# paramedic to bsn



## jsoelberg (Nov 16, 2009)

Hey,
Does anybody know where I can find a thorough listing of Schools that offer a Paramedic to BSN program?


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> Hey,
> Does anybody know where I can find a thorough listing of Schools that offer a Paramedic to BSN program?



hahahahahahahhhaahhaahahahhhahaahahahahahah

Sure. Just apply to any BSN program and go through the whole program like everybody else.

If you are lucky, you'll get 6 credit hours of elective for your paramedic. You need 60 credits of prereqs to get into a program.


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## VentMedic (Nov 16, 2009)

Summit said:


> hahahahahahahhhaahhaahahahhhahaahahahahahah
> 
> If you are lucky, you'll get 6 credit hours of elective for your paramedic.


 

That deserves repeating.

Unless you have an Associates degree for Paramedic with real college level A&P,  you should be looking at BSN programs without any or few shortcuts.  If you only have a cert from a medic mill....well..I repeat again Summit's post.


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## EMSLaw (Nov 16, 2009)

Of course, if you are so fortunate as to have a Bachelor's degree, and the pre-reqs (which vary, but the usual bio, chem, stats, A&P), then you can take a post-bacc BSN program and be done in 15-18 months, depending on the program.


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> Of course, if you are so fortunate as to have a Bachelor's degree, and the pre-reqs (which vary, but the usual bio, chem, stats, A&P), then you can take a post-bacc BSN program and be done in 15-18 months, depending on the program.



Which has nothing to do with having a paramedic cert except it looking nice on the admissions application.


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## jsoelberg (Nov 16, 2009)

I have found four or five schools that do offer a paramedic to bsn program, and they all state minimum requirement of the license. They have pre-requisite courses, but offer the chance to challenge each course by exam, which I am very confident in.
I repeat, I have found four or five schools already, I was just wondering if anybody knew of any more. I realize the pre-reqs, and I can handle those. 
Any *constructive* comments?


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## VentMedic (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> I have found four or five schools that do offer a paramedic to bsn program, and they all state minimum requirement of the license. They have pre-requisite courses, but offer the chance to challenge each course by exam, which I am very confident in.
> I repeat, I have found four or five schools already, I was just wondering if anybody knew of any more. I realize the pre-reqs, and I can handle those.
> Any *constructive* comments?


 
Do you want to list the programs or schools you have found?

We all probably see the same "Paramedic to RN or BSN" ads on the trade websites and magazines such as JEMS. There are also a few "EMT to Doctor" ads out there. Most do come with a catch and you seriously need to read the find print. Once you add up all the hours for the prerequisites and the core nursing classes, the credits given for the Paramedic cert are very few. Even with the 2 year transition program it is not such a deal and many that do go through the shortcuts end up very cheated and scrutinized because they skipped some of the most valuable parts of the nursing education.

Nursing is not as forgiving as EMS when it comes to getting a half-arsed education.


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## jsoelberg (Nov 16, 2009)

I have found programs at Colorado State University-Pueblo, Winston-Salem State University, Washburn University, and Wichita State University.


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## JPINFV (Nov 16, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> There are also a few "EMT to Doctor" ads out there.



Really? Darn it, I never leveraged my all important EMT-B cert to get a year off of medical school? FML!


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

http://ceeps.colostate-pueblo.edu/Nursing/BachelorCur/Pages/LPNorOtherHealthProfessionalstoBSN.aspx

Dude... they'll let an EMT do it. Seriously... you are a sucker. It's all about getting you into the program and then you TRY to "test out" of some classes. Now, think for just one second.. exactly which of these courses do you think you will successfully be able to test out of?

NSG 282 LPN Bridge to Professional Nursing
NSG 207 Nursing Pathophysiology
NSG 208 Basic Pharmacology
NSG 302 Health Promotion and Assessment
NSG 302L Health Promotion and Assessment Lab
NSG 322 Nursing Care of the Adult I
NSG 322L Nursing Care of the Adult I Lab
NSG 312 Childbearing Families or Pediatric Nursing
NSG 312L Childbearing Families or Pediatric Nursing Lab
NSG 351 Research in Nursing
NSG 332 Pediatric or Childbearing Nursing
NSG 332L Pediatric or Childbearing Nursing Lab
NSG 382 Psychiatric Nursing
NSG 382L Psychiatric Nursing Lab
NSG 420 Nursing Care of the Adult II
NSG 420L Nursing Care of the Adult II Lab
NSG 442 Public Health Nursing
NSG 442L Public Health Nursing Lab
NSG 431 Gerontological Nursing
NSG 452 Nursing Process: Synthesis
NSG 452L Nursing Process: Synthesis Lab
NSG 451 Nursing Management and Issues
NSG 461 Healthcare Informatics

MAYBE you can test out of the 3 hour pharmacology course... wow! That totally justified going to that program which is 77 credits after prereqs!!!!!!!

