# Cameras in Ambulances?



## RALS504

I have thought about this for a long time. With cop cars getting cameras it is just a matter of time before we get them. I am just curious if they will ever put them in the patient compartment?
Here is the story:
http://www.jems.com/news/276760/


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## YYCmedic

I personally think that cameras, much like the dashboard mounted police cameras, in a patient compartment would help out with the number of EMS lawsuits that all the agencies across North America have been facing lately.  It would be interesting to see the results, if any, from the pilot project that was written about in this article.


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## MMiz

It's just a matter of time before they're in the pt compartment.  Right now some of our rigs have them up front (facing both directions).


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## Epi-do

I wonder how having cameras in the pt compartment would be affected by HIPPA?  I am sure there is information out there about it, but I am feeling a bit lazy at the moment and don't feel like looking for it.  Not asking anyone to do the research for me, just sort of thinking out loud.


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## firecoins

cameras would probably be against Hippa.


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## Guardian

this is going to be a problem, I refuse to take vitals every 15 mins (we don't have nibp's)


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## yowzer

We have DriveCam brand ones mounted on the windshield below the mirror. They have front and back lenses, and are set off by sudden changes in velocity, and the driver gets yelled at if it's something avoidable.

They have a good view into the rear compartment, though you obviously can't see the patient's faces because they face the other way. There have been times I've yelled for my partner to hit the panic button to start recording to cover my heinie.

There's a movie on the supervisor's computer of me flying around when the ambulance got rear-ended while I was in back with a patient. I now ALWAYS wear a seatbelt in back...


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## Ridryder911

HIPPA only is concern with the release of information regarding health care. There are cameras all the time in treatment rooms of pysch wards, surgery areas, etc.. 


R/r 911


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## MMiz

_<moved>_

Rid is correct, and HIPAA doesn't even involve all healthcare providers.  HIPAA only applies to health care providers who compile protected health information *electronically* and bill patients for their services, and their business associates


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## Jon

the article isn't clear... it sounds like the agency might be a dual-role agency, with EMT-P's also being sworn LEO's - because the Sherrif is talking about putting the camera in, and it seems to be a "police-type" camera. (As seen on TV... in "World's Wildest Police Chases 27")

I'm of mixed opinions on cameras in the back of ambulances, the saem as with systemes like DriveCam and RoadSafety. The systems could be used ONLY as a tool for manegment to gather data to punish employees, or they could be used as a way for the providers to be protected in the event of an unjustified lawsuit.


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## Summit

How about the fact that patients might be less willing to tell you things if they are on camera.


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## firecoins

Summit said:


> How about the fact that patients might be less willing to tell you things if they are on camera.



I agree.  

On top of that gathering information from patients is harder.  If a call is filmed and the patient admits to illegal drug use or other illegal activities, can that tape be used as evidence? This may keep patientes from giving us pertinent information needed for treatment because they take the 5th amendment.   We need to gain medical info and not be prevented be legal issues to get it.


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## Airwaygoddess

I feel like HAL is watching me........h34r:


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## Summit

firecoins said:


> If a call is filmed and the patient admits to illegal drug use or other illegal activities, can that tape be used as evidence?



Yea try to convince the high patient that the cops are not going to be able to see the tape... or the scared teenager that their parents can't get the tape.

It's hard enough to convince them you won't tell anyone without a camera recording it too.


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## fm_emt

Or the 5150 patient that absolutely H A T E S the police, but seems to be Ok with you for the time being. Ugh. 

I know that cameras have their place, but I'm kind of getting tired of being on camera *all the time* it seems.


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## Jon

firecoins said:


> I agree.
> 
> On top of that gathering information from patients is harder.  If a call is filmed and the patient admits to illegal drug use or other illegal activities, can that tape be used as evidence? This may keep patientes from giving us pertinent information needed for treatment because they take the 5th amendment.   We need to gain medical info and not be prevented be legal issues to get it.


Well... then you run into HIPPA... and other laws... Is it really any different than what we can do now if we get a statement from the patient?


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## jbrooksEMTangel

Guardian said:


> this is going to be a problem, I refuse to take vitals every 15 mins (we don't have nibp's)


 why wouldnt you do vitals every 15 minutes??? thats what you are supposed to do and it could be a difference in life and death...<_<


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## mfrjason

I believe that if they put cameras anywhere it should be on the dashboard,just like the way the cops have there's set up. It would be a good thing especially if people arent moving out of the way for the ambulance like they should be.


