# AMR Hiring SoCal?



## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

*Hey guys, long time lurker, first post.*
Ive been working as a EMT doing IFT for a quick second now down in Socal, and want to try to move to a ALS job. Should I wait and apply to AMR Riverside next time they are hiring, ( who knows when that will be though) or man up and deal with a hour and a half commute to AMR San Diego or AMR Redlands? 
Thanks in advance.


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## gonefishing (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> *Hey guys, long time lurker, first post.*
> Ive been working as a EMT doing IFT for a quick second now down in Socal, and want to try to move to a ALS job. Should I wait and apply to AMR Riverside next time they are hiring, ( who knows when that will be though) or man up and deal with a hour and a half commute to AMR San Diego or AMR Redlands?
> Thanks in advance.


Does it have to be AMR? Have you looked into Hall? They will put you through their medic program for free and pay you while attending. Grass is greener than AMR.


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## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

gonefishing said:


> Does it have to be AMR? Have you looked into Hall? They will put you through their medic program for free and pay you while attending. Grass is greener than AMR.


I would love to go work for hall, Ive heard nothing but great things. But Bakersfield is more then a three hour drive away for me.


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## gonefishing (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> I would love to go work for hall, Ive heard nothing but great things. But Bakersfield is more then a three hour drive away for me.


What area you coming from? If you have nothing weighing you down, it's a very affordable place to live.


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## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

gonefishing said:


> What area you coming from? If you have nothing weighing you down, it's a very affordable place to live.


Murrieta. Ive thought about maybe going out there and renting a room or something. But I havent been able to summon the courage to do anything like that yet.


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## gonefishing (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Murrieta. Ive thought about maybe going out there and renting a room or something. But I havent been able to summon the courage to do anything like that yet.


I rented a 2 bedroom 900 sqft apartment with 2 bathrooms and a balcony for $800 a month 3 years ago when I started out. I only had to pay for the electric bill.


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## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

gonefishing said:


> I rented a 2 bedroom 900 sqft apartment with 2 bathrooms and a balcony for $800 a month 3 years ago when I started out. I only had to pay for the electric bill.


Dang thats not too bad at all. I'll def have to look into heading that direction. I really have nothing left here in Murrieta for me. Its just where all my family lives, other then that no commitments.


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## gonefishing (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Dang thats not too bad at all. I'll def have to look into heading that direction. I really have nothing left here in Murrieta for me. Its just where all my family lives, other then that no commitments.


Hall also still gives out a moving bonus I beleive. Their are rooms for rent as alot of nurses rent out etc. Theirs also air bnb which is a cheap option if you just wanna come for work. All shifts are pretty much 12s, 4 days on 3 off, 3 on 4 off.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 28, 2019)

AMR -Riverside as you stated is your closest option. I’ve heard mixed reviews from current and former employees. From the current sounds of things it sounds like it is pretty bad over there. However things might change with their new union contract (key word is maybe). 

I would highly recommend you look into AMR - Hemet/Pass division. It’s only a 40 minute drive from Murrieta. I have picked up several shifts there in the past and have always been impressed with how they handle things.


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## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> AMR -Riverside as you stated is your closest option. I’ve heard mixed reviews from current and former employees. From the current sounds of things it sounds like it is pretty bad over there. However things might change with their new union contract (key word is maybe).
> 
> I would highly recommend you look into AMR - Hemet/Pass division. It’s only a 40 minute drive from Murrieta. I have picked up several shifts there in the past and have always been impressed with how they handle things.


I’ve heard good things about Hemet Division as well. 
Honest opinion, I’ve heard if I go into their main station in Hemet and hand in my resume to a manager even if theyre not actively hiring that it looks really good. Thoughts?


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> I’ve heard good things about Hemet Division as well.
> Honest opinion, I’ve heard if I go into their main station in Hemet and hand in my resume to a manager even if theyre not actively hiring that it looks really good. Thoughts?


It used to be that way everywhere. You can still give it a try but don’t be surprised when they say “the entire process is online now”. AMRs HR department, which is based in Rancho, handles all the applications/resumes. They will then set up testing and interview days for you at Hemet division.


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## gonefishing (Apr 28, 2019)

Hemets only looking for medics right now. Hemet use to be hemet ambulance and most the employees are still there. So it's still an old school division separated from all the drama.


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## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

gonefishing said:


> Hemets only looking for medics right now. Hemet use to be hemet ambulance and most the employees are still there. So it's still an old school division separated from all the drama.


