# Ambulance regulations



## ocemt (Jun 7, 2009)

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and i think it is great! Maybe i can get some good advise on a situation.

    I currently work for an ambulance company in orange county, california. I have worked here for about 6 months. The company is great. I just have one concern. This company routinely sends crews to pick up patients in los angeles county. Now, from what i understand from the L.A. county EMS office, The ambulance (not the EMT's) must be certified in L.A. county in order to pick up in that county. Other EMT's have brought it up to managements attention but they just brush it off. I have already emailed the L.A. county ems office on this issue but have not heard a response yet. Actually, a large group of EMT's got together and somehow i got elected to get clarification on this matter. i am just asking for any advise. Thanks.


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## daedalus (Jun 7, 2009)

ocemt said:


> Hello all, I'm new to this forum and i think it is great! Maybe i can get some good advise on a situation.
> 
> I currently work for an ambulance company in orange county, california. I have worked here for about 6 months. The company is great. I just have one concern. This company routinely sends crews to pick up patients in los angeles county. Now, from what i understand from the L.A. county EMS office, The ambulance (not the EMT's) must be certified in L.A. county in order to pick up in that county. Other EMT's have brought it up to managements attention but they just brush it off. I have already emailed the L.A. county ems office on this issue but have not heard a response yet. Actually, a large group of EMT's got together and somehow i got elected to get clarification on this matter. i am just asking for any advise. Thanks.


Email LA County EMS for a definitive answer. One thing I know for sure, you MAY NOT pick up patients in the city of LA or the city of Long Beach without both Los Angeles County and individual city credentials on the back of your ambulance. Also, each individual EMT picking up in Los Angeles will need a LA city DOT card. If your employer asks you to pick up in these areas, you both are breaking the law.


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## JPINFV (Jun 7, 2009)

Just curious, when did Long Beach start requiring companies to have a city certification?

Are you working for the company that regularly runs Pacific Hospital of LB ER to Pacific Hosp Psych?


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## ocemt (Jun 7, 2009)

Well, i do not work for the company you are referring too. I believe Long Beach does not require any certifications. The company i work for routinely sends us all over L.A. county. Not just Long Beach.


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## JPINFV (Jun 7, 2009)

Ah, the whole county? Gotcha. The company I used to work for in OC routinely had a unit or two in Long Beach and, generally, we accecpted calls along the 605 freeway area (Whittier, Downy, Bell Flower). That said, I have done a CCT out of King/Drew and one night ended up running several calls in the city of Bell.


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## daedalus (Jun 7, 2009)

The City of Long Beach has issued all of our units stickers and came by to inspect them. All of our units have both LA County and Long Beach stickers on the back, and all of our EMTs have LA County Expanded Scope and LA City DOT cards. We are told that units failing to display the stickers, or EMTs failing to produce City cards could result in individual and agency fines.

Thats all I know factually. As far as other advice, private ambulance companies will never look out for you, only themselves.


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## daedalus (Jun 7, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> Just curious, when did Long Beach start requiring companies to have a city certification?
> 
> Are you working for the company that regularly runs Pacific Hospital of LB ER to Pacific Hosp Psych?


On tuesday I will take a picture for you.


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## JPINFV (Jun 7, 2009)

Ok, so it's a recent change. Interesting.


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## ocemt (Jun 7, 2009)

Another issue is that although L.A. county accepts EMT certs from other counties, they still require ANY EMT picking up in their county to be certified in the expanded scope of practice. This company employs maybe 80 EMT's and none of us have ever done a class. Trust me, ALL of us in this company are aware of the L.A. county regulations. We talk about it all the time among each other. And i think management is aware too. Believe it or not there have been a couple EMTs get fired for refusing to run a call (dialysis) in L.A. county. Not because it was at their end of shift but because they knew it was illegal for them to pick up there.


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## JPINFV (Jun 7, 2009)

80 EMTs, OC Company?
I think I know which company now. 

White truck, blue line, company logo is a shield? Not Pacific.


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## ocemt (Jun 7, 2009)

HA! white truck blue AND grey line. Not a shield, but....


