# What age is appropriate to introduce firearms to your children?



## MMohler (Mar 20, 2017)

I saw a video the other day and I am sure some have you have seen it as well. There is a 7 year old girl with her father and younger brother hunting deer. It is about a 2 minute video and at the end of it the daughter tags her first deer. Given the gun was mounted and she did not have to do much more then aim and shoot. I do not have kids so I cannot say for sure what this answer means to me. I do think that every person in my future household should know how to handle and use a firearm effectively and safely. I do think that teaching kids at a young age is appropriate because if you teach them that it is not a toy and show how them to use a gun safely they understand the seriousness of it. Especially in this line of work where I may not be home for 2-3 days at a time I will feel some comfort that my family would be able to defend themselves.  There are obviously people that think this is wrong because of school shooting, family shooting, etc.If the firearms are locked up properly this should not be an issue. What do you guys think?


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## Akulahawk (Mar 20, 2017)

IMHO, basic firearm safety (cue Eddie the Eagle) should be introduced fairly early on. It teaches kids what to do if they find a firearm and nobody else is around. It's 4 very simple and easy rules. I taught them to my kid when she was 4 and kept reinforcing that for about 2 years. Once she was old enough to understand that her actions have consequences, even serious consequences, then I introduced her to my firearms, taught her about the more "usual" rules of firearm safety, did that over a couple months, and took her out to the range when she was ready. She had fun and enjoyed the time with me. One _other_ thing that I have reinforced with her over the years is that she may look at and handle and shoot (under supervision) my firearms any time she asks me.

Why did I do this? It's simply because I want to make firearms a "no big deal" and ensure that there's no mystery around them. Consequently, she's not interested in looking for them because she knows where they area and how to get to them if she wants to. She's now approaching 14 and shows little interest in firearms but she's certainly not afraid of them and in many ways, is pro-gun, even if only to protect the right to have them, even if she doesn't ever want one herself. 

When exactly will _your_ kid reach the age where they'll understand consequences like this? You'll know when it's appropriate for each kid you have because you'll know each one far better than I ever will.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 20, 2017)

"You'll shoot your eye out!" Ok, now that that's done, carry on.

#DoesntEvenOwnaGun


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## GMCmedic (Mar 20, 2017)

My daughter is 3 and knows not to touch firearms. I dont leave them accessible, but if she continues to listen and do what is asked of her(dont touch the safe period, dont touch dads holstered firearm, etc etc) she will learn to shoot when she is 5. 

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## EpiEMS (Mar 20, 2017)

Akulahawk said:


> It's simply because I want to make firearms a "no big deal" and ensure that there's no mystery around them.


I love this strategy!



MMohler said:


> Especially in this line of work where I may not be home for 2-3 days at a time I will feel some comfort that my family would be able to defend themselves.



Eh, the evidence on this is pretty weak. Not that I object to ownership, I am just not so sanguine on the potential positive impacts on home security.


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## CALEMT (Mar 20, 2017)

Akulahawk said:


> Eddie the Eagle



Dude! That brings bad memories! I learned how to shoot guns when I was around 4 years old. With my dad being a LEO and a hunter it was imperative that my sister and I learned gun safety. When I was a kid there were/ are two loaded guns around the house. My dads carry for work and my moms 38, so we learned gun safety and handling at a young age. 

Now that I'm older, I feel like that 4 is a good age to learn and like Akulahawk said, reinforce it for a few years so it sticks. I'm 22 turning 23 in June and the things that were taught to me at 4 years old I still practice. Plus I can shoot a rifle like no tomorrow, so thats another plus.


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## Akulahawk (Mar 20, 2017)

MMohler said:


> in this line of work where I may not be home for 2-3 days at a time I will feel some comfort that my family would be able to defend themselves.





EpiEMS said:


> Eh, the evidence on this is pretty weak. Not that I object to ownership, I am just not so sanguine on the potential positive impacts on home security.



