# Cert



## babygirl2882 (Sep 6, 2007)

Does anyone know anything about CERT? Like has anyone taken it or maybe taught it? Because I'm gonna (possibly) take the class and all so I was wondering exactly what its like...


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## Chimpie (Sep 6, 2007)

I've been a CERT instructor for two years now.  I'll tell ya more about it when I get back later today.


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## BossyCow (Sep 6, 2007)

CERT is a method for mobilizing resources within a community in the event of a disaster.  It provides some training to both EMS and non medical personnel to be utilized by your local Emergency Preparedness agency.  There are positive things about it, but it depends completely on how it is administrated in your locality.  

In mine, a bunch of fairly well off republican retirees have taken the course so they can be 'in charge' when the terrorists attack our small, rural area.  They are a pretty self important bunch of undertrained civilians with a larger than average sense of their own importance.  I've had a number of them come up to me and introduce themselves at community events, telling me how the various agencies I work with will be working 'for them' in the case of an emergency.  I have been invited to join our local CERT and so far the folks they have running it have made me pause and reflect if I need to have just one more local organization eating away at my time.  

I have been a CPR, FA, Wilderness FA/EMT, and BLS Instructor for some years.  They have a gal, who has just taken the CPR instructor course from AHA that has never, ever performed CPR on anything other than a dummy. I am supposed to take the class from her prior to being accepted into the local CERT.  It's their rules and they can't start making exceptions.  Everyone has to take the entire training program and this is part of it.  

But, like I say, this is the way its being administered in my area.  I'm sure there are places where the intent is to actually provide a service instead of make the untrained, unexperienced, unprepared feel like they are in control.


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## Chimpie (Sep 6, 2007)

BossyCow said:


> I have been a CPR, FA, Wilderness FA/EMT, and BLS Instructor for some years. They have a gal, who has just taken the CPR instructor course from AHA that has never, ever performed CPR on anything other than a dummy. I am supposed to take the class from her prior to being accepted into the local CERT. It's their rules and they can't start making exceptions. Everyone has to take the entire training program and this is part of it.


 
Why are they forcing you to take a CPR class prior to taking CERT, when CPR is not done at all during a CERT response?


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## BossyCow (Sep 6, 2007)

They have a set of classes they are requiring all CERT members to take, no exceptions.  I told them I could produce my credentials to back up my skills but according to the pinkie ring wearing, polyester shirted, haband comfort slacks, white shoed, toupee clad ex realtor who was taking the applications, I had to take the full series of classes offered through their local group in order to be accepted.  I told him I could teach those classes and promptly round filed my application.


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## Chimpie (Sep 6, 2007)

babygirl2882 said:


> Does anyone know anything about CERT? Like has anyone taken it or maybe taught it? Because I'm gonna (possibly) take the class and all so I was wondering exactly what its like...


 
Quoting my own website here:


> *The Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) Program educates people about disaster preparedness for hazards that may impact their area and trains them in basic disaster response skills, such as fire safety, light search and rescue, team organization, and disaster medical operations. *




CERT allows a community to respond a disaster/emergency that occurs in their neighborhood when local responders may be tied up or unable to respond.  We teach them everything from scene/disaster size up, to setting up an incident command system, to setting up triage and preparing for transport.  Some groups take the initial class and that's it, then there are others who want monthly training sessions.

Like all training, it's what you do with it that's important.


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## babygirl2882 (Sep 6, 2007)

Ya for this class I know they are training for cpr...


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## PArescueEMT (Sep 6, 2007)

I have trained and Drilled with our local CERT team on MCI. Their help was invaluable. the drill involved triaging and transporting 160 patients. we had it all done in 45 mins including having patients at their destination. having the CERT team there gave us extra hands that had some training to be used.

After all was said and done, the county CERT has been added to all MCI dispatches.


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## ffemt8978 (Sep 6, 2007)

I'm curious as to how the feds are going to incorporate CERT with their reported desire to restrict volunteers at emergencies.