Washburn U gives you 11 credits for your paramedic, but they make you take a 2 hour transition course. WOOOO! That totally justifies their tuition! What a time saver... that's like 2 credits per semester!

WSU gives you 8 credit hours for your paramedic. HOLY GUACOMOLE!

Seriously, do you prereqs, get in where you can, go to school like everyone else. Fishing programs to save 8 credit hours isn't actually going to save you time or money.


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## jsoelberg (Nov 16, 2009)

From the Colorado State - Pueblo website,
These are the prerequisite courses, which, with paramedic license, allow you to start the BSN program as a junior and complete in 2 years. I have some of these requirements and can test out of many others.

SOC SCIENCE  Per General Education Requirement  3 Credits  
PSYCH 151  Human Development  3 Credits  
MATH 156  Introduction to Statistics  3 Credits  
CHEM 111  Principles of Chemistry  3 Credits  
CHEM 111L  Principles of Chemistry Lab  1 Credit  
BIOL 223  Human Anatomy and Physiology I  3 Credits  
BIOL 223L  Human Anatomy and Physiology I Lab  1 Credit  
BIOL 224  Human Anatomy and Physiology II  3 Credits  
BIOL 224L  Human Anatomy and Physiology II  1 Credit    
BIOL 206  Microbiology  3 Credits  
BIOL 206L  Microbiology Lab  1 Credit    
ENG 101  English Composition I  3 Credits  
ENG 102  English Composition II  3 Credits  
SPCOM 103  Speaking and Listening  3 Credits  
HISTORY  Per General Ed Requirement  3 Credits  
HUMANITIES  F oreign Language  6 Credits  

Total General Education Credit Hours = 43


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> From the Colorado State - Pueblo website,
> These are the prerequisite courses, which, with paramedic license, allow you to start the BSN program as a junior and complete in 2 years. I have some of these requirements and can test out of many others.
> 
> SOC SCIENCE  Per General Education Requirement  3 Credits
> ...



1. You don't have to be a paramedic to test out of History, Humanities, English, Human Development, Spanish, Stats or Chem. Most schools will let you test out with CLEP, their own test, or AP credit. CSU-Pueblo is not special here. 90% of state schools and many private schools across the country allow you to do this. Anyone can do it if they truly understand the material at a college level, not because you went to P school. You don't need to find a "P to BSN" program to test out of prereqs.
2. Nobody will let you test out of A&P or Micro. If you have college credit A&P, they'll count it of course. They expect you to show up with it. Besides, your paramedic experience hasn't given you the knowledge to test out of Microbiology.
3. If you are smart and educated, you'll get out of prereqs because of it, not because you have a P cert. P cert looks good on an app and will help you through experience. THAT IS ALL. It is not a shortcut to BSN.


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

Here is your time saver to prereq credit: College-Level Examination Program http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/exams.html

You'd better know it at the college level or you won't get a high enough score to get credit. Check with your desired school. Most want a 55 mininum (that's about a B equivelent).

Some tests available: Biology, Chemistry, Algebra, Psychology, Sociology, Human Development, various History, Spanish, English Composition

I had to CLEP out of College Algebra because my Calculus classes was considered expired after ten years.


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## Level1pedstech (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> I have found four or five schools that do offer a paramedic to bsn program, and they all state minimum requirement of the license. They have pre-requisite courses, but offer the chance to challenge each course by exam, which I am very confident in.
> I repeat, I have found four or five schools already, I was just wondering if anybody knew of any more. I realize the pre-reqs, and I can handle those.
> Any *constructive* comments?



 Don't take offense Vent,Summit and a few others who have yet to contribute just like yanking chains when the opportunity is there. Sometimes a newbie to the board starts a thread that they just cant resist. Its all good and meant to make you think,trust me on this one, so keep coming back.

