# EMTs & Speeding



## Amack (Jun 26, 2007)

Do you think that LEOs will give more leniency upon realizing that the person they just bagged for doing 75 in a 65  is an EMT, versus that of somebody otherwise? 


Another student and I were talking about this in  EMT class. (He wants to be a state cop)



What are your thoughts about this concept of "professional courtesy" ?


Is it ethical, or subtly appropriate? 
(Since EMTs and LEOs are in the same profession of public service)


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## DT4EMS (Jun 26, 2007)

Amack said:


> Do you think that LEOs will give more leniency upon realizing that the person they just bagged for doing 75 in a 65  is an EMT, versus that of somebody otherwise?
> 
> 
> Another student and I were talking about this in  EMT class. (He wants to be a state cop)
> ...



As an EMT then as a Medic, I never "expected" to get anything. The best advice is to not be a hypocrit. WHen I worked the street as a police officer I stopped several off-duty EMS folks for speeding.

I didn't extend them any different courtesy than what I gave the "average" citizen. ( I wrote about 10 out of every 100 cars I would stop for speeding, the rest were warnings)

I have worked with officers who did in fact issue a summons to EMS that were speeding. Most officers do extend a courtesy............. by if you speed, you may meet the one who doesn't. A speeding ticket on your license can be a bad thing if you are trying to get a job in EMS.

Remember the transfer of Kinetic Energy........... speed does kill.


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## Emtgirl21 (Jun 26, 2007)

Oh i got a ticket in my uniform in front of my station for 36 in a 20....which had been until the day before a 35. I had just gotten off work...we had been sooo busy and i just wanted to go to sleep....he didnt care. PUNK


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## VentMedic (Jun 26, 2007)

Amack said:


> Do you think that LEOs will give more leniency upon realizing that the person they just bagged for doing 75 in a 65  is an EMT, versus that of somebody otherwise?



I believe you should be held to an even higher standard. If you have worked any MVCs then you should know a little more than "somebody else" about the end results of speeding.  Expecting professional courtesy does sound hypocritical and selfish. 

What example or message does this give to the public about you as a professional if they see you speeding around town in your POV especially if you are wearing your uniform? 

I used to take EMT students from the ER rotation if time allowed and give them a tour of our very large (90 beds) Sub-Acute wing at the hospital. During an hour of helping me "maintain and drain" the "living dead", they get a closer look at the results of kinetic energy.  It actually doesn't take that much speed to rearrange the gray matter and make an injury permanent enough to change one's life forever.  This may sound harsh, but this week I'm assisting in getting a handsome young 22 y/o placed in a nursing home. It has been determined he is not a candidate for rehab. He too was just going a few miles over the speed limit when another car cut him off.  

You may think you know your driving skills, but there are always the person's skills or lack of in the car next to you.

With this age of technology and public "witnesses", I would also think a police officer would be cautious about giving preference to one and not another.


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## Tincanfireman (Jun 26, 2007)

And may I add... 

if you are pulled over, don't be an arrogant fool and demand that the cop let you go with a warning just because you work for So-and-So agency/company/whatever and you therefore shouldn't be cited.  It makes a bad impression on you, probably won't do a thing about getting the citation changed and probably won't help the reputation of said employer and your co-workers either.  Just my .02; your mileage may vary...


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## VentMedic (Jun 26, 2007)

I am going to add that many times LEOs do give professional courtesy to a rescue unit or ambulance that is caught/witnessed speeding. The LEO may place a call directly to the dispatch of that company. This happened occasionally when I was a field supervisor.  The LEO's call would be transferred to me. If it was that crew's first offense that I knew about, I would assure the LEO that I would take care of it. If it was a repeat offender, I would tell the LEO that he/she could do whatever necessary when they reached the hospital if loaded with a patient or before if they were endangering safety of themselves and others (this was very rare).  I would then make arrangements to get that truck back inservice by pulling someone from a tranport unit or use someone catching up on paperwork/training if necessary.  I usually considered both members of the crew guilty since they are partners.  Sometimes I would send a mechanic team to drive the truck and crew members back. Both members would then be given a written warning and depending on the severity, may be put back through a remedial driver training course.


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## knxemt1983 (Jun 27, 2007)

well I come from a LEO family, and all I will say is that yes they often do give us a break, and depending on the size of the area you work in, you may or may not know the officer personally. Most of the officers in this area see it as a professional courtesy, and will notify the cheif or captain or just let it go. 

This does not mean it's ok, ethical or even the right thing and we should not expect it. Contacting the supervisor is good, that lets them know who is driving reckless before it gets someone hurt, and if it is your full time job it gives you a chance to do better since your job could depend on it.

like I said before, we shouldn't expect to get a break, or think they owe us a break because they don't.


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## Summit (Jun 27, 2007)

LEOs almost always give professional courtesy to EMS vehicles although they may call your supervisor.

Some LEOs may sometimes give limited professional courtesy in some circumstances for EMS in their POVs beyond what discretion they might offer to a civilian (it helps to be wearing a uniform).


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## firecoins (Jun 27, 2007)

why are cops pulling over ambulances?  Do they pull over fire trucks as well?  WTF?  

Cops have given me a pass as professional coutesey.  Some didn't.  Best not to get pulled over to begin with.


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## Emtgirl21 (Jun 27, 2007)

If I am loaded with a patient and headed to the hospital and i'm "haulin balls" there is a reason and I will be DANGED if i am pulling over!


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## MMiz (Jun 27, 2007)

I know of some coworkers who have received a ticket while driving to or from work.

Every few months a PD will call us and turn in a unit for speeding or doing something else that wasn't appropriate.

I always thought that I'd be extended a break if I let them know that I taught in the city and also worked as an EMT in the city, but I haven't been pulled over yet.


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## RedZone (Jun 27, 2007)

Deleted my reply.


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## VentMedic (Jun 27, 2007)

firecoins said:


> why are cops pulling over ambulances?  Do they pull over fire trucks as well?  WTF?



It's easier for an ambulance to abuse the privilege of speed.  I am also going to go out on a limb here, remembering my fire academy days, we were taught how much a fire truck weighs, its imbalances and lack of control if driven recklessly.  EVOC for ambulances...not the same. Although, I know first hand at how easily an ambulance can tip and roll.

Believe me, a fire truck driving recklessly will get noticed and has been noticed by the public and LEOs. They are usually headliners in the local news. Speeding ambulances rarely get that much attention in the newspapers unless they hurt or kill someone.   

