# Which paramedic school to go to in NY/NJ



## Munnugles (Apr 18, 2010)

Hey all, I am looking at different schools in my area for EMT-B/P programs to take and I am not sure which school would be better.  I am looking at these Community Colleges: Rockland CC (NY 79 credits), Hudson County CC (NJ 63 credits), Borough of Manhattan CC (NY 61 credits), and LaGuardia CC (NY 60 credits).

I live in Bergen County NJ, I do not have EMT-B done yet and I do not know if I will be taking it here in NJ or through a CC. I would like to know some info about some of these CC's if anyone knows about them and what would be my best bet. Do any of them have job placement/help finding a job. Do any colleges have NREMT-P test? Do they all have internships? Would I be better off getting a paramedic certificate instead of degree and get a degree in something else? And also anyone know why Rockland CC is almost 20 credits more than the others.

If you also know of any other schools in my area post them up as well. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Turner (Apr 18, 2010)

Go take emt-b and see if you like it. I live in bergen county and I am going to hudson bc bergen will eat there out of county fees


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## MrBrown (Apr 19, 2010)

A search tells me only Borough of Manhattan CC is an accredited Paramedic program by CoAEMSP


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## Munnugles (Apr 19, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> A search tells me only Borough of Manhattan CC is an accredited Paramedic program by CoAEMSP



Sorry... but what is CoAEMSP supposed to mean in general. i googled it and found it to be the accredited program. but im not sure what the difference between that and something that is not accredited.


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## MrBrown (Apr 19, 2010)

Somebody in the US can point more specifically than I however I believe it's a quality assurance process.

Notice how most of the programs accredited by CoAEMSP are associated with a college and offer a degree while patch factories are not accredited?

Of interest is that the 24 week Dallas-Fire Rescue Paramedic mill is accredited? Hmmmm :unsure:


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## firecoins (Apr 19, 2010)

Munnugles said:


> Hey all, I am looking at different schools in my area for EMT-B/P programs to take and I am not sure which school would be better.  I am looking at these Community Colleges: Rockland CC (NY 79 credits), Hudson County CC (NJ 63 credits), Borough of Manhattan CC (NY 61 credits), and LaGuardia CC (NY 60 credits).
> 
> I live in Bergen County NJ, I do not have EMT-B done yet and I do not know if I will be taking it here in NJ or through a CC. I would like to know some info about some of these CC's if anyone knows about them and what would be my best bet. Do any of them have job placement/help finding a job. Do any colleges have NREMT-P test? Do they all have internships? Would I be better off getting a paramedic certificate instead of degree and get a degree in something else? And also anyone know why Rockland CC is almost 20 credits more than the others.
> 
> ...


I live in Rockland. I suggest Rockland as I trained in Manhattan. ( My program just closed.)  Going into Manhattan will eat up lots of time and money with traffic, gas,tolls or even the mass commute.  

That being said BMCC and LaGuardia are great programs.

As for being BMCC being the only accredited program, there is not enough distiction between the NY programs to mean very much.  All of the programs teach the same exact thing in NY state as NY state regulates it.  None of the employers in NY or NJ cares if the program is accredited. a communitty college or a certificate program.


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## EMSLaw (Apr 19, 2010)

Nor are any of New Jersey's programs accredited.  Remember, too, that in NJ you will need to be sponsored by a MICU project for your clinicals.  Which isn't really that hard - you usually apply for clinical sponsorship along with the medic program, and if you get one, you get the other.  

If you want to work in NY, I'd say go to a NY program.  If you want to work in NJ, go to a NJ program.  If you don't care, I'm sure either is fine.  NY, I think, takes about a year full-time, while most NJ programs are structured 2 years part-time.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 19, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> Somebody in the US can point more specifically than I however I believe it's a quality assurance process.
> 
> Notice how most of the programs accredited by CoAEMSP are associated with a college and offer a degree while patch factories are not accredited?
> 
> Of interest is that the 24 week Dallas-Fire Rescue Paramedic mill is accredited? Hmmmm :unsure:




The difference is that if the program is accredited, they have met the minimum standards of education, expertise in instruction and clinical experiences to produce a well rounded entry level paramedic and they have the backing of the said accrediting agency.

The point is that EMS as a profession has goals to elevate it's practitioners to the status of medical professionals, rather than merely - technicians.  

