# Ncti



## nez (Dec 17, 2008)

Hello everyone...for all of you who are in SoCal...I hope you all are staying warm and out of the cold weather...because its starting to get really cold out here in CA...brrrrr! 
Anyhow...my question is have any of you heard anything, whether good or bad about the National College of Technical Instruction? I will be attending this school in Jan. 09 in Riverside, CA and was wondering if any of you had any feedback about this college? alright ladies and gents...have a great night...i'm gonna go have some soup right now to warm me up...thnx for input


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## EMTCop86 (Dec 20, 2008)

nez said:


> Hello everyone...for all of you who are in SoCal...I hope you all are staying warm and out of the cold weather...because its starting to get really cold out here in CA...brrrrr!
> Anyhow...my question is have any of you heard anything, whether good or bad about the National College of Technical Instruction? I will be attending this school in Jan. 09 in Riverside, CA and was wondering if any of you had any feedback about this college? alright ladies and gents...have a great night...i'm gonna go have some soup right now to warm me up...thnx for input


 
I haven't really heard anything about it. I was thinking about going there but decided to go to Crafton instead. No real reason other then I couldn't adjust my work schedule to go to NCTI. Good luck. I will also be starting my EMT class in January.


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## KEVD18 (Dec 20, 2008)

well its owned/run by amr, hands down the most evil organization on the planet so thats not a great start.


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## Noctis Lucis Caelum (Dec 20, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> well its owned/run by amr, hands down the most evil organization on the planet so thats not a great start.



Hahhaahah, yes, it is own by AMR.  Some say its good and some say its bad.  It all really depend on you.  I took my EMT class at a community college.  San Jose City if your curious.


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## EMTCop86 (Dec 20, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> well its owned/run by amr, hands down the most evil organization on the planet so thats not a great start.


 
Haha why is that?


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## kguy18 (Dec 20, 2008)

Hey Nez, 

I am a paramedic student at NCTI Riverside, its a nice school if you have any specific questions let me know Ill do my best to answer 

As for the whole AMR thing, any big ambulance company that is multi state and wants to make a profit will have a bad rep with people, not usually unfounded but still keep in mind...


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## Jon (Dec 20, 2008)

More evil than the IRS?

More evil than Madoff Investments?


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## KEVD18 (Dec 20, 2008)

kguy18 said:


> wants to make a profit


 

bingo. thats it right there. they put money before patient care. they are a for profit organization. nothing matters to them but the bottom line.


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## MMiz (Dec 20, 2008)

Just like any large national company you'll find some great locations and some not-so-great locations.  It is my personal belief that in general AMR has some of the higher hiring standards in the industry, but due to its vast size it's difficult to maintain a quality service and image.

About.com has a good article with a student review.  I think that your money could be better spent at a community college, but that's just me.


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## aidan (Dec 21, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> bingo. thats it right there. they put money before patient care. they are a for profit organization. nothing matters to them but the bottom line.



I don't think that's really.. fair. There has to be money in it - people's salaries have to be paid and equipment has to be bought. There are plenty of hospitals, doctors, nurses, medics etc. that couldn't work in the healthcare field if they couldn't be paid. Money before patients..? No, I don't think so anyway. Both of them need to be there.. the patients need to be taken care of, and billed accordingly.


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## dmiracco (Dec 24, 2008)

I definately agree with aidan, just because AMR is a for-profit organization doesnt mean that it is money before patient. I think that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
Unfortunately the bottom line for every service is money because regardless of the profit/not for profit, private/public I think we all can agree that without the revenue that particular agency cannot stay a float. With that said, with a corporation that big it is dependant on the region as to how that organization is viewed. Some good some bad.
Same with other huge companies like Omniflight, Rural Metro, AEL, etc.
To assume that because an agency is for-profit that the patient care is sub standard isnt fair at all.
This is why we have state and national standards, protocols, med direction, QA/QI etc.


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## tycoon916 (Jan 6, 2009)

I go to NCTi in Roseville Northern Ca in the EMT-P class. i think its a great program. although alot of people B!TCH & Moan that it is much more rigorous than other locations of NCTI (like riverside and livermore). for example we have a list that contains 160 Home Medications that we are tested on weekly. also we have to know more field drugs than other locations. this is what i am told. the instructors are highly respected and all know there stuff.


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## KEVD18 (Jan 6, 2009)

dmiracco said:


> This is why we have state and national standards, protocols, med direction, QA/QI etc.


 
i need to add no comment here to explain the ridiculousity(yeah i made it up. i am after all a certified wordologist) of that statement. this is being added merely to oversatisfy the 10 character limit.


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## medic_chick87 (Jan 7, 2009)

Went to NCTI in Milpitas. Good school. Most of the instrucors are really good, especially the ones for lab days. Not the deepest school (could spend more time teaching cardio, etc) but gives you a pretty good start for your career. Biggest benifit is that they give you all of your additional certs in class that most schools make you get on your own (ACLS, AMLS, PEEP, PALS, and a few others.)


