# Tattoo Hatred



## BlueJayMedic (Feb 3, 2015)

So I am new here and enjoying this site a ton and have already learned more here than the last month of my advanced care classes!! I have also in passing noticed a common theme in some of these threads in regards to tattoo's and that is that there are a whole heap of people on here who think that anyone with a tattoo is automatically beneath them.  

You can rifle through the comments on the Nightwatch thread about how disgusting and unprofessional it is to have tattoos visible while working and other threads that talk about the "tatted up guy from the projects".  Am I the only one around that completely disagrees with this mentality? I understand we deal with an elderly population 8 times out of 10 and they may be the faster ones to judge but I find if you carry yourself in a professional manner and be polite to your patients than by the end of the call the majority of them won't be thinking about the tattoos you have.  

I know people without a single tattoo on their body who treat their patients like garbage and their uniforms look like they just crawled out of a sewer, thats my thought of unprofessionalism.  In that same thought I have met frequent fliers and abusers of the EMS system as well as drug addicts and people seeking narcotics without one single visible piece of ink on their skin. I am just curious as to why in this day and age it matters if you have a tattoo showing whether you are at work or not.  Does it have to do with growing up in a certain part of a country or socioeconomic class?  

I personally don't have any tattoos that are visible while I am at work but am curious as to why all the hate and judgement.  Sorry if this has been posted before, I did a quick search and couldn't find anything. 

PS if you have any neat ones you want to show off, leave them in a comment, I enjoy seeing different styles from around the globe.


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## Jim37F (Feb 3, 2015)

While I personally have 0 tattoos myself, I largely agree with you. Having spent nearly 8 years in the Army (5 yrs active, 3 in the Reserves) I was more the exception than the rule for not having tats among my peer group. There is some great art out there (and some not so great) and I personally know guys (and gals) that are outstanding, and that are d-bags, and in my anecdotal experience, having tatoos did not correlate at all.

That being said, my current department is very anti-tattoo, to the point where if you have any visible tatoos in the PT uniform (short sleeve t-shirt and shorts) is an automatic disqualification from being hired. So I doubt I'll be getting any anytime soon


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 3, 2015)

A lot of ignorant people living in the past. Tattoos to most people over the age of 20-25 are associated with trashy people/criminals, because, in reality, the tattoo world had been rampant with crappy work. Tattoos have come a long way and people are starting to see them for art rather than symbolic nonsense. 

I have 30 hours and continuing time under the needle. None of my tattoos are visible on duty, but that has nothing to do with my job. If you have tasteful and well done tattoos, show em off if your company allows. I've had old ladies and old guys randomly stop me to comment on a tattoo.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 3, 2015)

Jim37F said:


> While I personally have 0 tattoos myself, I largely agree with you. Having spent nearly 8 years in the Army (5 yrs active, 3 in the Reserves) I was more the exception than the rule for not having tats among my peer group. There is some great art out there (and some not so great) and I personally know guys (and gals) that are outstanding, and that are d-bags, and in my anecdotal experience, having tatoos did not correlate at all.
> 
> That being said, my current department is very anti-tattoo, to the point where if you have any visible tatoos in the PT uniform (short sleeve t-shirt and shorts) is an automatic disqualification from being hired. So I doubt I'll be getting any anytime soon


Is that par for the course from the area your from or is it just an upper management in your service kind of thing? 
Our service isn't allowed to discriminate however I do know of some students that wear long sleeves on the road and during their interviews/probation period. Once that's done they pull out the short sleeves and wear the ink proudly.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 3, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> A lot of ignorant people living in the past. Tattoos to most people over the age of 20-25 are associated with trashy people/criminals, because, in reality, the tattoo world had been rampant with crappy work. Tattoos have come a long way and people are starting to see them for art rather than symbolic nonsense.
> 
> I have 30 hours and continuing time under the needle. None of my tattoos are visible on duty, but that has nothing to do with my job. If you have tasteful and well done tattoos, show em off if your company allows. I've had old ladies and old guys randomly stop me to comment on a tattoo.


30 hours that's serious business. All not visible too, that's impressive as I'm sure they're not in the most comfortable spots. 

I find that my EMS one Sparks a lot of comments and questions from the older folks when it's short wearing weather. 
It just seems like it's taking forever for anyone to see it from an art and expression point of view.


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## Jim37F (Feb 3, 2015)

It's my department being more restrictive than the surrounding area. When they announced the requirement right before the written test, many applicants just got up and walked out because they couldn't pass that and there's no point testing if you're going to be DQ'd later on anyway..

Most other departments and private companies are fine-as long as you have like a neoprene sleeve, or a long sleeve uniform shirt on over top on duty


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 3, 2015)

BlueJayMedic said:


> 30 hours that's serious business. All not visible too, that's impressive as I'm sure they're not in the most comfortable spots.
> 
> I find that my EMS one Sparks a lot of comments and questions from the older folks when it's short wearing weather.
> It just seems like it's taking forever for anyone to see it from an art and expression point of view.



I think wearing shorts in EMS is far more offensive than tattoos. Lol


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## TransportJockey (Feb 3, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> A lot of ignorant people living in the past. Tattoos to most people over the age of 20-25 are associated with trashy people/criminals, because, in reality, the tattoo world had been rampant with crappy work. Tattoos have come a long way and people are starting to see them for art rather than symbolic nonsense.
> 
> I have 30 hours and continuing time under the needle. None of my tattoos are visible on duty, but that has nothing to do with my job. If you have tasteful and well done tattoos, show em off if your company allows. I've had old ladies and old guys randomly stop me to comment on a tattoo.


I'd say probably over the age of 30 or so. I'm 27 and have multiple tattoos, including several visible in a short sleeve uniform. With the exception of AMR, I've been lucky that none of my departments have required me to cover them up.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 3, 2015)

I'm fine with some tattoos. I lose all respect for someone if they have "Thug Life" or "Yolo" tattooed on their knuckles or a teardrop on their face. 

Our employees are more than welcome to have tattoos however they must be covered up at all times. Our area is also 90% geriatrics. For my area if we have an elderly patient with a tattoo it is very likely they were in the armed forces.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 4, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> I think wearing shorts in EMS is far more offensive than tattoos. Lol


I agree 100% especially when you have pale chicken legs like myself. I definitely meant outside of work shorts, no uniform shorts around here. I think fire may allow shorts in the summer though.


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## TransportJockey (Feb 4, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> I think wearing shorts in EMS is far more offensive than tattoos. Lol


Unless you're on an ems bike team i fully agree with you. I kmow RMI in Havasu let's their crews wear shorts, which looks odd. But they have to wear brush pants at MVCs and the like


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 4, 2015)

Our bike medic shorts are hilarious it makes the medics look like they are wearing full diapers and they're way too short. No avoiding showing the leg tats there in the summer. Tourists love the ink and the uniforms, generally.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 4, 2015)

I dint think the issue is anybody thinking others are "beneath them" as much as it's just about professionalism. the same can be said for purple hair or huge ear hole things.  We work in the service industry where appearances matter. Why? Because people judge you based on appearance before getting to know you. Think about who our customers are, hospitals, healthcare workers, and old people. 

That being said I have 4 tats and made sure when I got them that they wouldn't preclude me from working in  any profession I chose. I also removed both my earings when I started looking for EMS jobs...and cut my +shoulder length hair.


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## Amelia (Feb 4, 2015)

I immedietly thought if this! 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...SVK2BOOjgsATZhIKwCQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CB4QMygBMAE


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## JPINFV (Feb 4, 2015)

In this thread, people who make choices and then are upset that not everyone agrees with those choices, but then whines that it's the fault of the people who disagree with their choices and not themselves.


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 4, 2015)

JPINFV said:


> In this American culture, people who make choices and then are upset that not everyone agrees with those choices, but then whines that it's the fault of the people who disagree with their choices and not themselves.



Fixt it for you.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 4, 2015)

In my own opinion, it completely depends on the what and where your tattoo is...

Like Desert said, if you have "Murderer" across your neck or "T.H.U.G." on your fingers, or spider webs and tear drops, "Chicano", "13th street", "hooligan", "Insane clown posse", a nude woman or other distasteful "art" on you... You immediately lose all credibility and are assumed to have made or make irreversible poor choices - and I don't want you near me.  Period.

The word distasteful is very subjective... What I may find vulgar or unprofessional may be a very casual expression to another person. That is where you have the zero-tolerance policies; we can't be "fair" (which our entitled society demands) so we just eliminate the issue and say tats are a no-go.

I think that some tattoos are very cool. I think that neck/face/hand tattoos have no place in EMS. To echo the above... You can't make the choice to get a neck tattoo, then whine about people judging you and ridiculing you, when in the first place you wanted to be different from the rest and express your "rebel side" by getting a neck tattoo.

Rebels and professionals at large are two different breed. No matter how you slice it, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

On a completely different note is the way we in EMS gripe about how we are perceived .....

Do you see neck tattoos on firemen?

Do you see gauged ears on the policeman that asks for your license and registration?

Do you see PAs and RNs and MDs with earrings and hand tattoos in Converse and skinny jeans or leather jackets and studded jewelery?

I DO NOT want someone saying "well, I knew this one guy one time who had a (whatever) and he was just the greatest and grandmas loved him and he was paramedic-SWAT leader-Navy SEAL-police-doctor-ranger..." The answer is simply no overall... You don't because while on duty (and supposedly off duty) these people have to represent authority and professionalism and command of their trade. They must "look the part" if they want to be respected and trusted. Note, I am not saying people who have distasteful tattoos cannot be good at their trade or be good trusting people... I'm just stating the truth about my opinion and perspective.

We work in the public, and we have an audience. It is as simple as that. Body art that you cover or have a "normal" tattoo or your kids names or something legitimate or significant with a story to tell... great. Some patients may enjoy that story. But tacky, vulgar, unprofessional tattoos - nope.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 4, 2015)

SandpitMedic said:


> In my own opinion, it completely depends on the what and where your tattoo is...
> 
> Like Desert said, if you have "Murderer" across your neck or "T.H.U.G." on your fingers, or spider webs and tear drops, "Chicano", "13th street", "hooligan", "Insane clown posse", a nude woman or other distasteful "art" on you... You immediately lose all credibility and are assumed to have made or make irreversible poor choices - and I don't want you near me.  Period.
> 
> ...


