# Ambulance driver makes a pit stop at Subway



## MMiz (Dec 10, 2010)

*Ambulance driver makes a pit stop at Subway*

While Jerrold Winiecki lay in an ambulance, struggling to breathe, the vehicle suddenly pulled off the road and parked. The ambulance driver got out and paid a quick visit to Subway.

*Read more!*


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## MrBrown (Dec 10, 2010)

At least it wasn't in the UK this time, right?


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## JPINFV (Dec 10, 2010)

I'll give a pass for the reason, but not a pass for either failing to document the pit stop nor informing the patient the reason for it.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Dec 10, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> I'll give a pass for the reason, but not a pass for either failing to document the pit stop nor informing the patient the reason for it.



Same here.


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## EMSLaw (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> I'll give a pass for the reason, but not a pass for either failing to document the pit stop nor informing the patient the reason for it.



The article doesn't say that it wasn't documented, though obviously they didn't inform the patient.  Fortunately, the brief stop didn't have any negative effect on the patient, which makes this all merely a very silly story.

Now, if they had stopped at the liquor store, I would have been more concerned.


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## WTEngel (Dec 11, 2010)

One of our pilots had such a bad case of diarrhea once that we diverted to the closest airport and had to cancel the flight.

It is unfortunate, and thankfully doesn't happen that often, but we are human, right? Also, the thing with these GI issues is a lot of times they just come out of the blue and the situation becomes pretty urgent pretty quickly.

Now, had we had an unstable patient with threat to life or limb, the pilot may have chosen not to land and to soil the seat and the aircraft, but that wasn't the case thankfully. You also have to consider that a person having uncontrolled diarrhea in the ambulance is an infection control issue also. 

Anyway, I am preaching to the choir here I am sure, it is just frustrating to see these types of stories told with no perspective from the provider's side. I feel bad for the provider because it is an embarrassing situation, I feel bad for the family because it happened during their "emergency", but mostly am thankful that the patient is ok.

Lastly...kudos to the ambulance company for looking at the situation objectively and coming out in support of the provider. In a day where knee jerk reactions to public opinion are so common, it is nice to see management explain to the public in a responsible way what really happened.


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## anestheticmedic (Dec 11, 2010)

What's an ambulance driver?


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## medic417 (Dec 11, 2010)

anestheticmedic said:


> What's an ambulance driver?



An emt-b?


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

anestheticmedic said:


> What's an ambulance driver?



An "ambulance driver" is a person who drives an ambulance.

Pretty self-explanatory, really.


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## Shishkabob (Dec 11, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> An "ambulance driver" is a person who drives an ambulance.





They tend to work with police-car drivers and firetruck drivers, too.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> An "ambulance driver" is a person who drives an ambulance.
> 
> Pretty self-explanatory, really.



This. The ambulance driver is the person who, in the US, sits in the front left side of the ambulance and moves a wheel and pushes pedals to control, or in other words drive, the ambulance. EMS providers really need to grow a thicker skin, especially when the term "ambulance driver" is used appropriately and not just as a generic term for "those people who come on an ambulance because EMS providers are too lazy and disinterested to give the public one common name to use to describe themselves without them crying like little babies."


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## Shishkabob (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> This. The ambulance driver is the person who, in the US, sits in the front left side of the ambulance and moves a wheel and pushes pedals to control, or in other words drive, the ambulance. EMS providers really need to grow a thicker skin, especially when the term "ambulance driver" is used appropriately and not just as a generic term for "those people who come on an ambulance because EMS providers are too lazy and disinterested to give the public one common name to use to describe themselves without them crying like little babies."



Meh... I tend to disagree.


How many different kinds of police officer are there?  And yet, does Joe Public go around calling them "Police-car drivers"?


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> This. The ambulance driver is the person who, in the US, sits in the front left side of the ambulance and moves a wheel and pushes pedals to control, or in other words drive, the ambulance. EMS providers really need to grow a thicker skin, especially when the term "ambulance driver" is used appropriately and not just as a generic term for "those people who come on an ambulance because EMS providers are too lazy and disinterested to give the public one common name to use to describe themselves without them crying like little babies."



Exactly, and as Linuss pointed out, police cars and fire trucks (using the term generically to include all fire apparatus) have drivers, too. I mean, these vehicles don't just drive themselves. 

To put it another way: When a person is driving a vehicle, that person is a driver.

When a lawyer drives his car to work, he's a car driver, not an Attorney Transportation Vehicle Operator.


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## Shishkabob (Dec 11, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> When a lawyer drives his car to work, he's a car driver, not an Attorney Transportation Vehicle Operator.



Ahh.. but do we call lawyers "Courtroom talkers"?