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## Sapphyre (Jun 8, 2009)

ocemt said:


> Another issue is that although L.A. county accepts EMT certs from other counties, they still require ANY EMT picking up in their county to be certified in the expanded scope of practice. This company employs maybe 80 EMT's and none of us have ever done a class. Trust me, ALL of us in this company are aware of the L.A. county regulations. We talk about it all the time among each other. And i think management is aware too. Believe it or not there have been a couple EMTs get fired for refusing to run a call (dialysis) in L.A. county. Not because it was at their end of shift but because they knew it was illegal for them to pick up there.



Um, the LA County expanded scope isn't really much of an expanded scope.  Only thing that was new from B school, for me was Chemo spill procedures and the 2-pam auto injectors....  It's "expanded" because LA County actually restricts basics, then, gives them the skills back, it's weird, and, yeah, you're supposed to have some sort of documentation that you know that stuff.


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## JPINFV (Jun 8, 2009)

ocemt said:


> HA! white truck blue AND grey line. Not a shield, but....



Well, alrighty then. Considering that they have an LA (and SD) division, it's not like they don't know the regulations. I'm also kinda of surprised that they only have 80 EMTs. I thought that they were larger than that in OC.


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## ocemt (Jun 13, 2009)

Its probably bigger. im not counting part timers. im only going with what their schedule asks in regards to full timers. dont get me wrong. I think this company is the best to work for around here. And yes, they should know the rules for each county but when one certain county (L.A.) gets busy and they cant handle their calls its up to us to cross over and help out. Maybe they should do a huge employee meeting and just lay out their rationale for what they do. Hearing it from way upper management might ease some employee internal union talk.


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## ocemt (Jun 13, 2009)

I mentioned earlier that i had emailed L.A county ems with questions. They emailed back. below is what they replied;

Your e-mail was forwarded to me. Here are my answers to your questions.

hi, this email is for anyone that can answer these questions. many of my fellow emt's are curious to hear the answers. thank you in advance.
i currently work for a private ambulance company in orange county as an emt. all of their ambulances are orange county certified but not L.A. county. 
nor are any emt's. we have been told constantly to go into L.A. county, as far as the san fernando valley, to pick up patients. we also know of the L.A. city certification that we need for L.A. city pick up. 

An ambulance company must be licensed by the municipality or County in which it operates.  
An ambulance licensed by Orange County can ONLY drop off patients in LA County.  
An ambulance licensed by Orange County CANNOT pick-up patients in LA County.

LA City DOT permits are required by LA City when operating in LA City only.  

LA County does not require EMT's to be certified by LA County.  We recognize EMT certification issued by any California County EMS Agency or other California approved certifying authority.  So, an EMT with an Orange County EMS Agency issued EMT certification is able to work in LA County.  We do require that when an EMT is working in our County that they have completed training in the LA County EMT Expanded Scope of Practice.

do i need to be la county certified to pick up a patient in L.A. county, or L.A. city for that matter? 
do the ambulances need to be L.A. county certified, or L.A. city if we pick up out of there?

You are NOT able to pick-up patients unless the ambulance is licensed by LA County 

what is the penalty for not having them, if we need them?

Both the ambulance company and EMT are liable for violating the LA County Ambulance Ordinance which is posted on the EMS Agency web site at www.ems.dhs.lacounty.gov 

Many of my fellow employees have been asking this question but our management will not give us a straight answer. now we know that we are responsible for our own licenses but management has told us we will get fired for refusing to run a call if we do not comply. we are all concerned and basically afraid of loosing our licenses if we are doing anything illegal. once again we thank you in advance and hope you can clarify this matter. 

Please call or e-mail with any further questions.


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## NREMTB12 (Jun 13, 2009)

dont know if it would be considered an ambulance regulation, but i know one local service around here that has in the medical code that they allow the use of I/O drills on the ambulance, but they do not stock the ambulances as such, when one medic put them on, the systems coord. told them to be pulled off even though I/O therapy is in the SOP's

anyone else run into any problems like this....???


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## Sweetheart35 (Oct 1, 2009)

*Ambulance Regulation???*

Does the state of Pennsylvania allow you to ride in an ambulance, if the person in the ambulance depends on you physically, etc?   Can anyone help me? preferably an EMT.




Thank you, Lynn.


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