# Thank GOD I'm alive!



## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm still a baby student EMT-B, but I was thinking that alot of you probably get this quite alot.

I was just talking to a guy at Starbucks. He saw my books and said, "Oh, you're studying to be a EMT" and then proceed to tell me how he dropped "dead" on the basketball court at 24 hour fitness and the paramedics brought him back in the ambulance. He was in a coma for three days, but was sitting here talking to me. I know just enough to know I don't know jack, but from what I've been learning so for, from what he described to me, he seems incredibly lucky.

But, what I found irritating....after his long story about all the things that came together.....the luck of having a AED available, people at the gym that had just taken a CPR class to begin compressions and respirations immediately, the paramedics who arrived promptly and did everything they were trained to do, the doctors and hospital staff that went to school for years and years.....this guy at the end of his story says.....

"Thank God for his grace. It must not have been time for me to go"

Oh boy did I almost bite my tongue in half.


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## Veneficus (Feb 23, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> I'm still a baby student EMT-B, but I was thinking that alot of you probably get this quite alot.
> 
> I was just talking to a guy at Starbucks. He saw my books and said, "Oh, you're studying to be a EMT" and then proceed to tell me how he dropped "dead" on the basketball court at 24 hour fitness and the paramedics brought him back in the ambulance. He was in a coma for three days, but was sitting here talking to me. I know just enough to know I don't know jack, but from what I've been learning so for, from what he described to me, he seems incredibly lucky.
> 
> ...



Before they ask god for a miracle, they ask for my help


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 23, 2012)

Regardless of what anybody in medicine or EMS tries to do to prevent it, when God says you're time is up it's the end of the discussion.

So what was so wrong about the guy making the comment that made you want to bite your tongue in half?


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 23, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> Regardless of what anybody in medicine or EMS tries to do to prevent it, when God says you're time is up it's the end of the discussion.
> 
> So what was so wrong about the guy making the comment that made you want to bite your tongue in half?



Some people don't believe in god. God wasn't down there doing compressions to get him back.

Im not a fan when people say "thank god you got here in time". God didn't make me do anything. I chose what to do and what not to do. I wanted to be an EMT. God didn't make me become one.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

Let me tell you something, I'm far from a religious man, but when your number is up, your number is up and there is nothing you're going to do to save them.  That gentleman was lucky to be in a circumstance where he was able to be helped because as your career progresses you will inevitably respond to codes where your downtime is too excessive to resuscitate an actual viable form of humanity and despite your bag of tricks, they will die anyway.  And I love medics who call it a "code save" even though the person they "saved" is laid up in a nursing home like a vegetable with foot drop.

In any case, nothing to bite your tongue about.  Please don't be one of those high horsing self-righteous medics that seem to be running around everywhere nowadays.  Please. We don't hold the key to life and death, we just help out when we can.  And "thank GOD" can mean many things.  he could've been thanking god for putting capable staff there to help him when he needed it.  If you're looking for thank you's and appreciation you're probably in the wrong business.  You'll learn that when something goes wrong in the field then its all your fault and when the outcome is good, well then the hospital did a great job., lol.


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## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> Regardless of what anybody in medicine or EMS tries to do to prevent it, when God says you're time is up it's the end of the discussion.
> 
> So what was so wrong about the guy making the comment that made you want to bite your tongue in half?



I don't believe in god, but if I did I wouldn't believe that he spares or takes people when it's "their time". That doesn't make any sense to me and seems narcissistic. 

That's kind of the short form.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or bust on beliefs. This is just where I'm coming from. I'm getting better.....really. I can just smile and let people be.....usually.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> I don't believe in god, but if I did I wouldn't believe that he spares or takes people when it's "their time". That doesn't make any sense to me and seems narcissistic.



Irony defined.


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 23, 2012)

firefite said:


> Some people don't believe in god. God wasn't down there doing compressions to get him back.
> 
> Im not a fan when people say "thank god you got here in time". God didn't make me do anything. I chose what to do and what not to do. I wanted to be an EMT. God didn't make me become one.





Cindigo said:


> I don't believe in god, but if I did I wouldn't believe that he spares or takes people when it's "their time". That doesn't make any sense to me and seems narcissistic.
> 
> That's kind of the short form.
> 
> I'm not trying to start a flame war or bust on beliefs. This is just where I'm coming from. I'm getting better.....really. I can just smile and let people be.....usually.



This is what I was trying to say, and thanks to TatuICU for expressing it:


TatuICU said:


> Let me tell you something, I'm far from a religious man, but when your number is up, your number is up and there is nothing you're going to do to save them.  That gentleman was lucky to be in a circumstance where he was able to be helped because as your career progresses you will inevitably respond to codes where your downtime is too excessive to resuscitate an actual viable form of humanity and despite your bag of tricks, they will die anyway.  And I love medics who call it a "code save" even though the person they "saved" is laid up in a nursing home like a vegetable with foot drop.
> 
> In any case, nothing to bite your tongue about.  Please don't be one of those high horsing self-righteous medics that seem to be running around everywhere nowadays.  Please. We don't hold the key to life and death, we just help out when we can.  And "thank GOD" can mean many things.  he could've been thanking god for putting capable staff there to help him when he needed it.  If you're looking for thank you's and appreciation you're probably in the wrong business.  You'll learn that when something goes wrong in the field then its all your fault and when the outcome is good, well then the hospital did a great job., lol.


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## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> Let me tell you something, I'm far from a religious man, but when your number is up, your number is up and there is nothing you're going to do to save them.  That gentleman was lucky to be in a circumstance where he was able to be helped because as your career progresses you will inevitably respond to codes where your downtime is too excessive to resuscitate an actual viable form of humanity and despite your bag of tricks, they will die anyway.  And I love medics who call it a "code save" even though the person they "saved" is laid up in a nursing home like a vegetable with foot drop.
> 
> In any case, nothing to bite your tongue about.  Please don't be one of those high horsing self-righteous medics that seem to be running around everywhere nowadays.  Please. We don't hold the key to life and death, we just help out when we can.  And "thank GOD" can mean many things.  he could've been thanking god for putting capable staff there to help him when he needed it.  If you're looking for thank you's and appreciation you're probably in the wrong business.  You'll learn that when something goes wrong in the field then its all your fault and when the outcome is good, well then the hospital did a great job., lol.



It's a personal problem I have with religion......not looking for thank you's and appreciation.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> It's a personal problem I have with religion......not looking for thank you's and appreciation.



