# Queensland, Australia Paramedic Reciprocity



## Rykielz

Hey everyone,
                I've been reading through some posts on reciprocity from the US to Australia and I found it interesting. I know this question has been asked multiple times before, but I'm hoping mine will be a bit more direct. What I have read is that Queensland University is most likely the best option for a US paramedic hoping to reciprocate to Australia. Can any of you enlighten me as to the entry qualifications or maybe even some contact information?

Just a little background information. I just passed the NREMT-P exam in California but have yet to actually work as a paramedic in the field. I do have 3 years of 9-1-1 EMT experience though working in Southern California (EMS is kind of a joke around here I know), as well as a year of volunteer experience with a fire department. I also hold an associate's degree in Public Administration, if that has any bearing whatsoever to EMS. 

Thank you in advance.


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## MrBrown

The skill and education base in Australia/NZ at even basic levels (Advanced Care Paramedic in Queensland) is significantly higher than that of the United States and as such, you are probably going to have a difficult time gaing reciprocity for your current experience base.

Queensland has four levels (two student levels called P1 and P2, and two on road levels called Advanced Care (P3) and Intensive Care (P4)).

Scope of practice for a P3 (Adv Care) is here http://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/medical/pdf/scope of practice.pdf and education reciprocity requirements here http://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/recruitment/priorqual.asp#3

Basically looks like you'd need 5,500 hours of verifiable patient contact and a bunch of other things.

QUT run the Paramedic degree (3 years) which is here http://www.courses.qut.edu.au/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Courses.woa/wa/selectMajorFromMain?courseID=6084 you may be able to get advanced standing and do two years.


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## Rykielz

Is there any way to work during this program? Or are you going to pretty much be homeless for 3 years?


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## MrBrown

I cannot speak for the Queensland program but here you are strongly discouraged from working during the program given the amount of time you need to invest in study and praxis.  Don't forget that in this part of the world we have Government underwritten universal student loans for tuition and books etc.

Now, you might be able to rustle up reciprocity as an Advanced Care Paramedic and do the Degree coversion program part time which is what a lot of our people do who have the old vocational qualifications.

Given you have some qualifications and experience they won't be totally worthless by any stretch of the immigination..... but you certinaly won't be taken on as an Intensive Care office (ALS) 

Your best bet is to contact QAS because any advice I give you is largely annecdotal and taken off my own observations and experience which doesnt really put you in the best shape to go off and make informed decisions.

Do remember that ambo's down here are radically different than the US system and SoCal in particular.   It is outlined well on other parts of the forum but in summary

1) No medical control to speak of, online orders are not required
2) Much emphasis on critical clinical decision making and not following a protcol that ends in "consult medical direction"
3) Totally different focus on patient care; e.g. less emphasis on longboards and more on pain relief (we carry six or seven analgesics)
4) Officers' can refuse to transport a patient and are not obligated to obtain a refusal


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## Veneficus

MrBrown said:


> 1) No medical control to speak of, online orders are not required
> 2) Much emphasis on critical clinical decision making and not following a protcol that ends in "consult medical direction"
> 3) Totally different focus on patient care; e.g. less emphasis on longboards and more on pain relief (we carry six or seven analgesics)
> 4) Officers' can refuse to transport a patient and are not obligated to obtain a refusal



Why do you have to tease people like that


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## Scott33

I will echo what Mr Brown said. Have a look at the Australian Immigration website. Technically, you may be able to get a student visa if you wanted to do it that way, but your work options are very limited while you are studying, and your obligations as a student will have to be your first priority. You also need to take enough money to support yourself for the duration.

Forget automatic reciprocity - it isn't going to happen. Might be to do with the fact that foreign countries are denied the opportunity to know what our standards are - given that every county, in every State like to work different from everyone else. :wacko:

Option 2 is to become an RN. They usually have an easier time with reciprocity and foreign visas, and Australia is no exception.

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/medical-practitioners/


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## Melclin

I know I replied in PM, but I've one or two things to add.

Study and practical work wise, there isn't really any reason why you couldn't work. Most uni students do have part time jobs. The degree isn't rocket science, although I doubt you could work enough to support yourself entirely. 

The visa issue is going to be problem your biggest problem I would imagine, but its not insurmountable. Many students live and work here with no intention of staying here. Add that to the fact that lot of areas are desperate for paramedics, and you have a situation where immigration might look favourably upon you given that you intend to stay here and medics are in short supply. 

I've heard NSW take people from the US on a case by case basis, but from the sound of it you will be pushing it to get an basic level position in any of the services as I said. We have a level for rural areas called an Ambulance Community Officer, that is paid part time BLS and a lot of them are studying in the degree. That might be an option, and other states might have an equivalent.

