# smoking?



## bled12345 (Mar 31, 2008)

How many smokers are out there in EMS?


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## BossyCow (Mar 31, 2008)

You might try a thread search. This has been covered in a previous thread


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## bled12345 (Mar 31, 2008)

I never understood the "search it" attitude, yeah of course questions are going to be repeated, but if everyone just searched something they wanted to ask 100% of the time this forum would be pretty dead.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 31, 2008)

Well it would be better than re-hashing it all over again, and no one responding to your question because it has been previously discussed.

Many EMS forums request that you search before posting to be sure that the subject has not been covered thoroughly. 

R/r 911


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## mikie (Mar 31, 2008)

Around the city here, it's all private ambulance.  I always see them parked in a strip-mall parking lot standing outside their rig smoking.  

I wouldn't want to be the pt. and have the EMT/Medics smell like smoke when they're treating the pt.


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## LucidResq (Mar 31, 2008)

That's pretty messed up. I don't care if you smoke like a chimney outside of work, but I definitely think it's wrong to smoke during work. I understand that it can be hard for smokers to go without a cig for 8-24 hour shifts, but I'm sure it's really unpleasant to be sick and in the back of ambulance with someone who reeks of cigarette smoke. I've frequently seen it and smelled it at the hospitals too.


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## KEVD18 (Apr 1, 2008)

i disagree with the theory that a person shouldn't be allowed to smoke while at work. during patient care, absolutely not. even in the bus isn't right. but i wouldn't allow anybody to tell me i cant smoke in between calls. anybody you encounter in your day could be a smoker. the person who serves your food at a restaurant, the cashier at the video store, anybody. would you tell them they cant smoke?

if the biggest concern my patient has is the smell of cigarettes, then they're not really sick.


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## Medic51 (Apr 1, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> i disagree with the theory that a person shouldn't be allowed to smoke while at work. during patient care, absolutely not. even in the bus isn't right. but i wouldn't allow anybody to tell me i cant smoke in between calls. anybody you encounter in your day could be a smoker. the person who serves your food at a restaurant, the cashier at the video store, anybody. would you tell them they cant smoke?
> 
> if the biggest concern my patient has is the smell of cigarettes, then they're not really sick.



Well I have a few opinions on the subject. I myself do not smoke first of all. I see wonderful points from everyone here. However, What you do during your free time while not running a call is your business as long as it does not effect your judgment of anything. Cigarettes do not do that. People smoking is a part of life, I don't agree with new laws that ban people from certain areas either. This is supposed to be a country of freedom of choice. If your company bans it, Fine. At least there is a choice. Freedom of choice is the matter at hand. But you should not have to just cause someone don't like the smell. Just because you smoke does not make you a bad person. If you don't like it, You have the freedom of choice to leave, Simply put.


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## LucidResq (Apr 1, 2008)

Believe me, I am not saying that smokers are bad people or that smoking should be banned by any law or rule. I just think that choosing not to smoke, even between calls or patient contact, would be much more conducive to an image of professionalism as a health care provider. You're not going to offend any patients if you lack the smell of cigarette smoke, but you will certainly offend some patients if you do smell like smoke. 

I'm not just discriminating against the odor of cigarettes. I think it is also counterproductive to patient care to bathe in that Axe body spray stuff or otherwise give off a strong, unpleasant odor. Granted, BO and bad breath happen sometimes, but I'd personally like to avoid doing things that tend to create odors that offend many people. 

If you don't smell after having a quick smoke between calls, then fine, knock yourself out. It doesn't really matter then.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 1, 2008)

Medic51 said:


> Well I have a few opinions on the subject. I myself do not smoke first of all. I see wonderful points from everyone here. However, What you do during your free time while not running a call is your business as long as it does not effect your judgment of anything. Cigarettes do not do that. People smoking is a part of life, I don't agree with new laws that ban people from certain areas either. This is supposed to be a country of freedom of choice. If your company bans it, Fine. At least there is a choice. Freedom of choice is the matter at hand. But you should not have to just cause someone don't like the smell. Just because you smoke does not make you a bad person. If you don't like it, You have the freedom of choice to leave, Simply put.



Coming from a state where it is ILLEGAL to smoke in any public building, or *outdoors* within 25 feet of the entrance of any public building, I certainly agree with this statement.  At what point do we stop letting the government decide what is right for us, and start making these decisions on our own (accepting the consequences of these decisions, also)?


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## VentMedic (Apr 1, 2008)

I started this thread last summer.

