# Play Nice



## Justice (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok I know this is an old topic covered in other threads but this is better then posting in an old thread. 

My girlfriend has been an emergency dept nurse for a few years now, she works overnights in one of the busiest and most dangerous cities in the country. I have gone out several times a month with her various coworkers over the years for breakfast or drinks. To this day I have yet to ever hear a nurse or tech at the table talk about a paramedic unless I (the only EMT) brought up a coworker. They never complain about EMS.

I go out with my own coworkers all the time or just watch their facebook. Nothing but disrespect towards nurses. It is so few and far between that you hear a good thing said about a nurse and if something nice is said it tends to be about a nurse that is dating or married to someone in EMS. :sad:

#1 You complain about the nursing home nurse but those places are owned and run by crooks. Understaffed underequipped and never taken care of. Patients that abused their bodies all their life end up there. They treat staff like crap, they can be dirty, some are homeless scamming the system for a place to live. yes they are not great at handling emergency situations but that is not what the do day to day, They did nursing school years ago and dont handle emergencys everyday. thats the point of 911, Oh crap I dont know what to do let me call 911. Meanwhile she has an impossible patient load and cant meet you at the door with a fresh baked pie. EMS gets use to being "all eyes on me" because of going to someones house and having the whole family looking at you and asnwering any questions. GET OVER IT. You have 1 patient they have 50. 

#2 You get to the emergency room and the nurse is being rude. IT'S AN EMERGENCY ROOM remember your past 3 calls you dumped off on that nurse? ya she has to monitor 2 patients waiting to be sent to the ICU, 1 patient that doesnt need an ER that keeps asking for ice and every little thing. You say she is mad at you for bringing her another patient? This happend to my girl last night. EMS brought in back to back trauma's 1 serious car crash and one guy who got drunk and fell down a flight of stairs (they arrived within 20 minutes of eachother) 1 hour later a guy walked in with a gunshot to the abdomen. She had to contact security and law enforcement while running her 3rd trauma in under 2 hours. You know all the attention you show your 1 or maybe 2 patients during your 30 minutes with them? You know all the documentation you have to do without even pushing a med sometimes? Try that when your average patient spends 6-9 hours under your care getting Meds, MRI, X-ray, vitals every 5-30 minutes (They have to track and note those even tho a machine takes it). 

I love EMS but honeslty the reason why EMS doesnt get the respect it deserves is because people in EMS dont show other health care providers the respect they deserve. EMS is rapid response and acute care. Stabalize, keep the pt alive and get to the hospital. Nursing is long term care and the nursing model is about caring for more then just the injury or illness. They try and make the person comfortable and happy when they can.


EMS=Tough job

Nursing=Tough job

Doctor=Tough job

In my opinion most people in EMS who bash nurses are jealous because nurses have higher pay, better hours and in general are more respected. 

That "incompetent nurse" has in general 1-2 years of college just for her prerequisites before she could apply to her 1-2 year nursing school. maybe if medics did the same they wouldnt feel spoken down to.

I'm sorry but I cant stand the superior attitude of some people in EMS and there is no need to put nurses down the way I have seen far to many do. I have only once gotten attitude from a nurse and my next time at the hospital when it had calmed down I went and spoke to her and she apologized saying she got frustrated with the current patient load and some family members that were bugging her every 5 minutes. 

I have been to a few MCI's and seen pure chaos among EMS. Imagine that everyday at an ED. 

Play nice or don't play


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## Remeber343 (Mar 1, 2012)

Justice said:


> #1 You complain about the nursing home nurse but those places are owned and run by crooks. Understaffed underequipped and never taken care of. Patients that abused their bodies all their life end up there. They treat staff like crap, they can be dirty, some are homeless scamming the system for a place to live. yes they are not great at handling emergency situations but that is not what the do day to day, They did nursing school years ago and dont handle emergencys everyday. thats the point of 911, Oh crap I dont know what to do let me call 911. Meanwhile she has an impossible patient load and cant meet you at the door with a fresh baked pie. EMS gets use to being "all eyes on me" because of going to someones house and having the whole family looking at you and asnwering any questions. GET OVER IT. You have 1 patient they have 50.



