# Sat. nav. system causes 10-minute ambulance ride to become 90-minute scenic trip



## JJR512 (May 16, 2006)

> SAT NAV CAUSES AMBULANCE BUNGLE
> 
> 90-min Satnav trip to take girl to hospital 10mins 999 RAGE:
> By Jeremy Armstrong
> ...


 
Complete article includes a time breakdown of the trip: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17083544&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=sham-bulance--name_page.html​


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## MMiz (May 16, 2006)

As someone who relies heavily on a GPS system for both personal and EMS navigation, I can understand the blunder.

Normal protocol for me and the partner is:
- Call comes in.
- Partner verifies on map, I enter into GPS and "Route to"
- We verify we're both taking the same route
- Go!

Once while transporting a patient I accidently entered my home address instead of the hospitals.  Ten minutes later I realized the mistake and made the change.  Fortunately it was a non-priority patient.

I once relied on my GPS for a low-priority call and had a 45 minute response time.  If I would have hopped on the freeway (GPS took me down back streets) I could have been there in three.  I had to answer to my supervisor on that one.

My GPS is a great tool on the ambulance, but it's just that, a tool.  I still rely on a map book to verify almost every single call.


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## Guardian (May 22, 2006)

JJR512 said:
			
		

> Complete article includes a time breakdown of the trip: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17083544&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=sham-bulance--name_page.html​





LOL!!!, he had to follow the system, LOL

Cry, Cry, Cry

LOL,

Cry, Cry

We need to weed these providers out...........


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## ffemt8978 (May 22, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> We need to weed these providers out...........



And why do we need to weed these providers out...

What do you use if you're responding to an unfamiliar area or hospital?


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## Raf (May 22, 2006)

That's why I think it is very essential for anybody who is driving an ambulance to at least learn the area they are working in to some extent. All I can say is, if there is any doubt as to what direction to drive down, don't be afraid to ask your partner. Also have a map handy.

If I was using a GPS system I would have it zoomed out so I can see the whole picture and where I need to go. If you are zoomed in really close you can't see where you need to go to, and you could easily be driving in the wrong direction. If you are zoomed out you may also be able to see large interstates or main roads that you could take instead.


Get a job as a pizza delivery boy in the area first lol


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## MMiz (May 22, 2006)

This past weekend I took a trip to NC, and since my new GPS wasn't delivered before the trip, I rented a navigation system from the rental car company.

I ended up taking the "long way" to my hotel, simply because I didn't know how to use the GPS.  It was set as the shortest route, not the fastest.  I was taking neighborhood roads instead of staying on the interstate that would have taken me right there.

The call that I had a long response for, the one I relied on my GPS for, was in a city that we don't service, and that I've never be to.  The call was at 3:00 am, and I responded without input from my partner (something that would have never happened in a priority call).  Instead of jumping on the interstate, I took a road with lots of lights and a 40 MPH speed limit.  It was a mistake.

No one was hurt, as the call was for a general sickness.  We actually ended up calling for a lift-assist on the patient, which didn't come for another hour or so.

The point is, GPS is a good tool, but it's only a tool.


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## ffemt8978 (May 23, 2006)

Raf said:
			
		

> That's why I think it is very essential for anybody who is driving an ambulance to at least learn the area they are working in to some extent. All I can say is, if there is any doubt as to what direction to drive down, don't be afraid to ask your partner. Also have a map handy.
> 
> If I was using a GPS system I would have it zoomed out so I can see the whole picture and where I need to go. If you are zoomed in really close you can't see where you need to go to, and you could easily be driving in the wrong direction. If you are zoomed out you may also be able to see large interstates or main roads that you could take instead.
> 
> ...



I agree, but if you read the article the ambulance respnoded to a call OUTSIDE of their normal area.


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## Guardian (May 23, 2006)

If you have GPS, great.  I have a lot of problems with our gps system.  You should always have a Map and be able to contact dispatch for directions too.  If a 10 min trip turns into a 90 min trip, you're not using these resources properly and probably shouldn't be working as an ems provider.


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## MMiz (May 23, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> If you have GPS, great.  I have a lot of problems with our gps system.  You should always have a Map and be able to contact dispatch for directions too.  If a 10 min trip turns into a 90 min trip, you're not using these resources properly and probably shouldn't be working as an ems provider.


What about the 500 calls the unit responded to within the normal time limits?

A 99.8% on-time response ratio is pretty awesome.


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## Guardian (May 23, 2006)

MMiz said:
			
		

> What about the 500 calls the unit responded to within the normal time limits?
> 
> A 99.8% on-time response ratio is pretty awesome.




always strive for perfection, in my opinion, 10 mins turning into 90 sucks


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## Jon (May 23, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> And why do we need to weed these providers out...
> 
> What do you use if you're responding to an unfamiliar area or hospital?


Use a map - :lol:

Seriously - We have Microsoft Streets and Trips with GPS on all our ambulances. We use it all the time, and I prefer it to using the map, because as I get closer, I can see the rig moving and tell when our turns are coming up.

