# Anyone else work in a "correctional setting"? (Jail, prison, "crossbars hotel", etc)



## mycrofft

*I know there won't be much revolving around ambulances..or will there?
Working with inmates means seeing many of the people you see on the street only with officers nearby and the Supreme Court watching.

Many come in with longstanding problems, many previously undiagnosed; few are totally cooperative and/or are just uneducated; some are smarter than you are, nonetheless.
And if there was ever a place to practice "scene safety", this is it.
So...any others? *


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## mycrofft

*Guess not*

:sad:................


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## ffemt8978

I used to work as a jailer, but don't any longer.  That's why I didn't reply the first time around.


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## mycrofft

*Thanks ffemt8978.*

............


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## BOPDCTEMT

I work for the Federal Bureau of Prisons.


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## mycrofft

*BOPDCTEMT, welcome to the forum.*

The other members have a small idea of what work is like in a correctional setting (well, some may have more than they want to admit...that didn't sound right). Are you a line medical person, a correctional officer, or administrative/staff?


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## BOPDCTEMT

In the Bureau we are all CO's first but my primary mission is medical. I'm also on the Disturbance Control Team as a tactical EMT. I really enjoy it, it's quite different than working the streets for 7 years prior.


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## mycrofft

*Dang, good deal.*

Our County lockup holds five thousand in two facilites, split about evenly. Mine holds nearly two hundred State and enroute inmates for the money. Our medical is seperate from the deputies, although the took us back over a few years ago after some poor service. Our officers are instructed not to go past basic first aid, and I'm trying to teach my folks that dragging a patient around the facility while waiting for the paramedics to come doesn't help the pt whan you can have all the tools on scene and everyone's locked down for safety.
Welcome!


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## BOPDCTEMT

Our officers are pretty good at leaving them alone until I get there if its something serious, otherwise I just get a phone call "hey I'm sending you one he says hes sick". Most of the time its b/s.


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## VentMedic

I worked as a CO in a max security prison to supplement the income while waiting for a FD job to come up. The ambulance service I worked for also had the prison contract. 

The one thing I learned, regardless of your level of medical training, is if your job title is CO, and not medical officer, you have a responsibility to yourself, the other COs and the safety of the inmate population to consider. If you get too involved in the medical care, you may leave your back and the other CO's back wide open. For that reason, medical personnel was separate. We would secure the inmates until the injured inmate could be safely moved or do what we could to get the inmate out of harm's way. In no way were we to be distracted from the safety of the scene by getting too involved in patient care. It is too easy to end up being a dead CO if you can't get the priorities of your job straight.


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## traumateam1

Oh Oh! My dad works in a jail!! lol. Does that count?


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## MMiz

traumateam1 said:


> Oh Oh! My dad works in a jail!! lol. Does that count?


Creating license plates doesn't count


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## traumateam1

Hehe!! haha.

Actually he works in E Wing. The serial murders and rapists... Not such a nice place to work. I suddenly remembered how much I LOVE my job lol.


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## mycrofft

*traumateam1, I got your green mile.*

Actually, _simple_ murderers tend to be fairly easy to get along with.


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## mycrofft

*Over 80% of prison escapes occur in conjunction with Medical.*

Either during an off-campus appointment, or with stuff they stole from medical sources, or with the help of medical personnel.

Our Critical Event Response Team has some latent frustrated impulses to develop an organic EMS/tactical rescue capability, but the admin says "no".


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## traumateam1

*Thanks mycrofft!*

This is true, for EMS workers. It's a lot different when you are the guy keeping them in there for another 20 years, minimum.
But yes that is true, they are pretty dang easy to get a long with.. we talk about dead people.. they talk about dead people. 
Ok but seriously... some of the stories he's told me.. I wouldn't wanna work in a jail full time. Having to break up "jail time fun".. if you know what I mean. Having to stop a guy from somehow lighting himself on fire. Having to find a guy half beaten to death because he's a minority, or because he's "new meat".

But true mycrofft - they are easy to get along with.  lol.


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## mycrofft

*I'm talking simple murderers, not serials, psychos, or others..*

...who kill as part of their business. Sorry, no cure, no parole.
You don't work there twenty years or keep inmates in twenty years, you do it one day at a time. I'm treating the grandsons of patients I took care of when I started.


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## BOPDCTEMT

Its cost prohibitive. $65,000 min for one ambulance, $25,000 to stock it, insurance, maintenance. Versus $0.08 for a bullet to stop the escape. 

And as far as getting along with them.... I'm easy to get along with and all the thuglets know this but they also know that I will not hesitate to take one of them down if necessary. I have responded to Officer assist calls and shown up on the range with a less lethal weapon. You must keep in mind these are inmates and all they have time to do is try to think of ways to manipulate and escape. 

I'll get off my Officer soapbox now and turn back into an EMT.


