# CrossFit?



## Amber Lance (Jan 23, 2014)

What do you think of CrossFit for fire/EMS? 

I ask because I recently became painfully aware of the loooong way I have to go before I'd consider myself ready to join a career fire department. (I also want to be in better shape for EMS-only jobs in the interim.) 

I'm starting from pretty much nothing (I have a fair amount of strength but zero endurance and need to lose weight). I found a "box" here in Albuquerque that's run by firefighters and it seems like a good place.

For those with experience with the program, how do you feel it works for our field?

Have you had any issues with injuries? (This is my biggest concern)

Thanks!!


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 23, 2014)

A lot of fire departments are moving towards or using crossfit for PT. There are goods and bads  to it.

I personally I think crossfit is an awesome program for fire. Think about operations on a fireground...


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 23, 2014)

I don't really drink the CrossFit kool-aid as a competitive sport, but I do agree with Robb that it's an excellent program, especially for people who aren't the best self-motivators or don't know their way around a gym.  The fundamentals of crossfit - functional movements, constant variation - are perfect for firefighting and EMS.

A good crossfit gym (I'm not calling it a box, I refuse) starts with the coaching staff. They should be certified, helpful, and focus you - esp as a new person - on good form and basic movements.  The atmosphere should be welcoming and encouraging.  If its full of meatheads screaming at each other, look elsewhere.

As for injuries, one of the nice things about crossfit is that almost all of the workouts are eminently scalable.  If you can't do all the pushups, or pullups, or pistol squats, you can scale them and still get benefit while you work towards Rx.


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## 46Young (Jan 24, 2014)

Experience: 6 years professional ff/medic, and five years in single role EMS, CrossFit (for the most part) since 2006

The short answer is that CF works very well for the fire service, and EMS as well. The problem is, you need to be careful:

My observation is that many people get injured through poor form, either by not learning the movements correctly, performing couplets and triplets that are badly paired (for example - muscle-ups or burpees with snatches), or sacrificing form to race the clock. In fact, some idiot wrote an article attempting to justify that 80% correct form is acceptable for met-cons. The other issue is that you need to ascertain the level of expertise of your CF coach. Did they do the weekend cert, and maybe a few workshops before training clients, or have they at least obtained the USAW coaching cert, perhaps traveled to Westside (like my former coach did), and have prior personal training experience, CSCS, etc.

I first found CF while researching the best way to prepare for the CPAT. I quickly identified that the O-lifts are dangerous if not taught properly. I joined an O-lifting club, and stayed with it for six months until I got hired and moved. The catch-22 is, the O-lifts are very metabolically demanding, but are also dangerous at high rep ranges. While I can get away with doing high rep OL met-cons, I find it much safer to substitute kettlebells or dumbbells for the barbell movements. For example, a double kettlebell snatch will smoke you just as much as a BB snatch. Same for the clean and jerk. Why not sub thrusters for squat cleans? Things can go horribly wrong with high-rep O-lifts. Look at the guy that just paralyzed himself doing high rep snatches. If you pay close attention to the video, as he received the bar overhead, something just gave out, sending the bar straight down onto his back. With high rep OL, something can and does give out - maybe you'll blow out a shoulder, rupture a disc in your L-spine, tear your ACL by going valgus (knees tracking inwards). 

You have to be smart about your exercise selection. I see a lot of people banging their shins doing box jumps after deadlifts, squats, or jump rope in a met-con. The first jump is dicey; your legs won't work well, and you end up slicing your shins. Heavy deadlifts coupled with running is also idiotic. I'm lucky that I can deadlift over 500#, so the met-cons that call for running coupled with DL's @ 225#, 275#, 315# aren't too risky. If my max is 375, I'm at high risk for injury.

