# EMT-B's that pass the test amaze me..



## VirginiaEMT (Jul 15, 2011)

First of all, I am an EMT-B... I continue to be amazed at the quality of people who pass the EMT-B exam. This is not a reference about every EMT-B because I know there are good ones too. I thought the test was easy but over the last few weeks I have run calls with some people that should never be near a patient. Here are a couple of examples.

1. I asked an EMT-B what the proper dosage is for Glucagon and he said "1 tube", and he just finished his local protocol class.

2. Last night I read the narrative for a call that we had just been on and it started with the word "acsodintly".  I'll let you figure that one out.

3. I was on a call last week when I was told that a patients pulse rate was 60 when it was actually 84 in both arms.

And in 2 years, I have never seen and EMT-B actually read their textbook or any other book pertaining to pre-hospital care, after the graduated from EMT-B class.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 15, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> 1. I asked an EMT-B what the proper dosage is for Glucagon and he said "1 tube", and he just finished his local protocol class.



EMTs in your state can give IV/IM Glucagon?






The NREMT, while good in theory, is a joke.  There are medics who I wouldn't trust with a bandaid who have passed the test, and there are people who have failed multiple times who are some of the smartest people I know.




I passed the EMT and Paramedic first time, but that doesn't make me a fan of it.


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## fast65 (Jul 15, 2011)

Linuss said:


> EMTs in your state can give IV/IM Glucagon?


+1

I didn't know Glucagon was a basic skill in Virginia.

I do know what you're saying though, I have only worked with one basic that I wouldn't ever want to work on me, other than that, I'm fortunate to work with some really great EMT's.

I also proctor sonne of the testing for EMT-B's and I see what you're saying. When I ran the AED station I had one that couldn't figure out how to turn the AED on, it was really sad 


Sent from my mobile command center


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## emtchick171 (Jul 15, 2011)

Linuss said:


> EMTs in your state can give IV/IM Glucagon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In NC we can give glucagon IM for hypoglycemia, and we can also give it IV for beta blocker overdose.


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## abckidsmom (Jul 15, 2011)

Nope, EMT-Basics cannot give Glucagon in VA.  I think he means Glutose, in which case "1 tube" is a perfectly reasonable answer.  

As long as you document "Glutose" instead of "glucagon" on your PPCR.

While we're at it, glucagon comes in units of 1 mg.  You can document 1 unit or 1 mg on your PPCR, which further makes the first answer not completely ridiculous.

And a pulse of 84 in both arms?  Wow.  I usually keep 42 on each side.


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## medichopeful (Jul 15, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> And in 2 years, I have never seen and EMT-B actually read their textbook or any other book pertaining to pre-hospital care, after the graduated from EMT-B class.



Scary isn't it?  h34r:


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## HotelCo (Jul 15, 2011)

It amazes me how many EMTs feel they have a right to demean and criticize their coworkers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rwik123 (Jul 15, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> It amazes me how many EMTs feel they have a right to demean and criticize their coworkers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And paramedics are different?


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## bluesandtwos (Jul 15, 2011)

Ah yeah!


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 15, 2011)

Not to be an *** but...I can't believe EMT's who don't know their drugs rip on other EMT's for not knowing what they are doing....

Seriously dude.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Jul 15, 2011)

*Fail*



NVRob said:


> Not to be an *** but...I can't believe EMT's who don't know their drugs rip on other EMT's for not knowing what they are doing....
> 
> Seriously dude.









Fail.


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## EMT-IT753 (Jul 15, 2011)

"acsodintly"= Accidently. Just spell it like it sounds, isn't that acceptable???:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I do understand where you are coming from when it comes to spelling and grammer. Spelling errors irritate me to no end. We have spell check on our PCR's and we have dictionaries, but still people refuse to use them.


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## fast65 (Jul 15, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> And in 2 years, I have never seen and EMT-B actually read their textbook or any other book pertaining to pre-hospital care, after the graduated from EMT-B class.



I would like to point out that just because you don't see them reading their textbooks, doesn't mean that they aren't reading them at home. I rarely read my textbook on shift, I just find it hard to concentrate (could be because it's a terrible book, but that's beside the point).

Just because they don't want to reread their text, or expand on their level of knowledge doesn't mean that they're not a good EMT.

Sent from my mobile command center


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## mike1390 (Jul 15, 2011)

I dont think this thread went they way the OP was intending lol


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## Aerin-Sol (Jul 15, 2011)

EMT textbooks are pretty Basic. I don't blame anyone for not reading it after class.


