# Pets at work



## gradygirl (Jul 11, 2008)

I for some reason just remembered how one of our supervisors used to bring in her Rottweiler to work once in a while. (Supers are in fly cars, obviously, so no patients actually came in contact with the dog.) And, when I first got my cat (he was ~8wks old at the time) everyone-even a couple supers-said that I should bring him to work with me one day. I never did, but it made me wonder how often people thought about doing that. And wouldn't it make sense that pets shouldn't be allowed at work? (Cuz I'm sorry, if I were hurt, I don't think I'd want a Great Dane bounding up to me out of the truck.)


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## BossyCow (Jul 11, 2008)

TCERT1987 said:


> I for some reason just remembered how one of our supervisors used to bring in her Rottweiler to work once in a while. (Supers are in fly cars, obviously, so no patients actually came in contact with the dog.) And, when I first got my cat (he was ~8wks old at the time) everyone-even a couple supers-said that I should bring him to work with me one day. I never did, but it made me wonder how often people thought about doing that. And wouldn't it make sense that pets shouldn't be allowed at work? (Cuz I'm sorry, if I were hurt, I don't think I'd want a Great Dane bounding up to me out of the truck.)



This is a pet peeve (no pun intended) of mine. I have animals. I love my animals. But they are not people and should not be treated as such. 

I think bringing animals to the workplace is highly inappropriate. You cannot always tell how an animal will respond to each individual in a workplace. While exceptions are made for service animals, those are highly trained and highly socialized animals. But Fido or Fifi needs to be left at home.


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## akflightmedic (Jul 11, 2008)

Aside from the cleanliness aspect, absolutely not for several reasons.

You are a patient advocate, therefore you need to consider their health.

Some people are so allergic to cats and dogs, being around them for a minute could send them into anaphylaxsis.

Also, pet owners should ensure their uniforms are clean and free of animal hair and dander prior to going to work as some people could react to the mere presence on your shirt as well.

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, pet owners can be just as rude and inconsiderate as smokers. Be responsible out there.


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## Jon (Jul 11, 2008)

OK... first thing that came to mind was SirenHead - a column that used to be in the back of EMS Magazine. He sounded a lot like Rid... but harsher 

Check this out:
http://www.firehouse.com/ems/jems/sirenhead/02/may.html

The 2nd of the 2 questions starts:


> _Dear Sirenhead: Think you've heard it all? Well, check this out. I'm a shift manager at a busy EMS service and have been involved in EMS for 18 years. Today I had a new experience. An employee reported to work with a baby goat. She proudly displayed it on the kitchen table at headquarters. _<SNIP>


I'm allergic to dog/cats... I take allergy medicine, so I can deal wit the presence of animals. What about our patients? I think pets in rigs is a really bad idea... in station isn't much better. We had a full-time FF/EMT at my Fire Dept that was training an arson dog. He needed to train him every 4 hours, so he got permission from the chief to have the dog in station - that was cool.

Jon


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## VentMedic (Jul 11, 2008)

For the medical profession, pets should be left at home.

My uniforms stay out of reach of my pets to avoid allergens that would may my patients sensitive. 

My uniforms also stay out of reach of my pets after work.  I don't know what bacteria and viruses can be transmitted, along with any chance of scabies or lice, to my pets and home environment but I am not going to risk it.   These are also reasons I avoid close contact with people I care about at work. This especiallly includes small children.  Many times  I do have the advantage of knowing from lab work what bacteria I am around and that sometimes scares me. 

Just threw that last part in there since we just cultured a couple of ambulance stretchers from a company one hospital that just had a nasty C-Diff and a mutant Staph strain out break uses regularly for transfers.  Guess what was found on those stretchers?


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## mikeylikesit (Jul 11, 2008)

i don't take my dog to work because of reasons that have been mentioned above. Now, when a patient at the scene of say...an accident wants me to transport their pet with them to the hospital because it's their "baby" i still don't do it. too much liability.


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## Airwaygoddess (Jul 11, 2008)

*Fido and Fluffy.......*

I agree with everyone, the fuzzy kids need to stay at home........