One thing I do agree with this NOT giving unfettered access to firearms, loaded or not, when I'm away. I have a CCW and I generally have a firearm upon my person while I'm awake. If I'm at work, I do not carry there as that's an instant path to termination of employment. My wife is anti-gun and hates the fact that I'm a gun owner. For a number of reasons, I will not allow her access to my firearms right now. That being said, I do carry when I'm at home. The positive impact upon home security is only present when someone present is trained and is willing to employ deadly force appropriately in defense of the human household occupants from (usually) other humans.


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## StCEMT (Mar 20, 2017)

Akulahawk about perfectly summed up how I was taught. I was definitely curious growing up, but I also knew all I had to do was ask, so I never felt the need to sneak around and look. There is no right age necessarily, just level of maturity/understanding.


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## EpiEMS (Mar 20, 2017)

Akulahawk said:


> The positive impact upon home security is only present when someone present is trained and is willing to employ deadly force appropriately in defense of the human household occupants from (usually) other humans.



That sounds about right: Conditioned on the firearms user being well trained and willing to employ deadly force, I'd wager that the P(Inappropriate Use) falls and P(Appropriate Self Defense Use) rises in circumstances where defense is required. That said, most people aren't going to be using their weapon for self defense - and presence of a firearm in the home is strongly associated with increased risk of interpersonal violence and self-harm.


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## MMohler (Mar 20, 2017)

Now  I do think that there are pluses and negatives to everything and with the link epi mentioned above it is a tough debate and every household is different. Every gun should be locked up period. I guess it is a time will tell type of situation. I don't own a home or have a family yet so i might have jumped the gun () with the question but it still will always be an interesting topic.


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 20, 2017)

EpiEMS said:


> That said, most people aren't going to be using their weapon for self defense - and presence of a firearm in the home is strongly associated with increased risk of interpersonal violence and self-harm.



Oh, say it ain't so, Epi.....you understand much better than most that correlation doesn't equal causation.

First, over the past decade or two, rates of all types of violence, including gun violence, have been falling steadily, even as rates of gun ownership has increased steadily. How does one square that with the idea that more guns necessitates more crime?

The statistical link between rates of gun ownership and rates of gun violence may be strong, but there are important points left out by those who try to use that fact for political gain. Most critical is the fact that still, a very low percentage of gun owners ever use a gun to commit a crime, or are ever a victim of gun crime. Gun violence tends to be fairly concentrated in certain geographical and/or socioeconomic stations where mental illness and violence of all types are much more common than average. Responsible, law-abiding people don't suddenly become irresponsible and lawless when they purchase a gun.

How often do you hear about shootings happening where there are known to be large concentrations of firearms? Outdoor, uncontrolled shooting ranges? Gun shows? Those are the places that you'd hear about gun crimes happening if the mere presence of guns were a causal factor.

Finally, the idea that the presence of guns doesn't deter other gun crime is sloppy thinking. How many crimes have been deterred by the presence of a firearm? No one knows, but I think it's a safe bet that the answer is LOTS of them. Where I live (rural southern Appalachia) there are big problems with unemployment, drugs, and all the associated (mostly property-related) crime. But there also are high rates of gun ownership and you know what? You _never_ hear about home invasions and only very rarely do armed robberies of any type happen. I can't prove that's because everyone around here knows that a very high percentage of the population here sleeps with a loaded gun in their bedside table and that many also keep one in their vehicle or on their person when they are out and about, but nor can anyone prove that it  isn't.


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## NysEms2117 (Mar 20, 2017)

I agree with @Remi completely. I also agree mostly with @Akulahawk. 
I have no kids yet, I am very into firearms, and *even more into gun safety*. My fiance isn't a gun nut like I am, but she likes the concept of knowing how to shoot, operate a firearm safely, and does in fact want a firearm in the house. I carry open most of the time, because I am mainly working so i'm not worrying about CCW. When/if I have kids i will teach them at a young age this area is a no no zone(gun safe/room), and they will get punished if found there. Once they reach the age when they know wrong from right, I'll teach them gun safety first, have them demonstrate they can safely handle a training gun(got one from work). Then teach them how to shoot. At the proper age this is what i would be doing: 



I think that is a fantastic video demonstrating a competent safe gun owner, teaching his child how to handle a firearm.


