# Diabetic EMT



## Jon925 (Jul 20, 2010)

What's goin on ladies and gentlemen?

Alright so I have a couple questions, I am currently a unemployed NREMT-B. I've been working on all of the appropriate steps for being able to start my career, but the only thing thats currently holding me back is the DMV, as I am a type-1 insulin dependent Diabetic, there are quite a few loop-holes that I must jump through before being able to get my ambulance drivers cert. 

I have completed my dl-51, medical examiners notification etc. my endocrinologist determined that I am fully capable of operating an ambulance, but thats not enough, my driving record is clean as a whistle, but thats not enough, Ive never had a diabetic related accident, nor have I been involved in any driving related accident, but thats not enough either. After speaking with the DMV today, all I can do is submit the application and wait. They informed me that they are " backed-up 90 days " and that I have a " 50/50 " chance of getting either approved or denied. Although I have no idea what that would be based off of.

Basically, I am itching to start my career in EMS, if anyone has any advice or opinions on the best route for me to take as of right now I would greatly appreciate it. I live in contra costa county, I was thinking about possibly trying to find an ambulance company that would just hire an EMT attendant, rather than a driver, but I'm really not sure how much luck I would have with that. My girlfriends dad, who was a EMT-P with AMR said that I may be able to explain the situation to the ambulance company and see if I could just get a job as an attendant, but regardless, im still not sure if I would have any luck with that. I'm looking for any, and all options to start working as an EMT-B without having to wait 90 days ( or more, knowing the DMV ) for the red or green light on my ambulance drivers cert...

SO! With that being said, I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback! And thanks for taking the time to help!


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## 8jimi8 (Jul 20, 2010)

sounds like volunteering may be your only option, my friend.  Don't worry it never hurts to show up at the door with 6 months of experience.


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## 8jimi8 (Jul 20, 2010)

i do worry tho. that you may, at some later point, end up complicating the scene and compromising patient care, if at some point you inadvertently become a 2nd patient.

One who, I might add, would probably take priority over the patient you responded to.

I'm not saying that you are irresponsible, or incapable.  Just that you are human.

just my humble opinion


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## JPINFV (Jul 20, 2010)

There are plenty of ambulance companies who will hire non-driving EMTs. So you can always start applying or talking to HR departments as you wait.

Unfortunately, a strict reading of the physical requirments for the Ambulace Driver Certification doesn't look good.



> A person is physically qualified to drive a [commercial] motor vehicle is that person:
> ...
> (3)Has no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of diabetes mellitus currently requiring insulin for control.




However, it does later talk about oral hypoglycemic agents the possible exemptions. Also these rules are made more for long haul truckers than EMTs, so the DMV might grant an exemption based on that.


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## Jon925 (Jul 20, 2010)

Appreciate the feedback, the thing is that I know of a number of diabetic ems professionals including emt's and ff's that have been doing this for a long time, including many, many people that have reported type 1 insulin dependent diabetes online saying that they work in EMS with no problems at all. Unfortunately, none of which I have had the opportunity to speak with, yet. But I know they are out there.

Technology has come a long way and controlling diabetes and managing normal blood glucose levels is getting easier and easier, a simple glucose tablet that can be easily put in your pocket can quickly bring up sugar levels in a case of not being able to eat, or some minor form of hypoglycemia. Regardless, I understand what youre saying, being human, anything can happen.


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## Jon925 (Jul 20, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Also these rules are made more for long haul truckers than EMTs, so the DMV might grant an exemption based on that.



Right, as they told me at the DMV, these rules are generally established for a Class B CDL, the difference is that the ambulance cert. isnt technically considered a CDL, the weight or peoples in transport simply just isnt there.

Although I dont know if that makes a difference or will sway their opinion, like I said, they told me I have about a 50/50 chance. Despite that, I would love to start working in the field.


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## somePerson (Jul 20, 2010)

It's deffinitely possible, I worked a guy that was a type 2 diabetic. He actually went into a diabetic coma one time, and didn't wake up for a call, so we had to push d50. Our management was cool, so they just away his driving privilages for a while, than he got them back after about 6 months. It's deffinitely possible to get a job with diabetes even as a driver. My old partner even managed to get a job with LA county sheriffs with his diabetic issues, even though he had to prove that he had his diabetes under control for a year.

Also, there was another guy that was a Type 1-insulin dependant diabetic and he was also a driver, and he never had any problems.


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## Jon925 (Jul 20, 2010)

Thats what I like to hear...

So I guess my best bet would just be to either start applying as an attendant while I wait on the DMV or look for some volunteer work ?


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## CAOX3 (Jul 21, 2010)

I just read the qualifications to obtain a ambulance drivers lic. in California and Im guessing fifty percent of current EMS providers wouldnt qualify.  

Come on you cant get a lic. if you have had a heart attack, arthritis or high blood pressure.....Ridiculous.

I got a few words for them Americans with disabilities act.


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## Aidey (Jul 21, 2010)

Good luck with that, it won't get anywhere. California treats an ambulance driver's license as a CDL does it not? For regular CDLs there are restrictions on who can get a CDL on the Federal and State level, so those regulations are obviously legal. 

