# Is an Associates Degree worth it?



## wanderingmedic (Jan 28, 2013)

I am trying to select a school to do my paramedic training at. I have been an EMT for two years now and am ready to take on the challenge of bring a Medic.  It seems like every program I have applied to has different requirements for their AAS in Paramedicine. 
Should I factor this into my decision process? 
Is it worth getting an AAS in Paramedicine when I am working on a Bachelors anyways? 
Do potential EMS employers care? 

It is cheaper to skip the AAS, as there are a several gen eds that will not transfer/or do not have to take for my BS.  If it is worth the extra $ I am okay spending it, I just want to make sure it is money well spent.

Thanks!


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## Medic Tim (Jan 28, 2013)

I was able to transfer most all of my AAS degree credits to a state university. See what you can work out so you don't have to retake a bunch of classes. I also had taken 2 years of gen eds and nursing before switching to ems. It made the Medic program much easier having already taken microbiology, chemistry, pathophysiology and a year and a half of A&P with labs.

While in most places an AAS is not required and won't give you better pay, it will better prepare you from an education and understanding standpoint. It may/will set you apart from other when applying for jobs (depending on your area)


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## 46Young (Jan 28, 2013)

The degree will not benefit you in any way for the initial hiring process, save for 2-3 states and a select few employers (rare). Employers generally care about a valid cert and typically prior field experience. You're not going to get hired quicker, or paid more (in most cases) with the degree. This may change in the future, but not at this time. For example, I asked my supervisor at my per diem IFT job if there's any bonuses for having a paramedic degree, and I was told no. A few places might give 2-3% of your salary as a bonus, but this is rare.

If you aspire to earn a management position, or move into education, then you'll need at least a four year healthcare degree, or possibly Emergency Management, or Business Admin, etc. It's common for fire departments to give points on their promo exams for education, or require a degree for promotions. 

I would lean away from choosing EMS for your four year healthcare degree when applying for a management job. An EMS degree is only relevant to the EMS field, with supervisor positions being notoriously scarce and prone to nepotism. A degree such as the BSN would be much more useful for that purpose.

EMS needs many of us to hold degrees for pay, benefits, educational requirements to have any chance of improving. But, there's no current financial benefit to getting the degree now. I would do the program through a university, get the cert, get to work, then knock off the Gen Eds to complete the degree if you want later on. That's what I'm doing right now for promotional purposes only. I couldn't otherwise justify the time expenditure and burning leave at my job at the expense of family time, not to mention the opportunity cost of working OT or per diem hours instead of going to class.

As such, I can't see why anyone would want to go for the four year EMS degree right now. You don't get a dime more in pay. I can't advocate getting a two year degree, much less a four year degree for no increase in pay or hiring preference, unless you're getting the degree for free (paid for by the employer), and have a ton of free time on your hands. If that were the case, I'd get the Emergency Management degree. That opens many, many more (lucrative) doors than does the EMS degree. That's my next project. I thought about nursing, but they typically refuse to accommodate working professionals that do rotating shift work. If they can't work with my schedule, then I have no use for them. I'm not going to burn tons of leave and be inconvenienced by having to secure and pay back work exchanges because they value teeny boppers over people who want to get the degree but also continue to work FT to support their family.

That's why I've given up on pursuing any medical degrees other than the EMS AAS. The EM degree can be done 100% online, and you can make six figures both in the public and private sectors if you bring some public safety/EMS work experience.


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## Akulahawk (Jan 28, 2013)

azemtb255 said:


> I am trying to select a school to do my paramedic training at. I have been an EMT for two years now and am ready to take on the challenge of bring a Medic.  It seems like every program I have applied to has different requirements for their AAS in Paramedicine.
> Should I factor this into my decision process?
> Is it worth getting an AAS in Paramedicine when I am working on a Bachelors anyways?
> Do potential EMS employers care?
> ...


I would skip the AAS. I would check into the requirements for an actual Associate's vs an Applied Associates. The reason I say that is that an AS degree usually has higher/more Gen Ed stuff that is required for that degree to be awarded. Essentially, you finish the 1st 2 years of college and should therefore be ready for starting your Junior year, taking "Upper Division" units. With an AAS, you may lack some of those Lower Division Gen Ed courses, and have to repeat or take additional LD coursework before officially being a Junior. Now if you're planning to transfer anyway, check with the University that you'll be transferring to and ensure that all your classes will be accepted, or at least the Gen Ed stuff, so that when you transfer, you don't have to repeat courses or have additional stuff to take.

I transferred w/o a degree. I had to take one additional course, but I basically planned to do it that way. My 1st collegiate degree was a Bachelor of Science. It's (in a way) paying off for me because now that I'm in a Nursing Program, I must only complete the nursing curriculum and I'll be awarded an ADN. On top of that, once I'm done, I can take a few more courses and I can get a 2nd Bachelors - a BSN and I won't have to go through a formal, full-on ADN-BSN program because I already have the Upper Division education, again, I just have to complete certain specific courses and the BSN is mine too. 

