# Medically trained police officers to patrol Tube network



## Martyn (May 21, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18145265


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## Tigger (May 21, 2012)

Every police officer in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (sounds more fancy that way) is trained to the first responder level. Whether or not that actually helps in any meaningful way is debatable, but if you're in cardiac arrest in many of the suburbs with a POC ambulance, you're best bet of survival is the cops arriving fast (which they do) and getting that AED on you (which they carry).


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## Jon (May 21, 2012)

I find it interesting they are training cops as medical responders, rather than working with NHS to get "tube medics"

The idea is solid, though. Will be interesting to see results.


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## smokeater (May 21, 2012)

Jon said:


> I find it interesting they are training cops as medical responders, rather than working with NHS to get "tube medics"
> 
> The idea is solid, though. Will be interesting to see results.




Really good article in the May 2012 issue of JEMS. It actually goes into a good bit of detail for the logic behind providing the training, which to me seems like a no brainer, but their reasoning was quite different from what I reasoned. It also mentions the skills that they would be trained to employ. Some departments are teaching officers how to preform sutures. Dont remember what level of training they were bieng taught to, but the focus is on stopping hemorrhage in accessable and controlable reigons, hemorrhage in inaccessable and uncontrolable areas, and airway/respiratory management. Lastly they talked about the gear these guys would carry. Pretty interesting...might be able to find it online...the kits are called IFAK's and the primary department examined was Pima Co. in Arizona. Its really neat stuff...check it out.


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## medichopeful (May 21, 2012)

Tigger said:


> Every police officer in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (sounds more fancy that way) is trained to the first responder level. Whether or not that actually helps in any meaningful way is debatable, but if you're in cardiac arrest in many of the suburbs with a POC ambulance, you're best bet of survival is the cops arriving fast (which they do) and getting that AED on you (which they carry).



There was a case in my hometown a couple years ago where the police used an AED and the woman wound up living.  Or the police were involved in an AED revival in some way.


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## Martyn (May 21, 2012)

medichopeful said:


> There was a case in my hometown a couple years ago where the police used an AED and the woman wound up living. Or the police were involved in an AED revival in some way.


 

Hijacking my own thread, but:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHEr4RIQS1w[/YOUTUBE]


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## medichopeful (May 21, 2012)

Martyn said:


> Hijacking my own thread, but:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHEr4RIQS1w[/YOUTUBE]



Ironically the one in my town was near a car, but it wasn't that one! 

That video is impressive, I watched it when it came out.  Very well done on their part!


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## DPM (May 22, 2012)

It's most likely Transport for London and the British Transport Police and not the NHS because the NHS budget is in turmoil at the minute. Regardless of what it says on the uniforms, this sounds like it could be a good idea.


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## mycrofft (May 22, 2012)

The goal it to minimize tube delays. OK. Like their vests.

About suturing in the field...if you carry a hammer it's amazing howe many problems suddenly will suggest its use. Field suturing is very rarely necessary and carried the likelihood of needing to be re-opened to debride the wound, sometimes days or a week after the initial injury.


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## Impulse (May 22, 2012)

About the video, who was the woman who came in around the 2:50 mark?


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## bstone (May 23, 2012)

Tigger said:


> Every police officer in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (sounds more fancy that way) is trained to the first responder level.



This is incorrect.


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## Tigger (May 23, 2012)

bstone said:


> This is incorrect.



I may have misspoke, it appears the law only mandates CPR/AED and First Aid.

