# Police chase in Dallas



## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Watching a police chase going on in Dallas right now... apparently for over 40 minutes.


Dallas city proper has a no pursuit policy, so Dallas county Sheriff is chasing him.



/me waits for the idiot to crash.




It's on Fox News Channel right now.


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## medichopeful (Jun 29, 2009)

I hope nobody gets injured or, worse, killed.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

HA


An officer was in the HOV lane, and the suspect came up on traffic.  The offer threw spikestrips over and the car ran into a semi-trailer.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

He just got hit on the drivers side in an intersection.



Looks like 3 feet of intrusion.  Cops rushed in, looked, and walked away... doesn't look good for the suspect


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

And you're happy about it?


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> And you're happy about it?



Considering the civilian is apparently uninjured, and the suspect is stopped without any loss of life?  Yup.


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Considering the civilian is apparently uninjured, and the suspect is stopped without any loss of life?  Yup.



From your post it doesn't sound like it's a loss of life, it sounded as if the suspect was dead.


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## HotelCo (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/d...es/wfaa090629_wz_constablechase.1bc95a22.html

From the video, it looks like everyone, including the suspect was (hopefully still is) alive.


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> /me waits for the idiot to crash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which one the suspect or LEO?


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## Hockey (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> And you're happy about it?




No

Because idiot is still living


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

Posts like these make me fear for some people's patients.


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## Hockey (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Posts like these make me fear for some people's patients.





Posts like yours makes me realize why you..


Nevermind


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## medichopeful (Jun 29, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Which one the suspect or LEO?



I really hope I am reading this the wrong way...


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 29, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> I really hope I am reading this the wrong way...



No, I have seen and worked my fair sure of high speed chases. Risking all, including life and property. Sure keep an eye and monitor, sometime, somewhere they will have to stop. Kinda like a single barricaded person in a home, they will have to leave sometime. 

R/r 911


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes Sasha, I'm a horrible guy.  If someone puts hundreds of lives in danger just to avoid being arrested, and shows absolutly no care for others on the road,* as long as an innocent person doesn't suffer,* I don't give a darn what happens to the suspect. 

All he is now is a drain on healthcare, and should his self survive, be a drain on corrections.


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> If someone puts hundreds of lives in danger just to avoid being arrested, and shows absolutly no care for others on the road,* as long as an innocent person doesn't suffer,* I don't give a darn what happens to the suspect.



Takes more than one for a high speed chase.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

You honestly can't be comparing a felon who flees police to avoid arrest and doesn't care who he puts in danger, to the officers that try to stop him to protect tge greater public?


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jun 29, 2009)

I agree, for once, with Linuss in the fact that I do not care what happens to criminals who endager lives... if they die tryin to evade police (a suicide IMHO) then I mourn their desionsm but consider it all a thinning of the herd, natural selection in action!

However, they are often not the only victims of pursuits.  Consider... we all know how dangerous code 3 driving is in EMS and Fire.  Now imagine that your target (the scene) is always just a few hundread feet away and dictating teh speed of teh code 3 driving.  Chases like this one often spell disaster for the criminals, the LEOs, and innocent bystanders.  The policy that many agencies are adopting of calling the chase off becasue it ain;t worth it is based in mpart to this logic, and partly due to public opinion that is often negative against the LEOs.  It is not there fault that the criminals commit crimes, yet they bear the brunt of the outcry when a chase goes wrong.  Hence, yes the policy of no chases seems, in genreal, a good policy...

Recently in my area:  http://www.uniondemocrat.com/2009061597004/News/Local-News/Sonora-police-officer-Aitken-recovering

I don't know him personally, but I am told by many that do that he is a great guy that has made a very positive influence in our community.  But due to his pursuit of this scumbag drunk he slammed his Black and White into a tree at a high rate of speed.  Thankfully, he is alive and will recover (mostly), a fact that was in dispute for several dasys post crash.  As a result of his crash he sustained a "Broken left upper tibula and fibula, Shattered left patella and torn ligaments and tendons, Double displacement of the femur, broken at mid-thigh, Broken left ulna and radius, Shattered left elbow and torn ligaments and tendons, Torn tricep muscle, A broken fifth vertebrae in the neck, three broken right ribs, and a brain Bleed" (direct quote).  He will almost certainly never be the same.  We can all say that he is a hero for giving his all in the protection of the community... but in hindsight, maybe it would have been better to call the chase sooner and still have him on the streets...

