# no time for standard school?



## troymclure (Feb 4, 2013)

ive decided to become an emt, and eventually possibly a paramedic.

due to my job im not able to do standard classes(im on call to work off shore in the gulf of mexico 1-30 days at a time with as few as 3hrs notice).

all of the classroom type classes around here take 3 months or so, just a few hours a few times a week.

to take these type of classes i would need to take 3 months off of work. as ill already be taking a 60%+ pay cut to be an emt that isnt going to be possible.

my questions has anybody had any experience with online emt-b courses such as emtfiretraining . com or trainingdivision . com(top google searches).

ive already contacted the local places of employment and all they care about is having proper certification, as "most important training takes place on the job".


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## CFal (Feb 4, 2013)

you can take a 3-4 week shake and bake full time class


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## troymclure (Feb 4, 2013)

ive seen the 2 week boot camp for $4k, got links to anything different?


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## CFal (Feb 4, 2013)

http://www.remotemedical.com/wilderness-medicine-training/Wilderness-EMT-WEMT

http://www.nols.edu/wmi/courses/wemt.shtml

http://www.soloschools.com/index.cfm?event=course.wemt


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## troymclure (Feb 4, 2013)

thanks. prolly be cheaper in the long run with the 2 week boot camp.


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## hogwiley (Feb 5, 2013)

I would steer clear of any EMT mill that claims they can spit out a competent EMT in a few short weeks.

If you just want to take an EMT class for personal enrichment, fine. But if you plan on actually becoming licensed and working in the field, I would look at a normal 4 or 5 month EMT course that gives you time to study and absorb everything, become proficient at skills like vital signs and patient assessment, and gives you some clinical experience.

This is assuming you arent already some other medical professional like a licensed RN, and that you are starting from scratch with no medical education or experience.


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## Tigger (Feb 5, 2013)

Every class no matter the format will meet state requirements for hours and clinical time. 

Whether or not you are the type of the student that can absorb everything in the course of a few weeks is something only you can really decide. 

A two or three weeks is not inherently inferior to a semester long program. The content will be the same. It is just whether or not the student is capable of effectively processing and retaining the information at that sort of rate.

Every one of my undergrad classes (except the semester abroad) has been taught in three and a half weeks. Each class is taught individually, so in theory I can focus all my time on that (hahaha). It has worked for me. It may not work for you, but do not discount it as an effective model.


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## EpiEMS (Feb 5, 2013)

I took SOLO's EMT/WEMT in a month. Fabulous course. Really well instructed.


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## troymclure (Feb 5, 2013)

ive taken combat lifesaver course 2x in the army, and used  a bit of that training in iraq. 

and i know i can absorb the info faster than 10hrs a week.


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## hogwiley (Feb 5, 2013)

Some may be able to absorb the information and retain it in that short of time, but from what Ive seen its very few. The last couple EMT classes Ive helped out with had students that took a LONG time, as in months, to become proficient at some of this stuff, and it took lots of practice sessions and the instructor giving them lots of homework to make sure they read, understood, and in some cases memorized what was in the book. Some of them were veterans and had taken a combat life saver course while they were in. They didnt do any better than anyone else and probably a little worse, maybe because they had an inflated view of their abilities and didnt study enough. 

Im not trying to be snotty, but we arent talking about nursing students here, who already passed hard math and science classes like chemistry, Physics and A&P and had a 3.5 GPA or better. Many EMT students from what Ive seen barely graduated from high school.


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## griffithsgriffin (Feb 5, 2013)

shot in the dark here: do such programs exist for paramedic course? Either condensed programs or online learning. I thought it was worth it to ask.


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## hogwiley (Feb 5, 2013)

Another example of why it seems ridiculous to have a 2 week EMT course.

Some community colleges are now breaking EMT up into 2 semesters. Thats an 8 MONTH EMT class. The local community college around me does it that way. They also require 2 semester A&P, Intermediate Algebra, English comp, and a minimum score on the science portion of the ACT before you can be accepted into their Paramedic program. 

So something is wrong when you have community colleges with respected, accredited EMS programs saying it takes 8 plus months to produce a competent EMT, and some school that says they can do it in 2 to 3 weeks.


