# Mountain Rescue



## Vizior

I've been seeing a lot of posts here lately regarding mountain rescue, and the area that I'm originally from doesn't have many mountains.  I'm thinking of moving when I get home(in November, if all goes according to plans.), and am interested in doing some research on mountain rescue.  If someone could point me at some resources outlining the basics of how the operations are conducted, the treatment on-scene, how you get to the location, etc.  

My sister lives in Arizona, and in her area I believe most of the rescue is all through the Fire Dept, who covers fire/ems.  Does that seem to be the case in almost all areas?


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## Mountain Res-Q

Vizior said:


> I've been seeing a lot of posts here lately regarding mountain rescue, and the area that I'm originally from doesn't have many mountains.  I'm thinking of moving when I get home(in November, if all goes according to plans.), and am interested in doing some research on mountain rescue.  If someone could point me at some resources outlining the basics of how the operations are conducted, the treatment on-scene, how you get to the location, etc.
> 
> My sister lives in Arizona, and in her area I believe most of the rescue is all through the Fire Dept, who covers fire/ems.  Does that seem to be the case in almost all areas?



I guess I am the main culprit on this one.  :blush:  So, I’ll give what info I can.  “Mountain Rescue” (at least in the U.S.) is a Wilderness Search and Rescue deal.  Search and Rescue in the U.S. is mostly a Law Enforcement Jurisdictional thing.  (i.e. west of the Mississippi most SAR is usually organized under the county Sheriff or other local LE agency.)  Unfortunately, SAR is almost always volunteer.  You will typically see two types of teams:  1. Those that are organized by and maintained by the LE agency (Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, etc…) and 2. Private organizations that have no affiliation with the LE agency, except that they are usually dispatched through and are indirectly supervised by the LE agency.  There are a few exceptions to this (i.e. Federal agencies; but rescue almost always starts at the local level and then progresses up the chain), but this is a general rule.

SAR takes on many different responsibilities and forms depending on the area and the needs of the community.  For instance, in my county we cover altitudes ranging form 500 feet to 14,000 feet.  The terrain is varied, as are the types of calls we run.  So we run Rope Rescues in all terrains, Swiftwater Rescue, Dive Recovery, and Urban/Wilderness Search using helicopters, 4 ATV’s, 4 Snowmobiles, skiers, trackers, dogs, horses, and good old fashioned ground pounders.  But if you go one county over, they are mostly high desert.  They have 20-25 ATVs, 10 decked out dune-buggies and jeeps, several Snow Cats, and everyone has a snowmobile, but no swiftwater, little rope rescue, and few tracking abilities.  It depends on where you go how SAR/Mountain Rescue is provided.  We also have a Medical sub-Team.  While all team members are required to have First Aid/CPR to remain on the SAR team, half the SAR team are MFR, OEC, EMT, Paramedic, or MD.  We are only BLS equipped in the trucks unless there are some special circumstance that require us to utilize the ALS skills of our Paramedics, MDs, or outside ALS resources.  We have a good working relationship with the Ambulance and the Hospital (since several team members work for them) and have “barrowed” supplies and staff if need be.  We locate/access our patients by whatever means available.  Helo is preferred, but rarely suited for every situation.  But if we can simply send in the Air Ambulance (without us going) directly to the scene we will… for the patients sake.  Otherwise we will use 4WD, ATVs, snowmos, horses, or just people on the ground.  The goal is always to get to them fast and then get them to a location where they can be quickly extracted (hopefully by helo).

In Arizona, the structure of Mountain Rescue/SAR is similar to where I live.  Fire/Rescue does primarily Urban Rescue.  SAR Teams still do Wilderness/Mountain Rescue.  I have met a few of the people who do SAR in Arizona and they describe conditions and operations that differ very little from what we do.  If you know the specific area you are looking to move to, google that counties Sheriffs Office.  There should be links associated with the local SAR Teams and their requirements.  But, as I said SAR is almost always a volunteer thing, so make no plans on this being a career.

One of the more know Arizona Teams, Central Arizona Mountain Rescue Association (CAMRA), also known as Maricopa County SAR
http://www.mcsomr.org/

My grandma’s county’s SAR Team in Arizona
http://www.ycsrt.org/

Try these two sites for general Mountain Rescue/EMS Info and Courses, but if you are going to be going to a particular area and want to get into that form of “Mountain Rescue” then check out their particular websites.

Mountain Rescue Assositaion
http://www.mra.org/

The National Outdoor Leadership School (
http://www.nols.edu/

FEEL FREE TO ASK MORE QUESTION OF PM ME IF YOU WANT.  SAR/Wilderness EMS is one of my biggest passions.  Just see how much I write about it!  B)


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## Mountain Res-Q

For a recent debate on exactly how SAR works (at least in the western U.S.) check out this thread:

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=12415


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## LucidResq

National Association of Search and Rescue

Colorado Search and Rescue Board 

AAOS Outdoor Emergency Care Book companion website, related to Ski Patrol - may have some interesting info regarding medical care specific to mountain rescue


Illnesses/emergencies related to altitude


Snow sport injuries


Water rescue



American Rescue Dog Association

Patient Packaging in litters 

High Angle Rescue

Open Directory Project listing for Search and Rescue


IKAR-CISA


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## WarDance

I'm on a team.  Here is our website:
http://wiki.western.edu/wp/index.php/WSCMRT1

Our board just changed so those pages are messed up right now.  It says my name is Tim....definately not!


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## Vizior

I'm looking into the various requirements and training.  I understand it's mostly volunteer, and that's fine.  I'm assuming most of the physical requirements won't be too bad, I'm in fairly good shape.

What is the criteria they use to dispatch your team?  I know that extreme circumstances would require it, but what about things like medical calls on the mountain side?  I guess what I'm trying to understand is that in a time-critical situation, how do you get to the victim/patient?  

What kind of scene work do you guys do?

I know that a lot of it is probably mentioned in the web sites you guys linked, but I've only begun to skim them.  I occasionally have to do work out here(well, that's a lie...)

Thanks


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## Summit

It depends.


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## WarDance

Well with the team I work on there are some pretty strenuous physical requirements.  You need to ba able to hike on some pretty sketchy terrain and do it fast.  Many times you are also carrying a heavy pack too.

We are dispatched to any call that EMS is going to need assistance on.  That means there is some type of technical rescue situation.  We will also be called to searches or avalanches not at the resort.

If possible we do use ATVs, snowmobiles or even horses to speed up the process.  This isn't always an option.  Sometimes it's just hike as fast as you can.

We also do some vertical rescues.  The people that go over the edge for those need to be pretty well versed in climbing.


