# Ambulance Driver = EMT = Medic



## MMiz (May 1, 2006)

For a couple years now, since 9/11, there has been an effort to coin the term "Medic" for everyone working in EMS.

The reasoning is that there are far too many titles, many outdated, and they don't reflect the skill and responsibility of the job.

Here are two videos that give more info.

Medic PSA: Windows Media Player   -   Real Player

*What do you think?

*I'm all for it.


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## Raf (May 1, 2006)

If I were an EMT-B, I would love to be called a medic as I think the term medic is a lot more powerful and prestigious than "EMT".

However, if we start generalizing everyone in EMS to be a medic, how would we distinguish between those who are 'truly' medics?

There's a grand difference between an EMT-B and a Paramedic. There has to be some way to disguinish the two to the public so that they know how much more training a Paramedic has.


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## MMiz (May 1, 2006)

Raf,

You're absolutely right, and that's the whole "deal" with the new term.  

The issue is that they want a standard term to refer to EMT/Medics as, and I understand the need.  When I hear reports on the news, I hear about police, fire, and...


Emergency workers
EMTS
Paramedics
Ambulance crew
Emergency services
Ambulance drivers
Ambulance attendants
They simply want a blanket term.

If we can call LPNs and RNs both nurses, and DOs and MDs both doctors, why can't we call EMTs and Paramedics both paramedics?


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## Jon (May 1, 2006)

I think the Israelis differentiate between Medic and Paramedic


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## nsmedic393 (May 1, 2006)

What a dumb commercial..

Up here we call everyone a paramedic. We have three levels; Primary care paramedic, Intermediate Care Paramedic and Advanced Care Paramedic.

But then again we do alot of stuff differently up here


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## Raf (May 1, 2006)

I think I like your system a lot better nsmedic..
Primary, Intermediate, and Advanced. Simple and straightforward. You can also generalize everyone as "Paramedics" or "Medics".

The U.S. is very conservative with change in titles like this however (just like we are stubborn to change to the Metric system). So I doubt the titles will ever change. (and if they did "officially" change, the old titles would still remain).


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## BrandoEMT (May 1, 2006)

Let me say right now that the PSA I just saw made me dumber than I ever thought I could be.  I want those 10 seconds of my life back!!!  I agree that blanket terms may confuse some people as to skills and education but for lay people it is so much easier since they don't know the specific term.  Plus the term "Medic" rolls off your tongue some much easier than Ambulance Driver EMT-ABCDEFG Worker...From now on I want all of my certifications listed when people address me ;-)


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## nsmedic393 (May 1, 2006)

This might offend some people but......

I have over three years of formal education just to get the title I have. Our BLS level has a year long course. I don't know how I would feel sharing my title with someone who took a 120hr evening course.....

Take it or leave it...


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## MMiz (May 1, 2006)

nsmedic393 said:
			
		

> This might offend some people but......
> 
> I have over three years of formal education just to get the title I have. Our BLS level has a year long course. I don't know how I would feel sharing my title with someone who took a 120hr evening course.....
> 
> Take it or leave it...



I'm not saying what you said is wrong, or irrational, but I think you may be missing the bigger picture.

This isn't about your title or my title.  The idea behind the term "Medic" is our title.  

If an MD can share his or her title with a person who got a PhD in sociology, and a RN can share his or her title with someone who is an LPN, why can you share yours?

Having an ego isn't a bad thing, but what about compromise for the common good?


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## ffemt8978 (May 1, 2006)

nsmedic393 said:
			
		

> What a dumb commercial..
> 
> Up here we call everyone a paramedic. We have three levels; Primary care paramedic, Intermediate Care Paramedic and Advanced Care Paramedic.
> 
> But then again we do alot of stuff differently up here



And down here, everyone is an EMT: EMT-Basic, EMT-Intermediate, EMT-Paramedic

Medic is a lot easier to say and understand in a stressfull situation than EMT.


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## nsmedic393 (May 1, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Medic is a lot easier to say and understand in a stressfull situation than EMT.



I find I get called an ambulance driver by people who are experiencing a stressfull situation more than anything and if not that than they call me adrian.

As far as who should be called what, its all symantics. If you think that the person you are picking up off the ground cares what your title is you are wrong. 

To clarify a little we have four levels of registration PCP, ICP and ACP which I have stated above and we also have a MFR (medical first responder level).
MFRs are used in rural fire departments to provide first response services in areas where the ambulance has a longer than normal response time. They treat until we arrive and do not transport. This MFR level is akin to your EMT-B level. They are registered under the same medical director but are not titles as paramedics because their education does not reflect as such.

Annother consideration is that if you break it down, the EMT-B is actually closer to a "technician" than my definition of a paramedic. They are given a crash course in pre-hospital medicine and they hit the streets. Maybe its just me, but that does not reflect the definition of a "paramedic" than I have in my head.

Like I said earlier, its not going to matter to the person lying on their back one little bit what your title is. And I will concede that US medics all share the title of EMT-X,Y,Q or whatever so why not change the title to medic-x,y,q. In the end its the same person performing the same treatment.


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## EMTBSmokeMonkey (May 1, 2006)

i thought there was 3 EMTs, B-Basic, I-Intermediate and P-Paramedic?????

why not use the term EMT instead of medic?  i think medic and i think back to war movies where they called them all medics and the guy had the nickname "doc".

of course then people who go "WTF is an EMT?" which was why my instructor taught us to introduce ourselves as emergency medical technicians...

nevermind, there's no good answer to this.


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## RebelRescue (May 1, 2006)

Our chief and a lot of the people in the dept are ex-military so everyone with ems training,from 1st responders to paramedics,are usually called "medics" around here.A lot of the people we take care of also seem to use the term medic or emt no matter the level training.Personally I(an EMT)answer to any of them and don't really care.I look at the term "medic" as kind of generic like "nurse".Most people in the hospital don't know or really care wheter the person is a CNA,LPN,or RN to them they are just "nurse" and out in the field performing emergency medicine injuried/sick folks don't know or care about titles either-your there to help them and that's all that really matters.


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## MMiz (May 2, 2006)

I've gone up to *many *patients and said "Hi, my name is Matt, and I'm an EMT with ---."  I can't even count the number of people who ask what an EMT is.  

My response is always "I'm a medic," and they immediately know that I mean.


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## BrandoEMT (May 2, 2006)

So what is the difference between someone calling a Sgt. on the local PD "Officer" rather than his/her rank?  It's easier for the public.  Why confuse them so much, simplify.  Yes, perhaps EMT would be the best solution because it would be the generic title rather than Medic.  However, I don't see how simply assuming someone is a Medic could offend others.  Keep the ranks and professional titles for documents, introductions and within the departments.  If we attempt to specify each licensure to the public then they will just generalize it themselves.  My 2 cents.


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## Wingnut (May 2, 2006)

We are all EMT's here too. I get asked ALL the time what an EMT is, and my friends/family always call me a medic even though I've told them a thousand times I'm not. I'd love to be called a medic, it's more prestigious sounding, and you don't get asked "Well what's that?" but I have 8 months more of school before I can do that.

And no offense to the Paramedics here, but I'd say about half the paramedics I've met no matter how good/or nice they are, have a bit of an ego about thier status and would be REALLY pissed to have thier assistants be categorized in the same way.

Btw, I usually answer the question: I assist the paramedic. Because here we do get to help on scene but generally all we do is the paperwork and driving to the hospital (Medic always drives to the scene, unless for some reason they don't feel like it).

I think smokemonkey had it right there is no good answer for this.


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## fm_emt (May 2, 2006)

"ex-military so everyone with ems training,from 1st responders to paramedics,are usually called "medics" around here."

That's what got me in trouble. I got *****ed out for my screenname because of it too. Although I was never in the military, I grew up around it, and my dad's war stories made it stick too. 

And yeah, everyone says "An EM-what?" Then to make matters worse, when I say "Technician" they look at me as if they think I'm the telecom guy from Verizon.


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## EMTBSmokeMonkey (May 2, 2006)

rcmedic said:
			
		

> "ex-military so everyone with ems training,from 1st responders to paramedics,are usually called "medics" around here."
> 
> That's what got me in trouble. I got *****ed out for my screenname because of it too. Although I was never in the military, I grew up around it, and my dad's war stories made it stick too.
> 
> And yeah, everyone says "An EM-what?" Then to make matters worse, when I say "Technician" they look at me as if they think I'm the telecom guy from Verizon.




try being an auto tech!

"automotive technician? oh you mean mechanic!"

"whatever..."

so i went from working on cars and being a tech to working on people and still being a tech and people still thinking technician doesnt fit in there somehow.

i just say something to the effect of "we're the people that show up in the ambulances when you call 911"  its dumbed down but EVERYONE understands it.


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## MedicPrincess (May 2, 2006)

Usually, for me when I tell someone i am an EMT and they give me that :unsure: :unsure: crazy look. I just tell them i work for the ambulance. Then its like OHHHH...

But then, just about every single time comes the next question.....


"Whats the difference between you and the other guy?"

I tell'em the other guy is the Paramedic.  And that is followed by the same question..

"Well whats the difference?"


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## Jon (May 2, 2006)

I liked how many Acadian providers were in there


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## Raf (May 2, 2006)

I know there is a big difference between an EMT-B and a Paramedic in terms of training, but I think for practicality everyone should be called medics. 

I believe there should be some sort of indication so that people realize paramedics have so much more training. Some sort of special uniform or symbol should be given to them.


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## RebelRescue (May 2, 2006)

Raf said:
			
		

> I know there is a big difference between an EMT-B and a Paramedic in terms of training, but I think for practicality everyone should be called medics.
> 
> I believe there should be some sort of indication so that people realize paramedics have so much more training. Some sort of special uniform or symbol should be given to them.



I agree!How about a large S on the chest and a cape?


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## JJR512 (May 2, 2006)

I don't believe I've experienced any confusion yet when I tell people I'm training to be an EMT. But I'm still a newbie, so I guess I'll get it sooner or later...


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## Jon (May 2, 2006)

RebelRescue said:
			
		

> I agree!How about a large S on the chest and a cape?


Yeah... Ok...

S for Stupid?


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## Raf (May 2, 2006)

When I told my family I was taking an EMT-B course at the thanksgiving table they all thought it was something for firefighters. Although it can be, it's really unrelated to firefighting if you're just working on ambulances like I hope to be doing.


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## squid (May 4, 2006)

We're all "medics" around here in casual usage too. Which can drive you up a wall when people decide to suddenly use "medic" for "paramedic", and tell you the new medic is a medic unlike the other medics and then your head explodes 

IME, none of our patients really know the difference. I'm not sure if terminology would help matters at all, but I have no problem calling everyone a "medic," since that's what I already do


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## joemt (May 4, 2006)

Main Entry: 2medic
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin medicus
: one engaged in medical work or study

from the meriam-webster dictionary online..... 

I'm not really particular.... but, I often refer to "us" as a group as "medics".... Notice I didn't say "Paramedics" because we're not... but we ARE all "engaged in medical work or study"...  Honestly, I couldn't care less how others feel about the term... point me towards the patient and let me do my job!

Of course, that's just my 2 cents, as a lowly "Medic" (Please read as EMT-B )


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## Raf (May 4, 2006)

I think the role of the EMT has changed drastically since the term was first introduced. EMT's were originally mainly just ambulance drivers, performed technical tasks around the ambulance, and aided the medics. That's according to wikipedia's entry at least.

The term's should be updated to reflect the most current roles.


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## VinBin (May 4, 2006)

Ive heard this term a few times, how about all EMT's, EMT-I's and Paramedics are covered under "Emergency Medical Responders". and then keep Medic to paramedics. I think Medic is a good distinction for those who are at the highest level (for the most part) in prehospital care.

Althought I think the many who stated that the people we respond to don't really care (as long as we help) are right...


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## ffemt8978 (May 5, 2006)

We have a large immigrant/migrant population in our area, most of us speak very limited spanish (and not very well, either).  Which would you rather say when you arrive (and for those of you that speak spanish, please feel free to correct me if my translations aren't correct)

"Soy un technician de medicina emergencia" - I'm an emergency medical technician
"Soy uno medico" - I'm a medic


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## nsmedic393 (May 5, 2006)

Raf said:
			
		

> I think the role of the EMT has changed drastically since the term was first introduced. EMT's were originally mainly just ambulance drivers, performed technical tasks around the ambulance, and aided the medics. That's according to wikipedia's entry at least.
> 
> The term's should be updated to reflect the most current roles.



What exactly has changed so drastically?


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## Raf (May 5, 2006)

EMT's can operate and provide care on their own now. You can have a BLS unit with just two EMT-B's. They don't just "aid" paramedics and they can perform a lot more medical service than they used to be able to.

Here's the entry from wikipedia:

"Once thought of as an "ambulance driver or attendant," the modern EMT performs many more duties than in the past, and responds to many types of emergency calls, including medical emergencies, hazardous materials exposure, childbirth, child abuse, fires, injuries, trauma and psychiatric crises"


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## nsmedic393 (May 5, 2006)

While you are correct that BLS trucks run the roads, I think the term technician still applies.
Also with the very limited EMT-B scope of practice perhaps mooving from a supporting role to a sole provider role is a "drastic change" but not necessarily for the better.


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## BrandoEMT (May 5, 2006)

Let's not all forget that everyone was an EMT-B at one time.  This is the level of licensure we solidify our understanding and skill usage of the "basic" techinques and information.  Yes, Medic or Paramedic is a more affluent title but I think we are missing the point.  This change in title isn't because of internal rank or licensure but for the PUBLIC....

I agree with the example of Spanish speaking. People understand and it's easier to say I'm a medic rather than everything else then confuse the pt and have to explain it again.

Remember, PUBLIC = Ignorant


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## TripperAdam (May 9, 2006)

I think simplifying it to "medic" when approaching a patient or bystander makes more sense that giving them a title that can start a slippery-slope conversation.

Living up here in Toronto, we also have different "Paramedic" levels from Primary, Intermediate, to Advanced... (and in Ontario a Primary Care Paramedic needs two years of schooling anyways). 

While I don't (yet) work in EMS, and am only trained as a (Wilderness) First Responder, I take my skills seriously enough that I am always equipped with a small kit, and am always ready to respond to a situation. I haven't yet had a chance put my skills to use as a lay rescuer (though I approach car crash scenes and the such to see if help is needed). 
The thing is, though, that people are generally confused by the term "First Responder" as well - if I blurted it out on a scene it could be interpreted in someones ears as, well, having nothing to do with medical help. 
So if I were to be in a situation to help someone, I would also need to dumb it down --- though it would be hugely irresponsible of me to title myself as a "medic" to a confused patient or bystander, since they might then expect more of me than I am trained (seeing as my measly 80 hours of training doesn't even approach the range of expertise even a PCP has)... so I would just say "I have advanced first aid training!" 
JUST "first aid" might make people iffy about letting me help them, but I'm sure the "Advanced" would probably leave a quick and positive impression.


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## Guardian (May 12, 2006)

This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart.  I either have a very large ego or a very small ego, but I definitly have ego problems.  That said, paramedicine is my life.  To me, it is much more than a hobby or job.  Being grouped together with every big, dumb, redneck who happened to take an EMT-B class makes me sick to my stomach.  In most cases, Paramedics are true health care professionals with years of college level training.  Bubba Ray Jackass with glorified first-aid training is not in my league.  When he goes around telling the public that he's a Medic, this upsets me.  There are a lot of good, well-meaning EMT's that I respect, so calm down! I can see you're getting flustered.  People know the difference between RN and LPN and know to ask for clarification immediatly.  There aren't enough DO's to really matter.  People don't know enough to clarify EMT vs. Paramedic and this also upsets me.  I want Paramedics to be looked at as Gods so that we can attract the best to this profession and make it something we can all be proud of.  Letting all of the dime-a-dozen Bubbas represent us will destroy us by ruining our credability.  Medic does not equal credability, Paramedic equals credability.  So lets get back to the days of Jonny and Roy and be heros agian.