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## VFlutter (Feb 5, 2013)




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## troymclure (Feb 5, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Another example of why it seems ridiculous to have a 2 week EMT course.
> 
> Some community colleges are now breaking EMT up into 2 semesters. Thats an 8 MONTH EMT class. The local community college around me does it that way. They also require 2 semester A&P, Intermediate Algebra, English comp, and a minimum score on the science portion of the ACT before you can be accepted into their Paramedic program.
> 
> So something is wrong when you have community colleges with respected, accredited EMS programs saying it takes 8 plus months to produce a competent EMT, and some school that says they can do it in 2 to 3 weeks.



250 hours is 250 hours. what improvement on training would having 1 class a week be over 1 class a day?

ucla centers for prehospital care offers a 3 week course, 7 hours a day. are you saying that your community colleges are better because they make you pay thru 2 semesters?


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## Tigger (Feb 5, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Another example of why it seems ridiculous to have a 2 week EMT course.
> 
> Some community colleges are now breaking EMT up into 2 semesters. Thats an 8 MONTH EMT class. The local community college around me does it that way. They also require 2 semester A&P, Intermediate Algebra, English comp, and a minimum score on the science portion of the ACT before you can be accepted into their Paramedic program.
> 
> So something is wrong when you have community colleges with respected, accredited EMS programs saying it takes 8 plus months to produce a competent EMT, and some school that says they can do it in 2 to 3 weeks.



The plural of anecdote is not data. One or a few schools may do it that way, but that doesn't make them right, even if they are "respected." Often times a respected school doesn't really provide all that great of education, but since everyone that goes there thinks that they are the best, the reputation perpetuates itself.

There are actual studies regarding the efficacy of education models and they are rampant in the higher education world. Many majors at my college (taught on month long blocks) take standardized exit exams, which show no difference in performance as compared to schools with near identical curriculum taught on a semester plan. 

Having a few hours spread out of many does not mean the student will learn the material any better than someone else. In fact, giving students too much time between classes and assessments has been shown to be detrimental.

And personally, the idea of 8 month EMT class sounds horrifying, I cannot imagine a slower paced class. Successful education requires a solid foundation to be laid and then more advanced topics built on top. If you give students a week  between every topic, they're going to forget things and never really learn the whole picture.


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## hogwiley (Feb 5, 2013)

Im not saying 8 months isnt overkill for an EMT class, even though thats what some colleges are going to....only that 2 weeks is totally inadequate. If you are going to class 8 or 12 hours every day, when are you going to have time to read your book and study, or practice? 

How long do you really think your brain is going to be able to take hours of the same topics before it begins to wander? As dumbed down as the EMT curriculum might be, its still a LOT to learn and remember if you are starting from scratch. Thats why regardless of how many class hours you log, it makes sense to spread it out some instead of trying to cram it all in a few weeks. 

Look at how thick the text books are, you think someone of average intelligence is going to learn all that in 2 weeks? Yeah if all you were doing was learning skill stations, 2 weeks might be barely adequate(for some), but theres a bit more to it than that.


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## sweetpete (Feb 5, 2013)

FWIW....I got my fire cert through Training Division. They were awesome. I don't know about their EMS classes, but I heard those are pretty good too.

Hope this helps a little.

Take care


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## EpiEMS (Feb 5, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Some community colleges are now breaking EMT up into 2 semesters. Thats an 8 MONTH EMT class. The local community college around me does it that way. They also require 2 semester A&P, Intermediate Algebra, English comp, and a minimum score on the science portion of the ACT before you can be accepted into their Paramedic program.
> 
> So something is wrong when you have community colleges with respected, accredited EMS programs saying it takes 8 plus months to produce a competent EMT, and some school that says they can do it in 2 to 3 weeks.



There is no necessity for such a lengthy EMT course at the current level of practice. There is no way that any EMT course could truly justify 8 months of training - whether that be 3 credits, 6 credits, or whatever number. An EMT course could plausibly be considered a college level course, but certainly not an upper division course or anything of the sort.

If you want to judge it by anything, judge it by NREMT pass rates.

