# Cool-headed ambulance man drives alleged hijacker into trap



## enjoynz (Jun 12, 2011)

Have you ever had someone hijack your ambulance?

Story as attached:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10731877

We get a few ambulances stolen, not that they get too far with the tracking device. 
They don't usually hijack the Ambulance with the Officer still in the truck. 
Must have been pretty scarey for the Ambo involved.
At least he kept his wits about him.

I know a good deal of female officers, that one person crew in our rural areas....
society has charged so much now, it's not a safe practice at all and being rural, the call for help is really too far away.
The time will come when something bad happens and then the ambulance service management might have to rethink they practices! 
It's sad to think that's what it will take for them to sort out this major problem!
A prime example that St John need to pull finger and have all their trucks 2 man crewed, especially on the graveyard shifts!!!!!


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## HotelCo (Jun 12, 2011)

> Mr Lynch said *many St John ambulances were single-crewed* and often responded to late-night calls in good faith.



What?


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## enjoynz (Jun 12, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> What?



Exactly!
As I said it will only be a matter of time!
Someday/night something will go really pear-shaped.
It's not just the problem of lifting the patients,commencing CPR on your own for 10 to 20 mins ++ before the second ambulance arrives. 
It's the chance of getting yourself into a dangerous situation and not having an out. 
Many back country areas, still have no cellphone coverage or radio contact!
Also officer's have enough to carry in to a job, with the recus kit and defib, left alone the radio, which more often than not, gets left in the truck!


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## abckidsmom (Jun 12, 2011)

I sure would like to know what he said on the radio that got the dispatcher to leave him alone instead of freaking out and confirming the situation.  All the potentially sensitive mayday calls I've ever heard, the dispatcher has said something like "485, are you OK?  I copy your Signal 33." or something like that.  It would take a stupid bad guy not to catch on.

We had a situation like this a few years ago when a crazy guy hopped in the truck that was posted.  He pulled the medic out of the front seat, but didn't know there was a medic in the back of the truck, too.  She buckled in the captain's chair and called the comm center, stayed on the phone with them through the 25 minute pursuit down the highway until the truck ran into the ditch. 

It was a scary, scary night for her, and pretty scary for us in the comm center too.


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## bigbaldguy (Jun 12, 2011)

Don't most services have a "code word" that lets dispatch know they are in trouble? 

*PS. Do not post code words on forum*


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## MrBrown (Jun 12, 2011)

enjoynz said:


> The time will come when something bad happens and then the ambulance service management might have to rethink they practices!
> It's sad to think that's what it will take for them to sort out this major problem!
> A prime example that St John need to pull finger and have all their trucks 2 man crewed, especially on the graveyard shifts!!!!!



Where are the additional Ambulance Officers going to come from?

The Ministry of Health funds the core operational cost which is mainly manpower and consumables with some adhoc funding for one off projects like disaster caches and HPCA registration.  You know as well as Brown that all the capital financing comes from part-charges, donations and community funding.

Any substantive increase in the number of Ambulance Officers is going to take a long time and cost millions of dollars which the Health budget does not want to give to us.  It takes three years to go and do the Degree so there is a huge lead in time to deploy people. An additional 80 Officers were recruited last year into Central and Midland (well, its now all Central lol) which goes some way to ensuring full-crewing and reducing on-call rosters.

Ultimately Brown thinks St John does not really push the issue as hard as they should, but, unfortunately the Government seems disinterested to the point where they do not want to accept overall responsibility for the Ambulance Service.

Then again, Brown is not the only one who has said foul things about Jaimes Wood on station.  The Ambulance Service needs to be split off from St John completely.

Mind you, its better now than its ever been before ... would you rather go back the 1990s and have a Paramedic with his Advanced Ambulance Aid Certificate from NAOTS show up in a blue jersey with a big white patch on his arm, a Lifepak 10 in his hand and only morphine in his big orange tacklebox?


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## enjoynz (Jun 12, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Where are the additional Ambulance Officers going to come from?



That old swear word....Volunteers!

Back in the day we use to have an over kill on our ambulance...3 people.

1. Driver only...plus he was an extra pair of hands.
2. Person the knew mainly what they were doing.
3. The newbie...trainee...or general dog's body.

Plus the boss man was lights and sirens, 20 mins drive away....with a few more bells and whistles to his belt.

