# Hospital Staff Yelling at You



## pwtdkk71 (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm a paramedic working for a fire department in a big city. I have been a medic for nearly 14 years. I love my job but of all these years, the biggest disappointment I have is the following....

** Nurses and doctors ( mostly nurses ) being rude to me because I inconvienced them for bringing them a patient or yelling at me because I didn't start a propholactic IV on a 90 year old lady c/o general weakness who was otherwise stable. I guess I thought medics and hospital staff were all tight and friendly since we all work together. It's the opposite in a lot of the hospitals I bring my patients to. Yes, if I make a major error..i.e, drug error or some other major error, call my superiors because I needed to be educated/reprimanded. But if it's because my patient had some kind of condition that I would have no way of knowing out in the field...i.e, head bleed from a sneeze or cardiac issue when they only complained of shoulder pain after I ran a 12 lead and was negative and I sent them BLS.....why don't they contact me directly so I can learn from my mistakes and have a working relationship with them...not cause hostility cause they go right to my superiors to complain about me. I'm tired of these nurses having bad attitudes when all I am doing is bringing them business. 

I have called nurses out and told my superiors who called the ED Manager to talk to their employees. It may change for a month or so..but eventually they all go back to being jerks. I tell them it must be nice to have a nice, clean, controlled environment to work on patients. Try being on a side of a freeway at 1 in the morning in the dark with a car on its side and cars going by you at 80 mph and working on someone....

Are today's nurses being told they are our bosses? Anyone have any suggestions?


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## VFlutter (Feb 16, 2014)

pwtdkk71 said:


> I tell them it must be nice to have a nice, clean, controlled environment to work on patients. Try being on a side of a freeway at 1 in the morning in the dark with a car on its side and cars going by you at 80 mph and working on someone....



Don't be "That Guy"...









pwtdkk71 said:


> Are today's nurses being told they are our bosses? Anyone have any suggestions?



Most RNs are not really told much about EMS in school. Outside of the ER most do not know the difference between an EMT and a Paramedic.

Can you be more specific on what they have said to you or complained about? Although there are some Nurses out there with bad attitudes most are not rude and yell for no reason. 

Best advice I can give is kill them with kindness and try to see what you can do on your end to make the interaction better. Unless they are truly unprofessional and disrespectful then by all means talk to your supervisor.


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## mycrofft (Feb 16, 2014)

An evil culture has arisen at that ED. Good luck with that. 

Remember that anyone who isn't "yelling" will not be noticed. By that token, it will always seem everyone is yelling if they number more than, say, two.

The change has to be between your boss and their boss, but individuals on each side will need to be patient and sweet and all that until a new paradigm is adopted, or the good people quit and leave them to play with themselves.


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## pwtdkk71 (Feb 16, 2014)

I think the word "yelling" in the literal sense was a little inaccurate on my part. I think more accurate would be scolding,complaining, or condesending. Of course it's not all of the ED Staff because there are some great nurses and doctors. But a higher % than one would think lurks out there against medics and EMTs. I did have a friend tell me he believes nurses are "jealous" because we can do things on standing orders while they cannot. Yes, there are lazy medics and EMTs out there who do the bare minimum at best and that would be frustrating to the ED Staff accepting the patient....let alone the care the patient deserved before hospital arrival that they did not get.

My frustration is when I as well as my co-workers, are treated with hostility and threats because we didn't start a prophlactic IV on a 400 lb person who has stable V/S or wasn't able to catch the ICB from a patient whos only complaint was an earache. How would I know the pt has bleed from that especially if their medical hx was none? If I activated the stroke receiving center for every earache, they would have my you know what in a sling. 

And if I call the hospital to find out what happened to a pt. I brought in, you'd think I was trying to get their ATM pin numbers! "Can't tell you, HIPPA, that nurse went home, can't find patient in system, I'm busy, tell your boss to call my boss!"   Same excuses all the time.

How do we grow in our knowledge as medics when we don't see the outcome of the patients? I tell the nurses you don't have time to tell me the outcome of the patient, but you have the time to call my bosses and complain about me or my care ( or perceived lack of ).......funny how you have time for that.


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## VFlutter (Feb 16, 2014)

pwtdkk71 said:


> ] I did have a friend tell me he believes nurses are "jealous" because we can do things on standing orders while they cannot.



