# Stretched ears in the EMS profession



## Pittsburgh77 (Dec 16, 2009)

*First; I would like to clearly state that I do NOT have my ears pierced OR stretched nor do I have any visible piercings.*

I'm looking for some input from other EMS professionals about getting my ears pierced and stretched. I currently work as an EMT-B in PA, and I am also a volunteer firefighter. I'm moderatly tattooed [none visible in uniform] and slowly getting into piercing [only have my tongue now, and will be getting my nipples pierced as of tomorrow or Thursday afternoon]

So, with that said; I am thinking about stretching my ears to about 1/2". Does anyone here forsee any problems I will encounter with these as a paramedic student [as of January 11th]

For those who don't know what "stretched ears" here are a few examples:






-This is aprox. the size I would like to get my ears to.
http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1865/8510734/18044016/379661846.jpg





-These ears are 1", not exactly what I want. I only added this picture for a good example of what stretched ears are
http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1865/8510734/18044016/379661883.jpg

(Added direct picture links, if for some reason the pictures didn't show up on here)

So please give me some constructive feedback and personal opinions. Thanks, Adam.


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## Smash (Dec 16, 2009)

Unfortunately yes, I do forsee problems with getting your ears stretched.  Some people may object to such adornments, and unfortunately these people may or may not be your future employers.  I don't personally have a problem with these, but be aware that they may not be the image that a company wants to present to it's customers.

Personally I would wait until such time as you have sought and obtained employment, before reassessing whether it is something you want to get done.  Like it or not, right or wrong, it may have a negative effect on you gaining employment in EMS.


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## Pittsburgh77 (Dec 16, 2009)

Hmm, yeah thanks for the speedy response!

At my current company they do have a facial piercing policy in place excluding tongue rings, but we are allowed to have visible tattoos at the owners discretion. However, I'll be leaving this company at the end of this fall semester once I move back home to start paramedic class.

I will keep your opinion in mind for my future decsions.


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## DrParasite (Dec 16, 2009)

I wouldn't.  like it or not, having a paramedic (or potential hire) showing up to an interview with 1/2 inch holes in their ears would def be a negative mark in my book.

nothing wrong with nipples, nothing wrong with tongue as long as you can talk normally, and nothing wrong with anything hidable.  

heck, if you want to poke a hole in anything, go for it, even if it's eyebrow, lips, nose, and scrotum.  however, all these things can be removed and hidden, or at least their appearance can be minimize.

a stretched ear that I can hang a caribeener though?  not so.


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## JPINFV (Dec 16, 2009)

It comes down to a professional appearance issue. Putting holes in your ears does not present a professional image and is something that most companies are going to consider greatly when considering who to hire. Direct customer service positions (such as any medical field that directly interacts with patients) is conservative in nature.


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## Tyler Bruns (Dec 16, 2009)

I am surprised that you are even allowed to have plugged ears. A kid in my classes was dropped because he had them and chose keeping them over getting them surgically repaired.


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## mcdonl (Dec 16, 2009)

I have no piercings, but I have a considerable amount of tattoo's.... But, they are all on my arms, and none go to my wrist. When I am go to my day job, or an EMS job I wear long sleeve shirts because I know it makes some people uncomfortable.

I do not think that ones desires for self expression should interfere with a patients need to be comfortable. Because of this, I think that if you get into this field you need to make sacrifices and this would be one of them.

In my opinion.


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## mcdonl (Dec 16, 2009)

> I am surprised that you are even allowed to have plugged ears. A kid in my classes was dropped because he had them and chose keeping them over getting them surgically repaired.



I live in Maine, I do not even know what this means. What are plugged ears? I know my kids seem to have them from time to time as they never listen....


