# I'm Suspended.... Or am I?



## emtCourt31 (Mar 11, 2010)

Ok some of you have read my thread called "Would you work for this company?" Well........ I've seriously about had it with this company.

So heres the new story.

On Sunday I was working a 24 CCT shift (8am-8am). My partner and I get there at 8am, and our unit 205 was not back from running BLS calls yet. So we waited around for 2 hours and then our dispatcher told us to go check out rig 401 for the other CCT shift thats coming on at 11am. So we did that, we loaded it up, checked all the equipment, oil, transmission fluid, etc. We come back in and wait for a little longer. Our rig 205 comes back and some how the keys never got transfered to our unit. Normally when you come in we hand our keys, radio, and gas card to the dispatcher and she logs it. Then we check them out. Some how the keys went missing (went home in someone pocket.) Anyways our unit didnt have a single call until 10pm. When 10 came around we put our stuff into another rig and left for our call. The next morning our managers and the owner were furious. They blamed us for the keys going missing and said that we failed to properly check out our rig. Mind you we couldnt check our rig properly because we didnt have keys.

Our managers placed us on suspension, however my partner and I never signed a paper stating our rights and that we are aware we recieved the suspension. If I'm correct we were supposed to sign a piece of paper. This all happened on monday and today they finally called me to come in tomorrow and "Talk." I've heard that since I didn't sign anything that I should be paid for the time I havent worked, and that I'm technically not suspended. I'm unsure with this whole process, I've never been fired or suspended before.

*Side note* a unit yesterday got to a call and realized they didnt have a gurney. No suspension for them...... 

I feel like I've been totally mistreated in this situation. It's not my partner and I's fault the keys went missing. The owners daughter was the dispatcher so you know I'm stuck between a rock and a hard spot. 

I honestly feel like quiting. They gave me a rig last week that had screws in its tires, in my mind thats not ok.

Feedback Please!


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## harkj (Mar 11, 2010)

It all depends on the company. The company I work for we get an interaction, which is were they "talk" to us about what happened. Then we get written up, it takes 3 writes for the same thing to get suspended. We have the option of signing our write ups and suspensions but you dont have to either way it still goes into your personnel file . Now I personally do not think you guys were treated fairly, but why sweat it. The company doesn't seem to be very nice to work for anyways.


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## looker (Mar 11, 2010)

Considering CA is at will state, they don't have to have you signed anything. Also,  you really do need to find a new company to work for ASAP. How in the world are they staying in business with so little calls?


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## DrParasite (Mar 11, 2010)

the signing of the paperwork is that you are aware of your rights.  you don't need to sign the paperwork to be suspended: otherwise, no one would ever sign them, and discipline would be impossible.

sounds like a :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty company.  I have taken keys home with me, it isn't something to lose sleep over, as long as they are returned.  it's also why both crew members have their own sets.  also, if the keys aren't turned over (like you said, keys fuel card, etc), and you don't tell a supervisor, it is your fault.  not suspension worthy, but it is your job to both check the rig and make sure you received all the proper equipment..

also think of it this way: if you aren't suspended, then  for the shifts that you didn't work, you have a string of no call/no show absences.  that's grounds for termination in many places. 

remember, until you have a new job all lined up, i wouldn't quit your current job.


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## MusicMedic (Mar 11, 2010)

emtCourt31 said:


> Ok some of you have read my thread called "Would you work for this company?" Well........ I've seriously about had it with this company.
> 
> So heres the new story.
> 
> ...




Well IMO, that is a rough situation... how long have you been placed on suspension? 

In Hindsight i would have written in a report that the keys were missing at the end of your shift

Im not sure how the rules go regarding the suspension maybe JPNIV can fill you in on that 

About the rigs, thats extremely dangerous and i realize that this is not your first time telling us about them, i would call CHP(California Highway Patrol) or the County Office and tell them about the unsafe operation of the vehicles and request an Inspection... (you can do it totally anonymously) 
from what i hear CHP is rigorous and strict about their inspections

another thing if you want to get the company in trouble for is if they are Operating the units with in LA County or LA City and the Units dont have a Sticker or proof of operation for that county (LA City DOT is strict about this)

P.S Who Goes on a call WITHOUT A GURNEY??? might as forget the oxygen and your brain as well

Id say Start looking for a New Job, and get away as fast as you can


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## looker (Mar 11, 2010)

Getting caught in city of la without a sticker is actually no big deal unless you get caught many times. If you get caught first time, you just pay a fine and that is it. You can drop off patients in city of la without having a sticker, you just can't just pick them up.

