# Should I do a no-experience Paramedic program straight out?



## FutureParamedic12 (Apr 18, 2011)

Okay, so I'm 17 (I just turned 17 a few days ago). I got a huge scholarship from the university I'm going to so I practically am paying nothing my freshman year, and I just got another huge scholarship from an external source and I want to use that money for paramedic training. I do have experience though. I placed 3rd in a state level EMT-B competition after placing first in the area and regional HOSA competition. I'm advancing to nationals.

I'm not trained as an EMT or anything, but I hate the EMT students at my school and I felt like I should do this competition to rid of their egos. They think they are sooo smart and can handle any situation. Like, my teacher touched something on his desk and started having labored breathing and hive break-outs in his upper extremities.  They were all over him and when I tried to assist them they were like, "...What level class are you in?....We have this, you can go back and sit down." The teacher was having an anaphylactic reaction and all I hear the EMT kids saying is, "OMG. He's going into respiratory arrest! Get the BVM! Get the AED! Call the ambulance and tell them we need an ALS unit here STAT."

I walked up to him and was like, "Do you have an epinepherine auto-injector?"

He shook his head (relieved I could tell) and pointed to his bag. I got it out and injected it in his thigh. He was fine.

We also had a Teen CERT competition where there was a mock disaster and I was part of the medical team (we had 23 patients) and of course the instructor would get the EMT kids to help. They didn't know what they were doing (I wouldn't trust them with my life). I took over and pretty much treated all of the patients by myself while I got evil looks from everyone. We ended up winning the medical competition because of me. 

We have first aid clinics at my school during events and I think it's so funny how the EMT instructor never chooses any of her students to run it. She chooses me and my EMT competition partner (who also isn't in EMT training). 

I'm sorry about rambling about this, it just annoys me so much so when I get on the topic I ramble. lol.

So, anyways...I'm graduating a year early (this year) and I wanted to do EMT training this summer with the money I got from my scholarship. The EMT instructor at my school recommended me to do the EMT-B training online. It's a program where you do the book work online and the skills at a skills station. She said that'd be a great option for me since I already have most of the EMT-B knowledge and skills down...but I saw a program where I could do the entire Paramedic training online (what I really want to do...I want to become a paramedic before I graduate college)...it's like an A to Z program where you start from nothing and finish with a paramedic certificate. It sounds really interesting and I really want to do it. I told the EMT instructor and she said that she thinks I'm ready academically to be a paramedic but she doesn't know if I am emotionally since I'm only 17. I think I am...but idk.... and I wanted to get the opinions of you guys. Should I do it? 

Thanks for your help!


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## rescue1 (Apr 18, 2011)

Online paramedic training isn't really considered that great, and is thought to churn out large quantities of half trained medics.
My recommendation is to get your EMT-B and ride with the local ambulance to get a feel for how it works out on the streets before committing to EMT-P, which you might have to be 18 for anyway, depending on where you are.

What university are you going to? If it's large enough it may have a campus EMS service that would put you through EMT-B and get you experience riding the ambulance. If you're really lucky, it might have an ALS program there, or at least one nearby so that you could take paramedic along with school if you decide that's what you want to do.


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## medicRob (Apr 19, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> I placed 3rd in a state level EMT-B competition after placing first in the area and regional HOSA competition. I'm advancing to nationals. I'm not trained as an EMT or anything, but I hate the EMT students at my school and I felt like I should do this competition to rid of their egos.



If you are not an EMT, how are you competing in an EMT competition.. When did Health Occupation students of America start hosting EMS competitions?

I see several flaws in your thinking. 

First of all, if you walk into an EMS program with the attitude that you know everything already, etc... Your instructor is going to show you how much you don't know real quick. 



FutureParamedic12 said:


> They think they are sooo smart and can handle any situation.



What makes you think you are any better? 




FutureParamedic12 said:


> Like, my teacher touched something on his desk and started having labored breathing and hive break-outs in his upper extremities.  They were all over him and when I tried to assist them they were like, "...What level class are you in?....We have this, you can go back and sit down." The teacher was having an anaphylactic reaction and all I hear the EMT kids saying is, "OMG. He's going into respiratory arrest! Get the BVM! Get the AED! Call the ambulance and tell them we need an ALS unit here STAT."



Explain to me the pathophysiology of type I hypersensitivity reactions and the roles of IgE antibodies on mast cells play in these types of reactions as well as the effect of subsequent degranulation and release of inflammatory mediators..

What are the common symptoms? 

What is the treatment? 

Why is this the treatment of choice? 







FutureParamedic12 said:


> I walked up to him and was like, "Do you have an epinepherine auto-injector?"
> 
> He shook his head (relieved I could tell) and pointed to his bag. I got it out and injected it in his thigh. He was fine.



Where on his thigh? Explain to me how you used the auto-injector... Moreover, explain to me what was in that auto-injector. 



FutureParamedic12 said:


> We also had a Teen CERT competition where there was a mock disaster and I was part of the medical team (we had 23 patients) and of course the instructor would get the EMT kids to help. They didn't know what they were doing (I wouldn't trust them with my life). I took over and pretty much treated all of the patients by myself while I got evil looks from everyone. We ended up winning the medical competition because of me.



You took over, and they won because of you... So you are pretty much saying that you did everything. A paramedic instructor would eat you alive for a comment like this. 



FutureParamedic12 said:


> We have first aid clinics at my school during events and I think it's so funny how the EMT instructor never chooses any of her students to run it. She chooses me and my EMT competition partner (who also isn't in EMT training).



