# IL: EMT-B personal oxygen tank



## machin3 (May 25, 2012)

Hey everyone, I just registered here to get a little guidance about carrying personal equipment in the car. I was wondering if we can carry oxygen tanks in the trunk or something like that. Im planning to get a jump kit and thought i would also grab a tank like a size D or something. 

I work for a private company so in our station we have a tank filling port, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Just wondering if I would be able to carry a tank?

This is for illinois which has a pretty low scope of practice, so I just want to clarify.

Thanks everyone!


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## Aidey (May 25, 2012)

The real question is why would you?


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## ffemt8978 (May 25, 2012)

NO, you would not be able to carry a tank in your personal vehicle unless your department issues it to you.

1) Oxygen is a drug, and under whose authority would you administer that drug?
2) Under whose authority (doctor) are you going to order the medical supplies like NRB and NC?
3) What documentation are you planning on keeping in your vehicle to prove that you have met all federal, state and local requirements pertaining to compressed gas cylinders?

Remember that oxygen administration can cause more harm than good, and it is certainly over-administered in an EMS setting as it is.  What benefit do you expect to gain from it?


** Note to all other members - go easy on the flame war or I'll have a busy weekend and yours will be short. **


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## machin3 (May 25, 2012)

Ok I was just unclear about the regulations. But now I understand. Thanks for the replies.


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## Pneumothorax (May 25, 2012)

Lol is this a serious post?!


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## Tigger (May 25, 2012)

machin3 said:


> Hey everyone, I just registered here to get a little guidance about carrying personal equipment in the car. I was wondering if we can carry oxygen tanks in the trunk or something like that. Im planning to get a jump kit and thought i would also grab a tank like a size D or something.
> 
> I work for a private company so in our station we have a tank filling port, so that wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> ...



The scope of practice thing is not really relevant when you are not on duty, especially if you're only working for a private company. Once you leave work, if you want to be Good Samaritan that's fine, but maybe just stick to first aid and not administering any medications...

Also filling your own personal 02 tank off of the company's oxygen (that they bought) would result in your termination where I work, and I imagine this is true in many other places.


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## machin3 (May 25, 2012)

nice to see people's ego showing here. It was just a question, calm down.  <_<


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## bigbaldguy (May 25, 2012)

Next grumpy poster gets my full and undivided attention for the next 3 days because I have nothing to do this weekend. Go ahead make my day.


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## Medic Tim (May 25, 2012)

machin3 said:


> nice to see people's ego showing here. It was just a question, calm down.  <_<



The search feature would have answered your question. It is asked frequently. This thread is actually going much better than I thought it would. I know it is very exciting starting out in ems but just because you have emt after your name doesnt me you have to turn into a ricky rescue or super Whacker. Not saying you are one but the image I get in my head and I am sure others do as well when they see these posts is . A brand new emt who is ems everything. Multiple pagers radios. Jump bags you name it.


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## JPINFV (May 25, 2012)

Tigger said:


> The scope of practice thing is not really relevant when you are not on duty, especially if you're only working for a private company.



Unless it's a volunteer "respond when you want" job, what difference does it make whether it's private, non-profit, 3rd government agency, or EMS based fire suppression?


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## Tigger (May 25, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> Unless it's a volunteer "respond when you want" job, what difference does it make whether it's private, non-profit, 3rd government agency, or EMS based fire suppression?



That's what I meant. No private company wants you responding in your POV to their calls while on the clock for them. Or at least I hope so...


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## JPINFV (May 25, 2012)

Tigger said:


> That's what I meant. No private company wants you responding in your POV to their calls while on the clock for them. Or at least I hope so...



I'd hope no paid EMS based fire suppression service wants their employees jumping calls in their own POV when off duty. 

I'd hope that no third service (which is only a "private" service in terms of IAFF propaganda) wants their employees jumping calls in their own POV when off duty.

It's not a "private vs other" issue, unless EMS based fire suppression is suddenly a private entity.


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## Tigger (May 25, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> I'd hope no paid EMS based fire suppression service wants their employees jumping calls in their own POV when off duty.
> 
> I'd hope that no third service (which is only a "private" service in terms of IAFF propaganda) wants their employees jumping calls in their own POV when off duty.
> 
> It's not a "private vs other" issue, unless EMS based fire suppression is suddenly a private entity.



I was hoping that went without saying.

Just responding to the OPs original post where he mentioned that he works for a private company, sorry I failed to cover every potential base with my reply...


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## bigbaldguy (May 25, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> Unless it's a volunteer "respond when you want" job, what difference does it make whether it's private, non-profit, 3rd government agency, or EMS based fire suppression?



Holy cow it's a rare sighting of the much beloved JPINFV beastie.


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## mycrofft (May 26, 2012)

I don't know about your state, but in Calif it turns out laypersons can use a fixed 6 LPM device without medical oversight. NO flow meter, just on/off and tank level.

Oxygen cylinders in a private vehicle has ramifications for safety, especially in a nice gasketed trunk, and a vehicle which is unmarked for oxygen carrying and not usually expected to be doing so.

Carrying a kit with stuff beyond simple first aid can call into question whether you are a Good Samaritan or a freelancing independent if you should be sued. Doing anything beyond first aid usually requires that you be working under a set of protocols and medical control.

Oxygen is not free, your employer might be a little uncertain about you filling cylinders at their fountainhead.


