# What do you love/hate about your rig?



## BossyCow (Aug 19, 2009)

I have to spec out our replacement ambulance for purchase in late 2010. So I want to hear what you love and hate about your rigs. What would you do differently? What did you wish it had? What do you wish they never bothered to put in there? 

Brands would be helpful, pics would be awesome. If you were designing your new rig, how would you like it to be. I probably won't be able to use everything and there will probably be some fat trimming after the first set of bids come in, but I want to start big.

It will probably be a Braun. Our current rig is a Wheeled Coach. I'm needing serious information so if you want to include things like a cowcatcher on the front for old people will an allergy to their rear view mirror, find another thread


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## Sasha (Aug 19, 2009)

Cup holders. It needs cupholders.


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## NEMed2 (Aug 19, 2009)

Make sure it has really good mirrors.  I don't know the model off the top of my head, but one of my ambulance has the worst mirrors in the world.  We actually had them replaced so many people complained about them.  I will get back to you with more info.


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## Dominion (Aug 19, 2009)

Backup cameras, reps brought a truck in one day to show off while I was working in supply (no partner that day).  So I got to play around and the backup cameras with sensors was really nice.  Fish eye lens and it made it about 20x easier to back the rig up without a spotter.

Trucks with a center mount stretcher.  

Cupholders....seriously don't know if Sasha is joking but ambulances need freaking cup holders.  

I was also partial to the novelty of glove compartments with the holes for the front of the glove box.  For some reason most of the ambulances around here have no glove box holders so you end up with 6 boxes of gloves just thrown whereever.

Warmers and coolers for various fluid and med needs.  

My perfect rig would include all of the above.  LED lighting inside and out.  I forget the name of the restraint system but you could wear it and move around and in the case of a crash it would lock up under high tension, only saw a demo online so don't know much about the efficiency of it, it also had a quick release on the front.  Sliding side door.  motorized stretcher lift. 'State of the art' electronics package with built in GPS unit with both street and satellite view (only useful in areas with current imaging).  Unique siren package (a combo of unique sound and the vibrating sirens I've seen, something that could possibly get the public to pay a bit more attention).  Padding on all sharp corners and impact points in the rear.  Mount points for monitors and other peices of equipment.  I also like the drawer and cabinet system I've seen in many of the sprinter ambulances from across the pond.  I'm sure there are more things but this is just some things I've been thinking of.


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## Sasha (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree with the center load stretcher, but I think the glove box holder would just be a waste. We have a glove box holder up at the top by the foot of the bench seat. It's so inconvienent you would have to stand and move to get to it, and when I need gloves I want them in arms reach. We still have a bunch of boxes all around.


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## Dominion (Aug 19, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I agree with the center load stretcher, but I think the glove box holder would just be a waste. We have a glove box holder up at the top by the foot of the bench seat. It's so inconvienent you would have to stand and move to get to it, and when I need gloves I want them in arms reach. We still have a bunch of boxes all around.



Center mount stretchers are SOOOO nice.  There are a few trucks in each fleet around here that have them and it's so nice when you're in that truck.  I hate not having a center mount.  The one example of a glove box would be a local departments truck.  They have a container for boxes built above your head on the bench seat so you reach up and have gloves.  They also have one mounted in the front of the truck for gloving up before getting out and another mount right next to the side door so if you come in that way you can get gloves (that side door usually only has large and x-large box).  The one above the bench seat has two boxes each of small/med/large/xlarge.  The front mount is between the seats and has small med large and xlarge also but only one box of each.


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## mycrofft (Aug 19, 2009)