But you think that others should conform to how you feel and what you think?  I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Not trying to be rude at all, I just really don't understand.  Religion has and always will be the opium of the masses and that's not going to change anytime soon.  Why? Because people are scared of two things above all else: being alone and dying. "God" gives them a way out of being scared of them. So just think, this guy has a bona-fide Sunday school story about how God saved him to reinforce his beliefs and make his life a little more manageable.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 23, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> It's a personal problem I have with religion......not looking for thank you's and appreciation.



Same. I've had a couple times where my tongue slipped when someone said "thank god you are here". When I don't catch myself I will respond with "God has nothing to do with it".


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## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> Irony defined.



I'm not really sure what you're getting at? That I'm narcissistic because I don't believe in a magic guy that flies around the skies granting wishes or smoting people? I'm not saying that I know the answers, but I'm fairly confident in saying, that one has more than a few holes in it.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

firefite said:


> Same. I've had a couple times where my tongue slipped when someone said "thank god you are here". When I don't catch myself I will respond with "God has nothing to do with it".



Ah hell firefite, that's just a colloquial phrase nowadays.  I always felt "Thank dispatch you're here" was far more apropos


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 23, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> Ah hell firefite, that's just a colloquial phrase nowadays.  I always felt "Thank dispatch you're here" was far more apropos



Haha. I know it's a common phrase for alot of people. But we still run into really religious people who use it as much more then a phrase. 

I think it should be "Thank Ford E-Series you are here" haha


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Feb 23, 2012)

*re*

As an atheist I find this whole thread offensive.........  <_<

On a more serious note though.  I truly do not believe in a higher power and think at some point they will find the flaw in the 95% of humans brains on earth that make them believe in one.  But as much as I detest the thought of one, the longer I am in medicine the more I realize people with a faith of any kind tend to do better with acceptance.

Lol, better explain that one a bit more.  As zealots are not big on acceptance of others.  By saying that I mean they tend to accept that things have happened to them or they have become sick and don't tend to dwell on the negative as long as non believers I have known who have become ill.  As the later type tended to become bitter.


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## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> But you think that others should conform to how you feel and what you think?  I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Not trying to be rude at all, I just really don't understand.  Religion has and always will be the opium of the masses and that's not going to change anytime soon.  Why? Because people are scared of two things above all else: being alone and dying. "God" gives them a way out of being scared of them. So just think, this guy has a bona-fide Sunday school story about how God saved him to reinforce his beliefs and make his life a little more manageable.



Oh okay, I see what your saying. It just makes me sad. I'm getting better....really. Yes, I will admit I would like everyone to conform to what I feel and think. Personally, that would be great. Is that going to happen....of course not. I'm working on letting people be and doing what they need to do to get through this life that we're all trying to get through. I know that it's not going to change, people need the opium and I have to find my own tribe, but when someone busts out a "thank god" it makes me feel immediately less connected to them. Again....a personal thing......working on it.


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## Veneficus (Feb 23, 2012)

I thought dispatch was god,

You are just sitting there minding your own business when a disembodied voice tells you where to go and without question or thought, you stop whatever you are doing and follow the instructions.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> I'm not really sure what you're getting at? That I'm narcissistic because I don't believe in a magic guy that flies around the skies granting wishes or smoting people? I'm not saying that I know the answers, but I'm fairly confident in saying, that one has more than a few holes in it.



Religion is not the topic at hand.  Your attitude toward others feelings is.  Again, religion does not affect this discussion in the slightest.  He may as well have said "Thank the meter reader!" Doesn't matter.  Narcissism when applied psychoanalytically to a group carries a connotation of elitism with it.  I was merely pointing out that chastising "god" for being a narcissist while in the same paragraph having your post betraying an air of disgust with regard to another persons belief (presumably because you believe yourself to be smarter or at least a better critical thinker than this gentleman) due to your own feelings is a tad......ironic.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

Corky said:


> As an atheist I find this whole thread offensive.........  <_<
> 
> On a more serious note though.  I truly do not believe in a higher power and think at some point they will find the flaw in the 95% of humans brains on earth that make them believe in one.  But as much as I detest the thought of one, the longer I am in medicine the more I realize people with a faith of any kind tend to do better with acceptance.



The flaw is very simple.  Fear. We are afraid of death and afraid of being alone.  Everyone is. Some people can just come to terms with their own mortality and give themselves over to the human experience better than others.  Religion is a coping mechanism, no more, no less.


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## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

Also....not that this changes anything.....or maybe it does.....I've been sitting across from this guy for about two hours now, and he's full on "Hidely Howdely Doodely" Ned Flanders.


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## Cindigo (Feb 23, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> Religion is not the topic at hand.  Your attitude toward others feelings is.  Again, religion does not affect this discussion in the slightest.  He may as well have said "Thank the meter reader!" Doesn't matter.  Narcissism when applied psychoanalytically to a group carries a connotation of elitism with it.  I was merely pointing out that chastising "god" for being a narcissist while in the same paragraph having your post betraying an air of disgust with regard to another persons belief (presumably because you believe yourself to be smarter or at least a better critical thinker than this gentleman) due to your own feelings is a tad......ironic.



Correct. I said I was working my attitude of letting people be.

I wasn't chastising god for being a narcissist, I was chastising people who think that "god" cares what they do.

Also, please stop being interesting.....I'm trying to study.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> Also....not that this changes anything.....or maybe it does.....I've been sitting across from this guy for about two hours now, and he's full on "Hidely Howdely Doodely" Ned Flanders.



Yes, that does change things.  Check and see if he's left handed too and if so, I think you know what needs to be done.......


Machete + Blowtorch


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## mycrofft (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't know quite what to say...maybe something about hubris?

Geez......


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## BandageBrigade (Feb 23, 2012)

I actually do find it quite offensive that my individual beliefs are being referred to as  a 'flaw' or 'coping mechanism'. Who are we to judge anyone especially our patients for their beliefs? Do I fault you for not believing? No. So please do not insult me for mine.


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## Sasha (Feb 23, 2012)

As an atheist I find it really distasteful when other atheists (i call them angry atheists) slam and insult other religions by insinuating there is something wrong or bad about them. 

People ask me to pray, I roll with it. Bow my head, close my eyes and be respectful. 

People say "god bless you" or tell me they will pray for my safety or that I succeed in my goals, I tell them thank you, that is very kind. 

Its what gives them comfort and makes them feel better. Who am I to disagree with that? Who am I to tell them they're wrong or silly? I would be offended if they told me I'm wrong or silly, so why do it to them?

Emergency brings out the religion in people. Get used to it.


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## TatuICU (Feb 23, 2012)

BandageBrigade said:


> I actually do find it quite offensive that my individual beliefs are being referred to as  a 'flaw' or 'coping mechanism'. Who are we to judge anyone especially our patients for their beliefs? Do I fault you for not believing? No. So please do not insult me for mine.



