# EMS  as a stepping stone



## ThatPrivate (Feb 8, 2013)

I  don't know if there is a post like this already  but I  wanted to know  how many people use  EMS as a stepping stone (RN, PA,  firefighter, etc.). I  wanted to what are some other common ones?   Also,  for those of you who are using  EMS  as a stepping stone do you plan on confronting working in EMS ( post time or volunteer).  I'm an  EMT-basic and currently in paramedic school. I was thinking about becoming an athletic trainer  and possible volunteering as a  paramedic. It was just a thought. I  wanted to know how common this is within EMS.


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## JPINFV (Feb 8, 2013)

Shrug. I'm in medical school now and planning on working as a medical director when I get done. So... ummm... sure.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 8, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> Shrug. I'm in medical school now and planning on working as a medical director when I get done. So... ummm... sure.



Please come to riverside county!!! Haha


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## Wheel (Feb 8, 2013)

ThatPrivate said:


> I  don't know if there is a post like this already  but I  wanted to know  how many people use  EMS as a stepping stone (RN, PA,  firefighter, etc.). I  wanted to what are some other common ones?   Also,  for those of you who are using  EMS  as a stepping stone do you plan on confronting working in EMS ( post time or volunteer).  I'm an  EMT-basic and currently in paramedic school. I was thinking about becoming an athletic trainer  and possible volunteering as a  paramedic. It was just a thought. I  wanted to know how common this is within EMS.



It is all too common. EMS is largely a transient field. More motivated people often (not always) move away from ems for more money/advancement opportunity.


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## NYMedic828 (Feb 8, 2013)

EMS in most places of the US really offers no incentive for the ambitious to stick around.

Mind you there are great companies out there but they are massively outweighed by bad ones.


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## MidwestEMT (Feb 9, 2013)

Partially a stepping stone, but also part permanent for myself. Original plan back in high school was to be a paramedic. Didn't realize or know any of the politics or facts about it. Learned that there isn't as much opportunity for a paramedicine career outside of fire, so I started looking into that. EMS and fire now interest me equally. I work as a basic in private transport currently, and about 70% through the process for being a volunteer FF/EMT with a local dept. 

My ultimate goal is to work in a larger city career FD, get plenty of years in as a FF, and eventually end up 'settling down' riding full time medic with the same type of bigger city fire department.


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## Veneficus (Feb 9, 2013)

MidwestEMT said:


> My ultimate goal is to work in a larger city career FD, get plenty of years in as a FF, and eventually end up 'settling down' riding full time medic with the same type of bigger city fire department.



Just pointing out, you have that backwards. It is far more common to start out on a busy medic unit and then "slow-down" by getting transerred to an engine. 

To the OP: EMS is a transient field. When I got in it it was part of fire and I thought I would do them both forever.

Unfortunately, the politics are very disconcerting. Less so in larger departments, but smaller ones are just beehives.

Advancement (even in larger departments) is seniority based, so depending on what generation you get hired into you may only see a promotion once or twice or all the way to chief in a few years.

EMS is not a field for the ambitious, it sounds like you have a reasonable plan.


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## Wheel (Feb 9, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> Just pointing out, you have that backwards. It is far more common to start out on a busy medic unit and then "slow-down" by getting transerred to an engine.
> 
> To the OP: EMS is a transient field. When I got in it it was part of fire and I thought I would do them both forever.
> 
> ...



What if you are ambitious and love ems, theoretically? I mean someone has to teach, supervise, etc. I'd much rather it be someone with drive to see the profession better itself than someone who is satisfied with themselves and satisfied with the way things are now. Hopefully we can make some room for people who want to do that. I'm tossing the idea around myself.


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## NYMedic828 (Feb 9, 2013)

Wheel said:


> What if you are ambitious and love ems, theoretically? I mean someone has to teach, supervise, etc. I'd much rather it be someone with drive to see the profession better itself than someone who is satisfied with themselves and satisfied with the way things are now. Hopefully we can make some room for people who want to do that. I'm tossing the idea around myself.



The reality is that the only ones who can truly better the profession are the people at the top. If you want to make EMS better, go to med school.

Plenty of people enjoy EMS, especially on this forum be it as a career or "hobby." But realistically if you have the opportunity to work in a higher field of healthcare and do EMS on the side that is the way to go. Money doesn't buy happiness, but neither does being broke and working 3 jobs.



