# Saddleback vs. Mt. Sac paramedic school?



## MondoMarcus (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm looking into paramedic schools to apply for and have a couple of options that I want to pursue. I live in Huntington Beach, so Saddleback is about twenty minutes closer to me, but I don't mind driving the extra time every day if Mt. Sac is the better school.

Basically if you guys have any info on what the better school is, that would be great. A positive learning experience and high NR pass rate are the most important things for me. 

I know that Mt. Sac meets Monday through Friday, but what about Saddleback? I'd really appreciate any info from anyone who has attended either school. Thanks so much.

Are there any other schools that I should look into?


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## jgmedic (Nov 21, 2013)

MondoMarcus said:


> I'm looking into paramedic schools to apply for and have a couple of options that I want to pursue. I live in Huntington Beach, so Saddleback is about twenty minutes closer to me, but I don't mind driving the extra time every day if Mt. Sac is the better school.
> 
> Basically if you guys have any info on what the better school is, that would be great. A positive learning experience and high NR pass rate are the most important things for me.
> 
> ...



Anywhere not in OC/LA


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## Sandog (Nov 21, 2013)

I know Saddleback is accredited, not sure about the other.


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## AnteaterMedic (Nov 21, 2013)

Goto Mt. SAC.


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## brian328 (Nov 21, 2013)

saddleback is pretty difficult to get in to because OCFA has first priority in regards to getting people in to the program. i don't know much about mt. sac so i won't comment on that. the daniel freeman paramedic program at UCLA is supposedly one of the best in california. it is quite difficult to get in to as LAFD, LAcoFD, and many other FDs send their people through the program. you can also check out NCTI. it is pretty expensive, but it is easy to get in to. also, NCTI is only like 2-3 days a week so you still have time to work.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 21, 2013)

brian328 said:


> saddleback is pretty difficult to get in to because OCFA has first priority in regards to getting people in to the program. i don't know much about mt. sac so i won't comment on that. the daniel freeman paramedic program at UCLA is supposedly one of the best in california. it is quite difficult to get in to as LAFD, LAcoFD, and many other FDs send their people through the program. you can also check out NCTI. it is pretty expensive, but it is easy to get in to. also, NCTI is only like 2-3 days a week so you still have time to work.



I would stray away from NCTI if you want to be a paramedic in your lifetime. Many (almost all) of their students finished classroom 8-12 months ago and are still waiting for placement for field internship. 

I've heard many good things about Sac. Their NREMT pass rate in 2010 (the last year NREMT made results public) was in the high 90%. 

I haven't heard anything about saddleback.


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## Jim37F (Nov 21, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> I would stray away from NCTI if you want to be a paramedic in your lifetime. Many (almost all) of their students finished classroom 8-12 months ago and are still waiting for placement for field internship.
> 
> I've heard many good things about Sac. Their NREMT pass rate in 2010 (the last year NREMT made results public) was in the high 90%.
> 
> I haven't heard anything about saddleback.



What about Mt Sac vs UCLA? I'm getting to the point where I'm pretty much decided I want to start medic school fall 2014 and don't want to start a whole new thread asking basically the same thing lol


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## terrible one (Nov 21, 2013)

Everyone always says UCLA is good, however, you are doing your internship in LAco. EMTs in other states have almost the same scope as an LA county paramedic. Most of their protocols say somewhere 'contact Base' before doing much treatment. Probably why they need 10 paramedics on every scene, someone's phone has to work so you can ask an RN what to do!


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 21, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> What about Mt Sac vs UCLA? I'm getting to the point where I'm pretty much decided I want to start medic school fall 2014 and don't want to start a whole new thread asking basically the same thing lol



The post below is the only thing that I have heard about UCLA. 



terrible one said:


> Everyone always says UCLA is good, however, you are doing your internship in LAco. EMTs in other states have almost the same scope as an LA county paramedic. Most of their protocols say somewhere 'contact Base' before doing much treatment. Probably why they need 10 paramedics on every scene, someone's phone has to work so you can ask an RN what to do!



We don't have any employees (that I know of) who went to UCLA. Most of our employees went to either NCTI or Crafton Hills College. We have a fair number of employees who went to Mt Sac or Riverside Community.


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## jgmedic (Nov 21, 2013)

terrible one said:


> Everyone always says UCLA is good, however, you are doing your internship in LAco. EMTs in other states have almost the same scope as an LA county paramedic. Most of their protocols say somewhere 'contact Base' before doing much treatment. Probably why they need 10 paramedics on every scene, someone's phone has to work so you can ask an RN what to do!


