# Call 911 for Safe Haven for new borns



## cruiseforever (Aug 2, 2012)

Minnesota just revised it's Safe Haven Law and now wants people to call 911 with in seven days of birth, if they want to give up the baby.  As I under stand the law it will be for ambulance only.  No PD as there is to be no questions asked.

Has anyone had a call or experince in picking up a new born that it's family did not want?


----------



## MedicBender (Aug 2, 2012)

When I was with the FD in MD we had a mother show up to our station one night with her 3 kids. An 11 year old, a 7 year old, and a 5 year old. She stated she was leaving them with us under the safe haven law. 

Due to the ages of the children we were unsure how to handle the situation. My Lt. contacted our battalion chief, who told us to contact PD and that this was a PD issue. PD stated this was strictly a FD issue. We attempted to contact social services, but were unsuccessful. Our Battalion chief wanted us to at least get a name of the woman. 

While my Lt handled that side of it I spoke with the kids who stated that they were unsure why they were being left with us. We made sure they were fed and put some cartoons on for them. The eldest gave me the name of their mother and number of a relative who I attempted to contact. 

The mother suddenly had a change of mind, took the children, and left. We got the license plate and wrote a detailed incident report about it. Social services got back to us and we relayed all the info we had. 

Looking back it could have been handled better, but this was pretty foreign to everyone involved.


----------



## DesertMedic66 (Aug 2, 2012)

Our schools, fire stations, PD, and ambulance companies are all "safe surrender" locations. Some of our ambulances have the "safe surrender" decal on the side. Never had it happening and never met someone who it happened to.


----------



## JPINFV (Aug 2, 2012)

MedicBender said:


> When I was with the FD in MD we had a mother show up to our station one night with her 3 kids. An 11 year old, a 7 year old, and a 5 year old. She stated she was leaving them with us under the safe haven law.
> 
> Due to the ages of the children we were unsure how to handle the situation. My Lt. contacted our battalion chief, who told us to contact PD and that this was a PD issue. PD stated this was strictly a FD issue. We attempted to contact social services, but were unsuccessful. Our Battalion chief wanted us to at least get a name of the woman.
> 
> ...



The idea for Safe Haven laws is to allow mothers to get rid of unwanted newborns in a safe manner (i.e. no more prom night dumpster babies). The problem with that case is that all 3 of those kids are much much too old. 

Here's the Safe Surrender protocol for one of the local counties.

http://www.ochealthinfo.com/docs/medical/ems/P&P/330.25.pdf


----------



## MedicBender (Aug 2, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> The idea for Safe Haven laws is to allow mothers to get rid of unwanted newborns in a safe manner (i.e. no more prom night dumpster babies). The problem with that case is that all 3 of those kids are much much too old.



While I agree, we were hesitant to send the kids back to a potentially abusive household. 

There were a few states a while back that had no age limit, however they've since been changed.


----------



## bigbaldguy (Aug 2, 2012)

MedicBender said:


> While I agree, we were hesitant to send the kids back to a potentially abusive household.
> 
> There were a few states a while back that had no age limit, however they've since been changed.



I think you were right to be hesitant. I think the safe haven law should be extended to older children. It doesnt matter if the parent giving up a child has a valid reason or not. That child (or children in ths case) needs to be out of that parents care until the situation can be evaluated. This law is not about the parent it is about making sure the child is safe. 

Training in this area is very poor. I think that training regarding vulnerable populations and how we as providers can better protect them should be improved across the board.

http://www.nationalsafehavenalliance.org/states/


----------



## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 2, 2012)

We have training on the laws in our state at one of our station.  Ohio also has a form for parents to fill out if desired (anonymously).  It has never happened, but we know what to expect if it does happen.  In Ohio I don't think parents can call 911 but rather must take the child to a hospital, police station, or manned fire station.

If we had older children come in, we would give them an evaluation and barring any abnormal evaluation, they would be turned over to the custody of the police.  I can't imagine the police wouldn't come, but if they were tied up on a big crime or something we can just transport to the hospital anyways.


----------



## Handsome Robb (Aug 2, 2012)

I don't have a whole lot of experience with it. I think you guys did fine, I'm surprised PD wouldn't get involved with kids of those ages. 

In Nevada the Safe Haven law is only for babies 30 days old our younger, past that I'm not sure what or who's jurisdiction it would fall under.


