# EMT-B required hours of training



## EDAC (May 7, 2009)

Being new here and to the EMT-B training I have read alot of threads here that talk about the required hours of training to become an EMT-B. 
Please Read: I am new to this field, know really nothing about it, and I just want to make an observation, if I may. I have read here that the hours training for an EMT-B is lacking, and/or inadequate, it may very well be, I don't have enough experience to make a determination. But I would like to address a couple of things. 110 hours seems to be the standard, my course is 150 hours, but I would like to add the following, classroom and lab training may be 150 hours, but i can tell you, that I will have much more than 150 hours of study/training in by the time I am finished. I have attended two classes so far, 4 hours in length each, my study time at home has been at least 4 hours a night so far. I can say that by the time all is said and done I will have at a  at least double that in classroom and home study time. So at a minimun I will have at least 300 hours devoted to this course. I also am taking a self study Medical Terminology course which will add more hours to my time devoted to my studies. I am also enrolled and will begin in June Med Terminology and Anatomy & Physiology. That is another 100 hours of class time and 50-75 home study hours. It is feasible that I will have close to 500 hours devoted to becoming an EMT-B. I am in no way trying to say I am going to be as educated as a paramedic or other provider, but I will have more than just the 110 hours that is the standard. I keep hearing just 110 hours, but in many cases it is going to be more than just that. If you think I am off base, let me know, but I do think that just because the course is 110 hours, that is all we are putting into it, some will have dedicated more time than that.

Thank You


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## daedalus (May 7, 2009)

We will all be judged by our lowest common denominator. There is a lot more to it than that, but it has all been hashed out here quite extensively. The truth is, even a 300 hour course is woefully inadequate.


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## VGFDEMT34 (May 7, 2009)

daedalus said:


> We will all be judged by our lowest common denominator. There is a lot more to it than that, but it has all been hashed out here quite extensively. The truth is, even a 300 hour course is woefully inadequate.



As is a 1200+ hour course, when you consider some of the things in our scope of practice.


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## CAOX3 (May 7, 2009)

I  believe we will have reached a milestone when we measure it in semesters and not hours.


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## Scout (May 7, 2009)

you'd think so but i know people doing semesters and semesters of work and doing 2 hours or less a week all tolled.


now a credit system that reflects hours in lecture, practicle learning and backgroud work would be better.

Finishing off my semester where is did 8-6 5 days a week for the majority and for the exam period i'm up on 10-12 6 days a week, sitting next to an arts student with 2 exams totaling 2 hours not studying. Both did a semester.


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## rescuepoppy (May 7, 2009)

EDAC said:


> Being new here and to the EMT-B training I have read alot of threads here that talk about the required hours of training to become an EMT-B.
> Please Read: I am new to this field, know really nothing about it, and I just want to make an observation, if I may. I have read here that the hours training for an EMT-B is lacking, and/or inadequate, it may very well be, I don't have enough experience to make a determination. But I would like to address a couple of things. 110 hours seems to be the standard, my course is 150 hours, but I would like to add the following, classroom and lab training may be 150 hours, but i can tell you, that I will have much more than 150 hours of study/training in by the time I am finished. I have attended two classes so far, 4 hours in length each, my study time at home has been at least 4 hours a night so far. I can say that by the time all is said and done I will have at a  at least double that in classroom and home study time. So at a minimun I will have at least 300 hours devoted to this course. I also am taking a self study Medical Terminology course which will add more hours to my time devoted to my studies. I am also enrolled and will begin in June Med Terminology and Anatomy & Physiology. That is another 100 hours of class time and 50-75 home study hours. It is feasible that I will have close to 500 hours devoted to becoming an EMT-B. I am in no way trying to say I am going to be as educated as a paramedic or other provider, but I will have more than just the 110 hours that is the standard. I keep hearing just 110 hours, but in many cases it is going to be more than just that. If you think I am off base, let me know, but I do think that just because the course is 110 hours, that is all we are putting into it, some will have dedicated more time than that.
> 
> Thank You



  I applaud you for going above the basic training . But truth is you will still be a basic,the only people who will know what other education you have gotten on your own. My thoughts are that if you only go to the extent that you have to to get a certification regardless of the level then that is inadequate the only way to be your best is to continue your education beyond what is required. No matter if you remain as a basic or progress up to the highest level of paramedic the base class hours are not enough to be the best care giver you can be. In order to do that you must be willing to go above and beyond the bare minimum.


