# Murder suspect sent by ambulance*no cops*



## DT4EMS (Jan 26, 2007)

Now I am hacked!!!


The ambulance administrator for our service just left my office. He is a great guy and backs the DT4EMS program. He came to ask some advice regarding a recent incident.

He walks in and asks “Would you ever un-arrest a murder suspect and send them by ambulance to the hospital…… without police escort?”

He was asking about what I would have done had I have still been in law enforcement.

I asked him what was going on and he stated “They (sheriff/deputies) told the crew they were not going to go with the ambulance to the hospital and didn’t want to be responsible for the bill. “

I started coming unglued!

A little background………..

Last week a man (allegedly) went into an apartment to kill his ex-wife/girlfriend and her boyfriend. He pulled the trigger and NADA.

So……. He leaves, goes next door, and asks to borrow the neighbor’s phone. In cold blood he shoots the neighbor in the head.

A manhunt ensues. They find the guy in the woods and his elbow was injured. 

Now………. Like I said……….. people don’t believe EMS are potential victims of assaults. This just friggin proves it.


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## BossyCow (Jan 26, 2007)

Hmmm back in EMT class.. when verbalizing a scenario.. first thing we would ask is "Is the scene safe?"  I don't take any risks of that nature any more no matter who tells me it's okay. 

I had a sheriff send a gal to the ER in my rig only to have the ER charge nurse refuse to let her in the door until I had the sheriff on the phone assuring the staff that she had been thoroughly searched for weapons. Seriously, met the rig outside the ER doors saying No! Apparently she had a history.


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## DT4EMS (Jan 26, 2007)

BossyCow said:


> Hmmm back in EMT class.. when verbalizing a scenario.. first thing we would ask is "Is the scene safe?"  I don't take any risks of that nature any more no matter who tells me it's okay.
> 
> I had a sheriff send a gal to the ER in my rig only to have the ER charge nurse refuse to let her in the door until I had the sheriff on the phone assuring the staff that she had been thoroughly searched for weapons. Seriously, met the rig outside the ER doors saying No! Apparently she had a history.



Pfft......... but is was supposed to be "OK" for you to sit with her outside.......

People really hack me off..........


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## BossyCow (Jan 26, 2007)

DT4EMS said:


> Pfft......... but is was supposed to be "OK" for you to sit with her outside.......
> 
> People really hack me off..........



Wasn't the issue, cop had searched her, she was fine, nurse just wouldn't take my word for it, wanted to talk to the cop directly.  Nurse didn't care if I was safe.  She was merely trying to make a point with the cop. 

The girl was released from a local women's prison earlier that day, they gave her a bus ticket home and a bottle of valium.  She got home with 3 valium left in the bottle, a severe buzz and a bunch of new bus friends.


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## Airwaygoddess (Jan 27, 2007)

I have taken care of more ems personal due to these type of incidents, and so of those folks never got back on the rigs due to the injuries that they received from "patients".  Now more then ever we need these classes to be taught to protect EMS!!!


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## EMSPlace (Jan 28, 2007)

Wow, thats putting people at a serious risk.


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## firecoins (Jan 28, 2007)

I once had a call where I was dispatched to the scene of local police.  THe dispatcher did not say for what.  On arrival they guy in cuffs has deep cuts in his wrist and needed stitches.  The police just handed me a guy in handcuffs and follwed us to the ER without telling me why he was arrsted.  A police officer is supposed to get in the rig with me on any suspect in handcuffs.  

En rounte I found out the patient was suicidal. The good thing is the police had to take him to the mental heath facility for the night.


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## Airwaygoddess (Jan 29, 2007)

If all of you folks hear a LOUD banging noise it is me hitting my head against the proverbial wall!!:wacko: Lord people can be so dumb!:blink:


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## Epi-do (Jan 29, 2007)

Please tell me this crew did not agree to transport this patient!  That is absolutely crazy!  

I am not saying that I have never made an error in judgement before - I am sure all of us have at some point.  It just seems to me that this particular situations has more than red flags, they are great big, huge, blinding, red flares.  To transport this patient goes against everything we have ever been taught about first and foremost keeping ourselves safe.


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## DT4EMS (Jan 29, 2007)

I am still waiting to see what is put in writing. Regardless..... it shouldn't have happened.


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## Ridryder911 (Jan 29, 2007)

I am curious why the patient required EMS transport ? Other wise if he is "mentally" without physical problems they go by LEO vehicle. 

You as a medic needs to say .. "Whoa !".. I would not place the vehicle into drive until * my* satisfaction was met.. such as history, why he is in cuffs, and as well obtaining an adequate history on the patient. Just because someone has the badge does not eliminate a history assessment, physical examination, etc.. 

They called me.. not the other way. You are the one responsible for *your* personal safety as well as the call. 

R/r 911


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## yowzer (Jan 31, 2007)

Ouch. Last time I took a murder suspect, a cop rode with, and another one followed...


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## jeepmedic (Feb 3, 2007)

Cop no ride, suspect no ride. 

Who are they going to point to when he runs? Cause if he points gun at me and says "I'M leaving" The only thing I will say is "OK Be careful"


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## Ridryder911 (Feb 5, 2007)

jeepmedic said:


> *Cop no ride, suspect no ride.*
> 
> "



 I love that quote !