Sorry, but this made me :rofl:


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## mycrofft (Feb 17, 2014)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwtdkk71  View Post
] I did have a friend tell me he believes nurses are "jealous" because we can do things on standing orders while they cannot.
Sorry, but this made me :rofl: 

Speaking as a nurse and former EMT, you may hear that a lot but the originator is ignorant or malicious*.

Nurses get to do various amounts and with varying degrees of autonomy except for two things: they must follow their standardized procedures or protocols, and their work is overseen and signed off by a physician. I know nurses who basically execute MD's orders all day and oversee subordinates. I on the other hand had an inches-thick binder of SPs and saw up to 50 odd patients a day to screen and in some cases order and treat. All depends on what you can perform and where you work.

Nurses may be envious of field folks "driving around, eating hamburgers, picking up and dropping off patients and doing stuff to irritate us". But when most think about EMT's at all, it is to wish they were more in tune with the realities of the ED, and in some cases, as people they can bully about as some sort of underling. Others do both, use the excuse or occasion of necessary feedback to act patronizing or superior.

Personally, I think clinical feedback should be from the MD, and anything a nurse says to a a field technician (I include emts, paramedics and etc's) ought to be collegial and above-board. 

* Malicious: stirring trouble. Ignorant: in need of some information, which is readily addressed if the subject will listen and believe.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 17, 2014)

pwtdkk71 said:


> My frustration is when I as well as my co-workers, are treated with hostility and threats because we didn't start a prophlactic IV on a 400 lb person who has stable V/S



Define prophylactic. If the patient needed medication or fluid for symptom relied and you didn't do it because it's "not your job to treat pain or nausea" than you deserve every bit of crap you catch.   



pwtdkk71 said:


> or wasn't able to catch the ICB from a patient whos only complaint was an earache. How would I know the pt has bleed from that especially if their medical hx was none? If I activated the stroke receiving center for every earache, they would have my you know what in a sling.


My honest guess here is the patient had some other signs and symptoms with that "earache" that you overlooked. MOST ED staff I've dealt with understand when you get caught by the truly occult issue. Unfortunately far too much stuff is missed because a large percentage of medics write problems off as malingering if it doesn't slap them in the face.   



pwtdkk71 said:


> And if I call the hospital to find out what happened to a pt. I brought in, you'd think I was trying to get their ATM pin numbers! "Can't tell you, HIPPA, that nurse went home, can't find patient in system, I'm busy, tell your boss to call my boss!"   Same excuses all the time.
> 
> How do we grow in our knowledge as medics when we don't see the outcome of the patients? I tell the nurses you don't have time to tell me the outcome of the patient, but you have the time to call my bosses and complain about me or my care ( or perceived lack of ).......funny how you have time for that.


Probably due to poor relations with staff...

I'm going to be honest. You sound like a guy who's trying to improve but you're using all the same old tired EMS cliches. "Controlled environment", "No CT", "Jealous"....it's all bull excrement. All of it. The fact is as a medic you're undereducated and over-confident due to training. The out and out bufoonery our colleagues engage in on a regular basis doesn't help. Be humble and realize even a second year EM resident or nurse would be far better than most medics in the field with a small amount of training. 

Or, there's a good possibility you're trolling, in which case


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## mycrofft (Feb 17, 2014)

"How would I know the pt has bleed from that especially if their medical hx was none?" 

Otoscopy maybe. Have one? Trained/certified in using one?
 (A real otoscope is an expensive tool but I think anyone looking down throats and into ears needs training and to have one available).


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## NomadicMedic (Feb 17, 2014)

You may notice when you start treating the nurses with respect and give them information that they need in a concise manner, the yelling stops.  

If you appropriately treat patients, the yelling stops. 

If you're honest when you walk into the emergency room with a patient and say, "I have no idea what's going on here. But I started a line and drew some bloods." There's not much anybody can say that.

In other words, do your job and be a nice guy… And you'll never have issues with nurses.  

(The one caveat is some nurses are just evil monsters. They fight with everybody.)


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## mycrofft (Feb 17, 2014)

Agreed. Can I frame that?


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## VFlutter (Feb 17, 2014)

DEmedic said:


> (The one caveat is some nurses are just evil monsters. They fight with everybody.)



Like me? :unsure:


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## NomadicMedic (Feb 17, 2014)

You were who I had in mind.


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## medichopeful (Feb 17, 2014)

pwtdkk71 said:


> I did have a friend tell me he believes nurses are "jealous" because we can do things on standing orders while they cannot.