I sincerely meant no offense by using the word "flaw" to describe it.  Perhaps I should've been more specific to what I was referencing.  I meant it more in the sense that emotionally human beings have a glaring design flaw in that fear can drive a rational, logical mind to think, believe, and do irrational and illogical things. I believe many emotions such as jealousy, etc can produce the same effects.  Faith is faith and is by its very nature not predicated upon rational thought or logic.  

I should've had stated that I was merely hypothesizing that the need for deities dating back to polytheistic religions of ancient Greece to the current popular belief in a Jesus or a God, stem from humanity's innate fear of death and the unknown that we are all subject to. I meant the "flaw" resides in all of us and we all deal with it in different ways, some with religion.  And if you'll look at my posts I mention that there is nothing at all wrong with the gentleman in the story giving thanks to what he feels allowed his life to be saved.  

Again, no offense was intended.


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## Cindigo (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> As an atheist I find it really distasteful when other atheists (i call them angry atheists) slam and insult other religions by insinuating there is something wrong or bad about them.



I'm not insinuating, and atheism isn't a religion.

It's easy to say that religion isn't harmful and what's the big deal when you live in the first world and going to church means a lovely community with good caring people. I'm not a moron, I get the appeal.



> Its what gives them comfort and makes them feel better. Who am I to disagree with that? Who am I to tell them they're wrong or silly? I would be offended if they told me I'm wrong or silly, so why do it to them?



I would not be offended if someone told me I was wrong or silly and had some pretty powerful evidence to back it up or at least give me strong pause to rethink my position. I would probably feel bruised and sheepish, but ultimately, that person would be doing me a favor. 

If your best friend had cancer and was going to cure it homeopathically because they didn't believe in Chemo....what's the harm? Who are you to disagree. You believe one thing. They believe another. Who are you to say that a magic vial of water isn't as powerful as a cancer drug? Who gave you the audacity to think that you're right? 



> Emergency brings out the religion in people. Get used to it.



Everything brings out the religion in people. This is not some new thing that I've just encountered. It's not like I said anything to the guy. It's not like I wasn't polite. I found parts of his story interesting and parts of it not. I listened to him, made conversation and drank some coffee.


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## Anjel (Feb 24, 2012)

Its non of your business what people believe or how the choose to cope with things.

They wanna believe the llama on the great farm in the sky saved them, then ok. 

I am a christian. When people say thank whatever you are here. I dont bite my tongue and wanna tell them to thank GOD. 

Believe what you want. But dont :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: that Christians cram their religion down your throat when you want to confront every christian you come across and tell them how wrong they are for expressing what gives them comfort and a peice of mind. I hope you have enough sense in the future to keep biting your tongue.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 24, 2012)

Cindigo,

You and your patients would be better served if you learned right now none of this is really about you.

Nobody gives two flips about your "personal problems with religion" career wise. It's rather self-centered to believe they do.

I'm more agnostic than anything, but playing the "I'm an atheist and I'm better than you" card to a patient is weak sauce sir.


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## Cindigo (Feb 24, 2012)

Anjel1030 said:


> Believe what you want. But dont :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: that Christians cram their religion down your throat when you want to confront every christian you come across and tell them how wrong they are for expressing what gives them comfort and a peice of mind. I hope you have enough sense in the future to keep biting your tongue.



I don't want confront every Christian I come across and tell them how wrong they are. There's a whole bunch of other religions I want to tell also. 

I'm non denominational.


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## Cindigo (Feb 24, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> Cindigo,
> 
> You and your patients would be better served if you learned right now none of this is really about you.
> 
> ...



I just thought it was a good story. My bad. It wasn't my patient. It was just some guy at a Starbucks telling me a story.


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## Sasha (Feb 24, 2012)

Honestly people like you are who gives atheism and agnosticism a bad name and I have more respect to those with a strong faith than I have for people like you.


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## Aidey (Feb 24, 2012)

Lets change the scenario a bit. 

What if the person had said "Thank the heroes in the fire department I'm alive!" and the OP knows that the FD in the area is BLS only and doesn't transport. The OP smiles, nods, walks away and rolls his eyes. 

Not really THAT big of a deal.


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## Aidey (Feb 24, 2012)

To expand on what I said now that I'm awake, I don't think it is that out of line to think credit should be due elsewhere. Many people have complained about the FD getting all the credit. Heck, this is a huge source of irritation for most police officers I know. Some newsworthy thing happens and the FD gets all the attention and PD is mentioned as a side note, if at all. We had a big fire here in an apartment building, and most of the PD units beat the FD on scene and they evacuated/rescued more people than the FD did. The only mentions of them in 4-5 paragraph news article was "the police department and ambulance also responded with multiple units". 

Just because the person gave credit to god instead of the random guy in the gym with the AED, the FD or the flying spaghetti monster doesn't make this any different than any of the other times people have complained about credit being misplaced.


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## Martyn (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> As an atheist I find it really distasteful when other atheists (i call them angry atheists) slam and insult other religions by insinuating there is something wrong or bad about them.
> 
> People ask me to pray, I roll with it. Bow my head, close my eyes and be respectful.
> 
> ...


 
Well said Sasha...you will find all types of religions and beliefs when in the field, as has been said, take it on the chin. I am a firm beleiver of NOT telling people they are right or wrong, just go with the flow and agree with them then move on to the next call. Good luck with your studying.


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## Sasha (Feb 24, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> I'm not insinuating, and atheism isn't a religion.
> 
> It's easy to say that religion isn't harmful and what's the big deal when you live in the first world and going to church means a lovely community with good caring people. I'm not a moron, I get the appeal.
> 
> ...



Where is your evidence that God does NOT exist? You have evidence of evolution, yes, and disprove the bible but where is your evidence that there isn't a superpowerful omnipresent being in the sky who is guiding evolution or coordinating everything?

So you throwing scientific evidence in their face only proves evolution but does not disprove the existence of God. So again, how do you know it wasn't God? You don't. You take a chance, you believe one thing, and you are either right or wrong when you die. 

I'm an atheist. I will reiterate that. But I am not going to be so smug to think that there is no chance I'm wrong, because again, no one has disproven the existence of a God. Therefore I will be happy to let others believe as they will without calling them flawed or insinuating they're stupid. 

And homeopathic methods exist because some have gotten results. Not my cup of tea, honestly. But if someone doesn't believe in chemotherapy and radiation, its not going to be as effective. The human mind is a beautiful thing. If you believe something won't work, it probably won't.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Just food for thought here...to say Where is your evidence to prove something DOES NOT exist is flawed logic.

