# i have a question... Paramedic School Without Street Experience



## jh0n001flip (Apr 16, 2011)

Can you go to medic school without EMT on the job experience for 6 months or so. I know some people saying you can't go to paramedic school if you don't have EMT experience is this true? I have my license and certified to work but no one is giving me a chance yet. I had interviews with some ambulance company but they never called me back for a second interview. So anyways back to my question is it possible going to medic school without EMT on job experience???


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 16, 2011)

jh0n001flip said:


> Can you go to medic school without EMT on the job experience for 6 months or so. I know some people saying you can't go to paramedic school if you don't have EMT experience is this true? I have my license and certified to work but no one is giving me a chance yet. I had interviews with some ambulance company but they never called me back for a second interview. So anyways back to my question is it possible going to medic school without EMT on job experience???



Yes and no. It all depends on the program. Some require you to have usually anywhere between 6 months - 2 years. And others do not require any at all.


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## emt for life (Apr 16, 2011)

The paramedic Course that is put on by the Community closest to me in VA is a Two year program when you have your basic certification or a One year program if you have your Intermediate Certification with the state of VA. Idk about National Exam they may be different. hope this post helps you


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## STXmedic (Apr 16, 2011)

I've never seen one that requires experience, nor do I think it's necessary. However. I see you're from CA, and it seems as though y'all have your own strange rules over there...


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## jh0n001flip (Apr 16, 2011)

firefite said:


> Yes and no. It all depends on the program. Some require you to have usually anywhere between 6 months - 2 years. And others do not require any at all.



I feel like I'm just wasting my time waiting for the opportunity to come. I just wanna go to medic school already and get it over with while I'm still young <_<


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 16, 2011)

jh0n001flip said:


> I feel like I'm just wasting my time waiting for the opportunity to come. I just wanna go to medic school already and get it over with while I'm still young <_<



Yeah. Personally I think that schools should require experience. Its more experience and it let's them get the idea that there is usually no text book case. The zero to hero programs (ones that require no experience) are the programs that normally send out the cook-book medics. That's my opinion tho lol


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## Aprz (Apr 16, 2011)

NCTI encourages experience, but does not require it. They do require Anatomy & Physiology, which you can take their 4-week course, or show proof of taking it at another school. I believe there is one in Roseville and Livermore.

I believe Westmed in San Jose is the same, prefer experience, but does not require it, however, I am not 112% sure.

In my opinion, both are very expensive, and to be honest, I haven't heard good things about them except the occasional "you get what you put into it."

Look into it. Good luck with your search for a job and Paramedic. 

P.S. I think the do you need experience for Paramedic school or not is...

:deadhorse:


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## FreezerStL (Apr 16, 2011)

It would all be dependent on the program you choose.



> I just wanna go to medic school already and get it over with while I'm still young



Careful what you wish for,  I kid I kid.... 

I would recommend, at the very least, taking college level Anatomy and Physiology before enrolling. It will make class easier when you have an understanding of the basics to build upon.   

Good luck^_^


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## DitchDoctorGabe (Apr 16, 2011)

emt for life said:


> The paramedic Course that is put on by the
> Community closest to me in VA is a Two year program when you have your basic certification or a One year program if you have your Intermediate Certification with the state of VA. Idk about National Exam they may be different. hope this post helps you



Glad to hear that there are still some states that require experience before being considered for a medic class. I know there are very few folks who could go all the way through with little to no experience. 

Personally I think that you need to have a couple years under your belt before applying for the program.


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## usalsfyre (Apr 16, 2011)

DitchDoctorGabe said:


> Glad to hear that there are still some states that require experience before being considered for a medic class. I know there are very few folks who could go all the way through with little to no experience.
> 
> Personally I think that you need to have a couple years under your belt before applying for the program.



I would much rather precept someone who's gone straight through with little field time than a wannabe "crusty" EMT two years of bad habits and laziness under their belts.


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## IrightI (Apr 16, 2011)

I wouldnt say street time equals a "crusty" EMT who is set in their ways.  

It boils down to you are able to distinguish between READING about a chest pain pt and actually working on one.  SEEING the actual words that you have read, I think, makes all the difference.  I had four years of EMT "street time". Everything from 911, NICU, Bariatric, to Dispatching.  Im currently in Medic School and the EMTs with no experience are currently sitting at the bottom of the class, for what its worth.  

