# There's someone in the back of our unit!



## Handsome Robb (Jun 10, 2013)

Had one hell of a week. Had two different occurrences. One was a large drunk man who decided he wanted to come after my partner and I. Resulted in panic alarms being activated and a rather rough scuffle trying to keep him from tearing one of our heads off.

Second was while posted near the end of our shift, all blacked out with only the map light on so I could chart and my partner could nap. Next thing you know a woman climbs in the box. We both get out and each go to a different door to find out what the heck is going on. Tried to be nice and find out if there was something we could help her with and she goes absolutely ballistic. Yelling and screaming at us, getting in my face and pointing her finger at me, thought she was going to hit me but she thought better of it and didn't touch either of us.

By this point I was fed up and requested PD, non emergent, and she heard that and bolts. We give a description and direction of travel and go back to what we were doing. PD shows up takes a report and we go home, they hooked her later and we had to go back out to ID her and do some paperwork, luckily we were already buried in PCRs and were still on the clock two hours after our shift ended.

Pressed charges on her, didn't on the first guy though.

Thankfully we made it out of both mostly unscathed. 

My questions are:

1) has anyone ever had this happen to them? If so, how did you handle it?

2) why does there seem to be this whole "just let it go" mindset when it comes to stuff like this? Had a few people at work tell me I shoulda just dropped the subject and let her walk off... Sure it's not violent but that's my office, I don't go barging into other people's offices and start berating them and cussing them out. 

3) in regards to the drunk gentleman that wanted to have a go, would you have pressed charges? Like I said, we didn't on the basis that he was extremely drunk and had the "lights are on but no one is home" look going. Had one of us been hurt it'd be a different story but we both escaped with minor cuts bruises and scrapes, thankfully. 

4) this guy was dead set on fighting us, many said we should have booked it back to the unit and drove off rather than going hands on with him but that would have meant separating since he was in between us.

Hindsight is 20/20, both were learning experiences and I have my thoughts on what I'd do differently, just wondering all of y'all's opinions. 

Stay safe out there boys and girls, the summer heat is bringing out the crazies.


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## Fire51 (Jun 10, 2013)

Man I swear the heat really does get to people, I think that no mader what people say you should have done they really can't say for sure because they weren't there, even if they have had it happen to them, it still wasn't the exact situation. For the drunk guy no I wouldn't press charges either, we all have been attacked by patients especially drunks. As for the women, if police were all ready called then i would still have reported it once they got there but dont know if i would pressed charges, like i said before i wasnt there so i cant say for sure. All I can say is I am glad to hear you and your partner are both ok, that is what really matters. Stay safe everyone in emergency work it seems like we are going to have a hot summer.


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## Wes (Jun 10, 2013)

We shouldn't tolerate being assaulted, no matter how minor.  Assault is assault.  Period.


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## phideux (Jun 10, 2013)

Wes said:


> We shouldn't tolerate being assaulted, no matter how minor.  Assault is assault.  Period.



If I ended up with cuts, bruises, and scrapes, and I have to activate a panic alarm, after a "scuffle" with a patient, that guy is going to jail.
I've had minor things go on that I've ignored, but that sounds a little more than minor.


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 10, 2013)

I agree. If I'm getting into it with a patient, he's going to jail. Drunk or not.


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## abckidsmom (Jun 10, 2013)

If I'm fighting someone and they hurt me, they are going to jail. 

There are certainly exceptions- post ictal people who are not gently handled can get violent, sometimes violent psychs are sick people- but "going hands on" should be a very very last resort and only when you have exhausted your verbal scene control techniques. 

The "let it go" attitude comes from laziness, typically. It's a total PITA to deal with pressing charges, court, etc, and people don't want to do that. Then there's a pride thing too, where people want to fight patients and subdue them and feel so cool because of it. 

I maintain strongly that the more boring your interactions, the fewer off the wall incidents you have, points to how well you do your job. Careful EMS is very boring, involves a lot of smiling and nodding and good customer service. That stuff prevents the badness.


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## abckidsmom (Jun 10, 2013)

And no matter what, someone in the back of the ambulance uninvited is going to jail unless there was a lion or something that chased her in there.


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## Arovetli (Jun 10, 2013)

Idk, I don't really care, and I wouldn't be one to press charges.

