# Students and other EMT`s on Ride Alongs?



## Zalan (Feb 21, 2011)

I have a question on the topic of ride alongs. What does the service you work for allow EMT-B students to do? Or what do they let ride along EMT-B`s do (not currently employeed with your service)? Do you mind if they ask patients questions? Vitals? Assessment?


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## reaper (Feb 21, 2011)

If they are students, they can do what ever they feel comfortable with, within their SOP. If it is an EMT just riding along, then they sit and watch. They are only a civilian observer. They would not be covered by liability insurance for pt care.


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## johnrsemt (Feb 21, 2011)

We used to have an Explorer Post that rode with us;  even though they were technically a civilian, we would let them do VS, and even had a couple bag patients, and do chest compressions:  all while be observed by EMS providors that were FTO type.  It is a good way for them to learn; especially to learn if they actually liked EMS.

  With VS I would do the first set,  and about every 3-5 set,  and if the Explorer was getting close to what I was getting; great.  If not, I would work with them to find out why.   couple of times it wasn't them, it was ME.

   If the patient was C&A, I would always tell them that the Explorer was an Explorer and that they were learning.

   Most of them did a great job,  had some that were better at VS than some basics I worked with,  and a few medics.


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## lampnyter (Feb 21, 2011)

I started as a EMT at 16 and rode as a third untill i was 18. I did everything an EMT could do. I bagged/other oxygen, took all vitals, did CPR, set up 12-leads.


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## fireemsmike (Feb 24, 2011)

The ride along is the responsibility of the AIC on a call. Ride-alongs are often just going to grab vital, grab SAMPLE and act as basically a 3rd w/o a EMT card. This all depends on where you are, however. Some companies will allow ride-alongs more PT care. If I'm on the truck I let a ride-along do any thing noninvasive. Im not going to let a guy/girl get glucose for me or shock a PT. Most companies I've see around this area, D.C, follow a SOP similar to this. Pirmairly a ride along is a red hat learning the ropes of what to do, how to load a PT properly, using a cot, using a KED, setting up a line, and getting vitals. This being said some might just want to focus on the simple things which is totally fine. Ultimately a ride along should be going at his or her own pace, and it is our job to help get them ready for state test/ NR test.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2011)

How to "properly load a cot" should be one of the least things a student does during their ride outs.


Ride outs are meant for patient care and getting used to interacting with patients, not doing the crews lifting.


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## reaper (Feb 24, 2011)

Linuss said:


> How to "properly load a cot" should be one of the least things a student does during their ride outs.
> 
> 
> Ride outs are meant for patient care and getting used to interacting with patients, not doing the crews lifting.



That is a major part of it. They are not there just to do Pt care. They are there to learn how to do the job properly. All parts of the job!


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2011)

Part of it, yes... but not a very big part of it.  


Especially considering many places wont let students handle the cots when a patient is on it.


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## feldy (Feb 24, 2011)

Linuss said:


> How to "properly load a cot" should be one of the least things a student does during their ride outs.
> 
> 
> Ride outs are meant for patient care and getting used to interacting with patients, not doing the crews lifting.



That was the first thing i was taught since that is part of pt care. And how to lift properly. While some places do not allow students to lift the cot with a pt on it for liability purposes, the place i work now has many 3rd riders that do not know how to lift the cot and personally, i see it as that is the first thing the 3rd rider/student should do at every call, it shows that they are willing to help out and get involved on the call instead of sitting back.


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## lampnyter (Feb 24, 2011)

The only thing i never did was carry pts down stairs on backboard or stair chair.


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## JPINFV (Feb 24, 2011)

Linuss said:


> How to "properly load a cot" should be one of the least things a student does during their ride outs.
> 
> 
> Ride outs are meant for patient care and getting used to interacting with patients, not doing the crews lifting.



I've always treated my ride alongs as an EMT on the first day of field training.

Quick question, how long does it honestly take to learn how to load a cot?


