# Some cops!!!!!!



## Epi-do (Mar 26, 2007)

Disclaimer: I really do get along with the LEO's I work with. They are great guys, for the most part. They just are too lazy to do their job.







I swear, I think we got the two laziest cops on the force last night! We were dispatched for an unconscious person at one of the local trailer parks.

We show up, and this 20 yo girl is laying face down in the middle of the living room, refusing to talk to anyone. Husband and mom are both there. Husband is relatively helpful in gathering info. Mom is a major PITA. She repeatedly tells us that she is an NP at one of the local ERs and thinks she knows better than us how to do our job.

We roll the girl over to check her out better and all hell breaks loose. She begins kicking, hitting, spitting, biting, yelling, and screaming. All of it is completely melodramatic and over the top. She manages to spit on one of the engine guys, and scratches his arm with her nails. 

She admits to drinking, is underage, and wants us to believe she took a bunch of her medications. Only problem there is that they were filled just a couple days ago and have an appropriate number of pills in the bottle.

One of the guys runs out to the bus and gets the flexi-cuffs to put on her and the rest of the guys wrestle her to the cot, get her strapped down, and slap a NRB on her to prevent us from getting spit on.

And what are the cops doing during all of this? Not a damn thing!!!  They just stand there, don't lift a finger, and say there isn't anything they can do about the situation. Our officer tells them they need to at least ID her, but he wants her arrested for assaulting his guys. The cops refuse, say all they can charge her with is consumption by a minor, and they aren't going to do it. Officer tells them that he will contact his boss if they don't get their thumbs out of their asses and points out that she has assaulted one of his guys. The cops reply? "Well, she is delusional and doesn't know what she is doing, so our hands are tied." Bull:censored::censored::censored::censored:!!!! It was blatantly apparent to all of us that she knew exactly what she was doing. 

Eventually the cops start insisting that she has to go to the county hospital instead of the hospital of her choice and even follow us downtown. The only time they do this is if the patient is in custody.

We get to the hospital, head for lockup, thinking they had finally arrested her and are shocked to find out that we are wrong. As far as the cop was concerned, it was as "assist medical personel" run. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We head back to triage, and then to her bed. The patient promptly calls on of the hospital security/special deputies a socially unacceptable word for a black person and is promptly arrested by him. Back to detention we go.

It isn't until this point that our officer who had followed us in to the hospital decides that he might as well go ahead and do some paperwork, charging her with consumption by a minor, and a "few other things". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This girl tried to beat the crap out of us, one of our guys had to fill out exposure paperwork and go to occ health, three of us were spit on, I am not sure how many people she hit, kicked, bit, or clawed, and our local officer only finally did anything because the hospital was going to and he was forced to cover his ***!

How lazy can he be? Seriously, how long does it take to fill out the arrest paperwork? Nice to know you've got our back when we need you, bud!


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## EMTBandit (Mar 26, 2007)

All that I can say on this is wow... That was not only lazy but morally wrong on his part. If I saw someone I knew or even still, if it was my job to handle unruly people I would have helped out. Our cops here jump in if anything goes wrong and look out for us. Maybe with the exception of one or two who think they're better than everyone else because they have a badge and gun. Anyone who does what you described doesn't deserve to be a cop in my opinion, part of the job is for looking out for others and it doesn't seem he did anything there. So in short... you have a right to be mad in every respect and maybe even write a complaint to the department.


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## Epi-do (Mar 26, 2007)

For some reason, it seems that it is just the local city police that we have this problem with.  Sometimes we get metropolitan police, and they are great!  They never hesitate to jump in and help us out when we need it.  If only the locals had the same attitude.....


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## DT4EMS (Mar 26, 2007)

This can be a problem. 

First and foremost. If you fell unsafe............ back out. I would still pursue charges on the minor. Age doesn't make a difference when it comes to the law. The juvenile system still handles the crime. More often than not it is a training issue when it comes to an office not stepping up when EMS needs them to. 

If your patient didn't want to go with you and they didn't feel she needed to be taken into custody......... leave for your own safety. You can back that all day long.

Pretty much every state has a law where POLICE can place a person into custody for their own protection. If they didn't feel that was the case......dont' lose sleep and be freakin' careful while working in that jurisdiction.


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## firecoins (Mar 26, 2007)

DT4EMS said:


> This can be a problem.
> 
> First and foremost. If you fell unsafe............ back out. I would still pursue charges on the minor. Age doesn't make a difference when it comes to the law. The juvenile system still handles the crime. More often than not it is a training issue when it comes to an office not stepping up when EMS needs them to. .


