# Credit score



## GusD EMT (Oct 30, 2011)

Hey guys I hope that everyone is doing good. Well I have a couple of question?
1. why do EMT ambulance company look at your credit score 
2. Will they hire anyone with bad or some what bad credit 
3. what companies check your credit score?


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## Flight-LP (Oct 30, 2011)

Most companies are not going to check your credit score. If in question, contact your prospective agencies and ask them.


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## Shishkabob (Oct 30, 2011)

GusD EMT said:


> Hey guys I hope that everyone is doing good. Well I have a couple of question?
> 1. why do EMT ambulance company look at your credit score
> 2. Will they hire anyone with bad or some what bad credit
> 3. what companies check your credit score?



If you can't show responsibility with your own money, how are you to show responsibility with peoples lives, really expensive equipment, or even the company's money?


Maybe, maybe not.  That's a question for your prospective company.


Considering there are thousands of agencies, it's crazy to think we can name who will or will not.


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## Sasha (Oct 30, 2011)

I have awful credit. I was young and stupid and had a bit of a rough patch. I am a hell of a provider, so I'm told.

My credit score was never checked. I can't think of a single service I applied or worked for who checked credit scores. Especially with the economy in shambles I don't think anyone will hold it against you.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## MedicBender (Oct 30, 2011)

I know most county services around here check them. I'm not sure if it's more of a corruptibility thing or responsibility thing. I have never heard of someone getting turned down due to their credit score though


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## usalsfyre (Oct 30, 2011)

Most of the time it's not an actual credit check, it's a "consumer report" used to verify employment.


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## MMiz (Oct 30, 2011)

1.  A credit score can be used to help determine if you're a responsible person.  Especially in the finance industry, employers want to make sure that you were fiscally responsible.

2.  Fortunately for you, many people I know in EMS, and many not in EMS, have horrible credit.  Like anything, it may be one piece of a total equation used decide your compatibility with a service.

3.  I find that many municipal/government agencies check credit score as part of their process, and that it isn't as prevalent in private EMS.

Maintaining a good credit score is important.  Fortunately it's a dynamic record, and the decisions you make _today_ will impact your overall score.  Ultimately you're the one that controls it.  

Good luck!


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## 18G (Oct 30, 2011)

Linuss said:


> If you can't show responsibility with your own money, how are you to show responsibility with peoples lives, really expensive equipment, or even the company's money?
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.  That's a question for your prospective company.
> ...



My opinion is that a credit rating does not reflect a person's level of responsibility or even accountability. There are so many variables that come into play at different points of a persons life that can destroy a credit rating. And none of those variables indicates how an EMT or Paramedic is going to perform, take care of equipment, or be as a person in general.  

Many people go through rough times and decide to go to school so that they can get a better job and start to have more money and pay their bills. Why should they be penalized for taking corrective action in their life? 

I agree with Sasha... I made some really bad financial decisions when I was younger and that has no bearing on how I am now. A credit rating doesn't improve at the same rate it declines either. 

I have never heard of an EMS or Fire company checking a credit report.


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## Cawolf86 (Oct 30, 2011)

Around here (SoCal) most public jobs PD/FD will include credit history as part of the backgrounds invetigation. Private companies generally don't - just a normal background that will not bring up if you have a score of 450 or 700.


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## dstevens58 (Oct 30, 2011)

A lot of public agencies, including law enforcement (and I guess it can be fire/EMS) can come under scrutiny at times.  

You hear of the occasional FF/EMT/LEO taking personal possessions of patients and that not only makes news, but brings bad light on a company.  Again, you hear the bad things in the news, rarely you hear about a good job done well.

I know the military will deny certain jobs and security clearances from someone has a history of financial indebtedness, because of the possibility they can be bribed.  

On the flip side of things, I've never heard of anyone being denied a job because they have previously been irresponsible with their finances.


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## BrushBunny91 (Oct 30, 2011)

18G said:


> My opinion is that a credit rating does not reflect a person's level of responsibility or even accountability. There are so many variables that come into play at different points of a persons life that can destroy a credit rating. And none of those variables indicates how an EMT or Paramedic is going to perform, take care of equipment, or be as a person in general.
> 
> Many people go through rough times and decide to go to school so that they can get a better job and start to have more money and pay their bills. Why should they be penalized for taking corrective action in their life?
> 
> ...



From what I understand many departments in San Bernardino county do ask for a credit report along with a polygraph test.


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## atropine (Oct 31, 2011)

I think credit scores are a great way for many lucrative agencies to weed out the comp. I know many recruits who have failed out of backgrounds because of there credit score, and hundreds of more applicants ready and willing to take there place.