I know there is no funding there to put in a whole lot more paid staff to cover two man crewing. 
And it would be an overkill to have people with 3 years of degree under their belts, to man more rural stations.
But...............if they are not prepared to at least keep a PC2 level person on the ambulance as a 2nd......at least have a volunteer driver with a first aid cert....instead of having to one man crew as most rural stations throughout New Zealand have at the moment!!!
I bet there is not one single EMS person on this site, that are not from New Zealand, that have one man crewed their ambulance...they are not allowed to!

Half the time in our area, ambulances get left at the side of the road, because the patient is too sick and someone has to be in the back, so they call a second ambulance out to drive for the first truck, or transfer the pt into a second, 2 man crewed ambulance, from the city!

To me this is a great waste of resources, eg man power, fuel, time to go retrieve the vehicle you're had to leave behind.
If every ambulance at least had someone trained to be behind the wheel, that would free up the Paramedic's to do what they are trained to do...look after the patient.

The ambulance service blames the Govt...instead of thinking outside the square a little more.
I don't disagree that there should be well trained officers on the trucks...just what is required of them to do alone, is the problem.

Also there is the safety factor, which is a major issue, clearly highlighted by this incident.


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## enjoynz (Jun 12, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> Don't most services have a "code word" that lets dispatch know they are in trouble?
> 
> *PS. Do not post code words on forum*



New Zealand ambulances have a panic button,
(at least they use to when I was on them...it's very easy to hit in error I have to say...not a good look with dispatch), plus there is a radio call sign used.


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## adamjh3 (Jun 12, 2011)

> Don't most services have a "code word" that lets dispatch know they are in trouble?
> 
> *PS. Do not post code words on forum*



One of the Local 911s that I've ridden with has panic buttons and call signs. 

My company (run by a man who used to be a cop) uses 10-  11- and 12- codes for our radio traffic, there's a series of codes for shots fired, crew member down, request for PD code 3 etc, etc. No way in Hell I'm going to use them, though, our dispatch is based two or three counties north of here. I'm not going to play the telephone game between myself, my dispatch, and extra local resources I would need ASAP down here, I'm calling 911 direct from my cell phone.


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## HotelCo (Jun 13, 2011)

My service doesn't have code words, and I'm pretty sure our panic buttons don't work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Aerin-Sol (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't want to be insensitive, but to me a hijacker is someone who takes control of a vehicle with a weapon. From the article this guy hopped up front and said "take me to Hospital X, now!" right? There's no mention of a weapon or intoxication or anything -- why was this so scary?


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## enjoynz (Jun 13, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> I don't want to be insensitive, but to me a hijacker is someone who takes control of a vehicle with a weapon. From the article this guy hopped up front and said "take me to Hospital X, now!" right? There's no mention of a weapon or intoxication or anything -- why was this so scary?



This link is the updated article:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5138182/Alleged-ambulance-hijacker-in-court

I guess just because you don't have a weapon, doesn't mean you are not a loose cannon.
Who knows maybe he said he did...it depends on things like size as well...if you are a little ambo officer and some great whopping guy jumps into the ambulance and tells you to drive..what would you do?

FYI it's very hard to get a gun license in NZ...looks like this person is trouble anyway...going by this article, so he would not have been able to get one very easily, thank goodness.


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## MrBrown (Jun 13, 2011)

enjoynz said:


> And it would be an overkill to have people with 3 years of degree under their belts, to man more rural stations.



No it is not, it is now the accepted standard for new recruits here in Auckland not to mention Australia, the UK and Canada.  There will come a time, and it will be very soon, where Paramedic and Intensive Care are totally Degree based and it's a day Brown and a lot of other AOs are waiting with baited breath to see.



enjoynz said:


> if they are not prepared to at least keep a PC2 level person on the ambulance as a 2nd......at least have a volunteer driver with a first aid cert



Brown strongly disagrees.  Somebody with a five day course is little more than a second pair of hands.  In a practical context yes it is bloody nice to have a second pair of hands but we have moved beyond the days where Primary Care is an acceptable practice level.  

Somebody on National Diploma who has done the Operations Induction is permitted to drive.

In 1993 it might have been acceptable for somebody to have a six week Proficiency Ambulance Aid Certificate but not any more.


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## samiam (Jun 13, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> My service doesn't have code words, and I'm pretty sure our panic buttons don't work.



Does that really surprise you? lol  and it seems like you guys would be the ones who need then the most.  I have seen some of the crazies you bring in.


