# Pointless Radio Terms



## AJ Hidell (Mar 5, 2009)

There is no aspect of EMS where the pointless "monkey see - monkey do" culture exists than in radio communications.  There are so many things that people say on the radio for no other reason than that's what they heard someone else say, without ever giving a single intelligent thought to why they should or should not say it.  Here's my list of the top annoying things that people say on the radio:

*Be advised* - (ex. "_Be advised_ we're transporting.") Could there possibly be a more pointless term?

*Gonna be* - (ex. "Be advised we're _gonna be_ transporting to...") Don't tell me what you're "gonna be" doing.  Tell me what you _are_ doing.

*At this time* - (ex. "Be advised we're gonna be transporting _at this time_")  Everything you say should be at this time.  It is things that are in the past or future that should be qualified.

*Times 1* - ("Be advised we're gonna be transporting _times 1_ at this time...")  No kidding, Captain Obvious!  We dispatched you to a chest pain.  We weren't exactly expecting that you'd be transporting multiple patients.  No clarification needed!

*Subject* - (ex. "Medic 3 respond to a _subject_ having chest pain.")  Subject is a term for a person of interest who does not fit into any other category.  A patient is not a subject.  A victim is not a subject.  A caller is not a subject.  An assailant is not a subject.

*Complainant* - (ex. "Medic 3, be advised your _complainant_ fell and hit his head.")  Complainant is a legal term in law enforcement, not a medical patient or a caller for that patient.  They're not complaining.  They are requesting our services.

Anyone have any others?  Feel free to add your own.


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## BorderDog (Mar 5, 2009)

UGH!!!

The use of the word "copy" should be smitten into the deepest caves and covered in snot from a thousand rotting eels.

It has has too many annotations and connotations to mean everything from:

Do you understand?:unsure:
I understand,:huh:
Repeat this,
Forward this.

Copy? Copy. Roger? Roger. Over? Out.


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## akflightmedic (Mar 5, 2009)

Awesome AJ!

Yes you hit the big ones, I will give this some more thought and get back to ya.

One of my annoyances is more of a pronunciation thing than wrong term, but when people say "on root" instead of en route...


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## Silverstone (Mar 5, 2009)

Could be like my medics.

"CMED, adam 45 is en route routine to Mercy Hospital, one patient, no riders, miles are 0.0."

All I need to hear is:

"45 routine Mercy"

It annoys me to know end when people talk and talk and talk aimlessly.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 5, 2009)

Silverstone said:


> It annoys me to know end when people talk and talk and talk aimlessly.


There are definitely some people who are impressed by the sound of their own voices.  I worked at one agency that had a full-duplex radio system (do they still teach what that is in EMT school?).  That means, when you were talking on the radio, you could actually hear yourself talking on the radio speaker at the same time, just like a land line telephone.  A lot of people obviously got off on hearing themselves and would add way more to their transmissions than was needed, often changing up their voices as if they were a disk jockey or something, lol.  It was hella annoying.

The "on route" thing is funny!  I hadn't thought of that.  I have listened to people argue back and forth about how "enroute" should be pronounced though, lol.


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## firecoins (Mar 5, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> *Times 1* - ("Be advised we're gonna be transporting _times 1_ at this time...")  No kidding, Captain Obvious!  We dispatched you to a chest pain.  We weren't exactly expecting that you'd be transporting multiple patients.  No clarification needed!


We use this term to inform dispatch we have someone in addition to the patient.  10-4 over


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## benkfd (Mar 5, 2009)

We have a dispatcher that always wants us to "Make" things....."Make such and such an address for difficulty breathing".......... WE CAN'T MAKE ANYTHING RIGHT NOW WE'RE BUSY!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL :huh:


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## Sasha (Mar 5, 2009)

BorderDog said:


> UGH!!!
> 
> The use of the word "copy" should be smitten into the deepest caves and covered in snot from a thousand rotting eels.
> 
> ...



I prefer "Copy" to "10-4" when there is no other use of ten codes.

Copy means I got it. I understand. "Do you copy?" means "Do you understand?" Repeat is "Please repeat"

One thing that drove me up the wall when I worked was when I needed to go on scene or arrival or transporting and someone was giving a long drawn out "radio report" going through the sample.. the kind the nurse should be getting AT the hospital, not en route!


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## Sasha (Mar 5, 2009)

> Be advised - (ex. "Be advised we're transporting.") Could there possibly be a more pointless term?