I'm a grammar snob myself, but I don't remember any spelling questions on the NREMT, and I don't think there should be. EMT-B is not a very advanced job and I don't think it should be closed off to someone with low writing skills if that person is good at the other aspects of the job. Perhaps you could offer some assistance to your coworker?


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## fast65 (Jul 15, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> EMT textbooks are pretty Basic. I don't blame anyone for not reading it after class.
> 
> 
> I'm a grammar snob myself, but I don't remember any spelling questions on the NREMT, and I don't think there should be. EMT-B is not a very advanced job and I don't think it should be closed off to someone with low writing skills if that person is good at the other aspects of the job. Perhaps you could offer some assistance to your coworker?



But, but, it's easier to come make fun of them on the interwebz :unsure:


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jul 15, 2011)

mike1390 said:


> I dont think this thread went they way the OP was intending lol



I don't either. <_<

Back on track please.


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## Handsome Robb (Jul 15, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> I'm a grammar snob myself, but I don't remember any spelling questions on the NREMT, and I don't think there should be. EMT-B is not a very advanced job and I don't think it should be closed off to someone with low writing skills if that person is good at the other aspects of the job.



I will side with the OP on this part at least. We all complain that we aren't viewed as professionals, yet do not hold our standards to that of a professional career.

If that chart ever went to court the provider would get torn to pieces by a lawyer. "If you cant spell a High School level word, how can you be competent in providing life saving measures?"


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## fast65 (Jul 15, 2011)

NVRob said:


> I will side with the OP on this part at least. We all complain that we aren't viewed as professionals, yet do not hold our standards to that of a professional career.
> 
> If that chart ever went to court the provider would get torn to pieces by a lawyer. "If you cant spell a High School level word, how can you be competent in providing life saving measures?"



This is true, I know that our medical director would tear us a new one if there were grammatical errors like that one in our charts.


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## LucidResq (Jul 15, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> EMT textbooks are pretty Basic. I don't blame anyone for not reading it after class.
> 
> 
> I'm a grammar snob myself, but I don't remember any spelling questions on the NREMT, and I don't think there should be. EMT-B is not a very advanced job and I don't think it should be closed off to someone with low writing skills if that person is good at the other aspects of the job. Perhaps you could offer some assistance to your coworker?



I disagree. Considering how many legal documents an EMT will write, you need to be able to spell. If you have poor spelling you need to work on improving it and still ensure your reports are presentable and spelled correctly. I worked with a girl with extreme dyslexia. She carried a small electronic dictionary with her. Yes, it took her longer to fill out a report but her reports were acceptable with very few errors.

Not knowing how to spell "accidentally" and taking a minute to look it up is one thing, as is a rare simple mistake like writing "accidentaly" - writing something as egregious as "acsodintly" in a medical record and legal document is unacceptable.


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## VirginiaEMT (Jul 15, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Nope, EMT-Basics cannot give Glucagon in VA.  I think he means Glutose, in which case "1 tube" is a perfectly reasonable answer.
> 
> As long as you document "Glutose" instead of "glucagon" on your PPCR.
> 
> ...




WRONG!! I can give Glucagon IM for hypoglycemia (standing orders)... My local protocols allow it,along with 12 leads, King airway, Epipen ( not the patients,standing orders), among other things. Good try though!!! And YES InstaGlucose come in a tube..

FROM OUR PROTOCOLS

Notes:
[EMT] Only EMTs who have completed training through a CSEMS local protocol course are authorized to give glucagon.
Glucagon may be given to reverse effects of beta-blocker drug overdoses. A significant dose is needed to be effective, usually 3 to 10 mg IV bolus followed by a 2 to 5 mg/h infusion).


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## VirginiaEMT (Jul 15, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> It amazes me how many EMTs feel they have a right to demean and criticize their coworkers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Still doesn't change the fact that there are some ignorant people coming out of EMT-B classes. Not referring to everybody, just those who have just enough sense to barely make it in the world.

EMS is a world where peoples lives are at stake. This is not learning the register at Taco Bell or Burger King where a mistake may cost somebody there pickles.


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## abckidsmom (Jul 15, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> WRONG!! I can give Glucagon IM for hypoglycemia (standing orders)... My local protocols allow it,along with 12 leads, King airway, Epipen ( not the patients,standing orders), among other things. Good try though!!! And YES InstaGlucose come in a tube..
> 
> FROM OUR PROTOCOLS
> 
> ...



Sorry, I had forgotten that Dr Brand had moved out that way.  He was a very progressive OMD when he was ours some time ago.


