# Anyone taken an accelerated EMT-P course?



## ammdancer1 (Jan 9, 2009)

I was just curious, if anyone has, what you thought of it?
i.e.:

Was the extra money/tuition spent worth it in your mind?
Did you feel prepared for your NREMT-P/State Examination?  And how long did you wait to take it??  Did you need to do any refresher/remedial work???
Is/was your primary endeavor at the point solely to be a paramedic?  (i.e. were you also balancing other academics around that time?  For example, if I were to take an accelerated course, it would probably be in the summer between spring and fall semesters of finishing an undergraduate degree.)
How long did you work as an EMT-B prior to the course?  (hour estimates would be nice )
Do you have any other previous healthcare experience?  (started a nursing program, ER tech, etc.?)

Just any general impressions/advice would be helpful and are appreciated... 
Also, if you'd like to list where you attended such a program (since they are a bit more rare in my estimation) that would be great too, but not particularly what I'm asking for.

Thanks! 

P.S.  I took my EMT-B as an accelerated course and really didn't have any problems with it, besides being tired at the end of 12hr days, lol.  (And having to wait 8 months to take my cognitive exam...) However, I know EMT-P programs are a wholeeeee 'nother ballpark.  From what I hear, I might even say a totally different game.


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## KEVD18 (Jan 9, 2009)

Popcorn - check
Beverage - check
Comfortable seating apparatus - check

all systems go for this one. proceed when ready./


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## Epi-do (Jan 9, 2009)

Scoot over and make room for one more, KEV.


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## mikie (Jan 9, 2009)

KEVD18 said:


> Popcorn - check
> Beverage - check
> Comfortable seating apparatus - check
> 
> all systems go for this one. proceed when ready./





Epi-do said:


> Scoot over and make room for one more, KEV.



Guys...it's a new user asking [in his/her mind] a honest question.  Wait a few posts before we start snaking down and having a brewski.


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## JPINFV (Jan 9, 2009)

What's your undergraduate degree in? Are you looking at paramedicine as the end point of your career prep or as a steping stone to a different career?


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## ammdancer1 (Jan 9, 2009)

Okay, okay guys.  Sorry!!!
I looked through the first five pages for similar posts, and didn't find any.  Guess I should have been a non-annoying forum user and used the search option... -_-

Still, I feel like some of my questions are still unanswered, at least in my specific situation.

I'm an athletic training, pre-PT and pre-med major at a major science and engineering university (it's rumored that our physics course required for pre-PT/med has the third highest fail rate of any course in the country... but anyway.)  As athletic training is a professional allied health field, I have taken two anatomy courses (introductory and clinical) as well as physiology, exercise physiology, two injury assessment courses (UE and LE), two semesters of chemistry and physics at the major-level, and have over 600 clinical hours logged half-way through my program.  Granted, I understand athletic training is NOT AT ALL emergency medicine.  Yes, it includes initial emergency management, but we're only expected to manage a patient until EMS arrives.  My point being, I feel like I have a decent academic background.  For a paramedic course, do you guys think so?

I'm not really sure what I'm looking for to be as paramedic.  I wouldn't consider it a stepping stone, but more of a "side-option." Okay, that makes it sound like a stepping stone... but here's where I'm at:  I'm leaning towards PT school at the moment (med school is just so daunting...), but I really love what I've seen of emergency medicine.  If I'm stuck in a clinic (as I likely will be, as my interests are pediatrics, dance medicine, and specific needs populations), I would like to work part-time with EMS -- or at least have the option to.  If I end up going to med school, my current thoughts are physiatry (look it up!) or emergency med/trauma surg.  If I do end up going the emergency med route, having experience as a paramedic I think would certainly give me a better understanding of the process as a whole.  Also, because I'm still undecided as a undergrad sophomore, I'm considering taking a year or two "off" to work before going to grad school -- either working as a graduate assistant athletic trainer and saving up some money, or as a paramedic/in EMS, to hopefully give me a better feeling and help me decide.

I feel that I'm a very self-motivated, dedicated learner.  I read textbooks for fun and watch surgeries online instead of TV (not joking...)  But I still don't know if an accelerated paramedic program is going to be adequate/too stressful/etc.  I'm used to long days (6am-11pm regularly, with maybe an hour break or two), but learning/retention/the brain in general is a tricky thing.  

I've heard very good things out of Pelham Training (formerly EMT Inc.) out of Bloomington, IN, and they have quite high exam pass rates.  This is where I took my accelerated EMT-B.  However, I _do_ realize that passing exams means little to nothing in being successful in a career.  

PHEW!  Okay, enough rambling.  Time to go buy more textbooks!  lol.
I understand the apprehension and real question of accelerated programs, but my main question is do you guys think it's EVER really adequate (even with supplemental clinical experiences, etc.?)  Can it be done _right_, even if by just a small percentage of students?

Thanks, and sorry for being an annoying newbie!


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## KEVD18 (Jan 9, 2009)

fine, i'll play nice. below, you will find the list of people i feel are candidates for rapid/accelerated/shake n bake paramedic school:

cen/ccrn's with at least 5 years critical care experience and service as an emt basic.
md/do's with an emergency or critical care specialty and service as an emt basic.
pa/np's with emergency or critical care experience and service as an emt basic.

n.b. students of any of the above disciplines dont qualify.

anybody else imnsho doesnt meet the requirements to rush through medic school. however, im not on the admissions board nor an i the one loaning you the money so my opinion is essentially irrelevant, except for the fact that you asked for it.


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## marineman (Jan 9, 2009)

I pretty much agree with Kevs list. What do you want to get out of school. If your willing to bust *** and study you can probably pass the exam at the end of the course. On the other hand chances are slim to none no matter how hard you study of being a competent medic at the end of the course. Your choice, I won't tell you what you can and can't do but if you think about what you're hoping to get out of school it will really help you figure out your answer.


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## Ridryder911 (Jan 10, 2009)

Take an accelerated Athletic Trainer course... oh, you can't ... why not? Oh, because they want quality and educated graduates? Get my point.  

Want to be in a profession then do it correctly or nothing at all. It will bite you in the end. With your basic science knowledge, it will be beneficial but not as many misinterpret "not complete".

R/r 911


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## pumper12fireman (Jan 10, 2009)

I was paging through my PHTLS book and came across a quote that caught my eye. I'll paraphrase- "Your patients did not choose you to be their care provider. YOU chose to care for THEM. They deserve your very best at all times."

In short, I believe this includes your education. If you really want to be a paramedic, you will strive to be the best patient care provider at all times. This includes your choice of education.


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## VentMedic (Jan 10, 2009)

Let's look at this from a slightly different angle. Right now the average Paramedic "training" is 900 hours with many states requiring less. Several require NO college prequisites. 

If you strip away the Paramedic school's version of watered down A&P and pharmacology, you basically have a few hours of class, lab and clinical time. The PHRN and MICN cert classes come up with approximately 150 hours of class time to learn what they may not have been exposed to in their college A&P and pharmacology classes. RRTs can also fast track through college Paramedic programs by using their other sciences. 

At least with that educational background and taking some type of Paramedic program, even if accelerated, is different than challenging the Paramedic exam which is what a few other healthcare professionals would do.