*Been a while, but generically*

No little compartments to use up space.
Nothing using velcro "latches" which you open and close a lot, and no zippers where you will hardly ever open or close something a lot (one wears out, the other corrodes shut).
Rounded corners and edges on stuff.
Ease of access for maintenance to wiring for lights, radios, intercom, and they are routed away from oxygen. Will you need to remove the dashboard for simple repairs to switches, controls, etc.?
See if a gang of switches has to be totally replaced if it goes out, or if one switch module can be replaced if it goes out.
Multiple belts (or wide belts) from engine to alternators, other takeoff goodies.
GOOD patient compartment exhaust fan.
GOOD patient compartment heating and A/C unit.
In cab battery switch and dual batteries. Should be a hefty rotary switch, not a little switch which uses battery juice to throw a solenoid switch to load the real juice to the starter etc.
Flush mounted lights on the side of the unit, not "cans" which can get scraped off.
Enough/sufficient electric outlets to run rechargers and other electrical gadgets you will be using.
Gooseneck or "suspensor"-style spring arm lamps: Up to you. Avoid fiberoptic goosenecks, they break and are ridiculously expensive albeit cool.
Shelves equipment will rest upon should be at least 3/4 in plywood under the veneer, you may want to mount brackets or mounting straps to secure stuff there and you don't want to ahve to cope with flimsy shelves or disintegrating particle board.
In fact, avoid particle board.Heavy and not as strong as ply, offgasses fumes in the heat.
TOUGH upholstery.
Exterior access to exterior equipment, interior access to interior equipment.
No electronic locks.
Nothing using foam if you can avoid it. Loses loft with age, tears, crumbles. Exception is sprayed polyurethane insulation in outside compartments.
FUrnishings on interior sealed to floor for ease of cleaning and keeping snow and rain off boots out of your hidden areas and floor level compartments.
Make sure any compartments over the wheelwells are absolutely sealed to hold out the outside.
Eight-track.


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## Flight-LP (Aug 20, 2009)

Want cupholder? Go with Chevy, they have them up front, out of the way, but easy to access. Plus, they will hold a Sonic Route 44 soda with ease! 

My biggest suggestion, get rid of the bench and replace it with 2 angled seats with rotating capability and appropriate harnesses. The current standard bench serves no practical purpose as it is the most unsafe place to sit and the recent opinion against multiple patient transports. I never ride on the bench and will not allow anyone on my crew to do so.


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## medic417 (Aug 20, 2009)

As a Ford fan I sadly must say do not buy a Ford.  Nothing but trouble with their diesels.  I hate the chevy cab, but the Duramax is awesome.  Have not tried the dodge yet.  


These are great ambulances.  
http://www.frazerbilt.com/flash.php


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## Dominion (Aug 20, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> Want cupholder? Go with Chevy, they have them up front, out of the way, but easy to access. Plus, they will hold a Sonic Route 44 soda with ease!
> 
> My biggest suggestion, get rid of the bench and replace it with 2 angled seats with rotating capability and appropriate harnesses. The current standard bench serves no practical purpose as it is the most unsafe place to sit and the recent opinion against multiple patient transports. I never ride on the bench and will not allow anyone on my crew to do so.



Do you have a center mount on your trucks?  If not how do you manage to do anything from the head without sitting on the bench?  

I forgot about the individual swivel seats instead of the bench and I agree on that point.  They'd be nice to have, the ones I've seen (in online demos and articles) move back and forth also so you don't have to remove the harness.


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## Dominion (Aug 20, 2009)

medic417 said:


> As a Ford fan I sadly must say do not buy a Ford.  Nothing but trouble with their diesels.  I hate the chevy cab, but the Duramax is awesome.  Have not tried the dodge yet.
> 
> 
> These are great ambulances.
> http://www.frazerbilt.com/flash.php



This is what the fire service (that I do ride time at) uses for their ambulances and I can't stand them.  They have nice back compartments but the ride sucks and they are always in the shop.


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## medic417 (Aug 20, 2009)

Dominion said:


> This is what the fire service (that I do ride time at) uses for their ambulances and I can't stand them.  They have nice back compartments but the ride sucks and they are always in the shop.



Thats the chassis fault whether ford, chevy, etc, not Fraizer.


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## Dominion (Aug 20, 2009)

It's a GMC whatever.  The back is nice atleast.  I figured the company was the one who made the ride suck because of the air suspension system that is tied into the back module.


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## WolfmanHarris (Aug 20, 2009)

Dominion said:


> Backup cameras


Argreed. All our new trucks have them and their great.



> I forget the name of the restraint system but you could wear it and move around and in the case of a crash it would lock up under high tension, only saw a demo online so don't know much about the efficiency of it, it also had a quick release on the front.



Avoid these novelties. Not backed up by science and some are actually more dangerous in a crash. Go to www.objectivesafety.net and look at the ongoing work of Dr. Nadine Levick in term of ambulance safety. She was brought over as a consultant for my service last year and all our new rigs are getting a redesign based on her input.