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## ffemt8978 (May 12, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I either have a very large ego or a very small ego, but I definitly have ego problems. That said, paramedicine is my life. To me, it is much more than a hobby or job. Being grouped together with every big, dumb, redneck who happened to take an EMT-B class makes me sick to my stomach. In most cases, Paramedics are true health care professionals with years of college level training. Bubba Ray Jackass with glorified first-aid training is not in my league. When he goes around telling the public that he's a Medic, this upsets me. There are a lot of good, well-meaning EMT's that I respect, so calm down! I can see you're getting flustered. People know the difference between RN and LPN and know to ask for clarification immediatly. There aren't enough DO's to really matter. People don't know enough to clarify EMT vs. Paramedic and this also upsets me. I want Paramedics to be looked at as Gods so that we can attract the best to this profession and make it something we can all be proud of. Letting all of the dime-a-dozen Bubbas represent us will destroy us by ruining our credability. Medic does not equal credability, Paramedic equals credability. So lets get back to the days of Jonny and Roy and be heros agian.


First things first...welcome to EMTLife.com.

Now that that's out of the way, yes you do have an ego problem. Your ego prevents you from realizing that it's more than a job or a hobby to us "big, dumb, redneck". Just because you're a paramedic doesn't mean that you have a monopoly on providing prehospital care to patients. For you to lump us all into one group is no different than catagorizing all paramedics as paragods.



> When he goes around telling the public that he's a Medic, this upsets me.


 Get over it...we're all medics, as in Emergency *MEDIC*al Technicians. We're not all paramedics, and we don't claim to be. Paramedics will never be looked at as Gods, and if you really think that can happen, you're suffering from Cranial-Rectal Inversion.



> Bubba Ray Jackass with glorified first-aid training is not in my league


 This is the one thing I agree with you about...the "Bubba Ray Jackasses" are so far out of your league that it's pathetic. They obviously care more about their profession than what they perceive their public image to be.



> Letting all of the dime-a-dozen Bubbas represent us will destroy us by ruining our credability. Medic does not equal credability, Paramedic equals credability


 This is such a case of credential envy that it's truly saddening. None of these things equals credibility. You really want to know what brings credibility to our profession? *Competency, professionalism, and compassion*, not the patch you're wearing on your arm.



> So lets get back to the days of Jonny and Roy and be heros


 Maybe you should stop watching so much TV and get out in the field and see what can happen when the entire EMS system works together instead of worrying and complaining about how you're identified by the public.



> There are a lot of good, well-meaning EMT's that I respect, so calm down! I can see you're getting flustered


 There are many prehospital care providers that I respect (First aiders, FR, EMT's, and Paramedics) but you will never be one of them.




_NOTE: These are my opinions only and in no way reflect the views of EMTLife.com or any of the other Admins/Mods here. - ffemt8978_


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## joemt (May 12, 2006)

I have to agree 100% with ffemt8978.... I'm sorry that you've had so many problems with the "Bubba's" out there, but I assure you that they are in the minority.... 

I too have great respect for all of the PARAmedics that I work with, whether they are my favorite people outside of work really holds no credence to how they do patient care.  Based totally on the comments in your post, I can assure you that I would not respect your ideas / opinions (although I DO respect your right to have them) if I was to have the opportunity to work with you.


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## natrab (May 12, 2006)

As far as the "Bubbas" go, I've seen as many that are paramedics as are EMTs.  I think medic is a fine term for ems personal to the non-industry person.  Of course we will differentiate within our industry.  We are ALL medical professionals, though some don't act like it.  It's crucial for EMTs to understand their BLS skills and use them - they're the same skills that paramedics are using from the start.  Performing good CPR as well as a good assessment can save someone's life.  That makes you a professional in my book.  When the SHTF, egos need to go out the door.  Our dispatch still tells RPs that "Paramedics are on the way" when in reality, there's only one coming.  I've heard BLS fire say countless times that "medics" are here when we get there.  That's fine.  They know that I'm not trained any further than they are.  We're a team.  I'm not trying to be a more important EMT than one of them because it says "Paramedics" on my ambulance.

On that note, they generally do defer to me when it comes down to it because I usually know what my partner will want (if not I'll defer to him/her).

I can't stress the "same team" mentality.  When someone's laying on the ground missing limbs after an MVA, they want to hear a familiar word for who's caring for them.  "Medics" or even "Paramedics" work.  Granted they're not going to be getting much more than BLS service.


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## Guardian (May 12, 2006)

Well, I guess nobody agrees with me.  This is why I am currently pre-med and so many of my friends who were great paramedics now have their RN or MD or DO.  This is why we don't get the respect we deserve at the hospitals.  This is why I get paid only 12 bucks an hour running on average 9 calls in a 12 hour shift in the inner city.  This is why we are turning into a taxi service for the poor.  I see paramedics in other countries who are respected and there are long waiting lists of applicants hoping beyond hope to work on a moble intensive care unit, not a glorified taxi like here in the USA.  Tell you what, lets just let RN's start calling themselves doctors.  After all, they work really hard and do a lot of the same things MD's do.  It's just to hard remembering the difference between MD and RN so lets call all of them doctors to make it simple for people.  Besides, we cant let the ego of our MDs get out of control, we cant let them actually take pride in their superior training can we?


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## ffemt8978 (May 12, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Well, I guess nobody agrees with me. This is why I am currently pre-med and so many of my friends who were great paramedics now have their RN or MD or DO. This is why we don't get the respect we deserve at the hospitals. This is why I get paid only 12 bucks an hour running on average 9 calls in a 12 hour shift in the inner city. This is why we are turning into a taxi service for the poor. I see paramedics in other countries who are respected and there are long waiting lists of applicants hoping beyond hope to work on a moble intensive care unit, not a glorified taxi like here in the USA. Tell you what, lets just let RN's start calling themselves doctors. After all, they work really hard and do a lot of the same things MD's do. It's just to hard remembering the difference between MD and RN so lets call all of them doctors to make it simple for people. Besides, we cant let the ego of our MDs get out of control, we cant let them actually take pride in their superior training can we?



Okay, now I'm confused....

Since nobody agrees with you about this subject, that is the cause of the lack of respect you feel you deserve from the hospitals?  Or am I just misunderstanding you because of your superior training?

Taking pride in your accomplishments is a great thing, and you should do that.  Taking that same pride and looking down or being condesending towards others that haven't completed that same training is arrogance, not pride.

I agree that sometimes it seems like we are nothing more than an expensive taxi service for the poor.  But is that caused by the EMT's that cover approximately 90% of the area in this country, or could it be caused by our current healthcare system?  Things like COBRA, malpractice and negligence lawsuits, providing lifesaving medical care to people that can't afford it, and such.

Getting back to keeping it simple for people, I always thought "paramedic" meant "similar to a medic", not "medic".  The only true medics that I know of were in the military.  By the way, what's printed on your certification (not your degree)?  "Paramedic" or "Emergency Medical Technician - Paramedic"?


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## Guardian (May 12, 2006)

Ego's can be a good thing guys.  Do you want some timid little MD preforming emergency surgery on you or do you want a larger than life cocky know it all who can back up what he/she says.  Sure, too much of anything can be a bad thing but in the words of the great Dr. Phil, "lets get real."  Farmer brown with emt-b training does not deserve to hold my title.  People should not be lied too (ex. dispatcher telling someone that paramedics are on the way and having a couple of FR's show up).  When an emergency MD steps into the trauma room in the ED, does he say "were all equals here, what do you think i should do?" or does he start giving orders.  I know for a fact that my ego has saved lives..........................just something to think about


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## Guardian (May 12, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Okay, now I'm confused....
> 
> Since nobody agrees with you about this subject, that is the cause of the lack of respect you feel you deserve from the hospitals? Or am I just misunderstanding you because of your superior training?


commenting of english grammer skills to avoid real issues are we?


> Taking pride in your accomplishments is a great thing, and you should do that. Taking that same pride and looking down or being condesending towards others that haven't completed that same training is arrogance, not pride.


Your right, I tired of those condesending MDs looking down on RNs


> I agree that sometimes it seems like we are nothing more than an expensive taxi service for the poor. But is that caused by the EMT's that cover approximately 90% of the area in this country, or could it be caused by our current healthcare system? Things like COBRA, malpractice and negligence lawsuits, providing lifesaving medical care to people that can't afford it, and such.


Sure the health care system plays a big role in our problems but they won't give us the time of day if they don't respect us


> Getting back to keeping it simple for people, I always thought "paramedic" meant "similar to a medic", not "medic". The only true medics that I know of were in the military. By the way, what's printed on your certification (not your degree)? "Paramedic" or "Emergency Medical Technician - Paramedic"?



FYI, I consider myself to be way above the average military combat medic trained in crash course of BTLS. I'm trained to handle almost every emergency in every age group with state of the art equipment.


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## JJR512 (May 12, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Ego's can be a good thing guys. Do you want some timid little MD preforming emergency surgery on you or do you want a larger than life cocky know it all who can back up what he/she says.


I want the best doctor performing emergency surgery on me, and I don't care what his personality or ego is, I don't care if he's timid or a loudmouth. You're combining two different things in an attempt to make a point and it doesn't hold up. Just because one doctor acts like a "cocky know-it-all", it doesn't necessarily mean he can back up what he says. Nor does it necessarily follow that the timid doctor isn't one of the best doctors on the planet.



			
				Guardian said:
			
		

> Sure, too much of anything can be a bad thing but in the words of the great Dr. Phil, "lets get real." Farmer brown with emt-b training does not deserve to hold my title.


Somehow I doubt Dr. Phil would really approve of your attitude, but that's beside the point...Getting back to the point: Nobody is suggesting EMT-Bs be given your title. Your title is "EMT-P" or "Paramedic". In case you didn't notice, what some are suggesting is the title "medic" be universally applied to all pre-hospital emergency medicine providers whose certification titles start with "EMT", whethever what follows is "-P", "-B", "-I" or whatever. Please try to understand that. You're a "paramedic", people are suggesting all EMTs at any level be called "medics" for brevity and clarity, "medic" does not equal "paramedic", *so nobody is suggesting that non-paramedics be called by your title*. So get over it.

Oh, and please stop equating all EMT-Bs with redneck bubba farmer brown. Just as those guys wouldn't like being called "city folk", those of us who actually _are_ city folk don't like being called redneck bubbas. (Short version of this paragraph: If you're trying to make an enlightening point, don't make ignorant generalizations.) Thank you.


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## Guardian (May 13, 2006)

I tend to think you are the one tring to generalize.  I never said every emt-b was a lowly redneck.  Believe it or not, even i was an EMT-B once a long time ago.  You're the one generalizing calling every tom, **** and uncle joe bob with an emt card a medic.


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## Guardian (May 13, 2006)

my only point was that ego is not always a bad thing and from my experience,  the good healthcare providers usually have big egos for a reason.


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## MMiz (May 13, 2006)

I'm a bit late to the fun, but I can't help but jump in.  My BS-o-meter is ringing off the charts.  



> Well, I guess nobody agrees with me.  This is why I am currently pre-med and so many of my friends who were great paramedics now have their RN or MD or DO.



Being pre-med is like winning the Special Olympics... well you get my drift.  You could be pre-med at a community college, or pre-med at Johns Hopkins.  

I thought you didn't know any DOs?  I thought they weren't common?  Around here we have tons of DOs.  Sometimes I've been at a hospital and couldn't find an MD.



> This is why we don't get the respect we deserve at the hospitals.  This is why I get paid only 12 bucks an hour running on average 9 calls in a 12 hour shift in the inner city.



There are many reasons why *you* don't get the respect at the hospital.  The hospitals respect me and my partners quite a bit.  We treat the hospital staff with respect, dress neatly, do a damn good job, and treat the patients as we'd treat our own family, and the RNs and MDs love us (even the DO's!)

You make $12 for many reasons.  Partly because of the lack of education required to be both an EMT and Paramedic, partly because of the high cost of providing EMS services, and partly because a million other reasons.  In the inner-city around here Paramedics make $16 an hour, and the real money in EMS comes with overtime.  I don't know many other professions that give out so much overtime!



> This is why we are turning into a taxi service for the poor.



Really?  Oh god help me now.  EMS is a taxi for the poor for hundreds of reasons.  I can't think of a single reason that includes an EMT as the excuse.



> I see paramedics in other countries who are respected and there are long waiting lists of applicants hoping beyond hope to work on a moble intensive care unit, not a glorified taxi like here in the USA.



I work for a service in a country called the *United States of America*.  There is a waiting list to be hired at my service, and Paramedics go through intensive college-sponsored training to become Critical Care Paramedics.  They even get a huge truck with more crap on it than could ever fit in my BLS mod (We moved up from the Type II vans last year, life has been great).



> Tell you what, lets just let RN's start calling themselves doctors.  After all, they work really hard and do a lot of the same things MD's do.



Nah, we have nurses and doctors.  A nurse is an RN, BSN, LPN, etc.  Doctors are the MDs and DOs.  A doctor is a doctor, and a nurse is a nurse.



> It's just to hard remembering the difference between MD and RN so lets call all of them doctors to make it simple for people.  Besides, we cant let the ego of our MDs get out of control, we cant let them actually take pride in their superior training can we?



Deep breath... in.. and out... and in.... and out.

When I read your first message, and then your reply, my first instinct was to tell you to take a deep breath, go sit in a chair outside my classroom, and write down on a piece of paper why I sent you out there.  

Then you'd write "Because you disagree with what I say," to which I'd reply "Nah, that's just a cop-out."

I'd then ask you why you were so angry.  Did I make you angry?  Did I treat you unfairly?  What about some of your board-mates?  Did someone on this forum treat you unfairly?  

You'd give me some BS response about this, that, and why you're a damn good paramedic.  I'd reassure you that you may be the best damn paramedic on this forum, but that you're clearly angry about something else.  

When it was all said and done we'd be at the root of the problem; why you're so insecure about your position as a Paramedic.

See, I stole this example from my seventh grade classroom.  I think this is *your* issue, not ours.

I love when people disagree.  I love to have a passionate debate.  But I absolutely won't tolerate ignorance or belittling of others in my classroom or my forum.

That said, I think you need to take some time to evaluate your insecurities.  There are countless ways that each and every forum member on this forum is better than you, but they're far too humble to belittle you.  

*They're professionals*.


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## Guardian (May 13, 2006)

[/QUOTE]





			
				JJR512 said:
			
		

> I want the best doctor performing emergency surgery on me, and I don't care what his personality or ego is, I don't care if he's timid or a loudmouth. You're combining two different things in an attempt to make a point and it doesn't hold up. Just because one doctor acts like a "cocky know-it-all", it doesn't necessarily mean he can back up what he says. Nor does it necessarily follow that the timid doctor isn't one of the best doctors on the planet.
> 
> 
> Somehow I doubt Dr. Phil would really approve of your attitude, but that's beside the point...Getting back to the point: Nobody is suggesting EMT-Bs be given your title. Your title is "EMT-P" or "Paramedic". In case you didn't notice, what some are suggesting is the title "medic" be universally applied to all pre-hospital emergency medicine providers whose certification titles start with "EMT", whethever what follows is "-P", "-B", "-I" or whatever. Please try to understand that. You're a "paramedic", people are suggesting all EMTs at any level be called "medics" for brevity and clarity, "medic" does not equal "paramedic", *so nobody is suggesting that non-paramedics be called by your title*. So get over it.
> ...





