# Fire Department single role EMT/Paramedics



## Jim37F (Aug 6, 2013)

So I just found out that the Glendale Fire Department (Los Angeles County, CA) hires EMTs as part time, non sworn, Ambulance Operators. Not entirely sure if that's just as a driver or attendant as well on the BLS rigs. 

http://fire.ci.glendale.ca.us/ambulanceoperator.asp

Basically I thought that all the local FD's that used their own ambulances crewed them with fully trained/sworn FF/EMTs and/or FF/Ps as opposed to single role EMT/Paramedics. 

Does anyone know if any other local FDs have single role EMS as well? I'm personally interested in LA, Orange and San Diego Counties, but what about other parts of the country?


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## Amberlamps916 (Aug 6, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> So I just found out that the Glendale Fire Department (Los Angeles County, CA) hires EMTs as part time, non sworn, Ambulance Operators. Not entirely sure if that's just as a driver or attendant as well on the BLS rigs.
> 
> http://fire.ci.glendale.ca.us/ambulanceoperator.asp
> 
> ...




It's either driver or attendant. It's a way to cut costs for those departments that utilize ambulance operators. Think of the way LA and OC uses private ambulances for 911. The medic will jump on if needed. 

 There are a few departments that I know who do this.......Compton, Downey, Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach, Huntington Beach, Hermosa Beach, Long Beach, La Habra, and Pasadena.


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## mike1390 (Aug 6, 2013)

Glendale is an interesting model, to save money the city decided to do away with staffing FF/PM on the ambulances and went with the A/O program. These EMTs will handle all the BLS calls and (not sure is its fully functionally yet) will transport a FF/PM off the engine if the pt requires ALS. Glendale realized its much cheaper to pay 2 EMTs 12-13/hr than to pay 2 FF/PM.

Escondido has now started a similar program to save money they have started hiring single function medics to staff RAs, now these are not career positions they are stating their medics off at around 14.50/hr, both glendale and Escondido are clearly catering to the individual who wants to be a FF/ FF/pm one day, and is using this as a stepping stone into the department. 

Some beach cities have part time/full time AO programs, very good way to get into a department. Glendale has recently said if you are an AO you don't have to take the written test for fire recruit, Long Beach only opened their firefighter app to current city employees which would be the AOs.

http://www.hermosabch.org/index.aspx?page=157
http://www.longbeach.gov/fire/lbfd_employment/ao/
http://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/go...tRecruitmentInformation/ambulance_program.cfm
http://agency.governmentjobs.com/compton/default.cfm?action=viewclassspec&ClassSpecID=751038


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## Jim37F (Aug 6, 2013)

Hmm...lets see, I'm currently in a non emergent IFT company, want to go 911, eventually FF/P, sounds like almost the exact same job as an EMT at a company with an EOA, yet better pay, can't imagine the FD dispatching its own ambulances to run non 911 IFTs so no more of those and your actually working for the department not a contractor? Sounds like wins all around to me


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## mike1390 (Aug 6, 2013)

well keep an eye out for Long Beach and Glendale since both are probably going to be hiring from their AOs very soon, that should open up some spots.

https://beta.governmentjobs.com/jobs/691003/ambulance-operator
actually you can apply now.


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## Jim37F (Aug 7, 2013)

Applied at Glendale Ambulance Operator job last night, as well as their Fore Recruit while I was at it. I looked into Pasadena's EMSR program and it looks like its a volunteer program instead of an actual paying job, and they're not currently accepting applications there right now


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## brian328 (Aug 7, 2013)

the A/O concept is pretty cool deal for both the fire department and EMT. as an EMT, you will gain A LOT of 911 experience as well as learning how to live in the fire house (station duties, cooking, etc). depending on the department, you will do training with them. it's good for the fire dept because they can pay 2 EMTs to staff an ambulance as opposed to 2 FF/PM. the downside is most of the time it is a 3 year contract, and they usually don't have an ambulance for each station, so you will be running multiple calls with different crews. but when the dept is hiring, they usually hire A/O's (because they are familiar with department policies and procedures).