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

atropine said:


> I think credit scores are a great way for many lucrative agencies to weed out the comp. I know many recruits who have failed out of backgrounds because of there credit score, and hundreds of more applicants ready and willing to take there place.



I think there are much better methods to be utilized to "weed out" potential EMS employees other than a credit score. Someone with a credit score of 700 isn't going to be any better of a Paramedic then a person with a score of 400. 

It's really along the same lines as using relationship history as a method of determining employment. For example, someone who is married for ten years, has two kids, and appears happy as can be, will make a better employee than someone who has been divorced twice and is in and out of relationships. An employer could take the divorced person and think to themselves, "wow, this person must be a real a*sshole, dishonest in the relationship, never does what they say, etc, etc, etc... hmm... do we want this person working for us?". And that is so BS. And to me it is along the same lines as using a credit history to help determine how a person will be as an EMS provider. The only difference is credit histories are tracked and obtainable.   

And further, a lot of people go to college to get an education so that they can get better jobs so that they can start to pay their bills and be more financially grounded which improves credit scores. If an employer is going to deny them a job based on a credit score, how is that a service to anyone?

Is there any study out there that gives weight to employers using a credit report to determine a potential employee's character and work ethic?


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

As a small business owner, a credit report can save me a LOT of headache. If you have leans, judgements, wage garnishments, etc.....I just may pass on you for an equally suitable candidate. It is my prerogative to do so regardless of how great you are...as I seriously do not want to deal with the extra issues.

Time is money and every hour I spend addressing an employee's financial issues is time not spent on more important things which costs me a lot of money. This can really add up fast and take a toll on a small business owner.


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> As a small business owner, a credit report can save me a LOT of headache. If you have leans, judgements, wage garnishments, etc.....I just may pass on you for an equally suitable candidate. It is my prerogative to do so regardless of how great you are...as I seriously do not want to deal with the extra issues.
> 
> Time is money and every hour I spend addressing an employee's financial issues is time not spent on more important things which costs me a lot of money. This can really add up fast and take a toll on a small business owner.



So you wouldn't hire someone who pay's child support either? Because it takes too much time to write a check and send it to the State Disbursement Office?


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

I have the option to not do so...you are correct.

I am not the welfare system here, I have a small business to run and until you are in that position you can not appreciate the full scope of maximizing the use of every single minute.

So yes, if I have two equally qualified candidates and one has child support which is going to cause me problems and extra time/resources, I will take a pass.

I am not here for them, I am here for myself and my business.

My obligations are for my current staff and my business and I have to scrutinize every situation to make sure I am doing the best I can by all involved.


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> I have the option to not do so...you are correct.
> 
> I am not the welfare system here, I have a small business to run and until you are in that position you can not appreciate the full scope of maximizing the use of every single minute.
> 
> ...



Child support has nothing to do with welfare. 

As a business owner, how do you have knowledge of who pay's child support and who doesn't prior to hiring them? When doing payroll, does the 5mins it takes to write a check, place it in an envelope with a stamp, and put it in the mail box really take away from your bottom line?  Heck, be like my employer and charge a fee for doing the deduction (as much as I feel that is unfair). 

Personally, I don't feel that is being a good small business owner when you don't hire people who work and support their kids, but whatever... I more than likely would avoid a small business who I knew would not hire someone who paid child support. To me that doesn't say much about the business/employer. 

And seeing how the family dynamic has changed dramatically and the number of people who pay child support is growing, you are really limiting yourself from tapping into a pool of great candidates to work for your business. If your expecting society to conform to you, good luck with that. 

But what do I know!


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

I did not say child support was welfare, I stated I am not welfare...meaning it is not my responsibility to look after people's personal affairs. I am to compare and evaluate similar candidates and if one is easier to manage over time than another, then that is a factor in the hiring decision...like it or not, that is business.

I did not say I had knowledge of their affairs, I stated that if a credit report shows judgements, leans, etc then I would take a pass...it was you who presented the child support question as a relevant tangent. If I do not have that knowledge before hand, obviously I cannot factor it in.

Your lack of experience and knowledge oversimplifies the process. You make the same assumption many employees make about anything they deem small. Constantly stating how much time does it take to do xyz or why is this not done this way when all it is is something as small as xyz negates all the other factors which go into that process. Not having the big picture is a very common yet annoying occurrence amongst employees which we (business owners) simply have to deal with. Admittedly I made similar assumptions until I became one.

