# 24 hour shifts



## biolife87 (Aug 9, 2010)

hello all. im new here. and tomorrow is my last day of my emt-b class. i have heard a few different things about 24 hour shifts regarding pay. where some say you get paid by the hour/OT and others say you get a certain lump sum for working a 24 hour shift. does it depend on the company or location? maybe some one can help out. thanks!


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## EmtTravis (Aug 9, 2010)

both of the companies I work for I do 24 hr shifts with.  we get paid by the hour.  I have heard of some companies that dont pay you the whole 24 hr shift bc you get time to *sleep* which is not right in my opinion.  so I would have to say it all depends on the company


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## mar7967 (Aug 9, 2010)

biolife87 said:


> hello all. im new here. and tomorrow is my last day of my emt-b class. i have heard a few different things about 24 hour shifts regarding pay. where some say you get paid by the hour/OT and others say you get a certain lump sum for working a 24 hour shift. does it depend on the company or location? maybe some one can help out. thanks!



It depends on company, location, state laws, etc...


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## adamjh3 (Aug 9, 2010)

mar7967 said:


> It depends on company, location, state laws, etc...



Pretty much sums it up. 

At my company we get get paid 14 out of 24 hours. You have two seperate half hour C7's, a dinner hour, and 8 hours of "sleep" time (they give you a ten hour chunk of time once you get back to station). If your sleep time is interrupted you will be paid hourly after the first 2 hours that you work, if you work more than 5 hours during your sleep time the entire 24 gets paid out.


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## mar7967 (Aug 9, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> Pretty much sums it up.
> 
> At my company we get get paid 14 out of 24 hours. You have two seperate half hour C7's, a dinner hour, and 8 hours of "sleep" time (they give you a ten hour chunk of time once you get back to station). If your sleep time is interrupted you will be paid hourly after the first 2 hours that you work, if you work more than 5 hours during your sleep time the entire 24 gets paid out.



Seems like a decent system...I didn't think it was legal for them to NOT pay you, but it sounds like you get compensated fairly. What do you and your co-workers think?


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## biolife87 (Aug 9, 2010)

Ahh I see. Thanks for the quick replies. I thought it was all the same.


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## adamjh3 (Aug 9, 2010)

mar7967 said:


> Seems like a decent system...I didn't think it was legal for them to NOT pay you, but it sounds like you get compensated fairly. What do you and your co-workers think?



I don't mind it, a lot of the people who have been here longer dislike it. 

On one hand, if I'm on the clock, I think I should be getting paid, however, on the other hand, if I'm sleeping, why should I get paid? I have mixed feelings.


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## ClayZB (Aug 9, 2010)

At the private company here you work one 48 hour shift.  You get paid for 40 hours regular pay and 8 hours of overtime pay.  Not too bad.


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## adamjh3 (Aug 9, 2010)

ClayZB said:


> At the private company here you work one 48 hour shift.  You get paid for 40 hours regular pay and 8 hours of overtime pay.  Not too bad.



Ah, with that I should mention, the first 8 hours of our 24 is at straight time, after that is time and a half up to 14 hours, everything past 14 is doubletime. 
However, if you have seperate shifts (example: work 0700-0700 mon-tues then work 0700-1900 tues) you go back to straight time at the start of your second shift.


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## crossatwood (Aug 10, 2010)

Our company works on an hourly rate for 24 hr shifts plus shift differential. the only time we don't do that is for call pay. So we actually get paid more during night time hours that seems to be the standard up here i haven't heard of any companies in my area that pay reduced wage because you get to sleep (in theory) on a 24.


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 10, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> Pretty much sums it up.
> 
> At my company we get get paid 14 out of 24 hours. You have two seperate half hour C7's, a dinner hour, and 8 hours of "sleep" time (they give you a ten hour chunk of time once you get back to station). If your sleep time is interrupted you will be paid hourly after the first 2 hours that you work, if you work more than 5 hours during your sleep time the entire 24 gets paid out.




Do the staff keep their own notes and double check the payroll?