*Hospital Bans Smoking*
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4953

Tech companies had already set the trend and yes it is very legal.  Since that post, other hospitals have followed in the ban.   

As a Respiratory Therapist, I am delighted that the ban is catching on in the healthcare industry.  Yes, for those of you that smoke, your patients who have reactive airway disease, asthma, cancer, chemo treatment or AIDS can smell the smoke on you and do complain about having to put up with that in the close quarters of an ambulance.   Parents with small children are also appalled when their babies with RAD must be exposed to you.   

Yes, it is a hard addiction to quit.  But, it also depends on how selfish you want to be for your patients' well being and for your family.  Do you want to put your family through what the future may hold for you in the way of COPD?  Do you also want that future for them with 2nd hand smoke exposure?


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## mikie (Apr 1, 2008)

Personally, I like to smoke in the back of the ambulance, with all the O2 @ 25LPM.  Lighting up makes for a more pleasant time.  :lol:

Has anyone ever had a pt. who either wanted to stop to smoke, smoke before getting in the back or try to light up inside while transporting?


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## VentMedic (Apr 1, 2008)

mikie333 said:


> Has anyone ever had a pt. who either wanted to stop to smoke, smoke before getting in the back or try to light up inside while transporting?



Smoking used to be allowed everywhere inside the hospitals including the patients' rooms and nursing stations.  It was not uncommon for patients to be smoking while awaiting the ambulance for a routine transfer at the hospital entrance.  Smoking was permitted up front for the crew but not in the back with the O2.  For long transports like some of the long VA "shuttles" I used to do, we would pull over for a break and unload the patient to have a smoke.   That included the tracheostomy and laryngostomy patients.


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## JPINFV (Apr 1, 2008)

Sounds like it was kinda of a pain in the neck back then.


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## eggshen (Apr 1, 2008)

Quit a few days ago....seeing spiders.

Egg


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## BossyCow (Apr 1, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> Smoking used to be allowed everywhere inside the hospitals including the patients' rooms and nursing stations.  It was not uncommon for patients to be smoking while awaiting the ambulance for a routine transfer at the hospital entrance.  Smoking was permitted up front for the crew but not in the back with the O2.  For long transports like some of the long VA "shuttles" I used to do, we would pull over for a break and unload the patient to have a smoke.   That included the tracheostomy and laryngostomy patients.



I remember hanging out in the hospital smokers lounge doing the NY times crossword puzzle with the hospital administrator, every morning at 9am break.


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## VentMedic (Apr 1, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> I remember hanging out in the hospital smokers lounge doing the NY times crossword puzzle with the hospital administrator, every morning at 9am break.



The RTs, Pulmonologists and Cardiologists were probably in there too.


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## mikie (Apr 1, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> That included the tracheostomy and laryngostomy patients.



Through their stoma?  ...not surprised


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## emtbhardy (Apr 5, 2008)

i use to transport a pt that was on O2 to dialysis and that pt would never go untill they finished smoking. I learned the first time I ever got that pt not to say anything about that. Lets justs say it was the joke on the newbie.


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## Keith (Apr 5, 2008)

smoker or not, :censored::censored::censored::censored: it, as long as you know your :censored::censored::censored::censored: and can perform your job well, what does it matter?


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## ErinCooley (Apr 5, 2008)

I am just over 8 months smoke-free.


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## milhouse (Apr 7, 2008)

in our state it is illegal to smoke on hospital property, its something like a 500,000 fine to the hospital and some sort of fine to the person breaking the law. i now work for a hospital service, and they just recently came up with a new policy that says the only way you can smoke is by stepping off of hospital property. but if you do that you have to clock out. well with EMS you cant clock out you have to be availible 24/7 as we all know. so they came out with a new policy that says that we cant smoke while on the duty, and if caught you will be fired on the spot. now thankfully i dont smoke, but i dont think its fair because nurse's and other hospital staff are allowed to "clock out" and smoke. they dont have to worry about being on duty for 24 to 72 hours so it really sucks for the people that may work a 72 hour shift.


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## LucidResq (Apr 7, 2008)

ErinCooley said:


> I am just over 8 months smoke-free.




Congrats. Keep up the good work.


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## VentMedic (Apr 7, 2008)

milhouse said:


> being on duty for 24 to 72 hours so it really sucks for the people that may work a 72 hour shift.



Smoking and working 72 hour shifts?  I can not imagine anything more unhealthy as far as risk factors for CAD and HTN to set a person up for a CVA or MI.    

