# House bill 1010 is drawing mixed reviews from rescue organizations



## Tigger (Feb 3, 2014)

Seems legit...



> A basic-level medical responder is required to complete 63-hours of training, while an EMT must complete a total of 154-hours.
> House bill 1010 is proposing cutting those hours to 40 and 80, respectively.



See more.


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## JPINFV (Feb 3, 2014)

Another awesome article from CallTheCo.. wait... it's a legit news agency.

SON OF A...


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## mycrofft (Feb 3, 2014)

Interesting. Wonder specifically how that will change their scopes?


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## terrible one (Feb 3, 2014)

So volunteers are unable to do the entire 154 hours because it's too much time? Yet they have extra time to go and volunteer if selected? Seems like they just don't want to have to train and instead want to play with lights and sirens.


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 3, 2014)

terrible one said:


> So volunteers are unable to do the entire 154 hours because it's too much time? Yet they have extra time to go and volunteer if selected? Seems like they just don't want to have to train and instead want to play with lights and sirens.




That's how I interpreted it as well.

If you can volunteer your time you have time to go to class two nights a week for a semester.

Changing the length of the course doesn't change access to it...

We sit here and fight to be viewed as professionals and now this? Great. 

Everyone needs to write to their representative a letter against this bill.


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## Rialaigh (Feb 3, 2014)

terrible one said:


> So volunteers are unable to do the entire 154 hours because it's too much time? Yet they have extra time to go and volunteer if selected? Seems like they just don't want to have to train and instead want to play with lights and sirens.



Fire service what? 

:wub:


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## triemal04 (Feb 3, 2014)

Rialaigh said:


> Fire service what?
> 
> :wub:


Right because there aren't any volunteer EMS departments...or "first aid squads" as they are known in a particular state...

The good news is this is a local bill that pertains only to Virginia, and it seems like many people involved in EMS AND fire are against it.

I guess I can see the reasoning behind it though; I mean, it's obvious that human physiology changes when the care provider is a volunteer instead of a paid provider...


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## RescueRider724 (Mar 6, 2014)

I agree, we are a volunteer department here and there are a few guys that should just move on as they refuse to get certified, do continuing education, etc..or cry about it when they have to redo the course because they let their cert lapse.  If you are in a dime you are in a dollar and better make sure you are trained and up to date or you are useless on an actual incident.

I feel it comes from the old fire service dogma of "this is how we have always done it..." I hear that and just cringe. All the blame can not go on the volunteer though, it is also a lack of leadership and expectations.  Your people will live up to the level of excellence you expect of them. I think there should be mandatory levels of training expected of every volunteer with respect to the jobs they are going to perform. Do you want the guy that did a class; which he slept through most of, 10 years ago cutting your wife and kids out of the car? Or do you want the guy that does 1200 hours of training a year and attends up-date classes and is committed to being a professional regardless of pay? 

Ok, I will step off the soap box now....just hit one of those nerves.....


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## TransportJockey (Mar 6, 2014)

JPINFV said:


> Another awesome article from CallTheCo.. wait... it's a legit news agency.
> 
> SON OF A...



Damnit. That was exactly my thinking


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## TransportJockey (Mar 6, 2014)

triemal04 said:


> Right because there aren't any volunteer EMS departments...or "first aid squads" as they are known in a particular state...
> 
> The good news is this is a local bill that pertains only to Virginia, and it seems like many people involved in EMS AND fire are against it.
> 
> I guess I can see the reasoning behind it though; I mean, it's obvious that human physiology changes when the care provider is a volunteer instead of a paid provider...



I'm surprised this isn't being pushed in that particular state.


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## socalmedic (Mar 6, 2014)

JPINFV said:


> Another awesome article from CallTheCo.. wait... it's a legit news agency.
> 
> SON OF A...





TransportJockey said:


> Damnit. That was exactly my thinking



actually this one is legit.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+sum+HB1010


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## EMSComeLately (Mar 6, 2014)

This is not the right direction, at all.  The profession is undercompensated as-is and this lowers an already low barrier to entry.

Additionally, it further pushes for minimal use/extinction of the EMT level of service.

I hope to go on to medic school, but if I can't, I hate to be further minimized which I feel the EMT level is already shunned to a high degree.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 6, 2014)

EMSComeLately said:


> This is not the right direction, at all.  The profession is undercompensated as-is and this lowers an already low barrier to entry.
> 
> Additionally, it further pushes for minimal use/extinction of the EMT level of service.
> 
> I hope to go on to medic school, but if I can't, I hate to be further minimized which I feel the EMT level is already shunned to a high degree.



There honestly should be a push to reduce or eliminate the basic level of certification. I truly wish that something similar to the ILS level would become basic standard of care for EMS


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## EMSComeLately (Mar 6, 2014)

TransportJockey said:


> There honestly should be a push to reduce or eliminate the basic level of certification. I truly wish that something similar to the ILS level would become basic standard of care for EMS



I imagine that this will occur somewhat organically as other legislation moves along like the ACA which tries to divert prehospital care from becoming hospital care if it isn't neccessary.  The CCPs in our area are being given additional training to make more care decisions to prevent unnecessary transports.

Personally, I'm going to keep pushing myself to the highest certifications possible to avoid the inevitable.

