...



I don't know if you mean me or not.  Not trying to start anything.  😅

Edit: not done.  Trying to keep up with replies


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

@FiremanMike I'm just teasing you
@CCCSD you're being a straight up bigot

*bigot*
big·ot | \ ˈbi-gət  \
*Definition of bigot*

*: *a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially *: *one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> And the main difference between “now” and “then” is that we did not demand respect from older generation just because we felt so; we were taught that respect is always earned, never given.



The way I learned it is that you treat everyone with respect without being deferential.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> The way I learned it is that you treat everyone with respect without being deferential.



Our generation is upset because we can't even have human dignity without having "earned" it.  So we'll just wait all the boomers out.  The older gen can't win a war of attrition.


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

Maybe we're going off different definitions of respect.


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## akflightmedic (Mar 6, 2020)

Respect absolutely is and always should be the default position....you can lose it through actions or words and then possibly regain it, however it should always be granted without exception until proven otherwise.

I have never subscribed to the "earn it" BS mantra...that is a dated, flawed, and dangerous mentality to possess.


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## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

I think it's important also to remember that you never know someone's whole story. You might want to look down on someone who struggles with drug addiction, but would you look at them differently if you knew they were a survivor of terrible childhood abuse, as so many addicts are?


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## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> I think it's important also to remember that you never know someone's whole story. You might want to look down on someone who struggles with drug addiction, but would you look at them differently if you knew they were a survivor of terrible childhood abuse, as so many addicts are?



They don't see your struggles so they must not exist. Because you've survived whatever it is,  individually,  culturally,  generationally and still manage a semblance of a life so your problems and issues you do have must come from you.

They don't care what you do,  how hard you try,  the progress you've made. "Because when I was your age"


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## Qulevrius (Mar 6, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Yes and when it became seemingly impossible to actually gain said respect or validation, regardless of what my generation has gone through or tried, we gave up.
> 
> It became an impossible task. Trying to get it was useless and disheartening.
> 
> ...



I too, would like to know what is it exactly that the millennials have gone through. Except for the Afghan/Iraq vets, who are obviously not posting here. 

You’re talking about struggles and complaints. You’re saying it’s been brushed off; I say “suck it up, princess”. You think your generation is unique, same as every other generation before you. Sorry to break it to you, but there’s no such thing. The only “uniqueness” is the way each generation goes about it. 

What your generation is doing now (and what we’ve never done) is called throwing a temper tantrum on an unprecedented scale, and hoping to get away with it. The people who enabled your generation, are not a part of it. They’re much older and smarter, and a part of a political establishment with their own agenda. They did not just create a generational gap; they opened a bottomless chasm between you and those that came before you. 

Now you’re within your right to ask what the hell am I talking about, because _clearly_ we’re not getting through to you. Allow me to explain: this is a means of control on a mass scale. 

See, we’re on the opposite ends of the spectrum here. Whilst I’m talking about responsibilities, you’re bringing up mental health; I mention values and you post a dissertation on internet slang.

What you fail to comprehend is that I and other “old farts” here are not trying to teach you how to live your life. All we’re trying to do is to *show* you the roots of everyone’s frustration. It’s not that we know better - we just see a much bigger, intricate picture because we have this thing called “life experience”. 

You too, will get there one day. But until then - stop being a goddamn brat.


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> They don't see your struggles so they must not exist. Because you've survived whatever it is,  individually,  culturally,  generationally and still manage a semblance of a life so your problems and issues you do have must come from you.
> 
> They don't care what you do,  how hard you try,  the progress you've made. "Because when I was your age"



In the context of this thread, it sounds like you're generalizing certain attitudes as being held by entire generations, which I don't think is accurate.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Our generation is upset because we can't even have human dignity without having "earned" it.  So we'll just wait all the boomers out.  The older gen can't win a war of attrition.



What is human dignity, in your mind?  What amount of your definition of human dignity are you owed compared to what you must earn?




DragonClaw said:


> They don't see your struggles so they must not exist. Because you've survived whatever it is,  individually,  culturally,  generationally and still manage a semblance of a life so your problems and issues you do have must come from you.
> 
> They don't care what you do,  how hard you try,  the progress you've made. "Because when I was your age"



Do you assume that the generation before you somehow had it easier?  Do you assume that your generation is the only one to have struggles?  While this self-centric worldview isn't unique to your generation, it certainly seems to be more pronounced in modern times than it was when I was younger..

And just so I understand, who is "they"?


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> I too, would like to know what is it exactly that the millennials have gone through.



I would guess that DragonClaw is not a Millennial.


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

Everyone should state their generation so we're clear

I'm tail end of the Millennials


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> I would guess that DragonClaw is not a Millennial.



I'm not.  As previously stated. 

I don't have any off days until April probably. I need to get a shower and get on shift.

But I will rehash this and answer questions when I've got a minute.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I'm not.  As previously stated.
> 
> I don't have any off days until April probably. I need to get a shower and get on shift.
> 
> But I will rehash this and answer questions when I've got a minute.



Then I will rephrase my second question..

What struggles do you see the current generation has that you didn't have?


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Then I will rephrase my second question..
> 
> What struggles do you see the current generation has that you didn't have?



What do you mean by "current generation"? Generation Alpha is the youngest currently.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Whatever generation he was referring to in his "they don't see your struggles" post..


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Whatever generation she was referring to in her "they don't see your struggles" post..


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

We're not all men here


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Ok, her/she.


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

What's your generation, @FiremanMike ?


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> What's your generation, @FiremanMike ?



I said it earlier, I’m at the tail end of Gen X..


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

I forgot about gen x, I'll admit it


----------



## Seirende (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> I don't recall my generation creating a pejorative term for the generation above us, however..



This is what confused me, because gen x is the generation before mine and everyone just forgets about them. Nobody makes fun of gen x.


----------



## GMCmedic (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> This is what confused me, because gen x is the generation before mine and everyone just forgets about them. Nobody makes fun of gen x.


Yeah we do, literally any joke about how awful the 80's was is directed at them. 


Ashamed to admit, "elder millenial"


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 6, 2020)

I was going to stay out of this, but......

I don't think it's unique to EMS; plenty of careers require you to work with someone from another generation.  The only difference is EMS requires you to physically work next to the person, in the same vehicle for 12 hours, while others not so much.

We can talk about the failures of social media, the polarization of the political spectrum, everyone gets a trophy, the mass manipulation of the media (and yes, I'm talking about CNN, FoxNews, and MSNBC being the worse news manipulators), the rise in mass shootings and teen suicides, and the millennial who have become so stereotyped that the even the boomers are complaining about them, but the reality is, every generation thinks the previous generation sucks, and the next generation doesn't know anything.  if you go back 100 years you can find references to the exact same thing happening.  It happens with EVERY generation.

Want to simplify things?  how about this: Hard work pays off.  Some people get lucky (old money), but many people worked hard for where they are at.  Some people are smart, some aren't; but you aren't owed anything, and if you work hard, in a field that is in demand, you should be compensated accordingly.  And if you don't like your job, than either find another one, or get educated and find a new job.  *****ing about it solves nothing.  The previous generation sucks, so we will make things better for the next generation; only for them to think that we suck.

And for the record, respect is earned.   Too many baby boomers forget that, and expect young people to instantly give them respect, while treating them like crap.  and too many millennial forget that the old timers have forgotten more than than they have learned, and seen and done more in their lifetimes than the young kids have (at this point in their life), so you shouldn't ignore them just because they are old and want things to be as they were "back in the day." 

I'm an Elder Millennial 



.


----------



## GMCmedic (Mar 6, 2020)

Im in the respect is earned not given boat, but just because someone hasnt earned your respect, doesnt mean you cant treat them respectfully.


----------



## NomadicMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

This is the most depressing thread I have ever seen on this site.


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> This is what confused me, because gen x is the generation before mine and everyone just forgets about them. Nobody makes fun of gen x.


Gen Z has taken to calling Gen X — once a mere bystander in the generational wars — the "Karen generation," as in Karen, the middle-aged white mom who is always asking for the manager and wondering why kids are so obsessed with their identities.

Karens are generally "privileged from the system the boomers set up for them and [are] now acting entitled and working against Gen Z," explained Julia, a 23-year-old in Norway. "They’re usually racist, homophobic, and transphobic, don’t believe in vaccines or climate change, and are mostly also the parents of Gen Z children."









						Gen Z Is Calling Gen X The "Karen Generation"
					

"They’re usually racist, homophobic, and transphobic, don’t believe in vaccines or climate change, and are mostly also the parents of Gen Z children."




					www.buzzfeednews.com


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 6, 2020)

For those who can't keep the generations clear:






And for some more reading:









						What Is the Official Name for Every Generation?
					

Many generations born in the U.S. have nicknames and defining traits, these groups dating back to the late 1800s. What generation are you?




					www.thoughtco.com
				




https://www.kasasa.com/articles/generations/gen-x-gen-y-gen-z  <---- this one explains many common characteristics of the generations, as well as why they are like this









						Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins
					

Pew Research Center now uses 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials in our work. President Michael Dimock explains why.




					www.pewresearch.org


----------



## mgr22 (Mar 6, 2020)

Seirende said:


> In the context of this thread, it sounds like you're generalizing certain attitudes as being held by entire generations, which I don't think is accurate.



There's a lot of generalizing going on in this thread. To be fair to DragonClaw, she was asked a direct question by VentMonkey, and she answered it.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

NomadicMedic said:


> This is the most depressing thread I have ever seen on this site.


It certainly took quite the turn, which is fine, but it has answered more than enough to me.

Guess I’m just grateful I was raised by decent people in spite of their generations definition. I think @Peak eluded to this, and I’d agree:

It’s more about parenting in and of itself than the current generation. Just raise good people.

Maybe it’s my own fault, maybe I asked the wrong question, but regardless of age society sure seems “triggered” much easier now than before.

@DragonClaw your first reply was good enough, thanks. 

@DrParasite made a good point about cleaning things up, only to turn around and complain about //shakes fist// those darn ingrates...

FWIW, I was born in 1980, wherever the hell that leaves me on the “gen scale”.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> It certainly took quite the turn, which is fine, but it has answered more than enough to me.
> 
> Guess I’m just grateful I was raised by decent people in spite of their generations definition. I think @Peak eluded to this, and I’d agree:
> 
> ...