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## Tincanfireman (Dec 16, 2009)

Your profile picture(s) are fire-related; how is gauging your ears going to affect that? I can assure you that the day you showed up in my station (volunteer or career) with rings in your ears would be your last. Nothing personal, but I don't know any departments that would allow it due to the additional risk of getting snagged on something. In most FD's I've worked in, males wearing earrings are discouraged from doing so, and females only wear the posts with small adornments. It may well come down to a choice betweeen your choice of personal expression and a paycheck.


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## Aidey (Dec 16, 2009)

There is an RN at one of the hospitals where I am that has his ears stretched.


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## Piper76 (Dec 16, 2009)

I have several tattoos (not visible unless in shorts or shirtless) and my ears are pierced normally. Although my boss, or anyone in my office, does not care at about me wearing them, I choose not to because I want to represent the company in the best way possible. I will not be wearing them in class either, as I don't feel they are appropriate in a learning environment. 

I just think there is a time and place for everything, and in today's job climate why chance it.


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## mcdonl (Dec 16, 2009)

Piper, I like the pic... I am the Highland Games athletics director for the large games in my State.

Ok.. sorry... carry on...


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## Piper76 (Dec 16, 2009)

Cheers! Piping has become a HUGE part of my life in the short time I have done it. I play in 2 bands and am looking to join a 3rd, as well as solo comps, EMT class, etc, etc...

Super, super, busy, but loving it!


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## VentMedic (Dec 16, 2009)

Not only are they visually unprofessional in appearance, they can also present a safety issue just like hoop earrings.   The tearing of the earlobe is bad enough when  just a child grabs a hoop earring on a pierced ear.  I can not imagine what would happen if a confused adult grabbed the ear lobe of an EMT sporting these things.  But, your insurance might then pay for the repair and hopefully the earlobe is put back to something more normal and less hazardous.


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## bunkie (Dec 16, 2009)

As vent and tincan stated, I'd be concerned about the safety issue. I have two holes in each ear and personally wouldn't ever wear earrings on the job. I did put off a sleeve I had scheduled because of this very worry. So I say, when in doubt, dont.


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## Sasha (Dec 16, 2009)

I would NOT do this. This is not the social norm and not something you could take out and pretend you don't have or hide under clothing. This may make it very hard for you to get a job, there is also the safety issue AND the fact that when the fad passes and you're tired of a gigantic hole in your ear, you will have to get them surgically corrected.


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## VentMedic (Dec 16, 2009)

Aidey said:


> There is an RN at one of the hospitals where I am that has his ears stretched.


 
It would be interesting to know how many hospitals he applied at before getting that job or what opportunities he'll have to pass up in the future because of his ears.    ORs and ICUs, especially surgical or specialty, are very strict about jewelry and professional appearances as are transport teams who are representatives of their hospital.


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## imurphy (Dec 16, 2009)

I think the general rule of thumb when it comes to personal expression where it relates to a profession is if you have to question it, it probably isn't going to fly. 

I know my service does not allow visable tattoos, and mandates wearing long sleeves if they are visable both summer and winter. 

If you are going to an interview, I'm sure that your streached ears would be looked down upon. It is all down to perception. For instance when you look at the news etc, you regularly see people who have committed crimes to have such addornments on the tv. Think if your patients, who may be elderly and relate these modifications to criminality see you coming in they will automatically be afraid of you. 

Before anyone says anything, I am not saying everyone that has hese modifications are engaged in criminal activity; I have a number of very good friends who have them and they are the nicest people, however society is judgemental.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Dec 16, 2009)

Sasha said:


> I would NOT do this. This is not the social norm and not something you could take out and pretend you don't have or hide under clothing. This may make it very hard for you to get a job, there is also the safety issue AND the fact that when the fad passes and you're tired of a gigantic hole in your ear, you will have to get them surgically corrected.



dudes with one inch holes through their earlobes isn't attractive?


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## daedalus (Dec 16, 2009)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> dudes with one inch holes through their earlobes isn't attractive?