GET WELL SOON OFFICER AITKEN!!!


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> You honestly can't be comparing a felon who flees police to avoid arrest and doesn't care who he puts in danger, to the officers that try to stop him to protect tge greater public?



Sometimes protecting the greater public means to let them go. They are the ones who chose to pursue and by doing so put other people's lives in danger as well.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Dallas pd has a no pursuit policy.  Looked down on by many agencies around here.  And as far as I know, are the only city in north Texas to have such a policy.  

If you attempt to pull someone overand they flee, you don't kno why they are fleeing. They could have just committed murder. They can be headed to do a murder or robbery. They can be osoma bin laden fir all we know.  

You simply do not take the chance tgat they were simply trying to get out of a speeding ticket. 

If they commit a felony and run from the police, there is no limit to what other crimes they will commit.


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## terrible one (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Sometimes protecting the greater public means to let them go. They are the ones who chose to pursue and by doing so put other people's lives in danger as well.



by letting them go the suspects are able to commit more crimes. how is that protecting the public? 
if someone robs/assualts/kills a family member of yours and the police see the suspect and he runs you are OK with them not chasing them?


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

If it's a routine traffic stop and they put the public at risk by chasing them..how does that even make sense?

If you or family got hit and killed by someone who was fleeing police because they didn't want to be caught on a suspended license, don't you think that's a little pointless??

There wouldn't have been a highspeed chase if no one was following the suspect.


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## medichopeful (Jun 29, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> No, I have seen and worked my fair sure of high speed chases. Risking all, including life and property. Sure keep an eye and monitor, sometime, somewhere they will have to stop. Kinda like a single barricaded person in a home, they will have to leave sometime.
> 
> R/r 911



Fair enough.  But consider the fact that the officers didn't know where the suspect was going, or what he was doing.  He could of been going to murder somebody, or something else.  Far fetched?  Yes.  But in the world of LE, anything can happen.

High speed chases are dangerous.  I will completely admit that.  But calling the officers "idiots" just seems a little harsh.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> If it's a routine traffic stop and they put the public at risk by chasing them..how does that even make sense?
> 
> If you or family got hit and killed by someone who was fleeing police because they didn't want to be caught on a suspended license, don't you think that's a little pointless??
> 
> There wouldn't have been a highspeed chase if no one was following the suspect.



So cops are to read minds now?

Majority of the time someone flees it's because of something other then trying to get out of a speeding ticket.  A cop doesn't know why the car in front of him is fleeing, only that they are committing a felony in doing so.


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## medichopeful (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> If it's a routine traffic stop and they put the public at risk by chasing them..how does that even make sense?
> 
> If you or family got hit and killed by someone who was fleeing police because they didn't want to be caught on a suspended license, don't you think that's a little pointless??
> 
> There wouldn't have been a highspeed chase if no one was following the suspect.



Yes, they put the public at risk by giving chase.  But they also put the public at risk by letting the person go.

You are correct, it would be pointless for somebody to die over a suspended license.  But the problem is, sometimes the police don't know what other crimes have or will be committed.  The police need to keep everybody safe the best they can.  Sometimes, innocent lives will be put at risk.

The police cannot just give up on trying to arrest subjects because people might get hurt.


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> So cops are to read minds now?
> 
> Majority of the time someone flees it's because of something other then trying to get out of a speeding ticket.  A cop doesn't know why the car in front of him is fleeing, only that they are committing a felony in doing so.



And they have a choice to chase or not to chase.


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## medichopeful (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> A cop doesn't know why the car in front of him is fleeing, only that they are committing a felony in doing so.



Very good point.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 29, 2009)

This is NOT the forum to discuss LE policy and procedures.


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## terrible one (Jun 29, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> But the problem is, sometimes the police don't know what other crimes have or will be committed.
> 
> The police cannot just give up on trying to arrest subjects because people might get hurt.





Linuss said:


> Majority of the time someone flees it's because of something other then trying to get out of a speeding ticket.




exactly. Most people (again most, not all) don't just run because of a traffic violation.


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## medichopeful (Jun 29, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> This is NOT the forum to discuss LE policy and procedures.



