# Local firefighter killed in wreck, going to call in POV.



## bigcountryEMS32 (Jun 7, 2009)

Local kid near my hometown. I can appreciate the zealousness, but safety has got to be priority one!!!!

http://www.robesonian.com/pages/ful...instance=secondary_stories_left_column&open=&


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 7, 2009)

Teenager/firefighter ... oxymoron. 

p.s. look at your signature of .. blowing the doors of LEO vehicles & getting by with it? Kinda bad statement huh? 

R/r 911


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## bigcountryEMS32 (Jun 7, 2009)

first off watch your mouth, concerning a young kid getting killed and second the signature is concerning driving ambulances or do I need to spell that out for you. I see you are a RN, do you have the same cold disrespectful attitude in your profession.


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## nibejeebies (Jun 7, 2009)

hes also a Critical Care Paramedic along with an Instructor.  While I dont agree with everything Rid says, He is very knowledgeable.


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## bigcountryEMS32 (Jun 7, 2009)

not doubting his knowledge, still uncalled for, EMS news thread, not a name calling and insult thread. I'm sure if it hit closer to his home he would not be so quick to make such stupid remarks. Although I did not know the kid personally, he was a friend and family of some good friends of mine. Hoped the article would be a wake up call to some.


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## JonTullos (Jun 7, 2009)

Chill out dude, he was just trying to make you think.  I'm sure his message is simply to use the death as a lesson and reminder to be careful.  As you said, safety comes first.

My thoughts and prayers are with the FF's family, friends and department.  My FD lost a man recently.  It sucks.

Jon


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## ffemt8978 (Jun 7, 2009)

I can't believe I have to say this again....


:excllay nice or become the focus of my complete and undivided attention.:excl:


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## reaper (Jun 7, 2009)

bigcountryEMS32 said:


> not doubting his knowledge, still uncalled for, EMS news thread, not a name calling and insult thread. I'm sure if it hit closer to his home he would not be so quick to make such stupid remarks. Although I did not know the kid personally, he was a friend and family of some good friends of mine. Hoped the article would be a wake up call to some.



Where is the insult?

Oxymoron is a phrase that means, the two do not go together. He stated teenager/Firefighter was a oxymoron. That means that children should not be in roles of FF or EMS.
*Ok, I see that he was 18, so not a child any longer.*
There was no insult(except by another).


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## bigcountryEMS32 (Jun 7, 2009)

I know what it means, i rather the teenagers get into volunteering than out getting in trouble or just sitting around being lazy. I would use this tragedy to educate them to being safe rather than discourage them from doing firefighter/ems volunteering at all. Yes, you are right I also came back quick in judgment so apologies to all. Hope this thread can be more than what it is turning into.


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## reaper (Jun 7, 2009)

I agree, it is a tragedy. I hope your are right and they will use it as a teaching aid.


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## enjoynz (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm sorry for your town's loss!
It's a great shame he didn't have his seat belt on, it could have made a difference. And yes, this does serve as a warning to others.

Our small country town has a vollie FD service and they are called to the Fire Station by a fire siren in the town.
I hear them tearing down our street (Just thought I'd mention most of them are not teens) to get to the station ASAP,
and think it's only a matter of time that someone misses the sharp bend at the end of the road.
Some thing's (like safety), tend to be forgotten, in the heat of the moment.

Enjoynz


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## Hal9000 (Jun 7, 2009)

I've worked and trained people at a volunteer EMS organization.  One of the worst flaws of the organization was in not instilling a professional, safety-minded attitude in the students, young and old.  I actually heard one instructor saying that, when "the page goes out, you drive like hell to the barn."  I was mortified at this amazing lack of wisdom.    

I also witnessed the same people neglecting to teach their students to wear restraints while in the ambulances, as apparently being an EMT in am ambulance makes you immune to wrecks.  

After a couple of months and very tense talks, I managed to correct some of the bad habits of the organization.  

I can't say what will happen in the future, but one EMT had already destroyed her own car "driving like hell" to reach the ambulance post during an on-call page.

That sort of attitude is completely unacceptable.  

I believe that the emergency organizations need to address unsafe attitudes and "whackerism" to prevent them from growing and becoming a large problem.  

Maybe with those attitudes instilled in all the members, this event could have been avoided.


