# Master EMT before going Medic?



## adamNYC (Oct 12, 2014)

I'm at a crossroads. Do I wait for the FDNY medic program, if I even get into FDNY in the first place, 2-3 years from now--or go to medic school out of pocket in 2016. So here's my question:

*How necessary is it to master 911 BLS/EMT work before going to medic school?
*
I've heard guys give advice on here such as "If you're waiting for FDNY to call you, don't waste time and do nothing. Goto medic school"

I've also heard guys who've been an EMT for a few years and then went Medic and said that's the best way since you get to master EMT/BLS work first and you can better understand Medic work.

I find it interesting how this is the case in EMS, compared to nursing for example (I'm a CNA)... An RN doesn't have to be an LPN first, nor does an LPN have to be a CNA first.

Compared to the military, a Lieutenant leading a platoon doesn't need to be a Sergeant first either.

I'd like to hear from both sides of Medics who got into medic school with minimal EMT experience (few months of txp and maybe 911) and from Medics who were 911 EMTs for a few years prior to medic school.

I'm about to turn 30 next year and feel a strong sense of urgency to not be making under $20/hr.

Thanks


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## CodeBru1984 (Oct 12, 2014)

I tried the EMT-->Medic School thing at one point with little experience and wasn't successful. I don't plan on reattempting medic school until at least 2016. I currently have 1+ years of experience on a transport unit under my belt and just relocated to a new system where I can gain more valuable experience prior to attempting medic school.


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## STXmedic (Oct 12, 2014)

I went into medic with zero experience, and finished at the top of my class. Actually, out of our top 4, only one had any experience. I'm not saying you need no experience to do well in class, but it's certainly feasible to do well with no experience.

Ultimately it's going to be up to you. Are you a good student? Do you learn the material well? Does this stuff "click" for you? 

Is _quality_ experience going to help you in school? Sure. Is it mandatory? Absolutely not.

Search this topic in here. It gets debated fairly often with some very varying, passionate views.


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## adamNYC (Oct 12, 2014)

I tried searching multiple words and no luck. Any suggestions? And thanks STX for that response it gives me confidence to proceed.


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## STXmedic (Oct 12, 2014)

Hmm... You're right... It was a bit harder than I thought to find those previous threads... Here are two, though I know there are many more. If anyone else knows where to find them, feel free to chime in 

http://emtlife.com/threads/how-long-were-you-an-emt-b-before-paramedic.37454/

Kind of along similar lines with good discussion:
http://emtlife.com/threads/should-emt-even-be-a-prerequisite-to-paramedic.32061/


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## Medic Tim (Oct 12, 2014)

Experience can help but it can also hurt you in some ways. 
The biggest help is from an operations standpoint. Talking To pts, managing a scene ,etc.
The problem with experience is it isn't always good experience. It doesn't take long to "master" BLS skills. Contrary to popular belief you won't forget BLS because you are training in ALS. You will perform what is needed at the appropriate time. Any decent program will enable you and prepare you with little to no experience. 
I worked as a BLS medic (about an AEMT in the USA) for 3 years before going back to school. I really wish I had not waited that long.


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## Gurby (Oct 12, 2014)

adamNYC said:


> I'm about to turn 30 next year and feel a strong sense of urgency to not be making under $20/hr.



May have picked the wrong field then...



Medic Tim said:


> The biggest help is from an operations standpoint.



+1.  It does take some time to get the hang of not sounding like an idiot over the radio or when giving report.


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## gotbeerz001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> The problem with experience is it isn't always good experience.



This.


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## adamNYC (Oct 12, 2014)

Gurby in NYC medics make over $20/hr


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## gotbeerz001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Gurby said:


> May have picked the wrong field then....



That is area dependent. 
Medics in my area start at $21/hr and have 13 annual step increases to $33/hr for day shifters. Add night differential and you make $43/hr.


