# Pet BLS



## zephers (Mar 31, 2009)

How many lpm of oxygen would you give a dog or cat(whatever the reason) of any size, if you needed too?


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## fortsmithman (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't know I'm not a veterinarian.


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## 8jimi8 (Mar 31, 2009)

how would you determine that they need O2 anyway?  mucous membranes ? lol


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## EMTCop86 (Mar 31, 2009)

Why exactly would you be giving a pet oxygen?


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## aidan (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't see any effective means by which any of the artificial O2 supply devices we use could work on dogs: the best thing that an EMT can do is provide mouth to snout CPR. Clear the mouth of any obstructions with a finger sweep, just like in people. Close the mouth, extend the head back (so the neck is straight) and breathe into the nose until chest rises adequately. Release grip of the mouth so the dog can exhale.

No pulse = put the dog on it's right side and start compressions. The amount needed to press down will depend on the size of the dog. Generally 3-4 inches for the bigger dogs, less for smaller ones. Try not to break ribs obviously. Compressions:breath ratio will be 10:1. 10 compressions per 1 breath. Getting to the vet fast enough is gonna be the key.

I have no idea on how to help a cat. We were taught CPR for dogs because while responding to scenes where police dogs may be present, they can sometimes get hurt and need help too.


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## medic417 (Mar 31, 2009)

They do sell pet O2 masks.  But we do not carry them nor do we work on pets.  If you need them talk to a vet to get the info required so you can help them rather than harm them.


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## Sasha (Mar 31, 2009)

Not to veer very far off topic but...

Aidan! I haven't seen you around in forever! Where have you been? 

I don't see how a little blow by O2 for the familie's pet would be a bad thing. Makes them believe you care and did everything you could for their doggie or kitty, for some people animals ARE family.


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## akflightmedic (Mar 31, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Not to veer very far off topic but...
> 
> Aidan! I haven't seen you around in forever! Where have you been?
> 
> I don't see how a little blow by O2 for the familie's pet would be a bad thing. Makes them believe you care and did everything you could for their doggie or kitty, for some people animals ARE family.



Exactly Sasha!!  And as discussed in previous threads, we do not do "show codes" so why is it any different with this "family member"?


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## RMSP05 (Mar 31, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I don't see how a little blow by O2 for the familie's pet would be a bad thing. Makes them believe you care and did everything you could for their doggie or kitty, for some people animals ARE family.



I would do anything i could for a dog or a cat.  To most people they are just another member of the family.  It will make you and your service look good, just as you get bad headlines for the stupid things that happen, you can get the good ones.  "Local EMT's try and save family's dog after fire" It would make a huge difference to the family for you trying, no matter what the outcome is.  Just go back to your basics.


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## akflightmedic (Mar 31, 2009)

I wouldn't.

I would say, "Your animal died", and then allow them to begin the grieving process. I might let the crying 5 year old hold her charred kittie's body to finalize it all, but that's about it. My services do not extend beyond that.


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## Sasha (Mar 31, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> Exactly Sasha!!  And as discussed in previous threads, we do not do "show codes" so why is it any different with this "family member"?



If the animal is dead, then by all means. If the animal is NOT dead, a little blow by wouldn't hurt.


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## akflightmedic (Mar 31, 2009)

Except for your piggies...they get the whole enchilada.


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## Sasha (Mar 31, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> Except for your piggies...they get the whole enchilada.



Haha. My piggies would never be caught in a fire. They're cowards. They'd be out the door faster than me!


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## Hockey (Mar 31, 2009)

I know someone that was able to get a NC on a lab


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## medicdan (Mar 31, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with putting a Pedi NRB nearby the mouth and snout of a dog at a fire scene-- it could only help. This is, of course, only after we have suffeciently taken care of any humans on scene.


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## Juxel (Mar 31, 2009)

I actually transported a police dog that was shot once.  We were second truck in on a police involved shooting.  The first truck took the victim that police shot multiple times.  We arrived for an officer shot to find the canine handler with a grazing wound from a bullet.  He asked us to take the dog (at this point they were already on the phone with the University Vet Hospital).

