# Bystander Complaints



## sirengirl

So, just ran a call for a fall at the local flea market. Get there and the flaggers direct us to our patient, who seems to have fallen just outside on the wheelchair ramp. Park the truck, get out, do our thing, end up getting a refusal.

Here's where it gets fun.

I am putting equipment back in via the side door and the car to the immediate side of the wheelchair ramp starts to back up towards me, rolling quickly until slamming on the brakes about a foot from me. I give the driver a cocked eyebrow- how can one possibly miss a 12' tall ambulance parked behind their back bumper, with a uniformed medic directly in your rear view?- but nonetheless I say nothing.

The driver, however, proceeds to get out and start screaming at my partner and I about how rude we are, how inconsiderate, how we should have parked _over THERE_ (where it is impossible to access the ramp upon which the patient lay without walking around 4 cars and a curb), etcetc. I left my partner to deal with it, as no response I had would be HR appropriate, and he explained that we were, in fact, called there for a traumatic injury and were working an _emergency_. She said, "I understand that but you are RUDE and should have parked SOMEWHERE ELSE!!" 

He continues to try to placate her before she storms back into her car and watches us expectantly. We finish packing up and I ask if he wants to sit there and complete his entire report before we go.

In any case, this woman was literally complaining about where an emergency vehicle, on an emergency call, was parked. I had to wonder if she would have been yelling at the crew had we been Fire or Law... What other ridiculous bystander complaints and situations have you all experienced? I'm sure there's loads of good ones out there...


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## STXmedic

This happened to one of my buddies at my PT gig a while back. I got a pretty good kick out of it.

We get complaints like that from time to time. From blocking people in at a parking lot, to "don't park in front of my house!" when the 911 call is next door. Hmm... I've gotten accosted for taking the elevator and making someone wait. 

I'll be nice until they start being unreasonable, and then they get a piece of my mind. They usually walk away after that. If they want to make an issue out of it, I will gladly get pd to respond so they can voice their complaint to them.


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## DesertMedic66

I've had this happen before (us and the fire department closed down the freeway for a car accident). We politely informed the driver that we were there for a car accident and had to close down the freeway for a short period of time. The driver continued to complain. We gave the driver our supervisors number and informed them that calling our supervisor isn't going to do anything. 

Driver did call the supervisor. The supervisor politely talked to the driver for 5-10 minutes then changed his tone to more of a this is what we had to do so we did it. If you have a problem with it too bad. Another 5-10 minutes went by and the supervisor ended up hanging up to go on a call.


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## medicdan

sirengirl said:


> So, just ran a call for a fall at the local flea market. Get there and the flaggers direct us to our patient, who seems to have fallen just outside on the wheelchair ramp. Park the truck, get out, do our thing, end up getting a refusal.
> 
> Here's where it gets fun.
> 
> I am putting equipment back in via the side door and the car to the immediate side of the wheelchair ramp starts to back up towards me, rolling quickly until slamming on the brakes about a foot from me. I give the driver a cocked eyebrow- how can one possibly miss a 12' tall ambulance parked behind their back bumper, with a uniformed medic directly in your rear view?- but nonetheless I say nothing.
> 
> The driver, however, proceeds to get out and start screaming at my partner and I about how rude we are, how inconsiderate, how we should have parked _over THERE_ (where it is impossible to access the ramp upon which the patient lay without walking around 4 cars and a curb), etcetc. I left my partner to deal with it, as no response I had would be HR appropriate, and he explained that we were, in fact, called there for a traumatic injury and were working an _emergency_. She said, "I understand that but you are RUDE and should have parked SOMEWHERE ELSE!!"
> 
> He continues to try to placate her before she storms back into her car and watches us expectantly. We finish packing up and I ask if he wants to sit there and complete his entire report before we go.
> 
> In any case, this woman was literally complaining about where an emergency vehicle, on an emergency call, was parked. I had to wonder if she would have been yelling at the crew had we been Fire or Law... What other ridiculous bystander complaints and situations have you all experienced? I'm sure there's loads of good ones out there...



I've certainly had this happen before... many times in many ways, and found the best thing to do (as others have mentioned), is to give the community member a place to vent/complain. They want to feel like they have a place to go, someone to listen, like they've "moved it up the food chain." I generally don't say "you can call, but they won't do anything", because I know that just having the opportunity to gripe is often therapeutic. I've been in the supervisor role where we needed to maintain customer service standards, and found it's valuable to let the caller vent, say I will investigate, and follow up in a week or so...


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## Handsome Robb

PoeticInjustice said:


> I'll be nice until they start being unreasonable, and then they get a piece of my mind. They usually walk away after that. If they want to make an issue out of it, I will gladly get pd to respond so they can voice their complaint to them.



This is why you and I on an ambulance together would be epic. 

Lady I ain't got time for that! Take your whining elsewhere.


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## Aidey

We often get people who walk up to the ambulance while posted in various parking lots who berate us for wasting their "tax dollars" by idling the engine. It seems especially common when it is below freezing or above 80. Usually they stop when they are told we are a private company, but not always.


