# London Ambulance Service recruiting 250 medics from overseas



## ExpatMedic0

I am not a POC, just sharing the information. Normally the UK is not offering work visas for foreign paramedics that I am aware of. So this could be a cool opportunity to look into for those who are interested. 

http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/news/news_releases_and_statements/recruit_overseas_paramedics.aspx


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## dutemplar

Aye, regrettably they seem hot for Australian/ New Zealand with matchin style degrees.  That would be "game on" in a heartbeat!


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## ExpatMedic0

from my understanding, if your NREMT and have work experience, you can get HCPC in the UK. The issue is getting a work visa, which is not normally allowed for paramedics. Until now that is....


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## dutemplar

One way to find out!  I just dropped them an email asking about US recruiting and qualifications.  I will, of course, post their reply.

I so very want out of for-profit in the DC/Baltimore area.  London does sound refreshing, and a lot better scotch supply than the sandbox.  Fiancée travel, no problem.


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## dutemplar

*Their reply*

d Morning David

Thank you for your e-mail. In order to apply for Paramedic position, first you 
will need to check that the qualifications you currently have are valid for our 
organisation.  Therefore you will need to contact Health and Care Professionals Council http://www.hpc-uk.org/apply/international/.  

If your qualifications are valid and compatible to ours, you would then be able to apply to the London Ambulance Service to work as a registered paramedic. The current advert is closing on 14 Mar 2014 but we will continue recruiting throughout this year.  More information regarding international candidates is coming soon thus please keep an eye on our website. 

Please visit the London Ambulance Service website www.londonambulance.nhs.uk and www.jobs.nhs.uk regularly to view and apply for vacancies that interest you. You may also create an account on NHS Jobs and set up e-mail job alerts to keep up with the latest vacancies from our Service.

Thank you for your interest shown in working for the London Ambulance Service.

Kind Regards

Michelle Small

Michelle Small
Recruitment Administrator

HR Directorate | London Ambulance Service NHS Trust |Recruitment Centre |Units 1 
& 2 |Datapoint Business Centre |6 South Crescent |London|E16 4TL | 
Tel: 02030690255 (internal: 130263) |Fax: 020 3069 0266        

W: http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk
 P Please consider the environment before printing this email.


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## Handsome Robb

Hmmmmmmm


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## Jon

The standards link is here: http://www.hcpc-uk.org/publications/standards/index.asp?id=48
20 page document. Doesn't seem really difficult. There's the issue of a college degree, though.


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## ExpatMedic0

I can't say for sure, as I am not an expert on the HCPC, but from my understanding a degree is not always required, furthermore "recognition of prior learning" aka work experience, often counts towards some of the UK degree programs I have seen to bridge diploma providers(which still exist everywhere in the UK). I spoke to a UK paramedic the other day who holds HCPC and NREMT which is where I am getting my information from. 



Jon said:


> The standards link is here: http://www.hcpc-uk.org/publications/standards/index.asp?id=48
> 20 page document. Doesn't seem really difficult. There's the issue of a college degree, though.


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## TransportJockey

I must say, the idea of working as a London medic is very appealing


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## MaverickMedic

Hi All,

Found this post today an thought I would join the forum in case I can help anyone.

I have worked for the LAS for some time. I'm a registered paramedic in the UK (I'm british and I trained here).

If you have questions about either the LAS or being a UK paramedic in general, please feel free to ask.

Someone has already posted a link to the HCPC (the paramedic regulator in the UK) website. You might also find the College of Paramedics useful. They are the professional body for paramedics in the UK and have some information about training and education standards (although that mainly applies to new registrants). I can't post a link, but Google should help.


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## WTEngel

Wow! That's really great that we have someone from LAS! Welcome...

I have a few questions.

Why is there such a push for international recruitment right now? Why are there not enough UK nationals eligible or applying?

As far as training, there are not that many 4 year degree programs specifically for paramedicine here in the US. Is NREMT-P along with a bachelor's degree (4 years) in biology or other related science enough to suffice?

