# Med Majors



## rwik123 (Jan 21, 2011)

Hey Guys.

I don't know if this has been touched upon in a thread, but I couldn't find one so far.

I know there are many members here that are on a pre-med track or are in medical schools, or even a doctor. I will be entering college next year, and am very interested in medicine, and planning on trying to get into medical school. My question is do medical schools care about majors? I have heard many people preach the idea that you shouldn't at any cost major in bio or a pre-med geared major, but something totally unrelated or something like psych. I would rather be in a generic major and be more prepared through a major like Bio, than major in a totally unrelated major and fill the requirements. It seems like that would put me at a disadvantage...plus isnt medical school admittance all upon GPA, MCAT and resume? I don't think someone should who majors in an unrelated subject should be favored over a Bio student. Opinions or guidance? Or am I totally wrong with everything i've heard.

Thanks!


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 21, 2011)

1.  Asking about medical school on an EMS forums is kind of like asking about becoming a Cordon Bleu chef on a forum for Burger King employees.
2.  Try searching this topic on www.studentdoctor.net forums.  In fact, do a specific search for the posts of "DropkickMurphy".   The posts are acerbic, blistering and often sarcastic, but it's honesty nothing more and nothing less.
3.  http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=21458&highlight=medical+school



> I have heard many people preach the idea that you shouldn't at any cost major in bio or a pre-med geared major, but something totally unrelated or something like psych.



Pick a major based on what you want to do if you're one of the majority who don't wind up in medical school. Undergrad psych actually probably has more applicability to medicine than undergrad bio or undergrad chem.



> and am very interested in medicine, and planning on trying to get into medical school



So are about 50% of non-art, non-music and non-theater students.  Interest for most wanes about the time they hit organic chem or when they first realize that being a physician isn't glamorous or exciting like they saw on _Grey's Anatomy_ or _ER_. 



> My question is do medical schools care about majors?



As a general rule, no.  Major in what you want to do when you are unable to get into medical school or what you can maintain a good GPA in and still fit in the med school admissions requirements.  It doesn't matter if it's Sanskrit, biomedical engineering, or underwater basket weaving.  



> and resume


Research.  Anything else is fluff.  Medical schools could care less if you're a EMT or paramedic while an undergraduate. 



> I would rather be in a generic major and be more prepared through a major like Bio, than major in a totally unrelated major and fill the requirements.



So you want to find yourself unable to find work once you most likely don't get into medical school?


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## JPINFV (Jan 21, 2011)

If you like biology, go  major in biology. The thing with biology as a major is too many people equate pre-med with biology and feel that they have to major in biology when they don't. The courses that matter as a pre-med are essentially the courses that are required. Basic biology, general chemistry (really important actually, but on a fundlemental level, not a specifics level), organic chemistry (at a thought process level. I'm conivinced that this is a requirment more because of the thought needed to go through figuring out synthesis problems than the actual material), and biochemistry (which is a requirment at some schools, but not all). Medical schools teach science, including basic medical science. As such, courses like anatomy and physiology aren't all that important as an undergrad pre-med student. 

Really, the only majors I'd avoid is a "pre-med" major (mostly because if it doesn't work out, you're stuck with a pretty worthless degree) and health care related degrees. For example, don't be in a BSN program because you want to go to medical school.


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## JPINFV (Jan 21, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Research.  Anything else is fluff.  Medical schools could care less if you're a EMT or paramedic while an undergraduate.



I'd say it's a little more complex than that. In general, a well rounded, strong applicant will have some sort of clinical and volunteer experiences to go along with research. EMS does count towards clinical experience, but it's near the bottom and completely useless if you just have a license but never used it. I think the problem with EMS is that too many students like going, "Look what skills I can do!" instead of a more nuanced, "Here's what I've observed about the health care system and medicine though this experience." Additionally, I'd suggest that any clinical experience is also supplemented with some sort of shadowing, even if it's one day. 

