# Four-Loko



## rwik123 (Nov 12, 2010)

Hey Guys,

Havnt seen any threads on this subject so far so i thought I should start some dialogue on it. I am of the age where I am familiar with the partying lifestyle of upper high school and college kids, and the lack of judgment that goes on . A new drink has come out on the market named "FOURLOKO" with is labeled a malt drink that contains both caffeine (energy drink) and of course alcohol; so a stimulant and depressant in one... so the math in one 23.5 once Monster energy sized can, there are six cans of beer and five cups of coffee worth of caffeine, guanine ect and alcohol respectively. This beverage has caused overdoses in many college students and hospitalization due to blackouts and reactions. Now im not sure if it should become illegal because they ARE of legal age and adults and are capable of making their own decisions, but the idea of being able to be utterly destroyed on one can of beverage is concerning to say the least. Has anyone run into any cases of this and have any more information? I'll attach some news stories and reports about this subject

R 

http://www.roc4life.com/profiles/blogs/9-students-overdose-on

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/10/four_loko_blamed_for_overdose.php


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## TransportJockey (Nov 12, 2010)

I've drank it once or twice. I don't see it any different than vodka redbulls or jaeger bombs. Let stupid kids make stupid decisions and kill themselves. No harm done


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## Stephanie. (Nov 12, 2010)

I've drank it. Probably will NEVER drink it again. Not my type of poison.


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## MusicMedic (Nov 12, 2010)

it seems like both of those articles the College kids mixed drugs or different types of alcohol with the drink, which is IMHO Begging for trouble.. albeit the drink is strong, it still should be drinkable in a safe fashion if the person drinking is responsible.. its not the drinks fault if you are drinking in a very unsafe fashion by mixing other drugs or other alcoholic drinks..

College Kids will be College Kids.....


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## rwik123 (Nov 12, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> it seems like both of those articles the College kids mixed drugs or different types of alcohol with the drink, which is IMHO Begging for trouble.. albeit the drink is strong, it still should be drinkable in a safe fashion if the person drinking is responsible.. its not the drinks fault if you are drinking in a very unsafe fashion by mixing other drugs or other alcoholic drinks..
> 
> College Kids will be College Kids.....



yes, one of those stories was + drugs, but there are plenty stand alone stories.


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## MusicMedic (Nov 12, 2010)

rwik123 said:


> yes, one of those stories was + drugs, but there are plenty stand alone stories.



and the second one was Four Loko + Rum and Vodka= OD

which i dont know who in the right mind would do such a thing! 



if you can find some stand alone stories i can comment on those!


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## rwik123 (Nov 12, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> and the second one was Four Loko + Rum and Vodka= OD
> 
> which i dont know who in the right mind would do such a thing!
> 
> ...



yeah i believe you are correct on these cases, can't seem to find an example of the standalone cases

I just wanted to mention this cause its a big deal at least around me with all of the colleges in the boston area.. i guess some stores aren't even marketing it as an alcoholic beverage


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## Aidey (Nov 13, 2010)

I have run into people drinking this stuff way too often for it to be considered a non-issue. 

My partner and I were actually talking about this the other day, and it seems like about 1/2 of the people we pick up for alcohol related issues tell us they've been drinking Four Loko. I can think of several specific cases of alcohol overdose/poisoning (whatever you want to call it) that can be attributed to it. 

Honestly, if people want to mix it themselves, fine. But I do not think alcoholic high caffeine drinks should be available on the market.


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Nov 13, 2010)

worst. hangover. ever.

Regardless of the specific beverage, there will always be people who lack self control or don't think intelligently about things.  There's no banned ingredients, it is within current laws, people need to be smart about things.


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## yowzer (Nov 13, 2010)

I deal with a lot of homeless alcoholics, who love these drinks because they're cheap with high alcohol. Somebody who's chugged a couple of cans of joose or four loco in a short period of time is fun to have as a patient. Drunk and super wired all at once. 


I think Washington's ban of them is stupid, though. Idiot kids and addicts are going to get their buzz on regardless, one way or the other.


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## Fox800 (Nov 13, 2010)

Blame the object, instead of making people accountable for their actions.

Not any worse than drinking straight liquor.


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## Aidey (Nov 13, 2010)

You will never be able to convince me that the 200+mg of caffeine added to the 12% alcohol is the same as drinking straight liquor.


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## xshellyx (Nov 13, 2010)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> worst. hangover. ever.



AGREED! Yes this drink is seen as perfect for the college student, only $2.50 and you're pretty much drunk off of one can. However, it has many negative side effects, because of the mix of alcohol and caffeine. I also believe its become increasingly popular among the younger generations and even high schoolers, who don't know how to drink in moderation and know when to stop anyhow. If you're smart about it, it won't have any worse effects than that of liquor or other alcoholic drinks. But if you have chugging contests and such, of course Four Loko will have very harmful effects.


