# Armed EMS. How many of you carry?



## MiddleEastMedic101

Where I worked (Israel), we often have to respond to terrorist incidents, violent scenes, and the normal bad neighborhoods. There have been incidents where EMS personal have been shot or shot at. 

Some of our guys are issued weapons, and/or have personal weapons and carry licenses. We also all have vests and helmets in the rig. Don't forget, most of our guys are military trained and in the reserves.

How many of you or your agencies go armed?


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## medicdan

I have worked in Israel, where many Hoveshim and Paramedics are armed, but that just wouldn't fly in the US (or I suspect anywhere outside the Middle East). We see ourselves as health professionals, and to a certain extent healers, and distance ourselves from police and military-- and prefer to heal, not hurt, or at least shouldn't be places where we are in danger...

The helmets and vests in ambulances are for piguim, not everyday use (I hope!)... although again, EMTs and medics in some areas do wear vests on a daily basis. 

There are a few isolated Tactical medic programs, where indivuduals are often cross-trained as LEOs and assist with SWAT-style missions, but they are generally very isolated staff.


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## DesertMedic66

None. I have yet to hear of an EMS agency or fire department that arms its employees. Also I have yet to hear of anywhere that would allow a EMT/Medic to carry a weapon on duty (aside from a knife for everyday tasks). 

I heave heard of a couple of areas issuing stab vests. 

And the only helmets we have are ones we wear on car accidents.


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## Chris07

When I visited Utah two years ago, I noticed that the local Sheriff's department provided First-on ALS. I was intrigued that most...if not all of the Sheriff patrol cars I saw had "Paramedic" printed on the side. 

I believe that PD based EMS is the closest thing to armed EMS that we have in the states. Even then, I'm sure that _true_ PD based EMS systems are rarer than rocking horse poo.



firefite said:


> I heave heard of a couple of areas issuing stab vests.



Maybe it's only an LA County thing but I recall reading that bullet-proof vests for EMS are required for deploying in areas of civil unrest. Perhaps this was added after the '92 riots?


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## mm505

Back in the 80's, I knew a few medics who carried, especially on the south side of Atlanta!  No matter what anyone says, Atlanta has some areas where if you is the wrong skin color, you will most likely be getting picked up by an ambulance.


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## STXmedic

Lol I know guys that still do! It's just not typically smiled upon


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## DrParasite

Don't go armed.  don't really want to.  There is a policy forbidding firearms when working on the ambulance.

I know a couple of guys who do carry firearms, who work EMS part time and are full time LEO or CO.  it's always concealed, and if you don't know they are carrying, you wouldn't even guess where.  And they carry for self defense only, they aren't going to be entering any hostile situations.  

We also have some FBI personnel who are paramedics, who do ridealongs with us, and are exempt from the no fire arms policy.

Some PD based EMS systems issue Bullet proof vests, and I know one used to require them be worn anytime you are on duty.  

let LEO do their job, and secure all scenes.  and if you need to stage for 5-45 minutes on violent scenes until PD gets there, so be it, my safety comes first.


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## MiddleEastMedic101

@Dan 

Were you MDA too??? I was in Beersheva 2008-2009 Oferet Yetzuka.


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## patput

Chris07 said:


> When I visited Utah two years ago, I noticed that the local Sheriff's department provided First-on ALS. I was intrigued that most...if not all of the Sheriff patrol cars I saw had "Paramedic" printed on the side.
> 
> I believe that PD based EMS is the closest thing to armed EMS that we have in the states. Even then, I'm sure that _true_ PD based EMS systems are rarer than rocking horse poo.



Police based EMS in Tonawanda, NY. I'm not sure exactly how it all works, but I don't believe the medics are LEO's as well. Seems to just be an ALS fly car service that is affiliated with the PD.


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## medicdan

MiddleEastMedic101 said:


> @Dan
> 
> Were you MDA too??? I was in Beersheva 2008-2009 Oferet Yetzuka.



