# Union v. Non-Union in Private EMS?



## drl (Aug 2, 2014)

Asking out of curiosity: are most private ambulance companies in California unionized? I've read that Protransport-1 was fairly-recently unionized, and I've heard that Santa Clara County EMS (Rural/Metro) is unionized.

Any pros/cons to be aware of when looking for an EMS job that is unionized or non-union?

Thanks in advance.


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## UnkiEMT (Aug 2, 2014)

I've never belonged to a union, and while I certainly think that in some industries, they're a wonderful idea, I don't really see that they offer much to EMS.

I once worked for a service that was owned by a parent company that owned another service. My service wasn't unionized, the other one was.

Not only was our pay scale MUCH better than theirs (admittedly, they had a lower cost of living, but not by that much.), but our perqs were better too. As a minor example, while I was working there, the other company went through a contract renegotiation, the big concession they got was that once a week they could wash their POVs with the company pressure washers. Compare that to the company I worked for where, if you didn't have a call, you could spend your entire shift washing your POV 30 times in a row.

The lesson I learned there is that if you're going to join a union, make sure you pick one that's willing to break kneecaps for you.


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## dC0m (Aug 2, 2014)

I think only private ambulance companies in Northern California (specifically, Bay Area) are unionized. That's probably a result of the fairly liberal area as well as high living costs. If private ambulance companies in NorCal operated like their southern California counterparts, no one would work for them because they would only offer EMTs minimum wage, and Medics slightly higher than that. 

I think most of Southern California's private ambulance companies are not unionized. Why? Because there's tons of EMTs looking for jobs, each one fighting for that minimum wage job. 

The only pro I can think of other than higher wages and perhaps employee protection, is benefits (if any), such as health care, that comes along with unionizing.


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## Angel (Aug 2, 2014)

ive worked for union and non union in ems and in general, union is WAY better.
not just in pay, but the companies have to be accountable for what they do ie, discipline, they have to follow progressive discipline and it has to be JUST. meaning they cant just give you a write up or fire you for some arbitrary reason.

as far as pay goes, there has to be a followed scale, and they have to give you pay increases during a set amount of time. example, i worked for one company where no one has gotten raises for over 2 years, as soon as they got a contract, everyone got raises and would get one every year.

so for some companies it is absolutely required to make it reasonable to work at. for others, like the place i am now. so far things seem to be fair, granted we could get paid more, but ill take a little bit of a pay cut (its actually the same) for some peace of mind and not having to watch over my back all the time.


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## drl (Aug 2, 2014)

Fair points, thanks all. So far I've heard from people in Protransport-1 that the union hasn't helped them much if at all. Not much has changed other than a very slight increase in wages.

Anyone in the Bay know if any of the following are unionized?

Royal Ambulance
Westmed Ambulance
Silicon Valley Ambulance
Norcal Ambulance
Falck/Verihealth


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## Angel (Aug 2, 2014)

ugh, the pro thing is so false. theres been a lot of changes but its hard when the company literally wont give any information. PM me for more info

as far as i know, none of the companies you listed below are union. its almost like saying voldemort to even bring it up to employees and especially management.


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## drl (Aug 2, 2014)

Angel said:


> ugh, the pro thing is so false. theres been a lot of changes but its hard when the company literally wont give any information. PM me for more info
> 
> as far as i know, none of the companies you listed below are union. its almost like saying voldemort to even bring it up to employees and especially management.



Haha! You've got PM!


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## Rialaigh (Aug 2, 2014)

Angel said:


> ugh, the pro thing is so false. theres been a lot of changes but its hard when the company literally wont give any information. PM me for more info
> 
> as far as i know, none of the companies you listed below are union. its almost like saying voldemort to even bring it up to employees and especially management.



I so just gave you a mental thumbs up to your post for a harry potter reference with that just came out of the blue...


That is all


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## looker (Aug 3, 2014)

I never understood how someone thing that just because there is a union there is going to be a room for a raise. Medicare been cutting reimbursement, private insurance companies always match what medicare does etc. The reality is revenue been going down, only good way to make money is in quantity of transportation you make and that means as many IFT as possible. While Southern California Ambulance business been booming over the last 6-8 years, it would not surprised me if we start seeing more companies start going down in the new few years. 

Back to union, unlike some other industry EMS can't go on picket line.So what you really end up getting is very small concession like being able to wash your POV at work. You also result in having some bad employees not getting terminated like they would have before because now you have to follow procedure(give x warnings, make sure you write them up x times reeducate employee etc) and only then you can fire them.


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## Angel (Aug 3, 2014)

Rialaigh said:


> I so just gave you a mental thumbs up to your post for a harry potter reference with that just came out of the blue...
> 
> 
> That is all



haha its true!


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## c3emt911 (Apr 28, 2015)

drl said:


> Asking out of curiosity: are most private ambulance companies in California unionized? I've read that Protransport-1 was fairly-recently unionized, and I've heard that Santa Clara County EMS (Rural/Metro) is unionized.
> 
> Any pros/cons to be aware of when looking for an EMS job that is unionized or non-union?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Unions can't fix horrible mgmt, I would avoid Bay medic and Protransport-1 at all costs


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## CentralCalEMT (Apr 29, 2015)

The pros/cons of working somewhere with a union vary with the company and union. If the company has a good, strong union that is well run and looks out for it's employees, the pros are numerous. It would well be worth the cost of the union dues. However, if the company has a weak union that does not protect it's employees and has no teeth so to speak then all you are doing is losing money from your paycheck for union dues and getting nothing in return. So there is non one correct answer to your question. I would look at specific companies and talk to their employees about the union and then made an opinion based on that.


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## Chris07 (Apr 29, 2015)

I've worked Union and Non-Union. I'm currently at a unionized company. The most obvious difference between the two was pay rate. Starting pay at my current (unionized) company starts EMTs at ~$12.50 with time and half after 8 and double time after 12 (for 8/9/12-hour shifts) and ~$9.50 for 24-hour shifts (paid all 24 hours) with time and a half after 40 hours in a week with 10 days worked a month. My previous company (non-unionized), at the time started at $9.50 regardless of shift length but on 24s they did that only get paid while on a call during that last 8 hours of your shift thing.

Another big difference is that our raises are automatic +2.5% /yr, while my previous non-union company had only "performance-based raises" which left it up to management when they wanted to give you a raise..if ever.

From a morale standpoint, our union puts on little BBQs and events from time to time and they work it out with dispatch to try and get everyone on duty to rotate through our main station.
If anything, it's nice to have a place to vent when problems arise. At least there is a mechanism in place to help make changes when you get initially shut down by management.


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