I doubt this. Why on Earth would an EMT instructor choose someone who is not an EMT to run a first aid clinic? This seems a bit strange to me. 

I'm sorry about rambling about this, it just annoys me so much so when I get on the topic I ramble. lol.



FutureParamedic12 said:


> So, anyways...I'm graduating a year early (this year) and I wanted to do EMT training this summer with the money I got from my scholarship. The EMT instructor at my school recommended me to do the EMT-B training online. It's a program where you do the book work online and the skills at a skills station. She said that'd be a great option for me since I already have most of the EMT-B knowledge and skills down...but I saw a program where I could do the entire Paramedic training online (what I really want to do...I want to become a paramedic before I graduate college)...it's like an A to Z program where you start from nothing and finish with a paramedic certificate. It sounds really interesting and I really want to do it. I told the EMT instructor and she said that she thinks I'm ready academically to be a paramedic but she doesn't know if I am emotionally since I'm only 17. I think I am...but idk.... and I wanted to get the opinions of you guys. Should I do it?
> 
> Thanks for your help!



No. With your "I can do it all on my own" attitude, and your obvious disregard for other students, you will inevitably fail or be asked to leave an EMS program. 

Work on the attitude, then get with a campus-based EMS program if that is what you choose to pursue. Judging from what I have read in this post, you are not ready to enter an emergency medical technology program... Furthermore, paramedic and EMT-B are two different levels completely, so I am not sure what you mean by "no experience paramedic program straight out"... However, I will say, that if you were lucky enough to make it through EMT-B with that attitude, you absolutely will not make it through Paramedic.. You would be eaten alive.


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## MrBrown (Apr 19, 2011)

OMG where did this guy come from and how do we get him to go back there?


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## BEorP (Apr 19, 2011)

Take your time! You're 17, and just barely. You're younger than you realize or want to admit. How do I know? Because I was probably a lot like you when I was 17. Because you're mature, you think that when people make comments about 17 being young that it really doesn't apply to you completely. Let me tell you though, it still does. I know you probably won't believe this, and I probably didn't believe it when people told me, but it is true.

Go to college and focus on getting a good education there. If you can get involved with a campus response team, do that. There does not need to be any rush to become a paramedic. There will always be sick people who need a ride to the hospital. Having a degree will help you be a better paramedic, if that is what you still want to do once you graduate from college.

In terms of your attitude, I think it does need some adjustment to be successful in EMS, but please do not take this as a personal attack. Firstly, I don't know you. I'm just making judgements based on one post in an online forum. Secondly, I'm inclined to believe that much of what you say about your skills is true. It is great that you have some medical knowledge, but you need to be careful to not come across as arrogant. The important thing is that you need to pay attention how you are PERCEIVED. You may be the most modest person in the world in your head, but if other people think you are arrogant than that is all that really matters when it comes to interactions with them, isn't it? You may very well have just been trying to tell us of your accomplishments that you are quite proud of, but I'm sure that you can understand that repeatedly saying you with no EMT training are better than EMTs or EMT students can be perceived negatively.

So in summary, my advice would be:
- you're young, enjoy life
- go to college and focus on that
- be careful how you are perceived

Good luck with everything!


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## CAOX3 (Apr 19, 2011)

I think its refreshing that there is a seventeen year old with a significant grasp of the english language that can use paragraphs and grammer to express himself, I had all but given up hope.

There's a fine line between cocky and confident, but I like someone with a little edge, life experience will tone that down a little.  I also like that he has the attitude that he conquer the world, isnt locked in his bedroom playing x-box and doesn't communicate through text message language.

Stay in school get an education, take an emt class, preferably not on line.  I believe initial training/education should be done in person.

Always remember there isnt anything wrong with confidence as long as you can deliver the goods.

Good luck.


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## rescue99 (Apr 19, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> Okay, so I'm 17 (I just turned 17 a few days ago). I got a huge scholarship from the university I'm going to so I practically am paying nothing my freshman year, and I just got another huge scholarship from an external source and I want to use that money for paramedic training. I do have experience though. I placed 3rd in a state level EMT-B competition after placing first in the area and regional HOSA competition. I'm advancing to nationals.
> 
> I'm not trained as an EMT or anything, but I hate the EMT students at my school and I felt like I should do this competition to rid of their egos. They think they are sooo smart and can handle any situation. Like, my teacher touched something on his desk and started having labored breathing and hive break-outs in his upper extremities.  They were all over him and when I tried to assist them they were like, "...What level class are you in?....We have this, you can go back and sit down." The teacher was having an anaphylactic reaction and all I hear the EMT kids saying is, "OMG. He's going into respiratory arrest! Get the BVM! Get the AED! Call the ambulance and tell them we need an ALS unit here STAT."
> 
> ...



Hmm, all of that to say you want to be a Medic? Okay, that's great. What's sad  is that it's of secondary importance. Human lives aren't secondary in my book but then again, I'm not 17 anymore either. My suggestion is; go get an education. One day, when being a care provider becomes more important than showing off, give Medic a try.


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## HotelCo (Apr 19, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> Should I do it?



To put it simply: No. 

I'll expand on that when I wake up.


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## Tommerag (Apr 19, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> To put it simply: No.
> 
> I'll expand on that when I wake up.



Badgers Sleep?

If taking a paramedic class is something you really want to do go for it. You will need to be 18 though. I'm not sure where you are from, but Im guessing you will have to be 18 to take the EMT-B course as well. You at least need to be 18 to take the NREMT EMT-B test.

