# Beards and AMR



## spm248 (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey all, wanted to know if anyone knew anything about working for AMR in California and what the company required as far as beards/grooming standards. I trying to decide where I want to start working soon and this is something I want to consider. I am a little attached to my beard (had it for about 7 years now  ). I searched through old threads but didn't get all that much on specifics. Obviously it needs to be neat and trimmed but I just wanted to hear anyone's actual experiences.

Thanks


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## BLSBoy (Feb 17, 2010)

Unprofessional. 
Hair, short. No facial hair other then a moustache, which needs to be trimmed and neatly kept. 
You will see that most _professionals_ look that way. 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to go back to being a long haired surfer that I was 5 years ago, but I am a professional now. Short hair, always clean shaven. 

You want the job, you will do what it takes to get it.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 17, 2010)

I have a full beard, had one in my interview and had one when I got the job offer, and I work at AMR. No problems with N-95. 

Obviously my branch if AMR is fine with facial hair.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Feb 17, 2010)

Linuss said:


> I have a full beard, had one in my interview and had one when I got the job offer, and I work at AMR. No problems with N-95.
> 
> Obviously my branch if AMR is fine with facial hair.



You didn't have to shave for medic school?

We have to be clean shaven every day or we get to dry shave over the trashcan in the back of the classroom.<_<


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## WolfmanHarris (Feb 17, 2010)

BLSBoy said:


> Unprofessional.
> You will see that most _professionals_ look that way.



You're kidding right? I'm all for proper grooming and professional attire but this comment is just asking for attention.

Please take a moment to look at the varied attire and grooming of the following as you come in contact with them:
- Physicians
- Lawyers
- Engineers
- Nurses
- Physiotherapists
- Teachers (at least here where they are a profession with a College)

Paramedics are only now becoming a self-regulated profession in some provinces here and I know that's not the case south of the border, especially with the abysmal education standards that dominate most jurisdictions.

Professionalism is a vital precursor to becoming a profession and part of that is presenting oneself well groomed and attired; that is not however the same as applying uniform and grooming standards rooted in a paramilitary structure. These standards may not themselves be a bad idea, but let's not confuse the concepts shall we?

Leaving that aside and returning to the OP's question. Regardless of your potential employer's policy regarding facial hair, do keep in mind that a full beard will prevent a proper seal on a respirator. If you chose to keep a goatee make sure to carefully trim it so that you will still pass a fit test.


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## spm248 (Feb 17, 2010)

*Respirator*

I don't want to sound ignorant (I am not yet an EMT so maybe I am. My course is next month) but is wearing a respirator primarily for fire dept work and the like? I have found more threads about this issue and everyone mentions getting a proper seal on a respirator. That's not really an issue in a 911 response ambulance company, correct? 

If I shave maybe the boys at the bar will start carding me again, that hasn't happened since I was 17


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## WolfmanHarris (Feb 17, 2010)

spm248 said:


> I don't want to sound ignorant (I am not yet an EMT so maybe I am. My course is next month) but is wearing a respirator primarily for fire dept work and the like? I have found more threads about this issue and everyone mentions getting a proper seal on a respirator. That's not really an issue in a 911 response ambulance company, correct?
> 
> If I shave maybe the boys at the bar will start carding me again, that hasn't happened since I was 17



N-95 particulate respirators are the dust mask looking things you'll be wearing quite often. In order to work effectively they must be properly fit tested to the wearer, the wearer must don them correctly and perform a user fit test.

An N-95 mask will not work effectively if facial hair is present where it needs to seal. Should be re-fit tested with any gain or loss of 10% or more of body weight, changes in face shape or structure (dental work) and regardless of any of the above once a year.

For the record I have a closely trimmed goatee and have had no problems with fit testing.


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## TransportJockey (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm going to be applying to AMR here in the Denver area soon and have a goatee. The best thing to do is ask during the interview and be prepared to shave it off if they say so


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## spm248 (Feb 17, 2010)

WolfmanHarris said:


> N-95 particulate respirators are the dust mask looking things you'll be wearing quite often. In order to work effectively they must be properly fit tested to the wearer, the wearer must don them correctly and perform a user fit test.
> 
> An N-95 mask will not work effectively if facial hair is present where it needs to seal. Should be re-fit tested with any gain or loss of 10% or more of body weight, changes in face shape or structure (dental work) and regardless of any of the above once a year.
> 
> For the record I have a closely trimmed goatee and have had no problems with fit testing.



