# Drop out rate for EMT classes?



## some1ne (Jan 12, 2013)

Does anyone know the average class size?, and what the drop out rate usually is? I am assuming many people who sign up for the course end up dropping out before the end?


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## Medic Tim (Jan 12, 2013)

It depends on the kind of program(hospital, fire, college) and the quality of the instructors/program. The EMT course (or medic for that matter) is not really that hard of a course if you understand A&P. Micro, chemistry and pathophysiology for medic. Like someone said before it is 8th grade level stuff (sciences included). 

some courses are money grabs and will take as many as they can and pass you. some teach what you might see on the nr exam and not prepare you for what the job actually is. doing some research would be a good idea.


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## some1ne (Jan 12, 2013)

Hospital program.

In addition to the traditional lecture component, there is a mandatory “ride-along” observation time on an ambulance and in the Hospital Emergency Department.

The program costs $750 per person, and additional $125 if you want the books included.  The duration is approximately 190 hours spread out over 2-4 months.

I was actually in a College one a loooong time ago when I was much younger but I quit because I just didn't like the whole setting... it felt very informal and cold with maybe 30 people sitting in a huge College lecture hall..


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 12, 2013)

A lot of it depends on the program itself and the area that the program serves. My college EMT drop out rate is 50%-60%.


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## some1ne (Jan 13, 2013)

wow that's a lot


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## Hunter (Jan 13, 2013)

some1ne said:


> wow that's a lot



My class of 25, 8 graduated. But everyone who graduated passed the state exam, two the national. Hoping to make it 3 soon. But that's for everything from emt to medics. Emt we graduated 12 so about 50%


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## PaddyWagon (Jan 13, 2013)

In my uni EMT class 20 started and 12 remain as we approach finals.  Our teachers are a combination of masters level nurse educators and fire/paramedics for skills training and tests.  Tests themselves are run a little bit hotter than the NREMT they are training us for, everyone in the remaining class is maintaining a 90%+ on these.

Of the 8 that left: one would not be 18 before NREMT and deferred his class, one was fire just looking to advance his career, two or three realized that blood and guts wasn't their thing, the rest split between personal reasons and failing out on the paper tests or psychomotor.

The pattern I build from this is that two things ensure success: 1) have an abiding love of biology and 2) always wonder why.  Of those that drop out only a portion are for academic reasons, as for the rest there's no denying that EMT isn't a job for everyone and it's a very personal decision.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 13, 2013)

My medic class started with 13 enrolled. 2 never showed, 1 walked in on day one took one look at our entrance medication exam turned it back in and walked out, another failed out during cardiology (he decided to use the AED mode on the MRx during scenarios cause he couldn't read strips for :censored::censored::censored::censored, the remaining 9 graduated and are all gainfully employed as Paramedics.


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## hogwiley (Jan 13, 2013)

I think its a good sign that your school is a hospital run program. Very few EMS schools are these days. 

I think hospital programs are the best at teaching the content and preparing students for the real world. Programs that tend to be run by Fire personnel tend to do the worst in my opinion, both in getting people to pass the course, and getting them to pass the NREMT, while community colleges are a mixed bag. 

Having lots of students in your class fail isnt a badge of honor, its probably a sign you had a crappy program and/or had a class atmosphere that wasnt big on cooperation and teamwork, which will then have to be learned on the job.


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## Achilles (Jan 13, 2013)

Do you plan on dropping out? If not then no need to know statistics as it will just raise your anxiety.


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## RustyShackleford (Jan 13, 2013)

112%.....


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## Rano Pano (Jan 13, 2013)

We started out close to 50 students, and finished around 23. 

Put in the work, and you'll be fine.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 13, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> We started out close to 50 students, and finished around 23.
> 
> Put in the work, and you'll be fine.



Sounds like you went to Crafton haha


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## Rano Pano (Jan 13, 2013)

firefite said:


> Sounds like you went to Crafton haha



Believe it or not it was a Los Angeles County school. 

I've heard some stories about Craftons medic program, but nothing on the EMT program. If I knew then what I know now about how EMS really varies in the schools out here in SoCal I would have picked somewhere else to take my EMT.


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## ATFDFF (Jan 13, 2013)

Did EMT through a vocational program in HS....started with 45, graduated 3.  (yes, three).  It was actually pretty nice, most dropped out within the first week or two, so there was a TON of individual instruction for those of us who cared.  I really credit that for making me a good EMT and starting my career out right.  

For paramedic, I did a hospital based program....started with 29 graduated 25.


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## Anjel (Jan 13, 2013)

We started with 28. 12 passed. And all are employed now as a basic or medic.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jan 13, 2013)

Anjel said:


> We started with 28. 12 passed. And all are employed now as a basic or medic.



Good grief! Are most classes really this high on attrition? 

My basic class started with 15 and graduated 13. My intermediate class started with 20 and graduated 18 (17 passed registry). And my medic class started with 12 and graduated 12 AND had 12 pass registry.


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## teedubbyaw (Jan 13, 2013)

As I just said in another thread, the EMT class I took says they lose around 10 people each semester. That's out of around 27ish. We started with about that number, give or take one, and ended with around 17 or 18.

I did not agree with the exams that the instructors wrote at times, but it was a quality program, and their pass rate for the NREMT is almost 100%. 

