# Why don't a lot of EMTs go on to paramedic school?



## patzyboi (May 3, 2013)

There are a lot of EMTs that have worked in the same company for 5+ years, or just stayed as an EMT. I have no doubt that most of them have the knowledge/time management/work ethics to go on to paramedic school, but why don't most of them do go?

Money? Time? Rather stay as an EMT?


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## NomadicMedic (May 3, 2013)

patzyboi said:


> There are a lot of EMTs that have worked in the same company for 5+ years, or just stayed as an EMT. I have no doubt that most of them have the knowledge/time management/work ethics to go on to paramedic school, but why don't most of them do go?
> 
> Money? Time? Rather stay as an EMT?



All of the above. I know a LOT of EMTs that just don't have any interest in any additional education. EMTs in Delaware can make more than $20/hr. Why would they give that up to go to medic school, when they can work part time for 4 or 5 fire comapnies and ride ambulances 80+ hours a week.


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## Amberlamps916 (May 3, 2013)

Perhaps. There are quite a few that have been hesitant/scared to take the next step which from what I have noticed, correlates with weight gain for some reason.


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## Aprz (May 3, 2013)

I'm sure the OP is talking about the EMTs in his area (San Francisco Bay Area, correct?) that have been working for an IFT-only mom and pop ambulance shop for many years for minimal pay. It's very common to see these guys. They are there because they put minimal effort into EMS hoping to eventually be picked up by a fire department.


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## wanderingmedic (May 3, 2013)

it's just not for some people. i know some fantastic emt's that have 10+ years of experience, but just don't want the added responsibility. a lot of guys in fire are not there for ems....they are there because they like fires and the whole fire dept thing (nothing wrong with that, we need guys crazy enough to run into burning buildings).  

just like I am not in ems to run into fires, a lot of fire emt's are not in ems to do patient care - its more of a secondary thing that is part of the job.


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## sir.shocksalot (May 3, 2013)

Or the EMTs are trying to move on to bigger and better things like nursing school or med school and don't see getting their medic as worth the time and money while they work towards their other goals. Plus after a certain length of time you end up with so many pay raises as an EMT that getting your medic ends up not increasing your pay or you actually end up with a pay cut (if your company resets your seniority at a different cert level).

There are just too many different reasons people don't move up. I think the minority are just not willing to learn.


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## Clipper1 (May 3, 2013)

California, just like some other places,  is an area where there are way more applicants for firefighter than there are jobs. Most will also not meet the minimum physical requirements.  Unless you are will a fire department, you probably will not do much with your Paramedic skills. Private ambulances which might do 911 service change contracts frequently so there is little job security.  For CCT and several flight companies, RNs are used and not Paramedics. But, two EMTs can work CCT with the RN.  Unless you really believe you have a shot at being a firefighter and want to do the time focusing on it, advancing to Paramedic is probably not worth it.


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## CameronStorer (May 3, 2013)

Addrobo said:


> Perhaps. There are quite a few that have been hesitant/scared to take the next step which from what I have noticed, correlates with weight gain for some reason.



lol
I don't know if I've noticed that one. 



I for one, feel very excited about going to the next level, but I still need to take it one step at a time, I don't even have my official NREMT-B certification yet. I'm very excited about a prospective future career in ALS, my ultimate, dream goal to come from my career in EMS is to become a flight paramedic. 

I always did ponder why there was a so called "shortage" of paramedics and such a higher portion of EMT-Basics, and plenty who I have met just simply did not seem interested in becoming paramedics. I really do like the idea of the responsibilities and powers of a paramedic, I don't want to just be in prehospital care, I want to be the highest level of prehospital care (outside of flight nurses), so I can do the absolute most to help my patients. 

In a way, at least from my relatively inexperienced view point (I'm not pretending I currently have any real experience actually working in EMS) I think the jobs that ALS and BLS have are more different than some people care to admit.


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## Achilles (May 3, 2013)

DEmedic said:


> All of the above. I know a LOT of EMTs that just don't have any interest in any additional education. EMTs in Delaware can make more than $20/hr. Why would they give that up to go to medic school, when they can work part time for 4 or 5 fire comapnies and ride ambulances 80+ hours a week.