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## USMCemt (Aug 12, 2013)

Hey Jim, I also applied for the Glendale AO. I am coming from an ALS rig as an EMT in the Imperial County. The AO sounds like a real good opportunity.


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## Danno (Aug 13, 2013)

I just got hired as a Glendale AO (Whole process was ~1.5 years), my academy started yesterday.  Feel free to ask any questions ill try my best to answer.


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## Jim37F (Aug 13, 2013)

Danno said:


> I just got hired as a Glendale AO (Whole process was ~1.5 years), my academy started yesterday.  Feel free to ask any questions ill try my best to answer.



1 and a half years? Is that the normal process? What does the normal process consist of? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to answer on the open forum.


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## Danno (Aug 14, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> 1 and a half years? Is that the normal process? What does the normal process consist of? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to answer on the open forum.



Yeah...its a job with a city. on top of that you're going through the identical process their FF's go through.


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## USMCemt (Aug 14, 2013)

Danno said:


> Yeah...its a job with a city. on top of that you're going through the identical process their FF's go through.



The time frame fits well with my current plans. Did you have prior experience as an emt? Are you a medic or will you be able to attend medic school or a fire academy? Long term aspirations for me are to be a fire/medic and work per diem as a nurse.  I have 9 months left in nursing school.


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## Danno (Aug 14, 2013)

I worked for the past 1.5 years in a busy 911 setting, and i have plans to attend medic school in the very near future.  They are willing to grant leave of absences for medic school/FAs.


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## USMCemt (Aug 14, 2013)

Danno said:


> I worked for the past 1.5 years in a busy 911 setting, and i have plans to attend medic school in the very near future.  They are willing to grant leave of absences for medic school/FAs.



Thanks for the response and the leave of absence is a awesome deal.


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## Jim37F (Aug 14, 2013)

Danno said:


> Yeah...its a job with a city. on top of that you're going through the identical process their FF's go through.



The FF process taking a year plus doesn't surprise me, I guess I just figured a part time AO job would be a shorter time from test to starting your first shift, but I guess the private company process spoiled my expectations lol



USMCemt said:


> Danno said:
> 
> 
> > I worked for the past 1.5 years in a busy 911 setting, and i have plans to attend medic school in the very near future.  They are willing to grant leave of absences for medic school/FAs.
> ...



Yeah that's def a big plus for me too, I'd love to go to medic school and fire academy within the next couple years


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## USMCemt (Aug 14, 2013)

Danno,

Is there a study guide for the AO written test, or should I utilize the fpsi guide for the fire recruit test?


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## Danno (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't know what the fpsi guide is, but the AO written is all national registry type stuff.


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## USMCemt (Aug 14, 2013)

danno said:


> i don't know what the fpsi guide is, but the ao written is all national registry type stuff.



10-4


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## Amberlamps916 (Aug 15, 2013)

I wonder if they'll make you guys learn Armenian, since Glendale is 99% Armenian lol.


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## Jim37F (Aug 15, 2013)

Addrobo said:


> I wonder if they'll make you guys learn Armenian, since Glendale is 99% Armenian lol.



Actually not a bad idea lol, a few months back I transported a little old Armenian lady out of GMHHC, she didn't want to go but got talked into going by her daughter. Didn't speak a lock of English but apparently thought we were police, long story short I'm pretty sure I was getting thoroughly cussed out in Armenian lol


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## Jim37F (Aug 30, 2013)

Sweet, I'm scheduled for both the Ambulance Operator and the Firefighter Recruit written tests for the City of Glendale!


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## unleashedfury (Aug 30, 2013)

Do you have to go through the Fire Recruit Acadamey as a A/O? or is this like the entry level position where you can promote to FF/EMT or FF/P? 

I know the FDNY has that lateral transfer exam that apparently the FF's frown upon. 

I think its a good idea in a way but it can also backfire. if being a A/O is easier to get on the Fire side of the job. Pt. care may start to be of lower standard as you'll get fire fighter guys who want to be firefighters just getting on the box to get in.


