# Does CA require hazmat training for EMT-Bs?



## Seaglass (Jul 15, 2009)

Would anyone happen to know this? And if so, how much? I'm not finding it in the state requirements, but a friend who should know is insisting it does...

(As to why I'm asking, long boring story involving lots of paperwork.)


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## sdaileyemt (Jul 15, 2009)

No. Unless at a fire department then some require. My instructor is a EMT-P and FF for the Sac airport and he has Hazmat. But no it is not a requirement to be a EMT in CA. Like I am about to take NR and work for AMR and I have not herd of ANYONE working there who is Hazmat certed tell your friend he is whack


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## rescue99 (Jul 15, 2009)

HazMat awareness is NR standard and likely to be standard in every state. I can't speak for every state but, awareness is about 4 hours here now. Since I am neither a content expert on the subject nor a firefighter, it is required that I bring such a person in to teach this portion of the course. I do however recall back when I took either the Basic or Medic, we had a 12 hour course and did certify at the awareness level.


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## sdaileyemt (Jul 16, 2009)

Hmmm well apologize for making fun of your friend. I will ask around tommorow and find out for sure for you


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## VCEMT (Jul 16, 2009)

No, unless your county protocols say so. Fire handles HAZMAT, that is their job. My company did some training with HAZMAT so we know what our roles would be and what to look out for. We just wait until the patients are decon'd and we just take 'em.

 You can go get one, it really doesn't matter unless you're volunteer firefighter.


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## Sapphyre (Jul 16, 2009)

I had awareness in basic class, and officially certed as aware when I was hired (and, have to retake every year). It's basically, what to look out for, and where to stage should you be first on.


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## Seaglass (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks, everyone! Now things make more sense. Some calls to the county/training agency should straighten everything out.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 16, 2009)

The Brady and AAOS EMT books have a section on special scene conditions and do mention Hazmat Issues... and I do remember a 30 minute power point on it way back when, but an actual Awareness Level HazMat Cetification?  Not required for EMT, but might be for a particular employer.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

There should be some type of awareness training program as well as meeting the requirements of CA's OSHA.

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/pubs/pdf/emsa216.pdf


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## atropine (Jul 16, 2009)

No there is no training like this for emt-B's, if you work private your just a grunt worker for the company. If your going work for a city/county/municipal agency then yes you will at least get the awareness level of training


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

atropine said:


> No there is no training like this for emt-B's, if you work private your just a grunt worker for the company. If your going work for a city/county/municipal agency then yes you will at least get the awareness level of training


 
Wrong.  Yes, I understand you are just taking a shot at bashing non-fire agencies again but it also shows your lack of knowledge about EMS and your state or even the definition of hazmat. 

Read the link I posted and also become familar with the OSHA regs for your state.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> but an actual Awareness Level HazMat Cetification? Not required for EMT, but might be for a particular employer.


 
Do you really need a certificate or a patch for everything you learn?  Is it just about the skills or if there isn'ta cert or a patch involved you don't pay attention?

Even if you are not spoon fed the regulations word for word,  there are certain safety practices that must be adhered to even if you don't encount an overturned tanker each day.  You as well as your employer have a responsibility to see that you are aware of this.  They mightalso be part of that boring stuff in your refresher or protocol book that you pay no attention to.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 16, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Do you really need a certificate or a patch for everything you learn?  Is it just about the skills or if there isn'ta cert or a patch involved you don't pay attention?
> 
> Even if you are not spoon fed the regulations word for word,  there are certain safety practices that must be adhered to even if you don't encount an overturned tanker each day.  You as well as your employer have a responsibility to see that you are aware of this.  They mightalso be part of that boring stuff in your refresher or protocol book that you pay no attention to.



Absolutely.  But, some employeers want those certifications to prove that their employees are capable.  i.e. my team would like it if every team member had (at minimum) offical Swiftwater Awareness training and certification so that the newbies on the team, with not rescuer abilities, are not a liability and know their place.  We settle for in-service trainingthat explains the key points of Swiftwater Awareness as it applys to what we do and how we do it.  We do this through the training manual and team trainings.  I personaly could care less about the piece of paper saying "LOOK WHAT I KNOW!"  I want the training for the sake of education and being better at what I do.  As far as HazMat goes... yes, I took an Awareness Class once upon a time for by benifit, not because anyone said I needed it... so that I had a little more knowledge on calls.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 16, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Wrong.  Yes, I understand you are just taking a shot at bashing non-fire agencies again but it also shows your lack of knowledge about EMS and your state or even the definition of hazmat.
> 
> Read the link I posted and also become familar with the OSHA regs for your state.



