# Immature EMTs



## Aerin-Sol (May 14, 2011)

This is more of a rant than a constructive post.

Other EMTs who act like they are too good to help a patient with anything not explicitly in the EMS scope are so annoying. I took a very nice patient home yesterday. He was bedbound and his caregiver wasn't completely mobile either.  The patient asked us to help get a chux under him, and another EMT there acted *SO* immature about it. He made faces when the patient was turned away from him, he made the process much harder by refusing to actually touch the patient, and when we got back to the truck he made a few comments about how gross the whole experience had been. It was so annoying! Here was this patient who was fully oriented, mid-40s, having to humble himself by asking us to help him get padding under him in case he soiled himself, and this EMT was completely immature and unprofessional about it because he had to see another male's derriere. Ugggg!!!!


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## HotelCo (May 14, 2011)

Aside from the comments in the truck, I agree about the immaturity. 

The truck, at least to me, is the area where emts, and paramedics are able to speak freely.


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## Aerin-Sol (May 14, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Aside from the comments in the truck, I agree about the immaturity.
> 
> The truck, at least to me, is the area where emts, and paramedics are able to speak freely.



I agree, but "omg eww butt!!!!" is immature regardless of where it's said.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 14, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> I agree, but "omg eww butt!!!!" is immature regardless of where it's said.



That immaturity isn't limited to EMTs. There are medics out there that act the same exact way.


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## mycrofft (May 14, 2011)

*Not a scope issue but one of upbringing and maturity.*

Then, again, when was the lat time you had a "butt" class?B)


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## Monkey (May 14, 2011)

Considering the average age of most EMT's and Medics, it's not surprising.  Maturity comes from age and experience, and twentysomethings have neither.  

Then again, I know some older EMT's that aren't much better, but they're inexperienced in the field so I chalk it up to that.


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## HotelCo (May 14, 2011)

Monkey said:


> Considering the average age of most EMT's and Medics, it's not surprising.  Maturity comes from age and experience, and twentysomethings have neither.
> 
> Then again, I know some older EMT's that aren't much better, but they're inexperienced in the field so I chalk it up to that.



I agree that it comes from experience (to a point), but wholeheartedly disagree that it comes from age.


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## Handsome Robb (May 14, 2011)

Monkey said:


> Considering the average age of most EMT's and Medics, it's not surprising.  Maturity comes from age and experience, and twentysomethings have neither.
> 
> Then again, I know some older EMT's that aren't much better, but they're inexperienced in the field so I chalk it up to that.



Don't blanket statement younger people please. There are plenty of younger EMTs and medics on here that are very mature for their age. 

To say that a 'twentysomething' emt/medic have no maturity, is disrespectful and rude, to be honest, borderline immature as well.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 14, 2011)

NVRob said:


> Don't blanket statement younger people please. There are plenty of younger EMTs and medics on here that are very mature for their age.
> 
> To say that a 'twentysomething' emt/medic have no maturity, is disrespectful and rude, to be honest, borderline immature as well.



I'm only 19. I started running medical calls at 14. I have never been called immature or anything near that. Age has nothing to do with how a person acts. It all depends on how they were raised and themselves as a person.


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## Monkey (May 14, 2011)

I did NOT mean ALL young EMT's are immature, so I do apologize.

There are those that are, but it usually comes from experience, such as you stated firefite.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I do realize there are older immature EMT's but it's "normally" the younger ones, which to be honest is just normal.


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## Handsome Robb (May 14, 2011)

No worries. Sorry I kinda snapped in that post, no offense taken  Firefite I agree about how you were raised. I've been an EMT since 18, I'm 21 now.


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## Monkey (May 14, 2011)

exactly.

You also have to understand the sheer numbers I see on a regular basis of new and student EMT's, so I guess I'm inundated by numbers, so see things a tad differently.

It's easy to spot the younger mature ones, but they are few and far between sadly, especially in this part of the world.  I do not expect an 19 or 20 year old to be over the top mature, I'd be an idiot to think that way.  

It is what it is, it's up to the more experienced ones to set the example, regardless of age in years.  It's what makes the immature ones mature... right?


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## JPINFV (May 14, 2011)

Monkey said:


> Considering the average age of most EMT's and Medics, it's not surprising.  Maturity comes from age and experience, and twentysomethings have neither.
> 
> Then again, I know some older EMT's that aren't much better, but they're inexperienced in the field so I chalk it up to that.


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## Amycus (May 14, 2011)

When I'm on a call? I'm 100% "treat everyone as if they were your Grandma" bedside type manners, to the patient and family.

When I'm off the call or back in the truck? I'll likely crack some jokes or poke fun at what I can, or my partner might. 

It's part of what keeps you sane in this job: Having a great partner to talk to, and being able to keep everything in perspective. People have different ways to cope, that's one of them.


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## MrBrown (May 15, 2011)

Brown thoroughly believes that people who are older and have gotten some life experience make exponentially better Ambulance Officers.