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## Guardian

jbrooksEMTangel said:


> why wouldnt you do vitals every 15 minutes??? thats what you are supposed to do and it could be a difference in life and death...<_<



Cameras are just one more way to control our lives and in this instance, would serve no purpose (especially medical) except to make our lives miserable and be one more bs hoop to jump through.  Vital signs every 15 mins?...for 98% of the bs calls I run, I'm lucky to have my emt take 1 full set and then I just make up the rest.  I know what some of you are thinking (omg, how could he do that, he's going straight to hell, he'll be sued, etc.).  Welcome to the real world.  Installing cameras would help to take away all the shortcuts that make life bearable.

Another little thing thats getting to me...I have to program a person's first and last name, incident number, DOB, SSN, and M/F into the LP12 with that stupid little wheel every time I put someone on the darn thing, anyone else have to do this?..talk about irritating.


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## YYCmedic

> Another little thing thats getting to me...I have to program a person's first and last name, incident number, DOB, SSN, and M/F into the LP12 with that stupid little wheel every time I put someone on the darn thing, anyone else have to do this?..talk about irritating.



No, thank god! I will if I have to print off the entire run report for the hospital but not for any other reason, I feel for you!:wacko:


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## mfrjason

HIPPA is a very big issue with medical boards so I guess it would most likely be up to them if a camera should be mounted in an ambulance or not,cuz you may have a patient that says they used illegal drugs,and they may not even say that knowing that the conversation is being recorded.


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## mfrjason

Under some state laws I do believe that a recorded conversation can be used
be used as evidence against a person,especially if it is not admitted to the police officer but is admitted to an EMT.


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## jrm818

I don't think thats true - I'm pretty sure federal wiretapping regulations are the controlling law here, and they would prohibit any such use of a sound recording.  

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002515----000-.html

_"Whenever any wire or oral communication has been intercepted, no part of the contents of such communication and no evidence derived therefrom may be received in evidence in any trial, hearing, or other proceeding in or before any court, grand jury, department, officer, agency, regulatory body, legislative committee, or other authority of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof if the disclosure of that information would be in violation of this chapter. "_

Note that this only applies to sound recordings however - it hasn't been updated since the advent of videocameras...so video without sound raises no issues (but of course are very unlikely to capture a confession of some sort).

This would also seem to raise a number of confidentiality issues - the doctor/patient privelage is well established, and my understanding is that such a privelage is generally extended to other healthcare providers.  
I am unclear as to whether the healthcare provider themselves can choose to testify to any health-related conversations, but am fairly certian they could not be made to testify.

At any rate, it is far less likely that information given to an EMT as said EMT was in the process of administering care would be admissable as evidence than would a confession made to a police officer, excepting any issues with Miranda warnings, etc.


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## Ridryder911

Couple of things.. wire tapping is an illegal connection of their own private line such as the persons own telephone line. This is not to be confused with videotaping by others by electronic means. Look at store security cameras, police cameras, etc 

Don't think they will make you testify against a patient, you are foolish. You as an EMT do not have the same Doctor -patient privacy act. In fact even physicians even have to divulge information if the court amends it so that it would place the patient or even others in danger. That is why even physicians, psychiatrist and psychologist should tell patients upfront that confidentially can only be held up to the point ; if there appears to be endangerment to others or themselves they will have to divulge the information and take action upon it. 

Moment it is cleared and I summoned by the court, I will testify with all facts. To not do so would be in-contempt, and perjured if not answering truthfully. 

Patient confidentially is where this all this belongs, this is NOT associated with HIPPA or its rulings. HIPPA in fact is not endorsed except to those that do electronic billing. 

R/r 911


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## jrm818

> Couple of things.. wire tapping is an illegal connection of their own private line such as the persons own telephone line.



That's true in that the when one says "wiretapping" they mean to tap a phone line.  But the law that is commonly called the "wiretapping law" (the one I posted above) also prohibits the capture of oral communication, and the use of any such captured information in a courtroom.  

I should have been more clear - such cameras are not "wiretaps," but if they capture sound as well as video are subject to the "Federal wiretapping law" and would probably be illegal, and the sound information could not be used in a court of law.



> This is not to be confused with videotaping by others by electronic means. Look at store security cameras, police cameras, etc



Also true - the wiretapping law does not cover such recordings so long as they do not "intercept" "oral communication."   mfrjason made refrence to a recorded conversation though - which would consist of such an interception of oral communication - and is prohibited.