And the NREMT has data indicating that pass rates are strongly associated with baseline higher levels of education (viz. Studnek J, Margolis GS (2005). Educational Background Correlates to Success on the National Registry of EMTs Written Certification Examination. Poster presentation at the annual symposium of the National Association of EMS Educators.)


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## AtlasFlyer (Feb 5, 2013)

Pelham in Bloomington, Indiana has a two-week EMT class. 

I think a program like that can cover the necessary material. I've had several experiences with intense, short-term training programs that cram a lot of material into a short amount of time. What matters most after doing a program like that is getting out there and doing the job right away after completing the program. Skills can be learned quickly, but they'll fade pretty quickly too if not used right away. If you're going to do a program like that, get out there in the field and get to work right away, don't sit around not using the skills for months. 

Just my nickel's worth of free advice...


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## Tigger (Feb 5, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Im not saying 8 months isnt overkill for an EMT class, even though thats what some colleges are going to....only that 2 weeks is totally inadequate. If you are going to class 8 or 12 hours every day, when are you going to have time to read your book and study, or practice?
> 
> How long do you really think your brain is going to be able to take hours of the same topics before it begins to wander? As dumbed down as the EMT curriculum might be, its still a LOT to learn and remember if you are starting from scratch. Thats why regardless of how many class hours you log, it makes sense to spread it out some instead of trying to cram it all in a few weeks.
> 
> Look at how thick the text books are, you think someone of average intelligence is going to learn all that in 2 weeks? Yeah if all you were doing was learning skill stations, 2 weeks might be barely adequate(for some), but theres a bit more to it than that.



Yes, someone of average intelligence is absolutely capable of doing so. I'm surrounded by 2000 people everyday that excel at doing so. And I am not alone in that. It is a viable education model. The thing is that most people have never actually experienced it, so they are afraid of it or write it off as impossible. 

Until you have you know, tried something, maybe don't write it off as invalid?


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## troymclure (Apr 4, 2013)

well ive found a school, https://warriorschool.com/ . its the 21 day immersion  program. they are one of the few short schools that also accepts the mgib.


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## joshrunkle35 (Apr 5, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> I would steer clear of any EMT mill that claims they can spit out a competent EMT in a few short weeks.
> 
> If you just want to take an EMT class for personal enrichment, fine. But if you plan on actually becoming licensed and working in the field, I would look at a normal 4 or 5 month EMT course that gives you time to study and absorb everything, become proficient at skills like vital signs and patient assessment, and gives you some clinical experience.
> 
> This is assuming you arent already some other medical professional like a licensed RN, and that you are starting from scratch with no medical education or experience.



Exactly!

I had looked at taking my EMT-B in a faster format, also because of work constraints. I am a firearms instructor, and the company I worked for wanted me to get my EMT-B at the time, in case of emergency. As I didn't plan on working in EMS, I looked into the shorter schools. What I can say, quite honestly, it that the 3-4 month long class that's only a few nights a week, really includes an additional 4-6 hours of study every day and 12-24 hours of study every weekend. I don't know how you would study during a 3 week class. Even if you physically went to class and studied all night and didn't sleep for 3 weeks, there really still wouldn't be enough time to study. 

If you were a medic 10 years ago and you're returning, or you are a current RN, or you have worked as a first responder for 2-3 years and "seen everything", then, obviously, you wouldn't have to study the same, because you would know a lot of stuff the rest of us didn't know going through the first time.


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## Engineered (Apr 5, 2013)

I did the NOLS WMI course, and while it was challenging in both living conditions and the course material to get done in 3 weeks (standard EMT and Wilderness EMT) myself and about 90% of the class were able to pass the NREMT.  However, it was 3500 bucks, and did take me driving from Colorado to California, and back, and just for need of a respite, spending the weekends in a hotel in Fresno for my sanity, but if thats what your looking for, I would totally suggest it.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Apr 5, 2013)

Chase said:


>



hahaha this meme's really been making the rounds lately. :rofl:


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## Obstructions (Apr 7, 2013)

You could look into PERCOM. They offer a program that is almost exclusively online, and it relatively cheap. Education is excellent, and very progressive- all the teachers are amazing as well. So you could work on it at home and while on the rig.


