# The whole acting off duty topic.



## emt seeking first job (Aug 21, 2010)

I feel now compelled to carry my pocket mask everywhere.

There are people who know I took an EMT class, who would expect me to do CPR, but sort of like the Seinfeld at the health club where Jerry and George did not want to do CPR, I would hesitate to put my mouth on say, my parents, sister, girlfriends father, pretty much any male, and many females.

But now like my wallet, I feel obligated to grab this face mask, and I am trying to go on a "pocket diet" , another Seinfeld refrence.

I am always calling 911 whenever I see anything needing a professional response, and if I am a stranger, and alone, I call 911. I did that as an LEO, my employer hinted they prefered that. The only time i got into it was when I was meeting someone to go to a bar, another LEO, and I arrived and he was subduing a guy assaulting EMS workers, (of all people)I cuffed one arm, walked him to the ground with verbal commands and pressure to the wrist, then cuffed the other arm, then sat him up and waited for the local cops.

Had I been alone, I would have just called 911. Really only in the middle of the wilderness or if no on duty response was within 5 minutes would I ever take further action. Generally, the local authorities discourage bystander instervention, even if trained but from somewhere else.

So anyway, This thread is sort of me thinking aloud...what are anyone's thoughts on this, the carry a face mask part ?


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## firecoins (Aug 21, 2010)

yeah, you carry a face maak. Nothing wrong with it. The problme becomes when you have your own AED.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 21, 2010)

you must be a mind reader...I sort of told myself I should get an AED once I start working, maybe just bring when spending time with friends and family, strangers if the scene is safe, it is part of CPR, and LEO's buy personal fire arms 'just in case"...

Could a pocket AED be made, like the implanted ones? Or maybe not, need to many amps to get through skin....?


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## Chimpie (Aug 21, 2010)

firecoins said:


> The problme becomes when you have your own AED.



I literally LOL'd at that.



emt seeking first job said:


> you must be a mind reader...I sort of told myself I should get an AED once I start working, maybe just bring when spending time with friends and family, strangers if the scene is safe, it is part of CPR, and LEO's buy personal fire arms 'just in case"...
> 
> Could a pocket AED be made, like the implanted ones? Or maybe not, need to many amps to get through skin....?



Are you carrying a hard cased pocket mask with you, or one that folds and is in your wallet or keychain?

LEO's carry to protect themselves and others from death.  Not to bring someone back from it.


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

firecoins said:


> yeah, you carry a face maak. Nothing wrong with it. The problme becomes when you have your own AED.



Don't get me started on that. We have a local first responder, you know the type... Personal vehicle with FF tag that has at least 4 star of life's on it, "Emergency Responder" on the back, and a bag full of OPA/NPA, collars, a KED (Yes, you heard me right, this dude has his own KED), and an AED he has some how saved up enough money to purchase between his time working with the volunteer fire department and changing the grease traps at McDonalds. 

I am just so thankful that the AED will only shock if necessary, otherwise this kat would be truly dangerous.


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## adamjh3 (Aug 21, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> you must be a mind reader...I sort of told myself I should get an AED once I start working, maybe just bring when spending time with friends and family, strangers if the scene is safe, it is part of CPR, and LEO's buy personal fire arms 'just in case"...
> 
> Could a pocket AED be made, like the implanted ones? Or maybe not, need to many amps to get through skin....?



No, no, no, no, no. That's just too far. 

LEO's carry off duty (and I believe everyone should) to protect themselves. Their job is inherently dangerous as I'm sure you know, some ****** that you took to jail recognizes you on the street and gets his hood-rats to mess you up, it's a very real risk. 

When you clock out at the end of your shift in EMS, you are done, the work doesn't follow you home. A cardiac patient isn't going to see you on the street and go "Hey, I know that guy! He's an EMT/Medic that took me to the hospital! I'll go have an MI in front of him, that'll teach him!" 

I understand that you want to be able to do everything you can for your family, but if someone's going to die, they're going to die. You have to get the "if I only had x" ideas out of your head. Everything you _should_ do to help off duty can be accomplished with your cell phone and a pair of gloves. The pocket mask - that I can understand, however, I've heard that when the new AHA guidlines come out they will advocate continuous chest compressions only for bystander CPR. And that is exactly what you are off-duty, a bystander trained in first-aid. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## 46Young (Aug 21, 2010)

A good many of us get excited after finishing EMT class and think that we're going to save the world. I had a fully stocked BLS bag in my trunk, and a pocket face mask. I thought that I'd find someone choking, in arrest in a supermarket or running track, needing C-spine in an MVA, etc.The feeling will pass. My bag collected dust, and the AHA just wants bystanders to do compressions only, anyway. Backboards and C-collars seem to do more harm than good.

