# Prevailing Wage - How much does it pay?



## itzfrank (Apr 19, 2010)

How much do they pay medics in your area?

Ours Varies between whether or not your union, basically.

Non-Union Companies pay 10-12/hr for EMT-Ps and 8-9/hr for EMT-Bs
Union Companies pay 13-15/hr for P's and around 9-10/hr for B's
Very rarely does a place pay extra for NREMT status or any certs.

This is in the central IL region. There are obviously some big differences between companies and situations. These are just general ranges. I'd like to hear what other areas are paying.


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## 46Young (Apr 19, 2010)

itzfrank said:


> How much do they pay medics in your area?
> 
> Ours Varies between whether or not your union, basically.
> 
> ...



How many average hours a week? 40, 42, 53, 56, 72?


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## 46Young (Apr 19, 2010)

NYC BLS gets 9-13 an hour IFT, and 15-22 or so for 911. Medics (no I's) get 19-23 an hour IFT, and 22-35 for hosp based 911. 40 hour workweek.

FDNY EMS salaries (not that great) :
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny//html/community/ems_employment.shtml#paramedic_salary

Charleston County EMS, SC, 38k/yr on a 24/48 to start, 45k after six months, up to 68k in ten years. BLS in the 20's on the 24/48. No difference in either case for part timers. 

Northern VA, IFT BLS, 9-11/hr, 13-17/hr for ALS (EMT-I, EMT-P). Schedules vary. Single role fire based is around 42k/yr, 24 hrs WOOWOOOO, 42 hour week I think. Fire based EMT's get 40-48k to start, up to 70-80k, typically a 56 hour week, or a 24/48 with kellys. ALS, 48-53k base, 5-8k in riding pay, and another 5k or so in cert pay. My dept, with all incentives, pays around 65k/yr for a released ALS provider right out of the academy.

RAA in Richmond advertises 15/hr to start for new medics, more DOE. BLS or IFT I don't know.


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## EMSLaw (Apr 19, 2010)

That's insultingly little...


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## medic417 (Apr 19, 2010)

EMSLaw said:


> That's insultingly little...



Why?  There is basically no education required and there is a flood of emt's and Paramedics on the market.  What other job pays so much for so little true expertise and education?


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## itzfrank (Apr 19, 2010)

56/week for us usually. Although I notice more and more of us work 2 24/48 jobs.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 19, 2010)

Company I just got hired on with is 24,500 a year. Hourly depends on what shift you're working. If you're on 48hrs/week, you make less and hour than someone working 4 10s/wk


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## Aerin-Sol (Apr 19, 2010)

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes292041.htm

gov averages


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## 46Young (Apr 19, 2010)

medic417 said:


> Why?  There is basically no education required and there is a flood of emt's and Paramedics on the market.  What other job pays so much for so little true expertise and education?



Administrative Assistant, DSNY, or garbage man any other sanitation dept, truck driver, city bus driver, basically the majority of civil service tests. The pay isn't great, but the trade off is that you get a great retirement, benefits, medical, etc. It's troubling that municipal employee pension benefits are being targeted in an attempt to shift the blame from the banks and businesses that got us into our economic issues.

As far as education and such, it's really up to the employer, since EMS as a whole lacks unity and organization. One the one hand, these employers could look at the overabundant supply and require medics to have degrees and such, along with spotless backgrounds. On the other hand, these employers can give the bare minimum in pay and benefits possible so long as there are enough applicants willing to take the positions of those that look for better opportunities. That's how EMS is at the moment. Employers on the average would rather pay less and take anyone with a pulse and a patch rather than compensate for legitimate college education. Some might give 2-3% of yearly base for degrees, but not having one is certainly not a barrier to employment at the moment.


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## 46Young (Apr 19, 2010)

I'll likely take a ton of heat for this....

I've noticed an trend for increased educational requirements in the fire service in the form of degrees. Right now it's for promotions. It varies by dept, but more and more are requiring degrees as a condition for career advancement. There are typically an overabundance of qualified applicants for every vacant fire and fire/EMS vacancy. 

Since the trend of requiring degrees for career development has been steadily growing within the fire service, it's only a matter of time before the larger and most desireable depts will start requiring EMS degrees for entry level firemedics, and maybe fire science degrees for basic FF's.

