# Violence Grows in a Desperate Haiti



## Sasha (Jan 17, 2010)

This isn't EMS news really, but it does have to do with a topic that has been discussed on EMTLife... running off to Haiti. Those with no experience or training or practice at disaster management want to run into this? All this violence? What about your family if you get killed? Just because the quake is over doesn't mean the death toll wont continue to rise.

*Violence Grows in a Desperate Haiti*
Full Article: http://www.sphere.com/world/article...nce-increases-in-quake-ravaged-haiti/19320075


> (Jan. 17) -- Violence is increasing on the streets of Haiti in the wake of last week's devastating earthquake, as desperation gives way to looting and gang-related activity.
> 
> The United States planned to have 12,000 troops in the region by Monday to speed up relief efforts and quell the rising anger.
> 
> ...





> Much of the looting was occurring near Haiti's Civil Prison, where 4,000 inmates escaped after the structure collapsed.
> 
> "It is increasingly dangerous," said Leon Meleste, an Adventist relief worker. "The police do not exist. People are doing what they want."
> 
> Pockets of violence were impeding the relief efforts on the ground. Security concerns were halting deliveries of fresh water amid reports that armed gangs were demanding money and supplies at checkpoints. A Belgian medical team was even forced to abandon critically injured patients Friday night after local security officers deemed the area unsafe.





> Haitian hip-hop artist Wyclef Jean said a teenage boy volunteering with his Yele Haiti relief organization was shot and killed on the job.
> 
> "Someone wanted to carjack him," Jean told the Daily Telegraph, a British newspaper.



In the midst of disaster and desperation people often lose humanity.


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## Jeffrey_169 (Jan 18, 2010)

What else can these people do? They are in a rock and a hard place. The UN is severely putting the screws to these people. There are literally rows and rows of pallets as far as the eye can see. It does no good to stock pile supplies. Individual donors and countries around the world have sent money and supplies for them to be just sitting around? Get the lead out and start distributing. 

Then, Hilary Clinton and her goons at the U.S. State Department have taken a bad situation and made it all the more worse. When we all know children are at a disaster have the greatest risk of mortality and morbidity, why are they being forced to remain there when they have adoptive parents right here in the U.S., and in particular here in Texas. These children have already been adopted, legally, and all they need is the final papers on their Visas and yet they were told, by the USDS, "if the orphanage evacuates without proper permission the kids will be taken into protective custody in the states, not delivered to their adoptive parents". These are orphans, who have little options on a good day, and here we are saying "sorry, can't help you". 

I know as a proud parent there is nothing I would not do for my family, nothing!!! These people were told almost a week ago we were going to help them, but as usual only empty promises and bureaucratic results. We don't need politics, we need to abide by our word and get the job done. The longer we wait, the more they pay. The longer we wait and more we let eh UN tell us how to do our job, the more people will die needlessly. The more we can get out the less we have to contend with, the less people will die, and the better off we will all be. They kids have already been adopted, get them and go. 

Here is the link to the news story where the above quote comes from:
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/01/17/the-house-of-gods-children/


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## triemal04 (Jan 18, 2010)

After seeing your posts on this particular subject, all I can say is, you really don't have a clue do you?  I don't mean that in a mean way, but I do mean it literally.

Obtaining supplies for this type of problem is only the first step.  You still have to think about how those supplies will be delivered to the country (currently a very large issue and one that is being made worse by CIVILIAN flights still trying to land), where they will be stored until they can be passed out, how they will be passed out, and who will get each particular thing first.  

Right now, access to Haiti is horrible.  It's not a simple matter of flying into Port-Au-Prince; if you haven't heard the airport is in shambles and the space is at a premium.  Same goes for the port.  The local road's in Haiti weren't the best to begin with, and now are even worse, so even if needed items do make it in, getting them to the appropriate people will be difficult.  And the issue of where all the supplies (and people who will be distributing them) will be kept is still a problem.

Which brings up the next point; who is going to distribute these things, and how will you keep those people safe as they are doing so?  This is fast becoming a major issue; Red Cross workers have already had to pull back multiple times because their safety was in jeopardy.  The way to help is not to throw a bunch of untrained wannabe dogooders into Haiti; that will only make the situation worse.  It isn't to start airlifting people out either; unless you plan on taking in 10 or 15 survivors, where do you plan on putting these people?