Gotcha. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks for all the feedback.


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## VentMedic (Feb 17, 2010)

If your N-95 mask happens not to fit properly with your beard and you catch one of the nasty things it is supposed to protect against, you can sue your employer for allowing you to wear a beard or not informing you of hazards.   

The unfortunate thing about a fit test is that it is generally only done once a year and facial hair grows everyday.  Your test may be fine today but not tomorrow depending on how often you trim your beard and rate of growth.  A different style of respirator may have to be recommended to accommodate your changing beard growth.   Or, you can risk your health and that of your family.   Usually you may just become the carrier of whatever microorganism and your small child or elderly family member will be the one who pays for your right to have facial hair.   

Vanity needs to take a backseat to safety and either lose the facial hair or get a respirator that assures adequate protection for all levels of beard growth.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Feb 17, 2010)

Our emergency workers should reflect they community serve and diversity is an important part of that. However at the same time, if a full beard or other grooming/ appearance choice effects your ability to wear protective equipment then obviously you will have to modify yourself.


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## WolfmanHarris (Feb 17, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Vanity needs to take a backseat to safety and either lose the facial hair or get a respirator that assures adequate protection for all levels of beard growth.



Agreed. I shave and trim my beard daily. I'm meticulous about providing clearance for the two types of N-95's I am issued at work.

My employer has in house quantitative fit testing equipment and we are able to be fit tested on demand if we've had any changes that may alter the fit.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 17, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> You didn't have to shave for medic school?
> 
> We have to be clean shaven every day or we get to dry shave over the trashcan in the back of the classroom.<_<



Nope. Had to in EMT but not for medic. 

Even at my internship at the FD I dint have to as, and I quote the BC "Youre EMS, not fire, you don't have to worry about the scba"


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## VentMedic (Feb 17, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Even at my internship at the FD I dint have to as, and I quote the BC "Youre EMS, not fire, you don't have to worry about the scba"


 
LOL! You're kidding? And you did your *EMS* internship with that FD?

The better FDs do take infection control issues seriously.


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## Akulahawk (Feb 17, 2010)

He should have been fit-tested for the N95 respirator, but being that he's not fire, he wouldn't have to be fit-tested for SCBA use, unless he'd be with an active Hazmat Team while being a Paramedic Intern.


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## ah2388 (Feb 18, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> You didn't have to shave for medic school?
> 
> We have to be clean shaven every day or we get to dry shave over the trashcan in the back of the classroom.<_<



this


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2010)

Akulahawk said:


> He should have been fit-tested for the N95 respirator, but being that he's not fire, he wouldn't have to be fit-tested for SCBA use, unless he'd be with an active Hazmat Team while being a Paramedic Intern.


 

That was my point since this FD mentioned SCBA and not N95 masks which if they are doing EMS there should be more concern about things that pertain to the medical side and not just FIRE.


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## zmedic (Feb 18, 2010)

My ambulance service allowed goatees but not beards because of the N95. 

Interestingly there are no such rules in medical school, even though we had to get N95s. It tends not to be much of an issues since most of the docs don't have beards and unspoken peer pressure tends to keep us mostly shaven.


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## TransportJockey (Feb 18, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> You didn't have to shave for medic school?
> 
> We have to be clean shaven every day or we get to dry shave over the trashcan in the back of the classroom.<_<



Not all schools require clean shaven. I had my goatee for Basic and medic school. Just had to keep it neat and trim and able to pass an N95 fit test


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## Shishkabob (Feb 18, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> LOL! You're kidding? And you did your *EMS* internship with that FD?
> 
> The better FDs do take infection control issues seriously.



Could have sworn I already stated that I was fit-tested for an N95 without a problem, and as such there are no infection control issues to speak of...




jtpaintball70 said:


> Not all schools require clean shaven. I had my goatee for Basic and medic school. Just had to keep it neat and trim and able to pass an N95 fit test





Ditto.  Nothing wrong if you pass the test and it's clean.


