# X to Israel to America



## bstone (Sep 26, 2010)

I know this has come up before, so maybe it's worth discussing.

Joe is from New Zealand. He's been a medic for 10 years and wants to move to the US so he can really practice EMS like he's always wanted (running dialysis calls). But he doesn't know how to get in with the NREMT or state licenses. He's getting frustrated and has called 50 state EMS boards to no avail. They don't accept New Zealand and won't let him do the renal roundup.

Enter Israel. MDA- Magen David Adom- the Red Star of David. He goes to Israel, volunteers with MDA and challenged their medic test. He now has a shiny MDA medic card. Official, stamped with a little bit of chumus on it.

Not all, but some US states (like IL) will accept it. When I was working BLS in IL a bunch of my co-workers had done a 60 (sixty!!) hour BLS course in Israel and the IDPH gave them EMT-B cards. (And to think I went to Basic school for 140 hours.)

Eh? Thoughts? Chag Sukkot sameach.


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## MrBrown (Sep 26, 2010)

Sounds like Joe has the now extinct National Diploma in Ambulance (Paramedic) which is a two year course introduced in 1995 or its precursor, Advanced Ambulance Aid which was a one year course but you had to have at least 4 years on-road to qualify to take the entry exam.

I recently had the pleasure of listening to the Medical Director for MDA speak in Auckland (his name escapes me) but the BLS course in Israel is designed to be little more than a driver/assistant because they use cross-educated double degree RNs/civillian Intensive Care Paramedics or a Doctor on the MICU.

Lets face it, an EMT learns what? How to take a blood pressure, do the most basic of assessment and treatment and strap somebody to a long board? Shouldn't take a 140 hours to learn that.  

We used to have a simmilar course here that took forty hours and was called, not suprisingly, elementary ambulance aid .... because you learn such a tiny piece of the puzzle.


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## Veneficus (Sep 26, 2010)

It may be easier just to take the EMT-B course again if that is what he aspires. 

To move into medic seems like a very uphill battle from any experience I have ever had.


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## Scott33 (Sep 26, 2010)

Which visa category does Joe plan on entering the US with? 

Can he prove to the USCIS that the job of paramedic is in high demand and short supply in the US?


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## Veneficus (Sep 26, 2010)

Scott33 said:


> Which visa category does Joe plan on entering the US with?
> 
> Can he prove to the USCIS that the job of paramedic is in high demand and short supply in the US?



I wouldn't worry about it. Before you leave or once you arrive, there are a few ways to work the system that I know of so I am sure an experienced immigration lawyer will be able to more than make it right. (If you even need to go that far because many expat communities have people and centers that don't changre to get you through the process once you arrive on US soil.)

All of my family have dual citizenship, played the game, it is not that hard.


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## MrBrown (Sep 26, 2010)

Hah! It's impossible to get a US work visa as a Paramedic, I know people who have tried and been declined.

From memory Paramedic is technically semi skilled third preference for a work visa.


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## Scott33 (Sep 26, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. Before you leave or once you arrive, there are a few ways to work the system that I know of



You make it sound a lot easier that it actually is. A good lawyer _may_ be able to find a legal loophole which _may_ benefit an application. What he or she cannot do, is alter immigration law. 

I am not talking about crossing the border illegally here (no mean feat when coming from NZ), or the European over on a student visa, forgetting the way home when they are out of status, and making a living from "off the books" bar work (a huge proportion of illegal immigrants in the US fit into this category). I mean actually obtaining authorization from the USCIS for permanent residency and / or a work permit in the US. 

Fact is, there is no legitimate means to immigrate to the US solely on the back of being a qualified paramedic. Work visas are job-specific and even the EB-3 (nurse visa) dried up about 3 years ago. 

http://immigration.lawyers.com/blog...on-and-Visa-OPtion-for-Registered-Nurses.html

Unlike the UK, Australia, Canada, and NZ - The US does not have a point-based system for allocation of work visas. 

