# EMT-B says "I'm a medic"



## bstone (Nov 22, 2010)

Over the weekend I was at a friend's house having lunch. She invited some other folks over and we were chatting. One of them seemed to have an interest in medicine and I asked what his backround was. He said, "I've been a medic since 2006." This naturally perked my interest so I asked what he meant. He said "I've worked or volunteered on an ambulance as a medic since 2006. I provide emergency care to the sick and injured." I asked if he was an emt (not E.M.T. but emt, like in empty). He said, "Oh, yes I am an EMT." I then asked if he was a highly advanced one and he said, "Well, there are several levels and I am what's called an EMT-B."

I continued to play stupid. This was getting fun.

I asked what sort of things he did. He said "Oh, things like IVs, medications, backboards and collars for the spine, splinting for broken bones." I asked him how many IVs he started and he said, "Many many." I then asked him about the higher level of emts and he said, "There are also paramedics, called EMT-P. They do the cool stuff like IVs and sticking tubes in people throats." I asked him why he mentioned IVs for each and he admitted that he wasn't supposed to start IVs but because the medics ordered him to it was "ok". This fellow, mind you, works as an EMT-B in New Jersey. To the best of my knowledge there is no system in NJ that allows Basics to start IVs.

I then said, "When I taught Basic School I told my students they were never to start an IV, even if a medic ordered them do. A medic works under standing medical orders and he cannot delegate those to someone of a lower certification/license level."

The guy turned an interesting shade of white.

"I'm a National Registered EMT Intermediate of the 1985 standard" I said. 

The guy tried to change the subject, which I let him as I had made my point really clear. I sure hope he doesn't practice outside his scope ever again. I further hope that if he does he doesn't boast about it.


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## reaper (Nov 22, 2010)

I love it!  I think you handled it very eloquently!


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## JPINFV (Nov 22, 2010)

I absolutely love giving people just enough rope to hang themselves. Good work!



bstone said:


> A medic works under standing medical orders and he cannot delegate those to someone of a lower certification/license level."



To be pedantic (I also love being pedantic), EMTs work under standing medical orders as well and paramedics can deligate any intervention they want provided it's within the other provider's scope of practice. For example, a paramedic can't delegate an IV to an EMT, but can delegate starting supplemental oxygen or splinting.


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## Shishkabob (Nov 22, 2010)

Meh, I let people slide when they tell the general public that they are a medic, because medic is much more universal than EMT.   Just go out on the street and ask people if they know what an EMT is, then do the same for "medic".


Also, don't know about you but I sure can delegate tasks to people, up to their certification level.  Semanticss between your definition and mine?  Maybe.




But I too have put my fair share of EMTs back in their place when they were "absolutely sure" they could do advanced skills just because they possesed an ACLS card, so long as I "okayd it for them".  Sorry, get your Paramedic patch if you want to do what I can, until then enjoy watching.


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## Veneficus (Nov 22, 2010)

I wouldn't let it bother me too much.

As was pointed out, he is probably tired of trying to explain the difference between EMTs and medics. I can get behind that, because even I am tired of explaining it. The only people who seem to know or even care are the ones who have direct contact with EMS. 

If that is how he picks up girls, it is not the grandest of lies ever told to that end. 

As for basics starting IVs "unofficially," a lot of "unofficial stuff" happens in medicine until something goes wrong, even in the hospital. It depends on your people and how well they know, like, trust each other. 

Did this guy start an IV? Once? Twice? Many many? Does it matter? It is not some incredible skill possessed only by those select few who have "earned it."

It seems like every person in the military can start an IV and there are a few million drug abusers that are quite proficent at it as well.

It is not right he was doing it, it is definately out of his scope and therefore out of his standing orders and therefore a violation of medical direction. It could even cross over into practicing without a license. 

But let's face it. EMS has far more important things to worry about than who is starting IVs or calling themselves a medic.


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## EMSrush (Nov 22, 2010)

It's worth noting that he may not have actually started any IV's... he might have been talking it up a bit to impress you. :wub:


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## Cohn (Nov 22, 2010)

Im a EMT that can start IV so there!


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## Pittma (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm an EMT, but I just tell people I drive taxis.


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## EMSLaw (Nov 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> This fellow, mind you, works as an EMT-B in New Jersey. To the best of my knowledge there is no system in NJ that allows Basics to start IVs.



True, at least officially.  However, it's very common for EMT's to assist medics in setting up the IV, even if the medic does the actual stick (spiking the bag, flushing the line, getting everything set up).  And it's not unknown for a medic to let a basic he or she knows (especially if they're, say, a medic student) to start a line, even if it's contrary to protocol.


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## Aidey (Nov 22, 2010)

Some areas use different nomenclature too. Where I used to work there were very few Paramedics,  The crew titles were "Lead Medic", "Medic" and "Driver. All were usually some combination of EMT Bs and EMT Is. What title you got depended on what spot you signed up for. The difference between Lead medic and Medic was that the Lead Medic was the one in charge, they had gone through a check off process and all that. So if you said "I'm a medic" there was absolutely no assumption it meant Paramedic.