 I must say even though we are different in our thinking on some subjects they are spot on and offering you very constructive criticism,it might seem harsh but especially in Vents case your getting criticism from someone with many years of experience in the hospital setting. You wont find much love on this board if your trying to short cut your way into nursing school or EMT or medic or any other school. I have been waiting for five years to get started with my pre reqs for nursing school so I know how tempting it is to try and worm in under the radar so to speak but you will regret it and it could prove to hurt you in the long run. I could give you a multitude of scenarios and reasons but I think you can figure out where we are going. If my math is correct and I start next year I should be all done with nursing school in five years this is following the footsteps of our last tech that went to nursing school starting from square one while working full time. I have been very careful to take every step on the EMS ladder starting years ago and I know I will be in my early fifties before Im all done but its important to do things the right way and I plan on getting the best education possible with no short cuts. You also have to consider how you will be accepted by your peers,you may not care but its something to think about. Constructive enough?

 In the years I have worked in the ER I have seen many techs that were medics go on to become RN's and all did it the good old fashioned way. It might help if we knew where in the world you are located and where you want to hang your RN hat once your done with school. Like almost everything else every state is different and if you want the truth every hospital has its own ideas on what is considered acceptable education. I always tell people you need to research your local market or the market that you plan on working in. You seem to have done some research but maybe dig a little deeper.


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## mycrofft (Nov 16, 2009)

*JS (can we call you JS?) (>>*

Just a friendly warning about getting your hopes up, we probably have all had them dashed by programs like those.

Look into cost as well as time saved. Ask a counselor about the success rate. It would be good to talk to someone who CLEP'ed out of a course and see if they found later it would have been better to have gotten the whole course.

Right now BSN slots in many (if not most) schools are IMPACTED due to high demand and low budgets (meaning, fewer classes). Good luck, and do not settle for a lesser degree or license on the way except for survival money.


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## jsoelberg (Nov 16, 2009)

The end goal of my education is to get that bachelor's degree and go on to medical school. I am not trying to short cut anything, I am just trying to use my previous knowledge and experience to my best advantage. I understand the hardships and possible pitfalls of some of these courses. The fact of the matter is just because I am an EMT and almost paramedic, which many people regard as a career requiring little training or intelligence, I really have been through a lot of training and my knowledge of things like A&P are pretty thorough. Thanks a great deal for the link to the CLEP website. I do appreciate the advice. I know that there will be a great deal of work involved. 
As another line of thought on this, do any of you have suggestions as to what would be my best course of action to get to medical school? Maybe a different Bachelor program would be better for me. I just want to do something that will help me to learn but might also take into account my previous experience and knowledge.


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## NJnewbie (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm a little unclear as to what education you already have.  Do you have a bachelor's?  If so, why are you considering becoming a nurse?  If you want to become a medical doctor, go to med school.  If you don't already have a bachelor's then you'd need to get one in pre-med, biology, some sort of science.  I know one person who is in med school now and another who could not get in, even though she had very good grades in college.  She is now in a master's program that will help her get into med school.  They both are young (in their mid 20's).


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## VentMedic (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> The end goal of my education is to get that bachelor's degree and go on to medical school. I am not trying to short cut anything, I am just trying to use my previous knowledge and experience to my best advantage. I understand the hardships and possible pitfalls of some of these courses. The fact of the matter is just because I am an EMT and almost paramedic, which many people regard as a career requiring little training or intelligence, I really have been through a lot of training and my knowledge of things like A&P are pretty thorough. Thanks a great deal for the link to the CLEP website. I do appreciate the advice. I know that there will be a great deal of work involved.
> As another line of thought on this, do any of you have suggestions as to what would be my best course of action to get to medical school? Maybe a different Bachelor program would be better for me. I just want to do something that will help me to learn but might also take into account my previous experience and knowledge.


 
Have you actually taken any college level classes that are part of the listed prerequisities?  The condensed version in a Paramedic class is nothing compared to the two classes required for other health care professions.   The same for even what is considered "Basic" pharmacology at a college level.  The word "Basic" is not referencing EMT-B.    There is nothing in either the EMT-B or P curriculum the will prepare you to test out of college level A&P.  As well, there is nothing in the EMT-B or P tha prepares you for nursing school and especially not the clinicals. 

Also, even if you do slip by on a CLEP test by quessing, you will find that without a good science base, you may be washed out of the program later when you can only recite a few "memorized" things and not an actual grasp of the theory behind the concepts.


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## VentMedic (Nov 16, 2009)

Level1pedstech said:


> Don't take offense Vent,Summit and a few others who have yet to contribute just like yanking chains when the opportunity is there. Sometimes a newbie to the board starts a thread that they just cant resist. Its all good and meant to make you think,trust me on this one, so keep coming back.


