# a "incident"



## medicnick83

This past weekend I worked a volunteer shift and had a "incident" and I wanted to see what you guys think about it.

The call came in for a MVA, truck and bike - 2 patients and the address was given to another ambulance, since we figured we were closer to the call, we asked if we could goto the call instead (this would've been our first call for the shift so we were keen to do it) the call was then given to us and the other ambulance was stood down. 

We headed in the direction, but because of traffic, we ended up having to take a slightly longer route (but we talking +20 seconds) onto the time.

But the ambulance that was stood down, headed to the call anyways (we expected that to happen as we know the ambulance crew)

Suffice to say, they arrived at the call and came over the radio saying the following;

"X has arrived at the scene, we took a slow drive to the location and still arrived first at the location, Control, can you find out if ambulance Y took a long scenic drive to get here because they are not here yet?"

We arrived basically 5 seconds (we were obviously responding!) not even after they did.

Man I was sooooooooooooo angry at the person in question - I was FUMING!

I got out the ambulance after telling control that we arrived, walked towards the ambulance and asked him in a raised tone (because he was inside the ambulance - we could border line say I was shouting) "WAS THAT NECESSARY?" to which he nodded his head YES with a smile.

Now I consider this guy "a friend"

That made me even more angry to think that a friend would do that!

To make matters worse, they just turned around and left the scene - they didn't bother to come help us or see if we needed help.

Now the issue I have here is...

Why did he do that, that was uncalled for - however, he is known for doing this and other things to people, he will steal calls, dodge certain calls etc but since we are a volunteer ambulance on shift, why did he have to go and say that over the radio?

I was told later that I should maybe consider apologizing to him, but I bluntly refuse too!
I honestly believe I didn't do anything wrong - I never swore at him, I never did anything disrespectful, I just asked a question and he knows I'm pissed at him but he has this "attitude" where he probably believes he didn't do anything wrong when I'm sure you guys can agree he did.

Comments?
Thoughts?
Suggestions?


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## FourLoko

get over it?


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## Martyn

Just one question, what type of rig were you on ALS or BLS and what were they on? If they were ALS and, as I think you said , they did nothing just pull up then drive off could that be grounds for abandonment? Especially if they were an ALS rig and if you were on a BLS rig


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## DrParasite

I'd jumped calls before.  we have units that jump hot jobs before anyone is even dispatched (they overhead it on the police scanner).  it happens, unless it's a hot job and you are over eager to work, don't stress it.

Actually had a medic unit say they wanted the next ALS job that came in.  didn't matter where it was in the city, or what it was, or if they were closest, they were bored and wanted the next job that came in.  so we gave it to them.

I've also been cancelled from major calls (cardiac arrests, MVAs, major traumas, etc) on border jobs and mutual aid jobs (when we had other units available) and taken an available ride to the scene to see if the crew needed any help.  not committed to the scene, just available.

if the other crew wants to beat you to the scene, fine, let them write the chart.  you can assist, deal with the patient, and let them handle all the documentation.  tell dispatch over the radio "sorry we got struck in traffic, we will cancel since they are already there" who cares, your not officially "there," only the other crew is.  take the cancel, be available, help out, load the patient into their truck and get dinner.  

and if they need help, or another truck, like magic you are there backing them up.

seriously not worth stressing.


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## DrParasite

medicnick83 said:


> I was told later that I should maybe consider apologizing to him, but I bluntly refuse too!


umm, based on what you just said, what do you need to apologize for?  taking 20 seconds longer? :censored::censored::censored::censored: happens.

unless there is more to the story, you have nothing to apologize for.  if anything, they might owe you an apology, or at least have a senior man pull your buddy aside and tell him to stop acting like an unprofessional jerk.


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## mycrofft

*Either forget it or go to a supervisor .*

That sort of radio traffics is very unprofessional and could, if monitored, be injurious to the company.


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## Handsome Robb

All I will say is yelling at him out in the public eye is pretty unprofessional. Was he right for what he said on the radio? Absolutely not. My opinion is there are mistakes on both sides here. I'd say talk it out, learn from it and move on.


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## medic417

Time for both of you to grow up.


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## fast65

medic417 said:


> Time for both of you to grow up.



Agreed. The actions of both of you were pretty unprofessional from where I'm standing.


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## Nervegas

I go where the voices tell me to go...


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## Chimpie

Should he had said that on the radio? No.
Should you have questioned it (yelled it) on scene? No.