Clinical, research, and volunteer experience won't make up for poor grades or MCAT, but a glaring lack of them is just one more reason why they might take the other guy who has them. The vast majority of schools are looking at 5000+ initial applicants for 100-200 spots, and if you don't make the cut for interviews (normally something around 700 spots), they won't have anything besides the personal statement to know what makes you unique.


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## Sandog (Jan 22, 2011)

> Really, the only majors I'd avoid is a "pre-med" major (mostly because if it doesn't work out, you're stuck with a pretty worthless degree) and health care related degrees. For example, don't be in a BSN program because you want to go to medical school.



Tell me about it... I dropped out in year 3 when I discovered I could do squat as a bio major. Now I am looking into forestry, at least there I can work as a ranger.


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## medicRob (Jan 22, 2011)

rwik123 said:


> Hey Guys.
> 
> I don't know if this has been touched upon in a thread, but I couldn't find one so far.
> 
> ...




I just submitted my application to medical school on AMCAS yesterday and scheduled my MCAT for March 26th. I decided instead of going the 3+1 Pre-Med path, where you complete 3 years of undergraduate work and then are awarded a bachelors after successful completion of 1 year od medical school, and opted for a degree in chemistry with an emphasis in biology (Biochem). 


The reason I chose that degree is based on several factors..

1. The MCAT has tons of chemistry. 
2. I checked the admissions stats for the medical school I was wanting to apply to and saw that they had accepted more students with degrees in chemistry and biology than any other degree. 

The requirements for admission to each medical school differs.. However, the majority if not all require that you complete 8 hours inorganic chem, 8 hours organic with preference to those who have completed biochem as well, algebra based physics, statistics, and courses of the like.. You do not need a degree to apply to medical school, you must meet the requirements and have completed the appropriate courses that are outlined in the med school's admission requirements.. However, a degree in a lot of situations will make you more competitive overall, as well as help to prepare you for the MCAT.

My advice to you is to log on to the site of the Med school you want to go to, look at the admissions requirements, then take a print off of these requirements to a student advisor  at the University where you wish to pursue your undergraduate education, and let them offer you suggestions on which of their programs meet these requirements (Pre-Med, Biology, Chemistry, etc) as well as give you information on how to become competitive.

Also, ask if the University you are wanting to attend has any programs allowing undergraduates to participate in academic research with the faculty and/or graduate students. The University I went too actually allowed undergraduates to actively pursue research alongside faculty, a privelege that is usually only afforded to graduate students in some Universities. 


Good luck.


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## JPINFV (Jan 22, 2011)

medicRob said:


> I just submitted my application to medical school on AMCAS yesterday and scheduled my MCAT for March 26th.
> I decided instead of going the 3+1 Pre-Med path, where you complete 3 years of undergraduate work and then are awarded a bachelors after successful completion of 1 year od medical school, and opted for a degree in chemistry with an emphasis in biology (Biochem).



Just curious, are you in a BS/MD combined program? 



> You do not need a degree to apply to medical school, you must meet the requirements and have completed the appropriate courses that are outlined in the med school's admission requirements.. However, a degree in a lot of situations will make you more competitive overall, as well as help to prepare you for the MCAT.



I wouldn't quite agree with this. Outside of the formal BS/MD combined programs, a degree does not make you competitive. However a lack of degree (or being on track to complete a degree) makes you extremely uncompetitive. 




> My advice to you is to log on to the site of the Med school you want to go to, look at the admissions requirements, then take a print off of these requirements to a student advisor  at the University where you wish to pursue your undergraduate education, and let them offer you suggestions on which of their programs meet these requirements (Pre-Med, Biology, Chemistry, etc) as well as give you information on how to become competitive.


However, take the advisor's advice with a grain of salt. They aren't always the best sources of information on the topic.


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## medicRob (Jan 22, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Just curious, are you in a BS/MD combined program?



No, I pursued an undergraduate degree in chemistry. My intent was Pre-med, but my path was chemistry. 


