# Switchblade Knife



## TRowe (Aug 4, 2009)

So I know here in Ca the penal code says a switchblade, or auto-knife, can be carried under 2' in length (Inches... I can never remember if its ' or '') and not in a car. But Ive also always heard that LEO, Firefighters etc. are exempt from this. I found this really nice and handy auto-knife that has a built in window punch and seatbelt cutter on it. That would be pretty cool, as it would save me some room on my belt. 

My question is: Does anyone know about the exemption (if any) for public safety personnel on or off duty carrying a switchblade? 

This particular knife is bright orange, with a EMS logo on it and a seatbelt cutter and window punch built in so the intentions of the knife are very obvious. 

Any input? Thanks in advance!


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## MMiz (Aug 4, 2009)

I would be very careful!  I can tell you that usually the law states that firefighters and LEO are exempt.  I've never seen something that says EMS is exempt.  Stupid, I know, but that's what I found when I was researching laws in my state.


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## medic417 (Aug 4, 2009)

And usually if there are exemptions they only apply while on duty not for every day carry.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 4, 2009)

A better question is why would you need a switchblade?  In 10 years in EMS, I never once encountered a situation where the two seconds it took to open the folding pocketknife I carried was intolerable.  I guess, I just don't see the point to carrying such a knife especially if it could result in legal trouble. 



> This particular knife is bright orange, with a EMS logo on it and a seatbelt cutter and window punch built in so the intentions of the knife are very obvious.



You mean other than to make anyone carrying it look like a huge whacker?   A window punch is also something I've never used during my career outside of extrication training.  The force of impact normally handles that job for us.   Putting a knife and seatbelt cutter together is a bit ridiculous (due to the redundancy).  What purpose do you have to carry a knife if you're also carrying a seatbelt cutter (and most likely trauma shears)?  Then again I argue that if you're carrying trauma shears you really don't need a seatbelt cutter either.   

This just sounds very much like one of those items designed to separate new EMS providers from their money in keeping with that old saying.


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## Sasha (Aug 4, 2009)

Why do you need a knife? Trauma shears do the job just fine and they wont get you in trouble for carrying.

And it's " for inches. ' is feet. I'd hope the knife was under 2 feet.


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## medic417 (Aug 4, 2009)

usafmedic45 said:


> This just sounds very much like one of those items designed to separate new EMS providers from their money in keeping with that old saying.



A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But keep that quit I'm working on starting a company targeting all new EMS people.  I'll be rich.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Aug 4, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Why do you need a knife? Trauma shears do the job just fine and they wont get you in trouble for carrying.
> 
> And it's " for inches. ' is feet. I'd hope the knife was under 2 feet.



Oh, Ninja Whacker EMT w/ 2 foot sword!

Oh, and while I agree with little need for a knife on Ambo in an urban areas as other tools can get the job done, i have found it useful in other situations to have my 3 inch buck on me... but I'm a redneck... ^_^

As for the OP, if you are a EMT or EMT student or Medic or Medic Student (whatever you are today) with SAR, why not ask your Deputies attatched to the team as Coordinators?  Why ask Florida (example) emts and medics about California's Penal Code if you volunteer for the Sheriff's Office in CA's capitol?



triemal04 said:


> You volunteer with a SAR team...why the hell would you need a seatbelt cutter and window punch?  Oh wait...I forgot...nevermind.
> 
> Anyone else getting vaguely disturbed as more of these posts pop up?



Yep.....


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## triemal04 (Aug 4, 2009)

You volunteer with a SAR team...why the hell would you need a seatbelt cutter and window punch?  Oh wait...I forgot...nevermind.

Anyone else getting vaguely disturbed as more of these posts pop up?


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## TRowe (Aug 4, 2009)

usafmedic45 said:


> A better question is why would you need a switchblade?  In 10 years in EMS, I never once encountered a situation where the two seconds it took to open the folding pocketknife I carried was intolerable.  I guess, I just don't see the point to carrying such a knife especially if it could result in legal trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do I NEED a switchblade? No. But I have yet to find a fixed blade knife that works for the purposes this one does. Small and compact with the EMS tools I need on it. I dont see a reason NOT to carry one if you can. Whats the difference between a switchblade and fixed blade? In essence, nothing. So why does it matter which I carry? As I said, this one is the only one I have found that I have liked as far as design, size and ability go. 

Secondly, Not quite sure what a whacker is. But if its a insult of sorts, as Im thinking it is, then let me put it this way. It identifies me as someone who should be carrying the knife and shows my intentions to carry it. Plus, it distinguishes who's knife it is if there is ever a mix up. You have never had to use a window punch? Have you spent much time in the field? I can think of at least one time while I was just driving and saw a accident where I had to pull the backseat of my truck up and grab my tire iron to bust out a window to help somebody. A window punch would have saved me a minute almost. Plus, why NOT carry a window punch? Just because YOU have not needed one doesnt mean other people have not or will not need one. 