The LEO does not have to pull you over. If you are living in a major city, your speed, vehicle number and face are being recorded by cameras throughout the city. It will then be at the discretion of the city officials as to whether you will be ticketed.  The same ambulance and face seen too many times driving at a high rate of speed may be a red flag.  If you are involved in an accident, there may be a whole new case precedent if the city knew about your speeding and did nothing.  By speeding, I mean more than what your local protocols define for ambulances on emergency calls. No call, well that leaves your tail hangin' out there. 

And then to get into your POV and think you should be allowed to speed because you're an EMT!

Being loaded with a patient is exactly why good judgement should be used when running fast to the hospital. There have been literally hundreds of studies done on this during the last 30 years. The few seconds, minute or two saved is not worth your life, the life of another and the patient's life. 

I've been to the accidents scenes involving either fire trucks or ambulances. It is not a pretty sight especially if it is a co-worker or friend trapped under the wreckage.  

Just use caution and good judgement.


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## knxemt1983 (Jun 28, 2007)

very good point, one thing I notice about our evoc is that it is mainly defensive driving, there is some about performance, but just because you are an emt makes it no safer than any other time, also how are you doing your pt good if you are running emergency and have a wreck, it only burns the golden hour even more.

I know we have all heard it a thousand times, but whether we are on the way to a call or transporting from one, we owe it to our pt's and communities to be safe, if we wreck we hurt our pt, or at the least put extra burden on our ems sytem byt taking a truck, and crew out of commission and the other units that have to come to scrape us up. I dont know who here has ever had to work a co-workers wreck, but I have and it is hard to do.


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## RichmondMedik (Jul 4, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> If I am loaded with a patient and headed to the hospital and i'm "haulin balls" there is a reason and I will be DANGED if i am pulling over!



If you are "haulin balls" it won't be long before you are the one in need of the ambulance yourself.

there is absolutly NO reason for a person to speed anywhere in a vehicle that is top heavy and unbalanced

as others have said before " speed Kills " and I always tell people who drive for me " It's not my emergency so don't make it mine" 

where do people have to be that is so important nowadays that they need to go 10 - 20 mph over the speed limit 

do some research online about how much time is saved by running with lights and sirens -- surprisingly little 

We are suppose to be professionals not only in our treatment of patients but how we conduct ourselves in front of John Q. Public


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## Emtgirl21 (Jul 4, 2007)

I've never had a complaint about my driving. Knock on wood!!! Would like to see how you drive when your medic is working a cardiac arrest or priority one stabbing to the chest and hollering at you to "get him there now".


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## VentMedic (Jul 4, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> I've never had a complaint about my driving. Knock on wood!!! Would like to see how you drive when your medic is working a cardiac arrest or priority one stabbing to the chest and hollering at you to "get him there now".



Many years ago I learned there were 3 reasons for speed:
1. Obstructed airway that you do not have the skills to alleviate.

2. Uncontrolled blood loss that you can not slow.

3. Medical incompetence or lack of professional confidence in the   back.   I would then be putting my bid in for a new partner. 

One must be able to focus on the patient in order to effectively attempt resuscitation. If the crew in the back is hanging on for their own life or off balance, then care will not be effective. If an EMT or Paramedic is unrestrained and doing compressions, they will easily be thrown off balance and just a sharp turn can severely injure them.  

Being able to establish good care for the patient, assess accurately and relay this information clearly to the receiving hospital will be more effective than speed. Trauma and code teams will be able to ready themselves appropriately and THAT will save time.


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## Ridryder911 (Jul 4, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> I've never had a complaint about my driving. Knock on wood!!! Would like to see how you drive when your medic is working a cardiac arrest or priority one stabbing to the chest and hollering at you to "get him there now".



I agree with Vent. Do a little basic mathematics. The most you will save is about 3-4 minutes (that is even at double the speed for >15 miles). 

If your partner can't handle an arrest ...they need to go back to school. The patient is already dead, they can't get any worse. 

The stabbing patient, again the most you are going to save them is about 3-4 minutes... and again, in reality that is not going to save their lives, if they were that severe. Consider this, no matter how severe that patient is .. the surgeon will still do that 3 minute scrub in washing their hands... again, it is the patient's emergency, not theirs. Why increase you & your partners life, the patient's, and especially other drivers?

Personally, there are very, veryfew times I return with lights and sirens. Even in cardiac arrest, I may return without L/S.

Knowledge is the key, not speed. 

R/r 911


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## knxemt1983 (Jul 4, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> I agree with Vent. Do a little basic mathematics. The most you will save is about 3-4 minutes (that is even at double the speed for >15 miles).
> 
> If your partner can't handle an arrest ...they need to go back to school. The patient is already dead, they can't get any worse.
> 
> ...


I agree with the fact that the speed only saves a few minutes, and more than likely will make no difference with a competent medic. Time is saved with smooth driving and intersection negotiation if you are say in downtown traffic in a city. It is in the pt's best interest to have a medic who knows how to care for them, and a driver who knows how to allow that medic to safely work in the back


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## jmaccauley (Jul 4, 2007)

A few things come to mind when I hear of the "exceptions" to the speed limit. First of all, unless you are in a rural area with good roads and high visability, excessive speed is gambling with your patients life. Second, as someone mentioned, does your EVOC training address excessive speed? If not, you may be trying to drive your rig the same way thay you operate your POV. 
Next, the issue of a cardiac patient patient or a knife wound being actively worked in the back. When "Murphy" shows up and you have to slam on the brakes or otherwise perform some emergency evasive maneuver, you probably just created more problems for your patient. I have done tests in several cities about response time going code or driving at posted speeds. There is very little difference in time. On the other hand, just the sound of our siren tends to elevate our heart rate and adrenaline to the point where you are driving with tunnel vision, and much slower reactionary ability. 
As for professional courtesy, most people who exhibit courtesy receive courtesy. Cops do have a good relationship with other public safety personnel, but it's not to be counted on as a "given."


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## firetender (Jul 4, 2007)

Here's a bit of a reality check from my POV.

Driving an ambulance, out of necessity, requires you to develop a completely different skill-set than driving your own vehicle. If you do not train yourself to immediately amp your alertness level up a couple hundred percent, you're not doing your job. (Most of us learn to do this in the ambulance and then bring that level of awareness to our personal driving.) 

No matter whether you're going to or from a call, the stakes are high. Situations that ambulances find themselves in are often quite different than what Ma and Pa Grunch encounter. In a lot of respects, an ambulance responding to an emergency call becomes an inadvertent target, just because it draws attention to itself and most people do not know how to respond to emergencies themselves.