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## xoxokathryn (Jan 15, 2009)

NCTI Paramedic Program San Diego.... anyone have any info on it? I just took the HOBET and i'm try to get some opinions on it... good or bad... anything would help


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## VentMedic (Jan 15, 2009)

medic_chick87 said:


> Biggest benifit is that they give you all of your additional certs in class that most schools make you get on your own (ACLS, AMLS, PEEP, PALS, and a few others.)


 
Were the hours for these certs included in the total number of class hours?

While these certs are important they do take up hours that could be used for teaching more indepth details to better prep one for these certs. Earning an ACLS cert, as it is presented now, is meaningless unless you have an adequate foundation of knowledge. The same for PALS and AMLS. Some schools use these certs as filler meet the minimum hours for the state when their school and/or instructors aren't able to provide enough educational material due to their own minimum education levels and standards. 

The certs should be made available to the students but they should be in addition to the minimum state required hours.  If the school did its job correctly, these certs should be just a formality to test what you have already learned.


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## BossyCow (Jan 15, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Were the hours for these certs included in the total number of class hours?
> 
> While these certs are important they do take up hours that could be used for teaching more indepth details to better prep one for these certs. Earning an ACLS cert, as it is presented now, is meaningless unless you have an adequate foundation of knowledge. The same for PALS and AMLS. Some schools use these certs as filler meet the minimum hours for the state when their school and/or instructors aren't able to provide enough educational material due to their own minimum education levels and standards.
> 
> The certs should be made available to the students but they should be in addition to the minimum state required hours.  If the school did its job correctly, these certs should be just a formality to test what you have already learned.



So were these the same guys who used to do the accounting for Enron?


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## medic_chick87 (Jan 17, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Were the hours for these certs included in the total number of class hours?
> 
> While these certs are important they do take up hours that could be used for teaching more indepth details to better prep one for these certs. Earning an ACLS cert, as it is presented now, is meaningless unless you have an adequate foundation of knowledge. The same for PALS and AMLS. Some schools use these certs as filler meet the minimum hours for the state when their school and/or instructors aren't able to provide enough educational material due to their own minimum education levels and standards.
> 
> The certs should be made available to the students but they should be in addition to the minimum state required hours.  If the school did its job correctly, these certs should be just a formality to test what you have already learned.



I dont know if they were just using the classes as hour fillers, but each class was the formal 2 day course, with new instructors to teach the class (as in it wasnt our everday instructors teaching the class).


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## emstim84 (Jan 19, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Were the hours for these certs included in the total number of class hours?
> 
> While these certs are important they do take up hours that could be used for teaching more indepth details to better prep one for these certs. Earning an ACLS cert, as it is presented now, is meaningless unless you have an adequate foundation of knowledge. The same for PALS and AMLS. Some schools use these certs as filler meet the minimum hours for the state when their school and/or instructors aren't able to provide enough educational material due to their own minimum education levels and standards.
> 
> The certs should be made available to the students but they should be in addition to the minimum state required hours.  If the school did its job correctly, these certs should be just a formality to test what you have already learned.



NCTI offers all these certs not as "filler" but to get the paramedic student in the proper state of mind. I took AMLS as an EMT-B for CEs before enrolling in the paramedic program at Roseville NCTI, and as far as I'm concerned, the mindset that AMLS teaches is far more important than the knowledge in the course. I'm sure the same holds true for ACLS, ITLS, PALS and PEPP.



medic_chick87 said:


> Went to NCTI in Milpitas. Good school. Most of the instrucors are really good, especially the ones for lab days. Not the deepest school (could spend more time teaching cardio, etc) but gives you a pretty good start for your career. Biggest benifit is that they give you all of your additional certs in class that most schools make you get on your own (ACLS, AMLS, PEEP, PALS, and a few others.)



Pretty much...sure the program costs $8,750 but those five cert classes alone would cost about $1,200 to $1,500 if taken/purchased separately.



tycoon916 said:


> I go to NCTi in Roseville Northern Ca in the EMT-P class. i think its a great program. although alot of people B!TCH & Moan that it is much more rigorous than other locations of NCTI (like riverside and livermore). for example we have a list that contains 160 Home Medications that we are tested on weekly. also we have to know more field drugs than other locations. this is what i am told. the instructors are highly respected and all know there stuff.



Are you in the 08 11 class or the previous one? Roseville is an outstanding campus for NCTI. The lead instructor was a flight medic for six years with Reach on top of his other experiences and is an extremely intelligent person. I think my money is well spent here.

I'm not surprised that the Roseville campus is more rigorous than the others though...from what I hear, Roseville was the first campus and therefore is the "main" campus whereas the other ones are satellites. I don't see why people complain so much about the home med list...I hear a lot of people whine in my class about that. It's a name and one small sentence of what it does for each drug...not rocket science.


