# IS there any money in EMS outside of fire?



## NorCal (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm new to the forum and I have prior experience in public safety (police) and I've noticed there doesn't appear to much money to be made in EMS outside of being employed by a Fire Department.

I have a few questions since I'm not well versed in this area. I do know that I have zero interest in fire, not that there is anything wrong with it, I just don't have any interest in becoming a Fire Fighter.

Are all EMT-P's in a Fire Department crossed trained in Fire Fighting or can you just work as an EMT-P at the FD?

Another question I have is what seems to be the trend in the EMS field in regards to contracting out services to a private vendor? Is this happening more and more or do you see these government positions as stable?


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## JPINFV (Sep 3, 2010)

I've heard medical directors make good money...


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## FLEMTP (Sep 3, 2010)

depends on where you work. I made 60k last year working my 24/48 schedule and an occasional overtime shift ( like maybe 1 shift every 2 months) my base salary is 58k, meaning if i worked only my scheduled shifts, i would make 58,000. We also have free insurance (employee only) and 100% employer paid statewide pension (25 year retirement, age 52 min, 3% multiplier)

we are well taken care of. Almost a little TOO well

But we are also now taking some big cuts into our budget, and I fear layoffs are on the horizon because our union "wont allow" any pay cuts.


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## NorCal (Sep 3, 2010)

Well that is reassuring. I was cruising around another website (Indeed) and I noticed the national average for EMT-P was somewhere around 35-40K per year and another website listed wages somewhere around $16 hour.

That seemed pretty low considering, from what I've heard, the Paramedic course is 12 months long and is regarded as a very difficult course with a high fail out rate.

I'm currently taking a math course at my community college where yesterday I met the head math instructor who specifically teaches medical math (LVN, RN, Rad Tech, Paramedic). She made the comment that EMS is extremely under paid, and if I wanted to peruse it, I better align myself with a Fire Department. I used to work with her husband at the Sheriff's Department so I trust her opinion.

This is why I wanted to educate myself here by posing the question to those here that have more experience with EMS.


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## medic417 (Sep 3, 2010)

You will find few that pay what myself and flemtp get that are not fire related.  Most are at or below the numbers you list.


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## 46Young (Sep 3, 2010)

To answer your question, no, there is no money in EMS outside of fire, save a handful of statistical outliers, as medic 417 said. I personally know of only two exceptions. One is South Carolina. Charleston County specifically. Medics start at around 38k, go up to 46k after six months or so, and top out near 68k. Fire depts can pay firemedics 35k or so, maybe with a top out of 50-60k. In NYC, the hospitals pay near what FDNY pays it's 5 year FF's. 

Since we're talking salary, it's important to consider career advancement opportunities. In EMS the opportunities are limited at best. In the fire service, more so in moderate sized to large depts, the sky's the limit. A Capt II at my dept makes exactly double my base as a firemedic with a couple of years in. If there is opportunity for advancement, you can at least promote out of a substandard salary.

The only depts that have single role medics, ones that do only EMS but are employed by the FD, are FDNY, Philly, and Alexandria, VA. All three have a seperate EMS division. The thing is, all new employees hired by Alexandria Fire and EMS are being made to sign a document, as a condition of hire, that stipulates that they must crosstrain as a FF if the dept mandates it at a later time. If they decline to train as a FF at that time, then they will be dismissed. existing single role medics are grandfathered in. From what I've seen, in a FD that has seperate suppression and EMS divisions, the FF's are generally paid more than medics, let alone EMT's, and also receive superior benefits.

I've seen more privates get bumped for either a fire based EMS syetem or a municipal third service EMS, than the opposite. There is much evidence of poor EMS delivery by various privates, definitely enough to convince the local gov't to deny them a contract. Using 911 buses to do IFT's when not assigned to a call, lower hiring standards, staffing issues, a signifcantly lower experience level of provider due to turnover, the threat of leaving if the area becomes unprofitable, lower quality equipment, lower morale of the employee, among other things.


