# When and How do you use "Self Defense" on the truck?



## Basermedic159 (Feb 25, 2012)

When it appropriate to use "self defense" on the truck, and by what means of self defense do you utilize? Should EMS personnel be able to carry OC spray, ASP baton, taser or even a firearm?


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 25, 2012)

Contact Kip over at http://dt4ems.com/

Also, the subject of EMS being armed has come up on multiple occasions.  Here's a few that a quick search revealed
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=26399
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=26041
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=26863
http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=25178


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## Basermedic159 (Feb 25, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> Contact Kip over at http://dt4ems.com/
> 
> Also, the subject of EMS being armed has come up on multiple occasions.  Here's a few that a quick search revealed
> http://emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=26399
> ...



It's not just being armed. I wanted peoples opinions on when they will engage in a physical conflict with pt's and what they think warrants it. Not only that but I would like their take on the different "self defense" modalities different Fire/EMS personnel have or are willing to use when feeling threatened. I just threw EMS being armed in there to get takes on that as well.


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## Basermedic159 (Feb 25, 2012)

Basermedic159 said:


> It's not just being armed. I wanted peoples opinions on when they will engage in a physical conflict with pt's and what they think warrants it. Not only that but I would like their take on the different "self defense" modalities different Fire/EMS personnel have or are willing to use when feeling threatened. I just threw EMS being armed in there to get takes on that as well.



Thank you for the links too!


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## ffemt8978 (Feb 25, 2012)

Basermedic159 said:


> It's not just being armed. I wanted peoples opinions on when they will engage in a physical conflict with pt's and what they think warrants it. Not only that but I would like their take on the different "self defense" modalities different Fire/EMS personnel have or are willing to use when feeling threatened. I just threw EMS being armed in there to get takes on that as well.



Again, I strongly suggest you take a look at DT4EMS.  Kip is a member here, but hasn't logged in since December.  His program is specifically designed to deal with various aspects of self defense in EMS...including the legal aspects of it.


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## DesertMedic66 (Feb 25, 2012)

If I feel in danger then I will try to leave the scene ASAP. If im in the rig and my patient starts to get violent we pull over, dispatch PD, and the patient is free to leave the ambulance. If they don't want to leave the ambulance and want to start to fight then I have my metal clipboard, toughbook, and my partner to all help me until PD arrives.


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Feb 25, 2012)

What do you mean by engaging the patient?  Simply subduing and restraining or going at it in the back of the truck and choking the patient out and then restraining him?  Big difference there


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## JPINFV (Feb 25, 2012)

If you're in the back and need to defend yourself, your best bet is hand to hand. The dimensions are going to limit your ability to draw and aim a weapon (aren't police taught that a knife wins vs holstered firearm if the knife starts within 20 feet?), swing a collapsible baton (don't forget about drawing that too). OC spray isn't a good choice because it also needs to be drawn and it will affect everyone inside. Personally, I'm willing to bet that it affects me (who hasn't been exposed to OC before) than the person I'm aiming it at. 

Tasers, again issues with drawing it. It's also a one shot and done thing unless you have one that supports a "drive stun" option (think cattle prod type use).


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## Basermedic159 (Feb 25, 2012)

ffemt8978 said:


> Again, I strongly suggest you take a look at DT4EMS.  Kip is a member here, but hasn't logged in since December.  His program is specifically designed to deal with various aspects of self defense in EMS...including the legal aspects of it.



Ok i'll do that


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## DPM (Feb 25, 2012)

When ever I've been in a fight I've found that punching works well. Vigorous punching until your opponent is paralyzed, just to be sure. 

And if anyone says having a gun is the answer they'll be getting the same treatment


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## DrParasite (Feb 26, 2012)

I think every EMT should be issued a bazooka..... for self defense, just in case it's needed.


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## Smash (Feb 26, 2012)

DrParasite said:


> I think every EMT should be issued a bazooka..... for self defense, just in case it's needed.



As long as you can get a concealed carry permit.

In 14 years I have never "engaged" with a patient.  I've left the scene a fair few times, but never have fisticuffs ensued.

Has it come to fisticuffs I would have had to use my own concealed carry weapon:  







FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!


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## ATrain (Feb 26, 2012)

As stated, if it gets rowdy, I'm just going to back out and wait for a LEO.  If that's not an option, I'm extremely confident in my ability to handle myself and restrain the patient until help arrives or I'm able to get myself out of the situation.