I was born near that year as well.. We are actually a very specific generation that grew up playing outdoors and using our imagination, then saw the start of the internet while we were in high school and the rise of cell phones in our early 20s.. 

Technically members of gen-x, but some have separated it into it's own generation, the name of which escapes me..


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

Wait can I still answer the other questions or does this suffice?


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> .. We are actually a very specific generation that grew up playing outdoors and using our imagination, then saw the start of the internet while we were in high school and the rise of cell phones in our early 20s..


This sounds about right. I remember not even wanting a flip phone, haha.


DragonClaw said:


> Wait can I still answer the other questions or does this suffice?


 I have no ban hammer.


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

It’s upbringing. I got raised in/around EMS, the 90s-style Dysfunctional kind, with that attendant culture but also permission, with accountability and responsibility as the foundations. I work hard and turned out OK. My current “partner” is only five years younger than my elderly 31, but is a complete lazy loser failure, probably because he was never held accountable for anything.


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 6, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> @DrParasite made a good point about cleaning things up, only to turn around and complain about //shakes fist// those darn ingrates...


Did I really call anyone an ingrate?  I just said how we ALL need to treat each other better, we ALL complain about other generations, and if you want something, you need to work hard for it.  Plus everything is cyclical, so we aren't the first generation to have generational issues, and we won't be the last.


VentMonkey said:


> FWIW, I was born in 1980, wherever the hell that leaves me on the “gen scale”.


According to the extensive research I did on this topic, you are a Millennial, or maybe an Elder Millennial if you like Iliza.......


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

DrParasite said:


> Did I really call anyone an ingrate?


I was paraphrasing man, chill out. Lol, triggered.


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 6, 2020)




----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 6, 2020)

Just to reiterate on the importance of upbringing - my wife, who was born in ‘81, takes great offense to being called a millennial. She’s the youngest in a family of 6, with other 3 of her siblings being Gen X and baby boomer parents.

And to close this with an anecdote: I had a job recently, where I was to put up a vanity corner for a young girl some 16-17 y.o. She was very proactive with helping me where the help was needed, and we got to chit chat a bit. Despite growing up in a pretty wealthy family in a very well off neighborhood, she works a couple shifts a week in a See’s store, and had told me in no uncertain words that she is ashamed of her own generation.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 6, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> Just to reiterate on the importance of upbringing - my wife, who was born in ‘81, takes great offense to being called a millennial. She’s the youngest in a family of 6, with other 3 of her siblings being Gen X and baby boomer parents.
> 
> And to close this with an anecdote: I had a job recently, where I was to put up a vanity corner for a young girl some 16-17 y.o. She was very proactive with helping me where the help was needed, and we got to chit chat a bit. Despite growing up in a pretty wealthy family in a very well off neighborhood, she works a couple shifts a week in a See’s store, and had told me in no uncertain words that she is ashamed of her own generation.



Upbringing plays a part, for sure, but the within the last 10 or so years, our youth has access to something that no one else in history has ever had; Immediate access to a seemingly unlimited amount of information and people who will reaffirm any belief that they might have..


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 6, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Upbringing plays a part, for sure, but the within the last 10 or so years, our youth has access to something that no one else in history has ever had; Immediate access to a seemingly unlimited amount of information and people who will reaffirm any belief that they might have..



That’s straight up Bauerlein’s alley, he wrote about it over a decade ago.


----------



## NomadicMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

For what it’s worth, I was born in 1970. The majority of the work force at my agency is much younger. I’ll admit, I find the work ethic and lack of responsibility of some to be disheartening.

I’m certainly not tossing all of the younger EMS providers into that bucket, we have many that have a very strong work ethic, are engaged and don’t present the same aura of entitlement… But those that do are a bit hard to take.


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> Q nailed it: WORK. Earn respect. It’s not a given just because you got a trophy for losing a soccer game. Life doesn’t tolerate losers. Relying on mommy and daddy and the G to fund your lifestyle is just another example of an inability to be a productive member of society. So is relying on a piece of electronics to validate your life.
> 
> If WWII happened today, the US would lose...because the generations who would have to protect us aren’t interested in it nor able to function, except for a dwindling few here and there. They have no sense of Duty, Honor, or Country.
> 
> ...


Balderdash. This is quite literally the dumbest thing I’ve read today, and I’ve both heard my partner speak and seen Trumps twitter. Impressively stupid. Especially the “smart cars” bit. Because lane-keep assist is bad for American maturity and broken femurs build character.


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> What, exactly, has “your generation” gone through that is any different from earlier generations?


Endless warfare, looming climate change, always-on social media, an economy that increasingly fails to provide opportunities for most...


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

NomadicMedic said:


> This is the most depressing thread I have ever seen on this site.


I’ve got popcorn wanna share?


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 6, 2020)

NomadicMedic said:


> For what it’s worth, I was born in 1970. The majority of the work force at my agency is much younger. I’ll admit, I find the work ethic and lack of responsibility of some to be disheartening.
> 
> I’m certainly not tossing all of the younger EMS providers into that bucket, we have many that have a very strong work ethic, are engaged and don’t present the same aura of entitlement… But those that do are a bit hard to take.



I picked up the truck this morning from an early Gen X medic, in his late 40s. Oxygen depleted, batteries dead, filthy and smelly. They left. My somewhat younger late-millennial  “partner” went to sleep after doing the bare minimum while complaining and watching YouTube as is his custom. I postulate that all of this “generational” crap is a hot barrel of malarkey and there isn’t anything to support it other than people being lazy and willfully ignorant because they’ve found they’re not held accountable.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

I'm about to hit 80 hours for the week. I'll probably not have any off days this month.  I'm trying to learn everything I can about the job. Eat,  sleep,  shower,  work. Week 1.5 of no days off. I've already picked up 3 more shifts.  I do the supervisor's paperwork after shift. 

I forgot I'm supposed to be lazy, whiny,  entitled,  apathetic and a poor worker.  🤔


----------



## mgr22 (Mar 6, 2020)

RocketMedic said:


> I picked up the truck this morning from an early Gen X medic, in his late 40s. Oxygen depleted, batteries dead, filthy and smelly. They left. My somewhat younger late-millennial  “partner” went to sleep after doing the bare minimum while complaining and watching YouTube as is his custom. I postulate that all of this “generational” crap is a hot barrel of malarkey and there isn’t anything to support it other than people being lazy and willfully ignorant because they’ve found they’re not held accountable.



I agree, mostly. I've had fellow boomers for partners who've done the same. It's easy to generalize about personality traits across entire generations, but not so easy to offer more than anecdotes to back up most of those generalizations.

Individuals either have character or lack it, no matter how old they are.


----------



## GMCmedic (Mar 6, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I'm about to hit 80 hours for the week. I'll probably not have any off days this month. I'm trying to learn everything I can about the job. Eat, sleep, shower, work. Week 1.5 of no days off. I've already picked up 3 more shifts. I do the supervisor's paperwork after shift.
> 
> I forgot I'm supposed to be lazy, whiny, entitled, apathetic and a poor worker.


You keep that schedule up and itll only be a matter of time.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 6, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> You keep that schedule up and itll only be a matter of time.


It's short term,  need to make X3 rent to get an apartment.  After that I'll go down to around 60 hours.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> That’s pretty rude. Ever thought that talking IS socializing? Your use of SM is an addiction, not communicating. This person, standing in front of you is a real, live, human, who may just be able to tell you things that might impact your life.
> 
> *GTS won’t help you when you’re laying in a street, bleeding out...*
> 
> No wonder this country is going down the tubes.


I absolutely agree with your first paragraph, but the highlighted part? That’s unnecessarily ruthless and irrelevant.

Come on? We’re better than that.


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 7, 2020)

Random thoughts on this topic...

I had a beeper in the 6th grade.... sick one with a cool little chain. I think I’m a “millennial.” Not really sure, but I know that hard work pays off, to treat people right until they give you a reason not to, and that respect is earned but also revokable.

We used to have to call our parents on 1800-Collect to come pick us up from the park/pool when we were ready to go. Today I see memes of kids taking photos of pay phones wondering what the hell they are.

When I was 16 my first cell phone was one of those old indestructible Nokia’s. I worked part time in a grocery store after school... ($6.12 an hour.)At night when it was time to clean the bathrooms I would play the snake game while the floor dried after mopping and cleaning toilets. “Millennial?”

I remember being broke and pissed as an early 20 something- mad that the rich and powerful were keeping me down! Then one day I woke up and thought, what’s stopping me from becoming rich and powerful? The answer was: myself.

I’ve been through a lot of ******** in my youth and growing up, hard times, poor family, trauma, etc etc...Everyone has baggage. I found it didn’t pay to use it as an excuse to be a whiner- instead, used it as motivation to be a winner.


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 7, 2020)

Also, I concur that parenting and how you are raised has a whole lot to do with it.


----------



## akflightmedic (Mar 7, 2020)

She got a lot of hits though...









						Wendy’s employee surprisingly quits in the middle of her shift: ‘Stop, are you serious?’
					

A former Wendy’s employee is going viral after quitting her job mid-shift with a dramatic gesture — and filming the entire thing.




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 7, 2020)

akflightmedic said:


> She got a lot of hits though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol. Clown.
Action without consequences. The reason people didn’t do stuff like this before is because no one would hire you if you did things like this at a previous employer. You’d be blackballed from getting another job basically. These days- this behavior is rewarded, much like a clown act.

Maybe when she is sick of the big meanie heads at the gym she’ll launch herself off a treadmill set on its highest speed.


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 7, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> Lol. Clown.
> Action without consequences. The reason people didn’t do stuff like this before is because no one would hire you if you did things like this at a previous employer. You’d be blackballed from getting another job basically. These days- this behavior is rewarded, much like a clown act.
> 
> Maybe when she is sick of the big meanie heads at the gym she’ll launch herself off a treadmill set on its highest speed.




“Then: This is Bob, the village idiot. He spends the day scratching his balls. Says it deters global warming .

Today: This is Bob, our local celebrity. He’s a famous vlogger, his Youtube channel has 5 mil subs where he posts the vids of himself scratching his balls. He also has a viral Instagram account and a Facebook page.”