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## emt seeking first job (Aug 10, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> I don't mind it, a lot of the people who have been here longer dislike it.
> 
> On one hand, if I'm on the clock, I think I should be getting paid, however, on the other hand, if I'm sleeping, why should I get paid? I have mixed feelings.




You get paid for being on duty and ready to respond at a moments notice.


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## adamjh3 (Aug 10, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> Do the staff keep their own notes and double check the payroll?



I do. The guy who was my FTO does as well. I think a couple other people might. I've not seen any mistakes yet, though, our times are recorded 2 different ways, we write them down on a time sheet and they're recorded at dispatch. I'm sure they could screw a lot of people if they wanted to, but I haven't seen it yet.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Aug 10, 2010)

They moved a few of the busiest stations here to 12 hour shifts running 24 hours a day because you don't get any time to sleep overnight, and you don't get any significant breaks during the day. They didn't want sleepy providers running calls. Of course those same medics that just ran the 12 are probably signed up for a 24 immediately after at another station, but I digress.


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## fma08 (Aug 10, 2010)

As I understand it, we get paid a base rate, pretty much for being on call for the 24 hours. Then, we get paid a different rate for "productive time" like going on a call, helping in the hospital, etc. That's where the OT distinction comes it. We start getting into OT if we have more than 40 hours of "productive time" in a week. I think that's how it works anyway at our service. It's confusing haha


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## BLSBoy (Aug 10, 2010)

I work 24/48 with a Kelly day every 3 weeks. 
Base rate for 40hrs/wk, OT for anything over 40hrs.


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## 46Young (Aug 10, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> I don't mind it, a lot of the people who have been here longer dislike it.
> 
> On one hand, if I'm on the clock, I think I should be getting paid, however, on the other hand, if I'm sleeping, why should I get paid? I have mixed feelings.



There are a couple of reasons that you should be paid your regular rate for sleeping. First, you're not at home, in your own bed. You must maintain a constant state of readiness, be ready to respond within one-two minutes. Even if you're on call from home when off duty, there should be compensation in the form of a stipend. In either case, you're not free to go about your life, you're being compensated to be available for calls. 

Second, the company saves money by having you work 24 hour shifts. This allows them to cover more shifts/hours with less employees. Think about it. For every five employees on a variation of a 24/48 no kellys (56 hour workweek, on average), you save 80 hours of labor a week, the same as two FT employees. That's a savings of 2 retirement plans, 2 medical plans, sick days x 2, paid time off x 2, equipment, uniforms, increased support/admin staff, insurance, a savings in hiring and training costs, so on and so forth. 

If you're working, you need to be compensated at your full rate for the entire time, not just if you get a call. That reduced "sleep rate" is a load of bull. If you get no calls at night, the company makes out since they're not paying you to be there, even though you're still covering their rig, making it available. If you get a call, you get your full rate only for the time worked. Sounds a little one sided, no?

Why stop at non payment for sleep hours? What about all downtime? I was watching a news artcle from Canada that brought to light this very practice in some rural areas. You had these medics working a massive amount of hours as paid on call from the station, in hopes of going FT. 

If you don't think employers are doing whatever they can to shortchange their employees, google "chinese overtime" and "system status management".

Edit: Bottom line, if you're not at home, in your own bed, you're working. If you're expected to staff a rig for a call, you're working. If you're working, then your full hourly rate applies.


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## 46Young (Aug 10, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> I don't mind it, a lot of the people who have been here longer dislike it.
> 
> On one hand, if I'm on the clock, I think I should be getting paid, however, on the other hand, if I'm sleeping, why should I get paid? I have mixed feelings.



There are a couple of reasons that you should be paid your regular rate for sleeping. First, you're not at home, in your own bed. You must maintain a constant state of readiness, be ready to respond within one-two minutes. Even if you're on call from home when off duty, there should be compensation in the form of a stipend. In either case, you're not free to go about your life, you're being compensated to be available for calls. 

Second, the company saves money by having you work 24 hour shifts. This allows them to cover more shifts/hours with less employees. Think about it. For every five employees on a variation of a 24/48 no kellys (56 hour workweek, on average), you save 80 hours of labor a week, the same as two FT employees. That's a savings of 2 retirement plans, 2 medical plans, sick days x 2, paid time off x 2, equipment, uniforms, increased support/admin staff, insurance, a savings in hiring and training costs, so on and so forth. 

