# Bilingual



## Sasha (Apr 23, 2009)

Reading the communication/assesment debate on another thread, I'm wondering others opinions on this.

Do you think EMTs/Paramedics should be required to at least learn enough of whatever the dominant second (Or third language) is in your response area to do a decent assesment? For example, those in Miami being required to learn Spanish?

Does your service provide interperter services available by phone? Do you have a Spanish/Italian/German/French/etc dictionary?


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## frdude1000 (Apr 23, 2009)

In my area (washington, d.c. area), their are SO many languages spoken.  Their are alot of people who speak spanish, and their are always people from other countries visiting our nations capital.  A lot of our members speak other languages (spanish, chinese, french) which can be helpful.  We also keep a book with assesment questions in many different languages handy.  I do not think it should be REQUIRED to speak the second dominant language, but i think you should HAVE a guidebook including the language and others.


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## Onceamedic (Apr 23, 2009)

As others have stated, I don't think learning another language should be mandatory.  That said, I would think medics would want to know how to communicate to large sections of their patients.  English is my second language - I immigrated from Finland.  I learned French when I lived in Canada, and am now learning Spanish.  (gotta torment as large a population as I can.....)


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## VentMedic (Apr 23, 2009)

Spanish is highly advised as a second language to get a healthcare job in Miami. Some employers in the past did require it until English became the official language (1988) of Florida. There are still some hospitals where Spanish is the primary language and English rarely heard. 

We keep a couple of laminiated flip boards with pictures and associated words in a few different languages. These boards can also be used for children, the deaf, aphasic, trached or ventilated patients to assist in communication. 

Body language and gestures must also be understood as some may have a very different meaning to another culture even if the same language is spoken. I learned early about the different cultural differences among the Spanish speaking countries and those from the islands. 

Religions or other cultural difference must also be acknowledged. Some may not understand why a Jehovah's Witness patient is apprehensive about going to a trauma center if one didn't know a little about their beliefs. Even diffusing a volitale situation with a member of the Aryan Nation and their healthcare providers can be handled professionally if a little knowledge is shown to demonstrate an understanding but still give care regardless of beliefs. 

Good communication can still be accomplished even if the languages are different. However, in the hospitals, having access to information in their own language is now a patient right and compliance is now being mandated by accrediting agencies. There are many language services available to assist in this.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 23, 2009)

While I think it is a good idea, I do not think it should be manditory. Perhaps a system like the military uses would be good. No second language is required, but a pay bonus is given to those who do know a second language.

Aroung here I'd have to learn Russian!!:wacko:


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## reaper (Apr 23, 2009)

I voted no. I grew up in South Florida, where Spanish is almost the first language. I worked a lot of jobs where I dealt with Spanish customers. I have never had a problem getting them to understand what I needed or to understand what they needed.

Sorry, but I feel that English is the countries official language and it should be learned, if you come here. I do not go to other countries and expect them to learn English to speak to me. Many cultures do not allow their kids to speak their language outside the home, in this country. It is a respect idea.

Most Spanish speaking people do understand enough English to get by. We do have a phone interpreter available if needed, but I have never had a need to use it. I think that it is OK to learn a second language, if that is what you want. But, I see no thought of making it mandatory for someone to do it!


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 23, 2009)

I voted no becasue is should not be mandatory, a good idea yes, but to discriminate against a really great Medic because they can't speak anything other than English isn't fair.  I know some Spanish (all my grandma speaks) and some Sign Language (a diversion while taking EMS/Rescue courses).  

Oh course this thread could easily go the "We live in America, if they can't speak English then tough on them" way.  But that attitude, while acceptable from various political arenas, doesn't fly when we are talking about providing the best possible care regrdless of race or language.  Yes, all people should have to learn to speak the language of the country they plan on living in, but it ain't gonna happen and we need to deal with it to provide the best possible care.  If that means learning enough Spanish or whatever to get by, then so be it.


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## Ridryder911 (Apr 23, 2009)

No! Sorry, I have visited other countries and if I was to live there I would honor their tradition and learn their main language. I can understand as well, if the area is high volume of tourist area but to require? No. 

Since I work in a high concentrated Native American area, I guess the table could be reversed and require us to learn their language as since there was some of the original tribes here before the white man.....

R/r 911


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## silver (Apr 23, 2009)

Since the United States has no official language I wouldn't mind having to learn another language.

I've taken 7 years of spanish, but I dont know any medical spanish so it is only somewhat useful.


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## medic417 (Apr 23, 2009)

No habla inglish.  Quite toda la ropas hora.  Que dolor mi pecho.  Ayuda mi.  No tengo dinero.  Donde esta.  Quin necesita ayuda?

Ok.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> I know some Spanish (all my grandma speaks) and some Sign Language (a diversion while taking EMS/Rescue courses).



Oh, and I know a little Klingonesse for those trekkie patients I have been known to treat.


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## phabib (Apr 23, 2009)

I think Spanish should be officially the United State's second language. The population is large enough now and in about 20 years those of Spanish descent will outnumber Caucasians if the trend continues. It's the US, the nation has always adapted to those living in it. I don't see why language should be any different. Anyways, changing road signs to make sure everyone can read them isn't a bad thing. 

This doesn't mean everyone should learn the second language. Just look at Canada. It's a strong plus to know French (in the Western provinces) but that's it. I don't think it should be required for Paramedics as long as there are others that can easily come on scene and translate.


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## Epi-do (Apr 23, 2009)

I have become very fluent in speaking Budweiser, Coors, and many of the countless other dialects of Beer that are spoken in my area.  Does that count for anything?

Seriously though, I don't think it should be required to learn a second language.  Even though we have a pretty large hispanic population, most of them do speak broken English, and understand most of it - at leat until the cops show up.


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## AJ Hidell (Apr 23, 2009)

While I would not support a nationwide mandate for bilingualism in EMS, I would indeed make it a requirement from graduation from any paramedic degree program that I directed.  Either four semesters of conversational Spanish, or passing a standardized test for proficiency, like the DLPT or SLPE would be required.

That said, I tend to have little sympathy for those who come to America with no intention of assimilating into the native culture.  And I do not support government efforts to enable them to get by without having to even make an effort.  However, the simple fact is that, this is something that will make you better able to perform your job, so a professional commitment to doing so is to be encouraged.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 23, 2009)

Nope, they live here, I don't live there.  


Would it be NICE if someone CHOSE to learn?  Sure.  But if I get forced to learn a language because someone else doesn't learn the unofficial primary one here, just to keep my job, I'd be irked.





phabib said:


> I think Spanish should be officially the United State's second language.



Problem with that idea;  we don't even have an official primary language.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 23, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> I tend to have little sympathy for those who come to America with no intention of assimilating into the native culture.



"Any  imigrant who comes to America should be required to learn english within 5 years or leave." -Theadore Roosevelt

Not that I agree with that (for fear of angre replys).  But I agree with what you said 100%:  "And I do not support government efforts to enable them to get by without having to even make an effort.  However, the simple fact is that, this is something that will make you better able to perform your job, so a professional commitment to doing so is to be encouraged."  but manditory?  Nope!


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## AJ Hidell (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> "Any  imigrant who comes to America should be required to learn english within 5 years or leave." -Theadore Roosevelt
> 
> Not that I agree with that (for fear of angre replys).


:lol:  Sad, but true.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> "Any  imigrant who comes to America should be required to learn english within 5 years or leave." -Theadore Roosevelt
> 
> Not that I agree with that (for fear of angre replys).





I'm not.


If I move to a country to live, even if for just a moderate amount of time, you bet your butt I'll make an attempt to learn enough of the language to get through every day life, if not more.  The same should be expected of ANYONE moving ANYWHERE.  

It's common sense and courtesy.


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## STATION4 (Apr 23, 2009)

This is the UNITED STATES speak ENGLISH.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 23, 2009)

Can't delete =(


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 23, 2009)

STATION4 said:


> This is the UNITED STATES speak ENGLISH.



I actually don't speak English becasue I don't live in England.  I speak American, because that is where I live!    we say things like "Snap" "Y'll" "Whatever" "Yep" "Betcha" and we are pround of it.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> I actually don't speak English becasue I don't live in England.  I speak American, because that is where I live!    we say things like "Snap" "Y'll" "Whatever" "Yep" "Betcha" and we are pround of it.



American English*


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> American English*



Fine.  I am an Appalachian-American who can speak Ameriglish "real good like".


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## Shishkabob (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Ameriglish



I can't even attempt to pronounce that word in my head :wacko:


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## VentMedic (Apr 23, 2009)

The United States has no official language. Surf up why. You would also be surprised at the consequences of what would happen if English was the official language. Florida did make English the official language and lost millions of dollars immediately for the education of children. That money was to go to both teach people English and to encourage those who speak English to learn a second language. Florida lost even more millions in tourism which is a leading industry for Florida and the U.S. Do you know how many English speaking business owners suffered from that? 

Those of you that have gone to college, why do you think 2 semesters of a foreign language are required? For one, it makes people think of another heritage and banishes some of the attitudes that are being displayed here. How many display this attitude with your patients that don't speak English? Some of these strong opinions may be difficult to conceal. 

Many people who have not learned to speak English in this country are older who were brought here by their children or who fled their country for reasons of violence. Look at some of the Asian and South American countries. Many of these people did not want to leave their homes just like some of our own ancestors but some feared for their lives and the lives of their children. I don't always agree with the way this country treats immigrants, either legal or illegal. The Cubans and Haitians are treated totally different by the U.S. I did not agree with the Mariel boatlift but again that was the doing of the U.S. Castro just took Carter up on his offer. But, as a healthcare provider, I will try to communicate with at least the two dominant languages in my city. In the hospital, it will their right to have someone interpret for them. 

While someone shouldn't be forced to learn a another language to work in EMS, I believe a similar statement can be made for those who have chosen to live in the U.S. This country is supposed to be rich in diversity and FREEDOM. There seems to be a few here that don't seem to understand those words. There is also a good chance they haven't seen much of the U.S. or the world either to appreciate freedom, choice and diversity.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 23, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I can't even attempt to pronounce that word in my head :wacko:



A-Mare-eye-glish.  I've sumitted it to Websters.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> "Any  imigrant who comes to America should be required to learn english within 5 years or leave." -Theadore Roosevelt
> 
> Not that I agree with that (for fear of angre replys).  But I agree with what you said 100%:  "And I do not support government efforts to enable them to get by without having to even make an effort.  However, the simple fact is that, this is something that will make you better able to perform your job, so a professional commitment to doing so is to be encouraged."  but manditory?  Nope!



I agree 100% with it. I don't care about angering people


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## Sasha (Apr 23, 2009)

English is one of the hardest languages to learn. Things that sound like they should start with "S" start with "C", there's their, there, they're, your, you're, picture, pitcher, present as in gift, present as in current time, ever changing slang.

If you had replaced "learn a second language" with "learn more about COPD, Cardiomyopathy, ALS, gullain barre syndrome, trisomy,the endocrine system, (you get the point) many would be all over it, yeah! something that may be able to help better understand, asses, or treat a patient down the road! So why is the same no applicable to a second language? How could you better asses a patient than in their native language?

I can't tell you how dissapointed I am to read comments like "You're in America, speak American!".


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## AJ Hidell (Apr 23, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I can't tell you how dissapointed I am to read comments like "You're in America, speak American!".


Would you be similarly disappointed if you heard it from immigrants who came here speaking no English, but were determined to be Americans, and learned English, and are now encouraging other immigrants to do the same thing?  Would you rather them encourage other immigrants to just sit around and isolate themselves from society, and never make any effort to assimilate?  Sounds to me like you're promoting segregation.  That disappoints me.


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## Sasha (Apr 23, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> Would you be similarly disappointed if you heard it from immigrants who came here speaking no English, but were determined to be Americans, and learned English, and are now encouraging other immigrants to do the same thing?  Would you rather them encourage other immigrants to just sit around and isolate themselves from society, and never make any effort to assimilate?  Sounds to me like you're promoting segregation.  That disappoints me.