When I worked primary care we did CDL physicals. You couldn't be on certain medications (including insulin), have HTN or several other conditions. Whether we like it or not companies can restrict who they hire based on health conditions that pose a safety risk. The ADA can't force a company to hire a blind man as a delivery driver, or a bank teller. I also believe that if a company's insurance won't cover someone that is justifiable reason to not hire them. For example, a delivery driver who has had a seizure within the last 2 months, and the company's insurance requires 6 months.


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## Jon925 (Jul 21, 2010)

Right, regardless of how well my diabetes is controlled, I already knew that I would run into complications with this choice of career, however, as I said before, it can be done, and if there is a will theres a way, if I have to find a private ambulance company that hires attendants and work there, until I get enough experience for medic school, then thats what I will do.

I know there are plenty of medics that dont drive. I have no intention of giving up. 

I think that there are so many common misconceptions about diabetes in EMS. Where as someone with some severe neuropathy may not be able to recognize the symptoms of hypoglycemia, someone with well controlled diabetes can recognize the first sign of low blood sugar levels well before they cause an issue. I realize that this wont sway the DMV's decision, but...It is in my honest opinion BS. 

If at any time my ability to operate an ambulance was impaired in any way it would be a simple fix to simply have my partner drive instead while I took a second to reach into my pocket and pop a glucose tablet in my mouth.


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## MrBrown (Jul 21, 2010)

Brown wishes you the best of luck my friend!


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 21, 2010)

Did I miss something? One of my best friends is a diabetic medic, and one of my instructors was also a diabetic Paramedic. They both operated 911 ambulances...


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## JPINFV (Jul 21, 2010)

schulz said:


> Did I miss something?



Which state makes up the South-Left coast of the United States?


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## MrBrown (Jul 21, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Which state makes up the South-Left coast of the United States?



Nevada.  Oh that's after the "big one" tho


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## LucidResq (Jul 21, 2010)

I'd move. 

A good friend of mine is a type I diabetic EMT. She works with me at the amusement park so she doesn't drive. Regardless, I think the important thing is that she is a nazi about controlling her diabetes. She has a pump, very carefully controls what she eats and when, checks her sugars often, and responds quickly to any sense that she's getting low. Those of us who have worked with her for a while also can tell when she's getting a little bit low (although she'll let us know too). She is an awesome EMT and takes really good care of her patients. 

I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not but she loves this website. They say it best.... "If you are looking for a "Poor Me, I am diabetic" support group, you've come to the wrong place."

This shirt alone is enough to make me like them....


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## Jon925 (Jul 21, 2010)

LucidResq said:


> I'd move.
> I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not but she loves this website. They say it best.... "If you are looking for a "Poor Me, I am diabetic" support group, you've come to the wrong place."
> 
> This shirt alone is enough to make me like them....



Thank you everyone for the feedback, any and all opinions are very much appreciated...


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## firecoins (Jul 21, 2010)

MOVE!  California sucks....at least for EMS.


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## wyoskibum (Jul 21, 2010)

*Consider a clinical job while waiting for driver cert*



Jon925 said:


> What's goin on ladies and gentlemen?
> 
> Alright so I have a couple questions, I am currently a unemployed NREMT-B. I've been working on all of the appropriate steps for being able to start my career, but the only thing thats currently holding me back is the DMV, as I am a type-1 insulin dependent Diabetic, there are quite a few loop-holes that I must jump through before being able to get my ambulance drivers cert.



Have you considered looking for and applying for a clinical position such as a ER Tech?  It would give you an opportunity to use your skills, learn, and gain experience while you are waiting for the DMV to correct their cranial-rectal inversion.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 21, 2010)

It must just be your state and also the fact you need a CDL? In Oregon you just need a regular drivers licence.


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## Jon925 (Jul 21, 2010)

Im really loving all the feedback, ok...

so I have actually looked into becoming an ER tech, but as far as I know, at least in my area, generally they only hire people with field experience, which, at this point I dont have. I guess push comes to shove, I could do some volunteer work to build some experience that way.

Also, I have read that a lot of other states dont require a CDL ambulance cert...I dont really know the reasoning for one state to require it while another doesnt but I guess rules are rules...Regardless, Im not really sure if thats an option at the moment. But possibly sometime down the road it may be.

Those of you that said you have diabetic friends that are also drivers, can you elaborate a little, does your state / county require a CDL Ambulance cert ? if so, any idea how they went about getting through the loops with the DMV ?


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 21, 2010)

Jon925 said:


> Those of you that said you have diabetic friends that are also drivers, can you elaborate a little, does your state / county require a CDL Ambulance cert ? if so, any idea how they went about getting through the loops with the DMV ?


No... You can operate any EMS/FIRE emergency vehicle with a standard drivers licence with no CDL. It says on the back of every Oregon standard class C "good for any single vehicle with a GVWR of not more than 26,000 pounds with the proper endorsements. ANY EMERGENCY VEHICLE operated by a firefighter" I think the firefighter rule also applies to us, because we do not need an endorsement of any kind or CDL.


