# Online EMT classes



## rescue13 (Jan 29, 2012)

Does anyone have any opinions on these EMT classes that are offered online. Is this as good as actually going to class? I have a couple of friends that are taking this online with a company called Percom out of Texas but we are located in Tennessee.


----------



## technocardy (Jan 29, 2012)

rescue13 said:


> Does anyone have any opinions on these EMT classes that are offered online. Is this as good as actually going to class? I have a couple of friends that are taking this online with a company called Percom out of Texas but we are located in Tennessee.



There are a few things I can see wrong with an online EMT course.

First, and foremost is you get absolutely ZERO practical experience when doing an online class. And when it comes to something technical, is just not a good idea. Sure, you can learn how to size up and put in an OPA, or measure and apply a c-collar but unless you actually get to do it, over and over and get the "fumble :censored::censored::censored::censored:" stage outta the way, then you'll be a mess come state exams, and actual real life calls. Now I'm sure there are set weekends where you go in and do skills stations. And if that is in fact the case then it might not be too bad, or is it...

The second thing that comes to mind when talking about an online EMT class it homework, and questions. It's a tad bit harder to have class discussions, and work questions/problems out when you you are all in front of a screen at different times of the day. During my EMT-A class, one of the things we did a lot of, was have class discussions about random things that we might not all agree on. Like, for instance, why hypersensitivity is a "contraindication" for Epi in an anaphylaxsis call. But as we all talked it out, and the teacher sat there listening to make sure we were on the right track, we all realized it's more of a relative contra, and not an absolute contra.

I guess the third issue I have with an online EMT class is there is no sense of family, in that it's harder to get together, go out to Boston Pizza or where ever and have a study session.

Those are just my opinions, and I'm definitely way more of a hands on, talk it out in a group learner than a read it in an assignment and have learned it!


----------



## rescue13 (Jan 29, 2012)

I totally agree. I am currently in EMT IV second semester at a community college in Tn. our entire second semester is hands on with the exception of Fisdap exams and clinical.


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 29, 2012)

technocardy said:


> There are a few things I can see wrong with an online EMT course.
> 
> First, and foremost is you get absolutely ZERO practical experience when doing an online class. And when it comes to something technical, is just not a good idea. Sure, you can learn how to size up and put in an OPA, or measure and apply a c-collar but unless you actually get to do it, over and over and get the "fumble :censored::censored::censored::censored:" stage outta the way, then you'll be a mess come state exams, and actual real life calls. Now I'm sure there are set weekends where you go in and do skills stations. And if that is in fact the case then it might not be too bad, or is it...


I can't imagine an EMT or paramedic program without any practical time. Now having the diadiactic be online and the students come in for a week or so for the psychomotor I could see working. A lot of medical students don't go to lecture unless attendance is enforced, opting instead to watch the lecture recording online, normally at an increased speed. Personally, give me a halfway decently written text book(s) or primer over a lecture any day. 



> The second thing that comes to mind when talking about an online EMT class it homework, and questions. It's a tad bit harder to have class discussions, and work questions/problems out when you you are all in front of a screen at different times of the day. During my EMT-A class, one of the things we did a lot of, was have class discussions about random things that we might not all agree on. Like, for instance, why hypersensitivity is a "contraindication" for Epi in an anaphylaxsis call. But as we all talked it out, and the teacher sat there listening to make sure we were on the right track, we all realized it's more of a relative contra, and not an absolute contra.



In my experience, class discussions at an introduction level is rather useless. If students are learning the material for the first time, you aren't going to see any profound discussions on the use of spinal immobilization or supplemental oxygen therapy. The students are simply not at that level yet. 

Also, epi is contraindicated in hypersensitivity, but not anaphylaxis? Are we not realizing that anaphylaxis is, by definition, a type I hypersensitivity? Also, is it a relative contraindication, or just not not indicated? Similarly, is this a discussion about allergic reactions vs intolerance?  


> I guess the third issue I have with an online EMT class is there is no sense of family, in that it's harder to get together, go out to Boston Pizza or where ever and have a study session.



I have no qualms about hanging out, but not being a group study person, you aren't going to see me in a study group, especially for an EMT class.


----------



## technocardy (Jan 29, 2012)

> Also, epi is contraindicated in hypersensitivity, but not anaphylaxis? Are we not realizing that anaphylaxis is, by definition, a type I hypersensitivity? Also, is it a relative contraindication, or just not not indicated? Similarly, is this a discussion about allergic reactions vs intolerance?