I get enough excitement at work, and you'll probably feel the same when you do 911 at some point. I knew a medic that was trying to get his medical director to let him keep and use his own personal tube kit to save the world off duty. If that sound ridiculous, that's because it is. Posessing a personal AED and maybe O2 is really the same thing. It's like an off duty FF carrying a can of dry chem for car fires along with a married pair for forcible entry.

There were a few occasions where an off duty EMT or medic were onscene giving aid prior to our arrival. Unless you were doing CPR or bleeding control, you're just getting in the way of our assessment and treatment. I don't need a five minute, detailed novel on the pt's situation up to our arrival. Since you're a stranger, I'm just going to start my assessment from the top anyway.


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## Aidey (Aug 21, 2010)

I had one of those key chain pocket masks for a while, but they degrade pretty quickly. I figure that if I ever have to do CPR in public it will be compressions only unless the place I'm at has a kit with a mask in it.


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## Veneficus (Aug 21, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> LEO's carry off duty (and I believe everyone should) to protect themselves. Their job is inherently dangerous as I'm sure you know, some ****** that you took to jail recognizes you on the street and gets his hood-rats to mess you up, it's a very real risk.
> 
> When you clock out at the end of your shift in EMS, you are done, the work doesn't follow you home. A cardiac patient isn't going to see you on the street and go "Hey, I know that guy! He's an EMT/Medic that took me to the hospital! I'll go have an MI in front of him, that'll teach him!".



I don't advocate being the ricky rescue type. (read whacker)


But I would like to point out I have been stalked by former patients and know a handful people personally who had relatives/friends of patients show up at their house to make known that they didn't think EMS did enough. One was even attacked as he was getting into his car.

Most ED staff in places I have been will cover their last names on the name badges because disgruntled patients have been known to open up the white pages from time to time.


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## fortsmithman (Aug 21, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> Most ED staff in places I have been will cover their last names on the name badges because disgruntled patients have been known to open up the white pages from time to time.




That is why one pays the telephone company to have their telephone number unpublished or silent.


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## JPINFV (Aug 21, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> you must be a mind reader...I sort of told myself I should get an AED once I start working, maybe just bring when spending time with friends and family, strangers if the scene is safe, it is part of CPR, and LEO's buy personal fire arms 'just in case"...



Differences between a firearm and an AED.

I can break down and clean my firearm. I can't open up the casing on an AED and not void the warranty. 

Unlike AED pads, my firearm and the accompanying ammunition does not expire. 

I can trouble shoot my firearm if it stops working. Short of replacing batteries, the only thing I can do with an AED is contact the company to find someone authorized to maintain it. 

You can pickup a decent firearm for a few hundred dollars. The cheapest AED is over a thousand. 

I have never needed an AED. I shoot 2 rounds of trap with my shotgun weekly. 

Neither an AED nor a firearm does any good sitting in your closet (with the firearm unloaded and locked of course. Safety first) while you're out and about.


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

This is my AED, there are many others like it, but this one is mine.

...srry couldn't resist.


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## Veneficus (Aug 21, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> That is why one pays the telephone company to have their telephone number unpublished or silent.



yea but it doesn't stop the _fine, upstanding, contributors to society _ (sarcasm) from following you home because they have nothing else to do.


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## JPINFV (Aug 21, 2010)

medicRob said:


> This is my AED, there are many others like it, but this one is mine.
> 
> ...srry couldn't resist.



You can pull my AED from my cold dead hands? [Yes... say it like a question. It's more fun that way...]


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> yea but it doesn't stop the _fine, upstanding, contributors to society _ (sarcasm) from following you home because they have nothing else to do.



Also, think about all the new technologies that make the world smaller. Twitter, Facebook, and Myspace are a stalker's wet dream. Not to mention services like intelius.us that do a pretty good job at tracking an individual based on utility bills for a nominal fee. Moreover, if you are a resident of the United States, chances are your state has a license lookup page that shows your first and last name and the town you live in which is just enough data to do an intelius search.


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## JPINFV (Aug 21, 2010)

So I just did an Intelius free search and it's funny because I have 4 different entries, 2 of which have the wrong age and none of them actually linking together the fact that I'm the same person. Ironically enought, it has one of the two addresses from when I lived in Massachuetts for 2 years, but not the one where I was the name on the utility bills.


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> So I just did an Intelius free search and it's funny because I have 4 different entries, 2 of which have the wrong age and none of them actually linking together the fact that I'm the same person. Ironically enought, it has one of the two addresses from when I lived in Massachuetts for 2 years, but not the one where I was the name on the utility bills.



Purchase one.