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## Jon925 (Jul 21, 2010)

Interesting...I feel thats the way it should be...as I said before, the weight or number of passengers in transport simply isnt there for it to be considered a CDL, although, here it basically is.

Thanks!

I spoke with the coco county medical director, he said basically everything that we have covered in this thread. Basically to try and find a company that will hire a non-driver emt, or possibly to check into industrial sites or hospitals that use EMT's in the ED.

Although I am not entirely sure what other certifications and or training I would need to qualify as an ER Tech.


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## JPINFV (Jul 21, 2010)

This is pure speculation on my part. From looking at the CA Ambulance Drivers Certificate, it looks like the DMV wanted to place reasonable physical standards on drivers, make sure that there was at least some understanding of the law in regards to ambulance operations (every ambulance driver in California, for example, should have no trouble indicating that the only emergency light that matters is the forward facing burning red lamp and that the siren is supposed to be used as needed), and ensure that everyone has a background check (which, as of July 1st of this year, is now required by the state to get an EMT cert instead of being left up to the Local EMS Agency (County EMS). In order to do so, instead of designing a new system, they just took the system that everyone, including local health care providers, was already used to, which was the CDL physical. On one had, I don't necessarily feel unsafe with a well controlled diabetic driving. On the other hand, it's nice to know that uncontrolled epileptics aren't driving ambulances.


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## Roam (Jul 22, 2010)

My wife has been a sheriff's deputy for the past five years with type 1. She is amazing and never lets the diabetes get out of hand. She always carries extra glucose and constantly checks her BGL. My wife didn't have to use any extra paperwork with the DMV when she went to patrol, but we live in a pretty sparse state. Never let diabetes hold you back!

I think every EMT-B is having a hard time finding work (if not let me know where the jobs are!) regardless of medical history. Good luck getting work!


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## alphatrauma (Jul 22, 2010)

*what is it they say about motorcylists?*

... there are 2 kinds, those that have fallen and those that will.


To the *OP*:

I think it is great that you are determined to pursue your professional aspirations, and I'm sure it is very encouraging to read some of the success stories of those that share similar medical conditions. Unfortunately, with insulin dependant diabetes, no matter how vigilant you are with your daily care, you will eventually have an "episode". How severe will it be? Who knows, but it is bound to happen. 

All it takes is for one (medication) non-compliant or undiagnosed individual (not you per say) to ruin for everyone, and I'm sure it has happened in spectacular fashion at some point in the past. This is why you are facing an uphill battle. Don't take it personal, and keep some other options on the table if things don't go your way.

Good Luck!


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## reidnez (Jul 22, 2010)

schulz said:


> It must just be your state and also the fact you need a CDL? In Oregon you just need a regular drivers licence.



It's not a CDL in California either, it's an "certificate" which is added to your existing license (just like a motorcycle endorsement.) You take a written test, get fingerprinted and get a physical. But it doesn't change your class of license, you just get a little piece of paper.


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## wyoskibum (Jul 22, 2010)

Jon925 said:


> Although I am not entirely sure what other certifications and or training I would need to qualify as an ER Tech.



I have seen hospitals that will take an EMT-B or CNA and then give them the additional training needed to be an ED Tech. IE: acquiring 12-leads, phlebotomy.


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## Jon925 (Jul 22, 2010)

wyoskibum said:


> I have seen hospitals that will take an EMT-B or CNA and then give them the additional training needed to be an ED Tech. IE: acquiring 12-leads, phlebotomy.



Thanks! I'll definitely look into that.


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## scems (Jul 29, 2010)

Hey Jon. I'm in literally the exact same situation as you. Type 1 Diabetic. Newly registered NREMT-B. I've never had a severe episode in my life and I'm in excellent control. It really is disgusting how they can pile all type 1 diabetics into one big "liability" catagory. All my life I've been told I can do whatever I want even if i have diabetes yet I always run into the same roadblock. The goverment. 

I'm willing to bet after having this disease for so long that I am healthier than half of the people the dl50 clears. I know my body extremely well and I have a very healthy diet. Yet that's not enough. Ugh. sorry...Keep your head up and let me know how it goes with the state. I'll be applying for mine soon as well.


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## reidnez (Jul 30, 2010)

scems said:


> Hey Jon. I'm in literally the exact same situation as you. Type 1 Diabetic. Newly registered NREMT-B. I've never had a severe episode in my life and I'm in excellent control. It really is disgusting how they can pile all type 1 diabetics into one big "liability" catagory. All my life I've been told I can do whatever I want even if i have diabetes yet I always run into the same roadblock. The goverment.
> 
> I'm willing to bet after having this disease for so long that I am healthier than half of the people the dl50 clears. I know my body extremely well and I have a very healthy diet. Yet that's not enough. Ugh. sorry...Keep your head up and let me know how it goes with the state. I'll be applying for mine soon as well.



I'm not a diabetic myself but I tend to agree with you. It should be the doctor's discretion, period. As long as it's under medical surveillance and continues to stay under control, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to drive. There is no way to eliminate all medical risk; I think I'm pretty healthy, but I could have a brain aneurysm and crash the rig tonight.


