# Starting my own Private Ambulance Service.



## emt for life (Apr 11, 2012)

I was wondering if it would be a good idea to take business classes my local community college and use that toward starting my own Ambulance service. Would it be a good idea? How much would it cost? I do know what materials are needed because I am an EMT myself, so supplies and that kind of stuff isn't the problem. It is just the basics of how much it does cost and is it worth the hassle?


----------



## Arovetli (Apr 11, 2012)

...


----------



## emt for life (Apr 11, 2012)

I do understand that it will be a big undertaking I just want to know if it is worth the time and money?


----------



## emt for life (Apr 11, 2012)

you dont believe im serious? I have already made a busibess plan and everything.


----------



## Sandog (Apr 11, 2012)

If you have to ask, well ...


----------



## medic417 (Apr 11, 2012)

After you have the ambulance and all the requi
	
	



```

```
red supplies and a building bought it takes approximately $400000 - 600000 to staff and operate that one ambulance for one year.  Odds are you will not collect that much from your patients.


----------



## Talonrazor (Apr 11, 2012)

emt for life said:


> you dont believe im serious? I have already made a busibess plan and everything.



Believe me, as someone who just took over operations side of an (very small, specialized) agency there is a lot that goes into it. You need tons of experience and a dedicated team to make this work....


----------



## Veneficus (Apr 11, 2012)

emt for life said:


> you dont believe im serious? I have already made a busibess plan and everything.



How do you make a business plan that doesn't include costs?


----------



## ATrain (Apr 11, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> How do you make a business plan that doesn't include costs?



Well, it's a business plan insofar as "Hey, I think I might start an ambulance company" is a business plan.


----------



## akflightmedic (Apr 11, 2012)

Pre Marketing (Marketing/Business Manager required)
Advertising Costs
On going Marketing

Certified Public Accountant (CPA) Must have or you will be in trouble fast with expenses and taxes

Lawyer-You will have employment contracts, business contracts and there are times you will be sued

Operations Manager
Human Resource Manager 
Finance Manager (Billing and Collections) -this is separate from your above CPA
Health Insurance for employees
Disability Insurance/Life Insurance (Workers Compensation) This is a heavy cost

Uniforms
Supply and Inventory manager

Building for operations (lease agreement)
Utilities
Internet
Phones
Office Supplies

Ambulance (how many plus one spare)
Ongoing/routine maintenance
Hire a mechanic or sub out work as needed?
Fuel (checked prices lately?)
Insurance on vehicles

Equipment for ambulance

Employees
Manager
Orientation Costs

Medical Director

Time spent on producing policies and procedures...time is money  every thing done to support the business must have a cost associated with it....even your time.

Your salary--yes you have to pay yourself you cannot just dip in the old work bank account anytime you want.

Inventory is going to be a HUGE pain in the *** as you will have money tied up in resources which you may not ever use. They may expire before you get to them. But you cant wait till stuff runs out to replace/order it.

This list is not even done yet...this is me rambling and rattling off what I know.

I am a business owner.


In addition to all the above START UP costs...meaning the money you must spend before you can even start the business...you now MUST have enough capital to run the business for a minimum of 6 months.

You will have to be able to pay for all salaries, fuel, operating costs for 6 months before you might even possibly start receiving revenue.

During this time you will aggressively pursue any and all contracts. Your prices will need to be more competitive than the established companies. You are unproven so no one will use you unless there is a financial advantage as you have no reputation to entice. You will now be in a price war--can you sustain it without folding?

You will bill and be denied repeatedly. You will resubmit claims. You will only get partial payments on total amounts billed. Will you have enough volume to overcome this?

It can and usually takes up to 60-90 days before you get paid for work done today.

Market surveys? Have you had anyone do a professional market survey? have you polled potential businesses?


----------



## Veneficus (Apr 11, 2012)

Forget all of that, i'll just take care of the patients instead of inducing my own ulcer.


