# Video shows horseplay in EMT Lakewood EMS vehicle



## MMiz (Mar 15, 2009)

*Video shows horseplay in EMT Lakewood EMS vehicle*

Township officials are reviewing a video clip posted on the Internet that apparently shows an ambulance and another emergency medical service vehicle being used for joyrides through a snow-covered parking lot.

The clip, posted on the car-enthusiast Web site streetfire.net and later taken down, is a little more than three minutes long and appears to depict the two vehicles purposely being driven erratically in the parking lot of the BlueClaws stadium at Cedar Bridge and New Hampshire avenues during a heavy snowstorm.

Read more and watch video!


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## karaya (Mar 15, 2009)

And the hits just keep on rolling...   :glare:


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## medic417 (Mar 15, 2009)

All involved should be fired immediatly and state should yank their certifications.


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## JPINFV (Mar 15, 2009)

Full video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-936Q5nUB5M


These are three people who need to lose their license.

Office of Emergency Medical Services
    New Jersey Department of Health and Senior Services
    P.O. Box 360
    Trenton, NJ 08625-0360

If you wish to file a complaint, you may contact OEMS at (609) 633-7777, Monday through Friday, from 9:00 a.m. until 5:00 p.m. Situations that may warrant the filing of a complaint include, but are not limited to, the following:

    * *Unprofessional *and/or unlawful *conduct *or care rendered by a certified EMT-Basic or EMT-Paramedic;
    * The rendering of care by an individual representing himself/herself as a certified EMT-Basic or EMT-Paramedic, when in fact that individual is not certified;
    * Unprofessional and/or unlawful care rendered by a licensed MAV, BLS or ALS service provider, including unfit vehicles; and/or
    * The rendering of services by an unlicensed MAV, BLS or ALS service provider (excluding volunteer ambulance, rescue and first aid squads)


http://www.state.nj.us/health/ems/legal.shtml


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## Veneficus (Mar 15, 2009)

Perhaps it was a hazardous weather EVOC course


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## JPINFV (Mar 15, 2009)

Evoc course with a whole 3 people (including instructor?) and a way too happy Chinese Fire Drill at 1:28 on the video?


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## Veneficus (Mar 15, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Evoc course with a whole 3 people (including instructor?) and a way too happy Chinese Fire Drill at 1:28 on the video?



I was trying to be funny


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## Juxel (Mar 15, 2009)

We do that in the parking lot at our garage in the winter with 2 people (driving instructor and employee).  It's quite fun but also teaches you a lot.  Then again we live in Minnesota where our two seasons are Winter and road construction, you always have adverse driving conditions.


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## Sasha (Mar 15, 2009)

Veneficus said:


> I was trying to be funny



I thought it was funny :]


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## medic417 (Mar 15, 2009)




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## PapaBear434 (Mar 15, 2009)

To play Devil's advocate:

When I lived in Michigan, I made a ritual out of the first snow and ice of the season.  I'd go find an empty lot, and purposefully spin myself out a couple of times.  You know, to get a feel for it again after not doing it all year.  That way, should I spin out for real, I wouldn't panic.  

Knowing how to do it in an emergency vehicle seems like a good idea, personally, as we are usually driving fast in all sorts of conditions.  Going out and doing practicing in an empty lot so they don't do slamming into the back of some minivan on the street.

Not saying that they didn't have an amazingly fun time at it, and they were probably doing it for non-educational purposes (ie: being idiots with public vehicles).  But I don't think the idea should be thrown out altogether.


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## MMiz (Mar 15, 2009)

PapaBear434 said:


> To play Devil's advocate:
> 
> When I lived in Michigan, I made a ritual out of the first snow and ice of the season.  I'd go find an empty lot, and purposefully spin myself out a couple of times.  You know, to get a feel for it again after not doing it all year.  That way, should I spin out for real, I wouldn't panic.
> 
> ...


As someone from Michigan, I did the same thing all the time in my *personal vehicle*.  Doing it in a parking lot, with the unit lit up, with obstacles nearby, *while someone is taping* is just plain stupidity.


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## Sasha (Mar 15, 2009)

At least they were doing it on a parking lot and not a public road or something. 

