# What happened to AHASTI?



## RielHalfbreed

I am a past graduate of AHASTI and there was a time that I had nothing but great things to say about my former school. Now from interactions with more recent graduates I find myself wondering what happened? It seems that now the school is under new ownership, a number of managers jumped ship, they've moved to a dingy and sub-par location, and they've abandoned the principles of supporting student success and wellbeing that made the school what it was.

Even in the threads here it seems that profit has become the primary concern of the school held in higher regard than customer service or student support. Not to mention the recent graduates that I've had the opportunity to work with who were all from different graduating classes were all genuinely unhappy with their school and the treatment they received during their studies. One graduate even commented that one of his instructors was consistently "high" on prescription medication that altered that person's mentation to the point of non-functioning. 

To say the least I am very disappointed in my alma mater.  :sad: Has anyone else experienced or heard of recent student experiences at AHASTI?


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## hklili

Management at AHSTI is awful. I took my EMR back in Sept '09, it was bad from the start. Aside from my horrendous experience, Dan the instructor was great. Very knowledgeable. Sadly my 2 weeks was short lived, I was too focused on my anger with the company, I paid hardly any attention in class. 

I'll give my two cents about another school that I dislike the most, Kinetic Medical Inc. What a joke! Over priced @ $1,100. No free re-takes, if you fail a written or practical, you must pay $245. Um what? Doesn't stop there. There were 4 different instructors, so naturally, all of the information being taught were jumbled up. No one had a clue which was right or wrong. Everyone had their own opinion. Very unorganized. I should've asked for a refund on the first day. 

On a good note, I passed that class. Thank god because they would've heard from me 24/7.

I recently passed my EMR exam @ ACP (on the first try), BUT that is because I studied the curriculum AHSTI had provided. Yes, I kept all my notes and powerpoints. I did not even bother with Kinetic Medical Inc. They were useless.

So if anything, AHSTI is one of the best school in Calgary despite the management.


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## nomofica

EMR costs approximately $1,100 (cost is including text and corresponding taxes), so I don't know what you're going on about.


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## basejump

I know the guys at kinetic,and they are great instructors and did a ride along with one of them. In terms of school bashing,I don't see a point in it. Pay your tuition,study your arse off and do well. thats all there is to it. $1,100 isn't that bad really..


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## EMSFA

RielHalfbreed - I can't believe that you have actually made a post like this on a public forum about your school and it wasn't even from first hand experience!!! When I went to school, I had people in my class that weren't mature and acted like Diva's. I was thankful that my school didn't give in to this behavior.  I learned right from day one that if I was going to be successful in this industry, I had to be accountable for my actions. So I studied, practiced and asked every question I could. The Diva's in my class didn't make it and I'm glad they were weeded out. Maybe instead of judging AHASTI for 'hear say', be thankful that you took responsibility for your education and were searious about wanting to be a part of this industry. YOU left with a positive AHASTI experience, leave it at that.  

As for the instructor comment - EMS has a bad reputation for 'Eating it's own'. What you are doing is no different. Gossip like this can ruin careers and reputations of excellent medics.


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## kristen

are you taking opinions of people who passed or people who slacked off and failed? i recently took emr at AHASTI and the school was fantastic! all  the staff was really nice from the coordinators to the people at the front desk! dan was a very good instructor he drilled all the main facts in you head and he taught at a good pace! when it came time for ACP  i was more then prepared and found the exams pretty easy!


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## Probie4Life

EMSFA said:


> RielHalfbreed - I can't believe that you have actually made a post like this on a public forum about your school and it wasn't even from first hand experience!!! When I went to school, I had people in my class that weren't mature and acted like Diva's. I was thankful that my school didn't give in to this behavior.  I learned right from day one that if I was going to be successful in this industry, I had to be accountable for my actions. So I studied, practiced and asked every question I could. The Diva's in my class didn't make it and I'm glad they were weeded out. Maybe instead of judging AHASTI for 'hear say', be thankful that you took responsibility for your education and were searious about wanting to be a part of this industry. YOU left with a positive AHASTI experience, leave it at that.
> 
> As for the instructor comment - EMS has a bad reputation for 'Eating it's own'. What you are doing is no different. Gossip like this can ruin careers and reputations of excellent medics.