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## Pittsburgh77 (Nov 13, 2010)

Vodka and redbull is my perferred mixed drink.

I just tried Loko for the first time the other night and had 3.5 ontop of what I was drinking already. Yes, I was drunk but I wasn't at a black out stage or anything.

I find it sad that Michigan banned it, and many others are well on their way. Whatever happened to the right to free enterprise? I.M.O. I don't think you should limit someones ability to have a successful company because others are misusing the product.... if that was the case then all alcohol and tobacco should be banned at the state level.

"too much of a good thing, can be bad"


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## Aidey (Nov 13, 2010)

I think part of the problem is that the company is inviting misuse, look at the size, price, colors and flavors. Think about how the tobacco companies had to change their marketing and warning labels.

Currently there are NO restrictions on these drinks aside from what has been instituted at the state level. Because of those restrictions, there are a few variations of Four Loko out there, for example a 4% alcohol version instead of 12%. After the FDA finishes their investigation into the category of caffeinated energy drinks it wouldn't surprise me if they are allowed to stay on the market with restrictions on the ratio of alcohol to caffeine, new warning labels and changes to how they are marketed.


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## Bubz628 (Nov 13, 2010)

I've never tried it yet. But I know some people who have, and they say just one is enough. Now for the dumbasses who try to be hard and drink 3 or 4 at a time, that's just asking for trouble. h34r:


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## emtchick171 (Nov 13, 2010)

I actually drank some last night...and I must say it does give you a different feeling. I mean, of course I didn't do drugs with it...but I did have other types of alcohol along with the fourloko... didn't know it was causing all these problems until now.


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## DaniPhoenix (Nov 13, 2010)

we don't even have it in canada yet... a few vodka rockstar type things but they are only 7% and I have never noticed them to be particularly intense.. rather just a less fuzzy kind of buzz. which is I suppose the problem, but the night progresses as usual from there, 2 or 3 more regular drinks and I call it a night, so I guess I've never taken it to the limit with those. 

I wonder if all the problems in the states will lead to it being banned before it ever arrives?


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## Pittma (Nov 13, 2010)

Fox800 said:


> Blame the object, instead of making people accountable for their actions.
> 
> Not any worse than drinking straight liquor.



Well, I feel like alcohol-wise, yes, and I agree with the first point...but from a health standpoint...that amount of caffeine can NOT be good to have in your body. Plus, god knows what they put in it to make it taste less like gym shorts.


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## rwik123 (Nov 13, 2010)

Yes there are redbull and vodkas, but think about it; a redbull is about equal to one cup of decently strong coffee, and the vodka portion of the drink is DEF not equal to 6 odd beers. So to compare the portion of fourloko to a jagerbomb or vodka and redbull just isn't equivalent. It's the fact of young immature kids getting ahold of these dirt cheap beverages, having a reaction/blacking out and aspirating that's the scary thing.


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## Pittma (Nov 13, 2010)

rwik123 said:


> Yes there are redbull and vodkas, but think about it; a redbull is about equal to one cup of decently strong coffee, and the vodka portion of the drink is DEF not equal to 6 odd beers. So to compare the portion of fourloko to a jagerbomb or vodka and redbull just isn't equivalent. It's the fact of young immature kids getting ahold of these dirt cheap beverages, having a reaction/blacking out and aspirating that's the scary thing.



Rwik, you're from Boston, I don't know if you're a student or work around here, but around Northeastern, it's everywhere, the campus is freaking out about these things, and I know a lot of people who have horrible, terrible stories to tell about what happens when they are consumed- they aren't just your everyday vodka and redbull...they're about six and a half of those, and it comes in a pop-top that lets you chug it down like an energy drink.


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## rwik123 (Nov 13, 2010)

Pittma said:


> Rwik, you're from Boston, I don't know if you're a student or work around here, but around Northeastern, it's everywhere, the campus is freaking out about these things, and I know a lot of people who have horrible, terrible stories to tell about what happens when they are consumed- they aren't just your everyday vodka and redbull...they're about six and a half of those, and it comes in a pop-top that lets you chug it down like an energy drink.



yeah im a senior in HS but visit lots of my friends at colleges such a BC, Northeastern, umass ect and its def out there.. i totally agree with that its not your average drink.. plus the marketing is colorful and geared towards our age group. Plus think about it in the minds of students; why pay for the greater quantity of alcohol when you can buy one cheap can that can do that much damage. Plus the caffeine side of it, i dont know the whole chemistry behind it, but it cannot be good to have those depressants and stimulants mixed together in such great numbers


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## Cohn (Nov 14, 2010)

lol four loko is awesome. 