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## subliminal1284 (Jun 13, 2011)

Are you Fing kidding me?! They only run a single person on a call? How the F are you supposed to lift and load a patient by yourself? How the F do you do patient care en route? Not to mention the danger they are putting their employees in. If they cant afford 2 people they should just scrap their entire ambulance program and tell people to find their own way to the hospital.


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## exodus (Jun 13, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> Don't most services have a "code word" that lets dispatch know they are in trouble?
> 
> *PS. Do not post code words on forum*



Code banana!! Code banana!!!! Helppppppp


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## LucidResq (Jun 13, 2011)

We have panic buttons, and two different code words that are handled differently per protocol - one is more of a general trouble one (situation gets out of hand and extra help needed, shots fired at officer, etc) and the other is specific to a hostage situation. 

A panic button will get the dispatcher sending out tones and asking for status. Most of these are accidental, but not all. 

The first code word may get the dispatcher asking for status, just in case it's used accidentally or misheard, but if there's an obvious struggle going on or you can hear it in their voice (very very scary to hear up in dispatch, by the way), you're just gonna hear dispatch starting the cavalry and maybe asking for more specifics. 

The last "hostage" code word should not cause any noticeable change from the normal radio traffic per protocol, but there would be a lot going on behind-the-scenes and thru alternate means of communication to get help started. I don't know if we've ever had one of these though.

I worry that our Fire or EMS folks will get into a situation like this. Our officers know these procedures and codes very well. I get the feeling that our Fire/EMS folks take this stuff too casually because they don't think they will ever run into such a situation. I know they could probably be creative and get the help they need without code words or knowing the protocols for radio traffic in a hostage situation, but it would be so much easier if we were all on the same page.


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## enjoynz (Jun 13, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Brown strongly disagrees.  Somebody with a five day course is little more than a second pair of hands.  In a practical context yes it is bloody nice to have a second pair of hands but we have moved beyond the days where Primary Care is an acceptable practice level.
> 
> Somebody on National Diploma who has done the Operations Induction is permitted to drive.
> 
> In 1993 it might have been acceptable for somebody to have a six week Proficiency Ambulance Aid Certificate but not any more.



You are missing the point Mr Brown..a second pair of hands is better than no hands at all. Not to mention the safety and driving aspect!

I'll give you a prime example.......

My 90 year old mother was having an angina attack last week....she pushed her alarm as she was still concerned after having her GTN spray.
The local ambulance was not in service (AO was doing her real job, Children school bus run ).
Ambulance turns up from the station in the next town 25km away, with one AO level (EMT-B for our american friends) who was covering for the paramedic's shift.
Something I was told is not meant to happen when I was on the ambulance a few years back, as the union say the a paramedic can only be covered by another paramedic.
Guess they are short of paid staff yet again...ho hum!

To cut a long story short, the house has stairs on both the front and back doors.
The AO asked if I could help her with the stair chair....otherwise working alone, my mum would of had to walk to the ambulance.
You know as well as I, giving that this was a cardiac related call and the pt had a cardiac history including a cardiac arrest (which this AO was aware of), this is not really an option.
So what would she have done if I was not there or had a bad back???

The AO would of had to call for the local FD to come and do the lift or call for lifting assistant from the next ambulance which is 30 mins drive away.

It's all very well to look into the future of we are going to have 2 x paid high level trained ambulance officers on every truck in the country....given the lack of $$$ it's not going to happen in my life time.

They need to do something to cover the problems today... not in 2030!
As it is, the 2 day course the service runs for someone to be able to drive an ambulance is rubbish...the officers should be put through a defensive driving course at the very least!

You need to move out to a rural area for a year Mr Brown and see just how hard it is for rural paid staff, that are one man crewing, before you can truly make any judgement!


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## MrBrown (Jun 13, 2011)

Single crewing is rubbish we know that but so is allowing people with a five day course to be part of an Ambulance crew.  It disproportionately increases the amount of clinical decision making and risk that the other Officer has to take on board.  Brown cannot turn to a Primary Care Officer and say hey bro do you think this is the early stages of meningeal septicaemia or the sniffles, hmm does this look like a left bundle branch block posing as a STEMI or not?

The National Diploma recruits seem fairly dexterous in their ability to function and they are permitted to crew while completing the course.  

To lower the standards simply to get people on the Ambulance is not acceptable, the UK has done that because they have become blindly obsessed with the ORCON target and can see nothing else besides that.  

The Union has also fought long and hard to increase standards and it was due in good part to the Union (not to mention staff and CMG) that Clinical Excellence came out.  

