# off-duty, on scene



## truebluecougarman (Aug 14, 2010)

Ok so I am a fairly new EMT-B and came upon a situation I was unsure what to do. I was walking out of a second job, and right as I came out there was a pretty severe car accident somewhat close to where I was. 

Just by instinct I ran over (after making sure scene was safe) and got on the phone with 911 while checking on everyone, the passengers of the one vehicle were fine. But the other lady was stuck and in moderate pain. I started talking to her to check alertness and orientation, and see where she was feeling pain. found nothing life threatening and no need to extricate her before the city EMS arrived. 

My question is, what would you/how have you reacted in a situation where you are off duty, but come across something like this? Should I have avoided it entirely? I'm just curious to know how you would have reacted here.


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## JPINFV (Aug 14, 2010)

Depends completely on the situation as to whether I'd get involved past calling 911 or not. A busy freeway in a downtown area is a different situation than being in the middle of nowhere. 

All and all, it sounds like you did the two big things you could. Insure 911 was contacted, and comfort someone who is injured (i.e. help is coming. Someone is here until help gets here...).


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## angels.girl84 (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm a very new EMT-B  but I can say I would have done the same thing, & getting it reported was the best thing you could have done.


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## EMTtoBE (Aug 16, 2010)

you did the right thing and its good to see somebody was calm about the situation...a while ago me and some other class mates were on lunch at Wendys and as we were leaving a car accident happened so as we ran over to help a guy had stop and pulled a lady out of one of the cars and laid here on the street in the middle of summer day heat in Las Vegas..lets just say alot of people were pissed lol.. but sounds like you did everything right and wasnt much you could do anyways


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## SMButton91 (Sep 1, 2010)

Yep im also a newly hired B, and i've also that happen to me only i was on a backup truck, while our department lets backup crew stay at home if they want. Well i was out grilling with a friend, and a drunk driver ran a stop sign and hit a parked truck, so i had to wait for my ambulance to arrive before i had any equipment. I ran over and made sure everything was alright.  I have a pet peve of wanting to do  c collar and c-spine in any accident other than low speed, where everyone is fine. But this time airbags deployed so C-collar and c-spine indeed. (just for example my patient only complained of neck pain and rated it at maybe a 3. 10 minutes later she is complaining of neck and back pain at an 8 :excl:. In that type of situation ig you just have to work with what your givin. If pedestrians want to help, utilize that, saftey permiting of course!!! you did what was right so koodos to you B)


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## EMT11KDL (Sep 2, 2010)

i was on the free way a few week ago, and a semi took a car and shoved it into the median.  i was behind it.  I parked my truck and blocked the far left lane about 30 yards back from the accident at a angle, the same way you do with a engine.  walked up to the car, and just kept c-spine and made sure she stayed calm.  

the main thing you have to worry about is your safety.  if you are able to enter a scene that is safe than yes enter if you choose.  if it is not safe, stay away. call 911 and inform them exactly what you see and have Dispatch get pd en route.  

My rule: if ems, fire, or pd is on scene i will not stop. if i hear sirens in the back ground i wont stop.  if i witness it read above.  

I carry a basic FR kit in my truck with me.  but 99 percent of the time i enter with just gloves, if i truly need something out of my kit, ill tell a bystander to grab it out of my toolbox from my truck.


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## DezertRanger-EMT (Oct 11, 2010)

i keep a trauma bag in my truck just in case, i came up on a car accident ware a guy hit a tree and i couldn't touch him, do to the bsi. After that i bought a bag and a c-collar just enough to get the job don. i was tought if you do work for am ambulance company and someone you know sees you driving by a scene that no one has arrived at you can be held for neglect for not stopping.


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## JPINFV (Oct 11, 2010)

DezertRanger-EMT said:


> i keep a trauma bag in my truck just in case, i came up on a car accident ware a guy hit a tree and i couldn't touch him, do to the bsi. After that i bought a bag and a c-collar just enough to get the job don. i was tought if you do work for am ambulance company and someone you know sees you driving by a scene that no one has arrived at you can be held for neglect for not stopping.



To the best of my knowledge the only requirement someone has in California is to stop and render aid is if they were involved in an accident. It's a part of the hit and run statutes, not a requirement on licensed prehospital providers.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d10/vc20001.htm


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## DezertRanger-EMT (Oct 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> To the best of my knowledge the only requirement someone has in California is to stop and render aid is if they were involved in an accident. It's a part of the hit and run statutes, not a requirement on licensed prehospital providers.
> 
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d10/vc20001.htm



i see thanks for the link


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## JJR512 (Oct 11, 2010)

EMT11KDL said:


> i was on the free way a few week ago, and a semi took a car and shoved it into the median.  i was behind it.  I parked my truck and blocked the far left lane about 30 yards back from the accident at a angle, the same way you do with a engine.



Just from the minimal description you provided, I have to wonder if if using your truck (I'm assuming it's your personal pickup truck, not a marked and lighted FD vehicle) to block a lane was a wise idea. The affected vehicle was off in the median, right? And if it's in a median, it's not really impeding traffic, right?