Now then... you have until january 1st 2013 to enroll in a paramedic program of your choice, after that date, all schools must be accredited in order for its graduates to be eligible for the NR.  I don't know if that will be binding to all of the states, but that is the plan - a minimum standard of professionalism for all entry level licensees.  

Nursing is definitely that way, you cannot sit for licensure examination without having completed an accredited program.

If you can't think of the benefits of this type of regulation let me give you a few examples.

1) Elevated status among other medical professional fields / Esteem in your knowledge and skill set.
2) Pay commensurate with work load and education
3) All entry level professionals will be learning the equivalent skills and information

Maybe my examples are not of any value to you.  As I said the time is coming when all paramedics will have to attend an accredited institution, these next few years are going to be the closing of the loophole.


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## firecoins (Apr 19, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> The difference is that if the program is accredited, they have met the minimum standards of education, expertise in instruction and clinical experiences to produce a well rounded entry level paramedic and they have the backing of the said accrediting agency.


There is no difference in the NY/NJ area. NY requires certain minimum standards of all NY programs.  



> The point is that EMS as a profession has goals to elevate it's practitioners to the status of medical professionals, rather than merely - technicians.


I guess.  However the medical professionals outside of emergency medicine do not seem to make any distinction between BLS and ALS much less which ALS providers went to BMCC versus everyother medic program in NY.



> Now then... you have until january 1st 2013 to enroll in a paramedic program of your choice, after that date, all schools must be accredited in order for its graduates to be eligible for the NR.  I don't know if that will be binding to all of the states, but that is the plan - a minimum standard of professionalism for all entry level licensees.


 NYS is not an NR state.




> 1) Elevated status among other medical professional fields / Esteem in your knowledge and skill set.


There is no difference between BMCC graduates and every other NY program other than they filed paperwork.



> 2) Pay commensurate with work load and education


Employers in NY do not care. There is not pay difference.  I have a b.a. I do not get paid higher for having that.  I am either a certified medic or I am not.



> 3) All entry level professionals will be learning the equivalent skills and information


All NY medic programs teach the same skills.

The difference between BMCC and the other programs.....paperwork.


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## Munnugles (Apr 19, 2010)

So lets say I do go to a non-accredited school. In the long run of things, what would be a major difference if i was to go to the accredited school. Also lets say i get NREMT-P and I move out of state to like VA, NC, SC, FL, AZ, TX or CA for instance for work, what would being accredited do for me as opposed to non-accredited.  In the long run this is for firefighting also but want to get the degree in paramedic studies/ems studies instead of going with fire science studies, unless some think otherwise. I do want to be a good medic as well.


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## firecoins (Apr 19, 2010)

deleted.


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## 46Young (Apr 19, 2010)

firecoins said:


> I live in Rockland. I suggest Rockland as I trained in Manhattan. ( My program just closed.)  Going into Manhattan will eat up lots of time and money with traffic, gas,tolls or even the mass commute.
> 
> That being said BMCC and LaGuardia are great programs.
> 
> As for being BMCC being the only accredited program, there is not enough distiction between the NY programs to mean very much.  All of the programs teach the same exact thing in NY state as NY state regulates it.  None of the employers in NY or NJ cares if the program is accredited. a communitty college or a certificate program.



I was told, that after having succesfully completing a medic program and certifying in NYS as such, if we let our cert lapse, all we'll ever have to do is take a challenge refresher to recert. Is this what you've heard as well?


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 19, 2010)

firecoins said:


> There is no difference in the NY/NJ area. NY requires certain minimum standards of all NY programs.
> 
> *I guess.  However the medical professionals outside of emergency medicine do not seem to make any distinction between BLS and ALS much less which ALS providers went to BMCC versus everyother medic program in NY.
> * And Here you make my point excellently.
> ...



We are not having the same conversation.  

The point I meant to convey is that eventually all schools will have to be accredited, I also stated that I wasn't sure if all states would be made to comply with this decision.

You can champion your individual state, or the status quo as much as you want, until the profession of EMS is elevated, my RN will still be seen as a higher level of care... deservedly or not.


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## Munnugles (Apr 19, 2010)

So in the end will it matter for me to go to an non-accredited college (RCC) and get my NR if i want to work out of state? and does anyone have info on any of these schools.. good or bad...


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 19, 2010)

What firecoins said is that all schools in your area are equivalent.