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## STXmedic

Aidey said:


> We often get people who walk up to the ambulance while posted in various parking lots who berate us for wasting their "tax dollars" by idling the engine. It seems especially common when it is below freezing or above 80. Usually they stop when they are told we are a private company, but not always.



They usually stop when I remind them I pay their insurance :lol:


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## Epi-do

Had a lady open up the back doors and demand we move the truck so she could get out of her parking space.  Her car was running, she was almost out of gas, and didn't want to run out of gas.  (i can't even remember what was wrong with the patient, but we were both busy doing whatever needed to be done so we could head to the ED with a very sick patient.). We told her we were a bit busy at the moment, then shut & locked the doors.  She then proceeded to stand at the back of the truck and knock on the windows until we covered them so she couldn't see inside.


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## Handsome Robb

Epi-do said:


> Had a lady open up the back doors and demand we move the truck so she could get out of her parking space.  Her car was running, she was almost out of gas, and didn't want to run out of gas.  (i can't even remember what was wrong with the patient, but we were both busy doing whatever needed to be done so we could head to the ED with a very sick patient.). We told her we were a bit busy at the moment, then shut & locked the doors.  She then proceeded to stand at the back of the truck and knock on the windows until we covered them so she couldn't see inside.



I woulda called pd. That's B&E  and potentially interfering with emergency services...especially if the patient has a negative outcome because we had to take our attention from them to deal with the general public. Don't mess with patient care and I won't sick the LEOs on you. Cops here don't take kindly to people, whether it be a patient or the general public messing with us after a few events over the last couple of years.

If I can I'll move no questions asked and apologize for the inconvenience. If I'm working...not a chance. 

"Ma'am...do I come barging into your office at work? Oh I don't? Then don't do it to me!"


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## the_negro_puppy

Outrageous.

Where possible and circumstances permitting I try to position the Ambulance out of the way, but obviously pt care comes first.

I cannot believe people can be so selfish. Listening to the audio other woman was concerned because she might be late to her child's birthday party?

What a joke.

I've personally never had a run in with bystanders here.


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## Epi-do

Robb said:


> I woulda called pd. That's B&E  and potentially interfering with emergency services...especially if the patient has a negative outcome because we had to take our attention from them to deal with the general public.



Honestly, if we had been thinking about it, we would have.  However, we were so utterly shocked about the entire situation that we didn't even think about it.  I have no idea if she ran out of gas or not, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I really hoped she did.


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## phideux

Aidey said:


> We often get people who walk up to the ambulance while posted in various parking lots who berate us for wasting their "tax dollars" by idling the engine. It seems especially common when it is below freezing or above 80. Usually they stop when they are told we are a private company, but not always.



It's been my experience that these folks who tell us that they pay our salaries and we work for them, actually don't pay taxes. They are usually the ones that we are paying for with welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing, etc.


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## johnrsemt

I was on a run at a restaurant for a choking person:  as we parked in front of doors, a person yelled that we were blocking the parking spaces. 
  We went in (with engine crew, who was parked in front of us)  after we made sure the patient was ok (wasn't choking upon our arrival)
    LEO walked in and asked if any of us had given a civilian permission to move our rigs  (LEO already had him cuffed)   He had already moved the ambulance and was climbing in the engine cab.   he told the LEO that we told him he could.     He couldn't PARK ,  not leave.

   He went to jail and as we were leaving the wife was screaming at us about it


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## CFal

Last year I read in an op-ed in a local paper somebody wrote it about how iddling was bad and ya da yada and how they would open people cars off that they left running and turn them off, and then they mentioned shutting off an ambulance that was idling.  I would have gotten them arrested if I caught them if I was there.


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## feldy

A) Lock your trucks...even when you idle. B) i frequently get yelled at or get bad looks when i block the street when on a call. If there is definitely no room to pass, i block for safety so no one will either hit me or my truck. 

Just let them know you will be a while and if you are leaving soon then they wont be as upset as if they had to wait an hour or when able to do so, move the truck once the pt is in the back...

or of they complain a lot and are sitting behind you...walk REALLY slowly to the truck, get in, then get out check the doors (or something)...then get back in slowly.


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## Clipper1

feldy said:


> A) or of they complain a lot and are sitting behind you...walk REALLY slowly to the truck, get in, then get out check the doors (or something)...then get back in slowly.



It seems you are inviting bad PR and violence against EMS. It might not be against you but some other EMT who is trying to be a professional will probably be scrutinized harshly, screamed at, hit or shot because of your actions.

Part of being a professional is acting professionally regardless of how stupid others act and that also includes members of your own profession.  When you acknowledge others behaving badly by behaving just as bad, you have succeeded in lowering yourself to their level. This is a win for the other side or who ever might be recording your behavior and giving a one sided view of the situation.


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## feldy

i would never actually do this...more of a humorous thought. We try alert PD when we know traffic will back up behind us if we are on a one way street that way they can divert traffic as needed...especially for prolonged scene times or if we have to drive opposed traffic to access a call.


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## RedheadErin

"Ma'am, when the ambulance comes for YOU we can park it over there------->" <_<


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## Fire51

It's just classic examples of people not understanding or for some not caring about what we do!