Anyway, I don't really know why I am asking, other than morbid curiosity. There's no way I could do it right now...but it is always nice to have options...

Oh and one other thing! How do you get to be one of the medics on the BMW motorcycles? That might just be the selling point for me!


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## dutemplar

Agreed WT,
I have about 70 credits towards a degree, NREMTP plus CCEMTP and a whole host of other letters, but...

From what I see,
We spend $700 to apply for the license.  Of we get it, then apply for the job.  If accepted, we then pay to fly over, rent an apartment, move, aaaaand this isn't seeming very cost effective up front.  I didn't get into EMS for
riches, but at 43 need to consider squirreling away for retirement...  Sounds like a grand adventure if I was 20 years younger and could front a few grand.

If I'm wrong, let me know... I'd apply next payday
for the license!


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## ExpatMedic0

haha, I think LAS recruitment found out this was happening the same time as we did. Here is the email I got from them a few days ago

_"Thank you for your email, this is correct regarding International applicants, however, we are still waiting updates on this recruitment. An HCPC certificate would confirm your qualifications are transferable, but visit our website www.londonambulance.nhs.uk for updates as to what you would need to do.

*Apologies if this is a vague reply, but we know very little about the process right now.*

Thank you for your interest in the London ambulance service"_


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## ExpatMedic0

MaverickMedic said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Found this post today an thought I would join the forum in case I can help anyone.
> 
> I have worked for the LAS for some time. I'm a registered paramedic in the UK (I'm british and I trained here).
> 
> If you have questions about either the LAS or being a UK paramedic in general, please feel free to ask.



Hey Maverick,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to come on here and try to answer some questions. Do you guys have any Americans in your system at the moment? Any idea how our national body (NREMT) and your national body (HCPC) conduct an international reciprocity, and if we are required to have a bachelors degree to work for LAS? Many paramedics in the USA only hold a diploma or an associates degree, although a small number of us do have a bachelors.


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## dutemplar

*Apologies if this is a vague reply, but we know very little about the process right now.*

This looks a lot like they were visited by the Good Idea Fairy...


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## MaverickMedic

WTEngel said:


> Wow! That's really great that we have someone from LAS! Welcome...


Thanks!



> Why is there such a push for international recruitment right now? Why are there not enough UK nationals eligible or applying?


To be honest, I'm not sure why it has happened now. LAS has always seemed to me to have a high turn-over of staff. It has links to more universities than other trust, so we get quite a few people train with us, stay a few years then move on.

It could also be a knock-on effect of increasing the education for paramedics. My own view is that we have introduced degrees for paramedics (which is a very good thing in my opinion), but the career and jobs available have not kept up. Lots of graduates stay for a while, then realise that the job doesn't really match up to their expectations. This is changing, slowly. Many trusts now have more senior roles for paramedics which increase responsibility, but it is too early to tell if this is helping with staff retention.

We have got a fairly new chief executive, so that might have something to do with it too.



> As far as training, there are not that many 4 year degree programs specifically for paramedicine here in the US. Is NREMT-P along with a bachelor's degree (4 years) in biology or other related science enough to suffice?


I wouldn't expect a degree to be a requirement. The key thing would be getting HCPC registration. Once you have that, you're legally a paramedic. The only way I could see a degree being important would be selecting between applicants, and then I expect any relevant degree would help.


> Oh and one other thing! How do you get to be one of the medics on the BMW motorcycles? That might just be the selling point for me!


You have to have been in the service for a while, and have considerable riding experience. You then have to wait for a opening (can't remember the last time one was advertised). You then get sent on an advanced riding course with the police motorcyclists. I agree, it would be an awesome job; but I never learned to ride a motorbike.



> Do you guys have any Americans in your system at the moment?


Not that I know of. Well, not that trained in America.