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## adamjh3 (Feb 24, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> I've always treated my ride alongs as an EMT on the first day of field training.
> 
> Quick question, how long does it honestly take to learn how to load a cot?



I think this really depends on if it's field training or a .civ. 

When I was doing my rides with one of the local 911 services they had one man loading cots, and I learned how to use those, though never with a Pt on it. 

When I got to the company I currently work for, the cots are completely different, and if there was a person on it the first time I tried to load it they probably would have been dropped h34r:


That being said, to the OP, the only 3rds I've ever had on my rig were newbies in their field training time, they did basically everything except drive. Me and my partner were there to drive, answer questions, and make sure they didn't hurt anyone.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2011)

JPINFV said:


> Quick question, how long does it honestly take to learn how to load a cot?



Apparently way too long.

I understand if you're switching from a Stryker to a Ferno as they have slightly different ways... but if that's one of the only things you're (generic) allowing students to learn, then they need a different preceptor.  




lampnyter said:


> The only thing i never did was carry pts down stairs on backboard or stair chair.



I still don't, that's what first responders are for


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## JPINFV (Feb 24, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Apparently way too long.
> 
> I understand if you're switching from a Stryker to a Ferno as they have slightly different ways... but if that's one of the only things you're (generic) allowing students to learn, then they need a different preceptor.



Using the manual stretchers (I've never used the electric ones) Stryker to Ferno should take less than a minute to learn as they are laid out functionally the same. Both have a side handle on the right side. Both have a top and bottom handle at the feet. The biggest difference I can think of is Ferno gurney arm rails go laterally when put down while Strikers collapse straight down. 

Learning to manipulate a gurney is purely psychomotor. It should honestly take less than 10 minutes to learn to load and remove a stretcher from an ambulance. Expert? No. Functional? Yes.


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## JPINFV (Feb 24, 2011)

adamjh3 said:


> I think this really depends on if it's field training or a .civ.



I guess I should clarify that I'm talking about EMT students. Sorry about that.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 24, 2011)

Meh, I had trouble the first time I tried raising the legs of a Ferno since all I used up to that point was a Stryker.


However, we have the Stryker power cots at my new agency, so I'm just lazy now.  I can lift 400lb people with one finger!  Score!


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## Travis7454 (Feb 24, 2011)

*EMS Slacking..*

So when EMT's and Paramedics leave thier equipment in the ambulance and always ask first responders to get thier equipment when they need it...isnt that considered slacking and not doing your job...?:excl:


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## JPINFV (Feb 24, 2011)

Depends on the piece of the equipment.


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## Travis7454 (Feb 24, 2011)

cot back boards things like that...


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## dixie_flatline (Feb 24, 2011)

To my knowledge, we no longer do ridealongs after a civilian came to do a ridealong on the engine and had his buddies call in a fake fire so they could see him ride up on the BRT (and then greeted him vociferously).

That said, when we have students that need to get calls in for class, they are essentially third providers, up to the discretion of whomever is in the seat.  Some EMTs/Ps would let a student do everything and anything with a stable pt, including writing up the MIR/PCR (not that you heard it from me).  Some prefer students to just do basic assessments and VS.

As for cots, I was definitely confounded when I started riding.  I took my class in another jurisdiction, which used nice Stryker stretchers, and got accustomed to using them.  The layout for our Ferno stretchers is very similar, but to raise/lower the wheels, for example, you don't pull the handle up, you pull it to the left.  In addition, unlocking it to remove it from the bus, you push in, rather than moving the arm to the left like I did with the Strykers.  It's these little things that can ruin a student's entire day when they think they know how to do something and then sit there fighting with the stretcher.


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## JPINFV (Feb 24, 2011)

dixie_flatline said:


> The layout for our Ferno stretchers is very similar, but to raise/lower the wheels, for example, you don't pull the handle up, you pull it to the left.  In addition, unlocking it to remove it from the bus, you push in, rather than moving the arm to the left like I did with the Strykers.  It's these little things that can ruin a student's entire day when they think they know how to do something and then sit there fighting with the stretcher.


