# NREMT imposter



## ffdanpburg20 (May 18, 2009)

Hello I run as a volunteer FF and EMT in the Pittsburgh PA area. In one of the surrounding departments, we have a person wearing an NREMT-I patch when they are not an NREMT-I (the state doesn't even recognize that level).

They are currently registered as a Basic-EMT. We did contact the NREMT, and they revoked that person's NREMT certification, but said that they couldn't do any more as it was technically not illegal. 

To my knowledge, this person has no exceeded their scope of practice, but is there anything else we can do? He frequently shows up on scene ordering our guys around (we run BLS runs only here), and frankly we are tired of it.

Thank you ^_^


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## JPINFV (May 18, 2009)

If he is not dispatched to the scene, then he is not a part of the response. Check local and state laws to see if interfering with an emergency crew is illegal.


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## ffdanpburg20 (May 18, 2009)

JP, thanks for replying sir. We did call the deputies, and they talked to this guy but he always says he is just passing by when the call comes in. Since he is a certified EMT, the police said there wasn't much we could do except ask him to leave.


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## VGFDEMT34 (May 18, 2009)

Have you tried writing a letter, or having a lawyer write a cease and desist order? He has no right to show up on your calls, and interfere with your department's operations.

As far as the NREMT stuff goes, I don't think you'll be able to do much there unless he exceeds his scope of practice. Because the NREMT is a private organization, their titles aren't protected by criminal law. Civil, however, is another story. Also, as the NREMT has already done, they may terminate current certification or prevent him from taking any future examiniations. 

Their site, NREMT.org, may be able to offer some insight into their disciplinary policies.

To recap, you should contact an attorney, and try that route. If that doesn't work, you could try to video tape him being at your calls. If he continues following you guys, you may be able to get some type of restraining order against him, making his conduct illegal.

Best of luck!


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## Aidey (May 18, 2009)

Also report him to the state of PA EMS board (or who ever governs EMS in PA). They will probably also yank his cert. Once that happens he will no longer be a certified EMT, then you can call the deputies and report him for interfering with an emergency crew.


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## rescuebill (May 18, 2009)

I don't know specifically what PA's statutes say, but just because you are an EMT, Paramedic, or a Boy Scout with the First Aid Merit Badge, doesn't mean that you can't interfer with a scene.

In Maryland a couple of years ago, 2 firefighters got into a fist fight at a fire, and both were charged with interferring with a fire fighter doing his duty. 

I don't recal if there were any convictions, or if the 2 plead out or what, but like I said, he can be an EMT, and be interferring with you operations !!


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## AJ Hidell (May 20, 2009)

ffdanpburg20 said:


> They are currently registered as a Basic-EMT. We did contact the NREMT, and they revoked that person's NREMT certification, but said that they couldn't do any more as it was technically not illegal.


Revoked what certification?  Was he at one time an NREMT-I?  Or was he an NREMT-B who just found an I patch on eBay?

Regardless, your state probably has a law making certain titles legally protected, which may outlaw his representation of the title by any means.  Best check with them.


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## mycrofft (May 20, 2009)

*Getting branched out here.*

1. "Interfering at a scene"...this scene control thing has been whacked to death, but if a freelance shows up at the scene and he's the lead neurosurgeon from then Mayo Clinic, if you need him out, then out he is supposed to be. 
2. "Not illegal"...you do not know until you have talked to legal authority. Maybe your County EMS has received complaints about him? (If not, start now). If he is representing himself as being CERTIFIED (by wearing the patch, making utterances, etc) to anything above "lookie-lou" bystander status at any scne, he may be guilty under the State's licensing laws. 
Also, sometime he shows up, ooch over and check out his car for scanners. MANY states bar individuals from even having scanners in their cars capable of monitoring emergency services, or at least using it to respond to scenes. I will also bet you a Twinkie this person's car has materials in it either requiring medical direction to use in your state (like oxygen, airways, IV's), or stolen from an employer or vollie dept he has been affiliated with.

Above all, have the scene boss and a couple guys quietly explain to him that he is not making points with you guys, that his energy and concern are appreciated, so maybe he would like to show up at your next fundraising event or tryouts to become a firefighter, but that if he shows up at a scene again a deuce and a half might get charged pointing at his car...


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## biggee72 (May 20, 2009)

I don't understand..If a NREMT approached me or anyone for that matter other than an officer or paramedic I'd A. Be in shock and B. ask who they think they were.  Just tell him to go away.