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## EDAC (May 7, 2009)

Thank you for your responses, I can appreciate the fact that your opinions are the basic is just not enough, and I would probably agree. But the system is what it is and the only way for me to compensate for that is to become educated beyond what is the minumim. My plan is to go to paramedic school as soon as allowed, which means some practical experience as a basic, and then moving on to the next phase development. My only question is, how much experience is expected of me as a basic before moving to paramedic school? I am in California, and the parameters are not well defined, most schools I have looked at say either working as a basic, or having some experience as a basic, but a timeline is not established.


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## daedalus (May 7, 2009)

Marriage and Family therapists require 3,000 clinical hours *in addition* to their didactic in order to take the license exam.

That is double the class and clinical time for paramedic, just on their clinical time.


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## AJ Hidell (May 8, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Marriage and Family therapists require 3,000 clinical hours *in addition* to their didactic in order to take the license exam.


So do most state cosmetology boards.  Some states require more than that just to be a barber.  Physical Therapists don't even perform invasive therapeutics, and they require a minimum entry level of a Master's Degree, with many entering at the Doctorate level.

Nail technicians are required to have more training than an EMT-B.

EMS education is a joke and a disgrace.

What exactly was the point of this thread?  :unsure:


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## EDAC (May 8, 2009)

If it is such a joke why are you in it? Seriuosly, why would you get into a field that you feel is such a disgrace? The point of the thread is not hard, I was stating an observation and asking why there is so much belittling of the time requred for EMS. I don't know about you, but if was so unhappy with a system I worked or was trained in I would leave or make an improvement. Just saying on a public forum how much of a joke it is accomplishes little and makes me wonder why you would continue in the field. Perhaps you would be happier somewhere else? Just a thought. I am very happy with my life, and made a concious decision to get into this field, whether the training is a joke or not remains to be seen. If it were so bad I really don't think the majority of the country would be using the system to respond to prehospital emergencies. I have yet to travel anywhere in the country where there is not an EMS service of some sort or another, seems to be the standard of practice. Try as you may, I won't be discouraged by a few sour apples who are tired, old or burned out. It just strikes me funny that the people who are always *****ing about the system are in the system working and making a living, if you don't like it, get out it is a free country, you are not being forced to stay in a job that is a joke, you could go do something else, where you may feel little more significant, perhaps even be happy about your training. It seem hypocritical to demonize an industry, and then work in the same industry and discourage others who are new to the system. Usually ones who are more vocal from the confines and anonymity of the internet are those who can't or won't do something useful away from the keyboard. 

Maybe that cleared it up for you? Get the point now? I came here to perhaps learn something, if its just going to be the system sucks, the training is a joke, EMT-B's no don't know anything, you are an advanced first-aid provider, and so on, get it out of your system now. Now provide something with some substance, that actually is going to make a difference, typing form your keyboard isn't it. Give me something substantial, tangible, USEFUL for Christ's sake, whinning about is not going to make a difference. Give me something useful, something that is going to make a difference in the training I am going through now, just saying it is a joke is retarded, it is of no benefit to anyone who is going through training now. I'll just go to my instructor on Monday and tell him AJ from EMTLIFE.COM forum says your training is a joke, maybe he'll say, WOW! you are right! We will change the curiculum right now. All this time we have been doing it wrong, but AJ says it is a joke, so it must be. Stop the presses, rewrite the book forget everything you learned so far, and we will see you Wednesday with the new improved EMS training curiculum. Aint'gonna happen, give me something USEFUL!


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## reaper (May 9, 2009)

Mainly because EMT-B training is a joke and is really not needed at all. We work in these systems to try and make EMS what it should have been 20 years ago. We do have the "that's the way it's always been done" attitude.

When you get an education and experience under your belt, come back and tell us that it is not a joke and should stay the way it is. Until that happens, I would not try talking down to a man that has more experience and education then you will ever receive!

