# Florida Medics a Crucial Part of SWAT Teams



## VentMedic (Sep 15, 2009)

In the spirit of the Self Defense thread. 

*Caution: there are some dramatic statements in this article. *

*Florida Medics a Crucial Part of SWAT Teams*
http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=10448&siteSection=1



> These fire-rescue paramedics fight blazes, and pack heat.
> In Palm Beach
> 
> County, SWAT medics can double as police officers. They go through the police academy, carry a Glock handgun and wear paramilitary green uniforms with ballistic vests.
> ...


 


> At the Broward Sheriff's Office, SWAT medics were added in 2003 and are *trained in weapons use but are not licensed to carry a gun.*


 


> In Palm Beach County when there's a SWAT call, the medics go to their Sheriff's Office-issued unmarked car, *which has their firearm* and a 50-pound backpack of medical gear in the trunk. *The medics are not permitted to carry a gun while on fire-rescue duty.*


 


> "Firemen are always the good guys and the cops are the bad guys," he said with a laugh. "When I show up in a green SWAT uniform and tell someone I'm a paramedic, *they're a little more hesitant to open up and talk to you."*


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## firecoins (Sep 15, 2009)

> In Palm Beach County, SWAT medics can double as police officers. They go through the police academy, carry a Glock handgun and wear paramilitary green uniforms with ballistic vests.





> Though the medics are armed while on SWAT duty, their main job is still caring for the wounded.



So they are cops?  They carry guns while on duty as SWAT Medics.  



> The primary mission is to provide medical care, not to get involved with hands-on tactical operations," said Broward County sheriff's Assistant Fire-Rescue Chief Harris Bouchillon. "Their missions are separate."


Which makes we wonder whether having tactical medics is necessary if you have medics in a rig down the block.


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## LucidResq (Sep 15, 2009)

I've trained with SWAT and TEMS out here. We have the same kind of configuration, fire medics who are on call for SWAT missions. 

As someone who's played a victim multiple times for these medics in trainings, I do think they play an important role. As a GSW "victim", I went from being in the crossfire of an active shooting / hostage situation to receiving ALS level assessment and care in mere seconds, and was evacuated quickly while the SWAT officers continued on and focused on their job with all of their force. 

It also seemed beneficial to have someone of that medical training available to triage victims. 

Obviously their services are not utilized on a frequent basis, so it's nice that they are simply on call. Probably much more cost effective and practical to train medics in some LE tactics and outfit them with some gear rather than give the cops medical training and outfit them with medical equipment.


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## Hal9000 (Sep 15, 2009)

I've done a few SWAT calls.  Basically we got called out, staged, assigned a channel, and then we'd go in as told.  Only once were weapons still out and we had to help with one of the people that was "no longer armed."  I'm not comfortable being in situations like that as such a helpless unit.


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## cfrench (Sep 30, 2009)

""Quote:
The primary mission is to provide medical care, not to get involved with hands-on tactical operations," said Broward County sheriff's Assistant Fire-Rescue Chief Harris Bouchillon. "Their missions are separate."

""Which makes we wonder whether having tactical medics is necessary if you have medics in a rig down the block.""

Valid question, I relate TEMS to that of HAZ-MAT. EMS, at HAZ-MAT is going to be at most in the warm zone and really cant do much till the pt is deconed and in the cold zone. Tactical situations are much like that. The idea behind the development of tems is to have qualified medics already inserted in the hot and warm zone trained equipped to provide EMS till either the pt can be evacuated to the cold zone so traditional EMS can provide care or until the situation is secured and traditional EMS can come into the perimeter. This can shave minutes off the time to treatment for a potentially critcally wounded person. 

Probably the biggest role played is that of team 'trainer'. Many minor injuries come from the hours of required monthly training each team needs to stay certified. Team care also involves providing whatever it takes to keep my team in the fight. I carry a boatload of 'sick call' type OTC meds along with extra food and water.

The whole 'should the medic be armed subject' is a big can of complicated worms. Roughly half of the tems personnel in the US are armed at some level.


