# NREMT CBT, A joke.



## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

I am a basic EMT in Michigan and have been for 3 years.  I took my paramedic course and passed with a 92%.  I have taken the NR medic computerized test twice now and was below passing in all catagories.  Both of my tests ended right around the 80 question mark.  I have read all of my 7 textbooks from my class 3 times each cover to cover highlighting and taking notes.  The books each had a CD that had a series of questions and scenarios at the end which I went over. I also have an ACLS/12 lead paperback and a National registry practice book.  None of which seemed to help.  I am going back to part time next week and putting it all on the line so I can start studying more and hopefully pass this 3rd try.

Im sure several people will agree with me.  Some of the dumbest basics I know have passed the NREMTP national registry first try.  Some of these people couldnt find there way out of a paper bag and openly admit they should not be paramedics.  I dont get how national registry can hold back the eager prepared basics with experience and knowledge of pre-hospital care, yet pass these incompitent basics on to be paramedics that I wouldnt trust to do CPR on my dog.

The reason medics mess up so much in the field and the reason there is such a shortage of medics everywhere is simple.
1. For the most part the wrong people pass national registry.  Mostly book smart people,  Not people that think practically.  
2. My last test I had 3 ropes and knots questions.  What does that have to do with being a paramedic?  I know there are fake questions but to have 3 of my 80 questions have nothing to do with being a paramedic?  What a joke.
3. We know the practical for the most part is a peice of cake, although it is much more accurate in deciding who should be a paramedic than the written exam.  Why not have a field exam option?
4. Where do they get these questions and drugs from?  A lot of the questions I got were things that were NEVER mentioned in the paramedic books I have, I checked after the test.  Ive also been a field basic for 3 years as I mentioned earlier and have NEVER heard of some of the meds they mention.  I have copied THOUSANDS of meds from patient charts and never heard of most of them.
5. Not enough information to the answer the question!!!!! (this question is not from memory just an example)

45 year old female with abdominal pain.  Whats causing the pain?
A.Ectopic pregnancy
B.Kidney stone
C.AAA
D.AMI
They dont give you information that will almost ALWAYS be available to you in the field. (OPQRST, Vitals, MOI)  unbelievable.

What are your thoughts?
Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.


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## KEVD18 (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.


 
the saddest part about the whole thing is that whats holding you back from being a firefighter is not being able to be a paramedic(yet). god i hate this system...........

imagine if everybody who wanted to be a cop had to be a boat captain. or if everybody that wanted to be a chef had to be a carpenter.

for the love of all that is good and holy why cant people just be required to do the job they signed up for and leave the other job to the guy that actually wants it.


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## marineman (Dec 14, 2008)

First you say the practical exam is a joke and then you say it should be used to decide who gets in the field? There are enough jokes of paramedics out there, we don't need any more by making the test even easier. I haven't taken the paramedic exam yet but I gather it's written in a similar manner to the basic exam and actually I find that it's written very well. You see when they write scenarios and don't tell you 100% about the condition it forces you to use some critical thinking rather than memorizing what the book says to do for this or that. Paramedics are not supposed to use cookbook medicine so somewhere along the line critical thinking skills must be tested and lets face it, the practical does nothing for critical thinking since you can memorize the entire check sheet you're tested on ahead of time. 

Yes there can be medics that pass the test that are only "booksmart" but they tend to naturally weed themselves out down the road as they realize they can't handle patients. In this profession you need to be well rounded with both booksmarts and streetsmarts. I could care less that you know how to cut my neck open and stick a tube in it if you don't know when or why to do it. I could care less about all those drugs you carry in that fancy lockbox if you don't know how and why they work on me. 

That said, I agree with Kev it is very sad that so many career firefighters are forced into being medics that want nothing to do with EMS. Hopefully you find a way to get that dream job but maybe EMS just isn't in the cards.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with marineman, yo ualso have to develop critical thinking skills.  You must learn to take what the textbook gives you and extend it out another 2-3 steps.  The only way to get better at this is to practice, but memorizing your text won't help yo if you don't actually understand what you are reading.


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## FF894 (Dec 14, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> for the love of all that is good and holy why cant people just be required to do the job they signed up for and leave the other job to the guy that actually wants it.




:wacko:Hmm, he's got a point here...:wacko:


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## VentMedic (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> I am a basic EMT in Michigan. I took my paramedic course and passed with a 92%
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> Im venting, ive just about had it with one test holding me from my dream job as a career firefighter.


 
Why don't you just find a nice FD somewhere to work as a FF where maybe the only medical cert you need is First Responder or EMT?



> Why not have a field exam option?





> A lot of the questions I got were things that were NEVER mentioned in the paramedic books I have,





> have NEVER heard of some of the meds they mention.


 
It would be so nice if all of the medical problems were just in that one little book? MEDICINE would be so much easier if patients were allowed just to have those few working "field" diagnoses. 

Ever think about taking a real college A&P or Pharmacology class? 

Michigan is also one of those states fighting accreditation for Paramedic programs. It is possible your school was very lenient with your 92% to just get their own "push 'em through" numbers up.


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## Ridryder911 (Dec 14, 2008)

Don't know if I would publicly whine if I failed to meet the minimum national standards of safety to a patient. Yes, that's is all the test is asking from one. 

Remember it is *NOT* the NREMT that holds back anyone! It is only a testing agency. Would you say that the NCLEX is holding back RN's, or the State Bar test holding back attorneys? Would you truly trust and individual that cannot prove to meet the minimal standards of safety? Sure, there is those that fall through the cracks in any profession as well as those that never pass that probably could perform the minimal level. That is life and nothing is absolute, unfortunately no profession can be exact. 

Now think, if one can not pass a written level examination, can they be entrusted to be intellectually sufficient to be able to keep up ? If one cannot even memorize a skill sheet and with repeated practice, really can be entrusted to provide safe care? Really, anyone can and should be able to pass any skill with repeated practice. If they cannot; I doubt their intelligence in being able to remember what to do in the real life. Would you really trust someone that could not remember what to do?

Now, you may acclaim that those you would not "_want to do CPR on your dog"_ or portrayed as being less smart; actually some how maybe smarter than you.?.. They passed. What does that reflect upon you? Maybe your study skill is poor or test taking skills is lacking. Usually one does not have poor results in both written and skills. 

In regards to the given example question. Anyone with any type of medical knowledge should have a knowledge of what the *most appropriate * answer would be. If you do not, then you do not have the required medical knowledge to be in medicine. Apparently, you have not learned medicine rather attempted to memorize. Medicine is not strictly black and white, it is a science with the application of art. This why many of those in Fire Services cannot pass such type test. It requires critical thinking skills, not just performing tasks. These are proven facts and why many fire services are protesting such type tests.. one has to make rationale decisions with sound judgement. 

Yes, it is unfortunate Fire Services require this level. Fire Service is usually a task performance profession, one is hired for below the neck line for performance. Not all; but in general.

R/r 911


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## JPINFV (Dec 14, 2008)

You know, if I had the choice of a medic who couldn't find his bum with two hands and a map or someone who thinks that experience as a basic makes it his God given right to be a paramedic even if he can't pass a test on national standards, I'd take the former.


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## reaper (Dec 14, 2008)

As Rid pointed out. The example question you put down has one obvious answer, that you should know. If this is the questions you are missing, then you need to rethink how you were educated. There is nothing wrong with the NREMT-P CBT. It is mainly common sense, with some critical thinking mixed in!