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## NorCal (Sep 4, 2010)

46Young said:


> To answer your question, no, there is no money in EMS outside of fire, save a handful of statistical outliers, as medic 417 said. I personally know of only two exceptions. One is South Carolina. Charleston County specifically. Medics start at around 38k, go up to 46k after six months or so, and top out near 68k. Fire depts can pay firemedics 35k or so, maybe with a top out of 50-60k. In NYC, the hospitals pay near what FDNY pays it's 5 year FF's.
> 
> Since we're talking salary, it's important to consider career advancement opportunities. In EMS the opportunities are limited at best. In the fire service, more so in moderate sized to large depts, the sky's the limit. A Capt II at my dept makes exactly double my base as a firemedic with a couple of years in. If there is opportunity for advancement, you can at least promote out of a substandard salary.
> 
> ...



I appreciate the input. I'm aware that the salary situation is a touchy issue in EMS. I have to admit that when I was in law enforcement, I always assumed that Fire and EMS were paid closely to us. (Making six figures in our area where the cost of living is extremely high)

Well from what it sounds like I have some soul searching too do. Like I stated before, a position in Fire doesn't appeal to me. But I may have to adjust and go the fire route if that is the only way to make a decent living and raise a family. Money isn't everything, but I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that its a factor. I understand most people hear would die for a position in a FD, but I was true blue through and through before the economy took its toll forcing massive lay-offs.


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## beandip4all (Sep 4, 2010)

NorCal said:


> if that is the only way to make a decent living and raise a family



it's not.  your significant other could also work.  two 40k or two 50k salaries = not shabby.  i know plenty who do it on less!

:shrug:  

at the same time, i emphasize with your conundrum.  

cheers


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## EMTinNEPA (Sep 4, 2010)

Hospital-based services in Central Pennsylvania pay VERY handsomely for the cost of living.  When I was a Paramedic Intern at one of them, the coordinator told me that the previous year he had made a significant amount more than his wife (a PICU nurse at one of the top hospitals in the country).


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## reaper (Sep 4, 2010)

Living where you do, you are kind of stuck. Other areas of the country, FD has nothing to do with EMS.

If you look at starting pay rates. Where I am, a medic makes more the LEO and twice as much as a FF.

You have to look at the area. fire/medics might make good money in one place, but the cost of living may be double. So, it really is not any more money.

EMS has never been about making huge money, it is about wanting to do the job. Yes, you can make a good living and have a stable career. More areas are cutting back FD and LEO jobs, but EMS is staying stable or growing. You just have to decide what is best for you.


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## ohnoyoudidnt (Sep 4, 2010)

EMTinNEPA said:


> Hospital-based services in Central Pennsylvania pay VERY handsomely for the cost of living.  When I was a Paramedic Intern at one of them, the coordinator told me that the previous year he had made a significant amount more than his wife (a PICU nurse at one of the top hospitals in the country).



The jobs are out there, you just have to look hard for them. New Castle County, DE, starts at 40K a year and tops at 61k after 6 years not including OT or ALS incentives. 

Then there is my current gig, Rural Uh-oh where you have to work 48 hours normally, plus another 12-24 in OT and another full time job just to pay your bills. Top pay at RMA without OT is 44k if your lucky enough to ever get to the top pay. The average is somewhere around 33-35K, and if your an basic you wont break 23k unless you pick up 20-30 hours of OT a week.


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## 46Young (Sep 4, 2010)

NorCal said:


> I appreciate the input. I'm aware that the salary situation is a touchy issue in EMS. I have to admit that when I was in law enforcement, I always assumed that Fire and EMS were paid closely to us. (Making six figures in our area where the cost of living is extremely high)
> 
> Well from what it sounds like I have some soul searching too do. Like I stated before, a position in Fire doesn't appeal to me. But I may have to adjust and go the fire route if that is the only way to make a decent living and raise a family. Money isn't everything, but I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that its a factor. I understand most people hear would die for a position in a FD, but I was true blue through and through before the economy took its toll forcing massive lay-offs.



If you're under 35, can't you apply for the U.S. Park Police? They are very well taken care of. What about state police in various regions? Some places take lateral transfers.

