# Budget Cuts Threaten Firefighters' Jobs



## Sasha (Apr 30, 2009)

*Budget Cuts Threaten Firefighters' Jobs*
Full Article Here: http://www.wftv.com/news/19328748/detail.html


> ORLANDO, Fla. -- Nearly 10 percent of Orlando;s firefighters could soon lose their jobs.
> 
> "This fire department would be severely crippled," Union President Steve Clelland said.
> 
> ...



I know BLSBoy will find this particularly upsetting. Orlando FD is a huge department, but it is also a non-transporting FD with one of the few private services (Rural Metro) doing the transporting. Often running a call in Orlando you'll arrive to find them standing around "Uhhh, you need us?". So I don't think this budget cut may be as detrimental as the news is trying to make it seem.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm never for someone losing their job, but will taking 1 or 2 FF's per station away really effect much?


Is Orlando ALS or BLS?



EDITY-- Search showed mixed.


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## Sasha (Apr 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I'm never for someone losing their job, but will taking 1 or 2 FF's per station away really effect much?
> 
> 
> Is Orlando ALS or BLS?
> ...




ALS. The only companies that have BLS responses in the area are IFT.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> ALS. The only companies that have BLS responses in the area are IFT.



They said their bike patrols were Medic/Basic teams?


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## Sasha (Apr 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> They said their bike patrols were Medic/Basic teams?



it's still considered ALS as you have an ALS provider responding. Most places are Medic/Basic. And honestly I've never seen their bike team, the last time I saw any event that had OFD present was a walkathon, and they were just following the walkers around with an engine and rescue. (But there was also a ton of police and some special response vehicle, I think it was more of a parade type thing behind the walkathon. They all had their lights flashing)


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## Shishkabob (Apr 30, 2009)

Ah, I meant were they full paramedic department such as Dallas FD where everyone is an FF/Paramedic.  My bad.


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## CAOX3 (Apr 30, 2009)

Linuss said:


> I'm never for someone losing their job, but will taking 1 or 2 FF's per station away really effect much?
> 
> 
> Is Orlando ALS or BLS?
> ...



Yeah one here, one there, the next thing you know one guys shows up when your house is on fire.  No thanks Ill take the property tax increase.


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## boingo (Apr 30, 2009)

Or they can do what every other fire department does when the budget axe falls, claim they can do EMS themselves, get rid of the EMS agency and "merge" ala NYC, SFD, DCFD, etc...:unsure:


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## Sasha (Apr 30, 2009)

CAOX3 said:


> Yeah one here, one there, the next thing you know one guys shows up when your house is on fire.  No thanks Ill take the property tax increase.



Yeah, because that's totally realistic.


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## VentMedic (Apr 30, 2009)

They need to open their books to the public and let them decide where the 10% should be cut.  Just as what was done in other counties, I'm sure there'll be some fat to trim that won't involve the frontline workers.  However, they may not get the new grill, kitchen remodel or patio furniture this year.  The upper management may also have to drive an SUV that is more than a year old.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Yeah, because that's totally realistic.



For my area it is, actually.  Failures to keep up with the fire needs of the county has ment that the Fire District just next door can only staff 1 Engine with 1 FF 24/7.  The district that services me has 2 on duty 18/7.  Another district can't even keep 1 engine/rescue manned more than 5 days a week.  They all have to be augmented by volunteers (if available) or respond w/ 1 to all calls (good luck running a code for 15 minutes by yourself until the ALS Ambulance shows).  All the volunteers stations have been so beaten down by the "BOO VOLUNTEER" attitude that if they respond, they usually do so w/ 1.  If the government (my local one in particular) would just see that Emergency Services (Fire, EMS, Law, SAR) was vital to the community, then maybe the money would be there.  Problems like this were the reason that 2 people died in a house fire last year near me.  Fire was understaffed as usual and it took them 18 minutes to get on scene when the closest volunteer station was 3 minutes away and the closes "paid" station was 5 minutes away.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Apr 30, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> The upper management may also have to drive an SUV that is more than a year old.



Oh no, how will they survive?  :unsure:


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## Ridryder911 (Apr 30, 2009)

boingo said:


> Or they can do what every other fire department does when the budget axe falls, claim they can do EMS themselves, get rid of the EMS agency and "merge" ala NYC, SFD, DCFD, etc...:unsure:



Actually the opposite should be considered. I remember reading where many successful EMS services that was threatened by Fire Service; in return offered to manage Fire Service. Amazingly, an immediate dismissal of the Fire Service interest in EMS occurred. 

R/r 911


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## Sasha (Apr 30, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> For my area it is, actually.  Failures to keep up with the fire needs of the county has ment that the Fire District just next door can only staff 1 Engine with 1 FF 24/7.  The district that services me has 2 on duty 18/7.  Another district can't even keep 1 engine/rescue manned more than 5 days a week.  They all have to be augmented by volunteers (if available) or respond w/ 1 to all calls (good luck running a code for 15 minutes by yourself until the ALS Ambulance shows).  All the volunteers stations have been so beaten down by the "BOO VOLUNTEER" attitude that if they respond, they usually do so w/ 1.  If the government (my local one in particular) would just see that Emergency Services (Fire, EMS, Law, SAR) was vital to the community, then maybe the money would be there.  Problems like this were the reason that 2 people died in a house fire last year near me.  Fire was understaffed as usual and it took them 18 minutes to get on scene when the closest volunteer station was 3 minutes away and the closes "paid" station was 5 minutes away.



