# Paramedic School Question



## emt_rocketman (Dec 17, 2009)

I have been a part time inter-facility transfer emt for several years.I have worked both as an attendant and driver running transfers. Over the years, now and then we do run to the emergency room for one reason or another. I do feel that my assessments are rusty from driving for so long. I would love to go to paramedic school, as i do have more than 1000 hours of experience. However, i do not have any personal 911 experience. Only five days of 911 field training with a different company where i did learn a lot. what do you paramedics out there suggest i do? apply to paramedic school? or go get personal 911 experience before paramedic school and make sure i'm nice and brushed up before going to paramedic school? honest advice is appreciated, thank you


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## reaper (Dec 17, 2009)

Go to school!


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## Lifeguards For Life (Dec 17, 2009)

school. you'll quickly see that 911 experience is not needed to be successfull in Paramedic school


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## thegreypilgrim (Dec 17, 2009)

Go to school. Having 911 experience as an EMT does not confer any sort of advantage or "prepare" one for paramedic school. Just go for it.


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## atropine (Dec 17, 2009)

Go to school as fast as you can, hell go to RN school, and challenge a medic program when finish.


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## imurphy (Dec 17, 2009)

Go to school, move to a 911 service.

Problem solved!


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## emt_rocketman (Dec 18, 2009)

Thank you all very much for the advice. One more question.Being an inter facility emt, then going to paramedic school, then after paramedic school, i would want to run 911 als calls as a medic. After being done with paramedic school, with more of a inter facility emt background, would i be good as a 911 paramedic? assuming that i work very hard in didactics, clinicals, and field internship?


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## reaper (Dec 18, 2009)

No one can answer that. We do not know you. Some are good at 911 service and some are not.

Depends on how good your critical thinking skills are and if you can take control of the scene. You should get enough exposure during clinicals to hone these things.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Dec 18, 2009)

in some paramedic programs no emt experience is required. I have known plenty of Paramedics that finished medic school and never set foot in an ambulance until there first day as a paramedic.
Just study hard and pay good attention on your internship you will do fine


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## redcrossemt (Dec 18, 2009)

emt_rocketman said:


> Thank you all very much for the advice. One more question.Being an inter facility emt, then going to paramedic school, then after paramedic school, i would want to run 911 als calls as a medic. After being done with paramedic school, with more of a inter facility emt background, would i be good as a 911 paramedic? assuming that i work very hard in didactics, clinicals, and field internship?



Definitely go to school.

Many do it without ANY experience. Your IFT background will help you, no doubt about it.

As others said, we don't know if you'll be a good 911 paramedic. It depends on a lot more than experience and school. However, you asking about it here, your experience in IFT, and your interest in furthering your education give me an idea that you *could* be a good 911 medic if the other stuff is there.


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## EMSLaw (Dec 18, 2009)

schulz said:


> in some paramedic programs no emt experience is required. I have known plenty of Paramedics that finished medic school and never set foot in an ambulance until there first day as a paramedic.
> Just study hard and pay good attention on your internship you will do fine



I certainly hope that's hyperbole.   At a minimum, you'd have to spend a few hours on an ambulance as an EMT student, and then a few hundred hours as a paramedic intern.

But if you mean never set foot on an ambulance as the person ultimately responsible for patient care, I can buy that.


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## redcrossemt (Dec 18, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> I certainly hope that's hyperbole.   At a minimum, you'd have to spend a few hours on an ambulance as an EMT student, and then a few hundred hours as a paramedic intern.
> 
> But if you mean never set foot on an ambulance as the person ultimately responsible for patient care, I can buy that.



I wouldn't count those few hours as "experience".


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## VentMedic (Dec 18, 2009)

schulz said:


> in some paramedic programs no emt experience is required. I have known plenty of Paramedics that finished medic school and *never set foot in an ambulanc*e until there first day as a paramedic.
> Just study hard and pay good attention on your internship you will do fine


 
Regardless of the inadequacies of the U.S. EMT and Paramedic programs, they do require some type of clinicals which involves setting foot on an ambulance.



redcrossemt said:


> I wouldn't count those few hours as "experience".