> Any idea how our national body (NREMT) and your national body (HCPC) conduct an international reciprocity


I don't know the details, but in general they would compare the training and experience that you have against the standards for paramedics in the UK. They are published on their website (I'll post a link when I have enough posts!) I don't know exactly how they work out the equivalence of training, but they ask for as much detail as you can give, so I assume they take experience into account. If anyone is actually going to try it, I would suggest getting the standards and giving an example of how you meet each one. Might take some work, but probably gives the best chance.


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## MaverickMedic

ExpatMedic0 said:


> Hey Maverick,
> and if we are required to have a bachelors degree to work for LAS? Many paramedics in the USA only hold a diploma or an associates degree, although a small number of us do have a bachelors.



At the moment, the minimum _requirement_ is for a certificate of higher education, which is essentially one year at university. Most people, however, have a DipHE or foundation degree (equivalent to an associates degree). This will become the minimum as of next year.

The College of Paramedics have recommended that from 2019 new registrants will require a bachelors degree. I expect that recommendation will be adopted, but that isn't official yet.

I don't know what impact this would have on international registrants, as I believe they consider experience as well as basic training.


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## Handsome Robb

Why does this have to happen when I'm broken and probably going to need surgery?

I'd be out of here in a heartbeat to go to the UK or AUS or NZ to work on the ambulance.


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## Scott33

As someone who has a reasonable grasp of the both the US and UK systems…a few points.

1.	One of the main differences between UK and US EMS is that of clinical autonomy. UK paramedics do not operate under a doctor's credentials. They have no medical control. Period. Each UK paramedic works under his / her own license and as such, is completely responsible for the patient(s) in their care. As you can imagine, this can be a good or a bad thing. In many cases, they are responsible for the purchase and storage of controlled drugs - on or off the clock. The Australian and NZ (as well as many other) systems mirror the UK in that they operate under their own license.

2.	Each foreign applicant will still be required to register with the HCPC prior to commencing employment. As mentioned, each application will be judged on an individual basis and you will either check all the required boxes, or you won't. You have the right to appeal the decision and the right to re-apply (for an additional $700). I don't believe the LAS will, or indeed can, assist with this part of the process.

3.	Most paramedic schools in the UK are indeed diploma / degree-based. However, currently neither are required in order to register with the HCPC. The Scottish ambulance service for example, is still using a more traditional modular in-house method to train its paramedics, though I believe there are uni credits awarded. It's no secret that it is only a matter of time before the whole UK requires at least a diploma for practice.

4.	Alternative care pathways / treat and release / treat and refer etc is the norm in many UK systems. One of the aces up their sleeves IMO. They really can leave a lot of people at home if they so chose (again, 'they'). Non-conveyance figures of  >50% are not unheard of and given that there is no such thing as medical billing, turning the wheels makes no odds financially. 

5.	Same :censored::censored::censored::censored: different continent. You will still get your drunks, fakers, and BS jobs. It should also be known that assault on UK NHS staff is particularly common. 

The deal-breaker for US paras to work in a foreign country was always going to be the visa. Now that this is not an issue in this particular situation, I can only wish whomever choses to apply for it the very best of luck.


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## ExpatMedic0

For paramedic staffing on the ambulance in LAS, is it double paramedic units, or 1 EMT and 1 Paramedic?


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## MaverickMedic

ExpatMedic0 said:


> For paramedic staffing on the ambulance in LAS, is it double paramedic units, or 1 EMT and 1 Paramedic?



It varies. A standard permanent crew is 1 paramedic with 1 EMT.

There are also double "EMT" crews (actually called A&E support staff) that will do admissions by Drs or non-emergency transport to the ED after a rapid response paramedic has seen them and deemed it safe.

Double paramedic crews are not uncommon if someone (or both) are on overtime or don't have permanent crew mates and they've been paired up for that shift.


