# Being an EMT-B and CNA?



## SunshineCamo (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry if this topic has been done before.  I tried searching but didn't get any results.

Anyways, I've got my EMT-B right now but I'm still having trouble finding work.  I had a chance to talk to an HR manager for a local hospital who recommend I get certified as a CNA.  She said the CNAs get much more in depth training than EMTs and are more marketable.

I've heard that really EMT-Bs and CNAs are very similar, so it just seems kinda silly to get another certification for the same level of practice.  Is there any logic to this route, or should I just keep toughing it out until I find something?


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## Kevinf (Oct 26, 2013)

If you are going to do ANY nursing in a hospital or ECF setting I'd strongly recommend going all the way to RN. Any of the "lesser" nursing certs will not get you much other than being a scut rat / glorified secretary. And you get to make a decent living wage too...


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## Mariemt (Oct 26, 2013)

CNAS and EMTs do not have similar training and will need totally different clinical experiences.  I would gather the only thing the same would be CPR. 

Both jobs are important to healthcare, but both have totally different ideas. A CNA will will do a lot more comfort care in hospital and long term health care settings such as feeding, bathing, dressing etc. 
EMTs do more emergency per hospital care such as spinal immobilization, monitoring and trending ASA and nitro with leads. CPR etc.


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## CFal (Oct 26, 2013)

CNA's wipe ***, literally


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## 9D4 (Oct 26, 2013)

CFal said:


> CNA's wipe ***, literally


In the words of my EMT instructor "All those CNAs do is clean nuts and ***". 
Of course, he might've been a bit biased, haha.


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## ITBITB13 (Oct 26, 2013)

9D4 said:


> In the words of my EMT instructor "All those CNAs do is clean nuts and ***".
> Of course, he might've been a bit biased, haha.



C.N.A. = Clean Nuts and ***
Hahahahaha haven't heard that one before.

However, while working as a tech for kaiser, I can tell you that they don't hire CNAs or LVNs in their hospitals, only in their clinics. So RNs will be wiping nuts and *** all over the hospital. Good thing techs aren't "trained" in that..:lol:


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## joshrunkle35 (Oct 27, 2013)

I took a CNA course (called STNA in my state) and an advanced CNA skills course between Basic and Medic. CNA is kind of pointless for an EMT. It's a class on basic medical health, all of the things you will learn in EMT. It spent a tiny bit more time on geriatric patients, and I did learn a few things there that I did not know, but that could be accomplished by taking a GEMS class. 

The skills portion of CNA is pretty much developed for stupid people. Picture the practical tests from EMT, but one actually on how to pour a glass of water. 

Hands on time was literally spent shaving, feeding and wiping people. Over and over and over and over. 

The advanced CNA course was very helpful: 12 leads, etc, but the basic CNA course was awful.

One story from CNA clinicals: before peri-care (wiping asses and nuts, etc) the teacher asked if everyone had extra gloves in their pockets in case the gloves in the rooms are the wrong size. The only girl taking notes at this time out of 40 people says, "Oh, do we have to wear gloves?" To which the teacher replies, "Don't you want to?" To which she replies, "I'm just asking if I have to." To which the teacher has like a 30 second awkward pause (trying not to call the girl something stupid) and just states at her and says, "Yes, you have to wear gloves." ...the girl goes, ok, and then wrote it down! EMT's that pass EMT school are usually pretty smart, pretty cool people. The CNA's that were all in my class were the type of people that McDonalds would not hire.


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## VFlutter (Oct 27, 2013)

Ivan_13 said:


> C.N.A. = Clean Nuts and ***
> Hahahahaha haven't heard that one before.
> 
> However, while working as a tech for kaiser, I can tell you that they don't hire CNAs or LVNs in their hospitals, only in their clinics. So RNs will be wiping nuts and *** all over the hospital. Good thing techs aren't "trained" in that..:lol:



Our techs, who are not CNAs, certainly clean up patients. 

And CNAs do more than just clean up patients. 

Just curious, what do you guys do when your patient is incontinent? Drop them off and walk out?


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## ITBITB13 (Oct 28, 2013)

Chase said:


> Our techs, who are not CNAs, certainly clean up patients.
> 
> Just curious, what do you guys do when your patient is incontinent? Drop them off and walk out?




Well that sucks. Sometimes we may "assist" the RN in cleaning, but that just usually consists of grabbing supplies, and holding the patient on his/her side as the RN does the work.