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## akflightmedic (Jul 11, 2008)

mikeylikesit said:


> i don't take my dog to work because of reasons that have been mentioned above. Now, when a patient at the scene of say...an accident wants me to transport their pet with them to the hospital because it's their "baby" i still don't do it. too much liability.



You dont have a choice. It is an OSHA violation to transport animals in the ambulance. There are usually state laws governing this as well.

You call animal control or have the police officer deal with it. 

The only exception I have ever made to this rule was when a K9 was shot and the officers insisted that we drive the dog and his partner to the 24 hour emergency vet.


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## Jon (Jul 11, 2008)

When it is a police officer... yeah... the K9 is a cop - that is different.

What about service dogs?


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## akflightmedic (Jul 11, 2008)

No, even service dogs are not allowed.

The law states no, none, nada.  

You are supposed to arrange transport via police officer or animal control and of course give the pt a lot of compassion when explaining.


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## reaper (Jul 11, 2008)

Actually service dogs are allowed to be transported with the pt. This has been hashed out before and taken to court. Due to the disability act, OSHA has no say over this.

But, you do need to decon the unit, when you are done.


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## akflightmedic (Jul 11, 2008)

Well I will stand corrected.

Had not encountered this in many years...

All my OSHA training indicates it is and can be a case by case or service oriented decision.

Service dogs can be refused entrance if one of two conditions are met.

1.The animal would disrupt the service being provided. For example a dog in a restaraunt is allowed, however in the kitchen he is not.

2.If the animal would pose a direct life/health issue to others, it can be denied access.
Example would be an ambulance.

It goes on to clarify stating that the refusal of service or transport must be based on strong factors/evidence, and must not be based on stereotyping, or speculation. Basically if the dog looks healthy, he can go.

I would not want to be the one denying them..   ADA lawsuits suck.



This brings up an interesting tangent if anyone wants to bite.

What is the ambulance crew is severely allergic? Or what if one of the crew has an intense fear of dogs regardless of their behavior?

Right to refuse and wait for another unit?

"What ifs" are fun...


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## reaper (Jul 11, 2008)

I think in one of these cases I would explain it to the pt and arrange for alternate transport for the dog. Either in a patrol car or supervisor vehicle.


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## JPINFV (Jul 11, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> Just threw that last part in there since we just cultured a couple of ambulance stretchers from a company one hospital that just had a nasty C-Diff and a mutant Staph strain out break uses regularly for transfers.  Guess what was found on those stretchers?




Candy canes and chocolate mints?


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## mikeylikesit (Jul 11, 2008)

So do you take the injuried K-9 to the Hospital or make a special trip to the vet?


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## gradygirl (Jul 11, 2008)

Definitely to the vet. As much as you love your dog, you'd better not be taking it to a human doctor to get it checked out, that is unless your dog needs an MRI, then you can sneak it into Emory University's radiology suite after hours... I mean, yes, a K-9 officer is just that, an officer, but that doesn't mean an ER doc (or any other doc for that matter) knows better how to treat them than a vet does.


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## gradygirl (Jul 12, 2008)

Part two of service animal question: what if the service animal is not a dog? What if it is a miniature pony, a pig, or a monkey? (Yes, all of these animals are also being used as service animals!)


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## Ridryder911 (Jul 12, 2008)

TCERT1987 said:


> Part two of service animal question: what if the service animal is not a dog? What if it is a miniature pony, a pig, or a monkey? (Yes, all of these animals are also being used as service animals!)



Dinner? 

R/r 911


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## mikeylikesit (Jul 12, 2008)

on a side note i have seen a show where they are training monkeys to deliver tickets when people are pulled over by the police on traffic stops. this take the possibility of the cop getting hurt down greatly...but who wouldn't steal a trained monkey?


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## gradygirl (Jul 12, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Dinner?
> 
> R/r 911



I love you.


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## rhan101277 (Jul 12, 2008)

What kind of medical attention did you give to the dog while riding?  Did you just use a bulky dressing?  Did he/she end up ok?