While many on this forum are striving to build up EMS as a profession, what we would like to see the minimum norm be and what it actually is are different points of view. Since EMS has not established higher standards across the board, it is difficult hold one poster to what we believe EMS should be while letting others with a whole lot less slide right on in through the same route or continue to be "trained" in the backrooms of FDs and ambulance stations.


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## Laur68EMT (Jan 10, 2009)

When I first started in EMS I was gung-ho to keep going. I had my eye on the next level before I was halfway through Basic. Now that I'm an EMT, I find myself much more concerned with practicing at my level and doing it well.  There's enough gaps in B level work to keep me busy for a while, and believe me when I say I devote a lot of extra time daily to studying, learning, CME's etc. I could not comfortably go to the next level without B level skills being second nature first.  Keep that horse in front of the cart. 

I don't think the word "accelerated" belongs anywhere in an EMS course or program.


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## ptemt (Jan 10, 2009)

KEVD18 said:


> fine, i'll play nice. below, you will find the list of people i feel are candidates for rapid/accelerated/shake n bake paramedic school:
> 
> cen/ccrn's with at least 5 years critical care experience and service as an emt basic.
> md/do's with an emergency or critical care specialty and service as an emt basic.
> ...




ammdancer1,

Kev makes a good point!  It is clearly illustrated by the results you attain when you have taken accelerated English and or typing classes.


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## VentMedic (Jan 10, 2009)

KEVD18 said:


> fine, i'll play nice. below, you will find the list of people i feel are candidates for rapid/accelerated/shake n bake paramedic school:
> 
> cen/ccrn's with at least 5 years critical care experience and service as an emt basic.
> md/do's with an emergency or critical care specialty and service as an emt basic.
> ...


 

The below information is to CHALLENGE the Paramedic exam without any type of Paramedic program accelerated or otherwise. Again, the word accelerated can be misleading since it can be and is done across this country by FDs and ambulance services to get more Paramedics on the trucks. The private schools may do it a little differently but the same concept is there. All that science stuff will just be skipped.

*A list of the states that allow other healthcare professionals to "test out" on the Paramedic exam.*

http://www.nasemso.org/NewsAndPublications/News/documents/NASEMSOsurvey051208.pdf


Examples:

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/paramedic/faq.asp

*California*


> 10. How do I become a paramedic if I am currently a MD, RN, MICN, or PA?
> 
> 
> In order to apply for a paramedic license, the following documentation must be submitted to the EMS Authority for review:
> ...


 
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/EMT-Paramedic/emt-lic-requirements.html#Initial
*FLORIDA*



> Health Professional Licensure - Florida licensed physician, dentist, or nurse may apply for certification as a paramedic and subsequently challenge the paramedic exam, provided he/she holds a Florida EMT certificate which is current and in good standing. You are required to submit a copy of your current Florida license or registration.


Florida may have recently added PAs.


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## VentMedic (Jan 10, 2009)

Let me continue this just a little further so I can get my plug in for higher education.

When your "training" is measured in "hours", the state doesn't care how long it took you to get those hours as long as they are met. 

An EMT cert may require 110 hours which could be done in 3 weeks, 3 months or a year. If there are no other pre or corequisites such as a college level A&P involved, it is still 110 hours regardless of the length of time it took to finish the class. 

The same for the Paramedic. Some states, like Florida, require only 700 hours to be a Paramedic. While there are many colleges that offer an Associates degree in Paramedicine, many still only do the 700 hours. For some, 70*1* hours of training/education is too long. Again, the state doesn't care how "long" it takes you to get the 700 hours. If you can get them finished in 3 - 6 months...great. You also have the option to stretch out the same 700 hours to 18 months. However, it is the same 700 hours regardless of if it was accelerated to shorten the time to get the 700 hours or if you spent only 2 hours per week in a classroom for the next 3 years. 

That is why the Paramedic should be an Associates degree to have a consistency in measuring "hours" for training and education. This would eliminate the 3 month wonders. It would also close the loop hole that allows other health care professionals to challenge the Paramedic exam if the wording changed to "Associates degree in Paramedine required to apply for the test".


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## KEVD18 (Jan 10, 2009)

ptemt said:


> ammdancer1,
> 
> Kev makes a good point! It is clearly illustrated by the results you attain when you have taken accelerated English and or typing classes.


 

ive read this about nine times now and am at a bit of a comprehension road block. is this a dig at me or the op?


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## Elliot (Jan 10, 2009)

there are many variables that play out. I think it's important to ask your self what kind of student are you. If you feel you can handle a large course load in a short amount of time, it maybe worthwhile.

just consider this:
 normal medic program (12 months where im from) will take away the majority of your free time. So, you can count on not having a life during the duration of a fast track program. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## javajunkie (Mar 2, 2009)

Okay, I've had enough accelerated-program bashing!  I should start this by saying that I was a accelerated EMT-B student at Pelham Training, and I thought the program was great!  I knew going into it that it would be an accelerated course, and made sure I was physically and mentally ready.  It is not the first accelerated course I've taken (that was an intensive two-week parachute rigging school to become an FAA Senior Rigger), and it was not the first time I've taken the EMT-B course (that was in college in 2001, and I let my cert lapse).

I can say with absolute certainty that everything that was covered in my "normal" program was also covered in the accelerated one, but it all made more sense because it built on stuff you'd learned and practiced the *day* before, not the week before, or just before winter break, or...  At the end of the class, we passed the same practicals I took in 2001, and a written test that was just as hard.  The class was smaller (only 9 in mine), and for skills practice we always had two instructors available, meaning I got a whole lot more hands on time than I did the first time around.

The downside is that if you have a bad day, it can really get in the way.  You have to be mature enough to be in class all day and then go home and study, and you may miss a bit for clinicals.  All in all, it's a good trade-off.

Interestingly, my husband is an experienced pilot and took all of his advanced ratings in an accelerated format.  We are both in agreement that for us, the accelerated program is the only way to go; we just learn better that way.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I passed my NR exam on the first try.


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## medic417 (Mar 2, 2009)

javajunkie said:


> Oh, and for what it's worth, I passed my NR exam on the first try.



Pass rate is no indicator of quality education.  I could train in a months time a group of 20 decent EMT's on the NR test and at least 16 would pass first attempt, possibly more.  Would I want these people to treat me or my family?  No.  Why?  Because they are trained for the test.  They were not educated in Medicine.   Honestly they would have no real idea what to do in the field as all they were taught to do is memeorize skills and a few points about drugs.   

The only way a excellerated program should exist is for real Medical Professionals like MD's, PA's, possibly RN's.  They have a true medical background to build with.


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## VentMedic (Mar 2, 2009)

javajunkie said:


> Okay, I've had enough accelerated-program bashing! I should start this by saying that I was a accelerated EMT-B student at Pelham Training, and I thought the program was great! I knew going into it that it would be an accelerated course, and made sure I was physically and mentally ready. It is not the first accelerated course I've taken (that was an intensive two-week parachute rigging school to become an FAA Senior Rigger), and it was not the first time I've taken the EMT-B course (that was in college in 2001, and I let my cert lapse).
> 
> I can say with absolute certainty that everything that was covered in my "normal" program was also covered in the accelerated one, but it all made more sense because it built on stuff you'd learned and practiced the *day* before, not the week before, or just before winter break, or... At the end of the class, we passed the same practicals I took in 2001, and a written test that was just as hard. The class was smaller (only 9 in mine), and for skills practice we always had two instructors available, meaning I got a whole lot more hands on time than I did the first time around.
> 
> ...


