# Build a Class V Ambulance



## Simusid (Apr 13, 2012)

We just approved $85K to build a class V non-transport ambulance "flight truck".  This will let us staff our 2 911 trucks with staff and junior medics (typically 6 years or less of experience) and the Class V will be given to the senior medic to proceed to the calls as necessary for oversight and training.   Without a flight truck we currently staff the senior medic on one ambulance and the junior members on the other so if there is a questionable call both trucks have to be commited to the scene.  

Anyway, we're leaning toward something like a Chevy Tahoe.  It will carry the full gamut of BLS/ALS gear minus a stretcher.  This includes full drug storage.   I'm looking for the Massachusetts CFR that covers what *must* be done, but I'd like to know what else you would like to have on a flight truck.


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## shfd739 (Apr 13, 2012)

What does Class V mean and what's a flight truck?


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## Simusid (Apr 13, 2012)

Massachusetts defines it simply as a non-transport ambulance, and it is often just referred to as a "flight truck".


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## 94H (Apr 13, 2012)

Also known as a fly-car in some places


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 13, 2012)

We carry two full sets of ALS gear, along with the normal BLS stuff. Is there anything specific you want to know. 

Our service is exclusively ALS chase trucks.


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## shfd739 (Apr 13, 2012)

Tahoe with the SSP package and rear compartment cabinetry would be a good fit I would think. Or a Surburban if you really need the space. I like the SSP Tahoes since they have a lowered suspension and are designed for emergency vehicle use. 

We use crew cab pickups with  camper shells. The bed holds BLS supplies and the ALS gear rides in the back seat. It works, but an SUV would work better.


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## EpiEMS (Apr 14, 2012)

Perhaps a Ford Expedition?


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## Handsome Robb (Apr 14, 2012)

Is you're service that insecure with your medics that a "senior" medic has to be on every call? I understand FTO time but once someone clears it there's no reason that you should have to have dad watch their every move unless your FTO program isn't up to par....

I agree the Tahoe and the SSP package. That'd be a sweet fly-car.


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## Arovetli (Apr 14, 2012)

Simusid said:


> if there is a questionable call both trucks have to be commited to the scene.



If there is a questionable call....why not just call the doctor? Does it really take 6 years to be able to work without mommy holding your hand? Strange...

Perhaps you can clarify.


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## Simusid (Apr 14, 2012)

Arovetli said:


> If there is a questionable call....why not just call the doctor? Does it really take 6 years to be able to work without mommy holding your hand? Strange...
> 
> Perhaps you can clarify.



You may have your mommy.   We have medics.   We staff two trucks.   Not everyone can be a senior medic.   Some are fresh out of school (and may have gone in with no basic experience).   The second truck rolls to help the junior team.   6 years is the average to be rated as a senior medic, and actually most take longer.


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## usalsfyre (Apr 14, 2012)

Simusid said:


> You may have your mommy.   We have medics.   We staff two trucks.   Not everyone can be a senior medic.   Some are fresh out of school (and may have gone in with no basic experience).   The second truck rolls to help the junior team.   6 years is the average to be rated as a senior medic, and actually most take longer.



So you tie up two resources on a call that can be handled by a single medic in most systems? Seems inefficient. I'm gonna take a SWAG and say the "junior" truck is first up on all calls so they can get "experience"? Most places I've worked have managed to not have too high a butcher's bill without a senior person there...

If it takes you six plus years to operate at a competent level in most 911 systems (excluding things like being a supervisor, CCT or RSI) you probably need to evaluate your career choice. It sounds like a way for the "crusty" folks to pick and choose the "cool" calls.


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## Simusid (Apr 14, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> So you tie up two resources on a call that can be handled by a single medic in most? Seems inefficient.
> 
> If it takes you six plus years to operate at a competent level in most 911 systems (excluding things like being a supervisor, CCT or RSI) you probably need to evaluate your career choice. It sounds like a way for the "crusty" folks to pick and choose the "cool" calls.



We're getting off track from my question.  Let me clarify and hopefully put an end to these comments about my staffing.   No, I never said that everyone is coddled for 6 years.   I said that we don't consider someone to be a "Senior Medic" for roughly 6 years.   Staff medics are perfectly capable of running "most" but not all calls.   Sometimes by law we must dispatch two medics and sometimes that means we have to dispatch BOTH ambulances which ties up 100% of our resources.    The fly truck will give us the flexibility to NOT have to send the second ambulance.

The point of my question was to outfit our new truck.  Not to get a critique of our staffing.


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## usalsfyre (Apr 14, 2012)

It's typical ebb and flow. It's just an incredibly odd staffing model, and what happens when the "senior" truck is tied up when needed? 

I really like setups like what n7lxi's service runs, stops you from having to reach in to the FAR rear area if an SUV for equipment. I believe Fraizer and Horton even make climate controlled models.


