# College Class Hours?



## Summit (Mar 21, 2013)

NREMT's EMT recert brochure says:



			
				NREMT said:
			
		

> The following are maximum hours per course that
> can be applied towards Additional EMS Related
> Continuing Education hours:
> • A maximum number of 24 hours can be applied
> from any one topic area



But later they say:



			
				NREMT said:
			
		

> College Courses
> Hour for hour credit can be applied for college courses that relate to your role as an EMS professional (for example, but not limited to, anatomy, physiology, biology, chemistry, pharmacology, psychology, sociology, statistics, etc.)



So does that mean a class that met for 128 hours is only eligible for 24 hours of CE credit?

This is pure curiosity... I have more than enough CE hours.


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## MrJones (Mar 21, 2013)

I've always assumed that "hour for hour" refers to credit hours as opposed to clock hours, i.e. a 3 semester hour course would count for 3 hours of CE


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## Veneficus (Mar 21, 2013)

When I recertified twice doing that, I had the college calculate the actual in class hours of lecture, lab, and seminar, then I submitted that.

I got my card both times without incident.


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## Medic Tim (Mar 21, 2013)

Veneficus said:


> When I recertified twice doing that, I had the college calculate the actual in class hours of lecture, lab, and seminar, then I submitted that.
> 
> I got my card both times without incident.



I did this for my last recert ^^


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## Summit (Mar 21, 2013)

MrJones said:


> I've always assumed that "hour for hour" refers to credit hours as opposed to clock hours, i.e. a 3 semester hour course would count for 3 hours of CE



Are you kidding? That would make a 4 credit hour Physiology class (~128 clock hour) worth the same as 4 hours of extrication skills practice day at Boondocks County Volunteer Fire. By that logic, if you needed to recert EMT halfway through an AAS Paramedic Program, the paramedic classes wouldn't have enough semester hours to recert your NREMT!

24 hour EMT Refresher courses are often offered as 1 or 2 credit hour college classes by community colleges depending on whether they do semester hours, trimester hours, or quarter hours.

I am 100% certain you can count contact hours, not credit hours, but the question is can you count only up to 24 hours per course, or all lecture/lab contact hours?


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 21, 2013)

yes, I could only claim 12 hours for my P recert, even though I had hundreds of clock hours in university classes. 





Summit said:


> NREMT's EMT recert brochure says:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Veneficus (Mar 21, 2013)

Summit said:


> Are you kidding? That would make a 4 semester hour Physiology (~128 clock hour) worth the same as 4 hours of extrication skills practice day and Boondocks County Volunteer Fire. By that logic, if you needed to recert EMT halfway through an AAS Paramedic Program, the paramedic classes wouldn't have enough semester hours to recert your NREMT!
> 
> 24 hour EMT Refresher courses are often offered as 1 or 2 semester hour college classes by community colleges.
> 
> I am 100% you can count contact hours, not semester hours, but the question is can you count only up to 24 hours per course, or all lecture/lab contact hours?



I punted that question.

I simply sent in an itemized list of each class and the hours of it.

For example, physiology encompases every body system. I just sent I had a few hundred hours of physio, i didn't break it down into each system.

But you could always call and ask?


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## Summit (Mar 21, 2013)

I'm not motivated enough to call. This is just curiosity. I limited it to 24 hours per course and stopped bothering to enter CEs when I broke 300 hours.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 21, 2013)

The way I understand it, the maximum you can claim (for Paramedic) is 12 hours all together, not just per class, but they cap you at 12 clock hours awarded for any and all college or university classes that you say relate to EMS in anyway. Just because I have hundreds of clock hours in a seat from university does not mean I have to register them all with the NREMT, I don't... because all the classes together do not count for anything more than 12 hours total. 300 hours counts as 12 hours towards your recertification. (If i understand it correctly)


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## Summit (Mar 21, 2013)

schulz said:


> The way I understand it, the maximum you can claim (for Paramedic) is 12 hours all together, not just per class, but they cap you at 12 clock hours awarded for any and all college or university classes that you say relate to EMS in anyway. Just because I have hundreds of clock hours in a seat from university does not mean I have to register them all with the NREMT, I don't... because all the classes together do not count for anything more than 12 hours total. 300 hours counts as 12 hours towards your recertification. (If i understand it correctly)



300+ hours from college courses (10 classes, 40 semester credits, at no more than 24 hours per course with respect to the brochure saying no more than 24 hours in one subject area), conferences, skills days, ce lectures, online ce, in-services, instructing, case reviews, etc etc etc... I stopped entering before I went through my whole list.