As far as a degree making you competitive, I came to the decision to get my degree in chemistry after having reviewed the admission stats for the medical school I wanted to attend, the stats showed that more people with degrees in chemistry and biology were getting in to this particular school. However, this might not be because the degree made them more competitive, rather it could just be that these individuals were better prepared for the MCAT and as a result, made a higher score. 


As far as the advisor's opinion, I think given this individuals confusion as to the admissions requirements of med school that the best option for them is to speak to an advisor. I was part of an awesome club called, "Chem-Med" club where we actually were able to speak one on one with med school admissions counselors, physicians who had graduated our state medical programs, as well as learn more about the profession than what is made to look so glamourous on television. 

My Pre-Med advisor happened to be an MD/PhD, he was the head of the whole department and acted as sort of a liason between his undergraduate students and the various medical schools in the area, offering us several opportunities to speak with them one on one and setting up meetings for advisement with regard to a particular school and its requirements.


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## JPINFV (Jan 22, 2011)

medicRob said:


> No, I pursued an undergraduate degree in chemistry. My intent was Pre-med, but my path was chemistry.
> 
> 
> As far as a degree making you competitive, I came to the decision to get my degree in chemistry after having reviewed the admission stats for the medical school I wanted to attend, the stats showed that more people with degrees in chemistry and biology were getting in to this particular school. However, this might not be because the degree made them more competitive, rather it could just be that these individuals were better prepared for the MCAT and as a result, made a higher score.


Ah, I asked because of the entire first year of medical school counting as the last year of undergrad along with applying really late in the cycle. If you just submitted now, by the time you get your secondaries submitted almost all of the interview spots are going to be filled. 



> My Pre-Med advisor happened to be an MD/PhD, he was the head of the whole department and acted as sort of a liason between his undergraduate students and the various medical schools in the area, offering us several opportunities to speak with them one on one and setting up meetings for advisement with regard to a particular school and its requirements.



Ahh, gotcha. My undergrad didn't have any sort of special advising for the premed students and I've heard enough stories both online and in person from other people who've gotten terrible advice, such as taking an "Intro to general, organic, and biochemistry" course would count for both g-chem and o-chem. Unfortunately he's in the Caribbean now.


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## medicRob (Jan 22, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Ah, I asked because of the entire first year of medical school counting as the last year of undergrad along with applying really late in the cycle. If you just submitted now, by the time you get your secondaries submitted almost all of the interview spots are going to be filled.




Now, the school I went too did have a 3 + 1 BS/MD program where after successful completion of the 1st year of med school, you were awarded your bachelors. However, I chose not to go that route. 

The school I applied to has a deadline of November 15th for AMCAS submission and MCATS. I take my MCAT on March 26 at Pro-Metric in Nashville.

I guess the point I want the OP to take away from my posts is that all medical schools are different, and that you need to cater your education to meet the needs of that particular program.. Just as I had to substitute, "College Algebra" in my undergraduate nursing with "Probability and Statistics" because it was a requirement for admission to the MSN, ACNP program I was planning on entering after my BSN. 


Here are some of the stats for the program I have applied too: 

*Average GPA/MCAT*

Year	MCAT Score
2000	11.1
2001	11.1
2002	11.2
2003	10.8
2004	11.2
2005	11.3
2006	11.3
2007	11.5
2008	11.3


*Interview Statistics*

Academic Year	Number of Applicants	Number of Interviews
2008-2009	                     4890	                      952
2007-2008	                     5032	                      906
2006-2007	                      4787	                      927
2005-2006                 	      4373	                      1068
2004-2005	                      4369	                       995
2003-2004	                      3700	                        844 

