# Southern California Private Ambulance Companies



## HereToLearn (Aug 30, 2008)

Hey everyone!

I was wondering if we have any EMT's or even paramedics out there who work for Care, Gerber, McCormick, or Schaefer on any of their 911 rigs? Good experiences? Bad experiences working for their companies? I've been talking to a few people, but I figured it couldn't hurt to see if anyone around here might have something to say about them.

By the way, if you don't want to talk about it in the open forum, please pm me because I'm trying to decide which of these companies I should apply to next...


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## John E (Aug 30, 2008)

*Be forewarned...*

if you go to work for any "911" private provider in unincorporated Los Angeles county you will only be transporting pts. for the Fire Dept. Most of the cities within the county do their own transports.

Ambulance work in Los Angeles county is about 90 % non-emergent transports.

You'll be doing a lot more pickups at convalescent homes than you will be doing any ALS work.

You'll also be working for lower wages than the average burger flipper at In and Out without the meal benefits.

Last I heard McCormick's starting pay was under $9 per hour. People with years of experience are averaging less than $10 per hour.


John E.


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## daedalus (Aug 31, 2008)

Actually, if you choose to work for private companies contracted with LAcoFD, you will be doing a very LARGE percentage of 911, and most of those will be ALS. Additionally, a very large number of incorporated cities are staffed by private rigs and LA county fire. El Monte, Diamond Bar, Temple City, Hawthorne, Calabassas, Agoura, Malibu, I could go on for ever. All these cities use LA county fire and one of AMR, McCormick, Bowers, Care, or Schafer. I have worked for a few of these and a non 911 company. I encourage you to read the few other posts were I have explained this, and wrote a whole entry on working in LA as an EMT, where the poster had one post for the entire forum and never bothered to sign back on to thank us for our answers.


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## HereToLearn (Aug 31, 2008)

John E said:


> if you go to work for any "911" private provider in unincorporated Los Angeles county you will only be transporting pts. for the Fire Dept. Most of the cities within the county do their own transports.
> 
> Ambulance work in Los Angeles county is about 90 % non-emergent transports.
> 
> ...



The way I look at it is that I'm sort of "paying my dues" by working for these low wages. It's all just gaining practical real world experience, along with some excellent resume building. So I don't mind the low pay, because it's all geared towards my ultimate goal of becoming a Firefighter! 



daedalus said:


> Actually, if you choose to work for private companies contracted with LAcoFD, you will be doing a very LARGE percentage of 911, and most of those will be ALS. Additionally, a very large number of incorporated cities are staffed by private rigs and LA county fire. El Monte, Diamond Bar, Temple City, Hawthorne, Calabassas, Agoura, Malibu, I could go on for ever. All these cities use LA county fire and one of AMR, McCormick, Bowers, Care, or Schafer. I have worked for a few of these and a non 911 company. I encourage you to read the few other posts were I have explained this, and wrote a whole entry on working in LA as an EMT, where the poster had one post for the entire forum and never bothered to sign back on to thank us for our answers.



Thanks for all the information and input so far everyone! I'll definitely be doing some searches to read up on the areas that you recommended. 

I've been an EMT for a few years now and I've already been working in LA county for a different private ambulance company for about a year, but they only did IFT's. That's why I'm going to make the move over to a company who does some 911 calls. 

I've heard it's a whole new game working on an ALS rig and I should be prepared to make some mistakes. To give a little bit of background on myself, I am using this experience with private ambulance companies as a "stepping stone" for my ultimate goal of working for the Fire Department. I've already completely my FF1 academy, obtained my Associates in Fire Science and I'm in my final 6-8 months of finishing my BS in Fire Protection Administration. I started this thread mostly because I'm just trying to figure out which of these companies would suit me the best. :beerchug:


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## John E (Aug 31, 2008)

*Have fun...*

you'll have more excitement with a so called 911 company but you'll still be doing transports for the FD if you work in any of the unincorporated areas.

You can call it ALS if you wish but the FD paramedic will be making ALL of the treatment decisions.

As far as I know, only Riverside county has a private company, AMR, actually doing 911/ALS work as they are or were anyway, the EMS controlling authority for the county since they bought the contract.

One can call oneself an ALS/911 provider, that doesn't mean that you're doing ALS or actual 911 work. Unless you call rolling up a couple of minutes after the paramedics are already on scene doing 911 work.

Given what your career plans seem to be, going to work for the Fire Dept, you'd be better off going to work in a hospital ER than you would be working for a private company in Los Angeles county. You'll see and do more trauma work in a day than you'll see or do in a week on a private ambulance and you'll make better money. Like 50% per  hour better. You'll also be learning from doctors and nurses as opposed to other EMT's and medics.

John E.


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## firecoins (Aug 31, 2008)

John E said:


> you'll have more excitement with a so called 911 company but you'll still be doing transports for the FD if you work in any of the unincorporated areas.
> 
> You can call it ALS if you wish but the FD paramedic will be making ALL of the treatment decisions.
> 
> .