Our drivers HAVE to know the main roads in our first due, and also know the "back alleys and 1-way streets" in town. We just need a little help knowing which road we turn off on to get into this neighborhood.


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## Jon (May 23, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> If you have GPS, great.  I have a lot of problems with our gps system.  You should always have a Map and be able to contact dispatch for directions too.  If a 10 min trip turns into a 90 min trip, you're not using these resources properly and probably shouldn't be working as an ems provider.


I agree. If you are lost, or it is taking WAYYY too long, you need to stop and call for help. Relying on the GPS and saying "the machine is right" sounds like a medic looking at PEA on the monitor - Nope, they've got a heartbeat - see... You just aren't looking for the pulse in the right place


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## fm_emt (May 23, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Use a map - :lol:
> 
> Seriously - We have Microsoft Streets and Trips with GPS on all our ambulances. We use it all the time, and I prefer it to using the map, because as I get closer, I can see the rig moving and tell when our turns are coming up.




Streets & Trips is a great program. Much better than Google Maps, IMO.

The other day, Google Maps lead me down a road that was marked as "Not a through street" - and had a big effin' gate in the middle. I had to turn around and go back around. (Fortunately, I was driving to an event, not hauling a patient around)


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## coloradoemt (May 24, 2006)

I guess we are old fashioned out here. We get paged with a street address and a map grid #, actually look it up in a map book if we do not know where we are going, and then tell partner L or R turns till we get there. Its amazing how well it works...


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## MMiz (May 24, 2006)

coloradoemt said:
			
		

> I guess we are old fashioned out here. We get paged with a street address and a map grid #, actually look it up in a map book if we do not know where we are going, and then tell partner L or R turns till we get there. Its amazing how well it works...



That's how our system works too.  We have fancy MDTs, but they won't activate the routing feature because of the issue in this thread.  I simply take my own GPS with me to work 

A normal call goes out:

Dispatch: 123 Priority 1 for Detroit.  123, Priority 1 for Detroit.  123 Main St, at the cross of Street A and Stree B for a man down.  Map book pg 500, grid X.

Usually when my partner is looking it up in the book, I'm the one using my GPS.


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## Jon (May 24, 2006)

In our county, each location in CAD has the map page/grid listed. Except, it might still be for the "OLD" mapbooks... I think the county updated it, but I'm not sure...

We have Microsoft Streets and Trips on every new "MDC" in the county, and most of the ambulances have the GPS antenna that comes with the MS Streets and Trips program... the county is looking into hard-mounted GPS antennas for the rigs... but who knows when that will happen.

Most every company buys the new ADC mapbooks when they come out, and we use them.

At the squad, some of us like using the GPS, some don't... part of the precepting program to be a driver or EMT is being able to read maps


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## disassociative (May 25, 2006)

*...*

Our EMS(Ambulance and LifeFlight) uses a system I designed that associates data fed from our Google Earth Enterprise server with my artificial intellegence application to give us: (Possible risks based on analysis of crime statistics, equip to consider, possible diagnosis, shortest route, closest Level 1 Trauma, Helipad LZ's, Communications Frequencies, live traffic reports, etc.)


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## TTLWHKR (May 25, 2006)

This is why they make fold-out maps. Then the only person to blame for wrong directions, is yourself.


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## Jon (May 26, 2006)

disassociative said:
			
		

> Our EMS(Ambulance and LifeFlight) uses a system I designed that associates data fed from our Google Earth Enterprise server with my artificial intellegence application to give us: (Possible risks based on analysis of crime statistics, equip to consider, possible diagnosis, shortest route, closest Level 1 Trauma, Helipad LZ's, Communications Frequencies, live traffic reports, etc.)


Can you steal me that program?

I like, I like!


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## MMiz (May 26, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Can you steal me that program?
> 
> I like, I like!


I'm really impressed too.  I'm guessing it's a rather elaborate setup.

I was going to ask, then I remember someone saying "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"


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## disassociative (May 29, 2006)

*...*

Actually, I designed the program and I offer it through my Biomedical Informatics Company; Digital Spirit Media. The only pre-requisite for the technology is a Google Earth Enterprise Subscription. I am about to partner with a company known as Mapsol to get transponders that report every few milliseconds to the server on the Helicopters exact location via trajectories calculated by 2 orbiting satellites at different locations. These projections will also allow the use of mathematics to calculate the EXACT speed of the helicopter at all times as well as projected time of arrival. I am using Diametric WavePoint Diametry and 802.11g repeaters set in strategic places throughout the county to extend internet capabilities via 3 symmetrical T-3's running at 45 mbps down and up
to a range of 60 miles; so each ambulance can access the server wirelessly via laptop and get live directions; based on satellite images instead of just street maps. The Enterprise server is hosted on an OC-48 feeding a 2 Gbps to ensure maximum speed for all connections. Any EMS interested in implementing this technology into their system can contact me here: 
webmaster@digitalspiritmedia.com

Here is a sample image of a simulated call: 
chance


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