# CA: affected by obamacare?



## FoleyArtist (Oct 6, 2013)

Any SoCal ambulance co. employees affected by the upcoming obamacare? My company just released a memo with our last payday that they are terminating our health benefits dec 31, 2013 and all the employees have to go obamacare. 

I thought legally a company with more than 50 employee needs to offer insurance or some type of assistance? Or is that changing with obamacare?


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## CodeBru1984 (Oct 6, 2013)

ProbieMedic said:


> Any SoCal ambulance co. employees affected by the upcoming obamacare? My company just released a memo with our last payday that they are terminating our health benefits dec 31, 2013 and all the employees have to go obamacare.
> 
> I thought legally a company with more than 50 employee needs to offer insurance or some type of assistance? Or is that changing with obamacare?



I'm sorry to hear that, and would suggest possibly contacting legal representation who is familiar with the workings of Obamacare?


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 6, 2013)

ProbieMedic said:


> Any SoCal ambulance co. employees affected by the upcoming obamacare? My company just released a memo with our last payday that they are terminating our health benefits dec 31, 2013 and all the employees have to go obamacare.
> 
> I thought legally a company with more than 50 employee needs to offer insurance or some type of assistance? Or is that changing with obamacare?



Maybe they decided that the penalties they would pay would be cheaper than the premiums.  My company thought about doing the same thing for that reason.


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## Uclabruin103 (Oct 6, 2013)

I have three part time jobs. One with more than 30 hours a week and have always had kaiser insurance. Just got my rates for 2014 and they went up 108%. Thank you Obama. So, suck up my pride and get federal assistance, or pay the increase.


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## DesertMedic66 (Oct 6, 2013)

Uclabruin103 said:


> I have three part time jobs. One with more than 30 hours a week and have always had kaiser insurance. Just got my rates for 2014 and they went up 108%. Thank you Obama. So, suck up my pride and get federal assistance, or pay the increase.



Helps the people who don't have insurance, screws everyone else over.


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## SamShel (Oct 6, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Helps the people who don't have insurance, screws everyone else over.




   I am sorry to those directly affected negatively by the current change in healthcare benefits that our country has decided to move forward. Some people will get screwed over and others will get to use healthcare for the first time.  It is my opinion and I believe the right one that it helps society as a whole.  It may take a few years to get the "bugs" worked out, and for the benefits to begin showing, but it will be an eventual positive. This nation will be a better place for it. 

   As a healthcare provider it is my duty (in a sense) to assist, and comfort those in need.  I also believe that what is most important is the well being of the majority of citizens. A healthier country means a better society, which includes better jobs, more money, and eventually cheaper healthcare to mention a few. 

   To the skeptics I can only imagine how difficult this time feels. I can feel the pain of those who are now spending more, some have nearly doubled their costs. Change is a very difficult thing for people, and it will take time for the pain subside. I can only hope that when it does people as whole will see that ACA contributed to the bettering of our nation and society as whole.

   That's all I will say for now. Thanks for reading and allowing me to post.


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## SamShel (Oct 6, 2013)

I apologize for any grammatical and spelling errors. I was attempting to write quickly. Guess I should proofread for now on.



SamShel said:


> I am sorry to those directly affected negatively by the current change in healthcare benefits that our country has decided to move forward. Some people will get screwed over and others will get to use healthcare for the first time.  It is my opinion and I believe the right one that it helps society as a whole.  It may take a few years to get the "bugs" worked out, and for the benefits to begin showing, but it will be an eventual positive. This nation will be a better place for it.
> 
> As a healthcare provider it is my duty (in a sense) to assist, and comfort those in need.  I also believe that what is most important is the well being of the majority of citizens. A healthier country means a better society, which includes better jobs, more money, and eventually cheaper healthcare to mention a few.
> 
> ...


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## bbmtnbb (Oct 7, 2013)

Not really an employment related topic? ??? 

