# How many people are on your ambulance?



## JohnJ (Jun 2, 2011)

How many people do you run on ambulances? The department I am joining typically runs three people to a truck, but sometimes runs four.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 2, 2011)

2.  The EMT and the Paramedic.


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## nwhitney (Jun 2, 2011)

Here in Portland, 2 paramedics


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jun 2, 2011)

Typically two IN the ambulance. Three IN the ambulance if we are doing training for a probie. 

I don't think I've ever had anyone on my ambulance before.


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## JohnJ (Jun 2, 2011)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Typically two IN the ambulance. Three IN the ambulance if we are doing training for a probie.
> 
> I don't think I've ever had anyone on my ambulance before.



lol. IN, ON, close enough 

I guess it's different considering we're volunteer.


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## lightsandsirens5 (Jun 2, 2011)

JohnJ said:


> lol. IN, ON, close enough
> 
> I guess it's different considering we're volunteer.



Lol! I know. I'm just feeling ornery this morning. ;-) 

And we are volunteer also. We just don't have near enough people to staff rigs with four. We have a hard enough time staffing two rigs with two people each.


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## JohnJ (Jun 2, 2011)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Lol! I know. I'm just feeling ornery this morning. ;-)
> 
> And we are volunteer also. We just don't have near enough people to staff rigs with four. We have a hard enough time staffing two rigs with two people each.



Well the majority of the volunteers, including myself, are not certified yet. So we're mostly made up of 3rd's. So when we're not transporting on weekdays we usually go 1 EMT and 2-3 3rd's and on weekends it's 2 EMTs and 1-2 3rd's.


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## Anjel (Jun 2, 2011)

Either 2emts or 2medics.

Occasionally a student or trainee


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## MrBrown (Jun 2, 2011)

Two Ambulance Officers in the ambulance,  

In Auckland it's generally two Paramedics, or a Paramedic and an Intensive Care Paramedic.  Technicians who are intern Paramedics in place of the second Paramedic sometimes.

Where volunteer Officers are used to create a blended crew it's often one Technician (volunteer) and one Paramedic (paid) or a Technician and an IC. 

Totally volunteer crews will have two Technicians.


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## Chief Complaint (Jun 2, 2011)

2 medics. Can be 2 I's, 2 P's, or one of each.


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## WolfmanHarris (Jun 2, 2011)

Two paramedics. On a BLS truck two PCP's. On an ALS truck one PCP and one ACP.


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## frdude1000 (Jun 2, 2011)

Our staffing depends on time of day.  Dayside, career staffing staffs our ambulance (BLS) with 2 EMT-B's and our medic unit (ALS) with either 1 EMT-B and 1 ALS Provider (EMT-I or EMT-P) or 2 ALS providers.  At night and sometimes on weekends, volunteer staffing supplements career staffing, bringing up the staffing on the ambulance to 3 or 4.


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## njemtbvol (Jun 2, 2011)

2 emt B's, 3 if there is a probie on that day.
Tho our neighboring town is like a clown car. We once got to an mvi and 6 of them got out


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## Icenine (Jun 2, 2011)

Pd service. Is MFR driver, P and B or I in back

Volunteer service is driver and 2 B's.  We have an ILS chase, so up to 3 in back.


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## ArcticKat (Jun 2, 2011)

911 calls:
1 ACP
1 ICP
1 PCP

Transfers:
1 ICP
1 PCP

Critical transfers
1 ACP
1 PCP


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## WolfmanHarris (Jun 2, 2011)

ArcticKat said:


> 911 calls:
> 1 ACP
> 1 ICP
> 1 PCP
> ...



I'm curious, what's the rationale behind three member crews? I know you run your service Kat, so I'm just curious. Is it cost-effective vs. tiering a second unit in the event the hands are needed?


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## MrBrown (Jun 2, 2011)

Crazy Canadians with your Intermediate Care Paramedics and two year educated PCPs in Ontario who can't put in a drip

Bloody hell our vocatioanlly trained Intermediate Care Officers of days gone by probably had about 9 months of formal education in total spread out over a couple years and they could harpoon people


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## rmabrey (Jun 2, 2011)

2 Around here, level depends on the service. Either 2 EMT-I or above at one service, the others are an EMT-B and a medic, or Double medic.


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## Aerin-Sol (Jun 2, 2011)

lightsandsirens5 said:


> Typically two IN the ambulance. Three IN the ambulance if we are doing training for a probie.
> 
> I don't think I've ever had anyone on my ambulance before.