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## Tigger (Feb 26, 2012)

For me the thing about this topic is that in the very vast majority of confrontations that those working in EMS end up in can be diffused with words. Yet so much time is spent on physical defense tactics and how to improvise weapons. Frankly I'd rather spend some time thinking about how to improve my talk down skills considering how much more often they are used. But I digress. 

Self defense is a little bit different for the EMS provider. In most cases, it should not be a fight, but rather a struggle for restraint. The best way to restrain someone is with a lot people, not by hitting them in the head with a portable 02 cylinder. I've never used my restraints in the field before because I do not trust that two people can restrain someone without an injury. I'd rather just talk them down or leave.


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## Melclin (Feb 26, 2012)

I was told once that every paramedic who gets smacked could have avoided it. I don't know that I agree with that entirely. However, I've been in quite a few fights outside of the job and I can confidently say that there was only one that I couldn't have avoided if I had just listened to the internal monologue that suggested walking away, shortly before it got bottled by another internal monologue that thought it was a good idea to sink 12 beers and call the biggest guy in the room a c**t. 

My point of course is that I think the vast majority of violence is avoidable if you actually _want_ to avoid it and you are not completely incapable of communicating politely with other human beings. Assuming you do and aren't, I still think a left hook can sometimes end up finding you anyway. In that case, maglites are long and heavy and my fear of getting sued/arrested/fired is not nearly as great as my fear of traumatic brain injuries, blood filled syringes and a lifetime of disability support payments.


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## Sasha (Feb 26, 2012)

DrParasite said:


> I think every EMT should be issued a bazooka..... for self defense, just in case it's needed.



Then dispatching would become the most dangerous job in the world


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## MSDeltaFlt (Feb 26, 2012)

If a scene has the potential for violence my dispatch will have me stage until LEO is on scene.  That being said, no scene is ever truly safe. For those situations how you conduct yourself plays a major role.  Those of us who are older (I'm now 42).  For some reason (my experience) most pts and/or bystanders tend to be more compliant/affable even if they're pissed off.

However, if things really go south I have no problem adopting the same philosophy of Monty Python in the Holy Grail: "Run away!  Run away"!


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## Handsome Robb (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm not a big guy 5'9" 150 lbs and I've been in a few situations where we ended up restraining a pt. My best advice is be wary of your surroundings. Don't let it escalate, try and take control before it gets to that point but if all else fails I have no problems grabbing someone's pinky and ring finger and twisting their arm up behind their back. They stop fighting real quick when they realize if they keep fighting they are going to break their own hand.


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## Shishkabob (Feb 26, 2012)

When?  When I'm in danger.


What?  Whatever I have to do, to end the threat to myself.   I will be the winner.   Most of the time that involves copious amounts of benzos and a few beefy firefighters.





As my medical director says, "Psych patients are just benzodiazepine deficient."


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## MedicBrew (Feb 26, 2012)

Linuss said:


> As my medical director says, "Psych patients are just benzodiazepine deficient."



:rofl:


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## Anonymous (Feb 26, 2012)

Linuss said:


> As my medical director says, "Psych patients are just benzodiazepine deficient."



haha this made me chuckle


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## DrankTheKoolaid (Feb 26, 2012)

*re*

Your best bet is to instead focus your time taking some verbal judo courses that law enforcement programs teach.  

Then and only then consider taking some trap lessons.  Remember, small joint manipulation does not typically work on drug induced delieriums and the truely psychotic patients.  For these you will need to move the the next superior joint IE wrist traps that way you can control their momentum and use it against them


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## Kidquick (Feb 26, 2012)

Although I pride myself on my 'verbal judo', I'll keep a 1000cc bag of NS within arm's reach if I get a certain feeling about a patient. I've never had to resort to it, but you can knock someone upside-down with one if you get enough of a wind-up.


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## Outbac1 (Feb 26, 2012)

For most situations the appropriate use of your mouth and body language is your best defense. Be careful when using your mouth as it can not only get you out of trouble but can also dig the hole deeper. Remember we tend to get many customers, (often near bars), that were talking when they should have been listening. 
  Leave when you can and let someone else (PD) handle the problem person. "Reasonable" force is always an option but is somewhat subjective. I feel it should only be used to extricate yourself from the situation  and not as a means of forcing someone to comply.


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## MedicBrew (Feb 26, 2012)

Kidquick said:


> Although I pride myself on my 'verbal judo', I'll keep a 1000cc bag of NS within arm's reach if I get a certain feeling about a patient. I've never had to resort to it, but you can knock someone upside-down with one if you get enough of a wind-up.