Feds to Restrict Volunteers at Disasters



> In an effort to provide better control and coordination, the federal government is launching an ambitious ID program for rescue workers to keep everyday people from swarming to a disaster scene. A prototype of the new first responder identification card is already being issued to fire and police personnel in the Washington, D.C., area.
> Proponents say the system will get professionals on scene quicker and keep untrained volunteers from making tough work more difficult.


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## MedikErik (Sep 7, 2007)

I once had an ID tag that consisted of a stapled piece of paper that said:

MedikErik
Firefighter/EMS-Sergeant
EID #9999
HCFR Station #3.

Worked well enough until I had my replacement tags issued. I usually keep something on me (badge, tag, etc.) to avoid the "are you really qualified" BS that goes on. 

I love how the federal government keeps adding restrictions... kind of like how after Katrina there was donated food rotting in warehouses because it could only get transported in designated fashions in certain ways by certain people. I wonder how much would have gotten down there if volunteers could have just loaded up their pickup trucks and gone...


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## BossyCow (Sep 7, 2007)

It sounded like a great program to me.  That's why I initially looked into joining it.  But, my local area has taken a great idea and implemented it poorly.  One of the members wanted me to join in so we could help make it better, but I have enough brick walls with the imprint of my forehead already embossed.


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## certguy (Sep 9, 2007)

*About CERT*

Like Chimpie , I've been a CERT instructor for about 3 years now . The program was founded by LAFD in 1985 and FEMA and Homeland security like it so much , they're going nationwide with it . The focus is on better preparing folks to take care of themselves , thier families . and thier nieghbors in the event of a disaster when first responders are overwhelmed or can't reach thier neighborhoods . We can get the ball rolling but WE DO NOT RUN THE SHOW . As part of the ICS system , we work with the first responders , assisting them as needed . As Chimpie said , CPR is not a normal part of CERT training  for the obvious reason of losing many others while tying up on a pt. who's dead already . The reply I read where the writer really bashed the volunteers really bothers me . I've seen WAY too much of that over the years . Reality check folks . WE CAN'T BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE especially in a disaster . You may not like those volunteers , but the reality is that they may be the only help thier communities get for some time . It's time to stop looking down your noses at them and realise that they're a valuable resource . If there's a problem , train with them and correct it . Remember , we're just as human as them and in a disaster , you may be one of thier patients . 

                                   CERTGUY


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## BossyCow (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm assuming you are referring to me as the writer bashing the volunteers.  In my area, CERT has become a club.  It is not being used effectively nor is it being implemented correctly.  As I said repeatedly, the program is great which is why I was initially interested.  But, I live in a unique area where the good old boy network is still supported and its more important to be a friend of the guy in charge than it is to have skills.  

My purpose for the post (besides venting a bit of frustration) was to tell people that the locality of the program can have a very important role in the way it is implemented.  I have worked with various non-profit organizations constantly since I graduated from high school over 30 years ago, both in EMS and other genres.  I understand the need for tolerance in the flavor of your volunteers.  

In this particular case, I came to an organization with a skill set.  I was told that those skills didn't matter, that my expertise was not needed and that they were all very important people.  So, who in this case was being elitist and bashing volunteers?  I was the one attempting to volunteer.


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## certguy (Sep 9, 2007)

*Vented frustration*

Hi Bossy Cow , 
    I guess we were both venting a little frustration . I live in central CA where there are a lot of attitudes toward volunteers , mostly bad , but things are starting to change through a lot of hard work . It took a major storm hitting our valley for the fire dept. to realize our CERT team was a valuable asset . Since then , we've been receiving  Response trailers  , funding for equipment , and a KCFD captain has been appointed as a liason officer . We have a great coordinator who puts a lot of hard work into the program . We don't always see eye to eye but he does a great job . Please accept my apologies if I offended you . It wasn't intentional . It sounds like these guys are more interested in status than helping thier community . The thought of turning down an EMS qualified volunteer just doesn't make sense . If you ever want to move to CA , come on down , we could use you . 