This. 

Over a holiday weekend we had 10 people waiting for an ambulance to go out in. I asked if I could take one of those 10 people out with me and was told there was no way it could ever ever be justified.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 2, 2011)

Two. One I or P, one basic.


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## STXmedic (Jun 2, 2011)

Both services: 2 paramedics and almost always a student


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## abckidsmom (Jun 2, 2011)

2.  Medic/Basic or rarely medic/medic.

If there is a third, it's usuallya preceptee.  

The volunteers in my area tend to have more people on the trucks.


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## DrParasite (Jun 2, 2011)

for the paid job, ALS has two Paramedics, BLS has two EMTs.

if the a serious patient, you have 4 people on scene, and typically transport in two vehicles with either both medics or an emt and a medic in the back.

if it's a stable ALS patient, the medics will transport solo.

for the volunteer side, typically the minimum staffing is two, but usually we try to have at least 3, but no more than 4.  medics still run with 2, state requirement.  paid EMS agencies must run with 2 EMTs at a minimum state requirement 

volunteer ambulances can run with 1 EMT and 1 First Aid certified Driver at a minimum.


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## the_negro_puppy (Jun 2, 2011)

Paramedic/Paramedic
Paramedic/Student

sometimes 3 up if we have a university degree student doing clinical placement


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## IAems (Jun 2, 2011)

*Gotta Love LA*

ALS IFT: 1 EMT-B, 1 Paramedic
ALS Rescue: 2 Paramedics
BLS (IFT _or_ Rescue): 2 EMT-B
Specialty Care Transport: 2 EMT-B; 1 Respiratory Therapist (yeah, ventilator devices are beyond the scope of a paramedic in Los Angeles, just like pretty much everything else).
Critical Care Transport: 2 EMT-B; 1 MICN


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## dstevens58 (Jun 2, 2011)

At least a Basic in the back, firefighter or another basic for driver in ideal situations.  Department is totally staffed by volunteers.


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## fortsmithman (Jun 2, 2011)

njemtbvol said:


> 2 emt B's, 3 if there is a probie on that day.
> Tho our neighboring town is like a clown car. We once got to an mvi and 6 of them got out



Sounds like my service.  Most calls we have 3.


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## BEorP (Jun 3, 2011)

ArcticKat said:


> 911 calls:
> 1 ACP
> 1 ICP
> 1 PCP
> ...



Interesting... I didn't realize that we had places in Canada where they did three person crews. Do you find that this reduces the need for having a second crew for a lift or other assistance?


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## adamjh3 (Jun 3, 2011)

BLS IFT we run 2 basics. One of the 911 services in the county I know for sure runs dual medic, I'm fairly sure the other runs medic/basic.

At my company, if a patient is over 350 pounds they'll generally automatically dispatch an additional crew for a lift assist. This doesn't happen very often as we don't have a bari rig down here anymore.


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## TxParamedic (Jun 3, 2011)

*te*

2. The EMT and the Paramedic.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Jun 3, 2011)

*re*

1 Paramedic and 1 EMT basic, unless staff emergencies then we will run dbl medic.

Do 911 and IFT including vent transfers (1hour+ xfer times) for the last 2 years.  Before that we would run 1 medic and 2 basics with the second baggings the patient.


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## phideux (Jun 3, 2011)

We run all 911 calls, it's just me, now an EMT-P. And my partner, an EMT-B. If we ever need extra hands in the back, we are dispatched with at least a FR rig.


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## NomadicMedic (Jun 3, 2011)

911 service: a medic and an EMT-I. Occasionally a dual medic. 

ALS IFT: medic and a basic driver. Occasionally I'll take a nurse or RT. Balloon pumps, for instance.


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## kknp4life (Jun 4, 2011)

A basic and a Paramedic unless there is a ride along or a student.


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## PeteBlair (Jun 4, 2011)

I work with an all volunteer BLS EMS in a 55 plus community.

We have 3: 1 EMT-B and two First Responders one of whom is the driver.


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## Aussie_Medic_Girl (Jun 5, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> Paramedic/Paramedic
> Paramedic/Student
> 
> sometimes 3 up if we have a university degree student doing clinical placement



Our station runs these same combinations as well as an ambulance crewed by a single officer. This person generally just does transfers but gets dispatched to emergency calls if the main crew is busy. In this situation we may transport on our own (depending on pt's condition) or may request police or fire to drive for us if there is no ambulance backup available within a reasonable time frame.


