# Class of 30 only 2 pass NREMT



## halocell (Jan 17, 2013)

I am taking an EMT academy this summer , it is a nine week program and goes on monday through friday 8:30 am til 3 pm. Last summer was when the program had their first class. The class plans a day to go as a group to take the NREMT , which im guessing is to help keep everyone alittle more comfortable. Out of the class of 30 only two were able to pass the national registry. Do you think this is because of the short period of time the class runs ? Is it normal for only 2 people to pass out of a group of 30 ?


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## EpiEMS (Jan 17, 2013)

I took a 20 day, 8 hrs. per day EMT course with about 20 people, and, to my knowledge, everyone passed. That sounds like an atypically low pass rate.


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## mycrofft (Jan 17, 2013)

halocell said:


> I am taking an EMT academy this summer , it is a nine week program and goes on monday through friday 8:30 am til 3 pm. Last summer was when the program had their first class. The class plans a day to go as a group to take the NREMT , which im guessing is to help keep everyone alittle more comfortable. Out of the class of 30 only two were able to pass the national registry. Do you think this is because of the short period of time the class runs ? Is it normal for only 2 people to pass out of a group of 30 ?



Sounds like BS. Are they going to have a snipe hunt also? On the first day, did they have everyone stand up, then told you to, look left, look right, look at the people in from and behind you, then know they are not going to make it, and you aren't also?


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## ffemt8978 (Jan 17, 2013)

2 out of 30 passing sounds like instructor failure.  It was the same way when I took my EMT-B class, and after that I heard the state yanked that instructor's cert. *



* There were other reasons also that I won't get into in a public forum.


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## teedubbyaw (Jan 17, 2013)

I'd find another program.


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## Hamms (Jan 18, 2013)

We did a 5 week course, with a 6th week of prep testing. Out of 11, 9 passed first try. 

Sounds more like the program than the test.


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## STXmedic (Jan 18, 2013)

It's not the length of class. My FD puts our new cadets through a 4wk + ride outs class and have a near 100% first time pass rate. We haven't had somebody fail more than one attempt in over 5 years. Find a new class if you can. If you can't, you're left to self-study.


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## mycrofft (Jan 18, 2013)

Nursing school, early 1980's I remember it well...
class of 265, including 26 males. End of fourth year, four of the original males and about 160 overall stayed for the BSN. And one guy got his sheepskin, dropped his mortarboard into the trash, and said "F&^k this, I'm going back to bartending". Of course we had some staff looking to keep men out (and thank heavens some working hard to give us a fair chance).


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## leoemt (Jan 18, 2013)

If this is the norm then it sounds like a crappy instructor. If its not the norm then it sounds like a class that became too close and decided to party instead of study. Im leaning more towards the former. 

Taking your NREMT as a class is BS. You will take the test on NR terms not the schools terms. There are only a handful of testing sites and you will be competing for space with all the other programs. Most testing sites will only have a handful of computers devoted to the NREMT exam. 

Where I took my test they had about 40 computers in the room. Of those only 5 were set up for the NREMT exam as the others were set up for different exams. The location must comply with strict regulations from NR and they will keep a space between testers. At my location the proctor told me that there was only one computer per row set up for the NREMT.

In all honesty this sounds like posturing on the part of a former student to intimidate newer students or to make them seem more important. Any instructor who is a professional wont try to fail their students. The NR isn't there to fail you they want you to pass.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 18, 2013)

9/9 that finished medic class with me passed first try. 

NREMT isn't rocket science.

Sounds like the instructor blew it.


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## Flight-LP (Jan 18, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> 2 out of 30 passing sounds like instructor failure.  It was the same way when I took my EMT-B class, and after that I heard the state yanked that instructor's cert. *
> 
> 
> 
> * There were other reasons also that I won't get into in a public forum.



+1. The NREMT exam is a reliable and verified exam based off of specific objectives. It is also not rocket science. A low pass rate can be directly attributed to an instructor's ability to educate.

I'd find another educational institution.


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## halocell (Jan 18, 2013)

Thank you all for the advice and information. I will be sticking with this academy being that it is free and the normal cost of EMT programs around here is at 500 dollars i believe including textbooks. Itll be hard for me if the instructor is at fault but im just going to try and make sure i read the book from the first to the last page.


