# AMR's Fate



## BayareaMedic (Jan 21, 2012)

I heard recently that AMR lost ALCO,SCCO kaiser contracts. Anyone know about this? They lost 911 contracts in both of those areas, now BLS? That's gotta hurt if its true.


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## Shishkabob (Jan 21, 2012)

They lost ALCO a long time ago, not news there.


AMR is in many states.  They aren't really hurting.


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## JPINFV (Jan 21, 2012)

AMR's fate is that it will have more peaks and troughs than a sine wave.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 21, 2012)

Linuss said:


> They lost ALCO a long time ago, not news there.
> 
> 
> AMR is in many states.  They aren't really hurting.



Same. 

AMR is an extremely big company so there is really no fear of waking up one day and not having a job. Even tho they lose contracts they are still gaining some and at the same time buying out other ambulance companies.


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## BayareaMedic (Jan 21, 2012)

I get as a company overall they aren't hurting, but it seems like slowly their contracts are slipping away. It was said that ALCO accounted for some 40% of AMR's overall income. Im sure loosing BLS contracts isn't helping the matter


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jan 21, 2012)

BayareaMedic said:


> I get as a company overall they aren't hurting, but it seems like slowly their contracts are slipping away. It was said that ALCO accounted for some 40% of AMR's overall income. Im sure loosing BLS contracts isn't helping the matter



There are many counties that haven't had the pleasure and need to be taught a lesson...  AMR is targeting them next...


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## Amberlamps916 (Jan 21, 2012)

I've heard from a couple of LA city fire guys that AMR is negotiating with the city of LA about taking over the EMS system in Los Angeles. Apparently they are trying to show the city how much money would be saved if they made the switch to AMR. I've also heard that's why the upcoming UCLA-Daniel Freeman class was cancelled for this very reason while things get situated. This is all hearsay mind you. Any input or factual information would be greatly appreciated.


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## terrible one (Jan 21, 2012)

Too big to fail...
Oh wait...


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## Sandog (Jan 21, 2012)

terrible one said:


> Too big to fail...
> Oh wait...



Umm, Pan AM, Pontiac, Kodak...


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## Anjel (Jan 21, 2012)

They failed in michigan. They came, took everyone over, and left. Now there is one small branch all the way at the top of the mitten.


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## Hockey (Jan 21, 2012)

Anjel1030 said:


> They failed in michigan. They came, took everyone over, and left. Now there is one small branch all the way at the top of the mitten.



Uh...might want to read up on your Michigan geography... 

Grand Rapids...


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## Anjel (Jan 21, 2012)

Yea i was thinking about that once i posted. Still way over there lol

I was thinking of something else. 

Im tired lol


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## Shishkabob (Jan 21, 2012)

40% of their income? Hardly.   A single 911 contract.


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## WhiskeySix5 (Jan 21, 2012)

Linuss said:


> 40% of their income? Hardly.   A single 911 contract.



+2

They consistently have 1+ billion a year in revenues, so that would have to be one heck of a contract.


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## terrible one (Jan 21, 2012)

Sandog said:


> Umm, Pan AM, Pontiac, Kodak...



Pretty much my point.


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## bleedblue (Jan 21, 2012)

Having had AMR come in and try to run this county twice, I can tell you that no matter what happens... SOMEONE will come in and take over EMS in your neck of the woods... and they usually hire from the previous employees for the previous company... at least here they do. The only exception to this rule is when fire departments take over transport... and you know what you have to do to make sure that doesn't happen... go work for a fire dept.


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> I've heard from a couple of LA city fire guys that AMR is negotiating with the city of LA about taking over the EMS system in Los Angeles. Apparently they are trying to show the city how much money would be saved if they made the switch to AMR. I've also heard that's why the upcoming UCLA-Daniel Freeman class was cancelled for this very reason while things get situated. This is all hearsay mind you. Any input or factual information would be greatly appreciated.



It would be an enormus amount, think about it the LAcity FFs make an enormus amount in Salary, couple that with there pension/benefits and the equipment. The city would save Millions. LAcities EMS division does not recoup the Cost it takes to run EMS, with its transport fees.


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## bigbaldguy (Jan 22, 2012)

terrible one said:


> Too big to fail...
> Oh wait...





Sandog said:


> Umm, Pan AM, Pontiac, Kodak...



