# Upsetting...



## daedalus (May 19, 2008)

Last night, my partner and I wanted In and Out Burger (any one who lies or lived in california will be familiar with this burger chain, its famous and sort of part of california itself). Anyways, we pulled into the parking lot and like many other parking lots, all the spaces are compact, so we pulled in behind an LAPD unit parked in a firelane in the vary back of the lot, not obstructing any spaces or the flow of traffic. We go in and eat, my partner flirts with the two very young cops, and than we leave. To my surprise, and older security guard approaches us and tells us to no longer park there, or anywhere in the lot, because it creates "problems for him". 

I explained to the guard that in the event of getting a call, I would have to go, and that I risk damaging your customer's vehicles by parking in the compact spaces. I also explained that it is common practice for fire engines to park in these areas for the same reasons, being too large and quick call response. I was shot down and told to park somewhere else.

This really irks me because that would have never been said to the Fire Dept because they are the heros, or the police because they are the cops. It also irks me because one day when that guard needs an ambulance for something emergently, his view of us will change.

Maybe im wrong for thinking I can park there, maybe we should have walked across the street from another lot that can accommodate us. Any thoughts?


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## JPINFV (May 19, 2008)

It really depends on how the parking lot and area is set up. I do think that a lot of times emergency personnel park in some places because they can, not because they have too. I have seen people park in the middle of traffic when a 10 second further walk would have put them in a much better location in terms of traffic.

Now by the wording of your post, this doesn't seem to be the case, in which case it seems like the guard was justing being full of himself. Unfortunately, it is private property. On the other hand, In-N-Out rocks.


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## mdkemt (May 19, 2008)

That is definitally interesting.  I think he was showing his ego off.  Even though it is a private parking lot Emergency Service workers are granted this places for a reason.  Parking at a fire line is normal practice where I am from.  I would have told the security guy that he was out of line.  But I am bold and sometimes speak to quickly.

I do see your point on how EMS isn't looked upon the same as Fire ad Police.  However, I notice the biggest change of heart when we come onto scene and the police are there.  I always get the whole story and they are always greatful for our service.  Wonder if there is just a lack of education to the public on what we a EMS workers truely do.

MDKEMT


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## JPINFV (May 19, 2008)

mdkemt said:


> Even though it is a private parking lot Emergency Service workers are granted this places for a reason.  Parking at a fire line is normal practice where I am from.  I would have told the security guy that he was out of line.  But I am bold and sometimes speak to quickly.


I wouldn't take such a caviler attitude about the fire lane, though. Private property=right to refuse service to anyone=not a customer, no reason to park in parking lot.


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## LE-EMT (May 19, 2008)

The "Fire lane" is in fact reserved for emergencies.  I commend the Security Guard for saying something.  I personally would have spoken with the cops as well.  If I were in his position and I have been.  I got my start at 18 as a rent a cop.  Wonderful job and those men and women get a bad wrap. They basically do the job of cops for crap pay, more head ache and NO respect.  I couldn't even begin to count how many times they have aided me or made my job easier.  
Every one looks down on them because of the movies and misconceptions.  But I will stop there because I could go on forever about the injustices they suffer.  Fact of the matter is although it is a minor infraction it is still a infraction.  Just because WE are marked units doesn't mean we can park any where we want.  Not to mention it is private property so its under his jurisdiction and can do what ever he wants to have you removed.  Ever seen an ambo towed.......Try explaining that to your sup's....


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## daedalus (May 19, 2008)

LE-EMT said:


> The "Fire lane" is in fact reserved for emergencies.  I commend the Security Guard for saying something.  I personally would have spoken with the cops as well.  If I were in his position and I have been.  I got my start at 18 as a rent a cop.  Wonderful job and those men and women get a bad wrap. They basically do the job of cops for crap pay, more head ache and NO respect.  I couldn't even begin to count how many times they have aided me or made my job easier.
> Every one looks down on them because of the movies and misconceptions.  But I will stop there because I could go on forever about the injustices they suffer.  Fact of the matter is although it is a minor infraction it is still a infraction.  Just because WE are marked units doesn't mean we can park any where we want.  Not to mention it is private property so its under his jurisdiction and can do what ever he wants to have you removed.  Ever seen an ambo towed.......Try explaining that to your sup's....


the cops told the guard to shut his mouth.


