# Straight to Paramedic from EMT?



## Symbolic (Oct 5, 2010)

I know there are conflicting opinions on the subject, but I have the time, money and resources to consider jumping straight into a medic program In the spring. I'm currently half way through my EMT class. Academically, It hasn't been too much of a challenge. I have been averaging high 90's on my tests and grasp the skills taught In class very easily. With that said, the Medic program does not require previous EMT experience, but experience is factored in to the decision making process. College credit can be substituted for field experience, which will help out immensely since I have over 60 credits. Like most programs, there is an oral board, entry test, and they also factor in experience as well.

I guess my question is: Would it be advisable to jump straight in? I know for a fact If I was accepted I would likely be one of the few who lacked field experience, which might make for a struggle later In the class. Anyone On the boards go straight to medic from EMT?


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## terrible one (Oct 5, 2010)

Where's the beating a dead horse button? 
This has been discussed at great length on this forum, try a search to help make your decision.


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## Shishkabob (Oct 5, 2010)

The only correct answer to this is: Would you feel comfortable doing it?

If yes, than apply and leave it in the hands of the selection committee.  If no, then get as much experience as you think you need, be it 6 months, a year or whatever.


I personally jumped straight in, was at the top of my medic class, and would like to think I'm doing ok now.  But don't do it if you would not feel comfortable.



Remember, you'll get plenty of clinical and internship time in school to help you feel more comfortable as well.


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## Symbolic (Oct 5, 2010)

Linuss said:


> The only correct answer to this is: Would you feel comfortable doing it?
> 
> If yes, than apply and leave it in the hands of the selection committee.  If no, then get as much experience as you think you need, be it 6 months, a year or whatever.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the words of wisdom. It's definitely something I'm going to attempt to take on. The selection process Is pretty much out of my hands anyway, so we'll see how it goes!


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## medic417 (Oct 5, 2010)

You can perfect your basic skills once educated.  So the answer is don't delay start today.


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## TransportJockey (Oct 5, 2010)

I'd apply for it and try to become a medic ASAP. No point for a lot of people staying at lower levels


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## Veneficus (Oct 5, 2010)

*I object to this thread*

Asked and answered.


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## fast65 (Oct 5, 2010)

Like Linuss said, as long as you feel comfortable doing it, then go for it. I jumped straight from basic to medic and I'm not having any problems so far.


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## MusicMedic (Oct 5, 2010)

i would, but alot of the Paramedic programs require 6 months to a year of EXP to get into the program (which is pretty rediculous) 

but then agian, it would be easier to get into Med School than some of the Medic programs in So Cal

have you taken A&P yet?


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## sir.shocksalot (Oct 5, 2010)

My personal view/experience is to get some experience as an EMT-B before going to Medic school. EMT school doesn't give you enough time to get a feel of if you will like the profession, or find if you are able to talk to patients or deal with the stress of the job. Being a Paramedic isn't for everyone, the pay sucks, the hours suck, the job is stressful and if you don't get a feel for what it is like before you go be a Medic you might find yourself in the group of people who can't do the job after you have blown a lot of money on getting your Medic. As for how much experience you need is up to you, I spent 2.5 years as a basic simply because I did all my pre-reqs for my AAS degree before I went to Medic school, I think 6 months is plenty of time to have the novelty of the job wear off enough to judge whether you can do this for any length of time.
Also get a feel for Paramedics in the area and see how they feel about not doing time as a basic and going to Medic school, I know in these parts (CO) you will not find a decent job after you graduate if you don't have some time as a basic on your resume.


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## FDNYRescueMedic (Oct 5, 2010)

I say work BLS for at least a year in a busy 911 system before going to medic school. In my system a lot of the new medics coming out really lack good clinical knowledge and BLS skills. For example they will grab the monitor before getting a blood pressure or go for the pulse ox before lung sounds. A really good EMT does not have the tools medics have so these guys and gals really need to rely on assessment skills. I'm kind of old school so I do not mean to offend anyone who jumps straight to medic. BLS before ALS.


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## Shishkabob (Oct 5, 2010)

I do what needs to be done based off my education and clinical judgment.  I don't relegate what I do to "EMT level before Paramedic level".


Especially if I have an EMT partner who is able to get that BP for me while I pop the patient on an EKG, or do the "BLS" stuff whilst I go further in to what needs to be done.