I would love to know how a vehicle went out with out a Gurney?


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## MusicMedic (Mar 11, 2010)

looker said:


> Getting caught in city of la without a sticker is actually no big deal unless you get caught many times. If you get caught first time, you just pay a fine and that is it. You can drop off patients in city of la without having a sticker, you just can't just pick them up.
> 
> I would love to know how a vehicle went out with out a Gurney?



yeah i heard its a fine for the company, also i heard if the driver dosnt have their DOT permit the company can get a fine to for picking up in LA City

i bring this up because the company she works for operates in LA County and i believe LA City


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## CAOX3 (Mar 11, 2010)

Sounds like you need a union .


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## FLEMTP (Mar 12, 2010)

oh.. yeah.. thats EXACTLY what they need... an organization backed by the liberal left with a thug mentality that comes in, takes the employees money, demands more out of a company in the way of wages and benefits, demands all kinds of changes, and "improvements" which is really designed to end up padding the union's pockets, until this particular small business owner can no longer afford the cost of doing business and shuts down... yeah.. thats PERFECT for the situation...


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## looker (Mar 12, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> yeah i heard its a fine for the company, also i heard if the driver dosnt have their DOT permit the company can get a fine to for picking up in LA City
> 
> i bring this up because the company she works for operates in LA County and i believe LA City



If you have unpermitted driver, attendant and vehicle, company will get fined for all 3 violation.


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## JPINFV (Mar 12, 2010)

looker said:


> Getting caught in city of la without a sticker is actually no big deal unless you get caught many times. If you get caught first time, you just pay a fine and that is it. You can drop off patients in city of la without having a sticker, you just can't just pick them up.



Yep, you can drop patients off as well as pick up *the same* patient within 24 hours without a LA county endorsement (technically, and county EMT-B cert is good state wide, however there are ways the county gets around that) or the LA city permit. 



MusicMedic said:


> Im not sure how the rules go regarding the suspension maybe JPNIV can fill you in on that


Sorry... this is one situation I know nothing about. I've come close, but I've never been suspended. I have taken keys or pagers home plenty of times and depending on the situation, I've either had to go return them the same night or just bring them in the next time I worked (normally next day in that case). Misplaced keys is something that the company should have planned ahead and be prepared to deal with appropriately. No one should take keys home with them and 99.99% of the time it's an honest simply mistake, but it's a mistake that *will* happen at everyplace.


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## CAOX3 (Mar 12, 2010)

FLEMTP said:


> oh.. yeah.. thats EXACTLY what they need... an organization backed by the liberal left with a thug mentality that comes in, takes the employees money, demands more out of a company in the way of wages and benefits, demands all kinds of changes, and "improvements" which is really designed to end up padding the union's pockets, until this particular small business owner can no longer afford the cost of doing business and shuts down... yeah.. thats PERFECT for the situation...



Small business owner   I have an Idea you worry about him. 

Im worried about the person who just lost a days pay through no fault of her own, is put in unsafe working situations and subject to unfair disciplinary action.  

But that wouldnt concern you now would it, she can just go get another job right?


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## Aidey (Mar 12, 2010)

People accidentally take keys home with them on a semi-regular basis. The supervisors have the spare keys for every rig, so at the very least it can be unlocked and driven. The issue is when the paramedic takes the keys home because that key ring has the only key to the drug box in that ambulance. 

We've had several crews forget gurneys too, I think always at the hospital after dropping a patient.


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## Chimpie (Mar 12, 2010)

Aidey said:


> We've had several crews forget gurneys too, I think always at the hospital after dropping a patient.



 But don't you take the gurney back out to the rig after dropping off the patient? :unsure:


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## EMSLaw (Mar 12, 2010)

Chimpie said:


> But don't you take the gurney back out to the rig after dropping off the patient? :unsure:



That way generally works better than dumping the patient on the curb and putting the cot back in the ambulance before dropping off the patient.


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## looker (Mar 12, 2010)

CAOX3 said:


> Small business owner   I have an Idea you worry about him.
> 
> Im worried about the person who just lost a days pay through no fault of her own, is put in unsafe working situations and subject to unfair disciplinary action.
> 
> But that wouldnt concern you now would it, she can just go get another job right?