Regardless, there is room for different tiers even if there isn't room for all the tiers we have, i.e. EMR, EMT, AEMT, etc.


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## DrParasite (Mar 7, 2014)

TransportJockey said:


> I'm surprised this isn't being pushed in that particular state.


yeah, that particular state just raised the length of their EMT course to 180 hours of classroom time (according to this website  http://www.atlanticambulance.org/newemtbasic.html), to 240 hours (175 classroom and 60 clinical according to this site http://www.camdencc.edu/html/departments/paramedic/emtrain.htm) and 250 hours at Trinitas Hospital http://www.trinitashospital.org/emt_training.asp

It's amazing how you guys have a lot to say when actually knowing nothing about what you are talking about.


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## triemal04 (Mar 7, 2014)

Yeah...you don't even know what your own state is doing, do you?

It's nice that you posted some individual courses that go beyond the minimum requirements but those are just individual course; like these:
http://www.jsumcemt.com/classreg.htm
http://www.delranems.org/index.php?page=Courses
http://www.monoc.org/education/educ...onid=C8D17A2ED44DC9DD32C1D6F38D1B642F.cfusion
Not quite so impressive are they?  Until the state mandates something for everyone, a couple programs don't mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:.

Maybe you should have mentioned that the state of New Jersey just requires that EMT's be eligible and pass the NREMT exam.

Or maybe you'd like to talk about the First Aid Council and First Aid Squads?


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## Tigger (Mar 7, 2014)

Keep it civil.


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## DrParasite (Mar 7, 2014)

triemal04 said:


> Yeah...you don't even know what your own state is doing, do you?


guess not.  I haven't been in a basic EMT course in close to 15 years.... why would I know all the details about the current standards?  I did a quick search and that's what I found (and a call to the DOH didn't help)





triemal04 said:


> It's nice that you posted some individual courses that go beyond the minimum requirements but those are just individual course; like these:
> http://www.jsumcemt.com/classreg.htm


and how many hours does that list? I looked and didn't find anything.....


triemal04 said:


> http://www.delranems.org/index.php?page=Courses


well, that's 200 hours... 


triemal04 said:


> http://www.monoc.org/education/educ...onid=C8D17A2ED44DC9DD32C1D6F38D1B642F.cfusion


that's 200 hours too... You got me skippy, I guess they aren't requiring the clinical time?  and how does that 200 hours compare to other states? 


triemal04 said:


> Not quite so impressive are they?  Until the state mandates something for everyone, a couple programs don't mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:.


I'm sorry, but how many hours of training do EMTs receive in your state?


triemal04 said:


> Maybe you should have mentioned that the state of New Jersey just requires that EMT's be eligible and pass the NREMT exam.


ummm, like many state in the union???


triemal04 said:


> Or maybe you'd like to talk about the First Aid Council and First Aid Squads?


no, my feelings about the First Aid Council haven't changed.  You can do a search and read what I wrote about them before.


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## triemal04 (Mar 7, 2014)

DrParasite said:


> guess not.  I haven't been in a basic EMT course in close to 15 years.... why would I know all the details about the current standards?  I did a quick search and that's what I found (and a call to the DOH didn't help)
> I don't know...because you're making statements that New Jersey is requiring in excess of 200 hours for EMT education when that is patently not true...because it's always a good sign of professional conduct to remain aware of what your state is doing in regards to your profession...stuff like that.
> 
> and how many hours does that list? I looked and didn't find anything.....
> ...


See, we aren't talking about what other states do.  We are talking about a state that has a long and colorful history of volunteer groups attempting to keep the standards low and allowing people with even less (if any) medical training than EMT's respond to 911 calls, as well apparently fighting quite loudly to maintain the status quo.

My original comment alluded that; your response that NJ was actually holding to a higher standard...was not held up by what you posted.


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## DrParasite (Mar 7, 2014)

your wrong, it's 200 for all those listed (all you need to do is count the hours), but I don't argue with people who ignore facts and can't multiply, and like using outdated information to bolster a BS argument.

Call the NJ DOH if you don't believe it, but I'm done with this thread.


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## triemal04 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's probably a good idea for you, being done with this thread.  Could get ugly otherwise.

The first place I linked to (Jersey Shore) runs classes for 3.5 hours on some weekdays and 8.5 hours on some Saturdays.  They meet for 27 weekdays (which includes the "graduation") and 4 Saturdays.  Go ahead and do the math since I must have got it wrong.  If anyone wants to check it's all in the class schedule.

The next place I linked (Delran) actually might be 200 hours; Delran lists the class meets for 8 hours while the NJ state website lists the class as only meeting for 6...since neither of us know which is acurate, I guess you can have that one...

And then there's MONOC...which very clearly meets for only 157 hours.  

Of course, all the wonderful places have to meet the strict NJ state requirement of 10 hours of clinicals, which, in all honesty is redundant to the whole point which is that NJ has a great history of attempting to keep the bar for the minimum standards for volunteers very low.

The only real "requiremts" that NJ has for EMT's is that they meet NREMT standards...no more, and thankfully no less.

I found all that out in roughly 7 minutes of googling...you live and work in New Jersey, right?  Why don't you know what your own state is doing and requiring in regards to EMS education, and why do you insist on ignoring reality?

Edit:  And as far as "outdated" info...those numbers came from the current class schedules.  Face, you're just wrong.


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