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## Mountain Res-Q

Vizior said:


> I'm looking into the various requirements and training.  I understand it's mostly volunteer, and that's fine.  I'm assuming most of the physical requirements won't be too bad, I'm in fairly good shape.
> 
> What is the criteria they use to dispatch your team?  I know that extreme circumstances would require it, but what about things like medical calls on the mountain side?  I guess what I'm trying to understand is that in a time-critical situation, how do you get to the victim/patient?
> 
> What kind of scene work do you guys do?
> 
> I know that a lot of it is probably mentioned in the web sites you guys linked, but I've only begun to skim them.  I occasionally have to do work out here(well, that's a lie...)
> 
> Thanks



I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for, but I'll give you some more information specific to my team:

In order to be on our team you must meet these basic requirements:  U.S. resident, county citizen, in good physical shape for what you plan on taking part in (no testing and "good" is subjective - we had a 300+ pound 5'8" guy who wa an expert in Horses and ATV's, but was... well, fat.), Basic First Aid/CPR, Low Angle Rope Rescue, ICS 100/200, and a clean NCIC background check.  That may seem pretty basic, but since our team members all specialize in differnet areas, thats all we require for all people.  Example:  The year I joined, two others joined with me: One was a 55yo former rock climber with no background in rescue, but within that first year he took a ton of classes and certified as a Rope Rescue Technician and a Swiftwater Rescue Technician and was elected training officer for 2 years.  The other was a 35yo soccer mom whose only asset was that she was a horseback rider and had her own horse.  She is awesome and trained/volunteers for anything; ropes, helo, logistics.  Of corse we love when team members join with massive amounts of ropes, water, medical, helo, search, dive, etc... training/certification, but the biggest assest any volunteer can have is _the desire to _volunteer and help.  We have taken 18yo out of high school with no training and turned them into expert team leaders.  However, all newbies are on probation for one year and can be canned at any time (they must also meet certain mission/training hour requirements that first year).  I joined the team with just those basic requirements and my EMT (+ 4 years experience in EMS) and within the last ~4 years have trained and certified in Swiftwater Rescue, Search Management, ATV Rescue, Helos, Canines, and am now a Team Leader.

Now, our team is divided up into 10 sub-specialty-teams: Search, Technical (Ropes), Swiftwater/Flood, Dive, Nordic (Winter), OHV (ATV & Snowmobiles), Mounted, Air Ops, Medical, and Canine.  All team members are required to be a member of at least 2 (Search and one other).  If you meet that teams qualifications, then you can respond as a member of that team.  For instance, I am a member of the Medical, Swiftwater, Canine, OHV, Technical, and Search, and am a support member for Air Opsl.  I have little intereest in Horses, Dive, and Nordic.  That said, when the pager goes off, no matter what the call, we all respond.  It it is a Ropes call, and you are not on the Ropes Team, all that means is that we will not put you into the hot/warm zones.  You will assist in the cold zone in some fashion.  Since this thread comes from the Medical Srandpoint: In order to be on my Medical Team you have to have MFR or Higher (MFR, OEC, WFR, EMTB, WEMT, EMTP, RN, or MD).  But if you are not a part of the ropes team, air ops, mounted, OHV, nordic, you are walking your a** into the patient.  (I prefer the helo or ATV, myslef).  We are BLS equiped only, but as said before have barrowed ALS supplies/people from ER/Ambulance if need be.  We use any means to get to our goal asap.  The basic run down on how we are dipatched is as follows:

911 gets called by either the victim or family/friends.  Call gets turfed to the Sheriffs Office (who once again is responsible for all SAR in the county).  The dispatcher takes all the info they can and calls the Deputy Liaision.  These are paid SAR trained Deputies that rotate on-call weeks.  Whatever deputy is on that week takes the call and determines if it is a SAR call.  This is because many calls should either be fire dept calls, or can be handled by other (quicker) means than paging out the team.  For instance:  If we get a cell phone call form the vic who broke a leg in the middle of the wilderness and we know right where he is, we can call the Air Ambulacne, who can be on scen in 30 minutes wiht a MICP and MICN.  Other times the call is handled by the deputy faster than mobilizing the team, or orest Serivice drives out to them, or it isn;t really an emergency that we can do anything for (well supplied, healthy group "stranded" on the otherside of a creek that will receed in 24 hours).  If the deputy recognizes this as a SAR team call, he tells dispatch to page us.  We all carry alpha-numeric pagers.  Pages read:  "All SAR memebrs (or a specific team) respond to the cache (or other place) for __________."  We usually respond to the SAR Cahce, where we store the team gear/vehicles, get briefed, and respond according to the IC's commands.  Now, this isn't always the case, which is why the deputies exist to detemine what course of action to take.  Two completely different examples:

2 girls go over a waterfall about 1 hour from the closest town/ambulance.  This is an emergenct rescue call.  I just happened to be 25 minutes away and responded Code 2.5 in my POV becasue going to the Cache would have taken an extra hour.  I (along with 2 other team members) get on scene 1.5 hours before the rest of Swiftwater Team can.  We rescued one girl; the otehr died about 3 minutes before the 911 call went out.  Had I been in town, I would have gone to the cache, preped the vehciles, and waited for a few others to show before we responded.  FYI, a helo, the SAR Swiftwater Unit, 2 SAR trucks, 2 deputies, Forest Service, and 1 Fire Unit all responded, but we were the only ones equiped to perform Swiftwater Rescue.

60 year old female outdoor enthusiast walks away from camp to go meditate.  BERKLEY LIBERAL!  Seriously, the camp was run by UC Berkley.  She fails to show for dinner, so at 2000 hours, the camp calls the SO.  Hypotheticly, the deputy could have paged the team, and by the time we mobilized and got on scne it would have been midnight or latter (perhaps as late as 0200 hours).  The area is not extreme, 4000 elevation, summer cool weather, she is an experiened adult outdoors person, no medical known medical issues, etc...  Searching at night in teh conditions that area was in would have been futile, exhausting for the team who would have had to do it all nigh and day.  The page went out to mobilize teh following morning at the Cache at 0600.  We all got sleep, we had the time to secure additional resources (Mutual Aid Team, outside ATV's, outside dogs, and a helo), the team got briefed properly, we formulated a plan, and conducted a great search that resulted in a rescue.

The big thing you have to realize is that we are all volunteers who love what we do and cannot be experts in everything.  We all have our own talents.  Any prior training, certification, and experience you have is desirable.  But every team has it's own requirements based on their area.  i.e our neighbor to the south, Yosemite SAR requires all team members to be certified in Swiftwater and High Angle Ropes.  

I know I ramble, but does any of that help?  If not, keep asking for more specifics.  B)


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## WarDance

Mountain Res-Q said:


> i.e our neighbor to the south, Yosemite SAR requires all team members to be certified in Swiftwater and High Angle Ropes.
> 
> I know I ramble, but does any of that help?  If not, keep asking for more specifics.  B)



YOSAR looks for alot more than that!  They have sent recruitment info to our team and they have pretty high standards.  I wish I still had the email.  They are also a paid team so they can expect a little more out of their members.


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## Mountain Res-Q

WarDance said:


> YOSAR looks for alot more than that!  They have sent recruitment info to our team and they have pretty high standards.  I wish I still had the email.  They are also a paid team so they can expect a little more out of their members.