Yes, I was in Herzliya in 2007, as a Metnadev "Hu"L", and was grandfathered in as a Hovesh Bacheir, working on Natan, although only took the 60-hour course. 
I miss MDA, and look forward to going back soon...


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## MiddleEastMedic101

Oh MDA... Those were the times. Oferet Yetzuka, it was a blast...


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## mycrofft

*Prior thread/survey*

http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=14014


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## SliceOfLife

Some states have specific laws preventing ambulance personnel from carrying weapons, like CT.  I've searched the MGLs and can't find any prohibitions in MA.  I'm curious about other states.  

Also, in MA you can't carry on school grounds or on federal property.  So what would you do if you had to respond to a school or some other such place?

Or states that have binding signage laws?  Now you could be liable for criminal trespass.


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## Akulahawk

While I usually carry, I normally don't while working any kind of EMS job. That doesn't mean that I'm unarmed... just not with a firearm at the time. My CCW allows me to carry almost anywhere, however, I can not carry in Federal Buildings or Courthouses. Note I didn't include schools or school grounds in that list... Prisons, jails, etc are also no-go for security reasons. While I can legally carry at school and in clinicals, I run risk of being expelled from school/program for doing so, so I don't normally carry there.


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## MassEMT-B

SliceOfLife said:


> Some states have specific laws preventing ambulance personnel from carrying weapons, like CT.  I've searched the MGLs and can't find any prohibitions in MA.  I'm curious about other states.
> 
> Also, in MA you can't carry on school grounds or on federal property.  So what would you do if you had to respond to a school or some other such place?
> 
> Or states that have binding signage laws?  Now you could be liable for criminal trespass.



The only armed EMS service I know of in Mass is Mattapoisett, but they are on duty police officers. I was just looking on their website and you can actually see an armed officer with his EMT patch facing the camera.


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## Mountain Res-Q

LOCALLY...

Ambulance  =  Never seen it.  The company I worked for once-upon-a-time had a strict policy against it.

Fire  =  I know of several Firefighters (not prevention officers) who carry as appropriate.

SAR  =  As long as it is done legally, the unofficial policy has always been "don't ask... don't tell..." and I do know of members (non-LE) who carry.  Given some of things I have run across in the woods (not animals, which scare me not), I am not against it...

Medical Event Standbys  =  I know of several EMTs that carry legally based on the event and location of the event.  Again...  "don't ask... don't tell..." 

PERSONALLY...

I have guns (in preparation for the Zombie Apocalypse)... I generally think it is a bad idea to carry when acting as a Medical Provider in the United States (minus Detroit and Oakland)... however, knowing that many EMTs and Medics carry nationwide (far more than most would like to believe) and not knowing of any incidents where EMTs or Medics have discharged their weapons on duty can lead to one of two conclusions for me:

A.  It is okay to carry; that most objections to it can be refuted with historical data from those that do carry and do not shoot.

B.  Why carry?  No EMTs or Medics have ever needed it... yet...  (although I do subscribe to the "condom theory" = Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!)

Working Ambulance, I would never have carried...  That said...  I do not work ambulance anymore...  never assume I am not armed...


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## mycrofft

EMTLIFE's premier "black hole" subject. An example of why we need to be able to post a poll but lock the comments.


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## OODAsquirrel

The state laws regarding carry here have recently changed and ambulance services have not caught up. There are LOTS of people getting licensed to carry and lots of places that haven't banned the practice so there is no state law prohibiting it and no company policy prohibiting it either.

That being said, I do not carry on the ambulance. For one, I don't have a good means of concealing when in uniform as I most certainly wouldn't tempt fate by going openly. 

It doesn't mean I'm without options. I always have a neck knife on and a kubaton in my pocket. But these items are for personal defense, not any kind of terrorist response.


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## AnthonyM83

I don't know if locking comments would be best as new information arises and conversations go different ways. Just like you always look for recent studies even if old ones have been done.

As far as the Los Angeles civil unrest comment...I've heard similar things. Also know local EMS Agency has distributed vests to the local ambulance providers for that case.

