# Radios?



## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 16, 2009)

Well I searched but cannot find anything on this.

I am looking at getting an ICOM F-50 or an ICOM F-3021 for my personal radio. Has anyone used either of these? If so did/do you like it, hate it, love it, recomend/not recoment it? If you dont like it, what do you reccomend? I am loking for a 5 watt min radio. I'd like to have more than 16 channels and it looks like the next one up is the 128 channel models. These two are basically waht I am looking for, but if you like a different manufacturer, lemmie know! 

Thanks!


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## JAM-EMT (Apr 16, 2009)

http://www.pxdz.com/english/products.asp

Puxing PX-888


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 16, 2009)

JAM-EMT said:


> http://www.pxdz.com/english/products.asp
> 
> Puxing PX-888



You like dis one. Is it what you guys use? Can you tell me some more about it? Thanks!


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 16, 2009)

What type of personal radio are you looking for, and why?  

Unless you have authorization from your agency and are added onto their license, or an FCC license of your own, you may not transmit on a licensed frequency.  So essentially, you would be purchasing a really expensive scanner.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 16, 2009)

We are not issued radios, but if we have them my district will add us to their liscence. I don't know why it is not an NFPA or L&I or whoever it is regulation for all firefighters to have radios. I do know that I will not go interior on a fire with out one. And it makes doing traffic controll extermly tough. (We do the stone age thing where three blinks of the light means is it clear, one means yes and two means no.:wacko


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 17, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> We are not issued radios, but if we have them my district will add us to their liscence. I don't know why it is not an NFPA or L&I or whoever it is regulation for all firefighters to have radios. I do know that I will not go interior on a fire with out one. And it makes doing traffic controll extermly tough. (We do the stone age thing where three blinks of the light means is it clear, one means yes and two means no.:wacko



Because it is the FCC that controls all radio transmissions.  Your agency should be the one providing you with the necessary equipment to do your job, and you shouldn't have to buy it on your own.


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## STATION4 (Apr 17, 2009)

he shouldnt have to go to his company for using the radio it under their 911 center fcc liscence to use.unless it is diff their.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 17, 2009)

135383 said:


> he shouldnt have to go to his company for using the radio it under their 911 center fcc liscence to use.unless it is diff their.


It depends upon how that frequency is licensed in your area.  Certain frequencies are licensed by the state for state wide usage, some are licensed to the county, and some are licensed to the agency.  Each FCC license specifies how many radios, and of what type (base, mobile, handheld, repeater, etc...), are allowed under the license.  Going through the agency is the short cut.  To be technical about it, you are actually required to obtain permission from the license holder for your area, unless that authority has been delegated to another agency.

Some 911 centers do not want to foot the bill for every radio in their area to be on their license, so they make the local agencies obtain their own license for that frequency.  The easiest way to check this is to figure out what frequency you would be transmitting on, and going to the FCC website.  It will list the call signs of each agency allowed to transmit on that frequency in your area.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 17, 2009)

Maybe I need to look a little deeper before I do anything. I was just going on word of mouth, but I should probably get something in writing or talk right to my Chief. Thanks for the advice.

See why I need to ask stuff like this.:wacko:


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## BLSBoy (Apr 17, 2009)

Unless you start transmitting obscene and or profane language, or useing emergency channels for non emergency traffic, you have nothing to worry about. 
Many medics, EMTs and firemen have their own VHF portables here. No licenses to worry about. 
We use them at work, for work.


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## MMiz (Apr 17, 2009)

I think it's important to evaluate a few things before you purchase a radio:
1.  VHF/UHF/800 Mhz/Other?
2.  How much are you willing to spend?
3.  What features do you need?  Do you need x channels, scanning, voice storage, man down?
4.  How are you going to program the radio?  It helps to have friends that have similar radios that can program them for you.

That said, and having used all three, I'd go for Motorola first, Kenwood second, and Icom third.  I think that Icom has a great use in the business market, but I don't think they hold up well in an EMS environment.

As far as Puxing or similar radios, I think they're fun toys, but wouldn't rely on them for serious communications.  Puxing struggled to get an FCC rating, which I'm not even sure they have, and you'll find that most retailers admit a quality control problem.  I'm much rather rely on Motorola or Kenwood, but of course you'd have to be willing to pay more.

