# Demand Valves



## Jon (Feb 10, 2005)

Ok...Blue and I started this in another thread.

To Stir the Pot / Incite discussion:


There are conflicting opinions on demand valves. The "OLD" style were too high-pressure and caused gastric insulflation. they got pulled. Now they have ones that are pressure limited to reduce the risk to LESS than that of a BVM. Personally, I prefer the demand valve, and it lets me have 2 hands for a good mask seal. Also, they are REAL nice for giving TRUE 100% O2 - CO Poisoning, Smoke inhaltation etc....

Anyone else have feelings on this?

Jon


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## rescuecpt (Feb 10, 2005)

I like my demand valves when they're attached to my scuba regulator.


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## Jon (Feb 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rescuecpt_@Feb 10 2005, 10:26 PM
> * I like my demand valves when they're attached to my scuba regulator.    *


 Or SCBA, I guess...But not quite the topic   


Jon


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## Wingnut (Feb 10, 2005)

Are these the same as those FRVOPLMNOP things?

Flow -restricted oxygen powered device (If I remember correctly)


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## MMiz (Feb 10, 2005)

I know they're not allowed in our county, and I've never seen a unit in the field.

I always go through the galls catalog and think "Oh, that items outlawed" when I see one.  Can anyone tell me why I feel that way?  I must have picked up something along the way that makes me think as though they actually harm the patient, but really don't know where.

Hmm.


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## Summit (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MedicStudentJon_@Feb 10 2005, 10:20 PM
> * Also, they are REAL nice for giving TRUE 100% O2 - CO Poisoning, Smoke inhaltation etc.... *


 DCS
CAGE

-

Opinions on the MTV-100?


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## PArescueEMT (Feb 11, 2005)

I still like my BVM. I'll use the demand until I get to the truck, but once in the truck, i'll use the bag thank you.


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## MCSHughes (Feb 11, 2005)

Demand valves were GREAT...for those who understood how to use them properly!  And many didn't, just as today, not a lot of folks know how to use a BVM as effectively as they should.  The difference is that today, we'll just create anoxia and abdominal inflation with a BVM that we're not using properly.  But hey, the patients are mostly brain dead anyway, aren't they?  No.  Of course they aren't.  The easiest thing was to pull demand valves, instead of training and enforcing proper use.  We can't do that to BVM's though.


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## Jon (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MCSHughes_@Feb 11 2005, 01:48 PM
> * Demand valves were GREAT...for those who understood how to use them properly!  And many didn't, just as today, not a lot of folks know how to use a BVM as effectively as they should.  The difference is that today, we'll just create anoxia and abdominal inflation with a BVM that we're not using properly.  But hey, the patients are mostly brain dead anyway, aren't they?  No.  Of course they aren't.  The easiest thing was to pull demand valves, instead of training and enforcing proper use.  We can't do that to BVM's though. *


 Gosh, You sound like my head instructor in -P school, who is also a Respritory Therapist.

I personally like them, and they are simple and easy, and you can get as much feel of compliance if you know where and how to look.

BVMs are a pain.



> *I always go through the galls catalog and think "Oh, that items outlawed" when I see one. Can anyone tell me why I feel that way? I must have picked up something along the way that makes me think as though they actually harm the patient, but really don't know where.*



The problem, Matt is you had at least one instructor in EMT school / Early preceptor who felt strongly that they were evil tools of the devil.

Jon


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## MMiz (Feb 11, 2005)

But why?  What was so negative about this piece of equipment?  What harm does it do?


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## Jon (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MMiz_@Feb 11 2005, 02:03 PM
> * But why?  What was so negative about this piece of equipment?  What harm does it do? *


 The old ones, if it is used by someone too vigorously, could easly overfill the lungs and put LOADS of air ith the stomach, causing aspiration in addition to decreased lung capacity because the stomach was pressing on the lungs......


The "new style" have supposedly made the risk less than that of an impropely used BVM (you know, bagging 50-100 times a minute).


Jon


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## Wingnut (Feb 11, 2005)

IF these are the same as the FROPD's here, the debate is that it's too easy to push too much air and blow a lung and/or not be able to tell if you're ventilating accurately. Now here I know there changing them so that they are more accurate. 

Then again ya'll may be talking about something totally different and I'm totally off topic ....


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## Jon (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wingnut_@Feb 11 2005, 02:20 PM
> * IF these are the same as the FROPD's here, the debate is that it's too easy to push too much air and blow a lung and/or not be able to tell if you're ventilating accurately. Now here I know there changing them so that they are more accurate.
> 
> Then again ya'll may be talking about something totally different and I'm totally off topic ....   *


 you are right on topic.



Jon


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## TTLWHKR (Feb 11, 2005)

Used to have a demand valve (DV) on every engine with our WWII 24 unit first aid boxes. When we upgraded to trauma bags, every truck got a set of BVM's, aluminum tanks, and a LP500. The last truck on the list got a trauma bag, but we were out of BVM's, alum cylinders and AED's. So it got a DV minus the O2 powered aspirator. 

The 'elderly' truck has a resuscitator that was equipped with copper O2 tanks, weighs a ton w/ empty tanks. Can't imagine what it weighed with full tanks. The aspirator bottle is about as big as a baby food jar. 

I personally would rather use a demand valve, it was an invaluable tool. But the EMS region doesn't want it on ambulances. I figure it's okay for first aid on the fire ground. Until we either get some new ones (more than likely, we will phase them out). In-One-Two-three. out-one-two-three-four. In-one-two-three... Biggest problem we had with the non-disposable resuscitation systems was people getting to the ER and throwing the masks away. Those DV masks cost anywhere from 30-45 bucks a pop, as bad as the reusable BVM's.


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## TTLWHKR (Feb 11, 2005)

You two whackers (Jon & PA) are from SEPA, ever hear of the Churchill Pneolator Squad? If you look into the history of that area, I'm sure it will come up. 


MSA Pneolator and a sour face cop w/ their ambulance/paddy wagon.






Our antique truck has a resuscitator just like this, in fact I used this photo to help in restoring it.

I'm going to the firehouse as soon as I can drain one of my older spare tanks, and I'll try to lug our unit out and take a pic w/ the tank on it.


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## Jon (Feb 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Blueeighty8_@Feb 11 2005, 07:40 PM
> *
> The 'elderly' truck has a resuscitator that was equipped with copper O2 tanks, weighs a ton w/ empty tanks. Can't imagine what it weighed with full tanks. The aspirator bottle is about as big as a baby food jar.
> 
> *


 I, well PARescue, have an O2 powered aspirator. Nice toy to have, all you need is compressed air - no batteries to die when it sits around for years...Jon



> *Biggest problem we had with the non-disposable resuscitation systems was people getting to the ER and throwing the masks away. Those DV masks cost anywhere from 30-45 bucks a pop, as bad as the reusable BVM's.*



I prefer to use disposable masks with PArescue's - saves on the cleanup  - I _"aquired" _a few from a local ED


Jon


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## TTLWHKR (Feb 12, 2005)

I've found that modern BVM masks do not fit our older DV's. We had to custom make our own little adapter for modern masks b/c the older ones have two little pegs, and you slide the mask on and turn it into place. Like a BNC antenna connector on a scanner.


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