# Narcotic carrying case



## MedicineMan975

I was wondering if anyone out there could recommend a good, pocket-sized carrying case for narcotic ampules/vials. At the moment, I'm working for a company that requires medics to carry their issued narcs on their person while on duty, as opposed to a unit mounted safe. Now, at the moment I'm using an old Glucagon case. And while it has performed admirably, it is lacking when all is said and done. Basically, I'm on the lookout for a case that can accommodate two (II) 1mg/1mL short vials of Morphine and two 10mg/2mL Carpuject vials of Diazepam. Preferably a hard case, pocket sized, able to securely store contents without much rattling about, and with some sort of locking mechanism for the lid. Tall order I know, but I figure somebody out there must have some insight. 

Also, I have received a few hard cases as gifts recently, and while they are ideal for what they are designed for they are not what I would call "EMS friendly". Not to name any names but,"caveat emptor" when looking at either the _Pelican 1030 Microcase, _the OtterBox 2000, or the Armadillo Hard Storage Case by NAR. They are all either too bulky with inadequate storage space or tons of space but the size of an old Sega GameGear. Now dont get me wrong, I loved me some Sonic the Hedgehog or MortalKombat on the go back in the day, but it wasn't very convenient to go lug one in your pocket.Anyway, any recommendations would be nice. Thanks in advance.


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## firecoins

I recommend a hard case.  You din't want any vials breaking.  To much paperwork


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## rescue99

MedicineMan975 said:


> I was wondering if anyone out there could recommend a good, pocket-sized carrying case for narcotic ampules/vials. At the moment, I'm working for a company that requires medics to carry their issued narcs on their person while on duty, as opposed to a unit mounted safe. Now, at the moment I'm using an old Glucagon case. And while it has performed admirably, it is lacking when all is said and done. Basically, I'm on the lookout for a case that can accommodate two (II) 1mg/1mL short vials of Morphine and two 10mg/2mL Carpuject vials of Diazepam. Preferably a hard case, pocket sized, able to securely store contents without much rattling about, and with some sort of locking mechanism for the lid. Tall order I know, but I figure somebody out there must have some insight.
> 
> Also, I have received a few hard cases as gifts recently, and while they are ideal for what they are designed for they are not what I would call "EMS friendly". Not to name any names but,"caveat emptor" when looking at either the _Pelican 1030 Microcase, _the OtterBox 2000, or the Armadillo Hard Storage Case by NAR. They are all either too bulky with inadequate storage space or tons of space but the size of an old Sega GameGear. Now dont get me wrong, I loved me some Sonic the Hedgehog or MortalKombat on the go back in the day, but it wasn't very convenient to go lug one in your pocket.Anyway, any recommendations would be nice. Thanks in advance.



The company needs to be supplying a safe container for all narcs. It's insane that any employee be held responsible for the security of such a thing on his/her person. If one breaks? Then what? What if 3 break and it happens twice? At what point is the DEA gonna come knockin? Until something else is figured out, wonder if a pharmacy would have anything helpful?


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## Epi-do

I completely agree that supplying something should be the responsibility of your employer.  In the meantime, why not try to get ahold of the plastic box for an epi-pen or something similar?


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## MedicineMan975

Yeah, obviously I didn't make this one point clear. The Glucagon case I'm using right now? That is what my employer provided. And while I was filled with the same righteous indignation and furious anger at their paltry attempt to provide a protective vessel for the aforementioned narcotics as you and other posters are, alas it was for naught. It fell upon deaf ears. So, I decided to seek a solution outside the usual channels, and purchase a case as opposed to griping about it to those who would care less either way. 

As for the EpiPen container? A novel solution, if I were able to procure one. Unfortunately, that's a big "no go". My attempts to secure one have proved fruitless so far. But, thank you for the effort. My search continues...


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## MedicineMan975

rescue99 said:


> The company needs to be supplying a safe container for all narcs. It's insane that any employee be held responsible for the security of such a thing on his/her person. If one breaks? Then what? What if 3 break and it happens twice? At what point is the DEA gonna come knockin? Until something else is figured out, wonder if a pharmacy would have anything helpful?


