# Recently fired for Falling Asleep



## waaaemt (Jun 1, 2012)

So, i recently got fired. I been working for a few months, still a probie. an open 24 hour shift came up so i took it. yay first 24! it was a nice busy day, including my first full-code around midnight where the guy died (my first death too) 

Then at 0300 we get an interfacility for a postpartum woman to another hospital 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours away. Basically just needed to bring her there cause her baby was brought there earlier. Totally stable, got on the gurney for us. 

So we're driving, and i'm in the back. We talk for a good 30-45 min, just small talk, and taking vitals every few minutes. Then she wants to sleep since she gave birth around 8 hours ago. so i shut off the lights and sit back in the captain's seat. look at my phone, it's 0400. i had been up already since the previous 0400 to get to work. so i sit back for probably a good 10 minutes. and the next thing i know my partner whose driving taps my shoulder with the phone to call the hospital. i look at the phone and it's 4:20am. 

that's all, i call the hospital, we get the PT there safe and sound. the PT loved me btw. then i offer to drive the 1 1/2 hours back to HQ so my partner can get some sleep. end of story. everything is all good.

1 week later, i get pulled into the Director's office and get canned for dozing off for 10 minutes plus a bunch of BS "small things" like they "feel like my heart was not in it" and crap like that. I understand i was still on probation and the PT was post partum but i still monitored her vitals every 15 min or so, and nothing happened. i just think this would have been an easy fix, just make sure i have a red bull or something on night transports or something. but instead, im out of a job and probably wont be able to get another one for a while.

i was also the first asian or any colored person to be hired in this semi-rural ambulance company.

any thoughts? do i just suck or what?


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## RocketMedic (Jun 1, 2012)

Well, unfortunately, you fell asleep during a patient encounter. Regardless of hos stable she appeared, we have to remain professional. I've been there on transfers, and it's not easy to stay awake, but we have to remain professional at all times, and that means awake with patients. EMS is a very competitive, self-destructive field at times, and people get canned for any reason possible.

I've made mistakes in this field, but I've been blessed with no disciplinary action or negative counselings, and I've learned from every one of my mistakes. My advice would be to learn from this and apply early and often wherever you can. Are you a B, I, or P?


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## waaaemt (Jun 1, 2012)

true true. well at least i wont make the same mistake again! but yeah i'll get over it eventually. i'm an EMT-B


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## Amberlamps916 (Jun 1, 2012)

It's a learning experience


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## Tigger (Jun 1, 2012)

As above, there's not going to be much tolerance for falling asleep with a patient. If I was your partner I'm not sure I'd have told the management but still. Word to the wise, if you're tired stay on the bench seat, much less comfortable and harder to fall asleep on. 

Also, realize that working nights when you're used to working days can suck pretty hard. My schedule for a while had me working three 10 hour days and an overnight, it was awful! You're body has to get used to working at nights, otherwise it's a constant fight to stay alert. In my humble opinion, if you work days, try and pick up day OT shifts until you've figure out a way to get yourself "ready" for a night or 24.


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## waaaemt (Jun 1, 2012)

yeah i was pretty bugged about the guy tattling. and also everyone was making it seem like long distance transports were nap times. people always talked about how awesome it was to sleep on 8 hour long transports, and the shift after that night, my partner (a different guy) slept for most of an hour long, daytime transport. so, me being new to the field thought it was a normal practice, and even though i wasn't trying to sleep, i think i would have made extra sure i wouldn't fall asleep if i wasn't so misinformed. 

i brought that up to my director but he pretty much said that it was the fact of my PT being post partum. so...i don't know.

but good point. bench seat it is from now on haha.
and yeah it's definitely something else working overnight.


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## RocketMedic (Jun 1, 2012)

Well, what part of the world are you in? If you're in SoCal, I'd recommend hitting amusement parks, etc ASAP. If you're in the Dakotas or parts of Texas, the oil fields are always looking for medically-trained warm bodies...


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## waaaemt (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm in seattle, washington. the company i was with was outside of seattle in somewhat rural area. it's pretty bleak here so i'm really kickin myself for blowing my opportunity! but thanks for the tips!


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## RocketMedic (Jun 1, 2012)

Well, I have no idea what the job market is like up there. You could enlist in the military...


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## waaaemt (Jun 1, 2012)

i'll just keep working as a handyman and try to volunteer with a FD for now. i make $15/hr as a handyman opposed to the $9.35/hr i was making with that company.


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## Tigger (Jun 1, 2012)

oogemsquagger said:


> yeah i was pretty bugged about the guy tattling. and also everyone was making it seem like long distance transports were nap times. people always talked about how awesome it was to sleep on 8 hour long transports, and the shift after that night, my partner (a different guy) slept for most of an hour long, daytime transport. so, me being new to the field thought it was a normal practice, and even though i wasn't trying to sleep, i think i would have made extra sure i wouldn't fall asleep if i wasn't so misinformed.