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## scems (Jul 31, 2010)

alphatrauma said:


> ... there are 2 kinds, those that have fallen and those that will.
> 
> 
> To the *OP*:
> ...



I agree with everything you said except for what i put in bold. Just because one has type 1 diabetes, doesn't mean they are absolutely guaranteed to have an "episode" as you described it. Being vigilant means checking your blood sugar frequently (an upwards of 8-10 times a day). It means even using a continuous blood glucose montoring system (what I use) that checks your blood glucose every 5 minutes and then transmits the reading directly to your insulin pump. Because it checks your BGL so much, it is able to graph your readings and tell you if you are trending downwards or upwards and will alarm you if your blood sugar is about to go too low. Basically your insulin pump will tell you you're about to go low before you even feel the affects.



reidnez said:


> I'm not a diabetic myself but I tend to agree with you. It should be the doctor's discretion, period. As long as it's under medical surveillance and continues to stay under control, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to drive. There is no way to eliminate all medical risk; I think I'm pretty healthy, but I could have a brain aneurysm and crash the rig tonight.



exactly.

Anyways. I've been doing some surfing and I think our best bet is to contact the American Diabetes Association and ask them the details on the california CDL. I believe there is at least one diabetic in California driving an ambulance and chances are he/she went through the ADA.


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## ajax (Aug 2, 2010)

Roam said:


> I think every EMT-B is having a hard time finding work (if not let me know where the jobs are!) regardless of medical history. Good luck getting work!



Boston, right now. The best way to get an EMS job is to orchestrate a massive educational scandal, have OEMS suspend the licenses of 100s of EMTs, and have a pulse. 

MA does not have a different license designation for ambulance driving. I applied to my job, didn't mention diabetes (but left my pump tubing hanging out of my pocket, as usual), and got the job. 

The only thing I've had to worry about it where to put my pump in the facilities where we have to go inside the 5 gauss line to pick our pt up from MRI.


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## akrall83 (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm getting ready to start this battle myself. I've been type 1 for 20 years and rarely have any kind of issue with my blood sugar, never while driving. I always test before I get behind the wheel. Blanket policies like this infuriate me. There have been numerous studies that show a type 1 diabetic is much less likely to have an accident caused by a medical issue than a type 2 on oral medication, yet type 2's don't have an issue based soley on that diagnosis as long as they aren't being treated with insulin. There are type 1 diabetics who drive ambulances in California, I've met them, but they were grandfathered in before the rules changed at the DMV a few years ago. I'm not giving up though, and if I have to, I'll move out of state for my EMT hours before I start paramedic school.


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## scems (Aug 3, 2010)

akrall83 said:


> I'm getting ready to start this battle myself. I've been type 1 for 20 years and rarely have any kind of issue with my blood sugar, never while driving. I always test before I get behind the wheel. Blanket policies like this infuriate me. There have been numerous studies that show a type 1 diabetic is much less likely to have an accident caused by a medical issue than a type 2 on oral medication, yet type 2's don't have an issue based soley on that diagnosis as long as they aren't being treated with insulin. There are type 1 diabetics who drive ambulances in California, I've met them, but they were grandfathered in before the rules changed at the DMV a few years ago. I'm not giving up though, and if I have to, I'll move out of state for my EMT hours before I start paramedic school.



Good luck with it! I've gathered that there are at least 4 diabetics going through this situation including me so keep us updated on what goes on with the dmv! I'm going to drive down to the dmv tomorrow and try and get some information from the horse's mouth on this whole thing. 

It seems to me like the hard part is the medical examiner's card.


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## Jon925 (Aug 3, 2010)

This thread has grown to be quite inspirational, Im overjoyed that other type 1 diabetics have joined in and are sharing their input. My advice to all of you is hang in there, keep pushing, keep pressing for information, and good things will come. 

The truth of the matter is, that there ARE type 1 diabetics throughout EMS, firefighters, emts and medics alike. They ARE out there, and the chances are they got to where they are through hard work and determination. I can see that you all have that, as do I. 

It truly is said that there is a lot of ignorance and bias when it comes to diabetes, I think we work so much with diabetic complications in the field that its so easy to make the assumption that diabetes is an, vaguely uncontrollable disease that is destined to lead to problems, when in reality, it is extremely controllable. What was said in the above post is absolutely right, with vigorous testing and such, it is very possible, to live an entirely normal life, after all, whose to say you will have an episode if you always know what your bg levels are at because youre constantly testing, whose to say that you will fall too low if you carefully count your carbs through numerous resources including nutritional values etc...

regardless of all the loopholes that the DMV may put you through for a CDL, ive been taking steps, as to apply for attendant positions, rather than a driver position, for the time being. Ive also been looking into jobs as an ER tech, and ALSO, considering moving out of state, if need be, to get the experience I need before medic school. Whether or not the CDL causes an issue, dont let it hold you back, and dont ever let anyone tell you that it CANT be done.

Keep up the hard work !  It'll pay off


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## livewiremaxx (Aug 3, 2010)

What a topic, this is a great discussion.  Being diabetic type 2 with insulin its hard because you always feel singled out.  People forget that they too can have any kind of episode of their own thats worse than what we go through and it doesnt hinder them in getting a certification.  (Alergic reactions, cardiac, cancer etc... )

I am in WA state and so far havent found anything hindering me in driving - currently i am on with a volunteer agency that "Does" transport, and is a transporting agency.  so I do a lot of transfers and normal medical calls.  