The only time I've ever used "Be advised" is when everyone on the road got a pager message "You must advise dispatch of ALL RECIEVED PAGES!"

So every page anyone got was:

"Unit 104 to dispatch, be advised we recieved page." "Unit 128 to dispatch be advised we copy times"


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## JPINFV (Mar 5, 2009)

"Over and out" because people who use this obviously have no clue what "over" and "out" means.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Mar 5, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> Awesome AJ!
> 
> Yes you hit the big ones, I will give this some more thought and get back to ya.
> 
> One of my annoyances is more of a pronunciation thing than wrong term, but when people say "on root" instead of en route...



I just found out that, in my state at least, when you are going to an emergency you are not "en-route", you are "responding". Apparently, you can only be "en-route" on non call-out stuff. (En-route back to the barn, etc....)


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## mycrofft (Mar 5, 2009)

*"On root" is phonetically correct..."en route" is French.*

Kinda like "Mai'dez" meaning "Help me" and we pronounce it "Mayday".

"Be advised" tells the receiver "get your pencil". But not in French. Usually is at the beginning of an exchange or used as accentuation during one. 

Yeah we get our radio habits stuck good. I still accidentally pop out an occasional "10-4".


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## medic417 (Mar 6, 2009)

I hate the "Ten" codes.  In fact they were recommended done away with one of the large grants that was to help communications be more uniform.


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## reaper (Mar 6, 2009)

NIMS did away with the 10 codes. Every service should be NIMS compliant by now, so every one should be using plain text!

Copy that?
Over and out!


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## Buzz (Mar 6, 2009)

The only time I've ever used Be Advised was to alert dispatch to a traffic accident with lane closures thus causing a major route of travel to take longer than usual so that they could either alert other units or give appropriate ETAs to facilities along that route. 

We still use ten codes... Not entirely sure why. Our dispatchers respond the same if I say En route to... or if I say 10-5 to.... Keeping the "Send LE assistance immediately with no questions asked" code is kind of nice though.  I'd rather someone not know what I was saying into the radio if I was stuck in a hostile scene.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 6, 2009)

Buzz said:


> Keeping the "Send LE assistance immediately with no questions asked" code is kind of nice though.  I'd rather someone not know what I was saying into the radio if I was stuck in a hostile scene.


A policy I instituted at the last agency I managed was to prohibit the use of any 10-codes, except in an emergency.  The use of any 10-code, no matter what it was, was a distress call.  That way, if dispatch was checking on you, and you said everything was 10-4, you were alerting them of distress without alerting anyone around you to that distress call.  Knowing that they were going to get a massive police response within seconds served as a very good deterrent to whackers falling back into their 10-code habits!


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## karaya (Mar 6, 2009)

reaper said:


> ...so every one should be using plain text!


 
Wanna bet?


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## spisco85 (Mar 6, 2009)

I might be biased but I think the military should instruct everyone how to talk on a radio. None of this "Me to you," BS when we should be using it like a phone "Hey you, its me," lets the person know who you are trying to get a hold of and who you are.

Also numbers. Numbers get me amped up when people say "eighty" instead of "eight-zero"

Oooo!! And letters. its "Lima Eight-zero" not "L eighty"

Cuts down on all the "repeat your last" requests. I miss the Military radio...


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 6, 2009)

Back in the 80s, after Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers, there was an influx of them into EMS.  It resulted in a significant improvement in radio procedures in my area as people began to emulate their style, which was along the military style you mention.  The only drawback was that a lot of those guys were seriously high-strung type-A's who were hard to get along with for 12 hours a day.  They were very intelligent and detail oriented though, and otherwise made great medics.


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## abckidsmom (Mar 6, 2009)

mycrofft said:


> Kinda like "Mai'dez" meaning "Help me" and we pronounce it "Mayday".
> 
> "Be advised" tells the receiver "get your pencil". But not in French. Usually is at the beginning of an exchange or used as accentuation during one.
> 
> Yeah we get our radio habits stuck good. I still accidentally pop out an occasional "10-4".



Just a note:  the french is m'aider.  It literally means "help me".  Just wanted to put a plug in for spelling, even in another language.


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## MSDeltaFlt (Mar 6, 2009)

Yeah, those who try to sound important on the radio...*don't*.


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## PapaBear434 (Mar 6, 2009)

reaper said:


> NIMS did away with the 10 codes. Every service should be NIMS compliant by now, so every one should be using plain text!
> 
> Copy that?
> Over and out!



