# Michael Jackson Dead



## Hockey

Apparently he arrested

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/25/michael.jackson/index.html



Hmmph...bummer


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## ClarkKent

I think it says

"Michael Jackson taken to hospital"

not arrested


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## Chimpie

ClarkKent said:


> I think it says
> 
> "Michael Jackson taken to hospital"
> 
> not arrested



He means cardiac arrest.


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## Hockey

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/


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## Meursault

That should be an interesting autopsy. I wonder if he'd peel like an onion. That said, how is this EMS-related? It's celebrity-related, but the involvement of EMS is trivial and non-newsworthy.


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## bstone

Not dead....yet!


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## Hockey

MrConspiracy said:


> That should be an interesting autopsy. I wonder if he'd peel like an onion. That said, how is this EMS-related? It's celebrity-related, but the involvement of EMS is trivial and non-newsworthy.



Don't nitpick

Its medically related because of cardiac arrest if you want to play technicalities



bstone said:


> Not dead....yet!




Cardiact arrest, they "revived him" on scene..


We all know what that means


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## Chimpie

Gotta love Geraldo.  Already talking about suicide.  What a goof.

Even if it was, it's way too early to be talking about it.

*And let me say this now.... This topic better stay on track.*


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## Aidey

It's EMS worthy because how many field saves do you hear about....

...or something like that.


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## silver

CBS and the LA Times are now stating he is dead. However others have not confirmed.


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## Hockey

Aidey said:


> It's EMS worthy because how many field saves do you hear about....
> 
> ...or something like that.


They didn't save him


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## Sasha

Farrah Fawcett died today too.


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## Hockey

Sasha said:


> Farrah Fawcett died today too.




I know


Its a sad day for a lot of guys


At least the children can breathe a sigh of relief


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## Aidey

I posted that while the headline was that he was still in a coma, but now MSNBC is also running the LA times story. 

An amusing bit from it 

"Los Angeles Fire Department Capt. Steve Ruda told the newspaper that Jackson was not breathing when paramedics arrived at his home and CPR was performed.

TMZ.com reported that he may have suffered cardiac arrest."


Last time I checked if CPR is performed there is no "may have" about suffering that cardiac arrest.


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## Scout

He was dead in Europe close on 2 hours ago.


Catch up guys.


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## Hockey

Scout said:


> He was dead in Europe close on 2 hours ago.
> 
> 
> Catch up guys.




What are you talking about??


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## ResTech

*Micheal Jackson, Dead at age 50*

From news source TMZ
________________________
We've just learned Michael Jackson has died. He was 50. 

Michael suffered a cardiac arrest earlier this afternoon at his Holmby Hills home and paramedics were unable to revive him. We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back.

...........Michael is survived by three children: Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine Jackson and Prince "Blanket" Michael Jackson II.


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## Scout

The death of Michael Jackson?


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## Hockey

Scout said:


> The death of Michael Jackson?




Regarding the time statement


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## Scout

It was on the radio at about 2130 that he was dead. Its now 23:44


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## Sasha

http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=13388


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## el Murpharino

Glad I didn't get tickets to his London show...


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## Hockey

Scout said:


> It was on the radio at about 2130 that he was dead. Its now 23:44




Shows how slow news is here


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## ResTech

My bad... I missed that...lol.. someone beat me to it... 

*** DELETE THREAD ***

_*Threads merged*_


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## djmedic913

Here is my question:

Do you want to be the medic working the cardiac arrest of Michael Jackson?


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## emt_angel25

hes dead......oh well i wont cry myself to sleep over that.


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## emt_angel25

djmedic913 said:


> Here is my question:
> 
> Do you want to be the medic working the cardiac arrest of Michael Jackson?




absolutely not. i wouldnt want to be the one "responsible" for his death. but on the flip side i wouldn't want to known as the one who revived his *** either.


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## Scout

is it unusual, IF HE WAS cpr in progress at scene, to transport to hospital in LA.


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## Sasha

This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.

http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg

I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.


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## emt_angel25

Sasha said:


> This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
> 
> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.