For one, your statement about nursing homes being for people that have abused their bodies their whole life, is definitely not true.  Most people are there for either rehab, or for failure to thrive and inability to take care of ones self.  For you to generalize that is very harsh.  These nurses knew what they were getting themselves into when applying for a job at a SNF.  Low money, treated like crap, and overworked.  This is no excuse for them to be incompetent.  I am not saying they all are incompetent, but quite a few of them are.  They have CNAs and such to help them during the day, clean, take care of pts, etc.  Mostly, it Isn't their fault.  They find an issue with a pt, call the doctor, then the lazy doctor just sends the pt to the ER because he has better things to do then have pt contact.  I also believe poor phone reports to the doctor attribute to him just sending them to the Er right away. 

For example, we get a 911 tone out at 0200 to a SNF for an 70 y/o female, fell 4 hours prior possible wrist fx.  Arrive to find the pt sleeping in bed.  Wake her up, ask how shes feels, which is fine.  Take a detailed look at the wrist in question, manipulate it, confirm good ROM, good CMS, no deformities or swelling noted, no pain with any of the above.  The nurse still called the doc and had her transport.  I know they are overworked, and I can sympathize with them. But when they call for a transport because they come up with some BS reasons to get a pt out of their hair, I lose all respect for them.


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## MediMike (Mar 1, 2012)

Justice said:


> Ok I know this is an old topic covered in other threads but this is better then posting in an old thread.
> 
> My girlfriend has been an emergency dept nurse for a few years now, she works overnights in one of the busiest and most dangerous cities in the country. I have gone out several times a month with her various coworkers over the years for breakfast or drinks. To this day I have yet to ever hear a nurse or tech at the table talk about a paramedic unless I (the only EMT) brought up a coworker. They never complain about EMS.
> It's nice you like your girlfriend.  It's also very clear that you are as biased as you make others out to be
> ...



Nice PSA though.


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## Justice (Mar 1, 2012)

Remeber343 said:


> For you to generalize that is very harsh.  These nurses knew what they were getting themselves into when applying for a job at a SNF.  *Low money, treated like crap,* and overworked.  This is no excuse for them to be incompetent.
> 
> But when they call for a transport because they come up with some BS reasons to get a pt out of their hair, I lose all respect for them.



#1 the same could be said about EMS

#2 So the nurse is just getting the pt out of their hair while the pt is sleeping in bed? and your saying the nurse doesnt want to be bothered at 2am but isnt that why you are mad about doing the call?


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## Remeber343 (Mar 1, 2012)

Not at all mad about the call. If the pt had something actually wrong, I would have no issue taking them to the ER and making them feel better on the way there. I love my job. I enjoy helping these people. But when a nurse is completely incompetent and can't even do an assessment, then yeah, It grinds on me a little bit. 

I expect that since these people went to school for 2 years, they should have a good grasp on what is going on. Most of the time I swear they are singing peanut butter and jelly time over and over in their heads.


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## truetiger (Mar 1, 2012)

I don't have anything against nurses, just stupid people. It doesn't matter to me if they are an RN, LPN, EMT, Medic, MD, or civilian. Stupid is stupid, no matter the title or occupation.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 1, 2012)

Naw, I don't want to.


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## Justice (Mar 1, 2012)

Mike how am I biased? My girlfriend is an RN yes but I have worked in EMS for 8 years. I see both sides of it and from where I am standing I see EMS looking for an outlet for the shortcomings of their profession.  

I notice you made no comment about me being out with coworkers who bash nurses.


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## MediMike (Mar 1, 2012)

You are generalizing all EMS providers, which shows a bias.  Much as you accuse all EMS providers of being biased against RNs.

If your buddies bash RNs constantly, lecture them.  Work with them to establish a more positive relationship with the local ED staff.  

I see more of a shortcoming with the SNF staff, as well as those ED RNs that are unable to do their job.  Overworked? So are we.  Underpaid? Nope not them, just us.  So if you work off of that premise, it should be the EMS folks who are rude, and not doing their job in a competent fashion since we are 2/2 on that list.  As was mentioned by Remember, when the staff will not perform a simple assessment it shows a definite lack of competence.  And I stand by my statement that if you work in a system where the ED staff is rude on a regular basis, it shows a definite lack of professionalism and character, be it due to personality defects or frustration from being busy.  "Play nice or don't play"? How about "Too hot then get outta the kitchen".