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## TheLocalMedic

Had a guy come up to the ambulance the other day while we were posting.  He claimed he was an air quality inspector and that we weren't allowed to park and keep our engine running (mind you it's 90+ degrees out and not a lick of shade around).  Guy's wearing civilian clothes and driving a Prius, so I wasn't really impressed.  

When he wouldn't go away I told my partner to put the parking break on to make the ambulance go into a high idle (really more of a roaring idle).  This pissed the guy off even more, and he started strutting around saying how he was going to "call someone who will come and write you a ticket".  

At this point I had made up my mind that we just had to screw with him even more.  I had my partner just keep on pressing the gas a little bit further to really get the engine screaming.  This guy kept yelling louder and louder to be heard over the engine, and we just kept yelling back "What?  What?"  

He went away eventually, but not until he was red in the face and we were laughing like loons..


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## Kevinf

I had a person come into a facility to yell at the staff that our rig was blocking her from parking... she absolutely had to park in the first handicap space and not the other six that were available and unblocked.

So to summarize: She parked her car and blocked the entire driveway (we parked where we did in order not to do that), comes into the facility and hunts down a staff member, has them come tell us we are blocking her, goes back out to her car and waits for us to move. After we move she pulls into the very first handicap space instead of the one directly adjacent to it she could have used, and then walks back into the facility. The facility staff apologized on her behalf but didn't want to upset her by telling her to wait or park in the next spot.

All this theoretically so she doesn't have to do as much walking... :wacko:

Another one... we transport patients to a medical science building attached to a hospital. They have volunteers staff a table there. The volunteers call and complain to our management when we park for a few minutes to unload a patient under the overhang instead of out in the open in the parking spaces and then having to cross a street, yet they have no problem allowing construction vehicles and delivery vehicles to park there. In short, delivering packages ok. Delivering patients, go away.


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## Ace 227

Working in a city, its common for us to double park on the street during emergencies. We've gotten a few complaints here or there from that, lol.


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## sirengirl

Not necessarily a complaint per say but related. Was running P1 into the hospital with a STEMI alert a few days ago down one of the most notoriously busy roads in my county. Was hitting about 60 or so and traffic was doing as they should and moving to my right so I could pass by.

Aaaaand then I come up on a older model lifted truck hauling a boat. 

Refuses to get out of my way. I go to swerve and pass on the right but the car in that lane is slowing down ahead so I can't make it. Swerve back and am hitting my brakes (cue smell of burning rubber) and the driver of the truck is also slowing down but making no attempt to get over into now clear right lane. I have every siren, light, and airhorn going for a good quarter mile before I reach a stretch of road long enough to make a complete pass on the right. Pull around the truck/boat, airhorn still blaring, and come up to see-

Two snot nosed teenage boys who have the audacity to be giving ME dirty looks through their open windows. Dear god if only I had a ram bar on the front of my rig, those brats wouldn't have had a boat, or a rear end on their truck anymore...


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## STXmedic

Honestly, I'd have given you a pretty dirty look myself... The picture you paint is pretty aggressive, unnecessary, and unsafe. :unsure:


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## DesertMedic66

Feel sorry for the medic/EMT in the back with you swerving back and forth and slamming on your brakes.


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## STXmedic

DesertEMT66 said:


> Feel sorry for the medic/EMT in the back with you swerving back and forth and slamming on your brakes.



Don't forget the STEMI patient who could probably do without the added stress and anxiety...


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## Mariemt

I can't say I have ever had anyone get upset with us for where we park, only that we won't tell them what is going on. They want to know who is hurt or sick. When we say that it is a hipaa violation to give out details it can irritate them but oh well.


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## sirengirl

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post: brakes hard due to them braking in front of me. Swerved to try to get around them and could not due to there not being enough room in the right lane to get all the way in front of them to pass. They, however, had plenty of room to merge and slow down in that lane, yanno, not in front of me.


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## EMDispatch

Probably about once a month I'll take a 911 call from a bystander that's complaining about a street being blocked, or demanding to know what is going on. if it's a parking complaint, I'll provide them a few seconds to vent, ask them if it's an emergency, and tell them to hang up.  When they're being nosy I just say it's an ongoing incident and hangup.

On the 911 lines we constantly get berated, I can't go a half hour without being cursed out. We just have to let it roll off though, people are upset about the situation, and have no concept of time, and generally view us as a barrier not a gateway. What's really kind of sad, are the ones that believe we are the responding unit, and that by staying on the line we are delaying response. A lot of our complaints are the result of poor public education.


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## ZombieEMT

I personally try to avoid these situations by preventing them from happening. If not blocking anybody in, is possible, then I do it. I will obviously not jeopardize my safety or patient care but I do try to be considerate of others. If I pull into a parking lot, and can park my truck, and pull a stretcher within reasonable distance, I do. The other thing that I take into consideration is the seriousness of the call. Just because a patient dial 911 does not make it an "emergency." If you get a report of minor injury/lift assist or something like toothache, soar throat, abdominal pain, etc and other BLS calls, then why not take a few extra steps to make everyone happy...

Yes people do get angry when blocked in and there is plenty of room to park the ambulance, myself included. If I am on my way to work and get blocked in by an ambulance for 20 minutes when they could have just parked 10ft further, I would get frustrated too.