As far as fire, there are depts that train you for fire, but you'll ride the ambulance most of the time. Also, there are firemedicas that would rather ride the engine all the time, so they would be happy to swap your engine tours with their ambulance tours. Something to think about. Also, unless you're in an urban area, structure fires are relatively infrequent. You'll be doing mostly alarm bells, car fires, MVA's, gas leaks, outside fires, etc.


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## 46Young (Sep 4, 2010)

beandip4all said:


> it's not.  your significant other could also work.  two 40k or two 50k salaries = not shabby.  i know plenty who do it on less!
> 
> :shrug:
> 
> ...



That's good in theory, but who's raising your kids? The cost of child care can largely negate the additional salary. It's not worth it for the second parent to work FT, with shuffling the kids around, for  maybe $10/hr or so after child care costs.


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## 46Young (Sep 4, 2010)

reaper said:


> Living where you do, you are kind of stuck. Other areas of the country, FD has nothing to do with EMS.
> 
> If you look at starting pay rates. Where I am, a medic makes more the LEO and twice as much as a FF.
> 
> ...



Reaper's not kidding. When I worked in Charleston County, FD's were hiring for around 22-25k/yr on a 24/48 schedule. Police were paid crap as well.

http://www.charlestoncity.info/dept/content.aspx?nid=817&cid=9930

You need a two year degree just to apply, and if you have a six year degree you're still maybe equal with a medic crew chief that got their cert in a six month mill! You would have to be a sucker to get a Master's and then work for 45k or whatever.


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## 46Young (Sep 4, 2010)

ohnoyoudidnt said:


> The jobs are out there, you just have to look hard for them. New Castle County, DE, starts at 40K a year and tops at 61k after 6 years not including OT or ALS incentives.
> 
> Then there is my current gig, Rural Uh-oh where you have to work 48 hours normally, plus another 12-24 in OT and another full time job just to pay your bills. Top pay at RMA without OT is 44k if your lucky enough to ever get to the top pay. The average is somewhere around 33-35K, and if your an basic you wont break 23k unless you pick up 20-30 hours of OT a week.



That's the problem with EMS. Unless you live somewhere where homes go for under 150k, a salary of 0k with a top out of only 60k isn't going to cut it. At 40k, you're bringing home maybe 2,300-2,400 a month if no deduction for a pension. $3,300-3,500/onth at 60k, which takes six years to get to. 

That salary range only works if there's liberal OT. If OT is scarce, you'll need to get a side job that probably pays equal to or less than your hourly rate.

I love when people say that they're making good money at their EMS job. They make 10 or 12 bucks an hour, but their regular FT schedule is 72 hours/wk, and they pick up a couple of shifts here and there. If your job is more enjoyable than your personal life, then I guess it could work out.

It irritates me when people question why members of my dept are paid on par with those posessing a 4-6 year degree. It's because we work 56 hours a week, not 40 like everyone else.

You can live well on an EMS salary, if you do OT and per diem work. The problem is, you're cost of living, such as rent/mortgage, car payments, etc. will be in line with your total income, not just your base. This is the trap that many in EMS fall in to. They can't leave the field since they're dependent on these several income streams. And what happens if you get injured? No OT or PT work for you, and less than 100% of base salary if you don't properly insure yourself.

Please don't read me as hostile. I just want to get people thinking on financial matters. I wish I knew these things when I was starting out in EMS.


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## abckidsmom (Sep 4, 2010)

46Young said:


> That's good in theory, but who's raising your kids? The cost of child care can largely negate the additional salary. It's not worth it for the second parent to work FT, with shuffling the kids around, for  maybe $10/hr or so after child care costs.



Thanks for saying this. I could out-earn my husband in nursing or EMS education, but the time and money we save with me being home with the kids and homeschooling is just impossibly priceless.


