# Surviving the cold



## JJR512 (Oct 6, 2010)

I'd like to introduce two hypothetical people. Person 1 is overweight (let's say ~275 pounds, six feet tall), and doesn't get much exercise. He has a lot of fat and not much muscle. Person 2 is the same height, ~200 pounds, is in good shape, gets regular of exercise, and has much more muscle mass and tone compared to Person 1. From these descriptions, one might assume that Person 2's metabolism is faster than Person 1's.

Now put these two guys in identical sweat pants and shirts, and have them stand outside next to each other in freezing cold (32 degrees F).

Which one is likely to "feel cold" sooner? Which one is likely to begin suffering from hypothermia sooner?


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## abckidsmom (Oct 6, 2010)

The more fit person will shiver more, and sooner, but will actually maintain an adequate body temperature for longer.  That's my guess.


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## foxfire (Oct 7, 2010)

my first line of thought is.....
The fit guy would prolly feel the cold first. But maintain adequate heat well due to higher motablism. Plus if he is knowledgeble of diets, then he would know what to eat in order to supply energy to stay warm. 

Not sure about the large guy. Logic would say that he is insulated and would not loose heat too quickly. But due to the lower amount of muscle to fat. He would not be able to continue to stay warm by shivering, or moving about. I have seen a good many overweight people run around in light cloths in the dead of winter. AND complain about places being too hot. 

My two cents worth. Would love to hear others points of view and what the answer truly is.


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## EMS49393 (Oct 7, 2010)

I was a lot hotter when I was fat.  

Not exactly written how I meant it.  Let me try again.  It stands to reason the fit man would be able to maintain his temp longer, however in my own experience, I am a lot colder this fall then I was last fall, so my money is on the fat guy sustaining his weight longer.


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## foxfire (Oct 7, 2010)

EMS49393 said:


> I was a lot hotter when I was fat.
> 
> Not exactly written how I meant it.  Let me try again.  It stands to reason the fit man would be able to maintain his temp longer, however in my own experience, I am a lot colder this fall then I was last fall, so my money is on the fat guy sustaining his weight longer.



You have a very good point. 
I have experienced the same thing. Since losing weight, I feel the cold a whole lot more. Seems to me there are too many variable to pin point and say "yep _that_ guy will feel the cold more"


EMS49393 said:


> so my money is on the fat guy sustaining his weight longer.


Do you mean weight or core heat?


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## TraprMike (Oct 7, 2010)

:lol:32 degrees F... "freezing cold"..:lol:

we just start wearing light jackets in MN at that temp..


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## JJR512 (Oct 7, 2010)

First, I just want to make it clear that this wasn't a quiz; I don't know the correct answer. I was hoping to find that out.

I also realize there are a lot of variables. As much as possible, I'd like to suggest "all else being equal". In other words, neither person has a higher risk factor for hypothermia (extreme of age, for example), other than what's been explained here.

I just looked up the hypothermia article at Wikipedia to see if that said anything. Here's the only thing really relevant that I found, and this is from a book source:


> Heat is primilarily generated in muscle tissue, including the heart, and in the liver, while it is lost through the skin (90%) and lungs (10%).[14] Heat production may be increased 2 to 4 fold through muscle contractions ( i.e. exercise and shivering ).



The fact that heat is produced primarily in muscle tissue (which the in-shape guy has more of), and heat is primarily lost through the skin (which the in-shape guy has less of), both seem to suggest that the person who is in better shape will survive the longest. He can produce more heat, and retain it better. I'm not sure if that means he will "feel cold" before or after the other guy, though. But I guess that's really hard to say, since that's subjective.


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## Aidey (Oct 7, 2010)

Just a suggestion, spend some time on pubmed.com instead of Wikipedia.


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## JJR512 (Oct 7, 2010)

TraprMike said:


> :lol:32 degrees F... "freezing cold"..:lol:
> 
> we just start wearing light jackets in MN at that temp..



Uh, yeah...32 degrees F is the temperature at which water freezes. That's elementary-level science, and if you really are an EMT-B, you should know that.

Please understand that I used "freezing" as a technical term, rather than just saying "very cold", which could mean 50 degrees to someone from Hawaii while maybe someone from Minnesota would think I meant 0. That's why I was technically specific. Regardless of how you would personally describe 32 degrees F, doesn't change the fact that it _is_ freezing. And no matter how used to it you are, if you stay out in it in just a light jacket long enough, you _will_ die. So good luck with that.


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## JJR512 (Oct 8, 2010)

Aidey said:


> Just a suggestion, spend some time on pubmed.com instead of Wikipedia.



No. If I type in "hypothermia" at Wikipedia, I get directly to an article that discusses hypothermia. Maybe not every single fact in minute detail ever learned by any medical scientist ever, granted, but a nice general-purpose article. If I type in "hypothermia" at this pubmed.com place, I get 33,127 links to articles about very specific topics that might relate to hypothermia somehow. If I want a basic article on hypothermia, I don't want to have to pick from 33,127 articles that discuss various specific aspects of it. On the other hand, if I want more after reading the article at Wikipedia, then I can just follow any of the source citations.