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## Gurby (Oct 12, 2014)

gotshirtz001 said:


> That is area dependent.
> Medics in my area start at $21/hr and have 13 annual step increases to $33/hr for day shifters. Add night differential and you make $43/hr.



I would expect NYC medics to make good money because the cost of living is so high... But that's pretty impressive.


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## Chewy20 (Oct 12, 2014)

Gurby said:


> I would expect NYC medics to make good money because the cost of living is so high... But that's pretty impressive.


 
Our medics start at 45k and towards end of career are at 80k for a base salary. A lot more if you decide to become a Captain, Commander, etc. That's working 2-3 days a week. All depends where you work. Some agencies like to take care of their own!


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## STXmedic (Oct 12, 2014)

I think in y'all's  case, it's bribery...  Lol


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## adamNYC (Oct 12, 2014)

Well it looks like medic school starts January and when I get EMT-certified in November it only makes sense to work a good year till Jan 2016. I only hope I can get in on doing 911 work after doing 6 months of IFT/Txp.


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## CodeBru1984 (Oct 12, 2014)

adamNYC said:


> Well it looks like medic school starts January and when I get EMT-certified in November it only makes sense to work a good year till Jan 2016. I only hope I can get in on doing 911 work after doing 6 months of IFT/Txp.


Have you thought about volunteering your time with the Central Park Medical Unit as a means to gaining valuable 911 experience?

http://www.cpmu.com


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## adamNYC (Oct 12, 2014)

There's a couple other local volly crews in my area I'm considering in addition to paid private companies that I'll be applying to. Some will start one off with transport for several months then get transferred to their 911 group


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## Christopher (Oct 13, 2014)

adamNYC said:


> I'm at a crossroads. Do I wait for the FDNY medic program, if I even get into FDNY in the first place, 2-3 years from now--or go to medic school out of pocket in 2016. So here's my question:
> 
> *How necessary is it to master 911 BLS/EMT work before going to medic school?
> *
> ...



The only places where it is necessary to "master" being an EMT prior to paramedic school is if the educational programs are subpar. Programs which place any requirements other than your standard reading/writing/arithmetic goals are probably trying to make up for a lack of depth of content/instruction.

The educational stepping stones in EMS are arbitrary and unnecessary. You'll be fine!


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## MackTheKnife (Oct 13, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> I went into medic with zero experience, and finished at the top of my class. Actually, out of our top 4, only one had any experience. I'm not saying you need no experience to do well in class, but it's certainly feasible to do well with no experience.
> 
> Ultimately it's going to be up to you. Are you a good student? Do you learn the material well? Does this stuff "click" for you?
> 
> ...


STX is spot on! If it clicks for you, then it works for you. The CNA-LPN-RN analogy answered your own question.


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## joshrunkle35 (Oct 13, 2014)

I went from EMT straight to paramedic. I think I finished EMT with a 96% and paramedic with a 92%. I had zero issues being "unexperienced" when I got in the field. I was upfront about being new, people were weary of me for a few weeks, and I made some tough calls correctly (particularly, first on scene at a mass casualty incident) and no one ever gave me crap about being "green" ever again. 

Now, that is my singular experience. I learned very well from books and lectures and labs. Others learn much better from experience. (But, as mentioned earlier, it has to be quality books, lectures, labs and quality experience) EVERYONE has a unique experience. A really good indicator is to see how you do in Basic. If you finish with like an 80%, I'd be cautious about going straight to medic. In my singular experience, basic was very easy for me, and medic was very hard. The amount of time I had to re-read and lookup concepts was almost nothing in basic, and was very, very long in medic. 

A very good indicator is to find a teacher during basic that knows you well and that you get along with well, and one that doesn't have a bias one way or the other, and simply ask them how they feel you would do. They will know how the schooling in the area works, they will know how you are as a student, and they might even tell you which paths/programs are best for you, or suggest places you can work or volunteer for experience.


