# I beleive Hatzolah should be disbanded.



## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/15/n...volunteer-ambulance-units.html?pagewanted=all

If the above happened to anyone else.....?

I still do not get, that a public safety agency, regulated by New York State, can have a requirement that one is JEWISH. 

Imagine the outcry if there was a muslim or even christian service......

My vollie had jewish people, unmarried, and under 25...

I beleive volunteer ambulance services should cover a geographic area, not a religeon/ethnicity.

Hatzolah recieves grants of public money, and contributions are tax deductable...and the heads guy makes $200,000K a year....

WTF ?

If this money were channeled into a public EMS agency, where any qualified person can work, what would the difference be.

They respond in POVs, and abuse the lights and sirens, the NYPD are openly afraid to challenge them, ever.


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## Aidey (Aug 2, 2010)

Why? They are definitely not the first to do an esophageal intubation that has a bad outcome. Alos, Hatzolah does cover a region. It isn't like they ask you your religion before they treat you.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes ANYONE could have done a bad intubation, yet, that tech operated beyond his scope of certification.

Anyone else would have had their certification yanked.

And they take public money and set aside to serve a distinct demographic.

And their opertunities are only for married jewish males.

That money could funs a public EMS system that anyone with the background and intrest in EMS could serve with.


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## Sassafras (Aug 2, 2010)

Why are we complaining over them all being Jewish?  It's their right as a minority to hire who they want and as a private company.  That's like getting mad at the local hospitals for being catholic and hiring only catholics (not that I'd go there since they refuse to do tubal ligations for women on principle lol).  Off to read the article so I can understand a bit more.


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## DaniGrrl (Aug 2, 2010)

It sounds like the bigger issue is that the oversight is unclear. The article says most of their funding comes from synagogues and they provide care to anyone not just Jews, though they probably have quite a leg up on dealing with orthodox religious of any sort which is probably convenient in NYC.


Not to be snarky, but did you actually read the article? They don't only serve Jews. Also, the guy who did the intubation was not performing outside his scope based on the rules that his agency has to follow as they are registered rather than certified.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

I know exactly what to do with myself since there are no EMT-b opportunities.

I am going to video them driving POV lights and sirens, follow them, and listen to scanner to see if there is an actual call.

I will video females driving lights and sirens through traffic.

I will video the placcarded POV cars illegally parked outside department stores, with females walking back to them with shopping bags.

I will publicize those videos.

I know that they pay 1/2 of what everyone else pays for the EMT class where I took it, ergo, the other students subsidize Hatzolah training.

I am also learning how they have that schools test bank on file, I will get the facts and report them.

However, I am certain it will blow over, the same way assaulting a cops son, and pressuring people to give up their damn kidneys gets blown over as well....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/nyregion/30organs.html

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...about-kidney-trafficking-7-years-ago-1.280718

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/19/nyregion/19crown.html


If anyone faces criminal charges they can just run to Isreal....


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Sassafras said:


> Why are we complaining over them all being Jewish?  It's their right as a minority to hire who they want and as a private company.  That's like getting mad at the local hospitals for being catholic and hiring only catholics (not that I'd go there since they refuse to do tubal ligations for women on principle lol).  Off to read the article so I can understand a bit more.




Those catholic hospitals can not discriminate with who they give jobs or health care to.

They can refuse to do certain procedures not required by law....but Hatzolah is the only health care organization that discriminates who they have work for them.

And they recieve public money grants for equipment etc, buy equipment sales tax free...unlike normal company...and donations reduce the taxes of the people that donate....

So why cant EVERYONE be taxed for an EMS service that ANYONE could serve with...


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## DaniGrrl (Aug 2, 2010)

The other articles you posted have nothing to do with your original article, unless you're implying that the Jews are out to get you. h34r: Maybe you also need a tin foil hat?