As for affordable-only for the truly poor the others will have to suck up -loose insurance and pay the penalty.  I for one don't have $900 a month for health care IN CASE I NEED IT and my family makes too much for subsidies.  We live in a higher cost of living area -make more money but pay more in bills.  My car is paid for, it is used and 8 years old, I'm in school, my daughter is in school and we pay for college ourselves, I work, my daughter works, my husband works, we don't spend extravagantly, we help our mom's out with their excess living expenses and if my insurance goes up that much I am screwed.  Not a fan and DO NOT think this is going to make our country better, just shift who has health care and who doesn't. Those who had it won't and those who did not will. All at the cost of those who had it and don't now.


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## looker (Oct 7, 2013)

ProbieMedic said:


> Any SoCal ambulance co. employees affected by the upcoming obamacare? My company just released a memo with our last payday that they are terminating our health benefits dec 31, 2013 and all the employees have to go obamacare.
> 
> I thought legally a company with more than 50 employee needs to offer insurance or some type of assistance? Or is that changing with obamacare?



Yes company with more than 50 employees that work over 30 hours a week must provide insurance or pay a fine. However fine only starts for 51 employee. So if you got 70 employees, your company will pay penalty for 20 employees.

Btw business requirement been delayed by 1 year.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

bbmtnbb said:


> Not really an employment related topic? ???


Considering most of us get insurance through our employers, I would say it is an employment related topic.


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## SamShel (Oct 7, 2013)

This is response that I was not going to post, but decided it is an extremely important one for the original poster to read.  The MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is read the ACA for yourself. It is not that scary and many unbiased websites have made it simpler to read.  Do not take your fellow EMT's word on it.  Many are disillusioned about ACA because they have heard so called myths, many are just following party lines and hate it for that reason, many love it for the same reason.  Be a leader and educate yourself on ACA.  The information you get from this website will be mostly opinionated and not factual, having said that this is a good source for peoples own accounts if that's what you are looking for. You are not though, your healthcare is your healthcare. You do not work with a majority of these people and they have no idea how your company is doing business. Good luck 




bbmtnbb said:


> Not really an employment related topic? ???
> 
> As for affordable-only for the truly poor the others will have to suck up -loose insurance and pay the penalty.  I for one don't have $900 a month for health care IN CASE I NEED IT and my family makes too much for subsidies.  We live in a higher cost of living area -make more money but pay more in bills.  My car is paid for, it is used and 8 years old, I'm in school, my daughter is in school and we pay for college ourselves, I work, my daughter works, my husband works, we don't spend extravagantly, we help our mom's out with their excess living expenses and if my insurance goes up that much I am screwed.  Not a fan and DO NOT think this is going to make our country better, just shift who has health care and who doesn't. Those who had it won't and those who did not will. All at the cost of those who had it and don't now.


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## SamShel (Oct 7, 2013)

First off I commend you for being a hardworking American family- Sounds like the American dream.  I know many people in your predicament and I also know many who work just as hard as you and your family and still cannot afford healthcare in our most recent system (is that fair to you). What do you tell them?  Go to college and pay for it yourself and forget about healthcare... Or do you tell them to get healthcare and forget about college???  

  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and allowed to speak it.  Thank you for doing so.  Why do think its not going to work? Have you ever lived somewhere that has used a system like the ACA??  If so please give us the details and point us in the direction of that information so we can read up on it and make our own decision based on facts and data. I do not want to see anymore polls or blogs with personal opinion so leave that stuff out please.  By the way read about the ACA- I think your last sentence is telling and shows you do not know enough about ACA and how it works.



bbmtnbb said:


> Not really an employment related topic? ???
> 
> As for affordable-only for the truly poor the others will have to suck up -loose insurance and pay the penalty.  I for one don't have $900 a month for health care IN CASE I NEED IT and my family makes too much for subsidies.  We live in a higher cost of living area -make more money but pay more in bills.  My car is paid for, it is used and 8 years old, I'm in school, my daughter is in school and we pay for college ourselves, I work, my daughter works, my husband works, we don't spend extravagantly, we help our mom's out with their excess living expenses and if my insurance goes up that much I am screwed.  Not a fan and DO NOT think this is going to make our country better, just shift who has health care and who doesn't. Those who had it won't and those who did not will. All at the cost of those who had it and don't now.