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## Tigger (Jul 15, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> First of all, I am an EMT-B... I continue to be amazed at the quality of people who pass the EMT-B exam. This is not a reference about every EMT-B because I know there are good ones too. I thought the test was easy but over the last few weeks I have run calls with some people that should never be near a patient. Here are a couple of examples.
> 
> 1. I asked an EMT-B what the proper dosage is for Glucagon and he said "1 tube", and he just finished his local protocol class.
> 
> ...



People make mistakes. Instead of belittling out your coworkers in an anonymous forum, maybe consider taking the high road and turn these into teachable moments. Remind you're coworkers that run reports are legal documents, and that their credibility could be at stake. I've gotta admit, I've made some pretty stupid grammar errors when I'm behind on my narratives and am trying to catch up. Honest mistakes happen, and I appreciate when my partner lets me know that I keep replacing "due to" with "do to."

With the pulses, there is no excuse for making up vital signs, but instead of belittling the guy, give him reasons why that's not acceptable, and maybe ask yourself, "Am I too intimidating during calls to the point that my partner is afraid to admit that he cannot get the vitals?" Sometimes it takes a different set of hands or ears.

As for the textbook...you won't find me reading it on shift since I don't want to carry that heavy POS around that I already read once. I can further my knowledge in other ways, thank you very much.


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## mike1390 (Jul 15, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> Still doesn't change the fact that there are some ignorant people coming out of EMT-B classes. Not referring to everybody, just those who have just enough sense to barely make it in the world.
> 
> EMS is a world where peoples lives are at stake. This is not learning the register at Taco Bell or Burger King where a mistake may cost somebody there pickles.



<_< right. Its called a BASIC class for a reason. The glucagon thing is just silly.
who cares? Its a pretty idiot proof drug mix the clear stuff into the powder stuff then inject. Your always going to give the full 1mg(unless its a ped in which you have a broslow for) so unless I was grading a test I would accept the "1 tube" answer...As far as the EPIpen is concerned un-cap stick in leg hold for 10 sec, easy enough.

side note: I did some research on your previous threads started @EMTlife, it sounds like you were very new once also.  

Just sayin.


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## usalsfyre (Jul 15, 2011)

mike1390 said:


> <_< right. Its called a BASIC class for a reason. The glucagon thing is just silly.
> who cares? Its a pretty idiot proof drug mix the clear stuff into the powder stuff then inject. Your always going to give the full 1mg(unless its a ped in which you have a broslow for) so unless I was grading a test I would accept the "1 tube" answer...As far as the EPIpen is concerned un-cap stick in leg hold for 10 sec, easy enough.



Glad to see you have high expectations.

Very simply, if your giving a med, you should know the dose. Telling the recieving nurse "one tube" is a surefire way to get branded as an idiot. Why does that bother me? Because I get branded by association. 

The basic course in no way qualifies one to be an independent provider in anyone but EMS's eyes. There's ALOT of great basics out there. Not one of them stopped learning after class. All of them I know are able to at least give a report using correct terminology. 

Anyone who wants to whine about low pay needs to look at this kind of stuff first. Why do we rate more pay if it's a manual labor job anyone can do?


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## usalsfyre (Jul 15, 2011)

Tigger said:


> As for the textbook...you won't find me reading it on shift since I don't want to carry that heavy POS around that I already read once. I can further my knowledge in other ways, thank you very much.


The EMT text book is pretty effing useless once your out of class anyway. I reccomend nursing and medical text. Many of which are available via e-reader. Be careful taking what's on the web as gospel.


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## joeshmoe (Jul 17, 2011)

One thing that stands out in my mind about some new EMTs is how lazy and whiney some are. 

I worked as a CNA, and the conditions we had to put up with and amount of work we had to do was totally insane for the money we made, and it was a totally thankless job, yet nobody really complained. In EMS you get some new EMTs who expect the job to be glamorous, and seem to think they are above doing some tasks and deserve a medal just for doing their job.


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## Dougy (Jul 17, 2011)

There was an EMT i know who said that she got lost so easily whilst driving to hospitals, or anywhere for that matter, that if she pulled into a parking lot, made a U turn, and came  back to pull back out.. she would not know where she came from.. ZOINKS.


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## emt junkie (Jul 19, 2011)

joeshmoe said:


> One thing that stands out in my mind about some new EMTs is how lazy and whiney some are.
> 
> I worked as a CNA, and the conditions we had to put up with and amount of work we had to do was totally insane for the money we made, and it was a totally thankless job, yet nobody really complained. In EMS you get some new EMTs who expect the job to be glamorous, and seem to think they are above doing some tasks and deserve a medal just for doing their job.