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Sassafras said:


> Why are we complaining over them all being Jewish?  It's their right as a minority to hire who they want and as a private company.  That's like getting mad at the local hospitals for being catholic and hiring only catholics (not that I'd go there since they refuse to do tubal ligations for women on principle lol).  Off to read the article so I can understand a bit more.



I am not compaling about them being jewish.

I think in the USA anyone should be able to join any group that is public safety oriented, like fire, police or ems.

An ambulance is not a cultural or social group.


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## Aidey (Aug 2, 2010)

What on earth are you going on about? You have ceased making any sense.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

*Read this - does 1/2 million make sense...?*

http://www.vosizneias.com/59939/201...arly-half-a-million-grant-from-assemblywoman/


1/2 a million dollars pumped into NYC FDNY EMS could have hired a lot of techs, to serve EVERYONE.

Those people in hatzolah should work for FDNY or a vollie that accepts any qualified person regardless of gender, age, marital statue, ethnicity or religeon.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Aidey said:


> What on earth are you going on about? You have ceased making any sense.



does this make sense?

http://www.vosizneias.com/59939/201...arly-half-a-million-grant-from-assemblywoman/


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## DaniGrrl (Aug 2, 2010)

No, it doesn't clear things up at all. A grant doesn't mean that the group should be disbanded. You're just mad because you can't get a job with them.


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## 8jimi8 (Aug 2, 2010)

convert and get married, then you can destroy them from within!


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## Sassafras (Aug 2, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> Those catholic hospitals can not discriminate with who they give jobs or health care to.
> 
> They can refuse to do certain procedures not required by law....but Hatzolah is the only health care organization that discriminates who they have work for them.
> 
> ...



I've seen catholic hospitals who only hire catholics.  Somehow they get away with it.  Many non health care organizations get grants, hire only their own and get tax reductions for donations.  It's the nature of religious organizations and this one just happens to be healthcare related.  I don't really get too upset about things like this.  At least this particular organization is helping people.  I've seen organizations do real harm to their communities and still keep their tax exempt status and get their government kickbacks for being non profit.  This I can't seem to get upset about.

Should we insist that schools only hire everyone?  Private schools should not get grants either.  They are educating our children after all.  It's just too sticky to get upset about this particular unit, when I know a large portion of non profit organizations cater only to their kind.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

How can a grant of public money go towards a specific group ?

And really, could any other group have its own ambulance service?

Could a muslim group do that?

And dont give me any 911 crap....

The same idiots that think all muslims are terrorists are the same idiots that thought all japanese and germans were nazis, and all russians were commies....

Really, imagine a MUSLIM ambulance service getting a 1/2 $ grant.........

It is my opinion that ambulance services should be open to ANYONE to serve in.

You can agree or disagree. MAybe if you disagree, some executive at a private ambulance company will give you a tech job for $9/hour....?

http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=2749


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Sassafras said:


> I've seen catholic hospitals who only hire catholics.  Somehow they get away with it.  Many non health care organizations get grants, hire only their own and get tax reductions for donations.  It's the nature of religious organizations and this one just happens to be healthcare related.  I don't really get too upset about things like this.  At least this particular organization is helping people.  I've seen organizations do real harm to their communities and still keep their tax exempt status and get their government kickbacks for being non profit.  This I can't seem to get upset about.




I go to an Orthodox Christian Church.

There are two nurses and a social worker that work for catholic hospitals. I have even seen jews working in them.

Lets take a census.

There is not ONE non-jew in Hatzolah.

So what if it is volunteer. That experience they receive is invaluable....so are the VAS plates and parking placards (which noone should have off durty.)


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## DaniGrrl (Aug 2, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> convert and get married, then you can destroy them from within!


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## Sassafras (Aug 2, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> How can a grant of public money go towards a specific group ?
> 
> And really, could any other group have its own ambulance service?
> 
> ...