I've also worked with partners who carried "informally"...but that was also the area where people had been held on gunpoint a few times within a couple years period...


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## RocketMedic

I carry in the military, but not in civilian contexts. Its hard to explain why you had to shoot someone in New Mexico.


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## medicnick83

We not allowed to carry 'weapons' but many of us carry 'knives' which double as a knife which is used to cut like seat belts etc.

So I'm assuming if they were asked why they have it, it would be the "we use it as a rescue tool" but it can be used for defense.


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## epipusher

If we were allowed to carry hand guns, would some ems colleagues hang it from their rear view mirror?


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## mycrofft

Locally it used to be that deputy coroners (which could be ANYONE) could get a concealed carry permit because ostensibly they could be on a scene where the bad guys were still hanging out in the crowd of lookie-lous. That got quashed, and no uptick in duty-relared incidnts or deaths as far as I know.


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## systemet

medicnick83 said:


> We not allowed to carry 'weapons' but many of us carry 'knives' which double as a knife which is used to cut like seat belts etc.
> 
> So I'm assuming if they were asked why they have it, it would be the "we use it as a rescue tool" but it can be used for defense.



Just a thought here.  Look at where medicnick is working, and go google the crime statistics.  Consider for a second that it's considered to be a much nicer city than Johannesburg.  Pause.  Maybe google the crime statistics for your own region.  Compare.


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## medic417

SliceOfLife said:


> Also, in MA you can't carry on school grounds or on federal property.  So what would you do if you had to respond to a school or some other such place?
> 
> Or states that have binding signage laws?  Now you could be liable for criminal trespass.



Ambulance lock box.  Not complicated.


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## DarkStarr

I would carry if I was allowed.  I do wish we were allowed to at least keep a taser locked up with the narcs though.


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## RocketMedic

I don't want handguns in the possession of people who are tossed routinely into stressful circumstances without adequate training. That knocks a lot of EMS personnel out.


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## Steveb

I'm completely against guns I understand the dangerous that front line  EMS face every day I've had co-wokers attacked but all it would take is an untrained trigger happy to discharge a gun at someone. Which would them cause a lot of trust issues with the public viewing  EMT's. I however believe in pepper spray and teasers as those are a great non leatheal option . And also in most big cities where the dangers are common you can generally call police back up and they are there fast.But then again in Israel it's a different story.


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## Handsome Robb

medic417 said:


> Ambulance lock box.  Not complicated.



Police are exempt. If EMS providers were allowed to carry I'd be willing to bet that we would be exempt as well.

With that said, I do not support EMS providers carrying. No sir.


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## chief2

When I pull a night shift my Crossbreed holds a Para Warthog strong side with my uniform shirt tucked in. I know I'm not supposed to and I could lose my EMS certifications for doing it but I'd rather go home alive in one piece and unemployed than have a a civil service flag draped over my coffin and be known as someone who always followed the rules.


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## texas

I never carry when I am on a call or at the station. I do carry quite a bit as a civilian.

A few people mentioned combined police/EMS earlier - Highland Park, TX does that. They have you work rotating shifts as a cop, a firefighter, and a paramedic. I have heard that the cops have bunker gear in the trucks of their patrol cars (don't know that for a fact).

Weird to see cops with a paramedic patch...


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## Handsome Robb

chief2 said:


> When I pull a night shift my Crossbreed holds a Para Warthog strong side with my uniform shirt tucked in. I know I'm not supposed to and I could lose my EMS certifications for doing it but I'd rather go home alive in one piece and unemployed than have a a civil service flag draped over my coffin and be known as someone who always followed the rules.



I still want to know how many EMS/FD personnel are killed or severely injured every year in violent crimes while on duty where a firearm would have helped their cause. 

I still see absolutely no reason that an EMS provider should be carrying while on duty, if you are in a situation where you need a gun you've done something extremely wrong. 

To each their own I guess. 