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## JPINFV (Aug 21, 2010)

...and give them more information as well as money? Hell no. 

I also enjoy how it includes both my first name and my middle name when declaring me a relative to my parents.


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> ...and give them more information as well as money? Hell no.
> 
> I also enjoy how it includes both my first name and my middle name when declaring me a relative to my parents.



Fine then, give me your money and I'll tell you who you are.


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## JPINFV (Aug 21, 2010)

I know exactly who I am, thank you very much.


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## MrBrown (Aug 21, 2010)

We had a discussion about this a few years ago here.  Officers were putting stickers and bits of tape over thier family name on name plates and the Service said it looked unprofessional.

Nobody when asked could specify a time when they had anything untoward happen because the patient or family knew thier first and last name.

The NZ Health and Disability Code states you must supply (upon request) your first and family name and title (eg Paramedic, Intensive Care Paramedic) to those you are treating or thier family.

Since 2008 the service has given people the option to only have thier first name primted on name plates but I have my full name on mine however my new one will only have my first name.


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## firecoins (Aug 21, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> you must be a mind reader.......?



Oddly I read palms and Tarot cards.  Good enough?


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## adamjh3 (Aug 21, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> I don't advocate being the ricky rescue type. (read whacker)
> 
> 
> But I would like to point out I have been stalked by former patients and know a handful people personally who had relatives/friends of patients show up at their house to make known that they didn't think EMS did enough. One was even attacked as he was getting into his car.
> ...



Which is where my "I think everyone should (carry)" comes in. 

A gun is something more or less associated with LE, an AED is something more or less associated with EMS. By no means are either exclusive to each profession, but a fair comparision.

 I was not stating there is no chance that a disgruntled patient will follow you home, more that a disgruntled patient will not follow you home and put you in a position where you'll have to use your AED on them.


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## Aidey (Aug 21, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> We had a discussion about this a few years ago here.  Officers were putting stickers and bits of tape over thier family name on name plates and the Service said it looked unprofessional.
> 
> Nobody when asked could specify a time when they had anything untoward happen because the patient or family knew thier first and last name.



I've seen people do that to their hospital IDs, and on hospital discharge papers the nurses are identified by their initials only. So at the bottom it says "Your care was provided today by Dr. Smith, ABC, and DEF". I have heard from nurses at a couple of the hospitals that they have had to have security escort them to their cars due to threats and called police for other on campus issues. I haven't heard of anyone being followed to their home, but I wouldn't be shocked either. 

Most of my co-workers cover up their full names. Our supervisors are ok with it, but instead of tape they will print you off a label from the label maker. You can tell it is a label, but it doesn't look unprofessional.


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

firecoins said:


> Oddly I read palms and Tarot cards.  Good enough?



Celtic cross spread, 12 lead... MI can be diagnosed many ways.


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## MrBrown (Aug 21, 2010)

Maybe we are safer down here who knows.  Having said that two people have been murdered at emergency departments here, like drive by type thing one dude was in his seventies man he must have rubbed somebody the wrong way!


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## medicRob (Aug 21, 2010)

Well, as some of you know from my posts in the health/fitness thread I hold a black belt first degree in Chinese Kenpo, and like to think of myself as able to handle myself. However, as a safe-guard I carry on me an expandable baton in a special holster that I can hide away. My supervisors are completely aware of it, and have no problem with it so long as it is not visible to patients. 


TCA 39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.

(8) By a person possessing a club/baton who holds a valid state security officer/guard registration card as a private security officer/guard, issued by the commissioner, and who also has certification that such officer has had training in the use of club/baton which is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs/batons; 

The concealment was the only issue I faced. Therefore, I brought it before the appropriate managers and campus police and they said they have no problem with it so long as it is never used in the hospital itself, which is fine by me as the reason I have it is mainly for the parking garage, etc.

However, batons do not protect against guns. I try to be kind to every patient I encounter, and I have had some bad situations but never anything leading up to direct physical violence, thank God.


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## Chimpie (Aug 22, 2010)

Let's try to keep this on topic please.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

*just to clarify*

I would have the mask to use when I am not alone, when people who know me would expect me to take action, and to use on aquaintances, friends and family.

The AED was just a thought as I often thought what of my father's heart stopped beating, I was there, where he lives EMS in at least a 30 minute wait...

I would not just whip it out for anyone. However, as I said, I am always notifying 911. In the NYC area, the response is generally around 5 minutes.

Wehn I walk to my vollie, I wear a plain shirt, then put the uniform shirt on once at the station.

I was discussing off duty response with the President. He always stops, identifies himself as EMS, and starts doing what he can until ems responds, and he is by no means a wacker.

In  this conversation, neither of us faulted or debated our positions.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

*although it was off-topic, the whole stalking thing :*

It is unlikely yet always a possibility.