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## MaverickMedic

Scott33 said:


> As someone who has a reasonable grasp of the both the US and UK systems…a few points.
> 5.	Same :censored::censored::censored::censored: different continent. You will still get your drunks, fakers, and BS jobs. It should also be known that assault on UK NHS staff is particularly common.



Scott33 makes a good point, I imagine a lot of the day-to-day work is very similar where ever you do it. I have worked in several UK services and know that's true here.

Out of curiosity, what is it about LAS (or the UK in general) that appeals to you as US paramedics?


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## Handsome Robb

I know some places in the UK you might actually be alone on the unit. If you get something critical you get a fly car or another unit to help otherwise you do absolutely everything including driving and patient care. That's how I thought I understood this UK paramedic I was talking to.


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## MaverickMedic

Robb said:


> I know some places in the UK you might actually be alone on the unit. If you get something critical you get a fly car or another unit to help otherwise you do absolutely everything including driving and patient care. That's how I thought I understood this UK paramedic I was talking to.



I don't know of anywhere that would routinely deploy a single-manned emergency ambulance. I have known of someone respond on their own in an ambulance when they were the only unit available. They were rapidly backed up by a fully crewed unit. As far as I know, this was exceptional.

We do have the "Patient Transport Service", which used to be NHS but now is frequently contracted to the private sector, that are often a single person. They do admissions and transport to outpatient appointments for people who can mobilise themselves but just need a lift. There is also a double-crewed version that can handle wheelchair or stretcher patients who, again, only need transport without clinical care. Although they are technically ambulances, they are not really anything to do with emergency care.

We also have rapid response units. These are single person cars targeted at arriving first at critical calls or providing paramedic support to units already on-scene with a critical problem. Essentially what I gather you call fly cars or sprint cars in the USA. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never actually seen one of your ambulance cars.)

Some trusts also have single person response to low-risk calls (minor injuries/minor illness etc) with a view towards preventing an ED attendance. Generally a separate dedicated unit (ECP or PP) or but sometimes all the RRUs will do this, depending on the trust.


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## Handsome Robb

Ah gotcha, I must've misunderstood her. I know she does EMS not patient transport. 

She may not work for the LAS either, I'll have to ask her. 

It didn't make much sense to me...I can do a lot by myself but there's a lot of things that take more than one person too.


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## Jon

MaverickMedic said:


> Out of curiosity, what is it about LAS (or the UK in general) that appeals to you as US paramedics?



I think it's a combination of things... pay and respect are big ones.


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## ExpatMedic0

MaverickMedic said:


> Out of curiosity, what is it about LAS (or the UK in general) that appeals to you as US paramedics?


I back packed through the UK for a few months, had a great time, especially in London. The only reason I am interested in LAS is because its open to non-EU Paramedics. The work visa has always been an issue. Its more the location than the ambulance service.


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## dutemplar

ExpatMedic0 said:


> I back packed through the UK for a few months, had a great time, especially in London. The only reason I am interested in LAS is because its open to non-EU Paramedics. The work visa has always been an issue. Its more the location than the ambulance service.



Agree, location and a bit of adventure.  Work isn't work when it's a living vacation and interesting.  Now, my backpacking was for the army so not as enjoyable a tour, but have met a lot of interesting people from England.  One vacation in the UK and a working vacation some years later were great and I did enjoy the area quite a bit.  I'd love to go back, especially to be paid to go back!

I'm not quite as sure about the cost of going back, factoring in registration, moving expenses, travel, lodging being a lot of "up front" costs.  

For me, an interesting city, a bit of adventure. For my fiancée, an overseas place she can enjoy more than a sandbox with day trips to check out her coswald cottages and antiques.

I would trade you London for Washington DC in a heartbeat.

EMS is EMS is EMS...


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## ExpatMedic0

dutemplar said:


> I would trade you London for Washington DC in a heartbeat.
> 
> EMS is EMS is EMS...


Ya I was in Baltimore and DC for last years CCEMT-P at UMBC, I don't blame you!


