# DC Fire & EMS transports unconscious in Engine



## LACoGurneyjockey (May 30, 2014)

See, we really don't need any more ambulances, fire trucks work way better. 

http://m.jems.com/article/news/dc-firefighters-transport-patient-engine


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## Akulahawk (May 30, 2014)

LACoGurneyjockey said:


> See, we really don't need any more ambulances, fire trucks work way better.
> 
> http://m.jems.com/article/news/dc-firefighters-transport-patient-engine


I wouldn't characterize it that way... more like any transport is better than none when transport is indicated.


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## chaz90 (May 30, 2014)

I think the positive side of this incident should be noted. Yes, it is some kind of failure that the transporting unit was either never dispatched or rerouted, but good work by the first responding unit to make the bold decision to transport when necessary. Not saying it's optimal, but sounds like good work making a poor situation work as well as possible.


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## Akulahawk (May 30, 2014)

chaz90 said:


> I think the positive side of this incident should be noted. Yes, it is some kind of failure that the transporting unit was either never dispatched or rerouted, but good work by the first responding unit to make the bold decision to transport when necessary. *Not saying it's optimal, but sounds like good work making a poor situation work as well as possible*.


My point exactly.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 30, 2014)

We've had it happen before with one of our local fire departments.


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## LACoGurneyjockey (May 31, 2014)

I was making a point that if it's taking upwards of 30 minutes for an ambulance response in a metro area, perhaps adding several ambulances would be of benefit. 
I agree, well done by the engine company, but not so much by DC Fire/EMS as an agency.


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## shfd739 (May 31, 2014)

Sounds like dispatcher error but the engine crew and medic did right by going ahead and transporting. Kudos for that at least and not wanting to wait for the ambulance to finally arrive


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## Akulahawk (May 31, 2014)

Incidentally, I've had something similar happen (a few years ago now) when the County didn't dispatch out an ALS transport unit and we were BLS backup with (separate agency) BLS Fire. An AMR Supervisor unit showed up and we waited... and waited... and requested an ETA on ALS transport... and waited... and finally we transported the AMR Supervisor with the patient. It was the first time in recent memory that an AMR Supervisor jumped on a non-AMR unit. We nearly got sucked into the primary 911 system and the Supervisor nearly got sent out to another call as a transport unit. That was, however, nicely averted by another Supervisor coming on shift early...


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## Bullets (Jun 13, 2014)

LACoGurneyjockey said:


> See, we really don't need any more ambulances, fire trucks work way better.
> 
> http://m.jems.com/article/news/dc-firefighters-transport-patient-engine



And? Its well known that Philly PD transports traumas in the back of their patrol cars....if they need something beyond what you have, then get them to it.


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## 46Young (Jun 13, 2014)

I would say that there are simply not enough ambulances in D.C. 

According to wikipedia (I'm not motivated to look elsewhere; I just needed some quick figures), D.C. has a population of 632k, and they have 39 ambulances, 14 ALS and 25 BLS. For comparison, in Fairfax County where I work, which has a population of 1.1 million, we have 41 ambulances, all of which are ALS, and occasional volunteer participation, which can add a few more BLS ambulances at any given time. 

Both Fairfax and D.C. have transient populations every day, workers, tourists, and people passing through. Even though the number of ambulances is almost the same, Fairfax is very affluent, with a relatively young population, so people aren't generally chronically ill to begin with, there is very little gang violence or other traumas, and the residents are more apt to actually drive themselves to the hospital, rather than call for a cabulance. In D.C. there are much older, poorer residents in poor health, and people of lower socioeconomic status are much more apt to call 911 for very minor/chronic issues that are inappropriate for 911 EMS transport (the proverbial toe pain, so to speak). A busy 24 hour shift for a Fairfax unit would be 8 calls, maybe ten, and most units fall well short of that (probably 3-5 calls a day on average). In D.C. I'm sure that they're on the road constantly.

Let's do an apples to apples comparison - D.C. to NYC, two urban areas with a significant portion of their population being of low socioeconomic status. NYC has a population of 8.3 million, and has 624 scheduled ambulance tours (212 ALS/412 BLS). That's one ambulance per 13,301 people. For D.C. that's one ambulance per 16,213 people. It's clear that D.C. is operating with 20% less ambulances than NYC, per capita. I used to work in NYC 911 EMS (NS-LIJ Hospital), from 2003-2007. I can't recall even one time that the police of fire suppression needed to txp a patient to a hospital, due to no ambulances being available.


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