# Stair Chairs



## Shepard (Jan 18, 2013)

For some ungodly reason my company has decided to not equip the rigs with stair chairs. We do primarily BLS IFT and we have a few 911 rigs and run CCT as well. However. We've been expanding into a county with houses that ALL have stairs. In fact, in one city every home has a minimum of 13 steps. So. Clearly we need stair chairs. We currently have 4 units operating in the area snowed need to equip those 4 rigs. These need to be more cost effective than Strykers because the owner has already been resistant to them. Anyone use anything else that they've had success with?


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 18, 2013)

There are a bunch of choices, from the older aluminum frame fold ups to the super duper crawler tracked Ferno and Stryker models. I started using the frame chairs and went to Strykers a few years ago. I never looked back. Neither did my back.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 18, 2013)

Strykers are where it's at but then again I've never used anything different. 

Might be worth looking at used options too.

A couple employees' backs will wind up being more expensive than 4 nice stair chairs.


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## Tigger (Jan 18, 2013)

We have Ferno non tracked ones. I've heard that tracks are not helpful (and add additional weight) going upstairs, which is why we don't have them apparently.

Ferno makes a compact stairchair, don't get that one. It's just too small to use in a proper position.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 18, 2013)

Our reserve units do not have stair chairs on them or power gurney. We have the tracked Strykers and those are nice. 

When I was on deployment for Hurricane Sandy we only had the metal frame fernos. It was kinda scary using those.


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## Shepard (Jan 18, 2013)

Thanks All. It looks like we'll have to beg for them to shell out for some Strykers. Much appreciated. In fact, as I write this we just got another transport that having a stair chair is basically necessary...


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## cprted (Jan 18, 2013)

Last year we replaced all of our aluminum Ferno chaircots with the tracked EZ-Glide.  They are fantastic for going down stairs!  Up is the same as the old ones, just heavier.  Thankfully we don't have to go up stairs with them very often.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 18, 2013)

Maybe we have weird Strykers but the tracks work just as well up the stairs as they do down them. 

OP, ultimately whatever your boss will shell out for is going to be better than nothing. People have been using the untracked ones for years without problems. Just another nice feature to have to make the job easier and safer. 

I can hold a 250lb patient stationary on the stairs with our Strykers from the bottom position with relatively little effort. You just have to know how to angle the track to get them to bind.


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## traumaluv2011 (Jan 19, 2013)

I've used the non-track aluminum ones in my EMT class and I find it was important to know the mechanics of all of that. I am on two volly first aid squads and both use the strykers with the tracks. It definitely is a lot easier to use going down the long flights of stairs. If there are only just a few steps, I'll pick it up and carry it, which is a bit easier. It does take up a bit of room so if you're using the Type II (vanbulance), the aluminum ones might be the better option. 

It makes you a better EMT anyway if you have to lift the patient on the non-tracked stair chair. Unless you have one of those power lift systems, you'll have to lift them on the cot into the ambulance anyway. Either way you will need three people in order to use a stair chair. Two holding the chair and one guiding and supporting the bottom carrier.


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## Tigger (Jan 19, 2013)

Robb said:


> Maybe we have weird Strykers but the tracks work just as well up the stairs as they do down them.
> 
> OP, ultimately whatever your boss will shell out for is going to be better than nothing. People have been using the untracked ones for years without problems. Just another nice feature to have to make the job easier and safer.
> 
> I can hold a 250lb patient stationary on the stairs with our Strykers from the bottom position with relatively little effort. You just have to know how to angle the track to get them to bind.



I've never tried them, I've just been fed that line over and over again. I still want them.



traumaluv2011 said:


> It makes you a better EMT anyway if you have to lift the patient on the non-tracked stair chair. Unless you have one of those power lift systems, you'll have to lift them on the cot into the ambulance anyway. Either way you will need three people in order to use a stair chair. Two holding the chair and one guiding and supporting the bottom carrier.



Am I really a better EMT for putting my back in significant jeopardy?

And 90% of the time the stair chair is used, it is with just the ambulance crew. If the person is huge we'll get another crew to switch off with us, but that's pretty rare.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jan 19, 2013)

We are getting the tracked ones. I can't wait.


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## MMiz (Jan 19, 2013)

We had non-tracked Strykers at my old gig.  The one time I used it was in the middle of winter, bringing a patient home, with a transfer from the stretcher to the chair outside.  It was an absolute pain and we looked like amateurs.