Have your friend go spend a day in an ICU or some EDs and see what he thinks about this statement at the end of the day


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 17, 2014)

pwtdkk71 said:


> I did have a friend tell me he believes nurses are "jealous" because we can do things on standing orders while they cannot.



I can assure you that 99.99% of the time, this is NOT the problem. 

Most nurses don't know what EMT's and Paramedics do, and couldn't care less.  




pwtdkk71 said:


> Yes, there are lazy medics and EMTs out there who do the bare minimum at best and that would be frustrating to the ED Staff accepting the patient....



This and lousy, too-long reports are a big part of the problem. 

Another part of the problem is that a busy ED is a ridiculously high stress, miserable place to work, and people who work there tend to be cranky.

Neither of those is justification for treating you badly, of course.




pwtdkk71 said:


> And if I call the hospital to find out what happened to a pt. I brought in, you'd think I was trying to get their ATM pin numbers! "Can't tell you, HIPPA, that nurse went home, can't find patient in system, I'm busy, tell your boss to call my boss!"   Same excuses all the time.



This is probably a system problem that has nothing to do with the individuals you approach asking for info. The people you approach don't know you from Adam, and are probably instructed to NOT give patient info to ANYONE. Even if they do know you and are allowed to help you, they are probably too busy. 

Your service needs to set up a formal mechanism for gathering follow-up information. Just walking up to someone sitting at a computer is not the way to do it.


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## CentralCalEMT (Feb 17, 2014)

It sounds like it could be a huge miscommunication problem more than anything.

If you work in a big city EMS system is it possibly because many nurses do not know the medics on a personal level? They probably see 20 different ALS units and like 30 different paramedics every day and never get to know anyone. Therefore you all become faces in a crowd. Perhaps your or another department that transports there has several crappy medics who therefore make everyone in the crowd look bad. Then when the nurses see paramedics they think they are idiots. Not that it justifies any unprofessional behavior but that is what happens. My area has less than 20 full time paramedics so we are known by name so it's a little different in smaller areas. 

Also, the nurses were not on scene with you. All they know is a bleed or cardiac event showed up BLS. They do not know if you asked one question or 30. All they know is a supposedly low acuity patient became a lot more serious and will tie up a lot more resources. You might have asked 30 questions as you seem to want to be a good paramedic, but we all know that lazy medic that doesn't. Perhaps they expect IVs on patients that you know will need fluids/CT scans/meds at the hospital as a courtesy to them since they are really busy but they do not know your protocols and what they say about IVs. All they see is paramedic X does not start IVs while paramedic Y does on those patients. Do you have a EMS liaison that might be able to set up an inservice or other training for the hospital about what you do? Many of the RNs in the area I work have rode along with us and this has increased understanding and mutual respect. 

Again, there is no justification for unprofessional behavior but sometimes it is just a bunch of miscommunication.


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## DrParasite (Feb 17, 2014)

Halothane said:


> Most nurses don't know what EMT's and Paramedics do, and couldn't care less.


which is one of the problems... And not for nothing, it's an issue on the nurse's side, not on the side of EMS.  I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink...despite the fact that is it insisting that I deal with the horse day in and day out. 





Halothane said:


> This and lousy, too-long reports are a big part of the problem.
> 
> Another part of the problem is that a busy ED is a ridiculously high stress, miserable place to work, and people who work there tend to be cranky.
> 
> Neither of those is justification for treating you badly, of course.


I'll agree with everything you said.  The same can also be said for incredibly busy EMS systems.


CentralCalEMT said:


> It sounds like it could be a huge miscommunication problem more than anything.
> 
> If you work in a big city EMS system is it possibly because many nurses do not know the medics on a personal level? They probably see 20 different ALS units and like 30 different paramedics every day and never get to know anyone. Therefore you all become faces in a crowd. Perhaps your or another department that transports there has several crappy medics who therefore make everyone in the crowd look bad. Then when the nurses see paramedics they think they are idiots. Not that it justifies any unprofessional behavior but that is what happens. My area has less than 20 full time paramedics so we are known by name so it's a little different in smaller areas.


bingo.  when you are an unknown, you tend to get a lot of crap.  when you know their first name, you get treated better.  when they know yours, even better.  when you have seen them dancing on the bar at the christmas party, that you were invited too, well, you get the idea.