YOSAR is great, but my single sentance was just an example of how every SAR team is different in how they are organized, what they require, what they do.  We have a Mutual Aid Contract with Yosemite and have asked for their aid from time to time (mostly large scale technical gigs) and have assisted them many, many times (mostely large scale searches).  That said, I have had bad experiences with the way they organize/run searches, they seem to be more techincal than search oriented.  A few corrections on them, however, as I understand they way they work.  ~96% of all SAR in the U.S. is volunteer.  The exceptions are some National Parks (like YOSAR), Coast Guard, and the occasional paid county team (RARE).  YOSAR is paid... kind of.  Vast portions of the Park are closed in the Winter, so it is mostly a seasonal job.  The SAR folks are based out of two camp, they are on call 24/7 (like the rest of us), but never leave the park (unless given leave).  They are not paid for the on-call time (except for a small stipend, I believe).  They are only paid for training time and mission time; so most of them have other park jobs (as I understand).  Now YOSAR is a very busy team, but most of the team members appear to be between the ages of 22-28, since you really can't make a career out of 100 missions a summer.  But, yes their team has far greater requirements.  I've talked to their folks and they run a lot of Swiftwater Calls in the Merced River, a lot of High Angle calls on El Cap/Half Dome/etc..., and a lot of wilderness searches and evacuations.  I once talked to the guy who was the epuipment officer; and he told a story about a rescue on the Cap in '06 (3000 feet tall).  He said the amount of rope, webbing, biners, etc... was staggering to keep track of!

DISCLAIMER:  While we work with YOSAR from time to time, my basic understading on how tehy work is not absolute, and anyone interest in them should contact them dirrectly through the Park Service; this however, is some more info on them:

*http://www.friendsofyosar.org/*


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## WarDance

I would love to work for YOSAR for a summer but I'm not that good of a climber!  Some of our team members have gone to work for them during the summer and they came back as some of the most technically savvy people on our team.  YOSAR does provide room and board to its members so they might not be making much money but they do have a free place to stay (and probably do plenty of climbing while not out on a call).


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## Mountain Res-Q

WarDance said:


> I would love to work for YOSAR for a summer but I'm not that good of a climber!  Some of our team members have gone to work for them during the summer and they came back as some of the *most technically savvy people on our team*.  YOSAR does provide room and board to its members *so they might not be making much money but they do have a free place to stay* (and probably do plenty of climbing while not out on a call).



Oh, absolutely.  Those folks know their stuff, they have to when dealing with those environments.  I still disagree wiht some of their philosophys, especially in areas of NFPA vs. SAR and when it comes to Search Management.  They do provide room & board at the camps, so it isn't a total loss, but I can't see it becoming a carrer for most of the YOSAR folks, but a summer gig for a year or two, maybe several years for those die hard SAR folks.  As far as the climbing thing goes... that's the only reason I haven't tried to join YOSAR.  I've climbed before, but never really liked it... it is a completely different dynamic than rope rescue.  One you are going up to reach the top using climbing gear, the other you are working your way down to a victim on rescue gear.  On top of that I have a small issue with being out of control, and placing my life in the hands of the rope, gear, and gravity makes me uncomfortable in high angle gigs.

But, yes, if their is a career to be had in Mountain Rescue, your best bet is a National Park.  Op, if you really want to get into SAR/Mountain Rescue the four certifications I would recommend would be Rope Rescue Technician, Swiftwater Rescue Technician Advacned, Search Management, and Wilderness EMT.  There are a lot of other certifications in SAR, but those would be a great asset to any team you try to join.  But as I said before, a willing spirit and dedication to learn and volunteer (to be cold, tired, and wet for days on end) is the best thing any SAR members can bring to the table.


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## LucidResq

Vizior said:


> I'm assuming most of the physical requirements won't be too bad, I'm in fairly good shape.



If you think you're in good shape, get in better shape. Imagine this. After a long day of work you go to sleep at 2330. You are called out for a missing hiker at 0200 - the LSP (last seen point) is about an hour's drive away. You get there, all meet up, brief and plan until the sun just starts coming up, then get started. Some coffee and a Clif bar for breakfast if you're lucky. 

Your team gets to whatever pattern you're searching, and you hike, carrying your pack of personal gear. You are expected to be very well-prepared. My team has requirements that all members carry enough food, water and equipment to not only be self-sufficient but support a victim for 48 hours. I have searched off-trail on fairly rough terrain much more often than off-trail. I have been on my feet hiking with a pack that weighs about 45 lbs for 6-8 hrs. That is pretty average and standard. Your team finishes your pattern, and you get back to base, get a little rest and food, get another assignment, and go do it again until the victim is found. No team is the same, and no search is the same, but this has been my typical experience with searching; essentially a ton of high-altitude, backcountry hiking carrying a significant amount of weight for several hours, regardless of weather conditions (hot, raining, snowing) on little-to-no-sleep. This is just the S of the SAR. 

As far as the R, you should be prepared to do essentially the same thing, except while acting as a litter-bearer in addition to your personal equipment and potentially rescue or medical equipment (have fun carrying a high-angle rock bag!). Often, victims can walk themselves out, or an ATV or helicopter can be brought in pretty close, but "carry-outs" happen all the time, and they are hard. 

SAR is the most physically demanding thing I've ever done, and that's not saying a lot coming from me, but many of my teammates are high-level athletes and ALL of them will agree with me. 




Vizior said:


> What is the criteria they use to dispatch your team?  I know that extreme circumstances would require it, but what about things like medical calls on the mountain side?  I guess what I'm trying to understand is that in a time-critical situation, how do you get to the victim/patient?



As mentioned, we use helicopters, ATVs, skis, snowcats, horses, boats, etc, whenever possible. Sometimes you can only get in by foot. Criteria.... we're dispatched by our Sheriff's Office for stuff in our county, or called for MA by the state search and rescue board. We were once called to help out a fire dept. A guy crashed his dirt bike 2 miles off the road and broke his femur. They knew exactly where he was, and had an LZ for a helicopter set up, but had difficulty getting a medic with a jump bag in to him. Big shiny fire truck is obviously worthless in this situation. We were in the area so they called us for our ATVs, basically. 



Vizior said:


> What kind of scene work do you guys do?


Most of our patients are stable. They're either dead or will not die anytime in the near future. If the person needs to be rescued... removed from a rock face or river or what not, that will be done obviously.

 Medically, good patient packaging is critical, and so is comfort. There are some very unique points in SAR EMS - you have to be very conscious of the comfort of your pt... they may be have been out alone for days without food or adequate water. The process of getting them to care may also take a very long time. They probably have family they would like to talk to if possible. You're often working with limited equipment in a demanding environment, so you have to be resourceful and creative more so than on an ambulance. Your medical director, or anyone at all for that matter, is often not a simple phone call away. You may completely lose contact with the world. You can only carry so much O2 in. You may want to put your pt. on 12-15 LPM via NRB, but when all you have is a D cylinder or 2, and a 4 hour carry-out ahead of you... well you do the math.


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## Vizior

And once again, EMTLife has proven to be quite the valuable resource.  

