# Do all Paramedics Think they know all???



## trauma1534 (Nov 16, 2006)

This is sort of a continuation to the other discussion with similar topic name.  I would just like to add my view on this.  I didn't not read all of the posts under that topic, however, I can add my view on the original post. 

No, not all paramedics are "Know all, end all".  I have ran into quite a few "paragod's".  I come from a department where that seems to be a trend.  My advice is, be better than them.  They will fail.  I didn't become a good seasoned provider by comming from a department where there was none of that, it was the exact oposite.  I came from a department where there was much compitition.  The medics back in the day there, where not so "paragodish".  However, there was a great race between all of us to be better then the provider next to us.  That my friend is what made us.  We have all since gone on to do bigger and better things from that era of time.  We call ourselves the "originals" (tougue in cheek).  The ones there now, have the attitude that they are much better than anything else in EMS.  I get a thrill out of prooving them wrong.  People like that will hang themselves.  Get it into your head that you will be the best in the department.  If you are an EMT-B, then you will be the best damn EMT-B they have.  Remember this... a paramedic is not a paramedic without the EMT.  They were all BLS before ALS.  They can't even practice without an EMT-B min. on the truck in our state.  I am ALS myself and I don't think of myself higher than anyone.  I just make it my mission to be the very best of the best and then make the best better.  Take on that attitude and it will take you far.  Don't get mad, just prove them wrong.  Learn all you can, and outsmart them.  It can happen.  I take pride in that very thing.  There is nothing no better than making a know it all paramedic look like an idiot because they think they are all that, and don't know the basics.


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 16, 2006)

I don't know everything. I only know how to look it up, and ask questions. Everyone's cert. says EMT. No matter if you are a basic, enhanced, intermedite, or Paramedic.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Nov 16, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Remember this... a paramedic is not a paramedic without the EMT.  They were all BLS before ALS.  They can't even practice without an EMT-B min. on the truck in our state.  I am ALS myself and I don't think of myself higher than anyone.  I just make it my mission to be the very best of the best and then make the best better.  Take on that attitude and it will take you far.  Don't get mad, just prove them wrong.  Learn all you can, and outsmart them.  It can happen.  I take pride in that very thing.  There is nothing no better than making a know it all paramedic look like an idiot because they think they are all that, and don't know the basics.




Okay, I can understand your point, and I actually agree to it somewhat. However; some of it is flawed... I Don't understand the following ..."Remember this... a paramedic is not a paramedic without the EMT."... All of our trucks have Paramedics.. If you mean titles.. nationally we are working on removing the technician title. Some areas already have.. such as the "CCP "title, notice no EMT, and the "They were all BLS before ALS".. as well is not true, I actually was a Paramedic before I was an EMT. At my service we have many Paramedics that never worked as a Basic... went straight to school and graduated from a Paramedic program, then went to work as a Paramedic. Actually, I feel these are some of our best Paramedics. They have no nasty habits to break, and the service can install the quality they want.. I'll take knowledge over experience any day. Anyone can get experience... not vice versa. As well basic performance and treatment should be simultaneously and does not take a rocket scientist to perform it ... however it take an idiot to forget it. Actually, it is the same treatment we teach common laymen. ( example.. CPR, bleeding, splinting, with the only difference is oxygen administration) 

I agree, there should be no "Paragod" syndrome.. as well as there should no "EMT saves Paramedics" attitude. I have yet seen only heard of one EMT save a Paramedic.. that was when he went into cardiac arrest, and AED shocked him. This phrase was designed to sell T-shirts, belt buckles and inflate ego's. Can you imagine a ER physician having a ....." ER Doc saves Surgeons?"..

EMS is a multi-team approach, like a jig saw puzzle, remove one piece and you do not have a whole picture. Every-ones job, including the wrecker driver, the rehab nurse is important. What most medics fail to recognize we are only a small part of the large EMS system.... 

R/r911


----------



## trauma1534 (Nov 17, 2006)

Ridryder, how long have you been in EMS?


----------



## trauma1534 (Nov 17, 2006)

Ok. Let's break this down.  Title means nothing to me.  You can be a President of a company, but know nothing about specific jobs of the workers in that company.  You stated that you were a Paramedic before you were an EMT... where did you go to Paramedic school at?  Paramedic is the advanced life support certification of EMT.  Did you not learn the basics before you learned advanced?  I highly suspect that you had to.  I think this is all a matter of opinion, however, seeing as how I am very opinionaited myself, here's mine. 

BLS ALWAYS comes before ALS.  Do you not perform a baseline vitals assessment prior to cracking open your drug box?  If not, I don't want you to work on me, or anyone for that matter.  Is not vital signs an EMT-B skill?  What is the first thing that you do in an unresponsive patient?  I highly doubt that you would pull out our AED pads and shock up front without assessing if you have a pulse... just as you would not intubate without assessing if your resps are not adaquate.  Those are all EMT-B level skills.  Would you just up and give someone Morphine without finding out what the patient is alergic to?  That too, is a BLS skill.  What about backboarding a patient... that is a BLS skill.  No matter how big the paramedic wants to look, it all goes back to basics.  Do you not on a rutine basis assess your patient for thier Hx, and all of that stuff?  Guess what... another BLS skill.  

