# UMBC vs. Iowa Critical Care Paramedic courses



## TheGodfather (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm flirting with the idea of taking a Critical Care Course here pretty soon, and, with me being in SC, my options are extremely limited.

The only local Critical Care program to me is the one developed in the University of Iowa. I am not familiar with that program. How does that compare to the UMBC CCEMT-P program? Which is more recognized?

I am however able to get into a UMBC course in the spring, but that would require me to drive 4 hours one way. If it comes down to it, I will take that path, but I need good solid evidence why one is better/more preferred than the other. 

My goal is to go for FP-C after a bit of Critical Care experience, so would it really matter which one I go through? Once I get FP-C, would potential employers look at the other CC certs?
Thanks all!


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## epipusher (Oct 12, 2011)

I took the U of I's critical care paramedic program in 2003. I thought it was a heck of a class, very in depth with both the lecture part and the hands on portion. Unless it has changed, it was only an Iowa endorsement, and as far as Indiana goes, they did not recognize the additional certification.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks for the reply!

I spoke with the UofI program director at the site local to me today, and the program _sounds_ to be very informative. My only concern is, where is this recognized? He said it is recognized in South Carolina, but I really don't know if I'll be here the rest of my career. From my understanding with the UMBC program, it is recognized in a number of other states, including my home state, Michigan. 

The main thing that threw red flags up for me was the fact that this particular program director was trying to "sell" his UofI CC program to me, and then he mentioned that he is UMBC certified... lol I was like uhhh?


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## usalsfyre (Oct 12, 2011)

If I'm not mistaken CCP requires clinicals, which assuming the content is the same makes it superior to CCEMT-P (which I went through).

Just understand neither one will make you a critical care provider.


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## epipusher (Oct 12, 2011)

The UI class requires clinicals in different floors of the hospital: medsurg, cvicu, nicu, etc. But as far as I know, the class and all related training is useless outside the state, other than the extra knowledge.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 12, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Just understand neither one will make you a critical care provider.



You lost me there -- explain?

And like I said before, the real goal is to eventually test for FP-C. When it comes down to applying, and finally getting hired (at a flight agency), if I have FP-C in hand, would it really matter which way I went for the CC course? All this is essentially for is test prep, and maybe for some extra cash working on a CC truck at a local private agency when I'm not working at the FD.


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## CANMAN (Oct 12, 2011)

What he means is a class will not make you a "critical care paramedic". You have to have actual hands on patient care time on a critical care transport team. Some of the strongest critical care providers I have worked with did not even have a critical care certification. CCEMT-P is nothing more then a basic introduction to critical care transport which you COULD pickup on a decent transport team with a good orientation process and on the job training IMO. CCEMT-P is not a certification either, it's a certificate program. If you are interested in transport then apply for a job on a team somewhere. Real world experience > over classes. Do this in conjunction with taking the class and those two things coupled together would make you a critical care provider. After a 16 hour review class most good test takers can sit for and pass FP-C......It's being able to apply clinical knowledge in the treatment of critically ill patient's that makes you stand out.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 12, 2011)

> When it comes down to applying, and finally getting hired (at a flight agency), if I have FP-C in hand, would it really matter which way I went for the CC course?



Go fixed wing (you know....so you don't die in the line of duty and might actually benefit a patient) and don't worry about the CCEMT-P.  It's an alphabet certification (so is the FP-C credential to be quite honest) and your clinical background and experience is going to get you far further than a couple of short courses.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 12, 2011)

CANMAN13 said:


> What he means is a class will not make you a "critical care paramedic". You have to have actual hands on patient care time on a critical care transport team. Some of the strongest critical care providers I have worked with did not even have a critical care certification. CCEMT-P is nothing more then a basic introduction to critical care transport which you COULD pickup on a decent transport team with a good orientation process and on the job training IMO. CCEMT-P is not a certification either, it's a certificate program. If you are interested in transport then apply for a job on a team somewhere. Real world experience > over classes. Do this in conjunction with taking the class and those two things coupled together would make you a critical care provider. After a 16 hour review class most good test takers can sit for and pass FP-C......It's being able to apply clinical knowledge in the treatment of critically ill patient's that makes you stand out.