The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim that something exists, never on the person who says NO it does NOT exist.

The above is why science is beautiful. We never take anything on faith or feel good emotions. If someone makes a claim, we will scrutinize and shred every little aspect of it, retest it to ensure same results, and then continue to reevaluate over the years looking for changes or to see if it holds up to original standards. I love this process--this is why medicine is improving, this is why old practices are rapidly falling to the wayside. If we expect and demand this type of testing/scrutiny for almost every thing in our life, then why does religion think it deserves a free pass from the same?

But again to reiterate...no one should ever have to produce proof on non existence of something.

Otherwise, who are you to say Leprechauns and unicorns do not exist. Show me the proof they do not exist. You can't. Therefore, they do. See? Doesn't exactly gel does it?

All those years with the monsters under my bed and in my closet...who knew? I was right!


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## TatuICU (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> Where is your evidence that God does NOT exist? You have evidence of evolution, yes, and disprove the bible but where is your evidence that there isn't a superpowerful omnipresent being in the sky who is guiding evolution or coordinating everything?
> 
> So you throwing scientific evidence in their face only proves evolution but does not disprove the existence of God. So again, how do you know it wasn't God? You don't. You take a chance, you believe one thing, and you are either right or wrong when you die.
> 
> ...



Flawed logic, there is no reason to prove something does not exist.  The onus of proof is on the person making the claim of existence.  As far as homeopathic medicine, the two are much different.  There is some empirical evidence that some forms of homeopathic medicine works as opposed to just anecdotal "evidence" that a deity exists.


****nevermind, person above me beat me to it


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## Sasha (Feb 24, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> Flawed logic, there is no reason to prove something does not exist.  The onus of proof is on the person making the claim of existence.  As far as homeopathic medicine, the two are much different.  There is some empirical evidence that some forms of homeopathic medicine works as opposed to just anecdotal "evidence" that a deity exists.
> 
> 
> ****nevermind, person above me beat me to it



He is the one who brought up homeopathic medicine.

It doesn't matter if it's "flawed" logic. This isn't a court of law so there is no burden of proof, we are talking about people's feelings and faith. 

So I stand by what I said.


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## Veneficus (Feb 24, 2012)

akflightmedic said:


> unicorns do not exist.



That would probably explain why I never catch the ones I chase 



akflightmedic said:


> All those years with the monsters under my bed and in my closet...who knew? I was right!



You're walking the line there boss. That is dangerously close to saying Santa, the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny don't exist


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## TatuICU (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> He is the one who brought up homeopathic medicine.
> 
> It doesn't matter if it's "flawed" logic. This isn't a court of law so there is no burden of proof, we are talking about people's feelings and faith.
> 
> So I stand by what I said.



Logic is applied to courts of law for logic's sake.  Not the other way around. So I'm not sure what your point is.  And burdens of proof apply to all scientific realms. "Faith" is a way for some to explain away scientific questions and is therefor subject to the same evidentiary scrutiny as any other hypothesis, hence the ongoing argument between militant theists and militant athiests.  I am neither.  My point was made in this thread quite some time ago. The rest of this has gone off the rails. Again, as I said before, this thread has ZERO to do with religion.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> He is the one who brought up homeopathic medicine.
> 
> It doesn't matter if it's "flawed" logic. This isn't a court of law so there is no burden of proof, we are talking about people's feelings and faith.
> 
> So I stand by what I said.



Ok, so unicorns exist, Santa exists, demons exist, little green men, elves, dragons...on and on it goes...all because you cannot prove they don't...I like where this is going as it opens endless possibilities.

The distinct difference between believers and scientists/non believers is the latter group loves being challenged. Make me prove what I say is right--I love being proven wrong as it makes me work harder, I learn something and it means I am using my brain filled with logic and reason. I question everything...even stuff that is already proven and accepted I still had to question it until I grasped it. Some topics are left untouched (quantum anything-except Quantum Leap-great series) but the majority of things within my average life and relevant to me--those will be questioned and challenged especially when it impacts personal choices or activities.

If you challenge a believer, it is deemed rude or unacceptable. Why? Why do they get a free pass on fairy tales? See the issue? Especially when they cannot prove any of their claims, yet all around them there is an abundance of evidence for most things in life.

So while your position may stand Sasha (yes been a while since I riled you up), it is greatly flawed unless you can explain to me why all the other things I listed do not exist either.


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## Aidey (Feb 24, 2012)

akflightmedic said:


> So while your position may stand Sasha (yes been a while since I riled you up), it is greatly flawed unless you can explain to me why all the other things I listed do not exist either.



And explain why it is OK to tell people those things don't exist but not tell people that you don't think god exists.


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## Vetitas86 (Feb 24, 2012)

From a purely philosophical standpoint...

The existence of God can only be proven by one thing. Death. Anything else can be explained by malfunctions in the brain, etc. 

So pulling either the religion or atheism card is a fallacy, as is calling atheism a religion. By definition, its the lack thereof.

While hardly a bible thumper, I do believe in a higher power. Whether or not it (sex-based ideals taken aside) it intervenes is a purely personal belief. Sure, others may not respect you for being an atheist, Christian, Muslim, or Witch Doctor. Doesn't mean you can't be the better person and accept their beliefs as their own, as long as it doesn't endanger them or others (Whether religion can be seen as mentally/emotionally damaging is a different conversation entirely).

Point being, no, I'm not EMS yet. But I've worked in health care. Whatever gets people through the crap in their lives and may possibly give them the strength to live through whatever problem there is - don't knock it. Keeping them alive is half your job, half theirs. If they give up, then there's no saving them, not even from themselves.

And, as an aside, look at it this way...regardless of what you personally believe, there's a chance of you being wrong. And as far as the existence of God goes, it's 50/50. So that being said, people who lean too far one way or the other irk me. Respecting others shouldn't be a choice. Religion is. Treat it that way.


----------



## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Vetitas86 said:


> And, as an aside, look at it this way...regardless of what you personally believe, there's a chance of you being wrong. And as far as the existence of God goes, it's 50/50. So that being said, people who lean too far one way or the other irk me. Respecting others shouldn't be a choice. Religion is. Treat it that way.



Great response but if you are going to invoke Pascal's Wager (the 50/50 comment) then you have to give consideration to the 1000s of other gods which predate the Christian god and you also invalidate all the gods currently ruling beside the Christian god on this earth.

So it is not 50/50, it is not that simple. And if you are implying what's the harm in believing (please read up on Pascal) then I pose this question...if you do believe...how do you know you chose the right one (other than the fact of believing whatever is popular in your family/neighborhood)?


