# "You work for me!" How to respond?"



## 46Young (Oct 24, 2011)

How do you respond to some tool that tells you things like:

"You work for me!"

"I pay your salary!"

"My taxes pay for you, so do as I tell you!"


I now work in an affluent area, so anyone that I come across can be well connected, can be high up the food chain in the political realm, FBI, CIA, the judicual system, pro sports, etc. Most people we come across are appreciative of our services, and are really cool with us. It's just the pushy, insecure feminine hygeine product every so often that throws that out.

Explaining that while that's technically true, but it's only by proxy, we're subject to our department's rules and regs seems a little wishy washy.


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## JPINFV (Oct 24, 2011)

Depends... choose your battles wisely and bill for services. Just because taxes supports you doesn't mean you can't have a fee for service.


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## abckidsmom (Oct 24, 2011)

Can you give an example of the unreasonable demands they're making?  I deal with this sometimes, and while our county isn't quite as well connected, everybody knows somebody and is "important."


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## Underoath87 (Oct 24, 2011)

Well, what are they doing?  
Are they asking you to stop on the way to the ER to buy them a pack of cigarettes or something else absurd?


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## STXmedic (Oct 24, 2011)

46Young said:


> How do you respond to some tool that tells you things like:
> 
> "You work for me!"
> -Suck it.
> ...



^^^


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## dstevens58 (Oct 24, 2011)

As much as I would want to say, "here's twenty-five cents for your portion," I just let comments such as that roll off my back and attend to the patient just like any one else.


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## 46Young (Oct 24, 2011)

A few things such as:

Unreasonable transport decisions, which could be something far away (that passes 5 or 6 hospitals), or an inappropriate destination for specialty care reasons (trauma center, STEMI, etc).

Demands to ride in the back with the pt when I don't want you there, such as overbearing family with medical education that question and overanalyze my every move.

Overbearing family members with medical education that try and direct my pt care. The pharmacists and EMT Basics are the most annoying. Curiously, nurses and doctors onscene don't give us much lip.

Taking our shoes off inside the house. I do the same thing in my home, but if we take off our steel toe foot wear, and something goes down, we're on the hook since we weren't properly wearing our issued protective equipment.

Speaking over the pt and making their decisions for them, when the pt has demonstrated sound decisional capacity.

On the fire side, we get calls for a water leak in the basement, to patch someone's roof, or to siphon out water from a flooded basement, to name a few things. If the people are nice, we don't mind, but when they get pushy and tell us that they pay our salary, the situation can deteriorate quickly depending on who the officer is.

One guy called the station and demanded (not asked, demanded) that we send our apparatus to his home for his kid's birthday party. We politely informed him that the party was on the same day, at the same time as our department's annual open house function, and that our presence was required at the fire station. He wouldn't take no for an answer, so we sent the ambulance for an hour or so. He basically berated the crew for not bringing the engine and other apparatus. As he slurred his words due to his level of ETOH intox, as he was walking around with his open beer can (yes, at his kid's birthday party). funny thing was, the crew told everyone at the party about the activities we had at the firehouse, and many of them showed up at the station later on and had a good time.


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## Akulahawk (Oct 24, 2011)

46Young said:


> How do you respond to some tool that tells you things like:
> 
> "You work for me!"
> 
> ...


I just usually ask them if they write a check out in my name every month...


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## JPINFV (Oct 24, 2011)

46Young said:


> A few things such as:
> 
> Unreasonable transport decisions, which could be something far away (that passes 5 or 6 hospitals), or an inappropriate destination for specialty care reasons (trauma center, STEMI, etc).



Miles and time is more important than hospitals passed. There are hospitals near me that are literally across the street from each other.

If the patient wants to delay definitive care by refusing a specialty care center, then that's their right. I don't see a reason to get worked up about it provided informed consent is provided. 


> Demands to ride in the back with the pt when I don't want you there, such as overbearing family with medical education that question and overanalyze my every move.
> 
> Overbearing family members with medical education that try and direct my pt care. The pharmacists and EMT Basics are the most annoying. Curiously, nurses and doctors onscene don't give us much lip.



"Sorry, I need room in the back to work that precludes passengers back there."

If the patient lacks capacity and there isn't a person with a POA or conservatorship or something similar, "Privacy rules."


> Taking our shoes off inside the house. I do the same thing in my home, but if we take off our steel toe foot wear, and something goes down, we're on the hook since we weren't properly wearing our issued protective equipment.