What is your source for the 12 hour limit for courses? I don't see that in the brochure, just prohibitions against counting leadership/management courses and clinical hours.

On my last 3 recerts, I definitely counted 24 hours per college course (that was 2 credits or more) and had no issues. I'm just curious.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 21, 2013)

https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/reg_para_history.asp#Paramedic_Recertification

Scroll down to https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/reg_para_history.asp#Paramedic_Recertification and college courses.

From my understanding (using the Paramedic recertification model as an example)

We have a total of 84 hours of continuing education excluding CPR.
ACLS is mandatory and counts as 12 hours. Excluding ACLS its 72 hours


48 hours must be either a traditional, accredited, 48 hour Paramedic refresher OR your must cover the subjects from a 48 hour refresher in another way, completing the mandatory and flexible content. This is very specific job related things they want everyone to review.

This leaves 24 hours of "Additional EMS Related Continuing Education"
Within this 24 hours ONLY 12 hours maximum, maybe used for college classes, regardless of how many classes you have or how many hours they add up to.
The other 12 hours is usually obtained from another card class such as PEPP,PALS,PHTLS.

This is how I understand it.... from there website


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## Summit (Mar 21, 2013)

Looking at the EMT page, it says a maximum of 24 (vs 12 for paramedics), but it is unclear whether it is per course or total. Either way, I am fine.

https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/reg_basic_history.asp

ETA: Once National Reg started to offer retesting for re-certification, the language in a lot of their brochures changed to make it look more restrictive to recert with CE than it is because they want the testing fees.


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## reaper (Mar 21, 2013)

Paramedic course can be used for 48hr refresher hours. 

Any alphabet class can be used for CE hours. But each class is maximum of 12 hrs. So an ACLS and PHTLS class would cover all CE hours. Each college class can be used at 12 hrs CE.

BLS CPR class cannot be used towards CE requirements.

So for CE hours, each class is limited to 12 hours.


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## MrJones (Mar 21, 2013)

Summit said:


> Are you kidding? That would make a 4 credit hour Physiology class (~128 clock hour) worth the same as 4 hours of extrication skills practice day at Boondocks County Volunteer Fire. By that logic, if you needed to recert EMT halfway through an AAS Paramedic Program, the paramedic classes wouldn't have enough semester hours to recert your NREMT!



My goodness. Is this topic that important to you, or are you just easily excitable?

That aside, thanks all for setting me straight; it'll be useful when it comes time to recert.


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## JPINFV (Mar 21, 2013)

I can verify that you can fullfill the 48 hour CME requirement just by completing 2 college courses. 

What I would have loved to see was if I could have passed off my medical school courses as a refresher by CME course. Unfortunately, my CPR card expired a couple months before I had to take a CPR course for rotations anyways, so I let it lapse. Not exactly like I had any opportunities to use it over the past 2 years anyways.


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## Summit (Mar 21, 2013)

MrJones said:


> My goodness. Is this topic that important to you, or are you just easily excitable?
> 
> That aside, thanks all for setting me straight; it'll be useful when it comes time to recert.



Rereading i definitely see how my post can come across as worked up... didnt mean it that way


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 22, 2013)

I do not think its each class, I think its all your college classes in total. 
The NREMT says "A maximum of 12 hours can be applied for college courses that relate to your role as an EMS professional"

the "s" in courses, along with where it says a "maximum" of 12 hours can be applied, really sounds to me as if you can only use and be awarded 12 hours of college classes towards recertification, regardless of many you have or how long they are. (24 for EMT's)
If anyone disagree's would you care to share your rational and if a Representative from the NREMT has confirmed this?


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## JPINFV (Mar 22, 2013)

schulz said:


> I do not think its each class, I think its all your college classes in total.
> The NREMT says "A maximum of 12 hours can be applied for college courses that relate to your role as an EMS professional"
> 
> the "s" in courses, along with where it says a "maximum" of 12 hours can be applied, really sounds to me as if you can only use and be awarded 12 hours of college classes towards recertification, regardless of many you have or how long they are. (24 for EMT's)
> If anyone disagree's would you care to share your rational and if a Representative from the NREMT has confirmed this?




Where does it say that? It's not in the recertification brochure. The brochure doesn't limit the total number of college courses (assuming it isn't "distributive learning"). It just says it's "hour for hour." However, the "24 hours per subject" rule still applies. Thus even though my undergrad courses were 32 hours long (10 week quarter system, 3 hours per week plus final), each course only counted towards 24 hours of CME.


http://www.nremt.org/nremt/downloads/EMT ReCert brochure.pdf


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 22, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> "24 hours per subject"
> 
> http://www.nremt.org/nremt/downloads/EMT ReCert brochure.pdf



I see your using quotes, but I am unable to find this quote? Is it in the brochure you listed?