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## MSDeltaFlt (Dec 14, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> Why don't you just find a nice FD somewhere to work as a FF where maybe the only medical cert you need is First Responder or EMT?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





jlsparky7 said:


> I am a basic EMT in Michigan and have been for 3 years.  I took my paramedic course and passed with a 92%.  I have taken the NR medic computerized test twice now and was below passing in all catagories.  Both of my tests ended right around the 80 question mark.  I have read all of my 7 textbooks from my class 3 times each cover to cover highlighting and taking notes.  The books each had a CD that had a series of questions and scenarios at the end which I went over. I also have an ACLS/12 lead paperback and a National registry practice book.  None of which seemed to help.  I am going back to part time next week and putting it all on the line so I can start studying more and hopefully pass this 3rd try.
> 
> Im sure several people will agree with me.  Some of the dumbest basics I know have passed the NREMTP national registry first try.  Some of these people couldnt find there way out of a paper bag and openly admit they should not be paramedics.  I dont get how national registry can hold back the eager prepared basics with experience and knowledge of pre-hospital care, yet pass these incompitent basics on to be paramedics that I wouldnt trust to do CPR on my dog.
> 
> ...



One does not make blanket statements off of an isolated incident.  However, this speaks volumes.

Sparky, if you understand the "why", then the "what" and the "how" will make sense.  That door swings both ways.  If you *don't* understand the "why", then the "what" and the "how" *won't* make sense.

The NR can only test you on the information in the given question.  If the information is not there then they can't test you on it.  What a lot of people do is read too much into any given question.  *That's where you fail*.  You're over thinking.  What you've done is you've ended up believing you're right and everyone else is wrong.  Stop.  It's counterproductive as made evident of your scores.  Just answer the questions... and *only the questions*.  Don't read into them.

The NR is not rocket science.  I know.  I know a guy who use to build missiles for Lockhead-Martin.  D'ems rockets.  He knows what rocket science is.  Dis ain't it.

Relax.  Breathe.  And pass the cotton-pickin' test.


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## daedalus (Dec 14, 2008)

Im going to say its not AMI, because females are less likely to experience pain as a symptom of MI.

Its probably not AAA because it's typical presentation in tearing back pain.

Kidney stone might refer to the back or flank

Ectopic pregnancy is more likely with the age and obviously the gender. 

I know all of this as a basic.


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## gillysaurus (Dec 14, 2008)

^ It's interesting you break it down that way, because I was thinking AAA based solely on "what would kill her first?" and rule out options from there.


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## reaper (Dec 14, 2008)

Female age 8-80 with abd pain, think ectopic first.


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## petekf4qoe (Dec 14, 2008)

*NREMT CBT, A joke*

Ok, here is my 2 cents worth on this subject. If you have not heard of a guy named Jon Puryer you need to learn about him. Here in the Alabama area we had a very, very, very poor pass rate for National Registry. 

Jon Puryear is the Assistant to the Medical Director and is responsible for the majority of activities in the EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS ADVISORY BOARD in the state of Texas. This is probably smartest man I have have ever met when it comes to Emergency Medicine. He has a class that he teaches for the NREMT-Paramedic exam. His class does not give you the answers. It just lays it out on how to take the test in a way you would be able to understand it and pass on the first try. I took the class and then took registry and passed it on my first try. We had 15 people in our class and most all either attended the class or got the disc and listened to the class. so far 10 out of the 15 have passed registry. The other 5 either did not listen to the disc or did not put much effort into it like the rest of us. I cannot say enough about how much we all learned in just the 16 hours of taking his class. I should say that we did not really learn any more, we really just learned how to understand what we already had learned. He sells a copy of the class on his website. 

I am in no way connected to him or his website other then being one of his past students. 

Here is some other people taalking about his class: http://www.texasemt.com/web/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2040

Here is all of his contact information:

Jon Puryear
www.nationalregistryprep.com


P.S.:
The answer to this question is "A" it is always "A" until proven otherwise. 

45 year old female with abdominal pain. Whats causing the pain?
A.Ectopic pregnancy
B.Kidney stone
C.AAA
D.AMI


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## gillysaurus (Dec 14, 2008)

Guess that's why I'm still a basic


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## bstone (Dec 14, 2008)

You have a lot of very good points. I am a huge fan of clearly written, unambiguous questions that have enough info to pick the right answer. Your complaints are not old or invalid.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 14, 2008)

Disregard post.


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## Ridryder911 (Dec 14, 2008)

If your state has a poor rate on NREMT then it is because they are not teaching to National Standards. Sorry, that is all the NREMT is taken from and along with AHA ACLS and PHTLS. All national standard material 


R/r 911


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## Sjames (Dec 14, 2008)

Well to answer you question its right out of Brady's EMT-B book.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

marineman said:


> First you say the practical exam is a joke and then you say it should be used to decide who gets in the field? There are enough jokes of paramedics out there, we don't need any more by making the test even easier. I haven't taken the paramedic exam yet but I gather it's written in a similar manner to the basic exam and actually I find that it's written very well. You see when they write scenarios and don't tell you 100% about the condition it forces you to use some critical thinking rather than memorizing what the book says to do for this or that. Paramedics are not supposed to use cookbook medicine so somewhere along the line critical thinking skills must be tested and lets face it, the practical does nothing for critical thinking since you can memorize the entire check sheet you're tested on ahead of time.
> 
> Yes there can be medics that pass the test that are only "booksmart" but they tend to naturally weed themselves out down the road as they realize they can't handle patients. In this profession you need to be well rounded with both booksmarts and streetsmarts. I could care less that you know how to cut my neck open and stick a tube in it if you don't know when or why to do it. I could care less about all those drugs you carry in that fancy lockbox if you don't know how and why they work on me.
> 
> That said, I agree with Kev it is very sad that so many career firefighters are forced into being medics that want nothing to do with EMS. Hopefully you find a way to get that dream job but maybe EMS just isn't in the cards.



Yes I did say the pracitcal is a joke.  No i didnt say it should determine anything.  I said A FIELD TEST should be an option.  Real life (with another paramedic there of course).  Not dummies.

Most of being a paramedic isny critical thinking... Its applying protocols.

Most of the time those paramedics that slip through the testing process dont get weeded out.  They get the kick *** career fire jobs.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

reaper said:


> Female age 8-80 with abd pain, think ectopic first.



My book says 12-65.  More BS involved in this test.  They must be sexually active.  The question wouldnt tell you if they were or not.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

petekf4qoe said:


> Ok, here is my 2 cents worth on this subject. If you have not heard of a guy named Jon Puryer you need to learn about him. Here in the Alabama area we had a very, very, very poor pass rate for National Registry.
> 
> Jon Puryear is the Assistant to the Medical Director and is responsible for the majority of activities in the EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS ADVISORY BOARD in the state of Texas. This is probably smartest man I have have ever met when it comes to Emergency Medicine. He has a class that he teaches for the NREMT-Paramedic exam. His class does not give you the answers. It just lays it out on how to take the test in a way you would be able to understand it and pass on the first try. I took the class and then took registry and passed it on my first try. We had 15 people in our class and most all either attended the class or got the disc and listened to the class. so far 10 out of the 15 have passed registry. The other 5 either did not listen to the disc or did not put much effort into it like the rest of us. I cannot say enough about how much we all learned in just the 16 hours of taking his class. I should say that we did not really learn any more, we really just learned how to understand what we already had learned. He sells a copy of the class on his website.
> 
> ...





Thank you for the adivce.  I will look into those websites for sure.

The answer would be A if the PT was sexually active.  It doesnt tell you if the PT is.

My book says Sexually active females with abdominal pain between the ages of 12 and 65 should be assumed pregnant until proven otherwise.


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## VentMedic (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> The answer would be A if the PT was sexually active. It doesnt tell you if the PT is.
> 
> My book says Sexually active females with abdominal pain between the ages of 12 and 65 should be assumed pregnant until proven otherwise.


 
You are really making this difficult for yourself.


