# Florida Medics want ALS



## mikie (Oct 4, 2008)

More news about those Florida Medics...

"Florida Firefighters Protest, Want ALS Duties:"



> Carrying signs reading "Help Wanted, New Medical Director," more than 60 Collier County firefighters marched in front of the Naples Beach Hotel on Thursday afternoon protesting recent decisions and public positions taken by the county's medical director, Dr. Robert Tober.





> Tober says the firefighter-paramedics at the four fire districts currently providing advance life support services - North Naples, the city of Naples, East Naples, and Marco Island - do not provide the advanced medical services often enough to maintain their skills.



Wow.  I have never heard of an EMS protest.  Have you guys/gals?

The rest of the story, http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?id=61174&sectionId=46


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## JPINFV (Oct 4, 2008)

Maybe if they could have passed their medical directors test, they wouldn't have had their toys taken away. It's much better to let patients die due to lack of care than have some idiot kill them because he doesn't know what he's doing.


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## karaya (Oct 4, 2008)

I think this is a precursor of more to come.  Unions have been a large driving force to have pumpers become ALS equipped.  Some of the method to their madness is the thought that more runs will mean more bucks from the taxpayers.  I've seen first hand some horrible EMS on calls whereby patient care was initially given by a responding ALS pumper and clearly their lack of experience was evident.

This will be interesting to see how the Florida situation plays out.

Ray


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## KEVD18 (Oct 4, 2008)

its all about call volume. they are trying to justify sending the engine out on medicals. if they put medics on the engines, it makes sense to send the engine out on medicals. with the economy, citizens are getting wary to all sorts of pointless expenditures and joy riding jakes has popped up on the list.


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## mikie (Oct 4, 2008)

have you ever heard of a fire/ems protest?


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## VentMedic (Oct 4, 2008)

mikie333 said:


> have you ever heard of a fire/ems protest?


 
Yes, many times over the past 25 years.


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## mikie (Oct 4, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> Yes, many times over the past 25 years.



Well I'm still kinda new, thus not hearing of them in the last 25 years ^_^


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## VentMedic (Oct 4, 2008)

In Florida as well as several other states, there have been major changes, take-overs and consolidations of services. FD & Private EMS, FD and public EMS, FD & FD, City & County, etc, have all had their share of problems and disagreements to get to where they are and for some to where they probably shouldn't be.

The below counties are the 3 biggest in SE Florida:

*Miami-Dade:*

http://www.miamidade.gov/MDFR/

http://www.miamidade.gov/mdfr/emergency_stations.asp

Most of the city FDs with EMS rescue services merged but it was not easy for all to agree.
http://cbs4.com/local/Miami.dade.fire.2.808250.html


*Palm Beach County:*
http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/fire/

history:
http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/fire/history.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Beach_County_Fire-Rescue

stations and apparatus showcase:
http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/fire/stations.asp?view=text

*Broward County:*
http://www.sheriff.org/about_bso/dfres/

And then just to the north:

*Ocala:*
Florida County Forcing Most Paramedics To Fight Fires

http://www.emsresponder.com/web/onl...Forcing-Most-Paramedics-To-Fight-Fires/1$7199


Other states:

*Pittsburgh:*
*Fire, EMS Bureaus Are Likely to Face Big Changes in City*

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/news/pittsburgh_ems_faces_changes.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07156/791610-85.stm

*Washington DC*

http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/blogs/2008/04/major-change-in-structure-of-dc-fire.html


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## VentMedic (Oct 4, 2008)

I am cringing at the way so called "professionals" are behaving. 

The article mikie333 posted came from the local Naples newspaper. There are now 109 comments with FD and EMS members bashing each other but not on an EMS or Fire forum. This is in the local newspaper for all the public to see....again. 

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/oct/02/firefighters-protest-collier-medical-director-outs/

Read the comments at the end of the article and take note of how the different agendas have taken the spotlight. It is no longer about medicine. Dr. Tober attempted to show it was about the medicine. Others fail to even see the medical aspect of it. 