You must develop a very sharp sense of timing, speed, spatial relationships (like getting through the bottleneck without losing your side-view mirror!) and knowing the limits of every vehicle you drive. Equally important, is learning patience.

Unfortunately, moment-to-moment situations have no repect for written laws. If you're in the field long enough you will find yourself pushing the edge of the envelope and acting out of the box out of necessity, and, yes, laws will be broken along the way. Sometimes you'll make an error in judgment, but that's part of the learning curve that gets you to becoming more proficient -- as long as you learn.

If you're in a town where you get to know the local Police, hopefully, they'll give you a break only when and if their read of the circumstances and knowledge of you as a responsible medic are in synch. Just like everyone else, if you run a risk you need to accept the consequences. Cops also know what it means to have to "think at high speed." Hopefully, it's a matter of individual respect rather than blind, professional courtesy extended to you.

My point is, I think we're lying to ourselves if we say we don't think differently, and, given the right circumstances will act differently behind the wheel than the prescribed (or even legal) approaches.

It truly is a matter of carrying a heightened sense of responsibility along with the new skill-set you're asked to develop.


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## Mercy4Angels (Jul 4, 2007)

look a bit over the limit is fine but say 50 in a 25 is not necissary


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## RichmondMedik (Jul 5, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> I've never had a complaint about my driving. Knock on wood!!! Would like to see how you drive when your medic is working a cardiac arrest or priority one stabbing to the chest and hollering at you to "get him there now".



I drive the same no matter what is going on !!!

others have already said it in other posts --  a competent Medic will treat the patient no matter what is going on and the person driving will drive professionally 

as for the "Cardiac arrest" the person is already dead and we can do almost the same drug/treatment wise in the field as they can in the E/R -- not talking about definitive care for the ROSC

and if the "Medic" you are with is "hollering at you" then tell him to take his own pulse and to calm down -- we are suppose to diffuse the stress in an emergency situation NOT add to it


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## Ridryder911 (Jul 5, 2007)

There are some major cities now not allowing return to ER with L/S except in very few limited circumstances... i.e CVA, STEMI AMI, etc.. Not even the cardiac arrest .. etc. is allowed. Most progressive services now have protocols for arrival of pre-cardiac arrest is to work into the second round of ALS medications, if no response from aystole is to call it quits. No documented outcome has been proven past that point. As well field ALS cardiac arrest has a better outcome percentage than in-hospital ones. Prior traumatic arrest should be called called as well, with very little to no positive outcome is known. 

I believe we will see a major shift of how many decreased responses back to the hospital with L/S will occur in the future. The time saved is minimal, the risks is extremely high, and as the increased number of EVU crashes within the past 5 years, something has to be done.

I have to admit, I have accepted professional courtesy... and there are times, when I have received the deserved fine. No gripe... it's the law for a reason. We are not above it, because we ride in a EMS unit.. 

R/r 911


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## jmaccauley (Jul 5, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> Oh i got a ticket in my uniform in front of my station for 36 in a 20....which had been until the day before a 35. I had just gotten off work...we had been sooo busy and i just wanted to go to sleep....he didnt care. PUNK



LOL, I just saw that post. Seriously, if you want to be treated as a professional, you have to act professionally. You gave 3 quick reasons for your fast driving (and the uniform really shouldn't count). You were tired, busy and didn't notice the speed limit sign. 

Now, how do you treat your patients when you're tired, busy and you just want to go to sleep? Do you skip steps? Do you just hand them off to another medic? Do you miss vital signs and symptoms? I know, it's sounds like I'm picking on you, but none of those excuses warrant courtesy. You were speeding. No excuse. I would warn you that the limits have changed and to slow down, only if you acknowledged that you were speeding. 
And seriously...punk?


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## firecoins (Jul 5, 2007)

jmaccauley said:


> LOL, I just saw that post. Seriously, if you want to be treated as a professional, you have to act professionally. You gave 3 quick reasons for your fast driving (and the uniform really shouldn't count). You were tired, busy and didn't notice the speed limit sign.
> 
> Now, how do you treat your patients when you're tired, busy and you just want to go to sleep? Do you skip steps? Do you just hand them off to another medic? Do you miss vital signs and symptoms? I know, it's sounds like I'm picking on you, but none of those excuses warrant courtesy. You were speeding. No excuse. I would warn you that the limits have changed and to slow down, only if you acknowledged that you were speeding.
> And seriously...punk?



A blitz by cops to enforce the new speed limit knowing very well people are used top the old limit is a little less than honest by the police.  I am curious how many tickets have been given to off duty cops? They should be held to higher limit but they have to enforce it on themselves.  Someone always says EMS should be held to a higher limit because we respond to mvas but I don't see that as legitamate when law enforcement responds to the same mvas and get away with speeding and other minor offenses.  So stop with the holier than thou attitude on speeding.


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## VentMedic (Jul 5, 2007)

I agree with the limited use of L/S. When I was on the trucks FT, I always liked to make a composed entrance into the ER.  Now that I'm on the other side in the ER, I can appreciate this even more. There is nothing more frustrating then trying to listen to the incoming call that just sounds like sirens and screaming like the devil is chasing them. Some of these patients come through the door with barely BLS done on an ALS truck.  If the patient looks more coherent and competent than the crew, then that is who we'll take our report from first while the paramedic is trying to compose him/herself.


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## jmaccauley (Jul 5, 2007)

firecoins said:


> A blitz by cops to enforce the new speed limit knowing very well people are used top the old limit is a little less than honest by the police.  I am curious how many tickets have been given to off duty cops? They should be held to higher limit but they have to enforce it on themselves.  Someone always says EMS should be held to a higher limit because we respond to mvas but I don't see that as legitamate when law enforcement responds to the same mvas and get away with speeding and other minor offenses.  So stop with the holier than thou attitude on speeding.



Taking this a little personally aren't you? I don't remember discussing a "blitz" or anything dishonest. Professional courtesy is a debatable topic even among law enforcement officers. Some give it freely, others sparingly. Either way, most officers have, and exercise, discretion on each traffic stop. My concern with this thread has to do with on duty driving, but you bring up a good point. How many fire fighters and medics, as well as police officers get tickets off duty? I couldn't tell you. But I can tell you that flaunting your job (or badge) won't fly with most. Usually, nurses and waitresses actually fall into the "good guy" category too, and if the circumstances warrant it, meaning they are courteous, discretion can be used.
If you think you are above getting a ticket, maybe it's you with the "holier than thou attitude." If you wish to continue this privately, feel free.