Here is little problem, in state of California you can fire all of those people that are in the union and hire new ones. Unemployment is high here, those that want to work as emt is also high so if you become part of union, you just get fired and good luck finding a new job.


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## reidnez (Mar 12, 2010)

That sounds like a blatantly awful company that really shouldn't be in business. Unfortunately, you have to consider yourself lucky for having a job right now. Don't quit until you have something else lined up, and try to keep a good relationship with your current company, so that you at least have the _option_ of using them as a reference later--whether you decide to or not.

Seriously, how does a truck go out without a gurney? Did they even open the back door and peek around, before they hopped in the cab?


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## VentMedic (Mar 12, 2010)

reidnez said:


> That sounds like a blatantly awful company that really shouldn't be in business.


 
How do you justify your statement based on the very little information provided by the OP? Because they are holding their employees accountable for their actions? It was not clarified by the OP if the missing keys were immediately reported. As mentioned, another set of keys could have been obtained from a supervisor and those that may have taken the keys could have been notified. 

The OP will also get to state his/her side when the "talk" is given. Not seeing their handbook, which I hope the OP has read by now very thoroughly, it is difficult to make any statement for the length of their proceedings or which offenses carry the most weight. Obviously those that don't get reported immediately by the person knowing about an incident will be reviewed more severely than those where the mistakes are noticed and corrective action is taken. 

I would consider a company to be blatantly awful if they did not hold their employees accountable for their actions. 

As far as a missing gurney, our ED usually ends up with a collection of them each day when two lazy partners each assume the other one will do all the work.


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## MusicMedic (Mar 12, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Yep, you can drop patients off as well as pick up *the same* patient within 24 hours without a LA county endorsement (technically, and county EMT-B cert is good state wide, however there are ways the county gets around that) or the LA city permit.
> 
> 
> Sorry... this is one situation I know nothing about. I've come close, but I've never been suspended. I have taken keys or pagers home plenty of times and depending on the situation, I've either had to go return them the same night or just bring them in the next time I worked (normally next day in that case). Misplaced keys is something that the company should have planned ahead and be prepared to deal with appropriately. No one should take keys home with them and 99.99% of the time it's an honest simply mistake, but it's a mistake that *will* happen at everyplace.




Oh, i just assumed haha sorry because you tend to have alot of answers to my questions ))) no offense i didnt mean to say you were the type to get suspended, just the type that usually has answers  

i agree with what u said about the keys, it will happen, and luckily our company gives us two keys, one for each partner and im sure we have spare back up keys in the office


and Vent, its not that fact that they held them accountable, its more a combination of everything, the OP posted another thread before this explaining about her problems with this company and their rigs as well as the paydays (checks bouncing, Missing Days) 
and IMHO a company that lets their Units operate with nail in their tire isnt the best company... 

Ive also been to this companies headquarters for an interview before and it really did seem shady

Unfortunately Ambo companies are dime a dozen here in Southern California


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## JPINFV (Mar 12, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> Oh, i just assumed haha sorry because you tend to have alot of answers to my questions ))) no offense i didnt mean to say you were the type to get suspended, just the type that usually has answers


No worries... I'm the weird type that will generally know the random things like that anyways.


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## VentMedic (Mar 12, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> and Vent, its not that fact that they held them accountable, its more a combination of everything, the OP posted another thread before this explaining about her problems with this company and their rigs as well as the paydays (checks bouncing, Missing Days)
> and IMHO a company that lets their Units operate with nail in their tire isnt the best company...
> 
> Ive also been to this companies headquarters for an interview before and it really did seem shady


 
Even the more reason the OP should know the company's policies and have careful documentation of any incident that would leave him/her holding the bag of blame.  If the keys are missing, notify the supervisor immediately and even have a written incident form prepared. If there is a nail in your tire, prepare a written incident form.  Leave a paper trail and apply them to the letter of the policies outlined in the company's P&P manual.    Accountability is two way street but if the EMTs don't see that, don't expect the company to.  They may expect very  little as it is from their employees and often they aren't proven any different. 



MusicMedic said:


> Unfortunately Ambo companies are dime a dozen here in Southern California


 
EMTs are also a dime a dozen and for every position that opens up, several dozen more applicants will be there attempting to fill it.   The ambulance companies know there will be many more new minted 110 hour EMTs being churned out in the mills every month and more flocking to sign up after each episode of "Trauma".


