# Medics upset over Long Beach pilot deployment plan



## Amberlamps916 (Aug 18, 2014)

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/firefighters-631681-beach-duree.html


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## gonefishing (Aug 18, 2014)

Politics, politics,  Politics.lol


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## samiam (Aug 18, 2014)

Yea I don't really get this. Seems to be really undermining the capabilities of the emt"s also dont most systems have one emt one paramedic? Seems like it is a good idea to spread the skill around. Its not like they are tossing the emt a hose and telling him to go put out a fire. There needs to be ems on scene of a fire and most places that is not fd ems.


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## avdrummerboy (Aug 19, 2014)

Perhaps it's time CA, LACo in particular, to let EMT's do what they trained to do! The super limited scope out here, no wonder they worry about EMT's being 'let loose.'


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## gonefishing (Aug 19, 2014)

avdrummerboy said:


> Perhaps it's time CA, LACo in particular, to let EMT's do what they trained to do! The super limited scope out here, no wonder they worry about EMT's being 'let loose.'


We can't have that! That means higher wages and more respect! we have to stick to the standards of 1978 Johnny & Roy.


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## avdrummerboy (Aug 19, 2014)

Haha, true, maybe it'll make us worth $9 an hour now, at my company anyway!!


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## gonefishing (Aug 19, 2014)

avdrummerboy said:


> Haha, true, maybe it'll make us worth $9 an hour now, at my company anyway!!


Well if you look at the wages of 1997 you will see the wages have not really changed at all.  Some emts were making $9.00 an hour already.lol


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## gonefishing (Aug 19, 2014)

Heres something to consider.  Long Beach used bowers ambulance for a really long time up until 1998 or so for everything until fire took over.  Santa Monica the same thing private medic and an emt.  Bakersfield does this to this day.  1 emt 1 paramedic and they are not fire fighters.  It freakin works! Imagine that! LOL


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## MrJones (Aug 19, 2014)

It is long past time for EMS to be separated from the Fire Service.


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## Jim37F (Aug 19, 2014)

gonefishing said:


> Heres something to consider.  Long Beach used bowers ambulance for a really long time up until 1998 or so for everything until fire took over.  Santa Monica the same thing private medic and an emt.  Bakersfield does this to this day.  1 emt 1 paramedic and they are not fire fighters.  It freakin works! Imagine that! LOL



Actually Santa Monica uses private BLS ambulance with Paramedic Engine companies that are in charge of the calls


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## gonefishing (Aug 19, 2014)

Jim37F said:


> Actually Santa Monica uses private BLS ambulance with Paramedic Engine companies that are in charge of the calls


I ment in the past before fire did anything ems.


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## Jim37F (Aug 19, 2014)

Ah ok, I must've misread, thought you meant nowadays...


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## gonefishing (Aug 19, 2014)

Jim37F said:


> Ah ok, I must've misread, thought you meant nowadays...


I'm just trying to show its been done, is being done and is manageable.   The public in LA and its county though are so misinformed about emt's to the point that you are just an ambulance driver private medics are not real paramedics.   If your wearing banana pants and full turn out gear to every call and drive a big red truck your a real emt or paramedic.lol


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## atropine (Aug 24, 2014)

So this pilot program will probably work out just fine and open the flood gates to 1-1 here in LA Co. time for changes, I think I will call it quits next year 16 years in, but change is good. This works everywhere else and it should just work just fine here.


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## OnceAnEMT (Aug 24, 2014)

> Firefighters say such calls illustrate how sworn firefighter paramedics are being tied up with nonlife-threatening situations that could be handled by civilian EMTs under an experimental new staffing model. The Long Beach Firefighters Association said the change could potentially lead to slower response times for more critical calls requiring a highly trained medic.





> The firefighters association said its chief concern is that when an ambulance is called out to a critical situation, a paramedic will arrive with a civilian EMT, who is less expensive but also receives less training.



Mad respect for Fire Medics, really. But there is an ET tube up someone's *** here. ie, "sworn vs civilian" and an SI Pt being a "non-life threatening situation".


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 27, 2014)

This county really needs to not handcuff departments in these hard financial times. Allow all these assessment engines/trucks to transport and give them a full drug box.


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## gonefishing (Aug 27, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> This county really needs to not handcuff departments in these hard financial times. Allow all these assessment engines/trucks to transport and give them a full drug box.


Only problem is that's money.  I don't get why big red has to show up to every call? Most calls me and my partner are able to handle vs 8 fireman standing around doing nothing.


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 27, 2014)

gonefishing said:


> Only problem is that's money.  I don't get why big red has to show up to every call? Most calls me and my partner are able to handle vs 8 fireman standing around doing nothing.


I know it's a money thing. I'm saying what's the point of having medics on assessment engines and trucks when they can't transport. If the patient is ALS then they call a dual medic unit. This now ties up two resources. If we can get to just one medic for transports then we add more als transport capability.


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## TransportJockey (Aug 27, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> This county really needs to not handcuff departments in these hard financial times. Allow all these assessment engines/trucks to transport and give them a full drug box.


