# Unions, EMS and fire service



## 46Young (Aug 11, 2009)

I've heard numerous complaints as to how FD's are taking over EMS by storm, how they use political influence and propaganda to achieve their goals. As it stands, the EMS community as a whole is greatly outgunned.

So, why not take a page out of the fire service's book and create unions and political organizations similar to the IAFF? Strength in solidarity. The whole "increase educational requirements to justify higher salaries" and such is a great idea, but not likely to work without fire service style politics. 

"But my organization is in a right-to-work state" you say? Virginia, where I live and work, is one of those states. Our union, the IAFF Local 2068 has done a fantastic job using political influence only. The IAFF is hard at work trying to pass a national collective bargaining law. http://www.iaff.org/09News/080709CB.htm

This would be a great help to EMS, as any third service agency could unionize and change their reality for the better. I don't know about you, but I'd sure be tired of being slapped around with low pay, lousy retirement, benefits, working conditions, etc. I couldn't spend my career in fear of losing my job based on the whim of management. I won't tolerate being "owned" by a company. You shouldn't either. Just think, promotions could be based on a score off of a totally objective, unbiased test, just like the fire service. No more of the good ole boy or drinking buddies method of promotion.

The Jamaica/Flushing/Brookdale EMS system attatched themselves to the 1199, a large nursing union in NYC. Their EMS has a pension, collective bargaining, competitive pay in the area with EMT's topping out in the low 20's and medics in the low to mid 30's per hour. Mary Immaculate Hospital's EMS attatched themselves to the Teamster's Union, and enjoyed a similar situation. At least they did before the hospital closed due in large part to a scourge of uncompensated cases.

Sit back and complain about how the fire service gets practically anything and everything they want, or get up off your can and help EMS get it's fair shake. You decide.


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## rescue99 (Aug 11, 2009)

The IAEP could use a few hundred good promoters!


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## 46Young (Aug 11, 2009)

That's a good start. Unfortunately, there are only about 7000 members as per the website. I see your point about needing a few hundred good promoters. 

I'm wondering why there are so few members. several reasons I can think of are that many don't know of the IAEP's existence (this is the first I've heard of the organization), that a good number of those in EMS are either transient (stepping stone) or cannot risk losing their jobs in trying to form a union. 

Our local uses FIREPAC contributions from our paychecks ($5, and it's 100% voluntary) along with a portion of union dues for lobbying, campaign contributions and other forms of legal political influence. If the IAEP were to amass enough members, they could do the same thing with undoubtedly fantastic results.


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## rescue99 (Aug 11, 2009)

The IAEP is part of a bigger organization and still in its youth. I'd love to see it grow but, it needs people to stand together and make it happen..just like all organized groups.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 11, 2009)

I refuse to ever join an union, at least in the traditional sense.  I believe they have no place in health care and I have seen patients suffer because of stupid politics that have led to strikes.


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## karaya (Aug 11, 2009)

I know of numerous third service EMS providers that belong to the IAFF.


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## JPINFV (Aug 11, 2009)

karaya said:


> I know of numerous third service EMS providers that belong to the IAFF.



Talk about the fox guarding the hen house.


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## firecoins (Aug 11, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Talk about the fox guarding the hen house.



I don't think the fox wants to be assocated with the IAFF.


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## medic417 (Aug 11, 2009)

In Texas we have something over 55000 total EMS people of various levels yet the Texas EMSAT only has a few that join.  So guess what no voice when the state or nation decides to rip us another new one.  I am against unions but think an association can benefit us all.  In fact maybe educators should require all students to join which would boast numbers and maybe give credit for being an active member.

http://www.texasemsat.org/


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## rescue99 (Aug 11, 2009)

Notice the post right above this right now..."Why is EMS mixed with Fire"  ???
Irony is a wonderful thing and very entertaining too! Fact is, unions will do for the EMS industry what the IAFF has done to keep firefighters interests in the forefront. People have to take an active role in improving education, safety, whatever. It takes action and it isn't over night.


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## Foxbat (Aug 11, 2009)

Perhaps union would be beneficial, but I never understood _forcing_ people of any occupations into a union that supposedly should protect them. You can say that as a volunteer I can't have an opinion on it, and you'd probably be right. However, I also heard some career firefighters who don't like that in some areas they have to be IAFF members to work for a FD.


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## rescue99 (Aug 11, 2009)

No one "has" to join. People have a right to be exempt from unions (including the IAFF)  however, unions must negotiate for all wages and benefits across the board, member or not. Thus the purpose of "fair share" dues. The firefighters to which you refer can be withdrawn at any time they please. The right to be exempt is federal, not local.