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## VentMedic (Feb 18, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Could have sworn I already stated that I was fit-tested for an N95 without a problem, and as such there are no infection control issues to speak of...


 
This was your earlier quote. 



Linuss said:


> Nope. Had to in EMT but not for medic.
> 
> Even at my internship at the FD I dint have to as, and I quote the BC "Youre EMS, not fire, you don't have to worry about the scba"


 


Linuss said:


> Ditto. Nothing wrong if you pass the test and it's clean.


 
You stated you have a full beard.  Is it exactly the same length everyday?  How often are you fit tested?  Do you have the *same N95* mask available to you at each clinical situation especially at that FD?  If not, then there is a problem especially with someone who has a full beard who has not been fitted for the masks they have available.


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## Sasha (Feb 18, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> You didn't have to shave for medic school?
> 
> We have to be clean shaven every day or we get to dry shave over the trashcan in the back of the classroom.<_<



We had to be clean shaven too... man I miss my beard. Goodbye dreams of being a circus side show act 

Honestly I don't see how people can have beards.. don't they get itchy? I'd be paranoid about what icky could be lurking in the chin hair.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 18, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> This was your earlier quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FD said I didn't need to worry about SCBA as I wont be going in to a structure fire.  They didn't say I didnt have to worry about a properly fitting N95.


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## BLSBoy (Feb 18, 2010)

Sasha said:


> We had to be clean shaven too... man I miss my beard. Goodbye dreams of being a circus side show act
> 
> Honestly I don't see how people can have beards.. don't they get itchy? I'd be paranoid about what icky could be lurking in the chin hair.



When I had my on duty accident, I was unable to shave for over a week. 
I hated having a beard. Most I can go is 3 or 4 days without it getting annoying, and I hop in the shower and get it shaved.


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## piranah (Feb 18, 2010)

I have a goatee and have had no issues with the N-95...our requirements in school were to be trimmed and presentable at all times..period


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## fortsmithman (Feb 19, 2010)

Sasha said:


> We had to be clean shaven too... man I miss my beard. Goodbye dreams of being a circus side show act
> 
> Honestly I don't see how people can have beards.. don't they get itchy? I'd be paranoid about what icky could be lurking in the chin hair.



I don't have a beard.  It would bug the heck out of me.  I bet bothered when the hair starts growing.  I shave once a day face and top of head.  I have had coworkers consider drawing 3 holes on the back of my head for the bowling ball effect.


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## CARRERA (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm looking at a packet that I received from AMR when they came to my class and it says "No beards or goatees allowed, due to OSHA regulations".


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## reaper (Feb 19, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Could have sworn I already stated that I was fit-tested for an N95 without a problem, and as such there are no infection control issues to speak of...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry man, I do fit testing for N95's and I have never had anyone with a full beard pass the test. If there is hair any where the mask touches your face, it will not seal.

This has been proven. Same way that a SCBA cannot form a seal over hair and this is a much stronger and heavier seal, then a N95.

If your company allows this, that is their problem. But, this is your health that you are dealing with!


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## VentMedic (Feb 19, 2010)

reaper said:


> Sorry man, I do fit testing for N95's and I have never had anyone with a full beard pass the test. If there is hair any where the mask touches your face, it will not seal.
> 
> This has been proven. Same way that a SCBA cannot form a seal over hair and this is a much stronger and heavier seal, then a N95.
> 
> If your company allows this, that is their problem. But, this is your health that you are dealing with!


 
How many employers use quantative testing rather than qualitative? 

Qualitative tests rely solely on subjective reports of smelling or tasting a test agent introduced into a test chamber. If a person really wants to keep his facial hair, he may say whatever he needs to accomplish that. Or, he may believe that just a little leak won't matter. Some don't realize how small microorganisms can be that will get by a mask that does not have an adequate seal. Some hospitals make it a policy not to test men with facial hair for the regular N95 masks but rather give them access to a different respirator which has a full face mask or hood style. ​


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## Shishkabob (Feb 19, 2010)

Correction, not full beard, full goatee, as in my profile pic, my bad on the wording.


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## EMSLaw (Feb 19, 2010)

I disagree that beards are unprofessional.  I've had one from time to time, including now.

