# Officer/partner in trouble



## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

Last night, I was working with the EMS club at my college.  There was a dance for urban education students from nearby Springfield, and things did NOT go very well.  Basically, there was a lot of rivalry between the people there.  I believe that some of it might have been gang related.

We were on standby once the situation began to go south.  There was an angry crowd, and there were around 4 fights in a relatively short amount of time.  The cops had their hands full, and were clearly outnumbered.

This situation got me thinking.  If there was an officer that was in trouble (or your partner, for that matter), and there were no other officers nearby or available (or there were not enough), would you come to their assistance (for this scenario, consider that you are on duty)?  I know what my answer would be.  

This may sound like a stupid question, but I ask this because the number one rule in EMS is personal safety.  But are there times that you would put your safety at risk?  

Thankfully, no officers were injured, but at least one of them was in a bad situation at least once during the whole thing (a fight on the dance floor that I believe she was close to).  Hearing her radio transmissions nearly made my heart stop.

Stay safe out there,
Eric


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> Last night, I was working with the EMS club at my college.  There was a dance for urban education students from nearby Springfield, and things did NOT go very well.  Basically, there was a lot of rivalry between the people there.  I believe that some of it might have been gang related.
> 
> We were on standby once the situation began to go south.  There was an angry crowd, and there were around 4 fights in a relatively short amount of time.  The cops had their hands full, and were clearly outnumbered.
> 
> ...



if that is ever a test question... dont do it. but i would, and i do believe many would take a bit of risk for their partner. i know i would in a heart beat. 
A co worker has done it for me once, i have not had the oppurtunity to return the favor to anyone


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

though i have put myself in one or two extremely unsafe in unpredictable, uncontrollable situations for complete strangers before.


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> if that is ever a test question... dont do it. but i would, and i do believe many would take a bit of risk for their partner. i know i would in a heart beat.
> A co worker has done it for me once, i have not had the oppurtunity to return the favor to anyone



Yeah, I realize not to answer that I would help.  But the thing is, real life is different than a test.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> Yeah, I realize not to answer that I would help.  But the thing is, real life is different than a test.



very much so


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> though i have put myself in one or two extremely unsafe in unpredictable, uncontrollable situations for complete strangers before.



I would only do it for a partner (or another public servant), or maybe a child as well.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

you may do it for a complete stranger, if death was imminent if you did not intervene.


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## MMiz (Sep 28, 2009)

You're asking a public forum a question that's entirely up to the individual.  This is really a person call on your part.

I take care of my colleagues.


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> you may do it for a complete stranger, if death was imminent if you did not intervene.



For a random stranger, if death was imminent, I would probably intervene.

For an officer, partner, firefighter, or child, I would intervene if they were in any sort of danger.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> For a random stranger, if death was imminent, I would probably intervene.
> 
> For an officer, partner, firefighter, or child, I would intervene if they were in any sort of danger.



good man eric


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

MMiz said:


> You're asking a public forum a question that's entirely up to the individual.  This is really a person call on your part.
> 
> I take care of my colleagues.



Yeah, I realize I am going to get a lot of different answers.  Like I said, I know when I would intervene.  I was just wondering what others would do.


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> For a random stranger, if death was imminent, I would probably intervene.



Unless there was a weapon present.  Then I would have to reevaluate this statement.

But if there was a weapon involved with a child, officer, etc., I would probably still intervene.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> Unless there was a weapon present.  Then I would have to reevaluate this statement.
> 
> But if there was a weapon involved with a child, officer, etc., I would probably still intervene.



how do you propse intervening if a weapon is present and your partner/officer is down?


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> how do you propse intervening if a weapon is present and your partner/officer is down?



I would have to figure out a way.  Worst comes to worst, I would use my knife that I will carry or an ASP.  It's not an easy scenario.  Sometimes, it's necessary to put yourself in harms way.

As of now, I do not want to carry a gun while on duty.  But I will have to give it some serious thought.


