# Pediatric Jump Bag



## medic452 (Dec 26, 2008)

Hi,

I know most of us carry our own personal "Adult" jump bag in our POV's...however, how many of you carry a seperate "Pediatric" jump bag in your POV and what do you carry in it? Pros and Cons of carrying two, ect?


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## akflightmedic (Dec 26, 2008)

Yes I totally agree.

I carry pediatric 4x4s, pediquets (pediatric tourniquets), snoopy band aids, sterile saline but a lesser concentration for their more sensitive skin, and most importantly, several different pedi sized c-collars. I feel you can never be prepared enough.

I even found a discounted KED to use as a pedi immbolization device. It doesn't take up much room in my trunk either!!


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## daedalus (Dec 26, 2008)

akflight, don't forget the Vaseline for the rectal thermometer.


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## firecoins (Dec 26, 2008)

yes we have a pediatric jump bag with a bunch of the usual stuff.


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## Scout (Dec 26, 2008)

as in a smaller bag that takes up less room?


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 26, 2008)

I may be wrong, but I thought the OP was talking about carrying a peds jump kit in your POV - not on the rig.


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## firecoins (Dec 26, 2008)

ffemt8978 said:


> I may be wrong, but I thought the OP was talking about carrying a peds jump kit in your POV - not on the rig.



I think your right.  No I don't have a pediatric jump bag.  I have a trauma kit that holds a small first aid kit with non-ems items in it like my phone charger.


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## Sapphyre (Dec 26, 2008)

medic452 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know most of us carry our own personal "Adult" jump bag in our POV's...



Most????  My "jump bag" is my "bag of tricks" that I carry to work, cause well, I move into the rig for 12 hours, need something to entertain me!!!!

I don't really carry supplies for stopping and assisting, it kinda depends on what hasn't been cleaned out of my car.  Therefor, I do not have pediatric or adult specific supplies


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## MRE (Dec 26, 2008)

Most supplies can be used for adults and pedi.  I do have basic airways that are small enough for pedi and a pedi C collar.


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## KEVD18 (Dec 26, 2008)

two things: 

1) id review your stats on who here carts about a jump kit for the purposes of providing medical aid to people while off duty. note, people who respond(whether paid or volly) directly to the scene are often partially or fully required to carry duty gear and thus dont count. we're talking about the whack pack who want to save the world one onsighted mvc at a time. i think you'll find that most of us have seen the light...

2) as far as on duty, one company i used to work for had a dedicated pedi bag on the medic truck. pedi cuff, pedi iv stuff, broslow tape etc. that made it easier when we got a pedi call. everything in one place. sure, we have dupes of everything throughout the truck but this eliminated the hunting and gathering.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Dec 27, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> two things:
> 
> 1) id review your stats on who here carts about a jump kit for the purposes of providing medical aid to people while off duty. note, people who respond(whether paid or volly) directly to the scene are often partially or fully required to carry duty gear and thus dont count. we're talking about the whack pack who want to save the world one onsighted mvc at a time. i think you'll find that most of us have seen the light...
> 
> 2) as far as on duty, one company i used to work for had a dedicated pedi bag on the medic truck. pedi cuff, pedi iv stuff, broslow tape etc. that made it easier when we got a pedi call. everything in one place. sure, we have dupes of everything throughout the truck but this eliminated the hunting and gathering.


Kev, that's how we do it.

We check out the pedi bags and seal them based on color to the braslow tape.  Then we just make sure they are sealed every morning still and have not expired.  It makes it very easy since after a call, we only have to re check one bag and restock that one bag and not go through the entire list of things for all the colors.

The only thing I carry in my bookbag is eye shield (company's are crap assuming we know where they are), maybe a couple of pairs of gloves, and a sthethoscope (in case i don't like the one on the truck).  Other than that its just books, mp3 player, keys and other stuff i don't want ot carry in my pocket.


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## boingo (Dec 27, 2008)

My bag is set up for both ped's and adult, and I only have it in my car when I'm going to another station on OT.