But I rather have my Jim Beam or a nice Dos Equis Lager


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## Cohn (Nov 14, 2010)

Pittma said:


> Rwik, you're from Boston, I don't know if you're a student or work around here, but around Northeastern, it's everywhere, the campus is freaking out about these things, and I know a lot of people who have horrible, terrible stories to tell about what happens when they are consumed- they aren't just your everyday vodka and redbull...they're about six and a half of those, and it comes in a pop-top that lets you chug it down like an energy drink.



woah six and a half? how the hell you get those numbers??? BS


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## Aidey (Nov 14, 2010)

Six and a 1/2 may be a big of an exaggeration, but the higher concentration Four Loko is 23.5 oz of 12% alcohol along with approximately the caffeine of 1 to 5 cups of coffee (the company hasn't released an actual number, and the no one can seem to agree). So that is about 3oz of alcohol with 100-200mg of caffeine (depending on the source, since "a cup of coffee" isn't a standard unit of measurement).


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## Pittma (Nov 14, 2010)

Cohn said:


> woah six and a half? how the hell you get those numbers??? BS



I believe it was in the improper bostonian, let me do some digging to find the source. A bit of a hyperbole, but I believe the exact numbers the article gave was 6 shots and 5 cups of coffee.


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## rwik123 (Nov 14, 2010)

Pittma said:


> I believe it was in the improper bostonian, let me do some digging to find the source. A bit of a hyperbole, but I believe the exact numbers the article gave was 6 shots and 5 cups of coffee.



i think he's calling BS on that fourloko is equal to 5-6 redbull and vodka drinks.. i think its just a misunderstanding, i think you were referring to the cups of coffee


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## Medic785 (Nov 14, 2010)

Four Loko is a weekly headache (starting Thursday night and ending early Sunday morning) for my one service as we protect a 10,000 student college campus in eastern Pennsylvania where Four Loko is prevalent.  It has made all the media markets that serve eastern Pennsylvania.  The town that contains all of the beverage-dispensing establishments recently asked all owners of bars and beverage distributors to voluntary pull Four Loko off the shelves because of the trouble we have been having with acute alcohol poisoning.  I believe some said they would but we'll see...


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## clibb (Nov 14, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> and the second one was Four Loko + Rum and Vodka= OD
> 
> which i dont know who in the right mind would do such a thing!
> 
> ...



If you OD on that, then maybe you shouldn't be drinking in the first place. Might have another medical condition you're not aware of.


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## BLSBoy (Nov 14, 2010)

Wah wah wah, boo hoo hoo. 
I just came back from BU, and while they were about a buck more then Fla, where I live, they were still about $3 a can. The g*ddammmed govt has no business with this. Kids need to learn, and if killing a few off is what it takes, well, survival of the fittest. 
I love redbull and vodka, but had to stop drinking it because of a negative reaction to redbull (see SVT and wicked hangovers). 
For $2-3, I can get drunk as I want, on something that I think tastes good. 

You can take your hope and change, and I'll keep my money, guns, and freedom.


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## fortsmithman (Nov 14, 2010)

It's been banned by one US college
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/15/ramapo-college-bans-alcoholic-energy-drink/


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## rescue329 (Nov 22, 2010)

*college*

I work in a college town of about 30,000 permanent residents and 28,000 college students and we have ran into the fourloko problem a few times but no more than what we normally get on the weekends for unresponsive idiots


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 22, 2010)

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/11/16/loko-alcoholic-drink-drop-caffeine/

Update!


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## Afflixion (Nov 22, 2010)

You guys speak about fourloko like it something new... There's other drinks  like it called Tilt and Sparks which have been out since early 2000 and have had no media attention...


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## medichopeful (Nov 22, 2010)

rwik123 said:


> Plus the caffeine side of it, i dont know the whole chemistry behind it, but it cannot be good to have those depressants and stimulants mixed together in such great numbers



As far as I know, they don't really know the physiology or chemistry behind it.  I can tell you, however, that the basic rundown is that when a stimulant and a depressant fight, the stimulant is the one that (usually) wins.  So the stimulant in Four Loko beats out the effects of the depressant, which basically results in someone being able to drink more before getting "drunk."  And when the alcohol hits, it can hit very fast and very hard.