                                        CERTGUY


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## BossyCow (Sep 10, 2007)

We also have a trailer that was given to be used as a mobile command unit for MCI's and Disasters.  It sits in the County Yard and is pulled out for safety fairs and public events.  It hands out keychains and emergency preparedness brochures at things like the county fair.  We have attempted to access it for a command vehicle for rescues where multiple agencies are working together and have been told "That isn't a disaster, call us when it's a 'real emergency'"

Never underestimate the ability of small minded power mongers to red tape a program to the point of ineffectiveness!


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## certguy (Sep 12, 2007)

*Trailer that doesn't repond ?*

Hi Bossy Cow ,
   It sounds like these guys are more interested in prestege and looking good than actually helping thier community . Doing safety fairs is ok for community relations but to turn down an agency that requests your trailer because the incident isn't big enough doesn't make sense . It makes me wonder if they'll actually show up for the big one . Is there a chain of command that can address the problem ? The trailers we have are set up for multi - use . They carry lighting , MCI gear , flood control gear , light rescue tools , cribbing , fire extinguishers , etc. they 're also set up to be used as mobile command posts . We have 3 of them positioned around our valley . Our coordinator did an awsome job setting them up . 

                           CERTGUY


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## BossyCow (Sep 13, 2007)

certguy said:


> Hi Bossy Cow ,
> It sounds like these guys are more interested in prestege and looking good than actually helping thier community .
> CERTGUY



Boy, you certainly hit the nail on the head with that one.  The trailer is technically to be used as a command vehicle in the case of an 'MCI' or 'Disaster'.  It contains a kitchen, communications center and bathrooms.  One of the instances where we were refused access to the unit was a multiple agency response for a SAR.  The wilderness area was on the border between two counties.  The east side of our county also has a fire department based technical rescue team which responds to swiftwater rescues.  We also use the Coast Guard for air search and to ferry our searchers up to some of the higher elevations.  We were coordinating 4 different agencies and were actively searching for several days. 

They were right though, it was not an MCI only 2 people missing and it wasn't a 'disaster' so technically, we were not within the parameters of the established use for this trailer.  It's a nice clean pretty new toy and ya know, we probably would have brought it back dusty and maybe with some footprints on the carpet inside.  They would have had to remove all the cartons of givaways before letting us take it and that would have meant gettings someone out of bed, maybe paying overtime, so it would have been a huge hassle.  

We are trying to address this through 'channels' but I see it as a total misdirection of time, effort and resources.  By the time they figure out that it 'might' be okay in some cases for 'some' of us to use 'their' trailer, the trailer will probably be too old to be of value.


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## PArescueEMT (Sep 13, 2007)

*Trailers*

In my county, we have 2 MCI trailers, 4 CBRN/Haz-Mat trailers, 2 MCI busses, and 1 field Communications truck. The MCI trailers are automatically dispatched on a Level 2 MCI or when requested. The Haz trailers... obvious response, Field Com Comes out whenever needed. It's been an amazing tool to have at drills, fairs, and actual Incidents. I have never had any problems accessing any of these, but also i have never really need to request any of them.

Cert also has their own trailer that I haven't seen in service.


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## fm_emt (Sep 20, 2007)

I believe that they require everyone to do the same training so The People In Charge know that all of the CERT folks in their area were trained the same way, and to the same standards.

Honestly, I can see their point. It may seem silly, but it has its reasons.


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## bstone (Sep 21, 2007)

ffemt8978 said:


> I'm curious as to how the feds are going to incorporate CERT with their reported desire to restrict volunteers at emergencies.
> 
> Feds to Restrict Volunteers at Disasters



I can't express how much I am against this.

I spent 3 months in the Gulf Coast after katrina. Got there just days after the storm. The gov't was nowhere and needs everywhere. The only thing the gov't did when they finally showed up was make people get badges. What!? The real help was made by private citizens volunteering their time with the soup kitchen (which was run by just private citizens, not any group) or the medical clinic (ditto).

