# Strobe Emergency Lights on off duty car?



## shadowstewie (Aug 5, 2009)

I became a Nationally Registered EMT a couple months ago and I was wondering if it's illegal or not to have strobe lights for your own personal off duty car/truck/suv for emergency situations that you come across off duty. Please take my question serious, I have a strong feeling that it's not legal but I've seen a lot of people on videos who are EMT's and Paramedics who install it in their personal off duty car and say they can because they are Registered EMT's/Paramedics. Is it illegal to do this? Just strobe lights, no sirens or anything and it would be used only in emergency situations. Thank you.


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## MrRevesz (Aug 5, 2009)

Depending on your state and department guidelines, it can be legal to install an emergency warning light, and in some places, a siren. 

As for being recommended or needed? Not at all. Half the time it isn't needed on the ambulance. This will probably be the nicest response to the question.


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## shadowstewie (Aug 5, 2009)

Okay, and it wouldn't be used as a transporting vehicle. It would be used like your main standard Hazard Lights, but them being more viewable for the public so people around you know there was an accident or critical situation.


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## EMTinNEPA (Aug 5, 2009)

Isn't that what the emergency lights on police cruisers, ambulances, medic units, and fire apparatus are for?


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## daedalus (Aug 5, 2009)

Check with your local EMS agency. We cannot answer your question unless we know what state you are located in, and even then, there are interesting rules in the states that allow this as to who and why, what color and how many, etc. Even if you are allowed to, many here including myself will recommend against it for a variety of reasons which may be found using the search function. Leave the lights and sirens to the real emergency vehicles, and when off of work, try to be yourself instead of always on the job.

I have a feeling this might also be a troll post. Proceed with caution.


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## shadowstewie (Aug 5, 2009)

Okay, and I live in Orange County, California.


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## medicdan (Aug 5, 2009)

Another hat tip to Mr. Conspiracy.

*I'm shopping for a lightbar for my POV. Any recommendations?*

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=833 The definition of "whacker".
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=11443 Differing opinions on lights for POVs, and why you shouldn't start another thread.
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=11420 This thread deals more generally with the use of sirens and code 3 driving.
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=3035 Rid shares his opinion on POV lights
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5240 Fatalities related to speeding in a POV.
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=6905 15 additional pages of this argument.


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2009)

In Suffolk County New York it has nothing to with your status as an EMT but more your membership as an rescue services volunteer be it firefighter, EMT, whatever you are allowed to put a light on your car. You have to get to the scene station somehow.


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## Ridryder911 (Aug 5, 2009)

citizensoldierny said:


> You have to get to the scene station somehow.



Walk, pedal or drive as normal citizens has been working for a centuries now. Lights & sirens does not increase your response time, better yet have pople at the station all the time.

R/r 911


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## firecoins (Aug 5, 2009)

citizensoldierny said:


> In Suffolk County New York it has nothing to with your status as an EMT but more your membership as an rescue services volunteer be it firefighter, EMT, whatever you are allowed to put a light on your car. You have to get to the scene station somehow.


How does your green light get you to ther scene?


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## daedalus (Aug 5, 2009)

Absolutely illegal in California to have lights or sirens in your vehicle. This applies to volunteers as well.


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2009)

firecoins,
Out on my end of the island we use blues as most departments are fire/rescue. I'm sure department and district policies vary but in my dept. you can respond to the scene if going to the station would require you to bypass scene. Emt's are also issued their own portables so you can communicate from scene.


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Walk, pedal or drive as normal citizens has been working for a centuries now. Lights & sirens does not increase your response time, better yet have pople at the station all the time.
> 
> R/r 911



That would be optimal but as we are a small volunteer dept. with an even smaller amount of EMT's  24 hr staffing is not really feasible. The blue light thing seems to be working pretty well as some people actually yield the right of way and our response time is better then average for Suffolk County New York.


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## medic417 (Aug 5, 2009)

citizensoldierny said:


> That would be optimal but as we are a small volunteer dept. with an even smaller amount of EMT's  24 hr staffing is not really feasible. The blue light thing seems to be working pretty well as some people actually yield the right of way and our response time is better then average for Suffolk County New York.