Maybe for experience you can get into a volunteer position where you dont have to drive? Then you can look at ER tech spots there in CA.  I think ER tech would be an exciting job and am applying for those myself.


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## livewiremaxx (Aug 3, 2010)

What a topic, this is a great discussion.  Being diabetic type 2 with insulin its hard because you always feel singled out.  People forget that they too can have any kind of episode of their own thats worse than what we go through and it doesnt hinder them in getting a certification.  (Alergic reactions, cardiac, cancer etc... )

I am in WA state and so far havent found anything hindering me in driving - currently i am on with a volunteer agency that "Does" transport, and is a transporting agency.  so I do a lot of transfers and normal medical calls.  

Maybe for experience you can get into a volunteer position where you dont have to drive? Then you can look at ER tech spots there in CA.  I think ER tech would be an exciting job and am applying for those myself.


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## Jon (Aug 12, 2010)

Jon - I spent 3 weeks down in Louisiana after Katrina with a partner that was a Type I diabetic. He was very careful, and in all the time I worked with him (both home and there) I never saw him have any issues.

If you are careful and well controlled, you should be just fine... but you'll have to hope the poopyheads at the State understand the disease as much as you.


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## gw812 (Aug 13, 2010)

To the OP - choose another state and move.
Seriously, come on down to the Lone Star State! Everything's more awesome here: the country's bigger, the stadiums are bigger, the hats are bigger, the barbecue's bigger, the hair's bigger, the boobies are...

...you get the idea...


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## slb862 (Aug 22, 2010)

*I am a Type 2 diabetic*

I have worked in EMS for a long time.  I found out I was type II a couple of years ago.  My service has never once questioned my ability.  My co-workers are all aware of my diabetes and know what to watch for, and either ask or make sure I am ok.  I do the majority of patient care.  

My advice to you would be to go volunteer and build up your skills, confidence, and "wow" the service you are working for.  Then go for a position that you have worked so hard for.  With experience under your belt, you will not only be confident, you will know how your body reacts to the stress of being on duty, and you will know how to handle it.  

Keep your chin up.  And most certainly keep the faith, EMS is a tough job.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

Jon925 said:


> What's goin on ladies and gentlemen?
> 
> Alright so I have a couple questions, I am currently a unemployed NREMT-B. I've been working on all of the appropriate steps for being able to start my career, but the only thing thats currently holding me back is the DMV, as I am a type-1 insulin dependent Diabetic, there are quite a few loop-holes that I must jump through before being able to get my ambulance drivers cert.
> 
> ...




When I was an LEO, there were two diabetics. Both were considered OK to drive.

The agency was aware of their condition.


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## Hellsbells (Aug 22, 2010)

> i do worry tho. that you may, at some later point, end up complicating the scene and compromising patient care, if at some point you inadvertently become a 2nd patient.



What rubbish, I worked with a guy who was a Type 1 diabetic for a year and half, he never had any problems at all. So if you want to drive an ambulance, come on up to Alberta, Canada.


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## KY_EMT (Aug 25, 2010)

One of my partners I regularly work with is an insulin-dependent diabetic. Just make sure that your bosses and coworkers know about your condition. I keep an eye on my partner when I run with her, make sure everything is OK with her. Diabetes shouldn't keep you from working in EMS. But as stated before in different posts, different agencies do have different policies. Just don't give up  It CAN be done.


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## hagemc (Aug 30, 2010)

I would just start applying for any and all jobs with ambulance companies, even the driving ones.  Most ambulance companies in the East Bay don't hire non-drivers.  I know my company doesn't and we are in AlCo.  I would put in your resume/coverletter that you will be getting your license ASAP and also explain your situation to the person that you drop off your application to.  

Most places that you apply to will take about a month to two months to get to your application and schedule an interview anyways, plus another month or so of training before you are even able to drive. 

(And besides, if you really want a job at AMR out here...you'll be waiting a LONG time!  So there isn't that big of a rush.)


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## scems (Feb 24, 2011)

any updates from any of the type 1 diabetics on here about the CA ambulance driver's cert? I called the DMV driver's safety office and during one call they told me to apply because ambulances technically aren't heavy enough to be considered commercial yet they still use the DL51. Then when i was going to apply, i noticed in order to apply you need the green card from the medical examiner. Well you cannot get a green card from a medical examiner if you have type 1 because it disqualifies you. So called the DMV again and they said no, there are no type 1 diabetics currently driving ambulances in CA. 

Any updates would be appreciated!


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## TransportJockey (Feb 24, 2011)

If you'r willing to move out of state, most states don't have the silly ADL. ONe of my favorite partners is a diabetic and he has no porblems.


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## MrBrown (Feb 24, 2011)

Oh great so you will work with a diabetic but nobody wants to work with blind bugger Brown ....


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## skills82 (Feb 25, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Oh great so you will work with a diabetic but nobody wants to work with blind bugger Brown ....



