# I want my own personal AED ! ( New York )



## Miscusi (Sep 24, 2013)

Hi guys, I hope your day is going well. 

I am considering buying an AED to keep around for emergencies though the chances of actually needing it is pretty low, but I like to be prepared. I am thinking about The Philips HeartStart OnSite... here is a link to the brochure.

http://incenter.medical.philips.com...ure.pdf?func=doc.Fetch&nodeid=578464&vernum=6 

I am in NYC, NY. 

I understand its a medical device, and I have looked up some laws and so far most of what laws I can find is trying to make businesses and other entities have AEDs available.

I haven't found any restrictive laws yet.

I have found out that my state even offers a income tax credit if you buy an AED !  see form here : http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it250_fill_in.pdf

Any New Yorkers ( or knowledgeable folk ) have any input ? Thank you.


----------



## Mariemt (Sep 24, 2013)

You love in NYC. 
Isn't there one within 50 feet?


----------



## MMiz (Sep 24, 2013)

You won't find it much cheaper than Amazon. $1,075 shipped and it's yours.

Good luck!


----------



## TransportJockey (Sep 24, 2013)

MMiz said:


> You won't find it much cheaper than Amazon. $1,075 shipped and it's yours.
> 
> To save you some time for future threads, Amazon also has the PulseOx, backboard, and book on separating your work and private life.
> 
> Good luck!



Not that I'm complaining about the snark, but long day? Lol


----------



## Jim37F (Sep 24, 2013)

Well to be fair I can see the logic of having a personal AED at home a lot more so than I see the logic of a personal D Cylinder...


----------



## Mariemt (Sep 24, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> Well to be fair I can see the logic of having a personal AED at home a lot more so than I see the logic of a personal D Cylinder...



Maybe he has a cat to use it on?


----------



## Jim37F (Sep 24, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> Maybe he has a cat to use it on?



ROFL, I can see it now, picturing a cat with one of those oxygen masks firefighters use on pets w/ little tiny pads shaved into its chest...


----------



## Miscusi (Sep 25, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> You love in NYC.
> Isn't there one within 50 feet?



kinda, but you aren't supposed to take it out of the stand if it isn't an emergency.


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Sep 25, 2013)

Miscusi said:


> kinda, but you aren't supposed to take it out of the stand if it isn't an emergency.



The only time you should need to use one is an emergency...


----------



## Mariemt (Sep 25, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> The only time you should need to use one is an emergency...



I started to laugh so hard I almost peed


----------



## STXmedic (Sep 25, 2013)

Miscusi said:


> kinda, but you aren't supposed to take it out of the stand if it isn't an emergency.


----------



## Miscusi (Sep 25, 2013)

I mean like you cant take it home... run tests on it.. change the battery...


----------



## STXmedic (Sep 25, 2013)

Miscusi said:


> I mean like you cant take it home... run tests on it.. change the battery...



Yeah, that kind of goes without saying.... Why would you want to, though.


----------



## Household6 (Sep 25, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> Maybe he has a cat to use it on?



Because sometimes "adapt and overcome" gets so boring!!


----------



## mycrofft (Sep 25, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nDB_5dxzDM[/YOUTUBE]

GO TO 2:20


----------



## EMT B (Sep 26, 2013)

what did i just watch?


----------



## firecoins (Sep 26, 2013)

you don't need an AED.


----------



## unleashedfury (Sep 26, 2013)

early correct CPR is the most effective tool for Sudden Cardiac Arrest. and its inexpesnive to maintain your certification especially if you are already a EMS provider as its kinda required. 

Save your money, if anything if you see a cardiac arrest do CPR. have someone call 911. 

I could also see some sort of liability factor for having your own personal AED. I mean ours had to be purchased under our medical directors liscense so if you did buy your own. and it actually shocked somebody. now the doc wants to see the inital rythym that it defibrillated. or they didn't make it. Whos to say some hot shot lawyer or pissed off family member isn't gonna make a stink about if you didn't use your AED they might be alive today.


----------



## Achilles (Sep 26, 2013)

Redacted


----------



## exodus (Sep 27, 2013)

EMT B said:


> what did i just watch?



Me gusta.