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 7, 2020)

Wow is all I can say about that video. I did share it with our oldest along with the following text:

If you ever act this way I will A) know I have failed you as a father and a parent, and B) most likely disown you. Love, Dad.


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 7, 2020)

I commend her for quitting a crappy job. Been there, done that, and I would rather panhandle for favors than drive a wheelchair van ever ever again.


----------



## E tank (Mar 7, 2020)

“I have worked at my new job for one day and I already like it,” she said. 

Until she doesn't...then no notice, no reasons why, no trying to leave it a better place... as if there is some kind of nobility in doing her duty before she quit without notice leaving her coworkers high and dry her next scheduled shift....hope that ethic doesn't come into play in marriage and parenting....


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 7, 2020)

RocketMedic said:


> I commend her for quitting a crappy job. Been there, done that, and I would rather panhandle for favors than drive a wheelchair van ever ever again.


Right. Did you give ample notice like an actual adult, or did you act a fool and jump out of a window as a spectacle for all to see because you felt inadequate and insecure for who knows what reason/s?

Apples and oranges, man.


----------



## E tank (Mar 7, 2020)

eh...it has ever been thus...

“Youth were never more sawcie, yea never more savagely saucie . . . the ancient are scorned, the honourable are contemned, the magistrate is not dreaded.”

*The Wise-Man’s Forecast against the Evill Time, Thomas Barnes
1624*

Just stay the hell off my lawn, ya punks....


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 7, 2020)

Bro I gave them the same regard they showed me.


----------



## CCCSD (Mar 7, 2020)

E tank said:


> “I have worked at my new job for one day and I already like it,” she said.
> 
> Until she doesn't...then no notice, no reasons why, no trying to leave it a better place... as if there is some kind of nobility in doing her duty before she quit without notice leaving her coworkers high and dry her next scheduled shift....hope that ethic doesn't come into play in marriage and parenting....



It will. It’s generationally ingrained. “No ethics” would be a good descriptor for everyone post early millennial.


----------



## E tank (Mar 7, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> It will. It’s generationally ingrained. “No ethics” would be a good descriptor for everyone post early millennial.



I wouldn't go that far...my kids pretty much get it...so do most of their friends from what I can tell.


----------



## hpclayto (Mar 7, 2020)

Just go to work and do your job and treat your patients?


----------



## Tigger (Mar 8, 2020)

What did I just read. 

If anyone is looking for a microcosm of why generational discord exists, I think this thread would be a good example. The older generation will always see the younger one as weak and coddled. The younger will always see the older as out of touch. Does it matter? 

Can you work hard, learn, and be kind? That's really all I care about with my coworkers, I don't care how old you are.


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 8, 2020)

Undue “respect” for traditions, tenure and “elders” leads to crap like stand-up 24s and paramedics on wheelchair vans.


----------



## Tigger (Mar 8, 2020)

RocketMedic said:


> Undue “respect” for traditions, tenure and “elders” leads to crap like stand-up 24s and paramedics on wheelchair vans.


Or requiring paramedics have experience before hiring them and then subjecting them to a 14 month probie year during which time they are not to participate in anything outside of company level training.


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 8, 2020)

RocketMedic said:


> Undue “respect” for traditions, tenure and “elders” leads to crap like stand-up 24s and paramedics on wheelchair vans.





Tigger said:


> Or requiring paramedics have experience before hiring them and then subjecting them to a 14 month probie year during which time they are not to participate in anything outside of company level training.


Actually that's just bad policy.


----------



## StCEMT (Mar 8, 2020)

I am the tail end of millennial I think. Just like with everything, nothing can be said in absolutes. 

Yeah, I crashed with my folks for 2 years after college. (Damn entitled kids these days, I know). However. I paid off $45k+ in debt and built up $20k+ in assets, got my CCT, and established myself at my current job as someone they use as a resource.

I've got a ton of weird/raunchy/dark/random memes on my phone, but many come from a co-worker almost old enough to be my mom. So not really something of just my generation. 

I think I have called out of 2 shifts in 3 years and been late (by minutes) to maybe 3 more. It is incredibly rare I call out or show up late. I work harder than some of the people older than me because they are either disgruntled with the company and don't care and/or have enough seniority that they don't have to care. I might be disgruntled, but I refuse to be a buddy ****er and make people work harder for my slack.

I might use my phone a lot at work in down time, but I use it to look up research, listen to podcasts, play with investments and try to learn about the finer details of it, watch cooking videos because I enjoy meal prepping and finding new things to make, etc. I'm happy to have a conversation with my partners. I know just about everyone here that has been here a while, but sometimes I don't want to talk. Sometimes me "having my head buried in my phone" is me learning about PE ratios, 3x ETF's, call/put options, tracking general market news or planning a home cooked meal for date night where we cook something fancy with some kick *** sides and dessert. Hell I have an Instagram account that is purely for following people like Eric Bauer, Andrew Fischer, and people of that nature. If you see me on there, it's 100% for the educational posts.

I might be vocal and opinionated, but that's less because of my generation and more because I was raised by people with military, LE, and farming backgrounds and not being direct and decisive just wasn't done.

I don't know. I definitely hit many of the stereotypes of my generation, but I don't think in the context older generations think when you hear the "kids these days" comments. Not that there isn't a degree of truth to those comments, but....blankets are for naps, not statements.


----------



## Tigger (Mar 9, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> Actually that's just bad policy.


It is indeed. And why does it stay? Traditions.


----------



## Tigger (Mar 9, 2020)

StCEMT said:


> I am the tail end of millennial I think. Just like with everything, nothing can be said in absolutes.
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't know. I definitely hit many of the stereotypes of my generation, but I don't think in the context older generations think when you hear the "kids these days" comments. Not that there isn't a degree of truth to those comments, but....blankets are for naps, not statements.


I feel this. I am 28 and have a successful EMS career with a diverse resume of quality employers. All I hear is "well maybe you don't do xyz but your generation sure does." Maybe they do, but of what use is such commentary? Doesn't exactly generate a lot of goodwill. And please save the "well you should take that as a compliment." That is not a compliment. Stating that someone doesn't have a poor attitude is not what they want to hear, let me be the first to tell you. If you want to compliment your people, maybe just recognize what they do right, not what they don't do wrong.


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 9, 2020)

Tigger said:


> It is indeed. And why does it stay? Traditions.


Tradition to beat up a crew for 24 hours? Tradition to put a paramedic in a wheelchair van?
Tradition to have non-compete clauses?
Tradition to require experienced medics?
Tradition to have crappy policies for employees?

No- it is corporate greed and about making the most profits...
It has nothing to do with elders, tenure, respect or millennials.

One makes a choice to be employed somewhere; if one disagrees with the policies I suppose they should seek other employment...  not blame tradition.


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 9, 2020)

Tigger said:


> It is indeed. And why does it stay? Traditions.



It’s bad business practices that have nothing to do with generational gaps. Only reason they exist is because people put up with it.


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## Tigger (Mar 9, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> Tradition to beat up a crew for 24 hours? Tradition to put a paramedic in a wheelchair van?
> Tradition to have non-compete clauses?
> Tradition to require experienced medics?
> Tradition to have crappy policies for employees?
> ...





Qulevrius said:


> It’s bad business practices that have nothing to do with generational gaps. Only reason they exist is because people put up with it.


I work for the fire service. Corporate greed is not the motivator for our occasional stupidity. Tradition is exactly why absurd probationary processes exist, because it has always been that way. Some departments are getting with the program, mine is not. 

The other stuff, I don't have an opinion on.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 9, 2020)

Tigger said:


> I work for the fire service. Corporate greed is not the motivator for our occasional stupidity. Tradition is exactly why absurd probationary processes exist, because it has always been that way. Some departments are getting with the program, mine is not.
> 
> The other stuff, I don't have an opinion on.


So what is your beef; that you have to earn your stripes in a probationary period? Most depts have probie years. Do you feel perhaps that it should be shorter, and do you perhaps consider that this day in age the instant gratification normalcy contributes to that desire?

I’m not trying to insult you, I am seriously asking you.

Is operating cost, revenue, and other financials a consideration when enacting such policies? Is there a cost saving mechanism to your departments policy that drives it (Ie: less pay, less benefits, etc)?


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## Tigger (Mar 9, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> So what is your beef; that you have to earn your stripes in a probationary period? Most depts have probie years. Do you feel perhaps that it should be shorter, and do you perhaps consider that this day in age the instant gratification normalcy contributes to that desire?
> 
> I’m not trying to insult you, I am seriously asking you.


I was hired into an "experienced" paramedic position. Verifiable experience as an educator along with some degree of previous admin work was a requirement. Despite this, and a position description that includes all of this and more (QA/QI, equipment, FTO duties), half the department still maintains the old fire service culture of "new guy knows nothing, therefore new guy cleans." Seems to be a bit of disconnect there. If they wanted to hire super new folks who could just be put in the corner, they could have done that much more cheaply than hiring me or the rest of the EMS staff at a very competitive rate, which is why I am quite happy to go to work everyday. They're wasting the staff's potential in name of "fire service tradition" where some light hazing goes on for a year and then you're one of the guys. I do not discount the value of earning your stripes, but 14 months for an experienced provider is a waste of time for all involved. 

Let me reiterate, I am still quite happy to go to work everyday. I just sigh a bit when we don't use our people (FFs included) to their potential.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 9, 2020)

Fair enough. You’re allowed your opinion.
It’s the industry standard, I’ll concede because that’s the way it has always been. I’ll also maintain that it is somewhat beneficial to have a probie policy (while having respectful attitudes) to give one the opportunity to a.) prove themselves, and b.) build character and reputation, and c.) build interpersonal skills. New guys should not be given the keys to the castle so to speak, in my opinion (as a new guy in my new career).

If I may be so bold- _not_ having that kind of system in place is how you wind up with exactly the type of personalities and scenarios as the younger  folks have described... taddleing on senior partners and thinking they know best. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked in to new jacks sitting on the couch with their feet on the table in the ready-room. New people need to be put in their place by their more experienced peers when they fail to bring their A game to a professional environment. The world is better for it.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 9, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> scenarios as the younger  folks have described... taddleing on senior partners and thinking they know best.



Are you referring to me?


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 9, 2020)

@Tigger you are aware that the fire service is not the only place that has a "probationary" period, right?  My corporate job has one too, and you can be terminated for any reason (or for not completing our stupid internal training courses) within the given time span.