No other medical field requires you to step up in education. EMS should do away with EMT all together and just have a two year medic school. That is never going to happen, because we have little trained people that will do the job cheaper.

Sorry guys for the rant, just can't stand someone with no experience in the profession, trying to tell us all how it should be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## daedalus (May 9, 2009)

EDAC said:


> If it is such a joke why are you in it? Seriuosly, why would you get into a field that you feel is such a disgrace? The point of the thread is not hard, I was stating an observation and asking why there is so much belittling of the time requred for EMS. I don't know about you, but if was so unhappy with a system I worked or was trained in I would leave or make an improvement. Just saying on a public forum how much of a joke it is accomplishes little and makes me wonder why you would continue in the field. Perhaps you would be happier somewhere else? Just a thought. I am very happy with my life, and made a concious decision to get into this field, whether the training is a joke or not remains to be seen. If it were so bad I really don't think the majority of the country would be using the system to respond to prehospital emergencies. I have yet to travel anywhere in the country where there is not an EMS service of some sort or another, seems to be the standard of practice. Try as you may, I won't be discouraged by a few sour apples who are tired, old or burned out. It just strikes me funny that the people who are always *****ing about the system are in the system working and making a living, if you don't like it, get out it is a free country, you are not being forced to stay in a job that is a joke, you could go do something else, where you may feel little more significant, perhaps even be happy about your training. It seem hypocritical to demonize an industry, and then work in the same industry and discourage others who are new to the system. Usually ones who are more vocal from the confines and anonymity of the internet are those who can't or won't do something useful away from the keyboard.
> 
> Maybe that cleared it up for you? Get the point now? I came here to perhaps learn something, if its just going to be the system sucks, the training is a joke, EMT-B's no don't know anything, you are an advanced first-aid provider, and so on, get it out of your system now. Now provide something with some substance, that actually is going to make a difference, typing form your keyboard isn't it. Give me something substantial, tangible, USEFUL for Christ's sake, whinning about is not going to make a difference. Give me something useful, something that is going to make a difference in the training I am going through now, just saying it is a joke is retarded, it is of no benefit to anyone who is going through training now. I'll just go to my instructor on Monday and tell him AJ from EMTLIFE.COM forum says your training is a joke, maybe he'll say, WOW! you are right! We will change the curiculum right now. All this time we have been doing it wrong, but AJ says it is a joke, so it must be. Stop the presses, rewrite the book forget everything you learned so far, and we will see you Wednesday with the new improved EMS training curiculum. Aint'gonna happen, give me something USEFUL!


First, most here that advocate for education do work VERY hard to improve EMS education. I personally have written letters to local and state politicians, and have taken careful care to pick a medic program that is accredited and offers a college degree. Second, I am in the pre req phase for medical/PA school and after obtaining advanced medical education, will be working at the policy level to obtain change for EMS. Third, if you do not like what we have to say, do not start a thread. You are here on a forum accessible to everybody, and we are all welcome to post our own opinions at will (on the discretion of the admins). What you say will be judged by your peers. Forth, you are arguing with people with vastly more education and health care experience than yourself, and you may be left with egg on your face if you continue with emotional outbursts. Fifth, I am not an old burned out sour grape, I am in my very early 20s and am very excited to start working as a paramedic, but I still think that EMT and medic education is a joke. Sixth, you want to know why EMS is the way is is? Your logic of "everybody is doing it this way so it must not be wrong" is foolish. Your going to have to open your ears (and eyes) and pock around on this forum where you will find rational, sound, and educated opinions on why EMS is where it is. You are an EMT student, no offense, but you are in no position challenge a paramedic/RN.


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## EDAC (May 9, 2009)

reaper said:


> Mainly because EMT-B training is a joke and is really not needed at all. We work in these systems to try and make EMS what it should have been 20 years ago. We do have the "that's the way it's always been done" attitude.
> 
> When you get an education and experience under your belt, come back and tell us that it is not a joke and should stay the way it is. Until that happens, I would not try talking down to a man that has more experience and education then you will ever receive!
> 
> ...