Agreed! there are somethings people in the outside world just dont need to see and that is one of them


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## Sasha

emt_angel25 said:


> Agreed! there are somethings people in the outside world just dont need to see and that is one of them



I don't care if that's something the outside world shouldn't see. I care that EMS was called to his house in a time of crisis and instead of being patient advocates they snapped pictures to sell to the news media. I hope it wasn't the paramedics.. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But if that's a bystander they need better scene control, far too close.


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## DrankTheKoolaid

*re*

Hopefully it was a bystander.  But if it wasn't and it was somebody on duty it's pretty shameful.  Then again the person just made enough money to retire for the rest of his life off what he made on that photo., Congrats to him if that's the case.

And don't be hypocrite's either as 99% of humans would do the same thing if they were in the same position to retire wealthy without another worry at whatever age they are.


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## Wee-EMT

Sasha said:


> This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
> 
> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.



That’s ridiculous. The worst part is, someone made millions on it


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## Sasha

> And don't be hypocrite's either as 99% of humans would do the same thing if they were in the same position to retire wealthy without another worry at whatever age they are.



Speak for yourself and what you would do, not everyone else.


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## Chimpie

My guess is that picture was taken outside the hospital or outside his home as the ambulance was backing up.


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## Noctis Lucis Caelum

Sad day losing 2 big stars, RIP MJ and Farrah


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## el Murpharino

Sasha said:


> This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
> 
> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.



Nah...they're glad they got a good photo of it and are probably being congratulated by their staff.  Let's be honest here, MJ is probably one of the most well known celebrities in the world.  To the press, that and their needs for a good photo trump his privacy.  Unfortunate, yes...but the nature of the beast.

Secondly, an EMS provider would be very hard pressed to provide adequate scene control in a situation like that.  Imagine tens of hundreds of picture-hungry photographers trying to capture a picture on an arrest.  You're trying to provide adequate care in addition to having people who care nothing about you or your patient vying for a picture at any cost.  The best you could do is say "get the f*ck out of the way", and they'd completely ignore you.  Even the cops do a futile job at controlling the paparazzi mob.  Face it, the public thirsts for these pictures...and they will get them.


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## MedicPrincess

Sasha said:


> I hope it wasn't the paramedics.. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But if that's a bystander they need better scene control, far too close.


 
I highly doubt it was the paramedics. It could have been a cop, bystander....or paparazzi with a high powered telescopic camera lens and they zoomed in.  Look at it... there is such a glare, it had to have been taken through a window.

Hard to say. But pretty distasteful either way.


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## DrankTheKoolaid

*re*

Wow, they got an EJ on MJ.   No IO's in the EMS system?


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## DV_EMT

at least the EMT's had good BSI from the picture!


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## djmedic913

Scout said:


> is it unusual, IF HE WAS cpr in progress at scene, to transport to hospital in LA.



you transport him...way too high profile not to transport...I mean if it is obvious death...then you don't but if CPR in progress you transport!


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## emt_angel25

Chimpie said:


> My guess is that picture was taken outside the hospital or outside his home as the ambulance was backing up.





it looks almost as if it was taken in the amulance cause the guy at the head...is sitting. now i dont know how everyone else ventilates pts. on scene but usually they arent sitting at the head.  i could be wrong just wanted to throw that out there


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## Sasha

emt_angel25 said:


> it looks almost as if it was taken in the amulance cause the guy at the head...is sitting. now i dont know how everyone else ventilates pts. on scene but usually they arent sitting at the head.  i could be wrong just wanted to throw that out there



Actually, looks like I'm a jerk. It looks like it's taken from outside of the ambulance looking in, the red on the bottom may be reflection from the window.


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## djmedic913

emt_angel25 said:


> it looks almost as if it was taken in the amulance cause the guy at the head...is sitting. now i dont know how everyone else ventilates pts. on scene but usually they arent sitting at the head.  i could be wrong just wanted to throw that out there



If the jump seat is close enuff...sit...why not...




Sasha said:


> This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
> 
> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.



Are we sure this is actually him? it really doesn't have enuff detail to confirm it is him. It is most likely a fake.

But if it is real, that was 1 lucky shot. You can tell it was supposed to be from the outside...


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## silver

Sasha said:


> Actually, looks like I'm a jerk. It looks like it's taken from outside of the ambulance looking in, the red on the bottom may be reflection from the window.