An IFT company in the area fired an EMT and suspended a medic. There is a railroad outside CFR Hospital that if you go over fast enough you get a little "air" to the ambulance. They were caught going back and forth over it get the truck a little airborne because they were bored. This is on a public, fairly busy road.

Edit: NOT condoning it. Just saying at least they were smart enough for that. I agree, fire them in a heart beat.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 15, 2009)

And the results of actions like this lead to comments like these...works wonders for image and professionalism.  :wacko:

http://www.kidrock.com/news/2009/03/13/ambulance-seen-doing-donuts-to-kid-rock/


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 15, 2009)

medic417 said:


> All involved should be fired immediatly and state should yank their certifications.



Amazing, I tell my employees to do such action. In fact it is recommended in many texts and in EVOC. To become familiar within the units in snow, ice, etc. Much better in a well controlled environment such as an empty parking lot then on the highway. Also, much rather not be paying for damage or even worse a loss of life or injury. 

So we much rather read where they crash and then we would say.. they should had been prepared. What may interpret as horse play, I may be able to justify as getting prepared for defensive driving. Yes, the public does not understand our predicament and of course will be the first to have an outcry about delayed responses. 

R/r 911


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## PapaBear434 (Mar 15, 2009)

MMiz said:


> As someone from Michigan, I did the same thing all the time in my *personal vehicle*.  Doing it in a parking lot, with the unit lit up, with obstacles nearby, *while someone is taping* is just plain stupidity.



Ok, but you know as well as I do that the ambulance handles a lot differently than your personal vehicle.  The thing handles like a gigantic can of Spam on wheels, very top-heavy, and extremely wide.  Knowing how IT deals with ice and snow doesn't seem like a bad idea.  And having the lights on seems like a safe thing to do, as drawing attention is exactly what you WANT.  Last thing you want is someone wandering out into the lot while you are purposefully spinning around.

And I can speak from experience when I say those police interceptor vehicles run a lot differently too.  Lot more power, and made for maneuverability and thus tend to be very... touchy.  Practice makes perfect, after all.



Ridryder911 said:


> Amazing, I tell my employees to do such action. In fact it is recommended in many texts and in EVOC. To become familiar within the units in snow, ice, etc. Much better in a well controlled environment such as an empty parking lot then on the highway. Also, much rather not be paying for damage or even worse a loss of life or injury.
> 
> So we much rather read where they crash and then we would say.. they should had been prepared. What may interpret as horse play, I may be able to justify as getting prepared for defensive driving. Yes, the public does not understand our predicament and of course will be the first to have an outcry about delayed responses.
> 
> R/r 911



Here here!  It's rare when you and I agree on something.  

Like I said, I'm sure those guys were having a great time and probably laughing their asses off.  But whether it was an official training exercise or just goofing off, they WERE learning to handle their vehicle in inclement weather.  It's something rather important, in my view.


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## JPINFV (Mar 15, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Amazing, I tell my employees to do such action. In fact it is recommended in many texts and in EVOC. To become familiar within the units in snow, ice, etc. Much better in a well controlled environment such as an empty parking lot then on the highway. Also, much rather not be paying for damage or even worse a loss of life or injury.
> 
> So we much rather read where they crash and then we would say.. they should had been prepared. What may interpret as horse play, I may be able to justify as getting prepared for defensive driving. Yes, the public does not understand our predicament and of course will be the first to have an outcry about delayed responses.
> 
> R/r 911



How many EVOC lessons involve 3 people at night?


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## JPINFV (Mar 15, 2009)

PapaBear434 said:


> Ok, but you know as well as I do that the ambulance handles a lot differently than your personal vehicle.  The thing handles like a gigantic can of Spam on wheels, very top-heavy, and extremely wide.  Knowing how IT deals with ice and snow doesn't seem like a bad idea.  And having the lights on seems like a safe thing to do, as drawing attention is exactly what you WANT.  Last thing you want is someone wandering out into the lot while you are purposefully spinning around.



...then why was the box truck sitting around most of the time with the chase car doing most of the spinning. The light bar doesn't add that much weight.


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## JPINFV (Mar 15, 2009)

MMiz said:


> As someone from Michigan, I did the same thing all the time in my *personal vehicle*.  Doing it in a parking lot, with the unit lit up, with obstacles nearby, *while someone is taping* is just plain stupidity.


