# Help with Reciprocity



## Frenchie (Jul 19, 2010)

Going from Canada to the USA

Hello,


    I am a Primary Care Paramedic from Ontario Canada. I have been looking into working in another country - however I am encountering difficulty in the reciprocity process. My first and foremost dream is to work for the FDNY as a Paramedic(second is a Paramedic in the london ambulance service), now I know my scope as a PCP will only afford me the position of EMT-B/I -even with two years of college education, but just to work there is what I'm after! I make enough money investing to support myself in Manhatten - and Im in the process of applying for a working visa - so don't need help/advice with that. I have called our Ministry of Health, but they only deal with those coming into Canada, I have called the reciprocity board for the DOH in NYC - but they only deal with inter-state emt's. No one knows who to call or how to make it happen?! I even called the NREMT, but they can't help - besides FDNY doesn't accept NREMT reciprocity only. To make an already long story short I need help for anyone who knows something about this process, without me going back to school and/or  taking a degrading emt weekend course... I am, however considering taking the Paramedic course at one of the colleges in NYC - but still need a NYC emt-B+ status as minimum requirement. Please help me!


----------



## firecoins (Jul 19, 2010)

I can help you. 

NYS DOH is the authority in NY state and they do not take Canadian reciprocity.  If they did, they would have told you when you called.

The answer is to take the NYS EMT-B class.  I am sorry.  There is no way around it. Its only a 3 month class.   Than you can roll right into any one of the community college paramedic program. If you volunteer in NYS, you won't even have to pay for it. Once you have the EMT, you can apply to FDNY.  I am not sure if they require citizenship or not.  

NYC EMS is pretty lousy right now in terms of hiring. Now as for FDNY, you will not make enough to live in Manhattan. 

What is wrong with doing EMS in Toronto or Montreal or even Buffalo, NY? If you do Buffalo, NY, it will get you into NYS ems certs while you take care of any FDNY requirments.  You can also save money towards living in NY.


----------



## medic417 (Jul 19, 2010)

firecoins said:


> NYC EMS is pretty lousy



Very true.  

If the Op really wants to experience quality EMS in the USA there are much better places to go.


----------



## Frenchie (Jul 19, 2010)

Thank you so much, I really do appreciate your reply. You are the first to give me a complete answer to my question. I already work for Toronto EMS and Niagara EMS - this move is because I love what I do, and would like to do it in the City that I love. I cannot thank you enough for your help - at least now I have direction.


----------



## firecoins (Jul 19, 2010)

Okay

Looking at my trusty map of Toronto, Niagra and Buffalo, take the time to take the EMT class and paramedic program in Buffalo NY. I do not know what it is like to go through customs but it seems you just need to cros the border.  Its a little easier than moving to the UK to go through the schooling there.

I would get the NREMT-P also. You can work in NJ, Connecticut or Pennsylvania all of which with in a 2 hour drive of the NYC area.  Phillidelphia,PA are Camden NJ busy urban systems 2.5 hours away while Jersey City, NJ and Newark, NJ are just across the river.  CT has alot busy 911 systems.


----------



## MrBrown (Jul 19, 2010)

Seriously mate, give Australia, NZ or South Africa a look or even the UK.

After extensive research the US is just not worth the time, energy, cost and hassle for what you seem to get out of it as far as pay, working conditions, benefits and that is without considering the clinical side.

Not sure if you have looked into but it is almost 100% impossible to get a work visa as a Paramedic in the US.


----------



## firecoins (Jul 20, 2010)

does NZ or Australia even accept American paramedics?


----------



## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 20, 2010)

firecoins said:


> does NZ or Australia even accept American paramedics?


Yes I have spoke with 2 U.S. guys from this forum who now work in Oz. They normally make you a lower level "paramedic" and take another year of training of theres to get there "ICP" which is there highest level paramedic. One guy said they just preceptored him for several months before giving him his ICP. Its on a case to case basis and depends on your Paramedic programs hours, credits, and training, other college education, and experience. 

Regarding the OP and his question of reciprocity I have another suggestion that you should at least look into. I also looked into FDNY a while back. When I did the NYS would accept almost any other states Paramedic certification, but would not accept NREMT. However many states take NREMT for reciprocity. So Instead of repeating your training in the U.S. I would try and get NREMT, then file reciprocity into a state like California, then when California gives you a cert (and they will if your NREMT you just have to pay them, all they want is money) Use your California state cert to file reciprocity into NYS, then take REMAC (when your a paramedic) for NYC and bada bing! 
Contact our NREMT nremt.org See if they will grant you reciprocity as a NREMT-B or I or P or whatever level you are


----------



## akflightmedic (Jul 20, 2010)

I like how everyone is talking this guy out of his dream.

For once, a person comes on here and already has an education and paid experience. He knows that he would have to come in at a lower level position even though he currently performs at a higher one.

He knows it is expensive. He knows it sucks.

But...what he said was he wants to work in a city he loves AND he makes enough money to support himself to live in Manhattan.

So obviously this has nothing to do with pay, it has nothing to do with which level of EMS he is at, he simply wants to fulfill a dream of working EMS in NYC. 