One thing that I hate to see in the field, and I should know, I've been doing this for a little over 12 years, is to see a provider pop up on my truck, say he's a Paramedic and can't think outside the box because he went from zero to hero in 1 year.  I can pick out those who have the knowledge without the experience a mile away.  The book teaches you alot of basic knowledge, but it can not be compaired to the tricks of the trade that can only be learned in the field.  You can have as many letters behind your name as you want, but if you don't know how to apply them, they are useless.  

I know of a program right now here in my area.  It is a 28 week paramedic accademy.  You mean to tell me that you would hire that person who has gone through that training and only have 28 weeks under thier belt, verses a 5 or 10 year veterin in the field, and your determining factor for hiring that person is thier certification level?  Get real!  

I am an ALS provider myself.  I know of many times I have been glad to have an EMT-B in the back of the truck with me.  They think on that basic level that we as ALS providers often tend to forget when we get zoned in on what is going on with the patient.  They are a great extra set of hands, and they will keep up with the vitals, and times when we would forget about it trying to get that patient tubed, or trying to get ready to give a drug, or that IV started.  They are great to controle bleeding while you are working on thier volume.  Most of all, most EMT-B's have that passion to learn all they can from us so that they can become better at thier skill level.  Those Paramedics who think they don't need EMT-B's or consider themselves better than an EMT-B, because of thier title are just plane out dangerous.  Always remember one thing... You are one patient away from killing someone.  Yes, that EMT-B may very well save you from doing that.  When you forget to recheck that B/P and you give the wrong drug and cause more problems than you had to start with, you will be wishing you had that EMT on the truck with you.  When you hang a bag of fluid and you need that other bag right now, and you have to stop what you are doing and that patient is going down the drain, and you have to set up your second IV because you don't think you need that Basic on the truck, you will wish you had someone willing to set up your supplies for you.  

I will always stand up for EMT-B's who are sincere and want to learn and want to do.  I was once that EMT who wanted to learn myself.  Thanks to the great medics of my time, I am the provider I am today.  I have never been afraid to take any patient situation to the hospital.  Being around good medics in the past when I got started in EMS is what made me that way.  We all strived to be better than the next one, but we didn't want that other provider to be less than what we were either.  We worked together, but compeated to be the best of the best!

Another thing, in case you didn't notice, you speak so lowly about EMT's, the name of this forum that you so often post your opinions on is called EMTLife.  You must be in the wrong site!!!  

For those EMT-B's out there reading this, keep doing what you are doing.  Don't let people like this intimidate you.  Strive to be that best of the best.  Never let the paragods see you sweat.  You are the future in EMS.  Take your time and define your skills to be the very best you can be and don't stop there, make the best better!!!  Even if you have no intentions of becoming an ALS provider, you be the very best EMT-B your department has.  It will take you far!!!


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 17, 2006)

Not all just the ones from you know where


----------



## Summit (Nov 17, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Ridryder, how long have you been in EMS?



dirt was young back then...


----------



## trauma1534 (Nov 17, 2006)

Yep Jeep, we won't mention any names or squads now will we? LOL  I know a PA who used to be a Paramedic and he is not just the man, he is the damn man.  He would arrive on the scene and say... "Have no fear, God is here".  He was cocky as hell, but he could back it up.  As cocky and old as dirt as he was in the field, never, and I mean never did he ever put BLS providers down.  Infact, he made it his mission to make those providers the best that they could be.  If I remember correctly, he was a CCRN, CCNREMT-P, Flight Nurse, and finally settled down to be a PA.  VERY GOOD PROVIDER!  If I were to need someone's help, if I were to pass out, I would hope when I wake up, he would be standing over me.  That is the difference in all the letters in certifications in the world, and a damn good provider who has just gone far!


----------



## BossyCow (Nov 17, 2006)

The question reads... "do *ALL*Paramedics .... 

I don't know if my experience differs from the norm but in my humble opinion, there are jerks in all lines of work.  There are those whose main job is to make everyone who works with them feel uncomfortable, inferior, or impressed as hell just to have met them.  Some of them are paramedics, some are ER DragonLady Charge Nurses, some are Doc's, some are family members of patients or bystanders watching how we got that car door open.  

The answer to the question is No... *ALL* paramedics are not anything.. they are as varied as the human race.  The mature thing, which often becomes difficult to manage after a particularly gnarly call or shift... is to remember that the jerk is not a jerk because of what he does.. or the title he holds.. but just because, quite simply, his inate jerkdom shows up in what he does.