Those who do not have the appropriate amount of experience for such a role are disproportionatly represented by the young


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## Monkey (May 15, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Brown thoroughly believes that people who are older and have gotten some life experience make exponentially better Ambulance Officers.
> 
> Those who do not have the appropriate amount of experience for such a role are disproportionatly represented by the young



^^^^^ what he said, LOL ^^^^^^


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## PC Comms (May 15, 2011)

Let me ask something, if I may.  Did you talk to this individual afterwards about their conduct?  If not, then part of the problem is you.  I know you may not want to hear that, but its the truth.  There's an old saying that goes "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem".  It is our responsibility to step up and be a mentor to immature people in our field, regardless of whether they are younger or older than us.  When I have someone ride my rig and they act like that, I take them aside when we get back to the squad and tell them in a NICE way that their behavior was inappropriate, and WHY it was.  If the problem persists, I speak with an officer or the Captain and have them address the person as well.  If someone doesn't tell them that they are acting inappropriately, then how are they going to fix the problem?  Just my $0.02


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## Aerin-Sol (May 15, 2011)

PC Comms said:


> Let me ask something, if I may.  Did you talk to this individual afterwards about their conduct?  If not, then part of the problem is you.  I know you may not want to hear that, but its the truth.  There's an old saying that goes "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem".  It is our responsibility to step up and be a mentor to immature people in our field, regardless of whether they are younger or older than us.  When I have someone ride my rig and they act like that, I take them aside when we get back to the squad and tell them in a NICE way that their behavior was inappropriate, and WHY it was.  If the problem persists, I speak with an officer or the Captain and have them address the person as well.  If someone doesn't tell them that they are acting inappropriately, then how are they going to fix the problem?  Just my $0.02



I don't think his attitude could be fixed with a discussion. Anyone who is involved in patient care and gets visibly disgusted by someone's naked rear end isn't going to be receptive to/improved by "hey, don't be disgusted by people's body."


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## PC Comms (May 15, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> I don't think his attitude could be fixed with a discussion. Anyone who is involved in patient care and gets visibly disgusted by someone's naked rear end isn't going to be receptive to/improved by "hey, don't be disgusted by people's body."



You don't know unless you try.  Look, I'm not trying to break your balls.  All I'm saying is put forth a little effort and try to guide and educate them instead of simply dismissing them as a lost cause.  Its not only bad for them, but for the image of your squad or company if they continue with that sort of attitude.


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## Scout (May 15, 2011)

Hey, I pride myself on being immature. Life is not fun if you cant act like a child.

I am also on occasion professional.


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## Hellsbells (May 15, 2011)

> I don't think his attitude could be fixed with a discussion. Anyone who is involved in patient care and gets visibly disgusted by someone's naked rear end isn't going to be receptive to/improved by "hey, don't be disgusted by people's body."



Not really the point is it? I think the matter is really how one presents himself on a call, making faces and other obvious signs of disgust that the pt could potentially see is pretty low in my opinion. Of course you can't dictate how a person actually feels, but I think its worth a discussion because, like it or not his behavior reflects directly on you.


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## adamjh3 (May 15, 2011)

Hellsbells said:


> Not really the point is it? I think the matter is really how one presents himself on a call, making faces and other obvious signs of disgust that the pt could potentially see is pretty low in my opinion. Of course you can't dictate how a person actually feels, but I think its worth a discussion because, like it or not his behavior reflects directly on you.



This. 

Yes, you have to be able to have fun with this job, if that means cracking some jokes, talking through calls with other crews in a humorous manner, that's fine. BUT there is a time and place; In the rig by yourself while your posted, at the station during your down time, etc. How you act on scene and how you act out in public while you're in uniform impacts everyone around you and shapes their views of not only EMS, but everyone in uniform. We're supposed to be role models, whether you like it or not. People DO look up to us, that opinion and trust can very, very easily be betrayed by one bad apple.

I've had to talk to some of my crew members about using vulgar language when we're getting food or going through a store and cracking jokes about patients in the same settings. There's no need for it, and it's safest to assume that nobody - not even other health care providers - "gets" our twisted gallows humor. Explaining it in these terms often stops the problem.

By the way, I started EMS at 18, I'm now in charge of a station of about a dozen people and I'm only 19. Age =/= maturity.


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## mycrofft (May 15, 2011)

*In charge after one year*

Further deponent sayeth naught, save that McDonald's has a similar promotion profile.
Not to say it is not warranted or successful, but there _have_ to be "issues" with older and more experienced practitioners.


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## adamjh3 (May 15, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> Further deponent sayeth naught, save that McDonald's has a similar promotion profile.
> Not to say it is not warranted or successful, but there _have_ to be "issues" with older and more experienced practitioners.



Meh, not really. Very, very small BLS IFT station with a very high turn-over rate. Only one person has been there longer than me and he didn't want the responsibility. Looking a good five years older than I am helps with the "older" folks, granted, the oldest is only 28 and one of my closest friends. 

Not gloating. Actually, it's nothing to gloat about, a whole lot more work for an extra buck an hour. Just putting facts on the table.


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## mycrofft (May 15, 2011)

*adam, the very best to you then!*

Hey, 19 year olds were walking point on patrols in Nam and calling in artie. Good deal, get it on your CV with a letter of recommendation!


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## samiam (May 15, 2011)

I have noticed that the older and more experienced the person is the crueler and sicker the jokes become. I initially was very timid to crack jokes about patients etc even when they were not around but it is what keeps you sane.


