# Fire service taking the credit for EMS actions



## JPINFV (May 13, 2008)

Rookie firefighter delivers mother's day gift


> Firefighter Clay Brophy helped deliver the best Mother’s Day gift ever — helping a woman in labour bring her baby girl into the world.
> The department rookie joined fellow fire crews and paramedics called Saturday morning to a southeast home where a mother was in labour.
> With only six months on the job, the 25-year-old concedes he was initially nervous but elated when a baby girl was born about five minutes after they arrived, just in time for Mother’s Day.
> “I was ecstatic everything went well, I’m really happy ... I’ve never been to a delivery before,” said Brophy.





> *While paramedics did their job, Brophy supported the mother’s legs and helped talk her through the birth.*



http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=133638&sc=507


So, does this mean that paramedics should get to claim credit for putting out a structure fire if all they do is sit on scene and watch?


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## Flight-LP (May 13, 2008)

Must have been a slow news day...........

Typical smoke eater hero syndrome. The firefighter didn't do anything but sit there and consume oxygen. Even the Paramedics didn't really do anything out of the ordinary. Babies are born every minute of the day, MOM did the work, no one else......................


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## Ridryder911 (May 13, 2008)

Okay, maybe this should not really matter but how many times should we be allowed to be slapped in the face? 

Wow! He stood there and gawked, while others did the work (including the mom) and all because he drags a hose, he gets get credit? Why was he even mentioned? Seriously, why would a reporter or even why a Fire Service promote such an article? 

C'mon.. every one has a job to do in life, the sanitation department hauls off the trash, the firefighter puts out the fire.. one job not more important than another. One is not more a hero than another. Except one profession is attempting to justify existence more than the other... and unfortunately they profit and use propaganda to promote this. 

You do not see the respiratory therapist that suctions or performs hourly ventilator care get mentioned in the newspaper, or physical therapist that prevents contractures on burn patients or stroke patients get a blurb or by-line.. In reality, who really saved a life, and prevented illness and death? In comparison on a daily basis, who really saves more lives? ... 

I definitely am not a fire service basher, as one even that has a degree in it, and was a firefighter at one time; I do know the politics and agenda as well. Too much is emphasized on the hero syndrome, to prevent lay offs and increase budgetary means, when in comparison and reality, how many lives do they save? I do believe the public is sometimes dooped...

R/r 911


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## firecoins (May 13, 2008)

EMS are the special forces of emergency services.  We do things and don't get credit for it.  We are TOP SECRET.

Once a friend of mine purchesed membership to a gym.  He saw cops and firefighters got discounts.  He asked why EMS didn't get discounts.  He was told they were in same category as nurses.


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## BossyCow (May 13, 2008)

You guys see a burgular under every bed don't you? Sigh!


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## karaya (May 13, 2008)

Okay, being a journalist myself, I'm going to defend this article... somewhat. Fireman / paramedics delivering babies is nothing new to the media and certainly something many folks have read about or seen on the news at some point in their lives.

With the exception of the headline, I didn't feel the article gave strong indications that the rookie fireman was actually delivering the baby. The article gave credit to the whole crew with an emphasis toward the rookie; clearly to bring out some heart warming drama being his first delivery and all.

The rookie part did add some character to the article which otherwise would have been another "medics deliver kid piece." Of course being mother's day that just added all the more warmth to the article which on any other day probably would not have seen any print.

That's my take on it.


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## EMTrigger (May 13, 2008)

If you think about it, I wouldn't say the fire service took the credit for delivering the baby. It was more like who was still at the scene while EMS takes the mother and child to the hospital.


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## Airwaygoddess (May 13, 2008)

*The patient plus one!*

The bottom line is this.....  Mother and baby are doing fine, no matter who was there.....


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## Jango (May 13, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> So, does this mean that paramedics should get to claim credit for putting out a structure fire if all they do is sit on scene and watch?