This actually works. just remember to keep the down port on the back side. Don't want to leave any marks. 

1000ml NS = the old Phone book trick!!

Not that I've ever done it.


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## Hockey (Feb 26, 2012)

Taser.  'Nuff said here


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## DrParasite (Feb 26, 2012)

Melclin said:


> I was told once that every paramedic who gets smacked could have avoided it.


sure.  just make sure every patient you have is handcuffed and leg shackled by PD before you get there.  

I always like people who say every fight can be avoided.  those who say it usually have a cop on scene for every EMS call before EMS arrives.  They are also the ones who say every EDP should be put in hard restraints for transport.  And they are also the ones who would be running the other way as their partner was getting assaulted by an EDP.

most assaults can be avoided.  leaving the scene is often the best way to avoid being assaulted.  the flip side is anyone still in the area (family members, children, innocent bystanders, people who are trying to help because they don't know any better) now stand to become victims for the assaulter.  That is also assuming the EMS crew can leave the scene, which isn't always possible.

In a perfect world, EMS would never never get involved in an unsafe scene.  unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.


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## systemet (Feb 27, 2012)

Basermedic159 said:


> It's not just being armed. I wanted peoples opinions on when they will engage in a physical conflict with pt's and what they think warrants it. Not only that but I would like their take on the different "self defense" modalities different Fire/EMS personnel have or are willing to use when feeling threatened. I just threw EMS being armed in there to get takes on that as well.



Opinions

* Only medics working on a tactical team should be armed, and only while performing that role.  

* Most situations where violence occurs, it's due to a failure to communicate and behave like a professional.

* Any time you have to wrestle / fight someone in the ambulance, your management is going to assume you have failed at the above.  

* You need to be able to motivate the level of violence you used.

I think it's only acceptable to attack someone if they have already engaged your partner, or if you believe they are attempting to access a weapon.  And even then you want to control them with the least amount of injury possible and then egress to a safe location.

Even in the back of the ambulance, there's nothing wrong with pulling over and just leaving and calling the cops.

Most of these discussion becomes pure fantasy very quickly.  In my opinion, you have two types of situation, the most common being where someone drunk / postictal / high / psychotic / unpleasant decides to shove you out of the way, or take a swing at you, or even bring out a weapon, but has limited intent / ability to actual injure you.  The other is when you think you're about to die.  There are different tools for both situations.  In the latter, you're going to do whatever it takes to stay alive and worry about the legal ramifications.  In the former, you might want to focus a little on keeping your job and staying out of jail.

Most people's concept of self-defence is taking an 8 hour class on pressure-point control tactics with some washed up Tae Kwan Do instructor every 2 years.  This isn't effective, in my opinion.  If you want to be able to physically defend yourself, it probably helps to be big and strong.  It might deter smaller people from attacking you (although this is assuming your assailant is rational, which is fairly unlikely in EMS).  You might want to practice some form of effective martial arts on a regular basis, e.g. wrestling, boxing, muay thai, judo, jiu jitsu, etc.  

The reality is, for most people working in EMS, this is too large a time commitment to prepare for a situation (a true life-or-death) struggle that is likely to actually ever occur.  You don't need to be robocop to be a paramedic, you just have to have a bit of basic situational awareness and a willingness to walk / talk away without getting your ego all butt-hurt.


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## MediMike (Feb 28, 2012)

Run.  Plain and simple.  Legally we have the ability to break contact with the patient and get the hell out.  I'm sure this depends on a state to state basis, but I'm not going to wrastle with a patient to get them to my cot without PD there.  

Someone starts getting frisky in the back of the rig? I yell "MOOSE IN THE ROAD", my partner slams the brakes while I hold on, the patient goes flying, and I get the hell out.  End of story


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## adamjh3 (Feb 28, 2012)

MediMike said:


> Run.  Plain and simple.  Legally we have the ability to break contact with the patient and get the hell out.  I'm sure this depends on a state to state basis, but I'm not going to wrastle with a patient to get them to my cot without PD there.
> 
> Someone starts getting frisky in the back of the rig? I yell "MOOSE IN THE ROAD", my partner slams the brakes while I hold on, the patient goes flying, and I get the hell out.  End of story



Running isn't always an option. If it's available it's usually the best, but not always.