Im from Southern California and did my EMT time there.  Most schools do not require experience, and that creates 6month programs with "robot medics" vs my year and a half degree program.  They cant think outside the box, instead its just, ASA, NTG, 12-lead and IV for CP.  Its sad, but true.  

Just my two pennies.


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## Akulahawk (Apr 16, 2011)

Is it possible to succeed in a program that turns out medics that have zero experience on entry to the program? Yes. The problem is that during your internship, your preceptor has to teach you basically everything. That's great, if your preceptor is willing to teach the new medic from the first minute of greeting a patient. The internship is too short for that, most of the time.

One reason why I'd want to take a student who has had 6-24 months experience is that they're still relatively new, they've had some patient contact, they have figured out that they like the prehospital arena and they've learned to take vitals in the truck. They haven't gotten too set in their ways that correcting them becomes difficult. They've learned that textbook and the street don't always match up nicely and they've started to learn that they can improvise, adapt, and overcome the problem. They're also not so "old" that they figure that they can handle anything... or that they'd take a pay cut to become a Paramedic (yes, I've met a couple of those).


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## emt seeking first job (Apr 17, 2011)

One school in NYC requires one year of employment with 100 patient contacts. They also require an interview.

I have a hunch that they make admission decesions on a case by case basis. The make an overall assessment as t if the person can complete the coursework.

In the OP's instance, apply to the school you choose and let them tell you.


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## clibb (Apr 17, 2011)

usalsfyre said:


> I would much rather precept someone who's gone straight through with little field time than a wannabe "crusty" EMT two years of bad habits and laziness under their belts.



Haha, really? Most of the medics that I have met that have gone through the crappy programs who will accept you without experience, have been terrible Paramedics. 
There's a reason why most of health care has step programs. I,e: CNA to Nurse. Pre-med to med school. You gotta build up a foundation. Experience is key.


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## Aidey (Apr 17, 2011)

You do not have to be a CNA to be a Nurse. Pre-med has nothing to do with patient care unless you happen to volunteer somewhere or get some sort of healthcare job.


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## usalsfyre (Apr 17, 2011)

clibb said:


> Haha, really? Most of the medics that I have met that have gone through the crappy programs who will accept you without experience, have been terrible Paramedics.
> There's a reason why most of health care has step programs. I,e: CNA to Nurse. Pre-med to med school. You gotta build up a foundation. Experience is key.



First question is, how do you define a "crappy paramedic"?

New paramedics without previous experience are far less likely to let biases built by bad experience influence their decision making. I've seen far more tendency to minimize symptoms/assessment findings from "experienced" EMTs, often times based on social and economic factors. They're also far less likely to treat assessment findings based on personal biases. Finally they're usually the ones spouting stupid crap like "BLS before ALS!" This is of course all anecdotal personal observation.

If there's on particular program turning out poor provider, perhaps it's the programs fault and not lack of "experience" EMS is one of only two health profession that tries to replace supervised clinical practium with unsupervised work experience. No one else makes you go through "steps"


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## Zodiac (Apr 17, 2011)

clibb said:


> Haha, really? Most of the medics that I have met that have gone through the crappy programs who will accept you without experience, have been terrible Paramedics.
> There's a reason why most of health care has step programs. I,e: CNA to Nurse. Pre-med to med school. You gotta build up a foundation. Experience is key.



I don't know of any RN/BSNs who worked for any length of time as a CNA before getting their nursing license.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

firefite said:


> Yeah. Personally I think that schools should require experience. Its more experience and it let's them get the idea that there is usually no text book case. *The zero to hero programs (ones that require no experience) are the programs that normally send out the cook-book medics. That's my opinion tho lol*



Careful there, there's some people that might take offense to that. My program didn't require experience and I'd like to think I'm far from a cook book medic, in my opinion that's a pretty rash statement to make. Just my opinion though.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

fast65 said:


> Careful there, there's some people that might take offense to that. My program didn't require experience and I'd like to think I'm far from a cook book medic, in my opinion that's a pretty rash statement to make. Just my opinion though.