I can assure you if the muslim ambulance service exists it's gotten a grant.  The federal government (if this is a federal grant) does not discriminate against what groups funds go to.  If they meet with the check list that must be done when applying for grants (which is a long drawn out process btw) and the funds are there, they get the grant.  I would encourage you to do some studying on grant applications.  Any group can gain access to funds.  It goes along with the freedom of religion and our right to assemble. It's just better if they actually help their communities with the money vs hoarding it for their own purposes.  Regardless of who they hire, this unit is helping the community.  And from what I'm reading they are helping others regardless of their faith which is a lot more than I can say for private schools.


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## Aidey (Aug 2, 2010)

I believe most Hatzolah branches are 501c3 registered, which means they can apply for grants if they wish. I'm really failing to see what on earth is the big deal here.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Sassafras said:


> I can assure you if the muslim ambulance service exists it's gotten a grant.  The federal government (if this is a federal grant) does not discriminate against what groups funds go to.  If they meet with the check list that must be done when applying for grants (which is a long drawn out process btw) and the funds are there, they get the grant.  I would encourage you to do some studying on grant applications.  Any group can gain access to funds.  It goes along with the freedom of religion and our right to assemble. It's just better if they actually help their communities with the money vs hoarding it for their own purposes.  Regardless of who they hire, this unit is helping the community.  And from what I'm reading they are helping others regardless of their faith which is a lot more than I can say for private schools.




That is going off topic but since you brought it up, yeshivas only let jews in, yet, catholic or other christian schools will let anyone sit in, they must attend the religeous classes, and be tested on the material, but are not required to 'believe' it.

I know a jewish girl, my old bosses daughter, went to christian high school.

That boss did insurance investigations that would bust the hassidim on 47th st, so the family was persona no grata from EVeRY shul and EVERY yeshiva...


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 2, 2010)

Aidey said:


> I believe most Hatzolah branches are 501c3 registered, which means they can apply for grants if they wish. I'm really failing to see what on earth is the big deal here.





apparantly it does not bother you.

however, everyone chimed in to bash red crescesnt.......

I wonder what would happen if red crescent apllied in NYS....

and got public money.....

al the so called "patriots' would protest....the same idiots who considered being russian with being a commie in the cold war....you know russian churches were spied on the same way mosques are now...

Try convincing the yahoos that there can be radical violent muslims, spearate from others, just like chritians...


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## Aidey (Aug 2, 2010)

You are making a lot of blanket statements about how other religions operate. I'm pretty sure with some research you could find a number of different religious groups that exclude non-members from certain locations/activities.


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## Sassafras (Aug 2, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> I go to an Orthodox Christian Church.
> 
> There are two nurses and a social worker that work for catholic hospitals. I have even seen jews working in them.
> 
> ...



And I've got a Jewish friend who was hire in a doctors office and things went calmly until they found out she was Jewish and was pushed out withint two months.  That practice only hires white anglo saxon protestants and they are doing it illegally since WASPS are considered the majority.  She left the practice and all her patients freaked and followed her to her new practice.  

I can assure you the catholic hospital where I live hires only Catholics.  That'd be like me saying I don't believe this unit you are upset with only hires Jews.  You don't live by me, and I don't live by you.  I only have your word to go off of.  

The fact is, both you and I are new to this venue.  We don't get the luxury of making our own rules and deciding how things should be practiced when they've been working fine without us for more than likely decades.  Just because we don't understand it, doesn't mean that it is illegal, or even morally inept.  It just means it's different than how we understand the world.  But take a deep breath.  It's not the end of the world if this unit doesn't hire you.  Really would you want to deal with the whole mess of working surrounded by people who believe differently than you?  What about when the first woman starts her menses when you're there (I don't know if you are male or female), and becomes hands off.  Are you ready to deal with the whole mikvah deal (did I spell that right or even call it right?).  This is not a big deal in the grand scheme of life.  Definitely not in the grand scheme of your life.  There are and will be plenty of other positions more suited to you and your personality and you will benefit greatly there.  You will get a job.  It may take time and patience, but it will happen.  It took me about a year to get hired with an IFT part time.  I know the stress of wanting a job and not getting one, then watching those less qualified get it over me, but I eventually found employment and so will you.  Good luck with the hunt.


