# nicotine testing?



## unleashedfury (Jan 29, 2014)

I had a job interview this morning all went well till it was mentioned of a "nicotine test" I was honest and told the perspective employer that I would not pass a nicotine test and would rather stop here than to waste their time and money, and mine. I was applauded for my honesty but eliminated from contention for 6 months. At which time if I am "nicotine free" I can try again. 

With all this liberal action about the legalization of marijuana, we are cracking down on nicotine? which has been a legal substance for ages. 


Whilst I agree that when I am on the employers time and property if I chose to maintain employment I should abstain from smoking. But where do we draw the line of what I do in my personal life is that, and what I do in my business life is just that.


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## NaptownEMT (Jan 29, 2014)

That's an unreasonable policy, IMO.  Smoking isn't a moral or legal wrong.  As long as it doesn't affect patient care or the company's image, it shouldn't be your employer's business.  OTOH, smokers are not a protected class under the law, so it's legal to discriminate against you.

(As for me, 2 years nicotine-free in May!)


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## VFlutter (Jan 29, 2014)

Cigarette smokers are not a protected class, there is no legal issue. My current employer tests for nicotine. New employees are not hired if tested positive. Current employees who gets positive are not eligible for the highest level health insurance plan and may be terminated in the near future. The company can choose whatever requirements for employment they want as long as it does not discriminate against a protected class.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 29, 2014)

For my companies medical insurance you can elect to out down that you are nicotine free (they may test you) and you get a reduction in your monthly health care payments. At least thats how it was a year ago.


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## mycrofft (Jan 29, 2014)

Private employer can keep you from working if you have red hair if it displeases them and it is uniformly administered.

I agree it is sort of petty. Especially with the absolute dearth of EMTs to hire nowadays….


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## shfd739 (Jan 29, 2014)

Local hospital system does the same with a pre-employment nicotine test. Test positive and no job offer. Current employees aren't tested.


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## unleashedfury (Jan 29, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> For my companies medical insurance you can elect to out down that you are nicotine free (they may test you) and you get a reduction in your monthly health care payments. At least thats how it was a year ago.



When we had health care benefits, they offered a discount for non smokers in health care premiums. If you elected this you had to take a nicotine test, Fine I can understand that cause its too easy for me to say Oh yeah I'm nicotine free as I'm filling out the paperwork at my desk with a Marlboro in my mouth. 

If you were a smoker or snuff user and opted to utilize the smoking cessation program, after successful completion and a nicotine test that was negative you got the discount. 



mycrofft said:


> Private employer can keep you from working if you have red hair if it displeases them and it is uniformly administered.
> 
> I agree it is sort of petty. Especially with the absolute dearth of EMTs to hire nowadays….



I agree to a extent, yeah EMT's are dime a dozen, but the reasoning behind it was this. "smokers are less productive, and call off sick more than non-smokers" We are also promoting a healthy environment. 

Ok Healthy environment 

So then we should not hire people that do not meet BMI requirements. Or people who have hobbies that have risk factors. People who drive motorcycles, race cars, participate in sky diving, These are all risky hobbies, one good accident could make you a vegetable, or sucking on the Short Term Disability card for a bit. 

IIRC, people who have taken risk factors into play are the reason why hospitals have all these millions to work with. A friend of mine is a respiratory therapist always said I will never nag anyone to quit smoking.. Its job security. 

I have smoked for years, I called off sick once in the last 6 years. 
My last call off and the only one in 2 years was last year when my son was getting emergency surgery. So I guess next we'll say we don't want you to have children if you work for us because children get sick or you may have a child care problem that will prohibit you from attending work. 

Whilst I totally agree that smokers are not a protected class. but for me to partake in a legal substance on my time not my companies is a bit petty.


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## RescueRider724 (Feb 7, 2014)

Were you possibly applying to a career fire service position in PA? If so, the reason smoking is such a touchy issue is the IAFF got the legislature to pass a law about two years ago now that says any firefighter (career or volunteer) that ever in their life time after being at even only one confirmed structure fire that was properly reported in penfirs, has cancer, it is a work related injury period, end of story, show me the money.  Just about all the local municipalities are having MI's when they have to renew their workman's comp policies now, so that may be why they are testing. Our little Boro got hit with a 500% increase, the township is covering the gap as the primary taxing authority in the area. If you are not on with a volunteer department in your area might want to think about it, that is a hell of a safety net for your family.


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## Lamiae (Feb 9, 2014)

At the Med Center of Central Georgia, they had a no-nicotine policy for EMS when I did my clinical hours. At the time, I was a smoker and the policy killed me.