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## JPINFV (Dec 14, 2008)

What if the patient is altered or unconscious and the only information you have is a relative/friend that says that she was complaining of abdominal pain? Are you going to tell the friend/relative that you can't help the patient because you don't have enough information? Emergency medicine deals with a lot of cases where there is a vacuum of information.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> You are really making this difficult for yourself.



Any ideas to make it easier other than spending more money on test booklets and dvds?  Hurting for cash right now.


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## Ridryder911 (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Yes I did say the pracitcal is a joke.  No i didnt say it should determine anything.  I said A FIELD TEST should be an option.  Real life (with another paramedic there of course).  Not dummies.
> 
> Most of being a paramedic isny critical thinking... Its applying protocols.
> 
> Most of the time those paramedics that slip through the testing process dont get weeded out.  They get the kick *** career fire jobs.



* I don't treat protocols; I treat patients*!

Hence the problem; Cookbook medicine from a shake & bake medic. Expecting life to be like it is in a book.

Sorry, again medicine is not black & white. It would be much simpler but alas its not. This is why it takes education and not training. 

As well one with any mentality would never allow a non-licensed person to perform their test on a real patient. Can you imagine the litigation, the uproar of patients! There is laws against such. Can you imagine your physician performing their medical license performing on your child? How foolish! What if the candidate performed poorly? 

Sorry, it is obvious of two things. You do not know or understand what critical thinking skills are. The other you obvious have no clue what emergency medicine is and how to handle such requires.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Don't know if I would publicly whine if I failed to meet the minimum national standards of safety to a patient. Yes, that's is all the test is asking from one.
> 
> Remember it is *NOT* the NREMT that holds back anyone! It is only a testing agency. Would you say that the NCLEX is holding back RN's, or the State Bar test holding back attorneys? Would you truly trust and individual that cannot prove to meet the minimal standards of safety? Sure, there is those that fall through the cracks in any profession as well as those that never pass that probably could perform the minimal level. That is life and nothing is absolute, unfortunately no profession can be exact.
> 
> ...



Another thing.  Why have a "set in stone" answer test with a "grey area" field your going into?


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> * I don't treat protocols; I treat patients*!
> 
> Hence the problem; Cookbook medicine from a shake & bake medic. Expecting life to be like it is in a book.
> 
> ...



So I take it you didnt have to do 3rd rides or internships to get your license?  Not an attack on you but thats how you make it sound.  You have to start somewhere.  You would have a licnesed medic right next to you to stop you from messing up.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> * I don't treat protocols; I treat patients*!
> 
> Hence the problem; Cookbook medicine from a shake & bake medic. Expecting life to be like it is in a book.
> 
> ...




Dont assume I dont know what im doing because I havnt passed a rediculous test.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 14, 2008)

I can see this thread turning ugly real quick, so here's the freebie warning.

PLAY NICE!


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> What if the patient is altered or unconscious and the only information you have is a relative/friend that says that she was complaining of abdominal pain? Are you going to tell the friend/relative that you can't help the patient because you don't have enough information? Emergency medicine deals with a lot of cases where there is a vacuum of information.



Ok..... So the only way you can gather information is from relatives?  What about vitals?  what about a trauma assessment?  What about the PTs surroundings (meds, food, alcohol)  All of which are ALWAYS available to you.


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## marineman (Dec 14, 2008)

One of the reasons that a true field practical is not used that Rid didn't mention is how do you then ensure all students taking the test are allowed the same opportunity. One person may go in the field for a day and all they do all day is pick grandma up when she falls out of bed. Another may go in the field and have 5 patients having MI's and none of them have similar symptoms what so ever. If student number 2 misses one diagnosis does he fail and does student number one pass because he didn't do anything wrong all day? You can not administer a test that doesn't afford all students the same opportunity.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

Im here asking for help and people are attacking me and saying I dont know how to be a paramedic.  If those people dont have something productive to say, they shouldnt say anything.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

marineman said:


> One of the reasons that a true field practical is not used that Rid didn't mention is how do you then ensure all students taking the test are allowed the same opportunity. One person may go in the field for a day and all they do all day is pick grandma up when she falls out of bed. Another may go in the field and have 5 patients having MI's and none of them have similar symptoms what so ever. If student number 2 misses one diagnosis does he fail and does student number one pass because he didn't do anything wrong all day? You can not administer a test that doesn't afford all students the same opportunity.



And NREMT does?  Like they claim themselves NOONE will get the same test. Which means not everyone is tested equally.

As for the field testing, that would all have to be figured out ahead of time.  It wouldnt just be one 8 hour shift of picking up grandma.  It would take longer.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> * I don't treat protocols; I treat patients*!
> 
> Hence the problem; Cookbook medicine from a shake & bake medic. Expecting life to be like it is in a book.
> 
> ...



How would you treat protocols? that makes no sense.  Protocols are just a basis to build your treatment off of.  It eliminates some of the "grey area" for paramedics giving a better idea of whats going on in the short amount of time you have to treat a PT.


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## JPINFV (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Ok..... So the only way you can gather information is from relatives?  What about vitals?  what about a trauma assessment?  What about the PTs surroundings (meds, food, alcohol)  All of which are ALWAYS available to you.




So you can look into a patient's medicine cabinet and know for sure that they are medication compliant? You can look at their fridge and know what and when they ate last? Shoot me a PM when paramedics start regularly performing ultrasounds and pregnancy tests. 




jlsparky7 said:


> Im here asking for help and people are attacking me and saying I dont know how to be a paramedic.  If those people dont have something productive to say, they shouldnt say anything.





> What are your thoughts?



Wait a minute. Just because we're not going to hold your hand and say "There there, it's all right. That big meanie test is out to get you," we shouldn't share our thoughts? This is a message board, not a hand holding board. I don't pretend to be something I'm not, but I'm not going to sit on the side line when someone decides to blame everyone but themselves for their failure. Everyone fails at something  at some point in their life. Failure doesn't define one's life, but the response to failure does. I'm definitely not going to sit by when someone pulls the "zomg, only the idiots that know that dem thar book learnin stuff seems to pass, but I shouldn't gotta learn that dem thar books stuffin."


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 14, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> *Failure doesn't define one's life, but the response to failure does.*



That point bears repeating.


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## Flight-LP (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> How would you treat protocols? that makes no sense.  Protocols are just a basis to build your treatment off of.  It eliminates some of the "grey area" for paramedics giving a better idea of whats going on in the short amount of time you have to treat a PT.



Negative ghostrider, a sound and thorough assessment is what you build your treatment off of.

You have received a lot of great advice, take a moment to internalize it. Based on your postings here, one can see sound reasoning why you were unsuccessful in passing the NR exam.

3 things that will help you through any patient encounter (and protocol isn't one of them)

1.Sound assessment.
2.Utilization of a complete and thorough critical thought process.
3.Don't overcomplicate the situation. 

Unfortunately as a new medic graduate, you only the capability of providing one of the three. The other two come with experience. Why not take this thread as an experience and learn instead of argue. You can disagree until the cows come home, but it won't change your situation. It is what it is, you are going to have to retake the test and pass to move on. Whether you do or don't is your choice.................................


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> So you can look into a patient's medicine cabinet and know for sure that they are medication compliant? You can look at their fridge and know what and when they ate last? Shoot me a PM when paramedics start regularly performing ultrasounds and pregnancy tests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was just a response to not having any information to answer the question.  No I dont expect paramedics to have any of that equipment but some information that is ALWAYS available isnt mentioned in the test.


Im not looking for someone to hold my hand.  Im not blaming anyone.  Im not looking for sympothy.  Im not saying only book smart people pass this test.  Im saying it is a poor way of testing for this profession.  For an accountant this would be a great test.  