The major barrier to requiring degrees as a condition for employment would be racial quota hiring. That would be more on the FF side than the firemedic side, anyway. If I had to bet the farm, I would wager that fire/EMS will require EMS degrees much earlier than the balance of the EMS industry, Oregon, SoCal, Houston, and FL notwithstanding. I haven't seen much of a trend towards degree requirements outside of Oregon. Maybe at the top of the food chain, as in the director or Asst director, but certainly not at the field provider or middle management. I'm sure there are statistical outliers to the contrary, but degree requirements in EMS are far from standard practice.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 19, 2010)

It depends fully on where you live if the wage is good or not.  $20 in NYC cannot be compared to $15 in Texas, because Texas has a lower standard of living.


EMTs in DFW start between $8-11/hr.  Medics start $13-16/hr brand new.  Fire/medics are $16-20.


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## 46Young (Apr 19, 2010)

Linuss said:


> It depends fully on where you live if the wage is good or not.  $20 in NYC cannot be compared to $15 in Texas, because Texas has a lower standard of living.
> 
> 
> EMTs in DFW start between $8-11/hr.  Medics start $13-16/hr brand new.  Fire/medics are $16-20.



If that's based on a 56 hour workweek, then that's pretty good.


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## subliminal1284 (Apr 19, 2010)

Up here in the Milwaukee area Basics are averaging around $10/hr and Paramedics are at about $15/hr


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## subliminal1284 (Apr 19, 2010)

medic417 said:


> Why?  There is basically no education required and there is a flood of emt's and Paramedics on the market.  What other job pays so much for so little true expertise and education?



But you have to consider there are many jobs paying more than that with no training whatsoever required besides a High School Diploma so yes even though there are many emts and paramedics that doesnt equate to why the pay is so low. To put it into perspective the taco bell here is starting employees out at $9/hr. Simply put the pay is low because the employers are cheap.


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## TransportJockey (Apr 19, 2010)

subliminal1284 said:


> But you have to consider there are many jobs paying more than that with no training whatsoever required besides a High School Diploma so yes even though there are many emts and paramedics that doesnt equate to why the pay is so low. To put it into perspective the taco bell here is starting employees out at $9/hr. Simply put the pay is low because the employers are cheap.



My thinking is that pay is low because there are a glut of EMTs. Think about it. Each school/mill puts out a class every six months (10-30, or more). Every one of them wants to go out and play with the lights and sirens right away. 

Now you look at fast food and a lot of people look at it as a kid job or a last ditch job. They offer more because it's harder to find people to work for them.


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## medic417 (Apr 19, 2010)

Linuss said:


> It depends fully on where you live if the wage is good or not.  $20 in NYC cannot be compared to $15 in Texas, because Texas has a* lower standard of living*.
> 
> 
> EMTs in DFW start between $8-11/hr.  Medics start $13-16/hr brand new.  Fire/medics are $16-20.



What?  Surely you mean lower cost of living.  The standard of living is much higher in Texas but cost is less.  

As to pay in my area of Texas Paramedics get about $20 per hour all hours paid, plus great benefits, no money wasted on union fees,  quality communities to live in, low cost of living, not part of fire, ..............


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## Shishkabob (Apr 19, 2010)

medic417 said:


> What?  Surely you mean lower cost of living.  The standard of living is much higher in Texas but cost is less.
> 
> As to pay in my area of Texas Paramedics get about $20 per hour all hours paid, plus great benefits, no money wasted on union fees,  quality communities to live in, low cost of living, not part of fire, ..............



Oh, my bad.  Cost, I meant cost!

AHHH!!


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## usafmedic45 (Apr 19, 2010)

itzfrank said:


> How much do they pay medics in your area?
> 
> Ours Varies between whether or not your union, basically.
> 
> ...



When I worked in east central Illinois (1999-2001) at good services we were making $15-18 an hour for P's (new grads pretty much....the more experienced guys with 15+ years of experience at the same service were making a little more than $18-20....never bothered to ask), $10-12 for I's and basically minimum wage or a little above for Bs.  The pay scale for good services was similar across the river in Indiana, but the again there were far more services around the area (in both states) paying significantly less and that treated their employees like crap (*cough* Transcare in Terre Haute *cough*)

Union status had no factor and in fact, I would never work for an unionized service simply because I believe it is immoral for healthcare professionals to unionize (or more appropriately, to strike which I have seen several times before in hospitals). Remember as well, that the difference in pay (particularly if it is only a dollar or two an hour) is going to be largely eaten up by union dues and such.


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## atropine (Apr 19, 2010)

most fire/medics in southern Cali make over 100k a year with overtime.


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## MrBrown (Apr 19, 2010)

Ambulance Technician $52,000 ($36,400 USD)
Paramedic $57,200 ($40,000 USD)
Intensive Care Paramedic $64,400 ($45,000 USD)

All are for a 48 hour week (4x12 hrs shifts) and no overtime.