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 20, 2017)

I was 28 when I shot my first gun handgun, I'm 33 now. I wish I was introduced to firearms at a much earlier age.


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## MMohler (Mar 20, 2017)

@CodeBru1984 Could you elaborate on this a little more? Why you wish you were younger?


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 20, 2017)

MMohler said:


> @CodeBru1984 Could you elaborate on this a little more? Why you wish you were younger?



I was always taught growing that guns kill, and with that being said never had an opportunity to handle a firearm until I was older. The only reason I handled my first firearm at the age of 28 was because my place of employment at the time (Security Company) paid for me to go through the firearms training course as the company was trying to move in the direction of armed guards.




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## Old Tracker (Mar 20, 2017)

I think my oldest daughter was about 6 and my son was three when they started getting curious about firearms. First we talked, let them see it, touch it, etc. The talk was along the lines of a weapon is a tool, just like a hammer. A hammer can be used for good, but it can also be dangerous. Hit ant with hammer. Then the talk went to that once the gun goes bang, nothing on earth can bring that bullet back. It can hurt something and kill it. An obliging cotton tail was used as an example of how dead is dead. They got the message and I never had a problem. Did similar with the step kids. Never an issue.  And they learned to not tell their friends or try to show their friends. Again, never a problem with any of them.


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## E tank (Mar 20, 2017)

6 or 7


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## EpiEMS (Mar 20, 2017)

Remi said:


> Oh, say it ain't so, Epi.....you understand much better than most that correlation doesn't equal causation.
> 
> First, over the past decade or two, rates of all types of violence, including gun violence, have been falling steadily, even as rates of gun ownership has increased steadily. How does one square that with the idea that more guns necessitates more crime?
> 
> ...



I'm not saying I disagree with your approach - yes, (legal) gun owners aren't going around committing crimes, and I, too, am entirely in favor of the (constitutional) right to own a firearm. The co-variates of violent crime are the same whether you've got guns around or not - but guns increase the lethality (arguably) of violent crime (and there are ample counterexamples to this, I'm sure). Appalachia is a great regional counterexample to the thesis that more guns = more crime.

All this being out there, though, there is ample evidence that the presence of firearms is "associated" - I use the word carefully - with adverse outcomes, such as increased LEO homicides, ("successful") suicide attempts, etc.

Now, to be very nuanced about it, I'd say this: Firearms ownership is associated with adverse outcomes just like car ownership is (e.g. car exhaust suicides). We don't go around giving the privilege to drive* to everybody, likewise we need reasonable restrictions on firearms ownership (perhaps prohibitions on ownership of firearms by people who have been involuntarily institutionalized). Carefully done research by objective minds is the way to get those reasonable policies without infringing on the rights of the vast, vast majority of law abiding gun owners.

*Obviously, restrictions on firearms ownership, given that it is a constitutional right, need strict scrutiny!



NysEms2117 said:


> I think that is a fantastic video demonstrating a competent safe gun owner, teaching his child how to handle a firearm.



Looks darn right to me! It is a shame that responsible firearms use can't be taught in schools (any more, anyway).


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## cruiseforever (Mar 21, 2017)

[Looks darn right to me! It is a shame that responsible firearms use can't be taught in schools (any more, anyway).[/QUOTE]

In a lot of schools it is by the way of trap shooting leagues.  One of the fast growing sports in our area.


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## StCEMT (Mar 21, 2017)

cruiseforever said:


> In a lot of schools it is by the way of trap shooting leagues.  One of the fast growing sports in our area.


That's what I did in high school. Part of why I chose the college I go to.