I guess it greatly depends on the model used. The Strykers at my old companies had undercarriage releases that were pulled to the side (squeezed) and ambulance mounts that were released by pushing on the bar, not lifting.


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## lampnyter (Feb 24, 2011)

A couple of our trucks had the power strykers and some had the old fernos.


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## AlphaButch (Feb 24, 2011)

When I was a student;

One service would let me do everything (- the written report) within the scope I was training for once the team I was with was comfortable (normally after the 1st or 2nd call). 

Another service would let me do everything (- the written report) but load/unload into the ambulance (onto the cot sure, but not the ambulance).

After a few calls, I was expected to run the call and treat it as my own (- the written report). These services treated student ridealongs similiar to their own employees going through FTR training and had good FTOs.

Neither service does civilian ridealong due to liability (students had insurance through their school).


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## Anjel (Feb 24, 2011)

My school worked with the two ambulance companies in our county. One let me do whatever I wanted and told me I could try to start ivs they wouldn't tell. Lol (I passed on that) 

The other I could take as much control as I wanted except I couldn't load and unload a patient on the stretcher. I think they had a student dump a patient or something. But I enjoyed both. And just applied to both.


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## Tigger (Feb 25, 2011)

I really wished that patient lifting and handling were a part of my clinicals. I especially wished it was allowed when I was paired with a double female crew and took some flak from some FireMedics for being "lazy" and not helping my crew lift.

I've also been working for a non-transport service for a year now, so I still have no experience in using a cot at all, I wonder how that will play out when I apply to some privates for the summer.


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## MEDIC802 (Feb 25, 2011)

Lifting and moving PT's should be a part of the clinical experience, one of the first things I do with new students is to go over the ambulance and practice loading and unloading the stretcher. I generally expect medic students to have some knowledge ot stretcher operations, but Basic students we will start with all the bascis of lifting, moving PT's and stretcher operations, it's all part of the job.


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## AustinNative (Feb 27, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Part of it, yes... but not a very big part of it.
> 
> 
> Especially considering many places wont let students handle the cots when a patient is on it.


We are not allowed to even touch a loaded stretcher.  I am not sure about scoops or backboards, but I will check. We are allowed to do Vital signs, tractions splinting, basic airway management, spinal motion restriction, Albuterol assist, CPR, bandaging/spinting, glucometry, ASA/NTG assist, and EPI Pens.  At the Paramedics discretion, of course.


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## DFW333 (Feb 27, 2011)

I always had my riders do written PCRs. And I did one to. Why not? It's just one more form. Write "EMT Student" across the top of his, clip em together and turn them both in. Then they take their pink copy for proof of the patient contact required by the school.

As for services that dont allow students to load cots because they had a patient dropped by a student once, what do they do when one of their EMTs drops a patient? I can see that now: "Im sorry ma'am, we have to wait for XVille ambulance to get here to load your husband into the ambulance for us, we're not allowed to do that any more."


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## Madmedic780 (Feb 27, 2011)

I'm really used to it we have civilian, EMT students, Paramedic interns, and new volunteer EMT's all the time. It's almost to the point where we expect there to be a 3rd on all of our rigs at any given time. 

For students in particular, with frequent fliers or non-emergent patients I will let them take lead on scene and in the back with the patient. Also with students I make it a point to pressure them into making at least one call report to the hospital during their shift.


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## clibb (Feb 28, 2011)

AustinNative said:


> We are not allowed to even touch a loaded stretcher.  I am not sure about scoops or backboards, but I will check. We are allowed to do Vital signs, tractions splinting, basic airway management, spinal motion restriction, Albuterol assist, CPR, bandaging/spinting, glucometry, ASA/NTG assist, and EPI Pens.  At the Paramedics discretion, of course.



Glucometry without an IV-certification? Is that on Paramedic orders?


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## HotelCo (Feb 28, 2011)

clibb said:


> Glucometry without an IV-certification? Is that on Paramedic orders?