I agree with everyone's comments in regards to neck tattoos and tear drop face tatts, that wasn't the point on my mind when I started the threat, obviously having a naked woman on your arm isn't going to fly when you go to pick up a paediatric patient. I am talking about the attitudes people automatically have the second tey see anything without asking about it. It's a preconceived opinion and it just seems rediculous. But what do I know I'm not lookin to have a conversation I am just whining about A choice I made right JPINFV??


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 4, 2015)

BlueJayMedic said:


> I agree with everyone's comments in regards to neck tattoos and tear drop face tatts, that wasn't the point on my mind when I started the threat, obviously having a naked woman on your arm isn't going to fly when you go to pick up a paediatric patient. I am talking about the attitudes people automatically have the second tey see anything without asking about it. It's a preconceived opinion and it just seems rediculous. But what do I know I'm not lookin to have a conversation I am just whining about A choice I made right JPINFV??



I don't hear many peeps walking around complaining about tattoos that they can't see and having attitude about it.  And now it does sound like you are whining.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 4, 2015)

beano said:


> I don't hear many peeps walking around complaining about tattoos that they can't see and having attitude about it. And now it does sound like you are whining


I don't have any anyone can see the topic wasn't about me specifically


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 4, 2015)

JPINFV didn't attack you specifically. You started a "conversation" and then mocked someone who disagreed with you. That's why I said it sounds like you are whining.

Back on topic: I put visible tats on the same scale as an untucked shirt. Personally I don't care and won't judge you as a human being, but I don't want to see it on the job.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 4, 2015)

SandpitMedic said:


> Do you see PAs and RNs and MDs with earrings and hand tattoos in Converse and skinny jeans or leather jackets and studded jewelery?



See, that right there is the ignorance most people have. Automatic association of tattoos with a certain grouping of people. Get out of living in the past. I know more doctors and nurses that have more visible tattoos than paramedics in my system.


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## CALEMT (Feb 4, 2015)

Where I worked as a seasonal people had full sleeves and they wore long sleeved shirts 24/7. They understood that there is a sense of professionalism and pride that comes with doing your job and working for a dept./service and abided by the uniform policy that any visible tattoos while in uniform need to be covered. Most ambulance companies around here have relatively the same policy, and some companies/ depts. I've seen employees with full sleeve's wearing short sleeve shirts while on duty. I don't judge a person just because he/ she has tattoos and works in this service. Do I care if you have tattoos? No, absolutely not. In fact Im planning on getting inked myself. What I do care about is looking professional on the job and abiding by the policies and procedures set by the higher ups.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 4, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> See, that right there is the ignorance most people have. Automatic association of tattoos with a certain grouping of people. Get out of living in the past. I know more doctors and nurses that have more visible tattoos than paramedics in my system.



there are pretty drastic cultural differences with regards to tattoos. Where I lived in CA tats were socially acceptable, where I live on MA they are not. It's not living in the past, it's living in your respective reality. 

When I got my ink I made a desicision, based on the culture I live and want to work in, to be able to keep them hidden under comfortable clothes.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 5, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> See, that right there is the ignorance most people have. Automatic association of tattoos with a certain grouping of people. Get out of living in the past. I know more doctors and nurses that have more visible tattoos than paramedics in my system.



So in other words it's cool for me to display that firemen and police should have professional standards in regard to tats, but making the same notion about EMS/RNs/MDs gets under your skin?

I see you only quoted part of my statement.

Is that because you didn't make it on with FD or PD and went with one of those? If you're going to call me ignorant for my simple stated opinion then I'm going to call you out. I don't care enough to actually explore your posts to see what it is you are or do, but I can assure you that the majority of persons feel the same as I do.

Which is not in opposition to tattoos, but rather a proponent of professionalism. Professionalism is
*:*the conduct, aims, or qualities that characterize or mark a profession or a professional (Merriam-Webster).

What do you not understand about neck tattoos not being a quality, aim, or conduct of a person placed in a position of public trust?!

When you blink while starting an IV on a patient your eyelids should not read "get money" (example).

Do you get that?
Or are you just upset that I don't think a person with that social outlook should be in this field?

I'm trying my darnedest to not make this personal. Because you don't represent my organization, and from your posts about this topic I am somewhat relieved.

_EVERYONE has the right to their individuality. But on that same token is that everyone also has the responsibility to maintain uniform standards and a professional demeanor_.

That is the way of this world and this field of public service. I would like to see a public poll (not a EMTLIFE poll) with pictures with that of the likes of the tattooed doctor to display tangible results of a compare/contrast picture of the same person. One with their art out on display and one with the same individual in turnouts, a lab coat, an officers uniform, a gas station attendant, etc...

Would you like to venture a guess of the ones most likely to be rated higher on a scale of: trustworthiness, likability, suitability, etc? Obviously, I'd like a poll of the general public, not poll with a sample bias of teenage girls and tatted up rock stars.

It's reality- not ignorance. It's not taboo; it's unprofessional. This job demands the "look" of professionalism, regardless of your disdain for that fact.

Have you ever heard that it doesn't matter how great your skills are to a patient, but rather how you make them feel.? Or a variant of that.

Appearance holds the same weight for the traditional EMS provider role. It just is what it is.

We can't even get over the color of people's skin without largely being biased, rioting, making every thing a racial debate in this country. Do you honestly think that hand and face tattoos on public servants who are held in high public esteem is going to get a pass at this point in time?

It's like the guy with "murderer" on his neck that killed someone, and then complained and had his lawyers argue that he could not recieve a fair trial due to his appearance. Like, for real?! You make your bed, lay in it.

Teedub, I'm sorry to be so long winded, but I'm trying to come up with reasonable points to possibly sway your opinion, but now I realize after all of that typing that it probably doesn't matter what anyone says - you've (probably) already committed to your stance on the issue with an everlasting mark on your flesh, in the form of a neck tattoo.

You wanna get all inked on your own time, fine. But not on the clock, and keep it in your personal life and off the job.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 5, 2015)

Funny story. During P school and  during our section of immune vs inflammatory response system we had a guest speaker. The speaker was the owner operator of a tattoo parlor that happened to be right next door to our classroom on the same property.

He was asked a question by one of my classmates: "If the body works to reject outside intruders and pushes everything out, why does tattoo ink not get rejected by the immune system?"

His response was: "Well...the ink goes deep into the layers of the skin. Pretty much it's like your skin is getting raped... The skin tries, but it can't fight it off."


....

After a brief moment of silence, starring at each other in awe, and realizing that was his real answer the classroom erupted into laughter.

We didn't have any guest speakers after that.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 5, 2015)

Didn't read a word past your first paragraph. I don't disagree about looking professional, if you ever read any of my previous posts you'd know I'm a stickler for people looking their best in this field. What you blatantly show is your ignorance in associating tattoos with people from Mad Max. And yes, it's living in the past. It's not about what culture you live in unless you're not in the United States. 

Blah blah blah, I don't have tattoos but am highly opinionated on them. Blah blah blah. That's all I'm hearing.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 5, 2015)

If you read the whole post you might might see that sandpit's point is about professionalism and public opinion, not once does he denigrate those WITH tattoos.

And don't tell me about the culture I live in as it is not the same as Texas, could be two different countries.

Maybe younger generations will be more accepting of visible ink on professionals, but EMS is not the battleground for cultural opinion. Tuck your shirt in, get a haircut.


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## ThadeusJ (Feb 5, 2015)

You're from Ontario so here's something I found online that's relevant to your workplace...I think I have posted this before but in my travels I met the head of a large regional NICU in Manitoba.  The person I was to meet was a sizable muscular, heavily tattooed man with large ear piercings.  He was the one of the most professional nicest people I have dealt with.  I thought it was curious given that he was in charge of caring for the tiniest of babies.

Oh, and "haters gonna hate"...


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 5, 2015)

ThadeusJ said:


> You're from Ontario so here's something I found online that's relevant to your workplace...I think I have posted this before but in my travels I met the head of a large regional NICU in Manitoba.  The person I was to meet was a sizable muscular, heavily tattooed man with large ear piercings.  He was the one of the most professional nicest people I have dealt with.  I thought it was curious given that he was in charge of caring for the tiniest of babies.
> 
> Oh, and "haters gonna hate"...


That is an interesting article for sure, thanks for sharing it. Everyone against the tattoos in here seem to think about nothing but face knuckle and eye lid tattoos. That wasn't what I meant in the original post, and as I said before I understand that there are definitely inappropriate tattoos and inappropriate tattoo locations. I find it shocking the amount of people who are down right offended by this and have such strong beliefs that this is the most unprofessional thing comparing it to terrible hair and untucked uniforms. The haters gonna hate quote you left may be the most true statement in this thread. Such strong feelings in here, crazy. Glad I didn't post any pictures of mine I could only imagine what that may stir up... I currently have none visible but have no problems with future arm sleeve tattos. I will however keep them off my face although the "get money" eyelid suggestion is tempting haha.


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## ThadeusJ (Feb 5, 2015)

I only have one tattoo...on my vocal cords that says, "If you can read this you are too close".


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 5, 2015)

BlueJayMedic said:


> I find it shocking the amount of people who are down right offended by this and have such strong beliefs that this is the most unprofessional thing comparing it to terrible hair and untucked uniforms.



I'm not sure where you are getting that from. I don't see anything in this thread indicating that anyone is offended by tattoos. I don't see anyone "hating on" tattoos at all.

What I see is people trying to make the point that, regardless of what _we_ think about tattoos, we have to acknowledge and deal with the fact there are many members of the public and many members of the healthcare industry who are less likely to form the positive impression of us that we want them to have if our appearance fails to meet _their_ standards of professionalism. That may be unfair, but it is the way it is.

