# i have a question...



## madmommer (Oct 15, 2008)

during a urine test my daughter came up as positive for morphine.
i know this is wrong.
however, she had been given promethazine 25 mg. tablets for nausea.
is this how the false positive could have happened?

i am 52 and so out of the loop, i hope my questions aren't dumb.

she goes to court tomorrow for the violation.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 15, 2008)

i don't know you or your daughter, but this situation isn't new.

you can have the test redone(usually at your own expense) if you truly believe the test was in error.

here's the problem. assuming it was a false positive, the next test will come back clean, exonerating your daughter. but opiates clear the system in roughly 72hrs so even if she comes back clean the second time around, everybody who is privy to those results will look at her sideways for quite some time because the second test really doesn't prove anything. it doesn't even prove the first test was wrong.....


also keep in mind that most parents who have children that use drugs have no idea, at least in the beginning. and none of these parents think they're children would do that sort of thing. I'm not saying that's whats happening here, just that those are the most common circumstances associated with this situation.

best of luck.

-k-


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## BossyCow (Oct 15, 2008)

How sure are you that this is a false negative and why was the test ordered to begin with? 

A positive for morphine sounds a bit more definitive than some of the less accurate tests. Different agencies use different tests and there's a lot of variation in the accuracy of the tests. I would be most concerned about the fact that someone was concerned enough about some signs, symptoms your child was exhibiting to order the test. 

If you are on certain meds, the testing process will generally ask you about those on the intake form. That way those specific substances can be eliminated. To come up with it afterwards as a reason for the failure never, ever looks good.


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## mycrofft (Oct 15, 2008)

*See if hair testing is available.*

Not much if anything I know of which tests false positive for opioids. Even the much vaunted "poppyseed paste rolls" are going to give a very weak positive, if any at all.
Promehazine (Phenergan, an antihistamine) is sometimes used in conjunction with opiates by professionals in valid medical treatments.
Hair testing is not univesally recognized, but the principle is that trace metabolites incorporate into the hair or in the perspiration which coats it then evaporates. This can preserve evidence of metabolic activity, such as excreteing the endproducts of opioids for long periods, the max length determined by the length of hair.


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## stephenrb81 (Oct 15, 2008)

I am thinking along the same lines as BossyCow.  The test saying she was positive for "Morphine" sounds awfully specific and tests that are looking for a SPECIFIC drug are a bit more accurate

A majority of the 'basic' drug screens simply looks for the metabolites of drug types (Opiates, Cannabinoids, Benzodiazepines, Amphetamines, Barbiturates, Cocaine, plus another one I can't remember, the PCP derivitive I believe).  

In the case of morphine, she would've tested positive for Opiates on this type of test but there are many Opiates and it could've been any of those and not necessarily Morphine.

If it was a test specifically looking for morphine than there may have been a reason for them to narrow their search to pinpoint that particular narcotic


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## KEVD18 (Oct 15, 2008)

im going to go out on a limb and say that the op used morphine as an example for opiates in general.

remember guys, the average layperson makes no distinction between opiates and could easily make the jump to call all opiates morphine.


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## stephenrb81 (Oct 15, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> im going to go out on a limb and say that the op used morphine as an example for opiates in general.
> 
> remember guys, the average layperson makes no distinction between opiates and could easily make the jump to call all opiates morphine.



Thats kind of what I figured.  It sounds like it was a test administered under the order of a probation officer which would be the 'Tox-7' (Urine drug screen that looks for the seven above mentioned metabolites).  I just made an attempt at educating and so that its searchable for 'drug tests'


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## knxemt1983 (Oct 16, 2008)

madmommer said:


> during a urine test my daughter came up as positive for morphine.
> i know this is wrong.
> however, she had been given promethazine 25 mg. tablets for nausea.
> is this how the false positive could have happened?
> ...




my question is how do you know that the test is wrong?

I'm not questioning how well you know your daughter, or your parenting by any means, but am just wondering how you know. Have you performed some of the over teh internet drug tests for yourself etc


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 16, 2008)

I ask if they gave her anything else.. maybe a GI cocktail (green lizard, green GI cocktail)? Tastes yucky and numbs the mouth, throat. 

GI cocktail has Donnatol in it and that is a derivative of PhenoBarb that produces anticholenergic effects which may show up as a Barbiturate/Morphine type of medication. 

R/ r911


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## akflightmedic (Oct 16, 2008)

Rid, maybe you may recall this or be on the same email group I am.

I recall several months back about Leavquin causing false positives, especially in these quickie drug screens.

Has she been on this antibiotic. If not, it was a shot in the dark, but I will try to find the information anyways, as it is valuable teaching lesson.


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 16, 2008)

Yeah, I forgot about that. Also the results usually does not come back as "Morphine" rather as opoids, amphetamine, etc... One can get a specific performed. 

R/r 911


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## BossyCow (Oct 16, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Yeah, I forgot about that. Also the results usually does not come back as "Morphine" rather as opoids, amphetamine, etc... One can get a specific performed.
> 
> R/r 911



I am a bit suspicious because this reads like a mom looking to get ammo to have a test tossed out.


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## daedalus (Oct 16, 2008)

How about we stop thinking of things that *might* cause false positives and concentrate on the one thing that *will* cause a positive. We cannot ignore the fastest growing drug problem among teens right now, and that is reaching into the closet at home and finding the bottle of meds for daddy or mommy's surgery three years ago. Patients lie. Get a better history by searching your house and getting the dirt on her friends. Its not a false positive. Your daughter did something.


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## mycrofft (Oct 16, 2008)

*Daedalus, let's form the "Quorum of Gordian Knot".*

Pare it down with Occam's Razor.

Donnatol (aka "Belphen" etc) is phenobarb and belladonna and/or belladonna alkaloids, like atropine. Nothing there to test positive for in an opioid test. And I agree with the crowd, basic level testing short of some Buck Rogers antibody test or mass spectroscopy would not differentiate between opioids, as it is the metabolites which are tested for.


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## akflightmedic (Oct 17, 2008)

daedalus said:


> How about we stop thinking of things that *might* cause false positives and concentrate on the one thing that *will* cause a positive. We cannot ignore the fastest growing drug problem among teens right now, and that is reaching into the closet at home and finding the bottle of meds for daddy or mommy's surgery three years ago. Patients lie. Get a better history by searching your house and getting the dirt on her friends. Its not a false positive. Your daughter did something.




I think by informing her of the things that cause false positives, she will regain her senses and come to the same conclusion we did and realize her daughter did not have any of the false positive scenarios; she did indeed, use some sort of opiate.

How old is your daughter and why was this test ordered? Just curious due to you mentioning your age first.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 17, 2008)

thats sort of what i was saying in my op


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