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## AlphaOmega

The best response, in a case like this, is no response. Load up your gear and move on. (Easy to say I know)


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## CodeBru1984

Aidey said:


> We often get people who walk up to the ambulance while posted in various parking lots who berate us for wasting their "tax dollars" by idling the engine. It seems especially common when it is below freezing or above 80. Usually they stop when they are told we are a private company, but not always.



Got told by an older private security guard that my partner and I weren't allowed to park and idle in an empty shopping center parking lot around 0130 one night. He then proceeded to say that the only people who were allowed to park and idle in said empty shopping center parking lot were emergency responders, on duty and in their respective apparatus. He failed to notice the word AMBULANCE on the side of our rig, and despite us informing him that we are emergency responders, he wouldn't hear it and told us to move or he would be notifying the police department so a citation could be issued.


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## chaz90

CodeBru1984 said:


> Got told by an older private security guard that my partner and I weren't allowed to park and idle in an empty shopping center parking lot around 0130 one night. He then proceeded to say that the only people who were allowed to park and idle in said empty shopping center parking lot were emergency responders, on duty and in their respective apparatus. He failed to notice the word AMBULANCE on the side of our rig, and despite us informing him that we are emergency responders, he wouldn't hear it and told us to move or he would be notifying the police department so a citation could be issued.



That would make me more than grumpy.


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## DesertMedic66

CodeBru1984 said:


> Got told by an older private security guard that my partner and I weren't allowed to park and idle in an empty shopping center parking lot around 0130 one night. He then proceeded to say that the only people who were allowed to park and idle in said empty shopping center parking lot were emergency responders, on duty and in their respective apparatus. He failed to notice the word AMBULANCE on the side of our rig, and despite us informing him that we are emergency responders, he wouldn't hear it and told us to move or he would be notifying the police department so a citation could be issued.



I really hope you guys didn't move. 

I would have stayed there, waited for PD to arrive, and then laugh with PD.


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## chaz90

DesertEMT66 said:


> I really hope you guys didn't move.
> 
> I would have stayed there, waited for PD to arrive, and then laugh with PD.



That was my first thought, but it is private property, and their rep was telling them to move. Ridiculous, but even PD would probably be forced to write a trespassing ticket if it came down to it.


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## CALEMT

CodeBru1984 said:


> Got told by an older private security guard that my partner and I weren't allowed to park and idle in an empty shopping center parking lot around 0130 one night. He then proceeded to say that the only people who were allowed to park and idle in said empty shopping center parking lot were emergency responders, on duty and in their respective apparatus. He failed to notice the word AMBULANCE on the side of our rig, and despite us informing him that we are emergency responders, he wouldn't hear it and told us to move or he would be notifying the police department so a citation could be issued.



Same thing happened to a crew that works at my company... they just staid in the parking lot and nothing happened haha


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## CodeBru1984

DesertEMT66 said:


> I really hope you guys didn't move.
> 
> I would have stayed there, waited for PD to arrive, and then laugh with PD.



Sadly we moved. I wasn't working with my usual partner that night or else we would have stayed put.


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## mycrofft

OP, just mount up and go away. I hated bystanders of all sorts.


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## DesertMedic66

chaz90 said:


> That was my first thought, but it is private property, and their rep was telling them to move. Ridiculous, but even PD would probably be forced to write a trespassing ticket if it came down to it.



But the security rep said that emergency responders can park there. I really hope that an ambulance qualifies as an emergency response vehicle.


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## CodeBru1984

DesertEMT66 said:


> But the security rep said that emergency responders can park there. I really hope that an ambulance qualifies as an emergency response vehicle.



Apparently not according to the security rep. I used to work security and never once did I tell an emergency vehicle that they couldn't park somewhere.


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## exodus

We got told to move 20ft forward off the gravel into the paved parking lot. So much for parking out of the way for people while posting.


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## ZombieEMT

Slightly off the original topic, I had a driver in the left lane refuse to yield to our ambulance the other day because he was attempting to make the left turn, and did not want to move right. He continued to wave me around to his right side, even though the three lanes to the right were filled with several vehicles that were abiding by state law by moving to the right and yielding to an emergency vehicle. When I was finally able to pass him he have me the huh hands.


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## TransportJockey

HaleEMT said:


> Slightly off the original topic, I had a driver in the left lane refuse to yield to our ambulance the other day because he was attempting to make the left turn, and did not want to move right. He continued to wave me around to his right side, even though the three lanes to the right were filled with several vehicles that were abiding by state law by moving to the right and yielding to an emergency vehicle. When I was finally able to pass him he have me the huh hands.



Had that happen and I just sit behind him blaring horn and sirens. He flipped me off and screamed at me as I drove past and then he looked really unhappy when SO pulled him over right afterwards 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## Highlander

It's funny due to the fact, if they was in the back of our ambulance with a Life threading condition...I'm sure they would want to have people yield so we can get them to the hospital in time.


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## Handsome Robb

TransportJockey said:


> Had that happen and I just sit behind him blaring horn and sirens. He flipped me off and screamed at me as I drove past and then he looked really unhappy when SO pulled him over right afterwards
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2



I love it when that happens. I'll usually pop the DriveCam or iDrive for them too. Always drives the point home when they try to fight it and then they show the video...