What I said is that if you don't start medic school by 1/1/2013, you will be required to have attended an accredited program to work in a national registry state.


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## Munnugles (Apr 20, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> What firecoins said is that all schools in your area are equivalent.
> 
> What I said is that if you don't start medic school by 1/1/2013, you will be required to have attended an accredited program to work in a national registry state.



Ok thanks. I am most likely going to check out RCC on Wed. and talk to the coordinator.  Is there any specific questions i should ask him? Should i ask about the internships and affiliations? should i ask if i should try to get a PT job as an EMT-B up in the schools area (not sure what they have up there but i know almost every Ambulance Corp in my area is Vollie except for the hospitals which need 2+ years experience) while going to school and if they know of any places with jobs? I would like to have a job and get experience at the same time.

These are the courses: http://www.sunyrockland.edu/academics/degrees/a-a-s-degrees/emergency-medical-services

anything i should ask specifically about the courses?

also i was wondering should if anyone knows if i take my EMT-B in NYS what would i have to do to transfer it to NJ and vice versa.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

46Young said:


> I was told, that after having succesfully completing a medic program and certifying in NYS as such, if we let our cert lapse, all we'll ever have to do is take a challenge refresher to recert. Is this what you've heard as well?



I don't know bout that.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

Munnugles said:


> So in the end will it matter for me to go to an non-accredited college (RCC) and get my NR if i want to work out of state? and does anyone have info on any of these schools.. good or bad...



Right now completing RCC program will allow you to test for the NR. Alot of their students work in New Jersey. 

Most if not all the Community Colleges in this area teach pretty much the same thing including BMCC.  There is no apparrent difference other than one is accredited and others aren't.  BMCC is a good program.  So are many others. BMCC is not harder to get into. You don't start off at a higher salary graduating from BMCC. If you graduate BMCC a good or bad medic, you would the same at RCC or Laguardia.  

While becoming accredited looks good on paper, it won't magically make being a paramedic respected. Its no quick fix.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> You can champion your individual state, or the status quo as much as you want, until the profession of EMS is elevated, my RN will still be seen as a higher level of care... deservedly or not.



I am not a champion of the so called status quo. I simply stating that a piece of paper saying one community college is "accredited" while others lack that paper will not make paramedics accepted by the rest of the medical community. The BMCC program is not signifactly different from the other community college programs or vice versa.  I am sure if they fill out the paperwork, they will be accredited. It will not magically produce better medics. It will not make paramedics higher or lower care than RNs. Whatever problems exist now, will exist than too.


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## Munnugles (Apr 20, 2010)

firecoins said:


> Right now completing RCC program will allow you to test for the NR. Alot of their students work in New Jersey.
> 
> Most if not all the Community Colleges in this area teach pretty much the same thing including BMCC.  There is no apparrent difference other than one is accredited and others aren't.  BMCC is a good program.  So are many others.
> 
> While becoming accredited looks good on paper, it won't magically make being a paramedic respected. Its no quick fix.



K so i guess i shouldnt worry about "accredited" too much since the teaching is all the same.

know anything about emt-b reciprocity from ny to nj and vice versa. i did a little bit of googleing but most thing i read were old and some said one thing and others said another thing. i can take emt-b free here in NJ but i dont know if it would be worth it or how much of a hassle it would be to transfer it over to NJ or if its just a refresher course. And if i do take it here in NJ its either going to be a 1 month day class or 2 month night class over the summer. i dont know how much work it will be or if i should just take the emt class up at RCC.


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## EMSLaw (Apr 20, 2010)

Munnugles said:


> K so i guess i shouldnt worry about "accredited" too much since the teaching is all the same.
> 
> know anything about emt-b reciprocity from ny to nj and vice versa. i did a little bit of googleing but most thing i read were old and some said one thing and others said another thing. i can take emt-b free here in NJ but i dont know if it would be worth it or how much of a hassle it would be to transfer it over to NJ or if its just a refresher course. And if i do take it here in NJ its either going to be a 1 month day class or 2 month night class over the summer. i dont know how much work it will be or if i should just take the emt class up at RCC.



To New York from New Jersey, as both are both members of the Atlantic EMS Council, reciprocity is reasonably easy, and mainly consists of filling out some forms.  In NY, I believe they require that you live, work, or be planning to attend medic school in NY in order to get reciprocity, though.  

