# EMT Charged With Abandoning Child



## Sasha (Mar 14, 2009)

*EMT Charged With Abandoning Child At Bronx Hospital After Forging Nurse's Signature
*
Full Article Here


> An impatient medic was arrested Friday for abandoning a 5-year-old boy at a Bronx hospital on New Year's Eve because he didn't want to wait for the paperwork, officials said.
> 
> Paul Casson, 28, of the Bronx, was charged with endangering the welfare of a child when he forged a nurse's signature because he didn't want to stick around at Lincoln Hospital, a spokeswoman for the Department of Investigation said.



First off, there's a lot of missing information in this article. How long did he wait around for a signature? Where were the kid's parents? Did he find the kid a chair and sit him down, or was he triaged into a room?

The faking a signature is inexcusable, but I feel that seven years is a little harsh, he didn't wander off from the child at the accident scene or anything, and it doesn't report that any harm came to the child from it.

And why did it take so long to arrest him?


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

There is an extraordinarily long wait in certain NYC emergency rooms.  Bronx is notorious for it.  This isn't a defense but it can be very frustrating.  

In NYC ERs, triage is done upon entering an ER and than a room is assigned. He was most likely put in a chair by the ambulance triage area. 

Forging the signature isn't acceptable.


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2009)

> Forging the signature isn't acceptable.



No, it's not. But does it really warrant seven years?


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## EMTSteve0 (Mar 14, 2009)

Sasha said:


> No, it's not. But does it really warrant seven years?



Maybe the article left out "COULD" face 7 years????....the actual likely hood of him receiving that time is slim, however you never know with system.  I mean cops get off for excessive force, so who knows?  I'm thinking a max of 1-2 years probation and fines.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

7 years is too much and he most likely won't get 7 years.  He will probably plea it down to something else.


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## medic417 (Mar 14, 2009)

EMT's are supposed to be medical professionals therefore should be held to higher ethical and moral standards.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

yes nurses and MDs never do anything unethically wrong.  Last year's best example was a patient who fell unconscious in a Brooklyn psych ER with MDs occassionally passing by and not helping.


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## EMTSteve0 (Mar 14, 2009)

medic417 said:


> EMT's are supposed to be medical professionals therefore should be held to higher ethical and moral standards.



So are policemen and politicians, but we all know the outcome of those....no not the knock on the bathroom stall Senator Larry Craig.  My plane takes off in an hour


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## medic417 (Mar 14, 2009)

Those nurses, doctors, police, ff's, politicians that violate public trust should be held to higher standards and get tougher sentences than the average person for the same crime.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Those nurses, doctors, police, ff's, politicians that violate public trust should be held to higher standards and get tougher sentences than the average person for the same crime.



The current Sec of treasury owes over 6 figues in back taxes.  He isn't going to jail.  Any of us would. Don't be too sure they get tougher anything.


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2009)

firecoins said:


> yes nurses and MDs never do anything unethically wrong. Last year's best example was a patient who fell unconscious in a Brooklyn psych ER with MDs occassionally passing by and not helping.


 
The difference here is the Paramedic was responsible for the child until direct contract was made with another healthcare provider.

I would NOT leave a child unattended in any public place and especially not a city ED. 

If this was a parent or teacher that left the child unattended, what do you think would happen to them? We would be bashing them with no mercy on this forum since EMS providers can do not wrong and can sit in judgement of all.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> The difference here is the Paramedic was responsible for the child until direct contract was made with another healthcare provider.


 


> I would NOT leave a child unattended in any public place and especially not a city ED.


 Neither would I. So?  



> If this was a parent or teacher that left the child unattended, what do you think would happen to them? We would be bashing them with no mercy on this forum since EMS providers can do not wrong and can sit in judgement of all.


Got left all sorts of situations alone as a kid. I guess I should be bashing my parents to all hell then.  I can't tell you how many times I was "left alone"  My friends too.  Lots of kids get left alone without parents or teachers getting in any trouble.  

Let not go overboard here.  I am not bashing parents, teacher, doctor, nurses, law enforcement or anyone else.  

We do not have all the fact here either.  So I will not bash the EMT/Medic who did this either.


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## Sasha (Mar 14, 2009)

> We would be bashing them with no mercy on this forum since EMS providers can do not wrong and can sit in judgement of all.



I'm sorry... I'm reading and re-reading this thread but I have yet to see where anyone said "HEY! The guy should get off!" or "EMS providers can do no wrong!". What has been said is that seven years is kind of harsh. And it is. I would agree that seven years is harsh if it had been a teacher. 

But then again, none of us have all the facts. Perhaps it is too harsh, perhaps seven years would be getting off too easy. Maybe they had made contact with a nurse in regards to the child prior to leaving, maybe they just up and off loaded in the waiting room. It's very unclear.


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## medic417 (Mar 14, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I'm sorry... I'm reading and re-reading this thread but I have yet to see where anyone said "HEY! The guy should get off!" or "EMS providers can do no wrong!". What has been said is that seven years is kind of harsh. And it is. I would agree that seven years is harsh if it had been a teacher.
> 
> But then again, none of us have all the facts. Perhaps it is too harsh, perhaps seven years would be getting off too easy. Maybe they had made contact with a nurse in regards to the child prior to leaving, maybe they just up and off loaded in the waiting room. It's very unclear.



What if the kid wondered off and was never found?


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 14, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I'm sorry... I'm reading and re-reading this thread but I have yet to see where anyone said "HEY! The guy should get off!" or "EMS providers can do no wrong!".


True.  But what has been implied is that, since non-EMS personnel commit crimes, that it's no big deal if EMS personnel commit crimes.  I find that line of thinking to be a morally unacceptable attempt to justify something that cannot be justified.  To hear our people talking like that is almost as embarrassing as the incident itself.  It speaks volumes about how very far we have to go to be a profession.