Please tell me you're kidding. How do you propose that a non-transport capable unit like a ladder, engine, quint, or squad transport? Buy something huge and ridiculous like a Braun Patriot? Because that will cost much more money than they're losing by not transporting. Besides, it's been well shown that most urban areas 911 is not a large money maker. Most for-profit agencies make their money on transfers.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 27, 2014)

Or FD could just send ambulances to ambulance calls rather than a huge truck that gets crap for gas mileage and end up with thousands of unneeded miles which jacks up the cost of maintenance and premature replacement.

Also...for what most fire medics make they need to cut the whining out. 

Edited to redact the last paragraph so as to not create the butt-hurt...


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## gonefishing (Aug 27, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> Or FD could just send ambulances to ambulance calls rather than a huge truck that gets crap for gas mileage and end up with thousands of unneeded miles which jacks up the cost of maintenance and premature replacement.
> 
> Also...for what most fire medics make they need to cut the whining out.
> 
> Edited to redact the last paragraph so as to not create the butt-hurt...


Because they are fireman dang it! Banana pants demands respect.


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 27, 2014)

TransportJockey said:


> Please tell me you're kidding. How do you propose that a non-transport capable unit like a ladder, engine, quint, or squad transport? Buy something huge and ridiculous like a Braun Patriot? Because that will cost much more money than they're losing by not transporting. Besides, it's been well shown that most urban areas 911 is not a large money maker. Most for-profit agencies make their money on transfers.


Patients in the ladder buckets. Duh...  

No, for long beach if they don't have a RA available, then they dispatch the BLS unit along with the engine/truck and that medic now turns that unit into an ALS rig.


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## gonefishing (Aug 27, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> Patients in the ladder buckets. Duh...
> 
> No, for long beach if they don't have a RA available, then they dispatch the BLS unit along with the engine/truck and that medic now turns that unit into an ALS rig.


Why not just dump ems and go back to private service? One medic and one emt? Do smart dispatching and sipher calls.  TC gets a rescue and big red.  Drunk, diabetic emergency gets a rescue..... MI gets a rescue.  Meanwhile big reds at home and everyone doesn't have to leave the recliner.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 27, 2014)

gonefishing said:


> Because they are fireman dang it! Banana pants demands respect.



Hahaha you got to it before I edited it.

Was it in this thread that someone said we should start calling it EMS-based Fire rather than Fire-based EMS? 

I like that idea lol. The IAFF would probably have an MI and pop an aneurysm at the same time, while also having steam come out of their ears.


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## TransportJockey (Aug 27, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> Hahaha you got to it before I edited it.
> 
> Was it in this thread that someone said we should start calling it EMS-based Fire rather than Fire-based EMS?
> 
> *I like that idea lol. The IAFF would probably have an MI and pop an aneurysm at the same time, while also having steam come out of their ears.*



You say that like it's a bad thing lol


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## gonefishing (Aug 27, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> Hahaha you got to it before I edited it.
> 
> Was it in this thread that someone said we should start calling it EMS-based Fire rather than Fire-based EMS?
> 
> I like that idea lol. The IAFF would probably have an MI and pop an aneurysm at the same time, while also having steam come out of their ears.


Now, now, sleeping, eating, reclining for over $70k a year is hard work! You gotta put out a dumpster fire every once in a while and puting on all that turn out gear for a medical call works up a sweat!

Private medics and emts street posting, running the call and decon is nothing compared to what a fireman has to go through! The fireman strugges! Thank god for the IAFF!


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 28, 2014)

gonefishing said:


> Now, now, sleeping, eating, reclining for over $70k a year is hard work! You gotta put out a dumpster fire every once in a while and puting on all that turn out gear for a medical call works up a sweat!
> 
> Private medics and emts street posting, running the call and decon is nothing compared to what a fireman has to go through! The fireman strugges! Thank god for the IAFF!


Why pay fire that when you can pay an emt 10 an hour or a medic 13 an hour! 

I know rehashing the fire ems vs private ems will go no where, but let's pose a question. What's an adequate salary for a paramedic?  30k a year? 50? What?


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## TransportJockey (Aug 28, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> Why pay fire that when you can pay an emt 10 an hour or a medic 13 an hour!
> 
> I know rehashing the fire ems vs private ems will go no where, but let's pose a question. What's an adequate salary for a paramedic?  30k a year? 50? What?


A lot of that is wholly dependant on cost of living in the area. I make 48k in Texas which is great even with my commute and me living in NM. But that wouldn't go nearly as far in LA or NYC. Plus with the glut of providers and the barriers to entry being so low, why should they pay us anymore? They're people lining up for someone to quit so they can take that low paying job. Not to mention in some places people do it for free!


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## gonefishing (Aug 28, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> Why pay fire that when you can pay an emt 10 an hour or a medic 13 an hour!
> 
> I know rehashing the fire ems vs private ems will go no where, but let's pose a question. What's an adequate salary for a paramedic?  30k a year? 50? What?