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## legion1202 (Nov 22, 2010)

I`m a EMT-B but i have started about 50 IV's.... But maybe being in medic school i`m allowed to do this =)


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## fortsmithman (Nov 22, 2010)

Pittma said:


> I'm an EMT, but I just tell people I drive taxis.



If your service is anything like mine then taxi driver is not far from the truth.  Also in industrial EMS such as the oil patch everyone is called a medic from the lowest to the highest level provider.  As well aren't army medics EMT-B and still called medics.


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## usalsfyre (Nov 22, 2010)

legion1202 said:


> I`m a EMT-B but i have started about 50 IV's.... But maybe being in medic school i`m allowed to do this =)



Different situation if it's during clinical rotations, your acting as a medic student. 

It's generally best to not ask or allow anyone to work out of scope.


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## MrBrown (Nov 22, 2010)

... and yet, nobody seems to care Brown calls himself a HEMS Doctor?

Buzz, buzz .... hello, yes this is delta alpha; ah huh, medical council, riteo, what do you guys want now, man can't you leave a guy alone?


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## fast65 (Nov 22, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> ... and yet, nobody seems to care Brown calls himself a HEMS Doctor?
> 
> Buzz, buzz .... hello, yes this is delta alpha; ah huh, medical council, riteo, what do you guys want now, man can't you leave a guy alone?



It's probably just because we know you're crazy, so we just don't want to hurt your feelings 

As for this guy calling himself a "medic", I don't see it as a huge deal, like was already mentioned, most people use the term "medic" interchangeably for any level EMT. The kid may have been talking up what he does to try and impress you, however, if he does routinely do skills out of his scope of practice then he's going to be the one that's endangering his career.


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## Themyst (Nov 22, 2010)

Well, three months ago, I was just your average person with zero medical knowledge (geez - I didn't even know what a 'sucking chest wound' was). And then, I thought a 'medic' was just about anyone who hopped out of that ambulance. That's probably what most people think.


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## terrible one (Nov 22, 2010)

I just say I am delivery driver


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## wyoskibum (Nov 22, 2010)

*Brown is my HERO!*



terrible one said:


> I just say I am delivery driver



LOL!  I tell people that I'm in "Transport & Delivery"! ;-D


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## Afflixion (Nov 22, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> As well aren't army medics EMT-B and still called medics.



Army medics are indeed medics in the truest sense of the word hence why civilian medics are PARAmedics...kind of the same way fire and LE operate on a PARAmilitary system... Also keep in mind just because an Army medic is only certified as a basic most (I won't say all) are extremely proficient and should be certified as Intermediates, the reason they are not is lack of official classroom instruction... Army medics learn 90% of their job OTJ as an Army medic I learned to perform numerous procedures I did not learn in paramedic school from my providers.


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## DarkStarr (Nov 22, 2010)

Im a Basic but the back of my (and everyone elses shirts) say 'MEDIC'.


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## EMSrush (Nov 22, 2010)

DarkStarr said:


> Im a Basic but the back of my (and everyone elses shirts) say 'MEDIC'.



That's interesting...


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## DarkStarr (Nov 22, 2010)

I think its just easier that way :shrug:


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## Bullets (Nov 22, 2010)

i dont know how many times ive been at standby, concerts, football games ect, standing my my ambalance and have been asked, "Are your a medic?" When i say no im an EMT i always get a stupid look, follwed by either "Whats the difference?" or "So you are a medic...?"

i have prior IV knowledge and some medics who know me well have directed me to start IV access on codes or similar calls, i think ive done maybe 3 or 4 as a basic, one was in the ER cause the nurse couldnt get it. I know its not in my scope, but its probably the most extreme example of doing things we aren't certified to do under that job description but have the knowledge to do. I always make sure the medics understand the situation before i attempt. 

Basics cant do Dex sticks in NJ, but we do that with Diabetics all the time.


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## Bubz628 (Nov 22, 2010)

We're all 'medics'... It's a label given to anyone working in the EMS field.


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## medic417 (Nov 22, 2010)

Actually medic was a military term.  The civilian world then adopted it.  Most in the know in EMS saved it for Paramedics only.  But some services use it for all levels assigning call numbers as medic###  or something similar.  As such now it is just another meaningless title much like ambulance driver.


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## 18G (Nov 22, 2010)

In these parts of the woods... an EMT is an EMT and a Paramedic is a "Medic". EMT's are not called medics.


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## slloth (Nov 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> "I'm a National Registered EMT Intermediate of the 1985 standard" I said.



You're awesome.  You showed him


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## C.T.E.M.R. (Nov 22, 2010)

Anyone else notice how alot of "Whackers" like to talk greater about themselves than they actually are. Most people i know call me ant EMT bad sadly i am not yet, I will constantly correct people. I tell a lot of people the differences, because like its been said the general public has no clue about the way ems works. i would never call my self a medic, YOu actual medics have lots more responsibility than i do. So to you i say thanks as well as to all EMT's and other certs. And way to go putting him in his place, he must have been ridiculously mad. But he deserved IT! THANKS!!!!


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## medic417 (Nov 22, 2010)

slloth said:


> You're awesome.  You showed him



Said with sarcasm dripping from the corners of his mouth.