The talent pool actually is not that limited so do not get overly concerned about my prospects.

Small business practices are delicate and one poor choice can devastate and near destroy said business. I have already been in that situation and was very lucky. I absolutely would work for someone who watched every financial move to ensure my work environment was safe and my pay was secure--especially in today's environment.


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> I did not say child support was welfare, I stated I am not welfare...meaning it is not my responsibility to look after people's personal affairs. I am to compare and evaluate similar candidates and if one is easier to manage over time than another, then that is a factor in the hiring decision...like it or not, that is business.
> 
> I did not say I had knowledge of their affairs, I stated that if a credit report shows judgements, leans, etc then I would take a pass...it was you who presented the child support question as a relevant tangent. If I do not have that knowledge before hand, obviously I cannot factor it in.
> 
> ...



While not a business owner, I do realize that resources are much smaller and understand that more careful planning need's to happen to ensure time is best utilized to keep things going smoothly. I am not completely ignorant to that fact. 

I was just trying to say that people who are well qualified for a position should not be looked over because they work to support their kids or have made poor financial decisions at some point in their life. 

Sure, things may be going good for some now, but that doesn't mean they will always be good. When your the separated or divorced parent or the one who loses a job and takes a big hit on the credit report, maybe the thinking and understanding will be a bit different. It doesn't hurt a business to be a little empathetic. 

An employer/employee relationship isn't a one way street. The employer has a direct responsibility to the employee and needs to understand personal and family issues. Believe me, I have seen companies who don't consider personal lives of their employees and they are horrible places to work.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

Why should they not be overlooked--because they had kids or made poor financial decisions and now it is up to me--a private business owner who risked everything to start up an operation and struggles to survive once open---and now it is MY issue to take on extra expense for others situations when I have an equally qualified candidate who has none of those issues??

Remember I am a liberal but where does the kindness cease? You keep relating this to one employee but let us increase it. What if it is half my staff, what if it is 75% of my staff. How much time am I exerting now for those with these issues? How much is it costing me? Now I have to implement tracking systems and more accounting procedures. What about when there are issues with the government agency I am mailing to? Now I spend more time fixing those issues too? Then I have the employee calling or visiting and wasting more time as well...it all compounds.

And again, I stated if I have 2 equally qualified candidates, financial concerns will be a factor.

I have been dirt poor and I have suffered through several sudden job losses. I worked hard to put together my business and I going to do what it takes to ensure it survives as that is an obligation to my family first, employees second. And it is along those lines that I have to be selective about who comes along next as it takes away from those who have already been there.

Addressing the one way street comment at the end of your post...

Remember, they are not employees yet. We are discussing pre hire...I have total understanding of issues which occur after I agree to take them on, but if I can mitigate my risks pre-hire...it will be done.


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> Why should they not be overlooked--because they had kids or made poor financial decisions and now it is up to me--a private business owner who risked everything to start up an operation and struggles to survive once open---and now it is MY issue to take on extra expense for others situations when I have an equally qualified candidate who has none of those issues??
> 
> Remember I am a liberal but where does the kindness cease? You keep relating this to one employee but let us increase it. What if it is half my staff, what if it is 75% of my staff. How much time am I exerting now for those with these issues? How much is it costing me? Now I have to implement tracking systems and more accounting procedures. What about when there are issues with the government agency I am mailing to? Now I spend more time fixing those issues too? Then I have the employee calling or visiting and wasting more time as well...it all compounds.
> 
> ...



Every business has their own values statement and it comes down to the people at the top I think. I understand the difference between two employees and 50 who pay child support or have some other garnishment and the extra workload that can create with record keeping and accountability. I get that. 

Perhaps my own life experiences have caused me to be more open and understanding and willing to take on extra tasks to accommodate someone who pays child support or has other obligations because I've been there. And maybe as part of a business plan, making these accommodations would be a part of it and anticipated given the workforce out there today and not wanting to limit my access to the pool of talented and hard working people or to discriminate and continue the hardship of others by denying employment.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

There is a subtle tone there that I am lacking in the values department which I am not too appreciative of, however again you are speaking about employees and I am focusing on pre-hires.

My personal situation has greatly shaped who I am and how I operate as well which is why I have to take precautions and factor in things which I never even considered previously as an employee.

Start up a business and see how long your graciousness benefits your operation. You do make concessions here and there and I have and promote a very friendly and accommodating employee environment but this discussion has been on credit reports affecting employment and yes it is and absolutely should be a factor in some employment decisions.

If I bend over for every employee I will soon have no business to speak of. Your perceptions are quite naive and simplistic. In my fantasy world I would wish everything was peaches and cream like you want it to be, but this is reality.