Using a glucometer is a basic skill here in Michigan. What state are you in, that it's required to have an IV Certification to use a glucometer in the field? California?


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## Anjel (Feb 28, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Using a glucometer is a basic skill here in Michigan. What state are you in, that it's required to have an IV Certification to use a glucometer in the field? California?



I had a medic tell me I couldn't use the glucometer when I asked for it for a patient we were working on. I asked why? And he said because he didn't remember learning it as a basic. 

But yea Michigan's basics can do it. Contrary to some people's memory.


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## AtlantaEMT (Feb 28, 2011)

On my first ride along my medic took me out and showed me how to load a stretcher back into the ambulance by myself.  He told me that I have learned 90% of what I need to know.  He would have me stay with the patient until it was time to leave.  And becuase of that I was able to see a lot of cool stuff.  We had a full arrest and it was a cool experience to be in the trauma bay as the doctor worked.  Earlier that night my medic told me to check out the other room becuase there was a chest crack going on.

I had another medic...Paragod that would make me go out and clean the cot and load it up once we transferred the patient to the hospital bed.  I learned very little from her, other than... well I learned what adenocard was becuase she always talked about the cool stuff she knew.

When I have a 3rd rider, I always get the cot and clean it up and let the student stay with the patient.  I also try and keep the third rider talking so they aren't just staring out hte back of an ambulance.  Basically I try and use the tactics of my favorite medics from when i was in school.


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## AtlantaEMT (Feb 28, 2011)

Silverman780 said:


> Also with students I make it a point to pressure them into making at least one call report to the hospital during their shift.



THat was the most nerve racking thing I ever did.  Luckily the medic I was with was a funny guy.  I said to him "I don't want to sound stupid if I call in and say something wrong".  He said to me "You'll be talking to a nurse.  THey already think your stupid so don't worry.  The worst you can do is impress them".  Unfortunately for that call I didn't know what ETOH was and said the patient had alcohol on his breath.


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## Jon (Feb 28, 2011)

When our Training Institute EMT Students ride with us on their required shifts, they can do anything they are comfortable doing, under supervision of crew chief.

When our members who are EMT Students or non-primary EMT's ride with us, they can preform whatever skills they are trained and comfortable doing, under the direct supervision of a crew chief.

When we have non-member, non-student riders, they GENERALLY don't do anything other than observe... But there are exceptions to every rule.


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## the_negro_puppy (Mar 1, 2011)

Anjel1030 said:


> I had a medic tell me I couldn't use the glucometer when I asked for it for a patient we were working on. I asked why? And he said because he didn't remember learning it as a basic.
> 
> But yea Michigan's basics can do it. Contrary to some people's memory.



lol are you serious> the medic told you not to take his BSL/BGL


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## TransportJockey (Mar 1, 2011)

clibb said:


> Glucometry without an IV-certification? Is that on Paramedic orders?



EMT-Bs here in TX and back in NM can both take CBGs without an extra certification. CO is a very odd state due to the EMT-B IV farce they have.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 1, 2011)

HotelCo said:


> Using a glucometer is a basic skill here in Michigan. What state are you in, that it's required to have an IV Certification to use a glucometer in the field? California?



He's in CO. CO has EMT-Bs (which can do almost nothing) and they can take an EKG or IV certification course (or both). The IV cert lets them initiate IVs, push NS/LR, D50, Narcan, take CBG, and a few other things. 
I laughed when I first moved there and found out what I could do as an EMT-B IV cause it was a narrower scope for the most part than I had as a NM EMT-B. But since CO uses I/99, I was stuck at being just a B-IV while I was tehre.


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## TransportJockey (Mar 1, 2011)

And sorry for the triple post, but here's back OT as to what the OP asked. I have had students on my bus a time or two, and after they demonstrate they know what they're doing, I will allow them to work to the full scope of the level they're training for. But, and I've done this, if they keep screwing up, will not listen to advice, don't know their stuff, or just generally act like a retard, I'll make them sit in the corner and only let them watch.


