# Respiratory vs. Stretcher



## johnguillen68 (Jul 5, 2010)

Ok, here is a question that I was curious about: My partner and I was providing EMS for a festival, the day was great no injuries just minor cuts. The festival was over so we decided to stay until pretty much the cleaning crew came along. a police officer on a bicycle came to us saying that there was a woman who can't breathe by her car. So we had our stretcher packed already with our BLS equipment. As we were running through the park my partner was at the feet pulling and I was at the head pushing. He almost I mean almost ran over this 3 year old kid. I swerved to the right to avoid any contact. Needless to say the kid was all right. We got to the lady and provided High Flow O2. Fire rescue came and took over. She was in good hands from there.

My question: If we would to ran over that kid would we stop to help this kid or continue to the lady? Mind you we had our stretcher packed with: backboard, suction, AED, BLS bag. So it was pretty heavy and I believe it would have done great damage to the kid. It was something we were talking about. What would be the right decision?


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## feldy (Jul 5, 2010)

thats a tough one...i would quickly assess the kid and call for back up. If the lady is having difficulty breathing that is obviously a high priority pt and she could stop at any minute. Maybe have one of you stay with the kid and one go with the officer to the DB pt. I wouldnt just leave the kid cause it could be seen as some sort of hit and run like assalt and battery.

Also...it seems that you and your partner were a little careless. I know you were just trying to get to the female pt quickly I would do the same thing, but your safety and the safety of others is the first priority then the pts. A swift walk should do. But hey we all get a little excited and want to help, but if you hit the kid and kept going a potential lawsuit could have been in your future.


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## Veneficus (Jul 5, 2010)

Good thing you weren't driving something.

Slow down, or as they say in school "no runing"

but if you did hit the kid you likely would have to stay with him and have others respond to the original incident.

You might also consider having one of you stay with the kid and the other go and provide O2 to somebody who probably wouldn't benefit much from it anyway.


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## firetender (Jul 5, 2010)

Had you run over the kid and injured him you would have created a dual responsibility situation; the call to which you were assigned and the call you created. 

I'm an advocate of cleaning up my own mess when it happens. Somehow, you'd have to figure out how neither would be neglected which could involve a call for backup, distribution of medical supplies such that one goes on to the Resp. and the other stays to tend to the kid, employing other people on the scenes to help each medic and someone assigned to go between the medics to communicate if necessary. The Lady gets the gurney because she is further distant from the rig than the kid. Tend to her, come back and rejoin the partner left with the kid.

You just handle it.


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## TransportJockey (Jul 5, 2010)

Why would you bother running, it's their emergency, not yours.


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## LondonMedic (Jul 6, 2010)

johnguillen68 said:


> As we were running through the park my partner was at the feet pulling and I was at the head pushing. He almost I mean almost ran over this 3 year old kid.


Did the kid just appear or something?

There are only two things worth running for, and one of them is last orders at the bar.


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## Veneficus (Jul 6, 2010)

LondonMedic said:


> Did the kid just appear or something?
> 
> There are only two things worth running for, and one of them is last orders at the bar.



If a person is running or driving fast into a scene, they are not paying attention to it.

If a responder is creating danger by their recklessness they should be removed from duty. For every 1 incident according to industrial safety specialists, there are 10 unreported close calls. So I am going to say that the providers mentioned here need to be remediated for their actions.

A shirt I once saw said "I am a bomb disposal technician, if you see me running try to keep up."

If you see me running, it is away from something, not towards it.


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## redcrossemt (Jul 6, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> If a person is running or driving fast into a scene, they are not paying attention to it.
> 
> If a responder is creating danger by their recklessness they should be removed from duty. For every 1 incident according to industrial safety specialists, there are 10 unreported close calls. So I am going to say that the providers mentioned here need to be remediated for their actions.
> 
> ...



Another t-shirt: "If it's a-glowin' we get a-goin'..."

Agreed with all that said "no running!" It's unsafe and unprofessional. It won't allow you to assess the scene, and might even cause an accident that prevents you from getting to the scene. Walk quickly with a purpose but be careful.


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## johnguillen68 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thank you everybody for all your answers. The kid was fine just a little scared from the rush. The lady was fine for Fire Rescue came and we transferred patient care.  I was upset at my partner because he's a gun-hoe person that wants to jump at every scene that may come along. I had to remind him "scene safe, BSI" Yes he was pissed at me. But I don't care for I've been in situations like this before and responded accordingly. I try to coach him into not flipping off the handle when a situation rises.
We are supposed to be the cool cats on the scene, if the patients see us worrying then they worry. I tell him this and he gets it but it just flyes over his head when we encounter a situation. I get mad at him and I tell him, but without making it seem that I'm micromanaging.