I hope that helps.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 17, 2009)

BLSBoy said:


> Unless you start transmitting obscene and or profane language, or useing emergency channels for non emergency traffic, you have nothing to worry about.
> Many medics, EMTs and firemen have their own VHF portables here. No licenses to worry about.
> We use them at work, for work.



And licensed public safety frequencies qualify as emergency channels.  With a fine of up to $10,000 per day you transmit, confiscation of your radio equipment, and possible jail time is it worth the risk?


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## BLSBoy (Apr 17, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> And licensed public safety frequencies qualify as emergency channels.  With a fine of up to $10,000 per day you transmit, confiscation of your radio equipment, and possible jail time is it worth the risk?



Call the FCC.


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## Flight-LP (Apr 18, 2009)

Normally I would stay out of these fire threads as this isn't firehouse.com and all, but my question is why do YOU need one. Are there not portable radios on the apparatus???????

What immediate emergent requires you to have one??

Radios are an addiction for some reason. People just love to hear themselves talk on the radio. There is nothing more frustrating that trying to communicate with dispatch and having 20 volunteer firefighter all going en route to a call POV and talk right over you. (Even worse is when you arrive on scene and there are more POV's than tow trucks and no real fire apparatus!)

FFEMT has a strong valid point. The FCC has no interest in you or your department until you violate their regulations. If you are not familiar with them or your department does not have the reference materials available, the 1. your department needs to have more effective, proactive leadership, and 2. you do NOT need to buy one.

No department should ever ask its members to buy their own personal gear. you don't have to buy your own bunker gear too do you???????


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## fortsmithman (Apr 18, 2009)

Any Canadian members know what Industry Canada says about this topic.  A not to US members here in Canada Industry Canada does the same thing as the FCC.  I'm curious I would not buy a portable radio to use for my duties.  We are issued portables.  We use the following radio's.
Motorola HT1250
Motorola GP350
Motorola GP300
Kenwood TK270

As well in other non ems volunteer settings I've used radios.
Maxxon
Benidix King 
Icom


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 18, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> Normally I would stay out of these fire threads as this isn't firehouse.com and all, but my question is why do YOU need one. Are there not portable radios on the apparatus???????


 HA! Portables on the rigs? Noooooo. I would be buying one because #1 I would not go interior without one. #2 I do wildland as well and often there are only two or three of us and none has a radio. #3 for back country SAR.

I guess I need to do s'more research.:blush:


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## medic417 (Apr 18, 2009)

They don't provide what you need to do the job quit.  No way I work for a company that does not provide what I need to do my job.


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## firecoins (Apr 18, 2009)

medic417 said:


> They don't provide what you need to do the job quit.  No way I work for a company that does not provide what I need to do my job.



words to live by


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## rescuepoppy (Apr 20, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> Radios are an addiction for some reason. People just love to hear themselves talk on the radio. There is nothing more frustrating that trying to communicate with dispatch and having 20 volunteer firefighter all going en route to a call POV and talk right over you. (Even worse is when you arrive on scene and there are more POV's than tow trucks and no real fire apparatus!)
> 
> Let me second that thought try sitting in the dispatch center trying to make sense out of all the traffic when everybody and his brother is expecting you to answer them. If you do need to carry a radio then your service will provide you with one. They will also keep up the maintenance on it you should not have to pay out of your pocket for things like this.


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## Stewart1990 (Apr 20, 2009)

My old department required us to buy most of out own things. they had about 3 radios and they all went to line officers. then there were pagers, and they only had about 10. If you wanted to go on calls you had to sink good money.


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## LAS46 (Apr 22, 2009)

Any FCC questions about radios can go to me, I currently hold 3 FCC licenses and I am a consultant for my countys E911 and communications center.

Dustin
MFR, NREMT-B Student
Safety Officer

FCC Licenses
N0DRC
KE5RPV
KD0GJV


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## DV_EMT (Apr 22, 2009)

continuing question...

can CB's with 40 channels pick up EMS related channels. I'm not talking channel 9 here, or does it depend on the frequecy?> or?


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## LAS46 (Apr 22, 2009)

DV_EMT said:


> continuing question...
> 
> can CB's with 40 channels pick up EMS related channels. I'm not talking channel 9 here, or does it depend on the frequecy?> or?



NO CBs cannot pick up EMS related channels they are on a different frequency band.