*Undergraduate Schools Represented (Shortened for the sake of the thread)*

First Year Class Entering in 2006-2010

Andrews University	1
Auburn University	1
Barnard College	1
Barry University	1
Baylor University	1
Beloit College	1
Birmingham Southern College	1
Bowdoin College	1
Spelman College	1
Stanford University	8
Stetson University	1
Truman State University	1
Tufts University	1
Union College	1
University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa	1
University of Alabama at Birmingham	4
University of Alabama in Huntsville	1
University of Arizona	4
University of Calgary	1
University of California - Berkeley	9
University of California - Davis	1
University of California - Irvine	2
University of California - Los Angeles	5
University of California - San Diego	4
University of Chicago	3
University of Cincinnati	1
University of Colorado at Boulder	1
University of Florida	8
University of Georgia	6
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	4
University of Kansas	1
University of Kentucky	3
University of Louisville	1
University of Maryland - Baltimore County	3
University of Maryland - College Park	3
University of Miami	4
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor	2
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities	1
University of Mississippi	1
University of Missouri - Columbia	1
University of Missouri - Kansas City	1
University of Nebraska at Lincoln	1
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill	6
University of Notre Dame	21
University of Oklahoma	2
University of Pennsylvania	12
University of Pittsburgh	3
University of Rochester	1
University of South Alabama	1
University of South Carolina at Columbia	2
University of South Florida	1
University of Southern California	2
University of Tennessee - Chattanooga	2
University of Tennessee - Knoxville	2
University of Texas at Austin	3
University of Tulsa	1
University of Virginia	11
University of Wisconsin - Madison	2
Vanderbilt University	95
Vassar College	2
Virginia Commonwealth University	1
Wake Forest University	3
Warren Wilson College	1
Washington and Lee University	4
Washington University in St. Louis	16
West Virginia University	1
Westminster College	1
Williams College	1
Wittenberg University	2
Yale University	14


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## JPINFV (Jan 22, 2011)

medicRob said:


> The school I applied to has a deadline of November 15th for AMCAS submission and MCATS. I take my MCAT on March 26 at Pro-Metric in Nashville.



Err... You do realize that the application season starts in June. The November 15th for the current application cycle was last November.


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## Veneficus (Jan 22, 2011)

Wow, 

2 pages of SDN garbage. 

Can we have it moved over there?


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## JPINFV (Jan 22, 2011)

Veneficus said:


> Wow,
> 
> 2 pages of SDN garbage.
> 
> Can we have it moved over there?



:glare:


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## medicRob (Jan 22, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Err... You do realize that the application season starts in June. The November 15th for the current application cycle was last November.



Yes, June 2nd. I created my AMCAS profile, scheduled my MCAT, paid the $235, and began the process. 



> AAMC ID: 13220361
> Date:	Saturday, March 26, 2011 08:00 AM
> Location:	PROMETRIC TEST CENTER
> Address:	 230 GREAT CIRCLE RD
> ...



Once the full apps open up, I will complete the requirements, and submit my transcripts.


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## JPINFV (Jan 22, 2011)

medicRob said:


> Yes, June 2nd. I created my AMCAS profile, scheduled my MCAT, paid the $235, and began the process.




Ok, I think I've figured it out. You registered for the MCAT. The 2012 AMCAS application isn't out yet, which was why I got confused when you said that you just submitted your AMCAS.


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## medicRob (Jan 22, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Ok, I think I've figured it out. You registered for the MCAT. The 2012 AMCAS application isn't out yet, which was why I got confused when you said that you just submitted your AMCAS.



Yeah, I probably should have clarified. I am just BEGINNING the whole process required for admission consideration to medical school.  The $235 was a big step, lol.


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## silver (Jan 22, 2011)

rwik123 said:


> Hey Guys.
> 
> I don't know if this has been touched upon in a thread, but I couldn't find one so far.
> 
> ...



As a junior bio major I would tell you to major in whatever you like in college. As much as I like bio, specifically the molec and biochem aspect, it is all consuming as a major and has limited the different programs that I want to do. So if you don't really love it, take a different major. For example, I wanted a second major, but I would need to overload semesters. I also wanted to go abroad, but I didn't want to take classes over the summer.

With that being said, if you do well on the required classes (bio, physics, chem, ochem etc) you won't be in any way disadvantaged when applying to med school. You may need to study a bit more on the MCATs, but the amount isn't that significant.


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## rescue99 (Jan 22, 2011)

rwik123 said:


> Hey Guys.
> 
> I don't know if this has been touched upon in a thread, but I couldn't find one so far.
> 
> ...