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## Carlos Danger (Oct 7, 2013)

SamShel said:


> The MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is read the ACA for yourself. It is not that scary and many unbiased websites have made it simpler to read.



The fact that the original legislation was over 2000 pages notwithstanding, many of the regulations necessary for the implementation of Obamacare are still being written, so "read the ACA yourself" is simply not an option. 

It appears as though the ACA is going to result in some people having coverage who previously didn't. Good for them. But the negative unintended consequences are numerous, real, and impossible to deny. Many employers -and in turn their employees - are being negatively affected by this massive law.

Don't treat us as though we're partisan skeptics who are simply ignorant to the great blessings that have been bestowed upon us.


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## SamShel (Oct 7, 2013)

My reply did not go through for whatever reason. 

  To summarize- there are many organizations and events out there that are explaining ACA in easier more simpler ways for us that are not as well versed in all that mumbo jumbo. I read it on Wikipedia and it sure cleared up a lot for me.  

  Just so you know- I know of nobody (personally) that has been negatively affected by ACA, "Obamacare". Maybe I need to get out more, but the only complaints I have heard are from those who are making assumptions. Either way I am going to wait a few years before I complain that it is not working yet.

  Anyway thanks for posting!!



Halothane said:


> The fact that the original legislation was over 2000 pages notwithstanding, many of the regulations necessary for the implementation of Obamacare are still being written, so "read the ACA yourself" is simply not an option.
> 
> It appears as though the ACA is going to result in some people having coverage who previously didn't. Good for them. But the negative unintended consequences are numerous, real, and impossible to deny. Many employers -and in turn their employees - are being negatively affected by this massive law.
> 
> Don't treat us as though we're partisan skeptics who are simply ignorant to the great blessings that have been bestowed upon us.


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## looker (Oct 7, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> Considering most of us get insurance through our employers, I would say it is an employment related topic.



At this time discussion is pointless being employee mandate been delayed by 1 year. Any company that either want to continue not offering insurance or just cancel it are free do so being there is no penalty till 2015


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## SamShel (Oct 7, 2013)

thanks for your post!



looker said:


> At this time discussion is pointless being employee mandate been delayed by 1 year. Any company that either want to continue not offering insurance or just cancel it are free do so being there is no penalty till 2015


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## Uclabruin103 (Oct 7, 2013)

It just infuriates me that my age range and gender are the ones being hurt by this new law.  I work hard every day of the week to provide for my family.  We're getting by, by no means rich, and are able to safe for our future goals.  Now all of a sudden I have to take a $1,200 a year hit to my finances because I have to pay for other people?  Why am I responsible for others?  Yes, everyone should have health care.  And there are a lot of people who don't have the means to provide it for themselves.  But the fact I have to sacrifice for families that have 10 kids when they can't afford to support themselves?  Why did you have a family so large, why are you living beyond your means.  

This whole thing goes against the American dream of if you work hard you get ahead in life.  I work hard and I just took a step back in life for no reason because of this.


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## SamShel (Oct 7, 2013)

Why am I responsible for others?

   Because we are all humans and all deserve good health care.  It is not always about us. I understand that people work hard and save for lifetime to provide and leave something for their families and that's admirable, and I applaud them for it. I have been stupid most of my adult life and did not save very well- so now I am forced to be more frugal- however, I know it is my duty to help others.  Whether in the back of an ambulance or back sacrificing a little bit more of my paycheck, sure I sound like martyr and maybe I am stupid. But I cannot live the rest of my life knowing that if I gave a little more, worked a little harder, that someone, somewhere will have the chance for better healthcare...  