PM me for more details. I'm currently finishing up my paramedic through them.


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## troymclure (Apr 8, 2013)

i start sunday at https://warriorschool.com/courses/medical-training/emt-b-immersion-program-21-days/ .


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## ExpatMedic0 (Apr 8, 2013)

troymclure said:


> i start sunday at https://warriorschool.com/courses/medical-training/emt-b-immersion-program-21-days/ .



wow only 3 weeks with a %90 success rate at NREMT. Let us know how it go's, goodluck


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## troymclure (Apr 8, 2013)

ExpatMedic0 said:


> wow only 3 weeks with a %90 success rate at NREMT. Let us know how it go's, goodluck



well technically its a month since clinicals/ridealongs are on the weekends.


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## troymclure (Apr 14, 2013)

well had our 0 day today, initial briefing and cpr course.

the instructor told us "you will have no outside life during this course"  and we would have 2-4 hours of homework(graded) every night.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Apr 15, 2013)

interesting, keep us up to date. I have never seen a program this fast paced before.


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## troymclure (Apr 15, 2013)

first day was good, very thorough and in-depth discussions of the material. about 2 hours of home work tonite.
there is a quiz or exam every day(except nremt prep, and nrempt practicals), and labs every other day.

its a bit tough for me as i havent sat in a classroom all day in 8 years(since dive school). i cant wait for the labs and ride-along's/clinical's.


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## troymclure (Apr 17, 2013)

there are 8 people in my class.

5 have at least 1 degree(3 have multiple).

2 have already taken other medical classes/courses and are planning on becoming pa/md.

2 are taking it for ff program.

1 for park ranger program.

1 is a gi, taking it for professional  development promotion points.

1 is a college drop out.

the gi and i are the only ones that havent spent the last few years in a classroom environment.

its tough, its been 8 years for me. and the dive school classroom stuff was pretty easy.


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## troymclure (Apr 19, 2013)

done with the first week. the first 3 days were tough. its a heavy workload and took a bit to get in rhythm. 

the course is well done. i am getting about a 92% average on the quizzes and exams. and better i seem to be retaining the info past the quiz/exam. lol


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## troymclure (Apr 27, 2013)

been busy. lol

the course is still pretty tough, but not as all-encompassing as the first week and half.

i have my first ride-along tomorrow with a local fire department. 

nervous but looking forward to it.


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## ExpatMedic0 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ya you must be getting close to completing everything by now?


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## troymclure (Apr 28, 2013)

pretty much at the 1/2 way point.


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## ExpatMedic0 (May 1, 2013)

Is this the program? http://www.ems1.com/ems-training/ar...s-Ariz-students-how-to-prepare-for-the-worst/


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## troymclure (May 2, 2013)

yea, she was a bit miffed at the closeup of her boobs. lol


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## troymclure (May 3, 2013)

1 week left.

i have my clinical in the er sunday, then 3 days of classes and 2 exams. then its nremt prep/then practical/and class finals.


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## teedubbyaw (May 4, 2013)

Good luck.


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## MackTheKnife (May 4, 2013)

troymclure said:


> 250 hours is 250 hours. what improvement on training would having 1 class a week be over 1 class a day?
> 
> ucla centers for prehospital care offers a 3 week course, 7 hours a day. are you saying that your community colleges are better because they make you pay thru 2 semesters?



Great point.


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## MackTheKnife (May 4, 2013)

joshrunkle35 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I had looked at taking my EMT-B in a faster format, also because of work constraints. I am a firearms instructor, and the company I worked for wanted me to get my EMT-B at the time, in case of emergency. As I didn't plan on working in EMS, I looked into the shorter schools. What I can say, quite honestly, it that the 3-4 month long class that's only a few nights a week, really includes an additional 4-6 hours of study every day and 12-24 hours of study every weekend. I don't know how you would study during a 3 week class. Even if you physically went to class and studied all night and didn't sleep for 3 weeks, there really still wouldn't be enough time to study.
> 
> If you were a medic 10 years ago and you're returning, or you are a current RN, or you have worked as a first responder for 2-3 years and "seen everything", then, obviously, you wouldn't have to study the same, because you would know a lot of stuff the rest of us didn't know going through the first time.