Also, ditch the squad bench entirely. Captain's chairs that can swivel into the safer front or rear facing and have a side impact zone that isn't your back are the way to go.


Think in terms of infection control and plan ahead for a vehicle with no traps and small spaces for contamination and redesigned to work with a fogging system. Limit seams in upholstery as much as possible and non mechanical switches in the action area.


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## medic417 (Aug 20, 2009)

Dominion said:


> It's a GMC whatever.  The back is nice atleast.  I figured the company was the one who made the ride suck because of the air suspension system that is tied into the back module.



Actually sounds like they, the service, went with a 4500 when a 3500 is plenty big for 95% OF ems.  mUCH SMOOTHER EVEN W/O THE AIR BAGS.

We have a 4500 sucks, way to rough. The 3500 smoothest ambulance I've been in besides maybe the old Cadillacs.


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## medic417 (Aug 20, 2009)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## Dominion (Aug 20, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Actually sounds like they, the service, went with a 4500 when a 3500 is plenty big for 95% OF ems.  mUCH SMOOTHER EVEN W/O THE AIR BAGS.
> 
> We have a 4500 sucks, way to rough. The 3500 smoothest ambulance I've been in besides maybe the old Cadillacs.



That sounds about right.  They suck majorly, but are quite roomy


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## medicdan (Aug 20, 2009)

WolfmanHarris said:


> Also, ditch the squad bench entirely. Captain's chairs that can swivel into the safer front or rear facing and have a side impact zone that isn't your back are the way to go.



I have started to see those implemented. A question, though. How do they safely transport a second patient, per KKK requirements?


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## medic417 (Aug 20, 2009)

So the point for Bossy is get a Chevy 3500 chassis or equal but no heavier or it will beat you to death.

You will love the patient compartments of Frazer.


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## dmc2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

WolfmanHarris said:


> Avoid these novelties. Not backed up by science and some are actually more dangerous in a crash. Go to www.objectivesafety.net and look at the ongoing work of Dr. Nadine Levick in term of ambulance safety. She was brought over as a consultant for my service last year and all our new rigs are getting a redesign based on her input.
> 
> Also, ditch the squad bench entirely. Captain's chairs that can swivel into the safer front or rear facing and have a side impact zone that isn't your back are the way to go.
> 
> ...



So the harnesses provide very little protection?  Makes sense.  

McCoy Miller came out with a side-loading concept which would theoretically eliminate the side facing positions by having the cot loaded perpendicular to the curb:
http://www.mccoymiller.com/products/sideload/sideload1.htm

Doesn't seem very practical for a number of reasons.


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## VCEMT (Aug 22, 2009)

No running boards, on some rigs.


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## Pudge40 (Aug 23, 2009)

Flight-LP said:


> Want cupholder? Go with Chevy, they have them up front, out of the way, but easy to access. Plus, they will hold a Sonic Route 44 soda with ease!
> 
> My biggest suggestion, get rid of the bench and replace it with 2 angled seats with rotating capability and appropriate harnesses. The current standard bench serves no practical purpose as it is the most unsafe place to sit and the recent opinion against multiple patient transports. I never ride on the bench and will not allow anyone on my crew to do so.




You mean like these?


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## Pudge40 (Aug 23, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> I have started to see those implemented. A question, though. How do they safely transport a second patient, per KKK requirements?



The backs on the seat (at least the one at my service does) fold down. This creates a flat surface to put the board on. It still has belts like a bench seat for restraint of patient.


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## HokieEMT (Sep 2, 2009)

We placed a new unit in service back in December and suffice to say I love it and so does the rest of the company.

Its a 2009 Freightliner Chassis with a Horton Box and its a beast.  Im 6' and can stand with boots on in the patient compartment.  Some of the features I like on it that should be included in most units:
- A lockable mount for the monitor.  We use the LifePack12 and the mount works wonders.  When we had a reserve unit from our county we had to put it in the captains chair and belt it in.

- A garage door like door for the bag compartment.  This prevents doors getting the way of getting in and out of the unit using the side door.

-Within that compartment track lighting so you can see what your grabbing on those oh so wonderful 0230 calls.

- Air ride equipped unit so that when you open the back doors the a** of the unit sits down making it easier to load and unload the stretcher.  especially when you have a "heavy" patient.