How do I know who or what he is, just because he or you say he is, that makes it fact, for all I know he isn't, but stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night. And I would also say, if you or he is knowingly working in an industry providing substandard care to victims, shame on You! It is unethical, and probably borders on criminal. The last time I checked I have the right express my opinion whether or not you or anybody else likes it. If dissenting opinions are not allowed here maybe it should be a private pay forum, not a public forum. Again you say you are willingly working in a system that is never going to get better, why? Have you no shame? Why on earth would participate in a broken system and profit from it? Perhaps you need to take a step back and rethink what you are contribiting to.

Maybe they sould do away with EMT's, I can't speculate on that right now, but they are here now and a fact of life, again if it truely goes against what you believe in, why would you actively participate and add to the problem. Walk away if it is not what you stand for. 

FYI I do have experience and education under my belt, lots of it. I have led a full and satisfiying and comfortable life. All traits that come from education and experience. And saying that he has more education and experience than i will ever recieve is purely speculative and somewhat ignorant, given the fact you know nothing about me or my background. If you want to stay with facts that you have personal knowledge of, fine, otherwise arguing about it is not relevant.

"No other medical field requires you to step up in education." Not certain what that means, but does not sound right to me. Perhaps it did not come out correctly.


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## FireMedic65 (May 9, 2009)

why does it really matter on how many hour are required?  EMS Education is all about what each individual puts into their training, now how many hours they sit in lectures.  Let's be honest, there isn't much to it at all in EMT-B.


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## daedalus (May 9, 2009)

I cannot even believe this. If this is what my predecessors before me have battled for so many years, well I am surprised that they are not in early graves. I do not even know how to respond.


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## FireMedic65 (May 9, 2009)

I know EMTs who have attended "accelerated" courses that were a e weeks long.  Some of them suck really bad, and some of them actually sat down and studied.  Those are the ones who know their *** from a hole in the ground and went on to become good medics.  Same goes with the programs that take 6months plus.  It's all what you put into it!


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## Sasha (May 9, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> So do most state cosmetology boards.  Some states require more than that just to be a barber.  Physical Therapists don't even perform invasive therapeutics, and they require a minimum entry level of a Master's Degree, with many entering at the Doctorate level.
> 
> Nail technicians are required to have more training than an EMT-B.
> 
> ...




Clown College is almost double the required training hours of an EMT class!


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## FireMedic65 (May 9, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Clown College is almost double the required training hours of an EMT class!



there really is clown colleges?


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## EDAC (May 9, 2009)

daedalus said:


> First, most here that advocate for education do work VERY hard to improve EMS education. I personally have written letters to local and state politicians, and have taken careful care to pick a medic program that is accredited and offers a college degree. Second, I am in the pre req phase for medical/PA school and after obtaining advanced medical education, will be working at the policy level to obtain change for EMS. Third, if you do not like what we have to say, do not start a thread. You are here on a forum accessible to everybody, and we are all welcome to post our own opinions at will (on the discretion of the admins). What you say will be judged by your peers. Forth, you are arguing with people with vastly more education and health care experience than yourself, and you may be left with egg on your face if you continue with emotional outbursts. Fifth, I am not an old burned out sour grape, I am in my very early 20s and am very excited to start working as a paramedic, but I still think that EMT and medic education is a joke. Sixth, you want to know why EMS is the way is is? Your logic of "everybody is doing it this way so it must not be wrong" is foolish. Your going to have to open your ears (and eyes) and pock around on this forum where you will find rational, sound, and educated opinions on why EMS is where it is. You are an EMT student, no offense, but you are in no position challenge a paramedic/RN.



Look if you are going to make an arguement about my post at least read and comprehend it. I never said anywhere that you or anyone else is not welcome to post, just the opposite, I said give me something I can use. Just saying EMS is a joke is not helpful to me. It could be just the opinion of one or many, if it is then why? It was not expounded upon. Second I did not say sour grape, I said sour apple. Third, unless you are in tune with my state of mind and thoughts, don't make asinine assuptions about my emotional state, it makes you sound ridiculous. I did not say I did not like what was said I said it was not helpful to me. Really are you here to advocate EMS or just find someone to make misguided statements about their posts. If you are truely an advocate, great tell me why, what is wrong, what can be done to fix it, what i can do to better`prepare myself. Your reply did very little of that, just told me I am not educated, don't know anything, foolish. That does very little to further your cause.


