# Why are most Paramedics Over Weight??



## EMTBlack

I was asked this question by a guy in class..He is going Fire and im going Medic..He asked me this question and it kind of caught me off guard..I asked hem why are most Fire Marshall's Over Weight..It was a pretty heated conversatin today in class to say the least..


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## Aidey

Well, at this point in time most Americans are overweight, so I think it would be hard to look at one specific profession and ask why the people of that profession are larger. Almost any profession you look at is going to have a large number of overweight people in it. Granted, there are exceptions in the more active professions, but that is the exception not the rule. 

That being said. For paramedics and EMTs who work in for a private company, they often spend all their time between calls sitting in the ambulance, many eat fast food or grab unhealthy snacks because they don't have time to eat a real meal. When it gets busy someone won't eat for hours, and then ends up over eating when they finally get a chance because they are so hungry. Also, the job has a higher stress level than most, which can affect things like cortisol which affect weight (not directly, it's a long explanation).


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## MrBrown

poor diet and exercise


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## WolfmanHarris

I've looked around my service and have noticed for the most part of the 400 some off medics, the majority seem to be a healthy weight. This is by no means a full survey, just an observation. I am unfortunately not counted among those.

It all comes down to diet. I eat healthier at work. At work I have to plan my meals ahead of time and pack them and when it's all laid out in front of you, you make way better choices. When I'm at home on days off I snack more. Since I started work, with no changes other than having to plan my meals around 12 hour shifts and a 1.5hr one way commute, I have lost about 10 pounds in the last few months. Sure, not commercial before/after worthy, but a healthier, more realistic rate of loss.

Exercise at work is harder and with variable schedules it can be hard to keep on a gym schedule. I'm still trying to figure this out for myself. Currently my debate is between a membership at a 24-hour gym, or buying the basic stuff I need to work out at home. I know which one is cheaper, it's more a matter of which I think I'll stick to.


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## MMiz

Nearly 70% of Americans are overweight.  Working in private EMS, I sit in my rig for nearly 12 hours, and have access to fast food and gas stations.  If I'm unwilling to pack a lunch, that severely limits my choices.  It would be one thing if I could work off all of those calories, but I find the job to be 75% sitting, 25% moving.  At the end of the shift few have the energy to exercise or work out.


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## dewd09

That's kind of odd generalization or stereotype. Wouldn't it be more pertinent to ask why doctors smoke; or why people eat greasy food?


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## itku2er

I have to agree with poor diet and exercise to a point but some do have medical problems. I have recently quit smoking I do exercise and try to eat healthy but I have put on some weight. And I also agree with the fast food adding the pounds but it easier some times to just run in and get out. Even when we arent on duty some times we do not have the proper time to exercise due to family obligations especially if you have kids they have to go here and go there do this and do that. So there are many reasons as to why people are overweight. Maybe next time you might want to choose a less heated question to ask someone.


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## MJordan2121

I am in Paramedic school and our medical director has implemented a workout plan into our school schedule. We have class M,W, F from 8-4p, do labs from 1-3p and on M,W we work out from 3p-4p in our school gym. I personally think it is a great idea and we are all getting in really good shape.


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## Sasha

MJordan2121 said:


> I am in Paramedic school and our medical director has implemented a workout plan into our school schedule. We have class M,W, F from 8-4p, do labs from 1-3p and on M,W we work out from 3p-4p in our school gym. I personally think it is a great idea and we are all getting in really good shape.



While I agree that it is a good idea to stay in shape, I don't feel that is appropriate to make mandatory gym time. Personal fitness is a personal choice, if they can not perform the duties required, then give them appropriate warning and then fire them or kick them out if they don't reach a point where they can adequately perform duties in a reasonable amount of time.


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## Aerin-Sol

MJordan2121 said:


> I am in Paramedic school and our medical director has implemented a workout plan into our school schedule. We have class M,W, F from 8-4p, do labs from 1-3p and on M,W we work out from 3p-4p in our school gym. I personally think it is a great idea and we are all getting in really good shape.



That would be pretty cool as long as it was implemented properly. It would be cool to have an hour set aside to work out with classmates and motivate each other, but not if there were required exercises.