We loaded the dog up, intubated him and had a vet walking me through IV start locations.  Our supervisor only allowed us to transport Code 2, but it was a quick code 2 as PD raced ahead of us to control intersections.

The dog actually lived, but had to retire from police work.  It was quite the experience.


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## trevor1189 (Mar 31, 2009)

Juxel said:


> I actually transported a police dog that was shot once.  We were second truck in on a police involved shooting.  The first truck took the victim that police shot multiple times.  We arrived for an officer shot to find the canine handler with a grazing wound from a bullet.  He asked us to take the dog (at this point they were already on the phone with the University Vet Hospital).
> 
> We loaded the dog up, intubated him and had a vet walking me through IV start locations.  Our supervisor only allowed us to transport Code 2, but it was a quick code 2 as PD raced ahead of us to control intersections.
> 
> The dog actually lived, but had to retire from police work.  It was quite the experience.



Haha that's quite impressive.


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## JPINFV (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's what I don't get from the Doggy CPR Crowd. So you're gonna do CPR and then do what? CPR is terrible at getting ROSC. Shave the poor dog until you can attach an AED or manual defib?


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## JPINFV (Mar 31, 2009)

akflightmedic said:


> Except for your piggies...they become an enchilada.



Fixed that for ya. :beerchug:


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## medicdan (Mar 31, 2009)

The CPR is meant to keep blood perfusing until you can get to a vet who knows how to defib. Where do the paddles go? What charge?


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## aidan (Mar 31, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Here's what I don't get from the Doggy CPR Crowd. So you're gonna do CPR and then do what? CPR is terrible at getting ROSC. Shave the poor dog until you can attach an AED or manual defib?



CPR just artificially perfuses to buy time. Of course I wouldn't attach an AED.. it's simply to buy time.

Either the dog is 100% dead or we try CPR even though we are limited for treating dogs and they have a slight chance of living. The latter seems like the obvious choice, as long as all human patients are taken care of.


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## aidan (Mar 31, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Not to veer very far off topic but...
> 
> Aidan! I haven't seen you around in forever! Where have you been?
> 
> I don't see how a little blow by O2 for the familie's pet would be a bad thing. Makes them believe you care and did everything you could for their doggie or kitty, for some people animals ARE family.



Sasha! I've been busy with school and work . I'm trying to come around more


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## JPINFV (Mar 31, 2009)

aidan said:


> it's simply to buy time.



Which is the point I'm getting at. By the time you'd get to the dog, start CPR, then transport to someone who can attempt to get ROSC, the dog is dead.


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## aidan (Mar 31, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Which is the point I'm getting at. By the time you'd get to the dog, start CPR, then transport to someone who can attempt to get ROSC, the dog is dead.



If the dog is in some crazy heart arrythmia, yeah..good luck. More likely in dogs they get stabbed, kicked, crushed, or pass out from heat.. all of which we can greatly help.

Depends where you're at I guess. We have vet hospitals near our regular hospitals.. but yeah, the prognosis of someone CPR is started on is usually not too good, whether they're humans or dogs.


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## Vonny (Mar 31, 2009)

Just in case anyone is interested, I was told by a lady in Upstate NY who teaches pet first aid.  
To do compressions on a dog you lay him on his right side, then you bring his left front leg over his chest to find where the elbow meets the chest, that is the spot you do compressions on. 

To check cap refill on a dog or assess perfusion you would raise their lip and look at or press on their upper gum.  

She also told  me that dogs respond surprisingly well to cpr.

All I know about cats is that they hate me.


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## marineman (Mar 31, 2009)

posted in another animal thread a while ago but we carry multiple sizes of animal NRB masks on every ambulance in our fleet and are expected to transport any animal (if it's feasible size wise) at the families request. Only once have we ever transported an animal 10-33 due to extreme circumstances at the time but we do treat animals. If there are critical injuries to any human patients obviously the pets go on the back burner but if all humans are less severe and they seem obviously distressed over the animal we will treat the animal, by helping the pet you are really treating the patient by removing some worry about their pet. 

Like I said human life always comes first but I'm going to go on a limb and say that anyone that says never do anything for a pet has never had a pet of their own.