Exactly, when you get to the top of the hill there are a lot of people looking to knock you off. Never assume a company won't fail just because they're bigger than everyone else. Often it is a companies size that eventually causes their downfall. This happens all the time in the Airline industry and there are many parallels between the way airlines grow and the way AMR has grown.


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## BF2BC EMT (Jan 22, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> I've heard from a couple of LA city fire guys that AMR is negotiating with the city of LA about taking over the EMS system in Los Angeles. Apparently they are trying to show the city how much money would be saved if they made the switch to AMR. I've also heard that's why the upcoming UCLA-Daniel Freeman class was cancelled for this very reason while things get situated. This is all hearsay mind you. Any input or factual information would be greatly appreciated.



We can only hope so. Maybe other counties will take note.


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## mike1390 (Jan 22, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> I've heard from a couple of LA city fire guys that AMR is negotiating with the city of LA about taking over the EMS system in Los Angeles. Apparently they are trying to show the city how much money would be saved if they made the switch to AMR. I've also heard that's why the upcoming UCLA-Daniel Freeman class was cancelled for this very reason while things get situated. This is all hearsay mind you. Any input or factual information would be greatly appreciated.




Dont believe this for one second.


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2012)

mike1390 said:


> Dont believe this for one second.



Why not? Know something we don't?


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## VCEMT (Jan 22, 2012)

Places that have weak or no union contracts are seeing cuts in hours. People are seeing a 48 hour work week turned into 40 and some are losing way more. Read your contracts, don't get hosed.


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## Veneficus (Jan 22, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> Exactly, when you get to the top of the hill there are a lot of people looking to knock you off. Never assume a company won't fail just because they're bigger than everyone else. Often it is a companies size that eventually causes their downfall. This happens all the time in the Airline industry and there are many parallels between the way airlines grow and the way AMR has grown.



Right on point.

Even hospital systems struggle with "too big to succeed."

You don't have to be in one very long to figure it out either.


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## Fish (Jan 22, 2012)

VCEMT said:


> Places that have weak or no union contracts are seeing cuts in hours. People are seeing a 48 hour work week turned into 40 and some are losing way more. Read your contracts, don't get hosed.



IMO, Unions are detrimental to the American workforce. It is an outdated organization that was good for workers when conditions were horrible like during the Industrial revolution, now they are one of the big reasons jobs get sent over seas. Americans Americans demand and feel like they deserve so much more than a. Worker in china, india, thailand and a company is forced to move for profit reasons. Strong Unions will put private EMS services out of Business that depend on profit and then what will happen? The Fire dept. Will take over EMS ....... Just my thoughts on Unions




Northern states are Union rich, yet they are seeing employers move to the south to states not so fond on Unions. Unions seems cool in the begining but they are a good way to eventually put yourself out of a job.


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## ambusaurus (Jan 22, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> I've heard from a couple of LA city fire guys that AMR is negotiating with the city of LA about taking over the EMS system in Los Angeles. Apparently they are trying to show the city how much money would be saved if they made the switch to AMR. I've also heard that's why the upcoming UCLA-Daniel Freeman class was cancelled for this very reason while things get situated. This is all hearsay mind you. Any input or factual information would be greatly appreciated.



The City would be required to develop a competitive bidding process in order to make such a change. I'd assume if anyone would be taking over the "EMS system" in LA, it would more than likely be LA County Fire.

Cool rumor though!


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## mike1390 (Jan 22, 2012)

ambusaurus said:


> The City would be required to develop a competitive bidding process in order to make such a change. I'd assume if anyone would be taking over the "EMS system" in LA, it would more than likely be LA County Fire.
> 
> Cool rumor though!



X2

Not to mention there is no way the FF union would ever allow it. And the city also just implemented a department devoted to collecting on EMS runs, and are kicking around the idea to start a paramedic subscription program like other city's who's FD provide ambulances. It was all in the new LAFD budget plan. 
Also AMR does not have the best reputation with County EMS (losing contracts and all). Due to the city's size it would need to be broken up into zones like county is, if and this is a huge hypothetical if it were to happen.


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## Veneficus (Jan 22, 2012)

Never been there, but it seems like it would be a major money losing venture to provide EMS coverage to that location. 

Not really a good idea for a private for profit company...


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## Amberlamps916 (Jan 22, 2012)

These replies make sense. Thanks for the input fellas. Just wondering why fire ems would tell me about this rumor. I found nothing worthwhile about it online. The only thing that perplexes me is Daniel Freeman's May 2012 class getting the axe.