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## medic417 (Oct 5, 2010)

There is no BLS or ALS there is only patient care.  Who will give best patient care?  Obviously the one with the most education.  So even as poorly educated as Paramedics are they have much more education.  There is nothing to be gained waiting.


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## gicts (Oct 5, 2010)

terrible one said:


> Where's the beating a dead horse button?
> This has been discussed at great length on this forum, try a search to help make your decision.



Right HERE is the appropriate link if he doesn't want to search.


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## FDNYRescueMedic (Oct 5, 2010)

Every system is different and we can only relate to where we work. In the NYC Fire Dept. you have to be an EMT for at least a year in a 911 system before being considered for medic school. That's if the Fire Dept. pays for it and you get your medic through the academy. We are a two medic system so if your partner is the tech on that day he also does BLS and vise versa. This is where good BLS skills pay off and where I see all to often medics fail miserably. I know in Boston EMS even if you are a medic you have to work on a BLS unit first. We can go back and forth on this subject but it's all a matter of opinion and some will say go straight for the medic cert and others will say you have to pay your dues and work BLS first.


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## Symbolic (Oct 5, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> i would, but alot of the Paramedic programs require 6 months to a year of EXP to get into the program (which is pretty rediculous)
> 
> but then agian, it would be easier to get into Med School than some of the Medic programs in So Cal
> 
> have you taken A&P yet?



Yeah, I find it odd that some states require so many pre-reqs for the same job title. Of course we are talking about peoples well being, but If you are able to pay the tuition and perform the job title up to standards, then you should be able to get into a program without all the other college core classes. I haven't taken A&P yet, might consider If I don't make It into the class next semester.



sir.shocksalot said:


> My personal view/experience is to get some experience as an EMT-B before going to Medic school. EMT school doesn't give you enough time to get a feel of if you will like the profession, or find if you are able to talk to patients or deal with the stress of the job. Being a Paramedic isn't for everyone, the pay sucks, the hours suck, the job is stressful and if you don't get a feel for what it is like before you go be a Medic you might find yourself in the group of people who can't do the job after you have blown a lot of money on getting your Medic. As for how much experience you need is up to you, I spent 2.5 years as a basic simply because I did all my pre-reqs for my AAS degree before I went to Medic school, I think 6 months is plenty of time to have the novelty of the job wear off enough to judge whether you can do this for any length of time.
> Also get a feel for Paramedics in the area and see how they feel about not doing time as a basic and going to Medic school, I know in these parts (CO) you will not find a decent job after you graduate if you don't have some time as a basic on your resume.



Thanks for the words of advice. I'm fortunate to have someone around like my dad, who was a medic for the fire-department for 13 or so years before moving up the ranks. He definitely thinks I should reconsider, not because It was a terrible job, just the fact that the years of running calls, lifiting, and sleep deprivation/stress eventually hit you hard later in life. Recommends I continue with my degree and get on with a F.D and have them put you through and pay for medic school when/If the time comes.


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## EMT-IT753 (Oct 5, 2010)

I must be one of the crazy ones out there that love everything about the medic lifestyle.
I love the hours.
The pay is not bad.
The stress is tolerable.
I am in medic school now and work for an ALS service as an EMT-Intermediate Technician.
I have worked in far less desirable fields for less pay and hated going to work.
I dont care if I have to work 12, 24, or 36 hour shifts. I take every available shift I can take and am thankful I have that opportunity.
I cant wait until the day I am able to wear the gold patch on my arm and will do so with pride.


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## CAO (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm doing it right now.

Passed my practicals in May.  Got my license in June.  Had my interview in July.  Started in August.

I won't say it was the right decision or wrong decision; it's really too early for me to tell.

One conversation with my instructor during a break pretty much sums it up.  He had been jokingly calling me "Rain Man" in class since I was able to answer most of the questions he threw out during the lecture and how I could write the Henderson–Hasselbalch equation and various other things from memory while the rest of the class was looking them up.

He asked me "No, seriously...do you have a photographic memory?"

I said "No, sir.  I just don't have the experience anybody else here has, so I'm working my butt off for it."

It can be done, as Linuss has told you, but it won't be as easy.  It shouldn't be.


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## TransportJockey (Oct 5, 2010)

Symbolic said:


> Yeah, I find it odd that some states require so many pre-reqs for the same job title. Of course we are talking about peoples well being, but If you are able to pay the tuition and perform the job title up to standards, then you should be able to get into a program without all the other college core classes. I haven't taken A&P yet, might consider If I don't make It into the class next semester.