I personally don't drink, but I have had 1 call that involved Four Loko.  The call came in as a "female not breathing at a party," but when we got there she was perfectly conscious.  Did my EMT-B stuff (which, let's face it, isn't much at all) and when I went to put the pulse oximeter on her, I definitely did a double take.  Her pulse was around 230 BPM, and her SpO2 was about 86 (granted, the speed of the pulse most likely affected this).  Story was, she had consumed 4 Four Lokos an hour ago.  That's the fastest pulse I've ever seen, and ever hope to see.


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## Bullets (Nov 23, 2010)

four loko is not 6 1/2 beers, its like 2 or maybe 3 and 2 or 3 cups of coffee. 

I used to drink sparks, a similar beverage when I was in college in south central PA and never had problem, all this media attention only serves to make kids want to seek it put and try it. I had two at a party this weekend and made it home fine. 

I'm 21, I should be able to drink what ever I want, because I understand the consequences.


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## Bullets (Nov 23, 2010)

double post, oops


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## zmedic (Nov 23, 2010)

We did the calculation in my tox class, and there is enough alcohol in one can to get a 70kg person to a BAL of about .150. So one question is should we be selling something that if someone buys and drinks one they well get to twice the legal limit of drunk? Also note that it is sold in a can, so it's clearly not like a bottle of vodka that you are able to use part of it and put the rest away for another night. It is intended to be drunk all at once. 

That's just the ETOH. There is quite a bit of caffeine in there, enough to start worrying about side effects. 

Third issue is it is painted and marketed like an energy drink, some people are unaware of how much alcohol is in a can.

 Fourth problem is that it is being aimed toward underaged drinkers. It's usually harder for them to buy vodka (sold in liquor stores were most people get carded) vs a can of 4loko sold in convenience stores and gas stations. 

I'm a little surprised by all the "let people do whatever they want" arguments. Companies aren't allowed to create products that put people at undue risk. They aren't banning people from drinking these things, they are stopping them from being sold. And I think it is reasonable for a state to say you can't sell a can of alcohol that can't be closed and if you drink the whole thing a decent percentage of the population will get sick.


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## BLSBoy (Nov 23, 2010)

zmedic said:


> We did the calculation in my tox class, and there is enough alcohol in one can to get a 70kg person to a BAL of about .150. So one question is should we be selling something that if someone buys and drinks one they well get to twice the legal limit of drunk? Also note that it is sold in a can, so it's clearly not like a bottle of vodka that you are able to use part of it and put the rest away for another night. It is intended to be drunk all at once.
> 
> That's just the ETOH. There is quite a bit of caffeine in there, enough to start worrying about side effects.
> 
> ...



And who says that I have to drink it back in one gulp?
Marketed? I have yet to see ANY marketing on it, and the sales people card whoever I come in with as well, then swipe my DL on the register. 

I know what I get into when I drink 4loko. The govt had no right to do what they did.


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## Bullets (Nov 23, 2010)

Prove a decent percent will be severely impaired of one can. All these stories have something in common, additional liquor, or drugs bring introduced to the drink. 

It says is alcohol content in pretty significant fine and typeface right on the front of the can

These products have been on the market for years,  is it now different? Sparks is a prepackaged vodka + energy drink sold by Anheiuser Busch in a similar sized can I was drinking in 2000

how is this different then a 40oz beverage? High volume, high alcohol content? Or the smirnoff ice sold in 32 oz bottles

The access argument is a weak one, ban this stuff, it won't even cause a blip in the underage drinking rates. Kids will just go get drunk off traditional drinks. Except its to hard to demonize every type of liquor, but one product can be made the villain


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## 281mustang (Nov 23, 2010)

zmedic said:


> We did the calculation in my tox class, and there is enough alcohol in one can to get a 70kg person to a BAL of about .150. So one question is should we be selling something that if someone buys and drinks one they well get to twice the legal limit of drunk? Also note that it is sold in a can, so it's clearly not like a bottle of vodka that you are able to use part of it and put the rest away for another night. It is intended to be drunk all at once.
> 
> That's just the ETOH. There is quite a bit of caffeine in there, enough to start worrying about side effects.
> 
> ...


 The 4 loko with the most content is still only the equivalent of three 8% ABV beers and is designed to be drunk over an extended period of time. I'm not one to mix caffine with booze but if someone else wants to that's their business, not the governments.


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## b2dragun (Nov 25, 2010)

Everyone I transport that is etoh off of Four Loko is under 18.  I don't agree with the govt stepping in.  If people are dumb enough to drink it without looking at thw alcohol content then let them get tbe hospital bill.  Get after the stores selling to minors.  The company found a product that promotes making money, nothing wrong with that.  It is the American way to blame anyone but the American f'in up.


