# Im feeling a little lost



## only1jomo (Sep 29, 2008)

Im so confused!!! Im going to be going to EMT bootcamp in February. Im totally excited but Im also very nervous. first off, Im totally out of shape. Do I have to take the CPAt before I can start working as an EMT-B and can I even work as an EMT once I get certified? 

I definately want to go all the way to paramedic and have started a workout program outlined by the Los Angeles Fire Department but Im lost as to the steps I need to take education wise. I apologize if I babbled all threw this but like I said, Im very nervous.

Thanks and have a great/safe day.

Jo


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## mikie (Sep 29, 2008)

only1jomo said:


> \Im totally out of shape. Do I have to take the CPAt before I can start working as an EMT-B and can I even work as an EMT once I get certified?



First, welcome!  CPATs are _usually_ a requirement for [larger] municipal (fire) departments.

You can get your EMT w/o getting a CPAT, it's not a requirement anywhere in the curriculum.  HOWEVER, that is not an excuse for patient moving & lifting skills and keeping yourself healthy (not saying you aren't).

Departments I have worked on do not require a CPAT, so I was able to work without taking one.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't pass it though (well, maybe ;-) )


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## only1jomo (Sep 29, 2008)

You're awesome!!! Thank you so much for responding. I love this site!! I so wouldn't pass it right now. In fact I think they would have to use the jaws of life to get me out of the tunnel part of the test but it's all good. I'll be ready for it. I can't wait to have a job that means something.


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## mikie (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks.  But remember, just because you don't have to take the CPAT test is no excuse for not being in shape.  EMS is one hell of a demanding job!  

Here is a good thread about what time of shape EMTs should be in:

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=7678


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## KEVD18 (Sep 29, 2008)

emt boot camp.... is that some super accelerated emt course?


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## Jon (Sep 29, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> emt boot camp.... is that some super accelerated emt course?


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## KEVD18 (Sep 29, 2008)

well then this is appropriate:


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## only1jomo (Oct 1, 2008)

I 100% agree. I'm definately not about slacking. It's just one less thing to be freaked out about. I'm making this decision later in life (I'm 37) and some days it's easy to second guess yourself. I've been reading other posts and all of you guys have set a lot of my fears at ease. Thank you.


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## only1jomo (Oct 1, 2008)

Yes emt bootcamp is a very intense 2 week course. I get excited just thinking about it!! I can't wait!!!


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Let me be the first of many! You can not learn anything about medicine in a two week course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## only1jomo (Oct 1, 2008)

Speaking of intense training....does anyone have any advise on books, etc..that I could study to get ready?


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## only1jomo (Oct 1, 2008)

I agree with you too...I've been taking other classes too. The bootcamp is mainly to prepare me for the NREMT.


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## Sapphyre (Oct 1, 2008)

Um, UCLA?  Did you already take an EMT class?  I'm only asking because, well, if you don't learn it in school, your job is NOT going to teach you.


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## KEVD18 (Oct 1, 2008)

only1jomo said:


> I agree with you too...I've been taking other classes too. The bootcamp is mainly to prepare me for the NREMT.



which it will arguably do. furthermore, while you very well may be able to retain enough information to pass the test, its statistically unlikely that you will actually retain that information over time.

i know im not going to talk you out of a shake and bake emt course, so im not going to try. just be prepared to be completely and totally lost 6 months after your course.

sorry, but theres a few things i dont sugar coat. this is one of them. unless one of the "other courses" you're taking is another emt course, they may prove to be of negligible value.


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## only1jomo (Oct 1, 2008)

I appreciate and welcome your honesty. That's why I'm here. I am also taking classes with Los Angeles County Regional Occupational Program and I will be taking classes at UCLA. I have some learning disabilities that mean I have to do things a little differently. I have found that when I include many different types of educational tools I ace whatever I'm doing.