 I know Alot of medics that that have the same problem so just don't hold it to basics.   As a matter of fact this seems to be a Basic smashing thread and everything in this thread can be said about ALOT of medics as well!!!!


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## Sasha (Jul 19, 2011)

joeshmoe said:


> One thing that stands out in my mind about some new EMTs is how lazy and whiney some are.
> 
> I worked as a CNA, and the conditions we had to put up with and amount of work we had to do was totally insane for the money we made, and it was a totally thankless job, yet nobody really complained. In EMS you get some new EMTs who expect the job to be glamorous, and seem to think they are above doing some tasks and deserve a medal just for doing their job.



That's because there is no shows glamorizing the life of a CNA, and I doubt the instructors make any bones about what exactly you will be doing. (And just as a side note, here the CNAs get paid more than an EMT.)

Any medical drama sets up EMTs and Paramedics to think that they are going to be heros always rushing off to a life or death emergency. Instructors try to make it more interesting and make themselves seem more impressive. 

So an EMT or Paramedic gets out, expects to be working two codes a day, coupled with a few car crashes where they pull the kids out and save their lives. They find themselves working more toe pain and "my script ran out." and also find that they are NOT life savers and their actions are often futile with occasional exceptions.

They're not happy with what their job REALLY entails but after all the time, money and effort can't just abandon their jobs for something they would find more fufilling.

That doesn't happen with CNAs. You know you're going to be helping patients eat, toilet, dress and get into their wheelchairs. No one ever sets you up for the expectation that your job will be action packed and heroic.


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## Sasha (Jul 19, 2011)

emt junkie said:


> I know Alot of medics that that have the same problem so just don't hold it to basics.   As a matter of fact this seems to be a Basic smashing thread and everything in this thread can be said about ALOT of medics as well!!!!



I don't think it was EMT bashing. the person you quoted is an EMT.


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## Elk Oil (Jul 19, 2011)

Tigger said:


> People make mistakes. Instead of belittling out your coworkers in an anonymous forum, maybe consider taking the high road and turn these into teachable moments. Remind you're coworkers that run reports are legal documents, and that their credibility could be at stake. I've gotta admit, I've made some pretty stupid grammar errors when I'm behind on my narratives and am trying to catch up. Honest mistakes happen, and I appreciate when my partner lets me know that I keep replacing "due to" with "do to."
> 
> With the pulses, there is no excuse for making up vital signs, but instead of belittling the guy, give him reasons why that's not acceptable, and maybe ask yourself, "Am I too intimidating during calls to the point that my partner is afraid to admit that he cannot get the vitals?" Sometimes it takes a different set of hands or ears.



Agreed.  Our service has a field training program for all new members.  We use it as a way to mentor and help probationary members improve their skills.  The one thing we don't want to lose sight of is that we have all been new, lacked some confidence or needed a helping hand.  The bottom line is, our service wants to create an environment that makes it okay to admit you need help, then offer that help.  Part of the manual we give to new members offers tips for success:

"Good EMTs aren’t afraid to jump right in, yet they also know how to work effectively with their teammates and know how they fit in with the flow of a call.  They are confident in their decisions yet ask others for help if they want other opinions during a complicated incident, aren’t able to hear lung sounds, can’t obtain a blood pressure, have difficulty evaluating mental status, or are simply unsure of something they’re hearing or seeing."

We've got Intermediates and medics who ask basics to double check their lung sounds and vitals.  It's all part of creating a team atmosphere and letting each other know none of us are above needing a hand every now and then.


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## EMTSTUDENT25 (Aug 30, 2011)

Good Response


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## Anthony7994 (Aug 30, 2011)

VirginiaEMT said:


> And in 2 years, I have never seen and EMT-B actually read their textbook or any other book pertaining to pre-hospital care, after the graduated from EMT-B class.



It's amazing, I know...pretty sad. :huh:


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## Anthony7994 (Aug 30, 2011)

joeshmoe said:


> One thing that stands out in my mind about some new EMTs is how lazy and whiney some are.
> 
> I worked as a CNA, and the conditions we had to put up with and amount of work we had to do was totally insane for the money we made, and it was a totally thankless job, yet nobody really complained. In EMS you get some new EMTs who expect the job to be glamorous, and seem to think they are above doing some tasks and deserve a medal just for doing their job.



And I've seen some CNAs who thought they were above all as well...I can't tell you how many times we've walked into nursing homes with a guppy breathing, respiratory distress patient on 2L/m via cannula...or even worse, when they have it on 6L/m via NB. :/

It happens among every career. There's always people who give the rest of us a bad name, and take the job only because they want to be looked at as "heroes". It's a shame, but that's the way it is and it takes the rest of us to help them correct it, or get them the hell out.