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## nomofica (Mar 31, 2009)

Vonny said:


> Just in case anyone is interested, I was told by a lady in Upstate NY who teaches pet first aid.
> To do compressions on a dog you lay him on his right side, then you bring his left front leg over his chest to find where the elbow meets the chest, that is the spot you do compressions on.
> 
> To check cap refill on a dog or assess perfusion you would raise their lip and look at or press on their upper gum.
> ...



I'm definitely going to have to remember this one...


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## Vonny (Mar 31, 2009)

I forgot to add that the ratio is 30 to 2 just like humans


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## fmrpddisp (Mar 31, 2009)

slightly off topic, but once years ago i had a lady call 911 because her animal stopped breathing. i politely explained that 911 was for human emergencies only and advised her to contact the vet of her choice.


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## daedalus (Mar 31, 2009)

You cannot save a dog with oxygen, just like you cannot save a human with oxygen. You cannot save a dog with CPR alone, just like you cannot save a human with CPR alone.

If a dog is without a pulse, there is nothing to be done. There is no "pet BLS"


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## Sasha (Mar 31, 2009)

> You cannot save a dog with oxygen, just like you cannot save a human with oxygen.



No one is saying you'll save a dog, but it may help the family, especially if they have small children, to cope.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Mar 31, 2009)

Our front office got called by the local vet once to bring over a Zoll moniter to hook up to a dog to confirm for the owner that it was dead. Someone took the moniter to the office, like two blocks away, hooked it up to the dog, and saw that the dog was in V-Tach. So they shaved the hair away, shocked the dog and it ended up surviving.  I dunno why it was in VT, mebby it got into the owners meds or something. The owner said that other than being in VT the dog was young and healthy.


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## Airwaygoddess (Apr 1, 2009)

I tend to agree, My primary focus is the human patient, Fido or Fluffy come second, if it is meant to be they will make it.  As it is with insurence companies to get reinbursment for services is getting smaller and smaller.  Do you really think they are going to reinburse your service for the pet O2 masks...... :wacko:  Sigh


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## reaper (Apr 1, 2009)

Most of the time, Pet o2 masks are donated by an animal rescue group!.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

> I tend to agree, My primary focus is the human patient, Fido or Fluffy come second, if it is meant to be they will make it.



I don't think anyone is saying you should help a dog before a patient. The "meant to be" thought makes all of EMS obsolete, then. If the patient was meant to live, they will live, regardless of EMS intervention?


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## mycrofft (Apr 2, 2009)

*Plus if a dog or cat is conscious they may attack you.*

I can think of one instance where simple BLS can save a life from clinical death and that is a strong electric shock which the victim could "shake off" except they aren't breathing and the metabolic clock is ticking. Saw it in a human once, although he lost an arm to electrical burns/electrolysis (momentary 6000 V AC working on a power line in the wind).


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## MJordan2121 (Apr 2, 2009)

That's out of my Scope of Practice.


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## daedalus (Apr 3, 2009)

reaper said:


> Most of the time, Pet o2 masks are donated by an animal rescue group!.



But the oxygen gas is not.


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## reaper (Apr 3, 2009)

daedalus said:


> But the oxygen gas is not.




Yeah, because that is a big concern in most areas!


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## daedalus (Apr 3, 2009)

reaper said:


> Yeah, because that is a big concern in most areas!


With the current billing difficulties for some California patients, everything is a big deal right now. We do not use oxygen to pretend we care about people or pets. 

I will treat a pet, if they present with injuries that I can control will bandages, etc.


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## reaper (Apr 3, 2009)

daedalus said:


> With the current billing difficulties for some California patients, everything is a big deal right now. We do not use oxygen to pretend we care about people or pets.
> 
> I will treat a pet, if they present with injuries that I can control will bandages, etc.



Most pets put on o2 are due to smoke inhalation, so that is treating them.

Trust me, your service wastes more o2 a day, then what you are useing on that pet!


