# New fire chief to enter the fray



## crash_cart (Sep 6, 2007)

The city of Lincoln has a new fire chief.  A city council rep and the fire department have not had a good relationship. 

Fire chief to enter the fray

Some of the councilman's complaints:


> *Not all calls require a cavalry. He questions the need for so many fire and ambulance personnel to respond to certain calls. He says people sometimes remark on the high number of firefighters that respond to minor incidents.
> 
> * Car fires could be doused by police officers or firefighters using fire extinguishers.
> 
> * Firetrucks should carry three firefighters, rather than the four recommended by national guidelines and preferred by the department.



Any thoughts about the council member's ideas?


----------



## firecoins (Sep 6, 2007)

the city needs new councilmen


----------



## Flight-LP (Sep 6, 2007)

Well, its obvious that this pompous *** has issues with the fire department, but I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says. There does need to be accountability and as we all know, tightening of the reins when it comes to the budget. But no, the FD does not need to go on every call. Want to get a Paramedic to the scene quicker (i.e. response greater than say 8 minutes)? Then put up a squad truck with 1 medic on it. That way you save the costs of rolling an engine company and you are still able to provide effective service. Priority dispatching is another cost cutting measure. Someone with the flu for 3 days who hasn't seen their doctor does not necessitate an ALS response with an engine also coming to play. Yes it is always better to "have and not need than to need and not have", but a little common sense and creative ingenuity can go a long way to save a department some money.......................

And yes, I'd get a new councilman. Anyone who supports Rural Metro has to be incapable of performing public representation................


----------



## PArescueEMT (Sep 6, 2007)

is he saying that the NFPA doesn't know what they are talking about??? What is he smoking??? I'd like to see a fully involved mini van put out with fire extinguishers. He needs to be ousted.


----------



## BossyCow (Sep 6, 2007)

The City Manager of a nearby city told the Fire Marshall after a big downtown commercial blaze "You know, with insurance and everything, why do we bother to put the fires out?  It might be cheaper to let them burn and then let the insurance companies pay to rebuild them"  

The fire marshall thought he was kidding, he was wrong.


----------



## firecoins (Sep 7, 2007)

BossyCow said:


> The City Manager of a nearby city told the Fire Marshall after a big downtown commercial blaze "You know, with insurance and everything, why do we bother to put the fires out?  It might be cheaper to let them burn and then let the insurance companies pay to rebuild them"
> 
> The fire marshall thought he was kidding, he was wrong.



Is this a real story?  What town is this?


----------



## BossyCow (Sep 7, 2007)

It was a discussion between the city manager and the fire marshall.  The City manager who just got the bill for the overtime for an older commercial building that caught fire, was griping.  This was not for publication nor was it general knowledge.  The administrator was saying that with newer fire prevention (sprinklers, smoke detectors etc) that the expense to the city, who maintains a civil fire department was so great that it would be cheaper just to let the buildings burn.  After all, the smoke detectors etc would get the people out.  Then, once the buildings were down to ashes, the newer replacements would be built to a higher standard and would have less chance of catching fire.  

The fire marshall, who is a friend thought he was kidding.  But as the guy went on and on, it became apparent that he had actually given this quite a bit of thought and from a purely economic standpoint, not having a fire department would be cheaper.  

Of course, this doesn't account for what happens when the fire spreads to the building next door, and on and on down the block until the entire downtown core is in ashes.  But hey, the guy is a bean counter administrator.  His job is to manage the budget not think.


----------



## Guardian (Sep 18, 2007)

The guy obviously doesn't know what he is talking about.  On the other hand, some of what he says is valid.  I think this is a glimpse into the future.  When all these baby boomers get old and start calling 911 like crazy and there becomes a crisis for public funds and competing government agencies for those funds, you're going to see debate like this all over the place.  So many places are going more and more to paid fire and ems workers.  Mark my words, they will wish they had the volunteers back about 15-20 years from now.  It could get ugly.  And you will see the fire department budget cut, because, lets face it, they don't run that many fires.  And fire departments think adopting ems is the answer to keep their firefighters and firetrucks on the road.  Wrong, because officials will ask the same questions that were asked by this councilman.  i.e. why, do you need to send the cavalry (huge firetrucks) to every B.S. call?


----------



## certguy (Sep 19, 2007)

*Attitudes tweeked here*

It'd be interesting to see how fast this joker changes his tune if it were his house and his family in danger . They need to put his bureaucratic backside  on an engine , then a medic rig . Give him a taste of working the field . Here in Kern County we have an excellent FD but we're down to 3 men per station like he's proposing , and in some outlying areas , only 2 . No matter how good they are , this is unsafe . On a wildland response the captain and firefighter try to head off the fire in a patrol unit and that leaves the engineer alone trying to protect structures with no one covering his back initially . About 4 years ago , we almost lost an engineer when the fire hooked around behind him while he was trying to protect a cul - de - sac . Luckily , an off - duty medic lived there and had her personal gear . They still haven't learned from it as the manning stays the same . Many of these same stations serve multiple communities . In a disaster  in my area then , you would have 3 men on 2 rigs that may have to cover 4 communities with backup cut off . What are the county supervisors thinking ???


----------



## BossyCow (Sep 19, 2007)

certguy said:


> What are the county supervisors thinking ???



They are thinking the dollars and cents (there's a reason it's not spelled 'sense') of budgetary management.  That's all.  They have already cut the budget to the bone, with minimum staffing of 4 men per shift for a city of 18,000 people.  Protocols state that the paramedics are first in on a fire with the hose line.  (Yay, did I mention I'm the wife of one of those medics?) 

To get this back to an EMS thread instead of fire (wrong forum) a lot of these type of budgetary decisions are being made in the dark.  The administrators often (not always) have little or no experience in the field they administrate.  Or the liason between those who do the work and the administration is more invested in looking good to Admin than getting what his/her department needs.


----------



## bstone (Sep 19, 2007)

I am not a FF nor do I know much about fire science. I do work with FFs, but we don't talk much fire tech. I do know, however, that cutting corners and cutting budgets from vital services is never, ever a good idea. EMS and fire services should have a problem of too much money to spend, not having to do without.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Sep 20, 2007)

Fire Service will be like everyone else in life, they will have to justify their existence and numbers. People are tired of paying for .."what if" scenarious. 
The only reason most cities and towns even have paid fire departments is for the ISO rating in regards to insurance. If it was not for that, you would rarely see a fire department in smaller towns. 

I agree, so called city fore fathers and management have not a clue, wha ti s practical or required to provide adequate service in fire proctection and supression. At the same time, I have seen an increased budget of almost every town wanting to increase FTE's to be able to "man" equipment for the "just in case" scenarios. 

Fire Chief Association has realized that justifying will be necessary, hence the major move to acquire EMS into most fire departments; although countless studies have proven it usually costs more to do so. Productivity, and accountability, as well one of the few services a FD can actually bill and break even on, also a + public image.

I do agree that majority of the time, there is an "over response" to emergency calls. In the 80's it was unusual to even get a FD to respond to an EMS call, now it is lucky if an EMT can even get through to assess their patient. More than 4 personel on a EMS medical call is waste of manpower and time. 

It will be intersting in the future. I totally agree tha volunteerism will return, actually quite the opposite. Majority of the volunteers do not have the time to respnd to 10-15 calls a day on their day off. As well, becoming tired and acting like it is another full time job. Citizens, will demand more & more as time and taxes are increased to pay for services. 

R/r 911


----------