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## mycrofft (Feb 28, 2012)

THIS would be a good time


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## MedicBrew (Feb 28, 2012)

In my law enforcement training, they called it “Escalation of force”.

1)	If they use hands, you use an impact weapon or OC spray.
2)	If they use an impact weapon, you use teaser or side arm. 

If you find yourself in the unfortunate circumstance of fearing bodily safety and/or for your life, you do what is necessary to go home at the end of your shift. I don’t understand the stance of “We’re here to help so we should not fight back” that some have. Yes we are here to help, but ultimately you goal should be to go home to the family. 

Keeping situational awareness does not always workout I’m sad to say, but you shouldn’t go looking to scrap with anyone that looks at you funny or shoves you, even if they are drunk. No one should have their hands tied to the point of fearing for their job or litigation over their life. If you lose your job for protecting yourself, then lose the job.

BUT if you can talk you way out of a fight, that is always the best approach.


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## CANMAN (Feb 28, 2012)

I agree with MedicBrew, while I am not ever going out and looking for trouble, as a EMS provider I will make every attempt to go home uninjured at the end of the shift, and also don't take a ton of crap from patients as I am there to help them not put up with their BS. 

If things get crappy then myself and my partner will leave. People get one attempt to cooperate in the back of the ambulance, otherwise law enforcement is transporting. I carry a 900 lumen flashlight, every call past dusk to light up my surroundings, rooms, etc and if it ever came to it a self defense tool that is right in my back pocket. 

I work in a pretty shady area and it is not uncommon to just happen upon scenes that according to dispatch should be safe but clearly aren't. Example: Last November, dispatched for ped struck in a neighborhood called "Strawberry Hills" doesn't get a PD responce but stood out because the time of night (2am) and the neighborhoods reputation. Arrived on location and we have Little Johns identical brother face down on the pavement with two GSW to the chest  At this point your already in the hotzone, and these kind of situations happen......Luckily for us we moved back to the unit, GTFO until LE arrived, and then went to work.


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## airbornemedic11 (May 25, 2012)

*Escalation of force*

You have every right to defend yourself. Yes, over-regulation and company procedures could interfere with that, such as carrying a side arm, baton, OC spray. Your question is very general, but every situation that calls for escalation of force is different. My general thought process is, I'm going home to my family at the end of my shift, in one piece. Can I avoid the situation? Do I have back up? Is my life or anyone else's in danger? Everyone reacts differently to different situations and even the same situation. I could run 10 different soldiers through the same scenario and get 10 different responses.
Generally, don't overdo it. Use only as much force as necessary to de-escalate the situation. Hooah.


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## newenglandeve (Jun 5, 2012)

Tigger said:


> In most cases, it should not be a fight, but rather a struggle for restraint. The best way to restrain someone is with a lot people, not by hitting them in the head with a portable 02 cylinder. I've never used my restraints in the field before because I do not trust that two people can restrain someone without an injury.



Tigger,
As a matter of fact, there is documentation in the healthcare field that it takes a minimum of 5, properly trained and equipped staff members, to perform a restraint safely.  And you are right to not use the O2 tank, as it can be equivalent to Deadly Force.

I agree with your idea about verbal de-escalation, however there are circumstances when some people can't "hear" you, whether from drugs or psychosis, which is why a Defensive Tactics training that covers all aspects of protecting your self is a good idea.

Stay Safe, 
newenglandeve


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## newenglandeve (Jun 5, 2012)

*"Escalation of Force"*



MedicBrew said:


> In my law enforcement training, they called it “Escalation of force”.
> 
> 1)	If they use hands, you use an impact weapon or OC spray.
> 2)	If they use an impact weapon, you use teaser or side arm.



MedicBrew,
It is my understanding that the Escalation of Force concept is only applicable to law enforcement personnel.  At the civilian level, you must utilize the same level of force, i.e. if they use hands, you use hands, if they use a weapon, you may use a weapon.

I'll look and see if I can find where this info came from, but I believe it to be accurate.

Stay Safe,
NewEnglandEVE


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## airbornemedic11 (Jun 5, 2012)

newenglandeve said:


> MedicBrew,
> It is my understanding that the Escalation of Force concept is only applicable to law enforcement personnel. At the civilian level, you must utilize the same level of force, i.e. if they use hands, you use hands, if they use a weapon, you may use a weapon.
> 
> I'll look and see if I can find where this info came from, but I believe it to be accurate.
> ...


