# Working in EMS with a Felony Record



## doccamden

Good morning every one;

I have found like any other industry in the United States it is difficult for some one with a Felony conviction to gain employment. After a period of over 10 years (arrested in 1993 and convicted in 1994 released in 1995 off  of supervision since 1997) I find that in 2010 the State and some transport companies are very harsh against a person who made a bad judgement. Almost 20 years since I have been arrested and some EMT's have DWI's and Traffic issues (which I never had... I dont drink or smoke intoxicants) and yet there is almost an impossibility of aquiring a 911 job. Does any one have any simular stories and suggested solutions (btw expungment is out of the question because of the nature of the crime) Just one more thing if the state will approve me (and I hope the government standards should be the bench mark...) why cant there be some consideration.


----------



## nemedic

I know that most just see that "F" word on the application, and toss it. Some might work with you, depending on what the charge was, time since, and the remainder of your record. The thing you have to look at though is that the market for EMTs is pretty well saturated with the stuggling economy and people turning to it after leaving another career. So companies that might have been willing to "take a chance" on someone with a record probably wont now that the applicant pool is so saturated especially if you are an EMT-B. You could also try going to court and trying to get the conviction expunged so that it wont appear on a background check. Though I am not a lawyer, and did not stay in a holiday inn express last night, so seek competent counsel and not rely on an opinion from an anonymous person over the internet. Also, companies might overlook some traffic violations for new hires. DWI/DUI and some serious traffic issues generally is an automatic NOGO. If they are already on the job, they might just get suspended, depends on the company.


----------



## 8jimi8

if expunction is out of the question, you could look at a petition of non-disclosure, but the state EMS board will still have access to it.  That procedure just makes it so that private entities are not privy to your history.


----------



## firecoins

It can be unfortunate.  At this point, it probably should not be considered.  However we gointo people's homes, deal with people at their weakest and have access to drugs and valuables. Few can justify hiring ex felons to do this.


----------



## doccamden

firecoins said:


> It can be unfortunate.  At this point, it probably should not be considered.  However we gointo people's homes, deal with people at their weakest and have access to drugs and valuables. Few can justify hiring ex felons to do this.



Then the state should have never certified me, the recitvism rates exist based on the fact that there is a lack of education, oppertunity, and the fact that matters of employment if the crime doesnt relate to liability at a paticular job then this shouldnt have bearing. Case in point (just for dialog not to make this a soap box issue) a person can be convicted on theif by deception for selling boot leg clothing ( you can see this at any flea market of your choice) you are hired by a store and as a manager you are in charge, how ever you dont know whats real or fake, cant tell whats a real Hilfiger or Nickfiga lol. Yet you can be convicted for felony conspiracy Theft by deception... I have seen that many people are forced to accept pleas due to the fact they cant fight court cases because of poverty, and lack of other resources. The justice system is really flawed unless you got $. Personally I think that after some time or the relative matters of the crime should be considered and detail on a back ground check.


----------



## Veneficus

The idea of measuring people based on the past is a bit flawed I agree. After all, it completely eliminates the possibility of redemption, while rewarding those who have never been caught doing something. (case in point a firefighter in my home town was convicted of being a serial rapist over 10 years) however, he had not been caught earlier so his background check was clean and many of the women claimed they didn't file charges initially because nobody would believe they were raped by such an upstanding member of the community.

I have seen a few very good providers get turned down over past indiscetions. (Like past substance abuse and not convicted of a crime)

But it is what it is. 

As it was said, EMTs are a dime a dozen. You have to decide if you are going to fight the system or if you would be better off on another path. If you are really passionate about medicine, perhaps the military might offer some opportunities.

Good luck in your endeavors.


----------



## WolfmanHarris

It's unfortunate that so many doors are closed to you and as an individual you have my sympathy. I appreciate how hard it must be to have poor decisions from decades ago dogging you through life; however those are the consequences. Like many professions that rely on the public trust, it is in the best interest of Paramedicine to bar anyone with a criminal record from practice. For that reason I must say that I do not wish to see you, or someone with a DUI, or someone with a juvenile record, or any other indiscretion that discredits them as a member of my profession as a practising Paramedic.

That is not to say I don't wish you personally the best in life, but this door is and should in my mind remain closed.


----------



## nemedic

doccamden said:


> Personally I think that after some time or the relative matters of the crime should be considered and detail on a back ground check.



I agree with you, but companies are able to be much more selective than in the past. With the applicant pool so large, they'll use just about anything even remotely negative to rule people out. Good luck in your search.


----------



## FLEMTP

Paramedics and EMT's should be subjected to the same background and hiring standards that Law Enforcement Officers are subjected to. This means that anyone with a Felony record should be barred from working in EMS. There are just too many trust issues and as far as Im concerned it is a Character issue. 

Would you want a convicted felon working on you or your family?


----------



## reaper

We cannot offer you advice without knowing the whole story.

If you were convicted of theft by deception, for selling fake clothes, I would not have a problem with it. If you were arrested for armed robbery or assault, Don't even bother applying!

It all does matter and you will live with your life choices forever.


----------



## Veneficus

How about stealing food to feed your sister's starving child? 