The general public doesn't always see things correctly....the press, like any other entity can get things wrong even report things incorrectly.  It happens all the time.  Yes it is annoying.....but I promise you it will happen again. So smile the same way you do when you see someone bagging a pt the wrong way on E.R. and chuckle at the silliness of it.


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## Ridryder911 (May 13, 2008)

karaya said:


> Okay, being a journalist myself, I'm going to defend this article... somewhat. Fireman / paramedics delivering babies is nothing new to the media and certainly something many folks have read about or seen on the news at some point in their lives.
> 
> With the exception of the headline, I didn't feel the article gave strong indications that the rookie fireman was actually delivering the baby. The article gave credit to the whole crew with an emphasis toward the rookie; clearly to bring out some heart warming drama being his first delivery and all.
> 
> ...



Then even why mention fire service being there? Really, would they publish an electrician/plumber, sales clerk at Wal-Mart watched onward while mother and medics delivered the baby? No... why? Again, there has to be a HERO somewhere in the crowd. If it was not a sensational story, or really routine, why print or publish it? 

Does the public really and I mean really care that a rookie firefighter got to observe a live birth? Again, why sensationalize the lead or name of the article? Alike, posters described the difference in opinions from fire and EMS; is that we have a job (albeit really saving lives) and the deluge from the propaganda of the so called real heroes.. even though EMS calls is nearly four times the number of fires. You hardly ever see a Fire Service denying that they "save few lives" even few property or they are not the ones that "make the difference". There is no review for failed fire tactics; except internally. Unfortunately, with the new marketing and promotion to prevent cut backs, you see more and more PR. Every photo op and PR event. Not that it is not wise by-far, I would be concern too if my profession was in question, that the number is justified.

Shame, EMS has not caught on the same tactics, however it appears we are more humble. 

R/r 911


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## firecoins (May 13, 2008)

The news media is apart of the general public. They are unaware of the reality of emergency services and generally don't care enough to correct the misinfo.  It isn't their job to either.  There is no national organization for EMS who advoctes for EMS in the same way we see for other medical professions.  Nurses, MD and PAs all have organizations.


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## VentMedic (May 13, 2008)

This should be taken as a heart warming story that lets the public know there are people out there looking at them regardless of the titles.   The paper may have thought this type of story would be a "feel good about something" amongst the natural disaster and war headlines.  

Since many FFs are required to have at least EMT-B, they do have the basic training to assist in a normal birth.  The mother still does all the "labor".  

The reporter may not have had a play list for that municipality or county to know the proper terms since as we all know they can change.  One just has to look at JPINFV's website to know we have an identity problem amongst ourselves without dragging the public into it.   Calling the person a FF due to his/her uniform was probably easier than assuming any title.   If one is called an EMT in the paper when they are really a Paramedic...disaster.  Or, being called a Paramedic when they are an EMT or EMT-I....horrific.

You also have the areas or even the majority of the state, like Florida, where Fire and EMS are the same service. All you may see are fire department trucks at the scene.  

As many have read in the recent threads, the Paramedic certificate is used to gain an entry level FF job.   Since Florida and a few other areas run ALS engines, that is what the public sees when they call for an emergency.  Also, many paramedics in some FDs will say they are a FF leaving off the Paramedic although some do like the sound of "Fire Medic".  You can also ask many of the older FFs (in Florida) about their past and most will say they were a Paramedic at one time but only spent a couple years on a med unit before getting transferred to a nice engine in the suburbs.   Since many of them were trained as Paramedics OJT in the back room of a fire station, very little effort is spent on a medical education.   Thus, once that step on the ladder is achieved, it is the easiest "cert" to give up.


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## Ridryder911 (May 13, 2008)

I agree with you Vent on many items. Ironically many Fire Services around here is removing the EMT requirement finding out most EMT's cert expires before they can be hired, as well most put on their own EMT courses now. Also in my area, very few Fire Services provide EMS and do not wish to be involved more than a first response only. 