It's increasingly difficult to get onboard as an Ambulance Technician and with the move toward the Degree ("Paramedic") as the minimum standard for career entry now it's only going to get harder.


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## EMSLaw (Apr 20, 2010)

medic417 said:


> Why?  There is basically no education required and there is a flood of emt's and Paramedics on the market.  What other job pays so much for so little true expertise and education?



So much?  Most jobs that require anything more than a pulse pay at least as much as EMTs seem to get, and Paramedic is, at least around here, a significant educational investment.  

Don't get me wrong - I could point out that my first job out of law school was as a judge's law clerk making $35K for a one-year term appointment.  After seven years of higher education.  

Private company EMTs here make in the $13-15 hour range, and seem to mostly work 4 12-hour shifts.  One of the several Jersey medics who post here can speak to MICP salaries better than I can, but they vary by project.  MONOC pays the least, but I've been told has somewhat better benefits.  UMDNJ is a government employer.

Incidentally, I think Lakewood Township EMS, which was one of the first municipal BLS services hereabouts, was until recently one of the highest paid services in the country.  They had to give back significant concessions to avoid being shut down, though.


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## usafmedic45 (Apr 20, 2010)

> could point out that my first job out of law school was as a judge's law clerk making $35K for a one-year term appointment. After seven years of higher education.


Which reminds me why law school quickly disappeared from my list of options when I started looking to get out of clinical medicine.  Well, that and my flexible ethics probably would not be a good idea in a lawyer....



> Private company EMTs here make in the $13-15 hour range, and seem to mostly work 4 12-hour shifts.



Of course, you also have to look at the astronomical cost of living....


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## EMSLaw (Apr 20, 2010)

usafmedic45 said:


> Which reminds me why law school quickly disappeared from my list of options when I started looking to get out of clinical medicine.  Well, that and my flexible ethics probably would not be a good idea in a lawyer....
> 
> Of course, you also have to look at the astronomical cost of living....



Eh, a clerkship isn't the same as a residency, but it's a similar concept, so you have to suck it up and take the low pay for a year or two.  Things get better from there.

And yes, the cost of living is astronomical.  Most EMTs I know work two or three jobs.


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## Veneficus (Apr 20, 2010)

46Young said:


> I'll likely take a ton of heat for this....
> 
> I've noticed an trend for increased educational requirements in the fire service in the form of degrees. Right now it's for promotions. It varies by dept, but more and more are requiring degrees as a condition for career advancement..



I can't see why anyone would give you heat for this, it sounds quite smart.




46Young said:


> There are typically an overabundance of qualified applicants for every vacant fire and fire/EMS vacancy.



Not a whole lot in the way of qualifications really. Every fire test I ever took required a GED and sometimes an EMT B or medic card. Cities could save thousands by shortlisting only people with degrees to take a written or physical. Not to mention, while a degree does not confer ability, chances are a person with a degree may have heard or remember something smart occasionally that could be used to make a more informed decision. 




46Young said:


> Since the trend of requiring degrees for career development has been steadily growing within the fire service, it's only a matter of time before the larger and most desireable depts will start requiring EMS degrees for entry level firemedics, and maybe fire science degrees for basic FF's..



I have reviewed some of the fire science texts, they are not anymore worthy of a college degree than the current EMT texts. If I was hiring or promoting firefighters I would ask for a chemistry, physics, or polytechnic degree (like engineering) imagine the hazmat and rescue teams you could develop with that!



46Young said:


> The major barrier to requiring degrees as a condition for employment would be racial quota hiring..



Just my opinion but I think a degree requirement trumps racial requirements, otherwise you could find yourself desperately sort of professionals in many parts of government.


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## 46Young (Apr 21, 2010)

Veneficus said:


> I can't see why anyone would give you heat for this, it sounds quite smart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As far as qualifications I was referring to those who could pass the simple entrance exam, CPAT, medical, psych, and poly. I agree that this isn't really a whole lot in the way of qualifications. I agree that cities and counties could save thousands by giving preference in hiring for job related degrees, if not making it a condition of employment altogether. It baffles me why this isn't standard practice, especially with the increased application and fewer available positions within EMS and the fire service. Many PD's require two year degrees to be hired.

