# California firefighter and police salaries



## zzyzx (Mar 2, 2017)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 2, 2017)

And that is why so many medics go from ambulance to a FF/PM. Starting pay for a new FF/PM can be $120,000 base pay.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 2, 2017)

Heroes, truly...


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## CALEMT (Mar 2, 2017)

Wow $400,000 for a cop... my dad whose a captain for one of the largest sheriffs departments in the nation doesn't make that much. People think I'm crazy for wanting to get out of CA. Sure I won't make as much... but factor in cost of living, mean income... etc and the math is substantial in comparison but with everything factored in its equivalent... plus I'm happier not living in Commiefornia.


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## zzyzx (Mar 2, 2017)

"Commiefornia" ???
Please explain...


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## CALEMT (Mar 2, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> "Commiefornia" ???
> Please explain...



Cause people regularly refer to CA as "Commiefornia" or "The peoples republic of California" implying that CA is a communist state.


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## zzyzx (Mar 3, 2017)

How so?


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## CALEMT (Mar 3, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> How so?



Primarily how the state is governed and the laws that are implemented. I can go from 0-100 real quick with my views and opinions on CA laws but this isn't the correct time, place, and forum to do so.


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## zzyzx (Mar 3, 2017)

Trash talking our government only erodes people's faith in it. There are a lot of hard working people in government trying to make California a wonderful place to live. These people include cops and firefighters, who are of course also government workers.
Calling it Communist just because there may be some laws and regulations you don't like is not intellectually honest, nor does it help shape an intelligent debate.
Please stop bad mouthing my state.


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## CALEMT (Mar 3, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> Please stop bad mouthing my state.



Ok now, for the record I was born and raised in CA. I can talk about MY state in any way, shape, or form I want. Just because I don't view the same as you or anyone else doesn't make me any more so wrong or right. I don't agree with CA laws, so what am I doing? Im doing and making every move I can to get out of CA. CA is a beautiful state don't get me wrong. Its the only place I know of where you can go from the desert to the beach to the mountains all in one day. However, I don't like how it costs me $280 dollars every year to register my truck, the high insurance rates, the gun laws, the smog, the fact that every time it rains the infrastructure craps out. I've been in So CAL my entire life, I'm quite frankly over it. Im tired of being chastised from everybody in MY state that don't agree with my views. I respect your views and opinions even though I may or may not agree with them. Why can't you respect mine? Why do you look at my like I just pissed on the cross because I bowhunt, or have a gun, or own a truck and take it off road? I'm tired of it. I've worked for the state and had CA take its fair share of taxes out of my paychecks and what do I see in return? Roads that are still crappy, and stretches of interstate that wash out.


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## gonefishing (Mar 3, 2017)

Governor Moon Beam.  Nough said.






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## Chimpie (Mar 3, 2017)

*Knock it off and stay on topic of salaries.




*


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## gonefishing (Mar 3, 2017)

Sorry Chimpie!
What concerns me is the, system is not compensating as well as it should.  It falls under that whole rule of inflation.  The reimbursement rates seem to be either stagnant or reduced all together.   To meet the wage of skills their needs to be profit.  If reimbursement is minimal or does not keep up with cost you than can not of course raise wages and becomes than increasingly hard on the company providing such services.  In situations of a municipal, you have systems that double bill.  Yearly as a tax and than a charge any time a service is renderd case in point fire ran ems.  With a private company, your profit is depending on what systems and measures are in place.  In such metropolitan areas such as Los Angeles County their is a set rate for reimbursement.  One flat rate of a few hundred dollars plus mileage fee plus equipment fee such as a fee for use of 02.  You than break down these fees by say mrs.Jones has to go to the ED 2 miles away:
Ambulance response fee: $400
02: $150
Per mile: $1.25
Wait time fee per 15 minutes  (doesn't exsist every where) $75 
So lets say $600 is her bill.
The bill goes to Medicare
They only pay $300 of the bill (if your lucky)
You just made half of what you need to meet the cost of what is set as a standard rate.  Lets say $300x4 calls a day 1 unit x a month.  Thats $1200 for the month off that one unit.  You than need to add in the cost of insurance, wages, supplys, other bills and you than are presented with why their are such low wages in the industry.  If you are a monopoly say, AMR due to us all being familiar with AMR, your talking millions.  But again your talking a whole birthday sheet cake that can feed 30 adults when trying to feed 100.   To fix this issue, again their needs to be better reimbursements.  I dunno if that would have to be lobbying or what, but if theirs money coming in at a low flow than obviously you see the problem we are currently presented with.