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## MediMike (Mar 1, 2012)

Linuss said:


> Naw, I don't want to.



Classic. Short. Sweet. Succint.


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## Remeber343 (Mar 1, 2012)

Maybe you have never heard nurses bashing EMS because there is nothing for them to bash us about?  haha kidding. I'm not the full of myself. But I can agree with the comment that stupid is stupid. And I've met my fair share of incompetent EMS personnel.


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## Justice (Mar 1, 2012)

Remeber343 said:


> Maybe you have never heard nurses bashing EMS because there is nothing for them to bash us about?  haha kidding. I'm not the full of myself. But I can agree with the comment that stupid is stupid. And I've met my fair share of incompetent EMS personnel.



This is my point.


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## Remeber343 (Mar 1, 2012)

Justice said:


> This is my point.



And this is mine. Obviously I was kidding. Lighten up buddy. If you don't like hearing people complaining about nurses either tell them so and convince them otherwise or find different people to hang out with.


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## Justice (Mar 1, 2012)

My favorite ignorant EMS comment is "A nurse cant do anything without a doc telling her to"

Neither can a medic.  medic pushes medication #1 because Doctor Howdy says when you have this B/P this rate and the pt is presenting like this push medication #1 

 Only difference is Medic works for 1 doctor overseeing med control while a nurse works for many different doctors who can choose to treat the same thing different ways. 

"A nurse cant drop a tube and a medic can" 

Any Monkey can drop a tube. I'm only an EMT an I have dropped more then my share while I was in the Army.

You dont make yourself look good by trying to make the other guy look bad.


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## Farmer2DO (Mar 1, 2012)

truetiger said:


> I don't have anything against nurses, just stupid people. It doesn't matter to me if they are an RN, LPN, EMT, Medic, MD, or civilian. Stupid is stupid, no matter the title or occupation.



I agree with you.  But sometimes they're not stupid, they're lazy.  And anyone can be lazy.  Often times, that's worse.



MediMike said:


> You are generalizing all EMS providers, which shows a bias.  Much as you accuse all EMS providers of being biased against RNs.



Yup.  What he's railing against, he's doing himself.



Justice said:


> My favorite ignorant EMS comment is "A nurse cant do anything without a doc telling her to"
> 
> Neither can a medic.  medic pushes medication #1 because Doctor Howdy says when you have this B/P this rate and the pt is presenting like this push medication #1
> 
> ...



What this means is that different jobs have different job descriptions, different training, different education, and different expectations.  Most nurses don't intubate, but I don't expect them to.  Few paramedics draw ABGs, place NG tubes, place foleys, and are exposed to the spectrum of medications that nurses are on a daily basis.  Neither one of those means that either one is not competent; on the contrary, they are somewhat specialized, and should be good at their field.  

I know many nurses that I have a TON of respect for, that I would willingly place the care of my family into any day.  Same goes for doctors and midlevels.  But there are also the ones that I wouldn't.  Same applies to EMS.  Everyone has bad days; I get that.  If you are willing to act like a human being after a bad encounter, we'll be fine.  But if you act like a D-bag just because I brought a patient to your ED, then get another job.  The nurse doesn't like running back to back to back traumas?  Don't work at a trauma center.  The nurse doesn't like taking care of 50 patients?  Don't work at a SNF.  I get that they have a big load; but if they call me, they really need to be prepared to tell me why I'm there, and they need to have done an assessment of some kind.  Don't run and hide when we get there, don't give me attitude because I'm asking questions, and don't pull the "He's not my patient/I'm covering for someone/I just started my shift" crap.  It's crappy patient care and it doesn't fly.

Most of my EMS co-workers work hard, are competent and professional and treat other professions with respect.  Don't paint us all with the same brush.


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## Zeroo (Mar 1, 2012)

I knew there was a butting of heads with medics and nurses.... I didn't know it was this bad.


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## the_negro_puppy (Mar 1, 2012)

In this thread, one person using personal experiences an anecdotes to generalise multiple professions and push his opinion.








There will always be *****ing, rivalry and friction between any professions working closely together/ reliant on each other. Instead of trying to preach here just accept it as a fact of life and move on. Just because you've never heard nurses *****ing about EMS doesn't mean that it doesn't happen just as much as EMS ---> Nurse.






Run away Simba, run far away from these forums and never return.


