# pov emergency light placement



## 2boss4 (Oct 5, 2008)

i have a pov with a couple blue lights and i sometimes see cops or other vehicles with the light placed in the upper right side of the windshield rather than centered or to the left (which would make more sense to me so the car ur passing can more easily see it). any explination would appreciated. thanx


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## MMiz (Oct 5, 2008)

First, welcome to EMTLife!

Oh geez, this isn't going to end well.

Many police vehicles have radars and dash cameras that make it impossible to place the light in the center.  I've seen many others that have a light attached to the right-side sun visor, so that could also explain what you're seeing.  In general, placing a light in the center will provide you the best results as far as being seen by others.


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

lol,


centre would be ok, so too is top right, all you want is to be seen,


now sits back and observes


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

one of the main reasons is to reduce flashback.

its your vehicle, put your light where you want them, or grow up and realize your lights are a liability and not a benefit.

i too now will sit back and watch this one burn. beer, check. popcorn, check.


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## bstone (Oct 5, 2008)

I used my turn signals to sign morse code to the other cars that I am on an emergency run. No, just kidding.


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## rmellish (Oct 5, 2008)

I highly suggest the "top shelf of closet" position, that or the "sell to coworker and place on their pov" location.

Just my .02

If you absolutely need a light, get a cheap one which can be seen from 360 degrees...its just a courtesy light in most states anyway.


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## flhtci01 (Oct 5, 2008)

I prefer keeping it in the trunk.  Don't have to worry about flashback or other people seeing it.  My two copperheads.


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## traumateam1 (Oct 5, 2008)

*Uh-oh*

Oh I think I'm just gonna watch this one also.. Hey KEVD can I have a cold one? lol

But seriously, I'd put it on the dash.. I don't have lights in my POV so I dunno what's best.. but in the ambos here they have a Code 3 two light strobe set up on the dash.. so the bottom of the windshield and it works good, not much flashback.

Take care and welcome!! :beerchug::beerchug:


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

sure pull up a chair. oktoberfest is in the fridge. bring me one while your at it....


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## NJN (Oct 5, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> i too now will sit back and watch this one burn. beer, check. popcorn, check.



What no chips? 

Anyways pass the popcorn and this should be fun.



Oh and being on topic, check out the awesome search feature for all of your blue light argument needs. We also offer a full variety of supplemental whacker knowledge posts such as those about duty belts and personal jump kits.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

you want chips, bring chips.


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## fortsmithman (Oct 5, 2008)

i probably won't be buying a light for the POV i'll just use the one that is agency provided.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

well you're halfway there.

when you decided to return your issued light to the store room, you'll have arrived at your destination.


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## NJN (Oct 5, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> you want chips, bring chips.



Alright i got the chips and i'll bring in some lazy boys while i'm at it. Pass the drinks.


As for my POV lights, it was immediately donated to the film club i'm president of for use as a prop. Its collecting dust in a closet somewhere.


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## fortsmithman (Oct 5, 2008)

i'd probably use one because the town govt may require response in members POV.  At present there are 4 or 5 members of my agency who have lights on there POV it ranges from 3 or 4 with wig wags in their grills and one with overhead lights.  Our agency coordinator uses red and blue lights but then again he's also the community constable.  For those ofnyu who aren't Canadian the community constable is equivalent to the position of town marshal.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

fortsmithman said:


> i'd probably use one because the town govt may require response in members POV.  At present there are 4 or 5 members of my agency who have lights on there POV it ranges from 3 or 4 with wig wags in their grills and one with overhead lights.  Our agency coordinator uses red and blue lights but then again he's also the community constable.  For those ofnyu who aren't Canadian the community constable is equivalent to the position of town marshal.



i have a question for you.

in another thread, you said your agency just got authorization for members to use povs. my question is why bother with them now. you've obviously been getting by just fine without them since ems was started. what has changed that you suddenly have the need to be half arsing a response?


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## traumateam1 (Oct 5, 2008)

-gets KEVD and NJNewbie196 a beer.. hey don't hog those chips!-


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## fortsmithman (Oct 5, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> i have a question for you.
> 
> in another thread, you said your agency just got authorization for members to use povs. my question is why bother with them now. you've obviously been getting by just fine without them since ems was started. what has changed that you suddenly have the need to be half arsing a response?



actually the vollie service im with were authorized to use them but one of the members cut off in traffic a friend of the then mayor who ordered them out of service.  We have a new mayor and senior administrative officer at town hall and hey reversed the ruling.  All members were told that even using the light we can not go faster than the posted speed limit and all traffic laws are to be obeyed.  I probably wouldnt buy a light because i won't always be with the service because I am considering working in the oil patch emergency services where the pay would be good. 250 to 300 per day.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

alright, so i'll modify the question slightly.

during the time the lights were taken away, did anybody die because you didnt get there fast enough?

if they are going to be just courtesy lights, meaning you cant violate any traffic laws and nobody is required to yield to you, whats the point?


