# Airway lube..



## Household6 (Feb 18, 2013)

I can't be the only student to ask this.. 

My personal go-bag is kept in my vehicle, sometimes it gets below freezing, those packets of KY freeze.. I park in the garage, but if I'm at the movies or somewhere else, stuff gets cold..

Reviewing King and Combi skill labs the other day, I asked my instructor if I could use a trauma patient's blood as a lubricant if I didn't have access to my lube. I was thinking of it being a little frozen ice cube, and not wanting to blow on it and rub it in my hands while my patient is suffocating. 

He gave me blank look like no one has ever asked that before, and said no. You don't want to introduce fluids to the airway.. I'm obviously not going to argue, just make a note and remember the protocols he wants for the exams.

Is it a bad idea in a pinch? Why or why not? I'm the jerk that asks "why" about EVERYTHING..


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## mycrofft (Feb 18, 2013)

Metaquestion: why are you carrying advanced airway materials in your POV?

ANYWAY, blood is a Murphy's Law lubricant; it's slippery when you don't want it to be.

Ask your medical director.

EDIT: quote from the OP on another thread:
"If you get a job as a medic, and decide you don't like it, you can always go back to EMT.. Just because you have a degree for something doesn't mean that's what's you HAVE to do.

I feel for you, my husband is less-than supportive of my future career choice too.."

Red letters mine.
What is a "future" (non)-paramedic doing with advanced airways in a personal kit? That way lies danger.


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## Aprz (Feb 18, 2013)

Did he check for hidden cameras before he answered your question?


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## Household6 (Feb 18, 2013)

mycrofft said:


> Metaquestion: why are you carrying advanced airway materials in your POV?
> 
> ANYWAY, blood is a Murphy's Law lubricant; it's slippery when you don't want it to be.
> 
> Ask your medical director.



We were using the school's equipment. I carry lube packets for NPAs. The question came up because he was using handsoap on "Airway Larry".


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## Aidey (Feb 18, 2013)

You know, I think it is possible you are the only person in the history of EMS to ask that question. First off, you're only going to be putting a king or combi tube in a dead person. At that point a lack of heart beat is a bigger problem than suffocating. And if it is a trauma patient their chance of living is negligible anyway. If it is a non traumatic arrest worry about compressions, not airway. 

That being said, do NOT use blood as lube. It's beyond unnecessary. I don't know a single person that routinely lubes any airway device prehospital.


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## usalsfyre (Feb 18, 2013)

Aidey said:


> I don't know a single person that routinely lubes any airway device prehospital.


[raises hand]

That said...use lube. Your stuff shouldn't be exposed to freezing temps anyway.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 18, 2013)

I don't lube OPAs, but I lube every other device.


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## Aidey (Feb 18, 2013)

Well, there is so much hot air in Texas it must dry everything out.


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## abckidsmom (Feb 18, 2013)

Linuss said:


> I don't lube OPAs, but I lube every other device.



I lube NPAs, and lube ETTs smaller than about 5.5 or so.  Even in the humid.


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## Household6 (Feb 18, 2013)

usalsfyre said:


> [raises hand]
> 
> That said...use lube. Your stuff shouldn't be exposed to freezing temps anyway.



No sarcasm meant, but do have any suggestions? I do bring my stuff in the house if it gets real cold out, it concerns me that things like NRBs/BVMs will become brittle and break down or crack. I live in Minnesota, it gets darn cold. Our garage is always above 32 degrees, but like I said-- going to the movies, church on Sundays, going places where I have to park outside and it's not feasible to carry inside. 

I have an 08 Town and Country with in floor storage like this: http://www.motorguidance.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/In-floor-storage.jpg

I keep my goodies in the floor because my van is frequently full of passengers, I like the O2 to be laid down and secured below all of us. 

In the way way back pic of back there's no netting to safely secure things from becoming projectiles.


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## hogwiley (Feb 18, 2013)

I dont see why you couldnt use the patient's own saliva as a lubricant. 