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

By the way, I will say that I will wear a bullet-resistant vest whenever I am on duty.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Sep 28, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> I would have to figure out a way.  Worst comes to worst, I would use my knife that I will carry or an ASP.  It's not an easy scenario.  Sometimes, it's necessary to put yourself in harms way.
> 
> As of now, I do not want to carry a gun while on duty.  But I will have to give it some serious thought.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## JPINFV (Sep 28, 2009)

Completely situational dependent. There's a reason why there were officers sitting wounded during the North Hollywood Shootout until they were able to borrow an armored car.


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Completely situational dependent.



Agreed.

this10characterruledrivesmenuts


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## dragonjbynight (Sep 28, 2009)

I would assist to the best of my ability, I have been in this situation before at one of my places of employment and recieved two stab wounds, and multiple concussions; this being said, I would do it again in a heartbeat. As stated previously this is situational dependant, there are too many factors to try and imagine. 

Just have to remember, if you, as an bls/als responder are injured, not only will someone have to treat you, but you won't be able to use your abilities to help others. In the end, your entry into the fray, could possibly do more damage than good. 

As far as your partner goes, I would jump in regardless, because i would want them to do the same for me. All goes to trust.


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## medichopeful (Sep 28, 2009)

dragonjbynight said:


> Just have to remember, if you, as an bls/als responder are injured, not only will someone have to treat you, but you won't be able to use your abilities to help others. In the end, your entry into the fray, could possibly do more damage than good.



Which is why (unless it is my partner, child, etc.), it would be situational dependent.


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## mycrofft (Sep 28, 2009)

*Nice how that veered back onto thread.*

I was afraid it was going to turn into another amateur gunfighting/right to bear rant.

LE is ALWAYS going to be "outnumbered" until they reach Booking. Wading in to help them will make you a casualty too, most likely, or at least a target. 

THIS is the whole point of teaching and teaching and teaching "Scene safety", to overcome that blind urge to "do something!" which costs us the lives of EMS, firefighters, LE and civilians needlessly every year.


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## rsdemt (Oct 3, 2009)

*officer/partner in trouble.*

I believe it would be up to the individual at the time of the incident.
Me? I would assist the officer/my partner or a stranger if necessary.
I may not be very strong, but I would use what equipment, and resources (radio, scissors etc.)  I had and start taking people down. But I would not look down on anyone that did not react in this situation either. Maybe they went to call 9-1-1! You never know.


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## atropine (Oct 3, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> I would only do it for a partner (or another public servant), or maybe a child as well.



Yeah sounds good public servent and all, I guess AMR medics are on there own.


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## saycarramrod (Feb 6, 2011)

medichopeful said:


> I would have to figure out a way.  Worst comes to worst, I would use my knife that I will carry or an ASP.  It's not an easy scenario.  Sometimes, it's necessary to put yourself in harms way.
> 
> As of now, I do not want to carry a gun while on duty.  But I will have to give it some serious thought.





You would carry an ASP? Why? Where would you keep it? Do you even know what an ASP is?


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 6, 2011)

medichopeful said:


> This may sound like a stupid question, but I ask this because the number one rule in EMS is personal safety.  But are there times that you would put your safety at risk?



If you have to ask this question...you dont deserve a partner. PARTNERS BEWARE


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 6, 2011)

Why are we reviving threads that flatlined two years ago?


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## Chimpie (Feb 7, 2011)

Thread reopened.  Please make sure we are following the first rule: Be Polite


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## cruiseforever (Feb 8, 2011)

Depends who my partner is.


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## cruiseforever (Feb 8, 2011)

ffemt8978 said:


> Why are we reviving threads that flatlined two years ago?




We are new to the website.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 8, 2011)

threesevenkilo said:


> If you have to ask this question...you dont deserve a partner. PARTNERS BEWARE



I would not if there was a larger chance that intervening would lead to my death/serious injury than mitigating the situation. Such as groups of individuals, weapons, ect. Why? Because I have now contributed to the situation rather than improving it. So should my partners now beware of me too?