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## Sasha (May 9, 2009)

FireMedic65 said:


> there really is clown colleges?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringling_Brothers_and_Barnum_&_Bailey_Clown_College


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## Sasha (May 9, 2009)

> great tell me why, what is wrong, what can be done to fix it, what i can do to better`prepare myself. Your reply did very little of that, just told me I am not educated, don't know anything, foolish. That does very little to further your cause.



That's what's wrong, the educational standards.


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## FireMedic65 (May 9, 2009)

This issue has been discussed many times on many different forums.  It will never be let go it seems.  Although education is very important in EMS, it's all what you put into it.  You can learn very little from actually sitting through lectures, mostly what which is read from a powerpoint presentation that comes right out of your book anyway.

If you want to be a good provider, sit and and read your book.  Improving the education system for EMS is simply a matter of requiring more from the students and more rigorous training. Does this mean more time?  Yes, it does, and no I am not contradicting myself.  I still stand by my words in education is what you put into it.  

The basic level of EMT is too simple.  Like stated previously, the system is a joke and people who want to paint nails have more time in training.  EMS is not a hobby, peoples lives are at stake.  Pharmacology, anatomy, physiology should be a required college course before you can even start your EMT-B training.


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## EDAC (May 9, 2009)

Sasha said:


> That's what's wrong, the educational standards.



OK great, now tell me what can be done to fix it. What I can do to better`prepare myself. 

I worked in an industry where every June we went to Sacramento, about 10,000 strong met with our leaders, gave our opinions on the laws affecting our industry. Do you think we were heard? Yes we were many laws were changed, voted down, aloud voice can make a difference, and tere is strength in numbers, but complaining on an internet chat board and writing letters to your elected officials is not going to get you far. If EMS is truely broken then you will have to make a stand and do it in great numbers, if you can't get the support to do that, then I would question the legitmacy of the claim.


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## AJ Hidell (May 9, 2009)

Dude, get off it.  Nobody cares what an expert you were at whatever industry you crawled out of, or how much life experience you have.  That's old news.  This is a new game.  You know nada about EMS.  You're in our house now.  Don't come here with a couple of weeks of book learnin' behind you and pretend that you are going to save us from ourselves.  Yes, anyone is welcome to mouth off on the Internet.  But it takes more than verbal diarrhea from a n00b to earn any respect for your opinions.  Regardless of your right to give it, your opinion is worthless.  You have zero education or experience from which to form an informed or intelligent opinion.  So don't get all bent out of shape over people giving no credence to your mindless drivel here.  If you want to succeed in this new hobby of yours, drop the attitude and do a lot more listening than talking.  Had you actually read a few topics before starting with your pointless posts, you'd already know the answers to the questions you are asking, and possibly even realize how silly you are acting.


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## EDAC (May 9, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Dude, get off it.  Nobody cares what an expert you were at whatever industry you crawled out of, or how much life experience you have.  That's old news.  This is a new game.  You know nada about EMS.  You're in our house now.  Don't come here with a couple of weeks of book learnin' behind you and pretend that you are going to save us from ourselves.  Yes, anyone is welcome to mouth off on the Internet.  But it takes more than verbal diarrhea from a n00b to earn any respect for your opinions.  Regardless of your right to give it, your opinion is worthless.  You have zero education or experience from which to form an informed or intelligent opinion.  So don't get all bent out of shape over people giving no credence to your mindless drivel here.  If you want to succeed in this new hobby of yours, drop the attitude and do a lot more listening than talking.  Had you actually read a few topics before starting with your pointless posts, you'd already know the answers to the questions you are asking, and possibly even realize how silly you are acting.



Ah, there you go, the kind of thing that i have come to expect here. Instead of having an intellegent response, your primal instinct is to go into defense mode and try to overcome your self imposed inadequacies. If that is the only respons you are capable of giving I really feel sorry for you. I kinda thought you may be able to formulate better thoughts, but appearently not, you did nothing but try to put me down using a lot of childish and mindless articulation. if you had something intellegent to say i might listen to you, when you want to come up to an adult level, please do, you may even pass for human. You gave nothing to this post other than mean spirited and less than classy words. I really don't care who you are or think you are, you have no significance to me or my life. Play the funny buffoon here all you want, it fits you well. If you don't have the mental capacity to do anything else other than "attempt" to put others down great, you must do what you need to do to compensate for your "short' comings. Although you can't or won't give the same considerations, i do look forward to having a meaningful exchange of ideas with you, but until then I really don't want to sink to your level, I will wait for you to drag yourself up. Your professionalism just beams a light of hope and forward thinking, you must be proud.