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## abckidsmom (Sep 4, 2010)

46Young said:


> That's the problem with EMS. Unless you live somewhere where homes go for under 150k, a salary of 0k with a top out of only 60k isn't going to cut it. At 40k, you're bringing home maybe 2,300-2,400 a month if no deduction for a pension. $3,300-3,500/onth at 60k, which takes six years to get to.
> 
> That salary range only works if there's liberal OT. If OT is scarce, you'll need to get a side job that probably pays equal to or less than your hourly rate.
> 
> ...



Long commute.  With a 24 hour shift, the nearly 2 hr commute is worth it to acheive a central VA living on a NOVA salary.  So, with the long commute and the 56 hour work week, I guess there's the built in OT, but the 4-days are nice.

I saw a car recently with union tags, that said something like LV4MY4DAY (I know that's too many letters, but I can't remember how it went exactly).


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## NorCal (Sep 4, 2010)

Most of my education is LEO based. I have an AS Degree in Behavioral Science and I am currently two semesters away from completing my BS Degree in Emergency Services Management. (Got to love the GI Bill)

Currently I'm taking the First Responder course just for fun, and too see if a position in EMS really interests me. Since I left LE, I picked up a position where I manage a Security Department at the regional hospital. So I spend a good amount of time in the Emergency Department as we have the contract with the county mental health and the county jail. 

A friend of mine left the hospital to work as an EMT-B with AMR on a 24 hr rig. She was making around 50K as an admissions clerk in the ER, and now she makes around 40K as an EMT-B but she seems much happier with the new job.

I was hoping that my degree's might afford me a better position/ standing with an EMS outfit. I fully understand that I would have to start out as an EMT-B and put my time in; I'm just putting the feelers out there in order to reap the reward from the experience here on this forum.


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## aodem (Sep 5, 2010)

I feel your pain. I'm also a former LEO from the Portland Or. area. I unfortunately let my medic certifications lapse while going through the  academy and FTO phases. ( what do I need to keep up my medic for...this job is forever right?) Ah, hindsight. I start the EMT-P program at the end of this month. Again. The starting salaries between new officers  and new medics, at least in Oregon, are fairly comparable but officers advance much quicker. Unless you are willing to relocate, you may have to get into the mindset of working 2 jobs or working for a fire service. BTW, thats a good looking shepard in your avatar. Were you a K9 officer? If so, you should try to latteral up to the NW.


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## NorCal (Sep 5, 2010)

aodem said:


> I feel your pain. I'm also a former LEO from the Portland Or. area. I unfortunately let my medic certifications lapse while going through the  academy and FTO phases. ( what do I need to keep up my medic for...this job is forever right?) Ah, hindsight. I start the EMT-P program at the end of this month. Again. The starting salaries between new officers  and new medics, at least in Oregon, are fairly comparable but officers advance much quicker. Unless you are willing to relocate, you may have to get into the mindset of working 2 jobs or working for a fire service. BTW, thats a good looking shepard in your avatar. Were you a K9 officer? If so, you should try to latteral up to the NW.



I'm starting to realize as an LEO I was extremely spoiled when it comes to pay and benefits. Everything else seems to come up short in comparison. I may have to go the fire route if I want something comparable. And no, I wasn't K-9 (I Wish) I was just a beat cop with no specialties other than cross trained in narcotics (Although I never worked for the Narc Unit) I just had the training. I breed working line German Shepherds in my spare time. The one in my Avatar is my male (East German Red Sable).


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## beandip4all (Sep 7, 2010)

46Young said:


> That's good in theory, but who's raising your kids? The cost of child care can largely negate the additional salary. It's not worth it for the second parent to work FT, with shuffling the kids around, for  maybe $10/hr or so after child care costs.



There's always the option of having sig other be the primary breadwinner/chief earner.  Who says it has to be YOU?  With our shifts (1 24, 1 36) it would be easy to swing some sort of arrangement where you are the mainly stay at home parent.  I know people I work with do this.  

I just... I don't know.  Sometimes I think some people in EMS (and I'm not trying to insinuate it's you...just a lot of people I've encountered, both on here and IRL) just feel so ENTITLED.  "Yes!  Let me work a 'cool' and 'fun' job that 10,000 other people would work for free (volunteer) or would do for less than me, but no no no, I DESERVE a high wage, I deserve lots of overtime, I deserve a great pension." 