"nobody is suggesting that non-paramedics be called by your title...So get over it"  

well i'll be, i'm over it now. I was really upset there for a second but now i am totally over it just because you said to get over it so thanks

I'm going to try and make this as simple as i can, when you call everyone Medic, people will not know the difference from  an emt and paramedic.  When you call yourself a medic, people will mistake your job from mine.  I'm sure this makes you very happy because you would love to be a paramedic but as for me, i feel sick.  Put yourself in my shoes for a second.  I told a family member what i did not to long ago and they automatically compared me to an emt they knew who volunteered down from where they lived.  This volunteer was a fairly typical obese, beer drinking, redneck with huge tires on his tiny peice of crap ford explorer complete with rebel flag.  This guy has an 8th grade education. In short, i love the guy, but i want people to know that i'm a little better than him and that what i do is a real career and not just an excuse to come and watch tv with my friends at the station.........get the picture?


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## ffemt8978 (May 13, 2006)

Thanks, MMiz.  I was trying to figure out how to say the same thing, but being out in the sticks I guess I'm not edumacted enough yet.


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## Guardian (May 13, 2006)

MMiz said:
			
		

> I'm a bit late to the fun, but I can't help but jump in.  My BS-o-meter is ringing off the charts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Please go back and read this thread carefully, you're so far off the mark it isn't even funny............where do i even start?......................

your pre-med comment is valid but you missed my point that GOOD PEOPLE ARE LEAVING EMS, that was the point for god sakes

I never said i didn't know any DO's, you dreamed this up, I simply wrote there are far fewer DOs than MDs and if where you live there are more DOs then thats just plain weird in my opinion

If you read on, you would have seen that I blame our low wages on a lack of respect for ems providers and that bubba will certainly not help with this problem

by saying that all RNs should be called doctors, I was sarcastic _*Removed Personal Attack,*_, you would see the obvious comparsion( RN is to MD as Emt-b is to Paramedic)

Lastly, i'm not angry, i'm just passionate about this issue.............


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## Guardian (May 13, 2006)

ffemt8being out in the sticks I guess I'm not edumacted enough yet. ;)[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> for once, i agree with you....................just kidding


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## Guardian (May 13, 2006)

In my last post, i was a little meaner than i meant to be, so i'm going to do something that i never do and say i'm sorry.  now, bring it on suckers, i really feel strongly about this issue and i'm willing to debate it everyday if i have to. I will do just about anything to save our profession.


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## Chimpie (May 13, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> ...I'm going to try and make this as simple as i can, when you call everyone Medic, people will not know the difference from an emt and paramedic.


 
People already don't know the difference between EMT and Paramedic. The only ones that do are the ones in the profession (MFRs, EMTs, Paramedics, and some doctors and nurses). 

Most of the general public has no idea. All they know is that they called 911, an ambulance shows up on scene, they put the pt in the back of the ambulance and they go to the hospital. They know they pt is getting some kind of care on the way to the hospital but they don't know what. And all they really care about is that they get the best care possible.

They are not concerned with titles, and neither should you. It's the care that you are providing the patient that is most important. Anything else is just wasted air.


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## JJR512 (May 13, 2006)

What Chimpie has said above was going to be pretty much my point in response to Post #48 above: To the patient, it doesn't matter if we're an EMT-B or -I or -P. They just want to be helped.

Imagine this little scenario: Patient is on the ground for whatever reason, 911 has been called, an ambulance shows up with an EMT-B and a Paramedic. They walk up to the patient. One says, "Hi, I'm JJR512, I'm an EMT," the other says, "Hi, I'm Guardian, I'm a Paramedic." The patient looks at both and says, "Are you here to help me?" Both say yes. The patient smiles.

Get it?

We all already have several common titles. We're all EMTs at one level or another. We're all pre-hospital emergency medical providers. But it's not really that easy or expedient to walk up to a patient and say, "Hi, I'm Justin, I'm a pre-hospital emergency medical provider with the Anne Arundel County Fire Department."

For the record, I am not yet decided one way or the other on the use of "medic". I agree with many people here that it may be the best simple term to use for pre-hospital providers. However, in my (admittedly short, and only as a student) experience so far, nobody has been confused by the term EMT. Everyone I have talked to knows that EMT = pre-hospital emergency medical provider. They also know that Paramedic = pre-hospital emergency medical provider. I don't know if they know the difference between EMT and Paramedic or not, but once again, to the patient, it doesn't matter if they know what the difference is or even if there is a difference.

The only people that difference really matters to are the people who train, certify, supervise, work with, and pay (if applicable, as many are volunteers) you.


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## TripperAdam (May 13, 2006)

Guardian, your "passion" in this issue is that *:censored by Chimpie:* and like someone else mentioned, your source of anger is YOUR issue. Yes, you're ego --- you keep suggesting that every EMT is a redneck, bear drinking bubba.... but I bet back you you were an EMT B you'd be asking for more respect, and you certainly wouldn't appreciate a Paramedic down talking you.
Someone who is an EMT-B can certainly be as dedicated at their profession, at saving lives. Just because you've gotten extra training doesn't make you "better" than that other person. Sure, you've got a higher scope of practice, way more in-depth knowledge of the human body and how to keep it living... but doesn't make you a better person.
Pride is useful for putting oneself on a pedestal, if that's what you want - If you feel that you need to cushion yourself from your peers of lower training. It will easily set you up for dissapointment later on, once you start to drive potential friends away.
Pull your head out, take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
"What goals and values might I share with an EMT? Why I am in EMS? Why is that EMT-B in EMS? Does it make sense for me to look down on them?"


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## Wingnut (May 13, 2006)

There is a HUGE difference between confidence and ego.

There are some people who work in EMS to help people and some who work for the uniform, the "celebrity" (what there is of it), and these are the people who are usually pissed off about things like this.

And that's all I have to say about that.


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## TripperAdam (May 13, 2006)

P.S.

You used the example "my ego has saved lives", and that you'd rather see a cocky doctor than a quiet one.

I think what you're trying to say is that a beneficial attribute in ER or EMS is to be "assertive," is to make things happen quickly. Yes, this may imply that orders need to be barked from the person of highest training. It's irrelevent what the person thinks of themself --- an egalitarian can still get things done as just as quickly as someone with "cranical rectal inversion."
It's confidence that will make someone an proficient "medic,"... but confidence doesn't imply pride.


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## BrandoEMT (May 13, 2006)

I don't have much time here so I'll post more in-depth later but can we all agree that we are ALL EMTs?  We're just a different letter at the end.  At my new company they distingush us as EMT or Paramedic.  Instead, why don't we call ourselves Basics, Intermediates, Tacticals and Paramedics?

Yes being passionate is a good attribute, I think everyone on this thread needs to cool down a bit.  

Let me continue this later. See Ya!

B


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## Jon (May 14, 2006)

Holy Cow... I'm away for a day or two, and I miss ALL this arguement?



> I'm going to try and make this as simple as i can, when you call everyone Medic, people will not know the difference from an emt and paramedic. When you call yourself a medic, people will mistake your job from mine.


Can they tell the difference now? I've had my choice of phrases to use (with different squads) when I knock on doors or introduce myself... Fire Department, Ambulance, EMT, Paramedics, EMS. I've never had someone know the difference between them. Never had anyone other than an on-scene EMT ask if I'm ALS vs. BLS. No one knows the difference between a MFR firefighter and a EMT-P until we explain it.


> I'm sure this makes you very happy because you would love to be a paramedic


I do want to be a paramedic... but I want to "earn" the title. I'm not really fond of the "Medic" idea either, but some places (Israel) have "Medic" vs. "Paramedic"


> but as for me, i feel sick. Put yourself in my shoes for a second. I told a family member what i did not to long ago and they automatically compared me to an emt they knew who volunteered down from where they lived.


You are similar. You are in the same field... you just have more training, and probably do this for money rather than for free.

A Peditrician has the same basic training as a Neurosurgeon... The Neurosurgeon just has a LOAD more training in some VERY complex stuff... Peditricians can still treat patients, and are sometimes better at the "basic" stuff... They just aren't high-end specialists.


> This volunteer was a fairly typical obese, beer drinking, redneck with huge tires on his tiny peice of crap ford explorer complete with rebel flag. This guy has an 8th grade education.


So?


> In short, i love the guy, but i want people to know that i'm a little better than him and that what i do is a real career and not just an excuse to come and watch tv with my friends at the station.........get the picture?


Plenty of EMT's do this as a "real career" too. You don't have to be a paramedic to do this as a career. However, if you ARE doing this as a career, I think we agree that you should be a caring and PROFESSIONAL provider. I've seen plenty of folks who are caring and professional EMT's work as Volunteers. It seems your issue with "Bubba" is his "presentation"


Anyway... I'm tired, and I think I can't go to bed yet... I just had someone call and ask if we'd take them to "their" hospital... I told them to call 9-1-1. I'm 2nd crew, but 1st crew is out... Darn.. I've got to work tomorrow. Anyway.. if this isn't totally logical... I'm sorry... I'll correct any misconceptions Sunday or Monday 

Jon


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## RebelRescue (May 14, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> I want Paramedics to be looked at as Gods so that we can attract the best to this profession and make it something we can all be proud of.



Dam talk about a serious case of paragod syndrome.Did you take a special class in egotistical or does that just come naturally?


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## RebelRescue (May 14, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Ego's can be a good thing guys. Do you want some timid little MD preforming emergency surgery on you or do you want a larger than life cocky know it all who can back up what he/she says. Sure, too much of anything can be a bad thing but in the words of the great Dr. Phil, "lets get real." Farmer brown with emt-b training does not deserve to hold my title. People should not be lied too (ex. dispatcher telling someone that paramedics are on the way and having a couple of FR's show up). When an emergency MD steps into the trauma room in the ED, does he say "were all equals here, what do you think i should do?" or does he start giving orders. I know for a fact that my ego has saved lives..........................just something to think about


Every paramedic I've seen with an ego like yours had absolutely lousy patient rapport which,IMO,is very important in our field.

If you aren't getting any respect it's probably because your not giving any.

Just how much field experience have you had anyway?From the _EDITED_ statements in your posts it sounds like your only experience is in the classroom and from watching tv.

Speaking of tv I think you may be having difficulty seperating fantasy from reality-get help............seriously.


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## Firechic (May 14, 2006)

As far as the public is concerned, they can refer to me as a "medic" since as a whole they usually are not current with correct terminology (eg: how many people still call flight attendants "airline stewardesses"). As long as they know I am there to take care of them when they call.



> you would see the obvious comparsion( RN is to MD as Emt-b is to Paramedic)



I don't where you got this from, but it's a wrong analogy. EMT-B and Paramedic are in the same field. RNs and MDs are two different animals all together.

RebelRescue asked a very good question regarding Guardian's experience. Normally, if you've been doing this job for some time, you can smell a rookie when one is around!


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

Bio info: 5 years inner city paramedic in city thats always ranked in top ten for violent crime, 3 of which full time 48hrs/week, and the other 2 part time approx 15hrs/week running usually 6-10 calls per/12hrs.

I run a lot of B.S., but I also run some real ones(GSW,stabbing,Arrests.....), I now push narcan about 3 times a month and it usually works 2 out of the three times (and i did push a lot more working full time hours).

I not claiming to be an expert, but i'm not a rookie and I wrote the above to hopefully establish this fact, not to be belittled.


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

As far as my pt rapport, where i work, it's critical to have good rapport.  If not, theres a good chance somthing bad will happen (eg. killed by indig. pop.)


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

As far a separating fantasy from reality, your right, i don't.  Fantasy is usually idealistic and that's what I want the real world to be like.  When it comes to ems, i'm usually try to be perfect even though i know i'll never reach perfection and the same applies to my views on life.............


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

I really feel that most of you don't realize the importance of public perception of ems.  Most of you want to go around helping people and expect nothing in return which can be a good thing.  I on the other hand want something in return.  I want to be looked up to as a professional hero, a man who comes to your aid in your darkest hour, a man who can be trusted with your life, a man who can get the job done no matter what the odds.........

This following is my KEY point, so please read very carefully.  Ems has changed from its early days because of a change in public perception.  Let me explain.  Back in the days of Emergency(jonny and roy.....yes, I love tv and i don't care what you think), there were ambulance drivers and then there were these highly trained brave professionals called paramedics who would practice emergency medicine in the field.  The show was a little cheesy but people liked it because its nice to think there are heros like jonny and roy there to serve you.  Back in the early days, voly squads were poping up all over the place because everyone wanted to be a hero like jonny and roy and voly squads would pick and choose only the best applicants and you were expected to act like a professional.  All the cool kids in high school wanted to be involved with ems.  Things have changed over the years.  Now voly squads are disappearing due to lack of applicants and only a few dorky kids in high school want to be ems providers. 

So what has changed.  The training has increased and we can do more now on standing orders than ever before so you would think ems would be more popular than ever, but it's not. What has changed is public perception.  There is no interest in ems because we are nothing more than ambulance drivers again or at least were heading in that direction.  Now time for some subjection: Paramedics are now grouped with emts and FRs who want to call themselves Medics.  The paramedic came first.  Then emts and other assorted FRs started popping up to cover rural areas who wanted something simular to what the "big cities" had.  

Over the years, the public has had many run-ins with these well-meaning second rate paramedic want-to-bes.  The few and proud concept is gone because now everyone who takes a short FR or EMT class, calls themselves Medics, which indicates they are highly trained professionals and/or just lets the public think that.  The problem is, the public is smart.  They see Bubba and they say to themselves, maybe these paramedics aren't as professional as I thought they were.  The result is;1) expectations go down 2) good people persue other careers that demand more respect 3) wages go down because the public isn't willing to pay bubba very much money which keeps ems from being a career (need evidence? how about this: not very many older people{35y/o and up} involved in ems as a career) 4) instead of responding to real emergencies, we are bogged down with a lot of B.S. taxi runs for poor and stupid people because after all, the public views us as ambulance drivers 5) this process snowballs out of control and ems consists of nothing but bubbas. 

Emts play a vital role in helping to cover rural areas and provide some type of medical care in places that would otherwise not recieve any and/or assist paramedics but they should not be looked upon by the public as our equals.


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

More bio info if you still think i'm a rookie.  Things i've done while on duty as a paramedic- I've been caught in cross fire before, someone tried to stab me and i had to break her wrist to get the knife away from her, I worked 3 cardiac arrests in one day(all were young with family there and bodies were warm, i had no choice but to work them), i've used the pedi IO 2 times, worked one pedi arrest and one pedi respiratory arrest, have been sexually assaulted (crazy female pts love to touch me in different areas and 350lb female psych pt tried to to rape me and it took 5 nurses to pull her off me)...............more to come


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

Chimpie said:
			
		

> People already don't know the difference between EMT and Paramedic. The only ones that do are the ones in the profession (MFRs, EMTs, Paramedics, and some doctors and nurses).
> 
> Most of the general public has no idea. All they know is that they called 911, an ambulance shows up on scene, they put the pt in the back of the ambulance and they go to the hospital. They know they pt is getting some kind of care on the way to the hospital but they don't know what. And all they really care about is that they get the best care possible.
> 
> They are not concerned with titles, and neither should you. It's the care that you are providing the patient that is most important. Anything else is just wasted air.