I'm completely in favor of a probationary period.  Prove you can do the job.   If you are an "experienced" paramedic, you should have no problem completing the requirements.  You know as well as I do, that in every situation, there is the right way, the wrong way, and then there is the way the organization wants it done, and learning that way (or culture) is why you have a probationary period.  BTW, everyone should clean (but the new guys generally get stuck with the bathrooms), everyone takes turn cooking, and certain events are handled as a crew.

If you can master it all in 2 months, than there you go.  If it takes you 6, it takes you 6.  14 months might be a little long, but if that's what it takes for you to jump through all their hoops, than so be it.  It all boils down to what they require for a probationary period, and hopefully someone is providing you with clear objective feedback during this time.


SandpitMedic said:


> taddleing on senior partners and thinking they know best. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked in to new jacks sitting on the couch with their feet on the table in the ready-room.  New people need to be put in their place by their more experienced peers when they fail to bring their A game to a professional environment. The world is better for it.


I've seen plenty of "more experienced peers" fail to bring their professional A game to a professional environment.  They seem to think they don't need to, those rules are for the younger people, and don't always apply to them, because they have been there for a while.  And if someone does tattle on the senior partner, the response from management  is "well, that's how this person is, and we aren't going to change them."  Shouldn't the rules apply to everyone equally, and everyone should be expected to bring their A game?

And those new people WILL take their lead from the senior people, so if the senior people are sitting on the couch with their feet on the table, guess what the young people will do?


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 9, 2020)

I’ll put my feet up when I want to. And I’ll take naps on 24s when I can. And I’m cleaning, but so is everyone else. Probably why I’m not a firefighter.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 9, 2020)

Agreed, everyone should be held to the same standard and be on their A game, but when you are new the bar is higher, then you can relax a little. That’s for good reason.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. You guys can feel how you want about it, just like I can. I’ll continue checking new guys with their feet up when there is work to be done. There’s a time and place for everything- for the record, I’m not talking about taking a nap during downtime.

DragonClaw, if I were to give you advice it would be this: when you are at work remember that you have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Use the former more than the latter. You are creating a reputation that will follow you. Be mindful.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 9, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> Agreed, everyone should be held to the same standard and be on their A game, but when you are new the bar is higher, then you can relax a little. That’s for good reason.
> 
> I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. You guys can feel how you want about it, just like I can. I’ll continue checking new guys with their feet up when there is work to be done. There’s a time and place for everything- for the record, I’m not talking about taking a nap during downtime.
> 
> DragonClaw, if I were to give you advice it would be this: when you are at work remember that you have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Use the former more than the latter. You are creating a reputation that will follow you. Be mindful.



Y'all don't like that I asked for direction?

You know what I saw?

A medic who would refuse more than 2 calls per shift.  A medic who aggressively hated the job and bring a medic.  A medic who left a messy truck and didn't want to clean anything.  A medic who leaves the truck with barely any gas (I was driving,  so yeah we stopped for gas as to not leave an empty truck for the next crew).

I heard him watching a TV show for most of the shift and when asking job related questions,  was ignored or got an incomplete answer that wasn't sufficient.

If my reputation is being a young,  eager EMT who actually likes the job and wants to do it well, then,  whatever.  The only other snip I've had with someone is the EMT-I who refused to admit you can ascultate a BP. They also bought a massage chair on shift and put it in the ambo. They also didn't believe me that the O2 bottle has a leak and got mad at me when she found it leaking.

Edit: He also made himself scarce when it was time to put up equipment.  There's a storage unit we use for this particular outlying station that is his normal station.  I couldn't lock it up because he disappeared.


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 9, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Y'all don't like that I asked for direction?
> 
> You know what I saw?
> 
> ...



This is the kind of self righteous BS that repeatedly makes people miserable and the reason they jump jobs every few months. I’ll reiterate on what I’ve already told you - learn to read others and talk less. 

If you want an inspiration from someone other than me, you could listen to Depeche Mode’s “Policy of Truth”. Specifically the verse where they say “You’ll see your problems multiply | If you continuously decide | To faithfully pursue | The policy of truth”. No one in your company wants _your_ version of truth. You’re new to all this and your opinion is worth nothing. You keep tilting at windmills, that’s your prerogative but don’t be surprised when people around you start avoiding you. Welcome to the real world.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 9, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> This is the kind of self righteous BS that repeatedly makes people miserable and the reason they jump jobs every few months. I’ll reiterate on what I’ve already told you - learn to read others and talk less.
> 
> If you want an inspiration from someone other than me, you could listen to Depeche Mode’s “Policy of Truth”. Specifically the verse where they say “You’ll see your problems multiply | If you continuously decide | To faithfully pursue | The policy of truth”. No one in your company wants _your_ version of truth. You’re new to all this and your opinion is worth nothing. You keep tilting at windmills, that’s your prerogative but don’t be surprised when people around you start avoiding you. Welcome to the real world.



...


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## DragonClaw (Mar 9, 2020)

Because you are new you automatically Take the fall when there's any disagreement? Your opinions can't ever matter or your factual observations are irrelevant?

You talk about my self righteousness, but I don't see how you're any different. 

In fact, you go White Knight for somebody that Obviously doesn't even care about the job anymore rather than somebody who's actually trying to be a good patient provider.It's pretty astounding

Edit: I'm not new to jobs.  I'm new to the field. I was a manager at my old job and I didn't have any major issues with anyone.  Prior to my promotion,  my peers and supervisors liked me.  

The old "Don't speak because you'll die alone" doesn't work on me.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 9, 2020)

Lol, @DragonClaw have you ever heard the expression “you’re missing the forest for the trees”?

Your emotions seems to get the better of you every time. I think it’s more a (juvenile) character flaw than a generational gap, but for the love of God just listen for once.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 9, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> Lol, @DragonClaw have you ever heard the expression “you’re missing the forest for the trees”?
> 
> Your emotions seems to get the better of you every time. I think it’s more a (juvenile) character flaw than a generational gap, but for the love of God just listen for once.



I keep asking what it is y'all are so upset about and I can't a clear answer. 

Because what,  he's got a red patch? That makes him right?


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 9, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I keep asking what it is y'all are so upset about and I can't a clear answer.
> 
> Because what,  he's got a red patch? That makes him right?


I took the “LOL” approach to your reply and more often than not shoot for the “cool breeze” approach. Ain’t nobody mad, lol you just don’t listen.

Hearing and listening are two different concepts, but I suppose even in 2020 some concepts still can’t be taught via the interwebs.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> I took the “LOL” approach to your reply and more often than not shoot for the “cool breeze” approach. Ain’t nobody mad, lol you just don’t listen.
> 
> Hearing and listening are two different concepts, but I suppose even in 2020 some concepts still can’t be taught via the interwebs.



Cool breeze?

And yeah,  I'll agree.  Pot, kettle on this incident


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## VentMonkey (Mar 10, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Cool breeze?


GTS...


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## Tigger (Mar 10, 2020)

A probationary period is essential, I would never argue against that. All of the reasons that everyone have described as to why the probie year is important are valid, though if there is work to do be done and you're in the chair with your feet up you should be getting some chewing no matter how long you've been on (which fortunately happens here).

Continuing to keep members on a probationary period following the end of their taskbook and sign off by all the officers in the station/battalion is tradition that needs to find its way out. If you want people to contribute, silencing them for a year plus is not how you make that happen. Lots of people get into this job and "get it" pretty quick, let those folks contribute fully at this point and not wait for some arbitrary timeframe to pass by.


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## FiremanMike (Mar 10, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I keep asking what it is y'all are so upset about and I can't a clear answer.
> 
> Because what,  he's got a red patch? That makes him right?



No, you cant find a clear answer *that you want to hear.*

While this isn’t unique to the current generation, it’s certainly more pronounced in an era where everyone is right and no one has the right to tell you that you’re wrong.. 

There‘s a meme going around with two people staring at a 6 from opposite ends, one sees a 9, the other sees a 6.. The original captain is that both are right, because changing your perspective changes what you see.. All warm and feels good.. I prefer the modified version of that meme that came out later, which crosses that caption out and  essentially say: no, one of them is wrong,  someone painted either a 9 or a 6 on the ground for a specific reason, but no one wants to look deeper to figure out the truth, they only want their own opinion to be right.


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 10, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> No, you cant find a clear answer *that you want to hear.*


hold on... so you actually think that this behavior is acceptable?


DragonClaw said:


> A medic who would refuse more than 2 calls per shift.  A medic who aggressively hated the job and bring a medic.  A medic who left a messy truck and didn't want to clean anything.  A medic who leaves the truck with barely any gas (I was driving,  so yeah we stopped for gas as to not leave an empty truck for the next crew).
> 
> I heard him watching a TV show for most of the shift and when asking job related questions,  was ignored or got an incomplete answer that wasn't sufficient.
> 
> ...


This is the type of entitlement I was talking about.  poor attitude, lack of professionalism, refusing to go on a call, would rather watch TV than help the new guy with job related questions....  and an EMT-I who doesn't understand how to auscultate a BP, and ignored the new guy who reported an issue, and then got mad at him when she found the issue.... For the record, I have no issues with the message chair, provided it didn't take the ambulance OOS or prevent them from doing their job.

The sound of hypocrisy is deafening.  If the new guy does any of this, he's wrong, but it's OK for the old guy to do it, because he's not new.  I'll repeat what I said earlier: want to be like old guys, which is why many of these poor behaviors continue.  And once the new guy is accepted into the old guy circle, the cycle continues.

I am not saying @DragonClaw is right, and there are three sides to every story (and I have seen senior employees do similar things to newer employees)..... But just because you have been there longer, doesn't mean you don't have to act like a professional and train to be the best provider and employee that they can, because they will take 10% of your good habits, and 90% of your bad ones.



Tigger said:


> Continuing to keep members on a probationary period following the end of their taskbook and sign off by all the officers in the station/battalion is tradition that needs to find its way out.


yeah, that's stupid.  if the officers say you are ready, why keep holding you back?


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## FiremanMike (Mar 10, 2020)

DrParasite said:


> hold on... so you actually think that this behavior is acceptable?