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## daedalus (May 9, 2009)

EDAC said:


> Ah, there you go, the kind of thing that i have come to expect here. Instead of having an intellegent response, your primal instinct is to go into defense mode and try to overcome your self imposed inadequacies. If that is the only respons you are capable of giving I really feel sorry for you. I kinda thought you may be able to formulate better thoughts, but appearently not, you did nothing but try to put me down using a lot of childish and mindless articulation. if you had something intellegent to say i might listen to you, when you want to come up to an adult level, please do, you may even pass for human. You gave nothing to this post other than mean spirited and less than classy words. I really don't care who you are or think you are, you have no significance to me or my life. Play the funny buffoon here all you want, it fits you well. If you don't have the mental capacity to do anything else other than "attempt" to put others down great, you must do what you need to do to compensate for your "short' comings. Although you can't or won't give the same considerations, i do look forward to having a meaningful exchange of ideas with you, but until then I really don't want to sink to your level, I will wait for you to drag yourself up. Your professionalism just beams a light of hope and forward thinking, you must be proud.


Actually, he did give you some pretty sound advice. If you take a few hours to read some threads, you will realize why it is not possible at this time to amass a great number of paramedics in fire based states to support more education. But really, if you think there is no problem with a person providing medical care to my or your family with 110 hour course behind them, well, we do not need you anywhere near EMS.


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## EDAC (May 9, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Actually, he did give you some pretty sound advice. If you take a few hours to read some threads, you will realize why it is not possible at this time to amass a great number of paramedics in fire based states to support more education. But really, if you think there is no problem with a person providing medical care to my or your family with 110 hour course behind them, well, we do not need you anywhere near EMS.



I did not say anywhere in any of my posts if I thought 110 hours was enough or not. No mention of it from me of whether it is good or bad. I don't know, and stated such earlier. I ahve read ad nausem the many posts here on education, or lack there of. If you can't engage and generate new ideas why have an open forum, just shut it off and only allow people to just search. If you or anybody else has answered a question and feels that they don't want to participate, fine. Maybe someone who has not weighed in has a new or differing opinion. If :censored: thinks my post is pointless that is his opinion, and his opinion is just that, his opinion. I give no creedance to what he says at this time, he cannot conduct himself like a human being. As I stated if he wants to engage in intellengent adult discussion, and try to refrain from the sophmoric BS, I will gladly welcome anything he has to say, and take it into consideration.


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## AJ Hidell (May 9, 2009)

EDAC said:


> If you can't engage and generate new ideas why have an open forum, just shut it off and only allow people to just search. If you or anybody else has answered a question and feels that they don't want to participate, fine. Maybe someone who has not weighed in has a new or differing opinion.


Not really relevant, since so far you have not offered us any new ideas or new and differing opinion.  When you do, that will be welcome.  But right now, you're doing nothing but showing your ignorance.  But we're used to it.  This is one of the problems with having a 110 hour entry level.  It leads every n00b to believe that he knows it all after just a couple of weeks.

Tell us what field you were so well experienced and educated before EMS.  I'm sure we have some new ideas and new opinions to offer on that, even though we probably have no education or experience on it from which to form such opinions.


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## EDAC (May 9, 2009)

Ah, thank you o' wise one for taking the time to once again shower us with your never ending knowledge. You must be the only person who came directly from the womb with thousands of hours of experience in your chosen field. Must be nice to not have been bothered with starting at the begininng and working your way up. Unfortunately for us mere mortals we have to start somewhere and in my case EMT-B is the starting place. So yeah I will have to go through the steps to get to where I want to be, but at least I will get where I want to be.