Public doesn't know difference? my point exactly, the only difference is i want the public to know there is a difference between paramedic and emt and apparently you don't because you want to call us both Medics, I think if you read my previous post, you might understand it's more than just wasted air.


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

TripperAdam said:
			
		

> Guardian, your "passion" in this issue is that *:censored by Chimpie:* and like someone else mentioned, your source of anger is YOUR issue. Yes, you're ego --- you keep suggesting that every EMT is a redneck, bear drinking bubba.... but I bet back you you were an EMT B you'd be asking for more respect, and you certainly wouldn't appreciate a Paramedic down talking you.
> Someone who is an EMT-B can certainly be as dedicated at their profession, at saving lives. Just because you've gotten extra training doesn't make you "better" than that other person. Sure, you've got a higher scope of practice, way more in-depth knowledge of the human body and how to keep it living... but doesn't make you a better person.
> Pride is useful for putting oneself on a pedestal, if that's what you want - If you feel that you need to cushion yourself from your peers of lower training. It will easily set you up for dissapointment later on, once you start to drive potential friends away.
> Pull your head out, take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
> "What goals and values might I share with an EMT? Why I am in EMS? Why is that EMT-B in EMS? Does it make sense for me to look down on them?"




You know, i'm actually a pretty low key kind of a guy but i must come across as angry on the computer.

I liked it when paramedics talked down to me (not in a mean way but in an authoritative "i know more than you" way) when i was an emt because it gave me something to aspire to be.


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

JJR512 said:
			
		

> What Chimpie has said above was going to be pretty much my point in response to Post #48 above: To the patient, it doesn't matter if we're an EMT-B or -I or -P. They just want to be helped.
> 
> Imagine this little scenario: Patient is on the ground for whatever reason, 911 has been called, an ambulance shows up with an EMT-B and a Paramedic. They walk up to the patient. One says, "Hi, I'm JJR512, I'm an EMT," the other says, "Hi, I'm Guardian, I'm a Paramedic." The patient looks at both and says, "Are you here to help me?" Both say yes. The patient smiles.
> 
> ...




I think i showed in recent posts (today) that it does matter that more than just surpervisors and so-on know the difference


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

Firechic said:
			
		

> As far as the public is concerned, they can refer to me as a "medic" since as a whole they usually are not current with correct terminology (eg: how many people still call flight attendants "airline stewardesses"). As long as they know I am there to take care of them when they call.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




same field, different field, NOT THE POINT, the point is less training to more training because for the most part, when you strip away everything, RNs are trained to a much lesser degree in MEDICINE than doctors in MEDICINE which is the primary similarity used in my argument.  Its not a great analogy but it does the job.


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## RebelRescue (May 15, 2006)

You are trying to marginalize all those basics and first responders out there who have saved THOUSANDS of lives on their own with NO help from a paragod like yourself(myself included both as a FR and a Basic) and that's just not right.You don't want anything taken from you so how about not taking anything away from people who also play a vital role in ems,whether that be in a urban or rural area?

Are there dumba** basics and FRs who ain't worth a dam and make the field as a whole look bad?Yep sure are...........and probably just as many paramedics too.Those types are found in any profession or,for that matter,any work place(and yes I am counting MDs in there).

As for this hero business........well I have been called one on many occasions and quite frankly it made turn red and say "gosh I was just doing my job" or some such idiotic statement.From now on thou I'll be sure to tell anyone who stupidly calls me that "no sorry you must have me confused with those gods among men we call paramedics,I'm just a lowly ***-scratching no-nothing red-neck basic and don't have the credentials to be a hero."


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## ffemt8978 (May 15, 2006)

Guardian, so far, the only thing you've proved is that you believe there should be a clarification between the various levels of EMT's when dealing with the public. 

Take the state where I live for example.  Here, we have the following levels of EMT's:

First Responder
EMT-Basic
EMT-IV
EMT-Airway
EMT-IV/Airway
EMT-ILS
EMT-ILS/Airway
EMT-Paramedic

Gets to be quite a mouthful when you're trying to introduce yourself to the patient. I have no problem with paramedics introducing themselves as paramedics, but I shouldn't have to spend 5 minutes explaining my certification level to my patient because to satisfy your ego on monopolizing the term "medic".

From http://www.webster.com:

The definition of "medic":


> *medic*
> 
> 2 entries found for *medic*.
> To select an entry, click on it.   medic[1,noun] medic[2,noun]     Main Entry:    *2medic*
> ...


Now the definition of "paramedic"


> *paramedic*
> 
> 2 entries found for *paramedic*.
> To select an entry, click on it.   paramedic paramedical     Main Entry:    *para·med·ic*
> ...


So, according to Webster's, we're all medics because we're all engaged in "medical work or study".  Any questions?


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

TripperAdam said:
			
		

> Guardian, your "passion" in this issue is that *:censored by Chimpie:* and like someone else mentioned, your source of anger is YOUR issue. Yes, you're ego --- you keep suggesting that every EMT is a redneck, bear drinking bubba.... but I bet back you you were an EMT B you'd be asking for more respect, and you certainly wouldn't appreciate a Paramedic down talking you.
> Someone who is an EMT-B can certainly be as dedicated at their profession, at saving lives. Just because you've gotten extra training doesn't make you "better" than that other person. Sure, you've got a higher scope of practice, way more in-depth knowledge of the human body and how to keep it living... but doesn't make you a better person.
> Pride is useful for putting oneself on a pedestal, if that's what you want - If you feel that you need to cushion yourself from your peers of lower training. It will easily set you up for dissapointment later on, once you start to drive potential friends away.
> Pull your head out, take a deep breath, and ask yourself:
> "What goals and values might I share with an EMT? Why I am in EMS? Why is that EMT-B in EMS? Does it make sense for me to look down on them?"



I dont mean to suggest that EVERY emt is a redneck bubba, i don' t write nor speak nor think in absolutes (exception, my last comment).  I simply suggested that a disturbingly large number of emts and FRs are bubbas

My extra training does in fact make me a better provider in my ever humble opinion and my point is that in GENERAL, paramedics are a higher class of people (my not so humble opinion).........i should specify what i mean by "class" of people.............class equals better family upbringing, better adapted socially, and more education, summarily a better person and citizen in general.

where i am from, USUALLY people at the top of the social ladder have more friends than anyone else and also where i'm from, being on a pedestal draws a lot of attention and does not isolate.


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Guardian, so far, the only thing you've proved is that you believe there should be a clarification between the various levels of EMT's when dealing with the public.
> 
> Take the state where I live for example.  Here, we have the following levels of EMT's:
> 
> ...





Ok, now it's time to move on to another issue, which is what to do about all the different levels.  This is a real problem that has no easy answer but off hand, this is what i think; either you are a fully trained professional paramedic or you are a partially trained EMT.  That narrows the field to 2.  "Hi, i'm an emt" tells public that your a partially trained better than nothing provider that will have to suffice in a pinch.  "hi, i'm a paramedic" tells the public that your a fully trained professional.  NREMT in all their infinite wisdom started giving paramedics the name emt-paramedics. I say get rid of the emt part.  Jonny and roy were never called emt-paramedics were they?


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## Guardian (May 15, 2006)

RebelRescue said:
			
		

> You are trying to marginalize all those basics and first responders out there who have saved THOUSANDS of lives on their own with NO help from a paragod like yourself(myself included both as a FR and a Basic) and that's just not right.You don't want anything taken from you so how about not taking anything away from people who also play a vital role in ems,whether that be in a urban or rural area?
> 
> Are there dumba** basics and FRs who ain't worth a dam and make the field as a whole look bad?Yep sure are...........and probably just as many paramedics too.Those types are found in any profession or,for that matter,any work place(and yes I am counting MDs in there).
> 
> As for this hero business........well I have been called one on many occasions and quite frankly it made turn red and say "gosh I was just doing my job" or some such idiotic statement.From now on thou I'll be sure to tell anyone who stupidly calls me that "no sorry you must have me confused with those gods among men we call paramedics,I'm just a lowly ***-scratching no-nothing red-neck basic and don't have the credentials to be a hero."



No, you are trying to increase the credibility of emts and FRs by comparing them to paramedics.  Simular situation, only at your level; what if they started calling people who are trained only in bed pan changing EMT-BPC (bed pan changers), and then to make matters worse they went around calling themselves EMTs.  How would you feel? Sure, EMT-BPCs help people in a time of need and have intense jobs, but should they really have your title of EMT, I think not and the same is true for emt vs paramedic. 

true, there are always going to be dumb people in every profession, what we have to do is minimalize the dumb people

hero business, not to sound cocky but we are in the hero business because we are here to go above and beyond to save lives.  I don't go around calling myself a hero, there are a lot of different forms of heros, but we are in the hero business, make no mistake about that (they don't allow us to break all the traffic laws for nothing).


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## Chimpie (May 15, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Public doesn't know difference? my point exactly, the only difference is i want the public to know there is a difference between paramedic and emt and apparently you don't because you want to call us both Medics, I think if you read my previous post, you might understand it's more than just wasted air.


But my point is that they don't care what your title is.  They just want to know that you're there to help and to get them to the hospital alive.  

It's not like they are going to be there, laying in a car, bleeding out of every hole in their body, look at the patch on the shoulder and say, "Go away, you're just an EMT."


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## Chimpie (May 15, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Bio info: 5 years inner city paramedic in city thats always ranked in top ten for violent crime, 3 of which full time 48hrs/week, and the other 2 part time approx 15hrs/week running usually 6-10 calls per/12hrs.


So you've been a paramedic for 5 years?  How long were you an EMT before that?


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## Jon (May 15, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Ok, now it's time to move on to another issue, which is what to do about all the different levels.  This is a real problem that has no easy answer but off hand, this is what i think; either you are a fully trained professional paramedic or you are a partially trained EMT.  That narrows the field to 2.  "Hi, i'm an emt" tells public that your a partially trained better than nothing provider that will have to suffice in a pinch.  "hi, i'm a paramedic" tells the public that your a fully trained professional.  NREMT in all their infinite wisdom started giving paramedics the name emt-paramedics. I say get rid of the emt part.  Jonny and roy were never called emt-paramedics were they?


What makes someone a "Fully-Trained Paramedic" Vs. a "Partially Trained EMT"

I've seen folks with NREMT-P patches who didn't seem able to wipe their own bottoms, and I've seen EMT-B's that are more knowledgeble than their "Paramedic" partner.

As I've said... In Israel - Drivers with Basic First Aid are "Medics" and those with a similar course to the national standard EMT-P course are "Paramedics" That is their system.

In Canada, everone is a "Paramedic"


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## Jon (May 15, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> Public doesn't know difference? my point exactly, the only difference is i want the public to know there is a difference between paramedic and emt and apparently you don't because you want to call us both Medics, I think if you read my previous post, you might understand it's more than just wasted air.


Why does it matter that the public "know there is a difference?" YOU admitted that they can't tell the difference between a FF, CFR, EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P

In my experience, the only way they notice the difference between an EMT and a EMT-P is "why is his uniform different?" And that only works when you have distinctly different uniforms.


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## Ridryder911 (May 15, 2006)

The problem is the public assumption or expectation. The public assumes they are geting the highest educated person. 

The same is true whenever I meet a person who introduces themself as a "nurse"... this is usually a CNA or someone whon is a CMA, which is totally dfferent than one with a degree, and RN licensure. 

Medic term is synomous with of just that... medic. EMT or Paramedic. However when one introduces themselves as a Paramedic, and they are not.. I do become very irritated. This is false representation and misleading the patient and public, as well in my state illegal. 

Yes, we have way too many levels of EMT and I do agree with the removal of the EMT preceding the title Paramedic. Hopefully, this will change with time and education levels. There are committees attempting actually working on this and with the introduction of a possibility of new license, national certification of CCP Critical Care Paramedic (not to be confused with Maryland's CCEMT/P class; which is now really now called critical care emergency transport program). Please notice it is no EMT is mentioned in above new title. 

There is nothing "bad or wrong" with the EMT or its level. However; we are quite aware of many trying to leave the persona that they are Paramedics, which is wrong to the patient and to the system. 

Be safe,
R/r 911


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## ffemt8978 (May 15, 2006)

Rid,

I agree with everything you said.  Nobody here was saying that an EMT should introduce hmself as a paramedic when he's not one.

About your first point, the public's expectations and presumptions.  Even where I live, the public expects that everytime they call for an ambulance, they're going to get the Johnny and Roy paramedics.  Why?  Because that's all they've ever seen on TV (Emergency, Rescue 911, Third Watch, ER, etc....).  None of these shows differentiate between the levels of EMS because they don't want to bore their viewing audience with details.

The public watches these shows and doesn't realize that there's a difference, so they assume we're just like what they've seen on TV.  For example, a couple of years ago, we had a bad MVA (2 car head on with fatailies).  I get out of the front passenger seat of the ambulance in full bunker gear and a "doctor" on scene comes up to me.  He says, "Are you a Medic?"  I answered, "Yes, I am."  Notice that I never identified myself as a paramedic.  He then directed me towards a patient that had already been extricated from the vehicle by bystanders.

According to some people, when asked if I was a medic, I should have responded, "No, I'm not a medic.  That title is reserved for those with superior education and larger egos.  I'm a lowly redneck EMT and my training consists of nothing more than glorified first aid."

I'm curious though, and in all seriousness ask this question.  What gives paramedics the right to be called "medics" to the exclusion of everyone else?


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## Jon (May 15, 2006)

Ridryder911 said:
			
		

> The problem is the public assumption or expectation. The public assumes they are geting the highest educated person.
> 
> The same is true whenever I meet a person who introduces themself as a "nurse"... this is usually a CNA or someone whon is a CMA, which is totally dfferent than one with a degree, and RN licensure.


You've seen that too? I used to give the CNA's at the local VA SNF a really hard time over that.





			
				Ridryder911 said:
			
		

> Medic term is synomous with of just that... medic. EMT or Paramedic. However when one introduces themselves as a Paramedic, and they are not.. I do become very irritated. This is false representation and misleading the patient and public, as well in my state illegal.


Great point.



			
				ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> According to some people, when asked if I was a medic, I should have responded, "No, I'm not a medic. That title is reserved for those with superior education and larger egos. I'm a lowly redneck EMT and my training consists of nothing more than glorified first aid."


You are my hero! That sums up this argument in a nutshell.

Oh... I think this is the longest thread we have had since SHP was aroud


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

Chimpie said:
			
		

> But my point is that they don't care what your title is.  They just want to know that you're there to help and to get them to the hospital alive.
> 
> It's not like they are going to be there, laying in a car, bleeding out of every hole in their body, look at the patch on the shoulder and say, "Go away, you're just an EMT."





They don't care now because they don't know any better.  I believe they would care if they knew the difference.  If i've got kidney stones, i want a medic with pn med. If i had CP, i would want 12-lead and drugs.  If i were bleeding out of every hole in my body, i want a paramedic and it would be nice to know who the paramedics are.  I believe the public would feel the same way if we stopped lying to them.


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

Chimpie said:
			
		

> So you've been a paramedic for 5 years?  How long were you an EMT before that?



2 years..........


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> What makes someone a "Fully-Trained Paramedic" Vs. a "Partially Trained EMT"
> 
> I've seen folks with NREMT-P patches who didn't seem able to wipe their own bottoms, and I've seen EMT-B's that are more knowledgeble than their "Paramedic" partner.
> 
> ...




By fully trained, someone has passed NR-Paramedic exam.  Anything else is only partially trained.