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 3, 2017)

gonefishing said:


> Sorry Chimpie!
> What concerns me is the, system is not compensating as well as it should.  It falls under that whole rule of inflation.  The reimbursement rates seem to be either stagnant or reduced all together.   To meet the wage of skills their needs to be profit.  If reimbursement is minimal or does not keep up with cost you than can not of course raise wages and becomes than increasingly hard on the company providing such services.  In situations of a municipal, you have systems that double bill.  Yearly as a tax and than a charge any time a service is renderd case in point fire ran ems.  With a private company, your profit is depending on what systems and measures are in place.  In such metropolitan areas such as Los Angeles County their is a set rate for reimbursement.  One flat rate of a few hundred dollars plus mileage fee plus equipment fee such as a fee for use of 02.  You than break down these fees by say mrs.Jones has to go to the ED 2 miles away:
> Ambulance response fee: $1,200
> Night fee:$300
> ...


Fixed the prices for you haha


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## gonefishing (Mar 3, 2017)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Fixed the prices for you haha


I was just doing a simple example lol I forgot about the ol' night differential.  I did have a family member transported by LAFD a year ago, $3k was the bill.

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## Carlos Danger (Mar 4, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> *Trash talking our government only erodes people's faith in it*. There are a lot of hard working people in government trying to make California a wonderful place to live. These people include cops and firefighters, who are of course also government workers.
> *Calling it Communist just because there may be some laws and regulations you don't like is not intellectually honest,* nor does it help shape an intelligent debate. *Please stop bad mouthing my state.*



First, the government's (at every level) own irresponsibility and ineffectiveness has eroded faith in it. Numerous surveys indicate that government approval ratings and faith in elected officials across the board has been falling pretty steadily for a long time now, and for good reasons. I highly doubt that a handful of people using the term "Commiefornia" has much to do with that.

Second - "intellectually dishonest"? Really? For making a joke? Financially, California is one of the least healthy states in the nation, and it also ranks right at the bottom for respecting individual liberties. These are real reasons why the population is falling. California may be one of the most awesome places in the world, but great weather and scenery doesn't put food on the table. People are fleeing the state for places with lower taxes, more employment opportunities, and a less restrictive regulatory environment.


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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 4, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> Trash talking our government only erodes people's faith in it. There are a lot of hard working people in government trying to make California a wonderful place to live. These people include cops and firefighters, who are of course also government workers.
> Calling it Communist just because there may be some laws and regulations you don't like is not intellectually honest, nor does it help shape an intelligent debate.
> Please stop bad mouthing my state.


There are a lot of issues with CA. For example: if I want to buy a handgun, I am limited to one every month, I have a waiting period before I can actually get it, I have to get one that is on "CAs approved list", if I want ammo for said gun I now have to have a license, if I want to bring ammo in from a different state I now have to have a license. If I want to modify my truck I have to make sure it meets "CA approved emissions", so that intake system or programming chip that is legal in 48 other states I can now not get legally. 

We have a huge amount of people sitting on death row but yet our last inmate put to death was in like 2001. 

We just got it approved to release "non-violent" prisoners but also changed what is a "non-violent" prisoner. 

The whole CalExit BS. "We don't like the rest of the country or the fact that trump was voted into the presidency so let's form our own nation...

We have a state scope of practice which is so very low in what we can actual do or carry and the education standards are also very low. 

If I want to register my truck in CA it's about $490 every time but if I register it in a different state it is so much cheaper. We have a state tax, sales tax, gas tax, and any other tax that you can think of. Wouldn't be surprised if next year a tea tax comes into play. 

Really the only nice things about CA is the Mexican food and the beautiful scenery that we have. 

I am born and raised in CA so I have the right to talk about the state in whatever way I see is true. The "please stop bad mouthing my state" is part of the issue that plagues CA. If you want people to stop bad mouthing the state then the state needs to be fixed. We cater to the thin skinned population who cry and protest in the streets anytime anything happens that they don't agree with. Officer shoots bad guy with a gun = protest/riots. Citizen shoots bad guy with a gun= protest/riots. Off duty cop defends his property from teenage thugs = protest/riots. Trump might get elected = protests/riots. Trump gets elected = protests/riots. Do I need to go on?


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## E tank (Mar 4, 2017)

Remi said:


> People are fleeing the state for places with lower taxes, more employment opportunities, and a less restrictive regulatory environment.



Fleeing indeed. And the irony is that the same "refugees" bring the very mentality they are fleeing to where they re settle.


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## DrParasite (Mar 4, 2017)

Yes they get paid well (along with a high cost of living) but here's the real issue: 





> One reason for the high compensation: It can be cheaper for jurisdictions to pay big overtime — at 1.5 times or double regular pay — than it would be to add staff because of the pension liabilities attached to each new hire.