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## Veneficus (Nov 22, 2010)

C.T.E.M.R. said:


> Anyone else notice how alot of "Whackers" like to talk greater about themselves than they actually are. Most people i know call me ant EMT bad sadly i am not yet, I will constantly correct people. I tell a lot of people the differences, because like its been said the general public has no clue about the way ems works. i would never call my self a medic, YOu actual medics have lots more responsibility than i do. So to you i say thanks as well as to all EMT's and other certs. And way to go putting him in his place, he must have been ridiculously mad. But he deserved IT! THANKS!!!!



At what point does somebody who is proud of what they do become a "whacker?"

I think you will eventually get really tired of explaining ems to non ems folks.

No offense intended, but an EMT-I isn't that much farther up the food chain than EMT-B. Infact I have several times in the past and still advocate eliminating one or the other.


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## C.T.E.M.R. (Nov 22, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> At what point does somebody who is proud of what they do become a "whacker?"
> 
> *most whackers dont realize they are. but they get big heads and think the are gods gift to earth.
> *
> ...


 *I get you point here my cert ant EMT-b are almost identical, actually its what a CT EMT-b used to be every thing just moved up. Certs should just start at basic, i really dont like how limited i am at my level currently*


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## Pittma (Nov 22, 2010)

He IS out of his scope and I'm glad you corrected that too. That could be dangerous and hopefully he doesn't do it again...however I think it would be a good idea if there was a way to be an EMT-B who can start IV's via some sort of course or cert, as well as a course for ECG etc etc. For example, you can get your PALS but that doesn't extend your scope of practice, but it would be nice for guys like me who are really enthusiastic to learn new things could have sort of a variable scope of practice based on what courses they have. Imagine just having one level of EMT, and then adding on appropriate certs... I know the medic course is all in one, but what if you dont have time for an entire year and clinicals? You could learn all the physiology of KVO IV's, then add on say, pharmacology when you can, etc. I think it would increase quality of EMT's too over time, because those that don't have time or physical ability to do an entire medic course can help out patients to the full extent they are able to as time goes on?


TL;DR (too long, didn't read), the current system is dumb and too restrictive of those that have the smarts and the talent to use all of the interventions currently available, thereby limiting, in my opinion. 

But, what do I know? Just a thought.


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## bstone (Nov 22, 2010)

Pittma said:


> He IS out of his scope and I'm glad you corrected that too. That could be dangerous and hopefully he doesn't do it again...however I think it would be a good idea if there was a way to be an EMT-B who can start IV's via some sort of course or cert, as well as a course for ECG etc etc. ....SNIP



There is. It's called EMT-Intermediate (aka Advanced EMT).


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## lampnyter (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm and EMT and nobody has any idea what that is so im always explaining the difference between a paramedic and a EMT. But like everyone around here says, when we call in for backup we want a Paramedic, not a medic lol.


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## rwik123 (Nov 22, 2010)

i often tell people i'm an emt, and they say what?? then i reply, like a paramedic...and then they understand

i never declare myself a medic, and i agree he was just trying to show off. glad you put him in his place!


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## Scott33 (Nov 22, 2010)

bstone.

As an advanced provider, have you ever likened yourself to, or called yourself a paramedic in conversation?

I have heard this a lot amongst our EMT-CCs and to be honest, I have mixed opinions about it.


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## Shishkabob (Nov 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> There is. It's called Paramedic




Fixed.


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## Pittma (Nov 22, 2010)

Well, EMT-I's are pretty much phased out, Massachusetts is the only one with an EMT-I left from what I hear. I should move to another state, lol. I need to find the time to go to medic school, but with working on my undergrad I can't...I guess my idea of a stepwise process would only work for me.


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## the_negro_puppy (Nov 22, 2010)

I am a student paramedic, if people i ask I tell them i am a student paramedic


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## bstone (Nov 22, 2010)

Scott33 said:


> bstone.
> 
> As an advanced provider, have you ever likened yourself to, or called yourself a paramedic in conversation?
> 
> I have heard this a lot amongst our EMT-CCs and to be honest, I have mixed opinions about it.



Never, ever called myself a paramedic. Always call myself "an EMT".


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## bstone (Nov 22, 2010)

Pittma said:


> Well, EMT-I's are pretty much phased out, Massachusetts is the only one with an EMT-I left from what I hear. I should move to another state, lol. I need to find the time to go to medic school, but with working on my undergrad I can't...I guess my idea of a stepwise process would only work for me.



You have heard very, very wrong.


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## Afflixion (Nov 22, 2010)

You think its bad trying to explain the difference between a EMT and a paramedic, try telling a patient "I'm a PA student" or "I'm a physician's assistant student" they almost always think your a doctor or your a CNA... more people are keen as to paramedics and EMTs (medics and ambulance drivers! haha) then PA's the average layman has no idea.


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## TraprMike (Nov 22, 2010)

Bubz628 said:


> We're all 'medics'... It's a label given to anyone working in the EMS field.




this ^^^

then if they question or want more info,, then try to explain the diff between the types.. but easier to just say, yup, Im a medic.


