# Why do firefighter/paramedics make so much money in California?



## medictruth (Jun 10, 2011)

Can anyone help with this. I dont understand how they can make an excess of 100,000 dollars per year. My question is, why?


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## HotelCo (Jun 10, 2011)

medictruth said:


> Can anyone help with this. I dont understand how they can make an excess of 100,000 dollars per year. My question is, why?



Taxes, overtime?


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 10, 2011)

Overtime, double time etc. Forced overtime and optional. Firefighters in my town work 72 hours on and then 96 hours off. But with the forced and optional overtime the hours go up alot. And also the pay is alot higher then it is for EMS here. One of the main reasons alot of people switch over to fire.


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## shfd739 (Jun 10, 2011)

High base rate plus overtime. Ive heard of fire paramedics in San Antonio hitting six figures due to working lots of overtime. Money is out there if they are willing to work.


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## adamjh3 (Jun 10, 2011)

High cost of living. Cheapest dump of a studio apartment I've found here was $600 a month.


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## akflightmedic (Jun 10, 2011)

It is a cost of living issue...when you break it down, they really are just making average salaries for the area they work in.

Note I did not include the overtime junkies or the people who commute 3+ hours from more affordable communities to work in the higher paying city, town, county, district...whatever, as they will always skew the results.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 10, 2011)

adamjh3 said:


> High cost of living. Cheapest dump of a studio apartment I've found here was $600 a month.



Jeeze. I could rent a pretty nice house for that here. Nice houses that are 2 story are about $800-$1,500 a month.


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## adamjh3 (Jun 10, 2011)

firefite said:


> Jeeze. I could rent a pretty nice house for that here. Nice houses that are 2 story are about $800-$1,500 a month.



where exactly is the middle of nowhere, California if you don't mind my asking?


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 10, 2011)

adamjh3 said:


> where exactly is the middle of nowhere, California if you don't mind my asking?



The east end of riverside county


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## Symbolic (Jun 10, 2011)

medictruth said:


> Can anyone help with this. I dont understand how they can make an excess of 100,000 dollars per year. My question is, why?



Fire/Medics usually make more due to the fact they work for the city and many departments consider the Medic position to be a paid promotion. In the neighboring state of Arizona they make about $60,000 a year, so it probably averages out to the same when you factor in the cost of living/overtime.


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## HotelCo (Jun 10, 2011)

I told some guys at the station (all but one are firefighters) about an idea I had to save cities money. 

First, why should a paramedic with the fire department make more than one that works for a private service, if that private were to take the 911 contract for the city? They shouldn't. 

They argued that because the medics are also firefighters. They should get paid more, because they do two jobs, and being a firefighter is dangerous, and physically demanding. I went with it...

I said this: I'd pay them what a private medic in the area makes for their base pay. When they go on a fire call, their pay per hour will jump while they're on the call. Makes sense to me, but judging by their reactions, I dont think it'd be too popular with firefighters. 


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## mikeward (Jun 10, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I said this: I'd pay them what a private medic in the area makes for their base pay. When they go on a fire call, their pay per hour will jump while they're on the call. Makes sense to me, but judging by their reactions, I dont think it'd be too popular with firefighters.



FDNY firefighters get a per-call premium when they respond to ems assist calls as a certified first responder-defibrillator/firefighter.


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## HotelCo (Jun 10, 2011)

mikeward said:


> FDNY firefighters get a per-call premium when they respond to ems assist calls as a certified first responder-defibrillator/firefighter.



Even when they're not needed? I know around here, FDs boost their numbers on the books by responding along with EMS. The result is 6 firefighters, and two cops in your kitchen for your slip and fall. 


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## mikeward (Jun 10, 2011)

FDNY sends fire companies on the life-threatening calls when the unit is closer than ems.