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## lilchic (Apr 13, 2011)

*ride alongs*

Thanks all that info is helpful..I was a nurse's aide for a couple of years and have my EMT-B license but never got a job. I need to re learn my skills and it seems that would help me get my confidence back and give me some experience. I am also going to try and and volunteer at the hospital? I have 2 days off a week..I figure I could do one shift at both places??


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## DillR (Apr 13, 2011)

My company lets me do anything non invasive (no intubating, IV's, drugs)

Other than that I can do just about anything. I am the exception to the ride alongs in that I can carry pts on the cot and do extractions due to that I have worked at the PD, have taken courses there, and already had my own turnout gear.


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## wadford (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm doing my ride alongs now, so far I've done two - both in the same county. The first one I did vitals, listened to lung sounds, helped set up 12 leads,  and oxygen in addition to my patient assessments. The second one I worked with the cot more as far as lifting and loading properly, also got a run down on how to check the truck. We just finished our Trauma module in Basic class so it was pretty neat that they took the time to teach me this stuff!


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## Chief Complaint (Apr 13, 2011)

It definitely depends on who you are riding with, some medics are much more willing to let students practice their skills than others.  As a Basic student, all i really did was put patients on oxygen, and observe. 

As an Intermediate student i have been able to practice quite a few ALS skills in the field.  Plenty of IVs, a couple IOs, intubations, 12-leads, med administration.  Again, it all depends on who im riding with.


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## kiwizoid (Apr 21, 2011)

*Nice*

Hey all!


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## Boduke (Apr 22, 2011)

DFW333 said:


> I always had my riders do written PCRs. And I did one to. Why not? It's just one more form. Write "EMT Student" across the top of his, clip em together and turn them both in. Then they take their pink copy for proof of the patient contact required by the school.
> 
> As for services that dont allow students to load cots because they had a patient dropped by a student once, what do they do when one of their EMTs drops a patient? I can see that now: "Im sorry ma'am, we have to wait for XVille ambulance to get here to load your husband into the ambulance for us, we're not allowed to do that any more."




Haha yeah I heard about that student. I just finished the lecture portion here at CCCC and the instructor made sure that we absolutely do not touch a cot with a patient on it. He said that if our observer said it was ok to respectfully turn it down. It was his #1 stressor


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## DesertMedic66 (Apr 22, 2011)

Boduke said:


> Haha yeah I heard about that student. I just finished the lecture portion here at CCCC and the instructor made sure that we absolutely do not touch a cot with a patient on it. He said that if our observer said it was ok to respectfully turn it down. It was his #1 stressor



nice. we weren't even allowed to touch the cot with or without a patient. we did everything else in the EMT scope from SAMPLE to helping them administer their meds to OPAs.


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## Handsome Robb (Apr 22, 2011)

The companies I did my rides with for basic and intermediate allowed me to perform any skill that was within my scope of practice and their protocols for my level of training under the supervision of the medic. Did my basic in Colorado and my Intermediate in NV. For my hospital rotations as an I, the one of the ED Docs allowed me to attempt and intubation after building a rapport with him. Unfortunately, I missed the tube and he took over :doh: Made me feel better when he missed his first try as well, though.


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## zmedic (Apr 22, 2011)

Boduke; said:
			
		

> Haha yeah I heard about that student. I just finished the lecture portion here at CCCC and the instructor made sure that we absolutely do not touch a cot with a patient on it. He said that if our observer said it was ok to respectfully turn it down. It was his #1 stressor



You don't really want to do any carrying as a student, for your own protection. What happens if you blow out your back lifting someone? Or twist your knee? When you are working you are covered by workman's comp. I doubt the company covers you as a student.


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## steveshurtleff (Apr 22, 2011)

zmedic said:


> You don't really want to do any carrying as a student, for your own protection. What happens if you blow out your back lifting someone? Or twist your knee? When you are working you are covered by workman's comp. I doubt the company covers you as a student.