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## fortsmithman (Oct 5, 2008)

There is a requirement under the territorial motor vehicles act that requires people to pull over when a authorized vehicle with emergency lights has the emergency light activated.  It's wither the territorial or municipal govt that determines what is an authoried vehicle.  Nope no one died.  except maybe some members of the service who did speed heavily getting to the ambulance bay at the hospital. some members are still speeding.  And with the lights that the town provides we only have 3 lights dash lasers because only the members on first call use the lights.  I've never used it because most of the calls i have when I'm on call are to act as ground support for air medivac. We pick up the medivac team from the airport take them to the  hospital, then we take them and the pt to the airport.  Another member of the service has purchased several emergency lights he hopes to sell to other service members.  The only time i can see for the lights to be used if responding to go to an immediate life threatening of mass cassualty incident.  I've never been on an MCI and only a few call that were immediate life threatening.  The more I think about it the more i'm moving over to kevd way of thinking of this topic.

Don't hog the chips.


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## BossyCow (Oct 5, 2008)

Okay, I don't particularly like beer, but I'll open up a nice box of wine for me and airwaygoddess..... and instead of chips.. I'm opening up a big Costco bag of pistachios and putting out a bowl for shells. 

The best placement for POV lights is in the box they were shipped in. If the history of your department shows that responders with lights cut someone off, it shouldn't matter who that person has for friends. Gotta wonder, if it would have been okay to cut someone one who isn't friends of the mayor? POV lights don't work, don't help and give the responder a feeling of importance that isn't warranted. 

I'm a volly in rural EMS and I respond POV. The few times I've been responding to a critical call in my POV and find myself behind some 83 yo in an RV the size of a small apartment building doing 28mph in a 50mph zone, it reminds me to slow down, be safe, and generally take the time to reflect on the 'need' for urgency.


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

Just as an added point 

i remember reading a very good piece recently stating that excessive speed while responding should not be encouraged, their being VERY few cases where and extra min or 2 will have any negitive impact on the condition


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## traumateam1 (Oct 5, 2008)

Awwwe! Look at this. An EMTLife family reunion ^_^. All sittin down for chips, beer, wine, and pistachios.


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## fortsmithman (Oct 5, 2008)

traumateam1 said:


> Awwwe! Look at this. An EMTLife family reunion ^_^. All sittin down for chips, beer, wine, and pistachios.


beer as long as its not that weak american stuff its gotta be canadian beer


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## traumateam1 (Oct 5, 2008)

:lol: 
We'll I'll bring some stuff from BC, and you bring some stuff from up north


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## medicdan (Oct 5, 2008)

Since KEV is busy with his beer, I will do his job for him:
*
DO A SEARCH!*


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## mikie (Oct 5, 2008)

The best place is the most visible to the drivers and LEAST visible (flashback) to you.  My lights (no more:blink were centered, seemed to work.  




BossyCow said:


> Okay, I don't particularly like beer, but I'll open up a nice *box* of wine for me and airwaygoddess.....



I'm more of a wine fan myself.  Can I be added to the mix?  However, I prefer bottles


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

emt-student said:


> Since KEV is busy with his beer, I will do his job for him:
> *
> DO A SEARCH!*



i was just going to let the rampant mocking take over on this one, but thanks for the back up.


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

Nothing classyer than a box of wine,


reminds me of the student and festivle nights,,

Whats the cost of shippign a keg transatlantic? Guinness anyone?


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

we've got it over here. it isnt as fresh and therefore cant be as good, but we do have it.

i wish we had the foreign extra over here though...


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## Jon (Oct 5, 2008)

Scout said:


> Nothing classyer than a box of wine,
> 
> 
> reminds me of the student and festivle nights,,
> ...


I'm in. Guinness... it's a meal!

Car Bombs, anyone?


As for Bossy's Box O' Wine... last month was a really good year!

I too shall enjoy the pistachios... and KevD and I will be sitting and working on some Sam Adams... maybe the Octoberfest?


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## mikie (Oct 5, 2008)

Sorry guys, but as a native to Saint Louis...I'm going to have to drink my Bud.


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## John E (Oct 5, 2008)

*All whackerness aside...*

if the agency/dept. that the original poster works for mandates the use of lights in a personal vehicle, why not simply offer some legitimate suggestions? 

If it's just another case of "whackerness" run amok, well, who cares really?

John E.

Won't be asking about ideas for any lights in my personal vehicle, even though I use it for work all the time...