I'm saying that the story is probably exaggerated and is only being told from the perspective of the poster.  If we were to look into this and add the perspective of the other people she's describing, we'd probably get a different answer, and the truth of what is actually occurring is somewhere in the middle.

Sure, if that's played out exactly as described, then it's unacceptable, but 20 years of working in this business leads me to view those claims with skepticism.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> I'm saying that the story is probably exaggerated and is only being told from the perspective of the poster.  If we were to look into this and add the perspective of the other people she's describing, we'd probably get a different answer, and the truth of what is actually occurring is somewhere in the middle.
> 
> Sure, if that's played out exactly as described, then it's unacceptable, but 20 years of working in this business leads me to view those claims with skepticism.



I may be many things,  but I am not a liar,  nor do I exaggerate for "believability" 

I've been here a bit and I could leave out or make up things,  but I would hope by now y'all would realize I don't.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 10, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I may be many things,  but I am not a liar,  nor do I exaggerate for "believability"
> 
> I've been here a bit and I could leave out or make up things,  but I would hope by now y'all would realize I don't.



Look, I've been doing this a long time.  I've heard hundreds of these "he/she doesn't do anything.. he/she refuses to fuel the truck" and all the way up to sensationalism like "he/she refuses to take more than 2 runs per shift".  These stories always have another side and are almost never as sensational as they sound in their original telling or when the event originally occurred.

I have an even more unique perspective on things now that I'm on 40-hour and can see all of the crews.  Now, I see a discussion or action played out on a Tuesday and then retold or relived on Wednesday with a completely different ending.


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 10, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Now, I see a discussion or action played out on a Tuesday and then retold or relived on Wednesday with a completely different ending.



And it’s always super dramatic. Fortunately, it’s pretty easy to tell the drama queens from the rest pretty early on and actively avoid them. Just smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> And it’s always super dramatic. Fortunately, it’s pretty easy to tell the drama queens from the rest pretty early on and actively avoid them. Just smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.



What does that mean about the days of the week?


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## DrParasite (Mar 10, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> What does that mean about the days of the week?


He means that the stories change the further away from the "incident time and date of occurrence," generally based on the user's perspective.  They get embellished, memories get skewed, and details are omitted.   It's even worse when the old guys are complaining about the new kids, and how a simple misunderstand turns into a potentially career derailing rumor about clinical competence, especially when management hears about it and doesn't bother to investigate and just takes the rumor at face value.

I'm not saying that's what happening here, but it is a common thing.


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## jgmedic (Mar 10, 2020)

@DragonClaw, here's the problem, you presented behavior that is unacceptable of any provider, medic, EMT, of any experience. However, those of us who have been around a while have seen this story before. Some brand new EMT criticizing the behavior or skills of someone who, 1. is of a higher rank, 2. has many more years of experience. More often that not, it comes down to that person not understanding what's going on. I'm not saying that is you, or what you were doing. Also, taking any issue to management is a really good way to make sure you have a hard time getting along with anyone. Unless it's a life or death situation, you handle it yourselves. You work for AMR, right? AMR could care less about you or your partner, giving that company a reason to discipline anyone is not a good idea, unless like I said it's a matter of life and death.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

jgmedic said:


> @DragonClaw, here's the problem, you presented behavior that is unacceptable of any provider, medic, EMT, of any experience. However, those of us who have been around a while have seen this story before. Some brand new EMT criticizing the behavior or skills of someone who, 1. is of a higher rank, 2. has many more years of experience. More often that not, it comes down to that person not understanding what's going on. I'm not saying that is you, or what you were doing. Also, taking any issue to management is a really good way to make sure you have a hard time getting along with anyone. Unless it's a life or death situation, you handle it yourselves. You work for AMR, right? AMR could care less about you or your partner, giving that company a reason to discipline anyone is not a good idea, unless like I said it's a matter of life and death.



Y'all really think I went to management as an "I'll show you" because my feeling were hurt? Ha. That I'm trying to prove anything?

I did not understand what was going on and her refused to explain anything. It's not in our training or protocol. I didn't name him in the incident until the sup made me.

Even when the intermediate publicly berated  me and yelled at me in the hospital over the oxygen, with everything she did on shift , even mocked me about being able to auscultate a blood pressure  I did not even mention that to supervision. Because I'm not trying to create trouble and it's not something that needed to be addressed really


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## jgmedic (Mar 10, 2020)

Did you ask anyone else? Your FTO?, Another employee who might have insight? I've never heard of an AMR op where you can straight out refuse calls for anything other than fatigue, injury, or mechanical. Maybe yours is the exception. I think you got an a-hole partner. Welcome to AMR, they're everywhere. But in my experience, everyone knows about them and will tell you the best way to deal. People who yell at newbies generally do it because it's how they were treated which is BS.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

I'm glad to hear that once I have experience, anything I do is passable. I'll make sure to be especially aggressive with the trainees.

Sarcasm. 




jgmedic said:


> Did you ask anyone else? Your FTO?, Another employee who might have insight? I've never heard of an AMR op where you can straight out refuse calls for anything other than fatigue, injury, or mechanical. Maybe yours is the exception. I think you got an a-hole partner. Welcome to AMR, they're everywhere. But in my experience, everyone knows about them and will tell you the best way to deal. People who yell at newbies generally do it because it's how they were treated which is BS.



I mean,  not that an FTO can't teach me anything now.  But I'm cleared from training,  have been.  I'm not on a truck with one regularly. 

And no,  you can't refuse.  I haven't heard him refuse to take a call personally,  he just violently announced that to me and he'd beat his partners @$$ if we tried to bonus (take like 5 calls).

Yeah and I've not heard anything good about this guy. 

But since I'm new,  must be me.  Darn basics.  Just wanting to do their job and do it right.


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## FiremanMike (Mar 10, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I'm glad to hear that once I have experience, anything I do is passable. I'll make sure to be especially aggressive with the trainees.
> 
> Sarcasm.
> 
> ...



You have decades of experience between multiple people trying to talk you down off your ledge here and you come back even more aggressive than your previous posts?

I think we're done here..


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> You have decades of experience between multiple people trying to talk you down off your ledge here and you come back even more aggressive than your previous posts?
> 
> I think we're done here..



Talk me off a ledge? With pitchforks?


----------



## StCEMT (Mar 10, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> You have decades of experience between multiple people trying to talk you down off your ledge here and you come back even more aggressive than your previous posts?
> 
> I think we're done here..


It's fair to separate her complaint of her partners demeanor vs what's realistically an appropriate way to run the call. He can be a twat, but correct that rushing isn't the best approach. We've all met people who are good at what they do, but absolute ****s to be around.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

StCEMT said:


> It's fair to separate her complaint of her partners demeanor vs what's realistically an appropriate way to run the call. He can be a twat, but correct that rushing isn't the best approach. We've all met people who are good at what they do, but absolute ****s to be around.



I'm not going to adamantly saying running hot was the right call. But refusing protocol and what the sup expects and shrugging off my questions because I had no idea what was going on? Not cool.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 10, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I'm not going to adamantly saying running hot was the right call. But refusing protocol and what the sup expects and shrugging off my questions because I had no idea what was going on? Not cool.


Quit beating a dead horse. No one wants to deal with that person anymore than a burn out. I created this thread for insight from the vast array of generations on this forum. Can we keep it somewhat on track? 

In the words of one of my generations favorite rappers: "It ain't all about you..."


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## jgmedic (Mar 10, 2020)

I wouldn't want anyone volunteering me for calls either, esp BS IFT's.  Just know if you're with him, not a bonus day. FTO's should still answer your questions even when you're cleared from training. So it sounds like this guy is just your division problem child. He'll get his.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 10, 2020)

😄👋


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 10, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


>



Is that your version of “Bye, Felicia” ?


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> Is that your version of “Bye, Felicia” ?



Maybe it's "Okay zoomer" 🤔


----------



## luke_31 (Mar 10, 2020)

jgmedic said:


> I wouldn't want anyone volunteering me for calls either, esp BS IFT's.  Just know if you're with him, not a bonus day. FTO's should still answer your questions even when you're cleared from training. So it sounds like this guy is just your division problem child. He'll get his.


@DragonClaw. This right here is really good advice. We’ve all been with people who don’t make the job easy and sometimes the best option isn’t to do anything at all. Just sit back and finish the shift and hope that you don’t get paired with them again too soon.


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## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

luke_31 said:


> @DragonClaw. This right here is really good advice. We’ve all been with people who don’t make the job easy and sometimes the best option isn’t to do anything at all. Just sit back and finish the shift and hope that you don’t get paired with them again too soon.



And let his laziness stop me from doing my job the best I can? It seems like... admitting defeat 

That when you get to a hard choice or disagreements,  you give in because it's easier than fighting to do what is right. 

I've had to get adamant with nurses sometimes about being a pt advocate. And it's sad when you know you leave,  the staff probably isn't going to care about them anymore. 

When they firmly grasp you hand and look you in the eye and give you a genuine thank you for the short time they were your pt.  It's worth it.

I don't regret taking the dementia lady's hand that had a lobster grip.  Yeah that hurt,  but she just wanted someone to hold onto and she was scared. 

Do what's right,  you know? It's hard to just callous myself into not caring and I don't think I should.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 10, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> Is that your version of “Bye, Felicia” ?


That’s my smile and wave, dudes.
I’m not wasting my time on this anymore. Dragon will learn the hard way in due time when no one wants to work with her.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 10, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> That’s my smile and wave, dudes.
> I’m not wasting my time on this anymore. Dragon will learn the hard way in due time when no one wants to work with her.



Funny.  Most nights I pick up a shift I get a solid handshake a look in the eye and a "Good working with you"

My partner and I get along well so far. 

Hmm


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Funny.  Most nights I pick up a shift I get a solid handshake a look in the eye and a "Good working with you"
> 
> My partner and I get along well so far.
> 
> Hmm


I mean, the dude _is_ a mid-level provider who’s a former flight paramedic, has been on this forum longer than I, and is generally helpful to people on here.

With due respect, you seem like you might be a bit of a narcissist. We all get it, you worked with a dilhole. Get over it.

For thee last time, can we please move on from your personal strife. I’m not saying the occasional venting isn’t warranted, but stay on track, ya?


