# Gay in EMS?



## EMERG2011 (Jun 20, 2008)

Hello Everyone, I go to college in Washington, and I've noticed that, in my interactions with DC/Arlington/Maryland EMS, there are a lot of openly gay EMTs in the area. I consider myself a pretty progressive guy, and I think that its great that they feel safe being open with their co-workers. I was just curious what the general opinion was out in the rest of the country/world was of gays and lesbians working in EMS. I realize that not all jurisdictions are as liberal in their policies and the opinions of their members, but I'm curious what its really like out there. Thanks!


----------



## CFRBryan347768 (Jun 20, 2008)

Very touchy subject, and I don't really see a good legit reason to even post this but here it goes. 

I could care less what they are, they could be a purple monkey but if they do their job well then who cares?


----------



## firecoins (Jun 20, 2008)

I have known several gay and lesbian EMS workers.  some were open, some weren't.  Not a big deal.


----------



## Dominion (Jun 20, 2008)

The service I work for has MANY openly gay/lesbian techs/medics/officers.  I am a progressive person so even outside of work this doesn't bother me, but at work.  As long as they can perform their job correctly, I don't care.  That's how MOST of the people I work with feel.


----------



## el Murpharino (Jun 20, 2008)

As long as they provide quality patient care, their sexual preference shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## JPINFV (Jun 20, 2008)

I consider myself fairly conservative (well, in the words of one of my favorite talk show hosts, "more conservative than liberal, more libertarian than conservative, and more cynical and skeptical than anything else"), but I couldn't care less who my partner wants to boink at night. It's simply none of my business and I don't consider it an issue.


----------



## EMERG2011 (Jun 20, 2008)

CFRBryan347768 said:


> Very touchy subject, and I don't really see a good legit reason to even post this but here it goes.QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Well, consider this. Some people might consider EMS a more "macho" field, which would sterotype as being less than accepting towards gays and lesbians. I'm not trying to stirr up a fuss, but as a gay man working in EMS, I wanted to know if what I've seen in Washington was the norm, or if it was just a happy concidence.


----------



## akflightmedic (Jun 20, 2008)

EMS macho field???

Interesting, never thought that or heard that. Now firefighting, yes I agree...EMS, no.

To address your question, as long as they do the job I do not care what their preference is. I remember a stretch of time where I was asexual, only preferred myself...no one seemed to care about that either   

Now if you asked about openly gays/lesbians in the fire service, that opens an entirely different thread because that culture is full of machismo. It is rare to find the openly gay FF...they exist but they are rare to be open about it. On the flip side (double standard time) I have met may lesbian firefighters that were quite open about it and they were accepted/welcomed with open arms....hmmmm.


----------



## MSDeltaFlt (Jun 20, 2008)

EMERG2011 said:


> Hello Everyone, I go to college in Washington, and I've noticed that, in my interactions with DC/Arlington/Maryland EMS, there are a lot of openly gay EMTs in the area. I consider myself a pretty progressive guy, and I think that its great that they feel safe being open with their co-workers. I was just curious what the general opinion was out in the rest of the country/world was of gays and lesbians working in EMS. I realize that not all jurisdictions are as liberal in their policies and the opinions of their members, but I'm curious what its really like out there. Thanks!



I doesn't matter.  And I couldn't care less.


----------



## mikeylikesit (Jun 21, 2008)

well i guess you get the empathy of a female with the shell of a male and it makes a good combo. it wouldn't make me uneasy to work a 24 hour shift with a homosexual...cause sexual harassment is sexual harassment weather it be gay on straight, women on man or man on women.


----------



## MMiz (Jun 21, 2008)

I've found gay people working in every job that I've had since I started working at the age of fifteen.  Over the years I've worked with several gay EMS partners.

I've *never* had a gay coworker act in a manner which would make the patient think that the medic was gay.

Our private service had policies that applied to everyone.  Applicants really were hired based on how good they were as an applicant, not on their sexual orientation.

I started working EMS while I was in college, and it was definitely an eye opener.  It's the first time I saw and heard many things, both from my patients and coworkers.  I soaked it all in, and it made me a better EMT and person.


----------



## Guardian (Jun 21, 2008)

Like everyone else here, it makes no difference to me either.  In fact, I often thought they made really good ems personnel because it helps to be a little manlier than the average women and a little more sensitive than the average guy.  In all seriousness, it’s a nonissue.  You would be surprised at how many homosexuals work in all the branches of public service.  And not all of them are easily detectable.  But again, it’s really just a nonissue today.  Nobody cares.


----------



## daedalus (Jun 21, 2008)

It should matter little to anyone what their partner's sexual preferences are, and it should not affect how anyone does their job. CFR Brain, I do not see this as a touchy subject.


----------



## dschambers3 (Jun 21, 2008)

I don't think this is a touchy subject, either.  I say kudos to someone saying this. I have also noticed a higher percentage of open gay and lesbian EMS workers. Heck, the first Paramedic I ever worked with on an ambulance was gay.  He is an outstanding Paramedic and an awesome person to work and talk with.   He is a good friend of mine and a major influence for me to pursue my Paramedic patch.  I think the most important thing is to have Pride in who you are and your quality of work and care towards pts. That goes for every person.


----------



## karaya (Jun 21, 2008)

Gays in EMS? Gays in the military? Gays in food services? Gays here, gays there. I agree with MSDeltaFlt on this one; it doesn't matter and I could care less.

And some of the responses on this thread are just plain hilarious. They make it sound as if a homosexual is from another country.


----------



## firecoins (Jun 21, 2008)

karaya said:


> They make it sound as if a homosexual is from another country.



There are homesexuals from other countries too.  Except for Iran. The don't have that problem I am told.  http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hATGOzv6YSmgeMY1zdYbdpyrG2cw


----------



## daedalus (Jun 21, 2008)

firecoins said:


> There are homesexuals from other countries too.  Except for Iran. The don't have that problem I am told.  http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hATGOzv6YSmgeMY1zdYbdpyrG2cw


No, they don't/ Remarkably, Iran is able to prevent homosexuals from being born in their country. They must be on to something here.


----------



## Jon (Jun 22, 2008)

I've got to second the motion.

I've worked with gays and lesbians. Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Witches. Conservatives, Moderates, Liberals, and Socialists. Blacks, Whites and many shades between.

When we are in uniform.... we are 1 color: BLUE. We need to be united, and personal prejudices have no place in this job. Although I've had some interesting theological and political discussions with some of my partners over the years.



As for working with a gay/lesbian co-worker:
I know one openly gay EMT in my area - good guy, knows what he's doing. His sexual orientation has nothing to do with how he treats patients.


----------



## Pittsburgh Proud (Jun 22, 2008)

firecoins said:


> I have known several gay and lesbian EMS workers.  some were open, some weren't.  Not a big deal.



I agree, why would it be a big deal... No issue with me at all. Know your skills no matter who or what choice of partners you have.

If you know what your doing then I'll run with you....


----------



## Alexakat (Jun 22, 2008)

Makes no difference to me...in EMS or in any other area of life...


----------



## Ops Paramedic (Jun 24, 2008)

Since you asked "in the rest of the world", well...

We have a lot of gays and lesbians in the service, but then again we also have a lot of this and that.  My point is that ones sexual preference (whatever it is) should have no influence on anyone else, as long as you do not try and "enforce" it them.

I have some great friends that batting for the other side and vice versa, and we all respect each other, hell we joke about it more than anything else!!


----------



## mycrofft (Jun 25, 2008)

*I'm heartened reading this.*

I've seen more EMS folks get into trouble heterosexually. And, since sexuality is not always openly advertised even today, sportsfans, you are surronded by folks who are gay and you don't even know it, the true but untestable measure of the ridiculousness of that sort of prejudice.
I served with gay folk...let me rephrase that. I was aware that some folks I served with in the military were gay, I don't know how may others may have been because it wasn't my business, but no one got into trouble due to it except one...he died of AIDS. I'd have gone to war with them, no trouble.
And, no, I AM hetero male. (photos not available despite requests...)


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 25, 2008)

Personally, I feel it is wrong. As a Christian my values is that is of that too, now; with that saying there is a lot of things that I believe is wrong as well, such as cheating on your spouse, having an unhealthy lifestyle, not helping your fellow man, and so on. 

Does this mean I am going to treat any person worse or to shun and criticize them? No. It means, it is against my values and with such I will not condone their lifestyle. Because of my faith and attempt to practice what I believe, means I treat everyone with respect, love, kindness that each person is entitled to and deserves. 