I would disagree that its a training problem.  I know cops who purposely don't want to get involved in anything EMS if they don't have to and the are trained MFRs, EMTs and in some cases medics. Its not a training problem. Its an institutional problem. They want the paperwork.   

The above example seems weird too me because the cops were already there.  Most cops I know who avoid medical emergencies like the plague would love to arrest somebody.  Thats their bag.


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## mcvey7218 (Mar 26, 2007)

My husband is a cop and he is always more than willing to protect the Medics.  Seems like a problem within the department.


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## Epi-do (Mar 26, 2007)

DT4EMS said:


> If you fell unsafe............ back out. I would still pursue charges on the minor.



I was actually on the other side of the room, gathering what info I could from the husband.  As for her being a minor - yes, as far as the drinking goes, but she was 20, so prosecution would be in adult court.




> If your patient didn't want to go with you and they didn't feel she needed to be taken into custody......... leave for your own safety. You can back that all day long.



You are completely right on here.  Yes, we should have just left.  The only thing is, the family would have just kept calling us back until something was done.  Once we got her into the truck, I was up front driving.  There were three guys in back, and they thought they could handle the situation, so off we went.  This was one of the very few times I have ever driven emergent for a non-critical patient.  The thought was to just get her to the ER asap.



> Pretty much every state has a law where POLICE can place a person into custody for their own protection. If they didn't feel that was the case......dont' lose sleep and be freakin' careful while working in that jurisdiction.



That is what I was referring to when I said our officer wanted her to at the very least be ID'ed, if not arrested.  As for being careful in that particular jurisdiction, the part that sucks the worst about it is that these are the guys that we get on 90% of our calls.  Only a very small part of our district is covered by the metropolitan department.  



> Its an institutional problem. They want the paperwork.



I could only wish this was the problem, firecoins.  These guys don't even want to do the paperwork.

This isn't the first time we have had a problem with this particular department not wanting to step up and do what is expected of them.  It was, however, the most recent, and most eggregious incident that I have had with them.

In the last couple months, the police chief and deputy chief have been replaced.  Rather than promote from within the department, they brought in two guys from outside, so hopefully we will begin to see some changes around here soon.  Unfortunately, I know it will take time to change things, including the attitude of the guys working the street.  

While our fire department and EMS have the reputation of being some of the best in the area, our police department has got one of the worst reputations for being lazy, etc.


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## firecoins (Mar 26, 2007)

Epi-do said:


> I could only wish this was the problem, firecoins.  These guys don't even want to do the paperwork.
> 
> .



I am sorry that was a typo. I meant to say they don't want the paperwork.  The PD does not want paperwork.  

I had a cop the other day tell me that when he took calls with a major city police force, he would wait until EMS was on scene even on codes because he didn't want to work it.  It was definatly an insititutional thing.


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## Guardian (Mar 27, 2007)

A lot of cops around here have attitude problems, huge egos, and are fairly dumb (the same could be said of some fire and a few ems personnel too).  So yes, they can be a huge pain in the ***.  If we refused to treat a pt, they would have no problem raising holy hell so we need to do the same.  Do whatever you have to do to fix the problem.  This is unacceptable.

This sounds like a psych problem the cops should have handled or should have at least restrained the pt.  It's not our job to restrain psych pts.  Next time you are on scene and this happens, tell the cops that and stand up for yourself.


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## Recycled Words (Mar 27, 2007)

Our cops respond with us to all calls. If they can't make it and the scene appears unsafe, there's no way I'm going in. If I have an issue with a patient, I want a cop in the rig with me, not even following behind.


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## Jon (Mar 27, 2007)

Wow... Flexcuffs as restraint devices on the rig? Thats different.

This sounds like PD needed to be more proactive. In point of fact, if the patient can demonstrate that she wasn't of sound mind... then perhaps some of the charges would be dropped... but that isn't the LEO's choice, really.

The question that should be posed to those cops is "what if that subject had attacked YOU?"

I think you need to express your concerns with your EMS officer.... the LEO's put you in an unsafe situation, and with the extended transport time, took you out of service longer.... Your EMS chief should look into this.


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## Jon (Mar 27, 2007)

Recycled Words said:


> Our cops respond with us to all calls. If they can't make it and the scene appears unsafe, there's no way I'm going in. If I have an issue with a patient, I want a cop in the rig with me, not even following behind.


Not to knock you, but what makes a scene unsafe? The only scene I've ever done a "tactical retreat" from was one where there were 6+ LEO's already onscene. I found a cop or 2 and went back to my patient.