Did you read your own link?  These are _*recommended guidelines *_in CA.  It is recommending that all emergency workers recieve HazMat training in anticipation for a WMD-type attack.  It includes recommendations that ambos should carry certain gear for proper PPE (jackets, gloves, helmets, N95 masks, etc... ) and what I consider USAR survival gear (water purification methods, daypacks, prophylactic medications, MREs, etc...); items I have yet to see on any Ambo (including the BLS IFT units they are suggesting thes items be on).  Nice concepts in theory... not happening in real life and unlikely to until after it is needed.  Unless something has changed in the last few hours, I am still under the impression that official HazMat training and certication (beyond the 2 pages in the course books) is not required to be an EMT, but should be considered by anyone serious about EMS and should be offered by an responsible agency/county.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Absolutely. But, some employeers want those certifications to prove that their employees are capable. i.e. my team would like it if every team member had (at minimum) offical Swiftwater Awareness training and certification


 
First of all there are different levels of hazmat training which is why the training is necessary to recognize when a higher trainer provider is required for different situations. *EVERY PERSON* involved in health care and emergency response in this country should be aware of hazmat situations and yes, that is training. It does NOT make one qualified from performing actual hazmat duties but it can keep them from getting hurt. That was addressed decades ago but unfortunately some in EMS don't understand this because they are waiting for the state to offer them another pretty patch or know the difference between the required training or education or the extensive knowledge of specialty training. 

So is hazmat training required for some type of an awareness and just for everyday safe work practices, absolutely. These are common sense mandates and yes an employer should keep records that they also provided the training to ensure everyone is up to date and to meet whatever requirements in their state.



Mountain Res-Q said:


> Did you read your own link? These are _*recommended guidelines *_in CA. It is recommending that all emergency workers recieve HazMat training in anticipation for a WMD-type attack.


 
Read my above statements. As well, have you ever heard of OSHA and its requirements? Why do some in EMS believe they are so different from other healthcare professionals?



> I have yet to see on any Ambo (including the BLS IFT units they are suggesting thes items be on).


 
Are you saying these ambulances do not carry gloves or masks and do not have the ability to dispose of bloody items? Now that is a very sad statement for the providers on that truck to not know enough to complain. So yes, they would have absolutely no training and probably should not have been certified.

BTW, have you read about some of the different hazmat situations in CA recently where the ambulance crews had to recognize and take precautions?


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 16, 2009)

I fail to see where you find argument Vent... like usual.  All I am saying is that in order to be an EMT in California no formal HazMat training (beyond what is in the course Books as prescribed by DOT) is required.  The OP was asking if addition HazMAt training was required.  In 8 years as an EMT, I have never been told (by an employeer, by the state EMS, by a county, or by a certifying agency) that I needed to have any HazMat certification.  As I said before, such training is recommended and should be offered... and we all WILL follow OSHAs standards, use common safety precaution in everything we do, and use common sense when it comes to dealing with a potential HazMat situation... but it is my understand ing that this thread was about actual HazMat Awarenss Level Certification being requied for EMTs in CA... and if they are required... no one told me and I guess thousands of certifcations across CA just became invalid!

As far as what is on an ambo... duh... of course they all have gloves, masks, and other ppe... but has anyone here ever had an ambo, or engine, or helo that had all the items listed there, including "water purification methods, daypacks, prophylactic medications, MREs"?  Seriously.  MRE's and water purifiers?  Sure I have all that in my SAR pack... but even I don't carry medications to protect me against anthrax or monkey pox.  That much of a whacker, I am not!!!


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## Sapphyre (Jul 16, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> As far as what is on an ambo... duh... of course they all have gloves, masks, and other ppe... but has anyone here ever had an ambo, or engine, or helo that had all the items listed there, including "water purification methods, daypacks, prophylactic medications, MREs"?  Seriously.  MRE's and water purifiers?  Sure I have all that in my SAR pack... but even I don't carry medications to protect me against anthrax or monkey pox.  That much of a whacker, I am not!!!



Come take a tour of my rig sometime Mountain, you might be surprised....
Most of the aforementioned material was provided by my company, and the rest is brought on by crews daily.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> I fail to see where you find argument Vent... like usual. All I am saying is that in order to be an EMT in California no formal HazMat training (*beyond what is in the course Books as prescribed by DOT)* is required. The OP was asking if addition HazMAt training was required.