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> Why does it matter that the public "know there is a difference?" YOU admitted that they can't tell the difference between a FF, CFR, EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-P
> 
> In my experience, the only way they notice the difference between an EMT and a EMT-P is "why is his uniform different?" And that only works when you have distinctly different uniforms.



please go back and read my really long earlier post, there i discribe why it matters but here is the short version.  Public perception of ems is everything and will make or break us.


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

Ridryder911 said:
			
		

> The problem is the public assumption or expectation. The public assumes they are geting the highest educated person.
> 
> The same is true whenever I meet a person who introduces themself as a "nurse"... this is usually a CNA or someone whon is a CMA, which is totally dfferent than one with a degree, and RN licensure.
> 
> ...




I agree with everything you wrote here.  People know enough to differentiate RN vs CNA.  People do not know enough to differentiate EMT vs Paramedic.  How would you feel if everyone thought Shanikwa the CNA had the same job as you Rid.  I bet you would say "darn, i don't want them mistaking my critical care passion with shanikwa's bed pan service.  Well thats how i feel when people mistake my job for bubba's and more importantly our public image is damaged.


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> Rid,
> 
> I agree with everything you said.  Nobody here was saying that an EMT should introduce hmself as a paramedic when he's not one.
> 
> ...




The public thinks medic is the same as paramedic.  Therefore when a FR calls him/herself a medic, he/she is lying to the public.  The public doesn't know the difference between emt-ABCDEFG and paramedic and by calling us both medics will only make this problem worse and do further damage to public perceptions.  

The doctor should have never used the term medic in the first place.  He used this incorrect lazy bigot term because we allowed him to.  Medic should only be used in its broadest dictionary context,

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=medic

As far as clarifying "No, I not a medic..." I'm all for it, because people should know the truth.

Nothing gives paramedics the right to be called medics exclusively and i haven't once said that they do have this right.


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## ffemt8978 (May 16, 2006)

Guardian said:
			
		

> The public thinks medic is the same as paramedic. Therefore when a FR calls him/herself a medic, he/she is lying to the public. The public doesn't know the difference between emt-ABCDEFG and paramedic and by calling us both medics will only make this problem worse and do further damage to public perceptions.
> 
> The doctor should have never used the term medic in the first place. He used this incorrect lazy bigot term because we allowed him to. Medic should only be used in its broadest dictionary context,
> 
> ...



I have no problem clarifying my role as an EMT when I have time, usually during the transport in the back of the ambulance.  Hell, I have no problem explaining the difference to the patient, time permitting.  I do have a problem trying to explain the difference when I first introduce myself and am trying to get the scene under control.  I believe that if you go back and read MMiz's original question, it pertained to the initial introduction and not further along in the treatment process.

And yes, public perception is a huge problem in EMS.  We should be trying to educate the public and get them involved instead of debating who should be called what because we're concerned about how we perceive the public's perception of us.


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## Guardian (May 16, 2006)

ffemt8978 said:
			
		

> I have no problem clarifying my role as an EMT when I have time, usually during the transport in the back of the ambulance.  Hell, I have no problem explaining the difference to the patient, time permitting.  I do have a problem trying to explain the difference when I first introduce myself and am trying to get the scene under control.  I believe that if you go back and read MMiz's original question, it pertained to the initial introduction and not further along in the treatment process.
> 
> And yes, public perception is a huge problem in EMS.  We should be trying to educate the public and get them involved instead of debating who should be called what because we're concerned about how we perceive the public's perception of us.




MMiz's originial post said they wanted to call us all "Medics"  In my world, introduction should be either emt or paramedic.  Then in my world, we shouldn't have to explain further the different levels because the public will already understand the difference between emt and paramedic even if its as simple as knowing that emt is a lesser trained ems worker than paramedic.  In my world, ems gets more respect and people are not lied to.  I will admit, it's hard educating the public on anything much less boring details about our job but i do think its important.  When you wrote we should be educating the public, thats exactly what i'm trying to do rather than dumb it down and call every ems'er a medic.

Note: when i said earlier that you should clarify to public you're not a paramedic, i was just being facetious, sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## Tactical Medic (May 16, 2006)

Hey all, I'm a Paramedic but never mind being called EMT, Medic, Paramedic, or Doc.  I think the term medic most laypeople would find to be more easer to use/understand especially in an emergency.  I don't mind sharing my title with EMTs I think its a great idea especially since the EMTs I have the honor to work with do most of the work- they spike my IVs and prep a kit for me, do EKGs and 12 leads, and all I have to say is a medication or that I will ET someone and they have the equipment ready for me.  Once again Medic is a great term and will use it for now on with my own coworkers :beerchug:


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## disassociative (May 21, 2006)

*...*

Well, when I hear Medic and Paramedic; I think of the difference between a lawyer and a paralegal. For instance; on LifeFlight, we refer to our Physicians as the Flight Medics and the EMT-P's as Paramedics.

I have always associated medic with physician.

Most of the time; I just use the generalization; EMS. However, on a scene
I want to know exactly what everyone is, because if I have a patient that
needs an ET tube, I want to know if the guy next to me is an EMT-B or a Paramedic.


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## Guardian (May 22, 2006)

disassociative said:
			
		

> Well, when I hear Medic and Paramedic; I think of the difference between a lawyer and a paralegal. For instance; on LifeFlight, we refer to our Physicians as the Flight Medics and the EMT-P's as Paramedics.
> 
> I have always associated medic with physician.
> 
> ...






good point..........


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## Jon (May 22, 2006)

That is a unique point from your service - at the "Large, national EMS Co" I work part-time at we have an ED Attending who is our command doc...(http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=2585) he is "Doc-1" or Medical Command when we do REALLY large events. He is an attending at a large teaching hospital, so we usually have a senior resident with us as "Doc-2" at the huge events, or when he isn't availible (deployed with FEMA US&R PA TF-1)


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## MMiz (May 23, 2006)

I posted a few years ago about the time a guy had an MI on an airplane, and I offered my services.

I went to the back of the airplane and said "Hi, my name is Matt, and I'm an EMT."  No one knew what an EMT was, even after I said it's an "Emergency Medical Technician".  I then said "I'm a medic," and they were happy.  When an ER nurse walked back and offered her services, I said I was an "EMT-Basic" and she immediately understood.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be different levels of EMS.  I 100% approve of the different levels.  What I'm saying is *for public purposes, and for the general image of EMS, we should push the idea of "Medic" as the standard term*.  In a clinical setting or in the field I'm an EMT-Basic or "Basic," but to the public, I'm a _Medic.

_Is that fair?


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## Tactical Medic (May 25, 2006)

MMiz said:
			
		

> I posted a few years ago about the time a guy had an MI on an airplane, and I offered my services.
> 
> I went to the back of the airplane and said "Hi, my name is Matt, and I'm an EMT."  No one knew what an EMT was, even after I said it's an "Emergency Medical Technician".  I then said "I'm a medic," and they were happy.  When an ER nurse walked back and offered her services, I said I was an "EMT-Basic" and she immediately understood.
> 
> ...



Yes thats fair, BTW disassociative, I will never call a Doctor "medic" I don't know which "lifeflight" you work on but our local "flight medic" is a PARAMEDIC... BTW they also have "flight nurse" and they are known as NURSE....

But for the layperson I think the term "medic" should be used, I mean if you (the prehospital professional) want to know what the other guy's qualifications are simple look at his/her shoulder :wacko: 

I have no problems calling my EMTs "medic" as I have said before I have TOTAL trust in them, I have to since sometimes I'm the lone paramedic and can't do 4 things at once.  

We should lobby for this, I mean its used in the news, movies, and books.  Every other American calls us "medics" and they don't know about differences, thats OK because we do...


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## MMiz (May 26, 2006)

I actually found out about the "Medic" campaign by visiting the American Ambulance Association's website.  I think I even posted the cheesy videos


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## Jon (May 26, 2006)

OMG... this isn't DEAD yet?



JK, everyone!


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## Tactical Medic (May 27, 2006)

MedicStudentJon said:
			
		

> OMG... this isn't DEAD yet?
> 
> 
> 
> JK, everyone!



Back from the dead? would this be considered a pre-hospital save :lol: :lol:


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## disassociative (May 27, 2006)

*...*

Oh, as far as associating medic with physician; that is my personal account. As far as how things are done with LifeFlight; they are referred to as "Flight Physicians".

Here is a small explanation of why I associate medic with physician


From Dictionary.com
----------------------------------------------
Para - Subsidiary; assistant:

medic -    
   1. A member of a military medical corps.
   2. A physician or surgeon.
   3. A medical student or intern.

Paramedic - Assistant to a Medic;


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## Glorified (Jun 2, 2007)

I think that EMS has too many certification levels. This may offend MFR's and Intermediates, but I think there should just be the EMT-B and Paramedic. I also think EMT should be removed from the EMT-P title.  It's not hard for a MFR to become an EMT-B, and intermediates could get paramedic training.   It's too hard for the public to remember more than 2 terms, imho. We should continue to educate the public.  It would be much easier to teach the public two terms anyways. We don't need to dumb down the way we identify ourselves to the public. We are looking for a general term to describe ourselves, when we should be re-thinking our education.  

To a somewhat healthy patient.

"Hi, I'm Joe and I'm an EMT this is my partner, Tom.  He's a Paramedic." 

Pt: "What's the difference?
Me: "He has more training than I do."

To an emergent patient

Me the EMT-B: "Hi, my name is Joe, I'm here to help you."
Tom, my imaginary paramedic partner: "Hi, my name is Tom. I'm here to help you."

To the bystanders of an emergenct scene
Me: Hi, I'm Joe. I'm an EMT"
Them: "huh?" 
Me: "I have training in emergency care, now get outta my way!"


EMT-B does not take that long, and is only about 70 hours longer than a MFR course.  With no intermediate level, those who want to be a paramedic would really have to dedicate themselves.  

How hard is it gonna be after 10 years and over a million emergencies, for the public to recognize two terms. I know this will take time.  People at my restaurant job still think I am training to be an ambulance driver for God's sake.  I just think I confused them explaining all the different levels and they revert to calling what I am studying "ambulance driver." 

I am new to EMS, and this is just my opinion. Maybe it's too radical. Take it or leave it.


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## Chimpie (Jun 2, 2007)

Before you, or anyone/everyone, goes out on a rampage to make sure that everyone knows the difference between Basic/Inter/Medic, ask yourself why are you doing it?

Is it because your friends/co-workers think you're going to be an ambulance driver?  Or is it because you want to change how your local communities get emergency medical treatment?

There are a few on here that want everyone to know the difference because they put themselves through the extra training and they want to be recognized for it.  Most don't.  But you have to remember the patient.  They know when the white box with flashing lights is there it's because they are going to help them. 

If I was a commander in the field I would never want my guys saying what their title was, or to give doubt to the patient that one has more training than the other.   That's not for the patient to know/decide.  It's up to the team on the rig to make the decision on who is going to care for the patient.


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## cw15321 (Jun 6, 2007)

Hey, when I turn up on scene I usually introduce myself from the fire depatment as everyone knows who they are, and there are no questions.  Shame, as I would think (before getting into this EMT thing)what has putting water on hot stuff to do with my chest pains.........


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## Summit (Jun 6, 2007)

Well I'd like them to differentiate, but better to have everyone called "medics" than everyone called "ambulance drivers."


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 6, 2007)

The next time you don't think it matters, the next time a patient calls a female physician ... nurse, see what the response is. 

Patients legally are supposed to know the level and whom is working on them. It does matter more than one realizes, especially if there is potential trouble afterwards. 

Most of the time, I introduce myself as my name then title both RN and Paramedic, the reason is for some more at ease talking on a personal issue on some things. I as well find a more receptive attention from ER staff, and attitude changes in nursing home staff. 

R/r 911


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## VentMedic (Jun 6, 2007)

Ridryder911 said:


> Patients legally are supposed to know the level and whom is working on them. It does matter more than one realizes, especially if there is potential trouble afterwards.
> 
> R/r 911



Is there a quiz later the patients can take to make sure they have the titles right? Multiple choice or matching?

Yes, identifying yourself with name and title is fundamental and required as part of the patient care process. But, healthcare is complicated enough for the elderly, sick and confused without making them responsible for getting all of our titles correct. Yes, I correct them when appropriate. But, to make an issue holding the public responsible for knowing the difference in our job descriptions shows a pettiness amongst ourselves that negates the good work we do.  The typical patient will see an average of 20 different healthcare providers during their first 12 hours after calling an ambulance.  Should the patient be given a pen and paper to take notes or offered a daily summary to keep the players staight?  

Multiple titles are nice.  But, what is the "legal" title you are working under at that moment in time for that employer and medical director?

Most female doctors are secure enough in their profession to laugh off or politelly correct the "nurse" thing because it does happen frequently. Likewise, male nurses have to handle at their stereotypes.  As far as fire service paramedics, the public may see them in turnout gear one AND carrying stethoscope. Confusing?   Every geographical area and municipal service may have a different job description and hat for people with similar titles to wear. 

I'm sure there are alot of professions out there that would like to be called and acknowledged appropriately. Almost every health care profession has entry level, intermediate level and advanced levels of training/education and titles. However, it is rare that they spend time talking about what the public thinks of them. Usually they are concerned for issues that affect them as a whole or the patient. Healthcare is about the patient.  Issues of egos concerning titles show more of a selfishness for one's self then concern for the job to be done or the patient.


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## TKO (Jun 6, 2007)

Just to put in my $0.02, I think that it is important to clarify the differences in levels as well.  But I think everyone should also be given respect and have respect for all the levels.

One thing I didn't see, is the mention of EMS as a blanket term.  O/A some of you are saying that EMT causes confusion.  However, I never announce myself as a paramedic because it sounds funny.  I prefer to announce myself and crew as "EMS" when I come on scene.  I think almost everyone knows that means EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, implying various levels.

If someone were to want clarification from that, I would say, "I am a PCP" but I don't feel the need to have a trumpet guy blow his horn and shout this to everyone.  Thus it is my opinion that a good blanket term for everyone should be "EMS".  Beats ambulance or whatever else.  And you can keep your titles this way too.

Anyone see a problem with that?

That being said, this should apply to outside agencies too.  Mine Rescue Services or any job site medical providers (as they are starting to be licensed) should have their own designation as well.  For example, a PCP working for an oil company should be something like OMP (Occupation Medical Providers) and then his/her level of PCP.  This just being an example.

Anyone working in an oil field rig shouldn't be upset because they aren't designated as EMS despite having graduated from the same schools.  If you want to be designated as EMS, then you should be working for EMS.  Same to be said of OFA/FR/EMT/paramedics.  I think it is fair to have distinction between the titles because after you've attained the next level, you deserve the credit for what you have earned.  And you should be proud of what you have.

I worked with a civilian stretcher service for about 6 months and the employees were first aiders only.  Many of them had stories where they found themselves in a first aid situation and they would introduce themselves as paramedics.  I found that to be very inappropriate.  What if this person was in need of real medical  attention and being misled by their approach put themselves into their care?  They aren't qualified to understand how serious the person's condition may be (pretend in this instance that it is a medical call) and they may delay this person from seeking help from proper channels.  It isn't hard to visualize this sort of problem.

I'd like to say that I am a doctor, but I am not.  But that doesn't matter to me since I am very proud of my level and all that I have achieved.  And when I want more, I will go on and earn more with more education and training.

In conclusion, a blanket term should just be "EMS" for the public to use; let them learn about the levels on their own time.  Outside care agencies should find their own blanket terms so as to maintain their own image.  And levels aren't a bad thing, people should have more pride in what they are.


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## TKO (Jun 6, 2007)

that was a mouthful!  I only wanted to suggest that EMS is all we need.  We just need to start using it more often.

