# Who is getting sued?



## reaper (Aug 18, 2010)

I have noticed for a long while now, that every new provider on here is affraid of getting sued over something.

Call me crazy, but in over 20 years in the industry, I have never been sued over pt care or have known anyone that has. I have worked in some of the worst sue happy states and still never had it happen.

So, Lets see some real cases of people here being sued. Not just a friend of a friend.

I think that providers are to caught up in this now a days. Provide the care that you should and there is not much to worry about.


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## CAOX3 (Aug 18, 2010)

Never been sued, never heard of anyone being sued.

Yeah I agree the fear of litigation seems to run rampant on this forum, to the point I believe it effects patient care.


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## Aidey (Aug 18, 2010)

I don't know of anyone who has been sued and had the case make it to court. 

I know of one out of court settlement, and I think the settlement happened before a law suit was filed.

I know of one person whom has had assault charges pressed, and another who is being investigated.

EDIT: I double checked, the assault charges were dropped, but the person did lose their license.


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## akflightmedic (Aug 18, 2010)

I would wager that the majority of lawsuits the average employee will never hear about it, even if they are the target of the suit.

The lawyer starts at the top with his intent to sue letter. The case is reviewed at those levels and stays at those levels, i.e top level HR, risk management, their own company lawyer, the owner of company, etc.

The case is reviewed and then settled. It is only those cases where settlements are not accepted that we hear about in the news.

I think the majority of EMS providers would be shocked at the actual number of lawsuits which occur yet are settled long before they even think about reaching a court of law especially with agencies which are self insured as a lot of county and city run departments are.

In short, no I do not expect people to hear about them or be aware of them, even through the rumor mill...simply because the process does not allow for that.

I had a coworker sued and I personally have been named in a lawsuit.


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## reaper (Aug 18, 2010)

AK,

 I am very well aware of the hundred of suites brought against systems every year. Some are settled, some are stopped dead and some are downright frivolous.

I am looking for a consensus of the people on this site. I am seeing more new providers coming on here with fear of suites drilled into their head. Should they know that the chance is there? Of course they should. But the push should be put on competent care, to keep for getting to that point.

Only 8 people have voted and 1 voted yes. If you do vote yes, please give a brief explanation of it. No details, just if you were actually named and what the outcome was.

Thanks guys and gals


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## akflightmedic (Aug 18, 2010)

I gave competent care, was still sued and my county still settled. Reason we settled...poor documentation on my part; will never happen again.

If anything, I think documentation is most important as "good, quality, competent, appropriate care" is meaningless without the report supporting this.

I agree, you do make a valid point. A lot of time is spent on "we do this to not be sued" or other words to similar extent. However, if we instead focused the training on not half assing care or how to write quality detailed reports, the odds of being sued are greatly diminished.


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## Aidey (Aug 18, 2010)

akflightmedic said:


> If anything, I think documentation is most important as "good, quality, competent, appropriate care" is meaningless without the report supporting this.



I agree with this 120%. 

I recently had one of those worst nightmare calls and my report recently made it to my doc and the region's head education person, both of whom are on the local QA committee. The education person pulled me aside and told me I had absolutely nothing to worry about from the county or state because of my documentation, and that she also thought I was very professional in my documentation because I presented things neutrally, and didn't throw the medics who screwed up under the bus.


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## abckidsmom (Aug 18, 2010)

We were sued for dropping a patient.  They settled out of court.  

It was the worst day of my life, dropping that contracted old lady.  Poor communication led to neither one of us having our hands on the stretcher.


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## medicRob (Aug 18, 2010)

If you think EMS has it bad with regard to law suits, try working in Obstetrics.


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## Phlipper (Aug 18, 2010)

medicRob said:


> If you think EMS has it bad with regard to law suits, try working in Obstetrics.



Well known, and the reason my wife is hesitant to move into OB, even though she loves babies.  Most people feel the high cost of medical care is partly due to the huge number of tests a doctor has to order to ensure every possible eventuality is covered, regardless of what the symptoms seem to say.  Gotta throw the kitchen sink at a stubbed toe or risk a suit.

As my friend says ... "After the civil war kicks off, all the lawyers are going up against the wall."


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## medicRob (Aug 18, 2010)

Phlipper said:


> Well known, and the reason my wife is hesitant to move into OB, even though she loves babies.  Most people feel the high cost of medical care is partly due to the huge number of tests a doctor has to order to ensure every possible eventuality is covered, regardless of what the symptoms seem to say.  Gotta throw the kitchen sink at a stubbed toe or risk a suit.
> 
> As my friend says ... "After the civil war kicks off, all the lawyers are going up against the wall."