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## triemal04

Sasha said:


> While I agree that it is a good idea to stay in shape, I don't feel that is appropriate to make mandatory gym time. Personal fitness is a personal choice, if they can not perform the duties required, then give them appropriate warning and then fire them or kick them out if they don't reach a point where they can adequately perform duties in a reasonable amount of time.


Becoming a paramedic and attending class is a personal choice too.  Where you go to school is as well.

This is something that they are doing for 2 hours a week while in class only; it's not very much, and while it'll definitely help given the condition of the average person, it's not a huge investment.  What will be good and pay off in the future is if it sticks with them and they continue to work out and exercise regularly throughout their career...which if they do that will be longer than if they don't.  The correlation between physical fitness (or lack of) and on the job injuries is pretty clear. 

Think of it this way; personal/scene safety is something that every class learns about to one degree or another, and I don't think anyone will say that's bad.  Why not have to learn about personal fitness?  It'll help with their careers just as good safety awareness will.


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## Sasha

triemal04 said:


> Becoming a paramedic and attending class is a personal choice too.  Where you go to school is as well.
> 
> This is something that they are doing for 2 hours a week while in class only; it's not very much, and while it'll definitely help given the condition of the average person, it's not a huge investment.  What will be good and pay off in the future is if it sticks with them and they continue to work out and exercise regularly throughout their career...which if they do that will be longer than if they don't.  The correlation between physical fitness (or lack of) and on the job injuries is pretty clear.
> 
> Think of it this way; personal/scene safety is something that every class learns about to one degree or another, and I don't think anyone will say that's bad.  Why not have to learn about personal fitness?  It'll help with their careers just as good safety awareness will.



There is a difference between learning about physical fitness and being forced to work out. I don't think it's a school's job to make their students work out. Granted, two hours at a gym is not very much and you are not likely to see results with a two hour a week gym regimen. However, fitness is a choice. If one is not fit enough to perform the job, then don't hire them or fire them but give them the choice of getting in shape to keep their job or continue their lazyness and seek employment or studentship elsewhere.


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## triemal04

Sasha said:


> There is a difference between learning about physical fitness and being forced to work out. I don't think it's a school's job to make their students work out. Granted, two hours at a gym is not very much and you are not likely to see results with a two hour a week gym regimen. However, fitness is a choice. If one is not fit enough to perform the job, then don't hire them or fire them but give them the choice of getting in shape to keep their job or continue their lazyness and seek employment or studentship elsewhere.


Remember, they're still in school learning HOW to be a paramedic, not looking for a job.  

Why force someone to learn about scene safety?  If they choose to ignore it then they are the one that get's hurt.  All they are getting is a brief intro into exercise; whether or not they continue to do it after school is done is their choice; just as whether or not they maintain a good safety awareness is their choice.

Paramedic school is supposed to be about learning how to be a paramedic, the medical, mental and physical aspects of it.  This is just something else for them to learn; what they do with the knowledge is up to them.

Edit:  nobody said anything about meeting any kind of standard either, just that they had to go to the sessions.  So...it's something that could be beneficial, or something they might never do again...why so against exposing them to it and explaining why it's a good thing?


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## MCGLYNN_EMTP

Paramedics really are overweight...all we do is sit sleep and eat fast food...We are useless...

OK..maybe not all of us...but I know at least a good 50% of my service is overwieght.


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## paramedichopeful

Just a joke here, but Medics sit around the station passing pictures of DOA patients and swapping glory stories while the Basics and Intermediates take responsibility of pt. care and equipment care. At least that's how it is where I'm from. We have Intermediates that do the pt. care while the basics drive. 90% of the time the Medics sit in the director's office kissing *** and eating ramen noodles. Makes sense-  physical output > caloric intake = not being a fat slob.
(btw I'm 6'3" and about 160 lbs so I would know about that equation)


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## 46Young

Maybe it's just me, but I was fairly militant regarding exercise way before I ever joined the fire service. I used to bring a pair of 50's on the bus to knock out thrusters, C&J's and snatches (an olympic movement performed with a DB in this case) in between jobs, "greasing the groove" style. I'd also do bus stop pullups and stuff, although I wasn't as diesel as these guys - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDCxH88-9X8 

