# Medic To RN



## EMT B (Oct 21, 2012)

What are people's thoughts on the Medic to RN bridge program?


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## Anjel (Oct 21, 2012)

EMT B said:


> What are people's thoughts on the Medic to RN bridge program?



I am finding that around here, the programs give preference to LPNs. 

For example, the assessment class. LPNs get to use the beds, medics assess on the floor. 

And they only reserve 25% of the spots for medics. 

/rant. 

That was just one program I looked into. The bridge program doesn't really cut out that much. I think I am just going to a regular ADN program and transferring to a university for my BSN.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 21, 2012)

I am currently enrolled in excelsior online colleges medic to RN program.

It is a great program but I do warn you it is not easy. Everything is self study based.

I'm doing A&P 1/2 right now and I have 300 pages to go in a very in depth 1200 page text. It's not easy if you don't understand a concept you have to learn it for yourself there is no one to help explain it.


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## Anjel (Oct 21, 2012)

I give you credit for doing it. There is no way I could teach myself all of that.


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## EMT B (Oct 21, 2012)

Well if i personally decided to go down tht path, my mom is a CRNA (former ER nurse and EMT-CC) so im sure she could help me  but thanks for the heads up. id have to get my medic first anyway


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## Medic Tim (Oct 21, 2012)

If your end goal is to be a nurse why not go to nursing school. Why make it harder on yourself by doing medic just to get rn?


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## Anjel (Oct 21, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> If your end goal is to be a nurse why not go to nursing school. Why make it harder on yourself by doing medic just to get rn?



For me personally I want to do both. RN full time and medic part time.


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## EMT B (Oct 21, 2012)

Yeah pretty much what Anjel said


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 21, 2012)

Anjel1030 said:


> I give you credit for doing it. There is no way I could teach myself all of that.



I admit I am exceptionally nervous for my first exam. Its one exam worth 6 credits in A&P. Your grade is your ultimate grade for an entire A&P 1/2 course. 

Its only 120 questions long but they can ask anything they want...

Cost $415 to actually register for the exam. I paid the extra $75 for a pair of practice exams. I did one already, got a 60/100 so I would get a D atleast passing. Mind you I read 600 of 1200 pages when I took it. I hope I do great on the second one before I take the real test.



EMT B said:


> Well if i personally decided to go down tht path, my mom is a CRNA (former ER nurse and EMT-CC) so im sure she could help me  but thanks for the heads up. id have to get my medic first anyway



Thats awesome, I would love to be a CRNA. Currently my goal is to work up to CRNA or DNP and work as a firefighter or remain an RN, complete prereqs for med school and return to school at 39 when I can retire as a firefighter.

I just can't bring myself to give up a career in firefighting. As much as I would love to be a physician atleast nursing allows me a progressive route that I can do some medicine to be satisfied and still run into burning buildings.


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## Shishkabob (Oct 21, 2012)

Anjel1030 said:


> For example, the assessment class. LPNs get to use the beds, medics assess on the floor.



Honestly, that sounds like playing to each certifications strengths.  Most of my assessments don't take place on a bed anyhow :lol:


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## EMT B (Oct 21, 2012)

hi NY medic im just posting here cause i need one more post till ican reply to your pm  lol


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## flhtci01 (Oct 21, 2012)

Recent graduated with an ADN degree.  I have been a paramedic for over 5 years.  I did an on-line program through our local community college.  Most hospitals in our region are looking for BSN degrees.  Some are still hiring RN with the expectation they will be BSN within 6 years.  

The on-line program was highly competitive as they only accepted 10 students per year.  The paramedic background helped getting in.  A lot of the subject matter was review but there was also new material.  My background helped in IV starts, med administration and assessments.


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## EMT B (Oct 21, 2012)

did it help at all with intubation?


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## EMT2PAC (Oct 22, 2012)

I tutor a lot of pre-nursing students. If you are already a paramedic then I think you would have a major leg up on them.


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## Akulahawk (Oct 22, 2012)

If you're an EMT, I would HIGHLY recommend going to a traditional RN program, either an ADN or a BSN program, and then challenging the Paramedic license, if you want to end up with both licenses. I started out long ago not pursuing an RN license, so I went Paramedic first. While that is still giving me a leg up in assessing and whatnot, that advantage is starting to level out with my peers. 