It's a worse insult to me to waste my time doing paperwork and going to court, and it's not going to "teach them a lesson", I mean...they are insane street walkers.

I wouldn't, but I also wore a badge for awhile, and if someone hit SWIM on the street, then SWIM would hit then back a hell of alot harder, and that was that. Ain't nobody got time for court, and SWIM isn't wasting his time.

Rumor was, SWIM would also pay that person a little special attention from time to time.

But from EMS standpoint, I don't know man, if its a serious assault sure.

To each his own. I like getting paid, going home, and taking care of people. I could really care less what happens outside of that. I raised enough hell in my younger days and now I find my life is alot more happier the less I care about dumb things someone else does. 

As was pointed out, you'd be amazed at how much can be avoided just by being chill and wise.


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 10, 2013)

Ripped from the headlines...

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_...sa-paramedic-arrested-for-assault-and-battery


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## chillybreeze (Jun 10, 2013)

just glad that ya`ll are ok!!


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## DrParasite (Jun 10, 2013)

Robb said:


> My questions are:
> 
> 1) has anyone ever had this happen to them? If so, how did you handle it?[


yeah, it sucks.  when possible, put as much distance or hard objects between you and the aggressor.  Doors are great, especially if you can lock them.





Robb said:


> 2) why does there seem to be this whole "just let it go" mindset when it comes to stuff like this? Had a few people at work tell me I shoulda just dropped the subject and let her walk off... Sure it's not violent but that's my office, I don't go barging into other people's offices and start berating them and cussing them out.


She sounds more crazy than anything else.  I probably would have had PD drag her away, and once she's away, out of sight out of mind.  pressing charges probably wouldn't have happened, especially if she was non-violent.





Robb said:


> 3) in regards to the drunk gentleman that wanted to have a go, would you have pressed charges? Like I said, we didn't on the basis that he was extremely drunk and had the "lights are on but no one is home" look going. Had one of us been hurt it'd be a different story but we both escaped with minor cuts bruises and scrapes, thankfully.


absolutely would have pressed charges.  Drunk or under the influence, if you attack me, or my partner, your getting taken down, preferably by the cops, and if they aren't there, than by me.  Than it's grab my partner and put as much space or hard objects between me and the aggressor, and let the cops take over.  And then criminal charges get filed.  

I've been extremely drunk in my life, but the thought to hit a uniformed person never crossed my mind.  it's not an excuse, and criminal charges should follow any and all assaults, even if they are minor.





Robb said:


> 4) this guy was dead set on fighting us, many said we should have booked it back to the unit and drove off rather than going hands on with him but that would have meant separating since he was in between us.


if you can make it back to the truck (safely) and drive away, do so.  If you go right and your partner can go left and make it to the truck, do it. If not, than put as much space or hard objects between him and you, and wait for assistance.

Glad to hear you made it out in one piece.


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## Melclin (Jun 11, 2013)

Out of uniform, its situation dependent. If I get into a blue at the pub and there has been beer drunk and insults exchanged, unless something was really dangerous or out of line, I take a boys will be boys and let it go, sort of attitude. 

In uniform, I look at it completely differently. Firstly, everybody has the right to feel safe at work. If someone burst into my mates office and smashed up his computer while he wrote iPhone apps, I think everyone would agree that guy gets nicked. Why is it any different for us? The ambulance is our workplace and we have a right to feel safe.

Secondly, we need to encourage an 'off limits' attitude to assaulting us much like the police. I think people need to be wary of assaulting or obstructing us just a little bit more than the average person. An increased deterrent to match the increased risk of violence. I suppose you could argue all day about whether or not such things work (in general I don't think they do), but I think it has value in this case. 

For those reason, if I were in your shoes, I'd have them both nicked.


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## armydawg11b (Jul 24, 2013)

Please excuse any ignorance I exude, I'm a complete noob. I literally just started looking into your craft, and started researching it as I hope to make my transition from the Army to EMT, and hopefully Para. I just had a question. Don't you all sign for the equipment and drugs in your trucks at the start of your shift?  I mean by the time you get into the back, confront the woman, then she bolts in the confusion you may not have realized she stole something. Do you do an inventory as soon as something like that happens?