----------



## Guardian (Nov 17, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Ridryder, how long have you been in EMS?



he's a brand new emt


----------



## Ridryder911 (Nov 17, 2006)

FYI..You asked.. I went through my first Paramedic course there was no basic class until I had been a Paramedic for about a year. Yeah, NREMT only have had Paramedic level for about 25 years.. this was 4 years after I was a Paramedic. I went back and tested out the basic and then obtained a degree in EMS, over 20 years ago  I have been an ER, RN with multiple board specialties for over 17 years. I currently have 3 degrees in Science and now working on my 4'th..  I hold Instructor titles in the usual alphabet courses...just pick one.. as well as have been a consult for many EMS education texts, as well as NHTSA, State Trauma Systems and the development of Trauma Centers.. so I do know a wee little about EMS but, hey I still continue to learn something new everyday!

Now, I am not against Basic EMT's, what I am against is those thinking that Basic EMT courses are up to par for comparison of any medical education. Do you realize the Basic EMT is written at a elementary level to an 8'th grade reading level and the one text book Paramedic course is written are at a 10'th grade level ... as well, most of your EMS magazines and journal will not publish any thing written again above 10'th grade level... want to know why?.. You guessed it.. average reading level is about 8'th grade to freshmen level.. High School. The whole system sucks...Can we really toot our horn now? 

Now, you want to know some real facts.. take the NREMT testing (which is the national standardized EMS entry level tests) and see what science level it is written at and much more discouraging is the disappointing passing rate... Now, tell me how great the EMS education system is?

No where else do you see BLS stressed as much as from EMT's... okay, you performed ABC's (all patients should be assessed) this is your job.. how hard is that..? Really, again this is not rocket science. It is and should be part of assessment and treatment modality. You described not getting a baseline v.s prior to treatment... sorry, that should be performed simultaneously.. and after your first semester of EMT education one should not have to assess more than 30 seconds to see if someone needs to be intubated or not. A quick overview of 15 seconds will tell you if someone tidal volume is adequate or respiratory drive is decreased as well as adventitious lung sounds.
Again, this is simultaneously performed.. BLS is part of ALS NOT a separate Criteria!... It all goes hand in hand.. Assessing and concordance treatment should be done appropriately. Do you wait to get a b/p reading before applying oxygen ?... I hope not.. 

Compare the ARC Advanced First Aid to the Basic EMT curriculum and one will see that there is very LITTLE difference. The basic EMT curriculum has been diluted so bad, that there is little medical expertise or knowledge taught above the laymen level. Now, compare the current curriculum of that even 15 years ago.. yes more in clock hours, but definitely less in depth. (For example the 6 common types of fractures, basic medical terminology and charting.. etc.) 

I personally would not hire or work at a service that employs "shake and bake" Paramedics. Even where I am, most have graduated through a 2 year AAS program, and most of us feel it is still way inadequate with today's healthcare dilemma.

Experience is nice, and I too you used to think it was essential, but I have since changed my mine. One can be doing something wrong forever and never know it. It does not take "experience" to be effective 100%. We place more emphasis on experience than we do having enough knowledge of knowing what to do. No other medical field requires different entry levels or as many levels as EMT's (last count per JEMS was over 140 acronyms for EMT's). Do you think that all physicians have been exposed or have experience in everything prior to practicing medicine ? 

Give me a green medic with an exceptional knowledge base and eagerness to learn.. and we can get them the experience with time. Now, do a comparison.. one green and has a license to perform medic skills, the other has experience and cannot. Both will obtaining experience at the same time, only one will be progressing upwards. 

Again, it is not I am against EMT's .. it is the system that is broke. There is a place for EMT's as first responders, and associates for rural systems.
Amazing, everyone assumes you are against EMT's if you want EMS to progress as a profession, and as well to remove the "training" mentality and to go to a formal education system, (Like every other health care profession has.) Don't like working odd shifts, requiring 2 - 3 jobs to make ends meet, and having a dead end career after 5 years in the field.. then change the system! It won't fix itself with a status quo attitude... as in the words of infamous Dr. Phil.. "You can't fix, what you don't identify and acknowledge".. 

I am sure many assume at first I am a Paragod, I really don't care. I have plenty of Basic's on up request me to ride with for clinical and to teach their upcoming classes. I do expect more and I have found out most will & can do it, when only asked to and demanded to perform at that level. I as well, will tolerate ignorance (not knowing something) however; I will not tolerate be stupid (refusing to learn and change things for the better). My only business is to take care of the sick and injured... and so should everyone else's in EMS. Ego's need to be checked out at the door.. when you enter for work.. deflated or inflated. Nothing pisses me off more to see a Paradiva or Paragod no matter what level their patch is. 

Like I described, I continuously learn something everyday.. I still study and review an re-review and practice.. my patients demand I be competent. I personally realize to be the better.. I have to learn everyday.. and do either by reading, or watching off others.

Yes, we need to "think outside the box'.. unfortunately most EMT's don't even know what their box is... 