Outside of my EMS training I don't believe I have any skills that would be of much use, but have never minded taking classes.  I've always enjoyed things like that.  If I get the opportunity to move to an area where that becomes a possibility, I'd like to at least get involved for a few years.

As for the physical shape, I'm always going to the gym out here... not too much else to do when I'm not working.  Boredom has begun to set in, and that's why I'm looking at things like SAR for when I get home.  The hiking with a pack is never fun, but there are ways to train for it.  And sometimes there are things you just have to suck up and deal with it.  

The general settings for SAR seems as if it would be very conducive to critical thinking, and improvising.  Obviously you all like what you do, otherwise you wouldn't be involved as heavily as you are.  If you had any advice for someone interested in joining in a few months, what would you recommendation be?

Also, I believe if I were to move to AZ it would be the Maricopa area, so that web site is a great resources, thank you.


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## Mountain Res-Q

LucidResq said:


> If you think you're in good shape, get in better shape. Imagine this. After a long day of work you go to sleep at 2330. You are called out for a missing hiker at 0200 - the LSP (last seen point) is about an hour's drive away. You get there, all meet up, brief and plan until the sun just starts coming up, then get started. Some coffee and a Clif bar for breakfast if you're lucky.
> 
> Your team gets to whatever pattern you're searching, and you hike, carrying your pack of personal gear. You are expected to be very well-prepared. My team has requirements that all members carry enough food, water and equipment to not only be self-sufficient but support a victim for 48 hours. I have searched off-trail on fairly rough terrain much more often than off-trail. I have been on my feet hiking with a pack that weighs about 45 lbs for 6-8 hrs. That is pretty average and standard. Your team finishes your pattern, and you get back to base, get a little rest and food, get another assignment, and go do it again until the victim is found. No team is the same, and no search is the same, but this has been my typical experience with searching; essentially a ton of high-altitude, backcountry hiking carrying a significant amount of weight for several hours, regardless of weather conditions (hot, raining, snowing) on little-to-no-sleep. This is just the S of the SAR.
> 
> As far as the R, you should be prepared to do essentially the same thing, except while acting as a litter-bearer in addition to your personal equipment and potentially rescue or medical equipment (have fun carrying a high-angle rock bag!). Often, victims can walk themselves out, or an ATV or helicopter can be brought in pretty close, but "carry-outs" happen all the time, and they are hard.
> 
> SAR is the most physically demanding thing I've ever done, and that's not saying a lot coming from me, but many of my teammates are high-level athletes and ALL of them will agree with me.
> 
> As mentioned, we use helicopters, ATVs, skis, snowcats, horses, boats, etc, whenever possible. Sometimes you can only get in by foot. Criteria.... we're dispatched by our Sheriff's Office for stuff in our county, or called for MA by the state search and rescue board. We were once called to help out a fire dept. A guy crashed his dirt bike 2 miles off the road and broke his femur. They knew exactly where he was, and had an LZ for a helicopter set up, but had difficulty getting a medic with a jump bag in to him. Big shiny fire truck is obviously worthless in this situation. We were in the area so they called us for our ATVs, basically.
> 
> Most of our patients are stable. They're either dead or will not die anytime in the near future. If the person needs to be rescued... removed from a rock face or river or what not, that will be done obviously.
> 
> Medically, good patient packaging is critical, and so is comfort. There are some very unique points in SAR EMS - you have to be very conscious of the comfort of your pt... they may be have been out alone for days without food or adequate water. The process of getting them to care may also take a very long time. They probably have family they would like to talk to if possible. You're often working with limited equipment in a demanding environment, so you have to be resourceful and creative more so than on an ambulance. Your medical director, or anyone at all for that matter, is often not a simple phone call away. You may completely lose contact with the world. You can only carry so much O2 in. You may want to put your pt. on 12-15 LPM via NRB, but when all you have is a D cylinder or 2, and a 4 hour carry-out ahead of you... well you do the math.



Careful, Lucid, I am getting turned on.  ^_^  Yep, you pretty much summed it all up.  SAR calls always happen at the worst possible time (middle of the night, weekends, holidays) and you had better get used to the words cold, tired, difficult, exhausted, sacrafice, and POISION OAK!  The way I always describe this to newbies is "We do everything the Fire Department and Forest Service can't do or won't do."  Medically speaking, yep, dead or stable by the time you get to them, for the most part.  Our team is more minimalistic in our gear and we travel light when it comes to medical gear.  Find em, get em warm, bandage up any wounds, and get em out... there is little you can do for them in the middle of nowhere.  Most only carry a ziplock sized bag of medical gear.  I carry a little more, but when you are searching for hours and days in crappy terrain, you learn to leave the O2, splints, and BP Cuff in the truck.  If it is a pure rescue (know where they are now get to them) we try to use helo, horses, or OHV to get to them and get em out, but humping it in is often the only way... expect to carry tech packs, medical packs, and a litter (w/ a patient) in addition to your 40+ lbs of gear.  GOT TA LOVE IT!



Vizior said:


> And once again, EMTLife has proven to be quite the valuable resource.
> 
> Outside of my EMS training I don't believe I have any skills that would be of much use, but have never minded taking classes.  I've always enjoyed things like that.  If I get the opportunity to move to an area where that becomes a possibility, I'd like to at least get involved for a few years.
> 
> As for the physical shape, I'm always going to the gym out here... not too much else to do when I'm not working.  Boredom has begun to set in, and that's why I'm looking at things like SAR for when I get home.  The hiking with a pack is never fun, but there are ways to train for it.  And sometimes there are things you just have to suck up and deal with it.
> 
> The general settings for SAR seems as if it would be very conducive to critical thinking, and improvising.  Obviously you all like what you do, otherwise you wouldn't be involved as heavily as you are.  If you had any advice for someone interested in joining in a few months, what would you recommendation be?
> 
> Also, I believe if I were to move to AZ it would be the Maricopa area, so that web site is a great resources, thank you.



As I said before, few join SAR with massive amounts of SAR training.  Our team is 60% composed of non emergency service workers (Hikers, Horsemen, Hunters, Climbers, Rafters, Skiiers, ATVers, divers, Backpackers, etc...), but ther are always those folks with backgrounds in Ski Patrol, Fire, Ambulance, and the Military.  But most of those skills learned there do not easily transition over to SAR.  IMHO, the military folks tend to have the upper hand.  Most SAR teams recognize the one skill that sets us apart from most other services.. a willing spirit to volunteer and learn... and to have a lot of fun.  Yes, physical fitness and endurance is important.  Strength is not a plus in my mind.  Some of the best folks I work with are smaller, fit women with little physical strength, but a lot of heart along with a "never give up" attitude.  I am not the most fit (Fast Food EMS habits die hard) and have been put to shame by those women more than once.  But as a volunteer, you do what you can and you get used to very little praise for what you do.  We have a guy on our team that is 70-80 years old (a veteran of the Battle of Inchon) who looks like he is ready to fall apart... but he is always there and does what he can... even if that is just manning the ICP.  Advice for those looking to get into SAR...  Always get in the best shape you can, look into Rope Rescue Courses (Low Angle is only about 30 hours), look into wilderness medical courses (if that is your thing - Wilderness First Responder or Outdoor Emergency Care), and when you get on to a team: become _involved in your team_... nothing makes me madder than those folks who join with no assets and make no attempt to train with us or further their education.  They show up for calls now and then, but are useless becasue we son;t know what they know (which is usually not much) and we can;t trust them not to kill themselves or us.  We always tell our newbies, "If in a year when we vote to end your probationary period and most of the team has no clue who you are... then your spot will be made available to another more deserving guy."


