# New York is a tough city to get work in.



## MattyRattlesnake (Nov 9, 2011)

Did anyone else have to start off volunteering just to get experience? 

I wasn't aware that the EMT field was so competitive. I am new to this, however I did see some combat in Afghanistan. However, that means absolutely nothing to any employer. 

C'mon people hire a vet, for f*ck's sake!!


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## mike1390 (Nov 9, 2011)

FDNY so you can claim vet points they will look highly at that.

Thanks for serving.


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## MattyRattlesnake (Nov 9, 2011)

You're welcome, 

The civil service test was held in September, I just missed it. 

I'm on the waiting list.

I have a date for the firefighter test however, I AM too old to get into academy, but I'll find a way around that.


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## RiderMedic (Nov 9, 2011)

There's North Shore LIJ but that's out in Syosset and the wait to get in can be long I hear, Presbyterian Hospital which is also good, New York Hospital of Queens, and there's also Nassau County Police Department Bureau of EMS. 

Just to name a couple of places to look into if you're interested.


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## MattyRattlesnake (Nov 9, 2011)

I appreciate the leads, the problem isn't lack of employment it's lack of experience. 

These hospital based services are nice but they're hard to get into. My wife works at Mt. Siani, and I can't get in there either.

I have applied to all of these hospitals, except the Nassau County, it's simply too far from me.


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## EM Education (Nov 9, 2011)

I think most of us that started in NYC EMS in the late 80's and 90's started off by volunteering. There are many private ambulance companies that often take on inexperienced EMTs.
Take a look at Jamaica Hospital/MEDYSYS they operate a private service as well as a 911 service perhaps it could be a jump point....good luck


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## MattyRattlesnake (Nov 9, 2011)

I'll try that thanks EM


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## 46Young (Nov 9, 2011)

I used to wrok for NS-LIJ until 2007 when I left NY. 

It's like that old commercial - How do I get a job without experience, and how do I get experience without a job? 

You'll have to do what the rest of us did - start your resume with an IFT company. Apply for FDNY EMS. Apply to every hospital you can. If you work for Transcare, you may be able to get in to their 911 division after paying your dues. When I left, most of the hospitals wanted at least six months NYC 911 experience before applying. Back in 2007, Jamaica Hosp. had an IFT division, so you could try starting there as well, and try to get into Jamaica, Brookdale, or Flushing's 911 dividsion.

You may have to become a medic before you'll get into a hospital. I did the NY Methodist program. They use (used?) MaMo, Presby, Transcare, and Jamaica units for rotations. You can netowork while you're in class. That and my NS-LIJ experience helped me get a per diem job there.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Find out where to apply for each hospital, and follow up with calls every few weeks. If you start work with a private, always keep a folder with updated resumes on the ambulance. You'll make contacts on the street, and they may offer to drop off a resume for you. 

BTW, NS-LIJ is very militant. One of my two cousins that work there left, and one of my former medic partners just finished our fire academy back in Oct. Others are trying hard to leave. Just keep that in the back of your head. the upside for NS-LIJ? They have a thriving IFT business that has contracts with numerous MD offices. From what I'm told, they run quite a few emergencies out of these places. They call NS rather than 911. So, an IFT shift can be more like a 911 shift instead of a dailysis derby. 

until then, it's a $10/hr IFT gig for you, unless you can land an ER Tech job. I would apply for those too.

BTW (again) if you want a good fire career, Fairfax County has an open enrollment period that ends on the 17th or 18th (can't recall). It doesn't open often. You could apply there, and if you get the call, you can work there in case FDNY doesn't come through. No age requirement, $50k/yr to start, 25 and out w/ a 2.8% multiplier, and a three year DROP.

Edit: Most employers don't care about volunteer experience, since it's not measurable, like a paid job is. For example, NS-LIJ had a five year volunteer = six month paid 911 experience conversion. The six months was the criteria at the time to qualify for 911 shifts, instead of having to do time in 100% IFT for a year before being cleared for 911.


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## Fish (Nov 10, 2011)

MattyRattlesnake said:


> Did anyone else have to start off volunteering just to get experience?
> 
> I wasn't aware that the EMT field was so competitive. I am new to this, however I did see some combat in Afghanistan. However, that means absolutely nothing to any employer.
> 
> C'mon people hire a vet, for f*ck's sake!!