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## RUGBY66X (Nov 23, 2010)

Afflixion said:


> You think its bad trying to explain the difference between a EMT and a paramedic, try telling a patient "I'm a PA student" or "I'm a physician's assistant student" they almost always think your a doctor or your a CNA... more people are keen as to paramedics and EMTs (medics and ambulance drivers! haha) then PA's the average layman has no idea.



ya thats a mouth full. when im on clinicals and i go into a pt's room in the er i always say im a medic student and they always say your not dressed like the other doctors or something to that extent. they think when i say medic student that im in "medical school" instead of PARAmedic school. but it is a lot of fun telling people im a student as im about to stick them with an IV

It's even more fun telling people that i dont work in EMS and that im a butcher haha that gets some funny looks


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## Aprz (Nov 23, 2010)

My friends and family can never get it right. They would tell people I am an EMT, Paramedic, Nurse, and Doctor. I would always feel stupid because then I would overthink what other people were thinking "Oh, he probably brags to them that hes is so and so, and is just lying to them", which is what I imagined what they were thinking cause that's what I would be thinking. Finally when I got certified as an EMT, my dad started telling people I am an EMT student. <_< They'll never get it right.


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## bstone (Nov 23, 2010)

True, but you know what your cert level is and you wouldn't intentionally misrepresent yourself, right? At least you (the abstract you, not you individually) wouldn't admit to practicing way outside your scope to a stranger.


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## 18G (Nov 23, 2010)

Pittma said:


> Well, EMT-I's are pretty much phased out, Massachusetts is the only one with an EMT-I left from what I hear. I should move to another state, lol. I need to find the time to go to medic school, but with working on my undergrad I can't...I guess my idea of a stepwise process would only work for me.



Maryland has EMT-I's and they use them pretty extensively. In the one MD county I am familiar with EMT-I's are called "Medics" and ALS units are designated as Paramedic or Medic (EMT-I).

And Pennsylvania just created a new provider level called Advanced EMT.. from the National Scope of Practice Model.


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## Pittma (Nov 23, 2010)

bstone said:


> You have heard very, very wrong.



Massachusetts is the only state with an EMT-I curriculum currently, as all other states have phased it out in favor of the new EMT-A certification, meaning that yes, there is an EMT-I certification, but outside of Massachusetts, it is meaningless.

Edit: Currently, other states do have EMT-I's, but according to ProEMS Center for Medics it is being phased out.


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## Shishkabob (Nov 23, 2010)

You are still mistaken.


I can point to a handful of schools in just the Dallas area that teach EMT-I/85 , and a couple of employers in the same area who hire EMT-I minimum.



Yes, many / most will be moving to the AEMT level, but that doesn't mean MA is the last state with Intermediates.


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## Pittma (Nov 23, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Yes, many / most will be moving to the AEMT level, but that doesn't mean MA is the last state with Intermediates.



Ok. Well, I guess my point is, if you've never lived in MA, you should be warned that we don't exactly like to make things easy, and common sense isn't exactly something OEMS or the DOT (or any organization in the state) has, and I can nearly guarantee you we will be behind the rest of the country as far as certifications.

Edit: the above post makes me look kinda 'tude-ey, so I'm gonna go ahead and add a smiley face in here.


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## Pittma (Nov 23, 2010)

Also, found this on the all-powerful Wikipedia machine. Montana allows for the system that I was speaking about:  

Montana

(endorsements are listed below each level are optional and can be achieved in any order and combination)

    * EMT-First Responder
          o Immbolization
          o Monitoring
          o Ambulance
    * EMT-Basic*
          o Airway
          o Monitoring
          o IV and IO initiation
          o IV and IO maintenance
          o Endotracheal intubation
          o Medication
    * EMT-Intermediate
          o Needle decompression/surgical airway
          o Immunizations
          o Drips and pumps
          o 12 lead transmit
    * EMT-Paramedic*
          o 12 lead interpretation
          o Medications
          o Fibrinolytic with 12 lead interpretation
          o Critical Care Transport


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## JPINFV (Nov 23, 2010)

...and if you don't believe me about the endorsements, follow the source. I really should go through and redo it from scratch, but I stopped caring.


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## 18G (Nov 23, 2010)

Maryland has an active EMT-I program. I know of an EMT-I class that just finished up and tested NREMT just two or three months ago. Rumor has it Maryland is gonna keep their Intermediate level which they call "Cardiac Rescue Technician" or CRT.


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## Hal9000 (Nov 23, 2010)

Pittma said:


> Also, found this on the all-powerful Wikipedia machine. Montana allows for the system that I was speaking about:
> 
> Montana
> 
> ...



Whether or not our system saves lives, I don't know.  However, I do know that there is very little oversight.  In fact, I know a few EMT-Bs that have an ET endorsement and have never even seen one in real life.  Great success!


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## TraprMike (Nov 23, 2010)

TraprMike said:


> this ^^^
> 
> then if they question or want more info,, then try to explain the diff between the types.. but easier to just say, yup, Im a medic.



just tonight at our local meeting, our paramedics gave a presentaion on MCI and whatnot's.. 

"you as Medics, and us as paramedics.. blah, blah,"... even our paramedics refer to EMT-B's as medics.. 
so,, there you have it,,


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## EMS49393 (Nov 24, 2010)

18G said:


> Maryland has an active EMT-I program. I know of an EMT-I class that just finished up and tested NREMT just two or three months ago. Rumor has it Maryland is gonna keep their Intermediate level which they call "Cardiac Rescue Technician" or CRT.