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## BEorP (Jun 5, 2011)

Aussie_Medic_Girl said:


> Our station runs these same combinations as well as an ambulance crewed by a single officer. This person generally just does transfers but gets dispatched to emergency calls if the main crew is busy. In this situation we may transport on our own (depending on pt's condition) or may request police or fire to drive for us if there is no ambulance backup available within a reasonable time frame.



When you say that the single officer does transfers, does this mean that the sending facilities always send a nurse to accompany the patient?


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## MrBrown (Jun 5, 2011)

BEorP said:


> When you say that the single officer does transfers, does this mean that the sending facilities always send a nurse to accompany the patient?



No, the patient transfer service is always singled crewed with one PTO, they transport alone because they are basically hospital<>home<>GP clinic runs.

What you are thinking of is "inter facility transfer" of acutely crook people which is handled by a normal road crew or sometimes they will send somebody but no, the PTS are not used for that.


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## BEorP (Jun 5, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> No, the patient transfer service is always singled crewed with one PTO, they transport alone because they are basically hospital<>home<>GP clinic runs.
> 
> What you are thinking of is "inter facility transfer" of acutely crook people which is handled by a normal road crew or sometimes they will send somebody but no, the PTS are not used for that.



Ah, thanks... that makes more sense.


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## btkspot89 (Jun 5, 2011)

For my Volunteer- 1 Driver (Must be an EMT) and 1 EMT in the back and typically a 3rd Trainee
Paid- 2 EMT/Drivers.


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## BEorP (Jun 5, 2011)

the_negro_puppy said:


> Paramedic/Paramedic
> Paramedic/Student
> 
> sometimes 3 up if we have a university degree student doing clinical placement



When Australians mention a paramedic/student crew, is this student basically treated like a junior/probationary paramedic would be in Ontario? i.e. they can do pretty much everything but are closely watched and may be restricted from driving

Thinking of a student either driving an ambulance or attending to a patient on their own is a foreign concept to me since if a student ever did either of those things in Ontario there would be issues for them and their prepceptor... but I know that the Aussie system is quite different and when you say "student" it is probably very different from ours (who knows, probably even better than some of our paramedics!).


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## the_negro_puppy (Jun 5, 2011)

BEorP said:


> When Australians mention a paramedic/student crew, is this student basically treated like a junior/probationary paramedic would be in Ontario? i.e. they can do pretty much everything but are closely watched and may be restricted from driving
> 
> Thinking of a student either driving an ambulance or attending to a patient on their own is a foreign concept to me since if a student ever did either of those things in Ontario there would be issues for them and their prepceptor... but I know that the Aussie system is quite different and when you say "student" it is probably very different from ours (who knows, probably even better than some of our paramedics!).



In my state, our service runs a student program that employs a student paramedic full time and trains them for 2.5 years to become a qualified paramedic. We work full-time on an ambulance and study in our own/down time. We go through 5 semesters, at the end of each is a week of assessments, and 1 week workshop introducing new skills. As we progress through training we do more and more under supervision.

We can do pretty much anything within the paramedic scope under supervision. At the moment I am nearly 3/5 semesters in and am doing IV's, inserting LMA's, giving drugs like morphine etc. All of this is obviously under the supervision/approval of the qualified paramedic. We drive all the time as well, generally taking turns driving and doing pt care. Its a pretty good deal, we earn a good amount of money with overtime, for me its gonna be 70K plus this financial year. If a patient is very unstable etc, usually we will do the driving of the ambulance or Intensive care paramedic car with the most senior skilled doing pt care.

We finish with a diploma of paramedic science enabling to work as an Advanced Care Paramedic. However, this method is being phased out with the university degree taking over. You do a 3 year degree which involves clinical placements as a 3rd officer on an ambulance. Once you graduate you do an 'intern' year getting paid what an advanced diploma student does, and working through some assessments. AFter this year you then become a qualified ACP.


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## flyfisher151 (Jun 5, 2011)

Wow. You Aussie's actually get to make some money being a medic! I'm glad somebody on the planet actually gets paid on par for the job. Looks like it's bottom dollar here in the US. :sad: Par for our course these days.


