# Prisoner Paramedics



## HotelCo (Apr 20, 2011)

"The inmates in the prison's fire department are trained paramedics who were not convicted of violent or sexual offenses..."

The short of it: The inmate staffed fire department pulled two people from the water, one of whom later died.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/20/california.inmates.rescue/index.html?hpt=T2


Anyone know of any other prisons that have this? What do you think of it?


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## HotelCo (Apr 20, 2011)

Looking on the internet, it appears they're trained firefighters, and have, in the past, gone outside prison grounds to assist the San Rafael Fire Department. 

They also have a fire truck:

http://www.corrections.com/news/article/13608 (Unrelated story, but they have pictures)


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## Sasha (Apr 20, 2011)

Scary, law breakers being responsible for someone's life!


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## bigbaldguy (Apr 20, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Scary, law breakers being responsible for someone's life!



You've never broken a law  I haven't broken any...........lately


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## JPINFV (Apr 21, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Scary, law breakers being responsible for someone's life!



Yep... they should have left him in the water. 

Oh, and while we're at it, let's disband all of the inmate wild land fire hand crews while we're at it. Florida can pick up the tab, though. After all, I'd hate to have someone in jail for petty theft trying to help cut a fire line and protect homes and lives.


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## Aidey (Apr 21, 2011)

Well, I'm doubtful they are actually paramedics, but I'm going to assume that is just a layperson mistake. 

I hadn't heard of an in house FD before, but I'm honestly not surprised to learn they exist. After all, there are inmate wildland fire crews. Prisons are basically small cities, and the inmates are already responsible for running a number of the day to day functions (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc). Why not have some sort of emergency service? 

At the prison in my area there are civilian medical staff on site 24/7, and they have their own gurney and jump kits and respond to the scene and if at all feasible they move the patient to the infirmary 

Thinking about it though, I've never heard the FD that covers that area called to the prison for so much as an AFA. I will have to ask and see if they have some sort of in house fire related response team. I do remember seeing those built in hose reels that you see in some hotels and such, but I don't know if they are all over, or just in the less secure areas.


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## bstone (Apr 21, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556

Three Felonies a Day. We're all criminals.

I read about the prison FD with great interest. I think it's a great thing.


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## bigbaldguy (Apr 21, 2011)

It's certainly better then having them make paint brushes or auto plates.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 21, 2011)

It saves actual firefighters from risking to go in there. A sheriff friend told me that some if not all correction officers that work in a jail are trained on the SCBAs. Don't know if that's true or not.


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## HotelCo (Apr 21, 2011)

firefite said:


> It saves actual firefighters from risking to go in there. A sheriff friend told me that some if not all correction officers that work in a jail are trained on the SCBAs. Don't know if that's true or not.



They aren't actual firefighters?


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 21, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> They aren't actual firefighters?



I don't know the full extent of the correction officers training. According to my friend "correction officers are training in the SCBA because firefighters will not go inside of the jail when there are prisoners". I can either confirm nor deny what he said.


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## HotelCo (Apr 21, 2011)

firefite said:


> I don't know the full extent of the correction officers training. According to my friend "correction officers are training in the SCBA because firefighters will not go inside of the jail when there are prisoners". I can either confirm nor deny what he said.



I was talking about the prisoners/FFs

You said: "It saves actual firefighters from risking to go in there."


This whole thing has gotten me really curious, I'm going to give the prison a call in the morning, and see if I can get more information on the program.


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 21, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I was talking about the prisoners/FFs
> 
> You said: "It saves actual firefighters from risking to go in there."
> 
> ...



In my opinion I think it's a good idea. In California the state fire agency CalFire uses "Con crews" to cut handlines and do mop up for wildland fires, and they also do alot of cleaning up areas of the city (and paint the fire stations). I highly doubt they are certified firefighters thru the state. But you never know.


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## Sandog (Apr 21, 2011)

firefite said:


> In my opinion I think it's a good idea. In California the state fire agency CalFire uses "Con crews" to cut handlines and do mop up for wildland fires, and they also do alot of cleaning up areas of the city (and paint the fire stations). I highly doubt they are certified firefighters thru the state. But you never know.



Inmate FF's are trained in wildland fire and they hold red cards. It would be foolhardy and cost lives to put untrained personnel on the fireline, prisoner or otherwise.


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## jwk (Apr 21, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Scary, law breakers being responsible for someone's life!



Lee Co, GA has had a prisoner-operated VFD for several decades - they respond to calls outside the correctional institution as well as inside.  Depending on the severity of their original crimes, some are able to put those skills to good use as paid firefighters once they are released.