They earned that money by putting in hundreds, maybe even thousands, of extra hours at work.... If they want lower overtime pay checks all they need to do is hire more personnel, and the OT costs go way down.

Management wants bodies in the seats to do the job, and doesn't care about the costs until someone complains about the OT bill..... But they still won't hire more full time personnel.... The whole article is much ado about nothing


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## CALEMT (Mar 4, 2017)

E tank said:


> Fleeing indeed. And the irony is that the same "refugees" bring the very mentality they are fleeing to where they re settle.



Which irritates me even more.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 4, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> They earned that money by putting in hundreds, maybe even thousands, of extra hours at work....


All jokes aside, this I agree with. Sure we all piss and moan about firefighters inflated salaries etc., but it's true that nothing's "just given", and I think we as a collective---especially private EMS---lose track of why it is that they get paid what they get paid.

I don't think it's not earned, I do think their unions have lobbied and fought for many of their benefits, including wages. Again, we (EMS) can't hold other services accountable for what we're paid. 

There's my "back on topic" rant. The California stuff, eh, I don't care. I'm not a huge politically driven person to begin with. I live where I live, and if, or when I choose to move then so be it.


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## gonefishing (Mar 4, 2017)

Again, if reimbursement rates were alot better than they are currently, I think private EMS would have no issues pressing forward with more attractive compensation towards its employees.  In CA a recent bill for that matter was voted upon and did not pass.  My brother who is an officer for a rather large force makes decent money but no where as much as some agencys which are in higher tax bracket areas.  A friend of mine with LAPD went 4 years or so with out a raise and the OT was next to none in an effort to lower cost.

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## DesertMedic66 (Mar 4, 2017)

Yep. We are at a 23% reimbursement rate right now... also doesn't help my company shipped its billing department overseas..


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## gonefishing (Mar 4, 2017)

DesertMedic66 said:


> Yep. We are at a 23% reimbursement rate right now... also doesn't help my company shipped its billing department overseas..


Alot of agencys are doing that.  I know LAFD had a major issue with a data breach where the billing was performed in India.  Most parking tickets go out of state and I what I find interesting is alot of healthcare plans that cover California go all the way to Ky or some other state for processing.  Cheaper labor?

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## Summit (Mar 4, 2017)

E tank said:


> Fleeing indeed. And the irony is that the same "refugees" bring the very mentality they are fleeing to where they re settle.


We just love it when CA folks come to our state because our taxes are less than half of CA's and we have more liberties and less regulations, then they ***** and moan and push for initiatives that will raise taxes and increase rules and regulations.


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## Carlos Danger (Mar 4, 2017)

Summit said:


> We just love it when CA folks come to our state because our taxes are less than half of CA's and we have more liberties and less regulations, then they ***** and moan and push for initiatives that will raise taxes and increase rules and regulations.


This exact thing has happened in NC over the past decade or so. 

People come here from the northeast looking for lower taxes, less regulation, and a healthier economy. Then when they get here, they vote in legislators who want to raise taxes and increase regulations. WTF? 

The state used to be very politically conservative, with low debt, a relatively light regulatory burden, and low taxes. It's now a left-leaning swing state, with debt and taxes rising steadily.


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## johnrsemt (Mar 6, 2017)

Sounds like people immigrating from the Middle East (Muslim nations):  They want to come to the US for the freedom and then complain because we are different wanting to change the US to be like the countries that they left:    If you want to change things so much STAY HOME AND CHANGE THERE


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## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2017)

Yeeeeah, this threads fitsin' ta' either get locked, or something. It's definitely becoming unnecessarily off track.


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## E tank (Mar 6, 2017)

johnrsemt said:


> Sounds like people immigrating from the Middle East (Muslim nations):  They want to come to the US for the freedom and then complain because we are different wanting to change the US to be like the countries that they left:    If you want to change things so much STAY HOME AND CHANGE THERE



Thought I'd get this in before the hammer comes down...the key to managing immigrants/refugees is integration. Whether they're Californians coming to Idaho or Syrians coming to Albany. They need to be brought into the culture and assimilated. That doesn't mean giving up their entire identity, just those elements that are directly contrary and opposed to or antagonistic of their host country/state. 

The United States is unique in the history of the world in it's ability to be the great equalizer of people. Are there warts? Yeah. But as long as everyone follows the rules, there's a place for anyone. Before anyone chimes in with slavery and native americans, those are two of the warts. But we have less than anyone else on the planet. It ain't great, but it's the best chance for freedom going right now.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 6, 2017)




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## gotbeerz001 (Mar 6, 2017)

I like money


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## zzyzx (Mar 8, 2017)

johnrsemt said:


> Sounds like people immigrating from the Middle East (Muslim nations): They want to come to the US for the freedom and then complain because we are different wanting to change the US to be like the countries that they left: If you want to change things so much STAY HOME AND CHANGE THERE



Well, although this is a country of immigrants, we also have a long history of demonizing outsiders. Consider how Italians used to be treated. Or how there used to be job adverts saying "Irish need to apply." We even put our own citizens, Japanese Americans, into interment camps. Never mind all the hatred that was directed against Jews, or how many thousands of Jewish lives could have been saved if we hadn't barred Jewish refugees from coming here.

