# Wheelchair Vans



## trauma1534 (Nov 28, 2006)

I was just wondering how many people here work for an agency that has wheelchair vans, and what are your though's on certified people having to run wheelchair calls.


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## jeepmedic (Nov 28, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> I was just wondering how many people here work for an agency that has wheelchair vans, and what are your though's on certified people having to run wheelchair calls.




I didn't mind it. Pay me to ride around in a W/C and have fun with for the most part are Pts. that only are going to a Dr. Appt. No stress. I used to think it was a good break.


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## FFEMT1764 (Nov 28, 2006)

I think w/c vans should have EMT's or higher on them, after all, what if the person just going to the doc for a checkup crashes...plus as jeep said it would be a nice break for some of us who run a lot of calls in a shift.


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## MMiz (Nov 28, 2006)

Our service found that it wasn't profitable to run wheelchair vans.  At the time they were staffed by a CPR/First Aid trained individual.

I see no need or reason to have them staffed by higher trained individuals.  If EMS was needed then EMS was called.  I see the wheelchair van as a taxi service for people in wheelchairs... nothing more.


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## FFEMT1764 (Nov 28, 2006)

Matt, the trouble with that is here all the w/c vans are operated by rescue squads or private EMS providers.  And here if you are a licensed EMS service running w/c van and someone has a bad outcome, then you can (and prolly will be) sued.  And the way jurors are these days they might left the patients family win a bunch of money!


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## trauma1534 (Nov 28, 2006)

MMiz said:


> Our service found that it wasn't profitable to run wheelchair vans.  At the time they were staffed by a CPR/First Aid trained individual.
> 
> I see no need or reason to have them staffed by higher trained individuals.  If EMS was needed then EMS was called.  I see the wheelchair van as a taxi service for people in wheelchairs... nothing more.



I totally agree!  Why break up a perfectly good staffed truck to run wheelchairs!  What a waist!  As I recall, when we were all going through classes for EMS, weather it was Basic, or whatever, we did not put in all that time and studying to get stuck on a wheelchair van.

Two of the agencies I used to work for was famous for breaking up a perfectly good ALS staffed truck to run wheelchairs.  One of those angencies used to run a Paramedic on the Wheelchair Van all day!


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## MMiz (Nov 28, 2006)

My service used to put Paramedics on the wheelchair vans all the time.  Our wheelchair van drivers even made a few dollars more an hour than EMT-Bs.

I don't understand why we stopped offering the service, only because I think it's good to offer hospitals and nursing homes a one-stop source for transportation, but it's been more than a year since 'ole wheelie made the rounds.


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## prizonmedik (Nov 28, 2006)

I like the WCV.  Same money, Less Stress.  I ride around listenting to radio.........


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## yowzer (Nov 28, 2006)

We have a couple. You don't have to be an EMT to drive 'em. As many companies providing the service as there are here, doing so would be impossible.


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## KEVD18 (Nov 28, 2006)

have driven the wcv as a full time job, then as ot after getting my basic. two completely different worlds:

pre basic:"this sucks. all day i drive around and pick up these people and run them back and forth to the doctors or dialysis. back and forth all day. paperwork. i have nobody to talk to. i hate this job"

post basic: i love this! same money less work. i dont actually have to pick these people up, i have a hydraulic ramp to do that. paperwork couldnt be simpler. all i ahve to do is dr appts and dialysis. no mva's no trauma no blood. i dont have to talk to anybody. i love this job!!!!!"


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## Airwaygoddess (Nov 29, 2006)

AMR has a W/C vans for the patients that need dr. appointments, dialysis runs. If a patient should run into trouble i.e. post dialysis springs a leak, The drivers can call for a 911 car to take care of businnes.


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## jeepmedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Trauma you forget that Prizonmedic, Fedmedic and I were the paramedics on the WC vans. We could respond to asst. a BLS truck if they needed it at any time. I still miss those days riding around listening to Bob and the Showgram getting paid. It was nice.