Please drop the hero complex, this is not what we're here for. Medical professionals would be well advised to remember the best self-defense tools they have are their words and their feet. Often times the best thing you can do is be an excelent witness.


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## medichopeful (Feb 9, 2011)

saycarramrod said:


> You would carry an ASP? Why? Where would you keep it? Do you even know what an ASP is?



Why would I say I'd carry one if I didn't know what it was? :wacko:


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## medichopeful (Feb 9, 2011)

threesevenkilo said:


> If you have to ask this question...you dont deserve a partner. PARTNERS BEWARE



It was a hypothetical question designed to start a conversation.  If appropriate I'd definitely help my partner out.  I'm not stupid.

Drop the superiority complex.


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## medichopeful (Feb 9, 2011)

medichopeful said:


> Why would I say I'd carry one if I didn't know what it was? :wacko:



And to clarify, this was more than a year ago.  I feel differently now, and wouldn't carry one.  Never have, never will.


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## saycarramrod (Feb 9, 2011)

medichopeful said:


> Why would I say I'd carry one if I didn't know what it was? :wacko:



I was curious. This just shocked me.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 9, 2011)

medichopeful said:


> It was a hypothetical question designed to start a conversation.  If appropriate I'd definitely help my partner out.  I'm not stupid.
> 
> Drop the superiority complex.



Not a superiority complex. Its a true feeling. When out in a city environment and responding to an incident of, as you put it in your original post "gang related," violence, the fact that police have cleared the scene does not mean you're entirely safe. I need to be able to rely on someone who would save my backside just as quickly and decisively as I would if the situation was reversed. This is in no way a superiority complex, but merely a protective instinct for myself and my partner.

congrats saycarramrod on the COMBO BREAKER


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## usalsfyre (Feb 9, 2011)

threesevenkilo said:


> Not a superiority complex. Its a true feeling. When out in a city environment and responding to an incident of, as you put it in your original post "gang related," violence, the fact that police have cleared the scene does not mean you're entirely safe. I need to be able to rely on someone who would save my backside just as quickly and decisively as I would if the situation was reversed. This is in no way a superiority complex, but merely a protective instinct for myself and my partner.
> 
> congrats saycarramrod on the COMBO BREAKER



I'm not sure if your new and just haven't had a sufficient dose of reality yet, or if you've watched too many Chuck Norris movies but the fact is if your partner is getting stomped by a mob, your probably going to do very little other than add to the stompees. If your partner is getting attacked with a weapon, you had better be prepared to get cut/shot/beaten severly as part of the effort to help them. The consequence for the very real posibillity of failure? Debilitating injury or worse. Perhaps your ok with dying "heroically trying to aid your partner", I personally find there to be very little that is "heroic" about death. 

Understand your name will be used used in EMS classes from then till enternity, and not in a good way. "I don't know what the (insert insult here) was thinking" will be the phrase used when talking about your death. Your spouse/girlfriend will go on without you, your children if you have any will grow up minus one parent. Everyone else will forget you except for being an example of what NOT to do.

I'm not talking about tackling the lone guy, I'm talking about the situation presented here. Take honest stock and ask yourself if your willing to have that fate. The risk benefit of intervening in a mob situation/against weapons just isn't there. I don't expect anyone to do it for me either.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 9, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> I'm not sure if your new and just haven't had a sufficient dose of reality yet, or if you've watched too many Chuck Norris movies but the fact is if your partner is getting stomped by a mob, your probably going to do very little other than add to the stompees. If your partner is getting attacked with a weapon, you had better be prepared to get cut/shot/beaten severly as part of the effort to help them. The consequence for the very real posibillity of failure? Debilitating injury or worse. Perhaps your ok with dying "heroically trying to aid your partner", I personally find there to be very little that is "heroic" about death.
> 
> Understand your name will be used used in EMS classes from then till enternity, and not in a good way. "I don't know what the (insert insult here) was thinking" will be the phrase used when talking about your death. Your spouse/girlfriend will go on without you, your children if you have any will grow up minus one parent. Everyone else will forget you except for being an example of what NOT to do.
> 
> I'm not talking about tackling the lone guy, I'm talking about the situation presented here. Take honest stock and ask yourself if your willing to have that fate. The risk benefit of intervening in a mob situation/against weapons just isn't there. I don't expect anyone to do it for me either.