To most people it will never be an issue, but you cant say why hide your name since it has not happened YET.......

That is like saying, you can leave your door unlocked, chances are nobody will try it, people do not go through my building trying doors.

Yet they could.

It is a sticky issue, no easy answers.

We live in a challenging era. No more Norman Rockwell.


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## Roger (Aug 22, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> No more Norman Rockwell.


Can anyone imagine what Norman Rockwell would be painting today? 
For some reason the author Stephen King comes to mind...sorry, off topic.

I am an EMT-Basic but not employed yet. With no real experience I would not 
intervene in any emergency unless there were no other choices open. 
I passed a MVA while working in western Mass. The MOI was severe but it 
looked like all passengers were sitting up and the police were there. No 
ambulance. I considered stopping but quickly slapped myself (mentally) and said 
what the hell do I know and moved on. But, I still wonder if I did the right thing. :unsure:


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## MizRizQuick (Aug 22, 2010)

I hate to even admit this because I've been in the medical field 17 years and an EMT for 10 of those...but...

I would NEVER put my mouth on another human being (with a few exceptions) to give CPR without some sort of shield. The exceptions are my IMMEDIATE family and babies. I could say I wouldn't even give CPR to a baby unprotected, but that'd probably be a lie.

I've played this in my head so many times because I don't carry a pocket face mask...and wondered what I would do in case I needed to give CPR. I can tell you, I'd be looking for ANYthing that would provide a safe barrier between Snaggletooth McGee and me. Ziploc bag, WalMart bag, my own shirt, a sock monkey...ANYthing. I shudder to think what some people have in/on their mouths. Yick. 

It's hard to think when you're in a code situation, but I've never had a problem keeping my safety first. 

I know this makes me sound horrible...but seriously, if I'm sick, how can I take care of other sick people?


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

Roger said:


> Can anyone imagine what Norman Rockwell would be painting today?
> For some reason the author Stephen King comes to mind...sorry, off topic.
> 
> I am an EMT-Basic but not employed yet. With no real experience I would not
> ...



If the police were already there, you did the right thing.

If they were not there, the right thing would be to call 911.

My scenario is I am at , lets say a church function, and someone stops breathing, and everyone points at me, knowing i completed the EMT class, expecting some CPR....so I am forced to carry the mask with me.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

MizRizQuick said:


> I hate to even admit this because I've been in the medical field 17 years and an EMT for 10 of those...but...
> 
> I would NEVER put my mouth on another human being (with a few exceptions) to give CPR without some sort of shield. The exceptions are my IMMEDIATE family and babies. I could say I wouldn't even give CPR to a baby unprotected, but that'd probably be a lie.
> 
> ...



I am admitting this here as I am on this forum anonymously.

I just dont want to put my mouth on someone unless they are someone I am already kissing. Hence, I am burdened to carry the pocket mask with me. It came with the class, I could get one of those flat ones, but I think the pocket mask in the case is more effective (better seal) to ventilate someone.

I trade off the pain of carrying it around with knowing I can rescue breathe without hesitation.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

Roger said:


> Can anyone imagine what Norman Rockwell would be painting today?
> For some reason the author Stephen King comes to mind...sorry, off topic.
> 
> I am an EMT-Basic but not employed yet. With no real experience I would not
> ...




I repeat, fellow EMT with certificate but no experience, you did the right thing.

The police were there. 

My scenario in this thread was about rescue breathing, the hassle of carrying a pocket mask, versus, my hesitation to go mouth to mouth.


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## Chimpie (Aug 22, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> My scenario is I am at , lets say a church function, and someone stops breathing, and everyone points at me, knowing i completed the EMT class, expecting some CPR....so I am forced to carry the mask with me.



No you're not.  You can do compressions only until EMS arrives, if you so choose to.  You also have the right to do nothing since you're not on duty.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> So I just did an Intelius free search and it's funny because I have 4 different entries, 2 of which have the wrong age and none of them actually linking together the fact that I'm the same person. Ironically enought, it has one of the two addresses from when I lived in Massachuetts for 2 years, but not the one where I was the name on the utility bills.



Intellius mixes people up with similar names/addresses. It is not a direct source.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

Aidey said:


> I had one of those key chain pocket masks for a while, but they degrade pretty quickly. I figure that if I ever have to do CPR in public it will be compressions only unless the place I'm at has a kit with a mask in it.




I am just compelled to carry the pocket mask, as I said, not for strnagers, but for people that know me, know I took the class, but I would not want to put my mouth on.


