# packs and supplies for SAR



## Cake (Jul 6, 2010)

I wanted a general idea of what you SAR EMS/WEMT folks use for a pack and supplies when out in the boondocks?

I know that there is a pack list for SARTECH levels, and a lot of the SAR guys around here seem to keep their bags packed and ready to go.  But as far as the medical aspect of things go- do you have 2 separate packs and leave one at basecamp, or combine personal and medical gear into one pack?   

Same goes for the WFR/WEMTS...for those of you with guide or outfitter experience, how do you manage an extra amount of med supplies on top of humping your own gear?  I'm probably kind of OCD, and prefer to have everything organized and separated from each other.  

I was looking at stat packs, and they just weren't doing it for me.  A couple packs from conterra definitely seem more fitting:

http://www.conterra-inc.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=18

or even

http://www.conterra-inc.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=17


Also, based on previous criteria, what are some of the essential med supplies you would bring out with you? Im thinking sam splints, dressings, kling(or its equivalent in self adhesive bandages), antibacterial and a couple emergency blankets for starters.  Do medics bring stethoscopes and bp cuffs out with them?  

Sorry if these are whackerish questions- its a side of EMS that i'm REALLY interested in, and I'd like to get an idea of what I'd be getting myself into.  I'm really into being outdoors, and I'd love to find a way to combine the 2 fields so I can avoid rotting away in cubicleland.   

Also, I wouldnt think of these situations as a time or place to be setting up IV's(or carrying bags, etc around) so would there be any reason to continue on to paramedic and apply it to something like this?  Do BLS skills get you by?


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## TraprMike (Jul 6, 2010)

*don't just look at the overpriced EMS bags*

Hello, and I reflect your attitude on SAR.. I ran bloodhounds for almost 10 years with my PD. and before I was an EMT, I still carred a pretty good FAK in a hydration pack. 
I bet if you have a look in the packs of your buddies, you will not only find a FAK, but personal survival tools/equip. 
right now I have a CamelBak model w/hydration tube. I have the basics for ABC's. nothing fancy. sam splint, lots of 4x4's,2x2's, cling, few band aids. and a good CPR mask, 
along with that, whistle, a stripped down MRE, USGI poncho (these are alot better then those "survival blankets". 
I have an LED minimag flashlight (ya, old school, with an upgrade) and a headlight that uses the same AA batteries.  a couple chemlights.  

what ever pack you chose, make sure it has a radio pouch that securly holds your HT. if you have an external mic/speaker strap that mic cord to the straps... 
and remember, in SAR , the scene is never safe..  
hope this helps


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 6, 2010)

I am a minimalist.  Everything in a SAR Pack should have multiple uses.  Weight is not your friend.  Medical gear tends to have only 1 job; a purpose that might not even be needed.  In this we have a problem.  I follow the advice of a local SAR Guru, former Medic, and current Trauma Center MD who's personal DEDICATED medical gear in his pack consists of: 1 4x4, IBU, and MS.  That is all; he figures that if he needs anything past that he neesd to get out of there ASAP (focus on evacuation and not treatment).  From a SAR perspective your dedicated medical gear should be capable (at minimum) of handling any basic injuries you and your team members sustain.  Thinking about what you should carry for that victim you might run across is secondary.  I pack medically with simple concepts in mind:

1.  Basic injuries do not require much gear.  If the injury is very basic and you can continue with the search/rescue, march on.  This applies to Team Members mostly, but with victims, it is also true that basic care is usually good enough until you get them out of there.

2.  If an injury is serious enough, there is nothing I could carry that would be good enough (I am not packing in an ambulance).  You are not really gonna treat in the wilderness.  Evactuation is the key.  

3.  The SAR reality is that by the time we find them they are either gonna be dead because of their injuries or alive in spite of them.  Nothing we do is gonna be that meaningful (99% of the time).  Packing for the worst case is not smart since worse case is dead and I do not carry body bags around on missions.  If the injuries were that bad and they survived them without us for XX hours or days, they can probably survive another hours or more with us there SUPPORTING THEM, not trying to cure them.  My pack reflects this.

4.  If I know that I will be required to deal with a patient, I will grab a BLS Fanny Pack or other specialized gear off the trucks before I take off...

