# Univ North Carolina Medic to PA program!



## mycrofft (Jan 18, 2013)

http://www.northcarolinahealthnews....ll-turn-army-medics-into-local-practitioners/

NPR's Morning Edition had an article just now about this. Two year program aimed at bridging Special Forces medics who have returned to civilian life to Physician Assistants. Slated to begin classes in 2015, goal is to train  community providers for rural and underserved North Carolina locales. It will confer a master's degree.

Here's another article from the school itself.:

http://www.med.unc.edu/ahs/unc-pa/about-pa-program


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jan 18, 2013)

great news


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## EpiEMS (Jan 18, 2013)

Curious how they'll work out this program. Do most of the 18Ds have undergrad degrees? Great concept, I very much like it!
The article sorta underlies the problem with EMS though, some of the quotes are quite revealing...

Morning Edition +1 so good


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jan 18, 2013)

EpiEMS said:


> Curious how they'll work out this program. Do most of the 18Ds have undergrad degrees? Great concept, I very much like it!
> The article sorta underlies the problem with EMS though, some of the quotes are quite revealing...
> 
> Morning Edition +1 so good



I was wondering the same thing about the undergrad, however I think with AARTS and ACE credits plus the medic cert and whatever else they might be bridged in that way as undergrads. I have no idea, just a guess


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## mycrofft (Jan 19, 2013)

I wish a university counselor was on here. Or a NC recruiter.


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## Christopher (Jan 21, 2013)

EpiEMS said:


> Curious how they'll work out this program. Do most of the 18Ds have undergrad degrees? Great concept, I very much like it!
> The article sorta underlies the problem with EMS though, some of the quotes are quite revealing...
> 
> Morning Edition +1 so good



My best friend is an 18D and has a degree from prior to enlisting; ballparking from the guys I've met who went thru class with him is >50% had BA/BS degrees.


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## JPINFV (Jan 21, 2013)

“If you look at the task list that they get in their year of clinical training, it overlaps about 85 percent with an emergency medical residency,” said Benson, 

::cough: Sucking Bull Fhit ::cough::


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## Christopher (Jan 21, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> “If you look at the task list that they get in their year of clinical training, it overlaps about 85 percent with an emergency medical residency,” said Benson,
> 
> ::cough: Sucking Bull Fhit ::cough::



That was my read...they really do not get much chronic care experience or acute care of civilian medical emergencies. Their education doesn't transfer well to a civilian paramedic without some bridge course to pick up those conditions to be honest.


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## Brandon O (Jan 21, 2013)

Apart from the needlessly arrogant quotes, this is very much in line with the PA tradition. The original PA concept took returning military corpsmen and retrained them to practice medicine semi-autonomously, filling the provider shortage in underserved areas.

With that said, from this info it's not quite clear what's being done here. Most PA programs are two years and (generally) confer a master's degree. It may be that this is simply a specialized program that preferentially or exclusively recruits military providers, and orients the curriculum toward their background. Or it may be that this is a master's program which allows students without a bachelor's degree, or without some of the usual prerequisites, by offering some type of recognition for non-traditional academic background. But they're not getting any shortcuts on the curriculum.


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## Veneficus (Jan 21, 2013)

I would point out that most PAs do not work in these "rural and underserved environments."

What would encourage graduates from this program to behave any differently?


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## Brandon O (Jan 21, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> I would point out that most PAs do not work in these "rural and underserved environments."
> 
> What would encourage graduates from this program to behave any differently?



Yes, I don't see any reason to think they'd have unusually high rates, unless military personnel are more prone to staying local and working in these environments. But it's _de rigueur_ to mention this mission whenever PA programs come up.

I believe UW MEDEX does preferentially recruit veterans (among other things) with the idea that they're more likely to follow this route.


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## JPINFV (Jan 21, 2013)

It's like medical schools, especially DO schools, espousing the primary care mission... and their applicants doing likewise until it comes time to schedule audition rotations.


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## EpiEMS (Jan 21, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> I would point out that most PAs do not work in these "rural and underserved environments."
> 
> What would encourage graduates from this program to behave any differently?



They could structure the financing of the program such that tuition etc. is conditional on practicing in a medically underserved environment?