    I think Abraham Lincoln said it best  " Its not the years in your life that count, its the life in your years"

  Whatever, take it over leave- I am done digging in the trenches. I wish you all the best outcome and hope that each one of you come out of this better for it. Thanks for being Americans and speaking your views publicly!!!!


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## ghost02 (Oct 7, 2013)

Went down for me. Instead of $2000 a month for my parents and I, its now $700 for better benefits. That's the blue shield platinum ppo.

Plus, getting the insurance myself was cheaper than going through employer, for me.


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## Uclabruin103 (Oct 7, 2013)

SamShel said:


> Why am I responsible for others?
> 
> Because we are all humans and all deserve good health care.  It is not always about us. I understand that people work hard and save for lifetime to provide and leave something for their families and that's admirable, and I applaud them for it. I have been stupid most of my adult life and did not save very well- so now I am forced to be more frugal- however, I know it is my duty to help others.  Whether in the back of an ambulance or back sacrificing a little bit more of my paycheck, sure I sound like martyr and maybe I am stupid. But I cannot live the rest of my life knowing that if I gave a little more, worked a little harder, that someone, somewhere will have the chance for better healthcare...
> 
> ...



I have no problem helping out my fellow humans that actually need the help.  I.E. people on medicare, disabled, foster kids, etc.  BUT why do I have to be responsible for people who make poor life choices like living beyond their means?  

Here's an example, just yesterday I was bad and went to McDonald's during my lunch break.  I see two totally obese people ordering a Big Mac meal and guess what they pulled out to pay for it?  Yes, that's right.  They're EBT (California welfare card) to pay for it.  So not only do I have to pay for their unhealthy eating habits, but now I have to pay for their higher than average health care when they have a massive MI or stroke?  How is that remotely fair?


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

looker said:


> At this time discussion is pointless being employee mandate been delayed by 1 year. Any company that either want to continue not offering insurance or just cancel it are free do so being there is no penalty till 2015



I wasn't aware that Congress had delayed that aspect of it.  I know the President tried to do it, but legally he doesn't have the authority to materially modify a law that has been passed and gone into effect.


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## JPINFV (Oct 7, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> Considering most of us get insurance through our employers, I would say it is an employment related topic.


...and this is one of the problems. There's no inherent reason why health insurance should be through an employer. 


The other big issue is that health insurance covers everything. Imagine how expensive car insurance would be if it covered new tires and oil changes?


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## JPINFV (Oct 7, 2013)

Uclabruin103 said:


> Why am I responsible for others?



Do you support EMTALA? After all, if you support mandating emergency room staff from taking care of people without regard to their ability to pay (and lets be honest, by the time badness has been ruled out it's easy enough to throw out a prescription), then you should be responsible, in part, for ensuring that the ED staff is compensated for their work and supplies.


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## Clipper1 (Oct 7, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> I wasn't aware that Congress had delayed that aspect of it.  I know the President tried to do it, but legally he doesn't have the authority to materially modify a law that has been passed and gone into effect.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...ions-for-the-private-health-insurance-market/


The vote to delay Obamacare was 231-192, with two Republicans voting against the bill, while two Democrats supported it.  The Republicans opposed to the bill were New York Reps. Chris Gibson and Richard Hanna, and the Democrats who supported the measure were North Carolina Rep. Mike McInytre and Utah Rep. Jim Matheson.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-government-shutdown-97496.html#ixzz2h5NsPUIP


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## JPINFV (Oct 7, 2013)

Uclabruin103 said:


> BUT why do I have to be responsible for people who make poor life choices like living beyond their means?




Ok... what criteria should we use? Tooth to tattoo ratio? All drug overdoses just get kicked to the curb? What does "poor life choices" means? Furthermore, what about people who were just raised poorly and don't know better?


