# Sudden collapse 82 yo male



## spazoid86 (May 23, 2011)

You have been called for an elderly male patient who family state suddenly collapsed. On scene you find an 82 year old man lying on the garage floor. Assessment reveals him to be unresponsive and not breathing. 
I am assuming that you would first check for a pulse before you apply the AED, but i am still fairly new, and for some reason or another this slipped my mind.

Would you check for a pulse first, or apply the AED?


Thanks


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## BEorP (May 23, 2011)

Healthcare providers should check a pulse prior to using a defib.


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## spazoid86 (May 23, 2011)

Even prior to just applying it?


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## jgoodfernandez (May 23, 2011)

well in your case the collapse was unwitnessed so you would do 2 minutes of CPR (5 30:2 cycles) if pulseless then apply the AED and depending on what AED you have the rest is just instructions from the machine. If the patient had a pulse then you would give PPV per BVM 
Only if the collapse was witnessed by you then you could check pulse (ABC's always first) then apply the AED. 
These are the protocols for where I live but they could always vary!


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## Tommerag (May 23, 2011)

1) I have to ask are you trying to get use to do your homework tonight? This is the 3rd post with homework like questions tonight.

2) Remember the most basic things first ABC


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## mycrofft (May 23, 2011)

*I suppose you could just slap on the leads and let it take a look*

However, the following could occur:
1. Delay of care (can't be doing stuff while the machine is "analyzing rythmn").
2. AED pads are not cheap, and you may find yourself short a set after applying them unnecessarily.

Follow your protocols.


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## medichopeful (May 23, 2011)

spazoid86 said:


> You have been called for an elderly male patient who family state suddenly collapsed. On scene you find an 82 year old man lying on the garage floor. Assessment reveals him to be unresponsive and not breathing.
> I am assuming that you would first check for a pulse before you apply the AED, but i am still fairly new, and for some reason or another this slipped my mind.
> 
> Would you check for a pulse first, or apply the AED?
> ...



Remember, you can be apneic and still have a pulse (though you won't for long).

The reason you'd check for a pulse first is this: an AED can actually defib somebody who has a pulse (though it shouldn't).  An AED will shock 2 rhythms: V-Fib and V-Tach.  It is possible for a patient to have one of these rhythms, and still have a pulse.  But an AED can't necessarily figure that out.  It will see the electrical rhythm, and shock it, even with a pulse present.  The pulse check is to make sure this doesn't  happen.  Does this make sense?


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## spazoid86 (May 23, 2011)

I am actually already licensed. The HW is gone, the questions I posted were questions from an entry test I had to take with a company. I wanted to get the correct answers, since my instructor was an idiot and obviously didn't lead me in the right direction for some of them.

But you would start CPR like stated if it was unwitnessed?
Maybe its just because its 210am  I was thinking it was the other way around. CPR for witnessed and AED For unwitnessed.


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## medichopeful (May 23, 2011)

spazoid86 said:


> I am actually already licensed. The HW is gone, the questions I posted were questions from an entry test I had to take with a company. I wanted to get the correct answers, since my instructor was an idiot and obviously didn't lead me in the right direction for some of them.
> 
> But you would start CPR like stated if it was unwitnessed?
> Maybe its just because its 210am  I was thinking it was the other way around. CPR for witnessed and AED For unwitnessed.



If it's unwitnessed, you want to do CPR to "prime the pump."  In other words, you want to get the "stale" blood out and "new" blood into the body.  If it's witnessed, and the person has been down under 4 minutes, go to the AED.


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## mycrofft (May 23, 2011)

*You can have an electrical rythmn and no pulse,*

, or an unshockable rythmn. Both demand proper CPR.


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