This is exactly why I said what I said earlier, OC and LA trained medics tend(tend, not all) to lack some critical thinking and be a bit more on the cookbook side. There are some great medics there but the ones I've seen come out to Kern or Riverside have tended to struggle, at least at first. I would venture to say it would be beneficial to go to school in a county where you would be doing your ride outs in a more high performance system.


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## Jim37F (Nov 21, 2013)

jgmedic said:


> This is exactly why I said what I said earlier, OC and LA trained medics tend(tend, not all) to lack some critical thinking and be a bit more on the cookbook side. There are some great medics there but the ones I've seen come out to Kern or Riverside have tended to struggle, at least at first. I would venture to say it would be beneficial to go to school in a county where you would be doing your ride outs in a more high performance system.



Since I'm in the San Gabriel Valley, San Bernardino and Riverside are almost as close to me as lots of LA/OC. Any good medic schools out that way? I do like Mt Sac since it is less than 20min from my house, but I'd be willing to drive a little bit for a good program and decent system to intern in, even if I am trying to go the Fire route here at home lol


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## Sandog (Nov 22, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> We don't have any employees (that I know of) who went to UCLA. Most of our employees went to either* NCTI *or Crafton Hills College. We have a fair number of employees who went to Mt Sac or Riverside Community.



But you just said in previous post NCTI is not a good school. I am confused.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 22, 2013)

Sandog said:


> But you just said in previous post NCTI is not a good school. I am confused.



As with any program you get what you put into it. 

NCTI does not have a very good reputation. 

A good amount of our employees came from NCTI (I never stated we have the best or the worst employees).


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## CentralCalEMT (Nov 22, 2013)

First off, you can get a good education at Saddleback, Mt. Sac, UCLA, etc if you put the effort in. If you are not a sponsored firefighter, you might feel like an outcast but you can still succeed if your put in the effort, that being said...................................

I have said it before and I will say it again. It is probably best to go out of county. Yes, it involves leaving your comfort zone, but you will learn more critical thinking skills due to the wider and more broad scope of practice you will use on your internship. Being a paramedic is about more than passing the national registry. Good paramedics do not follow cook book medicine, and can think outside the box. Unfortunately there are certain counties which mandate just that type of cook book medicine.

Bakersfield College, Ventura Community College, Riverside Community College, Crafton Hills College, West Hills College (Kings County, new for 2014), and several others that are in Central and Southern California all have programs where you will intern somewhere with the larger scope of practice. 

I went to Bakersfield College and it is a solid program. I am an LA transplant so I know how hard it is to leave home. Now I am dual accredited by Kern and CCEMSA (Tulare County) and love it. I feel like I can actually be a paramedic. (Ever done albuterol, epi, CPAP and a mag drip on the same patient all under standing orders?)


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## MondoMarcus (Nov 22, 2013)

This is all great info and I really do appreciate the effort you are all putting in to help me out.

If I do stay in the LA/OC area it sounds like the hour drive five days a week to Mt. Sac would be the way to go. But some are saying that I would get better experience in another county. What about San Francisco or even South towards San Diego?


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## jgmedic (Nov 22, 2013)

MondoMarcus said:


> This is all great info and I really do appreciate the effort you are all putting in to help me out.
> 
> If I do stay in the LA/OC area it sounds like the hour drive five days a week to Mt. Sac would be the way to go. But some are saying that I would get better experience in another county. What about San Francisco or even South towards San Diego?



Honestly the didactic should pretty much be the same wherever you go, it will generally be NREMT-P all around. The clinicals and internship are where you may see a difference. San Diego has mildly better protocols than LA\OC but it is still very Mother-may-I and their radio reports are ridiculous. The system is very FD-based, but to be fair, the FD's up there, esp. in North County take EMS pretty seriously. Palomar College is a decent medic program from what I know, but again, if you want to work in a progressive system, SD is still not the place. Even Riverside and ICEMA(San Bernardino) are not great but way better than down south. Kern County is pretty good, and from what I've seen, most of central CA isn't bad, then the Bay Area kinda drops back down. Just for reference I'm speaking from personal experience in Kern, Riverside, LA, SD, and OC. Ive been a practicing 911 medic in all of them except OC, and I was a 911 EMT there.


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## djarmpit (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm currently in Mt. Sac's precourse for the medic program. It's hell at the moment for me (my background is about 11 months of IFT experience, no 911). I'm also applying for Daniel Freeman's May program. 