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## MackTheKnife (Oct 13, 2014)

Great comments overall. Basic and medic were easy for me- no brag, just fact. But everyone is different. You know how you are, and should have an idea how'll you'll do.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Christopher said:


> The only places where it is necessary to "master" being an EMT prior to paramedic school is if the educational programs are subpar. Programs which place any requirements other than your standard reading/writing/arithmetic goals are probably trying to make up for a lack of depth of content/instruction.
> 
> The educational stepping stones in EMS are arbitrary and unnecessary. You'll be fine!


You show a lack of appreciation of "clinical experience".  The  best medical education programs only give you half the puzzle pieces to a complete EMS professional.  Working in the street puts everything together and adds skills and knowledge a classroom is incapable of.  
Get the most out of every patient contact.  An experience pre-requisite is common and makes better medics. 
The medics who never worked as EMT's are consistently weak medics.


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## Medic Tim (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> You show a lack of appreciation of "clinical experience".  The  best medical education programs only give you half the puzzle pieces to a complete EMS professional.  Working in the street puts everything together and adds skills and knowledge a classroom is incapable of.
> Get the most out of every patient contact.  An experience pre-requisite is common and makes better medics.
> The medics who never worked as EMT's are consistently weak medics.


A quality program properly educates and trains medics in the classroom, hospital and field.
Experience can be great... If it is the right kind of experience. 

Up where I am, EMT doesn't exist. The minimum to work on an ambulance is a 1-2 year primary care paramedic course(BLS) They do very well in the field with having no "prior medical experience"


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## STXmedic (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> The medics who never worked as EMT's are consistently weak medics.


 Thanks for letting me know how weak of a medic I was. I wasn't sure of myself before 

If you're consistently seeing this problem, your paramedic program is apparently sub-standard.


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## Carlos Danger (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> An experience pre-requisite is common and makes better medics.
> The medics who never worked as EMT's are consistently weak medics.



Source?

I didn't think so.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> Thanks for letting me know how weak of a medic I was. I wasn't sure of myself before
> 
> If you're consistently seeing this problem, your paramedic program is apparently sub-standard.




If the shoe fits brother.

The more experience I get as a Medic the more i realize how little I knew.   You sound awfully overconfident for someone with so many years experience.  
Training is an important foundation.  Clinical Experience makes great medics!


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Remi said:


> Source?
> 
> I didn't think so.


All NYC medic programs have an experience pre-req.  The second statement is an opinion based on 18 years of NYC 911 experience.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Remi said:


> Source?
> 
> I didn't think so.




"I didn't think so"... 

??? ... how civil.


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## Carlos Danger (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> All NYC medic programs have an experience pre-req.  The second statement is an opinion based on 18 years of NYC 911 experience.



So you are generalizing one person's experience in one EMS system to the entire universe?

FWIW, I had no experience as an EMT prior to paramedic school. And I turned out alright. Most do just fine. Paramedicine is not rocket science.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> Thanks for letting me know how weak of a medic I was. I wasn't sure of myself before
> 
> If you're consistently seeing this problem, your paramedic program is apparently sub-standard.




Our training might be "sub-standard".

This is a possibility.  

Unlikely however.  Medicine is a practice and training / education is continuous... because medical training is only the BEGINING.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Remi said:


> So you are generalizing one person's experience in one EMS system to the entire universe?
> 
> FWIW, I had no experience as an EMT prior to paramedic school. And I turned out alright. Most do just fine. Paramedicine is not rocket science.


sorry bro, I was replying to a specific comment.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> A quality program properly educates and trains medics in the classroom, hospital and field.
> Experience can be great... If it is the right kind of experience.
> 
> Up where I am, EMT doesn't exist. The minimum to work on an ambulance is a 1-2 year primary care paramedic course(BLS) They do very well in the field with having no "prior medical experience"


A 1 to 2 year BLS course? Thats awesome!  Where is this?


