# Ambulance blocked in dispute over driveway...patient dies



## ffemt8978 (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm at a loss for words on this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-ambulance-car-dispute-shared-driveway.html


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## 281mustang (Apr 1, 2009)

10 minutes? Did she go take a shower before moving the car? Either way manslaughter seems like a more fitting charge if the article is accurate.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow.... just... wow.


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## EMTCop86 (Apr 1, 2009)

I am also at a loss for words.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

281mustang said:


> 10 minutes? Did she go take a shower before moving the car? Either way manslaughter seems like a more fitting charge if the article is accurate.




You would have to prove that the man would not have died had he gotten to the hospital 10 minutes earlier.

In the article, she states she did not know the ambulance was an emergency vehicle. And I've got to wonder why the ambulance was parked infront of her house, and not their patient's house.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 1, 2009)

i'm not quite understanding what medicine they couldn't get; however this is utterly appalling.

maybe they should have called for police to come and arrest her on the scene.

I believe she's now trying to claim she didn't know it was a real ambulance.


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## DavethetrainWreck (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow! what a B***H!? Lock her up and throw away the key. I'm pushing for a life sentence without parole for this one. Let her sit in a cell and think about what she did until she croaks. And let that sentence be an example to any other dirtbag who thinks about pulling the same stunt.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

> Wow! what a B***H!? Lock her up and throw away the key. I'm pushing for a life sentence without parole for this one. Let her sit in a cell and think about what she did until she croaks. And let that sentence be an example to any other dirtbag who thinks about pulling the same stunt.



Uh... a little harsh.

The women parked on HER property, you can hardly fault her for that.

She is told to move, but said she did not recognize the vehicle as an emergency vehicle. 

I'd be more than peeved if I parked in MY parking spot and told to move without an explanation to why.

And do you have evidence that she caused this man's death?


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 1, 2009)

the paramedic repeatedly told her that they needed to get the man to the hospital emergently.  Her neighbor witnessed her sarcasticly yelling at the paramedic _"did anyone die?!"_ and its not like she said it only once.

i'm all for benefit of the doubt, but there were witnesses. Not to mention the emergency workers who experienced her tirade.


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## 8jimi8 (Apr 1, 2009)

and would you ever park BEHIND an ambulance?

would you ever NOT move your car when an a paramedic asked you to?


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## nomofica (Apr 1, 2009)

Angry or not, her actions are unexcused. I say slap some cuffs on her and nail her with a charge of manslaughter.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

> Angry or not, her actions are unexcused. I say slap some cuffs on her and nail her with a charge of manslaughter.



She didn't kill anyone. Even the prosecuting lawyer says that.



> She added: 'There was no suggestion the defendant's action were in anyway a contributory factor in Mr Burdett's death.'


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## medic417 (Apr 1, 2009)

This is why ambulances need solid bumpers front and back.  Ask them to move once, then push them out of the way.


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## reaper (Apr 1, 2009)

Exactly, I ask twice nicely, then take care of it myself.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> And I've got to wonder why the ambulance was parked infront of her house, and not their patient's house.




this was taken from the quote right under the picture in the article.


> Gillian Birdsall's house on the left. The ambulance was parked in the drive to the Burdett's house on the right when she blocked it in


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

amberdt03 said:


> this was taken from the quote right under the picture in the article.



Whoops. It was late, and the names are similar.

I'm interested to know exactly how that worked then. The driveways are long enough that if she pulled up in her driveway then it shouldn't have blocked them. Unless they were parked in such a way that it prevented her from getting into her own drive way.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Whoops. It was late, and the names are similar.
> 
> I'm interested to know exactly how that worked then. The driveways are long enough that if she pulled up in her driveway then it shouldn't have blocked them. Unless they were parked in such a way that it prevented her from getting into her own drive way.



yeah i wonder that too. they could have prevented her from getting in her drive way. it seems its a he said, she said type of situation. either way, once she was informed that she needed to move, she should have.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

amberdt03 said:


> yeah i wonder that too. they could have prevented her from getting in her drive way. it seems its a he said, she said type of situation. either way, once she was informed that she needed to move, she should have.



The whole situation could have been avoided by them parking in the street.

The brief time I worked 911, we parked in the street. A little walking never hurt and no one's blocked in. Ten minutes over the 1 minute to walk down the driveway.


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## flhtci01 (Apr 1, 2009)

Gotta love _'I thought it was one of those ambulances they use to pick people up but did not think it was a real ambulance.'_

Do they pick people up in fake ambulances?

They needed to make an example of this lady and the fine was no where near enough.


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## firecoins (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Uh... a little harsh.
> 
> The women parked on HER property, you can hardly fault her for that.
> 
> ...



If we take the article at its word, the woman is giving the excuse that she did not recognize it as an emergency vehicle.  It does not mean she didn't really recognize it and chose not to move.