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## leoemt (Jan 18, 2013)

halocell said:


> Thank you all for the advice and information. I will be sticking with this academy being that it is free and the normal cost of EMT programs around here is at 500 dollars i believe including textbooks. Itll be hard for me if the instructor is at fault but im just going to try and make sure i read the book from the first to the last page.



There is the problem right there. Why is it free? If it is free because an employer or department is picking up the tab that is one thing. But if it is free as a generality then I am not surprised to see the high failure rate.

Have you ever heard the saying "you get what you pay for?" It is your education and your career. How much do you value your career? Education makes or breaks a EMT or Medic. You seem to be blinded by the fact the course is free. I understand the financial hardships but you are only hurting yourself in the long run. 

You, Your partner, your employer and your patient deserve to get a competent provider. Don't be surprised if potential employers look down at where you got your EMT. Don't be surprised if you find EMS difficult and unenjoyable because you don't have a solid foundation. 

The EMT school is your foundation which you will build upon. Crappy education = crappy foundation. 

Good luck.


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## Hamms (Jan 18, 2013)

Exactly. LEOEMT gets it. I spent $500 on my course, best thing I ever did. Excellent instructors, I feel like I got way more than $500 worth.


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## kthealy (Jan 18, 2013)

I did the unitek bootcamp in CA. 14 days, 12hrs/day EVERYDAY. Took me 3 trys to pass NREMT, but I am confident in my skills when it comes to working real life calls. The NREMT is a test that requires simple patience and knowledge to pass it.


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## leoemt (Jan 18, 2013)

kthealy said:


> I did the unitek bootcamp in CA. 14 days, 12hrs/day EVERYDAY. Took me 3 trys to pass NREMT, but I am confident in my skills when it comes to working real life calls. The NREMT is a test that requires simple patience and knowledge to pass it.



And there is a reason why it probably took you three times. Had you failed the 3rd time you would have had to retake the EMT course. 

A "bootcamp" style course is un impressive to me. They don't do anything to better the field and the providers they turn out tend to lack in some knowledge and skills due to the fast pace of the program.


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## Redland Rebel (Jan 18, 2013)

*J B Learning*

If you passsed the clinical and ride times, then buy the J B Learning and take the practice tests 100 times if need to. It will explain the right answer and why. I took the EMT-B Class at my CC and was so pumped about the program, I am getting my AS in EMS to go back to teach. Do not waste your money and try again if are not prepared. If you pass the JB Practive 150 question exams and get above a 90%, you should pass the NREMT. Good luck.


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## halocell (Jan 18, 2013)

Well the course is not free for everyone half the class is paying for it only highschool students who took part in the Firescience/First responder class at my school are getting in for free. But yes the fact that it is partly free could play a big role in the quality.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 18, 2013)

An accelerated class may not impress you, but remember that EMT is just "advanced first aid". There's no substantive in depth knowledge needed. It's basically rote memorization and repetition for simple skills. Don't make it more than it is. For example, students with a Gregorc perceptual learning style of "concrete/sequential" do very well in a boot camp style program. (And well with testing) Abstract conceptualizers may struggle.  That doesn't make the program "bad", it just means its not a good fit with the student's learning style.


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## leoemt (Jan 18, 2013)

n7lxi said:


> An accelerated class may not impress you, but remember that EMT is just "advanced first aid". There's no substantive in depth knowledge needed. It's basically rote memorization and repetition for simple skills. Don't make it more than it is. For example, students with a Gregorc perceptual learning style of "concrete/sequential" do very well in a boot camp style program. (And well with testing) Abstract conceptualizers may struggle.  That doesn't make the program "bad", it just means its not a good fit with the student's learning style.



While not making it more than what it is, it is more than "advanced first aid" as your so fond of saying.  I am sure the core material is much different than when you took the course.  It is not a simple "dummy" class. 

My course wasn't a simple course. Believe it or not we actually learned how the body works, the different systems, and even some pharmacology. I do more on a daily basis than provide a horizontal taxi to the ER. 

The nurses and doctors expect me to be competent and knowledgeable. They expect that I provide them with accurate information as to the patients condition. 

Our education may not be as indepth as the paramedic or RN programs, but we are far from simply trained. Don't dumb down my certification. You may have worked in my area before but it has changed. 

Education is what you make of it. A good basic program will make for good medics, RN's or wherever the basic decides to go. I would gladly put the skills of some of our basics against some of the Medics on here any day.