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## Epi-do (Mar 27, 2007)

Jon said:


> Wow... Flexcuffs as restraint devices on the rig? Thats different.



This goes back to the fact that we thougth she was being taken into custody.  We carry the flexcuffs for arested/ID'ed patients.  The only way we can transport someone in metal cuffs is if an officer rides in the ambulance with us, and most times they don't want to do it.  If we put the flexcuffs on, they can follow behind us in their black and white since we can cut the cuffs with EMS shears if we would need to remove them for some reason.  We aren't allowed to use the flexcuffs on patients that aren't in custody of the police.



Jon said:


> I think you need to express your concerns with your EMS officer.... the LEO's put you in an unsafe situation, and with the extended transport time, took you out of service longer.... Your EMS chief should look into this.



Our house captian was the officer on the engine, and he contacted the battalion chief regarding the situation.  Although I am sure the BC will contact the EMS chief to let him know of the incident, I doubt the EMS chief will actually act.  The BC, on the other hand, is also a pretty well-known political figure in the community and will most definately pick up a phone and give someone at the PD and earful about not watching out for his crew.

I go back into work tomorrow, and if I hear anymore about this I will be sure to let everyone know what has happened.


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## Recycled Words (Mar 27, 2007)

Jon said:


> Not to knock you, but what makes a scene unsafe? The only scene I've ever done a "tactical retreat" from was one where there were 6+ LEO's already onscene. I found a cop or 2 and went back to my patient.



Honestly, I don't think I could make that sort of generalization, it's a case-by-case thing, but I'm sure everyone has a sense of what calls pose potential threats. There are the general drug use or behavioral calls, fights, etc but also when I show up for call in a bad part of town or I get to the scene and I, personally, don't feel safe. As I said before, our cops show up to calls by default and they usually get there before we do, but if they don't and I have reason to suspect that there's an issue, I'll wait for them to show before going in.


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## Stevo (Mar 28, 2007)

perhaps the issue is in just what an ere _(emergency response employee, an osha term to desribe ems, fire & leo for those of you unfarmiliar with it)_ should be

imho, it's not much to ask an ere to know the basics of the other's job. In fact the best ere's i know out there have some sort of introductory course(s) under thier belts for what is not thier forte'

this thread poses a good argument for cross training imho

~S~


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## Epi-do (Mar 29, 2007)

Just thought I would give you all the update on what we found out regarding this girl.

She has been charged with minor in consumption and something similar to battery by bodily waste, although I am not sure exactly what the wording of the charge is (that statute deals only with law enforcement, but there is one for fire/ems workers as well).  The battery charge will have multiple counts.


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## jeepmedic (Mar 31, 2007)

Alot of the problem goes to Taxes and who will pay the bill. If they place the Pt. into custudy then the County/City/Town will have to pay the Hospital bill. If not then the Pt. pays the bill. Its a money thing. Atleast that is the problem here in Va. Overall it sucks. ( I miss the Sand Bags on the trucks)


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## TheDoll (Apr 2, 2007)

sweet jeebus, epido! i'm sorry to hear that you were treated this way by law enforcement. for some reason, i thought you were in lawrence. are you actually on the west side? for some reason this has the sound of the far west side to me, but i could be mistaken. well, i'm assuming you brought the patient to the wiz which means i was just above the ER in the burn unit! --not that that matters in this situation. anyway, i mostly just wanted to put in my 2 cents that you got pr*ck jobbed! that would make me steaming mad.


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## Epi-do (Apr 2, 2007)

Yes, Doll, you remember corectly.  I am in Lawrence.  I was talking with some of the guys last shift and the general consensus is that with the exception of 2 or 3 officers, this is pretty much the norm as far as what it is we can expect out of our local law enforcement.  It just really sucks!  I am so used to the cooperation we would get from county/IPD when I was working at Wishard or Wayne Township a few years ago.


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## TheDoll (Apr 2, 2007)

Epi-do said:


> Yes, Doll, you remember corectly.  I am in Lawrence.  I was talking with some of the guys last shift and the general consensus is that with the exception of 2 or 3 officers, this is pretty much the norm as far as what it is we can expect out of our local law enforcement.  It just really sucks!  I am so used to the cooperation we would get from county/IPD when I was working at Wishard or Wayne Township a few years ago.


well, it sounds like i must have a misconception about our west side officers (which is totally possible!:blush: ). also, i'm trying to picture mobile home parks in that area. granted, i don't know that area very well. either way, you shouldn't have been treated that way:wacko:


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