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## KEVD18 (Dec 27, 2008)

boingo said:


> My bag is set up for both ped's and adult, and I only have it in my car when I'm going to another station on OT.


 

just out of curiosity, what abotu the city trucks? one bag or an adult and a pedi set?


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## boingo (Dec 28, 2008)

The trucks are stocked with two adult and one ped's bag, however more than half the medics stock and carry their own bag.  I take my bag wherever I'm working, and try to use it whenever possible.  I can carry everything I need in one bag, its a bit heavy, but I know I have everything I need.


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## FF894 (Dec 28, 2008)

boingo said:


> The trucks are stocked with two adult and one ped's bag, however more than half the medics stock and carry their own bag.  I take my bag wherever I'm working, and try to use it whenever possible.  I can carry everything I need in one bag, its a bit heavy, but I know I have everything I need.



Wait, when you are working on the rig you bring and use your own bags?  That just seems a little weird.  So they are all different?  Does each partner have their own?


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## boingo (Dec 28, 2008)

yeah, it is a bit strange.  My partners and I carry our own bags, I know where things are in their bags and they know where things are in mine.  We usually rotate between calls, so if its my case, then we use my bag.  All the trucks have dedicated bags, but for the most part people prefer to set up their own.  The bags supplied are not ideal, someday they may provide a bag we all like, and the personal bag will be a thing of the past.  The drug boxes are all the same, as are the monitors and o2 bags.


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## marineman (Dec 28, 2008)

Who pays for the bags and the equipment in them? As long as the company pays for everything I could maybe see it but isn't that what a rig check is for. All of our rigs are stocked with a specific number of each item and actually I have yet to see one that doesn't get restocked enough and all of the jump bags are set up in the exact same manner with the same number of each item so you can grab any jump bag out of any rig and know exactly where to find what you're looking for. Maybe that's a perk of being with a smaller company that has time to restock between calls but I couldn't imagine any other way.


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## boingo (Dec 28, 2008)

If you want your own bag, you pay for it.  All the equipment however, is from the city.  I come from a military background, were everything is packed the same way, so if you were in a dark room, my ruck would be the same as yours.  It makes sense that way, but alas, thats not how it is were I work.  I am now a HUGE fan of using my own bag, packed my own way. I don't care for the provided bags.  It may not be the norm, but for me, I wouldn't want to be without my own kit.  Just an opinion of course.  Now, if everyone would just use my style of bag packed exactly like mine, we wouldn't have this problem.


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## medic452 (Dec 29, 2008)

Im the exact same way. I run with two different agencies, and all of their trucks are stocked with their own bags, however, I find it works much better for me to carry my own.

We live in a small county, so if it is an adult call, I use my own bag so that I know where everything is located, ect. If it is a peds call, then I will grab my peds bag filled with a bunch of goodies to calm the kids down and work out of that. It may seem like a pain to carry and or use both, but you'd be surprised how many times I'm glad I had.


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## FF894 (Dec 29, 2008)

I think it makes sense to have your own as long as it works out between your partner and you.  I agree 100% with having bags orderly and consistent.  One agency I works for has all of the bags *exactly* the same so you could reach in blind folded and know where to grab.  We also center all zippers.  Love it.  Other agency- all bags are different depending on vehicle, lucky if they are even stocked properly.  Never able to find anything when there is plenty of time, let alone a code or major trauma.


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## BossyCow (Dec 29, 2008)

marineman said:


> Who pays for the bags and the equipment in them? .




More importantly, who's liability is it if something in that bag malfunctions? If the rig provides equipment and the employee chooses to use their own instead.. I can see a whole list of reasons that the agency's liability carrier would use to deny culpability.


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## frogtat2 (Dec 29, 2008)

*Pediatric Jump Kit*

I have a "multipurpose" jump kit in my pov.  My jump kit isn't what I would call exensive, but enough to deal with the ABC's.  I have adult/ped airways and cpr masks.  I also have adult/ped bp cuffs.  I never know what call will come, or what I will run across.  I figure its for my own good to have the basics for both.