Well to start off with, I don't know about "Rielhalfbreed's" experience with the school. But I very recently graduated from the AHASTI EMT program though and I can confirm most of his claims. The school doesn't pay any attention to the students unless there's outstanding billing. They offer little or no support in the program even after claiming the opposite in the selection interview. Managers make statements in front of the class like "you chose us, we didn't choose you." The school makes lots of claims and promises they don't keep. There weren't enough practicum spots for the graduating students. One of our instructors freely admitted to using prescription medication for pain management and the effects were blatantly and negatively obvious. 

As for EMS "eating its own": calling students "diva's" because they behaved differently than you did, or required more or different support than you did falls neatly under than category as well. As for gossip ruining careers: How do you work in an industry that claims to be "self-regulating" and then try and restrict criticism or even speculation by your peers? There are a lot of people in EMS and EMS education that shouldn't be, making this known isn't ruining a career, its protecting the reputation of our industry. 

All that being said, the *EMR* program at AHASTI is bar none the best in the industry. Dan is a world class instructor and any student is lucky to have him. That has no bearing on the fact that the EMR and EMT program at AHASTI are worlds apart though. So ultimately to answer your question RH: yes graduating students from AHASTI have had similar experiences to what you describe. However, our education and knowledge are of sufficient quality that we practice as well or better than other graduates, as we persevered to complete the program. I also think it is important though to warn potential students coming into the industry of what they may be getting into especially since there is such a difference between the EMR and EMT program there since that is where they recruit a lot of EMT students.


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## fortsmithman

Personally I'd probably go to take my EMR and EMT at ESA in Sherwood Park.  ESA has a 6 yr CMA accreditation and AHASTI has a 2 yr accreditation.  One of my services EMT's took her EMR at AHASTI and she didn't like her experience she did go to Portage College for her EMT and she recommended Portage for EMR and EMT as well as Paramedic.  For Paramedic I would pick Medicine Hat College BHSc-P program Medicine Hat College has a 6 yr accreditation.


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## InsidiousStealth

ugh now i dont know where to go after reading this thread


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## calamity jane

I initially signed up at AHASTI to do my EMR last summer but after having people in the company inform me several times how I could lose my money and be kicked out (there are many different ways apparently) I decided to go elsewhere.  Glad I did.


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## InsidiousStealth

where did you end up going? And how did you like it?


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## calamity jane

InsidiousStealth said:


> where did you end up going? And how did you like it?



PMA and I liked it.  Every school has issues but I certainly could tolerate the quirks.  Met great people and am going to do the EMT there in the fall.  I feel prepared - through volunteer work and now paid experience I've about 1000 hours under my belt.  It feels good knowing what you're doing so practise when you start getting the skills.

I did the EMR spread over a few months, which was the right choice for me.  I was able to absorb the information and make those connections mentally that I wouldn't have had the time to do in a 2 week condensed whirlwind tour of emergency medicine.  I was able to continue working and just go to class at night and on the weekends.

I guess it's important to realise that you are not going to learn everything in 2 weeks worth of training.  Every school will fall short of your expectation if you expect to become an expert in that time frame.  It's similar to taking a 2 day SFA course.  There is no way to answer all the questions and 'what if' statements in that time frame and also cover the material.

Pick your place (wherever it is, just because I liked PMA doesn't mean that SAIT, AHASTI, SJA, etc might not rock your world), get the text ahead of the class and start reading so you are prepared for the material to be covered in each class.  Try to get comfortable with the material but don't go too far ahead because then you'll waste time trying to re-learn what you read but forgot.  Be ready to put the time in and clear your schedule for the duration of the course, regardless of where you choose.  That's my advice.