I've noticed that a physically weak partner will get the fit one hurt, as they try to compensate for the other's weakness. Ever carry someone down a flight of stairs while your weak partner holds the handles at the bottom of the chair with fully extended arms, too weak and/or lazy to choke up and keep me from having to lean over excessively? How about someone too weak to get the cot up to the top for loading? Why am I always stuck loading the heavy hitters? If you need to rest at every landing while removing a pt on a stair chair, you're useless to me. If you can't roll a pt onto a sheet/blanket and carry them with me down at least one flight of stairs through a narrow hallway to the cot (for those times when the pt doesn't have the time that it takes to do a reeves), you're useless to me. If you can't help me get an unconscious flaccid pt out of the bathtub, you're useless to me. If you gas on compressions after one minute, you're useless to me. If you wake me up in the back of the rig to go to Wendy's at 0130 because you're too irresponsible to pack food for the shift, and absolutely "need" to eat, I'm flinging a box of gloves or something at your head.

Maybe it's just me, but if I were to see the ramifications of an unhealthy lifestyle on a daily basis, for example obese type II diabetics w/ HTN, CHF, amp. limbs etc. COPD'ers, post MI pts, so on and so forth I think that I'd pay a little more attention to my own health.

You don't need to be fit like a Navy Seal, and you can be 400#, as long as you can hang and do the job I won't judge.


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## Seaglass

At one place, we only have a few overweight members. Nobody's obese. We all go to the gym together when things are slow, and most everyone's idea of fun involves something seriously physical. I'm actually one of the least fit of that crowd, although I'm pretty well in shape. I don't run marathons, triathlons, or anything else like that.

At another two, I'm one of the most fit EMS-only people. It's actually kinda scary. Most of my partners can lift and carry, but not as well or as long as I'd like.



46Young said:


> You don't need to be fit like a Navy Seal, and you can be 400#, as long as you can hang and do the job I won't judge.



Agreed. There are a few partners I run with that can't really lift, but they have pretty good reasons. They do what they can, I do what I can, and we call for help when someone's just too heavy or too far. 

There are a few others I run with that can't lift because they never stop eating and never work out. Oddly enough, they're the ones that expect me to be able to move every 300lb patient alone, and who get upset when I ask to call lift assist. Then they wonder why the fire crew is happy to see me and not so happy to see them. Or why my other partners who can't lift get a reasonably cheerful fire crew when they call for lift assist at 3am.


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## EMTBlack

*The guy..*

That asked the question is a young dude with a smart mouth..But he realized what he said when he started this conversation..For the most part the EMS runs everything, first on calls and the Fire Fighters dont do much other than put the fire out.. Unless there in a city that requires the Fire Fighter's to be Paramedic certified.. I have nothing but respect for any EMT due to the stuff that is required by them to see and do..


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## DT4EMS

MJordan2121 said:


> I am in Paramedic school and our medical director has implemented a workout plan into our school schedule. We have class M,W, F from 8-4p, do labs from 1-3p and on M,W we work out from 3p-4p in our school gym. I personally think it is a great idea and we are all getting in really good shape.



I think this is a great idea! IMO since most police academies require physcial fitness during the academy.......... why can't EMT/Medic school require the same?

When we teach "Physical Fitness in EMS" as part of our regular classes....... we stress the importance of how regular exercise can help ALL EMS providers in the following areas......

Stress Reduction- Because of course........ no one in EMS has stress

Overall Strength- Because back/shoulder injuries NEVER occur in the field....

Increased survival chances when faced with deadly force encounters

Increased Cardio health!

Increased self-esteem..... helps reduce the "Yeah, we hire them by the pound" when people talk about co-workers.

One of my main reasons for staying in shape is.......... I want to be able to play in the yard with my grandkids........ when I have them


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## dojomlns

i took off 30 pounds this year and it was pop for me - went to tea and water and don't crave the snacks as much - now I can excercise more which is a good thing


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## johnrsemt

I will admit it:  I am over weight (yes, even Obese by the official terms)  I am 6'2"  and 260.   but losing some each week. 

 My service has access to 2 gyms;  we can only use one;  and only if we have enough people to be second out crew.  The whole thing about having to worry if we have a run puts a cramp in to work out time.

   where I work is 85 miles from where I live;  I leave at 0445  get home at 1915.  makes it hard to want to work out 4 days a week.
   In 2 weeks that will change and I will live within walking distance of work,  living with a dog that loves to be walked.
   Also:  living close to work will give me the time and energy to cook better, and eat better foods, and be able to take them to work with me.