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## Aero

I had similar happen just yesterday actually (referring to OP) except it was pre-scene...

We were posted outside of a Home Depot and someone with a trailer parks infront and kind of to the left of us without straightening their trailer (effectively blocking us from being able to move forward) and we get a 9-1-1 call. Due to the horrible turning radius on our ambulances it would have taken on us ridiculous amount of points turn just to turn around so I got out and asked the gentleman "Hey, we just got a call would you mind straightening your trailer for us so we can get out?" and he gave me quite an offended look...

he then proceeded to explain to me that I could "f*ing" turn around and use the other exit, which would mean going around the entire building which at this point of the day had a considerable amount of traffic both vehicular and pedestrian... rather than let him finish his rant I just hopped in the truck and had my partner turn the wig wags and woo woos on until he moved...

(call came in as male with unknown injuries walking down the road, half an hour away from us... when we got there, no patient found. i wonder why...)


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## CPRinProgress

I went on an MVA with entrapment that was fully engulfed.  We had fire ems and PD from two towns squeezed on a two lane rd. After the call I talked to one of the dispatchers and he told me he got multiple calls from people asking if the police would open the road for them to get through.  He told them he'd get right on it and hung up.


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## TheLocalMedic

A couple years ago we had some tweaker start screaming that we were kidnapping his neighbor as we were trying to load up a patient.  He kept running around the ambulance, flapping his arms and asking why nobody was doing anything to save his neighbor from us.  It was all pretty funny until he punched a firefighter who was trying to calm him down, then it got hilarious...


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## grub

*Woops*

I told a guy to get in his car and leave the scene while he's a free man after getting read the riot act from him and his wife over a blocked lane that he had to wait for 20 minutes because of fire hose and safety. He was a police Capt. from another town and called my Supervisor and LIED to him! Told him that I was threatning him and calling him names:angry:  I didn't do that until he left the scene


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## EMDispatch

CPRinProgress said:


> I went on an MVA with entrapment that was fully engulfed.  We had fire ems and PD from two towns squeezed on a two lane rd. After the call I talked to one of the dispatchers and he told me he got multiple calls from people asking if the police would open the road for them to get through.  He told them he'd get right on it and hung up.



Pretty standard deal around here in the summer. With only one major highway, and beach traffic, you're guaranteed a back up of at least 5 mile with any incident. I normally get about 3-10 calls on the accident and another 20 complaining about the back up. It gets even worse when the backup goes for multiple counties...


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## IndyEMT

the other day my partner and I were at lunch at In-n-out and there was a wreck on the street right in front. since our company doesn't run 911 in the area we called 911 to get fire on scene and then proceeded to inform dispatch of the accident and that we were going to cancel lunch to assist until fire showed up. as we're on the radio with dispatch a guy runs over to us and starts yelling at us to "DO YER JERB!!!!" while pointing to the accident scene. I almost died laughing at the way he said it but kept my cool until fire showed up and took over :rofl:


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## sirengirl

Highlander said:


> It's funny due to the fact, if they was in the back of our ambulance with a Life threading condition...I'm sure they would want to have people yield so we can get them to the hospital in time.



Not a "bystander complaint" but related to this- had to restrain myself with every fiber of my being a few shifts ago not to march out into the waiting room and read the family the riot act. Transported a 70ish lung CA patient with acute SOB which by the time we got her in the truck went from sitting up, tripoding and 2-3 word sentences, to agonal with rales and flash PE. Partner took the call and I took us in P1 to the nearest ER, about 2-4 miles, and happen to notice in my rear view that the family had turned the flashers on their Rav 4 on and are speeding down residential roads super close behind me, blowing stop signs, and running red lights- right by a cop, too, who did nothing (law enforcement in my area is, sadly, notoriously useless for helping us and in fact creates more work for EMS by shoving people off on us that they don't want to deal with). While it was an oversight of me not to run back into the house and tell them not to follow me, I feel like it's fairly common knowledge that you are NOT ALLOWED to follow an ambulance. I don't care who I've got in the truck, you just DON'T follow my ambulance as if putting on your 4-ways is going to transform your mid-size SUV into an emergency response vehicle and give you the right to break traffic laws. 

Not only that, but the family broke into the back of the ER and came running in before we even got the patient on the bed. Thankfully security was able to corral them and pen them up in the waiting room while they put the pt on BiPap, CPAP, and then intubated her....

The only thing that stopped me from telling those idiots off was that the ER had ice cream bars in the EMS fridge, so I ate that and sulked for a bit until I decided I didn't care.


As for bystander complaints, though, I had a caller who called for her ailing uncle who had a UTI diagnosed that morning (cipro of course not being taken as directed), who was still in discomfort and she wanted us to give him morphine and then leave him home so he could sleep. When informed that we do not give out narcotics to help people sleep through their penis pain (literally he was just saying that his penis hurt), and that all I could do was take him to the hospital and allow the doctor to make the decision, she said that I was stupid and useless and then asked if we took him, would there be a bill?

