# Random CPR question: Shirt on/off?



## MMiz (Jan 14, 2005)

Random CPR question: If you're doing CPR outside of the EMS role, do you remove / cut the person's shirt?


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## tricam (Jan 14, 2005)

Yes.  I would.  I'd like to know that I have a proper hand placement. Plus it's easier to see chest rise during rescure breathing.


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## Chimpie (Jan 14, 2005)

Yes.

But wait, are you just randomly doing CPR on people?  Are they okay with this?   B)


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## MedicPrincess (Jan 14, 2005)

Good Question Chimpie....Maybe we should all try it once....

Picture it...walk up to some random guy (or girl...whatever your preferecne)....

"Sir, do you mind if I practice my CPR on you?  You know mouth to mouth and all that?"

Hmmm....Maybe that should be my new pick up line.......


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## MedicPrincess (Jan 14, 2005)

oh and for the record....shirt off.

Cant see my landmark if his/her shirt is still on.


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## Jon (Jan 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by EMTPrincess_@Jan 14 2005, 06:59 PM
> * oh and for the record....shirt off.
> 
> Cant see my landmark if his/her shirt is still on. *


 Amen....Especially if it is a nice-looking female. :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

and random trivial of the day - the trauma shears were invented to cut underwire bras, as bandage shears would not cut the metal.


Jon


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 15, 2005)

Shirt off.

Landmark needed

Espicially Big People


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## emtbuff (Jan 15, 2005)

Shirt off

Being able to see landmarks and chest rise and fall is a much needed visual.


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## SafetyPro2 (Jan 15, 2005)

Shirt off is what I always teach in my CPR classes. I remind the class that a patient who's clinically dead isn't going to be worried about their modesty, and that its the best way to ensure proper hand placement. Also, when EMS arrives, its one of the first thing they're going to do, so might as well save that extra couple seconds.


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## Firechic (Jan 15, 2005)

Shirt is off - difficult to work around it. And no, dead people have lost their modesty.



> *Amen....Especially if it is a nice-looking female.
> 
> and random trivial of the day - the trauma shears were invented to cut underwire bras, as bandage shears would not cut the metal.*



Like I said - she is dead.....a nice looking dead female.
I find this statement very disturbing.


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## ffemt8978 (Jan 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Firechic_@Jan 15 2005, 08:20 PM
> * Shirt is off - difficult to work around it. And no, dead people have lost their modesty.
> 
> 
> ...


 Me, too.

I agree with the shirt off, but don't see a need to remove a bra unless using an AED or defibrillator.


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## Luno (Jan 16, 2005)

> *Like I said - she is dead.....a nice looking dead female.
> I find this statement very disturbing. *


Yes, dead, but for most males, preferably a pulse.  :blink:  She should have a pulse, atleast if you're doing it right. (CPR, get your minds out of the gutter)


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## coloradoemt (Jan 16, 2005)

Need to get them naked, or at least partly naked... everyone should be naked... all the time... to save us time... yes thats it to save us time... :lol:  ooops I think I said that out loud...


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## Summit (Jan 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MedicStudentJon_@Jan 14 2005, 09:25 PM
> * Amen....Especially if it is a nice-looking female. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
> 
> Jon *


 Dead chicks... so sexy?    

Get her while she's warm!  :blink:


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## croaker260 (Jan 16, 2005)

I forget, was this the patients shirt, your partners shirt, or your own shirt you cut off?

Im so confused.

Steve


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## Jon (Jan 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Summit+Jan 16 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>*QUOTE* (Summit @ Jan 16 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MedicStudentJon_@Jan 14 2005, 09:25 PM
> * Amen....Especially if it is a nice-looking female. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Jon *


Dead chicks... so sexy?    

Get her while she's warm!  :blink: [/b][/quote]
 what can I say - it was a loooong day

and I'm ALWAYS disturbing something - the peace, my partner , or just plain being disturbed.

Jon


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by croaker260_@Jan 16 2005, 07:14 PM
> * I forget, was this the patients shirt, your partners shirt, or your own shirt you cut off?
> 
> Im so confused.
> ...


 I hope not your partner's shirt. I only work with males. :angry: 

Maybe my dispatchers... :unsure:


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## SafetyPro2 (Jan 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ffemt8978_@Jan 15 2005, 09:44 PM
> * I agree with the shirt off, but don't see a need to remove a bra unless using an AED or defibrillator. *


 Actually, I disagree, for a couple of reasons. First off, (how to say this modestly) a bra's purpose is to support the breasts in a more upright fashion, which can interfere with hand placement. Second, the potential for an underwire (which may not be readily noticable) not only poses an injury risk to the patient, it also poses an injury risk to the person performing CPR (yes, I have seen underwires come loose, and they can be sharp). Third, when the AED/defib arrives, you have to take the time then to remove the bra anyway, so why not remove it from the start.