You're both in the wrong here.  The better thing to do was/is to pull him off to the side and talk to him.  Say something like, "When you said that over the radio, you made me feel..."  He can't debate how he made you feel.  He can debate whether it was professional or not, he can debate whether it put the company in danger or not, he can debate whether leaving the scene before checking on the patient was right or not, but he can't debate how you felt.


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## abckidsmom

Chimpie said:


> Say something like, "When you said that over the radio, you made me feel..."




I thought that was a top-secret female argument device.  What the heck?  The secret's out?


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## Aidey

Yup, it's out. That is how they came up with "I'm sorry you feel that way".


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## abckidsmom

Aidey said:


> Yup, it's out. That is how they came up with "I'm sorry you feel that way".



"I'm sorry you feel that way" is the lamest, most non-apologetic apology in the history of apologies.


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## medic417

abckidsmom said:


> I thought that was a top-secret female argument device.  What the heck?  The secret's out?



I guess it's time we pull chimpies man card.  How far back does that set evolution theory?:unsure:


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## tssemt2010

extremely unprofessional on both of your parts, one, he shouldnt have said that over the radio, and two you shouldnt have gone up to him while on scene and confronted him about it, that can wait for another time. time to put on the big boy pants, welcome to EMS


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## medicdan

Agreed ^. Ultimately, we're are working to provide care. If one vehicle can arrive to a scene faster and provide care more expediently, great. That leaves you available for other (perhaps more interesting) calls. If you ask yourself "What is in the patient's best interest?" you generally make the right calls. Was this patient a priority? Would the patient's condition change if you took an extra 30 seconds to drive safely to the scene and forgo a shouting match?

Perhaps your first mistake is assuming that you were closer to the call than the other ambulance. I presume your dispatchers have GPS on the rigs and know where everyone is in relation to the call locations. If the other crew was able to get to the call without lights or sirens in the same time as you with them, it's likely they were closer to start with, and you shouldn't have jumped it in the first place. 

In EMS, I promise there will always be more calls, it's not worth having a shouting match on public frequencies or in the streets to fight over them.


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## BLS Systems Limited

Well, from here it sounds like an incredible lack of teamwork in a profession where that's the death knell for the company.  As Mycrofft stated above, its bad business.  If I was the owner of the company, I would tell you to cool your jets (unless you really needed that call for QA purposes or some other professional reason), but I would definitely reprimand your colleague for airing unnecessary comments about the company.


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## NomadicMedic

If I was the supe, you'd both get a written warning and if possible, I'd be happy to give you both an unpaid vacation. 

Grow up and act like professionals.


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## firetender

medicnick83 said:


> Now the issue I have here is...
> 
> Why did he do that, that was uncalled for - however, he is known for doing this and other things to people, he will steal calls, dodge certain calls etc but since we are a volunteer ambulance on shift, why did he have to go and say that over the radio?


 
He'll steal calls? That's kind of like jumping, isn't it? I mean, really, what was the real difference in distance/time between you and he? And, as is plastered all over the site, how much difference would that possibly make to patient outcome?

He said what he said for the same reason you behaved the way you did. In this instance, you're both cut from the same cloth.

Learn from it.


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## usafmedic45

> Time for both of you to grow up



What he said.  Increasing your medication dosage might also help.


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## Seijou

usafmedic45 said:


> What he said.  Increasing your medication dosage might also help.



Honestly, I don't think any of this "grow up...", "you're getting written up and unpaid vacation" stuff is helping. I think it's a bit ridiculous that someone is sincerely asking you all for advice, but some of the responses given are the most unprofessional I've heard in a while. 

medicnick83, I feel that this really wasn't your fault, but how you respond IS in your control. If the other guy probably gets quite a kick from acting like a jerk. The hardest thing for me to do is to overcome that, and still maintain professionalism regardless of what he/she says.


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## medic417

Nope time to grow up is the final answer.  This petty whine and cry crap needs to stop.  And if you made a decision that one person was right when only hearing one persons side really tells me you need to grow up as well.


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## Seijou

medic417 said:


> Nope time to grow up is the final answer.  This petty whine and cry crap needs to stop.  And if you made a decision that one person was right when only hearing one persons side really tells me you need to grow up as well.



He didn't ask for an answer. He asked for comments, suggestions, thoughts. 

If you don't like the "whine and cry" then don't read the thread and don't respond to it, that's simple enough... right? 

What "decision" did I make? There is no decision TO be made, I stated an opinion and that can be taken for what it's worth. 

