# Why do alot of EMTs go into nursing?



## redbull (Aug 19, 2011)

Why do alot of EMTs go into nursing as opposed to any other medical field? It seems common...


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2011)

Nursing school is easier to get into and through than medical school...


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## redbull (Aug 19, 2011)

But they are two totally different professions...(MD/PA vs Nursing)


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2011)

Yea, and nursing is a completely different profession than paramedic.

Nursing can also be completed with relatively minimal pre-reqs, guaranteed admission (how many nursing programs have wait lists?) and you can get in and out in 2-3 years. Medicine, on the other hand, requires about 2 years of specific pre-reqs, a bachelor degree (which can include the pre-reqs), an admissions test, 4 years of medical school, 3+ years of residency and fellowship training, and there's absolutely no guarantee that you will ever be admitted since med school wait lists are normally either purged after every application cycle OR extremely limited with guaranteed admission for the next year only.


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## redbull (Aug 19, 2011)

I just figured perhaps nursing was the next logical choice in patient care, as I see by the number of EMTs I worked with in my private company who went to nursing school. While those factors you mentioned are valid, you also have to take into account that nursing isn't for everyone. I know a PA that worked for a little bit while he was in PA school, but its not like alot go into PA...


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## Shishkabob (Aug 19, 2011)

I see a greater percentage of PAs who used to be Paramedics than nurses that used to be medics...



As to why?  Better pay, better hours.


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2011)

Linuss said:


> I see a greater percentage of PAs who used to be Paramedics than nurses that used to be medics...
> 
> 
> 
> As to why?  Better pay, better hours.




Relative vs absolute statistics at play.


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## Shishkabob (Aug 19, 2011)

Doesn't make it any less anecdotal OR true ^_^





Oh yes, I just used both those in the same sentence.


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Doesn't make it any less anecdotal OR true ^_^
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Never said it did. Just pointing out that "greater percent" and "greater number" aren't the same thing.


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## Shishkabob (Aug 19, 2011)

Which is why I phrased it the way I did


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## usalsfyre (Aug 19, 2011)

Despite the fact that paramedicine insist on comparing itself to nursing, the jobs are rather different. A paramedic is probably far closer functionally to a mid-level provider than a nurse.

Of course if we compared ourselves to PAs and NPs we'd have to admit how inadequate our education really is...


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## redbull (Aug 19, 2011)

I wanna clarify, I was wondering about the trend in career choice as opposed to the money although I'm sure money plays a role, I really noticed a lot of my emt friends, as well as what ytou see on the discussion threads on emtlife, that a lot go into nursing instead of PA/MD. Of course, you have the few who used ems as a stepping stone (certification, some volunteer hrs) to apply to med school, but the qurstion was directed more at people that work for a living as emts as opposed to Joe Six Pack who takes the class just so it looks good on his resume for med school (although now Hofstra is making PAs and MDs take the emt course_


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## usalsfyre (Aug 19, 2011)

Because as JPINFV noted, nursing is a vastly cheaper, shorter and likely easier educational road than medical or PA programs.


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## redbull (Aug 19, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Because as JPINFV noted, nursing is a vastly cheaper, shorter and likely easier educational road than medical or PA programs.



As is xray tech school, respiratory therapist school, etc. But why nursing?


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## abckidsmom (Aug 19, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> Despite the fact that paramedicine insist on comparing itself to nursing, the jobs are rather different. A paramedic is probably far closer functionally to a mid-level provider than a nurse.
> 
> Of course if we compared ourselves to PAs and NPs we'd have to admit how inadequate our education really is...



Yep, I used to want to see something like an advanced practice paramedic come along and actually be able to help people with their actual needs on scenes, instead of just driving them to the ER, but the education is just not there for it.

I am a medic who was a medic, who went to nursing school, who worked as a nurse, and bailed from the hospital because I was miserable there.  I'm sure I could have survived it now, if I HAD to, but the 22 year old me was outta there!

The personality type that excels as a medic has to be subdued to work in a real, shoulder to shoulder working closely with others for long shifts kinda job.  Otherwise the coworkers will all go postal on the former medic.