- Cargo net instead of arm rest at the end of the bench seat.  Tis is just so you have a more comfortabl place to fall asleep on the way back from the aforementioned 0230 calls.

- Open area between front cab and patient compartment.  It makes talking with your driver much easier.  The reserve units have this 12"X12" cut out that you cant hear anything through.

- Main radio that has all the same frequencies as the portable.  Ive had to use the main radio to talk to the recieving hospital becuase the portable battery died half way through the consult.  Not cool, but it would not have been possible in our old unit because the main didnt have it programed.  Just the main dispatch channel and the different division channels.

- Ok it may look retarded or whatever you want to call it but Chevron Reflective Markings on the back.  We were the first in our county to get this done and let me tell you it definitely helps when we run 10-50s at night on any road especially I95.  Once headlights hit that reflective markings it lights up and is seen.

- ill secind the cupholders point.  it sucks riding back from a call having to hold it between your legs.

-finally, a functioning FM/AM radio. nothing beats some tunes on the way to a call or on the way back to the firehouse.


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## Dominion (Sep 2, 2009)

HokieEMT said:


> - Air ride equipped unit so that when you open the back doors the a** of the unit sits down making it easier to load and unload the stretcher.  especially when you have a "heavy" patient.



Wait a couple years.  The air ride systems are the biggest pieces of crap ever.  Every truck I've ever seen with it rides terrible in the back and is constantly breaking.  If you forget to flip the air ride switch once you risk destroying your chassis.



HokieEMT said:


> -finally, a functioning FM/AM radio. nothing beats some tunes on the way to a call or on the way back to the firehouse.



The units I used to work in awhile back had CD players with speakers in the back.  Was really nice


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## PapaBear434 (Sep 2, 2009)

Until I read this thread, I honestly didn't know this many people had side mount cots.  All of our trucks, no matter what station, have center load stretchers.  I thought they were the more common, and that side mounts were primarily for transport purposes.

Learn something new every day.


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## Dominion (Sep 2, 2009)

It's really just whatever the service can afford.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 3, 2009)

I once used a Stoner unit built in 1983... It was completely serviceable... and it could handle 4 patients. Lying flat. That, and it's V8 Big block GAS motor were about it's only redeeming qualities. Now let's clarify one minor point... The ONLY time I'd EVER consider putting 4 patients in that unit at one time would be for MCI events...

Worst thing Ford did was get rid of the 7.3L Powerstrokes... 

Center loading of the cot is wonderful... in units that have the room for them. If there's a "CPR" seat on the patients' right side, you're going to be in a unit generally large enough to comfortably use a center load mount. In the type II units I've been in, most of them don't have the floorspace to do a center loading mount. 

I'd have to second the comment about the airbag system... you must remember to inflate/deflate those bags at the appropriate time and they can also be the source of some very uncomfortable swaying of the box. They also will generally require more maintenance and repairs compared to a vehicle that doesn't have that system installed. 

Have 2 radios onboard... programmed identically. I generally prefer giving the report to the ED, but there are situations when my driver has to do it. Also, if one radio dies, you can use the other until you complete the call. Any portables should also be programmed the same as the onboard units.

Cupholders. Sized to fit actual cups...

Make sure that any oxygen cylinders can be changed out easily. If you have to open the bench seat to take it out... chances are you're going to have to wrestle with it to load and unload the tank.

Make sure that the flooring material goes up the walls a little ways... that way nasty little beasties can't hide in there... and make certain that you can (quite literally) hose the back of the ambulance out without water getting into _anything_. 

Avoid particle board... It's heavy, weak, and gives off fumes.


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## Sasha (Sep 3, 2009)

> Make sure that any oxygen cylinders can be changed out easily. If you have to open the bench seat to take it out... chances are you're going to have to wrestle with it to load and unload the tank.



Oh you bring up horrible memories of working in a Type II. I'd like the second this! Do not buy a truck with the oxygen under the bench seat. They're hard to check, hard to turn on, and hard to change out. I hated having to get on my hands and knees to check to see if the tank needed to be changed or even to turn it on. Often because of this they were left on throughout the shift, and sometiems until they had to be changed out. This is bad for the regulator and causes leaks.