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## DrParasite (Jan 20, 2013)

we used to have a model similar to these fernos,  but without the extendable bottom handles: 






we have since upgraded to the strykers with treads.  they are lighter than the ferno equivalent.

that being said, I still brought the old lighter/treadless chair in with me on every 911 call (except for an unconscious, that got a reeves).

if the patient was ambulatory they walked.  if they were critical, we could immediately start carrying them out (after doing initial interventions).  if they were non-ambulatory and heavy, we could go out, get the treaded stairchair, set up the cot, while partner did his thing inside.

treads are awesome for going down stairs, not so good for going up.  they also sucked on narrow stair cases (older style was much easier)


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## bahnrokt (Jan 20, 2013)

We just put a powered ferno chair in service last week.  Its HEAVY but I had one PT to bring out of a basement and the heft was well worth it.


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## Shepard (Jan 22, 2013)

I think that one of the main problems faced by our crews is the fact that we only have two personnel unless there's a 3rd rider. So carrying down a Pt is pretty unpractical. We generally have fire respond for a lift assist and every time they're incredulous that we don't have a stair chair.


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 22, 2013)

I must be really spoiled where I work. Hearing about all these agencies without stair chairs or scoop stretchers (different thread) is making me count my blessings. 

You can definitely carry an average sized person up and down stairs with two people but with that said, many of our patients are larger than average. With that said, you shouldn't ever be carrying a patient on a LSB/scoop/reeves or using a stairchair without a spotter as well. Unfortunately it still happens every day.

FWIW our new hire life test involved carrying a mannequin of increasing weight (150, 190, 230, I'm 90% positive on the weights, plus or minus a few pounds) up and down a flight of stairs with one other person

I'm guessing since you said you have to request fire lift assists you work IFT?


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## Shepard (Jan 24, 2013)

You are correct about IFT, but even our 911 cars don't have stair chairs. We did manage to sneak one onto one car that's not stationed at the main station. That was a gift from the chief of one of the fire depts we work with out in a more rural area. All of the units have a breakaway stretcher and that's what we use. I really don't have any complaints about my company besides the stair chair issue. Hopefully that'll be resolved soon.


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## leoemt (Jan 26, 2013)

Tigger said:


> We have Ferno non tracked ones. I've heard that tracks are not helpful (and add additional weight) going upstairs, which is why we don't have them apparently.
> 
> Ferno makes a compact stairchair, don't get that one. It's just too small to use in a proper position.



The tracks aren't supposed to be used for going upstairs. 

OP: we use the Stryker tracked ones. Let me ask you this, what is your back worth to you? Sure the Stryker and Fernos are expensive but how much will it cost to fix your back?

In WA we are required by law to carry stair chairs. 

Your boss needs to be reminded as to what is at stake. A $2,000 stair chair is cheaper than the cost of an injured employee.


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 26, 2013)

leoemt said:


> In WA we are required by law to carry stair chairs.



Wrong. The list of required ambulance equipment is spelled out in the WAC. 

No stair chair on it. 

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=246-976-300


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## DesertMedic66 (Jan 26, 2013)

I haven't seen any Stryker tracked stair chairs for ~$2,000. The only ones I have seen are ~$20,000


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## NomadicMedic (Jan 26, 2013)

firefite said:


> I haven't seen any Stryker tracked stair chairs for ~$2,000. The only ones I have seen are ~$20,000



They're expensive, but not THAT expensive. Boundtree lists them at about $3200. I'm sure if you were buying 5 or more, you could get the price reduced significantly.

https://www.boundtree.com/stair-pro-model-6252--custom-product-14295-189.aspx


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## Shepard (Jan 26, 2013)

Strykers aren't any where near 20,000. I've seen basic non tracked no fancy gadgets for 2500 and fully loaded models for as high as 5000 or more. Also, my back is worth much more than the cost of a Stryker. Now to convince the owner of this...


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## Metro EMS News (Jan 28, 2013)

*Stair chair cost / benefit*

In regards to stair chair pricing, the purchase costs far outweigh the risk to employees, patients, loss time hours, and workers compensation claims. According to NHTSA, “EMS workforce occupational injury and fatality rates that greatly exceed the national average for all industries.” www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/.../EMSWorkforceFeasibility3.pdf   One employee injury will easily amount to costs surpassing the one time cost of equipment like the stair chair, gurney and other devices.

Stryker Medicals’ Stair-Pro 6252 ($3,200.00) & ($3,250.00) are listed on Moore Medical at: http://www.mooremedical.com/index.cfm?PG=CTL&FN=ProductDetail&PID=6923
Even with the extras, you can get one for approx $3,500.00

If you’re on a tighter budget you can get a Stair –Pro 6250 ($1,300.00) at:
http://www.buyemp.com/product/stryker-stair-pro-6250

The Ferno EZ-Glide chair ($2,800.00) is also another option.
http://www.progressivemed.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=20129

None of these chairs will run an agency much more, especially with discounted pricing on more than one purchase.


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