# Questions about ACLS, PHTLS, PALS and others



## sportster65 (Apr 14, 2009)

Being a classic over achiever, I seem to always get acouple of steps ahead of myself. I am wondering when the best time to take these classes are? For example; the PHTLS seems to be, to me at least, the logical next step after EMT-B certification. But what about the others, should I get on board with a service first, to get some real-life experience, or would these be helpful for me to have when starting my job search. It looks as though some of the classes are advanced and are geared more for paramedics, but again, i really do not know and am looking for some feedback. I am right now enrolled in the EMT-B course and will be starting the Medical terminology, A & P, and medical math while in the EMT-B course. 

I am always eager for knowledge, and have already started an on-line anatomy self paced learning course. It is very basic, but it has familiarized me with what was "the Unknown" about a week ago. It is not for credit just for me to get some info before class. 

As a FYI, I plan to go to Medic school as soon as I can and eventually get CCP-C. I want to be as prepared for it as I can be. I am in a position where it will not hurt us financially, so I can concentrate on my studies and not worry where the next paycheck is coming from. I will also pay for it myself so I do have some discretion on where I want to go.

I guess I am asking are the above mentioned classes going to be helpful to me careerwise, or should  just concentrate on getting a job and into Medic school. Or will these classes have a positive impact on a prespective employer, and something I should look into. Like I said I do not have to get a job right away, so I would like to take advantage of the situation now if it is going to be helpful. My wife is very supportive and thinks I should get as much education as I can now while I have the time.

Than you very much for any input you may have.

Mark


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## reaper (Apr 14, 2009)

PHTLS does have a course for basics. It is a good review of trauma, but you should learn most of it in a "good" EMT-B class.

ACLS and PALS can be taken for your own knowledge, but you will not receive your card. Almost everything you learn in it, is above a EMT's scope of practice. You should be required to take them in Paramedic school. So, you will have to redo the classes, then.

So, if your want them for your own knowledge, take them. If you want to gain the knowledge from them, then wait till you have A&P and have started Medic school. That way you will understand what you are learning.


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## Veneficus (Apr 14, 2009)

sportster65 said:


> Being a classic over achiever, I seem to always get acouple of steps ahead of myself. I am wondering when the best time to take these classes are? For example; the PHTLS seems to be, to me at least, the logical next step after EMT-B certification. But what about the others, should I get on board with a service first, to get some real-life experience, or would these be helpful for me to have when starting my job search. It looks as though some of the classes are advanced and are geared more for paramedics, but again, i really do not know and am looking for some feedback. I am right now enrolled in the EMT-B course and will be starting the Medical terminology, A & P, and medical math while in the EMT-B course.
> 
> I am always eager for knowledge, and have already started an on-line anatomy self paced learning course. It is very basic, but it has familiarized me with what was "the Unknown" about a week ago. It is not for credit just for me to get some info before class.
> 
> ...



As of my information last summer, AHA does not permit basics to get certified for ACLS or PALS anymore. We turned several people away from the TC I teach at. If somebody does give you a card they may be in violation.

You probably would be better served by going to medic school first. Despite the simplicity of the AHA courses now, advanced treatments are not like in basic where you just follow the steps. There are decisions to be made which requires more understanding. You may also have trouble with certain skills, like identifying rhythms. If somebody taught you or you self taught to identify them by the pattern and not an identification system like 5 step, you will have a really hard habit to break. (which needs to be if you want to be a competent provider) 

I don't know anything about PHTLS or ITLS as they are both a complete waste of time and money as they are so basic. After you get your medic if you want to learn something about trauma go to an ATLS course.

If you want to really help your career go to a college, take some basic sciences like biology, chemistry, gross anatomy, physiology, pharmacology etc. and forget about the 2 day merit badge courses.


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## AnthonyM83 (Apr 15, 2009)

A&P and medical terminology will DEFINITELY help prepare you for paramedic school and the field. It'll also help you now as an EMTB. Don't forget other classes like general biology, molecular biology, basic chemistry, health, psychology, English/Writing. That will make you a strong medic (and medic student).

I do recommend PHTLS, though. It will devote a good deal of time and practice to your trauma knowledge and skills that you might not have gotten in EMT school.

I never got to take it, but through others, I highly recommend AMLS (it's about good assessments and field diagnoses).

If you have the money and time to spare, ACLS and PALS can only help by familiarizing you with what medics are doing in the field, as well as giving you many more topics to research on your own. Who cares if you actually get a cert or not. I know places that will still let you take it. With these two,though, studying the course books might be enough...