I respectfully ask that you allow us to continue this discussion.  As long as we remain civil, it should be interesting and possibly beneficial.  Of course, the final decision is yours, but please just take this into consideration.


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## FTRPO (Jun 29, 2009)

I can see your side of not pursuing sasha and to anyone else that has read and agreed. Like Linuss and others have said though, you have no idea what this guy just did, your absolutely correct he could be running because he has a suspended license. You could also be so totally wrong. He could of just killed his children and on his way to his wifes work to kill her and everyone else inside. Not pursuing someone after attempting to pull them over is like telling a kid he cant have something and then when they say yes I can you give it to them. I would totally agree that this pursuit got out of hand as the officers gave chase for over an hour and a half. As soon as you stop chasing people there will be no reason for anyone to ever stop. Just run they wont chase you????


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## Hockey (Jun 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> And they have a choice to chase or not to chase.



Sasha, I say this in the most respectful way, but you obviously have no knowledge about law enforcement and their policies therefore you are making assumptions.

You don't know the full story.  Only those who were actually there.  This guy could have had several warrants.  

And yes, it takes two to "chase".

However, I've seen it time and time again, you call the chase, 5 miles down the road, the driver is STILL going to be speeding away and driving recklessly and they wreck.

So do you believe the cops should sit there with their hands up their butt when somebody decides to flee from the police?  Thats what you are making it sound.



medichopeful said:


> I respectfully ask that you allow us to continue this discussion.  As long as we remain civil, it should be interesting and possibly beneficial.  Of course, the final decision is yours, but please just take this into consideration.




+1


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## Sasha (Jun 29, 2009)

FTRPO said:


> I can see your side of not pursuing sasha and to anyone else that has read and agreed. Like Linuss and others have said though, you have no idea what this guy just did, your absolutely correct he could be running because he has a suspended license. You could also be so totally wrong. He could of just killed his children and on his way to his wifes work to kill her and everyone else inside. Not pursuing someone after attempting to pull them over is like telling a kid he cant have something and then when they say yes I can you give it to them. I would totally agree that this pursuit got out of hand as the officers gave chase for over an hour and a half. As soon as you stop chasing people there will be no reason for anyone to ever stop. Just run they wont chase you????



You are going to know he's off to kill someone by pulling him over??? What if he had stopped, taken his ticket, and left to his wife's work and killed them?


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Except this guy was being pulled over for a warrant, not a simple traffic violation.









Here's the guy.  Listed as critical condition right now.






PS-- they interviewed the guy that was in the pickup who hit the car-- and "wow" is all I have to say.



> "They should not have chased him for two hours, risking everybody’s lives like they did,” Anderson said. "*I mean, it is so simple for them to squeeze him into a controlled situation, put him somewhere else, than it is to let him run wild out here. I mean, no police officer in front warning people[and letting people know what’s going on.* I didn’t even hear sirens. The only time I heard sirens was after I hit him.”



Obviously, he should be a police chief, since he knows oh so much about how chases work.  Sadly, I see a hefty settlement going this guys way.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 29, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> I respectfully ask that you allow us to continue this discussion.  As long as we remain civil, it should be interesting and possibly beneficial.  Of course, the final decision is yours, but please just take this into consideration.



No.

There are a plethera of forums out there where you can discuss LE policies and procedures to your hearts content...this is not one of them.  I will not tolerate an LE bashing or LE flag waving here.  If you want to do that, take it elsewhere.  

And there is no way you can convince me that this discussion can any way benefit EMS.


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## Hockey (Jun 29, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> No.
> 
> There are a plethera of forums out there where you can discuss LE policies and procedures to your hearts content...this is not one of them.  I will not tolerate an LE bashing or LE flag waving here.  If you want to do that, take it elsewhere.
> 
> And there is no way you can convince me that this discussion can any way benefit EMS.




So 100% of every discussion here has to be about EMS?


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 29, 2009)

No, but this is not the forum to bash on LE or wave their flag.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 29, 2009)

Aside from Rids comment on the possibility of cops being an idiot, there is no such bashing or flag waving going on.

Just a discussion of a suspect putting peoples lives at risk, and the chase/no chase policies some places have.


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## FTRPO (Jun 29, 2009)

A good police officer may suspect something by someones demeanor who has just murdered and plans to do it again. But the point is he didnt stop so who knows what he was going to do. Why run? Because you have just done something good or plan to do something good in the future? Not convincing me.


