# A Bachelors and a Job.



## ghost02 (Aug 14, 2013)

Hello, I was woundering if a Bachelors in Liberal Arts with a minor in math will help me very much in the application process. The school I go to is extremely rigorous, and truley teaches us how to think critically.

Would having this degree in a non-scientific and non-medical field be very good on an application? Would it make me stand out?

Thanks,
Michael


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## stemi (Aug 14, 2013)

Its good to be educated regardless. Probably more pertinent is any customer service or EMS experience you have.


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## Wes (Aug 14, 2013)

It'd definitely stand out to me.  Most people with a bachelor's degree will have little difficulty completing an EMT or paramedic class.  Your reading comprehension, scientific literacy, critical thinking, research skills, and written communication skills should all serve you well regardless of which path in EMS you pursue.


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## EpiEMS (Aug 14, 2013)

I've never met anybody with a bachelors' degree (or actively working on one) who struggled with an EMT class. I can't speak to paramedic coursework, but there's no way that a having a BA would hurt!


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## terrible one (Aug 14, 2013)

Are you asking about applying to school or for a job as an EMT/Paramedic?


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## ghost02 (Aug 14, 2013)

For a job as an ent, terrible. Thanks for the input so far guys, keep it coming.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 14, 2013)

ghost02 said:


> Hello, I was wondering if a Bachelors in Liberal Arts with a minor in math will help me very much in the application process. The school I go to is extremely rigorous, and truly teaches us how to think critically.
> 
> Would having this degree in a non-scientific and non-medical field be very good on an application? Would it make me stand out?
> 
> ...





Wes said:


> It'd definitely stand out to me.  Most people with a bachelor's degree will have little difficulty completing an EMT or paramedic class.  Your reading comprehension, scientific literacy, critical thinking, research skills, and written communication skills should all serve you well regardless of which path in EMS you pursue.


While it would make you stand out, you must also still show me _how_ your BA degree applies to your ability to provide care. It's the research skills, the comprehension, the overall literacy, and so on that allows you to read the latest stuff and be able to think how to apply the current best practices in patient care to your situation and within your current protocols. 

I would still encourage you to take the typical allied health prerequisites, if you haven't already done so, and that also can only help you down the road too. The more you know about what's "normal" for the body to do, the better off you'll be in making care decisions later.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 15, 2013)

OK my question is a little different.  I have a Bachelors in French from 13 years ago and the part that may hurt me is I have a BSN (Bachelors of Science in Nursing) from last year.

Now I have not been able to pass NCLEX so I am not sure how to spin this on my resume.  It was 2 years of my life and I used my savings while I was studying and did not work during that time.  So I don't want to leave it off for two reasons.  I think in apply for an EMT job a BSN looks good and how would I account for those two years.  I had 18 months on my resume where I traveled AFrica and Asia.  I don't want to have another gap.

But how do I spin it?  I really don't want to tell them I failed NCLEX - twice.  Any ideas?


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 15, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> OK my question is a little different.  I have a Bachelors in French from 13 years ago and the part that may hurt me is I have a BSN (Bachelors of Science in Nursing) from last year.
> 
> Now I have not been able to pass NCLEX so I am not sure how to spin this on my resume.  It was 2 years of my life and I used my savings while I was studying and did not work during that time.  So I don't want to leave it off for two reasons.  I think in apply for an EMT job a BSN looks good and how would I account for those two years.  I had 18 months on my resume where I traveled AFrica and Asia.  I don't want to have another gap.
> 
> But how do I spin it?  I really don't want to tell them I failed NCLEX - twice.  Any ideas?



Why do want to spin anything? Just do what you need to do to pass the NCLEX, and then be honest with potential employers that you had a hard time with it. Lots of people have to take it several times and then go on to be really good nurses. Not a huge deal at all.  

After a little bit of experience, no one will care at all that you failed the NCLEX 2 or even 3 times. No one will probably even know, unless you volunteer it.  