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## micsaver (Apr 3, 2009)

Now I will introduce you all to my lovely girlfriend - The Veterinarian in training...
Hey all.  Its good to hear that our fellow Emergency Staff in the human world are caring about pets.    I've been an Emergency and Critical Care vet nurse for 6 years now, so pet CPR is kind of a specialty of mine.
Some things to know:
1. Check oral mucous membranes to assess color/CRT; CRT should be less than 2 sec, color should be "bubblegum" pink.  Give 02 if any deviations from this.  Shoving an O2 tube up or against a nostril is fine as long as the pet tolerates it.  Or, cut a small hole in a disposable plastic solo cup, thread O2 line through that, and place over pet's muzzle.
2. Assess pulse at the medial saphenous (femoral) artery.  Auscultate heart beneath the point of a bent elbow.  Dogs can get all the same arrhythmias humans can, just for different reasons.  Dogs have a higher tolerance for VPCs, but still don't do well with V-tach.  We don't tend to defib dogs for V-tach.  Don't defibrillate a dog unless under a vets direct supervision (as in, the vet is on scene or one the phone with you).  You don't shave them, just use a ton of gel, no alcohol.  A flaming pet is no fun for anyone.
3.  Success of in-hospital CPR is about the same as humans.  Big university and some specialty hospitals can do all out life support for dogs and cats.  I've put dogs and cats on ventilators, transfused them, done hemodialysis on them, etc.  I've seen owners spend tens of thousands of dollars on their pets.  I've also seen owners spend nothing.  
4.  Out-of hospital CPR success studies are harder to do since we don't have EMS in the vet field.  I have heard of some stories of owners intubating their dogs with garden hoses and such.  Some of those patients live, some die.  The success rate of not trying is 0%.
5.  I agree with the previous descriptions of chest compressions and overall technique with one alteration.  For dogs under 20 kgs, compress directly over the heart.  Cats can be done this way, too, but you might only need one hand.  For dogs bigger than 20 kgs, compress at the widest point of the chest.  This causes the thoracic cavity to act like a bellows and is more efficient at moving blood around.  The rate of chest compressions is about 60-100 per minute, depending on the size of the dog.  Breaths are about 20 per minute.  Ensure you are getting good expansion.  I'm told dogs and cats are easier to intubate than humans.  Never tubed a human before 
6. If you're interested in pet CPR, take a class.  EMS people like you guys probably have a way better chance of saving a dog than your average joe shmo.  I commend all of you for your work and dedication to the field of life saving.   All our veterinary knowledge of CPR is taken and modified from the work EMS has done over the years.  With that, we can save both human and animal lives.


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## reaper (Apr 5, 2009)

Very good post, with great info!


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## Sasha (Apr 5, 2009)

> 3. Success of in-hospital CPR is about the same as humans. Big university and some specialty hospitals can do all out life support for dogs and cats. I've put dogs and cats on ventilators, transfused them, done hemodialysis on them, etc. I've seen owners spend tens of thousands of dollars on their pets. I've also seen owners spend nothing.



While my piggies are family, that is waaay excessive for an animal. Really? Seriously?


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## reaper (Apr 5, 2009)

I normally treat my dogs myself. I have spent upwards of $6k on one of my horses though.


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## Juxel (Apr 7, 2009)

Here was another police dog that was taken via ambulance to the vet for surgery after being shot.  It doesn't specifically say the dog went via ambulance, but it's still interesting.

Read the story here.


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## Remeber343 (Mar 26, 2012)

I would give a dog... Whatever he presented with. I would give a cat.. The boot.


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## EpiEMS (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm quite concerned about possible risk to the provider here...mightn't an anxious dog or cat be aggressive rather than receptive to care?


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 26, 2012)

The fire department I used to work at carries animal BVMs. 

There was a structure fire where the firefighters pulled out a dog during the interior attack. The dog was in full arrest. After compressions and adapting a human BVM to work for the dog they got a pulse back. About 5-10 mins later the dog was running around on scene. A local reporter was there and got video of it. After seeing the video the public wanted us to have animal BVMs on the engine. I believe there are 3 different sizes (cat size, dog size, and one that looks like bear size lol)


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## DPM (Mar 26, 2012)

I don't know about CPR but I read a story of one of our search dogs in Afghanistan getting treated by the lads on the ground. IIRC the doggy was all smashed up from a hand grenade, but the blokes stopped the bleeding and he was casevac'd and survived.