The Navy teaches EMT in three weeks. Classroom, practicals, tests. Not everyone passes but most do. There is plenty of time to study and the amount of time needed varies from student to student. Don't sell the short courses short!


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## Medic Tim (May 4, 2013)

It really depends on the person which program is best. As long as you have a basic understanding of A&P or have a few college classes under your belt, I can see them getting through the short program rather easily. Time management would also be key.
My basic was over a college semester and it was way too slow for my liking. I wish I could have done the 3-4 week "crash" course. Others in my class that had a degree or university experience felt the same way.


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## MackTheKnife (May 4, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> It really depends on the person which program is best. As long as you have a basic understanding of A&P or have a few college classes under your belt, I can see them getting through the short program rather easily. Time management would also be key.
> My basic was over a college semester and it was way too slow for my liking. I wish I could have done the 3-4 week "crash" course. Others in my class that had a degree or university experience felt the same way.



Agree with you. It depends on the person. I have always liked the fast courses (I actually enjoyed self-paced algebra!) and I don't need to study much.


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## troymclure (May 4, 2013)

like said above, you have to want to pass the course, if you go drink or "hang out" every night, you prolly wont do it. 

i study/homework 2-4 hours a night. 

with just 3 class days(and 2 exams +final)left  im at a 92%.

if you go in to this type of class with a "community college attitude", you will fail.


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## troymclure (May 6, 2013)

lost a guy today. he failed 2 exams.

he rarely paid attention in class, and was one of those guys that was a distraction.


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## teedubbyaw (May 9, 2013)

troymclure said:


> if you go in to this type of class with a "community college attitude", you will fail.



What is that suppose to mean?


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## DrankTheKoolaid (May 9, 2013)

If you already have a job to pay the bills why don't you join a volunteer FD and get your feet wet and some real time experience. 

From there jump into a 6 week EMT summer program if your comfortable enough. While you did the CLS in the Military little of it transitions into civilian EMS at the basic level.


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## troymclure (May 9, 2013)

trauma is trauma. opa is inserted the same, etc... lots of the same stuff.


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## troymclure (May 9, 2013)

teedubbyaw said:


> What is that suppose to mean?



if you want to party on the weekends, hang with friends, etc...


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## troymclure (May 9, 2013)

Corky said:


> If you already have a job to pay the bills why don't you join a volunteer FD and get your feet wet and some real time experience.
> 
> From there jump into a 6 week EMT summer program if your comfortable enough. While you did the CLS in the Military little of it transitions into civilian EMS at the basic level.



because my job would not allow me to do so.


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## troymclure (May 9, 2013)

nremt practicals tomorrow, and class finals.


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## ExpatMedic0 (May 10, 2013)

goodluck


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## Handsome Robb (May 10, 2013)

troymclure said:


> trauma is trauma. opa is inserted the same, etc... lots of the same stuff.



And trauma is the minority of what we deal with in EMS.


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## Handsome Robb (May 10, 2013)

troymclure said:


> trauma is trauma. opa is inserted the same, etc... lots of the same stuff.



And trauma is the minority of what we deal with in EMS.



troymclure said:


> nremt practicals tomorrow, and class finals.



Good luck!


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## troymclure (May 10, 2013)

Passed. Got the highest in my class by 1/2 % LOL. Averaged with a 94% I think.

Now to wait till Monday to schedule my nremt written exam.


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## troymclure (May 12, 2013)

nremt tomorrow at 8!


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## chaz90 (May 12, 2013)

Best of luck! Thanks for keeping us updated with your school process. Sounded like an interesting experience.


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## hogwiley (May 13, 2013)

Ill be real curious how the NREMT exam goes after a 3 week class.


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## troymclure (May 13, 2013)

74 questions, 29 mins.

it seemed pretty easy, the only type of question i had multiples of was ob.


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## Tigger (May 13, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Ill be real curious how the NREMT exam goes after a 3 week class.



Probably just fine considering that the OP finished with a 94 average and took the test immediately afterwards.


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## troymclure (May 14, 2013)

Passed.