 
Negative, this is incorrect. Imagine a 280lb man high on meth mugging a 120lb woman using only his bare hands. Are you trying to tell me she can only defend herself with her hands because he is not using a weapon? This applies to law enforcement and civilians. You can use the minimal amount of force necessary to de-escalate the situation and/or protect yourself or anyone else. If you think you can bring that guy down with a shot of OC spray, go for it. If you think that might not work so you jump to your handy .357, use it. But you better be able to convince a jury that using a handgun was the minimal amount of force that was necessary at the time to de-escalate that situation. The magic phrase is "I was in fear of my life. I thought I was going to die."


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## newenglandeve (Jun 5, 2012)

airbornemedic11 said:


> But you better be able to convince a jury that using a handgun was the minimal amount of force that was necessary at the time to de-escalate that situation. The magic phrase is "I was in fear of my life. I thought I was going to die."



You hit the nail on the head with this statement right here.  I apologize if I was unclear on my explanation.  I meant in a fair fight.  If a 90lb Female is getting choked out by a 300lb male for example, then it would easily be found to be *REASONABLE* for her to "up" her level of defense.

It will ultimately come down to what a "reasonable person, placed in the same circumstances, would have done."  And a "jury of your peers" will basically be deciding if they would have done the same thing if they were placed in your shoes.

Thank you for pointing that out Airbornemedic11, does this make more sense now?

Stay Safe,
NewEnglandEVE


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## DT4EMS (Jun 7, 2012)

newenglandeve said:


> You hit the nail on the head with this statement right here.  I apologize if I was unclear on my explanation.  I meant in a fair fight.  If a 90lb Female is getting choked out by a 300lb male for example, then it would easily be found to be *REASONABLE* for her to "up" her level of defense.
> 
> It will ultimately come down to what a "reasonable person, placed in the same circumstances, would have done."  And a "jury of your peers" will basically be deciding if they would have done the same thing if they were placed in your shoes.
> 
> ...




Heya Matt! Glad to see you posting in here! 

BTW........ have you noticed how the threads like these always turn to lethal force (firearm) carry and or use?

Here is the question I pose to all here..........

Why is it that many in administration don't feel it is necessary to train their staff in personal protection but many front line staff wish to carry a firearm?

Why is there such a gap here?

I can give some reasons "I" believe this gap exists.......

1) Failure to report incidents of assault (to supervisors or law enforcement)

2) Mocking by senior staff (joking about assaults)

3) Assaults seen as part of the job

4) Staff stating admin won't back them- Funny (as in ironic)- when I meet with their admin state the safety of their staff is what is most important.

5) Probably the most important- Not separating/defining the difference between a "patient" and an "attacker/aggressor".  I love when I have people in EMS who describe a "fight in the back of the ambulance" and they are really describing an uncooperative patient......

A fight requires TWO COMBATANTS.... meaning two people that want to fight!

Self-defense in EMS is unique. It is not a fight. You are either treating in uncooperative patient who is confused due to a true medical or traumatic event......or you have to defend yourself and ESCAPE and attacker. We ESCAPE from the attacker.....not try and stay too long calling them a "patient".


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## ZootownMedic (Jun 10, 2012)

Linuss said:


> When?  When I'm in danger.
> 
> 
> What?  Whatever I have to do, to end the threat to myself.   I will be the winner.   Most of the time that involves copious amounts of benzos and a few beefy firefighters.
> ...



I like the sentiment but sometimes if you go the benzo route they will just end up being oxygen deficient after you knock out their respiratory drive......the only benzo we carry at the moment is Versed(we also carry Haldol but that seems to be worthless in the field with short transport times) so maybe my opinion is a little skewed. I would rather restrain them and if necessary give them some small amounts of versed vs. copious amounts. Haldol and Benadryl is always an option too and seems to work relatively well in most cases.


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## ZootownMedic (Jun 10, 2012)

airbornemedic11 said:


> Negative, this is incorrect. Imagine a 280lb man high on meth mugging a 120lb woman using only his bare hands. Are you trying to tell me she can only defend herself with her hands because he is not using a weapon? This applies to law enforcement and civilians. You can use the minimal amount of force necessary to de-escalate the situation and/or protect yourself or anyone else. If you think you can bring that guy down with a shot of OC spray, go for it. If you think that might not work so you jump to your handy .357, use it. But you better be able to convince a jury that using a handgun was the minimal amount of force that was necessary at the time to de-escalate that situation. The magic phrase is "I was in fear of my life. I thought I was going to die."