----------



## 46Young (Apr 11, 2012)

I wouldn't attempt starting an IFT company if you haven't worked as a Director for one. There's a many aspects of the business that you're going to be ingorant to.

You'll also need venture capitalists to provide funds and share the risk.


----------



## emt for life (Apr 11, 2012)

Well, considering nobody believes me when I say "I am going to start my own ambulance service" I am going to try my hardest and I have made a full Business plan (for all of you that want to be smart about it) I just don't know if it would be worth my time or not?


----------



## Sasha (Apr 11, 2012)

Oh goodness. Good luck, you're going to need it.


----------



## medicdan (Apr 11, 2012)

emt for life said:


> Well, considering nobody believes me when I say "I am going to start my own ambulance service" I am going to try my hardest and I have made a full Business plan (for all of you that want to be smart about it) I just don't know if it would be worth my time or not?



What we are trying to tell you is that we don't think it's worth your time at all. Please try to read some of the intelligent responses to your initial inquiry and you will get a sense of why posters here believe it's a BAD idea.


----------



## Sasha (Apr 11, 2012)

emt.dan said:


> What we are trying to tell you is that we don't think it's worth your time at all. Please try to read some of the intelligent responses to your initial inquiry and you will get a sense of why posters here believe it's a BAD idea.



Not only that but you're getting all in a huff over really nothing it leads me to believe you'd have a hard time dealing with the stress.


----------



## firetender (Apr 11, 2012)

emt for life said:


> Well, considering nobody believes me when I say "I am going to start my own ambulance service" I am going to try my hardest and I have made a full Business plan (for all of you that want to be smart about it) I just don't know if it would be worth my time or not?


 
The purpose of a business plan is to tell you if the project is worth your time and effort.

If it hasn't done that for you, then it won't do that for anyone else.


----------



## FourLoko (Apr 12, 2012)

It's a nice idea. The real cash cow would be a dialysis center. That's what I want.


----------



## Talonrazor (Apr 12, 2012)

Plus, learn how to write.


----------



## p2medic (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow, the discouragement is incredible on here. Check out EMS Management degrees from ENMU. I love it, dream big my friend. And YES, it is worth the money... otherwise no one would do it! I know business and i speak business, but yea get on with a company and climb management ladders as quick as possible, learn from everyone. Learn what works, learn what doesn't. I've thought about it myself and its a huge undertaking, but so is anything worth doing, I've got business plans of my own (non-ems) and I will make them realities in time.


----------



## Sasha (Apr 12, 2012)

p2medic said:


> Wow, the discouragement is incredible on here. Check out EMS Management degrees from ENMU. I love it, dream big my friend. And YES, it is worth the money... otherwise no one would do it! I know business and i speak business, but yea get on with a company and climb management ladders as quick as possible, learn from everyone. Learn what works, learn what doesn't. I've thought about it myself and its a huge undertaking, but so is anything worth doing, I've got business plans of my own (non-ems) and I will make them realities in time.



Not all ideas should be encouraged. He is not a child.


----------



## 94H (Apr 12, 2012)

If you just won the mega millions and have money to blow then go for it. 

If you have lots of experience on the management side of things, and have contracts lined up, good quotes for ambulances and a large pool of workers who are willing to work for low wages then go for it.

Just remember all those times you sit around, sleep, leave the ambulance running while at post. You might as well be throwing money down the drain since all your are doing at those times is loosing money.


----------



## p2medic (Apr 12, 2012)

Sasha said:


> Not all ideas should be encouraged. He is not a child.



Why not? Just because you don't have the drive and determination to chase it doesn't mean he can't. I mean someone stared AMR and MEDSTAR correct? And duh, he isn't going to get a thumbs up from a forum and start a company tomorrow it will take capital beyond belief. And i have yet to hear anyone bring a logical argument for not doing it... other than its harder then it looks, which is the worst reason of all.