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Meh... I tend to disagree.
> 
> 
> How many different kinds of police officer are there?  And yet, does Joe Public go around calling them "Police-car drivers"?




The fire department calls them engineers, vehicle operators, or (gasp) chauffeur. Would you feel better if the driver was called an "ambulance chauffeur?"

Police officers often work alone, and when they are working a dual car share the same general responsibilities. It isn't like one police officer rides in the back with the suspect when driving back to the station.

Similarly, a fire fighter isn't going to chafe at being called a fire fighter regardless of if the fire fighter is a fire fighter or an officer. The fire chief is still a fire fighter.

A police officer isn't going to chafe at being called a police officer regardless of whether the officer is just an officer, is a detective, or some other rank. The chief of police is a police officer.

However, call an EMT a "paramedic" and people get mad. Call a paramedic an "EMT" and people get mad. Call them "EMS providers" or "first responders" and people get mad. I find it unreasonable to think that the public should be aware and be able to instantly recognize every single level of EMS provider.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> When a lawyer drives his car to work, he's a car driver, not an Attorney Transportation Vehicle Operator.



The lawyer's job doesn't involve driving past getting themselves from place to place. If they drive or take public transit, it doesn't matter. Driving an emergency vehicle is an important part of a prehospital provider's job description. 



You know, I wonder if boat captains get mad when people think they drive boats, even though on large boats the captain normally doesn't control the wheel.


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Ahh.. but do we call lawyers "Courtroom talkers"?



Not all lawyers talk in court.

Not all EMTs and Paramedics drives ambulances. Those that do can be called "ambulance drivers" when that is the function they are providing. It is something that is easily understood. When I worked for a critical care transportation service, my title was "Emergency Vehicle Operator". When I introduced myself to a patient, I introduced myself as the driver. That's something anyone can understand. What does "EVO" or "Emergency Vehicle Operator" mean to someone outside of the EMS world? Lots of people are intelligent enough to grasp the concept without further explanation, but many aren't. Some people would think that with a title like that, why am I up in their hospital room with the paramedic and nurse that I brought; shouldn't I be outside, operating on my emergency vehicle? Or performing emergency operations on my vehicle?

By the way...I also prefer the terms "secretary" and "steward/stewardess", too.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

medic417 said:


> An emt-b?



What if it was a paramedic driving?


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## Aerin-Sol (Dec 11, 2010)

It is relevant to the story that the person who went to the restroom was the ambulance driver. It makes it immediately clear that it was not the person providing patient care. 

It's interesting that most of the comments to the story are on the side of the crew, not the patient. I was not expecting that.


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

Aerin-Sol said:


> It's interesting that most of the comments to the story are on the side of the crew, not the patient. I was not expecting that.



It seems that the patient's condition wasn't serious, since he wasn't intubated. On the other hand, if the ambulance driver had shat his pants and continued driving, the odor may have made breathing worse for the patient.


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## medic417 (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> What if it was a paramedic driving?



Yes in dual Paramedic systems but then they really would be MICU drivers.  Now if they are driving and have a basic partner then they should be called taxi driver as there is no real need for an ambulance.


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## Aerin-Sol (Dec 11, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> It seems that the patient's condition wasn't serious, since he wasn't intubated. On the other hand, if the ambulance driver had shat his pants and continued driving, the odor may have made breathing worse for the patient.



Yes, I and most other people on the board know this, but I just didn't expect the general public to agree!


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## Shishkabob (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> A police officer isn't going to chafe at being called a police officer regardless of whether the officer is just an officer, is a detective, or some other rank. The chief of police is a police officer.



Ah, but call a trooper or a deputy a police officer or any variation thereof and they'll correct you... much the same way a medic will if you call them an EMT.  Heck, call a Marine a soldier, and they'll correct you there too.

It's not wrong to want people to call you by your proper title, even if the average person cannot distinguish you from someone else in your related field right off the bat.



Calling a medic an EMT or an EMT a medic is just a mistake of levels, not that big of a deal.  Calling someone an ambulance driver is a mistake of existence.   I don't call a cashier a "button pushing money taker" or a janitor (or floor technician) a "mop mover" etc etc.  You don't label the person by a single task that they do in their job.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

medic417 said:


> Yes in dual Paramedic systems but then they really would be MICU drivers.  Now if they are driving and have a basic partner then they should be called taxi driver as there is no real need for an ambulance.



MICUs are not ambulances?

Only acutely ill patients need an ambulance?


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Ah, but call a trooper or a deputy a police officer or any variation thereof and they'll correct you... much the same way a medic will if you call them an EMT.  Heck, call a Marine a soldier, and they'll correct you there too.