Crazy? Yes it is, but to talk him out of it...foolish!


----------



## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 20, 2010)

I say more power to him, I just think the NREMT could cut him a break to help with his process, its at least worth a try.
I think any Paramedic filing reciprocity into NYC is clearly NOT motivated by money lol. I still play with the idea, its why I joined this forum 5 years ago.


----------



## MrBrown (Jul 20, 2010)

Aw come on mate it goes against my Hippopotambous Oath to stand idly by and see somebody do such a thing to himself ....


----------



## firecoins (Jul 20, 2010)

akflightmedic said:


> I like how everyone is talking this guy out of his dream.


I did no such thing. I told him the reality of the situation and how he could prepare for it. 



> For once, a person comes on here and already has an education and paid experience. He knows that he would have to come in at a lower level position even though he currently performs at a higher one.


He is dealing with NYS. That irrelevant. 





> But...what he said was he wants to work in a city he loves AND he makes enough money to support himself to live in Manhattan.


As I said, medics do not make enough to support themselves in Manhattan.



> So obviously this has nothing to do with pay, it has nothing to do with which level of EMS he is at, he simply wants to fulfill a dream of working EMS in NYC.


No one said it did.   I gave him the advice to get all his NY certs in line. 



> Crazy? Yes it is, but to talk him out of it...foolish!


No one did any such thing.


----------



## akflightmedic (Jul 20, 2010)

Taking it a bit personal eh?

Do not remember singling you out....and in regards to the making enough...he said he makes enough from investing to support himself, pay was irrelevant.

The guy came here with a plan and everyone started asking about other places...have you considered this, have you considered that.

Notice I never said YOU Firecoins....I just said everyone since several people did it and it is easier to group and less personal than singling out.


----------



## firecoins (Jul 20, 2010)

akflightmedic said:


> Taking it a bit personal eh?
> 
> Do not remember singling you out....and in regards to the making enough...he said he makes enough from investing to support himself, pay was irrelevant.



no, just setting the record straight. 

Living in Manhattan takes money.  Anywhere in NY does but Manhattan is the most expensive.


----------



## rescue99 (Jul 20, 2010)

firecoins said:


> Okay
> 
> Looking at my trusty map of Toronto, Niagra and Buffalo, take the time to take the EMT class and paramedic program in Buffalo NY. I do not know what it is like to go through customs but it seems you just need to cros the border.  Its a little easier than moving to the UK to go through the schooling there.
> 
> I would get the NREMT-P also. You can work in NJ, Connecticut or Pennsylvania all of which with in a 2 hour drive of the NYC area.  Phillidelphia,PA are Camden NJ busy urban systems 2.5 hours away while Jersey City, NJ and Newark, NJ are just across the river.  CT has alot busy 911 systems.



Taking a class in Buffalo is a good idea. Being just south of the border ourselves here in MoTown, we get occasional students from Canada taking their EMS courses so as to line up work here. Don't know anymore than that but, good luck.


----------



## dudemanguy (Jul 20, 2010)

Im curious why so many people are impressed with the idea of working for FDNY EMS? Is there something special about them I dont know about?


----------



## bstone (Jul 20, 2010)

Call New Jersey's EMS board and ask them if they will accept Canadian certs. Or ANY other state and find whoever takes. Get a license in that state and then challenge the NREMT. You then be golden.


----------



## medic417 (Jul 20, 2010)

dudemanguy said:


> Im curious why so many people are impressed with the idea of working for FDNY EMS? Is there something special about them I dont know about?



Inquiring minds want to know.  Only thing I can think of is the way portrayed in movies, TV.  Their actual medical practice is not that widely respected so must just be the big city and bright lights.


----------



## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 20, 2010)

bstone said:


> Call New Jersey's EMS board and ask them if they will accept Canadian certs. Or ANY other state and find whoever takes. Get a license in that state and then challenge the NREMT. You then be golden.


+1 to this, this is an even better idea. However he does not need NREMT, NYS will not accept it. Your idea is the backwards version of mine which might work out better for him if NREMT gives him a hard time. NYS will accept almost any other U.S. state certification. Each state has completely different reciprocity rules and standards.


----------



## firecoins (Jul 20, 2010)

As mentioned NYS does not accept the NREMT-P but NJ does.  IF NJ gives you the MICU than NY will accept you. 

FDNY hiring process will take 2 to 6 months. So you could live and work in northern Jersey, which is somewhat cheaper and get all the thrills of living NYC area.  I live upstate and spend 1 or 2 days in Manhattan doing comedy. Love it.   If FDNY hires you, you can commute into it easily.  Most people commute into the city for work.


----------



## bstone (Jul 20, 2010)

schulz said:


> +1 to this, this is an even better idea. However he does not need NREMT, NYS will not accept it. Your idea is the backwards version of mine which might work out better for him if NREMT gives him a hard time. NYS will accept almost any other U.S. state certification. Each state has completely different reciprocity rules and standards.



I was just thinking of challenging the NREMT so he can be portable. Also I know NJ takes NREMT and NY will accept NJ for reciprocity. In case he has to get a license in like, I dunno, Wyoming then getting NREMT is a good idea.