This is getting a little to Javert like for me. Especially since there are places in the world where speaking against the government is a felony punishable by death. 

Also, if you remove any chance for felons to reintegrate ito society, you leave them no alternative but crime.

How about a missionary convicted of human trafficing for removing kids from disaster zones?

Drug mules to feed their family?

absolute exclusion is nothing more than tyranny


----------



## reaper

Veneficus said:


> How about stealing food to feed your sister's starving child? If explained, it can be worked out!
> This is getting a little to Javert like for me. Especially since there are places in the world where speaking against the government is a felony punishable by death. Again, explain why!
> Also, if you remove any chance for felons to reintegrate ito society, you leave them no alternative but crime. Some will never have that chance, due to the crime they committed. Would you want a convicted mass murder coming into you home, when you are alone? Not going to put the public in that jeopardy!How about a missionary convicted of human trafficing for removing kids from disaster zones? Depends on situation!Drug mules to feed their family? Not in a million years! If they are willing to do it, they are willing to do anything for money! They had other choices in life!absolute exclusion is nothing more than tyranny


I agree, every case is different and that is why you must know the situation, before offering advice!


Life is never absolute. But, you live with the choices you make!


----------



## Veneficus

Veneficus said:


> Drug mules to feed their family?



Not trying to attack anyone, but just some perspective to consider.

I am not talking about sophisticated smugglers, I mean the really low people who get paid almost nothing and forfeit their lives should they fail.

Unfortunately such a level of poverty exists in the US today that some do have to chose between this and their children eating. Their other options are usually equally as bad, like prostitution.

What some have to resort to to survive is tragic. I saw an article on the local news last week about 13 and 14 year old girls prostituting themselves because their families were poor and the harassment they got from other students in school for not having things like cell phones and brandname cloths was so bad that selling themsleves to fit in was in their mind the lesser of two evils. When interviewed the school officials denied witnessing any harassment. In your local town you really think the star quarterback or cheerleader will be severely punished for their choice to torment or torture the less fortunate? How about the mayor's kids? The Police officer's? Would be a shame to "wreck their lives because they have so much potential for poor decisions in youth." A slap on the wrist for people wrecking other peoples lives in a way that can never be returned to normal. 


The puropse of society is to protect people who have similar traits and values. It is neither equal nor just. By design it is exclusionary. For as "civilized" as we become some base aspects of primate nature will never go away.

Unfortunately in the US today, many will not even have a chance to explain their circumstances. Even if they get that opportunity, whether or not the explanation to a potential employer is acceptable is subjective.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

If you where a non violent or sexual offender and the charges were not drug related, and its been a decade with no criminal history, your getting shafted in my mind. Like you said... why would the state even grant you a cert? If the state looked at what you did and granted you a cert that shows something.

It might not be easy and you might have to relocate, but I would bet there is something out there for you if you really want to pursue the time and effort.  Just be honest about your history and maybe get some good letters of of recommendation IMO.

Something else to think about. We have a local EMS agency that only handles drug and alcohol related calls and brings the patients to detox. Its called CHEIRS and they are ran by a place called central city concerns.  They prefer to hire people in special target groups, such as ex cons, drug and etoh abuse hx, ect ect. Its worth looking into in your area.


----------



## ffemt8978

schulz said:


> If you where a non violent or *sexual offende**r *and the charges were not drug related, and its been a decade with no criminal history, your getting shafted in my mind. Like you said... why would the state even grant you a cert? If the state looked at what you did and granted you a cert that shows something.
> 
> It might not be easy and you might have to relocate, but I would bet there is something out there for you if you really want to pursue the time and effort.  Just be honest about your history and maybe get some good letters of of recommendation IMO.
> 
> Something else to think about. We have a local EMS agency that only handles drug and alcohol related calls and brings the patients to detox. Its called CHEIRS and they are ran by a place called central city concerns.  They prefer to hire people in special target groups, such as ex cons, drug and etoh abuse hx, ect ect. Its worth looking into in your area.


Wait, are you seriously advocating that convicted sex offenders be allowed to deal with patients?  Don't we, as an industry, have enough problems with EMS personnel sexually assaulting patients in the back of an ambulance?


----------



## ExpatMedic0

sorry that was a typo. where NOT one of those things. NOT a sexual or violent offender.


----------



## 281mustang

"Felony convition" doesn't tell us much of anything, what exactly were you convicted of?


----------



## firecoins

doccamden said:


> Then the state should have never certified me, the recitvism rates exist based on the fact that there is a lack of education, oppertunity, and the fact that matters of employment if the crime doesnt relate to liability at a paticular job then this shouldnt have bearing. Case in point (just for dialog not to make this a soap box issue) a person can be convicted on theif by deception for selling boot leg clothing ( you can see this at any flea market of your choice) you are hired by a store and as a manager you are in charge, how ever you dont know whats real or fake, cant tell whats a real Hilfiger or Nickfiga lol. Yet you can be convicted for felony conspiracy Theft by deception... I have seen that many people are forced to accept pleas due to the fact they cant fight court cases because of poverty, and lack of other resources. The justice system is really flawed unless you got $. Personally I think that after some time or the relative matters of the crime should be considered and detail on a back ground check.