So troopers and deputies are no longer "law enforcement officers?" They're "law enforcement troopers" and "law enforcement deputies" now? Sure, there are some that are going to get uppity, just like there are the "ZOMG, I'm a PARAMEDIC not an EMT" or "ZOMG, I'm an EMT, not a PARAMEDIC" EMS providers out there, but I seriously have a hard time believing that the average high way patrol officer or sheriffs deputy cares what the average person calls them during limited interactions. There comes a time when arguing about titles becomes pretentious. What would you say if I insisted on being called a "student doctor" instead of a "medical student?" After all, "student doctor" is the proper title for what I'm currently am, even if I find it extremely pretentious. 



> It's not wrong to want people to call you by your proper title, even if the average person cannot distinguish you from someone else in your related field right off the bat.


It is wrong when you expect 100% accuracy in title in a field with multiple titles. I'd be more sympathetic if there was a single unified title, but there isn't and there's too much division and too much, "Mine, not yours, you can't have" in EMS in the USA for that to happen currently. I'm more sympathetic, for example, for providers in Canada where every provider in most provinces is a paramedic, be them a primary care paramedic, advanced care paramedic, or critical care paramedic. That's a harsh contrast to the US where you have EMT-1, EMT-2, EMT-3, Advanced EMT, EMT, EMT-B, paramedic, mobile intensive care paramedic, paramedic specialist, EMT-paramedic, licensed paramedic, EMT-Airway, and the list goes on, and on, and on. 





> Calling a medic an EMT or an EMT a medic is just a mistake of levels, not that big of a deal.  Calling someone an ambulance driver is a mistake of existence.   I don't call a cashier a "button pushing money taker" or a janitor (or floor technician) a "mop mover" etc etc.  You don't label the person by a single task that they do in their job.


So fire department engineers need to be called something else then, because only a part of their job is being an engineer? Field training officers need a new name since field training is only one task? Additionally, when I'm describing a person doing a specific job as a part of a team, that job because a rather important title, especially when there's a vast difference in immediate priorities between the ambulance driver and the patient attendant, regardless of what their level of training and education is.


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## CowboyMedic (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> MICUs are not ambulances?
> 
> Only acutely ill patients need an ambulance?



I wish that was true. 

I call med students Baby Docs. I think it suits them and smacks them off their high horse once in awhile especially when they walk in and ask me to give a report a second time cause they werent included in it. 

Hell you refer to me as a paramedic fetus and I would just smile and nod my head at this point.


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## Frozennoodle (Dec 11, 2010)

Just a fun fact:  Where I work we have a lot of auxiliary personnel that work out the same building like mechanics, dispatchers, office staff, van drivers, etc.  No matter the provider level, the rest of the company calls us all medics.


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

CowboyMedic said:


> I wish that was true.
> 
> I call med students Baby Docs. I think it suits them and smacks them off their high horse once in awhile especially when they walk in and ask me to give a report a second time cause they werent included in it.
> 
> Hell you refer to me as a paramedic fetus and I would just smile and nod my head at this point.



If I was a med student and you called me a "baby doc", I would tell you that I am not a doctor for babies.

Just remember...How you interact with med students now is going to have a direct effect on how they interact with EMTs and Paramedics for years after they become functioning doctors. Remember that.


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## JPINFV (Dec 11, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> If I was a med student and you called me a "baby doc", I would tell you that I am not a doctor for babies.
> 
> Just remember...How you interact with med students now is going to have a direct effect on how they interact with EMTs and Paramedics for years after they become functioning doctors. Remember that.



I think it's one of those things where context, non-verbal cues, and the attitudes involved make a huge difference. If someone, especially if it was someone I knew from EMS, jokingly called me a "baby doc," I'd probably laugh. I'm not in medical school for the title or social standing, just like I wasn't working as an EMT for the title or social standing, so it's not something I'm overly concerned. When it comes to comments like that, a response with a shrug is going to make more friends than a stern, "That's "student doctor" to you." Personally, you can call me a turd provided preceptors and staff answer my questions, assist me where I need it, an implement my *cosigned* orders. Real respect is provided by action, not a title.


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> I think it's one of those things where context, non-verbal cues, and the attitudes involved make a huge difference. If someone, especially if it was someone I knew from EMS, jokingly called me a "baby doc," I'd probably laugh. I'm not in medical school for the title or social standing, just like I wasn't working as an EMT for the title or social standing, so it's not something I'm overly concerned. When it comes to comments like that, a response with a shrug is going to make more friends than a stern, "That's "student doctor" to you." Personally, you can call me a turd provided preceptors and staff answer my questions, assist me where I need it, an implement my *cosigned* orders. Real respect is provided by action, not a title.