Being in EMS, as well as healthcare I too have "gay" friends, and partners in EMS that were homosexual and even transgendered. They knew my views and stance, but I have never "bashed" anyone. Alike my own personal life, I do not discuss "private details" that are only for my mate and myself, I respectfully do not want to hear or discuss such events with anyone else gay or straight. I do not brag about my own sexuality, my sexual life, my desires, etc. I just respect the same from everyone else, no matter straight or gay. 

I know it may be a rarity, but I really do believe when one places the uniform on they are no longer gay, female, male, Black, White, Hispanic, short, tall and so on. They are representing the profession. I want that individual to be performing their job, skills, and have the knowledge and talent to do so; really that is why we are there. 

Too many people fail to understand one can disagree with other persons views or lifestyle but still respect each other. It is not that hard to agree to disagree, and still treat each other civil and with dignity. 


R/r 911


----------



## wolfwyndd (Jun 25, 2008)

EMERG2011 said:


> [snip]I'm not trying to stir up a fuss, but as a gay man working in EMS, I wanted to know if what I've seen in Washington was the norm, or if it was just a happy coincidence.


I'm not sure I'd say it's a happy coincidence, however, after running for a while back in the DC area and now running out in SW Ohio, I'd say it's more an issue of where you live.  I ran with several gay guys and one lesbian (that I knew of) when I was back in DC.  Unfortunately, the ONE lesbian I knew of out here got fired.  They made up some BS excuse of 'budget cuts' or some crap like that, but IMO, they didn't like her because she was openly bisexual and dating a woman.  So they fired her and the three people that STRONGLY supported her.  Gays and lesbians out here in the midwest are, overall, considerably more closested about their sexual preferences and it's because this area is considerably more. . . . . . .bass ackwar . . . . . I mean, conservative.  Discrimination and bigotry are, unfortunately, alive and well out here in the midwest.


----------



## BossyCow (Jun 25, 2008)

Funniest quote on the topic I ever heard was in an interview with the late Molly Ivins, a syndicated columnist. She said... "In west Texas, the gays stay in the closet, not because of being gay, but because they're afraid people will think they are democrats"


----------



## mikie (Jun 25, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I know it may be a rarity, but I really do believe when one places the uniform on they are no longer gay, female, male, Black, White, Hispanic, short, tall and so on. They are representing the profession. I want that individual to be performing their job, skills, and have the knowledge and talent to do so; really that is why we are there.



Couldn't have said it better.  I keep my personal life outside of the dept and when the tones hit, we have training or anything FD/EMS related function- it's about who we are as professionals (per se........volunteers (like myself) are included). 

Say for example I have a complete homophobe or anti-Semitic patient....it might 'bother me,' but it would take nothing away from my patient care or professionalism.


----------



## triemal04 (Jun 25, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I know it may be a rarity, but I really do believe when one places the uniform on they are no longer gay, female, male, Black, White, Hispanic, short, tall and so on. They are representing the profession. I want that individual to be performing their job, skills, and have the knowledge and talent to do so; really that is why we are there. R/r 911


This get's tossed around a lot, but, kind of have to wonder how many of the people who say it really believe it and actually practise it.  (not pointing any fingers at you, your's was just the most recent time it was said)

I only bring it up because there are lots of similar sayings out there, from the "everyone who I work with is my brother" (despite the numerous people who get stabbed in the back by coworkers) to "I'll do anything for my partner" (except when it's something that would cause real hardship to them) that get tossed around and never get backed up with actions.  It's real easy to say something, but to actually live up to it is a lot harder, and, unfortunately, it's a part of EMS, Fire, and the Police culture to say things like this, while at the same time, many people just pay lip-service to it without doing anything.

Don't really know where I'm going with it.  Just wondering.


----------



## GonnaBeEMT (Jun 26, 2008)

I think the people to ask this question would be the patients......The ambulance service as well as hospitals in my area will not hire people with visible tattoos or multiple body piercings because they say it just projects a negative appearence to the public.  I agree that people working in EMS should be presentable and behave in a manner that is acceptable to the public so they do not hesitate to call when they need help.  

I really think this may be an area that all businesses are afraid not to hire someone, because a lot of openly gay people are very bold and verbal about gay rights and such.  

I do not have any tats or piercings and I am not gay but I think it is wrong not to hire people with tats and piercings because some people do not think that there appearence is acceptable and overlook gays because they are afraid of recourse. 

 I know a lot of elderly and religious people that wouldn't want either of the groups that I mentioned taking care of them.


----------



## karaya (Jun 26, 2008)

GonnaBeEMT said:


> I know a lot of elderly and religious people that wouldn't want either of the groups that I mentioned taking care of them.


 
Oooooh! My crystal ball sees a fire storm of posts coming from this comment!


----------



## GonnaBeEMT (Jun 26, 2008)

karaya said:


> Oooooh! My crystal ball sees a fire storm of posts coming from this comment!



Yes.. sometimes you just got to stir things up a little lol


----------



## Jon (Jun 26, 2008)

GonnaBeEMT said:


> I know a lot of elderly and religious people that wouldn't want either of the groups that I mentioned taking care of them.



OK... I'll start.

Tattoo's, piercings, etc are physical marks on the body... and are visible (unless covered)... Sexual orientation is "inside"... as far as the patient is concerned... keep it "don't ask, DON'T TELL" *period*. The patient doesn't need to know. It doesn't matter, as long as you are competent. Now is a bigot asks... well, I don't know. Maybe you can have a smartass answer ready... I guess I didn't think about that part.


----------



## mikeylikesit (Jun 26, 2008)

GonnaBeEMT said:


> I think the people to ask this question would be the patients......The ambulance service as well as hospitals in my area will not hire people with visible tattoos or multiple body piercings because they say it just projects a negative appearence to the public. I agree that people working in EMS should be presentable and behave in a manner that is acceptable to the public so they do not hesitate to call when they need help.
> 
> I really think this may be an area that all businesses are afraid not to hire someone, because a lot of openly gay people are very bold and verbal about gay rights and such.
> 
> ...


i have 7 tattoos and two piercings. Four tatts are on my forearms. i have yet to encounter a patient that i could not strike up a great conversation based on my tattoos. i usually get "so what does that one mean" or grandma going "i have one to...see". my appearance in no way shape or form denotes my abilities. granted i always wear a suit to the interview so that they cannot tell but none the less. I wear the suit to show them my character before they have a chance to judge me off my tattoos, that way when they do see that i have them they usually say, "wow, I'd of never guessed.


----------



## GonnaBeEMT (Jun 26, 2008)

Jon said:


> OK... I'll start.
> 
> Tattoo's, piercings, etc are physical marks on the body... and are visible (unless covered)... Sexual orientation is "inside"... as far as the patient is concerned... keep it "don't ask, DON'T TELL" *period*. The patient doesn't need to know. It doesn't matter, as long as you are competent. Now is a bigot asks... well, I don't know. Maybe you can have a smartass answer ready... I guess I didn't think about that part.



I guess I should have said "visibley gay" some people call them "flaming".  That, is visible and some men or women might be leary of calling a ambulance.


----------



## Jon (Jun 26, 2008)

I know what you are talking about... but can you really tell? Espicially if the person is wearing the same uniform everyone else is, and only asking you "patient care related" questions?

The patient might get a feeling... but I highly doubt they would say anything, or even ask... because that would be beyond gauche.


----------



## GonnaBeEMT (Jun 26, 2008)

I live in the deep south and this may be wrong and I don't completely agree with it, but men are expected to act like men and women are supposed to act like women, and anything out of the norm is questionable.  The same kind of opinion goes for a lot of other social behaviors.

I have been in the military and been to lots of places and I have seen the different opinions in different regions so I am pretty much oblivious to most things.  But its not about me and my views....its all about the patient.


----------



## daedalus (Jun 26, 2008)

GonnaBeEMT said:


> I live in the deep south and this may be wrong and I don't completely agree with it, but men are expected to act like men and women are supposed to act like women, and anything out of the norm is questionable.  The same kind of opinion goes for a lot of other social behaviors.
> 
> I have been in the military and been to lots of places and I have seen the different opinions in different regions so I am pretty much oblivious to most things.  But its not about me and my views....its all about the patient.


 
The "men should act like men" ideology is RAPIDLY dissolving. Almost universally, everywhere, we have the general public and media openly embracing those who traditionally were the "scum" of society. One only has to turn on the TV and see at least a few gay/lesbian couples an hour on the larger networks. As the medical professionals most of us aspire to be, we should take the AMA and APA's position on the matter while we are at work serving as medical professionals. For those that do not know, the American Medical Association, and the American Psychological Association's offical stance on the matter concludes that Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder, and that gays and lesbians probably have little or no choice in being "gay". At home/church/whatever, I don't care, but at work act like a medical professional.