To be fair, it doesn't sound like the people taping knew who was in the "cop car." It wasn't until halfway through that the person taping it was informed that it was an EMS car.


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## PapaBear434 (Mar 15, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> ...then why was the box truck sitting around most of the time with the chase car doing most of the spinning. The light bar doesn't add that much weight.



A lot more powerful, however.  

I'm just saying, on the scale of things they could do to screw around while bored, this is pretty low on the totem pole and actually could have beneficial side effects.


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## Sasha (Mar 15, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> ...then why was the box truck sitting around most of the time with the chase car doing most of the spinning. The light bar doesn't add that much weight.



Maybe they were showing "What not to do"?


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## MMiz (Mar 15, 2009)

This video makes EMS look like a bunch of kids messing around.  You can't possibly argue otherwise.  The supposed "professionals" are acting like little kids throughout much of the video.

This story was carried by the Associated Press to news organizations all over the nation.  Thousands of online news outlets published the story, and many published the video.  *It was a stupid mistake and makes EMS look bad.*

It's the same reason why I wouldn't go out drinking at a bar right next to work, it just doesn't seem appropriate.  Sure most people drink, but it just doesn't look professional.  When I'm *at work, on work property, I act professional.  *I expect others to do the same, especially in EMS.


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## Buzz (Mar 15, 2009)

The way they did it was unprofessional.

Going to a vacant lot during horrible conditions and testing the vehicles handling on the other hand is just a good idea--as long as you don't get the rig stuck.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 15, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> How many EVOC lessons involve 3 people at night?



Probably should have more. Nothing like a little "black ice" to change things (especially my britches). When does the "bad" ones occur?

Okay, they were probably goofing off some. Guilty. Yet, with the new large trucks that most services has purchased almost everyone is agreement they do not handle ice and snow well. In point, we will no longer older any of the "larger" size due to this. Poor handling on slick (ice, rain, snow) and they get about half the gas mileage. Not to mention we can get the same size box for about $25k cheaper. 

I have a problem with video vigilante's. Sure, let's be professional; as most know that is my soap box, but as well I know to interest "night time" crews; you have to be flexible at times.


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## PapaBear434 (Mar 15, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> I have a problem with video vigilante's. Sure, let's be professional; as most know that is my soap box, but as well I know to interest "night time" crews; you have to be flexible at times.



On a particularly slow day shift during my trainee days, we went to the Dollar Store and got a couple loafs of bread.  We spent two hours feeding seagulls in a parking lot.  Getting them closer and closer to the point where we could wad up a slice into a tiny ball and try to peg them with it.  And scaring them with the air horn.

Boredom.  Not just for night shift anymore!  At least at night, I can sleep where there is nothing to do.


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## TheAfterAffect (Mar 16, 2009)

They were merely having fun and doing something stupid in a vacant lot, with no chance of endangering others. 


So what, they were spinning around in circles during a snow storm. As Rid said, its another way to prepare yourself how to drive. Was this their intention? Probably not, but none the less they had fun. You guys can all :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: and whine that they are not keeping a professional appearance all you want, but in the end they are just having fun and its being blown out of proportions. 

Soldiers do stupid :censored::censored::censored::censored: like this all the time, they film it and they post it, Once in a while some lunatic goes ape:censored::censored::censored::censored: that soldiers are messing around in Iraq or Afghanistan and not keeping their professional appearance. Well guess what, everyone needs a relief. Whether its Fire, EMS, Military, whatever.


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## Hockey (Mar 16, 2009)

When we did EVOC, they had us do it in a parking lot in the snow and an area they cleared, and sprayed down to show us ice.  How to accelerate, brake, turn, spin and recover and a few other things.  Honestly helped out a LOT.  

We were joking around saying put it in a spin and see if the best medic (who says never misses an IV) can still hit a vein 

But it doesn't look like they were training or practicing.


But of course, I have no leg to stand on since I guess I go P-1 on a transfer....supposedly....


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## Hockey (Mar 16, 2009)

TheAfterAffect said:


> They were merely having fun and doing something stupid in a vacant lot, with no chance of endangering others.
> 
> 
> So what, they were spinning around in circles during a snow storm. As Rid said, its another way to prepare yourself how to drive. Was this their intention? Probably not, but none the less they had fun. You guys can all :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: and whine that they are not keeping a professional appearance all you want, but in the end they are just having fun and its being blown out of proportions.
> ...