There is a video showing the ambulance backing up from the house. there are looking into the windows so i assume its from then.


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## guardian528

just watched him get transported to the coroner's office on the news...

personally, i'm too young to have actually listened to his music or to have followed him, and this doesn't really affect me at all


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## kilmourne

RIP michael he will be missed but not forgotten as odd as he was lawl


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## lightsandsirens5

Sasha said:


> This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
> 
> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.



Oh gag. Like everyone else has said, I sure hope it was not the EMS crew.

I am definatly not a fan of Jackson, but everyone deserves privacy no matter how famous they are. (Here ends my statement of the obvious.)


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## Ridryder911

Corky said:


> Wow, they got an EJ on MJ.   No IO's in the EMS system?



You mean you rather start an I/O in lieu of an EJ? I/O's should be the last resort, as venous access is preferred to have to use I/O. 

I/O is great but should used as the last resort for many factors. Also, I could detect that they did an EJ, rather the tubing appeared to be going to the extremity and other tubing appeared to be attached to the EtCo2. 

I am surprised though, that his skin color did not appear to be as bad as I would thought. 

R/r 911


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## Melclin

MrConspiracy said:


> That should be an interesting autopsy. .



OMG a thousand times yes. That is the first thing I said to my mum when she told me he died.


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## VentMedic

My bet is on complications from his autoimmune diseases.


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## Scout

Ridryder911 said:


> I am surprised though, that his skin color did not appear to be as bad as I would thought.
> 
> R/r 911



lol


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## amberdt03

Sasha said:


> This pic was found by exodus and came up in the chat.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/06/98268/400_mjackson_ambulance_newgraphic_090625.jpg
> 
> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.



i agree i think this pic is just sick. but considering how high profile this guy is, i'm sure it wasn't taken by fire/ems/police...... definitely paparazzi and when he/she showed it to everyone he/she was probably getting high fives and told good job.


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## Hockey

> Farrah Fawcett died and went to heavan. St Peter said that since she was such a good person she could have one wish before she entered.
> 
> 
> She said, "I just want ALL the chidren of the world to be safe"




With that said, remember, he was acquitted of his charges. Many of us convicted him in the court of public opinion.  He was never found guilty.


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## Ridryder911

Hockey9019 said:


> With that said, remember, he was acquitted of his charges. Many of us convicted him in the court of public opinion.  He was never found guilty.



He was a magnificent musician and entertainer. Without being that, most of us could not have afforded such trial attorneys or make such deals that he was able to do. I am definitely not disrespecting his death as it is a sad event but let's not martyr him as well. 

Regarding the pic, I don't like paparazzi pics either but we see faces and pics of others as well. Actually, the pic displayed that he was a person, just alike anyone else. 

Personally, I feel sorry for the medic that had to provide care. I could not imagine the undue pressers or even intubating a person whom you know that whole career is dependent upon your action(s). I am sure many of the LA medics are familiar and maybe used to the "celebrities" but I am glad I don't have to deal with hassle of it. I could only imagine the discussion in the rig afterwards and at the station house. 

R/r 911


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## VentMedic

I will have to give the LA medics credit for how they have maintained patient privacy with their high profile cases which also included Britney. When you have Paramedics like the two who where only to happy to give the media gorey details about the chimp attack on the woman a few months ago, it violates a public trust. This also holds true with the situation involving John Travolta's son and Anna Nicole. It just thrusts EMS into a limelight that is not needed regardless of how some want the public to know what those on the ambulances do.


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## Scout

There is talk of an opiate overdose Demerol/Morphine.  Apparently he had a doctor living with him who is now AWOL.


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## Hockey

Prepare for mass media for the next 6 months about Demerol and OD's!


Glad I got rid of cable


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## Ridryder911

Apparently to _TMZ_ the initial crew was going to "flag"/pronounce M.J (King of Pop). As it was apparent he had been dead for a while. The physician was insistent that they continue to work him. Apparently there was an empty Lidocaine box found PTA. 

Now, I ask was this Lido for possible analgesic or cardiac (since PCP was a Cardiologist) ? 