Even now, Stillwater which is home for O.S.U.; one of the worlds leading Fire Service University is attempting to remove EMS from the fire department; where as OKC is attempting to "prep" themselves with hiring preferential for Paramedics. 

The only advantage for EMS personnel to consider fire is the benefit package. Very few fire based EMS are progressive in EMS, again a company can only wear so many hats & be proficient. Fire protection itself is a full time business along with hazmat, etc... 

I do believe EMS is slowly becoming a profession. It will have to compete against competitors such as Fire Service and other health careers. At this time, it is near impossible to negotiate; even though most fire recruits do not require any prior formal education. We have very little ammunition to go against a long tradition, union lobbying profession. I do believe we will someday be a third service, and alike our neighbors up North will utilize Fire Service as it should be.. fire suppression and first response only. 

R/r 911


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## VentMedic (May 13, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Ironically many Fire Services around here is removing the EMT requirement finding out most EMT's cert expires before they can be hired, as well most put on their own EMT courses now. Also in my area, very few Fire Services provide EMS and do not wish to be involved more than a first response only.



Florida's FDs are still taking over more private companies.  Near Ocala, the EMTs and Paramedics from the private service are given a time limit to get their FF certificate if they want to remain.  Many of these employees have several years as Paramedics for the former EMS ambulance service.  The same is happening in a small town in SW Florida.  Of course this is not new. At one time Florida had many Ma and Pa type services, many of which were excellent ALS ambulances.  We also had quite a few Public Safety services which had FF, LEO and EMT-P all rolled into one person.  As the population grew, a choice had to be made.  Fire had the biggest representation to appeal to the tax payers.  

Destruction by fire is also an event many fear more than a heart attack.  Most people are in denial about their health as if we haven't seen that by the American lifestyle.  Young people are invincible.  But fire is feared.  You can turn on the news tonight and see the Palm Bay area featured.   This will also be a bad year for California with the fire potential and water rationing.   Availability of a fire engine and fire prevention are the topics at the coffee houses for all age groups rather than "I hope there is an ambulance around when I break my neck on my skate board" or "I'm over weight and smoke so I hope the paramedics are nearby for my stroke or heart attack".   People don't like to think about their own mortality and will ignore it until they are faced with a health crisis.  On the other hand, even though we say material things can be replaced, we fear losing those items.    

As I said in another thread, I would rather the person who shows up for my first MI to have spent their training time perfecting their medical knowledge and procedures.  Likewise, if my house is on fire, I could care less if you know how to start an IV.  I want you to have spent all your free time improving your FF techniques. 

On a sidenote now that Rid brought it up: 

I was in the SF Bay area a few months ago and got to witness the chaos when Oakland, CA decided to drop the EMT from their hiring process.

http://www.firerescue1.com/careers/articles/319808-Calif-department-waives-EMT-requirement/

*Calif. department waives EMT requirement*



> OAKLAND, Calif. — The Oakland Fire Department distributed hundreds of fire-fighter-training applications Monday, and will likely do so again today, after waiving a requirement that applicants be certified as emergency medical technicians.
> 
> The department hopes that dropping the EMT requirement will boost the number of home-grown sons and daughters working in the fire department.
> 
> ...



One would have to know Oakland to truly appreciate that last statement.


*Oakland Fire Reopens Application Process*
http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/news/Oakland_Fire_Reopens_Application.html
Harry Harris, Kristin Bender 
Inside Bay Area (California) 
2007 Dec 4 


> OAKLAND, Calif. -- City officials announced Monday they will now accept applications from as many as 2,000 fire department hopefuls who were turned away Saturday in a hiring process dogged by complaints of unfairness and massive disorganization.
> 
> Thousands of men and women showed up at Frank H. Ogawa Plaza to apply for two dozen coveted Oakland Fire Department jobs. Earlier in the week, the city handed out about 7,600 applications for the positions, but said only the first 1,000 applicants would be accepted.
> 
> Many applicants lined up overnight to be first in line Saturday, but because of the way the applicants were randomly selected to submit paperwork, the city, for a first time in recent memory, will allow those turned away to reapply. Fire Chief Daniel Farrell said Monday that no one in the city is happy with how the chaotic hiring process unfolded.