The bottom line is that what other people think of us is important. And what other people think of us is based in no small part - at least initially - on whether _they_ think we look professional. So _our_ opinion on tattoos - whether _we_ think they detract from professionalism or not - is really irrelevant. It's the opinion of the people we interact with that matters.


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## Amelia (Feb 5, 2015)

The hospital who I'm taking my EMT classes from require a clean professional look, and no visible tattoos. The girl that sits next to me is... 19? She has two tattoos on her wrists. I think she feels screwed.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 5, 2015)

Amelia said:


> The hospital who I'm taking my EMT classes from require a clean professional look, and no visible tattoos. The girl that sits next to me is... 19? She has two tattoos on her wrists. I think she feels screwed.


Long sleeve shirt could be OK if it's not to hot where your at. Provided they don't go down onto her hands anywhere that is.


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## JPINFV (Feb 5, 2015)

Hey, look. This thread went exactly where I predicted. What's next, this guy complaining that he can't get a fair shake in EMS? After all, it's not his fault that society isn't more accepting of [poor] choices.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 5, 2015)

JPINFV said:


> Hey, look. This thread went exactly where I predicted. What's next, this guy complaining that he can't get a fair shake in EMS? After all, it's not his fault that society isn't more accepting of [poor] choices.


How does this guy drink or eat? NG tube?


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## CALEMT (Feb 5, 2015)

JPINFV said:


> Hey, look. This thread went exactly where I predicted. What's next, this guy complaining that he can't get a fair shake in EMS? After all, it's not his fault that society isn't more accepting of [poor] choices.


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## Jim37F (Feb 5, 2015)

I think there is definitely a generational shift towards tattoos in that they're slowly becoming more and more acceptable. Key word being slowly. And even the upcoming generation that is more open to tattoos than the previous ones still isn't 100% accepting. Plenty of people will have an automatic negative connotation to seeing people with tattoos, regardless of what the art is. If you have visible tattoos and you come up on a stranger who has those negative connotations in mind, they're not exactly going to be super comfortable discussing all their sensitive medical history and other pertinent info with us. As this discussion shows, there's a significant part of EMS that thinks they're perfectly fine. However, that does not change the fact that in most of the rest of the professional world tattoos are well taboo. The thing is that isn't exactly secret. We all KNOW this. So there really shouldn't be any surprise whatsoever when we get some ink and find that others now hold a discriminatory view point against us for that choice. 

So if you have a sleeve or whatever on your forearm and are having trouble finding a job in a position of public trust because of it, yeah I'm sympathetic that you shouldn't have trouble getting a job, but I'm not sympathetic at all when people start complaining and whining like they're shocked and blindsided that they can't get the job.


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## Amelia (Feb 5, 2015)

JPINFV said:


> Hey, look. This thread went exactly where I predicted. What's next, this guy complaining that he can't get a fair shake in EMS? After all, it's not his fault that society isn't more accepting of [poor] choices.


its probably the back of the piercing, but it looks like he has some major boogerage going on there.


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## ViolynEMT (Feb 5, 2015)

BlueJayMedic said:


> How does this guy drink or eat? NG tube?


That was the first thing I thought about.


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## titmouse (Feb 5, 2015)




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## teedubbyaw (Feb 5, 2015)

Now that I have time to read your gibberish, thanks for associating me with having neck tattoos because my opinion is tattoos aren't for thugs only @SandpitMedic. Keep running your mouth and sounding like a fool. If you didn't get your rocks off acting like you do on here, then you'd understand that I am all for tattoos not being visible in EMS, but I'm also not against conservative and well done tattoos on the arm being seen. That's not for me to decide, though, is it? 

Anyways, I could have a better argument with a monkey. At least they aren't closed-minded.


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## JPINFV (Feb 5, 2015)

Aw, someone is all butt hurt because other people think that his choices aren't free from consequences.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 5, 2015)

Umm, what consequences?


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 5, 2015)

Lol. That made me chuckle. Gibberish mouth running with fools and monkeys. Cute.

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" - Socrates

Try not to get this thread closed too with your bad attitude, @teedubbyaw, ey bud. This is a great topic and I'd like to see more of what our peers think about it.

There's no need to get all defensive.


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## MonkeyArrow (Feb 5, 2015)

IMO, this business is largely a customer service driven business. Just like if people think you are having an attitude with them, they won't like you, some people are pre-disposed against tattoos. Personally, I have nothing against tattoos (not that I have any myself), but I believe that they should be covered in the workplace. I really don't think there is any need/benefit to not covering your tattoos when attempting to deliver care to someone who needs to trust you, but can't because of stereotypes. Even though we don't like to admit it, we all profile and stereotype at first impression. I want mine, and the people working for my company, to have the best possible first impression.


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## Chewy20 (Feb 5, 2015)

beano said:


> where I live on MA they are not.


 
Where in MA are you that worried about tattoos? lol


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## Rin (Feb 5, 2015)

I disagree that first impressions with patients are so important that we should discriminate against providers' personal appearance when hiring (grooming and hygiene not withstanding).

Some patients are not filled with confidence upon seeing a feminine woman arrive to help them.  Send a not-so-feminine woman and now they're uncomfortable with the possible homosexual that's about to touch them.  Some patients are uncomfortable with people of color.  Others worry if their provider looks too young.

Yet...women, homosexuals, people of color, and young people in this profession manage to do their jobs every day.  Yes, a patient may view you negatively at first sight, but it's up to the provider to assuage the patient's misgivings through confidence, competence, and bedside manner.  

If you possess those things, I don't think tattoos are an insurmountable hurtle any more than being female, not white, homosexual, young, or all of the above. 

Without those things, your patient's impression of you won't be positive for long, even if you look like Captain America.


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## ViolynEMT (Feb 5, 2015)

Rin said:


> I disagree that first impressions with patients are so important that we should discriminate against providers' personal appearance when hiring (grooming and hygiene not withstanding).
> 
> Some patients are not filled with confidence upon seeing a feminine woman arrive to help them.  Send a not-so-feminine woman and now they're uncomfortable with the possible homosexual that's about to touch them.  Some patients are uncomfortable with people of color.  Others worry if their provider looks too young.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## Chewy20 (Feb 5, 2015)

If you want your pt's trust, then do your job well and know what you are talking about. Everyone has opinions, everyone also has something else.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

Rin said:


> I disagree that first impressions with patients are so important that we should discriminate against providers' personal appearance when hiring (grooming and hygiene not withstanding).
> 
> Some patients are not filled with confidence upon seeing a feminine woman arrive to help them.  Send a not-so-feminine woman and now they're uncomfortable with the possible homosexual that's about to touch them.  Some patients are uncomfortable with people of color.  Others worry if their provider looks too young.
> 
> ...




I like that. I do, but, the things you mentioned are not choices you make. Each and every one of those things are the way you were born (including homosexuality if you believe what the gay rights folks have to say about it.) You can't choose to be a man or be black; you just are.

You can choose exactly what tattoos you get and where you get them.

Just saying...


Yayyy diversity... 

Again, I'm not anti-tattoo, I am pro-professionalism. It all depends on where and what it is.


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## Rin (Feb 6, 2015)

SandpitMedic said:


> I like that. I do, but, the things you mentioned are not choices you make. Each and every one of those things are the way you were born (including homosexuality if you believe what the gay rights folks have to say about it.) You can't choose to be a man or be black; you just are.
> 
> You can choose exactly what tattoos you get and where you get them.
> 
> ...



I thought the issue was concern for a provider's appearance negatively impacting how the patient views the crew, not punishing people for what you perceive to be their poor choices.

Not sure what you mean by "Yayyy diversity...  "


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

I mean we live in a world of accepting and being diverse... In terms of race, religion, creed, etc. 

Not tacky tattooing.


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## STXmedic (Feb 6, 2015)

SandpitMedic said:


> "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" - Socrates
> 
> Try not to get this thread closed too with your bad attitude, @teedubbyaw, ey bud. This is a great topic and I'd like to see more of what our peers think about it.
> 
> There's no need to get all defensive.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 6, 2015)

Chewy20 said:


> Where in MA are you that worried about tattoos? lol


the Puritan/Republican part :/

@Rin - I like your post, what do you think about rainbow colored hair on an EMS professional? Or old ratty shirts? Im just wondering where we would draw the line.  For me it is easier to just set the bar high and not allow anything beyond "normal" (i quoted that because I don't want to start a whole new argument about what normal means, you know what I am talking about)


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

I don't feel as if Personal hygiene has anything to do with tattoos. Ratty uniforms, untucked or dirty or not polished boots or any of that is not an appropriate comparison to someone with tattoos though right. A dirty ratted uniform is in a different category. I would lump rainbow coloured hair in with extreme facial piercings (see above pictures) and facial or inappropriate tattoos. Regular facial piercings pose a safety risk and that's a different topic also.


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## triemal04 (Feb 6, 2015)

Why is this such an arguement?  Really, it's an easy concept to understand.

Personally, the simple fact that someone has tattoos, be it full sleeves, neck tats, or ones on the backs of their hands doesn't bother me; if anything does, it's the content of the tattoos not the fact that they are there.  I'd bet that in 20 years there will be a large majority of people who feel the same way.

But it's not 20 years later yet.  It's today.

Today there is a large segment of the population, likely the majority, that will automatically view someone who has tattoos as a lower quality of individual and/or criminal/dirtbag.  There is a large segment of the population that just finds tattoos distasteful. 

You personally may feel the same as I do, but you'd be in the minority, and your beliefs aren't the one's that matter right now.  What matters right now, in an industry like ours, is keeping the confidence and faith of the public at large.  And I bet you know what that means when it comes to tattoos.


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## ViolynEMT (Feb 6, 2015)

I, personally, don't see anything wrong with tasteful tattoos. Offensive, gang related, etc. would be a no for me. Some patients are going to judge and be taken aback by tattoos. Just the way it is. If one is professional and shows the patient immediately that they know what they are doing and can help the patient.....save their life, even, in a serious situation.....I'm sure most patients will no longer "see" the tat/s. 