I have met people from all the places I mentioned who loved their program and feel prepared.  I also know of people who actively badmouth the other programs and those who take the programs - I don't agree with that approach.  Each program has its issues and let's just see this for what it is, pumping out EMR/EMTs is a business and there are plenty of companies just cranking out medics, some are good and others not so much.

If you want a bit of hand holding and a solid program, PMA for the EMR is great.  I felt prepared to do the ACP exam and did really well.  It's difficult for me to know what it would be like to take the EMR elsewhere.  I was just miffed at AHASTI due to their stick approach so I voted with my feet.  I didn't consider SAIT or SJA to be for me, for whatever reason.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.


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## InsidiousStealth

No that was very helpful. I got a seat at SAIT for EMT in september so I am going to take that...but PMA has always struck my attention...Me and my mom actually did some research on all the places to take EMT and we came to the conclusion that SAIT and PMA are probably the best and most credible. I am just taking this SAIT seat because PMA looks like it might be kind of hard to get into with the whole 150 question entrance exam etc....I just wanted to go to sait cause they said i already have a seat so its less stress on my behalf you know? I should consider doing some volunteer work as well


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## calamity jane

InsidiousStealth said:


> No that was very helpful. I got a seat at SAIT for EMT in september so I am going to take that...but PMA has always struck my attention...Me and my mom actually did some research on all the places to take EMT and we came to the conclusion that SAIT and PMA are probably the best and most credible. I am just taking this SAIT seat because PMA looks like it might be kind of hard to get into with the whole 150 question entrance exam etc....I just wanted to go to sait cause they said i already have a seat so its less stress on my behalf you know? I should consider doing some volunteer work as well



Go with what will work best for you.  If you can pass the ACP exam you can pass a 150 question entrance exam.  I wouldn't be put off by a hoop to jump through because if you can pass the ACP EMR you can pass an entrance exam based on the knowledge from the EMR, which you need to continue on to the EMT anyway... I'm thinking of it as a review before starting the EMT.

Regardless of the hoops, I would want what will work best for me in the actual program once in.  If the way SAIT does things works for you, then go with it.  If you prefer PMA, which is less hand holding in the EMT than the EMR (so I've been told by the people who went through the EMR then straight into the EMT), then go for it.  If it is AHASTI, then do it.

Regardless of where you go, practice your skills.  If that is being paid as an EMR or volunteering, just figure out if you actually have the capacity/interest in doing this kind of work.  Going from zero to hero to *then *find out you hate it is no fun.


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## InsidiousStealth

yeah for sure, well me and my mom were just looking at their accreditation leases and AHASTI, Flatline, and a couple others i cant remember which ones only had like 1 or 2 year leases which were kind of strange...not to mention sketchy...Makes you wonder?

While PMA and Sait had much longer ones [5 years] which you have to question why theirs were shorter you know? We also looked up who the head of PMA was and his history and he basically helped write a bunch of the gap training modules for collegeofparamedics.org and just seems like he would be a good person to go to school for if that makes sense

I feel ya on the entrance exam, i applied at AHASTI originally and their entrance exam and just the vibe of the place kinda threw me off....there were a lot of questions on their entrance exam with material I hadn't even heard of before..

So because of that the entrance exams kinda threw me off a bit...not saying PMA would be the same but it is good practice..but im sure you know what i mean

I did like SAIT though when i took my EMR there my instructor was really good and he was also an ACP instructor so I felt pretty confident of myself.

I studied really hard for ACP though I even went to edmonton a day or 2 early to settle in and go hard...plus i ate a ton of blueberries and strawberries [which i read on the internet beforehand help your brain work better] I passed with a 78


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## Probie4Life

InsidiousStealth said:


> I feel ya on the entrance exam, i applied at AHASTI originally and their entrance exam and just the vibe of the place kinda threw me off....there were a lot of questions on their entrance exam with material I hadn't even heard of before..