----------



## Vetitas86 (Feb 24, 2012)

Yeah, yeah. Technically speaking, Pascal's Wager is a bit more difficult than that. Drastic oversimplification, but I feel it works for the atheism vs. belief situation. Even if it ain't by the textbooks 

I do believe. Though my personal beliefs are more in line with Deism than traditional Christianity per se. I just believe that everything comes from something. Now as to where God came from...different debate. 

Do I know with certainty that its the "right" way? No. But it works for me. That's why my thing is respect for other peoples' beliefs. Religion as such is a bit of a guessing game.


----------



## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2012)

Until you can tell me how the universe started, you cannot say God, or a god, does or does not exist with any level of certainty.   You literally have as much proof as the other person.


The very fact that something LITERALLY came from nothing, is in itself amazing, and goes against every single law that science states must be followed.  Even if there is no higher being involved, literally one day there was NOTHING, no matter at all, and the next, there was.   If there is no God, this very fact alone is amazing, and we'll probably never find out how matter came to exist.  





akflightmedic said:


> you also invalidate all the gods currently ruling beside the Christian god on this earth.



To be fair, the Crhistian God, Jewish god and Muslin god are all in essence the same being.  The biggest difference is how they view Jesus.


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## Anjel (Feb 24, 2012)

I just don't see why people can't believe what they want. 

Don't agree. That's ok. You can believe what you want, as long as you don't tell me I am wrong, and I won't tell you that you are wrong.

If someone wants to believe in unicorns that so be it.


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## VCEMT (Feb 24, 2012)

I like to worship false idols. Sometimes myself. Anyone been to Japan? They have nice shrines that people pray to for fertility and have festivals. 

So, back to the guy at Starbucks. 

What if he said Allah? Creator? Odin? Zeus? Osiris? Marduk? Adad? Enlil? Ishtar? Hemsut? Nefertem? Sukuna-Biku Na? Spider-Man? Superman? Obama? Bush? Reagan? Che? Paul McCartney? Ronald McDonald? Elvis? Ozzy? Metallica? The Knights of St. John? The Knights of Hospitaller? 

Get over yourself.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Linuss said:


> To be fair, the Crhistian God, Jewish god and Muslin god are all in essence the same being.  The biggest difference is how they view Jesus.



And to be fair, you missed out on literally dozens if not 100s of other gods currently in existence.

I am well aware of the three main you listed, however if you think their Jesus view is the biggest difference, you might want to head over to the Theology section of your local library and do some reading. 

It is a difference but not "the biggest" as that implies almost everything else is the same or similar aside from that fact. While they do share a lot of common ground...it just is not that simple.


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## Aidey (Feb 24, 2012)

Am I the only one who isn't seeing this as being about religion? We work a thankless job, and most of the time are looked over for our contributions. Especially if you work for a private company. The OP gets a little irked because someone expounds on how god saved their life and ignores all the people physically involved and suddenly there is a holy war going on.


Edit - One of the more religious calls I was on involved a gaggle of nuns. As we were packing the pt up they split into 2 groups. One was praying for the pt, and the other was praying for my partner and I. I thought it was pretty cool that they recognized the human element in the whole equation. If even they were asking god to guide my hands or whatever it was.


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## Sasha (Feb 24, 2012)

Anjel1030 said:


> I just don't see why people can't believe what they want.
> 
> Don't agree. That's ok. You can believe what you want, as long as you don't tell me I am wrong, and I won't tell you that you are wrong.
> 
> If someone wants to believe in unicorns that so be it.



Exactly. If you believe passionately in unicorns and it brings you a feeling of inner peace... Go for it. 

I don't. I don't care what you believe in, as long as you're respectful.

The minute someone tries to convert me, or disrespect my views the nicey nice gloves come off, though.


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok everyone needs a nap. "gets out pillows and blankets"

OP I see where you're coming from. I feel the same way when someone tells me all about the massive effort they put into having a kid through IVF. They talk about the waiting the expense the paperwork ect. Then they always say something along the lines of "but god wanted us to have this baby (babies)" and I always think. No obviously god didn't want you to have a baby or he wouldn't have made you infertile to begin with, but I always say it on the inside and on the outside I just say "yup it's a real miracle isn't it. Faith is faith. It doesn't matter if it's the faith you have in science or god or a lucky rabbits foot, if it gets you through the day and the rough times then have at it.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> Exactly. If you believe passionately in unicorns and it brings you a feeling of inner peace... Go for it.
> 
> I don't. I don't care what you believe in, as long as you're respectful.
> 
> The minute someone tries to convert me, or disrespect my views the nicey nice gloves come off, though.



Ahhh but what if my unicorn group grows and the passion for the horny one spreads? What if my group gets so large we start building phallic temples on every corner? What if our deity starts making requests that impact YOUR life...a non-horned one?

What if that group becomes so powerful and raises so much money and has so much influence that they are able to influence laws regulating your non horny life? Yet while doing all of this, they are respectful, they just want to regulate your life and activities-respectfully.


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## Sasha (Feb 24, 2012)

I said I was all for people believing what they want. 

I'm also for separation of church and state, be it Christian church or unicorn church. 

Other than that, I have no problem with horny.


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## Veneficus (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> I said I was all for people believing what they want.
> 
> I'm also for separation of church and state, be it Christian church or unicorn church.
> 
> Other than that, I have no problem with horny.



Evidentally, my attempts at humor to relieve the tension here have failed.

All religion, any religion, as something that identifies members as part of a select group of morally righteous cannot possibly remain seperate from the laws of the state.

Because it is people who make law. people who fund candidates. People who vote for said candidates.

Just as it is false that there is a seperation of powers in branches of government. They are not seperate powers, simply limited in their ability to apply each.

You are right, it doesn't matter the religion at all. If my members are right, by default, everyone else is wrong. 

I better not get started on extrinsic vs. intrinsic religion.


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## Fish (Feb 24, 2012)

Cindigo said:


> I'm still a baby student EMT-B, but I was thinking that alot of you probably get this quite alot.
> 
> I was just talking to a guy at Starbucks. He saw my books and said, "Oh, you're studying to be a EMT" and then proceed to tell me how he dropped "dead" on the basketball court at 24 hour fitness and the paramedics brought him back in the ambulance. He was in a coma for three days, but was sitting here talking to me. I know just enough to know I don't know jack, but from what I've been learning so for, from what he described to me, he seems incredibly lucky.
> 
> ...