I'll agree, but I think certain things have entered our pop-culture lexicon to the point where we know what it means.  10-4, copy that, over and out... People know what these mean.


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## JPINFV (Mar 6, 2009)

PapaBear434 said:


> over and out... People know what these mean.


Actually, they just think they know what "over and out" means. 

Over: "I'm done transmitting and expect a response."
Out: "I'm done transmitting and don't expect a response."


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## fma08 (Mar 6, 2009)

Roger Rodger, what's your vector Victor? Watch your clearance Clarence!


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## jochi1543 (Mar 6, 2009)

"This is 9-1-1 dispatch." Well, who else would that be on that channel?


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## BossyCow (Mar 6, 2009)

I have to nominate "Um" "Er" and "Well" as candidates for permanent removal from the airways. Think before you push the button.


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## Buzz (Mar 6, 2009)

We've recently started having to give our actual odometer mileages (rather than just the total trip mileages) when we call back to the station on a call... My partner insists on using the word "niner" for nine. That always seemed like a pointless pronunciation to me as there's nothing really that sounds like "nine" number-wise.

Though funny story... One of our bosses was standing in the dispatch office and overheard my partner say something.niner. He was like "....Did he just say niner?" The dispatcher looked at him and was like "He's talking on a walkie talkie." ^_^


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## benkfd (Mar 6, 2009)

Buzz said:


> We've recently started having to give our actual odometer mileages (rather than just the total trip mileages) when we call back to the station on a call... My partner insists on using the word "niner" for nine. That always seemed like a pointless pronunciation to me as there's nothing really that sounds like "nine" number-wise.
> 
> Though funny story... One of our bosses was standing in the dispatch office and overheard my partner say something.niner. He was like "....Did he just say niner?" The dispatcher looked at him and was like "He's talking on a walkie talkie." ^_^



That's funny Buzz!!!


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## silver (Mar 6, 2009)

Buzz said:


> We've recently started having to give our actual odometer mileages (rather than just the total trip mileages) when we call back to the station on a call... My partner insists on using the word "niner" for nine. That always seemed like a pointless pronunciation to me as there's nothing really that sounds like "nine" number-wise.
> 
> Though funny story... One of our bosses was standing in the dispatch office and overheard my partner say something.niner. He was like "....Did he just say niner?" The dispatcher looked at him and was like "He's talking on a walkie talkie." ^_^



so you mean i shouldn't respond like this?
dispatch: dispatch to medic 1 respond to 99 center street for an unknown medic, priority 1
me: 10-4 responding to niner niner charlie echo november tango echo romeo street, over 

-_-


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## reaper (Mar 6, 2009)

fma08 said:


> Roger Rodger, what's your vector Victor? Watch your clearance Clarence!



I was waiting for the Airplane reference!!


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## benkfd (Mar 6, 2009)

reaper said:


> I was waiting for the Airplane reference!!



Hadn't thought of that one yet! LOL


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## PapaBear434 (Mar 6, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Actually, they just think they know what "over and out" means.
> 
> Over: "I'm done transmitting and expect a response."
> Out: "I'm done transmitting and don't expect a response."



True enough.  Let's go with "common usage."  I usually say stuff like "Copy that" just talking to people, and did so long before I got into EMS or the police department.  

Yes, I'm that big of a dork.


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## Aidey (Mar 6, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> *Times 1* - ("Be advised we're gonna be transporting _times 1_ at this time...")  No kidding, Captain Obvious!  We dispatched you to a chest pain.  We weren't exactly expecting that you'd be transporting multiple patients.  No clarification needed!



A couple of shifts ago one of the other crews responded to a man with chest pain. They got on scene, were evaluating the patient, when the wife started having chest pain too. Turns out they were both having MIs, go figure.  

So yeah, I get your point that by default, we are usually transporting 1 patient, but not always. Plus if you don't document it, it didn't happen. 

My personal pet peeve are people who don't know the difference between copy and affirmative.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 6, 2009)

Buzz said:


> We've recently started having to give our actual odometer mileages (rather than just the total trip mileages) when we call back to the station on a call... My partner insists on using the word "niner" for nine. That always seemed like a pointless pronunciation to me as there's nothing really that sounds like "nine" number-wise.
> 
> Though funny story... One of our bosses was standing in the dispatch office and overheard my partner say something.niner. He was like "....Did he just say niner?" The dispatcher looked at him and was like "He's talking on a walkie talkie." ^_^



Actually, five and nine sound very similar on the radio, which is why they started the "niner" to differentiate between the two.