As for the priveledge stuff - you are correct - there are any number of limitations on the doctor-patient priveledge, and in general these seem to be determined by individual states.  A quick search turned up no relevant case law in terms of applying such a priveledge to other medical providers such as EMT's, but I stumbled over this:

http://healthvermont.gov/hc/ems/march2001.pdf

which suggests that in VT at least, some limited priveledge does exist.
Massachusetts (home for me) seems to only provide priveledge for psychotherapists - I can't find any law granting any privledge at all to doctors.  

In short I should probably not make overreachign generalizations about laws which I haven't taken the time to look up first...:blush:....especially when each of the 50 states are likely to have completely different rules, and federal law may well have something to say as well.  Ultimately this does seem to be a very unsetteled area of law for doctors - nevermind other medical providers - I think i just assumed that such priveledge does exists becasue I happen to think it should....


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## Ridryder911

No problem .. hypothetical situation. You respond to a patient that has a severe laceration, that he reports that he received it when he "raped and murdered" a female. Would you not report or since the statement was under patient confidentially leave it alone ? 

The same as a "dying decree" is very often used in a court of law. It is very confusing and ethical debate. 

I agree personal confidentially is very sacred, but there is a fine line and ethical debate on what items should be divulged.. 

Personally, if it does not regard your care, treatment, and physical finding, I will report it. Such as in child/ adult abuse, violent crimes, spousal abuse.. etc

R/r 911


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## firecoins

I am pretty sure an EMT and Parmedic do in fact fall under the patient-doctor relationship because we are acting under medical control a.k.a the ER doctor.  However the privacy law applies to him it is applied to us in that manner.


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## Ridryder911

Actually, we fall under patient privacy act but not a physician-privacy, since we are not the actual practitioners rather we are only extenders of their care. The same as nurses on the med-surg floor, ICU, lab tech's etc.. everyone  that does not have a license to practice medicine, only operate under the orders of the authorizing physician. 

Once the medical chart has been subpoenaed and warranted, one can as well be subpoenaed as well of the discussion and interaction of a patient. Not cooperating can be interpreted as interference and withholding evidence, and if refused could be held as possible contempt of court. 

One assumes physicians can refuse to discuss patient-client discussion which is a myth. This is one of the t.v. drama's they love to push but actually, once a court has intervened and has a warrant, the physician is suppose to cooperate with authorities. 

Remember there are certain instances that mandated to be reported. Suspected child abuse, violent crimes, communicable diseases etc.. has a mandated reported system, usually falling under the Public Health Law's.

R/r 911


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## firecoins

well a subpoena is different. I wouldn't even think a doctor could refuse that.  

I would assume an EMT can not give pt info to a cop just because the cop asked.  That being said, we work alongside cops who are usually witnesses to everything we do on scene. That pretty much nullifies the privacy from the law anyway while in their presence.


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## jrm818

> You respond to a patient that has a severe laceration, that he reports that he received it when he "raped and murdered" a female. Would you not report or since the statement was under patient confidentially leave it alone ?



Something like that I would have no qualms about reporting (and would have serious qualms about _not_ reporting.  

The information I would be concerned with is exclusively health information - priveledge ought to encourage people to be honest with thier health care provider.  Thus I would (as an EMT, a nurse, or a doctor) have a problem with testifying as to a sub-21 someone's state of intoxication or that they told me they had "x number of drinks" ...or had been smoking weed before thier asthma attack - thats information related directly to the treatment of the patient.  Rape and murder don't count.

And yep - once the supeona comes in, unless you fight it and win, you're testifying.  One would hope, however, that such subpeonas are not given lightly.

Firecoins point does very much interest me.  I agree that legally the priveledge would probably be held to be nullified by the presence of the third person, removing an expectation of privacy.  I have two problems with this, however.
1. Normally the presence of a third person would nullify any privelege.  But if said police officer is a first responder, and responds to a medicall 911 call with the purpose of providing very basic medical care/evaluation - I would consider them ethically (if not legally) no different from responding EMT's (who are, in turn, little or no different than a MD) - they are, at that moment, the health care provider in charge of the care of that patient - and as such I would place the same burden on them to protect patient confidentiality as I would an EMT or a doctor.  