There is a saying on one of the immigration forums I frequent..._You do not choose to immigrate to the US, the US choose you._



> Hah! It's impossible to get a US work visa as a Paramedic, I know people who have tried and been declined.



Precisely. :deadhorse:

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Pulaski's_Ways:_How_to_Live_and_Work_in_the_USA


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## MrBrown (Sep 26, 2010)

Scott33 said:


> I am not talking about crossing the border illegally here (no mean feat when coming from NZ), or the European over on a student visa, forgetting the way home when they are out of status, and making a living from "off the books" bar work (a huge proportion of illegal immigrants in the US fit into this category). I mean actually obtaining authorization from the USCIS for permanent residency and / or a work permit in the US.



Oh come on mate, all Brown had to do was work at the meat packing plant for two weeks and go to 3 month Houston Fire Depatment approved patch factory for barely homeostasasing Parethintheyare's and Medicfighters (you know, those Fire guys who fight being a Paramedic every day)


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## Veneficus (Sep 26, 2010)

Scott33 said:


> You make it sound a lot easier that it actually is. A good lawyer _may_ be able to find a legal loophole which _may_ benefit an application. What he or she cannot do, is alter immigration law.



It has been my experience they understand the different types of Visas and can offer multiple avenues. Of course they make no promises, but "I have never seen it fail" can sometimes be reassuring. (Of course they don't stipulate N may =1)



Scott33 said:


> I am not talking about crossing the border illegally here (no mean feat when coming from NZ), or the European over on a student visa, forgetting the way home when they are out of status, and making a living from "off the books" bar work (a huge proportion of illegal immigrants in the US fit into this category). I mean actually obtaining authorization from the USCIS for permanent residency and / or a work permit in the US.



Nor I but there do seem to be multiple entries and the possibility to convert. (not sure all the ways, but more than 1 legal way)



Scott33 said:


> Fact is, there is no legitimate means to immigrate to the US solely on the back of being a qualified paramedic. Work visas are job-specific and even the EB-3 (nurse visa) dried up about 3 years ago.



Do you think that as an advanced degree educator might work better, rather than a paramedic?

http://immigration.lawyers.com/blog...on-and-Visa-OPtion-for-Registered-Nurses.html



Scott33 said:


> Unlike the UK, Australia, Canada, and NZ - The US does not have a point-based system for allocation of work visas.



I don't think it should. 



Scott33 said:


> There is a saying on one of the immigration forums I frequent..._You do not choose to immigrate to the US, the US choose you._.



A terrible fall from grace by a nation created by immigrants. But then again, I am sure there are many natural born unemployed people today who will take a job scrubbing toilets or picking crops in the field for a few bucks. They may even drop their union mentality and take some personal responsibility for demonstrating their value. (pay no attention to the sarcasm) Maybe even the possibility of actually getting educated people in the form of foreign medics to improve the system. 

There are substandard providers everywhere as well as good ones, but really, 750 hours to ALS in some states? EMT-B alphabet soup? Its embaressing.

(not blaming you, just a  lot of frustration, the system will never change from the inside, too much ethnocentrism and pettyness)


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## MrBrown (Sep 26, 2010)

744 hours in Texas, heck, that gives you an extra six hours to go to the pub!


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## Scott33 (Sep 26, 2010)

At the risk of offending my own flesh and blood.

The old (UK) IHCD paramedic course as a stand alone entity was 12 weeks, or <500 hours.

Its not the length, it's the content

(That's what she said)


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## MrBrown (Sep 26, 2010)

Ah yes but we both know that one had to be a Technician for a significant amount of time beforehand and master the fundamental tennants of praxis before being allowed to move on.

Our Paramedic (Advanced Care) course used to be one year although you had to have at least four years experience; two as an Ambulance Officer and two as an Intermediate Care Officer (IV/Cardiac).


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## Scott33 (Sep 26, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> Ah yes but we both know that one had to be a Technician for a significant amount of time beforehand and master the fundamental tennants of praxis before being allowed to move on..



Correct.


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