# Australia recruiting international paramedics



## Scott33

http://www.stjohnchangelives.com.au/qualified-paramedics.html

http://www.stjohnchangelives.com.au/assets/templates/main/documents/STJO0221C_HR.pdf


----------



## 46Young

From what I've read on this forum, this service is supposed to pay well, and have excellent benefits/working conditions. I'd look into why they need to hire from foreign countries. Is there some factor that's creating turnover? Or is there simply a shortage of paramedics over there?

What are their educational requirements?


----------



## Handsome Robb

I would love to move to and work in Australia...


----------



## shfd739

NVRob said:


> I would love to move to and work in Australia...



No kidding. I could have the Land Cruiser of my dreams and the camping/offroading over there is awesome.

Wonder if I can talk the wifey into it?


----------



## nswAU

shfd739 said:


> No kidding. I could have the Land Cruiser of my dreams and the camping/offroading over there is awesome.
> 
> Wonder if I can talk the wifey into it?



Landcruiser ambulance? They're pretty ugly, just sayin' haha


----------



## 46Young

This might not be a bad idea - I love to surf, I've got NR-P and six years medic experience so I'm recognized as equivalent, and Australia could be a safe haven if and when we experience hyperinflation and this country goes down the tubes. Their EMS is also not effed up like our joke system, nationally speaking.

The above is not as tongue-in-cheek as it appears to be. I would really consider the move if this country continues on it's path to financial ruin.


----------



## McGoo

Ha, this is who I work for. The reason for international recruiting is that we are expanding massively at the moment, and are in short supply of paramedics. 15 years ago maybe 10 or 15 people would get trained every year. Now there are two groups of 100 rookies every year, plus however many get recruited from interstate or overseas. 

I just found out how different Australia and US EMS systems are. We work essentially independently, if we see something that needs treating, we treat it. No online control, no checking with the doctor. We can call up in exceptional circumstances, but I've only done it once in 18 months.


----------



## InsidiousStealth

McGoo said:


> Ha, this is who I work for. The reason for international recruiting is that we are expanding massively at the moment, and are in short supply of paramedics. 15 years ago maybe 10 or 15 people would get trained every year. Now there are two groups of 100 rookies every year, plus however many get recruited from interstate or overseas.
> 
> I just found out how different Australia and US EMS systems are. We work essentially independently, if we see something that needs treating, we treat it. No online control, no checking with the doctor. We can call up in exceptional circumstances, but I've only done it once in 18 months.



do you think in say 4 or 5 years they will still look for people? I will have my EMT-A certification here in canada in about a week or so but hoping to do paramedic the following year here, unless they pay for it down there if you're an EMT-A??


----------



## Aprz

I don't meet the prereqs. :[ 2 years experience as an EMT-P or EMT-I, EMT-I may require more experience based on their local practice.


----------



## McGoo

InsidiousStealth said:


> do you think in say 4 or 5 years they will still look for people? I will have my EMT-A certification here in canada in about a week or so but hoping to do paramedic the following year here, unless they pay for it down there if you're an EMT-A??



I think it's a safe bet that we will still be recruiting then. It's been going on for a few years now, and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

I'm not familiar with EMT-A, but we have paramedic and ambulance officer. Ambulance officer is simply paramedic in training. Paramedic scope is slightly less than Albertas EMT-P, but we have more training behind it (bachelor of science degree). We don't do catheters, or rectal anything, but we should have the rest soon.


----------



## bigbaldguy

46Young said:


> This might not be a bad idea - I love to surf, I've got NR-P and six years medic experience so I'm recognized as equivalent, and Australia could be a safe haven if and when we experience hyperinflation and this country goes down the tubes. Their EMS is also not effed up like our joke system, nationally speaking.
> 
> The above is not as tongue-in-cheek as it appears to be. I would really consider the move if this country continues on it's path to financial ruin.



All you need is a police interceptor with a blower a sawed off shotgun and a black leather outfit and you're set.


----------



## InsidiousStealth

McGoo said:


> I think it's a safe bet that we will still be recruiting then. It's been going on for a few years now, and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.
> 
> I'm not familiar with EMT-A, but we have paramedic and ambulance officer. Ambulance officer is simply paramedic in training. Paramedic scope is slightly less than Albertas EMT-P, but we have more training behind it (bachelor of science degree). We don't do catheters, or rectal anything, but we should have the rest soon.



Thanks for the response friend,

Do you think they would consider me if I worked at an ambulance service as an EMR for a year and just getting my EMT now?


----------



## nswAU

InsidiousStealth said:


> Thanks for the response friend,
> 
> Do you think they would consider me if I worked at an ambulance service as an EMR for a year and just getting my EMT now?