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 7, 2009)

bigcountryEMS32 said:


> not doubting his knowledge, still uncalled for, EMS news thread, not a name calling and insult thread. I'm sure if it hit closer to his home he would not be so quick to make such stupid remarks. Although I did not know the kid personally, he was a friend and family of some good friends of mine. Hoped the article would be a wake up call to some.



Yes I would. Sorry, he just turned 18 and I see you removed your signature line. That's good because it was hypocritical. It is exactly that  attitude that was wrong with this horrible tragedy. You want to awaken any, take your own advice. 

Let's look at the facts _...."was driving about 65 mph in a 55-mph zone when the vehicle exited the road to the left and struck a tree"......."Tramel, who was not wearing a seat belt, was killed immediately".....
._

A young life lost for what? What training and education was bestowed upon him prior to this event? He was just on for over a month, should he even been able to respond yet? 

No matter Fire, EMS, LEO all should have an understanding and education before being released. Running fast does not save anyone, and yes this is a very tragic occurrence and the loss of life of one is horrible enough, but we all know we will read about another. Even more of a tragedy, apparently we are not learning. 

Yes, my sympathies go out to the family. Yes, I am that cold hearted if it just one person recognize the dangers involved. Life is too precious. Yes even within my own department we lost a medic from a different occurrence last week. A tragedy yes, but it was stupid event and should had never occurred, he knew better. This does not erase the grief but at the same time does not place their death as noble. 

R/r 911


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## bigcountryEMS32 (Jun 7, 2009)

bigcountryEMS32 said:


> I know what it means, i rather the teenagers get into volunteering than out getting in trouble or just sitting around being lazy. I would use this tragedy to educate them to being safe rather than discourage them from doing firefighter/ems volunteering at all. Yes, you are right I also came back quick in judgment so apologies to all. Hope this thread can be more than what it is turning into.



Ridryder911: think i'll let this discussion be, if you read that far in the thread, you should have also seen the apology and yet you still want to start your thread with more "wisdom". Yes my signature was meant as some comic relief about ambulance driving and was not meant to be "hypocritical". It was my signature before I started this thread. I thought posting the thread along with the article presented the "facts" clear enough. I offered an apology and I'll leave it at that.


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## MedicObserver (Jun 8, 2009)

what is up with this? why is everyone sitting around arguing and fighting when we should be praying for the guy's family and friends?!  where i come from, EMS is one big family and nobody ever says anything like this, not ever!! mistakes are made and people screw up every now and then; a conference is held to see what can be learned from the situation and everyone drops the disagreement and goes on to what really matters: supporting your brothers and sisters and continuing the duties of a responder. i know this because our local ambulance company lost a critical care paramedic last year. the outpouring from the community was unbelievable. other departments from all over the state attended the funeral and marched behind the ambulance that carried his body to the cemetery. if there were another point on the Star of Life, it would be for brotherhood. while everyone else in the world is at each others' throats, EMS is there standing strong and ready to support one another.


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## VentMedic (Jun 8, 2009)

MedicObserver said:


> . if there were another point on the Star of Life, it would be for brotherhood. while everyone else in the world is at each others' throats, EMS is there standing strong and ready to support one another.


 
Part of that support should also be looking out for each other and that may involve some words of reality to prevent another death and losing another member of the brotherhood.


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## JonTullos (Jun 8, 2009)

MedicObserver said:


> what is up with this? why is everyone sitting around arguing and fighting when we should be praying for the guy's family and friends?!  where i come from, EMS is one big family and nobody ever says anything like this, not ever!! mistakes are made and people screw up every now and then; a conference is held to see what can be learned from the situation and everyone drops the disagreement and goes on to what really matters: supporting your brothers and sisters and continuing the duties of a responder. i know this because our local ambulance company lost a critical care paramedic last year. the outpouring from the community was unbelievable. other departments from all over the state attended the funeral and marched behind the ambulance that carried his body to the cemetery. if there were another point on the Star of Life, it would be for brotherhood. while everyone else in the world is at each others' throats, EMS is there standing strong and ready to support one another.