----------



## jgmedic (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> And let his laziness stop me from doing my job the best I can? It seems like... admitting defeat
> 
> That when you get to a hard choice or disagreements,  you give in because it's easier than fighting to do what is right.
> 
> ...


I literally never said you shouldn't advocate for your patients. I have done and still do the things you said you did for the past fifteen years because that's the type of medic and person I want to be. Just like you I've worked with partners that shouldnt be on the box anymore. His laziness shouldn't stop you from being a good provider. Just learn to pick your battles. In fact I would wager the BS that EMT-I put you through is a bigger issue than your medic.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> I mean, the dude _is_ a mid-level provider who’s a former flight paramedic, has been on this forum longer than I, and is generally helpful to people on here.
> 
> With due respect, you seem like you might be a bit of a narcissist. We all get it, you worked with a dilhole. Get over it.
> 
> For thee last time, can we please move on from your personal strife. I’m not saying the occasional venting isn’t warranted, but stay on track, ya?



Not to get smart,  but isn't this a prime example of the topic?

I feel pushed aside and invalidated. Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his side,  but much of what I said was direct observation or quoting him.

But it can't be him,  it's me.

That seems to be a theme and that is something to note. Not because I'll have an epiphany and realize I'm wrong,  but many people just refuse to take me seriously or at face value.

It's very common for me as a younger person to be ignored by those that are older.  When I've been standing or waiting in line, waited to be seated at a restaurant or anything.  I get passed over. 

"Next person", and they look over me, past me,  and gesture to someone behind me to move up. 

The level of disrespect is high and frequent.  So yeah,  I'm a little irked that those among my profession take that same attitude. They forgo a professional demeanor for a partiality in favor of someone obviously unfit for the job.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

jgmedic said:


> I literally never said you shouldn't advocate for your patients. I have done and still do the things you said you did for the past fifteen years because that's the type of medic and person I want to be. Just like you I've worked with partners that shouldnt be on the box anymore. His laziness shouldn't stop you from being a good provider. Just learn to pick your battles. In fact I would wager the BS that EMT-I put you through is a bigger issue than your medic.



And if the pt really did need more rapid transport? I don't trust the guy to make the decision that's best for the pt. 

And yeah ,  even with all his apathy, I'm still going to pull my weight and his.  

The EMTI actually snapped a nurse because the nurse said she needed to be comforted,  that she was a sensitive pt that needed reassurance. She intimidated the nurse. I saw it in her eyes. 

She scoffed "*I don't do comforting*"

Me: "What's wrong with taking care of your pt?"

She rolled her eyes "That's what *you're* for. You'll learn eventually"

You might be right about who is worse.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

I was honestly looking more for generalizations about the differences in generations and how it plays into all of us in the field. Good. Bad. Indifferent.

But you’re right about one thing, no one can—nor will—convince some people that they are sometimes, in fact, wrong.

Or worse, that they can still stand to grow from their own behaviors. It epitomizing stagnation.

I do like the upbringing theory shared by many in this thread. I don’t think it was my generation that taught me to think before I speak. To try and keep an open mind. Nah, that was all dad.

I’m sure several generations before and after have since, and will continue to experience this—good parenting.

We all have good and bad days, weeks, months, years. I’ve worked with the dilhole, and been the dilhole. Am I proud of that? No, but if I wasn’t the slightest bit introspective I could not possibly admit this.

People like that can teach us what we shouldn’t be, and oftentimes we end up that way before we know it, unintentionally. Heck, it taught me.

FWIW, generations aren’t all that important to me in the workplace. 

And I typically make it a habit to give whatever EMT I may work with on occasion one of those little helicopter pins people seem to bug about pending their demeanor and ethics at the end of our shifts. It’s all unbeknownst to them and is also my way of showing mutual respect.

Maybe _that_ is a generational thing.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Not to get smart,  but isn't this a prime example of the topic?
> 
> I feel pushed aside and invalidated. *Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.*
> 
> ...



Enough with the woe is me, earlier in the thread you said this guy refused to take more than 2 calls, later in the thread you clarified that he just “threatened“ everyone if they tried to jump extra calls..  Would you not consider that exaggeration?  I already said I’ve seen these drama shows play out hundreds of times, and this one is already starting to unravel exactly the same as way as they do every single time..

Everyone in this thread has been through what you're talking about.  Many of us have been on both sides of that story.  People are trying to express to you have to navigate that from their own personal experience.  You are rejecting that insight because you think your situation is unique, and you really need to fully grasp that it's not.

Tell you what, every response you get is met with a “no you’re wrong and I’m right because...” from you..  So why don’t you just tell us what answer you want from us so we can satiate your desire to be righteous in your scenario and we can move on..


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Not to get smart,  but isn't this a prime example of the topic?
> 
> I feel pushed aside and invalidated. Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.
> 
> ...









If @DragonClaw was in her 60s, with 20 years of experience, would you still be blowing her off?  What if she was in her 60s, and just retired from a long career in the military, and this was her retirement job..... would you still think she need to sit down and shut up?

Listen, I'm not saying she's right or wrong, but you can't deny that because of her age and because she belongs to a certain generation, her perspective is being either ignored completely or told she's wrong.

Maybe she's a a whiny EMT, who doesn't realize what she doesn't know.... or maybe she is bright eyed and bushy tailed, and wants to be the best provider she can, and was stuck with a ****ty paramedic and EMT-I, who took offense to her positive attitude and wanted to "put her in her place," so she would end up as bitter as they are.  Who knows, who cares.

But the response.... is a typically generational gap response, where the older generation blows off the younger generation, because what do they know......


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

Like I said, I am referring to generalizations, not one specific person. @DrParasite, did I (or anyone) _really_ say “sit down and shut up”?...

Also, yes, regardless of their age and experience, and as stated earlier no one wants to have to deal with an approach where it feels like in spite of your best efforts to help them, said person tramples right over your advice—they asked for—to continue to prove their points, however validated or invalidated that they might feel.

That’s not a generational thing, that’s a tolerance thing. And yeah, I remember you pointing that out earlier, but doesn’t tolerance work both ways?


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 11, 2020)

DrParasite said:


> If @DragonClaw was in her 60s, with 20 years of experience, would you still be blowing her off?  What if she was in her 60s, and just retired from a long career in the military, and this was her retirement job..... would you still think she need to sit down and shut up?
> 
> Listen, I'm not saying she's right or wrong, but you can't deny that because of her age and because she belongs to a certain generation, her perspective is being either ignored completely or told she's wrong.
> 
> ...



Yes, I would, and have.  I have watched these things play out.. While old guys don’t typically complain that older guys treat them like crap for being young, they complain about the other things like “such and such is a piece of crap” and “such and such never stocks the truck” or “I’m done jumping runs for such and such because they never jump runs for me”.

It’s all the same just with different flavors..


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 11, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> Like I said, I am referring to generalizations, not one specific person. @DrParasite, did I (or anyone) _really_ say “sit down and shut up”?...


not in those words.... what was said was:


SandpitMedic said:


> remember that you have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. Use the former more than the latter.





Qulevrius said:


> I’ll reiterate on what I’ve already told you - learn to read others and talk less.


both references to talking less..... 


VentMonkey said:


> Also, yes, regardless of their age and experience, and as stated earlier no one wants to have to deal with an approach where it feels like in spite of your best efforts to help them, said person tramples right over your advice—they asked for—to continue to prove their points, however validated or invalidated that they might feel.


How about this: recognize that her points may be valid, her partners were jerks, and say once they retire or quit, don't do what they did for the next generation?

Yes you and others finally said something along those lines, but not after completely blowing her off, and several people telling her she needed to talk less.  I don't think that same would have been said if she was older or had more time in EMS.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

DrParasite said:


> I don't think that same would have been said if she was older or had more time in EMS.


Or if the history or theme of most of the posts by @DragonClaw did not warrant such a reply.

I’m not trying to hide or deny imperfections brought about by any age gaps, simply trying to understand them.

Having a daughter who will officially be a teen this year herself was enough to pique my curiosity and begin this discussion thread.

Clearly there’s disconnect. Emotions get involved, and then it becomes personal.
That does nothing for the masses. And that is why I finally replied the way that I did. I speak for me here, no one else.

From what I’ve seen here, most of it has been attempts to help that have all but been thwarted by ego alone.

Again, nothing new to this generation, or even to a person’s youth, but at some point the youth we’ve all once had gives way to a choice in life. And yes, that choice is inevitably theirs to make.

But continuing to showcase how someone feels validated has never done much (IMO) for them in the long run in terms of making them a mature, well-adjusted adult that I can think of. Instant gratification? Yes. Long-term value? Eh, that point I’d argue.

For the record, I am not discounting anyone’s opinions or personal experiences as invalid.

Nor do I, or do I think any good-natured person on this forum doesn’t have the best intentions in helping the new people here along.

Sometimes they just can’t help themselves, but lack of humility is not the solution.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

FiremanMike said:


> Enough with the woe is me, earlier in the thread you said this guy refused to take more than 2 calls, later in the thread you clarified that he just “threatened“ everyone if they tried to jump extra calls..  Would you not consider that exaggeration?  I already said I’ve seen these drama shows play out hundreds of times, and this one is already starting to unravel exactly the same as way as they do every single time..
> 
> Everyone in this thread has been through what you're talking about.  Many of us have been on both sides of that story.  People are trying to express to you have to navigate that from their own personal experience.  You are rejecting that insight because you think your situation is unique, and you really need to fully grasp that it's not.
> 
> Tell you what, every response you get is met with a “no you’re wrong and I’m right because...” from you..  So why don’t you just tell us what answer you want from us so we can satiate your desire to be righteous in your scenario and we can move on..



Woe is me?

No. Woe is you.

I'm 23 and plan to be a first responder for a good long time.  So when you act like this and refuse to listen,  refuse to teach,  and have the "be seen and not heard" approach,  it's only hurting you.

You'll get young partners that are lazy and demoralized.  You'll get apathetic partners who are tired of being beaten down. You'll have providers leaving at a record rate muttering under their breath "EMS eats its own". You'll get people that don't care about quality pt care. Maybe you'll get a partner so uncaring and reckless they don't care if they die.

And you reap what you sow.

And honestly,  I'm not going to sit down and take it. I'm going to do what I think is best and not let things "ruin" what I've got going.  Ohhh nooo, the lackluster employee's actions were reported.