However, if you need to be able to wear a full-face mask, then you need to remain clean-shaven.  If I were in that situation, and wanted to keep my job, I'd shave.


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## Akulahawk (Feb 19, 2010)

Linuss said:


> FD said I didn't need to worry about SCBA as I wont be going in to a structure fire.  They didn't say I didnt have to worry about a properly fitting N95.


This is what I very much suspected. A Fire Department normally wouldn't allow a PARAMEDIC INTERN who is NOT A FIREFIGHTER WITH THAT DEPARTMENT to perform suppression or any activity that would require an SCBA. 


CARRERA said:


> I'm looking at a packet that I received from AMR when they came to my class and it says "No beards or goatees allowed, due to OSHA regulations".


It's just easier to require that men (and hairy women) be clean shaven than to write specifications for how much facial hair is allowable. 


reaper said:


> Sorry man, I do fit testing for N95's and I have never had anyone with a full beard pass the test. If there is hair any where the mask touches your face, it will not seal.
> 
> This has been proven. Same way that a SCBA cannot form a seal over hair and this is a much stronger and heavier seal, then a N95.
> 
> If your company allows this, that is their problem. But, this is your health that you are dealing with!


I've done N95 fit testing too. My experience matches yours. While we've had employees that had mustaches, those were NEVER allowed to extend beyond the corners of the mouth and they were required to keep their mustache neatly trimmed. We also did retest, and required that everyone be tested with all models of the N95 masks we had. This way we knew which masks fit which employees and each employee knew which masks fit him or her, and this was a required check-off item for unit check-out prior to service each day. I've seen goateed employees fail testing because of their facial hair... It was an eye-opener for them... because they thought they were getting a good seal.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Feb 19, 2010)

My buddy and I where just fit tested a few months ago, He shaved his goatee for it but when we took the test the guy running it told us that he has guys who pass it with a full goatee. 

I am guessing it depends on the shape of each persons face and how much of a goatee they got going on, if it comes in contact with the seal, as stated you risk failing the test.


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## LawKev (Apr 15, 2010)

*Beardism*

There are many people who wear a beard soley because of thier religion. Beards may be uncomfortable or "gross" to many Americans but this is a free society. Many Muslims and Sikhs for example wear full beards not out of vanity but because of there beliefs. The prime minister of india for example is a Sikh and he has a beard. I live in Queens, NY and this may be the most ethnically diverse place in the world. There are many Sikhs, Muslims and Jews here. They will wear a suit and tie with the beard. Who wrote the book on professionalism and said that just having hair on you face makes you unprofessional? Travel to India and the middle east and you will see many men with beards. This is the land of the free. We should not have to be enslaved to modern norms because that is not liberation. Many people feel that same way that I do but nobody wants to be the one to have to say it. I know many Muslim men who were turned down for jobs in Correction departments for example because of this mask seal issue. Is it really about safety or is it discrimination? Saftey is important but are'nt there masks that fit full beards? People in the west don't look a religion the same way that people in the east do. Some people revolve everything around their religion and not vise versa as strange as it may sound to some. I'm sorry but I had to say something because there are people stating that beards are not proffessional. So Abe Lincoln was unprofessional? Have you ever saw a picture of Jesus or Moses without a beard? If your a beardist then that's you personal problem. Don't bring it to the workplace.


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## LawKev (Apr 15, 2010)

*Beardism*

There are many people who wear a beard soley because of thier religion. Beards may be uncomfortable or "gross" to many Americans but this is a free society. Many Muslims and Sikhs for example wear full beards not out of vanity but because of there beliefs. The prime minister of india for example is a Sikh and he has a beard. I live in Queens, NY and this may be the most ethnically diverse place in the world. There are many Sikhs, Muslims and Jews here. They will wear a suit and tie with the beard. Who wrote the book on professionalism and said that just having hair on you face makes you unprofessional? Travel to India and the middle east and you will see many men with beards. This is the land of the free. We should not have to be enslaved to modern norms because that is not liberation. Many people feel that same way that I do but nobody wants to be the one to have to say it. I know many Muslim men who were turned down for jobs in Correction departments for example because of this mask seal issue. Is it really about safety or is it discrimination? Saftey is important but are'nt there masks that fit full beards? People in the west don't look a religion the same way that people in the east do. Some people revolve everything around their religion and not vise versa as strange as it may sound to some. I'm sorry but I had to say something because there are people stating that beards are not proffessional. So Abe Lincoln was unprofessional? Have you ever saw a picture of Jesus or Moses without a beard? If your a beardist then that's you personal problem. Don't bring it to the workplace.