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## mycrofft (Jul 6, 2010)

*Spell check, dude.*

Besides that, if "seconds count", you have a goner anyway. 
If you injured someone in the course of response in an ambulance, you would be legally required to stop and wait.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 6, 2010)

Don't run.  Problem solved.


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## johnguillen68 (Jul 6, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Don't run.  Problem solved.



and you're right. I was walking at a good pace, enough to get there in a rush, because even if we're going to that person we had to look around at our surroundings to make sure she didn't pass out because some chemical leak somewhere near her. But my partner "Mr Gun-Hoe" was in a rush to get there to do something didn't go by the basics.


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## akflightmedic (Jul 6, 2010)

Does he prefer shooting over gardening or vice versa?

Can you get guns and hoes at the same store these days? I mean if it is gardening hoes we are discussing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gung-ho

Anyways, now that the funny part is over, the others have correctly answered. Why run?

1. Not your emergency
2. Did not allow adequate scene assessment time
3. Did not allow for proper and safe route planning (kid almost run over)
4. You show up on scene with heart racing, out of breath, sweating and looking extremely unprofessional.
5. You yourself are in "fight or flight" mode as opposed to being a clear calm rational medical professional

However, I bet you guys looked really cool and important dashing through the crowds with all you gear rushing to save a life. I bet you guys even had to yell "get out of the way", "Emergency coming through", or something really totally cool like that to get the crowd to give way. How awesome that must have been!!!

I forgot to mention a very IMPORTANT tip: Since you were at the head of the stretcher pushing and you were the one who realized you guys needed to slow it down, there are two very simple things you could have done which I have personally used myself in years past.

1. Instead of pushing on the stretcher, pull slightly against your partner (think puppy on a leash), he will tire out and/or slow down.
2. Tell him he must slow down (this is a team effort you know) and warn him if he does not you will release your end of the stretcher.
---You only have to do it once---


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 6, 2010)

akflightmedic said:


> 1. Not your emergency
> 2. Did not allow adequate scene assessment time
> 3. Did not allow for proper and safe route planning (kid almost run over)
> 4. You show up on scene with heart racing, out of breath, sweating and looking extremely unprofessional.
> 5. You yourself are in "fight or flight" mode as opposed to being a clear calm rational medical professional



6. You just ate another healthy Medic Meal at McDonalds and 20 years of double cheese is weighing you down.

Seriously... only 2 reasons to run EVER...

1. Something is chasing you
2. The Ice Cream truck is getting away


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## WolfmanHarris (Jul 7, 2010)

If you're a non-transporting agency at this event, why the stretcher?


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## akflightmedic (Jul 7, 2010)

They had to have something with wheels, otherwise they would have looked ridiculous as they wailed like a siren dashing through the crowds....


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## johnguillen68 (Jul 7, 2010)

very cute guys, but your right. Heart was racing and adrenaline was kicking, I could have pulled back on the stretcher to have him slow down. The reason we have the stretcher present is to have the back board on it along with the BLS bag and suction.
We should limit out equipment since we can't transport. The thing is we bring a cooler with ice to provide ice packs for track meets and since it was hot that day we had small water bottle in it to give out for those who need it. We are very limited with equipment. Our O2 is on the stretcher not in a bag. We are preparing to buy one but we are a 501c3 so money is tight for us.
I've explained it to my partner today about that day and he saw that I was right. He definitely realize that he was wrong but it a team thing so we were both wrong.
Today he kept talking about interventions that could have been done, I had to remind him we are not rescue we are BLS stablize the situation for ALS. Thats it. We want to of course to do more but we can't go beyond our Scope of practice. This is something he needs to understand.
I love my job and what I do. I believe I do it well. But I'm applying at departments just like everyone else. Still waiting for that opportunity. Meanwhile, I'll continue doing the best that I can do where I am.


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## mycrofft (Jul 7, 2010)

*Hang tough*

I once has my co-worker bumping the back of my heels as he tried to get me to go faster (I was in front and kept the litter in low position).
If he can't settle he needs to[partner for a week or so with the boss.


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## johnguillen68 (Jul 7, 2010)

I need a nice talk with him. It reflects on the both of us. People see two knuckleheads running not one.


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