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## abckidsmom (Aug 22, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> I am admitting this here as I am on this forum anonymously.
> 
> I just dont want to put my mouth on someone unless they are someone I am already kissing. Hence, I am burdened to carry the pocket mask with me. It came with the class, I could get one of those flat ones, but I think the pocket mask in the case is more effective (better seal) to ventilate someone.
> 
> I trade off the pain of carrying it around with knowing I can rescue breathe without hesitation.



And there are plenty of people who I would kiss but would not so much like their vomit in my mouth.   I get this, and am extremely thankful for the benefit of compressions-only CPR.  And I have an ambu bag in the car.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 22, 2010)

Chimpie said:


> No you're not.  You can do compressions only until EMS arrives, if you so choose to.  You also have the right to do nothing since you're not on duty.




In a public area, where nobody knows me, YES, but in a group , like church, people know me, no....


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## Veneficus (Aug 22, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> In a public area, where nobody knows me, YES, but in a group , like church, people know me, no....



yet another reason I don't go to church


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## firecoins (Aug 22, 2010)

medicRob said:


> Celtic cross spread, 12 lead... MI can be diagnosed many ways.



I see several people standing over you in blue gowns. You will get a very expensive bracelet. Remember....open you heart!


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## medicRob (Aug 22, 2010)

firecoins said:


> I see several people standing over you in blue gowns. You will get a very expensive bracelet. Remember....open you heart!



I just literally lol'd... Open your heart, ha ha!


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## MrBrown (Aug 22, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> yet another reason I don't go to church



... if I go to church it makes it too easy for God to find me and strike me down for sinning.  

Not that I sin very often but still man you know it'd be like smoking in the Principals office


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## Aidey (Aug 22, 2010)

You can certainly do compressions only CPR. Who on earth is going to know the difference? If any one asks you just explain that without your EMT equipment that is how you are supposed to do CPR. Which is true, since that is how they are teaching lay person CPR, and at that point in time you are a lay person. 

Have you looked at most face masks? I wouldn't trust those things for one second to protect me if the pt truly vomits.


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## Sasha (Aug 23, 2010)

> I would hesitate to put my mouth on say, my parents, sister, girlfriends father, pretty much *any male*, and many females.



If you're seeing doing mouth to mouth to be more icky on a male then it is on a female, you are viewing it in an immature and sexual manner and are not prepared to be an EMT.


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## Sasha (Aug 23, 2010)

Oooh so many topics on this thread.

My name tag is flipped over, so my name, picture, and crew number are hidden. I decorated the back with pretty, seasonally appropriate stickers (I'm going to be scraping off the butterflies and putting pumpkins on soon.) I don't like people knowing who I am, it's much easier when you run into the "I don't like you! I'm going to call and complain, what's your name!?!" "Susan... my name is Susan.." but also because I don't want said po'd patient to be able to go look up my name in the phone book and show up on my door step.

As for mouth to mouth vs pocket mask, guidelines are moving towards compression only CPR, which negates the need for a pocket mask, so really, you're not burdened with anything.

Personally, I would only do mouth to mouth on my fiance, and my little nephew. Not any other baby, either. Babies can have ickies too.


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## Melclin (Aug 23, 2010)

Sasha said:


> If you're seeing doing mouth to mouth to be more icky on a male then it is on a female, you are viewing it in an immature and sexual manner and are not prepared to be an EMT.



He probably just doesn't realise how different that situation is to just putting your mouth on someone who's sleeping. 

emt, compressions only CPR is the answer mate. Besides, something like 76% of arrests occur in the home, minus the benefit of a keen young EMT walking past. Odds are it'll never happen. If it does, compressions only is probably more likely to bring about a good outcome. 

Any situation in which you'd NEED vents only seems even more rare. If you wanna carry your pocket mask that's your thing, but mate, I guarantee you, in the unlikely event you ever need it, it'll be in your back pack 600 metres down the beach, or in your car, out in the lot.  

Key chain masks if anything. I got mine free, and when it wears out and falls off, I'm not replacing it. Compressions only all the way. B)


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## firetender (Aug 23, 2010)

All this talk of _what would you do if_ and _what could you use when_ and actually _anticipating _an event that would prompt you _to act_ and being oh so _clear _about when _you wouldn't_ is fun, but limited.

Because who would really know for sure what they would do until they are actually in the situation where the choice must be made? Maybe more to the point; is there anyone here who would be _*casual *_about making a choice based on the specific situation and person/people involved?

If the situation is anything near the line of life and death, at the very least, _*we have the obligation and responsibility to seriously weigh the gravity of not taking action against the potential consequences of intervening*_. But I think it must be at the time of the situation at hand. 