I used to work in a small urban city (about 6 sq miles).  I knew most of the nurses.  they knew me.  they knew I know my job, and I knew what I was doing.  The doctors knew me by face, if not by name.   Other healthcare providers are more willing to pull you aside to discuss an issue when they actually know who you are and will see you in a few days, vs a nameless provider who they easiest way is to contact your supervisor and have them investigate.


CentralCalEMT said:


> Also, the nurses were not on scene with you. All they know is a bleed or cardiac event showed up BLS. They do not know if you asked one question or 30. All they know is a supposedly low acuity patient became a lot more serious and will tie up a lot more resources. You might have asked 30 questions as you seem to want to be a good paramedic, but we all know that lazy medic that doesn't. Perhaps they expect IVs on patients that you know will need fluids/CT scans/meds at the hospital as a courtesy to them since they are really busy but they do not know your protocols and what they say about IVs. All they see is paramedic X does not start IVs while paramedic Y does on those patients. Do you have a EMS liaison that might be able to set up an inservice or other training for the hospital about what you do? Many of the RNs in the area I work have rode along with us and this has increased understanding and mutual respect.


wah wah wah, poor babies.  so sick patients never show up at the ER triage doors?  That they need to devote a lot of resources too?   I don't buy it.

I will say this: if you have a sick patient, as a courtesy, you shouldn't show up at the ER doors and say "here you go."  Call ahead, let them know you have a sick patient.



CentralCalEMT said:


> Again, there is no justification for unprofessional behavior but sometimes it is just a bunch of miscommunication.


agreed


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## mycrofft (Feb 18, 2014)

We had a problem in Omaha, in that the report form was one of those legal size, fit everything onto the front type forms so packed with tiny data blanks to fill they resembled the old fashioned theater fire curtains:


I actually looked back and watched the ER's lead nurse throw our form out as they started all over again.
Looking back, I don't blame them, but they needed to talk to us and our boss about it


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## DCAPBLSTIC (Feb 19, 2014)

*New Nurses*

I would guess as well Nursing is not what it used to be with the massive retiring age and demand for new nurses schools sometimes don't screen candidates to the full potential.


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## mycrofft (Feb 19, 2014)

Teaching nurses to be nice to field people is not even on their minds, students nor schools.


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## Airlinepilotmedic (Feb 19, 2014)

I work for a busy, mid-size, urban Fire Dept in Southern California.  We have our own ALS ambulance transports, staffed with 2 FF/medics.  On average 85% of our calls get transported to the same large county hospital.  We are fortunate that our Dept Medical Director is also a senior fellow and attending physician at the same hospital.  A few years back he implemented a once a year ride out program for all ED staff including RN, PA, MD ect...  

The 12 hour ride out tremendously helped us build a closer cohesion, understanding and respect for each other.  The ER MD, PA, and RN's gain a better understanding and respect for practicing in "the field" and how different and dynamic it can be.  On the flip side we are able to pick their brains and find out what we can do on our end to make their jobs easier.  

A few weeks back I had an anesthesiologist riding out with us on a CPR, I offered to let him get the tube, but since the guy was wedged in the back of a trailer with little light he politely declined.  He joked afterword that he will stick to intubations in a well lit surgical suite.  Conversely, he provided us with some great techniques to use on difficult airways.

Since the program was implemented we have had zero issues between ourselves and the ED staff.  If anything it has helped us become better at our own jobs by opening the lines of communication so both ends are open to constructive criticism and creating an environment of being on the same team, compared to the us vs them mentality that used to be so prevalent.


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## VFlutter (Feb 19, 2014)

DCAPBLSTIC said:


> I would guess as well Nursing is not what it used to be with the massive retiring age and demand for new nurses schools sometimes don't screen candidates to the full potential.



??


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 19, 2014)

DCAPBLSTIC said:


> I would guess as well Nursing is not what it used to be with the massive retiring age and demand for new nurses schools sometimes don't screen candidates to the full potential.



Massive retiring? Where?

In my neck of the woods, there is at least a year long waiting list to get into most nursing programs.....that's AFTER you show that you have all the pre-reqs.


