# Paramedic programs in San Diego



## Ediron (Jun 12, 2010)

does anyone recommend a really good medic school
and how many days a week ?
how long is the course?


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## thegreypilgrim (Jun 12, 2010)

Palomar Community College

Southwestern College

Stay away from NCTI.


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## sdadam (Jun 12, 2010)

There are four programs:

Palomar and Southwestern as mentioned above, as well as NCTI and EMSTA. Google for more information.

They range from full time at EMSTA to two days a week at NCTI.

Southwestern is probably the best in the county right now, followed by palomar and the private programs.

If you have specific questions let me know, I have been in classes at, taught at, or had friends go through all of these programs, but you will have to be more specific about what you want to know. Please do your research first, and don't ask things that are easily accessible on their websites.


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## Sandog (Jun 13, 2010)

thegreypilgrim said:


> Palomar Community College
> 
> Southwestern College
> 
> Stay away from NCTI.



What exactly is wrong with NCTI? They are accredited and offer an AA degree program. Just curious as to why you say stay away, any direct experience or just speaking from hearsay?

BTW, I am currently attending Southwestern. FYI Miramar college offers EMT-B level courses but not EMT-P.


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## beandip4all (Jun 13, 2010)

Sandog said:


> What exactly is wrong with NCTI? They are accredited and offer an AA degree program. Just curious as to why you say stay away, any direct experience or just speaking from hearsay?



I would say overall bad word of mouth about the program.  High fail rate, looked down upon by other professionals as a "pulse and a patch" churn em out kind of program.  Does that make sense? 

The fact that they let in EMT-Bs with NO work experience really works against them from a credibility perspective.  

Good luck!


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## TransportJockey (Jun 13, 2010)

beandip4all said:


> I would say overall bad word of mouth about the program.  High fail rate, looked down upon by other professionals as a "pulse and a patch" churn em out kind of program.  Does that make sense?
> 
> The fact that they let in EMT-Bs with NO work experience really works against them from a credibility perspective.
> 
> Good luck!



The no experience thing might work against them in CA, but getting into a medic program with no experience is common in the rest of the country and not looked down upon.


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## thegreypilgrim (Jun 13, 2010)

Sandog said:


> What exactly is wrong with NCTI? They are accredited and offer an AA degree program. Just curious as to why you say stay away, any direct experience or just speaking from hearsay?


Knowledge of what the school is, and what it's really for which certainly isn't education. The purpose of NCTI is to provide AMR with a never ending stream of cheap labor by basically selling medic and EMT patches to a bunch of impressionable young kids who've been lead to believe they'll be saving the world every day with said patches. 

It's really not a legitimate school, but a degree mill (that in this case can't even sell you a "degree"). Do their credits transfer anywhere? No. And how could a class like, "Everything you need to know about A&P in 1 easy week" reasonably transfer anywhere? The quality of education received there reflects this as well. I've worked with or otherwise been around plenty of NCTI graduates and while some of them defied the laws of nature and got more out of than was even being offered, most others leave much to be desired. Not only is the education lacking, but a lot of them have been cultured into the "I'm a complete badass" mindset that permeates EMS, especially here in the Southern California area.


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## MusicMedic (Jun 14, 2010)

How is NCTI a mill when the Medic program is a year long? 
also (at least the one in riverside) requires A&P, and passing the HOBIT entrance exam (which isnt much i know)
im planning on going to NCTI in riverside, because i cant afford to go Full time to a medic program (i have bills to pay and i need to work) 
i belive NCTI has a bad wrap because its owned by AMR

and AMR=Evil Corp right?