Ya I didn’t see any openings online. I know Hemet and riverside both just finished a hiring spree so who knows when they’ll have open applications again.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Ya I didn’t see any openings online. I know Hemet and riverside both just finished a hiring spree so who knows when they’ll have open applications again.


Honestly it is a bad time to try to get picked up in Riverside county as an EMT. The Stagecoach and Coachella festivals are almost done. We hire between 30-40 EMTs just for the festivals. Once they are done those employees get placed on a first to hire list for the division of their choice.


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## teufulhund (Apr 28, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Honestly it is a bad time to try to get picked up in Riverside county as an EMT. The Stagecoach and Coachella festivals are almost done. We hire between 30-40 EMTs just for the festivals. Once they are done those employees get placed on a first to hire list for the division of their choice.


So I’m better off getting on with another division and transfer after six months.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 28, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> So I’m better off getting on with another division and transfer after six months.


I don’t have the exact details or enough information to tell you what would be the best option. I’m pretty out of touch with Hemet and Riverside divisions. 

Technically you are able to transfer after 6 months it does not always happen that quick. The division you are leaving has to agree to let you go and the division you are transferring to has to have an opening. I know a couple of EMTs who have waited up to a year for their transfer to get approved.


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## DrParasite (Apr 29, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> The Stagecoach and Coachella festivals are almost done.


I hope none of your coworkers hooked up with any of the participants during their off hours....
https://abc7chicago.com/health/coachella-herpes-festival-area-sees-record-surge/5272404/


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## teufulhund (Apr 29, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> I hope none of your coworkers hooked up with any of the participants during their off hours....
> https://abc7chicago.com/health/coachella-herpes-festival-area-sees-record-surge/5272404/


Just what AMR needs... more herpes


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## jgmedic (Apr 29, 2019)

If I ever had to work for AMR again, I'd only go to Hemet, I put in close to 10 years there. Management with very few exceptions is pretty solid. Their ops manager is hands down the best boss I've ever had. It's a great place to get experience, though from when I started to when I left, the standards went wayyyyy down. They used to have some of the highest clinical standards for medics and a great rep throughout the county. The HVAS feel is still there a little bit, but AMR corporate has been doing their best to get rid of it.  Over anywhere else in the area though, definitely. I worked at Hall too, and if you want to move, it's a better company than AMR.


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## Mufasa556 (Apr 29, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> I hope none of your coworkers hooked up with any of the participants during their off hours....
> https://abc7chicago.com/health/coachella-herpes-festival-area-sees-record-surge/5272404/



You’d be amazed at what goes on in the AMR area alone when they’re off duty. I worked three divisions away and heard the stories. Made me never want to work the event.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 29, 2019)

Mufasa556 said:


> You’d be amazed at what goes on in the AMR area alone when they’re off duty. I worked three divisions away and heard the stories. Made me never want to work the event.


I have worked the events since 2011 and personally have not had any issues. The problems are all at the staff camping area (that area is pretty much only populated by Riverside division employees). 

It’s an MCI so all of our treatments are standing order, there is very little paperwork (i usually work the medic carts so it’s just vitals and demos and that’s it).


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## Virgil (Apr 30, 2019)

AMR Riverside is doing interviews, just got the email yesterday.


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## Rano Pano (Apr 30, 2019)

Not looking to restart any of the very opinionated post about Riverside; but I am curious if someone could comment if the division is still negotiating?


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 30, 2019)

Rano Pano said:


> Not looking to restart any of the very opinionated post about Riverside; but I am curious if someone could comment if the division is still negotiating?


Not what they were asking for but better than their current situation. I’m sure AMR is already finding ways around a lot of the talk in the contract.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 30, 2019)

Definitely better than my current employer, which is decidedly less friendly.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 30, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> Definitely better than my current employer, which is decidedly less friendly.


AMR is slowly becoming better in Riverside county and the scope of practice is also slowly increasing (push dose pressors, Ketamine, TXA)


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## DrParasite (May 1, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Not what they were asking for but better than their current situation. I’m sure AMR is already finding ways around a lot of the talk in the contract.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a press release from the union.... says they won a lot, what did they have to give up to get it?  What is the new article on attendance?  That 30 minute second out might work, until a supervisor says they are closest unit and a further unit wouldn't meet response times.  In fact, an on the ball dispatch supervisor would tell dispatch to do a further unit, to prevent OT for the off going crew.  For that last 15 minutes, I would hate to see the news media when grandma who lives down from the block from the station dies, because she went into cardiac arrest 14 minutes before shift change, so a further ambulance was sent.....

dispatch should have already been sending units back to their home base when levels permit.  no reason to keep them far from their home base, other than poor dispatching and poor system management.

can't believe you had to "win" the right to file a grievance by email, vs certified mail or hand delivery, especially when you work out of multiple stations.

what does "won work station language giving union a voice in system status?"  Does that mean the union officers can tell a supervisor when they are at low numbers?  or that they can't send a unit to cover a coverage hole?