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## TraprMike (Oct 8, 2010)

*chill out...*

:lol:


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## Aidey (Oct 8, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> No. If I type in "hypothermia" at Wikipedia, I get directly to an article that discusses hypothermia. Maybe not every single fact in minute detail ever learned by any medical scientist ever, granted, but a nice general-purpose article. If I type in "hypothermia" at this pubmed.com place, I get 33,127 links to articles about very specific topics that might relate to hypothermia somehow. If I want a basic article on hypothermia, I don't want to have to pick from 33,127 articles that discuss various specific aspects of it. On the other hand, if I want more after reading the article at Wikipedia, then I can just follow any of the source citations.



But the article from Wikipedia and the source citations didn't answer your question, so instead of doing any more research on it, you ask here, apparently expecting us to do the work for you. I would think that you have realized by now that no one is sure about their answer, and they are all guesses. You asked a specific question about hypothermia, you are going to need to go to a source that answers specific questions to get an answer. 

Considering induced hypothermia is currently being intensely researched my guess is that if you do some research on the methods you will find the answer to your questions, since the researchers are going to look at cooling rate differences in different groups of people.


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## EMS49393 (Oct 8, 2010)

foxfire said:


> You have a very good point.
> I have experienced the same thing. Since losing weight, I feel the cold a whole lot more. Seems to me there are too many variable to pin point and say "yep _that_ guy will feel the cold more"
> 
> Do you mean weight or core heat?



I meant heat.  You know if I wasn't freezing right now, I bet my brain would work much better!


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## JJR512 (Oct 8, 2010)

Aidey said:


> ...so instead of doing any more research on it, you ask here, apparently expecting us to do the work for you.


I didn't ask here instead of doing any _more_ research on it, I asked here instead of doing _any_ research on it. I asked here first. And I don't expect anyone to do any "work" for me. I didn't even _ask_ anyone to do any work for me. I asked two questions, expecting _only_ that if someone already knew the answer, they _might_ take the time to reply. Or that if someone had what they felt was an intelligent guess, they would post it and explain it. That's not an expectation of anyone to do anything at all, other than posting a reply, which is the same expectation that everyone has when they post any question at all on a message board. And if _that_ expectation is too much, then what's the point of having a message board in the first place?



> I would think that you have realized by now that no one is sure about their answer, and they are all guesses. You asked a specific question about hypothermia, you are going to need to go to a source that answers specific questions to get an answer.


The question is only a few days old and I'm not in a hurry. I'm especially not in a hurry to start trying to sort out which of the 33,127 articles is the one that would help. This isn't really a big deal for me. If nobody knows the answer, that's fine with me. Neither my life nor any grade depends on it. I just randomly became curious about it, and it was worth the minute or so it took me to write the question and post it, but it really isn't worth spending hours trying to find this needle in that haystack.

Don't get me wrong...I've bookmarked that site, and if I ever need to do in-depth research on a medical issue, I'll be sure to go there. But for this, it's really not that big of a deal. Thanks!


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## FrostbiteMedic (Nov 9, 2010)

TraprMike said:


> :lol:32 degrees F... "freezing cold"..:lol:
> 
> we just start wearing light jackets in MN at that temp..


Having been to MN and having family in Foley, I can tell you that ya'lls 32F is NOT the same as our 32F. Up there it is a dry cold. Down here we have a "wet" cold.....and trust me....I would rather take 10 below up there than 15F here.


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## Jackson (Nov 16, 2010)

TraprMike said:


> :lol:32 degrees F... "freezing cold"..:lol:
> 
> we just start wearing light jackets in MN at that temp..



pffft. I pull out my jacket when it hits 70ish. Then again, I live in SC where currently it is the middle november and 69F.


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## firetender (Nov 17, 2010)

Fat guys are organs wrapped in insulation.
Skinny guys are organs wrapped in Saran Wrap.

Skinny guys freeze and thaw faster.
(Just ask Jeffrey Dahmer!)


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## MrBrown (Nov 17, 2010)

When the fat guy dies he will become food, score!


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## lightsandsirens5 (Nov 17, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> When the fat guy dies he will become food, score!



There are no words in the English language to formulate a reply to this..........it is almost akin to dividing by zero.


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## MrBrown (Nov 17, 2010)

If Brown is stuck in some freezing *** yonder with fatty and fatty dies, hello, do you think Brown is going to lay down and die from starvation when he would want to get home to Mrs Brown? 

....altho that orange jumpsuit is pretty snug looking


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## DaintyFlight (Nov 17, 2010)

*Just leaping on in on the conversation here.... my mom was really over weight like severely and she had the gastro bypass ever since that surgery she freezes her tail off NO MATTER IF ITS HOT OUT SIDE, she complains its cold..... so I guess it would just depend on the person regardless  I mean sheesh  I was born in raised in Bakersfield California and it gets super hot there! my mom would probably go in hypothermia with out her jacket on when its 110 outside LOL*


*I on the other hand I'm a polar bear and love to be in the cold and sleep with a fan on me.  bring on the hypo / thermia  minus the frost bite please *


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Nov 17, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> If Brown is stuck in some freezing *** yonder with fatty and fatty dies, hello, do you think Brown is going to lay down and die from starvation when he would want to get home to Mrs Brown?
> 
> ....altho that orange jumpsuit is pretty snug looking



Hmmm sounds good with a nice Chianti, sphhhhhh


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