# Pepper spray/tear gas



## Airwaygoddess

Could someone give me the "recipe" for the baking soda and H20 mix for post care of pepper spray and tear gas.  I thank you in advance!


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## jmaccauley

I haven't heard of that solution used for pepper or tear gas, but we use fresh air and copious amounts of water. We have also found that milk will neutralize most OC Spray formulas. Keep in mind that there are several types of Mace, CS and CN gas commonly used. You are most likely to come in contact with OC Spray (pepper).


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## MMiz

I've never heard of [SIZE=-1]NaHCO3 & H20 as a combination to help the pain.  I'd suggest large amounts of cold running water if possible.  A garden hose works perfectly.
[/SIZE]


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## Asclepius

We frequently get called to "check out" people who have been sprayed. Recently there has been some discussion about rinsing with water. Apparently, some people feel that rinsing with water causes the irritants to run in to the back of the throat which isn't good for the airway. Any thoughts on that?


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## Rattletrap

There is some good reading on different types of field treatments that you can use here.

http://urgencemanif.meagerman.net/chem.html

You do have to be aware of the agent used. As jmaccauley states.


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## Airwaygoddess

Hmmm... I know about lots of flushing with H2O, baby shampoo to wash that stuffoff, but I thought I saw a post about it here from SandboxMedic.  Maybe I misread the post....Paging SandboxMedic!!


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## Airwaygoddess

Rattletrap said:


> There is some good reading on different types of field treatments that you can use here.
> 
> http://urgencemanif.meagerman.net/chem.html
> 
> You do have to be aware of the agent used. As jmaccauley states.



Thank You Rattletrap!


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## Rattletrap

Airwaygoddess said:


> Thank You Rattletrap!



Glad to be of service!


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## sandboxmedic

*baking soda/water for CS exposure*

I originally posted that treatment. 1 box baking soda per "roughly" 3-4 gallons of water in a bucket.We tore up a couple hospital sheets to make rags. We would test out everything on the market that was "new" but for an immediate gross decon (ie post riot exposure, large group etc) that system works great for a rapid depolyment thing. If ya have 1 -2 people and a hose is readily available, and its not mid winter outside, go for it. We were fortunate to get all the police recruits/sheriff dept folks going through Gas training every 4 months, so id say we've treated in excess of 100+ and taken their feedback on it. Baby shampoo also works, baby WIPES do not, and most "
sudocon" wipes tend to sit in vehicles or med bags FOREVER and end up drying out in the foil, exactly like alcohol swabs will sometimes do. Keep in mind that a straight flow of water does tend to "re-activate" the agent. 
And as much as I wanted too, some of the more difficult patients I thought could have used the deck gun from the fire dept at full blast...HAHAHAHh34r:


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## Rattletrap

sandboxmedic said:


> I originally posted that treatment. 1 box baking soda per "roughly" 3-4 gallons of water in a bucket.We tore up a couple hospital sheets to make rags. We would test out everything on the market that was "new" but for an immediate gross decon (ie post riot exposure, large group etc) that system works great for a rapid depolyment thing. If ya have 1 -2 people and a hose is readily available, and its not mid winter outside, go for it. We were fortunate to get all the police recruits/sheriff dept folks going through Gas training every 4 months, so id say we've treated in excess of 100+ and taken their feedback on it. Baby shampoo also works, baby WIPES do not, and most "
> sudocon" wipes tend to sit in vehicles or med bags FOREVER and end up drying out in the foil, exactly like alcohol swabs will sometimes do. Keep in mind that a straight flow of water does tend to "re-activate" the agent.
> And as much as I wanted too, some of the more difficult patients I thought could have used the deck gun from the fire dept at full blast...HAHAHAHh34r:



How does that work for CN or OC?


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## sandboxmedic

Ive found it works good for either agent(CS/OC), even the combination of the 2 sometimes known as "clear out". Now when i say "works" i mean in reference to immediately starting to decrease the reaction on the skin, NOT to the airway. If i was helping them decon,besides having recruits work on each other, i would start with the forehead, work my way down, ensuring no cross contamination toward either eye. Its not an instant cure all, but took about half the time of air dry, less time/mess than using a garden hose, and a lot cheaper than wasting multiple bottles $$$$ of saline or sterile water. I have been hit with all 3 plus, mil-grade tear gas ( at diff intervals..woohoo that woulda sucked  and it worked pretty good. Mil-grade tear gas obviously took a bit longer. 

Heres an idea get with your local Tac-medics and/or police/sheriff dept. when they do gas training. CS/OC 
try these out, see what you like best:
-baby shampoo
-copious water (make note of how many bottles you use on 1 patient for $$$ later)
-sudokon wipes
-baby wipes(if you want to, i wouldnt recommended it though, it stings far worse-personal experience...)
-baking soda/water
if anything it may give ya good idea on what youd need for a bigger decon issue/riot decon/ maybe even utilize the FD for it.
Hope this helps

*note:im not a chemist by any means,and i havent tested the potential "acidity" of these products either. But since the baking soda is really just a base, its my guess thats where the neutralizing affect is coming from as opposed to just water, or a wet rag/4X4 etc.


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## Jon

Rattletrap said:


> There is some good reading on different types of field treatments that you can use here.
> 
> http://urgencemanif.meagerman.net/chem.html
> 
> You do have to be aware of the agent used. As jmaccauley states.


Intresting website... for someone with a "national security" mindset, it is intresting to see that protesters have a developed medical care system.


