# SWAT medic questions.



## chriso (Sep 25, 2012)

Howdy everyone, I have a few questions regarding becoming a SWAT Medic. I've been working on a rig for about a year now (EMT) and I've always wanted to be in LE. Right now I'm on the verge of going to POST Academy or Paramedic school. Eventually I want to become a SWAT Medic. Now I'm not quite sure what the best course of action for this would be. Become a Medic first? Or do POST maintain my EMT and eventually see if I can get through Medic school through a Dept? I'm two semesters away from my AS in Criminal Justice as well. Thanks!


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## chriso (Oct 5, 2012)

Anyone?


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## Veneficus (Oct 5, 2012)

hey man,

It's friday night. There are a few SWAT medics here, give them some time.


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## nemedic (Oct 5, 2012)

chriso said:


> Howdy everyone, I have a few questions regarding becoming a SWAT Medic. I've been working on a rig for about a year now (EMT) and I've always wanted to be in LE. Right now I'm on the verge of going to POST Academy or Paramedic school. Eventually I want to become a SWAT Medic. Now I'm not quite sure what the best course of action for this would be. Become a Medic first? Or do POST maintain my EMT and eventually see if I can get through Medic school through a Dept? I'm two semesters away from my AS in Criminal Justice as well. Thanks!



Neither a paramedic nor a SWAT/LEO, but if memory serves, when this subject comes up, it depends on the area. Some have their department members go through medic school, some have a tactical add on cert and "borrow" a few bodies from the local 911 or other EMS provider. IMHO and YMMV, I'd ask around your local PDs as to what they require, then you'll know the process and certs you'll need


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## Handsome Robb (Oct 5, 2012)

Our TEMS medics are street medics first then TEMS medics second. They are employed by the EMS agency, not the PD or SO and work a regular shift on the street and are on call for TEMS. 

Like nemedic said, it's going to vary by department.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Oct 6, 2012)

ya it was the same in Portland, there where medics on the Fire Department who got called in for TEMS and also got to do some OT training with SWAT but fire department was there primary mission.

Maybe try looking into some bigger city's departments like LA, NYC, Boston, Chicago, ect


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## Meursault (Oct 6, 2012)

schulz said:


> Maybe try looking into some bigger city's departments like LA, NYC, Boston, Chicago, ect



Tactical medics around here seem to be paramedics first. The people I've spoken to recommend CONTOMS for aspiring medics.

Most of Metro Boston uses regional SWAT resources handled through local law enforcement councils. The people on the LEC SWAT and tactical medic teams have real jobs too, usually with a member department or local EMS. At least one LEC does "borrow bodies", but it's not for direct tactical use. It all seems a little ad hoc. 

There isn't much info online about BPD SWAT (even though I see them and their badass black Suburbans out all the time); it doesn't fit with the Operation Hoodsie Cup PR focus Mumbles prefers. I suspect Boston EMS has little or nothing to do with them, but I have no solid info. BEMS Special Ops is focused on incidents anticipated and unanticipated, hazmat, and maybe urban SAR.


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## medicdan (Oct 6, 2012)

I have several friends who are involved in the regional lepcs... and the prevailing training to get in the door seems to be TCCCC.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Oct 6, 2012)

I know a few people that are on (or were on) SWAT teams as medics. One up in Wisconsin was part of the local ambulance service, the SWAT team just pulled medics from there and train them in the tactical aspect of SWAT and TCCC. Another guy in Texas is on the fire department as a shift supe and also works as a SWAT medic while on duty. The PD just has a pool of guys, always on duty with the FD they pull from if the need a SWAT team.


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## HN8404 (Jan 7, 2013)

*wondering*



lightsandsirens5 said:


> I know a few people that are on (or were on) SWAT teams as medics. One up in Wisconsin was part of the local ambulance service, the SWAT team just pulled medics from there and train them in the tactical aspect of SWAT and TCCC. Another guy in Texas is on the fire department as a shift supe and also works as a SWAT medic while on duty. The PD just has a pool of guys, always on duty with the FD they pull from if the need a SWAT team.



I was wondering, do they do the same thing around the Colorado state? Or do they just pull in Police to train as EMT's?


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 7, 2013)

For our local PD SWAT team the medics are fire department EMTs/Medics and or Doctors. 

