# Just when I thought stupidity in EMS would no longer surprise me........



## Flight-LP (Nov 17, 2013)

Then I see this on Facebook. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...16783680.50226.117877988247187&type=1&theater

Does the cold weather in Northern Michigan cause some sort of pathophysiological influx of stupidity I am not aware of?


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## TransportJockey (Nov 17, 2013)

What. The. F***?


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## Medic Tim (Nov 17, 2013)

:facepalm:

the fact they got permission from their boss makes this even worse.

If I did that at any place I currently or have worked in the past I would have been fired on the spot. Possibly lost my license in at least 1 place.


 this is why we cant have nice things.


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## SandpitMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

Ugh.... as an outdoorsman and non-vegan: cool.
As a medic.... Jesus H Christ, clown shoes.... 

Oh you're having chest pains? Hold on a second, let me get this dead deer off of my gurney for you to have a seat... wtf?!


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

I may have been dragged into that post lol. I really hope the department of health and state ems office finds the picture.


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## SandpitMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> this is why we cant have nice things.



LOL..word!


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## CriticalCareIFT (Nov 17, 2013)

This is just natural progression from this









  Life Lion -- Life Lion Crew Members Dave Zook, RN and Steve Weihbrecht, EMT-P escorting Fire/EMS personnel to the aircraft to load Zeke (K-9 Dog) for transport to the Vet Hospital.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> This is just natural progression from this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



K-9 is a completely different story.


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## Medic Tim (Nov 17, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> This is just natural progression from this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't have the same reaction to this picture. Police k-9 injured in the line of duty...as long as you aren't bumping a pt... I more willing to forgive....that said it probably shouldn't happen.


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## TransportJockey (Nov 17, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> This is just natural progression from this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So a flight team transporting an injured officer (which K-9s are) with more than adequate available resources left for human patients is on par with a hillbilly ambulance crew that is now the primary unit taking their unit out of service to gut roadkill IN THEIR BUS? Sure...


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## CriticalCareIFT (Nov 17, 2013)

IF they were taking the deer to the animal clinic would it be ok then?


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## Medic Tim (Nov 17, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> IF they were taking the deer to the animal clinic would it be ok then?



is the said deer a police officer? And are there other units available?


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## TransportJockey (Nov 17, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> IF they were taking the deer to the animal clinic would it be ok then?



Not really, no. Still taking out an available resource that could be used on humans. The K-9 story is rather different if for no other reason than Zeke is considered an officer just like his handler


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

CriticalCareIFT said:


> IF they were taking the deer to the animal clinic would it be ok then?



As others have stated, is that deer a police officer? K-9s are considered officers. If you shoot a K-9 officer you can be charged criminally (and by criminally I mean a felony). If you shoot a deer nothing is probably gonna happen. 

I'll admit that they heli is a little extreme but if the officers want a heli for the K-9, I'm not gonna stand in their way.


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## mycrofft (Nov 17, 2013)

Sh-h-h-h. The deer was a confidential informant for Fish and Game.

Yeah, I agree, stupid, but relatively harmless stupid. Better than the entire shift at a small residential local FD station who were fired for group sex.


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## Rano Pano (Nov 17, 2013)

Is gutting a deer a common skill in Michigan?

From looking at the picture they cut the deer's head off, right?

This is weird.


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## EpiEMS (Nov 17, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Yeah, I agree, stupid, but relatively harmless stupid.



Stupid, for sure. Harmless, as well, more or less. Unprofessional? Absolutely.


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> Is gutting a deer a common skill in Michigan?
> 
> From looking at the picture they cut the deer's head off, right?
> 
> This is weird.



I'm fairly sure the deer was whole, just missing the organs.


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## mycrofft (Nov 17, 2013)

"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand."


HA!
:rofl:​


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## mycrofft (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> Is gutting a deer a common skill in Michigan?
> 
> From looking at the picture they cut the deer's head off, right?
> 
> This is weird.



They screwed up the cric….but the meat's ok!


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## CFal (Nov 17, 2013)

I'm sure there are other units in the area and that's why they received permission.  Is it really any less sanitary than a random patient with multiple diseases bleeding?


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## Medic Tim (Nov 17, 2013)

CFal said:


> I'm sure there are other units in the area and that's why they received permission.  Is it really any less sanitary than a random patient with multiple diseases bleeding?