The one thing that we cannot escape is that we have been trained to _*ACT*_. _*No matter what we do -- and that includes NOT taking action! -- it is a conscious choice being made by a professional trained to intervene in times of emergency.*_

In the end, it boils down to being able to live with the choice you make.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 23, 2010)

*since this had morphed into a stalking thread....*



Sasha said:


> Oooh so many topics on this thread.
> 
> My name tag is flipped over, so my name, picture, and crew number are hidden. I decorated the back with pretty, seasonally appropriate stickers (I'm going to be scraping off the butterflies and putting pumpkins on soon.) I don't like people knowing who I am, it's much easier when you run into the "I don't like you! I'm going to call and complain, what's your name!?!" "Susan... my name is Susan.." but also because I don't want said po'd patient to be able to go look up my name in the phone book and show up on my door step.
> 
> .



Has anyone ever actually showed up at your doorstep ?

You could be a real estate agent, a hair dresser, etc, and someone could do that.

A determined person could find your name and you. It does happen, however, most agencies are not going to allow you to hide your name. Particularly if a lawsuit is involved. It will come out. 

That is a risk we all take by stepping out the door.

EMS personnel also face a more likely risk of injury or death in a vehicle crash, yet, we cant refuse to ride in the ambulance....


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## Aidey (Aug 23, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> A determined person could find your name and you. It does happen, however, most agencies are not going to allow you to hide your name. Particularly if a lawsuit is involved. It will come out.
> 
> That is a risk we all take by stepping out the door.
> 
> EMS personnel also face a more likely risk of injury or death in a vehicle crash, yet, we cant refuse to ride in the ambulance....



And there are ways to minimize the risk, Like not having your last name on display. Did you miss my post where I said that our _*management*_ assists in altering our name tags? A lot of people that I see with name tags on at nursing homes, doctor's offices/clinics etc have tags with their first name only, or first name and last initial. 

There is a big difference between being sued for something and having some tweaker track you down because they are pissed you wouldn't give them drugs.


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## reaper (Aug 23, 2010)

Aidey,

 There has to be Field experience to learn this.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 23, 2010)

Aidey said:


> And there are ways to minimize the risk, Like not having your last name on display. Did you miss my post where I said that our _*management*_ assists in altering our name tags? A lot of people that I see with name tags on at nursing homes, doctor's offices/clinics etc have tags with their first name only, or first name and last initial.
> 
> There is a big difference between being sued for something and having some tweaker track you down because they are pissed you wouldn't give them drugs.



I suppose you should go with whatever your employer does.

I have seen places with last name only. And those people refuse to give out their first names.

My first and last name are common. 

My first position out of college was doing insurance claims, next was an LEO, I got more threats from the first one.

I phased out my middle initial. I have been getting my mail at a private mail box. I am not on any social newtworking website. My longtime friends and family, they have my email and contact me throught that.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 23, 2010)

Aidey said:


> And there are ways to minimize the risk, Like not having your last name on display. Did you miss my post where I said that our _*management*_ assists in altering our name tags? A lot of people that I see with name tags on at nursing homes, doctor's offices/clinics etc have tags with their first name only, or first name and last initial.
> 
> There is a big difference between being sued for something and having some tweaker track you down because they are pissed you wouldn't give them drugs.




And I dont think most 'tweakers' would have the ability to track someone down, or the consistint mood to want to do it.

The scenario I could imagine was a family memeber stewing over the death of a loved one, and zeroing in on the ambulance crew.

A quick search of google, > emt stalked < comes back sad to say with emts stalking other people, in one case a medic....

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-16...uY29tL25ld3MvMjAwOC8xMTA3L25ld3MvMDI1Lmh0bWw=

Not to say we should not take precautions, however, as I said, we are at a more greater risk of injury or death from a vehicle crash, many preventable had the ems driver followed EVOC driving standards.....(second hi-jack for this thread)

I really wish nobody in EMS would ever be confronted by a patient or family ever.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 23, 2010)

Aidey said:


> You can certainly do compressions only CPR. Who on earth is going to know the difference? If any one asks you just explain that without your EMT equipment that is how you are supposed to do CPR. Which is true, since that is how they are teaching lay person CPR, and at that point in time you are a lay person.
> 
> Have you looked at most face masks? I wouldn't trust those things for one second to protect me if the pt truly vomits.



The one that came with my class is substantial.

Again, my personal policy: carry my mask when I step out of my apartment, always call 911 first, if I am with a group of people I know, whip out mask and rescue breathe.

If I am just passing by, and it is all strangers, I will make a case by case decesion based on multiple factors as to if I will perform CPR and the type of CPR I will do.

Everyone else on the planet is entitled to his or her own policy.

I thank everyone for sharing their thoughts.


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## Sasha (Aug 23, 2010)

> however, most agencies are not going to allow you to hide your name.