http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/news/Oakland_Fire_Reopens_Application.html



> There was already widespread concern that there would be droves of applicants because the city is no longer requiring an emergency medical technician certificate to apply -- a move some thought might be preferential treatment.
> 
> “I just don’t understand why they opened it up to every Tom, :censored::censored::censored::censored: and Harry,” said Nahm, 43, of Brentwood. “There were guys showing up who are 50 years old without any experience and then there were guys that looked like they just got off the party bus.”


http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/news/Oakland_Fire_Reopens_Application.html


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## karaya (May 13, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Then even why mention fire service being there? Really, would they publish an electrician/plumber, sales clerk at Wal-Mart watched onward while mother and medics delivered the baby? No... why? Again, there has to be a HERO somewhere in the crowd. If it was not a sensational story, or really routine, why print or publish it?
> 
> Does the public really and I mean really care that a rookie firefighter got to observe a live birth? Again, why sensationalize the lead or name of the article? Alike, posters described the difference in opinions from fire and EMS; is that we have a job (albeit really saving lives) and the deluge from the propaganda of the so called real heroes.. even though EMS calls is nearly four times the number of fires. You hardly ever see a Fire Service denying that they "save few lives" even few property or they are not the ones that "make the difference". There is no review for failed fire tactics; except internally. Unfortunately, with the new marketing and promotion to prevent cut backs, you see more and more PR. Every photo op and PR event. Not that it is not wise by-far, I would be concern too if my profession was in question, that the number is justified.
> 
> ...


 

The sensationalizing the headline for the "tease" is part of the business. It is designed to get the reader to take notice and read the article. 

Let's examine it. "Firefighter Helps Deliver Baby" -- boring, move on. "Rookie Firefighter Delivers Mother's Day Gift" -- much better headline, although not quite accurate for everyone's taste here, it will get readers to take pause.

Something that caught my attention in the article was the fact there were not any quotes from the mother nor was her name used. I'm only speculating here, but being a former PIO myself, this article has all the makings of a submitted press release. 

It is not up to the media to keep the public informed of EMS. I've been critical of EMS for not being more aggressive with the media as a means to promote their operations. As I have traveled throughout the United States photographing various EMS providers, I've seen many EMS providers squander opportunities to get on the evening news or morning paper. Clearly fire services have utilized their information officer structure with positive media results and this is something many EMS operations need to jump on the band wagon with.


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## VentMedic (May 13, 2008)

karaya said:


> I've seen many EMS providers squander opportunities to get on the evening news or morning paper. Clearly fire services have utilized their information officer structure with positive media results and this is something many EMS operations need to jump on the band wagon with.




Unfortunately, again in Florida, we also had those that sell their information to the tabloids.   The media have also be reluctant to approach a Paramedic on scene if they are doing the broadcast live in that they may make too much of a statement before the family can be notified.   We have had a few very memorable incidents with one Miami news station and loose lipped Paramedics that brought sensationalized news and pain to the families before official notification could be made.

A good pubic relations officer is invaluable for correct news releases.


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## karaya (May 13, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> Unfortunately, again in Florida, we've also those had those sell their information to the tabloids. The media have also be reluctant to approach a Paramedic on scene if they are doing the broadcast live in that they may make too much of a statement before the family can be notified. We have had a few very memorable incidents with one Miami news station and loose lipped Paramedics that brought sensationalized news and pain to the families before official notification could be made.
> 
> A good pubic relations officer is invaluable for correct news releases.


 
I hear what you are saying Vent and I agree with your ascertain that Paramedics (line medic) should not be talking to the media.  Leave that for a well trained Public Information Officer.