On a professional level, some employers are not going to like it . Again, just the way it is. If you have a tat, be prepared to cover it if your employer wants that. 

This is one of those subjects that will never get full agreement from everyone. I think at this point we should agree to disagree and just hold hands and sing Kumbaya or something.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

STXmedic said:


> View attachment 1788


Touché 

Noted


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

ViolynEMT said:


> I think at this point we should agree to disagree and just hold hands and sing Kumbaya or something.



This is off the subject. 

However, human evolution and history are rife with conflict. Humanity is fraught with civilizations annilihating one another since the dawn of time. We can be civilized for a little while, until we become the conquered or conquerors. 
It is simple - eventually someone has to win.


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## ViolynEMT (Feb 6, 2015)

SandpitMedic said:


> This is off the subject.
> 
> However, human evolution and history are rife with conflict. Humanity is fraught with civilizations annilihating one another since the dawn of time. We can be civilized for a little while, until we become the conquered or conquerors.
> It is simple - eventually someone has to win.



First of all, I was being sarcastic. I agree that there will always be conflict. I do believe, however, that some conflicts will never be resolved. There will never be a winner. I'm not the type that goes around wanting everyone to stop fighting and cry out for peace o'er all the land. I think it is wise, however, at times to recognize that some things will never be resolved, agreed upon, and "won". It is a matter of realizing that you can't change someone's mind if they are absolutely set in their opinion. And that's ok. We are all entitled to our opinions That's what makes the world interesting. I think it's futile to go on trying to do that, though. There comes a point when one realizes that a particular conflict is going to end with no clear winner. Not every conflict will have or has to have a winner. And that's ok, too.


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## Rin (Feb 6, 2015)

beano said:


> the Puritan/Republican part :/
> 
> @Rin - I like your post, what do you think about rainbow colored hair on an EMS professional? Or old ratty shirts? Im just wondering where we would draw the line.  For me it is easier to just set the bar high and not allow anything beyond "normal" (i quoted that because I don't want to start a whole new argument about what normal means, you know what I am talking about)



Ratty uniforms fall under "grooming and hygiene" for me.  You should appear and smell clean at work.  I personally draw the line at discriminating against a person's body, altered or not.



triemal04 said:


> Why is this such an arguement?  Really, it's an easy concept to understand.
> ...
> Today there is a large segment of the population, likely the majority, that will automatically view someone who has tattoos as a lower quality of individual and/or criminal/dirtbag.  There is a large segment of the population that just finds tattoos distasteful.



I have a different point of view.  As I pointed out earlier, there are many segments of the population that are viewed as inferior (females, homosexuals, people of color) by the "majority."  That increased acceptance of diversity "in 20 years" you speak of will never come if we're fighting to maintain the status quo.  That's a fight I can't support.


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 6, 2015)

Rin said:


> *I have a different point of view. * As I pointed out earlier, there are many segments of the population that are viewed as inferior (females, homosexuals, people of color) by the "majority."  That increased acceptance of diversity "in 20 years" you speak of will never come if we're fighting to maintain the status quo.  That's a fight I can't support.



It isn't your point of view that matters, though - it's the point of view of the person you are trying to make the positive impression on.

I can think I'm hotter that Vin Diesel and wittier than Chris Rock all day long but if the chick I'm hitting on just sees a drunken, sarcastic fat dude......what I thought I saw when I passed the mirror matters little.


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## triemal04 (Feb 6, 2015)

Rin said:


> I have a different point of view.  As I pointed out earlier, there are many segments of the population that are viewed as inferior (females, homosexuals, people of color) by the "majority."  That increased acceptance of diversity "in 20 years" you speak of will never come if we're fighting to maintain the status quo.  That's a fight I can't support.


I agree.  But...there are situations where changing the status quo needs to happen in other areas first before changing in all areas.  EMS, and the medical field at large, are in that type of situation.  We as a whole need to keep the confidence and faith of the public at large, AND are viewed with more scrutiny and with a more strict sense of what a professional appearance is.  As tattoos become more widespread and passe and the public at large starts to lose previous beliefs about them, that will pass on to all groups, including medical providers, and it won't matter anymore.  

But we aren't there yet.

This just isn't the time to be at the forefront of change.


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## STXmedic (Feb 6, 2015)

Remi said:


> It isn't your point of view that matters, though - it's the point of view of the person you are trying to make the positive impression on.


This is the only thing keeping me from tattoos. I like them. I think they can be very well done and not appear trashy at all. But I also understand that many people view tattoos negatively. 

Where I work, we don't have to conceal tattoos. We have guys with sleeves, tattoos on the hands, even on the neck. One moron even has a clover leaf "tear drop"...  Luckily in South Texas they aren't forced to cover them. I'm not going to be a field paramedic for the rest of my life though, and I'm not going to put any future higher-up positions in jeopardy because said employer does not think my tattoos appear professional enough. I'm also not going to wear long sleeves in Texas year around... If you want tattoos, go for it. I'm jealous. But also understand that not everybody has the same opinion, and that won't change any time in the near future. People just need to have some foresight when deciding on what, or more importantly where, their next ink is going to be. Like Remi said, just because you don't think it looks bad doesn't mean somebody else will agree with you.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 6, 2015)

A big issue is that those people making silly comments about tattoos are those who have never seen a good tattoo and are use to seeing dated, generic ink that everyone has. So, here, enjoy a few good tattoos I pulled off my feed real quick. The ink world has changed a lot in the last decade.


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## Jim37F (Feb 6, 2015)

@teedubbyaw I think those look awesome, well done and all that. There is also a significant chunk of the population we serve that think any and all tattoos regardless of quality and artistry are tacky and unsightly and every bit as unprofessional as having an untucked ratty uniform shirt.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 6, 2015)

Jim37F said:


> @teedubbyaw I think those look awesome, well done and all that. There is also a significant chunk of the population we serve that think any and all tattoos regardless of quality and artistry are tacky and unsightly and every bit as unprofessional as having an untucked ratty uniform shirt.



Few and far between. Like I've said, I've had old ladies and old dudes stop me and say they hate tattoos but love mine.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

No one at work can see this, back of my right calf. Awesome artist in the falls. Not every one is a facial tear drop or a naked woman on the neck. I hope that swing to appreciating them as art work instead of something unprofessional happens sometime early in my lifetime!!


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## Rin (Feb 6, 2015)

We are not required to cover tattoos in my workplace.  In my observation from working with tattooed partners, most patients don't even notice or care, unless they're inked themselves and want to strike up a conversation about it.

I'm talking about elderly patients, patients from all over the world, going in and out of one of the top hospitals in the nation.  

I draw more more negative attention for who I am, despite being clean cut.  There's no point in worrying about offending people with your appearance.  They are in the wrong, and it is not beneficial to anyone to validate their prejudice.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 6, 2015)

BlueJayMedic said:


> View attachment 1789
> 
> No one at work can see this, back of my right calf. Awesome artist in the falls. Not every one is a facial tear drop or a naked woman on the neck. I hope that swing to appreciating them as art work instead of something unprofessional happens sometime early in my lifetime!!



Love it dude. Did you or an artist do the design?


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 6, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> Few and far between. Like I've said, I've had old ladies and old dudes stop me and say they hate tattoos but love mine.


Do you not understand that areas are different? There are some areas that tattoos are perfectly acceptable and others where they are not. 

I work in an area that is mostly >60yrs old. There are some people in this older population who are fine with tattoos and others who are not. Now if I drive an hour away to the town where the only thing there is 20 tattoo shops and a marine Corp base tattoos are common place there. 

A lot of tattoo art is very well done, however they are very expensive and people may not have the money to pay for an extremely nice one or drive to an amazing artist. Or better yet they let their buddy do a tattoo in their white van as they are going down a dirt road. What if they have a reaction to the ink used or don't follow the care instructions after getting the tattoo and it looks like ****? 

What if the patient views something in the art as offensive? What if the patient finds a hidden swastika that no one noticed? 

You need to realize that how many people in your area react negatively to tattoos may be far and few in between but that is not true for other areas.

The last thing I want to see as I'm having a massive STEMI is a flaming skull and crossbones.

Get all the tattoos you want. Spend all the money you want on them. Get "Mommy" tattooed on the small of your back. Get your last name tattooed between your shoulder blades. Get "DopeSWAG420BlazeItYOLO" tattooed on your arm. Don't complain if employers force you to cover it up. You made the choice to get the body modification done to you (hopefully) so if you are offended that a company forces you to cover them up just remember it's your fault.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 6, 2015)

An


teedubbyaw said:


> Love it dude. Did you or an artist do the design?


 Thanks. An artist for sure I can't even draw a properly proportioned stick figure on an incident report, nevermind something even close to that haha. Ever travel to Niagara Falls he's worth a look up.


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## CALEMT (Feb 6, 2015)

"DopeSWAG420BlazeItYOLO" DesertEMT66 - 2015


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## Rin (Feb 6, 2015)

Remi said:


> It isn't your point of view that matters, though - it's the point of view of the person you are trying to make the positive impression on.



We should not be attempting to make a positive impression on patients with our bodies.  By that token, we should also discriminate against overweight or unattractive people.



triemal04 said:


> I agree.  But...there are situations where changing the status quo needs to happen in other areas first before changing in all areas.
> 
> ...
> 
> This just isn't the time to be at the forefront of change.



As a profession that aims to be perceived as "the good guys," heroes even, we should comport ourselves as such.  That is part of that "higher standard" we hold ourselves and each other to; to act as the good guys, not just pretend to be the good guys.  

We should be the first profession without discrimination, not the last.


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## Jim37F (Feb 6, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> All I heard was blahblahblah, I didn't read a thing teedub said and I'm just trying to sound like a badass, because everything I'm saying is what teedub already said, and blahblahblah hear me run my mouth because teedub definitely said he was offended that his agency allows him to show his tattoos but he chooses not to but I'm going to say he's offended because blahbityblahblah.
> 
> That's me sounding like you, in 3rd person that's in 1st person, but kind of in 2nd person.


