# Brother cheated



## Chelsea10 (Jan 13, 2018)

Hey guys and gals my idiot brother cheated on his paramedic exam for nremt, Pearson . Is he going to be able to retest or is he going to have to find a new career choice ?


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## VentMonkey (Jan 13, 2018)

This is rather distasteful. Lack of integrity should force him out of this field altogether.


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## Chelsea10 (Jan 13, 2018)

Yea I completely went off on him because of the same thing . And offered to tutor him if he is able to test again as I have been a medic for more 5 years .


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## Chelsea10 (Jan 13, 2018)

More than **


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## Gurby (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm really curious what he did - I can't think of how you would even go about cheating on the NREMT.  They make you empty your pockets before going into the room, and then you're on camera the whole time you're taking the test.  Go to the bathroom and look up a single question on the phone you stashed in your underwear?


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## Chelsea10 (Jan 13, 2018)

He used his phone to look up a question apparently and got caught I don't know if he had it on him or if he was in the bathroom . 
Is he going to be able to retest ?


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## mgr22 (Jan 13, 2018)

Chelsea10, you and your brother are both students? Tell your brother it's unlikely anyone who hasn't cheated would know the answer to his question, and he should probably ask the Registry what happens next.

So, after five years as a medic, what are you studying?


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## Chelsea10 (Jan 13, 2018)

I don't know what you are insinuating, but I study to become a better medic every single day.


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## Chelsea10 (Jan 13, 2018)

I made this thread for him about an hour ago sorry I went through as fast as I did and put I am a student .


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## akflightmedic (Jan 13, 2018)

Plot twist!!!

Chelsea IS "the brother..."  and is freaking out right now! 

Wow....getting caught looking up "a question"...as in one question (implied). What question was so tough that one would need to run to the bathroom and look up? Why that ONE question? Hmmmm....me thinks there is more to the story, as there always is.

To be continued...


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## akflightmedic (Jan 13, 2018)

Continuing sooner than planned...if I were a 5 year medic and my brother tried to follow my steps, I could assure you he would never need a reason to cheat on a final (I mean he already graduated the program itself right?).

Second, if my brother did do something like this, I would not be creating threads and seeking answers on his behalf. He absolutely would be on his own if he chose to try again somehow if rules allow.

And then the typo (Freudian slip?) of calling yourself a student in your rush to get answers on his behalf. Hmmmm...


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## ParkMedic (Jan 13, 2018)

Whoever cheats, should get to steppin'.


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## VentMonkey (Jan 13, 2018)

ParkMedic said:


> Whoever cheats, should get to steppin'.


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## RocketMedic (Jan 13, 2018)

Definitely raises questions of integrity


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## TransportJockey (Jan 13, 2018)

Hopefully he needs to find another career. There's no room in this one for someone like him


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## E tank (Jan 13, 2018)

Tough crowd...not condoning cheating. Some discipline is in order, but if one bonehead move is sufficient for a lifetime ban, there'd be a lot of job openings all of a sudden...


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## MMiz (Jan 13, 2018)

E tank said:


> Tough crowd...not condoning cheating. Some discipline is in order, but if one bonehead move is sufficient for a lifetime ban, there'd be a lot of job openings all of a sudden...



The student allegedly cheated on the certification exam.  Don't you think that should disqualify someone from the qualification?  Shouldn't we aim for a higher standard in EMS?

As an educator, academic dishonesty is prevalent, but the solution isn't lowering our standards.


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## E tank (Jan 13, 2018)

MMiz said:


> The student allegedly cheated on the certification exam.  Don't you think that should disqualify someone from the qualification?  Shouldn't we aim for a higher standard in EMS?
> 
> As an educator, academic dishonesty is prevalent, but the solution isn't lowering our standards.



Lowering standards would be making the test easier so less people would feel the need to cheat. Not suggesting that at all. I get that a life time ban would be a pretty potent incentive to not take the chance, but then the strict conditions under which folks take the test is recognition that dishonest people take and pass the test. 