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## usalsfyre (Aug 19, 2011)

redbull said:


> As is xray tech school, respiratory therapist school, etc. But why nursing?



Pay, pure and simple.


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## usalsfyre (Aug 19, 2011)

abckidsmom said:


> Yep, I used to want to see something like an advanced practice paramedic come along and actually be able to help people with their actual needs on scenes, instead of just driving them to the ER, but the education is just not there for it.
> 
> I am a medic who was a medic, who went to nursing school, who worked as a nurse, and bailed from the hospital because I was miserable there.  I'm sure I could have survived it now, if I HAD to, but the 22 year old me was outta there!
> 
> The personality type that excels as a medic has to be subdued to work in a real, shoulder to shoulder working closely with others for long shifts kinda job.  Otherwise the coworkers will all go postal on the former medic.



This is precisely why I've pretty much discarded the idea of going to nursing school. The money's better, the hours are better...I just like being somewhat autonomous too much.


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## Shishkabob (Aug 19, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> This is precisely why I've pretty much discarded the idea of going to nursing school. The money's better, the hours are better...I just like being somewhat autonomous too much.



Ditto.  I like how I have not only the authority, but the ability and expectation to make my own decisions and solve problems on my own, using my own brain, not relying on someone else.


Honestly, only nursing I could see myself doing is as a flight nurse, and even then that'd need atleast 5 years in the ER or ICU.




usalsfyre said:


> Pay, pure and simple.



And the ability to go to different areas of medicine when one's bored witht he current area.


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## abckidsmom (Aug 19, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Ditto.  I like how I have not only the authority, but the ability and expectation to make my own decisions and solve problems on my own, using my own brain, not relying on someone else.
> 
> 
> Honestly, only nursing I could see myself doing is as a flight nurse, and even then that'd need atleast 5 years in the ER or ICU.
> ...



I refer back to things I learned in my one measely year in a busy ICU all. the. time.  If you have time energy and money to do something similar to what I did, then go back to EMS, it can only help you as a medic.  All of the nurses I know who left nursing to go back into EMS are in education and QA now, and do their jobs well.

That's pretty anecdotal, and might point to that strong personality failing as a nurse, but succeeding as a medic, but it's a strong trend that I see.


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## firetender (Aug 19, 2011)

The attraction of Nursing would have to be stability, flexibility (career paths) and compensation. EMS just isn't there yet.


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## nwhitney (Aug 19, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Nursing can also be completed with relatively minimal pre-reqs, guaranteed admission (how many nursing programs have wait lists?) and you can get in and out in 2-3 years.



Guaranteed admission? Not here.  It's pretty damn tough to get into a nursing program here.


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## JPINFV (Aug 19, 2011)

nwhitney said:


> Guaranteed admission? Not here.  It's pretty damn tough to get into a nursing program here.




...maybe massive wait lists is a California thing. Often in California it's not a question of "if," but "how long do I have to wait?"


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## sir.shocksalot (Aug 19, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> ...maybe massive wait lists is a California thing. Often in California it's not a question of "if," but "how long do I have to wait?"


I think it's a bit of both across the united states. As nursing is moving away from employing ADN nurses in favor of BSN nurses there is a growing number of applicants to BSN programs, which allows them to be more selective.
I know here in CO getting into CU pretty much requires a 3.5+ GPA to get in, same with CSU and Regis. There are some ADN programs that have wait lists but it's getting harder for ADNs to find a job with so many BSNs and RNs with experience running around.

As far as why medics go to RN school, as others have said, money. Becoming an RN takes 2-4 years, becoming a PA takes 2-3 years in addition to a BS/BA, MD is 4 plus a BS/BA and a residency of at least 3 years, often more. RN is a quick way to stay in a medical field and make a livable wage.


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## b2dragun (Aug 19, 2011)

Medic to RN bridge makes it a pretty quick and easy transition.  More money, controlled environment, and a 3 day a week schedule.  If I didn't mind cleaning pts or being in one spot for more than 10min I would do it.