Actually, I would be similarly dissapointed. I'm not supporting them to totally ignore learning English, but why not take steps to make it easier for YOU the health care provider to communicate with them? Make regulations on them learning English when you're in congress, not medicine.

And we had this conversation like 20 minutes ago on the phone, Mr. Hidell


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## VentMedic (Apr 23, 2009)

Sasha said:


> If you had replaced "learn a second language" with "*learn more about COPD, Cardiomyopathy, ALS, gullain barre syndrome, trisomy,the endocrine system,* (you get the point) many would be all over it, yeah! something that may be able to help better understand, asses, or treat a patient down the road! So why is the same no applicable to a second language?


 
We've already tried that approach for some in EMS and few even go for more medical education.  The same comments about not needing more book learnin' also applies here.  

However, if you post a communication class in other medical settings for signing or another language, it fills quickly.   When you have patient responsibility for longer than 15 minutes, most will see the rationale for improving their ability to communicate or having access to interpreters especially if there is another language very prevalent in an area.  

We can not always pick and choose our patients nor can they choose when they will need medical care.


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## STATION4 (Apr 23, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> I actually don't speak English becasue I don't live in England.  I speak American, because that is where I live!    we say things like "Snap" "Y'll" "Whatever" "Yep" "Betcha" and we are pround of it.



same dam thing


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## reaper (Apr 24, 2009)

Sasha said:


> English is one of the hardest languages to learn. Things that sound like they should start with "S" start with "C", there's their, there, they're, your, you're, picture, pitcher, present as in gift, present as in current time, ever changing slang.
> 
> If you had replaced "learn a second language" with "learn more about COPD, Cardiomyopathy, ALS, gullain barre syndrome, trisomy,the endocrine system, (you get the point) many would be all over it, yeah! something that may be able to help better understand, asses, or treat a patient down the road! So why is the same no applicable to a second language? How could you better asses a patient than in their native language?
> 
> I can't tell you how dissapointed I am to read comments like "You're in America, speak American!".




But Sasha, should we learn every language spoken, to better assess our Pt's?

Vent hit the nail on the head, even when putting down, we only have our Pt's for 15-20 minutes. I can assess my pt and treat them, without ever speaking a word to them. We do it all the time with unresponsive Pt's. So how is it different? If we had the same pt for 12 hours, then I would need an interpreter. On the truck, we have the problem of the interpreter not wanting to stay in the cabinet all the time!


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## Foxbat (Apr 24, 2009)

While I am not a US citizen and I can't tell you what to do with immigrants, here's my humble opinion.
Yes, immigrants should learn English. Also, people should not take heroin, drink alcohol in excess, or commit suicides. And yet EMS providers learn how to treat drug overdose and how to deal with suicide attempters. We don't say "this is America, you can't take illegal drugs, if you do, that's your problem". We try to help the patient the best we can even if they do something stupid.
Besides, not knowing English is not always patient's fault. You may see a pediatric pt. who is too young to speak any language and whose parents don't know English. You might see an elderly patient who came to US along with his children and is simply too old to learn a new language from start.
Or, you might see a patient trying to tell you he has an infectious disease, or that he was just exposed to hazardous material, or that his lasceration is actually a knife wound and the guy who did that might come back any minute.


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## reaper (Apr 24, 2009)

As stated above. Do your assessment and treat!


I could be treating a terrorist with a bomb strapped to them and speaking Arabic. If I do my assessment, I find the bomb and deal with it from there. You could "what if" it to death. Does not change the out come. Assess and treat.


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## Foxbat (Apr 24, 2009)

So you don't think there are a lot of situations in which knowing symptoms (as opposed to just signs), history, and allergies would significantly change the way you would treat a pt?


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## VentMedic (Apr 24, 2009)

reaper said:


> As stated above. Do your assessment and treat!
> 
> 
> I could be treating a terrorist with a bomb strapped to them and speaking Arabic. If I do my assessment, I find the bomb and deal with it from there. You could "what if" it to death. Does not change the out come. Assess and treat.


 
I can also tell you about the many times that I have been warned about a dangerous situation in Spanish which may have saved me from harm. I'm not talking about what if situations either. There are some situations I would like to know about before I am close enough to touch the patient. 

If you choose to live in an area that has another language that is spoken even more than English, you should consider learning that language. Miami is a great example. By not speaking the language, you can miss out on many cultural events and will not truly be part of a great city. You will also have more job opportunities and can even pick up extra money as a medical interpreter which can pay better then ambulance work.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 24, 2009)

I believe the original poll question was should it be Mandatory?

Without going further into the political aspects of the argument, I believe that almost everyone here is saying the same thing.  Mandatory: no.  A great idea if we want to provide the best posssible care: ABSOLUTELY!  It demostrates your personal commitment toward furthering your education in an effort to become the best medical provider you can be; same as getting ACLS when you are just an EMT or taking more Advanced A&P or Cardiology classes as a First Responder.  It's not needed to do you job, but it is always benifical to do your job 110%, which should be everyones goal here.  But out of all the classes/courses we should be making mandatory for EMSers, 2nd, 3rd, 4th languages are pretty low on my list.


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## Aidey (Apr 24, 2009)

I voted no, like others have expressed I feel that when in the US you should at least make a decent attempt to learn English. Of course this will never happen, plus there are always tourists, and there are just way too many languages for it to be practical. Some larger areas have 3 or 4 different language groups that have significant populations. Which language would be mandatory?

I also agree that it is generally possible for us to do our jobs without having to have an extensive conversation with the patient. It makes it easier when we can talk to them, but if we can't we need to be able to work around that. I think language interpreter lines are much more appropriate. That way you know the person interpreting knows what they are doing, instead of depending on someone who took a couple of semesters of German 4 years ago.

That all being said, I am technically bilingual. I speak English (obviously) but I'm also proficient in American Sign Language. My University requires a language, and of all the people in the US they are the only ones who can't control the fact they can't speak or understand spoken English.


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## Sasha (Apr 24, 2009)

reaper said:


> But Sasha, should we learn every language spoken, to better assess our Pt's?
> 
> Vent hit the nail on the head, even when putting down, we only have our Pt's for 15-20 minutes. I can assess my pt and treat them, without ever speaking a word to them. We do it all the time with unresponsive Pt's. So how is it different? If we had the same pt for 12 hours, then I would need an interpreter. On the truck, we have the problem of the interpreter not wanting to stay in the cabinet all the time!



No, that's unfeasible, but if you have a big Spanish speaking population, or a big German speaking population, or a big Russian population, why not learn enough to do asses? What if your patient was allergic to latex, or morphine? How do you assess allergies without speaking to them if they're not wearing a medic alert braclet?

The difference between an unresponsive patient and a non-English speaking patient is the unresponsive patient is... unresponsive. Sure, you CAN treat and assess, but don't you think your patient would feel REALLY uncomortable you touching them and not speaking to them?


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## EmsPrincess* (Apr 24, 2009)

I voted "no". It should not be required but it would probably prove to be helpful.


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## JCampbell (Apr 24, 2009)

No, not mandatory. Many people can't even speak or write English correctly when it's their native language, much less have the time and ability to learn another secondary language. I personally love learning Spanish and I learn more every day. I hate to say it, but being an EMT-B doesn't seem to be rocket science, and I think it hits the limits of some peoples educational ability. To demand them to learn something entirely different and non-medical would I think cause us to lose a lot of otherwise capable and productive EMTs. In less nice terms: Some folks are too dumb to learn Spanish, but smart enough to be effective EMTs.


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## VentMedic (Apr 24, 2009)

Good post JCampbell.
Welcome to the forum.


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 24, 2009)

I voted No, I mean like stated before, If i moved to Japan I would learn japanese, ect. I have taken 1yr German, 4yrs. Spanish, and 7yrs. French. Would that help me in my area. Nope, I did not learn medical terms in those class. I do fine speaking with another language and most of them have family that can translate. We also have a book like stated before for different languages we come across. I do not think it should be required but it would be helpful to learn how to say the words properly to express what you are trying to say.


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 24, 2009)

JCampbell said:


> No, not mandatory. Many people can't even speak or write English correctly when it's their native language, much less have the time and ability to learn another secondary language. I personally love learning Spanish and I learn more every day. I hate to say it, but being an EMT-B doesn't seem to be rocket science, and I think it hits the limits of some peoples educational ability. To demand them to learn something entirely different and non-medical would I think cause us to lose a lot of otherwise capable and productive EMTs. In less nice terms: Some folks are too dumb to learn Spanish, but smart enough to be effective EMTs.



Welcome! and very true, I am with you 100%


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## john76 (Apr 27, 2009)

Idont think they should have to learn  a second language it should be everyones personal choice whether or not they  want to learn  one.


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## medicdan (Apr 27, 2009)

Interesting discussion... I am fluent in English and Hebrew (which proved to be very helpful, as I worked in Israel), but aside has done me no good. I would rather EMS providers spend the educational capitol, money and time on furthering their EMS education, which they could possibly use everyday, over language skills used once in a blue moon...


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 27, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> Interesting discussion... I am fluent in English and Hebrew (which proved to be very helpful, as I worked in Israel), but aside has done me no good. I would rather EMS providers spend the educational capitol, money and time on furthering their EMS education, which they could possibly use everyday, over language skills used once in a blue moon...



Agreed, and Hebrew? I always wanted to learn that. Israel eh? how was it over there, a place I want to visit.


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## HotelCo (Apr 27, 2009)

*HAVE TO?* No. However I do think it's a good idea. But there shouldn't be a requirement for it.


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## Buzz (Apr 27, 2009)

I took a few of years of Spanish classes when I was in school. It was never anything that I really had use for, living where I do. Arabic would have been a far more useful language to learn, actually. Still, now that I'm working, I run across patients that speak only Spanish. The first time this happened, my partner and I were completely at a loss for ways to communicate. My partner didn't speak any other language at all, and my spanish was very rusty--not that it mattered as I didn't really know how to ask anything relevant to an assessment. After that I decided to expand my vocabulary, focusing mainly on medical terms. I didn't find much use for much of anything in my books when I tried to review it aside from the basic anatomy terms. 
I really only get to use it once a month or so, but when the situation arises it is definitely handy. I've also ended up translating for triage once we get to the ER.


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## Sasha (Apr 27, 2009)

Just for the record, I didn't mean Spanish only, I meant whatever second language is dominant in your area. Arabic, Russian, German. 

So a lot of you think it's a really good idea, just don't feel you should be forced. Why? 

What if, instead of a full Spanish or German or Russian class, one was required to take one that was geared specifically to medical personnel? 

Do you feel employers would have the right not to hire you based on lack of being bilingual?


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## Shishkabob (Apr 27, 2009)

No, they should not have the right to decide on hiring people who can only speak multiple languages.  Should it be bonus points on a resume?  Of course.  

 Even in Texas, the vast majority of people I meet can speak English to some workable extent.  Do I run in to the immigrants that butcher it or can't speak anything other then "Hello"?  Yup.  Buut those encounters rarely warrant my need to learn any more of the Spanish language then what I already have after 4 years of it.

Again, those people live in this country, so common sense dictates hey, to make life easier on them, they would learn the dominant language, as any reasonable person would do if moving to another country.


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## Sasha (Apr 27, 2009)

What if the employed mandated that once hired the employee is to learn, say, German because they service a largely german speaking area, and pay for and provide the class to learn?

Would you still say no then? Why? To me it sounds like people are just getting indignant that they should adapt to fit their patients needs.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 27, 2009)

I have 4 years of Spanish, 2 years of French, and 4 years of German all from middle school to college, so I know how the game is played.  I know that it can benefit people, and make them a slight bit more "well rounded" (hate that phrase).



Still against making it a requirement.  


Police Departments down here pay an incentive to be bilingual, because it is a very Spanish speaking area.  But they still don't make it a requirement.


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## Sasha (Apr 27, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I have 4 years of Spanish, 2 years of French, and 4 years of German all from middle school to college, so I know how the game is played.  I know that it can benefit people, and make them a slight bit more "well rounded" (hate that phrase).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why? Don't employers have the right to dictate what skills their employees have?