Actually... they are. (; 

As far as getting a job as an EMT or Paramedic, or as another health care professional in the hospital, you are shooting yourself in the foot. I have seen one EMT in Los Angeles with a gauged ear but he worked for a transfer company, probably the only one that would hire him. And unlike LA, the OP doubtfully has over 90 ambulance companies to apply to like in the greater LA area.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Dec 16, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Actually... they are. (;
> 
> As far as getting a job as an EMT or Paramedic, or as another health care professional in the hospital, you are shooting yourself in the foot. I have seen one EMT in Los Angeles with a gauged ear but he worked for a transfer company, probably the only one that would hire him. And unlike LA, the OP doubtfully has over 90 ambulance companies to apply to like in the greater LA area.



seems to me gauging your ears would not only limit your options of employment, but significantly drain the dating pool as well.


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## Sasha (Dec 16, 2009)

daedalus said:


> Actually... they are. (;



I've got to disagree. To me they are trying to hard to stand out and "express themselves" which is overcompensating for a really boring personality.


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## Pittsburgh77 (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I'm going to hold off getting my ears stretched untill I finish medic class in October.


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## bunkie (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm just genuinely curious. Whats your desire behind it? I can see piercings.. I used to have a great deal many more then I do currently when I was younger. And I can really understand tattoos. But I dont understand the ear stretching where its not a culture thing. Would you be so kind as to share? I'd love your insight on it.


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## Seaglass (Dec 16, 2009)

imurphy said:


> I think the general rule of thumb when it comes to personal expression where it relates to a profession is if you have to question it, it probably isn't going to fly.
> 
> I know my service does not allow visable tattoos, and mandates wearing long sleeves if they are visable both summer and winter.
> 
> ...



This. All of my elderly relatives think all men with piercings or tattoos either have AIDs (yeah, they're seriously homophobic), are criminals, or both. I could easily see them refusing care from a crew that had someone with those visible, or just not allowing them into their house. Hopefully not in a life-threatening emergency, but I wouldn't be too shocked.


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## EMSLaw (Dec 17, 2009)

And to think, I was worried about my beard. 

I'm in a rather conservative profession, and that may color my opinion here, but I'd say this is a no go.  I think employers, patients, and other health care workers and professionals would look askance.  

I think you've made the right call in waiting, and if you decide to make a career out of being a medic this might be one of those things you have to sacrifice.


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## Jon (Dec 17, 2009)

Pittsburgh77 said:


> Thanks to everyone who replied.
> 
> I'm going to hold off getting my ears stretched untill I finish medic class in October.


Smart man. I was going to suggest you check with your school before doing anything rash... if you are going to school in Pittsburgh, I know the Center can be very strict.

I'd go one step further and look at the cost to get them repaired if you need to undo it to get/keep a job. Will you have that money set aside?

Yeah - it may look "cool"... but it will likely hurt your job prospects - for example, if you walk into an interview with Vent or Rid as the hiring boss... We all know we'll never work for them, even though we'd love to ... but I'm sure they are probably in line with experience, etc, of many EMS managers. Given what Vent said, she would likely pass over you for another candidate... either consciously vetoing you because of the "gauges"... or subconsciously, because she is from a different generation and doesn't see how it could be "cool".


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## atropine (Dec 17, 2009)

Dude I say go for it, for crying outloud this isn't all that hard of a job, any private for profit companies need bodies, at least the ones in southern Cali. I mean Compton FD has a Batallion Chief who is all tatted from the neck down, so who catres, I think you will be fine.^_^


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## Summit (Dec 17, 2009)

Personally, I don't care. Professionally, they don't look professional and you won't get hired by most agencies.


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## subliminal1284 (Dec 17, 2009)

As everyone has said only do it if you never want to work in EMS or Fire. Dont be a sheep that follows stupid trends that are going to be out of style in a year or 2.


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## Tyler Bruns (Dec 18, 2009)

mcdonl said:


> I live in Maine, I do not even know what this means. What are plugged ears? I know my kids seem to have them from time to time as they never listen....