Here's a dose of reality for you. I've been there. Watched a partner attacked. Attacked at a bar with plenty of weapons that could have been used. I was a ride along at the time. What I saw wasn't a "hero" nor was it Chuck Norris. What I saw was a partner not hesitate to go after the crowd attacking his partner as well as calling the two cops outside in to help as well. There were cuts and bruises but the partner that was being stomped by a buddy of the injured who drunkenly thought he was hurting his friend and grabbed a crew of clowns was a lot better off. Nothing heroic. This didnt make the papers or any of that crap. It went in reports and went to court while the lives of the professionals moved on. Give me a break


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## medichopeful (Feb 9, 2011)

saycarramrod said:


> I was curious. This just shocked me.



Fair enough.  Sorry I was crabby long night!


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## saycarramrod (Feb 9, 2011)

I am going to have to completely agree with threesevenkilo with this one. If my partner is attacked you'd better believe I'm going to have his back. I'm conscious of the threat of injury when I get involved but if I did nothing and something serious happened to my partner and I didn't get involved I would have to live with that for the rest of my life. To me that would be worse than any physical injury because I know that I could have done something and because I didn't my partner is now hurt.  

Now consider this. What if it isnt your partner that's getting assaulted. What if its your best friend? Or your spouse? Or your child? Are you going to stand back and call for help and just watch them get beat? Or are you going to get in there and start splitting some wigs? I know what I would do.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 9, 2011)

saycarramrod said:


> Now consider this. What if it isnt your partner that's getting assaulted. What if its your best friend? Or your spouse? Or your child? Are you going to stand back and call for help and just watch them get beat? Or are you going to get in there and start splitting some wigs? I know what I would do.



This is exactly the mentality I am trying to convey, just put into much better words by saycarramrod. Thank you.


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## saycarramrod (Feb 9, 2011)

threesevenkilo said:


> This is exactly the mentality I am trying to convey, just put into much better words by saycarramrod. Thank you.



Thank you. But I couldn't have done it without the help of Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith.


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## Lady_EMT (Feb 9, 2011)

My partner is either my boyfriend, or one of my best friends. Sometimes my partner is my brother. You bet your *** I'll be jumping in to help them. Even if it's just a random fill in partner, I'm still going to defend them. 

It's not about being a hero; I'm not going to expect a front-page spread in the newspaper or to be the head story on the 5 o'clock news. It's about making sure my partner makes it home to their family. You can call me stupid if you want, or tell me that I'd be making the wrong decision, but I'd rather die knowing they can make it home, than go home to my family while my partner's family mourns over a six-foot deep hole.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 9, 2011)

saycarramrod said:


> Now consider this. What if it isnt your partner that's getting assaulted. What if its your best friend? Or your spouse? Or your child? Are you going to stand back and call for help and just watch them get beat? Or are you going to get in there and start splitting some wigs? I know what I would do.



I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but my wife and my children go into a wholly different category than random coworker "A".

I get along great with my partner. Wouldn't hesitate to defend her in most circumstances. But I'm not wading into a circumstance where I'm likely to get stomped/killed myself. It's massively counterproductive. I don't expect her too either. If y'all are that gungho about the "partner relationship" than good for you, that's your decision to make. However, thinking yourself better than those that may have cooler heads/different priorities isn't right either. Revisit the idea in a few years and see where your priorities lay.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 9, 2011)

Lady_EMT said:


> My partner is either my boyfriend, or one of my best friends. Sometimes my partner is my brother. You bet your *** I'll be jumping in to help them. Even if it's just a random fill in partner, I'm still going to defend them.



I'm not sure as to the wisdom of partnering with family and/or people whom your in a relationship with. 



