# BVM Of Apenic Patient and Oxygen Administration



## emt1972 (May 16, 2012)

As a Skills Instructor and Examiner at my local college, I'm asking for some input on this one.

NREMT has both of these as a separate skill, however... we test them as a single station, but as two separate skills.

If a student were to verbalize BSI on the first skill, but not the second... would you consider that as a critical fail? According to NREMT skill sheets, it would be a critical fail.  My boss feels that we shouldn't critical fail a student for it based on the fact they are combined stations, and it is assumed by the student that BSI has already been taken from the first skill.

I'm not out to fail students, but I strongly disagree with my bosses perspective.  Any and all input on this matter is greatly appreciated.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 16, 2012)

All depends on what your boss wants. For us we have both skills in the same station but have the students do the BSI and scene safety for each skill. 

We also combined Trauma assessment and Backboarding into the same skill. For this one the student does not need to do the whole BSI and scene safety.


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## Handsome Robb (May 16, 2012)

If you are combining the stations there's no reason to make them verbalize BSI a second time unless you make a point of explaining to them that they need to before the scenario. 

I'd be pissed if I was a student and failed a scenario because I didn't verbalize BSI a second time when it was a combined scenario. 

I help with skills testing as well, we combine these stations as well and only have them verbalize it once. 

Why make it a combined scenario if you are going to require them to run it like two separate scenarios?


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## emt1972 (May 16, 2012)

NREMT skill sheets show both skills as BSI being a critical fail.  However, if the student actually dons gloves, they are automatically awarded the point and no critical fail.  But if they only verbalize BSI for one and not the second (or actually take it on the second), I myself consider it a critical fail.


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## Handsome Robb (May 16, 2012)

emt1972 said:


> NREMT skill sheets show both skills as BSI being a critical fail.  However, if the student actually dons gloves, they are automatically awarded the point and no critical fail.  But if they only verbalize BSI for one and not the second (or actually take it on the second), I myself consider it a critical fail.



Why?

You combined the scenarios. Do you have to change your BSI in the field between every skill that you do?

It's your test and your opinion, I'm just stating mine. Sorry if I came off harsh, it hasn't been the best day.


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## emt1972 (May 16, 2012)

@ NVRob, NREMT treats them as two separate skill stations and each of them state "Failure to take BSI" as a critical fail.


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## Handsome Robb (May 16, 2012)

emt1972 said:


> @ NVRob, NREMT treats them as two separate skill stations and each of them state "Failure to take BSI" as a critical fail.



I understand that. 

I gave you my opinion and how we test where I help out at and where I went to school at.


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## emt1972 (May 16, 2012)

I'm going off NREMT standards is all.  I value all opinions


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## DesertMedic66 (May 16, 2012)

emt1972 said:


> @ NVRob, NREMT treats them as two separate skill stations and each of them state "Failure to take BSI" as a critical fail.



This all depends on what your boss/lead instructor wants. If the student forgets to state BSI on the second one of the combined stations I'm personally not gonna fail them. 

It's good to have a mock testing day so the students know exactly how they will be tested out.


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## Handsome Robb (May 16, 2012)

firefite said:


> It's good to have a mock testing day so the students know exactly how they will be tested out.



What he said.


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## emt1972 (May 16, 2012)

We try to hold mock testing days, but often times we are short staffed and have an abundance of students which makes it very difficult! Again, thank you... I value the opinions!


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## DesertMedic66 (May 16, 2012)

NRB Skill read off: 45 y/o male patient with SOB. Assemble the O2 tank and place the patient on a NRB mask. 

Student them performs that skill. When they are done we give them another scenario 

BVM Skill: You arrive on scene and find a 50 year old patient not breathing etc. 

Student preforms skill

This is pretty much how what the skills instructors read to the students. It clearly shows that they are 2 different skills so they need to start from the top.


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## Handsome Robb (May 16, 2012)

My biggest thought is that if you are going to require them to verbalize BSI for both the students need to be made aware of this prior to testing. 

That's the biggest point I've been trying to relay and admittedly have been doing a terrible job of it. 

NREMT testing is nerve racking enough for most students and it will only frustrate them if they fail for something they thought they covered when they verbalized it the first time. 

I always tell students to talk, a lot, during their practical testing. Proctors can't read their minds, they need to say everything that they are thinking and doing. 

There's a really good example of this on youtube, it's a paramedic NREMT megacode but they guy does an excellent job of verbalizing everything and I've used it as an example when I have a ride along on the truck and we are talking about practical examinations. 

All of this talk reminds me that I have paramedic practicals in less than two months and also a practical pass/fail scenario at the end of my internship.


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## emt1972 (May 16, 2012)

@NVRob, best of wishes on the paramedic practicals! You can do it!


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