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## jediwill (Jun 24, 2011)

*Immature...*

I totally get the need to vent and joke about some things...I'm one of the first to do it..but I would never let my "immaturity" influence my patient care in a bad way...I mean yeah so its a butt? Ever think that the poor guy that has to ask for help with something so personal aint really wild bout you getting a look at his hinder either?Empathize a lil.


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## firetender (Jun 24, 2011)

*Respect yourself*

If it's an issue of immaturity then the whole EMS culture is immature. Gallows humor and cracks about patients (to ease the pain?) are quite prevalent throughout and so pervasive that sometimes, a real cruel crack is likely to slip out.

It's all about your awareness of yourself and your impact on other people.

There's nothing wrong with what is in the culture, but each of us has the right and maybe obligation to set limits and boundaries on each other. I'm not talking Rules, though like some here at EMTLife make sense. I'm talking about calling out the individual when he/she shows more malintent than fun in what they say or do in the moment. 

There are times each of us will need to be reminded why we're here.


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## bigbaldguy (Jun 25, 2011)

As someone coming to EMS in his mid 30s I have to say I was blown away by the maturity I often see in some of the "kids" I volunteer with. I've worked with paramedics that are barely old enough to drink but who handle themselves on the job with a confidence and maturity I could only dream of at their age.


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## EMSpassion94 (Jun 25, 2011)

I think think there is a big line between being immature and having a sense of humor. I'll be one of the first one's to crack a joke after a call, but i'm not going to sit there and watch you struggle with a patient because i'm grossed out about touching his rear. I'd say, if he can't handle seeing someone else's 'junk', he can't handle being an EMT. Let alone in the medical field at all. You're going to see alot of these things. It's more the bound to happen. I'm 16 years old, and alongside being an EMT, i'm also a caregiver. Who DEFINITELY sees things. And no, I don't believe its about age, at all. People have told me they can't believe how calm, collected, and confident I am on scene. And then there are other people, 10, 20, 30 years older than me who can't hold themselves together on scene if it's not a simple call. And I also don't believe it's in experience. I have only about 1 year of experience in EMS, and those same people who can't hold it together have been in EMS for 10 or more years. You definietly have to be "called" to work in the EMS field. Some people can handle things that other people can't. Simple as that.


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## firetender (Jun 26, 2011)

that

and as long as you don't forget that everyone has an Achilles heel, including you, you'll be fine. You will meet yourself in EMS, no matter where you stand.


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## daveathlon (Jul 5, 2011)

Yeah it sucks, but you get retards in just about every job. Too bad they can't be kept out of the EMS field.


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## Dougy (Jul 10, 2011)

Aerin-Sol said:


> This is more of a rant than a constructive post.
> 
> Other EMTs who act like they are too good to help a patient with anything not explicitly in the EMS scope are so annoying. I took a very nice patient home yesterday. He was bedbound and his caregiver wasn't completely mobile either.  The patient asked us to help get a chux under him, and another EMT there acted *SO* immature about it. He made faces when the patient was turned away from him, he made the process much harder by refusing to actually touch the patient, and when we got back to the truck he made a few comments about how gross the whole experience had been. It was so annoying! Here was this patient who was fully oriented, mid-40s, having to humble himself by asking us to help him get padding under him in case he soiled himself, and this EMT was completely immature and unprofessional about it because he had to see another male's derriere. Ugggg!!!!



It frustrates me to be around immature EMT's. There are a few on my squad, myself included at some points, but really, it's a good group. I'm lucky.


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## usafmedic45 (Jul 10, 2011)

> It frustrates me to be around immature EMT's. There are a few on my squad, myself included at some points, but really, it's a good group. I'm lucky.



That's what happens when you have a "dozen" or so 16-17 y/o EMTs.  About 0.01% of EMTs under 18 y/o are anything I would even begin to approximate as "mature".  Hell, only about 5% of EMTs under 30 y/o are so....


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## TransportJockey (Jul 10, 2011)

daveathlon said:


> Yeah it sucks, but you get retards in just about every job. Too bad they can't be kept out of the EMS field.



Hard to keep them out when the standards of entry are so freaking low we will take anyone


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## bigbaldguy (Jul 10, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> That's what happens when you have a "dozen" or so 16-17 y/o EMTs.  About 0.01% of EMTs under 18 y/o are anything I would even begin to approximate as "mature".  Hell, only about 5% of EMTs under 30 y/o are so....



You gotta say one thing for em though. Those young gung ho guys have nice strong backs.


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## usafmedic45 (Jul 11, 2011)

Yup and they make effective canaries.  Hand them a lit road flare and send them into the scene.  If they don't get shot, stabbed, beaten, run over, pass out or engulfed in a massive fireball, the scene is most likely safe.


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## TransportJockey (Jul 11, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Yup and they make effective canaries.  Hand them a lit road flare and send them into the scene.  If they don't get shot, stabbed, beaten, run over, pass out or engulfed in a massive fireball, the scene is most likely safe.