I would think, depending on where you go and what credit, if any, you can get for the paramedic book learnins you've already covered, that you would be able to knock the degree on its head in two years.


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## Scott33

Melclin said:


> Study and practical work wise, there isn't really any reason why you couldn't work. Most uni students do have part time jobs. The degree isn't rocket science, although I doubt you could work enough to support yourself entirely.



It is more a case of the student visa having restrictions on how many hours the student can work.

_"up to 20 hours when the course is in session, and unlimited hours during course breaks"_. 

The visa expires when the course ends, so other arrangements would need to be in place if the student is to remain in the country to take up employment

Seems to be the same deal in many countries with student visas

http://www.immi.gov.au/students/_pdf/permission-to-work-students.pdf


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## Melclin

Scott33 said:


> _"up to 20 hours when the course is in session, and unlimited hours during course breaks"_.



Depending on your arrangements, that can easily be enough. Especially if you build money up in the considerable summer break and/or saved a little before you came. You wouldn't want to work more than that anyway, while studying.

There might student subsidies available to you as well. I'm not sure if any apply to international students but its worth a look.


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## Rykielz

I'm planning on going in the next year or so when I'll have saved 30K USD. That should be enough to support myself for a year without working at all. How difficult is it to get into a university? I mean I am a foreigner so I'd imagine it'll be more difficult than a native


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## downunderwunda

Rykielz said:


> I'm planning on going in the next year or so when I'll have saved 30K USD. That should be enough to support myself for a year without working at all. How difficult is it to get into a university? I mean I am a foreigner so I'd imagine it'll be more difficult than a native


I would strongly suggest you contact the University directly. There will be fees associated with the course, as with any 'foreign' student. 

Your other alternative, if you had actually read the Student Paramedic recruitment guide, is general entry. You are paid to train & are working as you train. you then progress through the levels to become an Intensive Care Paramedic. 

You would however need to check with the Immigration Department as to what type of Visa is required.

http://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/recruitment/pdf/SP Bk1 TOTAL.pdf

I would suggest you read this more closely to see what you need.


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## Rykielz

I read that one and looked into NSW as Melclin suggested. NSW actually looks like a really good deal. I spoke with the program director for NSW over the phone yesterday, and he basically said they would need to take a thorough look at my qualifications, but based off the international application they have, my pharmacology and skills training are closely comparable. Although I lack the classroom hours as well as the degree. I would likely be accepted as an ACP with training on the job as you stated, with pay which would be discussed.

As far as visas go, he said that they have various paramedic vacancies and that I would have no problem getting a temporary work visa if I was offered a position with them. (They put in the request and then I submit the paperwork for the temporary work-visa.)

Thank you for all your input. I really appreciate you guys spending time to help me out =)


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## janemcd

Rykielz, I have been a Paramedic (P1) with NSW Ambos for 6 years.  I can tell you that we have had 1 USA & numerous UK Paramedics employed with us (and fast tracked, depending on their qualifications) in the past few years.  I was looking into Paramedic work over in the USA and last year completed the UCLA EMT course.  The instructors were all very keen to learn about work down-under, especially when i told them our pay scale!  Our service doesn't require a degree however i believe that will change in the next few years.  You would be able to work full-time and pursue the Pre-Hospital Care degree through Vic Uni online or check out Charles Sturt Uni in Bathurst.  To go to the Intensive Care Paramedic level does not require the degree, all training is done in-house, at no cost to you.  My option of working over there is quite depressing.  Regardless of obtaining a Visa, the pay structure seems ridiculous and barely liveable, and USA does not acknowledge any training i have.  Let me know if i can help with anything re ASNSW.


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## MrBrown

janemcd said:


> ...[the] option of working over there is quite depressing...



At least they don't know any different, until we came along that was


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## Rykielz

Ya that's why I'm looking to move to Australia as a medic. I just got a job with AMR down in San Diego and their paying me $13 an hr on a 24-hr shift. In the California at least, the only way to really make a stable income as a medic is to work for a fire department.

Also, I spoke with an HR representative from NSWA a few weeks back and she said if I was looking to transfer I'd need to get preferably 1-2 years of experience for a temporary position, and at least 3 years for a permanent one. This is all before even applying. After which they'd go over all of my qualifications and training; which from the looks of it, would work against me.
Do you have any advice on some schooling or training I should get done over in the states prior to giving it a try?