Hopefully the turnover is high for the people that fall into this group so they will move on before getting too sick to keep the insurance rates down for others.


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## tydek07 (Apr 7, 2008)

From what I am reading so far, I see that there are many opinions on this topic. I, myself, feel that it is not professional to smoke in between calls. There is always going to be someone that will complain about the smell of smoke on us. It may or may not be the patient ---It could be a family member of the patient, it could be a coworker of the patient, or it could be just any person off the street. It does not take long for word to get around that we are not professional. How do you think it looks seeing a FR/EMT/Medic standing outside of their truck smoking, in the publics eye? 

*If we want to be known as professionals to the public, we got to act like professionals!*


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## CFRBryan347768 (Apr 9, 2008)

I think id die i smoke a pack a day, i do not know how i would function.


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## scars87 (Apr 9, 2008)

I don't think it's just the smell that gets to people, but also the health risks that come with it.  I personally hate smoke.  I also have asthma and bad allergies that cigarette smoke aggravates.  In Louisiana, it's now illegal to smoke in restaurants and most work places which is good to me.  I could not stand trying to go eat while inhaling someone else's smoke from across the restaurant.  I agree people should be able decide if they want to smoke their lungs away and should not be banned from smoking, but I think they should do it inside their home/vehicle and not in public exposing everyone around them.  To me it does not look good when you see any healthcare professional light up at work while some of them are taking care of patients who are in the hospital due to their smoking.


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## CFRBryan347768 (Apr 9, 2008)

Keith said:


> smoker or not, :censored::censored::censored::censored: it, as long as you know your :censored::censored::censored::censored: and can perform your job well, what does it matter?



I agree, minus all the profane language=]


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## crash_cart (Apr 9, 2008)

Keith said:


> smoker or not, :censored::censored::censored::censored: it, as long as you know your :censored::censored::censored::censored: and can perform your job well, what does it matter?



Have one on me.








B)


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## VentMedic (Apr 9, 2008)

Keith said:


> smoker or not, :censored::censored::censored::censored: it, as long as you know your :censored::censored::censored::censored: and can perform your job well, what does it matter?



It is very difficult to promote the health profession when you yourself are at risk for many of the major diseases that you are trained to treat.  And, it is not always a good thing when the health provider also becomes a patient at scene due to shortness of breath or chest pain.   If you are also inducing more discomfort to the asthmatic child or making a cancer patient nauseous by your odor, than no, you are not doing your job.  

When you add smoking to long hours and a stressful job, you are setting yourself up for health failure especially if your diet is also as not good as it should be.  Eventually your work performance will decline either due to lack of physical stamina or sluggish mental fitness.


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## Airwaygoddess (Apr 9, 2008)

*Smoking...watch the friend and family history....*

Well said Vent, as for myself I am caring for my mom that has COPD.  Besides watching this horrible disease process, and knowing my mom is going to die a slow cruel death, it breaks my heart.... My mom was a registered nurse.....-_-


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## BossyCow (Apr 10, 2008)

So, anyone see that study linking tobacco addiction to a particular gene?


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## MSDeltaFlt (Apr 10, 2008)

Well, there are many opinions being voiced hear.  I think it right I should voice an opinion from a slightly different point of view.

As a resp therapist who became a smoker and enjoyed it then who became a former smoker after the helicopter crash where I broke my neck in two places requiring a halo, shattered L3 requiring a vertebrectomy (pulled L3 out in pieces) and anterior/posterior fixation and fusion.  I quit smoking on that day because smoking impedes bone qrowth.  I also enjoy not smoking.  My brand new L3 thanks me, too.

I realized this with regards to illegal immigrants, teenagers with a lot of angst, and all of the convicts we pick up in EMS.  It also fits to all those who choose to violate company policy, personal/public health,  and/or local/state/federal law.  It's liable to piss some folks off, I hope it makes them think.

Here it is:

If you are 21 years old or older, gainfully employed and financially independent, AND a natural born or a naturalized US citizen, then you have the God given, yes I said "God given", civil right as an American citizen to @#$% your life up any way you see fit.  You also have the right to pay the consequences up to and including the "Right to Remain Silent".

This is in English for a reason.

Have a nice day


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## bled12345 (Apr 10, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> It is very difficult to promote the health profession when you yourself are at risk for many of the major diseases that you are trained to treat.  And, it is not always a good thing when the health provider also becomes a patient at scene due to shortness of breath or chest pain.   If you are also inducing more discomfort to the asthmatic child or making a cancer patient nauseous by your odor, than no, you are not doing your job.
> 
> When you add smoking to long hours and a stressful job, you are setting yourself up for health failure especially if your diet is also as not good as it should be.  Eventually your work performance will decline either due to lack of physical stamina or sluggish mental fitness.