Volunteers used to moan it was impossible to get on National Certificate, now that we have National Diploma and everybody is required to do National Diploma they still moan because it takes too long.

Brown agrees that St John are rubbish and the Ambulance Service needs to be split off completely and given to the Ministry of Health or a comparable entity.  St John are a hell of a lot better than they were ten years ago but they are still rubbish.

The Officers on station Brown has talked too that have moved up from such places as Wanaka, Invercargill, Otaki and Napier agree that single crewing is bollocks but that if we continue to compromise for crew numbers we will forever go half a step forward and two steps backward.


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## zmedic (Jun 20, 2011)

We used to have a code phrase for "we are being held hostage." Everyone else but the dispatcher was to get off the channel. The crew in trouble was supposed to try to work in there somewhere our location and then the PD would come looking.


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## Hockey (Jun 20, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> Don't most services have a "code word" that lets dispatch know they are in trouble?
> 
> *PS. Do not post code words on forum*



I'm going to since it is common knowledge


X-Alpha###

XRay Alpha###


Dispatch comes back with the nice response with "Alpha### are you okay on scene?"


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## Outbac1 (Jun 21, 2011)

Here we have panic buttons on the radios. If one is pressed,(even by accident), the dispatcher will call your unit and ask you to check ?????. If no reply they will send PD to your location as indicated by the onboard GPS and /or your last known location. Unless you can give a discreet reply about your problem it is best to say nothing.


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## Outbac1 (Jun 21, 2011)

I have to agree with Mr. Brown. Not having two fully qualified medics on an ambulance in a modern country is archaic. The cost is not that much to operate a quality service. New Zealand is about 4.5 times the size of Nova Scotia with about 4x the population and similar pop density. We run a full service ground ambulance and a helicopter and dispatch center for under $100 million/yr. (2007-2008). Or about $100. per person. That's not a lot of money per capita. It comes down to how loud you cry out for a modern service. How much would income tax or a point of sale tax have to increase to cover that for the whole country? Would you be willing to pay it?

 I don't believe there is a place in modern health care for 5 - 21 day trained first aiders. If the volunteers want to help they can join the Red Cross or similar. If they really believe in EMS they won't mind taking the education to be a part of it.


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## enjoynz (Jul 5, 2011)

Outbac1 said:


> I have to agree with Mr. Brown. Not having two fully qualified medics on an ambulance in a modern country is archaic. The cost is not that much to operate a quality service. New Zealand is about 4.5 times the size of Nova Scotia with about 4x the population and similar pop density. We run a full service ground ambulance and a helicopter and dispatch center for under $100 million/yr. (2007-2008). Or about $100. per person. That's not a lot of money per capita. It comes down to how loud you cry out for a modern service. How much would income tax or a point of sale tax have to increase to cover that for the whole country? Would you be willing to pay it?
> 
> I don't believe there is a place in modern health care for 5 - 21 day trained first aiders. If the volunteers want to help they can join the Red Cross or similar. If they really believe in EMS they won't mind taking the education to be a part of it.



Outbac1 I was not saying that that would not be the ideal, to have 2 qualified ambo's on every ambulance in NZ. That would solve a lot of problems!.

The point I was trying to make is that the ambulance service is only sending out one officer on their own, in most of the rural paid stations throughout our Country.
They have to treat, load and monitor, as they drive their patients to hospital on their own.
Would it not be better to have someone trained to drive the ambulance, so that that officer can do what they were trained to do...treat the patient?
That driver being someone trained to be behind the wheel of an ambulance...not the local FF or police that has offered to drive cause there is no-one else available to and a back up driver is half an hour away.
Anyone can be trained in 30 minutes the correct way to push on a chest and use a bag mask...you'd have to be pretty thick not to pick that up (If you need an extra pair of hands in a hurry). 
Or would you all rather carry on working on your own...until such time as there is the money available????
We do have a chopper service for urgent calls, but because of the weather sometimes, they can not make it to our side of the ranges.
Meaning an hour plus drive in many cases, longer with the amount of stops to do your VS checks, etc.

With current events (the earthquakes) in NZ, most other funds have been put on the back burner. I can't see any extra $$$ being put into the ambulance services for many years to come.
The driver idea would be a quick fix...guess from the sounds of it...the paid staff don't want the extra pair of hands though...the people I feel sorry for is the patients...they are the ones that suffer in the long run...also still not to forget the danger of sending one officer out on their own!
Guess the police force in our country areas have the same problems, most of their patrol cars are one person crewed!
Ho-hum...............


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