----------



## Miscusi (Sep 27, 2013)

"now the doc wants to see the inital rythym that it defibrillated. "

I think the model we have at the agency has a memory card that records plenty of info for review by whoever. maybe that's standard ?

"Whos to say some hot shot lawyer or pissed off family member isn't gonna make a stink about if you didn't use your AED they might be alive today"

Really?  that statement can be applied to anything...  do you really think this have any merit ? 

"Whos to say some hot shot lawyer or pissed off family member isn't gonna make a stink about if you didn't ____________ they might be alive today"


----------



## unleashedfury (Sep 29, 2013)

Miscusi said:


> "now the doc wants to see the inital rythym that it defibrillated. "
> 
> I think the model we have at the agency has a memory card that records plenty of info for review by whoever. maybe that's standard ?
> 
> ...



Whilst I can agree, and I can't agree. 

When I am at work on the clock I am covered by my company and my medical director and my personal malpractice insurance. They assume the liability that They have reviewed my skills and I am competent enough to perform at the level I am certified. 

My malpractice insurance does not apply when I am a layperson off duty. As in reality you are just that a layperson when your off duty. My medical director or my employing agency assume no liability of what skills I may perform when I am off duty. Just like a doc out of the office is just a layperson you are as well. 

Whether you chose to purchase an AED or not is your choice, But I still can see how it could spell trouble, I offer assistance when I'm off duty I did so today at my daughters football game. But its as a layperson only.


----------



## IslandTime (Sep 29, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> My malpractice insurance does not apply when I am a layperson off duty. As in reality you are just that a layperson when your off duty. My medical director or my employing agency assume no liability of what skills I may perform when I am off duty. Just like a doc out of the office is just a layperson you are as well.



So how does it differ between an off-duty EMT or Paramedic acting as a layperson carrying their own AED, and a full time layperson (i.e. your everyday person on the street) who grabs an AED mounted in a public location? Both are acting as a lay person. I thought the Good Samaritan laws covered these kinds of actions, assuming the actions performed stayed within the realm of CPR as trained at a layperson level and/or AED usage as prompted by the device.


----------



## MMiz (Sep 29, 2013)

IslandTime said:


> So how does it differ between an off-duty EMT or Paramedic acting as a layperson carrying their own AED, and a full time layperson (i.e. your everyday person on the street) who grabs an AED mounted in a public location? Both are acting as a lay person. I thought the Good Samaritan laws covered these kinds of actions, assuming the actions performed stayed within the realm of CPR as trained at a layperson level and/or AED usage as prompted by the device.


IslandTime,

I think you're making assumptions about the legal definition of layperson.  Some states, mine included, don't offer the same protections to an off duty medically trained person as they would a random bystander.

Also, a home AED is licensed and approved by the FDA for use at home/on family.  A business/professional AED requires a doctor's prescription and medical direction.


----------



## unleashedfury (Sep 30, 2013)

IslandTime said:


> So how does it differ between an off-duty EMT or Paramedic acting as a layperson carrying their own AED, and a full time layperson (i.e. your everyday person on the street) who grabs an AED mounted in a public location? Both are acting as a lay person. I thought the Good Samaritan laws covered these kinds of actions, assuming the actions performed stayed within the realm of CPR as trained at a layperson level and/or AED usage as prompted by the device.



The AED's for public use.. The ones at the mall, schools and all other public places give you specific instructions on what to do. The ones we have on our trucks are for healthcare providers and required approval from a physician. 

When off duty I am still a full functioning EMT. if I choose to act in a manner that a EMT would on duty I am doing so under my own liability. Good Samaritan laws do not protect certified professionals just the average joe who has layperson CPR,First aid and is doing what he possibly can just to help. While I have a choice to act or not. (I am not obligated for a duty to act when Off duty) is a ethical issue. In my own opinion yes I would help but as far as to what extent, is a different story


----------



## STXmedic (Sep 30, 2013)

I need to make a belt holster for an AED. I'd make millions.


----------



## emt11 (Sep 30, 2013)

*unleashedfury* The AED's for public use.. The ones at the mall, schools and all other public places give you specific instructions on what to do. The ones we have on our trucks are for healthcare providers and required approval from a physician.

