# True incident: crash victim still armed and dangerous.



## mycrofft (Sep 16, 2009)

About seven years ago a suspect spun out and crashed due to a high speed flight from LE. The car was actually beginning to burn and the suspect was screaming for help. When the two officers approached, they split up and the older one spotted that the suspect was holding a handgun pointed towards his partner through the car door. Screamed command to drop it and the partner backing off, plus smoke, caused the idiot to drop it and allow his rescue and arrest.

Could have been a knife, used or filled syringe, taser, etc. Scene safety isn't complete until the patient is cleared of harmful items. Are you trained and competent to do it? Have you done it?


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## arsenicbassist (Sep 16, 2009)

*safety*

hmmm, interesting. Being Mil and trained in small unit tactics, I don't get much scene safety, but I'd say that it would be good to assume that everyone has a gun, HIV, and a vicious dog hidden in their coat. HAHA

Cheers


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## ki4mus (Sep 17, 2009)

We (I at lest, and the EMT-Students that I've precepted) clear all our trauma Pt's and all our unknown unresponisves, Combative Pt's normally get cleared by LEO.

Running in a rual area we really don't think about guns and knives much....the majority of my Pt's are armed in one way or another, seeing loaded guns above the door, at the bedside, and on the Pt's belt is very common.... However, becoming cmplacent with this is a flaw that quickly came to light when I joined a city agency.....very quickly...


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## exodus (Sep 18, 2009)

I search, every one of our psych patients, and all their belongings when I pick up from County Mental Health. I've picked up from there before, and ended up finding out the pt had a pocket knife on them, or tobacco hidden in their sock.  Also, if I let them bring items like that into a institution, then I can be held responsible if something happens... 

Never had a problem with this, and the staff there have no problems with it at all. Usually though PD takes the weapon, and fills out that part of the 5150, but i have seen it slip through at least once... So I don't take a chance.


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## Summit (Sep 18, 2009)

Help! Get me out of this burning car so I can shoot you! Help!


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## Medic One (Sep 19, 2009)

In my 20yrs in EMS I have had my share of armed violent patients but the key is to always leave a safe exit for yourslef and your partner as we all know that.

75% of our members of service wear bullet "RESISTANT" vest (why they call them bullet proof idk).  Our uniforms are the smae through-out the city EMS and Police. Same quatermaster. We just have a different patch. We have been fighting this for atleast the last 15years and its been a losing battle.  Unfortunatly most EMS look like cops and it is a trend we need to stop....Look at our "duty belts..patches...badges...etc...".
With the right to bear arms acts our job is not an easy one to deal with...when all we have is an O2 bottle, clip board, flashlight, or radio as our few items to choose as a self-defense weapon.  I think EMS need to atleast carry pepper spray for our own safety. But enough on that...let me get back to the topic.


I remember one call..MVA unresponsive male we used PHTLS radip extrication to basically load and go...Once in the bus the alcohol breath was much easier detectable and I began to complete a more detailed trauma assessment... my findings started with a empty shoulder holster (OH Crap - well not those words exactly ...I thought)

Then a knife an asp and pepper spray in his jacket...I thought great a cop as I continued to drop these items on the floor (I was alone going hot to the hosp...partner driving) I felt the butt iof a gun at his wasteline....great this is all I need.....not finding the gun but the guy suddenly trying to sit up and flailing around....all I could do was scream for my partner to stop as I threw my body weight over his chest and arms to prevent any unconscious/unaware reach for a firearm.

Lesson learned here...don't get caught up in the moment even with rapid extrication....before leaving the scene and safety of having a partner to assist in the back take a minute to do a quick pat down.


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## mycrofft (Sep 19, 2009)

*Thanks for reeling that back in.*

I think safetying the patient ought to be taught, and there ought to be a policy.
The policy will probably be to call LE and wait in place until LE arrives.


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