The reason the AHASTI entrance exam seems like it covers a lot of material you may not have at SAIT is because it is designed based on their EMR program which is extremely comprehensive in theoretical knowledge, much of which is not tested at ACP either. For any complaints that can be made about the management or EMT program at AHASTI their EMR program is second to none as a result of their instructor, Dan.


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## InsidiousStealth

looks like dan might be gone...unless they have more then one EMR instructor

http://collegeofparamedics.org/pages/Employment/default.aspx?id=1349


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## Probie4Life

InsidiousStealth said:


> looks like dan might be gone...unless they have more then one EMR instructor
> 
> http://collegeofparamedics.org/pages/Employment/default.aspx?id=1349



If that is true it would be a truly tragic development as Dan is/was one of the clearly positive points of AHASTI.


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## AdhesiveMedicalStrip

Probie4Life said:


> If that is true it would be a truly tragic development as Dan is/was one of the clearly positive points of AHASTI.



Considering they have multiple EMR classes running at one time, and this Dan fellow doesn't have super powers - it stands to reason that they would have more than 1 instructor. 

I considered AHASTI for my EMT, because I had friends that went there and loved it, but I knew that it was pretty much boot-camp for 6 months and they advertise it as such, even when you talk to them on the phone. I'm the kind of person that needs my own time and pace, which is why I went with SAIT -- much more laid back. 

I think the main difference between SAIT and AHASTI is that with SAIT's education - it is what you make of it. Yeah, you can pass by sitting on your *** for the most part, but you're not doing yourself any favours. AHASTI doesn't give you that option; They're up front and straight forward about it, and it sounds like they don't like to give an inch if you're ****in' around -- which is their right and quite respectable -- in my filthy opinion. 

As for this whole CMA business - it's just paperwork and jumping through hoops. ACP has higher competency standards than CMA, and I've never really understood why all ACP-accredited schools aren't also CMA approved. I think they're both great schools.

BandAid Out.


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## RyanMidd

AHASTI is CMA accredited now.

Not sure exactly how it works for classes prior to CMA status, but since they were "CMA-Accreditation pending" for several years, but still teaching the same course and standards that GOT them the accreditation, I'd assume we can safely say we took a "CMA-accredited course".

As for lack of instructors, I'm a Red Cross F.A. instructor now, and the EMT head instructor has asked me about EMR instruction before...

Beats working in field ambulances for 2-3 weeks at a time, but I don't know if it would be worth the pay cut, and dealing with lacklustre students who just can't seem to learn from your teaching style and badmouth you as a result.


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## InsidiousStealth

RyanMidd said:


> AHASTI is CMA accredited now.
> 
> Not sure exactly how it works for classes prior to CMA status, but since they were "CMA-Accreditation pending" for several years, but still teaching the same course and standards that GOT them the accreditation, I'd assume we can safely say we took a "CMA-accredited course".
> 
> As for lack of instructors, I'm a Red Cross F.A. instructor now, and the EMT head instructor has asked me about EMR instruction before...
> 
> Beats working in field ambulances for 2-3 weeks at a time, but I don't know if it would be worth the pay cut, and dealing with lacklustre students who just can't seem to learn from your teaching style and badmouth you as a result.



good way to stay sharp on your skills though...looks great on a resume too


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## fortsmithman

RyanMidd said:


> AHASTI is CMA accredited now. I don't know if it would be worth the pay cut, and dealing with lacklustre students who just can't seem to learn from your teaching style and badmouth you as a result.



CMA only gave it a 2 year accreditation as opposed to a 6 year accreditation.  This indicates to me that CMA still has some problems with the AHASTI program.  CMA only accredits EMT/PCP and EMT-P/ACP programs they do not accredit EMR programs for that you would require approval from ACoP.  As with all education programs if students can't learn from the teacher then the teacher cannot teach.  It doesn't matter if the course is EMS related or related to another course of studies such as business administration.  Some People just can teach.  Ryan those that don't have it in them to teach may be outstanding in their fields.  Teaching requires something special that some people don't have.