Let it be known I don't think its fair.  I just understand the thinking.  I hope you can find a place of of employment.


----------



## firecoins

ffemt8978 said:


> Wait, are you seriously advocating that convicted sex offenders be allowed to deal with patients?  Don't we, as an industry, have enough problems with EMS personnel sexually assaulting patients in the back of an ambulance?


teenagers who text naked pictures of themselves are being convicted as sex offenders.  Can we be more specific?


----------



## John E

*Hmmm...*

"Then the state should have never certified me..."

Did the state put a gun to your head and force you to apply for certification?

If you're gonna make an argument that you should be allowed to work with a felony conviction on your record, then argue the merits of your particular situation, claiming that "the state" is at fault for certifying you is a simple refusal to accept the consequences of your own actions.

Were you wrongly convicted? Fight it. Were you wrongly or incorrectly punished? Fight it. But if you did the crime and you knew it was against the law, accept the consequences and do what you can to get your life on the track you want it to be on and quit blaming others for your own failings.

John E


----------



## WolfmanHarris

For the record, in the province of Ontario you can not work as a Paramedic with a criminal record that demonstrates "moral terptitude." Essentially the province will not let you work as a medic with a record. Nor can you of you have greater than 6 demerits points on your license (two mild speeding tickets or one more serious violation). This is the minimum. No service will employ you in Ontario with anything but a clean criminal record and vulnerable sector check and less than 3 demerits on your DL.


----------



## mycrofft

*Doccamden, use the system.*

Get a lawyer, see if there is a way to beat it, then decide if it is worth the price and the fight. Simple, not easy.

Even if it is somehow prestidigitated off the record, you will be asked by employers and the folks who will insure or bond you if you EVER were convicted. Then you need to stop and explain.

Like stepping out a moving vehicle, some things can't be done over. If it was BS, then prove it. If it was true, then you are stuck with the sequelae, and maybe throw your efforts elsewhere rather than obsessing.

Besides, EMS can be a knowledge set, not just a lifestyle or a profession.


----------



## FLEMTP

I see no problem with felons re-integrating into society at all, in fact, im a huge advocate of it. With that said, there are some areas of society a felon should never be allowed to participate in again. When you become a felon, you lose your right to vote, you lose your right to own a firearm, and you also lose the ability or opportunity to work in certain areas of society and in certain professions. You cannot be a police officer, in most cases a firefighter, and you should not be allowed to work in EMS, or the medical field for starters.
There are many many careers and professions open to people, and I encourage felons to apply themselves in one of those other careers, but as I said before, I do NOT want a convicted felon to be working on me or my family, or in my house trying to put out a fire, or ESPECIALLY enforcing the laws of the land. I also personally believe that a felony should preclude you from holding ANY elected or appointed political office, irregardless of WHAT the felony is.

 In the state of Florida, if you commit certain misdemeanors three times or more, they upgrade you to habitual offender status and subsequent misdemeanors you commit of the same type each  becomes a felony count, for example, prostitution, or driving while license suspended, or even passing a bad check. Irregardless, a felony is a felony is a felony. It doesn't matter HOW you got to a felony offender status is irrelevant, it is the fact that you did get convicted of a felony.


----------



## VentMedic

doccamden said:


> Good morning every one;
> 
> I have found like any other industry in the United States it is *difficult for some one with a Felony conviction to gain employment.* After a period of over 10 years (arrested in 1993 and convicted in 1994 released in 1995 off of supervision since 1997) I find that in 2010 the State and some transport companies are very harsh against a person who made a bad judgement. Almost 20 years since I have been arrested and some EMT's have DWI's and Traffic issues (which I never had... I dont drink or smoke intoxicants) and yet there is almost an impossibility of aquiring a 911 job. Does any one have any simular stories and suggested solutions (*btw expungment is out of the question because of the nature of the crime*) Just one more thing if the state will approve me (and I hope the government standards should be the bench mark...) why cant there be some consideration.


 
Have you been unemployed for twenty years? Have you sought out professions and education to improve your chances at other careers during the past 20 years?

The crimes that are excluded from expungment are pretty serious. Even one well known doctor and author who is worshipped in EMS for his famous book lost his medical license when convicted of one of those crimes. 


These are the crimes in Florida that are not eligible for expungement.