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## FF894 (Dec 30, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> More importantly, who's liability is it if something in that bag malfunctions? If the rig provides equipment and the employee chooses to use their own instead.. I can see a whole list of reasons that the agency's liability carrier would use to deny culpability.



Is a bag malfunction anything like a wardrobe malfunction??

Whos to say the equipment in the ambulance is any better?  I've never heard of any state or other regulatory agency that sets standards for equipment such as bags. The supplies in the bag are probably the same?  I know most companies around here restock at hospital, so whether you are stocking the ambulance bag or your bag, its the same stuff.


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## BossyCow (Dec 30, 2008)

FF894 said:


> Is a bag malfunction anything like a wardrobe malfunction??
> 
> Whos to say the equipment in the ambulance is any better?  I've never heard of any state or other regulatory agency that sets standards for equipment such as bags. The supplies in the bag are probably the same?  I know most companies around here restock at hospital, so whether you are stocking the ambulance bag or your bag, its the same stuff.




Do you have any familiarity at all with liability issues and risk management? It doesn't have to make sense. It just needs to give the company who insures your agency a reason to not pay a judgement. The supplies are 'probably the same' not the same.. okay.. here's a for instance.. you are called to a peds with difficulty breathing.. the baby dies, probably due to nothing in your treatment. The parents call a lawyer.. because somebody must have done something wrong.. their baby died.. and blame is a natural phase of the grief process.. the attorney does a discovery on the call and finds out that you do not use the kit issued by the agency.. but you use your own.. at that point.. the law firm has a team of law clerks to dig up every consumer complaint ever filed against every piece of equipment in your bag.

If the equipment is 'probably the same'.. then why not use what is issued? If the judgement is found against anything in your bag, the agency you work for will not insure you.. the fault will be yours.. not the agency's so you better be carrying your own personal liability insurance.


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## boingo (Dec 30, 2008)

The only equipment I use that isn't issued is the bag itself, all the equipment carried is supplied by the department.  I suppose I could have a catastrophic bag failure, but I'm willing to take that risk.  Well, thats not entirely true, I supply my own stethescope as well.


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## BossyCow (Dec 30, 2008)

boingo said:


> The only equipment I use that isn't issued is the bag itself, all the equipment carried is supplied by the department.  I suppose I could have a catastrophic bag failure, but I'm willing to take that risk.  Well, thats not entirely true, I supply my own stethescope as well.



And you maintain records of when you inventory the bag.. and you know if everything in your bag is current, not expired, not subject to a recall, you have records documenting all of this... because, in a law suit.. its not whether or not everything was 'okay'.. but can you prove it was. 

To me.. if the equipment in the bag is the same. .there is no reason other than some type A personality control issue to use a personal bag instead of the one issued. If the issued bag is deficient in some way.. why not address that instead of doing an end run around it that puts you personally at risk?


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## boingo (Dec 30, 2008)

I think you have a bit too much litigation paranoia.  Its a bag, thats all. The equipment is supplied, its all in date, it is subject to all the same packing criteria as the issued bag.  I will agree on the type A personality thing though.


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## KEVD18 (Dec 30, 2008)

bossy, its also sop at his department that each member equip there own bag. being municipal employees, they have wonderful legal protection. their liability is capped at 100,000 which is covered by the dept.

further, while im all for keeping liability in mind, there really isnt any here. as he said, its a bag. pretty much the worst that could happen would be say a zipper not opening. in that case, he could grab his partners bag. or one of the three off the rig. or since most als call in boston are dual dispatched, he could use one of the two personal bags from the bls crew members. or one of the three off of their truck. one more level of protection is the fd. bfd is sent on a lot of medical calls and they have bags on their trucks as well. so thats like 10 back up bags. theres no issue there. and all the fillings are dept issued.