And a knife and seatbelt cutter are two different things. Sure a knife can work as a seatbelt cutter but not vice versa. A seatbelt cutter, especially this one, has certain safety features so I wont cut myself or the patient. Something most knifes dont have. And because of this safety feature, I cannot use the seatbelt cutter as a knife. It just doesnt work that way. 

Im just trying to outline the reasons I want the knife. Dont think Im a yahoo that is trying to go out of his way to look cool. Im trying to protect myself and agency as far as laws go. Besides, my SAR team requires us to have a knife, seatbelt cutter and window punch (among other things) so why not combine them? Its just a means of utility and convenience. Sorry if I sounded harsh or :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:ish. I always come off that way when not meaning to. But thats for the advice.


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## triemal04 (Aug 4, 2009)

Check that...now I'm very disturbed.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Aug 4, 2009)

copy that triemal. especially if she got out of a pov and smashed a window with a tire iron to "help someone". and if the law gives exemption to LEOs and Firefighters, emt students and vollies are not either of those


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## Sasha (Aug 4, 2009)

> Have you spent much time in the field? I can think of at least one time while I was just driving and saw a accident where I had to pull the backseat of my truck up and grab my tire iron to bust out a window to help somebody.



Did you try opening the door first? Or asking them to unlock it? You probably made things worse by "busting out" their window.



> Sure a knife can work as a seatbelt cutter but not vice versa. A seatbelt cutter, especially this one, has certain safety features so I wont cut myself or the patient. Something most knifes dont have.



If you're afraid of cutting yourself with a knife... why are you carrying one?


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## medic417 (Aug 4, 2009)

Window breaking 101.  Use whatever you have at hand.  The antenna works great.  Point of a knife.  Rock.  Key.  No need for window punch or tire iron unless just laying around.  But maybe an inexperienced person would not know all this.  

Of course I always laugh when someone breaks the window and I then walk up and open the unlocked door.  Always look for the easy way rather than the cool like on TV way.


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## triemal04 (Aug 4, 2009)

VERY disturbed...

This is going downhill in a hurry, but before it get's locked:  have you actually stopped to think about what you've posted on this forum?  Have you stopped to read and think about the questions those posts have caused to be asked of you?  (none of which you have answered; not helping your cause there amigo)  The things you describe doing...your inability to accurately state what your EMS level (if any at all) is...this complete lack of understanding which, if you are a SAR member should be higher...all combine to make you a wee bit suspect.

Edit:  whacker=wannabe, liar, someone who buys all the fancy toys, gadgets and junk to make themselves (they think) look cool, someone who spends all their time dressed up in their uniform, someone who is in this for the lights and excitement and nothing more.


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## Sasha (Aug 4, 2009)

Nevermind. misread.


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## ResTech (Aug 4, 2009)

I am not a fan of EMS providers carrying knives. During an altercation or unexpected turn of events, if your patient didn't have a weapon, they do now. Like other's have said, the many years we have been doing this I have never seen a need to carry a knife, center punch, or seatbelt cutter. I got by with just a pager and my stethoscope. Anything else I need is on my unit. 

I think I know the type of knife you are talking about.. I used to have a red one that had "GlassMaster" on the side of it and it too had a impact point and seatbelt cutter. I never carried it but it was a nice knife. 

Not sure of the law... Im sure it varies by State... Im sure to your employer would have a policy on it. I know in PA, every EMS service is required to have a weapons policy for licensure.


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## Pudge40 (Aug 4, 2009)

TRowe said:


> Do I NEED a switchblade? No. But I have yet to find a fixed blade knife that works for the purposes this one does. Small and compact with the EMS tools I need on it. I dont see a reason NOT to carry one if you can. Whats the difference between a switchblade and fixed blade? In essence, nothing. So why does it matter which I carry? As I said, this one is the only one I have found that I have liked as far as design, size and ability go.
> 
> Secondly, Not quite sure what a whacker is. But if its a insult of sorts, as Im thinking it is, then let me put it this way. It identifies me as someone who should be carrying the knife and shows my intentions to carry it. Plus, it distinguishes who's knife it is if there is ever a mix up. You have never had to use a window punch? Have you spent much time in the field? I can think of at least one time while I was just driving and saw a accident where I had to pull the backseat of my truck up and grab my tire iron to bust out a window to help somebody. A window punch would have saved me a minute almost. Plus, why NOT carry a window punch? Just because YOU have not needed one doesnt mean other people have not or will not need one.
> 
> ...





If it is a SAR team why do you need a window punch and seatbelt cutter? How does that relate to finding people. Also trauma shears as mentioned work to cut a seatbelt and pretty much anything else for that matter. They wont cut the patient either. I am doubting that you are accually in any emergency service based on your posts. Just ask your sheriff department that you do SAR with duh LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL KNOW THE ANSWER. Also your profile says you are a SAR MEDIC but you say your training is medic STUDENT. How can you be paid to be a SAR medic if you are only a student? I vote whacker to the tenth degree here. Also it is extracating people not extracting if you did recues you would know this.


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## HotelCo (Aug 4, 2009)

I don't see the purpose of a switchblade. Get yourself a folding knife and if you must, a multitool. I carry a S&W SWAT knife. I've had it for about 4 years, hasn't let me down yet.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 4, 2009)

> But I have yet to find a fixed blade knife that works for the purposes this one does.