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## Sandog (Jun 14, 2010)

thegreypilgrim said:


> Knowledge of what the school is, and what it's really for which certainly isn't education. The purpose of NCTI is to provide AMR with a never ending stream of cheap labor by basically selling medic and EMT patches to a bunch of impressionable young kids who've been lead to believe they'll be saving the world every day with said patches.
> 
> It's really not a legitimate school, but a degree mill (that in this case can't even sell you a "degree"). Do their credits transfer anywhere? No. And how could a class like, "Everything you need to know about A&P in 1 easy week" reasonably transfer anywhere? The quality of education received there reflects this as well. I've worked with or otherwise been around plenty of NCTI graduates and while some of them defied the laws of nature and got more out of than was even being offered, most others leave much to be desired. Not only is the education lacking, but a lot of them have been cultured into the "I'm a complete badass" mindset that permeates EMS, especially here in the Southern California area.



I see your point and I agree that a one week A&P course is a joke but, in my case I have taken a single semester A&P course as well as the 2 semester A&P classes. I have enough semester hours and pre-reqs to enter SDSU BSN program, so I really do not care if the credits transfer or not, only getting the cert. My plan is this; Complete the EMT-B class at SWC and then work in the field for awhile, if I like it as a career then I plan to expedite getting my training through NCTI. After all, certified is certified.
Quite frankly, I am getting school burnout.


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## thegreypilgrim (Jun 14, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> How is NCTI a mill when the Medic program is a year long?
> also (at least the one in riverside) requires A&P, and passing the HOBIT entrance exam (which isnt much i know)


There's no hard and fast rule which says medic mills have to be less than a more standard length of time. What makes it a mill is the nature of the coursework and educational model in place there. For these proprietary schools, essentially if your check clears you're good to go...it's really hard to "fail" out of said places, and when you compare pass-rates for the course versus the NREMT exam certain questions are raised. You can even get a "private contractor" to be your field internship preceptor at NCTI who can be virtually anyone. A guy I work with is finishing up at NCTI-Riverside and he got his father's good friend at San Bernardino County Fire to be his preceptor...conflict of interest? How fair is that for all the other paramedic students who are at the mercy of their college's _official_ contracted agencies?


> im planning on going to NCTI in riverside, because i cant afford to go Full time to a medic program (i have bills to pay and i need to work)


I'm sorry, you can't afford to go to a full-time community college based paramedic program, but you can afford NCTI's $9-10,000 tuition? If I'm not mistaken, Crafton Hills has a part-time program and is surely less expensive than NCTI. You may also want to look into Saddleback (OC), Palomar (SD), and Southwestern (SD). If you must go to NCTI, take _real_, legitimate Anatomy and Physiology (one semester each) classes from a community college before hand.



> i belive NCTI has a bad wrap because its owned by AMR
> 
> and AMR=Evil Corp right?


Well, that's certainly part of it; but, the appropriateness of for-profit industry having a role in EMS and healthcare is another debate altogether.


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## thegreypilgrim (Jun 14, 2010)

Sandog said:


> I see your point and I agree that a one week A&P course is a joke but, in my case I have taken a single semester A&P course as well as the 2 semester A&P classes. I have enough semester hours and pre-reqs to enter SDSU BSN program, so I really do not care if the credits transfer or not, only getting the cert. My plan is this; Complete the EMT-B class at SWC and then work in the field for awhile, if I like it as a career then I plan to expedite getting my training through NCTI. After all, certified is certified.
> Quite frankly, I am getting school burnout.


Of course, the needs and backgrounds of each student is going to vary and its always unclear how generalizations apply to individuals. I also understand "school burnout" as I've been there myself - sometimes you just want to get on with your life already. Nothing wrong with that. Having said that, do you think it's a good idea if you are indeed burnt out on school to want to go into the healthcare field? You may have an extensive background in the life sciences, but paramedic school is much more than just base A&P. There's also all the pathological elements to deal with along with pharmacology, cardiology, physical assessment/diagnostics, medico-legal issues, and operational features to take into account as well. Why sell yourself (and your patients) short by trying to rush through all that as soon as possible? I had a classmate who was a PhD candidate in zoology (ornithology) before suddenly changing gears and going to EMT & paramedic school and even he had a hard time with the shear breadth (let alone depth) of all of it. 