That's your area, which is vastly different then Orlando, a major city in Florida. Not only is their OFD but OCFD in Orlando. That's like saying firing 40+ people from FDNY will leave one person to fight a fire on a sky scraper. Not gonna happen, they're over staffed, if anything. They don't even transport, yet respond to medical calls anyway to stand around and get in the way.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> They don't even transport, yet respond to medical calls anyway to stand around and get in the way.





Psh... newbs.  I can get in the way without even being near by!


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## CAOX3 (Apr 30, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Yeah, because that's totally realistic.



In my area there were four guys in every seat when a fire truck showed up with a response time of under four minutes, now there are two.  Four fire stations are been closed with another one on the chopping block which will increase response time by over five-minutes(they are EMTs that tend to patient care until the ambulance shows up) Do I need to explain to you the ramifications of that?  Lets see in regards to survival rates of cardiac arrest patients.

We lost 50 police officers.  Thats almost three a shift.  You think the criminals dont know this?

Honey, nothings unrealistic except for your views and comments.


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## amberdt03 (May 1, 2009)

Linuss said:


> Ah, I meant were they full paramedic department such as Dallas FD where everyone is an FF/Paramedic.  My bad.



actually not all of dfd is medic. a lot of the older guys are still basics. but once they retire then they will be all medics


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## boingo (May 1, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Actually the opposite should be considered. I remember reading where many successful EMS services that was threatened by Fire Service; in return offered to manage Fire Service. Amazingly, an immediate dismissal of the Fire Service interest in EMS occurred.
> 
> R/r 911




I love it!


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## 46Young (May 7, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Yeah, because that's totally realistic.



Yeah, it is. Awendaw FD, in Charleston County SC, has only 1-2 FF's per piece, tops. I'm sure that it's similar in other rural areas of the Southeast. Staffing in a combo dept will affect both EMS ops, and the fire side, as well. Inadequate staffing poses several problems on the fireground. In the event of a mayday, it can take 11-12 firefighters to rescue just one downed member. "Two In Two Out" is the national standard when beginning an interior attack. Reducing staffing by even one FF per piece can significantly slow down fireground ops, which will increase the incidence of fatalities, and property loss. The dangers of inadequate staffing has been shown time and time again by close call reports, and firefighter fatalities. As for EMS, a reduction in force will result in cutting units to maintain safe staffing levels, be it an ambulance, or ALS engine. In Fairfax, we have 37 ALS engines, with numerous ALS units, and a few BLS units. All FF's are cross trained as medics or basics. We recently avoided 89 uniformed layoffs to include four heavy rescues, 24 medics(including myself) and four BLS units. Consider this scenario: Engine/Tower 408 respond to an alarm bell at 0800. At 0804, Ambulance 408(BLS) responds for an ankle inj. At 0808, Medic 408 responds to an arrest with E426, arriving at 0811. Now, eliminate the ambulance. E/TL 408 resp at 0800, M408 resp to ankle inj at 0804, M/E 426 resp for the arrest at 0808, to arrive at 0816, too late to save the pt. I could tweak the scenario to show how a lack of ALS suppression units could lead to a similar scenario, with units responding from second/third due since the first due engine is covering another area that lost an engine due to reductions.


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## 46Young (May 7, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> They need to open their books to the public and let them decide where the 10% should be cut.  Just as what was done in other counties, I'm sure there'll be some fat to trim that won't involve the frontline workers.  However, they may not get the new grill, kitchen remodel or patio furniture this year.  The upper management may also have to drive an SUV that is more than a year old.



Funny you should mention that. On 3/30, we had a scandal with take home vehicles. Go to fox5dc.com and search Fairfax County Audit.


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## Sasha (May 7, 2009)

Try as you may, you can't convince me that it's possible, in ORLANDO. A heavily populated, heavy tourist laden area. If we were talking Christmas or Brooksville or Osteen Florida, surely. But Orlando?? No. Cutting out a few per shift will not devestate the city's fire department.



> Yeah, it is. Awendaw FD, in Charleston County SC, has only 1-2 FF's per piece, tops. I'm sure that it's similar in *other rural areas *of the Southeast. Staffing in a combo dept will affect both EMS ops, and the fire side, as well.



While Orlando FD responds to medical calls, they don't transport. Their Paramedics will often be on scene when the private service shows up, standing around with the "Do you need us? 'Cause the fight is on at the station..."


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## Shishkabob (May 7, 2009)

46Young said:


> I'm sure that it's similar in other *rural* areas of the Southeast.



Answered your own point.


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## 46Young (May 7, 2009)

Sasha said:


> Try as you may, you can't convince me that it's possible, in ORLANDO. A heavily populated, heavy tourist laden area. If we were talking Christmas or Brooksville or Osteen Florida, surely. But Orlando?? No. Cutting out a few per shift will not devestate the city's fire department.
> 
> 
> 
> While Orlando FD responds to medical calls, they don't transport. Their Paramedics will often be on scene when the private service shows up, standing around with the "Do you need us? 'Cause the fight is on at the station..."



Yeah, good point. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Fortunately, Fairfax takes EMS seriously.


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