 
But, for education, you have nothing else to base how great an EMT-B program is in terms of educational value.

You have however enforced the fact that the EMT-B is still 110 hours of training regardless of how long or how short the class.


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## JPINFV (Mar 2, 2009)

javajunkie said:


> Okay, I've had enough accelerated-program bashing!



Open question to everyone who has ever used the term "bash." When did bashing become synonymous with criticize? 



> I should start this by saying that I was a accelerated EMT-B student at Pelham Training, and I thought the program was great!  I knew going into it that it would be an accelerated course, and made sure I was physically and mentally ready.  It is not the first accelerated course I've taken (that was an intensive two-week parachute rigging school to become an FAA Senior Rigger), and it was not the first time I've taken the EMT-B course (that was in college in 2001, and I let my cert lapse).


So you thought it was great, yet you've already gone through class once and, presumably, already have field experience? How exactly do you think you compare to the average student who goes for an accelerated course nationwide? 



> I can say with absolute certainty that everything that was covered in my "normal" program was also covered in the accelerated one, but it all made more sense because it built on stuff you'd learned and practiced the *day* before, not the week before, or just before winter break, or...  At the end of the class, we passed the same practicals I took in 2001, and a written test that was just as hard.  The class was smaller (only 9 in mine), and for skills practice we always had two instructors available, meaning I got a whole lot more hands on time than I did the first time around.



Well, gee wiz, I'm happy that everything was covered. After all, every EMT-B program still has the hit the same set minimum amount of topics in order to graduate students. It'll make no sense, for example, if one program omited the OB/Gyn section. How can you be sure that it was because of the temporal relationship and not because you've already been through an EMT-B course once. 


> The downside is that if you have a bad day, it can really get in the way.  You have to be mature enough to be in class all day and then go home and study, and you may miss a bit for clinicals.  All in all, it's a good trade-off.


So it's a good thing to trade clinicals off for an earlier end date? Why is this a good trade off? So I can be assured that every basic that passed the course would be ready from day one to handle any emergency as an EMT-B?

Furthermore, how can you be assured that every day will be a good day? We've all had bad days, and last time I checked, it wasn't like I got an email warning before my last bad day.




> Interestingly, my husband is an experienced pilot and took all of his advanced ratings in an accelerated format.  We are both in agreement that for us, the accelerated program is the only way to go; we just learn better that way.


Would you go to a physician who only took 2 and a half years to pass medical school?


> Oh, and for what it's worth, I passed my NR exam on the first try.



I passed both my NREMT exams (original and recert by exam tests) on the first test date while holding down full time undergrad and grad schedules. I didn't even study for the second one. Of course an untrained monkey has a good chance of passing the NREMT-B exam.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 2, 2009)

javajunkie said:


> Okay, I've had enough accelerated-program bashing!  I should start this by saying that I was a accelerated EMT-B student at Pelham Training, and I thought the program was great!  I knew going into it that it would be an accelerated course, and made sure I was physically and mentally ready.  It is not the first accelerated course I've taken (that was an intensive two-week parachute rigging school to become an FAA Senior Rigger), and it was not the first time I've taken the EMT-B course (that was in college in 2001, and I let my cert lapse).
> 
> I can say with absolute certainty that everything that was covered in my "normal" program was also covered in the accelerated one, but it all made more sense because it built on stuff you'd learned and practiced the *day* before, not the week before, or just before winter break, or...  At the end of the class, we passed the same practicals I took in 2001, and a written test that was just as hard.  The class was smaller (only 9 in mine), and for skills practice we always had two instructors available, meaning I got a whole lot more hands on time than I did the first time around.
> 
> ...



So how many times does one have to take the EMT course for it to become easy?  So really it was more of a refresher than a true EMT course. It should had been easy, hell you should had been able to whiz right through it. 

So you went through an advanced first aid class in a reduced time. You studied out of one textbook & that itself was written at a 6'th grade level. Well, so far you have not impressed me. 

There are some courses that one can rush through.. sociology, history, mathematics, etc. Medical care and flying; both were lives are at stake is some exceptions. I would not trust either one of you.

R/r 911


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## mxjagracer (Mar 3, 2009)

I took all of my classes accelerated (EMT-B, EMT-P, and FF I & II), at forty hours a week. I believe my medic class took a total of six months. If you still live at home with your parents like I did, Its GREAT!!! Just no life for six months. 100 pages + of reading per night. If you retain information pretty easy, I would say go for it. Yea, its definitely a challenge. But if you think you can handle it, I say go for it. It also depends on the ability of your instructors for your academy though too. But, for that matter, a crappy instructor at three hours a week wont do you any good either....


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 3, 2009)

mxjagracer said:


> I took all of my classes accelerated (EMT-B, EMT-P, and FF I & II), at forty hours a week. I believe my medic class took a total of six months. If you still live at home with your parents like I did, Its GREAT!!! Just no life for six months. 100 pages + of reading per night. If you retain information pretty easy, I would say go for it. Yea, its definitely a challenge. But if you think you can handle it, I say go for it. It also depends on the ability of your instructors for your academy though too. But, for that matter, a crappy instructor at three hours a week wont do you any good either....



So how much did you really comprehend? How much lab time and clinical time did you perform? 
There is a reason medical school is over three years after traditional grad. Yes, it could be probably reduced to one.. but which one would you want? 

R/r 911


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them. I have checked into a lot of the colleges around here, and they all require around the same amount of clinical hours as the fast tracks, give or take an hour or two. Granted, if you are not self motivated, and you cannot learn things without being told what to read and what to study, then THIS COURSE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!


Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields. Same amount of time required, same amount of hours, same test for everyone in the end. If you can get it all down by the time you take your NRemt exam, then you got it. If not, then you dont.
I busted my $@3 in my program, and for the last year, Ive done nothing but study, read, do clinicals, work my normal shifts, and study more, and I must have done something right to get it on the first try. Im extremely proud of myself that I had it in me to get through this. It was a lot of VERY HARD WORK. I think you know in your heart whether or not this is right for you. Dont look to everyone on a forum to make your decision, or look to them for approval. You will be very disappointed more often than not.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> There are some courses that one can rush through.. sociology, history, mathematics, etc. Medical care and flying; both were lives are at stake is some exceptions. I would not trust either one of you.
> 
> R/r 911





And unfortunately Rid,,, you are not the one who gets to decide who comes to your rescue, or what kind of education they will have. The state does, and I bet that if they didnt feel that the "min. requirements" would sufice, then I dont think they would leave them at that. Get over yourself already.


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## wehttam (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields.



