# San Bernardino County Fire Department’s Bid May End AMR’s 33-Year Ambulance Monopoly



## Amberlamps916 (Jun 25, 2014)

http://sbsentinel.com/2014/06/county-fire-departments-bid-may-end-amrs-33-year-ambulance-monopoly/


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 25, 2014)

This should be fun to watch. I don't see AMR going down without a major fight. 

And talking to some county fire guys that I know, they don't want it to happen. Also more than likely their pay will be minimum wage where as with AMR the pay is not minimum wage.


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 25, 2014)

Yeah no kidding... What's a PC firefighter/EMT make? Last I checked it was $8 an hour. 


I see a lot of fire departments making big plays to transport and putting, or rather attempting to put, the private companies out.  

Interesting. Happened in Vegas.


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 25, 2014)

Hahaha. From the article:

"A report received by the Sentinel is that Hartwig’s proposal has so alarmed American Medical Response’s corporate officers that they have offered to pay the county an annual $30 million exclusive franchise fee if the county will simply reject Hartwig’s proposal and essentially extend the current arrangement for AMR to continue operating for ten years."



They have money for that huh... No wonder EMTs make $9 an hour there, and little more everywhere else.

Imagine the profits. Billions nationwide.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 25, 2014)

If the fire department wins they will just put out single role EMTs and Medics at or very close to min wage. 

Right now I want to say AMR San Bernardino starting pay for an EMT is $12.30/hr (at least that's what it was when I went through orientation a couple of years ago).


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## Amberlamps916 (Jun 25, 2014)

In San Bernardino County, AMR is actually $10.50-11 starting for EMTs and $14.11-15.00 starting for medics on 12 hour shifts.

24 hour rate for EMTs is $8.29 starting (not sure how the mininum wage increase will affect this) and $10.80 for medics.

Here's San Bernardino County Fire's flyer for their soon to be rolling out ambulance operator position.

EMT: http://www.sbcfire.org/viewer/attachment.ashx?id=2a1e02eb-b49e-4334-9e26-0cec64e37f38

Medic: http://agency.governmentjobs.com/sanbernardino/job_bulletin.cfm?JobID=872033


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 25, 2014)

Addrobo said:


> In San Bernardino County, AMR is actually $10.50-11 starting for EMTs and $14.11-15.00 starting for medics on 12 hour shifts.
> 
> 24 hour rate for EMTs is $8.29 starting (not sure how the mininum wage increase will affect this) and $10.80 for medics.
> 
> ...



It's that low for AMR there? And you guys are union?


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## m0nster986 (Jun 25, 2014)

Well... I have given up long ago... "If you can't beat them, join them! "


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## TRSpeed (Jun 25, 2014)

Ya that's ridiculously low pay. I like how they are a 'non-represented" position.


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## onrope (Jun 25, 2014)

Addrobo said:


> In San Bernardino County, AMR is actually $10.50-11 starting for EMTs and $14.11-15.00 starting for medics on 12 hour shifts.
> 
> 24 hour rate for EMTs is $8.29 starting (not sure how the mininum wage increase will affect this) and $10.80 for medics.
> 
> ...



The AO jobs that were flown are going to replace FF/PMs and LTs on boxes in existing county service areas. 

As far as bidding on the ambulance contract I wouldn't be surprised to see it broken down like LA years back, County picks up areas while Desert/Baker/MBA retain theirs and AMR loses some.


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## BASICallyEMT (Jun 25, 2014)

Dejavu.... AMR Riverside recently went through this and ended up renewing their contract. I see the same happening for San Bernardino.


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## Amberlamps916 (Jun 25, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> It's that low for AMR there? And you guys are union?



Yes, it's poverty levels in San Bernardino County, and all 3 divisions are union.


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## terrible one (Jun 25, 2014)

SB county fire is one of the most politically active areas in CA. The county fire deparment not only wants to become a transporting department for the entire county but is also attempting to become a 'contract county' thus eliminating Cal Fires need to protect the SRA. I'm not sure where all this money is coming from in the county, especially since San Bernardino city is as broke as they come.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 25, 2014)

terrible one said:


> SB county fire is one of the most politically active areas in CA. The county fire deparment not only wants to become a transporting department for the entire county but is also attempting to become a 'contract county' thus eliminating Cal Fires need to protect the SRA. I'm not sure where all this money is coming from in the county, especially since San Bernardino city is as broke as they come.



Broke even though they are still hiring FF/medics at a starting pay of well over $80,000 per year


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## Angel (Jun 26, 2014)

Addrobo said:


> In San Bernardino County, AMR is actually $10.50-11 starting for EMTs and $14.11-15.00 starting for medics on 12 hour shifts.
> 
> 24 hour rate for EMTs is $8.29 starting (not sure how the mininum wage increase will affect this) and $10.80 for medics.
> 
> ...