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## reaper (Jul 12, 2008)

mikeylikesit said:


> on a side note i have seen a show where they are training monkeys to deliver tickets when people are pulled over by the police on traffic stops. this take the possibility of the cop getting hurt down greatly...but who wouldn't steal a trained monkey?



Next they will training them to provide medical care! Oh wait, That might be happening already!


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## RESQ_5_1 (Jul 12, 2008)

akflightmedic said:


> Sometimes, SOMETIMES, pet owners can be just as rude and inconsiderate as smokers. Be responsible out there.



Not all smokers are inconsiderate. I can understand if you don't like smoking, but it doesn't mean you should paint all smokers with the same brush. Much like I don't just assume all paramedics are arrogant, self-serving, and full of themselves. Even tho that's usually the case 99% of the time. But, we can save the smoking conversation for another time.


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## reaper (Jul 12, 2008)

Amen!!!!!!


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## Ridryder911 (Jul 12, 2008)

I do find it ironic the conversation on how politically correct we have became. It was not that long ago, almost every firehouse had a Dalmatian as a mascot. I even knew many that had several mascot cats, dogs, etc.

One of our Paramedics just kept some small miniature Collies for an older couple that was from out of state involved in a MVC. They were in a carrier device and placed out of site, and she was able to care and baby sit them, while on duty. The family wrote a thank you letter to the newspaper, and cards, cake to the crews. It was much better than any recent save, rescue, or treating an serious illness response. 

No one died, no one became anaphylactic, no patients had any reactions from any exposures, etc.. (good grief!) 

When in reality, most patients homes I go into have several animals, we are exposed to mites, dandruff, lice, etc... then what, you immediately change into another uniform after each call?.. yeah, right! As well, it is proven most animals are more cleaner in some ways than some humans.. 

No, I am not endorsing undue animals at the station, nor transporting every hurt injured animal, but realistically if hygiene was the factor many of our patients would ever meet the criteria. 


R/r 911


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## gradygirl (Jul 12, 2008)

This is so funny! My original question was about US field crews having animals and it spun suddenly into our patients having animals. :blink: So maybe I should pull us back to one of my questions that hasn't been answered: what do you think about a supervisor in a fly car having an animal? The animal never comes in contact with the patient or anything like that. (Also, her dog was highly trained in obedience and very smart, so he never caused a problem.)


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## reaper (Jul 12, 2008)

As long as the dog stays in the car, on calls. I see nothing wrong with. If command allows it, then they are ok with me.


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## CFRBryan347768 (Jul 12, 2008)

mikeylikesit said:


> on a side note i have seen a show where they are training monkeys to deliver tickets when people are pulled over by the police on traffic stops. this take the possibility of the cop getting hurt down greatly...but who wouldn't steal a trained monkey?



Wonder how animal rights people are taking to this, because that means, they would rather have the monkey get splattered. Which I would too, but why give a once wild animal a human job? And besides if a monkey went up to me and handed me a ticket I think I would laugh.


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## Medic9 (Jul 12, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I do find it ironic the conversation on how politically correct we have became. It was not that long ago, almost every firehouse had a Dalmatian as a mascot. I even knew many that had several mascot cats, dogs, etc.
> 
> One of our Paramedics just kept some small miniature Collies for an older couple that was from out of state involved in a MVC. They were in a carrier device and placed out of site, and she was able to care and baby sit them, while on duty. The family wrote a thank you letter to the newspaper, and cards, cake to the crews. It was much better than any recent save, rescue, or treating an serious illness response.
> 
> ...



Finally a voice of reason. I responded to an MVA on my way to work one morning. The woman was distraught because PD wouldn' t take her dog and we wouldn't take it in the rig. Since I was there POV and not going to the hospital with the patient I took the dog back to the squad with me and kept her down in the truck bay. The family was greatful and the dog went home safe and sound and few Milk-Bones heavier. 
Could any of you leave an animal tied to a post on the sie of the road for the patient or family member to pick up later? I would be sick with worry.