bwt check out this link:

http://blogs.hcpro.com/osha/2009/04/sneak-peak-at-the-qa-roundtable/

peace


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## ExpatMedic0 (Apr 15, 2010)

I do not think having a beard is unprofessional, but if its interfering with your protective mask that your employer issues it is not discrimination.



LawKev said:


> There are many people who wear a beard soley because of thier religion. Beards may be uncomfortable or "gross" to many Americans but this is a free society. Many Muslims and Sikhs for example wear full beards not out of vanity but because of there beliefs. The prime minister of india for example is a Sikh and he has a beard. I live in Queens, NY and this may be the most ethnically diverse place in the world. There are many Sikhs, Muslims and Jews here. They will wear a suit and tie with the beard. Who wrote the book on professionalism and said that just having hair on you face makes you unprofessional? Travel to India and the middle east and you will see many men with beards. This is the land of the free. We should not have to be enslaved to modern norms because that is not liberation. Many people feel that same way that I do but nobody wants to be the one to have to say it. I know many Muslim men who were turned down for jobs in Correction departments for example because of this mask seal issue. Is it really about safety or is it discrimination? Saftey is important but are'nt there masks that fit full beards? People in the west don't look a religion the same way that people in the east do. Some people revolve everything around their religion and not vise versa as strange as it may sound to some. I'm sorry but I had to say something because there are people stating that beards are not proffessional. So Abe Lincoln was unprofessional? Have you ever saw a picture of Jesus or Moses without a beard? If your a beardist then that's you personal problem. Don't bring it to the workplace.


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## reaper (Apr 15, 2010)

The entire issue is saftey.  You cannot get a seal with a full beard. It is impossible.

This is not discrimination. No one cares about their religion. They care about the saftey. If they keep full beards for their religion, then they can choose another line of work. That is their choice to make. Why is discrimination always thrown out as an excuse, when some dont get their way?


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## LawKev (Apr 15, 2010)

Maybe you did not listen to the audio in the link before you posted. Did you here what was said about alternative masks and equal opportunity?


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## Markhk (Apr 15, 2010)

OSHA 1910.134(g)(1) specifically states, 

"The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function..."

What does this mean ultimately? 

- If a person has a beard, a N95 tight fitting respirator cannot be used
- A person with a beard with thus need to use an alternative device like a PAPR
- If a person has a well groomed goatee that does not touch the sealing surface of the respirator, then it can still meet the OSHA requirement for fit testing of a N95 respirator. 

AMR in my area did have some requirements for facial hair at one point...my understanding is that the dept did relax the requirements within the past year, lead to a new growth of healthy mustaches.


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## LawKev (Apr 15, 2010)

Markhk said:


> OSHA 1910.134(g)(1) specifically states,
> 
> "The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function..."
> 
> ...



I'm preparing to sit for the New Jersey EMT-B exam. I am a Orthodox Sunni Muslim and I have had  a beard for about 13 years. Could I purchase the PAPR mask myself and present it to a potential employer if there is an issue? Would that work or would it be a waste of time?

Thank You


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## Markhk (Apr 15, 2010)

Well, usually it's the employer who provides the respirator and it's their responsibility that the respirator gets properly tested, filters exchanged, etc. A PAPR is not a simple piece of equipment so the employer may be reluctant to allow an employee to buy their own. 

OSHA has tried to clarify the issue of religious beards and respirators, which you may find of interest:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22138

Importantly, per the interpretation, while OSHA and the Civil Rights Act don't require employers to provide a PAPR, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act might. 

Having said that, some EMS employees do provide PAPRs to their EMTs routinely, which is something you should investigate when you apply for a job. Good luck with the exam!