I'm sorry, but people like you are what's wrong with EMS. Why shouldn't we have to have the same background classes as degree seeking students? Why is making A&P 1 & 2 w/ labs a requirement a bad idea? The more knowledge and education we have (not jsut training, but real education) the better off we are. Hell, a monkey could do most of the medic skills if you train them enough. 
We need to stop looking at a medic and saying 'oh they're a medic cause they can do that', or looking at education in hours instead of years if we ever want any respect from other healthcare professions

Actually... I'm not sorry for saying it, never mind


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## Shishkabob (Oct 5, 2010)

Gah, I'm tired of people complainiing that it's "looked at by hours instead of years".



You can look at anything in a multitude of ways.  

What if I start labeling the amount of hours nurses spend in school?  We all still know what that equates to.

What if I start stating my height in quarters of an inch instead of feet / inches?  Or millimeters instead of meters?  It all comes out to the same exact thing, just a different measurement.



There's bigger things to complain about instead of hours vs months.... like extending the amount of hours / months needed.  Who cares if it's 1000 hours or 12 months?  Why not 2000 hours / 24 months?  3000 / 36?  Does stating the hours instead of months / years / semesters REALLY mean anything else?




You're putting a new color of eye shadow on an ugly chick.


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## Symbolic (Oct 5, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> I'm sorry, but people like you are what's wrong with EMS. Why shouldn't we have to have the same background classes as degree seeking students? Why is making A&P 1 & 2 w/ labs a requirement a bad idea? The more knowledge and education we have (not jsut training, but real education) the better off we are. Hell, a monkey could do most of the medic skills if you train them enough.
> We need to stop looking at a medic and saying 'oh they're a medic cause they can do that', or looking at education in hours instead of years if we ever want any respect from other healthcare professions
> 
> Actually... I'm not sorry for saying it, never mind



Over react much? There's a difference between necessity and excess. Those classes can never be a burden and can only aid an individual in his/her career. However, you will notice that nationally the standards for the programs differ. To me its a little much when you need practically an associates degree to perform a Job that does not require one In another part of the country. At the end of the day, the same tasks are performed and they yield the same results.


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## CAO (Oct 5, 2010)

Only an associate's degree.  That's the scary part.


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## Pittsburgh77 (Oct 5, 2010)

If your goal is to become a paramedic, then do it.


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## 46Young (Oct 6, 2010)

FDNYRescueMedic said:


> Every system is different and we can only relate to where we work. In the NYC Fire Dept. you have to be an EMT for at least a year in a 911 system before being considered for medic school. That's if the Fire Dept. pays for it and you get your medic through the academy. We are a two medic system so if your partner is the tech on that day he also does BLS and vise versa. This is where good BLS skills pay off and where I see all to often medics fail miserably. I know in Boston EMS even if you are a medic you have to work on a BLS unit first. We can go back and forth on this subject but it's all a matter of opinion and some will say go straight for the medic cert and others will say you have to pay your dues and work BLS first.



I understand what you're saying. I come from the same environment. For those that are unfamiliar with the NYC 911 system, the medics only get ALS job types. They're not getting the sick jobs, splinting injuries, boarding/collaring/KED on the BS Allstate-itis, to give a few examples. As such, the average medic doesn't see much BLS stuff. One medic I rode with back in the day was struggling with the board & collar. Others can't do a sling & swathe or a traction splint to save their life. In the NYC 911 system, if you didn't spend any time getting good at BLS, you'll hardly ever see that stuff as a medic. Chances are that if you do need to do some bleeding control or immobilization, you'll have BLS onscene doing it with you or for you. In this type of system, it's necessary to have some BLS experience going in to medic school. Remember, the ALS ambulance rotations are seeing the same ALS job types and the same lack of BLS opportunities. I did two years at my hospital as an EMT and then gained a third year of experience while doing the medic program.

Now, I've worked in two other systems down south. My last employer was a county run third service. The entire fleet was medic/EMT unless they were training medics, then it was double medic. The difference from the NYC system is that the buses down there get anything and everything. In NY the medcs can see several good jobs in an 8 hour shift. These southern systems run 24's. You might see a couple of "ALS" where they're okay, and you just do vitals, O2, monitor, IV, txp (V.O.M.I.T.). Your true ALS calls, the ones that NYC medics see on a regular basis, may only come once or twice a week, on average, if at all. They're also seeing all the BLS that the NYC medics would not. As such, an EMT in that type of system can and should go right to medic school. They'll see plenty of BLS on their ambulance rotations in medic school, and also see it afterward in the field.