Veneficus said:


> Just pointing out, you have that backwards. It is far more common to start out on a busy medic unit and then "slow-down" by getting transerred to an engine.



+1 that is backwards.


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## Wheel (Feb 9, 2013)

NYMedic828 said:


> The reality is that the only ones who can truly better the profession are the people at the top. If you want to make EMS better, go to med school.
> 
> Plenty of people enjoy EMS, especially on this forum be it as a career or "hobby." But realistically if you have the opportunity to work in a higher field of healthcare and do EMS on the side that is the way to go. Money doesn't buy happiness, but neither does being broke and working 3 jobs.
> 
> ...



While physicians play a big role, we still have to push ourselves or else physicians won't take the time of day to stand up for us. Why would they, if we're ok with being minimally educated providers, trained (often in-house) by equally uneducated providers? That is unacceptable for every similar profession. As far as I know the vast majority of nursing and RT professors are at least degreed to the bachelor level, often much more. It's like the blind leading the blind, having a diploma paramedic teaching new medics about blood chemistry and how it relates to what we do every day.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Feb 9, 2013)

ThatPrivate said:


> I was thinking about becoming an athletic trainer  and possible volunteering as a  paramedic.



Really cool guys(Athletic Trainers) I use to work with one when I was a Roller Derby medic. Before we got him I felt really under qualified to help the girls unless they needed emergency care. Once we got an Athletic Trainer to partner me with it was great and I learned a lot from him. 

AT is a 6 year masters degree in most states I believe. Many sporting events require Paramedics and an Athletic training, so if you had both certs I could see that being a huge plus.

PS: Just be aware AT is still a very new allied health pseudo mid level provider. Even newer than EMS


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## Veneficus (Feb 9, 2013)

schulz said:


> PS: Just be aware AT is still a very new allied health pseudo mid level provider. Even newer than EMS



...and you may have to compete for really good jobs with a sports medicine subspecialized orthopod.


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## MidwestEMT (Feb 9, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> Just pointing out, you have that backwards. It is far more common to start out on a busy medic unit and then "slow-down" by getting transerred to an engine.



yes, sorry. That's what I was trying to say, I guess it was just too late for me. Busy medic unit, then slow down as a possible driver/engineer. But i'm only 18, so the options will more than likely change during my next 40-50 years.


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## patzyboi (Feb 9, 2013)

Someone explain these "politics" for a guy with no EMS work experience please


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## Wheel (Feb 9, 2013)

patzyboi said:


> Someone explain these "politics" for a guy with no EMS work experience please



In many agencies, promotions are based on seniority and how little you rock the boat, rather than drive, education, etc.


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## DrParasite (Feb 9, 2013)

I plan on being on an ambulance for as long as my body and mind can handle it.  

that being said, I have no desire to work full time in EMS anymore, and am in the process of transitioning to a non-EMS career.





Wheel said:


> In many agencies, promotions are based on seniority and how little you rock the boat, rather than drive, education, etc.


which is exactly why I have no desire to work in EMS or make this my career. seen this happen too many times.


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## sir.shocksalot (Feb 9, 2013)

Wheel said:


> In many agencies, promotions are based on seniority and how little you rock the boat, rather than drive, education, etc.


I second DrParasite. Every time I hear someone is awesome because of how long they have been doing this or because of where they work it makes me not want to stay in EMS a little bit more. The longer I stay in EMS and the more I learn about medicine the less I think this job has anything to do with medicine. There is little incentive to provide progressive care or further educate yourself other than for your own benefit, you won't get any more respect, money, or promotions from doing it.
Like DrParasite, I too am trying to break into another field full-time where there might be some opportunity for career growth. I like EMS and would like to stay in a part time of volunteer capacity, but I can't see a future in it. If I stay in EMS, 10 years from now I might be a supervisor or a flight medic, provided I don't get written up for what my partner writes in his PCR or for allowing a patient to walk 5 feet to the stretcher. I'm not a fan of spending 10 years to get seemingly no where.


