# Head shaker



## cruiseforever (Aug 8, 2017)

> FORT WALTON BEACH, Fla. — Two former Okaloosa County paramedics soon could go to jail because of their so-called "selfie war" that began in September 2015 and continued into the following spring.
> 
> Kayla Renee Dubois, 25, of Navarre, will be sentenced Aug. 14 and Christopher Robert Wimmer, 34, of Crestview, will be sentenced Sept. 19 by Circuit Judge William Stone.
> 
> Authorities say the defendants used their personal cellphones to photograph or videotape themselves with 41 people who were intubated, sedated or otherwise unconscious while being treated on the scene or in an ambulance.



https://www.ems1.com/ems-management...-to-be-recommended-for-selfie-war-paramedics/


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## elshion (Aug 8, 2017)

"Bishop said state officials continue to investigate whether to revoke Dubois' and Wimmers' licenses to provide EMS services."

Yes, revoke their damn licenses. Their actions are a crystal clear breach of the trust the public and our patients give us. If it was a single incident, where they exchanged selfies once, then maybe just suspend their licenses pending them meeting substantial criteria. However, this was a repetitive behavior, that transcends common sense.


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## E tank (Aug 8, 2017)

Well, if nothing else, they lack the intellectual capacity for EMS... lead paint in childhood homes?


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## SandpitMedic (Aug 8, 2017)

Morons.


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## DrParasite (Aug 9, 2017)

Seriously, they are considering jail time for these two idiots?  5 years?  C'mon, it was a stupid selfie!!!!

Yank their certs, get them out of this industry, maybe even give the a strong fine..... but jail is definitely an overreaction.


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 9, 2017)

DrParasite said:


> Seriously, they are considering jail time for these two idiots?  5 years?  C'mon, it was a stupid selfie!!!!
> 
> Yank their certs, get them out of this industry, maybe even give the a strong fine..... but jail is definitely an overreaction.


I agree. Highly distasteful and unprofessional, but prison time?


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## ThadeusJ (Aug 9, 2017)

Sorry, but unless any of them were of this quality, then they're rank amateurs anyway (sorry its not an original but its an oldie and a goodie)


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## akflightmedic (Aug 10, 2017)

Was it "just a selfie" or was it FORTY ONE known selfies? And were they "just" selfies or was there much more in the picture? More rude/crude behavior which has not been disclosed outside of a very small circle?

41 people were assaulted, several after death or while dying and some were drunk, high, or intubated due to other reasons. So is it "just a selfie"? These are the 41 which were known. 

The community is outraged as we all should be. Would a slap on the wrist be sufficient or would penalty as severe as allowable more appropriate to demonstrate this absolutely will never be tolerated and if it occurs you see what will happen...you know in this generation where everyone carries a phone and seems to snap a pic or stream anything and everything. 

FYI...the county now bans ALL personal devices while on duty. There is an official cell phone on the truck if needed, anyone with personal device is gone.


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## SandpitMedic (Aug 10, 2017)

No one can have a cell phone on duty?! Lol. 
Typical knee-jerk reaction. Punish all for the actions of a few.


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## SandpitMedic (Aug 10, 2017)

I don't think prison is the answer either. 
Convictions with fines and losing your ability to work in healthcare (or public service) ever again should suffice. They've already ruined their lives and jeopardized their futures. 

Prison will do nothing to "rehabilitate" them and will only serve to create two more folks dependent on the system and taxpayers for several years to come.


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## DrParasite (Aug 10, 2017)

akflightmedic said:


> Was it "just a selfie" or was it FORTY ONE known selfies? And were they "just" selfies or was there much more in the picture? More rude/crude behavior which has not been disclosed outside of a very small circle?


there was more?  so your basing your opinion on facts that were not in evidence?  If you know more to the story, why not tell the judge so the prosecutor can present it as evidence? Bottom line, with the facts presented in the article, I am standing by my "it was just a selfie" statement, but I will change it (just for you) to it was just 41 selfies!!


akflightmedic said:


> 41 people were assaulted, several after death or while dying and some were drunk, high, or intubated due to other reasons. So is it "just a selfie"? These are the 41 which were known.


They weren't assaulted (well one was charged with battery, for holding an eye open), or else they would have been convicted of assault.  And even if they did assault the 41 victims, that isn't what they are pleading guilty to.  From the article:





> Dubois recently pleaded no contest to two misdemeanor counts of interception and disclosure of oral communications. Wimmer pleaded no contest to seven felony counts of interception and disclosure of oral communications and one misdemeanor count of battery. The battery charge stemmed from a Feb. 22, 2016, incident in which he allegedly held open the eyelids of a sedated 26-year-old woman for a selfie.


I see no mention of assault anywhere.  Again, if you know more to the story, that's great, but they weren't convicted of whatever you said they do.


akflightmedic said:


> The community is outraged as we all should be. Would a slap on the wrist be sufficient or would penalty as severe as allowable more appropriate to demonstrate this absolutely will never be tolerated and if it occurs you see what will happen...you know in this generation where everyone carries a phone and seems to snap a pic or stream anything and everything.