    I stopped drinking soda 2 weeks ago,  feel better, have more energy and I feel like I have cut down on snacks.  starting to get the energy back to want to exercise more.


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## Captn' Tuddle

I guess it depends on where you work. I was talking to a Fire-EMT who works in the city who said he gets about 13-20 calls each day but the station by my place (in the suburbs) only gets 2-3. He also told me that there is less competition for women Fire-EMT/Paramedics because so few of them can meet the physical requirements. Me, being a petite (yet physically fit) woman, is relieved by this but is it true?


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## Seaglass

Captn' Tuddle said:


> He also told me that there is less competition for women Fire-EMT/Paramedics because so few of them can meet the physical requirements. Me, being a petite (yet physically fit) woman, is relieved by this but is it true?



Guess it depends on whether your system is into affirmative action. I don't actually know if mine is. The requirements are the exact same for men and women, and way fewer women pass, but I don't know the percentages who get hired. We don't have many female firefighters.


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## FDNYChick

it depends on where you work and how long youve been on the job.

i know where i work its very hard to eat right and alot of the time there are more bls calls than als calls so medics sit around mmore often


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## 46Young

Seaglass said:


> Guess it depends on whether your system is into affirmative action. I don't actually know if mine is. The requirements are the exact same for men and women, and way fewer women pass, but I don't know the percentages who get hired. We don't have many female firefighters.



Once upon a time FD's each held their own version of the PAT. It was tough, and if you could do well on it you were able to do the job. Then certain protected classes whined that the PAT was to tough, and biased against them. I don't see how. To do the job, you need to be at a certain level physically. Your fellow brothers and sisters lives depend on it.

Anyway, they got their wish with the CPAT. This test is a joke. Anyone can pass it with proper training. The academy should weed out the weak, though.


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## 46Young

I love this show, it parallels my academy experience in many ways. It's freaky how similar they are.

http://www.foxreality.com/theacademy/#/index

Too bad that more places don't hold an EMS academy. My former hosp based employer held a two week orientation which was mostly powerpoints, alphabet card recerts and ride alongs. My former third service employer held a one day (that's 8 whole hours!) of orientation and then it was into the field as a released provider, after a ridiculously quick hiring process (a few weeks). 

More of this would be a great thing for the EMS service. For one, it would ensure that all are able to do the job physically. Yearly CPAT type testing ought to be implemented to keep employees from losing their physical conditioning. It would also instill a sense of pride in their chosen profession, and would also instill a sense of accomplishment and seriousness in the profession that is severly lacking today in the absense of high educational standards. Most who are willing to endure a paramilitary style academy should be able to perform well in the field, at least as far as productivity, ethics, and attitude are concerned. The instilattion of core values in the academy certainly can't hurt. It would weed out many of the cretins working across the country currently, as in "Screw this, who do they think they are making me do all this stuff, exercising, yes sir, no sir, marching, and all. I don't wanna do all this work. I'm just doing this for the easy work and quick money. I don't want the job anymore. Let someone else have it".


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## Seaglass

46Young said:


> Once upon a time FD's each held their own version of the PAT. It was tough, and if you could do well on it you were able to do the job. Then certain protected classes whined that the PAT was to tough, and biased against them. I don't see how. To do the job, you need to be at a certain level physically. Your fellow brothers and sisters lives depend on it.
> 
> Anyway, they got their wish with the CPAT. This test is a joke. Anyone can pass it with proper training. The academy should weed out the weak, though.



I agree. I don't want standards lowered because I'm female. If I can't pass, then I need to train harder or move on. 

What did the old PAT look like vs. the CPAT, anyways? It's still widely known as the PAT in my county, and I don't know that my department has changed... I'm still pretty new. 

Another department I'm thinking of joining for fire school claims to have always had the toughest PAT in the state. They only accept their own. If they accept my initial application, I should be taking it within the next few months.


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## reaper

DT4EMS said:


> I think this is a great idea! IMO since most police academies require physcial fitness during the academy.......... why can't EMT/Medic school require the same?
> 
> When we teach "Physical Fitness in EMS" as part of our regular classes....... we stress the importance of how regular exercise can help ALL EMS providers in the following areas......
> 
> Stress Reduction- Because of course........ no one in EMS has stress
> 
> Overall Strength- Because back/shoulder injuries NEVER occur in the field....
> 
> Increased survival chances when faced with deadly force encounters
> 
> Increased Cardio health!
> 
> Increased self-esteem..... helps reduce the "Yeah, we hire them by the pound" when people talk about co-workers.
> 
> One of my main reasons for staying in shape is.......... I want to be able to play in the yard with my grandkids........ when I have them



I have to disagree with this Kip.

