# Gay woman fights over hospital visitation rights in Miami court



## MMiz (Feb 8, 2009)

*Gay woman fights over hospital visitation rights in Miami court
*
_A gay woman not allowed to visit her dying partner at Jackson Memorial Hospital in 2007 hopes a federal judge will allow her claims of emotional distress and negligence to go to trial._

As her partner of 17 years slipped into a coma, Janice Langbehn pleaded with doctors and anyone who would listen to let her into the woman's hospital room.

Eight anguishing hours passed before Langbehn would be allowed into Jackson Memorial Hospital's Ryder Trauma Center. By then, she could only say her final farewell as a priest performed the last rites on 39-year-old Lisa Marie Pond.

*Read more!
*


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## firecoins (Feb 8, 2009)

That is horrible.  I see no reason why she could not visit her partner.  The state should have no say in such matters.


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## Sasha (Feb 8, 2009)

Florida's stance on gay marriage makes me very dissapointed in the state. Protect marriage? Like it isn't already a joke.


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 8, 2009)

In reading that article, I was wondering what type of Medical POA she supposedly had, and if it was even valid in FL.

The other thing that struck me is that according to the lawyer, she asked about the patient's status every 20 minutes for several hours.  What they fail to mention is what her emotional state/condition was as the time.

The third thing that strikes me about this case is how HIPAA would play into it.  Just because you claim to be a patient's partner doesn't mean you get to be informed of a patient's condition...especially if she did not arrive with the patient.


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## daedalus (Feb 8, 2009)

I am super liberal...but I bet the patient was in surgery or the patient's partner was being rowdy and getting in the way of treatment or something.


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## VentMedic (Feb 8, 2009)

If she can not prove she had any legal connection to the patient, the hospital had the right to restrict visitors and to not give out medical information. 

Florida voted against gay marriage (2008) and still has statutes on the books that makes homosexuality illegal. Not all counties or cities even recognize domestic partnerships. If you are gay, do not expect the red carpet treatment in Florida. Anita Bryant did her job well in Miami getting the message out against these deviates of society (according to her) in 1977.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm with the hospital on this one.

If you were in a hospital and kept getting asked by a PT's boyfriend / girlfriend to see their partner, then the stance is no, correct?

How is a gay partner any different from a serious boyfriend/girlfriend?  It isn't.  



Does it suck?  Sure.  I'm sure we all want to be there when a friend dies, but we ALL also know the rules.  Don't sue the hospital for following the rules.


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## VentMedic (Feb 8, 2009)

Linuss said:


> How is a gay partner any different from a serious boyfriend/girlfriend? It isn't.


 
That would depend on the state, county and city you are in.  Gay marriage is recognized in a couple of states.  Domestic Partnership is more widely recognized which can apply to heterosexuals also.


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## daedalus (Feb 8, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> If she can not prove she had any legal connection to the patient, the hospital had the right to restrict visitors and to not give out medical information.
> 
> Florida voted against gay marriage (2008) and still has statutes on the books that makes homosexuality illegal. Not all counties or cities even recognize domestic partnerships. If you are gay, do not expect the red carpet treatment in Florida. Anita Bryant did her job well in Miami getting the message out against these deviates of society (according to her) in 1977.



Deviants? Thats a little harsh.

Red carpet treatment?

How is visiting a loved one a red carpet luxury? The way I see it, the a loved one's presence can be therapeutic, and the AMA and APA have made their views quite clear on the matter, in being supportive of "homosexuals".


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## Sasha (Feb 8, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Red carpet treatment?
> How is visiting a loved one a red carpet luxury?



Some people don't believe in equal rights for those who deviate from society's picture of "normal"

Sad, isn't it?


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## Ridryder911 (Feb 8, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Some people don't believe in equal rights for those who deviate from society's picture of "normal"
> 
> Sad, isn't it?



No. Some of us have moral codes. I have not denied loved ones to see a patient, no matter gay, black, yellow or those with shaved heads and swastikas and even those not being human (animals-dogs, cats) If they act within reason and respectful. 