I suppose if you support a ban, it should be because the individual in question was too dumb not to get caught, not because he succumbed to a dumb temptation. If a moral fitness, one strike and you're out standard would be enforced, entire services and departments would close.

Just my opinion, make the punishment just and painful, but an outright ban doesn't seem right.


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## CALEMT (Jan 13, 2018)

E tank said:


> but an outright ban doesn't seem right.



If you can’t trust someone taking a test how would you trust that individual with someone’s husband, wife, son, or daughter?


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## akflightmedic (Jan 14, 2018)

E-Tank...

You are accused of a crime you did not commit. Your lawyer cheated on the bar exam. You good with that?
Taxes are due on your successful yet small business. Your CPA cheated on the certification exam. You good with that?
Pipes break in your house, money is tight. Your plumber cheated on his certification. You good with that?

Do not get me wrong. I am not taking the superior morality approach here...I do not deal in absolutes to this extreme. This is an initial certification exam! Demonstrate basic competency so that you may go out and make mistakes and continue to learn....how/why do you need to cheat on this exam??


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## 45revolution (Jan 14, 2018)

you guys act like you've never needed to look something up after or during a call


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## luke_31 (Jan 14, 2018)

45revolution said:


> you guys act like you've never needed to look something up after or during a call


There is a big difference between looking something up before or after a call and looking something up while you are taking a test. You're supposed to have baseline knowledge to pass the NREMT exams.  Where once you are in the field it may be a while between different call types and you need to refresh your memory on what steps need to be taken. I've looked up our snake bite protocol in the way to a call just to be sure I followed it correctly. Also some people might not see a certain patient demographic for a while and need a refresher on the way to the call or what to refresh what they may have missed after a call. Nothing is wrong with doing that. I have access to a complete pharmacy for any patients that I transport out of my hospital, am I supposed to know every single drug and everything about it?  Or maybe I learn the common ones we transport and reference a drug encyclopedia for the others as I come across them.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 14, 2018)

45revolution said:


> you guys act like you've never needed to look something up after or during a call



I do it on calls often. I didn’t do it in a testing situation where I was specifically NOT PERMITTED to use outside sources.


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## StCEMT (Jan 14, 2018)

45revolution said:


> you guys act like you've never needed to look something up after or during a call


I have on many occasions. The difference is I didn't have to when I was being tested. I put in the work and passed without having to break rules to do so.


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## MackTheKnife (Jan 14, 2018)

45revolution said:


> you guys act like you've never needed to look something up after or during a call


Not during a test where you know the rules going in. Not the same after a call.


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## Carlos Danger (Jan 14, 2018)

I absolutely do not condone cheating. I did EMT—>EMTP—>NREMTP—>CCEMTP—>FP-C—>AASEMTP—>ASN—>ASN boards—>CFRN—>CCRN—BSN—>CRNA entry exam—>numerous CRNA program exams—>CRNA board certification and I never cheated on a single question the whole time.

That said, I am aware of the reality that many people do cheat. There's a decent chance that that MD you see all the time that is really awesome at what he does and who you learn from frequently, may have cheated at at least one point in his academic career.

The problem isn't that the testers necessarily _need _to cheat in oder to pass. The problem is that the stakes are so high. You've spent several years working hard and accumulating debt in order to reach a certain point. Even if you are pretty confident you can pass without cheating, if there's something you can do to ensure that you do pass, and you are pretty confident that you can do so without getting caught, then you have a risk:benefit scenario to analyze. You can talk about integrity and ethics all you want, but if you want to do a really honest analysis of those things, you have to take into account the actual consequences of cheating vs. the consequences of potentially failing a high-stakes exam for some reason other than clinical competence.

