# Not exactly EMS but..



## Martyn (Sep 13, 2011)

Got to love the way they drag the guy out and just walk off...hello? Is he alive or what?


http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2011/09/13/von-motorcycle-crash.cnn.html


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## Shishkabob (Sep 13, 2011)

Saw that this morning and posted it to a motorcycle forum.


Kinda why you want to, you know, wear a helmet and other gear.  He was wearing NOTHING.

They say he's in 'critical condition'.  No shoot.



Honestly, I'm glad they realized their only job was to remove him from the fire and not to actually do anything medical.


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## EMS Patient Care Advocate (Sep 13, 2011)

I read he was in stable condition with broken bones, yes very alive. I too laughed out loud, moved a friggin car then left him in the middle of the road. All good things comes with a price. At least this wasnt the NYC incident last week with the car lift gone bad.


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## IRIDEZX6R (Sep 13, 2011)

I ride a bike and I shake my head at some of these kids riding with no gear. I've been hit and my gear saved my life, thats why its there. It's nice to see a different ending this time, the accident last week wasnt as fortunate to have awesome bystanders around.


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## mikie (Sep 13, 2011)

Sure beats the heck out of this rescue:

http://www.ems1.com/fire-ems/articl...hows-controversial-motorcycle-crash-response/

edit: darn i see EMS PT Advocate beat me to the punch...


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## bigbaldguy (Sep 13, 2011)

Martyn said:


> Got to love the way they drag the guy out and just walk off...hello? Is he alive or what?
> 
> 
> http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2011/09/13/von-motorcycle-crash.cnn.html



I think the cop told everyone to back away from the car. So is the fat guy in the suit the guy that hit the motorcycle? He just stands there like an idiot. At one point he even *leans on the car*. Everybody else including the 80 pound chick is helping and this guys just standing there checking his black berry WTF!


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## emtpche (Sep 13, 2011)

Just think it was not for folks like this we would be out of work.  Like how the cops were putting out the fire with small fire extinguisher.


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## sdennislee (Sep 13, 2011)

Why did no one check for pulse, resp, etc.. ? Assumed the policemen their are trained as first responders. Would have thought they would have at least checked vitals and stabilized c-spine with hands while waiitng on EMS


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## terrible one (Sep 14, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Honestly, I'm glad they realized their only job was to remove him from the fire and not to actually do anything medical.



Out of curiosity....
What as a bystander would you have done medically? C-spine? Control bleeding?


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## abckidsmom (Sep 14, 2011)

terrible one said:


> Out of curiosity....
> What as a bystander would you have done medically? C-spine? Control bleeding?



As a bystander I would have moved him a bit further away from the car, and put his arms and legs down by his sides.  He looks ssh pitiful all splayed out like that.

As an ems provider, we laughed when this came on the news at dinner tonight at the station because it was just so comical the way the all showed up, then completely disappeared, leaving him so close to the burning car.


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## Martyn (Sep 14, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> As a bystander I would have moved him a bit further away from the car, and put his arms and legs down by his sides. He looks ssh pitiful all splayed out like that.
> 
> As an ems provider, we laughed when this came on the news at dinner tonight at the station because it was just so comical the way the all showed up, then completely disappeared, leaving him so close to the burning car.


 
I know, I must admit to having a giggle...ain't we wicked


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## Aerin-Sol (Sep 14, 2011)

Perhaps i'm jaded, but this video makes me giggle. It's surreal that they drag him out and then all just walk away.

(it wouldn't be as funny if I didn't know that he was alive before I saw it)

Edit: oh good, everyone else has the same response as me.


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## abckidsmom (Sep 14, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> Perhaps i'm jaded, but this video makes me giggle. It's surreal that they drag him out and then all just walk away.
> 
> (it wouldn't be as funny if I didn't know that he was alive before I saw it)
> 
> Edit: oh good, everyone else has the same response as me.



Yeah, the first time when I thought he was dead, I didn't laugh.  Then the cynicism built in me, and I just thought it was funny.  Evil.


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## bigbaldguy (Sep 14, 2011)

I find it odd that everyone is giving the bystanders a hard time about leaving the guy laying there when most of us wouldn't have gone anywhere near the burning car because of "scene safety". We have no idea what the conditions were coming off that car. There could have been crazy heat coming off of it, fumes, burned hands. We are all doing to these poor folks exactly what the public does to us all the time, second guessing. If the folks around that car had all died when the gas tank cooked off we would all be giving them hell about how "bystanders have no business stopping to help". I'm  disappointed by some of the comments I'm reading about this. 

more complete video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOl07-gGgLk
Now there is some information that two medics were staged just down the road from the scene waiting for the fire to be put out before going in.


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## sdennislee (Sep 14, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> I find it odd that everyone is giving the bystanders a hard time about leaving the guy laying there when most of us wouldn't have gone anywhere near the burning car because of "scene safety". We have no idea what the conditions were coming off that car. There could have been crazy heat coming off of it, fumes, burned hands. We are all doing to these poor folks exactly what the public does to us all the time, second guessing. If the folks around that car had all died when the gas tank cooked off we would all be giving them hell about how "bystanders have no business stopping to help". I'm  disappointed by some of the comments I'm reading about this.
> 
> more complete video
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOl07-gGgLk
> Now there is some information that two medics were staged just down the road from the scene waiting for the fire to be put out before going in.



I applaud the by-standers. I wondered at the police officers that were on scene. Thought they should have 1) moved the victim further away, 2) checked vitals, at least pulse, 3) stabilized c-spine until EMS arrived.


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## dstevens58 (Sep 14, 2011)

I had law enforcement training in California and it is extremely lacking with only basic first aid and CPR.  Not anything like what I would respect a first responder to be.  Of course, this was with a larger agency.  Most often, fire/rescue would be on scene before the police.


