# EMTs with long hair



## Phaedras (Aug 4, 2007)

I would like to begin my EMT-B training in Boston this upcoming semester. I plan on staying in town for a while but I'm considering moving to LA later on.

I wanted to know if there are people here from either of those towns and if they have guys with ponytails and or beards working as EMTs.

I keep it all trimmed and I don't have any piercings or tattoos. I'm no slacker and I'm in shape. How hard is it going to be to find a job?


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## Chimpie (Aug 4, 2007)

Many depts/agencies require hair to be cut to collar length for professionalism, and beards removed for health reasons.

Plus if you have to wear an SCBA you'll have problems with that beard.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 4, 2007)

As stated, many require that it be "off the shoulders" as well, many interpert the OSHA/NIOSH rules of having a beard produces the inability of wearing any type of masks such as particulate (surgical type). 

R/r 911


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## Phaedras (Aug 4, 2007)

Has anyone heard of exceptions? Could the west coast possibly be more lenient?


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 4, 2007)

Most medical and usually even "professional" areas are concern with image, as well as hair is usually considered to harbor bacteria, sweat, and have the ability to be get caught by equipment, violent patients. 

Not only is hair pointed out, fake nails, beards, ear rings, etc. It is not the appearance as much as being a health issue. 

R/r 911


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## Airwaygoddess (Aug 4, 2007)

As Chimpie and Rid have said, these are very good reasons why there are dress codes in place.  It is to protect you and your patients.  I have know many firefighters and EMS folks that had said "you would never know I used to have long hair!"  If you really want to pursue career towards fire or EMS, what is a little hair?  P.S. welcome to the tribe!


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## MMiz (Aug 4, 2007)

I'm sure that there are EMTs with long hair, and I'm sure that there are services that allow it, but I know that my private service require wouldn't allow it.

It wouldn't hurt to call around to different EMS programs and services in your area to see what they say.


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## Emtgirl21 (Aug 4, 2007)

I think all the girls i work with but one has long hair. Our policy is that it has to be kept out of our eyes and pulled back but they really never say anything about it to us. None of the guys had beards for say but alot of gotees (sp).


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## firetender (Aug 4, 2007)

Good luck finding any documentation that really shows hair, or beards, or personal preferences in appearance affect a person's ability to perform a job such as this. People are effectively doing it all the time, in all sorts of "appearances" but within the accepted norms of their particular society at the time.

Women work with their hair long. They adjust it so it works. Why not men? How many bearded Sikh Doctors are there? (Yup, that infection rate from beards is really spreading over there in India. Let's not even think about Rabbis doing circumcisions!)

It's all about perception and standardization, uniformity, regimentation and control. It's not about performance. 

When a system or company mandates a certain appearance, or restrictions on appearance, or even "personal preferences" it is about an image that they wish to maintain and project. It strips the individual of the right to find out what works for him or her in favor of conformity. 

EMS is a hybrid Cop/Military mode, where standardization is said to provide a form of security for the people it serves. 

So, if you want to find a real reason for such regulation, you'll find it in a percieved sense of what the mainstream will accept without question. That's not a bad thing, but let's call it like it is.


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## Jon (Aug 4, 2007)

My volunteer and paid companies both have female AND male EMT's with longer hair. It isn't an issue, as long as it isn't an obstruction. If you wore your hair over your face... it would be a problem... but as long as it isn't too long (down the back and long enough to get caught in machinery) I can't see a ponytail being a problem with every service.

You may have a service that has a policy against it... and then you have to decide if you want to work for that service.


As for facial hair... I have a moustache and goatee... I keep it short, and it stops at the bottom of my chin... I can still get a mask seal with an SCBA, so I'm comfortable with it. My full-time job doesn't care (non-EMS), but the part time job has a policy against facial hair... If they ask me to shave, I probably will... but I only work a few shifts a month, so no one really cares.  I know that when I finially get around to going to fire school, I'll have to shave it off.


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## chocchipsmom (Aug 4, 2007)

Our service does not have a policy regarding hair length, but you must be neat.  As for facial hair, you must be able to be fit tested for the respirators.  Several of our guys have mustaches and goatees, but they are kept neatly trimmed.


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## Aileana (Aug 5, 2007)

just keep your hair neat, and out of your face, and the facial hair neat and under control, and they shouldnt have any complaints.


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## babygirl2882 (Aug 5, 2007)

I don't remember where I read this but I heard a story of a guy who had long hair and wasn't yet voted into his company yet and was told by a friend that he wasn't going to be because he had long hair, so he got some company hats and never took them off, got voted in and worked hard, never once did the company have a problem with his work or anything, then a couple years down the line he took off his hat and SURPRISE his hair was still long, nobody ever knew before that. I don't remember what happened if he stayed or not but it goes to show has prejudice people can be over something so small.