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## Guardian (Nov 29, 2006)

MMiz said:


> My service used to put Paramedics on the wheelchair vans all the time.  Our wheelchair van drivers even made a few dollars more an hour than EMT-Bs.
> 
> I don't understand why we stopped offering the service, only because I think it's good to offer hospitals and nursing homes a one-stop source for transportation, but it's been more than a year since 'ole wheelie made the rounds.



paramedic on a wheelchair van is an absolute disgrace.  This proves we don't get the respect we deserve.


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## jeepmedic (Nov 29, 2006)

Guardian said:


> paramedic on a wheelchair van is an absolute disgrace.  This proves we don't get the respect we deserve.



I don't see the disgrace or disrespect here. I did it and enjoyed the time to myself. Also could respond to more calls this way. I would bewilling to bet you have never done it.


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## trauma1534 (Nov 29, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> I don't see the disgrace or disrespect here. I did it and enjoyed the time to myself. Also could respond to more calls this way. I would bewilling to bet you have never done it.



Now, I don't see it as a disgrace, I just see it as a waiste of good staffing to put them on the "take granny to dialysis" calls.  

I have a reason for why I feel this way.  It also opens that provider up for liability.  I had a patient one time who went unresponsive in my WCV.  I had nothing to work with.  I was out in the middle of BFE, and my radio didn't reach out to base, and my cell phone had no signal.  It was a known diabetic, but I had nothing to work with.  All I could do is get back there, move the wheelchair away from them, lay them flat on the floor, and haul arse.  I finally got communication access, and I was told to call 911 for Rescue to meet me enroute to the ER.  It was a nightmare.  There I was with this guy in my van who was unresponsive and laying on the floore with nothing to secure him, what if I had been hit.  My patient was not properly secured.  What if he had coded while he was laying back there, and I was busy driving.  I mean it was just a nightmare.  

We had another medic who was driving a WCV, and thier patient coded.  We didn't even have a BVM or anything on that truck.  

That's why I feel that way.


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## MeckRS83 (Nov 29, 2006)

Now who would put paramedics on a  wheelchair van? makes no sense to me


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## Guardian (Nov 30, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> I don't see the disgrace or disrespect here. I did it and enjoyed the time to myself. Also could respond to more calls this way. I would bewilling to bet you have never done it.



Wow, how did you guess that?

Listen, if you like taking time off to be a taxi driver, that's fine with me.  The fact they would put a paramedic on a wheelchair taxi is insulting.  It's like saying "hey trauma surgeon, would you mind working as an X-ray tech today, I think you would enjoy the time to yourself"...that's crazy!

Also, since I believe every ambulance should be staffed with at least 1 paramedic, I don't think your "I can respond to more calls" is valid.


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## trauma1534 (Nov 30, 2006)

Guardian said:


> Wow, how did you guess that?
> 
> Listen, if you like taking time off to be a taxi driver, that's fine with me.  The fact they would put a paramedic on a wheelchair taxi is insulting.  It's like saying "hey trauma surgeon, would you mind working as an X-ray tech today, I think you would enjoy the time to yourself"...that's crazy!



I think that is just a matter of opinion. I guess if that trauma surgen got paid the same either way, he might not mind!


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## Guardian (Nov 30, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> I think that is just a matter of opinion. I guess if that trauma surgen got paid the same either way, he might not mind!



This really speaks to the ridiculously low pay paramedics get...thanks for strengthening my argument.


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## jeepmedic (Nov 30, 2006)

Guardian said:


> This really speaks to the ridiculously low pay paramedics get...thanks for strengthening my argument.



Hey bud I've made over 60K this year. A that does not include one trip on a ambulance. And I am a paramedic.


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## FFEMT1764 (Nov 30, 2006)

I am going to agree with jeep and his group on this one. I have done the wcv and enjoyed it, take people here and there, not have to worry with drunks and combative people. And if everyone was where they needed to be I could go hide somewhere and nap, go have a nice lunch without interruption, even went shopping at wally world a few times. I dont get htese luxuries on the whambulance. The nice thing about my wcv days was I had a ILS bag and O2 in the truck, at my request none the less, but thats because we had 1 paramedic on shift and if I were at the station waiting for granny to be done at dialysis and one of our BLS trucks needed backup I could jump in either my wcv or the rescue truck and go meet them. I ran ALOT of ILS back-up in those days. ( I was an EMT-I back then).