Insanity is only viewed as such when it isn't the norm, my good man. And I'm curious to know what job field you have had the pleasure of being involved with that wasn't filled with a plethora of "Catch 22's" and bureaucratic mish-mash to drive those of us more logically inclined thinkers to want to shove pencils in our ears and eyes just to make the pain stop.

But to answer your hypothetical queries regarding accidental losses or DEA involvement, my answer is this. Mandatory drug testing once you have reported missing/damaged narcotics, followed by admin. leave until urine or saliva drug screen results have come back negative or positive. As for the DEA? Oh, don't worry. They have there jack boots on at the ready to come down upon any impertinent heathen's neck that dare taketh a taste from the scheduled manna in question. Just as soon as the company has their affairs in order and are ready to throw said employee to the lions.


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## rescue99

MedicineMan975 said:


> Insanity is only viewed as such when it isn't the norm, my good man. And I'm curious to know what job field you have had the pleasure of being involved with that wasn't filled with a plethora of "Catch 22's" and bureaucratic mish-mash to drive those of us more logically inclined thinkers to want to shove pencils in our ears and eyes just to make the pain stop.
> 
> But to answer your hypothetical queries regarding accidental losses or DEA involvement, my answer is this. Mandatory drug testing once you have reported missing/damaged narcotics, followed by admin. leave until urine or saliva drug screen results have come back negative or positive. As for the DEA? Oh, don't worry. They have there jack boots on at the ready to come down upon any impertinent heathen's neck that dare taketh a taste from the scheduled manna in question. Just as soon as the company has their affairs in order and are ready to throw said employee to the lions.



This man is a woman and before you carry around unsecured narcs, ask if it's even legal to do so. Last I knew all narcs had to be locked up when not on a call where meds may be needed. Perhaps it is different where you are from, eh?


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## reaper

Narcs must be locked up, if not on your person. It is legal to carry narcs on your person, as you are reasponsible for them.


While it does not lock, look to a metal cigar case. They are very sturdy, slim for pocket fit and the lids are pretty snug fit. Most are lined inside, for more protection.


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## MedicineMan975

rescue99 said:


> This man is a woman and before you carry around unsecured narcs, ask if it's even legal to do so. Last I knew all narcs had to be locked up when not on a call where meds may be needed. Perhaps it is different where you are from, eh?


My sincerest apologies for my assumption involving your gender, ma'am. I in no way meant for it to be an insult to either you or your significant other.

As for the "unsecured narcs" statement, I'll try and relay to you the way it has been put towards my queries along the same vein in the past. According to every supervisor, pharmacist, and over seer for the Dept of EMS in the great state of Mississippi I have spoken to on the subject their answers has been generally, if not uniformly, thus:

All narcotics are to be considered secured if carried upon a person while on duty if they meet the following criteria

1) The original seal of said narcotic shall considered the first indication of content integrity.
2) Said narcotic agents are to be carried in an "appropriate and secure manner" (which bacically means some sort of container that will ensure safe portage of the material involved).
3) Lastly, said agents are to be carried on one's person at all times during the performance of his or her duties while acting under duly acknowledged medical control for the service area. Once off-duty, they shall be stored in a secure stationary  container with a locking mechanism or relinquished to the on-coming medic (whichever the case may be for their particular working area).  

Now this is the case I have heard many times over from all parties that may be "in the know" on such matters. Supposedly having the seals intact, the vials secured for portage in a case and on my person at all times somehow equals up to "three steps of security" when it comes to narcotics being carried in the field. I hope I helped clear things up a bit. More likely than not, I've just muddied the waters even more. But...all of one, half of another as I always say.


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## MedicineMan975

reaper said:


> Narcs must be locked up, if not on your person. It is legal to carry narcs on your person, as you are reasponsible for them.
> 
> 
> While it does not lock, look to a metal cigar case. They are very sturdy, slim for pocket fit and the lids are pretty snug fit. Most are lined inside, for more protection.