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## MrBrown

I do like San Diego 

Educationally your best bet is to move beyond what you learnt at medic school; try for a Bachelors Degree in Paramedicine.  In the US they are few and far between but this is a good start as it will bring you up to a level of academic knowledge around to what most of our guys will have.

Operationally the biggest problem is how restrictive the US (and California in particular, specifically SoCal) is with thier medical oversight and scope of unrestricted practice.  No joke, if I have crushing chest pain next time I am in Los Angeles, I'm driving to Portland or Phoenix.

You can have all the theory in the world but if you're only used to transporting the patient to the hospital and calling up on the magic Ambophone for orders to treat you aren't really applying your advanced knowledge and developing good clinical judgement which is simply taken for granted as being part of ambulance practice here.

Unfortunately there are no systems in the US that I know of which allow ambo's to get experience in making decisions about non transport and autonomous Intensive Care practice (ALS).

It may work in your favour to seek out a very progressive system such as Boston, Wake County, Medic One (althoigh Mike Copass is extremely reluctant to take Paramedics from outside of Seattle) and get a few years in there.

Now obviously the ambulance services down here will not expect you to know everything first day on the job and will allow you to gain experience but the more experience you can get which makes you think on your own the better.


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## High Speed Chaser

Have a look at ACT if you want to do a Uni course, (both course and Ambulance Service), as you are qualified as an ICP straight after you graduate


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## MrBrown

High Speed Chaser said:


> Have a look at ACT if you want to do a Uni course, (both course and Ambulance Service), as you are qualified as an ICP straight after you graduate



I don't knw of any system that works this way in our part of world.  

Where did you see this?


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## downunderwunda

High Speed Chaser said:


> Have a look at ACT if you want to do a Uni course, (both course and Ambulance Service), as you are qualified as an ICP straight after you graduate



Here is their Web advertisment. 



> Careers in ACTAS
> 
> 
> 
> NOW RECRUITING
> 
> Intensive Care Paramedics
> 
> Applications are sought from Intensive Care Paramedics holding *current qualifications *to commence immediate employment with the ACT Ambulance Service. Applicants should possess the ability to work in a solo capacity or in small teams, have highly developed written and oral communication skills and a commitment to personal and professional development of others.
> 
> Reasonable relocation expenses are available to successful interstate applicants to assist with relocation to the ACT. To find out more information about the Australian Capital Territory go to http://www.liveincanberra.com.au/



I have highlighted the appropriate wording. Chaser, if you think that holding a Uni degree is the same as holding current qualifications, then you are dreaming. 

While the degree is a _part_ of overall qualifications, it will not allow you to step straight in & practice as an Intensive Care Paramedic. Their applications are sought from currently practicing paramedics. Those who have demonstrated competency in all aspects of care.


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## High Speed Chaser

downunderwunda said:


> Here is their Web advertisment.
> 
> 
> 
> I have highlighted the appropriate wording. Chaser, if you think that holding a Uni degree is the same as holding current qualifications, then you are dreaming.
> 
> While the degree is a _part_ of overall qualifications, it will not allow you to step straight in & practice as an Intensive Care Paramedic. Their applications are sought from currently practicing paramedics. Those who have demonstrated competency in all aspects of care.



"ACTAS is an *Intensive Care Paramedic service*, offering the  highest level of out of hospital emergency care to the community. All  ACT Ambulance emergency response units are staffed by at least one IC  Paramedic. Additionally, *all Student Paramedics*  successfully completing the course provided by ACTAS are trained to  Intensive Care Paramedic level."
SOURCE  Page 16

What I have been told by someone was wrong however. I was told that a university (I wasn't given a name) had a 3 year course that covered everything and trained you to the ICP level, then you could apply for ACTAS and you would be supervised by an experienced ICP where after a probation period you would become an ICP. More research, from *my understanding*,  reveals that once you have a qualification from any of the universities  listed in the document, you can then apply for ACTAS where they will train you to the ICP level over 3 years.

That add you posted is what they are currently looking for. They have other avenues for entry that are not open yet, (graduate paramedics) but I'm sure they will be open in the near future. 

SOURCE


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## NWParamedic

*Careers with International SOS*

Wondering if anyone on this thread has heard of International SOS. It looks like they have paramedic opportunities in Sydney, Palmerston, PNG, and off shore. Would like to know what you all downunder can share about this company providing EMS jobs. Here is the link:

http://www.internationalsos.com/en/careers.htm

Thx


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## Stew

The name rings a bell but I haven't actually heard anything specific. I'll see what I can find out for you.


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## NWParamedic

Stew said:


> The name rings a bell but I haven't actually heard anything specific. I'll see what I can find out for you.


Right on!

Thx


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