5.  Gear is not a SAR Members friend.  Limited gear that works well and will be used is great.  The biggest asset a SAR Medical Team Members has is their brain.  Evaluate, recognize, treat with what works (not what is textbook), and evacuate.  I do not nead gear... I need ability...

Therefore, my medical gear is pretty simple.  First, I recommend to First Aid/CPR Team Members a basic "WalMart" first aid kit that they have opened up and added a few extra bandages and such to.  For me, I feel obligated to carry a little more as Medical Team Leader (as do other EOCs, EMTs, and Medics on the Team).  My pack is about 8x6x2 in size.  It has a few sets of gloves (mostly for bodies), a few 4x4s, 2 military style bandages, band aids, some safety pins, IBU, and that is about it.  Carrying material for specific situations makes littel sense when other items in your pack or items found in nature will do the job clothing, fire starting, space blankets, knife, etc...  If additional gear is needed in a rare sitution I might add a few extra NEEDED pounds of gear into the pack or have the gear available for rapid deployment when it is needed.

Take the call we ran 2 days ago.  Medically he was stable but had issues that required transport by ambulance to a hospital.  First we had to get him out of the river canyon.  His issues (after 2 days in the woods):  Mild hypothermia, a lot of lacerations to the legs, back pain (a number of good falls trying to navigate the canyon), sunburn, mildly dehydrated, and mildly hypoglycemic.  In street medicine I am sure we could all come up with a treatment plan involving gear that we would have at arms reach in the ambo.  Our treatment?  BSI (due to the lacerations. otherwise I might have forgone that), warmer clothing (ours in our pack), a space blanket, small amounts of water PO, small amounts of granola PO, and rest in a "position of comfort until we could evacuate him (within a hour) by helo/short haul to the hospital.  The only things I was concerned with were hypothermia and the lack of food/water in his system for 2 days in a wilderness environment.  The only medical gar we used were gloves.  Everything else was not part of the dedicated medical gear (cloths, blanket, food, water) but was our personal gear for us.

Anyway, that is my philosophy on medical SAR.  My job is to locate, access, stabilize, and transport.  I am not gonna focus on stabilizing over searching, accessing, and transporting.  If anything, my overall SAR gear is gonna relect that I find the search and my safety to be of bigger importance than planning for a worse case scenerio.

Ask yourself:

Do I need sam splints?  Oh, look sticks in the woods and I have duct tape.  Or foam padding and rope.  Or anyting else ridged.

How much bandaging material do I need?  If the injuries require a lot of material, they are bleeding out, and you are not getting them out in time.  Besides, beyond a bew badages you have hankerchiefs and clothing to apply preasure and wrap.

Do I need oxygen?  How fast will it run out?  Did they do without it before up got it to them?

Do I need CPR gear?  If they coded in the wilderness environment, by the time you get to them they will be 100% dead.

What do you NEED... not what seems cool to carry... trust me, after the first mile or two in 100 degree weather that extra 3-5 pounds of medical gear in your pack is not gonna seem like a good idea...  My first SAR medical pack was easily 6-8 times bigger and heavier than what I carry now.  It just means I have "extra" room for gear related to the search and my survival.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 6, 2010)

Oh, as far as packs go... Conterra is good stuff; and the cost replects that.  I do have the crossbow pack and used it for a few years before I moved on to a statpak.  I only did this because I caused some major damage to the crossbow pack and the statpack was on sale.  My issue is getting something small enough to carry just what I need and having it be comfortable.

As far as other non-medical gear, see the next post (a large one).  This is what I recommend and what was "published" in the latest edition of our Team Training Manual

Note:
1. This is our list for how we do things... other teams do things differently
2. The recommendation on water purification is a local thing based on research condcuted at UC Davis over the course of many years, as well as years of personal experience.  Do not take this stance without doing your own research!
3. The extensive lists of possible suggested material as well as other text boxes of additional information was omitted, but includes everything you will find on 10 essential lists, backpacking lists, and SAR Tech lists.



> KEY POINTS TO TAKE HOME
> 
> •Always question what you’re carrying.  Balance perceived needs against your effectiveness as a team participant.
> •Always closely analysis the weather and terrain you will be working in.
> ...