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## Sassafras (Aug 2, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> That is going off topic but since you brought it up, yeshivas only let jews in, yet, catholic or other christian schools will let anyone sit in, they must attend the religeous classes, and be tested on the material, but are not required to 'believe' it.
> 
> I know a jewish girl, my old bosses daughter, went to christian high school.
> 
> That boss did insurance investigations that would bust the hassidim on 47th st, so the family was persona no grata from EVeRY shul and EVERY yeshiva...



And catholic hospitals SERVE non catholics.  This unit SERVES non Jews.  You are missing the point.  You are upset over their hireing practices and getting grant money.  Try applying as an atheist teacher to the baptist school down the road and see how fast they laugh you out the door.  Who they serve is far different than who they hire to represent them as an organization and they have every right to do that.  Welcome to America.  It's what makes our country great.


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 2, 2010)

The making of blanket statements about a religion is considered to be purposely inflammatory here, so knock it off or become the focus of my complete and undivided attention.


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## LucidResq (Aug 2, 2010)

Are you familiar with the population of Brooklyn... or Hasidic Jews? I come from a Jewish family from Brooklyn. Although we're Reform, I can definitely see how having a service more attuned to taking care of the extremely large Hasidic population out there would be beneficial. It's a very, very distinct culture and their religious practices, taboos, and rules have a much larger impact on their day-to-day life than most. 

Same reason why I wouldn't be all pissed about a volunteer ambulance service geared to serving Muslims... their Islamic patients would probably feel a lot more comfortable being treated by someone who understands their cultural nuances better and "plays by their rules."  

The problems with oversight and regulation are clearly far more important and pressing than the fact this service focuses on the Jewish community. 

There are scholarships and nonprofit organizations geared specifically to benefit only certain minorities... am I pissed off that I can't get a scholarship for Mormons? No... because there are plenty of other scholarships out there I am eligible for. Same goes for volunteer agencies out there...


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## Aidey (Aug 2, 2010)

Ok. I'm going to say it. 

:nosoupfortroll:































*Sorry admins, but someone had to.


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## LucidResq (Aug 2, 2010)

As a matter of fact, I now recall a non-profit summer camp that I wanted to apply to work for last year. However, since the job application included essay questions about my relationship with Jesus and my favorite bible passage... I couldn't apply. I guess I could have made some crap up and done it anyway but if they want Christian counselors then so be it.


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## LucidResq (Aug 2, 2010)

How dare they deprive me of valuable experience!!!


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## akflightmedic (Aug 2, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> however, everyone chimed in to bash red crescesnt.......



Umm the SRCA was about non payment of wages in a foreign land. If you want to present a rational argument, you need to compare apples to apples, and this my friend wasn't.


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## Veneficus (Aug 2, 2010)

*You ain't kin...*

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the US is far from a cosmopolitan society. 

Several cultural, social, religious, economic, regional, and ethnic groups operate everyday across the nation with the exclusion of the others.

I think your position that 1/2 million going into city coffers could help expand FDNY EMS in any meaningful capacity. Most municiple organizations operate nowhere near the fiscal and operational standards of private organizations.

This is not always a bad thing either. Especially when the private organization can bring superior good or services to those seeking it or exceed the minimal government standards.

Would you rally against an oil company that prepared for spill response and mitigation prior to a major leak? Of course not. 

These "volunteer" organizations exist for many reasons. If there wasn't something for them to do, they wouldn't exist. All the people I have talked to from FDNY EMS don't have much good to say about the employment conditions. I do not think it is the panacea you make it out to be.