----------



## BossyCow (Jun 26, 2008)

daedalus said:


> The "men should act like men" ideology is RAPIDLY dissolving. Almost universally, everywhere, we have the general public and media openly embracing those who traditionally were the "scum" of society. One only has to turn on the TV and see at least a few gay/lesbian couples an hour on the larger networks. As the medical professionals most of us aspire to be, we should take the AMA and APA's position on the matter while we are at work serving as medical professionals. For those that do not know, the American Medical Association, and the American Psychological Association's offical stance on the matter concludes that Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder, and that gays and lesbians probably have little or no choice in being "gay". At home/church/whatever, I don't care, but at work act like a medical professional.



Well put Daedalus! It's a matter of professionalism. If your appearance is lycra and flip flops with the tat of a rainbow colored unicorn visible in the low neckline of your blouse, it shouldn't matter what your gender or sexual orientation is, you are being inappropriate. 

As for the comment about 'flaming' that is a very slippery slope. An effeminate male or a masculine female, very well may be heterosexual in sexual orientation. I personally have met many of both the above both in EMS and out. 

The problem I have with the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy is that this still limits the right of homosexual partners to openly display affection. For example, when I visit my husband on shift, or drop him off outside the station at the start of shift, it's perfectly acceptable for us to exchange a brief hug or kiss goodbye. How many of you would be comfortable with a homosexual couple engaging in the same exchange? I'm not talking about a juicy tongue wrestling display, but a simple exchange of affection. 

To me, its absolutely immaterial. I pick my friends based on their intelligence and personality, not their sexual orientation. The bridal shower for my first marriage was hosted by a gay couple I had known for years and I'm hosting a shower for a lesbian friend who is having a commitment ceremony this summer. My sons have openly homosexual friends of both genders and just like the heterosexual friends,as long as they are intelligent, well behaved and don't leave their beer bottles in the driveway, they are welcome.


----------



## CFRBryan347768 (Jun 26, 2008)

Jon said:


> Maybe you can have a smartass answer ready... I guess I didn't think about that part.



Hmm...I wonder what would have happend if some one else had said that. Probaly another lecture on forum rules.


----------



## Hastings (Jun 26, 2008)

CFRBryan347768 said:


> Hmm...I wonder what would have happend if some one else had said that. Probaly another lecture on forum rules.



What do you mean? I think that's actually a solid suggestion. I have to do the same thing when patients question me about my age, since I have youthful looks. It works.


----------



## firemedic7982 (Jun 26, 2008)

GonnaBeEMT said:


> I live in the deep south and this may be wrong and I don't completely agree with it, but men are expected to act like men and women are supposed to act like women, and anything out of the norm is questionable.  The same kind of opinion goes for a lot of other social behaviors.



This has nothing to do with your geographcal locale. This is not directed towards you, but I get sick of the "Southern", or " Bible Belt" is different culture. I am a native Texan. I have a family cattle ranch in South Texas. I have grown up in Houston, the 4th largest City in the U.S. in an upper middle class area. I have a college education. 

... Point is geographical location has nothing to do with ignorance, prejudice, pre concieved notion, or meaness. 

As A southerner, a Texan, a devout republican, a devout catholic, and An Openly Gay FF/ Medic I have not had a problem with people at work because of my sexual orientation.

Religious views, socio economic status, sexual orientation, color, creed, etc. Has NO basis on who we are as people. We didnt chose who we are, or anything about us. We are all made in the image of a higher being. Those of us who wear the uniform be it FF/Medic/ or Leo all have the same job to do, and are a part of our own special little family that outsiders dont understand. 

My sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with my job. I can put a fire out, and work a code just as well as a heterosexual. If you dont make it a huge issue, it wont be a huge issue. The people you work with should love you just as much as the next person, and if they want to treat you badly because of your sexual orientation, or any other reason for that matter; you probably sholdn't be spending your time with them in the first place.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 26, 2008)

firemedic7982 said:


> This has nothing to do with your geographcal locale. This is not directed towards you, but I get sick of the "Southern", or " Bible Belt" is different culture. I am a native Texan. I have a family cattle ranch in South Texas. I have grown up in Houston, the 4th largest City in the U.S. in an upper middle class area. I have a college education.
> 
> ... Point is geographical location has nothing to do with ignorance, prejudice, pre concieved notion, or meaness.
> 
> ...



I take offense of some of your statements. As well, I believe you are double talking. Just because I may not believe in your lifestyle, does not mean I am ignorant, prejudicial as well I am from the South & proud to be from the "Bible Belt". Although, I agree with your generalized statement; because of geography one should not make assumptions, one does have recognize local community standards .. like it or not, or even being considered right or not. 

I now ask (without being demeaning; just more of a curiosity), you describe yourself as a devout Catholic, and a conservative Republican.. all which standards and underlying beliefs and practices are quite opposite of yours.. What is the attraction? Do you only take a portion of their doctrines, or segments of what you believe? Then if that is so, how can you describe to be a "devout" in any of those mentioned? 

R/r 911


----------



## BossyCow (Jun 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I take offense of some of your statements. As well, I believe you are double talking. Just because I may not believe in your lifestyle, does not mean I am ignorant, prejudicial as well I am from the South & proud to be from the "Bible Belt". Although, I agree with your generalized statement; because of geography one should not make assumptions, one does have recognize local community standards .. like it or not, or even being considered right or not.
> 
> I now ask (without being demeaning; just more of a curiosity), you describe yourself as a devout Catholic, and a conservative Republican.. all which standards and underlying beliefs and practices are quite opposite of yours.. What is the attraction? Do you only take a portion of their doctrines, or segments of what you believe? Then if that is so, how can you describe to be a "devout" in any of those mentioned?
> 
> R/r 911



Catholicsm doesn't mean you can't be gay. Otherwise all those priests would have been tossed out on their ears. I was also taught in my earlier years in parochial school (I'm no longer catholic btw) that in the case of a contradiction between our own personal internal beliefs and codes and church doctrine, we were supposed to follow our own consciences. 

As to being a devout republican, I don't recall anything in the republican party platform that states gays are illegal. While there may be issues regarding the legality or justification for some gay rights, if every republican who disagreed with a plank in the platform were not considered republican, it would become one of those fringe parties like the green party or communists.


----------



## JPINFV (Jun 26, 2008)

As far as the problem of reconciling personal beliefs and religious doctrine, my belief is that just because I consider something wrong or immoral doesn't necessarily mean that I need, have to, or should judge another person. A person's sexuality may impact their relationship with God, but that is between God and them. This is the exact same problem that I have with the Republican's social agenda. That said, my economic conservative side beats my social liberal side.


----------



## mikeylikesit (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't have any comment now since i know very little about Catholicism or politics. If you can't tell...then whats the difference. I know he stated that he was open about it but I'm sure he doesn't walk around talking about guys all day in an inappropriate way, just the same that i don't walk around talking inappropriately about women all day. cause in the end sexual harassment is the same no matter what side of the fence your on.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 26, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Catholicsm doesn't mean you can't be gay. Otherwise all those priests would have been tossed out on their ears. I was also taught in my earlier years in parochial school (I'm no longer catholic btw) that in the case of a contradiction between our own personal internal beliefs and codes and church doctrine, we were supposed to follow our own consciences.
> 
> As to being a devout republican, I don't recall anything in the republican party platform that states gays are illegal. While there may be issues regarding the legality or justification for some gay rights, if every republican who disagreed with a plank in the platform were not considered republican, it would become one of those fringe parties like the green party or communists.



No one said illegal however; part of the emphasis, and attractiveness of conservatism is traditional base values. This is why the heated debate between liberal and conservatives about gay marriages, abortions, etc. Again, the main emphasis and usually considered one of the points between liberalism and conservatism. As most that acclaim to be one or the other but in reality are alike everyone else ...middle of the road. Most do not really understand their parties true platform or even what the difference is. Especially in relation to capitalism and liberal governmental programs. 

Not being, Catholic I could not argue but wonder how could one have internal beliefs and personal practices of one thing and to teach to practice another. Would this not be considered hypocrisy? The main direction of Doctrines is to enforce Biblical emphasis into a structure form. Again for organization, structure, philosophies, and mission statements.