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 6, 2010)

...



> A common question that new team members have is, “What kind of gear do I need to carry?”  Unfortunately, there is no single list that standardizes what you will need for every SAR mission or every environment.  The following listed equipment is a generic recommendation of what you might carry depending on the mission type, length of the mission, environment, and weather.  If you were to examine two seasoned team members’ packs, you would likely find two distinct sets of gear.  Likewise, the gear that any team member carries will vary based on the time of year and mission type; and there is nobody on the team that hasn’t second guessed what they carry and is constantly changing the contents of their pack.  These are just recommendations on what gear might assist you in remaining safe, effective, and efficient in a mission.  Experience will be the best way to decide what to carry and when to carry it.  And just like the rest of the team, you will need to constantly question what you carry as you try to balance perceived needs against your effectiveness as a team participant.
> 
> YOUR PACK
> Some of your selected items can be carried on a belt, in pockets, or strapped on to your person.  But the majority of your gear will probably be carried in a backpack (or in some cases a vest).  Your pack should:
> ...


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## zmedic (Jul 6, 2010)

It depends a lot of what the mission profile of your team is. I've done SAR in two places. At the first place about 98% of the calls were for actual search, people who were missing. Those that were found alive needed hypothermia care but that's it. At the second place I'd say that about 75% of the calls were for traumas, from climbing accidents, bike accidents etc. in a relatively known location. So if you are with an organization that has a mission profile like the second I'd be bringing more medical gear because you are much more likely to need it. It also depends on the level of medical care your team provides. My second team we had medics, so for a lot of those traumas they got IVs, pain meds, C-collars which had to be carried in. 

Also talk to your team about different search strategies and how medical plays into that. The first team I was on we had basically three levels of response. One was a hasty team, checking trails etc with little gear (no sleeping bags, first aid kit basically gloves and some gauze.) The second level was for general off trail searching. We tended to be more heavily loaded as the navigators so the dog handlers could keep up with the dogs. That second level tended to carry a fanny pack sized medical kit with sam splints, gauze, ace bandages etc. The third level was for going slow to a known patient, it was the big medical kit that was usually carried with the litter in to the patient. This one had IV supplies, airway kit, ALS gear (search team was run out of the medical school, so we were providing fairly high level of care.)

So not everyone has to carry a huge medical kit, but I'd say everyone should have a basic very small kit with gloves and gauze and you might want to think about a bigger kit that someone can haul in once the patient's location is known so it's not being carried around the woods for hours on the search.


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## zmedic (Jul 6, 2010)

Also for packs I really like this company, which I have no affiliation with:

http://traverserescue.com/store/product.php?productid=228&cat=5&page=2

It's not really a medical pack, but a good size for SAR hasty missions (I would take something bigger if I thought I was going out in the winter and wanted to bring a sleeping bag, full change of clothes, stove etc.) It's especially great it you do patrol/winter stuff, you can strap on skis, ice axes.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 6, 2010)

zmedic said:


> Also for packs I really like this company, which I have no affiliation with:
> 
> http://traverserescue.com/store/product.php?productid=228&cat=5&page=2
> 
> It's not really a medical pack, but a good size for SAR hasty missions (I would take something bigger if I thought I was going out in the winter and wanted to bring a sleeping bag, full change of clothes, stove etc.) It's especially great it you do patrol/winter stuff, you can strap on skis, ice axes.



Nice Z... I will have to put that on my E-Bay Wish List.

See, what I do is find packs and such that I like but are expensive and then wait for some "Over Zealous SAR Gear Junkie" to realize that their is no money, fame, or prestige in SAR and then sell all their like-new gear on e-bay at a fraction of what Conterra, Stat, and others sell it for new...  BWAHAHAHA...


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## LucidResq (Jul 7, 2010)

Petroleum jelly soaked cotton balls in a ziploc bag, lots of waterproof matches, and paracord.


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## LucidResq (Jul 7, 2010)

And I freaking love my Jetboil and it was totally worth the expense. Took me a few years to finally get around to getting it, but when I realized how often I was borrowing my friend's...


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## TraprMike (Jul 7, 2010)

LucidResq said:


> Petroleum jelly soaked cotton balls in a ziploc bag, lots of waterproof matches, and paracord.