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## LucidResq

Mountain Res-Q said:


> and when you get on to a team: become _involved in your team_... nothing makes me madder than those folks who join with no assets and make no attempt to train with us or further their education.  They show up for calls now and then, but are useless becasue we son;t know what they know (which is usually not much) and we can;t trust them not to kill themselves or us.  We always tell our newbies, "If in a year when we vote to end your probationary period and most of the team has no clue who you are... then your spot will be made available to another more deserving guy."



Abbbbbbsolutely. You will only get out of it what you put in. Be willing to do the dirty work. 

Be aware of the psych impacts. They can be unique from EMS. There's something extremely unsettling about being unable to find someone - not even a body or trace. It happens rarely but sometimes people just disappear off the face of the Earth. It's never happened in my time, but my team has responded to small aircraft crashes... to recover body parts. And I mean _parts_.


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## LucidResq

Vizior said:


> A If you had any advice for someone interested in joining in a few months, what would you recommendation be?



Keep working on getting in shape. Core and leg strength are obviously crucial, but I've found that forearm, wrist, hand and grip strength are extremely nice assets for carrying a litter. Endurance. Endurance. Endurance. Go hiking with a heavy pack, simulate the conditions you'll be working under. 

You might want to start thinking about getting a good pair of boots. Do some research, find a good pair, and break 'em in early. This is equipment that I can guarantee you will need regardless of where you volunteer. 

Start contacting teams in areas you may move to. Ask lots of questions. If you get out in to the areas, ask if you can be a guest at a training, meeting or class.


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## Mountain Res-Q

LucidResq said:


> Be aware of the psych impacts. They can be unique from EMS. There's something extremely unsettling about being unable to find someone - not even a body or trace. It happens rarely but sometimes people just disappear off the face of the Earth. It's never happened in my time, but my team has responded to small aircraft crashes... to recover body parts. And I mean _parts_.



Oh, the stories...  I actually broke down at work last year after a really bad 4 day mission... I talk about it here from time to time (therapy).  Sadely SAR often stands for Search and Recovery.  The worst are 1. The ones you can't save despite everything you do and knowing that they might have lived if you were (unrealalisticly) a lttle faster and 2. the children.  My first call was a 12 year old drowning victim that was submerged for 1 month before a bear removed her from teh water and left very little to recover.  You develop a sick sence of humor fast... even more sick than on Ambulance.  The ones you never find suck because there is no conclusion, no job over, well done.  We have one that is still outsatnding that makes no sense to even the 30 year vets of the team.  When I joined I had no clue what was really involved... know I know and have the GREATEST respect for anyone who volunteers to put themself through that termoil, pain, and joys.  I don;t know how SAR is for the rest of you, but we have a high turnover rate; 2 years tends to be most peoples limit of what they can physically and emotionally handle.  Even person that joined the same year I joined 4 years ago have already quit.  Very few last longer than 5 and those few that have 10 or more years are really special.


----------



## Mountain Res-Q

LucidResq said:


> Keep working on getting in shape. Core and leg strength are obviously crucial, but I've found that forearm, wrist, hand and grip strength are extremely nice assets for carrying a litter. *Endurance. Endurance. Endurance. Go hiking with a heavy pack,* simulate the conditions you'll be working under.
> 
> You might want to start thinking about getting a good pair of boots. Do some research, find a good pair, and break 'em in early. This is equipment that I can guarantee you will need regardless of where you volunteer.
> 
> *Start contacting teams in areas you may move to. Ask lots of questions. If you get out in to the areas, ask if you can be a guest at a training, meeting or class*.



Hike and train at higher altitudes if possible.  Minimum of 5000 feet if not more.

Our team actually encourages this.  We have a 1 hour basic specialty training followed by a 1-2 hour business meeting every month.  ANYONE is invited to attend.  The interested usually come to the Cahce, see the pictures on the wall, talk to the team, listen to our stories, see what we do, and deside if this is for them.  If it is, then they fill out an app right there (assuming they meet the requirements).  If they show next month at the next meeting and the app was approved by the Sheriff, then we can interview them and vote them on as probationary members.


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## WarDance

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Medically speaking, yep, dead or stable by the time you get to them, for the most part.  Our team is more minimalistic in our gear and we travel light when it comes to medical gear.  Find em, get em warm, bandage up any wounds, and get em out... there is little you can do for them in the middle of nowhere.  Most only carry a ziplock sized bag of medical gear.  I carry a little more, but when you are searching for hours and days in crappy terrain, you learn to leave the O2, splints, and BP Cuff in the truck.  If it is a pure rescue (know where they are now get to them) we try to use helo, horses, or OHV to get to them and get em out, but humping it in is often the only way... expect to carry tech packs, medical packs, and a litter (w/ a patient) in addition to your 40+ lbs of gear.  GOT TA LOVE IT!



Do you guys use a RIT team in search situations?  We carry a "hasty med" during the search but once the patient is found the RIT team responds and brings us more medical gear.


----------



## Mountain Res-Q

WarDance said:


> Do you guys use a RIT team in search situations?  We carry a "hasty med" during the search but once the patient is found the RIT team responds and brings us more medical gear.



By RIT, I assume you mean "Rapid Intervention Team".  That is a term I haven't heard used outside of Fire in California.  On a search we utalize Hasty Teams; basicly the first 3-4 team members to show up on a call get sent out to the scene first and utalize sign cutting and other clue awareness techniques.  On a pure medical deal (we know where they are now we need to get to them) it really depends.  Yes, we would like to send in an EMT or Medic ASAP, but what if this is a high angle rope rescue gig, and the best ones suited to get down there are just First Aid?  They get tdown there first and then we well send in an EMT/Medic if available.  Typically, though, I prefer to have the first person/people sent is to be EMT or higher and for search teams we try to have at least one MFR/EMT/Medic per team, but when 1/2 our team is First Aid only and you are never sure who will be available to respond... you work with what you got.  I respond to 80% of all calls myself, so if it is medical in nature, I prefer to go in since I am the only team member whose skills (even as a lowely EMT) I am 100% confident.  We only have 2 Paramedics and 1 Doc on the Team, so they may not be available, otherwise I would send them in.  Generally speaking though, our people have become used to going light; the less we carry on a call, the faster we move and the more energetic we are.  Most personal medical packs consist of a few gloves, bandages, gauze, and maybe a sam splint.  If more is needed then, yes, another team, carrying basicly just the requested medical/tech gear will move in next... or we will get a helo to short haul it in... or we will use what gear we have and set up an LZ (if possible) for an air Ambulance w/ a completly geared MICN and MICP.