R/r 911


----------



## Jeremy89 (Jun 26, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> Catholicsm doesn't mean you can't be gay. Otherwise all those priests would have been tossed out on their ears. I was also taught in my earlier years in parochial school (I'm no longer catholic btw) that in the case of a contradiction between our own personal internal beliefs and codes and church doctrine, we were supposed to follow our own consciences.
> 
> As to being a devout republican, I don't recall anything in the republican party platform that states gays are illegal. While there may be issues regarding the legality or justification for some gay rights, if every republican who disagreed with a plank in the platform were not considered republican, it would become one of those fringe parties like the green party or communists.



Bossy,

you are correct in saying Catholics can be gay, but the sin occurs when one acts upon said feelings.  I take offense at your comment about the priests.  I can't figure out why everyone thinks that every single priest out there is a perv just because some 40 year old all of a sudden had "lost memories" about his time as an altar boy.  The fact of the matter is that (this is just an estimate) less than 5% of priests actually have done something to altar boys.  After all, how do you disprove this in a court??  its the priest's word against the victim...guess who everyone feels sorry for?   Just some things to think about

Not trying to turn this into a debate, but rather open up a second viewpoint to the issue.


----------



## Jon (Jun 26, 2008)

Hastings said:


> CFRBryan347768 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm...I wonder what would have happend if some one else had said that. Probaly another lecture on forum rules.
> ...



Thanks Hastings... I guess I am suggesting having some sort of snappy comeback ready that turns the situation into a joke.



Oh... and by the way... I'll top anyone's issue with being Catholic... I'm a _*Boy Scout*_ leader.


----------



## daedalus (Jun 26, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> No one said illegal however; part of the emphasis, and attractiveness of conservatism is traditional base values. This is why the heated debate between liberal and conservatives about gay marriages, abortions, etc. Again, the main emphasis and usually considered one of the points between liberalism and conservatism. As most that acclaim to be one or the other but in reality are alike everyone else ...middle of the road. Most do not really understand their parties true platform or even what the difference is. Especially in relation to capitalism and liberal governmental programs.
> 
> Not being, Catholic I could not argue but wonder how could one have internal beliefs and personal practices of one thing and to teach to practice another. Would this not be considered hypocrisy? The main direction of Doctrines is to enforce Biblical emphasis into a structure form. Again for organization, structure, philosophies, and mission statements.
> 
> R/r 911


I have met many gay republicans. I usually have a humorous quote for them, from a mentor I met in high school. He said "The only thing more backwards than a black republican is a gay republican". Dennis is black so he gets away with saying that. 

Anyways, I find conservative gays a little strange, but than many people find me strange. I try to look at the broader picture of the matter. At any rate, I can see rid/ryder's confusion.


----------



## firecoins (Jun 26, 2008)

firemedic7982 said:


> As A southerner, a Texan, a devout republican, a devout catholic, and An Openly Gay FF/ Medic I have not had a problem with people at work because of my sexual orientation.


A  Catholic and openly gay?  Okay.   



Ridryder911 said:


> I now ask (without being demeaning; just more of a curiosity), you describe yourself as a devout Catholic, and a conservative Republican.. all which standards and underlying beliefs and practices are quite opposite of yours.. What is the attraction? Do you only take a portion of their doctrines, or segments of what you believe? Then if that is so, how can you describe to be a "devout" in any of those mentioned?
> 
> R/r 911



A Republan need not be a conservative.  1 is a politcial part an 1 a social movement.  There are RINOs. I am a registered republican. I am economically conservative and socially liberal.  I have mentioned my atheism before so I can not be religiously conservative.


----------



## mikie (Jun 26, 2008)

I know it's a firefighter...but it still applies!


----------



## Jon (Jun 26, 2008)

mikie333 said:


> I know it's a firefighter...but it still applies!


Exactly... as I said... in EMS, we are all Blue.


----------



## JPINFV (Jun 26, 2008)

Jon said:


> Oh... and by the way... I'll top anyone's issue with being Catholic... I'm a _*Boy Scout*_ leader.



I was a boy scout, a little league player (we had a judge who was an umpire molesting boys in the county I grew up in), and an altar server.


----------



## AlaskaEMT (Jun 26, 2008)

If you're a homosexual citizen and are against high taxation, big government, illegal immigration, (& many other issues conservatives oppose) ... should you vote Democrat?  Of course not!  The only reason the Republican Party has adopted traditional Christian doctrine is because Christians make up a large portion of their base.  

Also, sexual orientation makes no difference in job performance, since this discussion is about "Gay in EMS".  I'm not convinced it's genetic ("born gay"), however, I also believe a man can (and should) do whatever he pleases within the privacy of his own property.  It's what we call a victimless crime.  Same goes with seatbelt laws and the like.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 26, 2008)

AlaskaEMT said:


> Same goes with seatbelt laws and the like.



That is a actually a victim crime.. someone pays for the injuries that could had been prevented, loss of life, property and such.. but I understand your intent...

R/r 911


----------



## akflightmedic (Jun 27, 2008)

Sorry, 'no seatbelt' is not a victimless crime.

Thanks for the opportunity to educate...I have been on quite a few MVCs in my career and I have seen firsthand the damage done to other passengers in the vehicle that were struck by the unrestrained driver.

Even had a seatbelted fatality thanks to the non belted driver striking the passenger.

This is why everything is strapped down in my ambulance, helo, airplane, you name it. Projectiles come in all shapes and sizes and we must be aware of these hazards.

Situational awareness at all times.


----------



## AlaskaEMT (Jun 27, 2008)

Then I'm obviously referring to a driver without a passenger.  I'm afraid you're missing the point of victimless crimes.  If someone chooses to destroy their body with copious amounts of drugs every day, that's their prerogative.  However, the second they decide to go driving while high, they are no longer the only person at risk.

Now, in countries with socialized medicine, the argument can be made that all matters pertaining to bodily harm have victims because every citizen shares the cost of healthcare, but that's not the case with America... yet.


----------



## BossyCow (Jun 27, 2008)

*Victimless? I don't think so!*



AlaskaEMT said:


> Then I'm obviously referring to a driver without a passenger.  I'm afraid you're missing the point of victimless crimes.  If someone chooses to destroy their body with copious amounts of drugs every day, that's their prerogative.  However, the second they decide to go driving while high, they are no longer the only person at risk.
> 
> Now, in countries with socialized medicine, the argument can be made that all matters pertaining to bodily harm have victims because every citizen shares the cost of healthcare, but that's not the case with America... yet.



Hmmm. so when the unbelted driver ejects the vehicle and ends up on state/fed/county dole for the rest of their lives, due to the brain injuries, there's no victim? As long as those who chose to abuse their bodies end up being cared for at the expense of the government, we are all victims. 

Starting with the EMS responders who have to clean up the mess on the road, the cost of the Troopers doing the accident investigation, lets move on to the increased costs of car insurance for all of us because of the unrecoverable losses paid on the crash by the insurer. We can go on to the staff at the ER, OR, Trauma Center, then on to the rehabilitation center where the poor driver who made a personal choice that affects 'only him' is cared for by a bevy of employees who are all paid, by a company who is only going to be reimbursed what Medicare/Medicaid feels is appropriate and will have to make up the balance by upping prices to those private citizens who are unfortunate enough to have been too fiscally responsible to qualify for state assistance. 

Tell me again about 'victimless crime'


----------



## BossyCow (Jun 27, 2008)

> Not being, Catholic I could not argue but wonder how could one have internal beliefs and personal practices of one thing and to teach to practice another. Would this not be considered hypocrisy?



Well, it would by you, which is probably why you are not a practicing catholic. The point was much as democracy, there is a built in mechanism in the doctrine to address what happens when the power structure or governing body of an institution goes awry. It is inherent on the individual to base their behavior on what they believe to be 'right'. as they define it, as opposed to the 'just following orders' philosophy. Also why there is the rite of absolution, for when those decisions are made incorrectly on the part of the individual.



> The main direction of Doctrines is to enforce Biblical emphasis into a structure form. Again for organization, structure, philosophies, and mission statements.



It is in more fundamentalist doctrines, but not all doctrines follow the biblical emphasis as literally. Again different perspectives and interpretations, which is why there are so many different faiths.


----------



## Tincanfireman (Jun 27, 2008)

Getting into this one a little late, but I think a person's sexuality has as much bearing on their desirability as a partner as their hair color.  If you're there to help me when I need it, I don't care what you do or who you do it with when you peel out of your clothes.


----------



## KEVD18 (Jun 27, 2008)

well this ones going south real fast....