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## MCSHughes (Jan 18, 2005)

Shirt doesn't matter, on, off, whatever, landmarks are felt, not seen.


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 18, 2005)

as was said b4... The shirt is coming off anyway. why not take it in the first place? Also a button down shirt would interfere with feeling landmarks. So would you leave that on?


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## Jon (Jan 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PArescueEMT_@Jan 18 2005, 08:45 PM
> * as was said b4... The shirt is coming off anyway. why not take it in the first place? Also a button down shirt would interfere with feeling landmarks. So would you leave that on? *


 How about a zipper??

Thick screen printing?

As the king said: EtCetera, EtCetera, EtCetera  :huh:  :huh:  :huh: 


Jon


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## Wingnut (Jan 18, 2005)

A bee may jump from flower to flower to flower, but a flower does not jump from bee to bee to bee!


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## Jon (Jan 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wingnut_@Jan 18 2005, 09:55 PM
> * A bee may jump from flower to flower to flower, but a flower does not jump from bee to bee to bee! *


 thank you for todays random trivia.


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## Wingnut (Jan 19, 2005)

Your welcome...

and I know all the words to "shall we dance"

I know, I know....it's bad


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## ksEMTbabe (Jan 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SafetyPro_@Jan 18 2005, 01:56 AM
> *
> Actually, I disagree, for a couple of reasons. First off, (how to say this modestly) a bra's purpose is to support the breasts in a more upright fashion, which can interfere with hand placement. Second, the potential for an underwire (which may not be readily noticable) not only poses an injury risk to the patient, it also poses an injury risk to the person performing CPR (yes, I have seen underwires come loose, and they can be sharp). *


 I agree... now how about a hats off to those of us brave enough to wear the death traps every day    LOL


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## Phridae (Jan 19, 2005)

Alright. Lets see. Shirt off. It gets in the way. When als does arrive, they're going to rip it off to waffle the person anyways.  As for the bra, that can come off too. I really hope you're not oogling the lady. I highly doubt their sexy. How many 25 y/o have you seen go into cardiac arrest?  And if its an arrest due to trauma, I hope you're doing other things than just staring at some dying womans chest.   I don't know anyone whos gotten into EMS hoping to see someones naked chest when they arrest. <_< 

And one thing I was taught around her, Make 'em Naked.


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## EMTPWaffle (Feb 4, 2005)

There are some issues here..... Dead Chicks.. Sexy.. Oh my !!!  HA!!!

Shirt off... Use as many senses as you can in EMS.. Sight and Touch for landmark location!!!


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## medic03 (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by EMTPWaffle_@Feb 4 2005, 10:19 AM
> * ... Use as many senses as you can in EMS.. .... *


 What about smell?  or taste?    :huh:


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## medic03 (Feb 4, 2005)

I brought in a 21 year old female into the ER cardiac arrest s/p OD and gave report to the docs. while they were working her up all the first year residents were staring at her chest. (ok, if she wasn't dead and had vomit on the side of her face, I would have said she was hot if I passed her on the street)  Actually had to  close the curtain during the code because so many people were watching this naked girl get cpr done to her.   perverts


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## SafetyPro2 (Feb 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MedicStudentJon_@Jan 18 2005, 07:22 PM
> * As the king said: EtCetera, EtCetera, EtCetera  :huh:  :huh:  :huh: *


 Lord, does that bring back memories. Freshman year of HS, yours truly played "Royal Guard #3" in the spring production of "The King and I". I was the one who was supposed to beat the wayward concubine, and then get accosted by Anna. Opening night, Anna (the older sister of one of my football teammates) got a little too aggressive and instead of grabbing and shaking my arm, shoved me full strength back into the "marble" column (canvas/wood frame hanging from the rigging) and sent it swinging. Nobody on stage could keep a straight face. Then, when I was sent by the King to kneel and hold the concubine so he could beat her, my the zipper up the back of my costume decided to rip open.

That coupled with the Crown Prince banging a gong in one scene and knocking it OFF the stage made for a very memorable production.


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## Wingnut (Feb 5, 2005)

ROFLMAO...that must have been a treat to see...Yule Brenner would have rolled over in his grave!


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## Firechic (Feb 5, 2005)

> *I brought in a 21 year old female into the ER cardiac arrest s/p OD and gave report to the docs. while they were working her up all the first year residents were staring at her chest. (ok, if she wasn't dead and had vomit on the side of her face, I would have said she was hot if I passed her on the street) Actually had to close the curtain during the code because so many people were watching this naked girl get cpr done to her. perverts *



How sad. Those residents are too immature to be caring for people. I don't understand why the issue of nudity is such a big deal. A patient is a patient - enough said. Perhaps I'm getting too old to understand this fascination about a naked patient!
 :mellow:


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## TTLWHKR (Feb 5, 2005)

I normally leave my shirt on during CPR... Unless your talking about... um.. Nevermind.