R/r 911


----------



## Guardian (Nov 17, 2006)

I pretty much agree with everything trauma1534 wrote.  Obviously "basics" come before advanced care.  Obviously, you can't go around being mean to people just because they're an emt-b.  And obviously, there are some ALS A-holes out there.

I would add that there seems to be an idea that you have to be an emt-b before you can be a paramedic.  In reality, being a paramedic is not that hard and you can go from zero to hero in a year and be a competent paramedic.  If I remember correctly, Johnny and Roy only had about 3 months worth of training.  Also, there is a fine line between A-hole and AIC.  Guess what, it is perfectly fine for a brand new paramedic to give an order to a 20 year veteran emt-b.  Let me give you some examples,

go get the stretcher (that's ok)
go get the stretcher you stupid idiot (that's not ok)

you doing that wrong, do it this way instead (that's ok)
you doing that wrong dummy, do it this way instead (that's not ok)

If I had my druthers, emt-b wouldn't work on ems ambulances.  In a perfect world, we would find a way to educate and pay for NR-Paramedics (notice, no emt) on every ambulance.  I'm like rid, I'll take education over experience any day of the week and twice on sunday.


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 22, 2006)

Know it all, he**....I don't know anything. The only thing I know, is when I get in the  back of the truck...I got mine! I have been called cocky in the past, but it really isn't cockiness, it is confidence. I know that whatever happens in the back of the truck, I can handle it...it doesn't mean I may not be scared or a little confused about what is wrong with the patient, but the patient won't know, the family won't know nor will anyone else of lower certification on the truck. Because above all else, my main function is to maintain control of the scene and you can't do that without having confidence in your knowledge and your skills. 


This is to Ridryder, just out of curiousity, how large is the EMS service you work/worked for, annual call volume, how many ambulances on the road at one time, population of the area your agency services? There is a reason I ask these things.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Nov 22, 2006)

My main service has just recently went to 4/24 dual Paramedic coverage with an additional 12 hr dual Paramedic truck, 1 Field Supervisor Unit and a 1 wheelchair unit which will be going to probably 1 or 2 more. We are in discussion of adding more area (which, is controversial good and bad). Right now we cover about 1250 square miles. They placed a chopper about 7 miles away and we are their number 1 customer for scene flights, we are considered an urban/rural with a total population about little over 100,000. Some of our transports from scene may be up to 32 miles to a hospital and 50-60 to a Level I. 

It appears our call volume is going to be about 10,000+ emergency calls with transports and growing intensely, as well we do a lot of critical care transports as well. We work a modified Kelly shift, 24/on 24/off for 3 shifts, then 4 off in a row.

Each truck is equipped with the usual CPAP, portable vents, IV pumps, etc.. we have a new young medical director so our protocols are currently in review and modification, dependent on new studies and research. There are only a very few "call in", all front line procedures including narcs, chest decompression, crich's, I/O's are standing orders. 
Fortunately, we are just about 18-22 minutes outside the largest metro area in the state. Each day it appears we are becoming a suburb of the area. 

We are experiencing growing pains, (which is good to grow) but keeping status -quo is hard enough in any EMS. Like every EMS we have good days and bad... 

I have worked at large metro EMS where they average >75,000 calls a year to EMS that only ran 4,000 calls (which was the most advanced and agressive, as well hardest due to tranport time was an average at least an hour to a tietarary center) and as a trauma/ER nurse at multiple trauma centers. 


* I see you are a Fed/Officer, we are about 35 miles from one of the largest "holding areas, processing areas" in OKC....

R/r 911


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 22, 2006)

> If I had my druthers, emt-b wouldn't work on ems ambulances. In a perfect world, we would find a way to educate and pay for NR-Paramedics (notice, no emt) on every ambulance.


:wacko: 

With out EMT there would be no Paramedic. Look the National Registery Patch. What does it say????

Say what you want you are just an EMT with a p instead of a b. You can not treat what you don't asses. And Assessment is an EMT-B skill.B)


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 22, 2006)

> Do all Paramedics Think they know all???



Nope but I slept at a Holiday Inn Last night does that count?B)


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 22, 2006)

Ridryder911 said:


> My main service has just recently went to 4/24 dual Paramedic coverage with an additional 12 hr dual Paramedic truck, 1 Field Supervisor Unit and a 1 wheelchair unit which will be going to probably 1 or 2 more. We are in discussion of adding more area (which, is controversial good and bad). Right now we cover about 1250 square miles. They placed a chopper about 7 miles away and we are their number 1 customer for scene flights, we are considered an urban/rural with a total population about little over 100,000. Some of our transports from scene may be up to 32 miles to a hospital and 50-60 to a Level I.
> 
> It appears our call volume is going to be about 10,000+ emergency calls with transports and growing intensely, as well we do a lot of critical care transports as well. We work a modified Kelly shift, 24/on 24/off for 3 shifts, then 4 off in a row.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response. That explains a lot to me. Different providers have differing opinions on things related to EMS and I have often found that the main contributing factor seems to be the types of agencies you work for, which intern relates to call volume, system size, number of trucks on the road and etc., etc., etc. 