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## Uclabruin103 (Oct 7, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> EMTALA



If you want to talk about EMTALA, then we're just talking about actual medical emergencies.  So let's see, in the month of September in the city I work, I would of had one legit patient who could be considered to be in a medical emergency that warranted a visit to the ER.  

Being raised poorly is not an excuse for behavior.  I had a hard life growing up and you don't see me living off the government or welfare's dime.  We as a nation need to stop making excuses for why able bodied people need help and assistance.  We're breeding a county of soft people who aren't willing to work hard.


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## JPINFV (Oct 7, 2013)

Uclabruin103 said:


> If you want to talk about EMTALA, then we're just talking about actual medical emergencies.



Give me a chief complaint, I can generally come up with an emergent condition? Back pain? Cauda Equina Syndrome. 

Testicular pain? Testicular torsion?

Leg pain? Rhabdo. 

Chest pain/SOB/any signs of infection are just too easy to list out emergent problems.

Until I do an exam, I can't rule out an emergency. That exam is mandated by EMTALA. This isn't to say that the vast majority of patients aren't emergent, but I don't get to make that decision based off of just eyeballing them at the door.


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## EMT2B (Oct 7, 2013)

Uclabruin103 said:


> Here's an example, just yesterday I was bad and went to McDonald's during my lunch break.  I see two totally obese people ordering a Big Mac meal and guess what they pulled out to pay for it?  Yes, that's right.  They're EBT (California welfare card) to pay for it.  So not only do I have to pay for their unhealthy eating habits, but now I have to pay for their higher than average health care when they have a massive MI or stroke?  How is that remotely fair?


They must have been using the "cash aid" portion of EBT, because the SNAP benefits don't cover pre-made food (as I found out the hard way when I tried to use mine to get a deli sub at Safeway last year)


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

Clipper1 said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...ions-for-the-private-health-insurance-market/
> 
> 
> The vote to delay Obamacare was 231-192, with two Republicans voting against the bill, while two Democrats supported it.  The Republicans opposed to the bill were New York Reps. Chris Gibson and Richard Hanna, and the Democrats who supported the measure were North Carolina Rep. Mike McInytre and Utah Rep. Jim Matheson.
> ...



But it still doesn't change the law until the Senate approves it and the President signs it.  Last time I checked, the Senate wasn't even going to consider this, and the President has threatened to veto it.

Legally, the employer mandate is still the law of the land.

From the Forbes article you linked to:


> Does Obama have the legal authority to delay the mandate?
> 
> The Affordable Care Act is quite clear as to the effective date of the employer mandate. “The amendments made by this section shall apply to months beginning after December 31, 2013,” concludes Section 1513.
> 
> ...


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## looker (Oct 7, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> I wasn't aware that Congress had delayed that aspect of it.  I know the President tried to do it, but legally he doesn't have the authority to materially modify a law that has been passed and gone into effect.



President delayed implementation of it. Yes he can legally do it and he did it. Company's are not required to provide health care to worker that work over 30 hours until 2015.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

looker said:


> President delayed implementation of it. Yes he can legally do it and he did it. Company's are not required to provide health care to worker that work over 30 hours until 2015.



Did you not read the part I quoted in my previous post?  Yes, I know he claims to have the ability to do it, but that is not how our government and Constitution works (at least when they're open).  The President does not have the authority to arbitrarily change a law that has been passed.

The President, as the chief executive of the government, can choose not to enforce a law.  However, it is still the law of the land, and he can be forced to enforce it via court order.


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## looker (Oct 7, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> Did you not read the part I quoted in my previous post?  Yes, I know he claims to have the ability to do it, but that is not how our government and Constitution works (at least when they're open).  The President does not have the authority to arbitrarily change a law that has been passed.
> 
> The President, as the chief executive of the government, can choose not to enforce a law.  However, it is still the law of the land, and he can be forced to enforce it via court order.



Please point me to how many times during the history that court order executive branch to enforce the law?


