# I plan on moving to Scottsdale, AZ want to know the best places 2 apply as an EMT-B



## blacksandxi (Apr 1, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

   i really need help. All ideas and suggestions are welcomed and greatly appreciated. i am Planning on moving to Scottsdale, Arizona from New york. i am in the process of making sure i have my national registration for my EMT-B.  I have worked in the NYC 911 system for four years, and want to continue working only in the 911 system, i do not want to do home discharges or inter-hospital transfers. i do not know anything about the EMS system in Scottsdale AZ so any info will help. Also please give me an idea of what i can expect to earn an hour, and what companies i should apply too, and stay away from. thank you for your time and comments in advance.


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## Iceman26 (Apr 8, 2012)

blacksandxi said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> i really need help. All ideas and suggestions are welcomed and greatly appreciated. i am Planning on moving to Scottsdale, Arizona from New york. i am in the process of making sure i have my national registration for my EMT-B.  I have worked in the NYC 911 system for four years, and want to continue working only in the 911 system, i do not want to do home discharges or inter-hospital transfers. i do not know anything about the EMS system in Scottsdale AZ so any info will help. Also please give me an idea of what i can expect to earn an hour, and what companies i should apply too, and stay away from. thank you for your time and comments in advance.



Aside from Phoenix Fire Department, all of the other cities contract their EMS/ambulances out. There used to be two companies; Southwest Ambulance and PMT. Southwest bought out PMT, though, so Southwest is about it as far as places to work. Being brand new to the company, despite experience, you're not likely to get an EMS spot right away. You're the low person on the totem pole and will be on a general transport rig until you're on a while and able to bid onto an EMS spot somewhere in the area. Generally, that's how it works, despite experience. Pay more or less sucks, like with basically any ambulance company. Brand new medics start out around $13 something an hour if I'm not mistaken, and you get a few bucks as a bonus for each call.


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## blacksandxi (Apr 9, 2012)

thank you very much Iceman, really do appreciate the info. not sure as to what i am going to do based on the info you haven given me. going to have to look at other job possibilities.


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## 46Young (Apr 9, 2012)

Where did you work in NY? I worked for NS-LIJ from 2003-2007.

You'll find that outside of NYC, EMS is quite a bit different. For one, many systems are 100% medic/EMT staffed on each bus. You won't be making your own decisions anymore, the medic does. Many systems combine interfacility with 911, like what Hudson Valley does. Many West Coast systems have FD ALS engines, and contract out txp with a private company. Back East, after you get south of NY/NJ, EMS is typically fire based for 911 EMS txp, with NC and SC having non fire based municipal EMS depending on where you are. Check out "Compton: First In," a documentary of the Compton FD that was running on BET a few years ago to see how career FD engine medics work with private ambulance crews.

EMT's are a dime a dozen outside of NYC. They're a dime a dozen in the city too, but city 911 experience and connections will give you hiring preference. Elsewhere, as an EMT-B, your NY experience won't count for much. There's simply too many new EMT-B's on the street. Outside of Ohio, California, and Florida, medics get hired much easier. As an EMT, expect $10/hr give or take no matter where you go, 911 or otherwise.

Work hours are different as well. You may have a 44, 48, or 56 hour/week schedule. The 24/48 is common. To use the medic salary mentioned above as an example, consider this:

$13/hr x 40 hours x 52 weeks = $27040. OT rate is $19.5/hr. $19.5 x 16 x 52 = $16224. So, if you work a 56 hour schedule, your yearly salary @ $13/hr would be $43264, or 60% greater than the 40 hour income. As an example, I used to work for Charleston County EMS. Their starting for medics was around $38k/yr. My hourly was just under $12/hr. Culture shock, for sure!


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## 46Young (Apr 9, 2012)

Forgot to mention, you'll find that the only reduction in cost of living is with housing. Services are as expensive or more expensive than in NY. Be prepared to have deductibles included with your medical insurance. I'm lucky in that we don't have those with our plan.

Also, do you have to leave for AZ right now, or can you stay for another year and do NY Methodist's Paramedic Program first (my alma mater)? They have evening classes as well as twice a week for longer hours. Just a thought. Otherwise, you're likely to be disappointed in your propects as an EMT-B.

Maybe get a CDL before you leave so that you have other employment options.


