# Off duty??



## daemonicusxx (Dec 25, 2005)

I went out to a bar the other night with a few friends from work. we got to talking, what if someone went down in the bar. two of us were medics, and the other two EMT's. the other medic there was under the impression that we were to NOT HELP at all, because we had been drinking. question is, what are the laws in your area on this issue, what do you think. do you think that if you had one beer, and it usually takes more than 6 to get you toasty, you would be able to at least do CPR. what about someone going down, and there be two medics there, but they cant help. is that abandonment? do you have a duty to act? two medics just standing there cause they had one beer apiece. we were in plain clothes, no one knew who we were, but i just couldnt figure out what i would do. what do ya'll think?


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## TTLWHKR (Dec 25, 2005)

Say "I'm not a medic, I'm going to a costume party".

lol


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## MMiz (Dec 26, 2005)

This is really a personal question.  As a recent college grad, there were times where I was intoxicated and someone required medical assistance.

If a random person went down in a bar and required CPR, I would not perform it if I were intoxicated.  Of course it really depends on how intoxicated I was, but as a general rule I would not provide emergency medical services while intoxicated.

Friends got band aids, splints, and eye patches while I've been intoxicated.  I've bandaged and taken vitals from close friends.  That's about it.

When I'm off duty I have no duty to act.  If someone went down I'd go over, check his LOC, and shout for someone to call 911 and someone else to initiate CPR.  I would *not* do CPR while intoxicated.

Life isn't black and white though.  There is  a lot of gray areas, and I think each situation may be treated differently.


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## MedicPrincess (Dec 26, 2005)

I would say, if I had one beer, I probably would perform CPR if necessary.  The abandonment issue, in this case, really isn't a point.  Unless you start care and then leave you couldn't have abandoned them.

In Florida, there is no duty to act.  I can be standing in line at Wal-Mart  and the person in front of me collapse, and I can just walk away.  BUT the second I say "I'm an EMT, I can help" then I am roped in.

Now if your trashed drunk, I would say your best bet *WALK AWAY!*You shouldn't be held liable for something you can't do.


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## Jon (Dec 26, 2005)

Now, being 20, I don't drink..... But, hypothetically, If you are still "sober" enough that you feel you can help (1 or 2 beers - well under 0.08% BAC), HELP. Do CPR, until someone relives you. If you are trashed enough that you can't trust yourself, call 911, and don't do anything.



I'm the type who will stop at a MVA when driving by if it looks worse than a fender-bender... and I'm not late for work .


If I was in a bar, or any "public place" and someone went down, I would check LOC, and call for an ambulance. If they were in full arrest, someone would go and get my crap from my trunk, so I could have a BVM   (Even without O2... still works).  If they were seizing... clear the area around them and let them do the tuna while waiting for the ambulance.


Also, look at what you are wearing.... we aren't *supposed* to hit bars in uniform, but things happen.  If you are wearing an "Absolute Paramedic" or "Paramedics save lives, EMT's save Paramedics" shirt.... you probably should help if you are able. If you are in civvies, and no one knows you, you can easily get away with ignoring or walking the other way.

Jon


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## Stevo (Dec 26, 2005)

an apt response Jon.

we've a duty to act law in my state, yet i think we should all know when the uniforms should be on, and make no bones of it when it's time they come off

~S~


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## daemonicusxx (Dec 27, 2005)

What states have this Duty to Act law, anyone know if Texas is one of em? 

i really like all the input. ya'll are great. i just didnt think i really could justify leaving someone to die on the floor of a bar. especially if i only had two beers. now if i was trashed, whole nother story, its all CYA there. i sometimes wear a T-shirt that says "Medic" on the back, dont know that i would wear it to a bar or club though. but most of the time its plain clothes, badge in wallet.


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## emtff99 (Dec 27, 2005)

*I would have to agree with Jon. Out of 23 years in Ems, Only once have I ever worn a T-shirt stating any type of Ems Service I may have been with then. *


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## subzero_sapphire (Dec 28, 2005)

First off, I am new to this forum, so... HI...

Secondly,  I would have to agree with the general census, if you are drunk you are opening a whole can of worms when you screw up... or possibly even if you don't screw up.  The agency I ran with before coming to PA had a rule that paid employees were not allowed to visit bars in their first due area, due to bad PR, or something to that effect.  I think that is a wise move.  As for the duty to act thing, you are really in trouble either way... I mean act, and mess the person up worse you get into lots of trouble, don't act get into trouble... I think that the consequences for not acting would probably be less....

Of course, I have never been in that situation, so this is only a guess as to how I would react.


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## Jon (Dec 28, 2005)

emtff99 said:
			
		

> *I would have to agree with Jon. Out of 23 years in Ems, Only once have I ever worn a T-shirt stating any type of Ems Service I may have been with then. *


With me, it is Murphy's law.... if I'm in Walmart in WhackerWear, nothing happens. When I go to WalMart and am dressed casually, with no EMS logos, patches, etc, I end up with a kid dropping a glass bottle of OJ and mom worrying about the tearful kid, thinking they might have gotten cut somewhere... maybe their eye.... (can I really ignore this.... there will be more FF's, LEO's, and EMT's running for this than some codes) I calmed mom down, kid calmed down, the kid was only upset because mom was upset.... everyone calmed down, and all was OK!!

Oh... and I didn't even identify myself as an EMT.


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 30, 2005)

Well, I can honestly say that our state has no duty to act unless you are on duty...if you are off and either in civvies or whacker attire you have no duty to act- for all the lookie loos know you are from LA and dont speak SC EMS talk.  I have never encountered any of these situations either in many years...but I also dont drink like I used to- guess old age is creeping up on me...but unless I step in and start to help when I am off, I can skate on any responsibility to act, legal--ethically and morally is another story


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## coloradoemt (Dec 30, 2005)

My take on this is, I do not/will not announce, participate, offer advice, etc. in pt. care after I have been drinking. Here is why... Been drinking and save someone, lucky you. Been drinking and harm someone further than they are...lawyer up.


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 30, 2005)

what a Litigious  society we live in...lawyers everywhere.....


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## Stevo (Dec 30, 2005)

ok, an off duty emt at a lawyers convention is identified after the guest speaker collapses....

~S~


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## TTLWHKR (Dec 30, 2005)

Stevo said:
			
		

> ok, an off duty emt at a lawyers convention is identified after the guest speaker collapses....
> 
> ~S~


 

Pretend to faint when you stand up...


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## Stevo (Dec 30, 2005)

heh~
preferably into the cleavage of the mayors buxom wife sitting next to you...._just for effect_....i mean , if your gonna give them a reason to talk up ems, make it a good one....

~S~


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## FFEMT1764 (Dec 30, 2005)

Heck with his wife, fall into his mistress!


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