Thanks for serving,

Jobs in the rust belt and in New York are getting hard to come by. Go to the sunny south or the western US if you want to become sought after. 

Typically, employers love Vets due to maturaty, life exerpeince, and responsibility.


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## MattyRattlesnake (Nov 10, 2011)

I'll be sure and do that 46, 

what's an IFT company?


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## RiderMedic (Nov 10, 2011)

MattyRattlesnake said:


> I'll be sure and do that 46,
> 
> what's an IFT company?



Inter-facility transport company. Hospital to hospital, dialysis, etc.


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## firecoins (Nov 11, 2011)

IFT company

Transcare (Brooklyn, Bronx, Westchester)
SeniorCare (Bronx)
Lifeline (Bronx)
Midwood (Brooklyn)
Citywide (Bronx)
North Shore,  which is not affiliated with North Shore LIJ (Queens)
Coling (Brooklyn)
First Response (Queens)
Hunter (Queens, Long Island)
Emergency Ambulance Service (Long Island)
Lifestar (Long Island, New Jersey)
Empress (Yonkers)


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## 46Young (Nov 11, 2011)

firecoins said:


> IFT company
> 
> Transcare (Brooklyn, Bronx, Westchester)
> SeniorCare (Bronx)
> ...



That sounds pretty comprehensive. NS-LIJ used to get complaint calls here and there from North Shore Ambulance (Based out of Corona, has (had?) the american Flag on the side of their bus I think), but they would quickly figure out that it was the IFT NS, not the Health System.


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## RyRy (Nov 17, 2011)

*Help!!!*

Does any one know, any agency in rockland county that's hirring emt b no experience?


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## firecoins (Nov 18, 2011)

RyRy said:


> Does any one know, any agency in rockland county that's hirring emt b no experience?



Rocland Mobile Care is all there is. Call them.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 18, 2011)

46Young said:


> That sounds pretty comprehensive. NS-LIJ used to get complaint calls here and there from North Shore Ambulance (Based out of Corona, has (had?) the american Flag on the side of their bus I think), but they would quickly figure out that it was the IFT NS, not the Health System.



Yea, they had the American Flag waving along the side of their bus.  That was the only thing nice about them though.  And their base in Corona was just as ghetto as their buses.  They moved up to a new location in College Point in 2010 I believe.  

46Young, did you actually work 46Y when it was still posted at the Hall of Science?  I was 46A 2008-2009, as wall as volunteered on Corona Vollies 94X.


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## 46Young (Nov 18, 2011)

northernnhmedic said:


> Yea, they had the American Flag waving along the side of their bus.  That was the only thing nice about them though.  And their base in Corona was just as ghetto as their buses.  They moved up to a new location in College Point in 2010 I believe.
> 
> 46Young, did you actually work 46Y when it was still posted at the Hall of Science?  I was 46A 2008-2009, as wall as volunteered on Corona Vollies 94X.



I moved out of state in Oct. 2007. Our CSL was National/Roosevelt. I worked Sun Tour 1 and Tues tour 1. My partners were Jim, the slim guy with a mustache and glasses, who looks like Ned Flanders from The Simpsons, and Kirk, the Jamaican dude who commutes from Connecticut. I also used to work with Dennis, the short but husky Puerto Rican. He moved to PA, and works FT over there for Suburban EMS in the Lehigh Valley area. He might still pick up 46Y tours, I don't know. 

When I worked Saturday nights with Jim, we used to invite Corona VAC members to jump on with us for txp whenever they wanted, especially the new members. 

If the Chimchurri van is still in business on Rossevelt between 108th st and 111th (or somewhere close to that), definitely hit it up. We used to call in our orders and pick them up to cut the line, and it was convenient that they were open all night.

Were you around in 2007 or earlier?


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## emtwacker710 (Nov 19, 2011)

I actually got offered a job there as an EMT while I was still in medic school, I turned it down to finish medic school, caught a lot of crap from people I know for that one, but figured my medic can get me further...