Swing and a miss.....why would you need to carry a fixed-blade either?  



> A seatbelt cutter, especially this one, has certain safety features so I wont cut myself or the patient



Strike two.....so do a pair of trauma shears.  



> Secondly, Not quite sure what a whacker is.



Rescue Randy"?  Overeager pain in the butt (usually a newbie) that no one wants to work with because they are so overzealous?   "Whacker" just seems to be the term everyone on this forum uses for some reason....never heard it used elsewhere.  Around here, they are normally called either "Rescue Randy" or "that one d*****bag".  



> Whats the difference between a switchblade and fixed blade? In essence, nothing.



Are you talking just a folding pocketknife or the actual, push a button and it swings the blade out form of a knife?  



> Besides, my SAR team requires us to have a knife, seatbelt cutter and window punch (among other things) so why not combine them? Its just a means of utility and convenience.



Ah, I see....it's for a SAR team.  We were required to have a seatbelt cutter and window punch in our personal equipment as well, but no one carried them on missions.   That said, I've yet to see one of these combi-tools geared towards EMTs that works as well as it's advertised.  



> Have you spent much time in the field?



Roughly (a little over) eleven years in EMS (paid and volunteer both, usually working one of each), several of them as a supervisor and/or volunteer fire officer as well as a SAR and water rescue/dive team member. 



> Dont think Im a yahoo that is trying to go out of his way to look cool.



I never assumed that based on the desire to carry a knife.  It was just the one you described that made me concerned you were just another overeager newbie like we get here so frequently.  



> A window punch would have saved me a minute almost.



Assuming you kept it on your belt at all times.  That's pretty much the definition of a Rescue Randy in most people's book.  



> Just because YOU have not needed one doesnt mean other people have not or will not need one.



Neither has anyone I've worked with.  I seem to recall a thread on here about pointless, redundant or useless equipment and that was one of the things listed by several people.  Actually, the only person I've ever known who used one outside of training was a car thief.  



> Something most knifes dont have.



May I suggest you look into some of the knifes designed for divers?  A lot of them (although almost all are fixed blades) are very tough since they are basically designed as much as a digging tool as a knife, sharp enough to cut but designed not to easily wound someone inadvertently.  Also many of them have a little hooked area built into to cut line that will work well to cut seatbelts should you be so inclined.  A lot of the SAR team members I dealt with carried them.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 4, 2009)

> If it is a SAR team why do you need a window punch and seatbelt cutter? How does that relate to finding people.


Some SAR teams also do extrications like he said.  The county south of where I used to work had all their extrications done by the SAR squad.  The VFDs did not carry extrication tools for the most part (something that has since changed thank God). 



> Did you try opening the door first? Or asking them to unlock it? You probably made things worse by "busting out" their window.


I was wondering the same thing....I get tired of overzealous bystanders and newbies doing a lot of damage to gain "access".  



> Where I come from, EMS guys help eachother out, not sit there and try and make the new guy seem like a jerk by saying how disturbed he is or making me look like some sort of axe murderer.



Where I come from and where I've worked (four different states, counting part time and per diem work, perhaps eight to ten different services) we tend to call people on bad attitudes and ego issues.  Telling the new guy to chill out a bit is helping him since if he doesn't he will wind up off the department or team real quick.  



> Thirdly, as stated before I will be becoming a EMT on a rig soon and need certain tools.



What part of "You don't need this stuff on your belt as an EMT" did you not gather?  Should we speak slower or do I need to find someone who speaks fluent moron? 



> Goodbye TRowe...



+1


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## FFMckenzie (Aug 4, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Window breaking 101.  Use whatever you have at hand.  The antenna works great.  Point of a knife.  Rock.  Key.  No need for window punch or tire iron unless just laying around.  But maybe an inexperienced person would not know all this.
> 
> Of course I always laugh when someone breaks the window and I then walk up and open the unlocked door.  Always look for the easy way rather than the cool like on TV way.



Try before you pry. 

I carried a spring assisted benchmade knife in my wildland webgear just for the time I needed to use a knife and did not have the time to take one of my gloves off to open it.

 To be honest there was never an incident when I NEEDED it  yes it was always useful when I wanted to use it but I cant think of a time where it would have changed the outcome of the situation.

Also it never left my webgear when I left work my webgear stayed in my locker. I think most of its action was opening my MREs for a fireline dinner.  

The rescue rats always think they NEED so many funny things. Thats why you always see them walkin around with the "bat belt"

and as far as EMS goes Im with everyone else trauma shears are the way to go. Your going to have to carry them anyway if you actually plan on doing your assessments correctly. Honestly the combi tools are kinda a joke. A pair of shears and one of the spring loaded metal punches is all thats needed and  are allot cheaper than the rescue rat tool.


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## MMiz (Aug 4, 2009)

I've had enough of this belittling and insulting other members.  Don't post if you have nothing nice or productive to contribute to the community.

Thread locked.


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