# Signs and symptoms books.



## emp430 (May 22, 2010)

I'm looking for a signs and symptoms with treatment ref. book and was wondering if anyone knew of some good ones. Found some on Amazon but would like to hear of any others. Thanks


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## JPINFV (May 22, 2010)

Are you talking about something like a pathology text book?

Maybe something along the lines of 5-Minute Emergency Medicine Consult?


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## MrBrown (May 22, 2010)

If you are looking for something to narrow down those broad symptomatic patients and treat them then I strongly advise against it.

Ambulance Officers are not physicians, even an Intensive Care Paramedic is not a physician and all those flash gadgets like a lab, x ray and CT machines, ultrasound, MRI and specialst Consultants are required to make some sort of decent diagnosis before treatment can begin.

Now if you are looking for something to increase your knowledge then a good pathology textbook or an Emergency Medicine textbook is probably for you.


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## emp430 (May 22, 2010)

I'm looking for something to increase my knowledge and understand diseases and treatments. I'm not looking to play field doctor. Just trying to gain some more knowledge on it. Any specific pathology textbook better then others?


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## Veneficus (May 23, 2010)

Most Pathology texts I have used or seen do not get much into treatments. They are all about disease processes. 

If you are looking for something with a reasonable amount of both, you ae looking at basically a textbook for physicians like Harrison's Internal Medicine, Sabiston's Textbook of Surgery, or Nelson's Pediatrics. (or one of the emergency medicine texts I have no intention of owning.) 

A possible complication is that these books are quite expensive, especially when you own more than one. 

While they may teach you about various disease proesses, how to look for them, and how to treat them, they all assume you have understanding of basic and clinical science to apply to them.

If you are looking for something along the lines of a more detailed EMT or Paramedic text, there is nothing on or enterng the market I am aware of that will be what you seek.


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## WolfmanHarris (May 23, 2010)

The Merck Manual of Patient Symptoms is a good reference. Includes guidance on H&P, red flags, recommended labs and DI, etc. Geared more towards primary care you'll find a lot of symptoms aren't relevant to EMS, but still a good reference nonetheless.


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## usafmedic45 (May 23, 2010)

> I'm looking for a signs and symptoms with treatment ref. book



You probably have already seen the one you should be using: it's called your agency's protocol book.  



> I'm looking for something to increase my knowledge and understand diseases and treatments.



Like Veneficus said, study up on your A+P, pathophysiology, biochemistry, etc first.  Otherwise you are going to have a seriously difficult time digesting and applying anything you learn in the textbooks aimed at physicians and medical students, at least beyond simply being able to parrot back a bunch of information.   

Speaking from personal experience 9 times out of 10, a superb and broad knowledge of A+P and pathophysiology is the best thing a clinician can have, aside from a LOT of experience.  Why do you think medical students go through 2 years of hell having it crammed down their throats before they start learning much in the way of what the ignorant might view as "clinically significant".   I've been in healthcare going on 15 years, have a more or less photographic memory for things I have read and I still find that the ability to apply those skills saves my *** (and helps the patient) more times than some random fact I read years ago in a book.  In other words, you need to be able to reason through a problem and you don't get that- at least not easily- through the approach you're looking at taking.  If you know what is supposed to be happening and what happens when X goes wrong with a system, you can usually figure out what is up with the patient in all but the most obscure or complex cases (the ones that require a lot of testing to figure out, even in the hands of a skilled veteran clinician).


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## emp430 (May 23, 2010)

I have read my protocols and I know them. I simply want to continue reading and learning beyond my Paramedic cert. I'm not looking at an easy way out of learning. I'm not going to be carrying this around on calls trying to teat some obscure problem.  I've completed my Paramedic and now just want to keep up with different things and keep a nice ref. book. Just looking for a well written book that I can read through on down times and stay on top of things and learn some new too.  So if anyone knows of any other good books to keep around or ones they have let me know.


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## usafmedic45 (May 24, 2010)

> Just looking for a well written book that I can read through on down times and stay on top of things and learn some new too. So if anyone knows of any other good books to keep around or ones they have let me know.



Then you will be best served by following the advice that Veneficus had for you, as my elaborations on his points.  I can post a more detailed list tomorrow if you would like.    I'm too tired to do it at the moment and, more importantly, my fiancee is requesting my presence in bed as soon as this message is posted.


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## mycrofft (May 24, 2010)

*The Definitve S&S Handbook....the Holy Grail...*

I understand, through no definitive sources, that NASA tried to develop diagnostic algorithms, and failed. What happens is that so many maladies can present in so many ways, and so many maladies present along with others, that there is an invisibly thin tipping point between the thing petering out in zebras (too many answers) or abruptly crashing by having too few possibilities. Also, since you need to be balancing pt history and description of symptoms against your observations, it would be too cumbersome to try to describe the winnowing process your mind makes in diagnosing. Finally, while you can break down all decision making into yes/no decision trees, the process to define say a wart or a second degree burn would take pages and pages. Imagine differentiations like between a common cold and CHF?

Curiosity into that can be the first step into getting a higher certification or a degree. Go get your Merck and your A&P text and put em by the bed or on the back of the toilet, and remember to follow your protocols anyway until you write or graduate to new ones.

That's why it is an _art_ backed by science.


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## Veneficus (May 24, 2010)

I still have no idea what people see in the merk manual, i don't think it is very useful.


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## medic417 (May 24, 2010)

I find the 20 page first responder book to be all any Paramedic needs.  

Really there is no one book.  

http://www.prnmed.com/manuals.htm


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## medic417 (May 24, 2010)

Actually here is the one book for medical, they also make a dental one as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-No-Doctor-Handbook/dp/0942364155/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

Better yet download it free.

http://www.hesperian.org/publications_download_wtnd.php


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