FAR OUT! Finally, an avenue to run my dog down !lol Im going to start my investigation 
*toot suite.*


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## rescue99

MedicineMan975 said:


> My sincerest apologies for my assumption involving your gender, ma'am. I in no way meant for it to be an insult to either you or your significant other.
> 
> As for the "unsecured narcs" statement, I'll try and relay to you the way it has been put towards my queries along the same vein in the past. According to every supervisor, pharmacist, and over seer for the Dept of EMS in the great state of Mississippi I have spoken to on the subject their answers has been generally, if not uniformly, thus:
> 
> All narcotics are to be considered secured if carried upon a person while on duty if they meet the following criteria
> 
> 1) The original seal of said narcotic shall considered the first indication of content integrity.
> 2) Said narcotic agents are to be carried in an "appropriate and secure manner" (which bacically means some sort of container that will ensure safe portage of the material involved).
> 3) Lastly, said agents are to be carried on one's person at all times during the performance of his or her duties while acting under duly acknowledged medical control for the service area. Once off-duty, they shall be stored in a secure stationary  container with a locking mechanism or relinquished to the on-coming medic (whichever the case may be for their particular working area).
> 
> Now this is the case I have heard many times over from all parties that may be "in the know" on such matters. Supposedly having the seals intact, the vials secured for portage in a case and on my person at all times somehow equals up to "three steps of security" when it comes to narcotics being carried in the field. I hope I helped clear things up a bit. More likely than not, I've just muddied the waters even more. But...all of one, half of another as I always say.



I assume these are policies that are written somewhere so, I will take your word for it. Just never heard of the DEA allowing open carrying of narcs by any agency in the past. A gluc box isn't what I would consider secure. Kinda like having a PEZ container for vicodin.


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## firecoins

medics carry the narcs on them here.  I carry them in a normal case. The case is locked.  I have the keys.


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## JPINFV

I'm guestimating about volume sizes, but what about something like a hard eyeglass case? 

Add a little padding to remove the voids and drill a hole for a small lock.


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## trevor1189

Recently medics around here have had a similar dilemma. It used to be only narcotics had to be carried on their belt. (For that, most used a belt holder for a small flash light that they carried the carpuject style narcs in.)

Now it is everything must be locked up. So medics now have a small plastic container (much like in a fisherman's tackle box) and it is drilled to allow a small lock.

One thing I find very funny about these boxes is SL Lorazepam is actually kept in a mini altoids container with a small hole drilled in it and security seal. Not even joking.


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## MedicineMan975

LoL Yeah, at a few of my other jobs we could fit our narcs in an old Altoid tin. That was before everybody switched to the Carpuject style vials. It worked like a charm, believe it or not. Heck, at my last place of employment we were issued our narcs in a M&M Minis tube. I kid you not. Talk about ridiculous. Heck, some of the more macho of my coworkers dreaded drawing out the ones in the pink holder LoL. Tickled the piss out of me to see 'em get all worked up. Good times. 

But, I think I might just have found a solution to my problem. A few posts back, fella by the handle "reaper" suggested a cigar case. I figured what the hey, might as well. So I did a little searching on my fancy computing machine here and found what just might be the ticket. Cabela's offers a hard plastic carrying case with foam inserts designed originally for stogies(Cabela's Cigar Caddy Humidor). Only costs $20 or so bucks. And by the looks of it, might just work out.  So I'm going to see how that does me. But, in the meantime I'm still open to suggestions from everybody. For the most part folks on here have been helpful. Others? Not so much. But, guess you got to take the good with the bad most days.


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## MedicineMan975

_"I assume these are policies that are written somewhere so, I will take your word for it. Just never heard of the DEA allowing open carrying of narcs by any agency in the past. A gluc box isn't what I would consider secure. Kinda like having a PEZ container for vicodin."_




Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion, ma'am. I can appreciate it, but it still doesn't change the fact that it is what it is. I'm just a low man on this ol' totem pole, trying to get by with the burdens placed upon me by my betters. But, maybe if folks beside myself screw up bad enough with all these "free range" narcotics tripping the light fantastic down these Mississippi roads, I can look forward to just signing out a set of keys for a lock box on the unit. But, until then...guess I'm gonna have to make do.