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## WTEngel

Shall we start working on our cockney accents Expat? I do believe this could be chapter 2 of our saga...the Sheiks of London!!!


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## SandpitMedic

I don't want to assume by reading between the lines, so who is actually in the process or planning to formally apply?

Keep us updated on the details. I am sure more questions will arise.


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## MaverickMedic

dutemplar said:


> I would trade you London for Washington DC in a heartbeat.



Funnily enough, I'm coming to Washington DC for a month in April. I'm visiting the MedSTAR hospital trauma unit.

Is there anyone has any pointers for visiting, please let me know!


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## Jon

MaverickMedic said:


> Funnily enough, I'm coming to Washington DC for a month in April. I'm visiting the MedSTAR hospital trauma unit.
> 
> Is there anyone has any pointers for visiting, please let me know!



Well... I spend some time playing Volunteer FF in suburban DC (MD).... Hit me up when you're in town, I'll gladly buy you a beer and swap war stories!


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## dutemplar

MaverickMedic said:


> Funnily enough, I'm coming to Washington DC for a month in April. I'm visiting the MedSTAR hospital trauma unit.
> 
> Is there anyone has any pointers for visiting, please let me know!



Living in Baltimore, work in NE DC.  As Jon said, drop a line and we'll figure something out.


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## dutemplar

SandpitMedic said:


> I don't want to assume by reading between the lines, so who is actually in the process or planning to formally apply?
> 
> Keep us updated on the details. I am sure more questions will arise.



Today, I don't have the $ to front applying. The $700 for registration would be tight, let alone all of the other costs (moving, renting,...). If they even had barracks or dorm lodging, while new ball game.


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## Scott33

dutemplar said:


> Today, I don't have the $ to front applying. The $700 for registration would be tight, let alone all of the other costs (moving, renting,...). If they even had barracks or dorm lodging, while new ball game.




Not to mention the additional 4 or 5 grand for your C1 / D1 license. Mandatory for working for the NHS.


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## SandpitMedic

4 or 5 grand?!?! What?!... Holy blindside. 

No one is going to do that. Is that factual? Link?


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## MaverickMedic

Scott33 said:


> Not to mention the additional 4 or 5 grand for your C1 / D1 license. Mandatory for working for the NHS.





SandpitMedic said:


> 4 or 5 grand?!?! What?!... Holy blindside.
> 
> No one is going to do that. Is that factual? Link?



Only C1 should be required for and A&E job. C1 covers a vehicle up to 7.5 tons. D1 is for vehicles with 8-15 seats, so essentially mini-busses. Ambulances are C1 category vehicles. Not sure what the costs are, but it certainly wasn't that much when I did it (years ago, however). I'll see if I can find a price and post it later.

Historically, ambulance services _did_ require D1 when patient transport was also part of the job. Lots of admissions and discharges are done by minibus.


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## Scott33

MaverickMedic said:


> Not sure what the costs are, but it certainly wasn't that much when I did it (years ago, however). I'll see if I can find a price and post it later.



Bear in mind though that someone who holds a US driving license (of any class) cannot exchange it for a UK one. Therefore, they will have the additional costs of theory & practical tuition / exams for their ordinary car license. 

This is not the case with those who hold a license from Australia, NZ, and Canada who can exchange them with minimal fuss and, I believe, a fee of 50 GBP.


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## SandpitMedic

I hate to burst bubbles, but I'm not so sure they truly desire us yank NR-Ps. Otherwise why make so many complications for us as opposed to the Aussies and others who can just practically dive right in, in comparison? Now we're talking fronting more dough and more unpaid time; essentially having more hoops for a DL if you're from the US. 

At face value it looks like all are encouraged to apply, but just under that it seems they are seeking and truly desire those other candidates from across the ponds. 

The Londoner himself said no Americans (trained in American EM) are working there, and it doesn't seem that any have in the past seeing how many hoops there are. 

I would think that much like any other organization that has critical personnel needs they would streamline the process as opposed to the "run around" it appears to be.