Understood, and I completely agree. I planned on hopefully picking up a part-time gig doing CC transports. There's very slim pickins' down in my area, so we'll see what I can find! I did some calling around to local agencies and asked if they could hire in as an EMT-P and then get trained as a CC Medic, but everyone I spoke with said they required CC classes prior to applying.



usafmedic45 said:


> Go fixed wing (you know....so you don't die in the line of duty and might actually benefit a patient) and don't worry about the CCEMT-P.  It's an alphabet certification (so is the FP-C credential to be quite honest) and your clinical background and experience is going to get you far further than a couple of short courses.



Agreed, yet again! (My dream is to work medevac and pull patients from a "scene scenario" rather than on fixed where it's airport to airport deals -- nothing against it, because it takes a hell of a paramedic to do fixed wing, but, like I said -- not my cup-o-tea) anyway, I guess I really am open to opinions here. I work a 24/48 rotation with my FD and I really am out of options as far as getting critical care experience goes (unless i take the class and get hired in to one of the few local ground agencies) I'm only 21, so I guess when it comes down to it, I have a LOT of time on my hands, but I really would like to advance as quickly as possible without hindering education or cutting corners (if that makes any sense)... anyway, my ears are open to any and all recommendations. fire away!


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## usalsfyre (Oct 13, 2011)

Canman and USAF covered it pretty well. To be honest? Unless you got your paramedic and have been operating as one at a progressive, busy agency that while time I doubt your ready to really dive into toting around really sick patients. Give yourself enough time to get comfortable being a regular paramedic first. I thought I was ready after a couple of years as a medic, and didn't realize how wrong I was till I was over my head.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 13, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Canman and USAF covered it pretty well. To be honest? Unless you got your paramedic and have been operating as one at a progressive, busy agency that while time I doubt your ready to really dive into toting around really sick patients. Give yourself enough time to get comfortable being a regular paramedic first. I thought I was ready after a couple of years as a medic, and didn't realize how wrong I was till I was over my head.



I agree with that. Nothing compares to the learning environment like real-world scenarios. I do, however, feel that I have been put in front of a wide range of scenarios. That, coupled with my study ethic and enthusiasm for the work, makes me believe that I can do it. I've worked EMS in the City of Detroit, as well as surrounding cities (Warren, Sterling Heights, Centerline, etc) with some experience on a CC unit, (not providing care). And now, I am in a very busy agency in a poverty stricken city in southern SC.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying I have seen it all (not by a longshot), but I do feel like my seat-time is enough to get started in these types of classes and begin to train in these types of work environments.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 13, 2011)

> (My dream is to work medevac and pull patients from a "scene scenario" rather than on fixed where it's airport to airport deals -- nothing against it, because it takes a hell of a paramedic to do fixed wing, but, like I said -- not my cup-o-tea



So you're willing to have a 37% chance of dying (or at least being in a crash that kills someone on board) during the course of your career for no demonstrable benefit to the patient?  Also you do realize that there is very little done en route with HEMS flights because of the inherent limitations (minimal space, inability to hear, need to be restrained during flight, etc) so a lot of flight medics on HEMS end up doing less than a ground or fixed-wing based medic with a busy progressive service.  



> I'm only 21, so I guess when it comes down to it, I have a LOT of time on my hands, but I really would like to advance as quickly as possible



Ah....no offense, but that explains a lot.  



> with some experience on a CC unit, (not providing care)



Then you have no experience on critical care units.  I've observed quite a few coronary bypasses....doesn't mean I am going to be good at doing one myself.



> Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying I have seen it all (not by a longshot), but I do feel like my seat-time is enough to get started in these types of classes and begin to train in these types of work environments.



Never rely upon your own opinion of your skills. Ask someone who is going to be critical but honest. Until you've been doing it so long that you start to see your own faults more than you believe yourself competent due to your experience, you're not a veteran and certainly probably shouldn't be looking to advance your skill set.


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## usalsfyre (Oct 13, 2011)

Seeing 100 respiratory failure patients is one thing. Treating them for longer than 5 minutes with progressively more invasive is another. 

I doubt your a bad medic, just give yourself a chance to be a good one before you try to move on in the world.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 13, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> So you're willing to have a 37% chance of dying (or at least being in a crash that kills someone on board) during the course of your career for no demonstrable benefit to the patient?  Also you do realize that there is very little done en route with HEMS flights because of the inherent limitations (minimal space, inability to hear, need to be restrained during flight, etc) so a lot of flight medics on HEMS end up doing less than a ground or fixed-wing based medic with a busy progressive service.