You may think you know everything, but you'll need to accept that you don't. Also remember that actual calls tend to not happen like the examples you are given in textbooks.

I don't recommend taking medic class online. There is a lot of information in medic school and plus how would you be able to practice labs and what not. Something to think about.


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## medic417 (Apr 19, 2011)

rescue1 said:


> Online paramedic training isn't really considered that great, and is thought to churn out large quantities of half trained medics.



Really?  Actually it is just the opposite with quality online programs.  They make you study harder.  You have to research rather than be spoon fed the material.  The only bad part is most do not qualify for college credit.  I see more low quality products from college courses than I do the online ones.  

Now on individual level most are not self disciplined enough to complete an online program.


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## medic417 (Apr 19, 2011)

Tommerag said:


> I don't recommend taking medic class online. There is a lot of information in medic school and plus how would you be able to practice labs and what not. Something to think about.



Another falsehood.  Online does not mean they do not require hands on labs and practice.  You do the lectures and research online.  You go to the campus and do labs and hands on.  

If online is so bad why are colleges doing online education, including EMS and other health professions now?


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## 18G (Apr 19, 2011)

Maybe it's just the way your coming across on the forum, but as MedicRob has pointed out your attitude and thinking could use a little tweaking. 

I applaud you for wanting to explore EMS and for wanting to see what it is all about but please do so with an open mind and never think that you know it all. Even if your a hard head like myself always remember your not all that and someone out there knows 25x more than you and you can learn something from them. Your peers are some of the best people to learn from!

As far as the online Paramedic program. There is no simple yes or no answer to that question. It all depends on how the online programs are conducted, who is conducting them, and how the student learns through that method of delivery. For me, I would not have the focus to do a Paramedic program all online. I need to be in a classroom. 

And please do not look at an online program as a short cut by any means. If anything the online program is more difficult. There is a local College that offers an online option where you complete the didactic portion online and go to the College every weekend, once a week, or something like that for the hands-on portion and you do your clinicals also. If at anytime your not liking the online delivery you can transition into the traditional classroom program. 

So check out your options and go from there. Your success depends largely on attitude. If you have any further questions just ask.


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## medicRob (Apr 19, 2011)

medic417 said:


> Another falsehood.  Online does not mean they do not require hands on labs and practice.  You do the lectures and research online.  You go to the campus and do labs and hands on.
> 
> If online is so bad why are colleges doing online education, including EMS and other health professions now?



I am starting to see more and more paramedic programs becoming hybrid courses. I don't really see a problem with them, so long as the student is motivated and getting the proper feedback and necessary content from the instructors. In today's economy with gas approaching $4 a gallon, hybrid and online courses are becoming more popular than ever.


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## medic417 (Apr 19, 2011)

medicRob said:


> I am starting to see more and more paramedic programs becoming hybrid courses. I don't really see a problem with them, so long as the student is motivated and getting the proper feedback and necessary content from the instructors. In today's economy with gas approaching $4 a gallon, hybrid and online courses are becoming more popular than ever.



Exactly.  Plus colleges are seeing it saves them money as well.  It's not just Paramedic.  I can take many nursing and even pre med classes online/hybrid.  

And gas is well over $4 in my area.  :sad:


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## FutureParamedic12 (Apr 19, 2011)

Thank you guys for your responses! I think I'm going to go traditional and sign up for EMT/Paramedic training with a local community college.  I also thank you for not beating me down like the guy below. I wasn't trying to sound cocky. It's just that I hate when people don't take things seriously. The people in that class are nothing like you guys. Obviously you guys are emergency medicine enthusiasts, and I came here to get advice from you because I see you as role models. If I thought I was better than any of you, would I be posting on this forum?

I know that there's still a lot that I have to learn, and in no way am I saying that I'm ready to handle a patient's life, I just get upset with the thought of the EMT students at my school. They are really cocky (if you think I'm cocky...come to my school) and they really know nothing because they don't care. They don't pay attention in class and 80% of the class is failing. It pisses me off because the EMT instructor is amazing and she loves teaching that class but no one cares and it's like she's wasting her time. So sorry if I came off as cocky/arrogant. I'm really not in person. I promise. 




medicRob said:


> First of all, if you walk into an EMS program with the attitude that you know everything already, etc... Your instructor is going to show you how much you don't know real quick.



I'm sure she/he will. I know there's still a lot for me to learn. 





medicRob said:


> Explain to me the pathophysiology of type I hypersensitivity reactions and the roles of IgE antibodies on mast cells play in these types of reactions as well as the effect of subsequent degranulation and release of inflammatory mediators..
> 
> What are the common symptoms?
> 
> ...



I'm not in medical school. Sorry. But I'm sure that's not a hard topic to learn. Again, not trying to make myself sound like I'm better than any of you guys. Obviously I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't value your opinion and saw you as role models and mentors. 









medicRob said:


> Where on his thigh? Explain to me how you used the auto-injector... Moreover, explain to me what was in that auto-injector.



Are you being serious? I don't even want to answer that...




medicRob said:


> You took over, and they won because of you... So you are pretty much saying that you did everything. A paramedic instructor would eat you alive for a comment like this.



Oh really? Because I did take over and did everything. Everyone else sat there except when I occasionally asked them to throw over gauze, roller bandages, etc. I don't see why a paramedic instructor would eat me alive for stating something that I did...




medicRob said:


> I doubt this. Why on Earth would an EMT instructor choose someone who is not an EMT to run a first aid clinic? This seems a bit strange to me.