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## HotelCo (Jun 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Yes Sasha, I'm a horrible guy.  If someone puts hundreds of lives in danger just to avoid being arrested, and shows absolutly no care for others on the road,* as long as an innocent person doesn't suffer,* I don't give a darn what happens to the suspect.
> 
> All he is now is a drain on healthcare, and should his self survive, be a drain on corrections.





Linuss said:


> Dallas pd has a no pursuit policy.  Looked down on by many agencies around here.  And as far as I know, are the only city in north Texas to have such a policy.
> 
> If you attempt to pull someone overand they flee, you don't kno why they are fleeing. They could have just committed murder. They can be headed to do a murder or robbery. They can be osoma bin laden fir all we know.
> 
> ...



So, wouldn't chasing them put lives in danger? Not just the suspect's and the LEO's lives, but hundreds of innocent civilian's lives as well. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of High-Speed pursuits, too much chance that an innocent person could be injured. There are other alternatives that could be used. Alright, I'm done with this thread.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 30, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> There are other alternatives that could be used. Alright, I'm done with this thread.




Uh-uh, not backing out quite yet, buddy ^_^

What are these alternatives?  Do they offer anywhere near the same chance as capture as a pursuit?


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## Sasha (Jun 30, 2009)

FTRPO said:


> A good police officer may suspect something by someones demeanor who has just murdered and plans to do it again. But the point is he didnt stop so who knows what he was going to do. Why run? Because you have just done something good or plan to do something good in the future? Not convincing me.



What if they didn't run? What if they were a sociopath with no indication given as to something being wrong?


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## Shishkabob (Jun 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> What if they didn't run? What if they were a sociopath with no indication given as to something being wrong?



Then what does that have to do with a pursuit / no pursuit policy?


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## Hockey (Jun 30, 2009)

It was a drug runner that tried to run


Good for him


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## medic417 (Jun 30, 2009)

Hockey said:


> It was a drug runner that tried to run
> 
> 
> Good for him



Good that a drug runner ran?


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## Hockey (Jun 30, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Good that a drug runner ran?




Nope, good that he got what was coming to him.  Feel bad for the other guy though



Drug runners dealers are my personal pet peeve.  No different then a child molester


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## HotelCo (Jun 30, 2009)

Hockey said:


> Nope, good that he got what was coming to him.  Feel bad for the other guy though
> 
> 
> 
> Drug runners dealers are my personal pet peeve.  No different then a child molester



There is a HUGE difference between drug dealing and child molestation.


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## fortsmithman (Jun 30, 2009)

HotelCo said:


> There is a HUGE difference between drug dealing and child molestation.



Lets see drug dealers ruin lives and don't care about their users.
Child molesters ruin lives and don't care about their victims.

That sounds pretty much the same to me.  In jail though child molesters are either raped by other inmates then killed or made another inmates wife.  Drug dealers will most likely still deal but in jail.


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## Sasha (Jun 30, 2009)

> Lets see drug dealers ruin lives and don't care about their users. Child molesters ruin lives and don't care about their victims.



Drug dealer's "victims" are willing participant where as a child molestor's victims are not.

Also let's not paint all "child molestors" with the same brush. Some recieved that conviction for sleeping with their 15 year old girlfriend after they turned 18.


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## fortsmithman (Jun 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Drug dealer's "victims" are willing participant where as a child molestor's victims are not.



I know but both drug dealers and child molesters should both be shot.  In singapore and other countries your first drug dealing conviction is your last.  They execute drug dealers.  In my view only losers take illegal drugs.


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## Sasha (Jun 30, 2009)

fortsmithman said:


> I know but both drug dealers and child molesters should both be shot.  In singapore and other countries your first drug dealing conviction is your last.  They execute drug dealers.  In my view only losers take illegal drugs.



Sorry you feel that way. Luckily not everyone shares your intolerant view.


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## HotelCo (Jun 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Drug dealer's "victims" are willing participant where as a child molestor's victims are not.
> 
> Also let's not paint all "child molestors" with the same brush. Some recieved that conviction for sleeping with their 15 year old girlfriend after they turned 18.
> 
> ...



So then you're willing to admit that drug dealing and child molestation, are NOT the same thing?


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 30, 2009)

And that's enough of this one.


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