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## Chief Complaint (Aug 19, 2011)

I only browsed this thread.  Not sure if its been mentioned but in addition to a higher salary, there are just more jobs in nursing.  Every nurse I know landed a job shortly after school, but I know quite a few unemployed medics.  People get frustrated and eventually take the 'safer' career route.


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## hoss42141 (Aug 19, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> ...maybe massive wait lists is a California thing. Often in California it's not a question of "if," but "how long do I have to wait?"



I know here the waiting list is 1 yr.


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## sir.shocksalot (Aug 19, 2011)

Chief Complaint said:


> I only browsed this thread.  Not sure if its been mentioned but in addition to a higher salary, there are just more jobs in nursing.  Every nurse I know landed a job shortly after school, but I know quite a few unemployed medics.  People get frustrated and eventually take the 'safer' career route.


That's not the case anymore. It used to be that nurses were getting multiple job offers before they graduated, however new nurses (especially ADN) are having a hard time in many states to get _any_ job as an RN, let alone a good one at the specialty of their choice.


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## Chief Complaint (Aug 19, 2011)

sir.shocksalot said:


> That's not the case anymore. It used to be that nurses were getting multiple job offers before they graduated, however new nurses (especially ADN) are having a hard time in many states to get _any_ job as an RN, let alone a good one at the specialty of their choice.



I guess I can't speak for the entire country, but here in Northern VA/DC suburbs the market for nurses is still pretty good.  The market for career EMS personel is still a mess.


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## redbull (Aug 19, 2011)

Chief Complaint said:


> The market for career EMS personel is still a mess.



Love your username... 


Thanks guys. Thanks for the input.


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## LucidResq (Aug 19, 2011)

sir.shocksalot said:


> I know here in CO getting into CU pretty much requires a 3.5+ GPA to get in, same with CSU and Regis. There are some ADN programs that have wait lists but it's getting harder for ADNs to find a job with so many BSNs and RNs with experience running around.
> .



3.5 is the requirement on paper. I spoke to someone on their admissions board who told me they haven't taken anyone with anything under a 3.95 in years, and then there's still competition based on other factors of course. 

I think a lot of people start in EMS with the intention to go to nursing school eventually. You don't see a lot of former EMT xray techs or what not because nursing is more lucrative and diverse. Xray techs don't do a lot of direct patient care stuff either.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 19, 2011)

firetender said:


> The attraction of Nursing would have to be stability, flexibility (career paths) and compensation. EMS just isn't there yet.


That's pretty much it for me as well. I'm mostly looking for flexibility (career and schedule) and compensation. Much of my education has been along different lines... but once I'm done with my ADN, I've got enough education that a 2nd Bachelors only takes 6 classes to earn a BSN or 4 for entry to an MSN program. Should I be able to fairly quickly get a job out of school, that makes things much better as I'd be able to earn a living while continuing my education. Around here, one option is FNP and since most of that program runs concurrent with the PA school... I could take the PA-specific courses and go that route also. 

Mostly though, it's a means to an end. I have a good idea where I want to be in 20 - 30 years and Nursing is a good way to get there, if not start me down that path...


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## MusicMedic (Aug 20, 2011)

Im planning on going to Nursing School to get my ADN.. i have about two more semesters before i can apply.. 

Nursing school is cut throat in so-cal even the ADN programs here require generally a 3.5 GPA, BSN is even higher... waitlists range anywhere from 1-2 years (mira-costa college is 3 years!!!) 

Southern CA is oversaturated with New Grads.. its a very cuthroat market out here.. Sure there are alot of RN positions only if you have a years exp. Hospitals dont wanna train new grads as it costs time and money.  

even Nursing homes are being bombarded with new grads. (which i dont want to work at. ive heard some seriously scary horror stories. Nurses with patient ratios up to 1:35-40) 

i hope to get the hell out of CA as soon as im done with school as this state is going down the drain


but the nice part of Nursing is the schedule/pay and different specialties.