I believe there is more than what is being described here. Alike most other topics involving this type of structure, media and legal attention is often sought before the facts can come out. 

R/r 911


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## daedalus (Feb 8, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> No. Some of us have moral codes. I have not denied loved ones to see a patient, no matter gay, black, yellow or those with shaved heads and swastikas and even those not being human (animals-dogs, cats) If they act within reason and respectful.
> 
> I believe there is more than what is being described here. Alike most other topics involving this type of structure, media and legal attention is often sought before the facts can come out.
> 
> R/r 911


Good post. I know that Rid has differing opinions than I do.

If they are being respectful, than they should stay. If not, than same as anybody else they will need to leave. The media loves to cry discrimination. It my be that the women was being disruptive. 

I think its a delicate issue, and more so in the south, but we should try and let loved ones be with loved ones no matter our own views.


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## VentMedic (Feb 8, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Deviants? Thats a little harsh.
> 
> Red carpet treatment?


 
Hard core reality...

At least some exployers have eased up and are allowing homosexuals to be employed and openly rent apartments together. This has only come about over the past few years.  

I guess you have not heard the arguements and debates for and against gay marriage. 



daedalus said:


> AMA and APA have made their views quite clear on the matter, in being supportive of "homosexuals".


 
Now this one makes me cringe especially since you are offended by my quote from Anita Bryant. The AMA and APA involvement came out of the classification of homosexuality as a psychological disorder or disease. 

I do know the policies of the hospital which is similar to many other hospitals in the area and in other states. We are to question anyone wanting access to an ED or Unit patient. If they have no legal right to be in a restricted area, they can be removed. If they do convince us that they are partners, there will still be a need for legal proof for medical information disclosure and decision making. 

Often the blood/legal family members of the injured/ill person may not be in agreement with the homosexual relationship. If gay partnership is not recognized nor any DPOA paperwork is in place, the hospital has no choice but to respect the rights of the family by legal/blood means. If they put a restriction on the partner for visitation, it will be honored unless a judge says otherwise.


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## daedalus (Feb 8, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Hard core reality...
> 
> At least some exployers have eased up and are allowing homosexuals to be employed and openly rent apartments together. This has only come about over the past few years.
> 
> ...



Arguments for or against gay marriage? I live in California. I was a big advocate for the "No" side of Proposition 8, and I know the other side's argument and values just as well as my own. I am not offended by your quote of whoever that was, merely questioning your use of it?

As far as medical professional organizations, I can pull out one of my family member's mosby nursing text and see if I can find where I read that one. Ill get back to you.

I am not arguing restricting access to ICU and ED, or even the rest of the hospital. I agree there are probably some other forces at work here.


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## VentMedic (Feb 8, 2009)

You can easily research Anita Bryant and her anti-gay statements made in Miami. Video clips of her are in the movie "Milk" which takes place in SF. California hospitals also have similar visitation rules but domestic partnership is available and recognized in most areas of CA. Discrimination of this type is nothing new.

When I know my patient is in a same sex partnership, I will remind them to bring ID and whatever paperwork necessary to identify their relationship when they come to the hospital.  I will also pass the information on when I give report and usually visitation will not be an issue. However, the appropriate paperwork will be needed for medical information access and decision making ability. 

*Phoenix to allow hospital visitation by domestic partners*

by *Scott Wong* - *Dec. 18, 2008 *
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/12/18/20081218registry1218.html



> Phoenix has become the second city in Arizona to grant hospital-visitation rights to unmarried gay or straight couples who live together.


 
*Hospital Visitation For Gay Partners Considered*

*Mar 29, 2007 *

http://wcco.com/politics/gay.marriage.hospital.2.366176.html



> A Senate committee will soon consider a new law that would guarantee that access at all hospitals.
> 
> "When someone takes their partner to the emergency room and they're asked 'what's your relationship to this person?' and they respond 'I'm their partner' and the nurse puts up her hand and says stop, your not family. You can't go beyond this door," said Ann DeGroot, who represents the gay rights group Out Front Minnesota.


