# EMS Jump Bag Suggestion



## F18E (Jan 22, 2013)

I am not an EMT. I am a pilot and I go flying with my wife and daughter up here in Alaska a fair bit for fun and I always bring along an old boy scout first aid bag just in case. Sadly my old bag is falling apart so I figure who better to ask than professionals on what gear is good. So I am looking for a EMT Jump bag for use as an emergency first aid/survival kit. I don't want anything to large since I need to fit it in the cargo bin and with two lady passengers space always seems to be a bit limited. I am looking for something about the size of a bookbag or fishing tackle box. Anyhow if anyone has some specific brand name or model of gear they use or a link I would really appreciate the advice.


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## F18E (Jan 22, 2013)

*EMT Jump bag*

I am not an EMT. I am a commercial pilot and I go flying with my wife and daughter up here in Alaska a fair bit for fun and I always bring along an old boy scout first aid bag just in case. Sadly my old bag is falling apart so I figure who better to ask than professionals on what gear is good. So I am looking for a EMT Jump bag for use as an emergency first aid/survival kit. I don't want anything to large since I need to fit it in the cargo bin and with two lady passengers space always seems to be a bit limited. I am looking for something about the size of a bookbag or fishing tackle box. Anyhow if anyone has some specific brand name or model of gear they use or a link I would really appreciate the advice. I don't mind spending some money to buy something worth it and I like buying made in USA when possible. Thanks!


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jan 22, 2013)

F18E said:


> I am not an EMT. I am a commercial pilot and I go flying with my wife and daughter up here in Alaska a fair bit for fun and I always bring along an old boy scout first aid bag just in case. Sadly my old bag is falling apart so I figure who better to ask than professionals on what gear is good. So I am looking for a EMT Jump bag for use as an emergency first aid/survival kit. I don't want anything to large since I need to fit it in the cargo bin and with two lady passengers space always seems to be a bit limited. I am looking for something about the size of a bookbag or fishing tackle box. Anyhow if anyone has some specific brand name or model of gear they use or a link I would really appreciate the advice. I don't mind spending some money to buy something worth it and I like buying made in USA when possible. Thanks!



Funny enough we use to use "Plano" fishing tackle boxes, and they where my fav for carrying all our medications. Anyway here are some websites for you to check out www.galls.com/ http://www.buyemp.com/ also check ebay and amazon.

You may want something often called a "trauma bag" on many of the websites, but really what ever suites you.


PS: Maybe an admin could move this to the equipment section of the forum


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh just one last tip, this maybe especially true for you since you might not use the bag everyday. I would label and categorize sections of the bag, so when something does happen you know exactly which area to open, or if something happens to you... Someone else can easily open the bag and get to the area quickly that they need. I.E. in black marker write "bandages" on a piece of tape and put that on the section of the bag where those are kept. Its easy to get lost in these things, many of them have pockets, hidden velcro compartments and zippers all over. That is why I loved the tackle box, you open it and see everything at once


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## F18E (Jan 22, 2013)

Hey Schulz,

You know I think the Plano box is a really good idea, I have a few of the "Plano waterproof" boxes and they work really well. Also thanks for the links to the vendors, if you are not in the industry you really have no idea who makes the 'real' gear. I think the Plano fishing box is probably the way to go thank you for the advice.


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## Achilles (Jan 22, 2013)

F18E said:


> I am not an EMT. I am a commercial pilot and I go flying with my wife and daughter up here in Alaska a fair bit for fun and I always bring along an old boy scout first aid bag just in case. Sadly my old bag is falling apart so I figure who better to ask than professionals on what gear is good. So I am looking for a EMT Jump bag for use as an emergency first aid/survival kit. I don't want anything to large since I need to fit it in the cargo bin and with two lady passengers space always seems to be a bit limited. I am looking for something about the size of a bookbag or fishing tackle box. Anyhow if anyone has some specific brand name or model of gear they use or a link I would really appreciate the advice. I don't mind spending some money to buy something worth it and I like buying made in USA when possible. Thanks!



Don't all commercial planes have an ACLS kit on board?


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## AtlasFlyer (Jan 22, 2013)

Achilles said:


> Don't all commercial planes have an ACLS kit on board?



Yes, but I'm reading the OPs post to say that he wants something he can take with him off the plane, for his own personal use. Generally speaking those airplane kits have to stay with the plane, I don't think the company would appreciate him running off with the airplane's kits and leaving the plane without.


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## usalsfyre (Jan 22, 2013)

Achilles said:


> Don't all commercial planes have an ACLS kit on board?


Part 121 (Scheduled airline service) yes. 