Physical fitness is a very important aspect of any job. But, as most push, EMS should be a higher level of education.

You are required to attend PE in grade school. Ems should be college level education and no higher level of education should be requiring physical education, unless that is your major.

We are not in a police or fire academy. We are in an educational class. Where you are paying good money for an education. That extra 2 hours a week could be spent on more lab or lectures.

By the time you get to this level, you should be an adult. Physical fitness is your own personal choice, not something to be forced on you.

One person had it right, it is a personal choice of what school you attend. I would be choosing a school that was more worried about providing a quality education, then my physical fitness.

If you are unfit to preform the duties, that will come out when the you hit the job. It will then be your choice, as an adult, to become physically fit to do the job or fail!


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## 46Young

Seaglass said:


> I agree. I don't want standards lowered because I'm female. If I can't pass, then I need to train harder or move on.
> 
> What did the old PAT look like vs. the CPAT, anyways? It's still widely known as the PAT in my county, and I don't know that my department has changed... I'm still pretty new.
> 
> Another department I'm thinking of joining for fire school claims to have always had the toughest PAT in the state. They only accept their own. If they accept my initial application, I should be taking it within the next few months.



Each dept had it's own version of the PAT. I've been told that it's more strenuous, although I've only known the CPAT in it's present form. The CPAT is the result of litigation, what is now regarded as a fair physical exam for all types of individuals.

1/4 of my graduating recruit class were female, which is 8 of them. I'd trust maybe five of them to be on the line with me. So, females can definitely do the job if they train properly.


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## 46Young

reaper said:


> I have to disagree with this Kip.
> 
> Physical fitness is a very important aspect of any job. But, as most push, EMS should be a higher level of education.
> 
> You are required to attend PE in grade school. Ems should be college level education and no higher level of education should be requiring physical education, unless that is your major.
> 
> We are not in a police or fire academy. We are in an educational class. Where you are paying good money for an education. That extra 2 hours a week could be spent on more lab or lectures.
> 
> By the time you get to this level, you should be an adult. Physical fitness is your own personal choice, not something to be forced on you.
> 
> One person had it right, it is a personal choice of what school you attend. I would be choosing a school that was more worried about providing a quality education, then my physical fitness.
> 
> If you are unfit to preform the duties, that will come out when the you hit the job. It will then be your choice, as an adult, to become physically fit to do the job or fail!



You're right, we are adults, but leaving physical fitness as a personal choice hasn't worked out so far, with the prevalence of obesity and frequent injuries that plague our line of work. The Ancient Greeks preached the virtue of a sound mind in a sound body. A little PT to breaks up an otherwise monotonous day, and serves as a constructive outlet for the stress of the class. Some can lose focus being in class all day, and some stress relief can only be beneficial. It would hopefully set the tone for a healthy career as well. Being on the road most of the time, dealing with various stressors including lack of sleep, we need all the help we can get.


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## rescue99

46Young said:


> Each dept had it's own version of the PAT. I've been told that it's more strenuous, although I've only known the CPAT in it's present form. The CPAT is the result of litigation, what is now regarded as a fair physical exam for all types of individuals.
> 
> 1/4 of my graduating recruit class were female, which is 8 of them. I'd trust maybe five of them to be on the line with me. So, females can definitely do the job if they train properly.



My thought on fire personnel...any FF has to be capable of pulling the largest man/woman to safety regardless of his/her hormone dominance. Most anyone can pull hose and use a sledge. Few are capable of getting their largest partner out of a burning building independently. Even the CPAT does not sufficiently measure it. If I can pass a CPAT at 47, it ain't hard enough! Dispite the sissy push ups, older test methods were a better physical measurement.