Sounds like time to go paid so your ambulance can be staffed properly 24/7.


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2009)

Great idea but volunteer fire and rescue is a Long Island , New York tradition. And you'd have to work about 80 hours a week to make ends meet as the county pays EMT-P's about $44,000 a year to start which isn't much when you look at the average rent, car insurance prices, etc. . The PD out here starts at $75,000 , so that might give you an idea about the cost of living in one of the costliest counties in the U.S. , besides for the size of the area we cover the system works.


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## medic417 (Aug 5, 2009)

citizensoldierny said:


> Great idea but volunteer fire and rescue is a Long Island , New York tradition. And you'd have to work about 80 hours a week to make ends meet as the county pays EMT-P's about $44,000 a year to start which isn't much when you look at the average rent, car insurance prices, etc. . The PD out here starts at $75,000 , so that might give you an idea about the cost of living in one of the costliest counties in the U.S. , besides for the size of the area we cover the system works.



And that is the problem with EMS we base everything on tradition.  

As to pay thats what negotiating is for.


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2009)

That rate is through civil service, so it has already been negotiated. I worked as a Nurse for the county great retirement, good benefits, I'd still be there but couldn't wait to go through all the steps until I got to a good pay rate.


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## PapaBear434 (Aug 5, 2009)

MrRevesz said:


> Depending on your state and department guidelines, it can be legal to install an emergency warning light, and in some places, a siren.
> 
> As for being recommended or needed? Not at all. Half the time it isn't needed on the ambulance. This will probably be the nicest response to the question.



What he said.  Even in the most rural of areas, there is little reason to go L&S in a personal vehicle.


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## Hockey (Aug 5, 2009)

Heres a clue for OP and any other future posters regarding vehicle laws in Cali

If you aren't sure if its legal, most likely it isn't.  Especially in Cali, everything is illegal


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## wyoskibum (Aug 5, 2009)

*Absolutely Not*



shadowstewie said:


> I became a Nationally Registered EMT a couple months ago and I was wondering if it's illegal or not to have strobe lights for your own personal off duty car/truck/suv for emergency situations that you come across off duty.




You still need a state license to provide care at an EMT level. National Registry does not give you _*authoriti*_ to practice as an EMT.
Unless you are ambulance chasing, you rarely come across such situations to justify a light
By having a light, you may risk your status as a good Samaritan  in those  situations
If you want to see strobe lights, get a job as an EMT with an ambulance service


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## Rob123 (Aug 5, 2009)

Hockey said:


> Heres a clue for OP and any other future posters regarding vehicle laws in Cali
> 
> If you aren't sure if its legal, most likely it isn't.  Especially in Cali, everything is illegal



I thought that was only true in New York




citizensoldierny said:


> That would be optimal but as we are a small volunteer dept. with an even smaller amount of EMT's  24 hr staffing is not really feasible. The blue light thing seems to be working pretty well as some people actually yield the right of way and our response time is better then average for Suffolk County New York.



My Vollie corps in Queens, NY requires all members to be in the building when pulling tour.
It provides the best possible response and keeps everyone out of trouble.
Some members are allowed to have one green light as per corps policy and state law.
Technically they could respond from home during off-hours if authorized by an Operations Chief.

Although I am allowed to have a green light, I don't want one.
I never respond from home and I don't want the hassle of being pulled over to show my permit.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 5, 2009)

> By having a light, you may risk your status as a good Samaritan in those situations



Only if your state obligates you to act while off duty.  However, that is exactly why I got rid of a lightbar and went to hidden lights that were only visible when activated.  I didn't want to get flagged down if I wasn't in the mood to work.  Most of the time I only turned them on when I was stopped at a scene (actually had several people comment how odd it seem to them that I would pull up and THEN turn my lights on).  This served two purposes- it helped the ambulance find the location (since most of the houses in our jurisdiction were not clearly marked with the address and still aren't to a great degree) and it reduced the risk of someone getting hit while working next to the road. 



> Unless you are ambulance chasing, you rarely come across such situations to justify a light



I could not have said it better myself.  