I need to grow up as well? I guess you've just got tons of solutions here. Thanks for your fantastic input!


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## NomadicMedic

Nope. The OP asked for thoughts. And my thought is both of them behaved like petulant children. The OP seems to believe he was in the right. I believe that both were wrong, both deserve a written reprimand and a few days off. 

Those are my thoughts, and I'll bet most of the other folks on the forum will agree.


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## Seijou

n7lxi said:


> Nope. The OP asked for thoughts. And my thought is both of them behaved like petulant children. The OP seems to believe he was in the right. I believe that both were wrong, both deserve a written reprimand and a few days off.
> 
> Those are my thoughts, and I'll bet most of the other folks on the forum will agree.



You already posted this. No need to keep saying the same thing over and over, but unlike your comments, others have actually left constructive feedback for the OP.


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## Sasha

Seijou said:


> Honestly, I don't think any of this "grow up...", "you're getting written up and unpaid vacation" stuff is helping. I think it's a bit ridiculous that someone is sincerely asking you all for advice, but some of the responses given are the most unprofessional I've heard in a while.
> 
> medicnick83, I feel that this really wasn't your fault, but how you respond IS in your control. If the other guy probably gets quite a kick from acting like a jerk. The hardest thing for me to do is to overcome that, and still maintain professionalism regardless of what he/she says.



Grow up is completely sound advice, probably the most useful the poster has gotten. 

When you grow up you learn when and where to pick your battles and you figure out that on scene is NOT the place to do it even if it felt good at the time.

I'll admit, I'm still learning that.


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## medic417

medic417 said:


> Nope time to grow up is the final answer.  This petty whine and cry crap needs to stop.  And if you made a decision that one person was right when only hearing one persons side really tells me you need to grow up as well.



Since the above accurate post drew a penalty card I will try and put it in a more positive way.  

Both party's, based solely on the story of one person, acted extremely unprofessional and immature, if information provided is accurate. It is also unprofessional and immature to choose sides but it is even more unprofessional and immature to choose sides based on the statements of just one of the parties involved.  So my cordial yet sage advice to those much younger than me is to become more professional and work on your maturity levels.  The job is not about you and your ego it is about the well being of the patient.


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## Seijou

medic417 said:


> Since the above accurate post drew a penalty card I will try and put it in a more positive way.
> 
> Both party's, based solely on the story of one person, acted extremely unprofessional and immature, if information provided is accurate.



This has already been mentioned in the discussion many times...



medic417 said:


> It is also unprofessional and immature to choose sides but it is even more unprofessional and immature to choose sides based on the statements of just one of the parties involved.



If, and this is "if" you were referring to me. Since your last post you told me to grow up for picking sides.

Read what I wrote: 


Seijou said:


> medicnick83, I feel that this really wasn't your fault, but how you respond IS in your control.



I empathize with the OP. If you read what I originally wrote and think I picked sides, then you're interpretation is not what I wanted to get across. The sides don't matter to me in this situation. And even in my own experiences, there have been many a times where I've had to deal with supervisors who I could not communicate effectively with. In those instances, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and if I'm right, then I'm still wrong. What's important to me, here, is that one learns to deal with these situations regardless of whether it's a big deal or a small deal, and to maintain your professionalism. So, please, get over the whole picking sides thing. It matters not. 

Speaking of of professionalism, I find it interesting that you would be one of those people in this thread who is telling others that they are being immature and not acting professional, when your posts and general attitude have been negative.

The reason for my tone in my first post here were due to responses, such as this:
"





usafmedic45 said:


> What he said.  Increasing your medication dosage might also help.





Sasha said:


> Grow up is completely sound advice, probably the most useful the poster has gotten.
> 
> When you grow up you learn when and where to pick your battles and you figure out that on scene is NOT the place to do it even if it felt good at the time.
> 
> I'll admit, I'm still learning that.



Sasha, I would wholeheartedly agree, as with a lot of the others who posted here and had good advice as well.


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## medic417

Seijou said:


> medicnick83, I feel that this really wasn't your fault,





Seijou said:


> If you read what I originally wrote and think I picked sides, then you're interpretation is not what I wanted to get across.



How could that statement not be taken as you taking his side?  When you say not your fault you just put the blame on the other person.


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## Seijou

If you read the *entire* statement. I mean that it wasn't his fault that the other person chose to say those things over the radio, BUT how he reacts is totally in his control (and therefore, his responsibility).



Seijou said:


> medicnick83, I feel that this really wasn't your fault, but how you respond IS in your control.