There are Police Services, Fire & Rescue Services, and we are Emergency Medical Services.  If the news agencies were to report on us using EMS instead of titles, things would be easier.  

_"Two vehicles were involved in a collision today.  Police, Fire and EMS  worked to secure the scene and help the survivors."_  Notice that there is no need to identify EMT-Bs from Paramedics?  Nobody needs to know that one of the cops was a Lieutenant and the others a Sheriff and two constables or whatever.  They just say police and that works.

We've been EMS for a long time, so why do we need to change that?  Trying to do so just shows that we need to get our act together and start working more professionally.  Only unprofessional people squabble endlessly about the importance of their titles, if you've ever noticed.


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 6, 2007)

Personally, it does not matter what they call me as long as it is not profanity, then yet I have been called worse. Vent I am sure after being a health care worker for sometime your comfortable, yet I am sure you would be the first to correct someone that you were not housekeeping if your were confused to be one. 

No, there is not a test, but many hospitals have attempted to reduce confusion. Especially since nearly everyone wears scrubs. I know of several that has placards in the patient rooms identifying color of scrubs to match license level or identification... i.e nurse tech, RN, other allied health care. Yes, there are now patients that are becoming more alert on whom and what are taking care of them. I have had patients ask not to be treated by certain levels of caregivers. 

Yes, most female physicians are comfortable, because they have learned to be so, but I have as of yet have not seen them immediately correct the patient quickly and reinforce their title in discussion, in contrast where many male physicians prefer to be called by their first name. In which, I don't blame them. Yes, as a male I am assumed to be the physician, most of the time. I do correct them and usually after the tenth time finally get tired of doing so. Similar to P.A.'s situation, no matter how many times they attempt to correct the situation. 

In my state, I am legally bound to have my RN title displayed, no matter what department, be it psych, ER, critical care transport, etc. They take that real seriously, much more than in EMS where anything goes. 

Nurses take their title and professional image serious. Maybe if EMS would do so, our titles would be more recognizable (as long as we keep the number down). For discussion : http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2668327

R/r 911


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## Glorified (Jun 6, 2007)

I like the EMS idea. That video was just so.......lame......

Sorry, it just sounded stupid, and I felt embarassed after I watched it.  TKO makes a good point.  Saying, "EMS," is both informative, true, and not confusing at all.


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## VentMedic (Jun 6, 2007)

TKO said:


> We've been EMS for a long time, so why do we need to change that?  Trying to do so just shows that we need to get our act together and start working more professionally.  Only unprofessional people squabble endlessly about the importance of their titles, if you've ever noticed.



Now that was well stated!

And yes Rid, in the hospital I have been called a housekeeper, though I prefer environmental technician, when mopping up after one of my machines. I am also called a "dietary aide"(prefer food services technician) when I bring my patients their coffee while serving up a nebulizer just before they go out for their morning cigarette. Of course, if I didn't correct the patients on my real title and that I am not an environmental or food service technician, I would be doing these two professions a disservice.


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## Guardian (Jun 6, 2007)

Here are some facts to get us back on track.  People know the difference between housekeeping and RT.  People know the difference between RN and LPN.  People do not know the difference between EMT and Paramedic.  Is it really to hard to learn the difference between these two?…well, it is now with all the wannabe paramedics (emt-abcdefg) but as soon as we do away with them it won’t be.  People should be aware of the services provided to them.  Sure, not every senile old fart will know the difference, but most people should.  If you want respect and you want your profession to grow, your capabilities should be clearly defined and understood by your patients.

I think the idea of people actually knowing what they're getting scares the heck out of some people on this forum.  Am I right about this?  Are you afraid the public might demand more if they knew the difference in education and capabilities?


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## VentMedic (Jun 6, 2007)

Let's look at this from a patient's perspective. First, this is pre-hospital and an emergency situation. Usually, people see EMS every day on the streets so they know it's there. They've seen enough TV to know about some of our on scene heroics. However, most people don't study up on medical terminology prior to an accident or heart attack. If someone has just had a major accident, many other things are going through their mind; loved ones, pain, panic, disability, unemployment, car totaled, loss of income, financial distress, lawsuit etc.  They just want to know someone is there to help. They don't want your resume or a long speech about how many more skills you can do than the other people arouond you. Most people hope never to need defibrillating or any other type of emergency service on the street. They hope you are qualified enough to keep them alive to get them to a hospital. You could have the longest title at scene behind your name, but may not be able to gain the confidence of the patient in your care.  Identifying yourself, your title (or as part of the EMS team) and that you are there for THEM should be a good start to the short and fast-paced time you will have with them.  The quality conversation should be about the patient. Maybe if people had time they might study up on the EMS services around them and try to have an accident only in areas with  "certain" EMS providers.  

Most people don't even know how many different specialties there are among doctors...until they need one.  

The patient may remember you every time they see an ambulance. They may not remember your name or title. They may just remember a caring professional who helped them when they needed it.


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## Guardian (Jun 7, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> Let's look at this from a patient's perspective. First, this is pre-hospital and an emergency situation. Usually, people see EMS every day on the streets so they know it's there. They've seen enough TV to know about some of our on scene heroics. However, most people don't study up on medical terminology prior to an accident or heart attack. If someone has just had a major accident, many other things are going through their mind; loved ones, pain, panic, disability, unemployment, car totaled, loss of income, financial distress, lawsuit etc.  They just want to know someone is there to help. They don't want your resume or a long speech about how many more skills you can do than the other people arouond you. Most people hope never to need defibrillating or any other type of emergency service on the street. They hope you are qualified enough to keep them alive to get them to a hospital. You could have the longest title at scene behind your name, but may not be able to gain the confidence of the patient in your care.  Identifying yourself, your title (or as part of the EMS team) and that you are there for THEM should be a good start to the short and fast-paced time you will have with them.  The quality conversation should be about the patient. Maybe if people had time they might study up on the EMS services around them and try to have an accident only in areas with  "certain" EMS providers.
> 
> Most people don't even know how many different specialties there are among doctors...until they need one.
> 
> The patient may remember you every time they see an ambulance. They may not remember your name or title. They may just remember a caring professional who helped them when they needed it.





I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my post and maybe it doesn't.  I do have some questions for you though; do you think people should know the difference between a BLS staffed ambulance and an ALS ambulance?  Do you think people should have any say over the type of care they receive?  Don't jump right to a heart pounding emergency scene, that has no relevance here.  Instead, consider beforehand when people as a whole are deciding what type of 911 system to put into place.  Also, do you think they would use more LPNs instead of RNs in emergency departments if people didn't know the difference?  I think so.  I think it's important to educate the people so they know what they're getting when they call 911.  It appears you disagree with me, am I wrong?


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## TKO (Jun 7, 2007)

Why do you hate all EMT-B's so much?  It sounds like you have a reasonably justified argument against the B's in your area, but you have to know there are better than that elsewhere.  Or does this bother you because you were an ineffective, incompetent B and now that you feel akin to nurses and doctors that you wish to distance yourself from that past?

Whether you like it or not, you are EMS and not ER.  You should embrace the B's who work around you and either help them to improve or, failing that, take action to get their sh*t sorted out.  We are all doing the best that we can with what we have.  You definitely shouldn't blame B's for the limitations of their license.

And you have your distinction on-scene: you are ALS and the B's are BLS.  You can charge in there and take control of the scene, and the patients can see the redirection of power.  And I'm sorry to say it, but they all see it going straight to your head and probably think you are a braying jackass.

If you re-read your posts, you can see that you refer to nearly everyone, including the patients you rally for, nasty condescending names.  IF that is not your intention, you should apologize for that.  Otherwise, you should realize that studying pre-med doesn't make you better than the rest of us in EMS.


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## TKO (Jun 7, 2007)

Guardian said:


> I think it's important to educate the people so they know what they're getting when they call 911.  It appears you disagree with me, am I wrong?



I think I get what you are saying, but be aware that there isn't money enough to require everyone to be paramedics.  Many communities require first responders or B's when available because ALS isn't available.  If the general public knew that, they'd lose confidence in the system (which is a struggle for us to maintain as it is).  Imagine if every dispatcher had callers demanding ALS?  That's what would happen.  I sure as hell want the highest level of care available for my loved ones and I respect and understand the system.

Besides, since when does public education ever accomplish anything?  If you want the public to see your way you are going to need the help of a popular tv show.  Create an accurate and edgy tv series about EMS and demonstrate the differences, and people will begin to understand.  Make an informative brochure and people will throw it in the trash.


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## Guardian (Jun 7, 2007)

TKO...1) All of your perceptions of me are wrong.  2) You bring up an interesting point.  Maybe we can't fund the huge salaries of paramedics (I'm laughing as I write this), it's not like we are the richest country in the world or anything.  Maybe we shouldn't worry about the funding, this is what politicians are for.  We should worry about giving people the best care possible and letting them decide what that is.  And maybe losing confidence in our system is a good thing, then something would be done to improve it.


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## VentMedic (Jun 7, 2007)

I believe EMS has a lot of internal housekeeping chores before we put ourselves up for public scrutiny intentionally. If we can not form a respect for our own then how do you expect public approval? People do have a pretty high regard for EMS services as a whole.  Some form of EMS makes headlines, both good and bad, almost everyday.  

Many areas of the country have access to ALS EMS services. Many areas do not for reasons that are beyond their control.  Their tax base and political machine may not support it.  Making people feel like "have nots" is not the answer.  Many people are very comfortable with their local BLS services. Sometimes technology is great. Sometimes it hinders. Sometimes an experienced Basic is better then an over confident (or not) and inexperienced (or experienced) Paramedic.  

Yes, there are people who are medical needs patients who must choose to live by the services available. Most of us live where our heart and dreams take us. We all hope to stay healthy and accident free. Possibly, people might want state of art trauma systems with all ALS units. However, if you ever look at the voting outcomes for the taxes funding these systems in public election, you will find them to be very close. 

Yes patients do want the most qualified person for the job. I believe in the team approach. That is why I liked TKO's posts.  The EMS team is here for the patient. Everybody has a role.   

Many hospital systems still view the LPN as a valued member of the healthcare team.


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## Guardian (Jun 7, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> I believe EMS has a lot of internal housekeeping chores before we put ourselves up for public scrutiny intentionally.



Ok, I'm glad you're honest enough to admit wanting to keep people in the dark about the services we provide.  I don't agree with this at all but I'm glad we can now at least understand each others point of view better.


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## TKO (Jun 7, 2007)

Guardian said:


> TKO...1) All of your perceptions of me are wrong.



If this is true, consider that my perceptions are drawn from the previous statements and opinions that you have posted in this thread, and one can only conclude that you have misrepresented yourself.



> Maybe we can't fund the huge salaries of paramedics (I'm laughing as I write this)



Many rural locations won't fund a 24 hour ALS service when BLS can reach the local clinic within 5 minutes and receive enhanced care from RNs.  Fire Rescue is required for extrication for highway MVAs.  That's just more money needed and it has to come out of someone's budget.

ALS is critical in large centers where time from scene to hospital is too great to make that coverage effectively.  ALS would be better for everyone, but if you have to balance a tight, small budget and you are already staffing RNs, what are you going to do?  You are going to hire EMT-Bs and you will want to keep their skills limited to prevent them from being due a larger salary.

We all want better medical coverage, but nobody is willing to pay for it.  And I don't support this either but I do try to make the most of it; calling the people that work under me idiots won't improve the system.


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## BossyCow (Jun 7, 2007)

Ya know, it would be wonderful if everyone understood all the details about every profession and what makes them all special.  I mean, when I call up the computer guy because he has an ad in the paper and my computer just froze up, sure, it's nice to read that he has an A+ certification but I really don't care.  

I worked in a non patient care department in several different hospitals and was called 'Nurse' more times than I can count even though I didn't wear scrubs and my name tag said "Materials Managment". 

I just think that our perception of the publics 'need to know' the level of care supposes that they understand there are levels.  They don't as a rule.  They don't care if they are treated by a Physician's Assistant, Nurse Practitioner or Board Certified Emergency Physician, they just want the broken bone set, the belly pain to stop and the stitches in their kids forehead.  

I volunteer with a BLS agency.  I've been called a lot of different things in the back of the rig.  Some printable.  If there's time, I explain the difference between a paramedic and a Basic to the patient but I doubt many of them retain that information. 

Maybe its because EMS in my area is not competitive.  It's not a matter of this agency has ALS and this is only BLS.  We all work together, civic, private, paid and volly with mutual aid in the areas where one has and the other has not.


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## mfrjason (Jun 7, 2007)

I feel that they should come up with one title for everyone and keep it that way cuz like you said matt,its getting too confusing for the public to know what to call us.


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 7, 2007)

The title is not is what concerning me as much as the public perceiving that they have Paramedics, when they really don't. Even as ABC news pointed out that many are shocked that they (public) actually do not have responders categorized and not able to perform ALS. 

Many are comfortable with their BLS, because they assume they have ALS, as majority of U.S. does. Since ALS has been presented for over thirty years on television, many assume that U.S. would have this as the norm.. not realizing, we (EMS providers) rather prefer to keep things antiquated. Yes, it is a nicely hidden image, we present.  

The majority of clarification of titles are from those that did not "go" that extra mile and pursued further education from those that did not. Sure, saying were EMS is easy, it is just as easy to say we're allied health care. It maybe semantics to some, especially when they cannot officially state they are not Paramedics. Would the opinion be the same, if it to say First-Responders were allowed to call themselves EMT's? I am sure the attitude would be different, as it should be. 

I am not discussing major promotions, especially when in EMS we have no public relations on a national level. 

Sorry, I don't buy in the ..."I can't do it".. again it all depends on your priorities. Just like any other profession, one can get a student loan, grants, work extra shifts, etc. to attend school. Still the same old lame excuses, that EMS should be considered any different than any other profession, I ask why? 

What I usually see, is that is not that big of deal, especially from those that cannot use the official Paramedic title. This is similar to when I hear .."I am a nurse".. I can almost assure they are either am LPN, CMA. aide, etc and not a RN, even though they want the public to assume they are RN's. Remember, all titles are always compared with the highest level, which the public is more familiar with. 

That is why more and more interest is in removing the title of EMT in Paramedic. For many reasons, legality as the medic becomes more a practitioner than technician, as well many now no longer ever work as an EMT prior to becoming Paramedic. This idea is becoming more and more popular in areas requiring degree levels. 

R/r 911


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## mfrjason (Jun 7, 2007)

Even though im mfr and people ask me what my license level is I just tell them im an emt cuz of the fact that the public knows what an emt is more than they know what an mfr is cuz it seems when people here that your an mfr you have to explain to them what that is. When they hear mfr they think firefighter,especially these days since most services are converting to ALS status and getting away from BLS.


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## beckoncall62 (Jul 9, 2007)

*EMS No Place For Enlarged Egos*

I'm also a tad late-but what the heck? Usually people with huge egos tend to be trying to compensate for something they lack-or have very little of. One of my instructors just recently told me (he is a retired paramedic) that he sees just as many of the wrong kind of people becoming paramedics as some of the paramedics feel about EMT-B's. I've participated in a couple other EMS forums-one which was so full of ego-maniacs there was barely room to breathe. They run rampant throughout the posts, and not "moderated" by the so-called moderators-they bash and trash an EMT that has the nerve to share their opinion. As relatively new to EMS, it was extremely discouraging. All that negativity-and very little positive feed-back of any kind. I've been on here for about 3 hrs now reading posts all over this forum. I was very surprised-and pleased-how differently this forum is run. 
A few things about me and my commitment to my department and what I do as an EMT-B:
1. I may be new to EMS-but I'm not new to emergency response and life experience. That is what's led me here.
2. I am not nieve (however you spell it) or clueless enough to look at being an EMT as a "hobby" even though I've been lumped into that category by others.
3. I know that we never stop learning-there is ALWAYS more to learn.
4. I've lived and worked in both city and rural settings-and learned enough to know there are major differences.
5. I am a member of a rural fire and rescue department and am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to learn from some of the best EMS personnel-yes the best can even be found out in the toolies. I feel more than qualified to make that judgment, because not only have I worked side by side with them-I've also seen them from the perspective of being the patient. 










