# Sitting up late, rocking a feverish baby, I realize...



## abckidsmom (Jan 18, 2011)

It would be really, really easy to freak out and call an ambulance for this.

Sure, she's had a fever for 2 days.  Yep, I've called the doctor.  And yet, her breathing is ragged, she looks so pitiful, and I'm so tired I am not completely certain of her tylenol dose.

Remember this when you get woken up with someone's non-emergency, please.  I've got all the resources a person could need.  This would look a whole lot more neglectful in the projects.

I didn't hear that we had a strep exposure until after close of business today, or I would have taken her in.  One of the families in our homeschool co-op is down with scarlet fever.  Joy.


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## Sassafras (Jan 19, 2011)

Awe.  Poor baby.  I hope she's feeling better soon. 

I just don't even think to call an ambo.  My 15 month old fell down an entire flight of steps because his sister left he gate open and he went running after her.  Went to the ER to check for breaks, yes.  Called 911? Nope.  And when I thought he broke his hand (if he was any older the bones would have broke) we drove as well (crazy child pulled a 45 lb olympic weight onto his hand).  I was reprimanded later by our cheif for not calling at least him so he could get me something to stabalize it with, but after I stopped the mom freak out session, I found stuff myself to stabalize it with.

Don't freak about scarlet fever.  It's just a little more intense and brings the rash.  Hopefully your little one doesn't have strep though. And I hope you get some sleep mamma.


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## 46Young (Jan 19, 2011)

Thankfully, most of the peds arrests and diff breathers I've been dispatched for are "only" a Sz. I've been where you are right now quite a few times myself. You're holding the kid, who just looks miserable and listless. You're hoping they don't seize. You're afraid to put them in the crib if they do fall asleep, because they might seize and you'll miss it. 

We've got a whole lot of norovirus type calls here lately. Half of the shift I did OT with the other day were vomiting and defecating water, basically, over their four day breaks. Every time I run a 30 or 40 something c/o n/v for a few hours, I think about all the times I had the same problem, and just waited it out at home like you're supposed to. Whenever I run these pansies, I wonder if I'm going to bring it back to my wife and kids.

As far as getting woken up for someone else's non emergency, it only irritates me if they've done nothing to either medicate, or seek help, circumstances permitting. "My kid's had this fever for six hours, but we haven't given them anything, and it hasn't gotten any better. We want to get them checked out (at 0300)." WTF?


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## 46Young (Jan 19, 2011)

Sassafras said:


> Awe.  Poor baby.  I hope she's feeling better soon.
> 
> I just don't even think to call an ambo.  My 15 month old fell down an entire flight of steps because his sister left he gate open and he went running after her.  Went to the ER to check for breaks, yes.  Called 911? Nope.  And when I thought he broke his hand (if he was any older the bones would have broke) we drove as well (crazy child pulled a 45 lb olympic weight onto his hand).  I was reprimanded later by our cheif for not calling at least him so he could get me something to stabalize it with, but after I stopped the mom freak out session, I found stuff myself to stabalize it with.
> 
> Don't freak about scarlet fever.  It's just a little more intense and brings the rash.  Hopefully your little one doesn't have strep though. And I hope you get some sleep mamma.




My one year old jumped out of my wife's arms onto the carpeted floor once. She also fell backwards after climbing up two steps, hitting her head on the tile floor. Little red mark that went away, maybe a minute of crying or so on both accounts. Everything was fine. A kid runs into an entertainment center, or the edge of the coffee table, the fender bender MVA, and we're called to take them to the ED. We used to bang ourselves up much worse than that on a regular basis when we were toddlers. It's how you learn not to do certain things because they hurt. I could see your point if the child lost consciousness, threw up, became unarousable, needed stitches or a tetanus shot, etc. Not that I don't act professional, but this is what goes through my head on these calls.