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## rescue99

MedicineMan975 said:


> _"I assume these are policies that are written somewhere so, I will take your word for it. Just never heard of the DEA allowing open carrying of narcs by any agency in the past. A gluc box isn't what I would consider secure. Kinda like having a PEZ container for vicodin."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion, ma'am. I can appreciate it, but it still doesn't change the fact that it is what it is. I'm just a low man on this ol' totem pole, trying to get by with the burdens placed upon me by my betters. But, maybe if folks beside myself screw up bad enough with all these "free range" narcotics tripping the light fantastic down these Mississippi roads, I can look forward to just signing out a set of keys for a lock box on the unit. But, until then...guess I'm gonna have to make do.



Wasn't arguing. Feel for your concern in fact.


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## MedicineMan975

rescue99 said:


> Wasn't arguing. Feel for your concern in fact.


My sentiments exactly, madam.


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## Semperanger

*Carpuject carry case*



reaper said:


> Narcs must be locked up, if not on your person. It is legal to carry narcs on your person, as you are reasponsible for them.
> 
> 
> While it does not lock, look to a metal cigar case. They are very sturdy, slim for pocket fit and the lids are pretty snug fit. Most are lined inside, for more protection.



I hate to resurect an old thread, but I've recently been trying to solve the same problem and was wondering if the OP found a good solution.

My best so far mirrors the suggestion quoted above.  I have an old plastic cigar case that I tried before finding this thread.  I've attached a photo.  It isn't ideal, since the case doesn't lock (but these are my personal meds, so I'm not so concerned), and the fit isn't perfect.  It does offer pretty good crush-protection, however.  

Anyone come up with a better solution?


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## Veneficus

Perhaps I am a bit old school, but if your agency wants you to carry narcs around aren't they responsible to provide a container?

If you were an agency administrator, in order to cut down on the waste of broken narc containers, the paper work involved, etc. Wouldn't you have a vested interest in making sure this was not left to chance?

Why do employees put up with this crap?


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## DesertMedic66

This is what we use, just a smaller version. Ours has I think 6 compartments just big enough to fit a vial in them. And it still easily fits in a pocket. 

To secure them we have colored zip ties that are easy to beak off. 

And for anyone who fishes, yes these cases are for fishing haha.


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## Medic Tim

We have small belt pouches that hold 6 vials. They are heavy leather with plastic inside to keep the vials protected. They kinda look like a minitor pager case.


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## Aidey

Veneficus said:


> Perhaps I am a bit old school, but if your agency wants you to carry narcs around aren't they responsible to provide a container?
> 
> If you were an agency administrator, in order to cut down on the waste of broken narc containers, the paper work involved, etc. Wouldn't you have a vested interest in making sure this was not left to chance?
> 
> Why do employees put up with this crap?



What I can't figure out is why an EMT B would be carrying narcotics, even in Alaska. And they are his personal meds?


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## jjesusfreak01

Aidey said:


> What I can't figure out is why an EMT B would be carrying narcotics, even in Alaska. And they are his personal meds?



I carried narcs 1 time as an EMT-B. I was going to a standby event and I had to meet the medic at the event, so a chief signed them over to me, and then I had the chief cross sign them back in afterwards. I obviously was never tasked with dispensing them, just transporting them to a scene and back. Technically, I was never in control of the narcs at any point when we were "in-service".

Also, one of the local hospital based critical care flight transport services requires their medics to carry narcotics on their persons at all times.


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## Aidey

I understand that an EMT B may be in possession of narcs temporarily, I myself did it once in a situation similar to what you are describing. It occasionally happens where I work now since our narcs live in a lock box in the ambulance. If a medic is giving narcs on scene the EMT may be the one that gets them and puts them back. 

