# What kind of paramedic "education" do you have?



## ErinCooley (Nov 28, 2007)

I don't know if all programs are similar to Georgia but here you can get a certificate in Paramedic Technology OR an Associates degree in Paramedic technology.  I only know of 2 schools which do the AA degree locally BUT that is all I know.

I would love to know the difference in pay, and all of those other "perks" that come with a degree vs. certificate.


PS, I'm hoping to do the AA program, beginning in just over 1 year from my completion of EMT-I... giving me over 2 years in the field before taking NREMT-P.  Having a BS in Geography, all of the core stuff for the AA should transfer easily which would make it no harder to get an AA vs. a certificate in my situation.  The only negative, I will have to drive about 15 miles FURTHER (about 40 miles each way compared to the 25-30 with the school I'm currently in) with a little more traffic.  I'm curious to know about your experiences. (I'm fairly effin nosy if you havent figured that out yet )


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## Asclepius (Nov 28, 2007)

You're going to pay more for your education going through a university program. But I think it is well worth it.

I have a unique perspective of taking the course through an agency and also having taken it through a university. I took and passed the didactic portion of the paramedic class in Illinois just before our move to Northern Kentucky. However, right after I moved to Kentucky I had to have a series of operations on my right leg and ankle and so I was not able to do all of my practicals. I chose, after healing up, to seek out my education at the birthplace of EMS, Cincinnati, OH. University of Cincinnati has a highly regarded and accredited program. 

I believe the educational experience I received at the university far surpasses the level of instruction I received from the agency. However, I think I had better clinical experience through the agency. That may be because I was from that EMS system and agency and I was just more at home than I was in the Cincinnati area.

As far as pay goes, not really sure. My current plan is to finish the AA portion of it (all the gen ed stuff) and then seek out a bachelor of EMS Administration at Western Carolina University. But I'll probably be a senior citizen before I make it that far, because I am not much of an academic person and so I have to pace myself.


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## ErinCooley (Nov 29, 2007)

I'm really fortunate that I live in Georgia which has the HOPE scholarship.  It will pay for almost all of the cost of tuition and $100.00 for books per semester/quarter.

My EMT-I program hasn't cost a dime.  HOPE pays for 100% of tuition and $100.00 per quarter for books.  I only had to buy books the first quarter, we are using it the entire time. That $100.00 for books is refunded to me which I've used on uniform, boots and field guides!!! Living in Georgia rocks, education wise!!!


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## firecoins (Nov 29, 2007)

I am in a hospital based program.  It is worth college credit. You only get a certificate when you graduate.  So far I am enjoying it very much.


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## natrab (Nov 30, 2007)

I went to a "Training center" type vocational school (where I now work at as a proctor/teacher).  As many have said these types of schools can sometimes provide a substandard education.  The program I went through took about 1 year (including clinicals and internship) and includes about 1200 hours of instruction.  My school is fully accredited and counts for college credits.  If you decide to go to a vocational school, make sure they at least are accredited or you may be gravely let down.  I received a solid basis for starting work as a paramedic, though I still attend classes and lectures to further my knowledge (some topics which would likely be covered within a 2 year AA degree).


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## reaper (Nov 30, 2007)

You are better off with a AA program. But, if you get a certificate, you can still go back and get your AA at another college when your done.


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## Ridryder911 (Nov 30, 2007)

Not all Paramedic programs are created equally. For example, there are many that offer a certificate (whatever that means) to be able to apply for college credit, that may not be valid for all colleges and a valid "recognized degree. 

I know of a Vo-tech paramedic program that acclaims to have courses that will transfer to a degree program. Part of the problem is the anatomy & physiology is included in the program. When initially started was taught by a RN with a M.S. degree, now taught by a Paramedic with no college experience in science, and the highest degree is H.S. Does one really think that receiving colleges will transfer their A & P? .... hmmm doctorate of science teaching the course vs. high school graduate.. what do you think?  

As well, look at the degree that is offered. AAS means applied science, not associate of science, which is quite different. I even seen a practical nursing degree the other day, which means a LPN with a applied associates in practical nursing, in other words, represents or = nothing. The degree has no value. 