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## abckidsmom (Jun 10, 2011)

The highest paid firemedics in the NOVA region earn about that with overtime and medic incentive pay.  And for our family, we couldn't live in that area on that income.  My hubby commutes almost 2 hours for the NOVA income on the Central VA cost of living, and we live a comfortable life with a lot of children and I only work part time (and that mostly cause I want to, not cause we're dying for my piddly income).

Those high cost of living areas, I can see it...it's tough to make ends meet on a "reasonable" salary when average rent for a 3/4 BR place is $2.5K.


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## medictruth (Jun 10, 2011)

I understand cost of living,  but getting paid over 100,000 a year in my opinion is a little much. 90% of a fire dept. call volume are medical aids. So why are the private medics getting the crap end of the paycheck. They live in the same area, but start their salary around 13 to 14 dollars an hour. And yes they are are firefighters too, but when you look at what they do that 90% of the time it doesnt add up.


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## abckidsmom (Jun 10, 2011)

medictruth said:


> I understand cost of living,  but getting paid over 100,000 a year in my opinion is a little much. 90% of a fire dept. call volume are medical aids. So why are the private medics getting the crap end of the paycheck. They live in the same area, but start their salary around 13 to 14 dollars an hour. And yes they are are firefighters too, but when you look at what they do that 90% of the time it doesnt add up.



In the Northern VA area, private medics do interfacility stuff only, not even emergencies out of nursing homes and get paid $18 ish, which goes up with experience and time on the job.

It is way less than the FD jobs, but I think it compares.  I don't know anyone who has made an entire career at a private ambulance service, and I think the companies run their operations knowing that breaking in the next newbie is just around the corner.


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## Symbolic (Jun 10, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I told some guys at the station (all but one are firefighters) about an idea I had to save cities money.
> 
> First, why should a paramedic with the fire department make more than one that works for a private service, if that private were to take the 911 contract for the city? They shouldn't.
> 
> ...



Sounds like an interesting idea.

I can definitely see how the FF's weren't keen on the idea. They have a point in the fact that even though they are assigned to a medic truck they are still responsible for carrying out fire ground activities and backing up fire crews when personnel is limited. Not all Fire medics are assigned to EMS trucks either. There are those that ride on engines and act as both Medic and Firefighter based on the nature of the call, so they are essentially being compensated for their added certification. 

Also, If there wasn't an incentive to make more money, FF's definitely wouldn't be signing up for Medic. I hate to say it, but most FF's have limited room for advancement and opportunities are scarce so they end up going that route out of necessity (not saying that's the way things should be).


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## 46Young (Jun 10, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I told some guys at the station (all but one are firefighters) about an idea I had to save cities money.
> 
> First, why should a paramedic with the fire department make more than one that works for a private service, if that private were to take the 911 contract for the city? They shouldn't.
> 
> ...



The flaw I find with your proposal is that the firemedics need to train and become/remain proficient in the fire side. The call volume is irrelevant. Full time single role firefighters wouldn't accept a paid on call arrangement, so why would the firemedics in your city agree to that?

On the flip side, my department starts firemedics out two steps higher than a basic firefighter after they complete their ALS internship. That's around 5k. They also get 10% of a basic FF's salary as ALS cert pay, which is almost 5k. They get hourly riding pay to be an ALS provider, $3 on the medic unit, or $2 on the engine. That's probably another 7k, give or take a grand. After two years, you can get an easy promotion to EMS Tech, which moves you up a pay grade, and up a step as well. That's another 10% of base, almost another 6k. That's 23k give or take, just off the top of my head. ALS is half of my job description. I'm being paid 23k more than I would be without my ALS cert. Multiply that x 2, and that's 56k, which is a little more than the going rate for for a single role paramedic in N'thn VA. We're all firefighters regardless, so the base salary applies to all of us. The ALS becomes half of one's job description if they choose to have it, so half of the going rate for an EMS only medic is appropriate.