This can be a pr nightmare. It also shows a complete lack of professionalism. It is bad enough that they out road kill in the back of an ambulance , but to publicly post a pic on fb looking for atta boys and likes is just idiotic.

Like I said earlier

This is why we can't have nice things and we are treated a ambulance drivers and not healthcare professionals.


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## epipusher (Nov 17, 2013)

This is about as dumb as working a kitten in the back of an ambulance.


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## TheLocalMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

epipusher said:


> This is about as dumb as working a kitten in the back of an ambulance.



Hey now, those fire guys always get a lot of good PR when they publish pics of them giving kittens oxygen...


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## Anjel (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> Is gutting a deer a common skill in Michigan?
> 
> From looking at the picture they cut the deer's head off, right?
> 
> This is weird.



That's a whole deer minus the guts.

And the majority of me in Michigan are huge hunters, and can gut a deer by the age of 12.


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

...and as far as the helo flying the K9, as some of you know, my wife is an emergency vet... when we first met she told me about a Delaware State Police Helo landing at the clinic with an injured police dog. When she mentioned that she may need to give Fido some blood, the troopers were outta there in minutes and returned with blood.

I guess they normally just transfuse blood from a local "donor dog", but police dogs are treated just like officers. Nothing was too good for that pooch.


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## Tigger (Nov 17, 2013)

We go to car vs. deer accidents that are reported to be non-injury "just in case" (bolster run numbers), and I've had partners who have gutted deer on the side of the road. We don't go out of service, it's not done in plain view, and the deer certainly never goes into the ambulance, and I'm still not sure how ok I am with that.

Part of the culture around here is always the justification, but I can't really call it professional behavior either.


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## Rano Pano (Nov 17, 2013)

I must be missing something... 
Why are EMS personnel gutting deers at all in any situation? I don't hunt, but I'd imagine if I gut something it's to take the hide home. As in the example above, what did the partner do with the deer after it's gutted?


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## 9D4 (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> I must be missing something...
> Why are EMS personnel gutting deers at all in any situation? I don't hunt, but I'd imagine if I gut something it's to take the hide home. As in the example above, what did the partner do with the deer after it's gutted?


Take it to a processor and eat it...? Haha


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## Tigger (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> I must be missing something...
> Why are EMS personnel gutting deers at all in any situation? I don't hunt, but I'd imagine if I gut something it's to take the hide home. As in the example above, what did the partner do with the deer after it's gutted?



Off duty sheriff's deputy came by and picked it up, they went and got it from his house after shift.

And they hunt deer for meat...


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## NBFFD2433 (Nov 17, 2013)

Flight-LP said:


> Then I see this on Facebook.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...16783680.50226.117877988247187&type=1&theater
> 
> Does the cold weather in Northern Michigan cause some sort of pathophysiological influx of stupidity I am not aware of?



Hilarious! I've transported some hairy PT s. but not that furry.


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## Mariemt (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> I must be missing something...
> Why are EMS personnel gutting deers at all in any situation? I don't hunt, but I'd imagine if I gut something it's to take the hide home. As in the example above, what did the partner do with the deer after it's gutted?



Its called food. Meat.

You can eat a deer. Its called venison


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## CFal (Nov 17, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> This can be a pr nightmare. It also shows a complete lack of professionalism. It is bad enough that they out road kill in the back of an ambulance , but to publicly post a pic on fb looking for atta boys and likes is just idiotic.
> 
> Like I said earlier
> 
> This is why we can't have nice things and we are treated a ambulance drivers and not healthcare professionals.



Putting it on Facebook was probably a bad idea I agree, but up there the local populace probably doesn't care about it, from a PR standpoint.


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## Medic Tim (Nov 17, 2013)

CFal said:


> Putting it on Facebook was probably a bad idea I agree, but up there the local populace probably doesn't care about it, from a PR standpoint.



We all get painted with the same brush. If a person has a bad experience with a medic or EMT they usually have a distrust for all EMTs and medics ... Not just the ones they dealt with. 
This pic makes us all look like a bunch of back woods hillbilly ambulance drivers.


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## Rano Pano (Nov 17, 2013)

Mariemt said:


> Its called food. Meat.
> 
> You can eat a deer. Its called venison



If I came on scene to a recently killed chicken I would never think "hey, I got time. I'm taking his meat back to my house"


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## CriticalCareIFT (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> If I came on scene to a recently killed chicken I would never think "hey, I got time. I'm taking his meat back to my house"



'MERICAAAH


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## firetender (Nov 17, 2013)

CFal said:


> Putting it on Facebook was probably a bad idea I agree, but up there the local populace probably doesn't care about it, from a PR standpoint.