As far as quota hiring, look at the FDNY as a prime example. They used to require two years of college, then one, then nothing. The Vulcans just won a case recently saying that the (overly simplified and purposefully unbiased) entrance exam was discriminatory towards blacks. The FDNY EMS > FDNY FF promotion is a process purposefully created for minorities to circumvent the hiring process, just like dropping college was supposed to create more opportunity for the same protected class. Apparently they feel that their race is too dumb to be able to amass any college credits or score well on an exam. If I were black, I'd be highly offended and mortified by the position and actions of the Vulcans and the opposition of the NewHaven20. I feel it's a great thing that the NewHaven20 case went the way it did. Merit matters. I feel everyone should be equal, and be hired fairly and on merit. Problems arise when certain groups feel that they should be "more equal" than others.

Yes, chem, physics or polytech degrees would make for some sick Hazmat and TROT teams.

A degree ought to trump racial requirements. The problem is, as is the case of NYC, the courts value quota hiring over merit.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 21, 2010)

46Young said:


> If that's based on a 56 hour workweek, then that's pretty good.



Typical schedule for ALS trucks at AMR for where I'm working is two week days and every other Fri/Sat/Sun, so 24hr one week and 60 the next.


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## 46Young (Apr 21, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Typical schedule for ALS trucks at AMR for where I'm working is two week days and every other Fri/Sat/Sun, so 24hr one week and 60 the next.



That's a great way to do a 42 hour/wk schedule. 

I do hope you're trying to get into a muni third service if you're looking to do EMS as a long term career. Drop all the apps you can.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 21, 2010)

Trust me, I have no intention at doing IFT a year from now, even if it means moving from DFW.

I've been trying to get on with MedStar who does most of Tarrant county, but Paula is never in her office when I call for a followup.  AMR does Arlington 911, but they aren't looking for medics right now.  CareFlite said try again in a few months, but they are primarily IFT with only a few lucky people getting to do 911.  Most of the Dallas side is fire based.

I applied to Wise county, Rockwall County (dual medic) and Granbury/Hood county EMS.  I should probably apply to ATcEMS as well.



Thought I'd take the IFT job at AMR for a bit as it's money, experience, I can do standby events for some acute experience, and I can then more easily transfer to one of their local 911 areas when a spot opens.


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## 46Young (Apr 21, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Trust me, I have no intention at doing IFT a year from now, even if it means moving from DFW.
> 
> I've been trying to get on with MedStar who does most of Tarrant county, but Paula is never in her office when I call for a followup.  AMR does Arlington 911, but they aren't looking for medics right now.  CareFlite said try again in a few months, but they are primarily IFT with only a few lucky people getting to do 911.  Most of the Dallas side is fire based.
> 
> ...



I understand, smart move. What I was getting at is that private employers can pack up and leave, or be replaced by municipal services quite easily. I'd be wary of hospitals as well. They seem to be dropping like flies lately. However, if you want to change careers and go to school, the hospitals would be the most likely to work with your schedule.

You could make 911 at AMR, go muni third service, and then do AMR 911 and/or IFT after dropping down to per diem.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 21, 2010)

Apparently AMR just lost Alameda County out in Cali...

Which is why I'm looking at ATcEMS... well respected around here and great wages / benefits.  But along with that comes stiff competition... the kind of competition I don't see overcoming as a new grad medic. 


But MedStar here in Fort Worth has been around since 1986.  I believe they are a community service model, so they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.  I had a blast riding for them as a basic student which is why I've been trying to get on as a medic. But nooooooo h34r:


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## rhan101277 (Apr 21, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Typical schedule for ALS trucks at AMR for where I'm working is two week days and every other Fri/Sat/Sun, so 24hr one week and 60 the next.



I was hoping for some overtime if I can get on with AMR after school.  I will need it if I want to do a career change.  If not it is part-time for me.  I may go work for metro ambulance up in Lauderdale county as well.

Over here in Jackson, AMR is wide open on over time.


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## Shishkabob (Apr 21, 2010)

Back when I was an EMT I had access to the scheduling website where we could sign up for extra open shifts, like on a normal truck or standby.  There were always shifts open, especially for standby.


I was looking at doing part time so I could go back and finish my EMS degree (only 1 semester left) but they were primarily looking for full time, which is ok considering the weekdays are either Mon/Wed or Tues/Thurs, and the college near by does the same type of class schedule.


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## Aprz (Apr 22, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Apparently AMR just lost Alameda County out in Cali...
> 
> Which is why I'm looking at ATcEMS... well respected around here and great wages / benefits.  But along with that comes stiff competition... the kind of competition I don't see overcoming as a new grad medic.
> 
> ...


Hm, are you sure? I Googled about it and I read that won't be decided until April 27th. Apparently to Paramedic Plus? In Santa Clara county, I heard AMR might lose their contract to Paramedic Plus there too...


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## Browncoat (Apr 25, 2010)

Where do you work in central Illinois?


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