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## VentMedic (Jul 5, 2007)

jmaccauley said:


> But I can tell you that flaunting your job (or badge) won't fly with most. Usually, nurses and waitresses actually fall into the "good guy" category too, and if the circumstances warrant it, meaning they are courteous, discretion can be used.
> If you think you are above getting a ticket, maybe it's you with the "holier than thou attitude." If you wish to continue this privately, feel free.



25 years ago I thought it was my stunning good looks and charming personality, not the uniform or job, that got me out of a couple of tickets.

And yes, that could be another issue in itself. 

I was constantly reminded by my superiors that wearing a uniform and working with the public in plain view carried some responsibility both on and off duty. I know LEOs are reminded of this responsibility also.  Granting professional courtesy without discretion is an issue that can put them in the spotlight very easily even amongst themselves.  I believe that giving *AND* accepting professional courtesy bears a certain responsibility in itself.


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## eggshen (Jul 5, 2007)

Here being a medic for the city is like being mobbed up. Short of homocide you are free to go about your business. Not that that means we act the fool but it is nice when you need it.

Egg


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## klogerg (Jul 6, 2007)

If your in your POV, before or after work, you are a private citizen, you are no longer anyone special, just another person "livin the dream".  Personally, I almost never speed in my POV, no need.  As for at work, nothing is worth risking my own safety.  I remember when i first started EMS about a year ago, I was speeding, not wearing my seatbelt because I didnt need to, and all that jazz.  Now, theres no need.  I like my job, I enjoy it, and at the end of the day i feel i did someone some good, but in the end, its just a job.  Dont be foolish/arrogant.  On or off duty, be smart, be safe, and never assume you'll catch a break for anything.


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## Emtgirl21 (Jul 6, 2007)

jmaccauley said:


> LOL, I just saw that post. Seriously, if you want to be treated as a professional, you have to act professionally. You gave 3 quick reasons for your fast driving (and the uniform really shouldn't count). You were tired, busy and didn't notice the speed limit sign.
> 
> Now, how do you treat your patients when you're tired, busy and you just want to go to sleep? Do you skip steps? Do you just hand them off to another medic? Do you miss vital signs and symptoms? I know, it's sounds like I'm picking on you, but none of those excuses warrant courtesy. You were speeding. No excuse. I would warn you that the limits have changed and to slow down, only if you acknowledged that you were speeding.
> And seriously...punk?




I ah have a comment to make to this.....but it's really not very nice. So I'm going to refrain. So ummm yeah....anyways...


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## Emtgirl21 (Jul 6, 2007)

Klog....did you just say EMS is "just a job"....you funny boy!


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## ffemt8978 (Jul 6, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> I ah have a comment to make to this.....but it's really not very nice. So I'm going to refrain. So ummm yeah....anyways...



Smart choice


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## jmaccauley (Jul 6, 2007)

I guess your comment was defensive in nature. I don't imagine you couldn't be nice. Feel free to contact me privately if you think someone may be offended.


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## firecoins (Jul 6, 2007)

In another thread about this topic, I made the point that alot of speeding tickets are given out for the fine, to raise money. Stopping unsafe driving took a back seat...pun intended.  It seems Virginia's road dept. is broke. From the USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-29-Va-new-driving-laws_N.htm



> In an effort to raise money for road projects, the state will start hitting residents who commit serious traffic offenses with huge civil penalties.
> 
> The new civil charges will range from $750 to $3,000 and be added to existing fines and court costs. The civil penalty for going 20 mph over the speed limit will be $1,050, plus $61 in court costs and a fine that is typically about $200.


I can see the responses now. But this is only for "serious traffic offenses". My preemptive reply is in NY and NJ area tend to 10 to 15 miles above the limit normally. My 2 tickets were at 21 and 24 miles over the limit. No one here pulles you over for less than than 20.  So does that warrent a $1000 plus ticket?  Only if the road dept needs more money.


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## BossyCow (Jul 6, 2007)

I live in a very rural area.  I know most of the cops personnally and have worked at least one wreck with each of the troopers.  I was stopped once, for speeding, unrelated to a call, in my POV.  The lecture I got was worse than a ticket.  So was the humiliation as everyone in town heard about it.  Including the deputy who oversees our SAR unit.  Public shaming worked for me!

I used to be quite a lead foot behind the wheel.  After working an MVA, car vs. tree with a speeding driver who didn't make the turn, I started rethinking my need to get anywhere fast.  We found parts of this guy 50' away from the burned out hulk of what was left of his car.  They found his teeth imbedded into the tree.  

What I've seen has taught me that it doesn't matter how good a driver one of the cars has, if the other driver isn't.  We have deer, elk and the occasional horse or cow that wanders out into the road.  Things can happen in front of the car quickly and without warning.  You improve your reaction time by keeping your speed down.  

A good exercise is to look at that car who just passed you  and count how many seconds faster they get to the next intersection or their turn off.  Its generally only 10 - 15 seconds faster.


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## klogerg (Jul 6, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> Klog....did you just say EMS is "just a job"....you funny boy!



Yeh, I'm a real hoot. funny aside to all of this, the person i worked with today was amazd that I wore my seatbelt.  Not to put this thread off topic, but any thoughts from anyone?


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## firecoins (Jul 7, 2007)

klogerg said:


> Yeh, I'm a real hoot. funny aside to all of this, the person i worked with today was amazd that I wore my seatbelt.  Not to put this thread off topic, but any thoughts from anyone?



if your dumb enough not to wear a seatbelt, you deserve what you get.


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## Flight-LP (Jul 7, 2007)

If you work with my agency and get caught without a seatbelt, you are terminated, no questions asked. As it should be...................


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## jeepmedic (Jul 7, 2007)

I am a LEO and a Paramedic and still got a ticket in an Ambulance. So I guess there is none.


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## Emtgirl21 (Jul 7, 2007)

I always wear my seatbelt in my POV. I wear my seatbelt "most" of the time in the ambulance....almost when we are going code when I'm in the front. Patient care is kinda different. If its a LONG distance trip most likely....if i am actively treating my patient chances are....not gonna happen. I preach seatbelts to all the new EMT's and EMT students that I get the chance to have in the back of my truck because i know it saves lives and i've seen it save lives but I think it's a habit ya just have to form and stick with.


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## Chakram82 (Jul 13, 2007)

I think it's best to just wear your seatbelt and obey the speed limit.