Im just simply looking for help as to how the testing format works (other than the typical "best answer" and "adaptive test" lines that ive heard over and over.)  I dont know if any better advice exists, aparently not because im just getting hounded by people that have passed the test that assume im saying they shouldnt be paramedics.


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 14, 2008)

I've been in this field for almost 10 years, and the ONLY information I've always had available on EVERY patient is their gender and approximate age.  I'm sure others around here will support this.

Like LP said, you've been given good advice here.  What you do with it is up to you.

Do you mind if I ask what you've done up to this point to pass the test next time, besides this thread?


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> Negative ghostrider, a sound and thorough assessment is what you build your treatment off of.
> 
> You have received a lot of great advice, take a moment to internalize it. Based on your postings here, one can see sound reasoning why you were unsuccessful in passing the NR exam.
> 
> ...



They dont give sounds in 90% of the test questions

They dont give you enough info to even begin the thought process.  Let alone citical thought process.

The situation.... Heres another example of a question similar to what was on registry (not exactly).

Called to the scene of a 42yo male involved in an MVA.  Pt was driving the vehicle and was hit on the drivers side.  What are the possible internal injuries?
A. Kidney
B. Spleen
c. Stomach
d. Liver

No way of telling... I know the kidney and liver are considered solid organs and are more prone to blunt force injury.  I know the spleen can easily be lacerated, and I know the stomach would be close to the impact as well.

Now with Vitals, a trauma assessment, chief complaint (assumming pt is alert), wether or not the Pt was restrained, type of vehicle, and other readily available information that is automatic upon arrival to a scene would effect my answer.


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## daedalus (Dec 14, 2008)

That "stupid test" is the closest thing to national continuity and minimum competency assurance we have. It is flawed in ONE way. The flaw is that it should be more difficult. 

If you think the NREMT is difficult or stupid, the NCLEX (RN board exam), the USMLE (MD board exam), and other professional medical exams would cause you to faint and seize. These are the way medical professional board exams work. If you do not want to be a medical professional, than do not attempt these exams, and yes, that includes the NREMT.

Paramedicine is not about protocols. You bring down the entire profession by thinking and acting that way. That is why the more educated members of the board are not entertaining your consistent roasting of a test and and an organization that works to improve us all.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

ffemt8978 said:


> I've been in this field for almost 10 years, and the ONLY information I've always had available on EVERY patient is their gender and approximate age.  I'm sure others around here will support this.
> 
> Like LP said, you've been given good advice here.  What you do with it is up to you.
> 
> Do you mind if I ask what you've done up to this point to pass the test next time, besides this thread?



Aside from real world experience in the field.  I have my 6 Text books from my class. 
ECG interpritation book
ACLS intervention book
Bradys NREMTP review book
2 other NREMTP practice test books
Each of my txt books have a CD that I went through with scenerios and tests at the end
www.skillstat.com cardiac tests and ECG test (dynamic and static)
I made flashcards for the ACLS meds too


----------



## daedalus (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> They dont give sounds in 90% of the test questions
> 
> They dont give you enough info to even begin the thought process.  Let alone citical thought process.
> 
> ...



Your over complicating things. And you should try and re think your idea of critical thinking. Re read Flight's post and mine about the inductive reasoning behind the answer.


----------



## reaper (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> They dont give sounds in 90% of the test questions
> 
> They dont give you enough info to even begin the thought process.  Let alone citical thought process.
> 
> ...



"Sound assessment" means doing a good assessment! Proper English?

Again that question is very simple if you quit over thinking everything. Think about the anatomy of the abdomen?????


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

daedalus said:


> That "stupid test" is the closest thing to national continuity and minimum competency assurance we have. It is flawed in ONE way. The flaw is that it should be more difficult.
> 
> If you think the NREMT is difficult or stupid, the NCLEX (RN board exam), the USMLE (MD board exam), and other professional medical exams would cause you to faint and seize. These are the way medical professional board exams work. If you do not want to be a medical professional, than do not attempt these exams, and yes, that includes the NREMT.
> 
> Paramedicine is not about protocols. You bring down the entire profession by thinking and acting that way. That is why the more educated members of the board are not entertaining your consistent roasting of a test and and an organization that works to improve us all.



It is inaccurate and does not sufficiently display the ability of a person to be a paramedic.  The reason you think it needs to be harder is because there are bad paramedics.  That is because it is inaccurate is displaying the persons abilities, not that it is too easy.  This is the only format that I can recall has ever been used.  Written/Computerized testing.

I would like to get an idea of how the military is tested in BLS/ACLS I bet it doesnt rely on a written test and I bet they are more successful with real life scenarios.


----------



## ffemt8978 (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> It is inaccurate and does not sufficiently display the ability of a person to be a paramedic.  The reason you think it needs to be harder is because there are bad paramedics.  That is because it is inaccurate is displaying the persons abilities, not that it is too easy.  This is the only format that I can recall has ever been used.  Written/Computerized testing.
> 
> I would like to get an idea of how the military is tested in BLS/ACLS I bet it doesnt rely on a written test and I bet they are more successful with real life scenarios.



I thought they were using the NREMT testing also.  BLS/ACLS testing is done by an agency like the AHA or ARC, not the NREMT.  One tests CPR, the other tests EMT.  And the AHA does have a written test for BLS for HCP's...I don't teach ACLS, so I can't speak to that aspect.


----------



## JPINFV (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> I would like to get an idea of how the military is tested in BLS/ACLS I bet it doesnt rely on a written test and I bet they are more successful with real life scenarios.



I bet their patient population is vastly different than the one civilian EMS treats.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

ffemt8978 said:


> I've been in this field for almost 10 years, and the ONLY information I've always had available on EVERY patient is their gender and approximate age.  I'm sure others around here will support this.
> 
> Like LP said, you've been given good advice here.  What you do with it is up to you.
> 
> Do you mind if I ask what you've done up to this point to pass the test next time, besides this thread?



You cant look at a PT and tell if there breathing?  How often there breathing?  If it is suffiecent?  What about LOC? Vitals?

I find it hard to believe you walk on scene sometimes and those are the only 2 peices of information that you can possibly come up with.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> I bet their patient population is vastly different than the one civilian EMS treats.



The point isnt the kind of treatment.  It is the testing process.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 14, 2008)

ffemt8978 said:


> I thought they were using the NREMT testing also.  BLS/ACLS testing is done by an agency like the AHA or ARC, not the NREMT.  One tests CPR, the other tests EMT.  And the AHA does have a written test for BLS for HCP's...I don't teach ACLS, so I can't speak to that aspect.



I dont know either but I would like to find out.


----------



## JPINFV (Dec 14, 2008)

It matters on what they're testing on and to the degree that they have to train their differing levels of medical responders.


----------



## Flight-LP (Dec 14, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> It is inaccurate and does not sufficiently display the ability of a person to be a paramedic.  The reason you think it needs to be harder is because there are bad paramedics.  That is because it is inaccurate is displaying the persons abilities, not that it is too easy.  This is the only format that I can recall has ever been used.  Written/Computerized testing.
> 
> I would like to get an idea of how the military is tested in BLS/ACLS I bet it doesnt rely on a written test and I bet they are more successful with real life scenarios.



Since you asked, the military medic's are also tested by National Registry. The AHA courses are used for BLS and ACLS.

You have managed to identify one correct aspect. The NR does not display a persons ability to do anything other than retain knowledge for a practical and written exam. This is the sole purpose of a mentoring or field training program. That is when you "show 'em what you got", or don't have. But you have to pass the test first to get there......................


