# Driving an Ambulance



## emt seeking first job (May 16, 2011)

What was the hardest part for you to overcome ?

For me it was the fact I can not look at the back, regardless of the curved mirrors and back-up camera. Also, I need to make wider right turns.

What were the hurdles, if any for you ?

Also, what do you see others do wrong ?

I see too many people follow too close, and sort of lump lights and siren with getting on everyone's tail, swerving around obstacles. Some people I see never get it that you can use lights and siren to clear a path, yet, keep a space cushion and give other vehicles a moment to get out of your way.


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## ArcticKat (May 16, 2011)

One common error I see is that my drivers don't realise they are driving a vehicle significantly wider in the back than in the front and I often catch them drifting the rear across the centre line even though the cab of the ambulance is well within our lane.


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## adamjh3 (May 16, 2011)

Some people get so nervous and drive so carefully to the point of it being unsafe. Taking a solid two minutes to back out of a driveway while I'm standing in traffic to back you? Yeah...


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## MrBrown (May 16, 2011)

Brown whole heartedly believes that driving is the most dangerous part of the job of an Ambulance Officer meaning they must be a thoroughly capable, skilled and professional driver.

Hardest part to overcome? The damn 40 hour logbook requirement, i.e. 40 hours of driving after passing the pre-course test and classroom/practical assessments  before being allowed to take the practical assessment for p1 driving.

40 hours sure comes slow when its built in 10 and 15 minute blocks


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## emt seeking first job (May 16, 2011)

adamjh3 said:


> Some people get so nervous and drive so carefully to the point of it being unsafe. Taking a solid two minutes to back out of a driveway while I'm standing in traffic to back you? Yeah...



I teach passenger car driving professionally. 

I would recommend taking the person to an empty lot to back up first, let them drive around forwards a bit before backing out into traffic or into a bay.

That would build up confidence a bit and lessen chance of the person freezing up.


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## HotelCo (May 16, 2011)

When I first started, it was odd using the mirrors instead of turning my head to look to see if the lane was clear. Now, its just normal.


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## emt seeking first job (May 16, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> When I first started, it was odd using the mirrors instead of turning my head to look to see if the lane was clear. Now, its just normal.



I have many passenger car students that dont do that. Many people do not. I just grew up doing it.

One thing I got from the CEVO class was leaning forward in the seat to get a better view in the mirror.


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## Pneumothorax (May 16, 2011)

running people over thinking they are speed bumps...

jokinnnnnng!


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## the_negro_puppy (May 16, 2011)

Having to constantly put myself and the public in danger driving lights and sirens to patients who are neither time nor transport critical.

Having to deal with morons on the road who have no idea what do when there is an emergency vehicle running lights and sirens near them.


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## medicstudent101 (May 16, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> Having to constantly put myself and the public in danger driving lights and sirens to patients who are neither time nor transport critical.
> 
> Having to deal with morons on the road who have no idea what do when there is an emergency vehicle running lights and sirens near them.



Although I happen to agree. Lets be real though, It's fun. It's why 80% of us got into EMS.


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## emt seeking first job (May 16, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> Having to constantly put myself and the public in danger driving lights and sirens to patients who are neither time nor transport critical.



Don't you have the option of holding back a bit ?

Reagrdless of the situtation, we are still accountable for any crashes.


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## HotelCo (May 16, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> Don't you have the option of holding back a bit ?
> 
> Reagrdless of the situtation, we are still accountable for any crashes.



Drunk driver slams into you while you're stopped at a red light. EMT/Paramedic's fault? Nope.


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## emt seeking first job (May 16, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Drunk driver slams into you while you're stopped at a red light. EMT/Paramedic's fault? Nope.



When the other vehicle crashes into us from the rear, that would be the exception.


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## the_negro_puppy (May 17, 2011)

medicstudent101 said:


> Although I happen to agree. Lets be real though, It's fun. It's why 80% of us got into EMS.



Oh it can be fun, but it's not a game


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## medicdan (May 17, 2011)

From THIS week's American Journal of Emergency Medicine:



> Am J Emerg Med. 2011 May 11. [Epub ahead of print]
> Use of a limited lights and siren protocol in the prehospital setting vs standard usage.
> Merlin MA, Baldino KT, Lehrfeld DP, Linger M, Lustiger E, Cascio A, Ohman-Strickland P, Dossantos F.
> Source
> ...


Taken from pubmed (emphasis added).
I have the full article for those interested, but don't want to share it publicly (I got it through institutional access).


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## ArcticKat (May 17, 2011)

Not too sure how many here us the MPDS system but many years ago we adjusted our policies to respond L & S to only Delta and Echo determinates and limited the use of them when patient outcomes would not be affected by the delay.


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## medicstudent101 (May 17, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> Oh it can be fun, but it's not a game




Hahahaha. Win.


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## emt seeking first job (May 17, 2011)

medicstudent101 said:


> Hahahaha. Win.



I recognize the actor, but what movie is that ?


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## MMiz (May 17, 2011)

The hardest part for me was being a smooth driver and remembering that there was as EMT and patient in the back.