Luring or Enticing a Child - F.S. 787.025
Sexual Battery and related offense - Chapter 794
Procuring person under 18 for prostitution - F.S. 796.03
Lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of persons less than 16 years of age - F.S. 800.04
Voyeurism – F.S. 810.14
Violations of the Florida Communications Fraud Act (Scheme to defraud or Organized Fraud as defined in F.S. 817.034)
Lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of an elderly person or disabled adult - F.S. 825.1025
Sexual Performance by a child - F.S. 827.071
Sexual misconduct with mentally deficient or mentally ill defendant and related offenses. A violation of any offense qualify for registration as a sexual predator under F.S. 775.21 or for registration as a sexual offender under F.S. 943.0435.
Offenses by public officers and employees - Chapter 839
Giving/showing/transmitting/loaning obscene materials to a minor - F.S. 847.0133
Computer pornography(child related) - F.S. 847.0135
Selling or buying of minors - F.S. 847.0145
Drug Trafficking (Trafficking in Controlled Substances) - F.S. 893.135 (This does not include possession)
Violations of Pretrial detention or release - F.S. 907.041
Arson - F.S. 806.01
Aggravated Assault - F.S. 784.021
Aggravated Battery - F.S. 784.045
Illegal use of explosives - F.S. 790.001
Child abuse or aggravated child abuse- Chapter 827
Abuse of elderly person or disabled adult, or aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult
Aircraft Piracy
Kidnapping - Chapter 787
Homicide - Chapter 782
Manslaughter - F.S. 782.07
Robbery - F.S. 812.13
Carjacking - F.S. 812.133
Sexual activity with a child, who is 12 years of age or older, but less than 18 years of age, by or at solicitation of a person in familial or custodial authority - F.S. 827.071
Burglary of a dwelling - F.S. 810.02
Stalking and aggravated stalking - F.S. 784.048
Act of Domestice Violence as defined in F.S. 741.28
Home invasion robbery - F.S. 812.135
Act of terrorism as defined by F.S. 775.30
Manufacturing any substances in violation of chapter 893
Attempting or conspiring to committ any of the above crimes



8jimi8 said:


> if expunction is out of the question, you could look at a petition of non-disclosure, but the state EMS board will still have access to it. That procedure just makes it so that private entities are not privy to your history.


 
I would not want anyone convicted of one of the above crimes not disclosing that information.



doccamden said:


> Then the state should have never certified me, the recitvism rates exist based on the fact that there is a lack of education, oppertunity, and the fact that matters of employment if the crime doesnt relate to liability at a paticular job then this shouldnt have bearing.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> Personally I think that after some time or the relative matters of the crime should be considered and detail on a back ground check.


 
If the state certified you, then they did take into consideration of your background. Now you would just have to find an employer that is as tolerant. However, if the state did not do a background check or you did not disclose any informaton assuming they would do a check, then that is a whole different issue. 

Did you also take the NREMT? This is their felony policy:
https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/policy_felony.asp


----------



## DarthMalachi

In 1999, I was convicted of a class A1 misdemeanor(one step below a felony), as outlined in the general statutes of North Carolina.
The crime was of a self-defense nature, and I was ill-advised by my lawyer to accept a plea and not try the case.  Being young and the first time I'd EVER been in trouble, I relied on the bad advice.
Subsequently, I was certified by NC not longer than 2 months after conviction, and practiced as not only a basic, but an intermediate as well.  I was able to produce character references and an explanation of circumstances, as required by the NC OEMS.
I had no trouble finding work, once I explained the situation.
I can sympathize, though, with the OP's situation, having been there in some degree myself.
With that being said, certain felonies are, and SHOULD be, adequate cause for denial of certification as an EMT, and therefore, employment as such.


----------



## WolfmanHarris

To add some further perspective from another jurisdiction: in order to enter a Primary Care Paramedic program in Ontario or at the very least before starting any clinical placement or preceptorship the student must present a clear criminal records check with vulnerable sector screening before each semester. 

Part of becoming a profession and being taken seriously as such is setting standards for entry to practise that protects the public and the reputation of Paramedicine. It's not the only thing, but I'm not going to threadjack.


----------



## FLEMTP

WolfmanHarris said:


> To add some further perspective from another jurisdiction: in order to enter a Primary Care Paramedic program in Ontario or at the very least before starting any clinical placement or preceptorship the student must present a clear criminal records check with vulnerable sector screening before each semester.
> 
> Part of becoming a profession and being taken seriously as such is setting standards for entry to practise that protects the public and the reputation of Paramedicine. It's not the only thing, but I'm not going to threadjack.



I feel that the US needs to adopt this as standard practice with any and every EMS agency, mandated at the state level. I envy you folks in canada, you do EMS much better than we do here in the states IMHO when it comes to the level of professionalism expected and demanded from its personnel.


----------



## phideux

I know here in South Carolina, we were required to go through a background check, and a drug test before we could even start the EMT class. And then, before the state issued my card, I had to do a background check again. If you have your heart set on being an EMT, hire a lawyer and see if you can get your record expunged.


----------



## Nick647

In my eyes, it really depends what the crime was.  If it was a sex offense, no way or anything of that nature, absolutely not, as well as hurting other people.  If it was a drug felony, I feel it depends on the person and how long ago and how/if they shaped up.  If they have remained sober and/or clean from it and have committed to keeping like that and have an honest and positive attitude about their future, I would say give it a shot.  If it had to do with hurting another person in a real bad way, absolutely not.   If its an assault misdermeader, you could maybe work with them. The whole point of EMS, FD and PD is to ease other peoples suffering and to make the world a better place.  To me, it has to do with honesty, owning up to your mistakes, and accepting the consequences, that is if you have a record.


----------



## firecoins

becareful about sex offenses. There are things people get convicted of and labeled sex offenders despite not really being so.  Example; teenagers sexting nude photos of themselves to their significant others. Police are cracking down on these teens. It gets listed under child pornography and the teenagers are listed as sexual predators.


----------



## Nick647

Yeah, I didnt mean to blatently bring that subject up. I think as a whole, with felony and ems jobs, it really depends and how have you improved.