There isn't a thing wrong with wanting to remain in the sciences even if med school is not part of the picture. If science is where you want to be, stick with that. It's an employable field that pays fairly well. Oh, and med schools still consider EMT as a door ajar. There are sooooo many premed and grads in our classes here, many from Michigan State and U of M. I probably average 3-4 a semester myself. This is an increase from 2 years ago, because for a while we weren't getting many at all. Something has changed again. It appears so anyway.


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 22, 2011)

> Oh, and med schools still consider EMT as a door ajar.



Care to elaborate?  I am not sure I follow what you are getting at.



> It's an employable field that pays fairly well.



Is that why so many straight bio majors are unemployed coming out of undergraduate?  It's an "employable field" if you have a masters or doctorate, but the statistics in most areas don't bear out that you're going to be able to find a job in the field with a bachelors.  Not that I am discouraging a science education but I don't think it's fair to tell a bunch of kids "yeah, you'll have no problem finding a career" when most sources say that there's not that much of a need for bachelors level personnel.  If they want a _career _in the sciences (rather than just being someone's lab monkey), they pretty much should plan on heading straight to graduate school.


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## rescue99 (Jan 22, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Care to elaborate?  I am not sure I follow what you are getting at.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why so many straight bio majors are unemployed coming out of undergraduate?  It's an "employable field" if you have a masters or doctorate, but the statistics in most areas don't bear out that you're going to be able to find a job in the field with a bachelors.  Not that I am discouraging a science education but I don't think it's fair to tell a bunch of kids "yeah, you'll have no problem finding a career" when most sources say that there's not that much of a need for bachelors level personnel.  If they want a _career _in the sciences (rather than just being someone's lab monkey), they pretty much should plan on heading straight to graduate school.



Well, if one lives here, we're a research area with 5 (OMC/Oakland/Wayne State/U of M and MSU) medical schools alone, in about a 100 mile radius. There is  oportunity for science majors. I'm pretty confident that this is not the only area in the country like ours. An undergrad will get a job if he / she is into research and planning on working toward a Master's. And of course people are unemployed right out of undergrad....they've been in school! This site seems to be filled with so many know-it-all personalities. :glare:


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## usafmedic45 (Jan 22, 2011)

> Well, if one lives here, we're a research area with 5 (OMC/Oakland/Wayne State/U of M and MSU) medical schools alone, in about a 100 mile radius. There is oportunity for science majors.



You're talking to a former WSU/VA research employee.  You're also talking to one who previously worked for a business and economic development center when he was an undergrad.  If you really want to debate the economic state of Michigan when it comes to science education, I'm more than happy to call one of my former coworkers and get the actual numbers for you rather than just assuming that your observations are correct.



> An undergrad will get a job if he / she is into research and planning on *working toward a Master's.*



That's the key phrase right there.  If you're not going on for graduate work, you're not going to get in the door at most labs and if you do, you're relegated to the bottom rungs of the lab.  That's what I am getting at.  There's a difference between getting a job with a bachelors and getting a job while you're a grad student.  



> This site seems to be filled with so many know-it-all personalities.



Pot, meet kettle.  Unless you have a degree in economics or business that you've not mentioned, you're just as much of a "know-it-all personality" as you "defend" your stance by attacking those who dissent from your view of things as being.  You're giving your own personal assessment of the area based on "Well, we have a lot of med schools around here".   

Got any hard data to back up your contentions?  If not, then you're just as much a blowhard as you accuse those who disagree with you of being because being a paramedic instructor really equips one to judge this sort of thing.  I may not be an economist, but I worked in the area and _in the field_ you're trying to tell me I don't know about.   

By the way, there are seven medical schools in the region if you want to set it as being a 100 mile "as the crow flies" radius of Detroit:
1-U of M
2-Wayne State
3-Oakland
4-MSU Osteopathic
5-MSU Allopathic
6-University of Toledo
7-University of Western Ontario


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