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## bstone (Jan 23, 2012)

What's AMR's record when it comes to medicare billing and any criminal or civil issues?


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## terrible one (Jan 23, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> These replies make sense. Thanks for the input fellas. Just wondering why fire ems would tell me about this rumor. I found nothing worthwhile about it online. The only thing that perplexes me is Daniel Freeman's May 2012 class getting the axe.



Because it cost the city several thousand if not closer to hundred of thousands of dollars to put one ff through paramedic school. Regular salary, OT pay to cover shifts, school costs, etc. and if you look in SoCal right now there isn't exactly a shortage of paramedics.


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## WhiskeySix5 (Jan 23, 2012)

bstone said:


> What's AMR's record when it comes to medicare billing and any criminal or civil issues?



Compared to what? The billing and criminal/civil actions of a municipality / city service, or another private service? Cities can hide much more than a private service can, especially if it is publicly traded as AMR was during the height of their medicare audit / fine.

I am not defending them per se, just stating that it is difficult to make a valid argument here as there are many companies that have been caught up in the medicare thing, and many services that have paid so much in civil fines and penalties.

The argument to me is that AMR, being as large as they are, can absorb much more than say a smaller company could, where the loss of a couple of contracts (or 1) could shut their doors. Most of us doing this awhile have probably seen this or been affected by this directly at one point or another. Is AMR too big to fail? Of course not, but they can rob from peter to pay paul till some new contracts come in.


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## atropine (Jan 23, 2012)

The LA city thing is just talk at this time, but the purposal is AMR would handle all the bls calls within the city limits and als would still be LAFD's responsibilty, there by eliminating the 800 series of ambulances.


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## mike1390 (Jan 23, 2012)

atropine said:


> The LA city thing is just talk at this time, but the purposal is AMR would handle all the bls calls within the city limits and als would still be LAFD's responsibilty, there by eliminating the 800 series of ambulances.



Again the city would have to open it up to a bid. So I doubt these "talks" are anymore than dinner table hear say.
Last year the rumor was that city was going to hire Single function EMTs again to staff the ambulances like Glendale is doing.... Again it's all rumors until a proposal is set and parties agree on it.


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## traumaluv2011 (Jan 23, 2012)

AMR is still going strong in New Haven. The local fire rescues are actually doing worse than AMR...


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## jgmedic (Jan 23, 2012)

mike1390 said:


> Again the city would have to open it up to a bid. So I doubt these "talks" are anymore than dinner table hear say.
> Last year the rumor was that city was going to hire Single function EMTs again to staff the ambulances like Glendale is doing.... Again it's all rumors until a proposal is set and parties agree on it.



The Glendale thing started 2 weeks ago, Pasadena is going that route too. We'll see how long it is til their medics turf something critical to the AO's and it blows up in their face.


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## Amberlamps916 (Jan 23, 2012)

So what's going on in Glendale and Pasadena?


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## VCEMT (Jan 23, 2012)

atropine said:


> The LA city thing is just talk at this time, but the purposal is AMR would handle all the bls calls within the city limits and als would still be LAFD's responsibilty, there by eliminating the 800 series of ambulances.




That sounds really... Waste of resources.


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## jgmedic (Jan 23, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> So what's going on in Glendale and Pasadena?



No more ALS ambulances. All rigs staffed with non-sworn AO's and medics ride on the engines, only jump on the ambulances if call is deemed ALS.


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## jgmedic (Jan 23, 2012)

VCEMT said:


> That sounds really... Waste of resources.



Not for LAFD. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it eliminates a lot of FF positions and saves the department money.


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## Amberlamps916 (Jan 23, 2012)

Non-sworn?


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## jgmedic (Jan 23, 2012)

Addrobo87 said:


> Non-sworn?



As in non-public safety, no union, little to no benefits, most likely part-time. A good leg into the department, but that's about it.


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## Amberlamps916 (Jan 23, 2012)

I see, thanks for the info on that.


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## TLettuce (Jan 23, 2012)

AMR took over here for a year and left a few years back. The business of EMS is constantly all over the place and companies like AMR are definitely effected by it. But they're not new to it either, they're not going calling it quits any time soon that's for sure.


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## Marty Mcfly (Jan 29, 2012)

I work for AMR, the kaiser is keeping us afloat in our region. Now losing it we only have one contract for fall back on and theres talk that were losing it in July.


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