What are you talking about?  Your supposed to be perfect and never have fun?!?! Isn't that what some people say around here


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## Sasha (Mar 16, 2009)

PapaBear434 said:


> On a particularly slow day shift during my trainee days, we went to the Dollar Store and got a couple loafs of bread.  We spent two hours feeding seagulls in a parking lot.  Getting them closer and closer to the point where we could wad up a slice into a tiny ball and try to peg them with it.  And scaring them with the air horn.
> 
> Boredom.  Not just for night shift anymore!  At least at night, I can sleep where there is nothing to do.



For a second I felt bad for the poor birdies.. then I remembered birds are the devil.


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## Hockey (Mar 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> For a second I felt bad for the poor birdies.. then I remembered birds are the devil.



Especially those gulls!


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 16, 2009)

TheAfterAffect said:


> They were merely having fun and doing something stupid in a vacant lot, with no chance of endangering others.


Lack of danger does not make it right.  Fired.



> You guys can all :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: and whine that they are not keeping a professional appearance all you want, but in the end they are just having fun and its being blown out of proportions.


Nope.  I would strongly suspect that not keeping a professional appearance is a written policy violation there.  Fired. 



> Soldiers do stupid :censored::censored::censored::censored: like this all the time, they film it and they post it...


So you're saying that it's okay to be a moron as long as other people are morons too?  Sorry, moral equivocation is not a particularly successful defense when you violate the rules.  Fired.


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## jason152318 (Mar 22, 2009)

We can all sit here and say "oh they should all lose there jobs" but I am sure most of us are guilty of doing donuts in a parking lot.


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## medic417 (Mar 22, 2009)

jason152318 said:


> We can all sit here and say "oh they should all lose there jobs" but I am sure most of us are guilty of doing donuts in a parking lot.



I've eaten donuts in a parking lot but never done donuts in a parking lot.  Another losing point.  Unprofessional actions = fired.


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## jason152318 (Mar 22, 2009)

medic417 said:


> I've eaten donuts in a parking lot but never done donuts in a parking lot.  Another losing point.  Unprofessional actions = fired.



Maybe you should lead a less sheltered life. The next time it snows, try doing some donuts.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 22, 2009)

Not condoning what they did, but can all of you that have been in EMS for more then a week honestly say you've never done anything fun, or pulled a practical joke, using or being on company property?  Ever?


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 22, 2009)

jason152318 said:


> We can all sit here and say "oh they should all lose there jobs" but I am sure most of us are guilty of doing donuts in a parking lot.


Actually, I bet not.  Most of us don't live in the frozen tundra, with California, Texas, and Florida being the most heavily represented states on this forum.

I find this kind of, "but other people do it too!" equivocation to be disturbing, but not surprising.  People who assume that everyone else misbehaves just like they do is reminiscent of all the dopers out there who say "everyone" is smoking pot, or that "everyone" is driving drunk.  Cheaters assume that everyone is cheating on their spouse, and thieves believe that everyone else is stealing.  This personality flaw is one of the things we try to we try to discover and weed out in the pre-employment interview and psychological testing process.  But obviously, a lot of agencies don't do any such interview or testing, so we get what we see here.



Linuss said:


> Not condoning what they did, but can all of you that have been in EMS for more then a week honestly say you've never done anything fun, or pulled a practical joke, using or being on company property?  Ever?


Practical joke = horseplay and/or hazing, which is specifically prohibited by written policy in any professional EMS agency that is worth working for.  Fired.


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## jason152318 (Mar 22, 2009)

I wouldnt recomend anyone doing donuts in an ambulance though. You might be asking for trouble. They are a little too top heavy for that type of stuff.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 22, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Practical joke = horseplay and/or hazing, which is specifically prohibited by written policy in any professional EMS agency that is worth working for.  Fired.



Nice dodge, but didn't answer my question.


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## medic417 (Mar 22, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Not condoning what they did, but can all of you that have been in EMS for more then a week honestly say you've never done anything fun, or pulled a practical joke, using or being on company property?  Ever?