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## VentMedic (Jan 19, 2009)

emstim84 said:


> NCTI offers all these certs not as "filler" but to get the paramedic student in the *proper state of mind.* *I took AMLS as an EMT-B *for CEs before enrolling in the paramedic program at Roseville NCTI, and as far as I'm concerned, *the mindset that AMLS teaches is far more important than the knowledge in the course. *I'm sure the same holds true for ACLS, ITLS, PALS and PEPP.
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> I'm not surprised that the Roseville campus is more rigorous than the others though...from what I hear, Roseville was the first campus and therefore is the "main" campus whereas the other ones are satellites. I don't see why people complain so much about the home med list...I hear a lot of people whine in my class about that. *It's a name and one small sentence of what it does for each drug...not rocket science*.


 
I don't know whether to laugh hysterically out loud or cry at this post.

This appears to be one of those cheerleading situations where they build you up so one does not know what they haven't been taught. 

The home med list: translated - a substitution for a real pharmacology education.



> Pretty much...sure the program costs $8,750 but those five cert classes alone would cost about $1,200 to $1,500 if taken/purchased separately.


 
At a California CC, the $8750 would cover an A.S. degree as well as the additional certs. What's the tuition now? $22/credit hours for approximately 70 credits total in the degree.


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## emstim84 (Jan 19, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> I don't know whether to laugh hysterically out loud or cry at this post.
> 
> This appears to be one of those cheerleading situations where they build you up so one does not know what they haven't been taught.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Thank you for reminding me why I stopped viewing emtlife.com awhile ago...I forgot about the personal attacks which the forum claims is against the rules yet seems to be quite prevalent. What I find hilarious is your claim without any supporting evidence to back up your accusation. So you mean to tell me that I'm just a sniveling cheerleader for cert classes because I think the mindset that an educational class teaches is just as important as the education itself? So then do you seem to know it all and can therefore pass judgment of whether education is useless or not? Perhaps I should be more like you seem to be and just stop learning? I'm sure my patient care wouldn't be compromised as a result of adopting such a toxic attitude as yours...right? So because we don't learn everything about home medications, it therefore is not real education? You don't seem to have been educated that well yourself if you think that.

As far as the A.S. degree goes, who cares about California CC paramedic programs? I took my EMT-B at a California CC and the education was atrocious. Maybe you like saving a few grand at the expense of your patient's lives but I don't.


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## VentMedic (Jan 19, 2009)

emstim84 said:


> Interesting. Thank you for reminding me why I stopped viewing emtlife.com awhile ago...I forgot about the personal attacks which the forum claims is against the rules yet seems to be quite prevalent.


 
Personal attack? 



emstim84 said:


> What I find hilarious is your claim without any supporting evidence to back up your accusation.


 
What part is lacking in supporting evidence? Look up the college tuition in California. Look up the total number of hours and break down for NCTI. 



emstim84 said:


> So you mean to tell me that *I'm just a sniveling cheerleader* for cert classes because I think the mindset that an educational class teaches is just as important as the education itself? So then do you seem to know it all and can therefore pass judgment of whether education is useless or not? Perhaps I should be more like you seem to be and *just stop learning*?


 Who called you a cheerleader? 

The teaching style is based on a similar philosophy found in cheerleading. 

Before you can stop learning, one must have started the educational process. 




emstim84 said:


> I'm sure my patient care wouldn't be compromised as a result of adopting such a toxic attitude as yours...right? So because we don't learn everything about home medications, it therefore is not real education? You don't seem to have been educated that well yourself if you think that.


Toxic attitude for supporting education instead of just "training"? You memorized a list of meds. Call it for what it is. 



emstim84 said:


> As far as the A.S. degree goes, *who cares about California CC paramedic programs?* I took my EMT-B at a California CC and the education was atrocious. Maybe you like saving a few grand at the expense of your patient's lives but I don't.


 
The EMT-B cert itself is atrocious. It barely teaches an introduction to EMS. 

I support a solid education. Your description and attitude explains the type of program NCTI offers and your position on education.


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## emstim84 (Jan 19, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> What part is lacking in supporting evidence? Look up the college tuition in California. Look up the total number of hours and break down for NCTI.





VentMedic said:


> The teaching style is based on a similar philosophy found in cheerleading.



I was referring to your claim that the cert classes such as AMLS employ a cheerleader philosophy which suggests they don't offer sufficient education in what they are certifying. Anyone can look up the tuition of CCs so I don't see why you would need to provide evidence for that anyway. However, I think it's currently $20-26/unit depending on where you go. You make it sound as if hours of education is the only way to measure the quality of an education. Again, I question whether you ever received an adequate one yourself if you think that way.



VentMedic said:


> Before you can stop learning, one must have started the educational process.
> 
> You seem to know little about it, so I'm surprised you would make such a statement. If you knew anything about education, you would realize that most arguable facts and statements must be backed by empirical evidence and/or data to support them. You have utterly failed in this regard to make your case for the uselessness of cert classes.
> 
> ...


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## MMiz (Jan 19, 2009)

This thread has reached its end.  You're welcome to communicate via PM if you'd like.


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