At my current employer, we do a 16 week ALS internship. Our medic units also get everything, not just ALS. We also do EMD, so everything gets overtriaged, anyway. Medics here aren't thrown to the wolves, either. They can't ride lead on a medic unit until they have 18 months riding under a medic Lt. One could go BLS right to ALS here, too. 

Really, in any system where every unit is medic/EMT, the EMT can go to medic school right away. The medic tells them what to do anyway, so they're really not learning anything. In NY the BLS often have to use critical thinking skills, any may have to handle CTD ALS pts on their own if ALS is extended.


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## fast65 (Oct 6, 2010)

Symbolic said:


> Over react much? There's a difference between necessity and excess. Those classes can never be a burden and can only aid an individual in his/her career. However, you will notice that nationally the standards for the programs differ. To me its a little much when you need practically an associates degree to perform a Job that does not require one In another part of the country. At the end of the day, the same tasks are performed and they yield the same results.



Not to attack you, but I have to agree with what jtpaintball said. Classes like those are the backbone of our curriculum, they only serve to reinforce what we're learning and tie it all together. Honestly, I would love it if an Associates was the bare minimum, we should be striving to push the future of EMS further, and by increasing the educational requirements of future EMS providers that task becomes a little bit easier. 

There's plenty of EMS providers who just want to learn how to do all the "neat stuff" or pump the patient full of drugs without truly learning why they're doing it and what is going on at a physiological level; that is what we need to change, and those classes that seem to be "a little much" are, in fact, crucial in quality improvement.

Now I'm not saying that just because a person doesn't have an Associates they can't be a good medic, because we all know that isn't true, but I am saying that advancements in education are very important to the vitality of this career.

Disclaimer: The above statement is an opinion, and only an opinion that reflects the personal beliefs of the author


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## MusicMedic (Oct 6, 2010)

Symbolic said:


> Yeah, I find it odd that some states require so many pre-reqs for the same job title. Of course we are talking about peoples well being, but If you are able to pay the tuition and perform the job title up to standards, then you should be able to get into a program without all the other college core classes. I haven't taken A&P yet, might consider If I don't make It into the class next semester.



I would Highly recommend taking A&P  as it helps you understand the Human Body and how it works alot better

im currently taking Anatomy (going to be taking Physio next semester), and it really opened my eyes about how little i know.... by the amount of information it makes my EMT class seem like a cake walk.. 
and i believe it will help me during Medic School
i personally believe  all EMT's should be required to take some form of A&P class as a pre req. 

just my 2 cents


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## slloth (Oct 6, 2010)

If you want to do it...do it.  You have the brains..you have the money... the school is available.  Do you have the balls?


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## JPINFV (Oct 6, 2010)

I have always maintained that any paramedic school worth the tuition dollars should be able to take a student with no experience and turn them into a paramedic. You don't have to be a PA to go to medical school or a CNA or LVN/LPN to go to nursing school and there are plenty of PA schools that do not require health care experience. Requiring EMT experience is merely a crutch for sub-par paramedic schools.


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## slloth (Oct 6, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Requiring EMT experience is merely a crutch for sub-par paramedic schools.



Do you think its a crutch or more of a tool to weed out un needed  EMT"s?  There are a ton of nursing jobs out there and plenty of PA jobs but EMT and Paramedic jobs seem few and far.  At least in N. California they are. But I always see nursing and PA jobs around here.


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## DrParasite (Oct 6, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> there are plenty of PA schools that do not require health care experience


really? where?

every PA program that I applied to (and I applied to quite a few) required at least 1000 hours as a prereq.


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## JPINFV (Oct 6, 2010)

DrParasite said:


> really? where?
> 
> every PA program that I applied to (and I applied to quite a few) required at least 1000 hours as a prereq.


From this list of PA programs, http://www.arc-pa.org/acc_programs/ , of the first 10, the following don't require experience. Encourage is not the same as required and there's a difference between, "Get a feel for being a medical professional," and "We refuse to teach people to do a physical exam properly." 

University of South Alabama's website was done at the time this post was made. 

http://main.uab.edu/shrp/default.aspx?pid=32650

http://www.harding.edu/paprogram/Admission.html

http://www.atsu.edu/ashs/programs/physician_assistant/admission_requirements.htm

http://www.midwestern.edu/Programs_and_Admission/AZ_Physician_Assistant_Studies.html

http://www.samuelmerritt.edu/physician_assistant/requirements

http://www.tu.edu/departments.php?id=48&page=1195

So out of the first 10 colleges with working websites, 6 do not require health care experience. Also, none of those programs required any specific one field to have experience in.