Also, the patient has no way to avoid speaking to the EMT (or the doctor, if, perchance, a doctor responds) in the presence of the police oficer.  It seems to me to be a bad policy to systematically deny the possibility of confidental medical care by sending a police officer to every call.  Could an officer similalrly enter an exam room in a hospital and nullify the doctor-patient priveledge there?  How about the confessional of a church?  

To me the end result is the same: to make patients that much more reluctant to be truthful to their care providers.


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## Ridryder911

I document such statements as admission of alcohol, substance abuse and amount, use or lack of use of restraints in vehicle, etc. I ask (as I should)they report, I document it. This is part of the medical history this could be used as a differential diagnoses on altered LOC or other related medical problems, the same as glucose level, neuro exam's, etc. 

If they are stupid enough to perform such behavior, then one has to be responsible enough to suffer the consequences of such behavior. 

I do take patient confidentially serious, but I am not their priest or do I have a legal binding contract of physician (practitioner) privacy, (as a NP I will have one as a practitioner) but as an EMT or medic only the patient confidentiality laws pertaining such. 

R/r 911


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## Medic's Wife

My husband works for Rural Metro, and they've just had cameras installed in their ambulances.  From what I understand they are activated by irratic driving.  I'm not sure if he's made up his mind whether or not he likes them, but it definitely got me thinking when he told me about them.


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## Stevo

methinks we'd have a grand time mooning the boss....

~S~


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## Airwaygoddess

Stevo said:


> methinks we'd have a grand time mooning the boss....
> 
> ~S~


To the song of "I SEE A BAD MOON A RISING!":lol:  :lol:


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## mfrjason

Ridryder911 said:


> No problem .. hypothetical situation. You respond to a patient that has a severe laceration, that he reports that he received it when he "raped and murdered" a female. Would you not report or since the statement was under patient confidentially leave it alone ?
> 
> The same as a "dying decree" is very often used in a court of law. It is very confusing and ethical debate.
> 
> I agree personal confidentially is very sacred, but there is a fine line and ethical debate on what items should be divulged..
> 
> Personally, if it does not regard your care, treatment, and physical finding, I will report it. Such as in child/ adult abuse, violent crimes, spousal abuse.. etc
> 
> R/r 911



Its hard to say if you would report it or not but your insides would be saying do it cuz you know that he hurt someone and should pay for it.


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## mfrjason

Medic's Wife said:


> My husband works for Rural Metro, and they've just had cameras installed in their ambulances.  From what I understand they are activated by irratic driving.  I'm not sure if he's made up his mind whether or not he likes them, but it definitely got me thinking when he told me about them.


Sounds like they are using them for QA reasons so that they can be used when it comes time for driver training so that way they know what NOT to do.


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## Jon

Sounds like the "DriveCam" system. They've been used to help, and hurt EMT's... they help prove that the ambulance had a GREEN light when they entered the intersection, but they can also prove that the light was RED and the ambulance failed to stop.


As for dying decrees... if a patient makes a statement in the ambulance admitting to a crime, it will probably end up in my chart as a direct quote, because it is unusual for a patient to do that... and that way, it is on a legal document, too.


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## MMiz

A couple of funny DriveCam videos I've seen/heard of from our service:

1.  While not driving code, and only repositioning, EMT goes through a red light, nearly hits a loaded school bus (while on his cell phone), and then has the balls to roll down the window and start yelling at the bus.  The bus calls PD, PD calls the ambulance service, and the service reviews the tape (the thing was set off when he slammed on his brakes to avoid the school bus).  He was fired on the spot.

2.  Ambulance hits a loaded school bus while coding.  It turns out that the school bus was stopped, the EMTs note this, saying "Right clear... left clear.." and you can see it stopped.  Then as they get to the intersection the bus accelerates into the ambulance.  Driver says they had a green while everyone else, including other cars, state bus still has red.  DriveCam proved they had red, stopped at red, and mysteriously started driving again while it was still red.

3.  Crews would drive RIGHT up to a tree, with the bumper just touching it.  Then they'd start yelling, screaming, and waving different things in front of the camera.  One person would yell "OH :censored::censored::censored::censored:, A TREE" while a third person would thump the outside of the ambulance real hard.  It always made us laugh.  Not so much the supervisors though


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## fm_emt

Ridryder911 said:


> Couple of things.. wire tapping is an illegal connection of their own private line such as the persons own telephone line. This is not to be confused with videotaping by others by electronic means. Look at store security cameras, police cameras, etc



This is not the case in many jurisdictions, and I believe ours is one of them. If you're recording someone with a video camera, and you capture *audio* as well, you're in trouble. 

