# Don't cut off a fire truck... it will win.



## LucidResq (Mar 13, 2008)

Car runs red light and gets hit by engine running code responding to MVA - photos.


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2008)

Source for the car running a red light?


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## LucidResq (Mar 13, 2008)

This is the FD my SAR team works with and "lives" with and I have heard they were running a red.... also the vast majority of traffic lights in the city turn red when an emergency vehicle approaches running code. 

That may be incorrect information though, I'll change it. 

Actually... won't let me do it.


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## JPINFV (Mar 13, 2008)

No need to change it, I was just wondering. Opticom (or opticom-like) systems are cool.


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## LucidResq (Mar 13, 2008)

Yup. It never ceases to amaze me how many people are completely oblivious while driving. They are lucky to be alive.


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## certguy (Mar 13, 2008)

OUCH ! I'll bet he doesn't do that again . Were the driver's injuries serious ? How's the FF ?


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## Airway Junkie (Mar 13, 2008)

How many of the firefighters do you suppose were wearing seatbelts?


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## LucidResq (Mar 13, 2008)

From what I heard the FF is okay... it sounds like it was one of those go-get-it-checked-out-now-cause-it's-covered-by-workman's-comp sorta things. No word on the driver or passenger, but I know their injuries were not serious. 

I don't know about the seatbelts thing, but the guys in that dept seem to be pretty good about wearing them. That may just be because they know someone's watching and I'm usually with their Capt. when I'm over there.


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## Ops Paramedic (Mar 13, 2008)

Fire truck vs car = Fire truck 1, car 0.  At least it sounds like the guys are not serioulsy injured.


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## KillTank (Mar 13, 2008)

when you get into a mva with a emergency vehicle... should you consider yourself lucky or sol cause nothing like a million dollars worth of steel and rubber to give you a bad day. now can they respond to their own call?^_^


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## Outbac1 (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm glad no one was seriously hurt. I don't know how fast the firetruck was going as they approached the light but it shows why one should never blast through a light regardless of it's color. Hopefully they approached slowly with caution and the knucklehead car driver was totally at fault.

  As I re-examin the pics it appears the FT didn't move the car too far across the intersection. So they were probably not going too fast and/or on the brakes when they hit. Sometimes you just can't avoid a collision and those trucks don't turn or stop on a dime. A good lesson for everyone.


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## Jon (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm glad to hear the firefighters "usually" wear seat belts.

I agree.. it looks like the chauffeur tried to stop, and even though he didn't miss the car, the damage looks like he wasn't going that fast at the time of impact... I'm glad the FF's are ok.

This is something to remember... Opticoms can make traffic lights change quickly, and some people aren't paying attention... so be careful... just cause the opticom is going doesn't mean that some bonehead won't run a red light because they aren't paying attention.


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2008)

You know, I would be interested to see what the differences in response times are between no L/S/opticom, Opticom only, L/S only, and Opticom/L/S responses and transports. The only studies I've seen are L/S vs no L/S and those haven't really helped the case for emergency transports (statistically significant, but time saved was generally not clinically significant). Maybe there's a strong case for doing away with emergency lights and only going with opticom systems.


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## Doctor B (Mar 14, 2008)

Engine 17 was driving west bound on University Code 3 when a vehicle ran the intersection heading south on Cresthill Lane.

Correct me if I'm wrong but where does it say that the car actually ran a red light? While I'm all in favor of the traffic omitters this still serves as a good reminder that no matter what the color of the light may be we as responders still need to approach intersections with due dilligence. We owe it to ourselves, those in the vehicle with us, as well as to the general public. No matter whose at fault here everybody loses!


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## LucidResq (Mar 14, 2008)

Doctor B said:


> Engine 17 was driving west bound on University Code 3 when a vehicle ran the intersection heading south on Cresthill Lane.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but where does it say that the car actually ran a red light?





LucidResq said:


> This is the FD my SAR team works with and "lives" with and I have heard they were running a red.... also the vast majority of traffic lights in the city turn red when an emergency vehicle approaches running code.
> 
> That may be incorrect information though, I'll change it.
> 
> Actually... won't let me do it.



But I absolutely agree with all of your statements about diligence. I mean, I wasn't at this crash, it may or may not have been the car driver's fault. And yes, I've seen the Opticom systems change the lights pretty quickly so the driver may have not noticed (they do give enough time if a driver is giving their full attention to the road, but even excellent drivers cannot do this 100% of the time). 

I have never driven an emergency vehicle (thank god) but if I do I am going to assume that everyone on the road is a complete moron that is applying mascara, reading a mystery novel, or sponge-bathing themselves while operating their vehicle.


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## wolfwyndd (Mar 14, 2008)

Glad no one was SERIOUSLY hurt.  

Any idea what happened / will happen to the driver of the fire truck?  Depending on how the accident went down, if there is ANY doubt in fault, it could end the FF's career.


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## LucidResq (Mar 14, 2008)

I don't believe the FF was fired or anything. I'm not sure though. 

Wow... I just took another looksy at the photos. If the car had just been a foot and a half or so farther into the intersection... that driver probably would've been in much worse condition.


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## mdtaylor (Mar 15, 2008)

wolfwyndd said:


> Glad no one was SERIOUSLY hurt.
> 
> Any idea what happened / will happen to the driver of the fire truck?  Depending on how the accident went down, if there is ANY doubt in fault, it could end the FF's career.



As a driver/operator I can tell with certainty that it is ALWAYS the emergency vehicle's fault, unless that emergency vehicle is at a full stop when it is struck.

At least that's the way departments in my area view it. Your mileage may vary.


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 16, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> You know, I would be interested to see what the differences in response times are between no L/S/opticom, Opticom only, L/S only, and Opticom/L/S responses and transports. The only studies I've seen are L/S vs no L/S and those haven't really helped the case for emergency transports (statistically significant, but time saved was generally not clinically significant). Maybe there's a strong case for doing away with emergency lights and only going with opticom systems.



The ambulance service I work for many times will roll two units on some calls. One leaves lights and sirens and the other will dive normal , no lights or sirens.
So many times the second truck will pull in behind the first with in a minute or two and ran no lights and just drove normal.
I ran an asst the other day, so I was the back up truck. My partner went with the first in the als unit I followed back to the hospital to pick him up and clocked both units. We were pretty far out and I got there two and a half minutes behind the als truck and the crew got out *****ing about the dude driving throwing them all over the place. (I think they wrote him up)
I'm really happy to say way more often than not as EMS we go "normal driving" rather than lights and sirens. Just not worth the danger when Gram fell or someone has a "rectal bleed". B)


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## Pittsburgh Proud (Mar 16, 2008)

mdtaylor said:


> As a driver/operator I can tell with certainty that it is ALWAYS the emergency vehicle's fault, unless that emergency vehicle is at a full stop when it is struck.
> 
> At least that's the way departments in my area view it. Your mileage may vary.



Sad but true, I have to agree with that.


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