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## firecoins (Jul 13, 2007)

jeepmedic said:


> I am a LEO and a Paramedic and still got a ticket in an Ambulance. So I guess there is none.



I will never understand why ambulances get pulled over for speeding.  Sorry, I know my views are unpopular on speeding ambulances.  I think speeding ambulances can be an exceptions. All emergerncy vehicles should be.  If the driver is doing something other than simply speeding like cutting people off and driving wrecklessly outside of speeding, okay than.  I just have a real problem with cops pulling over rigs.


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## lostmedic (Jul 13, 2007)

*Lead foot*

I am one of those people with a lead foot.  I have an ems sticker on my car and a sticker that says I am a Navy Corpsman.  other than that, if I speed (which happens more than I like) and If I get pulled over, I think I deserve a ticket.  I don't try to talk my way out of it.  if the officer gives me "Professional Courtsey" so be it.  but I don't ask for it.  

a police officer once told me, "Hey everytime you have broken the speed limit, did you get a ticket?" which I said no.  so then he said well then, all the times you did not get a ticket, you should consider that your "Lucky" time.


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## jmaccauley (Jul 14, 2007)

firecoins said:


> I will never understand why ambulances get pulled over for speeding.  Sorry, I know my views are unpopular on speeding ambulances.  I think speeding ambulances can be an exceptions. All emergerncy vehicles should be.  If the driver is doing something other than simply speeding like cutting people off and driving wrecklessly outside of speeding, okay than.  I just have a real problem with cops pulling over rigs.



How often does this really happen? Seriously, I'm sure there are some police officers who would pull over an ambulance going code, but I personally have never seen it. Just for the record, I've been a cop for 27 years in a large metro area. I can honestly say that I have wanted to pull over some transport ambulances who are driving like mad when I know that the paramedics are already on scene, but I haven't personally done it. Now, off duty...well lets just say that professional courtesy exists, but it is not uniformly extended nor is it expected.


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## VentMedic (Jul 14, 2007)

Sometimes the ambulance crews do not see the havoc their speed and manuevers can bring on busy roadways.  I have had to respond to accident scenes that even though the police officers wanted to go after the ambulance crew, they was busy sorting out the mess created by frequent and fast lane changes of the ambulance on a busy highway.   

Usually the LEO will just put the message through their dispatch to drive smarter. Sometimes it just takes a little reminder that the EMS vehicles are big, heavy and may not be able to maneuver like a POV.


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## 94accord (Jul 14, 2007)

I have been given professional curtesy on two occasions, both of which should have been a ticket and points on my license. I am torn between what i know is right and what a perfect world would be like. Yes I like prefessional curtesy, no I do not think we should get away with it. However, I am not going to complain on the off chance I get it. I am less than 6 months away from having a totally clean record and I am planning on keeping it that way and not having to rely on any LEO being nice.


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## firecoins (Jul 15, 2007)

jmaccauley said:


> How often does this really happen? Seriously, I'm sure there are some police officers who would pull over an ambulance going code, but I personally have never seen it. Just for the record, I've been a cop for 27 years in a large metro area. I can honestly say that I have wanted to pull over some transport ambulances who are driving like mad when I know that the paramedics are already on scene, but I haven't personally done it. Now, off duty...well lets just say that professional courtesy exists, but it is not uniformly extended nor is it expected.



I have no idea how often it happens. Hopefully not much. I am responding to people who say it happend to them.

As I said, fast lane changes with car accidents left behind is not speeding.  If an ambulance is causing destruction behind it is another story to a simple traffic infraction.


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## babygirl2882 (Jul 16, 2007)

*What happens when u take ur ambulance for a joy ride*


http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/red/red_player.html?id=429&link=REDshlk

Don't be like this ambulance 

PS That sight is AWSOME! It has some amazing video...check them out


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## jmaccauley (Jul 16, 2007)

firecoins said:


> I have no idea how often it happens. Hopefully not much. I am responding to people who say it happend to them.
> 
> As I said, fast lane changes with car accidents left behind is not speeding.  If an ambulance is causing destruction behind it is another story to a simple traffic infraction.



I thought maybe this has happened to you, since you have a problem with it. I guess that was just a hypothetical complaint.

O.K., I'll ask the group. How often do police pull over ambulances? Has anyone here been stopped while driving code to a call or enroute to the hospital? I'm asking as a legitimate question, not to challenge anyone. Is the problem work related or off duty?


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## BossyCow (Jul 16, 2007)

I've been waved at as I pass, but never pulled over while in a rig driving code, either to or from a call.  But, let me add, I'm not travelling at an unsafe rate of speed, nor am I weaving around cars, running red lights or otherwise being a hazard to those around me.   I see running code as a privledge and a responsibility not permission to drive dangerously.


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## firetender (Jul 16, 2007)

This is ancient history, though I wouldn't be surprised if it still goes on. When I worked in Florida, if an LD took us out of our home county we had to make sure we had a radar interceptor because the PD in other counties would pull us over for whatever they could pop us for. And with that, I wonder aloud if y'all find you tend to speed (and tweak the rules) a little more in your home territory?


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## VentMedic (Jul 17, 2007)

jmaccauley said:


> I thought maybe this has happened to you, since you have a problem with it. I guess that was just a hypothetical complaint.
> 
> O.K., I'll ask the group. How often do police pull over ambulances? Has anyone here been stopped while driving code to a call or enroute to the hospital? I'm asking as a legitimate question, not to challenge anyone. Is the problem work related or off duty?



When I was a field supervisor of about 70 units on the road at one time, I can't even begin to tell you about some of the calls we got from LEOs, concerned citizens and partners who wanted a ride back to the station because they refused to get back into the truck because of the person driving. 

Everybody had EVOC, but there are some people that get a big truck with a big engine and they can't control themselves. You combine that with job that can be high stress with someone yelling in the back, either patient or partner, and you can get a disaster. Not everybody is cut out to be an "Ambulance Driver". It takes skill, training and a steady nerve which may get better with experience. 

Unfortunately experience rarely arrived for some. Turnover in employees was high due to the call volume. The EMT and medic factories were cranking them out including our own so we always had replacements.  

Our company was lucky that only 3 employees were killed on the road in 10 years. 4 if you count the driver that committed suicide after getting the blame for speeding in the accident that killed the patient and his partner. And yeah it is bad to see one of your company's mangled units featured in EMS magazines. 

We still see the horrific stories make headlines. The fender benders and the accidents that only disable employees rarely make the news. Tour the back lot of any large ambulance company sometime. We used to call it the graveyard because we kept one of the vehicles that was involved in a deadly accident for a training visual.