Sorry for taking this out of context, but worker's comp was covered by the school itself when I did the AMR clinical rather than by AMR.


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## rmabrey (Apr 23, 2011)

During my ride along for my Basic class I really just got familiarized with the ambulance and took vitals. I am currently in an internship class that required 10 shifts or 120 hours........obviously in that time ive become more familiar with what to do and when. Now i am basically the EMT. If it is an ALS run the EMT will sit in the back in case the medic needs something or i screw up, but generally i do all the vitals, set up a lock and flush or a line, get the tape ready etc etc.


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## Azeth (Apr 25, 2011)

When I went on my ride along I performed CPR on a patient in cardiac arrest, was in charge of gathering vitals for all the patients we assessed and also helping setup the ambulance for the next patient. Things like changing the sheets on the stretcher, placing sticky things back on the 12 lead kg, etc.


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## gonefishing (Apr 27, 2011)

When I did my ride alongs, I was not allowd to touch the strecther if it was loaded.  Was allowd to load and unload it if empty.  I ran 911 calls.  Helpd Bag, set up 02, assessment and vitals.  But I always had my emt I was riding with check after wards to make sure I was doing the right vitals.  I rode with an FTO and he was awesome!.  Great way to learn.


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## medicdan (Apr 27, 2011)

Disregard. Duplicate post.


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## SD EMT OPS (Apr 27, 2011)

I let the Students ride in the back with a Staff EMT, Practice taking vitals and doing assessments. no Direct PT care or interventions. but they all seem to have a good time and see a wide variety of calls


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## PHRNJAK (May 2, 2011)

I am in the ride along phase of my education and have had a very good experience so far. I have been with excellent EMT's and Medics that have allowed me to do anything I have learned in school and am comfortable with. I function as a 3rd crew member basically doing everything except radio reports. The crews have even tested my knowledge of our protocols which is good since my cert is comming up in June. I also am required to check my truck (even if the EMT already did it) when I arrive. Good practice


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## Bullets (May 5, 2011)

depends on where the student is in the class. If he has learned it and passed to section test they can do it. obviously vitals are standard issue, but they do everything they feel comfortable with. I always make a point to show them "cool" or interesting things, such as abnormal lung sound, explaining and examining breaks, fractures and other bone breaks by sight(no touching), and always take to opportunity to explain stuff thats totally weird or we see so rarely.

We had an arrest and the pt presented with caped cyanosis which i think is clinically interesting. I also point out abnormal EKG strips and have the medics(the good ones) explain what we are looking at. I like to have EMT partners who can look at an EKG and be able to identify a rhythm beyond normal abnormal. Most of my trainees can identify basic disrhythmia once im done with them. 

New EMT's who are riding as a 3rd are expected to be a full and involved member of the crew and do everything under our scope


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## Deltachange (May 11, 2011)

My ride alongs as a student were basically anything non invasive, I set up O2, grabbed vitals, did trauma exams, set up flushes, spiked bags, and did tape etc for the medic or basic starting the lines. I also got to do patient interviews and talk to the family of our patients, but I also did three ride alongs with the same people, so they knew what I knew, and what I needed help with. Couldn't lift, carry, or move patients at all, beyond holding C-Spine. Company policy, because employees are protected, students aren't.


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## nwhitney (May 13, 2011)

While I was allowed to only do what I had been taught I didn't get to do too much.  I took vitals of a guy who claimed he hadn't slept in 3 weeks and look like he was going to kill me.  The paramedic I was with in the back put me in between him and the pt.  I never loaded or unloaded pt's but I did learn that you shouldn't drop a 70 yr pt who has osteoporosis.  

The other medic was great though a little (admittedly) old school.  He didn't feel the need to wear gloves when starting IV's.  He was great with the pt's and their families.


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## Backwoods (May 16, 2011)

Ive been on a few ride alongs as an explorer and the medics let me do vitals on most patients, and I got to bag & do chest compressions on some patients.