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## bstone (Mar 27, 2012)

I am pretty sure that our EMT licenses/certifications to not extend to animals. Practicing medicine on them would be tantamount to practicing vetrinary medicine without a license. You could have your EMT license/cert revoked and face possibly criminal charges.


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 27, 2012)

bstone said:


> I am pretty sure that our EMT licenses/certifications to not extend to animals. Practicing medicine on them would be tantamount to practicing vetrinary medicine without a license. You could have your EMT license/cert revoked and face possibly criminal charges.



There is actuall a couple of K9 medic classes that teach to about tubing and how to start IVs along with drugs to give a K9. 

Also if you hit a dog with your truck your not going to get in trouble. If you hit a person with a truck, yeah your probably gonna get in trouble. So I don't know if anyone would take away your cert for helping an animal.


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## bstone (Mar 27, 2012)

firefite said:


> There is actuall a couple of K9 medic classes that teach to about tubing and how to start IVs along with drugs to give a K9.
> 
> Also if you hit a dog with your truck your not going to get in trouble. If you hit a person with a truck, yeah your probably gonna get in trouble. So I don't know if anyone would take away your cert for helping an animal.



As I understand it unless there is a statute that allows for EMTs to do any intervention on an animal then it would be illegal for an EMT to treat an animal.


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 27, 2012)

bstone said:


> As I understand it unless there is a statute that allows for EMTs to do any intervention on an animal then it would be illegal for an EMT to treat an animal.



I have no proof either way but I've seen videos online and on the news of EMTs and medics helping dogs/cats/family pets and to my knowledge they did not get in trouble in the slightest.


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## bstone (Mar 27, 2012)

firefite said:


> I have no proof either way but I've seen videos online and on the news of EMTs and medics helping dogs/cats/family pets and to my knowledge they did not get in trouble in the slightest.



I don't think that any medical board or medical director in their right mind would give an EMT a hard time about trying to save a pet, but we have to keep in mind that it might not be technically legal to do so.


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## Murphy (Apr 2, 2012)

From time spent in the world of veterinary ER:

In answer to the original question (several years late) - flow by oxygen rates at 6-15 lpm work great - vary it by how bad off and how cooperative they are... many pets will actively resist oxygen at 15 lpm, even if they are blue.

Beyond trauma and fire, there are many respiratory conditions dogs and cats can have that stress exacerbates and a little oxygen is the best medicine.  Rescue groups often will provide masks made especially for dogs and cats, but if they're alert and dypsneic the masks often just add to the stress and make them worse, and you're better off with flow-by.

There's a nice description above of veterinary cpr, so I won't go into that except to say that the standarads have changed: compressions about 100-120 bpm for all size animals, breaths at 6-10 / min.

A dog/cat rarely goes into v-fib, it's usually bradycardia straight to asytole, so defibrillation has even less chance of success than with a human.

Absolutely if you are not comfortable with animals and do not know how to read the signs of a fearful or aggressive animal, be very cautious.  And always be cautious with any injured animal.  

The holder usually gets bitten first, so personally I'd rather have no holder than an untrained restrainer.  While giving oxygen and basic first aid would be unlikely to get you in trouble for practicing veterinary medicine, I'd be more worried about a lawsuit from an owner who was bitten.  That can be big money, and then the question comes - will your insurance cover that?

It's not a bad idea to put a gauze muzzle on an injured dog - roll gauze with a bow tie knot slipped over the muzzle can often go on safely and be an effective muzzle that can be quickly released... put a big loop in the gauze, slip it over the muzzle, then tighten and tie a bow.  A towel placed over a cat's head will often give them a sense of security as well as slow down the mouth and front feet, just make sure they can breathe.  

Obviously humans come first.  But if you're able to give first aid to an animal on the scene, you've given a great gift to the pet's family.


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## mycrofft (Apr 3, 2012)

I returned to volunteer CPR instruction at the local ARC, and lo and behold, there were doggy manikins, complete with one for airway.