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## redbull (Aug 20, 2011)

Well, I still intend on going to nursing school. I've gotten all the pre-reqs done but here in NY its getting harder and harder to get into school on a part time status if you work full-time. Bachelor degree holders can now mostly only enter 2nd Degree ACCELERATED pathways...I have to work. And the community colleges for the most part are more competitive than the four-year public schools.

Honestly, I just felt it was the next logical step. While working for an IFT company, I got to talk to alot of nurses and shadow them. I couldn't get hold of a PA or an MD. Probably too busy. Given my circumstances, yeah I don't think I can take out a big loan to go to PA school and not work. Finances are bad right now too. There's always Nurse Practitioner (practically the same thing as PA)


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## Melclin (Aug 20, 2011)

I come to this forum mostly to learn. An added benefit though, it has to be said, is that when I get down about some of the problems in our system, reading threads like this make me a feel a little better. 

-We get paid more than nurses. Our working conditions are better in general (penalties for OT, spoilt meals etc)

-Our education requirements are arguably higher than nursing. The entry scores for paramedics degrees are considerably higher than nursing (A lot of the students in my degree just missed out on medicine so they did paramedics instead). Both degrees are three years. You register as a nurse after three years. You qualify as a paramedic after four (a graded internship in the forth year). Intensive care nursing requires a crit care cert and can sometimes be done straight out of undergrad. Intensive care paramedics are required to have _at least_ (usually more) three years qualified experience on road before they do a graduate diploma in intensive care, a higher qualification than the crit care cert. 

-I would subjectively say that paramedics are held in higher regard than nurses, in a professional sense.

-And here's the kicker: So many nurses are lining up to become paramedics here that unis have specially designed courses for nurses crossing over (ranging between 1-2 years). Where as you don't often find paramedics here who wanna be nurses (I've only met one, and he wanted to be a doctor, but was building up his GPA).

I'm not saying all this to be a d1ck. Other than the fact that I like to put another opinion across, *I find it vaguely offensive that people might feel that nursing is necessarily ABOVE paramedic practice, so I like to present a case study, if you like, of a system where that is not the case.*


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## redbull (Aug 20, 2011)

Melclin said:


> I come to this forum mostly to learn. An added benefit though, it has to be said, is that when I get down about some of the problems in our system, reading threads like this make me a feel a little better.
> 
> -We get paid more than nurses. Our working conditions are better in general (penalties for OT, spoilt meals etc)
> 
> ...



Very interesting! I still am considering paramedic as a backup plan (not to take anything away from being a paramedic), but I'd like to go into nursing, as I had an interest prior to taking my EMT course. 


Also, does anyone on here know if there's a paramedic challenge exam for nurses? If anything I'd like to do both!


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## BandageBrigade (Aug 20, 2011)

Melclin said:


> I come to this forum mostly to learn. An added benefit though, it has to be said, is that when I get down about some of the problems in our system, reading threads like this make me a feel a little better.
> 
> -We get paid more than nurses. Our working conditions are better in general (penalties for OT, spoilt meals etc)
> 
> ...



I understand what you are  saying, but not all places in the US are like the previous posts. I have the same if not more education as the nurses in the area(my service requires it) and our pay is equal to the pay for ER nurses in the area. We, unfortunitly, are the exception and not the rule.


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## Melclin (Aug 20, 2011)

BandageBrigade said:


> I understand what you are  saying, but not all places in the US are like the previous posts.... We, unfortunitly, are the exception and not the rule.



Yeah I certainly got that impression. Man, I envy some US services. Linus/usalfyre. In many ways we have a lot we could learn from some of them. We're behind in many ways.

Thats why I say I just like to put the idea out there as just a single case study. We're by no means the only, or even the best.


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## the_negro_puppy (Aug 20, 2011)

Melclin said:


> I come to this forum mostly to learn. An added benefit though, it has to be said, is that when I get down about some of the problems in our system, reading threads like this make me a feel a little better.
> 
> -We get paid more than nurses. Our working conditions are better in general (penalties for OT, spoilt meals etc)
> 
> ...