Congrats on passing the emt P exams, but its really sad when all you can think about is just gaining the min requirements.I do hope that the new rules/requirements will help this profession.

i do agree with some of the forum members, i certainly wouldnt want someone with three months of paramedic training to do anything for me but then again u made a valid point as well u dont choose who will rescue you. No wonder this profession will NEVER GET ANY BETTER AND WILL ALWAYS BE LOOKED DOWN UPON no worthy standards hope we take a page out of nursing one of these days.

p.s 
the three month statement was not directed to you but there are programs out there that is that short


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them.


I went to a "fast track" program, although not as "fast" as yours.  And I used to believe just as you do.  I didn't think I needed all that book learnin' just to start IVs and drop tubes.  My patch was as red as everyone else's.  I could not possibly have been more wrong.

The state sets only the absolute bare minimum of contact hours.  That is exactly what your program (and the one I attended) meets.  They typical associates degree program at least doubles those hours (for that matter, so do most college based EMT programs).  That is twice the education.  Then you add in the foundation of thirty hours of physical and social sciences upon which all that practice is based, and the education is quadrupled.  The result is a practitioner that is four times as qualified as a fast track tech medic.  It's simple, indisputable math.

You will never hear a medic -- or any other healthcare professional, like a nurse, RT, PT, or even x-ray tech -- who actually has that education saying that they didn't need all that A&P and Microbiology, and Chemistry, and Psychology to be a good practitioner.  The only people you hear saying that are those that don't have it.  What does that tell you?  The truth is, unless you have received that extra education, you simply are not qualified to determine if you really needed it or not.  You don't know what you don't know.  And neither did I. 

My fast track was exactly thirty years ago this year, and it was the exact same hours as your class this year.  Although the curriculum content has increased substantially in the last three decades, with a lot more information now being required, they are still teaching it in one-third the time it takes to train a barber, and half the time it takes to train a nail technician.  Do you really think that can be done without sacrificing a great deal of important information?  Again, do the math.

Just like me, if you ever actually go back and get the scientific foundational courses that you should have gotten as prerequisites, you'll quickly realize just how much you do not know, and you'll suddenly be even less confident than you are now, realizing that your current practice is just a technical shell of the profession it represents.  If you're as smart as I think you are, you'll realize how you are fooling yourself with this current line of thinking, and just like me, you'll wish you had done it before paramedic school, not as an after thought.

Saying you missed nothing by taking a fast track course is like saying a mechanic doesn't need to know anything about internal combustion and hydraulics so long as he is taught to change oil and spark plugs.  By choosing a 600 hour course, you missed out on the entire scientific foundation of your practice, and to those with a greater education, it will show in your practice.  The difference in critical thinking and diagnostic skills between the two practitioners is just that obvious.

An accelerated course may be the same length in hours as many other tech schools that are dragged out over a year.  And it may not be significantly superior to some of the poorer associates degree programs that have an inadequate prerequisite list and bad instructors.  There are a lot of cheesy degree programs out there, with a horrible course plan, for sure.  But not all patches are created equal, no matter how badly we want to think so.  You may be able to put your "skills" up against any other, but that's where the comparison stops.  *And being a great paramedic is not about being better than the next guy.  It is about being the best that YOU can possibly be.*  And right now, you are not nearly as good as you would have been with four times the education.  Your level of professional understanding is much, much less than it would have been with a better educational preparation.  More education = more understanding.  More understanding = better practitioner.  Period.

The sad thing is that most people who attend the accelerated programs are the people who should not be doing so.  They aren't well educated or transitioning healthcare professionals.  They are people who are simply in a hurry to get a patch as soon as possible so they can get a fire job.  More than half the time, they don't even really want to be a paramedic.  And even those that do are generally just looking for a shortcut to glory because they either don't understand that more education = better education, or else they simply fear an educational commitment.

All that said, I am not opposed to the accelerated concept.  I actually often recommend accelerated paramedic courses to those inquiring.  As someone already mentioned, such accelerated courses are recommended for transitioning other healthcare professionals (nurses, RTs, PTs, MTs, corpsmen, etc...) who already hold a solid foundation of prerequisite physical and social sciences (A&P, Microbiology, Psychology, Sociology).  Those are the people who can take a purely technical training approach to paramedicine and easily translate it into a competent, professional practice.  Someone with a biological degree, step to the head of the class and go straight to an accelerated course.  You'll do fine.  But for the average high school grad with no foundation, I simply cannot recommend any accelerated course.  The results are the type of practitioners that hold us back in the 1970s.  Don't make the same mistake that I did (although, in my own embarrassed defense, I didn't choose the school.  It's where the FD sent everyone).

Sure, most anyone can cram, squeak through a standardized test written at the 8th grade level, and sew on a patch.  The Houston Fire Department proves that every day.  But no, don't fool yourself into believing that the medic that is produced by that process is anywhere near the quality that s/he should be or would be with greater educational effort.


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> And unfortunately Rid,,, you are not the one who gets to decide who comes to your rescue, or what kind of education they will have. The state does, and I bet that if they didnt feel that the "min. requirements" would sufice, then I dont think they would leave them at that. Get over yourself already.



So your saying that it is okay that state's only imply what is safe? (Actually it is the NHTSA curriculum, not the state, so your even ignorant on the basics of EMS education; so how smart are you really?) 

Minimum requirements means .. safe enough; hopefully not to kill someone. 

So your proud of your training? So how does it feel that beautician went to school longer to cut & dye your hair than you did to medically treat someone? Better yet, little Johnny & Mary kindergarten teacher went an additional three times longer, just to be sure they could color within the lines? Yeah.. I'll would trust you, just because you now passed a test! Not.

You can't rush some things. It takes time to absorb and then perform clinical skills. It takes time to see the clinical application of this knowledge & learn to apply this. This should not be done after one has recieved their cert and patch but prior while their a student. 

Amazing it was not that long ago; you doubted yourself and capabilities. Now, you passed let's be sure not to become overwhelmed with over self confidence upon this.  

Even attempting to make such arguements displays ignorance of the profession you chose.


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## karaya (Mar 6, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> Medical care and flying; both were lives are at stake is some exceptions.
> R/r 911


 
Just like EMS, getting your pilots license is all by the hours.  Do you know how many accelerated flying schools there are out there?  I know guys who got their single engine land ticket in just two weeks from an accelerated school.  My flight instructor, who now flys for American Airlines, went and obtained his ATP ticket in one year from an accelerated school!  He was then hired by TWA (before being acquired by American) and went through a six month program to fly turbo props before being bumped up to MD-80s.

My point is that it took the X minimum hours to demonstrate and test proficiency in getting a license (just as in EMS), but many more hours of of flying experience is required to be hired by major airlines.

However, along with experience, education is still paramount.  There are a lot of dead 3000, 6000 and 9000 hour plus pilots who with all their experience, overlooked an extremley basic fundamental that was taught in the same basic ground school program I went through.

So the next time you fly on an airline, your pilots just might be graduates of an accelerated flying school!

BTW... I did not go through an accelerated flying school.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 6, 2009)

karaya said:


> My flight instructor, who now flys for American Airlines, went and obtained his ATP ticket in one year from an accelerated school!  He was then hired by TWA (before being acquired by American) and went through a six month program to fly turbo props before being bumped up to MD-80s.
> 
> My point is that it took the X minimum hours to demonstrate and test proficiency in getting a license (just as in EMS), but many more hours of of flying experience is required to be hired by major airlines.