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## Summit

Mtn Res Q should write a novel... I can't read all that! 



WarDance said:


> Do you guys use a RIT team in search situations?  We carry a "hasty med" during the search but once the patient is found the RIT team responds and brings us more medical gear.



We do that... of course we share training and, over time, personnel.


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## Mountain Res-Q

Summit said:


> Mtn Res Q should write a novel... I can't read all that!



:blush:  Ya, I've been accused of that from time to time.  I actually wrote a couple teenage novels when I was younger just for fun... I also tend to ramble alot.  But on the bright side, my skills come in handy when writing PCRs and when I was elected to rewrite our teams training manual.  :blush:


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## Mountain Res-Q

I thought some of you in SAR / Mountain Rescue might appreciate this...

Our Monthly Team Meeting was last night.  1 hour refreasher on UTMs followed by the business meeting.  As always, some interesting stuff was discussed, recent misssions, trainings, etc...  

We got ourselves a new vehicle.  Currently we have 4 vehciles:

SAR 1, a 2000ish 2 person utility that carries 90% of our tech/medical gear.
SAR 3, a 1970's ford pickup that has been rotting on its rims since I joined.
SAR 4, a 1970's For Ceturian 350 that can make 50mph if we get out and push, but it seats 9
SAR 5, a big old mack truck that the team modified to orinigally carry the mine rescue gear.  It barely runs.

Basiclly, we are the bast*rd stepchildren of County Emergency Services and never get anything new or good.  Last night we show up and there is a Black and White Ford Expedition in the Bay.  Turns out that our Sheriff is getting a couple more Expeditions for the Patrol boys and they were gonna get rid of what is a perfectly good SUV (minus it's electircal fire last year).  It is completely decked out (more so that what we usually get) with red/blue lights, siren, 4WD, gun rack, and a cage in the back for the criminals.  Ya, you heard me... gun rack for the shotgun and cage!  What's more, we are not allowed to remove any of that or repaint it white so that isn't a b&w.  Why?  Becasue even though they were gonna get rid of it, when they realized that the unit would still be used within the SO, they decided that it we could add a few extra SAR decals and insignia to the car and house it at the Cache, but if Patrol needed it in winter, then they could steal it back.  So, we have gotten rid of SAR 3, stocked the new boy with ropes, tech gear, and medical gear... but were given several warnings;

1. You are driving a b&w w/ a big ol' SHERIFF decal on the sider.  You are a target for thugs and those that would wave you down.  Which means that we must stop for virtually ever fender bender, when we would have normally radioed (assuming it was non-injury) it in and continued to our call.
2. If you are a passenger in the back, you will be behind a glass cage and the dorrs won't open from the inside!
3. MY FAV:  While there is a shot gun mount inide the cab, they took out all LE equipment, so we have to bring our own shotguns now!  j/k

But, at least we got a new vehicel that runs!


----------



## LucidResq

Mountain Res-Q said:


> I thought some of you in SAR / Mountain Rescue might appreciate this...
> 
> Our Monthly Team Meeting was last night.  1 hour refreasher on UTMs followed by the business meeting.  As always, some interesting stuff was discussed, recent misssions, trainings, etc...
> 
> We got ourselves a new vehicle.  Currently we have 4 vehciles:
> 
> SAR 1, a 2000ish 2 person utility that carries 90% of our tech/medical gear.
> SAR 3, a 1970's ford pickup that has been rotting on its rims since I joined.
> SAR 4, a 1970's For Ceturian 350 that can make 50mph if we get out and push, but it seats 9
> SAR 5, a big old mack truck that the team modified to orinigally carry the mine rescue gear.  It barely runs.
> 
> Basiclly, we are the bast*rd stepchildren of County Emergency Services and never get anything new or good.  Last night we show up and there is a Black and White Ford Expedition in the Bay.  Turns out that our Sheriff is getting a couple more Expeditions for the Patrol boys and they were gonna get rid of what is a perfectly good SUV (minus it's electircal fire last year).  It is completely decked out (more so that what we usually get) with red/blue lights, siren, 4WD, gun rack, and a cage in the back for the criminals.  Ya, you heard me... gun rack for the shotgun and cage!  What's more, we are not allowed to remove any of that or repaint it white so that isn't a b&w.  Why?  Becasue even though they were gonna get rid of it, when they realized that the unit would still be used within the SO, they decided that it we could add a few extra SAR decals and insignia to the car and house it at the Cache, but if Patrol needed it in winter, then they could steal it back.  So, we have gotten rid of SAR 3, stocked the new boy with ropes, tech gear, and medical gear... but were given several warnings;
> 
> 1. You are driving a b&w w/ a big ol' SHERIFF decal on the sider.  You are a target for thugs and those that would wave you down.  Which means that we must stop for virtually ever fender bender, when we would have normally radioed (assuming it was non-injury) it in and continued to our call.
> 2. If you are a passenger in the back, you will be behind a glass cage and the dorrs won't open from the inside!
> 3. MY FAV:  While there is a shot gun mount inide the cab, they took out all LE equipment, so we have to bring our own shotguns now!  j/k
> 
> But, at least we got a new vehicel that runs!



Wow! I'm jealous. Hmmm.....



Mountain Res-Q said:


> Basiclly, we are the bast*rd stepchildren of County Emergency Services and never get anything new or good.



Sounds strangely familiar. I'm often tempted to strike. Let's see how they handle all the SAR calls, evidence searches, crime scene securities, trainings, event "presence" and traffic direction, etc without us. I'd like to see them dig up the funds, and then manage getting enough personnel trained and available. SAR is Sheriff's legal responsibility, after all. 

It's interesting. Some SAR teams out here are absolutely pampered by their SOs... constantly getting new equipment and $. Others get jack. Like mine.


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## Mountain Res-Q

LucidResq said:


> Wow! I'm jealous. Hmmm.....
> 
> Sounds strangely familiar. I'm often tempted to strike. Let's see how they handle all the SAR calls, evidence searches, crime scene securities, trainings, event "presence" and traffic direction, etc without us. I'd like to see them dig up the funds, and then manage getting enough personnel trained and available. SAR is Sheriff's legal responsibility, after all.
> 
> It's interesting. Some SAR teams out here are absolutely pampered by their SOs... constantly getting new equipment and $. Others get jack. Like mine.



Don't be too jealous.  It's the first "nice" thing we have gotten in forever.  Let's put it this way... Our yearly budget is $12,000 if we are lucky.  Most of that goes to "rebuilding" the drysuits, new ropes, new tech gear, new jackets, etc...  Whatever is left over we get to "play" with... you know, unimportant things like snowshoes, flashlights, helmets...   Ya, I too would like to see what they would do if we striked.  But, then again, we don't do it for teh pay or the recognition... there is none... But I would like to see a bigger budget so that we can be kept as well equiped as our $500,000 a year volunteer fire department.  Until that day "never comes", we got a new SUV.  YA!!!