I will, however, begin pursuing a BSN as soon as I pass the NCLEX-RN because it'll make me more competitive for jobs at some hospitals and because I have a 1st Bachelor's, the timeline to get the BSN will be quite short, just 2 semesters, once I begin the program.

So, look at your options, and figure out what you want to do. If you can afford it, you could do Paramedic while waiting to get into an RN program... but that's a judgment call.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

Akulahawk said:


> then challenging the Paramedic license, if you want to end up with both licenses



I am looking into the process now. From what I understand my state (Missouri) allows RNs to work on ambulances within their RN scope but does not allow RNs to challenge the exam for the title of Paramedic. It is all very complicated. 

I looked into Creighton but you need two years ICU for that. There is a 3 month bridge program in Kansas city but I dont live there and it is $4k. I called a local paramedic program and they do not offer any type of bridge and would not credit any classes. 

Illinois has PHRN so I may look into crossing the river for that.


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## Akulahawk (Oct 22, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> I am looking into the process now. From what I understand my state (Missouri) allows RNs to work on ambulances within their RN scope but does not allow RNs to challenge the exam for the title of Paramedic. It is all very complicated.
> 
> I looked into Creighton but you need two years ICU for that. There is a 3 month bridge program in Kansas city but I dont live there and it is $4k. I called a local paramedic program and they do not offer any type of bridge and would not credit any classes.
> 
> Illinois has PHRN so I may look into crossing the river for that.


You may need to look at whether or not your State will allow someone who has challenged and passed the NREMT-P to be licensed in your State as a Paramedic, or if they require all Paramedics be graduates of a Paramedic training program of some type. Good luck!


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## ExpatMedic0 (Oct 22, 2012)

Akulhawk,
I am just curious, Why did you choose to go to RN school instead of say... PA or athletic trainer or mid level provider? I just noticed you have a BS degree in health science related field already


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## flhtci01 (Oct 22, 2012)

schulz said:


> I am just curious, Why did you choose to go to RN school instead of say... PA or athletic trainer or mid level provider? I just noticed you have a BS degree in health science related field already



There were a couple of BS health science related in my class.  After getting the ADN, they were eligible to go for their MSN.



> did it help at all with intubation?



That's not in nursing scope of practice.


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## flhtci01 (Oct 22, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Illinois has PHRN so I may look into crossing the river for that.



You will need your RN plus ACLS and PALS then find a PHRN class.  After completing it, you can practice the EMS scope of practice.


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## usalsfyre (Oct 22, 2012)

flhtci01 said:


> That's not in nursing scope of practice.



Look hard. In most states it actually is, nurses just aren't credentialed to do so at a particular facility.


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## EMT B (Oct 22, 2012)

if thats not in the nursing scope of practice than who does the intubation of there is a Code Blue?


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## usalsfyre (Oct 22, 2012)

EMT B said:


> if thats not in the nursing scope of practice than who does the intubation of there is a Code Blue?



Generally the physician, followed by a RT.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

EMT B said:


> if thats not in the nursing scope of practice than who does the intubation of there is a Code Blue?



Doctor, PA, or RT. It actually is in many facilities policies that an ACLS RN can intubate, it is usually wirtten like "in emergent situations if no other higher qualified provider is present or available". In most hospitals this is not really a problem as there are abundance of people available, especially in a teaching hospital. But it some rural ER/ICUs RNs do intubate. Just during codes not RSI.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

flhtci01 said:


> You will need your RN plus ACLS and PALS then find a PHRN class.  After completing it, you can practice the EMS scope of practice.



This may end up being the best option. I would rather stay in MO but I live literally 5 mins from IL. It sounds like a smoother transition and the PHRN course I found has a lab with OR intubations.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

NYS does not permit an RN to challenge into paramedic.

It's honestly retarded we have nurses working as EMTs where I volunteer and its just silly.

Why make people do something all over again.

Even a doctor in NY can't operate as an ALS provider unless they do so under heir own license.

We have two anesthesiologists in my volly house and one gynecologist. All three can only function as an EMT. If they start an IV, it is now under their own medical license.


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## usalsfyre (Oct 22, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> NYS does not permit an RN to challenge into paramedic.



Absolutely how it should be. Until I can "challenge" the NCLEX with no additional education (fat flipping chance of that), nursing shouldn't be "challenging" the NREMT


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> Absolutely how it should be. Until I can "challenge" the NCLEX with no additional education (fat flipping chance of that), nursing shouldn't be "challenging" the NREMT



If paramedic education improved maybe one day they could....