If you're working, you need to be compensated at your full rate for the entire time, not just if you get a call. That reduced "sleep rate" is a load of bull. If you get no calls at night, the company makes out since they're not paying you to be there, even though you're still covering their rig, making it available. If you get a call, you get your full rate only for the time worked. Sounds a little one sided, no?

Why stop at non payment for sleep hours? What about all downtime? I was watching a news artcle from Canada that brought to light this very practice in some rural areas. You had these medics working a massive amount of hours as paid on call from the station, in hopes of going FT. 

If you don't think employers are doing whatever they can to shortchange their employees, google "chinese overtime" and "system status management".


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## Outbac1 (Aug 10, 2010)

46Young said:


> There are a couple of reasons that you should be paid your regular rate for sleeping. First, you're not at home, in your own bed. You must maintain a constant state of readiness, be ready to respond within one-two minutes. Even if you're on call from home when off duty, there should be compensation in the form of a stipend. In either case, you're not free to go about your life, you're being compensated to be available for calls.
> 
> Second, the company saves money by having you work 24 hour shifts. This allows them to cover more shifts/hours with less employees. Think about it. For every five employees on a variation of a 24/48 no kellys (56 hour workweek, on average), you save 80 hours of labor a week, the same as two FT employees. That's a savings of 2 retirement plans, 2 medical plans, sick days x 2, paid time off x 2, equipment, uniforms, increased support/admin staff, insurance, a savings in hiring and training costs, so on and so forth.
> 
> ...



 I agree. If you are working you should be paid your full rate.


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## Archymomma (Aug 11, 2010)

We work 24s. The first 8 is straight pay, the second 8 is pay plus 10%, the third 8 is plus 25%. When I started, if you got a consecutive 4 hrs of sleep in the middle of the night you were paid for only 20 hours. Our Director went to the board (we are attached to the County Hospital) for a full 24 hrs of pay. They agreed so begining back in January we started getting paid for a full 24 hrs. 

As someone else said - can't go home so we should be paid for it.


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## Mike Honcho (Sep 2, 2010)

This is my first post. I've read quite a bit on this site and it's been really helpful. I'm almost done with my EMT-B program and was wondering if anyone knew how the ambulance companies in the Dallas area paid on 24hr shifts. I'd like to start working 24hr shifts so that I can work and go to Paramedic school in February. Thanks


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## EMT11KDL (Sep 2, 2010)

if i remember right, if you work 2-24... you get paid first 40 and the next 8 hrs time and half.. so to figure the pay. you take your hourly rate and times it by 52


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## medicman90 (Sep 2, 2010)

Naah...

If you're on call, you're working.

End of discussion.


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## EMT11KDL (Sep 2, 2010)

medicman90 said:


> Naah...
> 
> If you're on call, you're working.
> 
> End of discussion.



i think he was asking how the pay was... not when you are paid lol


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## medicman90 (Sep 2, 2010)

EMT11KDL said:


> i think he was asking how the pay was... not when you are paid lol




I think it's time for me to go to sleep.

Good night emtlife


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## Shishkabob (Sep 2, 2010)

Mike Honcho said:


> This is my first post. I've read quite a bit on this site and it's been really helpful. I'm almost done with my EMT-B program and was wondering if anyone knew how the ambulance companies in the Dallas area paid on 24hr shifts. I'd like to start working 24hr shifts so that I can work and go to Paramedic school in February. Thanks



Most 24hr shifts at IFT companies are awarded based on seniority... good lucky getting one as a brand new EMT.

However, atleast at AMR, they pay in a way that whether you work 12 or 24, you end up making the same salary in the year.


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## medicman90 (Sep 2, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Most 24hr shifts at IFT companies are awarded based on seniority... good lucky getting one as a brand new EMT.
> 
> However, atleast at AMR, they pay in a way that whether you work 12 or 24, you end up making the same salary in the year.