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## DR_KSIDE (Dec 30, 2008)

*My kit*

I used to carry the majority of adult item in my kit, but now that I have 3 kids and one of them happens to be prone to seizures and other medical problems, I have now upgraded to include a very good array of BLS supplies for both Peds and Adult. I was even able to fit in C-collars in my kit for both. I just don't carry O2, yet.


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## FF894 (Dec 30, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> bossy, its also sop at his department that each member equip there own bag. being municipal employees, they have wonderful legal protection. their liability is capped at 100,000 which is covered by the dept.
> 
> further, while im all for keeping liability in mind, there really isnt any here. as he said, its a bag. pretty much the worst that could happen would be say a zipper not opening. in that case, he could grab his partners bag. or one of the three off the rig. or since most als call in boston are dual dispatched, he could use one of the two personal bags from the bls crew members. or one of the three off of their truck. one more level of protection is the fd. bfd is sent on a lot of medical calls and they have bags on their trucks as well. so thats like 10 back up bags. theres no issue there. and all the fillings are dept issued.




Dont forget EMS Sup - thats 2 more...


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## KEVD18 (Dec 30, 2008)

FF894 said:


> Dont forget EMS Sup - thats 2 more...


 

strong work. i had forgotten about the sup's and div chiefs, and i suppose we now have to add the possibility of the fire cars as well.

bottom line is on that particular system, theres really no way to not have a first in bag thats in order.

the best analogy i can come up with is imagine a volley system that doesnt regulate who responds to calls. ever scene a volley scene with a dozen volleys? i have. now, if everyone of them had thier standard issue whacker bag, you'd have the same deal.


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## Jon (Jan 4, 2009)

Reading this thread, I don't see a lot of folks admitting to having personal jump bags.

My equipment is "left over" from when I was a volunteer firefighter and used to occasionally end up on scenes instead of on the engine/ambulance. It is VERY basic... and I've not opened the bag in over a year. The less I use it, the less it ends up in the car. As of now, it is a family first-aid kit.

So I'm not convinced that we are all the world's biggest whackers.

As for the OP's question... WHY? I never carried O2, so I never needed peds O2 supplies. I never carried a suction unit, so I didn't need peds suction supplies. I never carried a pulse-ox, so I didn't need peds pulse-ox probes. I did have a range of child, adult, and large adult BP cuffs... becuase I was given a set. That's all I had. 4x4's and kling are still the same... as are cold packs.


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## KEVD18 (Jan 4, 2009)

Britter9118 said:


> I have just one question, where in the hell did you get your emt-certs. practing health care out of a trunk? you have to be kidding me. how professional is that..this is clearly the biggest whacker site I've ever seen.


 

far as i can see, we're all talkign about stuff on the trucks, but if you dislike our little corner of the internet so much, why dont you roll on down the road.

for the record, this is probably the least whackerish site going what with elightbars, firehouse etc still online....


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## Scout (Jan 5, 2009)

i think people vered off topic form the original qestion which i understood to be paeds in POV, most people replied thinking they were talking truck


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## akflightmedic (Jan 5, 2009)

I agree with you and am also sad that most people missed my sarcasm in the first post. 

Surely someone would have called BS on my "pedi 4x4s" and "specially concentrated saline for peds".  Oh well....


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## mcrs41 (Jan 5, 2009)

I agree with Scout.  For the main question, I carry a jump bag in my trunk, but it has only very basic supplies, 4x4s, cravats, hot & cold packs, etc.  I do have an op set that includes the one or 2 small ones for peds, but other than that nothing special.  I would also check local & state regs on what is allowed to be carried POV.


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## smvde (Jan 5, 2009)

The only thing faster than a new EMT, First Responder etc, to include whackers, getting a personal jump bag, is a fire monkey headed for the buffet.

I've seen too many vollies and newbie EMTs with a jumpbag full of fluids, IV supplies, and one even had a damn combitube.  First off, most of it is out of date by the time you would get to use it, and secondly, it goes beyond what the Good Samaritian laws will cover and they are in effect, practicing medicine without a license. Which I might add, is illegal and will cost you your license or certification.