 Actually I'm getting more of that vibe coming off of you, not off Desert. What he (and I) are trying to say is that in your area tattoo's may be no problemo and you can rock your ink in uniform and on duty and get nothing but compliments. Great, awesome, I'm slightly jealous. 

The little old lady at the nursing home may not mind, but the 40 something business owner or hiring manager who's standing behind you in line at the Starbucks? In my area, he's viewing your tat's about as professional as showing up to a job interview in a Hawaiian shirt, coveralls, and socks and sandals. Which is why here, pretty much every EMT, Paramedic, Firefighter, etc are required to cover up any visible ink either with a long sleeve uniform shirt or one of those neoprene compression sleeve things (or my service taking it to it's logical extreme, any visible tattoo in a short sleeve uniform shirt and workout shorts is an automatic, no questions asked disqualification, and getting one is grounds for immediate termination. Clearly the population we serve has a vastly different outlook on tattoos than your service area.

Tattoo's are a fashion choice. Just like one business' view on employee fashion may be extremely lax (sweatpants and a wacky t-shirt? Why not?), the one across the street may be strict (You're not wearing a tie today? Is it Casual Friday?) Where you live, the local fashion views allow you to wear your tat's visible for all the world to see a-ok, exactly the opposite of the local fashion views on what is and isn't professional.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 6, 2015)

I really don't care. I don't show my tattoos on the job and I don't care if you show yours off on the job. So, why are we arguing about this? When old people see my tattoos, I'm off duty, so it doesn't matter. Have a beer, it's Friday.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 6, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> I really don't care. I don't show my tattoos on the job and I don't care if you show yours off on the job. So, why are we arguing about this? When old people see my tattoos, I'm off duty, so it doesn't matter. Have a beer, it's Friday.


People are expressing their view points on why tattoos should be or shouldn't be visible during work. Off duty has nothing to do with the topic that has been brought up (unless I am mistaken).


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 6, 2015)

Everything I've said about my tattoos has been in reference to when I'm off duty. My opinions of on duty tattoos has been stated. Maybe somewhere along the way two topics got merged. Then again, I've said numerous times that my tattoos aren't visible in uniform.

I'm teedub and I haven't eaten fish sticks in 11 years.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 6, 2015)

teedubbyaw said:


> Everything I've said about my tattoos has been in reference to when I'm off duty. My opinions of on duty tattoos has been stated. Maybe somewhere along the way two topics got merged. Then again, I've said numerous times that my tattoos aren't visible in uniform.
> 
> I'm teedub and I haven't eaten fish sticks in 11 years.


And all of my posts have been about visible tattoos while on duty. So that may have been where some of the confusion is.


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## teedubbyaw (Feb 6, 2015)




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## Carlos Danger (Feb 6, 2015)

Rin said:


> We should not be attempting to make a positive impression on patients with our bodies.  By that token, we should also discriminate against overweight or unattractive people.



So now it's _discriminatory_ to expect employees to maintain an appearance that adheres to broadly accepted standards of professionalism?

And expecting  professionals to maintain standards of appearance is forcing them to "make an impression with their bodies"?

My brain is starting to hurt.....


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## triemal04 (Feb 6, 2015)

Rin said:


> We should not be attempting to make a positive impression on patients with our bodies.  By that token, we should also discriminate against overweight or unattractive people.
> 
> As a profession that aims to be perceived as "the good guys," heroes even, we should comport ourselves as such.  That is part of that "higher standard" we hold ourselves and each other to; to act as the good guys, not just pretend to be the good guys.
> 
> We should be the first profession without discrimination, not the last.


It's funny, I agree with most of what you're saying...I just think you don't have a firm grasp of the reality that is in place in THE VAST MAJORITY OF THIS COUNTRY.

I really don't know what else to say besides this:


triemal04 said:


> I agree.  But...there are situations where changing the status quo needs to happen in other areas first before changing in all areas.  EMS, and the medical field at large, are in that type of situation.  We as a whole need to keep the confidence and faith of the public at large, AND are viewed with more scrutiny and with a more strict sense of what a professional appearance is.  As tattoos become more widespread and passe and the public at large starts to lose previous beliefs about them, that will pass on to all groups, including medical providers, and it won't matter anymore.
> 
> But we aren't there yet.
> 
> This just isn't the time to be at the forefront of change.


You can try to couch it in whatever simple terms you want, but the fact still remains that the medical profession is not the place to be trying to effect changes in public perception of this nature.  The expectation and de facto requirements by those we serve are at a different level than many other groups.  Like it or not, it's really that simple.

If you, or anyone chooses to get full sleeves (for example) that's fine, hopefully you have a persona that will help to make people rethink any prior opinions about tattoos.  But, if you attempt to enter into a field that has different standards and is held to different levels of personal grooming standards, no matter what your own personal beliefs are, you may have problems, both finding employment, with how you are treated by coworkers (which includes people outside your own service but who are still in the medical field), and by the people you serve.  

The medical field is not the place to be pushing this sort of change.


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## CALEMT (Feb 6, 2015)

BlueJayMedic said:


> Ok violyn U can join the club too. There should be a thread to show off all the cool pieces people have now that the whole visibility at work thing has been beaten to death from both sides of the fence.



I remember a thread on here awhile ago I think it was called something like "show me the ink" or something along the lines of that.


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## Chimpie (Feb 6, 2015)

Let's try to keep things polite and on topic please.


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## Chimpie (Feb 6, 2015)

CALEMT said:


> I remember a thread on here awhile ago I think it was called something like "show me the ink" or something along the lines of that.


Yep, here it is: http://emtlife.com/threads/show-me-your-ink.8025/

Again, it's a really old thread. Dating back to 2006 so a lot of the images are broken. The thread has already been closed.


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## Rin (Feb 7, 2015)

Remi said:


> So now it's _discriminatory_ to expect employees to maintain an appearance that adheres to broadly accepted standards of professionalism?
> 
> And expecting  professionals to maintain standards of appearance is forcing them to "make an impression with their bodies"?
> 
> My brain is starting to hurt.....



discriminate: v. to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit

Yes, it is discriminatory to decide a person is unfit for a job based on appearance, rather than skill.



triemal04 said:


> It's funny, I agree with most of what you're saying...I just think you don't have a firm grasp of the reality that is in place in THE VAST MAJORITY OF THIS COUNTRY.
> ...
> The medical field is not the place to be pushing this sort of change.



I do realize that much of this country is conservative, but I'm an idealist.  I would push for change everywhere I see a lack, so there can be more freedom, sooner.  We do a slow crawl towards accepting people's differences, and in the meantime, their lives are negatively impacted for no good reason.


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## JWalters (Feb 7, 2015)

beano said:


> If you read the whole post you might might see that sandpit's point is about professionalism and public opinion, not once does he denigrate those WITH tattoos.
> 
> And don't tell me about the culture I live in as it is not the same as Texas, could be two different countries.
> 
> Maybe younger generations will be more accepting of visible ink on professionals, but EMS is not the battleground for cultural opinion. Tuck your shirt in, get a haircut.



Yep. The vast majority of people served by EMS are elderly and it is THEIR culture that tattoos are non-professional, etc. I tend to agree, even though I have (non visible while in uniform) ink. It can be very scary to have EMS involved in your care, even if just for a transport. Looking professional is one way that we can help people be more willing to put some trust in us. I have a feeling that when the now 20-somethings are the majority of patients we will see a huge difference in professional standards. And honestly, I don't think that is a good thing.


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 7, 2015)

Rin said:


> discriminate: v. to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit
> 
> Yes, it is discriminatory to decide a person is unfit for a job based on appearance, rather than skill.
> 
> ...



I am sorry, but you are not a "victim" if you want to get all tatted up and get those fake devil horns implanted in your forehead but your employer or potential employer has policies against it. Those policies exist for a reason, and they reflect the reality of the real, adult, imperfect world that we live in.

It's quite a testament to the victim mentality that pervades our culture these days that people can't recognize the difference between an individual not being hired because of their race or gender, and an individual not being hired because they voluntarily and willingly choose to violate the well-known and generally accepted norms for appearance that equally apply to all races and genders involved in a professional public service role. Big, big difference.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 7, 2015)

1. EMS is not a cultural battleground.

2. CHOOSING to put visible ink on your body is NOT the same as being BORN black or gay or whatever.

3. There are consequences to your actions.  I find that the younger generation doesn't understand this for whatever reason.  You go against social norms, you deal with the consequences.  This is coming from a guy who once had dreadlocks, both ears pierced, and drove lime green 1976 VW bus. 

4. There is a big difference between visible and non-visible tattoos and I think some of you aren't getting that.  There is no "hatred of tattoos" going on here. The personal attacks that are happening aren't even about the ink.  One side is simply saying, you can't be surprised when your arm sleeve and knuckle tatts keep you from scoring a job in the SERVICE industry, or if you land a job that you are asked to cover them up on duty.

5. This is a never ending cycle of wanting to be taken seriously as a medical profession on one hand, and wanting to be the rebel doing what doctors do at 90 mph on the other.  In that pic of the doc with all the ink, how much of that was visible when he is wearing his white coat?


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## triemal04 (Feb 7, 2015)

Rin said:


> discriminate: v. to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit
> 
> Yes, it is discriminatory to decide a person is unfit for a job based on appearance, rather than skill.
> 
> I do realize that much of this country is conservative, but I'm an idealist.  I would push for change everywhere I see a lack, so there can be more freedom, sooner.  We do a slow crawl towards accepting people's differences, and in the meantime, their lives are negatively impacted for no good reason.


Actually the reason is a very good one and very simple; The expectation and de facto requirements by those we serve are at a different level than many other groups, and you are attempting to enter into a field that has different standards and is held to different levels of personal grooming standards... 

Either you don't understand what that means and why it matters, which isn't good, or you refuse to believe that, which also isn't good. 

If you make a PERSONAL CHOICE to do something that may have a negative effect on your employment prospects or how you are treated by THE PEOPLE YOU SERVE that's unfortunate, but you made a CHOICE to do that, KNOWING that the field you are trying to enter is different than working as say...a mechanic.  If it causes you problems...it's your own fault. 