Yeah, we have a large transfer center there in OKC...overall this BOP gig is pretty good...low stress, good money and good bennies...can't complain.


----------



## fm_emt (Nov 22, 2006)

trauma1534 said:


> Ridryder, how long have you been in EMS?



I think he intubated Moses once.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Nov 22, 2006)

No, but you should have seen all the falls I worked while crossing the sea.....(p.s. where do you think the caduceus came from on the Star of Life)...LOL

R/r 911


----------



## Flight-LP (Nov 23, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> :wacko:
> 
> With out EMT there would be no Paramedic. Look the National Registery Patch. What does it say????
> 
> Say what you want you are just an EMT with a p instead of a b. You can not treat what you don't asses. And Assessment is an EMT-B skill.B)



Yes, assessment is a basic SKILL. Again, anybody can be trained to perform a skill. But to utilize a critical thought process and identify potential differential diagnosis' along with creating an optimal treatment plan is an action that few EMT-B's have the ability to do. 120 hours of an advanced first aid class is not nearly sufficient to instill that quality...............


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 23, 2006)

Flight-LP said:


> Yes, assessment is a basic SKILL. Again, anybody can be trained to perform a skill. But to utilize a critical thought process and identify potential differential diagnosis' along with creating an optimal treatment plan is an action that few EMT-B's have the ability to do. 120 hours of an advanced first aid class is not nearly sufficient to instill that quality...............



He doesn't mean that you can replace a paramedic with an EMT. What he means is, at least in Virginia, EMT's are the backbone of EMS. VA is a mostly volunteer state when it comes to EMS. Without our EMT's you could call 911 all day and more than likely your not going to get an ambulance, at least in most of the rural areas. So there is no need to belittle EMT's. Yes, having all paramedics would be great, but in our part of the world, unrealistic  expectations. Here are the facts for the state of Virginia.
2006 EMS Provider Statistics
As of the Beginning of:

Total of 33,598 providers. Broken down by certification.
First Responder    1,412
EMT-B               23,780
Enhanced            1,690
Intermediate        2,325
Paramedic           3,533

And of those 3,533; I dare not say that 90% of those are in the 5 large metropolitan areas. That leaves the vast majority of the state with a handfull of paramedics and bunch of EMT's. So you can say what you would like about EMT's but we could not function without them.


----------



## trauma1534 (Nov 23, 2006)

Thank you Fedmedic for breaking that down for us.  Well said.  ;-)


----------



## lfsvr0114 (Nov 23, 2006)

I never act like I know everything.  I am always trying to learn more.  If I ever take a pt and am not completely familiar with one of the diagnoses, I look it up online.  My motto is, the day I think I know everything is the day I need to get out of EMS because I am fixing to screw up royally.  I think the best people out there, no matter what the certification is, are the ones that keep trying to better themselves.  We will never know it all, there is always something new being discovered everyday whether it is a new treatment or medication.  We must always be ready to learn new things or a new way to do old things.


----------



## prizonmedik (Nov 23, 2006)

Ridryder,  I only have one question.  How do you and your ego fit in your house.  Have you even noticed that only one person on this board lists all there merit badges?  You say "I will take education over experience anyday"  Question.  You have a brain anuerism Surgeon #1 had mediocre training but has performed successful surgeories.  Surgeon #2 has the best education, but has never held a scapel without big brother over his shoulder, who you pickin?  Give me a good BLS partner over a crappy ALS partner anyday.


----------



## prizonmedik (Nov 23, 2006)

RidRyder posted all his merit badges, I'll post the one's I have that matter the most.....6c and LEOSA.


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 23, 2006)

prizonmedik said:


> RidRyder posted all his merit badges, I'll post the one's I have that matter the most.....6c and LEOSA.



D@mn skippy, those are my merit badges that I want to talk about...6C and LEOSA.


----------



## prizonmedik (Nov 23, 2006)

and if you don't know what LEOSA  or 6c retirement is just google it, you'll find out why it's so important.


----------



## RescueRandy (Nov 23, 2006)

prizonmedik said:


> Ridryder,  I only have one question.  How do you and your ego fit in your house.  Have you even noticed that only one person on this board lists all there merit badges?  You say "I will take education over experience anyday"  Question.  You have a brain anuerism Surgeon #1 had mediocre training but has performed successful surgeories.  Surgeon #2 has the best education, but has never held a scapel without big brother over his shoulder, who you pickin?  Give me a good BLS partner over a crappy ALS partner anyday.



There's nothing wrong with a little pride in who you are and what you've done. So that's a little out of line. Being confident doesn't equate to a having a big ego either. If you read the posts by Ridryder all over these forums he hardly comes off as egocentric.