Depends.lol. if hes got the IAFF skys the limit.  If hes private depends on your employer.  Average so. Cal wage is 34k plus and that number is a 40hour work week.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 28, 2014)

I base at 50k with no state taxes only federal and while I live comfortably I don't feel like I'm paid enough especially when the county fire medics, cities are ILS, make like 80k and run maybe half the calls we do in a 12 in a 48 at all but one of their stations. 

I understand the concept of having to be dual certified and I respect it. I'm not necessarily saying the salaries should be equal but there shouldn't be such a dramatic difference. 

And sorry I wasn't gonna say anything but 30k a year as a medic? Is that a joke? Our Intermediates start at like 32-33k/year.


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 28, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> Why pay fire that when you can pay an emt 10 an hour or a medic 13 an hour!
> 
> I know rehashing the fire ems vs private ems will go no where, but let's pose a question. What's an adequate salary for a paramedic?  30k a year? 50? What?


They are paramedics, right?  So is 70k a year a fair salary for a paramedic that also has to fight the occasional fire?  

Now I totally agree with the issue that an inadequate amount of a fire/medic's training is spent on ems.  That's for sure something that has to change. Maybe we can have the IAFF address that.


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## gonefishing (Aug 28, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> I base at 50k with no state taxes only federal and while I live comfortably I don't feel like I'm paid enough especially when the county fire medics, cities are ILS, make like 80k and run maybe half the calls we do in a 12 in a 48 at all but one of their stations.
> 
> I understand the concept of having to be dual certified and I respect it. I'm not necessarily saying the salaries should be equal but there shouldn't be such a dramatic difference.
> 
> And sorry I wasn't gonna say anything but 30k a year as a medic? Is that a joke? Our Intermediates start at like 32-33k/year.


Thats the solid truth.  Some make under that.  Alot of basics make $9.00hour and our state minimum wage just went to $9.00! No employer raised it above that either.  EMT vs flipping burgers at in n out for $12 hour with benefits.  It's not worth it and nobody is saying a thing!


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 28, 2014)

gonefishing said:


> Thats the solid truth.  Some make under that.  Alot of basics make $9.00hour and our state minimum wage just went to $9.00! No employer raised it above that either.  EMT vs flipping burgers at in n out for $12 hour with benefits.  It's not worth it and nobody is saying a thing!


While I was at a major So Cal provider I was only making 20k a year if I didn't work overtime. 


Handsome Robb said:


> I base at 50k with no state taxes only federal and while I live comfortably I don't feel like I'm paid enough especially when the county fire medics, cities are ILS, make like 80k and run maybe half the calls we do in a 12 in a 48 at all but one of their stations.
> 
> I understand the concept of having to be dual certified and I respect it. I'm not necessarily saying the salaries should be equal but there shouldn't be such a dramatic difference.
> 
> And sorry I wasn't gonna say anything but 30k a year as a medic? Is that a joke? Our Intermediates start at like 32-33k/year.


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## gonefishing (Aug 28, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> While I was at a major So Cal provider I was only making 20k a year if I didn't work overtime.


Thats alot of people and still the same.  In order to survive in L.A. you need to be making around $2k plus.  Thats just to meet rent lol


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## Uclabruin103 (Aug 28, 2014)

TransportJockey said:


> A lot of that is wholly dependant on cost of living in the area. I make 48k in Texas which is great even with my commute and me living in NM. But that wouldn't go nearly as far in LA or NYC. Plus with the glut of providers and the barriers to entry being so low, why should they pay us anymore? They're people lining up for someone to quit so they can take that low paying job. Not to mention in some places people do it for free!


I was just talking about what an adequate southern California salary is. I know I could move anywhere else in the country and make more, but I kind of like seeing my family. I'm very much a work to live type person and not a work to live.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 28, 2014)

Alright I'll stop *****ing...our cost of living is right at the national average. My 3 bed 2 bath house on .3 acres in a decent neighborhood is 1375/month.


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## gonefishing (Aug 28, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> Alright I'll stop *****ing...our cost of living is right at the national average. My 3 bed 2 bath house on .3 acres in a decent neighborhood is 1375/month.


Haha thats cheap!
  At $1238 thats total for a 40 hour work week for a basic after tax per month.  A common studio goes for $900 that leaves you with $338 now increase that by .30 cents for a year raise lol welcome to the sad reality.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 28, 2014)

That's pretty sad, I make more than double that monthly on disability. Granted I'm stuck in my house by myself right now since I kicked my old housemate out so I get the full rent plus utilities and don't have much left after that.


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## gonefishing (Aug 28, 2014)

Handsome Robb said:


> That's pretty sad, I make more than double that monthly on disability. Granted I'm stuck in my house by myself right now since I kicked my old housemate out so I get the full rent plus utilities and don't have much left after that.


Try raising a kid on that.


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 28, 2014)

gonefishing said:


> Try raising a kid on that.



Negative ghostrider...no kids. Kids mean I couldn't spend money on toys!


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