"won language on CISM, allowing PTO after a critical incident." Does this time come out of the employee's PTO bank?  or is it a seperate CISM bank, and treated like an on the job injury, so if you need a few days to recover from an injury, it is covered by your workman's comp and not your vacation or sick time?

I'm curious what the camera regulations are in the ambulance or in the station.  if you aren't doing anything wrong, why is this a problem?  and according to most PD officer, they don't want cameras, but cameras often prove them innocent when they are falsely accused of doing something.

what was the improved language on part time employment?

your employer wanted to search employee vehicles?  I would have said not without a search warrant signed by a judge.  Geez, apparently it was a lot worse than I expected, but that's why you need a contract.

I hope the union members actually read the agreement, because all too often what the union press release says and what the contract actually said might be far apart.  But it looks like the new contract should improve things for the members; my only concern would be (if I was a union member) what did they give up to get all these wins?


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## BASICallyEMT (May 1, 2019)

You are just still so negative about our win. This is a win when its in regards to AMR... List us one divison that has made more progress?



DrParasite said:


> That's a press release from the union.... says they won a lot, what did they have to give up to get it?  What is the new article on attendance?  That 30 minute second out might work, until a supervisor says they are closest unit and a further unit wouldn't meet response times.  In fact, an on the ball dispatch supervisor would tell dispatch to do a further unit, to prevent OT for the off going crew.  For that last 15 minutes, I would hate to see the news media when grandma who lives down from the block from the station dies, because she went into cardiac arrest 14 minutes before shift change, so a further ambulance was sent.....
> 
> dispatch should have already been sending units back to their home base when levels permit.  no reason to keep them far from their home base, other than poor dispatching and poor system management.
> 
> ...


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## BASICallyEMT (May 1, 2019)

DrParasite said:


> That's a press release from the union.... says they won a lot, what did they have to give up to get it?  What is the new article on attendance?  That 30 minute second out might work, until a supervisor says they are closest unit and a further unit wouldn't meet response times.  In fact, an on the ball dispatch supervisor would tell dispatch to do a further unit, to prevent OT for the off going crew.  For that last 15 minutes, I would hate to see the news media when grandma who lives down from the block from the station dies, because she went into cardiac arrest 14 minutes before shift change, so a further ambulance was sent.....
> 
> dispatch should have already been sending units back to their home base when levels permit.  no reason to keep them far from their home base, other than poor dispatching and poor system management.
> 
> ...



 And FYI we didn't give up crap. It's hard to give something up when you don't have anything to begin with.


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## RocketMedic (May 1, 2019)

I’m curious about the new pay tables. Those are some significant increases, would not be surprised if the goal is to staunch the overtime bleeding.


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## DrParasite (May 1, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> You are just still so negative about our win. This is a win when its in regards to AMR... List us one divison that has made more progress?
> 
> And FYI we didn't give up crap. It's hard to give something up when you don't have anything to begin with.


Let me give you a life lesson skippy: when you negotiate, you win some, and you lose some.  All too often, for everything you gain, you have to give something up.  That's how negotiations work.  And if AMR did give you everything you asked for, and asked for nothing in return, than they had some really sucky negotiators.

I have no doubt that you gained many of the things you were asking for, but don't think that AMR gave them to you out of the goodness of their hearts, or just because you asked for it.  If it was negotiated for, than they got something in return, or were willing to give something up in exchange for getting that item. 

I've been through contract negotiations, I've had union shop stewards tell me "yeah, the contract says this, but it's going to take a court case to force the employer to follow through on the contract," as well as been told "yeah, the contract says this, but I'm not going to go to management with that complaint, because all it will do is piss them off, and I have my own career to look at too."  I've also had the union tell me something was in the works, and management knew nothing about it, or the supervisors had 0 intention of implementing that change, especially before the contract was signed and distributed to the general membership.

And for the record, I don't know of a single AMR division that has made more progress than you did, so maybe Riverside will now be a trend setter. 

Or maybe your right, and things were soooo horribly bad in Riverside, that they needed to give you something that was a minor concession on the grounds that you didn't cause them any negative PR.....  and this is a win, and AMR Riverside will go from a horrible place to work, to an awesome place to work, and in a year or two, you can rub it in my face how I was all negative and you were right all along.  But I wouldn't bet my paycheck on that if I was you....


