# And to think.... people in our profession should know better



## Shishkabob (Sep 23, 2010)

http://chattanoogapulse.com/newsfea...iles-wrongful-arrest-lawsuit-against-city123/

Long story short:  EMT's wife "showed signs of stroke".  EMT loaded her up in personal car and raced to hospital, blew red lights and nearly hit a police cruiser (watch video).  EMT used his personal employee access card to get in to the ER.

Officer doesn't arrest the EMT on the spot, but instead has a warrant and does it a couple of days later (no delay of care for the wife.... bstone...)  


Paramedic sues for "wrongful" arrest and because he is no longer able to work due to the arrest.





So now the city will settle and this guy will get OUR (generic our) tax money for him breaking the law and no harm coming from the cop doing his job!  Fantastic.  (sarcasm)


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## JPINFV (Sep 23, 2010)

> Wright said he had treated all red lights as stop signs, though traffic video showed him clearly running one  red light, nearly colliding with Daves’ police cruiser.



As a California, I can provide expert testimony that what was shown in the video is impossible for a properly executed California (rolling) stop. Next time either call 911 or follow the traffic lights.


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## TransportJockey (Sep 23, 2010)

EMS does cater to the lowest common denominator, so I'm trying hard to be surprised that something like this could happen.


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## CAOX3 (Sep 23, 2010)

Linuss said:


> So now the city will settle and this guy will get OUR (generic our) tax money for him breaking the law and no harm coming from the cop doing his job!  Fantastic.  (sarcasm)



Yeah Im guessing the city isnt going to want to set legal precedent in a situation like this, every Tom, **** and Harry will be driving their family to the hospital.


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## CAO (Sep 24, 2010)

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_184733.asp

Another take on it.

From what I remember, the complaint wasn't for being arrested.  The claim was the officer blocked the door to the emergency room when the wife was clearly showing signs of a stroke.  Not knowing the exact nature of the illness, Wright wanted to rush his wife to the ER in case she needed thrombolysis.

I want to say his wife was suffering from a TIA, but nobody could have known at the time.

Could things have been handled better on both ends?  Probably.  I'm not the one to start pointing fingers.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 24, 2010)

Officer didn't throw the guy down and handcuff him right there, and the wife suffered no ACTUAL meaningful delay in care.



No way to spin it, they don't deserve a dime.


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## CAO (Sep 24, 2010)

Like I said.  I'm not arguing it either way.

Right or wrong, it boils down to a chance for somebody to make some money, so they're going to take it.


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## emt seeking first job (Sep 24, 2010)

I would think a trained, experienced EMT would realize the best care for his wife would be in an ambulance, with equipment, supplies and other hands.

I can not see doing that if an ambulance was less than 15 minutes away.


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## JPINFV (Sep 24, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> I would think a trained, experienced EMT would realize the best care for his wife would be in an ambulance, with equipment, supplies and other hands.



Actually, I thin a trained and experienced EMT would realize the limitations of EMS caring for a CVA short of easier loading and egress from the vehicle and ruling out hypoglycemia (which, unless the patient is diabetic or suffers from an insulinoma, is going to be rare). However, considering that by transporting in light of calling 911, you're already saving more time than lights and sirens transport period (between saving the 5-10 minute response time plus on scene evaluation, initial management, and packaging, you're easily saving more than the few minutes saved by lights and sirens), there's no reason to put everyone at risk blatantly running red lights. If this was, "Hey, it's late at night. I hit a red light, stopped, and then carefully proceed through a red light while no one was within line of sight on any approach, but a police officer was in the parking lot and saw me," I'd seriously consider being the first to defend himself. However driving like a bat out of hell like was seen in the video in inexcusable, especially in a POV.


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## Aidey (Sep 24, 2010)

I understand what you are saying about EMS not being able to do much, and the article doesn't explain at all how severe the woman's symptoms were, or the outcome. However, if her symptoms had been severe, or she was getting progressively worse EMS would have been able to do advanced airway management if needed. So just because we can't do anything right now doesn't mean the pt won't need intervention later.


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## JPINFV (Sep 24, 2010)

True, we don't know how fast it was progressing and how bad she was. More importantly, we don't know what the normal reasponse time is and what the transport time was. There's a big difference between being 5 minutes from the hospital (I grew up within 5 minutes of 2 hospitals, 10 minutes to a third with this one having both stroke and cath services) and a 15-20 minute drive and I hope that a trained provider would be able to gather enough information to make this sort of risk/benefit analysis.


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## jjesusfreak01 (Sep 24, 2010)

Quick question, what percentage of strokes need advanced airway management, or for that matter, anything besides a very quick trip to the hospital?


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## JPINFV (Sep 24, 2010)

jjesusfreak01 said:


> Quick question, what percentage of strokes need advanced airway management, or for that matter, anything besides a very quick trip to the hospital?



When my Mom had her first stroke, she needed an advanced airway. Of course my understanding (I was in grade school at the time), was that she was in a can't intubate/can't ventilate situation anyways and it wasn't until later at the hospital that they were able to diagnose a stroke.


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## CAO (Sep 24, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> More importantly, we don't know what the normal reasponse time is and what the transport time was.



I did some of my clinical rotations in Chattanooga.  Pretty much everywhere is well within ten minutes from a hospital if you're in the city limits.  With the county stations scattered around the area and multiple private services that pick up the 911 calls when it gets busy, times are pretty good around here.


