# Comparison and discussion of Body armor



## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

*DISCLAIMER I DO NOT THINK I'M IN DANGER AND NEED A VEST AND I WON'T BE WEARING ONE TO WORK.

I'm not looking for the "Pfft you don't need body armor" comments. Don't post them.*

This is merely looking at opportunities.  I only own a flack jacket and no real ballistic protection. I am into guns and stuff and almost bought my own body armor anyway.

That being said I still might want high vis or the navy/black carrier.

But I would like to hear about any pros and cons of buying it (such as spending a few hundred and not using it, I'm aware). As far as body armor goes is this a good company and a good deal if one was looking to buy it anyway?
----

So we can now wear body armor.  In fact we are offered a one time discount from Safe Light Defense.

iiia and iiia+. 2 different kinds of vests.

I like pockets to I want the one of the bottom two.  But I'm not sure if I want the high vis in case I'm not trying to be seen later.  Don't ask me what I'd be doing sneaking around in body armor, just a habit to think of tactically advantageous situations.  High vis would be nice if I say, don't want to be hit by a car and for some weird reason am kitted up.  Don't ask me why I would be.

If I do end up going to another company (that might require body armor or be in worse Situations) or go LE, some places don't supply body armor. Might be good to already have a vest that fits

Thoughts on the company and vests offered?

They have a guarantee of the vests fitting and if you're shot, they'll replace it. How good are materials. Is the company well known?

Is the weight going to be much different between iiia and iiia+?

The first response with iiia+ was $569.00 and is $376.75. The iiia is 301.75.

All vests can be broken down into 4 payments.

The concealable one was $499.00 and is $324.25. At iiia it's 249.25.

Helpful or thoughtful responses?



https://imgur.com/a/1LEgIaD


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## E tank (Jun 20, 2020)

Whatever you get, make sure you can remove the ballistic panels from the carrier so you can wash it...seems like a no brainer, but...not so much.


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## GMCmedic (Jun 20, 2020)

If youre going somewherethat requires body armor, they need to be providing it. That said, concealable is my personal preference for many reasons.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

E tank said:


> Whatever you get, make sure you can remove the ballistic panels from the carrier so you can wash it...seems like a no brainer, but...not so much.



Reasons the washing machine broke for 500, Alex


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> If youre going somewherethat requires body armor, they need to be providing it. That said, concealable is my personal preference for many reasons.


Because scenes stay safe once EMS arrives on scene?  There are a plethora of situations where body armor could be needed that arise after your arrival, and it is fairly cheap insurance/peace of mind. 

That being said, I agree with you about concealed being my preferred choice.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 20, 2020)

While I do see the appeal of concealed I don’t think that would be the way I would go. Having it under your uniform would mean you will need a different size of uniform. So if you go a day or a certain time without wearing it, you will have to large of a uniform/shirt. 

Concealed wear is also usually meant for it to be worn for an entire shift. Do you really need a vest on while doing a dialysis run or another very simple hospital to hospital transport?

An outer vest is much more simple to put on. Get a call with violence or responding to a bad neighborhood? Toss it on and you are good to go. Doing a IFT of 5 year old Timmy who needs an appendectomy? Leave that hot and uncomfortable thing off.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> While I do see the appeal of concealed I don’t think that would be the way I would go. Having it under your uniform would mean you will need a different size of uniform. So if you go a day or a certain time without wearing it, you will have to large of a uniform/shirt.
> 
> Concealed wear is also usually meant for it to be worn for an entire shift. Do you really need a vest on while doing a dialysis run or another very simple hospital to hospital transport?
> 
> An outer vest is much more simple to put on. Get a call with violence or responding to a bad neighborhood? Toss it on and you are good to go. Doing a IFT of 5 year old Timmy who needs an appendectomy? Leave that hot and uncomfortable thing off.



Ah yeah.  I would have to buy extra shirts to fit that.  I hadn't thought about that. 

I was leaning towards the external iiia+ tbh.