Maybe it's just because my whole life growing up in Cali my dad had long hair, and he'd had it his whole life, then when we moved to Oregon to a pretty conservative town it was taken off because it offended people, I don't think changing for others is something that should be done (now there are times when it is) and its hard still because I don't think its fair that he should have, but liefs not fair right?

Personally I have sholder length hair and its almost always in a ponytail, easier to manage and more of a shock to people when it comes down


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## KEVD18 (Aug 5, 2007)

im not a huge fan of long hair on an ambulance. just another weapon for a combative pt to use against you.

if you plan to work in the boston area, you will most likely be working for a private service. having worked for more than one private in the boston area, the only realy requirements are an emt ticket, drivers license and a pulse. keep your hair how you please, show up somewhat near on time and your golden.

btw, where do you plan on attending school?


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## SafetyPro2 (Aug 5, 2007)

Full beards are pretty much never gonna be allowed out here in California due to the Cal/OSHA respiratory protection standards. Simple fact is, if you're an EMT, you have to be able to wear at least an N95 respirator, and having any facial hair in the sealing surface of the respirator precludes that. 

As for hair, I've not particularly noticed long hair on any of the male EMTs or medics I've seen/worked with in either SoCal or NorCal, but not sure if that's company policy or personal preference. Many of the private ambulance guys (at least in SoCal) are trying to get hired as firefighters and tend to have short hair.


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## BossyCow (Aug 6, 2007)

Long hair has never been an issue with any agency I've been affiliated with as long as it doesn't become a safety issue. I think a lot of it has to do with your attitude going in.  Is the focus of the interview on 'you better not make an issue of my hair' or is it on your skills and professionalism.  

Beards are not generally worn because of the previously mentioned safety issues.  We do have some members from British Columbia, Canada who may be able to comment on how the Sikh population up there deals with it. My guess is they use a different style of mask.  I know if the agency is fire related at all, SCBA's will not work with a full beard and you have to be able to pass fit testing on both those and HEPA masks.  

My own hair is long and I keep it tied back, mostly because I can't stand it in my face on a call.  

Regarding the 'conformity vs individuality' issues raised by firetender, my personal opinion is how I look has very little to do with who I am.  If an agency, especially a privately owned one, wants to present a certain image, regardless of what motivates that desire, I have choices.  I decide which is a higher priority for me, working for that agency or a personal grooming preference.  Maybe its because my personality is such that my individuality has never been questioned regardless of my appearance!


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## Phaedras (Aug 7, 2007)

I wanted to thank everybody for their responses; you've all been a great help.

I had only read the first 2 responses before I went on a short trip and was somewhat discouraged...funny thing is that on my trip I decided that if taking it all off was a sacrifice I would have to make, so be it.

Now I come back and it seems there might actually be hope after all. 

Thanks!


P.S: I'll be enrolling in Northeastern University's EMT-B program.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 7, 2007)

babygirl2882 said:


> I don't remember where I read this but I heard a story of a guy who had long hair and wasn't yet voted into his company yet and was told by a friend that he wasn't going to be because he had long hair, so he got some company hats and never took them off, got voted in and worked hard, never once did the company have a problem with his work or anything, then a couple years down the line he took off his hat and SURPRISE his hair was still long, nobody ever knew before that. I don't remember what happened if he stayed or not but it goes to show has prejudice people can be over something so small.



That is very similar to a old rock song from the 60's, called signs.._ 

Signs" 

 And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you woah! 
_

I personally would not recommend wearing a hat during an interview. 

R/r 911


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## emtkelley (Aug 7, 2007)

That song is going to be playing in my head now, thanks Rid


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## babygirl2882 (Aug 7, 2007)

ya whos it by? i like it


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## VentMedic (Aug 7, 2007)

Five Man Electrical Band  from Ottawa
Signs 1971   

http://www.fivemanelectricalband.ca/


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## rgnoon (Aug 7, 2007)

"Signs" By the "Five Man Electrical Band", out of Canada. First released in 1970, became a hit upon re-release in '71. Great Song...check it out.

EDIT: Darnit, Sorry about the Dupe....vent beat me to it.


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## VentMedic (Aug 7, 2007)

rgnoon said:


> EDIT: Darnit, Sorry about the Dupe....vent beat me to it.