> If you want to see strobe lights, get a job as an EMT with an ambulance service



+1


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## citizensoldierny (Aug 5, 2009)

Rob,
Things are a lot different out here, I like anonymity so I won't state the exact size of my dept. but it's less than 100 members. If we had mandatory staffing I would have to be there 3-4 nights a week. So its not going to happen. As for the lights we are as previously stated a fire/rescue agency so we use blue. See attached link if you have any further questions regarding the legality of the blue light. As for trouble, in my five years in the fire service and out on Long Island I have only seen one incident of abuse. Being in the fire service requires adults  and we police are own. It's a small world out here at the end of the island and word travels fast so if your going to play games with your light it will likely come to the attention of your dept. quickly.

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bluelite.htm


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## wyoskibum (Aug 5, 2009)

usafmedic45 said:


> Only if your state obligates you to act while off duty.



My thinking was that if he stops to help on the incident that he "happens upon" then he would be acting as a good Samaritan.   Once you activate some sort of light bar, it may indicate that you may have some sort of Duty to respond.  I could see some Lawyer getting a hold of that one.


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## medic417 (Aug 5, 2009)

wyoskibum said:


> My thinking was that if he stops to help on the incident that he "happens upon" then he would be acting as a good Samaritan.   Once you activate some sort of light bar, it may indicate that you may have some sort of Duty to respond.  I could see some Lawyer getting a hold of that one.



The fact that you have training could lead to the same thing.  Especially if they claim you caused harm by doing something that an equally trained person would not have done.


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## Hockey (Aug 5, 2009)

Rob123 said:


> I thought that was only true in New York


Same thing.  Not like theres a difference between them


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## wyoskibum (Aug 5, 2009)

medic417 said:


> The fact that you have training could lead to the same thing.  Especially if they claim you caused harm by doing something that an equally trained person would not have done.



I think that is a different issue.  You have your Standard of Care which is the level you are trained.  The lay person with no training has a much lower standard than say the M.D. who happens on the scene.

I realize that some states have different laws, but in my opinion, you have a Duty to act when you are wearing the pager, radio, on the roster for whatever service, etc...  Even as a Paramedic, I should be covered by the good Samaritan law if I choose to stop and help when I'm not on duty.  That doesn't give me the right to be incompetent and provide contrary care, but I should be covered if I do the best I can to my ability.


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## berkeman (Aug 6, 2009)

shadowstewie said:


> I became a Nationally Registered EMT a couple months ago and I was wondering if it's illegal or not to have strobe lights for your own personal off duty car/truck/suv for emergency situations that you come across off duty. Please take my question serious, I have a strong feeling that it's not legal but I've seen a lot of people on videos who are EMT's and Paramedics who install it in their personal off duty car and say they can because they are Registered EMT's/Paramedics. Is it illegal to do this? Just strobe lights, no sirens or anything and it would be used only in emergency situations. Thank you.



Why not use road flares?  Much more standard, and much less of a potential liability issue.


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## ffemt8978 (Aug 6, 2009)

berkeman said:


> Why not use road flares?  Much more standard, and much less of a potential liability issue.



And much more likely to start a fire along side the road (it's happened here more than once).


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## PapaBear434 (Aug 6, 2009)

Just make sure to keep the road flares away from any leaking fluids, you should be fine.


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## usafmedic45 (Aug 8, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> And much more likely to start a fire along side the road (it's happened here more than once).


*raises hand*  I'm guilty of that one.  I accidentally dropped a road flare into dry brush along the road when I tripped while putting one down.  :lol:


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 8, 2009)

In regards to road flares, use the electronic flares (the LED ones).  They're cheaper in the long run and safer.

In regards to lights on my car, if I ever had to respond to a scene, i might consider amber lights on scene, but if you want me to get full out code lights and siren then you're buying the car and we'll have to talk about what I get out of it...


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## JPINFV (Aug 8, 2009)

Red strobes are usefull...


On the back of a bicycle


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## emtjack02 (Aug 8, 2009)

to the OP: If your job or vol requires you to have lights in your pov then go for it..there are issues that come with it so be careful..here in IL the lights don't give you the right of way they mearly ask for it.
Some places can not afford to go pd full time. We are pd on call and us 2/3 of what we tax just for that.