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## Shishkabob (Apr 27, 2009)

Oh, sure they have the right to mandate hiring criteria, but that's not the question.  The question is should it be a requirement, and the answer from the majority of us is no, it shouldn't.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 27, 2009)

Sasha said:


> What if the employed mandated that once hired the employee is to learn, say, German because they service a largely german speaking area, and pay for and provide the class to learn?
> 
> Would you still say no then? Why? To me it sounds like people are just getting indignant that they should adapt to fit their patients needs.



Indignant if we are forced to adapt to fit the needs of the patient if they haven't tried to fit in with the rest of the U.S.  But no one is saying that we provide lesser care.  Learing another language (or several) is great if you want to do so; hell I'll probably be taking a quick conversations medical Spansih (refreasher) course locally this summer just because I agree that it is a good idea or those of us who want to provide the best care possible.  But to make it a requirment and have it forced on us in order to provide care is not right or fair to us.



Sasha said:


> Why? Don't employers have the right to dictate what skills their employees have?



Now you are approaching a fine line of discrimination.  What if your employeer came up to you tomarrow and said that the company is now requireing that all employees have 3 languages under their belt?  Obviously employeers have the right to choose the best canidates based upon the criteria that they have set up for providing the best service to the population they serve.  If they feel that knowing Spanish is what they need, then they can hire the one who speaks Spanish, but to reject those that do not without even considering the rest of their background and abilities boarders on discrimination, IMHO.


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## Sasha (Apr 27, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Indignant if we are forced to adapt to fit the needs of the patient if they haven't tried to fit in with the rest of the U.S.  But no one is saying that we provide lesser care.  Learing another language (or several) is great if you want to do so; hell I'll probably be taking a quick conversations medical Spansih (refreasher) course locally this summer just because I agree that it is a good idea or those of us who want to provide the best care possible.  But to make it a requirment and have it forced on us in order to provide care is not right or fair to us.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are approaching a fine line of discrimination.  What if your employeer came up to you tomarrow and said that the company is now requireing that all employees have 3 languages under their belt?  Obviously employeers have the right to choose the best canidates based upon the criteria that they have set up for providing the best service to the population they serve.  If they feel that knowing Spanish is what they need, then they can hire the one who speaks Spanish, but to reject those that do not without even considering the rest of their background and abilities boarders on discrimination, IMHO.



What if they are brand new to the US? What if they are trying to learn it but haven't gotten very far in their English yet. So are you indignant on having to adapt to them, too?


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 27, 2009)

Sasha said:


> What if they are brand new to the US? What if they are trying to learn it but haven't gotten very far in their English yet. So are you indignant on having to adapt to them, too?



Once again:  NOT ME!!!  I agree that it is a good idea and would never withhold care because they fit this mold.  I will try my best to communicate with them.  If you are in an area that services a particular prominent language group, then YES, please learn it so tht you can provide teh best care.  But your scenerio could be applied to any language.  "What if they are new to the U.S. and speak only Swahili?"  Well shame on us for not taking a few years to learn it?  Making it MANDATORY that we conform to a language group is wrong, because where does it end?  But shame on any of us if we serve a large Spanish (or any other language) population and fail to become at least conversational in medical Spanish lingo.  Just as it is a "shame on them" if they feel no need to make the same effort in interacting with the rest of the community.


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 28, 2009)

Most mexicans speak mexcian. Like English is to England and you get the point. Also, I see alot of people talking about immagrants and everything, and it is wrong of me to not learn their language. What about my people, I am native American. I don't see anyone jumping to learn my peoples or any of the others tribes around native tongue. I am just throwing that out their to anyone who thinks anyone else is wrong for not learning a secong language.


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## Sasha (Apr 28, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> Most mexicans speak mexcian. Like English is to England and you get the point. Also, I see alot of people talking about immagrants and everything, and it is wrong of me to not learn their language. What about my people, I am native American. I don't see anyone jumping to learn my peoples or any of the others tribes around native tongue. I am just throwing that out their to anyone who thinks anyone else is wrong for not learning a secong language.



Do you and your tribe speak English? You are able to effectively communicate with the general population. And where, may I ask are classes to learn such languages? Native Americans have assimilated to to the American culture. It's a non issue.


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## VentMedic (Apr 28, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> Most mexicans speak mexcian. Like English is to England and you get the point. Also, I see alot of people talking about immagrants and everything, and it is wrong of me to not learn their language. What about my people, I am native American. I don't see anyone jumping to learn my peoples or any of the others tribes around native tongue. I am just throwing that out their to anyone who thinks anyone else is wrong for not learning a secong language.


 
The languages spoken by native Americans are not normally found throughout the country in high schools and colleges. Hence, this is why their languages were successful during war time for code. 

If I chose to work at a hospital or clinic on one of the Reservations I would make every effort to learn some of the language that might be spoken if there are still elder members that speak very little English. This would not be much different from my choice to live in Miami and speak the language spoken by over 65% of its residents. In San Franciso I am a little overwhelmed with the 20+ dialects of Chinese as well as the many other Asian languages plus the 100+ different dialects from the Philipines. The Mission District has Spanish spoken but with a slightly different dialect than the Cubans and the culture is very different. However, if I was to choose to work a Chinese Hospital in the heart of SF, I would try to learn some of the two most popular Chinese languages. 

It is about choice. If you choose an area to work where there is a different language commonly spoken, you should be able to communicate at least a little with the community you have chosen. If not, you can try Kansas or some state that has very few minorities.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 28, 2009)

Vent, no one is saying "Be a stubborn donkey and refuse to learn another language to help your pt"

We're saying it should *not* be mandatory.


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## Sasha (Apr 28, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Vent, no one is saying "Be a stubborn donkey and refuse to learn another language to help your pt"
> 
> We're saying it should *not* be mandatory.



And once again, why not? Please come up with a reason that doesn't make the profession sound like a bunch of pouting children.


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## VentMedic (Apr 28, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Vent, no one is saying "Be a stubborn donkey and refuse to learn another language to help your pt"
> 
> We're saying it should *not* be mandatory.


 
Where did you get that from?

I just said we have "choices".


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## Shishkabob (Apr 28, 2009)

Lets see;


If you live in a place that has an uber-amount of different backgrounds, such as cities on the west coast, it is completely beyond me to expect someone to learn Spanish AND the other Asian dialects of the area.  But hey, you live there, so you HAVE to know atleast 3 languages to work, right?


They moved to the US, we didn't move to their country.  They should make an effort to assimiliate.  Sure, there are people who are brand new who can't speak.  That's one thing.  But NO one in the southern states can say they never met someone who refused to assimilate.  That's why theres China towns, little Cuba, Little Mexico, or with Arabs in Michigan-- Dearborn.

They form those communities so they don't have to assimilate, which is just wrong.



Add on top of it, I'd rather EMS personnel go to school for more medical stuff.  If A&P was required, I'd be all for it.


What if an EMT or Medic mistranslates a word because they've been up for 20 hours running 30 calls, and they end up killing the PT?



We're used to dealing with pts we cannot communicate with, unconcious from medical or trauma, that we should be able to do our job without saying a word.  And if you CAN'T, but are in an urban area, your stay with the pt is so short anyhow, it's a non-issue.






Again, it'd be nice to learn a language to make your job a bit easier, but not mandatory.


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## Sasha (Apr 28, 2009)

So we're all for a&p because you can better understand your patient and what's going on with them, right? Same with patho, pharm, etc. 

Yet, because you would be to conceed and adapt to your possible patients, you are against learning a little Spanish or German or Russian or Italian or Chinese, whatever is the DOMINANT second language in your response area.

Are those who are new to the country immune from needing 911?? 

How about we go at this from a new direction. Does your service offer phone interperters?


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## VentMedic (Apr 28, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Lets see;
> 
> 
> If you live in a place that has an uber-amount of different backgrounds, such as cities on the west coast, it is completely beyond me to expect someone to learn Spanish AND the other Asian dialects of the area. But hey, you live there, so you HAVE to know atleast 3 languages to work, right?
> ...


 
I see you didn't take History in school or learn anything about why the U.S. is such a great country. 

You don't have to live in the areas you mentioned either. 

What percentage of your patients are a trauma or a code. Very small. Most are talking. 

I guess now I see why some in EMS have also failed to even master the English language and are part of the grunt and groan club. They weren't told they would have to communicate with the patient. It is all about the trauma and unconscious. There is nothing about patient care mentioned in your EMS training where you have to interact with a patient by communication with words? 

There are probably those that are reluctant to learn another language because it might mean enrolling in a college and we sure wouldn't want any of that education stuff to get in the way of being a Paramedic which just involves those cool trauma calls or a code. 

As I said you have choices. If you don't care for the diversity this country has to offer, you have the choice to leave.




> What if an EMT or Medic mistranslates a word because they've been up for 20 hours running 30 calls, and they end up killing the PT?


 
Blaming a language for the other issues in EMS is not valid. But, EMS always seems to be looking for someone or something else to blame for its own mistakes and shortcomings. If mistakes are made by working too many calls in a shift, shorter shifts should be considered before and not after you kill someone.

It is funny how some of the excuses for not learning  a little of another language sounds just like the excuses for not getting more education for EMT(P)s.  Excuses. That is the real specialty in EMS.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 28, 2009)

So why not force nurses, doctors, firefighters, police officers, and other civil services jobs to learn the multitude of languages in their area as well.


You REALLY believe that someone that lives near chinatown in a southern state should be forced to learn Mandarin AND Spanish?  Talk about shortage of staff.



Again, I've spent half my life learning foreign languages.  I'm not against incentives for eomployees to learn a language, but it should not be forced.


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## silver (Apr 28, 2009)

Actually if they required a BS or AS it would be pretty easy to require 2 or 4 classes in a foreign language for proficiency.


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## JeffDHMC (Apr 28, 2009)

Out of curiosity Sasha, are you a polyglot?


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## Buzz (Apr 28, 2009)

Learning another language is nice, but is not completely necessary. Using pictures and body language are other ways to communicate. Granted, you can't get a full picture of the situation but unless you are pretty fluent in a language, you aren't going to get much more information. Taking a couple of language courses at a college is enough to get you conversing with someone if they speak slowly and use basic words. I have a hard enough time understanding many of my patients when they are speaking English.

There's a difference between learning a language and learning to say the words. Time would probably be better spent by giving employees a little flashcard with a language common to the area with basic assessment questions on it with yes or no questions.


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## Sasha (Apr 28, 2009)

JeffDHMC said:


> Out of curiosity Sasha, are you a polyglot?



Currently? No, but I am making an effort to learn Spanish, as it's the dominant second language in my area. I do know a decent amount of ASL (Though not as much as I should after the two years in high school! )


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 28, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Currently? No, but I am making an effort to learn Spanish, as it's the dominant second language in my area. I do know a decent amount of ASL (Though not as much as I should after the two years in high school! )



An they hired you?  Good thing it wasn't mandatory...  ^_^


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## VentMedic (Apr 28, 2009)

Linuss said:


> So why not force nurses, doctors, firefighters, police officers, and other civil services jobs to learn the multitude of languages in their area as well.


 
As already mentioned there is at a 2 semester requirement and if you want to work in a hospital or facility that has clients speaking another language, the employer will advertise "bilingual preferred".   Also mentioned are the incentives to know more than one language. 

But, since EMS doesn't have a minimum education standard at the college level established, there is little point in enforcing more education.


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## silver (Apr 28, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> As already mentioned there is at a 2 semester requirement and if you want to work in a hospital or facility that has clients speaking another language, the employer will advertise "bilingual preferred".   Also mentioned are the incentives to know more than one language.
> 
> But, since EMS doesn't have a minimum education standard at the college level established, there is little point in enforcing more education.



Yeh all the future doctors (accepted to med school) and BSN graduates at my university are required to take 4 semesters of a language (or test out).


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## medicdan (Apr 28, 2009)

Heck, all undergraduates at my university are required to take up to a 30-level language, or test out... 