You just gave me a new use for our volunteer hosemonkeys


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## usafmedic45 (Jul 11, 2011)

TransportJockey said:


> You just gave me a new use for our volunteer hosemonkeys



Just for the sake of the impending lawsuit, I disavow that I am actually suggesting that and likewise deny that I've ever made an EMT student engage in such activities.


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## Jay (Jul 12, 2011)

mycrofft said:


> Hey, 19 year olds were walking point on patrols in Nam and calling in artie. Good deal, get it on your CV with a letter of recommendation!


When I was in the Navy, the average age was 18, 19, 20 and 21 if you were lucky; almost half of the population was within that age group. The odd thing was that they were virtually split into two categories (without trying to sound sexist and to make the point) the men and the boys. I almost pulled my hair out at times because I was 19 or 20 and in a position of responsibility and I had guys older than me acting like it was high school. I guess EMS is the same deal, it comes down to the player and not only the game.


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## hippocratical (Jul 16, 2011)

When I was 18 years old I'm sure that I wasn't exactly a shining example of maturity either. That said, I'm 34 and still a kid inside (although Mr. Professional outside of course).

Remember - Men don't grow up, we just get bigger. ^_^


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## nemedic (Jul 16, 2011)

hippocratical said:


> Remember - Men don't grow up, we just get bigger. ^_^



Giggity. 






Sorry. Too immature to pass it up


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## emtchick171 (Jul 16, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Brown thoroughly believes that people who are older and have gotten some life experience make exponentially better Ambulance Officers.
> 
> Those who do not have the appropriate amount of experience for such a role are disproportionatly represented by the young



I agree there are a lot of younger immature people. However not all. Just because I'm 21 does that mean I shouldn't be the lead medic on my truck? As well as a lieutenant for my shift?


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## Lifeguards For Life (Jul 16, 2011)

emtchick171 said:


> I agree there are a lot of younger immature people. However not all. Just because I'm 21 does that mean I shouldn't be the lead medic on my truck? As well as a lieutenant for my shift?



I got my paramedic license when i was 19. I turned out allright


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## emtchick171 (Jul 16, 2011)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> I got my paramedic license when i was 19. I turned out allright



I got my medic when I was 19 also, busted my butt to get to where I am today...and apparently my shift supervisor saw something in me to give me lieutenant position. There's a 17 year old that has just finished emt class and she is also very mature for her age, so I think it's all a case-by-case situation. I don't think someone can accurately decide that all "young medics/emts" are immature


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## bigbaldguy (Jul 16, 2011)

You know there is also the argument that no matter how mature, professional and qualified you are if you look like a kid people won't take you seriously. I am by far the least qualified, least experienced person on any of the crews I run with but because I am generally the oldest and biggest in any given situation I'm usually the one people come to for info be it police or family on scene or a nurse or doctor in the ER. This isn't always a bad thing as I'm often able to distract family members by speaking with them while my far more qualified partners work on the patient. I can see that it can be very frustrating for very young looking EMS professionals though. I see this especially when I run with small framed female medics. On scene it must sometimes feel like they are invisible because even after I make it as clear as possible that "she's in charge" the first responders on scene and often bystanders still default to me as the person to run things by. This is not unique to the EMS field though. I run into this all the time in my airline job. I will be standing at the front of the plane in my flight attendant outfit saying good bye to people with a female captain in her pilot uniform complete with stripes on shoulders fancy jacket and even a nifty hat and invariably someone will look at her look at me then reach out to shake my hand and say something along the lines of "nice landing captain".


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## medicdan (Jul 16, 2011)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> I got my paramedic license when i was 19. I turned out allright



Wasn't fun to be able to administer highly regulated narcotics (and being responsible for their security), but not be able to buy beer for yourself?


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## MrBrown (Jul 17, 2011)

emtchick171 said:


> I agree there are a lot of younger immature people. However not all. Just because I'm 21 does that mean I shouldn't be the lead medic on my truck? As well as a lieutenant for my shift?



Brown doesn't know you so can't say

Our experience (as well as Australia and the UK) has been for nearly the last four decades that we only employed older people who had gotten work and life experience which we believed (rightly or wrongly) made them better at the core functions of an Ambulance Officer: people skills, decision making, maturity and self accountability.

Brown (and the majority of AOs) believe that we were right because in our collective experience the introduction of mandated higher education over vocational training has seen an influx of young students and graduate paramedics who are about 22 years of age. 

Again, the collective experience put forward at the ACAP/IRCP conference from Charles Sturt University (NSW), the Justice Institute (BC) and here in NZ is that many problems stem from a lack of maturity in young students and applicants.

Brown knows several Ambulance Officers including an Intensive Care Paramedic who are young (comparative to what was considered the norm) and they are bloody fantastic so its a bit hit and miss.

Truth be told Brown was once turned down from the Ambulance Service for needing more "life experience".


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## Lifeguards For Life (Jul 17, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Truth be told Brown was once turned down from the Ambulance Service for needing more "life experience".



I'll tell you I got more" life experience than I ever wanted when I got into EMS.


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## rmabrey (Jul 17, 2011)

I often think that "mature" can be a strong word for anyone in this field


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## colorado207 (Jul 17, 2011)

I think it's best to be able to take _almost _anything seriously, 
and to be able to take _almost_ anything not seriously.


