# Occupational Suicide in EMS



## DesertRatetteEMT (Feb 12, 2008)

Does anyone know where to get the information for the statistics regarding suicide rates in EMTs? A friend of mine is working on petitioning govt's to pay EMTs more for the work they do, and wants to use suicide rates in this occupation as leverage, if applicable. Thank you. :unsure:


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## Flight-LP (Feb 12, 2008)

I do not know where you would find that information, but I doubt the success of using suicide as any bargaining chip with local governement. I think it will hurt more than it helps........................


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## Ridryder911 (Feb 12, 2008)

You might enquire to the NREMT research department, they might be able to assist you. I too also doubt that it would be beneficial in aiding in wages. I ask why one consider raises would decrease suicide rates? It would be hard to correlate suicide to the pay structure and it being the cause. There are several "poor" people that do not commit suicide, therefore eliminating the point. 

As well, this does bring up an issue that possibly a psychological evaluation maybe should explored for those entering the profession. Possibly in lieu of pay raises, psychological check ups and examinations should be performed. Just like those that perform under stress environment. 

If one is attempting to adjust raises, I suggest to stick to the facts that you provide an essential service. That you are part of the medical community and should have the benefits and wages as accordingly. I would using the "what if" scenario, if something should happen to their families or themselves; whom and how much should those indivuiduals recieve? 

R/r 911


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## DesertRatetteEMT (Feb 12, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> You might enquire to the NREMT research department, they might be able to assist you. I too also doubt that it would be beneficial in aiding in wages. I ask why one consider raises would decrease suicide rates? It would be hard to correlate suicide to the pay structure and it being the cause. There are several "poor" people that do not commit suicide, therefore eliminating the point.
> 
> As well, this does bring up an issue that possibly a psychological evaluation maybe should explored for those entering the profession. Possibly in lieu of pay raises, psychological check ups and examinations should be performed. Just like those that perform under stress environment.
> 
> ...





Good thinking. I'll let him know. I am doing some of my own letter writing about the wage thing, and hope for a response in the community. I would like to see changes. It's not only for my own sake, but for everyone who would benefit. Those ideas are fantastic! I'll have to fuss about those too.


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## Doc Kafka (Feb 12, 2008)

Perhaps wages play a part in some suicides.  
But most of the suicides that I've seen from coworkers dealt more with drug overdosages, and marital or relationship problems.

That is what I have seen.  

That subject would maybe be beneficial in getting more mental health counseling or more debriefings for the providers.


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## bonedog (Feb 13, 2008)

I would think a more useful tact would be to use the negative stats to lower your Unit Hour Utilization. 

I believe that unacceptable UHU's contribute to mental health issues, as people need down time to reflect and debrief.

Shift work and stress also increase substance abuse and divorce rates.


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## Ridryder911 (Feb 13, 2008)

Actually if you investigate EMS workers, you will be surprised upon what you will find. In _JEMS_ magazine there is a section called _Myth Busters_ written by two post graduate EMT's that work for NREMT. They do formal research on people in EMS. 

One of their discussion was upon those involved in EMS had a higher divorce rate than those not in EMS. In studies, EMS did not have a higher divorce rate than the common Joe. I was surprised, but since the national divorce rates are about 50% or higher, it makes sense. 

Sometimes we perceive our profession more unique than it really is. Really it is just a job (paid or not), albeit that job is important it, it is just that. One bandages and starts treatment on a ill or sick person and transports them to the hospital.. ho hum. Anyone can make their job more glamorous than it is. Do we need more money for our job? You bet! The emphasis should be placed upon that they are paying me for what I know and may have to do, not so much of I what do. This is why education is so essential. 

R/r 911


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## VentMedic (Feb 13, 2008)

Actually, it is white male doctors who are financially secure that have the highest rate of suicide in the healthcare profession according to the statistics.

This has been a highly discussed topic with PTSD and for a while it made CISD popular.  Unfortunately CISD may have lead to more problems for some individuals than it solved.  The "we'll take care of our own because we're different" approach instead of having individuals seek professional help for THEIR own specific problems is probably not the best way. 

Robert O'Donnell is probably one of the most famous Paramedics to commit suicide and has been used as an example throughout the years.  His situation also pointed out how complex a person can be and real issues can be masked by the public image or what one perceives their own personal responsibility to be. 

As Rid stated, education is essential.  It is the key to credibility and recognition as a professional.  For EMS, one could argue that the minimal education and training requirements does not adequately prepare individuals for the job creating stress.


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## Doc Kafka (Feb 13, 2008)

Yes definately!  Education is the key to higher wages.  

I would love to make a six-figure income, but I realize and we all must realize that with an AAS in EMT....it isn't going to happen.  

This is an interesting topic for research, albeit unsettling.

I've seen many of my coworkers kill themselves, as I said before, with narcotics.  I'm not sure that all of them were intentional.  

But I've never heard of wages being the issue.


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## paramedix (Mar 18, 2008)

You can visit a South African Statistics site. This site is maintained by the Government and I think its semi-private. 

Very useful for some stats.

Statistics South Africa www.statssa.gov.za

I have used this site for some of my stats during study.


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## Ops Paramedic (Mar 18, 2008)

I cannot provide you with recored statistics but know of three paramedics who committed suicide, and one who tried, in my career.  However as rid mentioned, this isn't the correct angle to use in order to get a raise.

I agree with what has been posted with regards to remuniration and the rate of suicide, meaning that it is not always the lower income groups that have a higher rate.

Try focusing on the comparison btween us and spacialists.  We are by no means cardiologists, but for sure we are speciliasts in pre hospital care, is anyone else??  We have the training and exposure to proove that.  What about using the risk factor involved pre hospital vs. hospital as a motivater for your project/assignment, as we work in a very uncontrolled environment??


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