# NFPA Wants to Draft New Ambulance Standards



## karaya (Jan 20, 2009)

Now the NFPA wants develop new ambulance standards to replace KKK standards and then some.

Here is the read:

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/articles/a_new_standard.html


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## reaper (Jan 20, 2009)

To bad that ambulances don't fall under fire protection!


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## medic417 (Jan 20, 2009)

karaya said:


> Now the NFPA wants develop new ambulance standards to replace KKK standards and then some.
> 
> Here is the read:
> 
> http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/articles/a_new_standard.html




Wow I hope not.  We need medical professionals designing our mobile emergency rooms.  Fire needs to focus on designing fire trucks.


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## rmellish (Jan 20, 2009)

It just points the lack of national organization for EMS. Fire has adopted EMS because apparently we can't fend for ourselves.


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## medic417 (Jan 20, 2009)

rmellish said:


> It just points the lack of national organization for EMS. Fire has adopted EMS because apparently we can't fend for ourselves.



No fire is adopting us to fund more fire trucks.  We need to organize as Medical Professionals.


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## marineman (Jan 20, 2009)

I won't cast judgment until I see the outcome but I must say all fire vs EMS crap aside I'm hopeful with this as there are several downfalls of ambulances currently that hopefully will be addressed. I won't get too worked up over it since I work for a private company they won't have to purchase by the guidelines anyway but changes definitely need to be made.

Not to get this thread off topic and mods please split if it's too much of a deviation but what are some of the top changes you hope to see in design of ambulances? The biggest one that I have in mind is making a ramp/winch type system for loading patients mandatory equipment. Way too many good medics must leave the field early due to back problems coming from lifting patients.


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## rmellish (Jan 20, 2009)

medic417 said:


> No fire is adopting us to fund more fire trucks.  We need to organize as Medical Professionals.



Agreed, and you're preaching to the choir


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## medic417 (Jan 20, 2009)

marineman said:


> Not to get this thread off topic and mods please split if it's too much of a deviation but what are some of the top changes you hope to see in design of ambulances? The biggest one that I have in mind is making a ramp/winch type system for loading patients mandatory equipment. Way too many good medics must leave the field early due to back problems coming from lifting patients.



Why not do like in England where the door tilts down.  Wheel cot onto it.  Then lower door to ground.  Load patient.  Push onto door.  Push button door raises even with floor.  Push cot inside.  Push button door tilts back closed.


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## JPINFV (Jan 20, 2009)

marineman said:


> Not to get this thread off topic and mods please split if it's too much of a deviation but what are some of the top changes you hope to see in design of ambulances? The biggest one that I have in mind is making a ramp/winch type system for loading patients mandatory equipment. Way too many good medics must leave the field early due to back problems coming from lifting patients.


Better restraint systems (5 point restraints please) at all seat locations, built in spare oxygen tank storage (I love Leader Ambulance's system for this. See the little gray square thing below the bottle? It's a spring loaded stop that moves up when the bottle is all the way into the cradle to prevent forward/back motion.), spare battery system in case the main batteries die (Leader Ambulance has them also with a switch that accesses them for an "emergency start"), more amber lights on the rear, mandated privacy windows (either an electronic system like in Horton ambulances or with window decals, and the list can go on.


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## bstone (Jan 20, 2009)

The article was clear in that all believe the fire service the WRONG group to form such standards.


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## NolaRabbit (Jan 20, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Why not do like in England where the door tilts down.  Wheel cot onto it.  Then lower door to ground.  Load patient.  Push onto door.  Push button door raises even with floor.  Push cot inside.  Push button door tilts back closed.



I am so behind you on this one. This type of design makes so much more sense than even power stretchers.


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## medic417 (Jan 20, 2009)

NolaRabbit said:


> I am so behind you on this one. This type of design makes so much more sense than even power stretchers.



Actually combined with power cot would eliminate the majority of our lifts.


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## marineman (Jan 20, 2009)

I would fully support the lifting back door bit, anything that prevents lifting any more often than we have to. I just mention the ramp/winch combination because I've seen it gaining popularity on American ambulances so I figured it would be easier to implement and that's the one I've seen in use. Anything that saves my back I fully support.


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## JJR512 (Jan 20, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Why not do like in England where the door tilts down.  Wheel cot onto it.  Then lower door to ground.  Load patient.  Push onto door.  Push button door raises even with floor.  Push cot inside.  Push button door tilts back closed.



Sounds interesting. Can you find a video of this in operation? What happens in the event of a malfunction, can you still get the stretcher out somehow?


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## medic417 (Jan 20, 2009)

Here are some styles I found with quick search.

http://www.pls-access.co.uk/products_stretcher.html

http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/index.htm


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## EMTinNEPA (Jan 21, 2009)

I looked at this title, and with the underline the F looked like an E.  I'm like "I want to do WHAT?"


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## Veneficus (Jan 21, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Wow I hope not.  We need medical professionals designing our mobile emergency rooms.  Fire needs to focus on designing fire trucks.



Apparently you forgot the fire service is expert at everything they get involved in. In Naples, Florida they even know more about medicine than physicians. They don't like it very much when people suggest what they are doing needs to be changed though.


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## Jon (Jan 21, 2009)

I think this is a step in the right direction. As has been pointed out... the standards should be different between a fire department unit that also has roles for Hazmat and Rescue, and a van that is used to schlep Gomers.

This will only work if the big private companies get onboard - the AMR's and Acadians of the world.


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## karaya (Jan 21, 2009)

Jon said:


> I think this is a step in the right direction. As has been pointed out... the standards should be different between a fire department unit that also has roles for Hazmat and Rescue, and a van that is used to schlep Gomers.
> 
> This will only work if the big private companies get onboard - the AMR's and Acadians of the world.


 
I think you are on the right track with this one.  The American Ambulance Association already raised some flags on the issue as the article points out.  I don't believe this will be a run-away fire service standard.  There is an on-line application for those who feel qualified to serve on the committee and I'll wager there will be several reps from the private sector.


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## PotashRLS (Feb 3, 2011)

NFPA 1917 is really gaining steam quickly.  Some things they are proposing make some sense but are already being done by most higher end ambulance manufacturers.  Some think it could go into effect around Jan. 1, 2012

However I and several manufacturers think the biggest problem is that the NFPA is sticking its nose into something it has no business sticking its nose into.  KKK specs are out there in addition to DOT specs.  In Wisconsin, we abide by Trans 309 which is state law, not guidelines by the NFPA.  They just added nearly $10,000 extra to an already pricey ambulance.  And as far as tax payers go, ambulances get replaced at a faster rate than fire trucks because of higher usage.  $150,000 to $200,000 isn't out of the question for an ambulance now depending on the manufacturer and chassis size. :wacko: We are looking to replace one of our ambulances here shortly and our current manufacturer/dealer is scratching his head at what we should do.  We are private, non-profit and not fire based and have no obligation to abide by any NFPA standards specifically.  Only KKK and Trans 309 specs apply to our operations.


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## Aerin-Sol (Feb 3, 2011)

KKK standards? Huh?


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