# Drive Cams!



## EMTSteve

We have a Drive Cam located just above our rear-view mirror that has one lens that faces the drivers’ cabin and another lens that faces out towards the front of the vehicle.

We are told that it automatically switches on during HARD breaking, a sudden stop or when the Code 3 lights are on.
Or we can hit a button located on the Cam to record a drunk driver or ourselves when we roll up on scene.
It can also be switched on by a supervisor remotely from his/her desktop computer.

I know of one incident when an EMT was power-breaking the rig (foot on the break and a foot on the gas making it burn out) on top of that he didn’t have his seat belt on.
Needless to say he was canned on the spot and his ADL was revoked.

Just wanted to know; do any of you have Drive-Cams in your rigs? 
And when the little light on it starts flashing… what fun things do you say?
(i.e. things I have said...) 
“Man I sure LOVE working for (your company here), it’s the best company EVER, I plan on working here until I retire”
Or “(Supervisor name here), is the BEST supervisor EVER, he/she has taught me so much”.


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## daedalus

We make smart a$$ comments and pretend to have conversations with our operations manager when the cam goes off, because she reviews all of the incidents. They lied to you about the camera activating during code three driving. Drive cams are incapable of this, and also only record 40 second incidents.


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## reaper

They cannot be remotely turned on. They are a closed system, that works off an inertia switch. Brake hard, turn sharp, accelerate to fast, sudden impact or sudden stop is what sets if off. They record 20 seconds prior to set off and 20 seconds after. They are great for accidents and reckless drivers. If it has been set off the light will be red. If you see the light blinking red, then smile, you just set it off.

I think every ambulance should have them installed. They saved a few lawsuits in the past from proving who was at fault!


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## motownems

I Completly agree with reaper, in regards to every ambulance/emergency vehicle should have them.  I have heard of dashboard cameras saving more than a few policeman from lawsuits and such.


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## reaper

Well, You need to understand that drivecam is not a dash camera. It does not record all the time, just when it is set off.


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## firecoins

We have them and everyone should.


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## mikie

reaper said:


> They cannot be remotely turned on. They are a closed system, that works off an inertia switch. Brake hard, turn sharp, accelerate to fast, sudden impact or sudden stop is what sets if off. They record 20 seconds prior to set off and 20 seconds after.



A- If it's closed, how does one obtain the video?  Is there somesort of media (ie SD, CompactFlash) slot on the camera or USB connection?

B- How would they record 20 prior to being set off (ie by a sharp turn) if it just occurred?


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## LucidResq

mikie said:


> B- How would they record 20 prior to being set off (ie by a sharp turn) if it just occurred?



I'm guessing it works like a cardiac event monitor. It is constantly keeping clips of a certain number of seconds temporarily recorded, and moves them to permanent storage after triggered.


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## reaper

Yes, They have a usb connection to download to a pc.

They record 30 seconds at a time. When it is set off, it sends the last 20 seconds to the hard drive and also the next 20 seconds to hard drive.


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## marineman

We have them and it has saved the company in 2 accidents that occurred while running L&S. It was a joke for a while that it would automatically go off any time you started talking bad about the operations manager (he reviews them) so now anytime we see them go off we start a conversation about how much we can't stand him. 

The only problem with them is that the driveways to a few of our hospitals are so steep that it gets set off even if you pull in very gently. I like having them, if you drive within the limits and are safe there's no way a drive cam can get you in trouble but it can save you. Now if we are running L&S and another vehicle fails to yield or does something stupid we can hit the button to record, then send the video to the PD and the driver gets mailed a ticket. Also at special events it's a nice way to keep the memories. We have about 30 minutes of video from airforce 1 landing, president Bush getting off, driving at incredibly unsafe speeds down city streets in the motorcade, part of his speech, drive back to the airport, and airforce 1 departing. In that video it's funny if you watch the inside camera you can see the SS guy in the back reach for his gun every time they hit the button on the camera.


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## pa3997

*Drive Cam policy.*

Here is a question.  Does anyone have a written policy in place defining what exectly the drive cam can be used for?  We all know that things are said in the privacy of the ambulance which are not meant for other's ears.  Obviously, if someone would be driving recklessly or breaking some sort of law, discipline would be warranted.  But coming from a union shop, and being Shop Steward, I have concerns about this.


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## JPINFV

Considering that the ambulance is a mobile workplace, why would anything said on an ambulance be considered private? Shouldn't the same level of privacy be expected if it was any other worksite?


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## pa3997

Just asking if anyone else has a policy.  Not interested in a back and forth of opinions.