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 27, 2008)

AlaskaEMT said:


> Then I'm obviously referring to a driver without a passenger.  I'm afraid you're missing the point of victimless crimes.  If someone chooses to destroy their body with copious amounts of drugs every day, that's their prerogative.  However, the second they decide to go driving while high, they are no longer the only person at risk.
> 
> Now, in countries with socialized medicine, the argument can be made that all matters pertaining to bodily harm have victims because every citizen shares the cost of healthcare, but that's not the case with America... yet.



Actually everyone pays. The average traumatic brain injury patient that survives costs a little over $5.2 million for their first average seven years. Now, do whom do you think pays for this when over half of America is uninsured or better yet, nearly all medical policies are maxed out at a million dollars. This is not also considering no job, no income, extra assistance on medical care at home, food, specialty devices, etc. and so on. 

As a ER manager I can assure you the costs is shared by all. The reason band aids are $6.00 a piece is because over 70% of the customers in the ER will not pay for their bill, so guess who gets to pay for it? .... YOU! 

Why do you think Morphine costs $25 an injection when it only costs 75 cents from the pharmacy? ... No, because such a mark up, but rather to re-coop the losses... 

I personally believe if they want to not wear a seat-belt or helmet, etc. then they can sign a waiver, but if they are in a accident they receive no insurance or receive medical care up to what they can afford. The rest is on their own.. as well no government benefits. They had a choice.. (of course this was satire). 

R/r 911


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 27, 2008)

This is not directed to one particular person but in general. I have seen many posts about homosexuality in other EMS forums. Ironically, it is usually always started by someone proclaiming such lifestyles. Again, alike publicity, the parades, or even open discussion; I wonder why even asking if you want to be treated as an equal? 

I and others do not ask if one has a problem being straight ... or have a straight parades to announce our sexuality, or have symbols to alert or inform others? I just find it curious that many would acclaim that they want to be acknowledge as the norm.. when majority of people do not participate or even discuss such events on a daily basis. 

Sometimes I feel it is that some want attention for their lifestyle, when in fact most (alike myself) could care less. 

Again, another curious moment.. 

R/r 911


----------



## BossyCow (Jun 27, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> This is not directed to one particular person but in general. I have seen many posts about homosexuality in other EMS forums. Ironically, it is usually always started by someone proclaiming such lifestyles. Again, alike publicity, the parades, or even open discussion; I wonder why even asking if you want to be treated as an equal?
> 
> I and others do not ask if one has a problem being straight ... or have a straight parades to announce our sexuality, or have symbols to alert or inform others? I just find it curious that many would acclaim that they want to be acknowledge as the norm.. when majority of people do not participate or even discuss such events on a daily basis.
> 
> ...




There are not straight parades, but then the straight people are able to sit next to each other watching any parade, able to hold hands, snuggle together or even place their arms over their partners' shoulders. A luxury not afforded to those of different sexual orientations. 

There are many symbols of 'straightness' that are open in our society, from the license plate holders announcing that 'Joanie loves Chachi', to the photo frames designed to hold the wedding photos on your desk at work, to a complete section in the greeting card bin 'to my husband' or 'to my wife'. 

Those of us who's choice in partner runs along more socially acceptable lines are blissfully unaware of the multitude of little ways in which the homosexual community is denied the simple expression of the love/affection they feel for their partner. There's not enough love and respect between people in this world in my opinion for us to deny a part of humanity the right to openly express theirs.


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jun 27, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> There's not enough love and respect between people in this world in my opinion for us to deny a part of humanity the right to openly express theirs.




Statements and opinions like that can cause a slippery slope.. many unapproved type of sick relationships (pedophile, incest, bestiality) have acclaimed the same reason, albeit it very offensive in almost all cultures, this is the reason they describe as it should too be legalized and accepted.  

When I went through criminal investigation and SANE courses, this is the explanation most organizations use. Yes, it is w-a-y out of context, but they still attempt to compare. 

R/r 911


----------



## CFRBryan347768 (Jun 27, 2008)

BossyCow said:


> There are not straight parades, but then the straight people are able to sit next to each other watching any parade, able to hold hands, snuggle together or even place their arms over their partners' shoulders. A luxury not afforded to those of different sexual orientations.
> 
> There are many symbols of 'straightness' that are open in our society, from the license plate holders announcing that 'Joanie loves Chachi', to the photo frames designed to hold the wedding photos on your desk at work, to a complete section in the greeting card bin 'to my husband' or 'to my wife'.
> 
> Those of us who's choice in partner runs along more socially acceptable lines are blissfully unaware of the multitude of little ways in which the homosexual community is denied the simple expression of the love/affection they feel for their partner. There's not enough love and respect between people in this world in my opinion for us to deny a part of humanity the right to openly express theirs.



   Why can they not do it(placing arms and showing public affection), is it our fault they feel ashamed, or even feel scared, it is their lifestyle let them live the way they want, if they want to feel ashamed because people will not accept them thats is no ones fault but their own, do they not have a backbone to present them selves the way THEY want, and those who don't its their own problem.
   As for the license plates, and the t-shirts and any other possible thing you can think of, how are they denied that right, or ashamed of that right, did license plate manfuactors across the world say they will not print that, or the kiosks that make shirts that say,"I love so and so" did they refuse them service, no.
    Frankly, its their own fault if they can't be as open as straight people. and secondly didn't this start off as Gay in EMS?


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jun 27, 2008)

CFRBryan347768 said:


> and secondly didn't this start off as Gay in EMS?



Yes it did.


----------



## EMERG2011 (Jun 28, 2008)

*Theres a reason....*



CFRBryan347768 said:


> Why can they not do it(placing arms and showing public affection), is it our fault they feel ashamed, or even feel scared, it is their lifestyle let them live the way they want, if they want to feel ashamed because people will not accept them thats is no ones fault but their own, do they not have a backbone to present them selves the way THEY want, and those who don't its their own problem.
> As for the license plates, and the t-shirts and any other possible thing you can think of, how are they denied that right, or ashamed of that right, did license plate manfuactors across the world say they will not print that, or the kiosks that make shirts that say,"I love so and so" did they refuse them service, no.
> Frankly, its their own fault if they can't be as open as straight people. and secondly didn't this start off as Gay in EMS?




      I've been sitting back on the sidelines for most of this conversation, and I see where the dialogue is going at this point. While I agree that people should just live their lives, I have to point out a few key points here. In many parts of the country it is IMPOSSIBLE for "us" to live out our lives, due to violence against gays, institutionalized homophobia (anti-sodomy laws, lack of laws prohibiting firing on the basis of sexual orientation, etc.), and the fear of such radical elements as the Westboro Baptist Church.  
       In America, there's still a lot of societal baggage in dealing with homosexuality, not the least of which is the widespread use of the term "gay" to describe something un-cool or weird. Suicide rates in homosexual teens is four times higher than the national average, and of those teens that survive their attempt, almost all of them report "not being able to cope" with societal stigma, parental rejection, or being a pariah as the primary motivation behind their attempt. In short - there are a lot of reasons why its more difficult for gays in America. Personally, I believe that taking the same non-violent approach as the civil rights movement is the right thing to do here - visibility breeds familiarity, which in turn breeds acceptance.


Now, can we all get back to the EMS front?


----------



## daedalus (Jun 28, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Statements and opinions like that can cause a slippery slope.. many unapproved type of sick relationships (pedophile, incest, bestiality) have acclaimed the same reason, albeit it very offensive in almost all cultures, this is the reason they describe as it should too be legalized and accepted.
> 
> When I went through criminal investigation and SANE courses, this is the explanation most organizations use. Yes, it is w-a-y out of context, but they still attempt to compare.
> 
> R/r 911



Thats not a fair comparison for a single solid reason. Legit gay couples are comprised of two unrelated persons whom affectionately and consensually love each other. Read that carefully. It does not apply to incest, pedophiles, or bestiality. A healthy gay couple encompasses all I have just mentioned, and we strive to make it our standard.

I also stand by my original comments on gays and EMS. Read the professional organization's stances (APA, AMA), live up to your role as a medical professional, and treat your partners and co workers with respect, and if you happen to be gay yourself, treat your co workers with respect just as they should you.


----------



## firemedic7982 (Jun 30, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> I and others do not ask if one has a problem being straight ... or have a straight parades to announce our sexuality, or have symbols to alert or inform others? I just find it curious that many would acclaim that they want to be acknowledge as the norm.. when majority of people do not participate or even discuss such events on a daily basis.
> 
> Sometimes I feel it is that some want attention for their lifestyle, when in fact most (alike myself) could care less.
> 
> ...