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## unleashedfury (Feb 11, 2014)

RescueRider724 said:


> Were you possibly applying to a career fire service position in PA? If so, the reason smoking is such a touchy issue is the IAFF got the legislature to pass a law about two years ago now that says any firefighter (career or volunteer) that ever in their life time after being at even only one confirmed structure fire that was properly reported in penfirs, has cancer, it is a work related injury period, end of story, show me the money.  Just about all the local municipalities are having MI's when they have to renew their workman's comp policies now, so that may be why they are testing. Our little Boro got hit with a 500% increase, the township is covering the gap as the primary taxing authority in the area. If you are not on with a volunteer department in your area might want to think about it, that is a hell of a safety net for your family.



Nope not a career fire position. I want to finish my Paramedic A.S. before heading into the career fire dept. It was actually a hospital based EMS system. Eh either way what can you do I have 8 months of school left so I'll just tough it out until I graduate and move on from there.


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## DrParasite (Feb 11, 2014)

unleashedfury said:


> Nope not a career fire position. I want to finish my Paramedic A.S. before heading into the career fire dept. It was actually a hospital based EMS system. Eh either way what can you do I have 8 months of school left so I'll just tough it out until I graduate and move on from there.


or you can quit smoking, have more money in your pocket, be healthier, and have more employment opportunities available to you.


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## drjekyl75 (Feb 11, 2014)

1 of the largest hospital systems here in Michigan started the policy of nicotine testing. I'm friends with some of the management and they feel going nicotine free will lower health insurance costs over the long term. With the ACA adding costs to existing plans I can see employers looking to reduce costs anywhere they can.


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## unleashedfury (Feb 11, 2014)

DrParasite said:


> or you can quit smoking, have more money in your pocket, be healthier, and have more employment opportunities available to you.



That's the end goal... but its a lot more difficult than most people think.. 

I have nothing against non-smokers, or smokers for that matter, But I always love how people say well just quit. like you quit a job, or a puzzle or something.


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## MrJones (Feb 11, 2014)

Never forget, when it comes to giving smokers grief, the only thing worse than a non-smoker is an ex-smoker.


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## NomadicMedic (Feb 11, 2014)

I quit 10 years ago. Hardest thing I ever did. And there are days when I STILL crave one, even though the thought of actually smoking a cigarette disgusts me.


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## unleashedfury (Feb 12, 2014)

DEmedic said:


> I quit 10 years ago. Hardest thing I ever did. And there are days when I STILL crave one, even though the thought of actually smoking a cigarette disgusts me.



I quit once, for about a year. Then I fell back into the habit..


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## TheLocalMedic (Feb 15, 2014)

The whole "no tobacco" kick is gaining traction here in California.  Here's the rub though: what about people who use nicotine products but do not smoke or chew?  I quit smoking years ago but for many years still used nicotine gum regularly, and I started using an e-cig recently.  Both have nicotine, but neither have the risks associated with smoking or chewing (nicotine is not a proven carcinogen, despite the efforts of the anti-smoking league to show that it is).  

I would show up positive on a nicotine test, but I am not a tobacco user.  Should there be an exception for people who use alternative products?


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## mycrofft (Feb 15, 2014)

I did a thread asking participants how health care providers can defend and support smoking/using tobacco products.

As I recall, the most honest ones simply said "I like it, I'm hooked".

Others spun off into the civil rights and "fight the power" adolescent aspects. (Oddly, this reminded me of the folks who protested universal urine testing for drugs in the USAF…and virtually every single one tested positive!).:sad:

OP, your employer is right. It is up to you to decide if what they demand is worth what they offer.


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## HeadRusch (Feb 17, 2014)

Nicotine testing isn't always about health insurance costs though.  Those who are dependent on nicotine or cigarettes are at a much more likelihood of being sick, being distracted, taking more breaks, etc.  

The Gabin de Becker and associates, one of the worlds premiere Executive Protection companies does not hire anyone who smokes because of the lack of attention and other undesired effects of nicotine.


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## unleashedfury (Feb 19, 2014)

MrJones said:


> Never forget, when it comes to giving smokers grief, the only thing worse than a non-smoker is an ex-smoker.





DEmedic said:


> I quit 10 years ago. Hardest thing I ever did. And there are days when I STILL crave one, even though the thought of actually smoking a cigarette disgusts me.



The only thing I can say to that is... I'll take grief from a former smoker.. They have been down the road of smoking, then quitting smoking. They have the right to have a bit of a ego. vs. someone who never touched a cigeratte a day in their life.


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