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## jjesusfreak01 (May 16, 2011)

Azeth said:


> When I went on my ride along I performed CPR on a patient in cardiac arrest, was in charge of gathering vitals for all the patients we assessed and also helping setup the ambulance for the next patient. Things like changing the sheets on the stretcher, placing sticky things back on the 12 lead kg, etc.



Sounds like you were an EMT...


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## kknp4life (Jun 4, 2011)

If its a EMT student then they get to work in their scope of practice and if its a ride along then they can only hold stuff for the medic and just sit there and can't get out of the truck if there's a car accident.


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## dstevens58 (Jun 4, 2011)

Tigger said:


> I really wished that patient lifting and handling were a part of my clinicals. I especially wished it was allowed when I was paired with a double female crew and took some flak from some FireMedics for being "lazy" and not helping my crew lift.
> 
> I've also been working for a non-transport service for a year now, so I still have no experience in using a cot at all, I wonder how that will play out when I apply to some privates for the summer.





MEDIC802 said:


> Lifting and moving PT's should be a part of the clinical experience, one of the first things I do with new students is to go over the ambulance and practice loading and unloading the stretcher. I generally expect medic students to have some knowledge ot stretcher operations, but Basic students we will start with all the bascis of lifting, moving PT's and stretcher operations, it's all part of the job.



One of our EMT-B class sessions met at a fire stations and that's all we did all night, load and unload.  We all took turns being the patient, the one at the head, or the one at the feet.  We practiced on the whole class (light-weight patients, average weight patients and "fluffy" ones).



clibb said:


> Glucometry without an IV-certification? Is that on Paramedic orders?



It's written in our protocol, diabetic and anyone with altered mental status, EMT-B's can perform and report a finger stick for glucose levels.


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## MasterIntubator (Jun 5, 2011)

In our area, if they are a member of any surrounding area fire rescue dept, they can ride along and do everything at their currently released position.  Preceptees, do what they are allowed as approved by the course they are in ( each jurisdiction is different, so we have to keep up on it. Preceptees are scheduled and approved thru the training division

New members without any training but are getting a feel... get to watch and help with basics minus the patient touching.

Public ride alongs and outside of our regional operating areas have to fill out liabilty release, get it notarized and approved by the Chief.


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## EMSrush (Jun 5, 2011)

Linuss said:


> Part of it, yes... but not a very big part of it.
> 
> 
> Especially considering many places wont let students handle the cots when a patient is on it.



Yes. At my agency, we will not allow students to move the Pt at all, but they can do vitals and Pt assessment, station duties, rig checks, etc.


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## addictedforever (Jun 6, 2011)

I can't believe that some won't let ride-alongs do hardly anything. I've done shadowing as a civ interested in EMS, altho' I currently do work as a CNA-Acute Care speciality. Every time I've been treated as a team member. I've done everything from BGS to suctioning a ped to restocking to cleaning up to lifting a pt to vitals to loading and unloading the gurney (even tho' I'm almost to short) to everything. The paramedics I've been with, five different ones have all been awesome at answering my questions and helping me feel involved. They let me help on every call from an MI to a psych pt to a ped seizing to the normal BLS calls. It was awesome!


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## TransportJockey (Jun 6, 2011)

If it's just a civi ride along, even if they're an EMT, why should they be doing anything? Chances are they're not covered under the services medical direction, and if they get hurt the rider is the one that's screwed since they have no recourse to get anything paid for by the company they were riding with.


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## addictedforever (Jun 6, 2011)

True. I see your point. Does that mean that I should refuse to do what the paramedic tells me to do, because I may not be covered? Is it any different if it's complete volunteer? Just curious


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## Chief Complaint (Jun 6, 2011)

addictedforever said:


> True. I see your point. Does that mean that I should refuse to do what the paramedic tells me to do, because I may not be covered? Is it any different if it's complete volunteer? Just curious



If you arent covered by insurance, i wouldnt take any risks.  Students here are required to be insured before going to any of our internship hours.  Preceptors will let students do just about anything within our/their comfort zone.  I dont imagine they would be quick to allow a student to attempt a surgical airway, but anything else is fair game depending on the preceptor.  Intubations, IOs, IVs, meds, cardioversion/pacing...not uncommon for a student to perform here.