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## ArcticKat (May 17, 2011)

emt seeking first job said:


> I recognize the actor, but what movie is that ?



American Pie


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## nicolel3440 (May 17, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Brown whole heartedly believes that driving is the most dangerous part of the job of an Ambulance Officer meaning they must be a thoroughly capable, skilled and professional driver.
> 
> Hardest part to overcome? The damn 40 hour logbook requirement, i.e. 40 hours of driving after passing the pre-course test and classroom/practical assessments  before being allowed to take the practical assessment for p1 driving.
> 
> 40 hours sure comes slow when its built in 10 and 15 minute blocks



i wish that we got this kind of training or any training at all really.  we had to take the evoc which is five min of driveing around a parking lot three times.  And our ambulance com gave us no training or anything we were just expected to get in and go.  I did an ambulance transport to philly today and i hated it cause i really dont have that much experiance driveing and there big city streets with a lot of one way streets and small lanes.  It was awful.


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## EMT2B (May 20, 2011)

I was concerned about this too.  Especially since I haven't driven any vehicle with any regularity since August 2009 when I was in an accident on my motorscooter.  I have rented the occasional car in the mean time for certain things I needed, but they've all been very small (and therefore less expensive to rent) cars.  Any tips?


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## JPINFV (May 20, 2011)

Tips?
http://emtmedicalstudent.wordpress.com/2010/12/21/ambulance-driving-tricks-and-tips/

On a side note, I never really had a problem getting used to driving an ambulance, despite the "formal" training period being 3 days with an FTO (which really wasn't helpful), and an EVO day that was a complete and utter waste of time.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 20, 2011)

The hardest part for me is going opposing. I was always taught to stay on the right side of the yellow lines. But when going code we are constantly to the left of the yellow lines.


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## firetender (May 20, 2011)

*Every six months...*

...gather the FNG's and a brand new ambulance in a parking lot. One by one, each Newbie (no one riding shotgun) drives the ambulance through drills; most of which should be in reverse. Familiarization with turning radius, slalom-type maneuvers, emergency braking (wet and dry) should all be done with the liberal use of traffic cones.

You've all heard this before but my only modification is that your fellow FNG's be the traffic cones.


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## exodus (May 20, 2011)

firetender said:


> ...gather the FNG's and a brand new ambulance in a parking lot. One by one, each Newbie (no one riding shotgun) drives the ambulance through drills; most of which should be in reverse. Familiarization with turning radius, slalom-type maneuvers, emergency braking (wet and dry) should all be done with the liberal use of traffic cones.
> 
> You've all heard this before but my only modification is that your fellow FNG's be the traffic cones.



The way my partner taught me was that she set a cell phone and keys on the flat section of the center console. If it slides around, there's too many g's.


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## exodus (May 20, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Tips?
> http://emtmedicalstudent.wordpress.com/2010/12/21/ambulance-driving-tricks-and-tips/
> 
> On a side note, I never really had a problem getting used to driving an ambulance, despite the "formal" training period being 3 days with an FTO (which really wasn't helpful), and an EVO day that was a complete and utter waste of time.



I'm gonna print that out and post it at work!


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## ethorp (May 22, 2011)

I went through police evoc wich was 12 hours behind the wheel and 4 in the class room. But when I started work all that was required of me was to drive around some cones and back up once. I think mu ch more training should be required. And that police evoc was not done for the ambulace it was for some thing else.


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## IAems (May 22, 2011)

Just remember that if your partner and patient are in the back you should be going as slow as is safe (in other words the speed limit, or no more than 10 mph faster if going Code).  Read the road; when cars hit bumps in the road oil drips from the oil pan to the road and this happens over and over and over as multiple cars hit those bumps. The bigger the oil marks in the road, the bigger the bump that is coming, so as the driver you can know to slow down.  Remember, we all want to get the patient to the hospital fast, but if your partner can't start a line or intubate or auscultate or even write a PCR because they're too busy bouncing off the walls, you might as well be a taxi cab.  The Marine Corp has a saying, "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."B)


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## JPINFV (May 22, 2011)

What does the speed limit have to do with safe? Safe speed is safe, regardless of what the random number on some sign says.


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## sop (Jul 19, 2011)

My concern is entering and exiting an interstate.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jul 19, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> What does the speed limit have to do with safe? Safe speed is safe, regardless of what the random number on some sign says.



Agreed, half the time here the speed of traffic is 10 to 15 over. I wouldn't consider it unsafe to run 20 over on the highway with light traffic, so long as you're going a reasonable speed and people are aware of your presence long before you get to them.


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## Sasha (Jul 19, 2011)

I wouldn't know, they don't even let me touch the steering wheel anymore.


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## TransportJockey (Jul 19, 2011)

I don't drive often anymore, which is nice. I hate driving the damned bus, especially while running code. I'd much rather write all the reports and not have to drive.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 19, 2011)

IAems said:


> or even write a PCR because they're too busy bouncing off the walls



If your partner is writing a pcr the pt doesn't need to be ran code back to the hospital...either that or you need a new partner.