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## kecpercussion (Apr 16, 2010)

Here in AMR Riverside no facial hair below the mouth so:

Mustache is ok, but beard is a no no


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## LawKev (Apr 17, 2010)

Markhk said:


> Well, usually it's the employer who provides the respirator and it's their responsibility that the respirator gets properly tested, filters exchanged, etc. A PAPR is not a simple piece of equipment so the employer may be reluctant to allow an employee to buy their own.
> 
> OSHA has tried to clarify the issue of religious beards and respirators, which you may find of interest:
> 
> ...



Thanks


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## ExpatMedic0 (Apr 18, 2010)

For the Jewish guy,

If you get an interview I would play it cool and get through it your best, then at the end I would mention your beard/ religious beliefs and I would mention you could provide your own protective mask if needed for fit testing and work. goodluck


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## mcgrubbs (Apr 19, 2010)

I just interviewed last Friday with AMR here in NM.  As long as my N-95 fits correctly, then I can keep my well-kept goatee.  I'll find out tommorow morning.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 19, 2010)

mcgrubbs said:


> I just interviewed last Friday with AMR here in NM.  As long as my N-95 fits correctly, then I can keep my well-kept goatee.  I'll find out tommorow morning.



Is LC still the only AMR in NM? I know I worked in the northern portion of the state and never saw a single AMR rig (ABQ and up)


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## mcgrubbs (Apr 20, 2010)

AMR handles Otero County and Dona Ana County.

I did the lift test and physical this morning. My well-kept/trimmed goatee was just fine with a N-95 mask.




Also, just FYI.  My test was the 3-minute step-up/step-off w/ an old  step aerobic platform about 12-15" tall,  Then a series of lifts with 90lbs; floor to short platform, then to a higher platform, down to short platform, up to 40" off ground; then up and back down three stairs 3x.  All that was practice.

Do all the lifts again w/ 120lbs for real test.


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## Radioactive (Apr 21, 2010)

schulz said:


> For the Jewish guy,



I'd like to point out that Orthodox Sunni Muslim != Jewish.  :glare:


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## bstone (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm a Jewish guy with a beard. Never had no problems with N95, but that's cause my service never fitted us or trained us on it. I won't be rushing into a burning building any time soon, so SCBA isn't at issue for me.


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## VentMedic (Apr 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> I'm a Jewish guy with a beard. *Never had no problems with N95, but that's cause my service never fitted us or trained us on it.* I won't be rushing into a burning building any time soon, so SCBA isn't at issue for me.


 
As an EMT did you not get any type of infection control training in school or was none offered to you by your employer? Have you, an a healthcare worker not known of why an N95 is used? You do have the right to have personal protection equipment and you as an EMT should be able to take some responsibility for requesting it to protect yourself.

With the recent headline from Oakland, CA, AMR may take personal protection very seriously in the future. 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/20/BAR71D1FT0.DTL


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## bstone (Apr 22, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> As an EMT did you not get any type of infection control training in school or was none offered to you by your employer? Have you, an a healthcare worker not known of why an N95 is used? You do have the right to have personal protection equipment and you as an EMT should be able to take some responsibility for requesting it to protect yourself.
> 
> With the recent headline from Oakland, CA, AMR may take personal protection very seriously in the future.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/04/20/BAR71D1FT0.DTL




Nope. Never in my Basic or Intermediate schooling did they even talk about masks. My service and none of the coned I have ever done even mentioned the idea of N95. The first time I heard about it was when I was volunteering in the Gulf Coast after Katrina. Plenty of people then had beards and were wearing N95s. They had beards due to reasons like all the razors having been washed out to sea and there being no electricity due to the storm.


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## VentMedic (Apr 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> Nope. Never in my Basic or Intermediate schooling did they even talk about masks. My service and none of the coned I have ever done even mentioned the idea of N95.



Sad statement for EMS education or at least in your area.



bstone said:


> The first time I heard about it was when I was volunteering in the Gulf Coast after Katrina. Plenty of people then had beards and were wearing N95s. They had beards due to reasons like all the razors having been washed out to sea and there being no electricity due to the storm.



Our medical volunteers in Katrina still had some basic necessities to ensure their safety such as the proper mask and other personal protection for the conditions.  If you do not have the proper equipment or training and risk becoming a patient yourself, one should not enter into such a situation.  An EMT with no infection control training or any idea about masks as personal protection should NOT be allowed to volunteer until they do complete the proper training and have the proper equipment.