Your basing your views of the gay people in general on the media exposure of a few. You think gays are all about "parades", and little symbols, and rainbow flags? If this is the case ( which Im sure you are going to stand right back up on your soap box like you always do) and say thats not what you meant. I support gay pride parades. As long as my rights are not equal to yours, they can have a parade. And that goes for anyone. Its not about marching aroung pressing our sexuality on you. Thats the kind of biggoted attitude that holds this country back. You had immigrant ancestors into this country at some point, and they too were discriminated against for being different. 

And dont sit here and play the "I dont care, no one cares card" Bull S&^%$ ! Every last sylabal of it is assenine. You do care, If you didnt youd be standing in line to sign petitions for equal rights with everyone else. Do not hide behind the "that's the way I was brought up" card, or the religion card. Everyone is responsible for there own actions, and words. PERIOD! not your upbringing, what your minister tells you to think and say. No one but US can tell ourselves what to think and do. Thats what makes us different from the animals, although some of us act like neanderthals and animals. 

For those of you who keep saying you don't care. Why are you sitting here defending yourselves?


----------



## ffemt8978 (Jun 30, 2008)

And that's enough of this topic....

It was a discussion about being gay in EMS, not on the homosexual lifestyle.


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 22, 2008)

*Out in EMS.*

So I know that this is a "controversial" topic on this forum (It shouldn't be.)but after reading some older posts and more recent ones as well I wanted to begin this discussion. I am a 34 year old EMT-I student. I struggled for a long time to come to terms with being gay. So here is the question. What experiences have you all had in the field with working with "OUT" coworkers? I am NOT asking for your opinions on wheather or not being gay is right or wrong I am just asking about your own personal experience (if any) GOOD OR BAD. I have read some post that I would perceive as being negative in relation to homosexuallity and wanted to get an impression about what I can expect when  entering the field. My experience so far (in class) has been very positive but I have already been in several situations where guys have talked about a certain girl or noticed a girl walking by...or pointed out a particular part of a girls anatomy etc etc etc (This has been a little uncomfortable). I do feel a little out of place with all the testosterone filled guys around. Personally I won't lie to someone who asks me about my sexuallity but I don't necessarily offer the information either unless a situation requires it. I won't ever go back into the closet but I'm not an "in-your-face about who I'm sleeping with" kinda guy. That said, I am proud of who I am...I love being gay. It does somewhat define many aspects of my life. So....at the risk of beginning a firestorm thread...What are your thoughts? Let's keep it friendly Mkay?

Robby
Las Vegas
EMT Student


----------



## KEVD18 (Jul 22, 2008)

as i have said more times than i can count, i dont care whether my partner is male female gay straight fat thin young old black white or purple, if they can do the job then its all good.

i have worked with several homosexuals. some were open about it, some werent. i honestly didnt care. but you will run into problems with ignorant bigots who cant handle working in such close quarters with you. i have nothing to offer you in that regard since i never had a problem with it and have never experienced it from your side. good luck though...


----------



## reaper (Jul 22, 2008)

There has been prior discussion on this and I thought it was very positive. I have the same feeling as KEVD18. I just don't care, as long as you can do your job. 

I have worked with several openly gay partners, male and female. I have never had a problem with it and get along great with all of them. Yes, you will find some backwoods good Ol'boys that can't handle it. If you are working in bigger cities, I don't think you would have a problem.

I'm sure you have dealt with this before. I would feel out the people you work with and decide for yourself if you want to tell them. To me, what you do in your off time is none of my business.


----------



## traumateam1 (Jul 22, 2008)

KEVD18 said:
			
		

> as i have said more times than i can count, i dont care whether my partner is male female gay straight fat thin young old black white or purple, if they can do the job then its all good.


That's exactly it. It doesn't matter to me, as long as they can do their job then everything is all good. I've never let any of that become a problem. If someone isn't doing their job right we will have a talk. It's not because of their race or sexual preference, it's because they aren't doing their job right.
As far as my personal experience.. I have worked with a few people who are openly gay and everything was all good.


----------



## scottgsxr97 (Jul 22, 2008)

I also agree, it doesn’t matter.  I have worked with a few openly gay people over the years and it is no different then working with anybody else.  Sometimes you get along with coworkers and sometimes you don’t.  As you mentioned, you’re not an in-your-face kind of a person and most people don’t like religion, politics, etc. pushed on them so I don’t feel you will have a problem with most people.  Just focus on the work and show respect for your coworkers and hopefully they will do the same.


----------



## JPINFV (Jul 22, 2008)

I've had homosexual partners who I had a blast working with as well as homosexual partners that I absolutely despised working with. Their sexuality does not, and should not, play a role in a work relationship.


----------



## EMERG2011 (Jul 22, 2008)

I asked a very similar question about a month or so ago, and got some pretty positive responses. In Washington DC, where I'm based, its a complete non-issue. Excluding myself, I know about a dozen openly gay EMTs and Paramedics working, who say that it shouldn't be a problem. As long as you dont act like the stereotypical "screaming" Jack McFarland, I think you'll be ok dude. Hope this helps!


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jul 22, 2008)

Why do we have to keep repeating the same thing? .. Is there some validation one is looking for? Again & again, majority of the people in EMS really don't give a darn as long as you keep it to yourself.. straight or gay!

R/r 911


----------



## KEVD18 (Jul 22, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Why do we have to keep repeating the same thing? R/r 911




1) people cant or refuse to search the archives.

2) the people that can search also feel that their lights/stethoscope/tattoo/sexuality/etc situation is so vastly unique so as to warrant a new thread regardless of the amount of identical threads already in existence.

3) the "community leaders" refuse to do anything about it.


did i miss anything????


----------



## Pittsburgh Proud (Jul 22, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> as i have said more times than i can count, i dont care whether my partner is male female gay straight fat thin young old black white or purple, if they can do the job then its all good.
> 
> i have worked with several homosexuals. some were open about it, some werent. i honestly didn't care. but you will run into problems with ignorant bigots who cant handle working in such close quarters with you. i have nothing to offer you in that regard since i never had a problem with it and have never experienced it from your side. good luck though...






Yep, I too have said I could care less but I do care what your skill level is.... 
Black, white, male, female, straight or gay I honestly could care less....

Are you good at what you do? I'm all about top notch skills....


----------



## CFRBryan347768 (Jul 22, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> 1) people cant or refuse to search the archives.
> 
> 2) the people that can search also feel that their lights/stethoscope/tattoo/sexuality/etc situation is so vastly unique so as to warrant a new thread regardless of the amount of identical threads already in existence.
> 
> ...



4) People are looking for what they want to hear to make themselves feel better??


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 22, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> Why do we have to keep repeating the same thing? .. Is there some validation one is looking for? Again & again, majority of the people in EMS really don't give a darn as long as you keep it to yourself.. straight or gay!
> 
> R/r 911



I actually posted this thread because of comments that I read by Ridryder911 who seems to be on an exceptionally high horse. Forgive me if I'm just a dumb newbie. Why would I want to be a part of a forum that is so down on the new people that join? 

As I stated in my post, I did actually "do a search" and read through comments on this topic for 2 hours and had this additional question. And by the way, I never asked what people thought about being gay. What I asked for was what experiences people have had with coworkers. This question is certainly a far cry from what you call "seeking validation".


----------



## CFRBryan347768 (Jul 22, 2008)

Robby1974 said:


> I actually posted this thread because of comments that I read by Ridryder911 who seems to be on an exceptionally high horse. Forgive me if I'm just a dumb newbie. Why would I want to be a part of a forum that is so down on the new people that join?
> 
> As I stated in my post, I did actually "do a search" and read through comments on this topic for 2 hours and had this additional question. And by the way, I never asked what people thought about being gay. What I asked for was what experiences people have had with coworkers. This question is certainly a far cry from what you call "seeking validation".



This was covered and your question was coverd too. Therefore annoying members because this was an issue that should not have been brought up again as your question was basically answered. Secondly no one is down on the new people, introduce your self and post intellegent posts and I am sure you will make friends in no time. Lastly, what is wrong with a high horse if you have the knowledge to back it up?


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 22, 2008)

KEVD18 said:


> 1) people cant or refuse to search the archives.
> 
> 2) the people that can search also feel that their lights/stethoscope/tattoo/sexuality/etc situation is so vastly unique so as to warrant a new thread regardless of the amount of identical threads already in existence.
> 
> ...



If I thought my situation was so "unique" as you say why would I ask what other people in the field have experienced? Obviously I am aware that am not in a unique position. I did a search and I said as much in the question. Why would this question bother you? If you don't want to rehash the question then feel free to move on to another topic.