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## DV_EMT (May 20, 2009)

well,

If this dude was willing to help it'd be one thing, but....

1. he's false credentialing himself
2. he's trying to run the scene when he's not "actually" the head honcho
3. It's interfering with your emergency opperations


I know that I've shown up on a scene before and acted as a first responder untill AMR and/or Fire shows up... but thats the extent that I do. I'm off duty and therefore my actions should be minimal until the on-duty guys show up. 

A prime example of what's ok to do:

I was 2 weeks ago when i was sitting in traffic at an intersection (the fire had just broke out). i noticed that nobody was moving on a green light. I heard sirens in the distance, pulled forward a bit and saw a smashed car in the intersection. so i grabed my gloves, turned my emergency flashers on, and went out to see if everyone was ok. everyone was fine. AMR showed up about 1 minute after and I let them do the rest. I stood by just in case then needed help... but that was it.

had i started ordering people around... and stating i was a paramedic, doctor, nurse, or other.... completely out of line


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## ffdanpburg20 (May 30, 2009)

DV_EMT said:


> well,
> 
> If this dude was willing to help it'd be one thing, but....
> 
> ...



And that's exactly how we feel! If he wanted to show up, and actually run first responder/assist us with loading the patient and such, that would be great...we're just tired of showing up and this guy trying to boss us around in front of other departments, the patient, and their family


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## AJ Hidell (May 30, 2009)

The solution is simple.  Next time you see him on a scene, get a cop's attention, point to the guy, and say _"he needs to go"_.  It has always worked for me.  Never even had the officer ask for any explanation.  If he mouths off to the cop, he'll get more than he's bargained for, and you'll never see him again.


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## Chimpie (May 30, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> The solution is simple.  Next time you see him on a scene, get a cop's attention, point to the guy, and say _"he needs to go"_.  It has always worked for me.  Never even had the officer ask for any explanation.  If he mouths off to the cop, he'll get more than he's bargained for, and you'll never see him again.



I agree.  ffdanpburg20, you probably have someone on your department who is a liaison with your local pd/sheriff/etc.  Have that person start talking to them about what is going on and that there may be a time where someone on your dept/agency will ask to have someone removed.

At least they will have a little heads up on what is going on, if they don't already.


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## fma08 (Jun 1, 2009)

ffdanpburg20 said:


> JP, thanks for replying sir. We did call the deputies, and they talked to this guy but he always says he is *just passing by* when the call comes in. Since he is a certified EMT, the police said there wasn't much we could do except ask him to leave.



Is that what he calls listening to his scanner?

He's not an EMT-I (according to the registry), therefore, as long as you or your partners are there first, they have the authority at the scene, not him (If I understand the rule correctly). It's time for some PD involvement if he's just trying to boss you guys around, especially if he's compromising patient care in some way... He lost his I cert for a reason I'm assuming.


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## Tincanfireman (Jun 1, 2009)

Has the director/boss/honcho of your organization been made aware of the situation?  Sometimes a phone call between your leadership and the local sheriff or police chief can do wonders. If the local law enforcement hear about this guy from their end, they can be aware of the situation before-hand, instead of in the confusion and disorder of a scene. I'll add a +1 to the scanner theory; no one "just passes by" multiple scenes on pure luck.


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## Hockey (Jun 1, 2009)

Ah the mother of ALL whackers!


Finally found I see


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## LAS46 (Jun 1, 2009)

Also with this guy showing up on a scene unauthorized EMT or not he is also violating your patents right to confidentiality. You really need to see legal help in this matter from your local judicial system.


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## JPINFV (Jun 1, 2009)

Hockey9019 said:


> Ah the mother of ALL whackers!
> 
> 
> Finally found I see









This thread could use a little Super Troopers.


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## Tincanfireman (Jun 1, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> This thread could use a little Super Troopers.



We do have a Farva...


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## fma08 (Jun 1, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> This thread could use a little Super Troopers.



All threads could use a little Super Troopers B)


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## MedicSetla (Jun 3, 2009)

If he only knew he was doing us more harm than good.  I agree with MyCrofft and if he is not dispatched to he call... He has no right to be be there, it is our directive to make sure the scene runs smoothly and we can remove anyone who jeopardizes that...  Be firm and tell him to leave!


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