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## bstone (Apr 22, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Sad statement for EMS education or at least in your area.


You just might be right. Tho I went to two programs in states far apart from each other, so I guess my "area" is the United States.



> Our medical volunteers in Katrina still had some basic necessities to ensure their safety such as the proper mask and other personal protection for the conditions.  If you do not have the proper equipment or training and risk becoming a patient yourself, one should not enter into such a situation.  An EMT with no infection control training or any idea about masks as personal protection should NOT be allowed to volunteer until they do complete the proper training and have the proper equipment.



We were desperate for help and were not discriminating on the basis of not having been fitted for an N95 mask. Moreover, we didn't need to wear N95 masks in the clinics. You only needed them when you tried to walk into the remains of a structure which had black mold.


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## VentMedic (Apr 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> We were desperate for help and were not discriminating on the basis of not having been fitted for an N95 mask. Moreover, we didn't need to wear N95 masks in the clinics. You only needed them when you tried to walk into the remains of a structure which had black mold.


 
Were you in the group that came two weeks after?

For awhile there were many EMTs just showing up from who knows where claiming to be who knows what trying to be part of the action.


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## bstone (Apr 22, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> Were you in the group that came two weeks after?
> 
> For awhile there were many EMTs just showing up from who knows where claiming to be who knows what trying to be part of the action.



I was one of those EMTs who "just showed up". I ended up being pretty successful:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/41301
http://www.dce.harvard.edu/pubs/lamplighter/2006/spring/mississippi.html


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## VentMedic (Apr 22, 2010)

bstone said:


> I was one of those EMTs who "just showed up". I ended up being pretty successful:
> 
> http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/41301
> http://www.dce.harvard.edu/pubs/lamplighter/2006/spring/mississippi.html



If you have those qualifications, why haven't you suggested to your company and the local schools that they should instruct the EMTs on a little infection control?  Is it because of your beard? Is it that if you do take the fit test there is no way you will pass and would have to come up with another type of protection which might be at your cost?


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## bstone (Apr 22, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> If you have those qualifications, why haven't you suggested to your company and the local schools that they should instruct the EMTs on a little infection control?  Is it because of your beard? Is it that if you do take the fit test there is no way you will pass and would have to come up with another type of protection which might be at your cost?



Um, what? I did not understand your question. Please rephrase.


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## VentMedic (Apr 22, 2010)

If you have those qualifications *(all the education as stated in the news article*), why haven't you suggested to your company and the local schools that they should instruct the EMTs on a little infection control? 

Is it because of your beard? Is it that if you do take the *mask* fit test there is no way you will pass and would have to come up with another type of protection which might be at your cost?

In other words, someone with a beard will not or should not pass *(some lie to pass)* a mask fit test because a strand of hair is much thicker then the little microbe that can do harm to you.  If you have any of  the knowledge as stated in the article, are you afraid to request masks and infection control procedures be implemented as they might then bring your beard into question?   If your company doesn't provide respiratory protection now, there is a good chance you might be told to shave or buy your own.


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## bstone (Apr 22, 2010)

VentMedic said:


> If you have those qualifications *(all the education as stated in the news article*), why haven't you suggested to your company and the local schools that they should instruct the EMTs on a little infection control?
> 
> Is it because of your beard? Is it that if you do take the *mask* fit test there is no way you will pass and would have to come up with another type of protection which might be at your cost?
> 
> In other words, someone with a beard will not or should not pass *(some lie to pass)* a mask fit test because a strand of hair is much thicker then the little microbe that can do harm to you.  If you have any of  the knowledge as stated in the article, are you afraid to request masks and infection control procedures be implemented as they might then bring your beard into question?   If your company doesn't provide respiratory protection now, there is a good chance you might be told to shave or buy your own.



None of the above. I haven't brought it up or asked about it because I am currently not riding the bus. I am too busy in school to work on the bus. I do, however, participate in ConEd and am up on my NREMT cert.

I can't help but to notice, however, that your choice of words seems to cast doubt on my education level. Is it just me or are you suggestion just that?


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