Lady_EMT said:


> It's not about being a hero; I'm not going to expect a front-page spread in the newspaper or to be the head story on the 5 o'clock news. It's about making sure my partner makes it home to their family. You can call me stupid if you want, or tell me that I'd be making the wrong decision, but I'd rather die knowing they can make it home, than go home to my family while my partner's family mourns over a six-foot deep hole.



Nope, won't call you stupid, it's your decision to make, and my person feelings on the intelligence of it don't enter into it. But don't call me cowardly either. At the end of the day my responsibility is to my family. Leaving my wife a widow and children fatherless for a partner in my view isn't fair. That doesn't even get into the financial, psychological and social issues involved in my death in a situation where I essentially chose my partner over them. Your priorities in life change. Mine did when I got married and had kids.


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## Enforcer400 (Feb 9, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but my wife and my children go into a wholly different category than random coworker "A".



its not a random coworker, its your partner. your partner needs to be able to trust you and know that you will do the right thing. i.e. helping them if they're getting attacked by someone. its not some hero complex its doing the right thing.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 10, 2011)

Double post


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## usalsfyre (Feb 10, 2011)

Enforcer400 said:


> its not a random coworker, its your partner. your partner needs to be able to trust you and know that you will do the right thing. i.e. helping them if they're getting attacked by someone. its not some hero complex its doing the right thing.



At the end of the day, my partner, no matter how much I like them, how long I've worked them, ect, does not fall into the same category as my wife and kids. Won't. Ever. Period.

Define the right thing. I've stood up for my partner, defended them to coworkers who were in the wrong, and tried to take care of them the best I could. It's my job, for one trust is important in a working relationship, second as the senior person on the truck it's ultimately my responsibility. I just don't see getting killed or maimed as part of that. Other responsibilities are more important. 

I'm not talking about not "helping out if someone is attacking them". I'm specifically referring to situations in which my intervention is very likely to not only fail but lead to me ending up in the same position as the person I'm helping. I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone thinks intervening in that instance is a good idea. 

Let's change the situation slightly. If your partner was in a cloud of toxic gas, and you knew trying to remove them would very likely not only be unsuccessful, but result in your death/permanent disability as well, would you still try to remove them?


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## Enforcer400 (Feb 10, 2011)

well if my partner was in a cloud of toxic gas id just pull my gas mask out of my back pocket  .... but seriously there is nothing you could really do and in that situation there would be no way to reach my partner without just killing myself also. not every potentially life threatening situation is there a guarantee that i would be killed along with my partner. doing the right thing is letting police and fire do their job but if for some reason they cant or just aren't there yet, like in some more rural areas, it may be up to me to try to save my partner.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 10, 2011)

Enforcer400 said:


> well if my partner was in a cloud of toxic gas id just pull my gas mask out of my back pocket  .... but seriously there is nothing you could really do and in that situation there would be no way to reach my partner without just killing myself also. not every potentially life threatening situation is there a guarantee that i would be killed along with my partner. doing the right thing is letting police and fire do their job but if for some reason they cant or just aren't there yet, like in some more rural areas, it may be up to me to try to save my partner.



If you've ever seen what three to four committed people can do with fist and feet, not to mention weapons, when focused against a downed opponent (i.e. not a barfight where everyones fighting everyone) then you'd realize why the comparision to a cloud of gas is valid. If you haven't, then your deluding yourself about how effective you'll be in this case.

This isn't Hollywood, it's not a schoolyard fight. In another life I was involved in both martial arts and practical handgunning. If you study real applications of self-defense, your realize how deadly this stuff can be.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 10, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> (i.e. not a barfight where everyones fighting everyone)



I hope I didn't convey that situation as a barroom brawl. It was a group of a:censored::censored:clowns drunk beating on 1 EMT with fists and feet.