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## Ridryder911 (May 14, 2008)

karaya said:


> I hear what you are saying Vent and I agree with your ascertain that Paramedics (line medic) should not be talking to the media.  Leave that for a well trained *Public Information Officer*.



Something that almost every fire call has available. Most Officers have had some form of PIO training incorporated, so they are happy to talk to the press. Again, in comparison there is no HIPPA or privacy law restricting much about a working fire (except legal issues, that can be easily avoided). Again, promotion of themselves is able to be made. In reality who is to judge if firefighting techniques were adequately performed and if the situation was handled appropriately? A fire department could easily blunder a fire scene and no one would know the difference, something I have seen multiple times. The public and even the owner would never know. 

Again, nothing against fire service, rather something maybe we in EMS should learn to toot our own horn more ofter. Maybe, the public would recognize our existence and needs.

R/r 911


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## bonedog (May 14, 2008)

Around here the fire aren't dispatched on maternity calls. 

I believe the logic is the baby will deliver as they have for eon's so why have 5-6 extra stranger's about.


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## Jango (May 14, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Maybe, the public would recognize our existence and needs.R/r 911



Yes we should!  Firecoins was kinda right, we are the Special Forces of EMS....however we need to have a better public image.  Don't get me wrong....I am not saying we have a bad one....we just need to advertise better.  We can be EMS ninjas 24/7....however the public needs to hear our story too!


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## VentMedic (May 14, 2008)

Our Fire Rescues and some county EMS agencies have very good Public/Media Relations department so we do get the publicity.   Of course, Florida's population must stay informed with the older population, fixed incomes and tax reform amendments.  It is a demanding audience but we achieve most of our good PR through public education  to anyone who wants to know something.  A known presence in the community helps keep people informed rather than waiting for your picture in the paper.   Newspaper articles usually just end up as fish wrap. 

Miami-Dade 
http://www.miamidade.gov/mdfr/newsroom_media_staff.asp

Lee County EMS
http://www.lee-ems.com/ems/public_information.htm


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## Guardian (May 14, 2008)

Public image is everything in our society.  I've been trying to make this point for years.  I'm even an advocate for the use of professional PR firms.  The investment is money well spent in the long run.  The last time we had great PR was the show _Emergency!_

There are few organizations better at PR than the fire department.  This is because of the type of leadership training they get, their natural advantage with political ties, and the fact they physically risk their life every once in a while.  

We as ems providers haven't been willing to put in the effort, do our homework, and have been happy with the status quo.  Don't come crying to me when the fire and police get better press, I've got no sympathy for you.  Until we decide to grow into a real profession, we are always going to be playing second fiddle.  People like rid and vent know this, because both are in real professions--not glorified-stepping stone-volunteer-hobbies. 

The quality of our work must demand respect.  That's the only way we are ever going to get it.  Take nurses for example.  Nobody ever wanted to give nurses any real credit or respect.  It was great having nursing slaves to order around and treat like crap.  They did most of the work and the doctors got most of the credit and money.  Well not anymore, because now the quality of their profession simply demands respect.

Okay, I’ll quit rambling on and go back into hiding, good discussion though, I’m enjoying it.


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## mark111 (May 22, 2008)

I have been a medic for quite a while now , and as we all know ems is only involved in scences like this to ADD to the call volume of the local fire depts.
This way when its comes time for fire to get more money its not a problem.


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## mikeylikesit (May 28, 2008)

Grrrr. i know that i am late on this one but i want to voice my opinion regardless. EMS workers make less money, take on more hours and receive far less thank you's than any other civil service position. But remember the first day of EMT class when they told you all this and you still said "thats fine I'm not in it for the recognition or glory" no cop and firefighters prevent life from being taken and that's nice, but EMS can resurrect life that would otherwise make the obituaries instead of the front page with a Firefighter standing over the victim that you just saved. Oh well, firefighters do work hard to.


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