----------



## WolfmanHarris

Nick647 said:


> Yeah, I didnt mean to blatently bring that subject up. I think as a whole, with felony and ems jobs, it really depends and how have you improved.



Couldn't disagree more. A felony is by definition a serious crime. Decisions have consequences and sometimes all the effort and best intentions don't make those go away. Sometimes a door is closed and it is certainly not the role of this profession to provide rehabilitation for people who have made mistakes. Our job is to provide patient care and to ensure we have and maintain the public's trust. We cannot do that by allowing people with criminal records to join our ranks.


----------



## Nick647

My apologies.  I see your point and now that i do, i agree with it.  Thank you for your insight. My bad if I offended anybody, and know that I have a clearer perspective on what felony is, I understand too.  Thanks.  I think you are right that if somebody has committed a serious crime, they shouldnt have the right to serve in the ranks such as this.  Thank you.


----------



## Nick647

In the end, I wouldnt want someone who has a history of hurting others in my house and helping me. Id want someone who professional tendencies who are compassionate.


----------



## Tonester

If possible, get your felony reduced to a misdemeanor. In California, PC 17 allows certain offenses to be reduced to misdemeanor. Then get the expungement. 

Example: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/other/crimlawclean.htm#eligible

The expungement by itself is pretty worthless in my opinion unless you get the reduction to go along with it. So even if you did have to report the conviction, you could legally state you have never been convicted of a felony just a misdemeanor.


----------



## firetender

I'll chime in after I hear from the OP. The crime you were convicted of DOES make a difference, but only in how others perceive it. I will say it will take some doing, but if it's important to you, you'll do it.


----------



## EMSLaw

You didn't really tell us anything about the situation that would be helpful.  What state you're in, for example, or what the offense was.  If you don't want to, that's fine, but we can't really tell you anything.  Besides, everyone here can blow sunshine up your skirt all they want, and that won't get you a job.

In New Jersey, indictable offenses (felonies) require a 10-year waiting period prior to expungement, and you cannot have any prior or subsequent convictions for another felony, or for more than two disorderly or petty disorderly persons offenses (misdemeanors and "petty" misdemeanors).  There are a list of convictions that can't be expunged, and, as Vent pointed out, all of them are serious.  There are other statutory requirements as well.

Yes, life is tough for people with felony convictions on their records.  They can't get many student loans, sometimes can't vote, and have a list of civil disabilities that vary by state.  If you've been clean for thirteen years, as you say, you might consider applying for a pardon, or a certificate of rehabilitation, or certificate of relief from disabilities, or whatever your state might call it.  But as far as finding a job with an EMS agency...  I'm sorry to say, good luck, you'll need it.

And how did this become the topic de jour?  We've had multiple threads on this same subject lately.


----------



## FLEMTP

EMSLaw said:


> And how did this become the topic de jour?  We've had multiple threads on this same subject lately.



I think its because there are so many laws on the books nowadays.. virtually anything is a crime anymore...and more people are finding themselves in a situation where they are accused of a crime or find themselves convicted of a crime, but yet want to pursue their dreams or goals despite that.

 Im not saying its hard to not commit a crime..because obviously there are people who can do it, myself included.. but as an example... if you screw up and mis balance your checkbook, and inadvertently bounce a check, thats a crime, intentional or not.

I think also the level of technology today makes law enforcement more aware of crimes being committed and makes it easier to prosecute and present evidence that a crime was committed.

I also feel that this country is turning into a nanny state.. where the government is regulating every aspect of our lives "for our own good"

Case in point.. 100 years ago.. it was common for a 14 year old girl and a 19 year old man to marry and have kids, etc. These days that gets you locked in jail and listed as a registered sex offender. Im not advocating any criminal behavior or advocating the prosecution of this... just showing an example of how things have changed.


----------



## EMSLaw

FLEMTP said:


> Im not saying its hard to not commit a crime..because obviously there are people who can do it, myself included.. but as an example... if you screw up and mis balance your checkbook, and inadvertently bounce a check, thats a crime, intentional or not.
> 
> ...
> 
> Case in point.. 100 years ago.. it was common for a 14 year old girl and a 19 year old man to marry and have kids, etc. These days that gets you locked in jail and listed as a registered sex offender. Im not advocating any criminal behavior or advocating the prosecution of this... just showing an example of how things have changed.



Bouncing a check isn't a criminal offense.  Most of the time, bad check cases come out of people writing checks on closed accounts.  Even then, there are usually multiple demands for payment before anything criminal comes of it.

As for marriageable age, that depends on state law.  There are still places you can marry that young, IIRC.


----------



## FLEMTP

EMSLaw said:


> Bouncing a check isn't a criminal offense.  Most of the time, bad check cases come out of people writing checks on closed accounts.  Even then, there are usually multiple demands for payment before anything criminal comes of it.
> 
> As for marriageable age, that depends on state law.  There are still places you can marry that young, IIRC.



Im going by what I know about the law in the state of florida... thats where I work and live. I should have stated that in my previous post sorry


----------



## FLEMTP

EMSLaw said:


> Bouncing a check isn't a criminal offense.  Most of the time, bad check cases come out of people writing checks on closed accounts.  Even then, there are usually multiple demands for payment before anything criminal comes of it.
> 
> As for marriageable age, that depends on state law.  There are still places you can marry that young, IIRC.