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## brandonaemt (Aug 30, 2011)

I still read through my EMT-Basic book and I always cary my EMT-Basic Informed Pocket Guide with me. You can never remember everything, so it's nice to always have a reference on hand when you need.


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## CheifBud (Aug 30, 2011)

I think you have proven that once a post goes past 2 or so pages it turns into a rant.  What answer, or point, or enlightenment are you bringing us?  Then eventually people start to complain about people complaining, so now, I have to complain about people complaining about people complaining.... 

 I feel your pain, not everyone is created equal.  We understand this crazy new concept you bring to the table.  There are people that preform sub par in every profession from a janitor to.... the president!  Complaining about a few EMTs does nothing.... I mean really, what are we trying to accomplish or is this just to bash a few people that will never read this thread since as you said they do little to no outside learning?

Now if you have a question, an idea/proposal, scenario, ect. you want to run by us we can help.  Other than that I just don't know what you want/expect from this post....

As per the OP, I am not surprised at all how many PASS the test, its trivial.  I am however surprised at how many remain employed for any period of time as an EMT.

Wisconsin Basic gets to admin. IM Glucagon.  Woot wooooh!


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## mct601 (Aug 30, 2011)

Some of this can be chalked up to the classes. It seems to me the classes are focused more on registry than it is on cultivating competent entry level EMTs. Once the newcomer gets into the field, he/she has a steep learning curve. Personally I think the EMT level as a whole needs to be revamped, and hopefully with that, weeding out those who do not belong in our field. 

So basically, I do agree with the OP in a sense. We are supposed to be knowledgeable role models in the community, and while a new Basic isn't going to be Einstein, it seems so many might as well have just been "drivers" and went from there. While he may be venting about this on a forum, there's really no need to belittle him for doing it. We come here to vent for all kinds of issues, no need to chastise him for pointing out something that many are noticing to be a plague.

As far as reading the EMT book, I read it a little between passing registry and my first job- but it really is worthless. I get way more out of reading peer reviewed text on the internet and sitting in on ALS level classes/refreshers at my employer's education center.


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## starkel (Sep 1, 2011)

I agree that instead of whining at what your partner is doing wrong that maybe you should be helping him/her out. This will not only serve him to better himself as an EMT it will also help you as a person. Negativity will get you nowhere. Didn't you get into this field to help people, who better to help than your partner?


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## DillR (Sep 1, 2011)

Gotta be the grammar nazi here


VirginiaEMT said:


> EMS is a world where peoples lives are at stake. This is not learning the register at Taco Bell or Burger King where a mistake may cost somebody there pickles.





> cost somebody there pickles





> *their



Fixed.


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## sweetpete (Sep 1, 2011)

Elk Oil said:


> Agreed.  Our service has a field training program for all new members.  We use it as a way to mentor and help probationary members improve their skills.  The one thing we don't want to lose sight of is that we have all been new, lacked some confidence or needed a helping hand.  The bottom line is, our service wants to create an environment that makes it okay to admit you need help, then offer that help.  Part of the manual we give to new members offers tips for success:
> 
> "Good EMTs aren’t afraid to jump right in, yet they also know how to work effectively with their teammates and know how they fit in with the flow of a call.  They are confident in their decisions yet ask others for help if they want other opinions during a complicated incident, aren’t able to hear lung sounds, can’t obtain a blood pressure, have difficulty evaluating mental status, or are simply unsure of something they’re hearing or seeing."
> 
> We've got Intermediates and medics who ask basics to double check their lung sounds and vitals.  It's all part of creating a team atmosphere and letting each other know none of us are above needing a hand every now and then.



POST OF THE DAY!!!! If not the year. I love a "team" atmosphere where medics, intermediates, and basics and everyone above and below those levels work for a common goal. That's exactly the kind of place I'd want to work and more importantly, that's the kind of place I'd want working on my loved one.

Excellent post, Elk Oil.  (clap, clap, clap)


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## SceneNotSecure (Sep 4, 2011)

I feel your pain, not everyone is created equal.  We understand this crazy new concept you bring to the table.  There are people that preform sub par in every profession from a janitor to.... the president!  Complaining about a few EMTs does nothing.... I mean really, what are we trying to accomplish or is this just to bash a few people that will never read this thread since as you said they do little to no outside learning


After sitting in the background as an occasional visitor to this website, this made me join.


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## DillR (Sep 4, 2011)

SceneNotSecure said:


> After sitting in the background as an occasional visitor to this website, this made me join.



Welcome!


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