I'm from Canada but I did some ride alongs in louisiana. I smoke, I recently quit for 3 months but my grandma died and well smoking is one hell of a crutch lets just say that. I find it not so much hypocritical to me, but more ironic, that smoking is such a huge issue in the states, when obeisity and heart disease linked more to sedentary lifestyle and gluttonous diet run rampant in your country.  People deem it ok to :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: about the "odour" of smokers, yet no one really gives a :censored::censored::censored::censored: about living in a US city that has a dome of smog entrapping the city.


and also, since when did smoking become unprofessional? I'm kind of out to lunch on that one...

when you are a smoker you are addicted, you smoke, every day, intermittently throughout the day. We're not doing it at work to "kick back and get :censored::censored::censored::censored:ed up, or to to rebel against the man cause we're super badass"


the smell of smoke on clothes, the part where you can smell it without having to rub your face into the fabric, only lasts a few minutes anyways, get over it.  Like somebody else said in this post, if your biggest concern as a patient is that I smoke, then my biggest concern is handing you off to the hospital ASAP because you are not really sick but you ARE annoying.


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## Jon (Apr 10, 2008)

I was rasied by a father who never smoked (tobacco, anyway), and a mother who smoked for a few years early in her life, but quit long before I was born. I've seen 2 grandparents die of tobacco-related cancers, and I've seen lots of patients dying from the same diseases. I see no need to engage in THAT self destructive habit.

I don't smoke, or chew tobacco. I've smoked a cigar or two... but that isn't really smoking... especially if you do it in "Bill Clinton Style" 

I enjoy occasionally going to bars and hanging out with friends over a few beers... but when I wake up the next morning, I am disgusted by the odor on my clothing, between the cigarette smoke that has permeated my clothing and the 1/2 a beer some *** spilled on me... so the clothing goes in the wash first thing.

I've worked with many partners who smoke, and I don't have a major issue with occasional exposure to secondhand smoke from a distance... but I get a little annoyied if the cigarette is waved around near my face.


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## AlaskaEMT (Apr 10, 2008)

This thread is ridiculous.  Smokers understand the risk.  If all things unhealthy are considered "unprofessional" for healthcare providers, why is smoking taking precedence over overweight EMT's or driving without a seatbelt?  In a 24-hour shift a smoker needs a cig or 10... big deal - if they keep it outside.  A smoking medic is just as important to the team. I don't smoke but we ALL have our vices.


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## Jon (Apr 10, 2008)

AlaskaEMT said:


> This thread is ridiculous.  Smokers understand the risk.  If all things unhealthy are considered "unprofessional" for healthcare providers, why is smoking taking precedence over overweight EMT's or driving without a seatbelt?  In a 24-hour shift a smoker needs a cig or 10... big deal - if they keep it outside.  A smoking medic is just as important to the team. I don't smoke but we ALL have our vices.


I agree that we all have our vices... but some of our vices impact other people (through secondhand smoke, etc)

Additionally, the big discussion point in this thead has been that many places are moving towards smoke-free workplaces.

At my work, our staff can ONLY smoke in the parking lot, in their vehicles. We aren't supposed to smoke outside ED's or in other public places, as it doesn't present the agency in a good light... especially if we are littering with our butts.

The hospital I used to work security at is going to a smoke-free campus this fall, on the day of the "Great American Smokeout" (I think). Many of the other area hospitals are moving in this direction.

The corporate campus where I worked as a medical responder adjusted their smoking areas about 2 years ago. Instead of being able to smoke outside every building, employees have to walk to the far corners of the parking garages... this way non-smokers aren't subjected to secondhand smoke just entering and leaving the building. It was a fight... and there was discussion of going totally smoke-free... but that is a HUGE fight.


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## LucidResq (Apr 10, 2008)

AlaskaEMT said:


> This thread is ridiculous.  Smokers understand the risk.  If all things unhealthy are considered "unprofessional" for healthcare providers, why is smoking taking precedence over overweight EMT's or driving without a seatbelt?  In a 24-hour shift a smoker needs a cig or 10... big deal - if they keep it outside.  A smoking medic is just as important to the team. I don't smoke but we ALL have our vices.