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## mycrofft (Feb 19, 2014)

Airlinepilotmedic said:


> I work for a busy, mid-size, urban Fire Dept in Southern California.  We have our own ALS ambulance transports, staffed with 2 FF/medics.  On average 85% of our calls get transported to the same large county hospital.  We are fortunate that our Dept Medical Director is also a senior fellow and attending physician at the same hospital.  A few years back he implemented a once a year ride out program for all ED staff including RN, PA, MD ect...
> 
> The 12 hour ride out tremendously helped us build a closer cohesion, understanding and respect for each other.  The ER MD, PA, and RN's gain a better understanding and respect for practicing in "the field" and how different and dynamic it can be.  On the flip side we are able to pick their brains and find out what we can do on our end to make their jobs easier.
> 
> ...



Excellent!!


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## mycrofft (Feb 19, 2014)

Halothane said:


> Massive retiring? Where?
> 
> In my neck of the woods, there is at least a year long waiting list to get into most nursing programs.....that's AFTER you show that you have all the pre-reqs.



Nurses retiring from work doesn't equate to more slots and lowered prereqs in nursing schools.

Now, mandatory staffing ratios at hospitals do. Locally the major nurse employers got cozy with the schools and all sorts of ways to stuff people through were devised, including bridge courses for LVN's, being able to take you final one again if you failed it once (!!!), and classes to learn medical English as a second language for our many many nurses hired from overseas advertising.


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 19, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> Now, mandatory staffing ratios at hospitals do. Locally the major nurse employers got cozy with the schools and all sorts of ways to stuff people through were devised, including bridge courses for LVN's, being able to take you final one again if you failed it once (!!!), and classes to learn medical English as a second language for our many many nurses hired from overseas advertising.



That's too bad. Luckily it isn't at all like that in most places. 

California is in it's own little universe.


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## mycrofft (Feb 19, 2014)

We're number 6! We're number 6!

(#6 economy in the world, according to some).


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## Summit (Feb 20, 2014)

DCAPBLSTIC said:


> I would guess as well Nursing is not what it used to be with the massive retiring age and demand for new nurses schools sometimes don't screen candidates to the full potential.



Most of the paramedic schools around here had open slots such that the P school I wanted to go to as a backup to nursing school offered to get me into the Paramedic AAS program even though it was past the application deadline and 6 weeks until the start of the program. Basically, meet the prereqs (EMT, 1 year experience, IV, EKG), and you can pick your program whether it is cert or AAS.

Nursing schools are pretty much the polar opposite. My program had a 5% acceptance rate for qualified applicants (junior standing with prereqs, >3.0). The community colleges on standard admissions have 2-3 year waitlists for qualified applicants and the merit based programs have 25% acceptance rates (>2.5, prereqs, sophmore standing). The only places that have high acceptance rates are the shadier for-profit schools, but most of their grads are not working working in the ED... or the hospital. This is not a situation unique to certain areas, but is true across most areas. Though there are many highly qualified applicants applying to out of state schools in regions that were slightly less competitive. Even more top notch new grad RNs moved to North Dakota or west Texas to find their first hospital job.

In summary, in most of the country, there is no nursing shortage, only a shortage of some types of experienced specialty nurses. Nursing is an extremely competitive field both academically and in the job market.


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## topemttraining (Feb 27, 2014)

The main culprit for such unpleasant scenario is hospitals and nursing homes because they overburden nurses and doctors with extra work load to earn more money. Nurses become frustrated and loose temper when they find additional work on top of their existing overburden. The result is they forget the greatest quality of a noble nurse or doctor is - caring, calm, understanding, sympathetic, emotional stability, empathy for the pain and suffering of patients, ready to respond quickly to emergencies and other situations, and respecting people and rules.


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## mycrofft (Feb 27, 2014)

You know, the overarching concern from the thread's title is why in a modern professional workplace are people yelling at_ anyone_? Why don't or can't the subjects of this effectively complain? Why can't any valid complaints about patient care (the reason everyone gets to dress up and show up) be addressed systematically and not by taking someone into a corner and creating a hostile work environment?


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## Household6 (Feb 27, 2014)

I caught this vid while looking for food prepping videos.. I thought it was quite good. I don't think it just applies to the medical field. 
Take it with a grain..

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGM9_BNR9jg[/YOUTUBE]


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## mycrofft (Feb 28, 2014)

Household6 said:


> I caught this vid while looking for food prepping videos.. I thought it was quite good. I don't think it just applies to the medical field.
> Take it with a grain..
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGM9_BNR9jg[/YOUTUBE]



I watched it and could sense her rage, wanted to giver her a hug. However, there was not a firm correlation between her observations (which I can verify many of) and why nurses act the way they do. 