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> Since you asked, the military medic's are also tested by National Registry. The AHA courses are used for BLS and ACLS.
> 
> You have managed to identify one correct aspect. The NR does not display a persons ability to do anything other than retain knowledge for a practical and written exam. This is the sole purpose of a mentoring or field training program. That is when you "show 'em what you got", or don't have. But you have to pass the test first to get there......................



Then why cant military medics come back and be civilian medics?  they have to retake the class.  That doesnt make much sense to me.

The NR sure DOES NOT display someones ability to retain knowledge. 3 paramedics at the company I work for all recently passed NR and CLEARLY do not have the compitence to be BASIC emts let alone medics.

I will take this test until I pass so that is irrelevent.  What matters is being able to pass it sooner than later.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Please dont start on RN's/LPN's that needs to be a new thread.


----------



## JPINFV (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> The NR sure DOES NOT display someones ability to retain knowledge. 3 paramedics at the company I work for all recently passed NR and CLEARLY do not have the compitence to be BASIC emts let alone medics.




I'm curious. What level of education and experience do you have that allows you to judge the ability of a new paramedic?


----------



## reaper (Dec 15, 2008)

I give up! There is more excuses and arguing, then wanting to learn anything!!


----------



## ffemt8978 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> You cant look at a PT and tell if there breathing?  How often there breathing?  If it is suffiecent?  What about LOC? Vitals?
> 
> I find it hard to believe you walk on scene sometimes and those are the only 2 peices of information that you can possibly come up with.



There's a difference...earlier in the thread, you were talking about information that you felt was necessary to complete your assessment (such as medication, food, alcohol and other types related to patient history).  The information you described in this post is information I get from my assessment of the patient.

You're right, assessment information is always available if you do a proper assessment.  History information is not always available.  And you may not always get the scene information as a medic...especially if you do ALS intercepts with a BLS agency.

It comes down to critical thinking.  Once you receive the dispatch information, you should already be thinking about what could be wrong with the patient based upon the information you received.  As you get more information, you constantly revise your assessment of what may be wrong.  But based upon your knowledge of A&P, you should always have a general idea of what could be wrong with your patient.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> I'm curious. What level of education and experience do you have that allows you to judge the ability of a new paramedic?



All 3 of the paramedics i mentioned earlier were basics that I worked with on a regular basis as basics until they became paramedics.  Do you want me to give examples of how dumb they are?


----------



## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> All 3 of the paramedics i mentioned earlier were basics that I worked with on a regular basis as basics until they became paramedics.  Do you want me to give examples of how dumb they are?



Please do.


----------



## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

reaper said:


> I give up! There is more excuses and arguing, then wanting to learn anything!!



Yeah, I wrote a big response.. then deleted it and decided not to post it, it's just not worth it when everything I say will just get argued and won't be taken to heart/mind, or w.e. Not worth my time.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> So I take it you didnt have to do 3rd rides or internships to get your license?  Not an attack on you but thats how you make it sound.  You have to start somewhere.  You would have a licnesed medic right next to you to stop you from messing up.



Third rides.. yep Under a guided licensed Paramedic, remember that is for when you are in school not after you have completed it. In other words they are to guide and carefully watch and stop wrong procedures to be performed and make suggestions... because you are a student. In testing scenarios; one could not stop a procedure or make recommendations otherwise it would be considered skewed. This is an academic and procedure for credibility purposes. Also remember in liability you are covered under the school insurance and agreement of a EMS service. As far as I know, I know no license or certification examination performed upon real patients, nor would ever be considered. Even training on animals is under very careful scrutiny, with in depth procedures and usually a Veterinarian on the premises.

I agree it appears that it may not to be the best test, but it is the best way to validate one's knowledge. Consider that it is much more involved to develop the test, than just to develop test questions. I know, I am one of the many test writers for NREMT. Questions have to be created using recent and well documented references approved by the NREMT. They are not based upon anectodotal events or regional opinions. After initial development, they are reviewed and written by academic test writers for validity. If not, the test would be non-credible and worthless for a professional credibility. Alike all  other medical professional examinations (remember that is truly what we are.. medical) and other professional examinations (Law/Bar, Electricians, Engineers, etc). Not to be rude, but it is such tests and examinations that is supposed to separate the professional (white collar) from blue collar professions. 

Protocols should only be suggested guidelines, usually for legal purposes. There is no way a protocol should or could ever be developed for everything. For example; my service protocols are only about 20 pages long, yet we perform medical diagnostics and procedures not listed, as it is expected we have a common "medical knowledge and understanding of emergency medicine". In other words actions and knowledge that is up to the local medical community standards of care... AHA/ACLS, PALS, NRP, PEPP, PHTLS, etc... Alike physician and other medical practitioners (R.T., P.T., Radiographers) we should be expected to know much more than a step by step or algorithm procedures. Suggestions or guidelines? Sure but medicine, is not a cookie recipe. It takes much more in-depth education and understanding of all the multiple possibilities at one time. Alike the hypothetical question posted, one should automatically know the most reasonable and most accurate answer would be related to a gynecological emergency. Not knowing this represents that one may not be aware of most probability causative agent. 

Critical thinking skills can be increased with in-depth education and detailed and complex scenario base lab time. Such scenarios are ones that have multiple or are complex and require multiple actions. In other words multiple treatment(s) and actions should be taken and considered all at one time. In regards to protocols, there maybe three or four protocols that have to be initiated. i.e. Medical/Trauma, or respiratory depression secondary to distributive shock caused by infection. Knowing that one has to perform much more than just the ABC's and maybe very complex in treating. 

Unfortunately, many in EMS assume that our role should be limited and be kept simple. EMS if done properly is never easy and is very complex. The reason testing has to be taken very seriously and with scrutiny. 

There are many that fail tests for multiple reasons. Such reasons maybe due to poor test taking skills, reading too much into the question, test anxiety and then simply poorly educated or ill trained. There are many ways and information to increase each of those areas. 

R/r 911


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

ffemt8978 said:


> There's a difference...earlier in the thread, you were talking about information that you felt was necessary to complete your assessment (such as medication, food, alcohol and other types related to patient history).  The information you described in this post is information I get from my assessment of the patient.
> 
> You're right, assessment information is always available if you do a proper assessment.  History information is not always available.  And you may not always get the scene information as a medic...especially if you do ALS intercepts with a BLS agency.
> 
> It comes down to critical thinking.  Once you receive the dispatch information, you should already be thinking about what could be wrong with the patient based upon the information you received.  As you get more information, you constantly revise your assessment of what may be wrong.  But based upon your knowledge of A&P, you should always have a general idea of what could be wrong with your patient.



I was referring to the assessment more than the history part.  In real life, I cant think of one medic i know that has ever done a basic intercept.  I dont beleive Nr is geared towards intercepts.  Still, the first thing you do on an intercept is reassess, once again the info is available.

I do critical thinking.  When I get dispactched to a call for a fall here are some of the things im thinking....
What caused the fall? Low b/s, Loss of Balance, Stroke, MI, UTI (weakness), General weakness, stairs..... ect....
What position did the PT fall from?
How old is the PT?
C-spine precautions?


----------



## mycrofft (Dec 15, 2008)

*To pull the Wm  Buckley trick as usual...WHAT Paramedic shortage?*

They're crawling out of the woodwork. Not enough jobs for them all.

JL, go study and stop worrying about tests or gravity, neither one's worrying about you. Then go pass the test. If not, then go do something else.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

traumateam1 said:


> Please do.