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## JPINFV

No problem. Just confirming that unions are more concerned with demonizing management with fake concerns over 'privacy' than anything else.


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## pa3997

You certainly are entitled to your opinion.  Even if it is wrong.


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## JPINFV

How is it wrong?


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## pa3997

Speaking in generalities of what unions are interested in doing to management is wrong.  

My shop has a very good working relationship with management and we are both in agreement that a policy should be implemented.  And also that the drive cam is a very good idea.

Are there cameras in every corner of a "workplace"?  

Have you spent much time in an ambulance with a partner that you see more often than your family?  If you have, then you may have shared personal information with him or her.


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## reaper

We didn't have a policy on it. We only had one time a driver was disciplined for what was said on the video. The driver was cut off in traffic. He rolled his window down and starting yelling some very vulgar language at the driver. He was fired, as soon as the video was downloaded. As he should have been.

The only ones allowed to see the video are the supervisor and the crew involved.

A good service does not care what the crews are talking about in private. That is their right to say what they want. That is why the good services do not need unions to protect them from management.


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## tydek07

So those of you that work for services that have the Drive Cams... Do they also incorporate RoadSafe, or do they feel the Cams are enough?

We have RoadSafe here, there has been talk about getting the Cams, but nothing has come of it yet.

tydek


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## reaper

I prefer the drive cam. It is video proof. Not some machine clicking off, when something goes wrong. With the drive cam, you can see what you did wrong.


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## marineman

drive cam only.


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## pa3997

It's a real shame that people think union's are in place to "protect" from manangment.  It must only be a coincidence that I work for the highest paid service with the best benefits, with the least amount of employee turnover in most of western PA.


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## JPINFV

If you don't need protection from management, why have unions in the first place?


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## ffemt8978

Stay on topic...if you want to talk about EMS unions, start your own thread.


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## gicts

they have their pluses and minuses. I like the fact they can also be manually activated within the cab. For example we caught a hit and run in front of us.


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## exodus

We have road safety, GPS, and drive cams on our rigs...


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## JPINFV

At my old company we had one unit that had one (side note: unit was also a mod, old, and the only Horton brand ambulance which could also contribute to the lack of use by most providers) as a test and it was in better condition than some of the units half her age. As a provider and not management, I say deploy it in half the fleet. The morons can sit there and screw around and destroy the units without drive cams and leave the drive cam units to us professionals.


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## tydek07

We have the RoadSafe in every truck, management can always be watching us. We have GPS and everything. From their computer, they can see where we are, how fast we are going, are we using lights and siren, etc etc.... they know our every move:unsure: haha

We had an incident last fall and the RoadSafe saved the drivers butt. Management could see how fast he was going, when and how much break he applied, where the stearing wheel was, list goes on and on.... and not just during the incident, but for the entire trip. They studied it, and found that he did all that he could. They saw that he took it off cruise, reduced speed, when he first noticed road conditions getting bad.

I think the Cams would be nice to have... so you not only read what happened, but to see it too.


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## paemt08

We have drive cams in all our trucks which record for ten seconds when set off and the previous ten seconds before the incident. Can either work for or against you.


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## petekf4qoe

We have drive cams here in our ambulances and they are wi-fi enabled. If the camera is set off it stores what it recorded until we pull up near the station. It will then wireless upload the video from the camera and send it to the supervisor. It then resets itself. This only take a few seconds. We have 2 antennas mounted on the back of the station. Our old cameras had the usb port where it had to be plug into a computer and downloaded that way.


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## resq330

1. Can someone provide links of the cams used in your trucks?

2. Can someone provide a link for RoadSafe?

edit: It looks like its actually called Road Safety.  I guess this is it.  http://www.roadsafety.com/emergency.php

3. Does anyone have cameras located in the back of units that can manually be turned on for the safety of the EMT?


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## redcrossemt

www.drivecam.com

I am a supervisor who routinely watches DriveCam and who's butt has been saved by having the Drive Cam recording. We've also documented road-side assaults, hit and runs, psychiatric patients attacking our attendant, etc. I can tell you that we also discipline based on videos - especially for dangerous traffic violations and failure to wear seat belts - and it greatly increases safe driving and compliance with seat belt use.

As far as privacy, yes our supervisors see all of the tapes, but we delete them if they are of no value as far as above. I don't really care about the personal lives and discussions had on tape unless you are talking about homicide, suicide, a clinical error, etc.

We can correlate DriveCam to our MDT data including GPS, vehicle speed, etc. but do not have Road Safety units.