Sorry. I didn't make myself clear there. So, let me clarify.

If someone is having an anaphylactic reaction, and requires epi, under our contraindications if they also have hypersensitivity to epi it is therefore ruled out and cannot be given.

Yes I know, it makes NO sense. That's why I used the example, if someone was in full blown anaphylaxsis and required epi to essentially save their life, but they had some hypersensitivity to it (it being Epi) we aren't allowed to give it, as it is now contraindicated. I don't know why that is in the books, and hence why I used that as an example for discussion to work out an issue. 

Hope this helps clarify!


----------



## JPINFV (Jan 29, 2012)

Epinephrine is a hormone. While I can't discount the possibility of being allergic to what ever it is suspended in, you can't be allergic to epinephrine itself. Also many "allergies" are simply side effects, not true allergic reactions.


----------



## technocardy (Jan 29, 2012)

JPINFV said:


> Epinephrine is a hormone. While I can't discount the possibility of being allergic to what ever it is suspended in, you can't be allergic to epinephrine itself. Also many "allergies" are simply side effects, not true allergic reactions.



I know... and that is why it's not a true contraindication but yet, is in our books as one. And that is why I used it in the example like I did, where a group discussion may have benefited some of the class who may not have grasped that right away.


----------



## Mountain Res-Q (Jan 30, 2012)

The local college's EMS program was run by the same person for over 15 years.  It was all classroom.  He was, IMHO, a real teacher; among the 3 best instructors at any academic level I have ever known.  He taught you what you needed to know and far more, at the First Responder, EMT, or Paramedic Level.  As a student you couldn't fake it.  He made the guarantee that if you made it past the half way point YOU WOULD PASS NATIONAL AND STATE TESTING ON THE FIRST TRY!  Historically, 1/3 dropped out in he first few weeks, but in all his time only one student finished the class but finished testing.  I have worked with many people who were taught by him and it is clear that they know their stuff.  He took the time and was hand on.  You learned, there was no doubt.

Obviously not all instructors are of the same quality, but my point is this: you miss out on this personalized instruction, real experience, and hands-on time with any amount of on-line teaching.  You suffer as a student when this shortcut is taken and you are likely to miss something.  In turn, it is any patient you ever meet that suffers.

Keeping the above in mind, here is more proof, which may be highly subjective, but is reason for being against online instruction for most subjects, but especially medical of ANT KIND:

When the above instructor retired he was replaced by someone who immediately went to hybrid instruction for both First Responder and EMT.  For First Responder is semester-long online instruction and they meet once every other week for 3 hours for review and skills.  For EMT it is the same, only they meet for 3 hours every week.  

With the prior instructor the class would start with about 30 and end with about 20, all of whom passed the class and state/national testing.  (He was investigated for this by the state; but he was just a good instructor.)  The first semester of online, only 6 of 30 passed the class, and only 2 of those 6 passed state/national testing.  That stat has not changed dramatically in the last 5 years.  Talking to student who have failed and passed, the comments are the same: They were taught very little.  Watching videos or power points online was as informative as reading a book.  Discussions online were difficult.  It takes time to get questions answered.  Skills were never understood.  Putting all the pieces together was hard.  Etc...

Simply put, you can not ignore the numbers.  While I agree that students should put forth considerable effort, the system for teaching must be conducive to actually teaching.  I personally know many recent students and these are not dumb people.  One of them was an EMT for 10 years prior and let it lapse when she got her Psychology Degree and worked for Behavioral Health.  She was going to get her EMT again while waiting to enter the Paramedic Program she had been accepted to.  She was one of the two who passed and based only on 10 years of past experience.  

When working as a proctor for the First Responder and EMT classes every semester, I AM SHOCKED!!!  There are huge gaps in their knowledge and I frequently fail them.  The instructor is a 30 year veteran MICN and Medic; she knows her stuff and teaches well... but the online method simply doesn't work for this material.  Personally, I have experienced this.  Several semesters ago I decided to retake the 3 unit Basic Cardiology Class as a refresher.  It had previously been a classroom course but was not entirely online.  I can say this: without prior training and experience, I wouldn't have learned a thing.  The only people to pass had that experience; all the new EMTs dropped out.  Online was a joke.

