# Fairfax County Fire & Rescue Hiring Basics



## 46Young (Mar 6, 2013)

The Fairfax County Fire & Rescue Department is opening the application process to non-medics until March 15th. This doesn't happen often - the process is usually closed for most of the year, sometimes longer.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/recruitment/


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## danno34 (Mar 14, 2013)

*Fairfax*

How do you like Fairfax and when do you think they'll be hiring Medics again? What's the cost of living there compared to Long Island?  Is the salary decent? You can PM me if that'll be better. Thanks! Long time since we worked 46Eddie!


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## 46Young (Mar 14, 2013)

danno34 said:


> How do you like Fairfax and when do you think they'll be hiring Medics again? What's the cost of living there compared to Long Island?  Is the salary decent? You can PM me if that'll be better. Thanks! Long time since we worked 46Eddie!



Getting on with Fairfax is like hitting the Lotto. They're continuously hiring medics, so apply as soon as you have your NR-P. Basics have to wait for sporadic openings.

Cost of living in Fairfax is rougly equivalent to LI, depending on where you live. With our schedule (10 days a month), you can commute from 30-45 mins away and have a much lower cost of living. I live about 50 mins from my station, and my first house cost $292k, 3200 SF Colonial with a 1700 SF basement, .33 acres.

I'll PM you so we can catch up.


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## 46Young (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm sure you know that we have four others from North Shore working here besides myself. Only one guy left in 2007 for Charleston County EMS. I worked with him there for a few months until Fairfax called me.


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## DrParasite (Mar 15, 2013)

you know, I might just apply to Fairfax.  I guess if i get hired, I will end up going to paramedic school.  at least then it will be a worthwhile investment in my future


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## danno34 (Mar 15, 2013)

46Y.....I  got your PM except I can't answer since I'm still a newbie. I think I need one more post. Anyway, yea we both got hired on the same day in 03 at NS. I'm sure you can figure it now! I went to NYM Medic program last year. Just trying to venture off down south. Have some things lined up. I'll post again and then PM you back. Hopefully it lets me!


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## danno34 (Mar 15, 2013)

I also just rec my National Registry Paramedic. Seems everyone outside of NY requires it.


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## 46Young (Mar 15, 2013)

I think you need ten posts before you can PM. I think I have a good idea who you are. If you still work at NS, my cousin still works per diem in dispatch. Get my number from her if you want. Or find Dennis V. if he still works there per diem. We talk occasionally.

Anyway, medics with NR-P can apply with Fairfax at any time. You have to go to their site and do it on-line. You'll do one trip for the entrance exam, one for the CPAT, and three days together for the psych, the medical, and the poly. That's all you need to do to complete the hiring process.


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## 46Young (Mar 15, 2013)

DrParasite said:


> you know, I might just apply to Fairfax.  I guess if i get hired, I will end up going to paramedic school.  at least then it will be a worthwhile investment in my future



Fairfax is only a few hours from Northern Jersey, and they'll put you through medic school a year or two in if you request it.


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## DrParasite (Mar 15, 2013)

if they do 24s, i can even do the commute from NJ.  cool





46Young said:


> Anyway, medics with NR-P can apply with Fairfax at any time. You have to go to their site and do it on-line. You'll do one trip for the entrance exam, one for the CPAT, and three days together for the psych, the medical, and the poly. That's all you need to do to complete the hiring process.


you know, I did fairfax City's and found their physical exam to be easy.  ditto loudon county's.  I do with that they could do the psych, medical and poly in 1 one day.  driving down 4 hours for an hour or 2 test always seemed like such a waste of a day to me.


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## danno34 (Mar 16, 2013)

*Fairfax*

How are the raises there? You've been there for a while now are you also a FF? Sorry I'm trying to build up my post number. This is ridiculous! Working at Wyckoff Hts tonight on the Queens side, I got all night! LOL (per diem gig)


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## 46Young (Mar 16, 2013)

danno34 said:


> How are the raises there? You've been there for a while now are you also a FF? Sorry I'm trying to build up my post number. This is ridiculous! Working at Wyckoff Hts tonight on the Queens side, I got all night! LOL (per diem gig)



You should have my number through the PM.