Basic 1-
"we dont need to backboard this 85 year old woman with neck pain, she only fell out of bed"
Now became Medic 1-
Overdosed someone with a 14mg bolus of morphine

Basic 2-
Refused to put a Pt with COPD on a nonrebreather or bag them.  Vitals were shot.
Now is a medic 2-
Gave a PT amiodarone instead of adenosine for svt (freaking genious)

Basic 3-
Called in a choking 1 month old as a priority 2 instead of 1 because he wasnt doing chest compressions yet. (in my county P1 is immediate life threat P2 is potentially a life threat and P3 is everything else)  Big difference between a P1 and P2 around here.  P2, your waiting in the hallway for an ED bed.
Now is a Medic 3-
This was just out of cockyness but he stopped to get fuel on a P1 because he was mad at dispatch.

And these are the kind of people NR licenses.


----------



## Flight-LP (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> I do critical thinking.



It is quite apparent you don't...............

Until you accept the FACT that you are not also a Paramedic, by virtue of the fact your did not pass the exam, then you're opinion of other Paramedics performance is irrelevant. You should try redirecting your focus on successfully passing the exam, not wallowing and whining that others did. Think you are better than them? Then go pass the NR, get into a preceptor program and show them what you can do.

Until that point in time, you doing nothing more than b!tch!ng about something you cannot control. Either deal with it, or get over it. One of the two, because honestly, your continuing posts are not productive in any way, just argumentative...........................


----------



## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

If they're as dumb as you say and they passed, and you can't pass, what does that say about you?


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Third rides.. yep Under a guided licensed Paramedic, remember that is for when you are in school not after you have completed it. In other words they are to guide and carefully watch and stop wrong procedures to be performed and make suggestions... because you are a student. In testing scenarios; one could not stop a procedure or make recommendations otherwise it would be considered skewed. This is an academic and procedure for credibility purposes. Also remember in liability you are covered under the school insurance and agreement of a EMS service. As far as I know, I know no license or certification examination performed upon real patients, nor would ever be considered. Even training on animals is under very careful scrutiny, with in depth procedures and usually a Veterinarian on the premises.
> 
> I agree it appears that it may not to be the best test, but it is the best way to validate one's knowledge. Consider that it is much more involved to develop the test, than just to develop test questions. I know, I am one of the many test writers for NREMT. Questions have to be created using recent and well documented references approved by the NREMT. They are not based upon anectodotal events or regional opinions. After initial development, they are reviewed and written by academic test writers for validity. If not, the test would be non-credible and worthless for a professional credibility. Alike all  other medical professional examinations (remember that is truly what we are.. medical) and other professional examinations (Law/Bar, Electricians, Engineers, etc). Not to be rude, but it is such tests and examinations that is supposed to separate the professional (white collar) from blue collar professions.
> 
> ...



The legal liabilities are the problem.  NR is licensing the wrong people.  Why cant the credibility of the college be put online rather than having a profit corporation give the test?

EMS for the most part is following protocols.  Theres no arguing that.  Theres a reason protocols exist.  Guidlines for treatment just as you said.  

Most of the people that work in the field know NR is a joke.  It has proven time and time again to me that it is not acting in the best interest of the patient (which it should) They are doing it for some other reason.  Maybe money, maybe view of the public eye, or something else.

I have serveral friends that are AWESOME basics and can assess pt's better faster and more knowledgable than most of the medics I have worked with.  I know they have the ability to be paramedics, I have studied with all of them and done scenerios, they know the material.  It is a shame to know they would be able to help there pts that much more but because of national registry they cant.


----------



## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> If they're as dumb as you say and they passed, and you can't pass, what does that say about you?



Oh diss!!  
10


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> If they're as dumb as you say and they passed, and you can't pass, what does that say about you?



Nothing about me, thats about NR.


----------



## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 - this is enough. You take *every* response/post and argue it. If you aren't willing to take the advice, than just stop posting. Sittin here and b!+ching and complaining wont help you pass your test and get you your ticket. Seriously. Taking *every* post and arguing isn't doing anything other than annoying people. If you arent willing to take the advice that is being given to you, than stop posting. What are you gaining by complaining?


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> It is quite apparent you don't...............
> 
> Until you accept the FACT that you are not also a Paramedic, by virtue of the fact your did not pass the exam, then you're opinion of other Paramedics performance is irrelevant. You should try redirecting your focus on successfully passing the exam, not wallowing and whining that others did. Think you are better than them? Then go pass the NR, get into a preceptor program and show them what you can do.
> 
> Until that point in time, you doing nothing more than b!tch!ng about something you cannot control. Either deal with it, or get over it. One of the two, because honestly, your continuing posts are not productive in any way, just argumentative...........................



That doesnt make any sense.  Just because someone has passed a unfair test doesnt mean they are prepaired to be a paramedic.

The reason I made this post what for help on the testing format and clues to look for.  Everyone keeps attacking me so I am telling them why I feel I have been unsuccessfull in passing.  

As I said earlier, im venting.  Which is pretty much the same as b1tching, dont like it, dont read it.

If you have something helpfull to say I would be happy to read it.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

traumateam1 said:


> jlsparky7 - this is enough. You take *every* response/post and argue it. If you aren't willing to take the advice, than just stop posting. Sittin here and b!+ching and complaining wont help you pass your test and get you your ticket. Seriously. Taking *every* post and arguing isn't doing anything other than annoying people. If you arent willing to take the advice that is being given to you, than stop posting. What are you gaining by complaining?



The only advice I have gotten so far is "see through the question" kind of comments.  That isnt helping.


----------



## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> That doesnt make any sense.  Just because someone has passed a unfair test doesnt mean they are prepaired to be a paramedic.
> 
> The reason I made this post what for help on the testing format and clues to look for.  Everyone keeps attacking me so I am telling them why I feel I have been unsuccessfull in passing.
> 
> ...



Hit the books. Read them, know your stuff. Prepair for the exam the night before. Go into the exam with a positive, self confident attitude. *Don't* over think the questions. Those questions you posted before aren't trick questions, they are basic 'do you know your stuff' questions. Take your time, have a good breakfast before the test.

It's up to *you* whether you pass or not. Good luck!


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

traumateam1 said:


> Hit the books. Read them, know your stuff. Prepair for the exam the night before. Go into the exam with a positive, self confident attitude. *Don't* over think the questions. Those questions you posted before aren't trick questions, they are basic 'do you know your stuff' questions. Take your time, have a good breakfast before the test.
> 
> It's up to *you* whether you pass or not. Good luck!



Ive hit all the books as I mentioned in my first post.  Cover to cover 3 times each.

I always prepare the night before.

Its hard to be positive knowing theres dumber people that pass on the first try.  However I still try to have a positive attitude.

I tried the "dont overthink the question" tecnique the first time I took the test.  Read the question and answers once and pick the best answer.  The second time I took it I tried going with the most basic answer if there was one.

I usually schedule afternoon tests so I have time to wake up and relax.

Anything else?  Ive tried everything you mentioned.


----------



## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Ive hit all the books as I mentioned in my first post.  Cover to cover 3 times each.
> 
> I always prepare the night before.
> 
> ...



Maybe you have to accept the fact that being a medic might not be right for you. Not everyone is cut out to be a medic, and if you can't pass the test you may be one of them.


----------



## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Ive hit all the books as I mentioned in my first post.  Cover to cover 3 times each.
> 
> I always prepare the night before.
> 
> ...



I wish. I don't have anything else for you. I'm not sure why you are having so many problems with this test.

Hopefully the next time around you will have better luck. Good luck!


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Maybe you have to accept the fact that being a medic might not be right for you. Not everyone is cut out to be a medic, and if you can't pass the test you may be one of them.



That is not an acceptable way out.  Being a firemedic is the perfect job for me, as well as serveral other people in the same boat as me.  When I do pass ill have to see about doing something to change the testing system.


----------



## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> That is not an acceptable way out.  Being a firemedic is the perfect job for me, as well as serveral other people in the same boat as me.  When I do pass ill have to see about doing something to change the testing system.