I realize this is off topic, but I can't not respond to statements like this. If you are a healthcare provider, I think you don't want to go down that road of hating people for their religion, their place of birth, or whatever. You are going to be treating all sorts of people, so why not just treat them with kindness and empathy? It's probably also a good idea to turn off whatever hateful place you get your news from.


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## SandpitMedic (Mar 12, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> Well, although this is a country of immigrants, we also have a long history of demonizing outsiders. Consider how Italians used to be treated. Or how there used to be job adverts saying "Irish need to apply." We even put our own citizens, Japanese Americans, into interment camps. Never mind all the hatred that was directed against Jews, or how many thousands of Jewish lives could have been saved if we hadn't barred Jewish refugees from coming here.
> 
> I realize this is off topic, but I can't not respond to statements like this. If you are a healthcare provider, I think you don't want to go down that road of hating people for their religion, their place of birth, or whatever. You are going to be treating all sorts of people, so why not just treat them with kindness and empathy? It's probably also a good idea to turn off whatever hateful place you get your news from.


Long sigh...............................
Others have outlined the ridiculous liberalisms that have turned California from a paradise like destination to chase the American dream into a place that most rational people are fleeing at alarming rates. So I won't get into that other than to say as a former Californian (born & raised) I can attest to the "Commiefornia" metaphor.

Also....Dude. It's 2017... not 1889 or 1942.

All of us know: We have blood stains on our history books, as does every other civilization in the history of mankind- ever!
We fight, we war, we kill... for food, for land, for sex, for resources, for politics, for religion, for hate, for labor, etc.
The first stone to be picked up was likely cast at another person.

That is the overwhelmingly truthful history of mankind with intermittent specks of peace and technological advancement.

And in that history, this nation is the most civil, advanced, and opportunity prone nation to ever grace the face of the Earth. Blood was spilled to achieve that feat of evolution; some of it just, some of it unjust. However, it lead us to where we are today. In fact, without it you would not be able sit there and proclaim your ideological nonsense without fear of retribution, in your air conditioned place of peace through your internet machine, because you'd be out hunting/gathering so you didn't starve to death whilst avoiding other tribal males who would likely enslave you (or worse). The utopia of world peace and kumbaya is not real in human nature or in nature, period.

Further blood will be spilled, so long as humans are in contact with other humans. Preserving the values and principles of this great nation is a just cause, if a few have to sacrifice. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, yet here in America even the "few" get a voice which in human history has never occurred previously without severe consequences or persecution for the "few."

This thread was not intended for this topic, but *you* insisted we take the political road with your outdated jabs at an admittedly tarnished history. We should be students of history, so that we are not doomed to repeat it. Yes, slavery and genocide are bad, and we should be nicer to each other and come together to ensure these things don't happen again. But the history of the world is war and killing, you can't erase that.

Self preservation should be priority number one. Let's see you open your doors at your house to a few military aged Islamic refugees... go ahead. Let me know how that works out for you.

I've lived in various places in the world. I assure you that bad things are out there- famine, slavery, human rights violations, death, torture, etc.... you have no idea how lucky you are to be in America and to be an American (presumably). You should be happy you have clean water on demand and the ability to speak your mind, among many other privileges this nation and its path has afforded to you.

I don't know you, your story, or your experiences, but I think your mindset is far off base from reality. Being a compassionate/empathetic paramedic has nothing to do with the US turning some Jewish immigrants away before the eruption of WW II in the 1930's. Perhaps you should watch something other than CNN.


Rant over.
(Can we get back on topic)


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## E tank (Mar 12, 2017)

zzyzx said:


> We even put our own citizens, Japanese Americans, into interment camps.



The thread is derailed anyway so....lots to unpack from this post but I'll just pick one thing, the above...As crappy a deal as that was, as unfair and cruel, that saved the lives of tens of thousands of Japanese Americans. After the accounts of hand to hand fighting in the PTO and reports of Japanese atrocities across Asia, Japanese Americans would have been slaughtered in the streets.


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## VentMonkey (Mar 12, 2017)

@Chimpie we need your powers here. This is turning into ridiculously non-EMS related jargon. If I wanted a history lesson I'd join a history forum.


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## Chimpie (Mar 12, 2017)




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