Right now...tough luck.


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## Rin (Feb 7, 2015)

My only point in comparing having tattoos to being black or being gay is that they draw the same level of distrust from conservative patients.  Other distrusted groups manage to overcome similar obstacles to patient care and community trust.

Great job on turning "victim" into a bad word though.  You want to discriminate against a group based on appearance, but I'm the bad guy for pointing it out?  Okay.  I guess it's easy to defend inequality when you're on top.

While we're talking about gaining our communities' trust, why is it that only the elderly white demographic matters?  Younger people are more accepting of tattoos.  In a predominantly black neighborhood, white providers might garner automatic distrust.  But dare to suggest that departments mirror the demographics of the community and listen to the cry that goes up of "it doesn't matter what a provider looks like, just that they're the best person for the job!"

My point is that the concept of appearing trustworthy to the community is being applied very unevenly.  The ideal appearance to gain the trust of every demographic does not exist.

As a point of interest, since my appearance and employability has come under fire, I do not have any tattoos, and I had no difficulty obtaining a job.  Sorry if was easier to attack someone with the assumption that they're just whining about the consequences of their poor choices.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 7, 2015)

Rin said:


> My point is that the concept of appearing trustworthy to the community is being applied very unevenly. The ideal appearance to gain the trust of every demographic does not exist


No it does not exist however when something as simple as covering tattoos will help gain the trust of a demographic group why shouldn't it be done?

You can't change the fact you are white, black, brown, purple, yellow, or magenta. You can't change the fact you are male or female (well you can, it's just a long process). It takes a while to fix the issue of being overweight. It takes the couple of seconds to put on a long sleeve shirt to help a patient group trust you. So why not take the time it takes to put on a shirt if it helps a group trust you?


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## CALEMT (Feb 7, 2015)

Rin said:


> My only point in comparing having tattoos to being black or being gay is that they draw the same level of distrust from conservative patients.  Other distrusted groups manage to overcome similar obstacles to patient care and community trust.
> 
> Great job on turning "victim" into a bad word though.  You want to discriminate against a group based on appearance, but I'm the bad guy for pointing it out?  Okay.  I guess it's easy to defend inequality when you're on top.
> 
> ...



Since when does being black, white, gay, straight, catholic, or muslim draw distrust in a patient? Im having a hard time understanding this. Where I live is one of the more culturally diverse places in Southern California, you literally can run a call at a multi million dollar house and 5 minutes later you can be in the ghetto. The patients I've seen and transported have ranged from the WW2 vet who landed on D-Day to the gangster on the street. Neither of which cared about my skin color, or any first responders skin color for that matter. You can't compare tattoos to skin color. You chose to get tattoos, you don't get to chose if you're born white, black, boy, girl. 

We work in the industry that is the most scrutinized by people. How we do this, how we do that, how we look, why we did this instead of that. We are public servants, there should be a sense of pride that comes with putting on the uniform and serving the people. If you have tattoos its the simple act of putting on a long sleeve shirt or a under armor sleeve to cover them up (while on duty). Why do this? Because you look more presentable and you look like you give a damn on how you represent your company/ department and that you have a sense of professionalism that comes with this job. To me it would be the same as showing up on a call with your shirt untucked, boots untied/ unzipped, unpolished polished, or in a dirty uniform.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 7, 2015)

I've been trying to read more and post less on this but Jeeeeezzzzzus! 

Being in _this field_, Rin... 
You should know... Victim is a bad word... 

Because *mostly *_everyone nowadays is playing the victim card_ to shift blame away from their faults and deficits. Anything but accepting _personal responsibility._ I see this is more predominant in the younger generation, but diffuse throughout our American culture. From the top down.

I suppose it would be (in your eyes) discrimation for me to say the younger generation has a *real* problem with this and with exceptionalism and the sense of entitlement. And that you look like one of the members of the younger generation. Maybe that's why you're having a difficult time with this. *However,* I am 27 and a member of the same younger generation, so it can't be discrimination - it's just an observation of my surroundings. 

I can not grasp why some people can not grasp that this field is not the place to try to differentiate yourself from the normal standard of professionalism. This is a PROFESSION! What in the world do you not understand! 

"Look sharp, act sharp, be sharp - but don't cut yourself." I read that on another forum.

This thing is evolving beyond its intention into a psychosocial debate about our culture and the many facets of why some of feel this country just isn't what it used to be. Racism being equated to tattoos being unprofessional?! Are you kidding?!

Well shoot, we shouldn't be forced to wear a uniform anymore either, navy blue offends me and I feel more comfortable in my grey sweat pants... Oh, 'that's not allowed' you say? Well you're just intolerant of others and will be needing a social adjustment with diversity and sensitivity training. !!!! Holy !*+!'%££#|£!!!!

We all know the adage that just because we've done something for years doesn't make it right.

Well there's a flipside that is sometimes what we've been doing for years is something we do because it *is right!
*
Traditions and values, ethics and ethos, codes of conduct and standards of professionalism are GOOD things.

**** me. Maybe I'm flirting with a ban, I'm the pot near the kettle with my rant here, but really... Crying social injustice over this. Man. I'll take my own 2 week vacation from this. So unreal.

And thank you Remi for saying all the things I want to say, but with more tact and elegance.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 7, 2015)

Rin said:


> As a point of interest, since my appearance and employability has come under fire, I do not have any tattoos, and I had no difficulty obtaining a job.  Sorry if was easier to attack someone with the assumption that they're just whining about the consequences of their poor choices.



I will point out, once again, that no one is making PERSONAL attacks here.

If I needed a lawyer, and some guy with short sleeves and tatts all the way down showed up...I am not going to judge him personally, but I sure as heck don't want him representing me in front of a court.  I doubt the judge would even let a lawyer in the courtroom.  Why? Because its a statement to the world that you are counter-culture.  Is that a bad thing? No, in fact I consider myself "semi" counter culture, much more so when I was younger, but I digress. But again, EMS, like a courtroom, is not the place to fight a culture war, or to disprove stereotypes.  

If you have tatts and need a job, wear long sleeves and no one will even question you.  Why is this such a big deal?


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 7, 2015)

I have tattoos. I've spent 30+ hours in the chair and thousands of dollars on them. I receive compliments on them all the time. My employer asks me to cover them so I do. I work in an area where the climate changes drastically. It can be below freezing one day and warm the next. The summers can be 100+ or in the 70s-80s. I don't understand why being asked to cover them while you're at work is a big deal. Do I get warm sometimes when it's hot out and I'm wearing long sleeves? Absolutely, but at the end of the day it's actually better to cover them from direct sunlight as it protects them and keeps them looking good for longer. I didn't get tattoos for other people, I got them for myself. Why is it so important to be able to show them off?

While it may not be "right" to judge people on their appearance it happens every day. Our patients judge us and we judge our patients. It's something we're taught in school. You look at the environment you're in when you arrive on scene and begin forming an idea of what's going on. Walk into a smoke filled house that's covered in trash and dirty dishes, with O2 containers and inhalers everywhere "hey...I this patient probably has respiratory problems and doesn't take great care of themselves."

Multiple bottles of the same medication with different fill dates on them..."this patient is probably non-compliant with their medications."


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## Whitney Cadena (Feb 7, 2015)

I'm going to point something out to all of you. Maybe it's because I am optimistic too much or I once was in the patient's shoes at a time in my life. APPEARANCE has nothing to do with character, professionalism, or integrity. I had two lovely *nicely groomed,* *NON TATTOOED* baboons transport me to the trauma hospital 5 minutes from my house. I had a fractured femur and a collapsed lung. I also was swinging in and out of consciousness because *I COULDN'T BREATHE *which eventually resulted in me having seizures back to back*.* It only took them 30 minutes to get me to the hospital that was 5 minutes away. I had no oxygen put on and the medic in the back kept mocking me about "o's" Apparently "O" is Percocet which I was not provided for the pain. Needless to say they are the reason I am in EMS.

I have met EMT's, Nurses, Doctor's, and Medic's all with and without tattoo's. Some were respectful and some were downright disrespectful. If you have thug life tattooed on your knuckles, but treat me like a person with dignity and respect, I will see past that. If you don't have any tattoo's but treat me like I just crawled out the sewer I will not respect you. SIMPLE.

The public's perception is not based on the ink in your skin. Their perception is based off of how you speak, how you act, and how you carry yourselves in a professional setting. You can have the most tatted up bad *** EMT,MEDIC,NURSE, or DOCTOR save your life or take it. The same goes for Non tattooed EMT,NURSE,DOCTOR,& MEDIC. Having tattoo's should have no correlation in how you treat a pt or a human being. You can be a jerk with or without tattoo's or an Angel with or without tattoo's.

I'm more worried about partner's who don't communicate with each other. Believe it or not the pt's can sense hostility before anything. That really throws them overboard.
Just my 2 pennies.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 7, 2015)

^agreed for the most part.

Tattoos are not the end all of professionalism.  Its a whole package.  Of course nice, smart people have tattoos (like me), and plenty of a holes are ink free.  Professionalism is how you present yourself, from the color/style of your hair, whether your shirt is tucked in, if your boots are polished, to whether you have the star of life slaying the grim reaper crawling down your arm.  Its also an attitude.  By attitude I don't just mean how you talk to patients.  When I got my first job in EMS my manager told me I needed a haircut, I said "yes sir, thank you".  One of my partners had to chop up the fingers of nitrile gloves to cover his knuckle tatts a few times per shift and I never heard him complain.  This is the attitude of a professional.

And yes, in an emergent situation no one is going to care or even notice your tatts, but seriously, what percentage of your calls are legit vs driving miss daisy, and how many of us are predominately IFT, which is 100% a service industry where there is competition and the customer has choices.


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## COmedic17 (Feb 7, 2015)

Gauges gross me out. When they take the jewelery out of the holes they look like sphincters.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 7, 2015)

I think it is widely known that the term "o's" is short-speak for oxygen.