This happened in Florida a few years back. Some guy was secretly videotaping his wife (who was running a brothel) in the act, and he had the microphone on. They ran afoul of Florida's wiretap laws.

Wiretapping can also include emails now. It's a LOT more than "an illegal connection of their own private line" these days.

Thank the "War on Terror" for that.


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## mfrjason

MMiz said:


> A couple of funny DriveCam videos I've seen/heard of from our service:
> 
> 1.  While not driving code, and only repositioning, EMT goes through a red light, nearly hits a loaded school bus (while on his cell phone), and then has the balls to roll down the window and start yelling at the bus.  The bus calls PD, PD calls the ambulance service, and the service reviews the tape (the thing was set off when he slammed on his brakes to avoid the school bus).  He was fired on the spot.
> 
> 2.  Ambulance hits a loaded school bus while coding.  It turns out that the school bus was stopped, the EMTs note this, saying "Right clear... left clear.." and you can see it stopped.  Then as they get to the intersection the bus accelerates into the ambulance.  Driver says they had a green while everyone else, including other cars, state bus still has red.  DriveCam proved they had red, stopped at red, and mysteriously started driving again while it was still red.
> 
> 3.  Crews would drive RIGHT up to a tree, with the bumper just touching it.  Then they'd start yelling, screaming, and waving different things in front of the camera.  One person would yell "OH :censored::censored::censored::censored:, A TREE" while a third person would thump the outside of the ambulance real hard.  It always made us laugh.  Not so much the supervisors though




He got what he deserved. We are not safe from the fields of litigation,and doing something as stupid as what that driver did,especially to a bus loaded with kids. I guess you can also say the driver of the bus was liable too cuz of the fact that he wasnt paying any attention to traffic.


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## 271W4

*The Drivecam*

"The DriveCam system has been installed in all B****** EMS vehicles to identify and improve risky driving behavior. It includes a dual-lens video camera that is mounted to the windshield of the vehicle and records sights and sounds inside and outside the driving compartment of the emergency vehicle. Using an omni-directional, infrared light source, the DriveCam Illuminator shines an invisible light within the vehicle's interior.  The   camera, records a 20-second loop of activity outside the vehicle and in the driver's compartment when activated by a sudden stop, a sharp turn or any other jarring movement. 10-seconds before and 10-seconds after the event that activated the camera.  The camera can also can be turned on manually and will record 20-seconds."

I read this article on a local website and saw it has been installed on almost all of their vehicles.  Hearing how it works is interesting


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## Psyhco.138

In Tallahassee we already have dash mounted cameras in the cabs. I'm don't think they can place cameras in the patent compartment yet. but just give them time.


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## keith10247

Ok,  So I came across this thread and have to comment.  One of the stations in a neighboring county has a camera system installed (I am not sure if it is recorded or not.)  There is a camera mounted on the back of the ambulance to act as a back-up camera and there is another in the PT compartment pointing from front to back on the ceiling.  In the drivers compartment, there is a monitor mounted near where the rear view mirror would be.  The driver has the ability to watch what is going on in the back of the ambulance.  

In a rural station, such as the one I run with, we run minimal staffing on our ambulance (one driver and one EMT.)  While I am a big fan of privacy and what not, I am also a big fan of safety.  When I am driving the ambulance I think it would be great to be able to see what is going on in the back of the ambulance in the event that there is a PT who may all of a sudden become uncooperative.  If I notice that the EMT is in danger, I would be able to look in to the display and make a decision to pull over and assist with restraining or whatever needs to be done.  We do not have a doorway or walkway from the cab to the PT compartment, We only have a small 12 x 24" window 

On the flip side, the screen could become distracting at night but there is a level of training that would have to be accomplished.


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## daemonicusxx

Guardian said:


> this is going to be a problem, I refuse to take vitals every 15 mins (we don't have nibp's)



I think Guardian hit it dead on,The cameras wouldnt be so much for the law suits, just more "big brother" over your shoulder at ALL TIMES. I already get harassed by the FTO's and supervisors as is, last thing i need to do is go into work every morning for a sit down in the "viewing" room. I took a chewing out at a company i used to work for a while back, for sitting in the captains chair on a TXP. Apparantly that wasnt good patient care because you cant see the patient from that seat. 