At no point would it ever be appropriate to take a nap with a patient present, no matter who said it was common. Even if it is common, do you really think that's a good idea? I think it kind of goes without saying that you should not do this. LDTs are great nap time, on the return trip.


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## legion1202 (Jun 1, 2012)

I agree with Tigger. No matter what you fell asleep with a PT. If something were to happen that would be your butt for abandonment in some regards. Buy a smart phone or something to play games on if the PT is sleeping. Read the protocol book or make chickens out of gloves to stay awake (stuff I have done). You were still a probie so you totally did a no no. i`m sure if you had been on the job for awhile you could have kept you job because i`m sure it happens. I`ve heard of people falling a sleep while working codes before haha....

Good luck with your job search and we have all gotten fired for something or other...


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## TatuICU (Jun 1, 2012)

Tigger said:


> At no point would it ever be appropriate to take a nap with a patient present, no matter who said it was common. Even if it is common, do you really think that's a good idea? I think it kind of goes without saying that you should not do this. LDTs are great nap time, on the return trip.



That's right. Its also not ok to have your 24hr trucks running LDT's in the wee hours of the morning after running 911 all day.  If companies are going to pretend to actually give a :censored::censored::censored::censored: about patients then why do they continually encourage and even force practices that place pts and crews in danger without batting an eye?  Gotta save that money.....oh yeah and we, uh, er,  care about you and your, uh (what is that we do again?), oh yeah, health care!

Guess its a good thing your partner didn't fall asleep at the wheel, which does happen.


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## Sasha (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm not going to pretend like I've never fallen asleep. I have. It's hard, sometimes, when you're running all day.. Even when you have your smart phone, and glove chickens. 

I'm not advocating falling asleep on a patient. That is DEFINITELY not a good idea.. But I understand that it does happen, so I have empathy for you.

You were a probie, so you're on even thinner ice than everyone else. Take this as a learning experience. 24s are definitely brutal, especially if you've never done them before and you're at a busy station. 

Better luck next time, I hope you find a good station to volunteer at. Take this time to work and go to medic school.


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## TB 3541 (Jun 1, 2012)

Sasha said:


> Even when you have your smart phone, and glove chickens.



You mean like this?







:rofl:


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## yowzer (Jun 1, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> That's right. Its also not ok to have your 24hr trucks running LDT's in the wee hours of the morning after running 911 all day.



A long time ago, I worked for a certain rural ambulance company located just outside Seattle that loved to do things like send us on a non-urgent 4 or 5 hour long round-trip transport an hour before the end of a 12 or 24 hour shift.

The relatively few options for EMT jobs in the area and the steady stream of fresh new EMTs just out of school looking for work means they have little trouble finding replacements when people get sick of it and quit, or do something stupid and get terminated. I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did there, but it was an experience that made me never want to work for a private for-profit ambulance or other health care organization again.


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## NYMedic828 (Jun 1, 2012)

Quite honestly, all "good advice" aside, I would have found my "partner" and had words with him outside of the work place.

If I have a problem with you, I am going to talk to you about it first before blatantly endangering your livelihood.

I don't advocate falling asleep on a patient, but as Sasha said, we've all dozed off if even for a second or two at some point. Work is tiring, many of us work multiple jobs at weird hours. IT HAPPENS.

God forbid this jagoff did such a thing to a guy with a family to support, he could cause some serious damage in these hard economic times.

Your partner as far as I am concerned is the real one at fault here and should not be permitted to work with any new employees if that is how he handles business.

As a probie/rookie you should be paired with a knowledgeable and experienced individual who has a pair and does not mind telling you what they feel in the aspect of ultimately improving you.

Unbelievable. These are the scum that ruin this service nationwide.


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 2, 2012)

yowzer said:


> A long time ago, I worked for a certain rural ambulance company located just outside Seattle that loved to do things like send us on a non-urgent 4 or 5 hour long round-trip transport an hour before the end of a 12 or 24 hour shift.
> 
> The relatively few options for EMT jobs in the area and the steady stream of fresh new EMTs just out of school looking for work means they have little trouble finding replacements when people get sick of it and quit, or do something stupid and get terminated. I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did there, but it was an experience that made me never want to work for a private for-profit ambulance or other health care organization again.




I also worked for a certain ambulance company, just south of Seattle, that also did that kind of stuff. Hmmm. I wonder if it was the same one?


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## MMiz (Jun 2, 2012)

I've seen it happen, it was the end of a double shift when we were transporting a stable patient home from the hospital at far-too-early-'o-clock.