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## zmedic (Nov 25, 2010)

First off, Four Loko is 12% ABV, so 24 ounces of it is the same as 3 12% beers, pretty strong. Secondly, yes 40z bottles have alot of ETOH but they have a cap and be closed, and they have a lot more volume. I've seen 18 year olds trying to down 40s and they tend to throw up from the volume well before the get alcohol poisoning. Finally, by marketing I meant creating a product with a look and taste that appeals to certain groups. It's like the tobacco companies making flavored cigarettes that appealed mainly to underaged smokers. 

Basic public health theory says if you have something that is causing public harm without a demonstrable benefit you get rid of it. So there are a lot 18 year olds getting sick from this product, and there really aren't many people who can legally use the product who are saying "hey, I drink that, don't take it away from me." I know there are a bunch of people who like to argue about rights v state power etc. But are you guys saying you personally are upset because you can't drink it? 

If most of the people who are bummed about this are underaged drinkers, yet another piece of evidence they were right to ban it.


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## Bullets (Nov 25, 2010)

zmedic said:


> First off, Four Loko is 12% ABV, so 24 ounces of it is the same as 3 12% beers, pretty strong. Secondly, yes 40z bottles have alot of ETOH but they have a cap and be closed, and they have a lot more volume. I've seen 18 year olds trying to down 40s and they tend to throw up from the volume well before the get alcohol poisoning. Finally, by marketing I meant creating a product with a look and taste that appeals to certain groups. It's like the tobacco companies making flavored cigarettes that appealed mainly to underaged smokers.
> 
> Basic public health theory says if you have something that is causing public harm without a demonstrable benefit you get rid of it. So there are a lot 18 year olds getting sick from this product, and there really aren't many people who can legally use the product who are saying "hey, I drink that, don't take it away from me." I know there are a bunch of people who like to argue about rights v state power etc. But are you guys saying you personally are upset because you can't drink it?
> 
> If most of the people who are bummed about this are underaged drinkers, yet another piece of evidence they were right to ban it.



Beer is not 12% abv,  by that point its either a malt or some kind of barley wine. Most general otc beers are between 3-5% abv. This is like drinking the alcohol of 3 miller lite's very fast, or 3 shots in quick succession. But with any of these alcopops, your getting less of the secondary drink, ie energy, then 3 beers, about 12 oz less

If you drink it fast, your going to be drunk, just like if you chug beer or pound shots. The company doesn't even advertise that heavily, most of the hype comes from word of mouth, and now with the incessant media coverage it becoming more appealing because people want to see what is all about.  Never heard of this stuff until the NJ DOHSS sent a memo to all EMS agencies about it, at which  point I wanted to try it and see what it was all about. 

The more people call attention to the drink the more times we as providers are going to encounter it, before this stuff I never encountered a person who was intox from other similar products on any noticeable level

I we really want to go after a widespread culprit, we should ban vodka, which comes so dirty cheap in plastic liter bottles is almost criminal. Its also the most prevalent hard liquor on campus by far.

Is the issue this particular drink, our is it societal outrage at the knowledge that people under 21, many of whom are legal adults in every other way, hold blatant disregard for the drinking laws in this countr and this product exposed that to the nation?


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## jgmedic (Nov 25, 2010)

Maybe we should start expecting some sort of personal responsibility from people and not blaming the products for some idiot. If you're dumb enough to not know what you're putting in your body, then you get exactly what you deserve.


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## HotelCo (Nov 28, 2010)

They're banning the sale of Four Loko in Michigan, which I think is a load of garbage. As others have said, Vodka and Redbull have been around for a long time. Other combinations of energy drinks, and alcohol are out there as well.

I don't live far from the Ohio border, so I can go down and load up on some if I really want one. (edit: Nevermind, I found out the manufacturers are pulling the product. I say they just slap a warning label on it like they do cigarettes, and let me enjoy myself.)

P.S. Four Loko's are great.


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## Cohn (Nov 28, 2010)

Four Loko will now be available without the energy :censored::censored::censored::censored: in it 

They are not pulling it from shelves they are just reformulating it lol

And if you ask me the energy part never came when I drank it.


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## HotelCo (Nov 28, 2010)

Cohn said:


> Four Loko will now be available without the energy :censored::censored::censored::censored: in it
> 
> They are not pulling it from shelves they are just reformulating it lol
> 
> And if you ask me the energy part never came when I drank it.



The energy drink was the best part. It'd help counteract the effects of the alcohol, but the caffeine would wear off before the alcohol. So, you'd feel just a little bit of it, and then all of a sudden you'd be slammed. It's pointless to reformulate, people will just add in an energy drink to the mix.


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## BLSBoy (Nov 28, 2010)

I just went out and bought 52 cans of the stuff, with another case of Blue Raspberry and Fruit Punch coming to me Tuesday.


