# You come across someone who has been shot..



## DrParasite (Aug 27, 2013)

you are driving a BLS ambulance/911 ambulance in an urban city, and you come across a GSW victim who has been shot multiple times.  pt is not DOA.  you are the only unit on scene, what do you do?

So this questions is more of an operational questions vs a clinical one, so how you treat the actual injuries is not what i am asking.


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## Chimpie (Aug 27, 2013)

Is there anyone else around?
Did you see anyone leave the area?

I would have to assume that if you're able to obtain that the person is not DOA and that they were shot "multiple times" you're most likely out of the ambulance already, and that you and possibly your ambulance are now part of the crime scene.

Advise dispatch, request PD, request second ambulance, begin treating the pt if you feel it is safe to do so, while trying to preserve the crime scene as much as possible.


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## STXmedic (Aug 27, 2013)

I'd call it in, make sure there wasn't someone standing nearby with a gun pointed at me, then start treating. If you can see that he's not DOA, you're probably right on top of him already anyway. If the shooter comes back (which isn't likely), I'll kindly step aside.


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## exodus (Aug 27, 2013)

STXmedic said:


> I'd call it in, make sure there wasn't someone standing nearby with a gun pointed at me, then start treating. If you can see that he's not DOA, you're probably right on top of him already anyway. If the shooter comes back (which isn't likely), I'll kindly step aside.



Exactly, call a still alarm, get a 911 unit heading out, and just start treatment. From what I've read, and seen online. On shooting scenes like this, much of our danger is crossfire, not people trying to kill *us*. They want the one guy dead and that's it, and many of the gangsters know that killing us is akin to killing a cop in terms of manpower that will be put on it so they won't. They also know we're not armed.


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## Tigger (Aug 27, 2013)

Am I in my own jursidiction?

If so I am going to get moving to a hospital fairly rapidly. Not much for me to do on scene anyway with the added benefit of lessening the chance of being inadvertently shot at...

Even if it's not my area there is still a case for getting out of there on the quick side.


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## chaz90 (Aug 27, 2013)

Yeah, I think I'd scoop and run regardless of the jurisdiction. One unit, so two people on scene in an urban setting. Seeing as it is urban, the closest hospital is probably <10 minutes away. Grab the victim, don't get shot, and drive.


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## chaz90 (Aug 27, 2013)

I'd also obviously advise dispatch and get PD en route. BTW, I think the same would apply to even a private IFT company right? I haven't worked for a service without the area 911 contract, but I imagine most have exceptions for this type of scenario. I know there have been many posts on the topic before, but the answer in most cases seems to be stop if you don't have a patient, provide on scene treatment to your scope, and notify the 911 service. In this case, I have no interest in staying on scene longer than necessary.


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## Tigger (Aug 27, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> I'd also obviously advise dispatch and get PD en route. BTW, I think the same would apply to even a private IFT company right? I haven't worked for a service without the area 911 contract, but I imagine most have exceptions for this type of scenario. I know there have been many posts on the topic before, but the answer in most cases seems to be stop if you don't have a patient, provide on scene treatment to your scope, and notify the 911 service. In this case, I have no interest in staying on scene longer than necessary.



A company that is no friend of mine got in some serious trouble in Colorado Springs for attempting to transport a patient from a wreck on I25, and I have heard of the same occuring with another IFT operation in the area. 

Not saying I agree with it, just adding that there can be some rather dumb regulations out there.


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## Rialaigh (Aug 27, 2013)

throw him in the back and haul ***. treatment can be en route (contrlling bleeding). Rapid early heads up report to the ER and thats it.


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## DrParasite (Aug 30, 2013)

this happened to one of our units at our south location (routine driving, found a person shot), so I was curious what others would have done.

As for me, scoop and run, throw GSW vic into truck and get off the scene, advise PD for investigation, and start heading to trauma center.  I'm not going to delay patient care by requesting another ambulance, I am not going to care whose primary I am in (the patient needs a trauma doctor and rapid transport), I'm going to get off the scene as soon as I can and let PD do their investigation.

I will say, I might even scoop the guy up and drive a couple blocks and stop if I need my partner for something, but I'm not a big fan of staying on scenes like this any longer than I need to be.


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## firecoins (Aug 30, 2013)

I work for an IFT company in NY.  We have the same protocols as the 911 units. We transport.  With the shooter's location and identity being unknown, we are not sticking around and we aren't leaving the patient there.


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## Mariemt (Aug 30, 2013)

With the shooters location being unknown Im not sure id leave my rig until PD got there 

If I didn't see anyone,  scoop and run


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 30, 2013)

Advise dispatch (you shouldn't have to request PD if your dispatchers are worth anything, trauma pre-alert, load him, boogy to the ER. Better for the pt and safer for you than sitting on scene with an armed perp on the loose in the area. 

I promise you in an urban setting you'll have pd on scene before you're departing, out job is patient care, not to investigate crimes. 

The OP said a BLS 911 ambulance so I guess request an ALS intercept but they're probably further out than the hospital is. 

If you're not in your jurisdiction advise your dispatch center then call 911, that's going to be faster than your dispatchers doing it. I see no reason why you couldn't ask the 911 operator if there was an issue with you transporting. I'd bet they'd have an issue with it though considering them they couldn't bill for the transport. Personally, if its not my jurisdiction and they deny your request I transport I'm staying put or if its unsafe moving away from the scene with or without the patient. I'm not willing to, potentially, sacrifice my livelihood for a total stranger. People die every day, call me cold but it's true.


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## abckidsmom (Aug 30, 2013)

Robb said:


> I promise you in an urban setting you'll have pd on scene before you're departing, out job is patient care, not to investigate crimes.
> .



This. 

We ran up on a stabbing spilling out of a bar one night. The crowd spotted us and flagged us down before we knew what was happening. The overwhelming sentiment of the crowd was that they wanted us to help him, we called the mayday before we got out of the truck and cops were there within 30 seconds.


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