FTW !!! 
do you realize how hard it is to find cotton balls made out of cotton?? and not that poly junk??


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## Cake (Jul 7, 2010)

awesome awesome info, thanks for the feedback!  

what I'm gathering is that I'm probably thinking I'm going to need more than what I'd really use.  Also, that even as a medic on a team, my priority is not patient care, but remains search and rescue.  From whatelse you're saying is that the med supplies will vary from scenario and patient. 


So other than extended overnighters or winter nights, what about a bag like this???










http://www.dakine.com/sport-packs/bike/nomad/

1100 cubic in, 3l water bladder, and I especially like the outer pocket that zips out- seems like just the right size and set up for med supplies.  

I'm kinda in the market for a "stay and play" hydration pack, and I was about to get the mule, but I like the set up of the nomad pack a little better.  

I'm still going to carry my pocket facemask.  Its light enough where it doesnt bother me, and its just one of those things I would rather have and not need than need and not have.  If that super slim possibility occurs where I'd actually need one, I don't wanna be that guy without it.  But I guess we can rule out occlusive dressings, eh?  The military bandages spoken of are the kind with the padded dressing in the middle with a tail on each side?

Lucid- The cottonballs in jelly are my favorite starter as well.  I've kept mine in pill containers, but it gets awfully gooey digging the bottom ones out.  Ziplock bag ftw again! I use a flint and steel though-  Waterproof matches for me in the past have not been so waterproof....    What's so special about the jetboil?  I see ads for it all the time and it just looks like a buncha marketing?  And paracord is always in my pack 


mtnresq- check out geartrade.com for some really good prices.  I got a tent from them which was listed as like new condition.  It had a hole in it about the size of an 10ga needle, I let them know, and they refunded my shipping charge to "cover" a patch kit.  I've gotten a few things from there.


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## Cake (Jul 7, 2010)

TraprMike said:


> FTW !!!
> do you realize how hard it is to find cotton balls made out of cotton?? and not that poly junk??



ive always used store brand


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## yowzer (Jul 7, 2010)

It's easy to tell who's new to SAR; they're always way overpacked for the first few missions. It doesn't take long for our new folk to learn that they don't need to haul a full 48 hour pack like they have to use in training on a quick trip a few miles up a trail to bring back somebody with a twisted ankle. A good exercise once you've worked out what you want to carry in a light 24 hour pack: Take it on an overnight trip. Make sure you can spend the night and have adequate food and can replenish water as needed.

My usual summer pack is a giant lumbar pack meant for wildland fire. In the winter when I'm carrying more stuff, I'll use a regular backpack. The wildland pack is low-profile, which is nice when going cross-country, and can support a lot of weight comfortably for those times when I end up with a rope or rigging kit.

Personally, the most important pieces of medical gear to carry is a foam pad like a Thermarest Ridgeway and a bunch of cravats (You can make them from old sheets to get bigger and sturdier ones than the always too small prepackaged ones). Fold it over a few times to make it rigid, cut it to size, and you can splint almost anything. 

The other thing I end up using on almost every evacuation is a ~25 foot length of 1 inch climbing webbing. Even though there's some in our litters, there always seems to be a need for more: taglines, making a stirrup to help support the subject's good leg when going downhill, etc.


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## TraprMike (Jul 7, 2010)

Cake said:


> ive always used store brand




find some REAL cotton and see how nicely the jelly blends into the ball.. it's like heaven..


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## redcrossemt (Jul 8, 2010)

I like the Kigali packs if you can find them. I think Remote Medical has them, but there are some other cheaper suppliers (where I got my last one from a while back).

I second most of what's above. Pack light! Everything should have 2 or more uses. Mission-specific planning is key. When we do SAR, we do have a lot of equipment back at base camp if we need it, but I don't carry much of anything in with me; except for bandaids, personal OTCs, and survival gear. 

If my SAR agency were ALS, I'd probably carry some morphine and a few select meds like epinephrine and albuterol. Also depends on your climate - maybe PO meds for HAPE/HACE would be a good idea. All depends on what your mission profiles are like (injuries/illnesses/missing persons, altitude/climate/terrain, evacuation distances, etc).


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