Because we are scared what Brown might do for us. HAHA


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 25, 2011)

You know it's rules like this that almost force you to lie. Most folks would have just checked the "no medical issues" box on the application and been done with it but you were honest and responsible enough to tell the truth and now they are jerking you around for it. I hope it all works out for you. Good luck.

Just a thought could you get your license in another state and then get reciprocity in yours?


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## JPINFV (Feb 25, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> You know it's rules like this that almost force you to lie. Most folks would have just checked the "no medical issues" box on the application and been done with it but you were honest and responsible enough to tell the truth and now they are jerking you around for it. I hope it all works out for you. Good luck.
> 
> Just a thought could you get your license in another state and then get reciprocity in yours?



Yea... and you better hope that your blood sugar is controlled enough that you aren't spilling sugar into your urine as a urine dip stick is a required test.


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 25, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Yea... and you better hope that your blood sugar is controlled enough that you aren't spilling sugar into your urine as a urine dip stick is a required test.



I know of at least 1 commercial pilot that pulled it off. For 15+ years now. Can't remember the guys name though must have slipped my mind ... maybe my blood sugar is low lol


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## Aidey (Feb 25, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> You know it's rules like this that almost force you to lie. Most folks would have just checked the "no medical issues" box on the application and been done with it but you were honest and responsible enough to tell the truth and now they are jerking you around for it. I hope it all works out for you. Good luck.
> 
> Just a thought could you get your license in another state and then get reciprocity in yours?




It isn't quite that easy. In CA a CDL is required for an ambulance driver's license. Federal law outlines what the medical requirements for a CDL are and diabetes controlled by insulin is an automatically disqualifying condition. This is a standard, and if anyone at the DMV said there was an exemption they were wrong. In order to get a CDL you have to have a medical card, which you can only get from a MD. 

If someone wanted to hide that they had Type I diabetes they would have to do a lot more than check a box, and I bet that falsifying CDL paperwork has some hefty punishments attached if the person gets caught.


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm certainly not suggesting anyone falsify anything. Just that plenty of people probably have and will continue to do so. It just sucks that people like this poor guy have to be treated the same as non compliant diabetics when there is no need to do so.


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## JPINFV (Feb 25, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> I know of at least 1 commercial pilot that pulled it off. For 15+ years now. Can't remember the guys name though must have slipped my mind ... maybe my blood sugar is low lol



Oh, I'm not saying it isn't possible. In fact, it probably is for any remotely competent type 1 diabetic. However if the dip stick comes back positive for glucose, he's going to have to be worked up. When I went to renew mine I was in the middle of moving and just got done with moving furniture from a second floor off campus apartment to a first floor on-campus apartment that I was subletting for summer. Because of it I was positive for trace hematuria and had to go back in for a retest a few days afterward, which came back negative that time. 

I'm just saying that it's not necessarily as simple as saying, "Nope, no medical history."


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## JPINFV (Feb 25, 2011)

Aidey said:


> It isn't quite that easy. In CA a CDL is required for an ambulance driver's license. Federal law outlines what the medical requirements for a CDL are and diabetes controlled by insulin is an automatically disqualifying condition. This is a standard, and if anyone at the DMV said there was an exemption they were wrong. In order to get a CDL you have to have a medical card, which you can only get from a MD.



Not quite. the ADL requires a CDL level physical, but we aren't issued a CDL, nor are we tested in anyway on CDL standards. In terms of granting an ADL, I don't see any Federal reason why the state can't grant waivers for some conditions.


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 25, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> I'm just saying that it's not necessarily as simple as saying, "Nope, no medical history."



Perhaps I exaggerated a bit my bad.


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## msoda (May 2, 2011)

I hate to bump a thread that is a couple months old but I'm in a similar situation, but instead of diabetes I have monocular vision. Even though I have excellent driving skills, and 20/15 in my good eye (20/40 in 'bad' eye) I am not qualified to pass the DL51. I really wish there were waiver programs. 

Anyways, have any of you had any luck? Also, does anyone have a number I can contact for the DMV? All I get is some automated horse:censored::censored::censored::censored:.


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## HotelCo (May 2, 2011)

msoda said:


> I hate to bump a thread that is a couple months old but I'm in a similar situation, but instead of diabetes I have monocular vision. Even though I have excellent driving skills, and 20/15 in my good eye (20/40 in 'bad' eye) I am not qualified to pass the DL51. I really wish there were waiver programs.
> 
> Anyways, have any of you had any luck? Also, does anyone have a number I can contact for the DMV? All I get is some automated horse:censored::censored::censored::censored:.



Leave California. With all of the crap you have to do there, and the crappy job market, why would you want to stay?


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## msoda (May 2, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Leave California. With all of the crap you have to do there, and the crappy job market, why would you want to stay?



Crappy job market but great state. I do have a decent job driving non-CMV trucks but they're going under soon, and I really wanted to change careers.

But yes, hospitals don't really hire newish graduates, I don't know of any ambulance companies in Southern California that would only hire me as an attendant, and as far as I know there aren't really any companies that only hire for events etc. I'd be willing to volunteer, though I only know of one down in Los Angeles.