I do not support challenging the NREMT, I think there should be a short bridge process which includes clinical rotations. But to play the devils advocate in order to to challenge the NREMT most states require EMT-B, ACLS, PALS and even TNCC. So not exactly no education. 

To humor me....

If I am a BSN RN with EMT-B, ACLS, PALS and TNCC what I am lacking that requires me to sit through a paramedic course?

As I have mentioned before if paramedics required a bachelors degree with similar prereqs as nursing along with a CNA class I would have no problem with them challenging the NCLEX


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> Absolutely how it should be. Until I can "challenge" the NCLEX with no additional education (fat flipping chance of that), nursing shouldn't be "challenging" the NREMT



If you meet all the college level requirements, you basically can.

Paramedic has no requirements outside of the medic program itself.

If being a medic REQUIRED a couple semesters of A&P, patho, microbiology then I bet we could challenge it out on the basis of being evenly educated. Unfortunately medic only requires about 600 pages of A&P and you can pass without reading half of it.


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## usalsfyre (Oct 22, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> If I am a BSN RN with EMT-B, ACLS, PALS and TNCC what I am lacking that requires me to sit through a paramedic course?



Nothing. The point is not qualifications, it's protecting an independent profession (granted profession its a stretch, but you get the idea).


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> Nothing. The point is not qualifications, it's protecting an independent profession (granted profession its a stretch, but you get the idea).



I can't argue with that, it's a valid concern, but it is a bit of a stretch. 

Luckily, RNs trying to bridge to paramedic are few and far between and are usually those whom wish to pursue EMS related nursing jobs or volunteer. So I don't see too much of a threat to the "profession"', at least no more than it is facing from within.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Oct 22, 2012)

I agree, you could turn it around say why should someone who is say NRP,CCEMT-P or FPC with a related undergraduate degree and the A&P series not be allowed to challenge RN? Half my medic class had a degree, we all had to take A&P as a separate course at the college and all Paramedics in Oregon are required to hold an AAS or higher(which if you compare the AAS degree's are identical in science, chemistry, biology and A&P requirements
)


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

schulz said:


> I agree, you could turn it around say why should someone who is say NRP,CCEMT-P or FPC with a related undergraduate degree and the A&P series not be allowed to challenge RN? Half my medic class had a degree, we all had to take A&P as a separate course at the college and all Paramedics in Oregon are required to hold an AAS or higher(which if you compare the AAS degree's are identical in science, chemistry, biology and A&P requirements
> )



Because you don't have specifcly laid out nursing classes.

Paramedic has no set college level curriculum for the actual title, nursing has national standards and requirements.

If paramedic broke down into a set of classes with a final licensure exam, it would be a different ball game. But as of now, one mega class isn't gonna fit in anywhere.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Oct 22, 2012)

Here is the the Paramedic AAS degree from the community college in Portland
http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/emt.pdf
 and here is the Nursing AAS degree from the community college in Portland
http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/nur.pdf

Edit: But then again this has been argued on here before countless times and if its time to start this discussion yet again, it probably needs a new thread of its own ;-)


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

schulz said:


> Here is the the Paramedic AAS degree from the community college in Portland
> http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/emt.pdf
> and here is the Nursing AAS degree from the community college in Portland
> http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/nur.pdf



Unless I am missing something the only shared requirement is A&P. I see no micro, Pharm, or patho for the medic program. Also a lot of the nursing prereqs (English and algebra) are part of the medic program. So for nursing you have more prereqs, more science, and more general education.

With prereqs included its 107 hs for medic vs 135 hrs for nursing


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

schulz said:


> Here is the the Paramedic AAS degree from the community college in Portland
> http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/emt.pdf
> and here is the Nursing AAS degree from the community college in Portland
> http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/nur.pdf
> ...



Only because you took the route of a college degree did you need those classes.

When it comes down to it, you and are sti considered a paramedic just the same.

EVERY nurse has the same standards of COLLEGE level education.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> Only because you took the route of a college degree did you need those classes.
> 
> When it comes down to it, you and are sti considered a paramedic just the same.
> 
> EVERY nurse has the same standards of COLLEGE level education.



Well Diploma nurses ...but they are pretty much extinct.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> Well Diploma nurses ...but they are pretty much extinct.



