# Don't open the door...



## ffemt8978 (Nov 16, 2013)

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-Man-chases-medics-with-open-folding-knife--232196111.html



> The medics had responded around 8:45 p.m. to 2nd Avenue Extension South and South Main Street for an unrelated medical call when the man began pounding on the back of the unit. Officials say the man said he wanted to speak with his friend, and started waving the knife at the medics once they opened the door.


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## FltMedicRob (Jan 3, 2014)

Folding knife, how cute. I have a D-Cylinder that says I win....h34r:


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## mycrofft (Jan 3, 2014)

:glare:





FltMedicRob said:


> Folding knife, how cute. I have a D-Cylinder that says I win....h34r:


<_<


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## unleashedfury (Jan 4, 2014)

FltMedicRob said:


> Folding knife, how cute. I have a D-Cylinder that says I win....h34r:



And I have a pair of matching bracelets that say.. Aggravated assault. Self Defense laws are present in most states, But the use of excessive force, I.E. You whack the attacker in the face with a D-Cylinder, Is not covered.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 4, 2014)

How about this one... Drive away while yammering on the radio.

Cops would be there before you could say "boo".  

(If someone was banging on the doors of my truck, that's my plan of action.) 

Smashing someone with an oxygen bottle may sound like fun, but that is 5 seconds you'll never recover from.  Professionally and financially.


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## exodus (Jan 4, 2014)

DEmedic said:


> How about this one... Drive away while yammering on the radio.
> 
> Cops would be there before you could say "boo".
> 
> ...



If someone came at me with a knife and appeared that they could do harm, I would respond with deadly force without a blink of the eye. If you come at a cop with a knife you will be shot as well. Defending yourself with what is available when threatened with deadly force is 100% okay.


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## Carlos Danger (Jan 4, 2014)

exodus said:


> If someone came at me with a knife *and appeared that they could do harm*, I would respond with deadly force without a blink of the eye. If you come at a cop with a knife you will be shot as well. Defending yourself with what is available when threatened with deadly force is 100% okay.



But how can they do you harm when there is a locked door between them and you, and you have the ability to simply put the shifter in "D" and pull away?

Just because they cops can get away with something doesn't mean you can. They get away with all sorts of crap that would get most citizens thrown in prison.


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## TheLocalMedic (Jan 5, 2014)

Halothane said:


> But how can they do you harm when there is a locked door between them and you, and you have the ability to simply put the shifter in "D" and pull away?
> 
> Just because they cops can get away with something doesn't mean you can. They get away with all sorts of crap that would get most citizens thrown in prison.



Sounds like he pulled the knife after they opened the door...


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 5, 2014)

exodus said:


> If someone came at me with a knife and appeared that they could do harm, I would respond with deadly force without a blink of the eye. If you come at a cop with a knife you will be shot as well. Defending yourself with what is available when threatened with deadly force is 100% okay.



Pretty much this. In the worst case when I can not get out of a situation I will use equal force (the same amount of force that the attacker is using). If that means deadly force then so be it. My main goal at work is that I come home alive.

I would much rather try to defend myself in court than be laying on a metal slab in the county coroners office.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 5, 2014)

unleashedfury said:


> And I have a pair of matching bracelets that say.. Aggravated assault. Self Defense laws are present in most states, But the use of excessive force, I.E. You whack the attacker in the face with a D-Cylinder, Is not covered.



If they come at you with a knife I would not consider that excessive force.


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## TheLocalMedic (Jan 5, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> If they come at you with a knife I would not consider that excessive force.



Seconded.  If someone is brandishing a knife, you are well within your rights to do whatever it takes to escape or incapacitate them.  Including braining them with an O2 tank.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 5, 2014)

While it agree that it's within your rights to defend yourself in a deadly situation why engage them if you can escape? Wouldn't that be more ideal? If there's only one option there's only one option and I've got no problem exploring it.


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## exodus (Jan 5, 2014)

Robb said:


> While it agree that it's within your rights to defend yourself in a deadly situation why engage them if you can escape? Wouldn't that be more ideal? If there's only one option there's only one option and I've got no problem exploring it.



I would do this. I would probably hit them with what I had in my hand, then run. I would rather run from a disabled attacker than one who isn't. If you hit once then run. That would be considered equal force. I'm not going to hit for vengeance, but rather hit to make it easier for me to escape.


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## medictinysc (Jan 5, 2014)

Put the shelter in R?


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## Tigger (Jan 5, 2014)

Sorry, butt post from the phone.


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## triemal04 (Jan 6, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Pretty much this. In the worst case when I can not get out of a situation I will use equal force (the same amount of force that the attacker is using). If that means deadly force then so be it. My main goal at work is that I come home alive.
> 
> I would much rather try to defend myself in court than be laying on a metal slab in the county coroners office.


Don't ever say anything like that in court.

Don't ever try and put that into practice.  