NJ grants "legal recognition" to NYS EMTs without the need for reciprocity.  If your NY cert is valid, you can practice in NJ the same as a NJ EMT-B.  If you apply for a NJ Cert by reciprocity, you may have to take Core 13 (the 24 hour refresher) and sit the state exam.

If you are volunteering in New Jersey, and therefore can get the EMT-B course paid by the training fund, then go with that and get NY reciprocity later if you want to attend a NY medic program.

Though, and I will admit this is one of my hobby horses, so take it however you like - if you are not planning on using your state-paid EMT-B cert to actually volunteer for a NJ agency, using the training fund to pay for it - even if someone will agree to sign the form for you - is dishonest and an abuse of the system, which is already going broke because of too many people playing fast and loose with the "free" training, among many other abuses.


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## Munnugles (Apr 20, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> Though, and I will admit this is one of my hobby horses, so take it however you like - if you are not planning on using your state-paid EMT-B cert to actually volunteer for a NJ agency, using the training fund to pay for it - even if someone will agree to sign the form for you - is dishonest and an abuse of the system, which is already going broke because of too many people playing fast and loose with the "free" training, among many other abuses.



Well I have been a volunteer firefighter in my town since 2003 and going to be going through them to get my EMT-b done if i go that route. i already volunteer enough of my time there and i don't know if i would be able to vollie at the ambulance core, have a job, and do medic all at once. that would be too much in my opinion. and having EMT while riding as a vollie firefighter isn't a bad thing also in case there is a need for EMT and we are already on scene. in my eyes im not really just using the system since i already put in alot of time.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 20, 2010)

firecoins said:


> I am not a champion of the so called status quo. I simply stating that a piece of paper saying one community college is "accredited" while others lack that paper will not make paramedics accepted by the rest of the medical community. The BMCC program is not signifactly different from the other community college programs or vice versa.  I am sure if they fill out the paperwork, they will be accredited. It will not magically produce better medics. It will not make paramedics higher or lower care than RNs. Whatever problems exist now, will exist than too.



FC it is hard to guage you perspective because you post in such a contrary tone.  I don't know if you have a particular problem with me, or if that is just your style.  That being said, do you agree that EMS as a Profession deserves to be elevated to at least the status that RNs enjoy?  

If the answer to that is affirmative, then what are your sugesstions for accomplishing this paradigm shift where Paramedics are recognized for their skills education and value as part of the healthcare team, rather than... Just another tech...?


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> FC it is hard to guage you perspective because you post in such a contrary tone.  I don't know if you have a particular problem with me, or if that is just your style.  That being said, do you agree that EMS as a Profession deserves to be elevated to at least the status that RNs enjoy?


Its probably my style.  

Yes I wish to elevate paramedics as being more recognized but comparing what we do with nursing, not so much. I am a paramedic. I am not a nurse. I am not better or worse than a nurse. I am different.  EMS is a different beast. I don't if this is what your looking for.  



> If the answer to that is affirmative, then what are your sugesstions for accomplishing this paradigm shift where Paramedics are recognized for their skills education and value as part of the healthcare team, rather than... Just another tech...?


I already think paramedics are recognized as part of the healthcare team.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

Munnugles said:


> K so i guess i shouldnt worry about "accredited" too much since the teaching is all the same.
> 
> know anything about emt-b reciprocity from ny to nj and vice versa. i did a little bit of googleing but most thing i read were old and some said one thing and others said another thing. i can take emt-b free here in NJ but i dont know if it would be worth it or how much of a hassle it would be to transfer it over to NJ or if its just a refresher course. And if i do take it here in NJ its either going to be a 1 month day class or 2 month night class over the summer. i dont know how much work it will be or if i should just take the emt class up at RCC.




Get your EMT in NY if you want to do a NY program.  Get in Nj if you want a NJ medic.  But you could get it in either state really and get reciprocity.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 20, 2010)

firecoins said:


> Its probably my style.
> 
> Yes I wish to elevate paramedics as being more recognized but comparing what we do with nursing, not so much. I am a paramedic. I am not a nurse. I am not better or worse than a nurse. I am different.  EMS is a different beast. I don't if this is what your looking for.
> 
> I already think paramedics are recognized as part of the healthcare team.



I'm not really looking for anything.

It seems to be a pretty common theme that EMS as a whole is undereducated and undercompensated.