Sorry I should have said every BSN nurse.

The largest hospital system here on LI, which is comprised of a ton of hospitals, is no longer hiring ADNs.


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## usalsfyre (Oct 22, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> EVERY nurse has the same standards of COLLEGE level education.


There are nursing diploma mills as surely as there are medic mills. Granted the institutional standards may be a BIT higher, but there's still a air bit of bad education out there.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> Sorry I should have said every BSN nurse.
> 
> The largest hospital system here on LI, which is comprised of a ton of hospitals, is no longer hiring ADNs.



That is the way most major hospital systems around the country are going. You can still find a few stand alone hospitals that will accept ADNs. 

I had a few friends go the ADN route. One got a hospital job only because she was a tech there before starting school while the other spent 4 months searching for jobs without a single interview and is now at a LTC/SNF working on her BSN. 

I am 2 months away from graduating with my BSN and already have 3 job offers. I would say at least half of my class has an offer or is already hired.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> There are nursing diploma mills as surely as there are medic mills. Granted the institutional standards may be a BIT higher, but there's still a air bit of bad education out there.



Normally nursing diploma programs are through a hospital and graduates of the program are hired into the hospital on graduation. You do not see diploma nurses graduating and getting major hospital jobs. Most will go to nursing homes. The number of diploma programs has drastically reduced over the past few years, I guarantee much fewer than medic mills.  

The difference is that those medics who graduate through medic mills will hit the streets and function just like all the other medics out there. At least with nursing their job market is ridiculously limited.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Oct 22, 2012)

At most of international jobs I have worked the nurses seem to consider the paramedic a higher level of health care provider. Can you imagine that!? That would be unherd of in the USA but parts of the EU, and Australia seem to think that and if you look at there paramedic education its an undergraduate degree or multiple years of training/education. I am just thankful I get to bare the same title as them. Every other modern western country that has paramedics has a higher standard... I am hoping USA can catch up, then again I have not been back to the states for 3 years for a good reason ;-)


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## hogwiley (Oct 22, 2012)

The fact many hospitals are now apparently only hiring BSNs shows how overcrowded even nursing is getting.

I have no real opinion on whethers theres a big difference in quality between a BSN and ADN. The hospital I work at hires both, although they do seem to prefer BSNs. 

I have noticed the student nurses who are in the ADN program seem to perform a lot better at my hospital, but thats probably because they are required to have their CNA before being accepted and have to get their LPN after the first year, so they arent like a deer in the headlights during their early clinicals like some of the BSN program students.


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

hogwiley said:


> The fact many hospitals are now apparently only hiring BSNs shows how overcrowded even nursing is getting.
> 
> I have no real opinion on whethers theres a big difference in quality between a BSN and ADN. The hospital I work at hires both, although they do seem to prefer BSNs.
> 
> I have noticed the student nurses who are in the ADN program seem to perform a lot better at my hospital, but thats probably because they are required to have their CNA before being accepted and have to get their LPN after the first year, so they arent like a deer in the headlights during their early clinicals like some of the BSN program students.



It really depends on your area but I wouldn't say nursing is overcrowded. Many schools are moving towards BSNs so there are less and less ADN programs out there. Also teaching hospitals must have a certain percentage of BSNs to maintain magnet status and other benefits. 

Also you are not required to have your CNA before going to nursing school. At least not at any school around here. You are not an LPN after the first year. It is an entirely different program and licensing exam. You must graduate from an LPN and pass the NCLEX-PN. ADN and BSN are very close in clinical and science. A BSN adds a lot of management, research, philosophy, etc. so there should not be a huge difference in clinical performance. Diploma programs are pretty much 100% clinical and vocational training and usually perform better in the first 6 months.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

My current program


RN to ADN
https://my.excelsior.edu/c/document...84d-d138-4f59-8b31-df5be9b1f607&groupId=78666



ADN to BSN
https://my.excelsior.edu/c/document...d62-218f-46b0-8c15-83e23fc27e62&groupId=78666


121 credit minimum is substantially more than my 36 credit equivalent medic program. Obviously education cannot be considered one in the same by leaps and bounds.


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## Shishkabob (Oct 22, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> If paramedic education improved maybe one day they could....



If I can easily pass the NCLEX without any further schooling, why not?  How is that not the same as a nurse wanting to test out on the NREMT?  