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## CCCSD (May 1, 2019)

Apparently, he doesn’t want to answer your questions, except give you the “We are so tough, Corporate ran off with their tails between their legs...” bs.


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## teufulhund (May 1, 2019)

Virgil said:


> AMR Riverside is doing interviews, just got the email yesterday.


EMTs or Medics?


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## Virgil (May 1, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> EMTs or Medics?


EMTs for sure, medics I don’t know about. 

He said assuming the interview goes well, either I’ll get placed on a waitlist for the next time they hire or I get pushed into an orientation class.


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## teufulhund (May 1, 2019)

Virgil said:


> EMTs for sure, medics I don’t know about.
> 
> He said assuming the interview goes well, either I’ll get placed on a waitlist for the next time they hire or I get pushed into an orientation class.


Nice man! Good luck with that hopefully it goes good. 
I don’t see anything on the website but I’ll keep a keen eye out.


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## Virgil (May 2, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Nice man! Good luck with that hopefully it goes good.
> I don’t see anything on the website but I’ll keep a keen eye out.


Thanks friend, if I hear anything about medic slots I'll let you know.


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## Medic4life50 (May 3, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> *Hey guys, long time lurker, first post.*
> Ive been working as a EMT doing IFT for a quick second now down in Socal, and want to try to move to a ALS job. Should I wait and apply to AMR Riverside next time they are hiring, ( who knows when that will be though) or man up and deal with a hour and a half commute to AMR San Diego or AMR Redlands?
> Thanks in advance.


You can apply at Morongo Basin Ambulance up in Joshua Tree. FT is a straight 72 hr shift.


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## teufulhund (May 3, 2019)

Medic4life50 said:


> You can apply at Morongo Basin Ambulance up in Joshua Tree. FT is a straight 72 hr shift.


That doesn’t sound too bad. Never heard of that company before, how are they?


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## Medic4life50 (May 3, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> That doesn’t sound too bad. Never heard of that company before, how are they?


I’ve been there for nearly 19 years. Part time for the last year. Some great experiences and just like any company you have IFTs. It’s a great place to work


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## DesertMedic66 (May 3, 2019)

Medic4life50 said:


> I’ve been there for nearly 19 years. Part time for the last year. Some great experiences and just like any company you have IFTs. It’s a great place to work


We have about a dozen of your former employees at my part time job haha


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## teufulhund (May 3, 2019)

Medic4life50 said:


> I’ve been there for nearly 19 years. Part time for the last year. Some great experiences and just like any company you have IFTs. It’s a great place to work


Thanks man I’ll look into it!


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## teufulhund (May 4, 2019)

Medic4life50 said:


> I’ve been there for nearly 19 years. Part time for the last year. Some great experiences and just like any company you have IFTs. It’s a great place to work


What’s their part time schedule look like? 
(That’s all they’re hiring, based off their website)


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## Medic4life50 (May 5, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> That doesn’t sound too bad. Never heard of that company before, how are they?


I’ve been there for nearly 19 years. Part time for the last year. Some great experiences and just like any company you have IFTs. It’s a great place to work.


teufulhund said:


> What’s their part time schedule look like?
> (That’s all they’re hiring, based off their website)


you have to pick up a minimum of two days a month


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## BASICallyEMT (May 5, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Apparently, he doesn’t want to answer your questions, except give you the “We are so tough, Corporate ran off with their tails between their legs...” bs.


Interesting. I actually didn't feel Iike wasting my time answering ridiculous questions. To be part time in Riverside, AMR requires you work 3 shifts a month.


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## RocketMedic (May 5, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Interesting. I actually didn't feel Iike wasting my time answering ridiculous questions. To be part time in Riverside, AMR requires you work 3 shifts a month.



How’s medic pay?


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## CCCSD (May 5, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Interesting. I actually didn't feel Iike wasting my time answering ridiculous questions. To be part time in Riverside, AMR requires you work 3 shifts a month.



Because the answers don’t satisfy your agenda...?


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## BASICallyEMT (May 6, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> How’s medic pay?


Well right now starting medic I believe is like $16.60ish. Once the new contract goes through it will be almost $19


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## Rano Pano (May 6, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Well right now starting medic I believe is like $16.60ish. Once the new contract goes through it will be almost $19



The difference in starting wages between EMT & Paramedic are that close?
About $1.60 prior and only $2 after the new contract? That’s kinda rough.