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## karaya (Jul 12, 2008)

TCERT1987 said:


> ...what do you think about a supervisor in a fly car having an animal? The animal never comes in contact with the patient or anything like that.


 
What is the point of having an animal in the fly car while on duty? This is just plain silly.


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## reaper (Jul 12, 2008)

Protection, Companionship? What so silly about it?

If they are in a QRV, then they are usually alone all shift. Like I said, Doesn't hurt anything if it stays in the vehicle.


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## karaya (Jul 12, 2008)

reaper said:


> Protection, Companionship? What so silly about it?
> 
> If they are in a QRV, then they are usually alone all shift. Like I said, Doesn't hurt anything if it stays in the vehicle.


 

Protection? Protection from what? Is Fe Fe the attack Poodle in the QRV for protection? And companionship is what you get when you go home after your shift.

A lot of cops are alone, mailmen, the meter man, the guy who comes to fix my furnace. With the exception of a K9 cop, you don't see pets with them. Besides, an animal in an emergency vehicle while running balls out to a call is just a distraction.


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## gradygirl (Jul 12, 2008)

Ray, my super's dog was a Rottweiler. We worked in Hartford and had a few of our trucks vandalized while we were inside on scene. She left him in there to protect the truck (he knew all of us), as well as to keep her company during the deep overnight shifts.


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## reaper (Jul 12, 2008)

Geez got that one right!


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## karaya (Jul 12, 2008)

TCERT1987 said:


> Ray, my super's dog was a Rottweiler. We worked in Hartford and had a few of our trucks vandalized while we were inside on scene. She left him in there to protect the truck (he knew all of us), as well as to keep her company during the deep overnight shifts.


 
Vandalism is a random act and if that many of your trucks are constantly vandalized then maybe you should have your police become more involved in high crime areas. I know many EMS providers that will not enter certain neighborhoods until police is on the scene.

So what do you do on the days your super's off or are your trucks only vandalized when she is working? What's a "deep" overnight shift? Isn't overnight shift in EMS just like anyone else's overnight EMS shift?

There are thousands of medic supervisor's working an overnight shift as I type this post who do not need the company of a mutt. Toting a Rottweiler around as some sort of half *** security in an EMS fly car is ridiculous.

Sounds like this dog is capable of attacking. I wonder how your EMS provider's insurance would feel about this? Seems the threat of a litigation claim to an accidental attack would result in far more monetary damages than what any vandalism would cost.


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## gradygirl (Jul 12, 2008)

HPD apparently has enough on their plate with having calls wait for hours, they don't have the resources to escort us on every single one of our calls. I mean, goodness, it's hard enough for us to get PD if we call a mayday! And this vandalism was in the form of things disappearing from the trucks. As good as all of us are about locking them, people will still break into our ambulances if they really, really want to. It's only happened a few times over the past few years, but it still really sucks. This super decides to bring Dozer along on the occasional night, it's not every single shift.

A "deep" overnight is just what we refer to a "regular" overnight shift, just our jargon at work, nothing to freak out over.

Like I just said, she brings him on the rare occasion, not every single night. So no, he's not lo-tech LoJack or anything like that.

And, if you ever met Dozer, he's the biggest teddy bear ever. His thing is that he _looks_ scary. (Heck, any 130lb dog looks scary.) Now, I'm not saying that if he was pushed that he wouldn't attack, but I doubt he would ever be given a chance to, as his presence is enough of a deterrent.

I really don't feel like I have to go anymore into this discussion. This is something my *super* does, not me. Apparently management doesn't have a problem with it, so I don't really care if he tags along or not. (I love the big lug, actually.)


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## BossyCow (Jul 13, 2008)

Being out in the hinterlands, we often have to deal with the animals of our pts. We had one frequent flier who had three very large, agressive dogs who had to be dealt with before we could enter her home. I have also dealt with the animals found in a home with in home deaths, horses on the side of the road after a car vs truck-pulling-horse trailer, cow vs car, and my personal favorite, car vs cougar (,large male cougar hurt but not dead) My priority is the safety and care of myself and my pt. always. 