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## CFRBryan347768 (May 19, 2008)

daedalus said:


> Last night, my partner and I wanted In and Out Burger (any one who lies or lived in california will be familiar with this burger chain, its famous and sort of part of california itself). Anyways, we pulled into the parking lot and like many other parking lots, all the spaces are compact, so we pulled in behind an LAPD unit parked in a firelane in the vary back of the lot, not obstructing any spaces or the flow of traffic. We go in and eat, my partner flirts with the two very young cops, and than we leave. To my surprise, and older security guard approaches us and tells us to no longer park there, or anywhere in the lot, because it creates "problems for him".
> 
> I explained to the guard that in the event of getting a call, I would have to go, and that I risk damaging your customer's vehicles by parking in the compact spaces. I also explained that it is common practice for fire engines to park in these areas for the same reasons, being too large and quick call response. I was shot down and told to park somewhere else.
> 
> ...



We often park in the fire lane, and I never really thought about it until now, but hey no is no and get the ::bleeep: out is well that. So if that does happen their really is no point in arguing it just go park and take up the 3-4 spaces to safely park and maneuver.


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## Jon (May 19, 2008)

When we go out for food/errands, I try to find a regular parking space where I can park safely and close to the building. I'll often take up 2 spaces to park safely.

When there aren't any good spaces, I'll park in a fire lane. I try to park to the side of the building, not directly in front of the door.


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## Flight-LP (May 20, 2008)

daedalus said:


> the cops told the guard to shut his mouth.



I would have had their cruiser towed. Or better yet, pulled the fire alarm inside and then let the FD have them towed when they got on scene. That badge and gun grants them zero special privledges. If they can't lead by example, they need to find another career.


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## Jon (May 20, 2008)

Flight-LP said:


> I would have had their cruiser towed. Or better yet, pulled the fire alarm inside and then let the FD have them towed when they got on scene. ...


Careful... I understand what you are saying, but a malicious false alarm is a crime... then the guy with the badge and the gun gets to have you model his cool metal braclets 

When I do it, I carry a portable radio with me and keep an ear open... I know when the FD is being dispatched nearby... so I won't be blocking it when they pull up.


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## daedalus (May 20, 2008)

I would love to see a tow truck try and tow a squad car with two officers there. In addition, most tow companies around here get most of their business towing cars FOR the police dept, so that would be suicide in a business way to tow a cruiser. I see your point, Flight, and you are right, its private property and the guard has the right to tell the cops or my partner and I to move, but it doesn't mean he is full of himself in the stupid rent a cop uniform and trying to overstep his boundaries by telling the real authorities what to do.


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## VentMedic (May 20, 2008)

daedalus said:


> I would love to see a tow truck try and tow a squad car with two officers there. In addition, most tow companies around here get most of their business towing cars FOR the police dept, so that would be suicide in a business way to tow a cruiser.



How soon we forget Jimmy Justice and the uproar he caused in NYC with his videotape of LEOs and other city employees (including a few ambulances) violating the law when not on emergency calls.   

The last thing you want to do is make the evening news for taking advantage of a courtesy by LEOs that have looked the other way or have been supportive of you in the past.    By granting this courtesy to you puts them in a position to also be scrutinized by their superiors and the public. 

This elitist attitude might work in some small towns but in large cities where there are many different EMS and transport ambulances, it can become a nuisance.  Everyone with some type of light on their vehicle thinks they are just as privileged.   Some restaurants would prefer not to have the ambulances or any emergency vehicle park in the front where they are visible from the street.  Yes, they may give back door access but that is about it.   With always wanting the "expected" discounts, occupying emergency access lanes,  blocking parking spaces, harassing their security officers with disrespect and involving the police to get involved in these incidents in public view, I can't imagine why these places of business even want anything to do with the people in an ambulance.   

You think they should be ever so grateful when you do respond to an emergency at their place of business. But, isn't that your job?   Isn't the security officer doing a job also.  Aren't you giving the same blatant "in your face" attitude toward the security officer when you break the law?


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## daedalus (May 20, 2008)

I never said I gave the guard any attitude, I calmly explained my situation to him of not being able to park in his "compact" marked spaces. And as for a discount, I think that is throughly unacceptable of anyone to ask because it makes us all look bad. The far majority of our regular restaurants are MORE than happy to have our patronage because they know we are always around and about for sometimes three day shifts, and we give them regular business, and they are more than happy to allow us extra parking spaces or use of otherwise prohibited parking. I have the attitude of "go with the flow" and while I am serious and I expect rules to be followed, when it comes to just trying to cause problems as this guard was doing, it makes me upset. He said nothing to the police who also parked there. 

Make no mistake, I expect NO special "privileges" while driving an ambulance.


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## karaya (May 20, 2008)

It is a shame that you encountered a security guard with his head on such narrow shoulders.  Best solution?  Go find another burger joint.