----------



## Jon (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi Robby,

Welcome to EMTLife.

We had this discussion - _*Last *_month. It became a discussion of the homosexual lifestyle and everyone's personal opinions...and some borderline personal attacks. The CL team decided that locking the thread was the best option.

 I'm going to merge this thread with that one... and unlock it - in case anyone has anything additionally _*worthwhile *_to add...

If we have problems... the thread will be locked again.


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 22, 2008)

Jon said:


> Hi Robby,
> 
> Welcome to EMTLife.
> 
> ...




Hey Jon!

Thanks for the welcome! 
Merging the thread is a good Idea. I actually posted the topic again because this thread had been closed and I couldn't reply here so this is great!

Thanks again and yes everyone lets keep it friendly!


----------



## wchawkins (Jul 23, 2008)

You know, I am not an EMT yet, but to be honest, whether the people I work with are homosexual or not, does not matter.  I have worked with homosexuals in the past in previous jobs here and there.  Truthfully, as long as they know what they are doing, and can do it well, go for it.


----------



## BossyCow (Jul 23, 2008)

I see a similarity between this thread and the one about the guy being assigned to a female partner for the first time in his career and the duty-booty thread. 

Sexuality has no place in the work environment. Those who cannot separate the two have some maturity issues. At work, we relate to our co-workers based on the work they do and how well they do it. Other concerns may determine which co-workers we invite to the house for a BBQ but have little to do with work. \

Being able to relate comfortably with people of different genders, cultures, sexual orientations, religious practices etc is part of being a mature individual. Treating each other with basic courtesy and respect for their human dignity is all that is required.


----------



## RESQ_5_1 (Jul 23, 2008)

As near as I can tell, the same theme seems to be coming thru. Noone here appears to have a problem working with anyone as long as they are skillful and do their job well. I don't judge who I work with by anything more than how well they do their job. As well, I don't treat my patients any different based on similar differences. That's what professionalism is all about. I couldn't care less about my patient's/coworkers socio-economic level, skin color, religious/political views, sexual orientation, etc. My job is to provide emergency care to those that call on me for help and to do that job with the person my superiors have partnered me with. Being prejudicial about either one affects how I do my job adversely and makes me look unproffessional.


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 23, 2008)

I agree that orientation etc has no place in the work environment. I won't lie to anyone if they ask me but when at work I am working. Personal stuff has a place and time. It's good to hear that most people don't find it a problem. Hopefully this will prove to be true in the field as well as long as I am professional.


----------



## wchawkins (Jul 23, 2008)

You should be just fine.  We all hope the best for ya man.


----------



## firetender (Jul 23, 2008)

Give the question of "Is that EMS person Gay?" about as much time and consideration as you give "Does he/she part his hair left, right, to the middle or not at all?" It has about as much relevance.


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 23, 2008)

firetender said:


> Give the question of "Is that EMS person Gay?" about as much time and consideration as you give "Does he/she part his hair left, right, to the middle or not at all?" It has about as much relevance.



I love this! I wish this is how it was all the time.


----------



## JPINFV (Jul 23, 2008)

firetender said:


> Give the question of "Is that EMS person Gay?" about as much time and consideration as you give "Does he/she part his hair left, right, to the middle or not at all?" It has about as much relevance.



/me wonders if there is a correlation between hair parts and homosexuality.


----------



## Jon (Jul 23, 2008)

JPINFV said:


> /me wonders if there is a correlation between hair parts and homosexuality.


How about earrings?


----------



## upstateemt (Jul 24, 2008)

I hear there are active heterosexuals in EMS as well


----------



## Ridryder911 (Jul 24, 2008)

upstateemt said:


> I hear there are active heterosexuals in EMS as well



So how do you feel working with such?... Does it bother you?..


----------



## upstateemt (Jul 24, 2008)

Ridryder911 said:


> So how do you feel working with such?... Does it bother you?..



Only if they are Republicanh34r:


----------



## karaya (Jul 24, 2008)

upstateemt said:


> Only if they are Republicanh34r:


 
That's no surprise from a New Yorker!


----------



## upstateemt (Jul 24, 2008)

karaya said:


> That's no surprise from a New Yorker!


touche':excl:


----------



## JPINFV (Jul 24, 2008)

upstateemt said:


> Only if they are Republicanh34r:



What about closet republicans?


----------



## Robby1974 (Jul 24, 2008)

jpinfv said:


> what about closet republicans?


hahaha lol.


----------



## upstateemt (Jul 24, 2008)

jpinfv said:


> what about closet republicans?




shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
don't ask don't tell!


----------



## Jon (Jul 24, 2008)

Ok.... Politics in EMS is a whole separate discussion.


----------



## malukapi (Aug 24, 2009)

Ok, here is my outing...I am a german lesbian nurse and EMT-B....


----------



## SeeNoMore (Aug 24, 2009)

I am Gay and an EMT. I am generally assumed to be straight, and unless the subject comes up naturally I do not mention it. For example, I am not going to just mention being gay out of the blue, but would not pretend otherwise if someone was discussing their relationship and asked me if I had a girlfriend etc

Anyhow, I have encountered some very homophobic and sexist attitudes so far, but not what I think of as true hatred or bigotry. Usually it is meant to be humerous. I try just to focus on doing my job. 

The thing is, I am not that touchy but sometimes do feel a little hurt when the assumption is made, even in jest, that being Gay makes you weak and silly. I also hope that the people making these jokes will show due professionalism in the field. Some jokes and comments I have heard about people with aids, and transgedered people are quite horrific.


----------



## medichopeful (Aug 24, 2009)

I am fine with gays and lesbian people doing anything, as long as they do it well.


----------



## malukapi (Aug 24, 2009)

medichopeful said:


> I am fine with gays and lesbian people doing anything, as long as they do it well.



Gays are "normal" people...like in real life...some work good, some not....^_^


----------



## mikeN (Aug 24, 2009)

There are a lot of open gay/lesbian people at my company.  No one really cares.


----------



## fast65 (Aug 24, 2009)

Like others have said, it shouldn't matter, just as long as they do their job.

Myself, personally, I'm gay, most people don't know, and I don't flaunt it; no reason to.


----------



## HotelCo (Aug 24, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> I consider myself fairly conservative (well, in the words of one of my favorite talk show hosts, "more conservative than liberal, more libertarian than conservative, and more cynical and skeptical than anything else"), but I couldn't care less who my partner wants to boink at night. It's simply none of my business and I don't consider it an issue.



I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## EMTinNEPA (Aug 24, 2009)

Jon said:


> When we are in uniform.... we are 1 color: BLUE.



Actually, when I'm in uniform, I'm black and tan ^_^

On topic... who cares?  I sure don't.  They can be straight, gay, bi, or into donkey shows... as long as they do their job properly, it's a non-factor.


----------



## daedalus (Aug 24, 2009)

Ugh, this thread makes me upset. People are people, as the song goes. It is like starting a thread about red heads in EMS....


----------



## JonTullos (Aug 24, 2009)

Non-issue.  Next.


----------



## Dominion (Aug 24, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Ugh, this thread makes me upset. People are people, as the song goes. It is like starting a thread about red heads in EMS....



How DO you feel about redheads?  Personally gingers freak me out and I'd rather they not work in EMS.


----------



## Meursault (Aug 25, 2009)

JonTullos said:


> Non-issue.  Next.



Succinct and sensible. I've seen at least one other miserable abortion of a thread on this that got the same responses.


----------



## daedalus (Aug 25, 2009)

Dominion said:


> How DO you feel about redheads?  Personally gingers freak me out and I'd rather they not work in EMS.



Is this in some sort of jest? While I am not a red head I can see how this might be offensive to someone who is.


----------



## Dominion (Aug 25, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Is this in some sort of jest? While I am not a red head I can see how this might be offensive to someone who is.



This is why I insist on some kind of universal internet based sarcasm font.  I'm kidding.  Obviously.


----------



## DV_EMT (Aug 25, 2009)

A little late here....

my opinion... and everyone don't jump on me here

I have no problem if your gay/lesbian/bi/ or any of the above.... you a person and i have no problem who you love.