 
It is better he understands a few basic priniciples of reality before he signs a loan for these very expensive schools.  

As the old saying goes "They saw him coming".  

As an educator who reviews transcripts for transfer into our nursing and allied health programs, unless they have the prequisites to match up with what is required, they do not get special treatment because they are an EMT.   I would also scrutinize his CLEP if he could only show an EMT-B cert for "training".


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## medicdan (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> The end goal of my education is to get that bachelor's degree and go on to medical school.



Do you have a BS already? If not, and you want go to to med school, GO TO COLLEGE. Spend four years and get a traditional university experience. Make good grades in pre-med courses (Chem, Orgo, Bio, Physics). Consider taking additional college-level classes such as Physiology, Pharmacology, Biochemistry. Psychology, Sociology, a Health Economics/Policy class, etc.
Get a really good foundation education before moving on.

Good Luck!

Dan


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## JPINFV (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> The end goal of my education is to get that bachelor's degree and go on to medical school.



If you want to go to medical school, then don't mess around with nursing classes. Get into a 4 year college, do a major that you are interested in (and by interested in, I mean what *you* want to learn, not what you think the ad coms want. Humanities majors have a higher success rate for getting into medical school than biology majors), and get your prereqs done (g-chem, O-chem, year of biology, year of physics, year of calculus/stats will get the requirements for most schools. Some schools want a year of psych and others want a biochem course). Do some volunteering and shadowing when you have time, but your course work is going to be the most important thing. In the end, getting past the first cut (5000 applicants to 700 interviews on average) is a pure numbers game and if your GPA and MCAT isn't up to snuff, then no amount of nursing courses, EMS certifications, or any thing else will get you in to a US medical school (MD or DO). 

Working in a health care field is a small 'plus 1,' but won't overcome major weaknesses. On the other hand, changing fields from say, nursing to medicine might bring up some questions on your application.


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

JS: We are just assuming you don't have any college at this point... tell us if we are wrong.

You also need to understand that you cannot even get into any of these BSN programs UNTIL you have fulfilled all the prerequisites. They are two completely separate processes. You have to fulfill all the prereqs THEN you apply to be accepted into a BSN program.

Additionally, for the programs that actually give you a little course credit for your paramedic (eg Washburn/WSU), you cannot just graduate with your P ticket and show up. You need to work as a medic full time for at least 6 months.

And to reiterate the point, unless your P program made you take A&P at a local college, you do NOT have the A&P background to be a nurse and you WILL have to take two semesters of it at the college level to get into any BSN or ADN program.

Seriously, if you want to be an MD/DO, go get a BS in something you want to study that allows you to take med shcool prereqs. *If you get a BSN, you'll still need to take another 1-2 years at college in very hard prereqs to qualify for medschool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## mycrofft (Nov 16, 2009)

*Don't use BSN as premed.*

Check with the med school you are targeting for thier suggested premed courses.


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## JPINFV (Nov 16, 2009)

All of the suggested and required med school courses are available on each school's admissions department webpage. It's relatively easy to find, but I listed the almost universal requirments earlier. 

I also would highly advise against just applying to one or two schools. About half of the students who apply to US MD schools are not admitted. The numbers for DO schools aren't quite as easy to find, but it's also not a cake walk. When you do apply, you will want to apply as widely as you can because there is no sure thing as a guarenteed spot unless you have it in writting from the school. The proverbal "4.0 and 40" student who doesn't get in isn't a lie.


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## rescue99 (Nov 16, 2009)

jsoelberg said:


> I have found four or five schools that do offer a paramedic to bsn program, and they all state minimum requirement of the license. They have pre-requisite courses, but offer the chance to challenge each course by exam, which I am very confident in.
> I repeat, I have found four or five schools already, I was just wondering if anybody knew of any more. I realize the pre-reqs, and I can handle those.
> Any *constructive* comments?



Folks in the midwest seem to go with Excelsior more than any other. I know many a nurse who graduated through the program. Good luck in your search.


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## gicts (Nov 16, 2009)

I was able to get a 3 hour 'internship' credit at the university towards my bachelor's of science for my 40-something credit hour medic class at a different school  .Even taking into consideration the school offers a 4 hour ambulance internship for medical school. :angry: :deadhorse: . It is a wonder I haven't turned to heavy alcohol or drug abuse yet..........B)


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## JPINFV (Nov 16, 2009)

Yea... but a 4 hour internship for a premed is essentially worthless.