And yeah, that's about it. We usually tell them to try and hold it when they can, and if not, we try and supply the with a urinal/bedpan. If we're holding the wall, we can't just go ahead and wipe for them. It's not our job, and I don't think its in our scope of practice.


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## STXmedic (Oct 28, 2013)

Ivan_13 said:


> I don't think its in our scope of practice.



:blink:


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## VFlutter (Oct 28, 2013)

Ivan_13 said:


> If we're holding the wall, we can't just go ahead and wipe for them. It's not our job, and I don't think its in our scope of practice.



How is patient care not part of your job? Maybe this is why people think EMTs are only Ambulance Drivers.


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## Carlos Danger (Oct 28, 2013)

Chase said:


> How is patient care not part of your job? Maybe this is why people think EMTs are only Ambulance Drivers.



Don't you know EMT's and paramedics only do cool stuff?


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## unleashedfury (Oct 28, 2013)

SunshineCamo said:


> Sorry if this topic has been done before.  I tried searching but didn't get any results.
> 
> Anyways, I've got my EMT-B right now but I'm still having trouble finding work.  I had a chance to talk to an HR manager for a local hospital who recommend I get certified as a CNA.  She said the CNAs get much more in depth training than EMTs and are more marketable.
> 
> I've heard that really EMT-Bs and CNAs are very similar, so it just seems kinda silly to get another certification for the same level of practice.  Is there any logic to this route, or should I just keep toughing it out until I find something?



The only thing that EMT-B and CNA have in common is that they are pretty much the entry level positions in the particular profession of the healthcare field. EMT-B for Prehospital. CNA for Hospital or Extended care facilities. Skilled Nursing Homes or Home Health Care

CNA's have a different scope of practice. CNA's generally provide comfort measures for patients. Clean and change incontinent patients. Assist in feeding patients. May perform vitals based on the facility. Perform daily needs that one cannot perform for him/herself. (dressing, shaving, assist with teeth or dentures to be cleaned) 

If you need a job and a CNA course is offered and you want to give it a try, its a fairly short course about 3 weeks IIRC and the pay is about on par with EMTs Between 10 - 12 per Hour. However in my area SNF's are always short CNA's and if you like Overtime its of the pleather.


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## VFlutter (Oct 28, 2013)

Halothane said:


> Don't you know EMT's and paramedics only do cool stuff?



Everyone wants to jump in line to intubate and run pressors on the severe septic patient who's septicemia was caused by a decubitus ulcer from sitting in stool/urine but no one wants to clean up the patient and prevent all that in the first place :angry:


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## Carlos Danger (Oct 28, 2013)

Chase said:


> Everyone wants to jump in line to intubate and run pressors on the severe septic patient who's septicemia was caused by a decubitus ulcer from sitting in stool/urine but *no one wants to clean up the patient and prevent all that in the first place* :angry:



Rescue Paramedic aint got time fo dat.


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## Tigger (Oct 28, 2013)

Ivan_13 said:


> Well that sucks. Sometimes we may "assist" the RN in cleaning, but that just usually consists of grabbing supplies, and holding the patient on his/her side as the RN does the work.
> 
> And yeah, that's about it. We usually tell them to try and hold it when they can, and if not, we try and supply the with a urinal/bedpan. If we're holding the wall, we can't just go ahead and wipe for them. It's not our job, and I don't think its in our scope of practice.



Actually? Do you think you need to be approved to preserve your patient's dignity? I'm not saying that I clean patients during transport because I think seatbelts take precedence, but at a facility we should all be more than willing to help.


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## ZombieEMT (Oct 29, 2013)

Out of your scope of practice? I would hope you know how to wipe *** and don't need extra training for that. As an EMT, I would no do it in a moving ambulance, but for safety reasons, that also does not mean I will allow a patient to sit in their piss and poo.

In this area, working as a tech in the hospital is not often working off of your EMT cert. Many places take EMT experience for the position, but you are almost always working of the RN license, and in that case scope of practice is not even an issue. There is illness and infection that can come from allowing a patient to remain that way. I don't see how its much different than wiping your own or your kids bottom.

Even in an EMS setting, I have done what you say is not in our scope. We have an 80 year old woman activate her life alert because she needed to use the bathroom and her CHHA did not come in until 6am. We showed up and found that she was unable to hold it and had already urinated in her bed. It being 3am, do you think that I just said "Well, its out of my scope of practice. You need to wait until 6am." No, I helped change her. I would feel ashamed and neglectful to walk out of the house leaving her like that.


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