For you non Paramedics out there: I think if you further your education you'll see just how limited the basic EMT level courses are. I attended what was, at the time (1982), one of the better EMT courses around. I thought I was prepared well for the job and went to work for a high volume urban provider. I quickly understood I knew not nearly enough, and after 6 months went on to a Paramedic program, after which I looked back and understood just how little I knew.

So no, not all Paramedics are gods, and some are downright pitiful. But education is the key, along with good experience and the common sense to do what's right without getting carried away.


----------



## Summit (Nov 24, 2006)

prizonmedik said:


> Ridryder,  I only have one question.  How do you and your ego fit in your house.



ridryder has been nothing but a positive contributor to this board. he is no egotist. his posts are educational, insightful, and helpful. 

what have you done for this community? maybe if you paid attention long enough before shooting off your mouth, you'd have known that your statement is barely worthy dignifying with a counterpost

ps. ridryder mentions his medical qualifications... but you say that is chestbeating... so then why are you using jargon to brag about being a retired LEO then telling everyone to go look up your terms? are you too good to explain it? most of all, why should we really care? 

ou remind me of someone from another ems forum i no longer frequent. i do frequent a ski forum. we have a term there for n00bs who pop in and spout off stupid **** without thought... the term is JONG. I will explain it. JackOff Newbie Gaper. 

STFU JONG


----------



## Ridryder911 (Nov 24, 2006)

prizonmedik said:


> and if you don't know what LEOSA  or 6c retirement is just google it, you'll find out why it's so important.



So "old Barney's" can carry a weapon. Hell, anyone that passes a 2 week class here can do that. What does a "gun club" have to do with EMS? 

You know, I worked as a tactical medic in a Police EMS fortunately they required their Officer Medics to have at least a B.S. degree to apply. This definitely, cut down the majority of "Barney Fife's" mentality. 

DT4EMS is outstanding demonstration of what medical and LEO can do and go hand in hand in raising pertinent EMS and LEO education levels. He is a contributing member of EMS at multiple state levels and I foresee him at a national level very soon. I wished we had more like him.

If you were educated, you would realize posting titles is appropriate. As well, I have found out those that complain are the ones that could never and never will be able to even qualify to be eligible to take medical board examinations levels. So when and if you ever receive a true medical education (hint.. not a training seminar of a couple nighttime classes) and pass those boards, then come back and I.M. me.. 

Amazing, how having an education level threatens others.. when we should all be supporting it, for the good of our patients, profession and yes ourselves. So much different on other EMS forums, and other medical forum sites, that promote & recognizes education.

R/r 911


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

Ridryder,
I hate to say it, but you're barking up the wrong tree this time. I have worked with Prizenmedik for 15 years, probably the best medic I have ever worked with, and there are several others on this board that can verify this. And as far as education, don't get me started there. He has just as many alphabet titles as you or anyone else on this board, yeah he is a CCP as well. He also has a degree in something to do with computers, he did that before EMS, he got into EMS because it was boring. Haven't seen him take anything he didn't ace yet. Entrance test would not be a problem for him. We were actually going to do a paramedic to BSN bridge program this January, but we decided against it because we already make more than most BSN RN's. He was just making an observation about several comments regarding your take on BLS providers. But believe me, if your half the medic he is, then I'd give you the respect I give him. I'm not saying you're not, it's just that I know him and have been through deep shi* with him and I haven't with you.


----------



## FFEMT1764 (Nov 24, 2006)

I know that I don't know it all, but I do know a lot, and I learned it from both education and experience. I learn something new every day, either at work, or on here reading the posts of some people who have been doing this longer than me. I have been doing this 13+ years now. I have no problem with BLS providers unless they don't know their job. If I am working with someone who knows what they are doing and demonstrates an understand of things then I let them perform to the extent of the certification. If they show me they don't know their arm from an extension set then they get to carry the bag, fetch the stretcher, and take the basic vital signs, and I will double check them in the truck just to be sure they can do that. If you are jam up, and show me this with aggresive approches to patient care, when the time comes I will let them have first shot at a tube or putting a line in a patient. However, ALL drugs and monitoring here is STRICTLY an ALS skill.  I know basic and intermediates who can read and EKG as well as I can, after all I began to learn about EKG interpretations when I was an EMT-I. That is why I say I learned from classroom as well as field experience. For 4 years I worked for a rescue squad and was just an "I", but I was the only person with a card on the truck. I have treated some really sick people. Recognizing that they were really sick was the key though...recognize, and treat them enroute. The ER was 10 minutes away then, and meeting ALS was futile when we would meet 3 blocks from the ER.  Where I work now we have a medic on every truck. We would like to have 2 on every truck, but we have a medic shortage in our area. I have no problem with this, and providing that my partner shows me they have a brain and the ability to use it I let them utilize their skills, and I stand back and gather in the needed info to determine what is going on with my patients.  But like Rid said, education is key to this job...but experience does count for something.