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## Scott33 (Nov 19, 2011)

46Young said:


> My partners were Jim, the slim guy with a mustache and glasses



Nice guy, no EMS ego about him.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 19, 2011)

46Young said:


> I moved out of state in Oct. 2007. Our CSL was National/Roosevelt. I worked Sun Tour 1 and Tues tour 1. My partners were Jim, the slim guy with a mustache and glasses, who looks like Ned Flanders from The Simpsons, and Kirk, the Jamaican dude who commutes from Connecticut. I also used to work with Dennis, the short but husky Puerto Rican. He moved to PA, and works FT over there for Suburban EMS in the Lehigh Valley area. He might still pick up 46Y tours, I don't know.
> 
> When I worked Saturday nights with Jim, we used to invite Corona VAC members to jump on with us for txp whenever they wanted, especially the new members.
> 
> ...



I entered the academy in October 2007, and hit the streets on 46B that December.  Got moved onto 46A in March '08, until I entered medic school in 2009.  I remember Jim, but the other guys dont sound familar.  I loved backing him up when I was working there on either adam or x-ray, particularly when Yvette was working with him.  

Ive been to that chimi truck a couple times, but I was a bigger fan of the taco van at 104/Roose.  Then again there was Mamas of Corona on 104, and the Lemon Ice King of Corona.  I left NY to go back to NH about a year ago, but I still miss the neighborhood and buffing calls with Corona Vollies.


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

emtwacker710 said:


> I actually got offered a job there as an EMT while I was still in medic school, I turned it down to finish medic school, caught a lot of crap from people I know for that one, but figured my medic can get me further...



Good choice. Too bad you couldn't defer to a later hiring date, like you can do in other places. Make sure that you get your NR-P. You'll always have the option of moving out of state to work if you get tired of all the NY BS (cost of living, quality of life, traffic, realizing that you'll retire poor, etc.)


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

Scott33 said:


> Nice guy, no EMS ego about him.



I miss working with him. Did you take the CCP or FP-C class with him?


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

northernnhmedic said:


> I entered the academy in October 2007, and hit the streets on 46B that December.  Got moved onto 46A in March '08, until I entered medic school in 2009.  I remember Jim, but the other guys dont sound familar.  I loved backing him up when I was working there on either adam or x-ray, particularly when Yvette was working with him.
> 
> Ive been to that chimi truck a couple times, but I was a bigger fan of the taco van at 104/Roose.  Then again there was Mamas of Corona on 104, and the Lemon Ice King of Corona.  I left NY to go back to NH about a year ago, but I still miss the neighborhood and buffing calls with Corona Vollies.



We missed each other by a couple of months. I know little Yvette too. 

I miss the job too. You have to see these all ALS systems. As a medic, you're running everything and anything, and as an EMT, they don't teach you anything, you're just a skills monkey, and are not generally allowed to exercise any indepandent thinking. I see maybe 2-3 good jobs a month if I'm lucky. The working conditions and quality of life are much better here.

Oh, you might also know Serge F. He's a tall Ukraninan dude. IDK what tour he worked on 46Y. He finished our fire academy a couple of months ago. Like the other four of us from N. Shore who left for here, he said that he got tired of sitting on street corners for not enough money and no career ladder to speak of.

Why did you leave?


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## Scott33 (Nov 20, 2011)

46Young said:


> I miss working with him. Did you take the CCP or FP-C class with him?



I think it was the PNCCT a couple of years back.


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

Scott33 said:


> I think it was the PNCCT a couple of years back.



I remember when he took it. I had a hook with him for PHI based in northern VA, but it's too far for him to travel. They got rid of their per diems a while ago, the ones that couldn't commit to full time. Later on, they realized that they couldn't fill their slots unless they had per diem people. So, they're hiring per diems again.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 20, 2011)

46Young said:


> Why did you leave?



I left because I was getting sick of the city life.  I was born in raised in small town USA, and moved to Bayside for the job when I was 19.  I thought it would be this big great thing, so on and so forth.  I enjoyed working down there, both as an EMT and a medic, and I made some great friends that I go to visit when I can.  But the city life was getting to me for the worse, and I realized I needed to get out of dodge, and fast.  So I found a gig back in NH and moved back home.  I miss the urban EMS environment, particularly working the NYC 911 system.  In hindsight, I should have found a mutual partner, done the double/double/single and commuted back and forth.


