# Any Denver Health Medics around?



## Trashtruck (Jul 13, 2011)

Hello,
I'm looking to move to Denver and would like to get some info. from somebody who works there(Denver Health. Or somebody who has worked for them). I have researched it on the internet, but would like an insiders POV. I have my Colorado EMT-P.
Thanks!


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 2, 2011)

Right here.


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## RocketMedic (Aug 2, 2011)

Also looking strongly at Denver Health from dusty El Paso.


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 3, 2011)

I complain about this town tirelessly. I guss I'm not in El Paso though. I mean that in a good way.

Jeff


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## Trashtruck (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi JeffDHMC,
I assume you worked there?
I'm looking to move to move to Denver. I was curious as to how Denver Health runs. How is the pay? The benefits? The schedule? Is there overtime available? 
How are the employees treated? Since it is hospital-based, I picture it being run like a private company...

I'm weighing the benefits of the move...
Any insider information on how they operate there, treat their employees, scheduling, etc. would be appreciated.
Thank you...


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 3, 2011)

Trashtruck said:


> Hi JeffDHMC,
> I assume you worked there?
> I'm looking to move to move to Denver. I was curious as to how Denver Health runs. How is the pay? The benefits? The schedule? Is there overtime available?
> How are the employees treated? Since it is hospital-based, I picture it being run like a private company...
> ...



Still there, 14 years now.

Pay: Better than anyone else in the metro area that is not FD based. It's a sliding scale based on experience. I think the low end is around $17/hr. Miles ahead of the privtes around here, anyway.

Benefits: Your typical 401(a) and 457 I think. I'm on the city retirement as well so I don't really keep up on the other ones since my ex-wife nicked most of it. Health ins is real cheap with cheap co-pays. I just use the basic DH ins for my family and have no complaints. You can pay more for out of network stuff too.

Schedule: We run 4/10s with the 1st shift beginning at 0530 and the last starting at 2100 I think. The shift pick is based on seniority, so it's evenings and weekends when you start. We don't have stations or anything, so you spend 10 hours in the front seat of the bus. Personally, I like it that way. You get to see different parts of the city, the scenery changes.

OT: There's OT available quite a bit with the street crews. A few years ago we had a guy that was the highest paid employee in the city due to all the OT he scored. It's not like that now, but you can pick up up to 30 hours a pay period. That's special events like MLB games, concerts and the like as well as street shifts.

I think the employees are treated great. You always have your naysayers that would disagree, but these are the types that would not be happy anywhere they go, DH or Disneyland. Like most places; if you come to work when you are supposed to, do a good job and treat your customers and co-workers well, it's a cake walk. There's no union or anything like that, wait, there is. Some guys are IAFF. How that makes sense is beyond me. They're like the People's Front of Judea, 5 guys in the corner talking about how the Man is conspiring to keep them down. No collective bargaining or anything (don't need it anyway), so what's the point?

As far as being like a private amb? I don't think so. My time in the privates was a ways back, but it's not at all the same. It's basically 3rd service EMS. FD is BLS and answers to us. Whenever anything happens in the city that needs EMS consideration, it's us (DNC for instance). Nothing at all like a private near as I can tell.

I think that's everything. If I missed anything, or you have any other questions, let me know.

Jeff


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## Trashtruck (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Jeff,
That was very informative. As far as 911, is DH the sole-provider for Denver?
How are your units set up? Dual medic? Medic/EMT? Basic units? How many units are on during peak hours? Night?

What determines who gets assigned where in the city? Or do the medic units post and roam with the flow of the runs?

I'd imagine DFD is your first responder for codes, prolonged ETA's, lift-assists, etc...?

Oh, and people live decently/comfortably on $17/hr. out there?


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 4, 2011)

Trashtruck said:


> Thanks Jeff,
> That was very informative. As far as 911, is DH the sole-provider for Denver?
> How are your units set up? Dual medic? Medic/EMT? Basic units? How many units are on during peak hours? Night?
> 
> ...



Yeah, we are the sole provider for 911. We farm out calls to privates when we get busy, but if I recall correctly that only accounts for <5% of the call volume.

Most units are double medic cars. We have some split cars but are gradually phasing them out. It takes a bit of time as we try to get the basics through p-school. Oh yeah, no IFTs here either. A basic will drive the CCT, but that's it.

Minimum staffing is 19 cars during the day and 14 at night I think. It just changed so don't quote me. That's for 80,000 calls per year on the light side. There was a time when we had just about the highest UHU in the country, but that's no loner the case. 20 calls in 10 hrs got a little old.