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## SmokeyBear (Oct 1, 2008)

only1jomo said:


> Yes emt bootcamp is a very intense 2 week course. I get excited just thinking about it!! I can't wait!!!



Were you in the military or something? I have never heard of any accelerated programs except a couple newer programs specifically designed for people who learned much of the same material in the service. Two weeks seems AWFULLY condensed as well--if you dont mind my asking, what state do you live in?


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

SmokeyBear said:


> Were you in the military or something? I have never heard of any accelerated programs except a couple newer programs specifically designed for people who learned much of the same material in the service. Two weeks seems AWFULLY condensed as well--if you dont mind my asking, what state do you live in?



Well if you think about it, EMT-Bs are very very basic. Splint this, push up and down real fast here, 02 and transport.

My instructor always taught the test because the real learning is really out in the field.


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> Let me be the first of many! You can not learn anything about medicine in a two week course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Dont you think posts like that are rather discouraging? Instead of tut-tuting his educational choices and telling him that you dont approve why not welcome him into the tribe? Whether it be a 6 month or a 2 week course, they still have to pass the same state test.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Please tell me what part of FL you are in? I still have family in FL and want to make ure they are safe!!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

Excuse me?


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Did I stutter? 

If you believe that a 2 week EMT course can produce a qualified person to treat any injury, then I want to make sure my family is not close by.

A monkey can pass a test, doesn't mean he knows what he is doing!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> Did I stutter?



Nope, I was hoping you were above personal insults.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

It is not an insult. I just want my family safe and treated by EMS professionals that think education is a good thing.


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> It is not an insult. I just want my family safe and treated by EMS professionals that think education is a good thing.



You see? Insult, at least the way I take it.

I do think education is a good thing, but I also dont think that we should sit here and tut tut at other peoples choices. Who are you to say he wont be qualified? Do you know his background? The knowledge he already has? And like I said, EMT is pretty basic. It doesnt take a genius to be an EMT. He has to pass the same state test that any other EMT has to pass to be qualified and if the test qualifies him, guess what, that makes him an EMT.

An EMT can: Splint, dress, bandage, CPR, use an AED, take a blood pressure, take a history, take a pulse rate, take a BGL, use oral glucose, suction, put someone on a backboard, assist with a spray of nitro or MDI, Call ALS, and drive. It doesnt take six months to teach that. Especially when some of it like CPR and AED training are prereqs for most EMT courses and EVOC is completely seperate (at least in my area.) 

Face it. Basics are BASIC. 

Its pretty sad when others chose to be discouraging and judgemental rather than supportive and encouraging towards new upcoming EMTs.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Sasha said:


> It doesnt take a genius to be an EMT. He has to pass the same state test that any other EMT has to pass to be qualified and if the test qualifies him, guess what, that makes him an EMT.
> 
> .



And people on here wonder why there is a push to do away with the Basic?

Hopefully, by the time you finish medic school, you will see what is wrong with that statement!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> And people on here wonder why there is a push to do away with the Basic?
> 
> Hopefully, by the time you finish medic school, you will see what is wrong with that statement!



Hopefully in time you will see the importance of being encouraging to incoming EMTs.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

I am very encouraging to ones that take education seriously! A 2 week accelerated course is not taking it seriously!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> I am very encouraging to ones that take education seriously! A 2 week accelerated course is not taking it seriously!



Who are you to judge? Who died and made you state medical director?


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Who are you to judge? Who died and made you state medical director?



Someone that has 20 years of education and experience. I can't count the number of EMT's that I have seen quit or be run out of EMS, because they did not receive the education they needed.

If I just needed skills preformed, I could teach a monkey to do that. I would prefer someone who knows why they are preforming the skills and why it is needed.

I have had great EMT partners, who are now great medics. I have also had partners that were nothing more then a chauffeur. I am not a medic that doesn't let their EMT partner do anything. I like my partners to be interactive with the Pt's. For this, they must have an education behind their skills.