Well, not to be arrogant, but I am going to nationals for an EMT competition...I know how to handle a cut wound. HOSA competitions are intense. Everything has to be done perfectly if you even want to place in the top 10. Going above and beyond is the only way you'll advance. The EMT students don't take that class seriously. Me and the EMT instructor talked the entire trip to our state competition about how her class didn't have a passion for medicine like she did and how depressing that was for her to teach a class that did not care. 



medicRob said:


> Work on the attitude, then get with a campus-based EMS program if that is what you choose to pursue. Judging from what I have read in this post, you are not ready to enter an emergency medical technology program... Furthermore, paramedic and EMT-B are two different levels completely, so I am not sure what you mean by "no experience paramedic program straight out"... However, I will say, that if you were lucky enough to make it through EMT-B with that attitude, you absolutely will not make it through Paramedic.. You would be eaten alive.



I don't have an attitude. The EMT students at my school don't take it seriously. None of them will probably pass the National Registry...or even qualify to take it because of their poor record in the class. I'm not trying to compare myself to you. 

That is all.


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## FutureParamedic12 (Apr 19, 2011)

Uggh...it didn't quote right. 



Nevermind, fixed it.


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## Veneficus (Apr 19, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> Well, not to be arrogant, but I am going to nationals for an EMT competition...



I couldn't help but wonder...

Does any other healthcare provider have a competition?

I am sorry and not directing at the poster, but this just sounds absolutely stupid.

EMS, not even a trade anymore, simply a game.


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## FutureParamedic12 (Apr 19, 2011)

It's not a game. It's a competition. There's also plenty of similiar EMT competitions nationwide. It's not supposed to be for fun. It's to further your education and make you a better provider. It's like a, "who can perform their skills the best" competition. I know for CPR I used to make small errors and never knew until HOSA competition when I got 10 points taken off for not performing a head-to-toe assessment immediately after regaining a pulse and respiration (this was last year when I did the CPR/First Aid competition). Since that's the reason I lost and didn't advance to nationals I will never ever make that mistake on a real patient. It's engrained in my brain. Same for EMT. I checked for pulse, movement, but not skin temperature/color after I splinted a fractured femur and it dropped me down to third place even though me and my partner did go above and beyond.


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## rescue1 (Apr 19, 2011)

If I'm wrong, I'm sure the more knowledgeable members will correct me, but I'm fairly sure there is no need to check the temperature of a broken extremity before and after splinting, as it won't have changed significantly in that short time, even if you get increased (or decreased) blood flow.


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## Veneficus (Apr 19, 2011)

*Oh the conflict...*

I couldn't decide if I should dignify this with a response or not. But in the effort to engage your mind, here goes.




FutureParamedic12 said:


> It's not a game. It's a competition. There's also plenty of similiar EMT competitions nationwide.



So is there a cardiothoracic surgery competition?

You know, to show off who can perform their off pump quad bypass skills on a 65 year old morbidly obese male with a history of uncontrolled HTN, diabetes, systemic atherosclerosis, and previous MI?

Why do you think there is no such competition?




FutureParamedic12 said:


> It's not supposed to be for fun. It's to further your education and make you a better provider. *It's like a, "who can perform their skills the best" competition*.



"The poor creature, it doesn't know any better."

It is the skills mentality that keeps EMS in the toilet. It is why basics beg for jobs and could get better pay and benefits asking me if I want fries with that.

Did your (let me be generous) "instructor" ever bother to tell you in medicine there is not only more than 1 right way to do something but competing thoughts as to what is actually the right thing to do?




FutureParamedic12 said:


> I know for CPR I used to make small errors and never knew until HOSA competition when I got 10 points taken off for not performing a head-to-toe assessment immediately after regaining a pulse and respiration (this was last year when I did the CPR/First Aid competition)..



Could I ask you what you were supposed to find in that assessment?




FutureParamedic12 said:


> Since that's the reason I lost and didn't advance to nationals I will never ever make that mistake on a real patient.



What good is an assessment if you don't know what you are looking for or at?



FutureParamedic12 said:


> It's engrained in my brain. Same for EMT. I checked for pulse, movement, but not skin temperature/color after I splinted a fractured femur and it dropped me down to third place even though me and my partner did go above and beyond.



So how exactly did you put on a splint and not look at or touch the patient's extemity,telekinesis?

Perhaps you simply lost points for not verbalizing your diagnositcs? Not exactly the measure of clinical excellence. Of course if I were to verbalize every finding I were looking for or pertinant negatives on every patient I saw, the exam would not only create panic, it would take an hour.

Above and beyond what? How?


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## FutureParamedic12 (Apr 19, 2011)

I don't know. :/ It's a pretty popular event though. I don't think it would be so popular if it was as pointless/waste of time as you say.


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## Veneficus (Apr 19, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> I don't know. :/ It's a pretty popular event though. I don't think it would be so popular if it was as pointless/waste of time as you say.



Popularity is not a measure of quality.

But what you have said is that you really don't know how to do an assessment. 

You have no idea what you are looking at or for. 

You have no idea what is expected in this competition in terms of scoring, which is likely more subjective than figure skating.

Finally you claim to go above and beyond, but cannot describe what that is.

Given you don't seem to know what is expected, that is not surprising.

I think your career would be best served by you going to paramedic class as soon as humanly possible. Preferably at a reputable institution.