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## trauma1534 (Nov 30, 2006)

Guardian said:


> This really speaks to the ridiculously low pay paramedics get...thanks for strengthening my argument.



GUARDIAN, did any part of that post say anything about paramedic's pay rate?  I didn't think so!  Let me say it again.  If a surgen made the same amount if he were in xray as if he were performing surgery for that day, do you think he would care what he was doing?  Let me spell it out for you.  IF A PARAMEDIC IS ON A WHEELCHAIR VAN FOR A DAY AND GET"S PAID THE SAME, WHAT DOES IT MATTER!!  It does give them a break.  I hope this helps my post make better since.


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## FFEMT1764 (Nov 30, 2006)

Well, Trauma, I think you made it pretty clear the first time you said it. I know that if I have a choice between riding the bus all day and running 10-18 calls or riding the wcv and driving people around and getting the same $$$ that I would certainly take the wcv, after all, older people are nicer than they drunks and druggies I would have to deal with on the bus!


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## Jon (Nov 30, 2006)

I've worked for several complaies that provide "Coach" services or "MAV" (mobility assistance vehicle) services.

It wasn't abnormal for an EMT's partner to call off and the EMT end up helping with the paratransit stuff.

Occasionally, when a medic didn't have a partner, they worked paratransit. They sometimes had some ALS gear with them, so they could also back up a BLS crew on an ALS run, and sometimes they didn't.

I actually covered paratransit for a few days for one of my employers right after I was hired, as they had a driver out sick. I enjoyed it, because I was able to spend a few days driving around our coverage area and getting to know our contracted facilities... I didn't get lost often after that.


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## MMiz (Dec 2, 2006)

I don't agree with Guardian, but I understand the point he is making.  It's the point people make when they choose not to work jobs at ridiculously low prices.  It's more about the principle than anything.  

It's why airline mechanics would choose to not work at all instead of working at ridiculously low prices.  It's why you don't find many professionals working entry level jobs, even though they have the time and could easily use the money.  If we're going to expect to be regarded as professionals, we should see ourselves as professionals.  

Some may contend a wheelchair van driver isn't regarded a professional position, though I feel otherwise.  At the hospital it's hard to tell the difference between the ER Techs, nurses, and orderlies.  The same goes for our wheelchair van drivers, EMTs, and Paramedics.


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## Stevo (Dec 2, 2006)

I see no wrong in a tiered system that allows basics to run garden variety transferes , saving the medics for what they may be more useful doing.

With the exception of a few incidents that will just go south no matter who is at the helm, dispatch should be able to triage the calls

 in my neck of the woods a medic is still a coveted entity, to be called on when it smells like trouble, not for a taxi ride to the doc in the box

~S~


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## Ridryder911 (Dec 2, 2006)

We have a W/C van and it is staffed with a non-EMT person. We are placing two more up.. If the patient requires oxygen, they have to be transported by the EMS unit. 

It used to be closely monitored and under the State EMS Division, whom described what constitutes transport vehicles, however; private business by-passed the EMS and sued the state for interference in privatization and won! They now advertise as a non-EMS transport, for only w/c transport only.. non-medical care and actually are quite cheaper than most EMS w/c transports. 

Sometimes if the w/c van operator is unexpectedly off, etc... We will place an Intermediate on it. It is an understood policy with management though, a Paramedic will not be placed on it unless they volunteer. However; sometimes the Field Supervisor and even the Director has been seen on it in tight situation......hee.. hee..lol


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## Stevo (Dec 2, 2006)

boy, have our aging babyboomers turned into a $$$ or what?

~S~


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## Guardian (Dec 2, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> Hey bud I've made over 60K this year. A that does not include one trip on a ambulance. And I am a paramedic.




Good for you.  You make about 32k more than most.


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## trauma1534 (Dec 4, 2006)

Guardian said:


> Good for you.  You make about 32k more than most.



How can you refer to most when you don't know what every where is paying?  You should try and present facts when you use a word such as most.  And again, I am interested in knowing, how long you have been in EMS and what is your level of training?  

