# Five Suspended After 'Dead' Franklin Man Found Ali



## DFDEMS (Jan 26, 2005)

> *LOUISBURG, N.C. -- Four paramedics and a volunteer EMS are suspended with pay after a medical examiner studying a body in a morgue discovered the person was still alive.*



Full article here

That must suck.....


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## coloradoemt (Jan 26, 2005)

I wonder if they hooked a moniter up to him? Either way, how embarrassing.


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## daemonicusxx (Jan 26, 2005)

we recently purchased an ambulance. used by the FD, and when we were cleaning it out we found a few things. one thing we found was a body bag kit, with the toe tags and stuff. i was just wondering why a FD Medic would be stocking a body bag kit


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## Chimpie (Jan 26, 2005)

And now he's on life support.  Odd  :blink:


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## Jon (Jan 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by daemonicusxx_@Jan 26 2005, 05:02 PM
> * we recently purchased an ambulance. used by the FD, and when we were cleaning it out we found a few things. one thing we found was a body bag kit, with the toe tags and stuff. i was just wondering why a FD Medic would be stocking a body bag kit *


 Out my way, every squad has them. Up until 2 years ago, the local ambulance did all DOA transports, too. Now the Coroners' office has their own transporters, but depending on the nature, etc, sometimes the ambulance will still transport the DOA.

And it never hurts to have one or two sitting around.


Jon


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## ResTech (Jan 28, 2005)

All I can do is shake my head.... This situation is becoming too frequent and has happened numerous times by EMS over the past couple of years. The only way to mistakenly declare someone dead is to do a half-*** assessment and assume. 

I always, even when death "appears" obvious due to extended downtime or extensive injuries, perform the same steps to declare death. 

1. Check breathing
2. Check pulse
3. Listen apically for heart tones
4. Look for other signs of death (ie. cold, skin color, rigor mortis, lividity, and injuries obviously considered incompatible with life). 

* And if ALS is there they will apply the cardiac monitor and verify asystole in a minimum of two leads. 

I always follow the above steps for formality and documentation sake. And not to mention I don't want this kinda thing happening to me. And in my area no EMS units carry body bags. We don't transport DOA's. The coronor or the funeral home transports.


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## runindash05 (Jan 28, 2005)

all i can say is, thank god i wasn't the patient 

Brandon


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ResTech_@Jan 28 2005, 11:55 AM
> * * And if ALS is there they will apply the cardiac monitor and verify asystole in a minimum of two leads. *


 Why not verify asystole in 3 leads? you should be able to on any monitor... right?


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## MMiz (Jan 28, 2005)

Many people have brought up many great points, but we're really only hearing one side of the story.

I'd like to know what was actually performed before they declared the patient.


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## Jon (Jan 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DFDEMS_@Jan 26 2005, 02:52 PM
> *
> 
> 
> ...


 I'm getting a Monty Python flash here:


"I'm Not dead yet...."

"...I'll be getting around by thursday.."



Jon


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## ResTech (Jan 29, 2005)

PArescueEMT, 
The verifying of asystole in two leads is a redundant procedure. If you have no electrical activity in at least two different leads, checking any additional leads isn't going to be anymore conclusive. Most monitors can perform 12-leads but we don't perform a 12-lead on a DOA for confirmation. 

But I do understand where your coming from and they're isn't anything saying you can't check in three different leads if you as a provider would choose to do so.


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## ffemt8978 (Jan 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by MMiz_@Jan 28 2005, 05:55 PM
> * Many people have brought up many great points, but we're really only hearing one side of the story.
> 
> I'd like to know what was actually performed before they declared the patient. *


 Good point.  I'd like to know if they considered themselves to be in a MCI situation, since we all know that the rules for pronouncing death change then.  Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever hear both sides of the story.


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## PArescueEMT (Jan 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ResTech_@Jan 29 2005, 09:53 PM
> * PArescueEMT,
> The verifying of asystole in two leads is a redundant procedure. If you have no electrical activity in at least two different leads, checking any additional leads isn't going to be anymore conclusive. Most monitors can perform 12-leads but we don't perform a 12-lead on a DOA for confirmation.
> 
> But I do understand where your coming from and they're isn't anything saying you can't check in three different leads if you as a provider would choose to do so. *


 when I was Vollying on a 9-1-1 truck, the medics had to confirm asystole in 3 leads before they were given command to pronounce.

that was using a LP-10


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## lindsayn2 (Jan 30, 2005)

Suspended with pay???  Why pay, they obviously werent doing the job they were paid to do in the first place.


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## cbdemt (Jan 30, 2005)

We carry body bags in our Rescue and Ambulance.  Dont really know why though, Coronor transports all DOA's... They're just there I guess.


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## Phridae (Jan 31, 2005)

Wow. How does that happen? We work everyone. Unless they have no head, or they're stiff as a rock. And thats that. I can't imagine. You always think when someone dies "What if they're not dead, what if it was a mistake?" Umm...Usually its not supposed to be a mistake.


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