 
*State ensures gay hospital visitation rights*
*April 22nd, 2008 *

http://www.q-notes.com/2008/04/22/state-ensures-gay-hospital-visitation-rights/



> RALEIGH — North Carolina hospital patients will soon have a new right, ensuring they can receive the visitors who matter most to them regardless of the legal status of their relationship. A new statewide rule will help ensure that same-sex partners and other loved ones will be treated the same as immediate family.
> 
> The rule adds a provision to the Patients’ Bill of Rights, stating: “A patient has the right to designate visitors who shall receive the same visitation privileges as the patient’s immediate family members, regardless of whether the visitors are legally related to the patient.” The right applies to hospitals statewide.


 

For the faces behind the OP news article:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNsBLJn-NiA

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxZwZOCKFrw[/youtube]


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## daedalus (Feb 8, 2009)

I do not care to giver her any more opinions any more attention than they already have.


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## Aidey (Feb 9, 2009)

I think this is rather unfortunate. What if this was a friend who had the legal guardianship and other paperwork, would they have still objected in the same way? 

I understand they were travelers, and may not have had the proper Florida paperwork, but I do think the hospital was out of line refusing the partner access.


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## VentMedic (Feb 9, 2009)

Aidey said:


> I think this is rather unfortunate. What if this was a friend who had the legal guardianship and other paperwork, would they have still objected in the same way?
> 
> I understand they were travelers, and may not have had the proper Florida paperwork, but I do think the hospital was out of line refusing the partner access.


 
No, she would have be allowed in. The issue may have come from being separated and then trying to get into a very secure Ryder Trauma Center. Without proof or proper ID, that might prove to be difficult even for employees who forget their staff badge. 

JMH is a huge hospital that once had almost 1800 beds but now averages about 1200. Ryder Trauma Center offers very tight security because many of its patients are members of the knife and gun clubs. 

The links I posted show that gay patients and their partners face this form of discrimination throughout the country. If domestic partnership (not marriage) is not recognized, the partner may have a difficult time being recognized as "family". 

Miami has dealt with this for over 3 decades when Anita Bryant put the city on the map in a very discriminating way. It was particularly hard when HIV/AIDS became prevalent and those dying at JMH needed the support of loved ones. Special considerations were made but not without a nasty outrage expressed by the public who had already stereotyped the disease with homosexuality. Fortunately after much education, the public's opinion softened but that still did not change the laws of Florida and Dade County.


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## firecoins (Feb 9, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> No. Some of us have moral codes.
> R/r 911


Those of us who support equal rights for gay couples also have moral codes albeit different ones.


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## karaya (Feb 9, 2009)

The article in the Miami Herald clearly took a slant in that it suggested the woman was denied access solely on her sexual orientation. And it worked! Just look at some of the responses here.

When I saw the first paragraph after the reporter's lead line I knew then the article was going to have a slight bias, which coming from the Miami Herald doesn't surprise me. I've spent a lot of time in south Florida for several years on business and the media outlets between Fort Lauderdale and Miami are some of the most sensationalized that I've ever seen.

I think Ventmedic was on to something about the Ryder Trauma Center's rigid security. After all, the woman did eventually get in. But, I don't feel it had anything to do with homosexuality.  And as others suggested, there may be more to this as to why she wasn't admitted. You can't count on a newspaper article as a complete accounting of the situation.

This will be interesting to see if the legal case is allowed to move further by the Federal Judge.


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## firecoins (Feb 9, 2009)

Yes, Very true.


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## RESQ_5_1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Although I feel homosexuality is abherrant and deviant, I don't see why homosexuals can't at least be classified the same as Common-law. If they are in a committed relationship and co-habitating as a "couple", then I don't see a problem with them being offered common-law status. However, I am completely against them being allowed to marry.