I'm all for them in the windshield, hell, i want them up front. Cover my behind in an accident. Or even if you witness an "incident" and have enough time to hit the panic button. Now whatever it was is on camera. Not to mention the humor/comical factor. We had one as a trial thing for about a month, im pretty sure it wasnt hooked up, but i got a kick out of whacking that red button everytime my partner said something stupid or gross.


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## Mercy4Angels

we have 2 cameras in our new 07 PL. in the patient compartment over the back doors facing the patient with a screen up front. and another on the back for a back up camera. neither camera records just shows live pictures to the driver.


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## SMC

*Not my emergency*

I'm against cameras.  Defensive driving is the way to go.  We don't need lights an sirens to the calls any way.  To the hospital yes, just to run red lights when you are sure it is clear all the way down the road or the lanes are blocked by stopped cars and you see the others see you.  1 to 5 minutes is not going to make a difference on 98.567 % of your calls.  I understand there are certain situations where a camera would benefit you, but I see it as an extra cost to the already financially struggling system.  Same goes for humidifiers in the truck.  LOL.  Besides if you drive like a bat out of hell with a patient in the back what is your partner going to get done ?

I could go on and on and on and on.

EMT-P


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## Flight-LP

Curious as to where you got your numbers and the belief that emergency warning equipment is not needed.........

I can tell you that without lights and siren, our response time would increase to an unacceptable level, far surpassing an "extra 1 - 5 minutes".


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## SMC

*understood*

I work in Rural county.  Not to many stop lights and lots of highway.  I guess in the bigger cites like Houston where there is a light on every corner the times would be higher of course.   My numbers did not come from any where in particular I made them up.  But they wouldn't be that much higher would they?  What do you think?  10 -15 ?   It all depends on where the call is.


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## Mercy4Angels

your out of your skull if you think lights and sirens arent needed. i run then every call all the time to the scene and to the hospital. ALWAYS lights and siren when i need it to go throught red lights and around people in my way which comes out to everyone. maybe in the backwoods rural states but that wont cut it here in jersey. NY either. and your numbers are WAY off. if we diddnt use lights and sirens our 5 minute ride to the hospital just became 20-25 minutes. ive clocked it. our calls run a minimum of an hour start to finish from the the tim the pager goes off till the time i call back at headquarters clear.

bottom line. you dont need to drive like a moron. i actually and rarely ever even hit the speed limit so my partner and or the medics if i call them can do their job.


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## mfrjason

SMC said:


> I'm against cameras.  Defensive driving is the way to go.  We don't need lights an sirens to the calls any way.  To the hospital yes, just to run red lights when you are sure it is clear all the way down the road or the lanes are blocked by stopped cars and you see the others see you.  1 to 5 minutes is not going to make a difference on 98.567 % of your calls.  I understand there are certain situations where a camera would benefit you, but I see it as an extra cost to the already financially struggling system.  Same goes for humidifiers in the truck.  LOL.  Besides if you drive like a bat out of hell with a patient in the back what is your partner going to get done ?
> 
> I could go on and on and on and on.
> 
> EMT-P



In the county I live in we have a priority dispatching system that when a call comes in and the info is takin by dispatch they let us know if its a priority 1,which means we run lights and sirens all the way to the scene and priority 2, which means we get there as soon as we can but not in emergency status (no lights or sirens).


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## Mercy4Angels

mfrjason said:


> In the county I live in we have a priority dispatching system that when a call comes in and the info is takin by dispatch they let us know if its a priority 1,which means we run lights and sirens all the way to the scene and priority 2, which means we get there as soon as we can but not in emergency status (no lights or sirens).



that shouldnt be up to the dispatcher. go lights and sirens there. if its nothing then take a slow ride to the hospital but at least if it was serious and diddnt sound that way to the dispatcher then you at least got there quick.


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## knxemt1983

Mercy4Angels said:


> that shouldnt be up to the dispatcher. go lights and sirens there. if its nothing then take a slow ride to the hospital but at least if it was serious and diddnt sound that way to the dispatcher then you at least got there quick.


everyone in this area uses the priority system. 
p1 is emergencies such as cp, and sob, MVC, and major trauma, etc

p2 is emergenyies such as seizure (post-dictal), minor MVA (w/fr on scene), etc

p3 is non-emergent 911's, such as mental eval's for pd, stubbed toes, etc

p4 is scheduled transports

also p1, and p2 get an ALS fire engine that can shut the medic down if it's not a legit emergent call. We get alot of p2's that really dont need an emergent response, but we go emerg anyways to err on the side of the pt.