My only recallable snafu related to language in medicine was a story from a partner-- a Spanish speaking patient who had been prescribed an Rx once a day, and read it as _once_ (eleven) times a day... good think it was only children's strength APAP, so I dont believe it did any permanent damage.


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Do you and your tribe speak English? You are able to effectively communicate with the general population. And where, may I ask are classes to learn such languages? Native Americans have assimilated to to the American culture. It's a non issue.



Yep, but there are a few that do not and won't. We had to learn english and adapt to the American culture. So, my point to you is that if the natives that lived here first had to adapt and learn english, shouldn't everyone else that came/comes over into America? That would make the most sense. As for your non issue, read above then go our to a reservation and try and talk with them. Your not native they don't really care about you, because you do not know their culture and their traditions, so lets expand this. Why not learn the other cultures ways of dealing with medicine and death, that way we can provide better care and comfort. Now, coming back to the world of reality, ya in a perfect world everyone would beable to speak all the languages. Seeing as how that will not happen, we try to do the best we can and keep going.


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 29, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> The languages spoken by native Americans are not normally found throughout the country in high schools and colleges. Hence, this is why their languages were successful during war time for code.
> 
> If I chose to work at a hospital or clinic on one of the Reservations I would make every effort to learn some of the language that might be spoken if there are still elder members that speak very little English. This would not be much different from my choice to live in Miami and speak the language spoken by over 65% of its residents. In San Franciso I am a little overwhelmed with the 20+ dialects of Chinese as well as the many other Asian languages plus the 100+ different dialects from the Philipines. The Mission District has Spanish spoken but with a slightly different dialect than the Cubans and the culture is very different. However, if I was to choose to work a Chinese Hospital in the heart of SF, I would try to learn some of the two most popular Chinese languages.
> 
> It is about choice. If you choose an area to work where there is a different language commonly spoken, you should be able to communicate at least a little with the community you have chosen. If not, you can try Kansas or some state that has very few minorities.



Well I live north of the SF, and am now seeing Spanish/Mexican being brought in. You choose to come to my country, I ask you learn my language. Lets put it like this, You or anyone here moves to Japan, China,Germany. Do you think they will change the way they speak or do things because you moved there? I wouldn't bet my life on it. So, because someone moves here for a better life or w/e. I have to now change the way I do things, what I have to learn for them? No, thanks. In Germany I can bet you it isnt manditory to know English, likewise Japan,China,Russia,all of Africa, South America, Central America. So, again I ask why? Give me a better reason than just..well it is a majorty vs. Minority. We allow them to not have to try and learn english, just skate on in and we will make sure you are taken care of.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

> Now, coming back to the world of reality, ya in a perfect world everyone would beable to speak all the languages.



Where did I say all? The dominant second language of your response area. For example, I live in Orlando. If I ever got on a truck, I would deal with a lot people who spoke Spanish only. As stated above, I'm working on learning Spanish.

But let's remember something, learning a language is hard and time consuming.  Maybe they ARE making an effort to learn English but haven't gotten very far in to it.



> Why not learn the other cultures ways of dealing with medicine and death, that way we can provide better care and comfort.



Foreign language classes often incorporate the cutlture of the languages' speakers in class. 



> As for your non issue, read above then go our to a reservation and try and talk with them.



No, I'm not a native American, and I don't live near a reservation. If those who run calls on a reservation have classes to learn the language available to them, then they should make an effort to learn the language to communicate with their patients.



> So, my point to you is that if the natives that lived here first had to adapt and learn english, shouldn't everyone else that came/comes over into America?



The Native Americans were forced to assimilate by violent and cruel ways. Are you saying we should repeat the actions of those who enslaved, kidnapped and murdered Native Americans to force immigrants to assimilate? 

The settlers didn't discover America, they conquered it.



> You or anyone here moves to Japan, China,Germany.



In Japan and China (I don't know about Germany) students are required to learn English in school because they do a lot of business with Americans.



> You choose to come to my country, I ask you learn my language.



So if they're in country, and are learning English, are they not allowed to get sick or hurt until they learn English fluently?


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> Well I live north of the SF, and am now seeing Spanish/Mexican being brought in. You choose to come to my country, I ask you learn my language. Lets put it like this, You or anyone here moves to Japan, China,Germany. Do you think they will change the way they speak or do things because you moved there? I wouldn't bet my life on it. So, because someone moves here for a better life or w/e. I have to now change the way I do things, what I have to learn for them? No, thanks. In Germany I can bet you it isnt manditory to know English, likewise Japan,China,Russia,all of Africa, South America, Central America. So, again I ask why? Give me a better reason than just..well it is a majorty vs. Minority. We allow them to not have to try and learn english, just skate on in and we will make sure you are taken care of.


 
Wow!  That is almost a racist statement.  You sound just like some of the Ayran Brotherhood I saw in the ED not too long ago in SF for making those same statements.    Your attitude is what instigates hate in this country.  You are crossing that fine line of hate and intolerance.   

Do you not know your California history?   

I have little patience for those who are unaccepting of people of different nationalities and cultures.    Your attitude probably carries over into the way you treat your patients which is totally unacceptable for any healthcare professional.   It is one thing to not want to learn another language but it is another thing to impinge upon the rights of others and to discriminate or just hate because others speak a different language or come from another country.


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## silver (Apr 29, 2009)

Since california, texas, New Mexico, and Arizona were basically owned by Spain and then by Mexico they arent really coming in for the first time...

In addition many of these latinos still keep their native cultural languages like el quecha in the andes (bolivia, el ecuador, y el perú), el chibcha in colombia, el guaraní in el paraguay, In Mexico there are about 80 indigenous languages still spoken, and in guatemala there are like a ridiculous numbers of mayan languages. These native people were all oppressed as well, and even more recently half of them had dictatorships which forbid any indigenous cultures. From what I see, their social movements have really allowed them to revitalize. For instance, they are a large proponent of literacy for the poor, ecological agriculture, sustainability, human rights and so forth.

There is no reason to keep any immigrants down, for in reality we are all in it for "the american dream" (be it what you want)...


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

How do some view people from Puerto Rico?

That is a Spanish speaking country.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

silver said:


> Since california, texas, New Mexico, and Arizona were basically owned by Spain and then by Mexico they arent really coming in for the first time...
> 
> In addition many of these latinos still keep their native cultural languages like el quecha in the andes (bolivia, el ecuador, y el perú), el chibcha in colombia, el guaraní in el paraguay, In Mexico there are about 80 indigenous languages still spoken, and in guatemala there are like a ridiculous numbers of mayan languages. These native people were all oppressed as well, and even more recently half of them had dictatorships which forbid any indigenous cultures. From what I see, their social movements have really allowed them to revitalize. For instance, they are a large proponent of literacy for the poor, ecological agriculture, sustainability, human rights and so forth.
> 
> There is no reason to keep any immigrants down, for in reality we are all in it for "the american dream" (be it what you want)...



I don't get what the middle paragraph has to do with anything we are saying.


And no one is saying keep the immigrants down... we're saying assimilate. 



Is it really THAT wrong toi expect someone moving to another country to make an attempt at learning the language?  Be it a Mexican moving here or an American moving to S. Africa... it's just common sense.


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## silver (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I don't get what the middle paragraph has to do with anything we are saying.
> 
> 
> And no one is saying keep the immigrants down... we're saying assimilate.
> ...



assimilation leads to a boring monotonous society...changing of culture should be a natural smooth progression and not forced on people so they lose their true identity. In addition assimilation leads to a lack of diversity.

the middle paragraph is a reference of how U.S. native americans have been forced to assimilate. Im citing how you can fight back and let your language/culture grow.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

This is where you're just plain wrong.

Assimilation does not mean losing your culture.  Assimilation means fitting in with current country's culture so no problems occur.

Keep your holidays and culture.  Keep your language.  But learn to live in the new society, and learn the new language as well.  That is NOT a nationalistic view, not a racist view, and not a bad view.  It makes sense in every bit of the word.




By your logic, we should allow women to be beat and treated like property just because someone comes from an area in the mid east that allows it.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> By your logic, we should allow women to be beat and treated like property just because someone comes from an area in the mid east that allows it.



Of course we shouldn't, that violates an actual law. As we have no national language and no law dictating what language they are speaking, by speaking only Spanish or German or French they are not violating any law as beating your wife would.

So say they are required to learn English by law, and they're in the process of learning, how do we service those who have not yet got a good enough grasp on the English language? Rome wasn't built in a week, after all.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> This is where you're just plain wrong.
> 
> Assimilation does not mean losing your culture. Assimilation means fitting in with current country's culture so no problems occur.
> 
> ...


 
Tolerance and respect are some things you need to understand.  

Do we not try to honor the different religions within reason?  Where does medicine draw the line for Jehovah's Witnesses?  

Respecting the laws of this country does not mean you have to speak the language.  Besides, look at how long it took the U.S. to recognize domestic violence was a crime and a major issue.   In this country it was also viewed as a "family thing" and not addressed until recently.


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## silver (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> This is where you're just plain wrong.
> 
> Assimilation does not mean losing your culture.  Assimilation means fitting in with current country's culture so no problems occur.
> 
> ...



excuse me I meant to add the words forced in front of assimilate...which is true that a person loses their culture. There should be no reason to force a language or way of life, if they want to prosper they will adapt at the rate they are comfortable with, which may be 1-2 generations or never. Since we have no official language, and the American society is always changing, I see no need to require immigrants to assimilate and they have the freedom not to and I respect their choice.
I also respect the idea that many people don't learn the language/culture because they want to go back home in a couple of years. However its a reality that immigrants don't always get a living wage and can not make it back home and end up staying.

And you are assuming that I dont believe in laws and ethics to protect people.

I want to emphasis "the language," English,  is just the norm of the U.S. and not official.

Edit:
Really assimilation does mean losing your culture many times.
For instance in some Islamic countries sharia and beating women is part of culture...


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Now we're getting into bad territory. I'm sure no one here wants a law stating learn English or go to jail. 

Speak any language you want. I do, with 4 of them. But don't force healthcare providers to learn a language if you're not going to tell/ask  immigrants to learn English.. The primary and dominant language of this country and every state within.  Why the double standard?


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Now we're getting into bad territory. I'm sure no one here wants a law stating learn English or go to jail.
> 
> Speak any language you want. I do, with 4 of them. But don't force healthcare providers to learn a language if you're not going to tell/ask immigrants to learn English.. *The primary and dominant language of this country and every state within.* *Why the double standard*?


 
No double standard. 
Not everyone chooses to work in a profession directly involving the care of patients of many nationalities.   

How many Americans living in other countries actually learn the language of that country?  Probably not very many.  They also seek out other English speaking residents.  

By your summation, Dade County, FL is over 65% Spanish speaking.  Should the other 35% be required to speak Spanish?   Believe it or not Spanish speaking people can not quality for certain benefits if their language is considered the dominant language in that area.  

Did you at least look up the reasons why the U.S. has not made a "law" making English as the formal language?  I gave some of the reasons in an earlier post.  I also told you what happened in Florida when it did make English as a state language.  But, since you have studied other languages, you should also have studied this and enough with the emotional whining.

Do you not understand why the educational systems in this country continues to promote other languages?  Maybe if we just eliminate all the language programs, that would force everyone to learn English.  But, can you see where there would be a problem with this?  

I find it very difficult to believe someone who claims to know so many languages can fail to see any benefit.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Vent, for the umpteenth time I never said don't learn otge languages. I never said there was no benefit. I simply said don't force someone to just to keep their job. 


The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.


 
He made the choice to move.  Those that live there should not have to bow to him and just speak "English".   He should have no complaints about any other language spoken if he made the choice to live in an area like Miami for an example.  If that job was to require that he be bilingual, then he has no reason to whine about it.  