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## TransportJockey (Jun 5, 2011)

flyfisher151 said:


> Wow. You Aussie's actually get to make some money being a medic! I'm glad somebody on the planet actually gets paid on par for the job. Looks like it's bottom dollar here in the US. :sad: Par for our course these days.



THere's absolutely no reason to pay EMTs here in the US more than we make. The market is oversaturated and there's really no education required for the job unfortunately. EMS in the UK countries is the way it should be here.


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## the_negro_puppy (Jun 6, 2011)

flyfisher151 said:


> Wow. You Aussie's actually get to make some money being a medic! I'm glad somebody on the planet actually gets paid on par for the job. Looks like it's bottom dollar here in the US. :sad: Par for our course these days.



It seems to pay well, but don't forget our cost of living here is atrocious hence the higher wages.

For example:







This house in my city is for sale at $775,000 :blink:


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## WolfmanHarris (Jun 6, 2011)

We get paid pretty well in Ontario. I grossed $75K last year, netted about $60K. Cost of living varies. I can't afford to live where I work, but I commute an hour and a bit and was able to buy a very comfortable house. 

Education standards are key to more money. The doubling of our BLS education to two years (coupled with the downloading of EMS from the province to the counties) lead to a HUGE increase in wages and improved working conditions back in 2000.


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## fortsmithman (Jun 6, 2011)

flyfisher151 said:


> Wow. You Aussie's actually get to make some money being a medic! I'm glad somebody on the planet actually gets paid on par for the job. Looks like it's bottom dollar here in the US. :sad: Par for our course these days.





TransportJockey said:


> THere's absolutely no reason to pay EMTs here in the US more than we make. The market is oversaturated and there's really no education required for the job unfortunately. EMS in the UK countries is the way it should be here.



Here in Canada our medics make good money.  Did you mean countries in the British Commonwealth of Nations, because the parliament of the United Kingdom have not had anything to do with Canada since our constitution was repatriated back in the 1980's.


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## Aussie_Medic_Girl (Jun 6, 2011)

MrBrown said:


> No, the patient transfer service is always singled crewed with one PTO, they transport alone because they are basically hospital<>home<>GP clinic runs.
> 
> What you are thinking of is "inter facility transfer" of acutely crook people which is handled by a normal road crew or sometimes they will send somebody but no, the PTS are not used for that.



I'll have to correct you here Brown. Our PTO service is generally actually double crewed with officers generally a lower clinical level than the on road officers. The transfers I refer to are things such as hospital to CT (as this is not located in the hospital) and hospital to airport for aeromedical evacuation. If a pt is unstable or requires constant monitoring then I will request the crew complete the transfer or alternatively have a nurse escort.


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## Hepinghand (Jun 6, 2011)

JohnJ said:


> How many people do you run on ambulances? The department I am joining typically runs three people to a truck, but sometimes runs four.


 we run 2 emts  in the back sometimes 3.Depends on what the call is.


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## Bullets (Jun 6, 2011)

2 Basics and a cadet/probe. w usually have a handful of cadets around do we take one on everything but crisis and od calls. if its a cpr then that goes out the window, we usually roll 2 trucks and have multiple members. I like my code to be a party


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## TransportJockey (Jun 6, 2011)

fortsmithman said:


> Here in Canada our medics make good money.  Did you mean countries in the British Commonwealth of Nations, because the parliament of the United Kingdom have not had anything to do with Canada since our constitution was repatriated back in the 1980's.



I did mean commonwealth, sorry about that.


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## addictedforever (Jun 6, 2011)

Here in rural Oregon. Our 95% volunteer ALS ambulance always rolls with one paramedic and one basic. Occasionally there's also a student/trainee/ride along. But also dispatched at the same time is the squad which may have anywhere from two to ten people on it all rankings from first responders to paramedics, plus the officer who is usually another EMT.


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## paramedic911 (Jun 13, 2011)

2 medic


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## Fox800 (Jun 25, 2011)

Double paramedic, both are credentialed to the same level.


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## Outbac1 (Jun 26, 2011)

Here in Nova Scotia the units are staffed with two people. It could be any mix of PCP,ICP,ACP. At my base all but one unit is scheduled to be staffed with an ACP and/or PCP or ICP. Of course vacation or sick days will affect the desired mix. If we have three on a unit the third is either a student or a medic doing a return to practice after being off for a period of time. eg: extended sick leave.
 We haven't had any new ICPs since 2002. At one time we had over 300 and now have less than 100. They've either quit, retired, or up graded to ACP.


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