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## Rattletrap

Jon said:


> Intresting website... for someone with a "national security" mindset, it is intresting to see that protesters have a developed medical care system.



Yea. when I got to thinking about what was being asked for, I realized that the anarchist would have the answer. They also have an interesting cook book I keep tabs on as a firefighter. It is important to know what they are cooking for dinner besides what I have on the stove.


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## Jon

Rattletrap said:


> Yea. when I got to thinking about what was being asked for, I realized that the anarchist would have the answer. They also have an interesting cook book I keep tabs on as a firefighter. It is important to know what they are cooking for dinner besides what I have on the stove.


Yeah. It is amazing the amount of HOMEGROWN "terrorist groups" that operate within the USA.

Look at the ALF!


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## PArescueEMT

Rattletrap said:


> There is some good reading on different types of field treatments that you can use here.
> 
> http://urgencemanif.meagerman.net/chem.html
> 
> You do have to be aware of the agent used. As jmaccauley states.



wow... you mean the government hasn't put a stop to that yet??? i'm supprised and am now expacting everything to go down again alot sooner than i first thought. Thanks for the link rattletrap!


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## burntbob

*Street( Protest )medics sources*

Theres a lot of " unofficial " research and trial and error experimentation been done by the folks who believe in civil demonstration. The information is often very practical and sound alternative treatment. 

here's an example

http://www.rantcollective.com/article.php?id=45
DO NOT RUB IT IN. 
Remedies
We have been doing trials with pepper spray to find good remedies and have found some things will definitely help minimize the discomfort. None of these are miracle cures; using these remedies will help people to feel better faster, but it will still take time. 
For the eyes and mouth: 


We recommend a solution of half liquid antacid (like Maalox) and half water. A spray bottle is ideal but a bottle that has a squirt cap works as well. Always irrigate from the inside corner of the eye towards the outside, with head tilted back and slightly towards the side being rinsed. It seems from our trials that it needs to get into the eye to help. This means that if the sprayed person says it's okay you should try to open their eye for them. They most likely won't be able/willing to open it themselves, and opening will cause a temporary increase in pain, but the solution does help. It works great as a mouth rinse too. 


For the skin: 


We recommend canola oil followed by alcohol. Carefully avoiding the eyes, vigorously wipe the skin that was exposed to the chemical with a rag or gauze sponge saturated with canola oil. Follow this immediately with a rubbing of alcohol. Remember that alcohol in the eyes hurts A LOT. Anyone whose eyes you get alcohol in will not be your friend. 
Secondary treatments can include: spitting, blowing your nose, coughing up mucous (you don't want to swallow these chemicals!), walking around with your arms outstretched, removing contaminated clothing, and taking a cool shower. In fact, it is essential to shower and wash your clothes (this time in real detergents--no eco-friendly stuff here) as soon as you are able. This :censored::censored::censored::censored: is toxic, and will continually contaminate you and everyone around you until you get rid of it. Until then, try not to touch your eyes or your face, or other people, furniture, carpets etc. to avoid further contamination.


I'd suggest these sources to see a wide variety of information on both pepper spray and tear gas treatments but also H&S related stuff any medic on either side of the barricades could appreciate.



http://blackcrosscollective.org/pub

Black Cross Training Outlines
An Activist's Guide to Basic First Aid
Gear List

Brave? Crazy? Black Cross' Pepper Spray Trials

http://blackcrosscollective.org/OCTrials


http://www.bostoncoop.net/balm/index.html#lib

http://barhc.w2c.net/blog/index.php?/archives/4-Health-Safety-for-Activists.html#chem


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## jwalsh

The best thing for oc and cs is to carry Johnsons baby shampoo in the truck it will clean out the oc cs and will not harm the eyes just plan water will help with the burning only as long as you keep the affected area submerged but you do not want the patient to drown do you!


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## jmaccauley

Also facing into the wind, or a fan helps. Air drying will prevent the spreading of the OC particles as well as keeping them from embedding deeper into the mucous membranes that are already inflamed.


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## bstone

After watching this video I think I'll be carrying around the maalox/water mix. Never know when I'll be maced for walking down the street.
http://break.com/index/miami-police-mace-students.html


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## Tactical Medic

When i was a young medic in NYC we just used H20-  Worked good enough, was readibly available, and didn't cost a red cent 

And believe this when i say that most of our pts were school age-  when an unruly kid got out of hand in a school, NYPD would spray the whole classroom, Gym, or even lunchroom... Can you say Charlie Foxtrot? :wacko:


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## Grady_emt

Baby Shampoo Question...

Do you use the baby shampoo straight up, or dilute with H20?  What ratio?


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## Jon

for my class, we used it dilluted in a food-service washtub. I don't know the exact amount.... but it seemed to work 

I think we also had a spray bottle of sugar water.


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## Aileana

Ran a MCI involving pepper spray and a house party recently, and we just used lots of saline. With a primed saline bag (think we used 1000's), we just put a sheet over the patient's clothes, tilted their head to the side, and flushed the eye with saline from the tear duct to the other corner for as long as they could tolerate. What might also work is attaching the end of the drip line to a nasal cannula, and placing each of the prongs on either side of the top of the nose, allowing the saline to cleanse the eyes via the tear ducts (similar to how the eyes would naturally cleanse themselves). Don't know if I'd risk using anything that could potentially cause a reaction on such a sensitive area as the eyes...


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