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## Iceman26 (Apr 9, 2012)

46Young said:


> Where did you work in NY? I worked for NS-LIJ from 2003-2007.
> 
> You'll find that outside of NYC, EMS is quite a bit different. For one, many systems are 100% medic/EMT staffed on each bus. You won't be making your own decisions anymore, the medic does. Many systems combine interfacility with 911, like what Hudson Valley does. Many West Coast systems have FD ALS engines, and contract out txp with a private company. Back East, after you get south of NY/NJ, EMS is typically fire based for 911 EMS txp, with NC and SC having non fire based municipal EMS depending on where you are. Check out "Compton: First In," a documentary of the Compton FD that was running on BET a few years ago to see how career FD engine medics work with private ambulance crews.
> 
> ...



All very good information.

And you are correct about the EMT-B/Paramedic tandem. About 99% of the time that is how it is in Arizona. There is one fire department that contracts with Southwest that has BLS rigs only for their EMS, no medics. So if you landed there at some point you'd have a little bit more decision making and such, but those spots are pretty highly coveted. 

With some experience your hourly pay rate may be a bit higher. I know brand new medics out of school make about $13 something, plus call bonus if you're on a GT/non-EMS ride. An experienced EMT would like get more than a brand new EMT out of school, but I'm not sure how much more.


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## terrible one (Apr 9, 2012)

FYI - 46Young,

Compton FD has their own RAs staffed with civilian paramedics. They are not private ambulance employees, they are employees of the city but not sworn in. Think slave labor, the civilian paramedics get paid between $9-11/hr, are only allowed to work X amount of hours, and have zero benefits.
All this on top of running the most calls all while being the FD towel boy. Not a position I'd recommend unless you enjoy the feeling of being on probation.


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## 46Young (Apr 10, 2012)

terrible one said:


> FYI - 46Young,
> 
> Compton FD has their own RAs staffed with civilian paramedics. They are not private ambulance employees, they are employees of the city but not sworn in. Think slave labor, the civilian paramedics get paid between $9-11/hr, are only allowed to work X amount of hours, and have zero benefits.
> All this on top of running the most calls all while being the FD towel boy. Not a position I'd recommend unless you enjoy the feeling of being on probation.



Wow, that's pretty lousy. Probably good as a resume builder, and better than working for private IFT if benefits aren't a concern, I suppose.


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## 46Young (Apr 10, 2012)

Iceman26 said:


> All very good information.
> 
> And you are correct about the EMT-B/Paramedic tandem. About 99% of the time that is how it is in Arizona. There is one fire department that contracts with Southwest that has BLS rigs only for their EMS, no medics. So if you landed there at some point you'd have a little bit more decision making and such, but those spots are pretty highly coveted.
> 
> With some experience your hourly pay rate may be a bit higher. I know brand new medics out of school make about $13 something, plus call bonus if you're on a GT/non-EMS ride. An experienced EMT would like get more than a brand new EMT out of school, but I'm not sure how much more.



If I'm not mistaken, Southwest has a pension, so it may not be a bad deal if you plan to work there for the long term, or at least long enough to get vested.

Maybe not. I just checked their site, and it looks like they were bought out by Rural Metro back in 2007, that only has a 401k. IIRC, back in 2006 I was beginning my search for places to work outside of NY, and the fact that they have (had) a pension put them in early consideration as a possible choice. If they're just a private without a Defined Benefit pension, I have no use for them as a full time employer. I could have sworn that they used to have a pension, unless my mind is playing tricks on me. I wouldn't consider working EMS as a long term career anywhere without a pension. The pay is usually too low to allow for significant contributions to a Defined Contribution (401k, 403b) plan.


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## Iceman26 (Apr 10, 2012)

They did have a pension at one time. I know that for sure.


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## blacksandxi (Apr 12, 2012)

Thank you Iceman26, 46young, terrible one, for all of your info. based on the info you have given me i have decided that Arizona isn't the best job move i can do. 46young i unfortunately work for NSLIJ as well. things at NSLIJ all ways change but always for the better of the company and never and i do mean never for the employee. one sided street is an understatement. i will definitely look into the NY Methodist's Paramedic Program, because enrolling in a medic program was going to be part of my plan whether i stayed or moved.