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## BASICallyEMT (May 6, 2019)

Yep. They made the gap bigger this go around just waiting on the official pay scale. They wanted to give more incentive to get your Paramedic license.


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## RocketMedic (May 6, 2019)

BASICallyEMT said:


> Yep. They made the gap bigger this go around just waiting on the official pay scale. They wanted to give more incentive to get your Paramedic license.



I wonder if they pay decently well for experience.


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## teufulhund (May 6, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> I wonder if they pay decently well for experience.


I’ve heard, with San Diego at least, if you apply with experience from another company you’ll get paid more then someone who’s been with AMR for that same length of time.


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## jgmedic (May 6, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> I wonder if they pay decently well for experience.


You have to ask for it and it depends on the division.


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## RocketMedic (May 6, 2019)

How does scene control work out there in San Diego and Riverside? Like is it a college of peers/equals, transporting in charge, etc or is AMR totally subordinate to Fire a la “Emergency”


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## DesertMedic66 (May 6, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> How does scene control work out there in San Diego and Riverside? Like is it a college of peers/equals, transporting in charge, etc or is AMR totally subordinate to Fire a la “Emergency”


For Riverside county the first medic to arrive on scene has patient care. If it’s a fire medic then they are supposed to hand over all patient care ASAP when the transport medic has arrived by county protocol.


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## Virgil (May 7, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> For Riverside county the first medic to arrive on scene has patient care. If it’s a fire medic then they are supposed to hand over all patient care ASAP when the transport medic has arrived by county protocol.


If that's the case, are most AMR Riverside rigs ALS? Is it two Medics, Basic/Medic, or both sometimes?


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## DesertMedic66 (May 7, 2019)

Virgil said:


> If that's the case, are most AMR Riverside rigs ALS? Is it two Medics, Basic/Medic, or both sometimes?


All ambulances that respond to 911 calls are staffed ALS, usually Medic/EMT however they can sometimes be staffed EMT/EMT. 

Under current county policy BLS units can run 911 calls only in the event the closest ALS unit is going to take >30 minutes to arrive on scene however they must take a firefighter paramedic with them while transporting. The county still has the view that all 911 calls will have a medic in charge of patient care no matter the complaint.


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## Virgil (May 7, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> All ambulances that respond to 911 calls are staffed ALS, usually Medic/EMT however they can sometimes be staffed EMT/EMT.
> 
> Under current county policy BLS units can run 911 calls only in the event the closest ALS unit is going to take >30 minutes to arrive on scene however they must take a firefighter paramedic with them while transporting. The county still has the view that all 911 calls will have a medic in charge of patient care no matter the complaint.


Interesting, and I've heard that the scope of practice for EMTs is a bit bigger than LA, is this true or is it more ALS assist than LA County?


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## DesertMedic66 (May 7, 2019)

Virgil said:


> Interesting, and I've heard that the scope of practice for EMTs is a bit bigger than LA, is this true or is it more ALS assist than LA County?


Neither county has stellar EMT protocols so it’s a toss up. If you are on a 911 ambulance you may get to use some of your skills. If you are on a BLS IFT ambulance then you will likely not use your skills often at all.


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## Virgil (May 7, 2019)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Neither county has stellar EMT protocols so it’s a toss up. If you are on a 911 ambulance you may get to use some of your skills. If you are on a BLS IFT ambulance then you will likely not use your skills often at all.


Fair enough, thanks for the responses, just trying to wrap my head around everything before the interview.


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## VentMonkey (May 7, 2019)

In Kern Co. BLS (EMT/ EMT) ambulances run all sorts of 911 calls without any paramedics whatsoever, do handoffs/ receive handoffs from paramedics etc., and utilize their BLS skills daily. Just sayin'...


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## Virgil (May 7, 2019)

VentMonkey said:


> In Kern Co. BLS (EMT/ EMT) ambulances run all sorts of 911 calls without any paramedics whatsoever, do handoffs/ receive handoffs from paramedics etc., and utilize their BLS skills daily. Just sayin'...



I commute two hours one way now, into Santa Monica. I don't have a desire to see such commutes for a long time lol. Maybe once I get little more beneath my belt I can head out to northern pastures.


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## RocketMedic (May 8, 2019)

VentMonkey said:


> In Kern Co. BLS (EMT/ EMT) ambulances run all sorts of 911 calls without any paramedics whatsoever, do handoffs/ receive handoffs from paramedics etc., and utilize their BLS skills daily. Just sayin'...



Can medics turf patients to BLS?