I would never use blood though.


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## Meursault (Feb 18, 2013)

Household6 said:


> No sarcasm meant, but do have any suggestions?



Don't keep a whacker bag in the car? 
If you do, don't keep anything that expires or can't handle temperature fluctuations and that you're unlikely to ever need.
There's been much discussion about personal supplies of oxygen here, too; look for it.


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## Household6 (Feb 18, 2013)

Meursault said:


> *Don't keep a whacker bag in the car? *
> If you do, don't keep anything that expires or can't handle temperature fluctuations and that you're unlikely to ever need.
> There's been much discussion about personal supplies of oxygen here, too; look for it.



I know, I know, I know... It's required of me right now though.. It's a very rural community, responding with the gear that's been issued to me by the FD. Hopefully only until next semester, then I'll be done with being under the thumb of the FD.


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 18, 2013)

Household6 said:


> I know, I know, I know... It's required of me right now though.. It's a very rural community, responding with the gear that's been issued to me by the FD. Hopefully only until next semester, then I'll be done with being under the thumb of the FD.



That's a completely different situation than carrying a whacker bag just because you can.


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## Household6 (Feb 18, 2013)

Robb said:


> That's a completely different situation than carrying a whacker bag just because you can.



I'd rather not carry a tank around. I've asked for a smaller one, I was told "everyone wants a smaller one".. :glare: I'm on-call with the FD as a volunteer until the end of the summer. They have scholarships available to a limited number of people, if I preform well (according to the FD's standards) over the next six months, I have a good chance at snagging one for the EMT-A class at the CC. I'm hoping my Spanish will give me a leg up. I got a Pell Grant I was going to use this summer for American Sign Language class, hopefully that'll look good too.

If not, ASL and basic Spanish are nice to know.

I do like having a go bag here at home though.... In case the zombies come, yanno?


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## NYMedic828 (Feb 18, 2013)

Household6 said:


> I do like having a go bag here at home though.... In case the zombies come, yanno?



Better off filling that bag with antiobiotics and MREs. And a katana.


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## Aprz (Feb 19, 2013)

I think a better way for you to use the king airway is to stab the zombies through the eye, and it's probably more efficient without the lube. Maybe throw frozen packets of KY at them?


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## AGill01 (Feb 19, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> I dont see why you couldnt use the patient's own saliva as a lubricant.
> 
> I would never use blood though.



My first thoughts exactly. What if the patient isn't bleeding?


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## CritterNurse (Feb 19, 2013)

Household6 said:


> I know, I know, I know... It's required of me right now though.. It's a very rural community, responding with the gear that's been issued to me by the FD. Hopefully only until next semester, then I'll be done with being under the thumb of the FD.



So glad my department doesn't require that. We're rural, but my bag is pretty much just in case we get a call that it would be faster for me to go direct than to go to the station and pick up the ambulance. I live less than 1/4 of a mile from the station. My bag stays by my front door. I've taken it out of the house once since it was issued, and that was more of a PR opportunity, not an emergency.


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## mycrofft (Feb 19, 2013)

*Product chemical info for SurgiLube*

http://www.surgilube.com/pdfs/surgi-msds.pdf

No freeze point established, amount of propylene glycol (antifreeze) "proprietary".

Generic KY:
http://euroband.com/MSDSPedicat.pdf
Has 84% water, 14% P.Glycol, plus others including chlorhexidine gluconate (Hibiclens) probably as a preservative.


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## Household6 (Feb 19, 2013)

CritterNurse said:


> So glad my department doesn't require that. We're rural, but my bag is pretty much just in case we get a call that it would be faster for me to go direct than to go to the station and pick up the ambulance. I live less than 1/4 of a mile from the station. My bag stays by my front door. I've taken it out of the house once since it was issued, and that was more of a PR opportunity, not an emergency.




It's almost always faster for me to go direct.. I'm 19 miles from the station, 6 miles to the FD.. :wacko:


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