# National Registry Reciprocity for New York with paramedic refresher course



## kirkunit (Feb 28, 2011)

Hello.  I have a bit of an unusual situation that I'm hoping someone can help me out with.  I wasnt sure what forum to post it in so I just put it here.  Its complicated but please stay with me.

Anyway, I'm currently finishing up a national registry paramedic program in Nebraska and will be moving back to New York state where Im originally from.  Because New York is the most backward and mismanaged state in the country, they do not recognize national registry, despite the fact that their DOH medic curriculum requirements are exactly copied from national registry.  So what NYS wants you to do to get a paramedic card for the state if your an NREMT-P is to fully take a state paramedic refresher course and then the NYS practicals and written exam.  Refreshers around where I'll be moving all seem to be around 5 months, almost 150 Hrs, and only offered once a year starting in January.  Thats total BS and im not going to wait an entire extra year to work in NY as a medic, especially when I'm already a NYS AEMT-CC and have already worked in the state for years doing ALS.

The NYS DOH further says that paramedic certifications from other states will be honored, but that you would have to take that state's refresher course and the state's specific written and practical exam.  From the research Ive done, it seems that most refresher courses in other states are far shorter than what Id have to take in NY, and that it would make more sense for me to just take a refresher course in another state and get that state's medic card to take to the NY DOH for reciprocity.  Ive also noticed that there seem to be online medic refresher courses available.

So my final question is this: what states that accept national registry have the shortest refresher courses and a state-specific practical/written exam?  Preferably something online would be best, even better if its a self-paced format that I could bang out in a few weeks.  If anybody knows anything at all about any of this or has experience getting reciprocity from New York state with National Registry I truly thank you for any info you can give me.  And thank you to everyone who took the time to read through all of that.


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## kirkunit (Feb 28, 2011)

For example, do you think that this would work for what I'm trying to do: eeii.org/REFRESHERS?  would I take a medic exam for Florida after I finished that?


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## 46Young (Feb 28, 2011)

I know what you mean. I worked for two years as a medic in the NYC 911 system. I was considering getting a per diem job back at my old hospital at one point. Can't you do a challenge refresher when you get to NY? They usually run no more than two months. Whatever you score less than a 90% on, you sit for that class. Work as an EMT-B in the meantime, until you get your state P-card back.

Edit: I know that NS-LIJ has challenge refreshers, and NY Mehtodist should have them as well.


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## kirkunit (Feb 28, 2011)

My understanding is that you cant do the challenge refresher for when your trying to get reciprocity for national registry, you have to go through the whole thing.  and none of them near me are that short, plus they wouldnt even start until january and ill already be back this summer.  I was never a NYS paramedic, Im only finishing up a national registry medic course now.  and im not willing to work more than a very brief period as anything less than a medic.  I could work as a CC for awhile, but employment options and shifts for CCs where Ill be are EXTREMELY limited.


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## firecoins (Feb 28, 2011)

If your recognized by another state, can't you skip that.  Like if your Nebraska certified, you should get reciprocity, no?


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## kirkunit (Feb 28, 2011)

this is what makes it complicated.  From the NYS DOH guidlines for paramedic reciprocity:

"Unrecognized Reciprocities

Reciprocity is not granted for any certification or license that was obtained by reciprocity. If the applicant was granted reciprocity by the state from which they are applying, the applicant must also have completed that state’s refresher and/or training requirements, including a practical and written
exam within the last three years."

I dont believe nebraska has any exam of their own, and just exclusively uses National Registry.  So I believe that would mean in New York's eyes that technically Nebraska is granting you reciprocity for your national registry, which wouldnt count for NYS without a separate refresher and state specific exam.  Anywhere I go for a state card I would be in effect granted reciprocity for that state.  So I need to find a state that not only will give me a medic card just for having NR without any additional requirements, but also has its own refresher program and state exam that is seperate from NR that I could take to satisfy New York's requirements for reciprocity.  Can you believe that crap?  Isnt New York just incredibly stupid?


