# Critical Care Paramedic



## michael150 (Mar 26, 2018)

Hey guys! 

Really short question for you. What classes should I take prior to starting or completing CCP? Could I take A&P concurrently to it? What do you think?!


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## Summit (Mar 26, 2018)

You should take A&P post-haste. I cannot imagine trying to understand critical care medicine without A&P.


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## michael150 (Mar 26, 2018)

Summit said:


> You should take A&P post-haste. I cannot imagine trying to understand critical care medicine without A&P.



I figured as much. Well, here’s my thing. The program I was going to apply to starts in August. I can start A/P1 during the summer but I won’t be able to do 2 until fall. Do you think I could understand it with only 1 course done?


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## VentMonkey (Mar 26, 2018)

Your profile says you’re from Omaha, and seeing how the CCP course starts in August I’m going to go out on a limb here and presume you’re referring to Creighton.

How long have you been a practicing paramedic, and more importantly, how long has it been since you’ve taken any sort of college courses? 

Are you familiar with the program at hand? They don’t require A&P, and I didn’t have a college-level A&P course under my belt before I went through it, so it’s not a dealbreaker. 

With all that said, everybody is different. Also, what are you hoping to gain from taking a CCP course? A patch? A CCP job? Both?


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## michael150 (Mar 26, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> Your profile says you’re from Omaha, and seeing how the CCP course starts in August I’m going to go out on a limb here and presume you’re referring to Creighton.
> 
> How long have you been a practicing paramedic, and more importantly, how long has it been since you’ve taken any sort of college courses?
> 
> ...



VentMonkey, you are correct. I am referring to Creighton’s program that starts in August in a hybrid format. I graduated medic school in December (not from Creighton) and have been working in a trauma center in Omaha. I’m in college level courses full time right now and will be for quite some time. They do not require A&P, or any other courses, for that matter but being in the healthcare field I think it’s important to know everything we can to serve our patients at the level we can. 

In regards to what I hope to gain, the answer is quite simple. Knowledge. I love this field (cheesy I know) and I want to be able to know what is going on with my patients. I haven’t officially decided on where I want to go with my medical career, be it nursing or medical school but if I went to nursing school and wound up in the ICU, on flight, CCT, or ER I think my knowledge as a medic or a CCP would be valuable. 

Thanks for any help and as much as this sounds corny and cheesy and I’m green, I know that I’m going to make healthcare my career. I just want to know what I can and help the way I want to in the capacity my patients need.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 26, 2018)

I don’t think anyone here on this forum will find what you’ve said as cheesy. It’s an excellent course, and even more so, an excellent critical care _paramedic_ course.

I went in with a little bit over a year’s worth of critical care paramedic experience, just under a decade as a paramedic, and still that same “thirst for knowledge” that you speak of.

I won’t beat a dead horse as I’ve touted Rick Erickson’s course on here multiple times before, but it definitely goes above and beyond for the serious paramedics looking to go more in-depth with their knowledge-base, and it also provokes clinical diagnoses and the thought processes at the next prehospital paramedic level.

I will say, don’t take the course lightly. I jokingly told Rick I found the course to be a boot camp for even seasoned paramedics. It was essentially like doing paramedic (didactic) school all over again without a full blown clinical/ internship.

Honestly? If I needed FP-C CE’s again I wouldn’t not consider doing it again. It is not “death by PowerPoint”.


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## michael150 (Mar 26, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> I don’t think anyone here on this forum will find what you’ve said as cheesy. It’s an excellent course, and even more so, an excellent critical care _paramedic_ course.
> 
> I went in with a little bit over a year’s worth of critical care paramedic experience, just under a decade as a paramedic, and still that same “thirst for knowledge” that you speak of.
> 
> ...



Do you think that I will be at a major disadvantage because I do not have the experience that someone like you had? I want to do well, I have a thirst for knowledge, and I feel like this course will help me be a better paramedic and provider. Did you do the course in the hybrid form or all in class? 

Thank you VentMonkey. I really appreciate the information and even you telling me that what I said wasn’t cheesy. I’m obviously a greenie in this field and this forum has definitely become my basis of gaining some knowledge before researching myself.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 26, 2018)

michael150 said:


> Do you think that I will be at a major disadvantage because I do not have the experience that someone like you had?


Not necessarily. Another thing I liked about the course was that there were providers with different levels of experience from all over the country, and from a multitude of different agencies.


michael150 said:


> Did you do the course in the hybrid form or all in class?


I’m nowhere near Omaha, so if by hybrid you mean online, then ya’ I did the hybrid course.

I met my classmates for the clinical portion (which is pass/ fail), and opted to do my ICU/CCU time at Creighton when it was still open. In hindsight, I had a blast.