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## Medic Tim (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> A 1 to 2 year BLS course? Thats awesome!  Where is this?


Canada
The scope is similar to an AEMT in the USA.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> Canada
> The scope is similar to an AEMT in the USA.




Is that the standard for all of Canada because that sounds great?


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> Canada
> The scope is similar to an AEMT in the USA.




How is the pay compared to a nurse?


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## Medic Tim (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> Is that the standard for all of Canada because that sounds great?


Pretty much. 2 or 3 provinces license EMRs (about the EMT-B in the USA) and they are used on transfer trucks and very rural/remote areas .

Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS)is another 1-2 years
critical care paramedic another 1-2 year after ALS.

Edit
We have 1 province were BLS is a 3 year course but they only have ALS in one of their major cities as a pilot project. Not sure if ther scope is higher.




Gotham Medic said:


> How is the pay compared to a nurse?


Starting pay depends on the province but the lowest starting pay for BLS I have seen recently is 25/hour up 35/hour.

ALS can start at 28-50 an hour.

The company I work for has advanced care paramedics and RNs on the same pay band.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> Pretty much. 2 or 3 provinces license EMRs (about the EMT-B in the USA) and they are used on transfer trucks and very rural/remote areas .
> 
> Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS)is another 1-2 years
> critical care paramedic another 1-2 year after ALS.
> ...




Outstanding.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> Pretty much. 2 or 3 provinces license EMRs (about the EMT-B in the USA) and they are used on transfer trucks and very rural/remote areas .
> 
> Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS)is another 1-2 years
> critical care paramedic another 1-2 year after ALS.
> ...




Sounds like the right idea.


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## STXmedic (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> If the shoe fits brother.
> 
> The more experience I get as a Medic the more i realize how little I knew.   You sound awfully overconfident for someone with so many years experience.
> Training is an important foundation.  Clinical Experience makes great medics!


I just had nearly six years if confidence completely stolen by a single forum post...

I wouldn't say I'm overconfident, but I am confident that I'm a capable provider. Apparently there's an ability you develop when you get old that allows you to be able to judge a person's abilities without knowing a thing about them. Luckily I'm not there yet.

I agree that experience makes someone better (assuming its good experience, and not doing the same thing incorrectly over and over again). I am a much better medic than I was when I first started. That doesn't mean I was incompetent and incapable when I first graduated. And my classmates that did have experience certainly didn't seem any better prepared than I. 

As long as we're throwing around anecdotal opinions: I've had a harder time training and breaking bad habits of medics with previous EMT experience than I've had training inexperienced new medics. So by your logic, that must mean all medics with previous EMT experience are terrible providers. Sounds like you worked as an EMT before you were a medic... Hmm...


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Medic Tim said:


> Pretty much. 2 or 3 provinces license EMRs (about the EMT-B in the USA) and they are used on transfer trucks and very rural/remote areas .
> 
> Advanced Care Paramedic (ALS)is another 1-2 years
> critical care paramedic another 1-2 year after ALS.
> ...




Was I overbearing in trying to stress the value of experience?

In NYC the jump from BLS to ALS is big.  I supervise FDNY EMT'S and Paramedics.  I see the difference between my medics with and without a strong BLS background.  I see differences in bedside manner, clinical judgement, working as a team or as a team leader with co-workers, cops, nurses and firefighters,  ... and most of all recognizing subtle signs and symptoms.
  You guys seem to get an outstanding foundation.  Maybe you guys have the solution.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> I just had nearly six years if confidence completely stolen by a single forum post...
> 
> I wouldn't say I'm overconfident, but I am confident that I'm a capable provider. Apparently there's an ability you develop when you get old that allows you to be able to judge a person's abilities without knowing a thing about them. Luckily I'm not there yet.
> 
> ...




You sound rather insecure about your experience.

Sorry.


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## STXmedic (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> You sound rather insecure about your experience.
> 
> Sorry.