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## mycrofft (Sep 30, 2009)

*See the earlier LOAC/Geneva Convention thread.*

It is not ethical to take unarmed medics into a fire zone and tell them you will protect them. It is ethical, as it was with Green Berets, to make every team member something mre than a bandaid slinger, then have a member of the team train even higher as their organic "Doc".

So I'm in favor of trained fighters, not arming medics.
Vent, thanks for the article!


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## cfrench (Sep 30, 2009)

In the real world (CONUS) you cant have the guys trained up to CLS. They can be trained to use their IFAKS (Izzy, Cat, Quikclot etc). In most (if not all) the cases, unarmed medics stay with perimeter teams commonly at the last point of cover. This makes you safe and very near if SHTF. All TEMS personnel should at minimum be very familiar with all team weapons. Having unarmed TEMS has been working for years with major incidents I can think of. Would a sidearm make me feel a bit better? Yup, wont argue that. The concept of armed (non-LEO) medics is thornier than you think and can vary from state to state. The Maine Criminal Justice standards for swat type teams states that ALL armed team members be fully qualified FT LEOS (18 week academy trained and three month FTO ride along). Remember that the job description of a TEMS medic has fixing holes in bodies as a small section of the entire packet.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 30, 2009)

As a Medic, I'm a little torn by this... I'm supposed to "save lives" and not "take them". However, were I to be on a SWAT team, I might end up as an organic asset to that team. Perhaps not in the stack, perhaps not in a "warm zone" (to borrow from Hazmat)... but certainly primarily responsible for the safety/welfare of the team first.

Now, that being said, if you're going to put a medic in the stack, that medic had better be as well armed as the rest of the team... and as well trained as the rest of the team, and I'd expect that medic to function as a SWAT Team member first and medic second, AFTER the area has been secured. If the medic won't be armed, that medic has no business being anywhere in or near the entry stack...


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## cfrench (Oct 1, 2009)

Akulahawk said:


> Now, that being said, if you're going to put a medic in the stack, that medic had better be as well armed as the rest of the team... and as well trained as the rest of the team, and I'd expect that medic to function as a SWAT Team member first and medic second, AFTER the area has been secured. If the medic won't be armed, that medic has no business being anywhere in or near the entry stack...



I do not believe many teams are deploying unarmed medics in the actual entry team. They may start with them but usually get dropped at the last point of cover with at least one armed team member. In many cases they deploy with one of the perimeter teams so as to be near the building but still in a safe position (with armed team members).

You touch on one the issues with armed medics, "role confusion". The advantage of not being an entry team person is I can just concentrate on just doing the job they pay me to do. Cops shoot guns, I fix people. It makes it easier that way. I am very comfortable with the way we operate here. It has worked for five years so far. 

As I have said above, a sidearm would be a nice thing to have as an emergency tool but that is the way it is and I have full trust and faith in my officers to protect me


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## ah2388 (Oct 1, 2009)

cfrench said:


> I do not believe many teams are deploying unarmed medics in the actual entry team. They may start with them but usually get dropped at the last point of cover with at least one armed team member. In many cases they deploy with one of the perimeter teams so as to be near the building but still in a safe position (with armed team members).
> 
> You touch on one the issues with armed medics, "role confusion". The advantage of not being an entry team person is I can just concentrate on just doing the job they pay me to do. Cops shoot guns, I fix people. It makes it easier that way. I am very comfortable with the way we operate here. It has worked for five years so far.
> 
> As I have said above, a sidearm would be a nice thing to have as an emergency tool but that is the way it is and I have full trust and faith in my officers to protect me


Not sure if this is reliable or not, but I was told by a former Tac Medic that survival rate increases dramatically(>80%) if GSW and puncture vics receive advanced care within the first minute.


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## FLEMTP (Feb 7, 2010)

There are several Sheriff Depts in Michigan that have Sheriff Deputy Paramedics. Yes, they are trained LEO's, and thats is their full time job. They drive around in a specially equiped vehicle, basically a medic flycar. They take law enforcement calls and medical calls, they issue traffic tickets and ride in the ambulance on the way to the ER...its quite interesting.


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