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## medic417 (Mar 6, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> Actually, five and nine sound very similar on the radio, which is why they started the "niner" to differentiate between the two.



10-4 unit fiver niner


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## spisco85 (Mar 6, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> Actually, five and nine sound very similar on the radio, which is why they started the "niner" to differentiate between the two.



Actually the use of niner came from international travel because in German nein (sp?) means no.


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## JonTullos (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of 10 codes except in emergencies.  As someone else pointed out, if I need assistance I'd like to let dispatch know without alerting whomever is there that the cops will be there soon.  When I dispatched I'd always say "affirmative," "copy" and things like that.  The fire departments were a bit upset with me at first but eventually they were even doing it when I was on duty.


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## Hal9000 (Mar 6, 2009)

I've always been a fan of Roger Wilco.    From my aviation days...  (Which is not pointless.)


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## Chimpie (Mar 7, 2009)

I'm all for 10-codes.  Keeps the conversations shorter.

When I was first working dispatch we were taught to use 10-codes when possible, but if you had to use plain english then use it.  Don't delay a transmission just to figure out how to put it all in 10 codes.

Finally, IMO, there is no need to stop using 10-codes in every day work just because of NIMS.  If there is an emergency where you're involving outside agencies just start talking in plain english.


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## JPINFV (Mar 7, 2009)

Chimpie said:


> Finally, IMO, there is no need to stop using 10-codes in every day work just because of NIMS.  If there is an emergency where you're involving outside agencies just start talking in plain english.



Ah, if only it was as simple as throwing a switch. I left my first company [moved for school] about a year after we switched from 10-codes to plain English and there was still the occasional use of 10 codes. It was rare and everyone knew what the person transmitting meant, but it was happening. 

Now the problem with 10 codes is that they become second nature. It would be like trying to get someone to stop using pronouns. Sure, pronouns could be eliminated, but it would take a while and isn't something that's going to change overnight. Heck, I remember having conversations about calls where I would just use the 10 code to make it shorter ("So we're 97 and...). It isn't something that is just going to be shut off because of a unique situation.


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## daedalus (Mar 7, 2009)

Chimpie said:


> I'm all for 10-codes.  Keeps the conversations shorter.
> 
> When I was first working dispatch we were taught to use 10-codes when possible, but if you had to use plain english then use it.  Don't delay a transmission just to figure out how to put it all in 10 codes.
> 
> Finally, IMO, there is no need to stop using 10-codes in every day work just because of NIMS.  If there is an emergency where you're involving outside agencies just start talking in plain english.


I agree.

BTW, we have a company policy that forbids the phrase "be advised". According to the memo, it is redundant and unnesscary. I have been guilty of using it, "Dispatch, be advised that we are gridlocked and have an extended ETA". 

Dont sweat the small stuff. We have other things to worry about.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 7, 2009)

spisco85 said:


> Actually the use of niner came from international travel because in German nein (sp?) means no.


And in a noisy environment, nine also sounds a lot like five, so niner is a safe way to go.

I almost forgot *"show us"*, as in _"Show us transporting priority three times one at this time"_.  That's another tres' annoying and redundant term.


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## NJN (Mar 8, 2009)

> I almost forgot *"show us"*, as in _"Show us transporting priority three times one at this time"_.  That's another tres' annoying and redundant term.


My partner once did that, he said "Show me 10-8 (Available)", so i took a piece of paper and showed him 10-8.


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## Chimpie (Mar 9, 2009)

NJNewbie196 said:


> My partner once did that, he said "Show me 10-8 (Available)", so i took a piece of paper and showed him 10-8.



I think we've all done that.


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## BossyCow (Mar 9, 2009)

one of my favorite Kliban Cartoons is a picture of Roger Wilco...
http://indigenousgeek.blogspot.com/2006/03/kliban-found.html


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## MRE (Mar 9, 2009)

I have two complaints;

The first is the police at my old college.  They got into the habit of saying "Received" and "K" as responses, which I have no problem with.  However, there are a few who don't know when to use them, and instead of using them to acknowledge a transmission, you would hear something like this: Dispatch - "Are you close to the East Lot?"  Officer - "K"   Its not an affirmative response.  Also, these were not rent a cops, these were State Police.