----------



## daniel allen (Jun 1, 2015)

Ok for all of you that say it's not worth your time obviously you aren't in the field of emergency response or at least I hope not, yall care more about money than you do serving people in need you have the wrong attitude about this particular business. If you have the right attitude and your business plan includes more about what it's all about instead of how much money you will make then you can and will get government grants and donations. This is not a business it is a service if you see it differently then get out of emergency response!!


----------



## RocketMedic (Jun 1, 2015)

daniel allen said:


> Ok for all of you that say it's not worth your time obviously you aren't in the field of emergency response or at least I hope not, yall care more about money than you do serving people in need you have the wrong attitude about this particular business. If you have the right attitude and your business plan includes more about what it's all about instead of how much money you will make then you can and will get government grants and donations. This is not a business it is a service if you see it differently then get out of emergency response!!



Quoted, for optimism.

Daniel, sadly, everything is about money. Gumption and good intentions are not substitutes for money. It is not that we are all about profit- in fact, most sustainable and profitable for-profit services keep patient care very close to their hearts- but a business plan has to be first and foremost sustainable and realistic.


----------



## daniel allen (Jun 1, 2015)

RocketMedic said:


> Quoted, for optimism.
> 
> Daniel, sadly, everything is about money. Gumption and good intentions are not substitutes for money. It is not that we are all about profit- in fact, most sustainable and profitable for-profit services keep patient care very close to their hearts- but a business plan has to be first and foremost sustainable and realistic.



Once upon a time the care of others was realistic. And sustainable? Tax payers money should be going to these services to sustain it not to the government goo roos to have a fancy car and a big house in reality nobody cares about the safety of other people they only care about the safety of themselves. I am a fire fighter and about to become an emt when I show up on a scene I do whatever it takes to save a life even if it puts mine in danger. I make $200 every 54 hours and I would still be in this business if I didn't make a dime. Now for explanation on government grants for emergency services my department was donated a $320,000 fire truck before it was proven and we now get bunker gear, radios, uniforms, truck repair grants, continuing ed grants, and much more from the state of Texas. Guys this industry isn't all about the money or profit. My department is a vfd and sure it wasn't fully started by the state but once you prove that you are good at saving lives then the state you live in will start helping you stay in service but the federal government doesn't like giving money to anyone so you better be the best of the best to get anywhere with them. I'm just tired of reading posts that talk about money versus giving this caring citizen some support because even I he falls on his face he risked it all for a great cause. Dont ask yourself what you will get out of it ask yourself what your willing to put yourself through to save millions of others


----------



## daniel allen (Jun 1, 2015)

I do understand that profit is important to getting funded but it's not as hard to obtain if you have skills and experience and know the purpose of the service yes you might keep the purpose close to your heart but dont discourage those that will eventually make a change I fully encourage him to go for it and put a new face in front of the posers that just want to wear a badge and make money and I'm trying to start one myself i understand the risk but because it is important to me to make a difference to my country i dont care how much money i make doing it if i fall on my face there's plenty of emergency services out there that will be proud to have a member like me so i will still be saving lives even if I'm not the owner of my service. No harm in putting yourself out there unless profit is your main concern


----------



## Tigger (Jun 1, 2015)

daniel allen said:


> Ok for all of you that say it's not worth your time obviously you aren't in the field of emergency response or at least I hope not, yall care more about money than you do serving people in need you have the wrong attitude about this particular business. If you have the right attitude and your business plan includes more about what it's all about instead of how much money you will make then you can and will get government grants and donations. This is not a business it is a service if you see it differently then get out of emergency response!!


First of all, there are lots of EMS services operated for profit. Just like how much of healthcare is. 

With that out of the way, any agency that does not operate as a business is doing itself a huge injustice. I work for a third service tax district, so we are far from for profit. We have a guaranteed revenue stream from property tax so we are in better shape than many places. But we absolutely operate like any for-profit cooperation because recessions happen and revenues decrease. We used to be able to make ends meet each year with the combination of tax revenue, insurance reimbursement, and grants. For a while, this was enough to allow us to save money for bad times, like now. 