And you make a lot of assumptions. Work on that maybe.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> I just had nearly six years if confidence completely stolen by a single forum post...
> 
> I wouldn't say I'm overconfident, but I am confident that I'm a capable provider. Apparently there's an ability you develop when you get old that allows you to be able to judge a person's abilities without knowing a thing about them. Luckily I'm not there yet.
> 
> ...





STXmedic said:


> I just had nearly six years if confidence completely stolen by a single forum post...
> 
> I wouldn't say I'm overconfident, but I am confident that I'm a capable provider. Apparently there's an ability you develop when you get old that allows you to be able to judge a person's abilities without knowing a thing about them. Luckily I'm not there yet.
> 
> ...





EMT envy.


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## STXmedic (Oct 15, 2014)

Now you're just starting to look like your trolling. Good work, I bit.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> Now you're just starting to look like your trolling. Good work, I bit.




???


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## irishboxer384 (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham why is it 'brilliant' for someone to be limited to BLS for 1-2 years? Think what an MD student covers in those 2 years compared to BLS provision? The idea of kids spending 12 months to get a basic emt qualification is scary frankly (unless they have personal reasons such as other studies/family life etc)...if a person can't take onboard the required EMT knowledge and application in <12 months to work on a daily basis I would question if that person should be qualified to do things such as ....drive a car, eat with a knife and fork or use rudimentary tools and opposable thumbs.

Also yes experience CAN help, but yours is limited to NY 911...do you think you are an authority figure when you don't know what emergency medicine is like in various parts of the US or the world, since you value experience so highly?


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## Jim37F (Oct 15, 2014)

The paramedic school I'm eyeing does require 6 months of EMT work experience on an ambulance, but in my area, it is waayyy to easy for an EMT, even working 911 response, to get 6 months on an ambulance without ever actually doing a full patient assessment and thinking about what treatments are coming up and what the patient needs and so forth. You can very easily just show up with a gurney and wait for the fire medic to say "do this" or "BLS transport to this hospital, adios" and not do anything more than just regurgitate their report to the receiving nurse (without understanding it) and maybe an updated set of vitals. Yet that EMT's experience is equally valid (for the time requirement) as one who actually assesses a patient on a regular basis and has to decide what treatment they need and then give it without waiting for a medic to hold their hand.

So if you're worried about things like whether or not your new medic who wasn't an EMT is still learning how to work a gurney or talk on the radio or whatever other operational detail, well, IMO that stuff isn't exactly rocket scientist, and if a new medic can't learn that during new hire orientation or FTO time, well, I'd be worried about their ability to provide paramedicine and not because they were/weren't an EMT before.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Strong BLS background... Priceless.


irishboxer384 said:


> Gotham why is it 'brilliant' for someone to be limited to BLS for 1-2 years? Think what an MD student covers in those 2 years compared to BLS provision? The idea of kids spending 12 months to get a basic emt qualification is scary frankly (unless they have personal reasons such as other studies/family life etc)...if a person can't take onboard the required EMT knowledge and application in <12 months to work on a daily basis I would question if that person should be qualified to do things such as ....drive a car, eat with a knife and fork or use rudimentary tools and opposable thumbs.
> 
> Also yes experience CAN help, but yours is limited to NY 911...do you think you are an authority figure when you don't know what emergency medicine is like in various parts of the US or the world, since you value experience so highly?




You're making some apples and oranges comparisons bro.

Yes I can ONLY speak about what I've experienced in 18 years of NYC 911.  That is the basis for my opinion.

Medic Tim was describing the basic medic programs in Canada making the point that they try to over come initial lack of experience with very thorough advanced training... and their level of care is much higher than our basics.