Side note: If you're going to openly talk about violating company policies/rules I wouldn't do it on a public forum...also what happens to your family when you lose your job and no other company will hire you because you violated a "no firearm" policy at a previous place of employment? I'm not trying to be a **** I just fail to see your reasoning. 

I work in a less than stellar city, sure it's not the most dangerous by any means but we have plenty of violent crimes every year and spend plenty of time in less than desirable/safe areas.


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## mycrofft

Here's an epiphany I just had: insist on safe(r) working environments. No medical response without law enforcement response in designated areas or certain types of calls. That would include an officer riding back in the vehicle if the pt may become or is violent. Another step on the way closer to a more-professional working environment, a little less Dodge City.
. 
PS: looking back at a some responses here and elsewhere:

1. Knives: Are you trained,  and both physically and psychologically prepared to use a knife to fight someone ?  Not a classroom exercise with your sense, but an instantaneous dirty attack? Maybe by a much l;arguer person, under the influence, etc etc?

2. Locking the weapon up: if you had the time for aforethought to go get the hardware, it will be argued that you had the aforethought to retreat or use other means to defuse a life/limb threat.

When anyone is shot by a law officer, lawsuits very often ensue, (pun unintended) and an officer is investigated by the department for job or legal infractions, while on administrative leave. If an EMT were to kill or even injure someone, the investigators will BE the police, then maybe a grand jury. And will the Fraternal Protective Order of EMT's and the company cover for legal bills (even if you win)? I know, better home alive then dead and following rules, but also unless the job and government infrastructure is not there to support for actions, you're just one more civilian "running around" with a weapon asking for trouble.


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## chief2

Disheartening to think that some folks believe an armed citizen is "running around asking for trouble". These are the same people who think only the police should have guns, until they need one. When the seconds count the police are minutes away.

I don't need to know what the stats show about any of us killed or severly injured in the line of duty; one is too many. I do agree that we should get a LEO on every call, now convince city hall of the same and I'll leave my gun in my locker. It's pretty sad when the ER physician is wearing a ballistic vest under his shirt in the ER because the powers that be haven't caught up to the culture we're living in. The final statement about what will I do if I can't find a job and so on and so forth, I offer this: See the letters after my name. If I'm not convicted of a F2 or higher I'm keeping my job at my primary employer where propofol and norepinephrine are the most dangerous things I need to keep an eye on.

I can't believe I forgot to mention this tidbit:
Our service is 911 dispatched but, due to the high volumes and number of units in service at any given time, we have our own dispatchers located at our primary base of operations who assign calls based on location and availablility. They are considered our shift supervisors. Their supervisor is the operations manager. A few weeks back he had a supervisor's meeting where he asked if all the evening and night shift sups owned a handgun. They all did. He then asked that, for their "safety and the security of the organization", that they carry concealed while on duty at the front desk and to start keeping the base locked down (no more open garage doors in the summer, exit door to smoking hut locked, etc.). That he didn't offer a specific reason and when questioned he said he "couldn't go into it" just solidifies that I will be carrying. 

All of us at the base have received threats because we staged out of a scene on an OD and the pt died while waiting for PD or we were preceived as responding too slow for some gang banger who got stabbed. I'm not going to not stage out but I'm not going to go for a "fall victim" or "dizziness" and get clubbed, stabbed, or shot. (hmm, I guess the reported 20 y/o M fall victim on the side of a house that turned out to be multiple GSW to the ABD was me "doing something extremely wrong" when I walked up on scene).

We've had not 1, not 2, but 3 seperate incidents in the past 5 years where we drew fire. Once was for a trap set by a suspect for police and he opened up on the cops as they arrive on scene. Both officer's were struck and the responding units said the scene was secure and were bringing the officers to us at the corner of X and Y streets. The medic unit was then fired upon and actually fled the scene in reverse and struck a pole. Another was EMS repond along with fire for a structure box that turned into someone shooting at first responders; he was shot by the first arriving officer. Finally we were treating a victim of chid abuse, while the police were in the front room with the victim's mother, the father (and suspect) re-entered the house from the rear via the kitchen, armed himself with a kitchen knife and attempted to abscond with the child who was in the care of EMS in the dining room. PD tasered his ***.