As a native Marylander, they will likely keep the EMT-I for a few reasons, the biggest being Baltimore City Fire Department.  They have 10 times the I's than P's, and since the I's in MD can do nearly everything a P can do (they just have more Mother May I) they are a cheaper and easier.  They have a lot of county's that run the EMT-I program, Baltimore, Carroll, Howard, and the city, to name a few.  However, Maryland has gotten away from paramedic bridge courses and now it's almost impossible to go to paramedic school without going through the community college or UMBC, which is actually great because they come out with a great deal more education.  They are required to take A&P, math, English, etc.  

They do call the I's "medics" and they are dispatched as such in most counties.  My county will dispatch a ambulance as either "ambulance 123," "IV 123," "medic 123," or "paramedic 123" based on the call information.  

Most of the I's I have met always refer to themselves as "paramedics" especially my friends in Baltimore City.  It used to drive me crazy as a full paramedic.  Now I have better things to drive me crazy and I don't worry about it so much.  

There will be whackers any where you go.  I've noticed that the people that have all the stories and talk about being this or that are generally the least educated people in the group.  My friends know I'm a paramedic.  If someone asks me what I do for a living, I'll tell them, but I rarely volunteer the information.  I hate to tell war stories, and I don't really have any "I'm so awesome I did this on a call" stories either.  If I tell a story about a call it's generally to another paramedic, often one with more experience, and it's usually because I need an opinion and I'm trying to learn from them.  I discuss calls quite often with my husband because he's been a medic four years long than I have.  

Most people I know have pretty high BS detectors and will sniff out a BS artist from a mile away.  I wouldn't worry about people that have to toot their own horn too much.  In fact, I'd probably feel sorry for them.  It's a shame to have to construct a fantasy to make oneself feel important.  

One thing I wouldn't have done, and have never done, is spout off the way you did about what I am in an attempt to discredit someone else.  It can backfire and actually make you look like the tool.


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## MrsFlightMedic (Nov 24, 2010)

I see a lot of feathers being ruffled by this.  Why?  Is your self esteem and ego's so deflated by one person's possible fabrication?  Seriously.... ask yourself why this is even YOUR problem???   I am proud to be an EMT basic, and married to a Flight Paramedic who has every letter behind his name including a Masters Degree, soon to be pursuing his doctorate.  He and I laughed at all the comments by Advanced EMT's and Paramedics on here.  Seriously.... was it really worth putting him in his place, are you his medical director?  When my hubby and I have come across an accident or someone in medical distress when we are off duty, he doesn't explain he is a Flight, Trauma, Remote, Tactical, Critical Care paramedic, with pals, ACLS, etc, he says my wife and I are MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS would you like some assistance?  He doesn't refer to me as a basic, nor does he laud his hard earned credentials.  If we are at a social gathering and someone pipes in and says they are a "medic" we don't scrutinize them to make them prove their point.  Obviously if someone feels the need to push that nomer out there, they want some kind of recognition.  Lord knows the public does not give EMS enough.  Firefighters and Police Officers are usually lauded a lot more than EMS workers are.  Prime example is the 9/11 aftermath.   A lot of good EMS workers lost their lives, yet the public did not do the fanfare and hoopla over them as they did NYPD's and NYFD's finest got.  I am not trying to downplay what they did, by any means, and no disrespect.  But my point is, we are far more worse things to get worked up about than whether someone calls themselves a medic.  My hubby and I both joke around and call eachother "Ditch Doctors" although we are not physicians.  So is someone going to blast me for calling myself a "doctor".  Bring it on lol....my skin is thicker than an elephants hide.  I just felt like this guy was definitely feeling like he needed some recognition for whatever reason and wanted to feel important.  Instead of being a "nice" guy to him, to be honest you sounded like more of a moron than he did by making him look bad in front of people.  There is nothing worse than someone who likes and takes pleasure in making someone else look bad in front of others.  All I can say is...maybe next time instead of worrying about your own ego, find out why this guy is obviously feeling like he needs to be center of attention.  I am willing to bet he has something going on in his life that he was asking for help. But sometimes as EMS providers we get so jaded, we forget that our own brothers and sisters in EMS can cry for help.    Just some food for thought.  I will go back to lurking now.  Just wanted to share how I felt after reading all 6 pages of this.  Also thank you to all those who stood up for the Basic.  At least you recognized there was more than just someone "boasting".


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

Putting him in his place would be my dressing him down, saying things like "you are NOT a medic, you are practicing way outside your scope in violation of civil and criminal laws, you are endangering your patients and are an embarrassment to the EMS profession."

Instead I told him in a very vauge way how I taught my Basic students a few years back. Very subtle, very very mild. No accusations, no threats, no grand statements of being an embarrassment.

In fact, the way I handled it I think was as light and low key as it could get.