I really respect the type of guy that can keep a straight face through almost anything, and one that remembers that...a lot of times.... it could be you on the other end.


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## usalsfyre (Jul 17, 2011)

Personally, I feel age has made me far better at the non-clinical aspects of patient care. I'm far less judgmental, am more tolerant of non-emergent type calls, and generally put more emphasis on what we can do "for" the patient rather than "to" them. Most GOOD paramedics I know who started at a young age share similar stories. There's no way in hell you could have told me this at 20 though.

Ask me if age has made me more tolerant of bad paramedicine though .


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## mintygood (Jul 17, 2011)

I can certainly understand OP's frustration.  I was in the situation the other day where our pt had to be transported from his nursing home to the oncology center at the local hospital for radiation.  when we got there, we found that his cath bag was completely full.  I, never surprised when a CNA fails to do his/her job, just grab a urinal and empty the bag.  No biggie, not causing a fuss, just doing what needs to be done for the pts good.  My partner didn't seem to agree and said that I was wasting our time in front of the pt.  UG.


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## SixEightWhiskey (Jul 17, 2011)

I would certainly say that working in EMS requires a certain standard of maturity. It's very high visibility, very exposed to public perception, and the last thing you want to do is give the impression that you aren't taking your job seriously, or worse, not competent to perform it. A patient needs to be reassured that you're a professional in every capacity. All civilian EMS personnel I've ever dealt with have been excellent, professional, courteous, and so on. Keeping this perception is important, especially at city/county agencies where EMS budgets are decided by the voters. Something to keep in mind.


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## Dougy (Jul 17, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> That's what happens when you have a "dozen" or so 16-17 y/o EMTs.  About 0.01% of EMTs under 18 y/o are anything I would even begin to approximate as "mature".  Hell, only about 5% of EMTs under 30 y/o are so....



I'd like to think I fall into that five percent.. at least some times.


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## BrickEMT (Jul 28, 2011)

Well to me it all depends on where you are. When we're at the station or alone in the rig we joke around and do some pretty "immature" stuff but never reckless. The second we're with a patient it's nothing but professionalism, sometimes we'll try to get some humor out of the situation but only if the patient starts the joking. We also watch ourselves out in public like @ dunkin doughnuts or wawa. We're mostly twenty-somethings on for 10-12 hours in a town where it can either be non-stop calls or dead silence for the entire shift, we need something to occupy ourselves.


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## Blessed187 (Jul 29, 2011)

NVRob said:


> Don't blanket statement younger people please. There are plenty of younger EMTs and medics on here that are very mature for their age.
> 
> To say that a 'twentysomething' emt/medic have no maturity, is disrespectful and rude, to be honest, borderline immature as well.



Thank you Rob! You beat me to it. lol


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## MrBrown (Jul 29, 2011)

Life skills are the most important aspect of being a good Ambulance Officer. Young people Brown has seen often struggle and have difficulty relating to patients. 

You need life skills, experience and maturity which a lot of young people just do not have.  This also has an impact on people who want to just rip in and do everything to everybody when clinical conservatisim may in fact be best and again, this is disproportionately seen in young people who are overzealous and gung ho. 

Sorry if this sounds negative for the young people who are keen but when you sit there staring across the back of the vehicle from a patient and cannot strike up a conversation or relate to them or understand them, say inappropriate things or can't do the dishes on station because Mum has always done them for you perhaps you are not in the right place.


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## guttruck (Jul 29, 2011)

if there is a crap job in the medical field I have done it. The thing most people in the medical field tend to forget is that we are here to help and make a positive difference in peoples lives. You may not like wiping up after people but you do it anyway. There is a little saying we throw around here "Saving lives and Making a Difference", and our county FD's motto is "A Concern for Others." When you stop wanting to make a difference and stop having a concern for others IMO you need to find a new line of work. It is one thing to let off steam in the truck but its another to disrespect someone to their face.


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## colorado207 (Jul 29, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Life skills are the most important aspect of being a good Ambulance Officer. Young people Brown has seen often struggle and have difficulty relating to patients.


I think a huge part of the problem is that older people(patients) simply do not place as much trust in younger medical workers as they do older ones. Face it, one of the last shreds of control over a bad situation for a patient might be to distrust or condescend a younger looking emt.


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## smelleecat (Aug 1, 2011)

Amycus said:


> When I'm on a call? I'm 100% "treat everyone as if they were your Grandma" bedside type manners, to the patient and family.
> 
> When I'm off the call or back in the truck? I'll likely crack some jokes or poke fun at what I can, or my partner might.
> 
> It's part of what keeps you sane in this job: Having a great partner to talk to, and being able to keep everything in perspective. People have different ways to cope, that's one of them.



totally agree here


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## CheifBud (Aug 2, 2011)

I consider myself a mature person but I admit the first time I saw a nurse in the ER do a Cath on a unconscious male patient (male myself) during my clinical rotation I actually jumped away a little it happened so fast.  Coincidentally got feces on me twice that day during my first clinical so that's out of the way.