----------



## ExpatMedic0 (Jul 20, 2010)

Yeah I am saying if the NREMT will not grant him reciprocity, then start going directly state to state trying to file reciprocity from Canada. Once you have any state certification use that to file reciprocity into NY.

Of course if NREMT grants you reciprocity this will be much easier and save you a lot of leg work.


----------



## bstone (Jul 20, 2010)

schulz said:


> Yeah I am saying if the NREMT will not grant him reciprocity, then start going directly state to state trying to file reciprocity from Canada. Once you have any state certification use that to file reciprocity into NY.
> 
> Of course if NREMT grants you reciprocity this will be much easier and save you a lot of leg work.



And, for the purposes of portability, once (and if) he gets a state license then take the NREMT. Never hurts.


----------



## MrBrown (Jul 20, 2010)

It may be important to mention it is almost guarenteed to be 100% impossible to obtain a work visa as a Paramedic.

Brown gave up because it was too hard.


----------



## jjesusfreak01 (Jul 20, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> It may be important to mention it is almost guarenteed to be 100% impossible to obtain a work visa as a Paramedic.
> 
> Brown gave up because it was too hard.



I'll bet if you had shown up in person in a bright orange jumpsuit...




schulz said:


> Yes I have spoke with 2 U.S. guys from this forum who now work in Oz. They normally make you a lower level "paramedic" and take another year of training of theres to get there "ICP" which is there highest level paramedic. One guy said they just preceptored him for several months before giving him his ICP. Its on a case to case basis and depends on your Paramedic programs hours, credits, and training, other college education, and experience.


Seems to me that makes sense as US medics practice at the same level as in other countries, regardless of how long they spent in school.


----------



## MrBrown (Jul 21, 2010)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> I'll bet if you had shown up in person in a bright orange jumpsuit...



If your bright orange jumpsuit has "DOCTOR" (or RN, or PA or MN etc) written on the back in big green letters its suprisingly easy!  Other countries like the UK, Australia, NZ and Canada recognise Paramedic / Intensive Care Paramedic as skill shortage or immigration assist providable occupations howver not in the US.  Now should you one day require an advanced degree to practice ALS then that might change!



jjesusfreak01 said:


> Seems to me that makes sense as US medics practice at the same level as in other countries, regardless of how long they spent in school.



Yes we have some US Paramedics down here, they just go through an individualised reciprocity and equivalency process; generally this involves some mentoring and a bit of a portfolio to get up to our Intensive Care level.


----------



## Frenchie (Jul 21, 2010)

First of all... Thanks for everyone's input


I can see there are a lot of good people in this Forum. I'm very new to EMTLIFE, but its good to able to seek out advice from fellow Paramedics and not damn pencil pushers - they just drive me up the wall! The reason why I want to work with the FDNY is for two reasons - 1) To work and live in NYC, its a cliché I know, but man I love NY! -2) Despite all its shortfalls, there has got to be some adventures to be had in that City. I just want a change - Ive been working as a Paramedic in Niagara Region (Niagara Falls) and Toronto for five years now - both cities are KRRRAAAPPP. Id like to do the Flight Medic thing, but here you have to cut your teeth for a year in a place called Moosonee (accessible only by plane or train) - so thats on hold. I am also seriously looking into London Ambulance Service and their student paramedic program... does anyone know if Ive already taken a two year course if I can accelerate through the three year program there? And I would work in Montreal my home town - but they are still in the dark ages in terms of scope of practice... many people trained as Advanced Care Paramedics who can only practice at the equivalent of an emt... so till their Ministry gets with the times I will not go there. EMT could you imagine?!



P.S. Any advice on the process for The London Ambulance Service, Uk would be very much appreciated. Also I wont settle for surrounding towns no matter how close or how good they may be.


                                                                                                   Frenchie PCP


----------



## MrBrown (Jul 21, 2010)

The shape of EMS worldwide seems to be on increasing education and deliniation of what has been "traditional?" boundaries between levels of provider (again, measured by the American standard).

To that end, I really support what Canada (and Ontario specifically) has done moving toward the NOCP PCP and ACP however Canada seems to lag a little behind nations like Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.  I say this because the NOCP PCP in Canada is about the level of our entry Ambulance Technician (although they have more education) however such a level does not exist anymore in Australia or the UK.

What does that mean? It means if you want my two cents that if you are a dedicated practitioner of prehospital medicine forget about moving to the US which is still twenty years behind everybody else and move somewhere that you can experience a comparable, if not in some ways more advanced, system.

Having invested the last two years looking on-and-off at moving to the US and speaking to people including hiring managers and regulators its simply that the US system is just not worth the effort.  Having had the opportunity to travel around and experience the US extensively it is unfortunate to say that because I really do like the US.  

Can't speak to the UK specifically but generally they have two levels; Emergency Care Assistant (read: driver) and Paramedic (ALS).  You may be able to approach the HPC for reciprocity but this would require ACP.

Good luck bro.


----------



## BEorP (Jul 26, 2010)

It would probably be easy to do one of those EMT-B "boot camps" in a couple weeks rather than trying to get them to recognize your current training and education. Best of luck!


----------