Definately somewhere else based on what you have received in your instruction so far.


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## FutureParamedic12 (Apr 19, 2011)

Oh my God, I do know. I just don't want to write a page response on how to perform an assessment and what to look for during that assessment as proof that I know what I'm doing. 

Above and beyond depends on the scenario. So it's hard to give a general explanation. But for state during my secondary assessment, I palpated the abdomen and found a pounding pulse signifying a possible aortic aneurysm. It's considered going above and beyond because it usually takes experience to recognize things like that. EMT students usually wouldn't recognize it.


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## MassEMT-B (Apr 19, 2011)

I have a question, how do you know what someone else would recognize? Also in my class we talked about AAA. Oh another question while I think of it, how do you feel a pulsating  mass unless it is on a real patient?


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## volleyball11 (Apr 19, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> I'm not in medical school. Sorry. But I'm sure that's not a hard topic to learn. Again, not trying to make myself sound like I'm better than any of you guys. Obviously I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't value your opinion and saw you as role models and mentors.
> QUOTE]
> 
> sure sounds like it...


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## emtgirl515 (Apr 19, 2011)

I am kicking myself for even responding to this. 

In the words of Stewie Griffin, "I'm going to do what I call a compliment sandwich, where I say something good, talk about where you need improvement, and then end with something good."

Sorry I couldn't help but say it. It seemed fitting for FutureParamedic12's age. Hope someone appreciates it.

First: I am impressed with your vocabulary and proper spelling for being 17. I know people twice your age in the medical field who can't spell the word "lives". Scary, as they say they want to help save them. So kudos to you. Also, if you do continue and end up in the field I have hope I could read your reports.

Secondly: I am not suggesting that I am in any position to be giving others advice but you asked for an opinion. Mine is: Don't do an online Basic or Paramedic course. You stated you have experience, but also stated you are not an EMT or anything. You can't have one without the other. So take a hands-on Basic course and get some real experience (even if it's just on clinicals) before you go for Paramedic. You will benefit in many ways. Besides, by the time you have taken a Basic course you will barely be old enough to take your NREMT exam. By taking a hands-on course & not "competing" you will also learn to work with people as you say you "hate" or "wouldn't trust your life with." There will always be people you don't see eye to eye with but you have to learn to deal with it. They could one day be your co-worker, boss, or it is possible they could end up treating you if, heaven forbid, you ever become a patient. 

Thirdly: I think it is great, even if your perspective is a little off, that you are interested in this field. Who knows, with some time and some real situations, not competitions, you could make an excellent EMT. There needs to be more people with enthusiasm in EMS. Remember though, it's good to be confident but not cocky. For that matter I would take competent any day over the first 2 characteristics I mentioned. Anyway, go take an in person/hands-on course & build on what you've already learned.


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## abckidsmom (Apr 19, 2011)

CAOX3 said:


> I think its refreshing that there is a seventeen year old with a significant grasp of the english language that can use paragraphs and grammer to express himself, I had all but given up hope.
> 
> There's a fine line between cocky and confident, but I like someone with a little edge, life experience will tone that down a little.  I also like that he has the attitude that he conquer the world, isnt locked in his bedroom playing x-box and doesn't communicate through text message language.
> 
> ...



And please, know what the goods even are.

The usefulness of many treatments in EMS, even EMS itself, are debatable.  The only thing of actual value you bring to the scene is your brain, loaded with knowledge, like the answers to the questions that medicRob posted to you above.   

I was on a competition team when I was 16 too.  We were awesome- at every competition we were neck and neck with a team whose leader was a full-time medic.  One of the smartest guys I've ever run into, and we beat him regularly, because he was thinking, and we were working through a checklist.

EMS is not about a checklist, or going above and beyond by recognizing a pulsatile mass in the abdomen.  It's about sleuthing out what the problem is, pointing people in the right direction to the right help and not only not killing them on the way, but maybe even doing them a little good.

Good luck to you, tiger.


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## Tommerag (Apr 20, 2011)

medic417 said:


> Another falsehood.  Online does not mean they do not require hands on labs and practice.  You do the lectures and research online.  You go to the campus and do labs and hands on.
> 
> If online is so bad why are colleges doing online education, including EMS and other health professions now?



I never said that online classes didn't have labs and practice.

And as for why are colleges doing EMS and health professions online? Its simple. For Money. A lot of the online schools that offer EMS and other health care degrees are for profit schools. Granted there are some schools that offer good solid degrees online, but i think in generals its about the money.


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## Amycus (Apr 20, 2011)

From where I'm sitting I'll say this: Confidence is great and it'll help alot in this field. However, you are coming off, at least on the forums, of being overly cocky, with no actual field experience. That's going to get thrown back in your face by instructors, and piss off your partners. Humility goes a long way.


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## Veneficus (Apr 20, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> Oh my God, I do know. I just don't want to write a page response on how to perform an assessment and what to look for during that assessment as proof that I know what I'm doing.
> 
> Above and beyond depends on the scenario. So it's hard to give a general explanation. But for state during my secondary assessment, I palpated the abdomen and found a pounding pulse signifying a possible aortic aneurysm. It's considered going above and beyond because it usually takes experience to recognize things like that. EMT students usually wouldn't recognize it.



Above and beyond is not just on game day.