Part 135 (unscheduled air taxi) and Part 91 (the rest of aviation) no.


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## bigbaldguy (Jan 22, 2013)

Welcome to the site F18E glad to have you. 

I've merged the duplicate thread in the equipment forum with ths one.


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## traumaluv2011 (Jan 22, 2013)

This one is very affordable: http://www.dixieems.com/Dixie-On-Ca...&par=146&catname=First+Responder+Kits&pid=803


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## F18E (Jan 22, 2013)

Hi BBG thanks for the Texas welcome?

Achilles you are correct sir on a 121 carrier like the planes at work we have just about everything on-board. Enhanced Emergency Medical Kit, First Aid Kit, AED, PBE, rafts, halon bottles, and even a fancy crash axe. 

What I am looking for is something for my own personal airplane. I figured I would see what the pros suggest. For example at work 95% of crews use one brand of luggage made in Aurora Missouri called a luggage works stealth 22. It is the 'pro' luggage it will last forever and so I figured there had to be something similar for EMT jump bag. I like the suggestion Schulz made on using Plano fishing kit there are some new ones that use a waterproof gasket and cam style locks that are waterproof.
Thanks for any/all suggestions!


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## bahnrokt (Jan 22, 2013)

http://www.toughtraveler.com/remed.asp

Tough Travler is a local company to me, they make everything here in Schenectady and their EMS products are developed with and field tested by area FDs and Ambulance Services. 

But honestly, you should be asking what to keep in the bag more than what the cool bag is.


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## F18E (Jan 23, 2013)

Thanks for the link bahnrokt! I really appreciate all the advice I have received from this post. I think I am going to go with a small bag from 511 that I found on Galls (thanks Schulz), and inside use one of the Plano waterproof cam locking fishing boxes for first aid gear and other things that don't like to get wet. As far as what to put in it I am always open to ideas. But in all honesty most of what I have in this bag is survival gear for an unexpected landing. Things like matches, fishing stuff/gill net, mosquito net, and of course First aid, sam splint, celox, antibiotic, shears, etc. Noting like what you guys carry but I don't have the training so I kind of cover the basics, but I am always looking for new ideas.


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## Av8or007 (Apr 2, 2013)

Might not be a bad idea to get your wilderness first responder cert. Good idea for wilderness situations/austere environments. This includes BLS interventions and assessments as well as some more advanced measures.

http://www.wildmed.ca/wilderness-medical-courses/first-response/wilderness-first-responder.php

Wilderness Medical Associates AFAIK will also give you protocols for BLS meds such as epi for allergies or gravol. In remote settings its not a bad idea to have the extra training to manage a patient to a higher level of care. Especially if there was a crash, any PTS will likely need more than basic first aid.

The best medical kit/system is a combo of good gear and good training/education.

As for gear, it depends on what you want to carry. I'd say take the WFR then you'll have a better idea of what may be required in a wild-med situation.

The other thing that would be a good idea if you're a pilot is to see if you can take the wild-med aviation/altitude medicine module. For your aircraft, get oxygen and a pulse-ox to allow recognition and treatment of hypoxia. Get the training first though - it is essential.


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## mycrofft (Apr 2, 2013)

I need a FAQ!


Pick a sturdy colorful/visible nylon camera gear bag such as for a video camera, the size you want. It will be padded/insulated somewhat, (re)moveable dividers, and you are required to choose one with sturdy straps and zippers. No mesh if possible. Take the proper courses and fill it with stuff that doesn't break and won't outdate or freeze. Lots of cravats, duct tape, individual sterile 4X4's, SAM splint, etc etc.

A camera or laptop backpack may offer advantages, just make sure straps fit you when you are wearing a coat.


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## Tigger (Apr 2, 2013)

Av8or007 said:


> Might not be a bad idea to get your wilderness first responder cert. Good idea for wilderness situations/austere environments. This includes BLS interventions and assessments as well as some more advanced measures.
> 
> http://www.wildmed.ca/wilderness-medical-courses/first-response/wilderness-first-responder.php
> 
> ...



While I agree that a solid education is a great tool, a WFR class isn't exactly rocket science either and nothing up to and an including an EMT-B class is going to really teach you much more than to become very proficient with first aid.

In a plane crash in a remote area more than basic first aid is not really needed. If you can't treat them with basic means, they are going to likely die. And as a private citizen anyone can buy and keep Dramamine (Gravol) with you, and bring an EpiPen if so prescribed. One does not really need any training for either of those medications, thousands of people take them everyday with no ill effects. A pulse ox is not needed to determine hypoxia either, your eyes and brain will suffice.