Needless to say, they signed a refusal and went POV to get their morphine for his penis pain, because we are stupid. :glare:


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## Gymratt

The location of one particular local nursing home is not the most accessible unless you use the parking lot of a local restaurant that connects to two roads. Most of the time it was only used during emergencies and heavy traffic as it could literally save 4-5 minutes of transport time. 

However, the manager called and told the supervisor that they did not want us using their parking lot as a cut through even in the event of an emergency as it made them look bad to the public. But the story doesn't end there. 

A crew stopped in for lunch and had ordered and the waitress had brought them their drinks when the same manager that had initially complained approached them. He  told them they would have to leave as they made them look bad. You are probably thinking at this point he was upset about the ambulance in the parking lot. But here is the thing, they had just gotten off work and was in private vehicles stopping for breakfast but were still in uniform. He said when people saw them there in uniform it gave people the impression they must have a lot of issues with food poisoning so if they wanted to eat there they would have to remove their uniform shirts. Needless to say they promptly left,,

I get its his restaurant and he can refuse service in certain cases but I was a bit astounded by this.


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## avdrummerboy

I've been berated with the usual I pay you paycheck, you work for me monologue, I usually ask them for a raise and they shut up about it. I work for a private non-profit company lol


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## Soldiermedic247

Either that or they have the ambulance service number memorized along with the local ems frequent flier card lol


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## Giant81

Gymratt said:


> ... He said when people saw them there in uniform it gave people the impression they must have a lot of issues with food poisoning.



dafuq?  I'd think exactly the opposite. If EMT/health department people are eating there it's probably clean.


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## CentralCalEMT

I HATE it when patient's families make up false complaints.

Awhile back, I was working on a unit and functioning as the shift supervisor. We ran a call at a frequent flyers house. PD and Fire were all ready there and the patient was annoyed to begin with since they did not want anyone other than the ambulance. We all did a good job remaining calm and professional and transported the patient. Shortly after the call, I get a call from dispatch saying a family member wants to file a formal complaint against the paramedic on the call (myself). I have them put the call through. The person complaining had no idea I was on the call. The caller proceeds to state that the "ambulance driver" on the call told the patient to "get the F*** on the gurney" he also said that I made the patient walk down the street to the ambulance. (We brought the gurney to the patient's bedside.) 

He then proceeds to tell me he is calling an attorney and will be seeking criminal charges because his brother who apparently is the chief paramedic of some midwest system or something told him it is illegal for EMS to not carry each and every patient. I proceed to tell him that I am very concerned about this complaint and will be launching an investigation. I told him since law enforcement was on scene, we will just pull their voice recorders they wear and see what the medic said. I told him if the complaint is substantiated that the medic is in big trouble. I told him if the complaint turns out to be false he can face legal liabilities. He then "withdrew" his complaint and said if he knew the cops wore voice recorders that he would not have made the complaint.


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## Kevinf

I had a recent home to hospice (respite care) transport. Got on scene and talked to the daughter and her husband who were caring for her mother for a bit regarding her condition. I checked on the patient and how we would be extricating her. The patient was on the second floor of their home. The patient had no muscle tone whatsoever, unable to support her own weight and would flop about per the daughter. The stairs were partially blocked by a mechanical chair lift which the family asked us NOT to use given her condition, the lift blocked at least 1/3 of the stairwell for the track and at most 1/2 the stairwell where the chair itself sat. The chair lift gave us just enough room to get a stair chair by. The stairwell had short landings with 90 degree turns at both the top and bottom with banisters. The patient was about 5'6" and ~160lbs, but I requested another unit for a lift assist to assuage the family's concerns of safety during transfer and extrication.

Taking all of this into consideration I informed the family that we would be using a stair chair to get the patient down safely. I explained how the situation made other methods impractical (they wanted us to take the whole stretcher up! Absolutely impossible) and that the stair chair would be by far the most secure and safe way to get her downstairs. I had spent about 20 minutes talking to the family at length and answering all questions and explaining what we would be doing and why. Our lift assist arrived and we began extricating the patient. I placed an appropriately sized C-Collar on the patient to maintain airway patentcy and prevent her head from lolling about and potentially hitting something. A memory foam pillow was placed on the stair chair seat, and a blanket on the stair chair back for patient comfort. We wrapped her in a blanket burrito style to keep her limbs and upper body stable and did a four man transfer from bed to stair chair. She was secured with straps across her lap and chest and soft boots placed on her feet and her legs were secured with the leg strap. We rolled the stair chair to the stairwell and took her down with two men and a spotter. The stair chair had tracks and was smoothly rolled down without incident and we needed to lift the chair to clear the lift and banister. The family was present and watching this entire process as they followed us upstairs and down. The stretcher was waiting in the living room and the patient was four man sheet lifted stair chair to stretcher and rolled out to the rig and secured inside where I removed the C-Collar. My lift assisted cleared and we proceeded to the hospice home.

We arrived without incident and the patient was rolled inside and transferred via two EMT and two hospice staff sheet pull to a bed and left in the care of the staff present in room. The patient's daughter arrived as we were rolling our stretcher back out to our rig. She stopped us in front of the hospice staff and proceeded to tearfully admonish me that she thought we were too rough with her mother and that there had to have been a better way to get her downstairs. I could hardly believe my ears but I kept my composure and reminded her that we had spent a good deal of time with her explaining what we would be doing and how and also how we had used extra man-power to get her safely out of bed and downstairs with all the devices used well padded and her mother kept warm and safe and why other methods would be impractical. She still felt there was a better way and I asked her what she thought we could have done differently... and she was unable to answer.