I have a couple F&F in Arizona but moving there or Oregon and getting a job isn't exactly a sure thing.


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## Aprz (May 2, 2011)

msoda said:


> I have a couple F&F in Arizona but moving there or Oregon and getting a job isn't exactly a sure thing.


Even if you somehow manage to obtain your medical examiner's certificate, and you're the perfect new graduate candidate (e.g. >21 years old, clean driving record, volunteer experience) that has all the necessary certs to go with it (county/state card, NREMT, ambulance driver certificate, AHA CPR, and the fema courses that some ambulance companies require), it's still unlikely you'll get a job in California.


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## msoda (May 2, 2011)

Maybe, but I've known a number of people who've gotten in over the years with no experience, volunteer or otherwise. I meet all those things minus the AD cert, and the only thing holding me back is a nonsense requirement for a _driver_. I could fly a plane, and I drive a 5 ton truck, but not an ambulance and AFAIK, there's no way to get a waiver or have an expert decide if I am fit to drive?


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## johnrsemt (May 3, 2011)

Brown;  it is not that we are afraid what you will do 'for' us,  but  TO us.


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## MrBrown (May 3, 2011)

johnrsemt said:


> Brown;  it is not that we are afraid what you will do 'for' us,  but  TO us.



Whatever are you implying? 

*Brown looks innocently at the Lifepak 12 and Thomas Pack Brown is holding 

Brown says you folks could always try the 60 day mega micronutrient raw diabetes cure diet .... 

Brown away!


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## Jon925 (May 3, 2011)

Hello Hello, 

Sorry I have been absent from my own thread for so very long, but I appreciate all the response and feedback. 

Im sure you'll be happy to know that I have been working as an EMT on a BLS/CCT rig since December now (as an attendant, non-driver) just racking up the experience, and planning on medic school this coming September!


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## msoda (May 3, 2011)

Jon925 said:


> Hello Hello,
> 
> Sorry I have been absent from my own thread for so very long, but I appreciate all the response and feedback.
> 
> Im sure you'll be happy to know that I have been working as an EMT on a BLS/CCT rig since December now (as an attendant, non-driver) just racking up the experience, and planning on medic school this coming September!



Who'd you get picked up with, and what ever happened with the DMV? Did they review anything? I've been reading some of the AMB certification stuff and I've found this: 

*"Medical Disability

The certificate may be refused, suspended or revoked if the driver does not meet the minimum medical standards established by the department in Article 2.1, Sections § 28.18 and 28.19, of Title 13, California Code of Regulations. In addition to determining whether the driver meets the standards, the demands of the duties and responsibilities of an ambulance or school bus driver are considered.

These drivers must possess skills and abilities which exceed those of a regular commercial vehicle driver. Ambulance drivers must perform under emergency conditions, which may involve moving patients on stretchers for unknown distances and in situations such as stairways and other hazards. School bus drivers must cope with hazardous road conditions and children of various ages and degrees of physical mobility.

In evaluating the medical condition, elements such as the hours the driver works, scope of driving, mileage, driving record, and whether the driver compensates for the disability are considered. "

"Review Boards

Upon conclusion of a SCH, SPAB, YOB, GPPV, VDDP or AMB certificate hearing, the hearing officer submits written findings and a proposed decision to a review board located in Sacramento.

The bus driver Certificate Action Review Board and the Ambulance Review Board are each comprised of three members. Each board has a member appointed by the department and California Highway Patrol. In addition, the ambulance driver committee has a member from the Emergency Medical Health Service Authority, and the school bus driver board has a member from the Department of Education.

The members of the review boards render a final decision after a review of the findings and proposed decision. The board's decision may be to sustain, modify, or set aside the department's action. They may also remand a hearing back to the hearing officer if the hearing is incomplete or the recommendation is lacking soundness.

The department notifies the driver of the board's decisions. "*

Also, you mind telling me what number you actually called? All I get is that automated stuff, and that's really no help.


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## YZRider831 (May 19, 2011)

So i am new to this forum but signed up just to post on this thread.  I am a type one diabetic who is (like all the diabetics in the thread) trying to see if i can get my ambulance drivers certificate in California.  Currently I am a First Responder working in a volunteer position in the OHV state parks system responding to medicals on a motorcycle.  I am going to soon start EMT at my local junior collage.  I have been doing some research on this topic and found out that people with type one diabetes are not allowed to get a CDL as stated on the DL51 form. Reading the form i found out that there is a diabetes exemption for the DL51 medical form that you must apply for from the US DOT.  I am hoping that this exemption applies for the ambulance certificate in California because i found out about this on the DL51 form. If someone has used this form with any luck please reply.  I also found out that you can do some hearing thing if your certificate get denied.  I would also like comment on people saying that there are no diabetics driving ambulances in California.  I believe that is not entirely true but during my First Responder test my proctor who was in the paramedic program had a type of diabetes that made her blood sugar drop kinda like type 2 does to a person but the opposite. She found out that i wore a pump and told me that she had a type of diabetes. She told me that she drives an Ambulance for AMR and was able to receive her ambulance drivers certificate.  Now I can tell you that I didn't hear this from my dad's half brother friend's sisters aunt kid but, i was able to shake her hand while she was in her AMR uniform. I don't know if this is hope or not but it might bring some light to this convo.  I want to know what people have to say about this so please post. THANK YOU AND STAY SAFE OUT THERE


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## ArcticKat (May 20, 2011)

Check Here

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?p=306380#post306380


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## Goo (Jul 26, 2011)

Hey I live in Coco county also and I'm in the same boat as you were a year ago. If you're still checking this can you tell me if you found any way to get hired with type 1 diabetes?? Thanks

also what company do you work for as a non-driver?