I really like the word usage of "humbled".  That sums it up perfectly, this gentleman is probably having the crappiest (jokes can be fun) day in weeks and deserves a medical technician that can understand basic human anatomy and knows how to wash their hands... I mean for god sake GET OVER IT.  I have never taken my car to a mechanic only to have him say, "I don't know, my hands might get greasy, that's why I got into auto repair in the first place, I hate small tight spaces, loud noises, and dirt/grease".

  If you can't understand the fact that YOU are not the one whose having a rough day then you are going to HATE your job.


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## LoveColorado (Aug 6, 2011)

Some are just burned out!


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## jona2125 (Aug 8, 2011)

that's pretty sad. I made sure I knew to be better than that. I shake my head at quite a few classmates and techs sometimes. It's very embarassing to see how openly they will act in a professional setting. 

Patient care comes before my ego that's a must in this business. Sure you can make jokes all you want but that just looks bad. Save it for after the call at least.


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## JonTullos (Aug 9, 2011)

On the call, it's strictly business at the scene, with the patient and at the ED. After the call, do what you do. People already have a bad impression of us and we've got to make sure we do nothing but take care of business when it comes to the patient. That doesn't mean we can't have fun to a degree if the situation allows it but we must maintain professionalism at all times.


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## Lucy212 (Aug 10, 2011)

*Behavior*

_"he made the process much harder by refusing to actually touch the patient, and when we got back to the truck he made a few comments about how gross the whole experience had been"_


Your partner may have been immature by making comments and a funny face, although he/she might not have seen it that way. They might have been trying to make light of the situation to make it more bearable to him/herself...

That being said, if they need to behave that way to alleviate any uncomfortableness or awkwardness or even "ickiness" then perhaps a sensitivity training would be good for them to attend. Or why not flip the script on them, and ask them how they would feel if they were the patient who needed padding placed beneath them and the EMS responders on scene were not willing to even touch him and help him when he needed it. 

In addition, it is sad to read that your partner made the situation harder for everyone involved because he did not want to touch the patient. That's what BSI is for. Don the gloves, and help the patient with his pad. If that patient was ANO your partner should have absolutely kept that in mind and if still needed they could have griped about the call when it was completed and no longer in the presence of the patient.

I would hope that on further calls, this EMT can be more helpful to everyone involved.

~ L


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## coastiewifejenna (Aug 12, 2011)

*Maturity*

I have seen EMT-B and EMT-P all do things that they say try to help them cope.  To me I think that there is a time and a place for behavior and in the presence of a Pt. isn't one of them.  I have seen my fair share of stuff and I always treat it like it was my grandparent or mom or dad or sister or spouse or my own kid. Becuase these people are just that to someone else. If you can not respect people on that level, just remember someday if you are lucky enough to make it there, you will be old and febile too.  Karma is a sneaky one.


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## traumaluv2011 (Aug 14, 2011)

I think that is the stupidest thing. I am 19, so yea I am young, however that doesn't mean I act like some college frat guy. This is a serious profession. You have people's lives at stake and you are going to act like 12 year old? Something tells me you are not mature enough for this position. I have have gone to a few calls where patients are wearing hospital gowns, only a t-shirt, even wearing nothing. 

Most of the time it is because the patient can't dress themselves because of their condition. These people are embarrassed or scared as is, and you need to be professional about this stuff.


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## Lady_EMT (Aug 15, 2011)

traumaluv2011 said:


> I think that is the stupidest thing. I am 19, so yea I am young, however that doesn't mean I act like some college frat guy. This is a serious profession. You have people's lives at stake and you are going to act like 12 year old? Something tells me you are not mature enough for this position. I have have gone to a few calls where patients are wearing hospital gowns, only a t-shirt, even wearing nothing.
> 
> Most of the time it is because the patient can't dress themselves because of their condition. These people are embarrassed or scared as is, and you need to be professional about this stuff.



Easy there, killer.

Sure, there are immature people in this field, but as long as people can contain it when they're in the presence of the patient/family, and only let loose when they're in the privacy of the rig or headquarters, then they're fine. We need to be able to let loose and have a few laughs. Sure, when someone opens the door naked thinking they're Abe Lincoln because their sugar is too low, of course I'm going to be serious and compassionate. But if you're telling me that you aren't going to have a good chuckle over it later on, then you have no sense of humor. 

You won't make it in this field if you can't have a laugh. Sometimes it's those "immature" people that make the best EMTs - They can laugh and be light hearted, but the second those tones drop they can become serious and focused, because they aren't holding onto all that tension from previous calls.

(Disclaimer:: Obviously there's a difference between being light hearted and IMMATURE. I know that. )


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## Sasha (Aug 15, 2011)

traumaluv2011 said:


> I think that is the stupidest thing. I am 19, so yea I am young, however that doesn't mean I act like some college frat guy. This is a serious profession. You have people's lives at stake and you are going to act like 12 year old? Something tells me you are not mature enough for this position. I have have gone to a few calls where patients are wearing hospital gowns, only a t-shirt, even wearing nothing.
> 
> Most of the time it is because the patient can't dress themselves because of their condition. These people are embarrassed or scared as is, and you need to be professional about this stuff.



Lighten up, our job can be hilarious.

In the privacy of the truck.