Raises are good, step based, but it takes a long time to top out. We're all cross-trained as firefighters. FF/medics are trained at the firefighter salary, about $50k/yr, and then are bumped north of $70k after clearing the ALS internship. My current base, with five years on and one promotion is around $84k/yr. I've broke $100k each of the last four years, $130k the last two, if that gives you any idea. The FLSA laws and our 56 hour work schedule (a variation of a 24/48) makes it easy to break $100k without trying too hard.


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## RUABadfish002 (Mar 17, 2013)

Fairfax is a great department, but the schedule was a big turn off for me.


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## Christopher (Mar 18, 2013)

46Young said:


> You should have my number through the PM.
> 
> Raises are good, step based, but it takes a long time to top out. We're all cross-trained as firefighters. FF/medics are trained at the firefighter salary, about $50k/yr, and then are bumped north of $70k after clearing the ALS internship. My current base, with five years on and one promotion is around $84k/yr. I've broke $100k each of the last four years, $130k the last two, if that gives you any idea. The FLSA laws and our 56 hour work schedule (a variation of a 24/48) makes it easy to break $100k without trying too hard.



If you guys weren't all hazards I'd join, it ain't software, but it ain't a pay cut either. Few of the guys from my service area joined up about two years ago and are loving it.


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## NYMedic828 (Mar 18, 2013)

Christopher said:


> If you guys weren't all hazards I'd join, it ain't software, but it ain't a pay cut either. Few of the guys from my service area joined up about two years ago and are loving it.



Hazards?


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## Christopher (Mar 18, 2013)

NYMedic828 said:


> Hazards?



Forced Fire and EMS.


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## NYMedic828 (Mar 19, 2013)

Christopher said:


> Forced Fire and EMS.



Ah gotcha.

I wouldn't want to have to work EMS either :rofl:


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## Thricenotrice (Mar 19, 2013)

46Young said:


> Anyway, medics with NR-P can apply with Fairfax at any time. You have to go to their site and do it on-line. You'll do one trip for the entrance exam, one for the CPAT, and three days together for the psych, the medical, and the poly. That's all you need to do to complete the hiring process.



There's no interview phase? Captains or chiefs?


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

Thricenotrice said:


> There's no interview phase? Captains or chiefs?



Curiously, no. I guess they figure that the psych and poly are good enough.


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

NYMedic828 said:


> Ah gotcha.
> 
> I wouldn't want to have to work EMS either :rofl:





I've seen more than a few single role EMS places where the techs don't want to be forced to do EMS. It doesn't matter if you're getting $8/hr or $35/hr, getting up two to three times a night, for an hour + each time gets old, real old after a while. 

That crap can affect your health and your relationships. I worked with a guy who was diagnosed with clinical depression, had significant marital problems, and took an extended period of leave because of the constant call volume and sleep deprivation. It sucks when you've been away from home for 24 hours, run calls for most of the night, and get home with nothing left in the tank. The kids want to play, your spouse needs you to get things done, and you've got nothing left to give. It's all the more psychologically damaging when you realize that most of these patients that rob you of sleep call for such minor issues, that are nowhere close to worthy of emergent tx/txp. C/C's like "I haven't pooped for four days" (0230), "I've had a fever for two hours" (0400), or my favorite - "I have no real complaint, I just took the wrong bus, I'm out of cash, and I just need a ride home (0100) - I needed to make up something to tell the dispatcher" will wear you out over time.

It's things like this that make people not want to do EMS txp in a combined organization. You're out of the station for long periods of time, while the engine is back in 15 minutes. The reasons that you're out are typically nowhere close to a real emergency. Even the most apathetic hardcore fire slayers will step up their game when they're assisting the ambulance crew for someone that's actually dying or severely injured. It's just that the culture is no one wants to have their time wasted by ignorant people calling for taxi rides. I hate eating cold steak three hours past dinner time because a 25 y/o called me for flu-like Sx, or an All-State-itis 5 mph MVA and they want to be transported.

The joke is that besides the money, I became a medic to do more for the patient, and also to get away from all the BLS calls. Where I come from (for non New-Yorkers), BLS handle most injuries, MVA's, sick jobs, abd pain, EDP's, medical alarms, single Sz, intox, etc. The joke is that my system used to be tiered BLS/ALS. That changed about a year after I got hired. Now, every career ambulance is ALS. It's back to running toe pain and hurt feelings. This has killed my enthusiasm for EMS. I'm tempted to look for per-diem ALS work back in NY just so that I can remember what it was like to be a medic and actually see real patients/use my protocols.