If you're burnt out on school, take some time off. Go work as an EMT or whatever, see if you even like it. Believe me, after a few months of being an EMT and all the nonsense involved with that, you'll be ready to go back to school. Certified may indeed be certified as far as state law and potential employers are concerned, but in actual practice it's not really so uniform.


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## MusicMedic (Jun 14, 2010)

thegreypilgrim said:


> I'm sorry, you can't afford to go to a full-time community college based paramedic program, but you can afford NCTI's $9-10,000 tuition? If I'm not mistaken, Crafton Hills has a part-time program and is surely less expensive than NCTI. You may also want to look into Saddleback (OC), Palomar (SD), and Southwestern (SD). If you must go to NCTI, take _real_, legitimate Anatomy and Physiology (one semester each) classes from a community college before hand.
> 
> .




well its not the fact i cant afford the tuition, its more of the fact i cant quit working all together for 6 months (or how ever long the program is) i have bills to pay, i unfortunetly cant put them on hold while i go to school.. 
i have been looking at Crafton hills, but i wont have my A&P done by their deadline. Saddleback college doesn't have a Program till April of next year, and i believe its full time.. like i said before i can only go part time (unless i win the lotto or find a briefcase full of cash)  

but i am taking A&P fall semester at saddleback for which i am pretty excited for it though, i feel like i know soo little as an EMT


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## terrible one (Jun 14, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> i have been looking at Crafton hills, but i wont have my A&P done by their deadline.



Why are you in such a hurry? What's going to change if you wait an extra semester/year?


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## MusicMedic (Jun 14, 2010)

terrible one said:


> Why are you in such a hurry? What's going to change if you wait an extra semester/year?



i wanna get on with it as soon as possible... the sooner the better


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## terrible one (Jun 15, 2010)

Education shouldn't be a race. 
There are no medic jobs in SoCal now, it will most likely won't change in the next few years anyway


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## MusicMedic (Jun 15, 2010)

terrible one said:


> Education shouldn't be a race.
> There are no medic jobs in SoCal now, it will most likely won't change in the next few years anyway



i know education isnt a race, but i want to further my education, i feel like i dont know enough as an EMT, and it really bothers me. 
Hall Ambulance up in Kern County is looking for medics, as im sure a few other places are


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## MrBrown (Jun 15, 2010)

Look at it this way - our Paramedic level (sub ALS) takes three to four years, Intensive Care Paramedic (ALS) is around six .... still feel in such a hurry? 

As for school burnout man I have been there, done that its like so good to just get the hell out of there already and on with doing it in the real world.

Having said that, now that I am in the real world I can appreciate the 2000% better, more aware and better at critical thinking a good, comprehensive education has made me.

If I rushed through everything in a year instead of the 3 1/2 it took me I think the result wouold not have been as good.

Now which way do I turn the thingy to get oxygen again?


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## Sandog (Jun 15, 2010)

> As for school burnout man I have been there, done that its like so good to just get the hell out of there already and on with doing it in the real world.



I assume you are referring to my post here. If you go back and read my post, you will see that I have spent much time in school. I also spent 8 years in the US military, run a business, so I have not just fallen off a turnip truck.

For me, school is just an end to a means, and you fellas really should not take life so seriously, and I am serious. Just be happy in whatever you do. At this point I have lived a half century and am exploring new worlds and I desire to do something that matters before my time runs out.


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## MrBrown (Jun 15, 2010)

I fell under a turnip truck and a bunch of guys dressed in orange jumpsuits swanned in on a helicopter and gave me drugs .... it gets a little hazy after that, but that probably has something to do with the drugs   

By school burnout I mean basically you get tired of learning about something and want to get out into the real world and apply it.

Like you, I've been around a few years and worked before setting out and doing the Degree.

Good luck mate.


