# Stuck on the fence.



## Handsome Robb (Nov 23, 2010)

First off, I would like to thank all of you for the service you have given to our country.

I have a question, I searched around and didn't find to much specific to my question. 

I have been talking a a recruiter for the Army National Guard for the past couple of months. I had an injury playing football in HS and was transported by the local agency here and ever since then I have been interested in EMS. I wanted to be a firefighter ever since I was a little kid, but after my injury, I started becoming interested in the medical side of it. I did an internship in HS with the local ambulance company after recovering from my injury and it got me hooked. I went out and got my EMT-B and am scheduled to sit for the NREMT-I/85 exam in two weeks.

I was talking to this recruiter about a 68W position, and he has nothing to give me besides active duty, which I do not want to do. My ultimate goal is to get my EMT-P certificate and eventually my CCP and move to HEMS after getting some experience on the streets.

I have always considered the military but have never pulled the trigger on enlisting. I would like to serve my country, but because I know myself, active duty isn't for me.
There is an Air Ambulance unit here locally that I am very interested in. I went up to the base with my recruiter and talked with the commander. They have some flight medic positions opening up, but even with my EMT-I, which I am very confident I will pass the exam, was told me they only really use EMT-Ps for their flight medic spots. What they have to offer me is a 15T position. I have always loved Blackhawks and almost enlisted in the CG as a Rescue Swimmer and even thought about going to in the AF as a PJ but never did due to not wanting to be active duty. I love working with my hands and enjoy mechanical tasks, so this position does interest me. They tell me that my best option is to enlist as a 15T and work with the unit for a few years until I am done with my EMT-P, and then request a MOS change to 68W after I gain flight status as a crew chief. 

My main question is, how feasible is this? I know recruiters are notorious for up-selling these slots they need to fill, and I know I would enjoy working as a 15T but my main goal in my career is to be a paramedic and have always been told to use the military to work towards my career goal. I basically am just looking for advice. Are they telling me something that is possible or is it just a pipe dream?

Sorry for the long dragged out post. I hope it makes sense.

Thanks again,
Robby


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 23, 2010)

Just a side note, I scored very high on the ASVAB. My AFQT was a 97 with my lowest section score at a 115 in the word comprehension. English has never been my strong point. They even told me it was a possibility that I could be selected for a spot in flight school down the road, which is something else I have always been interested in.

Sorry for the extra post, it wouldn't let me edit the original after 15 minutes had elapsed after I had posted it originally.


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## ChorusD (Nov 23, 2010)

So he told you the only spaces he had for 68W were active duty?


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## citizensoldierny (Nov 23, 2010)

Rob,
I actually went to my 15U transition school  with a Sgt. from the Nevada National Guard who was going to a Chinook unit and liked Nevada National Guard Aviation a whole bunch. But everyone is different I hold both a 15T, and 15U in addition  to being a 13B. I enjoyed some parts of the Aviation field, good living conditions, treated like a human(as much as the Army ever does), awesome skills to have if you like working on mechanical things, esp. super expensive, mission critical machinery, and I got to go fly fairly frequently. What I was less than thrilled with was the paperwork and long hours,  I frequently worked 14 hour + days while deployed while doing phases(phase maintenance). Overall not a bad job if you like getting dirty, Blackhawks aren't nearly as bad as Chinooks though.Btw Ft. Eustis is a blast, the AIT types there get a lot of freedom and Newport News has a bunch to do.

      With that being said though I would try for the 68w to begin with  if that is what you want. Then you won't have to worry about slots opening up and the like. If the Guard won't put you in one try the other branches Guard and Reserves. New York Guard had no 68W slots anywhere near my house so when it came time to re-enlist I ended up going to a reserve unit closer to my house when  my contract ended, and now I have no worries about State duties to boot.

      As for recruiters follow the Golden rule stick to your guns and absolutely get whatever they promise in writing. My recruiters and retention people have always been honest just have had a slight bias towards trying to meet their mission. For example trying to fill the need on his desk for Blackhawk Mechanics. 

      If you have any questions feel free to ask or PM me if you don't want it out there for the general public.


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## Afflixion (Nov 23, 2010)

The reason you are being told this is because chances are you are talking to an active duty recruiter, you must talk to a National Guard recruiter to get anywhere with that, they do not have cross communication as Army and Army Reserves do. Find your local NG Armory and they should have recruiters in there.

Edit: You also may want to make sure although you said it was your lowest line score was 115, but medics need a GT score of 107 minimum.


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## Flight-LP (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm curious, why do you continuously state that active duty service isn't for you?


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## Afflixion (Nov 23, 2010)

Flight-LP said:


> I'm curious, why do you continuously state that active duty service isn't for you?



Flight does bring a valid point, you are aware that depending on the state the National Guard deploys more frequently than active duty does now?


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 23, 2010)

Afflixion said:


> Flight does bring a valid point, you are aware that depending on the state the National Guard deploys more frequently than active duty does now?



I know my NG unit is currently getting ready to head over to Afghanistan.  And I will be hopefully joining them in May of 2011.  