What needs to be done is what is happening.  And what is happening is the unfortunate reality of what happens when a third-world country get's hit by a major disaster large enough to destroy essential all it's infrastructure; not just roads, buildings, water facilities, but gov't systems as well.  There is no magic wand you can wave at this situation to fix it.  It'll take effort, money, and a lot of time before it get's resolved.  But don't worry; in a week or so people will get bored with the story and reporting on it will stop.  When that happens just don't forget that the country is still going to be in a real bad way.


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## Jeffrey_169 (Jan 18, 2010)

Okay, you disagree I get that, but insulting my intelligence is not proving your point.


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## triemal04 (Jan 18, 2010)

Jeffrey_169 said:


> *What else can these people do? They are in a rock and a hard place. The UN is severely putting the screws to these people. There are literally rows and rows of pallets as far as the eye can see. It does no good to stock pile supplies. Individual donors and countries around the world have sent money and supplies for them to be just sitting around? Get the lead out and start distributing.*
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


This is what I was replying to.  Once again, there is no quick fix for this.  It will take a long time to accomplish, and what is being done is what can be done.  Simply saying "oh we can do this so we should just do it immedietly" doesn't work, there is a lot more that goes into getting it done.  Sorry if you don't what to understand that, but that's how it is.


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## CAOX3 (Jan 19, 2010)

Sasha said:


> This isn't EMS news really, but it does have to do with a topic that has been discussed on EMTLife... running off to Haiti. Those with no experience or training or practice at disaster management want to run into this? All this violence? What about your family if you get killed? Just because the quake is over doesn't mean the death toll wont continue to rise..



Pretty easy for me, I dont go where it isnt safe.  I have a family to provide for.

There are other ways to help.


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## Jeffrey_169 (Jan 19, 2010)

triemal04 said:


> This is what I was replying to.  Once again, there is no quick fix for this.  It will take a long time to accomplish, and what is being done is what can be done.  Simply saying "oh we can do this so we should just do it immedietly" doesn't work, there is a lot more that goes into getting it done.  Sorry if you don't what to understand that, but that's how it is.



I am not the idiot your attitude seems to imply. I know we have units in our armed services which handle air drops in the most hazardous places on Earth, and they can drop anything from a tooth pick to a tank; this what they do! So, since you are ready to criticize me as such tell me why these units cannot be deployed to the region? I know we have units which can build roads almost over night; the Sea Bees and the 8th engineers are wonderful at doing just this. In WWII we build runways on some of the most inhospitable areas the world, and now 60 years later we don't know how or don't have the necessary skills and equipment? Explain that one to me because this I do not understand. 

You apparently feel the need to attempt to show me how little I know, and yet it would appear you know nothing of history. Military history is something I know well. The military is capable of a great many things, providing the politicians leave their nose out of it and let them do what is needed. 

Furthermore, the children at the orphanage have already been adopted by US families and already have a home to go to here. So, you asked me where would they go, and as the story says, they would go to their new homes. 

I am not blaming any one agency for the obvious lack in organization. The truth is there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. You ask the UN who is in charge, and they say one group; ask the US, and you get another answer; ask the Haitians and they give you still a different answer. I am not debasing any agency in particular. I am saying they just need to get organized. 

Its funny you should think I have little to no experience dealing with such matters. I have been to 3 hurricanes and 2 major blizzards, and three major wildfires. I have had my fair share of disasters. Inasmuch I understand the need for an established chain of command and established lines of communication. 

Perhaps you should know the definition of ***-u-me before you prejudge based upon a post you disagree with.


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## Aidey (Jan 19, 2010)

It is been pointed out multiple times that this incident is not like the Tusnami or Katrina because for one it is requiring multiple country cooperation, and two because most of the local government is destroyed, where as in the tsunami a lot of it was intact. 

The situation isn't pretty, and even if they declare marshal law and the UN starts acting like a dictatorship they will not be able to micromanage everything. It will still take time to organize everything. Right now I think they are still in "respond" mode, rather than "rebuild" mode. Heck, they really haven't even finished triaging everyone yet.

This could turn into a huge international incident with serious ramifications for years and years to come if we or anyone else starts to bully and throw their weight around. 

As for the orphans, they are getting them out as much as they can. I will try and find the link, but one article said there were approximately 300 children waiting to be adopted by US parents, and around 150 had been evacuated already. 

I have to ask though, with all the people who need to get out of the country for medical care, do uninjured orphans have priority over them? We all know the transportation situation is a mess, and it has got to be very difficult for the people running the airport to decide who gets to leave.