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## fortsmithman

I noticed Ryan that your training is listed as EMT-A, ACoP dropped the a few years ago.  Here is the link to the registry page of the ACoP site showing the A has been in fact dropped.

http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/pages/Registration/default.aspx


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## InsidiousStealth

CMA only gave it a 2 year accreditation as opposed to a 6 year accreditation. This indicates to me that CMA still has some problems with the AHASTI program.

Yup thats the conclusion I came to as well when I was researching with my mom. Professional Medic Associates and SAIT are the only places in calgary with 6 year accreditations and the rest such as Flatline, AHASTI, etc only have 2 year ones which was why I chose Sait....


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## fortsmithman

AdhesiveMedicalStrip said:


> As for this whole CMA business - it's just paperwork and jumping through hoops. ACP has higher competency standards than CMA, and I've never really understood why all ACP-accredited schools aren't also CMA approved. I think they're both great schools.
> 
> BandAid Out.



If you want to practice in another jurisdiction then you need to have graduated from a CMA accredited program.


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## fortsmithman

I wonder what it would be like if we just got rid of EMR and EMT and just did Paramedic.  MDs don't have to be PAs and RNs don't have to be LPNs so why is EMS different why is it.  As well Paramedic should be a 4 year Bachelors degree and not 2 year program as it is now.  This would be in line with a growing number of medical/public safety careers.


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## AHASTI

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the posts. I just wanted to clear up a couple of comments made. Yes Dan is still one of our instructors, we offer several courses at different locations and we are expanding our instructor base, which is why we have a posting out right now. It is not uncommon for a school to have more than one instructor.

We do currently have a two year accreditation with CMA. It is very common to start with two years, as CMA often requires things to be fixed or reviewed in order to upgrade a school to a six year accreditation. However, to be accredited shows how close to their final standard we are. The accreditation process is very long, and is broken into several phases, which is why we were pending for so long as we went through the first phases. Please also keep in mind that the only requirement for an Alberta program is that you are approved by ACP, CMA is really only used for students that plan to move outside of Alberta with their training. Some schools are also older than others, which would also explain the reasoning why some have 6 year, some two and some none. This is not sketchy, just the way it is.

We do have accelerated programs here, and as mentioned by others, they are not for everyone. We understand everyone learns differently, and at different paces, which is why we try to be as up front as possible about what the expectations of the courses. We do offer the EMR as part time and full time, currently we offer EMT only as full time.

The content we teach for EMR and EMT is the scope of practice, right from AOCPs, NOCPs, and Gap. We don't teach above it and what ACP chooses to test on is up to them, but we have to ensure our students are ready for everything (or as close as we can get them).

There are several great schools in Calgary (and Alberta as a whole), each one teaches to the same end result/goals, they just provide it in different methods, schedules etc. As with every industry, you can not make everyone happy, we try, but it isn't possible. We just ask that you are providing facts and not just starting the rumor mill.

As always, in any education/career choice, do your research, choose what works best for you, and what will help you be most successful.

If you have questions or have feedback for us, feel free to ask or let us know. We do honestly take it into consideration and make adjustments where needed. We all try to help you as best as possible here, and will be honest with our answers.

I hope you all have a great summer!


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## RielHalfbreed

fortsmithman said:


> I wonder what it would be like if we just got rid of EMR and EMT and just did Paramedic.  MDs don't have to be PAs and RNs don't have to be LPNs so why is EMS different why is it.  As well Paramedic should be a 4 year Bachelors degree and not 2 year program as it is now.  This would be in line with a growing number of medical/public safety careers.



FSM: Medicine Hat College offers a Bachelor of Applied Health Sciences in Paramedicine with only an EMR pre-requisite.


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## fortsmithman

RielHalfbreed said:


> FSM: Medicine Hat College offers a Bachelor of Applied Health Sciences in Paramedicine with only an EMR pre-requisite.