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## FDNYChick

FDNY EMS academy makes us do PT in just about any weather unless its unsafe so alot of the new guys are reasonably in shape,its the older guys that arent


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## 46Young

Yo FDNYchick, I once considered working for FDNY EMS after medic school, then I found out how much better things are elsewhere. Where I'm at,  Fairfax County, VA it's fire based, and we're unbelieveably hooked up. The cost of living is less than the outer boroughs if you live out past Fairfax, Arlington, Alexandria or the better parts of DC. FF/EMT's start at 48k, medics start at 53,887 plus 4800 for having the medic cert, plus $2/hr to ride as engine medic, and $3/hr to ride the bus as a medic. All in all, it's around 66k/yr for ALS out of the academy. All necessary CME's for recert are given ON DUTY! FF's get annual 5% step increases plus COLA's up to step 11, with plenty of room for promotions. 

It's not exciting as working in the city, but you'll get tired of sitting on street corners, getting harrassed by conditions bosses, frequent mandations, and struggling to afford the finer things in life. We work 24's 10 days a month, and have legit gyms, beds, showers, day rooms, kitchens and all at our stations. We get three four day breaks monthly. If it isn't for you, spread the word to others. I'm only about five hours out from Queens. You could keep a per diem gig at a hospital if you miss NYC 911. Just something to think about.


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## Seaglass

46Young said:


> Each dept had it's own version of the PAT. I've been told that it's more strenuous, although I've only known the CPAT in it's present form. The CPAT is the result of litigation, what is now regarded as a fair physical exam for all types of individuals.
> 
> 1/4 of my graduating recruit class were female, which is 8 of them. I'd trust maybe five of them to be on the line with me. So, females can definitely do the job if they train properly.



Thanks! Given that most stations around me all mostly have different tests, I think it's safe to say that they haven't switched over from their old PATs. 

The whole "fair exam" thing has always been a bit confusing to me. Some people are naturally taller, stronger, have more lung capacity, or whatever than others. Everyone can train, but some people will always have to train harder than others, and some others just can't make it even with tons of training. The only way of making a test fair that I can see is to make all items directly relevant to the job... and every PAT I've seen meets that. They just have different times, different stations, or a different number of stations. 

Depending on which station we're talking about, whether I'd trust my possible future crew members to have my back really depends. At one, everyone is really fit, but some are rather immature, and I wouldn't trust several to resist the temptation of playing a hero. At another... well, I generally agree that you should be able to get your largest crew member out, but I think there are bigger problems if he's approaching obesity.


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## Buzz

If someone is in a paramedic program, it's a pretty safe bet to say they are preparing themselves to become a paramedic. Yes, there should be a higher emphasis on education regardless of whether or not physical fitness is included in that, but to look down on a program because they are taking a progressive stance is just stupid. 

You're attending the program in preparation to do a specific job. Your education is important, but what good is that education if you aren't able to physically perform the job?


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## Shieldheart

In my college, paramedic candidates are required to pass a 1.8 km (~1.2 mile) run in under 11 minutes.  At the same time, we are taught that paramedics never ever run while on the job.  It seems a little inconsistent doesn't it?


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## rescue99

Seaglass said:


> Thanks! Given that most stations around me all mostly have different tests, I think it's safe to say that they haven't switched over from their old PATs.
> 
> The whole "fair exam" thing has always been a bit confusing to me. Some people are naturally taller, stronger, have more lung capacity, or whatever than others. Everyone can train, but some people will always have to train harder than others, and some others just can't make it even with tons of training. The only way of making a test fair that I can see is to make all items directly relevant to the job... and every PAT I've seen meets that. They just have different times, different stations, or a different number of stations.
> 
> Depending on which station we're talking about, whether I'd trust my possible future crew members to have my back really depends. At one, everyone is really fit, but some are rather immature, and I wouldn't trust several to resist the temptation of playing a hero. At another... well, I generally agree that you should be able to get your largest crew member out, but I think there are bigger problems if he's approaching obesity.



Kinda gets down to personal responsibility...as always. For colleges, it's about generating tuition. They could not care less probably. Adults shouldn't have to be told to stop filling our chops full-o-chops!


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## ExpatMedic0

I call it the "Paragut"


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## bunkie

Shieldheart said:


> In my college, paramedic candidates are required to pass a 1.8 km (~1.2 mile) run in under 11 minutes.  At the same time, we are taught that paramedics never ever run while on the job.  It seems a little inconsistent doesn't it?



It does, but I think 1.5 miles in 11 minutes is pretty fair.


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