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## Fido198674 (Mar 22, 2017)

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...-year-old-shot-after-accidental-gun-discharge

As early as possible, and to never leave them laying around either. Saw this and was wondering if this is why the post was brought up. (I vouleenter CR for Phoenix)


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 22, 2017)

If I ever have kids I'm pretty sure they will be popping out with a straw hat, shotgun in one hand, coors in the other, while wearing a denim onesie...


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## Akulahawk (Mar 22, 2017)

As an interesting followup, my kid still thinks shooting is fun and wants to back out shooting with me sometime. She's just not interested enough in it to say "hey Dad... let's go shooting" most of the time... because of an iPhone addiction. YouTube used to be great, now it's solitaire.


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## BassoonEMT (Mar 22, 2017)

If they can crawl they're already in Prone Position!! Mount a rifle and have at it!

In all seriousness, I agree completely with @Akulahawk.
Not only in method, but philosophy.  As we know, everybody is different. Including rate of maturation.


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## RocketMedic (Mar 22, 2017)

Akulahawk said:


> One thing I do agree with this NOT giving unfettered access to firearms, loaded or not, when I'm away. I have a CCW and I generally have a firearm upon my person while I'm awake. If I'm at work, I do not carry there as that's an instant path to termination of employment. My wife is anti-gun and hates the fact that I'm a gun owner. For a number of reasons, I will not allow her access to my firearms right now. That being said, I do carry when I'm at home. The positive impact upon home security is only present when someone present is trained and is willing to employ deadly force appropriately in defense of the human household occupants from (usually) other humans.



You got a CCW in CA?


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## CALEMT (Mar 22, 2017)

DesertMedic66 said:


> If I ever have kids I'm pretty sure they will be popping out with a straw hat, shotgun in one hand, coors in the other, while wearing a denim onesie...


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## MMohler (Mar 22, 2017)

@Fido198674 No it was more brought up about a 7 year old taking down her first deer. Most people got their keyboards out and turned into the third reich about it. The girl showed no lack of safety and showed confidence in safe gun handling.

It really was not a big deal, should have been more of a proud father and an excited daughter thing. Instead it turned into a case of bad parenting and back lash of the sort. 





 *

*edited so I could attach video link


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 22, 2017)

Rocket, you seem surprised.

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## MMohler (Mar 22, 2017)

lol a ccw in CA? yah everyone should be surprised.


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 22, 2017)

MMohler said:


> lol a ccw in CA? yah everyone should be surprised.



I'm not surprised at all.


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## MMohler (Mar 22, 2017)

You must not be from CA then. CCWs are VERY, VERY few and far between unless you are LEO (obviously). The only reason my dad got his is because the only thing stopping a 6 inch blade meeting his abdomen was a duty belt (Class A Fire uniform). So self protection got a pass on his app, but even this year they are getting more strict.


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## Flying (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm far from having kids, but I do remember climbing shelves to reach my dad's .22 out of curiosity.

Kids WILL find a way. I'd say its better to teach the basic premise of what guns do rather than hide them.


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 22, 2017)

MMohler said:


> You must not be from CA then. CCWs are VERY, VERY few and far between unless you are LEO (obviously). The only reason my dad got his is because the only thing stopping a 6 inch blade meeting his abdomen was a duty belt (Class A Fire uniform). So self protection got a pass on his app, but even this year they are getting more strict.



Actually I am from CA, and I'm not LEO.


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## Fido198674 (Mar 22, 2017)

MMohler said:


> @Fido198674 No it was more brought up about a 7 year old taking down her first deer. Most people got their keyboards out and turned into the third reich about it. The girl showed no lack of safety and showed confidence in safe gun handling.
> 
> It really was not a big deal, should have been more of a proud father and an excited daughter thing. Instead it turned into a case of bad parenting and back lash of the sort.
> 
> ...



