# Aid / O2 bags



## keith10247 (Mar 8, 2008)

Good Evening everyone!  

I had a question about Aid bags and O2 bags.  We currently have an aid bag that requires some searching to find things inside of it.  With our O2 bag, in order to get the O2 bottle out, you have to remove the intubation kit and sometimes it can be a challenge cramming all of the NRBs and NCs and BVMs in to it.  

I have seen these "Modular" aid bags and O2 bags that look pretty spiffy.  Anybody have an preference when it comes to Aid/O2 bags?

Thanks! 

--Keith


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## KEVD18 (Mar 8, 2008)

i prefer a comprehensive trauma/02 bag. two big pockets with trauma stuff on either side. one big center compartment with tank and masks etc in mesh pockets lining the main compt. and an end compartment for scope/cuff.

something along the lines of:






this is another version with the two side pockets made into four. it well made and sturdy, but at almost three times the cost, im not convinced.





having a comprehensive jump bag makes things easier. one bag, less to carry. im all for reducing my work load.


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## keith10247 (Mar 8, 2008)

Our trauma bag contains A LOT of stuff.  We Carry everything from a 3 pack of BP Cuffs, thermoscan, glucometer, IV start kits, 2 500 bags, hot/cold packs, bandages, tape, 500ml bottle sterile water and saline, small sharps container, burn sheets, chux...a lot of things... in our O2 bag we carry 4 adult/ped NRB, 4 adult/ped NC, 3 BVM (Adult, ped, infant), humidifiers, nebulizers, combi tubes, intubation roll, and a pulse ox.  

I am not envisioning how we can fit that all in to 1 bag.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 8, 2008)

keith10247 said:


> Our trauma bag contains A LOT of stuff.  We Carry everything from a 3 pack of BP Cuffs, thermoscan, glucometer, IV start kits, 2 500 bags, hot/cold packs, bandages, tape, 500ml bottle sterile water and saline, small sharps container, burn sheets, chux...a lot of things... in our O2 bag we carry 4 adult/ped NRB, 4 adult/ped NC, 3 BVM (Adult, ped, infant), humidifiers, nebulizers, combi tubes, intubation roll, and a pulse ox.
> 
> I am not envisioning how we can fit that all in to 1 bag.



Cut down on how much stuff you carry in the bag.  Really, how often are you going to use 4 NRB (adult or otherwise) with only one O2 bottle?  Having a second of something may not be a bad idea, but you need to be realistic about the quantities you are carrying in the bag.  Get down to what is essential to treat one patient, and leave the rest on the ambulance.

On my vollie dept. we carry the following in our bags (off the top of my head):
O2 cylinder with 1 adult and 1 peds NRB
1 IV setup with 1000ml NSS and chux
1 adult BP cuff
Same selection of BVM's with full set of OPA and NPA's
And the usual selection of bandages, tape, etc...

At the paid service I work at we have the following in the bag:
Drug kit (except the narcs)
IV setup
Glucometer
Intubation equipment
1 Adult BP cuff
Same selection of BVM's with full set of OPA and NPA's
And the usual selection of bandages, tape, etc...
Our O2 cylinder is attached to the cot, and we keep the NRB's and NC's with the cylinder.


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## Diver911 (Mar 8, 2008)

keith10247 said:


> Our trauma bag contains A LOT of stuff.  We Carry everything from a 3 pack of BP Cuffs, thermoscan, glucometer, IV start kits, 2 500 bags, hot/cold packs, bandages, tape, 500ml bottle sterile water and saline, small sharps container, burn sheets, chux...a lot of things... in our O2 bag we carry 4 adult/ped NRB, 4 adult/ped NC, 3 BVM (Adult, ped, infant), humidifiers, nebulizers, combi tubes, intubation roll, and a pulse ox.
> 
> I am not envisioning how we can fit that all in to 1 bag.



That is an insane amount to carry for one/two patients.  Consolidate as much as possible and maybe it wont be as hard or time consuming to locate an individual piece of equipment.  To carry that many NRBs and BVMs seems overkill to me.  Do you not know your patients status before you get there?  "We have a 17 y/o male with difficulty breathing....etc.." or "a 4 y/o boy who fell from bunk bed, unresponsive...etc.."  That could give you time to select the appropriate NRB, BP cuff, BVM..  This could reduce time fumbling around in a bag searching and providing care sooner...

Plus you have to carry both bags and worry about the patient on the way back to the rig... again seems overkill to me...