Something about that bother you? Might you be upset because you feel like if I was at your company I'd report you? I wouldn't if the right thing was done and there was good pt care.  Ball is in your court after that.

Well, he quite loudly announced his intention to beat people who tried to bonus and it was petty shocking.  So no. Do you really expect for me to fit every detail in one post and never refer to it with new information? Is there some one way door for a new post?

It's not an exaggeration.

You don't believe me because you have the "I've seen it all" so it can't be true.

Next time try, '

Because I'm what? Too new for my ears to work or my eyes to see? That I must be making this stuff up.

Because it's unique? No.  Why do y'all have an obsession with claiming so many people are chasing uniqueness?

Maybe what I was *kinda gave up*, looking for was some human decency.  Respect from provider to provider. Legitimate advice on how to handle a not great partner.

Instead I get pooped on for being a terrible EMT who did this that or the other.  Oh no,  I checked with a sup on an unclear policy.  I really did it this time. I should give up my patch and go home.

The answer isn't a string of words but there approach. And I quickly started to have to dodge what was said, it turned very quickly. 

*You still refuse to believe me*

So,  no.  I don't need anything from you.

The fact you even ask me what I'm looking for means you're so far past the point you've jumped on the bandwagon headed for the hills. Every single one of you who accused without proof is on it.

You're in no position to stop me from doing my job,  so your negativity and sit down and shut up approach isn't going to work.  Maybe that worked with your kids,  but it won't on me.  And until you see me as an adult that contributes to society and an EMT in my own right,  one that actually cares,  then we'll never see eye to eye.  I can't bend my neck up that high and I refuse to.



VentMonkey said:


> Like I said, I am referring to generalizations, not one specific person. @DrParasite, did I (or anyone) _really_ say “sit down and shut up”?...
> 
> Also, yes, regardless of their age and experience, and as stated earlier no one wants to have to deal with an approach where it feels like in spite of your best efforts to help them, said person tramples right over your advice—they asked for—to continue to prove their points, however validated or invalidated that they might feel.
> 
> That’s not a generational thing, that’s a tolerance thing. And yeah, I remember you pointing that out earlier, but doesn’t tolerance work both ways?



Advice generally means you have their best interest in mind.  And blowing my concerns off isn't my best interest.

If you think I'm clashing with the culture of EMS. Good. It's either a rotten culture or a great one.  And this? Not great.

I like to leave a place better than I left it. Leave something for the next generation,  yeah? Something I'm proud of.  And this isn't it.

So again,  I'm not going to "fall in line" to someone who is like that.  My supervisors have been pretty good and understanding.  One of them was furious about the unsecured equipment he left.  Tens of thousands of dollars in equipment,  narcs, other drugs. Anyone could have grabbed it if they were quick or noticed we didn't lock it.

That's a dangeous thing to leave unsecured.

If me continuing to speak tramples your points,  that means only silence could keep them "true". And if they can't stand anything I continue to say,  it wasn't really great advice,  was it?

Tolerance.  I've continued to stand my ground politely and adamantly refuse to accept that certain actions are unacceptable,  regardless of who makes them. 

But y'all doubled down on "tolerance".  "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"



FiremanMike said:


> Yes, I would, and have.  I have watched these things play out.. While old guys don’t typically complain that older guys treat them like crap for being young, they complain about the other things like “such and such is a piece of crap” and “such and such never stocks the truck” or “I’m done jumping runs for such and such because they never jump runs for me”.
> 
> It’s all the same just with different flavors..



I had legitimate complaints about how he treated his partner. And yeah,  didn't even want to put gas in the truck or properly secure equipment as was mentioned earlier.  But what,  you didn't see it?


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

(Split due to length)

I'm not familiar with jumping runs,  though. 




VentMonkey said:


> Or if the history or theme of most of the posts by @DragonClaw did not warrant such a reply.
> 
> I’m not trying to hide or deny imperfections brought about by any age gaps, simply trying to understand them.
> 
> ...



The history? Of what? This thread? My life? 

Regarding the two partners that I didn't like working with because their demeanors,  I had every right to say what I said. If you see something,  say something.  If not,  you're no better than the man who passed by the injured person but didn't stop to help because he was afraid he'd be targeted too. 

It's like you've lost the resolve to do your best,  but still keep the keyboard warrior status fresh. 

"simply trying to understand them."

No.  You're not. 

You're trying to tell people how they should feel. How they're not justified.  How they're too new and too green for their opinion to matter. 

You're not.  You're trying to be validated in how you see things.  That it is people who are "kids" who just won't listen.  They keep talking back and ignoring you as if you've said nothing of value. Maybe you feel as if you've wasted your time and breath and hate how people keep talking back.  You've *already* told then how it is,  but they just refuse it. Seems pointless,  huh?

"From what I’ve seen here, most of it has been attempts to help that have all but been thwarted by ego alone."

"Let me learn about the younger people"
"Runs over them to tell them to move"

Yeah,  ego did get in the way.  You literally asked for this but when it came to the table you didn't recognize it and said "I didn't order this" and sent it back. But again and again it comes back from the kitchen leading to you still not understanding. 

"But continuing to showcase how someone feels validated has never done much (IMO) for them in the long run in terms of making them a mature, well-adjusted adult that I can think of. Instant gratification? Yes. Long-term value? Eh, that point I’d argue."

Oh. Dad...? Is that you?

I'm not in the army,  I don't need feelings issued to me to have them. Among my bosses and peers, I'm considered a serious,  driven yet passionate person who is calm and logical. 

But you throw various things at me as if that makes me any less of a valid person worthy of respect.  

And it doesn't. You can't take what I won't let you. 

And I'm not your daughter.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

@DragonClaw I’m not comparing _you_ specifically to my little ones. Please know that now, keep it light, and not take everything so personal.

Or don’t, really, I don’t care.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> Or don’t, really, I don’t care.



Finally.  The truth


----------



## Qulevrius (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Finally. The truth



Good to see that you feel accomplished  You’ve done everything you could to get to this point, _adamantly_ (you like that word) rejecting our every attempt to reason with, or help you. You’re right, you aren’t our kid hence us not caring anymore.

Never forget that we’re all mad here and you’re the only Torch of Sanity.


----------



## FiremanMike (Mar 11, 2020)

@DragonClaw

My attempts to discuss your experiences so that you may learn from them and from us have given you the latitude to pick apart bits and pieces and blow them up to meet your agenda.  As someone already mentioned in this thread, you are missing the forrest for the trees.  In fact, I think you are REFUSING to see the forest so that you can tell the tree that it's wrong.

*Allow me to be blunt:* If you act at work the way you are acting on this thread, it is no wonder why you are struggling with negative attitudes around you and people who are unwilling to help you.

With that, I am done responding to you.  I realize that you aren't in the state of mind to hear this input and will likely lash out again at me, but I hope that someday you can look back at your posts here as well as the posts of people who have lived through your experiences and reflect on how much you have grown between now and then.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

Guess I’ll just go ahead and add this topic to religion and politics as “things not to discuss while at work.”

I did chuckle at the_ Inigo Montoya_ quote. Undoubtedly my favorite character of that movie.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

The irony of this forum.

I mean,  I guess we're done here.  We both seem to think the others won't listen and are adamantly refusing the truth. 

But we both think we're validated enough to not budge.  That our position is strong and right to be defended. 

I guess that's all that's it's going to be when we think like this.


----------



## Carlos Danger (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I feel pushed aside and invalidated. Some people here would rather believe I've exaggerated than what I said is true.


The reason you feel that way is because that’s exactly what is happening. 

Maybe it’s time to accept that you aren’t going to kept the feedback that you were looking for, and just let it go.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

Remi said:


> The reason you feel that way is because that’s exactly what is happening.
> 
> Maybe it’s time to accept that you aren’t going to kept the feedback that you were looking for, and just let it go.



Yeah.... 

😅


----------



## RocketMedic (Mar 11, 2020)

I find that I seem to crave honest feedback and self-improvement more than my Gen X father


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

Hmm, I don’t think everyone defines validation the same. I thought I’d seen what I would have considered plenty of that on here. So the “let it go” comment came from me after that.

I’ve done nothing to insult you as a provider, or person directly. “Keyboard warrior”, lol that’s a new one. Assuming you know my work ethics? That’s making things way more personal and specific and quite frankly irrelevant.

The last rant you fired off directed at me was actually in reply to @DrParasite, not you. But, out of respect (or so I thought) I tagged you in for insights...not insults.

Am I hurt? Nah, it is what it is.

@FiremanMike hit it on the head with his last post. And no, it isn’t an “us vs. them” world in my mind, but these are people who have been doing things longer, better, and with more education than even myself.

Work-wise I find that invaluable. Life-wise? Eh, I get it, that ain’t what this forum is truly about.


----------



## DragonClaw (Mar 11, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> Hmm, I don’t think everyone defines validation the same. I thought I’d seen what I would have considered plenty of that on here. So the “let it go” comment came from me after that.
> 
> I’ve done nothing to insult you as a provider, or person directly. “Keyboard warrior”, lol that’s a new one. Assuming you know my work ethics? That’s making things way more personal and specific and quite frankly irrelevant.
> 
> ...



As a note,  keyboard warrior has nothing to do with your work ethic.


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> As a note,  keyboard warrior has nothing to do with your work ethic.


Yes, I know. I actually like the title.

I can eat crow with the best of them, however, do prefer mine doused in Tapatio.

I believed I did refer to you as a narcissist, I can understand how that’s offend anyone. For that I will apologize.

But it was meant to be less insulting and more an honest opinion on what I’ve seen from your posts.

Something to consider: none of your replies really offended me to the point of anger or true emotions. I’d bet the same could be said for a few others on here.


----------



## DrParasite (Mar 11, 2020)

My recommendation to @DragonClaw is to just stop talking in this thread.  Not because you are wrong, but because we are beyond the point of diminishing returns on this thread.  You aren't gaining anything, and neither is anyone else.  its become an exercise in futility.

Some people in EMS suck, some people should have been let go long ago, and some experienced veterans should have had their attitudes adjusted years ago... But they (and others) feel they are entitled to act that way because they have been there for so long, and now they won't change.  Go to paramedic school, become an FTO, and show the next generation that you won't act like those two individuals.  Don't tell them that you are better, show them.  Keep doing what you are doing, what your supervisors and management expect you to do, and remember, at the end of the day, you can put work behind you and go home.