GOod thing you bit your tounge, if you would have done anything else then you would have been in for it with this patient. He believes in god, and believes even all the medical advances in the world cannot trump gods will.


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## Fish (Feb 24, 2012)

firefite said:


> Some people don't believe in god. God wasn't down there doing compressions to get him back.
> 
> Im not a fan when people say "thank god you got here in time". God didn't make me do anything. I chose what to do and what not to do. I wanted to be an EMT. God didn't make me become one.



That you know of


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## mycrofft (Feb 24, 2012)

*Emo has it pegged*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2y_kI_-x1Q


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## TatuICU (Feb 24, 2012)

I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 24, 2012)

This one is entertaining. 

I have nothing to add to this topic besides: You do your thing, I'll do mine. I'll respect you and your beliefs if you respect mine.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Feb 24, 2012)

*re*



TatuICU said:


> I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself



Lol we really need like buttons on here!  My partner is wondering why im sitting here laughing my arse off.


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## mycrofft (Feb 24, 2012)

ME2!:rofl:


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## medic417 (Feb 24, 2012)

I hate the myth known as gravity.  It must be fake because I have never seen it.:huh:


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2012)

akflightmedic said:


> I am well aware of the three main you listed, however if you think their Jesus view is the biggest difference, you might want to head over to the Theology section of your local library and do some reading.



Christianity, Judaism and Islam are Abrhamic religions, all 3 hold Abraham as a somewhat important figure in their history. Christinaity believes Jesus is a decedent of Abraham while Islam views Mohammed as a decedent of Abraham. and then Jews Jacob.

Christians believe Jesus was the son, Muslims believe he was a messenger, and Jews think he was a false messenger.  Truly, that is the single biggest and most notred difference between the 3.  (Sunni and Shiite notwithstanding, Trinity notwithstanding).


Infact, the Qu'ran even goes so far as to say that Allah, Yaweh, and God are the same diety, and that Muslims, Jews and Chritians all believe in the same singular God.




Call it what you want, but the 3 main religions (considering they consists of 54% of the worlds religions) all believe in the same idea of the same single god with a monothestic view, and all 3 have many of the same figures, places, and events transcribed throughout their holy books, sharing many of the same ideas with eachother.  




These 3 religions share much more in common than not only people know, but the extremist are willing to accept.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Feb 24, 2012)

Linuss said:


> Christianity, Judaism and Islam are Abrhamic religions, all 3 hold Abraham as a somewhat important figure in their history. Christinaity believes Jesus is a decedent of Abraham while Islam views Mohammed as a decedent of Abraham. and then Jews Jacob.
> 
> *Christians believe Jesus was the son*, Muslims believe he was a messenger, and Jews think he was a false messenger.  Truly, that is the single biggest and most notred difference between the 3.  (Sunni and Shiite notwithstanding, Trinity notwithstanding).
> 
> ...




And some of us think he was just a crappy carpenter that got strung up for a shoddy building job.......

On a more serious note though.  How do people of faith that believe in Jesus and the crucifixion account for it ever happening?  Seeing as how this happened during the Roman times and the Romans were the most meticulous record keepers in history and have records of almost EVERYTHING that happened during their reign, but there is no record of crucifixion ever being used.... ever.....

Just curious


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## Veneficus (Feb 24, 2012)

Corky said:


> but there is no record of crucifixion ever being used.... ever.....
> 
> Just curious



Maybe it is listed under the records of enhanced interrogation techniques?

:unsure:


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## Sublime (Feb 24, 2012)

Sasha said:


> As an atheist I find it really distasteful when other atheists (i call them angry atheists) slam and insult other religions by insinuating there is something wrong or bad about them.
> 
> People ask me to pray, I roll with it. Bow my head, close my eyes and be respectful.
> 
> ...



I feel the same way. If you think about it, religious people have something we will never have, they have the comfort of believing they're going somewhere better when they rdie. What do we have? 

I honestly wish my brain would let me be a religious person, but I just can't force myself to believe something I don't think is true. 

And if you're not willing to be accepting of other peoples beliefs then you should probably reconsider your career choice. How are you helping someone by downgrading their beliefs or making douche bag comments like "god has nothing to do with this", especially when they are counting on you to help them out. So what if god gets more recognition then you for their medical outcomes, is your ego that big that you really need people to thank you all day instead of their god?


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## Veneficus (Feb 24, 2012)

Sublime said:


> I feel the same way. If you think about it, religious people have something we will never have, they have the comfort of believing they're going somewhere better when they rdie. What do we have?



We get to know and be remembered as people who accomplished what we did by our own efforts and abilities. 

It is by our hard work, failure, and perseverence that the people whom we tried to help benefited. 

It wasn't a gift from a divine being when we succeeded and our unworthiness when we failed.

We do not live at the mercy of the world. We change the world at our mercy.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2012)

Corky said:


> but there is no record of crucifixion ever being used.... ever.....



Of Jesus in particular, or crucifixion overall?


Because crucificion was a well known, and used, punishment back then.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Feb 24, 2012)

*re*

Of Jesus, who was supposed to have been a enemy of the state at the time.  Though as a realist I do also understand that if such records did ever exist they may have been destroyed at a later date by some other ruling faction

And like everything else taught, History = His story with personal twist and biases added in.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Let's play who done it:

Who said: " I am going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I'm going to impregnate a child-bride with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself--to save you from the original sin I condemned you to".

Or if you want to argue the free will concept...

Robber says "Give me your money or I'll shoot!"
 People have free will, they can choose to obey the robbers commands or not.
 Robbers do not kill people, people choose to die by choosing to disobey the robber.

God commands "Worship me or burn in hell"
 People have free will, they can choose to obey gods commands or not.
 God does not kill people, people choose to go to hell by choosing to disobey a god.

I too have a strong issue with religion. Put aside all the whacky beliefs, rituals, thought processes and issues/preoccupation with people's sex lives and get right down to the core of it all...it simply is one of the most sadomasochistic relationships to ever exist. 

It is a concept that you are forced to love someone you fear....

And in closing, ❝There is no god, and that’s the simple truth. If every trace of any single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again.❞ - Penn Jillette


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2012)

And yet, there are things that exist that defy science itself... namely EVERY single thing that exists, including science itself.



Kind of ironic.  The thing meant to explain everything cannot explain itself.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Linuss said:


> And yet, there are things that exist that defy science itself... namely EVERY single thing that exists, including science itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of ironic.  The thing meant to explain everything cannot explain itself.



I say with great sadness that the true irony is that science has explained far more than religion ever did or even allowed. Scientists had to be declared heretics and face death in order to promote their views which today are widely known and accepted by both believers and non-believers. This mentality still occurs today, the death part not so much in the USA but it does exist.