I assure you that you will cause many more problems for yourself by giving up on the exam and trying to hide it than you will by taking a review course, getting some tutoring in exam-taking and test-anxiety management skills, and passing the exam.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 15, 2013)

Halothane said:


> Why do want to spin anything? Just do what you need to do to pass the NCLEX, and then be honest with potential employers that you had a hard time with it. Lots of people have to take it several times and then go on to be really good nurses. Not a huge deal at all.
> 
> After a little bit of experience, no one will care at all that you failed the NCLEX 2 or even 3 times. No one will probably even know, unless you volunteer it.
> 
> I assure you that you will cause many more problems for yourself by giving up on the exam and trying to hide it than you will by taking a review course, getting some tutoring in exam-taking and test-anxiety management skills, and passing the exam.




I guess I should have been more clear.  I am looking for a job ASAP and I want to work in the medical field so I did an EMT program which was awesome.  I passed NREMT the day of graduation, my card came 5 days later, I went to the county to apply the next day (2 days ago) and was told I will have my card by Friday (tomorrow).  I have my temp AMbulance certification, my driving print out and everything else.  I just need to figure out what to do with my nursing education on my resume and what to say on interviews.

Yes once I start working I will start studying for the NCLEX again but RIGHT NOW I am interested in what to do with that information while looking for an EMT job.  

I am not giving up on the NCLEX and I do not want to get into the specifics of that because that is a whole different story.  Right now I am asking advice about nursing school on my resume but not being an RN.  I am NOT asking about how to pass the NCLEX.


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 15, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> *I guess I should have been more clear.* I am looking for a job ASAP and I want to work in the medical field so I did an EMT program which was awesome.  I passed NREMT the day of graduation, my card came 5 days later, I went to the county to apply the next day (2 days ago) and was told I will have my card by Friday (tomorrow).  I have my temp AMbulance certification, my driving print out and everything else.  I just need to figure out what to do with my nursing education on my resume and what to say on interviews.
> 
> Yes once I start working I will start studying for the NCLEX again but RIGHT NOW I am interested in what to do with that information while looking for an EMT job.
> 
> I am not giving up on the NCLEX and I do not want to get into the specifics of that because that is a whole different story.  *Right now I am asking advice about nursing school on my resume but not being an RN.*  I am NOT asking about how to pass the NCLEX.



Well again, lots of people have to repeat the NCLEX. I don't think it's a big deal and I wouldn't try to "spin it". 10% who take it fail it the first time, and 5% fail it twice or more. And many of those folks go on to be good nurses. In an interview, I'd just tell them you've had a tough time with the NCLEX and are taking your time before you retake it so you can be sure that you are really ready.

What I would worry about more is how to answer questions about your plans after you get your nursing license. Some places don't mind being a stepping stone, but many others won't hire someone who they think is just going to quite or want to go PRN in 6 months or a year, especially new people who take a while to get up to speed.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 15, 2013)

Halothane said:


> Well again, lots of people have to repeat the NCLEX. I don't think it's a big deal and I wouldn't try to "spin it". 10% who take it fail it the first time, and 5% fail it twice or more. And many of those folks go on to be good nurses. In an interview, I'd just tell them you've had a tough time with the NCLEX and are taking your time before you retake it so you can be sure that you are really ready.
> 
> What I would worry about more is how to answer questions about your plans after you get your nursing license. Some places don't mind being a stepping stone, but many others won't hire someone who they think is just going to quite or want to go PRN in 6 months or a year, especially new people who take a while to get up to speed.



Yeah I am worried about all those things.  Many companies hire nurses.  Some of my skills instructors worked on the ambulance with an RN.  Getting a hospital job in the San Francisco Bay Area is almost unheard of.  Many of my friends moved out of state after looking for over a year for an RN hospital job.  So if I worked at a company that also employs RNs and could transition into another position, that would be perfect.  Way better then moving out of state.

It's not a hospital but to be honest I think I would prefer being an RN on an ambulance then working in a hospital.


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 15, 2013)

ChanelCinq said:


> Getting a hospital job in the San Francisco Bay Area is almost unheard of.



I've heard the job market for RN's was pretty tight in parts of CA; I didn't realize it was _that_ bad.