It should be a 2-way street or not at all.


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## NYMedic828 (Oct 22, 2012)

Linuss said:


> If I can easily pass the NCLEX without any further schooling, why not?  How is that not the same as a nurse wanting to test out on the NREMT?
> 
> 
> It should be a 2-way street or not at all.



Because nurses already have 3-5 pure science prerequisites. They already have mathmetics, english, social sciences on top of 5-10 strictly nursing based classes which incorporate far more medical mumbo-jumbo than paramedic educational standards.

All i have as a paramedic is my one uber class that is still only equal to 1 year of college time. One year, versus 4 as a nurse. A nurse has 75% more baseline education, theoretically. 

Granted you may learn all of the things a nurse does on your own, but unless its accredited on paper it doesn't matter.


Why can't we paramedics just submit to a college level educational standard with 4 years of educational time? Hell even a 2 year standard is better than where we are now.

Imagine how much more proactive our protocols could be if medical directors actually trusted that everyone under their license was more than likely a competent and extensively educated individual. Maybe we could finally achieve more than being considered a taxi service to definitive care. Wouldn't it be nice if some day we could go to someone's residence, determine they are experiencing an upper respiratory infection and leave them with a script through the medical director for a Z-pack instead of wasting thousands of healthcare dollars for them to go to the hospital?


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## VFlutter (Oct 22, 2012)

Linuss said:


> If I can easily pass the NCLEX without any further schooling, why not?  How is that not the same as a nurse wanting to test out on the NREMT?
> 
> 
> It should be a 2-way street or not at all.



I will admit the NCLEX is not that hard but there are a lot of concepts that are specific to nursing that most paramedics would get wrong based on the way they think and analyze situations.

I agree it should be a 2-way street if paramedics had the same education standard as nursing. As I said before, I think RNs with EMT-B should be equal to associate medics with CNA as far as bride opportunitys go. 

But I strongly argue that anyone pursuing a RN title should have to take certain college level courses. 

I have posted my transcript on this forum before and I have yet to see any paramedic program to come close to the level of education I have gone through.


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## paccookie (Oct 29, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> Because you don't have specifcly laid out nursing classes.
> 
> Paramedic has no set college level curriculum for the actual title, nursing has national standards and requirements.
> 
> If paramedic broke down into a set of classes with a final licensure exam, it would be a different ball game. But as of now, one mega class isn't gonna fit in anywhere.





NYMedic828 said:


> Because you don't have specifcly laid out nursing classes.
> 
> Paramedic has no set college level curriculum for the actual title, nursing has national standards and requirements.
> 
> If paramedic broke down into a set of classes with a final licensure exam, it would be a different ball game. But as of now, one mega class isn't gonna fit in anywhere.



Actually, you are wrong about this.  It varies from school to school how the classes are broken down or structured, but the basic curriculum is standardized nationally.  Your school may have used "one mega class" but not all of them do that.  

This is the curriculum for the paramedic program I graduated from:  http://www.darton.edu/catalog/catalogs/2011-2012/files/125-183.pdf#page=45

And here is the curriculum for the ADN program at the same school:

Traditional program:
http://www.darton.edu/programs/nursing/pdfs/201205-Nursing.pdf

Bridge program:
http://www.darton.edu/programs/nursing/pdfs/201205-HealthcareBridge.pdf

While I realize that you have been comparing BSN programs to paramedic, that is really not comparable as paramedic is at best an associates degree.

If you look at the links I posted and compare the courses, there is not a significant difference.  Compare the core classes:

Paramedic:
*4 hours A&P
1-3 hours math*
6 hours English
3 hours US History
3 hours political science
3 hours psychology
3 hours public speaking
2 hours computer/technology
3 hours elective (humanities, social science, business or math/science)

Nurse:
*8 hours A&P
4 hours microbiology
0 hours math*
6 hour English
3 hours US History
3 hours political science
3 hours psychology
3 hours public speaking
2 hours computer/technology
1-2 hours physical education

So the real difference in the core curriculum is more A&P and microbiology is needed for the medic and math is needed for the nurse.

Comparing the classes for each program, the medic takes 46 hours of EMS classes, broken into specific classes (not one mega class).  The nurse takes 40 hours of nursing classes, also broken into specific classes.