You people want to make lots of $$$?  Want to send your kids to college and summer camp and sports clubs and have a boat and fancy toys?  Pursue a different stable and high-paying career.  Go be an investment banker, or a tax attorney, an insurance salesman, or an accountant.  Work some soul-crushing 9-5 that isn't inspiring, doesn't help people, but pays the bills and lets you lead a comfortable lifestyle. 

You want to save lives, do an unconventional, glamorous job?  Then get in line, and be willing to do it for less.  

Life's all about choices, and you need to figure out what you're willing to sacrifice for, and where you can cut corners.


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## sono (Sep 7, 2010)

The one thing that confuses me about discussions on pay is when someone has to mention volunteers. Yes they will do it for free but I am willing to bet that the the reason they can volunteer is because they have income coming in from somewhere else.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 7, 2010)

Police have volunteers, yet they still make a livable wage.

Fire has volunteers, yet career ffs make livable wages.



Why is EMS the exception?  Our job IS dangerous.  Our job IS one that, relatively speaking, not many people can do, and does, generally, require some brainpower to do well.  We have the right to demand good pay/benefits/pension.



Granted, no one gets in to EMS expecting to make 6 figures... but we shouldn't be making less than 35, either.


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## Aprz (Sep 7, 2010)

Same for programming. Programmers make pretty good money, and yet people do it for free, which GNU and the Linux community clearly demonstrates.


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## ohnoyoudidnt (Sep 7, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Why is EMS the exception?  Our job IS dangerous.  Our job IS one that, relatively speaking, not many people can do, and does, generally, require some brainpower to do well.  We have the right to demand good pay/benefits/pension.



Our slogan here is CPR.

*C*ant *P*ay *R*ent


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## 46Young (Sep 7, 2010)

beandip4all said:


> There's always the option of having sig other be the primary breadwinner/chief earner.  Who says it has to be YOU?  With our shifts (1 24, 1 36) it would be easy to swing some sort of arrangement where you are the mainly stay at home parent.  I know people I work with do this.
> 
> I just... I don't know.  Sometimes I think some people in EMS (and I'm not trying to insinuate it's you...just a lot of people I've encountered, both on here and IRL) just feel so ENTITLED.  "Yes!  Let me work a 'cool' and 'fun' job that 10,000 other people would work for free (volunteer) or would do for less than me, but no no no, I DESERVE a high wage, I deserve lots of overtime, I deserve a great pension."
> 
> ...



Soul crushing, I like that. A few times my wife has complained about my work schedule, being away nights and weekends and such. I would remind her that I'd rather eat a bullet than work in an office in the typical business setting. Soul crushing is an apt description. 

When I first started out, I was resigned to the fact that I could live okay on an EMS salary. Not be able to save for a house, or be able to save much for retirement, but be able to pay the bills and have a little extra left over. As I got a few years in, I realized that I wanted to do better than just "okay," even though I was already doing better than the average person. I was going to go the nursing route for the $$$'s and career development, but the fire based opportunity became available. It pays on par with those soul crushing office jobs, but I would have eventually left EMS, or at least dropped to per diem, if the fire based thing never happened.


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## 46Young (Sep 7, 2010)

sono said:


> The one thing that confuses me about discussions on pay is when someone has to mention volunteers. Yes they will do it for free but I am willing to bet that the the reason they can volunteer is because they have income coming in from somewhere else.



Or, in some areas, it's required to volunteer for a certain amount of time before you can apply for a paid position. It's a clever way to get free labor, you use a bunch of young adults for next to nothing, dangling that employment carrot in front of them. Some also believe that volunteering is good for a resume, so they do it for a year or two, basically until they get a paid job.


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## 46Young (Sep 7, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Police have volunteers, yet they still make a livable wage.
> 
> Fire has volunteers, yet career ffs make livable wages.
> 
> ...