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## Blessed187 (Jan 19, 2011)

I know your pain, I've had a cold for the past week now and as hard as I tried not to give it to my newborn she ended up with a stuffy nose yesterday morning. I took her temp in her bottom and called the doc. The temp was 99.3 she said it was nothing to worry about and not to give her tylonal cause you don't want to mask a fever. She has not had a fever at all just a stuffy nose, she's breathing better today but I can tell she feels like crap. I'm having to be really careful when feeding her she without fail is throwing up her first bottle even after I burp her every fl oz. But when I give her some gas drops and make her another bottle she seems to be able to keep it down. I'm up every 15min making sure she does not throw up and choke on it. My poor baby :sad:


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## Aidey (Jan 19, 2011)

46Young said:


> As far as getting woken up for someone else's non emergency, it only irritates me if they've done nothing to either medicate, or seek help, circumstances permitting. "My kid's had this fever for six hours, but we haven't given them anything, and it hasn't gotten any better. We want to get them checked out (at 0300)." WTF?



That is what gets me too. We had one of those the other day, and I ended up pulling the nurse aside at the hospital and asking her if they could do some parental education. Several month old child. No one in the house had their flu shots, and mom hadn't given the kid extra fluids, medication, called their pediatrician etc. When we got there the mom was holding the baby on her lap, with her head pressed against the mom's chest and a hand...the baby did not look happy. When I was asking about past history, symptoms, if she had medicated the baby she just looked at me like I was crazy and told me what hospital to take the baby to, *sigh*. The term "baby daddy" was also used in a serious manner, more than once :wacko:.


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## Veneficus (Jan 19, 2011)

*Swallowing ones pride*

Danger rant ahead:

I really get tired of hearing about people not having an "emergency" when "bothering" EMS crews.

EMS providers sooner or later figure out how to buy children's tylenol, or that there isn't medicine for everything that causes your nose to run. You can now pat yourself on the back for being so smart. 

Not everyone is in the healthcare business. Not everyone is practicioner of medicine. They do not know these things. They rely upon the people that do. They call them for help and give them the social status they do not only for their knowledge, but their willingness to help. For hundreds if not thousands of years they were confident they would be helped without being judged. 

Now a couple of hacks with with a few hundred hours of technical training or minimal healthcare degree are somehow worthy of deciding who needs help and when?

Let me put it into perspective. 

I am the only member of my family or my spouce's with any healthcare education or experience. 

Like most EMS providers (which she is not) my wife doesn't know the difference between something minor and something serious. 

She worries about missing something subtle that she doesn't know about or understand when our daughter gets sick or falls playing. When I am doing my daily thing she is home with our girl.(name withheld) She may look at her and see her sick and suffering. She would do whatever she could to make her feel better. (like most parents) We have plenty of stuff like children's tylenol or ibuprofin. She can read the directions and dosages on the bottle in 5 languages. But she always calls me before giving anything. Even if she did it before. Why? Because she is afraid of making things worse because of what she doesn't know. She wonders if there is somehting different today that makes yesterday's medicine a bad idea. 

Now you may be this person of knowledge your family calls for these dillemas. You may have several people in your family with such. When you are around because you can instantly make these decisions and help. Your very experience helps you decide sick vs. not sick. 

Now what if you didn't have that? Would you feel comfortable medicating your kid/family member? Not calling for help? Not putting aside your pride to engage somebody better qualified?  Not using everything in your power to help your family feel better?

Not everyone is equal. The OP stated she called the doctor. Not because she doesn't know or can't help. For the same reason those who have no knowledge or experience call you. 

You should be honored somebody would place such faith in you. Who would defer the decisions of the fate of a loved one to you. Especially when all of the EMS question trees end in "go to the doctor." Just like all the home phone nurse trees do.

If you saw your family member suffering at 0 dark 30 and really wanted to help but knew you couldn't. Thought you might make it worse? Would you hesitate to call for help?

Why should they get all worked up of whether or not the help will find the call beneath them? 

That person who is transported to the ED is not beneath the doctor's help at 4am. They are certainly not beneath EMS. 

The job of EMS is not to get a good night sleep at work. The job of EMS in the US is to help people when they call. Usually by offering a taxi ride. The better providers offer some reassurance too. 

After all, how many lives has your service saved from the truly sick in the last year? A handful? 

If doing your job interferes with your preferred schedule. Get another job. 

Sorry, rant off.


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## Aidey (Jan 19, 2011)

Honestly, I think your post would be better of in this thread Vene.