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## brentoli (Nov 24, 2010)

Pittma said:


> Massachusetts is the only state with an EMT-I curriculum currently, as all other states have phased it out in favor of the new EMT-A certification, meaning that yes, there is an EMT-I certification, but outside of Massachusetts, it is meaningless.
> 
> Edit: Currently, other states do have EMT-I's, but according to ProEMS Center for Medics it is being phased out.



Really? I just went to a Commission meeting last week here in Indiana, where they decided not to suspend the EMT-I curriculum until they make a decision on the national SOP.


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

brentoli said:


> Really? I just went to a Commission meeting last week here in Indiana, where they decided not to suspend the EMT-I curriculum until they make a decision on the national SOP.



Pittma is correct.


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 24, 2010)

Nevada uses I's.


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

NVRob said:


> Nevada uses I's.



Only MA uses Is.


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## JPINFV (Nov 24, 2010)

Source required that only MA uses intermediates. 
Reason required on why it matters.
Also, isn't any level between EMT and paramedic an intermediate level, regardless of the specific nomenclature used?
Bstone, also, how can you be an EMT-I in NH if only MA uses intermediates?


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## Shishkabob (Nov 24, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Source required that only MA uses intermediates.
> Reason required on why it matters.
> Also, isn't any level between EMT and paramedic an intermediate level, regardless of the specific nomenclature used?
> Bstone, also, how can you be an EMT-I in NH if only MA uses intermediates?



I'm quite sure he's being facetious.


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Source required that only MA uses intermediates.
> Reason required on why it matters.
> Also, isn't any level between EMT and paramedic an intermediate level, regardless of the specific nomenclature used?
> Bstone, also, how can you be an EMT-I in NH if only MA uses intermediates?



I guess that NH EMT-Intermediate license that says "EMT-Intermediate" is wrong. I guess.


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## medic417 (Nov 24, 2010)

bstone said:


> Only MA uses Is.



M*i*ss*i*ss*i*pp*i* has a bunch of I's.  :wacko:


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## C.T.E.M.R. (Nov 24, 2010)

medic417 said:


> m*i*ss*i*ss*i*pp*i* has a bunch of i's.  :wacko:



haha lol,


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## Pittma (Nov 24, 2010)

bstone said:


> Only MA uses Is.



I get it, I was wrong. Do you train in Cambridge as a Medic? If so, I got that information from YOUR instructor.


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## Pittma (Nov 24, 2010)

bstone said:


> Pittma is correct.



Bstone, putting "people in their place" Since the start of this thread about how awesome he is


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

Pittma said:


> I get it, I was wrong. Do you train in Cambridge as a Medic? If so, I got that information from YOUR instructor.



I am not certified/licensed in MA. If I was I would put that in my signature. I have never taken an EMS class in MA. I took my Basic in 2002 in Illinois and my Intermediate in 2006 in Manchester, NH. I don't know any of the EMS instructors in Cambridge/Boston.


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## Aidey (Nov 24, 2010)

MrsFlightMedic said:


> I see a lot of feathers being ruffled by this.  Why?  Is your self esteem and ego's so deflated by one person's possible fabrication?  Seriously.... ask yourself why this is even YOUR problem???   I am proud to be an EMT basic, and married to a Flight Paramedic who has every letter behind his name including a Masters Degree, soon to be pursuing his doctorate.  He and I laughed at all the comments by Advanced EMT's and Paramedics on here.  Seriously.... was it really worth putting him in his place, are you his medical director?  When my hubby and I have come across an accident or someone in medical distress when we are off duty, he doesn't explain he is a Flight, Trauma, Remote, Tactical, Critical Care paramedic, with pals, ACLS, etc, he says my wife and I are MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS would you like some assistance?  He doesn't refer to me as a basic, nor does he laud his hard earned credentials.  If we are at a social gathering and someone pipes in and says they are a "medic" we don't scrutinize them to make them prove their point.  Obviously if someone feels the need to push that nomer out there, they want some kind of recognition.  Lord knows the public does not give EMS enough.  Firefighters and Police Officers are usually lauded a lot more than EMS workers are.  Prime example is the 9/11 aftermath.   A lot of good EMS workers lost their lives, yet the public did not do the fanfare and hoopla over them as they did NYPD's and NYFD's finest got.  I am not trying to downplay what they did, by any means, and no disrespect.  But my point is, we are far more worse things to get worked up about than whether someone calls themselves a medic.  My hubby and I both joke around and call eachother "Ditch Doctors" although we are not physicians.  So is someone going to blast me for calling myself a "doctor".  Bring it on lol....my skin is thicker than an elephants hide.  I just felt like this guy was definitely feeling like he needed some recognition for whatever reason and wanted to feel important.  Instead of being a "nice" guy to him, to be honest you sounded like more of a moron than he did by making him look bad in front of people.  There is nothing worse than someone who likes and takes pleasure in making someone else look bad in front of others.  All I can say is...maybe next time instead of worrying about your own ego, find out why this guy is obviously feeling like he needs to be center of attention.  I am willing to bet he has something going on in his life that he was asking for help. But sometimes as EMS providers we get so jaded, we forget that our own brothers and sisters in EMS can cry for help.    Just some food for thought.  I will go back to lurking now.  Just wanted to share how I felt after reading all 6 pages of this.  Also thank you to all those who stood up for the Basic.  At least you recognized there was more than just someone "boasting".