Just calling it as I see it. I'd love to be proved wrong though; solid opportunity I'd love to have.


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## TransportJockey

SandpitMedic said:


> I hate to burst bubbles, but I'm not so sure they truly desire us yank NR-Ps. Otherwise why make so many complications for us as opposed to the Aussies and others who can just practically dive right in, in comparison. Now were talking fronting dough and time essentially having more hoops for a DL is you're from the US.
> 
> At face value it looks like all are encouraged to apply, but just under that it seems they are seeking and truly desire those other candidates from across the ponds.
> 
> The Londoner himself said no Americans (trained in American EM) are working there, and it doesn't seem that any have in the past seeing how many hoops there are.
> 
> I would think that much like any other organization that has critical personnel needs they would streamline the process as opposed to the "run around" it appears to be.
> 
> Just calling it as I see it. I'd love to be proved wrong though; solid opportunity I'd love to have.



I think a big part of that would be how poorly trained US paramedics are compared to other Commonwealth countries


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## Scott33

TransportJockey said:


> I think a big part of that would be how poorly trained US paramedics are compared to other Commonwealth countries



I wouldn't necessarily say poorly trained - perhaps poorly educated. Certainly, the US seems to take pride in doing things its own way compared to many of the first world commonwealth countries, and healthcare as a whole is a glaring example of this.

Still, a move which I have always believed to be impossible for US paras is now no longer so in this particular instance. It may just take a lot of groundwork, a reasonable amount of money, and a little luck.


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## TransportJockey

Scott33 said:


> I wouldn't necessarily say poorly trained - perhaps poorly educated. Certainly, the US seems to take pride in doing things its own way compared to many of the first world commonwealth countries, and healthcare as a whole is a glaring example of this.
> 
> Still, a move which I have always believed to be impossible for US paras is now no longer so in this particular instance. It may just take a lot of groundwork, a reasonable amount of money, and a little luck.



That is what I meant. Thank you for catching that. I'm gonna go to sleep now lol.
And I would love to be able to do this.


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## SandpitMedic

Shots fired!

You guys mean we are not trained to the max?! Gaff! 

Lol, while I agree with your honesty that may strike a few chords. I am in the camp of progressives who desire higher medical education standards for Paramedics and more stringent certification (or better licensure) processes.

King County should be the national standard.

'MERICA!


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## TransportJockey

SandpitMedic said:


> Shots fired!
> 
> You guys mean we are not trained to the max?! Gaff!
> 
> Lol, while I agree with your honesty that may strike a few chords. I am in the camp of progressives who desire higher medical education standards for Paramedics and more stringent certification (or better licensure) processes.
> 
> King County should be the national standard.



Dude, if you read my posts around here and other places you'll know I agree. Not quite for King County, but I agree that we need better and higher education in this field. And I've been around here long enough to not care who I might piss off, mods and admins included


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## SandpitMedic

I know brother, just giving you a hard time. 

It's the truth.


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## dutemplar

I'd love to... Even breaking even, but this looks like a lose-lose with me paying to work.  

US has geared towards certification and function, as compared to degrees.  No excuse nowadays that medic shouldn't be a two year degree... Although that would take three years to accomplish all the material.  Most medics aren't paid enough to make a bachelors worth it at $9-$12/hr...

Medic for hire, will travel!  Learn language basics quickly, am house trained and don't bite!


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## EagleMedic

I did some ride outs with LAS a few years ago, and it is true EMS is EMS everywhere; of course every place is different and will have its discrepancies on how we do things in our home system; I've learned that while flying around the world as a flight medic.

I think London is very interesting as many other large metropolis, and can assure you if you love what you do, it will pay off, but if you're willing to take an easy job and get paid to sleep, you are looking to the wrong system. We ran an average of 10-12 calls in a 12 hr shift; in fact, we never made it back to the station after our first call and until the rest of the shift. Some of us are used to it and will not be an issue, but I strongly recommend to self evaluate our interests before spending time, money and resources.