There is a significant downside... I'm not eligible for quite a bit of student aid, precisely because I have a Bachelor's Degree. While I could simply find an Entry-Level Masters and get aid for that, I'd still have to pay through the nose for it, and employers would probably look at me as being simultaneously underqualified (no experience) and overqualified (lots of education). 

So, the point is simple: you probably should skip that AAS if it results in you having to take additional coursework to "catch up" to where you should be to start taking Upper Division courses to finish your Bachelor's Degree.


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## Thricenotrice (Jan 28, 2013)

46Young said:


> That's why I've given up on pursuing any medical degrees other than the EMS AAS. The EM degree can be done 100% online, and you can make six figures both in the public and private sectors if you bring some public safety/EMS work experience.



You've sparked my interest. Been thinking of going in and doing a BS with no idea where to start. This may be a path ill be looking into


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## wanderingmedic (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks for the quick responses. To clarify, I am working on a BSN part time, and none of the gen eds for the AS would help with it.


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## Summit (Jan 28, 2013)

What non-EMS classes does the AAS require that the BSN doesn't???

If you want to work in OR or KS, you need an AAS. Otherwise, you'll probably get your pay boost from having a health-related bachelors (and possibly a larger one).


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## wanderingmedic (Jan 28, 2013)

Summit said:


> What non-EMS classes does the AAS require that the BSN doesn't???/QUOTE]
> 
> There is a communications class, an English class, algebra class, and a couple others I can't remember right off the top of my head. My BSN requires statistics and English composition, basically no other gen eds unless you count psychology, patho psychology, and developmental psychology as gen ed.


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## Summit (Jan 28, 2013)

If you are missing an algebra class and don't have one, you could CLEP. If you are missing a communication class, I'd personally just take it if I had the time, but that's me. If you are missing a bunch, maybe don't bother?

I'm confused. Are you planning to take a paramedic program WHILE you are in nursing school? I've never heard of a part-time BSN program? Or are you not in the BSN program and still knocking out prereqs?


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jan 28, 2013)

Since Summit and I have become recent experts on this matter 

You may want to complete the AAS, here is why.

1. The CC credits are normally %50-%70 less than the university credits.
2. Plan ahead and check all your bachelors degree course requirements, perhaps its not costing you any extra time to complete this.
3. Most Paramedic AAS degree's course work that is not part of your paramedic certificate are very basic "general education" classes that most 4 year universities in the same state will require.
4.If I was a hiring manager I would hire a Paramedic AAS over a Cert Paramedic with same exp any day.
5. You will increase the number of Paramedics holding a degree, this will increase my odd's of winning the battle with the nurses in the other thread, but in all actuality will help our entire profession as a whole progress.


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## Summit (Jan 28, 2013)

For most of the reasons Schulz just listed, I recant my advise to possibly skip AAS and agree: pursue AAS.

EXCEPT: don't even think about NS and P school at the same time. You will be forced to quit one as soon as clinical/classes conflict. Also, if you aren't taking nursing classes and are just working on prerequisites, don't call yourself a BSN student.


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## Veneficus (Jan 28, 2013)

schulz said:


> 1. The CC credits are normally %50-%70 less than the university credits.



I would offer 4 cautions on this.

The most important is most Universities require than a certain amount of credits of your degree come from their institution, so if you take too many courses at the CC, you will be paying the University for those same credit hours.

Secondly, some universities have strict rules on how many and what level those credits transfer. I know of one university that only offers elective credit towards their degrees for CC courses. I know of another one that does not consider CC science courses equal to theirs and will only offer credit for "science for non-science majors," which makes your CC courses useless for any healthcare degree.

Thirdly, as I mentioned before, even when taught by the exact same professors, those classes are not always equal. There are different curriculum requirements. You may find that the CC courses are too basic for your higher level University courses.

Finally, if you ever decide med school is your goal, most will not accept CC science courses.

When you have to pay twice for either the same course or credit hours, you do not save money.


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## wanderingmedic (Jan 28, 2013)

Summit said:


> EXCEPT: don't even think about NS and P school at the same time. You will be forced to quit one as soon as clinical/classes conflict. Also, if you aren't taking nursing classes and are just working on prerequisites, don't call yourself a BSN student.



I didn't want to stur up controversy...but I am looking at "accelerated paramedic programs" or taking a year off from NS school.  I am currently a student in the University of Michigan School of Nursing. The medic program I am leaning towards would put me through all of the Medic classwork May-August, and then I would self schedule clinical rotations at the University of Michigan Medical Center or St. Joseph Hospital durring the school year to complete the medic training requirements. Since I set the clinical rotation schedule for Medic school I could work around Nursing school rotations.

UofM does not really accept outside credits for my BSN, and even if they did I have already completed all of the "non-nursing"/gen ed courses (which were Psych, Statistics, and English).   

Thanks for all of the responses and advice! I really appreciate it!

PS Pre-hospital is wayyyyyy better than in hospital butt wiping


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## Christopher (Jan 28, 2013)

azemtb255 said:


> PS Pre-hospital is wayyyyyy better than in hospital butt wiping



You might not understand what it is we do pre-hospital...


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