As far as my last profession, thank you for asking, since you referenced it twice in this thread, I will divulge to you. I owned a Real Estate Brokerage for 15 years. I started as an agent in the office and worked my way up to office manager and bought the business my 8th year in the office. I have served as the regional VP, the President of the Board of Directors for a year and the VP of the Board of Directors for 3 years. I was a state (CAR) director for 4 years and an NAR director for 3 years.  I have spoken to congerss and spoken on the state assembly floor. I represented the CAR in Sacramento for 4 years and represented NAR in Washington DC for two years. I was in the business when the RE market was at a low and when it was at it's peak. I was able to retire before the age of 40 and made a life for my family that will allow us to live out the remainder of our lives very comfortably. My children will be taken care of as well as my mother and sister as long as they live. 

I got into EMS not as a hobby as you so contumely put it, but as a way to give back to others. I have lived a very blessed life and never wanted for anything. So I have committed myself to give everything I have to be as sucessful in this field as i have been in the past. If I wanted a hobby i would take up knitting. I take everything I do seriously and will be the best I can be, second best for me is never an option, so I do ask questions and alot of them, but as you so eloquently put it, they are stupid and pointless. Perhaps to you, but not to me. Whatever the requirements are is what they are, and I have no control over that. I can only do what is asked of me and make the best of it. If it means a 110 hour course then so be it, if it means more then that is fine also. If my being here is a bother to you, well frankly I don't care, I cannot worry about what someone I don't know thinks of me or my career desions. The only people who matter in my life are my wife and kids, I care about what they think and they are the only ones whose opinions matter to me. I don't care if you like me, hate me, or would'nt walk across the street to piss on me if I were on fire. If my life and actions only make an impression on my kids to work hard and be the best people they can be then I have done my job and your opinions of me or my presence here are irrelevant.


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## FireMedic65 (May 9, 2009)

With an attitude like that, you won't get very far.  You haven't even started yet and already you are stepping on toes.  Grow up a little, get it through your head that this isn't all about YOU.  Listen to what people say.  Most of everyone here has been doing this for a long time and we are sick of seeing newbs coming into the field thinking they can run stuff.  

With such a successful career as you say you have had, it seems you worked hard for it, and why would a matter of hours bother you in this?


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## daedalus (May 9, 2009)

It seems to me that a Real Estate professional would be a little more....diplomatic. No judged you for having to start out as an EMT. In fact, if you do it right, you can be a role model for your peers. If not, you can be another card carrying member of the 900 or so new EMTs California gets every semester.

Your alienating yourself from some very helpful people on this forum.


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## Shishkabob (May 9, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> It leads every n00b to believe that he knows it all after just a couple of weeks.



You mean I don't?!   

:huh:


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## Chimpie (May 9, 2009)

First let me start by stating that this forum was created so that everyone had a voice, so that everyone could share their opinions.  Everyone is free to agree or disagree on any subject, and you may share your thoughts as long as you follow the Community Rules.

If one reviews the numerous threads on the subject they will find that the majority of the members here feel that 110 hours is not enough.  The original poster created this thread simply stating that people don't realize that there is more than 110 hours being put in because of study time and additional education.

I believe the thread started to go south when EDAC misread AJ's post.  AJ stated that EMS education is a joke and a disgrace.  EDAC, I feel, took this as EMS is a joke and a disgrace.

EDAC, being new and passionate is a wonderful thing.  I applaude you for attempting to take on a new career and going above and beyond with your education.  I hope that if you do continue on in EMS that you do become a paramedic, and a darn good one.

AJ, everyone is free to share their thoughts and opinions, including those new to the industry.  Even you stated, "Tell us what field you were so well experienced and educated before EMS. I'm sure we have some new ideas and new opinions to offer on that, even though we probably have no education or experience on it from which to form such opinions."  Sometimes businesses hire people new to the their respective industry to gain those new ideas and opinions.  We shouldn't be telling someone new that their opinions are worthless.  

I do agree with EDAC on one point though.  Over the past five years I have seen many threads created where members have said that the current education standards are not enough.  I applaude members like daedalus who have taken the time to reach out to their lawmakers to get these standards changed.  But I have seen way too many times members posting how they hate this or hate that but don't do anything to change it.  Saying you hate the way something is done but also saying you don't know how to change it is one thing.  Complaining just to complain is another.