So be very careful in what and how the degree is worded. Not all courses will transfer from programs and just because one has a "certificate". Even college transfer hours may not transfer, so very be cautious, check with counselors and sometimes each course has to weighed and evaluated. 

For our profession to ever be considered a real profession, we will have to require at the least an associate degree for entry level. I believe we will see major changes within the next five years, and especially afterwards. The trend has now been started, and will only continue to grow. Things will never be the same again.. thank goodness. 

R/r 911


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## firecoins (Nov 30, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> I know of a Vo-tech paramedic program that acclaims to have courses that will transfer to a degree program. Part of the problem is the anatomy & physiology is included in the program. When initially started was taught by a RN with a M.S. degree, now taught by a Paramedic with no college experience in science, and the highest degree is H.S. Does one really think that receiving colleges will transfer their A & P? .... hmmm doctorate of science teaching the course vs. high school graduate.. what do you think?
> R/r 911




Clearly that "course" will not transfer.  The A & P section of my medic certificate class would not warrent an A&P class either.  I took A&P I over the summer at a community college. This A&P class is used for the community college's medic program.  Both were very hard.  The A&P in the certificate program dealt with general concepts while A&P I at the community college is more into the nuts and bolts.  I prefered the community college one.  I will be taking A&P II  at the community college in the upcoming semester while still in my current medic class.


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## natrab (Nov 30, 2007)

The A&P section in my school was taught by the local community college A&P professor.  That portion of class will typically cause 8-10% of the class roster to drop (usually the people who were less serious about becoming medics).  Thankfully I had taken A&P from the same professor a couple years back so it wasn't tough for me.

Quality of teachers is what really counts.  I was taught mainly by a couple PAs with MDs coming in for specific topic lectures.  Nurses and seasoned paramedics taught a lot of the practical stuff as well.

Watch out for newer schools with medics teaching medics, as the teachers can sometimes turn out to be new.  If your school is accredited they'll be required to have a teaching credential at minimum (which I think requires a 4 year degree) to be a teacher there.


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## Medic8388 (Dec 14, 2007)

We get NOTHING for having an advanced degree.  I hold an AA (not in ems) and we have a few people with BS degrees that don't get any increase in pay.  No increase yet.... pretty soon they will get a nice increase when they get the RN and we loose yet more medics to nursing.


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## JJR512 (Dec 14, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> As well, look at the degree that is offered. AAS means applied science, not associate of science, which is quite different. I even seen a practical nursing degree the other day, which means a LPN with a applied associates in practical nursing, in other words, represents or = nothing. The degree has no value.


I'm going to have to take exception to this comment. In my experience, an AS degree means you have completed all of the general education and prerequisite coursework required for a BS degree in a particular field. An AS degree is a _transfer_ degree. An AS degree represents that you have gone to a less expensive community college for the appetizer to get that out of the way before going to a university for the main dish. In my opinion, it's the AS degree that means nothing.

An AAS degree (again, in my experience) represents you have taken a program of study that does not need as wide a variety of general education or prerequisites to fill up a whole two years, nor does the actual main topic of study require a full two years after general ed and prereqs.

When I refer to "my experience" I am speaking of the Maryland post-secondary education system. Here you can become a Paramedic with a BS, AAS, or certificate. The only difference between the AAS and certificate is that the certificate program does not include the general education classes. _The actual Paramedic classes and their prerequisites are the same classes either way._ Two people can sit side-by-side through all three semesters of Paramedic classes at a community college. One person will receive a certificate, the other an AAS; the latter got the degree because he/she took a Math, English, and Psychology classes first. Does that mean the latter student will be a better Paramedic than the person who just took the core coursework and got a certificate?

Regarding the BS vs. AAS degree, I do feel that the BS is probably superior due to the inclusion of some specialty topics and the expansion of the basic topic-related coursework required to fill up the extra two years over what the AAS offers. Had an AAS student gone through a BS program, he or she would _probably_ start off a better Paramedic. However, a few years' experience would probably start to even out the difference.