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## 46Young (Apr 12, 2012)

blacksandxi said:


> Thank you Iceman26, 46young, terrible one, for all of your info. based on the info you have given me i have decided that Arizona isn't the best job move i can do. 46young i unfortunately work for NSLIJ as well. things at NSLIJ all ways change but always for the better of the company and never and i do mean never for the employee. one sided street is an understatement. i will definitely look into the NY Methodist's Paramedic Program, because enrolling in a medic program was going to be part of my plan whether i stayed or moved.



Bruce S. Kerri B. myself, and Sergey F. all left for Fairfax County as firemedics. Sergey just graduated from the 131st. last year. I left N.S. in Oct. 2007, just before things began to become untenable from what people tell me. Maybe consider coming to the fire side after you get your NREMT-P. We work ten days a month, start at around 71k/yr after being released from the fire academy and ALS internship, where you're getting 50k. 25 and out @ 2.8% and a three year DROP. 

I liked Methodist's program. I rode 48W a lot, as well as Jamaica's 51V and 51W, since they were real close to home. Tony Thomas was my I/C. He was excellent, and used to buy me coffee if I would make the trip to D.D. for him. Sergey F. went there as well, and also recommends Tony if you can get him. N.S. worked with me. I had 46 Eddie for the Tues 1 and Fri 1, and an IFT 16 on Sat to complete the 40 hrs. They should adjust your schedule for school if you're not a problem child.

The program was 13 months when I did it. You'll have to get your NR-P somewhere else, unless they're including it now. They're also an accredited institution. What's more, the P card will get you comped for roughly 35-40 college credits if you want to go back for an EMS AAS, a two year degree. You'll need a four year healthcare degree to apply for the better EMS supervisor jobs across the country. Emergency Management will open many more doors for you, though.

I recommend just sucking it up and trying not to make waves with NS while you bang out the medic cert. Once you get your NR-P, you can work almost anywhere you want, excluding FL, OH, and CA. Those are tougher nuts to crack. If you're going career, I highly recommend fire based. You're taken care of much better than in other systems. If you're going to do that, I'd look into Northern Virginia and the more affluent counties in MD near D.C. If you don't like fire, I'd go to Texas for single role work. There are a few on these forums from there. They pay well for single role. North Carolina has good systems, but they only start at around $30-$35k/yr. Not for me. Charleston County EMS pays well, but I didn't care for the system. They may have changed, as I haven't worked there in four years. Most everywhere you go the pay is crappy, compared to our standards. Remeber, you may think $30-$35k is okay if your in the South or somewhere with a lower cost of living, but realize that the only thing that's cheaper compared to NY is the housing. Everything else is similar. So, A $13/hr 56 hour job isn't going to allow you to afford a house, nice car, vacatios, etc. A fire job paying you $71k after being there eight months certainly will. Trust me. I'm a four year guy making in the low $80's paying under $1800/month for a mortgage/taxes/insurance on a 5B 2 1/2 Bath 3200 SF home with a 1700 SF basement, 45 mins from work where I make only ten trips a month. 24 hours of OT gets me more than $600 after taxes.

Realize one more thing regarding cost of living, if you have the choice of a job in an area with a lower cost of living, and a better paying job in an area with a higher cost of living, go with the more expensive area. Here's why:

It's all about the best retirement. What's more, 75% of $50k, or 75% of $100k? Even if you're talking about a 401k, what's more, saving 10% of $50k, or saving 10% of $100k? Get the better retirement, then move somewhere cheap. It's a NY tradition.


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## 46Young (Apr 12, 2012)

One more reason to do the medic program in NY:

Most anywhere you go outside of NY, the call volume is lower, and you run many BLS call types. With a  medic school in the NYC 911 system you're running the inbleed, arrest, diff breather, cardiac condition, the unconscious. Elsewhere, 80-90% of your call volume is MVA w/ injury, injury minor, sick jobs, a ton of V.O.M.I.T. (vitals, O2, monitor, IV, txp), headaches, toe pain, etc. You never get to use your protocols! You don't learn anything by running a bunch of monitor/IV/O2 jobs and other mundane calls. Do your medic in NY, get the upgrade to medic, and gain NYC experience while you get your NR-P and start applying to other states as a medic. You really can't replace the NYC experience in all but maybe two or three other places such as King County and Boston for example.