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## James 61

Mountain Res-Q,

I was quite impressed with the way you answered the OPs questions.  I seriously doubt I could have done that well and I've field several questions on another forum I belong too.  

I started in SAR at the beginning of 2004 so I'm going into my 6th year.  We have a small handfull of peole who have been at it for longer than me but most of our team is fairly new.  You sure nailed it on the head about being a thankless and tough job/hobby.  Usually the families of the missing person(s) are very appreciative but the public as a whole doesn't appreciate what we do.  Additionally we get a lot of disrespect from the fire community.  Retention is tough for us also.  Our manpower numbers have been dwindling for the last couple of years but we have gotten some new members recently.  One of them is extremely on fire so we appointed him to the board and put him in charge of recruitment and fundraising.  He has been doing a great job.

Somebody brought up missions in which the subject cannot be located.  I can't remember the number of searches I've been on over the years but I'm afraid to say a half of the missions we have been on have not been sucessful.  Either we cannot find the subject or the subject passed on.  I clearly remember the missions that resulted in a recouvery.  I've been lucky in that all the searches I have been on involving children have been successful and we have returned them to their families alive.  I also will never forget my first rescue.  It was all I talked about for three days.  It is a feeling that will never leave you.  Knowing that you reached into the jaws of death and snatched a life from back makes all worth it.

I hear you about outdated gear.  We are a independent and non-profit so all of our funding comes from donations and fundraising.  We bring in about $10k a year and most of it is spent on maintance and operations of vehicles.  We also have a building and vehicle bay.  
Our mechanized gear consists of
42 - a 1983 4wd suburban.  It is main rig and carries all the medical and rope gear plus our personnal gear
52 - a vietnam era 2 1/2 ton truck that carries our sno-cat and tows trailers.
54- a 60s vintage sno-cat.  It has been modified with a completely enclossed box that can carry 8 rescues plus a driver and asst and gear, a two axis plow blade and has a can tow a sled
We also recently sold a 1976(?) motorhome that was our comms/command/rehab vehicle and bought a 1996 mid length school bus that is currently being heavily modified to become our new base vehicle.
We have a rescue sled designed to be towed behind a snowmobile and one snowmobile.  Several people on the team have their own snowmobiles.
We also have a 10k military surplus generator on a trailer and recently put together a second trailer with two 5k generators a light tower and a repeater.  This trailer is also being fitted with skis so it can be towed up to a mountain top in the winter and set up.

Just on a side note.  A couple of years ago several team members sudied for and got their amateur radio licenses.  We currently have 9 operators with a mixture of Tech and General licenses.  We also invested in 5 dual band amateur radios.  The added capability has been really helpful.  I know some other teams in our area have done this also but I was wondering if anybody outside our area has goten into this.


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## LucidResq

James 61 said:


> Just on a side note.  A couple of years ago several team members sudied for and got their amateur radio licenses.  We currently have 9 operators with a mixture of Tech and General licenses.  We also invested in 5 dual band amateur radios.  The added capability has been really helpful.  I know some other teams in our area have done this also but I was wondering if anybody outside our area has goten into this.



Our team has our own FCC license, and we are licensed or permitted to talk on several different area public safety channels, including sheriff, fire and some police. There are 2 (maybe 3? but only 2 are in regular use) channels that almost every team in the state use, primarily for big missions with multiple agencies/teams working together. We have quite a few (15+) VHF and digital radios, some donated, some purchased. Members must go through our own day-long communications class and pass a test before they are allowed on the radio.

Oh, and when I was Lt., I was issued a take-home motorola 800 mhz radio. I miss it


----------



## Mountain Res-Q

LucidResq said:


> Our team has our own FCC license, and we are licensed or permitted to talk on several different area public safety channels, including sheriff, fire and some police. There are 2 (maybe 3? but only 2 are in regular use) channels that almost every team in the state use, primarily for big missions with multiple agencies/teams working together. We have quite a few (15+) VHF and digital radios, some donated, some purchased. Members must go through our own day-long communications class and pass a test before they are allowed on the radio.
> 
> Oh, and when I was Lt., I was issued a take-home motorola 800 mhz radio. I miss it



We run things a littel different in that regard.  OUr county has a post WW2 Radio Team that was set up with the thought of providing radio comms in teh event of a huge disaster.  They are still around and still have all their towers, members, and gear, but just aren't needed much anymore.  But they are there and have access to all the channels we use.  our radios have way too much in them.  Our primary 40ish channels allow us to communicated with everyone in the county on numerous command, operations, and tactical channels, including the Sheriffs Office (us), CalFire, County Fire, the PD, Forest Service, Yosemite NP, and the Hospital.  If we need to then we also have access to thousands of other channels if we work on mutual aid in another area.  Our county SO just updated the entire comms network (including new towers, dispatch, and radios) and we requested 30 brand new $1,500 potables!  And we got them.  A few of the team members have their own radios (like me) but we primarily rely on those real expensive ten-billion channel ones.


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## LucidResq

Mountain Res-Q said:


> And we got them.



Hate you. We have gotten more stuff from random private ambulance companies and fire depts than our SO.


----------



## James 61

I guess I should have clarified.  We also have a FCC license and VHF radios programmed with State SAR, our own team freq, Fire Comm etc...  The problem is, with the exception of the one radio programmed with a neighboring counties freqs, everything we have access to is line of sight.  (Oddly enough we have more lattitude in the use neighboring county's radio system than we do on the freqs in our own county.)

Where the amateur radios come in handy is we can talk to a team member back in town and tap out additional resources, clarify resources need etc...  We are can also provide a comms resource for the community in the event of a natural disaster.  In light of what happened in the aftermath of Katrina and how useful it had been it seamed like a worth while investment.

Case in point.  I was working a PR event up on the southernside of Mt St Helens in the Smith Creek area and was able to talk to a fellow team member all the way down in Vancouver WA.  About 35 miles away.  I was using a 5 watt handheld, bounched the signal through a dual band radio configured for cross band repeat, that was then sent to a conventional repeater and then the signal was received by the receiving radio.  Not bad considering the signal started with a little handheld.

Well enough about that. Each team needs to decide what works for them I was just tossing it out there for consideration.


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## Mountain Res-Q

LucidResq said:


> Hate you. We have gotten more stuff from random private ambulance companies and fire depts than our SO.



Sometimes we get lucky.  This only happened becasue someone screwed up.  In the process of the SO updating the entire radio system from low band to vhf they also decided to change out all the radios in the vehicles (including ous) and then replacing the old patrol King potables that barely work with new Kenwood $1,500 beauties.  Last year when the guy running this "little" upgrade was ordering new radios he walked into the SAR Coordinators Office (who was out on medical) and asked his temp replacement is SAR wanted any radios.  "Sure," he says skeptically, since we always want new things but rarely get anything.  "How Many?"  He pulls an unrealistic number out of his a**, "30."  "Excellant.  I am already getting 30 for patrol, so I will just double the order."  Now the deputy laughed it off as a "yah right, we will see those radios when pigs fly."  10 months latter, as the progect nears completion, the regualr coordinator (who has no idea 30 new ones were requested) goes to the radio folks and requests that when the old patrol Kings to augment our stash of 12 old Kenwoods.  The radio folks are confused as to why we would want these junkers when we have new ones on teh way.  Tuns out that all our 30 new radios were sitting in box waiting for the new radio network to go on line, along wiht a huge stash of chest harnesses, lapel mics, helmet mikes for ATV/Snowmo, and more battery packs than we need.  We have so many radios that the plan is to keep most of them in boxes until the old ones crap out.  So, ya... hate me.  On the other hand, we are unlikely to get anything new or cool for a good long time...