I have been in 4 EMS systems including overseas work over the past 7 years and not once have I heard Percocet referred to as "o's."

Just sayin. Maybe it's different where you come from.

Also, never have I seen any Percocet given for prehospital pain management.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience.


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## lukgiel (Feb 7, 2015)

I am all for great artwork . 
I my self have full sleeves, and I had no problem getting hired by a fire dept in a large city.
Here alot of cops, fire and ems have visible tattoos , than again its different in a large city compared to a small rural town


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## Rin (Feb 7, 2015)

@beano  Are you saying he wore nitrile gloves as fingerless gloves?


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 7, 2015)

Rin said:


> @beano  Are you saying he wore nitrile gloves as fingerless gloves?


Whoops nope the other way around. He would make 4 rings to wear over his proximal phalangees between the mpc and pip joints.


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## Whitney Cadena (Feb 8, 2015)

SandpitMedic said:


> I think it is widely known that the term "o's" is short-speak for oxygen.
> 
> I have been in 4 EMS systems including overseas work over the past 7 years and not once have I heard Percocet referred to as "o's."
> 
> ...



Thanks. I know even my mom was confused with her being a RN for the past 10 years. She was the one who asked what he meant and she kind of wasn't trying to flip out on the guy. He refused to even listen to her when she said to put me on oxygen & to use the traction splint. I honestly hope those guys got fired seriously.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 8, 2015)

Whitney Cadena said:


> Thanks. I know even my mom was confused with her being a RN for the past 10 years. She was the one who asked what he meant and she kind of wasn't trying to flip out on the guy. He refused to even listen to her when she said to put me on oxygen & to use the traction splint. I honestly hope those guys got fired seriously.


Well, with respect to you and your mother I can sort of see why these guys may have been having a little laugh between themselves with your nurse mother and you a young EMS hopeful telling them how to do their work. While it unprofessional that they did that in front of you, I can sort of see there is more to the story. You being on that side of it- I understand your perception; me being on the other side of it - I understand theirs.

Have a nurse on scene advising me to put o's on a Pt with a broken leg and to get the traction is going to result in some wise cracks between my partner and I as well. But again, I'm sorry you had a bad experience.


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## SandpitMedic (Feb 8, 2015)

Back to the tattoos....


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## Chewy20 (Feb 8, 2015)




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## irishboxer384 (Feb 9, 2015)

My father spent a full 12 months of school in detention for 2 hours everyday purely to keep his long hair...stubborn (banned at his school at the time, like 1000 years go or something).

He also had a Red Hand of Ulster tattoo on his forearm (usually associated with terrorist organisations in Northern Ireland)- when he went to join the police after the military he had to cover it up with the only thing big enough to excuse a big red hand...a big happy gay red love heart with my mother's name on it lol...

Point is- if you get the tattoos and want to be part of a world that may not like them- you either put up with the fact some people might think you're an idiot/weirdo, or try and assimilate.

There is a huge difference in being an individual with thoughts and beliefs, and someone who stupidly expects everyone to respect you when your physical appearance is that of a plonker (foolish person).

PS Im covered in tattoos, and if I got turned down for a job because an employer didn't want to hire me because of 'appearance' sake... then I'd understand and look elsewhere.


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 9, 2015)

I think it's interesting that at various points in this thread people have felt the need to comment on how tattoos or body mods are disgusting or represent poor decision making. Not to mention the open ridicule of the man with the split tongue and facial piercing. I agree the intersection of professionalism and personal expression is complex , but overall this thread just makes me want to avoid the Ems community.


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## Chimpie (Feb 10, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> I think it's interesting that at various points in this thread people have felt the need to comment on how tattoos or body mods are disgusting or represent poor decision making. Not to mention the open ridicule of the man with the split tongue and facial piercing. I agree the intersection of professionalism and personal expression is complex , but overall this thread just makes me want to avoid the Ems community.


Couple of quick thoughts...
First, I don't believe there has been an overwhelming number of comments stating that they are disgusting. 

Second, if you group those comments in with the entire EMS community, well, that's your issue. This is discussion forum. People share their feelings and opinions on a subject. Some will be similar to yours, some will be the opposite. By sharing yours, you engage in a conversation.

I can't tell you the number of times that I've thought, "Wow, I never thought of it that way." My personal opinion may not have changed, but at least I was able to see another point of view.


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## BlueJayMedic (Feb 10, 2015)

Chimpie said:


> Couple of quick thoughts...
> First, I don't believe there has been an overwhelming number of comments stating that they are disgusting.
> 
> Second, if you group those comments in with the entire EMS community, well, that's your issue. This is discussion forum. People share their feelings and opinions on a subject. Some will be similar to yours, some will be the opposite. By sharing yours, you engage in a conversation.
> ...


Very well said, the like button wasn't enough.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 10, 2015)

Chimpie said:


> Couple of quick thoughts...
> First, I don't believe there has been an overwhelming number of comments stating that they are disgusting.
> 
> Second, if you group those comments in with the entire EMS community, well, that's your issue. This is discussion forum. People share their feelings and opinions on a subject. Some will be similar to yours, some will be the opposite. By sharing yours, you engage in a conversation.
> ...



I was going to say something similar but I couldn't figure out how to do it without sounding like a jerk and this thread is heated enough (for some reason I still don't understand).  Thanks Chimpie!


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 10, 2015)

I don't contest anyone's right to state their opinions. I do generally find the Ems community more socially conservative than I would like. I was just sharing my view that I found much of this discussion rude and small minded. But have at it.


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## CALEMT (Feb 10, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> I don't contest anyone's right to state their opinions. I do generally find the Ems community more socially conservative than I would like. I was just sharing my view that I found much of this discussion *rude and small minded*. But have at it.



Yeah, well thats just like your opinion man.


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## Chewy20 (Feb 10, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> I don't contest anyone's right to state their opinions. I do generally find the Ems community more socially conservative than I would like. I was just sharing my view that I found much of this discussion rude and small minded. But have at it.


 
Grow some thicker skin broman


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 10, 2015)

Would growing thicker skin change my opinions on this? I am not losing any sleep over it. I've been around EMS long enough to understand that most people don't share most of my views. I also don't disagree with everything that has been said. I agree that it is naive to undergo extensive body modification or tattoos and be surprised by a decrease in employment options.  I agree that setting standards of professionalism is essential in gaining the public's trust. I do not agree with blanket statements that certain types of body art represent poor decision making. And I think the tone of some comments has been disrespectful. That is not the same thing as saying people don't have the right to say it.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 10, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> I agree that it is naive to undergo extensive body modification or tattoos and be surprised by a decrease in employment options.





SeeNoMore said:


> I do not agree with blanket statements that certain types of body art represent poor decision making.



Naive yet not a poor desicion? Semantics. 

I still don't understand why everyone is so butt hurt about this. Asking someone to cover their tattoos is not a big deal. If you show up to all interviews with long sleaves then no one can hold it against you.


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 10, 2015)

It certainly is a poor decision if your goal is to be employed in EMS. This is not the same thing as it being a generally poor decision. This thread has contained discussion about tattoos in EMS as well as how those with tattoos and body modifications interact with society at large.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 10, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> It certainly is a poor decision if your goal is to be employed in EMS. This is not the same thing as it being a generally poor decision. This thread has contained discussion about tattoos in EMS as well as how those with tattoos and body modifications interact with society at large.


Generally speaking a tattoo on the face is always poor decision regardless of the job.


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 10, 2015)

I completely disagree. If that makes you happy then I say go for it. I would not have any issue receiving care from someone with a facial tattoo if they were good at their job. I know that's not the way things work in the real world though.

edit:  I have one tattoo that's covered and will likely never get anything else. I would rather be able to find work. All I m saying is that there is nothing wrong with self expression to include facial tattoos. Yes it will make employment a challenge but that does not make it a bad decision for everyone in every circumstance.


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## Chewy20 (Feb 10, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> Would growing thicker skin change my opinions on this? I am not losing any sleep over it. I've been around EMS long enough to understand that most people don't share most of my views. I also don't disagree with everything that has been said. I agree that it is naive to undergo extensive body modification or tattoos and be surprised by a decrease in employment options.  I agree that setting standards of professionalism is essential in gaining the public's trust. I do not agree with blanket statements that certain types of body art represent poor decision making. And I think the tone of some comments has been disrespectful. That is not the same thing as saying people don't have the right to say it.


 
You sound like a whiny little two year old. They are peoples opinions. It's ok if you think it is disrespectful. Maybe I think its disrespectful how you are saying everyone who has commented on this has made blankets statements...I don't because I could not care any less, but still, see my point? Most of the people who have commented on this thing have 4 tattoos, as do I with one pretty big one that is visible.

Don't even understand why this thread is still going, so this will be my last post in it.

You either have tattoos knowing that it may hurt a job opportunity, and if your job does allow it then you should know some people don't like them. Who cares. If my pt doesn't want me taking care of them because they don't like tattoos then they more than likely didn't need an ambulance to begin with if they want to be nitpicky.

And lets be real, face tattoos no matter how you look at it, is a poor decision. Even tattoo artists with face tattoos look ridiculous.


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## gotbeerz001 (Feb 11, 2015)

I think the Maori pull off facial tattoos pretty well. There is always a right way to do something.

I'd let this guy get a line on me as long as he spoke well and seemed to know what he was doing.


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 11, 2015)

Chewy20 said:


> You sound like a whiny little two year old. They are peoples opinions. It's ok if you think it is disrespectful. Maybe I think its disrespectful how you are saying everyone who has commented on this has made blankets statements...I don't because I could not care any less, but still, see my point? Most of the people who have commented on this thing have 4 tattoos, as do I with one pretty big one that is visible.
> 
> Don't even understand why this thread is still going, so this will be my last post in it.
> 
> ...



Let's be real. Your perception of what does of not look ridiculous is not the measure of the validity of people's choices.


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 11, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> I agree that it is naive to undergo extensive body modification or tattoos and be surprised by a decrease in employment options.
> 
> I agree that setting standards of professionalism is essential in gaining the public's trust.