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## michael150 (Mar 26, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> Not necessarily. Another thing I liked about the course was there were providers with different levels of experience from all ove the country, and from a multitude of different agencies.
> 
> I’m nowhere near Omaha, so if by hybrid you mean online, then ya.
> 
> I met my classmates for the clinical portion (which is pass/ fail), and opted to do my ICU/CCU time at Creighton when it was still open. In hindsight, I had a blast.



VentMonkey, thanks for information. I really do appreciate it. Do you think I should at least take anatomy part one before starting the course?


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## RocketMedic (Mar 27, 2018)

I'd recommend anatomy and physiology.


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## Colt45 (Mar 29, 2018)

I think A&P for this is a must.. I didn't know it wasn't a requirement to get into medic programs.. I have a hard time understanding how anyone could grasp most paramedic concepts without A&P. I'm glad I took it before my medic course but CCP has got you looking at lab values and other in depth medicine. You should have a solid foundation so you don't get overwhelmed. Just my 2 cents.


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## ParamagicFF (Mar 30, 2018)

I took A&P along with my paramedic coursework and it was very beneficial. I know many paramedics who have never taken general science coursework, and plenty of them are functional. That being said, there is a clear difference between medics who have a stronger science background and those who don't. The education enables you to more deeply understand pharmacology, and will definitely help with differentiating severity of ortho injuries to name a few benefits.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 30, 2018)

Last time I looked Creighton still required a 1-year experience minimum. OP, if you’re still under the 1-year requirement, then taking an A&P course seems like an easy choice.

And, if you’re that new to this field you probably have plenty of time to prepare for this course. I’m not going to tell you that you absolutely need it. 

Again, not having reviewed any serious A&P in over a decade didn’t seem to prohibit me from learning, grasping, or understanding the topics discussed at hand. But, I am not you and vice versa.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 1, 2018)

Ok. I give up. I have been looking for an answer to this question for an hour. I sent creighton an email four days ago with no response so far.

Is the creighton program presented online at specific times on specific days, or is the online portion completed at the students leaisure? Obviously there’s assignments and so forth that need to be competed on a schedule, but I’m specifically talking about the lectures.

Anybody know? Thanks?


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## VentMonkey (Apr 1, 2018)

@hometownmedic5, the online course's lectures are released on a weekly basis, and the projected timeline for both the in-person and online classes that are on their website is how long the course itself will run. So, it's not done at your leisure, per se.

Essentially, you're given a course start date then the first week will begin and you're assignments (along with the lecture/s) are given to you to be completed by a certain date before you can move on to the next week. If you begin to fall behind, your grade/ credit for that particular week, and overall class grade/ score will decline as well; IIRC, you need an 80% overall to pass the course. Each week should contain an article, discussion board, lecture, and exam on a specific critical care topic.

He also does (did) live discussions on topics that many newer providers may, or have struggle/d with (e.g., ventilator management, hemodynamics, etc.), but this all seemed to depend on how involved the class was overall, and in general.

PM me if this isn't a specific enough answer for you.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 1, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> @hometownmedic5, the online course's lectures are released on a weekly basis, and the projected timeline for both the in-person and online classes that are on their website is how long the course itself will run. So, it's not done at your leisure, per se.
> 
> Essentially, you're given a course start date then the first week will begin and you're assignments (along with the lecture/s) are given to you to be completed by a certain date before you can move on to the next week. If you begin to fall behind, your grade/ credit for that particular week, and overall class grade/ score will decline as well; IIRC, you need an 80% overall to pass the course. Each week should contain an article, discussion board, lecture, and exam on a specific critical care topic.
> 
> ...



I think we’re on the same page. So, on Monday, that weeks lecture presentations are posted, along with some assignments. The student needs to have viewed all the material and completed all assignments by Sunday night, but doesn’t need to be there specifically at this or that time?


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## VentMonkey (Apr 1, 2018)

hometownmedic5 said:


> The student needs to have viewed all the material and completed all assignments by Sunday night, but doesn’t need to be there specifically at this or that time?


Correct, though I don’t recall what day of the week specifically you have until, and/ or if it’s a week, week and a half, etc. The lectures are essentially all pre-recorded. 

You’ll also need to be involved with the discussion board. I believe it’s reply to at least to 2 other posters. This part I actually enjoyed quite a bit. They do grade on your replies, and the length of response that you go into as well.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 1, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> Correct, though I don’t recall what day of the week specifically you have until, and/ or if it’s a week, week and a half, etc. The lectures are essentially all pre-recorded.
> 
> You’ll also need to be involved with the discussion board. I believe it’s reply to at least to 2 other posters. This part I actually enjoyed quite a bit. They do grade on your replies, and the length of response that you go into as well.



As long as I can complete the lectures at two am in my underoos, thats all that matters. Thanks!