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## mycrofft (Apr 21, 2011)

*Yeah Sandog*

The key is "untrained" people versus trained inmates. And I "got" Firefite's comment, the risk they are saving non-prison firefighters is not the fire, but the security and inmate situation. If anything, prison or jail officials will strive to avoid putting inmates at risk because of their responsibilities to protect inmates...yeah, sounds wrong and is often muffed, but it's true. (To see a system not dedicated to portecting inates at all, go to any large Third World establishment.)

Remember that, for the vast majority of people entering the incarceration system, there will be a day they get out, and until then, they are living day to day as best as they can. Thousands of man-hours are spent annually by inmates battling wildland fires without serious incidents, either involving firefighting, or security, partly because they are vetted and overseen by security personnel, and partly because these guys don't want to screw things up.


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## Aerin-Sol (Apr 21, 2011)

Sasha said:


> Scary, law breakers being responsible for someone's life!



When people go to prison for smoking drugs the government has decided are bad, "law breaker" loses a lot of stigma, at least to me.


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## HotelCo (Apr 22, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> This whole thing has gotten me really curious, I'm going to give the prison a call in the morning, and see if I can get more information on the program.



The woman who answered the phone seemed hesitant to give much info, and told me to call back on Friday. She's going to check with her supervisor to see what they can say about it. 

I don't understand how information on the Fire Department would breach security... :unsure:


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## JPINFV (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm pretty sure any information about the internal running of the prison is something that they like to keep somewhat under wraps.


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## HotelCo (Apr 22, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> I'm pretty sure any information about the internal running of the prison is something that they like to keep somewhat under wraps.



Oh, yeah. I understand that part. But the Fire Department? How is telling me what level they're actually trained to, if they're licensed, and what their scope of practice is going to help someone aid in an escape?


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## Sandog (Apr 22, 2011)

As I previously stated, the inmate crews are red carded and have the same training as their civilian counterparts. Here in Ca, the inmates attend a training camp held by Cal Fire, they get S130 and S190 certs.


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## HotelCo (Apr 22, 2011)

Sandog said:


> As I previously stated, the inmate crews are red carded and have the same training as their civilian counterparts. Here in Ca, the inmates attend a training camp held by Cal Fire, they get S130 and S190 certs.



I'm interested in their medical training, not their fire training.


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## Aidey (Apr 22, 2011)

Likely they have little or none considering that 1. It is CA, 2. They probably can't obtain anything beyond CPR/First aid due to their criminal records.


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## Sandog (Apr 22, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> I'm interested in their medical training, not their fire training.



Wildland firefighters are not required to have medical training.


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## HotelCo (Apr 22, 2011)

Aidey said:


> Likely they have little or none considering that 1. It is CA, 2. They probably can't obtain anything beyond CPR/First aid due to their criminal records.



I'm guessing they have little training as well. Perhaps, at MOST, they're EMT-Bs.



Sandog said:


> Wildland firefighters are not required to have medical training.



If you had read the article (or even my original post), you'd see that the article stated: 



> The inmates in the prison's fire department are trained paramedics who were not convicted of violent or sexual offenses...



They obviously have some sort of medical training.


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## Aidey (Apr 22, 2011)

No, the article was obviously written by someone who has no idea what the differences between first aid, EMT, and paramedic are. 

Sorry, but I've seen one incident described as have paramedics, EMTs and ambulance drivers on scene by different news agencies. Every so often they also say things like "the fire department ambulance transported the victims to the hospital", which is funny because there are no fire department ambulances around here.


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## HotelCo (Apr 22, 2011)

Aidey said:


> No, the article was obviously written by someone who has no idea what the differences between first aid, EMT, and paramedic are.



I agree. Which is why I'm curious as to what their level of training actually is.


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## Medic2409 (Apr 22, 2011)

Hmmm...sounds pretty cool.

IMHO...put prisoners to work, doing something useful.


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## Jon (Apr 22, 2011)

Not only does it put prisoners to work, it provides them with the potential to have job skills and a career option when they get out.


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## emt seeking first job (Apr 25, 2011)

About 15 years ago there was a prison based EMT service which ran an ambulance. According to the news article, that service responded to the warden's mother's home.

Corrections has always been a balance of punishment and rehabilitation. Where the balance is changes. Up until the 70s they use to offer some people military service or prison. Now you can not enlist with any convition. I assume 15 years ago, there were not enough people willing to go into EMS. No with so many people not in prison with EMT cards and no jobs it is unlikely they will lower the background requirements.


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## emt seeking first job (Apr 25, 2011)

Jon said:


> Not only does it put prisoners to work, it provides them with the potential to have job skills and a career option when they get out.



Personally I would not be opposed to this.

If you think about it, an ex-con EMT has more to lose than any other EMT. They would watch their ps and qs.  The reality is EMTs steal and assault people all the time. Those people had no background issues.


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## emt seeking first job (Apr 25, 2011)

*members of the FD also train dogs, according to this article*

http://www.corrections.com/articles/13608-san-quentin-gets-canine-friendly


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