# EMT makes big mistake



## Detroitemt (Nov 20, 2017)

So last weekend was my brothers birthday and he wanted me to smoke with him. I was very hesitant because it took everything in me to leave that behind when I first got into ems. After a few drinks I said a few puffs won't hurt so I did. The very next day at work I ended up getting a random. My heart just stopped. Of course I ended up failing. My question is. Is  the company I work for required to Inform DHS about my failed test?


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## PotatoMedic (Nov 20, 2017)

Not a clue.  Every state has different reporting requirements.  You could call the state and find out what the requirements are.


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## RocketMedic (Nov 20, 2017)

Sounds like you screwed up.


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## Akulahawk (Nov 21, 2017)

A few things: One, you done screwed up. Two, own up to it with the company. Three, no clue if your company is required to report the test results. If you're lucky, they (whomever "they" are) may see this as a single, one-off bout of stupidity and keep you under close watch and another hiccup and you're done. That's if you're really lucky. If you're not so lucky, you could lose your cert, (may or may not be relatively permanent), you could lose your job, and you could have a very difficult time finding another job _if_ you manage to keep your cert. 

Hopefully things will turn out OK and you'll have learned a very hard lesson that _every_ day could very well be a _random_ test day. 

Oh, and sometimes "random" tests aren't exactly "random" as it very well could be that someone noticed that _something_ was different about you, just _hours_ after you drank and had a few puffs. If this is how your "random" test came to be, you'll never know and it's possible that the company doesn't actually know who reported their suspicions. Anonymous reports sometimes are exactly that: truly anonymous. 

Best of luck to you!


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## DrParasite (Nov 21, 2017)

I don't think drug use while on the job is a mandatory reporting to the state, provided it didn't compromise patient care.  But your state might be different.

You will probably lose your job (as you rightly should, sorry, but I have no sympathy for you).  And when they ask why you are not with your former employer, "failed a drug test" is generally not a good answer.

If you have random drug tests at work, why even risk it?  Just say no, and if they press say "I can't, they do random drug tests at work, and I know how bad my lucky is"


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## Lo2w (Nov 21, 2017)

I'd start digging through policy manuals. Mine has the possibility of a last chance agreement but its discretionary. If you have an employee assistance program reach out and see about drug treatment/counseling programs then approach your employer and own it.


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## Parameduck (Nov 25, 2017)

That sucks. Sorry to hear about this. Many angencies out west don't even test for thc metabolites in urine as laws are changing. Own up to it, be sincere about your mistake, and plan on finding a new job.


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## FK911 (Nov 29, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> I don't think drug use while on the job is a mandatory reporting to the state, provided it didn't compromise patient care.  But your state might be different.
> 
> You will probably lose your job (as you rightly should, sorry, but I have no sympathy for you).  And when they ask why you are not with your former employer, "failed a drug test" is generally not a good answer.
> 
> If you have random drug tests at work, why even risk it?  Just say no, and if they press say "I can't, they do random drug tests at work, and I know how bad my lucky is"



It’s obvious the OP came here looking for support. 
He  never smoked weed that much so he is new to the process. 
Weed is not a term used in all states. 
By the way. 
Weed is legal in the state I work in. 
And I have never heard of someone failing  for a single binge session on the weed pipe. 
So.... I suspect the OP might have been toking more than he says. 
I have no interest in weed or booze really 
Yoga and Tea yes. 
Since a drug test is a condition of employment 
If u don’t know what that means 
Start with Blacks Law Dictionary and go from there. 
Williston on contracts migh also help. 
But..... reporting to the state EMS authority? 
Well the Cert is Privlage and if there is a condition... 
then there might be an issue 

In conclusion which follows the 
IRAC 
issue 
Rule.
 Application 
Conclusion 

I would say that in support of the OPs question... 
Stop smoking weed if you want to be in a highly regulate profession such as PRE- hospital care  detox and move on. 
Getting another job is going to be the big hurdle 
As they can reply to a future employer you failed a drug test.