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## paccookie (Oct 29, 2012)

ChaseZ33 said:


> I will admit the NCLEX is not that hard but there are a lot of concepts that are specific to nursing that most paramedics would get wrong based on the way they think and analyze situations.
> 
> I agree it should be a 2-way street if paramedics had the same education standard as nursing. As I said before, I think RNs with EMT-B should be equal to associate medics with CNA as far as bride opportunitys go.
> 
> ...



I will agree with you that nursing requires a different way of thinking.  Learning nursing diagnoses has been the most difficult aspect of nursing school for me thus far.  

I will also agree that anyone pursuing an RN title should have to take certain college level courses.  That said, the ADN nurse is no less competent clinically than the BSN nurse.  Having taken more biology or chemistry or English is not going to make you a better clinician.  You might have more insight to biological processes or medications, but at the core you're still a nurse.  I will also add that anyone pursuing a paramedic title should have to take certain college level courses as well.  I think that the A&P and microbiology courses standard for nursing should also be standard for paramedics.  Certain math courses should be standard for both.

Your own personal transcript has nothing to do with any paramedic or nursing program.  No paramedic or nursing program comes close to equaling the education I have gone through either, primarily because I have taken a wide variety of course while figuring out what I wanted to do.

I also don't think that a nurse with EMT-B cert or a paramedic with a CNA cert is qualified to test at the other's level.


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## VFlutter (Oct 29, 2012)

paccookie said:


> I will also agree that anyone pursuing an RN title should have to take certain college level courses.  That said, the ADN nurse is no less competent clinically than the BSN nurse.  Having taken more biology or chemistry or English is not going to make you a better clinician.  You might have more insight to biological processes or medications, but at the core you're still a nurse.  I will also add that anyone pursuing a paramedic title should have to take certain college level courses as well.  I think that the A&P and microbiology courses standard for nursing should also be standard for paramedics.  Certain math courses should be standard for both.
> 
> Your own personal transcript has nothing to do with any paramedic or nursing program.  No paramedic or nursing program comes close to equaling the education I have gone through either, primarily because I have taken a wide variety of course while figuring out what I wanted to do.
> 
> I also don't think that a nurse with EMT-B cert or a paramedic with a CNA cert is qualified to test at the other's level.



I do not think anyone is trying to argue that a BSN is clinically superior to an ADN. The extra classes of a BSN are theory and management based not clinical. ADN and BSN programs require the same amount of basic science. And I argue that taking more biology or chemistry does make you a better practitioner. There is a difference between being able to tell your patient their medication is for high blood pressure and actually understanding how their medication works and educating patients on a higher level. 

Actually my transcript has everything to do with other programs. I was a nursing major from the beginning and followed a very specific path. Every course I took was specifically taken to meet the prerequisites of nursing school, there were not extra classes that I did not need (Except an extra psych class I took to get a minor). Prereqs for AACN accredited BSN schools are standardized so every BSN that is accredited by the ACCN should have the same requirements, more or less. The point of me pointing out my transcript was to show a standard example of the classes required for a BSN and to compare those to the classes required for paramedics or ADN.


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## Summit (Nov 8, 2012)

*It is far easier for a generalist to specialize than for a specialist to generalize.*

There are few Medic to RN programs that actually save the student any real time or real money. Most are one or more of the following: give only a fraction of a semester in saved credit, involve exorbitantly expense, or are "shady."

*The reason is that, overall, paramedics are specialist technicians in emergency care.

Nurses are educated in general nursing care with general education and exposure to a spectrum of specialties. They then specialize through practice and further education. *That is why there are more avenues for RNs to quickly cross to EMS: RNs have the general foundation more readily expanded upon. However, few RNs cross to paramedicine. Most RNs that do are already in the critical care transport field or headed there with extensive critical care and emergency nursing specialty experience and education. 

RN is not a "shortcut" into paramedicine. One could do the quickie EMT and Paramedic courses in less time than it takes to do nursing prereqs. Many people interested in Medic-to-RN bridge programs want to use EMS as a shortcut into nursing. 

Not all... there are many seasoned medics who want a change in their career. Schools like Excelsior serve these people, but there is a price. There is a subset of experienced provider students can gain much from Excelsior. They often have HUGE HURDLES beyond simply being able to do all their studying on their own. Excelsior is 100% online except for a 3-day simlab exam (that nearly half fail on their first attempt. *The biggest problem with Excelsior is that the program has NO CLINICAL COMPONENT.* As a result, about 20 states put one of the following limitations on Excelsior graduates:

1. Must practice as an RN in another state for 6 months to 2 years (depending on the state) before applying for RN licensure.
2. Must arrange 100-1000 hours of preceptorships. Excelsior doesn't arrange the clinical; this job falls to the student.
3. May NEVER be licensed as an RN. Period.