Are you kidding?! granted AMR doesn't pay them that much to begin with but how much of a slap in the face are those wages! what difference is making them dept AT ALL to take over transports? It's not benefiting the emts/medics so whats the point. (I know $$). so frustrating, and I know people will take the job simply to say they work for the FD and _possibly_ have the chance to promote up to firefighter. 
I cant


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## terrible one (Jun 26, 2014)

DesertEMT66 said:


> Broke even though they are still hiring FF/medics at a starting pay of well over $80,000 per year



Not sure where you're getting 80k
Starting pay is around 51k for firefighter. With lots of OT you can make 80k but SBcoFD starting pay is no where near 80k. In fact no department in SBco starts at 80k, even Ontario and they are the highest paid.

http://www.sbcounty.gov/hr/EmpOpp_JobTitles.aspx
http://www.ci.ontario.ca.us/ftp/RecurringRPTS/O_HR010W.PDF


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 26, 2014)

terrible one said:


> Not sure where you're getting 80k
> Starting pay is around 51k for firefighter. With lots of OT you can make 80k but SBcoFD starting pay is no where near 80k. In fact no department in SBco starts at 80k, even Ontario and they are the highest paid.
> 
> http://www.sbcounty.gov/hr/EmpOpp_JobTitles.aspx
> http://www.ci.ontario.ca.us/ftp/RecurringRPTS/O_HR010W.PDF



My old partner got hired with city as a FF/Medic. His starting pay is over 80k


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## terrible one (Jun 26, 2014)

Are you talking about city or county? 

City:
http://www.ci.san-bernardino.ca.us/cityhall/hr/job_classifications_and_salaries.asp
After probation $6,195 monthly (74k)

Still way over paid for a city that can't keep it's doors open.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 26, 2014)

terrible one said:


> Are you talking about city or county?
> 
> City:
> http://www.ci.san-bernardino.ca.us/cityhall/hr/job_classifications_and_salaries.asp
> ...



It's fire medic which also has a max of 7,931k monthly. He must not have been started at the minimum. 

SB City. He sent me a picture of his employment offer and it was around 86K starting (that's also what one of the departments in my area pays)


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## terrible one (Jun 26, 2014)

Ridiculous. Well the way SB city is going that isn't likely to last long.


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## DesertMedic66 (Jun 26, 2014)

terrible one said:


> Ridiculous. Well the way SB city is going that isn't likely to last long.



Nope, but it's not a horrible deal. Make a lot of money while you are there. When/if you get laid off you can say you have paid experience as a firefighter medic which always looks really good on a résumé.


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 26, 2014)

When I started at AMR in 2011 it was pre-union at $9.59/hr on 12's and $8.00/hr on 24's.

Granted now it is probably as you say, a dollar or two more.... But Jesus, look at that announcement! That is still not enough to live on in that area. Rediculous "non represented" aka non-union. And what a measly pay rate... Jeeze.... 

I think this is the beginning of the end of the post 9/11 "all firemen are heroes and should be paid like heroes" era. I see this trend spreading rampantly with the decline of the economy and the government budget folks realizing how much is actually spent on payroll for these guys. But even so, that rate is minuscule and rediculous. $25-$28 an hour would be fair for a medic. Tell me why nurses are making upwards of $35 an hour?


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## terrible one (Jun 26, 2014)

SandpitMedic said:


> Tell me why nurses are making upwards of $35 an hour?



Better union representation. IMO both nurses and firefighters in large cities in CA are overpaid.


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## Angel (Jun 26, 2014)

terrible one said:


> Better union representation. IMO both nurses and firefighters in large cities in CA are overpaid.



and demand....
i do not think at $35 its being overpaid, i know of nurses making $$ in the $50-60 range which is a BIT overpaid but if there was a better correlation with that compared to medics (IE medics starting in the $25-28) I dont think itd be that much of an issue. $10 hr no matter where you live to be a paramedic is a slap in the face


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## terrible one (Jun 26, 2014)

I think 50/60k starting is very reasonable for RNs or FDs in CA. 50/60 an hour is well over 100k, I can't see hospitals staffing for very long paying nurses those wages.


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## TacomaGirl (Jun 26, 2014)

terrible one said:


> Better union representation. IMO both nurses and firefighters in large cities in CA are overpaid.




Supply vs. Demand.  Nurses make much more in the hospital setting and usually better benefits.

I took quite a paycut to work prehospital but wouldn't trade working two 24's a week, self-scheduling, and ultimately being valued/appreciated by my employer.

I am sorry you feel nurses are overpaid.  Where I work, I make $10 more an hour than our medics; however, my coworkers have always made me feel their equal and we appreciate each other for our skills, teamwork and dedication.