MGL Chapter 111, Section 201:


> Section 201. Members of police and fire departments, members of the state police participating in highway patrol, persons appointed permanent or temporary lifeguards by the commonwealth or any of its political subdivisions, and members of emergency reserve units of a volunteer fire department or fire protection district shall be trained to administer first aid, including, but not limited to, cardiopulmonary resuscitation by July first, nineteen hundred and seventy-eight, including those appointed on or after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy-six and may be trained in automatic or semi-automatic cardiac defibrillation. The training shall meet the standards for first aid training prescribed by the department and shall not be less than the standards established by the Committee on Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and Emergency Cardiac Care of the American Heart Association, and shall be satisfactorily completed by them as soon as practical, but in no event more than one year after the date of their employment. Satisfactory completion of a refresher course approved by the department in cardiopulmonary resuscitation each year and in other first aid every three years shall also be required. The training and equipment for automatic or semi-automatic cardiac defibrillation shall meet standards prescribed by the department.
> 
> The department shall coordinate the provision, by county, of training required by this section. Such training shall be provided at no cost to the trainee.
> 
> This section shall not apply to police officers, fire fighters and persons engaged in police and fire work whose duties are primarily clerical or administrative.



The last part makes it a little screwy I suppose as well. I've been told for years that First Responder was part of every police academy, I guess that's not always the case.


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## bstone (May 23, 2012)

Tigger said:


> I may have misspoke, it appears the law only mandates CPR/AED and First Aid.
> 
> MGL Chapter 111, Section 201:
> 
> ...



Most departments have a requirement to be CPR/AED certified and urge the officers to be first responders. My department requires CPR/AED but does not require First Responder. I am going to be offering the First Responder training in the next several months and hopefully more officers will take me up on it.


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## Tigger (May 23, 2012)

bstone said:


> Most departments have a requirement to be CPR/AED certified and urge the officers to be first responders. My department requires CPR/AED but does not require First Responder. I am going to be offering the First Responder training in the next several months and hopefully more officers will take me up on it.



It certainly seems like it would be easier to just teach the MFR program and satisfy all requirements of the law at once. Personally I think that's about the perfect amount of training for those that are not expected to routinely function in medical emergencies but might still find themselves present and expected to act until EMS arrival.


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## bstone (May 23, 2012)

Tigger said:


> It certainly seems like it would be easier to just teach the MFR program and satisfy all requirements of the law at once. Personally I think that's about the perfect amount of training for those that are not expected to routinely function in medical emergencies but might still find themselves present and expected to act until EMS arrival.



I paid very close attention to the articles in May 2012 of JEMS. I'm going to see how I can offer both the MFR and also focus on the "First Five Minutes". We have no shortage of 911 response around here so law enforcement is usually on scene for only 5 minutes before an ambulance shows up.


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## Akulahawk (May 23, 2012)

bstone said:


> I paid very close attention to the articles in May 2012 of JEMS. I'm going to see how I can offer both the MFR and also focus on the "First Five Minutes". We have no shortage of 911 response around here so law enforcement is usually on scene for only 5 minutes before an ambulance shows up.


In your area, teach them what needs to be done in that first 5 minutes, but also teach them to have a plan in case it takes longer for the ambulance to arrive. You don't want them to panic if the ambulance doesn't show up that quickly...


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## medichopeful (May 23, 2012)

Impulse said:


> About the video, who was the woman who came in around the 2:50 mark?



A nurse who happened to be driving by.


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## Tigger (May 23, 2012)

Jon said:


> I find it interesting they are training cops as medical responders, rather than working with NHS to get "tube medics"
> 
> The idea is solid, though. Will be interesting to see results.



I also thought of this, but then I wondered how effective this would be. Transit police are hopefully fairly near transit infrastructure meaning that they should have a pretty quick response time. They're also being productive when they're not out doing the medical thing. 

Meanwhile to have "tube medics" you either leave them to waste away somewhere (the call volume cannot be that high I'd bet), or have a specially trained crew in an ambulance taking calls invariably causing them to be doing something else when a tube call comes in. 

I think they picked the better solution here.


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## bstone (May 23, 2012)

Akulahawk said:


> In your area, teach them what needs to be done in that first 5 minutes, but also teach them to have a plan in case it takes longer for the ambulance to arrive. You don't want them to panic if the ambulance doesn't show up that quickly...



Good point, thus being taught the entire MFR course. We're saturated with ambulance services in this area. 5 minutes might be 7 or 9, at most.


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