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## StCEMT (Apr 1, 2018)

@VentMonkey what was the clinical portion like? I've got a local one I am planning to attend late this year, but you've got me curious with your good marks about Creighton.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 1, 2018)

StCEMT said:


> @VentMonkey what was the clinical portion like?


3 days, 2 in the ICU and one in the CCU. They gave you the option to either do them there at their trauma center, or find one closer to you as long as you could get it approved through your program manager/ hospital site, and have the paperwork signed off on.

You can't get a certificate of completion, course credit, or CE without the clinical portion. Had the clinicals been any longer it would have felt like a paramedic school redux with fresh materials, and no field internship. They're pretty laid back though, and actually do leave themselves open to students, and former students.


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## michael150 (Apr 1, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> 3 days, 2 in the ICU and one in the CCU. They gave you the option to either do them there at their trauma center, or find one closer to you as long as you could get it approved through your program manager/ hospital site, and have the paperwork signed off on.
> 
> You can't get a certificate of completion, course credit, or CE without the clinical portion.



This may be insignificant but I know a couple of the students in the paramedic program there (not CCP) and they have to do ICU and CCU rotations as well. The thing is, they say when they go to the ICU they aren’t allowed to touch patients much less hang meds and be involved in patient care. VentMonkey, was this the case when you went through the program as well? 

My girlfriend is graduating from their BSN program shortly and it seems like the “Creighton” title holds a lot of weight. To me, that doesn’t matter, just that there is good education and I learn what I am supposed to.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 1, 2018)

michael150 said:


> This may be insignificant but I know a couple of the students in the paramedic program there (not CCP) and they have to do ICU and CCU rotations as well. The thing is, they say when they go to the ICU they aren’t allowed to touch patients much less hang meds and be involved in patient care. VentMonkey, was this the case when you went through the program as well?


No, not a whole of touching the patients in the ICU. I mostly made it a point to try and round with the surgical attendings, and ask questions when appropriate. I poked in on a couple of RT's and asked questions as well. I wasn't concerned with hanging gtts, or doing hands-on procedures (they tell you you're not going to do any invasive procedures beyond your expanded scope cadaver lab). I really just wanted to gain an in-depth clinical base, and I felt the program did an excellent job with that.

The charge nurse in the CCU seemed to think that I was a brand new paramedic who had never done things such as push meds, or be part of the RRT; he dragged me down to a code in med/ surg that was nothing more than a seizure, and was excited to show off his EZ-IO. By the end of the day I'd had about enough of him, however the nurses under him were all sweet, and made it a habit not to abuse my "student" status. When asked why the CCU? My instructor said mainly to follow them to, and sit in on cath lab procedures. I didn't go to cath lab once, but I've seen enough caths placed for my own liking. The coolest part of my CCU day was sitting in on anesthesia doing TEE.

As far as the title they hold...//shrugs//...honestly, I couldn't tell you. Not being from around there meant that it was a whole new--yay, uber-humid Summers--experience for me. Everyone overall was welcoming, and courteous. The surgical attendings I rounded with were all helpful, willing to explain, and obviously knowledgeable. Like anything it is what you make of it and how you approach the experience.

I will say, if you're going to do their course, you're planning on doing clinicals there, and it's scheduled to end around June, make sure to either book hotel reservations early or plan on making a commute from an outlying part of the city/ county. The CWS added a bit of a pickle when trying to book a hotel for the week I was there.


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## StCEMT (Apr 1, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> 3 days, 2 in the ICU and one in the CCU. They gave you the option to either do them there at their trauma center, or find one closer to you as long as you could get it approved through your program manager/ hospital site, and have the paperwork signed off on.



I could probably swing it with the hospital site. I'd just have to get in touch with my EMS liaison. That would just reduce it down to a couple days for the skills lab and I wouldn't mind making a small trip for that.

I think I could keep up with the reading. If something isn't clicking, I know plenty of people I could go to for help.


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## StCEMT (Apr 2, 2018)

Just realised the Creighton course closed two days ago, I'd have probably registered had I known sooner.

I am debating just doing the UMBC course in Maryland this summer.

Edit: After further looking, I think I'll pass on that.


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## michael150 (Apr 2, 2018)

StCEMT said:


> Just realised the Creighton course closed two days ago, I'd have probably registered had I known sooner.
> 
> I am debating just doing the UMBC course in Maryland this summer.
> 
> Edit: After further looking, I think I'll pass on that.



Why do you think you’re going to pass on it?