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## akflightmedic (Sep 3, 2009)

Our O2 tanks are under the bench seat however there is a small compartment door where you reach through and turn it on OR you just slide the tank out as it is on a rail slider system and read the gauge or change it out that way.


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## Sasha (Sep 3, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> Our O2 tanks are under the bench seat however there is a small compartment door where you reach through and turn it on OR you just slide the tank out as it is on a rail slider system and read the gauge or change it out that way.



We had the small door, often they were turned the wrong way to read the darn gauge, so you either slid it out or opened the bench seat and pulled out the little trash can and sharps box and the thing it was sitting on to read it.

You COULD pull it out, but these were old trucks and pulling it out was kind of difficult. I prefer just the ones at the end of the bench seat.


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## TransportJockey (Sep 3, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Oh you bring up horrible memories of working in a Type II. I'd like the second this! Do not buy a truck with the oxygen under the bench seat. They're hard to check, hard to turn on, and hard to change out. I hated having to get on my hands and knees to check to see if the tank needed to be changed or even to turn it on. Often because of this they were left on throughout the shift, and sometiems until they had to be changed out. This is bad for the regulator and causes leaks.



Ugh we had one type II like that. Most of our units that my old service used were type IIs that had the O2 right by the side door standing up in a cabinet. Loved hat setup. 
And I wish I'd ever been in a bus that had a center mount gurney. All the rigs here in ABQ are side mount.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 3, 2009)

Most of the type II's I've been have had the cylinder mounted transverse... between the patient area and the cab. Loading and unloading that style was very easy. The type that we used that used the under bench method was actually a type III and there was no way to "torpedo" load the thing... you had to wrestle with it to change it out. The 1983 Stoner had the upright mount in a cabinet in the back corner. Interesting rig... she be old, but could run like a freaking scalded cat!


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## mycrofft (Sep 3, 2009)

*Akulahawk we're sharing a wavelength.*

How about offroad vehicles, sportsfans? Any HUMMER mods or such? How well do bigbox 4WD units do? (How much is training versus equipment?).


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## Hal9000 (Sep 3, 2009)

I've used the one like Akula mentions.  It was fins, but I often got green from changing the thing.  We have some Type IIIs that have it mounted on the mod behind the driver's area.  The best thing is that it is already vertical and has a hydraulic system to load and unload it.  Spoiled....


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## Akulahawk (Sep 3, 2009)

Hal9000 said:


> I've used the one like Akula mentions.  It was fins, but I often got green from changing the thing.  We have some Type IIIs that have it mounted on the mod behind the driver's area.  The best thing is that it is already vertical and has a hydraulic system to load and unload it.  Spoiled....


I generally prefer the vertical mount systems. We'd had two units that vertically mounted the cylinder in an exterior compartment or an easily accessible interior compartment. Those were mini-mods. Nice little rigs...

The one that we'd had to wrestle with to load under the bench seat also had a LOX system... which was VERY nice, when it worked.


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## firecoins (Sep 3, 2009)

I could ride potentially in 100 different rigs over the course of a week.  

I prefer Box trucks.  Need the space when on an ALS truck.  They drive better.  I prefer when there is a CPR seat on the pt's right side best but most rigs do not have that.  

I do IFT BLS shifts in van types. Hate them.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 3, 2009)

firecoins said:


> I could ride potentially in 100 different rigs over the course of a week.
> 
> *I prefer Box trucks.  Need the space when on an ALS truck*.  They drive better.  I prefer when there is a CPR seat on the pt's right side best but most rigs do not have that.
> 
> I do IFT BLS shifts in van types. Hate them.


I agree. 911 units (especially) should be this type, if for no other reason that you might have to stuff several providers in the vehicle... And that CPR seat is wonderful...


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## Dominion (Sep 3, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> I agree. 911 units (especially) should be this type, if for no other reason that you might have to stuff several providers in the vehicle... And that CPR seat is wonderful...



Agreed on the need for more room.  Vanbulances I feel are best for IFT but you could argue that even IFT needs the extra room a box with center load stretcher can afford.  I don't care what chasis the box sits on (commercial van, truck, super duty, etc) as long as the back is well laid out, has a smooth as possible ride, and has room to work.  However I know several 911 services that ride just vanbulances and they work out (people still complain about room but they do work)


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