I can not even imagine this argument taking place in a hospital. If you could not pass a med test for ICU or the ED as an RRT or RN, you don't work there. You may not even get a chance to work anywhere until you can prove you are competent. An RN or RRT from a small medical ICU would not be expected to be up to speed and ready to work in a major trauma ICU. Usually it is the RN or RRT that is applying for a higher level of care position that will ask for a complete training orientation because they know what their knowledge and skills are or are not. I find it ridiculous that there are some wearing a Paramedic patch that have no clue about their responsibilities to medicine.


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## Flight-LP (Oct 4, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> I am cringing at the way so called "professionals" are behaving.
> 
> The article mikie333 posted came from the local Naples newspaper. There are now 109 comments with FD and EMS members bashing each other but not on an EMS or Fire forum. This is in the local newspaper for all the public to see....again.
> 
> ...




That's because the hospital is a professional medical environment. Take EMS away from the hose monkeys and this would not be an issue. Fire based EMS sucks, period. The motivation behind it is one of greed and self perseverence. The FD's do not want to lose that money in their budget for their new toys (i.e. the $500,000+ fire truck that sits more than it rolls). Most have zero interest in EMS other than the higher pay for a Paramedic certification. Let them play first responder, but take them away from ALS care and let the individuals who actually care about pre-hospital care treat them.

Unions are the core of the problem. Instead of seeing the actual problem, they do their best to protect the personal interests of their clients whether right or wrong. They remind me of public defenders; they are completely unscrupulous. This example, along with the union in Hackensack NJ that is blocking a promotion of better EMS just to protect the jobs of 8 EMT-B's, is a shining example of my our country has a complete inability to communicate effectively.

I find it funny that the airline industry has the same issues. Pilots b!tching about low pay, unqualified personnel acting as first officers, work rules, etc. It is so parallel to EMS, it is almost scary. Even the public is equally ignorant to the qualifications of pilots as they are to EMS. The irony in that industry is that the best airline to work for, with the best pay, work rules, retirement, and quality of life, is Emirate's Airlines out of the U.A.E. Unions are illegal there, yet they have the best work environment. So those who argue that a decent work environment cannot be adequately maintained without a union are completely wrong.

In my opinion, they also offer the best service. It comes at a premium, but it is worth that extra $$$ in my mind. Sound familiar????


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 5, 2008)

Well put. 

It has to do with *accountability*. For some reason so many want to remove the responsibility and  accountability of patient care. Where and how did any civil and public servants ever consider or would even considering challenging a licensed physician upon what is best while working under his/her license? 

Really consider it. How asinine and ridiculous this is? Why hasn't the State EMS Council and Board not stepped in? Why don't they re-explain the law? I realized the majority Paramedic programs in Florida were considered to be a joke, but this is just shameful and embarrassing to the whole profession. 

It appears Florida may need to consider a whole change in their system. 

If we are not careful we are opening a Pandora's box and beginning to go down a slippery slope. Allowing a lower level to mandate treatment and whom can perform procedures. Again as mentioned, it is obvious that Fire Service has no clue upon medicine and again, the public relation tool of the "hero syndrome" comes full force. Unfortunately, the public and even some of those in EMS are hoodwinked. Very few fire services make the distinction of ensuring EMS is separate and as high priortized as another division within the fire service. 

So many excuses and courses have been watered down because of their special interest. 
Review many states and cities of not wanting to follow National Standards and National Testing for the fear of their staff not being able to pass and perform the skills as required. Really, what does that say about their profession and ideologies? 

We need to carefully monitor the situation and hopefully the National EMS Physicians will support the physician and along with that cause endorsement of the medical community. Unfortunately, EMS and medics will receive a black eye out of the process. Another time to say thanks F.D. for screwing things up.

Here's an idea.. before considering or attempting to perform another's job, be sure you can meet or match those standards or... get out! Surely, there is still room for improvement in fire tactics. Buildings still burn down, and prevention is still needed.

R/r 911


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