I have no tolerance for the all American white racist attidude that says speak English because you are in this country.   It has been this mentality that has kept prejudice alive and well in this country.   This thread has gotten a little deeper than just requiring another language for a job.   The "live in my country, you better speak my language" attitude is one of intolerance.   The nasty prejudices for other nationalities have emerged and for health care professionals in the U.S., that is a sad statement.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Vent, for the umpteenth time I never said don't learn otge languages. I never said there was no benefit. I simply said don't force someone to just to keep their job.
> 
> 
> The double standard lies here; you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language. That's a double standard.



The one who moves to another city is signing up to help people. Being better at his job may require him to learn a second language, enough to effectively communicate with their patients.

I'm dissapointed that you don't seem to grasp that we adapt to fit our patients, our patients don't adapt to fit us.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 29, 2009)

MY OPINION:

CLOSE THE THREAD!!!  This has gone from a discussion on "Should a second language be mandatory for EMSers?" to a political and racial argument.  The pole speaks for itself.  30% think it is a good idea and 70% do not.  Question answered, beliefs stated... all this left is an argument where no one is going to change their political/social beliefs...


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

This thread is a good debate about the professional development of an EMT/Paramedic, sorry that it isn't about lights and sirens or something you're interested in.

If it bothers you so much, stay off of it, but don't ask for it to be closed while people are still having a civil debate. 

They could always move it to the EMS Lounge if they (The moderators) feel it's gotten off the EMS topic.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Wow vent. I can't believe you just pulled the racism card. Wow. 

Race has absolutley nothing to do with languages. I know of Hispanic orgin that can't speak a lick of Spanish. I also know Hispanic people who speak fluent Spanish learned at home and STILL thinks anyone moving to the US should learn English. 



You're also contradicting yourself on "he chose to move so be should speak a foreign language"

Guess what, the immigrant chose to move too, did he not?  So why do you exempt him for the language requirement?


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> This thread is a good debate about the professional development of an EMT/Paramedic, sorry that it isn't about lights and sirens or something you're interested in.
> 
> If it bothers you so much, stay off of it, but don't ask for it to be closed while people are still having a civil debate.



It stoped being an EMS debate many pages back and turned racial and cultural really quick.  No new EMS related arguments are being used, instead it is now about losing your culture, assemilation, immigration, aryan brotherhood, etc...  You are the only one still refering to EMS and patients in your thread.  Vent, Linuss, silver, etc... are now having an political arguement (in which people are being called racist) and not an EMS debate/discussion.  Civil left the room a long time ago...


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

Again, if you don't like it, stay off it. It's not a totally foreign and hard concept. If the moderators feel that it is not EMS related they have the option to move it to the EMS Lounge to join all the other non-EMS threads.

Asking it to be closed? Uhhh, we're still talking here.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Wow vent. I can't believe you just pulled the racism card. Wow.
> 
> Race has absolutley nothing to do with languages. I know of Hispanic orgin that can't speak a lick of Spanish. I also know Hispanic people who speak fluent Spanish learned at home and STILL thinks anyone moving to the US should learn English.
> 
> ...


 

I did not contradict myself.

Your statement:


> The double standard lies here; *you're saying a provider who moves to another city gets a great job with great pay and benefits to support his family, HAS to learn a language to cater to an immigrant/emigrant who moves to another country to support his family doesn't have to learn the primary language.* That's a double standard.


 
If that provider moves to Miami, knowing it is predominantly Spanish speaking, he made the choice.   Did this provider ever think the majority of his patients might speak Spanish?  Or, is being an EMT(P) just about the provider and the patient is just an inconvenience?

But since you don't read the posts very well, let me repeat why I pulled the "race card". 



> I have no tolerance for the all American white racist attidude that says speak English because you are in this country. It has been this mentality that has kept prejudice alive and well in this country. This thread has gotten a little deeper than just requiring another language for a job. The "live in my country, you better speak my language" attitude is one of intolerance. The nasty prejudices for other nationalities have emerged and for health care professionals in the U.S., that is a sad statement.


 
Other healthcare professionals just take learning a little bit of another language in stride because it is part of their degree programs. Some in EMS must complain anytime the word "education" is used. Of course there is no way to require another language for EMS when we can not even require a college level A&P class.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Vent, I'm all for it as education, or even a degree requirement, but not a job requirement. 




And since you missed my view on the contradiction:  the immigrant moved to a country where the primary language is English. Should he or should he not have to learn English before getting a job?


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Vent, I'm all for it as education, or even a degree requirement, but not a job requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Americans rarely learn the language of the country they may relocate to. 

And do you not think there are areas in this country were people do predominatly speak another language? How arrogant of you to think there should be just one language for this country! Do you even know why some people do come to this country? Do you think they even gave learning another language a thought as some were fleeing for their lives? What about those so poor that they must risk their lives to cross the border to earn a few dollars? Do you think they would rather be working in their own home neighborhoods rather than commuting through a tunnel across the border?

If you live and work in an area where there is another language spoken, that employer should be able to require a person to be bilingual and to hire the most qualified.  If two candidates are both Paramedics but one speaks Spanish, guess which one would be best suited for a hospital or EMS job in Miami?


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Let's see... I live in fort worth, where the north and and east end are predomintely Hispanic. I was raised near Dearborn Michigan, the single largest concentration of Arabs outside of the middle east. I lived in Florida for 5 years. I'm quite sure I'm used to dealing with forei



It's ok vent, I still love you.   In a totally Herero? Never seen you but speak to you on the interwebs, kind of way.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Let's see... I live in fort worth, where the north and and east end are predomintely Hispanic. I was raised near Dearborn Michigan, the single largest concentration of Arabs outside of the middle east. I lived in Florida for 5 years. I'm quite sure I'm used to dealing with forei
> 
> 
> 
> It's ok vent, I still love you. In a totally Herero? Never seen you but speak to you on the interwebs, kind of way.


 

Then you should have just a small understanding.

It is like being called the n word all your life.

Some just assume you are uneducated because you don't speak English or have a certain color of skin. How many times have we heard about "neighborhood profiling" on the EMS forums? Some in EMS don't even ask if they speak English and just start treating certain nationalities as uneducated, lower race idiots the minute they role up to a scene. I've been on both sides of that.

Yes I still love you but you are p....... me off.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

> It's ok vent, I still love you. In a totally Herero? Never seen you but speak to you on the interwebs, kind of way





> Yes I still love you but you are p....... me off.



Awwweeee and they say there is too much hostility on this forum!


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## Ridryder911 (Apr 29, 2009)

Ironically, it appears that my state will be passing a State Law that declares that English language will be its primary language. For many factors as discussed also as a costs factor. Duplication and mandating of every paper and instruction in numerous languages is too costly and ridiculous. 

I do argue that one should not have to be mandated to have a secondary language, especially within our own territorial borders. Spanish is third to tribal languages in most of my area, would this mean medics have to learn Native American Indian tribal languages (since there are about ten popular ones) and then Spanish and so on?... Ridiculous! 

They make interpreter products for both field and in-hospital. Cheaper, less expensive and unless one has been certified as being accountable as a "medical interpreter" liability is a risk. Are you for sure, that they (medics) interpreted the foreign language properly? I have seen too many blunders made from well meaning interpreters. 

Common sense has to be used in such matters. 

R/r 911


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Awwweeee and they say there is too much hostility on this forum!



Okay...  I'll relent...  Sa_*c*_ha... I love you, but you often pi** me off too.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 29, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Ironically, it appears that my state will be passing a State Law that declares that English language will be its primary language. For many factors as discussed also as a costs factor. Duplication and mandating of every paper and instruction in numerous languages is too costly and ridiculous.



If I remember correctly, California tried this years ago, but it was latter declared unconstitutional by the courts.  Be interesting to see if it passes and makes any difference.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Ironically, it appears that my state will be passing a State Law that declares that English language will be its primary language. For many factors as discussed also as a costs factor. Duplication and mandating of every paper and instruction in numerous languages is too costly and ridiculous.


 
Then you need to read what happened to Florida when they did that. That is one reason why few states have considered this idea since that stupid law was passed in 1988 in Florida.

Are the majority of calls on the reservations? There is probably a good chance some in Oklahoma could go for months or even years without hearing anything other than English. You situation may not be the same as comparing other cities like Miami.

Also, when a state is considering passing such a bill, it is usually spurred by arrogant/ignorant thinking of those who are afraid of them foreigners moving into the area.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> They make interpreter products for both field and in-hospital. Cheaper, less expensive and unless one has been certified as being accountable as a "medical interpreter" liability is a risk. Are you for sure, that they (medics) interpreted the foreign language properly? I have seen too many blunders made from well meaning interpreters.
> 
> R/r 911



Ironically I've asked about the use of interperter services a couple times on this thread and it hadn't been answered.

Funnily enough, English is Florida's official language and there are far more Spanish speakers than English speakers.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> If I remember correctly, California tried this years ago, but it was latter declared unconstitutional by the courts. Be interesting to see if it passes and makes any difference.


 
Getting cut off from some funding at the Federal level as well as making a bad name with the international tourists kinda hurts.   It primarily hurts the schools that rely on this funding.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

> Okay... I'll relent... Sacha... I love you, but you often pi** me off too.



Seriously dude? My name is SASHA With an SH not a CH. It is explicitly spelt in my user name. 

It's pretty crappy that you find the need to be argumentative and childish in an attempt to tick me off by deliberately misspelling my name.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Funnily enough, English is Florida's official language and there are far more Spanish speakers than English speakers.


 
Again it was a knee jerk ballot thing after the boatlift because some were afraid of all them Cubans.

It was also a big mistake.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

I just looked up the Oklahoma Bill SB 163 to make English the only language. Got a good laugh and again am truly disappointed by the attitudes of some. This is about the politicians and not the needs of the people. And, try to get the Native Americans to assimilate? 

http://www.oksenate.gov/news/press_releases/press_releases_2008/pr20080507e.html



> “The Senate Democrats’ substitute language is just a piece of paper that does not change the status quo. It still requires the state to expend funds to provide unnecessary translations for government services. Our version would have stopped the silly lawsuits that seek to force our state to provide services in any number of foreign languages,” said Sen. Anthony Sykes, R-Moore.


 
Anybody guess, especially those in Florida, where the funding comes from to help pay for translators? Since the passage of the English Only Bill, that service does not have to be paid for by public funds. Most hospitals still provide the service because the accrediting agencies feel it is part of a patient's right to be able to communicate with their health care providers about their medical treatment. That also goes along with the right to refuse some medical treatment.


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## VFFforpeople (Apr 29, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> He made the choice to move.  Those that live there should not have to bow to him and just speak "English".   He should have no complaints about any other language spoken if he made the choice to live in an area like Miami for an example.  If that job was to require that he be bilingual, then he has no reason to whine about it.
> 
> I have no tolerance for the all American white racist attidude that says speak English because you are in this country.   It has been this mentality that has kept prejudice alive and well in this country.   This thread has gotten a little deeper than just requiring another language for a job.   The "live in my country, you better speak my language" attitude is one of intolerance.   The nasty prejudices for other nationalities have emerged and for health care professionals in the U.S., that is a sad statement.




On the grounds of English, you actually did contradict and or make a double standard. Did the lets say Cuban because you talk about Miami like it is the saint of all cities in the US. Did the Cuban think about learning english before coming to a country that speak English? I don't think so, thus you just made a double standard to your argument and you can argue it all you want, but it still stands as such. Also, calling me prejudice, that makes you ignorant. I took spanish 2yrs, french 7yrs, german 1yr, know what I learned? Nothing that had to do with anything that applied to medical or real world applications. Most of them have a slang or improper dialect such as english. You ever consider the people responding on here have taking foreing language classes, before making such an ASSumption? Why should I have to learn spanish? french? german? or any other language? My family has had its roots in the US long before the Mayflower. Now I get to call you ignorant for not defending my peoples language, or any other language other than your spanish.


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

> Why should I have to learn spanish? french? german?



Because if you have a big Spanish, French or German population you will be learning how to better service your patients, which is why I mentioned awhile ago foreign language classes geared specifically towards health care providers.



> My family has had its roots in the US long before the Mayflower. Now I get to call you ignorant for not defending my peoples language, or any other language other than your spanish.