> But then again, none of us have all the facts.


We do.  We have the fact that paperwork was falsified.  That's all I need to know.  The rest is just details.  Falsification of an official document is completely unforgivable.  It reflects a lack of integrity that cannot be tolerated by any public servant, and certainly by no employee of mine.  Whatever anyone else has gotten for this crime is irrelevant.  Whatever he gets, he earned.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

medic417 said:


> What if the kid wondered off and was never found?



That might have been an improvement over the treatment in the ER.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> True.  But what has been implied is that, since non-EMS personnel commit crimes, that it's no big deal if EMS personnel commit crimes.


Wrong!  What has been implied is that EMTs should be treated like other medical professional who are suppossedly treated to higher standard.  No higher standard has been stablished. 



> We have the fact that paperwork was falsified.  That's all I need to know.  The rest is just details.


How do you know the paperwork has been falsified?  You don't.  Accoding to the Daily News Sean Avery, the NHL's "bad boy" died last season after a playoff game.  Somehow he made a miraculous recovery and was susppended this season for saying other NHL players date his sloppy seconds.  He currenlty is playing for the Rangers again.  You do not know very much from this article.


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## medic417 (Mar 14, 2009)

medic417 said:


> EMT's are supposed to be medical professionals therefore should be held to higher ethical and moral standards.





firecoins said:


> Wrong!  What has been implied is that EMTs should be treated like other medical professional who are suppossedly treated to higher standard.  No higher standard has been stablished.



Nothing implied other than Medical Professionals should be held to higher standards.  Did not say they were held to higher standards.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

okay,  I agree


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## VentMedic (Mar 14, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I'm sorry... I'm reading and re-reading this thread but I have yet to see where anyone said "HEY! The guy should get off!" or "EMS providers can do no wrong!". What has been said is that seven years is kind of harsh. And it is. I would agree that seven years is harsh if it had been a teacher.


 
Have you read a few of the threads on the forums about about "stupid things stupid people do"? 

Seven years could be the max. I am not familiar with the sentencing guidelines in that state. It doesn't matter what your title is if you endanger a child. However, the state department that licenses you may care about your title. If there are other charges such as forgery, that also can carry a heavy sentence. Since this was not just a forgery on a check but had the intended purpose of leaving the child and directing  blame toward the nurse, that could also have some implications to the severity with which he was charged.  The seven years could also be a total for all the charges being filed. With plea bargains he may only get time served and be back on the street as a Paramedic in a few weeks depending on how the state views some crimes or what he is actually convicted of. 



> Got left all sorts of situations alone as a kid. I guess I should be bashing my parents to all hell then. I can't tell you how many times I was "left alone" My friends too. Lots of kids get left alone without parents or teachers getting in any trouble.


 
Does that make it right if a child goes missing? Adam Walsh was only left unattended for a few minutes. Nobody thought anything about such stuff in the early 1980s...until something back made national news. Now there is a national awareness about what trouble a child can run into. There is also a very long list of missing children. Ignorance to these dangers probably won't work as a defense in the year 2009.


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## medicdan (Mar 14, 2009)

A question worth noting: Are EMTs and Paramedics in NYC required to have a CORI, or similar background check before hiring, because they can be in situations with children alone, where they are the responsible party.

Again, we dont know the circumstances behind this article, so we are doing nothing more then armchair EMS.


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## Airwaygoddess (Mar 14, 2009)

*Advocates!*

Bottom line..... We as professionals are the patient's advocate, no matter what certification or license one holds.  Emergency department waiting rooms are one of the most dangerous places that anyone including a child, could ever be in.

  Can't tell you how many times how all hell can break lose when patients, family members, or "concerned friends" come through those doors, what was done was a very very poor choice, what is even more upseting to me that it was a child.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

emt.dan said:


> A question worth noting: Are EMTs and Paramedics in NYC required to have a CORI, or similar background check before hiring, because they can be in situations with children alone, where they are the responsible party.
> 
> Again, we dont know the circumstances behind this article, so we are doing nothing more then armchair EMS.



all emts in NYS go through a backround check when they complete the class.  Employers all do their own check.  

Having dealt with the NYC system I am sure what happaned had nothing to do with previous criminal behaviou IF the article is correct in any capacity. 

This investigation could be the result of an argument between the triage nurse and the EMT/Medic.  I would not take the article at its word. 

The ambulance triage station is in the ER not in the waiting room.  The child if actualy left alone was not alone.


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## firecoins (Mar 14, 2009)

> An impatient medic was arrested Friday for abandoning a 5-year-old boy at a Bronx hospital on New Year's Eve because he didn't want to wait for the paperwork, officials said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## reaper (Mar 15, 2009)

If he did this it was wrong!

We are not getting the full story here. To many "what if's" left open.

Was the child left alone, really? Was the signature really forged? How do we know that the nurse did not sign for it and is now denying it to cover their butt? I have Rn's sign my epcr all the time. They scribble their signatures on it and it looks nothing like their actual signature. They could easily deny it is theirs.

If the investigation finds this all to be facts, then he should be jailed and lose his cert. But, lets wait for the full story on this!


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## VentMedic (Mar 15, 2009)

This incident happened over 10 weeks ago. That is plenty of time for an imvestigation. This is not a "breaking next day" news story. The story was not "leaked" to the press by an anonymous source although not directly named here the title is given. The family is not on national TV getting their 15 minutes of fame and a major settlement. The next question will be what the partner has to say and if he/she also has any knowledge of this by statements that may have been made or events witnessed.  But, that may already have happened.


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## reaper (Mar 15, 2009)

Yes, but you know that states can take forever to do an investigation!


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