Well update today is that the parents from that call have rightly been charged with murder of that nine year old. I'm hoping it sticks and they get convicted because that was totally irresponsible and wrong. That guy on this video is doing it correctly and there is nothing wrong with it. It's a sad date when SJWs can't tell the difference between these parents.


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## MMohler (Mar 22, 2017)

@CodeBru1984 Are you from NorCal? I am guessing they are more lax in less populated areas, but OC. Good luck, I would like to apply for one but I don't think there's even a remote chance.


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 22, 2017)

MMohler said:


> @CodeBru1984 Are you from NorCal? I am guessing they are more lax in less populated areas, but OC. Good luck, I would like to apply for one but I don't think there's even a remote chance.



I'm from just north of Los Angeles. 


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 22, 2017)

MMohler said:


> You must not be from CA then. CCWs are VERY, VERY few and far between unless you are LEO (obviously). The only reason my dad got his is because the only thing stopping a 6 inch blade meeting his abdomen was a duty belt (Class A Fire uniform). So self protection got a pass on his app, but even this year they are getting more strict.


Some areas are more relaxed than others. In LA or OC you are not likely to be granted one. In riverside county they do allow more (although the current wait time is 2 years) and in San Bernardino there are a lot more with a much shorter wait time.


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## MMohler (Mar 22, 2017)

Just OC & LA Co problems


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## RocketMedic (Mar 22, 2017)

How's Kern County?


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## Jim37F (Mar 22, 2017)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Some areas are more relaxed than others. In LA or OC you are not likely to be granted one.


We were chatting up some LASD Deputies the other day at the hospital (they were with a patient another crew brought in) and the talk was about how to carry in your car etc and I ended up asking the question if the new Sherrif was more lenient with issuing CCWs....they kinda just laughed and confirmed if you're not a cop or reserve cop don't hold your breath


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 22, 2017)

RocketMedic said:


> How's Kern County?



It's not bad at all. CCW approval and turnaround varies depending on the individual applying, and their reason for applying.


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## CodeBru1984 (Mar 22, 2017)

CodeBru1984 said:


> It's not bad at all. CCW approval and turnaround varies depending on the individual applying, and their reason for applying.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The above being my opinion only.


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## Akulahawk (Mar 22, 2017)

RocketMedic said:


> You got a CCW in CA?


Quite easily, yes I did. I live in Sacramento County, which is a virtual shall issue county. The process takes time, but as long as your background is clean, it's easy. Many Counties in California are the same way, but not all of them are. Generally speaking, if the county went for Hillary Clinton in the Nov 16 elections, it's very difficult to get a CCW there. Orange County was nearly Shall Issue until their current Sheriff took over. If you reside in Orange County, you should have your Good Cause Statement reviewed before you submit the application. There are a few trainers there that can do it, but there's only ONE that I would trust. I don't want to flood him, so if you live in OC, PM me and I'll refer you.


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## Akulahawk (Mar 22, 2017)

Jim37F said:


> We were chatting up some LASD Deputies the other day at the hospital (they were with a patient another crew brought in) and the talk was about how to carry in your car etc and I ended up asking the question if the new Sherrif was more lenient with issuing CCWs....they kinda just laughed and confirmed if you're not a cop or reserve cop don't hold your breath


LA County won't change unless they get a Sheriff that happens to be very lenient. Yes, it is possible to get a CCW there but it is very difficult. Not impossible, but nearly so for most folks. If you're an 830.1 or 830.2 or a Designated Level I Reserve, you do NOT need a CCW to carry as you can carry "on the badge." Same goes if you're LE and have 830.1 powers but aren't specifically listed under 830.1 (not many people qualify for this). 

Also, most Deputies do NOT know much about CCW matters beyond what they do to carry. They follow different rules.


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## CALEMT (Mar 22, 2017)

Its unfortunate because our Sheriff is fairly lenient here in Riverside Co. It's unfortunate because the list is pretty long and theres only 1 deputy for the whole county for CCW permits. Part of that is due to that fact that RSO can't hire enough deputies.


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