More simply put, staff at any level who try to bully or castigate you need to be led to their boss and told to repeat what they said in front of that person. I don't care that we use the occasional Latin or Greek, I just expect to be treated ok for my shift each and every shift.

Her stance of concealing mistakes, and other stances she espouses on the internet (e.g., tying the "vaxers" [people who give vaccinations] to autism)make me very wary of her in other respects.  Sort of medical teaparrty stuff.


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## Carlos Danger (Feb 28, 2014)

There has actually been a lot of research into why nurses "eat their young". I had to read a fair amount of it during my BSN program. 

There are lots of contributing factors, and it is fairly interesting stuff from a sociological perspective, I guess. Plenty of hypotheses and complicated explanations out there.

What I think it comes down to is what we all know about women: groups of females often have a hard time getting along, and tend to make things tough for the new ones, especially if they are younger and prettier. FWIW, I have never seen a guy nurse have the problem of being "eaten", nor taking part in eating of other nurses. 

And when it comes to ED nurses being rude, as I said before, that's largely just because the ED is really a lousy place to be 40+ hours a week. Burned out paramedics can be rather unpleasant, too.


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## chaz90 (Feb 28, 2014)

Halothane said:


> And when it comes to ED nurses being rude, as I said before, that's largely just because the ED is really a lousy place to be 40+ hours a week. Burned out paramedics can be rather unpleasant, too.



I think this is an important point. Even from the possibly biased perspective of an exclusively pre-hospital provider, I see just as many examples of god-awful attitudes and behavior from EMS providers as I do ED nurses. Sometimes what we report as a "*****y nurse" is really just a nurse calling EMS out on piss poor care or actions without mincing words. This street goes both ways...


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## hogwiley (Mar 1, 2014)

I've spent a lot of time working with RNs as a CNA, tech, and phlebotomist in addition to having to deal with them as an EMT. You think EMS gets treated like crap, work as a tech for a while. I used to float as a tech to many different units in a large hospital. As a tech coming on to "their" unit, I found some things to be almost universal. 

Number 1 every nurse thinks their particular unit is the most overworked and underappreciated, even ones that were the easiest to work in the hospital. 2. The RNs were rarely helpful or friendly to the float techs, and were often borderline hostile. 3. Only if you work on that unit with the same RNs every day and generally do a good job(IE run your *** off all shift answering their call lights) will you gradually be accepted into their club.

Its a very cliquey environment, I swear when I work in a hospital I feel like im back in high school. The ER is probably the most cliquey of them all,(outside of the OR) with new people viewed as dangerous idiots until proven otherwise.


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## MonkeyArrow (Mar 1, 2014)

hogwiley said:


> Its a very cliquey environment, I swear when I work in a hospital I feel like im back in high school. The ER is probably the most cliquey of them all,(outside of the OR) with new people viewed as dangerous idiots until proven otherwise.



Well, not to sound like I'm supporting providers "yelling" at other providers but, I would kinda expect and want someone to be viewed as dangerous until proven otherwise. Isn't that what the hypothetical FTO period is for EMS? You get to ride around with an experienced provider until you have proven that you are not dangerous and will not kill anybody when you go out and run calls on your own. The ER and the OR, especially, are probably the two places in the hospital where a provider's actions make a direct and quick acting distinction between life and death (well, maybe the ICU too). So, I would want and expect someone to be vetted and kinda tested before they are allowed to "join the group" if it means the difference between life and death.


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## hogwiley (Mar 1, 2014)

I'll also add that during Paramedic clinicals, very few of the RNs have been genuinely helpful, and most pretty much ignore you. It has been a pretty frustrating experience, and getting clinical objectives and signatures has been an exercise in pleading, cajoling and pestering more than learning. The experience has been so overwhelmingly negative that I don't ever want to hear an RN at one of the hospitals I've been doing my time at EVER complain about a Paramedic again. Clinicals was their chance to correct problems they complain about and train us right, but that doesnt happened at all. All I can say is thank god for a field internship.

I also don't want to hear about how the RNs don't have time. When I worked as a tech I was pestered by student nurses many times, as were the RNs, and we were always helpful and polite(you could get written up if you did otherwise). RN students get the royal treatment compared to Paramedic students. It can be pretty annoying when you cant even access a patients chart to get some basic info, but you see an RN student being walked through and spoon fed everything by an RN preceptor.