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## abckidsmom (Sep 14, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> I find it odd that everyone is giving the bystanders a hard time about leaving the guy laying there when most of us wouldn't have gone anywhere near the burning car because of "scene safety". We have no idea what the conditions were coming off that car. There could have been crazy heat coming off of it, fumes, burned hands. We are all doing to these poor folks exactly what the public does to us all the time, second guessing. If the folks around that car had all died when the gas tank cooked off we would all be giving them hell about how "bystanders have no business stopping to help". I'm  disappointed by some of the comments I'm reading about this.
> 
> more complete video
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOl07-gGgLk
> Now there is some information that two medics were staged just down the road from the scene waiting for the fire to be put out before going in.



I have made the bystander decision to act in the face of danger, and the medic decision to go in when others might stage.  I can say with some certainty that if I had been in the same position as the bystanders, I would have done the same thing.  If I had gotten cooked when the gas tank blew, it would have been my time.

I didn't mean to be criticizing the people for leaving the guy where they did, I just thought it was a little funny.  It seems so odd for them to rescue him from certain danger/death and leaving him in imminent danger.  That's all.


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## bigbaldguy (Sep 14, 2011)

sdennislee said:


> I applaud the by-standers. I wondered at the police officers that were on scene. Thought they should have 1) moved the victim further away, 2) checked vitals, at least pulse, 3) stabilized c-spine until EMS arrived.



1) moved the victim further away and 3) stabilized C spine are kind of incompatible. At least without a backboard and collar. Some police carry a c collar in the trunk of the car but many of them probably have no idea how to use it properly. 

If you watch the longer video I posted the police officer does put the guy in a more anatomically normal position. It even looks like he might be getting him ready to roll once the long board gets there. I doubt getting a set of vitals would have been terribly useful in this situation. The guy was either breathing in which case there was no CPR needed or he wasn't and I doubt the officer felt like performing CPR 10 feet from a burning car.

I find it amazing that a coordinated, spontaneous response could be so quickly put in place. This guy should be dead. The only reason he isn't is because normal people ran forward instead of backward. As responders we do this because we are used to it and because it is expected of us. These people did it instinctively.


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## Aerin-Sol (Sep 14, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> I have made the bystander decision to act in the face of danger, and the medic decision to go in when others might stage.  I can say with some certainty that if I had been in the same position as the bystanders, I would have done the same thing.  If I had gotten cooked when the gas tank blew, it would have been my time.
> 
> I didn't mean to be criticizing the people for leaving the guy where they did, I just thought it was a little funny.  It seems so odd for them to rescue him from certain danger/death and leaving him in imminent danger.  That's all.



Yes, exactly. The bystanders were awesome and heroic and I admire them greatly. I also get a laugh from the unexpectedness of them all walking away as soon as he's away from the car. It doesn't make the bystanders any less heroic, but it's funny in its unexpectedness. 

That said, I shared my opinion with my non-EMS partner and he now thinks I'm a bit callous.


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## sdennislee (Sep 14, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> 1) moved the victim further away and 3) stabilized C spine are kind of incompatible. At least without a backboard and collar. Some police carry a c collar in the trunk of the car but many of them probably have no idea how to use it properly.
> 
> If you watch the longer video I posted the police officer does put the guy in a more anatomically normal position. It even looks like he might be getting him ready to roll once the long board gets there. I doubt getting a set of vitals would have been terribly useful in this situation. The guy was either breathing in which case there was no CPR needed or he wasn't and I doubt the officer felt like performing CPR 10 feet from a burning car.
> 
> I find it amazing that a coordinated, spontaneous response could be so quickly put in place. This guy should be dead. The only reason he isn't is because normal people ran forward instead of backward. As responders we do this because we are used to it and because it is expected of us. These people did it instinctively.



Collar not needed. Kneel at the patients head place hands on the patients head and stabilize until EMS arrives with collar and back board. This will prevent the patient from attempting to move his head before EMS applies the collar.

Checking pulse would have verified the need for CPR or not. If required move patient further away. 

Perhaps their police officers are not trained as first responders.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 14, 2011)

Until one of the bystanders sues the biker for hurting his back lifting the car... 

It's happened before


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## firetender (Sep 15, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Until one of the bystanders sues the biker for hurting his back lifting the car...
> 
> It's happened before


 
Please cite the link.


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## firetender (Sep 15, 2011)

The clip I saw, before reading this post was of the kid being pulled out and no more. I didn't realize it took so long for anyone to do anything. But I agree, in that case the standers-by did right; they did what they saw was necessary and then left him for the pros.

Ummm...where were those pros?

Here's what I blogged about this and the guy who was UN-attended by anyone in NY (except for that part where they bounced a car off him!)

http://emsoutsideagitator.com/2011/09/biker-lives-biker-dies-ya-gotta-ask-why/


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## MonkeySquasher (Sep 15, 2011)

bigbaldguy said:


> If the folks around that car had all died when the gas tank cooked off we would all be giving them hell about how "bystanders have no business stopping to help".





To be fair, having been at numerous car fires over the past few years, I have yet to see one explode.  I've seen tires blow, and windows pop, an airbag pop, and when it hits the fuel line a very rapid increase in size and heat.  But never an actual explosion to where it would injure people around it.

You know, like you said, as if the heat/flame/fumes/glass wasn't enough.


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## bigbaldguy (Sep 15, 2011)

firetender said:


> The clip I saw, before reading this post was of the kid being pulled out and no more. I didn't realize it took so long for anyone to do anything. But I agree, in that case the standers-by did right; they did what they saw was necessary and then left him for the pros.
> 
> Ummm...where were those pros?
> 
> ...



I like it.


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## sdennislee (Sep 16, 2011)

Good blog firetender.


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