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 24, 2013)

armydawg11b said:


> Please excuse any ignorance I exude, I'm a complete noob. I literally just started looking into your craft, and started researching it as I hope to make my transition from the Army to EMT, and hopefully Para. I just had a question. Don't you all sign for the equipment and drugs in your trucks at the start of your shift?  I mean by the time you get into the back, confront the woman, then she bolts in the confusion you may not have realized she stole something. Do you do an inventory as soon as something like that happens?



Yes, everything is checked out in the crew member's name. Can be the EMT or Medic for the monitor, radios, GPS and charting computer. The narcotics (used loosely, includes opiods and benzos) are checked out to the medic out of Pyxis with the assistance of their partner as a witness. 

Narcs would be tough to steal seeing as they're in my pocket and the other kit is double locked in a lock box behind a door with a digilock keypad. Each medic is assigned a combination so they can track who has opened which narc safes and when.

All other drugs are locked in a cabinet with a key lock. The keys for the narc safe, drug cabinet, posts, EMS rooms and other things are checked out of Pyxis with the narcs and gas card. The non-narcotic medications stay onboard the ambulance in a locked, temp controlled (sometimes...) cabinet. 

My bags are issued to me and it'd be pretty obvious if she had gotten into them but yes all critical equipment gets inventoried. It's not too hard to do with speed-loads since all you have to do is look and see if the cabinet is sealed or not. If its open you can open it and see which bins were popped inside that specific cabinet. 

Hopefully that makes sense and answers your question.


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## Kevinf (Jul 24, 2013)

If someone gets drunk and runs someone down we don't just ignore it because they were "out of their mind", neither do we ignore driving while drunk even when nobody gets run down. By the same token we should not ignore assault while drunk. No matter how you slice it that guy needs help, whether it be rehab, anger management, or anti-depressants. He won't get the help he needs if you just let him go on his merry way. Same for "crazy lady", something isn't right there... your typical person knows not to crawl into an ambulance and start screaming at people. She needs treated.


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## Anu (Jul 24, 2013)

I would've pressed charges on the woman for getting into the back of the ambulance.  It has more of a suspicious character than the drunk guy coming straight at you.  I can see why you wouldn't want to bother with the drunk.  

But seriously you shouldn't put up with that kind of behavior if it can be helped.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 24, 2013)

To clarify women was arrested as was the man. Both received charges but the two felony assault charges against the male were deferred by myself and my partner...PD left it up to us, "do you want to write a police report and press charges or do you want us to hook him for the other stuff we've got on him and just let it go" type of situation. Looking back we should have pressed on him but hindsight is 20/20.


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## yowzer (Jul 27, 2013)

I know places where if you don't lock all the doors and go out of sight of your ambulance, it'll either be stolen or somebody'll be sleeping in it by the time you return.  Usually you can just wake them up and shoo them out, no harm done.


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## Raptor (Jul 31, 2013)

Personally, I'd get more pissed off at the drunk, than at the woman. Drunk is not a mental issue or imbalance...that guy went out and got drunk. His being drunk is not a good excuse to have assaulted or threatened to assault me, next time don't get drunk. Mental illness, though, is rarely a choice, and trying to "punish" them is pointless.


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## PotatoMedic (Jul 31, 2013)

yowzer said:


> I know places where if you don't lock all the doors and go out of sight of your ambulance, it'll either be stolen or somebody'll be sleeping in it by the time you return.  Usually you can just wake them up and shoo them out, no harm done.



My bet is you work for trimed.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 31, 2013)

Raptor said:


> Personally, I'd get more pissed off at the drunk, than at the woman. Drunk is not a mental issue or imbalance...that guy went out and got drunk. His being drunk is not a good excuse to have assaulted or threatened to assault me, next time don't get drunk. Mental illness, though, is rarely a choice, and trying to "punish" them is pointless.



If she went running into an office building and did the same thing she'd be arrested, right? What is any different about my ambulance? 

I agree that mental illness is not chosen however drug use and medication non-compliance is.


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## Raptor (Jul 31, 2013)

Sorry, I meant to be a bit clearer...I was referring to the "pressing charges". Of course, they should both get the Silver Bracelet Award, but as far as wasting energy and time going to court, I'd fight a drunk over a EDP. A drunk may learn a lesson, but the EDP will still want to continue talking to Mars.


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## Fortion (Aug 26, 2013)

Wes said:


> We shouldn't tolerate being assaulted, no matter how minor.  Assault is assault.  Period.



i totally agree with you


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