That particular complaint was upsetting to me because I went all out to ensure that the family was well informed and the patient was kept both comfortable and safe during the entire process. _Sometimes there is no winning._


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## TheLocalMedic

My biggest issue (currently) with complaints is that regardless of how silly or wrong the complaint is, our supervisors and management always bring the complaint right to us.  Whether it be someone who was startled by our siren, someone who felt that we didn't believe they had an obscure condition that they looked up online, someone who was upset that we passed them over the double yellow when they wouldn't yield, or the fire department complaining that they didn't think we were following protocol (yes, these were all real complaints, and the fire dept "medic" was wrong, because _he_ was the one who didn't know the protocol) our management still calls us into the office for each complaint to explain ourselves.  

It's ridiculous that I should have to defend myself against frivolous complaints, especially when the complaint itself proves that I was either in the right or the person making the complaint was wrong or misinformed.  Now, if there was merit to the complaint, then I'd understand.  But seriously? You need to talk to me about the guy who says our sirens are too loud for pedestrians?  Give me a break.


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## BOS 101

OMG this forum makes me laugh and rage all at once
I freaking hate people, the stupidity never fully shocks me but sometimes it can catch you off guard


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## Amelia

TheLocalMedic said:


> A couple years ago we had some tweaker start screaming that we were kidnapping his neighbor as we were trying to load up a patient.  He kept running around the ambulance, flapping his arms and asking why nobody was doing anything to save his neighbor from us.  It was all pretty funny until he punched a firefighter who was trying to calm him down, then it got hilarious...



I know this post is really really old, but holy cow, this made me laugh so hard!!


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## ERDoc

You think dealing with the complains sucks, wait to you have to deal with patient satisfaction and it affects your paycheck.


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## sirengirl

ERDoc said:


> You think dealing with the complains sucks, wait to you have to deal with patient satisfaction and it affects your paycheck.


That's still the biggest crap ever.


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## ERDoc

I don't make the rules (or have any say in them), I'm just forced to play by them.


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## COmedic17

The look I make when bystanders try to control my scene


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## ERDoc

I make the same face when a family member of a pt happens to be an MA and tells me how to practice.


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## COmedic17

ERDoc said:


> I make the same face when a family member of a pt happens to be an MA and tells me how to practice.


I make that face on a routine basis.

It's the same face I make when ED staff refers to me as the "ambulance driver".


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## Chimpie

ERDoc said:


> You think dealing with the complains sucks, wait to you have to deal with patient satisfaction and it affects your paycheck.





sirengirl said:


> That's still the biggest crap ever.



I concur.


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## ERDoc

COmedic17 said:


> I make that face on a routine basis.
> 
> It's the same face I make when ED staff refers to me as the "ambulance driver".



Same here and then I correct them on the proper terms.  It hasn't been an issue in quite some time.


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## sirengirl

Recently (ish) had a call for cardiac at a doctors office. In the ambo trying to get an IV (hypotensive and Brady), all of a sudden my partner in the airway seat lunges up and looked pissed. I turn and realize some old man is literally climbing up the back door the ambulance, banging on the door, looking in, and yelling at us to move the ambulance because he is a very important person who cannot stand to be stuck in his parking spot one more second. He swiftly received a lecture from my partner about interfering with emergency personnel...


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## johnrsemt

Be happy he was just banging on door.  We had a person who moved our ambulance around the back of a restaurant while we were in side on a run (lights on and all);  the police arrested him as he was climbing in the engine to move it.


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## ZombieEMT

CodeBru1984 said:


> Got told by an older private security guard that my partner and I weren't allowed to park and idle in an empty shopping center parking lot around 0130 one night. He then proceeded to say that the only people who were allowed to park and idle in said empty shopping center parking lot were emergency responders, on duty and in their respective apparatus. He failed to notice the word AMBULANCE on the side of our rig, and despite us informing him that we are emergency responders, he wouldn't hear it and told us to move or he would be notifying the police department so a citation could be issued.


 
The word ambulance is printed on most ambulances. While they all might be considered an emergency vehicle, they are not always on an emergency assignment. In fact some ambulances do not really provide an emergency response. Where you in fact on an emergency assignment, or were you just parking there to park there? If you were on an actual assignment, you should not have moved. If not, they have the right to ask you to move, it is private property. Just because you are inside of a vehicle that says ambulance does not mean you can park anywhere you want... Actually scratch that, even on an emergency assignment, they have a right to tell you to move. Still private property. You can tell a cop they can't come in your home without a warrant, same principal.