I'll agree with others that there is too much supply for too few jobs in EMS. Where we go wrong, however, is that most employers pay too little, and hire anyone with a pulse. This leads to many jumping from employer to employer, and also others leaving the field for other professions.

What should happen instead, is for employers to compensate better, and tighten up on entry requirements, not just hire every mutant with a valid card. Keep turnover down. If less EMS jobs are available, then an EMT or paramedic class won't appeal to most people.  They'll look somewhere else for the easy in. A job as a security guard is easy to get, and requires an 8 hour class, and another 16 hours an a couple of months. At least that's what it was when I used to bounce. My county hires school bus drivers off the street with no CDL, trains them, and pays almost $17/hr. There's two quick ways to make money right there. One takes no skills or brain power, the other gives you OJT.


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## firetender (Sep 7, 2010)

*Entitlement*



beandip4all said:


> a lot of people I've encountered, both on here and IRL) just feel so ENTITLED.
> 
> Want to send your kids to college and summer camp and sports clubs and have a boat and fancy toys?
> 
> You want to save lives, do an unconventional, glamorous job?  Then get in line, and be willing to do it for less.



That's a good angle to explore because it's a two way street. 

As a starting place isn't it fair to say that *in a civilized society, the citizenry should be entitled to the protection of life, limb and property proportionate to the society's success?*

We have already established, in the U.S. anyway, that Fire and Police protection are worth paying for -- either through taxes or subscription. It has been already covered that these are stressful jobs, sometimes life-threatening, and those who provide the service are worthy of our support.

What's wrong with this picture?

Is there any way that services provided in EMS are any LESS valuable than those provided by Police and Fire? Are the providers themselves any LESS under fire?

If you're going to be altruistic, then be fair about it. Such services as Fire, Police and EMS are ALL Sacred Trusts that should be provided for free by the society that profits so much by our participation in it. And the people who provide the services should be well-taken care of. Period.


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## Veneficus (Sep 7, 2010)

46Young said:


> I'll agree with others that there is too much supply for too few jobs in EMS. Where we go wrong, however, is that most employers pay too little, and hire anyone with a pulse. This leads to many jumping from employer to employer, and also others leaving the field for other professions.
> 
> What should happen instead, is for employers to compensate better, and tighten up on entry requirements, not just hire every mutant with a valid card. Keep turnover down. If less EMS jobs are available, then an EMT or paramedic class won't appeal to most people.  They'll look somewhere else for the easy in. A job as a security guard is easy to get, and requires an 8 hour class, and another 16 hours an a couple of months. At least that's what it was when I used to bounce. My county hires school bus drivers off the street with no CDL, trains them, and pays almost $17/hr. There's two quick ways to make money right there. One takes no skills or brain power, the other gives you OJT.



I wish this were true, but around here, they have to set the limits on fire applications at the first 2000 when they are just creating lists and not expecting to hire or hiring 1 or 2 guys in 2 years. 

Literally hundreds of students a semester go to EMS schools in the area and pay thousands to give themselves a better "chance," only to be number 1000 on the list because somebody got bonus percentage points on a mindless Civ service exam for living in the city or being exmilitary. 

Not to begrudge a service member, but does a guy who is a firefighter or police officer for 10 years serve the country less than a soldier for 4?

As long as the hope is alive people will pay what it takes to "look better" when no jobs exist or what they are doing has no impact.


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## dudemanguy (Sep 7, 2010)

EMS is an underpaid profession no doubt, but the fact is its a job many people like to do and some even do it for free.

Employers generally pay what is necessary to attract and retain people, and no more.

I work as a CNA at a long term care medical facility, and the turnover rate is really high. There is simply a workload and stress load that most people wont accept, and a million different ways to get fired. CNAs there are paid a fair amount more than emt-basics, nearly 14 an hour starting out, but they cannot retain people to save their life. We cant even get people to make it through orientation.

I also work on call as a CNA in a hospital med surge unit and that job is a breeze by comparison, but the pay sucks, I do it mainly for the experience, not to pay the bills. You generally get paid well either because you posess skills or education that is in demand, or because you have a job that people dont want to do. EMS is simply an attractive job to many people that doesnt require a huge amount of education or training, hence the pay sucks.