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## BLSBoy (Feb 9, 2009)

There are 3 sides to every story. We are hearing only one of them. 

I do agree that Floridas rules are somewhat antiquated, and while marriage is between a man and woman, there is _*NO*_ reason that a man and man, or woman and woman can't enjoy the same protections and privlages. 

Get with the times Charlie!

Stop pandering to the right wing, and do something to make life better for your constituents. <_<


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## karaya (Feb 9, 2009)

Common law is typically base on legal precedence and if a court does not recognize the union of a gay couple then common law doesn't exist.  As for common law marriage, only nine states recognize this and Florida is not one of them.


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## karaya (Feb 9, 2009)

BLSBoy said:


> Stop pandering to the right wing, and do something to make life better for your constituents. <_<


 
Now you're just making a political stance and not offering anything of value to this thread.


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## VentMedic (Feb 9, 2009)

There are other factors besides security that could have delayed her entry.  There were probably many tests and procedures that had to be done on admission.   Being a state of the art teaching hospital, I can't even begin to tell you what all can be done or attempted to save a person's life during the first few hours at a large center such as Ryder.   We still believe in doing whatever we can as soon as possible regardless of those who disbelieve in the Golden Hour.  From whatever results are gotten during that first hour leads the way for treatment during the next few hours.


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## firecoins (Feb 9, 2009)

karaya said:


> Now you're just making a political stance and not offering anything of value to this thread.



I think everyone beliefs on this issue is a view into their political beliefs. There is some value into what he is saying.


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## karaya (Feb 9, 2009)

firecoins said:


> I think everyone beliefs on this issue is a view into their political beliefs. There is some value into what he is saying.


 
It's one thing to look between the lines of responses and try to conclude political bias. I see posts here all the time that call out ones political orientation and I've been known to call it out from time to time.

But to make an outright political banner, as I saw in BLSBoy's response, offers nothing constructive to this thread. Nothing.

Now my responses are starting to stray from the topic!


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## BLSBoy (Feb 9, 2009)

I called out the Gov of Florida, who has done nothing more the muck up a well run state when Jeb Bush was in there. 

Please tell me how me supporting gay rights is a political statement.


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## karaya (Feb 9, 2009)

BLSBoy said:


> Stop pandering to the right wing, and do something to make life better for your constituents. <_<


 
It's one thing to make a statement about your support for gay rights, which mind you I don't believe was the intention of the OP to debate gay rights.

But, you go an extra step and make the statement above that insinuates that anyone who doesn't support gay rights is right wing. That my friend is a complete bias political rant.

Remember, Florida voters approved the Marriage Protection Amendment a few months ago. Are we saying that only right wing voters turned out at the polls? The same state that gave 27 electoral votes to Obama last November?


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## BossyCow (Feb 9, 2009)

This issue, while a lot more emotionally regarded than others comes down to basic preparedness. Do we have the paperwork in place to prove, or assign our legal rights and wished regarding our health. We can't assume any more that hospital staff will take care of this for us. 

There will be that staff member with an attitude that will use their beliefs to influence their actions. But the world is changing. Family can be all kinds of different things. I have a friend who's family consists of herself, her daughter and two female friends who share her home with their daughters. No they aren't gay.. but they are a family.

Another friend lives with her father and her father's maiden aunt. Again.. family, sharing a home, sharing expenses, caring for each other. My boys live in large communal type living arrangements. They share a home, celebrate the holidays together, and are very much a family. 

So, if you want your rights to be acknowledged.. do the paperwork. If you want your partner to inherit.. make a will. If the paperwork is done you can leave it to your spouse, your caregiver, your sexual partner, your next door neighbor or your pet cat.

Today's world has become so complicated that there no longer can be the assumption that the local healthcare facilty will just 'know' that its okay to let you in. I face this as a mother of adult children. I went in to the doctor's office with my son after he broke his leg with my checkbook and they wouldn't let me pay his bill until he signed paperwork authorizing it and he was standing right next to me at the time.


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