 
True.

10 hours for the EMT programs usually spent around the coffee pot or in front of a TV are not enough. 

I still think they need at least 24 hours following a CNA on a busy med surg floor taking no less than 100 sets of vitals on a variety of patients. That might even give them some patient communication experience.


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## MrBrown (Dec 18, 2009)

Do you have any college classes? My advice, (boy this needs a macro)

- Chemistry or biochemistry 
- A&P (like *proper* A&P not that 5 days for Paramedics stuff)
- Pharmacology 
- Pathophysiology 
- English communication 
- Scientific research methods


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## JPINFV (Dec 18, 2009)

atropine said:


> Go to school as fast as you can, hell go to RN school, and challenge a medic program when finish.



Medical school would prepare a student better to challenge the medic degree.


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## MrBrown (Dec 18, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Medical school would prepare a student better to challenge the medic degree.



Talk about your over-education "what, you mean I have to treat this patient without labs and a CT machine and chest films and why he's upside down in a ditch and it's raining, you mean I have to crawl in here?"


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## emt_rocketman (Dec 19, 2009)

Thank you all very much again for the advice. 

Mr. Brown, I'm almost finished with a degree in Aerospace Engineering. I've had chemistry and biology back in the day. But no anatomy and physiology. But i've had thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, vector dynamics, heat transfer, multi-variable calculus, differential equations, and many other physics/science/engineering courses. I'm confident that i will have no problem in didactics and clinicals as i do know how to study hard. I may not have had A&P, but i can pick up any book and do all of the assigned reading. From what i've heard, a big portion of didactics is reviewing assessments and practicing scenarios in paramedic school. I just need to whip myself back in shape. (Because when i was in shape, i can control a scene no problem and am more confident and sharper with everything in life.) With all of the advice and everything said, i'm feeling confident that i will do well in paramedic school, and in the field as this is the most important


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## MrBrown (Dec 19, 2009)

You don't list your location so I have no way to tell if you're gonna be going to a two bit medic mill for the local fireys or a more reputable, two year school.  

The level of confidence you have in yourself is good, I however, think you are unaware of the poor standard which is required of Paramedic training in the US, I have seen it first hand and it is very disturbing.

To reach advanced life support level in the US requires around *700-1000 hours* of training (that is LITERAL clock hours in some states) Texas wins out at 624 hours, and all but two states (OR/KS) require that training to be inside a college setting.  

To reach intermediate life support level in New Zealand and Australia you require a *Bachelors Degree* while advanced life support requires slightly below a *Masters Degree* (PGCert).

The problem with the Paramedic cirricula as it stands is that the foundational content which you will use every single call, and which forms the basis for foundational practice (anatomy, physiology, pharmacoloy and pathophysiology) is so lacking that the "required reading" may be horrendously, grossly inadequate.

My A&P class (nursing (BSN) level which is also required of every other health profession, including Paramedics) contains no less than *183* specified learning outcomes (locate, describe, contrast, define .... etc) from over 2,000 pages of material whereas the the Paramedic text I use (Bledsoe/Brady) contains *16* objectives from 150 pages of material.

It would be like me telling you the content of your AeroEng degree consists of "planes fly because they have wings", seriously.

While I can only share my own thoughts with you, I strongly advise against not including the subjects mentioned in your Paramedic level education.


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## emt_rocketman (Dec 20, 2009)

I live in southern california, and i am strongly considering the victor valley college paramedic program. http://www.vvc.edu/academic/paramedic/

The only reason why i brought up engineering courses and my general education was to emphasize the fact that i can pick up heavy challenging "science" books and study/digest material, that's all.  

I live in los angeles county. Medics here call la county "mother may i la county", because they have to make base contact just to push so much medicine generally speaking. It sounds like they dont have much freedom from what i have heard them complain about. However in los angeles county, there is a hospital that can be found in every 8 miles radius from each other. so the transport times are much shorter than most places, meaning definitive care can be given right around the corner. Perhaps in other countries or states where hospitals are further away from each other, training and knowledge for paramedics is much heavier because definitive care is so far away.