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## ATrain (Mar 1, 2012)

the_negro_puppy said:


> In this thread, one person using personal experiences an anecdotes to generalise multiple professions and push his opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great point, plus style points for the of pictures.  A+ post, my man.


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## Bullets (Mar 1, 2012)

This is my thing with nurses giving EMS a hard time...You signed up for this bologna. You work at a hospital, which means you get to deal with peoples BS "Medical" problems. If you thought this would be different, then your either an idiot, or clueless, which is basically an idiot. I understand you are swamped, but as an EMS unit who bought everyone your dealing with here, we deal with it to.

Also, this goes for EMS who complain about the workload. EMTs and medics alike. You knew what you were getting youself into, or should have know. Either your getting paid, which mean shut and do your job, or you are a volunteer, which means no one is pointing a gun at your head to do this. If you want better hours with little work, go be a firefighter.


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## Shishkabob (Mar 1, 2012)

Hakuna matata.


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## Sasha (Mar 1, 2012)

Actually... Nursing home nurses are one of the higher paid nurses because no one wants to do that job. 

Being run by crooks doesn't excuse poor care and bad attitudes. My company is cheap and sometimes dishonest but i would never scream at or degrade my patients like I've witnessed nursing home nurses do. I would also never leave a patient sitting in filth like I've witnessed a nursing home nurse do. Patients are dirty? Because they can't clean themselves and the staff isn't helping them!!!

I don't buy the "they have too many patients so they don't know their patient" BS. I have had CNAs who are more knowledgeable than the LPNs and they've got tons of patients too. I also don't buy the "i just got on" "I'm never on this hall." 

Story for you. We arrived to take a patient to radiation. Went to get report from nurse. She told me this is the first time she had the patient and she didn't know anything about her. Nada. Every question I asked "i don't know" 

Patient asks if we want her to walk out to the stretcher, we tell her we would bring it in closer. She stands, her legs go out. We guide her down to the floor and I send my partner to get staff. 

Nurse comes in shrieking that you should never trust the patient you should ask us before you try to walk them we would have told you she couldn't! 

I asked her: you couldn't tell me a single thing about her, would you have even known if she could? She looked sheepish and told me that she knew she couldn't walk and that she says she can. 

Next week I get the patient again. Same nurse. She tells me its her first time on this hall and she doesn't know anything about the patient. I told her wow! Your twin had her last week when she ended up on the floor, then, can you ask her to fill out my pcs?

I have taken patients to nursing homes who cry the entire way because they receive such horrid care. 

Granted there are great nursing homes and great nursing home staff but they're the exception and not the rule and I am delighted when I meet them.


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## Sasha (Mar 1, 2012)

What frustrates me to no end is going to pick up a patient and I can't get report because the nurse is on lunch. 

She's on freaking lunch? Are you kidding me!?! Guess what? My partner and I have been starving all morning because we are busting our butts with calls. Now we are waiting 20 minutes for someone to go find the nurse and bring her back to do HER JOB. That 20 minutes may make us late to our next call or it could have been the 20 minutes we would of had to get lunch or even something to drink. 

And my last pet peeve, bringing in a patient and staff shrieks at us about not getting report. And instead of letting me give report they b..ch and moan about not getting report.


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## tnoye1337 (Mar 1, 2012)

In my opinion, all three professions are equally important, but we get jealous of each other because the other profession has an advantage. It's just stupid.


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## Remeber343 (Mar 1, 2012)

tnoye1337 said:


> In my opinion, all three professions are equally important, but we get jealous of each other because the other profession has an advantage. It's just stupid.



I would have to disagree. I know for at least me and my coworkers, it's not jealousy. It's us not tolerating incompetence.


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## Veneficus (Mar 1, 2012)

Remeber343 said:


> I would have to disagree. I know for at least me and my coworkers, it's not jealousy. It's us not tolerating incompetence.



That is a rather harsh statement I think.


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## Remeber343 (Mar 1, 2012)

Harsh?  Perhaps. But honest. And I'm not generalizing. There are a lot of magnificent nurses out there that go out of their way for us. But they never get recognition, you only hear about the bad ones.


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## tnoye1337 (Mar 1, 2012)

Remeber343 said:


> I would have to disagree. I know for at least me and my coworkers, it's not jealousy. It's us not tolerating incompetence.



