# Oh some of these EMT students that are out there...



## Hockey (Jul 13, 2010)

some of them make me worry a "little" bit with some of the stuff they come up with and their "goal" in this field...

Sometimes, I wonder if they don't do background checks on some of these kids


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## Shishkabob (Jul 13, 2010)

Same can be said with medic students, especially after they pass ACLS or another card course... they begin to think they know stuff.


(Says they baby medic)


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## Aprz (Jul 13, 2010)

One yelled at me that it is necessary to remove a flap off the non rebreather mask always and that I am a dumbass.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jul 13, 2010)

Aprz said:


> One yelled at me that it is necessary to remove a flap off the non rebreather mask always and that I am a dumbass.



Huh? You mean one of the one way valve flaps on the sides? If they weren't supposed to be there, then the companies that make them wouldn't put them there.  I believe in common sense medicine.


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## Shishkabob (Jul 13, 2010)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> Huh? You mean one of the one way valve flaps on the sides? If they weren't supposed to be there, then the companies that make them wouldn't put them there.  I believe in common sense medicine.



*sigh*


Removing a flap essentially turns it from a non-rebreather to a partial re-breathing, lowering the amount of FiO2 able to be delivered.


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## JPINFV (Jul 13, 2010)

Aprz said:


> One yelled at me that it is necessary to remove a flap off the non rebreather mask always and that I am a dumbass.



I've heard that. One of the favorite things I've heard is that the yellow tank (medical air) and the green tank (oxygen) is the same thing and I'm an idiot for making him go back and change it (either he would have changed it or I would have gotten a crew chief).


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## EmtTravis (Jul 13, 2010)

some of the students we got on here are happy their classes are like 8 weeks.  My class was 5 months and wish it would of been longer.


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## JPINFV (Jul 13, 2010)

The problem with comparing calendar length of EMT class is there isn't much difference between an 8 week 120 hour EMT course and a 12 week 120 hour EMT class.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Jul 13, 2010)

I'm just finishing up an 8-week 180 hour emt course. That said, if I have the time, I can go back and take an intermediate class. EMT-B is what it is.


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## medicdan (Jul 13, 2010)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> Huh? You mean one of the one way valve flaps on the sides? If they weren't supposed to be there, then the companies that make them wouldn't put them there.  I believe in common sense medicine.



If you look at suppliers, the masks are actually available with one, two or no flaps, for different configurations... there are certainly situations when you dont want both of them... off the top of my head I can think of using a NRB mask to give a neb, if you expect to run out of o2 in your portable and don't want to suffocate your patient, etc.


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## Aprz (Jul 14, 2010)

emt.dan said:


> If you look at suppliers, the masks are actually available with one, two or no flaps, for different configurations... there are certainly situations when you dont want both of them... off the top of my head I can think of using a NRB mask to give a neb, if you expect to run out of o2 in your portable and don't want to suffocate your patient, etc.


Hyperventilation if they are sucking the mask in and giving themselves a hicky, but now I wonder if keeping the flap on during that situation would be like the paper bag effect, haha. Hmmmm..... Anyhow, I just told him that it was a non rebreather mask for a reason (as Linuss stated), that it was stupid for a company to sell it with two flaps if it's only suppose to have one, and that you only remove the flaps in some situation. This was kinda sad cause it was on the last day of our EMT class too, and he passed. I was so mad to see him walk up, teachers shake his hand, and him holding up his course completion cert up.


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## MrBrown (Jul 14, 2010)

... and yet, I would be more concerned about the fellow who wants to leap from a helicopter carrying a Thomas Pack clad in a bright orange getup with "DOCTOR" written on it.

Seriously, some of the people out there make me a wee bit worried

I sure hope I can make it out of LA County with this crushing chest pain, how much further to Portland Navman?


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## firetender (Jul 14, 2010)

Hockey said:


> some of them make me worry a "little" bit with some of the stuff they come up with and their "goal" in this field...
> 
> Sometimes, I wonder if they don't do background checks on some of these kids



Oddly enough, at least on the East Coast where I learned the trade, the first wave of paramedics in the 1970's, of which I was a part were most often the dregs of society who's best hope for their present was driving hearses for the local funeral homes and occasionally getting to do a "courtesy" transport of a future customer to the hospital or an on-rotation call from the PD for a car wreck.

Most of us were goal-less, until we got the keys to real ambulances!


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## Veneficus (Jul 14, 2010)

*a philosophical look*

In my time I have been fortunate to always be at the transition between old and new, both in my career and in the world in general.

When in high school my guidance councilor remarked how I would be in jail or dead by the time I should be 28.  (she gave me a whole 10 years)

When i started in the fire service, right when EMs became mandatory in the area, the old firemen (whom I looked up to) made comments about how us young guys would never make it.

Even when I became a paramedic some years later, during a push for educated decsion makers instead of skilled laborers in the area, many of the old and very respectable medics would make comments about how we somehow lost our way, forgot our place in life, and would be the death of the noble profession..

I started teaching when I was the the guy all the newbies got paired with to learn the ropes. (the position of FTO only existed in law enforcement) My remark to the instructors who taught me was something along the lines of:
"Don't you fail people anymore, these (explatives) are absolutely worthless!"

A couple of years ago I was under the direction of one of those old school surgeons who beleived he was God because he was a surgeon who spent at least 120 hours a week in his specialty training period. ("Residency" for the US folks) He might not have been God but he was the master of my universe if I wanted to pass. The only way was his way or the wrong way that would kill patients, get me sued, and bring discredit to both the profession of medicine and the discipline of surgery. "A surgeon belongs in theatre, not in the intensive care unit." was a favorite saying of his, especially when discussing nonoperative treatments to "surgical diseases." (which didn't exist in his time of training)

Over time, I noticed the world changes. (When you are always at the point of change you catch on to that rather quickly.) I have been part of the old way and the new way, I even studied the old ways to see how we got here. My philosophy is a mix of both.

In the future we will look at the newer generations and wonder how they will make it. Whether or not they possess the right stuff. How the world will carry on.

They will look at us and wonder how the human race ever managed to survive this long. How we could look ourselves in the mirror with some of the snake charming medicine we practiced. They will laugh at our arrogance and pride, and promise to do things differently. 

Just like we did.

The world changes. The demands, goals, and ways forward are not the same as they were last decade, last year, or last month. You will find less conflict both in your relations and in your mind once you see the forest from the trees.

9/10 of my paramedic students will never work on an ambulance. A vast majority will work in a hospital. Times have changed. The new people are being prepared to be agents of healthcare, not agents of public safety. We call them EMTs and Paramedics still, but they are not the same as the old ones. 

For what they are facing they are probably better educated and more capable than many of us old guys.

It's all about perspective.


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## zmedic (Jul 14, 2010)

On the NRBs issue, people can get messed up because often the flaps are taking off for training, because as has been said they flaps cut off air if the mask isn't hooked up to 02, and real 02 isn't used in most classes. So students get used to pulling the flaps off. It's a good reminder to be really mindful of what your students are learning and to be explicit when thing that happen in class are being done for a training reason rather than because that's how things happen on the street.


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## berkeman (Jul 15, 2010)

Nice post, Veneficus.


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## Smash (Jul 15, 2010)

+1 Veneficus, very eloquent.


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