The DriveCams are programmable to whatever your service wants as far as G-forces required to activate, recording time, etc. Ours records for 15 seconds - 7.5 before and after. They work as described above by having a constantly "rolling" tape. Our automatically sync via WiFi when pulling into the station, but you can also manually pull the "tapes" via USB connection.

Road Safety is a great device for safe driving "reminders" and enforcement. However, it won't document who's at fault in an accident or incident like DriveCam will.

Any questions about it, you can PM me or post here.


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## MusicMedic

reaper said:


> Well, You need to understand that drivecam is not a dash camera. It does not record all the time, just when it is set off.



just a correction: DashCams on Police Vehicles are turned on whenever they turn on their Lights (code 3). it records to a DVD recorder in the back of the vehicle. The Officer is also Hooked up with microphones so the sound turns on as well. (thats why in police shows you hear them soo well) 


Anyways the service i did my ridealong with had DriveCams, and they would turn on every time we went over a speedbump to a bumpy road. they are usefull though for insurance purposes im sure


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## FLEMTP

MusicMedic said:


> they are usefull though for insurance purposes im sure



This is the main reason why most EMS agencies are beginning to use drive cams and road safety and other similar devices.. its all about the almighty dollar. 

I work for a County EMS Dept, and I dont see us getting these anytime soon. Everything recorded on the drive cams would in turn become public record.. and be very easy to obtain thru a FOIA request by the local media. Can you imagine if you're running code three and you make an offhanded comment about a driver being a "F***ING moron" and the news media got ahold of that?

Works for some agencies im sure, but I think it would not be a smart investment for my agency.

Of course, I need to add a disclaimer that my thoughts and comments do not, by any stretch of the imagination, represent the thoughts and opinions of the Administration of my agency.


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## reaper

FLEMTP said:


> This is the main reason why most EMS agencies are beginning to use drive cams and road safety and other similar devices.. its all about the almighty dollar.
> 
> I work for a County EMS Dept, and I dont see us getting these anytime soon. Everything recorded on the drive cams would in turn become public record.. and be very easy to obtain thru a FOIA request by the local media. Can you imagine if you're running code three and you make an offhanded comment about a driver being a "F***ING moron" and the news media got ahold of that?
> 
> Works for some agencies im sure, but I think it would not be a smart investment for my agency.
> 
> Of course, I need to add a disclaimer that my thoughts and comments do not, by any stretch of the imagination, represent the thoughts and opinions of the Administration of my agency.




We had them, at a county agency in FL. Not everything that is recorded is kept. Only reckless driving or accidents are stored for later use. All others are deleted.

County agencies are the biggest one that need them. They will save your agency from lawsuits that would otherwise be hard to prove. We had 4 of them thrown out before even reaching trial, just because we had video evidence of what happened. That paid for the Drive cams in full!

I think every county agency should have them. They also bring your emloyees inline with their driving. The BS driving stops, which cuts your maintainace costs.


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## FLEMTP

reaper said:


> We had them, at a county agency in FL. Not everything that is recorded is kept. Only reckless driving or accidents are stored for later use. All others are deleted.
> 
> County agencies are the biggest one that need them. They will save your agency from lawsuits that would otherwise be hard to prove. We had 4 of them thrown out before even reaching trial, just because we had video evidence of what happened. That paid for the Drive cams in full!
> 
> I think every county agency should have them. They also bring your emloyees inline with their driving. The BS driving stops, which cuts your maintainace costs.



Which county agency did you work at? you can PM me if you're prefer.. im curious to know how that worked out for them. Drivecams also wouldnt really save us any money in the long run, because IIRC our county is self insured.


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## reaper

I worked for Leon County (Tallahassee). The drive cams worked great for us. Maintainance costs lowered. We to were self insured. It still saved tons of money.

Case in point. 

Had an ambulance hit head on, on a two lane road. They were transporting routine and at speed limit. Driver crossed into their lane on a curve and hit them, with no time to respond. Drive cam showed them in the curve and the car came out of no where. DRivers reaction was "oh    ", no time to finish his phrase.

Other driver tried to sue. Stated that ambulance was speeding and had L/S on and crossed lanes. Drive cam showed ambulance at 30 mph, no L/S and driver with both hands on wheel. He never crossed the line. Cam showed other driver come around corner in their lane at a high rate of speed.

County lawyer walked in to the deposition, slapped a copy of tape on table and walked out. The suit was dropped next day and she had to pay 100k for a totaled ambulance.
Lucky the pt or medics were not injured.

That is one of four cases that the camera has saved them from any suit. Several other times were where the crews have used them to record other accidents or altercations. They are well worth the money and I think every county should run them.