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## DrParasite (Apr 3, 2012)

The company I teach for runs a course on this topic:

http://www.communitysafetyconsultants.com/pet.htm


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 3, 2012)

My girlfriend is a Critical care/Trauma vet and she called me last night to tell me she had a dog in Vtach, with pulses. After 3 boluses of Lido, the owners decided to euthanize the dog, but it was a pretty interesting case. 


My GF was on the phone with a vet cardiologist for a consult, and was texting me at the same time. They don't have any other antiarrythmics at the clinic and no ability to cardiovert. Kind of a shame, but as she said, "the dog was full of the badness..." After the case we talked a bit about it and she brought the EGK home. Pretty wild stuff.


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## FLdoc2011 (Apr 3, 2012)

n7lxi said:


> My girlfriend is a Critical care/Trauma vet and she called me last night to tell me she had a dog in Vtach, with pulses. After 3 boluses of Lido, the owners decided to euthanize the dog, but it was a pretty interesting case.
> 
> 
> My GF was on the phone with a vet cardiologist for a consult, and was texting me at the same time. They don't have any other antiarrythmics at the clinic and no ability to cardiovert. Kind of a shame, but as she said, "the dog was full of the badness..." After the case we talked a bit about it and she brought the EGK home. Pretty wild stuff.



That is interesting.  Wasn't even aware there were critical care/trauma vets.... makes sense though.   So no defib equipment?  Would've thought they have at least something around for OR cases.


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## NomadicMedic (Apr 3, 2012)

Nope. No defib. I was surprised too. Her clinic is basically the "Animal Trauma Center" for the area. Once pets are stable, they get transferred to another facility. She's worked on several police dogs and does nothing but emergent cases. It's a pretty cool setup.


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## Jon (Apr 4, 2012)

bstone said:


> I am pretty sure that our EMT licenses/certifications to not extend to animals. Practicing medicine on them would be tantamount to practicing vetrinary medicine without a license. You could have your EMT license/cert revoked and face possibly criminal charges.



Unlikely, but possible.

On the flipside, what happens if you stand by and do nothing?

County-wide, there was a donation to EVERY FD and EMS agency of a set of 3-sizes of Animal O2 masks. Either add O2 via a nipple, or connect a BVM.

They work sometimes, other times, animals are beyond help.


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## kindofafireguy (Apr 18, 2012)

I've used a canine mask twice, both on bee swarm incidents. Both on small dogs who were probably too far gone. 

But it does happen.


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## mycrofft (Apr 20, 2012)

Wonder if there is a Veterinary Good Samaritan Law? Seeing as how at least a civil court fight might ensue with a briefing vindictive owner for thousands of dollars.
I've seen the polycarbonate soft drink bottles used as masks, make an adapter for the tubing at the stem end, cut out the bottom and pad with medical tape.


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## xrsm002 (Jun 26, 2012)

Oh so this will be when I call my wife who is a veterinary technician (it's equal to a PA in the human medical field) yes you can check a dogs oxygen sats they can even do BPs, not manual they use monitors, line in surgery suites. I know this because I've seen this equipment. They use a infant BP pulse ox on tongue, they shave their furr to place electrodes which the monitor leads clip too.


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## xrsm002 (Jun 26, 2012)

I will get a picture for y'all


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## CritterNurse (Jun 26, 2012)

xrsm002 said:


> Oh so this will be when I call my wife who is a veterinary technician (it's equal to a PA in the human medical field) yes you can check a dogs oxygen sats they can even do BPs, not manual they use monitors, line in surgery suites. I know this because I've seen this equipment. They use a infant BP pulse ox on tongue, they shave their furr to place electrodes which the monitor leads clip too.



From my experience, it is nearly impossible to keep a pulse-ox on the tongue of an awake animal, even a veterinary pulse-ox monitor. I've only found it worked if the animal was sedated, or otherwise unconscious. For non-sedated animals, I've had better luck placing those on a paw-pad if its a pink paw-pad and holding the paw, or on the ear and holding the head to prevent the animal from shaking it loose.