Some people put in very little effort and swung a B or C in the class, others were unable to get past the first 2 exams and failed out.


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## EpiEMS (Jan 14, 2013)

Wow, these are crazy-high attrition rates! My EMT course had about 20 people and I believe that all of the students took and passed Registry. It's not like it's particularly hard to complete an EMT course and pass Registry -- it's designed for, what, an 8th grade level of education?


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## JDub (Jan 14, 2013)

My college EMT class started with 14 people. 2 dropped the course in the first week for whatever reasons. Of the 12 that completed the course, only 6 met the required 80 overall average to be allowed to graduate. 5 took and passed the national registry. 4 of those now currently work in EMS.


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## teedubbyaw (Jan 14, 2013)

EpiEMS said:


> Wow, these are crazy-high attrition rates! My EMT course had about 20 people and I believe that all of the students took and passed Registry. It's not like it's particularly hard to complete an EMT course and pass Registry -- it's designed for, what, an 8th grade level of education?



How were your exams?

Ours were written by two very experienced paramedics. 100 questions, 5 exams. All were somewhat like the national in having numerous answers that could have been right. 

I wouldn't match it to a grade level, it was more of a judgement and decision making format. I know a couple of people that only studied the night before and pulled a b or c.

That said, I feel the quality of education we received far surpassed that of other programs. We probably went far more in depth than others do in areas of patho/bio, etc.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jan 14, 2013)

teedubbyaw said:


> How were your exams?
> 
> Ours were written by two very experienced paramedics. 100 questions, 5 exams. All were somewhat like the national in having numerous answers that could have been right.
> 
> ...



Insane exams. Written by two flight medics, a flight nurse, a SDO/EMS Training Chief and a really experienced ground medic.

10 exams of 150 questions. At least 10 of 100. A few of less than 50 questions. And then single sheet drug tests on 20 drugs.

But under those instructors, my school has the highest certification rate in Texas and one of the highest in the US. These guys are amazing. I think they all need to go to Med School.....

Now, granted. Not everyone passed or graduated with a 100%. Some still barely squeeze in. But the instructors will study with you and coach you till they KNOW you understand it. Then the test is administered. Guys still fail individual tests, but overall, virtually everyone passes the class and the Nat. Reg.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 14, 2013)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Insane exams. Written by two flight medics, a flight nurse, a SDO/EMS Training Chief and a really experienced ground medic.
> 
> 10 exams of 150 questions. A few of less than 50 questions. And then single sheet drug tests on 20 drugs.
> 
> ...



Sounds more like a medic school than an EMT school.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jan 14, 2013)

firefite said:


> Sounds more like a medic school than an EMT school.




Oops....were we talking about EMT school? Sorry....


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 14, 2013)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Oops....were we talking about EMT school? Sorry....



I think we were? Haha


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## Tigger (Jan 14, 2013)

Started with 22 students, 22 passed. A few struggled mightily but still made it through. Everyone who took the registry (not many, 10 at most) passed. 

It's a college based program only for college students, so I think that helps. Usually one to two fail per class, with the size ranging from 12 to a max of 25.


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## teedubbyaw (Jan 14, 2013)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Oops....were we talking about EMT school? Sorry....



Can I ask what part of Texas this school is in?


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## some1ne (Jan 15, 2013)

I think the classes that have high drop out rates are probably the ones that have many younger people in them in their teens


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## Tigger (Jan 15, 2013)

some1ne said:


> I think the classes that have high drop out rates are probably the ones that have many younger people in them in their teens



How did you come up with that?

My class was ages 18-22, no dropouts. That's just for me of course and not necessarily indicative of a greater trend, but you still best be careful with those sorts of blanket statements.


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## Veneficus (Jan 15, 2013)

Tigger said:


> How did you come up with that?
> 
> My class was ages 18-22, no dropouts. That's just for me of course and not necessarily indicative of a greater trend, but you still best be careful with those sorts of blanket statements.



In the programs I have taught at, by far the largest demographic of paramedic students (I only teach paramedics) that fail are the ones with "experience" as EMTs. 

The longer they are EMTs also corellates to the likelyhood they will fail. 

That is why I so vehemently oppose people "gaining experience" as an EMT prior to medic school.


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## leoemt (Jan 15, 2013)

My class was 25 students. 1 dropped out, 3 failed, 18 passed the NREMT the 1st time through and 2 passed it the second time. 1 has yet to retake it.


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## taco bell aftermath (Oct 15, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> The longer they are EMTs also corellates to the likelyhood they will fail.
> 
> That is why I so vehemently oppose people "gaining experience" as an EMT prior to medic school.




Sorry for the thread necro but why is this so?  Does "gaining experience" translate into learning bad habits that are hard to undo once in paramedic school?


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## Jim37F (Oct 15, 2013)

taco bell aftermath said:


> Veneficus said:
> 
> 
> > In the programs I have taught at, by far the largest demographic of paramedic students (I only teach paramedics) that fail are the ones with "experience" as EMTs.
> ...



Follow on question, what kind of system(s) do these EMTs come from? I.e One where EMTs only work non emergent IFTs? A fire based system where they watch from the sidelines until it comes time to transport? Or a system with B/P 911 response? 

I personally feel like an EMT whose experience is 6 months of dialysis runs in LA Co is going to be different than an EMT who worked directly with a medic partner on the ambulance responding to all types of calls.


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