# Electric Tester for a MVA or Down Wires?



## eschatt (Mar 14, 2010)

Hi, 
    I am relatively new to the EMS field and have only responded to a few MVA's. I have gone through extrication training. During training they talked of precautions to take when approaching a hybrid vehicle. I have done a lot of tinkering and building in my spare time. I am wondering if there is such a device out there that could be used to test either the ground or the car as you approach for an electric current? Something along the lines of an extend-able five foot prod that could be held out in front of you to test the ground and the car to find out if there is a live current. I have been thinking of designing something to do just that job.

Don't bite my head off  I just want to put the idea out there to see if there are any immediate road blocks that I haven't thought of, if what I am thinking of already exists and if there is any interest in such a product. 

Thanks for listening! 
-Eschatt


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## Veneficus (Mar 14, 2010)

Just wait till law enforcement walks up to the vehicle to write the citation, if he falls down, assume a live current 

sorry guys, couldn't resist.


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## reaper (Mar 14, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> Just wait till law enforcement walks up to the vehicle to write the citation, if he falls down, assume a live current
> 
> sorry guys, couldn't resist.



Same thing I was thinking!


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> sorry guys, couldn't resist.



Ohm, come again?


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## JPINFV (Mar 14, 2010)

eschatt said:


> Hi,
> I am relatively new to the EMS field and have only responded to a few MVA's. I have gone through extrication training. During training they talked of precautions to take when approaching a hybrid vehicle. I have done a lot of tinkering and building in my spare time. I am wondering if there is such a device out there that could be used to test either the ground or the car as you approach for an electric current? Something along the lines of an extend-able five foot prod that could be held out in front of you to test the ground and the car to find out if there is a live current. I have been thinking of designing something to do just that job.



Maybe a multimeter attached to one end with probes on the other end?


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## DrParasite (Mar 14, 2010)

We actually have one, on our heavy rescue.  it can pick up the electronic field, and beeps a lot if a car is energized, the double yellow lines are energized, or if you just have wires arching near a crash.

now, it's not on the first due ambulance, but on the rescue, so I guess the EMS crews are screwed unless it's a confirmed pin and PD requests our rescue (which is another issue we have altogether).


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## eschatt (Mar 14, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Maybe a multimeter attached to one end with probes on the other end?


I was thinking of doing something along those lines... I haven't really worked out the details yet. There are a couple possible ways to approach the design. I am just checking now to see if there would be any interest in such a product/design.




DrParasite said:


> We actually have one, on our heavy rescue.  it can pick up the electronic field, and beeps a lot if a car is energized, the double yellow lines are energized, or if you just have wires arching near a crash.
> 
> now, it's not on the first due ambulance, but on the rescue, so I guess the EMS crews are screwed unless it's a confirmed pin and PD requests our rescue (which is another issue we have altogether).


Do you know why only your heavy rescue has one? Is it expensive? Hard to use? 

Thanks! 
eschatt


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## Sparky79 (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm an electrician so I may be able to help here. There is no need to design a device to do what you are talking about, they already exist. The device is called a non-contact voltage tester (in the trade we refer to them as "tic tracers") and as DrParasite said already they operate by sensing the electromagnetic field around the energized wire, vehicle, etc. 

I would, however, caution non qualified persons from using these on EMS/Fire calls. Leave the electrical work to the electricians and power company. These tic tracers are great for a quick check but they are not fool proof. When we use them in the field we do what is known as a live-dead-live test to verify the tester is functioning properly. A live-dead-live test basically means we take the tester and use it to test a known live power source and make sure the tester reads voltage, then we test the wire in question to see if there is voltage present or not, then we re-test the known source to verify the tester is still reading properly. If you do not do this and only read the wire you want to test you may read a false negative because the tester is not working properly, and the wire you think is dead is in fact live and you will get electrocuted.

I can understand your desire to help the patient, and can appreciate the fact that you do not want to waste precious minutes waiting for the utility, but do not make yourself the next victim. The voltages on utility poles can range any where from 240 volts to 250,000 volts. This is not something you want to mess with without the proper knowledge and training.

Sorry for the rant, but I would hate to read about anyone here being electrocuted on a scene when it can easily be prevented.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 14, 2010)

This is what the red and blue canaries are for.


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## trevor1189 (Mar 14, 2010)

http://www.hotstickusa.com/

Again our rescue has this. Ambulances do carry a 4 gas meter and soon will have CO detectors attached to the jump bags. Those and two SCBAs are about all we have for hazardous situations, otherwise the rescue should be coming anyway.


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## eschatt (Mar 14, 2010)

Sparky79 your rant is totally justified. Especially when involving high voltage power lines. Something to be left to the professionals. I am planning on doing more research on this as a bit of an independent study with one of the professors at my school. I am looking forward to finding out more, a lot of the research for my different "projects" leads me in whole new directions with new ideas. Thanks!


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## eschatt (Mar 14, 2010)

thanks everyone for all of the information and even a few jokes!


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## LucidResq (Mar 14, 2010)

I was riding with the fire department when we responded to a tractor trailer that had been driving where it wasn't allowed and consequently became entangled in some wires. They seemed to be telephone wires, but better safe than sorry of course. 

They had some kind of meter that they used to detect a current/field, but even though it was negative all across the board they didn't really do anything with the truck. I think they just wanted to decide whether or not they needed to completely shut the area down or not, and to relay info to the electrical company.


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