Yes a lot of them are incompetent, but do you want to do that job? I certainly don't. I'm all for letting them do what they do, because at the end of the day they're cleaning butts and I'm not.


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## VCEMT (Mar 1, 2012)

Justice said:


> In my opinion most people in EMS who bash nurses are jealous because nurses have higher pay, better hours and in general are more respected.



:rofl: I'm jealous that I don't get paid to wipe dirty ***.:rofl: Yes, very jealous.:rofl: Very.:rofl: Last I heard, not one male nurse I know, has women coming out of nowhere and give them their number. Nor get paid to sleep, walk around the beach, and workout.


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## medichopeful (Mar 1, 2012)

VCEMT said:


> :rofl: I'm jealous that I don't get paid to wipe dirty ***.:rofl: Yes, very jealous.:rofl: Very.:rofl: Last I heard, not one male nurse I know, has women coming out of nowhere and give them their number. Nor get paid to sleep, walk around the beach, and workout.



There's more to being a nurse than wiping ***


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## tnoye1337 (Mar 1, 2012)

medichopeful said:


> There's more to being a nurse than wiping ***



They always seem to get stuck with those kinds of duties though


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## STXmedic (Mar 1, 2012)

tnoye1337 said:


> They always seem to get stuck with those kinds of duties though



Heh... I see what you did there...


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## medichopeful (Mar 1, 2012)

tnoye1337 said:


> They always seem to get stuck with those kinds of duties though



I as well see what you did there 

I won't argue it's part of the job, but there's definitely more to it than just that!


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## epipusher (Mar 1, 2012)

These are the type of threads I miss not getting in a first reply. Oh well I'll keep trying. 

As far as a nurse being more respected or better educated due to the amount of education required? I have several co-workers now that have obtained their RN in less than a year, one in approx. 8 months, via the online route. Two of them work in the 5th busiest er in the country. That part of the argument, is therefore, invalid.


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## mycrofft (Mar 1, 2012)

Been both, retired, spend my time throwing raw meat into EMTLIFE and watching the turmoil. 

When I worked convalescent (three short stints) we were the worst paid because we were mostly part time, short-term employees, and many of us were outcasts from other jobs. That said, a good convalescent nurse, or interfacility EMT or nursing home tech or whatever, is a saint. I hope they and good home care givers do get their due fiscally and beneficialy. 

I hope the "Who shot John" about this subject (above posts) is mostly in jest.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Mar 1, 2012)

Justice said:


> #1 You complain about the nursing home nurse but those places are owned and run by crooks. Understaffed underequipped and never taken care of. Patients that abused their bodies all their life end up there. They treat staff like crap, they can be dirty, some are homeless scamming the system for a place to live. yes they are not great at handling emergency situations but that is not what the do day to day, They did nursing school years ago and dont handle emergencys everyday. thats the point of 911, Oh crap I dont know what to do let me call 911.
> 
> Perfectly Legit. Emergencies are not your forte so you call for someone else whose expertise is in handling emergency care.
> 
> ...



3char min


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## emt seeking first job (Mar 4, 2012)

Justice said:


> Ok I know this is an old topic covered in other threads but this is better then posting in an old thread.
> 
> My girlfriend has been an emergency dept nurse for a few years now, she works overnights in one of the busiest and most dangerous cities in the country. I have gone out several times a month with her various coworkers over the years for breakfast or drinks. To this day I have yet to ever hear a nurse or tech at the table talk about a paramedic unless I (the only EMT) brought up a coworker. They never complain about EMS.
> 
> ...





TELL YOUR GIRLFRIEND TO BECOME A RAPPER. sHE HAS NO HURT.


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## STXmedic (Mar 4, 2012)

Ibtl


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## Shishkabob (Mar 4, 2012)

Justice said:


> You have 1 patient they have 50.



I've never heard of a nurse in the United States having 50 patients on any normal occurrence (and no, traige nurse in waiting room doesn't count).  Infact, more than 5 is rare, and even then if any one of them is truly critical, they never have more than 1.  (Some ICUs allow two, but you're not talking about ICUs, you've limited it to ERs)   However, I HAVE heard of, and done, my fair share of MCIs, with multiple fatalites and multiple critical patients, with limited resources.  I've been the lone Paramedic, with just an EMT and some volly firefighters, on scene of multiple critical patients.  

