# Religion and the star of life.



## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 26, 2008)

Question for those that might know the bible better than I.
The very first ems job I worked when I was 16 was for a born again Christian and on the arm patch of our uniforms was two quotes from the bible regarding where the snake and staff came from.
I want to say John something was one but I’d love to know what the two were. I tried tracking the guy down but they have been long out of business. 
Back then I looked it up and read about it and have to say it was an interesting read.


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## lcope (Mar 26, 2008)

Pittsburgh Proud said:


> Question for those that might know the bible better than I.
> The very first ems job I worked when I was 16 was for a born again Christian and on the arm patch of our uniforms was two quotes from the bible regarding where the snake and staff came from.
> I want to say John something was one but I’d love to know what the two were. I tried tracking the guy down but they have been long out of business.
> Back then I looked it up and read about it and have to say it was an interesting read.



Was it this verse?

Numbers 21:4-9  _They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!"

Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people. 

The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived._


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## jrm818 (Mar 26, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius


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## paramedix (Mar 26, 2008)

I have never looked at the SOL like that before. I didnt even really thought at had a much wider meaning to it. 

Thanx _Pittsburgh Proud_... excellent post...


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 26, 2008)

Actually the Star of Life serpent has *NO* association with any religion.

..._"The Star of Life is the symbol representing Emergency Medical Technicians. Both the American Medical Association and the Advisory Council within the Department of Health and Human Services encourage this symbols use. The symbol's six-barred cross represents the six-system function of the EMS: Detection; Reporting; Response; On Scene Care; Care in Transit; Transfer to Definitive Care. *The staff in the center of the symbol represents medicine and healing. According to Greek mythology, the staff belonged to Asclepius, the son of Apollo (god of light, truth, and prophecy). Asclepius supposedly learned the art of healing from the Centaur Cheiron. But he elicited the wrath of the god Zeus when he started resurrecting people from the dead. Fearful that Asclepius' knowledge might render mankind immortal; Zeus slew Asclepius with a thunderbolt. Eventually Zeus restored Asclepius to life, making him a god. Asclepius is usually shown in a standing position, dressed in a long cloak and holding a staff with a curative serpent coiled around it, an image that Zeus later set among the starts. Worshippers used to sleep in Asclepius' temples in the belief that Asclepius cured the sick during their dreams*_".....


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## lcope (Mar 26, 2008)

Why not go straight to the source for an answer?  

Check out more info on the Star of Life at http://www.ems.gov/.

Click on "Star of Life Manual" at the bottom right of the page.  Page 4 references Asclepius, the god of medicine, from Greek mythology as well as Moses of the Bible.


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## seanm028 (Mar 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Actually the Star of Life serpent has *NO* association with any religion.



It may not be associated with religion anymore, but it certainly was derived from religion and therefore has a historical association.  You can believe that the staff and snake came from Moses in the Old Testament or from Asclepius in Greek Mythology; either way, it's religion based.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 26, 2008)

seanm028 said:


> It may not be associated with religion anymore, but it certainly was derived from religion and therefore has a historical association.  You can believe that the staff and snake came from Moses in the Old Testament or from Asclepius in Greek Mythology; either way, it's religion based.



I agree, but it religion was not considered for the symbol. 

R/r 911


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## Jon (Mar 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> seanm028 said:
> 
> 
> > It may not be associated with religion anymore, but it certainly was derived from religion and therefore has a historical association. You can believe that the staff and snake came from Moses in the Old Testament or from Asclepius in Greek Mythology; either way, it's religion based.
> ...


Almost...the snake/staff combo has been associated with physicians for so many years, so it was natural to include it in the symbol for EMS.

However.. I believe that the Rod of Aesculapius is deeply rooted in religion... but is it greek mythoogy, the Judeo/Christian bible, or something else? Or is it both? Or are they one and the same?
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 26, 2008)

lcope said:


> Was it this verse?
> 
> Numbers 21:4-9  _They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!"
> 
> ...




*Heck it has been almost 25 years ago , this sounds right but there where defiantly two verses. This sure sound like the one.*



paramedix said:


> I have never looked at the SOL like that before. I didnt even really thought at had a much wider meaning to it.
> 
> Thanx _Pittsburgh Proud_... excellent post...


*Interesting relatively save religious type of topic to talk about, It  was cool to read and hear about back then.*



Ridryder911 said:


> Actually the Star of Life serpent has *NO* association with any religion.
> 
> ..._"The Star of Life is the symbol representing Emergency Medical Technicians. Both the American Medical Association and the Advisory Council within the Department of Health and Human Services encourage this symbols use. The symbol's six-barred cross represents the six-system function of the EMS: Detection; Reporting; Response; On Scene Care; Care in Transit; Transfer to Definitive Care. *The staff in the center of the symbol represents medicine and healing. According to Greek mythology, the staff belonged to Asclepius, the son of Apollo (god of light, truth, and prophecy). Asclepius supposedly learned the art of healing from the Centaur Cheiron. But he elicited the wrath of the god Zeus when he started resurrecting people from the dead. Fearful that Asclepius' knowledge might render mankind immortal; Zeus slew Asclepius with a thunderbolt. Eventually Zeus restored Asclepius to life, making him a god. Asclepius is usually shown in a standing position, dressed in a long cloak and holding a staff with a curative serpent coiled around it, an image that Zeus later set among the starts. Worshippers used to sleep in Asclepius' temples in the belief that Asclepius cured the sick during their dreams*_".....


*Now this was interesting to hear, this one I have never heard about. Thanks for sharing that aspect or that side to think about.*


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 26, 2008)

lcope said:


> Why not go straight to the source for an answer?
> 
> Check out more info on the Star of Life at http://www.ems.gov/.
> 
> Click on "Star of Life Manual" at the bottom right of the page.  Page 4 references Asclepius, the god of medicine, from Greek mythology as well as Moses of the Bible.