 
The only thing stupid about this was posting it. Stuff like that goes on all the time, with permission or without. It used to be called "our little secret". Now, everybody wants the world to see how cool they are and finding they're only putting a bullseye on their asses.

Besides, in that particular culture there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving medics alternative food sources to reduce the amount of their whining for raises. Michigan is in deep doo-doo.


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## ffemt8978 (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> I must be missing something...
> Why are EMS personnel gutting deers at all in any situation? I don't hunt, but I'd imagine if I gut something it's to take the hide home. As in the example above, what did the partner do with the deer after it's gutted?



It's their new CPR mannequin.


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## mycrofft (Nov 17, 2013)

Anyway it looks like the anonymous operator hires kids who have a siight deficit of professionalism and media awareness.

Should have tied it to the busy bar on top!

I'm sorry, they just look so happy and cute like those oxygen kittens someone brought up earlier. But, bad call. ANd check out the comments below it! "I've transported hairier patients than that"….crikey !!!<_<


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## mycrofft (Nov 17, 2013)

PS: re K9 officers.

The dept does not officially treat them like human officers but like valuable equipment.

Any special goodies for them are from out of the officers' and other people's hearts and pockets.

Denying a bad guy a kill on a K9 is another way of putting a finger into the "individual's" eye and saying "S%#rw you, dumbwad!". And well said at that.


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## EpiEMS (Nov 17, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> The dept does not officially treat them like human officers but like valuable equipment.



From that perspective, then a HEMS transport could certainly be justified, no?


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## Tigger (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> If I came on scene to a recently killed chicken I would never think "hey, I got time. I'm taking his meat back to my house"



How often does that happen?

In some parts of the country deer are little more than overgrown varmints. We probably run four car vs deer calls a week, and that's just the ones that get called in. If a crew wants to butcher it up for later while staying in service, I suppose it's no big deal. 

The stupid part of all this as firetender and everyone else said, is posting it on Facebook. Lots of borderline stuff happens all the time that has no operational impact but doesn't look all that good PR wise.


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

Tigger said:


> How often does that happen?
> 
> In some parts of the country deer are little more than overgrown varmints. We probably run four car vs deer calls a week, and that's just the ones that get called in. If a crew wants to butcher it up for later while staying in service, I suppose it's no big deal.
> 
> The stupid part of all this as firetender and everyone else said, is posting it on Facebook. Lots of borderline stuff happens all the time that has no operational impact but doesn't look all that good PR wise.



Funny, here in DE it happens pretty often. We're a huge poultry production state, and almost every local can tell you a story about "rescuing" a chicken that's fallen off a chicken truck.


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## chaz90 (Nov 17, 2013)

Tigger said:


> How often does that happen?



Just about every day around these parts. Sussex County knows how to produce some poultry.


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## chaz90 (Nov 17, 2013)

DEmedic said:


> Funny, here in DE it happens pretty often. We're a huge poultry production state, and almost every local can tell you a story about "rescuing" a chicken that's fallen off a chicken truck.



Jinx


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## NomadicMedic (Nov 17, 2013)

You owe me a coke.


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## Rano Pano (Nov 17, 2013)

Tigger said:


> How often does that happen?
> 
> In some parts of the country deer are little more than overgrown varmints. We probably run four car vs deer calls a week, and that's just the ones that get called in. If a crew wants to butcher it up for later while staying in service, I suppose it's no big deal.
> 
> The stupid part of all this as firetender and everyone else said, is posting it on Facebook. Lots of borderline stuff happens all the time that has no operational impact but doesn't look all that good PR wise.



Putting a little bit of thought into it I see how this would be a common call for some areas. I definitely never gave much thought to this type of call before.

I still think gutting a deer you run a call on is weird :huh:


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## 9D4 (Nov 17, 2013)

Rano Pano said:


> Putting a little bit of thought into it I see how this would be a common call for some areas. I definitely never gave much thought to this type of call before.
> 
> I still think gutting a deer you run a call on is weird :huh:


I'm with you. We don't have a lot of wildlife in my area (pretty limited to just javelina and cows), but if I got a call for either, would not put it in the ambo, definitely would not take a picture of it in said ambo. The gutting/ processing... well, javelina does make some good breakfast sausage :lol:


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## Tigger (Nov 17, 2013)

chaz90 said:


> Just about every day around these parts. Sussex County knows how to produce some poultry.