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## Christopher (Mar 20, 2013)

46Young said:


> I've seen more than a few single role EMS places where the techs don't want to be forced to do EMS. It doesn't matter if you're getting $8/hr or $35/hr, getting up two to three times a night, for an hour + each time gets old, real old after a while.



So don't run 24h ambulances


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## RUABadfish002 (Mar 20, 2013)

I think another reason being a medic in Fairfax can be draining is that nova schedule.  By the 3rd shift of your tour on a busy medic unit, you guys have gotta be worn out and sleep deprived.


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

Christopher said:


> So don't run 24h ambulances



Most of us live outside of the county. If we didn't have our 24's, many of us wouldn't be working here. Fairfax is too expensive. No one wants to travel an hour or more each way four days a week. Other counties with a strong volunteer contingent have 12 hour weekday medic units, but that's more of a punishment piece, since no one wants office hours. Having that break by riding the engine helps with burnout. It's nice sometimes when you get toned out for something non-acute, and know that you'll be back in bed in less than 20 minutes. Every time I'm on the bus, and get toned out, I know that I'm losing at least 1 1/2 hours of sleep right off the bat. Big difference. The problem with single role EMS is that there are virtually no alternatives to riding the ambulance for your entire career. There's dispatch, and maybe a position in support services. Supervisor spots are an unattainable goal for most people. That's pretty much a dead-end job. On a positive note, at my per diem IFT employer, we had a team meeting, and one of the top gripes was lack of a career ladder. So, a number of supervisor positions were generated. This is important, as those promoted get more pay, and are also able to show supervisory experience on their resume. Many EMS employers that advertise supervisor jobs want a four year degree, but also experience in management.

We have a variation of a 24/48, which is a 56 hour workweek. Some surrounding counties have a 48 or 42 hour workweek. If I had a DC schedule (24/72), or Alexandria Fire and EMS txp paramedic's schedule (24/48,then  24/96), I would be fine. You're only getting hammered two days out of every eight.

I would like us to go back to the tiered system, with ALS chase cars. It's never going to happen, though. I'd like to ride on a chase car. If the call is non-acute, I get to turf to BLS and go in-service. If it's good, then I get to transport and do more than V.O.M.I.T.


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

RUABadfish002 said:


> I think another reason being a medic in Fairfax can be draining is that nova schedule.  By the 3rd shift of your tour on a busy medic unit, you guys have gotta be worn out and sleep deprived.



Yes, absolutely! The County Exec. wants to alter our retirement and step increases (in a negative way). For every five hired employees, we do the work of seven forty-hour employees. This is mostly on straight time, due to FLSA laws. 

The schedule is better than a straight 24/48, but we could use two Kellys a month, like Frederick County, VA has. A 24/72 like DC would be more appropriate, especially for busy medic stations like 408, 409, 410, 411, 419, 421, 422, 426, 428, 430. The kicker is that the EMS LT's can only ride on PTU's (training buses), and none of these are slow. So, an EMS Lt is doomed to be busy until they retire, since they can't transfer to a retirement house without taking a voluntary demotion to EMS Tech.


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## Christopher (Mar 20, 2013)

46Young said:


> Most of us live outside of the county. If we didn't have our 24's, many of us wouldn't be working here. Fairfax is too expensive. No one wants to travel an hour or more each way four days a week.



Too many calls to have you go home after 12, too expensive to live there. Perhaps a smarter shift schedule?

Oh well, if you've got any decent call volume you can't run 24's for patient and provider safety.

The End.



46Young said:


> The problem with single role EMS is that there are virtually no alternatives to riding the ambulance for your entire career.



Organizational problem, not a problem with being single-role EMS.


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## RUABadfish002 (Mar 20, 2013)

46Young said:


> Yes, absolutely! The County Exec. wants to alter our retirement and step increases (in a negative way). For every five hired employees, we do the work of seven forty-hour employees. This is mostly on straight time, due to FLSA laws.
> 
> The schedule is better than a straight 24/48, but we could use two Kellys a month, like Frederick County, VA has. A 24/72 like DC would be more appropriate, especially for busy medic stations like 408, 409, 410, 411, 419, 421, 422, 426, 428, 430. The kicker is that the EMS LT's can only ride on PTU's (training buses), and none of these are slow. So, an EMS Lt is doomed to be busy until they retire, since they can't transfer to a retirement house without taking a voluntary demotion to EMS Tech.