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## O'Shoot (May 20, 2008)

We had a restaurant owner that complained about emergency vehicles (police, fire, and ems) parking in his lot to the point we got tired of hearing about it. It took one week of a collective "Do Not Eat At L******'s" by all of the services for him to beg us to come back. It seems he had never counted up how many of us ate there in a day, 6-10 police, 12 firefighters, and three to four ems units, all spending about 10 bucks a pop. Other area restaurants give deep discounts to get us in the door, but we all like this guy's food and it's convenient to all of our stations.

If only we could have arranged a robbery, fire, or AMI. I think he'd have catered the stations LOL

P.S. This is Oldschoolmedic. I finally had to create a new account. I never did figure out what was wrong with the other. Dang, I'm a "ride along" again


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## VentMedic (May 20, 2008)

O'Shoot said:


> We had a restaurant owner that complained about emergency vehicles (police, fire, and ems) parking in his lot to the point we got tired of hearing about it. It took one week of a collective "Do Not Eat At L******'s" by all of the services for him to beg us to come back. It seems he had never counted up how many of us ate there in a day, 6-10 police, 12 firefighters, and three to four ems units, all spending about 10 bucks a pop. Other area restaurants give deep discounts to get us in the door, but we all like this guy's food and it's convenient to all of our stations.
> 
> If only we could have arranged a robbery, fire, or AMI. I think he'd have catered the stations LOL



It is sad that other people may have been discouraged from using the restaurant by lack of parking or the "special" treatment of EMS, FD and PD.  It is also sad that since some public service employees decided to make that their own personal restaurant that this business owner's revenue became so dependent on them.  It is also sad that instead of trying to work out a reasonable solution these "professionals" decided to hurt another working person with such hideous tactics.  It is also hard to believe that one would want bad luck such as a robbery, fire or AMI upon someone just to teach them a lesson all over a burger.

This is almost as sad as the EMS, FD and PD employees who wanted special treatment at the restaurants in every municipality but NYC the day after 9/11 while watching on TV those at Ground Zero work.


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## LE-EMT (May 20, 2008)

You wanna know why Security Guards have a bad attitude most of the time???  Because they take crap from people like you daedalus.    People who completely disrespect them and their authority on a daily basis.  People who think because they ride in a vehicle that says AMBO on it and has flashy lights that you get to do what ever and park where ever you want.  As for the cops telling him to shut his mouth.  If I were that security guard.  I would have trespassed those two cops and told them that if I saw them on my property again I would have them arrested.  I also would have had there cruiser towed.  as well as your ambo.  And it would have been entirely with in my jurisdiction to do so.  YOU sir are on private property as a consumer and I am an AGENT OF said MANAGEMENT.  Only in the event of an emergency or a crime do any of you take presidency over me.   You want to test me on that have fun spending the night in jail..  

This security guard probably handled things wrong.  Was probably too aggressive.  Probably had an attitude of his own.  BUT never the less You should always be the bigger person and walk away from it.  When I was in security when I requested some one do something and they gave me flack I just reminded them that it is with in my power to order them to do said thing.  But being as I am a civil human being I request their compliance if they choose not to comply I will be forced to take the necessary action to effect the completion of this action.   

Ie.... Would you please move your truck you are blocking Emergency access to the Fire lane.  Insert blah blah BS response..... My next response.  Move your truck or I will have it moved for you thank you.

This is a Professionalism issue.  The fact that you explained anything to him is mute.  You sir are breaking the law,  he is attempting to up hold the law.  He could have just ticketed you or towed you and not said anything.  But instead he said move your ride.  In my mind he went above and beyond his duties to do so.  So he was very professional and you well.............I would love to have had a voice recorder in your ambo Because I am sure you had nothing but polite things to say about him on your way down the road.


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## LE-EMT (May 20, 2008)

**DISCLAIMER**  
I am not in any way attacking daedalus.  He just happens to be the poor unfortunate soul that has pushed my Many Diverse selection of buttons this time.   This is actually directed to any one and every one who reads it.  daedalus is just getting the brunt of it because well he made the mistake.(of pushing said buttons)   Lead by example I always said even if that means make an example out of everyone.


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## BossyCow (May 20, 2008)

Now, if we could just put the testosterone on hold for a few seconds and look for a positive resolution to this issue:

Are you more upset over what appears to be unequal application of the rule or the security guard's attitude, or at having to change your parking habits at the local burger joint?

It seems to me that the whole situation could be quite easily resolved. Call the manager of the burger place. You know, the guy who hired the security guard. Commend the guard for his/her vigilance to his supervisor, ask the supervisor to clarify his perception of authorized use of the 'fire lane'. Explain that you meant no harm or disrespect but were trying to be respectful of the safety of other customers etc. Tell the mgr that you love their burgers as does everyone on your shift and you would hate to have to go somewhere else due to a silly parking issue. 

