# City Can’t Ask Muslim FF to Shave



## Jon (Aug 15, 2005)

City Can’t Ask Muslim
Firefighter to Shave Beard

The Legal Intelligencer
By Asher Hawkins
July 15, 2005


A Philadelphia firefighter who is a practicing Muslim should not have to shave his beard in order to stay on the job, a common pleas judge has ruled in a decision that is apparently the first to interpret Pennsylvania’s Religious Freedom Protection Act. 

In DeVeaux v. City of Philadelphia, Judge Joseph A. Dych argued that the Commonwealth Court should affirm his decision to grant Curtis DeVeaux a preliminary injunction. 

According to Dych’s opinion, DeVeaux has been on suspension without pay since February 2005 for refusing to shave his beard as required by Fire Department Directive #13. 

“It appears to be undisputed, and in any event the record clearly establishes, that Fire Department Directive #13 imposes a substantial burden upon plaintiff’s free exercise of religion by, inter alia, forcing him to chose between his religion and his job,” Dych wrote. 

Rest HERE: Clicky


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## rescuecpt (Aug 15, 2005)

Hope he doesn't sue the city when his Scott pack doesn't get a good seal because of his beard and he either gets singed or inhales some of the nasty bad stuff and gets sick.  So much for safety, as long as we're all PC.


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## Jon (Aug 15, 2005)

Erika,

same thoughts exactly (and the City even uses Scott packs   ). I saw this on another list, and felt this could be an intresting discussion.

Note, the article says he can return to work. FD and OSHA can't, in thier right mind, let him ANYWHERE NEAR a fireground (not even exterior... what if something goes bad and you need to mask up???)

The guy will be driving a desk... not an ambulance or firetruck. He will probably end up at Fireman's Hall (the museum) in the short term. That is where the city puts firefighters who are on "limited duty." Long term... he may end up in *gasp* recruitment or public education, or in dispatch, or some other support role at his current pay grade.

I'll bet he dosen't last long, and either shaves or quits.


In a related issue, a Philly Police Officer is now apparently challenging a similar rule, that prohibits facial hair beyond "X" length.

Jon


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## ma2va92 (Aug 15, 2005)

sure why not... if ya don't have to show your face in Fl. to get a drivers permit

see how long it take for him to shave... after the smell of burnt hair goes up his nose a few times...... 

or are they going to rule.. 

he will not have to enter any area that has fire... cause it may damage his beard

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THIS BS.... if your going for a job plan on going by the rules.. or put a app. in another place

had someone complain that i made the statement..... " I HIT A COON LAST NIGHT"

the non white person took it personal... even after I showed them the dead racoon


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## Jon (Aug 15, 2005)

Apparently, a, umm, DARKER-SKINNED state congressperson from the Philly area called a, ummm, PALER-SKINNED state congressperson from the Rural western part of the state a "Cracker" last month....

Somehow, that was ok.


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## rescuecpt (Aug 16, 2005)

> *Both Sides Claim Win in D.C. Firefighters' Beard Ruling
> 
> ............
> MATTHEW CELLA
> ...



Clicky


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## rescuejew (Aug 16, 2005)

I work with a muslim guy who is devout and does not shave his beard...there are other peices of equipment that can be purchased that keep him from, what was it that someone said??  Oh yeah..."riding a desk"  Hes a great medic, our service would be of less calibre without him.  PC has its place, seeing as how, I myself, just filed a race-discrimination complaint.  If its ridiculous, fine, its ridiculous.  BUT, if you arent a minority, you have NO IDEA how it feels to be treated differently, and how sensitive you may become as a result.


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## Jon (Aug 17, 2005)

Good point. But if you join the FD, then deciding that "I want to grow a beard" *after *joining the Dept and knowing the rules.... seems silly and stupid.

Jon


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## Jon (Aug 17, 2005)

Both Sides Claim Win in D.C. Firefighters' Beard Ruling


Updated: 08-15-2005 01:11:19 PM


MATTHEW CELLA
The Washington Times


A federal judge has ruled that safety outweighs the religious rights of three Muslim firefighters who have refused to shave their beards for religious reasons. 