Yeah man that was my generation.B)


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## rgnoon (Aug 7, 2007)

and it sure beats the hell out of the music from mine...which is why i've chosen to adopt yours...hope you don't mind.


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## jordanfstop (Aug 14, 2007)

i'm in NY (rockland county) and we have a (male) medic here that has a ponytail to mid back. . .


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## ResTech (Aug 14, 2007)

Tesla does a much better version of Signs.... I think personally society puts to much emphasis on outward appearance specifically the way someone decides to wear their hair. I am all for professionalism but long as its clean and neat I say its all good. Diversity in the workplace!

I have a tattoo on the inside of my forearm, eyebrow pierced, and ears x5... my employer never said ne thing nor did ne of my patients.... except to compliment the tat!


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 14, 2007)

Consider yourself lucky. My employer would had sent you home.. come back when you want to appear professional. We and as well as most health care have written dress codes that forbid wearing of facial piercings, tongue, publicly seen tattoo's and hair past the collar. 

As wrong as it may seem, people judge by appearances first. the same reason LEO, professional status, and media cannot just wear what they want. Yes, I have had elderly request other health care providers because of appearances.. as well as even younger patients. 

Again, the choice is yours. I do not disagree with that. Just don't go whining or complaining if the job market is not opening up to you. That is the consequences of your decisions. 

R/r 911


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## firecoins (Aug 15, 2007)

jordanfstop said:


> i'm in NY (rockland county) and we have a (male) medic here that has a ponytail to mid back. . .



I am in Nyack


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## jordanfstop (Aug 15, 2007)

firecoins said:


> I am in Nyack



I'm up at Spring Hill. We just got a new member yesterday from Nyack, actually.


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## AZFF/EMT (Aug 15, 2007)

here in Phoenix they have a few indian guys who have long hair and dont have to cut it. and a guy down towmon engine 3 I believe with a big huge mustache and hair down to his midback. The native guys fought to keep the long hair for religious reasons I believe not sureabout the white guy. Oh ya and A few black dudes with longer cornrow/dreads. At my department we hve no long hair except for the women(woman), some guys keep some chin hair right to the jawbone, if they can keep a mask seal its ok I guess ut I think it looks unprofessional and is a health risk. I also work at a private ambo company part time and long hair and beards is a no-no as well.


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## AZFF/EMT (Aug 15, 2007)

here in Phoenix they have a few indian guys who have long hair and dont have to cut it. and a guy down towmon engine 3 I believe with a big huge mustache and hair down to his midback. The native guys fought to keep the long hair for religious reasons I believe not sureabout the white guy. Oh ya and A few black dudes with longer cornrow/dreads. At my department we hve no long hair except for the women(woman), some guys keep some chin hair right to the jawbone, if they can keep a mask seal its ok I guess ut I think it looks unprofessional and is a health risk. I also work at a private ambo company part time and long hair and beards is a no-no as well.


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## fm_emt (Aug 15, 2007)

*me!*

I'm a long haired white guy. It's never been a problem for me. And like others have said, women (at least here) are *never* asked to alter their hair in any way.

It hasn't been a problem for me, and I've seen the occasional AMR employee (note: i don't work for AMR) with longer hair than mine. I have no facial hair and keep my head hair tied back in a ponytail when I'm at work anyway.

I think that in many places people have realized that it's kind of a silly thing to nitpick about. Tattoos & piercings everywhere look more unprofessional to me. Hair is just hair.


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## AZFF/EMT (Aug 15, 2007)

I agree for a private ambo service the long hair shouldnt be an issue. It is not a paramilitary org., like the fire of LE service. I think the facial hair is a healh issue due to mask, scba seal issues. Plus if women are allowed to have long hair and everyone is supposed to be treaeted as equals then men should be allowed as well givien they keep it within a certain set of reg's. for example puled back neatly into a pony tail, ect. 

For the fire service, I disagree and do not like anyone having long hair, religious reasons or not.  Thats just like someone who is musim saying they sould be allowed to have the beard. Just my opinion.


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## Airwaygoddess (Aug 15, 2007)

I think that hair needs to be pulled back, out of the face and not be used as a patient pull toy........As far as the girls go, that hair needs to be up and out of the way, this is not a fashion show!


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## medicdan (Aug 17, 2007)

Quick note to bring the conversation back a bit:



firetender said:


> Let's not even think about Rabbis doing circumcisions!



About two years ago, there had been a whole scandal in NY with Rabbis and moyhels (practitioners) spreading herpes to infants during ritual circumcision. In fact, I recall they discovered that the *beards and lips* of the rabbis were infected!! 


