# "Snowstorm" Paramedic Rehired



## Shishkabob (Feb 15, 2011)

http://www.wtae.com/news/26864796/detail.html



> A city of Pittsburgh paramedic who was fired after a man died during a massive snowstorm in February 2010 has her job back




Good.


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## Bon-Tech (Feb 27, 2011)

I can't even believe they're appealing the decision to reinstate her, as if she hasn't been through enough crap.


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## JPINFV (Feb 28, 2011)

Remind me, where do all ya'll work where it's acceptable for a paramedic to not go on scene for "scene safety" (if I recall correctly, one of the factors was the 'potential for downed power lines') and physical ability reasons (I get it, it was a snow storm and the city was caught with it's pants down), but expect that the patient would be able to leave safety and walk to you? Where is it that it's acceptable to expect the patient to have more physical strength than the paramedic? ...because I'd hate to have to need EMS in your area. High grass may be too scary (snakes) and I'll be required to self extricate and walk to you just in case.

For the record, here's the quote.

"He ain't (expletive) coming down and I ain't waiting all day for him. I mean, what the (expletive)? This ain't no cab service."

That isn't being a scape goat, that's someone's mouth getting them rightfully fired.


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## abckidsmom (Feb 28, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Remind me, where do all ya'll work where it's acceptable for a paramedic to not go on scene for "scene safety" (if I recall correctly, one of the factors was the 'potential for downed power lines') and physical ability reasons (I get it, it was a snow storm and the city was caught with it's pants down), but expect that the patient would be able to leave safety and walk to you? Where is it that it's acceptable to expect the patient to have more physical strength than the paramedic? ...because I'd hate to have to need EMS in your area. High grass may be too scary (snakes) and I'll be required to self extricate and walk to you just in case.
> 
> For the record, here's the quote.
> 
> ...



I've gotta side with you on this one.  Where was fire?  Snow is a PITA, but we get the patients out, one way or another.  Maybe we help them walk, even through a path we shoveled all the way down the block.  But we just don't DO this kind of crap.


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## Anjel (Feb 28, 2011)

As long as there were no immediate threats to my safety. I would of borrowed a shovel and got my butt out of the ambulance and shoveled my way to my patient. Could they not of got a snow plow or something? They seemed to just give up. 

Yay she got her job back....but I hope she learned something.


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## 8jimi8 (Feb 28, 2011)

Anjel1030 said:


> As long as there were no immediate threats to my safety. I would of borrowed a shovel and got my butt out of the ambulance and shoveled my way to my patient. Could they not of got a snow plow or something? They seemed to just give up.
> 
> Yay she got her job back....but I hope she learned something.



i'm betting she feels quite justified if she is getting her job back...


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## shfd739 (Feb 28, 2011)

This is crap. I was working on the Miss. Coast for Katrina. Our station took 2-3 feet of water. The afternoon it cleared we were back out running calls. Yes the first mile or so of land in from the beach was littered with debris, roads were blocked with remains of buildings and people were stuck. We had trouble getting around is an understatement. However we still humped it to patients and no one that summoned help was left without. It might have taken us a little time to to get them but they got care. Hazards were present but we took our time and watched out for them. 

I see the hurricane aftermath as no different from this just different causes. This medics attitude as evidenced by her comment is why she should stay fired. She wasn't a scapegoat. She screwed up and a person is dead.


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## Tommerag (Feb 28, 2011)

Maybe she should try being in EMS in South Dakota. She wouldn't be responding to, to many calls in the winter.


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## Jon (Feb 28, 2011)

http://roguemedic.com/2011/02/josie...michael-huss-in-the-death-of-curtis-mitchell/

RougeMedic makes some great points that, esp. in light of the demotion of FDNY's EMS Chief over a similar Cluster####, it's asinine and scapegoatish that the only one fired was the medic. This storm shouldn't have been a surprise. Given the radio quote (not something I heard before) there is a professionalism issue... but the cause given for the termination was found to be inappropriate.


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## JPINFV (Feb 28, 2011)

Do we only punish people if everyone gets caught now?


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## Veneficus (Feb 28, 2011)

It seems to me that the arbitration is based around whether or not there were leaders who were not prepared and improperly managed the scene.

Most people who have ever served in a military or paramilitary orgainization can tell you, when somethig goes wrong on the rank and file end, it is always the responsibility of the top brass as well. No doubt many "civillian leaders" don't get this and even fewer have the character to accept responsibility.

But the argument here are two seperate issues that somehow became entwined by some form of political maneuver.

Let us seperate these facts: 

1. There was a failure of the emergency response system to a disaster condition. The individual povider is not responsible for that. The leadership is.

2. The conduct as described by the recordings of the paramedic in question demonstrates her lack of professionalism, compassion, and to steal a phrase: "conduct unbecomming." 

In my opinion,

Should she be fired for the failures of the system? No.

Should she be fired for her lack of professionalism? Yes.


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## johnrsemt (Feb 28, 2011)

I agree;   she shouldn't be canned because of the storm,  although she should have tried harder:  called for an engine crew, and/or snowplow for the emergency.

  but she should be punished/fired for her attitude.


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## fast65 (Mar 1, 2011)

Veneficus said:


> In my opinion,
> 
> Should she be fired for the failures of the system? No.
> 
> Should she be fired for her lack of professionalism? Yes.



I completely agree, she had no control over the system failure; however, she displayed conduct that was unbecoming of a public servant, and that is not excusable in my opinion.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 1, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Remind me, where do all ya'll work where it's acceptable for a paramedic to not go on scene for "scene safety"  , but expect that the patient would be able to leave safety and walk to you?





Remind me, where is it that we can punish someone for refusing to put themselves in danger for someone they don't even know?   Add on the fact that from day one of EMT training, on through Paramedic school, "scene safety" and "Your safety before anyone elses"




Was it dangerous?  I don't know.  Would I have tried to get to the patient?  Don't know, as I don't, and neither do any of you, know the specifics beyond he said / she said of the situation.  No pictures.  No diagrams.  Just words.


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## JPINFV (Mar 1, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Remind me, where is it that we can punish someone for refusing to put themselves in danger for someone they don't even know?   Add on the fact that from day one of EMT training, on through Paramedic school, "scene safety" and "Your safety before anyone elses"
> 
> 
> Was it dangerous?  I don't know.  Would I have tried to get to the patient?  Don't know, as I don't, and neither do any of you, know the specifics beyond he said / she said of the situation.  No pictures.  No diagrams.  Just words.



I'm willing to grant that there were dangers. I'm willing to grant that the scene safety issue is valid. *What I have a problem accepting is that the same situation that is unsafe for the paramedic is entirely safe for the patient to walk through.* The issue that I have is not that the paramedic on this crew, or the other two crews that were dispatched to this location during the storm, didn't necessarily go on scene. It's that the third crew expected the patient to come to them.


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## Veneficus (Mar 1, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Remind me, where is it that we can punish someone for refusing to put themselves in danger for someone they don't even know?   Add on the fact that from day one of EMT training, on through Paramedic school, "scene safety" and "Your safety before anyone elses"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just a thought.

And on that same line as scene safety is " identify the need and call for additional resources."

Whether by snow, crushed auto, house on fire, building collapse, etc. When you cannot get to your patient, it becomes a rescue operation. When you do not provide rescue in your role, you call those who do.


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