MMiz said:


> I'm a bit late to the fun, but I can't help but jump in.  My BS-o-meter is ringing off the charts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Guardian (Jul 9, 2007)

There’s an old saying that goes “only the very rich understand the difference between themselves and the poor and only the truly brilliant understand the difference between themselves and the dumb.”  I love that old saying and I think it might apply here.  I have acknowledged a difference between myself and lesser educated EMS providers.  I have been demonized for this in a pathetic attempt to debate another issue.  Anyone remember that issue?  I think it had something to do with the use of the word “medic.”

You can psychoanalyze me all you want.  I don’t care about your ignorant preconceived notions.  If anything, I’m proud to be pegged as an “ego-maniac.”  Our country was built by “ego-maniacs.”  Want proof?  Study early American politics.  Those guys were ruthless.  Look at contemporary intellectuals such as Charles Murray, Sam Huntington, and Thomas Sowell.  All of these men have been accused of being egomaniacal a-holes.  Do you think they care?

I’m not sorry that I don’t measure up to your idea of what a paramedic should be.  This is because I know my mindset is akin to the great intellectual leaders of the past and future.  Not the meek, meager, and mediocre mindset of complacent individuals who unwittingly halt progress.


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## Arkymedic (Aug 14, 2007)

MMiz said:


> For a couple years now, since 9/11, there has been an effort to coin the term "Medic" for everyone working in EMS.
> 
> The reasoning is that there are far too many titles, many outdated, and they don't reflect the skill and responsibility of the job.
> 
> ...



I know several services that the EMTs polo or badge (depending on service) say Medic and the Paramedics say Paramedic. I don't really agree with this as medic is a professional title that was bestowed upon military healthcare providers first which is why we call ourselves Paramedics. Not trying to be an ******* or hung up on myself or anything but I feel that I busted my *** for two years to earn that title and after spending another 5 yrs as a First Responder and EMT it should not be thrown around lightly.


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## cprinstructor (Aug 21, 2007)

That's how I see it; RN's and LPN's are both nurses, MD's and DO's are both doctors. All EMT grades are medics in my book; just as all paramedics, Int. and Basics are EMT's.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 21, 2007)

cprinstructor said:


> That's how I see it; RN's and LPN's are both nurses, MD's and DO's are both doctors. All EMT grades are medics in my book; just as all paramedics, Int. and Basics are EMT's.



The reason many do not see the difference is because they have never went above their initial training. The same as many do not know the difference between RN and LPN, and EMT and Paramedic. True, DO and MD are doctors, but more than that, they are medical physicians. All of my pharmacists have their doctorates, and even some of the nurses I work with are Dr.'s ( PhD, DNSc, J,D,, etc) but not physicians, so titles should be used appropriately in the profession. Not only are they for recognition, but for legal clarification as well. 

We may not expect the public to recognize the difference, but we in the profession should and use them appropriately.

R/r 911


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## Rattletrap (Aug 21, 2007)

MMiz said:


> I'm not saying what you said is wrong, or irrational, but I think you may be missing the bigger picture.
> 
> This isn't about your title or my title.  The idea behind the term "Medic" is our title.
> 
> ...



As an EMT-B and an EMT-I, I hated being called a medic out of respect for those who worked hard for that title. Now as a Medic, I don't mind sharing that title.

How ever, if you want to piss me off, call me an ambulance driver. One it shows disrespect for the people who were the real ambulance drivers who worked hard to get our profession off the ground. Two it is disrespect for me. In WV where I am a medic, I can have a cpr driver and me in a truck to run am emergency. In Oh, where I am also a medic, that is not the case. 

I gave up a year of my life and in that time all I saw of my home and for many times, wife and son was the 8 hrs I was at home for sleep. I worked full time and went to class and did clinicals, went home went to bed and got up and did it all over again. I lost out on a lot of time with my son and that hurt my relationship with him. I am spending a lot of time repairing that

So to call me an ambulance driver shows disrespect for my sacrifices and training to be a Paramedic.


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## oldschoolmedic (Aug 21, 2007)

*nooooooooooooo............*

Please don't open the ambulance driver can-o-worms again.

R/R ignore this thread, he knows not of what he speaks


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## cprinstructor (Aug 22, 2007)

There's no need for legal clarification when calling either an LPN or RN a nurse. They're both nurses. Of couse, we all know LPN's that want to be referred to as nurses rather than LPN's, just as there are paramedics that don't like being referred to as an EMT-P.


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## medicdan (Aug 22, 2007)

Rattletrap said:


> As an EMT-B and an EMT-I, I hated being called a medic out of respect for those who worked hard for that title. Now as a Medic, I don't mind sharing that title.



I was just in Israel, and I am going back in about a month to volunteer on an ambulance. I was at a fair and talking to one of their "medics" while checking out one of their ambulances. When I told him that I am an EMT, he didnt understand me-- they use the term "medic" interchangeably, and have a separate term for what is their equivalent to our Paramedic. I felt quite humbled that week, calling myself a medic, then I came back to reality in the US. Not to open up the discussion again, but I think it is all very interesting.


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## Tactical Medic (Aug 23, 2007)

:wacko: OK not to confuse anyone we in the Navy and our Marine Corps brothers call the "medics" Docs 

We the "Docs" call the MDs and PAs - Doc, and they inturn call us Doc, LOL :wacko::wacko:


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 24, 2007)

cprinstructor said:


> There's no need for legal clarification when calling either an LPN or RN a nurse. They're both nurses.



Actually, in my state it is a felony misrepresenting yourself for any license level. For example an LPN calling themselves an RN or a EMT calling themselves a Paramedic .. which could be misinterpertated as calling themselves a medic. 

Most states require RN's to have to wear that title on their uniform or body, when working. I know of no state that does not, even in psych hospitals.

So yes, technically and professionally there is a need for clarrification, especially in PCR. 

R/r 911


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## cprinstructor (Aug 24, 2007)

And we're talking about how people are referred to, not initials on a badge. If you believe an LPN being referred to as a nurse is incorrect, let alone a felony, you are mistaken. Why? Because an LPN IS a nurse. And as far as an EMT calling themselves a Paramedic, I haven't read anything close to that in this thread. I agree that someone COULD misinterpret someone being called a medic a paramedic; but I'm sure you're aware that when an LPN is called a nurse, someone COULD misinterpret that to mean that the person is an RN. Nobody is talking about misrepresenting themselves, let alone commiting a crime. I think you're stretching things a bit here.


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## BossyCow (Aug 24, 2007)

There are several different topics here.  One is someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves as having a higher medical credential than they actually possess.  This is a felony and with good reason.  If I'm applying for a job, or performing skills outside of my scope of training and creating the illusion that I am trained and skilled in them, I am creating a deception and deserve to have the book tossed at me spine first

The second is the misconception among members of the public regarding the various levels of certification which means pretty much nothing to them. They only start to care when they want you to do something that you can't do because of your certification level.  I think taking the time to explain to the little old lady in bed#3 the difference between CNA, NAC, PCA, LPN, RN and the housekeeper who also wears scrubs is pointless.  A simple, concise, "I'm sorry ma'am, I can't to that for you but I can sure get someone who can." is going to be a lot more effective than a lecture on the varied levels of healthcare certification and licensure.

The third issue is the perception of the public that having an ambulance show up when they need one means that the government is sufficiently funding EMS in their community.  This is a political issue and best left to those with political or activist leanings.  We are a relatively new field and there are growing pains as we assert ourselves at the feeding trough of public funds.  I wish more people would become active in the evolution of EMS in the public sector, but its a difficult, thankless job and I understand the reluctance of the majority to become involved.


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## RescueShirts.com (Aug 24, 2007)

As a paramedic for the past 16 years... there is no "skin off my nose" if everyone in EMS was referred to (by the general public) as "medics".

Sure beats "ambulance driver". (When nurses call me this, I point out that they are not "bed pan attendants"... althoug that is part of their job... just like me driving the ambulance occasionally.)

Why do people jump to the conclusion that "Medic" is a short version of Para*medic*... 

After all... it also occurs in Emergency *Medic*al Technician.


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## Guardian (Aug 24, 2007)

BossyCow said:


> There are several different topics here.  One is someone deliberately misrepresenting themselves as having a higher medical credential than they actually possess.
> 
> The second is the misconception among members of the public regarding the various levels of certification which means pretty much nothing to them.



This is all one issue, not different topics.  It's all connected.  I won't beat the dead horse but I would encourage new members to go back and read this entire thread.  I originally brought this issue to light and explained in detail how important this is on several fronts.  If you can get past the pompous, know-it-all style of my posts, you will find some darn good points that make sense.


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## Emtgirl21 (Aug 24, 2007)

I believe that EMT-B and EMT-I should be called EMT's. Paramedics go through a butt load of training, time and effort for the their title. Now I do refer to myself as a Medic student. As I get into class more and expand my knowledge and skills I dont feel that i really belong to either group. Guess Medic Student in a group of its own. I very seriously doubt I will even call myself a Medic until I have gotten about a year on the streets.


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## DwayneW (Aug 25, 2007)

MMiz said:


> I've gone up to *many *patients and said "Hi, my name is Matt, and I'm an EMT with ---."  I can't even count the number of people who ask what an EMT is.
> 
> My response is always "I'm a medic," and they immediately know that I mean.



This is crazy to me! They have no idea what you mean because you have lied to them. Doing hospital clinicals, had I ever given this response to a patient that asked my status, I would have been immediately removed from clinicals and dropped from my medic program. If I was lucky, the wasting of two years of education would have been the end of it. I am an EMT-B. Being a few months from "medic" does not make me a "medic", to pretend to be so is, and should be, criminal. 

I'll ask you to forgive me if I remake a point here, I had to bail on the bickering after the 5th page...

I think the attraction for basics to be called medics is that the term brings to mind in the general public a _paramedic_, from TV fame, or _Medic_ from the military movies, both pretty prestigious things to aspire to (the stereotype I mean). I don't think basics have earned the right to be called medics, any more than I allow my family or coworkers to nickname me "doc". I didn't earn that title, it doesn't fit, and I'm not going to feed their misconceptions.

EMT is a clear title. Many have said that the person bleeding on the ground doesn't care about titles, yet in the next breath claim they are confused by the term EMT.

The further I go in my education, the more I realize I may never know enough to fill the shoes of a good "medic." But I have worked for it, my family and I have sacraficed for it, and I hope to some day deserve it. If so, I know that I will have earned it. The term medic is not a generic catch-all for anyone that's survived "some type" of medical training and it's not neutral. It carries weight with most people that I know outside of the medical professions.

If there is such a need for a generic term, choose one that others haven't sacraficed to give weight and character. And no, I'm not a paragod, I have no idea if I'll even make a good medic, it just kind of bothers me that we want to pretend that "medic" is just some random term folks picked out of the air to avoid confusion. I think there's more to it than that...

Have a great day all.

Dwayne


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 25, 2007)

Okay, this has gone on for long enough without a solution.

For those of you that are offended by an EMT-B or other using the term medic because you don't want to "confuse" or "misrepresent" or whatever to your patient, nows your chance to fix it.  This includes all who want to keep telling our patients what our specific level is for whatever reason.



I challenge everyone to come up with a single term that will apply equally to all members of pre-hospital EMS so that the public can be educated.

After all, how can we  begin to be treated as a professional if we can't even decide what to call the members of our profession.  Like nurses are part of the nursing profession, we need a label/name that will identify our profession.


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## Rattletrap (Aug 25, 2007)

ffemt8978 said:


> Okay, this has gone on for long enough without a solution.
> 
> For those of you that are offended by an EMT-B or other using the term medic because you don't want to "confuse" or "misrepresent" or whatever to your patient, nows your chance to fix it.  This includes all who want to keep telling our patients what our specific level is for whatever reason.
> 
> ...



With the exception of those who are trained in First Aid and First Responders ,in the United States, we are all EMT's. There can not be a universal term. You are given a level of certification and you should be identified appropriately, be it EMT for EMT-B or Intermediate for EMT-I or Paramedic for EMT-P. As EMS professionals we should expect this and educate Joe Public and the "Bed Pan Attendants" (Nurses Aids, LPNs, RNs, RNBSNs).

"Bed Pan Attendants": RescueShirts.com, see what you got started.


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## cprinstructor (Aug 25, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> I believe that EMT-B and EMT-I should be called EMT's. Paramedics go through a butt load of training, time and effort for the their title. Now I do refer to myself as a Medic student. As I get into class more and expand my knowledge and skills I dont feel that i really belong to either group. Guess Medic Student in a group of its own. I very seriously doubt I will even call myself a Medic until I have gotten about a year on the streets.


You refer to yourself as a "medic student"?!? You're going to call yourself a "medic"?!? Since you seem to be such a stickler for legal names and initials, I assume you'll refer to yourself by your correct, legal title, right? Will that legal title be "medic", or will it possibly be something else? If you truly believe what you're talking about here, you should NEVER refer to yourself as a medic.


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 25, 2007)

Rattletrap said:


> With the exception of those who are trained in First Aid and First Responders ,in the United States, we are all EMT's. There can not be a universal term. You are given a level of certification and you should be identified appropriately, be it EMT for EMT-B or Intermediate for EMT-I or Paramedic for EMT-P. As EMS professionals we should expect this and educate Joe Public and the "Bed Pan Attendants" (Nurses Aids, LPNs, RNs, RNBSNs).
> 
> "Bed Pan Attendants": RescueShirts.com, see what you got started.



Yes, there can be a universal term if enough people want it.  Given all of the different levels of EMT's in this country, going by your level designate is not always appropriate or possible. In my state alone there are nine different levels of EMT, and other states have more or less.

And if you want to be such a stickler for terminology and use the letter designates as part of your identification, then paramedics must be referred to as paramedics and not medics...after all, medics are only in the military.


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## Rattletrap (Aug 25, 2007)

ffemt8978 said:


> Yes, there can be a universal term if enough people want it.  Given all of the different levels of EMT's in this country, going by your level designate is not always appropriate or possible. In my state alone there are nine different levels of EMT, and other states have more or less.
> 
> And if you want to be such a stickler for terminology and use the letter designates as part of your identification, then paramedics must be referred to as paramedics and not medics...after all, medics are only in the military.



The people who handle billing for EMS Providers would love to have a universal term. It would make their life easier, also would make medicare fraud easier.

Insurance companies would hate the universal term for just that reason. These are the guys I am betting on. Of course they want "ambulance driver" as  a universal term so they could pay out less money.

Think about the issues that would be caused for transport units. A basic level truck would be sent to transport a cardiac patient with a bunch of drugs hanging and a cardiac monitor. They would have to then use a non universal term to get the appropriate truck sent. 

Oh, yes. Just think what that would do to pay levels for those who already are under paid.

We already have the universal term "ambulance driver" and it is not working and is upsetting to those of us who paid our dues to earn our level of certification we have. You can change the words to what ever you want but the outcome will be the same. which is people being upset by being compared  to someone else who has not put in the time and sacrifices(mostly with their families) that they have to achieve what they have.