Ok, I'll bite.

In at least 2 states it is illegal for a medical professional to pass themselves off as a higher level of care. An EMT can not wear a patch that says "Paramedic" or "Intermediate" on it unless that is their official state certified level. When rendering care they can not claim to be anything but an EMT. 

Yes, I admit that sometimes it is easier to just generalize. But the fact is there is a difference. I don't tell people I'm a nurse just to make explaining what I do easier. There is a reason that the NREMT is taking EMT out from in front of Paramedic.


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## MrsFlightMedic (Nov 24, 2010)

Sooo  bstone is actually an EMT basic as that is the level he is operating at. 
If you are working in Chicago as an EMT B, then it definitely was not your place to "dress him down".  Seriously did he deflate your ego that bad?  Doing all those transports wearing you down so you need to tear someone else down?  Seriously, your kind are the ones that give EMS a black eye.  The ones with a chip on their shoulder that have something to "prove".  OooOoooo you are a Basic Instructor.  Boy that really gives you the right to set him right.  But who am I to call you out?  I am just a "lowly" basic who chose not to go to the Paramedic level because I decided I would rather support my husband to achieve that goal.  To be honest, the loser in all this is you.  You had an opportunity to help a fellow EMS member out but chose to take a low road rather than a high road.  Guess the joke is on you eh?


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## Bullets (Nov 24, 2010)

Aidey said:


> Ok, I'll bite.
> 
> In at least 2 states it is illegal for a medical professional to pass themselves off as a higher level of care. An EMT can not wear a patch that says "Paramedic" or "Intermediate" on it unless that is their official state certified level. When rendering care they can not claim to be anything but an EMT.
> 
> Yes, I admit that sometimes it is easier to just generalize. But the fact is there is a difference. I don't tell people I'm a nurse just to make explaining what I do easier. There is a reason that the NREMT is taking EMT out from in front of Paramedic.



I don't think saying your a medic is misrepresenting yourself. If you said your a paramedic then yes, but just medic is a general term for amy field medical provider


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## JPINFV (Nov 24, 2010)

MrsFlightMedic said:


> Sooo  bstone is actually an EMT basic as that is the level he is operating at.
> If you are working in Chicago as an EMT B, then it definitely was not your place to "dress him down".  Seriously did he deflate your ego that bad?  Doing all those transports wearing you down so you need to tear someone else down?  Seriously, your kind are the ones that give EMS a black eye.  The ones with a chip on their shoulder that have something to "prove".  OooOoooo you are a Basic Instructor.  Boy that really gives you the right to set him right.  But who am I to call you out?  I am just a "lowly" basic who chose not to go to the Paramedic level because I decided I would rather support my husband to achieve that goal.  To be honest, the loser in all this is you.  You had an opportunity to help a fellow EMS member out but chose to take a low road rather than a high road.  Guess the joke is on you eh?



If someone is operating out of their scope of practice, don't EMS providers, as supposed health care professionals, bear some responsibility to protect the public? Similarly, don't we have a responsibility to represent us as what we really are? When will EMS grow up and begin to police their own instead of being technicians who think that anything they can get away with is perfectly fine?


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## Veneficus (Nov 24, 2010)

Why are there 8 pages of response to this?

Do we have nothing more important or even interesting to talk about?


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## MrBrown (Nov 24, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> Do we have nothing more ... interesting to talk about?



Mrs Brown is playing WOW .... its going to be a while so Brown attempting to kill time


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## Bullets (Nov 24, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> If someone is operating out of their scope of practice, don't EMS providers, as supposed health care professionals, bear some responsibility to protect the public? Similarly, don't we have a responsibility to represent us as what we really are? When will EMS grow up and begin to police their own instead of being technicians who think that anything they can get away with is perfectly fine?



there is a big difference between acting out of your scope and saying your a medic in a casual conversation.

Here is a guy who is feeling good for taking another brother to task for using a generic term accepted by most providers. Instead of berating the guy in public you deal with it privately like the other professional services do


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## brentoli (Nov 24, 2010)

Bullets said:


> there is a big difference between acting out of your scope and saying your a medic in a casual conversation.
> 
> Here is a guy who is feeling good for taking another brother to task for using a generic term accepted by most providers. Instead of berating the guy in public you deal with it privately like the other professional services do



Except, as the casual conversation was relayed to us, the guy admitted to acting out of his scope.


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## Bullets (Nov 24, 2010)

brentoli said:


> Except, as the casual conversation was relayed to us, the guy admitted to acting out of his scope.



Unless I saw him acting out of scope, I'm not saying anything to another provider, that's a conflict I don't want our need,


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## TraprMike (Nov 24, 2010)

pass the popcorn please


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## Bullets (Nov 24, 2010)

TraprMike said:


> pass the popcorn please



Would you like salt and butter on that? Can I interest you in some snow caps?


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## TraprMike (Nov 24, 2010)

hmm.. snowcaps,, that brings back memories... 
now,, back to the show...


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

MrsFlightMedic said:


> Sooo  bstone is actually an EMT basic as that is the level he is operating at.


No, I work on an ALS unit with a paramedic and I act as the EMT-I/AEMT.