Wow! I seem to remember a very similar case 30+ years ago, involving the "King of Rock-n-Roll". 


http://www.tmz.com/


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## Hockey

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/062609_michael_2.mp3

911 call


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## minneola24

Here is a video of the ambulance leaving the house:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU


I cant believe at the end they try to stick cameras in the back of the window to get a shot of Michael while he is dying...


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## 46Young

Hockey9019 said:


> With that said, remember, he was acquitted of his charges. Many of us convicted him in the court of public opinion.  He was never found guilty.



The Teflon Don beat quite a few cases before he was ratted out, too.


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## rjddvm

minneola24 said:


> Here is a video of the ambulance leaving the house:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU
> 
> 
> I cant believe at the end they try to stick cameras in the back of the window to get a shot of Michael while he is dying...



That's the ultimate money shot, isn't it.  The photographer will probably be able to retire on what he got paid for it.  

Re the 911 call, if there was supposedly a doctor there doing CPR, why did the caller say that CPR was being performed on the bed?  You'd think a cardiologist of all people would know better.

Wonder, if the demerol OD story is true, if the doc skedaddled out of there when it became obvious Jackson was dead.


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## 46Young

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Oh gag. Like everyone else has said, I sure hope it was not the EMS crew.
> 
> I am definatly not a fan of Jackson, but everyone deserves privacy no matter how famous they are. (Here ends my statement of the obvious.)



+1. The problem is, when you become famous, any and all areas of your personal life are fair game for the media. It's par for the course. I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way of things.


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## Hockey

rjddvm said:


> That's the ultimate money shot, isn't it.  The photographer will probably be able to retire on what he got paid for it.
> 
> Re the 911 call, if there was supposedly a doctor there doing CPR, why did the caller say that CPR was being performed on the bed?*  You'd think a cardiologist of all people would know better.*
> 
> Wonder, if the demerol OD story is true, if the doc skedaddled out of there when it became obvious Jackson was dead.




My 1 month old arrest the Doctor had the kid on a NRB @ 8 l/min


Because he wasn't breathing


Remember


*What do you call a Doctor that graduated Med School with a C-?


Doctor
*


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## Ridryder911

Hockey9019 said:


> My 1 month old arrest the Doctor had the kid on a NRB @ 8 l/min
> 
> 
> Because he wasn't breathing
> 
> 
> Remember
> 
> 
> *What do you call a Doctor that graduated Med School with a C-?
> 
> 
> Doctor
> *



Actually, most medical schools don't allow C's but it's a nice way to say mediocre is okay...


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## AnthonyM83

Scout said:


> is it unusual, IF HE WAS cpr in progress at scene, to transport to hospital in LA.


 Completely depends on the cardiac rhythm.



Sasha said:


> I think that is an absolutely disgusting invasion of privacy. I hope whoever took that is ashamed of themselves.


Not a chance. Have you seen how the TMZ people get off on stuff like that?



Sasha said:


> I hope it wasn't the paramedics.. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But if that's a bystander they need better scene control, far too close.


I won't even doubt for a second that they maintained their integrity. How on earth would someone pause to take a picture without being noticed or immediately chewed out by their crew?



Corky said:


> Wow, they got an EJ on MJ.   No IO's in the EMS system?


It's under scope, but hard to find a provider agency who carries them (cost of equipment and re-training), unfortunately.



rjddvm said:


> Re the 911 call, if there was supposedly a doctor there doing CPR, why did the caller say that CPR was being performed on the bed?  You'd think a cardiologist of all people would know better.


You might initially think, but most cardiologists aren't ER doctors and have very limited experience running codes. You should see many of their CPR re-cert classes. Not knocking their abilities...it's just limited exposure and it's not like a doctor's head wouldn't be spinning if Michael Jackson coded in front of him without other medical staff to help.



46Young said:


> +1. The problem is, when you become famous, any and all areas of your personal life are fair game for the media. It's par for the course. I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way of things.


 Not really. There's a baseline of how much intrusion you're going to have, but every now and then paparazzi does go too far.



Ridryder911 said:


> I could only imagine the discussion in the rig afterwards and at the station house.


 Or the barrage of text messages and phone calls as everyone looked up who was working RA 71...