One local agency here pays thier paramedics $12.00 an hour (this is the big city agancy), while there is another agancy here who pays thier EMT-B's starting out fresh out of class 36k a year.  Thier medics make starting pay at 49k, so it all depends on the agancy, where you are, what you are doing, experience, etc... etc...


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## Guardian (Dec 4, 2006)

Seeing that this is a national forum, I'm talking about national averages.


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## trauma1534 (Dec 4, 2006)

Guardian said:


> Seeing that this is a national forum, I'm talking about national averages.



Since you have those national averages readily available, I am interested in seeing them, do you have a link for it or can't you post a works cited on it? I really would like to read that.  Thank you for any help you can give me on this information.


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## trauma1534 (Dec 4, 2006)

Just curious, does anyone know what they pay first responders in some areas to run wheel chair vans?


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## Guardian (Dec 4, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Since you have those national averages readily available, I am interested in seeing them, do you have a link for it or can't you post a works cited on it? I really would like to read that.  Thank you for any help you can give me on this information.



It's a complex and controversial issue.  There is no one right answer or source.  There are many complicating factors such as private paramedics bringing salary average down and paramedics reporting 60k salaries and failing to report that they work far more than 40 hours/week.


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## jeepmedic (Dec 4, 2006)

Guardian said:


> It's a complex and controversial issue.  There is no one right answer or source.  There are many complicating factors such as private paramedics bringing salary average down and paramedics reporting 60k salaries and failing to report that they work far more than 40 hours/week.



Hey I work a 48 hour week one week and a 32 hour week the next. Well not work I am there those hours. I'm Fat and Lazy I don't do no stinking Overtime.

I would rather play GOLF!!!!!


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## trauma1534 (Dec 4, 2006)

Guardian said:


> It's a complex and controversial issue.  There is no one right answer or source.  There are many complicating factors such as private paramedics bringing salary average down and paramedics reporting 60k salaries and failing to report that they work far more than 40 hours/week.



Go to USAjobs.com... you'll see the pay scales for paramedics... but the job is listed under EMT for the federal prizon


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## Mercy4Angels (Dec 4, 2006)

wheel chair vans are nothing more than a glorified taxi service. what if a person has a heart attack in a regular cab.....same senario. when emt/paramedics are needed we are called.


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## Fedmedic (Dec 4, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Go to USAjobs.com... you'll see the pay scales for paramedics... but the job is listed under EMT for the federal prizon



Hey, hey....easy now....don't be giving our best kept secret away!! 

And Jeepmedic, you're right...you are fat and lazy...but you're not scared of work...I've seen you lay down right beside it and go to sleep!!!:beerchug:


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## jeepmedic (Dec 4, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> Hey, hey....easy now....don't be giving our best kept secret away!!
> 
> And Jeepmedic, you're right...you are fat and lazy...but you're not scared of work...I've seen you lay down right beside it and go to sleep!!!:beerchug:



:beerchug:


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## jeepmedic (Dec 4, 2006)

Mercy4Angels said:


> wheel chair vans are nothing more than a glorified taxi service. what if a person has a heart attack in a regular cab.....same senario. when emt/paramedics are needed we are called.



If they have a heart attack in my WCV then I work on them and wait for a Bls truck and then they have an ALS crew to work on them. After the call I go back to my WCV and enjoy my peacefull day. And the BLS crew cleans up the Truck.


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## Mercy4Angels (Dec 4, 2006)

guess it could make for a nice lazy day, lol. in jersey we have private companies do the whole WCV thing. Town crews are BLS (myself) and the hospitals provide the ALS units. however i see your point after running calls all day it may be nice to sit back and "taxi"


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## trauma1534 (Dec 5, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> If they have a heart attack in my WCV then I work on them and wait for a Bls truck and then they have an ALS crew to work on them. After the call I go back to my WCV and enjoy my peacefull day. And the BLS crew cleans up the Truck.




well.... it is peaceful untill.... "what's your status and location"!  LOL  Remember that?


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## jeepmedic (Dec 5, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> well.... it is peaceful untill.... "what's your status and location"!  LOL  Remember that?



I'm at the Grapevine drinking a TEA   .


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