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## kirkunit (Feb 28, 2011)

Or actually now that I read that again Im not so sure if i would necessarily have to take a refresher course, but it seems that no matter what it wants me to take some state specific medic exam and not just have a state card that I got automatically with NR.  So at the very least I need to find a state that will recognize NR AND has its own exam I could take.  I think...


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## akflightmedic (Feb 28, 2011)

kirkunit said:


> this is what makes it complicated.  From the NYS DOH guidlines for paramedic reciprocity:
> 
> "Unrecognized Reciprocities
> 
> ...



Do you have a State of Nebraska Medic card? If the state decides to use the NR exam as their state exam, this is not reciprocity.

It appears NY is trying to keep someone who has gone state to state getting reciprocity from entering their system without validating that they have had a refresher recently.

Makes sense, because essentially one could go state to state, let old state lapse, have 2-3 years in new state, then go to another state and get 2-3 years while letting that one lapse...and then after a while there is someone floating with a card who has never attended any CME/refresher trying to move into NY.   Someone has tried it, otherwise the rule would not exist...LOL.

Your best bet is to contact NY and speak to their licensing body regarding this. I imagine you are not the first to walk this path.


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## kirkunit (Feb 28, 2011)

yeah Im going to call them tomorrow to try and figure this all out.  I dont currently have a Nebraska card as Im still finishing up the course.  To my knowledge all I have to do to get a Nebraska medic card once Im done with the course is just submit an application packet that includes proof of my passing the NR exam.  I just wasnt sure if that would be good enough for NYS since its all just NR and there is no state specific exam.  all that wording about refresher courses was confusing me.  If I talk to the DOH and they say that having a fresh Nebraska medic card is good enough even if I got it through NR then that would be awesome.  But its New York, so I dont have my hopes up


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## mgr22 (Mar 1, 2011)

Akflightmedic is exactly right. The intent is to prevent someone from moving from state to state, getting certified through reciprocity each time, and never having to refresh according to NY rules. For example, I was a medic in NY, then moved to TN and became a medic here through reciprocity (pretty easy to do). If I moved back to NY now, five years later, I'd be lacking NY's recertification criteria.

I can understand your frustration, but I also understand the logic of the situation from NY's point of view.


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## Scott33 (Mar 1, 2011)

It's all very confusing.

Can I just ask, without trying to hijack the thread, if it is permissible for a NY state resident EMT-CC, to take an out of state medic course which includes NR, and immediately apply to NY state for reciprocity upon successful completion? Note, there would be no break in NY residency.

Mgr22 - do you know if SCEMS would have an issue with this?

I have a buddy doing this very thing.


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## firecoins (Mar 1, 2011)

just call NYS DOH.  Ask them and tell them.  If the EMT-CC is upto date and the NR medic is up to date and Nebraska recognized you, you many not need a refreasher.  

If you do need a refreasher, its 3 months and not a big deal. A challenge refreasher is less time than an EMT class.


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## mgr22 (Mar 1, 2011)

Scott33 said:


> It's all very confusing.
> 
> Can I just ask, without trying to hijack the thread, if it is permissible for a NY state resident EMT-CC, to take an out of state medic course which includes NR, and immediately apply to NY state for reciprocity upon successful completion? Note, there would be no break in NY residency.
> 
> ...



The rules in NY differ for medics who were certified in NY, then moved, then want to come back; and medics who were never certified in NY. I don't think that applies if you gain higher certification in another state, then come back to NY.

NY grants reciprocity to medics never before certified as medics in NY. It's based on consideration of the training they got in the other state, and has nothing to do with the NREMT.

You can find a reciprocity packet on the NY EMS website, or I can email you one, if you send me your address.

Regarding SCEMS, any incoming medic would have to pass a county protocols exam, and be a member of a SCEMS agency. Contact Tom Lateulere, Chief of Training, for more details.