One must also take into consideration the fact that if a child becomes handicapped as a result of a medical mistake, this is a life time issue. This child will need special equipment, access to specialists, etc for the rest of their life. Make no mistake about it, some of these medical malpractice attorneys know more about medicine than you and me combined. They eat, sleep, and breathe medical textbooks and statistics looking for slip ups to capitalize off of. The trauma center I work for prefers that employees keep their name off of forums due to incidents in the past on other sites. However, if you look at my location it is pretty easy to guess. I can walk out of the TICU (Trauma ICU) at any given time into the 10th floor waiting area and find you at least 1 malpractice attorney sitting like a vulture just waiting for someone to screw up.


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## 46Young (Aug 18, 2010)

akflightmedic said:


> I would wager that the majority of lawsuits the average employee will never hear about it, even if they are the target of the suit.



There was a suit brought about recently to an area FD that had a fatal fire, and one victim wasn't discovered on the primary search. Conditions were untenable anyway, so the victim wouldn't have survived regardless. The thing is, the suit named everyone employed by the dept as defendants, from FF's across all three shifts up to the fire chief.

Regarding EMS documentation, I've said it again and again to avoid declaring a diagnosis as a rationale for tx. You simply state your assessment findings, and then your treatments. I found this, that, and the other thing, and I treated for that as our protocol dictates. You would say that you treated according to the ACS protocol, asthma, beta blocker OD protocol, whatever. Jusy don't say that you diagnosed with an MI, asthma attack, BB OD, etc. Just your findings, and what protocol(s) you went with based on those findings, any OLMC direction, etc. "I found ST elevations in V2-4, crushing retrosternal cx pain, clear L/S, etc. I treated according to the ACS protocol".


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## abckidsmom (Aug 18, 2010)

46Young said:


> There was a suit brought about recently to an area FD that had a fatal fire, and one victim wasn't discovered on the primary search. Conditions were untenable anyway, so the victim wouldn't have survived regardless. The thing is, the suit named everyone employed by the dept as defendants, from FF's across all three shifts up to the fire chief.



Did they settle that one?  I agree that it's unreasonable for them to name everybody in the department in a lawsuit, but that was a perfect storm of a lawsuit.  



> Regarding EMS documentation, I've said it again and again to avoid declaring a diagnosis as a rationale for tx. You simply state your assessment findings, and then your treatments. I found this, that, and the other thing, and I treated for that as our protocol dictates. You would say that you treated according to the ACS protocol, asthma, beta blocker OD protocol, whatever. Jusy don't say that you diagnosed with an MI, asthma attack, BB OD, etc. Just your findings, and what protocol(s) you went with based on those findings, any OLMC direction, etc. "I found ST elevations in V2-4, crushing retrosternal cx pain, clear L/S, etc. I treated according to the ACS protocol".




I totally agree, but I then go on and document each step in the care as well.


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## 46Young (Aug 18, 2010)

abckidsmom said:


> Did they settle that one?  I agree that it's unreasonable for them to name everybody in the department in a lawsuit, but that was a perfect storm of a lawsuit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's settled, as far as I know. 

Documenting the ongoing assessment and reaction to interventions goes without saying, of course.


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## Prophet (Aug 18, 2010)

I have not yet personally been sued but I will say working as a casino emt, I have seen the casino get sued, and I have only been here 2 months.


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## firetender (Aug 18, 2010)

medicRob said:


> If you think EMS has it bad with regard to law suits, try working in Obstetrics.



I tried, but then they sued me!

(couldn't resist)

But I'm happy to see this thread, and I hope it runs long enough so we can really get an accurate idea. For myself, never sued.


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## johnrsemt (Aug 18, 2010)

Dept I used to work for settled out of court;  EMT-B should have lost certification.

  ~16 year old girl with severe lac on forehead,  visiting friends;  she was from out of state.  no family.  EMT let the 19 y/o boyfriend of the girls 17 y/o friend sign for the patient not to go to the hospital.     Police were willing to push that she go to ED.
  Lawyer sent letter,  dept asked how much they wanted.    no leg to stand on.


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## medicRob (Aug 18, 2010)

johnrsemt said:


> Dept I used to work for settled out of court;  EMT-B should have lost certification.
> 
> ~16 year old girl with severe lac on forehead,  visiting friends;  she was from out of state.  no family.  EMT let the 19 y/o boyfriend of the girls 17 y/o friend sign for the patient not to go to the hospital.     Police were willing to push that she go to ED.
> Lawyer sent letter,  dept asked how much they wanted.    no leg to stand on.



Did the girl live?


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## Foxbat (Aug 18, 2010)

firetender said:


> But I'm happy to see this thread, and I hope it runs long enough so we can really get an accurate idea.


I doubt we can get accurate data from an EMS forum, since many of the providers who were sued successfully could have to leave EMS...


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## Sassafras (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm not being sued, but a transport I did may go to court in the near future, from what I've heard from the patient.  Life at hospital wasn't fun but it means every care giver gets yanked in and I'm not looking forward to it.


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## Veneficus (Aug 18, 2010)

I have not yet been sued on or off duty, i figure it is just a matter of time, so it seems less intimidating to me than hoping it will never happen at all.


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