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## thegreypilgrim (Jun 15, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> well its not the fact i cant afford the tuition, its more of the fact i cant quit working all together for 6 months (or how ever long the program is) i have bills to pay, i unfortunetly cant put them on hold while i go to school..
> i have been looking at Crafton hills, but i wont have my A&P done by their deadline. Saddleback college doesn't have a Program till April of next year, and i believe its full time.. like i said before i can only go part time (unless i win the lotto or find a briefcase full of cash)


I understand the financial constraints, believe me I do. However, like Terrible_One said there really is no need to want to rush this. I know being an EMT sucks, and you feel like you have no idea what's going on, but honestly I don't think local paramedic schools should even be accepting new students right now. There's just an absolute surplus of both medics and EMTs and no money for public agencies to justify hiring anyone new, thus, people aren't leaving private ambulance companies (which are taking advantage of the economic stagnation by using it as justification to not hire anyone either and cut back on existing personnel...it's all about maximizing profits for them).

There are no jobs right now, not even with the silly IFT companies like the one I work for. Things are not likely to change any time soon either unless you leave the area (like _really_ leave it and go to another state or move up to northern California).



> but i am taking A&P fall semester at saddleback for which i am pretty excited for it though, i feel like i know soo little as an EMT


Ok good, focus on doing well in those courses right now and take other science classes as well (chemistry, biology, micro, psych, etc.) while waiting for the next application period for Crafton. You'll be much happier doing that than forking over your hard earned money to NCTI only to get half the education you would've gotten at somewhere like Crafton.


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## jgmedic (Jun 16, 2010)

MusicMedic said:


> well its not the fact i cant afford the tuition, its more of the fact i cant quit working all together for 6 months (or how ever long the program is) i have bills to pay, i unfortunetly cant put them on hold while i go to school..
> i have been looking at Crafton hills, but i wont have my A&P done by their deadline. Saddleback college doesn't have a Program till April of next year, and i believe its full time.. like i said before i can only go part time (unless i win the lotto or find a briefcase full of cash)
> 
> but i am taking A&P fall semester at saddleback for which i am pretty excited for it though, i feel like i know soo little as an EMT



Are you taking full-on A+P or "A+P for Paramedics"? I ask because I took the medic one and then got to re-take it when my non-Saddleback medic program required real A+P with a lab course.


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## MusicMedic (Jun 16, 2010)

jgmedic said:


> Are you taking full-on A+P or "A+P for Paramedics"? I ask because I took the medic one and then got to re-take it when my non-Saddleback medic program required real A+P with a lab course.



im gonna take the real A+P with the lab, because i eventually wanna have the pre reqs for nursing school


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## somePerson (Jul 13, 2010)

Don't be in a hurry to rush trough medic school. I finished at the end of last year, and there NO JOBS AT ALL in southern cali right now. Only more and more medics coming out and no jobs are opening up, so far my P card is just some pile of crap that takes up room in my wallet.


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## TommyGavin (Jan 18, 2011)

You guys are all trippin. Does it really matter where you get your Paramedic Education? I mean if you pass the National, you're a Certified Paramedic, regardless of who gave you or where you got your education. 

Did President Abe Lincoln go to a university?


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## jgmedic (Jan 18, 2011)

TommyGavin said:


> You guys are all trippin. Does it really matter where you get your Paramedic Education? I mean if you pass the National, you're a Certified Paramedic, regardless of who gave you or where you got your education.
> 
> Did President Abe Lincoln go to a university?



Yes, yes it does matter where you go to medic school.


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## socalmedic (Jan 18, 2011)

thegreypilgrim said:


> Stay away from NCTI.






thegreypilgrim said:


> ...What makes it a mill is the nature of the coursework and educational model in place there. For these proprietary schools, essentially if your check clears you're good to go...it's really hard to "fail" out of said places, and when you compare pass-rates for the course versus the NREMT exam certain questions are raised. You can even get a "private contractor" to be your field internship preceptor at NCTI who can be virtually anyone. A guy I work with is finishing up at NCTI-Riverside and he got his father's good friend at San Bernardino County Fire to be his preceptor...conflict of interest? How fair is that for all the other paramedic students who are at the mercy of their college's _official_ contracted agencies?