That's all pretty much anyone's been saying here. "If you want to be viewed as a professional in the eye of the public, then - right or wrong - think twice about getting visible ink, because it's often viewed as unprofessional". That's all.

I'm not sure where you are getting the "people here are too socially conservative and closed minded because they think anyone with tattoos is a dirtbag and a loser". I haven't seen any such sentiments here at all. In fact I haven't seen any anti-tatoo statements at all, outside of how they affect perception of professionalism. 

What specifically are you talking about?


SeeNoMore said:


> I do not agree with blanket statements that certain types of body art represent poor decision making.



But yet you did agree, in the post I quoted above.

How can you acknowledge the real-world fact that _"it is naive to undergo extensive body modification or tattoos and be surprised by a decrease in employment options"_, yet say that voluntarily do so doesn't represent poor decision making, for one who hopes to have employment options in a field where again, right or wrong - appearance matters?

Voluntarily ingoring the fact that a given decision you make will often be viewed as unprofessional and will likely limit your employment options is the definition of poor decision making.

I really don't even understand what you are in disagreement with. You said the same thing most of the rest of us "anti-tatoo" folks said, just with different phraseology.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 11, 2015)

Maybe he/she isn't even reading the posts a la teedubbya.


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## SeeNoMore (Feb 11, 2015)

I am only saying that just because certain types of tattoos or body modification are a bad idea for those seeking Ems employment does not mean they are a bad choice for everyone in society.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 11, 2015)

SeeNoMore said:


> I am only saying that just because certain types of tattoos or body modification are a bad idea for those seeking Ems employment does not mean they are a bad choice for everyone in society.



No one else is saying that either.  I haven't seen a single post on here that is anti tattoo for everybody all the time.  Most of us on "this side" of the argument have tattoos.


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## Jim37F (Feb 12, 2015)

Sure, the Maori can pull off a face tattoo...but that doesn't apply here at all. Completely different culture that has no bearing on ours....Here, the professional culture says face tattoos are Bad and extremely unprofessional. While there clearly is a minority that believes otherwise as evidenced by the fact there is even a debate here, the simple fact is the vast majority of professional employers (including the vast majority of EMS public and private) will take one look at an applicant with a facial tattoo and file their application in the circular filing bin. Maybe in 50 years our culture will change, but for now, the simple fact is that is the Truth. And it's not exactly a secret...it's been that way here since forever. Even visible ink on arms, it's well known most employers with military style uniforms (read pretty much all LE, Fire, EMS here in the States) generally mirror the military in that tats need to be covered up in non PT uniforms.


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## TattooedNay (Feb 20, 2015)

Let me cut to the chase: I am covered in tattoos and honestly? No one really gives a ****. What family member is going to say "uh excuse me... girl with the tattoos...can you stop doing compressions? Your appearance is making me uncomfortable".

When I first started out in EMS, I was convinced I would never find a job, employers wouldn't hire me, I would be looked down upon by my peers, community, patients...etc etc.. blah blah blah. All this stigma, all these dumb threads like this made me so anxious. GUESS WHAT!? Contrary to popular belief, if you have tattoos, YOU TOO CAN GET A JOB! 

 Here is what I have learned through the years. 

*Middle aged folks*: Most likely not too fond of them, but by now they probably have a child, or grandchild who has tattoos. Some of these people are real class acts and I jokingly say it's never too late to get a tattoo! At this point of the conversation they tell me their life regrets and what they should have done when they were younger... (depressing). On the flip side some of them are real jerks but hey, thats just, like your opinion man. (watch the big lebowski for that reference) 
*Geriatrics*: They can't see very well. If they can, they try to touch me and tell me what pretty pictures I have on my arm.  (You would be a surprised at how many older people have tattoos)  
*Peds*: My "pretty pictures" are a good distraction.
*20's-30's*: "Cool tats, who does your work? Are they local? I have a (remarkably crappy) tattoo on my arm. ISN'T IT COOL?" cue the eye rolling in my head. Continue with my assessment. 
*Adolescents: "*I want tattoos! My parents wont let me get tattoos! You're so lucky! UGH!" (That's nice honey. Now please tell me what drugs you took so you don't die) 
*Psych: *(see Peds category)
*Combative, BAMF's aka (too cool for school) : *You know those patients who are just too bad *** to utter one friggen sentence? Listen here brother. Answer my dang questions! I'm not a square. See? I'm not like those other guys. I have TATTOOS. We can RELATE. I'M A BAMF just like you. homie. (hahah this one is far fetched) 

*Sick people: *"........" yeah. exactly. Critical patients and family DO.NOT.CARE. I repeat they DO.NOT.CARE. 


There's more to this whole topic than looking professional. I am ALL ABOUT tucked in shirts, pulled back hair, well fitting pants with a belt and polished boots. I am a professional. I know my role. I take pride in my uniform, in my appearance and what I represent. I just so happen to have tattoos. And most of the time I use those tattoos to my advantage. (see above list) I am pretty good at recognizing when they need to disappear.
I always cover them up for meetings, interviews, con eds, PR stuff.. but on duty, if there is not a policy in place, well then. I am going to dress like any other professional employee and continue to use my best judgement. 


Now my only concern (if you want to call it that) is management. 
If any future employer wants them covered at all times, cool. I have no problems with that.

The only "complaint" I ever really received was from a patients husband who said I wasn't contributing to society because I had tattoos. That's one I keep in my laugh bank. It's a running joke at work now. "Hey Nay, you going to contribute to society today?" oh dear.... 

The END.


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 20, 2015)

So you have tattoos, cover them when required, leave them out when not.  Some of your patients think they are cool, some do not.  You've even been (incorrectly) stereotyped by a patient's family based on your tats.  And while most normal people (customers and management) don't care either way, if you were required to cover during work you would?

^this my friends, is the epitome of what we are talking about.  If you want to cover yourself in tattoos, thats great I hope you have a talented artist.  But don't be surprised when some one passes judgment on first sight.  Is it fair? No. Is it to be expected? Yes.  And if your employer asks you to where long sleeves while on duty, just do it.  This isn't a human rights issue, its not as big a deal as some are making it.


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## TattooedNay (Feb 20, 2015)

I covered myself in tattoos long before I even got into EMS. I do have some pretty craptastic tattoos, none vulgar (thank god). Do I regret it? Sort of. If I had a million dollars I would probably get half of them zapped off. But delusional 19 year old me thought I would end up a famous tattoo artist in Berlin. (bahahaha) Anyway, I've made it work. And if you are covered in tattoos and are new to EMS you better develop a thick skin and get used to rejection and snide, unwarranted comments.  Actually, in EMS, you better have thick skin (whether it be covered in ink or not). There will ALWAYS be a situation in which someone will just not want your care. 

I don't think tattoos will ever be truly accepted with open arms in any profession unless its a tattoo shop. And I don't really care. I used to make myself the victim and blame society. Whatever. We are not perfect.

 I have my own biases as well. I know a few obese providers who waddle around covered in grease, shirts untucked, boots unzipped. I do not want their beads of sweat dripping on me if I ever need an ambulance.... but I digress..


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## Burritomedic1127 (Feb 20, 2015)

Lebowski reference for the win


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 20, 2015)

Burritomedic1127 said:


> Lebowski reference for the win


+1 point for movie reference

-2 points for referencing the movie in the movie reference


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## TattooedNay (Feb 20, 2015)

Everything is made up and the points don't matter.  

I'd like my points back for not referencing _that _reference.


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## Kevinf (Feb 20, 2015)

Apparently there is a cream in development that allows the body to break down tattoo ink...

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/3...ution-to-bad-tattoos-tattoo-removal-cream.htm


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## One Confused EMT (Feb 21, 2015)

Will agencies that are anti tattoo allow you to work for them if you wear those tattoo sleeve covers?


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 21, 2015)

One confused dude said:


> Will agencies that are anti tattoo allow you to work for them if you wear those tattoo sleeve covers?


Some do and some don't.


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## One Confused EMT (Feb 21, 2015)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Some do and some don't.




Thanks


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## Jim37F (Feb 21, 2015)

One confused dude said:


> Will agencies that are anti tattoo allow you to work for them if you wear those tattoo sleeve covers?


My current city FD will not. Both my previous private ambulance companies would.


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## One Confused EMT (Feb 21, 2015)

Jim37F said:


> My current city FD will not. Both my previous private ambulance companies would.



Ugh, So many regrets...


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## TattooedNay (Feb 22, 2015)

One confused dude said:


> Will agencies that are anti tattoo allow you to work for them if you wear those tattoo sleeve covers?



Play a fun game and find out for yourself. It's called cover them until you get hired and sign a contract. Then rip off your sleeves like macho man, rocking a muscle t-shirt and voila. Your question will be answered. What are they going to do, fire you?!


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## Ewok Jerky (Feb 22, 2015)

One confused dude said:


> Will agencies that are anti tattoo allow you to work for them if you wear those tattoo sleeve covers?


Where long sleeves throughout the hiring process and it shouldn't be a problem. If it is then I personally wouldn't want to work for a company that wouldn't hire me if I had hidden tats.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 1, 2015)

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5P9cVg6jOHs/hqdefault.jpg

Poor decision making Rob Lowe!

Even direct tv thinks tattoos on your face are a bad idea!


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## Amelia (Jul 23, 2015)

In our employment application we had to sign a form (electronically) that we understood that if hired we must not have any visible tattoos at all.(for the record, Im still in the applicatin waiting stage)


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## phia albanese (Jul 31, 2015)

I am sleeved on my left arm but just because I am does not make me a bad EMT. My tattoos do not define my knowledge but I have no problem will cover them until I am aware of the company's policy and I will most likely cover them after. I love my tattoos and plan on finishing my right arm as well. I think that the era we live in more people have tattoos so you would think it would be a little less of a big deal but I guess that's not always the case but as soon as I see someone with tattoos I dont automatically think "they have tattoos they're from the projects" its all on how they carry themselves .


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## TattooedNay (Aug 1, 2015)

Being from "The Projects" doesn't make you a bad person either. Just a thought.


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