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## ExpatMedic0 (Jan 21, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> I would point out that most PAs do not work in these "rural and underserved environments."
> 
> What would encourage graduates from this program to behave any differently?



18D, hooah! Duh Vene!


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## Brandon O (Jan 21, 2013)

EpiEMS said:


> They could structure the financing of the program such that tuition etc. is conditional on practicing in a medically underserved environment?



Yes, there are grants and scholarships that work this way, and I believe others available to veterans. Never seen a program that mandated it for all applicants.


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## Veneficus (Jan 21, 2013)

Brandon Oto said:


> Yes, there are grants and scholarships that work this way, and I believe others available to veterans. Never seen a program that mandated it for all applicants.



The same for doctors, but it doesn't take a financial expert to figure out it is not worth it.


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## Wheel (Jan 21, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> I would point out that most PAs do not work in these "rural and underserved environments."
> 
> What would encourage graduates from this program to behave any differently?



One reason I can think of is that they're used to increased autonomy and operating in austere environments. They might be a little reluctant to give that up for more oversight and doing fast track in the city.


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## EpiEMS (Jan 21, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> The same for doctors, but it doesn't take a financial expert to figure out it is not worth it.



Valid point. If, however, they see a rural lifestyle as desirable, then it might be ok. I just don't quite see that as likely for a huge number of them.


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## mycrofft (Jan 21, 2013)

N. Carolina is specifically stating this is targeting underserved areas, but as I saw in Nebraska, "how you going to keep 'em down in the farm"?


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## Brandon O (Jan 22, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> N. Carolina is specifically stating this is targeting underserved areas, but as I saw in Nebraska, "how you going to keep 'em down in the farm"?



Again, every PA program I've encountered says this. How serious they are about it varies widely.


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## 911bru (Jan 30, 2013)

Bout time !!!


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## BSE (Feb 13, 2013)

I got some pretty good skinny on this when I last re-certified at the JSOMT.

One, it is only 18D, but there is talk opening it up for the SO-IDC's who went through the long course.

Two, this is not a "get out and start school" type of deal.  The degree requirements are the same as most PA schools.  The pre-recs still need to be completed with the exception of Anatomy/Physiology.

Standard PA pre-recs, some schools will have slight differences:

2 sem of A&P
2 sem BIO I&II
2 sem Gen Chem I&II
1 to 2 sem Organic Chem or Biochem
1 sem Microbiology
Usually there is a requirement for 2 or more upper level Bio courses (cell biology, genetics.....and such)

The UNC pre-recs haven't been hashed out yet, but it will be similar to the above.

What the guys are getting is a guaranteed admission into the program if they complete the degree requirements and pre-recs above a certain GPA which hasn't been established yet.  I would guess they would put it at about 3.2.  This is the kicker, PA schools are super competitive to get into, they get a spot by virtue of their previous training and service....which is good for them.  I am inclined to say they deserve it.


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## mycrofft (Feb 13, 2013)

So it is not as the news reports and news releases say, but it is still a good deal.

There is a potential business opportunity counseling and acting as agent for veterans who need assistance getting onto school, getting benefits, etc.


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## BSE (Feb 13, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> So it is not as the news reports and news releases say, but it is still a good deal.
> 
> There is a potential business opportunity counseling and acting as agent for veterans who need assistance getting onto school, getting benefits, etc.



Could be.  There are a few schools that actively seek military medics, UW being one of the main.  Much of it has to do with folks not being able to get the pre-recs done while serving.  

About UNC...I could be wrong and things might have changed.  I was in Bragg last year and this is what they were proposing.  I am friends with one of the guys who helped to set this up; this is where I am getting most of my info, but it is dated.  

18D's, SO-IDC's, and SO-IDMT's would have the easiest transition.  I would love to see it open to all three.


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## alabamatriathlete (Feb 16, 2013)

DOD Paramedic on one of the CA teams down here at Bragg myself. Taking all my pre-reqs for PA school and so forth now at nights - alot of the dudes in the class are 18D's and similar. Dudes are great at trauma - not the best with clinical aspect of things, but that's not to say for all 18D dudes. Got alot of good buddies in Group and they're fantastic and will be great PA's one day. Guess we're all going down the same path lol


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