That wouldn't necessitate a personal carrying case though, which is why I'm confused. The only situation I can come up with is a military medic who is a NREMT B. I'm not sure if they carry narcs or not, but I bet the military has a standard issue carrying case for them if they do.


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## BorderDog

http://www.narescue.com/Armadillo_M...lackBlack-CN2BC02BC3EE25.html?BC=5DA433276F39 

I got some of these, and they are pretty nifty.


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## NomadicMedic

BorderDog said:


> http://www.narescue.com/Armadillo_M...lackBlack-CN2BC02BC3EE25.html?BC=5DA433276F39
> 
> I got some of these, and they are pretty nifty.




It's a velcro lined Pelican.


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## tacwear68

Pelican cases come in all sizes and use pull-foam inserts for specific sizing.


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## tacwear68

firefite said:


> This is what we use, just a smaller version. Ours has I think 6 compartments just big enough to fit a vial in them. And it still easily fits in a pocket.
> 
> To secure them we have colored zip ties that are easy to beak off.
> 
> And for anyone who fishes, yes these cases are for fishing haha.



Walmart has a range of sizes


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## Jon

I've seen tackle organizers (the clear plastic things), pencil cases, and Pelican cases/OtterBoxes. Everywhere I work currently has a double lock (seal+lock) on the narcs and they are left in the end pouch of the ALS bag.


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## medicdan

The three services i've worked for have all used the same case:
http://www.med-worldwide.com/narcotic-box-clear-top-lock-28-cnb-100-p73813
The idea is that it's clear so you can identify each med/expiration date, long so each capujet stands alone, and has a bolt holding it together-- with a numbered seal and lock. This is locked within a locked drug box, within a locked cabinet, within a locked truck.


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## mycrofft

*Parsing.*

1. The employer is responsible to equip you if it is required for the job, unless that is part of the contract that you equip yourself. Anything you buy that fails is your lookout.
2. Are you signing these narcs out then in every shift? Why? Can't they stop pilfering in their own company? Time for mandatory drug and hair testing. It is needless and risky pharmaceutical practice.
3. If ears are deaf, write memo for record, documenting dates, maybe times, and names of persons who told you this was policy. Send it email, registered mail. Not accusatory, just recording what you were told and by whom. This might not even be an official policy.

If it continues, consult a pharmacist (they are so tired of being treated like the Pez dispenser above they will welcome honest enquiries) or the local EMSA for a generic opinion, as through you were thinking about suggesting it, and see what their thoughts are, then pass them back to your bosses the same non-threatening way. Any verbal encounters from them you record (in your day planner you will go buy today) and carry around, or at least a nice spiral notebook in your pocket, and prominently pull out and open when something comes up, like being yelled at or something.

If you had a union, you could have your professional practices reps brig it up. It is not right.


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## MedicBrew

WOW!  Caring controlled substances on your person is NOT a safe practice. 

Some areas around here would get you a fractured skull if the public knew you had those goodies on your person all the times. 

The DEA requires that Controlled substances, especially schedule II drugs be secured behind at least two locks, if not under direct control, which is what you’re doing, but man is it dangerous. 

I feel for you guys that have that burden. I would not do it, AT ALL.


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## NomadicMedic

MedicBrew said:


> WOW!  Caring controlled substances on your person is NOT a safe practice.
> 
> Some areas around here would get you a fractured skull if the public knew you had those goodies on your person all the times.
> 
> The DEA requires that Controlled substances, especially schedule II drugs be secured behind at least two locks, if not under direct control, which is what you’re doing, but man is it dangerous.
> 
> I feel for you guys that have that burden. I would not do it, AT ALL.



I know plenty of places that require the medics to carry their narcs on them at all times. Trust me, if someone wanted to rob me for 400mcg of Fent, I'm not gonna put up much of a fight. 

Like most others here, we carry our narcs, double locked, in a small pelican case. There is room for Fent, versed, a couple of syringes, needles and a carpuject plunger. Works great for us.