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## yourfilipinofriend (Apr 28, 2012)

Hate to bring this up again but I got one month left in my EMT Course and Im worried that my EMS career is compromised if Im not going to be able to get a license to drive a rig so Ive been doing research.

I found that there is a driver exemption program for diabetics. Here is the website and application form...

fmcsa .dot. gov/rules-regulations/topics/medical/exemptions.htm

(i cant post links so youll have to take the spaces out of the link that i placed)


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## Goo (Apr 29, 2012)

*That exemption doesn't work*

The federal exemption doesn't work. I tried it and was denied (1) because i'm not yet 21 and (2) because it is for interstate vehicles only. 

Research it a little bit more. It's not worth your time to try and get the fmcsa exemption. The only hope for type 1 diabetics is to move to a state that doesn't require a commercial driver's license to get an ADL (like Nevada).


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## Handsome Robb (Apr 29, 2012)

Goo said:


> The federal exemption doesn't work. I tried it and was denied (1) because i'm not yet 21 and (2) because it is for interstate vehicles only.
> 
> Research it a little bit more. It's not worth your time to try and get the fmcsa exemption. The only hope for type 1 diabetics is to move to a state that doesn't require a commercial driver's license to get an ADL (like Nevada).



There's no such thing as an ADL in Nevada. 

We have a few diabetic medics and EMTs and they have no issues but they also take very good care of themselves. 

Most if not all use an insulin pump if they are IDDM.


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## YZRider831 (Apr 29, 2012)

*Keep your hopes up*

Yeah don't give up on your dreams just because someone said no to drive in California.  I know there are diabetics who take insulin and drive ambulances in California but you are really going to have to fight, its not easy period. You have a right in California for a hearing for the ADL.  In my personal opinion I would go out of state the jobs are better and you don't have to deal with any of the bs involved to drive


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## ECHO3ONE (Jul 19, 2012)

Good luck. Hope it works out for you.


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## xrsm002 (Jul 24, 2012)

I know of some diabetic medics in that do just fine


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## CANDawg (Jul 25, 2012)

Aidey said:


> For regular CDLs there are restrictions on who can get a CDL on the Federal and State level, so those regulations are obviously legal



Nothing is absolutely legal until it has been court tested, ESPECIALLY government rules and regulations. If anyone in CA has a lawyer friend, get them to do some research to see if the state rules have ever been tested against the ADA. If not, maybe someone can find some non-profit funding to take the issue to court. (Or fund it themselves if they're uber-rich.)

I had a diabetic scare a few weeks ago. A regular blood test showed a really nasty glucose level. Doc sent me for another fasting test, and it came back a-okay. Must have just been a wonky lab result. That said, the scare definitely gave me some sympathy for people who live with it. Don't let it (or the government's misconceptions about it) hold you back from what you want to do!


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## Mystrength (Oct 29, 2013)

*Law on Diabetes and Ambulance Drivers*

Hello All, 

I am a California-licensed attorney with extensive experience in law related to diabetes. 

First, since 2007, it is very possible to obtain an exemption from the federal Department of Transportation requirements prohibiting insulin use. The Diabetes Exemption program requires an endocrinologist report and ophthalmologist  report. You must be free from loss of consciousness events (low blood glucose), retinopathy, and neuropathy. The process can take up to six months. But you can definitely get your Commercial Driver's License for federal interstate commerce. 

California in 13 CCR 28.18 matches its requirements with the federal requirements, including the diabetes exemption.  It can get a little bit more tricky, though, and you may need to appeal an initial medical rejection. Research a good disability law attorney to help you through the appeal process, or call the American Diabetes Association Legal Helpline at 1-800-DIABETES.


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## Mystrength (Oct 29, 2013)

Good luck!


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## Christopher (Oct 29, 2013)

Goo said:


> The federal exemption doesn't work. I tried it and was denied (1) because i'm not yet 21 and (2) because it is for interstate vehicles only.
> 
> Research it a little bit more. It's not worth your time to try and get the fmcsa exemption. The only hope for type 1 diabetics is to move to a state that doesn't require a commercial driver's license to get an ADL (like Nevada).



No such thing as an "ADL" in North Carolina. Come out our way!

If you haven't noticed, CA has waaaaay too many providers and compensates thru ridiculous rules and regulations as an artificial means to shrink the candidate pool (not that it seems to be helping).

Go North or East for sane delivery of EMS.


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## CobraIV (Nov 10, 2013)

I work with a bad diabetic, I keep a snickers bar in my jump bag for him.


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