Another thing is, CF works really well for anyone at first. But after a while, you reach a point of diminished returns, chiefly due to the lack of a structured strength program. I've seen the CF games athletes doing routines totally different than the general population in the CF gym. They do regular OL and powerlifting sessions every day, maybe the gym's met-con or their own, and weakness training at another time of the day. For the long term, you can't progess in everything on 20-45 mins a day. Just look at what Rich Froning does on a typical day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5pweLAQo_g

The good about CF for the fire service is that the work is often more intense than a typical working fire, and regular gymnsatics, OL, and kettlebell work should bullet proof your body to withstand lifting patients in position of poor leverage (pt stuck in a bathtub, between the bed and the wall, Reeves down winding stairs, etc.) in EMS. I find my firefighting duties to be easier, for the most part, than my CF workouts. Consider this: if you can get comfortable doing drills with a 2 pood kettlebell (70#), your structural PPE will feel so light, it's like you're not even wearing anything. 

I recommend alternating upper and lower body strength training before the WOD (met-con) for the day, alternating lower body powerlifts first day, upper body gynastics the second, OL the third, and upper body barbell lifts the fourth. I do this over a five day cycle, doing no strength training on dayd 3 and 6, met-con only those days, off on Sun. Every fifth week I cut out the heavy lifting, but do a few extra heavy met-cons. I try to keep this schedule up to the best of my ability regarding calls and life in general, and I'm not afraid to take a day off here and there if I'm feeling a little crispy.

Here's a decent article about the pros and cons of CF. It has a few flaws, but is fairly accurate, overall:

http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly


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## 46Young (Jan 24, 2014)

dixie_flatline said:


> I don't really drink the CrossFit kool-aid as a competitive sport, but I do agree with Robb that it's an excellent program, especially for people who aren't the best self-motivators or don't know their way around a gym.  The fundamentals of crossfit - functional movements, constant variation - are perfect for firefighting and EMS.
> 
> A good crossfit gym (I'm not calling it a box, I refuse) starts with the coaching staff. They should be certified, helpful, and focus you - esp as a new person - on good form and basic movements.  The atmosphere should be welcoming and encouraging.  If its full of meatheads screaming at each other, look elsewhere.
> 
> As for injuries, one of the nice things about crossfit is that almost all of the workouts are eminently scalable.  If you can't do all the pushups, or pullups, or pistol squats, you can scale them and still get benefit while you work towards Rx.



I agree that the "sport of crossfit" has gotten far out of hand. Really, the WOD's that I've seen over numerous gyms can also get out of hand. It's like they're trying to make these WOD's more and more exotic (complicated) to pique the public's interest. The CF games WODs can be dangerous for the average crossfitter to attempt. Even the "open" WODs (the CF games qualifying events) can be moronic. Sure, they're typically WODs that anyone should be able to do, but let's look at WOD 13.1, just off the top of my head - burpees and snatches, starting from 75# and ending up at 210#. Sure you can scale, but I wonder how many backs and shoulders got blown out doing that one.

Scaling is key, and so is subbing kettlebell or dumbbell versions of the O-lifts. Do I want to do a bunch of squat cleans @ 135# or would I be much safer using two 65# or 70# dumbbells? How about thrusters instead? Overhead squats shouldn't bee to risky, but I could take the 115 OHS portion of a WOD, double the reps, use a 53# kettlebell and get just as good of an effect.


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## dixie_flatline (Jan 24, 2014)

46Young said:


> I agree that the "sport of crossfit" has gotten far out of hand. Really, the WOD's that I've seen over numerous gyms can also get out of hand. It's like they're trying to make these WOD's more and more exotic (complicated) to pique the public's interest. The CF games WODs can be dangerous for the average crossfitter to attempt. Even the "open" WODs (the CF games qualifying events) can be moronic. Sure, they're typically WODs that anyone should be able to do, but let's look at WOD 13.1, just off the top of my head - burpees and snatches, starting from 75# and ending up at 210#. Sure you can scale, but I wonder how many backs and shoulders got blown out doing that one.
> 
> Scaling is key, and so is subbing kettlebell or dumbbell versions of the O-lifts. Do I want to do a bunch of squat cleans @ 135# or would I be much safer using two 65# or 70# dumbbells? How about thrusters instead? Overhead squats shouldn't bee to risky, but I could take the 115 OHS portion of a WOD, double the reps, use a 53# kettlebell and get just as good of an effect.



Agree.  Like I said, the key is finding a great coach/owner.  If they're focusing on guiding newbies with basic movements and are confident enough in their programming to scale things safely, you're going to have a great experience.  If they let in classes of 60 with a single instructor, with a poor guy in the corner trying to do 1RM snatches on his first day - run away as fast as you can.