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## Ridryder911 (Dec 14, 2007)

JJR512 said:


> I'm going to have to take exception to this comment. In my experience, an AS degree means you have completed all of the general education and prerequisite coursework required for a BS degree in a particular field. An AS degree is a _transfer_ degree. An AS degree represents that you have gone to a less expensive community college for the appetizer to get that out of the way before going to a university for the main dish. In my opinion, it's the AS degree that means nothing.
> 
> An AAS degree (again, in my experience) represents you have taken a program of study that does not need as wide a variety of general education or prerequisites to fill up a whole two years, nor does the actual main topic of study require a full two years after general ed and prereqs.



Actually, you answered it. AAS menas you have NOT completed the whole prerequisite course to be transfered as a formal degree. That is why, AAS nurses have to complete core general education course work while working upon their BSN and those with a true ADN/A.S. does not. Both the AAS and AS have to complete the same core focus i.e Paramedic, nursing , R.T. etc..

Financial status of the college has nothing to do with the degree level, community college versus University. Rather, most universities do not offer AAS because they prefer you to finish a transferable degree (without taking additional or sometimes it is called 2+2 degree), with upper level 300 and 400 level courses sometimes included. 

Professionally, there is not much difference, but in academics there is. There is little things like that many do not undersstand, the same as a B.S. in nursing versus a BS of Nursing (BSN). Both are identical, except the B.S.N. Nursing division chairperson is in the university board or council, where the B.S. in nursing is not (usually size of school determines). Again, the same criteria and same requirements and yes the same courses, but one cannot place BSN after their name, rather B.S... It all has to do with academic policies ... semantics yes, but when filling out the paperwork for grad school, it is important.

R/r 911


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## Arkymedic (Dec 14, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> Not all Paramedic programs are created equally. For example, there are many that offer a certificate (whatever that means) to be able to apply for college credit, that may not be valid for all colleges and a valid "recognized degree.
> 
> I know of a Vo-tech paramedic program that acclaims to have courses that will transfer to a degree program. Part of the problem is the anatomy & physiology is included in the program. When initially started was taught by a RN with a M.S. degree, now taught by a Paramedic with no college experience in science, and the highest degree is H.S. Does one really think that receiving colleges will transfer their A & P? .... hmmm doctorate of science teaching the course vs. high school graduate.. what do you think?
> 
> ...


 
I fully agree here Rid. When I started my Paramedic program at the sister campus of Arkansas Tech Univ-Ozark CampusI was enrolled as a fulltime student at the junior level in a Bachelors Science Emerg Admin and Mgmt course at ATU in Russellville as well. When I finished the Paramedic course and received my AAS in Paramedic Technology, I went to transfer classes and NOTHING counts due to the fact that it is technical!!! My A and P will not count for A and P. My Life Span Development did not count for general psych. My clinical hours would not even count towards my intership requirement. All of this was through their own system too. Basically I have a f**king degree that is absolutely useless. Also, since I have it now and have to claim it as a degree for Federal financial aid, I now receive less financial aid because I have a f**ing AAS. DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE!!


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## JJR512 (Dec 14, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> Actually, you answered it. AAS menas you have NOT completed the whole prerequisite course to be transfered as a formal degree. That is why, AAS nurses have to complete core general education course work while working upon their BSN and those with a true ADN/A.S. does not. Both the AAS and AS have to complete the same core focus i.e Paramedic, nursing , R.T. etc..
> ...
> ... semantics yes, but when filling out the paperwork for grad school, it is important.


Ah, see, here the difference is made clear to me. I was examining this issue from a practical point of view, while you appear to be taking an academic point of view.

To someone who wants to get a job as an LPN, it doesn't matter if they get an AAS, an AS, or go to some trade school and get a certificate. They will get their credentials and get their job. It is in this sense that I maintain an AAS is _not_ worthless. It teaches the same essentials of being an LPN that any other kind of degree or certificate offers _as an LPN_. This same paragraph can be equally true if you replace every instance of "LPN" with "Paramedic".

If I understand you correctly now, you are saying that an AAS degree is worthless for transferring. On this, I agree. I can take the two-year AAS program at a community college and become a Paramedic, but if I later decide I want a BS degree as a Paramedic, I would have to take almost the entire four-year program (minus some of the general education classes that both have in common).

So yes, for someone who wants a higher degree, avoid AAS programs. If you just want to go to work as an LPN or Paramedic, an AAS or even a certificate is a valid option.


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