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## ZombieEMT

sirengirl said:


> Not a "bystander complaint" but related to this- had to restrain myself with every fiber of my being a few shifts ago not to march out into the waiting room and read the family the riot act. Transported a 70ish lung CA patient with acute SOB which by the time we got her in the truck went from sitting up, tripoding and 2-3 word sentences, to agonal with rales and flash PE. Partner took the call and I took us in P1 to the nearest ER, about 2-4 miles, and happen to notice in my rear view that the family had turned the flashers on their Rav 4 on and are speeding down residential roads super close behind me, blowing stop signs, and running red lights- right by a cop, too, who did nothing (law enforcement in my area is, sadly, notoriously useless for helping us and in fact creates more work for EMS by shoving people off on us that they don't want to deal with). While it was an oversight of me not to run back into the house and tell them not to follow me, I feel like it's fairly common knowledge that you are NOT ALLOWED to follow an ambulance. I don't care who I've got in the truck, you just DON'T follow my ambulance as if putting on your 4-ways is going to transform your mid-size SUV into an emergency response vehicle and give you the right to break traffic laws.
> 
> Not only that, but the family broke into the back of the ER and came running in before we even got the patient on the bed. Thankfully security was able to corral them and pen them up in the waiting room while they put the pt on BiPap, CPAP, and then intubated her....
> 
> The only thing that stopped me from telling those idiots off was that the ER had ice cream bars in the EMS fridge, so I ate that and sulked for a bit until I decided I didn't care.
> 
> 
> As for bystander complaints, though, I had a caller who called for her ailing uncle who had a UTI diagnosed that morning (cipro of course not being taken as directed), who was still in discomfort and she wanted us to give him morphine and then leave him home so he could sleep. When informed that we do not give out narcotics to help people sleep through their penis pain (literally he was just saying that his penis hurt), and that all I could do was take him to the hospital and allow the doctor to make the decision, she said that I was stupid and useless and then asked if we took him, would there be a bill?
> 
> Needless to say, they signed a refusal and went POV to get their morphine for his penis pain, because we are stupid. :glare:



I think the issue with this is your error, not the families. The truth is, not everybody knows not to follow an ambulance. Some people think that putting on their flashers and riding close the ambulance is safe. Some people are just stupid. Some people are just in an off state because their family is in trouble, they are not thinking right. Its your fault for not telling them in the beginning to not follow and drive by all traffic laws. That's your error not theirs. When you noticed them following, you could have also stopped and told them to not follow. 

As for the family running into the ED, are you kidding me? Again, their family has a life threatening issue. Not necessarily thinking straight. Even when they are, they want to know what is happening. Not as bad as you make it sound. Its not someone just driving recklessly and being nosey.


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## Chimpie

ZombieEMT said:


> Its your fault for not telling them in the beginning to not follow and drive by all traffic laws. That's your error not theirs. When you noticed them following, you could have also stopped and told them to not follow.


I completely disagree with you on this one. It's not up to EMS personnel to instruct others how to drive, nor should they stop, pull over, and tell them not to follow. 

I can instantly see their response be, "Why are you stopping?" "You're ambulance drivers! Don't tell me how to drive!"


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## CodeBru1984

ZombieEMT said:


> The word ambulance is printed on most ambulances. While they all might be considered an emergency vehicle, they are not always on an emergency assignment. In fact some ambulances do not really provide an emergency response. Where you in fact on an emergency assignment, or were you just parking there to park there? If you were on an actual assignment, you should not have moved. If not, they have the right to ask you to move, it is private property. Just because you are inside of a vehicle that says ambulance does not mean you can park anywhere you want... Actually scratch that, even on an emergency assignment, they have a right to tell you to move. Still private property. You can tell a cop they can't come in your home without a warrant, same principal.



Not sure who you are, but to assume that I don't know, nor obey the law in regards to emergency vehicles and their daily operations in emergency and non-emergency situations is foolish. Also to assume that I don't know the difference between a emergency response ambulance, and a non-emergency response ambulance is even more foolish as I've worked in both areas of EMS respectively.

Anyways... To clarify. My partner and I, at the time, worked for a combination primary 911/Inter-facility agency and were posted at company assigned, and approved post in the parking lot of a local shopping center just down the street from the local Fire & EMS dispatch.


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## cprted

Chimpie said:


> I completely disagree with you on this one. It's not up to EMS personnel to instruct others how to drive, nor should they stop, pull over, and tell them not to follow.
> 
> I can instantly see their response be, "Why are you stopping?" "You're ambulance drivers! Don't tell me how to drive!"


I tell people how to drive all the time.  "Nice and slow, take your time getting there.  You're of no help to anyone if you get into a wreck on the way to the hospital."

If someone is driving unsafely and tailgating me, you better believe I'm going to shut it down.  They're creating dangerous conditions for me and them.


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## Jim37F

There was one time we were transporting a patient code 3 and noticed the husband was following us through red lights and the like, we pulled over, told him explicitly not to do that, noticed he promptly ignored us and followed us through the next red light so we just shut down the lights and sirens and continued code 2 to the hospital.


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## CodeBru1984

Jim37F said:


> There was one time we were transporting a patient code 3 and noticed the husband was following us through red lights and the like, we pulled over, told him explicitly not to do that, noticed he promptly ignored us and followed us through the next red light so we just shut down the lights and sirens and continued code 2 to the hospital.


I did that last week. Had a family member tailgating us through all the intersections. My medic took notice, and asked me to shut it down and continue in code 2. The family member sure was curious as to why we reduced enroute to the hospital.


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