----------



## Summit (Nov 24, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> Ridryder,
> I hate to say it, but you're barking up the wrong tree this time. I have worked with Prizenmedik for 15 years, probably the best medic I have ever worked with, and there are several ... I know him and have been through deep shi* with him and I haven't with you.



And exactly what tree is prizonmedik barking up??? You said you don't know ridryder. What a realization... too bad prozonmedik didn't make that realization. So only a gungho jackoff would, unprovoked, whip out attacks and accusations against one of the highest educated, most experienced, most respected members of this community without ANY understanding of the person or his contributions.

So once again to prizonmedik, way to make an entrance. STFU JONG. Lurk, learn, understand, THEN start shooting your mouth off if you still feel it necessary. That's the way the internet works.


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

> So once again to prizonmedik, way to make an entrance. STFU JONG. Lurk, learn, understand, THEN start shooting your mouth off if you still feel it necessary. That's the way the internet works.



So how many calls have you ran with Mr. Ridryder. Looks to me like you need to STFU.


----------



## FFEMT1764 (Nov 24, 2006)

Geez, this is turning into a really nasty little thread...it's the holidays, can't we all just get along!


----------



## Summit (Nov 24, 2006)

jeepmedic said:


> So how many calls have you ran with Mr. Ridryder.



None. But I've read enough of his posts on this forum (and others) to know he is a very positive member of this community.  I know this because I've been a part of this community for nearly 2 years. I'm one of the top 30 contributors (of over 1000). So is Ridryder.

Prisonmedic joined the forum yesterday and has a wonderfull total of 3 posts here... all in this thread... none of them positive.

Jeepmedic... you post 8 times per day. You are a prolific poster. Good for you. Welcome. 

But remember, you, fedmedic, and prisonmedic have not even been here for 8 days, 3 days, and 1 day respectively. 

It would do you well to learn about this place before attacking its upstanding members.


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

I still say no I don't know everything but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

As far as education VS. experience I have worked with RNs, MSNs, PAs, Medics, EMT-Bs, FRs, and folks that never wanted to go take a class that have been driving fire trucks for 30 years. It takes education and experience to make a good provider. If I had a choice for a partner I would take experience with little education over someone who has an education with little experience. Just as I would rather have a PA or NP work on me than a Dr.


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

Summit said:


> None. But I've read enough of his posts on this forum (and others) to know he is a very positive member of this community.  I know this because I've been a part of this community for nearly 2 years. I'm one of the top 30 contributors (of over 1000). So is Ridryder.
> 
> Prisonmedic joined the forum yesterday and has a wonderfull total of 3 posts here... all in this thread... none of them positive.
> 
> ...




I have not attacked anyone YET. If you would like I can start.


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

Summit said:


> None. But I've read enough of his posts on this forum (and others) to know he is a very positive member of this community.  I know this because I've been a part of this community for nearly 2 years. I'm one of the top 30 contributors (of over 1000). So is Ridryder.
> 
> Prisonmedic joined the forum yesterday and has a wonderfull total of 3 posts here... all in this thread... none of them positive.
> 
> ...



You're right, I have only been on this forum for a couple of days. But I am a 15 year paramedic, therefore, I have enough experience dealing with all types and levels of providers to make an informed opinion based on what I have read in these postings. I'm like an umpire, "call it like I see it", if anyone on this forum is that thin skinned that they can't take criticism then they are in the wrong career. To be a decent provider you have to be able to swim with the sharks, and believe me, I have earned my fins. And when I see someone belittling another's level of training just because they have more training, then, yes, I am going to tell you about it, whether you want to hear it or not. I've earned that right.


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

And by the way, I may be new to this forum, but I'm no forum rookie either. Go to Officer.com, policemag.com and 911jobforums.com and you'll find my post everywhere. And they're normally very civil, but if you go attacking me or my friends for making simple observations based on what we read, then this shouldn't be an open forum, it should be a forum for you and everyone else that has the same opinion as you and believes as you do. Of course, it would be a little narrow minded since everyone has the same opinion but at least you would be happy and not get up in your feelings.


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

Summit said:


> It would do you well to learn about this place before attacking its upstanding members.



And another thing, just because you worship the ground someone walks on, and think they are all that and a bag of chips, doesn't mean we think so. I have been a paramedic long enough to realize that ridryder is nothing special, he is just like jeepmedic, prizenmedik, myself and any other paramedic, just a bunch of flunkies with patches on our arms that say we may or may not know how to save a life. We are not great super heros or gods, just ordinary people with a job to do. So I guess you could call it policing the ranks, we police our own, when you reach our rank, you will be able to join in. Until then, leave it to us, including ridryder, because I'm sure he has earned the right, just like us.


----------



## Summit (Nov 24, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> And another thing, just because you worship the ground someone walks on... blah blah blah... ridryder is ... just a bunch of flunkies with patches on our arms that say we may or may not know how to save a life.