Cool link, thanks... B) Apparently there could be two story's to this.


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## JPINFV (Mar 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Actually the Star of Life serpent has *NO* association with any religion.
> 
> ..._" *According to Greek mythology, the staff belonged to Asclepius, the son of Apollo (god of light, truth, and prophecy). *_".....



Greek mythology isn't a religion? It has a lot of the same properties that modern religions contain [creation story, gods, supernatural beings, miracles, etc], or is this more of a mythology [once mainstream, but no longer] vs cult [never was/not is mainstream] vs established religion [Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Taoism, etc] distinction?


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 26, 2008)

The other verse just might be Numbers 21: 4 to 9 


 The Bronze Snake


 4 They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, [c] to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5 they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!"

 6 Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.

 8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.



The guy I worked for had these verses (two of them) on each side of the company arm patch.


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 26, 2008)

Pittsburgh Proud said:


> The other verse just might be Numbers 21: 4 to 9
> 
> 
> The Bronze Snake
> ...



Darn grabbed the same one......Phooey


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## eggshen (Mar 27, 2008)

JPINFV? Ummmm WORD.

Egg


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Apr 12, 2008)

Just found this.... B)


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## wolfwyndd (Apr 25, 2008)

Greek mythology predates Christianity by . . . . oh, at least several hundred years.  So while the bible verses my be applied to the Star of Life, it's not the origin.


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## mikie (Apr 25, 2008)

I'm all for keeping religion out of EMS

but very interesting thread!


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## JPINFV (Apr 25, 2008)

wolfwyndd said:


> Greek mythology predates Christianity by . . . . oh, at least several hundred years.  So while the bible verses my be applied to the Star of Life, it's not the origin.



Well, to be honest, Exodus itself predates Christianity with the events being considered by historians to have happened sometime between 1580 BC to 1215 BC while Greek Mythology is from 900-800 BC.* So it could very well be the original source. 

Date for sources are from Wikipedia. Exodus dates are directly referenced whereas the Greek Mythology is considered a "featured article," which by criteria, is properly sourced and well written.


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## BossyCow (Apr 25, 2008)

mikie333 said:


> I'm all for keeping religion out of EMS
> 
> but very interesting thread!



A religious person is going to incorporate that religion into what they do, be it wash the dog or work in EMS. It's a personal thing.


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## firecoins (Apr 25, 2008)

Greek mythology was a religion of the ancient greeks.  

Exodus is the first book of the Torah.   Judiasm predates christianity.


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## mikie (Apr 25, 2008)

firecoins said:


> Judiasm predates christianity.



Damn straight we do!


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## Jeremy89 (Apr 25, 2008)

firecoins said:


> Judiasm predates christianity.



Until Jesus decided to form what is today's Catholic Church...

"You are Peter, and on this rock I build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).


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## JPINFV (Apr 25, 2008)

Jeremy89 said:


> Until Jesus decided to form what is today's Catholic Church...
> 
> "You are Peter, and on this rock I build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).



So? That does nothing to show that Judiasm predates Christianity. Besides, Jesus was a Jew.


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## firecoins (Apr 25, 2008)

The Old Testament represents the Holy Jewish book.


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## mikie (Apr 26, 2008)

firecoins said:


> The Old Testament represents the Holy Jewish book.



Brady's Prehospital Emergency Care 7e is (well, was) my holy book.


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## firecoins (Apr 26, 2008)

mikie333 said:


> Brady's Prehospital Emergency Care 7e is (well, was) my holy book.



Brady is THE Good Book.


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## Jeremy89 (Apr 26, 2008)

We used Brady 10ed, but the guys at Brady were too cheap to include up to date pictures...therefore we have the 70's style cop cars in the background, along with the handheld radio with the 2-foot antenna...  We got some good laughs out of it though.


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## firecoins (Apr 26, 2008)

Jeremy89 said:


> We used Brady 10ed, but the guys at Brady were too cheap to include up to date pictures...therefore we have the 70's style cop cars in the background, along with the handheld radio with the 2-foot antenna...  We got some good laughs out of it though.



Our ambulances were horse drawn.


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## emtwannabe (Apr 27, 2008)

Our ambulances were two guys toting the injured off to the chop shop....


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## Firesurfer75 (Apr 27, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Actually the Star of Life serpent has *NO* association with any religion.




Copied directly from Wikipedia:

*There are several different theories as to the origin and development of the rod of Asclepius, any or all of which may have contributed to its development.* The symbol is named for an ancient Greek legend, although the legend could be older.


_Greek mythology_
According to Greek mythology, Asclepius was said to have learned the art of healing from Chiron. He is customarily represented as a surgeon on the ship Argo. Asclepius was so skilled in the medical arts that he was reputed to have brought patients back from the dead. For this he was punished and placed in the heavens as the constellation Ophiuchus (meaning "serpent-bearer"). This constellation lies between Sagittarius and Libra.[2] In early Christianity, the constellation Ophiuchus was associated with Saint Paul holding the Maltese Viper.


_"Worm" theory_
Some scholars have suggested that the symbol once represented a worm wrapped around a rod; parasitic worms such as the "guinea worm" (Dracunculus medinensis) were common in ancient times, and were extracted from beneath the skin by winding them slowly around a stick. Physicians may have advertised this common service by posting a sign depicting a worm on a rod.[3]

_Biblical_
A similar symbol, Nehushtan, is mentioned in the Bible in Numbers 21:4–9. Attacked by a plague of snakes in the wilderness, Moses holds up a serpent coiled around a staff, both made from bronze, so that the Israelites might recover from the bites.[4]



Nothing states that EXACTLY where it came from. I prefer the Biblical version personally.


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