If you are in a situation where you are facing a life/death decision or bodily harm your goal should be to use enough force to eliminate the threat.  It doesn't matter how much that is, you just want the threat to be gone.  If you are somebody who REALLY knows what they are doing, that might be much less force than is being applied to you...or it might have to be much more.  

But for when it comes up both in a courtroom, or real life, forget that silly horse crap and apply enough force to mitigate the threat.


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## triemal04 (Jan 6, 2014)

Robb said:


> While it agree that it's within your rights to defend yourself in a deadly situation why engage them if you can escape? Wouldn't that be more ideal? If there's only one option there's only one option and I've got no problem exploring it.


Well...as the recent issue in Florida made clear...(in many different ways)

A lot of states do maintain that you can't use a "self-defense" defense if you had the ability to get away from the problem.  It varies, and some are stricter, and some have more loopholes, but mostly, if you can run, you are supposed to before you fight back.

And if anyone thinks that an EMT, paramedic, doctor or anyone in the medical field wouldn't be judged in the court of pubic opinion if they DID kill or seriously injure someone attacking them, think again.


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 8, 2014)

I do wish it was easier to lock all the doors from inside the box.  

Also, I miss having a passthrough.  I realize the man-sized opening from box to cab was actually less safe, but it's a perception thing.  Now I just have a tiny window that I couldn't fit through if I had to.


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## Rin (Feb 9, 2014)

dixie_flatline said:


> I do wish it was easier to lock all the doors from inside the box.



No kidding. I found myself alone in the box the other night in a bad part of town while my partner was taking care of something in the nursing facility. I decided it would be a good idea to lock the doors until he got back and we could leave, only to realize I was in one of the units without power locks. :/ 

And then I got killed by hobos. The end.

(This message has been brought to you by the ghost of Rin.)


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## mycrofft (Feb 9, 2014)

exodus said:


> If someone came at me with a knife and appeared that they could do harm, I would respond with deadly force without a blink of the eye. If you come at a cop with a knife you will be shot as well. Defending yourself with what is available when threatened with deadly force is 100% okay.



Do you know anyone who killed someone else in the line of duty? 



This is a great armchair response and it is self-reassuring to us, but DEmedic's answer is a good one to me.

…even though….even though it would be so cool to throw it into reverse….no, no, Mycrofft! Bad Mycrofft!


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## mycrofft (Feb 9, 2014)

Rin said:


> No kidding. I found myself alone in the box the other night in a bad part of town while my partner was taking care of something in the nursing facility. I decided it would be a good idea to lock the doors until he got back and we could leave, only to realize I was in one of the units without power locks. :/
> 
> And then I got killed by hobos. The end.
> 
> (This message has been brought to you by the ghost of Rin.)



HAhahha!! But a good illustration.

THINK ahead, plan and act safety. Splitting up, even in nice shiny hospitals, can lead to issues like losing one another, or getting hurt, or seeing something and not having the numbers (as in two people yelling for help) to make the idiots maybe pause or leave.

On the rescue truck , we did EVERYTHING as a team for 24 hrs. except the toilet. Our crewchief was taking an EMT class, we all went and I sat, he took notes, and the rescue man sat and watched. Anything hit the radio, we were gone in ten.

On the civilian ambulance, some drivers just had to split off on their own, probably to chat up some nurse (student). Dumb and rarely scarey things happened.
(NO, not with the nursing strident).


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## Rin (Feb 9, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> HAhahha!! But a good illustration.
> 
> THINK ahead, plan and act safety. Splitting up, even in nice shiny hospitals, can lead to issues like losing one another, or getting hurt, or seeing something and not having the numbers (as in two people yelling for help) to make the idiots maybe pause or leave.
> 
> ...



Yup. Trying to keep track of this guy was like trying to herd cats. He disappeared at least four times that day, among other things. Is it too much to ask for an actual PARTNER?


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## mycrofft (Feb 9, 2014)

Rin said:


> Yup. Trying to keep track of this guy was like trying to herd cats. He disappeared at least four times that day, among other things. Is it too much to ask for an actual PARTNER?



Partner versus co-worker,


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## fortsmithman (Feb 11, 2014)

FltMedicRob said:


> Folding knife, how cute. I have a D-Cylinder that says I win....h34r:



You and my department chief are of the same mind.


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## Hoggie16 (Feb 14, 2014)

Medics should have tased him with their defibrillator.


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## emt11 (Feb 14, 2014)

Hoggie16 said:


> Medics should have tased him with their defibrillator.



Let me refer you to this photo.

https://www.facebook.com/OriginsCom...0.1392373128./671747626190720/?type=3&theater

For those of you on facebook, it is from Origins - An Emergent Comedy and is a legitimate page.


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## mycrofft (Feb 14, 2014)

Should have opened the oxygen valve, then used the Lifepak to ignite it into a roiling tongue of orange smokeless flame….no, wait, that's a Bruise Willis thing, never mind...


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## mycrofft (Feb 17, 2014)

Usp


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