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk


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## Handsome Robb (Aug 15, 2011)

Lady_EMT said:


> Sure, when someone opens the door naked thinking they're Abe Lincoln because their sugar is too low, of course I'm going to be serious and compassionate. But if you're telling me that you aren't going to have a good chuckle over it later on, then you have no sense of humor.



If my partner didn't think this was funny after the run was done I think I'd turn around and take them back to the hospital to get checked out. :rofl:


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## bmedicp (Aug 15, 2011)

This is a personal opinion but..................older or younger.....it just comes down to there are so many different types of people that work in ems. Some are way too serious, some are way too immature. And when I realized that, my job got a lot easier. Its just like when you get to work with someone you get along with, your day is soooooo much fun, when you work with someone you can't stand, the days drags by so slow. Ignoring irritating partners has become another job for me.


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## firetender (Aug 15, 2011)

If you really think about it, the whole mess is absurd from top to bottom. We get to witness humanity at its most ridiculous. The name of the game is to seek a non-invasive time and place to laugh about it. Preferably with people who can ROLF and then get back up from there to compassion.


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## AMF (Aug 16, 2011)

Honestly, most of this thread really surprises me.  I would never dream of laughing at a patient.  On duty or off.  Ever.  

There are a good bunch of EMS services, some of them ALS, that are run just by college students.  Mine is one of them.  Age really has nothing to do with it.  There are trustifarians of all sorts, in every profession.


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## traumaluv2011 (Aug 16, 2011)

I forgot to elaborate on that. Yes, I am very serious about this profession while we have the patient, family, etc. in our company. I am usually working with another 19 year old EMT (who has 2 years of experience) we have our quips and stuff on the way back to headquarters about the call. 

Just for instance, he was helping move a patient who was experiencing weakness in one of her legs. He was basically hugging her to turn her around onto the stretcher and I asked him later if he was trying to slow dance with her.


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## abckidsmom (Aug 16, 2011)

AMF said:


> Honestly, most of this thread really surprises me.  I would never dream of laughing at a patient.  On duty or off.  Ever.
> 
> There are a good bunch of EMS services, some of them ALS, that are run just by college students.  Mine is one of them.  Age really has nothing to do with it.  There are trustifarians of all sorts, in every profession.



I'm going to guess that you haven't actually run many calls, cause there are plenty of situations that are just plain ridiculous, and the only reasonable thing to do is laugh.  

Mean-spirited laughing at people's poop, or something stupid like that, no.  But can I tell you about the time I peeled a guy up off of the floor of a busy convenience store because he was puking non stop and too weak to stand all the while debating him because he wanted to stay down there, the tiles were nice and cool.  We got him on the stretcher, and the next paroxysm of vomiting, he hurled himself back onto the floor, ready to stay there forever.

You just can't make this stuff up sometimes.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 16, 2011)

> I'm going to guess that you haven't actually run many calls, cause there are plenty of situations that are just plain ridiculous, and the only reasonable thing to do is laugh.



That was my thought too.  If you don't laugh, you'll find yourself staring down a bottle or a barrel very quickly if you try to stay in this field.


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## Sasha (Aug 16, 2011)

AMF said:


> Honestly, most of this thread really surprises me.  I would never dream of laughing at a patient.  On duty or off.  Ever.
> 
> There are a good bunch of EMS services, some of them ALS, that are run just by college students.  Mine is one of them.  Age really has nothing to do with it.  There are trustifarians of all sorts, in every profession.



Being that you're a student... that makes sense. I thought the same way when i was just starting out  but if you don't learn to laugh you will never last.

Some things are just plain funny. Mystery catheter leaking all over and you and your partner play "Name that body fluid" (It was either bile or pee. My vote is still bile.) or talking about how the patient crawling down the stairs looked a lot like a scene from the exorcist.

It makes light of a crappy situation, and allows you to go home every day not feeling like crap.


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## firetender (Aug 17, 2011)

Giving yourself permission to laugh can only be balanced by allowing yourself equal permission to cry. All that means is finding appropriate times and places and when you need, people to do it with. 

When you only give yourself permission to do one, the other doesn't die. It sticks in your gut until it bursts out when IT wants to, not you. 

This thread is about e-motion -- ENERGY in motion -- and how we either express or suppress it. People are saying it's a tool of sanity. I couldn't agree more, but don't neglect the other tools in that box!


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## sirengirl (Aug 17, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Some things are just plain funny.



The old codger on the Lance Armstrong bike with the little bike shorts who ate sidewalk and, when my medic asked what we should do with the chunk missing from his ear since he was denying transport, said, "Bahh, I don't need it anyways. I'll just go home and take a shower."

:rofl:


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## abckidsmom (Aug 17, 2011)

sirengirl said:


> The old codger on the Lance Armstrong bike with the little bike shorts who ate sidewalk and, when my medic asked what we should do with the chunk missing from his ear since he was denying transport, said, "Bahh, I don't need it anyways. I'll just go home and take a shower."
> 
> :rofl:



What's a piece of ear if you're beyond needing to pick up chicks?


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## Anthony7994 (Aug 28, 2011)

Scout said:


> Hey, I pride myself on being immature. Life is not fun if you cant act like a child.
> 
> I am also on occasion professional.



