# California Private Ambulance Regulations



## julie (Jul 31, 2010)

I work at a small private ambulance company in California. Most of the calls we do are a mix of interfacility transfers, hospital discharges, and SNF's or assisted living emergency calls. We also do a lot of RNCCT calls as well, but we don't run a 911 area, and aren't utilized publically.

     Lately I've suspected that the company I work with has been infringing on our rights as employees, and breaking state payroll laws. However, I've found it extremely hard to research and find California Ambulance regulations in terms of the rights of employees. 

     Does anyone know of any website or resource I could use to find out answers? As an employee group, we're totally in the dark, or just apathetic. I know our overtime rates are slightly different since we're regulated by the DOT, but I cannot find clear cut answers.


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## emtstudent04 (Jul 31, 2010)

Are you in San Diego? If you are i might know what company your talking about.


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## julie (Jul 31, 2010)

Haha, no, not in SD. I'm sure there are private ambulance companies all over california that try to get around labor laws, so I'm hoping someone has a success story and can point me in the right direction.

     Mostly, for our 24-hour shifts, we're compensated only 21 hours of straight (not-overtime) pay, the idea being we waive our 3 hour meal break times. But still, aren't we supposed to be paid overtime after 8, or at least 12 hours of continual work?


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## socalmedic (Jul 31, 2010)

no. if you are working 24  hour shifts you only get paid 1.5ot after 40 hours  in one week.


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## firecoins (Jul 31, 2010)

ot comes after working 40 hours.


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## Akulahawk (Jul 31, 2010)

In the absence of a valid, collective bargaining agreement, there's a Industrial Work Order that does cover ambulance transport. It's been about 10 years since I've looked at/for it, but there is one in effect.


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## looker (Aug 1, 2010)

Company can either pay you overtime after 8 hours or after 40 a week. That is the company choice. Generally it's 40 hours a week after which you will get overtime. So basically the company is not violating any rules. Also, employer is not required to pay for your "sleeping" time.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 1, 2010)

The last time I checked, a company can pay you 13 hours/24 hour shift... if they take you out of service for "lunch" for breakfast/lunch/dinner... and the unpaid sleeptime. And that 13 hours is all that counts towards your 40. At least during sleeptime, if you get a call, you're paid... I think OT... but it's been a LONG time since I've even read the applicable Work Order...

OUCH!


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## SOPemt (Aug 1, 2010)

emtstudent04 said:


> Are you in San Diego? If you are i might know what company your talking about.



I'm sure EVERY private, BLS company in San Diego is breaking some sort of labor law.  It's BLS - can't fight it, only get out as soon as you can.


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## Sandog (Aug 1, 2010)

Akulahawk said:


> The last time I checked, a company can pay you 13 hours/24 hour shift... if they take you out of service for "lunch" for breakfast/lunch/dinner... and the unpaid sleeptime. And that 13 hours is all that counts towards your 40. At least during sleeptime, if you get a call, you're paid... I think OT... but it's been a LONG time since I've even read the applicable Work Order...
> 
> OUCH!



Just to back up what you said. I found this.

Source: http://www.harriskaufman.com/overtime-emts-paramedics.htm



> California has a special rule for "ambulance drivers and attendants" who work 24-hours shifts. If certain conditions are met, the rule permits employers to schedule ambulance drivers and attendants to work 24 hours without paying daily overtime pay. The California daily overtime rule states:
> 
> "The daily overtime provision of subsection (A) above shall not apply to ambulance drivers and attendants scheduled for 24-hour shifts of duty who have agreed in writing to exclude from daily time worked not more than three (3) meal periods of not more than one (1) hour each and a regularly scheduled uninterrupted sleeping period of not more than eight (8) hours. The employer shall provide adequate dormitory and kitchen facilities for employees on such a schedule.
> 
> ...


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## mrhunt (Apr 22, 2018)

Sooooooo...........The 8 hour rest period HAS to be un-interrupted?

so if you get a 911 call's throughout the night and have to run them, thats interupted and hence have to be compensated the full 24? Or how does that work?


