# Heartland Regional Medical Center in St. Joseph, Missouri Used Cats for PALS Training



## MMiz (Sep 21, 2009)

*Heartland switching to mannequins for PALS training*

After more than 25 years using live cats in its pediatric advanced life support (PALS) course, Heartland Regional Medical Center is making the switch to state-of-the-art mannequins.

The intent behind using cats always has been to provide as lifelike a situation as possible in training medical professionals to intubate the small airways of infants and other young children, Heartland has said in the past, and cats’ airways are similar to those of children. The hospital drew criticism from PETA in June for its use of cats, but maintained that the cats were treated humanely and that they were its best training option — until recently.

*Read more!*


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## Jon (Sep 22, 2009)

Honestly - I think that would be more realistic than the peds airway trainers we used.

Hey Rid - was this how it was done in the Stoned Ages?


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## Sasha (Sep 22, 2009)

A school in my area used cats for airway practice until one girl claimed PTSD from it and got the local PETA involved.


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## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 22, 2009)

Jon said:


> Hey Rid - was this how it was done in the Stoned Ages?



Baby Mastadons?  :unsure:

Seriously, is intubating a pedi comparable to intubating a cat?


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## Barney_Fife (Sep 22, 2009)

Poor cats. That's just sick. I'm sure there are plenty of homeless dwarfs that would do it for $50


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## Mountain Res-Q (Sep 22, 2009)

Barney_Fife said:


> Poor cats. That's just sick. I'm sure there are plenty of homeless dwarfs that would do it for $50



Leave the humor to the professionals...  ^_^


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## Akulahawk (Sep 22, 2009)

Barney_Fife said:


> Poor cats. That's just sick. I'm sure there are plenty of homeless dwarfs that would do it for $50





Mountain Res-Q said:


> Leave the humor to the professionals...  ^_^


They're overcharging...


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## Barney_Fife (Sep 22, 2009)

Mountain Res-Q said:


> Leave the humor to the professionals...  ^_^



Well, I'm certainly not a volunteer stand up comic.


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## VentMedic (Sep 22, 2009)

We used cats and ferrets for intubation with the pedi/neo units.

For chest tube insertion we used floppy eared bunny rabbits. Unfortunately the bunnies didn't do as well as most of the cats and ferrets.


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## Akulahawk (Sep 22, 2009)

The thing with cats is that the size of their trachea is close to that of smaller kids... They also will exhibit natural variation in their airways. Every cat will be different. This is NOT the case with mannequins. The use of mannequins is much less likely to trigger an emotional response, as cats can.

The use of animals as a stand-in is something that has a long history... and does help in teaching how animals "behave" in response to something done.


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## Barney_Fife (Sep 22, 2009)

Do they make a infant version of Sim-Man?


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## Jon (Sep 22, 2009)

Barney_Fife said:


> Do they make a infant version of Sim-Man?


Short answer - yes.


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## Shishkabob (Sep 22, 2009)

Jon said:


> Stoned Ages?



What does Mary-J have to do with intubation?




Oh wait...


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## Ridryder911 (Sep 22, 2009)

Actually, I am sad they are changing. We used cats, ferrets, etc... sorry mannequins lacks any "realism". in comparison, I don't care if they the Sims 3,000 or what ever. There is nothing like intubating a live animal and the feel of pressure realizing if you don't ventilate or perform properly this animal may die. 

Rubber and synthetic heads attempt to make some realism but it still way short of having a living thing on the table. 

R/r 911


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## Aidey (Sep 22, 2009)

The hospital where I went to school used to use cats, but PETA got involved and that was the end of it. The used cats from the local shelter that were going to be put down anyway. They would knock them out, let people practice the intubation, and then at the end a vet tech would administer the euthanasia meds.


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## firecoins (Sep 22, 2009)

I would make the switch from cats to PETA members.  I bet PETA members would be more realistic.


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## medic417 (Sep 22, 2009)

firecoins said:


> I would make the switch from cats to PETA members.  I bet PETA members would be more realistic.



I second the motion.  All in favor say aye.  Motion carries.

It is stupid to put animal life above human.


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## mycrofft (Sep 23, 2009)

*Not going there (animals above humans).*

For a very long time Army used to shoot a goat to practice treating GSW's. Now I think they serve them with cheesy potates in MRE's.

Locally, Univ Calif at Davis once had a US gov contract testing the effects of radiation on mammals, and used beagles (!!!). The study ended and some of the beagles were buried at the south end of their property.
Comes the 21st Century, they want to put in construction, and spent tens of millions of dollars to locate, delineate, remove and dispose of the "low-level" alpha and beta emitters they had created and buried. REVENGE OF THE BEAGLES!
http://safetyservices.ucdavis.edu/environmental-health-safety/environmental/lehr-superfund-site/fact-sheets/site-assessment-and-cleanup

(squirrel?!)


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