# Firetruck runs over victim at crash site... Knowingly??



## SandpitMedic (Jan 16, 2014)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/us/asiana-crash-new-video/

New video suggests that the engine crew was told and clearly directed away from the victim, but somehow managed to still run her over. This is from the plane crash last year at SFO. I know it's a fire thing, but EMS/MCI related. 

I think there is sufficient grounds for negligence in this case. Interesting scenario. Possibly perjury and conspiracy/cover up charges if they all knowingly falsified documentation stating they didn't see her and/or was covered in foam which she clearly wasn't. Perhaps that isn't the engine that even ran her over, but responders clearly knew she was there. 

If I was responding and someone warns me and visually directs me away from a victim or anything dangerous, my rig is going away from that victim/danger.


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## Aprz (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeh, I watched video. :[

Good point I didn't think about, maybe that's not the engine that ran her over.

After that guy stopping the engine, I would have tried to make her more noticeable and make it very clear over the radio the location of the patient.


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## ProZack (Jan 16, 2014)

Wow, thats crazy.  From what I saw it looks as though protocall was not followed.  But then I think its hard to say what happened unless you were on the scene.  Especially from some video snipets that the press released.


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## Tigger (Jan 16, 2014)

I think it's quite premature to start talking about perjury or conspiracy charges at this point, especially considering the lack of information.  

There may never be a clear account of what happened.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 16, 2014)

This is what I'm going to say.

Yes they knew she was there and should have been moved. They are also in the middle of an MCI with hundreds of patients. 

Airport fire's primary mission is suppression, not EMS. Fire doesn't help us with patients on fire scenes...they do their job and we do ours. Where's the criticism for the EMS crews that didn't evac her? Where's the criticism for the bystanders standing around with capable hands yet they did nothing? Huh?

Just sickens me that from one news report we're ready to hang our brothers and sisters publicly.

Looked to me like she had a layer of foam on her when they "maneuvered the truck into the area".


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 16, 2014)

You know Robb I had a nice long post In regards to yours but I will just instead say you have no idea what your talking about or how this event unfolded and leave it at that.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 16, 2014)

No let's hear it.

I'm too young to know what I'm talking about right? 

You ever been on a large scale MCI scene? Because I have.

Maybe I wasn't at this specific event but were you? What makes you the expert? If you know something by all means share it so we can know what really happened. Since you seem to be the only person here who does know.


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## mycrofft (Jan 16, 2014)

No comment. Once again truth and reason are cast out as the lawsuits start in. I have no idea whether or not it is unequivocally proven that she died as a consequence of the truck; this was a sensational video obviously furnished and almost narrated by the family's lawyer, so it is not unbiased.

The point at which the truck started again, she was covered with foam and not easily discerned as human. 

The body or survivor should have been moved and the location marked before the truck was allowed further in, but that wasn't done. I'm betting the firefighters were drummed on the importance of NOT moving stuff, especially victims.

The fire didn't seem to be on the verge of causing an explosion and other survivors seem to have been cleared out, so appropriate urgency doesn't seem a valid excuse.

A sad affair.


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## SandpitMedic (Jan 16, 2014)

Robb, I've got to disagree on this one brothaman. 
I'm not casting them out, nor publicly shaming them. I'm not eager to do either.

I've been on MCIs. And I also been on fire scenes. Regardless of suppression vs EMS, they are emergency responders and have a duty to act to prevent harm to that one (among many) patient(s) no matter what as much as they are capable; any less MAY be construed as negligence.  Being a professional and not allowing our emotions to get us all spun up is what differentiates us from the lay person. (That along with a few cool toys and know-how.) To include not running patients over en route or on scene. She was not covered in foam, and a fully uniformed fireman was standing right next to her directing the (an) engine away. You can't just drag her away, perhaps you can't attend to her just yet as this was before "EMS" ambulances were on the scene. She needs to be triaged, tagged, cspine'd, treated, etc. Dragging her out of the way is a no go, leaving her abandoned to be run over is a no go as well.

Again this is based on the snips of video biased by the media on a witch hunt and the attorneys of the family, but it shows enough to raise the national eyebrow and peak curiosity. Accidents happen; most accidents are preventable. And when you're supposed to be the "preventer" and cause an accident- you get the doo-doo end of the stick- everytime. While it is certainly too early to arrive at a finite conclusion based on the story/evidence we've gotten so far. 

My initial comment was my opinion intended to share my point of view and ideas to induce intelligent debate and conversation on the topic. That said, there's no reason for things to start getting so heated in here.


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## SandpitMedic (Jan 16, 2014)

Tigger,

You're right, there may never be a clear account of what happened. 

Although, I'm quite sure that the things we saw in that clip were not in the documentation of their reports. I'm pretty sure it says that she was covered in foam, causing them to not see her. Well guess what "hey there's a body right there in front of you," is pretty clear. Combine another dude doing the wave off... Jeeze. Unless that engineer's eyes & ears were covered in foam- they lied. As many would do a little paperwork fudging in the good old boys club of the airport firemen. C'mon, don't be niave. Charges for perjury/conspiracy/cover up.... I said possibly. Not absolutely, and it's never too early to talk ethics, nor is it ever too early for beer.

Someone is going down for this. As I said, it's national spotlight now. Eyebrows are raised, and pitch forks are out...


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## SandpitMedic (Jan 16, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> A sad affair.



Truly.
Likely the best comment yet.


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## Meth0dz19 (Jan 30, 2014)

*SF firefighter files lawsuit against SFFD*

I recently saw on the news yesterday that the SF Firefighter who was blamed for running the pt. over filed a lawsuit against SFFD for defamation. 

The veteran female FF mentioned on the article I read she was being discriminated against and had to cover it up for another FF who was the actual driver.
All bad..


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 30, 2014)

Coroner reports says the victim was dead before she was run over by fire apparatus.

http://news.msn.com/us/san-francisco-rescuers-didnt-kill-asiana-victim


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## shfd739 (Jan 30, 2014)

Ummm. Coroner said she was alive when run over.  City attorney report says she wasn't.


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## mycrofft (Jan 30, 2014)

Truth is the second victim.

Looks like County coroner based his finding of "alive" on bleeding, while City coroner used other means (say, smoke/dust absent from trachea or something like that…(I Do Not Know).

Crash investigation will have to call the toss.


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