# Basic->Medic or Basic->AEMT->Medic



## Jemig (Jun 16, 2014)

Hey Guys, 
I am a basic right now with an ultimate goal to become a medic. I am in no rush, but would like to get there in the next couple years. I am struggling to figure out what the best way to go about this. My question is, is it better to get a specialist license right now and work in ALS for a while then go get my medic, or just get experience with my basic and then go straight to medic? (I am in Michigan by the way, I know things differ state to state)


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## STXmedic (Jun 16, 2014)

If you want to be a medic, go get your medic. Don't waste time doing steps. There's no benefit in my opinion.*

*The opinions on this do vary widely.


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## Akulahawk (Jun 16, 2014)

Unless the Paramedic Program requires you get the "intermediate" certificate/license first, there's usually no reason to do so. They can take you from EMT to Paramedic directly. Truth be told, done right, they could do a zero to hero program and essentially take someone directly to Paramedic without too much trouble.


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## BASICallyEMT (Jun 16, 2014)

Most medic programs in my area require a minimum amount of hours on a ambulance (preferably a ALS unit). This allows you to gain knowledge on what medics actually do. IMO, there are benefits of working 911 prior to enrolling in a medic program. There is always something new to learn, you just have to put the effort in.


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## OnceAnEMT (Jun 17, 2014)

The "path" varies by program. Some programs will have a 1st "semester" that essentially gets you to the AEMT level and provides the option to test for AEMT, and then a 2nd "semester" that is strictly Paramedic level material. Some programs require AEMT before starting.


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## Christopher (Jun 17, 2014)

Jemig said:


> Hey Guys,
> I am a basic right now with an ultimate goal to become a medic. I am in no rush, but would like to get there in the next couple years. I am struggling to figure out what the best way to go about this. My question is, is it better to get a specialist license right now and work in ALS for a while then go get my medic, or just get experience with my basic and then go straight to medic? (I am in Michigan by the way, I know things differ state to state)



Go straight to medic, don't waste your time learning things the wrong way (experience != education; or at least it is inefficient).



BASICallyEMT said:


> Most medic programs in my area require a minimum amount of hours on a ambulance (preferably a ALS unit). This allows you to gain knowledge on what medics actually do. IMO, there are benefits of working 911 prior to enrolling in a medic program. There is always something new to learn, you just have to put the effort in.



Most programs that require you to spend time in the field do so because they are inferior programs that cannot properly educate providers.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 17, 2014)

Akulahawk said:


> Unless the Paramedic Program requires you get the "intermediate" certificate/license first, there's usually no reason to do so. They can take you from EMT to Paramedic directly. Truth be told, done right, they could do a zero to hero program and essentially take someone directly to Paramedic without too much trouble.


This. One of the best medics I worked with at my old job with the Evil Empire was a zero to hero BS degree medic from the local EMS Academy (attached to the school of medicine, in the EM dept). He could run circles around medics with a ton of 'experience' as a basic before they got their medic.
Experience is what you make of it. But education is an equalizer that can level the playing field very well, especially in a good program.


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## 46Young (Jun 17, 2014)

As an AEMT, you're learning skills thst a paramedic can do, but with only a fraction of the dequisite education. I recommend getting the education while you learn these skills, by going straight to medic.


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## DrParasite (Jun 17, 2014)

Work as an EMT for 2-3 years, on a 911 ambulance, then get your medic.  

There are two problems with Zero to Hero programs: 1) you have no EMS work experience, so you are trying to get a paramedic job and competing against people are are experienced and have seen more than you saw just in the classroom and 2) medic school and ride time is great, but I've seen many medics whose assessment skills and people skills suck. Plus you want to know what you are getting yourself into.  

Are there people who are great Zero to Hero medics?  sure, but I would say they are the exception rather than the rule.

skip the AEMT, it won't give you more money and most EMS systems will still pair you up with a medic, regardless of if you are an EMT or AEMT.


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## teedubbyaw (Jun 17, 2014)

I wouldn't waste the money. I get to start IV's and do advanced airways, but other than that, I function as a basic 99% of the time. It was more for a practice of NREMT testing and that I have the summer off to work.

I disagree with the above poster to an extent. A good medic program, plus over 400 hours of clinical experience, + academy, + field training is more than adequate for a lot of people.


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 17, 2014)

Look at agencies around you that you'd want to work at while you work on medic school. We don't hire EMT-Bs full time because the County doesn't allow them on the ambulance so I went and got my EMT-I so I could work in the field during medic school. Definitely didn't need EMT-I to do well in medic school though. 

I worked for about a year as an I and was bored to tears by 7 months.


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## BASICallyEMT (Jun 17, 2014)

Christopher said:


> Go straight to medic, don't waste your time learning things the wrong way (experience != education; or at least it is inefficient).
> 
> 
> 
> Most programs that require you to spend time in the field do so because they are inferior programs that cannot properly educate providers.