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## Pittsburgh77 (Nov 29, 2010)

People don't have to drink it. No one is forcing you to drinking the higher alcohol content. Then they should bann Southern Comfort-151 at the state level as well if people want to cry about strong drinks.


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## Riverkilt (Jan 2, 2011)

Political issues aside - this stuff has hit our small rural town with a vengence.  Kids drink it because its formulated to taste like kool aid.  There's as much alcohol in a 16 ounce can as in a bottle of wine.  The high caffeine keeps the kids from passing out and they drink ANOTHER ONE.  See very high BACs in kids drinking at least TWO cans of Four Locos and just like drinking two bottles of wine would/could kill them they wind up at the ER in a blackout.

One of the unusual characteristics of this concoction is how often it seems to cause kids to black out.   

Also seeing a lot of underage DUIs on Four Locos from the caffeine.  Kids feel fine from the caffeine up and take off driving.  Much like the old cocaine and alcohol DUIs back in the 80s.

Just saying if someone has been drinking Four Locos - particularly and underage person - you can usually figure a very high BAC on board.


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## HotelCo (Jan 2, 2011)

Riverkilt said:


> Political issues aside - this stuff has hit our small rural town with a vengence.  Kids drink it because its formulated to taste like kool aid.  There's as much alcohol in a 16 ounce can as in a bottle of wine.  The high caffeine keeps the kids from passing out and they drink ANOTHER ONE.  See very high BACs in kids drinking at least TWO cans of Four Locos and just like drinking two bottles of wine would/could kill them they wind up at the ER in a blackout.
> 
> One of the unusual characteristics of this concoction is how often it seems to cause kids to black out.
> 
> ...



Irresponsible drinking, and choices are to blame. Not Four-Loko. People have been mixing Vodka and Red Bull for years, and no one cried about it...


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## clibb (Jan 2, 2011)

Bullets said:


> Beer is not 12% abv,  by that point its either a malt or some kind of barley wine. Most general otc beers are between 3-5% abv. This is like drinking the alcohol of 3 miller lite's very fast, or 3 shots in quick succession. But with any of these alcopops, your getting less of the secondary drink, ie energy, then 3 beers, about 12 oz less



Maybe not your Miller light. But, there are beers with more than 12% abv.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisbock#Eisbock
http://aleheads.com/2010/09/20/best-beer-in-america-over-12-abv/

I never drink a beer with anything less than 5% abv. But, that's my taste in beers. I could never drink a Coors light of a Bud light, just tastes horrible.


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## medickate (Jan 2, 2011)

One of my very first calls was due to FourLoko. A small, underage kid drank about 4 and smoked an unknown quanitity of marijuana and just went downhill.


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## Riverkilt (Jan 2, 2011)

Again....!  I don't care about the politics or who's responsible or what else has gone on before - I'm talking about having a serious awareness of what's presenting when its found out a person has been drinking Four Locos....

When a bystander says, "She only had one."  Its still serious.   When I see a beverage like this sweep my little town's underage drinkers it causes concern because of the damage I see it doing both physically and legally to the kids.

I'm talking about the dynamic and the information not about whose fault it is and I'm talking about awareness of a product's effects.  Just had a 22yo skinny lady so drunk on it she couldn't tell us her name until she'd detoxed down about three hours. Yeah, she's of age but it still hammered her.


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## zmedic (Jan 2, 2011)

I think you have to look at it like a black box. If you say "product X linked to an increase in morbidity and mortality," then something needs to be done. I don't care if it's a new kind of car, a new kind of gun, a new drink whatever. Saying "oh, you can get that drunk or hurt or killed with something else" misses the point. It doesn't really matter what the product is, if it is linked to worse outcomes you have to do something about it. And while I'm all for education, I'd point to the success that we've had educating teenagers not to drink until they are 21, not to drive drunk, not to smoke until they are 18 etc.  

You can't really compare this to other kinds of alcohol, because it doesn't matter that Jack Daniels has more alcohol, or that there are other beers that are 24 proof. Kids aren't drinking those things the same way that they are drinking this.


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## TransportJockey (Jan 2, 2011)

medickate said:


> One of my very first calls was due to FourLoko. A small, underage kid drank about 4 and smoked an unknown quanitity of marijuana and just went downhill.


Sounds like the kid got exactly what they asked for.