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## triemal04 (Aug 12, 2009)

46Young said:


> So, why not take a page out of the fire service's book and create unions and political organizations similar to the IAFF? Strength in solidarity. The whole "increase educational requirements to justify higher salaries" and such is a great idea, but not likely to work without fire service style politics.
> Absolutely agree.  But, you may have noticed the hypocrisy here (and in another active thread actually) in that people will complain about standards, eduction etc, and complain about people doing nothing but talking about the problem, and yet...at the same time make excuses for why people in EMS can't organize and use the same PR gimmicks and political maneuvers that fire departments do.  Interesting I'd say.
> 
> "But my organization is in a right-to-work state" you say? Virginia, where I live and work, is one of those states. *Our union, the IAFF Local 2068 has done a fantastic job using political influence only.* The IAFF is hard at work trying to pass a national collective bargaining law. http://www.iaff.org/09News/080709CB.htm
> ...


Butbutbutbut...people in EMS are to tired!  They have so much going on that they can't do it!  Unions/associations/PAC's won't change anything!  Waaaaaaah!  Bull:censored::censored::censored::censored:.  How does anyone think fire departments and firefighters got the recognition, job security, comforts, benefits, and political muscle we have today?  By getting off our collective asses and WORKING for it.  And then continuing to work at it not forget about after the initial goal was accomplished.  Does it take personal time, money and effort?  Yep.  Is it worth it?  Yep.  Can EMS do the same?  Hell yeah.  All it takes is people trying and time.  But no...it's better to blame the big bad fire departments for everything and ignore personal culpability.  


rescue99 said:


> The IAEP is part of a bigger organization and still in its youth. I'd love to see it grow but, it needs people to stand together and make it happen..just like all organized groups.


See the above...unfortunately it is a lot easier to complain (see the majority of posts here (many of mine included) for proof) than it is to actually DO something.


medic417 said:


> *In Texas we have something over 55000 total EMS people of various levels yet the Texas EMSAT only has a few that join.*  So guess what no voice when the state or nation decides to rip us another new one.  I am against unions but think an association can benefit us all.  In fact *maybe educators should require all students to join which would boast numbers and maybe give credit for being an active member*.
> 
> http://www.texasemsat.org/


Union...association...doesn't matter.  Once again, having a voice to represent EMS on par with others is nothing but a benefit in the long run.  And requiring everyone to join wouldn't be bad...but it takes more than just sending a check once a year to get things to change.  Be a start though.  


rescue99 said:


> Notice the post right above this right now..."Why is EMS mixed with Fire"  ???
> Irony is a wonderful thing and very entertaining too! Fact is, unions will do for the EMS industry what the IAFF has done to keep firefighters interests in the forefront. People have to take an active role in improving education, safety, whatever. It takes action and it isn't over night.


All it takes is personal time, money, and effort.  But apparently nobody wants to do that because (most likely) the rewards will not be immediate (potentially not even in any of our careers) and it's easier to just complain and blame others.


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## 46Young (Aug 12, 2009)

Triemal04 gets it. That's pretty much why I started this thread. People occasionally ask me why I left NY when I wa making over 30/hr as a medic. NSLIJ is a great place to work, but they have no union, so job security is an issue, and only have a 403b, no pension. If NS had those two things, the two individuals I know may not have left for Fairfax County, I would have never heard of the firemedic position from them, and I would have stayed in NY and probably would have been happy.

I left for Fairfax in large part due to the benefits, pay, pension, so on and so forth. I was clued in as to how fire based EMS has way superior benefits vs EMS only organizations. I did have a desire to try fire, although I would've been happy if I was set for life at a good third service company with similar benefits/job security. I figured that if I didn't like suppression (I happen to like it very much, so it worked out), I would ride the medic unit exclusively, and I'm sure that no one would argue with me.

This place just throws extra money to medics - two steps in pay to start ($5000/yr+), $182.59/pay period just to keep your medic cert current($4747.34/yr - yeah, I know, I couldn't believe it either at first), and either $2/hr to ride the engine or $3 to ride the medic unit, based on a 56 hr workweek. That's an extra $5824-8736/yr. I'm trying to be a tool by mentioning all of that, really. My point is that fire based medics get their butts kissed, basically. EXTRA money for doing the same job you do. I'm trying to light a fire under your butts and cause you to realize that those monies should and could be yours. If these counties and cities can throw extra money to FD's for medics, they can certainly afford to give YOU a better deal, as well as upstaff your workforce appropriately to make your job easier.

I'm hoping to open some eyes to the possibility that EMS can realize the same $$$, bennies, etc. etc. that the fire service enjoys. It requires people to actually DO something. It's time to stop whining about how well the fire service is hooked up and learn from their success. Make it happen!


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## rescue99 (Aug 12, 2009)

46Young said:


> Triemal04 gets it.
> 
> Heyyyy...I git it! My soap box was at the cleaners!


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## 46Young (Aug 12, 2009)

Last post, typo - I meant to say that I'm NOT trying to be a tool by mentioning all of that. My bad.


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