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## TransportJockey (Nov 29, 2017)

FK911 said:


> It’s obvious the OP came here looking for support.
> .........
> But..... reporting to the state EMS authority?
> Well the Cert is Privlage and if there is a condition...
> then there might be an issue


Here in TX, DSHS can and will suspend your license if your employer reports you for a failed drug test. Weed might be legal in your individual state, but it's still illegal at the federal level and you can be fired for popping positive on a urine dip. And as for support... he can come for it, but he's going to get opinions from posters here who have been doing this career for a whiel, even if he doesn't think it's supportive


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## DrParasite (Nov 29, 2017)

FK911 said:


> It’s obvious the OP came here looking for support.


 he might have came looking for support, but I'm going to be honest with him about his situation, not just blow smoke up his ***





FK911 said:


> Weed is legal in the state I work in.
> And I have never heard of someone failing  for a single binge session on the weed pipe.


Why don't you ask your boss what happens when someone tests positive for having this legal drug in their system?  or even better, why don't you give me the name and number of your agency,and I will call them tomorrow and ask them what their thoughts on having an employee who tests positive for marijuana while on the job?

BTW, alcohol is legal in my state (and in most states) but I'm pretty sure if I were to get pulled aside and given a breathalyzer, and blew a 0.07 (or anything above 0.0001), I would be told to not come in to work tomorrow.


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## mikeward (Nov 30, 2017)

Detroitemt said:


> So last weekend was my brothers birthday and he wanted me to smoke with him. I was very hesitant because it took everything in me to leave that behind when I first got into ems. After a few drinks I said a few puffs won't hurt so I did. The very next day at work I ended up getting a random. My heart just stopped. Of course I ended up failing. My question is. Is  the company I work for required to Inform DHS about my failed test?


1) Reporting to DHS varies from state to state

2) Many states require a failed drug test be reported to the Office of EMS ... which places your EMS certification in jeopardy.

If you have not already done so, review the personnel regulations for your organization. Some offer a "disciplinary diversion" program where you go for assessment/counseling and sign an agreement that - if you fail a second drug test - you will be immediately terminated without opportunity for appeal.

Good luck and let us know what happened.

Mike


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## FK911 (Dec 4, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> he might have came looking for support, but I'm going to be honest with him about his situation, not just blow smoke up his ***Why don't you ask your boss what happens when someone tests positive for having this legal drug in their system?  or even better, why don't you give me the name and number of your agency,and I will call them tomorrow and ask them what their thoughts on having an employee who tests positive for marijuana while on the job?
> 
> BTW, alcohol is legal in my state (and in most states) but I'm pretty sure if I were to get pulled aside and given a breathalyzer, and blew a 0.07 (or anything above 0.0001), I would be told to not come in to work tomorrow.


If you relplying  to me. I am the boss. I am the director.
You have responded to 2 of my posts on this forum in a very hostile way.
I don’t smoke weed. Like I said above.
The “looking for support” was satire in response to another post where u said the OP was looking for support.
Our personal guidelines... there is really no such thing as regulations. Our guidelines and our attorney would recommend that we ask the employee to resign.
We have actually dealt with this issue already.
In California you must offer an employee assistance program.
In order to get a termination with cause on good footing the employee needs three discipline actions in the employee file.
Most employees are not aware of this but we have been in administrative court over this same issue.
California D..of Economic Security will take the employees side and pay unemployment benefits to the employee. This event is enough to have a wrongfull termination cause of action brought to the employer by employees attorney. ( Attorneys in California are like mosquitoes in Florida) so.... the employee needs nothing to get an attorney.
So...if one of our employees test positve.( and police, Fire , and BP all have the same EOP as we have and we follow the guilelines they recommend.
The employee is referred to the EOP and must complete a program before returning to work.
It some cases they can demand light duty. Especially if they have an attorney.
If they do not complete the rehab program
Then they are at strike three as strike one is failure of the drug test
Strike 2 was conditional upon EOP plan
This is any business best business practice to avoid litagation.
The mandatory reporting to EMS is another issue
As far as I have been told we are not under a duty to report. Without a criminal action that was part of the drug issue.


