# Body Jewelry & defibrillators



## DrParasite (Oct 11, 2011)

I know it is a strange question, but do you need to modify placement of defibrillator pads for people with body piercings?  such as nipples, belly button, or any other creative place people can find to put a metal bar through?


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## JAMedic (Oct 11, 2011)

I wouldn't modify placement. Removal of the piercings is the best route. No matter where you would place the pads, the metal could redirect the electric current making it less effective. And if you modified where you placed the pads, it could end up being closer to the piercings, and either arc or create a burn to the pt.


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## Underoath87 (Oct 11, 2011)

DrParasite said:


> I know it is a strange question, but do you need to modify placement of defibrillator pads for people with body piercings?  such as *nipples, belly button*, or any other creative place people can find to put a metal bar through?



...
Defib pads aren't supposed to be placed over either nipple, or belly button.

And thankfully, most people who require them won't have "sexy" piercings anyway.
But if it did happen to me, I'd probably just yank it out and claim that I had no choice


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## the_negro_puppy (Oct 11, 2011)

Underoath87 said:


> ...
> Defib pads aren't supposed to be placed over either nipple, or belly button.
> 
> And thankfully, most people who require them won't have "sexy" piercings anyway.
> But if it did happen to me, I'd probably just yank it out and claim that I had no choice



This. AT the end opf the day, if you need to defibrillate a a pt, very minor caused by quick removal of jewellery will be the least of the pts worries.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 11, 2011)

JAMedic said:


> I wouldn't modify placement. Removal of the piercings is the best route. No matter where you would place the pads, the metal could redirect the electric current making it less effective. And if you modified where you placed the pads, it could end up being closer to the piercings, and either arc or create a burn to the pt.


Modification of placement (such as an anterior-posterior placement, which is more effective anyhow) would be a much quicker alternative than trying to remove the piercings.


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## JAMedic (Oct 11, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Modification of placement (such as an anterior-posterior placement, which is more effective anyhow) would be a much quicker alternative than trying to remove the piercings.



My point was even if you did move the pads the piercings would still be a conduction resulting in interruption of current.


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## mycrofft (Oct 11, 2011)

*ARC says move "pads" (read that "ELECTRODES") same as pacers etc.*

How does something "interrupt" electrical current except if it is an insulator?

OK. An isolated  small metal object like a piercing might have a slight arcing around it resulting in a burn. Something linear like a chain can do that and POSSIBLY, not likely, divert some currents' pathway. A chain going to ground (dangling to or very near the floor, say) could generate a much greater burn and possibly divert lots more current.

Weigh delay versus a possible burn. You likely will burn them around the edge of the ELECTRODES anyway, it's like a middling sunburn. Been there.

I tell my students not to take time to mess with it, excepting anything that will provide an attractive alternative for current to go to ground and not between "paddles" (I mean ELECTRODES).

Oh, except the exploding nitro patches. 



edit: just saw my unintentional pun. sign of mental illness.


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## Handsome Robb (Oct 11, 2011)

Most alternative piercing jewelry is made of stainless steel. Stainless steel is a poor conductor of electricity. I don't see it having a huge effect on the current or a big risk of burns from arcing current. Electricity takes the path of least resistance and passing through/arcing to the jewelry definitely does not meet that criteria.  I've been wrong before though.

I will say they are dead, if you do manage to bring them back, a burn from arcing current it is the least of their worries.... I know, "do no further harm" but still.


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## usafmedic45 (Oct 11, 2011)

JAMedic said:


> My point was even if you did move the pads the piercings would still be a conduction resulting in interruption of current.



Arcing isn't that serious of a problem with pads as it was with gel and paddles.  The old joke in cardiac arrest resuscitation research circles (in which I used to work) was that the reason why we used to start with 200J was just to guarantee removal of chest hair if the case needed it. Beyond that, you should not have a problem with contact.


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## epipusher (Oct 12, 2011)

I believe Mythbusters did an episode regarding this very issue. I'd post a link, but I'm lazy.


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## JAMedic (Oct 12, 2011)

epipusher said:


> I believe Mythbusters did an episode regarding this very issue. I'd post a link, but I'm lazy.



Thanks for enlightening me everyone  I was about to say I wanna do a "myth bust" on this.


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## systemet (Oct 12, 2011)

usafmedic45 said:


> Arcing isn't that serious of a problem with pads as it was with gel and paddles.  The old joke in cardiac arrest resuscitation research circles (in which I used to work) was that the reason why we used to start with 200J was just to guarantee removal of chest hair if the case needed it. Beyond that, you should not have a problem with contact.



It was also a good way to check if you'd remembered to gel the paddles.


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## mycrofft (Oct 12, 2011)

*NVRob, stainless will conduct electricity just fine.*

Maybe not as well as copper, but for the purposes of a defib, plenty well. My folks' charged fence wire wasn't copper and it never rusted...maybe had nickel in it.
By arcing I didn't mean Frankenstinian Jacob's Ladders and St Elmo's Fire. The result is, as I said, mostly like a sunburn. Any conductor on the surface will carry the current along the surface (not deep electrical burns), it is the linear dimension which can potentially redirect current. Even then, how much is diverted? Dunno. If short or coiled up (non-linear), the current ought to just pass on through.


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