So in your town where the crime consists of 2 drunks duking it out in the street on a Saturday night, DUI crashes with fleeing suspects, and domestic abuse when Bubba slaps his wife again I can see clearly how you may not understand why I would want to carry at work. If I was in your position I'd argue the same point, but I'm not you and you're certainly not me.


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## DrParasite

chief2 said:


> A few weeks back he had a supervisor's meeting where he asked if all the evening and night shift sups owned a handgun. They all did. He then asked that, for their "safety and the security of the organization", that they carry concealed while on duty at the front desk and to start keeping the base locked down (no more open garage doors in the summer, exit door to smoking hut locked, etc.). That he didn't offer a specific reason and when questioned he said he "couldn't go into it" just solidifies that I will be carrying.


so if one of the supervisors was carrying, and did need to use his personal firearm, would the management back him up with the investigation and civil suit occurred?  I'm not against securing facilities, but having a supervisory person ask people to carry concealed due to security seems to be a huge liability for an agency to take, especially since they aren't even willing to let those who they are asking to pick up arms know what is going on or why they need to be carrying.





chief2 said:


> We've had not 1, not 2, but 3 seperate incidents in the past 5 years where we drew fire.


So assuming your agency gets 20 calls a day (probably a very low number if you work for a decent sized agency), that means you had a total of 36500 calls over the past 5 years, and out of those 36500, on 3 you drew fire... that is 0.00821% out of all your calls resulted in you drawing fire.  That's a pretty small percentage, especially if you are using that as your justification for carrying.


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## Tigger

DrParasite said:


> So assuming your agency gets 20 calls a day (probably a very low number if you work for a decent sized agency), that means you had a total of 36500 calls over the past 5 years, and out of those 36500, on 3 you drew fire... that is 0.00821% out of all your calls resulted in you drawing fire.  That's a pretty small percentage, especially if you are using that as your justification for carrying.



This is the important part. At the end of the day, it just doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers to routinely have EMS carrying firearms if this is the route to justification. One probably has a better chance of getting shot just walking through the same area as a private citizen than if they were on an ambulance.


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## abckidsmom

Tigger said:


> This is the important part. At the end of the day, it just doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers to routinely have EMS carrying firearms if this is the route to justification. One probably has a better chance of getting shot just walking through the same area as a private citizen than if they were on an ambulance.



This is the key, I agree.  I don't feel scared in places when I'm there in a uniform, with an ambulance, treating people with respect and maintaining situational awareness.

Same place, just me in my regular clothes?  Yeah, no.


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## SFox3325

Not armed with a fiearms, but we can carry OC (pepper spray), and have the option of wearing a vest.  I do most of the time, under the uniform shirt.


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## djemt2001

Our state constitution allows all employees to carry firearms. A lot so carry firearms, but it’s based off their right. Dispatchers carry, animal control, EMS, librarians, electrical maintenance. You never now who is armed.


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## KingCountyMedic

I keep about half a dozen Shuriken in the airway bag and carry a small pair of Nunchaku in my bunker coat "just in case"


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## CALEMT

It’s amazing what a little bit of epi and some CPR will do to a dead thread.


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## ffemt8978

CALEMT said:


> It’s amazing what a little bit of epi and some CPR will do to a dead thread.


True, but I've always viewed it as at least they used the search feature.


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## Akulahawk

ffemt8978 said:


> True, but I've always viewed it as at least they used the search feature.


It would have been buried sufficiently that it would have taken a long time to find it without the search feature being used. Now that being said, since this thread was started, quite a few more states now (technically) allow some form of carrying a firearm in public. Hawaii is still (probably) the most strict by far, but many states are now doing a permitless "constitutional carry" approach. My own particular county went from being VERY restrictive to very permissive in 2010 and now there are probably something like 12,000 (or a lot more) people in this county that have a CCW license with very FEW problems. About 3-4 years ago CCW holders were exempt from prohibitions regarding carrying their firearms on school/college/university campuses. A Vice Principal who was found out ended up causing a knee-jerk reaction (nobody ever injured before or since by a CCW holder) which removed that exemption. 