I just checked the Medicine Hat College web site and EMR is not a requirement to attend.  It is a pre req i you choose the transfer route to enter.  Thet have the following entry paths taken from the web site.

http://www.mhc.ab.ca/ProgramsandCourses/Academic Programs/Programs of Study/Paramedic.aspx

High School

Overall average of at least 60% and a minimum mark of 50% in

ELA 30-1
Biology 30
Pure Math 30
Grade 12 five credit subject (Chemistry 30 is recommended)
Mature Route

This route is applicable if you are 21 years of age or older and have qualifications that do not satisfy other admission routes. You must submit a letter detailing how your work, life, or other educational experiences would contribute to your success in the program. A limited number of seats are available in the route.

Transfer Route

Previous post-secondary coursework may be considered for admission. Successful completion of a PCP/EMT or EMR program may qualify you for consideration under this admission route.

Academic Transition Plan (ATP)

If you do not possess all of the admission requirements, the Academic Transition Plan (ATP) may provide conditional acceptance to this program, provided space is available. ATP is individualized to meet your needs.

Pre-Professional Requirements

After being admitted into the program, you must provide

proof of current CPR with any one of the following CPR certificates:
Heart & Stroke Heartsaver AED (C)
Canadian Red Cross Level B
St. John Ambulance Level C
Standard First Aid Certificate
A recent Police Information Check (within two months) prior to the first day of classes. Periodic Police Information Checks may be required prior to practicum and work experience to maintain current status throughout the program and to comply with provincial laws. Students are obligated to inform the Program Coordinator immediately of any change in the status of their criminal record.
Degree Continuation - Post Diploma or Post Certificate Entry

ELA 30-1
Current Advanced Care Paramedic license in the province you are located
Continued employment as an Advanced Care Paramedic


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## CANDawg

Just a note, some of the information in this thread regarding accreditations is wrong. Here is direct from the CMA website, as of November 26, 2012:

*EMT*
_6 Year_

Emergency Services Academy
Flatline Response
NAIT
SAIT

_2 Year_

Alberta Health and Safety Training Institute
Lakeland College
Northern Lakes College
Portage College
Professional Medical Associates

This is direct from: http://www.cma.ca/index.php/ci_id/50602/la_id/1.htm. Specifically I note that PMA only has a two year accreditation, not a 6 year one as was previously mentioned. This may have changed since 2010 however. (Interpret that as you will.)

I would most definitely not put all my eggs in the CMA basket though, as the three schools with the worst reputations in EMS training in Alberta are all under the 6 year accreditation, and there are a couple very good schools with only 2 year accreditation.


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## Earthworm Jim

Well I've heard lots of mixed reviews about AHASTI lately, but I did my EMR refresher there last month and overall I was pretty happy with it, the instructor was good, the rest of the staff was friendly, and everything went smoothly.
I'm not expecting someone to hold my hand through my schooling, some support here and there is nice, but I think they're doing a pretty good job.
I'll be taking the EMT program there in January and I will let everyone know what my thoughts are, if anyone is still interested.


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## technocardy

InsidiousStealth said:


> No that was very helpful. I got a seat at SAIT for EMT in september so I am going to take that...but PMA has always struck my attention...Me and my mom actually did some research on all the places to take EMT and we came to the conclusion that SAIT and PMA are probably the best and most credible. I am just taking this SAIT seat because PMA looks like it might be kind of hard to get into with the whole 150 question entrance exam etc....I just wanted to go to sait cause they said i already have a seat so its less stress on my behalf you know? I should consider doing some volunteer work as well



I took my EMT through PMA and it was an excellent school. The entrance exam was a good challenge, consisting of 3 parts. Part 1: Aptitude test which had everything in it. Part 2: Fairly basic EMR scenario and Part 3: An interview with the head instructor. While doing the aptitude test they'll randomly pull people out of the exam room to go do either the interview or the scenario.

I believe 48 people applied and only 10 got in, with 2 transfers from another class. It's well worth it. Excellent instructors. I got a great practicum site without having to wait. School administration is very helpful.

[I know this post is old, I just wanted to put in my .02 in case anyone else was considering PMA...]


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