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## reaper (Feb 10, 2011)

So you join in and now it a group drunks beating on 2 EMTs with fists and feet! What have you done, but put yourself in harms way? You sure did not save your partner.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 10, 2011)

_**Quoted post removed**_

My next question is how did said EMT get into this position in the first place? Maybe I just haven't worked in a "city environment" enough (doubtful) but I can't imagine ending up on the floor getting beat by a mob in a situation that didn't involve a).me COMPLETELY losing situational awareness; b).me being an @sshole or c).both.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 10, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> My next question is how did said EMT get into this position in the first place? Maybe I just haven't worked in a "city environment" enough (doubtful) but I can't imagine ending up on the floor getting beat by a mob in a situation that didn't involve a).me COMPLETELY losing situational awareness; b).me being an @sshole or c).both.



Said EMT was talking to the patient and the patient's buddy wouldn't stop answering the questions being asked to the patient. After finally being told to just back off, said assclown decided to get his buddies together and come after the EMT for telling him to back off. Not too hard to get knocked to the ground by someone standing when you're down on one knee already.

Enough of this pissing contest, we've gone far off topic.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 10, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Maybe I just haven't worked in a "city environment" enough *(doubtful)*...



Just remember, once you've got it all figured out, you're wrong.


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## reaper (Feb 10, 2011)

If you are in a bar of drunks, you do not tell them to back off! You talk to them calmly and politely and explain to them what you are doing and why. 

Again, this comes down to knowing how to talk to people and diffuse situations verbally. This comes from experience in the actual field and not 3rd person stories. 

You jump right on in there and they are carrying you both out! Hopefully still breathing.


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## abckidsmom (Feb 10, 2011)

reaper said:


> If you are in a bar of drunks, you do not tell them to back off! You talk to them calmly and politely and explain to them what you are doing and why.
> 
> Again, this comes down to knowing how to talk to people and diffuse situations verbally. This comes from experience in the actual field and not 3rd person stories.
> 
> You jump right on in there and they are carrying you both out! Hopefully still breathing.



I learned in medical priority dispatching that people tend to cooperate when you give them a request with a reason.  This has worked for me in so many phases of life:

"Ma'am, please answer the questions so we can send the right help for your husband."

became

"Honey, please bring me home some chocolate so I won't be a raving lunatic tomorrow."

and can also be applied to

"Sir, please don't answer the questions for your friend.  I need to be able to evaluate his thinking.  Please feel free to tell the nice firefighter anything you feel is important for me to know."


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## Enforcer400 (Feb 10, 2011)

I haven't encountered many drunks who like to cooperate with people.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 10, 2011)

Enforcer400 said:


> I haven't encountered many drunks who like to cooperate with people.



Funny, the large majority of the ones I encounter have no problem with it. However, I make sure to treat them with respect and explain the benefits to cooperation. 

Early in my career I didn't, and back then I thought all drunks were uncooperative. I often made things far more difficult than they had to be.


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## abckidsmom (Feb 10, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Funny, the large majority of the ones I encounter have no problem with it. However, I make sure to treat them with respect and explain the benefits to cooperation.
> 
> Early in my career I didn't, and back then I thought all drunks were uncooperative. I often made things far more difficult than they had to be.



+10

And the tend to respond in a similar tone that they were spoken to.  I can escalate any drunk to physical blows, it seems.  Works the same way in reverse.

And I find that providers who can't see this, in general, aren't going to.


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## Enforcer400 (Feb 10, 2011)

I would love to have PTs like that. Ours are usually at one end of the spectrum or the other(unconcious or un-cooperative).


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## abckidsmom (Feb 10, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> And I find that providers who can't see this, in general, aren't going to.





Enforcer400 said:


> I would love to have PTs like that. Ours are usually at one end of the spectrum or the other(unconcious or un-cooperative).



I had a partner like you once.  It was "fun."


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## Enforcer400 (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm sure that your partner had a blast!


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## Ghando14 (Feb 12, 2011)

I would imagine that if anyone on here is fire medic, they would be used to putting themselves in harms way for partners and strangers. The general mentality of the EMS is helping others at some cost to you. EMS employees tend to be kinda altruistic by nature. 