Let me see if i understand this.  LAFD and a rig from a private company respond to a 911 call.  The private company transports the patient and the LA paramedic comes in the rig and treats.  Is this correct?  If it is, that not that bad.  Its a place to start.


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## HereToLearn (Aug 31, 2008)

John E said:


> Given what your career plans seem to be, going to work for the Fire Dept, you'd be better off going to work in a hospital ER than you would be working for a private company in Los Angeles county. You'll see and do more trauma work in a day than you'll see or do in a week on a private ambulance and you'll make better money. Like 50% per  hour better. You'll also be learning from doctors and nurses as opposed to other EMT's and medics.
> 
> John E.



I've been considering that route as well. I'm just a little nervous about it...


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## John E (Aug 31, 2008)

firecoins wrote the following; "Let me see if i understand this.  LAFD and a rig from a private company respond to a 911 call.  The private company transports the patient and the LA paramedic comes in the rig and treats.  Is this correct?  If it is, that not that bad.  Its a place to start."

You're close, LAFD, that is the Los Angeles CITY fire dept. has their own ambulances, they call em rescue units. They transport their own patients.

Los Angeles COUNTY Fire Dept. has Paramedics that work out of modified trucks and they do not transport their patients. The county, in their wisdom and with private ambulance companies going deep into county politicians  pockets, bid for the right to provide "911" ambulance services for those areas in unincorporated L.A. county. Those private companies are dispatched AFTER the FD squad is dispatched and upon arrival they help with patient care. Obviously some squads allow the private EMT's to do more and some don't allow them to do much of anything other than transport the pt. If an ALS transport is called for, which is decided by the Medic, not by the EMT's in the ambulance, the FD medic rides along, maintains pt. care with the assistance of the lucky EMT who's working in the back of the rig that day. 

There are some scenarios which will differ but the overwhelming majority of so-called 911 private ambulance calls in Los Angeles county are run this way. Once one gets out into the boonies of the county, the private companies do more pt. care unless they're under the direction of the FD in which case they are once again, relegated to the role of transport with a minimum of pt. care.

I have no doubt that there are exceptions to the above, they are few and far between. It's also not something that is talked about much at the educational  level, a lot of wannabe EMT's think that they're actually gonna be dealing with emergency care and treatment of the sick and injured only to discover that they are really providing a ride to the hospital, albeit with red lights and a siren.

In other words, if you live in a city or an area covered by the LACOFD and you call 911 and you need to be transported to a hospital, you'll get treated by a LACOFD Paramedic crew and transported and BILLED by a private company, and if you're lucky enough to need ALS care, again, actually provided by the FD, you'll get billed for ALS care thru that same private company.



John E.


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## Sapphyre (Aug 31, 2008)

John E said:


> As far as I know, only Riverside county has a private company, AMR, actually doing 911/ALS work as they are or were anyway, the EMS controlling authority for the county since they bought the contract.



John, San Bernardino county runs a close second, as they also have medics on board for 911 rigs, but they're also "stuck" transporting after fire is done.  Difference between them an LA County, they don't have to grab the firemedic if the pt needs ALS care.


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## mycrofft (Aug 31, 2008)

*Not a bad way to start, either way.*

Learn how to use the litter (ok stretcher or "cot"), do VS, vehicle ops and maint, etc. , without the adrenaline.


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## JPINFV (Sep 1, 2008)

Ah, the ironic about So. California. The only place where the "non-emergent" services sees more action than the 911 services because of SNFs who refuse to call 911 when they should.


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## daedalus (Sep 2, 2008)

> Ah, the ironic about So. California. The only place where the "non-emergent" services sees more action than the 911 services because of SNFs who refuse to call 911 when they should.


I wish that were the case still but LA county EMS has recently prohibited private companies from dispatching to emergencies. The only exception is CCT, and thats only when a doctor has declared she/he can do nothing more for the patient at the present facility. Since than, the only BLS I run is psych interfacility.


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## JPINFV (Sep 2, 2008)

Ouch. So, if a nursing home is sending a patient to the emergency room, regardless of the nature of the complaint, they must call 911? Interesting, albeit I can't really say I disagree with it considering some of the patients that I have been called for. Of course I'm sure that the medic/fire fighters are just thrilled with their new call volume.


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## daedalus (Sep 3, 2008)

Well, the nursing homes still refuse to call 911. They cite their ratings as the reason. My former company no-emergency company stopped running nursing homes, but when we did, we dispatched code 2, and if the transport was to be code 3, we had to call fire. Its stupid politics, or so im told. Now that I run 911, I don't keep up with this stuff.

I believe the new "rule" is in the county protocol for "transport and destination". To be dispatched emergency, you ether need to be CCT on doctors orders, or, a fire transport company. Otherwise on a code 2 nursing home response, any real emergency discovered would have to be reported to the 911 provider.