Mt. Sac: Great program. I believe Mt. Sac has a great reputation for pumping out the best medics around. The program is definitely very hard, but if you are willing to put in the work, you can become a great medic. It's a relatively inexpensive program compared to other schools in the area. You are able to apply for financial aid and possibly have the program be *free* (with the exception of buying uniform and books). The process of getting in includes taking a 1.5 month precourse called EMS 1 which is two days a week. You have to pass the course with a 75% I believe and then you'll move on to EMS 2. If you pass EMS 2, then you're pretty much in the program. They accept 25 students for each program so there is a possibility that if you pass, you still might not get in if someone before you has priority registration. Overall, I believe the process to get into this school is the fairest out of all the other schools. They don't interview you here, they don't require $10,000, and they have an awesome reputation.

UCLA: The process to get into this program is unique. They are point based, require interviews, and an entrance exam. You are awarded points based off of having 911 experience, having a degree, having the A-Z misc classes (ekg, intro to pharm, alcs, pals, phtls, etc), getting a high score on the entrance exam, taking paramedic prep, volunteer experience, and other misc stuff. The program is about $10,000. I've been at the campus a couple times now to do volunteer work and take the paramedic prep. Although pricy, I can personally say that the staff here is very friendly and are great instructors. You will definitely be given the attention and help that you need in order to become a paramedic. I'm currently choosing this school and paying the 10k over getting a free education at Mt. Sac because I extremely respect and enjoy the instructors at UCLA (this is just my own opinion). They definitely do send a lot of sponsored firefighters here, and the best chance of getting into a program is by applying for the May one. 


Hope this helps.


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## Gurney Jockey (Nov 26, 2013)

I am a recent Mt Sac graduate. It's a tough course, don't get me wrong. Hopefully all paramedic courses are, perhaps with the exception of PTI. It's only 4 days a week, since you get Weds off. The teachers are all great. Yea, you hear stories about how terrifying Steve Williams is. And sure, sometimes he doesn't have the best people skills, but golly is he brilliant. I remember his lectures the best out of any other instructor. And Mt Sac is big on A&P, since it's not a prereq like at Crafton. I like to think that Mt Sac is the reason why I did so well on the critical care medic course I just took. I blew away my friend who I was studying with who went to NCTI 

If you can do the drive, and can afford the time it takes, I'd recommend Mt Sac. It's very inexpensive. And you don't have to intern in LA. You have the option of AMR Rancho or SBCoFD. And I believe they have more contracts with a few other FD's out in ICEMA (this might have happened after I had left). I interned with AMR Rancho and had a blastie. Especially since most of the preceptors there want you to do things your own way and not form you into a robot, like most FD preceptors. And plus, you can do clinicals at San Antonio Community Hospital! That hospital is amazeballs. The doc's are spectacular, and so are the nurses. Plus it's a STEMI/Stoke center.

So I guess those are my 2 cents. Any other questions, just holler! But not literally, because I won't be able to hear you, and you may frighten someone in your house


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## djarmpit (Nov 27, 2013)

Haribol2332 said:


> Basically if you guys have any info on what the better school is, that would be great. A positive learning experience and high NR pass rate are the most important things for me.



sign up for mt sacs precourse and see how you like it. go to a ucla new student orientation and see how you like it (ucla also let's you sit in on a didactic day for free)


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## terrible one (Nov 27, 2013)

Gurney Jockey said:


> I am a recent Mt Sac graduate. It's a tough course, don't get me wrong. Hopefully all paramedic courses are, perhaps with the exception of PTI.



Run far away from PTI! That place's only reason for existence is to supply local FDs with a quick, cheap, para-technician body that some how manages to obtain a P-card.


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## AnthonyM83 (Nov 28, 2013)

Call up both schools and see if you can have sit-down with administrators from both. UCLA will let you sit in on class, but Mt SAC won't due to the college's rules. Try to catch some of the students at break. 

I disagree with those who say it all comes down to what you put into it at "ANY" program. I know people who put in a LOT into NCTI, but still got really screwed. Basically a nightmare. You can definitely still go to NCTI and PTI and be a GREAT medic...I've met great medics from BOTH schools (by great, I mean top tier)...buuut those are exceptions AND they had to deal with a lot of BS and self-studying. 

BUT if you're trying to set yourself up best you can, I'd recommend UCLA, MtSAC, Crafton...

Mt SAC, you'll know a LOT. Very important for a medic. You'll be on point. It's often said, though, their skills and on-scene management is on the poor side.

UCLA, you'll have great educators, great experience, and learn some good critical thinking...
but less likely to have a critical thinking preceptor (unless you get a Ventura County internship).

You'll probably be okay at both. Both have good reps. People hear either name and know you worked hard. Wherever you go, you're going to have someone teach you how to apply your skills to the field during training. I know medics from one of the crappy schools to on to work at amazing places (RSI, required to think for yourself, etc) and still succeed.


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