Dustin
MFR, NREMT-B Student
FCC Licenses:
N0DRC
KE5RPV
KD0GJV


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## mace85 (May 6, 2009)

I don't know if I would spend money on equipment for a paying job. But when I volunteer I understand that there might be some stuff I need to buy. My volunteer spot provides mostly everything, however owning a personal radio would be a great asset. On one hand, it gets expensive and doesn't "benefit" me. But volunteering as a whole is a different animal.


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## MRE (May 6, 2009)

DV_EMT said:


> continuing question...
> 
> can CB's with 40 channels pick up EMS related channels. I'm not talking channel 9 here, or does it depend on the frequecy?> or?



Nope, different frequency range and different modulation type.

CB is 27MHz range, either DSBLC AM or SSB

Generally, fire/ems use frequencies around 45, 155, 450 or 800MHz range FM.


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## MRE (May 6, 2009)

LAS46 said:


> Any FCC questions about radios can go to me, I currently hold 3 FCC licenses and I am a consultant for my countys E911 and communications center.
> 
> Dustin
> MFR, NREMT-B Student
> ...




No offense, but a tech amateur radio license and 2 amateur club licenses doesn't necessarily make you an authority on commercial FCC regulations.  Not that you aren't, but the licenses don't really mean anything.

With all the emergency communications activities you do, you should get your general license.  HF is not only a lot of fun, but it can be invaluble for communication over mixed terrain that VHF will not work for.

73'
W1IM


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## MRE (May 6, 2009)

Per my last message, I am not an athority on FCC regulations, but I have researched them a fair bit.  If anyone has anything to add or correct in the following post, please do.



ffemt8978 said:


> Unless you have authorization from your agency and are added onto their license, or an FCC license of your own, you may not transmit on a licensed frequency.



Generally for a fire or ems agency, the license(s) will be issued to the organization, and a number of radios of different power levels will be listed on the license.  You might see 10 mobile radios at 100W and 20 handheld radios at 5W listed, or something similar.  They will also usually include a distance from a certain point, like the address of the license holder (agency station in most cases) that the radios can be used.  This is for frequency coordination with other radio users.  The FCC will only allow two groups to use the same frequency if they are a certain distance away from each other, so that the two systems don't interfere with each other.  Thats why there are geographic restrictions on the license.  



ffemt8978 said:


> or an FCC license of your own



The FCC would not issue a second license on the same frequency and location as an existing one (freq coordination again), so this wouldn't work.  To get your own commercial license, you actually have to pay the FCC to do a frequency coordination study of the licenses in your area to ensure that you don't interfere with them.

The good thing is that, in the case described above, individuals do not need to be added to the license, and new radios also do not if they meet the type and power listed on the license already.  The number of each type of radio refers to the maximum number of those type of radios on the air at any given time, not the number that are sitting around the station.  As long as the group does not go over that number, they are still within the license parameters.

The short answer is, check the FCC license for any special or odd conditions, if you are operating as a member of the agency with the license and are not violating the terms of the license, then there should be no problems with legality.

Oh, and modified amateur radios are illegal to use on commercial frequencies because they are not FCC type accepted for non amateur use.  However you can use commercial radios on amateur frequencies if properly licensed.  Go figure.


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## "Doc" Fox (May 6, 2009)

We have Nextel's.  I still have my HT1000 from my Auxiliary LEO days.


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## MRE (May 6, 2009)

"Doc" Fox said:


> We have Nextel's.  I still have my HT1000 from my Auxiliary LEO days.



No cell service in my town, so radios are the way to go.  The HT1000 is an excellent radio, and one of Motorola's "Jedi" series.


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## "Doc" Fox (May 7, 2009)

W1IM said:


> No cell service in my town, so radios are the way to go.  The HT1000 is an excellent radio, and one of Motorola's "Jedi" series.



I'm glad I kept it.  But right now it's a very heavy duty scanner, since we do not use radios at this time, but it's nicee to lisen in on what the locals (PD/FD/SD) are doing.  In a college town, I'm five minutes away from NIU, we hear some pretty funny calls.


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## eynonqrs (May 14, 2009)

Unless you have a grand and want a new Motorola, the MT or HT 1000 series are by far the best ones. The agency that I volunteer with recently bought Vertex Portables. The Vertex's are far less expensive than Motorola and the quality is excellent, and they have the same features as a Motorola. The only Motorola that I own personally is a spectra mobile which I got for a really good price. E-Bay has really good deals, you need to research what you need and the price range that you are looking for.


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