I'm not familiar with any PD being Medics in my area (ex medics but not currently). We do have an international school of tactical medicine in my city tho.


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## mycrofft (Jan 7, 2013)

Tactical Medics inside the USA seem to be sort of a "Ghost Brigade". Every time I contact someone who was trained, they rarely did anything, and when they did, a civilian could have done it with an officer minding them.
Now, full-on military is another matter...
PJ's, hoo-ah!


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 7, 2013)

When I went through tactical medic school at ISTM there were 2 MD's from Colorado that were going to work on teams


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## Christopher (Jan 7, 2013)

firefite said:


> For our local PD SWAT team the medics are fire department EMTs/Medics and or Doctors.



I don't think we have any doctors on the teams, but paramedics in our counties provide this service and are deputized.



firefite said:


> We do have an international school of tactile medicine in my city tho.



I thought groping was frowned upon? ;-)


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jan 7, 2013)

Thats for the touchy Feely tactical medic types


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## mycrofft (Jan 7, 2013)

Palpation and percussion are valuable diagnostic procedures, but I think they can be dispensed with since you will be tying on battle dressings with your teeth while furnishing suppressive fire.:glare:


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## Tigger (Jan 7, 2013)

HN8404 said:


> I was wondering, do they do the same thing around the Colorado state? Or do they just pull in Police to train as EMT's?



I know of several area in Colorado where an ambulance service provides medics to the local SWAT teams. They give these medics additional training in tactical medicine and movements and they are on call for SWAT assignments but are otherwise working a regular truck. They are trained to operate in "warm" zone, though I am aware of some that do carry weapons on deployments.  

In Colorado Springs one engine company is designated as a TEMS company, and all assigned there when through CONTOMS. They respond with the police and sheriff's office when requested in a big white van set up as a rudimentary ambulance and equipment hauler.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 7, 2013)

FWIW our TEMS medics operate in the warm and hot zone however are unarmed, maybe a sidearm, if they're lucky, under direct cover from SWAT operators. 

We have a team of 8 TEMS medics. All have TCCC and a STORM class as a base then do monthly trainings with the SWAT Teams as well as TEMS Team trainings.


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## mycrofft (Jan 7, 2013)

Translation please:huh:


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## mycrofft (Jan 7, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Translation please:huh:


Better yet, put one of 'em on the line!


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 7, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Translation please:huh:



FWIW - for what it's worth

SWAT - not going to break that one down for ya... 

TEMS - Tactical Emergency Medical Support/Service

TCCC - Tactical Combat Casualty Care

STORM - Specialized Tactics for Operational Rescue and Medicine

TCCC is generally included under the STORM class.


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## mycrofft (Jan 7, 2013)

Robb said:


> FWIW - for what it's worth
> 
> SWAT - not going to break that one down for ya...
> 
> ...



Danke schoen!


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 7, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Danke schoen!



Other common ones are:

TOMS - Tactical Operational Medical Support

CONTOMS - Counter Narcotics and Terrorism Operational Medical Support


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## firecoins (Jan 7, 2013)

NYPD ESU are cops with EMT cards. Many are medics. They would all handle all SWAT team needs.   

FDNY has rescue medics from the EMS division albeit they don't have anything to do with SWAT.  They do building collapses and various rescues. So it is a tactical EMS styled response. They usually respond to normal EMS calls in their own rig until they have a rescue situation. 

Greenburg Police in Westchester NY runs ALS rigs. I don't think they are tactically trained but I don't know. They are cops and do pull people over in the rig.


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## HN8404 (Jan 8, 2013)

*Got it*

some great answers
So long story short, there isnt anything such as a full time tactical medic. Or at least if im picked for training it isnt anything more than a powerpoint class. 
Do I have it right?

I was a field corpsman in the Navy for several years so im sure it would be a joke <_<

Thanks


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## Tigger (Jan 8, 2013)

HN8404 said:


> some great answers
> So long story short, there isnt anything such as a full time tactical medic. Or at least if im picked for training it isnt anything more than a powerpoint class.
> Do I have it right?
> 
> ...



There are very few fulltime SWAT team, making the possibility of a fulltime tactical medic even lower. You would days without a call.