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## DrParasite (Dec 4, 2017)

FK911 said:


> If you relplying  to me. I am the boss. I am the director.


So whose above you?  the board of directors?  the town administrator?  I'm glad you think you're the boss, but in my experience, everyone (even the boss) has a boss.  You might be the director (in fact, I'll even stipulate that you are), but that doesn't mean there isn't a person or a group of people who can terminate your employment for cause.  I mean, your the director, not dictator....

BTW, my CEO (I know work for a non-profit in corporate america) oversees approximately 5,000 people.  He is the president of our organization.  And even he answers to the Board of Directors, who are elected to their positions from our membership.  So it's not just you, everyone has a boss, even the people at the top.





FK911 said:


> You have responded to 2 of my posts on this forum in a very hostile way.


You know I had to look up what the other post was.  The reason I was "hostile," as you describe it, was because you gave bad advice and came across as as jack***.  I explained why you were incorrect.  Sorry your feelings were hurt; I would think a Director would be ok with people explaining to them why they were wrong.  But again, some people have thin skin.   I actually figured you read my response and realized why you were wrong, and didn't give it another thought.


FK911 said:


> Our personal guidelines... there is really no such thing as regulations. Our guidelines and our attorney would recommend that we ask the employee to resign.
> We have actually dealt with this issue already.


sounds like good guidance.... but I need to ask, why should the employee resign?  Is there any benefit to the employee at all, or is it all for the benefit of the employer?


FK911 said:


> In California you must offer an employee assistance program.
> In order to get a termination with cause on good footing the employee needs three discipline actions in the employee file.
> Most employees are not aware of this but we have been in administrative court over this same issue.
> California D..of Economic Security will take the employees side and pay unemployment benefits to the employee. This event is enough to have a wrongfull termination cause of action brought to the employer by employees attorney. ( Attorneys in California are like mosquitoes in Florida) so.... the employee needs nothing to get an attorney.


If I'm working for you, and you catch me under the influence, you aren't going to fire me (your words, not mine).  and even if you did fire me, I can have a case for wrongful termination (again, your words, not mine).  So if you ask me to to resign, I'm going to tell you to bite my ***.  There is literally no reason anyone should do this, other than to make your job easier, because you are intimidating them into doing what you can't legally do.  

And i'm sure you (and others) have done this to the ignorant, taken advantage of the fact that they don't know any better.  This is why there needs to be unions in EMS, to prevent this type of action from occuring.


FK911 said:


> So...if one of our employees test positve.( and police, Fire , and BP all have the same EOP as we have and we follow the guilelines they recommend.
> The employee is referred to the EOP and must complete a program before returning to work.
> It some cases they can demand light duty. Especially if they have an attorney.
> If they do not complete the rehab program
> ...


Damn, I'm moving to california, and going to start smoking weed and drinking more.  and i might even take a few hits from my bong to make the job go better.  or finish that beer before I walk into work.  It's not a terminable offense; in fact, I might even be able to get assigned light duty instead of being on the ambulance (same amount of pay, with less work; win/win!!).  Of course that's all sarcasm; I couldn't handle the west coast for anything more than a short visit

We used to have Employee Assistance plans where I worked.  the rule was, if you went to EAP requesting assistance with an addiction, they would work with you, because you wanted to get help.  

If they caught you under the influence, than the EAP option was off the table, and you were more than likely terminated for showing up to work under the influence.


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## CCCSD (Nov 30, 2020)

Once a doper, always a doper.
Interesting to see that there are “Directors” who don’t have an issue with employees operating vehicles and providing patient care while unde the influence of drugs.

I‘m CA, and that statement is total BS.


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## ffemt8978 (Nov 30, 2020)

Closing this thread since it attracts spammers.


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