That's a personally statement from what I've seen. It takes people straight off the street and in about a year make them an EMT and then a medic. I have worked with medics where if it wasn't talked about in class then they don't know what to do. Such as a laceration to the buttocks. The medic didn't know or even attempt to bandage it. Not all of the providers that come out of those programs are cook book. Just most that I have seen are. Again that is all personal opinion based on what I have seen.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

firefite said:


> That's a personally statement from what I've seen. It takes people straight off the street and in about a year make them an EMT and then a medic. I have worked with medics where if it wasn't talked about in class then they don't know what to do. Such as a laceration to the buttocks. The medic didn't know or even attempt to bandage it. Not all of the providers that come out of those programs are cook book. Just most that I have seen are. Again that is all personal opinion based on what I have seen.




It seems that you're operating under the assumption that all programs that take people with no experience are those 6 month boot camp style medic mills. There are plenty of schools out there that turn out great medics that came in with no experience as an EMT, it's all about the program, NOT the experience that the student has. 

Now, there's certainly some medics that went in with no experience that came out as cook book medics, but does that mean they'll never be good? Of course not, they just need to learn how to think outside the box, and I know that as a basic I had no idea how to think outside the box, things only started making sense and coming together as I started paramedic school. The medical field is dynamic, and because of that we as healthcare providers never stop learning, and the truth of the matter is that the learning process has only just begun as school has ended. Sure, those who come in with no experience might struggle a little at first, but dedication is infinitely more important than experience in my opinion, and as long as a new paramedic is dedicated to his/her profession, then most of the time they will undoubtedly become a great provider.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

fast65 said:


> It seems that you're operating under the assumption that all programs that take people with no experience are those 6 month boot camp style medic mills. There are plenty of schools out there that turn out great medics that came in with no experience as an EMT, it's all about the program, NOT the experience that the student has.
> 
> Now, there's certainly some medics that went in with no experience that came out as cook book medics, but does that mean they'll never be good? Of course not, they just need to learn how to think outside the box, and I know that as a basic I had no idea how to think outside the box, things only started making sense and coming together as I started paramedic school. The medical field is dynamic, and because of that we as healthcare providers never stop learning, and the truth of the matter is that the learning process has only just begun as school has ended. Sure, those who come in with no experience might struggle a little at first, but dedication is infinitely more important than experience in my opinion, and as long as a new paramedic is dedicated to his/her profession, then most of the time they will undoubtedly become a great provider.



I never said all of them because in fact it's not all. It's just most of the medics that i have worked with who are the cook book come out of that kind of program. There are other medics who didn't come out of those programs that are still cook book. 
Yes they could change in the future. But for me and the patient it doesn't matter if he changes in the future. We are only concerned with right now in time. I don't know alot of stuff but it's not going to help my current patient if I learn them in the future. What matters is right now at this exact time.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

firefite said:


> I never said all of them because in fact it's not all. It's just most of the medics that i have worked with who are the cook book come out of that kind of program. There are other medics who didn't come out of those programs that are still cook book.
> Yes they could change in the future. But for me and the patient it doesn't matter if he changes in the future. *We are only concerned with right now in time. I don't know alot of stuff but it's not going to help my current patient if I learn them in the future. What matters is right now at this exact time.*



So a fresh paramedic should be perfect right out of the gates? Dully noted.


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## Handsome Robb (Apr 17, 2011)

I'm excited to disprove the cookbook medic theory you have going here. I think it depends on the person not the school, or the experience.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

NVRob said:


> I'm excited to disprove the cookbook medic theory you have going here. I think it depends on the person not the school, or the experience.



I agree with you 100%, the person is what makes the difference, not the amount of experience they have.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

fast65 said:


> So a fresh paramedic should be perfect right out of the gates? Dully noted.



No. Think about it from your patients point of view. Let's say for example if I didn't know how to do CPR. Is it going to matter to the patient if I learn how to do CPR later in life? Odviously it's not going to matter because my patient didn't get CPR. In no way is me learning CPR in the future going to help this one patient. But it will help others. (I do know how to do CPR)


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

NVRob said:


> I'm excited to disprove the cookbook medic theory you have going here. I think it depends on the person not the school, or the experience.



Per my view point it depends on the person and the effort they put in.


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## Zodiac (Apr 17, 2011)

One of the best paramedic programs in this state does not require experience to be considered and does not lead up to an associates degree so it's kind of silly to label providers coming from such programs as being any less qualified than those who attended programs that require x months of experience for admission. Competency should be judged on an individual basis.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

Zodiac said:


> One of the best paramedic programs in this state does not require experience to be considered and does not lead up to an associates degree so it's kind of silly to label providers coming from such programs as being any less qualified than those who attended programs that require x months of experience for admission. Competency should be judged on an individual basis.