Do they not have unions in Delaware?


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## NomadicMedic (May 3, 2013)

Not for the BLS people.


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## djarmpit (May 3, 2013)

I'm doing my 1 year and then getting into the paramedic program at UCLA in January.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 3, 2013)

There are several EMTs that I know who have been working as an EMT for 5-20 years because they have tried medic school and failed, some as many as 3 times so they just give up and make a living off EMT pay.


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## Akulahawk (May 3, 2013)

I've met a few that would actually make _less_ as a Paramedic than they'd make as an EMT. One in particular was making something like $25-$28/hr as an EMT (he's been there longer than Moses) and for him to become a Paramedic, he'd have taken nearly a 50% pay cut. That and he didn't want the extra responsibility.


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## AtlasFlyer (May 4, 2013)

For me, personally, it's a matter of time. Hours in the day...

I'm just finishing up EMT-B class at a local community college. Class has been 1-5 on Mon & Weds since Jan 15th, and we'll finish up with our last day this Wed (14 May). With my two kids and a husband who's gone 2-5 days a week that's ALL the time I have in my life available to go to school. I just don't have the time for the school required to be a Paramedic *right now*.  As my kids get older (they're 8 and 9 right now) I will have more time and be able to give Paramedic school the time and energy that it requires. 

For me, t's not for lack of _desire_, I just know I don't have the necessary time that Paramedic school requires and deserves. I will in the future. In the meantime, I'll work as an EMT, gain some experience (I've never worked in medicine before, so it's ALL very new to me) and in a few years I'll have the time to move up.


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## yowzer (May 16, 2013)

I never went to paramedic school for a couple of reasons:

The job market for paramedics in my area is weak. You pretty much have to get hired by a fire department and work for a few years as a firefighter first, which I don't have much interest in, or face a long commute to a county that lets privates use medics and do pretty much the same sort of calls you do as a basic closer to home for not much more money. Just not worth it.

Also, I can't afford it. If I ever do figure out how to swing a year or two of full time college again, I'm going to go for something that'll give me hospital opportunities, like RT, instead.


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## Niesje (May 17, 2013)

I'm in AEMT school right now, but I've already got everything set up to go straight into paramedic school. In my area, you're more likely to get a job if you're a medic. They don't want any EMT-Bs at all and will take AEMT especially if they mention that you're in school to be a medic. I also want to eventually work life flights, and that will require lots of experience as a paramedic. Personally, I just couldn't make myself settle for AEMT. I don't know how far I'm going with my education, but I am definitely going farther than this.


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## fortsmithman (May 17, 2013)

I talked to one guy who is an EMT and he said he didn't want the added costs of a student loan as well he didn't have the time (here in Canada ACP or EMTP is a 2 year course with EMT being a 6 month to one year course.  He stated that a Paramedic makes only 2.00 more than an EMT and the minimal increase in pay would not justify the added cost of student loans and time.


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## LEB343 (May 18, 2013)

I was literally about to put my completed medic school app in the mail when I changed my mind. I know I would be a great medic and I was up for the challenge (BLS isn't doing it for me anymore), but EMS wasn't going to cut it anymore for me. I love the excitement of running calls and I love the company I work for, but I couldn't see much of a future for myself anymore. I have no interest in working for a fire department and I cannot see myself working for a private ambulance company for the rest of my career. IMO, there isn't much room for growth as a paramedic. I decided I am going to go to nursing school. There is so much more you can do as a RN, NP, etc and you get paid much more. I looked how this decision would affect my marriage and starting a family soon, and not going to medic school and working as a paramedic was the best option.


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## CFal (May 20, 2013)

money and time mostly.  a program like this one does interest me though:

http://www.mpcc.edu/page.cfm/health-and-medical-occupations/accelerated-paramedic-training


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## TheLocalMedic (May 21, 2013)

Most of the EMTs that don't go medic know that they either won't cut it or don't want the added responsibility.  

Some people like being followers rather than leaders, and others just don't want the headache and paperwork that comes with the job.


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## DesertMedic66 (May 21, 2013)

TheLocalMedic said:


> Most of the EMTs that don't go medic know that they either won't cut it or don't want the added responsibility.
> 
> Some people like being followers rather than leaders, and others just don't want the headache and paperwork that comes with the job.