Go talk to a NG recruiter! I do know that there are some areas in the United States were 68w Slots are way over strength, but that doesnt mean it is impossible to get you a slot either.


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 23, 2010)

http://www.nv.ngb.army.mil/army/recruiting.cfm 

There is contact information for NV ARNG


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 23, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I have been talking to a NG recruiter, he is the same recruiter my friend went through to enlist this summer into the same unit as a 15U. He told me there are no 68W spots open in NV at this time.

I have the paper with my scores somewhere, I don't have them handy, but my recruiter was astonished at how high I scored. He said it was one of the highest overall he had seen in the past few years. My GT score was way up there. 120s-130s I believe? I know that I exceed all of the standards the army has set for the two jobs I am looking at. 

I am aware that NG units are deploying more frequently than active units are. The reason I am pretty set on NG is I have an awesome job. I enjoy what I do and want to continue doing it as it is giving me experience in EMS even though I am not actively on a rig. I have no problem with being deployed, though, knowing that when I come back my job will be there waiting.


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## O 2 (Nov 23, 2010)

Rob, 

Sounds like you're asking all the right questions. 

From what I recall, I believe you can transfer from one NG unit to another. In which case perhaps  a unit in a bordering state _does_ have 68w opening. Join up there, commute for a while (hey, its only one weekend a month, two weeks a year then when the NV unit has a opening, transfer over. Maybe they can even put that in your contract. 

The way I see it; you're sacrificing a lot to serve, why not serve on your own terms. I'd be afraid of getting railroaded once you already have a completely different MOS. 

BTW 68w and it looks like you prolly wouldn't do too much above your I-'85 scope, with the exception of some sweet trauma surgical procedures. If its a higher scope and an acronym ending in P that you're after, only army SF medics(18D) and airforce PJs get trained up as NREMT-Ps on the gov's dime:wacko:


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## MrBrown (Nov 24, 2010)

Could always join the Marines, gotta love that uniform B)


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 24, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> Could always join the Marines, gotta love that uniform B)



Does Mrs Brown know your looking at the guys in those uniforms haha


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## MrBrown (Nov 24, 2010)

They have female Marines now


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 24, 2010)

Thank you. What I meant by them paying for mt EMT-P certificate was through tuition reimbursement and the GI bill, but looking back on it I worded that very badly.


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## Afflixion (Nov 25, 2010)

O 2 said:


> BTW 68w and it looks like you prolly wouldn't do too much above your I-'85 scope, with the exception of some sweet trauma surgical procedures. If its a higher scope and an acronym ending in P that you're after, only army SF medics(18D) and airforce PJs get trained up as NREMT-Ps on the gov's dime:wacko:



Why is it people who are quite ignorant in the ways of military medicine always feel the need to state something like this... It's not an attack on you O2, just people do it all the time and have no clue.

First off, although Army medics are only certified as EMT-B does not mean that they work off that cert... In the military you work under your provider (PA, MD, or DO) and he will let you do what he is comfortable doing, they should all be actively teaching their medics more knowledge, techniques, procedures and such. 90% of a 68W training is on the job training and they're education should never cease. The only reason why the army gives out the NREMT is for soldiers benefit once they get out of the army,  as Navy Corpsmen do not have to and typically do not take the National Registry the army does.

As for getting put through Paramedic school, That is a big negative on only 18Ds getting put through school...

160th SOAR Flight Medics get put through P
75th Ranger Medics get put through P
Civil Affairs Medics get put through P
18D Special Forces Aidsman get put through P
ANY MEDIC who gets into W1 or W4 school gets put through P
MOST DIVISIONS ARE SENDING medics to paramedic school on the governments dime and time.

So once again please do not speculate to things that you in fact do not know.

EDIT: Also as for other services... Airforce Independent Practice Medevac Specialists and Navy Independent Practice Corpsman also have to go through paramedic course.


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 25, 2010)

O 2 said:


> Rob,
> 
> Sounds like you're asking all the right questions.
> 
> ...



Quick question. are you a 68w? Are you in the army under any MOS? or even in the military? 

Just because AIT for 68w you obtain your EMT-B.  This is only a portion of the 16 weeks you are at FSHTX.  You also have the whiskey portion of your training.  It is up to your Doctor or whoever you are working under will determine what your scope of practice is.


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## Afflixion (Nov 25, 2010)

Glad to see I am not the only one this irks KDL... LOL


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 25, 2010)

Afflixion said:


> Glad to see I am not the only one this irks KDL... LOL



it happens, people don't truly understand what we do in the military, and I'm fine with that.  I just wish people who are not in the military say and inform people on the way things are done.


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## Afflixion (Nov 25, 2010)

EMT11KDL said:


> it happens, people don't truly understand what we do in the military, and I'm fine with that.  I just wish people who are not in the military say and inform people on the way things are done.



Yes, only a military medic has the distinct ability to diagnose someone with THS... a very severe illness, LOL


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 30, 2010)

Thanks guys. I'm still very unsure about it. I know that military medicine is completely different from the civilian side of it. I would love to get the 68WF6 spot and they make it sound like its doable to switch, or even just a spot on the flight crew, but I don't want to get stuck turning wrenches on the ground for the next 4 years of my life.