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## Ridryder911 (Apr 15, 2009)

AHA has NEVER certified anyone for PALS, ACLS, etc. It has always been a education course. Remember, they are not a certifying agency and never have been one. I have been an ACLS instructor for over 28 years and never certified anyone. In fact one of the questions always regarded that clarification.

One would receive a completion card that stated they completed a course under the guidelines of the ECCC & AHA. 

Yes, all levels may attend if that local training facility allows it. Personally, I find it no value for basics to attend. They are NOT developed as a teaching course nor would one increase their knowledge by just attending. One should already understand and know the information prior, it is just a course describing their protocol therapy and team management for resuscitation. Realistically, I would not even recommend it for Paramedics if it was not required. We need a better developed course. 

PHTLS has no longer separate courses. Both Basic and Advanced are now combined. I feel that was a mistake as well. Now, basics have to try to understand advanced procedures and understandings; even though they will not be allowed to perform them. As well, some of the material has been watered down at the advanced level which leaves Paramedics desiring more. Personally, I will not allow basics to attend mix courses. I will teach separate courses so we can focus and may be able to go into a more in-depth at each level. 

R/r 911


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## Veneficus (Apr 15, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> AHA has NEVER certified anyone for PALS, ACLS, etc. It has always been a education course. Remember, they are not a certifying agency and never have been one. I have been an ACLS instructor for over 28 years and never certified anyone. In fact one of the questions always regarded that clarification.



Sorry, was just shortening "certificate of completion" I should have done it better.



Ridryder911 said:


> Realistically, I would not even recommend it for Paramedics if it was not required. We need a better developed course.



I think that will be forthcoming now that everyone has been "retrained" on the most recent guidlines. You have to admit, prior to the video and standard testing, all classes were not equal, and the amount of cards given out with "yea I saw you do this for years" was out of control.



Ridryder911 said:


> PHTLS has no longer separate courses. Both Basic and Advanced are now combined. I feel that was a mistake as well. Now, basics have to try to understand advanced procedures and understandings; even though they will not be allowed to perform them. As well, some of the material has been watered down at the advanced level which leaves Paramedics desiring more. Personally, I will not allow basics to attend mix courses. I will teach separate courses so we can focus and may be able to go into a more in-depth at each level.



I think both PHTLS and ITLS were too watered down initially, and even more so now.  There should be nothing in either that a medic has not learned in school. Now with all the Advanced Burn Life support, etc. These classes do nothng but generate cash.


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## Ridryder911 (Apr 15, 2009)

I agree. I do PHTLS can be an asset to some in EMS especially those with little experience. Unfortunately, as you described all dependent upon the course and the way it is conducted.  I realize it is hard to keep continuity within a National program but better and more in-depth objectives and testing should be emphasized. 

The only reason I pointed out the certification is because I still continue to hear..." I am now certified in ACLS".. both pre & in hospital settings. 

R/r 911


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## mycrofft (Apr 26, 2009)

*Basics can attend, they have a use...*

Start IV's, place NPA's, practice monitoring after TASE-ing, etc. Buying beer and pizza after the final.
Seriously, I've gotten into two courses which were 'way above my head, and they truly were wastes of time for me and the instructor. I have however been in a few classes a _little_ over my head and they were good for me.


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## Jon (Apr 26, 2009)

ITLS/PHTLS is both an ALS and BLS course, and is a VERY good course to have. I really wonder why you would want to spend money or time in a class that you probably won't understand (ACLS/PALS).

As was said... why not go for A&P or something similar if you REALLY want to learn and help yourself going into medic school.


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## VentMedic (Apr 26, 2009)

sportster65 said:


> Being a classic over achiever, I seem to always get acouple of steps ahead of myself. I am wondering when the best time to take these classes are? For example; *the PHTLS* seems to be, to me at least, the logical next step* after EMT-B certification*. But what about the others, should I get on board with a service first, to get some real-life experience, or would these be helpful for me to have when starting my job search. It looks as though some of the classes are advanced and are geared more for paramedics, but again, i really do not know and am looking for some feedback. I am right now enrolled in the EMT-B course and will be starting the *Medical terminology, A & P, and medical math* while in the EMT-B course.
> 
> I am always eager for knowledge, and have already started an on-line *anatomy self paced learning course. It is very basic,* but it has familiarized me with what was "the Unknown" about a week ago. It is not for credit just for me to get some info before class.
> 
> ...


 
Too much focus on too many certs with too little foundation education.

Take real A&P college level courses, real medical terminology and real math classes. Then you can go onto whatever certs you want. Taking a class without having a good understanding of what is being discussed does one little good but just gets you a piece of paper. This is also deceiving to an employer but most can see through the paper snow job in any good interview.

If you want knowledge, do it in a structured manner at a college where it may actually mean something later.


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