Plus, it's the nature of the beast.  If every call I went on had 3 patients, guess what?  Every call I'd go on would have 3 patients!  It doesn't take a mathmetician to realize when one person calls for help... it's one person calling for help.  There aren't depots we pick patients up in, 10 at a time, to take care of.  Hospitals are where sick people congregate, hence, there are more sick people.




You REALLY don't want to go there, broseph.  





> That "incompetent nurse" has in general 1-2 years of college just for her prerequisites before she could apply to her 1-2 year nursing school. maybe if medics did the same they wouldnt feel spoken down to.



Oh, cool, so doing spreadsheets on a computer makes you better at patient care?  I did not know that.


I once had a new-grad RN try that card on me.  She got embarrassed rather quickly by her limited knowledge.  You don't know what other education I have aside from my Paramedic license.  You don't know if I have a BS in biology.  You don't know if I have an AA in Liberal Arts.  Quit assuming as much.  You look foolish.


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## usalsfyre (Mar 4, 2012)

Linuss said:


> I've never heard of a nurse in the United States having 50 patients on any normal occurrence



Not at all uncommon in the LTC setting....


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## Shishkabob (Mar 4, 2012)

usalsfyre said:


> Not at all uncommon in the LTC setting....



Not ever 50 from what I've seen.  And supervisory RNs over LVNs don't count, as they aren't the ones solely responsible for patient care.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Mar 4, 2012)

Linuss said:


> I've never heard of a nurse in the United States having 50 patients on any normal occurrence (and no, traige nurse in waiting room doesn't count).  Infact, more than 5 is rare, and even then if any one of them is truly critical, they never have more than 1.  (Some ICUs allow two, but you're not talking about ICUs, you've limited it to ERs)   However, I HAVE heard of, and done, my fair share of MCIs, with multiple fatalites and multiple critical patients, with limited resources.  I've been the lone Paramedic, with just an EMT and some volly firefighters, on scene of multiple critical patients.
> 
> Plus, it's the nature of the beast.  If every call I went on had 3 patients, guess what?  Every call I'd go on would have 3 patients!  It doesn't take a mathmetician to realize when one person calls for help... it's one person calling for help.  There aren't depots we pick patients up in, 10 at a time, to take care of.  Hospitals are where sick people congregate, hence, there are more sick people.
> 
> ...



Bravo my good sir





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## tnoye1337 (Mar 4, 2012)

Corky said:


> Bravo my good sir
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is a creepy *** smiley...


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## Bullets (Mar 4, 2012)

Anyone want to come and ride with me in NJ this summer, they can experience what its like to operate out of a 6x6 john deer at a music festival. Bamboozle, Warped Tour, all in my area. See how well a provider, emt, nurse or doc, does when they have 8-10 patients presenting simultaneously because they all got hurt in a mosh pit.

Last summer i had a guy break his ankle, and then i got flooded, i ended up transporting 4 people in my gator, with my partner sitting on the hood bagging an open head trauma. and you are in a giant parking lot, so trying ti guide additional resources to your location without any landmarks, "50 yards south of the giant inflatable Monster Can" less then easy

So when you say they have 50 patients, which i still dont believe, they are chronic patients, not acute injuries all requiring your best medicine. And then giving a report to a EMS PHD and keeping 4 patients worth of history scribbled on the back of a notepad straight


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## epipusher (Mar 4, 2012)

No rebuttal from justice??


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## firetender (Mar 4, 2012)

Bullets said:


> So when you say they have 50 patients, which i still dont believe, they are chronic patients, not acute injuries all requiring your best medicine.


 
Many Nursing Homes (SNFs) are huge machines handling tons of flesh in the most efficient ways possible. Most of these patients are about maintenance and the way maintenance works these days is maintenance by pharmaceuticals.

Enter the Nurse.

I started working Nursing Homes in the 1970's. One wing, 50 patients (40 women, 10 men), 5 Nurse's Aides and one orderly. And that was one of the finer places! I handled all the hands on for all the males. Each Aide had ten patients. Most were some forms of CVA. Oh, I forgot to mention, ONE RN!

What did she do? (See: *Why SNF Nurses are zombies*.) She (no men then) pushed pills. ALL day. 