Although some kind of harness would be neat so I wouldn't fall over!


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## PArescueEMT (Feb 5, 2005)

I guess it depends on where i am at and how hot it is... if I am at the beach on a 110 degree day, then my shirt would probably come off, on the street when it's 40 below, I am adding the Pt.s shirt to my back for warmth. :lol:   

hehe any one disagree?


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## Jon (Feb 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Blueeighty8_@Feb 5 2005, 09:14 PM
> * Although some kind of harness would be neat so I wouldn't fall over!    *


  a little too much information.......


I am scarred for life


Jon


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## TTLWHKR (Feb 6, 2005)

Although some kind of harness would be neat so I wouldn't fall over!

 a little too much information.......



 


Have you ever done CPR in a _moving_ ambulance?

Standing up, doing CPR, while going down a bumpy, rural road way... Is dangerous! It would be nice to have some type of harness to hook to the ceiling bars to keep from falling over!


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## PArescueEMT (Feb 6, 2005)

just get a rope rigging, and a fall arrestor. done.


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## Jon (Feb 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PArescueEMT_@Feb 6 2005, 05:50 PM
> * just get a rope rigging, and a fall arrestor. done. *


 yes, I've done CPR in a moving bus.....It only sort of works 


Jon


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## coloradoemt (Feb 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Blueeighty8_@Feb 6 2005, 04:47 PM
> * Although some kind of harness would be neat so I wouldn't fall over!
> 
> a little too much information.......
> ...


 Thats a great idea!!! Can you say patent??   Hook the thing into the I'm falling bar on the ceiling of the rig. Make it so it slides and has quick releases so you can switch out easily. Invent this and you can just spend your days posting in these forums while you rake in the cash!!


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 7, 2005)

I believe that they've already tested a couple of systems like that.  The reason that you haven't heard about them yet is that nobody wants to stop CPR long enough to put on a harness so that the can continue CPR.

I usually grab the Oh **** bar above the patient with one hand and perform CPR with the other.  I've got enough upper body bulk (read fat) that I can usually get my compressions deep enough with one hand.


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## emtbuff (Feb 7, 2005)

You know a harness like that could be useful.  And as for the trading out and not wanting to stop CPR there should be away around that if you make it simple enough.  

I for one don't have enough body mass to do CPR with one hand and hold on with the other.  Needless to say though I still haven't had to do CPR in the rig.  So far it has been bagging the pt or hooking up the defib.


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## PArescueEMT (Feb 11, 2005)

Think about tying an 8 at the begining of the shift to the bar, then clip into it with the fall arrestor. done. 5 seconds...tops... locked in, no worries.


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## Jon (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by PArescueEMT_@Feb 11 2005, 02:35 AM
> * Think about tying an 8 at the begining of the shift to the bar, then clip into it with the fall arrestor. done. 5 seconds...tops... locked in, no worries. *


 or, just wear the (very whacker  ) "instructor emergency rappel belt" from galls and clup in with that   

Jon


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## shorthairedpunk (Feb 12, 2005)

The new AHA guidelines pretty much eliminate landmarks, mid nipple is pretty easy to guage, and you can feel the sternum with the ball of yer hand, youre performin bystander CPR, theres no realistic reason to remove the shirt, since you dont have any equipment to put on their exposed chest. Unless shes 18 and tan enough that the cyanosis wont show and be creepy ;-)


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## PArescueEMT (Feb 13, 2005)

but if you are on scene prior to the arrival of EMS, wouldn't you be acting as a first response type of situation? If you are trained with healthcare provider CPR, you do as your taught; i.e. find your landmarks. That is not the only reason as you have seen here. it prepares for EMS, and makes transport theorhetically quicker since they can skip that stage.


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## Wingnut (Feb 13, 2005)

I don't think I could provide that basic of care even if acting as only a first responder. I've had that darn assessment sheet drilled into my head so deeply that if I saw someone drop while I was shoppong at the mall, my first thought is going to be c-spine, then ABC, expose, etc...

Even when I'm teaching I have a very difficult time separating what they need to do as first responders and the things I have been taught to consider and look for.


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## shorthairedpunk (Feb 13, 2005)

Healthcare doenst use landmarks anymore either, just midnipple, which doesnt mean actually going between the nipples or youd be doing compressions on the knees of elderly females. I personally dont carry my shears in my street clothes so i dont see that manipulating the average person who wears non button up shirts, bodys to pull their shirt off as beneficial to anyone. with shears it takes less than two seconds with one hand to cut a shirt off, so it really wont save EMS any time, what it will do is decrease the persons chance for survival if bystander CPR is interrupted to remove a shirt.


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