Two problems here.  First, you're comparing education to experience, which are two completely different issues, and should not be confused.  Second, regardless of the career path that your instructor took, he would have been a better pilot if he had gone Embry-Riddle instead of a series of accelerated courses.  That is the whole point of this thread.


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## Sasha (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them. I have checked into a lot of the colleges around here, and they all require around the same amount of clinical hours as the fast tracks, give or take an hour or two. Granted, if you are not self motivated, and you cannot learn things without being told what to read and what to study, then THIS COURSE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields. Same amount of time required, same amount of hours, same test for everyone in the end. If you can get it all down by the time you take your NRemt exam, then you got it. If not, then you dont.
> I busted my $@3 in my program, and for the last year, Ive done nothing but study, read, do clinicals, work my normal shifts, and study more, and I must have done something right to get it on the first try. Im extremely proud of myself that I had it in me to get through this. It was a lot of VERY HARD WORK. I think you know in your heart whether or not this is right for you. Dont look to everyone on a forum to make your decision, or look to them for approval. You will be very disappointed more often than not.





I was just like you when I first started to float around on this forum. I thought hey, minimum standards are set in place for a reason, and if I can meet them, when I'm a medic and as good as anyone else. We all pass the same test.

I had my epiphany, and if you're any kind of good medic, you will too. You will realize how much education it takes to really be a paramedic. You gotta know the whys and hows of the human body, the cells, and the drugs before you can hope to be an effective paramedic.

The fact that you felt it necessary to take the cram school even despite asking advice and getting a resounding "No" says, to me, at least that you were not confident in your 10 week training to pass the test. Maybe you had the smarts to pass the test on your own, but we'll never know since you took the cram class.


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## VentMedic (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> I did a fast track program, and *I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years*. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them. I have checked into a lot of the colleges around here, and they all require around the same amount of clinical hours as the fast tracks, give or take an hour or two. Granted, if you are not self motivated, and you cannot learn things without being told what to read and what to study, then THIS COURSE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields. Same amount of time required, same amount of hours, same test for everyone in the end. If you can get it all down by the time you take your NRemt exam, then you got it. If not, then you dont.
> *I busted my $@3 in my program, and for the last year, Ive done nothing but study, read, do clinicals, work my normal shifts, and study more, and I must have done something right to get it on the first try.* Im extremely proud of myself that I had it in me to get through this. It was a lot of VERY HARD WORK. I think you know in your heart whether or not this is right for you. Dont look to everyone on a forum to make your decision, or look to them for approval. You will be very disappointed more often than not.


 


Ms.Medic said:


> And unfortunately Rid,,, you are not the one who gets to decide who comes to your rescue, or what kind of education they will have. The state does, and I bet that if they didnt feel that the *"min. requirements" would sufice,* then I dont think they would leave them at that. Get over yourself already.


 
When we talk about a two year program on this forum, hopefully it is meant to be a two year degree program.  But, yes there are places that take 700 hours of training and stretch it to two years just to give the illusion of a lengthy program.

To down play the importance of education in any healthcare profession just demonstrates a lack of knowledge and education from that person.  

Do you realize how must easier the Paramedic core classes would be if you had prerequisites before entering the program so that all you would have to do is learn the application of the procedures?  And, you might even understand why those things are done and why they work or not.  You would also have developed study habits and reading comprehension skills which also would have made the Paramedic program much easier.

The Paramedic is the only  license holder in the medical professions that has failed to see a need to obtain higher education.  Yet they are the most vocal when it comes to comparing salary and reimbursement.  No mystery there since the legislators have many times pointed out what they want from a healthcare professionals.  All the other professions have stepped up and raised their stanards.  It was the professionals themselves that petitioned both the state and national levels for increased standards.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> You will never hear a medic -- or any other healthcare professional, like a nurse, RT, PT, or even x-ray tech -- who actually has that education saying that they didn't need all that A&P and Microbiology, and Chemistry, and Psychology to be a good practitioner.  The only people you hear saying that are those that don't have it.  What does that tell you?  The truth is, unless you have received that extra education, you simply are not qualified to determine if you really needed it or not.  You don't know what you don't know.  And neither did I.



I already had three A&P courses before I went through, it was prereq for my emt basic course.
Intro, 1, and 2

Along with many other courses that I think made it a lot easier for me. Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you dont get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, its ridiculous. Just because I didnt take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesnt mean I dont have that knowledge.


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## AJ Hidell (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> I already had three A&P courses before I went through, it was prereq for my emt basic course.
> Intro, 1, and 2


Dang!  That's a serious EMT course there!  Hats off to them.  That's the kind of thinking that it will take to lead us into the 20th century.  It's just sad that the majority of all paramedic programs in the country don't even require that.  But again, the fire and volly chiefs fight it every time it is tried.



> Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you dont get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, its ridiculous. Just because I didnt take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesnt mean I dont have that knowledge.


Agreed.  You're absolutely right about that.  So long as the preparation and the core education are the same, the setting is not of paramount importance to me.  And I will often recommend non-collegiate paramedic courses to prospective students when their quality is known to be superior.  I will, however, always recommend that they obtain the same prerequisites (or usually more) before attending that course.  Added together, you're right, it adds up to a good education, degree or not.  The most important concept is that those courses must be completed before the paramedic core in order to achieve optimum educational synergy.  A medic who goes back to take those courses after the fact will not develop into as good a medic as he would have had he done it in the proper order.

Unfortunately, the 10 week course is not known to even be adequate, much less superior.  It is great that you got a foundation established before the course.  That well enabled you to better understand and assimilate your paramedic instruction, as well as to recognize the deficiencies in the process.  So long as you maintain your current commitment, you are going to develop very well into an above average practitioner.  I just hope you remember that, in the system you hail from, you are very much the exception to the rule.


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## Foxbat (Mar 6, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> You would also have developed study habits and reading comprehension skills which also would have made the Paramedic program much easier.


Ironically, my college study habits actually played an evil joke on me during my EMT class. I understand and retain the material in my classes (engineering) pretty well from lectures, handouts and such, and I usually turn to books if material is harder than usual. That approach, so far, has worked well for me.
Well, my EMT class was too easy and I did not do enough reading only to discover later (after I passed all exams) that there's stuff I should have known from the book and I didn't.:wacko:


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 6, 2009)

So would it be a good idea to see their diploma's  alike in the Doc's office? Maybe, we should institute the idea of hanging our sheepskin in the back of the truck to allow to see if patients should trust us or not. 

R/r 911


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> I already had three A&P courses before I went through, it was prereq for my emt basic course.
> Intro, 1, and 2
> 
> Along with many other courses that I think made it a lot easier for me. Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you dont get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, its ridiculous. Just because I didnt take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesnt mean I dont have that knowledgeAlong with many other courses that I think made it a lot easier for me. Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you don’t get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, it’s ridiculous. Just because I didn’t take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesn’t mean I don’t have that knowledge.