I honestly can't imagine that that has gotten any better because most SNFs are still all about maintenance of the not-quite-dead-who-hang-on-thanks-to-meds, 80% of whom are women.

Hands-on care is delivered by poorly trained Aides and for the most part, only disasters take the RNs out of their drug-related duties. There are always a few needing more intense care, but for the most part, that is her role; as manager and pill pusher.

I'm not saying it's like this everywhere, but I can attest these proportions (50 pts. to one RN)are not uncommon (through three states in my time) and perhaps much more common than you would guess. The sad part (for me, anyhow) is that my generation, the Baby Boomers will be making those proportions worse!


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## Remeber343 (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree, they do have quite the work load. But im going to fall back on my previous statements. They knew what they were getting into and have no excuses. 

I knew what I got into prior to my job. I might get mandatoried, I might not get off on time. I may be up all night.  It's the way it goes.


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 5, 2012)

Remeber343 said:


> This is where the fun starts. Nurse asks what BP We obtained, 124/74, hr 60. RN stated "oh good i checked it 10 mins ago and it was 174/100, it's much better now. She seems pretty anxious when I took it". I smiled and nodded. Really?  You call me for poss internal bleeding, and you think a 50 point drop is okay?



Dude you haven't heard? Screw beta blockers for patients having a hypertensive crisis...just bleed 'em out a little bit to lose some volume and drop that pressure


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## bigbaldguy (Mar 5, 2012)

In the nursing home my dad was in nurses didn't even come out of the office very often they were too busy doing paper work. Medications were delivered by medication techs who at least in an few instances had less knowledge of the medications they were handing out than I did. On one instance I found a tramadol on the floor of my dads room that no one seemed able to account for. This was one one of the best nursing homes in town mind you.


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## EFDUnit823 (Mar 5, 2012)

Justice said:


> Mike how am I biased? My girlfriend is an RN yes but I have worked in EMS for 8 years. I see both sides of it and from where I am standing I see EMS looking for an outlet for the shortcomings of their profession.
> 
> I notice you made no comment about me being out with coworkers who bash nurses.



So, you take your personal experiences and generalize it across the board? 
Well sir, while you hear it from your girlfriend, I work for a hospital owned ambulance service…which places me as an Emergency Department employee when not on the ambulance. Though I will say, not all nurses are created equal and several I work with respect EMS personnel, however, most seem to think EMS are equivalent to CNAs regardless of EMT level (B/I/P). As for their patient load, I have zero sympathy…we (EMS) take patient loads here as well and it is not as hard as many nurses claim. Charting is nothing but couple sentence reports, and the ED is a lot like riding the bus…10% (or less) are “real” emergencies. 

Plus, there are many luxuries found in the ED that you will not find on the bus. In a hospital, with a trauma alert or code you will find several specialties taking care of the patient with the nurse (or nurses) following the orders given by the doctor. In the field, what do we have?

Now, do not get me wrong, I am not going to bash Nursing as a whole nor do I think EMS is superior to Nursing. However, it is NOT inferior, especially when comparing an ALS Emergency Medicine Nurse to EMS personnel! But, I am gonna respectfully call :censored: on your claim that it is primarily jealous EMS personnel bashing nurses that fuels the whole EMS vs. Nursing.

With all that said, I do think that a more positive and productive relationship really should be built between Nursing and EMS. It SHOULD be about best patient care everyone can provide along with continuity of treatment. Maybe I am just idealistic!
:usa:


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## Justice (Mar 6, 2012)

Laptop crashed. I know all of you missed me.

Read all the comments. I am starting to see why EMS is so angry towards nurses. Little to no understanding of anything outside of EMS with the exception of the people that have moved beyond.

This weekend at work my coworkers spent hours bashing an ER Doc that took a pt with a C1 fracture off a backboard. With zero understanding of why the doctor did this they bashed the doc for hours and posted it all over Facebook Saying the Doctor was an idiot and needed to be fired.