And you speak from all your on the job experience, right? My supervisor complimented me on how I wear my name tag, and my partners started to do it, too.

I've never been stalked, I did have a psych patient who wanted to have sex with me, asked for my phone number, gave me his, wanted to have babies with me. Begged and cried. That's not someone who I'd want to have my full name for when he got off his 72 hour hold.


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## Sasha (Aug 23, 2010)

> Again, my personal policy: carry my mask when I step out of my apartment, always call 911 first, if I am with a group of people I know, whip out mask and rescue breathe.



Compression only CPR is being shown to be more effective, don't you want the very best for someone you know?


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## Aidey (Aug 23, 2010)

Tweaker =/= idiot without resources. 




reaper said:


> Aidey,
> 
> There has to be Field experience to learn this.



I second this.


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## Sasha (Aug 23, 2010)

reaper said:


> Aidey,
> 
> There has to be Field experience to learn this.



Don't you know, they teach you everything you need to know in EMT school, the learning stops there.


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## Aidey (Aug 23, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Compression only CPR is being shown to be more effective, don't you want the very best for someone you know?



The AHA is already discussing going to 50:2. In fact, when I interned a few years ago the agency I was interning with was running a trial of 50:2 for them. There was another agency doing a 100:2 trial (I can't remember where though).


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## mcdonl (Aug 23, 2010)

> I am always calling 911 whenever I see anything needing a professional response



Talk about travelling in different circles! I have never called 911!


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## thatJeffguy (Aug 23, 2010)

For everyone that's "hiding" their name badge/tape... does your hospital include the PCR in the patients chart?  Doesn't that have the name of the responding personnel?

I'm not too worried about it.  I carry a sidearm everywhere I'm legally allowed which, in the fine free state of Pennsylvania, is damn near everywhere.

Also, I've mentioned this in a few threads but no one has given their thoughts...

If I've an alleged "duty to respond/act", aren't I bound by protocols?  If so, my first protocol is "SCENE SAFETY" and my second is "BSI".  If I drive by a traffic accident with no PD on scene, it's because it's unsafe.  Stopping could be considered to be a violation of protocol.  If I don't want to touch a patient because Ive no mask or gloves, I'm not abandoning or withholding care, I'm following my protocols.


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## Aidey (Aug 23, 2010)

thatJeffguy said:


> For everyone that's "hiding" their name badge/tape... does your hospital include the PCR in the patients chart?  Doesn't that have the name of the responding personnel?




Yes and no. Patients also can't just grab their chart off of the counter, they have to put in a written request for it. Same as if they want their PCR straight from us.


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## thatJeffguy (Aug 23, 2010)

Aidey said:


> Yes and no. Patients also can't just grab their chart off of the counter, they have to put in a written request for it. Same as if they want their PCR straight from us.



I wasn't familiar with the procedure.  It seems that a patient, or their family, can easily find out who you are with minimal effort.


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## JPINFV (Aug 23, 2010)

Aidey said:


> Yes and no. Patients also can't just grab their chart off of the counter, they have to put in a written request for it. Same as if they want their PCR straight from us.



Procedure and practice might be too different things though. 15 years ago when my Mom was in the hospital, my Dad had essentially complete access to the chart, to the point of the chief of staff telling the RN that it was ok.


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## Hal9000 (Aug 23, 2010)

Recently, I was traveling on a rural road, approximately 600 miles from the nearest Level I trauma center.  I happened to come upon something...a truck with its hazards on by a curve in the road.  Since I didn't know what was up ahead, I slowed down, and then I saw a biker who was doing poorly.  I stopped, and one of the three bystanders said that the biker had wrecked, but that a relative, who was a nurse, was with him.  They asked if I could help.  I politely declined.*  If no one else had been around, I would have at least comforted the poor sod while dialing 9-1-1.  

In urban areas, I don't think there is much benefit in stopping for something of that nature, besides screaming that one is important. In some places I travel, it can be 6-12 hours before someone else notices an ill/injured person, so calling 9-1-1 can be important. That said, it's all about proper judgment.  I remember a physician on a car scene that looked at an EMT who asked him if he was going to do something, and he said, "What do you want me to do, bring him a hospital?"  It was amusing. 


*Noting, of course, that I'd left my LSB, IVs, and portable X-ray at home.


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## MylesC (Aug 23, 2010)

medicRob said:


> Don't get me started on that. We have a local first responder, you know the type... Personal vehicle with FF tag that has at least 4 star of life's on it, "Emergency Responder" on the back, and a bag full of OPA/NPA, collars, a KED (Yes, you heard me right, this dude has his own KED), and an AED he has some how saved up enough money to purchase between his time working with the volunteer fire department and changing the grease traps at McDonalds.
> 
> I am just so thankful that the AED will only shock if necessary, otherwise this kat would be truly dangerous.