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## DV_EMT (Aug 8, 2009)

I do think that they can strobes can be dangerous if used by a whacker or some little kid trying to look cool, but i will say that having a few extra lights while pulled off the road trying to help someone can be useful (esp the 101) Sometimes the simple emergency flashers dont provide enough lighting and thats why I believe that rear strobes/flashers should be allowed. fronts..... eh... i think to much danger is involved there

but thats just my opinion  

anyone else?


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## medicdan (Aug 8, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Red strobes are usefull...
> 
> 
> On the back of a bicycle



I think i'll have to start doing that... respond to scenes on my bicycle. Can I put a bike horn on it?







I kid, I kid.


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## JPINFV (Aug 8, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> I think i'll have to start doing that... respond to scenes on my bicycle. Can I put a bike horn on it?
> 
> I kid, I kid.



Get a mechanical siren sans motor and attach it to the drive frame on the bicycle. It'll be so cool!


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## ResTech (Aug 8, 2009)

Pennsylvania allows blue lights... they are only useful when at a scene to improve visibility until units get onscene. Its not uncommon for volunteers to get alerted on their Minitor and respond direct to a scene though. My volly station operates its own repeater system and all of the volunteers have radios to coordinate responses. It wasn't uncommon for the ambulance to respond driver only and have the EMT meet them onscene.

Overall, I dislike warning lights on POV unless your a Chief officer... and even then, what's really the point?


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 8, 2009)

ResTech said:


> Overall, I dislike warning lights on POV unless your a Chief officer... and even then, what's really the point?



To be able to say "I drive the fire S-U-V!"

And:

"Yep!  That's a Fire!"

anyone know what I'm referencing?


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## JPINFV (Aug 8, 2009)

Yep... that's a fire. Confirmed. There is a fire. Which is too bad because this is just an SUV. Guess we'll have to wait for the fire truck.


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## DV_EMT (Aug 8, 2009)

haha... i still laugh when i see that video!

but back to the fire chief.... i think its important for them to have lights only when there is a disaster... ie... huge brush fire that burns SB county to shreds... or another 9/11


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 10, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Yep... that's a fire. Confirmed. There is a fire. Which is too bad because this is just an SUV. Guess we'll have to wait for the fire truck.



"The dude in the Fire SUV just directs people which is easy to do when you're dealing with fire.  Hey guys, right there, where's that fire, I want you to put water on it, consistantly, until there is no more fire.  Now over here, I want you to take a similar approach,  I want you to put water on it, consistantly, until there is no more fire."


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## Tincanfireman (Aug 10, 2009)

The only light you need for a personal vehicle is the one on your cell phone. So you can dial 9-1-1.  Unless you can get far enough off the road so that your vehicle is not a hazard, don't even stop. Unless you are in a very rural area and it's a life and death situation, let the properly equipped people driving the properly marked vehicles handle the situation.  I'm not being snarky, just realistic. I know every situation is different, but for the most part these guidelines apply to 90% of the situations that occur every day.


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## Patrick.W.Steele (Aug 11, 2009)

Not a single reason I would see why an off duty EMT would need to put lights on their own vehicle. If the situation is to the point where you are working that it's so dangerous that you are in  need of having even more lights than your hazard lights, I wouldn't consider the scene to be safe, and you should wait for EMS with lights, and first responders with either Police/Fire vehicles to help direct traffic.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Aug 11, 2009)

Before I was in EMS, I would stop to help people at a car accident if I saw it happen.  Mostly just to assist people in getting to the curb and calling 911.  Are you saying you shouldn't stop?

Not's saying I disagree with that.  Now that I am and EMT good smaratan doesn't apply anymore and I would think twice before helping hands on...  Luckily I have a white cloud over my head and don't see people getting into trouble too often!


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## Patrick.W.Steele (Aug 12, 2009)

Definitely not saying that you shouldn't stop anymore. I think that if it puts you in danger to stop, I.E interstate MVA and the car is in one of the lanes, I think you should stop, DEFINITELY call EMS personnel, but if there's a good chance that I am gonna get hit with my hazard lights, let alone with strobe emergency lights, I would be very very very hesitant to render care.

a dead EMT can't treat a patient.


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