I've always felt that RNs and Paramedics are equivalent in the care that they perform, albeit in two different arenas.  Paramedics are Trauma/Cardiology specialists and RNs are total body system generalists, but there is so much crossover - to me - they should be equivalent.  What is not equivalent is the preparations to enter the two professions.  

In taking the step toward 100% accreditation, EMS is moving toward alleviating the education deficit.

I'm sure you would have enjoyed starting your career with the entry level base of what RNs make.  

Looking at the other current thread a non-firefighter entry level paramedic makes less money than I did working lunches at Red Lobster 7 years ago.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> It seems to be a pretty common theme that EMS as a whole is undereducated and undercompensated.


As far as undercompensated goes....union.  Nurses, Cops and firefighters have strong unions.  Furthermore hospitals are required by law to have a certain RN to pt ratio.  It helps keep their pay high.    



> I've always felt that RNs and Paramedics are equivalent in the care that they perform, albeit in two different arenas.Paramedics are Trauma/Cardiology specialists and RNs are total body system generalists, but there is so much crossover - to me - they should be equivalent.


ER nurses do trauma cardiology. Although they do not need to intrpret EKGs. 



> What is not equivalent is the preparations to enter the two professions.


Nurses do not need to be EMT-Bs first or at all. 



> In taking the step toward 100% accreditation, EMS is moving toward alleviating the education deficit.


I guess but its just a piece of paper.  Alot of programs in NY just need to file paperwork.  Whatever problems exist now will exist than too. 



> I'm sure you would have enjoyed starting your career with the entry level base of what RNs make.


Its always about money.  That all it is. If medics got paid as much as RNs, it still would be something.  



> Looking at the other current thread a non-firefighter entry level paramedic makes less money than I did working lunches at Red Lobster 7 years ago.


Its a good place to find people with seafood allergies.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 20, 2010)

firecoins said:


> I guess but its just a piece of paper.  Alot of programs in NY just need to file paperwork.  Whatever problems exist now will exist than too.
> 
> Its always about money.  That all it is. If medics got paid as much as RNs, it still would be something.
> 
> Its a good place to find people with seafood allergies.




For now it is a piece of paper, but soon, without that paper, no patch.  (if you are in a NR state)

It's a sad state though, that accreditation means nothing.  

True, maybe it is only about the money.

and LOL on the seafood allergies. heh.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

8jimi8 said:


> For now it is a piece of paper, but soon, without that paper, no patch.  (if you are in a NR state)
> 
> It's a sad state though, that accreditation means nothing.
> 
> ...



try to be positive. Stop comparing EMS to nursing.  Recognize the importance of being a medic and be the best at it.  There is never going to be enough money, education or recognition.   Its just the nature of the field.

Maybe its just a piece of paper for the NY programs because they aren't medic mills.  They are already community colleges with a&p 1 & 2. BMCC is accredited. LaGuardia isn't. They otherwise identical.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 20, 2010)

that makes sense


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## Munnugles (Apr 20, 2010)

So as of right now lets say i start medic school and finish it and 2012/3 comes by, and everyone has to be accredited and i have finished medic school and got nr done, will i have a problem later on when it comes to getting a job because i did not go to an accredited school in the first place.  I dont want to be screwed over in the long run. RCC is the easiest/closest campus for me. even BMCC is a pain in the *** to get to because its in the city and traffic and tolls and etc...


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 20, 2010)

From what I have read on the education agenda, those who are already in class prior to the deadline will be grandfathered in.  Now then, recertification will probably have to be with an accredited institution, so if you get the patch that way, don't let your cert run out.


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## firecoins (Apr 20, 2010)

Munnugles said:


> So as of right now lets say i start medic school and finish it and 2012/3 comes by, and everyone has to be accredited and i have finished medic school and got nr done, will i have a problem later on when it comes to getting a job because i did not go to an accredited school in the first place.  I dont want to be screwed over in the long run. RCC is the easiest/closest campus for me. even BMCC is a pain in the *** to get to because its in the city and traffic and tolls and etc...



It isn't a problem.  RCC is the closest, go to it.  Check it out before going.  I would ask Peter and Eric at RCC those questions. As someone who had to commute into the city for a medic program, it is a pain in the ***.  

Also ask hudson.  Since Jersey is an NR state, they will likely be taking care of any problems.


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## Munnugles (Apr 20, 2010)

do you by any chance know how long medic school would take at RCC?


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