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## MusicMedic (Mar 12, 2010)

That is very true, the OP should have documented everything, as they say "if its not written down it didnt happen"

and yes EMT's are also dime a dozen here in CA, i remember when i applied to pacific ambulance, i had to fight for one of 8 spots in pool of 38 Interviewees (im sure there was alot more who applied) 

needless to say i failed 

and yes unfourtunatly the reason these shady companies stay open because there are a 1000 emts willing to jump into these positions, until there is a less of a demand (which wont be for a while) these companies will stay open


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## FLEMTP (Mar 12, 2010)

CAOX3 said:


> Small business owner   I have an Idea you worry about him.
> 
> Im worried about the person who just lost a days pay through no fault of her own, is put in unsafe working situations and subject to unfair disciplinary action.
> 
> But that wouldnt concern you now would it, she can just go get another job right?



Hey, anytime someone faces loss of income due to discipline issues, it sucks, I know..im not saying that Im not concerned about her.

I would encourage the OP to look for other employment if she isnt happy...but people on here need to remember there are three sides to every story... her side... her employers side, and the truth is in the middle...something that I've had to learn in law enforcement especially.

Her post does make it seem like her employer is the worst place in the world to work.. and if the events as she has written them are factual.. then yes, I feel bad for her.

On the other hand, what we dont know is whether or not she has lost 9 sets of keys before.. or has been late habitually, or has otherwise cause her own demise in this organization....people are posting based on her word alone.

Either way, whether this was just progressive discipline that reached the point of suspension, or whether this was a first offense, I would encourage her to remedy the situation, by either sitting down with her supervisors and talking things over.. or moving to a different organization that is a better fit for her... mainly because she does not seem happy there.

Also, to address your comment about the small business owner... 

Small business is the backbone of our economy at this point...and small business as a whole employs a very large percentage of our working adults in the US..if we start to lose more small business, or we continue to suffocate small business with things like higher taxes and unions, then our economy will continue to suffer. Unions do exactly that.. they suffocate and kill anything they get involved in....and expect special treatment. 

Case in point.. the health care bill that has been front and center... when Obama decided to tax health care plans over 24k a year, the unions threw a fit because they are one of the largest groups who benefit from the 24k a year plus plans.. so they went to the President and whined, and he caved to their special interests, and changed things so that UNIONS and ONLY UNIONS would be exempt from taxes on those health care plans.. they expected special treatment, mainly because they donated HUGE amounts of money to get Obama elected.

Another case in point.. and this is an example not of a small business that the Unions killed.. it was a huge multinational multibillion dollar industry.. the auto industry.. they have all but destroyed the big three automakers with increasing salary demands, increasing benefit demands, and insane programs like "job banks" that cost the autoworkers millions of dollars a year, dont benefit the automakers, and is just designed to keep the unions pockets filled with dues paying members...

this same situation of collapse happens with small business, it just happens on a much shorter timeline...it took so long for it to catch up with the big three because they were so large and were able to absorb the cost for so long...think medicare/social security...we pay out more in benefits than we take in right now...which is what the automakers had to do for years.. and the house of cards finally collapsed!

So, the point of all this ... is that yes, i am concerned about the young lady that lost a day of wages, but im also concerned about keeping all of her other coworkers employed.


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## 46Young (Mar 12, 2010)

This post is more for general knowledge in dealing with IFT companies. This could also be applied to any employer, I suppose. 

Look into pre paid legal. Find out if your monthly payment will cover legal representation and such. It's usually 25-30 dollars a month, and covers all kinds of situations that require otherwise expensive legal counsel. 

These private companies bank on the assumption that most of their employees are young, naive, and will generally not have the experience, funds, or knowledge to fight management when they try to get over on you. 

I've seen it time and time again. Management gives favoritism towwards certain people, and punish others harshly. They fabricate new policies on the fly to address certain issues without properly avising everyone. What happens is that they eventually come across someone who knows what they're doing, and get a legal b**** slap from their attorney. Then their SOP's and policies change accordingly, and that favoritism crap is put to a stop. Usually when faced with competent legal representation management will back off, and will likely never bother you again.

I have a few words of advice: 

First, advise dispatch of any issues via a taped landline, not by nextel, which is unrecorded. This should include advising of an unchecked vehicle if getting a call right away, any pt care issues, mechanical issues, delay on the floor due to staff, PPW, no bed available, etc. Make a note on your PCR regarding a L/L pt contact with the time if applicable. If you speak to a supervisor, it might be a good idea to advise dispatch via L/L regarding their orders.