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 22, 2013)

https://www.nremt.org/nremt/downloads/Paramedic ReCert brochure.pdf
This is the Paramedic one and its saying a maximum of 12 hours per topic maybe used in this category. Which does possibly imply you could achieve all 24 hours of "Additional EMS Related Continuing Education" so long as your college courses where in different subjects.  It go;s on to state _"hour for hour" maybe used, but you can not violate the 12 hour per subject rule._ 

However thats better than I thought because on there website it states 
_Completion of an approved 48 hour DOT National Standard EMT-Paramedic / Paramedic Refresher
Completion of 24 hours of additional continuing EMS related education as outlined below
Pay the $20.00 (US funds only) recertification application fee at the time of submission of documentation_
 then it goes on to say
_College Courses 

A maximum of 12 hours can be applied for college courses that relate to your role as an EMS professional (for example, but not limited to: anatomy, physiology, biology, chemistry, microbiology, pharmacology, psychology, sociology, statistics, etc.) 

Hours from the following courses can be applied hour for hour with no maximum: Advanced Trauma Life Support, EMS Course Instruction, and Wilderness EMS Training. _

I was getting my info from the website https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/reg_para_history.asp#Paramedic_Recertification It also states 12 as the "maximum" as we quoted on here earlier.
and also what was told to me by previous training officer. However, it would appear on the new brochures it clears this up a little, stating it can be hour for hour but that its capped at 12 hours for medic per area and 24 for basic and that it can only be used to satisfy 12 or 24 hours of your 72 hours(84 hours with ACLS)


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## JPINFV (Mar 22, 2013)

Requirements for EMT recertification and paramedic recertification is different. 


The relevent direct quotes are...

The following are maximum hours per course that 
can be applied towards Additional EMS Related 
Continuing Education hours:
• A maximum number of 24 hours can be applied 
from any one topic area

...

College Courses
Hour for hour credit can be applied for college 
courses that relate to your role as an EMS 
professional (for example, but not limited 
to, anatomy, physiology, biology, chemistry, 
pharmacology, psychology, sociology, statistics, 
etc.)


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 22, 2013)

Ya, I think the confusion (for me anyway) was what the NREMT website states and what the new brochures state. The brochures are a little clearer, as opposed to the website which is stating something more vague which could be construed in another way.


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## WuLabsWuTecH (Mar 27, 2013)

This seems to be partially settled, but I thought I would add this in there for posterity's sake since I called them about this.  Their response is that college hours count for any hour that your butt is in the seat.  That is to say, for a 3 credit hour class that meets 2x a week for 10 weeks, you get 20 hours provided you showed up to each class.  If you skipped a class, then you only get 19.  They concede that there is no way for them to know if you skipped a class, but it's honor system in that respect.  The maximum for any subject area is 24 hours, but that is vague because does renal physiology count as different than say cardiac physiology?  Or is that all "physiology"?

Anyways, we'll see what they say. I submitted hundreds of hours of CEUs just in case some of them get rejected for being too similar.  I figured that with a couple hundred of them, they can find 48 hours that meet their requirements!


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## ExpatMedic0 (Mar 27, 2013)

lol, I always just give them the exact amount of hours they want, nothing more nothing less. Keep it simple. If they audit me or reject some, then Ill blow the dust off the folder I throw all this crap in. However, everything I submitted was CECBEMS approved except for a psychology class, I just included my transcripts for that with the class highlighted.


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## Summit (Mar 27, 2013)

WuLabsWuTecH said:


> This seems to be partially settled, but I thought I would add this in there for posterity's sake since I called them about this.  Their response is that college hours count for any hour that your butt is in the seat.  ...  The maximum for any subject area is 24 hours, but that is vague because does renal physiology count as different than say cardiac physiology?  Or is that all "physiology"?
> 
> Anyways, we'll see what they say. I submitted hundreds of hours of CEUs just in case some of them get rejected for being too similar.  I figured that with a couple hundred of them, they can find 48 hours that meet their requirements!



I put everything in until I get tired of entering it... I figure they won't bother me with an audit if they realize they could throw out 80% and I still have more than enough CE.

But, depending how they interpret the above, one could recert with an EMT Refresher and a 4cr Anatomy Class. If they went by the strict 24hr limit, an EMT Refresher, a 4cr Anatomy Class and a 4cr Physiology Class would suffice. This seems fine to me in a professional sense.


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