I have a problem if...;

1. they're hitting on me. I don't roll that way. so, please, stop asking (theres a story behind that one)

2. they decide to give me a whole long speech about how I (being republican and catholic) are not tolerant to their culture. I am very tolerant... but I do not agree with gay marriage in any church/religion that does not accept them. If they want marriage in the state... thats fine and good.... but keep it out of religion. After all, it was adam and eve. I'm not trying to sound condesending or anything, but having been raised in California has really "bugged" me because everyone automatically things that because Im a catholic republican, I automatically hate gays/lesbians/etc... which isnt the case by a long shot.

anyhow. sorry for the short rant. but I just want to add my 2 cents and make it clear that I am perfectly fine with gay/lesbians in EMS. Theyre great people and whatever their preference is.... thats fine by me so long as it doesn't interfere with my work


----------



## whatw14578 (Aug 25, 2009)

what about post op transsexuals.  no one has said anything about th T group in LBGT. thoughts anyone?


----------



## bunkie (Aug 25, 2009)

DV_EMT said:


> A little late here....
> 
> my opinion... and everyone don't jump on me here
> 
> ...



I can completely understand your POV. And you are the first person that *I've* heard in the great gay marriage debate that is fine with it by state but keeping it apart from religion. As a lifelong devout Anglican, now atheist bisexual, I truly understand your side of the argument. Perhaps not necessarily "adam and eve" but the fact that the bible, as the word of god, clearly states that if a man should lay with another man the way he would lay with a woman. It is a sin. The bible is the word of God. To question the word of God is an unforgivable sin. I totally get you there. And you are absolutely right. Tolerance and respect should be given and taught on all sides of the coin. Don't expect someone to take your beliefs/feelings when you dont respect or honor theirs. But that is a large part of whats wrong with this world. Anywho I digress. 

Obviously, being bi I couldn't give a rats about what anyones sexual orientation is or gender either biological or surgically gained. Just because you have the right goods, doesn't mean they want them.


----------



## HotelCo (Aug 25, 2009)

whatw14578 said:


> what about post op transsexuals.  no one has said anything about th T group in LBGT. thoughts anyone?



Can they do their job? If so, no problems. 

If not, (like anyone else) I have a problem.


----------



## JPINFV (Aug 25, 2009)

whatw14578 said:


> what about post op transsexuals.  no one has said anything about th T group in LBGT. thoughts anyone?



Transsexuals are in an entirely different category since there's legitimate diseases and disorders that lead to it (gender dysphoria, children born with ambiguous genitalia, etc. There's a rather famous case of a botched circumcision where the parents decided to raise their child as a girl. He ended up transitioning back to being male). As with any other -sexual, as long it's kept out of work, it shouldn't matter.


----------



## daedalus (Aug 25, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Transsexuals are in an entirely different category since there's legitimate diseases and disorders that lead to it (gender dysphoria, children born with ambiguous genitalia, etc. There's a rather famous case of a botched circumcision where the parents decided to raise their child as a girl. He ended up transitioning back to being male). As with any other -sexual, as long it's kept out of work, it shouldn't matter.



Gender dysphoria may go the way of homosexuality when it was taken out of the DSM in the late 70s someday. Just last month the APA reviewed the evidence for conversion therapy (turning gay people into straight people through psychotherapy) and decided it was bogus.


----------



## Robby1974 (Aug 26, 2009)

*Ok back after long Hiatus.*

I haven't been on here in forever but this  thread caught my eye again. I personally know of a ginger girl (Her name is Ginger actually) and she's one of the most competent medics I know. Totally laffin at the red head joke though....does strawberry blong with red facial hair count....bring on the blonde jokes lol. 
Anyway...yeah I could see gender dysphoria diagnoses going the way of the dinosaur. I have been through ex-gay counseling through the church. It was a great program that helped me deal with a lot of issues but it didn't make me straight. Everyone I was close to in the program (about 40 in the group total) about 5 or so guys are all gay and out of the closet now. Many have held onto their faith (like myself) others have not. Great post BTW about agreeing with gay marriage on the state level. There are actually plenty of churches out there who will perform a same sex ceremony anyway. I just want to be treated like everyone else. IE...being able to file a joint tax return, buy a house together, raise a family. Everything that I had when I was married to a woman and everyone takes for granted. I should be allowed to screw up my life as much as straight people.


----------



## daedalus (Aug 26, 2009)

Robby1974 said:


> I haven't been on here in forever but this  thread caught my eye again. I personally know of a ginger girl (Her name is Ginger actually) and she's one of the most competent medics I know. Totally laffin at the red head joke though....does strawberry blong with red facial hair count....bring on the blonde jokes lol.
> Anyway...yeah I could see gender dysphoria diagnoses going the way of the dinosaur. I have been through ex-gay counseling through the church. It was a great program that helped me deal with a lot of issues but it didn't make me straight. Everyone I was close to in the program (about 40 in the group total) about 5 or so guys are all gay and out of the closet now. Many have held onto their faith (like myself) others have not. Great post BTW about agreeing with gay marriage on the state level. There are actually plenty of churches out there who will perform a same sex ceremony anyway. I just want to be treated like everyone else. IE...being able to file a joint tax return, buy a house together, raise a family. Everything that I had when I was married to a woman and everyone takes for granted. I should be allowed to screw up my life as much as straight people.



You should contact the program you went through and tell them that it is no longer ethical to involve mental health professionals in these sorts of programs. The statement released by the APA not only calls conversion therapy ineffective, but points to potential harm to patients. Without even dragging politics or faith into this, the practice simply violates evidence based practices and the standard of care.


----------



## Seaglass (Aug 27, 2009)

daedalus said:


> You should contact the program you went through and tell them that it is no longer ethical to involve mental health professionals in these sorts of programs. The statement released by the APA not only calls conversion therapy ineffective, but points to potential harm to patients. Without even dragging politics or faith into this, the practice simply violates evidence based practices and the standard of care.



Unfortunately, there's no real oversight or enforcement for therapy in religious settings. The APA can get someone's license pulled, but churches often aren't using licensed practitioners to begin with. I'm not sure where I stand on that. On the one hand, state oversight of religious counseling is really sticky, especially considering attitudes towards religion among psych people. On the other, religious institutions engage in some really harmful practices. 

As for my views on orientation... I don't care who anyone screws, as long as I don't hear about it. I'm equally uncomfortable with all coworkers who like to talk about their sex lives. Not like I'll do anything about it, though. (And no, I'm not one of those people who thinks mentioning having a relationship or orientation is talk about sex. I mean graphic detail.)

I'm a big fan of state marriage being for any consenting adults, and religious marriage being for whoever the religion wants it to be. Change in religious practice needs to come from inside if it comes at all.

I also don't mind bunking with lesbian or trans coworkers. In fact, I don't mind men staying in the women's bunkroom, either, as occasionally happens if we're short on space and nobody objects. We all sleep in our uniforms anyways, and the bathrooms are private. 

The only issue I've ever had with trans people is when I can't tell which gender they're going towards, and they get really offended when you use the wrong pronoun.


----------



## DV_EMT (Aug 27, 2009)

bunkie said:


> I can completely understand your POV. And you are the first person that *I've* heard in the great gay marriage debate that is fine with it by state but keeping it apart from religion. As a lifelong devout Anglican, now atheist bisexual, I truly understand your side of the argument. Perhaps not necessarily "adam and eve" but the fact that the bible, as the word of god, clearly states that if a man should lay with another man the way he would lay with a woman. It is a sin. The bible is the word of God. To question the word of God is an unforgivable sin. I totally get you there. And you are absolutely right. Tolerance and respect should be given and taught on all sides of the coin. Don't expect someone to take your beliefs/feelings when you dont respect or honor theirs. But that is a large part of whats wrong with this world. Anywho I digress.
> 
> Obviously, being bi I couldn't give a rats about what anyones sexual orientation is or gender either biological or surgically gained. Just because you have the right goods, doesn't mean they want them.




why thank you  glad to know that my point of view is respected and that people "understand" my point of view and where I'm coming from!


----------



## boingo (Aug 27, 2009)

I think its a prequisite for where I work  There are plenty of gay/bi/lesbian folks here, I couldn't care less, the vast majority are great EMT's and medics, their orientation doesn't effect patient care whatsoever.


----------



## fast65 (Aug 27, 2009)

Seaglass said:


> As for my views on orientation... I don't care who anyone screws, as long as I don't hear about it. I'm equally uncomfortable with all coworkers who like to talk about their sex lives. Not like I'll do anything about it, though. (And no, I'm not one of those people who thinks mentioning having a relationship or orientation is talk about sex. I mean graphic detail.)


I completely agree with you on that one, I'm the same way. IMO there are some things that people should just keep to themselves.


----------



## atropine (Aug 27, 2009)

who cares about gays in ems, I hate fat people in ems, thats a bigger issue know what I mean.


----------