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## Chris07 (May 26, 2012)

I don't think I'd want an O2 tank in the trunk of my POV. A good rear-ender accident and you'll have yourself a real rocket...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEJGNLTo84


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## JPINFV (May 26, 2012)

Chris07 said:


> I don't think I'd want an O2 tank in the trunk of my POV. A good rear-ender accident and you'll have yourself a real rocket...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEJGNLTo84




Let's be honest, though, the amount of force that an M tank can generate and a D tank aren't the same and I don't see many people who would want an O2 tank putting an M tank, or even an E tank in their car. Safety precautions needs to be taken besides just throwing a jump bag with an O2 tank inside a car, but that's hyperbole given the conversation.


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## Chris07 (May 26, 2012)

Exaggerated? Certainly. Regardless, a 5lb chunk of aluminum under 2,000psi would make me a little nervous in my POV. Either way you're correct that safety needs to be in mind if one decides to accept such a risk.


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## mycrofft (May 27, 2012)

I saw the result of a 15lb nitrogen cylinder (illegally) filled with CO2 failure. Broke into three pieces, stem valve assembly (flew eighty feet through security screened window); top half (jagged edge jammed into a hollow core exterior door and tore it off its hinges), and bottom half (3 inch spall inside a cinder block wall). Overpressure stage helped door on its way. Underpressure stage caused nearby pressurize water extinguishers to blow their bottom seams and fly up into the drywall ceiling, causing circular holes, then fell back to the floor; a pickup truck a few feet from the cylinder with doors and windows closed had the rear window pop out of its foam seal and fall unharmed into the bed. No one was there so no injuries.

CO2 has six times the expansive energy as air. The cylinder did not shoot like a rocket. 

Anyway, O2 riding around in a private car has some real drawbacks.


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## MRSA (May 27, 2012)

You're kind of being a Ricky Rescue. Honestly, I thought the same thing when I first got into the field; I wanted to saddle up with everything but you'll come to find the best thing you can do as an off duty tech is call 911 and keep everyone calm and triage if applicable. If you have ONE person that needs oxygen, you have several and there's no sense in killing yourself in trying to figure out whose going to get the o2 and who isn't.

Also if you get into a car accident yourself and you damage the tank that could kill yourself or someone else.

I highly recommend not having an o2 tank in your personal vehicle. You'll come to find that the best thing you can do is keep people calm and call for help, and even better if you can give that dispatcher information about who needs extraction and how many patients there are.


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## EMT John (May 27, 2012)

machin3 said:


> Hey everyone, I just registered here to get a little guidance about carrying personal equipment in the car. I was wondering if we can carry oxygen tanks in the trunk or something like that. Im planning to get a jump kit and thought i would also grab a tank like a size D or something.
> 
> I work for a private company so in our station we have a tank filling port, so that wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> ...



Regardless of the safety precautions and everyone giving you crap for having the ricky rescue mindset... If you were to put the O2 tank in your vehicle your masks are going to ether expire or your going to have to Hydro your tank many times before you actually use it. I had a trauma bag when I first became a EMT and I'm sure everything is dried out and expired 10 fold. The reality is that your going to drive by an accident, see everyone moving fine and move on. If you don't see someone moving and looks like there injured your going to pull over and ask whatever bystander stopped before you if they dialed 911 get the yes answer and move on. 

The one day I do have to use my trauma bag I'll just improvise with dried out expired equipment. All works the same, more or less. 

Don't feel bad for asking. That's what we're here for. Some people just like to try to show off their egos. We've all been new at one time or another. Keep a good first aid kit in the car, CPR mask and a mag light. You'll be fine.


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## NYMedic828 (May 28, 2012)

And what absolutely life saving heroics per-say will you need this oxygen tank to perform?

Most of our patients don't even need oxygen. 

Many of us had that mentality at one point. My POV used to have all the buff lights and all that when I was younger. You come to realize pretty quickly its all worthless. Not once have I had to stop at the scene of an MVA I was passing or anything for that matter. Actually I'm lying, I gave a rollerblader a band-aid once.

I have an issued bag in my vehicle I occasionally use when I take the flycar home, thats about it.

Maintaining expiration dates alone is a complete PIA.

If it wasn't issued to me, no chance in hell id bother keeping it in the car.


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## 18G (May 29, 2012)

There was a time (yes admitting to being infected with whacker syndrome in the mid-late 90's) I carried a D cylinder in my vehicle and used it quite a few times on dispatched calls. 

We were mainly volunteer and supplemented with paid staffing. Many times the ambulance would respond single provider and I would meet them on-scene for staffing. So in these cases, I got onscene first and if needed could provide oxygen. We operated our own repeater system so I had direct contact with the station and responding unit. 

I used my own bottle on a priority 1 MVC patient I came up on while driving to work one morning. Kid was being asphyxiated by the seatbelt in his mangled car. So had to do the whole OPA, BVM and oxygen thing. 

I wouldn't recommend it now especially with the evidence pertaining to oxygen therapy. And it did concern me with having an unsecured gas bottle under high pressure in my vehicle. 

As others have said, not a good idea unless some kind of unique circumstance. In my case, my Chief supported it and was aware and would exchange the bottle for me if needed. An AED would be much more beneficial if you really want to carry something to make a difference. Not sure if you would be allowed to or not in your state and $$$ is definitely a factor.


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## mycrofft (May 31, 2012)

For the love of sweet jehosaphat not the "get an aed" thing again!:rofl:

How about a nice fire extinguisher? OR a parrot?


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