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## Scott33 (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks mgr

It wasn't for me, just someone I ride with. He is insistent he has all his ducks in a row and thought it would be "easier" to do one of those online medic programs with a Texas based company, fly down for a few weeks to bang out his clinicals, sit and (I don't doubt) pass his TX state and NR exams, then try to get reciprocity from NY state.

It's his decision, money, and time - but I can't help thinking things would have been a lot easier just to do the medic original in NY, particularly given he would get advanced standing being a CC


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## mgr22 (Mar 1, 2011)

Scott33 said:


> Thanks mgr
> 
> It wasn't for me, just someone I ride with. He is insistent he has all his ducks in a row and thought it would be "easier" to do one of those online medic programs with a Texas based company, fly down for a few weeks to bang out his clinicals, sit and (I don't doubt) pass his TX state and NR exams, then try to get reciprocity from NY state.
> 
> It's his decision, money, and time - but I can't help thinking things would have been a lot easier just to do the medic original in NY, particularly given he would get advanced standing being a CC



NY is giving advanced standing to CCs who want to be medics? Since when? That certainly didn't happen when I was there. The CCs I taught were treated the same as other students.

If I lived in NY and wanted to work as a medic in NY, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't look for a medic class in NY. If your friend wants to consider good programs vs. easy programs, I could make a suggestion.


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## Scott33 (Mar 1, 2011)

mgr22 said:


> NY is giving advanced standing to CCs who want to be medics? Since when? That certainly didn't happen when I was there. The CCs I taught were treated the same as other students.



Since 1999 

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/99-04.htm

I do think it is NY DOH's dirty little secret however, as up until recently it wasn't something they went out of their way to advertise. These days, most programs will mention it as they know there is a big market for CC's to up to medics.

http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/un...rams/ems/paramedic/faq_paramedic_original.stj

http://www.hsc.stonybrook.edu/shtm/paramedic/requirements.cfm



> If I lived in NY and wanted to work as a medic in NY, I can't think of any reason I wouldn't look for a medic class in NY. If your friend wants to consider good programs vs. easy programs, I could make a suggestion.



I agree with you entirely. Like I said though, his decision :glare:


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## kirkunit (Mar 7, 2011)

Scott33 said:


> Since 1999
> 
> http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/99-04.htm
> 
> ...




The medic programs near where I lived in New York were not willing to give me advanced standing as an EMT-CC.  thats why I took the medic course in nebraska since I was going to be there for a while anyway.  I think it must greatly vary by region.  I was in Erie Co. / Buffalo.  If I couldve gotten advanced standing I wouldve done that, but for someone who cant I would completely understand going another route than sitting through an entire year long medic original.  Id either want it condensed into a shorter time period or do some of it online so I dont have to disrupt my schedule as much.  Its kinda BS when a majority of the material was already covered in CC and you already have experience working in the field with identical (at least where I was) 911 protocols as a paramedic.  Im bored out of my mind in my NR medic class right now because I already know most of the material and have to sit through class after class of people asking dumb and repetitive questions about everything including really simple concepts because they've never learned any of it before


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## kirkunit (Mar 7, 2011)

Scott33 said:


> It's all very confusing.
> 
> Can I just ask, without trying to hijack the thread, if it is permissible for a NY state resident EMT-CC, to take an out of state medic course which includes NR, and immediately apply to NY state for reciprocity upon successful completion? Note, there would be no break in NY residency.
> 
> ...




This is the same thing I did.  With the NR medic certification you would still have to take a medic refresher course before NYS will grant you reciprocity.  You're level of care in NY dosent have any bearing on the issue, unless you had already been a medic in NY before.

However, if you use that NR certification to get a medic card from a state that exclusively uses NR, you can then take that state card to NYS and get your reciprocity without having to take a refresher course.  I was told this directly by the state DOH.  So instead of having to go to a class for a few months youd only have to wait the extra few weeks it would take to have a card issued by a national registry state.  Pretty obvious choice I think


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