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## mycrofft

*BOPDCTEMT, I meant a CERT member with EMT trraining and aid kit, maybe SKED.*

I'm busy trying to detune our EMS "system" to a lower manageable level.
I tel folsk these are the same folks you see on the street only without guards, and on the lockup they are pressurized.


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## BOPDCTEMT

I can see the point of freeing up the local system.


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## mycrofft

*It's not uncommon. Maybe misguided but binds the team.*

I'm always on the officers when we respond to something: "Who needs gloves?", "Everybody OK?", "Hey, you got blood on your ankle". I've treated a couple for faily minor stuff, and my stock went up with _them_! On the other hand, If I'm with a pt when the hooraw breaks out, I tell the pt we're safe there, we'll stay put and wait for the all clear. That raises my stock in _their_ eyes, and possibly saved a couple from harm.


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## BOPDCTEMT

I'm pretty lucky, all my guys are paranoid and wear gloves all the time


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## mycrofft

*If you distrust the chow that much, bring your own!*

Oh, yeah. And inmate prepared food....
But enough rhapsing whacksodic (pun intended), ours have a new catch phrase : "Excruciating pain" (translates as "Gimme Norcos"). Right behind "spider bite" (means staph infection or IV drug abscesses), or "Denial of care" (means "You didn't give me what I want when I want"), and the everpopular term of endearment "P$^k- arsed b#&ch". Charming, all they need is a red carpet or green mile. (


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## traumateam1

mycrofft said:
			
		

> You don't work there twenty years or keep inmates in twenty years, you do it one day at a time.



True enough. Mycrofft to be honest I didn't know you worked in a prison until now haha! :blush:


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## mycrofft

*County Jail;big difference.*

The lifers want to be good and get back to their prison where they can get a week's worth of meds at a time, a hot pot, TV, etc.The folks undergoing trial or with sh9rt sentences are no trouble, usually. NOT like prison.


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## BOPDCTEMT

ahh yes the spider bite....and they start taking their cellies old antibiotics that he for something else. Then they get mad when you take it from them and charge them for more.


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## traumateam1

Sorry... jail. ^_^

How is it guys? We have a small jail here, nothing to big.. but what is it like to work in a jail?


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## BOPDCTEMT

I dont mind it, I actually enjoy it. I am a member of the DCT (less lethal tactical team) and i get to do more inside the walls that i would never get to do on the streets. The brotherhood is great between staff we have fun and keep our house in line!


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## mycrofft

*Well, it has never been boring since the Allosaurus busted out...*

I actually left for two years then came back, was asked to come back. What a mistake, except..I'm good at it.

Every quarter, almost every month, we are saddled with new paperwork whose sole aim is to try to make sure we are doing our work. 
More bosses. More rules. Noting gets repealed, just layered on. I do OK because when I break a rule it turns out to be obviously better for the outcome.

I'm the only person working there for more than a few months with any field EMS background, even if it is antediluvian, and the longest-assigned worker with emplyement there since 1987 (with two years off working a desk).

I had a good blog about it, but it was lost to a virus. Someday if I reblog it I'll pass on my link.
But the short answer: dirty, smelly, very crowded, dangerous...and then there are the inmate areas.


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## BOPDCTEMT

mycrofft said:


> But the short answer: dirty, smelly, very crowded, dangerous...and then there are the inmate areas.



how true!!!


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## traumateam1

Mycrofft.. if you do reblog I am looking forward to reading it. 
"But the short answer: dirty, smelly, very crowded, dangerous...and then there are the inmate areas." 
Sounds very interesting!


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## mycrofft

*I was to teach a class to officers tomorrow, but they called me at home to cancel me.*

I can hear it now...
"You got WHO to cover that class!? You numbskull!!".


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## mycrofft

*Well, any new folk with jail stories?*

No, not your Friday night disturbing the peace arrests!

We are being tacitly told not to send as many people out for emergency care as we have been (about $26K per trip for a guy pretending poorly to be having a CVA or MI, can't sort his own fake complaints out). We are overtly being told we need to send out as many cases as we feel need it. The doctors feel the need because they know the higher-ups will BBQ them for a missed call.


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## 033317

I work in the prison system also, I am a CO, I have made the decision not to become part of our EMS response team. It has become a good ole boy network, and the medical direction is not the greatest there also. Supplies and equipment are bought with no idea what they are buying, or no training for what they buy, or no research into what they bought if it is compatible with the local EMS responders. When it comes to inmate transports to the local ED we travel with a minimum of two officers, both of us are armed, the officer that may ride in the Ambulance his firearm is transported with the other officer in a prison vehicle, the inmate is not taken from the Ambulance until the officer has his weapon.


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## mycrofft

*033317 you might find the prison unit dedicated to Folsom Prison inmates interesting.*

Nurses etc can walk around, two officers present and one in an arsenal behind bulletproof mirrored glass, big vehicle and little personnel sallies, and the inmates are shackled to the beds.