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## VentMedic (Nov 16, 2009)

rescue99 said:


> Folks in the midwest seem to go with Excelsior more than any other. I know many a nurse who graduated through the program. Good luck in your search.


 
Check their website.  More states are not accepting Excelsior.  Those that still do require a minimum of 700 additional clinical hours.  The other states require that you work as an RN in one of the few states that accepts Excelsior.   In my area, you will not be eligible to work in any of our ICUs and even finding a med-surg position might be a struggle.  There are too many well qualified grads from traditional programs that have done real clincials applying for these jobs. 

Once you have an entry level RN Associates degree, you can then get a BSN or whatever degree online at an accredited university.


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## Summit (Nov 16, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Check their website.  More states are not accepting Excelsior.  Those that still do require a minimum of 700 additional clinical hours.  The other states require that you work as an RN in one of the few states that accepts Excelsior.



Wow! Sketchy!

Of course any school that needs to put a link on their main page titled "Why Hiring Our Nursing Grads Makes Sense" is definitely sketchy.


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## VentMedic (Nov 16, 2009)

Summit said:


> Wow! Sketchy!
> 
> Of course any school that needs to put a link on their main page titled "Why Hiring Our Nursing Grads Makes Sense" is definitely sketchy.


 
Was this the site?

http://www.istudysmart.com/content.asp?cid=43



> Does my state board accept Excelsior College Nursing Degrees?
> 
> Most state boards accept Excelsior College Nursing Degrees. However, there are a few exceptions.
> 
> ...


 
*California Residents:*
The California Board of Nursing will not accept ADN degrees from Excelsior College School of Nursing students who enrolled on or after December 6, 2003. _(March/2004)_ 

*Colorado ASN Graduates sitting for boards:*
Anyone registered before January 1, 2006 will be grandfathered in with no changes to them as long as they keep their registration with Excelsior active by paying the applicable maintenance fee each year. Those who complete an Associate Degree and *are not* LPNs will need 750 additional clinical hours. Those who complete an Associate Degree and *are* LPNs will need 350 additional clinical hours. The state of CO is currently working on a plan to make those additional clinical hours available. _(9/2005)_


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## rescue99 (Nov 17, 2009)

Didn't say I thought Excelsior was the only way to go. I said I know a number who have gone that route. The OP was asking a question. I gave an example of one Medic to RN program I am familiar with is all. My personal choice would be to attend a state or local college.


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## CLDutcher (Nov 25, 2009)

http://www.canyons.edu/offices/pio/nr062309nursing.html

Might check this out but from what i hear from the instructors of this program is that it is a state funded program to help with the nursing shortage in CA. If that is true i would expect to see these programs starting up all over CA in the near future. The largest benefit i see from this is being able to skip the 2-3 year wait list that most california nursing programs have which start after you have completed the pre-reqs.


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## VentMedic (Nov 25, 2009)

CLDutcher said:


> http://www.canyons.edu/offices/pio/nr062309nursing.html
> 
> Might check this out but from what i hear from the instructors of this program is that it is a state funded program to help with the nursing shortage in CA. If that is true i would expect to see these programs starting up all over CA in the near future. The largest benefit i see from this is being able to skip the 2-3 year wait list that most california nursing programs have which start after you have completed the pre-reqs.


 
This has been discussed many times and the semesters they want to eliminate are the meat and potatoes of nursing. If the Paramedic skips med-surg and only does the "specialty" semesters, they will be very lost when it comes to time management of several patients with the hands on skills of assessment and tasks with several patients. This does not give them or the hospitals an advantage. The hospitals will then spend a fortune on several months of training these Paramedics wannabe RNs. This is what happened in the 80s when these programs were tried whiich caused many of the transition programs to go away. Looks like history will again repeat itself.

And California?


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## JPINFV (Nov 25, 2009)

There are plenty of programs without a waitlist. Example:

http://www.cohs.uci.edu/nursing/up_prospective_students.shtml


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## emtjack02 (Nov 25, 2009)

OP, If your goal is to be a MD/DO then I would advise against trying to get your BSN at this point.  Like another poster said so something that you like.  Currently getting into a BSN program can be very difficult, which, you probably do not need to deal with while trying to make sure things are lined up for your end goal.  While a bachelors is required go with something else...I think that will speed up your education. If you have any questions about BSN I can try to help, feel free to PM me. Good Luck


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