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## rsdaveo (Jan 2, 2011)

Besides FourLoko this is also another hot thing with the college campuses, alcohol whipped cream..
http://microliquor.com/cream-alcohol-infused-whipped-cream/

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/11/29/whip-alcohol-laced-whipped-cream-raising-concerns/


Hey if people want it, let them have it. I have yet to try the whip cream but have had Fourloko before. Not much different than all the others out there


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## HotelCo (Jan 2, 2011)

rsdaveo said:


> Besides FourLoko this is also another hot thing with the college campuses, alcohol whipped cream..
> http://microliquor.com/cream-alcohol-infused-whipped-cream/



That's kind of cool. I'm going to look around for it. lol


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## Pneumothorax (Jan 3, 2011)

Stephanie. said:


> I've drank it. Probably will NEVER drink it again. Not my type of poison.



i had about 4oz..and almost puked. its disgusting. how anyone can drink enough to black out is beyond me. give me my rb&goose... at least that tastes good LOL



rsdaveo said:


> Besides FourLoko this is also another hot thing with the college campuses, alcohol whipped cream..
> http://microliquor.com/cream-alcohol-infused-whipped-cream/
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/11/29/whip-alcohol-laced-whipped-cream-raising-concerns/
> ...



OOooooh that whip cream looks intriguing ...


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## BLSBoy (Jan 3, 2011)

Still love em. Still have a fridge packed with em.


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## JPINFV (Jan 3, 2011)

zmedic said:


> I think you have to look at it like a black box. If you say "product X linked to an increase in morbidity and mortality," then something needs to be done. I don't care if it's a new kind of car, a new kind of gun, a new drink whatever. Saying "oh, you can get that drunk or hurt or killed with something else" misses the point. It doesn't really matter what the product is, if it is linked to worse outcomes you have to do something about it. And while I'm all for education, I'd point to the success that we've had educating teenagers not to drink until they are 21, not to drive drunk, not to smoke until they are 18 etc.
> 
> You can't really compare this to other kinds of alcohol, because it doesn't matter that Jack Daniels has more alcohol, or that there are other beers that are 24 proof. Kids aren't drinking those things the same way that they are drinking this.




You know, there was a time when the citizens of this country didn't need the government to hold their hand the entire way through life. Why does the government have to do anything about this? Where are the parents for the kids under 18? What's next, the government deciding that some brand of kitchen knife is too sharp to own because some moron cut themselves with it?


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## uminchu (Jan 4, 2011)

*Hmmm*

They banned four lokos in my state (Washington).  I do not know if any other states are seeking reciprocal action.  I think eventually they are trying to ban all alcoholic energy drinks.


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## Aidey (Jan 4, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> You know, there was a time when the citizens of this country didn't need the government to hold their hand the entire way through life. Why does the government have to do anything about this? Where are the parents for the kids under 18? What's next, the government deciding that some brand of kitchen knife is too sharp to own because some moron cut themselves with it?



I view it as an educational issue. Collectively people are idiots. Well, more accurately people are ignorant. When the FDA made their ruling on Four Loko it was a big topic of discussion around work because we had seen so many problems with it. It was interesting how many people didn't know that 1 Four Loko has the same amount of alcohol as a average bottle of wine. 

An even better example is the situation with food and obesity in this country. The vast majority of people are totally ignorant about nutrition and it is just getting worse. 

Because the sickest and most disabled end up on State and Federal benefits eventually it doesn't really surprise me they have an interest in trying to address the issues. Think about dialysis. ESRD is an automatic qualifier for Medicare, HTN and diabetes account for the majority of ESRD cases and the number is climbing. If the number of people on dialysis from those causes could be reduced the savings would be huge.


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## JPINFV (Jan 4, 2011)

Aidey said:


> An even better example is the situation with food and obesity in this country. The vast majority of people are totally ignorant about nutrition and it is just getting worse.



However, the solution isn't prohibition (because, you know, it's not like a rum and coke is a new and/or rare drink), but education. Using the obesity angle, one of the new laws in California that just went into effect required fast food places to post calorie counts on their menu. I think there's definitely going to be an effect when you can't hide that the cheese pizza is 250 calories per slice. 



> Because the sickest and most disabled end up on State and Federal benefits eventually it doesn't really surprise me they have an interest in trying to address the issues. Think about dialysis. ESRD is an automatic qualifier for Medicare, HTN and diabetes account for the majority of ESRD cases and the number is climbing. If the number of people on dialysis from those causes could be reduced the savings would be huge.



Going down this path would mean that the government (more so at the state as they aren't as confined by the constitution as the federal government) could regulate anything and everything that we do. There is no freedom, after all if people are healthier with an hour of exercise a day, why shouldn't the government pass a law and mandate it? After all, they have a vested interest in reducing government funded medical care. Oh, sorry, you had a hard day at work? Off to the gym for an hour before bed anyways.