Fill out incident reports for everything, and make your own copies before turning them in. same for PCR's, as someone may attempt to alter the incedent report or PCR.

Same thing for mechanical issues. Management may try to stick you with the tow bill, saying that you could've driven the vehicle. In fact, you may be ordered to drive an unsafe vehicle. On the other hand, they may try to stick you with a share of the repair bill if you drive a vehicle that is unsafe. They'll feign ignorance to any knowledge of the matter. Use the radio and a L/L.


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## looker (Mar 12, 2010)

46Young, i am not sure if you have ever use prepaid legal but i have. I would not advice anyone from buying the service because in my eyes it's a scam. California is at will state, so OP can be fired at anytime for almost anything as long as it's not one of the protective reasons.


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## Bloom-IUEMT (Mar 12, 2010)

FLEMTP said:


> Also, to address your comment about the small business owner...
> 
> Small business is the backbone of our economy at this point...and small business as a whole employs a very large percentage of our working adults in the US..if we start to lose more small business, or we continue to suffocate small business with things like higher taxes and unions, then our economy will continue to suffer. Unions do exactly that.. they suffocate and kill anything they get involved in....and expect special treatment.
> 
> ...



FYI, the big three destroyed themselves by being wasteful, inefficient, and most of all did not do enough innovating to compete in a foreign market.
And it wasn't the unions who decided it might be a good idea to destroy the US economy.  Unions are there to protect workers because obviously our government can't do that. SOME unions are bad; some are good. The idea was to pass some of the bizillion dollars of profit to the workers who were....well.....doing a lot of the work.  This is especially important when we realized that overall industrial output increases like Moore's Law for decades despite increases in layoffs while workers' wages remain mostly stagnant in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really that big on unions especially when a person pressing a button on a sheet metal press for 8 hours can make $60,000/yr while pilots and elementary school teachers live on food stamps, but this country isn't big on protecting workers.


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## emtCourt31 (Mar 12, 2010)

*Update!!!!!!*

Ok so I got fired today....

To answer all of your questions. I have documented every wrong finding with a rig. It was company policy to fill out a ending report at the end of every shift and there was a box for things that needed to be fixed on the ambulance. You bet I was the one that always filled those in. I even refused to check out a rig that had exhaust problems, and documented it. I have pictures and videos of problems also.

Someone stated that they didnt know if I've lost keys before. NEVER! The keys ended up being found in a couch cushion because the crew before us were on 24s and took a nap and they fell out. Like I said they never were transfers to us. We did report it to a supervisor. The owners do not have backups which is dumb.

I've never been late, never missed a shift. If my supervisor called me to pick up a shift I did. Once I worked 12 straight days.

Anyways the operations manager said the reason they were firing me was because we didn't properly check out our rig. Mind you we couldnt check it out because we didnt have keys and they knew this. Ever since this guy came on things have been worse. He worked for Doctors and Lynch and I havent heard one nice thing about him.

When they were handing me my finally check I mentioned there was no sense of quality improvement. We learn about this in EMT school.

*side note* someone was fired for losing a gas card on wednesday. The 2 people who didnt have the gurney are still working. 4 people I was hired with put their two weeks in. And finally they are being reported to OSHA.


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## 46Young (Mar 12, 2010)

looker said:


> 46Young, i am not sure if you have ever use prepaid legal but i have. I would not advice anyone from buying the service because in my eyes it's a scam. California is at will state, so OP can be fired at anytime for almost anything as long as it's not one of the protective reasons.



I haven't used prepaid legal personally. I know they're handy for consultation and maybe some legal documants. I don't know much otherwise. What did you find out about them regarding scams?

Is "at will" the same as "right to work"? I've worked in right to work states, and also for a non union hospital in NY for five years. I had to sign the paper that says "You may terminate your employment at any time, for any reason, and we reserve the right to do the same". I do know that you need a paper trail to fire someone regardless. The employer still needs to have a valid reason to let someone go.


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## JPINFV (Mar 12, 2010)

Right to work= No closed union shops 

At will= employment can be terminated at any time by either party.


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## 46Young (Mar 12, 2010)

Bloom-IUEMT said:


> FYI, the big three destroyed themselves by being wasteful, inefficient, and most of all did not do enough innovating to compete in a foreign market.
> And it wasn't the unions who decided it might be a good idea to destroy the US economy.  Unions are there to protect workers because obviously our government can't do that. SOME unions are bad; some are good. The idea was to pass some of the bizillion dollars of profit to the workers who were....well.....doing a lot of the work.  This is especially important when we realized that overall industrial output increases like Moore's Law for decades despite increases in layoffs while workers' wages remain mostly stagnant in comparison.
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not really that big on unions especially when a person pressing a button on a sheet metal press for 8 hours can make $60,000/yr while pilots and elementary school teachers live on food stamps, but this country isn't big on protecting workers.