I would carry at work except for a few issues: One is I wear scrubs. Standard IWB won't work. Two is I'd want to wear armor rated for what I carry (and the armor would be obvious). Three is that I value my job (along with the bennies) such that if I were to carry there and was discovered, I'd be fired. If I were to be injured/killed while working, not being armed basically allows my beneficiaries to collect the payout. This doesn't mean I don't carry while not working. Job has no say over this when I'm not on the clock. Four: we have lots of security and we can get many PD and SO officers there very quickly if needed. Five, I do have equipment that can be used as a weapon and small folding pocket knives aren't looked at as "weapons" because they're often used tools...


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## Peak

I don't when I'm working for the hospital. For one we always have armed police officers on staff from the district we are in, I feel safe enough when they are here. Second I'm fearful that I will lose or forget my gun when being carried in a concealed method (I have some very light weight and low profile handguns ) that I personally fear myself dropping a gun and not realizing only to be found by a kid or family later with Ill consequence. 

When I'm in the field or on my personal time I carry whenever I can. 

The reality blends a balance between risk and benefit. Back in my fire days I'd be happy to work without a gun (and even today if I still worked there). Our district was safe and of essentially zero violent crime. 

Today the hospital I work for is downtown in a major city, I've treated plenty of adults and kids that have been shot or stabbed. If I'm doing anything in the area and I don't have one of our police officers with me I definitely have a gun on me.


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## DragonClaw

medicdan said:


> Yes, I was in Herzliya in 2007, as a Metnadev "Hu"L", and was grandfathered in as a Hovesh Bacheir, working on Natan, although only took the 60-hour course.
> I miss MDA, and look forward to going back soon...



What...?

What?

Sounds cool and all,but greek.


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## SandpitMedic

DragonClaw said:


> Sounds cool and all,but greek.


Yiddish.
It’s a 7 year old thread with Israeli medics talking about working during the Gaza War, who are long gone from here.


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## SandpitMedic

CALEMT said:


> It’s amazing what a little bit of epi and some CPR will do to a dead thread.


7 years... they used the old paddles.
You’re clear, I’m clear, we’re all clear!


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## DragonClaw

I do not carry on duty, I don't see real danger , especially in IFT, and adding a gun in close quarters is just a recipe for distaster.


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## CALEMT

Verbal judo is always my go to... now when I’m off duty if I’m out of the house I have my gun on me.


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## DesertMedic66

I carry two cannons at all times. One on each bicep.


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## CALEMT

DesertMedic66 said:


> I carry two cannons at all times. One on each bicep.



BB guns is more like it... #noodlearms #doyouevenliftbro


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## ffemt8978

CALEMT said:


> BB guns is more like it... #noodlearms #doyouevenliftbro


Almost made me spit out my coffee with that one.


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## DrParasite

CALEMT said:


> Verbal judo is always my go to... now when I’m off duty if I’m out of the house I have my gun on me.


when your verbal judo fails than what do you do, other than panic?   

and if verbal judo was so good, why not just use it off duty and leave the gun at home?


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## DrParasite

djemt2001 said:


> Our state constitution allows all employees to carry firearms. A lot so carry firearms, but it’s based off their right. Dispatchers carry, animal control, EMS, librarians, electrical maintenance. You never now who is armed.


What state is this?


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## CALEMT

DrParasite said:


> when your verbal judo fails than what do you do



Leave. Why stay in a situation that you can't diffuse?



DrParasite said:


> and if verbal judo was so good, why not just use it off duty and leave the gun at home?



Because this is America and I freaking can and I never said my verbal judo was good.


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## Achilles

Wow old thread, last time I mentioned the word gun on this site, everyone in the thread got a citation and the thread was locked, glad to see we can talk about it again...
Haven’t seen any laws that prohibit us to carry, but the hopsical doesn’t like them.