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=21617

I wasn't trying to give the impression that people are not deserving of health care, I just wish that people would do more to help themselves. Maybe it is becuase I grew up in a very rural area where the nearest hospital was an hour and a half away so the majority of things were dealt with at home, or at the office of the one MD in town. 

I totally understand that people without any medical training or knowledge can easily feel in over their heads during what we see as a "simple" medical problem. I don't have a problem responding, talking with the patient/their family and treating/transporting accordingly. 

Like I said, my issue is with people who don't do anything to help themselves, not just parents of sick kids. I'm a naturally very curious person. If I don't know something, I try and learn about it, so it always gets me when people are totally ignorant of things that affect their daily lives or could affect them. If I was told I had some sort of medical condition I would read up on it; If I had kids I would talk to my MD ahead of time about what to do when they were sick or have some sort of reference materials available. 

I guess that I just wish that doing everything possible to make yourself or your family feel better didn't mean calling 911 first in cases where there were other options that were never tried.


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## MasterIntubator (Jan 19, 2011)

Honestly... I'm just happy to get any calls during my busy 24 hours... what I live for.  Even for a BP check.

I would though, be in support of the US making it a requirement for first time parents to take a mandatory childcare class which encompassess the from birth to school age kids.  That would be for ANY human having a baby, so that folks can have some direction


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## Harvey (Jan 19, 2011)

I disagree; the purpose of the government is not to mandate parenting classes. Sorry its off topic but why is every problem we are having in our Country today solved with government intervention? 40 years ago such a thought would have abhorrent.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jan 19, 2011)

Harvey said:


> I disagree; the purpose of the government is not to mandate parenting classes. Sorry its off topic but why is every problem we are having in our Country today solved with government intervention? 40 years ago such a thought would have abhorrent.



Agreed! To me today the thought is still abhorrent! It is the responsibility of the family and the community to take care of it's own problems on issues like this. If families were closer nowadays like they used to be ( Ie, kids didn't grow up, move out and never all home except on Christmas) many parenting problems would be solved through the grandparents input. But this has become such a self absorbed society, that even the grandparents don't want that responsibility anymore. 

And because nature abhors a vacuum, something must fill the hole left by our selfish, "me" fulfilling way of life. And in many areas we have given that responsibility to our government, who has no place in most of those issues. As a result we now have an overly powerful government who now has the ability to take what we don't want to give them. Do you see the problem?

Just my $0.02.


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## MasterIntubator (Jan 19, 2011)

Doesn't have to be the Gov't.  Any source that could give the needed help that people need. That is what they are there for.  Direct more of my tax money to further education.  I pay them for the job they do, when they fail... they need to know.


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## reaper (Jan 19, 2011)

Harvey said:


> I disagree; the purpose of the government is not to mandate parenting classes. Sorry its off topic but why is every problem we are having in our Country today solved with government intervention? 40 years ago such a thought would have abhorrent.



Really?

Because 40 years ago, almost every girl took Home Ec, Health class, and Child development. They learned how to take care of a family. So yes, they did learn how to be parents, through Government.


I think the post by Vene should be highlighted as one of the best posts in the last year. It hit the nail on the head. Flat out honesty about how the job should be done!:beerchug:


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## 46Young (Jan 19, 2011)

No one in my family had any medical training while I was growing up. My mother called the pediatrician's office for advice, or she went and asked for the local pharmacist's advice. My wife does the same, and will also call the ED and speak with a nurse if she's unsure what to do. It's not that difficult. When my first child was born, LIJ hospital gave parenting classes that covered everything from changing diapers to medicatinons to anything else. I place the blame of the parent's ignorance in part on healthcare providers. The gov't isn't responsible, but the healthcare system is. You have to have your baby somewhere, right? There are programs for the uninsured for free prenatal healthcare as well. 

I understand that we're paid to run calls, regardless of what they are. I accepted that long ago. It still doesn't make it right that we're called for frivoulous issues on a regular basis. I'm not the only one that feels this way, apparently: 

http://allnurses-central.com/world-news-current/dumb-911-calls-525338.html

How many extra units need to be on the road to handle the increased call volume due to unnecessary calls? How does that impact your job status, compensation increases, benefits, equipment maitenance, etc? I've never given anyone any beef for calling for minor issues. What irritates me is when I try to educate them for future reference, they tell me not to bother, why are you telling me this, I can just call you guys instead. I've heard "you're my taxi" on more than a few occasions. It's part of the job, but it doesn't mean that I have to like it, nor does it mean that I need to change careers. Do firefighters routinely quit because they're repeatedly woken up for alarm bells, which are typically a smoke detector or CO detector that didn't have it's batteries changed? Do cops quit because they have to write up numerous BS fender bender MVA's or disturbing the peace calls by crabby neighbors?