+1! :rofl:


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## Hunter (Aug 28, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> Life skills are the most important aspect of being a good Ambulance Officer. Young people Brown has seen often struggle and have difficulty relating to patients.
> 
> You need life skills, experience and maturity which a lot of young people just do not have.  This also has an impact on people who want to just rip in and do everything to everybody when clinical conservatisim may in fact be best and again, this is disproportionately seen in young people who are overzealous and gung ho.
> 
> Sorry if this sounds negative for the young people who are keen but when you sit there staring across the back of the vehicle from a patient and cannot strike up a conversation or relate to them or understand them, say inappropriate things or can't do the dishes on station because Mum has always done them for you perhaps you are not in the right place.



Sorry Brown but I have to completely disagree. I think that as a young person you probably have a much better chance of being able to strike up a conversation with a broader range of patients. ou get young patients you can relate to them better, you get older patients with familys ie. kids, you can strike up a conversation about your own parents, or their family. Age has some what an affect on it but like you said "life Skills" are whats important, I don't think you only aquire those through age but more through your own upbringing. I'm 22 and I've been on a ride along where the older firefighters are the more unprofessional ones. I once had a patient who thought I was a supervisor because I was dressed differently. To use a blanket and group everyone who's young as immature or too inexperienced to do a good job with patient care is very judgmental. Which I'm sorry to say is a trait that unfortunately a large number of young people share.
Don't judge a book by it's cover. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I don't have significant "life experience"


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## Hunter (Aug 28, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Being that you're a student... that makes sense. I thought the same way when i was just starting out  but if you don't learn to laugh you will never last.
> 
> Some things are just plain funny. Mystery catheter leaking all over and you and your partner play "Name that body fluid" (It was either bile or pee. My vote is still bile.) or talking about how the patient crawling down the stairs looked a lot like a scene from the exorcist.
> 
> It makes light of a crappy situation, and allows you to go home every day not feeling like crap.



I agree that humor is necessary but in I would hope that you wouldn't make these joke sin front of the Pt like the situation the OP was in.


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## Straycoyote (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm sorry, but if you are unwilling to help someone at their lowest (especially when they are really nice about asking) then you don't need to be in this field. Do the EMT's who actually WANT the job a favor and get a new career. I may not have a lot of experience (or hell, any) but I know better than to act that immature when someone is in that situation. Sorry, but seeing people naked, incontinent, covered in vomit, blood and or guts is part of the job, even if your a Basic. It's just a fact. If you aren't prepared to deal with that then you can't provide any real care to a patient.


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## joeshmoe (Oct 20, 2011)

Behavior like this is why many health care providers dont consider EMTs to be health care professionals. In the hospital I work at everybody helps out with patient care. As a PCT if I need help doing something with a patient and respiratory is the only one available at the moment, they will usually help out. 

Occasionally when were really busy PT will even fill in as an aide for a time. I dont see them carrying on about how its "gross" or they are above that kind of work, despite the fact they have years of medical education, opposed to the few months that EMT had that apparently now makes them above such work.


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## FourLoko (Oct 22, 2011)

Straycoyote said:


> I'm sorry, but if you are unwilling to help someone at their lowest (especially when they are really nice about asking) then you don't need to be in this field. Do the EMT's who actually WANT the job a favor and get a new career. I may not have a lot of experience (or hell, any) but I know better than to act that immature when someone is in that situation. Sorry, but seeing people naked, incontinent, covered in vomit, blood and or guts is part of the job, even if your a Basic. It's just a fact. If you aren't prepared to deal with that then you can't provide any real care to a patient.



Good post. You see a lot of lows as an EMT-B and with a limited scope you aren't saving the day like you really want to be. What you are doing is caring for the physical and more often the emotional needs of the patient.

Normally I'm an emotionally detached person (not overly emotional and such) but on the job it's like some switch is flipped. I'll talk to patients who can't answer so they know I'm not just treating them like a piece of meat. Do what I can to make them comfortable, etc.

Waiting for my partner to get a report at a hospital I'll help the random guy in the other room who doesn't speak English but is clearly asking for his gown to be tied. I'll turn on the TV for the guy in bed two when I'm picking up bed one.

If you can't be receptive to and handle the basic things like these then you aren't going to be of much use.


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## tssemt2010 (Oct 22, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I agree that it comes from experience (to a point), but wholeheartedly disagree that it comes from age.



i would agree, i am 20 years old and have been doing this over a year now and have NEVER acted like that, sometimes you just gotta grow a pair and do your job!


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## tune99 (Nov 16, 2011)

Monkey said:


> Considering the average age of most EMT's and Medics, it's not surprising.  Maturity comes from age and experience, and twentysomethings have neither.
> 
> Then again, I know some older EMT's that aren't much better, but they're inexperienced in the field so I chalk it up to that.


all a matter of the person.. the 20 something can be a grandpa on the inside and the medic with 10 15 20+ years of experience can still be a jackass.. Just a dumb fact of life


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## nyirishemt (Dec 5, 2011)

I wouldn't chalk this behavior just to immaturity, I've seen some older emts act this way because they've become desensitized after so many years of being an emt....people just stop caring....and when that happens its time to find a new job.


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