# Gun At Nursing Home



## Sasha (Feb 7, 2011)

Last shift we picked up a patient from the nursing home who was a baker act. Why would a bedconfined man be a baker act? Because they found a gun in his room and he threatened to kill himself and others with it. His nephew brought it for him to commit suicide with.

Anyone ever run into something similar?

It was kind of funny though, a tech was walking us over to a different section of the ER (There are like four.) and asked "Is he still strapped?" 

My partner says yeah, he's still strapped! and tech goes "WHAT?! WHAT!?! WHAT THE HELL MAN!?" and I am just shaking with giggles.

My partner didn't know when someone is "strapped" it slang for having the gun, he thought he was just asking if he was strapped to the stretcher.

I only know because I recently read an autobiography of an LA crip member, and now consider myself the street slang expert


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## JPINFV (Feb 7, 2011)

Nursing homes can take my gun from my cold dead hands... When I end up in a SNF, I will organize weekly trips to the trap range and find some way to shoot from my wheel chair...


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## Akulahawk (Feb 7, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Nursing homes can take my gun from my cold dead hands... When I end up in a SNF, I will organize weekly trips to the trap range and find some way to shoot from my wheel chair...


Better take the .410 because the 12ga will shatter your shoulder by then...


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## Minnick27 (Feb 7, 2011)

There's a county owned nh in my area that actually has a shooting range the cops used to use. Then they built a fancy one so they closed that one down, but it was there for a good 50 years


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## usafmedic45 (Feb 7, 2011)

Akulahawk said:


> Better take the .410 because the 12ga will shatter your shoulder by then...


....or flip the wheelchair over.  Honestly, I'd like to see that.  LOL


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## lightsandsirens5 (Feb 7, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjUpR7qwNE[/YOUTUBE]


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## JJR512 (Feb 7, 2011)

What is a "baker act", is that like when a person gets out some flour, butter, sugar, and mixing bowls and bakes a cake all while dancing to some Michael Jackson hits from the 1980s?


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## JPINFV (Feb 7, 2011)

Florida Baker Act = California 5150 = Massachusettes Section 12 = Temporary Psych Hold.


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## JJR512 (Feb 7, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Florida Baker Act = California 5150 = Massachusettes Section 12 = Temporary Psych Hold.



Ah. I'm not familiar with the state-specific terms, but I suppose "temporary psychiatric hold" would have been pretty self-explanatory to anyone.

I believe in Maryland we call these patients "EPs", short for "Emergency Petitions". At least, I heard that term in the inter-facility transport realm a lot; not sure yet if it's used as extensively in the pre-hospital realm here in MD.


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## skills82 (Feb 7, 2011)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjUpR7qwNE[/YOUTUBE]



I wouldn't want to get on grandma's bad side. :unsure:


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 7, 2011)

Hell I've always been of the opinion that everyone should be given a gun when they turn 80. Think what a polite world it would be. "pull those damn pants up youngster" "make me grandpa" "BANG"


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## MrBrown (Feb 8, 2011)

Brown wants a .44 Magnum S&W N frame in Brown's walker ..... feeling lucky sonny?


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## 281mustang (Feb 8, 2011)

My grandfather pulled a .38 revolver on a Nurse when she came in his room during the night to "check on them" his first night there, the staff got pretty pissed and took it from him the next morning.

He joked about having a shotgun loaded with buckshot somewhere in his place after the incident. Not sure whether he was joking or serious to be honest, it's probably the latter :/


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## Hockey (Feb 8, 2011)

It wouldn't of happened if they had a No Guns Allowed sign!


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## Martyn (Feb 8, 2011)




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## firetender (Feb 8, 2011)

*Just askin'*

Did it occur to anyone reading this thread that there was a huge opportunity to learn from this human being? Or was it just enough that you appropriately restrained and transported, keeping your own butt intact?

Here was a person who was pretty clear on what he was in the midst of. He even went to the trouble of getting someone to smuggle a gun in to him. Who do you REALLY think he was going to pop? Aren't you curious?

I'd be interested to hear HOW the OP treated the patient; what was the real lesson to this call? How will it affect the way you deliver patient care in the future? Was it easy to just CYA and make a note that you might want to pack a gun yourself in the future for those unruly folk in the SNF's or did it add one more layer of understanding of compassion and how it affects the distressed?


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## HotelCo (Feb 8, 2011)

firetender said:


> Did it occur to anyone reading this thread that there was a huge opportunity to learn from this human being? Or was it just enough that you appropriately restrained and transported, keeping your own butt intact?
> 
> Here was a person who was pretty clear on what he was in the midst of. He even went to the trouble of getting someone to smuggle a gun in to him. Who do you REALLY think he was going to pop? Aren't you curious?
> 
> I'd be interested to hear HOW the OP treated the patient; what was the real lesson to this call? How will it affect the way you deliver patient care in the future? Was it easy to just CYA and make a note that you might want to pack a gun yourself in the future for those unruly folk in the SNF's or did it add one more layer of understanding of compassion and how it affects the distressed?



I'm compassionate until they threaten my safety. If you want to off yourself, its your life. Don't threaten to take mine, though.

.


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## firetender (Feb 8, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I'm compassionate until they threaten my safety. If you want to off yourself, its your life. Don't threaten to take mine, though.



...and that's where patient care ceases? He wasn't "strapped". There was no mention that the patient was actually threatening the OP. You've still got a patient, or has he now become your prisoner?


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## rforsythe (Feb 15, 2011)

firetender said:


> ...and that's where patient care ceases? He wasn't "strapped". There was no mention that the patient was actually threatening the OP. You've still got a patient, or has he now become your prisoner?



He had originally threatened "other people" and himself.  IMO that makes him at minimum still a suicide risk, possibly one of those types that will leap from the back of the rig at 60mph or do something else stupid.  Worst case he could injure or kill the EMT in the back in the process.  I'd have "strapped" him down too, not out of a lack of compassion, but from an overabundance of it.


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## firetender (Feb 15, 2011)

rforsythe said:


> He had originally threatened "other people" and himself.  IMO that makes him at minimum still a suicide risk, possibly one of those types that will leap from the back of the rig at 60mph or do something else stupid.  Worst case he could injure or kill the EMT in the back in the process.  I'd have "strapped" him down too, not out of a lack of compassion, but from an overabundance of it.



So it's clear, I would make sure the patient was secured/restrained. My thought was more on HOW you treated him as a human in distress. You can protect yourself and others (a prudent move in this case) and STILL assist the patient in attaining a better balance.


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## orange20medic (Apr 13, 2011)

We had a patient take a gun to a dialysis clinic simply to clean it while he was sitting on dialysis. That didn't go over too well.....


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## Sasha (Apr 13, 2011)

We transported him like any other baker act. Vitals, and a nice ride to the hospital. What else were we supposed to do?


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## JPINFV (Apr 13, 2011)

sara22emt said:


> We had a patient take a gun to a dialysis clinic simply to clean it while he was sitting on dialysis. That didn't go over too well.....



Have you ever smelled gun solvent? There's a reason why guns need to be cleaned in a well ventilated space.


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## mycrofft (Apr 14, 2011)

*Listen to Richard Pryor's "Fresh Aire" interview with Terry Gross.*

At the end she asks if he has a pistol, he says yeah, for self defense. Since he was by then very debilitated, she asked if it could do any good. He said yeah, he'd call ot for the badguys to wait for him to get it cocked.


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