Seems like there wouldn't be a lot left to salvage after a poultry vs. deer TA...


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## Handsome Robb (Nov 18, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> As others have stated, is that deer a police officer? K-9s are considered officers. If you shoot a K-9 officer you can be charged criminally (and by criminally I mean a felony). If you shoot a deer nothing is probably gonna happen.
> 
> I'll admit that they heli is a little extreme but if the officers want a heli for the K-9, I'm not gonna stand in their way.



We actually have a program here that leaves the medic behind and the nurse, handler and K9 fly in the helo to the Puppy TC over the hill in really bad situations. They also fly avalanche dogs to backcountry avalanches with reports of people buried. 

While I honor them for not wasting the meat I find this completely inappropriate. Sure they're the backup unit but what happens if two calls pop? Stranger things have happened. Why couldn't they toss it in the back of a utility truck? There really is no excuse or argument for this. It's the epitome of unprofessionalism. Then the comments that ensued made it even worse. How do you plan on explaining to the family that called 911 why the responding unit was delayed? How about if nana ends up with lyme disease or a tick or something?


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## mycrofft (Nov 18, 2013)

Yeah, I was thinking about Lyme's too. Ticks will jump ship as the cadaver cools.

Deer are the most dangerous mammal to humans besides humans, in the USA, primarily regarding traffic accidents. They are becoming more concentrated along watercourses and food sources due to loss of habitat, loss of predator controls. In Nebraska near the PLatte, at dusk, you drive I-80 and can see them all over the place in some areas


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## JPINFV (Nov 18, 2013)

TransportJockey said:


> So a flight team transporting an injured officer (which K-9s are) with more than adequate available resources left for human patients is on par with a hillbilly ambulance crew that is now the primary unit taking their unit out of service to gut roadkill IN THEIR BUS? Sure...



If a police dog is an "officer" with the same rights as a human, than the c-diff smelling dogs are physicians and should be referred to as such.

It's a dog. Period. If scruffy doesn't get helicopter ride for a boo boo (and someone has to pay for that helicopter ride...), why should the police dog get a ride?


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 18, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> If a police dog is an "officer" with the same rights as a human, than the c-diff smelling dogs are physicians and should be referred to as such.
> 
> It's a dog. Period. If scruffy doesn't get helicopter ride for a boo boo (and someone has to pay for that helicopter ride...), why should the police dog get a ride?



It's a dog that the law views as an officer.


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## JPINFV (Nov 18, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> It's a dog that the law views as an officer.




Does the law require the use of an ambulance for dogs owned by the police department? 

As a tax payer, why am I paying thousands of dollars to medivac a dog?


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 18, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> Does the law require the use of an ambulance for dogs owned by the police department?
> 
> As a tax payer, why am I paying thousands of dollars to medivac a dog?



As a tax payer why are we paying thousands of dollars to train these dogs?

I'm not trying to justify a heli for a K-9 but it is often done.


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## JPINFV (Nov 18, 2013)

DesertEMT66 said:


> As a tax payer why are we paying thousands of dollars to train these dogs?
> 
> I'm not trying to justify a heli for a K-9 but it is often done.




Because they can be, when deployed properly, a useful tool. We pay thousands of dollars for police cars, but we don't airlift them to the mechanic's shop either (ok, bad example, but you get the idea).


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## DesertMedic66 (Nov 18, 2013)

JPINFV said:


> Because they can be, when deployed properly, a useful tool. We pay thousands of dollars for police cars, but we don't airlift them to the mechanic's shop either (ok, bad example, but you get the idea).



Generally speaking when a K-9 is transported it is to 1) save the dogs life and 2) to try to limit the injuries so that the dog can return to the field. Otherwise we are just going to have to spend thousands more on training a new dog. 

I can see why some areas fly them (not every town has a 24/7 vet).


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## Jawdavis (Nov 18, 2013)

it says it was taken down, what was it?


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## malolava (Dec 2, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Sh-h-h-h. The deer was a confidential informant for Fish and Game.
> 
> Yeah, I agree, stupid, but relatively harmless stupid. Better than the entire shift at a small residential local FD station who were fired for group sex.



where and when was this?


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