# Phoenix Medics Tests Google Glass



## MagicTyler (Nov 6, 2013)

Very boring video, but very cool to see this technology applied to the EMS world.

http://www.jems.com/video/news/arizona-medical-students-and-phoenix-med


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## dixie_flatline (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm not sure about the current version, but I can actually see this as very beneficial (at least to the administration).  You end up with video documentation of entire calls, plus whatever else the glass(es) can do as far as calculating med dosages or providing real-time info on calls and whatnot.  

In my day job doing cyber stuff, i could envision a system where this links up with Shock Trauma's TRU and gives them the paramedic-eye-view of the patient and scene.

Hell, on Grey's Anatomy they would probably talk a paramedic through a field thoracotomy with these things.


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 8, 2013)

Why would the hospital care to see what the patient looks like in the field?  And why would we waste the time to give a "live" video report when we could be either transporting or performing interventions?  If your verbal report can't get the job done and provide the hospital with an idea of what you're dealing with, then you just need to work on your reports.  

Also, I just can't see a nurse or doc wanting to waste their time watching you and your patient via those glasses.  Often they're busy enough that they hardly want to be bothered by radio reports, so having an added video component may in fact be unwelcome.


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 8, 2013)

dixie_flatline said:


> I'm not sure about the current version, but I can actually see this as very beneficial (at least to the administration).  You end up with video documentation of entire calls, plus whatever else the glass(es) can do as far as calculating med dosages or providing real-time info on calls and whatnot.



If admin wants us to video record every call I'm sure it's cheaper to just outfit us with the same cameras many police departments have started using.  

And I also can't justify the cost because they could help us "calculate med dosages".  We really don't do all that many calculations, and I've already got those memorized...


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## m0nster986 (Nov 8, 2013)

TheLocalMedic said:


> Why would the hospital care to see what the patient looks like in the field?  And why would we waste the time to give a "live" video report when we could be either transporting or performing interventions?  If your verbal report can't get the job done and provide the hospital with an idea of what you're dealing with, then you just need to work on your reports.
> 
> Also, I just can't see a nurse or doc wanting to waste their time watching you and your patient via those glasses.  Often they're busy enough that they hardly want to be bothered by radio reports, so having an added video component may in fact be unwelcome.



Do you realize how this may change the world of EMS? Paramedics will operate under an expanded scope of practice and consultation with physicians via live cam can reduce the amount of mistreatment/diagnosis; not to mention the ability to treat and release patients thus reducing the amount of patients and hospital stays, and ultimately freeing up hospitals for more critical patients.


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## chaz90 (Nov 8, 2013)

m0nster986 said:


> Do you realize how this may change the world of EMS? Paramedics will operate under an expanded scope of practice and consultation with physicians via live cam can reduce the amount of mistreatment/diagnosis; not to mention the ability to treat and release patients thus reducing the amount of patients and hospital stays, and ultimately freeing up hospitals for more critical patients.



You think ED physicians have so much free time on their hands while at work that they can hold our hands through every EMS call? Physician extenders are one thing, but expecting them to supervise every refusal, uncommon procedure, or strange presentation is an entirely different ball game.


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 8, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> You think ED physicians have so much free time on their hands while at work that they can hold our hands through every EMS call? Physician extenders are one thing, but expecting them to supervise every refusal, uncommon procedure, or strange presentation is an entirely different ball game.



Exactly.  And I feel secure enough in my ability to assess and treat a patient that I don't need someone else looking over my shoulder and telling me what to do.


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## STXmedic (Nov 8, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> You think ED physicians have so much free time on their hands while at work that they can hold our hands through every EMS call? Physician extenders are one thing, but expecting them to supervise every refusal, uncommon procedure, or strange presentation is an entirely different ball game.