As far as geographic dispersion; the cars pretty much go where they're needed. You may see every conner of the city in a shift, or you might pitch a no hitter out at airport.it just depends on how the die is cast.

Now, DFD is an interesting topic. Every couple of years they are going to take over EMS. Never mind that A. It will never happen secondary to issues beyond their control and B. They have zero money to do so. So, what they respond to is based on how much their IAFF heads are yammering on about and who they think will care that they need money or something. Years ago they came with us on hardly anything. Now, you may want to sit down for this, they respond code 10 (emergent) to EVERYTHING. It matters not the nature or our response mode, if a phone rings in the comm center, they're carpet bombing the response. I really doubt that will last. Some of the houses downtown don't stop running for their entire shift. They're a little bitter I think.

I called HR about the pay scale. 
Base: $18.93
Midpoint: $23.19
Top: $27.44
It's based on experience coming in. I think about 10 years will get you midpoint to start, don't quote me on that either. 

Not sure about how comfortably people live, you'll have to comparison shop cost of living for that one. I'm on a different scale and my wife makes more than me, so from the ivory tower things seem fine.

What else? Hit me.

Jeff


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 4, 2011)

I love the fact that without my keyboard I can't edit errors from the iPad. Great.


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## sir.shocksalot (Aug 4, 2011)

JeffDHMC said:


> Now, DFD is an interesting topic. Every couple of years they are going to take over EMS. Never mind that A. It will never happen secondary to issues beyond their control and B. They have zero money to do so. So, what they respond to is based on how much their IAFF heads are yammering on about and who they think will care that they need money or something. Years ago they came with us on hardly anything. Now, you may want to sit down for this, they respond code 10 (emergent) to EVERYTHING. It matters not the nature or our response mode, if a phone rings in the comm center, they're carpet bombing the response. I really doubt that will last. Some of the houses downtown don't stop running for their entire shift. They're a little bitter I think.


I always wondered why I heard DFD screaming by my apartment more often than Denver Health  . I think I have seen and worked in systems that carpet bomb calls more than DFD does though; had a truck, engine company, ambulance, and chief at every shooting just about, along with embarrassingly long scene times for trauma.


JeffDHMC said:


> I called HR about the pay scale.
> Base: $18.93
> Midpoint: $23.19
> Top: $27.44
> ...


I can answer this: it really depends on what you have going on at home. At $16 an hour I live in a decent one-bedroom with an okay car and don't really worry about money. I can generally buy the toys I want, generally afford a few credit hours of classes at school, and don't really have to work much overtime. That said, if you have a wife and kids and want to live somewhere nice, you will really struggle on $16. (This is at a private in Denver, AMR pays the most, followed by Rural/Metro-Pridemark, followed by Actioncare and the smaller companies, but they all pay right around there for a baby medic).
Now if I was on $18.93 an hour... ^_^


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## Trashtruck (Aug 5, 2011)

Thanks for the responses...
So, is DFD automatically dispatched with DH on certain calls? You stated years ago they hardly ran anything with you guys, but now respond lights/sirens on runs they go on with you. What changed? They need numbers? I'm sure they're left making small talk on scene for quite some time given the different response modes...

How's job security?(feel free to make all he jokes you want) A lot of places are cutting back with the economic strain... 

Also, do police transport patients, ie shootings, stabbings, etc?


Shocksalot...do you live in the city?


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## Trashtruck (Aug 5, 2011)

Also Shocksalot,
If you want the $19/hr, why haven't you gone to Denver Health?


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 5, 2011)

If by "certain" you mean ALL, you're correct. BITD they went on C/P, SOB, unc party, cardiac arrest and car crashes. We did everything else alone. Over the years they have changed it up here and there depending on what the union is pushing for. They don't fight fire (not like places back east and such) and need to justify their existence. Never mind that they came at us with the NFPA response time crap and can't meet it themselves (we do). It's the typical fire vs EMS garbage (which you'll notice I never post about due to my strong and unprofessional opinions on the topic). So anyway, I'm sure them coming with us on EVERYTHING will stop at some point when they figure out that it is about the dumbest idea they've had this week.

Job security is about as good as it gets. The CEO of the hospital does not believe in layoffs and it has not happened in my time there. To put it another way; barring holidays, every Monday the new employee orientation is held in the same building as my shop. Without fail there are at least 20 people in there and at times well over 50. That's every Monday. If you get hired at DH you're there until you want to leave. Granted, people leave that don't want to, but they deserve it by my account.