I think I can maybe buy the external fabric thing to make it not high vis for like 50-60$


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 20, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Ah yeah.  I would have to buy extra shirts to fit that.  I hadn't thought about that.
> 
> I was leaning towards the external iiia+ tbh.
> 
> I think I can maybe buy the external fabric thing to make it not high vis for like 50-60$


I would check with your local management before making any changes to the vest as the blanket policy the company put out essentially said that external vests must be high vis and must have AMR/EMS in text.


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## GMCmedic (Jun 20, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> I would check with your local management before making any changes to the vest as the blanket policy the company put out essentially said that external vests must be high vis and must have AMR/EMS in text.


Going back to concealed, there was a time 8 years or so ago, that AMR (at least local) was concealable only, that has since changed. Which is one reason why I vote concealable. Yeah it sucks to wear it on a transfer,but if you cant afford both, itll suck when you go to a company with that policy. A concealable vest can always be worn outside the clothes, the inverse is not always true. 

An external vest is way more convenient, and I actually own one, (thought mine is total overkill), if I could do it again, I would go with concealable for professionalism and to do everything I can to not look like a cop.


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## GMCmedic (Jun 20, 2020)

ffemt8978 said:


> Because scenes stay safe once EMS arrives on scene? There are a plethora of situations where body armor could be needed that arise after your arrival, and it is fairly cheap insurance/peace of mind.
> 
> That being said, I agree with you about concealed being my preferred choice.


I could have worded that better. What I mean is, if they require body armor as part of a uniform then they are responsible for providing it.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> I could have worded that better. What I mean is, if they require body armor as part of a uniform then they are responsible for providing it.


I agree. If it’s required then it should be provided. I will admit that I am actually a fan of how AMR/GMR is doing it. They partnered with a vest company to offer a decent discount plus you can use any uniform allowance to help pay for it. So if I want to get a vest I am only going to have to use $100 of my own cash and the vest is completely mine to keep should I separate from the company.


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## GMCmedic (Jun 20, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> I agree. If it’s required then it should be provided. I will admit that I am actually a fan of how AMR/GMR is doing it. They partnered with a vest company to offer a decent discount plus you can use any uniform allowance to help pay for it. So if I want to get a vest I am only going to have to use $100 of my own cash and the vest is completely mine to keep should I separate from the company.


That is all new, Ive been removed from there since 2014 though. For $100 out of pocket buy whatever you want. Ive spent more on dumber things.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> That is all new, Ive been removed from there since 2014 though. For $100 out of pocket buy whatever you want. Ive spent more on dumber things.


It’s all division specific.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> Going back to concealed, there was a time 8 years or so ago, that AMR (at least local) was concealable only, that has since changed. Which is one reason why I vote concealable. Yeah it sucks to wear it on a transfer,but if you cant afford both, itll suck when you go to a company with that policy. A concealable vest can always be worn outside the clothes, the inverse is not always true.
> 
> An external vest is way more convenient, and I actually own one, (thought mine is total overkill), if I could do it again, I would go with concealable for professionalism and to do everything I can to not look like a cop.



Yeah and if you're getting shot at, do you think they maybe don't care?

Not being sarcastic but if your scene becomes unsafe and you're an ambulance crew. I don't think they're concerned about not shooting the "helpers".


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> I would check with your local management before making any changes to the vest as the blanket policy the company put out essentially said that external vests must be high vis and must have AMR/EMS in text.



I meant for personal use. Like off the job and I don't want to look like a neon lemon 

But I did not see the part where it says that.  I'll re-read.


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## GMCmedic (Jun 20, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Yeah and if you're getting shot at, do you think they maybe don't care?
> 
> Not being sarcastic but if your scene becomes unsafe and you're an ambulance crew. I don't think they're concerned about not shooting the "helpers".


If were going to use the .0000000001% event as a scapegoat, you should also drive around with a nuclear bomb shelter.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I meant for personal use. Like off the job and I don't want to look like a neon lemon
> ...


This is why concealable has way more advantages than external.  It can be worn and used in a variety of situations where an external vest would attract attention.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 20, 2020)

Where all are you guys going off duty that you need to wear a vest for??


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Where all are you guys going off duty that you need to wear a vest for??


Who said anything about need?