Maybe i'm going out on a limb here cause i am just an emt-b, but take an la county paramedic, and line them up with a new zealand or mid-west united states medic, put them through a gauntlet of tests, and perhaps the new zealand or mid west medic will come out champ because it sounds like you have much heavier training, and maybe its much heavier because of the distance between hospitals, and the tremendous amount of responsibility that one has in keeping people alive for longer periods of time.  

What do you think?


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## VentMedic (Dec 20, 2009)

What about the areas of California which is rural? California and the counties have similar scopes. It is so limited that RNs are used for CCT throughout most of the state. Also, many of the ALS 911 companies are fire-based. The Paramedics at some these departments are only there because it either helped their application process into the FD or it go them a nice pay raise. Many do not have an interest in medicine. How much medical privilege do you want to give someone who just passed a test, which isn't that hard, just to be a FF? There are reasons why LA County didn't even try to teach their Paramedics 12-Lead ECG interpretation and chose to just go with what the machine says. 

However, it is true that even in parts of the U.S. the rural Paramedic probably has the better experience and takes their training/education seriously since it is only them with the patient for many miles.

But then the U.S. also has many BLS agencies, some volunteer, there rely alot on speed. I doubt if the U.S. EMS systems can even be compared to other countries since we don't have much consistency.


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## redcrossemt (Dec 20, 2009)

emt_rocketman said:


> What do you think?



The initial training is technically to the same standards, although there's a lot of leeway in that. Regarding the short transport times, it just means laziness. PMs get lazy because the hospital is right around the corner.

It's good that the hospital is right around the corner, but from the time you see the patient to getting them to the truck and to the hospital, I bet you are looking at 15 minutes or so in most circumstances (even in the closest urban areas). During that 15 minutes, what are you doing or allowed to do for the patient? I don't want a lazy medic who's not actively educating them self (or an intelligent medic with a very limited scope of practice) to take care of me or my family, no matter how short the transport.


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## MrBrown (Dec 20, 2009)

Depending on where you are in Kiwi the transport times are either quick, two minute nip down the road deal, or an hour away and everything inbetween.

Our mantra is not so much "long transport necessitates long list of scope" but rather that our patients deserve somebody who can provide significant interventions to improve M&M and patient comfort.

As an example, we have seven different analgesics whereas most of the US has ..... morphine.

Your patient deserves somebody who can look at them, asses them, make informed treatment decisions and not just scrape by and follow a cookbook bulleted list.  Please don't be one of those guys, get a proper education.


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## emt_rocketman (Dec 20, 2009)

Interesting stuff. I'm thinking about the school i mentioned in particular because paramedics i spoke to recommend this school over schoo


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## emt_rocketman (Dec 20, 2009)

error on the last message, accidentally hit submit reply


Interesting stuff. what ems systems are like in other countries and what not. I'm thinking about the school i mentioned in particular because paramedics i spoke to recommend this school in victorville over schools in la county like PTI. Daniel Free man has a good reputation, but it is very expensive. I guess thats why i have speaking to alot of different paramedics regarding paramedic school, and other proper steps i should take in order to make sure that i'm not a paramedic who can just scrape by, but one who is great at it. People around me say that alot of people who become paramedics are former emt-firefighters who are placed in medic schools because the department needs more heads. I'm choosing to be a paramedic cause i have a love for attending, for treating patients, and making them feel good. Period. I'm in the process of getting my head back in the game. Interesting discussion.However, lets not turn this into some sort of pissing contest :usa:


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## AnthonyM83 (Jan 12, 2010)

I replied in this other thread I saw first:
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?p=202684#post202684

DF now has financial aid options, so it might not cost as much as you think. Mt. San Antonio College program is very cheap, but incredibly difficult even for people with 4-year degrees.


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