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 14, 2012)

That is one of the problems with coming to a forum for ideas. Everyone will comment and critique. If you're not comfortable with that... Well, this may not be the place for you. 

Having said that, my system runs custom built squad body trucks and Suburbans. I'd be happy to share the load out and photos. Just drop me a PM.


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## mycrofft (Apr 14, 2012)

Seems to me the best layout for a non-transport is externally accessed stowage with big ovehead hatches to protect contents from rain/snow. Or a pull-out cart systrem sort of like an ambulance litter but just carrying equipment and supplies. Just make sure the drivetrain and undercarriage are appropriate, and the stowage can be kept cool or warm enoug to protect drugs.
We just reinvented the LA County Squad trucks from 1973.






(Photo from Santa Clara, CA, Fire dept website).


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## Arovetli (Apr 14, 2012)

Simusid said:


> You may have your mommy



Actually I need a full time mommy with me 24/7. I rarely make it through a meal without dropping in on my uniform and I can never pin my name tag on straight.
I have designated quite a few coworkers to be my surrogate parents, because despite my size I am actually 4 years old inside.

In all seriousness nobody meant to offend however you incidentally presented a curious anomaly. Now I'm even more curious about this legislative mandate you speak of. However I have nothing to add to the thread because I am a hot mess and the back of my truck is often in tornadic disarray so I will just sit quietly in the corner and sip my juice now.


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## EpiEMS (Apr 14, 2012)

mycrofft said:


> Seems to me the best layout for a non-transport is externally accessed stowage with big ovehead hatches to protect contents from rain/snow. Or a pull-out cart systrem sort of like an ambulance litter but just carrying equipment and supplies. Just make sure the drivetrain and undercarriage are appropriate, and the stowage can be kept cool or warm enoug to protect drugs.
> We just reinvented the LA County Squad trucks from 1973.
> 
> 
> ...



This is an interesting point. It certainly has more storage (or at least the same) as a large SUV like a Suburban or Expedition. But it's probably more expensive and not as easy to drive on small urban streets, right? (I've no personal experience with fly cars other than the large SUV-type ones.)


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## Medic Tim (Apr 14, 2012)

In my system we have ford escapes and expeditions . There is a pull out tray in the back for equipment. The back seats have extra supplies and mci stuff. The SUVs are leased so the less they do to them the easier it is for them to return them . There are a few mini vans as well I always laugh when I see those. Thank god I done have to drive one.


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## Handsome Robb (Apr 14, 2012)

EpiEMS said:


> This is an interesting point. It certainly has more storage (or at least the same) as a large SUV like a Suburban or Expedition. But it's probably more expensive and not as easy to drive on small urban streets, right? (I've no personal experience with fly cars other than the large SUV-type ones.)



Just like driving a pickup truck... no where near as big as an ambulance when it comes down to it. 

To the OP, if you are going to get grumpy when we question a questionable, at best, staffing model then I'm sorry. If you have a paramedic patch and are working as a paramedic and telling people you are a paramedic and advertising paramedic level services you should damn well be able to run any call that comes your way as a paramedic, even if it is snatching and running with the pt because you have no clue what is going on and what to do. If that becomes a habit though something needs to be redesigned.

A ALS fly car should carry exactly what an ALS ambulance carries, minus the stretcher and passenger compartment. 

Our supe rigs are outfitted exactly like our ambulances except for the transport capability. All the BLS gear, all the ALS gear, backboards + c-spine gear x3, pediatric board x1 pedi collars x3, scoop stretcher x1, along with all the extra MCI ops gear designated by our county. 

It's not rocket science to stock a rig.


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## dmc2007 (Apr 15, 2012)

You may want to contact Municipal Headquarters out in Marlborough.  They do outfitting for numerous PD's in the area as well as fly cars.  Odyssey Automotive in Wharton, NJ is another good bit, albeit a bit farther away.


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## mycrofft (Apr 15, 2012)

The old LA squads used a Dodge Powerwagon or some such analog by Chevy, but they carried extrication gear as well.

 I'd say a utility bed on a small pickup would do it for medical only. Maybe four wheel drive, and electrical systems alterations to keep devices charged, accept umbilical power, second battery...separate climate control to the rear like an animal control truck or store drugs where the people sit (four door version)?


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 16, 2012)

And the new squads are built on a Chevy 3500 or a Ford F350. The box is fully temp controlled with self contained heat/AC.


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## DrParasite (Apr 17, 2012)

Contact any New Jersey paramedic.  with the exception of 4 agencies (give or take recent waivers) they all operate in non-transport vehicles for all calls.

I have seen two setups; pickup truck with cab and lots of compartments (or dog catcher truck), and SUV with equipment in the back, with the majority of people using SUV (suburban, excursion, or some other big SUV).  Most people prefer the SUV for EMS stuff, while the Rescue people like the pickup, so they can throw more stuff in the bed that doesn't need to be climate controlled.

find what will be best for you.


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