I'm in PWC and we use a 24/48 with a Kelly every 7 shifts, and a double Kelly 2 or 3 times per year.  I couldn't think of a better schedule to keep morale high among the staff.  We do still have some day work engines and those guys are miserable.  A real pain if you live outside of the county, which most of us do.


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

Christopher said:


> Too many calls to have you go home after 12, too expensive to live there. Perhaps a smarter shift schedule?
> 
> Oh well, if you've got any decent call volume you can't run 24's for patient and provider safety.
> 
> ...



The problem with the call volume is that the medics are supposed to get a 50/50 split between the engine and the ambulance, but the county uses dual hat engine drivers and officers as the ALS provider, so the medic gets bumped off the engine. In some houses, the Captain is ALS, so the medics never get on the engine unless the officer is on leave. I've heard over and over again that typical EMS burnout is 7-10 years. It's the same for a firemedic that never gets off the box. 24's aren't bad if you get a break from running transport.

Many places like running 24's since you can hire less employees, and pay less in benefits/retirement packages. If you go to 12's, you'll have to hire, train, and pay more employees. If you can afford to do that, you can afford a 24/72 schedule with four platoons.


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## Christopher (Mar 20, 2013)

46Young said:


> Many places like running 24's since you can hire less employees, and pay less in benefits/retirement packages. If you go to 12's, you'll have to hire, train, and pay more employees. If you can afford to do that, you can afford a 24/72 schedule with four platoons.



We're 24x72, but only average 9 calls (~1.5 overnight), so our medics tend to stay on the ambulance for the full 24. Some shifts have done rotations in the past, but now the engine crews stay busy such that it really isn't "taking a break".


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

Christopher said:


> We're 24x72, but only average 9 calls (~1.5 overnight), so our medics tend to stay on the ambulance for the full 24. Some shifts have done rotations in the past, but now the engine crews stay busy such that it really isn't "taking a break".



I could do busy nights for my entire career if I had a 24/72. Even if it was on an ambulance all the time, so long as I'm not held over for another 24 hours, recalled, etc. Three days off in a row is sufficient to keep intact circadian rhythms. The problem is, in order to go from a 56 hour schedule to a 42 hour schedule, we would have to hire an entire platoon. That's an entire platoon of benefits and retirement to pay for as well. The county isn't going to go for that.


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## 46Young (Mar 20, 2013)

RUABadfish002 said:


> I'm in PWC and we use a 24/48 with a Kelly every 7 shifts, and a double Kelly 2 or 3 times per year.  I couldn't think of a better schedule to keep morale high among the staff.  We do still have some day work engines and those guys are miserable.  A real pain if you live outside of the county, which most of us do.



I used to live in Manassas during my first year on the job. 

When I worked in Charleston County EMS, we had a 24/48 with no Kellys, and frequent holdover for 12 or 24 hours. They had a 48 hour schedule with 12 hour shifts, but no one could get them. In comparison, the Fairfax schedule with it's 36 hour max seemed better. But now, it's beginning to wear on me. I can never seem to get any consistent engine time, either. Something always comes up - a transfer to a house with a dual hatter, a dual hatter transfers into my house, too many medics in the station, when the dual hatter goes on leave anoter dual hatter is detailed in. Now we have "Bravo" medic units (1&1), which were formerly BLS. These are at 408, 409, 410, and 411. That means that there are three medics between the engine and two ambulances. Now they only get to be on the engine one day out of three, assuming no dual hatter is on duty. M439 is also double medic, so there are three ff/medics, and only one engine medic spot. 

I need to take the next Apparatus Driver's test so that I can have a dedicated spot on the engine. There's talk of doing away with EMS Lieutenants, and having EMS Master Techs fufill that role. That means that EMS Master Techs would be on the ambulance 100% of the time, but for less pay than a LT, and no rank to boot. Great way to kill morale for EMS txp. 

There is one important benefit to the 56 hour work schedule - when I do callback (OT), I'm automatically pushing back the 212 hour threshold, so I get the time and a half, and then an extra half hour's pay per hour worked on top of that, in the back end. In effect, I'm getting double time for many of my OT hours. This is how I'm taking in north of $120k/yr without trying too hard.


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