I am on and use company property daily what is your point with that?  I am being paid to work not play practical jokes.  I do have fun talking with my fellow professionals.


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## BLSBoy (Mar 22, 2009)

TheAfterAffect said:


> They were merely having fun and doing something stupid in a vacant lot, with no chance of endangering others.


Really? Within the first 30 seconds, the ambulance (I'm not even sure it IS an ambulance, since real ones require 2 EMTs). You are right. It was stupid. 




TheAfterAffect said:


> So what, they were spinning around in circles during a snow storm. As Rid said, its another way to prepare yourself how to drive. Was this their intention? Probably not, but none the less they had fun. You guys can all :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: and whine that they are not keeping a professional appearance all you want, but in the end they are just having fun and its being blown out of proportions.
> 
> Soldiers do stupid :censored::censored::censored::censored: like this all the time, they film it and they post it, Once in a while some lunatic goes ape:censored::censored::censored::censored: that soldiers are messing around in Iraq or Afghanistan and not keeping their professional appearance. Well guess what, everyone needs a relief. Whether its Fire, EMS, Military, whatever.



Soldiers are overseas, away from loved ones for MONTHS at a time. 
No booze, no sex, no relaxing. 
These are EMTs or less ****ing around. The ends to _not_ justify the means.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Nice dodge, but didn't answer my question.


Sorry.  I didn't mean to dodge the question.  I simply found the greater point more relevant and important than an examination of my personal background, which is wholly irrelevant to any discussion of what is proper in EMS today.

Yes, I engaged in horseplay and practical jokes early in my career.  However, I grew up.  And that occurred probably before you were born.  This is a new era in EMS.  It's no longer just a job for immature kids at the funeral home with no education.  Regardless of any mistakes I have made in my professional career, it does not justify the allowance of such conduct to be continued in our profession.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 23, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Yes, I engaged in horseplay and practical jokes early in my career.





Thank you for finally answering my question and proving my point.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Thank you for finally answering my question and proving my point.


Which is what?


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## Shishkabob (Mar 23, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Which is what?



Everyone goofs off in EMS.  Why castrate them?


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Everyone goofs off in EMS. Why castrate them?


Seriously, after all the intelligent discussion in this thread, still the best you can come up with is "well, everyone ele does it"?

That's not a point.  You didn't make a "point".  All you made was a rhetorical statement.

 How old are you?


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## JPINFV (Mar 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Everyone goofs off in EMS.  Why castrate them?



So if you were in Germany during the 1930's, it would be cool to commit genocide?


Just checking, Godwin's Law dictates that this thread is over now, right?


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## Shishkabob (Mar 23, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Seriously, after all the intelligent discussion in this thread, still the best you can come up with is "well, everyone ele does it"?
> 
> That's not a point.  You didn't make a "point".  All you made was a rhetorical statement.
> 
> How old are you?




All intelligent conversation went out with your post right there bud. I'm obviously old enough to not act immature towards others in a discussion. 

My points reiterated for you;  

1. I stated I DO NOT condone their actions. I don't know how to better phrase that. 

2.  I asked why them?  Why the big uproar when we've seen worse?

3.  "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"


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## BLSBoy (Mar 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Everyone goofs off in EMS.  Why castrate them?



There is a difference between practical jokes played inside quarters, or the inside of the ambulance, and being a complete and total jackass in public view, even endangering the public.

No mercy.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> 1. I stated I DO NOT condone their actions. I don't know how to better phrase that.


By failing to sanction against it, you _are_ condoning it.  And by condoning it, you are encouraging future occurrences of such behavior.



> 2.  I asked why them?  Why the big uproar when we've seen worse?


Read much?  Similar immaturity receives a similar uproar here.  Can you point to a similar thread where this has not happened?



> 3.  "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"


Let he who thinks bad behavior is justified by bad behavior get a clue.  Although I doubt you'll be in EMS long enough to ever see it, we're you ever to become a manager, you'd know the importance of discipline within a professional organization.  If you don't react decisively to this incident, then others know they too can act a fool and suffer no consequences.  No consequences = no rules.  No rules = personnel that will do worse than simply embarrass you.  It results in personnel who will defy you and land your agency in legal hot water sooner or later.  When they wreck the unit or hit someone with it, what are you going to tell the jury your policy on horseplay is?  "Don't make a big deal out of it"?