In addition to that, EMS, fire, and police unions aren't the same as private unions. Apples and oranges. It's different when it's illegal to strike. There are no lockouts lasting several months and such. Emergency services can't just walk off the job or be outsourced to India either. Also, unions in right to work states don't have collective bargaining, and make gains through political influence and effective lobbying. Membership isn't mandatory, either. 

My union has done a fantastic job of safeguarding our current position from those that are jealous and resentful of what we have. That alone is worth the cost of my dues. Not to mention that we make 30-40% more than the best paying depts below us and in the Carolinas, where they have to put in more years for retirement, at a lower multiplier, having to accept policies and SOP's designed to be advantageous to the employer, and being powerless to fight or change them.


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## 46Young (Mar 12, 2010)

emtCourt31 said:


> Ok so I got fired today....
> 
> To answer all of your questions. I have documented every wrong finding with a rig. It was company policy to fill out a ending report at the end of every shift and there was a box for things that needed to be fixed on the ambulance. You bet I was the one that always filled those in. I even refused to check out a rig that had exhaust problems, and documented it. I have pictures and videos of problems also.
> 
> ...



WTF? At least you got a check for your last two weeks. Assuming it doesn't bounce. Maybe don't mention them on any future applications.


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## MusicMedic (Mar 12, 2010)

emtCourt31 said:


> Ok so I got fired today....
> 
> To answer all of your questions. I have documented every wrong finding with a rig. It was company policy to fill out a ending report at the end of every shift and there was a box for things that needed to be fixed on the ambulance. You bet I was the one that always filled those in. I even refused to check out a rig that had exhaust problems, and documented it. I have pictures and videos of problems also.
> 
> ...




It seems like they are exploiting the fact that there is a Influx of EMT and so they fire anyone that dosnt agree with them..

well start looking for a job, youll have to explain in your interviews about why you got fired if they bring it up, be honest... 

about the rigs not working right, i would call up CHP tommarow explain to them that the rigs are not in operable condition. It seems to me that the company isnt doing much to fix the rigs..

heres the inspection checklist for CHP
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/291785/...-FOR-SELF-CERTIFICATION-OF-VEHICLE-COMPLIANCE

Lucky at my company, when we report a mechanical problem or any problem with the vehicle they immediately fix it, we have an awesome In House Mechanic, hes always fixing something....

but alas it seems to me that it might be a blessing in disguise that u got fired from them... run far away from them as possible... 

and im am SOOO GLAD i didnt get hired by them 


P.S people stop making this thread an argument about Union V. Non-Union


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## JPINFV (Mar 12, 2010)

Hmm... I'd kinda of be interested to see if anyone currently works at Lynch is on here. If someone that used to be at Lynch is now the ops manager there and a bunch of other upper management is now at CRA in Riverside, I wonder if things have gotten better since they've cleaned house.


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

emtCourt31 said:


> . And finally they are being reported to OSHA.



If you think OSHA will you do anything about it, you're wrong. This basically should either be handled by chp or ladot


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## MusicMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> If you think OSHA will you do anything about it, you're wrong. This basically should either be handled by chp or ladot



I agree


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

46Young said:


> I haven't used prepaid legal personally. I know they're handy for consultation and maybe some legal documants. I don't know much otherwise. What did you find out about them regarding scams?
> 
> Is "at will" the same as "right to work"? I've worked in right to work states, and also for a non union hospital in NY for five years. I had to sign the paper that says "You may terminate your employment at any time, for any reason, and we reserve the right to do the same". I do know that you need a paper trail to fire someone regardless. The employer still needs to have a valid reason to let someone go.



Consulation with prepaid legal is free, however understand that you might wait as long as 8 hours before a lawyer calls you back. The reason why i call them scam is because while they say they will write as many letters as it takes in reality that is not the case.


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## 46Young (Mar 13, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> It seems like they are exploiting the fact that there is a Influx of EMT and so they fire anyone that dosnt agree with them..
> 
> well start looking for a job, youll have to explain in your interviews about why you got fired if they bring it up, be honest...
> 
> ...