I bet if you work it right, you could come out of this with permission to park there and some coupons for free burgers.


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## karaya (May 20, 2008)

Another point to consider, and a more important one at that, is the EMS crew while out in public should look at themselves as ambassadors to the provider they serve.

Although they may disagree with the security guard, professionalism should always prevail.  If a request is made not to park in the lot, then the crew should respect the request in a civil and professional manner and just move on to another restaurant.  Don't let something as silly as parking your rig lower one's standard as an EMS professional.  It's the one's that don't follow this logic that contributes to giving EMS a black eye.


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## daedalus (May 20, 2008)

I think this got blown out of proportion. I treated the guard with the utmost respect and after explaining my side of the story, I obeyed his orders very politely. If you read my post, you would have seen that. My complaint is not that I dont get the right to use the fire lane as much as the fact that the guard applied his power unfairly towards myself and not the Police. Dont get me wrong, I do still feel that parking in that spot was my only option, and that I made the decision based on the fact that I was sure they would not mind because A, I wanted THEIR service and not the McDonalds a block down, and B I did not obstruct the public. My post was merely a venting to other EMS professionals about how we are at times treated like the red headed step child next to PD and Fire. I understand parking in the red is DE JURE illegal but atleast here in LA, it is DE FACTO policy and routinely practised by all agencies without harm or incident. Ventmedic, I think you are being unduly harsh. No one here suggested asking for special treatment, and even I find that notion deplorable. No one here has a hero attitude, and finding constant need to accuse us of it creates doubt in my mind about yourself.


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## daedalus (May 20, 2008)

LE-EMT said:


> **DISCLAIMER**
> I am not in any way attacking daedalus.  He just happens to be the poor unfortunate soul that has pushed my Many Diverse selection of buttons this time.   This is actually directed to any one and every one who reads it.  daedalus is just getting the brunt of it because well he made the mistake.(of pushing said buttons)   Lead by example I always said even if that means make an example out of everyone.



No, I appreciate your insights. Im glad to here a guard's side of the story. I would be pissed too if everyone with a red lightbar thought they could trample my authority. Although it may seem like I was guilty, I assure you my intentions were sincere. After hearing you I have decided to be much more careful in respect to parking in private property, and how I treat security.


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## CFRBryan347768 (May 20, 2008)

Just a side comment, go ahead and park their but if some one with any authorty over says move you move. That would be like a civilian parking in an EMS reserved spot only, if you tell/ask them to move do you want to hear an excuse....no. I believe that if you do something your not supposed to do Ex: Park in the fire lane and your told to move, well than why not just move? Arguing or making up excuses holds up both parties time, just move on and maybe next time you will get a security guard that will let you park their.


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## VentMedic (May 20, 2008)

daedalus said:


> Ventmedic, I think you are being unduly harsh. No one here suggested asking for special treatment, and even I find that notion deplorable. No one here has a hero attitude, and finding constant need to accuse us of it creates doubt in my mind about yourself.



Only one of my posts was directed directly at you.  I do not believe you can speak for everyone that I made general statements about.  

Your post just sounded like so many others that just want some justification for their actions.   It is good that you didn't get too confrontational with the security guard and you only need to be responsible for your own actions, not those of the cops.   Comparing yourself to the FFs and LEOs will only get you frustrated if you can not find satisfaction what your own title is.


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## karaya (May 20, 2008)

VentMedic said:


> Comparing yourself to the FFs and LEOs will only get you frustrated if you can not find satisfaction what your own title is.


 

Hear hear!!


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## TheDoll (May 20, 2008)

LE-EMT said:


> The "Fire lane" is in fact reserved for emergencies.  I commend the Security Guard for saying something.  I personally would have spoken with the cops as well.  If I were in his position and I have been.  I got my start at 18 as a rent a cop.  Wonderful job and those men and women get a bad wrap. They basically do the job of cops for crap pay, more head ache and NO respect.  I couldn't even begin to count how many times they have aided me or made my job easier.
> Every one looks down on them because of the movies and misconceptions.  But I will stop there because I could go on forever about the injustices they suffer.  Fact of the matter is although it is a minor infraction it is still a infraction.  Just because WE are marked units doesn't mean we can park any where we want.  Not to mention it is private property so its under his jurisdiction and can do what ever he wants to have you removed.  Ever seen an ambo towed.......Try explaining that to your sup's....


you make a really good point. also, i'm sure a lot of us know what it's like to work our asses off, be treated like crap, and have people still look down on us. 
in general i treat people with respect--ESPECIALLY, if they are working regardless of the job. i will even be more mindful of being polite to these individuals.  thanks for the heads up!


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