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## Sasha (Jul 19, 2011)

TransportJockey said:


> I don't drive often anymore, which is nice. I hate driving the damned bus, especially while running code. I'd much rather write all the reports and not have to drive.



I'd kill to be able to drive again. Gosh, you hit one person in the cross walk and they act like you're dangerous.


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## TransportJockey (Jul 19, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I'd kill to be able to drive again. Gosh, you hit one person in the cross walk and they act like you're dangerous.



Heh, one of the reasons  they won't let me drive is having a competition with myself for how far I can send the hobo flying  That and ya know, rolling an ambulance a few years back.


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## Sasha (Jul 19, 2011)

TransportJockey said:


> Heh, one of the reasons  they won't let me drive is having a competition with myself for how far I can send the hobo flying  That and ya know, rolling an ambulance a few years back.



One advantage to not driving though, is I don't have to pay attention to the road when we are playing "Spot the hooker". (PS don't point.. if they're not a hooker and you're pointing and laughing they get upset.)


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## enjoynz (Jul 20, 2011)

Here is a link to how one ambulance service in NZ trains their drivers...it was nothing like the training I was given, which was through St John.

As attached:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5204681/Patients-life-rests-in-their-hands/


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## lifesavingsob (Jul 25, 2011)

*driving*



emt seeking first job said:


> What was the hardest part for you to overcome ?
> 
> For me it was the fact I can not look at the back, regardless of the curved mirrors and back-up camera. Also, I need to make wider right turns.
> 
> ...


Probably the hardest part for me was learning to drive smoothly with the medic in the back, while operating the lights/sirens, talking on the radio, eating, adjusting the music, and driving with my knee. I've gotten pretty good at it though...


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## marineman (Jul 25, 2011)

firetender said:


> ...gather the FNG's and a brand new ambulance in a parking lot. One by one, each Newbie (no one riding shotgun) drives the ambulance through drills; most of which should be in reverse. Familiarization with turning radius, slalom-type maneuvers, emergency braking (wet and dry) should all be done with the liberal use of traffic cones.
> 
> You've all heard this before but my only modification is that your fellow FNG's be the traffic cones.



That would be a very effective approach. Our company everyone has to take turns being strapped to a long board on the cot while someone else drives. It's amazing how quickly some people improve their driving after getting off the cot.


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## mommak90 (Jul 28, 2011)

medicstudent101 said:


> Although I happen to agree. Lets be real though, It's fun. It's why 80% of us got into EMS.



^^^ Agree on that one!


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## Bullets (Jul 28, 2011)

emt.dan said:


> From THIS week's American Journal of Emergency Medicine:
> 
> 
> Taken from pubmed (emphasis added).
> I have the full article for those interested, but don't want to share it publicly (I got it through institutional access).



this was on the front page of EMS1 and the docs over there pretty much ripped the study apart, their methods were poor, the control wasnt, and a number of other problems made them say the test results wouldnt be accurate

also, when we get drivers training, the new guys get placed in full cspine precautions, strapped to the cot and driven around. then they make you guess the speed your driving and turning at. pretty eye opening


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## adamjh3 (Jul 28, 2011)

Bullets said:


> also, when we get drivers training, the new guys get placed in full cspine precautions, strapped to the cot and driven around. then they make you guess the speed your driving and turning at. pretty eye opening



I am stealing this and using it for all the guys who toss me around when I'm in the back


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## fafinaf (Jul 30, 2011)

did you know that going lights and sirens increases the chances of an accident to 75%? that's a scary thought. a 15,000 lb ambulance takes a little more time to stop then a car. takes some people a little to figure that out.


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## HotelCo (Jul 30, 2011)

fafinaf said:


> did you know that going lights and sirens increases the chances of an accident to 75%? that's a scary thought. a 15,000 lb ambulance takes a little more time to stop then a car. takes some people a little to figure that out.



Cite your source, please.


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## fafinaf (Jul 30, 2011)

my instructors at school always told us that.. i'm not sure where they got it from. maybe they kept telling us that to drill the importance of safe driving to us.


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## Tigger (Jul 30, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Cite your source, please.



Additionally, what does that statement even mean? Increases chances of an accident to 75%...so running priority means that you are 75% more likely to be involved in a crash? Compared to what?


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## JPINFV (Jul 30, 2011)

Tigger said:


> Additionally, what does that statement even mean? Increases chances of an accident to 75%...so running priority means that you are 75% more likely to be involved in a crash? Compared to what?


Compared to BANANAS!


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## fafinaf (Jul 31, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Compared to BANANAS!



This


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## Melclin (Jul 31, 2011)

Concentrating on L&S driving while also trying to navigate. 

Selecting options at crowded intersections. Pass on the left, the right, split the traffic or just stop. I'm always inclined to just stop. 

My driving standards facilitator said I'm too cautious. I don't agree. I don't see the need to drive down the wrong side of the road to a nose bleed. Besides, at the end of the day, if it losing a few seconds really did hurt the pt, better them than me.


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## guttruck (Jul 31, 2011)

My bigest problem was i was use to driving firetrucks emergency traffic and then going to the truck its really diffrent.


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