I never saw a post saying that they are less qualified if they came from xyz school and more qualified if they came from abc school lol


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

firefite said:


> No. Think about it from your patients point of view. Let's say for example if I didn't know how to do CPR. Is it going to matter to the patient if I learn how to do CPR later in life? Odviously it's not going to matter because my patient didn't get CPR. In no way is me learning CPR in the future going to help this one patient. But it will help others. (I do know how to do CPR)



You're making it out to seem like a paramedic with no experience isn't going to know how to do ANYTHING. Even a cookbook medic will be able to at least treat patients, even if they can't think outside of the box. Protocols are written for the lowest common denominator, that being a green medic with zero field experience in this case. I understand what you're saying, but I'm just saying that it's important to understand that no new medic coming right out of school, experience or not, will be perfect; they will make mistakes and they will learn from those mistakes to become a better medic, same goes for seasoned medics.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

firefite said:


> I never saw a post saying that they are less qualified if they came from xyz school and more qualified if they came from abc school lol



I can see how he would interpret that from previous posts in this thread


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

fast65 said:


> You're making it out to seem like a paramedic with no experience isn't going to know how to do ANYTHING. Even a cookbook medic will be able to at least treat patients, even if they can't think outside of the box. Protocols are written for the lowest common denominator, that being a green medic with zero field experience in this case. I understand what you're saying, but I'm just saying that it's important to understand that no new medic coming right out of school, experience or not, will be perfect; they will make mistakes and they will learn from those mistakes to become a better medic, same goes for seasoned medics.



Lol. Yes I agree. No one is perfect and never will be. I was basing everything off of how I have seen it in my area. I have no evidence saying one is better then the other. It's hard if not impossible to have a good disagreement with ones opinions. For example alot of medics think fire medics are bad. That's their opinion from what they have seen. I have known good and bad fire medics. But that doesn't mean that all fire medics are bad.


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## Zcat23 (Apr 17, 2011)

Where Im taking my classes at... They required me to take the A&P course as a pre-rec for my Paramedic course.
And, we also had to have 6 months of experience of SOME sort... This includes Volunteer time, which was what i did to get my 6 months.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

fast65 said:


> I can see how he would interpret that from previous posts in this thread



I know. I was just pointing out how it hasn't actually been said and that I didn't mean for my posts to be understood that way.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

firefite said:


> I know. I was just pointing out how it hasn't actually been said and that I didn't mean for my posts to be understood that way.



I didn't mean to imply that it was only your posts, there were of course others with that tone as well.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 17, 2011)

fast65 said:


> I didn't mean to imply that it was only your posts, there were of course others with that tone as well.



Don't worry about it lol. I didn't mean for my posts to sound like that because I strongly disagree with that.


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## Akulahawk (Apr 17, 2011)

Aidey said:


> You do not have to be a CNA to be a Nurse. Pre-med has nothing to do with patient care unless you happen to volunteer somewhere or get some sort of healthcare job.





Zodiac said:


> I don't know of any RN/BSNs who worked for any length of time as a CNA before getting their nursing license.


I would imagine that they're not put in a classroom environment first and then dropped into a field training environment where they're suddenly faced with a very steep learning curve and a short time-span to learn the basics of being a provider at that level... I would suspect that they're given a certain amount of education and trained gradually with increasing expectation and responsibility throughout the entire program. 

I'd imagine that Physicians are generally brought up in a relatively similar manner. They get some didactic stuff first and are gradually introduced to their responsibilities. 

Heck, even Jedi don't normally just spend a few hours with Yoda and suddenly are deemed worthy... (Luke was the exception) they're supposed to be trained from almost birth and takes what, 15-19 years to become a Jedi Knight? 

If a zero-to-hero Paramedic program was built along the same lines, by the end of the program, the resulting Paramedics could be as "good" as any other graduate from any other good program. 

Of course the downside of any zero-to-hero program is that the students might just find out too late that they really don't like that profession...


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## JPINFV (Apr 17, 2011)

Akulahawk said:


> I would imagine that they're not put in a classroom environment first and then dropped into a field training environment where they're suddenly faced with a very steep learning curve and a short time-span to learn the basics of being a provider at that level...