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## Frank_Fedderling (Feb 18, 2009)

I carry a box with pedi, neonate, preemie airways, bags, airway devices, etc. in my POV.. Just because it's important to be prepared, and I don't have the luxury of always having an ambulance on hand.


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## CAOX3 (Feb 18, 2009)

Frank_Fedderling said:


> I carry a box with pedi, neonate, preemie airways, bags, airway devices, etc. in my POV.. Just because it's important to be prepared, and I don't have the luxury of always having an ambulance on hand.



Gloves is prepared.


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## Sasha (Feb 18, 2009)

> "pedi 4x4s"



You mean that's not what the 2x2s are meant for!?!


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## Shishkabob (Feb 18, 2009)

Sasha said:


> You mean that's not what the 2x2s are meant for!?!





But children aren't just little adults!  Oh noes!


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2009)

I've seen a few of the bags carried around in the car trunks of some EMS enthusiasts. They are in the trunk with the fishing tackle, dirty gym clothes, other dirty laundry and greasy tools. Often the supplies are out dated or damaged by heat and cold. 

Everyone, in the profession or not, should have a basic (as in simple) first-aid kit with them that can be easily tossed when expired and a new one bought to replace it. But, to carry a full BLS jump kit in your POV can be a little over the top. You don't see doctors carrying around alot of medical supplies, nor any of the other healthcare professions. They carry a cell phone and do what they can if they even choose to get involved.


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2009)

smvde said:


> The only thing faster than a new EMT, First Responder etc, to include whackers, getting a personal jump bag, is a fire monkey headed for the buffet.


 
There's another forum I can suggest that you can take your fire monkey jokes to.   This forum has EMS providers from private, municipal, county and FIRE.   However, they do come here to discuss EMS regardless of where they work.


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## HasTy (Feb 18, 2009)

KEVD18 said:


> 2) as far as on duty, one company i used to work for had a dedicated pedi bag on the medic truck. pedi cuff, pedi iv *stuff*, broslow tape etc. that made it easier when we got a pedi call. everything in one place. sure, we have dupes of everything throughout the truck but this eliminated the hunting and gathering.



I am not sure where and who you work for but the way our trucks are set up *All* the iv 





> stuff


 is in one cabinet and all the other 





> stuff


 is kept grouped together by what it does....anyway back to the OP I do carry a personal "jump kit" for adults I do not carry a pedi bag I do stick some pedi equipment in my bag though. Hope this helps.


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## boingo (Feb 18, 2009)

Does AJ work for a fire dept?  Just curious.


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## OzAmbo (Feb 18, 2009)

i have a small bag i the boot that is just has some basic first aid supplies, BVM, a cheap steth and a B/P cuff. Mind you half of this i didn't even buy, it was stuf left over from university. The total "paediatric component is a kiddie BVM and OPA's

I know some get upset with people having a BVM in the car, but really its not that much different from having a face mask. Now blokes with IV rolls, Hartmann's and LMA's etc are a worry


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2009)

OzAmbo said:


> I know some get upset with people having a BVM in the car, but really its not that much different from having a face mask.


 
No problem as long as you can assure it is in a container to prevent contamination.  Nothing like complicating a child's successful resuscitation only to have them die from fungal spores and bacteria.  The face mask can also be contaminated but the bag part of the BVM is a great breeding ground for microbiology studies.   The same with those cute little plastic bulb snot suckers.


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## BLSBoy (Feb 18, 2009)

boingo said:


> Does AJ work for a fire dept?  Just curious.



I am certified in Florida as a Career Fireman, and I currently am a volunteer in Jersey.


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2009)

TylerHastings said:


> I am not sure where and who you work for but the way our trucks are set up *All* the iv is in one cabinet and all the other is kept grouped together by what it does....


 
In other words, you don't use a Braslow set up or bag on your trucks.