Science continues to explain or attempt to explain many things which religion just ignores. Science also does not say they know or can explain everything...it is religion which typically makes that assertion. 

The darkest period in our time (The Dark Ages) when all learning and progress essentially ceased was also the time period when the Church was at its greatest power...how's that for irony.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2012)

And yet you're making it seem like people can't believe in science and God, that the two are mutually exclusive, when in fact, they currently aren't.



Neither has proven nor disproven the other.  And until science can disprove God, to state he doesn't exist is akin to the worlds view on Galileo or the idea that the world really wasn't flat:  Until you have proof, you can't say it's not right.


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## akflightmedic (Feb 24, 2012)

Linuss said:


> And yet you're making it seem like people can't believe in science and God, that the two are mutually exclusive, when in fact, they currently aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> Neither has proven nor disproven the other.  And until science can disprove God, to state he doesn't exist is akin to the worlds view on Galileo or the idea that the world really wasn't flat:  Until you have proof, you can't say it's not right.



And the circular reasoning continues....the burden of proof is on the one who claims an existence, not the other way around.

Science is provable in the sense that the experiment can be replicated in any part of the world and still yield the same results. And for the the majority of the facts, they are still provable decades or centuries later...that is pretty hard core science there. Can it change, absolutely but once it does, the observable evidence is again able to be replicated by peer review regardless of beliefs.

One does not need to disprove something to say it does not exist. See earlier posts about unicorns and leprechauns and the like...


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 24, 2012)

I don't think EMTLife.com is the appropriate place to discuss the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Entity.

Instead, why don't we get back to the original topic of this thread...EMS providers interactions with patients religious beliefs.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2012)

akflightmedic said:


> And the circular reasoning continues....the burden of proof is on the one who claims an existence, not the other way around.



How convenient that one side has to prove itself while the other doesn't.


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 24, 2012)

Last chance to get back on topic.


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## WickedGood (Feb 24, 2012)

OK back on topic-- how DO you handle it when someone who has a different religion than you confronts you about it.  I am going to use christianity because that's the most common one around here and generally the most proselytizing as well.  Most people around here will just assume you are christian which I find offensive.  If someone wants to talk about god's will and how it gave them cancer, COPD or hepatitis or maybe how it saved their lives I will just nod and smile.  BUT I will draw a very clear line of NO when asked to pray with a patient and I will politely declined an offer to pray for me.  I will NOT lie if a pt asks me if I am christian.  Never been asked about muslim, jewish, hindu etc..... For the record. I don't spout off no I'm an atheist/secular humanist or anything like that unless they asked specifically.  I'm usually just like.. nope not a christian. 


Maybe it's not the best way to handle it.  What do the rest of you heathens do out there?  Or you christians if you are presented with a muslim who wants you to pray with them?


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## bigbaldguy (Feb 24, 2012)

Our ultimate purpose as medical providers is to care for the patient. Part of caring for a patient is offering comfort. If I felt it would make a patient truly feel better to hold their hand and go through the motions of praying with them then I would. I would feel awkward and uncomfortable but I also feel awkward and uncomfortable when I'm wiping poop off a patient or trying to get some vomit covered drunk into the stretcher. It doesn't harm me in any way to accept someones prayers or pretend to pray with them. It doesn't matter that I don't believe in it what matters is that they feel better.


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## abckidsmom (Feb 24, 2012)

I am a christian, and when I am faced with a non Christian patient, I am as quietly respectful as ever. The message of christianity is love and acceptance, and I figure that starts with me. 

If they want me to pray with them, I pray silently. If they want to pray for me (this happened once in a Jehovah's witness service) I let them, unless it's disruptive to the work at hand. 

It is only awkward when there are signs of open hostility between me and the family or patient, and those instances, they just assumed I was whatever hostile Christian they imagined.  I am just not like that. Happy to tell you what I believe if you ask, happy to be nice to you the rest of the time. 

I will say that the area I live and work in is not very culturally diverse at all, most of the people are nominally Christian. I haven't run into a situation like this in years. Racial situations or women insults are way more common.


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## FourLoko (Feb 25, 2012)

Veneficus said:


> I thought dispatch was god,
> 
> You are just sitting there minding your own business when a disembodied voice tells you where to go and without question or thought, you stop whatever you are doing and follow the instructions.



lol so true


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## NYBLS (Feb 25, 2012)

I think house said it best: "I better not see you praying, I'm not sharing credit for this."

On a serious note, believe what you want, but respect the pts beliefs.


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## shfd739 (Feb 25, 2012)

I dont see things as when its your time, its your time.

I like to think people have control over their destiny and we are put in place to make a difference. Sometime we can, sometimes we cant.


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## Fish (Feb 25, 2012)

I do not look into this as much as the OP apparently does, I just go to work and do my job. I am Christian so If I am off on sundays I go to church. End of story, I do not give weird looks or commence biting of the tounge every time someone says something "un-christian" I just let people be, I smile and treat them with respect, this life is to short to argue about whether or not it was God or the AED, just go to work do your thing and do it well and then go home(all the while remaining neutral like your supposed to)


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## cruiseforever (Feb 25, 2012)

Maybe it was a PARAGOD.


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 25, 2012)

cruiseforever said:


> Maybe it was a PARAGOD.



:rofl:
It only took 87 posts in this thread before someone stated the obvious.
:rofl:


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## Cindigo (Feb 25, 2012)

Sasha said:


> Where is your evidence that God does NOT exist? You have evidence of evolution, yes, and disprove the bible but where is your evidence that there isn't a superpowerful omnipresent being in the sky who is guiding evolution or coordinating everything?
> 
> So you throwing scientific evidence in their face only proves evolution but does not disprove the existence of God. So again, how do you know it wasn't God? You don't. You take a chance, you believe one thing, and you are either right or wrong when you die.
> 
> ...



Why yes, just the other day dropped a bunch of acid and since I truely believed it wasn't going to do anything.....nothing happened!

Those people that got results.....I'm thinking a good portion would have gotten the same results if they had done nothing. The human mind is a beautiful thing, and the human body is pretty resiliant.

Looking at facts, thinking about things rationally and expecting people to do the same, isn't smug.  Religion always gets a pass and it isn't fair. Yes, some things can't be explained. If that's the case, you say "this can't be explained, but we're trying to figure it out". You don't make up a fairy tale and call it truth.

I will be the first one apologising and admiting I was wrong when jesus or whoever comes flying down here. 

Also, I apologize if ruffled (continuing to ruffle?) some feathers. It's easier to have verbal diahehha via text. I'm seriously not out on the world eviscerating the faithful. 