And your families ancestors were conquered and integrated into American culture through means of forced assimilation. Your people may have their language, but I have never heard of any tribal language classes. The Seminoles were big in Florida, the only time I hear anything that remotely sounds Seminole is when I look at street signs or county names. Granted, I don't know if there are reservations in Florida or where they are, but if I worked in an EMS system that ran on a reservation and there were CLASSES AVAILABLE I would make an effort to learn the language, as I think Vent would as well.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> On the grounds of English, you actually did contradict and or make a double standard. Did the lets say Cuban because you talk about Miami like it is the saint of all cities in the US. Did the Cuban think about learning english before coming to a country that speak English? I don't think so, thus you just made a double standard to your argument and you can argue it all you want, but it still stands as such. Also, calling me prejudice, that makes you ignorant. I took spanish 2yrs, french 7yrs, german 1yr, know what I learned? *Nothing that had to do with anything that applied to medical or real world applications*. Most of them have a slang or improper dialect such as english. You ever consider the people responding on here have taking foreing language classes, before making such an ASSumption? Why should I have to learn spanish? french? german? or any other language? My family has had its roots in the US long before the Mayflower. Now I get to call you ignorant for not defending my peoples language, or any other language other than your spanish.


 
Do you know the history of Florida?

Do you know how long the Cubans have been in Florida? The Spanish?

Do know anything about Baptista, Castro or the Bay of Pigs?

Gee, in times of persecution and revolution, learning English to go to a land which some of their Spanish ancestors already helped to establish might not have been a thought at the time.

Do you also know the role the U.S. played in the Mariel Boatlift? Again, I don't think President Carter gave the Cubans enough time to learn English. But wait, their families who spoke Spanish were already in Miami.

Now, do you want to talk about NYC or SF?



> I took spanish 2yrs, french 7yrs, german 1yr, know what I learned?
> *Nothing that had to do with anything that applied to medical or real world applications. *


 
And you found all of that a waste of time? Then why did you even take the courses beyond the required?

As I said before, some in EMS just belong in the grunt and groan club. 

I am a medical professional that lives in the real world. I use whatever skill and education I have for the benefit of my patients, not for the selfish opinions of some EMS providers who believe it is all about them and not the patient.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm not going to close this thread at this time, but I will be keeping an eye on it.  Take the racism discussions elsewhere, and stick to the topic being discussed or become the focus of my complete and undivided attention.


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## VentMedic (Apr 29, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> My family has had its roots in the US long before the Mayflower. Now I get to call you ignorant for not defending my peoples language, or any other language other than your spanish.


 
You didn't even bother reading my posts or you would have seen that I did reference the Native Americans including that Oklahoma English Only Bill. 

Florida's Native American Tribes:
http://www.native-languages.org/florida.htm

Do you also know how the majority of Florida's Native Americans got to Oklahoma?  Now that is a sad part of Florida's history.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Seriously dude? My name is SASHA With an SH not a CH. It is explicitly spelt in my user name.
> 
> It's pretty crappy that you find the need to be argumentative and childish in an attempt to tick me off by deliberately misspelling my name.






My money was on he was joking, hence the bolded / italicized "c".


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## Sasha (Apr 29, 2009)

Hence I had corrected soemone on the spelling yesterday in another thread, so he knew it was something that'd tick me off, which is why he brought attention to it.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 29, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Hence I had corrected soemone on the spelling yesterday in another thread, so he knew it was something that'd tick me off, which is why he brought attention to it.




Yeah... well...



RAWR!


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## VFFforpeople (May 1, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Do you know the history of Florida?
> 
> Do you know how long the Cubans have been in Florida? The Spanish?
> 
> ...



Ya lets talk SF I live in cali, been there. Do you know how many different kinds of languages there are there? 

Ya I know history thanks. I state once again and has been brought up before. You can learn all the languages what happens if you dont interpret something right? Miss diagnose and they flatline? Now what? You are being sued. That is the real world thanks that everyone lives in. I am all about patient care and the best for them, ect. When it comes to dominance in an area for language and lets say spanish...what about your 1.2% German speaking people? Now you are failing them and letting them down. So, you still fail either way you cut the pie, and dont say well atleast I can help the majority. That is then saying that the language spoken the most is more important than that or the lesser. Really it is a double-edge sword where there is no real wrong or right answer. We can debate this all day long and still run into the same problem, we will always fail to meet the needs of the people 100%. We can lessen by learning a dominant language ok, if that was you chose. Being forced to have to learn a language is not right. I would bet everything I own that if that happens and you get "paragods" like your-self running around translating and you mess up you will be in court, your company will be in court, and you will be mailing you card back to NR. The cons of financial back lash due to the need to have to raise insurance for thus reason. If you want to learn it great, I say go for it better your education. (be prepared to learn all dialects and beable to pronounce the words properly. One slip up it could be it.)


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## Sasha (May 1, 2009)

> Miss diagnose and they flatline?





> One slip up it could be it.



The body works the same, Spanish, French, American, British, Japanese, Haitian, what have you. If you give a medication that some how makes them flat line because of a language barrier, you deserve to lose your cert.

I can't think of a single instance where this would happen. (maybe because it's early.) Since you mentioned it so much, surely you have an example? Or are you spouting off about something you THINK might be able to happen without any actual education behind it?


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## VentMedic (May 1, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> *Ya lets talk SF I live in cali, been there. Do you know how many different kinds of languages there are there? *
> 
> Ya I know history thanks. I state once again and has been brought up before. You can learn all the languages what happens if you dont interpret something right? *Miss diagnose and they flatline?* Now what? You are being sued. That is the real world thanks that everyone lives in. I am all about patient care and the best for them, ect. When it comes to dominance in an area for language and lets say spanish...what about your 1.2% German speaking people? Now you are failing them and letting them down. So, you still fail either way you cut the pie, and dont say well atleast I can help the majority. That is then saying that the language spoken the most is more important than that or the lesser. Really it is a double-edge sword where there is no real wrong or right answer. We can debate this all day long and still run into the same problem, we will always fail to meet the needs of the people 100%. We can lessen by learning a dominant language ok, if that was you chose. Being forced to have to learn a language is not right. I would bet everything* I own that if that happens and you get "paragods" like your-self running around translating and you mess up you will be in court,* your company will be in court, and you will be mailing you card back to NR. The cons of financial back lash due to the need to have to raise insurance for thus reason. If you want to learn it great, I say go for it better your education. (be prepared to learn all dialects and beable to pronounce the words properly. One slip up it could be it.)


 
Misdiagnose and flatline?
Spoken like an EMT-B with very little knowledge of medicine to back up what you are saying about language. If you misdiagnose and flatline you have more problems than language. 

I am in SF right now and yes I do enjoy the diverstiy here. I also enjoy the fact that EMS has so many employees of many different nationalities who are multilingual. They don't seem to have the same closed mind attitude you do. It makes for a great team effort to give good patient care. You need to see just how diverse California is and get out more.


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## BossyCow (May 1, 2009)

Most europeans are multi-lingual. Being able to understand more than one language is a life skill unrelated to your beliefs on the policies of immigration. It amazes me how many americans are offended at the suggestion that they learn how to speak more than one language. 

I speak english fluently, french well enough to be understood but sneered at by all but French Canadians, and enough spanish to find out what hurts where on a patient, and enough to cuss out a jerk in a bar. The only Italian I know is either food related or obscene. 

We shouldn't have to make being multi-lingual mandatory. It shouldn't have to be. Most thinking individuals learn another language other than their language at birth.


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## VFFforpeople (May 1, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Misdiagnose and flatline?
> Spoken like an EMT-B with very little knowledge of medicine to back up what you are saying about language. If you misdiagnose and flatline you have more problems than language.
> 
> I am in SF right now and yes I do enjoy the diverstiy here. I also enjoy the fact that EMS has so many employees of many different nationalities who are multilingual. They don't seem to have the same closed mind attitude you do. It makes for a great team effort to give good patient care. You need to see just how diverse California is and get out more.



I am not closed minded, but thanks. I have been in california my whole life, from the bay, to LA, to up here in redding. Ya it is great, having so many different kinds of people. I am friends with 100% south korean,a mexican, a few african americans,germans, all sorts of people. I have taken the time to learn some languages and did enjoy it. To say be manditory it shouldn't have to be not everyone enjoys it. You have a pretty big soap box your preach from, and I think you need to step down from it. I come from a family of nurses so thanks I do have knowledge past basic. You want to talk real world, then here it is up front, people die no matter what you do, regardless of what they can speak. I don't care if you got 4.0 from all your classes, they will die. You speak as if your a god, that you can save everyone and your so great we should kneel before you. I am taking an agree to disagree stance of this because if you are going to learn a language awesome! I did! If you don't want to, then thats your choice and you have that right. To call someone ignorant for not learning something like you have makes you just as bad. Especially when the person you are calling ignorant knows 3 other languages. Guessing that is more than you know. My final post to this thread. Manditory No. Simple as that, I wish you luck in your job and what not, and if we meet I like to shake your hand on a great debate and think you are a smart person. I have looked into expanding my 3 languages to know medical phrases and terms. Also, signed up for medic school. That is what I have taken from the debate.


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## medic417 (May 1, 2009)

medic417 said:


> No habla inglish.  Quite toda la ropas hora.  Que dolor mi pecho.  Ayuda mi.  No tengo dinero.  Donde esta.  Quin necesita ayuda?
> 
> Ok.



So did anyone do as I told them with this statement "Quite toda la ropas hora"?


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## Sasha (May 1, 2009)

VFFforpeople said:


> I am not closed minded, but thanks. I have been in california my whole life, from the bay, to LA, to up here in redding. Ya it is great, having so many different kinds of people. I am friends with 100% south korean,a mexican, a few african americans,germans, all sorts of people. I have taken the time to learn some languages and did enjoy it. To say be manditory it shouldn't have to be not everyone enjoys it. You have a pretty big soap box your preach from, and I think you need to step down from it. I come from a family of nurses so thanks I do have knowledge past basic. You want to talk real world, then here it is up front, people die no matter what you do, regardless of what they can speak. I don't care if you got 4.0 from all your classes, they will die. You speak as if your a god, that you can save everyone and your so great we should kneel before you. I am taking an agree to disagree stance of this because if you are going to learn a language awesome! I did! If you don't want to, then thats your choice and you have that right. To call someone ignorant for not learning something like you have makes you just as bad. Especially when the person you are calling ignorant knows 3 other languages. Guessing that is more than you know. My final post to this thread. Manditory No. Simple as that, I wish you luck in your job and what not, and if we meet I like to shake your hand on a great debate and think you are a smart person. I have looked into expanding my 3 languages to know medical phrases and terms. Also, signed up for medic school. That is what I have taken from the debate.




You have yet to list an example of where misinterperting a word would mean flatlining the patient.


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## Mountain Res-Q (May 1, 2009)

medic417 said:


> So did anyone do as I told them with this statement "Quite toda la ropas hora"?



First we all have to learn to speak another language... and now you want them to learn to read another... some here can barley read English....


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## VFFforpeople (May 2, 2009)

medic417 said:


> So did anyone do as I told them with this statement "Quite toda la ropas hora"?



So you want to remove all the clothes? your broke? with chest pain? and someone named quin needs help. and you don't know where you are.


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## Medix (May 10, 2009)

Only a few words from here: in Germany we have to learn some basic English in all public schools and advanced English in junior high and secondary school. In junior high an secondary school we often also have to learn french.

I'm glad about that, because we often have patients (tourists, foreign citizens) who don't speak our language. In many cases we can talk to them in English. We need to communicate to our patients if we want to make them feel save.


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## Melclin (May 13, 2009)

I reckon if you're involved in the community in any way, you should make an effort to know a few basic of the languages you will come into contact with. It shouldn't be mandatory or anything. For me it includes vietnamese, a sudanese dialect of two and sign language. 

Sign language is a big one for me. I just think its good manners to make an effort to communicate with people in a way that's comfortable for them.