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## smvde (Feb 18, 2009)

Let me clarify for those of you who take offense to any and everything, my little idiom was intended to make the point that new EMTs, First Responders, etc are so quick to obtain a jumpbag, fill it full of things they have little or no use for, and seldom maintain.

My father founded the first volunteer fire departments in my county, and I have on more than one occasion, referred to him and his fellow firemen as firemonkeys, just as they referred to me as an ambulance driver. 

I see EMTs and Medics who get their panties all in a wad every time someone refers to them as Ambulance drivers, but WTF? Were we all not taught the old saying, "sticks and stones.....but words will never hurt me"?

And yes Vent, I am on the other site, and yes, I've seen your diatribes there as well, so get off it.

But as someone has pointed out here, do you want some one working on you or your family with a jumpbag full of old expired supplies, that has been bouncing around in the trunk of the car or in the back of a farm truck?

Anyway, there it is. 

Flame away.


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2009)

smvde said:


> And yes Vent, I am on the other site, and yes, I've seen your diatribes there as well, so get off it.


 
I do defend FFs since that is my roots and I don't care what you call  your own family members. I don't agree with the FF bashing on the other forum which is why I do sling it back at them occasionally especially if they believe they are everyone's gift to everything and few can back up what they say.


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## smvde (Feb 18, 2009)

Again I say, Whatever.


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 18, 2009)

Stay on topic, and lay off the personal attacks...unless you want to become the focus of my complete and undivided attention.


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## OzAmbo (Feb 18, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> No problem as long as you can assure it is in a container to prevent contamination.  Nothing like complicating a child's successful resuscitation only to have them die from fungal spores and bacteria.  The face mask can also be contaminated but the bag part of the BVM is a great breeding ground for microbiology studies.   The same with those cute little plastic bulb snot suckers.


Still in their sealed packaging


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 18, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> Stay on topic, and lay off the personal attacks...unless you want to become the focus of my complete and undivided attention.



Kind of off topic, I know, but do you create all those cool admin .gif things yourself?


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## boingo (Feb 19, 2009)

BLSBoy said:


> I am certified in Florida as a Career Fireman, and I currently am a volunteer in Jersey.




What does that require in Florida?  Can you take it to other states as well?


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## boingo (Feb 19, 2009)

Back to the bag topic, I carry one bag for all.  I don't keep it in my POV, its for work, however I do travel with it to other station for overtime, so it will occasionally end up going home with me.  The size and weight is a bit much, but I like keeping all my stuff in one bag.  That doesn't include o2, drugs or monitor.


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## BLSBoy (Feb 19, 2009)

boingo said:


> What does that require in Florida?  Can you take it to other states as well?



http://www.fldfs.com/SFM/bfst/Standard/StdFFCrt.htm


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## AJ Hidell (Feb 19, 2009)

This thread is becoming epic!


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## DevilDuckie (Feb 19, 2009)

We already have a separate pack of Pediatric supplies, specific to the EMSC recommendations, not the state's requirements - but still with in our scope. I don't know why I'd need one in my POV. I don't even carry any more than a simple first aid kit. Until such is required, I don't plan to consider it either.




lightsandsirens5 said:


> Kind of off topic, I know, but do you create all those cool admin .gif things yourself?




You'd be amazed how much free animation software is already included in the basic home PC program. It's easier to download, or buy a frame by frame .gif creator. Works in the same manner as one of those little flip books that you use like a silent film.


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## boingo (Feb 19, 2009)

BLSBoy said:


> http://www.fldfs.com/SFM/bfst/Standard/StdFFCrt.htm



Thanks for the link.


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## HasTy (Feb 19, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> In other words, you don't use a Braslow set up or bag on your trucks.



Not quite what I meant,my bad did not word that post very well,  we do have a braslow tape and we do use a jump bag we just do not have a dedicated pediatric bag...


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## DevilDuckie (Feb 19, 2009)

We use the Pedi Wheel.

EMS for C - ALS/BLS Pedi Check List

http://www.childrensnational.org/fi...tric_Equipment_and_Supplies_BLS_and_ALS_A.pdf


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