Indeed in Australia given the educational standards you wouldn't easily say that nurses are more educated etc than paramedics.  Whether or not we are seen to be 'above' nurses is another story. I think that a freshly qualified paramedic has much more responsibility and skills than a newly degreed RN. My ex is an RN and has been for several years and cannot perform IV access without doing a special course. I remember many of her subjects at uni seemed to involve writing essays on Australia's health system etc.

I think the move to degree only will help the image and education of paramedics in Australia. I am doing a the diploma method however I already have a BSc and a Masters degree in management. Looks like I will probably have to upgrade to the degree in the future.


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## Omygato (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm the opposite, I went from nursing to EMS.  What I learned from the whole experience is this.  Nursing school was a lot more work.  Two years of prerequisites, a two year waiting list in which priority is given to those who have a higher GPA.  Not to mention the NCLEX exam which you need to pass.  Going through nursing school was more demanding didactic wise, your scope of practice in nursing is a lot more than a EMT.  The clinicals were hectic also, time management is key in nursing. Redundant paper work is the norm.  The books we had to go through were thick, pharmacology, medsurg, OB, Peds, psych, ect.  Compared to one EMS book, Emergency Care in the streets.  Someone said that EMT's have a higher level of schooling than nurses, I don't think so.  Not even close.  I'm not bashing, just stating what I went through.  It may have been easier for me since I did have prior medical training and over 5 years of nursing experience.  The EMT course I went through wasn't that hard, the only prereq's were A&P and medical terminology.  I'm lucky to have had a great instructor though.  The skills testing was a whole different animal!  Anyways, nursing is a great profession.  The pay is good and your coworkers are a lot better looking.  But I like being able to relax 90% of the time and then be able to help those in need when called.  Better than running around like a chicken without a head as  I did while being a nurse.  EMS is catching up and soon will be a profession equal in status to Nursing.  The ball is rolling where I'm from.  Soon the EMT-P program will be Associates degree.  With all or most of the same prereq's as the nursing program.  It's a start.


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## JPINFV (Aug 21, 2011)

Omygato said:


> The books we had to go through were thick, pharmacology, medsurg, OB, Peds, psych, ect.



:rofl:



> Someone said that EMT's have a higher level of schooling than nurses, I don't think so.  Not even close.  I'm not bashing, just stating what I went through.



Um, considering the fact that that poster was not talking about the US.



> It may have been easier for me since I did have prior medical training and over 5 years of nursing experience.


Nitpicky time, but "nursing" education is not "medical" education. Something most nurses are more than willing to point out, least the NP be brought under the medical board.


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## Omygato (Aug 21, 2011)

Ha ha, I didn't join in to argue. I just wanted to share my experience.  The EMS program I attended trains to the EMT-I level, then when you obtain 200 calls you can go on to the 1800 hr MICT portion.  State certification requires at least 350 hrs of training I believe for EMT-B's to work.  Can be done in one semester fulltime after your prereqs.  The nursing program is at the minimum 3 semesters for LPN, five semesters for RN.  Not including the two years of prereqs. It's funny to hear so many EMT's wanting to go into nursing.  It's hard work.  Harder than EMS.  I've had ER nurses say that they secretly wish they were medics.  Grass is always greener I guess on the other side.  I'm happy that Ive done both, it gives me more insight.  I understand how hard it is to prepare a pt for transfer to a ER via ambulance.  How much paperwork is involved, the orders that need to be attained by the MD.  How limiting it can be working off generic standing orders and facility protocols.  Having to handle a declining pt while still being responsible for 36 other pt's and being a floor supervisor on top of that.  I work in a really good EMS system, top dollar pay, decent benefits.  From what I read it's not so great else where.  I guess the job security and pay is better in nursing for the most part compared to some EMS systems.