That's another reason a lot of medics like going fire. There is a lot less paperwork on EMS calls.


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## hogwiley (May 21, 2013)

TheLocalMedic said:


> Most of the EMTs that don't go medic know that they either won't cut it or don't want the added responsibility.
> 
> Some people like being followers rather than leaders, and others just don't want the headache and paperwork that comes with the job.



Then you have those that are looking beyond EMS to allied health care professions that require degrees. Paramedic school might not have high academic requirements or standards, but it is time consuming and expensive, so it doesnt make much sense for EMTs who are studying to be RNs or PAs or RTs etc to go to Paramedic school.


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## Carlos Danger (May 21, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Then you have those that are looking beyond EMS to allied health care professions that require degrees. Paramedic school might not have high academic requirements or standards, but it is time consuming and expensive, *so it doesnt make much sense for EMTs who are studying to be RNs or PAs or RTs etc to go to Paramedic school.*



Especially when, in many states, a PA or RN can challenge the paramedic exam.


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## Household6 (May 21, 2013)

Our closest Medic college program is 120 away.. I can't commute like that.. I'd love to go to the University of MN, but it's just not reasonable for me.


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## Ecgg (May 21, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Then you have those that are looking beyond EMS to allied health care professions that require degrees. Paramedic school might not have high academic requirements or standards, but it is time consuming and expensive, so it doesnt make much sense for EMTs who are studying to be RNs or PAs or RTs etc to go to Paramedic school.



I tend to agree that EMT's who's goal is to become RN's, PA's or RT's going to paramedic school by far is not ideal. That time and money can be better spent devoted to pre-reqs, tuition, books for your desired goal.

Whenever EMT's ask me "Is paramedic school worth it?" I in good continence cannot recommend it. 


Due to ridiculous unprofessionalism, self study nature, very likely rotations with folks who would fail you as a way to say "we don't want students" but cannot say so legally. Unrealistic expectations from instructors who don't even bother teaching etc....

Not to mention when you get hired you will be treated as a driver, have to cover your *** from all the angles imaginable, and get crappy salary on top of a model where education means absolutely nothing.

There is only 1 group of people I would say consider paramedic school with caveat emptor approach. If your goal is to be a physician and medical school is the only thing you see in your future. Paramedic school is for you  because of the ridiculous unprofessionalism as it will teach you how to be an independent thinker, how to cover your ***, how to locate proper medical education and because you will pay out of your pocket for it you will never be content in your current position. The salary, working conditions, how you are treated will serve as a fire under your *** to grind through your college course work because you know there is nothing that is waiting for you if you quit.


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## Handsome Robb (May 21, 2013)

That's a pretty negative outlook on Paramedic school and EMS as a whole...


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## SKD (May 21, 2013)

*RE: why don't more EMTs go to medic school*

Money and time constraints, as paramedic school is expensive and it is hard to work and make enough to pay for school, food, car payment ect.   A lot of EMTs get burnt out and realize that EMS is kind of a hassle and change their minds. Also the pay isn't always that great for medics starting out.


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## J B (May 21, 2013)

So much seems to depend on your company, area, dispatchers, etc... 

As a newbie/student, the impression I get is that BLS / IFT kinda sucks no matter where you go, but ALS can be a really sweet gig if you find a good place.  

I'm sure this varies depending on what area of the country you're in, as well.  From reading on here, it seems like trying to do EMS in CA is miserable because the supply of workers so far exceeds the demand.  Where I am, medics are in short supply and it seems like if you had a little experience it wouldn't be hard to shop around for a good company/work environment.


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## eprex (May 21, 2013)

I think I've posted in this thread before but here's another angle- The same reason most people stay paralegals instead of becoming lawyers or remaining secretaries instead of becoming managers, so on and so forth.

People are lazy, get complacent, get stuck in the grind. It's human nature to be comfortable in a static environment.

But I think it's mostly the schooling and cost that deters people. A lot of EMS folk I know don't have a college degree. Two years of schools seems like a lot to that kind of individual.


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## fortsmithman (May 22, 2013)

eprex said:


> A lot of EMS folk I know don't have a college degree. Two years of schools seems like a lot to that kind of individual.