The second is the dispatch for my dept.  The evening tone test goes as follows (with made up callsign and dept):   (Tones) ABC234, Hilltown Fire Dept, Hilltown, Massachusetts on the air with your test; ABC234 is clear 1800 hours.  (Tones) Hilltown Car 1 test, this is only your test, Hilltown Car 1 is clear 1801.

First, the dispatcher is "ABC234", and they clear themselves after the first tone, but not the second.  For that one they clear Car 1 (fire chief) even though he was never on the air.  

One other issue is our police getting toned 30 seconds before the fire dept for an activated fire alarm call.


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## BLSBoy (Mar 9, 2009)

W1IM said:


> I have two complaints;
> 
> The first is the police at my old college.  They got into the habit of saying "Received" and "K" as responses, which I have no problem with.  However, there are a few who don't know when to use them, and instead of using them to acknowledge a transmission, you would hear something like this: Dispatch - "Are you close to the East Lot?"  Officer - "K"   Its not an affirmative response.  Also, these were not rent a cops, these were State Police.



"K" is a hold over from the telegraph days. You would send a statement, and be expecting a response, such as, "how is the weather? K."

To use it properly, one would start it like this. 
"MedCom, Medic 1, K."
"Medic 1"
"Medic 1 is assignment complete, off radio in quarters"


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## Fir Na Au Saol (Jul 8, 2009)

Where I was working, we had a dispatcher who would relay information, then finish with "10-4?" Using 10-4 as a query as to whether or not you received/understood the message. That always drove me nuts.

As for "niner". I was taught in flight school to use "niner" for nine and "fife" for five for clarity over the radio. However, I never felt the need to use them on the EMS radio.


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## HotelCo (Jul 8, 2009)

Roger, Wilco. I've always hated it.


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## MRE (Jul 8, 2009)

BLSBoy said:


> "K" is a hold over from the telegraph days. You would send a statement, and be expecting a response, such as, "how is the weather? K."



Hmm, hadn't heard that one before.  They only started using it my last year there, so I'm not sure how traditional it was.  Generally, K was used as an acknowledgement, and I never heard it used at the end of a statement, always as a response, so my guess would be that they aren't using anything close to the telegraph K.





			
				Fir Na Au Saol said:
			
		

> "Where I was working, we had a dispatcher who would relay information, then finish with "10-4?" Using 10-4 as a query as to whether or not you received/understood the message. That always drove me nuts.



That type of thing is actually fairly common in radio.  See BLSBoy's comment above.  In other radio services, specifically amateur radio, old telegraph Q codes are still used, and can be a question or answer.  In the case of QSL, it is a request for confirmation of receipt of a message when used at the end of the message, or the confirmation itself when used at the beginning of a message, just like 10-4 in your case.  This type of confirmation is generally used when signals are weak and transmissions are difficult to understand.

Ex:  
Operator 1: "The address is 123 Main St, red house on the left, QSL?

Operator 2: "QSL, thanks"


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Jul 8, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> There is no aspect of EMS where the pointless "monkey see - monkey do" culture exists than in radio communications.  There are so many things that people say on the radio for no other reason than that's what they heard someone else say, without ever giving a single intelligent thought to why they should or should not say it.  Here's my list of the top annoying things that people say on the radio:
> 
> *Be advised* - (ex. "_Be advised_ we're transporting.") Could there possibly be a more pointless term?
> 
> ...



We are required when marking to include the number of patients seo we'll usually say "Medic 1 will be transporting one to hospital A"

Also, I we avoid using copy because its too short and can easily be lost in the airwaves.  We prefer message received so even if you only get "-age received" you know what happened.


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## JonTullos (Jul 8, 2009)

benkfd said:


> We have a dispatcher that always wants us to "Make" things....."Make such and such an address for difficulty breathing".......... WE CAN'T MAKE ANYTHING RIGHT NOW WE'RE BUSY!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL :huh:



Well... you are from K-ville (I used to live in Fort Wayne). 

A lot of locales require a unit to say "transport one time, no riders, mileage..." due to regulations imposed on them by their insurance company.  When I dispatched our ambos were required to give that information for that reason.  The rest of it ("be advised," etc.) is really dumb.  10-codes are a big pet peeve of mine.


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## bstone (Jul 8, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> "Over and out" because people who use this obviously have no clue what "over" and "out" means.



I am so over you and outta here!


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## JPINFV (Jul 8, 2009)

bstone said:


> I am so over you and outta here!



That's what she said.


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