I don't care if a healthcare provider smokes, I don't even care if they smoke while on the job. I would care if they smelled of smoke, however, especially if I was the patient or family member. 

The only concern that I have is the patient's experience. I am sensitive to strong smells and I'll feel physically sick (headache, nausea, runny nose) if there is a strong odor of cigarettes, perfume, or anything like that. I know that there are countless other people who experience the same reaction. 

It's not the fact that it's unhealthy that matters, it's the fact that it smells. Who would the typical patient prefer to be treated by... a great medic who reeks of cigarette smoke or an equally great medic who doesn't smell strongly at all? As I said before the same concept applies to BO, bad breath and excessive perfume/cologne. 

And by no means should smoking take precedence over obesity or seatbelt usage. No one has suggested that at all.


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## bled12345 (Apr 10, 2008)

I don't know, its legal, so until its not legal I guess non smokers will just have to put up with it


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## JPINFV (Apr 10, 2008)

Or go work at one of the growing number of places that ban smoking on the job.


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## BossyCow (Apr 10, 2008)

bled12345 said:


> I don't know, its legal, so until its not legal I guess non smokers will just have to put up with it



I have reactive airway disease. My state just outlawed smoking in restaurants, bars and within 25 feet of the entrance to a public building. I am so ticked off!!! Before I knew to stay away from places where smokers tend to congregate. I don't care if someone smokes, just can cause an asthma attack if they do it near me. Now, with the no smoking in bars rule, all the bar folks are out on the sidewalk causing me to have to cross the street or go out of my way to avoid the downwind path of their smoke. I wish the durn health police had left them in the bars!


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## bled12345 (Apr 10, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> Or go work at one of the growing number of places that ban smoking on the job.




If you're referring to the no smoking in the workplace bans, we have those in alberta. They don't BAN smoking all together, it just means you can't smoke in shared company vehicles, company buildings, offices, etc etc. Nothing stopping you from going OUTSIDE and having a cigarette.


I love how people like to tag smokers as inconsiderate, smelly or whatever. I'm not going to blow smoke in your face, I'm not going to flick cigarette butts at you, I'm not going to spit in your direction. If the smell offends you that much, hold your breath while you walk by.  

I find most people's addiction to mind numbing television shows like american idol or big brother disgusting. I am appalled by people's inherent consumer whorism,  their need to drive big mofo SUV's, their inability to think for themselves, and most of all their complete and utter lack of giving a crap when it comes to real issues that affect all of our lives.  But you don't hear me whining, raising a big of stink as *some, not all* people do about smoking.  

If you're biggest problem in a day is having to walk by a smoker OUTSIDE, well damn, I'd say your life is pretty good


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## JPINFV (Apr 10, 2008)

bled12345 said:


> If you're referring to the no smoking in the workplace bans, we have those in alberta. They don't BAN smoking all together, it just means you can't smoke in shared company vehicles, company buildings, offices, etc etc. Nothing stopping you from going OUTSIDE and having a cigarette.



No. I mean that there are places that will not hire people who smoke, regardless of where they smoke citing health insurance costs, among other things.


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## JPINFV (Apr 10, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> I wish the durn health police had left them in the bars!


I completely agree with this. It should be up to the property owner to decide if s/he wants to allow smoking in his/her place of business. It is up to the consumers and employees if they want to patronize/work for that company.


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## LucidResq (Apr 10, 2008)

bled12345 said:


> If you're referring to the no smoking in the workplace bans, we have those in alberta. They don't BAN smoking all together, it just means you can't smoke in shared company vehicles, company buildings, offices, etc etc. Nothing stopping you from going OUTSIDE and having a cigarette.
> 
> 
> I love how people like to tag smokers as inconsiderate, smelly or whatever. I'm not going to blow smoke in your face, I'm not going to flick cigarette butts at you, I'm not going to spit in your direction. If the smell offends you that much, hold your breath while you walk by.
> ...




Ok that's great. I agree with you. Now what about your patients? 

Nobody on this thread has attacked smokers or argued that the right to smoke should be taken from anyone, even health care providers on the job. 

So if your patients are sensitive to the smell, are you going to tell them to hold their breath until you get to the hospital? Smoking isn't inconsiderate. Smelling like smoke while providing patient care is extremely inconsiderate.


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## LucidResq (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey Bossy, at least now you can go binge-drink and pickle your liver at the bar just like everyone else without having to worry about second-hand smoke.