			
				NYTimes said:
			
		

> A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes -- one of them fatal -- in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice.
> 
> The city's intervention has angered many Orthodox leaders, and the issue has left the city struggling to balance its mandate to protect public health with the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom.
> 
> ...


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## firetender (Aug 17, 2007)

*Give Me A Break!*

That was SOOO outrageous, I had to take the time to really check it out myself and it was a really freaky thing to read, but _*you're not kidding! *_

Never in a million years did I suspect I was wrong about circumcision NOT being a dangerous procedure if offered by a Rabbi with long hair and/or beard, but Boy! This blew the lid offa that one!

HOWEVER...

That's what i loved about being a medic, Fiction faints beside what we experience!

So, listen up, Medics...just because you have short hair and no beards don't think you can, um...Uh, do...(no!) offer that procedure in the field. 

It's not Kosher.


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## ResTech (Aug 21, 2007)

Here's my thought on perception of others. As a society over many decades, we have garnered this view or impression of what is an "acceptable" norm for dress and style and what elements of physical appearance may or may not signify good character traits. For example, a person with a polo shirt tucked in with dress pants and short trimmed hair must mean... "wow... this person must be a good family guy, works hard, honest, etc, etc". In contrast, a person with tattoos, piercings, long hair, dressed in all black, baggy clothes, etc, etc. must be a drug addict, immoral, slut/pimp, not very smart, etc, etc... Am I right? And this is the furtherest from the truth! and really disturbs me. 

As a society, we have built this ideal of what elements of physical appearance parallels with good morals and character AND AS A SOCIETY WE CAN CHANGE THIS IDEAL AND PERCEPTION which has already started to happen. They're was a good article in EMS Magazine on recruitment (vol and career) that stated with young ppl entering the ranks of EMS, diversity and self expression needs to be accepted. Ppl graduating high school are of a new generation who accepts tattoos and piercings as a norm and these ppl are gonna be coming to a station near you! If you don't accept these ppl for who they are.... with their piercings and tattoos... you are gonna be pushing away a lot of great ppl.  

RidRyder... your company wouldn't have a chance to send me home cause I wouldn't work for a company as superficial and ignorant as that. A company that isn't ne more diversified then that doesn't deserve my talents.


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## mfrjason (Aug 29, 2007)

That is correct what chimpie said. A majority of departments require that you keep your hair at shoulder length, unless your a female with long hair which then you have to have it up in a pony tail. As for beards and mustaches, they have to be trimmed as well.


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## BossyCow (Aug 29, 2007)

I look at it as a kind of uniform.  How we dress and our physical appearance is *generally* chosen because of a desire to fit in or belong to a particular group.  The good news is that most of it is temporary.  

I can wear my hair tied back, my polo shirt tucked in, my sensible shoes on calls.  I can also wear my low heels, a modest amount of makeup, and a more professional wardrobe to my work, with my hair 'done'.  

On the weekends, I can let my hair frizz out, wear more extreme make-up or none at all.  I can put on 4 inch heels and a skirt up to my arse, or wear my husband's work shirt over a pair or jeans with holes in the knees.  

All of these are choices I make based on how I want to appear and what particular social setting I'm fitting into.  This is a choice.  I choose to fit into those settings for reasons of my own.  My future in my job is based on a professional appearance and needs to be in keeping with the expectations of the people who pay my salary.  I choose to accept that expectation in return for a paycheck (quite a nice one actually)

I believe, that when expressing our 'individuality' becomes more important than the potential reward for being a part of a social group, than we need to understand that there may be repercussions.  The big choice is, which is more important for us?  But if you choose your desire to express your individuality as more important than societal expectations, than in my opinion, you lose your right to whine about not getting treated like 'everyone else'.  You have decided that you aren't like 'everyone else'  deal with it.


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## nirvanakat (Aug 29, 2007)

As a female, as long as I have my hair back in a ponytail or a bun, they never question it. The same goes for the males in our unit (volunteer ambulance).


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## MedikErik (Aug 30, 2007)

Once you have a psych patient yank you down by your hair, you'll learn lol. Ditto for taking out piercings before riding the box.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 30, 2007)

Just remember EMS is a business. We are there for them, not vice versa. Customer service is the new emphasis on EMS administration and rightfully should be. If the general public wants one to be more professional appearance and demands better work ethics, so be it. They (customer) will make the general emphasis on what is acceptable and not. 

If I want to really perform care and they wanted me to wear pink, then I would have a choice of either adapting or attempting to find somewhere else. I need to remember, I work for the company, and represent them, and any actions, representation, not only represent myself but the company as well. 

R/r 911


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