Plugs, gauges, stretched, all the same thing.


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## VentMedic (Dec 18, 2009)

Tyler Bruns said:


> Plugs, gauges, stretched, all the same thing.


 
Actually there might be some differences.

















*I think the above ear is called "Pinned and Plugged".*






*Be sure to find a qualified plastic surgeon after you tire of this trend.*


*Elf ear?*


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## CAOX3 (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks for the pics, I think I threw up a little in my mouth.


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## Lifeguards For Life (Dec 18, 2009)

CAOX3 said:


> Thanks for the pics, I think I threw up a little in my mouth.



i never hav understood why anyone would want to do that to their bodies


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## Sasha (Dec 18, 2009)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> i never hav understood why anyone would want to do that to their bodies



To "express themselves" and show everyone how clever, unique and creative they are.


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## VentMedic (Dec 18, 2009)

Long hair was also a form of expression in the 1960s and 1970s. One thought behind it was to be natural and allow the hair grow as it was meant to. Others did it for their artistic expression such as the rock stars of that time and their followers mimicked them. Cutting one's hair was actually considered "self mutilating". 

However, we have now all seen photos of rock stars and of even the parents of some here to know what they looked like then and now. Maturity and other roles in life or responsibilities caused their appearances to change as did their attitudes. For some all it took was their parents withholding their allowances or college money. Others had to seek gainful employment after they finished following rock bands around. And yes, long hair was frowned upon by many employers. Some were allowed to keep it in a pony tail or tucked under a cap. For some, it did become a safety issue and even the women in Public Safety professions are told to wear their hair up. When women first started looking at becoming Firefighters they were told by some departments to get their hair cut short. Some did to improve their chances. Now, while long hair is allowed for women, it must be kept up and neat for all fire scenes to not cause a safety issue. Professional image was also a factor. Long stringy hair was not considered to be professional and still isn't for many places of employment. But again, this is something that can easily be remedied and does not require any mutilation or surgical procedures.

Some here will probably try to argue that plastic surgery such as face lifts, breast enhancements and nose restructuring is mutilation. But, the breast still resembles a breast and the nose still looks like a nose.

One might also wonder what other issues a person who must express themselves to feel "different" or like they belong to a unique group has. Are they gullible? Just want to belong? Will they make a good leader in a stressful situation? Can they make rational decisions? Will they get into verbal or even physical altercations when a patient, bystanders or co-workers challenge their appearance? We do know this has happened in the past with the long hair issues. But, it was something that a trip to the barber shop and a $20 hair cut could fix once they got tired of the remarks and matured.

I can not even imagine what these ears will look like after the age of 35.  Those of us in the health care professions may already have seen the 40 y/o roses and other tattoos that are a little outdated and stretched or wrinkled as the body changes.  We've also saw where some things have interfered with the person's health  such as the silicone breast implants and the issues with autoimmune diseases.  Even doing a CXR or EKG can be challenging since the silicone hampers conduction and blocks radiographic views.   We have heard cases of diseases being passed in tattoo and piecing shops.  If it can happen in a hospital with sophisticated sterilization equipment, it can definitely happen in some little private place of business.  While some may say all the right words (as they must for health inspectors) or have their sterilization policy available, saying and doing are two different things.  

For body piercings the list of complications is long. Just the formation of keloid can present a problem even if it is not life threatening.  Auricular perichondritis requires extensive antibiotic treatment.  Pseudomonas Aeruginosa and Staphylococcus Aureus (which can become MRSA) are two very common pathogens found in some of the infections. 

As someone who wants to become a medical professional, you need to start thinking like one when it comes to your own body.  It may be the same assessment you will need to do on a young person who comes to you with symptoms of an illness or an infection or even a facial paralysis.  Are you not going to include the piercings and "mutilations" in your assessment because they are "artistic expression"?