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## Sapphyre (Apr 10, 2008)

Hmm, you know, we were told during the general orientation for clinicals, not to wear perfume or strongly scented lotions, body splashes/spray, deodorant, powders (such as shower to shower), because it can make the patient uncomfortable.  I would assume this would apply to smoking as well.   And, well, if i get in your rig because of an asthma attack, and you happened to have been enjoying your twice hourly smoke when you caught the call, guess what.  Just being in the back with me is likely to make me worse, not better.


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## VentMedic (Apr 10, 2008)

bled12345 said:


> I'm from Canada but I did some ride alongs in louisiana. I smoke, I recently quit for 3 months but my grandma died and well smoking is one hell of a crutch lets just say that. I find it not so much hypocritical to me, but more ironic, that smoking is such a huge issue in the states, when obeisity and heart disease linked more to sedentary lifestyle and gluttonous diet run rampant in your country.  People deem it ok to :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: about the "odour" of smokers, yet no one really gives a :censored::censored::censored::censored: about living in a US city that has a dome of smog entrapping the city.
> 
> 
> and also, since when did smoking become unprofessional? I'm kind of out to lunch on that one...
> ...




I am only talking about people who consider themselves "healthcare professionals" and do realize the bigger scope of smoking and health.    I am lucky that both of my employers (hospital and flight) have banned smoking totally as a condition of hire.  For flight, if you are obese, you are not getting a job either.  Weight restrictions for that job is a requirement.  Go over the limit, you don't fly.  This may also apply for very obese patients and helicopter transport.  

If you want to work in one of our hospitals, you don't smoke.   Our employee health insurance is free to the employee and minimal cost for dependents. 

For my career as a Respiratory Therapist,  I have a very solid future.   It doesn't really matter what you did for a profession once you get hooked up to a ventilator.  I have former EMTs and Paramedics attached to machines in the sub-acute.   They just become "the vent in room 202, COPD or COPD and CVA or COPD and MI".   We don't care about your past profession. You may be placed beside others who also ended up on a ventilator due to their addiction problems.   They might even be some of those patients you once criticized for their problems that you picked up from the street.   

It is also hypocritical that we have many lengthy threads on EMS forums bashing others with drug and alcohol addiction while some are defending smoking as an addiction.   An addiction should be recognized for what it is and treatment sought.   Just as it is difficult to watch a family member with an alcohol addiction, it is hard to see someone smoking and knowing the potential consequences. 

The effects of smoking will be affect several generations in a family.  If not health problems, financial issues will haunt them.  One catastrophic illness can break the bank account.   Unfortunately, smokers don't always die quickly. They linger for years taking a toll on the whole family.  Many will continue to smoke in their family's presence to ensure that their legacy will continue.   It's not rocket science but a simple co-oximeter measurement, like we do for other carbon monoxide exposures, to see how much second hand smoke people have been exposed to.   

I do hate to see children that are have had multiple intubations and are still living with parents that smoke.  Yes, some human rights lawyers argue that it is the parents' rights to blow smoke in their child's face.  The children have no rights.  Much praise should go to the states that have at least banned smoking in cars with children.    

People that work in EMS may only see a small portion of the people affected by smoking.  For those that work in a busy ED, you will have a better insight.  You will probably be exposed to the extensive patient education that is being done.  In the ED you will also be taking care of children who are hooked up to breathing treatments while the parents are outside having a smoke, sometimes with the EMT(P)s in the ambulance area.  You will also be pouring more albuterol into the nebulizer when the parents come back in to "comfort" their child.   You may also get to do plenty of post mortem care on children that die from asthma attacks.   For those that believe I am being dramatic, read the statistics and educate yourself.   Step outside of your EMS world for a broader view of healthcare problems.   

I can't solve all the world's problems concerning smog or whatever but I can educate one person at a time as they come into my care about the hazards of smoking and how it affects their life and/or the lives of their loved ones.


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## bled12345 (Apr 11, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> I am only talking about people who consider themselves "healthcare professionals" and do realize the bigger scope of smoking and health.    I am lucky that both of my employers (hospital and flight) have banned smoking totally as a condition of hire.  For flight, if you are obese, you are not getting a job either.  Weight restrictions for that job is a requirement.  Go over the limit, you don't fly.  This may also apply for very obese patients and helicopter transport.
> 
> If you want to work in one of our hospitals, you don't smoke.   Our employee health insurance is free to the employee and minimal cost for dependents.
> 
> ...




for the first time in a long time, an anti smoker point of view comes across with some points that actually make sense.   Also, I live in Canada, so health insurance / smoking does not effect my employment. I think that personally is ridiculous.   But alot of things about America seem ridiculous at least to me. I totally empathize with children growing up in homes with smokers when they have asthma, obviously that is not cool.   I'm chewing nicorette right now lol  but not because of all the stereotypical reasons to try to quit,  I want to climb a mountain this summer and being short of breath definately won't help the cause.