> If you are working in Chicago as an EMT B,


Huh? I went to EMT school in 2002 in Chicago. I haven't lived there since 2004, so I am not sure how I am working as a Basic in Chicago.



> then it definitely was not your place to "dress him down".


I didn't dress him down. In a very subtle way I suggested that it's not good to work beyond your scope. 



> Seriously did he deflate your ego that bad?  Doing all those transports wearing you down so you need to tear someone else down?  Seriously, your kind are the ones that give EMS a black eye.


My ego is perfectly in tact and he didn't deflate it in any way. Notice how I didn't dress him down, didn't yell at him, didn't accuse him of a crime- none of that. I simply said how when I taught Basic school that I told my students to never act beyond their scope of practice, even if ordered to do so by a medic. That's all.



> The ones with a chip on their shoulder that have something to "prove".  OooOoooo you are a Basic Instructor.  Boy that really gives you the right to set him right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

Bullets said:


> there is a big difference between acting out of your scope and saying your a medic in a casual conversation.


This kid did both. Saying he's a medic isn't so bad (tho illegal in many states, including MA) but operating beyond his scope is dangerous, illegal, unethical, etc.




> Here is a guy who is feeling good for taking another brother to task for using a generic term accepted by most providers. Instead of berating the guy in public you deal with it privately like the other professional services do



Again, I didn't call him out on self-identifying as a medic.


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## 18G (Nov 24, 2010)

It sounds like bstone was subtle in her approach. I know the type she was talking to... they like to come off as something they are not and to me its kinda annoying. I also like to have fun with these types of people and play dumb just for the entertainment value.

I can see myself letting this person talk for about 20mins and than throw in something pertaining to being a Paramedic... just to see the reaction. 

People need to calm down!


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## bstone (Nov 24, 2010)

18G said:


> It sounds like bstone was subtle in her approach. I know the type she was talking to... they like to come off as something they are not and to me its kinda annoying. I also like to have fun with these types of people and play dumb just for the entertainment value.
> 
> I can see myself letting this person talk for about 20mins and than throw in something pertaining to being a Paramedic... just to see the reaction.
> 
> People need to calm down!



I think you and I would get along very well.

::whisper:: I'm a guy.


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## 18G (Nov 24, 2010)

bstone said:


> I think you and I would get along very well.
> 
> ::whisper:: I'm a guy.



For some reason I was thinking you were female.... my bad... ha ha. sorry 'bout that.


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## Pittma (Nov 24, 2010)

The moral of this story seems to be check yo self before you wreck yo self. The OP has a very good point in that this EMT shouldn't have been out of his scope of practice. Period, the end. You can't disagree with that. The original post may have looked to be like an "egotistical" write-up, but the tone of the post can be misread. Put it this way, I don't go around telling people what they should and shouldn't do, but in that same respect, I want someone to flame me when I screw up- that's how I learn, and I guess I'd be appreciative of it in the long run. And if I see someone else who could use a lesson, I guess I'd be willing to do the same if I could.


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## DarkStarr (Nov 24, 2010)

Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Basic
Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Intermediate
Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Paramedic

:shrug:


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## TraprMike (Nov 24, 2010)

*10 pages and a lock.. again.*

insert dead horse pic..


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## Shishkabob (Nov 24, 2010)

DarkStarr said:


> Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Basic
> Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Intermediate
> Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Paramedic
> 
> :shrug:



So a doctor is a Phyc and a critical care nurse is a car?


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## fortsmithman (Nov 25, 2010)

Linuss said:


> So a doctor is a Phyc and a critical care nurse is a car?



Actually a MD would be a Phys.


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## fortsmithman (Nov 25, 2010)

DarkStarr said:


> Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Basic
> Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Intermediate
> Emergency '*MEDIC*'al Technician - Paramedic
> 
> :shrug:



I thought in the USA that it was just Paramedic now and that they didn't have EMT before their title.


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## Aidey (Nov 25, 2010)

That takes affect in 2013 i think.


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## DarkStarr (Nov 25, 2010)

just feeding the fire.  i dont really care what my shirt says i aint doin crap outside my scope.


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## MrsFlightMedic (Nov 25, 2010)

I see bstone changed his location after I called him out on being a basic.  Makes you wonder what else he has been fibbing about.  To be honest, makes you think that maybe the original post was a fabrication he made up just to cause some excitement in here lol.  
The more I reread the original post the more it does seem fabricated.  Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## bstone (Nov 25, 2010)

MrsFlightMedic said:


> I see bstone changed his location after I called him out on being a basic.


My NREMT Intermediate certification number is I0701654. Please look me up.

I changed my location because I joined this website when I was still living in Chicago in the summers and never bothered to update it. Please forgive me for this horrible oversight.



> Makes you wonder what else he has been fibbing about.


I don't even know how to respond to this. Calling me a liar is not a small accusation, but I'll ignore it.



> To be honest, makes you think that maybe the original post was a fabrication he made up just to cause some excitement in here lol.
> The more I reread the original post the more it does seem fabricated.  Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


You're sounding hysterical.


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## Indy (Nov 25, 2010)

Disregard


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## Chimpie (Nov 25, 2010)

Well, this thread was a good subject until it was taken way off topic.


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