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 30, 2010)

NVRob said:


> Thanks guys. I'm still very unsure about it. I know that military medicine is completely different from the civilian side of it. I would love to get the 68WF6 spot and they make it sound like its doable to switch, or even just a spot on the flight crew, but I don't want to get stuck turning wrenches on the ground for the next 4 years of my life.



what other questions do you have? hopefully either I, Afflixion, or citizensoldierny. Between the 3 of us, we should be able to answer any question you have regarding 68w. 

We want to be able to help you, and give you the best information to you, so you can make an educated choice, this choice will change your future.  I am truly glad that I joined, and I am sure that Afflixion and Citizen feel the same way.


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 30, 2010)

My biggest question is how plausible is it that I could pull off the mos switch from 15t to 68w? I found my asvab scores. GT 135, CL 139, CO 143, EL 142, FA 143, GM 143, MM 143, OF 143, SC 142, ST 141 with an AFQT of 97. 

The unit I am looking at enlisting in is Det 1, 126th Medical Company Air Ambulance out of Stead, NV. The CO out there does not like to fly anyone as a 68W who is under EMT-P or an EMT-I with lots and lots of time in the field. So he wants me to get into the unit as a Tango, and get my EMT-P then request an MOS change, is the way I am understanding it.

What happens if I get 3/4 of the way through medic school and the unit gets deployed? I can't afford to waste that kind of money and then do not want to start medic school over again. 

I'm leaning towards taking the leap and going for it, I just don't want to get stuck turning wrenches for my entire enlistment on the ground, even If I don't end up as a Whiskey I think I would be satisfied with a Crew Chief spot if I got to fly and continue to pursue my EMS career on the civilian side of things.


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## EMT11KDL (Nov 30, 2010)

NVRob said:


> My biggest question is how plausible is it that I could pull off the mos switch from 15t to 68w? I found my asvab scores. GT 135, CL 139, CO 143, EL 142, FA 143, GM 143, MM 143, OF 143, SC 142, ST 141 with an AFQT of 97.
> 
> The unit I am looking at enlisting in is Det 1, 126th Medical Company Air Ambulance out of Stead, NV. The CO out there does not like to fly anyone as a 68W who is under EMT-P or an EMT-I with lots and lots of time in the field. So he wants me to get into the unit as a Tango, and get my EMT-P then request an MOS change, is the way I am understanding it.
> 
> ...



Well first off to even get your f6 rating, you first have to be a qualified 68w for 1 year.  And that is a complete different subject and has been discussed on this forum about a month ago.  

Honestly, talk to your NG Recruiter.  Tell him you want a 68w SLOT and only a 68w slot.  Since you already took your asvab and from what I remember about it, your scores look fine.  Also, when you go to MEPs for your physical and enlistment.  Make sure before you sign that you have the 68w training slot and that you are going to fort sam huston texas (FSHTX).   

If medical is what you want to do, than do medical and only medical.  If you want to be a crew chief, than take the route to do that.  

With the education portion, I cant think of the correct answer of the top of my head, there is a few things that I can think off but I dont want to say them because I am not sure which one is right.  I am sure afflixion will know that answer or citizen will.  Until than, I will try and find out the correct answer for you.


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## citizensoldierny (Nov 30, 2010)

NVROB,
A big +1 on the get it writng. That is  the most basic of rules in the Army, conversations got forgotten, misinterpreted, etc. that can't be said for a hard copy in your hands so if you want a 68W slot, I second that you go for a 68W slot _only_. Who knows what will happen going forward from here if they get a new commander or someone they want in one of those flight slots more. Which leads me to another Army rule, if you have it in writing keep a personal copy and give a copy to someone you can trust parents, brother/sister of the really important stuff, bonus paperwork, DD-214, etc. As for the 15 series MOS's I'm a fan for all the reasons I listed before, plus certain MOS's Avionics, Electronics, Airframe promote fairly quickly , even in the Guard. Not a bad place to be either if you  want to consider WOC/Flight school in the future. 

As for the school issue in re:deployments  you got me, definitely something to consider. Ask your recruiter for what the current rules are. I passed up a goldmine of a stateside deployment last year to complete my EMT-CC. But on the flip side being in the Guard or Reserves can certainly help fund whatever education your considering in your future. The new GI Bill will actually pay you while you go to school in addition to paying for the school itself. Not to mention the schools you'll be able to complete through the military. 

One other thing to consider which I don't think any of us touched on is the military lifestyle and experiences which for the most part I love. Hate giving up weekends I could spend with family, or two weeks during the summers but where else could you learn to drive a 5 ton truck with a trailer in New York city traffic, drive humvees with NVG's, shoot machine guns, get trained in Army combatives, land Nav. etc. you will do plenty of things your civilian friends will never do. And the best part is your fellow soldiers you'll being doing these things with. The unit I deployed with felt like a second dysfunctional family to me:wacko: but I definitely feel I'm better for having served with most of the people in it, and felt a loss when we went our seperate ways. 

A few other intangibles to consider are pride of service, adventure, continuing or starting a family military tradition.


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