----------



## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 2, 2012)

i feel like abandoning children is a form of neglect--a criminal violation and therefore the police have jurisdiction?


----------



## Handsome Robb (Aug 2, 2012)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> i feel like abandoning children is a form of neglect--a criminal violation and therefore the police have jurisdiction?



In this scenario or in general?

The whole point of Safe Haven is to reduce the number of "dumpster babies".


----------



## bigbaldguy (Aug 2, 2012)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> i feel like abandoning children is a form of neglect--a criminal violation and therefore the police have jurisdiction?



I see where you're coming from but the idea behind the safe haven project is more one of mitigation than prevention. It takes the possibility of punishment out of the equation so that parents are less likely to dump their children in dangerous places. Like rob says it's better they give the kid to a firefighter or ER staff then leave them in a dumpster or on the side of the road as has happened.


----------



## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 2, 2012)

NVRob said:


> In this scenario or in general?
> 
> The whole point of Safe Haven is to reduce the number of "dumpster babies".



I'm sorry guys, i should have been more clear.  I was referring to the OP's situation.  I agree with the safe haven laws actually. And I understand not getting the police involved in that, but for an 11 year old, i feel that the cops should have gotten involved in that instance!


----------



## Handsome Robb (Aug 3, 2012)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> I'm sorry guys, i should have been more clear.  I was referring to the OP's situation.  I agree with the safe haven laws actually. And I understand not getting the police involved in that, but for an 11 year old, i feel that the cops should have gotten involved in that instance!



I 100% agree, sorry didn't mean to come off condescending in my post. I figured that's what you were getting at but I wasn't sure. At that age i absolutely think PD needs to be involved along with Social Services. There's something going on, for a mother to decide to "dump" her three kids at those ages. In the OP's situation I'm very surprised PD tried to pawn it off on the FD, granted I don't know the laws in that state.


----------



## bigbaldguy (Aug 3, 2012)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> I'm sorry guys, i should have been more clear.  I was referring to the OP's situation.  I agree with the safe haven laws actually. And I understand not getting the police involved in that, but for an 11 year old, i feel that the cops should have gotten involved in that instance!





NVRob said:


> I 100% agree, sorry didn't mean to come off condescending in my post. I figured that's what you were getting at but I wasn't sure. At that age i absolutely think PD needs to be involved along with Social Services. There's something going on, for a mother to decide to "dump" her three kids at those ages. In the OP's situation I'm very surprised PD tried to pawn it off on the FD, granted I don't know the laws in that state.



I'd probably lean toward letting the lady drop the kids off and then sort it out afterwards. I just wouldn't feel comfortable letting her take them back.


----------



## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 3, 2012)

Oh yeah, I'd take the kids, then call up dispatch and have a cruiser come get them!  But as long as nothing medical is wrong with them, it's really not my jurisdiction.  The exception being newborns since the law specifically says they are our jurisdiction with Save Haven.


----------



## Handsome Robb (Aug 3, 2012)

bigbaldguy said:


> I'd probably lean toward letting the lady drop the kids off and then sort it out afterwards. I just wouldn't feel comfortable letting her take them back.



Probably a good way to handle it. If she's in a car take note of the make, model, color and license plate to pass on to PD. I know it's not my job but with an 11 year old involved you probably can bet that the appropriate authorities will be able to get the name and address of the mother to follow up provided she doesn't disappear into the streets. 

I'm all for adoption but I have a pretty strong opinion on it since it directly relates to me although in a much different context. If mom doesn't feel capable of providing the proper care to her children that they require and deserve there's no reason she shouldn't be able to forfeit her rights as a mother. With that said there are proper channels that she needs to go through which do not include dropping her kids off at the local fire station although it's better than the alternatives...

Like you said, the Safe Haven program and laws are in place to allow mothers to forfeit their baby without fear of prosecution thus reducing the amount of infant deaths secondary to abandonment. However, the kids in this scenario don't fit into the parameters for the program in most if not all states. I'm not sure about laws or programs that deal with situations such as the one outlined in this thread.


----------



## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 3, 2012)

Now wasn't there one state that for a period of time defined "child" under the law to be anyone under 18?  I wonder if the mother assumed this still applied/applied in her state?


----------



## grump (Aug 13, 2012)

You can leave your baby, up to 28 days old, with an administrative, managerial or security personnel at any hospital in Pennsylvania. Grump


----------