And just to back up what im saying with fact.. here is the state law regarding worthless checks:



> 832.05  Giving worthless checks, drafts, and debit card orders; penalty; duty of drawee; evidence; costs; complaint form.--
> 
> (1)  PURPOSE.--The purpose of this section is to remedy the evil of giving checks, drafts, bills of exchange, debit card orders, and other orders on banks without first providing funds in or credit with the depositories on which the same are made or drawn to pay and satisfy the same, which tends to create the circulation of worthless checks, drafts, bills of exchange, debit card orders, and other orders on banks, bad banking, check kiting, and a mischief to trade and commerce.
> 
> (2)  WORTHLESS CHECKS, DRAFTS, OR DEBIT CARD ORDERS; PENALTY.--
> 
> (a)  It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to draw, make, utter, issue, or deliver to another any check, draft, or other written order on any bank or depository, or to use a debit card, for the payment of money or its equivalent, knowing at the time of the drawing, making, uttering, issuing, or delivering such check or draft, or at the time of using such debit card, that the maker or drawer thereof has not sufficient funds on deposit in or credit with such bank or depository with which to pay the same on presentation; except that this section does not apply to any check when the payee or holder knows or has been expressly notified prior to the drawing or uttering of the check, or has reason to believe, that the drawer did not have on deposit or to the drawer's credit with the drawee sufficient funds to ensure payment as aforesaid, nor does this section apply to any postdated check.
> 
> (b)  A violation of the provisions of this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, unless the check, draft, debit card order, or other written order drawn, made, uttered, issued, or delivered is in the amount of $150, or its equivalent, or more and the payee or a subsequent holder thereof receives something of value therefor. In that event, the violation constitutes a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.


----------



## JPINFV

FLEMTP said:


> Im going by what I know about the law in the state of florida... thats where I work and live. I should have stated that in my previous post sorry



I just looked up section 832 because I'm geeky like that. Writing a bad check is not against the law. *Intentionally* writing a bad check is against the law. Similarly, if you don't pay the amount plus a service charge following a bounced check within 15 days is prima facie evidence of intent. There *are* some laws where ignorance is a legitimate defense, however those are few and an ignorance defense is written into the law.

Another example to the ignorance law is that in California it is unlawful in most cases (e.g. home owners can possess on their property) to knowingly have a firearm within 1000 feet of a school due to unarmed victi... err... gun free school law. The key word there is "knowingly" because if your right on that 1000 feet border and don't know that there's a school around, then it is possible to not be prosecuted.


----------



## EMSLaw

FLEMTP said:


> And just to back up what im saying with fact.. here is the state law regarding worthless checks:



I'm not suggesting that you're wrong on the technical application of the law (though as JPINFV points out, take note of the word 'knowing' in the statute, which is the highest possible level of mens rea).  I'm simply saying that for the most part, prosecutors don't have the time or inclination to get involved every time someone kites a check for their groceries.  Of course, kite a $200,000 check, and you'll be getting a visit from the men in blue. 

The relevant statute in New Jersey is NJSA 2C:21-5, and requires that you issue the instrument with knowledge that it will be dishonored.  Knowledge is presumed if either: A ) you have no account with the drawee bank or B ) you don't make good on the check within 10 days after receiving notice of dishonor.  Of course, since this is criminal law, the presumption is only a reasonable inference that the jury may, or may not, draw from the facts, as they so choose.  If the check is post-dated, the State doesn't even have the benefit of the presumption.

Trying to get somewhat back on topic...  People make mistakes.  That's what youthful offender sentences, pre-trial intervention/conditional discharge, and expungement statutes are for.  When you start to get beyond that, then the criminal behavior in question is becoming more serious, and /should/ give pause to any EMS employer or licensing agency.  This is especially true with EMS workers (and other health professions) who will have access to prescription-only items, and will be welcomed into people's houses with a sense of almost absolute trust.


----------



## MDewell

If expungement is totally and absolutely 100% out of the question, I'd wonder exactly what it was you did. I'd be making some phone calls until I found a lawyer who could actually do something for me...

Are you certain it's not expungeable? There are tons of issues with felons who think they can't get one, only to find out (for a fee, obviously) and a clean 10 year record that they can get one.


----------



## firetender

The OP was a hit and run and will derive no benefit from our input. I suspect none of the posters since have had felonies to deal with (with the possible exception of myself), and all I have to say is: "If it's important to you, you'll get over the hurdle. If you really want help, ask for it."


----------



## firetender

*Whizzing in the Wind!*

The OP was a hit and run and will derive no benefit from our input. I suspect none of the posters since have had felonies to deal with (with the possible exception of myself), and all I have to say is: "If it's important to you, you'll get over the hurdle. If you really want help, ask for it."


----------



## ExpatMedic0

JUST TELL US WHAT YOU DID! 