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## medic417

Seijou said:


> If you read the *entire* statement. I mean that it wasn't his fault that the other person chose to say those things over the radio, BUT how he reacts is totally in his control (and therefore, his responsibility).



Again you took his side.  W/O proof you condemned another person.  Next time try to stay neutral with something like if something like you describe actually did occur...........Then throw in your remainder of response about being in control of own actions................

See no side taken.  No approval or condemnation of the person not here to defend self.


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## Seijou

medic417 said:


> Again you took his side.  W/O proof you condemned another person.  Next time try to stay neutral with something like if something like you describe actually did occur...........Then throw in your remainder of response about being in control of own actions................
> 
> See no side taken.  No approval or condemnation of the person not here to defend self.



Seriously? Again with the whole picking sides thing? Maybe you aren't reading because I keep saying the sides don't matter as much as *dealing with the situation*. However, since you keep bringing it up:

OP recalls doing nothing which might have to started this whole dilemma, I don't have the other dude's testimony so... from what I see it's not the OP's fault the other dude was giving him a hard time. Have I been pressing this or something? have I been jumping up and down saying "It's not the OP's fault! Come on!"

Absolutely not, I've said again and again that my concern is how he dealt with the situation. So again, please stop giving a crap about picking sides. 

As for condemning other other dude, how in the world did I do that?

Did I say it was the other dude's fault? Did I say the other dude was in the wrong and that Mr. OP was in the right?


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## Aidey

Seijou said:


> OP recalls doing nothing which might have to started this whole dilemma, I don't have the other dude's testimony so... from what I see it's not the OP's fault the other dude was giving him a hard time. Have I been pressing this or something? have I been jumping up and down saying "It's not the OP's fault! Come on!"






medicnick83 said:


> The call came in for a MVA, truck and bike - 2 patients and *the address was given to another ambulance*, since *we figured we were closer to the call, we asked if we could goto the call instead *(this  would've been our first call for the shift so we were keen to do it)  the call was then given to us and the other ambulance was stood down.
> 
> We headed in the direction, but because of traffic, we ended up having  to take a slightly longer route (but we talking +20 seconds) onto the  time.
> 
> *But the ambulance that was stood down, headed to the call anyways* (we expected that to happen as we know the ambulance crew)




The OP jumped the call first, which may have prompted the radio comment.


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## Seijou

Aidey said:


> The OP jumped the call first, which may have prompted the radio comment.



Gotcha.


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## firetender

I'm pleased the bickering is over and now hope there's room for medicnick83 to say something more, if he so chooses. Otherwise, this thread will have run its course and will be closed.


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## Remeber343

On a different note, I'm just curious, you only have 1 ambulance respond to a 2 Patient call?


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## medic417

Remeber343 said:


> On a different note, I'm just curious, you only have 1 ambulance respond to a 2 Patient call?



Thats real world.  We do that all the time.  Why?  Because normally only ambulance and also why pull second ambulance out of service when we have plenty of room and supplies to take care of more than 2 patients.


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## medic417

Seijou said:


> Seriously? Again with the whole picking sides thing? Maybe you aren't reading because I keep saying the sides don't matter as much as *dealing with the situation*. However, since you keep bringing it up:
> 
> OP recalls doing nothing which might have to started this whole dilemma, I don't have the other dude's testimony so... from what I see it's not the OP's fault the other dude was giving him a hard time. Have I been pressing this or something? have I been jumping up and down saying "It's not the OP's fault! Come on!"
> 
> Absolutely not, I've said again and again that my concern is how he dealt with the situation. So again, please stop giving a crap about picking sides.
> 
> As for condemning other other dude, how in the world did I do that?
> 
> Did I say it was the other dude's fault? Did I say the other dude was in the wrong and that Mr. OP was in the right?



Actually by agreeing with OP w/o getting all facts you have in a sense condemned the other person.  You have by doing that taken sides.  As pointed out in another post you could educate while remaining neutral.


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## Remeber343

Why do you ask yourself a question before giving an answer to your question haha. I was just curious. What if they were both critical?  Makes more sense to have them rolling your way. You can always cancel them.


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## Bosco578

medic417 said:


> Time for both of you to grow up.


 
:beerchug:  +5


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## firetender

*sorry, folks*



firetender said:


> I'm pleased the bickering is over and now hope there's room for medicnick83 to say something more, if he so chooses. Otherwise, this thread will have run its course and will be closed.


 
thread closed


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