Remember our systems here are near exclusive paramedic. So anything less than a EMT-I with much experience wouldn't be considered, I'd think. Our Ambulance systems are very different from the US. it's near complete "offline" I.e w/o med control, I'm guessing youd have to be quite confident, that is not be Someone rellying on control For orders.


----------



## InsidiousStealth

nswAU said:


> Remember our systems here are near exclusive paramedic. So anything less than a EMT-I with much experience wouldn't be considered, I'd think. Our Ambulance systems are very different from the US. it's near complete "offline" I.e w/o med control, I'm guessing youd have to be quite confident, that is not be Someone rellying on control For orders.



I'm from Canada though but I hear what you're saying.


----------



## Handsome Robb

My question is what exactly does "Paramedic" mean? ILS? ALS? Is it dependent on your experience and demonstration of knowledge upon hire?

I'm a long way off from ever being able to make something like this happen but as McGoo said, this recruitment could go on for a while.


----------



## shfd739

nswAU said:


> Landcruiser ambulance? They're pretty ugly, just sayin' haha



Oh no not the ambulance. I want a 70 series or 105 series diesel wagon with a Kimberly Kamper to pull behind it.

I could so do Australia, but in reality we are too committed and deep into careers here to make that drastic a move.


----------



## McGoo

NVRob said:


> My question is what exactly does "Paramedic" mean? ILS? ALS? Is it dependent on your experience and demonstration of knowledge upon hire?
> 
> I'm a long way off from ever being able to make something like this happen but as McGoo said, this recruitment could go on for a while.



For us, a paramedic means a qualified person who has completed the degree and three years on road training, as we work full time from second year of uni onwards and study full time. Paramedics can intubate, cryc, do 12 leads (coming), chest decompression, bone gun, we have about thirty drugs available, plus all your normal medic skills. EMT-P would be closest I think. 

As for EMR experience, it's a plus, but it's a long way from our paramedic role. It would get you through the door, but you would probably have to start at the bottom. Unfortunately we only sponsor international people who can work as paramedic already, or close to it. EMT-I might get you over the line, EMT-P would be a sure thing I think. 

Have a look at the website in the first post as there are links to pages with skill sets and what is required for recruitment.


----------



## ExpatMedic0

Mcgoo do you guys use ICP Paramedics or does that level not exists in your agency? The Paramedic stuff seems to vary in different parts of Australia?

The desert is kind of getting boring. I just started another international contract near Dubai but a change of scenery might be nice once this contract ends.


----------



## McGoo

schulz said:


> Mcgoo do you guys use ICP Paramedics or does that level not exists in your agency? The Paramedic stuff seems to vary in different parts of Australia?
> 
> The desert is kind of getting boring. I just started another international contract near Dubai but a change of scenery might be nice once this contract ends.



Technically we don't have ICP, but we do have crit care medics on the helicopter, so sort of yes. There are only ten or so guys who rotate through the chopper, and it takes a long time to get there. You need to do a masters or postgrad in paramedicine to apply for that role. 

Our standard paramedic is a lot closer to what other states call ICP or CCP or MICA than their standard paramedic, however, so it isn't a clear cut thing. work here is very non-stressful, not much trauma by US standards, mostly nana retrieval and UTI response squad work for the most part. It is a great place to live, however, especially for bringing up kids. Plus the salary is not too shabby.


----------



## mycrofft

*Here's Queensland's recruiting pdf*

http://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/recruitment/pdf/QP%20TOTAL%20Bk2.pdf
Me, I'm going to mistrust private recruiting companies. You could wind up someone's sex slave or something...


----------



## McGoo

mycrofft said:


> http://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/recruitment/pdf/QP TOTAL Bk2.pdf
> Me, I'm going to mistrust private recruiting companies. You could wind up someone's sex slave or something...



Umm, private? The link you posted is for a government run service. And the original links were to a not for profit charity that gets government funding to be the only public emergency responder in the state. We do have private companies, but these two ain't them.


----------



## mycrofft

*I didn't mean to imply the limited list was private .*

I posted Queensland's site purposely because it is NOT a private recruiter.

When I googled it, the top five returns were private recruiters, not counting the two paid ads above the search criteria confirmation line.

Headhunters only care about bringing the bodies over, they don't care if you get back, or if you can really get the job or not.


----------



## McGoo

mycrofft said:


> I posted Queensland's site purposely because it is NOT a private recruiter.
> 
> When I googled it, the top five returns were private recruiters, not counting the two paid ads above the search criteria confirmation line.
> 
> Headhunters only care about bringing the bodies over, they don't care if you get back, or if you can really get the job or not.



Ah, roger that. My misunderstanding. We do have private companies, but I have no idea how they recruit or who through, we do all ours in house.