Edit: Also when you submit your business plan for loans from the bank or investors...see how much you get when you share the extras you are throwing in to accommodate possible future employees who have it rough. This is exactly the mentality they want to see when deciding if they give you dollars or not (sarcasm). And no you cannot hide the costs in other areas.


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> There is a subtle tone there that I am lacking in the values department which I am not too appreciative of, however again you are speaking about employees and I am focusing on pre-hires.
> 
> My personal situation has greatly shaped who I am and how I operate as well which is why I have to take precautions and factor in things which I never even considered previously as an employee.
> 
> ...



I've been on the other side and know first hand that a low credit score or an order to pay child support does not ultimately determine the quality of care, a person's character, motivation, professionalism, or any other quality traits. 

Granted, a credit score may not be the sole determining factor but it sounds like a lot of weight is given to it when used and some people have given examples of how others were actually disqualified based on credit score. 

Say someone took a hit with their health and had no insurance... and now the credit sucks. This person should be denied a job?

Employer's who use credit scores just enable a downward spiral.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

18G said:


> Employer's who use credit scores just enable a downward spiral.



And therein lies the problem....why is it the responsibility or burden of the employer to "save" anyone? The employer did not put them in that position but now it is their fault for taking a pass?

I lessen my risk and my burden yet you want to lay the guilt at my door that I am enabling their downward spiral. Are you Catholic?


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> And therein lies the problem....why is it the responsibility or burden of the employer to "save" anyone? The employer did not put them in that position but now it is their fault for taking a pass?
> 
> I lessen my risk and my burden yet you want to lay the guilt at my door that I am enabling their downward spiral. Are you Catholic?



Actually, many employers did place people in situations where they are no longer able to pay their bills which resulted in a bad credit rating. I'm not placing total blame on the employers but it's not as simple as your making it sound either.  

I'm sure your aware of the high unemployment rate in the US and the difficulty people are having with getting jobs. The economy isn't a problem created by the person handing in the job application. So yes, many people are victims and employers need to play a part.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

18G said:


> Actually, many employers did place people in situations where they are no longer able to pay their bills which resulted in a bad credit rating. I'm not placing total blame on the employers but it's not as simple as your making it sound either.
> 
> I'm sure your aware of the high unemployment rate in the US and the difficulty people are having with getting jobs. The economy isn't a problem created by the person handing in the job application. So yes, many people are victims and employers need to play a part.



And if an employer is still hiring someone...only using a credit rating to choose between the two, how is he not positively impacting the employment rate? Your comment makes no sense...someone is still getting hired.

And the problem is not created by the person receiving the application either as they are trying to put someone to work. Again a non sequitor and fallacy in your logic.

For the record, as evil sounding as you have tried to make my hypothetical credit report hiring practices sound....the reality is I have created 26 full time positions and am adding more every month in addition to having a long roster of per diem staff as well.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

18G said:


> Actually, many employers did place people in situations where they are no longer able to pay their bills which resulted in a bad credit rating.



And again, how is this my problem as the prospective new employer? You had a bad employer, you got shafted and it screwed your bills...why does it become MY problem to overlook your credit issues when deciding who I want to hire for my business.

I am still hiring someone...I am doing my part and statistically I am reducing my risk. Why does your problem become mine especially if I have two identical candidates and I choose the one who has a better credit report?


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## 18G (Oct 31, 2011)

akflightmedic said:


> And if an employer is still hiring someone...only using a credit rating to choose between the two, how is he not positively impacting the employment rate? Your comment makes no sense...someone is still getting hired.



My comment does make sense and I know others agree as well. It's been written and spoken about in the news media. People who are affected by this economy and receive bad credit ratings by factors outside of their control are having a difficult time getting hired sometimes because of employers using credit scores. These people want to work. They are great employees with lots to offer. 

The economy caused them to lose their job, lose their good credit rating, and now an employer won't give them a job? So now we have more people on unemployment, medicaid, and food assistance, and more people who are losing their homes, adding stress to the government and economy. This creates burdens that trickle down to the employer and eventually will become the employer's problem. What happens when people can't afford a company's services because nobody will hire them and give them a paycheck?  

The scenario you pose above is assuming you have two candidates with opposing credit scores....  that is one with a bad report and one with a good report. In this economy what if you have five candidates and all have bad credit scores? Or the best qualified and highly recommended person has the bad credit score yet the four other goof balls have pretty good credit scores? Then what?  