* also......this probably doesn't need to be said but.....i really didn't drop a bunch of acid. Just what I need a potential employer to find on the interwebs.


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## Cindigo (Feb 27, 2012)

akflightmedic said:


> Ahhh but what if my unicorn group grows and the passion for the horny one spreads? What if my group gets so large we start building phallic temples on every corner? What if our deity starts making requests that impact YOUR life...a non-horned one?
> 
> What if that group becomes so powerful and raises so much money and has so much influence that they are able to influence laws regulating your non horny life? Yet while doing all of this, they are respectful, they just want to regulate your life and activities-respectfully.



:wub:

*didn't mean to derail. I hadn't read all the posts before I responded*


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## firetender (Feb 27, 2012)

*Oh, God!*



Cindigo said:


> But, what I found irritating....after his long story about all the things that came together.....the luck of having a AED available, people at the gym that had just taken a CPR class to begin compressions and respirations immediately, the paramedics who arrived promptly and did everything they were trained to do, the doctors and hospital staff that went to school for years and years.....this guy at the end of his story says.....
> 
> "Thank God for his grace. It must not have been time for me to go"
> 
> Oh boy did I almost bite my tongue in half.


 
What's to bite? Oh, I get it, God gets all the credit, is that it?

It would seem Something would have had to put all that stuff together for the guy's life to be saved because that's how we think; cause and effect. When we run out of explanations we call on this person called "God" and as best as I can tell, most everyone's talking about the same entity: That which you turn to when nothing else makes sense or is too long to think about! It's got all sorts of names and "stuff" behind it.

Maybe God is just shorthand and Atheists just prefer to take their time exploring!

As far as I'm concerned, God is self-titrating medicine; a lot of people call upon it when they need it, and if I can support their choices in handling the trauma through it I will.

What if God were just one more key on our key rings? It doesn't matter what WE beleive, if the patient can get help from ANYTHING to mobilize their own healing systems, why shouldn't we use it?

Personally, I think we are so far away - in evolution - from being able to grasp the Mystery, we're all self-deluded fools on the same boat.


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## Steveb (Feb 28, 2012)

*But.*

I can see how your upset but....at the end of the day if your religious you know God decides if you make it or not.

Anyway you don't into EMS expecting thank yous


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## Cindigo (Feb 28, 2012)

firetender said:


> Personally, I think we are so far away - in evolution - from being able to grasp the Mystery, we're all self-deluded fools on the same boat.



S'true.

I do want to explain one thing though. There's been alot of comments about thinking that I, or science or medicine deserved the credit and that's where I got upset.

I don't think I made it clear in my original post, and probably by re-explaining it, it's just going to make me sound more arrogant and judgmental but, what the hell.

It's the logic part that bothers me. Stick with me, I've been told my analogies are horrible, but, I do love them so. Hearing him (the guy in starbucks) was like someone saying, red, red or green, red, green or blue, red, green or blue. Ahhhh, I get it POTATO! 

Sometimes when I encounter people it's just hard for me to understand where "potato" came from. But, most likely, the people who came up with "potato" are looking at me like, "how did you not get "potato?". 

Really, I know that everyone has their thing, and I'm not going to be a **** to a patient. When my dad was dying, I stood over his body and read the two sides of the prayer card over and over that he carried in his wallet crying my eyes out until he took his last breath. That's what he wanted. That's what made him comfortable. I'm going to do it. 

There are times to speak up, and there are times to not. I'm going to be biting my tongue if you're healthy, sitting in a starbucks and in my thinking are "misguided" (just my opinion....I'm sure alot of you think I'm the "misguided" one). I'm quiet, respectful and will do whatever it takes if you're in crisis.


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## DarkStarr (Feb 28, 2012)

This thread was doomed from the start.


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## cruiseforever (Feb 29, 2012)

If you believe in the Big Bang.  What triggered it and what exploded?

If you believe in God.  Where did he/she/it come from?

Does it really matter?


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## MedicBrew (Feb 29, 2012)

:deadhorse:

Just say'n....


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## Chimpie (Feb 29, 2012)

cruiseforever said:


> If you believe in the Big Bang.  What triggered it and what exploded?
> 
> If you believe in God.  Where did he/she/it come from?
> 
> Does it really matter?



I believe FFEMT8978 said it best with...



ffemt8978 said:


> I don't think EMTLife.com is the appropriate place to discuss the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Entity.
> 
> Instead, why don't we get back to the original topic of this thread...EMS providers interactions with patients religious beliefs.


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## mycrofft (Feb 29, 2012)

*It's all business.*

Be quiet and respectful, the client/patient's beliefs aren't the issue.

Many of them will have other thought-sets you must trust me that you will never want to hear about if thanking their god for deliverance is enough to bother you. Just do the medical thing, thanks folks for their concern, and give them a fake address to send their canvassers to.

(OP, were you wearing that name tag that said "GOD" again?).








Before I visited Afghanistan recently I read up on many cultural aspects of the general area, and started trying to practice them stateside (not obviously on EMTLIFE). Most were not religious, but the point is that, unless I pointed it out, no one noticed. And it can be really eye-opening to see how many little things* are culturally upsetting; folks from other cultures are BOMBARDED by our mannerisms (not to mention check-out line tabloid covers) and keep it together, we can too.

*such as: pointing with your finger, the "OK thumb-to-index finger sign, the "thumbs-up" ok sign, making too much eye contact upon meeting, shaking hands too hard, getting to the point too fast when first meeting (again), interrupting your elders, asking about their wife's health (as in "How's the wife?"), etc etc.


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## Thriceknight (Feb 29, 2012)

Bottom line...I think the OP was just trying to express some irritation with the Pt's perception of who was doing the "saving"....Narcissistic...I don't think so. We all work hard to give our Pt's the best possible care and outcome regardless of their beliefs. But I get irritated when people credit/thank "God". Believe what you want to. That's your right. But give credit where credit is due.


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## Vetitas86 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thriceknight said:


> Bottom line...I think the OP was just trying to express some irritation with the Pt's perception of who was doing the "saving"....Narcissistic...I don't think so. We all work hard to give our Pt's the best possible care and outcome regardless of their beliefs. But I get irritated when people credit/thank "God". Believe what you want to. That's your right. But give credit where credit is due.



Getting a bit metaphysical here, but who's to say that it's not God or chance or fate that you happened to be there? 

Admittedly, I do get irked when people thank God for their healing and disregard the medical personnel. But its a thought. Something brought you to EMS, and really, no one can say with surety whether or not its the fickle hand of fate.


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