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## emt seeking first job (Sep 24, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> Actually, I thin a trained and experienced EMT would realize the limitations of EMS caring for a CVA short of easier loading and egress from the vehicle and ruling out hypoglycemia (which, unless the patient is diabetic or suffers from an insulinoma, is going to be rare). However, considering that by transporting in light of calling 911, you're already saving more time than lights and sirens transport period (between saving the 5-10 minute response time plus on scene evaluation, initial management, and packaging, you're easily saving more than the few minutes saved by lights and sirens), there's no reason to put everyone at risk blatantly running red lights. If this was, "Hey, it's late at night. I hit a red light, stopped, and then carefully proceed through a red light while no one was within line of sight on any approach, but a police officer was in the parking lot and saw me," I'd seriously consider being the first to defend himself. However driving like a bat out of hell like was seen in the video in inexcusable, especially in a POV.





My opinion, based on common sense stands.

I would wait the 10-15 for the ambulance.

1) what if my own vehicle breaks down or gets in a crash ?

2) what if the medical situation got worse ?

3) I would be able to watch my wife, and encourage her to hang on, instead of watching the road. We all know that a supportive calm attentive voice and touch by a loved one is an effective intervention.


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## JPINFV (Sep 24, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> My opinion, based on common sense stands.
> 
> I would wait the 10-15 for the ambulance.
> 
> ...



1. What happens if the ambulance breaks down or gets into a crash?

2. How is this any different than a BLS unit waiting for paramedics?

3. I agree to an extent. It's an effective intervention, but if not nearly as effective as thrombolytics or vascular surgery (if indicated).


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## emt seeking first job (Sep 24, 2010)

JPINFV said:


> 1. What happens if the ambulance breaks down or gets into a crash?
> 
> 2. How is this any different than a BLS unit waiting for paramedics?
> 
> 3. I agree to an extent. It's an effective intervention, but if not nearly as effective as thrombolytics or vascular surgery (if indicated).



1) If the ambulance breaks down or gets in a crash, another ambulance will be sent, probably quicker than if the POV breaks down or gets in a crash.

With the POV, the guy would have to deal with the other party, and explaining why he has to leave ASAP...

Crash less likely as in his POV, his attention is diverted from the road, in the bus, the driver watching the road, the other emt watching the patient.

2) In NYS and NYC at least, ALS intercepts BLS on the way to the hospital, with the dispatcher co-ordinating the rendevous point.

3) Those interventions are not going to be done outside the hospital, so the real issue is which gets the patient to the hospital in a faster time with less risk. Transporting a loved one in a POV is very risky, the guy not in his right mind, and many people, in NY at least, will intentionally block, slow down, or cut off an aggressive driver, not me, I just let them go, but there is also the risk of getting into it with another driver.

The only way I would do a POV transport would be if the hospital was more than 20 minutes away....

It is just not wise what he did.


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## LonghornMedic (Sep 25, 2010)

I would think any medic would understand early access to healthcare. It's drilled into all levels of care from day one. I've been on more than one CVA call where we had to intubate or BVM. Not to mention that by the time we get to the ER, the patient is ready to go straight to the CT and get thrombolytics due to hospital stroke protocols. 

The danger this idiot put himself, his wife and the motoring public in was unacceptable. He literally was a second away from broadsiding the car in the turn lane and the police unit. At the speeds he and the police unit were travelling, the MVA would have been substantial. The charges should not have been dropped, especially in light of the fact it was captured on video. He showed bad judgement, endangered the public he chose to help as a medic and lied about coming to a full stop at all intersections(I'm sure it wasn't just the one he got caught at).


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## fortsmithman (Sep 25, 2010)

Linuss said:


> http://chattanoogapulse.com/newsfea...iles-wrongful-arrest-lawsuit-against-city123/
> 
> Long story short:  EMT's wife "showed signs of stroke".  EMT loaded her up in personal car and raced to hospital, blew red lights and nearly hit a police cruiser (watch video).  EMT used his personal employee access card to get in to the ER.
> 
> ...



The cop did the right thing.




Linuss said:


> Officer didn't throw the guy down and handcuff him right there, and the wife suffered no ACTUAL meaningful delay in care.
> 
> 
> 
> No way to spin it, they don't deserve a dime.



I agree there was no wrongful arrest the medic did wrong.  I've had something similar happen a relative needed to go to the ER I called for rig and when it arrived i went with my relative to the hospital.  No need to drive like a maniac and break laws.  That why I think the EMT should answer for this.


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## emt seeking first job (Sep 25, 2010)

Is the medic alledging that by racing his wife to the hospital her outcome was enhanced ?


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## bstone (Sep 26, 2010)

Linuss said:


> http://chattanoogapulse.com/newsfea...iles-wrongful-arrest-lawsuit-against-city123/
> 
> Long story short:  EMT's wife "showed signs of stroke".  EMT loaded her up in personal car and raced to hospital, blew red lights and nearly hit a police cruiser (watch video).  EMT used his personal employee access card to get in to the ER.
> 
> ...





Hey buddy, as long as there wasn't a moment of interfering with the speedy access to health care, I'm cool with it. He waited, got a warrant, kept a cool and level head. Bravo.


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## bstone (Sep 26, 2010)

emt seeking first job said:


> I would think a trained, experienced EMT would realize the best care for his wife would be in an ambulance, with equipment, supplies and other hands.
> 
> I can not see doing that if an ambulance was less than 15 minutes away.



Oh no. Not even close.


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