But to answer your question, in the past week I've been in Atlanta, Nashville, Detroit, Chicago and St Louis.


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## Carlos Danger (Jun 20, 2020)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Where all are you guys going off duty that you need to wear a vest for??


Not today, alphabet boi.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

Carlos Danger said:


> Not today, alphabet boi.



I lost all my body armor in a terrible boating accident.


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## Carlos Danger (Jun 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> If were going to use the .0000000001% event as a scapegoat, you should also drive around with a nuclear bomb shelter.


Getting shot at is more than a little more likely than having a nuclear weapon dropped on your head. And carrying a vest is more than a little more practical.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 20, 2020)

Carlos Danger said:


> Not today, alphabet boi.


Please ignore the black van down the street from your house.


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## GMCmedic (Jun 20, 2020)

Carlos Danger said:


> Getting shot at is more than a little more likely than having a nuclear weapon dropped on your head. And carrying a vest is more than a little more practical.


Getting stabbed is just as likely as being shot, but most ballistic vest dont offer protection against blades. 

The point is I dont think shunning professionalism is a valid excuse when the same level of protection is offered in both outerwear and concealable.


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## Carlos Danger (Jun 20, 2020)

I don’t own any kind of body armor, and haven't worn any since my military days.

However, I do carry a pistol on me most of the time and have a rifle in my truck all the time. Lots of us do that even though we know chances are overwhelming that we’ll never use them.

With that in mind, I’ve often wondered why I shouldn’t keep a vest and compact bugout kit (or more technically, a “get home kit”) under the seat along with my truck gun?


GMCmedic said:


> Getting stabbed is just as likely as being shot, but most ballistic vest dont offer protection against blades.


That is like saying there’s no use in getting your Hep B vaccine because it doesn’t protect you from Hep C or HIV.



GMCmedic said:


> The point is I dont think shunning professionalism is a valid excuse when the same level of protection is offered in both outerwear and concealable.


Well for one thing the OP said this was for personal use, not for use at work.

For another, I wouldn’t agree that there’s anything unprofessional about pulling on a vest when the situation warrants. I might even argue that it’s unprofessional not to, whether your employer provides it or not.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

Carlos Danger said:


> For another, I wouldn’t agree that there’s anything unprofessional about pulling on a vest when the situation warrants. I might even argue that it’s unprofessional not to, whether your employer provides it or not.



In the current situation I would not.  But if I went to a 911 company,  I'd see.  

Not needing it for BLS IFT doesn't mean I won't ever wish I didn't have good body armor. 

Just the other day a person was shot at my complex. I heard the shots and.  .... like .... an idiot.... I went outside to see.  It was like 0400 and I'm in need with my eyes closed and I hear it. One shot. Then like 5 more.  No news on if they died. 

I went to see, because honestly, the sound of trouble makes me wonder if someone needs help.  I didn't search under ever rock, just poked my head around and didn't see anything. 

On the job I put that aside for my patient and partner. There's no reason to take that risk while in uniform and there's more than me at risk.  I wouldn't subject anyone else to the risk I might to myself off duty.  

Would it have been bad to wear body armor? Would it make me look more like a target? Might I have been next because I went looking for a second? 

I don't know. But if I did get shot in the vest, better than not.  Worse than not being shot at all. 

Riots in the city.  Businesses destroyed.  Large mobs. The official march was pretty peaceful but other things weren't and they got smashed up.  People got hurt.

Even before these incidents, I have always felt like it should be easily accessible and available.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I don't know. But if I did get shot in the vest, better than not.  Worse than not being shot at all.


Ummm
...
What?????

You might want to rethink that.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

ffemt8978 said:


> Ummm
> ...
> What?????
> 
> You might want to rethink that.



Not being shot>being shot but in the vest>being shot not in the vest.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> Not being shot>being shot but in the vest>being shot not in the vest.


Goes without saying, but that's not what you said. Lol


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

ffemt8978 said:


> Goes without saying, but that's not what you said. Lol



I'm tired .-.