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

i think the idea here is to demonstrate that the majority of the members here are sick of all the whackerness and this is how i(we) are lashing out. add to the the growing annoyance in people not searching before posting(a movement im proud to say i was in front of) and you have a thread that ought to be approaching two pages soon of dissent.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

oh and jon the beers in the fridge. i have popcorn, njnewb has the chips, theres some fermented grape juice around somewhere. we're pretty well stocked for this one.


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

but if i posted it over it would be the real stuff not a British or Canadian or nigearian knock off.

And you can taste the difference.


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## traumateam1 (Oct 5, 2008)

*Random.. but..*

Ya know.. I'm Irish.. I think I should come to Ireland and try out some of your beer.


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

We do several very good stouts and a nice cider vintage.

Not a big fan of the yellow pales myself, bud, Corslight etc,


But anytime i'm sure a session could be arranged


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

my general rule of thumb is if i can read a paper through a pint of beer, i wont drink it(unless its free adn the only thing available).

so this rules out bud/light, coors/light, miller/light, corona/light, and all of your college beers(natty ice, pbr, bush light etc).

i rarely have more than three or four at a time so its all about quality. big fan of the sam adams line(well, most of it)


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## Jon (Oct 5, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> my general rule of thumb is if i can read a paper through a pint of beer, i wont drink it(unless its free adn the only thing available).
> 
> so this rules out bud/light, coors/light, miller/light, corona/light, and all of your college beers(natty ice, pbr, bush light etc).
> 
> i rarely have more than three or four at a time so its all about quality. big fan of the sam adams line(well, most of it)


Monty Python said it best... When they intro their Philosopher's drinking song... the Bruce's come on stage drinking Fosters. They say they can't stand American beer... they compare it to making love in a canoe... and we'll leave it at that .


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## BLSBoy (Oct 5, 2008)

2boss4 said:


> i have a pov with a couple blue lights and i sometimes see cops or other vehicles with the light placed in the upper right side of the windshield rather than centered or to the left (which would make more sense to me so the car ur passing can more easily see it). any explination would appreciated. thanx



I'll bite. 
Putting a light on the drivers side high interferes with vision both from the light, and flashback. 

There are what are known as "zones" for emergency lighting. The roof, the immediate high area in the windsheid, the lower windsheild, the grille, and lower area. 

You generally want to cover an upper zone such as the roof or upper windshield, and lower area to catch drivers attention. A simple light mounted high, and grille lights (2) are ample warning power to the front. 

Now my disclaimer;
I am a career EMT (waiting on NREMTP so I can start working as Paramedic<_<), vol. FF, and I respond as a part of the Atlantic County EMS Task Force, so there are times that I could use lights to move traffic so I can get quickly, but safely, to my destination. 

I also have helped install lights as well. 

That being said, I have NO emergency lights in my POV at the moment. 

I have my priorities, and lighting up my POV just aint one of them at the moment.


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## 2boss4 (Oct 5, 2008)

hahahahah. 
look guys, i knew i was asking a whacker question. lol. i couldnt help myself. it wasnt so much a question of how to use um, as it was a question of why people did it that way. trust me...im satisfied with my one light centered on the dash. i cant say i wasnt expecting some responses like the ones ive been getting. its all good


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## marineman (Oct 5, 2008)

Man, it's a 7 & 7 kind of night here can I still join the party? I'll bring enough to share.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

told you we'd hit two pages....


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

indeed you did, on page 4?


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

we're only up to two.....


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## 2boss4 (Oct 5, 2008)

good thing i didnt ask about my light bar, sirens, and push bumper...
kidding guys, just kidding


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## marineman (Oct 5, 2008)

We're currently on page 5 for me.


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## Scout (Oct 5, 2008)

marineman said:


> We're currently on page 5 for me.



same^^^^


kev ease up on that quality beverage that is consumed in light moderation


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## mikie (Oct 5, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> my general rule of thumb is if i can read a paper through a pint of beer, i wont drink it(unless its free adn the only thing available).



I'm mostly the opposite.  I like colors, but dark ones just ain't it

page 3 for me.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 5, 2008)

oh yeah, you can pick how many posts per pages.....


my b


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## JPINFV (Oct 6, 2008)

The best place for POV lights is in a box marked "Return to sender."


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## mikie (Oct 6, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> The best placement for POV lights is in the box they were shipped in.


---


JPINFV said:


> The best place for POV lights is in a box marked "Return to sender."



I'm getting a similar vibe here :blink:


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## JPINFV (Oct 6, 2008)

Great minds think alike.


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## BossyCow (Oct 6, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> Great minds think alike.



:blush: Aw gee thanks.. Now when are they going to start selling wine in the little juice size boxes?