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## Sasha (Jan 19, 2010)

> Furthermore, the children at the orphanage have already been adopted by US families and already have a home to go to here. So, you asked me where would they go, and as the story says, they would go to their new homes.



Sorry to sound heartless, but transportation out of Haiti is already a nightmare, and their concerns should be focused on those who need to get to the US for medical care. If the newly adopted orphans are uninjured they should not be a priority for transport out of Haiti until those who are injured are transported out to recieve medical care.


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## triemal04 (Jan 19, 2010)

Jeffrey_169 said:


> I am not the idiot your attitude seems to imply. I know we have units in our armed services which handle air drops in the most hazardous places on Earth, and they can drop anything from a tooth pick to a tank; this what they do! So, since you are ready to criticize me as such tell me why these units cannot be deployed to the region? I know we have units which can build roads almost over night; the Sea Bees and the 8th engineers are wonderful at doing just this. In WWII we build runways on some of the most inhospitable areas the world, and now 60 years later we don't know how or don't have the necessary skills and equipment? Explain that one to me because this I do not understand.
> I don't think you're an idiot; I just think that you don't quite understand the reality of the situation.  And you keep proving this by mentioning what was done almost 70 years ago; the current military is not the same as back then, nor is it in the same type of situation.  If you haven't noticed, there are other areas that it's being used in right now.
> 
> You apparently feel the need to attempt to show me how little I know, and yet it would appear you know nothing of history. Military history is something I know well. The military is capable of a great many things, providing the politicians leave their nose out of it and let them do what is needed.
> ...


Replies in red.  You need to start realizing that mass mobilizations of people isn't going to fix the problem and may potentially make it worse.  The people who need to be there are the ones who are.  If there are people who could help but aren't, has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps they are committed elsewhere or not capable of responding?  More goes into going and functioning in that type of environment than just their capabilities as they are written on paper.  This is a lesson you need to learn.


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## redcrossemt (Jan 19, 2010)

Jeffrey_169 said:


> What else can these people do? They are in a rock and a hard place. The UN is severely putting the screws to these people. There are literally rows and rows of pallets as far as the eye can see. It does no good to stock pile supplies. Individual donors and countries around the world have sent money and supplies for them to be just sitting around? Get the lead out and start distributing.



Building roads, runways, and dropping supplies won't help if there's violence brewing on the streets... You drop supplies and the people with guns take everything - wow, that's a big help to those that actually need it.

I'm not saying that we're doing everything we're capable of, but we need to keep in mind that this is political and is difficult to coordinate, no matter how much it shouldn't be.


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## Cory (Jan 19, 2010)

I was watching my local news channel here last night, and two of the reporters were in Haiti. Now, I understand we need some media there of course. But why can't the main network reporters do this? Why do we need a bunch of little reporters from every local-station show? It sickens me to think that some rescuers were not sent, just so NBC and Fox could send out every minor station reporter they have. Each mouth to feed is one less mouth that can be fead to someone who hasn't eaten in days or even weeks. We don't need all of them there right now. The airport shouldn't be overrun with news vehicles. Also, as someone with background in technical theatre and teachnical film, I can attest that it takes a lot of workers and equiptment just to get a shot of every reporter, and for some of these major networks, they will have a full sound console, lighting console, camera station, and many other very large pieces of equiptment that reqiure multiple technicians and take up lots of space. The priorities are backwards for many. This doesn't help the violent situation that is growing.


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## silver (Jan 19, 2010)

redcrossemt said:


> Building roads, runways, and dropping supplies won't help if there's violence brewing on the streets... You drop supplies and the people with guns take everything - wow, that's a big help to those that actually need it.
> 
> I'm not saying that we're doing everything we're capable of, but we need to keep in mind that this is political and is difficult to coordinate, no matter how much it shouldn't be.



Correct. Supply drops are incredibly ineffective in the often termed "developing countries." What occurs is they end up in the hands of those who have the most power, or need it the least. If they don't, then the citizens are at all ends with each other as they scramble to get supplies. It really is the half a** way of doing it.

I would be intrigued to see if any "shock therapy" gets applied. Often times in this chaos, serious economy or governmental changes occur like dictators, military coos and such.


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## BLSBoy (Jan 20, 2010)

redcrossemt said:


> Building roads, runways, and dropping supplies won't help if there's violence brewing on the streets... You drop supplies and the people with guns take everything - wow, that's a big help to those that actually need it.



Somalia all over again.


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