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## WannaBeFlight (Jun 6, 2009)

Personally, there is alot of grey area with this... Yes, adults that are immigrants should definately know english, or at least enough to carry a conversation with you. The down side is that children are not being encouraged to use english in the home (cause the parents dont) and it never helps when trying to communicate with a child. I work in family practice and in order for the hispanic children to trust you, you have to get on their level, literally, and speak to them in spanish, otherwise if you talk to them in english they typically cry, or run away and hide. It makes treating them harder too when the parents dont speak english either. Unfortuantely our government has made things very easy for immigrants to NOT HAVE to learn that it is impacting society greately. I was appalled when I went in to renew my drivers license and there were spanish booklets with all of the road signs and such in spanish. !!!!  WTF?  Last time I checked the road signs are not in dual languages up here, maybe in Florida, but not here!
 I give up...I am not sure where I stand...Nevermind!  <_<


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## Seaglass (Jun 8, 2009)

I think it's useful, but I don't think it should be required. In my area, you'd need to speak like 20 languages to be able to interact with all of the patients anyways. Usually patience and charades go a long way.


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## 46Young (Jun 8, 2009)

From my personal observations, at least in the five boroughs, a good number of immigrants legal or illegal, particularly of Central/South American origin, will move to their respective barrio, and live there almost exclusively. There are few attempts to assimilate into the American culture. It's almost like they move here, but they change their surroundings to make it like they're still in their native country. America has a habit of catering to immigrants, giving them everything, and requiring little to nothing in return. Mandating proficiency in another language as a condition of employment is one such example of catering, along with free medical benefits, and such. If it were somehow possible to apply for illegal status here, I could save money on healthcare, income tax, and not need a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle. If you're new to this country, you're probably here because your current situation was intolerable. I can't fault someone for wanting to improve their socioeconomic status by moving here. I'm generally respectful and understanding towards immigrants that I come into contact with. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're here to provide for their family, and intend to do the right thing. Some initial aid is warranted, but the immigrant should be required to become a productive member of society, which involves working and speaking english. No one forced them to come here(human trafficking notwithstanding). I can understand if someone can't speak english initially, but not five years after living here. Having said that, I believe that we, as medical providers, have a moral obligation to serve our pts to the best of our ability. That includes making an earnest attempt to learn the languages, at least in part, of our primary service area. I've learned enough spanish to be able to gain a full Hx, and to treat appeopriately. I also became tired of those who feign ignorance due to language barrier.


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## VentMedic (Jun 8, 2009)

46Young said:


> I also became tired of those who feign ignorance due to language barrier.


 
If you do not have a decent command of their language or an understanding of their culture, how can you fairly judge them?



> No one forced them to come here


 
Ever take a history class or even read a paper for current events?


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## 46Young (Jun 8, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> If you do not have a decent command of their language or an understanding of their culture, how can you fairly judge them?
> 
> 
> 
> Ever take a history class or even read a paper for current events?



I know more than a few simple catch phrases. As soon as I start speaking spanish, all of a sudden they stop "playing dumb" as to whatever I was asking. I can tell usually tell the difference from someone who genuinely doesn't know the language, and someone who says "no engish" to avoid the situation. What current events are you referring to? If you're referring to refugees, there are many more countries to seek refuge in. G.B. throws all kind of free stuff to their immigrants.


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## VentMedic (Jun 8, 2009)

46Young said:


> I know more than a few simple catch phrases. As soon as I start speaking spanish, all of a sudden they stop "playing dumb" as to whatever I was asking. I can tell usually tell the difference from someone who genuinely doesn't know the language, and someone who says "no engish" to avoid the situation. What current events are you referring to? If you're referring to refugees, there are many more countries to seek refuge in. G.B. throws all kind of free stuff to their immigrants.


 

I again stand by my previous statements.


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## chfite (Jun 16, 2009)

It would take more than a simple understanding of another language to be able to perform a competent assessment of any significant problem.  If you factor in the cultural differences, it becomes all the more problematic.  

I exercise extreme caution and cover all the bases in treating those who are not fluent in English.  I will not accept a refusal from those who are not fluent in English.


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## VentMedic (Jun 17, 2009)

chfite said:


> I exercise extreme caution and cover all the bases in treating those who are not fluent in English. *I will not accept a refusal from those who are not fluent in English*.


 
So you are saying that people who don't speak English have no rights?

This is when you and your company need to have access to a qualified interpreter service.


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## medic417 (Jun 17, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> So you are saying that people who don't speak English have no rights?
> 
> This is when you and your company need to have access to a qualified interpreter service.



I just saw that statement of not accepting refusals as well and wondering how many people they have now kidnapped by forcing them to go when they had every legal right to say no.


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## reaper (Jun 17, 2009)

Yes, You have no legal right to not allow them to refuse, just because they can not speak English. They still have the same rights as any other pt. It is up to you, to make sure they understand what you are telling them! 

As stated, this is called Kidnapping,Assault and battery and unethical practices. Might want to rethink that way of doing things!


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## Patrol42 (Jun 19, 2009)

Nah, but I am fluent in Spanish. I can understand Portuguese and Italian pretty, well enough to understand what they say a good bit of the time, but as for mandatory: no. Perhaps bilingual incentives, like a little bit more pay, like the military.


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## ResTech (Jun 19, 2009)

This is America... we speak English... that is OUR language. If you want to live here then learn the language. Don't expect to reap all the benefits of living in this country and not have to do something as basic as learn the language. 

Personally, I am really sick of having to flip boxes and products around just to find the English product description and/or instructions. I could get on my soapbox about the influx of immigrants into this country... especially from Mexico... but that wouldnt be appropriate for this forum. 

So to answer the question... no... it should not be mandatory. If someone can;t communicate in an emergency due to a language barrier... it's their problem... not mine. 

Why should I have to go through the headache and hassle and maybe even expense of learning their language when they should be the ones going through the headache, hassle, and expense of learning ours!


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## medic417 (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> This is America... we speak English... that is OUR language.



Is that the law?  Is it actually our official language?


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## Sasha (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> This is America... we speak English... that is OUR language.



America has no nationally declared language. It just so happens that the majority speaks English.



> So to answer the question... no... it should not be mandatory. If someone can;t communicate in an emergency due to a language barrier... it's their problem... not mine.



I wholeheartedly disagree. They are your patient, so it is your problem.



> Why should I have to go through the headache and hassle and maybe even expense of learning their language when they should be the ones going through the headache, hassle, and expense of learning ours!



Because you chose to be in a profession that deals with people, they didn't choose to have an emergency.


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## ResTech (Jun 19, 2009)

Sasha... the majority rules... ever since this Country was founded... ENGLISH has been the primary language. I don't think we need an official declaration to state English is the dominant language of the United States of America. 

And to a point, it is my problem because it causes more of a headache for me to figure out their symptoms and whats going on... but ultimately it is their problem... their lack of motivation to learn the language where they reside is all on them.. not me. If I knew I would be moving to a Country that spoke something other then English... then I would try to get into a language class prior to moving and continually work on it til I became proficient.

Your right, they didn't choose to have an emergency... and I didn't choose for them to move here (a lot of the times illegally) and not learn how to speak. Why should I have to sit in a classroom for months and go through the hassle of learning a language I have no desire in learning and take time from my family or career solely because they fail to meet their basic obligation of living in this county!

AN IMMIGRANT HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO LEARN ENGLISH... DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM OR PICK UP WHERE THEY FAIL. IT GIVES THEM MORE INCENTIVE NOT TO LEARN ENGLISH!!!!!!!!


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## flhtci01 (Jun 19, 2009)

I don't think they should be required to know a second language.  It’s great if they learn one on their own.  For me it’s German but I don’t get much of a chance to use it.

I carry a PDA with a multi-language dictionary. English, Brazilian, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Swedish. We have a number of Hispanics in the area I wish it had Polish and Croat because I could use those at times.


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## medic417 (Jun 19, 2009)

Why do they have the responsibility?  Is it the law?  Honestly if a survey was done there may be as many or more people that could speak Spanish than English.  The USA was founded by immigrants, why should we change that now?  If we want to get down to it we should all be speaking a Native American language rather than English as the immigrants that spoke English should have learned it since they decided to come here.


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## Sasha (Jun 19, 2009)

> AN IMMIGRANT HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO LEARN ENGLISH... DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM OR PICK UP WHERE THEY FAIL. IT GIVES THEM MORE INCENTIVE NOT TO LEARN ENGLISH!!!!!!!!



How do you know if they've been in the country long enough to learn English? It's a long, lengthy process and English is one of the hardest languages to learn.



> Sasha... the majority rules... ever since this Country was founded... ENGLISH has been the primary language. I don't think we need an official declaration to state English is the dominant language of the United States of America.



That's incorrect. In some areas of the country, Miami, parts of Texas and California, for example, Spanish is the dominant language, although the majority does speak English. Of course, we are referring not to the number of speakers as majority, but those who are ecnomically dominant as the majority.



> and I didn't choose for them to move here *(a lot of the times illegally)*



Also, have you looked at requirements to legally immigrate to this country? Most Americans wouldn't make the cut, no wonder people have to sneak in.


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## flhtci01 (Jun 19, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Because you chose to be in a profession that deals with people, they didn't choose to have an emergency.



I agree BUT I have had an emergency in another country where they refused to attempt to speak English when dealing with the emergency.  I had made the attempt to learn their language prior to traveling and we were able to communicate.  I feel they were very understanding of my poor language skills.  

I work a seasonal job at a destination resort and we get people from around the world that speak many languages. It is not possible for a responder to know all the languages.  People just need to attempt to learn English.


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## ResTech (Jun 19, 2009)

> Honestly if a survey was done there may be as many or more people that could speak Spanish than English.



Yeah, that's the problem.


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## medic417 (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> Yeah, that's the problem.



Why?  Again if any language should be spoken here it should be a Native American one not English.


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## VentMedic (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> ... the majority rules... ever since this Country was founded... ENGLISH has been the primary language. I don't think we need an official declaration to state English is the dominant language of the United States of America.


 
Actually this country was largely under the Spanish flag while the Native Americans were the first residents.  And, did you see the make up of this country doing election time and why certain populations were being catered to? Did you also notice some public office candidates or those campaigning for them speaking Spanish when addressing crowds? If the Presidents of this country have no problem with this country being made up of many races or different nationalities speaking many languages why should you?



ResTech said:


> AN IMMIGRANT HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO LEARN ENGLISH... DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM OR PICK UP WHERE THEY FAIL. IT GIVES THEM MORE INCENTIVE NOT TO LEARN ENGLISH!!!!!!!!


 
This does not sound like the words of a medical professional. These are words that state intolerance and incite hatred. I might expect something like this to come out of the mouth of James Von Brunn or a member of his klan that have beaten up Spanish speaking young people in Miami when they heard them speaking something other the English. In San Francisco they killed a couple of young Chinese men on a public street for speaking something other than English. Whatever these groups call themselves or code they live by, they use the same statements to incite their followers.


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## ResTech (Jun 19, 2009)

> This does not sound like the words of a medical professional.



Your statements following this quote are a bit of a reach. Regardless of my profession... I am still a US citizen with an opinion. Granted, sometimes it needs to be kept within.. but I am not the only one who shares this opinion. A large majority of this country does not like what is taking place. I dont have a problem with the President but he is just a person and an agenda. So if the next president has a problem with English speaking ppl becoming a minority that is ok and you will then shift gears and follow that leader? Nah... thats ok. 

I am not racist at all and treat all my patients in a non-judgemental and totally objective manner. However, it does not take away my feelings that they should speak English. After all, it will make their life easier while living here.


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## medic417 (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> A large majority of this country does not like what is taking place.



Really when a large percentage are immigrants and a large percentage speak some form of Spanish.  Just think you are spouting opinion and calling it a fact.


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## VentMedic (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> A large majority of this country does not like what is taking place.


 
You definitely need to put up the figures on that one.  Did you miss the whole Presidential election?  This was discussed over and over.


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## ResTech (Jun 19, 2009)

I'll agree to disagree... we all have our own personal feelings on this issue as do a lot of ppl and with some it is a hot topic of debate. Its not really a hot topic for me.. I just have my view and opinion and is what I was portraying.