False, it's for the ones coming straight out of a EMT program who have no field experience. EMT courses are inefficient as it is... It saves time teaching medic students the basics of the job. And why spend all the time and effort going to medic school just to realize it isn't for you, when you could have figured that out as a basic. Some people cannot perform under pressure and the only way to know is to be in the field.


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## STXmedic (Jun 17, 2014)

BASICallyEMT said:


> False, it's for the ones coming straight out of a EMT program who have no field experience. EMT courses are inefficient as it is... It saves time teaching medic students the basics of the job. And why spend all the time and effort going to medic school just to realize it isn't for you, when you could have figured that out as a basic. Some people cannot perform under pressure and the only way to know is to be in the field.



I'm having a hard time deciphering what you are trying to get across. The only reason I know what side of this argument you are on (at least I think I know) is because you're using the "find out if its for you" argument. The rest of your post seems quite nonsensical to me.


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## Christopher (Jun 17, 2014)

BASICallyEMT said:


> False, it's for the ones coming straight out of a EMT program who have no field experience. EMT courses are inefficient as it is... It saves time teaching medic students the basics of the job. And why spend all the time and effort going to medic school just to realize it isn't for you, when you could have figured that out as a basic. Some people cannot perform under pressure and the only way to know is to be in the field.



I'll put my bias out front: I don't believe there should even be an EMT course as a "starter" / "get your feet wet" / "get a taste of EMS" / "find out if this is right for you". The minimum education should be Paramedic, with at least an AS degree component. Scope of practice should be graded per additional education (such as BS/MS), with most "paramedics" practicing at roughly an AEMT level right out of school (+ECG interpretation).

If the EMT and paramedic programs in your area are that bad, perhaps they do need an "experience" based component. But it is hardly required, nor is it reasonable to require of students. If your programs aren't able to determine this of its students they're not doing their job.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 17, 2014)

Christopher said:


> I'll put my bias out front: I don't believe there should even be an EMT course as a "starter" / "get your feet wet" / "get a taste of EMS" / "find out if this is right for you". The minimum education should be Paramedic, with at least an AS degree component. Scope of practice should be graded per additional education (such as BS/MS), with most "paramedics" practicing at roughly an AEMT level right out of school (+ECG interpretation).
> 
> If the EMT and paramedic programs in your area are that bad, perhaps they do need an "experience" based component. But it is hardly required, nor is it reasonable to require of students. If your programs aren't able to determine this of its students they're not doing their job.


I fully agree with you, looking at britain or.Australia as examples of that. I wish we were like that


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## STXmedic (Jun 17, 2014)

Christopher said:


> I'll put my bias out front: I don't believe there should even be an EMT course as a "starter" / "get your feet wet" / "get a taste of EMS" / "find out if this is right for you". The minimum education should be Paramedic, with at least an AS degree component. Scope of practice should be graded per additional education (such as BS/MS), with most "paramedics" practicing at roughly an AEMT level right out of school (+ECG interpretation).
> 
> If the EMT and paramedic programs in your area are that bad, perhaps they do need an "experience" based component. But it is hardly required, nor is it reasonable to require of students. If your programs aren't able to determine this of its students they're not doing their job.



This.


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 17, 2014)

I'm not gonna quote it...but what they said. 

California seems to be the only place that has medic schools who consistently require experience. 

I call BS on not knowing if it's for you. Clinical and Internship components are mandatory...pretty easy to figure it out during school.


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## BASICallyEMT (Jun 17, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> I'm not gonna quote it...but what they said.
> 
> California seems to be the only place that has medic schools who consistently require experience.
> 
> I call BS on not knowing if it's for you. Clinical and Internship components are mandatory...pretty easy to figure it out during school.



Clinical experience varies by student. Not everyone is going to have the same amount of calls or the same type of calls (if you even get a call). As for experience, I agree maybe it is just good for my area. You have EMTs who put minimal effort into their programs and will forget what they learned fairly quickly. So students have to relearn BLS topics that take away time from the ALS portion. All I'm saying is how can it hurt getting some experience in a 911 system where you work alongside medics. I personally like asking medics questions and learning from them in hopes of easing my way through medic school.


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## STXmedic (Jun 17, 2014)

Assuming the medics that you work under are actually good, competent, knowledgeable medics that are willing to teach you, then there's nothing at all wrong. If the medics lack the aforementioned traits, then you may be having bad habits instilled that will be detrimental to you in school. You won't likely know what category your medic falls into, either (due simply to ignorance on your part). After all, they're the ones that went to medic school, so what they say and do must be correct.


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## BASICallyEMT (Jun 17, 2014)

STXmedic said:


> Assuming the medics that you work under are actually good, competent, knowledgeable medics that are willing to teach you, then there's nothing at all wrong. If the medics lack the aforementioned traits, then you may be having bad habits instilled that will be detrimental to you in school. You won't likely know what category your medic falls into, either (due simply to ignorance on your part). After all, they're the ones that went to medic school, so what they say and do must be correct.