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

northernnhmedic said:


> I left because I was getting sick of the city life.  I was born in raised in small town USA, and moved to Bayside for the job when I was 19.  I thought it would be this big great thing, so on and so forth.  I enjoyed working down there, both as an EMT and a medic, and I made some great friends that I go to visit when I can.  But the city life was getting to me for the worse, and I realized I needed to get out of dodge, and fast.  So I found a gig back in NH and moved back home.  I miss the urban EMS environment, particularly working the NYC 911 system.  In hindsight, I should have found a mutual partner, done the double/double/single and commuted back and forth.



Nah, the traffic, tolls, and fuel costs would make it not worth it, especially on a FDNY EMS salary. Factor in mandations and if your mutual partner changes, and you're screwed. 

You would have been better off applying as a per diem for one of the hospitals. I would do that right now if I was single. EMS in Virginia is not very challenging.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 20, 2011)

I realize that now.  It would have been barely do-able.  As much as i have to work 80 hour weeks now, im enjoying it, and Im happier than I was down there.  I tried to commuting to and from Manchester (NHs largest city with approximately 120,000 people and 2 hours from me) for about 6 months, but even that got old, so im stuck working per-diem at a few squads up here til a full time slot opens up.


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## abckidsmom (Nov 20, 2011)

46Young said:


> EMS in Virginia is not very challenging.



Hey!WTH?


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## usalsfyre (Nov 20, 2011)

46Young said:


> EMS in *Northern* Virginia is not very challenging.


Fixed that for you. I challenge you to go out to the Warren/Page County line on a night with no HEMS available and run a sick trauma patient....

It's like anywhere else, some places it's challenging others not so much.


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## abckidsmom (Nov 20, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Fixed that for you. I challenge you to go out to the Warren/Page County line on a night with no HEMS available and run a sick trauma patient....
> 
> It's like anywhere else, some places it's challenging others not so much.



Put your station anywhere that's an hour from the hospital, and you bump into that problem all the time.  I had a sick asthma kid a couple of weeks ago that I had long enough to see the mag help him.  Very fun, rural EMS.


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Hey!WTH?



I'm referring to the frequency of true emergencies. In NYC, even though the hospitals were very close, we still needed to work the patients in their apartments, since getting them outside could take 5-10 minutes depending on logistics (we were typicaly by ourselves) and having to do walkups of several flights, having to make our way through the projects, Co-ops, etc. Typically in the poorer neighborhoods, the pt is already behind the 8-ball for a good while before we even get there, so there's no getting them out to the bus and then going to work.

We also saw a much greater frequency of high acuity patients. What you're walking into and what was called in to 911 can be two different things, but with FDNY EMT's and medics as call takers, the accuracy is much better than the non EMS EMD cookbook call takers you find elsewhere. In the NYC 911 system, medics don't get dispatched for a single Sz, abd pain, sick jobs, the intox, a diabetic that can follow commands, major or minor injuries, MVA's unless their pinned or are a multitrauma, CVA's, EDP's, or unknowns such as medical alarms. We're only running cardiac arrests, diff breathers, cardiac conditions, the unconscious, inbleeds, stat ep, multitraumas, and that's about it. As such, my number of pt contacts that are truly sick is much greater than I've seen in VA. Much of the time, if I was called for a diff breather, it's an APE full up, or a tight asthmatic. The cardiac is someone sweating bullets and clutching their chest. It would take me 10-12 years to get the experience I had in two years as a medic in NY.

I understand that with long txp times it can be cowboy time, but I got a taste of that in South Carolina (Awendaw, McClellanville, Kiawah, John's Island), and I still found urban EMS in a system that eliminates the less acute calls to be much more stimulating and challenging.

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I feel that a medic's time is wasted running MVA's, injuries (call for us if pain management is needed), sick jobs, EDP's drunks, etc. These are good calls for basics to gain experience on, along with jobs where you're backing up medics. My three years as BLS in NYC were a great learning experience.