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## Wheel (Feb 10, 2013)

sir.shocksalot said:


> I second DrParasite. Every time I hear someone is awesome because of how long they have been doing this or because of where they work it makes me not want to stay in EMS a little bit more. The longer I stay in EMS and the more I learn about medicine the less I think this job has anything to do with medicine. There is little incentive to provide progressive care or further educate yourself other than for your own benefit, you won't get any more respect, money, or promotions from doing it.
> Like DrParasite, I too am trying to break into another field full-time where there might be some opportunity for career growth. I like EMS and would like to stay in a part time of volunteer capacity, but I can't see a future in it. If I stay in EMS, 10 years from now I might be a supervisor or a flight medic, provided I don't get written up for what my partner writes in his PCR or for allowing a patient to walk 5 feet to the stretcher. I'm not a fan of spending 10 years to get seemingly no where.



I get this feeling too. I really would like to see ems grow, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it through all of the crap to get there.


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## ThatPrivate (Feb 10, 2013)

in my basic class of the 10 that passed  we had 1 person that wanted to become a nurse, 2  future PA  assistants , 1  doctor and one doing it for his fire department.  that leaves 5  people ( including me).  I've been going back and  forward  about  continuing my education and trying to break the stereotypes is EMS.  I've also considered PA  school ( on the army's dime)  it an associates degree in nursing.  athletic training has always been a  dream of mine however the field is so new that the pay and growth is similar to EMS.


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## Veneficus (Feb 10, 2013)

ThatPrivate said:


> in my basic class of the 10 that passed  we had 1 person that wanted to become a nurse, 2  future PA  assistants , 1  doctor and one doing it for his fire department.  that leaves 5  people ( including me).  I've been going back and  forward  about  continuing my education and trying to break the stereotypes is EMS.  I've also considered PA  school ( on the army's dime)  it an associates degree in nursing.  athletic training has always been a  dream of mine however the field is so new that the pay and growth is similar to EMS.



Have you considered an advanced degree in physical/occupational therapy with athletic training as a focus or side job of that?


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## ThatPrivate (Feb 10, 2013)

I have shadowed them and it really wasn't for me.  I'm alittle adrenaline  junkie. I love working closely with patients as well. That's  why I'm leaning towards nursing (critical care  or emergency room).


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## CAC758 (Mar 25, 2013)

ThatPrivate said:


> in my basic class of the 10 that passed  we had 1 person that wanted to become a nurse, 2  future PA  assistants , 1  doctor and one doing it for his fire department.  that leaves 5  people ( including me).  I've been going back and  forward  about  continuing my education and trying to break the stereotypes is EMS.  I've also considered PA  school ( on the army's dime)  it an associates degree in nursing.  athletic training has always been a  dream of mine however the field is so new that the pay and growth is similar to EMS.



I have a bachelors degree in Exercise and Wellness and am a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (NSCA) and athletic training is not very new. Getting picked up with a professional sports team is kinda hard unless you know someone, but may PT offices, schools, etc hire athletic trainers and you will make more than EMS. You will have long, random hours though! The only reason I didnt go towards athletic training is that you only work with the injured, Taping.. A lot of it, ice and stem.. over and over lol


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## 9D4 (Mar 25, 2013)

Didn't you make a thread about wanting to go tactical? JW what happened to that. 
I'm in the same position, though. I'm torn between wanting to go fire (who I vollie now and love it, but I've seen these politics firsthand now where someone completely inept is promoted) or wanting to go PA, like I used (where I shadowed and was immensely interested in becoming a surgical PA. Can't really afford the schooling for that, though, so IDK. Would like to be more in the area of definitive care, though, I believe, so. Not sure. Think I'm just going to give it a year or so and decide.


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## Akulahawk (Mar 26, 2013)

CAC758 said:


> I have a bachelors degree in Exercise and Wellness and am a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (NSCA) and athletic training is not very new. Getting picked up with a professional sports team is kinda hard unless you know someone, but may PT offices, schools, etc hire athletic trainers and you will make more than EMS. You will have long, random hours though! The only reason I didnt go towards athletic training is that you only work with the injured, Taping.. A lot of it, ice and stem.. over and over lol


Any good ATC should be able to get CSCS certified without too much trouble. You're right though, ATC isn't all that new. It's just that it's a very specialized field that few really understand what an ATC can do. I have a Bachelor's in Sports Medicine. I know what they can do. I'm also a Paramedic. Guess how often I had to "crack open the book" in P-school? I've also RARELY had to do the same in RN school. That's not to say that those schools sucked, rather it's a testament to the educational depth I'd gotten through the Sports Med program. 

