# IV Practice



## BuddingEMT (Aug 11, 2009)

So I'm an EMT-B but I plan on going to paramedic school in the near future. My instructor from my Basic class showed me how to do an IV and I want to practice the skill. How did you guys practice? On friends or on yourself? Or did you just wait to do it on actual patients?


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## ResTech (Aug 11, 2009)

Many programs still allow learning the skill on each other in class. My program doesnt allow that ne more however due to insurance. So all of the "live" practice happens in the ED and field during clinical time. 

As an EMT if u want to play around and practice the skill, maybe find a IV training arm and stick that. It gives ya the idea and helps ya get your technique and sequence down.


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## Shishkabob (Aug 11, 2009)

My medic program had/has us practice on fake arms and on each other for a few times before we do any pt sticks.


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## HNcorpsman (Aug 12, 2009)

thats why i love the military!! its sooo safe, but yet soo reckless... ahhaha its great! but yeah i wouldn't practice on your self (kinda pointless) 

try to find an IV and the tubing and a bag, and just kinda practice setting it up and doing what you need to get the IV started... after you understand what you need to do with the bag... then just practice "sticking"... you know basically just stick the PT, watch for flashback, advance the cath, and then once you pull the needle out let go of pressure for a second and if blood flows out of the cath you know you are in the vein... you are good to go... pull the cath out and hold pressure.. 

just dont do this alone with another person that dosnt know what you are doing...


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 12, 2009)

andronein said:


> So I'm an EMT-B but I plan on going to paramedic school in the near future. My instructor from my Basic class showed me how to do an IV and I want to practice the skill. How did you guys practice? On friends or on yourself? Or did you just wait to do it on actual patients?



Want to get sued? Like keeping your certification or ever making it to Paramedic? Your instructor should had never shown how to start an IV unless you can perform one. Why? 

IV's are considered an invasive procedure and legally are considered as invasive alike a surgery. Complications can and do happen with just starting an IV everyday; unfortunately most medics are too stupid to recognize this. 

Any monkey can start an IV but it takes an educated person to understand the philosophy and reason behind and what happens and goes into the patients veins. Skills are only as good as the knowledge behind the person performing it. 

Wait, go to school obtain your formal education and perform them under clinical observation and clinical practice. Otherwise, you are just asking for problems. 

R/r 911


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## Medic744 (Aug 12, 2009)

We practiced on each other in class and then got all our required sticks in the ER or on the ambulance.  Depending on who you work with if they trust you and know you know what you are doing they may let you on them and your patients.


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## EMS49393 (Aug 12, 2009)

I agree with Rid on this one.  There are numerous complications that can occur with an IV and if you're looking to make EMS your career and continue on to paramedic, you might want to re-consider practicing a skill that is beyond your scope of practice.

I also agree that very few paramedics realize what can go wrong with an IV as well.  Of course, there is infiltration, but there is also the idea of opening up a very nice port of entry for any bad, nasty bug that will fit.  There is phlebitis, catheter shearing, scaring, bleeding, and even people that have accidentally hit arteries instead of veins.

No procedure is without its risks and it's important for an educated provider to be able to weigh those risks for the benefit of the patient.


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## rescue99 (Aug 12, 2009)

Yep, unless you are in a clinical setting it is considered practicing medicine without a license. Best to be patient and wait for class. Had a student at our school, thank goodness not mine, starting IV's outside of the classroom/clinical setting on somebody's kid no less!!!! Crazy fool.....He will never see a license.


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## BuddingEMT (Aug 12, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Yep, unless you are in a clinical setting it is considered practicing medicine without a license. Best to be patient and wait for class. Had a student at our school, thank goodness not mine, starting IV's outside of the classroom/clinical setting on somebody's kid no less!!!! Crazy fool.....He will never see a license.



Now that I think about it, there was somebody in my basic class doing that... Always bragging she could start IVs and intubate. If I'm ever dying in this area, I sure hope she's not the one who shows up in an ambulance. Who knows, she might crack my chest right then and there.