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## JPINFV (Apr 11, 2008)

bled12345 said:


> But alot of things about America seem ridiculous at least to me.



If it makes you feel any better, there's plenty of things about Canada that leaves me shaking my head.


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## colafdp (Apr 11, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> If it makes you feel any better, there's plenty of things about Canada that leaves me shaking my head.



would you care to elaborate? 

no i'm not trying to start a fight or anything, i'm just curious. Hell, it could even be the things that we shake our own heads about...haha


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## JPINFV (Apr 11, 2008)

Let's see here. 

Socalized medicine to the point where you aren't allowed to have a private plan. How many Canadians are coming to the states to get 'elective' surgeries done? 

Gun control to the extreme. Yes, sensible gun control is important, but there is a point where you end up disarming a populance without touching crime. Unfortunately, there are plenty of places in the US that are well past this point. Example: Washington DC. 

High taxes (socialized medicine isn't free. You just pay out of your pay check instead of out of your pocket).


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## bled12345 (Apr 11, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> Let's see here.
> 
> Socalized medicine to the point where you aren't allowed to have a private plan. How many Canadians are coming to the states to get 'elective' surgeries done?
> 
> ...



lol.... *WOW*   

1. You can still buy health insurance to cover things like ambulance rides, dental, surgeries that aren't covered by the government etc. Canada still has alot of problems with its medical system, don't get me wrong, but I am 100% happy with a federal run medical system than a private, to me... to have private health care would be like having pepsi buy out the public school system, implementing its own education system.

2. Gun control to the extreme? ummm, lets see if I want to buy a gun, I have to take a 3-5 hour course, get a permit to own a gun, have a criminal record check done, pay for the gun, and register it, viola. Whats so bad about that exactly?  the only people not able to buy guns in Canada are... well.... criminals, and people that don't want a gun bad enough to do a few hours of paperwork.  You may think our gun situation is bad, but I'll take our gameplan for dealing with it over America's based purely on gun  related crime/homicide/suicide/death statistics alone.

3. Where exactly are you getting this information? I made 39,000 $ last year, my income tax for the year came out to about 5,500.   You make it sound like half of canadians paychecks go straight to the government...  


poor to middle class people in both America and Canada get taxed about the same, the difference however lays more in the upper classes, where in America, the richer you get the less taxes you pay, and in Canada the more you pay.


This thread is totally going to get locked, but its a shame that you have such a skewed bias missinformed opinion of your neighbour to the north.


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## bled12345 (Apr 11, 2008)

to be fair, I was kind of misleading in regards to guns in Canada.  Yes you are right, there are more restrictions on the types of ammunition and guns you can buy also.

Things off the top of my head you cannot purchase as a civilian in Canada
-Fully automatic sub machine guns
-Fully automatic assault rifles
-Fully automatic machine guns
-Grenades

With regards to munitions... I *MAY* be wrong, but I believe you cannot buy
-Hollowpoint bullets
-Armour piercing bullets


To me, it makes sense because all of those things posted above, are highly specific PEOPLE KILLING tools.  If you want a gun, you can have one, just not one capable of mowing down dozens of innocent people, or bullets designed specifically to ensure a human beings death.  hey, no skin off my back.  If I wanted to buy an AK-47 with armour piercing bullets, I'd move to the states, but unfortunately my urge to own a human slaying assault rifle is minimal at best  

hahah and wow, talk about derailed. Gotta love message boards >: )


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## bled12345 (Apr 11, 2008)

on a side note, this mickey mouse survey of EMS / medical personnel that smoke is at 33% for smokers, higher than america's average of 22.3 percent based on a quick probably innaccurate statistics website. 


So one could logically come to the conclusion based on these iffy at best factoids, and conclude that there is a higher rate of smokers in the health care field than the average for all people across america. 


If anything, its an ironically provoking concept


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## BossyCow (Apr 11, 2008)

bled12345 said:


> on a side note, this mickey mouse survey of EMS / medical personnel that smoke is at 33% for smokers, higher than america's average of 22.3 percent based on a quick probably innaccurate statistics website.
> 
> 
> So one could logically come to the conclusion based on these iffy at best factoids, and conclude that there is a higher rate of smokers in the health care field than the average for all people across america.
> ...