Whenever a thread regarding the employee gettting mistreated by management, the "U" word will inevitably be introduced into the discussion at some point.


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> If you think OSHA will you do anything about it, you're wrong. This basically should either be handled by chp or ladot



Yep. A lot of OSHA complaints are investigated by the reported agency and reported back to OSHA themselves. I've seen 2 OSHA complaints at different places (both, to be honest, were pretty lame) and the response to both was the organization just posted a rebuttal and that was it.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> EMTs are also a dime a dozen and for every position that opens up, several dozen more applicants will be there attempting to fill it.   The ambulance companies know there will be many more new minted 110 hour EMTs being churned out in the mills every month and more flocking to sign up after each episode of "Trauma".



Which is why we need higher education standards.  As I have stated in previous posts I think EMT should be a 2 year program and Paramedic a 4 year degree.


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> Which is why we need higher education standards.  As I have stated in previous posts I think EMT should be a 2 year program and Paramedic a 4 year degree.



What you are proposing will not happen anytime soon if ever. The problem is that  EMT is a trade degree. People that are going in to it do not want to be in school, learning english, math etc.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> What you are proposing will not happen anytime soon if ever. The problem is that  EMT is a trade degree. People that are going in to it do not want to be in school, learning english, math etc.



Here in Canada in the province of Ontario in order to be a Primary Care Paramedic which is BLS (roughly equal to an EMT-I) you have to have a 2 year college diploma.  At the University of Toronto they have a 4 year BSc in paramedicine and in the province of Alberta there is Medicine Hat College which offers another bachelors degree program in paramedicine.  Here in Canada EMS is a career profession not a trade.  The Government of Canada has a medal to be awarded for EMS worker for 20 yrs service in EMS it is called the Emergency Medical Service Exemplary Service Medal.  I think it will happen here in Canada first.  Here in Canada our version of EMT-B which is called Emergency Medical Responder is primarily used in industrial settings as well as rural settings.  Here in the NWT we will be finally getting legislation regarding EMS and the minimum education required will be EMT/PCP (equal to EMT-I).


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> People that are going in to it do not want to be in school, learning english, math etc.



Students don't get to set the graduation requirements anyplace, so what a student wants to learn compared to what is or should be required is irrelevant.


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Students don't get to set the graduation requirements anyplace, so what a student wants to learn compared to what is or should be required is irrelevant.



Sure they do, with their money. As long you pass standardized test you become an emt. Students can decide what school they give their money, base on graduation requirement.


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2010)

...yes... and government can set minimum requirements that aren't effected by the whims of the student. See the Flexner report and subsequent reforms for a good example.


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> ...yes... and government can set minimum requirements that aren't effected by the whims of the student. See the Flexner report and subsequent reforms for a good example.



Government might add extra requirement in terms of skills but it's very unlikely that industry going to require associate or bachelor degree.


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> What you are proposing will not happen anytime soon if ever. The problem is that EMT is a trade degree. People that are going in to it do not want to be in school, learning english, math etc.


 


looker said:


> Government might add extra requirement in terms of skills but it's very unlikely that industry going to require associate or bachelor degree.


 
This means the textbooks for EMT and Paramedic will continue to be written at the 8th and 10th grade levels.

If one doesn't have the education to back up the skills, these skills will not do the patient much good if the provider is clueless as to why and when.  

If one can not do basic math, Algebra preferred, they should not be working with any medications.

If one can not communicate effectively either by speaking or writing they will be very limited in health care.


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> This means the textbooks for EMT and Paramedic will continue to be written at the 8th and 10th grade levels.
> 
> If one doesn't have the education to back up the skills, these skills will not do the patient much good if the provider is clueless as to why and when.
> 
> ...



The reality is that at the end of the day it's all about profit. The reason why OP was driving vehicle which were in bad shape is direct result of profits. If industry changes the standard and requires associate degree for emt and bs for paramedics, the pay scale will have to go up. Who in the right mind would spend 2/4 years in school and not make much money at the end of the day? That is the main reason why degree will unlikely to be required for ambulance service.


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> The reality is that at the end of the day it's all about profit. The reason why OP was driving vehicle which were in bad shape is direct result of profits. If industry changes the standard and requires associate degree for emt and bs for paramedics, the pay scale will have to go up. Who in the right mind would spend 2/4 years in school and not make much money at the end of the day? That is the main reason why degree will unlikely to be required for ambulance service.