That's true, it can depend on the context. I was interpreting it from the context of someone who is looking to "[smack] them off their high horse once in awhile", especially when he's frustrated at having to repeat himself to help a student learn something. All I'm saying is I tend to reward a smart-*** with some smart-assery of my own.

That bit aside, I stand by my final sentiment you quoted.


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## Shishkabob (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm too tired to answer the rest so I'll do it later, BUT



JPINFV said:


> So fire department engineers need to be called something else then, because only a part of their job is being an engineer? Field training officers need a new name since field training is only one task?



Engineer is an official title.  FTO is an official title.  

"Police car driver" is not.


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## JJR512 (Dec 11, 2010)

Linuss said:


> I'm too tired to answer the rest so I'll do it later, BUT
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's an "official title"?

One state agency can give me a test and if I pass, they license me to provide emergency medical services. Another state agency can give me a different test, and if I pass that one, they license me to drive a vehicle. It sounds like "Driver" is just as official a title for me as "EMT".


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## CowboyMedic (Dec 12, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> If I was a med student and you called me a "baby doc", I would tell you that I am not a doctor for babies.
> 
> Just remember...How you interact with med students now is going to have a direct effect on how they interact with EMTs and Paramedics for years after they become functioning doctors. Remember that.



Suck the fun out of things by looking at them literally do you? Yes you do.:glare:

It is the context. FYI all the BABY DOCs around here wear baby blue scrubs hence baby doc. they are color coded! - policy so nobody reports to them or gives them patient care and walks off. Apparently it is also easier for their proctor to keep track of them. Like children on a field trip all wearing the same bright colored tshirt that says if found please call 555-5555.

And yeah I know Im a **** and I could scar them but Ive only been a **** to them once and thats cause I was standing in blood squeezing a bleeding brachial artery cause one of them had to take my tourniquet off to see what it does.




Linuss said:


> I'm too tired to answer the rest so I'll do it later, BUT
> 
> Engineer is an official title.  FTO is an official title.
> 
> "Police car driver" is not.



I have an official Dallas Ambulance Drivers Permit. So I guess that makes me an official ambulance driver!


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## JPINFV (Dec 12, 2010)

CowboyMedic said:


> And yeah I know Im a **** and I could scar them but Ive only been a **** to them once and thats cause I was standing in blood squeezing a bleeding brachial artery cause one of them had to take my tourniquet off to see what it does.


On the bright side, at least I now know not to do that... sorry about the uniform shirt though. 




> I have an official Dallas Ambulance Drivers Permit. So I guess that makes me an official ambulance driver!


I used to hold the infamous California Ambulance Driver certificate.


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## firemedic07 (Dec 12, 2010)

just tell em Medic from now on lol


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## EMT11KDL (Dec 12, 2010)

just read the story. i have mixed feeling on it.  do i agree with the drivers choice.  yes and no.  i do understand why, and i know if i was in that spot i might have stopped also.  but with that being said, i would have checked with the person in the back to make sure the patient was stable enough for the short delay in transport and that the patient was informed.


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## slb862 (Dec 12, 2010)

I am A "Professional Ambulance Driver"


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## MrBrown (Dec 12, 2010)

Each ambulance here is crewed by two Ambulance Officers; thier patch might say Emergency Medical Technician, Paramedic or Intensive Care Paramedic but they are still an Ambulance Officer.

The AO who makes the wheels on the ambulance go round and round is called gasp, the driver.

Brown thinks its high time we just called everybody some degree of "Paramedic" but alas, not going to happen.

You guys think you had it bad, in the late eighties here a volunteer Ambulance Officers offical title was "Honourary Assistant"


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## b2dragun (Dec 12, 2010)

anestheticmedic said:


> What's an ambulance driver?



I actually prefer the term taxi driver, more often then not it is appropriate.  The only real difference is the taxi gets paid for the ride close to 100% of the time.

And before someone calls me out I am joking...kinda.


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## firecoins (Dec 12, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Ahh.. but do we call lawyers "Courtroom talkers"?



yes my courtroom talker took a break to become a toilet paper wiper.

I am not an ambulance driver. I sit in the driver seat and if the ambulance goes out of control, I control it.  I am an ambulance controller.


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## medic417 (Dec 12, 2010)

firecoins said:


> I sit in the driver seat and if the ambulance goes out of control, I control it.  I am an ambulance controller.



I thought you were a helicopter rider?


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## MrBrown (Dec 12, 2010)

medic417 said:


> I thought you were a helicopter rider?



Brown knows how to make the helicopter go up and down and the blades round and round .... wheeeeeeeeee!


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