ChanelCinq said:


> It's not a hospital but to be honest I think I would prefer being an RN on an ambulance then working in a hospital.



I prefer that, too, but most of those jobs require several years of critical care nursing experience. 

Good luck, whatever you end up doing.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 15, 2013)

I would completely echo what Halothane said about your BSN. Pretty much everyone KNOWS that the NCLEX is a difficult exam. All you have to do to explain that you're not an RN yet is simply to say that you've had a rough time with it. You do not have to elaborate beyond that. 

The other thing is that if you're looking for a "decent" RN job in the SF Bay Area, you'll need a few years of experience. They won't want to hire a new grad. Why do that when you can hire an experienced RN that you just have them do a quick orientation to the unit/floor and they're off and running? 

Halothane, some places in California really _are _that bad for new grad RNs. The flip side of that is that the RN workforce there is getting older. Eventually that workforce will have to experience a significant turnover rate. That may not even _begin_ to happen for a few more years.


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## Tigger (Aug 15, 2013)

I have found my college experience (or whatever you want to call it) to make for good conversation in interviews, but that's about it when it comes to getting the interview. As far as I can tell private ambulance companies could care less if you had a doctorate and were applying for EMT-B jobs.

At two my jobs no one cared that I had a degree either. However at county district that I currently work for, it has helped me a lot. We are trying to implement a community paramedic program and my political science background (lots of writing) has helped me to assist in its growth. I write letters, keep track of rudimentary surveys, and am starting to write grants. While this is not a job requirement, I think it sets me above the rest of our part time staff and may put me in position to get picked up fulltime if an opening comes up (not likely haha).


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## ghost02 (Aug 16, 2013)

Tigger, so a BA is something that would not be immediately helpful, but down the line when supervisor or higher positions are avalable, it would help?

Regardless of its assistance in getting me a job, I am going to get my BA for me, it would just be nice if it could help job-wise.


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## Medic Tim (Aug 16, 2013)

Is the term Graduate Nurse not used anymore? or do you lose that title once you take the NCLEX?


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## VFlutter (Aug 16, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> Is the term Graduate Nurse not used anymore? or do you lose that title once you take the NCLEX?



Most hospitals no longer hire Graduate Nurses. Traditionally, you would be hired as a Graduate Nurse after graduation and then begin orientation and training while studying for the NCLEX. There was usually a time limit on how long you could practice as a GN. Usually 30 or 60 days. However this is risky for the hospital since they spend thousands of dollars in training on people who may take multiple tries or never pass the test. So if a trained GN didn't pass the first try it may take months for them to retest and join the workforce. Or they would have to hire them as a Tech until they eventually passed. 

It is much easier for the hospital, especially in the current job market, to only hire new grads who have already passed. I took my NCLEX as soon as possible and got hired within a few weeks of graduation. Many of my friends who took months to study for the test did not have jobs when they passed since most hospitals only have new grad orientations every few months. 

We have a handful of techs that went to Nursing school but never actually became an RN.


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## Carlos Danger (Aug 16, 2013)

Chase said:


> We have a handful of techs that went to Nursing school but never actually became an RN.



Ouch.

I knew 1 person who never took the NCLEX after RN school. She was an excellent and loved tech on our unit.


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## Akulahawk (Aug 16, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> Is the term Graduate Nurse not used anymore? or do you lose that title once you take the NCLEX?


While new grads are "Graduate Nurses" they lose that once they take the NCLEX and that status is really just for hiring a new grad before they take the NCLEX anyway. California doesn't "do" the GN thing anyway... they use an "Interim Permit" so that a new grad can be hired and work in the traditional GN role. The IP expires in 180 days OR upon taking the NCLEX the first time.


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## Tigger (Aug 16, 2013)

ghost02 said:


> Tigger, so a BA is something that would not be immediately helpful, but down the line when supervisor or higher positions are avalable, it would help?
> 
> Regardless of its assistance in getting me a job, I am going to get my BA for me, it would just be nice if it could help job-wise.



Possibly, many places are moving towards having degreed management.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 18, 2013)

Halothane said:


> I've heard the job market for RN's was pretty tight in parts of CA; I didn't realize it was _that_ bad.