And I will also agree that, with a good coach and proper form, lifting patients with the proper technique becomes almost an afterthought.  SQUATS FOREVER


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## 46Young (Jan 24, 2014)

Here's a perfect example of poor exercise pairing, from Crossfit Mayhem (Rich Froning's spot), on 1/21/2014:

http://www.crossfitmayhem.com/

*Metcon (Time)

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1
Hang Snatch (135/95)
Back Squat (135/95)
Burpees
*

So, I'm going to do ten full snatches from the hang, then squats, then burpees, then nine snatches etc. The back squats and burpees will fatigue both the legs and lower back, and the burpees will get the arms a little tired as well. We're then expected to do snatches from the hang, and land in a full squat, for multiple reps. Go or no go? What do you think?

Edit: Even worse, they made a workout to "honor" the guy who broke his back doing 3RM touch and go snatches after seven prior events that day. This is from Crossfit Verve, Matt Chan's gym, 1/14/2014:

http://www.crossfitverve.com/wod-blog/

*“OGAR” 
As many rounds as possible in 14 minutes of: 

3 Snatch
1 Muscle Up
12 Wall Balls 20#(14#)*

The poor guy paralyzed himself doing snatches, so we're going to combine the two demanding, technical exercises, the snatch and muscle-ups, and chase them with wall balls, which will pre-exhaust the same muscle groups that are needed for those exercises.


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## 46Young (Jan 24, 2014)

dixie_flatline said:


> Agree.  Like I said, the key is finding a great coach/owner.  If they're focusing on guiding newbies with basic movements and are confident enough in their programming to scale things safely, you're going to have a great experience.  If they let in classes of 60 with a single instructor, with a poor guy in the corner trying to do 1RM snatches on his first day - run away as fast as you can.
> 
> And I will also agree that, with a good coach and proper form, lifting patients with the proper technique becomes almost an afterthought.  SQUATS FOREVER



Agreed. 

The inherent weakness of CF is that it follows the same business model as a karate dojo - classes every 30 mins to an hour, small to medium sized group, same skills training and worout for everyone. With only an hour or less to work with every day (including warm up and cool down), there's not a whole lot of time for individual coaching, making sure everyone can properly execute that day's WOD. This is why many CF gyms only do dedicated strength work every fifth day or so, and typically very different exercises each time. You can't get in strength work and the WOD every day if you're running classes every half hour, and you're certainly not permitted to come back later in the day to do extra strength and skills work, like the CF games athletes do.

 I'm not paying $100-$150/month to use the place for 30-45mins. of productive work, max, each day. This is why more and are setting up "CF rooms" in their gyms, or at least an  OL platform, some rowers, wall balls, plyo boxes, and rings.


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## Amber Lance (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks folks! A lot of useful information here. Now, I just have to summon the courage to get started! :unsure:


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## 46Young (Feb 5, 2014)

Amber Lance said:


> Thanks folks! A lot of useful information here. Now, I just have to summon the courage to get started! :unsure:



That's easy! Every time you're about to take a shower, do five rounds of 15 push-ups and 15 squats. You can get in 150 reps of work in 5-8 mins. Add that up over the week, and it's like doing two extra workouts a week


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## jgmedic (Feb 20, 2014)

To second part of what 46Young said, the biggest key is good coaching. So many boxes have popped up due to the explosion in popularity. The certification for CF coaching is laughable at best too, there's no real requirements other than paying the money. That being said, I have never found a regime that works for me like CF does. When I started, I couldn't do 10 situps, and my max DL was 200lbs. Now I'm at 375lbs max and have no problems with calisthenics. The biggest advantage to me is that it really is functional fitness, esp for EMS/FD/LE. I have noticed a significant help to my lifting and moving at work, and a huge increase in endurance when doing other exercise and sports. It is expensive, but the camaraderie and team aspect is appealing to many people, and a big reason why I like it. I am extremely careful about scaling and safety, and my box is also huge on injury prevention, and if you are hurt, you will be stopping or scaling way back to prevent further injury.


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