Above and beyond is everyday.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> Thank you guys for your responses! I think I'm going to go traditional and sign up for EMT/Paramedic training with a local community college.  I also thank you for not beating me down like the guy below. I wasn't trying to sound cocky. It's just that I hate when people don't take things seriously. The people in that class are nothing like you guys. Obviously you guys are emergency medicine enthusiasts, and I came here to get advice from you because I see you as role models. If I thought I was better than any of you, would I be posting on this forum?
> 
> I know that there's still a lot that I have to learn, and in no way am I saying that I'm ready to handle a patient's life, I just get upset with the thought of the EMT students at my school. They are really cocky (if you think I'm cocky...come to my school) and they really know nothing because they don't care. They don't pay attention in class and 80% of the class is failing. It pisses me off because the EMT instructor is amazing and she loves teaching that class but no one cares and it's like she's wasting her time. So sorry if I came off as cocky/arrogant. I'm really not in person. I promise.
> 
> ...



Congratulations, you barely even answered a single question. You certainly didn't answer a medical question. 

Also, the "I'm not in medical school" comment was particularly special considering you just told us you treated anaphylaxis, a type I hypersensitivity reaction, yet you couldn't even tell us about the drug in the auto-injector, it's properties and uses. Moreover, how the hell could someone who answers a question about what a type I hypersensitivity is with "Umm, im not in medical school" try to take over for an EMT who WAS TAUGHT what a type I hypersensitivity reaction is (btw, that is EMT Level not even Med School level). You seem to be nothing more than an arrogant, cocky 17 year old. Congratulations.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

FutureParamedic12 said:


> Oh my God, I do know. I just don't want to write a page response on how to perform an assessment and what to look for during that assessment as proof that I know what I'm doing.
> 
> Above and beyond depends on the scenario. So it's hard to give a general explanation. But for state during my secondary assessment, I palpated the abdomen and found a pounding pulse signifying a possible aortic aneurysm. It's considered going above and beyond because it usually takes experience to recognize things like that. EMT students usually wouldn't recognize it.



"We don't believe in credibility because we know that we're *** incredible."

That quote comes to mind.


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## medic417 (Apr 20, 2011)

Tommerag said:


> I don't recommend taking medic class online. There is a lot of information in medic school and *plus how would you be able to practice labs and what not*. Something to think about.





Tommerag said:


> I never said that online classes didn't have labs and practice.
> 
> And as for why are colleges doing EMS and health professions online? Its simple. For Money. A lot of the online schools that offer EMS and other health care degrees are for profit schools. Granted there are some schools that offer good solid degrees online, but i think in generals its about the money.



Seems you actually did.

Many "tax funded" big name university's do it as well.  I honestly doubt there are any big name university's w/o online classes anymore.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

Give the kid a break, he's 17...


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

> Also, the "I'm not in medical school" comment was particularly special considering you just told us you treated anaphylaxis, a type I hypersensitivity reaction, yet you couldn't even tell us about the drug in the auto-injector, it's properties and uses



And to be fair many emts and paramedics on the street really couldn't tell you anything more about epi other than "Uhhmmm... it's epi..."


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## medic417 (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Give the kid a break, he's 17...



I'm 13 and no one gives me a break. :sad:


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

13+30 does not equal 13.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

Veneficus said:


> I couldn't help but wonder...
> 
> Does any other healthcare provider have a competition?
> 
> ...



I didn't even know there was EMS competitions outside of the ones at Clincon.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> And to be fair many emts and paramedics on the street really couldn't tell you anything more about epi other than "Uhhmmm... it's epi..."



I would wager money that 90% of EMTs and Paramedics here in TN could tell you about the drug.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> I would wager money that 90% of EMTs and Paramedics here in TN could tell you about the drug.



I'd wager money that you're wrong. Many don't care about the specifics as long as it makes them feel and look cool


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I'd wager money that you're wrong. Many don't care about the specifics as long as it makes them feel and look cool



Actually, to complete both EMT-IV and Paramedic school, you are tested on drugs, their pharmacodynamics and kinetics, so I would wager that you are wrong.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> Actually, to complete both EMT-IV and Paramedic school, you are testing on drugs, their pharmacodynamics and kinetics, so I would wager that you are wrong.



They do that here, too... It's called cramming. They don't learn it, they just pass the test.

We have medics here I wouldn't trust with my enemy's neighbor's dogs.. But they still managed to pass a test without knowing anything.


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## medic417 (Apr 20, 2011)

I have to agree with Sasha on this one Rob.  The majority just study enough to pass not enough to take the education to heart where they would actually retain it.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

medic417 said:


> I have to agree with Sasha on this one Rob.  The majority just study enough to pass not enough to take the education to heart where they would actually retain it.



Of course you do. Remember, I only let you win once.


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## MassEMT-B (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Give the kid a break, he's 17...



I took my class when I was 17. I did not think I knew everything and I still don't.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

MassEMT-B said:


> I took my class when I was 17. I did not think I knew everything and I still don't.



I don't think you should ever be able to take the class at 17. 17 year olds are kids.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

medic417 said:


> I have to agree with Sasha on this one Rob.  The majority just study enough to pass not enough to take the education to heart where they would actually retain it.



Well, you all know that I am quick to call out where EMS Education fails. However, I truly don't believe that 90% of EMTs and Medics don't know at least one fact about epinephrine beyond "You give it for anaphylaxis".


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

Ok then.. "It makes your heart beat really fast"???


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## MassEMT-B (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I don't think you should ever be able to take the class at 17. 17 year olds are kids.