I would hope most could separate the good from the bad apples and keep an open mind. I can easily pick out medics to stray away from.


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## STXmedic (Jun 17, 2014)

BASICallyEMT said:


> I would hope most could separate the good from the bad apples and keep an open mind. I can easily pick out medics to stray away from.



The blatantly bad medics that should never have gotten a patch are obvious. I see students all the time talking about how great X and Y medic are because they did this or that. I cringe knowing that many of those medics couldn't tell VT from asystole, or that whatever the student is praising them for is something incorrect. Without the knowledge, you don't know what you don't know. If they just fake it to make it, you may not catch on because they are confident despite their ineptitude.


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 17, 2014)

I ran something like 350 calls in my internship. Schools placing interns in slow systems are doing them a disservice.


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## Angel (Jun 17, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> I ran something like 350 calls in my internship. Schools placing interns in slow systems are doing them a disservice.



I agree but in CA its a huge issue. Not necessarily the schools fault but availability. At my school there (were) students waiting ~1 year to get them because the Dept where we were contracted put them on a hold so they could train their own personnel. Luckily, when I went that all ended and I got placed within 20 days of taking the protocol test, but I consider our group the exception, as folks are still waiting.


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## MonkeyArrow (Jun 17, 2014)

What I don't understand about the California model is why they have so many of everything? If you live in Cali, then you should know the job forecast before you ever step into a medic school. Therefore, if you know the job forecast is looking bleak, why would you move to get you P patch and then whine about not being able to get a internship/job/decent salary. Of course there isn't going to be availability if there are 100 students getting pumped out with spots for 10 of them to be hired (and, therefore, 10 of them to be properly precepted). I think they should just shut down the schools over there for a while (a half-hearted joke). It's not like there will be a sudden shortage of medics or anything.


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## Christopher (Jun 18, 2014)

BASICallyEMT said:


> I would hope most could separate the good from the bad apples and keep an open mind. I can easily pick out medics to stray away from.



This is tougher than you think, especially with the high quantity of Low Information Healthcare Voters out there (h/t Kelly). Worse still, even if you're a great paramedic you probably still have no idea what you don't know and probably never received actual instruction in how to instruct. Not to mention the sheer mass of myths and traditions EMS lives by 

Experience is no substitute for education. They're two separate things entirely.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 18, 2014)

MonkeyArrow said:


> What I don't understand about the California model is why they have so many of everything? If you live in Cali, then you should know the job forecast before you ever step into a medic school. Therefore, if you know the job forecast is looking bleak, why would you move to get you P patch and then whine about not being able to get a internship/job/decent salary. Of course there isn't going to be availability if there are 100 students getting pumped out with spots for 10 of them to be hired (and, therefore, 10 of them to be properly precepted). I think they should just shut down the schools over there for a while (a half-hearted joke). It's not like there will be a sudden shortage of medics or anything.


money. They see it as a way to earn a quick buck being patch mills


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## Angel (Jun 18, 2014)

Exactly. Money is all it is out here. I think by requiring an AA for entry level will cut down on schools like ncti and the like. One can hope


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## bradpop14 (Jun 21, 2014)

Some counties don't even recognize the AEMT cert. In LA County there is no job placement as an AEMT. You're either EMT-B or a Medic. Now, some companies may give a pay increase. But, unless you're with a company that has a license to perform ALS, the AEMT scope of practice will never be utilized in the field. 
As far as experience goes, I had a few classmates that were going straight from EMT school into medic school. IN MY OPINION this isn't the smartest choice. What if you get to clinical or your intern and you dont like the field? You just wasted $$$ on something you don't want to do. I want to be a medic. But I also know I need to experience EMS from a basic level to make a rational career decision to stay in EMS. Some people can't hang man!
I am also an EMS noobie though. So if I'm wrong in any way please correct me. And my apologies in advanced.

Best of luck to you


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## rmena (Jun 24, 2014)

Dont just pick on CA, Utah is the exact same....they certify so many medics that just end up in the ER with the scope of a basic.


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## rmena (Jun 24, 2014)

Great Depression 1: run on the banks. Great depression 2: run on the schools


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## rmena (Jun 24, 2014)

I despise medics (any EMT) that hide behind their "experience" card and dont keep hitting the books and train 24/7. While at my clinical rotations I watched medics play endless madden and then asked me the signs and symptoms of increased ICP...I was fresh in the books so I was able to rattle them off and then he disputed me and googled it...commonly saying "oh I forgot...gosh its been so long since medic school...doesn't matter though..I know what to do...AND i have google!". Watched another meat head call a gal with a epidural bleed a "faker" because she didn't stay unconscious.


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