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## HereToLearn (Sep 3, 2008)

daedalus said:


> Well, the nursing homes still refuse to call 911. They cite their ratings as the reason. My former company no-emergency company stopped running nursing homes, but when we did, we dispatched code 2, and if the transport was to be code 3, we had to call fire. Its stupid politics, or so im told. Now that I run 911, I don't keep up with this stuff.
> 
> I believe the new "rule" is in the county protocol for "transport and destination". To be dispatched emergency, you ether need to be CCT on doctors orders, or, a fire transport company. Otherwise on a code 2 nursing home response, any real emergency discovered would have to be reported to the 911 provider.



Sounds about right from the IFT's I've been doing for the last year in Los Angeles County.


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## dancesport20 (Sep 4, 2008)

I did my ride along with Care a while ago and it was ok. Nothing special. I stayed at the house which was well supplied with game consoles. The night was pretty slow and we only had two calls. One was an elderly woman who fell after getting and I can't remember the other. Depends on what you are looking for in a company. Each has its own benefits and downfalls.


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## mperkel (Sep 5, 2008)

*OC IFTs*

I work in Orange County. What is said above pretty much applies to OC as well. Care, Doctors, and Medix seem to run the 911 contracts doing transport for fire. My company is IFTs.

We do a lot of emergency CCTs, which require code 3.
Although, i disagree with the nursing home thing.
Many times i've been dispatched code 2 urgent to a SNF, if the patient is serious, and the hospital is less than 5 min away, i will code 3 to the ER.
I'm not going to call in for ALS when by the time they get there, i could be in the ER.
But, yes it's true, SNFs ratings go down when they use 911 alot, therefore they use private companies to transport to the ER.


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## daedalus (Sep 5, 2008)

mperkel said:


> I work in Orange County. What is said above pretty much applies to OC as well. Care, Doctors, and Medix seem to run the 911 contracts doing transport for fire. My company is IFTs.
> 
> We do a lot of emergency CCTs, which require code 3.
> Although, i disagree with the nursing home thing.
> ...



Yes, thats orange county, not LA county. Each county creates its own protocols for EMS. OC could have protocols a world apart from LA county, yet they can be right next to eachother. So actually, you do not disagree.


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## JPINFV (Sep 5, 2008)

mperkel said:


> I work in Orange County. What is said above pretty much applies to OC as well. Care, Doctors, and Medix seem to run the 911 contracts doing transport for fire. My company is IFTs.


Don't forget about Emergency and Schaffer (although they lost their Costa Mesa contract to Care, but I don't think they've been phased out yet).



> We do a lot of emergency CCTs, which require code 3.
> Although, i disagree with the nursing home thing.
> Many times i've been dispatched code 2 urgent to a SNF, if the patient is serious, and the hospital is less than 5 min away, i will code 3 to the ER.
> I'm not going to call in for ALS when by the time they get there, i could be in the ER.
> But, yes it's true, SNFs ratings go down when they use 911 alot, therefore they use private companies to transport to the ER.



Yes, that's been my experience as well (Well, the patient is lethargic and has a pulse of 25, I think we can wait for a non-emergent ambulance. 3rd degree heart block for the loss). Similarly, I've had a bunch of patients who were intubated before we could finish giving report in the ER. With paramedics being limited at what they can do and something around 22 acute care hospitals in the county, IFT companies are generally only a stones throw away from some ER (Since Tustin Medical Center closed down its ER, there aren't really any bad ones either).


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## sethking (Oct 22, 2008)

i work used to work for doctors before i went to an fd. care has really good equipment but really bad employee retention becuase they treat thier employees like crap. shaefeer and mccormick have not heard much about... i would try medix or doctors in south county because they have good equipment and thier compaines are ran better and more organized and employees are paid well and treated better then again unless you work in leisure world you will probaly get 3-6 calls per day


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## jeepdude911 (Jul 22, 2012)

I know I am replying 4 years late, but I just found EMTLIFE. In reply tu Sapphyre, I worked in San Bernardino County both for AMR and SBCoFD and found it to be nothing like you described. The majority of calls I ran for AMR resulted in us being first on, and unless it needed an ALS transport, we most often cancelled fire. I worked for County fire in the Big Bear (Fawnskin) area, and FD personnel staffed the ambulances there. I now work in the Bay Area.


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## RocketMedic (Jul 22, 2012)

I can't believe more of y'all haven't discovered Texas and New Mexico yet. Great living out here.


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## AnthonyM83 (Jul 22, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> Ouch. So, if a nursing home is sending a patient to the emergency room, regardless of the nature of the complaint, they must call 911? Interesting, albeit I can't really say I disagree with it considering some of the patients that I have been called for. Of course I'm sure that the medic/fire fighters are just thrilled with their new call volume.



Naw JP, it's still almost the same. Nursing home to ER is labelled Urgent BLS and the IFT rig responds code 2, then make their transport decision from there.

They had some companies sending private IFT rigs code 3 trying to bypass the 911 system, so they had to rewrite some more policies and put their dispatchers through training classes, to prove they knew what was acceptable to respond to and what wasn't. A lot of private ambulance companies disregard those rules, though.


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