 
So you believe the recognition of hazmat situations and protection against is not training? Because you didn't get a pretty patch for it? 

Did you not read the question by the OP?

*




**Does CA require hazmat training for EMT-Bs**?*



> but it is my understand ing that this thread was about actual HazMat Awarenss Level Certification


 
It says NOTHING about getting a certification. Do you not understand the difference between training just for knowledge to use everyday and that which is a specialty that gets you a pretty patch?

And, everyone should be aware of the OSHA guidelinse since that is where you'll find out why you can not eat in the patient compartment of an ambulance.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 16, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> Come take a tour of my rig sometime Mountain, you might be surprised....
> Most of the aforementioned material was provided by my company, and the rest is brought on by crews daily.



Water purification methods?  Prophylactic medications on the rigs?  Daypacks (as in a 72 hours survival type, urban disaster, the sky is falling supplies - not your laptop and vitamin water)?  We all have that in SAR and they weigh 35-45 pounds and takes up half a truck.  

Cool.  Not that I am knocking it... I have seen "Red Dawn" and when the Russians and Cuban attack... you will be ready...  ^_^



VentMedic said:


> So you believe the recognition of hazmat situations and protection against is not training?  Because you didn't get a pretty patch for it?
> 
> Did you not read the question by the OP?
> 
> ...



Maybe the OP didn't mean certifying training... but that was the impression I got.  Once again... is that training required TO BE AN EMT?  As I said before... it is in the DOT cirriculum for EMT... so yes, the piss-poor, basic, one-related question in the national test, training is required TO BE AN EMT.  And I said before... I do not need an patches or paper work to prove what I know.  Instead of ready just every other sentance in someones posts, read the entire thing.  You seem to ask a lot of questions in sarcasm that were already answered and were, in fact, agreeing with you.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Water purification methods? Prophylactic medications on the rigs? Daypacks (as in a 72 hours survival type, urban disaster, the sky is falling supplies - not your laptop and vitamin water)? We all have that in SAR and they weigh 35-45 pounds and takes up half a truck.
> 
> Cool. Not that I am knocking it... I have seen "Red Dawn" and when the Russians and Cuban attack... you will be ready... ^_^


 
Did you not read the link I posted?  And where have you been for the past 10 years?   Have you not ever had to take any updates for the prophlactic medications?   

In CA, 72 hours is probably just barely enough for the potential disasters that could and have happened with earthquakes.  Many services in FL also have those packs that can go onto the trucks if they are working during a disaster.


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## JPINFV (Jul 16, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Did you read your own link?  These are _*recommended guidelines *_in CA.  It is recommending that all emergency workers recieve HazMat training in anticipation for a WMD-type attack.  It includes recommendations that ambos should carry certain gear for proper PPE (jackets, gloves, helmets, N95 masks, etc... ) and what I consider USAR survival gear (water purification methods, daypacks, prophylactic medications, MREs, etc...); items I have yet to see on any Ambo (including the BLS IFT units they are suggesting thes items be on).  Nice concepts in theory... not happening in real life and unlikely to until after it is needed.  Unless something has changed in the last few hours, I am still under the impression that official HazMat training and certication (beyond the 2 pages in the course books) is not required to be an EMT, but should be considered by anyone serious about EMS and should be offered by an responsible agency/county.




When I worked in OC OCEMS provided all of the ambulances, including IFT companies, with a WMD kit that included escape respirator, body suit, boot covers, gloves, and a few other things. I know that, at a minimum, Care Ambulance had Mark1 kits on each of their ambulances.


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## Sapphyre (Jul 16, 2009)

JPINFV said:


> When I worked in OC OCEMS provided all of the ambulances, including IFT companies, with a WMD kit that included escape respirator, body suit, boot covers, gloves, and a few other things. I know that, at a minimum, Care Ambulance had Mark1 kits on each of their ambulances.



Care's not the only one.  And neither is OCEMS...  

To Mountain, no, we don't carry water purification, but, nearly all of use carry large amounts of water on shift, and food, yes, we bring it, because, we work nights.  No need to bring clothes, no need for a sleeping bag, both cut down a large amount of what's in your pack.

BTW, A "daypack" is actually a 24 hour pack, not a 72 hour pack, and I know you know the difference.

Sorry Mountain, you're not the only SAR person here.


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## JPINFV (Jul 16, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> Care's not the only one.  And neither is OCEMS...