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## DezertRanger-EMT (Oct 11, 2010)

EMT11KDL said:


> i was on the free way a few week ago, and a semi took a car and shoved it into the median.  i was behind it.  I parked my truck and blocked the far left lane about 30 yards back from the accident at a angle, the same way you do with a engine.  walked up to the car, and just kept c-spine and made sure she stayed calm.
> 
> the main thing you have to worry about is your safety.  if you are able to enter a scene that is safe than yes enter if you choose.  if it is not safe, stay away. call 911 and inform them exactly what you see and have Dispatch get pd en route.
> 
> ...



the scene i was on i stayed till pd showed up, there was an off duty fire fighter on scene, sense i had to go to work, before i left i made sure he had his EMT do to not being able to leave a patients in care of someone with less training.


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## TransportJockey (Oct 11, 2010)

I would have called 911, informed them of the situation and then gone home. I'm not gonna stop.


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## LonghornMedic (Oct 12, 2010)

EMT11KDL said:


> i was on the free way a few week ago, and a semi took a car and shoved it into the median.  i was behind it.  *I parked my truck and blocked the far left lane about 30 yards back from the accident at a angle, the same way you do with a engine.*  walked up to the car, and just kept c-spine and made sure she stayed calm.
> 
> *the main thing you have to worry about is your safety.*  if you are able to enter a scene that is safe than yes enter if you choose.  if it is not safe, stay away. call 911 and inform them exactly what you see and have Dispatch get pd en route.
> 
> ...



Do you honestly think parking another unmarked, civilian vehicle on a highway is an example of scene safety? You were on a freeway, blocking traffic with your truck. Doesn't sound safe at all. It's dangerous enough working in the roadway, even with emergency vehicles and flashing lights.


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## LonghornMedic (Oct 12, 2010)

truebluecougarman said:


> My question is, what would you/how have you reacted in a situation where you are off duty, but come across something like this? Should I have avoided it entirely? I'm just curious to know how you would have reacted here.



Stay out of the street and call 911. That's all I would have done. Our job is dangerous enough even when we have all the equipment, lights and reflective vests.


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## rwik123 (Oct 12, 2010)

LonghornMedic said:


> Do you honestly think parking another unmarked, civilian vehicle on a highway is an example of scene safety? You were on a freeway, blocking traffic with your truck. Doesn't sound safe at all. It's dangerous enough working in the roadway, even with emergency vehicles and flashing lights.



+1 

I myself wouldn't use my truck parked at an angle to block traffic


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## LonghornMedic (Oct 12, 2010)

DezertRanger-EMT said:


> i keep a trauma bag in my truck just in case, i came up on a car accident ware a guy hit a tree and i couldn't touch him, do to the bsi. After that i bought a bag and a c-collar just enough to get the job don.



I would be very hesitant to initiate any treatment off duty. Good Samaritan laws often only cover people with minimal training from lawsuits. Those with expanded medical training are sometimes open to be sued. Even if it is a completely frivolous lawsuit, you would still have to shell out money to hire an attorney to get the case dismissed. Most importantly, is even the slightest chance of losing your state license(and the time and money it took to get you that far) over off-duty treatment worth the risk?


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## jjesusfreak01 (Oct 12, 2010)

LonghornMedic said:


> I would be very hesitant to initiate any treatment off duty. Good Samaritan laws often only cover people with minimal training from lawsuits. Those with expanded medical training are sometimes open to be sued. Even if it is a completely frivolous lawsuit, you would still have to shell out money to hire an attorney to get the case dismissed. Most importantly, is even the slightest chance of losing your state license(and the time and money it took to get you that far) over off-duty treatment worth the risk?



It has to be your choice, and you should also know your states Good Samaritan laws well. In NC, any off duty worker is covered, and possibly volunteer workers to, as you only have to be "not compensated" when you are giving care. Also, probably not a bad idea to carry your own insurance if your state GS laws don't cover you. Its like $100 a year for $1,000,000 of coverage for EMTs.


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## DezertRanger-EMT (Oct 12, 2010)

LonghornMedic said:


> I would be very hesitant to initiate any treatment off duty. Good Samaritan laws often only cover people with minimal training from lawsuits. Those with expanded medical training are sometimes open to be sued. Even if it is a completely frivolous lawsuit, you would still have to shell out money to hire an attorney to get the case dismissed. Most importantly, is even the slightest chance of losing your state license(and the time and money it took to get you that far) over off-duty treatment worth the risk?



this is very true i guess i should choose wisely on who i help such as friends family, and it is true if i was brought to court and i followed protocol id still haft to have attorney and bills even if i were to win the case.


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## DezertRanger-EMT (Oct 12, 2010)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> It has to be your choice, and you should also know your states Good Samaritan laws well. In NC, any off duty worker is covered, and possibly volunteer workers to, as you only have to be "not compensated" when you are giving care. Also, probably not a bad idea to carry your own insurance if your state GS laws don't cover you. Its like $100 a year for $1,000,000 of coverage for EMTs.



i have my cert and not license yet iv been to overwhelmed with a full time job and school to go and take it iv been refreshing here and there, but id haft to check the dmv law and see the coverage.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Oct 12, 2010)

Just read through another NC statute. Any person giving aid at a car crash is covered, so long as they do not commit wanton misconduct or gross negligence. Doesn't even matter if you are on duty, off duty, paid, volly. This is part of the law regarding car crashes, and is not the states general GS law.


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## DezertRanger-EMT (Oct 12, 2010)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> Just read through another NC statute. Any person giving aid at a car crash is covered, so long as they do not commit wanton misconduct or gross negligence. Doesn't even matter if you are on duty, off duty, paid, volly. This is part of the law regarding car crashes, and is not the states general GS law.



your good to go then haha


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