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## DragonClaw

Achilles said:


> Wow old thread, last time I mentioned the word gun on this site, everyone in the thread got a citation and the thread was locked, glad to see we can talk about it again...
> Haven’t seen any laws that prohibit us to carry, but the hopsical doesn’t like them.



If a hospital has legal signage, we can't carry,  even as EMS.


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## Achilles

DragonClaw said:


> If a hospital has legal signage, we can't carry,  even as EMS.


If I ever get mugged, I’m going with the defense that it’s not legal...


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## DragonClaw

Achilles said:


> If I ever get mugged, I’m going with the defense that it’s not legal...



That's a terrible defense,  and depending on the jury or judge,  you might get nailed. 

Someone else breaking a law doesn't give you Permission to break another,  especially premeditated


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## Achilles

DragonClaw said:


> That's a terrible defense,  and depending on the jury or judge,  you might get nailed.
> 
> Someone else breaking a law doesn't give you Permission to break another,  especially premeditated


K


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## DragonClaw

Achilles said:


> K



I mean,  I can't stop you.  You do you.  But I'm not sure where you're getting into a shootout. But okay


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## Achilles

DragonClaw said:


> I mean,  I can't stop you.  You do you.  But I'm not sure where you're getting into a shootout. But okay


If someone else try’s to harm me and I have a gun, I will protect myself and my family. You can advocate that I should call whoever, but in the end, if I have a cpl, I’m carrying legally


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## DragonClaw

Achilles said:


> If someone else try’s to harm me and I have a gun, I will protect myself and my family. You can advocate that I should call whoever, but in the end, if I have a cpl, I’m carrying legally



Oh. if it was legal, that might give me pause, but that doesn't change the situations you'd be in and then create.  But they've got proper signage.


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## GMCmedic

DragonClaw said:


> Oh. if it was legal, that might give me pause, but that doesn't change the situations you'd be in and then create. But they've got proper signage.


Signs do not hold weight of law in every state. Our hospitals can post signs till theyre blue in the face and it doesnt mean anything other than a cop having a bad day might cite you for trespassing, but thats a pretty easy ticket to get out of.


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## DragonClaw

GMCmedic said:


> Signs do not hold weight of law in every state. Our hospitals can post signs till theyre blue in the face and it doesnt mean anything other than a cop having a bad day might cite you for trespassing, but thats a pretty easy ticket to get out of.



Here it does. Signs are the law.  If they're the proper ones.


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## GMCmedic

DragonClaw said:


> Here it does. Signs are the law. If they're the proper ones.


Please do not try to lecture me on the laws in my state. They do not hold weight of law in every state. Period.


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## DragonClaw

GMCmedic said:


> Please do not try to lecture me on the laws in my state. They do not hold weight of law in every state. Period.



I'm not trying to lecture you on your state unless you're in Texas.  And if you are,  then I'd love to go over the legality of the signage.

By here,  I meant Texas, not the USA.


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## GMCmedic

DragonClaw said:


> I'm not trying to lecture you on your state unless you're in Texas. And if you are, then I'd love to go over the legality of the signage.
> 
> By here, I meant Texas, not the USA.


Apologies. Misread your post.


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## DragonClaw

GMCmedic said:


> Apologies. Misread your post.



Np. We're all good.  I see how it could have looked like that.


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## KingCountyMedic

DragonClaw said:


> I'm not trying to lecture you on your state unless you're in Texas.  And if you are,  then I'd love to go over the legality of the signage.
> 
> By here,  I meant Texas, not the USA.


Unfortunately, last time I checked Texas was still part of the USA


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## DragonClaw

KingCountyMedic said:


> Unfortunately, last time I checked Texas was still part of the USA



Bro 😭

Give it 5 minutes.  Maybe we won't be.


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## Monday

I carry when working places like Mid East, LatAm, Mexico.

Not elsewhere. Trying to rely on persuasion (and my gerber, fair) for that.


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