I agree. I was second in my class. Most people at 17 aren't mature enough. I, unfortunately, was different because my father passed away when I was 9 and had to grow up a lot faster. My mom was a mess, and still kind of is, from his passing. Most of the people in the class were in their early 20's and I don't think some of them were mature enough for the class. They didn't study or read the chapters. While here I was, outlining every chapter, rereading every chapter multiple times. I did all this between High School. It is not for everyone but some people can do it.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

No offense, but everyone thinks they're different and better than the next person, the OP is a classic example of that.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Ok then.. "It makes your heart beat really fast"???



How about it increases heart rate, dilates air passages, and originates in the adrenal medullae.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> How about it increases heart rate, dilates air passages, and originates in the adrenal medullae.



Yeah you're not going to get that from the average emt or medic


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Yeah you're not going to get that from the average emt or medic



Thank God TN EMT-IVs and Medics aren't average then..


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## steveshurtleff (Apr 20, 2011)

I dearly hope that I never learn it all, and I also dearly hope that there is always someone nearby who knows more than I do.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> Thank God TN EMT-IVs and Medics aren't average then..



Everyone likes to think that about their area


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 20, 2011)

OP, in a word, no. You need time as a basic, working with other basics and medics to learn the fine arts of humility and teamwork.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Everyone likes to think that about their area



I've yet to meet a TN EMT-IV or Paramedic that could not tell me those facts about epinephrine when asked. Moreover, our EMT-IV (lowest level provider) spends 9 months in school as opposed to a lot of EMT-B's that only spend 6 weeks. As a matter of fact, the first responder program I attended all those years ago was 3 months long.


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> OP, in a word, no. You need time as a basic, working with other basics and medics to learn the fine arts of humility and teamwork.



No you don't.


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## Veneficus (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> I didn't even know there was EMS competitions outside of the ones at Clincon.



I think JEMS sponsors a big one, but JEMS long since lost any credibility with me.

About the only thing they are a journal of is reducing EMS to the lowest denominator.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 20, 2011)

My vote is no. You seem extremely cocky and try to put yourself over everyone. You should go thru an EMT program where hopefully you will get "put in your place". If not then when you start working in the field you will get put there. I just turned 19 but I don't try to put myself above anyone (thanks to 5 years with the fire department).


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## MrBrown (Apr 20, 2011)

Hmm Brown seems to remember one or two things from adrenaline upskilling, like give it a bloody good, hard fifty ml flush coz MAO will start to metabolise it the second it hits the bloodstream 

This bloke needs to realise he is a twit and should bugger off and grow up


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## medic417 (Apr 20, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> OP, in a word, no. You need time as a basic, working with other basics and medics to learn the fine arts of humility and teamwork.



lol that is the funniest post of the year.


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 20, 2011)

medic417 said:


> lol that is the funniest post of the year.



Am I wrong?


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## Veneficus (Apr 20, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> Am I wrong?



I don't advocate experience as a basic before medic school, too much is left to chance.

But an epic fail as a medic student or medic definately can humble people too.


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## medic417 (Apr 20, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> Am I wrong?



Yes.  No reason to waste time at the basic level.  He can get that experience while completing his Paramedic degree.


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## fast65 (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> How about it increases heart rate, dilates air passages, and originates in the adrenal medullae.



Ooh, ooh, let me play!

Epinephrine is a sympathomimetic medication that causes increased systemic vascular resistance, automaticity, heart rate, and myocardial oxygen consumption. It is a also a potent bronchodilator. 

As far as the OP is concerned, please, I'm begging you, do the EMS world a favor and find another profession. There are enough "paragods" in the world, we don't need another one. 

Now if EMS is something you actually care about (read: care about the patients), then pick up a different attitude and continue to pass GO and collect $200.


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

fast65 said:


> Ooh, ooh, let me play!
> 
> Epinephrine is a sympathomimetic medication that causes increased systemic vascular resistance, automaticity, heart rate, and myocardial oxygen consumption. It is a also a potent bronchodilator.
> 
> ...



1. Why do we call it a Sympathomimetic?

2. The answer to question 1 is a subdivision of which nervous system? 

A. Central Nervous System
B. Peripheral Nervous System
C. Autonomic Nervous System.


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## fast65 (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> 1. Why do we call it a Sympathomimetic?
> 
> 2. The answer to question 1 is a subdivision of which nervous system?
> 
> ...



1. Because it mimics the actions of the sympathetic nervous system

2. C, autonomic nervous system

When you ask me questions that I know the answers to, it makes me feel so much smarter


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## medicRob (Apr 20, 2011)

fast65 said:


> 1. Because it mimics the actions of the sympathetic nervous system
> 
> 2. C, autonomic nervous system
> 
> When you ask me questions that I know the answers to, it makes me feel so much smarter



Good job. Sounds like your medic program is training you well.


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## fast65 (Apr 20, 2011)

medicRob said:


> Good job. Sounds like your medic program is training you well.




Thanks  Well, I certainly hope so


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 20, 2011)

medic417 said:


> Yes.  No reason to waste time at the basic level.  He can get that experience while completing his Paramedic degree.



Well, let me rephrase it. He doresn't need to learn a bunch of monkey EMT skills before medic school, what he needs to learn is HUMILITY and TEAMWORK. He's not going to get that in paramedic school. Right now, he's a 17 year old kid who thinks he knows it all. He needs to do a year of working as the lowest man on the totem pole. He'll get that as a new EMT. Or working at McDonalds. Or Wal-Mart. But he needs to WORK as a team member before running right off to medic school. You see?


