# K.E.D. question



## rowdybear (Aug 4, 2011)

when testing for nremt practicals if the pt is sitting with his back touching the back of the chair whats the proper way to move him forward? i know my partner should control c-spine and we should execute on headmans count but what the heck am i suppose to do? we never practiced with them sitting all the way back


----------



## medicdan (Aug 4, 2011)

Real world, you wouldn't use the KED... testing world, you would coach your patient... 

I have seen it done successfully, though. If you really needed to, put one tech on each side of the patient and one holding c-spine, you can slide the patient's legs forward 1 inch at a time, holding on at the patient's waist and thigh, keeping the spine in line...


----------



## nwhitney (Aug 4, 2011)

rowdybear said:


> when testing for nremt practicals if the pt is sitting with his back touching the back of the chair whats the proper way to move him forward? i know my partner should control c-spine and we should execute on headmans count but what the heck am i suppose to do? we never practiced with them sitting all the way back



We were taught this.  While maintaining c-spine and on heads count have a hand supporting the pt's head around the jaw area (carefully) and your forearm down their sternum.  (This is a similar technique used in water rescues with a suspected spinal injury) Again on heads count lean the pt forward and use your free hand to slide the KED into place and then on heads count lean the pt back again.  Hopefully that makes sense.

One thing you could try and it worked for me during my state test is before the test begins ask the evaluator if the pt could sit as far forward as possible in the chair and to sit up straight the entire time.  The evaluator may or may not allow this but I think it's worth a try.  Check with your instructor as well about this.


----------



## depri (Aug 4, 2011)

nwhitney said:


> We were taught this.  While maintaining c-spine and on heads count have a hand supporting the pt's head around the jaw area (carefully) and your forearm down their sternum.  (This is a similar technique used in water rescues with a suspected spinal injury) Again on heads count lean the pt forward and use your free hand to slide the KED into place and then on heads count lean the pt back again.  Hopefully that makes sense.



This sounds about like what we were taught in my class. We drilled with the person holding c-spine to lean the pt forward w/ just enough space for another person to slide the KED behind the pt (although we never did drill to lean them back against the seat, which I'm guessing doesn't make much difference either way; somebody correct me if I'm wrong). Then go through the usual procedure of applying the KED and extrication.


----------



## rowdybear (Aug 6, 2011)

*thanks for the help,*

i took the nat reg praticals today passed, i didnt draw k.e.d. i got supine longspine, but i woulda nailed it with yall help


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Aug 6, 2011)

nwhitney said:


> We were taught this.  While maintaining c-spine and on heads count have a hand supporting the pt's head around the jaw area (carefully) and your forearm down their sternum.  (This is a similar technique used in water rescues with a suspected spinal injury) Again on heads count lean the pt forward and use your free hand to slide the KED into place and then on heads count lean the pt back again.  Hopefully that makes sense.
> 
> One thing you could try and it worked for me during my state test is before the test begins ask the evaluator if the pt could sit as far forward as possible in the chair and to sit up straight the entire time.  The evaluator may or may not allow this but I think it's worth a try.  Check with your instructor as well about this.



This is kind of what we were taught. Except there was really no headmans count. 1 EMT/medic would be getting the KED ready and slide it behind the patient as the 2 EMT/medic is holding C-spine with their forearm on the sternum.


----------



## EMT-23 (Aug 6, 2011)

while taking c-spine, coach them to move forward slowly and then put your forearms down there spine so they can relax on them.


----------