Cops might transport the occasional psych or something, always minor. They never put sick people in their cars. Back when our UHU was higher they took more of the psych types in, but now that we have more cars they mostly stick to fighting crime.

I'm sure you'll get around to medical direction, so I'll beat you to it. The Division is a bit different than some places when it comes to this topic. At DH a MD is in charge of just about every department, the Division is no exeption. He is involved in most aspect of day to day operations and is your boss. He's not a guy the chief hired because we need medical direction according to the state, he's the chief's boss. I like it that way because he is very involved (as much as you can be with 200 medics) and really cares about patients.

Alright, what else?

Jeff


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## Flightorbust (Aug 5, 2011)

jeff, Do they hire from out of the area of do you have to live within so far of the base? IE can you live in the Springs or Longmont, FoCo ect and still work there?


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 5, 2011)

You bet; the residency law was lifted in '99 I think. Never understood that one. Now, you still have to pay a tax for the lofty privilege of working in the city, but why not, right? 

Jeff


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## sir.shocksalot (Aug 6, 2011)

Trashtruck said:


> Also Shocksalot,
> If you want the $19/hr, why haven't you gone to Denver Health?



If it was that easy I would  And the money is pretty low on the list of reasons for me to work there. Working in a progressive, busy, well respected EMS system is at the top of the list.

Yes I do live in the city, as Jeff said it's by no means required. I just enjoy living closer to work.

I'll also repeat Jeff by saying job security is excellent once you're in. DH has a very cool training system in that your entire training is done as a second seater. They don't put you as an awkward third wheel on the bus. The clearing process is about 6 months until you get patched, and until you get your patch you can get let go if you're not up to standards (or they don't feel you can get there).


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## Trashtruck (Aug 6, 2011)

Shocksalot,
What makes it (applying to DH) so difficult? 

Is it your opinion that DH is not, 'a progressive, busy, well respected EMS system'? Maybe I read it wrong, but it reads like you work somewhere that is a progressive, busy, well respected EMS system' and do so despite the lower pay. That DH isn't worth the couple of dollars an hour extra...or am I way off? 

I completely agree with you about money not being the top priority on your list. With that being said, morale is also a HUGE factor in determining a place to work. 

Jeff,
BITD? I'm not familiar with that term? So, you get an engine on EVERY run with you? That's crazy. They dispatch an engine even if a medic unit is closer? How does that interaction work on scene?

20 people a week at new employee orientation? They must hire only very few. Why are most people disqualified or cut from the list?

WOW!!! A medical director who's actually in charge of something! A command doc involved in EMS! What a concept!!!
I like how he's the boss.


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 6, 2011)

BITD - Back In The Day

Yep, some kind of firetruck on every call, no matter the nature. It's all politics and justifying staffing models. Interaction is the same as a lot of other places I'm sure. Some people get along, some don't.

I'm not sure I understand your bit about the 20 people a week. 

Jeff


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## Trashtruck (Aug 6, 2011)

Ok...wait a minute,
Fire apparatus on EVERY SINGLE run...no matter the distance/ETA of the responding medic unit?!?! How long has that been going on? I understand sending one for manpower for codes, obese pt's, extrication, traffic control, etc...but what's point for runs where the person doesn't even need EMS at all(toothache)? Regardless, so long as they stay out of the way, no big deal.


What I was getting at with the new employee orientation numbers is this: If every week, 20+ ppl. show up, why is there one every week? I guess maybe I was wondering what the hiring process is like. Is it so stringent that of those 20 candidates, only a few get through, requiring new orientation weekly? Or does the new employee orientation include ALL new hospital employees from food service, custodial, administrative, nurses, docs, etc...and not strictly paramedic applicants? 
I've worked for a hospital, and that's how the new employee orientation was...a mix of everybody.


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## Flightorbust (Aug 6, 2011)

colorado springs is the same way. Every call gets a fire unit. Its because there are now so few fires the city has to justify having 15 stations in a city. They do this by saying that we did 10,000 calls (made up number for example point) and we were able to average 6 minutes response times.


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 7, 2011)

DFD responds code 10 (emergent) on every medical call, even before it's coded. They don't even know what the nature is before they go. It's a matter of politics. How can they take over EMS if they can't demonstrate that they go on all the EMS calls? Like I said earlier; it's a waste of time and resources because they are not going to acquire EMS, it's just not going to happen. And yes, it's beyond the realms of comprehension. 