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## BuddingEMT (Aug 12, 2009)

EMS49393 said:


> I agree with Rid on this one.  There are numerous complications that can occur with an IV and if you're looking to make EMS your career and continue on to paramedic, you might want to re-consider practicing a skill that is beyond your scope of practice.
> 
> I also agree that very few paramedics realize what can go wrong with an IV as well.  Of course, there is infiltration, but there is also the idea of opening up a very nice port of entry for any bad, nasty bug that will fit.  There is phlebitis, catheter shearing, scaring, bleeding, and even people that have accidentally hit arteries instead of veins.
> 
> No procedure is without its risks and it's important for an educated provider to be able to weigh those risks for the benefit of the patient.



When my old instructor taught me to start an IV, he failed to mention any of this. I didn't realize all of the complications that could arise. Thank you for the information. I'll just have to wait until I have a background to go with the skill.


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## rescue99 (Aug 12, 2009)

andronein said:


> When my old instructor taught me to start an IV, he failed to mention any of this. I didn't realize all of the complications that could arise. Thank you for the information. I'll just have to wait until I have a background to go with the skill.



It is perfectly acceptable for an IC to to give an extra lesson or two after everything else is done, as long as the risks are well understood by both instructor and student alike. I'll show students the vocal cords for instance. If there happened to be a free couple of hours I might even let em play with an ETT. "Teaching" the skill starts with an overview of the systems and so on therefore, just letting a student become familiar is not "teaching." It's free time. I can't imagine an IC having so much time left over as to enable him/her to spend much time at all on non-essential skills though.

Bottom line....There are no rules prohibiting showing a skill however, there are definitely rules about students poking around on live things!! There are definitely rules about playing with toys outside of the classroom setting as well. Putting a needle in the hand that may come back to bite an IC in the tush is pretty risky. I will never show an MFR or Basic student how to start an IV... never never never! IC's need to be extremely prudent in what and how they use free time to introduce non-essential materials.


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## spisco85 (Aug 12, 2009)

I practice on IV tubing taped down. I even injected the IV bag with red gatorade so I could actually see the flashback. But then again I'm allowed access to that equipment since I am an intermediate.


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## rescue99 (Aug 12, 2009)

Buying / possessing IV supplies requires a prescription of approval from a medical director or the schools medical advisor...keep that in mind. Only those licensed to practice and or teach an IV are "supposed" to have access to the tools to start one.

I can buy start sets for example, but not fluids or needles unless I have obtained a medical prescription to possess these things from a medical director. At no time does a student have permission to take home and practice with invasive items such as needles.


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## LucidResq (Aug 13, 2009)

I was shown how to ET intubate on a dummy during basic school. This was not something taught to the entire class. I simply asked one of my EMT-P instructors that I grew close to in the class to show me how it was done, and he agreed as long as I understood that this was not a skill I would be EVER allowed to perform as an EMT-B, and I promised that I understood this and promised to never perform it. 

I wanted to be "taught" this skill out of curiosity as to how it's actually done, what equipment is used, potential complications, etc (we talked about many of those... like pneumothorax, vagal stimulation, right main stem bronchus intubation, oral/tooth trauma, etc) 

I wanted to know because we so often work alongside paramedics that utilize this skill, and I don't see what's wrong with "teaching" a skill as long as this is the goal. Of course I cannot and will not intubate, but I can grab the proper size/type of ET tube and blade, and prep the laryngoscope for the paramedic, check lung sounds afterwards... etc. 

We were also taught to spike bags and prep lines in EMT-B class.


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## GonnaBeEMT (Aug 13, 2009)

I was worried about starting IVs and such before I started medic classes also, but you shouldn't worry about getting ahead of the game and learning ALS skills, you will have plenty of time and opportunities to become proficient at those skills.  You are really cheating yourself and future patients if you don't learn the reasons why to, or not to preforn skills before you actually learn the skill.


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