Maybe online can be done well, but in my experience online should be used for some refresher classes ONLY.  Too much is lost from a lack of hands-on, personal, in the class instruction...

NOTE:  After much complaints and criticism, I hear that the First Responder class will no longer be online next semester and the EMT course may be going the same way very fast... numbers don't lie...


----------



## bstone (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh wow a thread about online EMT/medic school. We've never discussed this before!


----------



## medic417 (Jan 30, 2012)

bstone said:


> Oh wow a thread about online EMT/medic school. We've never discussed this before!



That and we have never posted about the high pass rate Percom has. Guess search function broke again.


----------



## rescue13 (Jan 30, 2012)

Sorry medic417! Didn't mean to step on your privates!!!!


----------



## medic417 (Jan 30, 2012)

rescue13 said:


> Sorry medic417! Didn't mean to step on your privates!!!!



Excuse me? Watch the personal attacks. As you can see by my post as well as others you can search and find what you seek.  Search Percom and you will find a recent discussion.  Then call Jane and discuss with her about any questions.


----------



## rescue13 (Jan 30, 2012)

Hey partner you chimed in on my discussion. Your sarcisim is not wanted or needed by any of us.


----------



## 8jimi8 (Jan 30, 2012)

rescue13 said:


> Does anyone have any opinions on these EMT classes that are offered online. Is this as good as actually going to class? I have a couple of friends that are taking this online with a company called Percom out of Texas but we are located in Tennessee.



I'm finishing up through Percom.  I don't suggest it for the unmotivated.


----------



## 8jimi8 (Jan 30, 2012)

technocardy said:


> There are a few things I can see wrong with an online EMT course.
> 
> First, and foremost is you get absolutely ZERO practical experience when doing an online class. And when it comes to something technical, is just not a good idea. Sure, you can learn how to size up and put in an OPA, or measure and apply a c-collar but unless you actually get to do it, over and over and get the "fumble :censored::censored::censored::censored:" stage outta the way, then you'll be a mess come state exams, and actual real life calls. Now I'm sure there are set weekends where you go in and do skills stations. And if that is in fact the case then it might not be too bad, or is it...
> 
> ...


I have personally watched a student be dismissed from checkoff testing for being unprepared to demonstrate competence.  Argue all You want I'd put any Graduated Percom student up against whatever academy or university You could suggest. Except maybe a special forces medic program. Anyone with the willpower to man up to Percom will be a thoroughly informed practitioner.  The course content evolves DAILY.


----------



## technocardy (Jan 30, 2012)

8jimi8 said:


> I have personally watched a student be dismissed from checkoff testing for being unprepared to demonstrate competence.  Argue all You want I'd put any Graduated Percom student up against whatever academy or university You could suggest. Except maybe a special forces medic program. Anyone with the willpower to man up to Percom will be a thoroughly informed practitioner.  The course content evolves DAILY.



To each his own. I personally wouldn't do well in an online learning environment, but hey if you do then that's perfect for you. I don't know which school would put students through to a final exam where they can't pass but the school I went too for EMT-A is a damn good school. All students are beyond prepared to not only pass final exams, but also provincial exams. I guess it all depends on the person, and the school.


----------



## medic417 (Jan 30, 2012)

rescue13 said:


> Hey partner you chimed in on my discussion. Your sarcisim is not wanted or needed by any of us.



Real professional of you. Have a great day.


----------



## chardwan (Jan 30, 2012)

*online courses*

Online courses are not for everyone. I have some experience taking some nursing courses online...while I did well with them, many of my classmates liked the classroom versions better.


----------



## 8jimi8 (Jan 30, 2012)

technocardy said:


> To each his own. I personally wouldn't do well in an online learning environment, but hey if you do then that's perfect for you. I don't know which school would put students through to a final exam where they can't pass but the school I went too for EMT-A is a damn good school. All students are beyond prepared to not only pass final exams, but also provincial exams. I guess it all depends on the person, and the school.



Check off testing. E.g.  Show up to prove you are ready to begin clinicals and prove you are ready to demonstrate psychomotor for NR.  The point being not the final test.


----------



## technocardy (Jan 30, 2012)

8jimi8 said:


> Check off testing. E.g.  Show up to prove you are ready to begin clinicals and prove you are ready to demonstrate psychomotor for NR.  The point being not the final test.



Ah! Misread ya there! My apologies.


----------



## 8jimi8 (Jan 30, 2012)

No worries, Friend


----------