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## VentMonkey (May 8, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> Can medics turf patients to BLS?


Yes.


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## RocketMedic (May 8, 2019)

VentMonkey said:


> Yes.



Dude. Kern County is WAY more progressive than 98% of Texas. Why am I not there?


I've realized that RSI doesn't matter in the vast majority of cases. Nor does a bunch of the other esoteric things we keep/do. A lot of what we do do isn't particularly wise or smart or medically-indicated, and I fear that the Texan EMS culture often needlessly derides informed medical consultation in order to follow a protocol or "cowboy" through things.

I'm over it.


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## VentMonkey (May 8, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> Dude. Kern County is WAY more progressive than 98% of Texas. Why am I not there?


I think we both know that this isn’t true.


RocketMedic said:


> A lot of what we do do isn't particularly wise or smart or medically-indicated, and I fear that the Texan EMS culture often needlessly derides informed medical consultation in order to follow a protocol or "cowboy" through things.


This is “heroic” EMS culture in general, not exclusive to Texas.

Because I respect both your opinions on here, and the educational efforts that you’ve made to hone yourself as a professional in an industry that’s got mixed views and signals on what exactly it is that defines such, I’ll say this:

You’ve got to stop selling yourself short...to yourself. Hopping from one job to the next probably isn’t the solution to your search for an “EMS unicorn”. There is no unicorn.

To me, it sounds as if you’ve got a clinicians heart, and an administrators mind. From firsthand experience this can be a pretty hard thing to grapple with. 

Truth be told though, if you really want to make changes, you need to decide whether it’s more hands-on clinically, or behind-the-scenes administratively. 

You could probably start with the former, and segue into the latter. But again, grinding it out with realistic approaches to whatever agenda that the current administrations you’re under has (wherever it may inevitably be) is, well, inevitable.

TLDR~ you’re going to have to start from the bottom and work your way up somewhere with an open mind. //shrugs// At least your educational background should help the threshold to your promotional aspirations a shorter one.

And just to re-rail the thread: Hall is always hiring.

#LongLiveTheCult.


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## DrParasite (May 8, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> Dude. Kern County is WAY more progressive than 98% of Texas. Why am I not there?[/qupte]Is that all your looking for?  Go to NJ then.  Or Delaware.  or find another system that is a tiered EMS system
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## RocketMedic (May 9, 2019)

Indeed, our individual services set our scopes of practice. And sometimes it's great. Other times, they're handing people laryngyscopes and paralytics without appropriate anything. And the chances to use those "skills" are rare.


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## rescue1 (May 9, 2019)

RocketMedic said:


> Indeed, our individual services set our scopes of practice. And sometimes it's great. Other times, they're handing people laryngyscopes and paralytics without appropriate anything. And the chances to use those "skills" are rare.



Have you ever thought of going back to school? CRNA, PA, NP, Doctor, etc? If you're looking for significant education and an ability to do cool procedures on a fairly regular basis (and not have to worry about if you're actually helping the patient, like with routine RSI) I just don't think you're going to find it in EMS, except maybe in some flight programs.


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## RocketMedic (May 10, 2019)

@VentMonkey
I have very little desire to be "more" clinically. Quite frankly, the bandwidth isn't there. I'm a pretty smart dude with a lot of bandwidth and I feel like it's maxed out at times. There's a reason that big things are done in teams. Having one person be responsible for everything under the sun clinically doesn't work in our environment in an unlimited setting without a lot of luck, and luck is a finite resource. With that being said, I really really enjoy the science and practice of education and the process of education, and I really want to lean more towards the educational role than operational or pure-administrative (although my dream job has a decent portion of all three disciplines).

With that in mind, @rescue1 , I'm not terribly enthused about going to more _clinical_ school. I have no desire to be a physician; their job looks horrible. The money can be OK, but I really don't enjoy the repetitive performance of clinical procedures; I really don't even particularly enjoy blood&guts and such (although there is a part of me that does enjoy the challenge posed by a sick/injured patient). I really like working with _systems, _helping set people up for success. It's a challenge just as great (and rewarding) as clinical medicine, and I am pretty good at it. In fact, looking back at my career so far, most of my discontent is actually coming from dissatisfaction at working conditions and systems to a significant degree, not anything clinical. One of the better jobs I've had (that I left out of a combination of dissatisfaction with how we were treated and need to keep going to school -vs- "junior supervisor" roles that precluded school) encapsulated it perfectly...clinically excellent care, but no leadership support for doing the right thing for patients and crews. A safety nap or declined/delayed non-emergency transfer was not allowed; the expectation was that the supervisor would simply 'get it done'. All the time. Every time. Regardless of who they put at risk, how much risk, or why. Because reputation and dollars and "work ethic" mattered more than safety or health. And that agency is far from unique. It drives away nearly 80% of its workforce every two years, and the pattern doesn't change regardless of who sits in the corner office. And that's the same everywhere.