As for me, I would hope that if I was in trouble that some guidelines someone else wrote wouldn't stop my partner from saving my butt, and I know it wouldn't stop me.


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## Enforcer400 (Feb 12, 2011)

Ghando14 said:


> I would imagine that if anyone on here is fire medic, they would be used to putting themselves in harms way for partners and strangers. The general mentality of the EMS is helping others at some cost to you. EMS employees tend to be kinda altruistic by nature.
> 
> As for me, I would hope that if I was in trouble that some guidelines someone else wrote wouldn't stop my partner from saving my butt, and I know it wouldn't stop me.



I couldn't agree more Ghando14.


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## Icenine (Feb 12, 2011)

If it wasn't for people putting themselves in harms way there would be no hero's.

If I'm having a brew with my partner and someone comes after me I have no doubt that he would jump in and help me chuck norris the fellas.  Why would punching the clock change him having my back? or anyone else on the team for that matter.  The first person that says "Sorry I pull that guy off you, it's not safe" at a minimum loses the trust of everyone on the dept, and probably gets creatively let go.

The book says "CYA" I would contend that part of personal safety is knowing that you and your partner are watching each others backsides.


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## threesevenkilo (Feb 12, 2011)

Icenine said:


> If I'm having a brew with my partner and someone comes after me I have no doubt that he would jump in and help me chuck norris the fellas.  Why would punching the clock change him having my back? or anyone else on the team for that matter.



Outstanding!:beerchug:


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## CANMAN (Feb 23, 2011)

Very interesting thread indeed. I can honestly say I work in a fairly rough area and although P.D. is dispatched anytime the scene is deemed "unsafe' by communications there are times where you happen to just walk into bad situations. I am not going to go into full explaination on the types of situations or get into a "well if the scene is unsafe you should backout" discussion because sometimes this isn't an option. Bottom line is the type of person I am I could not stand back and watch someone else get beat/suffer and not intervene. Especially my partner, who is a female, who I work with every fourth day, who is married, and has a child. I would obviously call for help prior to trying to intervene and make our situation and location know but after doing that I could not just stand there and wait for the help to arrive. I think everyone has a different comfort level, and that is ok. I have a LE background and in no way think of myself as a tough guy but I don't fear anyone nor if placed in a situation as above am I super concerned with my personal safety at that given second. Some may think this is dumb but if I could save my partner, a child, family member, etc from death and had to risk my life in the process I am ok with that. I have done this countless times in fires, military people do it everyday for our freedom, etc. I truely believe when its your time to go its your time to go. Everyone can Monday morning quaterback the situation if something were to happen to me and I am not going to lose sleep over it. 

The problem with America is everyone is scared to act on a situation now a days.


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## fireemsmike (Feb 24, 2011)

medichopeful said:


> Last night, I was working with the EMS club at my college.  There was a dance for urban education students from nearby Springfield, and things did NOT go very well.  Basically, there was a lot of rivalry between the people there.  I believe that some of it might have been gang related.
> 
> We were on standby once the situation began to go south.  There was an angry crowd, and there were around 4 fights in a relatively short amount of time.  The cops had their hands full, and were clearly outnumbered.
> 
> ...



Know your local laws as an EMS provider. Coming to the aid of an officer can be both good and bad. Some states are clear that unless a sworn officer you may not touch nor attempt to handle any person no matter what.  AKA the PT could be beating you in the back of an ambulance and all u can do is take it. It is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of but it has come up. A firefighter , sworn to protect _life and property_ can however. Again depends on state and local laws. Now finding an officer that will arrest an EMS provider trying to save himself is rare. However they have arrested us for blocking lanes before. 
In my personal opinion, its not what your there for. Best thing you can do if the situation is going to hell is to go to your unit, tell dispatch and/or call a signal 1 (if the situation is that bad). It is not your job to carry a badge and a gun. Not to sound like that guy because I've helped when I shouldn't have. You never realize it till your situation goes very wrong that you don't want to be anywhere near it. Hope this helps. Stay safe.


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