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## Aidey (Jan 4, 2011)

That is assuming that people know what 250 calories per slice means. I agree that education is needed, it is just scary how much is needed. I am a huge fan of information being made available, because it at least gives people more of an opportunity to educate themselves. 

I don't necessarily believe in mandated lifestyle changes because I support personal responsibility a bit more than that. For lack of a better option I think more health education should be mandated for teens. Also, people should be able to be denied coverage if they are non-compliant. If a non-compliant diabetic has been educated about nutrition, exercise, blood sugar monitoring, etc and continues to disregard what they need to be doing, and continue to have an A1C of 14 there needs to be a consequence. I know it isn't a very good idea, but there needs to be some sort of incentive for people to become educated and use that knowledge.


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## zmedic (Jan 4, 2011)

I think people are confusing the govemerment's ability to mandate behavior, which is limited, and their ability to regulate products. This isn't whether people are allowed to combine alcohol with other things, it is if a product sold in the united states is safe. They regulate everything you buy, from cars, to child sleepwear. I just don't see why this is such a personal liberty issue and those other things aren't.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jan 4, 2011)

zmedic said:


> I think people are confusing the govemerment's ability to mandate behavior, which is limited, and their ability to regulate products. This isn't whether people are allowed to combine alcohol with other things, it is if a product sold in the united states is safe. They regulate everything you buy, from cars, to child sleepwear. I just don't see why this is such a personal liberty issue and those other things aren't.



If Four Loko isn't safe, then I suppose guns kill people too?

Inanimate objects are no more dangerous than WE make them.


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## reaper (Jan 4, 2011)

Two words to remember




 JOB SECURITY!


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## JPINFV (Jan 4, 2011)

zmedic said:


> They regulate everything you buy, from cars, to child sleepwear. I just don't see why this is such a personal liberty issue and those other things aren't.



The problem I have is the concept that caffeinated alcohol beverages are dangerous, so they need to be banned, but caffeinated mixed drinks are perfectly OK. If Four Loko is so dangerous, then shouldn't a rum and coke or Irish coffee be equally dangerous? Why not ban the making of those too?


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 4, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> The problem I have is the concept that caffeinated alcohol beverages are dangerous, so they need to be banned, but caffeinated mixed drinks are perfectly OK. If Four Loko is so dangerous, then shouldn't a rum and coke or Irish coffee be equally dangerous? Why not ban the making of those too?


If you see any irish coffees, rum+cokes, or vodka+red bulls for sale in cans at convenience stores or 6-packs, please inform your local congressman.  I'm sure they'd be happy to banninate them.  

For one thing, bartenders have a legal liability for patrons they serve. While such responsibilities do exist _in theory_ for clerks at stores that sell these four loko drinks, they are obviously harder to enforce and only happen in more extreme cases.  You might buy a whole fridge full of these and drink them all at home 2 months later before you decide to go out driving in your 1200kg Volkswagen cruise missile.


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## JPINFV (Jan 4, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> For one thing, bartenders have a legal liability for patrons they serve. While such responsibilities do exist _in theory_ for clerks at stores that sell these four loko drinks, they are obviously harder to enforce and only happen in more extreme cases.  You might buy a whole fridge full of these and drink them all at home 2 months later before you decide to go out driving in your 1200kg Volkswagen cruise missile.



I didn't realize that I needed a bar tender to make a rum and coke.


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 4, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> I didn't realize that I needed a bar tender to make a rum and coke.



Regardless of who is pouring the drinks, someone is making them (and is responsible for whomever is consuming them).  Main point was that your rum & coke doesn't come pre-mixed, in a single-serving can, as others have pointed out.


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## rwik123 (Jan 4, 2011)

Another thing about the four loko is it's not sealable. All other hard liquor is in a bottle with a cap. The fourloko is in a single serving can, encouraging it to be drunken in one sitting. Just an observation.


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## TransportJockey (Jan 4, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> Regardless of who is pouring the drinks, someone is making them (and is responsible for whomever is consuming them).  Main point was that your rum & coke doesn't come pre-mixed, in a single-serving can, as others have pointed out.



But Jack and Coke is served premixed in 12 oz bottles.


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## HotelCo (Jan 4, 2011)

dixie_flatline; said:
			
		

> Main point was that your rum & coke doesn't come pre-mixed, in a single-serving can, as others have pointed out.



So?

.


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## spike91 (Jan 4, 2011)

Nothing wrong with thinning out the herd 

I'm a college sophomore and I run with a college EMS group. Saw plenty of kids who had too much, but whatever. Its not necessarily the drink, its the dumbass drinking it. I've had them several times without ending up dead or in a hospital; its about moderation and RESPONSIBILITY.

And I agree, the government has no business banning them.


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