# Off-Duty EMTs and DUI BAC threshold



## BigPoppaBlueDevil (Jan 10, 2014)

So my partner and I were talking yesterday and he said that one provision of our (California) Ambulance Driver License is that if we are *off-duty* (in our POV) and get pulled over on suspicion of DUI the BAC cut-off is .04 instead of .08. Anyone have experience or knowledge of this? He claims his source of info is a cop. I tried to look it up in the DMV website but found nothing conclusive. Not that I'm drinking and driving, I'd just like to know


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## mycrofft (Jan 10, 2014)

Ask your EMSA then come back with it. Legal info.


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## triemal04 (Jan 10, 2014)

Unless you have a CDL it's doubtful, though I suppose not impossible.


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## LACoGurneyjockey (Jan 10, 2014)

Though I'd never give you legal advice, I've never heard that and would be hesitant to take the word of a friend of a friend from a cop (who are by design very good and getting you to believe they know best).


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## TransportJockey (Jan 10, 2014)

With a CDL I have heard that it is the case, but we don't have ADLs out here


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## Rialaigh (Jan 10, 2014)

edit


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## mycrofft (Jan 10, 2014)

…and another thing.

Trying to play brinksmanship with blood alcohol (our more likely urine alcohol) levels is stupid. Don't drink when it will interfere with duty.

I went to a going-away party for our company manager as an invited guest once, and wound up putting on a uniform and doing a call since I barely drink ever.


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## unleashedfury (Jan 11, 2014)

Its probably not a set in stone law, but it should be. 

To be honest as a Public service worker you should be held to a higher standard, If you decide you want to consume alcohol for a night out on the town or at a private party that's your choice, but you should take in consideration a plan to get you home safely without the risk of a DUI. I have many times had a night out with friends or my spouse in which I ended up becoming the designated driver to me my career is not worth the risk.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 11, 2014)

If memory serves me correctly It's in the ca ambulance drivers handbook and they are pushing legislation to make it 0.00. Which it should be, as we should be setting an example for others


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## DrParasite (Jan 11, 2014)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> If memory serves me correctly It's in the ca ambulance drivers handbook and they are pushing legislation to make it 0.00. Which it should be, as we should be setting an example for others


huh????  why are you holding ambulance dirvers to a higher standard of duty?  why not expant it to include anyone who can be looked up to or seen as someone to emulate? parents, teachers, attorneys, cops, firefighters, politicians, models, entertainers, soldiers, any professional....

oh wait, that's absurd, as it the requirement to hold off duty ems emts to a higher standard than you would any citizen


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 11, 2014)

It's not just for "ambulance drivers" it's for anyone with a ambulance endorsement, fire or commercial B, bus driver cert, etcetc


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## mycrofft (Jan 13, 2014)

DrParasite said:


> huh????  why are you holding ambulance dirvers to a higher standard of duty?  why not expant it to include anyone who can be looked up to or seen as someone to emulate? parents, teachers, attorneys, cops, firefighters, politicians, models, entertainers, soldiers, any professional....
> 
> oh wait, that's absurd, as it the requirement to hold off duty ems emts to a higher standard than you would any citizen



Only if they are on standby.

 I agree that a 0.00 is a little overboard if you are off-duty, but I also think the current practice of getting :censored::censored::censored::censored:efaced as a consistent social pastime, for a medical professional, is either a sign of stress/mental illness issues, or sheer childishness. 

As they say, can't crawl with the pigs one minute then soar with the eagles the next.


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## Serberrus (Jan 13, 2014)

Drinking to excess is an american past time often associated with weddings, sports, friends coming into town etc. I don't really think anyone has the right to say we are more criminal for drinking responsibly (less than .08) and driving afterwards then anyone else.


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## alphamikefoxtrot (Jan 13, 2014)

Drinking and getting behind the wheel is a bad idea for more reasons than I can count, let alone for the reason that a DUI would make the prospect of future / ongoing employment in EMS unlikely.


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## brian328 (Jan 13, 2014)

i do not support drinking and driving at all, but how will the police officer know you are an EMT during a field sobriety test unless you tell him?


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 13, 2014)

As soon as they run your license it will come back and say what endorsements are attached


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## unleashedfury (Jan 13, 2014)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> As soon as they run your license it will come back and say what endorsements are attached



In California yes. 