"Safety concerns"



> Speaking over the pt and making their decisions for them, when the pt has demonstrated sound decisional capacity.



Worse comes to worse, move the patient to the ambulance and then honor request.

This issue is more than slightly ironic considering the first issue. 



> On the fire side, we get calls for a water leak in the basement, to patch someone's roof, or to siphon out water from a flooded basement, to name a few things. If the people are nice, we don't mind, but when they get pushy and tell us that they pay our salary, the situation can deteriorate quickly depending on who the officer is.



"Sorry, this isn't an emergency, call a _____."

Of course, don't be like the haz-mat crew in California who was caught attending a Pop Warner football game a few cities away from their station (technically specialty resources are considered a county wide resource both because not all cities need specialty units and it was a county fire authority unit). 



> One guy called the station and demanded (not asked, demanded) that we send our apparatus to his home for his kid's birthday party. We politely informed him that the party was on the same day, at the same time as our department's annual open house function, and that our presence was required at the fire station. He wouldn't take no for an answer, so we sent the ambulance for an hour or so. He basically berated the crew for not bringing the engine and other apparatus. As he slurred his words due to his level of ETOH intox, as he was walking around with his open beer can (yes, at his kid's birthday party). funny thing was, the crew told everyone at the party about the activities we had at the firehouse, and many of them showed up at the station later on and had a good time.



If I had the option, I wouldn't have even sent the ambulance.


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## socalmedic (Oct 24, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Of course, don't be like the haz-mat crew in California who was caught attending a Pop Warner football game a few cities away from their station (technically specialty resources are considered a county wide resource both because not all cities need specialty units and it was a county fire authority unit).



I thought we beat this up already...


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## JPINFV (Oct 24, 2011)

socalmedic said:


> I thought we beat this up already...



Can you link the thread? I learned about it today, and this incident happened October 1st.


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## LucidResq (Oct 24, 2011)

My favorite thing is these are the same people who whine about how high their taxes are, and are always calling for the most trivial of problems.  Unrelated to EMS, the last time I fielded one of these statements was when taking a call complaining about some kid skateboarding down a residential sidewalk... which is totally legal... and honestly I'm just glad he's getting exercise and not breaking into someone's house. I had even already offered to send officers out there. I guess what we were supposed to do was magically teleport the SWAT team in there to take that kid to jail within seconds??? 

"Well sir, if people like you would actually call for emergencies or crimes only, we could lose half or more of the staff up here and you wouldn't have to pay my salary. Also, being that I live, play and pay taxes here... I probably pay as much or more for my salary than you do." 

Don't say that. It would feel too good, and we all know what that means.


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## Shishkabob (Oct 24, 2011)

"I pay taxes just like you, so this call is on me."




And if they're just pissing you off:
"You called for my help utilizing my expertise and education, I didn't just show up, therefor how about going with the person that you asked help from?"


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## medic417 (Oct 24, 2011)

Well since your here lets talk about my long over due pay raise.


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## mycrofft (Oct 24, 2011)

*Clam up, do your job, and have the AMA ready to go.*

It is up to your boss to keep that sort of yellow rain off you. If they won't, then move, they'll sell you down river sooner or later.


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## katgrl2003 (Oct 25, 2011)

medic417 said:


> Well since your here lets talk about my long over due pay raise.



:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pay raise? What's that?


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## Aprz (Oct 25, 2011)

> Taking our shoes off inside the house. I do the same thing in my home, but if we take off our steel toe foot wear, and something goes down, we're on the hook since we weren't properly wearing our issued protective equipment.


Ask 'em for a plastic bag, like a grocery bag, insert your foot into the bag, and tie the handles of the bag together around your ankle/lower tib-fib. I used to do that at work when I mopped. 

Sorry, can't help ya with anything else. :[


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## dixie_flatline (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm a volunteer, b**ch.

edit: Sorry, that was a little harsh.  People try to pull this type of crap with anyone and everyone they can - police, fire, city workers.  The correct response, from my perspective, is to inform them that you work for the good of the public at large, and will do your best to accommodate them, but it cannot come at the expense of all the other tax-paying citizens who might need your services.

I tried to pull this at an Apple store. "But I've owned 3 shares of Apple stock for years!  I _demand_ an iPhone 5!  I know you have them somewhere...".  Didn't work then, either.