I think correctional medicine seems by most accounts to become sort of inbred and aloof from authority because authority wants the inmates given all opportunities and priviliges that unincarcerated people do...without the budget or manpower to approach that.


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## Mountain Res-Q

In response to your PM, mycrofft:

After I left Ambulance in 2006 I was still working winters as an EMT Supervisor at the Local Snow Park.  But once spring started to come around, I had to find something else since the snow was melting fast.  I saw an add for a privately run correctional facility in the next county.  I won't mention the company, becaseu they have 5 facilities located across the west and have a great philosophy by which they operate (it's just teh reality of applying it that sucks).  The facility is classified as (I believe) Level 4 Group Home.  Basicly, the school-type facility is located in teh middle of the foothills, miles away fro anything.  They house 100+ children ages 13-18 who were convicted of peer-preasure related crimes.  The entire program is built around positive peer guidence.  If everyone gets punished when just one kid messes up, the presure from teh other kids who are missing out on privileges step in an pressure (not violently) that one kid to get back in line.  The facility offered vocational training in addition to standard schooling and athletics.  That is the gist of the program, the details of it took 3 days of in service training to get a handle on.  The program was greet, but from a medical perspective, there was a lot of turnover...

Staff worked 4 on / 3 off / 3 on / 4 off/ etc...  We were required to remain on site the entire time we were on, especially medical.  Normal staffing was suppoed to be 2 EMT's or Medical Assistants on duty 16 hours a day (8 hours sleeping on call), but with the high turnover, I spent the entire summer by myself.  We were the primary care providers for all the students and the staff.  If a child was not feeling well one morning, it was on us.  If a kid was playing football and took a bad hit, that was us.  30 minutes of PE was required in the AM and every kid had to be on a team sport at least once a year (Football, baseball, weights, soccar, basketball), so the majority of our stuff was sports related.  We were also responsible for the staff and any of there injuries or illnesses, including one cardiac arrest.

My problem was the kids.  They knew the system and how to work it; i.e.e how to manipulate us.  If a kid came up and said I am felling light headed from teh morning 3 miles run what do you do?  I could blow the kid of becasue he is probably faking, but then you get the shole child endangerment thing.  So I had no choice but to put him on light workout for the next 3-4 days until the Doctor came arouond to examine anyone with a complaint.  By the time the doctor came arouond (twice a week) the list for kids on restricted activity so that they could see him was 15-20 kids deep.  I felt like a nursemaid for this criminals.  And thanks to California's ultra liveral laws these kid were allowed to pull my strings.  I never felt like I was doning anything importants, so after the summer (and a really bad week) I wrote a letter to corporate saying thattheire system had some serious flaws that weren't helping thes kids to get on the right track and I QUIT!  I went back to The Snow Park soon after and focused on SAR when not there.

On a side note, the medical staff took another hit 2 months latter when the Medical Director (EMT w/ Fire and Ambulance training) was foud guilty of videotaping female medics and other female staff in the shower rooms.  Glad I wasn't there for that!

I know that I bumped an old thread, but I didn;t see teh need to create a new one when littel response is needed.  I just posted theis becaseu I was asked to.


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## EMTTim

I work at Georgia State Prison as a CO right now, but I just got my EMT-I and I should be moving from security to medical very shortly.

Back to the nicknames... My favorite is probably Little White B****. Opie seems to be a fan favorite though.


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## mycrofft

*Welcome aboard EMTTim!*

Being a grey paunchy gatekeeper to medical care get a lot of being called "Cap'n" and "Doc". If they don't get what they want THEN my name changes.


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## 033317

one thing that really gets me is, these fine outstanding citizens that we are to maintain care, custody, and control of did not give two sh!ts about their medication on the street but don't let them miss pill call or sick line. :wacko:


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## mycrofft

*Dang 033317... can we call you 03 for short?*

Yeah, in many cases.

We're seeing more inmates who actually are trying to continue their medical care and our porbnlem with them is that we don't stock their brands or our MD's don't agree with theirs as far as medical treatment.
And we are seeing many, many more prescription junkies in the last few years than before, oxycontin and Norcos mostly (catchy names, those!).


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## firespec35

I serve one prision and 3 jail buildings in Wayne county. the prison is lockdown for us. they take all our sharp stuff and phones on the way in and inspect the vehicle, up down inside and underneath. then we are allowed in. The jails we arrive, honk, and normally the sallyport opens. we go in and get the pt from medical and a deputy rides with armed. a CO rides with armed from the prison too. If we have to go on the floor then the staff locks the area down so its us, the COs and the pt


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## mycrofft

*Dang, tough times.*

Yoiu might get a kick out of the civilian hospital that serves Folsom Prison, called the "St Dismas Unit".


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## HCEMS

I am a Correctional Officer for a Sheriff's Department in Illinois.  Know exactly what you mean


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## mycrofft

*Right on HCEMS.*

Hey, JAil Guys/gals, how are budget cuts affecting you?


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