Offer constructive points of view and this thread will stay open.  Anything else will result in this and other threads being closed.


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## VentMedic (May 9, 2009)

EDAC said:


> As far as my last profession, thank you for asking, since you referenced it twice in this thread, I will divulge to you. I owned a Real Estate Brokerage for 15 years. I started as an agent in the office and worked my way up to office manager and bought the business my 8th year in the office. I have served as the regional VP, the President of the Board of Directors for a year and the VP of the Board of Directors for 3 years. I was a state (CAR) director for 4 years and an NAR director for 3 years. I have spoken to congerss and spoken on the state assembly floor. I represented the CAR in Sacramento for 4 years and represented NAR in Washington DC for two years. I was in the business when the RE market was at a low and when it was at it's peak. I was able to retire before the age of 40 and made a life for my family that will allow us to live out the remainder of our lives very comfortably. My children will be taken care of as well as my mother and sister as long as they live.


 
Okay, let's go with something you are familiar with. A few years ago I went through the same real estate class that many become licensed from. For me it was just to gain some knowledge while the others wanted to get into the real estate profession to make their fortune. The class was less than two weeks. I came out of it wondering how in the heck I would ever trust some of those in that class with helping me invest $300k of my money. I can see how a similar comparison can be made to the EMT-B and someone's life. 3 weeks worth of training just doesn't seem to be enough. Needless to say, for my real estate investment I sort after an agent that did put some time and effort into their education and didn't just graduate from one of those real estate agency mills. EMS has similar mills where companies just want warm bodies on their trucks to move patients from point A to point B. 

Just like Real Estate, those in EMS that want to become better prepared for the profession can take college classes and gain degrees. But, just like Real Estate, many do just take the bare minimum to get their certification/license. 

And, in some parts of the country, the real estate industry has failed to police itself and should also carry part of the responsibility for what role they have played in this failed economy. Likewise, EMS also failed to police itself or legislators passed the responsibility off to individual counties such and in California which resulted in extremely poor oversight for the profession as a whole in that state. Surely you are familiar with the SacBee's exposure of the EMSA flaws. Those articles actually instigated a change that has shown a little improvement in CA or at least the EMSA got a nicer website out of it. 

Legislators and other government officials have also be easily swayed to fulfilling their own agendas which has given EMS the turf wars between FDs, County and privates for tax money and the rights to EMS in a region. Again, I can use CA as an example where the FDs have limited how a Paramedic can be utilized outside of the FD. Thus, the MICN (nurse) has become a great strength especially for Flight (HEMS) and Critical Care Transport (CCT). 

As a Real Estate professional and business owner, you may also have had your own agenda and reasons for being politically active and supported propositions that would be of benefit to you.   Your views may also have differed with others who has their own ideas about how the real estate industry should be ran. 

To gain more credibility and consistent education in the schools, the NREMT will be requiring Paramedic schools to be CAAHEP/CoAEMSP accredited. Two states do require at the minimum of an Associates degree to be licensed as a Paramedic. My state, Florida, provides all ALS service to every resident in the state. While I don't agree with the way the state has achieved educating many of these Paramedics, Florida has shown it is possible to provide the higher level of care regardless of the socioeconomic status of some areas. Accreditation at the national level will hopefully force schools to get on track or get out of the industry. 

Read some of the recent posts from the Australian and Canadian forum members. I think you will start to see where the entry level education for both the EMT and Paramedic are lacking in the U.S. You will also discover that each state has been doing its own thing to where there are over 50 different state certifications/licenses recognized in each state, many of which don't cross the state line. Some are actually based on just a 3 hour training class for a "skill". As in other health care professions, there is not a national minimum or even some national organization that can represent EMS that is credible enough to lobby for fair legislation. 

Those of us that have been around for awhile, 30+ years, do have higher education and obtained our degrees in the 1970s or early 1980s when EMS still had a chance to become a solid healthcare profession. Unfortunately, agencies saw an opportunity for their own agendas and that got side tracked. Sometimes it is also those in EMS that have become its worst enemies since they see no need to go further than the 110 hours of training and fail to see how education can benefit the patient. They too have their own agendas and often it isn't about patient care.


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