If you have a technique that can be used with human equipment (not a veterinary pulse ox) please share. I've tried to use an adult pulse-ox on a dog at the scene of a fire with no luck. I didn't think to try an infant one, and haven't been at an incident since that involved a pet.


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## Achilles (Jun 26, 2012)

My dog doesn't have thumbs so he can't turn on the O2. Should I call Dr. Doolittle?


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 26, 2012)

I've had this discussion before… My girlfriend (hopefully soon-to-be wife) is an emergency vet, the equivalent of a level one trauma doc. Much of what we do, most of the medicines we use, many of the treatments that we perform are very similar between pets and humans. And as dogs very seldom have chronic arrhythmias, some oxygen may be all that pooch needs. Like children, most dog or cat cardiac arrests are the results of airway issues. 

If you've got a trauma/emergency vet center in your area it's worth talking to one or two of the docs there. They're very knowledgeable and they may give you some tricks on how to fix some of the more common pet emergencies. At least to get them stable enough to be transported to an emergency clinic. 

Many people have pets that are like members of the family and I'll tell you, if somebody told me my dog was going to die because an EMT didn't believe that he should use oxygen on the dog ... Well, they would have to pull me off of him. :/


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## heatherabel3 (Jun 26, 2012)

In October of last year we lost our house to a kitchen fire. In the midst of grabbing my son and getting the hell out I totally forgot my poor cat. So I am standing in the driveway FREAKING out and my neighbor tells one of the firefighters that the cat is in the house. He goes and tells the guy who is holding the hose in the front door of the house, that guy drops the hose and bolts into the house and comes out about 2 minutes later with my cat. They started an IV and CPR, gave him oxygen and brought him back to life. He is laying in my lap right now as I type this. You guys may think I'm crazy, but to this day nothing I could do or say would show how thankful I am for that firefighter. Let's just say the base fire department stayed stocked in baked goods for weeks after that.


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## rwik123 (Jun 27, 2012)

heatherabel3 said:


> In October of last year we lost our house to a kitchen fire. In the midst of grabbing my son and getting the hell out I totally forgot my poor cat. So I am standing in the driveway FREAKING out and my neighbor tells one of the firefighters that the cat is in the house. He goes and tells the guy who is holding the hose in the front door of the house, that guy drops the hose and bolts into the house and comes out about 2 minutes later with my cat. They started an IV and CPR, gave him oxygen and brought him back to life. He is laying in my lap right now as I type this. You guys may think I'm crazy, but to this day nothing I could do or say would show how thankful I am for that firefighter. Let's just say the base fire department stayed stocked in baked goods for weeks after that.



Very cool


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't know about other areas but here some people have stickers in the front window by the door that lists how many and what type of animals are inside for the FD.

I've never dealt with an animal in distress but I'd have no problem helping one while on duty, provided there aren't  humans with needs that need to be taken care of.


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## Doczilla (Jun 28, 2012)

I've had training for military working dogs, which can include labs, German shepards, hounds, etc. I would agree that trauma-wise, priorities are generally the same for them. 

Just to expand, the military greatly values their dogs; as I'm sure that LE agencies do. You never know what could happen. Outside of trauma, the biggest threat to big dogs like this are heat injuries. Still, same priorities. Getting an EJ is even quite easy if you can't find a saphenous vein on the leg. 

Not that anyone here would try this, but medication doses are drastically different. The dose for anesthesia in a pup for ketamine is upwards of 10mg/kg. I once assumed that you could go weight -based on the pediatric dose, and we only gave just enough to make fido hallucinate. He spent 20 mins watching an imaginary tennis match. 

"I know I'm a fish, but why do I have wheels?" 

Gotta love ketamine.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jun 28, 2012)

Just took a K9 emergency medicine course put on by the Police and Working dog foundation.  While the course was primarily BLS in nature with the handlers in mind, the emergency vet's knew my ALS role and gave a ton of great info including use of IO's and drug dosing for various issues.
For those on the West Coast look em up.  I would imagine most other areas also have similiar


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jun 28, 2012)

*re*

Blech wasnt fast enough to edit the last to add this.

Here is the link to the NorCal K9 site.

http://www.coveryourk9.org/


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