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## AJ Hidell (Apr 1, 2009)

It's not like they were in her way at all.  In fact, she had to park way out of her way, fifty yards from her house, just to block the ambulance, instead of just pulling up to her house in her perfectly clear driveway.  That's totally malicious.  I say ban her from driving for the rest of her life, and rescind her healthcare coverage too.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> The whole situation could have been avoided by them parking in the street.
> 
> The brief time I worked 911, we parked in the street. A little walking never hurt. Ten minutes over the 1 minute to walk down the driveway.



yeah i've never seen anyone park in the driveway before, always on the street. but you know how some people are lazy.


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## silver (Apr 1, 2009)

amberdt03 said:


> yeah i've never seen anyone park in the driveway before, always on the street. but you know how some people are lazy.



that still doesnt make what she did any less wrong in the end if the medics were being lazy.

time to get out the push bumpers ^_^


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## amberdt03 (Apr 1, 2009)

silver said:


> that still doesnt make what she did any less wrong in the end if the medics were being lazy.
> 
> time to get out the push bumpers ^_^



i never said what she did was right. yeah she f'd up, would the guy have died regardless, we will never know.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> It's not like they were in her way at all.  In fact, she had to park way out of her way, fifty yards from her house, just to block the ambulance, instead of just pulling up to her house in her perfectly clear driveway.  That's totally malicious.  I say ban her from driving for the rest of her life, and rescind her healthcare coverage too.



unless the ambulance parked in such a way that she couldnt pull into her driveway.    which is totally possible. many people feel that because they drive an ambulance they own the road and do not have to adhere to any laws. which is incorrect.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 1, 2009)

silver said:


> that still doesnt make what she did any less wrong in the end if the medics were being lazy.
> 
> time to get out the push bumpers ^_^



i never said what she did was right. yeah she f'd up, would the guy have died regardless, we will never know, but he probably would have had a better shot if there wasn't a delay


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## reaper (Apr 1, 2009)

amberdt03 said:


> yeah i've never seen anyone park in the driveway before, always on the street. but you know how some people are lazy.



You obviously don't work in areas where the house maybe a 1/8 mile off the street!

I pull in driveways, when ever possible. Makes loading pt easier and safer. Why load a pt in the street with traffic moving, if you can back into a driveway and load them?

Has nothing to do with being lazy. It has to do with thinking ahead and being safe.


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## medic417 (Apr 1, 2009)

reaper said:


> You obviously don't work in areas where the house maybe a 1/8 mile off the street!
> 
> I pull in driveways, when ever possible. Makes loading pt easier and safer. Why load a pt in the street with traffic moving, if you can back into a driveway and load them?
> 
> Has nothing to do with being lazy. It has to do with thinking ahead and being safe.



I agree.  Work smarter not harder.  Even patient privacy can become an issue if you wheel them out into the street.


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## Sasha (Apr 1, 2009)

medic417 said:


> I agree.  Work smarter not harder.  Even patient privacy can become an issue if you wheel them out into the street.



thats not patient privacy. if it was' we,d transport all patients with sheets over their head, incase someone caught a glance as you were loading.


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## nomofica (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> She didn't kill anyone. Even the prosecuting lawyer says that.



Sorry, I didn't see that.

Perhaps there should be a revision made to "misdemeanor obstruction" in the law books to include any and all emergency response vehicles rather than just LEO's with a nice fine attached to that.


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## Buzz (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> thats not patient privacy. if it was' we,d transport all patients with sheets over their head, incase someone caught a glance as you were loading.



I've had patients ask us to quickly get them in the truck and close the doors because everyone on their street was getting nosey and standing out on the porches trying to see what we were doing--not that we weren't already thinking about that. It's not such a concern that we would totally cover a patient (though I did have someone ask for that once--which only made someone yell something along the lines of "Oh my god. Someone died!") but more time outside is more time for people to see the patient.


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## medic417 (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> thats not patient privacy. if it was' we,d transport all patients with sheets over their head, incase someone caught a glance as you were loading.



Any time you have a person exposed to the public for no good reason you are dealing with a privacy issue.  You can save much exposure by backing in and getting patient loaded rather than parading them onto public streets where everyone can legally walk right up to the ambulance to see who is there and what is happening.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 1, 2009)

Sasha said:


> thats not patient privacy. if it was' we,d transport all patients with sheets over their head, incase someone caught a glance as you were loading.



have you been taking someone on a stretcher with a white sheet over their head and have someone walk by and gasp. priceless.


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## emtfarva (Apr 2, 2009)

i don't see why the medics just didn't request pd asap. I would have moved the car with my ambulance. I wouldn't have a job after that, but i would feel better that i did everything possible to save his life.


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## nomofica (Apr 2, 2009)

They probably did call for an LEO.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 2, 2009)

amberdt03 said:


> yeah i've never seen anyone park in the driveway before, always on the street. but you know how some people are lazy.



Great idea for those that live/work in urban areas but not so great for rural areas. 

Some of our driveways around here are a 1/4 to 1/2 mile long...I'm not parking out in the street just so I can walk that far with a patient on a stretcher across sand and gravel.

Laziness may be a factor where you are, but it is by no means the same everywhere.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 2, 2009)

Sasha said:


> unless the ambulance parked in such a way that she couldnt pull into her driveway.    which is totally possible. many people feel that because they drive an ambulance they own the road and do not have to adhere to any laws. which is incorrect.