This should not be a hill you are willing to die on....


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 11, 2020)

My avatar is actually a no-BS LITERAL keyboard warrior!

“Let me see your war face!”
———————————————————

@DrParasite, are you playing devil’s advocate here by saying that our allusions to use ones mouth less than their ears and eyes when they are new are ill advised?


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> “Let me see your war face!”


----------



## CCCSD (Mar 11, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> View attachment 4807



I’m sure that’s a hurtful post and will trigger someone...


----------



## Seirende (Mar 11, 2020)

One thing I've seen change with time is the acceptance of mental health struggles as valid and serious


----------



## VentMonkey (Mar 11, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> I’m sure that’s a hurtful post and will trigger someone...


Hope not. If so, guess I am completely out of touch nowadays.


Seirende said:


> One thing I've seen change with time is the acceptance of mental health struggles as valid and serious


Good. That’s good.


----------



## SandpitMedic (Mar 11, 2020)

Seirende said:


> One thing I've seen change with time is the acceptance of mental health struggles as valid and serious


And socialism!


----------



## Seirende (Mar 11, 2020)

I'm obviously not old enough to have picked up on what it was like before, but from what people have said, there was a lot of stigma or complete misunderstanding of what was going on. There's definitely still stigma and tons of misunderstanding that we have to overcome, but I think the more common mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety are much more accepted and bipolar is getting there slowly. Still have a long ways to go with schizophrenia, DID, and personality disorders, to name a few.


----------



## Peak (Mar 11, 2020)

Seirende said:


> One thing I've seen change with time is the acceptance of mental health struggles as valid and serious



It's a double edged sword though. We've also made some very pathological psychiatric disease and inappropriate social behavior as 'normal' too.


----------



## Seirende (Mar 11, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> And socialism!



That better not have been a socialism as a mental illness joke...


----------



## Seirende (Mar 11, 2020)

Peak said:


> It's a double edged sword though. We've also made some very pathological psychiatric disease and inappropriate social behavior as 'normal' too.



Examples?


----------



## Peak (Mar 11, 2020)

Most of your axis 2 disorders and manifestations of somatoform disorders as things we need to accept instead of treating the mental illness. 

As far as the social bit, have you dealt with the general public? Agression towards calm people who have not wronged you, the acceptance of mediocrity (professionally, socially, financially), the constant perception that the individual is more important that anyone else, lack of responsibility, over dependance on others.


----------



## Seirende (Mar 11, 2020)

Peak said:


> Most of your axis 2 disorders and manifestations of somatoform disorders as things we need to accept instead of treating the mental illness.
> 
> As far as the social bit, have you dealt with the general public? Agression towards calm people who have not wronged you, the acceptance of mediocrity (professionally, socially, financially), the constant perception that the individual is more important that anyone else, lack of responsibility, over dependance on others.



You're using an older edition of the DSM if you're still referring to axes. I personally only know two people who have shared their diagnosis of a personality disorder with me and neither of them acted like it was a something to just accept, although to a certain point you DO have to accept it as what you're working with so that you can be proactive instead of in denial.

I deal with hundreds of members of the general public on a daily basis at my job and I definitely see a lot of inconsiderate people, but they come from all generations.


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## Peak (Mar 12, 2020)

Seirende said:


> You're using an older edition of the DSM if you're still referring to axes. I personally only know two people who have shared their diagnosis of a personality disorder with me and neither of them acted like it was a something to just accept, although to a certain point you DO have to accept it as what you're working with so that you can be proactive instead of in denial.
> 
> I deal with hundreds of members of the general public on a daily basis at my job and I definitely see a lot of inconsiderate people, but they come from all generations.



Axis is still a standard in psychiatric management.

FYI, the DSM is not a holy text. Many psych professionals do not agree with the DSM V over the IV R


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## Seirende (Mar 12, 2020)

Peak said:


> Axis is still a standard in psychiatric management.
> 
> FYI, the DSM is not a holy text. Many psych professionals do not agree with the DSM V over the IV R



As long as we're not going back to the DSM I, amirite?


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## VentMonkey (Mar 12, 2020)

I don’t know what any of this means, but it’s ultimately generational progress, understanding, and respect...kewl.


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## Peak (Mar 12, 2020)

Seirende said:


> As long as we're not going back to the DSM I, amirite?



Unlike prior DSM versions V was developed largely in secret, it turned out that many of the contributors had financial ties to outside entities. It also wasn't forthcoming on where most of the data was actually derived from leading many distrustful of the guidance.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 12, 2020)

Peak said:


> Axis is still a standard in psychiatric management.
> 
> FYI, the DSM is not a holy text. Many psych professionals do not agree with the DSM V over the IV R


Can they bill if they don’t diagnose utilizing the DSM V?


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## Peak (Mar 12, 2020)

SandpitMedic said:


> Can they bill if they don’t diagnose utilizing the DSM V?



You bill based on ICD 10 codes, not the DSM. Think of the DSM like a guide in the same way you would think about ACLS or PALS.


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## Qulevrius (Mar 12, 2020)

Peak said:


> Unlike prior DSM versions V was developed largely in secret, it turned out that many of the contributors had financial ties to outside entities. It also wasn't forthcoming on where most of the data was actually derived from leading many distrustful of the guidance.



Makes sense. There are some useful changes in the V, but from what I’ve seen they renamed a lot of stuff for no apparent reason, and oversimplified a lot as well (sub types of schizophrenia, for instance).


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 12, 2020)

Good to know @Peak. We were taught to utilize the DSM V in our behavioral medicine courses, and to use it in our diagnostic tool box. I hadn’t realized there was such controversy surrounding it, but supposedly a VI is in the works.
(I have no desire to go into psych as a PA, but that was part of our training).


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## RocketMedic (Mar 12, 2020)

I’m triggered!


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## VentMonkey (Mar 13, 2020)

Got off shift this morning, see a car circling my neighborhood probably for the better half of 1-2 hours. Get ready for my run, leave, see the same car driving around. Turn the corner and it’s parked.

I stopped and asked the driver, “Do you live around here?...” Was a younger gal, said she was arguing with her GF, but that she did live around my neighborhood. I’d never seen her or the vehicle. So I asked if I could get a pic of her plates. #Triggered...

She tried peeling out on me, but I still got the pic. At which point she began filming me(?) running away and continuing with my jog.

All the while she was ranting something; dunno, couldn’t hear her through my AirPods. Waved and said, “We don’t need this in our neighborhood...”

Mind you, in my late teens/ early 20’s I too was a handful. Maybe I am out of touch, idk. Just found it somewhat ironic and pertinent here.

I mean, my wife’s car was broken into in front of our house years ago. Sorry if I want something better for us and our kids (shrugging)?...


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## Qulevrius (Mar 13, 2020)

I feel like internet access and electronic gadgets should be age locked. Wouldn’t help 100% but at least reduce today’s horror show.


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## CCCSD (Mar 13, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> Got off shift this morning, see a car circling my neighborhood probably for the better half of 1-2 hours. Get ready for my run, leave, see the same car driving around. Turn the corner and it’s parked.
> 
> I stopped and asked the driver, “Do you live around here?...” Was a younger gal, said she was arguing with her GF, but that she did live around my neighborhood. I’d never seen her or the vehicle. So I asked if I could get a pic of her plates. #Triggered...
> 
> ...



She was looking for crime opportunities by reconning your hood. Keep the pics or forward them to the PD as a suspicious circumstance.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 13, 2020)

CCCSD said:


> She was looking for crime opportunities by reconning your hood. Keep the pics or forward them to the PD as a suspicious circumstance.


Yup. Kept them. Also, FWIW, wasn’t a gen-gap thing IMO. More of a “bad egg” situation. Thanks.


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## CCCSD (Mar 14, 2020)

Never use bad eggs. Unless you’re making green eggs and ham.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 15, 2020)

Qulevrius said:


> I feel like internet access and electronic gadgets should be age locked. Wouldn’t help 100% but at least reduce today’s horror show.


Our kids are not allowed to have a SM account until we cannot stop them, i.e., they’re 18 and are (legal) adults.


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## Qulevrius (Mar 15, 2020)

VentMonkey said:


> Our kids are not allowed to have a SM account until we cannot stop them, i.e., they’re 18 and are (legal) adults.


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## Seirende (Mar 25, 2020)

One thing that I'm curious about is for those of you who have negative views of generations older or younger than yours, how isolated in your generation bubble are you? Sure you may work with people of different generations, but how often do you sit down and have coffee with people outside your age group?


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## Qulevrius (Mar 25, 2020)

Seirende said:


> One thing that I'm curious about is for those of you who have negative views of generations older or younger than yours, how isolated in your generation bubble are you? Sure you may work with people of different generations, but how often do you sit down and have coffee with people outside your age group?



Quite often, actually. Former coworkers I am still in touch with; it’s a small group of people but I’ve always been selective of who I interact with.


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## Old Tracker (Mar 25, 2020)

I'm an "old."  I'm 70 (just started this line of retirement bizzy work at 65).  I work with P's that are younger than my youngest kid.  Have no problem communicating with them.  I don't do facebook, etc., but I love the internet and can literally spend hours reading on it or going to a couple of forums.  The age gap shows itself when it comes to politics, as in current events, usually.

The younger crew can't relate to what I did and saw in the Navy, the Border Patrol, or as a fed criminal investigator.  Life will teach them.  If they can adapt and reconcile things the lessons won't be too hard, but if not, I hope their safe room is padded.


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## Phillyrube (Mar 26, 2020)

I retired off the trucks 3 years ago, at 65.  Not by choice, family move to floriduh. Started it all way back as a volunteer outside Philly, then the Philly fire dept.  Joined the navy.  Did 40 years in Virginia EMS.  Mostly volunteer.   That was while I finished a 20 year Navy career, then started a 23 year police career.  Worked a few years post cops as a paid medic.

My biggest reward?   Hearing younger cops say if they get in trouble they want Sarge coming to bail them out.    Young medics saying if they are on a bad call, wanting Rube to come help them out.
I see the new Chief Petty Officers, new firefighters, new cops, new medics.   You know what?   I sleep really well knowing they are out there at night.
No regerts, I had a blast.


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