... and i find that "Outstanding"


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Jim37F said:


> The paramedic school I'm eyeing does require 6 months of EMT work experience on an ambulance, but in my area, it is waayyy to easy for an EMT, even working 911 response, to get 6 months on an ambulance without ever actually doing a full patient assessment and thinking about what treatments are coming up and what the patient needs and so forth. You can very easily just show up with a gurney and wait for the fire medic to say "do this" or "BLS transport to this hospital, adios" and not do anything more than just regurgitate their report to the receiving nurse (without understanding it) and maybe an updated set of vitals. Yet that EMT's experience is equally valid (for the time requirement) as one who actually assesses a patient on a regular basis and has to decide what treatment they need and then give it without waiting for a medic to hold their hand.
> 
> So if you're worried about things like whether or not your new medic who wasn't an EMT is still learning how to work a gurney or talk on the radio or whatever other operational detail, well, IMO that stuff isn't exactly rocket scientist, and if a new medic can't learn that during new hire orientation or FTO time, well, I'd be worried about their ability to provide paramedicine and not because they were/weren't an EMT before.




Sorry bro.  If thats all your EMT's do or are expected to do... or thats all that you did then thats too bad.  Maybe your service might want to look into an all ALS model.

Nevertheless   that is clearly not "strong BLS background"


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## irishboxer384 (Oct 15, 2014)

I honestly don't think its apples to oranges if its studying a subject with both practical and academic portions. What knowledge you can gain in a similar field in 2 years, compared to BLS-level...is vast. The people who failed my EMT class fit into the 'mouth breather' classification, and 5 years of experience wouldn't have helped them be better humans let alone medical providers.

I myself have never worked as an EMT but I have never been accused of being a 'consistently weak medic', I think that is a dangerously general statement that you made in all honesty... a little old fashioned too I think. 

I understand the whole 'putting in your time' and the rewards it can entail, but the modern workplace allows people to advance in their various walks of employment based on MERIT, rather than pounding the same beat for 10 years prior at a mediocre level.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

No Fire medics in NYC


irishboxer384 said:


> I honestly don't think its apples to oranges if its studying a subject with both practical and academic portions. What knowledge you can gain in a similar field in 2 years, compared to BLS-level...is vast. The people who failed my EMT class fit into the 'mouth breather' classification, and 5 years of experience wouldn't have helped them be better humans let alone medical providers.
> 
> I myself have never worked as an EMT but I have never been accused of being a 'consistently weak medic', I think that is a dangerously general statement that you made in all honesty... a little old fashioned too I think.
> 
> I understand the whole 'putting in your time' and the rewards it can entail, but the modern workplace allows people to advance in their various walks of employment based on MERIT, rather than pounding the same beat for 10 years prior at a mediocre level.


Brother!   Clinical experience!

We both work in medicine right?  putting in your time is not the idea.  I'm not talking labor bro.

You really have a poor opinion of your EMT's.  

In NYC 70 to 80% of the service is BLS.


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## Jim37F (Oct 15, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> Sorry bro.  If thats all your EMT's do or are expected to do... or thats all that you did then thats too bad.  Maybe your service might want to look into an all ALS model.
> 
> Nevertheless   that is clearly not "strong BLS background"


I'm using that to say not all experience is equal. Simply having ride time on an ambulance doesn't make automatically make for a better paramedic over someone who went straight into paramedic school.

Plus I specifically left a private company where we were pretty much just gurney pushers for an agency where our medics WANT us to be thinking and will often tell us to run the assessment and so on and so forth


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

Jim37F said:


> I'm using that to say not all experience is equal. Simply having ride time on an ambulance doesn't make automatically make for a better paramedic over someone who went straight into paramedic school.
> 
> Plus I specifically left a private company where we were pretty much just gurney pushers for an agency where our medics WANT us to be thinking and will often tell us to run the assessment and so on and so forth


I think we are in agreement.