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## Angel (Jun 27, 2014)

terrible one said:


> I think 50/60k starting is very reasonable for RNs or FDs in CA. 50/60 an hour is well over 100k, I can't see hospitals staffing for very long paying nurses those wages.




it sounds ridiculous but i sat in a room of these nurses (no new grads) and the hourly salary they stated was closer to $60 but for the sake of argument I dropped it down to 50. CCT RNs where i currently work START at 45 so its not completely out of the question.
Sounds pretty awesome if you ask me.


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## Bullets (Jun 27, 2014)

Job market out there sounds pretty rough. Even the private IFTs around here usually start EMTs at 10-12hr, 911s are in the 14-18hrs range, and medics start at 18 and go up from there. Some agencies are paying their perdiem CCRN trucks upwards of 50-60hr. 

But i guess thats what comes with the high cost of living in the Northeast

i always found private 911 EMS a weird concept, i cant imagine contracting police service to a private company....all about home rule and local control around here


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## Uclabruin103 (Jun 27, 2014)

onrope said:


> The AO jobs that were flown are going to replace FF/PMs and LTs on boxes in existing county service areas.
> 
> As far as bidding on the ambulance contract I wouldn't be surprised to see it broken down like LA years back, County picks up areas while Desert/Baker/MBA retain theirs and AMR loses some.



LT's make less than AOs, wonder why they would change their staffing model.


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## onrope (Jun 27, 2014)

Uclabruin103 said:


> LT's make less than AOs, wonder why they would change their staffing model.



Actually they don't, LTs start at 10.13 for EMT 11.13 for PM. They are doing this to increase staffing on engines and get FF off boxes. It also means the jobs, KSA, testing, are all in place prior to a contract bid to greatly expand the County ambulance program.


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## terrible one (Jun 27, 2014)

TacomaGirl said:


> Supply vs. Demand.  Nurses make much more in the hospital setting and usually better benefits.
> 
> I took quite a paycut to work prehospital but wouldn't trade working two 24's a week, self-scheduling, and ultimately being valued/appreciated by my employer.
> 
> I am sorry you feel nurses are overpaid.  Where I work, I make $10 more an hour than our medics; however, my coworkers have always made me feel their equal and we appreciate each other for our skills, teamwork and dedication.



Do you live in CA? There's a 2-4 year waiting list for most nursing schools. I'm also seeing a trend that most hospitals won't take anyone without several years experience because they have so many applicants. There isn't a supply issue here.


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## TacomaGirl (Jun 29, 2014)

terrible one said:


> Do you live in CA? There's a 2-4 year waiting list for most nursing schools. I'm also seeing a trend that most hospitals won't take anyone without several years experience because they have so many applicants. There isn't a supply issue here.



You are comparing apples to oranges in my humble opinion.  I have worked in California as a traveler and while there is a nursing glut, there is a shortage of experienced and qualified nurses.  You can't work fresh out of school or with minimal experience in pre-hospital.  At least I haven't experienced that in my career as a nurse, yet. 

Your opinion is respected; however, I can politely disagree in the sentiment that nurses are "overpaid".


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 30, 2014)

Coming from the nurse...


That's like the king saying "I don't have _that_ much power."


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## Uclabruin103 (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm trying to apply as a medic to san bernardino amr when they open up. How is the relationship with fire out there?  Are they pretty good with treatment? I.e. pain or other comfort measures. Or are they like other departments and stingy with their morphine.


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## Angel (Jun 30, 2014)

I don't think nurses are overpaid. I think in comparison medics are underpaid which is probably why people think that. I am not a nurse and not biased. 
It's not secret medics don't make anywhere near what they deserve. IMO too much supply not enough demand and low education standards are the reason


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## 46Young (Jun 30, 2014)

Nurses spend more time and money on education than medics, often with rigorous acceptance standards into the program, before being able to practice. This is why nurses get paid more than medics, that and better organization. Organization is also why police and fire get paid better than EMS in many places. Matter of fact, I became a medic rather than a nurse because it was only one year of school vs. three years.

It's natural for people to be envious of those that have better pay and benefits than them. I see it all the time with so many people demonizing government workers, pensions, etc. I've heard that in Vegas, the firefighters get their cars vandalized while on shift because the public hates them so much because they're getting paid so well while everyone else is suffering financially.


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## SandpitMedic (Jun 30, 2014)

46Young said:


> I've heard that in Vegas, the firefighters get their cars vandalized while on shift because the public hates them so much because they're getting paid so well while everyone else is suffering financially.




Never heard or seen this in Vegas. If it were true they all wouldn't have FD license plates and FD stickers all other their personal monster trucks and cars like they do.


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