Experienced medics out there who know their stuff. That isn't the whole reason for respect. *You seem to think it should be the only factor. *Like you said, there are plenty of folks out there who fit that bill. Even then, why should we believe what you say? Nobody else is whipping out their ****s about who is the better provider. You haven't exactly demonstrated anything except you are friends with someone who is easily fired up and disrespectful. 

People here are repsected here because they apply knowledge to defuse theads like this, not start childish personal attacks simply because they disagree. 

People are respected here for freely sharing their knowledge and experience instead of attacking others or demanding things be kept dumb.

People are respected here for advocating education and the idea that EMS should be progressed to something more than a vocation.

Such people are positive contributors. Ridryder is a positive contributor, *here *(and on many other EMS forums) *for the reasons above.* That is why he is respected. When you have a good amount as well, you might be considered one of the many respected members here too. 

Once again, if your buddy had taken time to observe, he would have realized that.



			
				Fedmedic said:
			
		

> when I see someone belittling another's level of training just because they have more training, then, yes, I am going to tell you about it



PAGING FEDMEDIC! YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME WORDS WITH THIS GUY:





Fedmedic said:


> we police our own, when you reach our rank, you will be able to join in. Until then, leave it to us



*Sorry, did you tell me to stay out of this discussion because I'm not a paramedic? **cough*hypocrite*cough*  



Fedmedic said:


> ...And they're normally very civil, but if you go attacking me or my friends...



You'll find the same here. Personally, I enjoy a good flame war, but of the 12 forums of various subjects on which I post, this is the most civil with the possible exception of the ultralight backpacking forum (which is full of dirty hippy love). 

If your buddy accords reasonable respect to others and contributes positive and useful posts, he will be met with the same respect.

If he marches in here sticking his foot in his mouth and attacking *people he does not know anything about based on first assumptions*, he will make a poor impression and garner little respect in return.

When you ASSUME, you make an *** out of U and ME.



Fedmedic said:


> And by the way, I may be new to this forum, but I'm no forum rookie either.



Your buddy received a negative response when his first posts were all negative and used to attack someone who is respected here.

*If you are such an internet forum veteran, well then you shouldn't have been at all surprised or appalled by that reaction to your pal, now should you? *


----------



## Fedmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

First of all, I'm not a hypocrite because I never belittled you, by saying anything about you being an EMT. I said paramedics are allowed to police other paramedics, because we all know about the paragod syndrome and can relate to it at one time or another, if you aren't or haven't been a paramedic you can't relate to this, therefore, you have no ability to police us. 

Secondly, If you attack my friend and partner, I am going to retaliate, because that is what we do. It is the blackeye theory, if my friend gets a blackeye, then I get one with him, either by the person who gave it to him or by him. It doesn't matter, that's what we do. He's got my 6 and I've got his. 

Later, I've got to go eat Thanksgiving supper with Prizenmedik, we were both working yesterday.


----------



## usafmedic45 (Nov 24, 2006)

Wow....a flamewar on EMTLife and I wasn't involved in starting it....hell must have frozen over.  

If you all need me, I'll be on the porch as I see several of you are already on the cross.


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> And another thing, just because you worship the ground someone walks on, and think they are all that and a bag of chips, doesn't mean we think so. I have been a paramedic long enough to realize that ridryder is nothing special, he is just like jeepmedic, prizenmedik, myself and any other paramedic, just a bunch of flunkies with patches on our arms that say we may or may not know how to save a life.




If you are going to quote someone then you should use the whole quote there Summit.


----------



## jeepmedic (Nov 24, 2006)

> Secondly, If you attack my friend and partner, I am going to retaliate, because that is what we do. It is the blackeye theory, if my friend gets a blackeye, then I get one with him, either by the person who gave it to him or by him. It doesn't matter, that's what we do. He's got my 6 and I've got his.



One for all and all for one.   



Eat some turkey for me.


----------



## Summit (Nov 24, 2006)

Fedmedic said:


> I said paramedics are allowed to police other paramedics



Members of this forum will self-police. In that regard we don't give two farts what your patch reads. As a newbie here, you don't really have much input either. *Just because you are a paramedic, that doesn't mean you are beyond reproach from nonmedics if you are acting like an idiot.* If you're pal is acting like a jackoff newbie, I will call him on it regardless of his cert 



> Secondly, If you attack my friend and partner, I am going to retaliate, because that is what we do. It is the blackeye theory, if my friend gets a blackeye, then I get one with him, either by the person who gave it to him or by him. It doesn't matter, that's what we do. He's got my 6 and I've got his.



Gosh, sorry I gave him a blackeye. 

It just warms my heart to hear you boys are friends to the end. Keep watching his 6 and mindlessly defending his idiotic actions. We are all very impressed by your loyalty.

Of course, there is a simpler solution...


----------



## ffemt8978 (Nov 24, 2006)

This thread is closed until everyone can learn to respect each other and remember that we have a ZERO TOLERANCE policy for personal attacks here.


----------