The 20+ people every Monday are those that have made it through the application/interview process for every department in the hospital and are new DH employees.


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## sir.shocksalot (Aug 7, 2011)

Trashtruck said:


> Shocksalot,
> What makes it (applying to DH) so difficult?
> 
> Is it your opinion that DH is not, 'a progressive, busy, well respected EMS system'? Maybe I read it wrong, but it reads like you work somewhere that is a progressive, busy, well respected EMS system' and do so despite the lower pay. That DH isn't worth the couple of dollars an hour extra...or am I way off?


Way off. Denver Health is a very progressive, busy, well respected EMS system and. I definitely don't work in a service anywhere close to the respect that DH gets.

And Fire departments positioning themselves to take over ambulance services is a common practice in CO, regardless of how high preforming the ambulance service is. Gotta justify their jobs somehow. Greeley fire recently pulled the same political stunt on Weld County Paramedics.


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## Trashtruck (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you all for replying.
Shocksalot, since DH is a progressive, respected EMS system AND pays more than yours, why not apply? I was simply curious since you stated that(progressive, respected) was one of your highest priorities...the higher pay being only a bonus. I've heard from other sources that DH is very progressive, and this reaffirms them.

Jeff and Flightorbust,
The fire service is struggling, I agree. I see it, too. What once was a nuisance to them, being 'bothered' with EMS, is now their foundation for numbers. I won't get into this, but I hear ya both loud and clear. Beyond the realm of comprehension. Perfect summation for it. 

Jeff,
Any idea on how long the hiring process is? What it entails...background packet? Oral? Written? Practicals? Academy?


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## JeffDHMC (Aug 7, 2011)

The application process begins the same way for every position in the hospital. Once the online app is complete, if it meets the needs of the deptartment (in the case of the Division we mostly look at experience) the next step is the Talent Plus phone interview. Talent + is basically a series of questions designed to decide how you perform in a customer service environment and is conducted for every applicant throughout the hospital. If your T+ scores are acceptable we look at background and driving records, if they look OK you move onto the interview process. The interview consist of a medical and andministrative panel. Then medical panel is oral scenarios and the other is basically the "why do you want to work here" type stuff. 

We interview the 2nd or 3rd Thursday of the month (I can't recall which) depending on whether or not we have positions open - we nearly always do. Once you have your app submitted it's a pretty short processs from there to job offer or regret. 

Day one of employment is the orientation I talked about with people going to other departments. The remainder of that week is some system specific classroom stuff and the violent pt management course. Week 2 you're on the street in the field training program.

The program is 5 phases (3 medical and 2 driving) with no real time limit as long as you are seen to be making progress.  Phase I is just evaluating you on hx/PE, you may be talked to about other stuff, but it does not count on your eval. Phase III is being evaluated on every aspect of running a call from the pt care side. hx/PE, treatment, disposition and all that. Once you're good there it's onto the driving phase. In phase I you're evaluated on all aspects of driving (that's all you do) such as routing and playing the roll of the "driver".  In phase II you are evaluated on everything. From how you introduce yourself to patients, to how well you route to and from calls, and pretty much everything that entails being a paramedic. Once you succesfully complete all phases, you get your right shoulder patch. Duration in the program varies acording to your abilities. At times it may take a year, for others it may be 6 weeks. It's just dependant on whether or not you are showing progression.

I'm at the end of my rope with autocorrect and as such will no longer care what weird words come out in these posts.


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## Tigger (Aug 7, 2011)

Flightorbust said:


> colorado springs is the same way. Every call gets a fire unit. Its because there are now so few fires the city has to justify having 15 stations in a city. They do this by saying that we did 10,000 calls (made up number for example point) and we were able to average 6 minutes response times.



To be fair, AMR in Colorado Springs runs P/B trucks and every CSFD engine company has a medic on board, so every call gets two medics. That's probably rarely needed, but when you need two medics, you probably want them yesterday.

/threadjack.


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## Flightorbust (Aug 7, 2011)

I agree that its nice to have when you need it. Just like all CSFD are basics. There are times where a basic FF will hop in and help on transport. Im not saying its a bad thing. Im just saying that politics come into play and they always respond to help justify having as many stations as they do. 9 times out of 10 fire will beat AMR to a scene. Ive seen on a Sunday where theres 3 AMR units for all of the Springs, Manitou and Fountain because of fire.


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