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## redbull (Aug 21, 2011)

Omygato said:


> I'm the opposite, I went from nursing to EMS.  What I learned from the whole experience is this.  Nursing school was a lot more work.  Two years of prerequisites, a two year waiting list in which priority is given to those who have a higher GPA.  Not to mention the NCLEX exam which you need to pass.  Going through nursing school was more demanding didactic wise, your scope of practice in nursing is a lot more than a EMT.  The clinicals were hectic also, time management is key in nursing. Redundant paper work is the norm.  The books we had to go through were thick, pharmacology, medsurg, OB, Peds, psych, ect.  Compared to one EMS book, Emergency Care in the streets.  Someone said that EMT's have a higher level of schooling than nurses, I don't think so.  Not even close.  I'm not bashing, just stating what I went through.  It may have been easier for me since I did have prior medical training and over 5 years of nursing experience.  The EMT course I went through wasn't that hard, the only prereq's were A&P and medical terminology.  I'm lucky to have had a great instructor though.  The skills testing was a whole different animal!  Anyways, nursing is a great profession.  The pay is good and your coworkers are a lot better looking.  But I like being able to relax 90% of the time and then be able to help those in need when called.  Better than running around like a chicken without a head as  I did while being a nurse.  EMS is catching up and soon will be a profession equal in status to Nursing.  The ball is rolling where I'm from.  Soon the EMT-P program will be Associates degree.  With all or most of the same prereq's as the nursing program.  It's a start.



So your an RN who decided to go for EMT-P? Was there a challenge exam available?


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## JJR512 (Aug 21, 2011)

If I ever do go into nursing:censored::censored::censored:8212;and it's something I've thought about:censored::censored::censored:8212;8212;it would be to specialize in a particular area. Particularly, pediatrics. More particularly, pediatric critical care. And even more particularly again, most likely in the transportation setting.

So if this same question (the original one of this thread) was asked of me after that point, my answer would be, "Because nursing allowed me to get into a specialty that I care deeply about, as opposed to the generalized field of EMS."

EDIT: I don't know why my post is being auto-censored. What's being censored is a punctuation mark, an em dash. Guess I'll just have to use the clunky double-hyphen in the future.


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## redbull (Aug 21, 2011)

JJR512 said:


> If I ever do go into nursing:censored::censored::censored:8212;and it's something I've thought about:censored::censored::censored:8212;8212;it would be to specialize in a particular area. Particularly, pediatrics. More particularly, pediatric critical care. And even more particularly again, most likely in the transportation setting.
> 
> So if this same question (the original one of this thread) was asked of me after that point, my answer would be, "Because nursing allowed me to get into a specialty that I care deeply about, as opposed to the generalized field of EMS."



Thanks!


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## Hunter (Aug 21, 2011)

I think its simply more job openings in a much bigger variety of places, Nurses can get jobs everywhere, hospitals, nursing homes, retirement homes, rehab, mental facilitys, ect.


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## bstone (Aug 22, 2011)

A paramedic functions similarly to that of a PA. It makes more sense for paramedics to go into PA school than into nursing. PA school is very competitive and the pre-reqs can be difficult and long.

I thought about PA school but then went insane and decided to become a physician instead. I am your future medical director.


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## Sandog (Aug 22, 2011)

bstone said:


> A paramedic functions similarly to that of a PA...



Seriously???


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## bstone (Aug 22, 2011)

Yes, seriously. A paramedic functions similar to a PA in that there is a supervision physician, a delegated scope of practice, quality control and assurance and the paramedic works under the license of the physician (a PA works under the license of their physician). Paramedics in many systems rarely call Medical Control, thus strengthening the medic-PA analogy. 

In what way do you justify "seriously"?


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## JPINFV (Aug 22, 2011)

bstone said:


> Yes, seriously. A paramedic functions similar to a PA in that there is a supervision physician, a delegated scope of practice, quality control and assurance and the paramedic works under the license of the physician (a PA works under the license of their physician). Paramedics in many systems rarely call Medical Control, thus strengthening the medic-PA analogy.
> 
> In what way do you justify "seriously"?



I can say all of those things about RNs too. 

The medical care provided by RNs is going to be done under the supervision of the patient's physician and the unit's medical director. 

RNs are going to be able to perform only the treatments that the unit's medical director and patient's physician allows them to do. 

RNs under go QA.

Neither paramedics nor RNs "work under" the license of the physician. The physician isn't going to be automatically liable (professionally or civilly) if the RN or paramedic screws up. 