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## mikie (Oct 6, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> :blush: Aw gee thanks.. Now when are they going to start selling wine in the little juice size boxes?



For the kiddies??


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## marineman (Oct 6, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> :blush: Aw gee thanks.. Now when are they going to start selling wine in the little juice size boxes?



I always thought those boxes were meant for a single serving, maybe that's where I went wrong.


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## sixmaybemore (Oct 6, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Okay, I don't particularly like beer, but I'll open up a nice box of wine for me and airwaygoddess..... and instead of chips.. I'm opening up a big Costco bag of pistachios and putting out a bowl for shells.



What kind of wine would that be? Gewertzaminer? Or maybe a Pinot Grigio? Or perhaps a Riesling?


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## sixmaybemore (Oct 6, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> :blush: Aw gee thanks.. Now when are they going to start selling wine in the little juice size boxes?



Buy it by the case at Costco, and takes up less space in the frig. Just put what you need on in there. Plus, if you put it in the freezer and forget you put it in there, the bottle won't explode (not that I've done that or anything.....).


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## BossyCow (Oct 6, 2008)

sixmaybemore said:


> What kind of wine would that be? Gewertzaminer? Or maybe a Pinot Grigio? Or perhaps a Riesling?



Box wine has to be a chardonnay or perhaps a pink wine, white zin?


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## sixmaybemore (Oct 6, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Box wine has to be a chardonnay or perhaps a pink wine, white zin?



Pink wine? Really? I'm going to have to look next time I go to Fred Meyer. I'm curious now.


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## Sapphyre (Oct 6, 2008)

sixmaybemore said:


> What kind of wine would that be? Gewertzaminer? Or maybe a Pinot Grigio? Or perhaps a Riesling?



Mmmmmm, Gewertzminer.  

/me backs away from the bottle, no drinking on duty.


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## Hal9000 (Oct 8, 2008)

I knew a kid that somehow got lights for his POV once...told him to ditch them because he was going to get himself in an accident.  He informed me that he didn't feel adrenaline when the pager went off anymore because he'd "seen things that would make grown men cry."  This guy was on a local fire service and had been on a total of three calls. He now has his license suspended.  

*sigh*

He apparently thought his little red light gave him the right to go 72 in a 35.  And he also thought he could use it just to...move people when he wanted. 

I agree with Ken Threet on a lot of ideas regarding lights and sirens and such.


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## 2boss4 (Oct 8, 2008)

i agree very much that people abuse them. I think that they can very often pose more of a threat to people than they can help. There are many who speed, run through lights, and drive recklessly and its unacceptable. I think until there is a better way to handle this problem, it is up to the user to really assess they're own use of any emergency lighting. I am careful to use my light responsibly. I can say there were codes or other serious calls where it has saved me time getting to the building.  I can also honestly say that I use it very sparingly however. I agree that emergency lights are dangerous when abused (and a lot of people do abuse them), but I know that it has allowed me to  get a slow-poke or a driver with their head in the clouds to pull over for me when someone's life depended on my response. I have two brothers who are going to start responding via personal vehicles, and I try to set a good example because I know that there are a lot of whackers that set bad ones. Just my thoughts.


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## Hal9000 (Oct 8, 2008)

2boss4 said:


> i agree very much that people abuse them. I think that they can very often pose more of a threat to people than they can help. There are many who speed, run through lights, and drive recklessly and its unacceptable. I think until there is a better way to handle this problem, it is up to the user to really assess they're own use of any emergency lighting. I am careful to use my light responsibly. I can say there were codes or other serious calls where it has saved me time getting to the building.  I can also honestly say that I use it very sparingly however. I agree that emergency lights are dangerous when abused (and a lot of people do abuse them), but I know that it has allowed me to  get a slow-poke or a driver with their head in the clouds to pull over for me when someone's life depended on my response. I have two brothers who are going to start responding via personal vehicles, and I try to set a good example because I know that there are a lot of whackers that set bad ones. Just my thoughts.



I think  those are good thoughts.  I know a couple on a volunteer service that are very professional and have used their lights well.  Their neighbors know them and will be courteous to the light.  Furthermore, they sometimes are first on scene to some things and the light can help prevent people from getting smashed.

Ultimately, a lot of stuff in EMS is case by case.  Unfortunately, a lot of "Sparkies" like too get hyped up over a light, which can be bad.  Good examples are the way to go.  I do not ever see myself needing, wanting, or using a light.  I have a sticker on my car and that's about it.  The sticker has helped once when I came upon a wreck. 

Anyway, I think you made a mature post, so I really don't have any problems.   I just see lights abused a lot, and it bothers me.  But so do snotty people, canker sores, and a generalized lack of steak for dinner tonight.


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