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## HotelCo

djmedic913 said:
			
		

> Here is my question:
> 
> Do you want to be the medic working the cardiac arrest of Michael Jackson?



A person is a person, no matter who they are.



Corky said:


> And don't be hypocrite's either as 99% of humans would do the same thing if they were in the same position to retire wealthy without another worry at whatever age they are.



I must be that 1%. 



emt_angel25 said:


> it looks almost as if it was taken in the amulance cause the guy at the head...is sitting. now i dont know how everyone else ventilates pts. on scene but usually they arent sitting at the head.  i could be wrong just wanted to throw that out there



If you're able to sit, why not?


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## sop

guardian528 said:


> just watched him get transported to the coroner's office on the news...
> 
> personally, i'm too young to have actually listened to his music or to have followed him, and this doesn't really affect me at all



How old are you? I'm sure you heard someone playing one of his songs. The last ones I remember were: Ghost, Blood is on The Dance Floor, You are not Alone, and Butterflies


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## VentMedic

> Originally Posted by *Corky*
> 
> 
> _Wow, they got an EJ on MJ. No IO's in the EMS system?_





AnthonyM83 said:


> It's under scope, but hard to find a provider agency who carries them (cost of equipment and re-training), unfortunately.


 
An EJ is considered peripheral venous access although not all EMS agencies view it as such.  It should be considered before the IO because it is usually quick and can accomondate a large bore catheter. It can also be used and maintained as any other IV access until another can be obtained.


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## guardian528

sop said:


> How old are you? I'm sure you heard someone playing one of his songs. The last ones I remember were: Ghost, Blood is on The Dance Floor, You are not Alone, and Butterflies



Oh ya, I mean I've heard some of his songs being played, but just occasionally and just enough to know that it was Michael Jackson. What I'm saying is I was too young to actually know about or follow his career, know how big he was, or know what kind of impact he made.


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## Hockey




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## High Speed Chaser

Not sure if any one has posted this but some findings from the autopsy have been released. Apparently "The autopsy also revealed several broken ribs sustained after rescuers pumped the 50-year-old's chest to revive him." Also "Jackson's stomach was empty except for the partially dissolved pills he took before the painkiller injection that stopped his heart last Thursday, pathologists found."

*Source*


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## Ridryder911

High Speed Chaser said:


> Not sure if any one has posted this but some findings from the autopsy have been released. Apparently "The autopsy also revealed several broken ribs sustained after rescuers pumped the 50-year-old's chest to revive him." Also "Jackson's stomach was empty except for the partially dissolved pills he took before the painkiller injection that stopped his heart last Thursday, pathologists found."
> 
> *Source*



Amazing since the toxicology report has not been released yet and the B.S. reporters are speculating what occurred. Doubt it was broken ribs, more of broken cartilages. As well, again it reveals the press does no real investigation anymore. His skin condition has many side effects, and part of it is loss of hair in affected areas, as well many other s/e. 

No one knows if the additional analgesic really had anything to due with his death. Again, all speculation until the tox reports are released. 

R/r 911


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## daedalus

My speculation- The private physician came into Jackson's room, gave him his daily Demerol or other narcotic injection for his legitimate pain (pain is real, but the doctor's treatment is suspect). The doctor left the room so that Jackson could rest. Respiratory arrest followed and cardiac arrest shortly after as a sequela of the severe respiratory depression. Doctor comes back in at a later time to find Jackson unresponsive, and frantically demands that responding paramedics work an inviable patient because of his own guilt. 

Just speculation. That is all.


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## VentMedic

daedalus said:


> Doctor comes back in at a later time to find Jackson unresponsive, and frantically demands that responding paramedics work an inviable patient because of his own guilt.
> 
> Just speculation. That is all.


 
If a pt still has a pulse and the doctor is not going to sign a DNR order, you will have to work that patient.  Even if you know a lot about that patient's history, MJ was 50 years old and it would not be wise to refuse to work the patient if there were still signs of life.  This would also be true if the arrest was witnessed with CPR initiated immediately.


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## firecoins

I speculate Billy Idol, Debbie Gibson, George Michael, Cindy Lauper and Huey Lewis and the News were upset their comback tours didn't help them comeback.  They all conspired to get him.