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## ShesanEMT (Sep 7, 2010)

*Not an Ivy Leauge Job*

I agree. My husband is the bread winner, we've cut costs b/c we chose for me to stay home with our kids while they were small rather than pay up the crack for childcare.This is our choice, not saying it would work for everybody. Now, i'm ready to go back to work and am very willing to volunteer and/or work part-time and gain experieince before jumping into a grueling work schedule. The 24-hour days would work for me b/c my husband would be home with the kids during that time; but yes, some people expect the many perks that careers/jobs with years of education provide and that's not a fair comparison. 
I chose EMS b/c I have an affinity for human beings; I want to serve in a way that goes beyond the quest for more money or recognition...sure getting paid is nice, but "how much" it not my first concern.


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## DrParasite (Sep 7, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Police have volunteers, yet they still make a livable wage.


yep





Linuss said:


> Fire has volunteers, yet career ffs make livable wages.


yep





Linuss said:


> Why is EMS the exception?  Our job IS dangerous.  Our job IS one that, relatively speaking, not many people can do, and does, generally, require some brainpower to do well.  We have the right to demand good pay/benefits/pension.


here is the problem with your line of thinking: we ACCEPT poor pay.  They (management, bosses, city hall, the bean counters, whatever the purseholders are called) are offering us $9 an hour and we ARE TAKING IT.  

FD and PD both have unions.  They DO NOT ACCEPT $9 AN HOUR.  None of their firefighters will accept $9 an hour.  Not only that, but the majority of FD and PD's are municipal, so you can't outsource the service to a crappy for-profit company who is only looking to make a profit.  So they are in a pretty good bargaining position.  Not only that, but the vast majority of PD and FD's (that are paid anyway) are tax based, so in addition to any revenue they can generate, they have millions in tax dollars to help balance their budgets.

EMS, on the other hand, tends not to be municipal based and funded, and are often not unionized.  They are often outsourced to for profit companies, or volunteers, or hospitals, so you don't have that tax subsidy balancing out the books. Plus you get (newbies) people who are willing to accept $9 an hour, regardless of skills, abilities or anything, and as long as the paperwork gets filled out and the company can bills, management doesn't care if they have a brain or not.

Both have more supply than demand (many FD's and PD's require 0 experience or training to get hired, they will train you once you get the job, so you get a large number of applicants for every individual position), but with the other two, you have a municipal funding and the lack of willingness to accept a poor salary.



Linuss said:


> Granted, no one gets in to EMS expecting to make 6 figures... but we shouldn't be making less than 35, either.


yep


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## NorCal (Sep 7, 2010)

DrParasite said:


> we ACCEPT poor pay. $9 an hour and we ARE TAKING IT.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AMR resently become a Union shop?

It sounds like to me that a good majority of folks in EMS are working in the field but don't plan to remain in EMS. They need the experience in order to move into a paid fire position. So long as you have folks who there for the short term, you lack a long term plan such as union organizing, better wages, higher standards during the hiring process, wages, and retirement. 

If what I heard about AMR is true, I would hope to see more private companies move in this direction to make it better for everyone in EMS. Fire & LEO have strong unions and personnel; but their real advantage is that nobody in those career fields are just "passing through" so everyone has their sights set on the long term goals of their organization.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 7, 2010)

Maybe out your way in Cali, but here in DFW, no union.


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## Aprz (Sep 8, 2010)

From what I have heard, Alco (Alameda County in California) AMR has a union.


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## beandip4all (Sep 8, 2010)

AFAIK, all AMR in norcal is unionized.  sf, marin co, san mateo co, santa clara co... etc...


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## LonghornMedic (Sep 8, 2010)

There are good paying EMS jobs. You just have to look and do some research. First off, private ambulance will always underpay you. Try and find a 3rd service agency. Here in Austin, Austin-Travis County EMS and Williamson County EMS both offer starting pay in the $50,000 range, good equipment and good benefits.


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