Yep thats true. Cops and civilians alike have fired on unarmed people more than once and it was usually because they were outnumbered or the perp tried to grab their weapon. If you go for a cops weapon at all he can kill you without having to do much explaining.


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## usalsfyre (Jun 10, 2012)

SmokeMedic said:


> I like the sentiment but sometimes if you go the benzo route they will just end up being oxygen deficient after you knock out their respiratory drive......the only benzo we carry at the moment is Versed(we also carry Haldol but that seems to be worthless in the field with short transport times) so maybe my opinion is a little skewed. I would rather restrain them and if necessary give them some small amounts of versed vs. copious amounts. Haldol and Benadryl is always an option too and seems to work relatively well in most cases.



If the only "depressant" on board is a benzo your pretty darn unlikely to completely knock out their respiratory drive. Benzos rely on endogenous GABA...there's only so much of that floating around. Not to mention agitated patients don't have much of that system activated anyway, so it may require larger than normal amounts to ramp it up. If they need it throw them on a NC and fix it. Your patient is much more likely to end up oxygen deficient at the cellular level (where it really counts) struggling against restrains while inadequately sedated.

Plus, you've got multiple tools to fix hypoxemia from a depressed respiratory drive. How well can you fix lactic acidosis, rhabdo and hyperthermia? As a profession we've really got to stop being afraid if sedation.

I've given upwards of 20mgs of versed over a 20 minute transport and never seen someone stop breathing. If there's enough stimulation they need that much it's unlikely they're going to crump from a respiratory drive issue.


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## Shishkabob (Jun 10, 2012)

SmokeMedic said:


> If you go for a cops weapon at all he can kill you without having to do much explaining.



Heck, you go for their TASER and they can shoot to kill.




usalsfyre said:


> I've given upwards of 20mgs of versed over a 20 minute transport and never seen someone stop breathing. If there's enough stimulation they need that much it's unlikely they're going to crump from a respiratory drive issue.



Remember the amount of Versed and Ativan we carried at ol' Burgandy?  Gave darn near all of it once to a status epilecticus, and she still had decent ventilatory effort in between the seizures.


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## Basermedic159 (Jul 22, 2012)

SmokeMedic said:


> I like the sentiment but sometimes if you go the benzo route they will just end up being oxygen deficient after you knock out their respiratory drive......the only benzo we carry at the moment is Versed(we also carry Haldol but that seems to be worthless in the field with short transport times) so maybe my opinion is a little skewed. I would rather restrain them and if necessary give them some small amounts of versed vs. copious amounts. Haldol and Benadryl is always an option too and seems to work relatively well in most cases.



I would rather them be oxygen deficient AND knock out their respiratory drive with benzos, and just add a paralytic to the mix, rather than them 'permanently' knock out myself or my partners. I've had about a 120 lb female PT high on amphetamines and a bunch of other drugs. This pt was combative and VERY violent. We unloaded almost our entire narc box on her. We gave Versed, IM Haldol, Valium, Etomidate and even fentanyl I believe. After all these meds, she was still fighting us. This was back before we a true RSI. We only had Etomidate, Versed and Fentanyl to "RSI." If that would have happened now, she would get Versed, Sucs and Roc. That'll do the trick!h34r:


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## jameswf (Jul 22, 2012)

I have carried since I was of legal age to do so. In my daily life I carry concieled. I am a big advocate of the need and inherant right to defend one's self.  In 9 years of being armed I have drawn my weapon in defense exactly 0 times.  I have had it out to clear a house a few times but never pointed it at anyone.  Now In the same period of time I have been in several confrontations. I am a big guy who towers 6'4" and 300lbs.  When your a big guy people seem to have something to prove and you become the focus (WTF). I am not a fan of being hit and I am not motivated enough to go punch for punch with anywone. In these sort of cases I use pressure points and control. I will sit on someone until help arives anyday.  I also have a bi-polar son who stands 6' tall 230lbs and he is generally well controlled. The beauty of bi-polar is that if something triggers he becomes a raging linebacker in the blink of an eye. For obvious reasons I am not going to box it out with my kid.  These situations are all handlesd with simple control no need for anything more especially not a gun.   I think EMS carrying guns would be counter productive.  The first rule of gun's is don't point it at anything you don't want to kill. It is not your job to kill people so voids out the whole purpose of a gun.  I think you learn the pressure points and maybe throw in a bear hug. should cover 90% of situations. Also if you have the choice run away. I would rather be an alive coward than a dead tough guy.


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