Wouldn't this indicate that requiring field experience is a band aid on an arterial bleed? Wouldn't repairing the bleed be more important than placing a band aid?


> I'd imagine that Physicians are generally brought up in a relatively similar manner. They get some didactic stuff first and are gradually introduced to their responsibilities.


While in a few months I can comment on the steepness of the learning curve and all, I would note that medical school often goes from full time diadactics to full time clinical experience (clerkships). EMS education is rarely full time in comparison to medical school.


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## fast65 (Apr 17, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Wouldn't this indicate that requiring field experience is a band aid on an arterial bleed? Wouldn't repairing the bleed be more important than placing a band aid?



I don't know, it depends how big the band aid is...


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## Akulahawk (Apr 17, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Wouldn't this indicate that requiring field experience is a band aid on an arterial bleed? Wouldn't repairing the bleed be more important than placing a band aid?
> 
> While in a few months I can comment on the steepness of the learning curve and all, I would note that medical school often goes from full time diadactics to full time clinical experience (clerkships). EMS education is rarely full time in comparison to medical school.


First off, that's exactly what I'm saying. A well-designed zero-to-hero program will turn out good, competent providers that won't need any experience going into the program. 

The comparison to full-time medical school to an EMS program is not the analogy. What I was getting at is that I imagine that you won't be suddenly dropped into a Neurosurgeon residency program and expected to perform safely without having gone through your clerkships and your general surgery residency first. Or am I wrong? I was under the impression that Physicians were brought up in their training with progressively greater and greater responsibility and skills... I was also under the impression that you did get standardized patients (and therefore have some "basic" training) even during your didactic time that should allow you to not be completely clueless in how to do exams during your clerkships? Or was my reading skills deficient?


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## terrible one (Apr 17, 2011)

OP- who cares, judging by your avatar you only want to work in the FD. So just go spend $10k at NCTI and get your p card. Meanwhile go work in the construction industury you will make more money than an ambulance job and learn more applicable skills than some ambulance profession


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## JPINFV (Apr 17, 2011)

terrible one said:


> OP- who cares, judging by your avatar you only want to work in the FD. So just go spend $10k at NCTI and get your p card. Meanwhile go work in the construction industury you will make more money than an ambulance job and learn more applicable skills than some ambulance profession


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## Aidey (Apr 17, 2011)

Akulahawk said:


> I would imagine that they're not put in a classroom environment first and then dropped into a field training environment where they're suddenly faced with a very steep learning curve and a short time-span to learn the basics of being a provider at that level... I would suspect that they're given a certain amount of education and trained gradually with increasing expectation and responsibility throughout the entire program.
> 
> I'd imagine that Physicians are generally brought up in a relatively similar manner. They get some didactic stuff first and are gradually introduced to their responsibilities.
> 
> ...




I've never gone to nursing school or medical school, but I have looked into nursing school. It appears that in many programs the students initially spend a certain amount of time in the classroom and then the patient contact time starts. 

This was pretty much exactly how my medic program was. We spent 6-8 weeks going over the stuff we needed to know in order to function in the hospital, and then built on both from there.


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## Aidey (Apr 17, 2011)

Akulahawk said:


> First off, that's exactly what I'm saying. A well-designed zero-to-hero program will turn out good, competent providers that won't need any experience going into the program.



I was recently poking around the website for my paramedic program, which is university run. When I went through it, it was pretty new and still somewhat disorganized. Looking at it now, it is in much better shape. They appear to have two paths to admission depending on prior experience. 

They have a "Zero to hero" path that involves 2 semesters of pre-reqs prior to the actual paramedic program. First semester you take EMT B along with the general ED stuff, like English and Math. Second semester you finish up the general ED requirements and take A&P. There is a 3 credit "EMT B Internship" class that they state is to specifically prepare new EMTs for entry into the paramedic program. After that is the 3 semester program it self (the 3rd semester is a summer semester). 

Honestly, I don't have a program with that. Overall it is almost identical to the 2 year* ASN program offered. The only difference is that the ASN program is 4 semesters, rather than 3. 


* It is officially called a 2 year program, but it also has the same 2 semesters of pre-reqs, so it is really 3.


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## fast65 (Apr 18, 2011)

JPINFV said:


>



Not gonna lie, I lol'd


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