This is too much! Thank you for posting this. I know this guy "mikey" who fits this profile all too well. He did an EMT class and never even certified. Hes all super gun-hoe about FF in the same way. Stickers and shirts galore. Its totally douche-y, but to each their own I guess. Most of my friends that are medics barely even have a pocket mask in their car.


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## angels.girl84 (Aug 24, 2010)

*reminds me of a guy in our EMT class that would wear EMT shirts to class lol wonder if he passed the nremt! *



MylesC said:


> This is too much! Thank you for posting this. I know this guy "mikey" who fits this profile all too well. He did an EMT class and never even certified. Hes all super gun-hoe about FF in the same way. Stickers and shirts galore. Its totally douche-y, but to each their own I guess. Most of my friends that are medics barely even have a pocket mask in their car.


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## Paladin78 (Aug 24, 2010)

medicRob said:


> Don't get me started on that. We have a local first responder, you know the type... Personal vehicle with FF tag that has at least 4 star of life's on it, "Emergency Responder" on the back, and a bag full of OPA/NPA, collars, a KED (Yes, you heard me right, this dude has his own KED), and an AED he has some how saved up enough money to purchase between his time working with the volunteer fire department and changing the grease traps at McDonalds.
> 
> I am just so thankful that the AED will only shock if necessary, otherwise this kat would be truly dangerous.



I LOL'd


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## Archymomma (Aug 24, 2010)

On duty we are required to have on our person one of those face shields in the foil package. That is a reg from the hospital - all hospital personnel are required. It hangs behind my ID tag, so it is sitting in my purse when I'm off duty. That doesn't mean, however, that I would pull it out to use. If someone collapsed in front of me and CPR was needed I would do compressions only until a crew got there to take over. I honestly don't care if I'm in church or at a family gathering; the only people who will get mouth-to-mouth from me are my kids or my friend’s kids. I don't even think I'd m-to-m on my husband. 

Oh and our ID tags have only our first name, a photo, our position title and the hospital’s logo. Yes our full name goes on our reports and since we are based out of a small town if someone wanted to find us it wouldn't be hard. It basically just deters the immediate crazies...not the people who invest a little bit of time into finding out who you are.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Aug 24, 2010)

thatJeffguy said:


> If I've an alleged "duty to respond/act", aren't I bound by protocols?



If you are cleared by your medical director to work full scope off duty, then you are bound by protocols. If you have no duty to act, and are acting under GS laws, you are generally only bound by your scope rather than your protocols. I would think those would generally end up being the same thing, but since you aren't working under your services insurance when responding off duty, things like scene safety would be your choice.


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## Sasha (Aug 24, 2010)

> On duty we are required to have on our person one of those face shields in the foil package.



Yeah those are really gonna protect you when the patient vomits in your mouth


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 24, 2010)

Archymomma said:


> Oh and our ID tags have only our first name, a photo, our position title and the hospital’s logo. Yes our full name goes on our reports and since we are based out of a small town if someone wanted to find us it wouldn't be hard. It basically just deters the immediate crazies...not the people who invest a little bit of time into finding out who you are.




In NYC, i have seen, most ems give out a # only on the street, to LEO, for the LEO's report, they generally write EMT # XYZ on scene...


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## Archymomma (Aug 24, 2010)

Sasha said:


> Yeah those are really gonna protect you when the patient vomits in your mouth



yah I know - gross. Which is why I would never think to pull it out off duty...


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## firetender (Aug 24, 2010)

*Let's Gross Out the Kiddies!*

You got me thinking and the truth is, I was using mouth to mouth in the field (when caught off guard) as late as around 1983...ten years into my EMS career. If I were to have been asked then how often I got vomit in my mouth I would have said once or twice; and only when I missed the obvious warning signs. 

To be a bit more accurate, it would unfold something like all of a sudden, there we were, witnessing an arrest. While one grabs the equipment, the other "mugs" the patient for the first three breaths and begins compressions according to the protocol of the time. By then, we'd have access to Ambus, etc. and get on with it protected.


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## slb862 (Aug 25, 2010)

*All you ever need in EMS...*

I had a doctor tell me the only thing/s you need to "save" a life...is a "buck knife and duct tape"  LOL.     I loved it!!


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## MrBrown (Aug 25, 2010)

slb862 said:


> I had a doctor tell me the only thing/s you need to "save" a life...is a "buck knife and duct tape"  LOL.     I loved it!!



You forgot the whiskey or rope to bite down on in order to kill (tolerate) the pain and boiling oil to quaterise any wounds.


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