And although I've been able to find clinically-decent systems pretty easily, I've found that they all have cores of dog poop when it comes to how crews are treated, how the culture is, and how/who is leading them and how they are empowered to help. And that matters. Cypress Creek is one of the more advanced providers in the US in our field, yet their entire culture is one of fear, intimidation and exploitation. They run 30% annual turnover simply because their culture doesn't permit change and their leadership prioritizes 'clinical care' and objective operational measures like cost and times and doesn't consider human factors.

@NomadicMedic , you brought up a point earlier in PMs about chronic dissatisfaction. And I think you're right; it is primarily my unrealistic expectations that have contributed to my nomadic ways and my failure so far to leverage my education and talents beyond where they could be. But I think that you miss an important point- that dissatisfaction is precisely _why we need to change things. _The way that things are done currently limits EMS to a fractional subset of people desperate, crazy or generous enough to work in current conditions and cultures, and as we're seeing, it's not really enough to even sustain the need for people, much less grow to meet population changes and current/future needs. Those aren't just financial problems, they're cultural problems. I'm 30 years old, making around $80k a year gross with overtime factored in (24/48@ 22.33/hour), with OK benefits...and I don't like my job, because it's not about the money. It's how we're treated. And that's frustrating. The existing systems do not have appropriate work-life balances, do not properly utilize their human capital, and do not produce cultures, climates or practices that ensure a high degree of safety, reliability, value or efficiency. That means that the systems need to change, and people like us are the ones to do it. I stick around this field, with my antenna up, because I think that there _are _opportunities out there to do exactly that, and that's what I really want to do with my fancy book learning and passion and talents. Help to build a better system, because I've grown up in and been working for and been harmed by bad systems for literally my entire life (minus the Army).

It's not even about the money. Enough to pay bills and live life is all that's really needed. It's about how we're treated by our management, by our coworkers, and maybe a little by the public (but almost all the first one). You could run an exceptional EMS service on a bit less than current budgets, with no capital changes, if you simply lead well.

And to re-rail the thread, I got off of my butt and sent in my California paramedic reciprocity packet, license verifications, and the DOJ background check, and some money, so I can have options. California Dreaming? Definitely. And I don't know if I'll ever use it. But CA is 40 million people and growing, it's nearly post-oil financially, and it's got an environment, culture and vibe that makes it a world-class place to live and visit, and the taxes actually aren't that bad compared to ours here in Texas. And those 40 million people have needs, we work in a short-staffed field that caters to those needs, and there's bound to be opportunities with those 40 million people. It would be a shame to miss something like that for want of a card. Yeah, this thread exposes some problems like AMR Riverside being not excellent. But y'all miss the point...you can at least try for better! Here, dissent is met with termination, and there's no point being dissatisfied, because everywhere is basically the same in every way that matters and the ones that are different are rare, far from home, can't afford you, etc. 

As far as SoCal EMS goes, IDK. I haven't lived there since 2007 and I was a kid. But 99% of this job is the exact same everywhere, and the more I look at deep Texas drug boxes or whatnot, the more I kind of wonder what difference most of it makes and is it really the end of the world if I have to ask a second opinion before I do something rare, potentially-dangerous and potentially unnecessary?


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## rescue1 (May 10, 2019)

I think you're biggest issue was also my biggest issue with EMS and why I left--being a paramedic is a profession with minimal self-governance. You're a poorly to moderately payed widget, completely interchangeable with any other paramedic at any time. Even being a supervisor is basically just serving as an extension of whatever management wants rather than a position where you can create real change. The issue is that unless you stick around at a specific job for a long long time and get promoted several times to a position where you may be able to change something, you'll never be in a spot to enact systems based change as a paramedic. 

I know some people who have gone back to school to get emergency management bachelors/masters degrees and now work on a systems level. One is now in the process of converting a volunteer ambulance system consisting of multiple independent departments into a paid county based EMS department and he's younger than you. Something like this can give you a lot more legitimacy in terms of finding jobs where you have the ability to create change at a larger systems level. 