How do you really know? Your certificate ink is not dry yet and you’re already presuming you have equivelant knowledge? How many cardiac cases have you personally been responsible for (no preceptor, no other Paramedic, etc) yet?. How many difficult arrhythmias have you interpreted and have you worked a CHF vs. COPD respiratory or pediatric arrest yet? Your assuming a lot.. You maybe great then again...?

There is a reason schools are generally set up the way they are. Believe it or not, someone smarter than a clock hour certificate figured this out way time ago. Sure many attempt to short cut, but soon find out it makes it bad for the profession and definitely bad on the patient. This is why more and more on-line, bridge, and other alternative programs are being closely scrutinized, increasing the required hours or just slowly being phased out. Many may pass the boards with flying colors; but they do not know what to do in the job. 

Instead of making it easier, we should be making length twice as hard. Too many are allowed to be Paramedics. Make the curriculum demanding enough that one has to actually master the objectives and have a full understanding of the material. Let's have more scenario base simulations with intense clinical and set number of patient contacts; not hours. Fortunately, the new curriculum will have patient contacts, not just hours; so at least that is an improvement. 

R/r 911


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## JPINFV (Mar 6, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> So would it be a good idea to see their diploma's  alike in the Doc's office? Maybe, we should institute the idea of hanging our sheepskin in the back of the truck to allow to see if patients should trust us or not.
> 
> R/r 911


I'm game for that.


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## benkfd (Mar 6, 2009)

I know I'm getting in late on the conversation here but, what do you consider accelerated?  My Medic class was 18 mo.'s long.... Also a good instructor makes all the difference in the world I think.  Mine was truely AWESOME!


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> How do you really know? Your certificate ink is not dry yet and you’re already presuming you have equivelant knowledge? How many cardiac cases have you personally been responsible for (no preceptor, no other Paramedic, etc) yet?. How many difficult arrhythmias have you interpreted and have you worked a CHF vs. COPD respiratory or pediatric arrest yet?
> 
> There is a reason schools are generally set up the way they are. Believe it or not, someone smarter than a clock hour certificate figured this out way time ago. Sure many attempt to short cut, but soon find out it makes it bad for the profession and definitely bad on the patient. This is why more and more on-line, bridge, and other alternative programs are being closely scrutinized, increasing the required hours or just slowly being phased out. Many may pass the boards with flying colors; but they do not know what to do in the job.
> 
> ...




AND HOW MANY HAVE YOU ???  Everyone starts somewhere, and it seems that if someone deosnt know the same things you do, start out on "your level", you want to knock their ideas or dreams down. You seriously need to get over yourself, as I have said before. There is a huge difference in helping people understand, and knocking down everyone who tries to do something. Your hateful, your arrogant, cocky, and just a flat out,want to know it all kinda guy. I have yet to find ANYTHING on this entire site where you have been nice, encourage, or give props to anyone. People dont come to this site to hear you put them down, make your stupid little sarcastic remarks, or listen to how much you think you know". Truth is, you dont know it all either, so its about time you man up and quit being so rude. Why would you even put yourself on a site,that is here for people to ask questions and learn, when all your gonna do is be hateful about what they dont know. Giving advice, helping someone learn, and answering someones questions is one thing, but when your going to continue to be so hateful when they do, take a look at all the post you post on this site about how you think ems should have higher education standards, but when someone does want to know something, you make them feel so low and not want to ask anything again.


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## medic417 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> AND HOW MANY HAVE YOU ???  Everyone starts somewhere, and it seems that if someone deosnt know the same things you do, start out on "your level", you want to knock their ideas or dreams down. You seriously need to get over yourself, as I have said before. There is a huge difference in helping people understand, and knocking down everyone who tries to do something. Your hateful, your arrogant, cocky, and just a flat out,want to know it all kinda guy. I have yet to find ANYTHING on this entire site where you have been nice, encourage, or give props to anyone. People dont come to this site to hear you put them down, make your stupid little sarcastic remarks, or listen to how much you think you know". Truth is, you dont know it all either, so its about time you man up and quit being so rude. Why would you even put yourself on a site,that is here for people to ask questions and learn, when all your gonna do is be hateful about what they dont know. Giving advice, helping someone learn, and answering someones questions is one thing, but when your going to continue to be so hateful when they do, take a look at all the post you post on this site about how you think ems should have higher education standards, but when someone does want to know something, you make them feel so low and not want to ask anything again.




Ms Medic Rid is an honest helpful poster here and at other sites.  Yes he will give you his opinion even if it is not the popular one.  His many years and education to go with it back his statements.  Please keep posting but also open your mind to Rids post even when you disagree and you will be a better Paramedic for it.  Besides myself you have Rid, Vent, AJ and a few others that will tell you like it is but will also work to help you if you seriously want help.  I'm not saying back down from a discussion, but present facts for your side.  Then everyone benefits.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

medic417 said:


> Ms Medic Rid is an honest helpful poster here and at other sites.  Yes he will give you his opinion even if it is not the popular one.  His many years and education to go with it back his statements.  Please keep posting but also open your mind to Rids post even when you disagree and you will be a better Paramedic for it.  Besides myself you have Rid, Vent, AJ and a few others that will tell you like it is but will also work to help you if you seriously want help.  I'm not saying back down from a discussion, but present facts for your side.  Then everyone benefits.



Postings are facts !!! And my mind is opened, which is why I am on here. As I said in my post, there is a difference in helping someone, and helping someone by knocking them with sarcastic, rude comments. If he wants to state his "facts", then why not leave out the hatefullness, sarcasm, and arrogance, which is in 99% of his posts. Im all about learning from someone who is clearly more knowledgeable, but not when it comes with all the rudeness. Nobody benefits from hatefullness.


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## reaper (Mar 6, 2009)

Before you start a huge fight on here, let me make a suggestion. Go back and read the entire forum for the last five years. You will learn that there has been hundreds of posters just like you. You take stuff personally, you get your feelings hurt easy and that keeps you from learning from those that have the experience in EMS.

There are quite a few here that started out just like you. They did not like Rid and Vent telling them they were wrong, all the time. Guess what, They were wrong and they decided to learn from it. They are now great members here and have advanced their EMS careers over it.

People will tell you like it is. Learn to deal with that and you will learn a lot of knowledge here. Whine and moan, and I can bet you won't be here in a year. That would be a shame. You can become a great medic, if you learn to gather the wisdom of those of us that have lived it and learned from the mistakes of the past!


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## Ridryder911 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> AND HOW MANY HAVE YOU ???  Everyone starts somewhere, and it seems that if someone deosnt know the same things you do, start out on "your level", you want to knock their ideas or dreams down. You seriously need to get over yourself, as I have said before. There is a huge difference in helping people understand, and knocking down everyone who tries to do something. Your hateful, your arrogant, cocky, and just a flat out,want to know it all kinda guy. I have yet to find ANYTHING on this entire site where you have been nice, encourage, or give props to anyone. People dont come to this site to hear you put them down, make your stupid little sarcastic remarks, or listen to how much you think you know". Truth is, you dont know it all either, so its about time you man up and quit being so rude. Why would you even put yourself on a site,that is here for people to ask questions and learn, when all your gonna do is be hateful about what they dont know. Giving advice, helping someone learn, and answering someones questions is one thing, but when your going to continue to be so hateful when they do, take a look at all the post you post on this site about how you think ems should have higher education standards, but when someone does want to know something, you make them feel so low and not want to ask anything again.