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

Today's lesson....when you know you're tired is when you need to force yourself to think clearly and double check what you do.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

I don't know. But if I did get shot in the vest, better than not (having the bullet caught in the vest). Worse than not being shot at all.

That's what I was thinking 😅


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 20, 2020)

DragonClaw said:


> I don't know. But if I did get shot in the vest, better than not (having the bullet caught in the vest). Best is not being shot at all.
> 
> That's what I was thinking 😅


FTFY


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

ffemt8978 said:


> FTFY



🔔🔔🔔


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## DragonClaw (Jun 20, 2020)

GMCmedic said:


> Getting stabbed is just as likely as being shot, but most ballistic vest dont offer protection against blades.



The iiia+ is stab protection too. If I got a vest it would be with stab protection.  A local company issues stab, not ballistic vests.


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## Jim37F (Jun 21, 2020)

Safe Life Defense makes a soft/flexible/concealable body armor panel that's supposedly rated to Level IV (capable of stopping up to 7.62x39mm) while being "Handgun, Shotgun, Strike, Slash, Stab & Taser Resistant". All at 5.4lbs per panel. 

... and $1,549.00 per panel.

If I had the extra cash laying around I'd love to buy one and shoot it up to test those claims lol









						Flexible Rifle Armor Panels (FRAS) - Safe Life Defense
					

Flexible Rifle Armor System (FRAS) give you the full protection of a rifle plate, but with the added benefit of flexibility and less weight.




					safelifedefense.com


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## DragonClaw (Jun 21, 2020)

ffemt8978 said:


> Who said anything about need?



He seeks to dismantle capitalism, does he?


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## VFlutter (Jun 21, 2020)

The first question you need to address is what level of protection you need. Are the shootings in your area mostly with handgun caliber or are rifles in the mix? People around here love Draco AK pistols which is a difficult round to stop without plate armor. Green tip 5.56 is readily available in bulk and may be an issue in certain areas.

Realistically IIIA soft armor, preferably concealable, is a good investment for reasonable protection.

SafeLife FRAS looks interesting but I can't find enough about it

Aside from that you are looking at either expensive special threat III+ or bulky heavy IV plates and external carriers. Hesco special threat plates are thin enough to conceal under clothing with certain slick carriers.


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## DragonClaw (Jun 21, 2020)

VFlutter said:


> The first question you need to address is what level of protection you need. Are the shootings in your area mostly with handgun caliber or are rifles in the mix? People around here love Draco AK pistols which is a difficult round to stop without plate armor. Green tip 5.56 is readily available in bulk and may be an issue in certain areas.
> 
> Realistically IIIA soft armor, preferably concealable, is a good investment for reasonable protection.
> 
> ...



I mean, it's Texas.  A lot of us have a lot of guns and ammo. Red and green tip both.  Tokarev has gone though body armor before, I've heard.


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## Jim37F (Jun 21, 2020)

Yeah the only thing I've seen about those FRAS is their own marketing. I'd be more than happy to buy one and shoot it up to let everyone know if its good or not, anyone got a spare 15 hundo lying about? 😅

I've also seen (from a variety) of stab plates designed, well, to stop knives, like a thiner rigid plate that can be worn in conjunction with soft armor. 

Once again now you're balancing extra weight (though i don't think stab plates by themselves are particularly heavy/bulky, but still...) added stiffness to an otherwise soft vest, which could potentially compromise the concealed aspect, etc


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## DragonClaw (Jun 21, 2020)

Jim37F said:


> Yeah the only thing I've seen about those FRAS is their own marketing. I'd be more than happy to buy one and shoot it up to let everyone know if its good or not, anyone got a spare 15 hundo lying about? 😅
> 
> I've also seen (from a variety) of stab plates designed, well, to stop knives, like a thiner rigid plate that can be worn in conjunction with soft armor.
> 
> Once again now you're balancing extra weight (though i don't think stab plates by themselves are particularly heavy/bulky, but still...) added stiffness to an otherwise soft vest, which could potentially compromise the concealed aspect, etc



I think I'm more likely to get stabbed than shot but this armor is a good deal (I think) and I can buy a cheaper under uniform stab vest later.  This though, discount won't be.


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