# Southside Virginia Emergency Crew EMT stops police chase with ambulance - EMT Charged



## MMiz (Apr 3, 2010)

*Southside Virginia Emergency Crew EMT-I stops police chase with  ambulance *

Lieutenant Mark Talbott, EMT-I, of the Southside Virginia Emergency Crew in Petersburg used the SVEC ambulance he was driving to stop a police chase on April 1, 2010.  He saw the chase in his rear view mirror and pulled his ambulance into the path of the fleeing suspect on Jefferson Street between Washington Street and Wythe Street in downtown Petersburg yesterday.

*Read more*

Followup:

*Ambulance Driver Cited for Reckless Driving in Petersburg Chase*
PETERSBURG -                                       A Petersburg ambulance driver has been charged with  reckless driving for pulling his ambulance into the path of a suspect  who led police on a 10-minute chase through the Petersburg area Thursday  afternoon.

The ambulance driver, Lt. Mark Talbott, with the Southside Virginia  Emergency Crew was charged with reckless driving several hours after the  fleeding suspect crashed into the back of his ambulance at 4:30 p.m.


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## Aidey (Apr 3, 2010)

The followup article link isn't working.


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## reaper (Apr 3, 2010)

And he's a LT.! 

Nice of him to wreck and ambulance, he doesn't own!


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## TransportJockey (Apr 3, 2010)

Sounds like he got the proper ticket for what he did


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## EMSLaw (Apr 3, 2010)

Indeed.  Though as usual, we all rush to judgment of another EMT.  I'm sure it will all work its way through the system.

The part I find suspicious - I've never been in an ambulance where the rearview mirror was good for seeing the road, rather than just the passenger compartment.


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## spinnakr (Apr 3, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> Indeed.  Though as usual, we all rush to judgment of another EMT.  I'm sure it will all work its way through the system.
> 
> The part I find suspicious - I've never been in an ambulance where the rearview mirror was good for seeing the road, rather than just the passenger compartment.



Might have meant side mirror.  But either way, to be honest, I'm a little conflicted:  on the one hand, unlike police cruisers, ambos are NOT meant to be crashed.  On the other hand, looking at the damage to both, this couldn't possibly have been much more than a 40-mph chase...  I guess the system (ideally) will decide, with a lot more information than we've got.


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## exodus (Apr 6, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> Indeed.  Though as usual, we all rush to judgment of another EMT.  I'm sure it will all work its way through the system.
> 
> The part I find suspicious - I've never been in an ambulance where the rearview mirror was good for seeing the road, rather than just the passenger compartment.



I see out of the back very easily on all our rigs without a pt..


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## lightsandsirens5 (Apr 6, 2010)

Wow. Everyone is like jumping all over this guy. I have heard of plenty of cases where citizens help stop people who are fleeing from the police. What makes it any different that he is in an ambulance when he stops the chase? Would it be different if it was his POV? If he was off duty? If he was an HVAC tech instead of an EMT and used a company van instead of an ambulance?

I'd say way to go man.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 6, 2010)

Umm.. I've seen a few people do it in their POVs in ABQ, they've all recieved tickets as well


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## reaper (Apr 6, 2010)

Because it is not his job. He could have caused innocent bystanders to be injured. Plus, he does not own that $100k ambulance. What would he have done if it was totaled and out of service? Then the citizens that paid for it are out a unit on the road.


He was stupid and deserves the ticket!


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## wolfwyndd (Apr 6, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> Umm.. I've seen a few people do it in their POVs in ABQ, they've all recieved tickets as well


Same here.  Every situation where I've heard that a regular civilian tried to stop a car by intentionally pulling in front of it they've gotten a ticket.  Pulling an ambulance in front of a fleeing vehicle to stop it smacks of reckless endangerment to me.  He endangered himself, the suspect he was attempting to stop and the other police officers involved.  He may have endangered pedestrians in the area.  Had the suspect swerved to avoid the ambulance he may have gone up onto the sidewalk striking pedestrians.  Stopping a police chase is not within our scope of practice.  EMS professionals are not trained in pursuit.  

Did he do 'the right' thing?  Maybe.  But it wasn't his job to do what he did.


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## eveningsky339 (Apr 7, 2010)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Wow. Everyone is like jumping all over this guy. I have heard of plenty of cases where citizens help stop people who are fleeing from the police. What makes it any different that he is in an ambulance when he stops the chase? Would it be different if it was his POV? If he was off duty? If he was an HVAC tech instead of an EMT and used a company van instead of an ambulance?
> 
> I'd say way to go man.



Thank you.  I say congratulations to the EMT who stopped the chase.


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## armywifeemt (Apr 7, 2010)

His heart was in the right place. Whether or not his brain was is definitely a point up for debate.  

If we always penalized people for being stupid, the police would never get a break from writing insignificant tickets.


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## el Murpharino (Apr 8, 2010)

What if he killed his partner or himself in the process?  I don't mean to what-if this to death, but he did a foolish thing to make himself out to be a hero.  Same reason on MVA/MVC's we position the ambulance where it WON'T get hit by traffic whenever possible...preferably on the other side of the fire truck


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## Danson (Apr 8, 2010)

We aren't cops.  Anyone who interferes with a chase is way out of line.