How many posts are on this site form people that had a 2 or 4 week course and now they don't understand why they can't pass a simple test. 

You may not respect my way of thinking and that is fine. Ask this same question to anyone on here that you do respect. They will tell you the same thing.


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## Oregon (Oct 1, 2008)

Sasha said:


> An EMT can: Splint, dress, bandage, CPR, use an AED, take a blood pressure, take a history, take a pulse rate, take a BGL, use oral glucose, suction, put someone on a backboard, assist with a spray of nitro or MDI, Call ALS, and drive. It doesnt take six months to teach that. Especially when some of it like CPR and AED training are prereqs for most EMT courses and EVOC is completely seperate (at least in my area.)
> 
> Face it. Basics are BASIC.
> 
> .


Hmmm.   Right, it didn't take six months for me to learn how to do those things (though my State lets us basics do a couple of other monkey skills too.)  It took me six months to learn why to do those skills, and when to do those skills, and most importantly when not to do those skills.
And another 18 months to learn more about why and when on the job.
Asking questions every time when I do turn my patients over to ALS, or when I'm assisting a medic team.


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

Oregon said:


> Hmmm.   Right, it didn't take six months for me to learn how to do those things (though my State lets us basics do a couple of other monkey skills too.)  It took me six months to learn why to do those skills, and when to do those skills, and most importantly when not to do those skills.
> And another 18 months to learn more about why and when on the job.
> Asking questions every time when I do turn my patients over to ALS, or when I'm assisting a medic team.



But does it really take six months to do that? I think not. You should always take a BP, pulse, history and BGL. It doesnt take six months to memorize what a normal sugar is and what the contraindications to oral glucose are(and that it tastes like crap!), or when you should backboard someone, when to do CPR, when to use an AED (Hey, its automated. Hook it up and it will tell you to shock or not to shock! [Little guideline though, if a patient asks _Hey! What are those?_ it is not time to shock! ) and what kind of BP is appropriate for some nitro.

My point of the whole thing is, instead of telling someone who comes here stating he is confused and excited and lost that you basically think his class of choice is a joke, try to be supportive. Wish him well, let him know if he has questions that this is the forum to go too.


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## Oregon (Oct 1, 2008)

*It's more than skills, it's judgement*



Sasha said:


> But does it really take six months to do that? I think not. You should always take a BP, pulse, history and BGL. It doesnt take six months to memorize what a normal sugar is and what the contraindications to oral glucose are(and that it tastes like crap!), or when you should backboard someone, when to do CPR, when to use an AED (Hey, its automated. Hook it up and it will tell you to shock or not to shock! [Little guideline though, if a patient asks _Hey! What are those?_ it is not time to shock! ) and what kind of BP is appropriate for some nitro.
> 
> My point of the whole thing is, instead of telling someone who comes here stating he is confused and excited and lost that you basically think his class of choice is a joke, try to be supportive. Wish him well, let him know if he has questions that this is the forum to go too.



Oh, any way that someone wants to get their feet wet is fine for me, more power to you if that is the way you can get it in your head.

But I might add that I totally disagree with the always take a BP/BGL/Pulse thing.   I rarely work where I have immediate ALS backup.  Heck, sometimes it's hours away.  What good is it going to do my dehydrated, hungry hypothermic patient with a possible spinal injury to get a BGL on him?
Pulse?  If he has one, great.  
Out in the middle of nowhere, it's just little old me and my judgement.  From seeing hundreds of patients, both in classroom dictated clinicals and going out and getting hands on as much as I possibly can. 
 My very first patient after my six month class was mine alone, with two First Responders as my backup.  We walked something like 5 miles to find him, and another two to get him out...I'm glad I had six months of almost daily learning to prepare myself for him.  
It might be different if I was doing a different kind of EMT stuff, but most of the time the patients I've got have me, and me alone for hours as their sole medical help.  EMT B, with paramedics hiking their way in and giving me directions on the radio if we are lucky, and I say we need them.  I needed all of those 6 months.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

What exactly is a normal BGL? You are going to give NTG without an IV?