For example: Colorado requires the student find their own preceptor for 700 hours (virtually impossible). California essentially bans Excelsior grads from being CA nurses. Excelsior grads who do get licensed may find it harder than other new grad nurses to get a job because they have an AAS degree from an 100% online nursing school and no clinical. Some can leverage their connections from their previous career into a job and find great success.



ChaseZ33 said:


> I looked into Creighton but you need two years ICU for that. There is a 3 month bridge program in Kansas city but I dont live there and it is $4k. I called a local paramedic program and they do not offer any type of bridge and would not credit any classes.



What is the KC program?


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## VFlutter (Nov 8, 2012)

paccookie said:


> What is the KC program?



UMKC (University of Missouri - Kansas city) has a RN-Medic bridge program


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## ExpatMedic0 (Nov 8, 2012)

Just an interesting side note. I use to do some volunteer work as a medic for bicycle rides with a friend I met who was an RN. She explained to me that she went through an accelerated RN program which only took 1 year to complete. This program was for people who already held an undergraduate degree or above.


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## Summit (Nov 8, 2012)

schulz said:


> She explained to me that she went through an accelerated RN program which only took 1 year to complete. This program was for people who already held an undergraduate degree or above.



Indeed there are accelerated BSN programs that range from 12-18 months. Understand that these programs are 5-7 days a week and there may only be 1-2 breaks in the whole program. The program was created to "ease the nursing shortage" based on the idea that those who have demonstrated their ability to complete undergraduate or graduate degrees may be able to handle a more intense undergraduate nursing program. Nevertheless, statistically, accelerated BSN graduates have a more difficult time finding their first job versus a traditional BSN program (18-24 months). I am unaware of any statistics regarding performance differences.



ChaseZ33 said:


> I do not think anyone is trying to argue that a BSN is clinically superior to an ADN.



There is a range to all things. There are some ADN programs that are better than some BSN programs. On the average, and over the long term, employers are choosing BSN RNs because 1. they can at little additional cost 2. studies show improved outcomes with higher proportions of BSN nurses 3. certifications and the like.

In many areas, there is probably little difference, at least at first. In some areas, there seems to be an ADN advantage at first. In many areas, there seems to be a BSN advantage after 6-12 months. I personally think, that the individual provider makes makes more of a difference than the difference between programs... at least most of the time:

In my stste, as in many states, there is an overabundance of RNs, particularly new RNs. This matches a huge increase in number and size of RN programs. It is to the point where several schools cannot get hospital placements for their clinical rotations. Thus, many ASN (ADN) programs and for-profits are rotating their students in non-acute care settings for many rotations. For this reason, hospitals are requiring clinical rotation details on new grad resumes in addition to either requiring a BSN for new graduates or strongly preferring a BSN degree. 



ChaseZ33 said:


> The extra classes of a BSN are theory and management based not clinical.



Depends on the program... yes there are some leadership and management based classes, but some of the theory classes are extremely important when it is education depth relating to clinical judgement or whether it is an (extremely applicable) ethics class.

However, there are additional clinical rotations such as public health that broaden the scope of knowledge and experience. My community health placement was home based primary care which was actually quite enlightening and definitely involved EMS at points.  My program also offered a summer externship course with classroom topics and an additional 400 hours of rotation in an ICU. I was also able to take an Emergency Nursing elective course with rotations in a Level 1 ED. 

So, in my state, you see non-profit BSN programs with 900-1400 clinical hours versus most of the ASN and for-profit programs with the state minimum of 750. Then consider whether that clinical time is in a hospital setting etc. It is easy to see why in some markets BSN graduates are more competitive vs other new graduate RNs for their first job.



> ADN and BSN programs require the same amount of basic science. And I argue that taking more biology or chemistry does make you a better practitioner. There is a difference between being able to tell your patient their medication is for high blood pressure and actually understanding how their medication works and educating patients on a higher level.



I agree, and more, it can help you get the big picture on your patients, determine what is going on inside, and let you intelligently choose and prioritize interventions.


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