 I can bet that his rig was out of service for at least a few hours too.  What about the people that he could have been helping while he was dealing with the endless red tape that occurs after a rig collision?


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## EMSLaw (Apr 8, 2010)

If you watch a few of those "worlds greatest police chases" shows, you'll inevitably see truckers using their rigs as a rolling roadblock to help the police.  I doubt they get tickets or get arrested. 

I'm sticking to my position that we shouldn't rush to judgment.  

By the way, to shift the question a bit, I hope the police had good reason to be in, as Roscoe would say, "peeeersooot!"  Police chases get people killed, and then you find out the crime of the century that resulted in a Blues Brothers-esque collission was theft of a candy bar, or speeding or something. With the congestion on New Jersey's roads, and the population density, the Attorney General's pursuit policy says you can only pursue if, and I'm paraphrasing, a serious felony involving risk to life is in progress.  

I'm not trying to shift blame, but if it was serious enough for the police to endanger the motoring public by engaging in a high-speed chase, maybe whatever was going on was serious enough to justify the risk to an ambulance, even if we're not supposed to "get involved."


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## spinnakr (Apr 8, 2010)

How about we all think of this a different way.

What is the number 1 rule in EMS?

...
...

You got it, scene safety.  You can't help anyone else if you turn yourself into a patient.

That applies equally to your conduct in the squad as it does your on-scene arrival.

Whether or not his heart was in the right place, whether or not he should be ticketed, he should *not* have used his squad as a roadblock.  If you ask me, this only speaks to the culture of "risking my *** to save yours" that most wrongly exists in EMS.


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## dmc2007 (Apr 8, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> If you watch a few of those "worlds greatest police chases" shows, you'll inevitably see truckers using their rigs as a rolling roadblock to help the police.  I doubt they get tickets or get arrested.



There is, however, a lot more mass behind a tractor trailer then there is behind an ambulance.  A fleeing suspect hitting a truck will cause very little damage to the truck and won't make it move very much.  An ambulance, on the other hand, will sustain much more damage and has a much higher risk of moving after the crash because it is much closer in mass to the car.

IIRC, in many of those pursuits, the police officers radioed the truckers and asked for assistance.  It's one thing to give assistance when the police know what you are doing, but doing so when they aren't is dangerous.


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## KillTank (Apr 9, 2010)

*THE SOUTHSIDE VIRGINIA EMERGENCY CREW Lieutenant who was cited for reckless driving last week has had the charges against him dropped.* more info here...
http://firegeezer.com/2010/04/09/charges-dropped-against-reckless-amb-driver/


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## Jon (Apr 12, 2010)

armywifeemt said:


> His heart was in the right place. Whether or not his brain was is definitely a point up for debate.
> 
> If we always penalized people for being stupid, the police would never get a break from writing insignificant tickets.


well said.

was it a dumb move? Yes. Bear in mind, though, that the LT made a split-second decision, and managed to stop a chase before anyone was killed.


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## bstone (Apr 19, 2010)

Video with an interview of the DA who explains why she dropped the charges.

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articl...l;jsessionid=2C2699BC3389C5F806829EB8DADF37AC


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## AmbuLift (Jan 22, 2012)

reaper said:


> he does not own that $100k ambulance.



Which ambulance costs 100k?


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## SanDiegoEmt7 (Jan 23, 2012)

EMSLaw said:


> If you watch a few of those "worlds greatest police chases" shows, you'll inevitably see truckers using their rigs as a rolling roadblock to help the police.  I doubt they get tickets or get arrested.
> 
> I'm sticking to my position that we shouldn't rush to judgment.
> 
> ...



I like the lawyer perspective, you could go either way based on your mood


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## ffemt8978 (Jan 23, 2012)

AmbuLift said:


> Which ambulance costs 100k?



Ones that are stocked with everything required to be an ambulance.:rofl:


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## Handsome Robb (Jan 23, 2012)

AmbuLift said:


> Which ambulance costs 100k?



Most any new type I or type III...even real nice type IIs will get up into 6 digits.

Our type IIIs were like 125k a piece if not more. Times that by 42 units = why Ambulance companies aren't cheap to run.


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## EMSLaw (Jan 23, 2012)

SanDiegoEmt7 said:


> I like the lawyer perspective, you could go either way based on your mood



That wasn't really my lawyerly opinion.  That opinion would be something along the lines of, "Are you out of your mind?!  Do you know how much liability you just subjected yourself and the company/squad to?!"


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## AmbuLift (Jan 27, 2012)

NVRob said:


> Most any new type I or type III...even real nice type IIs will get up into 6 digits.
> 
> Our type IIIs were like 125k a piece if not more. Times that by 42 units = why Ambulance companies aren't cheap to run.



Thanks - but what's the split between the vehicle itself and the medical equipment inside?


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## EMSLaw (Jan 27, 2012)

AmbuLift said:


> Thanks - but what's the split between the vehicle itself and the medical equipment inside?



A box ambulance, by itself, without the equipment inside, costs somewhere in the $150K range.  If you add up everything inside, especially for an ALS rig, you'd be rapidly approaching $200K.


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## medic417 (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow successful code after more than a year with no activity.  Dead thread Revived, Read all about it.  



And ambulances cost money.


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