# Why go to medical school?



## Veneficus (Mar 21, 2010)

Proposed Bill Would Make La. Firefighters Exempt from Medical Oversight

"written by state Rep. Karen St. Germain from the Baton Rouge area, makes all firefighters exempt from any medical or emergency oversight when they're at a scene." 

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=12530&siteSection=1


the mindless union guys must love this, no way to get into trouble for being a screw up.


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## MrBrown (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh boo hoo poor bloody firefighters because big bad medical oversight is always making it hard for them to practice piss poor paramedicine using minimally educated providers.

This is where it gets really scary, 



> ...exempt [firefighters] from the authority of the Louisiana Emergency Medical Services Certification Commission to conduct disciplinary hearings, request investigations, and initiate prosecution...



So *who* are these guys going to answer to? The Avon Lady?

I'd like to get ahold of the bunch of wankers who wrote this slop up.


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## trevor1189 (Mar 21, 2010)

“the intent of the legislation is that we don't need the EMS board in on our discipline. A lot of the firefighters think they treat us like criminals, like we’re always wrong." 

If they don't want to go under the rules of EMS, stick to fighting the fires!

This is absoluetly ridiculous.<_<


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## Silver_Lining (Mar 21, 2010)

@_@  

:S



@_@

that's all I have to say about that. that bill best not pass. puke!
-c-


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## firecoins (Mar 21, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> So *who* are these guys going to answer to? The Avon Lady?


The Avon Lady has a bachelor's.


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## MrBrown (Mar 21, 2010)

firecoins said:


> The Avon Lady has a bachelor's.



Well I do too, and I used to pedal Herbalife; does that mean I'm overqualified?


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## JPINFV (Mar 21, 2010)

Link to the legislation

Link

Additional notes: Caps certification fee at $15 and recert fees at $10 for fire fighters and police officers who don't work in EMS outside of their government job.

Exempts fire fighters from being investigated by the EMS board.


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## Veneficus (Mar 21, 2010)

I read the legislation, the recert fee while I think it is unfair is not outrageous.



JPINFV said:


> Exempts fire fighters from being investigated by the EMS board.



How comforting.

As I eluded to earlier, FDs are not exactly known for policing their own. Maybe we could get this type of law in DC?

There is much less nepotism than in LA


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## emt835 (Mar 21, 2010)

speaking from both sides of this coin.  firefighters get away with too much as it is and if anyone needs to be held accountable its them


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## CAOX3 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cowboy medicine.

Well with the increased liability of practicing medicine without an education we should also give them a raise.


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## fortsmithman (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm glad I live in Canada where EMS is regulated, and has better education standards.


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## medic417 (Mar 21, 2010)

So are we all just complaining here on an anonymous forum or are you sending your thoughts to the news reports as well as the government agencies involved?


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## MrBrown (Mar 21, 2010)

medic417 said:


> So are we all just complaining here on an anonymous forum or are you sending your thoughts to the news reports as well as the government agencies involved?



Yeah the first is the path of least resistance .....


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## Veneficus (Mar 22, 2010)

medic417 said:


> So are we all just complaining here on an anonymous forum or are you sending your thoughts to the news reports as well as the government agencies involved?



I don't think this represenative came up with this little gem on their own, I'm willing to bet somebody is pushing thier agenda. 

Calling a FD or politician in another state to complain is a waste of time.

Taken in concert with the burdon of proof required to win a suit against a government agency this would amount to an unrestricted license without accountability to practice medicine. 

Even a physician needs to be accountable to state agency. Too bad we can't get some tea baggers to protest waste and abuse in front of a FD.


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## triemal04 (Mar 22, 2010)

Jesus christ people...can I give out a bit of advice?  Read the linked article.  Read the link within the article to the actual bill, read the link JPINFV posted (which is again for the bill), then stop and think about what you just read.  Then reread all that, think some more, and only then post a reply.  It'll help cut down on the knee-jerk reactions, which is about all that has been posted so far.

Some food for thought:
1.  From the article it would appear that there are some issues relating to the LA EMS Certification Commission; whether or not it's "bad blood" between them and some firefighters, or a more serious issues is not clear, but something precipitated this.  Be good to know what.
2.  Felton is right; Dr. Saussy (gotta love that name though ) is spreading "boogie man stuff, not fact."  If anybody bothered to actually READ the bill, that is clear.
3.  The bill does not only apply to firefighters, but to all publically employed EMT's and paramedics.  New Orleans EMS anyone?
4.  The bill does not remove all oversight of the Certification Commission from said EMT's/medics; it does leave disciplinary action to the local agencies though, and really, this isn't a good idea.  Even if there are problems with the Commission (something that does need to be known before anybody flips out...again) it'd be better to fix those issues than remove the statewide authority.  While it doesn't apply to all FD's OR third-service (or other publically funded EMS services), there are some who should have someone looking over their shoulders as far as discipline is concerned.
5.  The bill does not exempt anybody from following their scope of practice, the required training for their level, or from having medical oversight.  (hence the "boogieman" comment)  I don't know about LA, but in most states, those things are written into law; this bill does not apply to any of that.
6.  This bill only applies to a very small section of whatever laws govern EMS in LA, and only changes a small bit of it.


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## Veneficus (Mar 22, 2010)

triemal04 said:


> 5.  The bill does not exempt anybody from following their scope of practice, the required training for their level, or from having medical oversight.  (hence the "boogieman" comment)  I don't know about LA, but in most states, those things are written into law; this bill does not apply to any of that.



Without state oversight and discipline who will enforce those mandates? the police?

What stops somebody from getting an absentee medical director who only pencil whips his name across the paperwork?

If firefighters and public EMS are exempt from state oversight, why not privates? Doctors? Nurses? It sets a very poor precident.

Who intervenes when the agency investigation and discipline in not adequete?




triemal04 said:


> 6.  This bill only applies to a very small section of whatever laws govern EMS in LA, and only changes a small bit of it.



Yea, the accountability part. That is the problem.


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## triemal04 (Mar 23, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> Without state oversight and discipline who will enforce those mandates? the police?
> That is part of the problem, and part of why this bill isn't that much of a good idea.  But, and this may vary from state to state, how much oversight does the LA EMS Commission have on a daily basis?  Do they only investigate when something makes the news?  When a formal complaint is filed with the state?  Do they do periodic checks of all EMS agencies to ensure compliance?  Personally, I don't have a clue, and I highly doubt that anyone who has responded in this thread does either.  I think though, from the way the bill is written, that it will only apply to individual EMS employees; if a service is found to be in violation of a state law that pertains to EMS I think that the Commission would still be able to go through the appropriate process.  But, admittedly, I could be wrong; that may be something that lawyers end up making a lot of money off of.
> 
> What stops somebody from getting an absentee medical director who only pencil whips his name across the paperwork?
> ...


To be clear, I think this bill, with what I know about it, which is very little, is a bad idea, for the reasons I listed, and for what you listed.  That being said, I'd like to know a lot more to be able to be completely sure about somethings I've said and to be able to give an informed opinion on it.  Something many people here are incapable of...

It absolutely infuriates me though, when this kind of topic comes up, people will toss out random comments that, when the facts are looked at, are completely and utterly wrong and worthless.


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