As far as call volume, simple run numbers don't tell the whole story. 70-80 of the dispatched calls may be EMS, but the suppression calls can involve numerous fire companies. A first alarm uses seven suppression units, a BC, an EMS Capt, and a medic unit. That's 8-2 if you're keeping score. An MVA is both EMS and suppression, and that can be engine/medic, or engine/medic/rescue squad/BC. An inside gas leak will be two engines, a truck, and a medic. A more accurate way to express the workload would be to look at the net utilization for each type of unit, to tally the number of suppression calls by unit, add that up, do that for EMS runs, then do the same for the txp units. I'm sure that EMS does run more, but the arbitrary 70-80 that's often thrown out should be re-evaluated.


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## 46Young (Jun 10, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Even when they're not needed? I know around here, FDs boost their numbers on the books by responding along with EMS. The result is 6 firefighters, and two cops in your kitchen for your slip and fall.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I ran NYC EMS a few years ago. They would be dispatched to ALS job types only, such as arrests, diff breathers,  the unconscious, etc. They weren't dispatched to MVA's, sick job, the intox, EDP, abd pain, injuries, etc. We would usually cancell them when we got onscene, and call BLS for pt care assistance if we needed help. We would call them only for lift assistance if we really needed it.


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## 46Young (Jun 10, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> The highest paid firemedics in the NOVA region earn about that with overtime and medic incentive pay.  And for our family, we couldn't live in that area on that income.  My hubby commutes almost 2 hours for the NOVA income on the Central VA cost of living, and we live a comfortable life with a lot of children and I only work part time (and that mostly cause I want to, not cause we're dying for my piddly income).
> 
> Those high cost of living areas, I can see it...it's tough to make ends meet on a "reasonable" salary when average rent for a 3/4 BR place is $2.5K.



True. I don't have a lot of time on the job, but I've already earned over 52k gross over 10 pay periods out of 26 with a fair amount of OT. My base with all incentives is around 80k by my best estimates. My wife doesn't need to work, although she's welcome to if it would make her happy.


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## 46Young (Jun 10, 2011)

medictruth said:


> I understand cost of living,  but getting paid over 100,000 a year in my opinion is a little much. 90% of a fire dept. call volume are medical aids. So why are the private medics getting the crap end of the paycheck. They live in the same area, but start their salary around 13 to 14 dollars an hour. And yes they are are firefighters too, but when you look at what they do that 90% of the time it doesnt add up.



The firemedics are being paid to maintain proficiency and a constant state of readiness for both EMS and suppression. It wouldn't be fair to suggest that the rural single role medic in an area of low call volume be paid welfare wages. Their job is important, even if they are used infrequently. The same goes for suppression personnel.

Understand that the privates have a transient workforce my nature. Relatively few choose to go their whole career working private EMS. It's predominately a stepping stone job for those working on degrees or waiting for a public safety job offer, be it police, fire, or some federal job perhaps. The private employer isn't going to pay them generously, since the turnover is abundant. They're not going to pay any more than they have to in order to keep their staffing at par.


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## beandip4all (Jun 11, 2011)

medictruth said:


> Why do firefighter/paramedics make so much money in California?



because they have good unions, strong lobbyists, and a high public sympathy factor.  [/endthread]


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## terrible one (Jun 11, 2011)

beandip4all said:


> because they have good unions, strong lobbyists, and a high public sympathy factor.  [/endthread]



pretty much sums it up right there.


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## mycrofft (Jun 12, 2011)

*Benadip4all missed only one:*

Civil Service Commission. They might not get you money, but they keep personnel practices and turnover (read that "firing guys and gals") reasonable. Mostly.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 12, 2011)

It's not that FF/Ps are paid too much, it's that single role medics are paid too little.


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 12, 2011)

Linuss said:


> It's not that FF/Ps are paid too much, it's that single role medics are paid too little.



Amen!


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## exodus (Jun 12, 2011)

firefite said:


> Jeeze. I could rent a pretty nice house for that here. Nice houses that are 2 story are about $800-$1,500 a month.



I wish! Im looking for a 2b1ba house up here, and OMG, they're all like 1k+ I found a few for under 800 but they all SUCK! lol.


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