I'm a big advocate of a tiered system, obviously. I feel sorry for medic students here who can go through four or five 12 hour ambulance ride-a-longs and not see a single pt that they can go to work on. I used to see 2-4 a day, and drop at least a tube a week, most of the time. What are you learning in this environment? How to throw on a monitor, 12 lead, and pulse ox? The learning curve for field medics is equally slow. 10-15 monitor/IV/O2 pts to every sick one isn't going to allow you to get good very quickly. Maybe 5% of my calls are somehting that I can sink my teeth into. Perhaps this is why my county likes to barf 3-4 medics on most calls. Collectively, someone will know what to do.

This is why I say that EMS here is not challenging. 90% of my patients are V.O.M.I.T (Vitals, O2, Monitor, IV, Txp) at best. Although, a guy I work with is a per diem medic in Morgan County WV, and he says he runs bad traumas, heroin OD's, etc all the time, so that may be an option for me if I miss running real jobs. Still have to run a bunch of BLS, though.

It's just that EMS here bores me to tears. Great work environment, but we're really not doing much of anything past good customer service most of the time. It's a good career, but not very stimulating.


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Fixed that for you. I challenge you to go out to the Warren/Page County line on a night with no HEMS available and run a sick trauma patient....
> 
> It's like anywhere else, some places it's challenging others not so much.



See my last post. I remember you saying asomething about mixing "street dobutamine" by juggling dopa and ntg. That's quite creative, and those long distance train wercks can be both stimulating and challenging. But, how many of those are you running on a regular basis? We can fly them out if necessary, depending on the weather.


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## 46Young (Nov 20, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Put your station anywhere that's an hour from the hospital, and you bump into that problem all the time.  I had a sick asthma kid a couple of weeks ago that I had long enough to see the mag help him.  Very fun, rural EMS.



I understand. I had that type of environment in Charleston County.

In NYC, some buildings are grandfathered in where they don't have to have elevators even though it's a six floor walkup. Some projects are maze-like. Elevartors don't always work, either. Even though the closest appropriate hospital is 5-10 minutes away, from pt contact to arrival at the ED can be 30-40 mins or more.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 20, 2011)

Wow 46Young, you did hit the nail on the head. Granted i was only in FDNY-EMS for 3 years, i do feel the same way. When i worked in Queens, my volume was higher, and the majoroty of it was truly sick patients. Now that Im back in NH, im wishing I was back in an urban EMS environment. Granted people are less likely to call for B.S. and more likely to call for Oh.S., there is still nothing else like it. Here im doing everything, even if it is minor, which I dont mind, after all, I am happy doing the job i love, but I dont feel challenged here.  Not like in NYC where i was working at least 1 arrest a week, and cardiacs and diffbreathers all day long. Dont get me wrong, rural EMS has challenges of its own, but urban EMS is its own beast that can be just as challenging as any other EMS Environment.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh and 46Young, medics on traumas there?  Until the advent of "RescueMedics", and even after the RMs came around, ALS was never much of  a thought on most traumas. Unless it came in as an uncon or an arrest, it was my experience that medics didnt roll on traumas, and the BLS didnt call for medics as much as they did when I left.


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## firecoins (Nov 20, 2011)

I can attest that in NYC you can spend alot of time with your patients when you must "extricate" them from their apartment and its a 6 story walk up.


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## Tigger (Nov 21, 2011)

firecoins said:


> I can attest that in NYC you can spend alot of time with your patients when you must "extricate" them from their apartment and its a 6 story walk up.



Now if I could only get the bosses to understand that this why on-scene times are so long on 911 calls in Boston. First you have to stabilize the patient enough to move them, and then figure out how to move them. If we're going to start treatment onscene, we might as well just get it all done at once, and just monitor/adjust on the way to the hospital.

Are triple deckers common in NYC? Those are the buildings I hate the most, along with buildings with elevators that are so small that you still have to use the stairchair to get to street level.


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## 46Young (Nov 22, 2011)

northernnhmedic said:


> Oh and 46Young, medics on traumas there?  Until the advent of "RescueMedics", and even after the RMs came around, ALS was never much of  a thought on most traumas. Unless it came in as an uncon or an arrest, it was my experience that medics didnt roll on traumas, and the BLS didnt call for medics as much as they did when I left.