Its killing me


----------



## fortsmithman

WolfmanHarris said:


> It's unfortunate that so many doors are closed to you and as an individual you have my sympathy. I appreciate how hard it must be to have poor decisions from decades ago dogging you through life; however those are the consequences. Like many professions that rely on the public trust, it is in the best interest of Paramedicine to bar anyone with a criminal record from practice. For that reason I must say that I do not wish to see you, or someone with a DUI, or someone with a juvenile record, or any other indiscretion that discredits them as a member of my profession as a practising Paramedic.
> 
> That is not to say I don't wish you personally the best in life, but this door is and should in my mind remain closed.



One can practice in Canada as a EMR, PCP, ACP or CCP With a criminal record provided they have obtained a pardon for the offences. As well the offences must not have been of a sexual nature.  When I got my clearence from the RCMP I had a basic reliabilty check done.  As well I had to fill out a form allowing the police to disclose if I was pardoned for a sexual offence.


----------



## Pitbull21

*Anyone familiar with this?*

Hows it going everybody, Im Erik 23 years old from El Paso, TX. I have always wanted to become ant EMT but unfortunatley when I was 17 I was conficted of a Felony for Evading Arrest in a Motorized Vehicle and I knew I would have to wait at least 5 years to consider becoming certified. So it has now been 5 years and I can honestly say that I have fully matured and just focused on getting my career going as an EMT but I just hope that my backround will not hold me back. I just recently attempted to have this expunged but the judge stated that I could only have a non disclosure which means Law Enforcement will still have access to it. I was young and immature when I was convicted and learned from my mistakes. What do you guys think?


----------



## Tonester

Pitbull21 said:


> Hows it going everybody, Im Erik 23 years old from El Paso, TX. I have always wanted to become ant EMT but unfortunatley when I was 17 I was conficted of a Felony for Evading Arrest in a Motorized Vehicle and I knew I would have to wait at least 5 years to consider becoming certified. So it has now been 5 years and I can honestly say that I have fully matured and just focused on getting my career going as an EMT but I just hope that my backround will not hold me back. I just recently attempted to have this expunged but the judge stated that I could only have a non disclosure which means Law Enforcement will still have access to it. I was young and immature when I was convicted and learned from my mistakes. What do you guys think?



We're you convicted as a juvenile or as an adult? 

Also find out if you get the conviction reduced to a misdemeanor and expunged.


----------



## durdenpb

*Emt with felony*

Ok, so people dont realize that we are humans, EVERYONE makes mistakes EVERYONE breaks the law, its just us that get caught and we have to live with the felony on our record, not you. And for  people to automatically pass judgement on myself a convicted felony or anyone else who has this issue, is plum ignorance, yes I do agree to an extent there is a limit and a line to draw, murders and serious crimes against people yes should be said no to certain jobs, But dont forget WE TOO are humans and breath the same air as you do. Our bills come from the same place as yours, your money is no better than ours and yet you still think it is ok to judge us because we had a bad decision earlier in life.  Thou shalt not pass judgement.   


I am in emt school now and my felony is for grand theft from 2005, which I was railroaded on and currently have the case in district appeals. And only did 2 years probation and have been clean since other than a few speeding tickets. 


NO SIN IS WORSE THAN THE OTHER.. you smoke? you drink? are you fat? God states that anything that we do to harm our bodies is a sin. So what makes your sin different from mine? so unless you want judgement passed upon you...   think before you open your mouth. 


Good day and good luck to all my fellow felons that are trying to do better with their lifes.


----------



## Remeber343

durdenpb said:


> Ok, so people dont realize that we are humans, EVERYONE makes mistakes EVERYONE breaks the law, its just us that get caught and we have to live with the felony on our record, not you. And for  people to automatically pass judgement on myself a convicted felony or anyone else who has this issue, is plum ignorance, yes I do agree to an extent there is a limit and a line to draw, murders and serious crimes against people yes should be said no to certain jobs, But dont forget WE TOO are humans and breath the same air as you do. Our bills come from the same place as yours, your money is no better than ours and yet you still think it is ok to judge us because we had a bad decision earlier in life.  Thou shalt not pass judgement.
> 
> 
> I am in emt school now and my felony is for grand theft from 2005, which I was railroaded on and currently have the case in district appeals. And only did 2 years probation and have been clean since other than a few speeding tickets.
> 
> 
> NO SIN IS WORSE THAN THE OTHER.. you smoke? you drink? are you fat? God states that anything that we do to harm our bodies is a sin. So what makes your sin different from mine? so unless you want judgement passed upon you...   think before you open your mouth.
> 
> 
> Good day and good luck to all my fellow felons that are trying to do better with their lifes.



Breaking the law and sins are two different things...  In order to have sins, you have to believe in a religion.


----------



## JPINFV

Mind the bump.


----------



## Handsome Robb

My thoughts:

You broke the law, you pay the consequences. I'm fairly familiar with the wrong side of the justice system and still have a 911 job however I never committed a felony or violent crime. 

/thread.


----------



## Remeber343

I just think comparing smoking, drinking and being fat to committing a felony kind of a joke, far fetched.  There is no correlation, and if you don't have the common sense to not commit a felony, and the fact that you try to correlate a felony to something like being fat, it shows that you kind of a warped sense of reality.  I'd suggest a different line of work, we had someone with a felony work for us, she tried to get her medic cert after taking the class and passing everything, and then the state withheld it because of her felony.