U.S. District Court Judge James Robertson issued the ruling late Thursday, which is the latest chapter in the department's eight-year effort to enforce a grooming policy to ensuring firefighters get a proper fit for their face masks. 

<SNIP>

The judge also stated fire officials must now test the men to see whether they can get a proper fit with their beards. 

Mr. Spitzer said if the firefighters pass the test, then they've won. He said the real issue is the fire department's effort to institute a grooming policy. 

However, Judge Robertson's ruling also states the department has the right to remove from active-duty status the firefighters who fail the test, regardless of their adherence to religious beliefs. 

"It is encouraging to note that the judge recognizes this is a critical safety issue," said Alan Etter, a fire department spokesman. 

Mr. Etter said that in addition to the three original plaintiffs protected by the 2001 injunction, six other firefighters have claimed religious exemption. 

He said all of the firefighters have been placed on administrative duty until they are in compliance with department policy. 

Judge Robertson said the bearded firefighters clearly could get a proper fit when oxygen was flowing into their masks and creating a pressure seal. But it is not clear whether they can get a seal without the oxygen flow because the District has refused to test them if they were not cleanshaven, he said. 

~ From Firehouse.com  - Clicky for More


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## Jon (Aug 17, 2005)

This is a very big deal.... 2 rulings, in 2 seperate East Coast cities, ruing that they can't be fired.

Also, as for hoods, etc.... I like the DC ruling... if they can pas the fit test, they can keep working, otherwise... 

Things to consider about alternate equipment:

Are the masks/hoods compatible with the current system in use by the city.
Are the masks/hoods acceptable for an interior firefighter?
Are the masks/hoods as versitle as the ones in current use (think DC may use a masks that can also be fitted with NBC filters... would theses guys need a seprate gas mask??


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## rescuejew (Aug 17, 2005)

Jon: The FFs may not have grown a beard after they were hired, it may have been a new policy instituted by the dept.  Happened the same way here, the dept just arbitrarily decided one day to make this medic shave.  He said no and the argument ensued.  Good for these guys for sticking up for themselves and refusing to be tied up in red tape.


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## rescuecpt (Aug 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuejew_@Aug 16 2005, 10:36 PM
> * I work with a muslim guy who is devout and does not shave his beard...there are other peices of equipment that can be purchased that keep him from, what was it that someone said??  Oh yeah..."riding a desk"  Hes a great medic, our service would be of less calibre without him.  PC has its place, seeing as how, I myself, just filed a race-discrimination complaint.  If its ridiculous, fine, its ridiculous.  BUT, if you arent a minority, you have NO IDEA how it feels to be treated differently, and how sensitive you may become as a result. *


 I'm not a minority by standard definition, but as a white, blonde haired female, I get discriminated against ALL the time.  I constantly have to prove that I'm not an idiot and I know what I'm talking about.


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## rescuecpt (Aug 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuejew_@Aug 17 2005, 08:18 PM
> * Jon: The FFs may not have grown a beard after they were hired, it may have been a new policy instituted by the dept.  Happened the same way here, the dept just arbitrarily decided one day to make this medic shave.  He said no and the argument ensued.  Good for these guys for sticking up for themselves and refusing to be tied up in red tape. *


 The beard thing in the FD SHOULD have been in place for a long time - not sure if that's the case - but it's a safety issue for the fit of the masks for FFs, for EMTs I don't see as much of a risk, although when I do the HEPA N-95 fit tests it is recommended that people are fitted without a beard or with a neatly trimmed beard to get the closest fit.


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## Jon (Aug 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuecpt_@Aug 19 2005, 08:47 AM
> * I constantly have to prove that I'm not an idiot and I know what I'm talking about. *


 You aren't???? You do????
 :lol:    :lol:


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## Jon (Aug 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuejew_@Aug 17 2005, 09:18 PM
> * Jon: The FFs may not have grown a beard after they were hired, it may have been a new policy instituted by the dept.  Happened the same way here, the dept just arbitrarily decided one day to make this medic shave.  He said no and the argument ensued.  Good for these guys for sticking up for themselves and refusing to be tied up in red tape. *


 Philly is the nation's oldest FD.... my understanding is that is has been the rule for years and years...


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