I remember the gov't had a road block after 8pm. That didn't help one night when one of the volunteer RNs, with lots of meds on ice, couldn't get through despite showing his badge. So, these badges don't really help.

My sense: the gov't has utterly failed the American people when it comes to disaster response. Leave it in the hands of private citizens and small groups and simply they should do their best to assist those groups.


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## BossyCow (Sep 21, 2007)

I agree.  My husband was also on the Katrina relief effort.  He often went to local church groups for the stuff that needed to be done that FEMA couldn't provide.  The local groups got in there and got in done before they could have gotten through the lines to fill out FEMA forms


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## bstone (Sep 21, 2007)

Where was your husband? I was in Waveland, MS for 3 months running a tent-based medical clinic. Slept in the back of my car. Amazing what we can withstand and the odd situations we find ourselves in.


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## bstone (Sep 21, 2007)

My oh my...I just came across this photo was which taken in Waveland just weeks after the storm. I think this sums it up:
http://members.tripod.com/4christe/waitFEMA.JPG

Source: http://members.tripod.com/4christe/WavelandDamage


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## mycrofft (Sep 25, 2008)

*I'm sorry I'm joining this late.*

CERT graduate Dec'04.
CERT's reflect the local culture and whoever starts them. Some are very participative, some are exclusive, some (I suspect many) are duds.
Here's the biggest website by and about them:

http://www.cert-la.com/index.shtml

The concept is that you will have survivors milling about in a disaster, why not try to do something to organize them and keep them out of trouble? The incentive is federal money. The flaw is that unless the local culture supports volunteerism and readiness, or the training offers social/cultural status or professional rewards, it will soon be sparkies, fire groupies, nerds and other disaster bugs.


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## KEVD18 (Sep 25, 2008)

two years later, im guessing the op has either gotten the training or lost interest in it.

nice shovel work though.....


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## mycrofft (Sep 25, 2008)

*Dang yes, I used the search before starting a thread.*

I left a comment for CERTGUY but no response.

I was going to try to start a thread about disaster preparedness (an oxymoron), but this is probably enough I guess. I'm pretty turned off by the whole thing, which boils down to keep your car fueled, some ready cash at hand, know where to go afer you "get out of Dodge" and when to do it.
I torque off the preparedness people just like I do my boss about EMS...Quit trying to make rocket science out of it.


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## Littlebit (Sep 25, 2008)

*True Story*

CERT in my area:
One county has an excellent CERT group.  The county right next door:  a few people decided to start a CERT group- They were going to "businesses" to raise money and tried to tell them they were part of the ambulance and fire squads (although no one had contacted either squad)  
they had big plans:  they would respond to all MVA and "save the patients"  they would be "responding to 911 calls in which it sounded like CPR would be needed"
The couple going around tryiing to collect money are both on disability and had the department of human services involved in their home as they had a 9 year child.
Needless to say CERT was never started in that county.


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## mikie (Sep 25, 2008)

I did the CERT thing years ago (before EMT), was interesting, especially when doing practical scenarios with MCI.  That's pretty much all I have to say about that.


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## TheAfterAffect (Sep 25, 2008)

Sadly in my area, CERT has become nothing more then Human Traffic Cones who think they are Cops.


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## BossyCow (Sep 25, 2008)

bstone said:


> Where was your husband? I was in Waveland, MS for 3 months running a tent-based medical clinic. Slept in the back of my car. Amazing what we can withstand and the odd situations we find ourselves in.



Camp Gautier, Biloxi, he managed a trailer crew and slept in a horse arena and a barracks.


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## mycrofft (Sep 26, 2008)

*Our OP for this thread advises she did NOT go for it.*

Something about the uniform not being cool enough...
(Just kidding, thanks for the IM, babygirl).


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## csly27 (Sep 26, 2008)

I am a member of my local cert team. I love it the training has been fantastic. We just recently had our annual prepardness drill. People from all over california attended. It was two days long and amazing oppertunity. Being a part of cert has opend a lot of doors for me. I highly recommend it.