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## islandmedic (Aug 30, 2013)

Jim37F said:


> Sweet, I'm scheduled for both the Ambulance Operator and the Firefighter Recruit written tests for the City of Glendale!



Is your AO test on the 13th? If so, see you there!


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## Jim37F (Aug 30, 2013)

islandmedic said:


> Is your AO test on the 13th? If so, see you there!



That it is, 8:30am


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## brian328 (Aug 31, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> Do you have to go through the Fire Recruit Acadamey as a A/O? or is this like the entry level position where you can promote to FF/EMT or FF/P?
> 
> I know the FDNY has that lateral transfer exam that apparently the FF's frown upon.
> 
> I think its a good idea in a way but it can also backfire. if being a A/O is easier to get on the Fire side of the job. Pt. care may start to be of lower standard as you'll get fire fighter guys who want to be firefighters just getting on the box to get in.



no fire academy needed for A/O (but it is preferred). you can not promote from this position, but departments usually hire from their A/O program because they are familiar with the way the department runs, area, etc. of course you would still have to test, interview, etc, but odds are you are going to know somebody on your interview panel..

i don't think the A/O program will lower the standard of care. there are plenty of departments that use it with great success. most of the guys that get these A/O jobs are pretty motivated from what i have seen. i would think patient care would be equal or greater than department standards as an A/O because the firefighters/medics will see first hand how you deal with patients and that can affect your future hiring with the dept as a FF/medic.


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## terrible one (Aug 31, 2013)

unleashedfury said:


> if being a A/O is easier to get on the Fire side of the job. Pt. care may start to be of lower standard as you'll get fire fighter guys who want to be firefighters just getting on the box to get in.




That already happens in SoCal. A large number of FDs require a paramedic license just to apply, therefore you have a large number of applicants that could care less about medical care but use it as an entry to the fire service. I wonder if they realize fire incidents are decreasing every year and medical calls are increasing? So most of their time will be spent attending to patients they tried dismissing once they received that Maltese cross.


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## Danno (Aug 31, 2013)

brian328 said:


> no fire academy needed for A/O (but it is preferred). you can not promote from this position, but departments usually hire from their A/O program because they are familiar with the way the department runs, area, etc. of course you would still have to test, interview, etc, but odds are you are going to know somebody on your interview panel..



To clarify, Glendale in particular will allow promotions from their AO program, however, only 30% of the total number of hires can be from the promotional list.  Being on the promotional list allows you to jump straight into the chief's oral interview.


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## brian328 (Aug 31, 2013)

Danno said:


> To clarify, Glendale in particular will allow promotions from their AO program, however, only 30% of the total number of hires can be from the promotional list.  Being on the promotional list allows you to jump straight into the chief's oral interview.



Cooli was not aware of that. Thats not a commong thing though is it?


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## Danno (Aug 31, 2013)

brian328 said:


> Cooli was not aware of that. Thats not a commong thing though is it?



Well this is the first time they've hired for FF since the introduction of the AO program, so theres no real precedent.


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## unleashedfury (Aug 31, 2013)

terrible one said:


> That already happens in SoCal. A large number of FDs require a paramedic license just to apply, therefore you have a large number of applicants that could care less about medical care but use it as an entry to the fire service. I wonder if they realize fire incidents are decreasing every year and medical calls are increasing? So most of their time will be spent attending to patients they tried dismissing once they received that Maltese cross.



That's where my issue is Most firefighters can successfully function as a EMR, or EMT without no further training. 

If your gonna be in a combination dept. with Fire Based EMS. then yes rotations to the box should happen regularly and that should be part of the job description 

There are firefighters that are great firefighters that have no interest in the medical side of things. And that's fine. Let them be great firefighters. As there as medics who have no interest in fire. Which again is fine. Let them be medics. 

From what I seen around the areas I've been too, Being on the box is almost a punishment for some depts. and others have their FF/P rotate for a 90 day rotation on the bus. So 3 months out of the year you spend on those skills. Not a efficient EMS system. I have a friend who is a FF/P and he says flat out he takes PRN shifts where I work just to keep his skills up.


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