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## medic417 (Apr 20, 2011)

n7lxi said:


> Well, let me rephrase it. He doresn't need to learn a bunch of monkey EMT skills before medic school, what he needs to learn is HUMILITY and TEAMWORK. He's not going to get that in paramedic school. Right now, he's a 17 year old kid who thinks he knows it all. He needs to do a year of working as the lowest man on the totem pole. He'll get that as a new EMT. Or working at McDonalds. Or Wal-Mart. But he needs to WORK as a team member before running right off to medic school. You see?



Now I got you.  Guess my Texas accent and your Washington one were causing some miscommunication.


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## DHoEMT-I (May 31, 2011)

*Dumbass*

You are seriously out of your mind if you think you know more than these EMT-B's in your school. 

If that is the case then you should let the DSHS know ASAP that a normal high schooler knows more than an EMT-B.  They will fix that REAL fast. 


These online paramedic classes are designed for health care providers. REAL providers. Providers who may be already an RN or LVN or EMT-I or whatever. NOT FOR HIGH SCHOOLERS!!!

If you do take an online EMT, EMT Advanced, or Paramedic class you are depriving yourself and most importantly your PATIENTS quality care.

If you REALLY care and REALLy want to make a difference you should take a nationaly recognized course through a REAL hands on school.


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## DHoEMT-I (May 31, 2011)

No but they do have high school HOSA bowls. witch is meant to engage the high schools health science programs.

Its kind of cute actually haha


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## nemedic (Jun 1, 2011)

Why the hell did this reach 73 posts after the original, and nobody has yet given the right answer? Oh well, thankfully I am able to take over and save all of you egotistical maniacs:

:nosoupfortroll:
:deadhorse:
:nosoupfortroll:


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## fast65 (Jun 1, 2011)

nemedic said:


> Why the hell did this reach 73 posts after the original, and nobody has yet given the right answer? Oh well, thankfully I am able to take over *and save all of you egotistical maniacs:*
> 
> :nosoupfortroll:
> :deadhorse:
> :nosoupfortroll:



Coming from the guy that quoted himself in his sig, you can see the irony ;P


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## angrynuni (Jun 3, 2011)

I had a very good EMT instructor.

However, as good as any class can be you'll learn more in a week of doing the job then you did during your entire class.  There's so much more then textbook knowhow.  Plus, if you become a paramedic without ever having the experience of working as an EMT you're going to be clueless about how to run a scene and many other things that all the EMT-B are going to be spot on about.

I think going directly from EMT-B to EMT-P without spending time working the job is a big mistake.  Plus, you may not even like the work.


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## addictedforever (Jun 6, 2011)

The best way to learn? My dad always told me to learn as much as possible in class, do extra research, ask questions, etc. Then go work in your chosen field as the bottom on the totem pole. You will get a feel for the field and if you actually like it or not. Plus you can learn alot even when you're at the bottom. I should know. I'm at the bottom. 

And to the 17 year old, not to sound rude, because I'm only 19, but I really think you should try out as a Basic first. Find a paramedic who will be willing to mentor you. I'm fortunate enough to have five awesome paramedics like that who are willing to mentor me and answer questions. Can not imagine doing it without them. Also a mentor should be willing to "smack you upside the head" if you're coming across too cocky and know-it-all, or if you're endangering a pt. And remember no matter how much you think you know, there's ALWAYS, ALWAYS someone who knows more than you do.

I will never stop learning, and I love that!


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## mspazz (Jun 10, 2011)

What I wan't to know is why the OP delivered a dose of epinepherine without being a certified emt or medic? Do you want to get sued? Epi isn't a drug to be used without knowing why you're using it and considering the indications and contraindications.


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## fortsmithman (Jun 10, 2011)

Wouldn't the OP be covered under the Good Samaritan laws.  Maybe EMSLaw could answer that.


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## DrParasite (Jun 10, 2011)

mspazz said:


> What I wan't to know is why the OP delivered a dose of epinepherine without being a certified emt or medic? Do you want to get sued?


sued for what?  he wasn't acting outside his scope of practice, since he doesn't have one.  people carry epi pens all the time, they aren't medical providers.  my friend's 12 year old brother has one since he is allergic to bees, he can stab himself if need be.  mom can do, and she is a secretary.  neither are EMTs or medics.

plus, unless I am mistaken, there are NO contraindications for administering an epipen when used in a life threatening emergency (aside from the usual expired/discolored/hypersensativity etc which apply to all medications).

A paramedic student who was never been an EMT will have a harder time than someone who was been an emt prior.  performing a basic assessment, taking a blood pressure in a moving ambulance, or dealing with people in various stages of crisis are just some of the few things you will learn as an EMT.  you can become a medic without being an EMT, it is possible, but you will have a much higher learning curve.  can it be done?  sure, but you will be at a disadvantage.  

and that is coming form many many paramedic FTOs I have both worked with and am friends with, from at least 2 states.

plus we know that many FDs send their new hires to Zero-to-Hero programs, and we all know how well that tends to turn out


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## pa132399 (Jun 10, 2011)

I am currently looking at a medic program that take people with no expierience. From what i know is that expierience adds knowledge. I've been and EMT-B for about a year and a half and have seen some interesting calls. 

futuremedic i suggest that you get your emt-b first and have a blast. 

and in response to the epi pen issue technically he has no certification so the GOOD SAMARITAN ACT should cover him from a lawsuit.

good luck to all who are trying to further their education into the field of paramedicine i hope to be in a medic program shortly


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