Of course for the number of emergency vehicles on the road, the statistics for safe and accident free driving is pretty good.  But if an LEO offers you some friendly advice, take it.


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## EMT007 (Aug 13, 2007)

> How often do police pull over ambulances? Has anyone here been stopped while driving code to a call or enroute to the hospital? I'm asking as a legitimate question, not to challenge anyone. Is the problem work related or off duty?



Honestly, I didn't even know that this happens anywhere (and short of an ambulance that is driving ridiculously dangerously, I don't think it really should). Police speed and otherwise disregard traffic laws for a number of reasons, and while they have more of a reason to do so, I think ambulances and other emergency vehicles should be given a break where speeding and other such minor traffic issues are concerned.

And getting pulled over while rolling code isn't even a possibility if you ask me. If I'm going lights and sirens somewhere, I will not (nor is there a legal responsibility for me to) yield to a police car with its lights/siren on behind me unless it is going significantly faster than me and I yield to let it pass. In fact, this could be considered a breach of your duty to respond to an emergency call. Besides, what kind of LEO would be stupid enough to even try to pull over an ambulance that is rolling code??


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## jmaccauley (Aug 13, 2007)

A bit of a condescending answer, but at least you answered. I have never heard of a police officer stopping an ambulance going code at any time. I have often wanted to follow them and chew out the reckless driver driver at the scene, but haven't done so. I assume that they are responding to an emergency and let it go at that. 
Now, as to your assertion (emt007) that you would not ever pull over if directed to, you would quickly learn that your assumption of your legal rights would be quickly trumped by a dose of reality. In other words, endangering the public is not in your job description. You would find yourself in a legal jam that could possibly cost you your job. Nor is it acceptible for LEO's to recklessly endanger the public. I can tell you that suspensions and firings have occurred over this.


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## EMT007 (Aug 13, 2007)

jmaccauley said:


> Now, as to your assertion (emt007) that you would not ever pull over if directed to, you would quickly learn that your assumption of your legal rights would be quickly trumped by a dose of reality.



But tell me, how would I be directed to pull over while I'm driving code-3? Thats what confuses me and makes the whole thing seem ridiculous. Short of the officer pulling up next to my window, getting my attention, and motioning me to pull over, I don't see how it can be done. And doing that would be extremely dangerous, which is why I say an officer would be foolish to try to pull over another emergency vehicle. Not to mention that it would stop that vehicle from responding to whatever it was responding to, which is another legal mess. If the officer wanted to follow and lecture/ticket/whatever the driver later, I can see that being a possibility. 



> In other words, endangering the public is not in your job description.



No and in fact, its my legal responsibilty to drive with due regard for safey, both mine and the public's, and I take that responsibility seriously. Perhaps I misunderstood the context, but I do not consider minor speeding and other such violations "endangering the public".


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## VentMedic (Aug 14, 2007)

After reading about the Ohio collision, reading about ambulance collisions and criminal driving cases involving EMTs and EMT-Ps on the EMS news wire almost daily and looking at the number of deaths caused by ambulance collisions each year, many at the fault of the person driving the ambulance, I have come to another conclusion. The LEOs aren't doing their job. They should be pulling over the ambulances that push it over their allowed speed limits and "roll" through the stop signs without due regard. Professional courtesy? NO! That goes for ambulance or POV. Dead is Dead. If a LEO can save one life even if it bruises someone's ego, so be it.   

Respect the law and the LEOs. They may have something to say of great importance about the patient, vehicle disrepair or road conditions and not about your driving.  

I may be hard core after 30 years in the medical profession, but as I mentioned before, the police probably have a good reason for their actions and ambulance accidents are never pretty.  Sure there may be some serious egos pulling their weight in a LEO uniform. But, when matched with another inflated ego in an ambulance: Two Wrongs Will Never Make a Right.


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## jmaccauley (Aug 14, 2007)

I hope this doesn't become a 2 sided argument between myself an EMT007, however, if you are driving code and cannot see a marked police car if in fact it was tryingto signal you, I would submit that you are not driving with due care. Again, don't believe that you are above the law just because you have an important job. Prevention of tragedies is equally important and law enforcement has that responsibility. As I said, you probably would never be pulled over while driving to an emergency, but we have gotten off track with your concern about being stopped for driving slightly above the speed limit.


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## Arkymedic (Aug 14, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> After reading about the Ohio collision, reading about ambulance collisions and criminal driving cases involving EMTs and EMT-Ps on the EMS news wire almost daily and looking at the number of deaths caused by ambulance collisions each year, many at the fault of the person driving the ambulance, I have come to another conclusion. The LEOs aren't doing their job. They should be pulling over the ambulances that push it over their allowed speed limits and "roll" through the stop signs without due regard. Professional courtesy? NO! That goes for ambulance or POV. Dead is Dead. If a LEO can save one life even if it bruises someone's ego, so be it.
> 
> Respect the law and the LEOs. They may have something to say of great importance about the patient, vehicle disrepair or road conditions and not about your driving.
> 
> I may be hard core after 30 years in the medical profession, but as I mentioned before, the police probably have a good reason for their actions and ambulance accidents are never pretty.  Sure there may be some serious egos pulling their weight in a LEO uniform. But, when matched with another inflated ego in an ambulance: Two Wrongs Will Never Make a Right.



I fully agree with this statement. We had a state trooper that attempted to pull over a unit one time yrs ago but they didn't stop and notified dispatch and the service owner and ASP spent a bit of time yelling on the phone. 

We also had a situation yrs ago here in Arkansas where a police unit rolled through a stop sign and killed someone and seriously injured others.

We have the legal responsibility to drive and operate with due regard. Driving in general but especially operating emergency vehicles is a privilege not a right. I use to and still do like going code 3 however after having a unit involved in a rollover and seeing friends seriously injured and the near misses we all have had, it has made me think about my EMTs driving and how much more often I use C-3 then needed. Also remember that C-3 does not mean they will comply it just means you are asking for the right of way. A post earlier gave three reasons to return C-3 and this made me stop and think about this one for a bit and will be something I put to personal practice soon.