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## Av8or007 (Apr 2, 2013)

Tigger said:


> nothing up to and an including an EMT-B class is going to really teach you much more than to become very proficient with first aid.
> A pulse ox is not needed to determine hypoxia either, your eyes and brain will suffice.



A Canadian URBAN (never mind wild-med) first responder is pretty much the same as an EMT-B. WMA teaches first responder courses for wild-med to that standard. They do have an EMT-B course with WEMT upgrade, but an WFR course will work.

As for the pulse ox, it depends on the needs of the pilot and how high they fly, but your "eyes" will only detect hypoxia once it is far gone, i.e. sats in the 70% range. A pulse ox is cheap (around $60-70 from sands.ca) and does NOT require a Rx.

FYI you don't need an Rx. for personal use epi auto-injectors, they are normally prescribed to offset the cost, as the PT doesn't have to pay if they have an Rx.

We also do not need medical direction to use BVM, and oral and nasal airways. That is an first responder skill in Canada.


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## chaz90 (Apr 2, 2013)

I think Tigger was speaking more along the lines of being able to detect signs and symptoms without a pulse ox, more than actually "seeing" signs of hypoxia when their sats are in the 70s. A pulse oximeter is simply unnecessary for any personal first aid kit, and I would argue to de emphasize it on the ambulance as well. Look for signs and symptoms of hypoxia, and trend your patient early. If they're complaining of trouble breathing, I can give them O2 without knowing what their SpO2 value is.

Sometimes I think pulse oximeters have caused serious harm to EMS. We tend to look at it on a very shallow level, partly because the readout is so simplistic. We seem to have the fallacious thought process of "Body needs O2, so more O2 is good, so SpO2 of less than 100 is a problem."


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## Tigger (Apr 2, 2013)

Av8or007 said:


> A Canadian URBAN (never mind wild-med) first responder is pretty much the same as an EMT-B. WMA teaches first responder courses for wild-med to that standard. They do have an EMT-B course with WEMT upgrade, but an WFR course will work.
> 
> As for the pulse ox, it depends on the needs of the pilot and how high they fly, but your "eyes" will only detect hypoxia once it is far gone, i.e. sats in the 70% range. A pulse ox is cheap (around $60-70 from sands.ca) and does NOT require a Rx.
> 
> ...



The point is that this is not any sort of advanced care, regardless of what class you take. Not to mention that if you're bagging a patient post plane crash, they are not going to survive. 



chaz90 said:


> I think Tigger was speaking more along the lines of being able to detect signs and symptoms without a pulse ox, more than actually "seeing" signs of hypoxia when their sats are in the 70s. A pulse oximeter is simply unnecessary for any personal first aid kit, and I would argue to de emphasize it on the ambulance as well. Look for signs and symptoms of hypoxia, and trend your patient early. If they're complaining of trouble breathing, I can give them O2 without knowing what their SpO2 value is.
> 
> Sometimes I think pulse oximeters have caused serious harm to EMS. We tend to look at it on a very shallow level, partly because the readout is so simplistic. We seem to have the fallacious thought process of "Body needs O2, so more O2 is good, so SpO2 of less than 100 is a problem."



I agree with all of the above.


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## firecoins (Apr 2, 2013)

My jump bag won't jump.


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## mycrofft (Apr 2, 2013)

firecoins, I'm so sorry...

I don't believe a pulse ox is approved to detect altitude oxygen sat levels in real time.

I am not sure if you can buy a pulse ox without a license etc. I know the results will be worthless if you are stranded on some mountaintop. A satellite phone might be a much better investment, one with GPS that reads in coordinates and not just a little plane on a map.

In USA, epi pens are Rx. Epi inhalers are coming back, but not approved to treat anaphylaxis, which is the least of your worries after a forced landing o crash. Those are burns, bleeding, fractures, and getting rescued.


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## F18E (Apr 25, 2013)

*My jump bag won't jump either...*

Hey thanks for all the advice. I ended up buying the 511 Push+R+Pack. =Red man purse... But it has a lot of space and is very well thought out. We use it around the house as the 'big' first aid kit. When we go flying it fits anywhere weighs nothing and is red so it is easy to find. I don't miss my old green Boy Scout bag at all, the quality of this new gear is way better. Here is a pic. Thanks for all the help!


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## joshrunkle35 (Apr 25, 2013)

I'd really recommend taking something like a wilderness first aid or wilderness first responder course if you're not an EMT. Knowledge to make gear from your surroundings and how, when, why to use it is much more useful than having a bunch of gear and only sort of knowing how to use it.


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