The black boxes on the other hand, should be outlawed. they do nothing but cause problems and headachs.


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## WolfmanHarris

reaper said:


> The black boxes on the other hand, should be outlawed. they do nothing but cause problems and headaches.



Umm... care to elaborate? 

We already have blackboxes and are now introducing active driver feedback systems that will also track driver performance. I have my concerns with these but I'm interested to see how they'll be utilized.


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## FLEMTP

reaper said:


> I worked for Leon County (Tallahassee). The drive cams worked great for us. Maintainance costs lowered. We to were self insured. It still saved tons of money.
> 
> Case in point.
> 
> Had an ambulance hit head on, on a two lane road. They were transporting routine and at speed limit. Driver crossed into their lane on a curve and hit them, with no time to respond. Drive cam showed them in the curve and the car came out of no where. DRivers reaction was "oh    ", no time to finish his phrase.
> 
> Other driver tried to sue. Stated that ambulance was speeding and had L/S on and crossed lanes. Drive cam showed ambulance at 30 mph, no L/S and driver with both hands on wheel. He never crossed the line. Cam showed other driver come around corner in their lane at a high rate of speed.
> 
> County lawyer walked in to the deposition, slapped a copy of tape on table and walked out. The suit was dropped next day and she had to pay 100k for a totaled ambulance.
> Lucky the pt or medics were not injured.
> 
> That is one of four cases that the camera has saved them from any suit. Several other times were where the crews have used them to record other accidents or altercations. They are well worth the money and I think every county should run them.
> 
> The black boxes on the other hand, should be outlawed. they do nothing but cause problems and headachs.



I can see your point. I appreciate the insight. I will bring the idea of a drivecam up to our adminstration and cite Leon County as a county ran EMS agency that did benefit from them. 

Our agency is big on assessing how tools like the drive cam or various different types of software (ePCR, CAD, logistical, etc) has worked in other areas prior to implementing them with our agency.

If it can safe money in the long term or the short term for that matter, I'm sure its worth looking at!

Thank you again!


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## spike91

I ride for a collegiate ALS 24/7 agency in New York. Fortunately we've never been the lucky winners of any legal issues that I know of to date, and we don't run any cameras/monitoring systems. The few vehicle incidents we've had were relatively minor, wheel vs. curb (the curbs are sharp and granite, you touch one and POP), back bumper vs a tree at like 2mph, etc. 

For a large county or city, agency, I'd actually HOPE they had the cameras assuming they were used for the right reasons, not for babysitting the crew.


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## DrParasite

You know, as much as I hate to say this, if you are doing the job, following the rules, and not doing something you shouldn't be doing, then you should have no problems with a drive cam.

That might mean no more speeding on the open interstates, no more blowing through red lights, no more talking on cell phone while driving, no more shouting at people on the PA when they don't yield, no more taking that turn "a little too fast", no more using L&S to get the hospital with the minor BS patient because you want to get them out of your truck, or any other thing that we do that if a supervisor saw us, he or she would not approve.

All a drive cam does is hold you accountable for your own actions.  And while I have broken a few rules in my time, because I didn't have a camera recording my every move, I got to say, if you don't want to get in trouble, just don't break the rules.


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## MonkeySquasher

DrParasite said:


> You know, as much as I hate to say this, if you are doing the job, following the rules, and not doing something you shouldn't be doing, then you should have no problems with a drive cam.
> 
> All a drive cam does is hold you accountable for your own actions.  And while I have broken a few rules in my time, because I didn't have a camera recording my every move, I got to say, if you don't want to get in trouble, just don't break the rules.



^ This, +1.

My volunteer company could maybe benefit from them, mostly on insurance costs.  People drive safely as it is, but maybe they'd wear their seatbelt more often and use lights/sirens less often...

Unfortunately, at my paid Company, they ARE used to babysit us.  Some policies I agree with...  seatbelts, as required by NYS V&T.  No smoking while driving, good idea..  It IS an ambulance.  However, you can be repremanded for ANYTHING.  If it goes off as you're backing with a backer, write up.  Traveling lights without siren, write up.  Speaking bad about the company, write up.  They took it a step further... We -ACTUALLY- have a policy that says we can't sleep while driving.  I often worry that if it goes off and I sneeze while driving, I'll be written up!

On the funnier side, I once accidentally set it off on railroad tracks while my partner talked about him, -ahem-...  'wishing to perform anal pleasures on another female coworker'. The video got leaked, and he STILL hasn't lived it down.  Oops!


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## reaper

Time for a new job!


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