Of course you may get lucky and find a great job where employees are valued and clinical skills are nurtured and all that, but those things can easily be taken away with new ownership/city government/new medical director/whatever. Having some sort of marketable "skill" like an EM degree and management experience can let you have a hand in the change itself, or escape more easily if the worst should happen.  

I agree with you that it's likely that the vast majority of differences between EMS protocols have no impact whatsoever on patient outcomes, and having some New Jersey EMS experience, calling base command for simple stuff is hardly a big hardship.


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## RocketMedic (May 10, 2019)

rescue1 said:


> I think you're biggest issue was also my biggest issue with EMS and why I left--being a paramedic is a profession with minimal self-governance. You're a poorly to moderately payed widget, completely interchangeable with any other paramedic at any time. Even being a supervisor is basically just serving as an extension of whatever management wants rather than a position where you can create real change. The issue is that unless you stick around at a specific job for a long long time and get promoted several times to a position where you may be able to change something, you'll never be in a spot to enact systems based change as a paramedic.
> 
> I know some people who have gone back to school to get emergency management bachelors/masters degrees and now work on a systems level. One is now in the process of converting a volunteer ambulance system consisting of multiple independent departments into a paid county based EMS department and he's younger than you. Something like this can give you a lot more legitimacy in terms of finding jobs where you have the ability to create change at a larger systems level.
> 
> ...



That’s what I’m really on the lookout for- a change to leapfrog the supervisor/manager pipeline by leveraging that education. I’ve had to pass on a few opportunities while I was finishing my MHA, but now I’m free to go for them.


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## Virgil (May 30, 2019)

Did my interview for AMR Riverside, they said there is no skills test involved, only what takes place during the FTO period after Orientation. I would've thought there would be one.


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## teufulhund (May 30, 2019)

Virgil said:


> Did my interview for AMR Riverside, they said there is no skills test involved, only what takes place during the FTO period after Orientation. I would've thought there would be one.


Ya I’ve heard all they do is a physical test. Basic stuff like lifting the stretcher and such.


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## Virgil (May 30, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Ya I’ve heard all they do is a physical test. Basic stuff like lifting the stretcher and such.


Yeah, they said EMT's go through a FTO period where they either get ALS or BLS rated? Something like that. But either way, I'm looking forward to (hopefully) getting a call back.


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## teufulhund (May 30, 2019)

Virgil said:


> Yeah, they said EMT's go through a FTO period where they either get ALS or BLS rated? Something like that. But either way, I'm looking forward to (hopefully) getting a call back.


Ya you have like 11 FTO shifts, some ALS some BLS. After all that if you’re good, and the need requires it, you’ll get placed ALS. Good luck man!!


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## CCCSD (May 30, 2019)

Just wanted to say that this thread is full of good info and personal views.


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## Virgil (May 31, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Ya you have like 11 FTO shifts, some ALS some BLS. After all that if you’re good, and the need requires it, you’ll get placed ALS. Good luck man!!


Thanks dude!


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## Virgil (Jun 10, 2019)

Just got the callback, I got the job!


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## teufulhund (Jun 12, 2019)

Virgil said:


> Just got the callback, I got the job!


Congrats dude! Do you know if you’re working North End or South End?


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## Virgil (Jun 12, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> Congrats dude! Do you know if you’re working North End or South End?


Not yet, I have orientation soon, and hopefully they'll key me in with what area I'll be working. 

Any differences between the two? Call volume, types of calls, etc?


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## teufulhund (Jun 12, 2019)

Virgil said:


> Not yet, I have orientation soon, and hopefully they'll key me in with what area I'll be working.
> 
> Any differences between the two? Call volume, types of calls, etc?


I can’t say myself as I don’t work for AMR Riverside, I’m sure someone will chime in with better info. But from what my friends say it’s pretty generalized throughout the whole county. I know the units in Riverside City get ran pretty hard but down towards the south average calls per shift is like 5. Sorry I can’t tell you more info haha.


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## Virgil (Jun 12, 2019)

teufulhund said:


> I can’t say myself as I don’t work for AMR Riverside, I’m sure someone will chime in with better info. But from what my friends say it’s pretty generalized throughout the whole county. I know the units in Riverside City get ran pretty hard but down towards the south average calls per shift is like 5. Sorry I can’t tell you more info haha.


No, of course, thank you for the info. 

Very excited, all I know is how LACo operates, so Riverside should be interesting.


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## teufulhund (Jun 13, 2019)

Hey guys. Don’t know if anyone is still following this. Didn’t want to start a new thread though.
I have a panel interview tomorrow, never had one before.  Anyone have any tips to ace the panel interview? Thanks!


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