Cut down on your moral indignation.  There is no reason for you to get all defensive unless your family member was one of the victims.  Calm down.

The community is outraged (as they should be).  The two former employees should be fired (as they should be). They should never be allowed to work on an ambulance, be in EMS, or anywhere near public safety (as they should be).  Their careers are done (as they should be), and they will need to move because no one in the community will ever hire them.

What does throwing them in jail do? Other than pander to the moral outrage of the community?  Just because the community is outraged doesn't mean these two need to be thrown in jail.  I'm sure if you asked the community, hanging these two at noon would be an appropriate punishment.  Prison won't help these two idiots, and really serves no purpose other than to satisfy the communities desire for retribution.  

Fine them, ban then from the profession, and send them on their way

Although I wouldn't be opposed to 40 lashed carried out in the center of town.....


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## akflightmedic (Aug 10, 2017)

It says prison is recommended....as in they have to suggest it and then plead it down. To suggest anything less is an injustice

Yes there is way more to the story. I have a personal connection there.

If you do not think having your private and for some (worst and final moments) "selified" for a medical professional's pure game satisfaction is not worthy of a severe recommendation of punishment, then I am not sure what else to say.


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## SandpitMedic (Aug 10, 2017)

I think it should be very severe. I just don't see prison being severe. Hit them financially with fines and some sort of restitution. So they have to pay, not the tax payers.


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## akflightmedic (Aug 11, 2017)

They are paramedics....they were already on the welfare system most likely....


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## NysEms2117 (Aug 11, 2017)

SandpitMedic said:


> I think it should be very severe. I just don't see prison being severe. Hit them financially with fines and some sort of restitution. So they have to pay, not the tax payers.


how does one pay back embarrassment? how do you pay back the knowledge of knowing the people you trusted in your "moment of need" sedated you, then took a picture of you while sedated? Do i get to hit them over the head and take a picture with their body and post it all over the internet? I agree with having them pay, but there are other ways, like making them pay for their own punishments... Also sometimes prison is necessary.  Restitution is a very hard topic to get down, because most people that commit crimes can't pay for what they did...


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## Bruce Gormley (Aug 11, 2017)

Crazy


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 11, 2017)

NysEms2117 said:


> how does one pay back embarrassment? how do you pay back the knowledge of knowing the people you trusted in your "moment of need" sedated you, then took a picture of you while sedated? Do i get to hit them over the head and take a picture with their body and post it all over the internet? I agree with having them pay, but there are other ways, like making them pay for their own punishments... Also sometimes prison is necessary.  Restitution is a very hard topic to get down, because most people that commit crimes can't pay for what they did...


When your favorite tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


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## akflightmedic (Aug 11, 2017)

So prison recommendation is their favorite "tool"? Maybe the craftsman decided this was the best tool for this specific nail after spending years of studying various nails, hammers, and how best to use each with a specific job...?

Metaphor speech...so much fun.


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 11, 2017)

akflightmedic said:


> So prison recommendation is their favorite "tool"? Maybe the craftsman decided this was the best tool for this specific nail after spending years of studying various nails, hammers, and how best to use each with a specific job...?


Or maybe we just live in a society where we have a higher percentage of non-violent offenders in prison than Iran, N. Korea, and several other countries that we generally think of as far less free than our own. And where even though we are many TRILLIONS of dollars in debt, AND even though convicts who served time have much higher recidivism rates than similar convicts who weren't sentenced to prison, we still subscribe to the wholly disproved notion that it is the most appropriate way of dealing with pretty much anyone who breaks pretty much any law.

Read about "overcharging". There is a (unjust) reason why fewer than 10% of criminal cases go to trial.


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## NysEms2117 (Aug 11, 2017)

Thus why alternatives to incarceration were born! such as SHOCK incarceration. or Parole/probation. But i don't know much about that or anything


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## SandpitMedic (Sep 4, 2017)

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/20170815/former-selfie-war-emt-sentenced-to-probation

Probation for one of them.


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## DrParasite (Sep 20, 2017)

6 month sentence for the other one

https://www.ems1.com/arrests/articles/324262048--Selfie-War-paramedic-sentenced-to-6-months-in-jail/

Christopher Wimmer, the former Okaloosa County EMS paramedic prosecuted for taking "selfies" with incapacitated victims in ambulances, was sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and three years probation in an Okaloosa County Courthouse.

Wimmer, 35, was also ordered to perform 100 hours of community service, pay court costs and was prohibited from practicing as an EMS paramedic throughout the duration of his sentence. The sentence was recommended by Assistant State Attorney Clifton Drake and handed down by Okaloosa County Circuit Judge William Stone.


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## Tigger (Sep 25, 2017)

akflightmedic said:


> FYI...the county now bans ALL personal devices while on duty. There is an official cell phone on the truck if needed, anyone with personal device is gone.


What an inane policy. Downtime must suck.


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