We are trying to pull EMT's away from cookbook medicine.


I told the OP what I thought about the course, so maybe he would think twice about taking it. I know CA has plenty of good EMT schools to go to! I know FL does, just not all over!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> What exactly is a normal BGL? You are going to give NTG without an IV?
> 
> We are trying to pull EMT's away from cookbook medicine.
> 
> ...



Last I checked, EMTs cant start an IV.

I actually attended one of the biggest EMT programs in the state with the highest first run NREMT pass rate. I went to school for around eight months, thanks. 

I highly doubt your opinion would sway the OP.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Last I checked, EMTs cant start an IV.
> 
> I actually attended one of the biggest EMT programs in the state with the highest first run NREMT pass rate. I went to school for around eight months, thanks.
> 
> I highly doubt your opinion would sway the OP.



IV's depend on the county and that is why you should not be giving NTG!

What school would that be? I do not judge a school on their pass rate.

That is the OP's decision. He came here for advice and got it. I am not going to hand him a sucker and say goodboy!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> IV's depend on the county and that is why you should not be giving NTG!
> 
> What school would that be? I do not judge a school on their pass rate.
> 
> That is the OP's decision. He came here for advice and got it. I am not going to hand him a sucker and say goodboy!




My protocols allow you to assist a patient with their own nitro if their blood pressure is above a certain point and they have not had any viagra or similar drugs in the past 48 hours.

Im not going to disclose my school information, that, of course, is private.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

If it is that good, why would it be private? Maybe there are people on here from FL that might be looking for a good school!


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## Sasha (Oct 1, 2008)

reaper said:


> If it is that good, why would it be private? Maybe there are people on here from FL that might be looking for a good school!



If they are interested in a good school they can do their research like I did.

It is a fantastic school, however its also MY personal information. There are a ton of whackos out there.


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## reaper (Oct 1, 2008)

Ok. You're call.


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## Ridryder911 (Oct 1, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Who are you to judge? Who died and made you state medical director?



I will judge and be jury. Comprehension is one of the key factors of being successful in medicine. Yes, even medical school material is rushed through but the difference is those that are able to do so, have been properly screened and tested that their reading comprehension and ability to retain is far above those of the normal person. 

Shake & bake EMT's are dangerous. EMS is not all about skills. This is one of the reasons so many confuse the actions and responsibility of EMT's in general. The skills of an EMT can be learned by anyone with enough repetitious practice, again the main emphasis is the *why, how and what if's?*

I have been a professional educator in EMS for over 25 years. I have yet seen any EMT say or describe that their EMT course was too long in length. If one would, I would say that they obviously have a poor understanding of emergency medicine. 

In the real world the minimal amount of time allowable for an EMT course would be at the least one year. 

Let me ask, how truly competent do you really think this type of EMT will be? How much lab time have they had to "*master*" the skills? Do you really think during this time, they were able to *master *all of the objectives and which ones are not important to master? The AMI, the choking baby, the trauma patient.....? 

In the real world, real emergency setting there is NOT a place to review, recall or even ask what to do? It must be done in split second think, no guessing, not approximating, and all has to be perfect, each and every time. This only comes with time of absorbing the material, and as was mentioned repetitious rehearsing and practicing the skills, so all of it becomes second nature and instantaneously. 

There is NO room for error. This is not a Wendy's were a wrong order or small fries vs. large is the worst thing possible. *This is medical care and treatment to human beings, by not having an adequate knowledge base, or poor performance may and will affect them permanently or cause death! *

*No substitutions or short cuts should even be considered or ever be allowed!*

You want to be a professional, then one has to pay the price of being one. Do it the right way or not at all!

R/r 911


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## ffemt8978 (Oct 1, 2008)

That's enough of this one.


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