I am not here or to promote hand holding and to "make things easy or feel better" b.s. Medicine is tough, prehospital care is rougher. I am a patient advocate; whatever it takes to make patient care better. 

I was shocking patients and interpreting XII leads before your mom & dad probably held hands. Alike most other Paramedics I have worked multiple jobs at one time, so my experience is vast and usually at a mixture of rural and metropolitan. From a small rural town to Parkland Trauma Center, National Level Trauma Studies to various forms of EMS such as HEMS, SCT, etc. 

How do I know such? Because yes, I've been there and done it. Yeah, I went through three Paramedic programs One which was 3 months long, another a hospital based then finally for my degree.  I went to a bridge Paramedic to RN program Then completed a BS and BSN; now nearly MSN. I have seen an observation of literally hundreds of people that have done the same. There is very few that will tell you differently than .. whenever you take a shortcut, you will have to make it up later. 

You want someone to compliment you on passing a test, well that's been done and truthfully wish you well. Now, within 96 hours after passing your test, you are now attempting to have knowledge enough of EMS Systems and the education/training within it to actually give an opinion as a fact. Now I ask based upon what? What true academia and research you can produce that proclaims that it is true? Want to compare academic comparison of short cut programs and those that require the other? How many program analysis and educational evaluations have you performed? You spouted that the state mandates the requirement as if that was a outstanding accomplishment. 

Sorry you find me sarcastic, rude, not being helpful. Truthfully, I don't care. I am not here to make people feel good about themselves or give reassurance. That comes within knowing you have the education, knowledge and with gained clinical experience.  I forewarn you to await until a physician or nurse informs you the facts of life. I can assure you, my method is much more diplomatic and pleasant.  

Yeah, I don't sugar coat it. Not for anyone, not my students, or peers. or people that post. If they want my opinion they get it, they state and post inaccurate or opinions sole based upon only one view, I speak up. Just like my avatar. 

I base my opinions upon several things. First is it true? As per academia, research and published education? Second  real clinical experience.Third I may play a Devils advocate: I may post an opinion or fact that I totally disagree with. Why? To spark debate and to create an environment to "think outside the box". Am I ever wrong? You bet and I have more than once apologized or corrected myself. 

There is too much candy coating in EMS already; one of the reason so many enter and only to drop out within a few years.

It's okay to have opinions everyone has one, however; when questioned be able to defend or debate it. I have found those that need encouragement and reaffirmation, usually have a difficult time in EMS and medicine until they understand what I discussed. 

I do wish you the best, but remember it takes a tough skin to be in EMS. 

R/r 911


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

reaper said:


> Before you start a huge fight on here, let me make a suggestion. Go back and read the entire forum for the last five years. You will learn that there has been hundreds of posters just like you. You take stuff personally, you get your feelings hurt easy and that keeps you from learning from those that have the experience in EMS.
> 
> There are quite a few here that started out just like you. They did not like Rid and Vent telling them they were wrong, all the time. Guess what, They were wrong and they decided to learn from it. They are now great members here and have advanced their EMS careers over it.
> 
> People will tell you like it is. Learn to deal with that and you will learn a lot of knowledge here. Whine and moan, and I can bet you won't be here in a year. That would be a shame. You can become a great medic, if you learn to gather the wisdom of those of us that have lived it and learned from the mistakes of the past!



ONCE AGAIN,,,,,I never said he wasnt helpful, and I dont have a problem with someone teling me Im wrong and helping me learn from it. READ MY POST BETTER.  But there are better ways to go about it, other than be hateful. My whole problem is the hateful, cocky attitude, along with the extremely rude sarcastic comments to those who are new to ems, or havent had the experience as he has.


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## VentMedic (Mar 6, 2009)

benkfd said:


> I know I'm getting in late on the conversation here but, what do you consider accelerated? My Medic class was 18 mo.'s long.... Also a good instructor makes all the difference in the world I think. Mine was truely AWESOME!


 

Unfortunately 18 months tells us very little about your program. When the medic program is still measured by "hours of training" rather than  universally accepted academic measures, there is little way to compare. Your program could consist of only 700 hours but was stretched out to 18 months by attending 1 day per week. 

An EMT-B class consisting of a mere 110 hours can be made to sound impressive by saying it lasted 1 year. However, when compared to a true academic measure, one would consider that very pathetic.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> How do I know such? Because yes, I've been there and done it. Yeah, I went through three Paramedic programs One which was 3 months long, another a hospital based then finally for my degree.  I went to a bridge Paramedic to RN program Then completed a BS and BSN; now nearly MSN. I have seen an observation of literally hundreds of people that have done the same. There is very few that will tell you differently than .. whenever you take a shortcut, you will have to make it up later.
> 
> You want someone to compliment you on passing a test, well that's been done and truthfully wish you well. Now, within 96 hours after passing your test, you are now attempting to have knowledge enough of EMS Systems and the education/training within it to actually give an opinion as a fact. Now I ask based upon what? What true academia and research you can produce that proclaims that it is true? Want to compare academic comparison of short cut programs and those that require the other? How many program analysis and educational evaluations have you performed? You spouted that the state mandates the requirement as if that was a outstanding accomplishment.
> 
> ...







Okay first of all, you obviously didn't read my post very well, and me having just passed my exam, had absolutely nothing to do with your rudeness,  your attitude, or anything else that I posted. I dont pretend to have an abundance of knowledge, I know that I dont, and I know that theres things that I will never know in ems. However, I dont need your hateful sarcasm, as does anyone else. You want to be "just sarcastic", fine, I Im 100% sarcastic myself, but hatefullness does not need to come along with it.

AND, who said anything about sugar coating anything. Theres a difference in the "hardcore truth", and once again, hatefull sarcasm, and knocking others for lack of experience who are truly in ems because they love it, and strive to be the best that they can. Me being one of those, it really irritates me to see others trying hard too, only for you to come behind them and be so hatefull, when its not even relevant to what they are trying to learn about.

I will admit, there are some posters who seem to have no common sense whatsoever, but as long as they are truly trying to better themselves, with what they have, be supportive. Its not hard to do. 

And last, HOW DO YOU FIGURE THAT IM TELLING YOU YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ????  THOSE WORDS WERE NEVER TYPED.


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## triemal04 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms. Medic-  Take a deep breath and calm down.  Then take a look at what you have done to get your cert as a paramedic aside from the course itself; what classes have you taken?  You allready listed A&P, what else?  Hearing that might, maybe, change some of what you are hearing versus people just assuming that you went straight through a quick 6 month paramedic course that doesn't do much for teaching people.  You need to realize that there are many, many people who go through an "accelerated" paramedic course and come out knowing exactly squat, due in large part to the fact that nothing is really taught and all the students are expected to do is memorize things.  While this may not apply to you, you will get lumped into the same group without doing something to show you know more; stereotypes suck, but look at how often they're true.  