I have e mailed the HCPC to assure the documents, letters and signatures are the right ones before I submit my paperwork packet. If anyone out there is working on it will appreciate any advise or suggestion. I'll give it a try, I'll be sharing any useful information as soon as I can.


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## ExpatMedic0

EagleMedic said:


> I have e mailed the HCPC to assure the documents, letters and signatures are the right ones before I submit my paperwork packet. If anyone out there is working on it will appreciate any advise or suggestion. I'll give it a try, I'll be sharing any useful information as soon as I can.


Keep us up to date on that. I plan on submitting my paperwork to the HCPC also, but not for a month or two.


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## Scott33

Good luck to you both. It would be interesting to read about the progress you make with your applications.


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## denisjf

*Applying from Canada to LAS*

Hi am thinking about applying to LAS as well. 

I have been working as a Primary Care Paramedic in Ontario for 2 years and did try and apply thought the online process. I received and email asking me to  check the requirements and review the job description/person specification. 
I was also asked to check and verify that the qualifications I currently hold are valid in the UK through the HCPC. 

I have emailed the HCPC asking to send me details on what the process is/ how to go about validating/ transferring my certification. 

The news article specified they are looking at paramedics from Aus and NZ but didnt mention Canada. 
Im wondering if anyone has tried to apply from Canada, or if there are any Canadian paramedics currently working in the UK that can share their experience of the process Or if anyone has any info that will help. 

Denis


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## denisjf

Just curious as to what kind of paperwork you have to submit to the HCPC


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## Scott33

Everything you need for your initial application can be found on the HCPC website under the international applicant section.

http://www.hcpc-uk.org/apply/international/

The application form is here (note it is changing after April 1st) -  

http://www.hcpc-uk.org/apply/international/forms/

The standards of proficiency, which your application will be judged against, is here - 

http://www.hcpc-uk.org/assets/documents/1000051CStandards_of_Proficiency_Paramedics.pdf

Please don't skim over the last link. It is probably the best guide for your application, and should serve as a template for the wording of your work history, clinical experience, personal statement etc. For arguments sake, just assume that the HCPC has no clue what is involved with North American paramedic credentialing. You (and your professional reference) will be expected to provide _evidence_ that you meet all the standards of proficiency - not just merely state that you do.


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## denisjf

Thanks Scott33


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## jaysonsd

Dredging this up as I look around.  I'm working with a UK medic onboard that says the program is still ongoing.  A quick check shows they're courting NZ paramedics.  Anyone here ever take on the program and make it out?


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## ExpatMedic0

I just read in EMSworld that they are sending recruitment teams down to Australia.


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## Scott33

There definitely seems to be more of an interest in hiring from Australia than any other country.


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## ILemt

What is so great about Australia vs NZ, Canada ?


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## SandpitMedic

ILemt said:


> What is so great about Australia vs NZ, Canada ?


Sounds like a question you should call and ask them directly.


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## ILemt

I don't think I could afford a transatlantic phone call.


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## Scott33

SandpitMedic said:


> What is so great about Australia vs NZ, Canada ?



Certain parts of Australia will probably mirror the UK EMS model more than the other countries you mention. Probably less of a hassle to transfer credentials.


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## Clare

Looks very similar to New Zealand in many ways. 

I think the cost of living in London is much higher?

I had a look at JRCALC and it looks like ICPs in NZ can do more than a Paramedic in the UK?

There was no mention of ... 

- Adenosine 
- Cardioversion
- Pacing
- Ketamine
- Rapid sequence intubation
- Routine post intubation sedation and paralysis 
- Sedation/procedural anaesthesia
- Prednisone 
- Loratadine
- Clopidogrel 
- Tramadol (although it did mention oramorph so near enough ... if not better!)


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## ukparamedic

There is a new role in LAS called Advanced Paramedic Practitioner.