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## NomadicMedic (Mar 1, 2014)

My best clinical experience was at Tacoma General Hospital. They use paramedics in the emergency department, and most of those guys precept the paramedic students. It was really good learning experience. We all got to do a lot of procedures and ran the rapid response team.

As far as the nurses yelling at the paramedics, as I said before, it all comes down to respect. Most of the nurses in our hospitals here understand our protocols, and why we do what we do. There's very little of the "Us versus them" snarkiness. Of course, everybody has a bad day and that can make people edgy…


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## mycrofft (Mar 1, 2014)

Halothane said:


> There has actually been a lot of research into why nurses "eat their young". I had to read a fair amount of it during my BSN program.
> 
> There are lots of contributing factors, and it is fairly interesting stuff from a sociological perspective, I guess. Plenty of hypotheses and complicated explanations out there.
> 
> ...



I heartily agree with your end statement.

I always suspect anything which starts with "as we all know". Such as "We all know male nurses are really gay".

As an RN can attest to being a male nurse picked on by female instructors as well as female and male coworkers.


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## Summit (Mar 1, 2014)

hogwiley - you have developed a very hardened attitude, and perhaps that is just the culture at your hospital, but if you don't think that it shines through and affects your interactions, you are fooling yourself.



MonkeyArrow said:


> The ER and the OR, especially, are probably the two places in the hospital where a provider's actions make a direct and quick acting distinction between life and death (well, maybe the ICU too).



*MAYBE* the ICU? :wacko:


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## joshrunkle35 (Mar 1, 2014)

Household6 said:


> I caught this vid while looking for food prepping videos.. I thought it was quite good. I don't think it just applies to the medical field.
> 
> Take it with a grain..
> 
> ...




Good video. Doing your part to prevent a workplace from becoming toxic is very important. It's hard to get it back. 

Having joy about why you are doing the job can go a long way.


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## mycrofft (Mar 1, 2014)

Summit said:


> hogwiley - you have developed a very hardened attitude, and perhaps that is just the culture at your hospital, but if you don't think that it shines through and affects your interactions, you are fooling yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> *MAYBE* the ICU? :wacko:



Don't be mad, Summit!


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## mycrofft (Mar 1, 2014)

I still argue that the bedrock essential distillation is that pissing on people at work is not alright. Especially if it is because you think they are inferior and/or you can get away with it. My take is that I'm here to do my best and help you do your best to meet mission and help patients, and if you have issues which interfere with that by being offensive, *I will not care *about your issues until you stop and we can get back to work.


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## ambo000 (Mar 22, 2014)

Tell em

'Never look down on a paramedic because one day you might be looking up at one'.

All the best!!


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 22, 2014)

Halothane said:


> Burned out paramedics can be rather unpleasant, too.




My girlfriend continuously points out how much more tolerable I am now that I've had a bunch of time away from the streets lol.


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## mycrofft (Mar 22, 2014)

ambo000 said:


> Tell em
> 
> 'Never look down on a paramedic because one day you might be looking up at one'.
> 
> All the best!!



There's a T-Shirt!


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## mycrofft (Mar 22, 2014)

Robb said:


> My girlfriend continuously points out how much more tolerable I am now that I've had a bunch of time away from the streets lol.



My better half of forty years says the same about my leaving the jails.

Not speaking to Robb directly, watch "Bring out the Dead" then remember that there is a whole real and relatively healthy world out there. Go watch a kids soccer game or attend a fair or something. Go bowling. Put down the stethoscope for a while.


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## Handsome Robb (Mar 22, 2014)

mycrofft said:


> My better half of forty years says the same about my leaving the jails.
> 
> Not speaking to Robb directly, watch "Bring out the Dead" then remember that there is a whole real and relatively healthy world out there. Go watch a kids soccer game or attend a fair or something. Go bowling. Put down the stethoscope for a while.



Quoted for emphasis. 

I forgot to do that. Almost prematurely ended my career. I learned a valuable lesson.

Work to live rather than live to work.


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## Saber2 (Apr 19, 2014)

Sorry Bro for the rudeness in my fellow nurses, I work Critical Care on an Ambulance and have to be EMT certified, I have worked both sides of that fence, you have to take it an individual at a time, maintain your composure, be professional when you want to pull out their hair, ask them politely if their charge  nurse is available to discuss the matter, or her boss, if appropriate, that usually gets their attention.  I think that sometimes nurses get .chewed out so it is the natural thing to pass it down the chain.


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