The thing is, you have taken the test how many times? And you still can't pass it? Perhaps that means you aren't paramedic, firemedic, whatever you would like to be, material. It's nice to have dreams, but life isn't a Hallmark special. Perhaps you just aren't cut out to be a paramedic. Once you pass, if you pass, I doubt you will be able to change the testing system, as more people have no problem with it than people who do have problems with it. It sucks, but maybe you should reevaluate your stance that the reason you can't pass is the test, and not you.


----------



## Flight-LP (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> If you have something helpfull to say I would be happy to read it.



o.k. how about learning how to spell.......................

I too am through, you are so far in denial and so completely obstinate that nothing we offer you will be listened to. So please enjoy the thought of knowing that while you may despise them and their perceived lack of competence; they are still the ones who passed and are practicing as Paramedics. Maybe some day you'll grow up and learn how to learn from others.

But I have my doubts..............

Good Luck!


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> The thing is, you have taken the test how many times? And you still can't pass it? Perhaps that means you aren't paramedic, firemedic, whatever you would like to be, material. It's nice to have dreams, but life isn't a Hallmark special. Perhaps you just aren't cut out to be a paramedic. Once you pass, if you pass, I doubt you will be able to change the testing system, as more people have no problem with it than people who do have problems with it. It sucks, but maybe you should reevaluate your stance that the reason you can't pass is the test, and not you.



I have taken the test twice.  How many times have you taken it?

Like I said before, being a paramedic is my job.  Its what I want to do and what I will do.

It is a failed system.  Someone needs to do something about it.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> o.k. how about learning how to spell.......................
> 
> I too am through, you are so far in denial and so completely obstinate that nothing we offer you will be listened to. So please enjoy the thought of knowing that while you may despise them and their perceived lack of competence; they are still the ones who passed and are practicing as Paramedics. Maybe some day you'll grow up and learn how to learn from others.
> 
> ...



Another worthless post.

Denial of what?
I have asked for help several times and received helpful information that I have already applied.


----------



## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> I have taken the test twice.  How many times have you taken it?
> 
> Like I said before, being a paramedic is my job.  Its what I want to do and what I will do.
> 
> It is a failed system.  Someone needs to do something about it.



Still in school, but I guarentee you I'll pass the first time, just like I passed the basic exam the first time.


----------



## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Another worthless post.
> 
> Denial of what?
> I have asked for help several times and received helpful information that I have already applied.



You know, from someone asking for help, from people who have been REALLY nice to you, you have a really bad attitude about it.


----------



## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Still in school, but I guarentee you I'll pass the first time, just like I passed the basic exam the first time.



I passed my basic written the first time too.  I was actually the first person done in my class.  Took about 20 minutes.

We will see if you pass medic NR your first time.  If you pass the class of course.


----------



## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> I passed my basic written the first time too.  I was actually the first person done in my class.  Took about 20 minutes.
> 
> We will see if you pass medic NR your first time.  If you pass the class of course.



Of course I'll pass the class. Question is, will I have my license before you? At this rate, probably!


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> You know, from someone asking for help, from people who have been REALLY nice to you, you have a really bad attitude about it.



If you read the title, this isnt about help.  Although help is appreciated it is about how NREMT is a joke.

It isnt a bad attitude towards them, its a bad attitude towards the test.  Of course the guy that is posting here that helps write the test doesnt like the idea of someone thinking its a joke.

The other guy kinda just seems cocky and wants to continue arguing with me about passing rather than about the test in general.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Of course I'll pass the class. Question is, will I have my license before you? At this rate, probably!



You also might end up like the 3 people I gave examples of earlier.  When I pass I know ill be helping people and not hurting them.

As I mentioned earlier I passed with a 92%

I dont have a false signature either....


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## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> If you read the title, this isnt about help.  Although help is appreciated it is about how NREMT is a joke.
> 
> It isnt a bad attitude towards them, its a bad attitude towards the test.  Of course the guy that is posting here that helps write the test doesnt like the idea of someone thinking its a joke.
> 
> The other guy kinda just seems cocky and wants to continue arguing with me about passing rather than about the test in general.



Than SHUT UP! Seriously! This is getting freaking annoying!! You aren't taking any advice! You are complaining about everything that is posted!! If you don't like what we are saying than log off this site and continue on with life!!

Your now insulting other members! Do you have any idea how friggen stupid you are being???? GO RE READ YOUR BASIC TEXT BECAUSE THIS IS ALL BASIC STUFF!


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## marineman (Dec 15, 2008)




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## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

marineman said:


>



Omg where did you find that!? I want a smilie like that!!


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## daedalus (Dec 15, 2008)

AMAZING! In a single night you have managed to turn all of the best resources we have on this forum against you! You want help and advice? Not anymore. If you had listened to Flight, Rid, others, you may have learned something.

I hate to say this. And if it feels good saying it, its probably wrong, but yet another reason being a paramedic to get into Fire is such a downer for the rest of us. Thanks.


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## marineman (Dec 15, 2008)

I did a google search for popcorn smiley. If you right click the picture and save the location you just post it in the {img} tags and you're off to the races


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## daedalus (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Omg where did you find that!? I want a smilie like that!!



x 10000000


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## EMTinNEPA (Dec 15, 2008)

There are plenty of big, red, shiny firetrucks across the country.  If you don't like EMS, then go be a hose-head for a bucket brigade that doesn't require you to be a medic.  Plain and simple.  Shut up, stop whining, and get on with your life.  Stop wasting our bandwidth.


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## jlsparky7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Well I guess theres not much help here anyways.


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## EMTinNEPA (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Well I guess theres not much help here anyways.



How can we help you if you already know everything?


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## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Well I guess theres not much help here anyways.



lmao!! There is LOTS of help here, but you are being a friggen stubborn ....person that isn't willing to accept any of it!!! You just keep arguing everything that is said!! GO re read that last 10 pages!! There has been TONS of help!!!!!!!!


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## JPINFV (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Well I guess theres not much help here anyways.



Try firehouse.com


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## LucidResq (Dec 15, 2008)

Well Mr. Sparky, I think it's a conspiracy. Really, I do. The National Registry is conniving against you and you alone because you are just too awesome, and they fear that with an EMT-P after your name, you would foil their evil plot to take over the world. 

It's really the only explanation for why an all-knowing genius like you cannot pass the NREMT-P while lesser humans pass all the time. I mean, you're doing humanity a favor by trying to obtain your paramedic - you could be a ROCKET SURGEON with your brains. 

They're out to get you. We're all out to get you. Put on your foil hat. It's not because you do not have the knowledge required to pass the test. It's because they're plotting against you.


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## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

I tried to get a smiley like the popcorn one, but it is epic fail!


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## marineman (Dec 15, 2008)

http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

copy that, then click the box on top that has the yellow background and the mountains in it and paste that link in the box that pops up.

edit: that won't work you have to get the whole link not with the ... in it. If you click on it and go to the page though then copy that.


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## JPINFV (Dec 15, 2008)

Sasha said:


> I tried to get a smiley like the popcorn one, but it is epic fail!



This is past the point of smiles.


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## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

marineman said:


> http://www.improvresourcecenter.com/mb/images/smilies/popcorn.gif
> 
> copy that, then click the box on top that has the yellow background and the mountains in it and paste that link in the box that pops up.


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## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)




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## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)




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## daedalus (Dec 15, 2008)




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## marineman (Dec 15, 2008)

disregard.


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## daedalus (Dec 15, 2008)

marineman said:


> disregard.


Fixed. B)

Oh man


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## Sapphyre (Dec 15, 2008)




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## exodus (Dec 15, 2008)

Sapphyre said:


>



That's like a.. a... FaceLaptop!