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## 46Young (Jan 19, 2011)

Harvey said:


> I disagree; the purpose of the government is not to mandate parenting classes. Sorry its off topic but why is every problem we are having in our Country today solved with government intervention? 40 years ago such a thought would have abhorrent.



Absolutely! Nowadays, it would seem that whatever the issue is, the response is almost always for the gov't to "do something." Calling 911 for every little thing (police/fire/EMS in general) is an example of that mindset. No personal initiative, responsibility, or accountability anymore. It's always someone else's problem, or someone else's fault. Like the McDonald's hot coffee suit, for example. I heard that the UK is putting cameras in certain households so that they can ensure the children are going to school, going to bed at a certain hour, etc. 

This is where we're headed:

http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Dependence-Day-6753


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## 46Young (Jan 19, 2011)

abc, how's the little one doing today?


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## abckidsmom (Jan 19, 2011)

46Young said:


> abc, how's the little one doing today?



Thanks for asking, she's got strep and 2 ear infections.  Poor dear.

If she follows the standard pattern in our family, she'll have another 24 hours of fever, and then we'll just have abx for the rest of the course.  I love cute little kids with short, fat necks!  Perfect for growing things.  

We are 4 for 4 with tubes, tonsils and adenoids before age 4, maybe this kid will make it unanimous!

Interesting thread, I'll be back later to finish reading it...this parenting gig takes up too much of my downtime sometimes!


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## Veneficus (Jan 19, 2011)

Aidey said:


> Honestly, I think your post would be better of in this thread Vene..



Perhaps. I don't really think there is a good place for a rant, but after all the numerous discussions on this both on and off the internet over the years, I am just at my wits end on it.

I know we all have aspects of our jobs we would like to be different. As a coping mechanism we sometimes need to vent our nonpolitically correct opinion. What can I say? I would like to see a lot of change in EMS and have not been able to effect any of it. 

I have been struggling with finally giving up on it for a while, I just don't quit things easily I guess. 


ABC:

Glad to hear things are going at least a little better.


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## firetender (Jan 19, 2011)

*What you reflect*

As recent as fifty years ago, the first line of defense in perceived medical dilemmas was the extended family, including neighbors and friends. The FIRST calls you made were to Aunty Em, and her gaggle of confidants. The last call was to the doctor, and he'd come over!

But, see, all that was Folk Medicine, of which every aspect has been debunked, proven ineffective and maybe even damaging. The truth is, most of it worked for minor stuff, but, really, it wasn't scientific so it couldn't be real.

Over the years, as family units have gotten smaller and smaller and CONNECTION with relatives and neighbors has become more limited regular folks just don't have willing ears to turn to.

Regardless of the debates I'll face, it boils down to the dis-empowerment of the regular populace to self-treat; the breakdown of the extended family system that made available support from other than professionals. 

Now, you often can't even call in to an ER for advice because if anything smacks of liability, and EVERYTHING does these days, no one will take the risk to advise.

EMS is the stopgap measure. You deliver common-sense, even if you don't have any for such stuff.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jan 19, 2011)

firetender said:


> Now, you often can't even call in to an ER for advice because if anything smacks of liability, and EVERYTHING does these days, no one will take the risk to advise.



So true. Several months ago, I was taking care of my 8 y/0 sister while my parents were out of town and she came down with a terrible cough and sore throat and all. It was like 0500 and she was coughing like crazy and I had not slept all night worrying about her, so I called the ER to ask for the name of a cough expectorant, and the nurse told me they can't give any medical advice on the phone. Seriously? All I asked was for the name of an expectorant and they won't give me that!


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## abckidsmom (Jan 19, 2011)

Veneficus said:


> Danger rant ahead:
> If doing your job interferes with your preferred schedule. Get another job.
> 
> Sorry, rant off.