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## JPINFV (Oct 6, 2010)

slloth said:


> Do you think its a crutch or more of a tool to weed out un needed  EMT"s?



Interviews. Requiring academic pre-reqs (since I absolutely don't trust paramedic programs to incorperate courses like anatomy and physiology into their program. Too many "2 weeks of A and P and you're done" programs ruined that route. Also, I'd argue that it's the job to graduate well educated providers, not act as some sort of control gate to limit the amount of providers in a given area.


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## medic417 (Oct 6, 2010)

More places should just include the basic in the first semester of the degree program.  That allows you to meet the states requirement of being a basic but also keeps you from getting side tracked and forgetting to return to complete your education.  

Here is just one example.

http://www.westtexas.tstc.edu/index..._id=30&short_dept_name=ems&degree_plan_id=639


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## TransportJockey (Oct 6, 2010)

slloth said:


> Do you think its a crutch or more of a tool to weed out un needed  EMT"s?  There are a ton of nursing jobs out there and plenty of PA jobs but EMT and Paramedic jobs seem few and far.  At least in N. California they are. But I always see nursing and PA jobs around here.



I think a large part of that is the market is entirely oversaurated with EMTs amd medics. A lot of people get their basic looking for an easy job that pays well without college, and a lot of people get into it and also get their medic to do cool things. PA and RN, on the other hand, take a good amount of education and not everyone wants to go to school for that long.


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## CAO (Oct 6, 2010)

Uggh...I hope this makes sense.  Brain feels like its trying to fight it's way out of my skull.

Bottom line is you've got to be able to figure out what's best for your patient.

More education isn't going to hurt, is it?

Performing skills is one thing; knowing when to use them is another.

Joe Blow the medic finds a patient, and her lungs sound like a washing machine.  He gets all excited because he gets to use one of his new drugs, and he pushes Lasix.  That's what his protocols say, so it's gotta be the right thing.

He forgot that he found her on the floor in her kitchen.  She's been there for two days, unable to reach a phone, unable to eat or drink anything from her position.  The neighbors got worried when the morning papers began to stack up in her driveway.

Congratulations, Mr. Blow.  You just put her into shock.

You may be able to do it, but if you don't know the reasons, you're little more than a liability.


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## slloth (Oct 7, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> I think a large part of that is the market is entirely oversaurated with EMTs amd medics. A lot of people get their basic looking for an easy job that pays well without college, and a lot of people get into it and also get their medic to do cool things. PA and RN, on the other hand, take a good amount of education and not everyone wants to go to school for that long.



I guess it depends on what route you take.  Some people take a semester long EMT course.  And then a year long paramedic program (like the local JC I would like to attend) add on your pre reqs for *aramedic school.  Now tack on any extra courses and year getting closer to four years.  If you decide to go fire add another semester or an AS degree depending on the school.  

You have been in the field a while so obviously you have first hand knowledge but i'm astounded that someone would become a paramedic for the money.  I just assumed that it was for the desire to work in pre hospital medicine.  If Paramedic was a four year requirement I would still do it.  I just prefer pre-hospital medicine over hospital.  Just a preference not a shortcut for me.  I guess when I"m old and decide my back cant handle carrying a 250lb man down a flight of stairs then I may consider medical school or Nursing but for now my desire is EMS all the way.


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## slloth (Oct 7, 2010)

CAO said:


> Uggh...I hope this makes sense.  Brain feels like its trying to fight it's way out of my skull.
> 
> Bottom line is you've got to be able to figure out what's best for your patient.
> 
> ...


Education is wonderful.  But putting that education in to practice doesn't always translate.  There are more than enough over educated idiots roaming around with a piece of paper that states they are worth more than they really are.


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## JPINFV (Oct 7, 2010)

slloth said:


> Education is wonderful.  But putting that education in to practice doesn't always translate.  There are more than enough over educated idiots roaming around with a piece of paper that states they are worth more than they really are.


At the same time, there are a much greater number of people who equate training with education while thinking that their training is the end-all, be-all.


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## slloth (Oct 7, 2010)

I agree.  We are (or should be) in a constant state of training/learning.  We are never finished.


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