A big component of EMS is QI, or "quality improvement."  It's meant to identify problems (such as excessive speed) and to come up with a plan to fix it (such as not allowing POV responders to have dashlights or now allowing them to flash their hazzards en route).  I've never actually been apart of a QI (I'm still a student) but it would seem that sometimes a dose of reality is needed.  While it's not meant to be an argument, sometimes the truth hurts.  I'm not saying with certainty that this young man was at fault, I wasn't there... but the facts would seem to indicate that he may have been and Rid's simply presenting a case on being careful and using common sense when responding to the scene.  If this kind of honesty and "reality check" isn't had every now and then, more people would be put at risk from driving and other bad practices (including bad patient care).


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## bstone (Jun 8, 2009)

> was driving about 65 mph in a 55-mph zone


Speed seems reasonable. Yes, it is above the legal limit but this is not unreasonable.



> Tramel, who was not wearing a seat belt, was killed immediately.


How needlesly tragic. How very sad. Please- wear your seatbelts.


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## Ridryder911 (Jun 8, 2009)

MedicObserver said:


> what is up with this? why is everyone sitting around arguing and fighting when we should be praying for the guy's family and friends?!  where i come from, EMS is one big family and nobody ever says anything like this, not ever!! mistakes are made and people screw up every now and then; a conference is held to see what can be learned from the situation and everyone drops the disagreement and goes on to what really matters: supporting your brothers and sisters and continuing the duties of a responder. i know this because our local ambulance company lost a critical care paramedic last year. the outpouring from the community was unbelievable. other departments from all over the state attended the funeral and marched behind the ambulance that carried his body to the cemetery. if there were another point on the Star of Life, it would be for brotherhood. while everyone else in the world is at each others' throats, EMS is there standing strong and ready to support one another.



Yes, we should be saddened over the loss of a potential member but let's not hold hands and sing Kumbaya either. Sorry, members of work are my friends and peers not my brothers or sisters and when an occurrence happens that could and can be prevented, let us not let the life go in vain. 

Should we support and pray for those affected? You bet. That is a given but this is not the first time this type of event occured and more sadly it will not be the last. 

Please read Vent's new post of the safety. Our job is dangerous enough when it is done properly and safe, let's not increase our numbers. 

R/r 911


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## rescuepoppy (Jun 8, 2009)

Am I reading the news article correctly?  Was he responding to a vehicle fire? I am sorry that this young man lost his life. But how can anyone justify a full on emergency response for a car fire? when you weigh loss of property against a human life the scales come no where near balancing. I put a lot of the blame here on the department for not being strong enough on education and discipline.


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## VFFforpeople (Jun 8, 2009)

I am sorry for the loss of a FF. Rid is right I agree with his stance in this. Going full response after being on a month, is a poor choice of the department, before one can drive our rig you have to be on 6months have X amount of drive time, and them go through your brass. Not wearing a seatbelt..I am sorry is just wrong, we preach it in our jobs, and not to practice it. As for him going POV to sence, speeding..there is no need. We are not emergancy people, the rigs are already rolling, its already been called in. No need to speed. Again lets all try and get something from this and keep going on.


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## firecoins (Jun 8, 2009)

Rid is correct on this one.  This 18 year old is in fact a child.  65 does not seem unreasonable agaist the speed limit but it was unreasonable for this person to be able to drive safely.  Responding to a car fire seems an unreasonable reason to be driving unsafely.


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## MRE (Jun 9, 2009)

firecoins said:


> 65 does not seem unreasonable agaist the speed limit but it was unreasonable for this person to be able to drive safely



That was my thought also.  Quite often, people drive 10+ over the speed limit anyway.  I wonder if there were other factors involved that were not mentioned in the article.


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## firecoins (Jun 9, 2009)

W1IM said:


> That was my thought also.  Quite often, people drive 10+ over the speed limit anyway.  I wonder if there were other factors involved that were not mentioned in the article.



If he was doing 65 in a 55 than you can bet there were other factors.  Weather conditions or more likely this person was weaving between other vehicles.


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## el Murpharino (Jun 9, 2009)

Was there a blue light in use?  Was the road curvy?  Was it foggy?  Too many variables to make an accurate assumption.


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## rmellish (Jun 10, 2009)

"Cummings said the fire destroyed the vehicle at Strickland Heights, but no one was injured. "

Just because it's on fire doesn't make it an emergency. 
There's a reason the leadership of some local vollie departments won't sign POV light permits...

And yes, of course it's a tragedy as well.


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