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## Sasha

> Billy Idol, Debbie Gibson, George Michael, Cindy Lauper and Huey Lewis



Who?

10char


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## Scout

My thinking is Doc and MJ are colluding.

He had money trouble, so he fakes his death and both he and the doc go away to live life rich men. This is why the Doc made the paramedics transport to allow them to escape the home.


Its all an elaborate assurance scam...


Lets see if i can start a Elvis conspiracy


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## VentMedic

Here is a short list of Michael's humanitarian contributions and please don't say it was just to crawl in bed with a sick child needing a heart transplant.  Have a little respect for the man and for yourself.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14283749/Michael-Jacksons-Humanitarian-Efforts-19792003

If you have never worked with child who have long term and eventually fatal illnesses, you probably do not know how some of his contributions made a huge difference. 

Those who are quick to judge just don't know and probably speak with a limited knowledge of medicine or world issues.


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## Sasha

Amazing how all of that is overlooked when someone is brought up on child molestation charges and later found innocent.

I had no idea he was such a humanitarian, he was not very popular while I was growing up. What a sad, sad loss of such a giving man!


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## medic417

Sasha said:


> Amazing how all of that is overlooked when someone is brought up on child molestation charges and later found innocent.
> 
> I had no idea he was such a humanitarian, he was not very popular while I was growing up. What a sad, sad loss of such a giving man!



He as did Dale Dubin have a had many positive affects on this earth but they also did things that caused great harm, tarnishing their own reputations.


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## Sasha

medic417 said:


> He as did Dale Dubin have a had many positive affects on this earth but they also did things that caused great harm, tarnishing their own reputations.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153863,00.html

http://whoismichael.com/david-arvizo-statement.htm

http://whoismichael.com/gavin-arvizo.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4584531.stm

The accusers were gold digging revenge seekers who spit in the face of someone who paid for their child's cancer treatments when he finally saw he was being taken advantage of.


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## medic417

Sasha said:


> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153863,00.html
> 
> http://whoismichael.com/david-arvizo-statement.htm
> 
> http://whoismichael.com/gavin-arvizo.htm
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4584531.stm
> 
> The accusers were gold digging revenge seekers who spit in the face of someone who paid for their child's cancer treatments when he finally saw he was being taken advantage of.



What about the other accusers?


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## Sasha

medic417 said:


> What about the other accusers?



You mean the 1995 case that accepted a settlement and many believe to be liars??? Settlements don't necessairly mean guilt, they mean that one is taking the lesser of two evils. A trial that could tarnish his career forever or a measly sum to make it go away.

Michael Jackson was strange, but I don't believe he was a child molestor.


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## VentMedic

medic417 said:


> He as did Dale Dubin have a had many positive affects on this earth but they also did things that caused great harm, tarnishing their own reputations.


 
The difference is Dubin was found guilty, went to prison and lost his medical license despite his physician pals telling the jury it was a harmless infactuation with minors that could easily be treated and the drugs were not a big deal. 

Writing *a* book for profit that has been reprinted several times and purchased by thousands of EMT(P)s   is a little different than helping a child get his last dying wish.  From working in Peds for many years, I do know of some of the good work Michael has done. 

I  was around for the trials of both men, one a little more closer than the other, and  I do not take the justice system lightly when it comes to child molesters or predators of children of any type.


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## Sasha

Sasha said:


> You mean the 1995 case that accepted a settlement and many believe to be liars??? Settlements don't necessairly mean guilt, they mean that one is taking the lesser of two evils. A trial that could tarnish his career forever or a measly sum to make it go away.
> 
> Michael Jackson was strange, but I don't believe he was a child molestor.



Sorry just noticed my typo, it was in 1993. Also evidence suggests the boy Jordan Chandler was under the influence of the sedative amobarbital http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amobarbital when he 'confessed' that he was being molested to his father. AND his own mother didn't believe he was molested.


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## djmedic913

VentMedic said:


> If a pt still has a pulse and the doctor is not going to sign a DNR order, you will have to work that patient.  Even if you know a lot about that patient's history, MJ was 50 years old and it would not be wise to refuse to work the patient if there were still signs of life.



I agree completely.