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## Goose3201 (May 14, 2013)

*Woot!*



troymclure said:


> Passed.



Hey, just wanted to pass on a huge congratulations! I also wanted to tell you how much I've appreciated you sharing your experience with us.  

I've been watching this thread as I'm researching a couple different mid-life career paths...really do appreciate you sharing the info.

Todd


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## ExpatMedic0 (May 15, 2013)

yes Congrats and thanks for sharing the whole experience. Stay safe out there


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## troymclure (May 16, 2013)

just waiting to get my card so i can apply.


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## Unaguave (May 16, 2013)

hogwiley said:


> Another example of why it seems ridiculous to have a 2 week EMT course.
> 
> Some community colleges are now breaking EMT up into 2 semesters. Thats an 8 MONTH EMT class. The local community college around me does it that way. They also require 2 semester A&P, Intermediate Algebra, English comp, and a minimum score on the science portion of the ACT before you can be accepted into their Paramedic program.
> 
> So something is wrong when you have community colleges with respected, accredited EMS programs saying it takes 8 plus months to produce a competent EMT, and some school that says they can do it in 2 to 3 weeks.



Money, that's why it takes that long.  Why would anyone want to go into $10,000 worth of debt in student loans for a job that pays $10 - $12 an hour?  Because if someone went that far for that job only to realize they're glorified bus drivers then they'll realize they might as well go "all the way" and continue their education at the same institution, and what do you know all the credits they needed for that course carry on to a higher degree.


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## troymclure (May 16, 2013)

got my nremt card today. taking my application to the state office tomorrow for my state license.


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## ExpatMedic0 (May 17, 2013)

troymclure said:


> got my nremt card today. taking my application to the state office tomorrow for my state license.


It was interesting to watch this process and exciting to know it works. 




hogwiley said:


> Another example of why it seems ridiculous to have a 2 week EMT course.
> 
> Some community colleges are now breaking EMT up into 2 semesters. Thats an 8 MONTH EMT class. The local community college around me does it that way. They also require 2 semester A&P, Intermediate Algebra, English comp, and a minimum score on the science portion of the ACT before you can be accepted into their Paramedic program.
> 
> So something is wrong when you have community colleges with respected, accredited EMS programs saying it takes 8 plus months to produce a competent EMT, and some school that says they can do it in 2 to 3 weeks.


As long as the national standard for EMT is 150 clock hours, I see no reason to drag that time out 2 semesters. The solution is not dragging out a 150 hour EMT program 8-12 months long, its changing the national standards.


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## troymclure (May 21, 2013)

of the 7 that graduated 5 have taken and passed the nremt. 

one guy(the gi) said he may not take it, and nobody has heard from the other guy.


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## troymclure (May 23, 2013)

just got my state license. Louisiana took 3 days to process my application and reciprocity  paperwork.


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## troymclure (May 23, 2013)

The gi  is taking the tactical emt course before the nremt.


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## wailungisme (May 27, 2013)

How about internships, did you have to find your own?  
was it difficult to arrange?


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## troymclure (May 27, 2013)

nope, the clinicals were arranged thru the school, the instructor even arranged for one guy to work with the fd for 3 24hr shifts AFTER school was over.


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## troymclure (May 27, 2013)

i have an interview wed morning.


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## troymclure (May 27, 2013)

from 4-4(found the school), 4-14(start school) to 5-29(got my first interview) 55(45 since the first day of class) days, and a total of $3219.70 including gas, food, lodging, tuition, eating out, etc...


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## Lunah (May 27, 2013)

Congrats!


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## jrarnold243 (Jun 1, 2013)

griffithsgriffin said:


> shot in the dark here: do such programs exist for paramedic course? Either condensed programs or online learning. I thought it was worth it to ask.


UT Southwestern Medical School in Dallas offers a 6 month Paramedic course for about $6K


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## troymclure (Jun 10, 2013)

last update on this thread.

7 of 7 graduates in my class have passed the nremt. 2 are continuing to a fire academy, 2 are using it in their current medical jobs, the gi is using his to re-class to medic, one guy just got hired on with a small private ambulance co, and i have my final interview this week with a private ambulance co.


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