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## addictedforever (Jun 6, 2011)

Chief Complaint said:


> If you arent covered by insurance, i wouldnt take any risks.  Students here are required to be insured before going to any of our internship hours.  Preceptors will let students do just about anything within our/their comfort zone.  I dont imagine they would be quick to allow a student to attempt a surgical airway, but anything else is fair game depending on the preceptor.  Intubations, IOs, IVs, meds, cardioversion/pacing...not uncommon for a student to perform here.


I guess I'll have to double check that. Honestly, it never entered my head to ask about or even think about insurance. I would never do anything outside of my scope of practice, but other than that I would be comfortable doing whatever the preceptor told me to do. I guess maybe I got some out of the ordinary paramedics or something.


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## Chief Complaint (Jun 6, 2011)

addictedforever said:


> I guess I'll have to double check that. Honestly, it never entered my head to ask about or even think about insurance. I would never do anything outside of my scope of practice, but other than that I would be comfortable doing whatever the preceptor told me to do. I guess maybe I got some out of the ordinary paramedics or something.



If being insured isnt a requirement in your area, id bet that preceptors will be fairly cautious with allowing you to do anything in the field.  You should definitely talk to your instructors/preceptors about it before you get out there.  

Performing tasks outside of your scope of practice might be allowed/common where you live, another topic you should speak with your preceptors about.  For example, during our EMT-I internships, we were allowed to perform interventions that Intermediates/Paramedics would usually do as long as we were supervised by an ALS provider.  While i was technically still an EMT-B, i was starting IVs, IOs, using advanced airways, etc.  

Your instructors should be speaking with you about what you may, or may not do, on your ride a longs.  Its different everywhere.


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## addictedforever (Jun 6, 2011)

Chief Complaint said:


> If being insured isnt a requirement in your area, id bet that preceptors will be fairly cautious with allowing you to do anything in the field.  You should definitely talk to your instructors/preceptors about it before you get out there.
> 
> Performing tasks outside of your scope of practice might be allowed/common where you live, another topic you should speak with your preceptors about.  For example, during our EMT-I internships, we were allowed to perform interventions that Intermediates/Paramedics would usually do as long as we were supervised by an ALS provider.  While i was technically still an EMT-B, i was starting IVs, IOs, using advanced airways, etc.
> 
> Your instructors should be speaking with you about what you may, or may not do, on your ride a longs.  Its different everywhere.



Thanks! More questions to ask my awesome preceptors!   I'm not sure about the performing tasks outside of my scope of practice. I do know that as a CNA I'm allowed to do things like that if delegated by someone who has higher training and if I get training from them. Maybe it's the same on the ambulance? I think I need to ask more questions and get a better picture of what I can and cannot do on the ridealongs.


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## Chief Complaint (Jun 7, 2011)

addictedforever said:


> Thanks! More questions to ask my awesome preceptors!   I'm not sure about the performing tasks outside of my scope of practice. I do know that as a CNA I'm allowed to do things like that if delegated by someone who has higher training and if I get training from them. Maybe it's the same on the ambulance? I think I need to ask more questions and get a better picture of what I can and cannot do on the ridealongs.



Yup, try to avoid those awkward moments as best you can!  A medic might ask you to quickly start an IV on the patient, not knowing that you havent been trained to do so.  Its quite alright to not stick you patient, but your preceptor should have a good idea of what your role should be before you get moving.


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## addictedforever (Jun 7, 2011)

Chief Complaint said:


> Yup, try to avoid those awkward moments as best you can!  A medic might ask you to quickly start an IV on the patient, not knowing that you havent been trained to do so.  Its quite alright to not stick you patient, but your preceptor should have a good idea of what your role should be before you get moving.



Alright, thanks! Trust me, next time I do a ride along, I'm going to be getting some things clear before we end up in the field!


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