As an Athletic Trainer and Paramedic, I'd _love_ the chance to legally combine both of those skill sets. Unfortunately, that doesn't normally happen. Otherwise, there'd be a ton of ATC/Paramedics working at the pro-team level that could handle nearly all the care needed from point of injury through arrival at the ED without handing off the player to someone less educated, or changing legal "hats."

About 40% of all ATC's work in High schools, supporting their athletics programs. That means that most of those ATC's pull double duty as a teacher and only get a stipend on top of their teacher's salary. In the clinical setting, the ATC often is only allowed to perform duties similar to a Physical Therapy Aide, even though their knowledge and skills are much closer to that of a Physical Therapist. It's not uncommon for an ATC to continue their education and get a Physical Therapy Masters and get licensed as a Physical Therapist. There's much more money in that, though the PT/ATC then spends most of their time in the clinic doing rehab than injury evaluation and prevention.

During my AT time, I spent a LOT of my time doing prevention and worked very closely with the team's Orthopod. It was really fun working with him, not to mention, educational. Do I know how to tape? Yes. It's a very small part of what I did.

As an EMT, I made more money than I would have as an Athletic Trainer in California, unless I was also a teacher or a Physical Therapist, or I managed to somehow get hired by a college/university/pro sports program.


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 26, 2013)

NYMedic828 said:


> The reality is that the only ones who can truly better the profession are the people at the top. *If you want to make EMS better, go to med school.*



That is like telling someone who wants to be an auto mechanic that they should earn a master's degree in mechanical engineering. 

It's not necessary to be an MD to positively influence EMS. 

It is probably easier to influence EMS as an educator or program administrator than as a physician.


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## AzValley (Mar 26, 2013)

Halothane said:


> That is like telling someone who wants to be an auto mechanic that they should earn a master's degree in mechanical engineering.
> 
> It's not necessary to be an MD to positively influence EMS.
> 
> It is probably easier to influence EMS as an educator or program administrator than as a physician.



That is a really good analogy!  Could not agree more.


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## 46Young (Mar 26, 2013)

Akulahawk said:


> Any good ATC should be able to get CSCS certified without too much trouble. You're right though, ATC isn't all that new. It's just that it's a very specialized field that few really understand what an ATC can do. I have a Bachelor's in Sports Medicine. I know what they can do. I'm also a Paramedic. Guess how often I had to "crack open the book" in P-school? I've also RARELY had to do the same in RN school. That's not to say that those schools sucked, rather it's a testament to the educational depth I'd gotten through the Sports Med program.
> 
> As an Athletic Trainer and Paramedic, I'd _love_ the chance to legally combine both of those skill sets. Unfortunately, that doesn't normally happen. Otherwise, there'd be a ton of ATC/Paramedics working at the pro-team level that could handle nearly all the care needed from point of injury through arrival at the ED without handing off the player to someone less educated, or changing legal "hats."
> 
> ...



There's work opportunities with the larger fire departments like mine that have their own Wel-Fit program. A Physical Therapist or CSCS could get hired into the program. Basically, our people design PT programs for people that fail our annual Work Performance Evaluation, train any member of service that requests it, perform the Functional Movement Screen for units rotating through, administer the CPAT, train prospects for the CPAT, train the recruits, and some other things I'm forgetting.


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## Akulahawk (Mar 27, 2013)

46Young said:


> There's work opportunities with the larger fire departments like mine that have their own Wel-Fit program. A Physical Therapist or CSCS could get hired into the program. Basically, our people design PT programs for people that fail our annual Work Performance Evaluation, train any member of service that requests it, perform the Functional Movement Screen for units rotating through, administer the CPAT, train prospects for the CPAT, train the recruits, and some other things I'm forgetting.


An ATC would be an excellent fit for those departments that have their own Well-Fit program. Unfortunately, there's a strong perception that all ATC's do is taping, bracing, giving RICE therapy and E-Stim.


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## mycrofft (Mar 27, 2013)

Akulahawk said:


> An ATC would be an excellent fit for those departments that have their own Well-Fit program. Unfortunately, there's a strong perception that all ATC's do is taping, bracing, giving RICE therapy and E-Stim.



With the job market, I'm surprised such positions are not the first to go.


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