If we didn't operate like a business, we'd be screwed. Instead of buying a whole new fleet and staffing more trucks, we stayed the course and put the money into savings. And because of that, we have not compromised services.

But yea, we must be doing it wrong.


----------



## Tigger (Jun 1, 2015)

daniel allen said:


> I do understand that profit is important to getting funded but it's not as hard to obtain if you have skills and experience and know the purpose of the service yes you might keep the purpose close to your heart but dont discourage those that will eventually make a change I fully encourage him to go for it and put a new face in front of the posers that just want to wear a badge and make money and I'm trying to start one myself i understand the risk but because it is important to me to make a difference to my country i dont care how much money i make doing it if i fall on my face there's plenty of emergency services out there that will be proud to have a member like me so i will still be saving lives even if I'm not the owner of my service. No harm in putting yourself out there unless profit is your main concern


Just bankruptcy and a lifetime of financial hardship and not being able to provide for your family. But that's worth it right?


----------



## Underoath87 (Jun 1, 2015)

You bumped a 4 year old thread for that naive, idealistic rant?


----------



## Mufasa556 (Jun 2, 2015)

TLDR warning: Novel ahead.

A couple years ago my buddy and I worked on starting our own company. It's crazy money to be playing with if you don't have any idea what you're doing. I busted out the old notebook with all our notes and this is what I can tell you. This is what a naive 23 year old me thought was golden. 

The plan was to buy two rigs for $20k each. We decided to staff one rig a day on a 24hr shift. Crew 1 would work M/W/F. Crew 2 would work T/Th/Sat. My buddy and I would staff the back up rig incase another call came in while the 24 car was out. The Sunday 24 would be covered by one of us and the ops manager. Dispatch would be covered by 3/4 12 split for both day and night dispatch. 

So, with that very basic idea, we spent a couple months and ran all the numbers we could think of. From ambulances to staples, We went through everything you may need and factored it in. Or so we thought. We both had worked in the field for a while by the time we started working on this and thought, "How hard could it be?" We had grandiose plans of paying everyone good money and having the best stuff, but soon we were cutting corners left and right trying to get cost down. 

We went and talked to company owners. From guys who were running real profitable companies to guys who just bought a rig and, "I worked at my current company until I stole enough supplies to stock our rig. Then we were in business." Every one we talked to said don't do it.

What we came up with was as follows. 

Startup: $120,000. This number would always fluctuate.
Operating cost for 1 month: $33,488.
Operating cost for 6 months: $200,928.

Employee payroll without benifits (4 EMTs, 4 Dispatchers, 1 Ops Manager, and 1 biller.) for 1 month was $20,760.
By the end of all our tweaking, Everyone, but the Ops manager, was payed $10hr and we never factored in paying ourselves. 

There is still a myriad of things we never figured out. Which would really increase our start up costs. I have lists of things with question marks by them. 

A. Licensing costs 
    1. State/CHP requirements?
    2. DMV Fees? 
    3. County business license?
    4. City business license's?
    5. Other?
B. Insurance requirements
    1. Vehicles? 
    2. Workers comp?
    3. Health benifits? 
    4. Other?
C. Miscellaneous
    1. CAD System?
    2. Radio Frequencies/FCC licensing?
    3. Tracking employee hours? 
    4. Where does the O2 come from? 
    5. EPCR?
    6. Marketing Supplies?
    7. Medical Director?
    8. Other?

Much to my buddy's protest, you can't just buy a rig off craigslist in the morning and be running calls that night. Starting your own company is doable. LA is a testament that anyone can buy rig, and maybe a fire truck, and declare themselves an ambulance company, but if you haven't thought of everything, and I mean everything, it'll swamp you eventually. 

I have no idea what our supervisors do. I see them every so often when I go to main. They're sitting at their desk drinking Pepto Bismol from the bottle and staring at a piece of paper like an alien who has never seen such technogy before. They're just two steps up the ladder and look like they're about to break. My buddy and I had a combined 3 years of EMS experience when we thought this out. Now with 6 years in the field, I still wouldn't be comfortable taking this on. If I don't know what my Supervisor does every day. How could I be his boss? I'd still like to try it, but I'd need at least a handful of years as an Ops manager or a ton of money to just throw at it. 