I went to NCTI-Riverside are you saying I am a bad medic?

I doubt you have had much experience with NCTI medics as riverside has graduated less than 300 in the last 5 years. yes you probably have run into a few, but there are plenty of :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty medics all over so cal, you can hardly point fingers.

as for their "graduation rate" and their "NREMT pass rate" they have no problem letting students go, they are on par with everyone else i have run into, except crafton hills they are a :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: to finish from what i hear. their NREMT pass rate is about 80% first try and 95% total. i would say that is damn good odds.

I can tell you that at the school level they are completely disconnected from AMR and have no influence from them. the majority of the instructors are knowledgeable and motivated to teach. as for your friend being precepted by his daddy's friend, I believe this to be wrong and should not be happening. the school probably does not know as EVE would not let this happen, he told them he wanted to go to RIV City and their EMS capt did the rest. other wise you go where they send you, i was Fortunate and had the best preceptor in the county, but i am biased. 

now on to the original question.

Palomar and Southwest both have good reputations, give them a shot. you should also look into Saddle Back if you are in the OC area. NCTI is new, class 2 i believe. they are located in Alvarado hospital, you will have PT rounds and shifts in the ER I believe, other than that i know nothing about them as they opened after I finished medic school in riverside.


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## TommyGavin (Jan 18, 2011)

Not really


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## Sandog (Jan 18, 2011)

Right now in So. Cal medic jobs are almost impossible to get. Your better off going the nursing route. SWC has a good ASN program.


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## Fish (Jan 19, 2011)

jtpaintball70 said:


> The no experience thing might work against them in CA, but getting into a medic program with no experience is common in the rest of the country and not looked down upon.




Yes


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## Fish (Jan 19, 2011)

TommyGavin said:


> You guys are all trippin. Does it really matter where you get your Paramedic Education? I mean if you pass the National, you're a Certified Paramedic, regardless of who gave you or where you got your education.
> 
> Did President Abe Lincoln go to a university?



Yes, yes it certainly does matter. Be a part of any services hiring process and see the difference between Medics who went to this school or that, or Medics who went to a 11-18 month long program and who went to a 5-6 month program, or a program with a poor reputation. The difference is they don't pass and don't get hired. The NREMTP exam is not a hard exam, and Most all Medics pass, 60% pass their first time, while most of the remaining 40% pass it their second or 3rd.


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## Fish (Jan 19, 2011)

Ediron said:


> does anyone recommend a really good medic school
> and how many days a week ?
> how long is the course?



I went to EMSTA, I thought it was a great school. And I have been very successful with the Education I recieved from them.(That being said, I was a very hard worker. I didn't party, I studied studied studied, and got nothing below a 90% on test) It is all what you put into it.


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## Monkey (Jan 20, 2011)

Fish said:


> ... *It is all what you put into it*.




Damn straight!

That's the problem I see with most students out there, they want it handed to them, don't want to put the effort into it. 

EMT-B's that are burnt out on BLS, usually turn into failed medic students, or generally poor medics.  ALS calls start with the BLS side and move up from there.  

you can go to Southwest, Palomar, EMSTA, NCTI, and get a good education. 

Look for the curriculum that fits YOU, not anyone else.  The hours at NCTI work best for you, jump on it!  The Mentor program at EMSTA suits you, go for it... YOU have to do the learning, pick the school that best fits YOUR needs.

For every medic student that fails out, there are a lot that just didn't put the time into study.  Regardless of where you go, you sell yourself to the devil for the time you're in school.  Any nutless monkey can pass the NREMT, but it is going to take a good student to be a good medic.

Talk to the graduates of the schools you're interested in, not the fails (they're not going to give you unbiased information most the time), and get information on things they felt the school exceeded in, and lacked in, and you'll make the right decision.

-S-


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## sdadam (Jan 23, 2011)

Don't listen to that guy fish, he sounds shady.


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## Fish (Jan 23, 2011)

sdadam said:


> Don't listen to that guy fish, he sounds shady.



Ha, you must know me


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