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## irishboxer384 (Oct 15, 2014)

My point was that you are stating people are consistently weak medics if they have little or no prior EMT experience. I'm stating it depends fully on the person and how they absorb information and react situationally


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 15, 2014)

irishboxer384 said:


> My point was that you are stating people are consistently weak medics if they have little or no prior EMT experience. I'm stating it depends fully on the person and how they absorb information and react situationally




I understand.  
Some people no matter what their experience will never learn.

Some sensative mature learners can apply even weak training and do very well.

I was responding to the original posts on this thread based on my experience.  I concede your point but I still stand by what I have observed in the field.


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## adamNYC (Oct 24, 2014)

Wow I missed 2 pages of posts and I just read all this. 

Someone mentioned medic schools requiring experience.

In NYC, I've looked at a couple programs:

St Johns in Queens. No experience necessary. http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/sc...rams-and-majors/paramedic-program-certificate
Methodist Hospital at Brooklyn. 4 months EMT experience. This was just changed I swear I read last year on this very same page they required you to work a 911 job while going to school simultaneously. http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/sc...rams-and-majors/paramedic-program-certificate


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## hogwiley (Oct 31, 2014)

I think its beneficial to have SOME EMT experience before becoming a Paramedic, but there is a point of diminishing return where working as an EMT really doesn't add much to your knowledge or skill level that would be beneficial as a Paramedic, and that point is reached fairly quickly, probably within 6 months of working BLS, maybe a little longer if you are working a Basic/Medic truck.


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## TransportJockey (Oct 31, 2014)

I dont think you need any time as EMT in yhe field prior to medic. It might be useful for.some people but not.everyone needs it. Teaches you bad habits you need to unlearn


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## Tigger (Oct 31, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> Strong BLS background... Priceless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the basis of your opinion, which you throwing out as fact. Your experiences may not correlate with others, that does not make them wrong.

Also, please do not post a new reply for each response you have. There is no reason to have five replies in a row. One with all the content will suffice.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 31, 2014)

TransportJockey said:


> I dont think you need any time as EMT in yhe field prior to medic. It might be useful for.some people but not.everyone needs it. Teaches you bad habits you need to unlearn


What kind of bad habits?

If you are learning bad habits as an EMT how are you not learning bad habits as a medic?

 How do you expect to perform at the ALS level with little to no clinical experience?


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## TransportJockey (Oct 31, 2014)

Gotham Medic said:


> What kind of bad habits?
> 
> If you are learning bad habits as an EMT how are you not learning bad habits as a medic?
> 
> How do you expect to perform at the ALS level with little to no clinical experience?


How does a nurse perform as a full rn without having spent time as an lpn or cna? A doctor be a doctor without having spent time as a pa? EMTs in medic school tend to get quite a few clinical hours, both in hospital and in the field. It much better prepares them than the limited clinical time an EMT student gets
And I can think of emts who have had to be retaught a physical exam becAuse they picked up bad habits from their employer and coworkers, same with infection control technique. We have a great bs-ems program here in nm that puts out 'zero to hero' medics that can run circles around lots of medics who spent years and years as an EMT. 
And as for learning bad habits as a medic, we all do. But if you have the proper education from the start, a lot of the bad habits might not happen because you have the education behind the 'why' to not take shortcuts.


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## Gotham Medic (Oct 31, 2014)

Tigger said:


> Yes, the basis of your opinion, which you throwing out as fact. Your experiences may not correlate with others, that does not make them wrong.
> 
> Also, please do not post a new reply for each response you have. There is no reason to have five replies in a row. One with all the content will suffice.


????

This is the most unusual  discussion board I have ever participated in.

Sorry folks.

Have safe careers.


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## John E (Nov 1, 2014)

You need to get out more...

Your adamant refusal to acknowledge that your opinion is not a fact clouds whatever message it is that you're trying to convey. Your incessant use of the term "bro" is just annoying.

You're also completely and totally wrong.

Bro...


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## MackTheKnife (Nov 1, 2014)

This has been an unusual discussion to say the least. Opinions vary, of course. But broad brush generalizations aren't good.


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