It is awful for new grads but if you have even one year of experience you can get a job no problem.  Many friends moved out of state or down to southern CA for a year or two and now are back in the Bay Area.


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## ChanelCinq (Aug 18, 2013)

Medic Tim said:


> Is the term Graduate Nurse not used anymore? or do you lose that title once you take the NCLEX?



I remember 5 years ago when I started my science pre-reqs (my first Bachelors was in French) Kaiser was offering an unpaid internship and everyone was balking at it.  Prior to that, maybe 7 plus years ago nurses got sign on bonuses when hired.  Ha those are gone.  But people were putting down this unpaid internship.  I think if you did it and proved yourself you were guaranteed a job.  Now, I think people would kill for that.  Now there are dozens or more applicants for each new grad position.

So no they don't have the graduate nurse position anymore because they don't need to.  There are more people coming out of more schools and they don't have to beg and bribe people any longer.

Though St Croix does have the graduate nurse position and you get 6 months to work as a graduate nurse and study for NCLEX.  If you don't pass you are out.  I don't think anyone would move to St Croix for that.


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## Antioch (Oct 11, 2013)

*Ba*

I'm glad you asked this. While working in Fire Rescue (still am), I earned a liberal arts BA just last August. I just wanted to know. I believe(d) in the idea of a well-rounded person. I'm convinced that it has armed me to look at life holistically instead of having to rely on others to guide my life and career decisions. 

I have to point out, that if you have a bachelor's degree of any sort, it puts you on track to become a Physician's Assistant. Just take the science pre-reqs, add in your EMT/PM hours, and boom, you're ready to go. Or, if you do EMT/PM work while doing the pre-reqs you'll gain the hours of experience required (usually a couple thousand) in order to get into PA school. 

I considered the above route, but in the end decided that a PA life would not be my cup of tea despite the monetary opportunities it offers.

Best of luck!


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## CodeBru1984 (Oct 12, 2013)

Tigger said:


> I have found my college experience (or whatever you want to call it) to make for good conversation in interviews, but that's about it when it comes to getting the interview. As far as I can tell private ambulance companies could care less if you had a doctorate and were applying for EMT-B jobs.



My new hire orientation class had at least 15 EMT's (including myself) who held bachelor's level degrees. From my understanding it made us standout from the 300+ applicants that had applied for 30 positions.


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## ms93 (Oct 24, 2013)

CodeBru1984 said:


> My new hire orientation class had at least 15 EMT's (including myself) who held bachelor's level degrees. From my understanding it made us standout from the 300+ applicants that had applied for 30 positions.



I had a similar experience. About half of the new hire group had a BA/BS. I don't think that it really makes a difference. A lot of the fire candidates don't need a bachelors and therefore won't get one. This doesn't make them less qualified for jobs or less competitive in the application process. I find that they have the same great clinical skills and judgement.

If ALL else is equal between two applicants, MAYBE it may be of value. Personally, I had a lot of good experiences during undergrad with internships, tutoring jobs, leadership positions that may have helped on paper and was something to talk about during my interview. At the end of the day, having previous EMT experience far surpasses having a BA/BS in terms of "standing out" when it comes to a 911 ALS position. 

Don't stress out about having a bachelors for getting an EMT job.


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## rescue1 (Oct 25, 2013)

ms93 said:


> If ALL else is equal between two applicants, MAYBE it may be of value. Personally, I had a lot of good experiences during undergrad with internships, tutoring jobs, leadership positions that may have helped on paper and was something to talk about during my interview. At the end of the day, having previous EMT experience far surpasses having a BA/BS in terms of "standing out" when it comes to a 911 ALS position.
> 
> Don't stress out about having a bachelors for getting an EMT job.



While I agree with not stressing, since you can totally get hired without one, I was hired over providers with way more experience thanks to my college degree, so I think it has more merit than a tie-breaker.

And about half my fire academy class had a bachelors of some kind. Did it help us get hired? No idea. But it is something to think about.


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## Emptythought (Nov 29, 2013)

good luck


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