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## michael150 (Apr 2, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> No, not a whole of touching the patients in the ICU. I mostly made it a point to try and round with the surgical attendings, and ask questions when appropriate. I poked in on a couple of RT's and asked questions as well. I wasn't concerned with hanging gtts, or doing hands-on procedures (they tell you you're not going to do any invasive procedures beyond your expanded scope cadaver lab). I really just wanted to gain an in-depth clinical base, and I felt the program did an excellent job with that.
> 
> The charge nurse in the CCU seemed to think that I was a brand new paramedic who had never done things such as push meds, or be part of the RRT; he dragged me down to a code in med/ surg that was nothing more than a seizure, and was excited to show off his EZ-IO. By the end of the day I'd had about enough of him, however the nurses under him were all sweet, and made it a habit not to abuse my "student" status. When asked why the CCU? My instructor said mainly to follow them to, and sit in on cath lab procedures. I didn't go to cath lab once, but I've seen enough caths placed for my own liking. The coolest part of my CCU day was sitting in on anesthesia doing TEE.
> 
> ...



Well it seems like you had a pretty good experience minus the annoying charge RN! I have another question for you! Is it rigorous enough that it’s the only thing I should be in or do you think I can carry a college load as well?


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## VentMonkey (Apr 2, 2018)

michael150 said:


> Is it rigorous enough that it’s the only thing I should be in or do you think I can carry a college load as well?


Without knowing your own study habits, level of self-motivation, home life/ work like balance, I really can’t offer much.

My experience with it was one as a full-time ground CCT paramedic, (then) FT flight-paramedic-in-training, husband, and father who hadn’t done college-level coursework in ages and I did ok.

Again though, you do have to take it somewhat seriously. You’re held to deadlines, papers, assignments, finals etc.

Ultimately it all boils down to your level of time management and ambition. If you’ve done plenty of online college classes in the past you should be fine.


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## hometownmedic5 (Apr 3, 2018)

While I find it unlikely anybody would think ventmonkey was providing us with incorrect information, I had written to Creighton with the same question before posting it here and they responded confirming the information posted here, so in case anybody had the same question/concer as I did, it has been confirmed.


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## CANMAN (Apr 3, 2018)

StCEMT said:


> Just realised the Creighton course closed two days ago, I'd have probably registered had I known sooner.
> 
> I am debating just doing the UMBC course in Maryland this summer.
> 
> Edit: After further looking, I think I'll pass on that.



Why you passing? I will be instructing at both skills days again this year.


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## StCEMT (Apr 3, 2018)

CANMAN said:


> Why you passing? I will be instructing at both skills days again this year.


I've heard iffy things about my local one, which make UMBC and Creighton the next two options. I haven't seen great things about UMBC either in the reading I did last night. Creighton seems like a good in between. What I've read says it is a solid program, it is spaced out at a pace that is closer to what I'd prefer so I can actually go over the material in depth, and I wouldn't have to worry about the out of state logistics as much.

The intent isn't to get a quick cert out of the deal, so time isn't much of a priority.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 11, 2018)

@cruiseforever or @WestMetroMedic, any idea how this course works, or its overall layout:

https://www.hennepinhealthcare.org/...are-education/critical-care-provider-program/


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## FiremanMike (Apr 13, 2018)

Colt45 said:


> I think A&P for this is a must.. I didn't know it wasn't a requirement to get into medic programs.. I have a hard time understanding how anyone could grasp most paramedic concepts without A&P. I'm glad I took it before my medic course but CCP has got you looking at lab values and other in depth medicine. You should have a solid foundation so you don't get overwhelmed. Just my 2 cents.



I went to medic school before it was required.  Medic school was just different then and they intertwined the pertinent A&P topics within the paramedic curriculum.


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## cruiseforever (Apr 15, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> @cruiseforever or @WestMetroMedic, any idea how this course works, or its overall layout:
> 
> https://www.hennepinhealthcare.org/...are-education/critical-care-provider-program/



Sorry, I have not heard anything about it.


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## VentMonkey (Apr 15, 2018)

cruiseforever said:


> Sorry, I have not heard anything about it.


Well then, I guess an email is in order. It seems strikingly similar to the course that I took. The service itself is also somewhat intriguing.

I’ve also been enjoying the video samples they’ve posted on their website. Bonus: they use the same ventilator at their service as we do at ours.


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## cruiseforever (Apr 18, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> Well then, I guess an email is in order. It seems strikingly similar to the course that I took. The service itself is also somewhat intriguing.
> 
> I’ve also been enjoying the video samples they’ve posted on their website. Bonus: they use the same ventilator at their service as we do at ours.



The class does look interesting.  What website are you looking at where they are using the vent?  Life Link3?


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## VentMonkey (Apr 18, 2018)

cruiseforever said:


> The class does look interesting.  What website are you looking at where they are using the vent?  Life Link3?


https://www.lrems.com/critical-care-education


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## cruiseforever (Apr 19, 2018)

VentMonkey said:


> https://www.lrems.com/critical-care-education



Thank you.  I am not very familiar with that service.  We are at opposite ends of the Metro.


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