I have a disdain for all non tiered EMS systems. The BLS don't learn any critical decision making, and the medics don't learn much by running a bunch of MVA's and IV/monitor jobs. Use NYC for the experience, then go work somewhere else where you'll be taken care of. NY's a great place to be from, but not to spend your whole life.


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## 46Young (Apr 12, 2012)

Here's Charleston County's employment page:

https://jobsweb.charlestoncounty.org/hronline/public/vacancylisting.aspx

Check out the Paramedic hiring salary, $39,484. That's a $12/hr job if you do the 24/48. It's less than $15/hr if you're working their 48 hour schedule, which is 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, three off. And this is probably the best paying single role 911 EMS department in the Southeast excluding Florida.

Remember this well. The yearly salary may be halfway decent, but the lower hourly salary due to the workweek being greater than 40 hours results in a lower overtime rate. Using the above example, if that yearly salary was applicable to a 40 hour workweek (I know NS-LIJ does 37.5, but bear with me), your hourly would be $18.98. As such, your OT rate would be $28.47. If you're a 56 hour employee, your base is $12/hr, and your OT is only $18/hr! This is where you get screwed. You're getting ripped off for $9.50/hr for every hour you work OT. It really adds up.

Now, if you're fire based, FLSA applies. This is how it works:

A four week FLSA cycle is 212 hours. This averages to a 53 hour workweek. The first 212 hours of the cycle are all straight time. A 24/48 or any variation thereof is a 56 hour week. This means that three hours every week, on the average, are time and a half rather than straight time. It may seem like a ripoff that almost all your hours are straight time, but the hourly should be higher, since employees won't work for peanuts. The yearly salary should be decent if it's a decent sized municipal department near a population center with a decent tax base. If your hourly is higher, so is your OT. This is how I consistently earn well over $100k/yr without killing myself. Here's an added benefit - if I do OT early in the 28 day 212 hour cycle, the those hours are automatically time and a half, and also count towards that 212. This means that I'm into time and a half that many hours sooner. So, if I do 24 hours of OT early in the cycle, that's an extra 1/2 time x 24 hours, or 12 hours of extra straight time pay. It's double dipping, and it's crazy! Some checks, I see six, seven, eight hundred dollars extra, and I can't figure out exactly where it's coming from. 

Just some extra considerations when you're exploring different salaries, schedules, and systems. 

Oh, don't do hybrid Defined Contribution (401k/457 w/ match) with a reduced Defined Benefits rate (pension). You want pension only with a 457 without employer match.


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## blacksandxi (Apr 14, 2012)

Thank you so much for all of your advice 46Y. I actually started looking for apartments in NYC yesterday. i live with my parents and have to get going for my own sake.


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## Kale (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm currently a Southwest employee and yes, SW does still have a pension.

I agree it's a bum deal, OP, if you're a seasoned 911 provider to conceivably come to a new company and be forced into interfacility due to a lack of company seniority, however if you're a medic you will have more options and flexibility when it comes to where you work. You can bid on to a rover shift from the get go and work mainly and once you hit 6 months you can bid into Pinal county (which is the county south of Maricopa) and do some real EMS cowboy stuff (there are places in Pinal where fire doesn't even exist) or suffer through a full year and then bid on to an Maricopa EMS day car or station opening. Don't get me wrong, interfacility can seriously suck, but the culture here isn't as bad as some places I've seen (not to mention SW isn't a front for what amounts to little more than organized Medicare fraud). Also, your opportunities for EMS OT are pretty much limitless, though you'd still have to work your regular shift.

Alternatively, if you're willing to venture out you might try applying to Gila River EMS. It's reservation based which may be a far cry from what you're used to (not sure where in NY you're from), but I personally enjoy working rural EMS and I know for a fact that Gila River is pretty much a dream company to work for. 

Hope some of that is useful or interesting. Good luck.


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## Kale (Apr 17, 2012)

P.S. - PMT was acquired by Rural/Metro in Jan of this year, but for the foreseeable future will continue to essentially operate as a totally separate company. The only thing that is currently shared between SW and PMT are the warehouses and SOON the payroll (PMT will be getting a pay bump to match our wages). You can still apply to PMT as if it were a totally different company, they currently have the Scottsdale 911 contract and they do tend to get people in to EMS more quickly.

Again, AZ still may not be the best choice, but there is still more than an option.


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