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## keith10247 (Mar 8, 2008)

Definitely very valid points.  The policy of belongs in the aid/O2 bag was set way before I came on board.  We also carry an O2 cylinder on our cot.  I really wish we did cut down because that crap all adds up in weight.

I think one of the reasons we carry what we do is because of the terrain.  We are somewhat rural in half of our first due.  Some of the time, we cannot get our ambulance anywhere near the house due to mountainous terrain or heavily wooded areas.  We actually keep a Suburban fully stocked with backboard, O2 bag, same aid bag, and a LP12 incase we cannot get the ambulance within a reasonable distance; especially during inclement weather.  Looking back, maybe the "monster medic" was not the right selection for half of our first due.

Also,  I am not sure if maybe the county set a standard of what we need to carry in our bags.  I believe a lot of the neighboring stations also carry all the extras too.  It would surprise me if there was no extra reason we carry all the extra crap.  

I shall investigate.


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## Diver911 (Mar 8, 2008)

Being in a rural area, this usually means a relatively long response time (not always I know..).  This could give you time to prepare for what the call is + a little extra for the unknown..


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## keith10247 (Mar 9, 2008)

It definitely would, however, we are unfortunately understaffed at the station so we typically respond with a driver and EMT/Officer who navigates upfront until we arrive on scene.  In all honestly, we don't always grab both bags when we get on scene.  If it is a difficulty breathing, we typically will leave the aid bag behind and bring just the LP12 and O2.  We are a BLS unit most of the time (sometimes we upgrade to ALS if we have a medic at the station) so we have no need for the IV start kits and typically we do not need band-aids and what not.  If it is a call where a kid fell off his bike and scraped his knee, we will typically leave the O2 bag and LP12 behind and just grab the aid bag.  

Perhaps it falls under the premise of "the more crap we carry in, the more prepared we look" or something.  

It is very interesting to me how various agencies run so differently from others.


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## Diver911 (Mar 9, 2008)

Yeah I thought that you could be understaffed after I posted my previous...
Well it seems to be working, keep thinking of other ways to make it better and at some point you will.  Always wanting to improve your system doesnt hurt...good luck!


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## KEVD18 (Mar 9, 2008)

keith10247 said:


> Our trauma bag contains A LOT of stuff.  We Carry everything from a 3 pack of BP Cuffs, thermoscan, glucometer, IV start kits, 2 500 bags, hot/cold packs, bandages, tape, 500ml bottle sterile water and saline, small sharps container, burn sheets, chux...a lot of things... in our O2 bag we carry 4 adult/ped NRB, 4 adult/ped NC, 3 BVM (Adult, ped, infant), humidifiers, nebulizers, combi tubes, intubation roll, and a pulse ox.
> 
> I am not envisioning how we can fit that all in to 1 bag.



first, realize that your first on bag only need to have enough equipment to get you to the truck, not everything thats already in the truck.

chop down to the bar minimum and youd be fine. ive seen it done.


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## emtwacker710 (Mar 31, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> i prefer a comprehensive trauma/02 bag. two big pockets with trauma stuff on either side. one big center compartment with tank and masks etc in mesh pockets lining the main compt. and an end compartment for scope/cuff.
> 
> something along the lines of:
> 
> ...



we have the same bag but green for our BLS supplies and it works great, for our ALS supplies we have a similiar bag but it is a bit bigger to hold all of the ALS supplies


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## mycrofft (Jul 1, 2008)

*Like they said, plus...*

I am going to start a thread somewhere about the "Murphy's Laws of the EMS Kit" or some such.

When you step to the patient and ask what's wrong, what do you NEED to have and to do to get them to your unit alive? Bring that. Keep the rest organized in your unit. Don't over-supply in quantity or quality, label profusely, and the run isn't over until you are ready to go again. 

In committee meetings, the Law of Infinite Preparedness usually prevails, to whit: "Sometimes THIS may happen, and if we are not prepared for THIS, no matter how rarely it happens, we are responsible, negligent, etc.".

I like how Survival Shop works for military pilots; they provide the basic stuff and an ejection seat that might kill you but works on demand. The pilot assembles those items he/she feels are essential and has a finite and small space to put them into. Same concept for smokejumpers and their "personal gear"; some bring fishing gear and a skillet. 

Our "basic bag"  resembles KEVD18's description, it's made by Iron Duck and is (was?) sold through Lifeassist. I don't like mesh but it'll do.


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