What is IFT? "IFT ambulance" doesn't google up an answer...


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## Shishkabob (Sep 2, 2010)

Inter-facility Transfer.


Hospital to hospital, ER to nursing home, private home to dialysis, etc etc


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## emt seeking first job (Sep 3, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> I don't mind it, a lot of the people who have been here longer dislike it.
> 
> On one hand, if I'm on the clock, I think I should be getting paid, however, on the other hand, if I'm sleeping, why should I get paid? I have mixed feelings.



That is where people should organize, form a union, have the union should step in and do something.

If you are sleeping in a bunk, ready to respond, it is providing a service to your employer.

Sleeping at home is not the SAME as at a headquarters. When you sleep at home, you have your privacy, you can get up and go out to a dinner, no need to have your stuff laid out ready to roll.

Not to mention the employee needs to review their check and keep notes and compare, and employer could always 'forget' that there was a call one night....

Apparantly it does not violate the current law in some areas. 

I hate the "why should they get paid to sleep excuse ?"....the person is getting paid to be on call to respond.


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## Mike Honcho (Sep 3, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Most 24hr shifts at IFT companies are awarded based on seniority... good lucky getting one as a brand new EMT.
> 
> However, atleast at AMR, they pay in a way that whether you work 12 or 24, you end up making the same salary in the year.



How is much the salary at AMR for a new EMT?


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## Shishkabob (Sep 3, 2010)

$10.55/hr for brand new EMT doing a 12hr shift.


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## Mike Honcho (Sep 3, 2010)

How many 12hr shifts can you work in a week? Is 10.55 pretty standard. Thanks for the help


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## emt seeking first job (Sep 3, 2010)

adamjh3 said:


> I do. The guy who was my FTO does as well. I think a couple other people might. I've not seen any mistakes yet, though, our times are recorded 2 different ways, we write them down on a time sheet and they're recorded at dispatch. I'm sure they could screw a lot of people if they wanted to, but I haven't seen it yet.



I worked awhile at a car service.

Thet paid minimum wage while on duty  + a percent of all trips performed.

They were known to make a few errors, sometimes either way...

Yet they always corrected the errors where they lost on their own....


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## Shishkabob (Sep 3, 2010)

Mike Honcho said:


> How many 12hr shifts can you work in a week? Is 10.55 pretty standard. Thanks for the help



Depends on your shift.  I know some EMTs who work 7 days a week (By choice)


The typical shift on an ALS truck is 24 one week and 60 the next.  My schedule is M/W, and every other F/S/S.


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## Fox800 (Sep 3, 2010)

We don't have EMT's on our units, but we are paid per hour, and any hour beyond 40 is paid at 1.5X.


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## Mike Honcho (Sep 3, 2010)

Like everyone else, I'd like to find a way to make as much money as I can while I'm in Paramedic school. That's why I was hoping that I could get on a 24hr shift somewhere to be able to work on one of the off days from class. 

I'm taking EMT at Methodist and with Careflight being in the hospital working there would make life easier.


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## 46Young (Sep 4, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> That is where people should organize, form a union, have the union should step in and do something.
> 
> If you are sleeping in a bunk, ready to respond, it is providing a service to your employer.



Exactly! The employer gets dedicated coverage for............ free? If you get a call then and only then you get paid? Sounds more than a little one sided to me. If no union, the employees can always vote with their feet. I'm willing to bet that in areas with a large amount of competition for employment, the paid on call thing won't fly. If you're the only game in town, then you can get away with murder.

Edit: Being POC is basically volunteering your time to be ready for a call. If I want to volunteer, I'll do it with the local volunteer rescue squad, not where I'm supposed to be earning a living.


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## 46Young (Sep 4, 2010)

Mike Honcho said:


> Like everyone else, I'd like to find a way to make as much money as I can while I'm in Paramedic school. That's why I was hoping that I could get on a 24hr shift somewhere to be able to work on one of the off days from class.
> 
> I'm taking EMT at Methodist and with Careflight being in the hospital working there would make life easier.



Why don't you try tending bar, or maybe bouncing if you've got the size and skills for it?


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