----------



## KiloSierra

Mountain Res-Q said:


> I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for, but I'll give you some more information specific to my team:
> 
> In order to be on our team you must meet these basic requirements:  U.S. resident, county citizen, in good physical shape for what you plan on taking part in (no testing and "good" is subjective - we had a 300+ pound 5'8" guy who wa an expert in Horses and ATV's, but was... well, fat.), Basic First Aid/CPR, Low Angle Rope Rescue, ICS 100/200, and a clean NCIC background check.  That may seem pretty basic, but since our team members all specialize in differnet areas, thats all we require for all people.  Example:  The year I joined, two others joined with me: One was a 55yo former rock climber with no background in rescue, but within that first year he took a ton of classes and certified as a Rope Rescue Technician and a Swiftwater Rescue Technician and was elected training officer for 2 years.  The other was a 35yo soccer mom whose only asset was that she was a horseback rider and had her own horse.  She is awesome and trained/volunteers for anything; ropes, helo, logistics.  Of corse we love when team members join with massive amounts of ropes, water, medical, helo, search, dive, etc... training/certification, but the biggest assest any volunteer can have is _the desire to _volunteer and help.  We have taken 18yo out of high school with no training and turned them into expert team leaders.  However, all newbies are on probation for one year and can be canned at any time (they must also meet certain mission/training hour requirements that first year).  I joined the team with just those basic requirements and my EMT (+ 4 years experience in EMS) and within the last ~4 years have trained and certified in Swiftwater Rescue, Search Management, ATV Rescue, Helos, Canines, and am now a Team Leader.
> 
> Now, our team is divided up into 10 sub-specialty-teams: Search, Technical (Ropes), Swiftwater/Flood, Dive, Nordic (Winter), OHV (ATV & Snowmobiles), Mounted, Air Ops, Medical, and Canine.  All team members are required to be a member of at least 2 (Search and one other).  If you meet that teams qualifications, then you can respond as a member of that team.  For instance, I am a member of the Medical, Swiftwater, Canine, OHV, Technical, and Search, and am a support member for Air Opsl.  I have little intereest in Horses, Dive, and Nordic.  That said, when the pager goes off, no matter what the call, we all respond.  It it is a Ropes call, and you are not on the Ropes Team, all that means is that we will not put you into the hot/warm zones.  You will assist in the cold zone in some fashion.  Since this thread comes from the Medical Srandpoint: In order to be on my Medical Team you have to have MFR or Higher (MFR, OEC, WFR, EMTB, WEMT, EMTP, RN, or MD).  But if you are not a part of the ropes team, air ops, mounted, OHV, nordic, you are walking your a** into the patient.  (I prefer the helo or ATV, myslef).  We are BLS equiped only, but as said before have barrowed ALS supplies/people from ER/Ambulance if need be.  We use any means to get to our goal asap.  The basic run down on how we are dipatched is as follows:
> 
> 911 gets called by either the victim or family/friends.  Call gets turfed to the Sheriffs Office (who once again is responsible for all SAR in the county).  The dispatcher takes all the info they can and calls the Deputy Liaision.  These are paid SAR trained Deputies that rotate on-call weeks.  Whatever deputy is on that week takes the call and determines if it is a SAR call.  This is because many calls should either be fire dept calls, or can be handled by other (quicker) means than paging out the team.  For instance:  If we get a cell phone call form the vic who broke a leg in the middle of the wilderness and we know right where he is, we can call the Air Ambulacne, who can be on scen in 30 minutes wiht a MICP and MICN.  Other times the call is handled by the deputy faster than mobilizing the team, or orest Serivice drives out to them, or it isn;t really an emergency that we can do anything for (well supplied, healthy group "stranded" on the otherside of a creek that will receed in 24 hours).  If the deputy recognizes this as a SAR team call, he tells dispatch to page us.  We all carry alpha-numeric pagers.  Pages read:  "All SAR memebrs (or a specific team) respond to the cache (or other place) for __________."  We usually respond to the SAR Cahce, where we store the team gear/vehicles, get briefed, and respond according to the IC's commands.  Now, this isn't always the case, which is why the deputies exist to detemine what course of action to take.  Two completely different examples:
> 
> 2 girls go over a waterfall about 1 hour from the closest town/ambulance.  This is an emergenct rescue call.  I just happened to be 25 minutes away and responded Code 2.5 in my POV becasue going to the Cache would have taken an extra hour.  I (along with 2 other team members) get on scene 1.5 hours before the rest of Swiftwater Team can.  We rescued one girl; the otehr died about 3 minutes before the 911 call went out.  Had I been in town, I would have gone to the cache, preped the vehciles, and waited for a few others to show before we responded.  FYI, a helo, the SAR Swiftwater Unit, 2 SAR trucks, 2 deputies, Forest Service, and 1 Fire Unit all responded, but we were the only ones equiped to perform Swiftwater Rescue.
> 
> 60 year old female outdoor enthusiast walks away from camp to go meditate.  BERKLEY LIBERAL!  Seriously, the camp was run by UC Berkley.  She fails to show for dinner, so at 2000 hours, the camp calls the SO.  Hypotheticly, the deputy could have paged the team, and by the time we mobilized and got on scne it would have been midnight or latter (perhaps as late as 0200 hours).  The area is not extreme, 4000 elevation, summer cool weather, she is an experiened adult outdoors person, no medical known medical issues, etc...  Searching at night in teh conditions that area was in would have been futile, exhausting for the team who would have had to do it all nigh and day.  The page went out to mobilize teh following morning at the Cache at 0600.  We all got sleep, we had the time to secure additional resources (Mutual Aid Team, outside ATV's, outside dogs, and a helo), the team got briefed properly, we formulated a plan, and conducted a great search that resulted in a rescue.
> 
> The big thing you have to realize is that we are all volunteers who love what we do and cannot be experts in everything.  We all have our own talents.  Any prior training, certification, and experience you have is desirable.  But every team has it's own requirements based on their area.  i.e our neighbor to the south, Yosemite SAR requires all team members to be certified in Swiftwater and High Angle Ropes.
> 
> I know I ramble, but does any of that help?  If not, keep asking for more specifics.  B)



Thank you! Its so few and far between to find a real and effective response!


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## yowzer

KiloSierra said:


> Thank you! Its so few and far between to find a real and effective response!



You know you're replying to a 5 year old thread, right? :unsure:


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