No doubt, but I can't vouch for what other counties have provided for their ambulance companies or what other companies have Mark1 kits. On the other hand, I have first hand knowledge about OCEMS equipment and Care.


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## atropine (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah vent about that link not buying it we don't even carry that stuff on our type 1 engine, just because their required to carry it (the ambulance people) doesn't meant their forced to learn about it at any level. Many moons ago when I worked BLS for AMR in LA County we didn't have any formal training about hazmat other than let the FD handle it, ofcourse this was vack in 98, so thing may have changed a little since then.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

atropine said:


> Yeah vent about that link not buying it we don't even carry that stuff on our type 1 engine, just because their required to carry it (the ambulance people) doesn't meant their forced to learn about it at any level. Many moons ago when I worked BLS for AMR in LA County we didn't have any formal training about hazmat other than let the FD handle it, ofcourse this was vack in 98, so thing may have changed a little since then.


 
Read the posts again. I guess I would be expecting too much from your department to be with the rest of the EMS world. However, you do work for a FD, correct? Are you telling me you know nothing about the things mentioned? Do you even know how broad hazmat training is? Honestly, have you  never taken any updates? Is this county you are in really that much out of touch and out of date? I find this just shameful that in the year 2009, with this country being involved in two wars, transworld transport of various hazardous materials and infectious diseases that you do not have basic knowledge of this as an EMT.


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## atropine (Jul 16, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Read the posts again. I guess I would be expecting too much from your department to be with the rest of the EMS world. However, you do work for a FD, correct? Are you telling me you know nothing about the things mentioned? Do you even know how broad hazmat training is? Honestly, have you  never taken any updates? Is this county you are in really that much out of touch and out of date? I find this just shameful that in the year 2009, with this country being involved in two wars, transworld transport of various hazardous materials and infectious diseases that you do not have basic knowledge of this as an EMT.



yo take a chill pill, I am trained to the awareness level, and yes we have many hazmat units in and around the city, just not that interested in being a hazmat guy that's all. As far as the link it just list required equipment, don't think the privates are going spend any additional $$$ on formal training for there employees thats all.


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## VentMedic (Jul 16, 2009)

atropine said:


> yo take a chill pill, I am trained to the awareness level, and yes we have many hazmat units in and around the city, just not that interested in being a hazmat guy that's all. As far as the link it just list required equipment, don't think the privates are going spend any additional $$$ on formal training for there employees thats all.


 
There have already been examples of the private ambulance services carrying some of the equipment.   Again, do you understand how broad hazmat is and what an EMT-B should know just to stay safe?  Do you know there is a difference in the training expected for an EMS provider and one that specializes in it?    The primary concern for EMS is the medical aspect but unfortunately there will be times they will be faced with hazmat situations.  Since the State of CA has published guidelines and there is an least an overview in the EMT-B course, one shouldn't play ignorant. Nor, should one not be aware of the safety guidelines set forth by Federal and State agencies.


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## atropine (Jul 17, 2009)

Okay I agree that emt-B's should be trained at least to the awareness level, but I doubt that most will do to private capitalism and no enforcement, fair enough.


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## triemal04 (Jul 17, 2009)

So, to ignore people sniping back and forth at each other (I'd say *****ing at each other but that would be censored) and summarize this thread for the OP, here goes.

Yes, if you become an EMT in California (or really anywhere else) you will get some HazMat training.  It won't be a lot and probably won't actually certify you at the Awareness/Ops/Technician levels (though I suppose there could be some screwy place that actually does that) but you'll at least get a very, very rudimentary and basic understanding of it.  Oh, and there is a list of items related to HazMat situations and disasters that is recommended to have on ambulances and the like in California, but they're not required, and whether or not you actually get trained on how to use the items on that list is up to your employer.

Bottom line:  if you like HazMat then take the EMT course and realize that you will need much more training elsewhere.  If you don't like HazMat then take the EMT course and don't worry about it.


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## rescue99 (Jul 17, 2009)

The DOT standard curriculum has a requirement for EMS awareness level. No matter which program a student enters, there is an amount of Haz albiet, not more than what is covered in the text. Anything more is icing.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Jul 17, 2009)

Sapphyre said:


> BTW, A "daypack" is actually a 24 hour pack, not a 72 hour pack, and I know you know the difference.
> 
> Sorry Mountain, you're not the only SAR person here.



Read the link again.  While a day pack in SAR is typically 12-24 hours.  In that wonderful link they have it listed as containing enough supplies for 72 hours.  I don't call that a daypack... but this is what the "standard" is apparently.


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