I was shocked to learn the the pilot's union advocates for one pilot taking a power nap while the other pilot acts as as a monitor.  The survey said that half of airline pilots fall asleep in the cockpit.  Most of the time it's no big deal, but sometimes it is.

You made a mistake and unfortunately the consequences included losing your job.  Lesson learned.


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## Aprz (Jun 2, 2012)

> i was also the first asian or any colored person to be hired in this semi-rural ambulance company.


Trying to insinuate something?

Anyhow, did your company have CODE 7s/breaks?


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## EMT John (Jun 2, 2012)

oogemsquagger said:


> i was also the first asian or any colored person to be hired in this semi-rural ambulance company.





You were a probie and you fell asleep with a pt. don't try to pull the race card!


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## Handsome Robb (Jun 2, 2012)

EMT John said:


> You were a probie and you fell asleep with a pt. don't try to pull the race card!



What he said.

You dropped the ball dude. I don't care what color you are. 

You were a probie, you don't have wiggle room to mess up. 

Do not pass go, do not collect 200$, go straight to jail.


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## Veneficus (Jun 2, 2012)

I really like to see all of the comments on how falling asleep with a IFT patient is somehow the peak of unprofessionaism and failure.

There is more than enough evidence showing that fatigued crews, especially 24 hour shifts are already a danger to patients and providers.

I think it is a failure of the company to put a patient in the back of a rig with a crew that has been running for more than 12 hours, stable or not.

I agree with the persn who said it is lucky that the driver didn't fall asleep. 

We would be reading about another ambulance fatality because some lady needed a taxi ride to adistant hospital. 

Of course rather than fired, you would be posthumously called a "hero" you might even get you r name in the paper, a wreath, and a flag.

Faling alseep under such circumstances can happen to anyone. (thankfully it has never happened to me) but I am not fool enough to think it couldn't.

Now having said that...

I find it extremely unlikely an experienced supervisor would fire somebody for 1 infraction. Especially something that is very predictable and results in no harm like that.

The company could have wanted to get rid of you for any number of reasons, that was just thier excuse. 

Forget race, other employees out to get you, and all the other forms of conspiracy. You'd never prove it, you'd never get anything from it, and all you will do is waste your time and energy. 

Move on.


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## mycrofft (Jun 2, 2012)

Don't fall asleep.
Don't goof up unnecessarily and gratuitously during your probation period. 
Get a job with a union. 

They tried to get me because I was allegedly (not actually) asleep. Simply having to prove it stopped the action...but when I became a supervisor three years later I found they still had the supervisor's unofficial notes, in triplicate, in my "drop file" (supervisors' working notes for management purposes, not useable after one year per local protocol).


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## medicdan (Jun 2, 2012)

Quick question... OP, how long do you think you would have slept if your (driving) partner had not woken you up, for nothing else to remind you of requisite work?

I'm not saying I've never fallen asleep before, but never needed to be woken before....


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## Tigger (Jun 2, 2012)

TatuICU said:


> That's right. Its also not ok to have your 24hr trucks running LDT's in the wee hours of the morning after running 911 all day.  If companies are going to pretend to actually give a :censored::censored::censored::censored: about patients then why do they continually encourage and even force practices that place pts and crews in danger without batting an eye?  Gotta save that money.....oh yeah and we, uh, er,  care about you and your, uh (what is that we do again?), oh yeah, health care!
> 
> Guess its a good thing your partner didn't fall asleep at the wheel, which does happen.



I agree with you completely, it is an awful situation to be in when you know you are being all but forced to work shifts and calls that are guaranteed to be detrimental to your job performance.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jun 2, 2012)

Ummmm....there may be an obvious answer, but why were you in the back all alone, as a probie?


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## Medic Tim (Jun 2, 2012)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Ummmm....there may be an obvious answer, but why were you in the back all alone, as a probie?


"EMT" school in canada is usually a minimum of 1 year and the scope is about what an EMT-I is in the US. I know alot of places in Canada where you are on probation for months but only ride 3rd for a few weeks. Sometimes you are with an experienced fto sometimes someone with just a year or 2 experience.


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## CANDawg (Jun 2, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> "EMT" school in canada is usually a minimum of 1 year and the scope is about what an EMT-I is in the US. I know alot of places in Canada where you are on probation for months but only ride 3rd for a few weeks. Sometimes you are with an experienced fto sometimes someone with just a year or 2 experience.



I think the OP is from Washington state, looking at his previous posts.


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## Medic Tim (Jun 2, 2012)

dbo789 said:


> I think the OP is from Washington state, looking at his previous posts.



my bad i got this thread mixed up with another one.