R/r 911


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## FF/EMT Sam (Feb 5, 2007)

jeepmedic said:


> Who are they going to point to when he runs? Cause if he points gun at me and says "I'M leaving" The only thing I will say is "OK Be careful"



Amen!  

"Have fun, buddy.  I didn't see nuttin'."


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## jmaccauley (Feb 6, 2007)

Just because I have a curious nature I'll ask this. How long is it going to take before some of you ask your administrators to sponsor a DT4EMS class? Everyone here knows the problem and understands that something needs to be done. Dt4EMS can also speak with your bosses if thats the only obstacle.


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## Airwaygoddess (Feb 6, 2007)

O.k. you guys, what in the heck is a "LEO" ?:blink:


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## firecoins (Feb 6, 2007)

LEO = Law Enforcement Officer, a police officer in other words.


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## Airwaygoddess (Feb 6, 2007)

Thank-you Firecoins!!


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## Jon (Feb 9, 2007)

Wow... this is CRAZY.

I wouldn't like it from the EMS perspective, but I would FLIP if I saw this in the hospital I work security at... Why? Because PD should be babysitting this guy... further... if he elopes.. do they expect me to chase him down? Fat chance!


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## Nycxice13 (Mar 6, 2007)

Airwaygoddess said:


> O.k. you guys, what in the heck is a "LEO" ?:blink:



Its a zodiac sign!


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## Jon (Mar 6, 2007)

Nycxice13 said:


> Its a zodiac sign!


Best. Post. Ever.

(Well, not quite... but still funny)


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## EMTdiva80 (May 2, 2007)

yeah seriously, thats the craziest thing ive heard.. i didnt think a cop was allowed to do that, especially if this guy just killed people. You'd definately want a police escort. I wouldnt want to take a murder suspect anywhere with no police escort.


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## firecoins (May 4, 2007)

well he probably had an escort with him but it wasn't a Zodiac Sign. I have had zodiac sign and she's pretty expensive.


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## MEDIC213 (May 6, 2007)

We caught a call at our local county jail for a seizure. The first thing you have to understand about our county jail, is that the jailers call us for total B.S. 99.9% of the time. They generally just want us to say, "There's nothing wrong with them, they don't need to go to the hospital." So my partner and I walk in and are directed to a cell with about 6 inmates in it. Sure enough, one of them is in the floor post ictal as anyone ever was and had a pop knot on his head the size of a grapefruit.

Well, we went in with nothing but a stretcher, thinking the jailer was just being stupid. So my partner, not wanting to walk back through all the trustee's standing around in the halls, sends me out to the truck for a backboard and the trauma bag. 

My partner is a petite little thing. She stands 5'2" and weighs about 110 soaking wet. And she ain't too hard on the eyes. Well, I hated to do it, but I left her in the cell with all these inmates alone with a jailer, thinking she would be ok with him.

So, I walk back in to find that she's in there all by her little lonesome. No jailer to be seen anywhere. The dumb sucker had left her alone with 6 inmates. One of whom was naked as a jaybird.

How's that for safe?


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## akoehler (May 7, 2007)

I used to work for a little hospital as an admissions clerk, and just so happens to be the only hospital with in a 40 mile radius.  We got the drug overdoses, suicide attempts, and all that stuff.  Well there was this one county PD that would drop there pts off with an EDW and leave, expecting us to get the pt if they eloped...We didnt even have security.  Well, one morning we had a female come in very early for a suicide attempt(none the less unsuccessful).  Well, we were waiting for a room in our psych unit, and our local EMS came with a pt.  Well, our psych pt took off out our back door.  I called a code yellow (which did no good), but our EMS guys took off after her.  I called the cops, and I turned on our scanner to listen what had happen.  Well, one of the medics took off on foot, and the other ran code 3 in the ambulance after her.  They caught her block down the road.  The cops showed up, arrested her, brought her back and sat with her till she was admitted.  This little hospital has had its share of crazy things.   :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:


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## sdadam (May 7, 2007)

Oh man, I ran a call a couple of months back where PD brought us in for a late 30's female probable prostitute, def. druggy. I show up on scene and the cop takes her out of handcuffs (was in custody, but not arrested) and gives me a quick run down of what was going on...

I ask him if he searched her like I always do when taking a pt from PD, I figure there is a reason that PD was called on the person, the stupid cop tells me yeah, and that she has no weapons on her. It's pretty cold out so I get her in the back of the rig and tell her I'm going to take off her jacket so I can assess her medically, and oh my gosh well there is a 6inch knife strapped to the inside of her wrist, and as we go further there is a second in the back of her belt! luckily she wasn't violent toward me but that could have ended poorly.

funny part is the whole time she keeps telling me how she doesn't have anything else on her other than those knives, and her pipe, I see the knives but no pipe so i figure oh well she's just a little crazy, and take her to the ER. 
later that night I came back to the hospital and the charge nurse pulls me aside and tells me i turned out she did have her pipe, it was hidden by sticking it in her vagina, no joke.


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## ECC (May 10, 2007)

The locals regularly un-arrest perps around here. When I was still riding the box, it really torqued me off. I am no wilting flower, let me assure you, but I am getting too old to be going to court for messing up some perp a cop was too lazy to transport.


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