Or you could interpret it that the non smoking posters of the forum skipped this one or didn't vote. The problem with studies is always how the interpretation of the results can be skewed.


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## Meursault (Apr 11, 2008)

Wow, bled, you're on a roll.

Surprisingly, a forum survey is statistically unsound. It would be interesting to see a real survey, though.

To contribute to the thread's derailment, *guns* are "people-killing tools". It's fun to use them for things like target and competitive shooting or hunting, but they were invented and are intended to put messy holes in humans. Some people are uncomfortable with that, which I find a little strange.

On the other hand, it's not in the public's best interest to allow most people to buy machine guns or grenades. If you really wanted to get yourself a pre-ban battle rifle and load it up with AP, you'd need to choose your state carefully.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 11, 2008)

Get back on topic


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## gcfd_rez31 (Apr 13, 2008)

if you smoke...
you have to do it 20 ft from any building ... here in WA state
IT'S ILLEGAL

i personally don't like the smell of smoke, it's discusting...
but some people start coughing and sneezing if they are around smoke, so why do it when you are in EMS (on duty)???

unless you have some perfume or something to spray on yourself and the smell DISAPPEARS!  or chew gum, but you could be affecting your pt's by smoking & then goin on a call.


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## BossyCow (Apr 13, 2008)

ems_rocks_91 said:


> if you smoke...
> you have to do it 20 ft from any building ... here in WA state
> IT'S ILLEGAL
> 
> ...



Perfume to cover up a bad odor isn't going to help someone that is allergic to the original odor. Adding a new allergen or irritant to the original one only compounds the problem. I don't think many smokers are aware of how much of the smoke lingers on their clothes and around them after they finish a cigarette. 

I've found with my own asthma that there are some brands of cigarettes that really bother me and others where I can stand next to someone smoking and not have it bother me at all. 

From a legal standpoint, an employer cannot legally forbid you from engaging in a legal activity. As long as smoking is legal, your employer cannot fire you for doing it on your own time. An employer can however determine what is allowed on their premises, and what you may do while in their employ. So, saying you may not smoke within so many feet of a building, or that you may not smell of smoke while working are legal. 

There are places that make it a condition of employment that you do not smoke. Those that have been challenged in court have been overturned. But if you are willing to spend lawyer fees to defend your right to ingest a carcinogenic substance at great cost, then I'm guessing you got other issues.


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## gcfd_rez31 (Apr 13, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Perfume to cover up a bad odor isn't going to help someone that is allergic to the original odor. Adding a new allergen or irritant to the original one only compounds the problem. I don't think many smokers are aware of how much of the smoke lingers on their clothes and around them after they finish a cigarette.



true. the perfume can just make matters worse if you have issues with the smells.  but smokers don't really think about it, cuz they are probably used to the smell... but i think it would be polite to keep it in mind!!!


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## rmellish (Apr 13, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Perfume to cover up a bad odor isn't going to help someone that is allergic to the original odor. Adding a new allergen or irritant to the original one only compounds the problem.



And thats why our service frowns on colognes, perfumes, etc.


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## gcfd_rez31 (Apr 13, 2008)

yep yep =]
exactly!


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## aussieemt1980 (Apr 16, 2008)

I am one of those dirty smokers, clogging the atmosphere with my cancer causing chemicals...

I dont smoke in front of patients, inside ambulance vehicles, while at the scene of an incident, and in places where I am not allowed (We have a funny piece of legislation called the Smoke Free Act 2003 that outlines certain areas where smokers are not allowed to be when they light up - most of society is covered in the ban). Believe it or not, the legislation is being expanded to cover private vehicles, homes and air spaces out the front of homes - much like the legislation in the UK.

For the sake of partners and patients, I do however remain discrete and always carry a can of deoderant with me for when I finish smoking, and try and wear other clothing over the top of my uniform (eg a plain jacket). That way I do not intensely smell of cigarette smoke and have a pleasant lynx smell instead. (lynx is a brand of deoderant for those who have not heard of it).

The last company that I worked for actually had it in the contract that you had to quit smoking and not smoke at any stage while employed, both at work and off duty as it detracted from the image of "a positive role model within the health community."

And believe it or not, as a smoker, when I get busy at work, I actually forget that I need the nicotine as I am too busy to care, so it is actually very rare that I have the opportunity to sneak off for a quick "cancer break" any way.


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