So what is your solution then?  How would you handle it?  And what exactly is the benefit to the organization of keeping these guys?  This is New Jersey, where they are all EMT-Bs, and hundreds more EMT-Bs are being cranked out every year to replace them.  They are of no overwhelming value to the organization.  And if you replace a few of them, their replacements will better understand the importance of maturity and discipline in the profession.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 23, 2009)

My God AJ, grow up.

A ) I'm 20, and already am a manager at my other job.  Don't you dare try to take a condescending tone to me, and lecture me on maturity.

B )  Don't ever attempt to think you know me, as you clearly do not.

C ) I didn't post in any of my responses that I am against terrorist.  Does that mean I sanction terrorism?  No.  

I wrote "I don't condone".  Now, since you've missed it the first 2 times, I'll do it again.  I don't condone what they did.  Not condoning something means you don't agree with it.  Just by the mere fact of me saying I don't condone something should instantly make "He's not for what they did" pop in your brain.  I know you're an educated man, so please show it. 


I generally shouldn't have to include each and every little detail when writing a post to get my ideas across.











If I say I'm not for something, 99.99999% of the time, that means I'm against it.




And I now feel a thread lock and warning PM coming on.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 24, 2009)

Linuss said:


> If I say I'm not for something, 99.99999% of the time, that means I'm against it.


But not enough "against it" to do anything about it?

Now who's dodging?


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## Shishkabob (Mar 24, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> But not enough "against it" to do anything about it?
> 
> Now who's dodging?




I don't think what they did warrants being fired, plain and simple.  There are many more avenues of punishment that can be taken that doesn't include screwing over their families.


Yes, they should be punished, *NO* they should not be fired.




And you're still the one dodging.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 24, 2009)

I answered your questions very specifically and honestly.  I also addressed exactly how I would discipline.

You have done neither.  Your generalities are not management.

So Mr. Manager, exactly how are you going to discipline these lamewads in a way that makes a meaningful and lasting impression on them and the rest of your organization?


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## reaper (Mar 24, 2009)

Ok, and if they would have totaled $150k worth of vehicles, who was going to pay for them?

Firing is the best they can hope for. They had better hope that they are not blackballed in the whole area!

Stupidity and immaturity breeds ignorance!!!!!!!!!!


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 24, 2009)

reaper said:


> Stupidity and immaturity breeds ignorance!!!!!!!!!!


Welcome to New Jersey.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 24, 2009)

reaper said:


> Ok, and if they would have totaled $150k worth of vehicles, who was going to pay for them?


  If any actual damage or harm was to be done, I'd be one of the first to say fire, but fact is, none was.  Stupid is stupid, but stupid (sadly)isn't fire able in many states.



AJ, I'm done with you as you obviously cannot have a grownup conversation without trying to degrade your opponent in some fashion.  Good day.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 24, 2009)

Linuss said:


> AJ, I'm done with you as you obviously cannot have a grownup conversation without trying to degrade your opponent in some fashion.  Good day.


Whatever, dude.  Run away and play the victim if you like.  But I just re-read this entire exchange to find out where I have done any degrading, and found nothing of the sort.  If you're not up to an intelligent professional conversation, at least be man enough to admit it instead of trying to project your inadequacies on others.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 24, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> *I just re-read this entire exchange to find out where I have done any degrading, and found nothing of the sort. *








AJ Hidell said:


> So Mr. Manager





AJ Hidell said:


> If you're not up to an intelligent professional conversation, at least be man enough to admit it instead of trying to project your inadequacies on others.





AJ Hidell said:


> How old are you?






Take your own advice.


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## reaper (Mar 24, 2009)

Linuss said:


> If any actual damage or harm was to be done, I'd be one of the first to say fire, but fact is, none was.  Stupid is stupid, but stupid (sadly)isn't fire able in many states.
> .



So, because they got lucky and did not wreack a vehicle, it is ok? Their punishment should be termination, period.

Yes, stupidity is a valid reason for termination in any state. Most people that are terminated, have been for acts of stupidity!

I am sure when this video was watched by their insurance company, that the rates went through the roof!


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