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## attnondeck (Oct 26, 2011)

my favorite line to use is "take it out of my paycheck"


(im a volunteer :rofl::rofl::rofl


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## Handsome Robb (Oct 26, 2011)

I used to tell people that if they thought they could do it better they should show me so I could apply what I learned in the future. If not, step back or quiet down and let me do my job. This was when I worked for the state of NV in the summer and the local government of my town in the winter in pseudo-EMS jobs.

I work for a non-profit private under a public service model now, so if people pull that line I point that out to them, then reference them to our website and/or a phone number they can call.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 26, 2011)

46Young said:


> How do you respond to some tool that tells you things like:
> 
> "You work for me!"
> 
> ...



I always said "I pay taxes too, therefore I pay my own salary, which means in a sense I am my own boss, and this is how I am gonna do xyz...then I point at the next guy and say YOUR salary paid for him and he has no rank or decision making authority"...


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## rmabrey (Oct 27, 2011)

I usually respond with we are a private service and and chances are your not gonna pay your bill anyway so shut up and let me do my job.





ok I dont really say that


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## BEorP (Oct 27, 2011)

Aprz said:


> Ask 'em for a plastic bag, like a grocery bag, insert your foot into the bag, and tie the handles of the bag together around your ankle/lower tib-fib. I used to do that at work when I mopped.
> 
> Sorry, can't help ya with anything else. :[



Not sure if you're serious or making a joke, but this sure seems like a good way to then end up slipping and falling instead. I think there may be a commercial boot cover that would be much better for services where this is frequently an issue.

When it comes to snow covered boots (working in the Great White North) I always make sure to stomp on the mat outside and kick off any snow I can but I also exaggerate this movement so the patient/bystanders can see that I'm at least trying to minimize the amount of stuff I track in. Though I'm sure not everyone will be pleased by this, many people did notice and appreciate the gesture.


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## Seaglass (Oct 28, 2011)

That's where being private or vollie is great.  If not, "Sir, I work for the whole community, so I can't accommodate your request," or the good old "Sorry, we're not allowed to do that." 



BEorP said:


> Not sure if you're serious or making a joke, but this sure seems like a good way to then end up slipping and falling instead. I think there may be a commercial boot cover that would be much better for services where this is frequently an issue.



I've had people give me bootcovers occasionally, after I tell them I can't take off my shoes. I'll only accept them under very limited circumstances, and then I'll tell them that they can't expect crews to always wear them. The covers are a little slippery, but not too bad. I wouldn't use them while moving a patient, and I wouldn't take the time to put them on if I thought anything serious was happening. 

I also try to get as much mud off my boots as possible before coming in, as a matter of professionalism. I know it'll be an interesting call when I track mud into a spotless house and nobody even notices.


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## Simusid (Oct 29, 2011)

"Actually sir/ma'am, we're a private non-profit.   We don't get a penny of your tax dollars from the town.  By the way, did you receive our annual pledge drive letter?"


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## DV_EMT (Oct 29, 2011)

Simusid said:


> "Actually sir/ma'am, we're a private non-profit.   We don't get a penny of your tax dollars from the town.  By the way, did you receive our annual pledge drive letter?"



Gonna have to use that one!


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## atropine (Oct 29, 2011)

Every now and then some news paper will write up an article, like the OC Register wrote that an OCFA employee made over 200k, big deal, or the LA Times wrote on a LAFD employee making over 170K for one year, big deal. Just provide the service you are there to provide with proffessional attitude and things will be fine.


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## WolfmanHarris (Oct 29, 2011)

atropine said:


> Every now and then some news paper will write up an article, like the OC Register wrote that an OCFA employee made over 200k, big deal, or the LA Times wrote on a LAFD employee making over 170K for one year, big deal. Just provide the service you are there to provide with proffessional attitude and things will be fine.



We get that all the time with Ontario's "Sunshine List" of public employees making over 100K. Problems with it are:
- accounting for inflation, 100K when the list was started is almost 130K now. 
- it doesn't differentiate between base pay and OT. So if a medic gets consistently screwed with shift overrun or comes in regularly to fill in on extra shift the public gets the impression that their pay is higher than it is. Sure they made more, but they worked a lot more.


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## Aprz (Oct 30, 2011)

BEorP said:


> Not sure if you're serious or making a joke, but this sure seems like a good way to then end up slipping and falling instead. I think there may be a commercial boot cover that would be much better for services where this is frequently an issue.


I was serious.  I wouldn't be surprised if it increased the odd of you slipping, but I doubt the increase would be significant; it's not like you're putting on ice skates.


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