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## VentMedic (Jun 19, 2009)

ResTech said:


> I'll agree to disagree... we all have our own personal feelings on this issue as do a lot of ppl and with some it is a hot topic of debate. Its not really a hot topic for me.. I just have my view and opinion and is what I was portraying.


 
Just bring up some numbers to back up the statements you made.

I hate to think that someone would cop such a "speak English attitude" with my mother during an emergency just because I chose to have her living in the U.S. with me.  I thought this is the United States which is a melting pot of nationalities and she would be welcome.


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## medic417 (Jun 19, 2009)

No entiendo nada.  Disculpame pero no entiendo muy bien el ingles.  Hasta luego.


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## ResTech (Jun 19, 2009)

Welcome yes... with open arms... however, if your gonna be here to fall into open arms... speak English. That is all I am advocating.  I don't have any actual statistics but I do have anecdotal observation from my own region and travels and from reading and watching the news and opinion polls from national news sites. Wrong or right... its my opinion.


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## medic417 (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you for saying it is opinion.  When you make something look like a fact we expect to see the numbers to back up the statement.


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## 46Young (Jun 20, 2009)

I'll never give someone grief for not being able to speak english, or coming to this country for a better deal. Totally understandable. The original question was if it should be mandatory to demonstrate proficiency in other languages as a condition of employment. Mandatory, no. As a financial incentive, absolutely. English is a difficult language to learn as a first language(take a good look as America's youth, particularly in the inner cities), let alone as a second language. it can take many years to master, but there are those that come here and refuse to make any effort to assimilate, and choosing to remain in their neighborhood most of the time. A board or book with pictures with a description in several languages(show them cx pain, diff breathing, dizz, nausea, etc, to cover the bases) can be helpful in the instance of a language barrier. A 24/7 language line would be ideal for this purpose. Sometimes, you can get lucky and get a school age child at the residence to reanslate. Mandating foreign language proficiency is wrong, and is another instance of the U.S. catering to immigrants at the expense of the citizens. While we're on the subject of catering, how many hospitals have closed recently due to a scourge of uncompensated cases? In Queens NY alone, I've seen St. Joe's, Mary Immaculate, and St. John's on the boulevard close for that reason. Every so often you hear of a pt who comes here, gets admitted for whatever, and receives care from 100K into the millions(uncompensated), while the hosp can do nothing about it, as sending the currently stabilized pt back to their country of origin is illegal? Legal citizens can be denied specialized care for the same condition, if they lack insurance. Look at the elderly in the U.S. who are on fixed incomes, cannot afford their meds, or a home health aide if needed. Also, how do illegal ailens(undocumented is too cutesy) get legit driver's licenses and mortgages? I can't figure that one out. I went off on a tangent to give examples of "catering".


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## 46Young (Jun 20, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLJxmJZXgNI


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

http://forums.emsresponder.com/showthread.php?t=87534  I found this amusing. Check out post #4:


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> http://forums.emsresponder.com/showthread.php?t=87534 I found this amusing. Check out post #4:


 
Are you saying that people who speak a foreign language are illegals?

That is hardly the case in many areas.  My family was here legally as were the families of my neighbors.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

I was referring specifically to post #4. It's not a news article or anything, but another example of catering to illegals. I have some spanish blood myself.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

Why doesn't anyone have anything to say about posts #164 and 165?


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> I was referring specifically to post #4. It's not a news article or anything, but another example of catering to illegals. I have some spanish blood myself.


 
Do you claim yourself as Hispanic on job applications? Do you speak Spanish with your parents? 

Again, just because someone speaks a foreign language does not mean someone is an illegal.

If you want to get into bashing illegals, start another thread.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

No, i'm 1/4, and don't attempt to use it for personal gain. The thread was about learning other languages as a condition of employment. I believe this is one of many exmples of catering to illegals. If we were to go to various third world countries and ask for a free ride, and fully compensated medical care, we would be laughed at, and turned loose on the street to die.


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> No, i'm 1/4, and don't attempt to use it for personal gain. The thread was about learning other languages as a condition of employment. I believe this is one of many exmples of catering to illegals. If we were to go to various third world countries and ask for a free ride, and fully compensated medical care, we would be laughed at, and turned loose on the street to die.


 
So you still associate speaking a foreign language, which is the topic of this thread, as now catering to the illegals. 

And, if someone is Hispanic and lists that on their job application they are seeking personal gain? What do you want them to do? Lie on the application?

I guess you haven't traveled very much either. An American can get very good medical care in other countries reqardless of the language spoken. 

BTW, where do you think some Americans get their medications that they can not get in this country either for financial or FDA reasons?  This also goes for many many medical procedures.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

Explain to me how what I've said thus far in regards to catering to illegals isn't true, and how it doesn't happen in today's society.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> So you still associate speaking a foreign language, which is the topic of this thread, as now catering to the illegals.
> 
> And, if someone is Hispanic and lists that on their job application they are seeking personal gain? What do you want them to do? Lie on the application?
> 
> I guess you haven't traveled very much either.  An American can get very good medical care in other countries reqardless of the language spoken.



It's catering if it's mandated. I never said it's wrong to learn other languages, it's actually beneficial and good customer service. It should be a financial incentive, not a barrier to employment. These third world countries will give  U.S. citizens a full Tx course, such as neurosurgery, cancer Tx, organ transplants, and long term managed care without compensation? Then, why are individuals coming here for such treatments if it's readily available(for free, as it is here for them) in their country of origin?


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

Yes, there are those that go to Canada or Mexico and paying cash for meds, or dental treatments and such. Their medical coverage is inadequate. Different story if illegals are coming here and getting FREE meds and treatments.


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> Explain to me how what I've said thus far in regards to catering to illegals isn't true, and how it doesn't happen in today's society.


 
Who are you as a  Paramedic to decide who lives or dies?  Or, who deserves medical care or not?  What illegals are you particularly concerned about since there are most than just the Mexicans.  But of course, there's that Hispanic thing again.  They might actually try to use that on their application for personal gain.  Are you afraid they will take your job?   

Our Presidents and their administrations have allowed and even offered access to this country with open arms to many.  This country has also failed to regulate the laws they have had and now some are on their high horse because of the issues this country is presented with now.  Many of the people complaining have taken no interest in elections at any level be it local or national but believe they know what is wrong with everything.  Some also talk about situations they may have very little first hand knowledge of or lilke you claiming to know about Hispanics because you are 1/4 but consider it something to be used only for personal gain.


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> Yes, there are those that go to Canada or Mexico and paying cash for meds, or dental treatments and such. Their medical coverage is inadequate. Different story if illegals are coming here and getting FREE meds and treatments.


 
It is actually Mexico that gets the largest percentage of Americans purchasing meds.

My response was to this statement made by you:


> If we were to go to various third world countries and ask for a free ride, and fully compensated medical care, we would be laughed at, and turned loose on the street to die.


 
You don't know the actual percentage of Americans who don't have insurance that are treated in another country. Yes, Americans of all types from students to tax evaders travel to different countries and don't alway have insurance.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm concerned that my medical insurance and car insurance premiums are rising, and some illegals are taking, taking, taking, on the taxpayer's dime, and not putting much if anything back into the economy. How am I deciding who lives and dies? I have no problem with stabilizing someone in the ER, but uncompensated long term and specialized care is draining our resources. I think the speaker in the youtube video stated that the illegal problem in Fla is costing the state about 100 million yearly. That's only one state.


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> http://forums.emsresponder.com/showthread.php?t=87534 I found this amusing. Check out post #4:


 

One more comment about this little letter.  It was written by a citizen whose affiliations are not known nor is the intent which could purely have been for humor.    Don't believe everything you read as the matter with getting a DL is still a difficult issue for illegals so that letter has a few false statements.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

You don't know the actual percentage of Americans who don't have insurance that are treated in another country. Yes, Americans of all types from students to tax evaders travel to different countries and don't alway have insurance. 

If this treatment were so easily available, then why are illegals coming here for treatment? Are these countries to which you refer third world, or industrialized? I'm referring to third world countries. Also, I can't believe that the numbers of Americans seeking care in other countries is anywhere the numbers of illegals receiving treatment here.


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## 46Young (Jun 21, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> One more comment about this little letter.  It was written by a citizen whose affiliations are not known nor is the intent which could purely have been for humor.    Don't believe everything you read as the matter with getting a DL is still a difficult issue for illegals so that letter has a few false statements.



I did say it was amusing, and not a legit news article.


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> If this treatment were so easily available, then why are illegals coming here for treatment? Are these countries to which you refer third world, or industrialized? I'm referring to third world countries. Also, I can't believe that the numbers of Americans seeking care in other countries is anywhere the numbers of illegals receiving treatment here.


 
You are only thinking of illegals as one type which is probably the Mexicans and that is very stereotyped.

We boast this country to be the land of opportunity. Others may come here to seek shelter from the violence and wars in their country. Not all citizens of warring countries are granted entrance into the U.S. legally. 

Yes, Americans can get some type of medical care in what you might call a third world country if they become sick or injured. Once stabilized they may be airlifted back to the U.S. or not.

Florida's numbers are high for health care but do you know which administrations led the way for that and why?


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> I did say it was amusing, and not a legit news article.


 
But your posts appear that you hold that to be the gospel truth.

Again, if you want to bash illegals do on another thread. 

The fact that someone speaks another language, one should not immediately assume they are illegal.

If the person is sick and injured, you should provide healthcare regardless of how much you feel you are contributing to condoning illegals coming into this country. 

If someone lists themselves as Hispanic you should not automatically think they are out for personal gain. Like those who list themselves as Black, it just might be difficult for them to hide that fact and say they are White. 

If you can not treat your patients by their injuries or illnesses without judging them for the language they speak, their nationality or color of their skin, then maybe a factory job packaging non-human widgets might be more your type.


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## medic417 (Jun 21, 2009)

46Young said:


> You don't know the actual percentage of Americans who don't have insurance that are treated in another country. Yes, Americans of all types from students to tax evaders travel to different countries and don't alway have insurance.
> 
> If this treatment were so easily available, then why are illegals coming here for treatment? Are these countries to which you refer third world, or industrialized? I'm referring to third world countries. Also, I can't believe that the numbers of Americans seeking care in other countries is anywhere the numbers of illegals receiving treatment here.



Actually because so many USA citizens cross for care it has driven costs for locals beyond reach.  Also illegals actually use very little tax supported resources as they fear capture and deportation so they only get medical care when it becomes a true emergency.  

As to how many USA citizens cross over you obviously don't spend anytime near ground ports of entrys.


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## VentMedic (Jun 21, 2009)

Here's a good page of articles:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090526140844.htm

including:

*Nearly One Million Californians Seek Medical Care In Mexico Annually*
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090526140844.htm

*Lack Of Insurance Drives El Paso, Texas, Residents Across The Mexican Border For Healthcare*
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090220164955.htm

*Being Born In The USA May Not Be Good For Hispanic Health*
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070709171534.htm

*Medical Students Get Training In Spanish*


*Cuba Has Better Medical Care Than the U.S.*

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/cuba-has-better-medical-c_b_19664.html



> Figures from the World Health Organization clearly show that The United States lags behind 36 other countries in overall health system performance ranging from infant mortality, to adult mortality, to life expectancy.
> 
> 20 countries in Europe and four countries in Asia have a better life expectancy than the U.S. If you are a male between the ages of 15 and 59, your chances of dying are higher in the U.S. (140 per thousand) than in Canada, 95, Costa Rica 127, Chile 134, and Cuba, 138.


 
The figures from the above article are nothing new. We have known about the infant mortality rates in the U.S. as compared to other countries for a long time.


In summary, *being bilingual* might be useful if you need to seek medical outside of the U.S. Even some in EMS may not have insurance due to part time status or inability to find a job or just inbetween jobs. Of course, if you do end up ill or injured in another country with only your English, it might be nice if the residents of that country don't have the same narrow minded opinions about foreigners as some on this forum have expressed.


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