I could ramble on and on, but this one's just going to get an AMEN.

I just wish that priority dispatching was a given so that we never, ever drove lights and sirens for a non-emergency.  I hate that.

Some of my favorite work is completely comprised of educating people in how to successfully manage their own problems.  I have a side-job, among my friends, of calculating their kids' tylenol dose.  (I have them sign a waiver first...lol)


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## Aidey (Jan 19, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Some of my favorite work is completely comprised of educating people in how to successfully manage their own problems.  I have a side-job, among my friends, of calculating their kids' tylenol dose.  (I have them sign a waiver first...lol)



There isn't an app for that? 












Sorry, I couldn't resist. ^_^


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## Seaglass (Jan 19, 2011)

I have some relatives who would've called 911 in your position. While people like them are pretty frustrating when I'm the one who gets to respond, I feel sorry for them. 

Why? Because they're feeling real fear. They're convinced that the human body is inherently fragile and unstable, and filled with all kinds of myths they got from like-minded parents on the internet. I don't think it's really their fault, either. They just have no idea how to tell good information from bad information, and tend to go with the scariest choices because they're scared of being wrong and hurting their kids. 

I definitely like them a lot better than the ones who forget that kids need regular feeding, at least. 



reaper said:


> Because 40 years ago, almost every girl took Home Ec, Health class, and Child development. They learned how to take care of a family. So yes, they did learn how to be parents, through Government.



I wish there was some sort of life skills class for all middle schoolers. Things like cooking, basic car maintenance, and how to balance a checkbook are completely beyond way too many college students.


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## abckidsmom (Jan 19, 2011)

Seaglass said:


> I wish there was some sort of life skills class for all middle schoolers. Things like cooking, basic car maintenance, and how to balance a checkbook are completely beyond way too many college students.




I taught that class last year at our homeschool co-op.  Homeschool is the new magnet school.  Just sayin.

In our co-op, which is an all-day Friday day of school, in the past year, we've had ballistics, rocketry, robotics, aeronautics (taught by an aerospace engineer), cooking, quilting, sewing, art, simple machines, ropes and knots, life skills, small engine exploration and repair, CPR and first aid, phonics, astronomy, anatomy, community helpers, latin, study of english roots, biology, french, choir, violin, music theory, chess, and little house on the prarie club.

We have fun, and the kids learn a lot.


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## abckidsmom (Jan 19, 2011)

Aidey said:


> There isn't an app for that?
> 
> 
> Sorry, I couldn't resist. ^_^



I've got a niche market, and an iphone hasn't been in the budget yet.  Bummer.


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## Shishkabob (Jan 19, 2011)

Seaglass said:


> I wish there was some sort of life skills class for all middle schoolers. Things like cooking, basic car maintenance, and how to balance a checkbook are completely beyond way too many college students.



That's the thing... there IS.


Granted I went to an affluent, upper-middle class, predominantly white school district....




			
				abckidsmom said:
			
		

> Remember this when you get woken up with someone's non-emergency, please.



Kid with fever =/= adult fully capable of handling themselves with little to no ill-effect with fever.


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## Seaglass (Jan 21, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> I taught that class last year at our homeschool co-op.  Homeschool is the new magnet school.  Just sayin.



When it's done right, at least. Most of the ones I've gotten to know subscribe to the "the only way to keep kids out of Sin is to make them dress up like Little House on the Prarie!" and "my snowflake is much too special to ever meet other kids!" schools of thought. 

A lot of the parents I see are also in situations that don't give them options beyond shoving their kids at the nearest public school. Depressing.

That being said, if I ever have kids and there was a good homeschool co-op around, that's probably where I'd send them.



			
				Linuss said:
			
		

> That's the thing... there IS.
> 
> Granted I went to an affluent, upper-middle class, predominantly white school district....



Where I went to school, classes like that were mostly for lower-class kids, if they existed at all. They were especially pointless because a lot of their target students dropped out and/or had kids before reaching the end of high school, which is when they were offered. The general idea seemed to be that rich white kids who stayed in school would be better off slaving over additional AP courses and eating ramen for the rest of their lives.

Granted, my district was really awful...


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