I could see that being a good position for a mid-level; at least from a community paramedicine point of view. Some of the money saved from ER admissions could be put into a mid-level assisting community paramedics (or whatever you want to call them) in appropriately triaging certain patients to correct locations, or modifications/addendums to prescriptions. That could potentially help with some of the legal ramifications many people are concerned about in this up-and-coming branch of prehospital care.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 9, 2013)

*re*

That's all fine and dandy for 10 minute medics with no scope of practice.  You have to look at the bigger picture with medics in rural and suburban setting with 2+ hour transport with truly critical patients and absolutely no help but BLS volunteers who you just hope and prey remember CPR and wont be puking the entire transport and your BLS partner who is driving......

These will change EMS in the regard for sure.


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 10, 2013)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> That's all fine and dandy for 10 minute medics with no scope of practice.  You have to look at the bigger picture with medics in rural and suburban setting with 2+ hour transport with truly critical patients and absolutely no help but BLS volunteers who you just hope and prey remember CPR and wont be puking the entire transport and your BLS partner who is driving......
> 
> These will change EMS in the regard for sure.



I still don't see the benefit.  So you have a long transport…  So what?  Transporting longer doesn't suddenly make me incapable of treating a patient.  And how often do we really see something that we can't readily diagnose and treat?  Do you think a doc remotely viewing the patient will be any more capable of seeing something you haven't?  And if it's something truly uncommon, chances are we don't have the tools or medications available to properly treat it anyhow.


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## ffemt8978 (Nov 10, 2013)

How are they going to ensure that the videos don't get used inappropriately?  After all, we have such a great track record just taking photos on scene and making sure they don't get released inappropriately.

-_-


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 10, 2013)

I also think these will make excellent learning and QA tools. 

Real time video of intubations showing EXACTLY what the medic was able to see.  

And security should not be an issue as the initial price point of these is ~1500 so not everyone will have the base/comp connector. End of shift they get turned in for review with the employee never being given access to the info which is an easy security setting.

This should halt if not at least slow down the number of false accusations ( or prove them ) of misconduct with patients.  This will also capture assaults on EMS providers making it that much easier to prosecute. 

The use of these is almost endless.


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 10, 2013)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> The use of these is almost endless.



Yeah…  I'm not so sure.  Seems like an expensive waste of time to me.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 10, 2013)

No doubt it is pricey and likely will not be heavily adopted due to that.  I had a chance to play with these and the real time mapping feature is insane! Map overlay right in front of your eye.

I was seriously bummed I did not get into the first beta test of these, I'm in line for the second though.  Not through a service but through Google themselves.


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## ffemt8978 (Nov 10, 2013)

So for those of you that plan on trying these, how do you propose to obtain your patient's consent to record them?


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 10, 2013)

That's certainly a company policy issue. I do not recommend anyone use these unless they are company sponsored. Just like phones and cameras they can and will get confiscated if they contain evidence.


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## ffemt8978 (Nov 10, 2013)

DrankTheKoolaid said:


> That's certainly a company policy issue. I do not recommend anyone use these unless they are company sponsored. Just like phones and cameras they can and will get confiscated if they contain evidence.



In some places it is a legal issue...i.e., you can not record somebody without their consent.  I was just curious as to how companies were going to get around that; not to mention the plethora of questions it opens up to data retention and security, subpoena response, criminal evidence, etc...


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Nov 10, 2013)

Yes lots of kinks to work out before a major rollout


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## Flight-LP (Nov 10, 2013)

From a community Paramedic and CCT standpoint, I see great benefit in collaboration, education, and QA. For the run of the mill pre-hospital 911 service, I feel the cost is not justified nor as beneficial. 

Consent is simple, if you accept care and provide informed consent, you consent to being videotaped. Consents routinely include verbage along of the lines of "you agree to be monitored and or recorded". There is also the simple task of asking your patient and explaining the benefit. Be descriptive and thorough in obtaining informed consent and you are well covered.

Implied consent can be slightly grey in comparison, but again can be easily justified. Improving quality of care by not only having statistical data benchmarks, but also visual data can be a great feat in expanding EMS research. Teaching hospitals, medical schools, nursing schools, and EMS schools videotape patient care on a daily basis

I'm interested in seeing where these go.


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