You may have all the passion in the world for helping other people, but if the calls aren't coming in, or medicare again kicked back that transport, or your plan isn't completly squared away, you're not going to be providing for your family. You'll soon be astronomically in debt and living in your ambulance van down by the river. 

TLDR: Didn't buy the rig off Craigslist. Decided it was a bad idea.


----------



## Run with scissors (Jun 2, 2015)

can we discuss your business model? im very good at generating profits. i would like to see if its something i could do, or help you do maybe?


----------



## daniel allen (Jun 2, 2015)

Tigger said:


> First of all, there are lots of EMS services operated for profit. Just like how much of healthcare is.
> 
> With that out of the way, any agency that does not operate as a business is doing itself a huge injustice. I work for a third service tax district, so we are far from for profit. We have a guaranteed revenue stream from property tax so we are in better shape than many places. But we absolutely operate like any for-profit cooperation because recessions happen and revenues decrease. We used to be able to make ends meet each year with the combination of tax revenue, insurance reimbursement, and grants. For a while, this was enough to allow us to save money for bad times, like now.
> 
> ...



Wrong yall have the right way of doing it because yall charge the government not the person that needs your assistance im just saying that people need to stop discouraging and there is a way around coming out of pocket to start it up and what I mean by running it as a business is turning patients aww because they don't have money or insurance if that's the way you run than you ought to be ashamed


----------



## Chris07 (Jun 2, 2015)

Run with scissors said:


> can we discuss your business model? im very good at generating profits. i would like to see if its something i could do, or help you do maybe?


I doubt he's still around. This thread is over 3 years old.


----------



## medicaltransient (Jun 2, 2015)

I say go for it!
Good luck


----------



## daniel allen (Jun 2, 2015)

Chris07 said:


> I doubt he's still around. This thread is over 3 years old.


All I can say is at least someone on here is positive and wants to help at least


----------



## chaz90 (Jun 2, 2015)

daniel allen said:


> All I can say is at least someone on here is positive and wants to help at least


Daniel. You're 18 years old, you're not even an EMT yet, and you have absolutely no idea what it takes to run a successful business, EMS or otherwise. Listen to the people who have a tiny bit of experience on this one.


----------



## Ewok Jerky (Jun 2, 2015)

chaz90 said:


> Daniel. You're 18 years old, you're not even an EMT yet, and you have absolutely no idea what it takes to run a successful business, EMS or otherwise. Listen to the people who have a tiny bit of experience on this one.


Stop being all negative dude!


----------



## squirrel15 (Jun 2, 2015)

Ewok Jerky said:


> Stop being all negative dude!


Don't call him dude pal!


----------



## RocketMedic (Jun 2, 2015)

I think we should sticky this thread lol.


----------



## LACoGurneyjockey (Jun 2, 2015)

@Sultan Mohammed?


----------



## Ewok Jerky (Jun 3, 2015)

squirrel15 said:


> Don't call him dude pal!


Don't call me pal, buddy.


----------



## NomadicMedic (Jun 3, 2015)

squirrel15 said:


> Don't call him dude pal!



I'm not your buddy, friend!


----------



## akflightmedic (Jun 3, 2015)

Friend?! Surely you cannot be serious?


----------



## medicdan (Jun 3, 2015)

akflightmedic said:


> Friend?! Surely you cannot be serious?


Don't call me Shirley, mate.


----------



## dkelly256 (Aug 12, 2017)

emt for life said:


> I was wondering if it would be a good idea to take business classes my local community college and use that toward starting my own Ambulance service. Would it be a good idea? How much would it cost? I do know what materials are needed because I am an EMT myself, so supplies and that kind of stuff isn't the problem. It is just the basics of how much it does cost and is it worth the hassle?




are you still looking at this?


----------