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## Jon

My squad's policy is that we run emergent to the scene except for EDP's, DOA's (unless a "questionable" DOA), Fire Calls that ARE NOT "working fires" as long as there is no reported need for EMS, Medical Alert alarms without a known patient, and "Lift Assists"

Except for the above calls, we run hot to the scene. We almost NEVER transport emergently, as our transport time is usually 5 minutes to the ED anyway.


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## Hockey

Bumping this because I saw someone post some pictures of their new ambulance













http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4297958769792.181910.1311328604&type=3


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## bigbaldguy

WOW that is one sweet ride.


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## xrsm002

The agency I am doing my internship at has a camera in the patient compartment. It's for both the crews and patients protection.


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## Anonymous

wow inside the patient compartment? ours are mounted forward and backward by the rear view mirror and then one on the outside facing behind the ambulance like a back up camera would be, in the patient compartment is nuts...


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## Tigger

Anonymous said:


> wow inside the patient compartment? ours are mounted forward and backward by the rear view mirror and then one on the outside facing behind the ambulance like a back up camera would be, in the patient compartment is nuts...



Why is it nuts to put one in the patient compartment? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear right? I'd love to have one, though my partners that nap in back might not.


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## Tigger

Hockey said:


> Bumping this because I saw someone post some pictures of their new ambulance



Our 911 trucks are nearly identical Demers, they seem to make a pretty user friendly interior.


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## MexDefender

Tigger said:


> If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear right?.



Isn't that how they are justifying all these big brother is watching programs, implementation of spy drones and so fourth... I can see it being used in this setting for it does provide an account of what happened if you fear lawsuits but on a private level like in our personal vehicles or a little drone above my city, No thank you.


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## usalsfyre

MexDefender said:


> Isn't that how they are justifying all these big brother is watching programs, implementation of spy drones and so fourth... I can see it being used in this setting for it does provide an account of what happened if you fear lawsuits but on a private level like in our personal vehicles or a little drone above my city, No thank you.



Spy drones on comparison with pt compartment cameras...wow...

I worked on place that had them in the patient compartment. They were closed circuit, live cameras that didn't record. They were actually fairly useful. DriveCams are a reality. From a management standpoint they make sense. Don't like them? Seek employment elsewhere.There's no constitutional issues, it's not mandated by the government, it's a choice made by a private employer.

This thread is from 2007. I'm curious how many of the participants opinions have changed in the ensuing years.


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## MexDefender

usalsfyre said:


> Spy drones on comparison with pt compartment cameras...wow...
> 
> I worked on place that had them in the patient compartment. They were closed circuit, live cameras that didn't record. They were actually fairly useful. DriveCams are a reality. From a management standpoint they make sense. Don't like them? Seek employment elsewhere.There's no constitutional issues, it's not mandated by the government, it's a choice made by a private employer.
> 
> This thread is from 2007. I'm curious how many of the participants opinions have changed in the ensuing years.



I wouldn't mind them, I worked on camera before at other jobs and it serves its purpose. but I only used the comparison for private (civilian) life.


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## Impulse

It really depends on the state and local laws. Here in Arizona at least 1 person needs to know the conversation is being recorded. So who ever is the pt compartment signed in his job application that he knew he was being recorded. That is all that is needed. The pt is not required to know.

And people need to assume they are always being monitored, at all times. As soon as I submit this, it will be recorded into the NSA database. Which will look for key words. This includes my phone conversations, emails, pretty much everything. Our 4th Amendment was eradicated, and will never return.


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## socalmedic

MexDefender said:


> Isn't that how they are justifying all these big brother is watching programs, implementation of spy drones and so fourth... I can see it being used in this setting for it does provide an account of what happened if you fear lawsuits but on a private level like in our personal vehicles or a little drone above my city, No thank you.



would you like some more tin foil for your hat?


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## MexDefender

socalmedic said:


> would you like some more tin foil for your hat?



:rofl:


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## seniorcareems

*New York ambulance services*

New York ambulances services don't have cameras right now, but they might in the future. All that matters is that you find the best ambulance service NY offers.


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## paramedicjon

*wooot*

Aww no more sex in the  ambulance>


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## traumaluv2011

We have two on our 2007 McCoy Miller F-450 (pictured in my avatar). There is one in the patient compartment and one on the back which is just a backup camera. Neither of them actually record, they are more of a monitor for the driver.


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