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 14, 2007)

EMT007 said:


> But tell me, how would I be directed to pull over while I'm driving code-3? Thats what confuses me and makes the whole thing seem ridiculous. Short of the officer pulling up next to my window, getting my attention, and motioning me to pull over, I don't see how it can be done. And doing that would be extremely dangerous, which is why I say an officer would be foolish to try to pull over another emergency vehicle. Not to mention that it would stop that vehicle from responding to whatever it was responding to, which is another legal mess. If the officer wanted to follow and lecture/ticket/whatever the driver later, I can see that being a possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> No and in fact, its my legal responsibilty to drive with due regard for safey, both mine and the public's, and I take that responsibility seriously. Perhaps I misunderstood the context, but I do not consider minor speeding and other such violations "endangering the public".



You might want to check your local state laws about yielding to emergency vehicles.  Most of the ones I'm aware of do NOT have any provisions for an emergency vehicle not having to yield to law enforcement.  Most do have charges like eluding and such that you could be arrested for once you stop.

What would you do if you were driving code 3, and see a LEO catching up to you also driving code 3?  Would you pull over and let him pass, or would you continue your response?

If you would continue your response, then you shouldn't be driving an ambulance.  You can't outrun a LEO in an ambulance, and letting him get there to secure the scene is a safer option for all involved.  Let's say you pulled over to let him by, and then he pulls over behind you to issue you a ticket for your driving.  Would you take off before he could write the ticket?  If so, you will probably be spending some time in the local sheriff's bed and breakfast.


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## VentMedic (Aug 15, 2007)

And then of course we have the very few really bad apples that give EMTs and Paramedics a black eye and another reason LEOs can not be too lax even with an ambulance.

http://www.kcci.com/news/13894103/detail.html

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=5940

*On-Duty Iowa EMT Charged with Public Intoxication*

Story by kcci.com
Updated: August 15th, 2007 11:22 AM PDT 
DES MOINES, Iowa -- 

An EMT and ambulance driver was arrested on charges of public intoxication and speeding. 

Paul Engman, 34, was supposed to be working over the weekend instead, but he ended up at the Polk County Jail. 

Police said it happened early Sunday morning at Prairie Meadows. 

An employee said he thought something was wrong with the driver of a Midwest ambulance. 

more at:
http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=5940


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## firecoins (Aug 15, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> And then of course we have the very few really bad apples that give EMTs and Paramedics a black eye and another reason LEOs can not be too lax even with an ambulance.
> 
> http://www.kcci.com/news/13894103/detail.html
> 
> ...




ughhh!:glare:


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## jmaccauley (Aug 15, 2007)

No, he doesn't get a pass.


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## EMT007 (Aug 19, 2007)

> You might want to check your local state laws about yielding to emergency vehicles. Most of the ones I'm aware of do NOT have any provisions for an emergency vehicle not having to yield to law enforcement. Most do have charges like eluding and such that you could be arrested for once you stop.



... On the other hand, there are no provisions that an emergency vehicle must yield specifically to law enforcement. I'm a little surprised that my posts are being taken as saying that I have no respect for law enforcement or think that I (or any other driver of emergency vehicles) should have some golden pass to drive unsafely. I don't in any way think these things. However, I do not believe that law enforcement should be pulling over an ambulance that is operating with lights and sirens. 



> What would you do if you were driving code 3, and see a LEO catching up to you also driving code 3? Would you pull over and let him pass, or would you continue your response?



If an LEO approached as a speed higher than my own, I would probably slow and pull to the left to let him pass when it was safe to do so, but I would continue my response. If he pulled behind me as I came to a stop, I would probably see what he needed to tell me, and if it were something like a simple traffic ticket, I'm not sure what I would do. Probably inform him that he is causing me to abandon the patient that I was responding to and that he is assuming liability for that. Like I said, LEOs should know this and not do such a thing. 

Perhaps I have a skewed view of this since I work out of a police department (technically, the ambulance I drive is a police vehicle - has the department badge on the doors and everything), and I know all the officers in the area well. I have had the pollice come up behind me code-3 many times and its always to follow us to calls for extra hands, etc. If its a call where we need them to clear the scene first, we pull off and stage elsewhere anyway. 

Anyway, I dont' want this to turn into a big thing - only to explain my thoughts.


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## jmaccauley (Aug 19, 2007)

I noticed that your attitude has changed considerably during this exchange. You started out by assuming that the police had no right to pull you over regardless of your driving in a dangerous manner, to saying that you didn't see how they could physically stop you anyway, to stating that it is wrong to get stopped for driving slightly above the speed limit. Now you recognize that it rarely happens and that you actually do have an obligation to stop if ordered (not asked) to pull over. You are correct in saying that police officers will not generally want to prevent you from saving lives or otherwise doing your job, so indeed, this has gotten off track. Now, ask the cops that you work with what they would do if they thought an ambulance was driving in an unsafe manner and felt that they were being careless, or worse, reckless. If you don't get what I'm trying to tell you as an answer, you are either working in a small community where your response is usually limited to a few miles of suburban roadways or, they would give you a pass because they know you.


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## sandboxmedic (Aug 21, 2007)

*getting pulled over in a unit*



jmaccauley said:


> I thought maybe this has happened to you, since you have a problem with it. I guess that was just a hypothetical complaint.
> 
> O.K., I'll ask the group. How often do police pull over ambulances? Has anyone here been stopped while driving code to a call or enroute to the hospital? I'm asking as a legitimate question, not to challenge anyone. Is the problem work related or off duty?



It is my understanding that Jmamcaulay is a LEO,correct? think i read that somewhere.....anyway. I do know of a case where a unit was responding to a Code L/S. Cant recall the exact speed, maybe 55/45 thin traffic. A police unit jumped in behind, followed the unit to the call and gave them a bit of flack for speeding as they were hualin a$$ and gear into the house. The LEO watched them work the code, even followed them to the hospital then stroked the driver a ticket for speeding.  A verbal should have been enough, but to actually stroke the ticket i thought was unnecessary. Funny how when responding to an "officer down" i know of a couple units going well over the speed limit, supervisors included and nothing was said. I think its selective, usually a newbie LEO from what ive seen. Dont get me wrong, reckless driving doesnt help the crew, the patient, or the public, but a little mutual understanding could be reached. If its a constant problem with a crewmember, then yes, adress it immediately. Ive had the ambulance stop on a few occaisons to switch out a driver who i felt was being a little reckless enroute to the hospital. Thankfully, the ticket went to heads of both depts. and was resolved.


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## jmaccauley (Aug 22, 2007)

Frankly, at an "officer down" call, the unit would probably stage, but thats beside the point. As I have said, I won't defend a cop who is out of line, but I would guess that there was a personal aspect to that case.