We often have to deal with animals as a side note to our calls. Making sure the animal is taken care of, or that the animal doesn't become a hazard on a road. I've called neighbors, friends, local pet advocates/rescue centers to provide for the care and feeding of animals whose owners have been injured or ill.

This is very different from putting my 80+ pound husky mix in the car with me while responding to calls. I only take my dogs in the car if they are going to the vet, or if we are going out to play. In both those cases, the dogs are restrained (I actually have doggy seat belts) because I don't want them becoming a projectile should I get into a wreck.

Now, if someone could explain to me, in simple english, how, having a pet in the rig with me responding to calls, is going to improve pt care I'd be behind it 100%. As I see it, it adds another level to every call. I don't want to be worrying about my dog, cat, parrot, child, maiden aunt or idiot brother in law while trying to provide pt care.


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## mycrofft (Jul 15, 2008)

*Ruh-Rooooah!*

...............:sad:


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## mikeylikesit (Jul 15, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Now, if someone could explain to me, in simple english, how, having a pet in the rig with me responding to calls, is going to improve pt care I'd be behind it 100%. As I see it, it adds another level to every call. I don't want to be worrying about my dog, cat, parrot, child, maiden aunt or idiot brother in law while trying to provide pt care.


i got one for ya bossy. 
what person doesn't smile or forget pain when they see a cute little puppy? and what drunk who's being combative won't forget his rage whilst petting or looking a an adorable pup?

now like Bryan said. if a monkey came up to me (even to deliver a $1000.00 speeding ticket) i would still drive away laughing...until i got home to my wife.


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## BossyCow (Jul 15, 2008)

mikeylikesit said:


> i got one for ya bossy.
> what person doesn't smile or forget pain when they see a cute little puppy? and what drunk who's being combative won't forget his rage whilst petting or looking a an adorable pup?
> 
> now like Bryan said. if a monkey came up to me (even to deliver a $1000.00 speeding ticket) i would still drive away laughing...until i got home to my wife.



While some pts may respond in the manner you describe, as an EMT you should be able to accomplish the same results without the use of an animal. I think the possibility of the pt saying.. "get that stupid mutt out of my face" or the likelihood of the drunk drop kicking the pup instead of forgetting the rage is about 50/50. In Fire training, they tell us to weigh risk vs gain. I'm not seeing it on this one.


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## ILemt (Jul 21, 2008)

I can see having a parrot on the box overhead rail ... 
he can repeat vital signs for me. --> better pt. care 

If a fire dept can have a dalmation >sp?< 
and the PD has had K-9 mascots for decades
then we in EMS should have something 

New task: 
Pick a dog suitible as the new "universal" EMS mascot


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## BossyCow (Jul 21, 2008)

ILemt said:


> I can see having a parrot on the box overhead rail ...
> he can repeat vital signs for me. --> better pt. care
> 
> If a fire dept can have a dalmation >sp?<
> ...



Few if any fire departments have dalmations any more and the K-9 can hardly be considered a mascot.


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## mycrofft (Jul 21, 2008)

*How about a therapy animal?*

but not a dog...get a Siamese mix shorthair. (Himalayans have excellent temperment but their hair has to be burned off any woven surface they worm into). And an automatic litterbox. Leave them at the station.
(Hmm. VOX mike on; medical channel soon bearing transmissions consisting of "MAAOOOOW?" and "NAAAOW!!").


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Jul 21, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> This is a pet peeve (no pun intended) of mine. I have animals. I love my animals. But they are not people and should not be treated as such.
> 
> I think bringing animals to the workplace is highly inappropriate. You cannot always tell how an animal will respond to each individual in a workplace. While exceptions are made for service animals, those are highly trained and highly socialized animals. But Fido or Fifi needs to be left at home.





Minus the "highly part" but still agreeing it is inappropriate I say leave them home also....


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Jul 21, 2008)

karaya said:


> Vandalism is a random act and if that many of your trucks are constantly vandalized then maybe you should have your police become more involved in high crime areas. I know many EMS providers that will not enter certain neighborhoods until police is on the scene.



Guilty of that............


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