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## yowzer (Jun 2, 2012)

n7lxi said:


> I also worked for a certain ambulance company, just south of Seattle, that also did that kind of stuff. Hmmm. I wonder if it was the same one?



IIRC, we worked at different companies (I don't think we ever met, but we have friends in common.). Nor do I think either one of us worked at the one the OP is referring too, not if he was the first minority EMT there. That narrows it down a lot.


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## waaaemt (Jun 3, 2012)

emt.dan said:


> Quick question... OP, how long do you think you would have slept if your (driving) partner had not woken you up, for nothing else to remind you of requisite work?
> 
> I'm not saying I've never fallen asleep before, but never needed to be woken before....



well when that happened we were 3 min from the hospital and it was relatively light sleep where i would have waken up totally if i felt the speed slow etc.

and yeah i know i messed up but i just brought up ethnicity to give you a better picture of me and also cause i got alot of funny looks, and comments about my name/appearance. but whatever that's irrelevant.


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## waaaemt (Jun 3, 2012)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Ummmm....there may be an obvious answer, but why were you in the back all alone, as a probie?



i don't know how most other agencies are but the one i was with, we had about 1 month of training being the 3rd guy and then 90 days of probation after that.


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## waaaemt (Jun 3, 2012)

Aprz said:


> Trying to insinuate something?
> 
> Anyhow, did your company have CODE 7s/breaks?



so what if i was insinuating something? it's not like the world is rid of racism, that stuff happens.

if code 7 is the same, do you mean airlifts?
but we didn't really have set aside break periods. we were on rotation in 4 crews at daytime and 3 at night, and your break would just be whenever you aren't up on rotation.


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## terrible one (Jun 3, 2012)

oogemsquagger said:


> so what if i was insinuating something? it's not like the world is rid of racism, that stuff happens.




Obviously the world is not rid of racism, however, if you try and play the race card it will be much more difficult to find employement elsewhere within EMS as it is a small community. Also, it will be very difficult if not impossible to prove and even if you did you will be looked at differently by your peers and management. So why even mention it? If they hired you fully aware of your race/ethnicity why would they suddenly terminate you? Did your race/ethnicity suddenly change during the course of your employment? If you believe that such prejudices did arise why not take the opportunity to prove them wrong?



oogemsquagger said:


> if code 7 is the same, do you mean airlifts?
> but we didn't really have set aside break periods. we were on rotation in 4 crews at daytime and 3 at night, and your break would just be whenever you aren't up on rotation.



code 7 is a termed a lunch break or downtime between calls


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## EMTGUY12 (Jun 4, 2012)

yowzer said:


> A long time ago, I worked for a certain rural ambulance company located just outside Seattle that loved to do things like send us on a non-urgent 4 or 5 hour long round-trip transport an hour before the end of a 12 or 24 hour shift.
> 
> The relatively few options for EMT jobs in the area and the steady stream of fresh new EMTs just out of school looking for work means they have little trouble finding replacements when people get sick of it and quit, or do something stupid and get terminated. I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did there, but it was an experience that made me never want to work for a private for-profit ambulance or other health care organization again.



You took the words right out of my mouth, but mine was when I was a fresh Paramedic, we were having to work mandatory OT 48hr shifts and I MIGHT have been getting 8 random hours in that time period, and would often score a round trip 8hr transfer 1hr before getting off. Once was even 5 min before shift was over and our replacements hadn't arrived yet....NEVER AGAIN


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## NYMedic828 (Jun 4, 2012)

The OP stated they told him he was terminated for falling asleep on a patient AND a few other things...

Mind filling us in? Sounds like you had a few prior offenses you aren't being clear about...


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## waaaemt (Jun 4, 2012)

NYMedic828 said:


> The OP stated they told him he was terminated for falling asleep on a patient AND a few other things...
> 
> Mind filling us in? Sounds like you had a few prior offenses you aren't being clear about...



i said it was cause they thought "my heart wasn't in it" because i wasn't able to cover as many shifts as they wanted me to which is bs since they scheduled me almost everyday so i can't cover shifts i'm already working. and a lot of times when i did call to cover an open shift it was already taken. and the 24 that i worked the night of falling asleep was a shift cover!


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## STXmedic (Jun 4, 2012)

Not to be malicious, but could it have been a general performance issue?


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## waaaemt (Jun 4, 2012)

PoeticInjustice said:


> Not to be malicious, but could it have been a general performance issue?



hmm i don't know! they didn't say anything and i was always very thorough with my assessments, i caught things the FD medics missed a couple times like stroke signs and neck pain. most of the FD liked me,  and i was one of the few who always gave the rigs total wipe downs with disinfectant every shift. i even vacuumed the rigs which no other person did!


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