----------



## STXmedic

durdenpb said:


> Ok, so people dont realize that we are humans, EVERYONE makes mistakes EVERYONE breaks the law, its just us that get caught and we have to live with the felony on our record, not you. And for  people to automatically pass judgement on myself a convicted felony or anyone else who has this issue, is plum ignorance, yes I do agree to an extent there is a limit and a line to draw, murders and serious crimes against people yes should be said no to certain jobs, But dont forget WE TOO are humans and breath the same air as you do. Our bills come from the same place as yours, your money is no better than ours and yet you still think it is ok to judge us because we had a bad decision earlier in life.  Thou shalt not pass judgement.
> 
> 
> I am in emt school now and my felony is for grand theft from 2005, which I was railroaded on and currently have the case in district appeals. And only did 2 years probation and have been clean since other than a few speeding tickets.
> 
> 
> NO SIN IS WORSE THAN THE OTHER.. you smoke? you drink? are you fat? God states that anything that we do to harm our bodies is a sin. So what makes your sin different from mine? so unless you want judgement passed upon you...   think before you open your mouth.
> 
> 
> Good day and good luck to all my fellow felons that are trying to do better with their lifes.



You make it sound as if we all walk around committing felonies every day. That may be your problem is you think it's okay to break the law, you just usually don't get caught. That is not at all the case my friend. If your morals are so displaced, and you still feel its okay to break the law (from the sound of it), than maybe you should find yourself a new career path.

And while I'm not real well versed in the bible, I would personally rather have you steal my bike than put a knife in my chest. That "no sin is worse than the other" is complete bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: out of any other context than biblical. Unfortunately for you, this includes the law.  I may speed from time to time, but its never even crossed my mind to steal a freaking car!

Oh, and I don't drink, don't smoke, and I'm not fat...


----------



## Anjel

A company would still hire me over you even if I do drink and am fat lol you made an incredably stupjd choice to steal a car! 

I wouldnt want you no where near my company. Especially since it was only 6 years ago and you show no remorse for your actions.


----------



## firetender

*Condemnation*

I suspect the latest flurry on this thread is more about closing doors based on a word; "Felony".

The bump poster is obviously dealing with a lot of frustration based on actions in the past. He knows who he is today and it probably doesn't correspond with who he was when he played Grand Theft Auto.

Still, he's out there and stumbling over the priliminary hurdle which is "Felony on your record, sorry, Chum!"

I say it doesn't matter what you've done, what matters is who you are and the Poster needs to realize he's just going to have to work a hell of a lot harder to get people to "see" him for who he is today.

What he did is now on his record as a bad mark, and, YES, a bar to employment in certain areas. That shouldn't stop him from going for what moves him regardless. In my experience (21 years old popped and convicted for "*Attempted* sale of a dangerous drug", a 4th degree-borderline Misdemeanor- felony with a one-year sentence) I, at first didn't even get the chance to explain that it was about marijuana. 

Paradoxically, that very conviction propelled me into being on the first wave of paramedics. Why? Because in order to better structure my time I applied to volunteer on a NYC ambulance, was turned down because of my Felony, and, quite frankly, I wouldn't let them get away with it. 

To their credit, they did pay attention to ME and it started my life in a new, positive direction but I had to sweat it out and not give up. I don't care that that was 1974, nothing is different today.

My point for the Poster is you don't have to convince us you're EMT-worthy. Do the work and get the people who make the decisions face YOU, not the piece of paper hanging around your neck.


----------



## Handsome Robb

So I drink beer from time to time...does that make me a sinner? Almost every biblical story has wine involved in it. Being fat in history was seen as a sign of wealth and good health and was desirable by women. There are multiple religions that smoke tobacco or other substances as part of their religious practices. I think you should do a little bit of reading before trying to correlate the above mentioned to felonies, let alone sins. 

I'm not religious but I have a solid understanding of it seeing as I went to a Catholic HS for the athletic program.  You sir are twisting up concepts in order to justify it to yourself and others. That thought process will not get you very far, especially not in this line of work.

Why the heck has religion popped up in multiple threads all of the sudden? I'm all for a friendly discussion but we all know with the personalities on here this will not end well.


----------



## Remeber343

It could be popping up because some people are looking for drama or they just don't think things through...  I believe the above just didn't think through the analogy he tried to use.
​


----------



## Remeber343

I should add, there is a tactful way to bring up religion... didn't mean my last post to sounds as if there was no place for it, there can be, just how its brought up.


----------



## Bizy Boy

There are a few minimum security prisons in Illinois that offer EMT training on site in the penitentiary as well as post release jobs placement.  I think from personal experience that good paying career opportunities are the ultimate deterrent to street crime, which is 95% poverty motivated.  It doesn't work for the younger, macho idiots, but for older guys who are tired of the vicious circle, career opportunities work wonders.


----------



## fortsmithman

Here in Canada our criminal justice system does not use the classification of felony or misdemeanor.  Our system uses the classifications of indictable offence, summary conviction offences, or dual procedure.  Dual procedure offences can be tried either as indictable or summarily, it is up to the Crown on how they would elect to try the case.


----------