Where I work now, it's a fire based dual role system. We have ALS engines back us up on many calls. The dispatchers are typically not EMT's, just lay people. They go by the EMD cookbook, and cannot further clarify the situation with questions outside of the script. As such, most of our calls are typed as ALS. For example, someone could have dropped a bowling ball on their foot. The dispatcher will ask if they were short of breath, and the caller may answer yes, since the pain made them hyperventilate for a little while. Boom! It's now ALS for toe pain. All of our buses are ALS except for only four BLS. We have 15 double medic units, and 22 "one and one" medic units. We run pretty much everything.

Back in the days of Queens West, we weren't dispatched on virtually any traumas. The BLS would call for ALS if it made sense, but we would buff anything that sounded good. We also listened to the PD frequencies, so we would get the jump on a good shot, stab, ped struck, etc. and get "flagged" for it as we "happened to drive by." You know how it is.


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## 46Young (Nov 22, 2011)

firecoins said:


> I can attest that in NYC you can spend alot of time with your patients when you must "extricate" them from their apartment and its a 6 story walk up.



I had to be broken of that mindset after I moved out of the city. Here, it's quick vitals, O2, strip, pulse ox, and do the rest in the bus. It's easy to do when you have six people and you can run the cot right into the house with maybe two steps to get over, with the pt on the first floor. These patients tend to take better care of themselves, have insurance, so they're not waiting until they're practically dead to call us, and walking them from the living room to the cot that's in the front hallway is usually not a problem. If I tried that with the "real" ALS patients I was used to in Queens and Brooklyn, there's a real chance they will be dead before I make it to the bus. 

Basically, in an urban environment, in particular one with a poor socioecnomic clientele, it's do everything in the house, get to the bus, and leave right away. In other systems, the mindest is to get the pt into the bus real quick since it's a more stable environment, do a few things onscene, then leave (or leave right away if it's a long txp). It helps here that probably 85-90% of our patients would have had the same outcome whether they called us, or went to the MD/ED via POV. I see more sick people with my IFT per diem job than I do with 911 it would seem.

Well, it's easy money I suppose.


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## 46Young (Nov 22, 2011)

Tigger said:


> Now if I could only get the bosses to understand that this why on-scene times are so long on 911 calls in Boston. First you have to stabilize the patient enough to move them, and then figure out how to move them. If we're going to start treatment onscene, we might as well just get it all done at once, and just monitor/adjust on the way to the hospital.
> 
> Are triple deckers common in NYC? Those are the buildings I hate the most, along with buildings with elevators that are so small that you still have to use the stairchair to get to street level.



I don't remember any triple deckers. The 2-3 story row homes are much more common in NY. It's also a PITA to navigate through some of the projects. You're trying not to run over anyone, you have to deal with elevators that may or may not work, or trying not to get lost in the basement labyrinth of hallways underneath the building with doors that lock behind you. Sometimes we find would find an exit, any exit at that point, and have no clue what side of the building we came out of or where our bus was. 

Taking a boarded/collared elderly FDGB in those tight elevators was always interesting. I used to creat stirrups out of cravets to keep the feet and legs from sliding downward. The C-collar would choke them out as well. We have the spider straps here. They keep you pretty locked in.


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## northernnhmedic (Nov 22, 2011)

How about the subway stations at Broadway/Roose,  71/Queens Blvd, or at Queens/Woodhaven?  You have to remember which way you went in so you dont come above ground 3 blocks from your bus...


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## AngryBarryFTW (Dec 7, 2011)

...I want to work for ems in NYC =o/


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## alphamedic (Dec 26, 2011)

Inter facility transport


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## alphamedic (Dec 26, 2011)

Why so angry Barry. Alot of people want to work EMS in the City,been there done that got the t-shirt. Apply every where and who knows you just might get lucky.


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## MattyRattlesnake (Mar 14, 2012)

Four months later and still not a god damn thing. 

I think I'll give this :censored::censored::censored::censored: up and go back to schlepping in a :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing restaurant.


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## DrParasite (Mar 14, 2012)

try crossing the GWB, OuterBridge, Goethals, or Lincoln tunnel.  you will get paid more and there are more jobs.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2012)

at $12 a pop, it becomes difficult crossing it.


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## MattyRattlesnake (Mar 21, 2012)

Firecoins, you got that right.


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