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## VentMedic (Aug 22, 2007)

Drive with due regard and respect for other traffic.  I would say that there was a delay in response to the potential patient waiting for this ambulance. 

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=6026
*Ambulance Collision with Tow Truck Injures 2 FDNY EMTs *

JOHN ANNESE
Staten Island Advance (New York)

A tow truck slammed into an FDNY ambulance driving the wrong way down a West Brighton street yesterday afternoon, flipping the vehicle over.

Two emergency medical technicians, one male, one female, suffered minor injuries in the crash, according to authorities. The ambulance was not carrying a patient.

Witnesses said the ambulance was going the wrong way on Delafield Avenue when it crossed the intersection of Broadway at about 5 p.m. - into the path of a tow truck driven by South Beach resident Joe Sawler, 22.

"I braked. There was nowhere I could go. It was an ambulance. It was about the size of the intersection," Sawler said. He said his arm felt sore following the crash.

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=6026


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## emt666 (Aug 24, 2007)

I am a emt(captain)  with a small department  the local law enforcment has told me that they will not issue a speeding ticket to any emt/firepersonal unless they cause an accident  i feel that just because we are an emt/firepersonal that is no excuse to break the traffic laws





Amack said:


> Do you think that LEOs will give more leniency upon realizing that the person they just bagged for doing 75 in a 65  is an EMT, versus that of somebody otherwise?
> 
> 
> Another student and I were talking about this in  EMT class. (He wants to be a state cop)
> ...


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## PArescueEMT (Aug 25, 2007)

if i was responding to a call and was pulled over, i would yield and advise the PSAP of the current situation and have a 2nd ambulance dispatched.

If i was TRANSPORTING, i would continue to the hospital and handle the situation once i transferred patient care.

If they want you bad enough, the will follow you to the hospital and handle it there.


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## mfrjason (Aug 29, 2007)

In some states it does exist.


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## medicp94dao (Sep 9, 2007)

Okay, As i former LEO. I did grant a courtesy to others in the public safety field. But, as soon as they said  "But I am a EMT,Firefighter,etc,," or if they were repeat offenders i made D*mn sure they got a ticket and also let their supervisor know about it. On the other hand if they truly were sorry and apologetic, I let them go with a warning. We all shared the same radio freqs. so they could not pull the "i am on my way to a call" because i already knew. Its one thing to make a mistake, but its another to blatently speed or violate laws just because you are in a big truck/ambulance or are a volly w/lights on your POV. If we feel that just because we are emt/firefighters or whatever its okay to bend the rules, that is wrong on so many levels...


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## emtvestsquad1 (Oct 6, 2007)

indiana state police will most definetly pull you over and ticket you.... even in your ambulance... ive seen it..... definetly couldnt believe it .....


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## jmaccauley (Oct 7, 2007)

emtvestsquad1 said:


> indiana state police will most definetly pull you over and ticket you.... even in your ambulance... ive seen it..... definetly couldnt believe it .....



The rare instances where you might see something doesn't necessarily mean it is an agency wide practice. As I have said, and some may agree with, individuals are usually responsible for their own behavior. They are also usually responsible for the results of that behavior, especially if it involves attempting to justify violating the law. Common sense is not exclusive to the emergency medical profession, nor is it absent from law enforcement.


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## VentMedic (Oct 10, 2007)

Here's couple more news stories on the EMS wire.  Luckily there were very few injuries involved. Now before one thinks the newspapers are picking on EMS workers, these stories were on EMS sites picked up by their search engines. The stories may have been published in small town papers where just about anything will make headlines.  I would hope no one would criticize law enforcement here for doing their job by either stopping an ambulance or issuing a ticket.  If a police officer believes there is justification to pull a truck over, then the driver of that truck should obey the officer.  With your adrenaline flowing you may not perceive your driving as reckless or you may not have noticed a stop light or stop sign.  The officer will probably not detain you any longer than it takes to say "Be careful". Even though the patient is in the back of your truck, the police still have a responsibility for that patient's safety when it comes to moving violations. 

http://www.ems1.com/products/vehicles/articles/312959/

*Calif. ambulance driver partly at fault for home crash, police say*
By Rachel Raskin-Zrihen
Vallejo Times Herald
Copyright 2007 The Vallejo Times Herald

VALLEJO, Calif. — Police have determined that a Medic Ambulance driver was partly at fault for a crash that hurled the emergency vehicle into a Vallejo house last month, a Vallejo Police Department spokesman said Monday. 

Lt. Rick Nichelman said an investigation into the accident found EMT Owen Goodrum of Vallejo, 22, who was behind the wheel of the ambulance, "was traveling at a speed excessive for the conditions." 

Goodrum, who was going about 50 mph, also erred by passing improperly, Nichelman indicated. 

The speed limit is 30 mph on Redwood Street where the accident happened, a Vallejo traffic officer said. 

The 8:30 a.m. Sept. 13 crash happened when a 2003 silver Chevy Tahoe stopped to make a left turn at De Anza Drive with the ambulance directly behind it, lights flashing and siren blaring. The emergency vehicle clipped the Tahoe and then slammed into a home's garage. 
http://www.ems1.com/products/vehicles/articles/312959/

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=6319

West Virginia Ambulance Driver Faces DUI
The Associated Press

ASHLAND, Ky. -- 

A West Virginia ambulance driver faces an impaired driving charge after running two red lights with a patient in the back, police said.

Steven Ray Marcum of Mingo County, W.Va., was transporting a patient Tuesday for Jan Care Ambulance, a regional service, when he ran the lights, said police Capt. Todd Kelley.

The lights and sirens of the ambulance weren't on, tipping police officer Bill Lucas that something was wrong, Kelley said.

"With this guy, it was obvious," Kelley said.

Marcum failed a field sobriety test and was blood-tested for drugs before going to jail on a charge of driving under the influence of a controlled substance, Kelley said.

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=6319


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 10, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> Marcum failed a field sobriety test and was blood-tested for drugs before going to jail on a charge of driving under the influence of a controlled substance, Kelley said.
> 
> [/url]




Yep, professionalism at its best.. and we wonder why they still call us ambulance drivers?

R/r 911


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## rescuepoppy (Oct 14, 2007)

*EMTs&speedig*

I just want to say as avolunteer who responds mostly pov I have found that in my area  le will allow a little leeway while responding. This also takes into account overall driving,reckless or aggressive driving is a sure way to get nailed even if responding. In day to day driving I have gotten away with speeding a few times due to i.d. on my vehicle. This is not expected but is welcomed. I think we should always think of what we see when we are driving.


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