Why not evaluate based on skill, knowledge, experience, recommendations, references, and employment history? You can't tell if someone would make a good employee by using all this criteria? Is a credit score really an indicator of performance, knowledge, experience, commitment, and leadership?

There are way too many factors involved with credit scoring to use it as a reflector of an individual. 

This is just my opinion and I do commend you for building what sounds like a successful business. So congratulations on that.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 31, 2011)

But now you are further changing the scenario to endorse your opinion that using a credit score is bad juju.

Every time I reason away your problem with logic, you change the rules of the game. Ok, so now I have 5 candidates with the exact same 500 credit score. They are all equal in experience and qualification and all have excellent references and impeccable job histories--that is until they were all fired on the exact same day due to a business failure.

The hiring will now come down to profiling. Do I prefer a female or male, do they have accents, do they smell, are they too fat, are they too skinny, did they have a rough night and look a little tired today. All superficial stuff which we have beat up in other threads but if we level the playing field, not everyone still gets to play. It does not work that way.

I would probably broaden my search and re advertise until I found the candidate that I want in my organization. It is my right as a business owner and as stated before, someone is going to be hired...so your list of the person falling to the wayside and becoming a heavier burden on society is invalid because the person I employ could just as easily be that person too.

A body is being hired. One less in the soup line. I happen to choose the less riskier of the two, three, four or five....any number you want but it is my responsibility to myself, my business and my employees.


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## firetender (Oct 31, 2011)

*Practicality*

If I do a credit chack (as an employer) and I see you have the potential to have the wages I pay you garnished, then, no thanks, I'll take the guy who complicates my business the least.


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## ParamedicLuvnNurse (Oct 31, 2011)

Just because someone has a lower than stellar credit score doesn't mean they weren't taking care of their financial responsibilities. Things happen out of people's control that can affect their financial stability such as losing a job, having a medical emergency, a family death that you had to pay 100% of the funeral costs, etc. Things just happen, period. This should not reflect how a person will provide care for a patient, how they will handle a companies equipment, etc. 

Times are hard and a lot of good people have poor credit these days. I'm sure they didn't go out saying, "Hey I don't want to pay my bills anymore so I'll happily take a 400 credit score".


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## AlphaButch (Oct 31, 2011)

As a person, I understand that things happen that may be out of a person's control in relation to their credit report (it's happened to me).

As an employer, I'm with firetender and akflightmedic. I will take the least complications. I may allow more leeway in my decision process if the prospect has a skillset I need, or has something else (good recommendations, etc) to offset the probable costs involved. It is not my responsibility to _give_ people jobs.

I normally look at an entire credit report (and don't bother with a score) if a prospect makes it to that point in the hiring process. If it doesn't match with the background check - red flag. If the person is very overextended - red flag. If the person has a whole lot of activity or a lien - red flag. They may be a great provider and a great person, but they have obviously shown that they aren't capable of handling certain things (budgeting, long term planning, etc) which may be required depending on the position.


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## dstevens58 (Oct 31, 2011)

I don't care what your credit score is, however.......how you handle your credit is indicative of your responsibility as an individual.  If I see someone who purchases high ticket items (car, house, boat), then makes no effort to pay them off, have them repossessed, or declares bankruptcy is indicative of their character.

As a young married couple, we got into some things we were using the credit card that shouldn't be used.  We didn't get in deep over our heads, but once we dug ourselves out......we kept out.  Never charge more than what you can afford to pay off in full within the month (or two at the most).

Wise financial management indicates some strength of character.  And yes, it takes a lot of work to maintain my expenses and living within my means.


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## dstevens58 (Oct 31, 2011)

dstevens58 said:


> Wise financial management indicates some strength of character.  And yes, it takes a lot of work to maintain my expenses and living within my means.



That's not to say that a devastating event can happen, death, job loss, etc, but be prepared to be asked about it and what you're doing or planning on doing to fix things.  I listen to honest and sincere answers and can pretty much just your responses on how you handle adversity and challenges.


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## atropine (Nov 1, 2011)

dstevens58 said:


> That's not to say that a devastating event can happen, death, job loss, etc, but be prepared to be asked about it and what you're doing or planning on doing to fix things.  I listen to honest and sincere answers and can pretty much just your responses on how you handle adversity and challenges.



I totally agree with this, I know when the city places applicants into backgrounds they are going to be case by case. Credit scores are there for a reason, just as personality assesments are sometimes part of the recruiting process, and if you don't like it be my guest and work for joe blow ambulance company, but if you want lucrative pension . salary and benifits then you got to meet all the requirements an agency requires.


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