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## mycrofft (Sep 26, 2008)

*csly, how'd you like the American River?*

http://www.sacramentoregioncitizencorpscouncil.org/photos_08_SRCCC_conference.htm

I attended the first two national readiness conferences in Sacto and passed on this one. My CERT is nearby.


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## NickD (Sep 30, 2008)

Here's a good example of people power. Before I was working in EMS there were those big fires in San Diego some years ago and thousands were evacuated with no where to go. Many came to Jack Murphy Stadium (hate calling it Qualcom) where the Chargers play football. The parking lot was full of cars containing the dispaced and local radio stations were putting out the call for volunteers. So I went over there. 

The local FD, EMS, and PD had their hands full and the hundred or so of us who showed up was all the help that was available. Someone, a young girl named Nicky, stood up and took charge. Several people were sent to direct traffic, some where set up to receive supplies individuals were dropping off, others went from car to car checking on families and the elderly. Soon  trucks full of water, food, and clothing started to arrive spontaneously. McDonalds even pitched in with thousands of Egg McMuffins and Big Macs. It was getting smokey so the call went out over the local Rock station for face masks and thousands of them miraculously appeared out of nowhere and I spent hours passing them out. 

Later in the afternoon of the first day some of the older folks were having trouble with the smoke so I called several of the larger hotels in the area and each without a word said they could take a few hundred people, dogs, cats and all at no charge. And it brought tears to my eyes. It was a good thing too as many of these people had barley fled with their lives let alone their wallets. 

We were there for two days and nights everyone working their tails off before the Red Cross finally opened a shelter in Balboa Park. I went to the shelter on the morning of the third day and it was the first time in 36 hours I saw paperwork, red tape, and volunteers sitting on their asses.

It really is amazing what ordinary people can do if given the chance. 

I got one of those CERT flyers in the mail not long ago. It said, "Heroes Wanted!" And I threw it in the garbage  . . . 

NickD


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## mycrofft (Sep 30, 2008)

*Way to go! Wonder who "Nicky" was and what happened to her ..*

..once the bigboys showed up? 
I'm disillusioned with it right now because ours won't let us "vollies" get above the bottomost rung to help make it run better.


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## NickD (Sep 30, 2008)

Nobody "official" ever showed up at the stadium. The "big boys" were pretty much overwhelmed by fires breaking out everywhere. And Nicky was just a college aged woman doing what needed to be done and everyone else just co-operated. 

Since then I've come to realize we don't take advantage of all the resources available to us in times of crisis. Someone upboard mentioned during Katrina regular people in pick-up trucks could have began bringing in supplies faster than the "agencies" did. And sure, not being trained, some of these folks will get themselves into trouble, but overall the result would be positive. On the other hand if there is a failure of leadership, as in Katrina, the official agencies will just stand around waiting for someone to tell them what to do. Regular people don't do that.  

Americans have that built in capacity to do good things (your neighbor's barn is on fire) and it's a crime when officials don't take advantage of that, and worse when they actually prevent it. Of course I'm only talking about very large and rare events but officials need to begin figuring a way to incorporate the "people" into their overall plans because if something like the big earthquake hits Southern California it's going to be a real mess. 

We'll always for sure need trained and and organized hands in these cases, but sometimes what you need most is just plain hands . . .

NickD


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## reaper (Sep 30, 2008)

Then why did you throw out the CERT flier? That is what CERT is, trained citizen, that help out in big emergencies!

When you have a major disaster, if they let every Tom,**** and Harry do what they wanted, there would be chaos. Yes, you will help some, but others will slip through the cracks and suffer. Plus we would have twice the Pt's, from all the people getting hurt.

Yes, some times the Red Cross is a joke. But, the majority of the time, they are great. If you truly want to help, join the Red Cross or a CERT team.

I am glad that you were there to help during the fires, you did a good job. Now join a team and get the training you need, to help more people.


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