Here in Canada to be an ACP (known as EMTP or NRP in the USA)  it's 3 years minimum 1 year for PCP/EMTR and 2 years for ACP/EMTP.  The province of Ontario is different they require their PCP/EMT to take a 2 year prtogram and ACP/EMTp is 1 year.  As well in Alberta they have a 4 year degree program in EMS it's a zero to hero program where you leave as a ACP/EMTP.


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## medic741 (Jun 1, 2013)

*Ny*

In NY it feels like >50% of EVERY EMT class is full of college kids who are in EMS only for premed and will never recert, be very active, or go commercial. 

For those who have been EMTs for a while "I don't want the extra responsibility" is a frequent one.

For those on the fence - go Paramedic!!!


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## TheLocalMedic (Jun 4, 2013)

Ecgg said:


> Whenever EMT's ask me "Is paramedic school worth it?" I in good continence cannot recommend it.



And I cannot in good conscience recommend medic school for people who confuse conscience and continence...


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## boydel8 (Jun 7, 2013)

I can only speak on behalf of the students that took the EMT class with me. On talking to many of them the motivation for EMT was:

1) Looks good when applying to nursing school

2) Looks good when applying to med school

3) looks good when applying to PA school

4) looks good when applying to a respitory  therapist program or some other allied health program

5) I need to get paid and being an EMT pays more than minimum wage.

Very few saw EMT as a full time career and even fewer had a desire to go the paramedic route. Their reason being, "The intensity and diffcutly of medic training to only get 3-5$ more than an EMT is not worth it, I might as well go nursing". 

I suppose I am guilty somewhat. I did emt for nursing school-flat out, I won't deny it, I won't hide it, I never had any plan of making emt fulltime or gong beyond a basic. And I guess I can say it did work, I am in a nursing program now, set to begin clincals in the fall 2013 and as weird as it is, I am antsy as hell right now because I want to start clincals now as opposed to waiting until September. 

That being said I think being an emt helped me solidify my want to be a nurse. And I will never disparage those who chose to go the EMT route.


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## Fire51 (Jun 7, 2013)

A lot of EMT also just don't think they are smart enough to go through medic school and others just don't fill the need to go advanced. I know medics that say its one of the hardest things they have done but was totally worth it. For me I like to keep advancing my knowledge about emergencies and learning new things that I can do to help in those situations.


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## VA Transport EMT (Jun 7, 2013)

DEmedic said:


> All of the above. I know a LOT of EMTs that just don't have any interest in any additional education. EMTs in Delaware can make more than $20/hr. Why would they give that up to go to medic school, when they can work part time for 4 or 5 fire comapnies and ride ambulances 80+ hours a week.



where can an emt make $20 hourly?


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 9, 2013)

VA Transport EMT said:


> where can an emt make $20 hourly?



Did you even read the post you quoted? 

EMTs in Delaware can, and do, make $20, or more, per hour.


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## Arovetli (Jun 9, 2013)

VA Transport EMT said:


> where can an emt make $20 hourly?



There is one big southern city I know of you can get pretty close to this, and a medic can exceed it.

Easy 60k for a medic in my hometown at certain transport services, 50+ in 911. EMTs arent too far behind, maybe ten percent less. But you'll work for it.


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## Wheel (Jun 9, 2013)

Arovetli said:


> There is one big southern city I know of you can get pretty close to this, and a medic can exceed it.
> 
> Easy 60k for a medic in my hometown at certain transport services, 50+ in 911. EMTs arent too far behind, maybe ten percent less. But you'll work for it.



Where might this be? I'm guessing Atlanta, but as someone looking for a move to a large southern city and as a newer medic looking to gain some solid experience I'm curious.


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## Arovetli (Jun 9, 2013)

Wheel said:


> Where might this be? I'm guessing Atlanta, but as someone looking for a move to a large southern city and as a newer medic looking to gain some solid experience I'm curious.



Yes, the ATL.

It pays well but comes with a price.

You will need more than this to live happily there though.


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## Wheel (Jun 9, 2013)

Arovetli said:


> Yes, the ATL.
> 
> It pays well but comes with a price.
> 
> You will need more than this to live happily there though.



PM sent


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