Again, I do not condone cheating, but if you want to be really honest about the problem and potentially have a positive impact on it, you have no choice but to accept that fact that it really isn't as simple as it appears on it's face. It isn't right, but the ramifications of failing might not be right, either.


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## mgr22 (Jan 14, 2018)

Remi, I agree with you about the risk/benefit nature of cheating scenarios. I'm also pretty sure most of us have done things we're not proud of, and some of that was cheating. But when my kids were younger, I wouldn't have wanted to make it any easier for them to cheat by suggesting possible justifications. (I'm not saying you're doing that -- please bear with me.) That's kind of how I see our responsibilities on a public forum like this: have a bias toward representing ethics for its own sake. Sometimes we're hypocrites when we do that, and sometimes the issues are too complex for easy answers, but I think it's better for our industry if we encourage those who ask about cheating to see it as bad and career-threatening.


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## E tank (Jan 14, 2018)

mgr22 said:


> .... but I think it's better for our industry if we encourage those who ask about cheating to see it as bad and career-threatening.




Who here has done otherwise? Condemning cheating and advocating for a second chance after appropriate consequences aren't mutually exclusive.


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## mgr22 (Jan 14, 2018)

E tank said:


> Who here has done otherwise? Condemning cheating and advocating for a second chance after appropriate consequences aren't mutually exclusive.



No one. Who here is saying otherwise?


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## mo2002 (Jan 15, 2018)

Wow pretty harsh, one bad move and he needs to find another way to make a living? I could understand if he spat on someone or lost his cool, but he got caught cheating. Even the registry would most likely reprimand similar to those with DUIs but most cases even they don't revoke access forever. Anywho I digress.

Your "brother" needs to get their act together, study more efficiently, and ask for grace and mercy from the state. Otherwise I hear Uber is hiring


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## Ethan (Jan 15, 2018)

I dont believe he will be retesting anytime soon. I believe the regulations are also written on the NREMT. Calling them is advised.


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## CALEMT (Jan 16, 2018)

StCEMT said:


> I put in the work and passed without having to break rules to do so.



It's funny because for me to say I've never cheated would be the biggest load of bull I've ever fed to anyone. No one here is perfect, but when it came to my NREMT and recently my NREMT-P(?) NRP(?) I used a primitive method where I studied the material and hot damn it actually worked.


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## StCEMT (Jan 16, 2018)

CALEMT said:


> It's funny because for me to say I've never cheated would be the biggest load of bull I've ever fed to anyone. No one here is perfect, but when it came to my NREMT and recently my NREMT-P(?) NRP(?) I used a primitive method where I studied the material and hot damn it actually worked.


Oh we all have at one point in our lives. I'd hope that anyone at the point of testing to be a Paramedic would have long since outgrown that phase of life where that is more common.


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## TheEleventhHour (Jan 18, 2018)

I'm not perfect but I'd rather fail & see what I don't know so I could strengthen my knowledgebase is those areas as opposed to cheating & not knowing what to do in the field. Someone's life may be at stake.


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## VentMonkey (Jan 18, 2018)

Also, the OP has yet to return to their own thread. So, yeah...


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## Jay Smith (Feb 2, 2018)

I say let this one slide but don’t do it again.


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## DrParasite (Feb 2, 2018)

I say close this thread as no further useful information can come from it.  @Chimpie


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## Chimpie (Feb 5, 2018)

*The moderators are watching this thread. As long as rules are not broken, it will stay open.*


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## Gurby (Feb 5, 2018)

Chimpie said:


> *The moderators are watching this thread. As long as rules are not broken, it will stay open.*


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## E tank (Feb 5, 2018)

DrParasite said:


> I say close this thread as no further useful information can come from it.  @Chimpie



There are probably a few thousand that meet that criteria....Chimpie better order in tonight...


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## CALEMT (Feb 5, 2018)

Chimpie said:


> The moderators are watching this thread.


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## TheEleventhHour (Feb 6, 2018)

OP has yet to return.


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