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## Aidey (Jan 18, 2013)

leoemt said:


> While not making it more than what it is, it is  more than "advanced first aid" as your so fond of saying.  *I am sure the  core material is much different than when you took the course.*  It is  not a simple "dummy" class.
> 
> My course wasn't a simple course. Believe it or not we actually learned  how the body works, the different systems, and even some pharmacology. I  do more on a daily basis than provide a horizontal taxi to the ER.
> 
> ...



You might want to take a look at the NHTSA national curriculum and what years it was published for the various levels.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 18, 2013)

leoemt said:


> While not making it more than what it is, it is more than "advanced first aid" as your so fond of saying.  I am sure the core material is much different than when you took the course.  It is not a simple "dummy" class.
> 
> My course wasn't a simple course. Believe it or not we actually learned how the body works, the different systems, and even some pharmacology. I do more on a daily basis than provide a horizontal taxi to the ER.
> 
> ...



Slow your roll there Turbo. I wasn't referring to YOUR specific course. I was speaking of the EMT course in general. It doesn't matter if its 6 months or two weeks, the course objectives have to be met and the students have to perform to a certain standard. The individual's learning style and the skill of the instructor cadre are two factors that play into the success or failure of the student.

And besides, we all know that King County EMTs are trained at a MUCH higher level than anywhere else in the country. 

/sarcasm


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## DrParasite (Jan 18, 2013)

halocell said:


> Out of the class of 30 only two were able to pass the national registry. Do you think this is because of the short period of time the class runs ? Is it normal for only 2 people to pass out of a group of 30 ?


you know, considering the class is supposedly super easy, and only taught to an 8th grade level, if 28 people failed, I can only assume that the people from SoCal are only able to function below a 8th grade level.

damn west coasters bringing down the education level of EMS

/sarcasm over, as is the ignorant comment about the education of west coasters.


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## usalsfyre (Jan 18, 2013)

*sigh*


leoemt said:


> While not making it more than what it is, it is more than "advanced first aid" as your so fond of saying.  I am sure the core material is much different than when you took the course.  It is not a simple "dummy" class.


I took the class in 2001. I helped instruct a class last year. Not a lot of difference. 



leoemt said:


> My course wasn't a simple course. Believe it or not we actually learned how the body works, the different systems,


The two aforementioned ones covered about what a high-school bio class covers. I learned some of the stuff in elementary school.  



leoemt said:


> and even some pharmacology.


Like "albuterol dilates the bronchiles" and other tidbits you can learn from doctor's office brochures? 



leoemt said:


> I do more on a daily basis than provide a horizontal taxi to the ER.


I love paramedicine, I really do. But there's a good portion of it that's simply that horizontal taxi ride. So what are you doing besides vitals on the majority of calls that makes it more than that at the BLS level. 



leoemt said:


> The nurses and doctors expect me to be competent and knowledgeable. They expect that I provide them with accurate information as to the patients condition.


Alternately they smile and nod and then go about fixing the patient.  



leoemt said:


> Our education may not be as indepth as the paramedic or RN programs, but we are far from simply trained. Don't dumb down my certification. You may have worked in my area before but it has changed.


You aren't trusted to use a NPA for cripes sake! How changed can it be?  



leoemt said:


> Education is what you make of it. A good basic program will make for good medics, RN's or wherever the basic decides to go. I would gladly put the skills of some of our basics against some of the Medics on here any day.


A good medic, RN, or med school will make a good medic, RN or physician. If they can't turn out a a decent provider without an EMT background the school needs to reevaluate itself.


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## ardsranger (Jan 28, 2013)

halocell said:


> I am taking an EMT academy this summer , it is a nine week program and goes on monday through friday 8:30 am til 3 pm. Last summer was when the program had their first class. The class plans a day to go as a group to take the NREMT , which im guessing is to help keep everyone alittle more comfortable. Out of the class of 30 only two were able to pass the national registry. Do you think this is because of the short period of time the class runs ? Is it normal for only 2 people to pass out of a group of 30 ?



That does not sound right to me. 
I would guess instructor failure if that's true.


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## teedubbyaw (Jan 28, 2013)

/facepalm


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## EMSforever (Feb 7, 2013)

For advanced our class is at 50% right now for AEMT. Im pretty sure its in line with national standards which is pretty dang sad that theyve made it this hard. We had 100% on EMT though. We have some great instructors as well.


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