In other states like mine where there is no Ambulance Endorsement when I am off duty in my POV you would have no idea what I do for a living. No stickers, plates, pretty lights nothing. the only way you would know what I do for a living is if I was stopped reporting to or from my job.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

My agency pays for taxis from a bar to a residence.

They figured out it was easier to pay for our cabs than to train new people constantly.

Call the comm center, taxi shows up, free ride home!


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## unleashedfury (Jan 14, 2014)

Your agency will pay for a Cab to get YOU home?? 

I have to pull teeth to get my uniform allowance :glare:

OTOH if you are out on the town or whatever you may be doing it should be your responsibility as a legal adult to realize that I am too impaired to get behind the wheel. It shouldn't take your employer to have to make that decision for you.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

unleashedfury said:


> Your agency will pay for a Cab to get YOU home??
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep.

Heard of them doing it for people on vacation too. 

We used to just be able to walk up I any cab from a specific company and just show our badge but people took advantage of that so now we have to call in. I love talking to the dispatchers at 3 am when I'm inebriated. Always go the extra mile to try and make their night a little funnier. 

It's cheaper than paying out all sorts of OT to FT medics (especially since we're expensive on OT with the raise we got 6 months ago) while you fork out thousands of dollars to train a new hire employee. 

I :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: a lot but we get treated pretty well. I can't list all the allowances and what not we get off the top of my head.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 14, 2014)

Yeah my knowledge is strictly in California.  

So in your state any joe blow off the street can just hop in and drive an ambulance eh?


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> Yeah my knowledge is strictly in California.
> 
> So in your state any joe blow off the street can just hop in and drive an ambulance eh?




You think reading that little book and passing that test really qualifies you any more than that joe blow? 

Seriously? That's like a 16 year old saying they can drive better than another 16 year old because "I have a license and you don't!!!"


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## unleashedfury (Jan 14, 2014)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> Yeah my knowledge is strictly in California.
> 
> So in your state any joe blow off the street can just hop in and drive an ambulance eh?



Up into recently that's 100% correct. 

Now they are requiring EVOC/EVDT as a prerequisite as per regional council requirements.

New requirements now are to take effect that the minimum standard for a legal BLS crew will be a EMT and a Emergency Responder, at which the Emergency responder must have EVOC/EVDT. They are pushing for legislature that requires that EMS Vehicle Operators will be required to apply for a EMSVO Liscense that recerts every 3 years. which requires you to meet certain training standards.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 14, 2014)

Robb said:


> You think reading that little book and passing that test really qualifies you any more than that joe blow?
> 
> Seriously? That's like a 16 year old saying they can drive better than another 16 year old because "I have a license and you don't!!!"



For CA actually yeah haha. The only reason it qualifies us more than joe blow is because we have the license which means we can legally drive the ambulance.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> For CA actually yeah haha. The only reason it qualifies us more than joe blow is because we have the license.




Don't be an arrogant prick you know what I mean.

:lol:


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 14, 2014)

Lol I agree the test isn't much, but you would be surprised how many  don't have a clue about state regulations in regards to laws pertaining to ambulance operations, legal requirements such as what lights by law have to be used during different situations and when an ambulance is considered out of service.  Among all the other things we are expected to know about hazmat etcetc


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

We do an in house, proprietary EVOC at time of hire and every 2 years.

Don't pass you can pick up your heck from HR on Friday.

Our EVOC involves a driving component as well as a classroom component.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 14, 2014)

Robb said:


> Don't be an arrogant prick you know what I mean.
> 
> :lol:



I have never been an arrogant prick h34r:

We have an EVOC class when we are hired. It's 8-16 hours of classroom and then 8 hours driving. We have online EVOC classes and tests we have to take yearly.


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## unleashedfury (Jan 14, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> I have never been an arrogant prick h34r:
> 
> We have an EVOC class when we are hired. It's 8-16 hours of classroom and then 8 hours driving. We have online EVOC classes and tests we have to take yearly.



This along with the endorsement are helpful. 

I think the classroom plus endorsement is beneficial because honestly how many of us know the rules of the road for operating a emergency vehicle when we take our first job? Or just break into EMS? 