Not the one's on our trucks. When you open it, first thing it says, "Call 911". :glare::wacko:


----------



## IslandTime (Sep 30, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> The AED's for public use.. The ones at the mall, schools and all other public places give you specific instructions on what to do. The ones we have on our trucks are for healthcare providers and required approval from a physician.



The AED that the OP specifically mentioned, and included a link to the marketing material about, is a layperson, follow the prompts and pretty pictures, style unit. I doubt any but the most wealthy would want to be carrying a full on monitor in their POV.


----------



## Tigger (Sep 30, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> The AED's for public use.. The ones at the mall, schools and all other public places give you specific instructions on what to do. The ones we have on our trucks are for healthcare providers and required approval from a physician.
> 
> When off duty I am still a full functioning EMT. if I choose to act in a manner that a EMT would on duty I am doing so under my own liability. Good Samaritan laws do not protect certified professionals just the average joe who has layperson CPR,First aid and is doing what he possibly can just to help. While I have a choice to act or not. (I am not obligated for a duty to act when Off duty) is a ethical issue. In my own opinion yes I would help but as far as to what extent, is a different story



All AEDs require a prescription from a physician. It's not very hard to get (AED Superstore includes one with your purchase), but there still must be physician approval to purchase a medical device. Many services use public access models on the ambulance because they are cheaper. Most IFT services are going to get very little use out of them so it makes sense to purchase these models.


----------



## MMiz (Sep 30, 2013)

Tigger said:


> All AEDs require a prescription from a physician. It's not very hard to get (AED Superstore includes one with your purchase), but there still must be physician approval to purchase a medical device. Many services use public access models on the ambulance because they are cheaper. Most IFT services are going to get very little use out of them so it makes sense to purchase these models.


That isn't quite true.  In 2004 the FDA approved certain home AEDs without a prescription.  Here is a link with more information (PDF).

The nearly identical AED approved for home use requires a prescription if buying the commercial version.  It also comes with a longer warranty compared to the home version.


----------



## Tigger (Sep 30, 2013)

MMiz said:


> That isn't quite true.  In 2004 the FDA approved certain home AEDs without a prescription.  Here is a link with more information (PDF).
> 
> The nearly identical AED approved for home use requires a prescription if buying the commercial version.  It also comes with a longer warranty compared to the home version.



Well consider me educamated then!


----------



## Miscusi (Oct 2, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> The AED's for public use.. The ones at the mall, schools and all other public places give you specific instructions on what to do. The ones we have on our trucks are for healthcare providers and required approval from a physician.
> 
> When off duty I am still a full functioning EMT. if I choose to act in a manner that a EMT would on duty I am doing so under my own liability. Good Samaritan laws do not protect certified professionals just the average joe who has layperson CPR,First aid and is doing what he possibly can just to help. While I have a choice to act or not. (I am not obligated for a duty to act when Off duty) is a ethical issue. In my own opinion yes I would help but as far as to what extent, is a different story



I think the Good Sam applies to you, as long as you don't royally screw up and you aren't being paid for what you are doing at the time.


----------



## Miscusi (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi All, 

After considering the purchase, and being how it will still be perhaps 700-800 dollars out of pocket after the tax credit from the state...

Its not going to be this year. 

thanks for your participation !


----------



## unleashedfury (Oct 2, 2013)

STXmedic said:


> I need to make a belt holster for an AED. I'd make millions.



Yes and add a if you buy now you not only get your AED belt holster you get a free AED equipped T-shirt and this AED equipped car window sticker so we all know when to find a AED when you need one Its a 19.95 value free with your purchase



emt11 said:


> *unleashedfury* The AED's for public use.. The ones at the mall, schools and all other public places give you specific instructions on what to do. The ones we have on our trucks are for healthcare providers and required approval from a physician.
> 
> Not the one's on our trucks. When you open it, first thing it says, "Call 911". :glare::wacko:



Call 911? I can only imagine if you actually get someone who is dumb enough to do so I'd kill to be listening into that call.

911 - Where is your emergency

Caller - I am on scene of the cardiac arrest you just sent me too. My AED said to call 911

:blink::blink::blink:


----------



## NomadicMedic (Oct 2, 2013)

And we're done with this one, too.


----------