A better argument, which you didn't touch on, is the use of professional judgement and independence of medical care. PAs and NPs get to use professional judgement because of their education. RNs get a varying amount based on their education and experience (e.g. clinical nurse specialists) or based on their environment (e.g. home health nurses, school nurses, public health, etc. The out of facility nurses). 

Paramedics, by and large, get to use judgement and independence for little reason more than their environment.


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## bstone (Aug 22, 2011)

> Neither paramedics nor RNs "work under" the license of the physician.



Excuse me? Paramedics most certainly do work under the license of a physician medical director. Without the physician medical director the physician (and PA) would not be allowed to work.

Nurses are much less autonomous than a paramedic. They do not run codes in the absence of a physician. They do not assess and treat in the absence of a physician. They do not practice with great autonomy. A PA is a "mid-level" provider who does all of those things and the review generally comes in the form of about 2% of the charts being randomly reviewed.

For the record, a Nurse Practitioner and PA are essentially the same thing in scope and practice, but very different in history and education.


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## JPINFV (Aug 22, 2011)

bstone said:


> Excuse me? Paramedics most certainly do work under the license of a physician medical director. Without the physician medical director the physician (and PA) would not be allowed to work.



Yet the physician is not liable for any and every (mis)action taken by the paramedic. Of course, using that argument, RNs also "work under" the license of a physician. 





> Nurses are much less autonomous than a paramedic. They do not run codes in the absence of a physician. They do not assess and treat in the absence of a physician. They do not practice with great autonomy. A PA is a "mid-level" provider who does all of those things and the review generally comes in the form of about 2% of the charts being randomly reviewed.


Plenty of nurses do those things. Be it part of home health services or school nurses, or public health departments. Similarly, facilities are going to have a standing orders based on the needs of the facility. Furthermore, this is ignoring situations like rapid response teams that routinely do not have a physician as an immediate responder, where the purpose is to treat and stabilize pre-arrest patients and transfer the patient to the ICU. Oh, and this isn't counting all of the PRN orders that may be present. 

On the other hand, I know EMS systems where any deviation from the protocol is supposed to be ran through online medical control. Hmm, is "independence" really a big deal when the only decisions made on paper is "which protocol do I follow?"


The problem with nursing is that the environments that nurses practice in vary so widely that you cannot paint all of nursing with such a broad brush. Unless, of course, the only thing you know about nurses has to do with picking up or dropping off patients.


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## bstone (Aug 22, 2011)

Enough of the analogies at 4am. Go to sleep! Gnite.


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## JPINFV (Aug 22, 2011)

bstone said:


> Enough of the analogies at 4am. Go to sleep! Gnite.




 Ah, I see your


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## Katy (Sep 12, 2011)

Melclin said:


> I find it vaguely offensive that people might feel that nursing is necessarily ABOVE paramedic practiceB]


Why ? I know this may not be the case in your neck of the woods, but in most places throughout the world RN's are generally held at a higher medical standard and have more education. You have shown us one of the many many different ways things work out there, and sadly it is in the minority. 
As far as the question goes, simply do to the flexibility, expanding education, cheap, decent pay, and probably the most important is the room for expansion. Not much of that in EMS.


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## 18G (Sep 12, 2011)

If I were to go to Nursing school it wouldn't be to work as a Nurse, it would be to build on my education as a Paramedic and use the added credential for more mobility and career advancement. In other words I would still be a street medic... only with a little different perspective and added knowledge.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 12, 2011)

18G said:


> If I were to go to Nursing school it wouldn't be to work as a Nurse, it would be to build on my education as a Paramedic and use the added credential for more mobility and career advancement. In other words I would still be a street medic... only with a little different perspective and added knowledge.


I'm going to nursing school for more mobility, career advancement, and better pay (much more so than I'm getting now). I'm keeping my options open and retaining my Paramedic License in the process. I might just work FT as an RN and PT as a Paramedic for a while and still have days off for good family time.


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## benjack (Sep 15, 2011)

It's easier.


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## Katy (Sep 15, 2011)

benjack said:


> It's easier.


In comparison to what?


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