True, but most areas specifically state emergency vehicles can park where ever they need to do do their job.

Unfortunately, unless we can see a photo of where both vehicles were parked in that driveway, all we can do is speculate.


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## mycrofft (Apr 2, 2009)

*Hmmmm. Engage 4 wheel.*

Goodbye Mr Lawn, Sorry, Mr Cedar/Yew/Larch Tree!


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 2, 2009)

mycrofft said:


> Goodbye Mr Lawn, Sorry, Mr Cedar/Yew/Larch Tree!



LOL...and some people say there is no place for fire in EMS.  Trees in the way?  No problem, let me get the chainsaw.  Vehicle blocking you in?  No problem, big ol' front bumper will take care of that.  Violent/agitated bystanders?  No worries...150 psi straight stream from a deck gun works wonders.


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## Aidey (Apr 2, 2009)

Where I used to work I believe it was a Class A Misdemeanor to interfere with an ambulance/ambulance personnel or to fail to obey their instructions when you are interfering with a emergency scene.


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## nomofica (Apr 2, 2009)

Aidey said:


> Where I used to work I believe it was a Class A Misdemeanor to interfere with an ambulance/ambulance personnel or to fail to obey their instructions when you are interfering with a emergency scene.



As it should be.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 2, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> Great idea for those that live/work in urban areas but not so great for rural areas.
> 
> Some of our driveways around here are a 1/4 to 1/2 mile long...I'm not parking out in the street just so I can walk that far with a patient on a stretcher across sand and gravel.
> 
> Laziness may be a factor where you are, but it is by no means the same everywhere.



yeah i've never worked in a rural area and didn't even think about the long driveway issue.


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## triemal04 (Apr 2, 2009)

Sasha said:


> thats not patient privacy. if it was' we,d transport all patients with sheets over their head, incase someone caught a glance as you were loading.


That's absolutely a pt privacy issue.  It's not common, least where I work, but it's happened to me before that the pt has asked to be covered with a sheet before going outside.  Much more likely if the pt is a public figure.  We don't release personal info to the public, this isn't that much different.  Granted, it's only going to happen if the pt requests it, but parking the ambulance close to the house if possible in a way that will aid egress and loading is a good habit to have.


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## EMTinNEPA (Apr 2, 2009)

Throw her in jail and let her rot.  If at any point she has a medical emergency, make her wait the same amount of time this gentleman had to wait before she gets any help.  Make HER see what it feels like.  Leave in cell without food or light until medical emergency occurs.  If she survives, throw her back in jail as soon as she's stabilized.  Repeat as necessary.


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## Scott33 (Apr 2, 2009)

I don't think anyone really thought she caused the death of the patient. However, I agree the old cow should have been given a fine, as there is little doubt she committed an offense, whether it was on her property or not.

For the nay-sayers - _"The Emergency Workers Obstruction Bill"_ which, fortunately, is law in the UK

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/176/06176.i-i.html


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## Sasha (Apr 2, 2009)

EMTinNEPA said:


> Throw her in jail and let her rot.  If at any point she has a medical emergency, make her wait the same amount of time this gentleman had to wait before she gets any help.  Make HER see what it feels like.  Leave in cell without food or light until medical emergency occurs.  If she survives, throw her back in jail as soon as she's stabilized.  Repeat as necessary.



dude. get psychological help.  she deserves a fine. perhaps a short stay in jail. it was clearly stated in the article that she did not cause his death. sure what she did was heartless but goodness people.


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## Techman006 (Apr 3, 2009)

. . . . . WOW . . . . . I am always more and more amazed at the stupidity of people!


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 3, 2009)

Sasha said:


> And I've got to wonder why the ambulance was parked infront of her house, and not their patient's house.







> .....asked by paramedics to move her car blocking the *shared driveway*.....



This is how that happened.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 4, 2009)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> This is how that happened.



actually they weren't parked in her part of the driveway, as me and sasha have already established. if you go look at the picture in the article, the driveway splits and they were parked in their patients driveway. she must of just pulled in and stopped immediately,blocking the split, instead of pulling forward into her actual driveway.


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## ffemt8978 (Apr 4, 2009)

amberdt03 said:


> actually they weren't parked in her part of the driveway, as me and sasha have already established. if you go look at the picture in the article, the driveway splits and they were parked in their patients driveway. she must of just pulled in and stopped immediately,blocking the split, instead of pulling forward into her actual driveway.



We don't know for sure that is how it happened, because nobody has seen photos of where the vehicles were actually parked.  It's possible it happened that way, but without proof it is just conjecture.


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## amberdt03 (Apr 4, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> We don't know for sure that is how it happened, because nobody has seen photos of where the vehicles were actually parked.  It's possible it happened that way, but without proof it is just conjecture.



i agree, i'm just going off what the article says, which we all know can be completely false.


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## emtfarva (Apr 4, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> LOL...and some people say there is no place for fire in EMS. Trees in the way? No problem, let me get the chainsaw. Vehicle blocking you in? No problem, big ol' front bumper will take care of that. Violent/agitated bystanders? No worries...150 psi straight stream from a deck gun works wonders.


yep, that also works well for LEO in a riot too.


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