Now go back and look at some of Ridryder's posts on this and similar topics.  While they aren't sugar-coated, and shouldn't be (the days of having your hand held and told that everything is ok are over in this line of work...and that's a general you not YOU) they always have the same theme, that the amount of education for this profession needs to increase.  Honestly ask yourself, do you really disagree?  If all you did was your accelerated course with no other classes like I'm betting a lot of your classmates did, would you be prepared?  Now wait 6 months are so and answer that same question again.  It may be a very, very different answer.  While there is always a learning curve for new paramedics, knowing what is happening to your pt, why it's happening, and why what you are doing will work will make your job so much easier; if all you know how to do is "give this when I see that," like get's taught in many short courses and many longer ones, you will have many problems; our pt's didn't read the textbook...the :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s...how they present and the multiple problems all occuring at once will be very different than what you learned in school.  Even if all you took was A&P, that'll help; you'll have a much better understanding of how the body works and how a problem with one system will cause issues with another, as well as being prepared for that to happen than many of your classmates.  But what would it be like if you hadn't taken A&P?

As far as some posts not being nice...I'm sorry, but you aren't in kindergarten anymore.  This is not a group therapy session.  You are now expected to assess, diagnose and treat your pt's appropriately.  If you do it incorrectly, don't expect to have someone pat you on the back and make it all better.  The same goes for all aspects of this job, from what you were taught to what you do; when you do it wrong, the responce very well may not be a nice one.  If you don't like it here, think of what it'll be like when it's being said to your face; and you've allready experienced that at least once, haven't you?  Get used to it.

medic417-  Seriously, either put up, or shutup.  While Ridryder, Ventmedic, AJ and multiple others have extreme amounts of credentials, experience and knowledge, and, whether or not I agree with everything they say, very often bring excellent information and viewpoints, all you seem to do is parrot people and get very vauge when asked for specifics.  Perhaps you could enlighten us with your background and, hopefully, leave me with egg on my face.  Or perhaps you could think about what you are saying before you say it.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

Ridryder911 said:


> You want someone to compliment you on passing a test, well that's been done and truthfully wish you well. Now, within 96 hours after passing your test, you are now attempting to have knowledge enough of EMS Systems and the education/training within it to actually give an opinion as a fact. Now I ask based upon what? What true academia and research you can produce that proclaims that it is true?




Show me where in the world that I "pretended to have knowledge" please. I HAVENT. And thats not even what my post was about. Once again, you want to go after something thats not relevant.


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## medic417 (Mar 6, 2009)

triemal04 said:


> medic417-  Seriously, either put up, or shutup.  While Ridryder, Ventmedic, AJ and multiple others have extreme amounts of credentials, experience and knowledge, and, whether or not I agree with everything they say, very often bring excellent information and viewpoints, all you seem to do is parrot people and get very vauge when asked for specifics.  Perhaps you could enlighten us with your background and, hopefully, leave me with egg on my face.  Or perhaps you could think about what you are saying before you say it.




I present arguements that make you think outside your comfort zone there fore you choose to take a cheap shot at me.  Yes I am very blunt and short.  As an educator I expect people to research so they get the material not only in their minds but their hearts. This you take for vague, parrot talk, But I assure you I think for myself and advocate education.  I will not give the education away, you must earn it grasshopper.  I sugar coat less than Vent, Rid, and A.J..  But perhaps I should not include myself with them.  So if I offended by doing so I apologize.  Have a great day.


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## triemal04 (Mar 6, 2009)

medic417 said:


> I present arguements that make you think outside your comfort zone there fore you choose to take a cheap shot at me.  Yes I am very blunt and short.  As an educator I expect people to research so they get the material not only in their minds but their hearts. This you take for vague, parrot talk, But I assure you I think for myself and advocate education.  I will not give the education away, you must earn it grasshopper.  I sugar coat less than Vent, Rid, and A.J..  But perhaps I should not include myself with them.  So if I offended by doing so I apologize.  Have a great day.


Riiight.  Taken to PM to keep the thread open.  Though if you'd like to enlighten everyone with some specifics about your background, please feel free to embarass me.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

AJ Hidell said:


> .  I just hope you remember that, in the system you hail from, you are very much the exception to the rule.



Understood, which is exactly what I stated in the very first post, explaining just a fraction of how much self motivation you have to have to go through one of these. And I stated before, if you dont have any, you cannot come out of one of these programs with the intent to initiate patient care. Thats just down right ridiculous, and not to mention selfish. These programs are not for just anybody, as did I also state, but then out of nowhere, I get side swiped and told that Im "pretending to know everything" because I just passed my test ??????????? WTH.

And just FYI : It was not ALL 3 that were prereqs, just intro, and then you had to take 1 while you were doing the basic course. And then as I continued through the degree program, and had spent all of my savings to go through it, my 16 year old brother was killed, so I withdrew, and got none of my money back because it had been too long.
Saved up again to finish, and I had an ooops baby boy born at 24 weeks. So once again I was back to square one. So it wasnt like I had absolutely no clue as to what I was doing when I decided to go through the fast track. I had several college courses, to include my A&Ps, computer, algebra's/calculus, writing/english, and I have worked hard at all of them. So forgive me if I get a little offended when someone knocks my education, and tells me I wont be as good as the rest that went through a 2 year degree program. BS.

And Im not looking for sympathy, before anyone throws that line out there (Rid). LOL.


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## medic417 (Mar 6, 2009)

triemal04 said:


> Riiight.  Taken to PM to keep the thread open.  Though if you'd like to enlighten everyone with some specifics about your background, please feel free to embarass me.



No background will be given here or in reply to the PM never recieved, as I have no desire to embarass you.  Have a great day.

edit PM showed up after this post.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 6, 2009)

Okay, in reading this little debacle today, I'm seriously tempted to lock this thread but I'm not going to at this time.

What I am going to do is say this, and I apologize in advance for the shouting but I want to make sure that everyone understands it...

*BE POLITE OR BE THE FOCUS OF MY COMPLETE AND UNDIVIDED ATTENTION*!  

Your choice.

If you've got an issue with a post, please use the report post function.  If you've got an issue with a member, take it to PM.  If you want to throw a temper tantrum, go elsewhere to do it.


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## medic417 (Mar 6, 2009)

Thank you ffemt8978.

As to the accelerated programs the greatest problem I have is that there is no way to actually educate a person that does not already have a higher medical education in a 10-16 week program.  You can teach the test but w/o a medical background you can not get the education required to think for yourself.


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## Ms.Medic (Mar 6, 2009)

ffemt8978 said:


> Okay, in reading this little debacle today, I'm seriously tempted to lock this thread but I'm not going to at this time.
> 
> What I am going to do is say this, and I apologize in advance for the shouting but I want to make sure that everyone understands it...
> 
> ...





Talk about throwing a temper tantrum !!!!  LOL. 


As for being polite,,,,thats what this lil arguement is about.


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ms.Medic said:


> Talk about throwing a temper tantrum !!!!  LOL.
> 
> 
> As for being polite,,,,thats what this lil arguement is about.



Yep...but I call it "Fair Warning"


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## ffemt8978 (Mar 7, 2009)

Okay, I tried it the nice way.


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