Like I said, just something I've always wanted to do. I enjoy scene responses, sorry if that upsets you?




> Ah....no offense, but that explains a lot.



Statistically, yes. Sadly it does. 



> Then you have no experience on critical care units.  I've observed quite a few coronary bypasses....doesn't mean I am going to be good at doing one myself.



I don't disagree here either. What I was getting at (in a sense) was that I was around CC and I saw first-hand kind of what the job entailed (for lack of better reasoning)




> Never rely upon your own opinion of your skills. Ask someone who is going to be critical but honest. Until you've been doing it so long that you start to see your own faults more than you believe yourself competent due to your experience, you're not a veteran and certainly probably shouldn't be looking to advance your skill set.



I, in no way, consider myself a veteran. As stated earlier, this is just a dream of mine -- I have a habit of chasing those dreams. There is no better way to get critical care experience, then to get your hands dirty. No, maybe I wont be the "most competent" in the very beginning, but everybody has to start somewhere. I don't anticipate getting thrown into a situation by myself right out of the gate; every agency I've been with partners you with experienced personnel that work with you until they feel you are competent.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 13, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Seeing 100 respiratory failure patients is one thing. Treating them for longer than 5 minutes with progressively more invasive is another.
> 
> I doubt your a bad medic, just give yourself a chance to be a good one before you try to move on in the world.



Understood. And understand, this isn't expected to be an overnight process. My whole intent was to take one of these 2 CC classes (most likely next summer), apply the skills to my job now as a medic, and after a while of that, finally test out for FP-C... Realistically, this is MINIMUM 2 years away


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## Scott33 (Oct 13, 2011)

If the FP-C is your main objective, just read Will Wingfield's ACE SAT cover to cover....twice.


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## BandageBrigade (Oct 16, 2011)

Where does UofI's program have a branch in SC? Is it out of a hospital there?

One of the main benefits of the U of I program is you are doing your clinicals at the _only_ Level 1 trauma center in  eastern Iowa. So you get to be in the ER, ICU, CCU, Burn units, peds units, the critical care transport unit staffed by the hospital (its a pretty cool customized RV/bus outfit as a ICU room. Besides the critical care transport bus, for field experiance Johnson County Ambulance is both a busy urban and rural service with pretty progressive protocals. There is also a decent local fixed wing service based out of the city.


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## firecoins (Oct 16, 2011)

Are you working as a paramedic?  

How about getting an in hospital job that gives you patient contact in a critical care environment like an ER tech?  

How about becoming an RN? In NJ RNs do critical care ground transports.  Many RNs are hired as flight RNs.


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## TheGodfather (Oct 16, 2011)

BandageBrigade said:


> Where does UofI's program have a branch in SC? Is it out of a hospital there?
> 
> One of the main benefits of the U of I program is you are doing your clinicals at the _only_ Level 1 trauma center in  eastern Iowa. So you get to be in the ER, ICU, CCU, Burn units, peds units, the critical care transport unit staffed by the hospital (its a pretty cool customized RV/bus outfit as a ICU room. Besides the critical care transport bus, for field experiance Johnson County Ambulance is both a busy urban and rural service with pretty progressive protocals. There is also a decent local fixed wing service based out of the city.



The program is offered through a school in Charleston County. I believe they coordinate with our lvl 1 trauma center out here as well (MUSC) and the clinicals are ran the same way. 



firecoins said:


> Are you working as a paramedic?
> 
> How about getting an in hospital job that gives you patient contact in a critical care environment like an ER tech?
> 
> How about becoming an RN? In NJ RNs do critical care ground transports.  Many RNs are hired as flight RNs.



Yes. I've been working 911 ALS for about 2 years now-- been looking into getting hired on ground CCT down here when im not working at the FD.

Eventually I will probably consider going all the way for RN/flight Rn, but for now I'm focusing on perfecting (to some degree) my work as a paramedic and work my way up gradually to CCP/FPC etc etc

I also checked in to ER Tech positions here, but was shocked at how little they pay and how little they let them actually do (compared to back home in MI), so I ended up abandoning that route.


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