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## EMTinNEPA (Dec 15, 2008)




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## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

exodus said:


> That's like a.. a... FaceLaptop!



Facetop!


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## daedalus (Dec 15, 2008)

Oh boy its hard to resist.

I think its time to call for closure.
IBTL


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## traumateam1 (Dec 15, 2008)

IBTL
10 char


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## EMTinNEPA (Dec 15, 2008)

Sapphyre said:


>








IBTL

And that about sums it up.


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## tydek07 (Dec 15, 2008)

this thread got a little side tracked, eh


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## phabib (Dec 15, 2008)

Alright, I feel like throwing my 2 cents in.

I'm just an EMT basic but I found this pattern. If it differs from what others have seen, feel free to correct me. The tests in class were straightforward and fact based. You could technically get by with just memorizing. Now the NREMT was a much more difficult test. I found myself sitting and thinking about the questions making sure I had the best answer. 

Like many others have said, the medical field isn't black and white. I found the test to be a pretty reasonable simulation of that.


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## Sapphyre (Dec 15, 2008)

Phabib, 
How the tests were in school, depends on your school.  My school, the tests were written much like the NREMT was written.  And, like for NREMT, you couldn't get by just by memorizing....


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## rmellish (Dec 15, 2008)

jlsparky7 said:


> Another thing.  Why have a "set in stone" answer test with a "grey area" field your going into?



Wait, didn't you just say that Paramedic wasn't about critical thinking and more about applying protocols? 



jlsparky7 said:


> Most of being a paramedic isny critical thinking... Its applying protocols.



Yep, looks like you did. So why contradict yourself and add a gray area to what you described before as a black and white situation. You sir, have just contradicted yourself.

Like it or not, this is a standard process everyone who wishes to be certified by the National Registry goes through. There's obvious shortcomings to any test or exam, but it is also a crucial test of one's familiarity with the curriculum, and ability to apply it to hypothetical situations.


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## Robby1974 (Dec 15, 2008)

*Bwhaha*



Sasha said:


> Omg where did you find that!? I want a smilie like that!!



So im reading the posts and thinking to myself...this is like a really good sitcom (ina sad kinda way) then I see the popcorn smiley and BUST out laffin. I swear I laughed for a full minute. HACKIN FUNNY! :lol:

Anyway, having recently taken my NREMT-B and then followed up with Intermediate class and NREMT-I test I too noticed a difference between class and  the NREMT CBT. There was more "book learning" in class whereas the NREMT tested competancy. Both times I tested (once for basic and once for Intermediate) I felt like I failed the test, felt like I was just guessing at every answer. After I had taken the Intermediate I was convinced that I was going to have to retest, convinced I failed. So I did a little reasearch into the NREMT test and found that they actually expect most people to only get about half the questions right. However, while you are testing, the test will get harder or easier depending on your answers. I studied before my tests, but not a lot. I was confident that I would pass. I didn't spend a lot of time on each question. I chose the best answer and moved on. This is why I think I passed each time. I didn't make it complicated. I didn't stress over each individual answer. Most of all I just relaxed and said OK I know the material "let's do this sh** and get it over with. 

Here's the thing. This forum can be a bit "straight forward" at times. EMS is not a group of professionals that will hold your hand, and pat your hand, and say "It will be OK hunny bunny". I have had a post deleted before because I was a bit too "straight forward" (OOPS). Take the information for what it's worth. We don't know you. We can't come to your house and speak with you and judge why you havn't been sucessful on your NREMT-P. Take the advice or don't. We are all just givin our 2 cents (or .5 cents) (or 2 dollars)
Take it for what it's worth. At the end of the day you still gotta pass that Hackin test. Good luck, sounds like you're gonna need it.


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## Sasha (Dec 15, 2008)

Robby1974 said:


> So im reading the posts and thinking to myself...this is like a really good sitcom (ina sad kinda way) then I see the popcorn smiley and BUST out laffin. I swear I laughed for a full minute. HACKIN FUNNY! :lol:
> 
> Anyway, having recently taken my NREMT-B and then followed up with Intermediate class and NREMT-I test I too noticed a difference between class and  the NREMT CBT. There was more "book learning" in class whereas the NREMT tested competancy. Both times I tested (once for basic and once for Intermediate) I felt like I failed the test, felt like I was just guessing at every answer. After I had taken the Intermediate I was convinced that I was going to have to retest, convinced I failed. So I did a little reasearch into the NREMT test and found that they actually expect most people to only get about half the questions right. However, while you are testing, the test will get harder or easier depending on your answers. I studied before my tests, but not a lot. I was confident that I would pass. I didn't spend a lot of time on each question. I chose the best answer and moved on. This is why I think I passed each time. I didn't make it complicated. I didn't stress over each individual answer. Most of all I just relaxed and said OK I know the material "let's do this sh** and get it over with.
> 
> ...



I can't afford to give 2 cents. I'm an EMT after all. But I will loan out my 2 cents.


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## rmellish (Dec 15, 2008)

LucidResq said:


> Well Mr. Sparky, I think it's a conspiracy. Really, I do. The National Registry is conniving against you and you alone because you are just too awesome, and they fear that with an EMT-P after your name, you would foil their evil plot to take over the world.
> 
> It's really the only explanation for why an all-knowing genius like you cannot pass the NREMT-P while lesser humans pass all the time. I mean, you're doing humanity a favor by trying to obtain your paramedic - you could be a ROCKET SURGEON with your brains.
> 
> They're out to get you. We're all out to get you. Put on your foil hat. It's not because you do not have the knowledge required to pass the test. It's because they're plotting against you.



10/10 Awesome post...


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## Robby1974 (Dec 15, 2008)

*So true*

"I can't afford to give 2 cents. I'm an EMT after all. But I will loan out my 2 cents."

I can't even afford to loan my 2 cents. Student loans after all. B)


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## reaper (Dec 15, 2008)

Robby,

Love the signature!


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## Robby1974 (Dec 15, 2008)

*Signature*



reaper said:


> Robby,
> 
> Love the signature!




Thanks Reap! I thought long and hard about what I should put. If we can't laugh at ourselves what good are we?


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## Arkymedic (Dec 15, 2008)

Robby I was at home watching the news last week and seen this story http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/ap_on_re_us/calling_in_gay and immediately thought about your signature. I could not stop laughing for about 5 minutes, and when my wife asked me why I told her about it. She thought I was retarded, but I had a good laugh so thank you.



Robby1974 said:


> Thanks Reap! I thought long and hard about what I should put. If we can't laugh at ourselves what good are we?


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Dec 15, 2008)

To the OP:

Here's my view of the NREMT -- It is a joke.  I passed the NREMT-B in about 20 minutes, but I didn't know enough, and I'm still a rookie and still learning as I bet I will be years from now.  The problem is it is the best that they can do, they can test minimum knowledge.  If you cannot pass the NREMT, you SHOULD NOT be an EMT.  But if you can, it doesn't mean you will be a good or even competent EMT.

The alternative however, is posing an exam such as the USMLE (United States Medical Licensing Examination) which is required for licesnure of all MDs and some DOs.

Unfortuatnely not all EMT-B/I/P have that kind of time and money for an exam such as that (it is a 4 part exam that takes years to complete, Step1 in MED2, Step2 CK in MED4, Step2 CS in MED4 and Step 3 in PGY1 (usually).

The first 3 steps (1, 2CS, 2CK) last a day each (just over 8 hours) while step 3 lasts 2 days.  The cost for taking the test for 2CS alone is about $1200 not counting lodging, travel and food (only offered in 5 cities).

It is a comprehensive exam, but by the time you are done, you have spent years on it and thousands of dollars


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## ffemt8978 (Dec 15, 2008)

And I think that's enough of this thread.


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