VentMedic said:


> This would also be true if the arrest was witnessed with CPR initiated immediately.


I am not sure anymore with all the BS reports the news are putting out, but I thought he was down for a significant amount of time before the 911 call and medics on scene. IF this is the case and the pt was done for a significant amount of time, even if CPR was being done, in MY protocols, I can stop efforts at that time, obviously with asystole in 3 leads.

As I have said before, perception is everything. Since everyone in the world knows MJ, this obviously makes him a VERY high profile Pt. I can guarantee that if the scenario I presented was the truth and the medics called him without transport, those medics would be crucified in the media and actions from LAFD would have to be taken by pressure from everywhere (political, financial, etc). But since the medics transported and continued to work him long beyond any hopes of anything, the perception that everything humanly possible that could have be done, is what is saving them.

As sad as it is perception is many times more important than the medicine you _practice_ or your skills, or abilities. And we all do this when we "Never let them see us sweat"


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## Hockey

I woulda worked him


Imagine when those Medics retire and have Grandkids


You know sonny, I did CPR on Michael Jackson


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## djmedic913

Sasha said:


> Michael Jackson was strange, but I don't believe he was a child molestor.



So let us look at his for 1 more minute. So these parents who later accused MJ of molesting their children, allow their children to hang out with a grown man. And where were these parents when they were letting their kids sleep over MJ's house? How did they not think let my kid sleep with a 40 something y/o man so ok. or did they allow it to set him up.

In honesty did MJ have a childhood...NO!. at age 5 he was in the spot light. He was not allowed to play with other kids and have fun. it was work for him. So did this MAN grow up with normal values? with a normal life?...NO!
so if someone locked in a closet their whole life is released with the financial ability to do anything, what will he do...play as my kids do.
Many of MJ's handlers have even said he was emotionally a 12 y/o. he has not had normal relationships...his 1st crush was diana ross. His best friend was Liz Taylor. or a chimp.

Unfortunately, the miserable adults whose lives are miserable because they HAD to grow, no longer, just, PLAY. They lost their imaginations.

MJ, was having a sleep over. My 12 y/o son has sleep overs...and if we look at MJ as just another 12 y/o boy trapped in a grown body...it is the same thing...

Should have been supervision, sure. Did MJ molest these children?...NO! Not in the eyes of the law or courts. And since we are Americans, then this should be enough for us as Americans. The man was arrest and tried as a molester and was found "NOT GUILTY". As for him settling for money. He made it go away. But as a parent, is my child's innocence worth money, or justice? Personally if I TRULY believed MJ molested my child, I want JUSTICE. I would prefer it to be my brand of justice if something happened to my kid, but I would settle for legal justice if I had too.

Wow, that was lengthy...sorry about that...I was not a big fan. Thriller and the video were the thing back in the day. But his humanitarian efforts were beyond anything you or I could have done. I believe he even won the nobel peace prize....He deserves better than the BS we are saying....


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## 46Young

Good points. When you look at it that way, it's understandable why he was the way he was. I wasn't aware of his many good deeds. No good deed goes unpunished, I suppose. We're all probably going to hell for passing jokes about the departed(I'm not being sarcastic).


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## medic417

VentMedic said:


> Writing *a* book for profit that has been reprinted several times and purchased by thousands of EMT(P)s   .



And also purchased by thousands of more doctors, nurses, etc.  Can't put all his profits on the hands of Paramedics.


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## daedalus

It doesn't matter how much humanitarian work he did, he is a child molester. The kid accurately described his penis...


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## Sasha

daedalus said:


> It doesn't matter how much humanitarian work he did, he is a child molester. The kid accurately described his penis...



The kid did not positively describe his penis.

Hmm.. He has vitiligo. Maybe it's patchy or completely white! 

It was said there were some similarities. Seen one penis, seen 'em all.


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## Shishkabob

daedalus said:


> It doesn't matter how much humanitarian work he did, he is a child molester. The kid accurately described his penis...



Because each and every penis is unique in look and have absolutely NO similarities at all.


I've never been completely convinced that MJ did anything.  Possible?  Yup.  Probable?  Maybe.  But so is the parents fabricating things to get money.


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## ffemt8978

This one has run it's course.


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