They carry Ketamine amongst some other advanced drugs, and I believe they're able to RSI if required. They also have ultrasound scanners for looking at the heart for things like tamponade and signs of occlusion etc... They have a lot of other training too and equipment but I can't think of it from the top of my head.

They're dispatched usually either by crew request, or by another APP in the control room who monitors incoming jobs for anything they might be of use for. They've only been around for a couple of months but generally they will attend most cardiac arrests without the crew asking for it, if they're available.

Tramadol has recently become a Schedule 3 designated drug from 10th June 2014 in the UK, but then again as you said we have Oramorph and the need for tramadol isn't really that great...

We use Aspirin instead of Clopidogrel

Not allowed to do external pacing and cardioversion as of yet, although again I believe the APP's can pace (???)

We have Amiodarone, no Adenosine.

We have Dexamethasone, no Prednisolone.

We also have IV Paracetamol for analgesia in addition to Morphine, and Tranexamic Acid for Catastrophic Haemorrhage. These are relatively new for LAS.

I believe our HR/Recruitment is travelling to Aus in September to begin the process.


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## ukparamedic

Scott33 said:


> Not to mention the additional 4 or 5 grand for your C1 / D1 license. Mandatory for working for the NHS.



It is not 4 or 5 grand as you put it, I gained all my C1 training and the test itself for £800...


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## ukparamedic

Also anybody considering applying for this post, I suggest PM'ing to ask some questions.


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## jaysonsd

Gonna PM you today ukparamedic.


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## jaysonsd

ukparamedic said:


> Also anybody considering applying for this post, I suggest PM'ing to ask some questions.


 
I just tried to PM you, said you couldn't accept messages.


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## Scott33

ukparamedic said:


> It is not 4 or 5 grand as you put it, I gained all my C1 training and the test itself for £800...



I believe I already addressed this earlier.



Scott33 said:


> Bear in mind though that someone who holds a US driving license (of any class) cannot exchange it for a UK one. Therefore, they will have the additional costs of theory & practical tuition / exams for their ordinary car license.


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## ukparamedic

jaysonsd said:


> I just tried to PM you, said you couldn't accept messages.


Have you got a Skype or an email address you wouldn't mind putting up so I can add you ?


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## ukparamedic

Actually I've changed my preferences so I should be able to receive messages nownow


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## kevoiddy

Does it not worry any of you that they are recruiting abroad? LAS has such a high turnover of staff because paramedics are being overworked and feel undervalued. Yes LAS is the busiest ambulance service in the world, but I would not say the best in the United Kingdom. There are many other trusts who out-perform LAS and have more autonomous Paramedics. EAST work around the outskirts of London and often get called into London jobs and you can expect better management. Personally I would think twice before applying to LAS, and I can't see why someone with a great lifestyle and very good weather in Oz would come to London and pay through the roof for accommodation and not be beside the sea.


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## Scott33

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...medics-attacked-each-week-london-9732568.html


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## irishboxer384

The issue is people leaving the national health service to work as private paramedics...all the students who have shiny new degrees put in their time at college...then as soon as they can go private they are off...and i dont blame them...turning up to calls with a private service where they are on 3 times the pay for doing the same job....


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## Scott33

I think that may be the exception rather than the rule. Whereas it may be true there are numerous PAS providers, I would hesitate to say that they typically pay 3 times the NHS salary. Not to mention they won't offer the pretty lucrative pension, holiday allowance, 6 months sick pay etc. it also has to be said that few PAS providers are doing true frontline 999 emergency work, so the paras who have jumped ship may have to be content with dialysis runs, discharges, and doctors urgents. All that crap - minus the benefits - and they still have the same HCPC to satisfy. It has to be said however, that most PAS staff will not be paras, with FPOS being the industry standard.

As it would appear, many staff are leaving the LAS, but I think it's more commonly going to be a case of moving  trust and staying working the NHS. There is also a huge interest in working abroad.


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