Do you know why the doctor did this? Its actually pretty basic knowledge but EMS knowing only that spine injuries equal backboard had no understanding of why he would do this.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

This is what upsets me. EMT does not = God
Stop thinking you know everything (those that act like this)


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## Justice (Mar 6, 2012)

Sasha said:


> What frustrates me to no end is going to pick up a patient and I can't get report because the nurse is on lunch.
> 
> She's on freaking lunch? Are you kidding me!?! Guess what? My partner and I have been starving all morning because we are busting our butts with calls. Now we are waiting 20 minutes for someone to go find the nurse and bring her back to do HER JOB. That 20 minutes may make us late to our next call or it could have been the 20 minutes we would of had to get lunch or even something to drink. .



By Law the nurse has to take lunch and sometimes this is controlled by the charge nurse. Get over this quick.


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## the_negro_puppy (Mar 6, 2012)

Justice said:


> Laptop crashed. I know all of you missed me.
> 
> Read all the comments. I am starting to see why EMS is so angry towards nurses. Little to no understanding of anything outside of EMS with the exception of the people that have moved beyond.
> 
> ...



Are you going to respond to any of the criticisms directed at you or are you just going to post more anecdotes and then have your laptop crash for another week?


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## Justice (Mar 6, 2012)

why bother responding? Some people already know there way of thinking is the only way


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 6, 2012)

Justice said:


> why bother responding? Some people already know there way of thinking is the only way



And some people post it. <_<


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## Justice (Mar 6, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> And some people post it. <_<



I try and see things from both sides. Several people in this thread also tried to do that. The comments of incompetant nurses Is pure ignorance. 

I know a great medic that brought in a vomitting patient last week on his last call 2 hours past his out time. Never even bothered to put the patient on a monitor. I wasnt there and I dont know why he wouldnt do this but when I was at the hospital after my next call, staff was sending that pt to the ICU. 10 minutes after the Medic brought her in the pt coded. Do I bash this medic? Do I say i am tried of stupid medics? Nope this is a good medic who made a mistake a very serious one but the Charge nurse at the hospital spoke to the family to make sure this medic wouldnt have the family coming after him. 

medicine is an ever evolving PRACTICE and no 2 situations are alike. Stop demeaning another profession just because you dont agree with that persons actions. None of us are perfect and I am sure more then a few times a Doc, Nurse or fellow EMT looked at you with that WTF is wrong with you face. Difference is most people are willing to look past the minor incident not carry it and keep the fire of hate burning for years. 

Nobody is perfect and if you think you never make mistakes or say or do something stupid then you might be the biggest f up out there


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 6, 2012)

My comment was directed towards your stated post of not responding to the criticism you received in this thread.  Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Justice (Mar 6, 2012)

I know, Sorry i kinda went off on an unexpected rant forgetting I had qouted you


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## Sasha (Mar 7, 2012)

Justice said:


> By Law the nurse has to take lunch and sometimes this is controlled by the charge nurse. Get over this quick.



I require a report before I take a patient anywhere. 

And if you have a patient to turn care over on, you have no business going on lunch. 

Lunch is not required by law for adults. At least in my state, evidenced by some amazing and busy nurses I know who often work through lunch. And the fact we don't get lunch.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 7, 2012)

There are exceptions to mandatory lunch breaks, one of which is the employee not taking one because they choose not to.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Mar 7, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> There are exceptions to mandatory lunch breaks, one of which is the employee not taking one because they choose not to.



From someone who has to deal with an inabilty to get employees out to lunch in a timely manner: yes, they can refuse or (at least in CA) sign away their right to a lunch based on the needs of the business that day.  They can not however sign away the two 15 min breaks in an 8 hour day and can actually be forced to take them.


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 7, 2012)

Justice said:


> I try and see things from both sides. Several people in this thread also tried to do that. The comments of incompetant nurses Is pure ignorance.



Why?

I'm too lazy to go back and look through and see if I posted my input in this thread.

If I did, I'll repeat myself: Both professions have competent and incompetent providers. I've met some amazing nurses along with some nurses that are downright idiots. Same goes for medics, some are brilliant and some are idiots. 

Honestly I have learned more from my paramedic partners than I have from the nurses who precept me. I'm tired of hearing "the doctor ordered it" as an answer to my question. The medics take the time to sit down and explain things. I'm not saying nurses don't, plenty of nurses have sat around and explained/discussed things with me just like plenty of nurses have totally blown off my questions or given me the above answer when they were supposed to be the person "teaching" me.  I'm not above doing the crappy or busy-work jobs in the ER when I'm a student there but when it comes down to it I'm a student, not a "go-fer".


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