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## Tigger

MedicBrew said:


> WOW!  Caring controlled substances on your person is NOT a safe practice.
> 
> Some areas around here would get you a fractured skull if the public knew you had those goodies on your person all the times.
> 
> The DEA requires that Controlled substances, especially schedule II drugs be secured behind at least two locks, if not under direct control, which is what you’re doing, but man is it dangerous.
> 
> I feel for you guys that have that burden. I would not do it, AT ALL.



Every medic I know where I work carries them on their person and not one of them has had or has heard of anyone having an issue simply because the narcs are in a shirt pocket. If someone really wants to rip an EMS crew off for a small amount of narcotics, a locked pelican case is not going to stop them.


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## MedicBrew

Tigger said:


> Every medic I know where I work carries them on their person and not one of them has had or has heard of anyone having an issue simply because the narcs are in a shirt pocket. If someone really wants to rip an EMS crew off for a small amount of narcotics, a locked pelican case is not going to stop them.



I’m not doubting you, don’t get me wrong that’s just not a practice I’ve heard of before. Seems kind of dangerous to me. I would not be comfortable with that at all. I happy to hear no one has had an issue or been assaulted though. 

We have a HUGE meth problem here and if the twickers knew you have downers on you, they wouldn’t hesitate to “acquire” them from a medic. 

We carry Fent 300mcg, 30mg MS, 30mg Valium, 15mg Versed, 200mg Demerol (not sure way, but we still have it), and 100mg Etomidate (it’s not controlled but it’s locked up with the others) and coming soon to an ambulance near you, dilaudid!. A Little too much to carry around on your person. Their locked up in a safe that’s secured to the unit.  

If you don’t mind me asking where are you guys located generally speaking, NE, NW, mid-west????


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## mycrofft

OP, you just  uncovered a hornets' nest.

In no way can a shirt pcket be construed as "double locked". (We went through a DEA audit once and the learning curve was steep, that was one we failed).

 Signing out the meds is supposed to be for two reasons, as far as I know: to give to a patient (and the patient's name is signed into the log),  or to transfer the med to another dispenser, which requires the closure of the originating log pages by two authorized signers (one usually the pharmacist) and origination of a new log page for the new dispensing location (pharmacy, "pill room", but not someone's pocket). These arre linked by the exclusive serial number on the secure packaging (bubble pack, "bug box", etc).

The "signing out"/log procedure establishes a second by second legal record of the chain of custody of this medicine. The two signers are the responsible parties.

I heartily encourage anyone being required to personally "check out" and carry narcotics/scheduled medicines on their person or an otherwise non-double locked storage (a duffle in the ambulance doesn't count) to contact your local pharmacy board and EMSA to find out what local law is.

The caution about buying your own equip still stands. Who buys the gear is responsible for its failure and damages subsequent thereto.


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## Tigger

MedicBrew said:


> I’m not doubting you, don’t get me wrong that’s just not a practice I’ve heard of before. Seems kind of dangerous to me. I would not be comfortable with that at all. I happy to hear no one has had an issue or been assaulted though.
> 
> We have a HUGE meth problem here and if the twickers knew you have downers on you, they wouldn’t hesitate to “acquire” them from a medic.
> 
> We carry Fent 300mcg, 30mg MS, 30mg Valium, 15mg Versed, 200mg Demerol (not sure way, but we still have it), and 100mg Etomidate (it’s not controlled but it’s locked up with the others) and coming soon to an ambulance near you, dilaudid!. A Little too much to carry around on your person. Their locked up in a safe that’s secured to the unit.
> 
> If you don’t mind me asking where are you guys located generally speaking, NE, NW, mid-west????



Front range Colorado area. Our medics do not carry that amount of narcs on them for what it's worth. Most carry enough to start care inside before moving to the truck, where the safe has the rest. Generally not more than 200mcg of fent and some Valium. They also have fire medics on scene who bring a drug box into every call (ambo does not have portable drug box), so more can be acquired on scene quickly if needed.


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