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

looker said:


> Please point me to how many times during the history that court order executive branch to enforce the law?


I said it could happen...not that it would.  And that still doesn't change the fact that the employer mandate is still the law of the land.


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## looker (Oct 7, 2013)

ffemt8978 said:


> I said it could happen...not that it would.  And that still doesn't change the fact that the employer mandate is still the law of the land.



IRS will not enforce the penalty, you can make any law, the law of the land but if it's announced that it will not be enforced and no penalty will be as result of company ignoring it, it might as well not exist.


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

looker said:


> IRS will not enforce the penalty, you can make any law, the law of the land but if it's announced that it will not be enforced and no penalty will be as result of company ignoring it, it might as well not exist.



Right up until the point he changes his mind and decides to enforce it.


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## Aidey (Oct 7, 2013)

Guys....can we please keep this to the discussion of how the ACA is currently affecting employers and NOT a general debate of the ACA and its implementation?


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 7, 2013)

Aidey said:


> Guys....can we please keep this to the discussion of how the ACA is currently affecting employers and NOT a general debate of the ACA and its implementation?



I suppose.


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## looker (Oct 7, 2013)

Aidey said:


> Guys....can we please keep this to the discussion of how the ACA is currently affecting employers and NOT a general debate of the ACA and its implementation?



The thing is , it's not having any impact on employers directly as law will not be enforced for a year. Those company that wanted to get rid of their health care are doing it and those that want to are keeping. That is the advice insurance agents are currently giving to their clients.


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## bbmtnbb (Oct 9, 2013)

"This is response that I was not going to post, but decided it is an extremely important one for the original poster to read. The MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do is read the ACA for yourself. It is not that scary and many unbiased websites have made it simpler to read. Do not take your fellow EMT's word on it. Many are disillusioned about ACA because they have heard so called myths, many are just following party lines and hate it for that reason, many love it for the same reason. Be a leader and educate yourself on ACA. The information you get from this website will be mostly opinionated and not factual, having said that this is a good source for peoples own accounts if that's what you are looking for. You are not though, your healthcare is your healthcare. You do not work with a majority of these people and they have no idea how your company is doing business. Good luck"

My husband's insurance is getting raised due to increased costs.  So next open enrollment the cost is going to $900.  This is with a $1500 individual deductible for a family and $3000 per family.  We are a family--so we pay $3000 before the insurance company pays anything.  The notice indicated the increased costs are due to covering pre-existing conditions, expanded coverage and preventative care.  Maybe I am wrong in assigning blame to Obamacare but it sounds like the newly implemented coverage.  I previously paid $410 per month.  Doable, but $900 is not for me.  Not with out anything I can do. I am not being disillusioned or following party lines (I am Neither of the major parties)   I agree with the above poster that you should read it yourself.  But MY reality is that the changes have raised my cost of living.  (or will in 1 and a half months) So I am just saying what myself and a few others I know have experienced.  Those who's companies pay most of their insurance and did not pass of the costs will still have the same costs and those who are in the lower income levels and will get either a subsidy (they still have to pay a share of cost) or if they get it cost free, then good fro them but as for me and mine, we are pushed to a wall.  So please do not (above poster) cast me as a disillusioned EMT or siding on party lines.  I actually feel the act did not go the right direction and should have gone further but not allowing private companies (insurance companies) to benefit and we (the citizens to loose out --some of us that is).  I believe in health care for all!!! I just need it to actually be AFFORDABLE.


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## bbmtnbb (Oct 9, 2013)

Also,, I do not think anyone (except the employers) cares about how it affects the employers.  We care how the employers affect US.  So, if an employer feels he needs to spread the increased costs to the employee then we as employees will care.  If an employer decides the increase in cost is more than they want to handle and they cut the coverage, then we as employees care.  My husband's employer decided to pass the increase on to the employees rather than covering the increased costs.  That affects my bottom line.


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