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## VentMedic (Aug 25, 2007)

Rattletrap said:


> As EMS professionals we should expect this and educate Joe Public and the "Bed Pan Attendants" (Nurses Aids, LPNs, RNs, RNBSNs).
> 
> "Bed Pan Attendants": RescueShirts.com, see what you got started.



A good start to education would be educating yourselves on the proper terminolgy of the professionals (healthcare or otherwise) you are attempting to educate. This might include their education levels, credentials, licensure and the current title that is appropriately used in the 21st century.  When my accountant rattles off his impressive list of credentials, I just smile and nod because he's lost me after CPA.

Even Ridryder911 still addresses me (with RRT- Registered Respiratory Therapist) as a Respiratory "Tech" at times. I usually overlook it because that is how my current profession was addressed since the early 1960s. But, it is offensive to the new B.S.R.T.s.  However, just recently when RT did raise their education minimums to A.S., we changed our titles. We are no longer have Respiratory Technician and Respiratory Therapist. We are all called Respiratory Therapists with the same amount of entry level education (A.S.) but the opportunity to be credentialed as Certified (CRT) or Registered (RRT). We are all credentialed with national exams and licensed in each state we work in.  But, unless you (EMT whatever and John Q Public) were on the RT national mailing list, how would you know? We know who we are.  And, the patients we make contact with know who we are and what we do.  That is all part of a good and professional introduction. Short, sweet and to the point but can be elaborated on if requested. 

Even in the hospital, it is difficult to keep track of the various titles and professions. Many healthcare professionals will never come in contact with pre-hospital people unless they are in an accident. Sometimes you are just called the ambulance or rescue team in fear of addressing your title incorrectly. Yes, I have heard some very rude corrections in the ER from time to time from all sides.  

There is very little EMS workers have agreed upon the in past 35 years so why start now. If minimum education standards ever get established and the 46 different certifications consolidate into some type of suitable title, then maybe pre-hospital people could concern themselves about one or two titles to call themselves.


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## Emtgirl21 (Aug 25, 2007)

cprinstructor said:


> You refer to yourself as a "medic student"?!? You're going to call yourself a "medic"?!? Since you seem to be such a stickler for legal names and initials, I assume you'll refer to yourself by your correct, legal title, right? Will that legal title be "medic", or will it possibly be something else? If you truly believe what you're talking about here, you should NEVER refer to yourself as a medic.



Do you understand the handle you just flew off of because I sure don't. I dont agree with EMT-B and EMT-I refering to themselves as medics or Paramedics because to get to the point of Paramedic takes a lot of effort. Not because of the legal title. I dont see what the problem with the term medic is. You act like i just called them the south end of a north bound donkey or something.


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## VentMedic (Aug 25, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> Do you understand the handle you just flew off of because I sure don't. I dont agree with EMT-B and EMT-I refering to themselves as medics or Paramedics because to get to the point of Paramedic takes a lot of effort. Not because of the legal title. I dont see what the problem with the term medic is. You act like i just called them the south end of a north bound donkey or something.



Emtgirl21, you are correct. Medic is not a protected term for any certification or licensure. 

Medic is a general term for any medically trained individual, including doctors, nurses, paramedics and other medical personnel. Military medical personnel use the term but also have their official titles.


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## medicdan (Aug 26, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> Medic is a general term for any medically trained individual, including doctors, nurses, paramedics and other medical personnel. Military medical personnel use the term but also have their official titles.



To prove your point, here is the Merriam Webster Dictionary Definition of "medic


			
				M-W Dictionary said:
			
		

> Main Entry: medic
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Latin medicus
> : one engaged in medical work or study; especially : CORPSMAN



The term is so vague that hundreds of professions and titles fall in to the definition. I understand the discomfort with the term, but it seriously can mean so many different things.    

Just as a side note, look at the first definition at http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=medic
Urban Dictionary is a slang dictionary.


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## sandboxmedic (Aug 26, 2007)

*The name game*

i think displaying EMT Vs. EMT-Intermediate Vs. Paramedic is needed. Especially when working a BIG scene, or if you happen to be grouped with multiple agencies working on a problem. Having that name on a Vest lets people know who you are, the level of care, and if your overwatching a big incident at a glance you can see who you have where and whats being accomplished. I think its a much needed an integral part of an ICS (incident command system). I also think their should be labels for Nurse-RN, Physician as well. I always get a little irritated when i would bring in a trauma patient and everyone is wearing masks and a blue gown...LOL. My local ER (stateside) had implemented easily readable tags for the truama support teams so you could tell at a glance who was who, helps save ya from repeating yourself, and stepping on the residents toes when ya immediately ask for the "attending trauma physician" to give report. 
How do you folks do it?


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## Rattletrap (Aug 26, 2007)

VentMedic said:


> A good start to education would be educating yourselves on the proper terminolgy of the professionals (healthcare or otherwise) you are attempting to educate. This might include their education levels, credentials, licensure and the current title that is appropriately used in the 21st century.  When my accountant rattles off his impressive list of credentials, I just smile and nod because he's lost me after CPA.
> 
> Even Ridryder911 still addresses me (with RRT- Registered Respiratory Therapist) as a Respiratory "Tech" at times. I usually overlook it because that is how my current profession was addressed since the early 1960s. But, it is offensive to the new B.S.R.T.s.  However, just recently when RT did raise their education minimums to A.S., we changed our titles. We are no longer have Respiratory Technician and Respiratory Therapist. We are all called Respiratory Therapists with the same amount of entry level education (A.S.) but the opportunity to be credentialed as Certified (CRT) or Registered (RRT). We are all credentialed with national exams and licensed in each state we work in.  But, unless you (EMT whatever and John Q Public) were on the RT national mailing list, how would you know? We know who we are.  And, the patients we make contact with know who we are and what we do.  That is all part of a good and professional introduction. Short, sweet and to the point but can be elaborated on if requested.
> 
> ...



He he he, you know the Respiratory Therapist analogy is a poor one for me as my father retired a number of years ago as a Respiratory Therapist. Though I do get your point. 

In the ER's I rarely am mis addressed as to my title unless there is a "rent a nurse" working. Yes "rent a nurses" happens in one hospital in my area quite often as a money saving factor. 

One of the biggest reasons I am called an "ambulance driver" is that someone is too flipping lazy to read my name tag which has the word "Paramedic" in half inch letters on it. I have since quite wearing it for that reason.


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## VentMedic (Aug 26, 2007)

Rattletrap said:


> In the ER's I rarely am mis addressed as to my title unless there is a "rent a nurse" working. Yes "rent a nurses" happens in one hospital in my area quite often as a money saving factor.



"rent a nurse" is definitely not cost saving through the registry. The hospital has to pay the agency and a very good wage to that nurse. Using "rent a nurse" is one of the biggest budget busters in the industry. You will also find that a hospital is staffed throughout,, RNs, RTs, Radiology, PT etc with registry or travelers that may make up to 20% of the licensed staff in some hospitals especially during "season". Many of these "rent a nurses" are from other states/countries where the certifications for EMS might be totally different. So, no, they may not be familiar with the local EMS system. 

So you have the advantage on some professions by already being familiar with hospital workers. You may also be an outgoing type of person that readily tells someone who you are right away. My point is not everyone is as well versed on the correct terminology of other professions because it is changing all the time. Many EMTs don't know how many different professions even exist in healthcare. I'm amazed at the number of certifications and titles in EMS. Florida has 2, Alabama has 3 and Washington State has 6 different titles or certifications for EMTs. And, there is not that much education or skill separating some of the certifications. The patches that used to be readily identifible for EMS/Fire change also. Florida finallly started recognizing the NR. 

Name badges help with the name but there is still an alphabet soup behind it. In the city, we may have 20 different services coming to our ER at any given time with different uniforms, multiple titles and various credentials. There are paramedics like myself that have multiple licenses and credentials. When I worked on HEMS, my tag read RRT, EMT-P, CCEMT-P, FP-C.  The CCEMT-P isn't well known also. Some use NREMT-P.  When working in the hospitals the EMT-P is not a recognized credential so that is not on my tag but I have another list of credentials and certifications for RT. Some agencies allow paramedics to put their whole alphabet soup on their tags. When you get all the specialty certifications on there, it can be confusing. So it is not just the different levels that are create problems identifying different EMS professionals. 

Many RNs in Florida have EMT-P behind their name especially if they do HEMS. They want to addressed by their nursing title and not as a paramedic. They may have challenged the paramedic exam to stay flying and to them it may be just another certification.  Some were paramedics and then nurses.  I usually use the first title if I can recognize what that is with the many different professions. 

So with a progressively changing medical profession, don't expect the world to stop just to learn all the pre-hospital worker titles. New certifications seem to appear every few months. Other professions also have the different levels but manage to deal with it when someone addresses them incorrectly by politely correcting them or moving on.  The patient is the priority, not someone who needs his/her ego stroked appropriately. 

The RT profession, when a title offended us because it represented a lower education and certification, raised the educational standard and eliminated that title.  The technology is changing rapidly in the RT/healthcare profession where we can not have the "lesser" trained/educated credential or individual.  

The 15 pages spent talking about this on this forum could have been put to better use writing your State board about education standards and cleaning up the alphabet soup into a recognizable profession.  The plans for EMS and the Paramedic that were started in the college systems in the 1970s have yet to be achieved. Seems like the EMS industry does a lot of projecting their issues onto others instead of taking care of their own problems. No need to criticize others if your profession has issues within itself.


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## BossyCow (Aug 27, 2007)

Guardian said:


> If you can get past the pompous, know-it-all style of my posts, you will find some darn good points that make sense.




The pompous, know-it-all style is my favorite part of your posts!  Did I ever mention I'm married to a paramedic?


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## sandboxmedic (Aug 27, 2007)

*A funny story on the name deal*

With all the chat here on names and job title designators, it reminded me of something funny that happened to me. 
Working in the sandbox, i was sent to an "outlying Ops. unit" and being they lost their last medic, i was the "new" guy. Typically, in these types of teams the medic/corpsman (sometimes anyone even slightly medically inclined) gets the call sign of "DOC". SO, me and another guy 2 new additions to this team, they tell the other guy he gets 1 of 2 names until he does something stupid to "earn" his call sign, these 2 static names are "s***paper or showershoes" he can pick between the 2. They look at me and say, you, were just gonna call you "DOC". I laugh and proceed to joke them back and say how unoriginal that name is, as EVERY other team iv'e worked with had the same name for me,...promptly, and without missing a beat.....i was named "band-aid".....sarcastic *******s....LOL
This was ALL fun and games until I threatened to Nasally tube them with a Combitube.....HAHAHAH....so back to "DOC" i go.....

Then I proceeded to enlighten them with a Bit O' mal-adjusted medic humor.." A wise man once said, It is very BAD Karma to piss off the medic"h34r:

hahahah


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## medic417 (Aug 27, 2007)

Just make everyone a paramedic.  In Mexico everyone is a paramedic.

Then just say soy un paramedico, I am a paramedic.  Just add basic, intermediate, or advanced to the end problem solved.  bye bye, adios, hasta la vista.


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## Emtgirl21 (Aug 28, 2007)

Heres one for ya. Went on a call for fainting....turns out to be high BP and we are trying to talk this lady into going to the hospital. She looks at the fire men and goes well yall aint doctors. Then looks to me. I said ma'am i'm an EMT so then she looks to my Paramedic partener and says so your the doctor he said no ma'am I'm a Medic. She says well then yall dont know whats wrong with me when I called 911 I wanted a doctor. Wow thats all I could say. Our medical director does go on calls with us. He would of been handy that day.


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## sandboxmedic (Aug 28, 2007)

Emtgirl21 said:


> Heres one for ya. Went on a call for fainting....turns out to be high BP and we are trying to talk this lady into going to the hospital. She looks at the fire men and goes well yall aint doctors. Then looks to me. I said ma'am i'm an EMT so then she looks to my Paramedic partener and says so your the doctor he said no ma'am I'm a Medic. She says well then yall dont know whats wrong with me when I called 911 I wanted a doctor. Wow thats all I could say. Our medical director does go on calls with us. He would of been handy that day.


Oh, i hate it when that happens. Even if the M.director IS there, but some of the "country folks" grew up in the time of "house calls"and aren't the wiser. Just smile, be polite, and if stubborn, convince them to go with you, to the DOCTOR.


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## JGUSresponder (Sep 11, 2007)

Why can't we just say EMS?  "EMS was called"  "EMS is onscene"  While I agree that EMS might not be a great universal title, it represents all of us.  We also need a way to distinguish between the different levels of EMS.  The current system (EMT-B, EMT-I, Medic) is understood by all of us responders.  If the general public calls us medics, emts, responders, let them or correct them, but I don't see why we have to get a universal title when we know what the hierarchy is.  I don't see how primary, intermediate, advanced is any different.  What are we going to be yelling when we have emts and paramedics on scene and we need to intubate? "We need an Advanced"  It doesn't seem easier to me.


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## rgnoon (Sep 11, 2007)

Oh good heavens this thread just wont go away.


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## crash_cart (Sep 13, 2007)

rgnoon said:


> Oh good heavens this thread just wont go away.



LOL-Opinions are like a certain part of the human anatomy, everyone has one.

In looking at material to study up, there is a clear distinction between EMT and paramedic.  I'm not certain why it's so confusing for the general public, perhaps a new term for EMT needs to be coined and put "out there."  CSI has educated many a citizen, maybe we need a rescue show from hollywood to help people get it right.:wacko:  I'd like to see a show where "med-techs" and paramedics are featured.B)

As for a blanket term for everyone, why not EMS providers?:unsure:  


Okay, problem solved.  Sorry *rg*, just had to chip in and bring this one back from oblivion.


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 13, 2007)

Actually there has been shows, but unfortunately majority of the public assume that they have Paramedics when they don't. (As reported by ABC News) Definitely, something BLS services do not want to publicize. 

As well, most EMT's fail to recognize that EMT's is just a very * small* portion of EMS. As well as prehospital care is just a * tiny* portion to the meaning of EMS. EMS is much more than pre-hospital care. 

Doubtful, of one remembers or if you were taught the components of EMS. (Citizens, Communications, Prehospital care, Emergency Intervention, Surgical Intervention, Rehabilitation) Yes, rehab has just as much part as prehospital care. If one is not able to function or live in a normal state, what validity or efforts was our part worth? 

Remember, to look outside the box!

R/r 911


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## JGUSresponder (Sep 13, 2007)

*I agree*



crash_cart said:


> LOL-Opinions are like a certain part of the human anatomy, everyone has one.
> 
> In looking at material to study up, there is a clear distinction between EMT and paramedic.  I'm not certain why it's so confusing for the general public, perhaps a new term for EMT needs to be coined and put "out there."  CSI has educated many a citizen, maybe we need a rescue show from hollywood to help people get it right.:wacko:  I'd like to see a show where "med-techs" and paramedics are featured.B)
> 
> ...



I agree "EMS providers" sounds good to me.

I would love a show similar to COPS only EMS


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## Arkymedic (Sep 13, 2007)

JGUSresponder said:


> I agree "EMS providers" sounds good to me.
> 
> I would love a show similar to COPS only EMS



Thats what Paramedics use to be when it was on...


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## BossyCow (Sep 13, 2007)

Maybe its because my TV only gets three channels and I won't buy a dish, but the idea of TV being the medium to educate the public about EMS just hurts my head.


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## june (Sep 13, 2007)

I think I like your system a lot better .
Glad to see you!


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