What is different from a volunteer group in NYC than a volunteer group in Gorgia, Wyoming, Arizona, or any other place that has volunteer EMS agencies? Should we make them become professional or close down? Who will provide EMS? Who will pay for the places that have no money for this?

You seem to be a bit new to EMS. Many just starting out have a grand idea of what EMS is, or should be, but not really a grasp on what it actually is.

Should you be able to be hired without meeting social or ethnic criteria? For certain, but why would you want to? You would always be the odd person out. It would always be a you vs. the agency battle. What would you get for all of that headache? A minimum wage job?

Some cultures do require considerable sensitivity. There are ones that will let a man or woman die because there is not a doctor of the same sex to examine them. There are religions who do not see modern medicine the same way most in the West do. They want to be treated by their values, not by others. Some of them would rather die than compromise their values, probably similar to how you feel about yours. 

If they want to set up special services to see to their own needs, why stop them? 

If you are mad because their hobby gets them things you want, then do what you need to do to join, or find someplace else. It seems their community is paying for their hobby. Your community is not paying for your career. Their ethnocentrism has created a better life for thier group than yours has created for you. Envy sucks.

There are plenty of EMS jobs today. Many want paramedics, what they are saying is the 120 hours an EMT has is not enough to be a capable care provider. That they don't want to pay for that level of service. 

Just like in many other professions, when the job market dries up in your part of the world, if you want the same job you have to move or find another profession to stay.

The choice is really yours, but if a job is what you seek, going around trashing services (even if they deserve it) on your spare time isn't going to get you one.


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## EMS49393 (Aug 2, 2010)

Does this doctors office that only hires WASPS get their employees from England? That's about the only place you're apt to find a realfull blooded Anglo-Saxon decendant.  Jus' sayin'


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## jjesusfreak01 (Aug 2, 2010)

Its important to look at this private ambulance service in perspective. They provide most of their own funding, and take some public money to cover costs, but provide a much needed service to the area for substantially cheaper. Sure, you COULD shut them down because you don't like their hiring practices, but then you'd either end up with no service in their area or having to pay a lot more. Better to enforce training standards, make sure the patients are getting top notch care, and then leave them alone.


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## Sassafras (Aug 2, 2010)

EMS49393 said:


> Does this doctors office that only hires WASPS get their employees from England? That's about the only place you're apt to find a realfull blooded Anglo-Saxon decendant.  Jus' sayin'


Touche.   But the rest stands...white protestant male predominantly because the ladies belong home edumacatin' the chilluns. Anything other than a branch of protestantism is frowned upon around here.


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 2, 2010)

Looks like y'all missed it but he must have searched long and hard to find an article that puts Hatzolah in a bad light as the date on the top is from 1995. 

BTW EMTSeekingfirstjob,
How is this helping you find employment?


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## Rob123 (Aug 2, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> They respond in POVs, and abuse the lights and sirens, the NYPD are openly afraid to challenge them, ever.





emt seeking first job said:


> ...the placcarded POV cars illegally parked outside department stores, with females walking back to them with shopping bags.



I sense a little jealousy.
If you're interested, you don't have to be a member of Hatzolah to get VAS plates. 

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/emerg.htm


> *Volunteer Ambulance Service*
> (Passenger Class vehicles only)
> Requirements: letter from ambulance company, on ambulance company letterhead.


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## DaniGrrl (Aug 2, 2010)

citizensoldierny said:


> Looks like y'all missed it but he must have searched long and hard to find an article that puts Hatzolah in a bad light as the date on the top is from 1995.



MWAHAHAHA I didn't even notice. Classic. I needed that laugh.


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 2, 2010)

citizensoldierny said:


> Looks like y'all missed it but he must have searched long and hard to find an article that puts Hatzolah in a bad light as the date on the top is from 1995.
> 
> BTW EMTSeekingfirstjob,
> How is this helping you find employment?



No sense rehashing something that is 16 years old.

Thread closed.


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