 
You've got a lot to learn about reimbursement for professional services. Take note that all the other health care professions have learned this and are taking home nice paychecks which grew quickly once they achieved professional status.

But don't worry. There will always be a union around for you to throw money at that will see you will never have to endure such cruel punishment as getting an education.


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

Now back to the thread...

emtCourt31,

Did your employer know you were posting your complaints in an open  forum on the internet?


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> You've got a lot to learn about reimbursement for professional services. Take note that all the other health care professions have learned this and are taking home nice paychecks which grew quickly once they achieved professional status.
> 
> But don't worry. There will always be a union around for you to throw money at that will see you will never have to endure such cruel punishment as getting an education.



I am an owner, so I can't stand unions  and for the record i have bachelor degree in finance


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> I am an owner, so I can't stand unions  and for the record i have bachelor degree in finance


 
An owner of what?  With a degree in finance, are you working as an EMT?

If you have a degree in finance, did you at least have one class that discussed reimbursement?  

From your statements it seems you are very naive about the subject.


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## looker (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> An owner of what?  With a degree in finance, are you working as an EMT?
> 
> If you have a degree in finance, did you at least have one class that discussed reimbursement?
> 
> From your statements it seems you are very naive about the subject.



I am not an emt, i am owner of both nemt and ambulance company. Been in nemt for over 10 years and recently got in to ambulance transp.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> I am an owner, so I can't stand unions  and for the record i have bachelor degree in finance



That explains why you are opposed to the EMS field requiring more education.  Here in Canada a majority of EMS is run by governments of various levels and health boards.


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> I am not an emt, i am owner of both nemt and ambulance company. Been in nemt for over 10 years and recently got in to ambulance transp.


 
Then you should know about the different levels of reimbursement that can be obtained.  You should also know how other health care professions function as businesses to get insurance (public and private) dollars.   Their bargaining has been done primary through education and data showing the educated professional can produce patient care results better than a minimally trained tech.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 13, 2010)

looker said:


> Government might add extra requirement in terms of skills but it's very unlikely that industry going to require associate or bachelor degree.



The industry might not but the government could start legislating education requirements for EMS.


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## VentMedic (Mar 13, 2010)

fortsmithman said:


> That explains why you are opposed to the EMS field requiring more education. Here in Canada a majority of EMS is run by governments of various levels and health boards.


 
He can keep them at minimum wage and make them feel vulnerable with knowing there are many more EMTs waiting to get a job.


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## mycrofft (Mar 13, 2010)

*OP, good luck.*

When or if you apply to another company, don't go into this unless you are forced to, then keep it constrained to dates and reason ("On XX/XX/XXXX I was suspended then terminated on XX/XX/XXXX for allegedly doing XYZ"; however, a simple "professional and schedule incompatibility" will usually suffice). Not that I have a lot of experience, but don't ride a bad job into the ground and wait for them to fire you.

Taking videos and pictures make people crazy. Suggest you lay off unless you are a cousin of Mike Meyers or looking to sue someone. Buy a nice Dayrunner with leather or sim leather cover, and use it to take notes on vehicle inspections or when you are called into the boss's office.


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## emtCourt31 (Mar 13, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Now back to the thread...
> 
> emtCourt31,
> 
> Did your employer know you were posting your complaints in an open  forum on the internet?




The owner never met me until the day I got suspended. Management is MIA in this company.


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## Tonester (Mar 14, 2010)

The California Division of Labor Standards Enforcement (DLSE) treats unpaid suspensions like layoffs. Under California law, if an employee is laid off or suspended without pay, and without a definite return-to-work date within the same pay period, the employee is legally deemed to have been terminated as of the date of the layoff or suspension. 

This means a laid-off or suspended employee must be paid all earned wages and benefits (including earned but unused vacation or PTO time) on the day that the employee last performed any work. 

If you don’t, the employee will be entitled to receive waiting time penalties—calculated as 8 hours of pay for each day that the employee must wait for his or her final pay, capped at 30 days. 

So if an employee is suspended during an investigation into possible misconduct and then is ultimately fired for good cause, you could still end up owing the employee additional pay for each day of the investigation period. If the employee sues you in court to get the waiting time penalties, you might have to pay the employee’s legal fees as well.

In order to avoid liability for waiting time penalties during unpaid suspensions, investigations into employee misconduct should be completed within the pay period in which the employee is suspended.

I'd also read up here:

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/DLSE-FAQs.htm


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