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## gmoe240 (Feb 2, 2013)

"So long story short, there isnt anything such as a full time tactical medic. Or at least if im picked for training it isnt anything more than a powerpoint class.
Do I have it right?

I was a field corpsman in the Navy for several years so im sure it would be a joke"​
I'll throw my two cents in here...A full time tactical medic will probably only be found at the largest agencies, we're talking about cities close to or over one million population or so.  Most are going to be either paramedics with a local EMS/FD on call, or will be police officers on the SWAT team who are also EMT/Paramedic certified.

As for the training being nothing more than a powerpoint class, I would certainly hope not, and highly doubt there are any such classroom only classes.  Most tactical medic training, and I've been to a few, will be a week or more in length.  The good ones will have much more practical, hands-on training that sitting in a classroom.  The really good ones will push your brain and physical abilities.

I am a Corpsman in the Navy Reserve, 27 years of service, three tours in the sandbox, etc.  The classes that I've been to have not been a joke, you will find some things are a refresher and some things you will learn that you never even thought about before.

I am a full-time police officer on our agency's SWAT team since 2000.  I've been a paramedic since 1989, long before I became a cop.  I am the tactical medic on our team secondary to being a SWAT operator, then we have a firefighter on our team who's primary job is tactical medic.  He is armed the same as we are makes entry right along with us (the rear of the stack).

Let me know any questions you may have, I'm an old fart that has been doing this for quite a while.

Gary


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 2, 2013)

A TEMS class worth going to is not going to only be powerpoint based. If it is, get your money back. Like gmoe said, they will be more practical, scenario based, and "table talk" exercises than death-by-powerpoint and far from "a joke". 

One question I'll ask is if you're so set on wanting to be a full time tactical medic why leave the military?

Our TEMS team does ~50-60 call outs a year and generally about the same amount of full day training between their own, the two PDs, one SO and various federal agency SWAT Teams they provide TEMS for when they're in the area. That's in a urban/suburban/rural region with ~500,000 residents. Just for perspective's sake, we run about 70-80k EMS calls per year. 

Been busting my *** to do even better than I did on the last TEMS test. I'm right there with ya chomping at the bit to get on the team but like I and others have said previously in this thread, you've got to pay your dues first before you can get the "cool guy job".


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## systemet (Feb 2, 2013)

Our guys work on a regular ALS rig, with a kit bag with their backpack, helmet and level III, gas mask etc.  When tactical is going on a high risk call, they get sent to meet them at the gun room, or on scene.

My agency selects experienced medics that have to then meet the police department's physical fitness standards, and complete a training course. I don't know how long or rigorous this is. They're not sworn law enforcement, so they're not armed, and while they're treated as team members their role is very clearly defined as medical. 

They provide the team with someone who's physically conditioned, and can run up a few flights of stairs without having an MI.  Because they have some familiarity with the environment, they can get them a little closer, but if they're moving them in really close, they need an armed escort.  They're trained to handle and safe weapons, but obviously this is a skill that shouldn't ever be needed unless something has gone very badly wrong.  They can work in CS / OC environment, have lighter weight kits, carry around quik-clot, and some colloid, which we don't normally have on regular duty trucks.  They're there so that any suspects or bystanders can be quickly evaluated, and additional resources called as appropriate.

In short, despite the oakleys, tucked in pants, and wackerish "tactical" patches, they're pretty much regular paramedics that the team has chosen to work with that provide them a service that they feel is worthwhile.

I've heard stories that some of the US teams arm their medics and use them in breach entry, and other riskier situations.  Our guys don't do that.  As a regular duty medic I think they provide a valuable service.  I don't think that the team would use them if they didn't think so too.  But I think it's a misconception that tactical medics are somehow rapelling through skylights shooting hostage takers with an MP5.  At least in my region.  Most of the guys I've worked with have been pretty honest about this.

 experienced enough to work independently as a paramedic, and has a better understanding of their environment. 

This gives the team someone who they can take with them


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 3, 2013)

Sounds like you and I potentially could work for the same agency. hah. Basically exactly how the team is here.


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## fububoy80 (Feb 9, 2013)

like most others have said, some agencies have fire dept paramedics, ER physicians, etc that are called out. some are armed and go through some swat training. 

some other agencies have the officers train as emt-bls and used them as their medics.


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