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## Jim37F (Apr 22, 2018)

Without having read thru the rest of the 8 year old thread, 

I can say that at my previous private ambulance job in LA (McCormick Ambulance), they paid us only 22 hours. I believe the rule was something like 5 uninterrupted hours of sleep between 11 and 7 or something like that, but if you ran a call that interrupted that 5 hours, yes you'd get paid the full 24.

How much of those were internal rules, and how much of that was dictated by state law, couldn't tell ya.


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## RocketMedic (Apr 22, 2018)

You know, a lot of liability and heartache could be avoided by paying straight time...


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## Akulahawk (Apr 22, 2018)

Jim37F said:


> Without having read thru the rest of the 8 year old thread,
> 
> I can say that at my previous private ambulance job in LA (McCormick Ambulance), they paid us only 22 hours. I believe the rule was something like 5 uninterrupted hours of sleep between 11 and 7 or something like that, but if you ran a call that interrupted that 5 hours, yes you'd get paid the full 24.
> 
> How much of those were internal rules, and how much of that was dictated by state law, couldn't tell ya.


If they were paying for 22 of 24 hours, then they were officially taking you out of service for two 1 hour meal breaks and paying for 1 and keeping you "on call" during that 1 hour meal break. The rest was internal. They don't have to pay for three 1 hour meal breaks and they don't have to pay for a _regularly scheduled_ sleep period. They cannot move the start/end time of that sleep period around. That makes for a 13 paid/24 hour shift. If you get paid more hours than that, that's great. Where they will try to short _you_ is not paying you appropriately for missed meals and for actual time worked during the regularly scheduled sleep period.  

Here's parts of the Work Order (IWC article 9):


> employees shall not be employed more than eight (8) hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless the employee
> receives one and one-half (1 1/2 ) times such employee’s regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 hours in the workweek.
> 
> Eight (8) hours of labor constitutes a day’s work. Employment beyond eight (8) hours in any workday or more than six (6) days in any
> ...



This applies to "ambulance drivers and attendants" in that it impacts daily overtime... note the very specific language. 


> (K) The daily overtime provision of subsection (A) above shall not apply to ambulance drivers and attendants scheduled for 24- hour shifts of duty who have agreed in writing to exclude from daily time worked not more than three (3) meal periods of not more than one (1) hour each and a regularly scheduled uninterrupted sleeping period of not more than eight (8) hours. The employer shall provide adequate dormitory and kitchen facilities for employees on such a schedule.


Now then, there's a court case that's at the California Supreme Court, going through pre-hearing stuff, that potentially could radically change all of this because generally employees that are in "sleep time" could be considered "on-call" and are subject to employer control. There's an earlier case involving security guards under IWC order #4 that probably sparked this... Looking ahead, if the California Supreme Court determines that all time spent at work is compensable, then you can wave 24 hour shifts goodbye.

Also do NOT forget that a lot of the wage/hour provisions in an Industrial Work Order can be modified by valid collective bargaining agreements and when those are in place, both sides must follow that agreement.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 23, 2018)

It’s illegal in Ma to play these games with wages. We get paid bell to bell, 1.5 over 40, no meal breaks to worry over and we get paid to sleep. We don’t get paid more to do calls and less to sleep, we’re just paid. 

In a former imprecation of my current employer, they tried to play those games. This goes back about thirty years. Somebody sued, it became a class action and my company paid out a fortune in back wages to make up for all the time they stole.

I have never, and would seriously struggle with the decision to, work for an employer that is unwilling to pay for properly. It’s painfully simple. If I am not free to do as I please, then I am on the clock and need to be paid accordingly. Why people in this day and age put up with this is beyond me. I get that one person cant fight city hall, so I’m not singling any of you out at individuals. What I’m saying is I don’t know why the lot of us are standing idly by why our employers are proving us. Obviously, this extends beyond the topic immediately at hand, so I’ll leave it there before we get a “stay on topic” nastygram, but you get my point I hope.


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