----------



## nswAU

McGoo said:


> Ah, roger that. My misunderstanding. We do have private companies, but I have no idea how they recruit or who through, we do all ours in house.



Well it is like NSW and most of Aus, private companies do mainly event coverage (if St John volunteers don't cover it) and very few IFT. only the statutory ambulance service (ie ASNSW (govt) here or St John in WA) can respond to 000 calls.


----------



## mycrofft

*Employers would contract with US companies to recruit.*

Recruiters can be good or they can be like used car salesmen.


----------



## para344

Private companies in Victoria handle non-emerg transports (inter-hospitals etc...) as well as event coverage. There are also private companies that sub-contract industrial paramedics, mine rescue, etc...


----------



## para344

If you are considering applying to work in Australia with one of the emergency ambulance services (all state run btw), it is better to write directly to them. Most services will happily let you know when their next intake is and some will consider applications from international paramedics at any time. The ambulance services are;

Victoria (VIC): Ambulance Victoria 
New South Wales (NSW):  Ambulance Service of NSW
Queensland (QLD):  Queensland Ambulance Service
Tasmania: Ambulance Tasmania
South Australia (SA):  South Australian Ambulance Service
Australian Capital Territory (ACT): ACT Ambulance Service 
West Australia (WA): St John Ambulance Australia (WA)
Northern territory (NT): St John Ambulance Australia (NT) 

The last two (St John) are a charitable organisation that contracts to the government to provide ambulance services.
ACT Ambulance only employs ICP's.

Your other option is to apply to one of the mining companies... They pay reasonably well, but are dependent on the minerals boom... 

Hope this helps.


----------



## mycrofft

*Good on you, Para*

.....


----------



## hails*

*from alberta to australia*

does anyone know the qualifications needed and what is transferable? Im an EMT-A in alberta and CMA acredidted which is reconized across Canada but i dont know much for internationally...

any ideas??


----------



## Scott33

If you read the 2 links in the first post, you will get an idea of what is transferrable, and what may have to be based on individual merit.


----------



## para344

The current base education for a paramedic is a degree; 3 years of uni specialising in pre-hospital care, usually followed by 1 year of employment as a paramedic to be recognised as "qualified" (similar to what nurses have to do here). Untgil there is national registration, each state will continue to have slightly different requirements :huh: ... That's for ALS level. And, as has been much discussed here, there are differences in scope of practice between the different EMS providers here and internationally.

To qualify as an ICP paramedic, you usually need to have been practicing at an ALS level for 2 years post-qualification and then undertake an internal ICP course. While the course is internal, it includes a graduate diploma from a recognised university. Victoria has had a graduate diploma requirement for many years, so I suspect you would need to have at least that level of education to be considered for ICP here.

:excl: If you want to fully understand our scope of practice you should look at these guidelines . This is what Victorian paramedics (ALS & ICP/MICA) use. Note that they are guidelines only and we can operate outside them *if justified* . What this means is that I could, as an ALS paramedic, perform an ICP level procedure if a) I was trained b)the patient clearly needed it c) it was clinically, ethically, and legally justifiable d) I have consulted with a higher medical authority if available (ie; one of our senior ICP's in the control room, a doctor at the receiving hospital, or another reasonable source) e) it is reasonable to do so.  The last point underpins much of Australian law in this regard - ie; what would a reasonable person with the same level of education, training and experience do in the same situation.

That said, not many paramedics of any level will operate outside our guidelines without consultation.  a) because it is generally easy to consult b) because the guidelines are pretty comprehensive and being added to every year (using evidence based research) and c) because you *will *cop a clinical review and need to attend a please explain meeting which is painful. However, consultation is an everyday occurrence here and is used to form part of the evidence base for instituting change (yes, it is encouraged).

I hope that helps to answer some scope questions for you.

Now, regarding  portability and recognition. There are two ways you could do this;

1. Apply to a specific ambulance service in Australia. Contact them and request info regarding their specific educational and experience requirements. Then, compare your education to their requirements (see RPL below) and note all matches and mis-matches (you will need to explain why the mis-matches are irrelevant - if they are). Now, get a copy of their Clinical Practice Guidelines (all Australian services have them, and they are named as such) and compare what you currently do with theirs; CPG by CPG, again noting any differences. If you come up as meeting all the requirements, then you can write to them and explain why you would be a great asset to their service and ask for an interview. Of course, they may just want to see you in person. No one ever said this was easy! Oh, and you will also need a work visa before you can apply. See the Department of Immigration for further info. I don't know of any service that will sponsor you.

2. RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning). Australia uses a national framework of educational qualification that enables you to have qualifications from one university recognised by another. The beauty of this is that you can have international qualifications recognised as well. To do this you will need to find a university that is willing (read helpful and proactive) to go through the process with you. Once that is done, you wil need to compare your current qualification with theirs. To do this, you need the course, unit and subject outlines from both universities and compare them. Once again, you need to note the matches and mis-matches. Any mis-matches can be dealt with by enrolling with that university and completing their degree by distance education (but only the units you require - the mis-matches essentially). You then end up with an Australian degree which will be recognised by any service here.

Option 1 is good if you have the education, skills and experience to match the service in the state you want to live in (more research there!). Option 2 is good if you aren't sure or if you don't meet Australian education requirements.

Option 1 is painfully long and tedious (which probably explains the lack of international paramedics, but there are some here). Option 2 can be expensive (you need to check out the university fee structure for international students)

Clear as mud? I thought so! It is a difficult process, but it is possible. First you need to make the decision about whether or not you want to live and work in Australia. You should also check out the cost of living and pay rates. Also, be prepared to do a lot of leg-work in getting all your paperwork and cross-referencing done.

Good luck! Let me know if you want any other info.

P

PS: There is an ex-AV paramedic working in/around Whitehorse...


----------



## Medic419

*Paramedic's in an ER*

Good Morning,
I was curious if AU Medics work in Emergency Rooms as they do here in the US? My wife and I are thinking about relocating to AU next year.


----------



## nswAU

Not that I know of. Our emergency departments here are near exclusive located in "public hospitals" and are staffed by RN's, EN's, Nurse practitioners and Doctors. Also keep in mind the paramedics here are paid significantly better and there is no "massive chunk" of health deductibles taken out (only the 1.5% medicare premium which covers all treatments by your family doctor, public hospital etc and you can opt for "private health funds" which cover dental etc for about $80 a week for a family)


----------



## Medic419

Thanks for the reply. It's interesting to see that people use the ER for an ER and not a DR's Office.


----------



## ambulance

Dear members, Could anyone suggest a Paramedic degree pathway for an overseas qualified paramedic. I have obtained an Advanced Diploma in paramedic science from Australia through RPL. I am looking for a cost-effective university-based pathway from an Advanced Diploma to a Bachelor's degree by online mode. I would appreciate the member's suggestions. Thank you in advance.


----------



## RedBlanketRunner

I'd like to see side by side qualification criteria and training standards between Europe, the U.S. and Aus. Would be interesting.
I remember a few years back Aus not accepting physicians from the U.S.. Standards didn't meet criteria. Never heard how that has been addressed if it has.
If you want a Land Rover, head to the Northern Territory. Good running ones, dirt cheap. The down side is you can't drive them. Any problem or defect gets you a nasty ticket and they may even abate the vehicle. A crack in any window, seat off it's track, any rust, oil on the engine etc. When I went to buy one there, had a really good running one for only $500 I was sternly warned to get a rego pre-inspection. My dream LR went up in smoke when I discovered it would take way over $7500 to bring it up to legal.

NT cops give a whole new meaning to hard nosed. 03:00 not another car in sight. I pulled up to a red light, stopped and made the turn. Instant pull over from nowhere. 20 minutes explaining it was legal in the US. They took the info off my passport telling me they would keep it on file. One more maneuver like that and they would throw the book at me.


----------



## CCCSD

RedBlanketRunner said:


> I'd like to see side by side qualification criteria and training standards between Europe, the U.S. and Aus. Would be interesting.
> I remember a few years back Aus not accepting physicians from the U.S.. Standards didn't meet criteria. Never heard how that has been addressed if it has.
> If you want a Land Rover, head to the Northern Territory. Good running ones, dirt cheap. The down side is you can't drive them. Any problem or defect gets you a nasty ticket and they may even abate the vehicle. A crack in any window, seat off it's track, any rust, oil on the engine etc. When I went to buy one there, had a really good running one for only $500 I was sternly warned to get a rego pre-inspection. My dream LR went up in smoke when I disccovered it would take way over $7500 to bring it up to legal.



What, if anything, does your rambling reply have to do with this topic?


----------



## RedBlanketRunner

CCCSD said:


> What, if anything, does your rambling reply have to do with this topic?


_"I'd like to see side by side qualification criteria and training standards between Europe, the U.S. and Aus."_

Thinking of pie in the sky, darling. Universal standards of pre-hospital patient care. Then I touched on a subject another posting brought up and I mentioned certain standards that an emergency response agency upheld to give an example of how on top of things they were in NT. Now if you look carefully on your screen you will see the little click thing 'Report'. Click it and a text box will open. You can cut and paste the following works in it: "Off Topic".


----------



## CCCSD

Again. What do your stories bring to the discussion, which was regarding Paramedics.


----------