The driving portion of the EVOC test I think is a little ridiculous it should be more focused on appropriately handling and how the vehicle handles vs. you need to drive through a slalom, a offset alley, a vehicle dock, and 100ft forwards and backwards straight. Also should be placed in the back and see how it feels to be driven appropriately and not appropriately I ran into way too many drivers hoping onto someones BLS bus who thought that hard braking and hard acceleration along with attempting to qualify for Daytona was acceptable as I Hang on for dear life.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

unleashedfury said:


> This along with the endorsement are helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Our course is similar to what you describe but longer. It's a pretty complex scoring system. There's no way to pass the test if you don't know how the vehicle handles so new hires usually spend time in the seat with an instructor learning how the vehicles (plural, we have Chevy and Ford chassis and both drive differently) before they can pass it.


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## SandpitMedic (Jan 14, 2014)

You want to hold me in the highest regard and to the highest standard, and enact laws to legally bind me to that standard? Even when I am completely off duty?

Then pay me enough for cab fare. Get the picture? (Or pay for it like Robb's co. Pretty cool)

EMR, EMT, Paramedic... Whatever... I'm a regular guy off the clock; I'm not a hero, and I'm surely not sitting around "on call" waiting to RickyRescue myself into a situation. My time is my time. So long as I am acting within accordance to the same laws and regs that every other citizen does then I should have nobody messing with me and certainly no legal or employment ramifications. 

Clearly, I am not advocating drinking and driving at any level. If you drink too much, don't drive. Period. Also, BAC is based on an average male of adult size, meaning .04 to you may be equivalent to a .08 to me depending on size, metabolism, weight, etc. Regardless of that tid-bit of info, I don't support reducing the legal limit just because of our line of work. 

School bus drivers, truck drivers, the UPS man, the postal service, the military, the police, the firemen, the doctors, the trash men, etc.etc.etc... I could go on. 

I'm done, I think I got my opinion and point accross.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

SandpitMedic said:


> You want to hold me in the highest regard and to the highest standard, and enact laws to legally bind me to that standard? Even when I am completely off duty?
> 
> Then pay me enough for cab fare. Get the picture? (Or pay for it like Robb's co. Pretty cool)
> 
> ...




Preach brother, preach. 

I have an identity outside of EMS.

You'd probably never guess what my job is if you met me outside of work.


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## mycrofft (Jan 14, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> I have never been an arrogant prick h34r:
> 
> We have an EVOC class when we are hired. It's 8-16 hours of classroom and then 8 hours driving. We have online EVOC classes and tests we have to take yearly.



Hey you two get a room!


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 14, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> Hey you two get a room!




I must be too young for that one.


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## mycrofft (Jan 14, 2014)

SandpitMedic said:


> You want to hold me in the highest regard and to the highest standard, and enact laws to legally bind me to that standard? Even when I am completely off duty?
> 
> Then pay me enough for cab fare. Get the picture? (Or pay for it like Robb's co. Pretty cool)
> 
> ...



Beer Math:
Naw, .08 is .08, but for a person with less mass or less enzymes to attack the alcohol, _a given amount of booze_ will yield a higher alcohol level for a smaller person than a large one. Oddly, some people experience more impairment at a lower alcohol level than others, so a big guy without the proper enzymes or maybe a history of brain injury may actually be more _impaired_ than a smaller person with the_ same or even slightly lower blood level._

I think basically we are all on the same page of the good book, and the choir's all thats listening.


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## SandpitMedic (Jan 15, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> Beer Math:
> Naw, .08 is .08, but for a person with less mass or less enzymes to attack the alcohol, _a given amount of booze_ will yield a higher alcohol level for a smaller person than a large one. Oddly, some people experience more impairment at a lower alcohol level than others, so a big guy without the proper enzymes or maybe a history of brain injury may actually be more _impaired_ than a smaller person with the_ same or even slightly lower blood level._
> 
> I think basically we are all on the same page of the good book, and the choir's all thats listening.



Agreed. I stand corrected. Same point, wrong road. Thanks for the info.


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## mycrofft (Jan 15, 2014)

SandpitMedic said:


> Agreed. I stand corrected. Same point, wrong road. Thanks for the info.



Been there done that


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