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## eveningsky339 (Dec 18, 2009)

Pittsburgh77 said:


> Thanks to everyone who replied.
> 
> I'm going to hold off getting my ears stretched untill I finish medic class in October.



Smart move.  Stop and consider the image you are presenting here-- someone is in perhaps the darkest hour of their life and calls for help, and then an EMT with plugged ears strolls in...  It's just not going to work.  Especially if you want to go to work as a medic.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen ER MD's pierced and tatted like you wouldn't believe, and they were still respected and great at what they did.  However, I've also seen EMT's presenting a similar appearance, but instead of 12 years of hard work, they took a 150 hour course at the local fire station, and I can tell you that I would happily call a second ambulance if any one of those guys showed up to take care of my mother.


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## EMSLaw (Dec 18, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Long hair was also a form of expression in the 1960s and 1970s. One thought behind it was to be natural and allow the hair grow as it was meant to. Others did it for their artistic expression such as the rock stars of that time and their followers mimicked them. Cutting one's hair was actually considered "self mutilating".



And the sign said 'Long Haired Freaky People.... Need Not Apply.'

Interesting post, but as you pointed out, even the most extreme hairstyle can be fixed by a trip to the barber (more easily for men, who can always shave their heads totally if they have to.  A woman who sports a mohawk might have trouble explaining why she's now doing the Sinead O'Connor, which is just as extreme.)


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## VentMedic (Dec 18, 2009)

EMSLaw said:


> And the sign said 'Long Haired Freaky People.... Need Not Apply.'
> 
> Interesting post, but as you pointed out, even the most extreme hairstyle can be fixed by a trip to the barber (more easily for men, who can always shave their heads totally if they have to. A woman who sports a mohawk might have trouble explaining why she's now doing the Sinead O'Connor, which is just as extreme.)


 
We did have a couple of women take it to the extreme when the FD enforced its rules. Now, the bald look would be more acceptable for women than it was in 1980. For those who wanted to sport a mohawk or some other non-natural color of hair off duty, a wig was an option to wear at work. Although in Florida, I can not imagine weaing a wig for a 24 hour shift or being the partner of someone who did. The long sleeves to cover up the tattoos were bad enough to make some think twice before getting one.


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## Hal9000 (Dec 19, 2009)

subliminal1284 said:


> As everyone has said only do it if you never want to work in EMS or Fire. Dont be a sheep that follows stupid trends that are going to be out of style in a year or 2.




Indeed correct.

Do it and you'll make someone's life easier when applying for the good jobs.


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## BLSBoy (Dec 20, 2009)

> Behind the counter, another eighteen-year-old kid. Both ears-pierced. Both nostrils-pierced. Both eyebrows :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing pierced! And his tongue is hanging out, you know why his tongue is hanging... cuz he has a six-inch steel stud imbedded in the middle of it! That's just one more thing for your dad to grab a hold of when he's pissed off at you.
> Pull up your pants!



Please. Do it. Allow those who really wanna be here to get that job that much easier.


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## gremlin75 (Dec 21, 2009)

imurphy said:


> Think if your patients, who may be elderly and relate these modifications to criminality see you coming in they will automatically be afraid of you.



That is my thought on it. I personally have stretched ears (though not as extreme as the ones pictured. Mine are only 6g...maybe 4g I cant remember right now) and I know that working in EMS they are something I will have to get rid of. The fact is I'm choosing a career in a field where I have to have the patients respect without them knowing anything about me. That means my appearance will play a huge role in that. Most people see my large earrings and will instantly thinking of me as some punk criminal. Not exactly  the appearance I want to give when I'm going at them with n IV needle 



bunkie said:


> I'm just genuinely curious. Whats your desire behind it?



For me I just liked the way slightly stretched ear's looked, or rather the way the larger rings looked. Though I did make sure to not go to large. There is a point of no return when the only way the lobe will go back to normal is with cosmetic surgery. Mine will actually close up on there own (I let them do so one before and re-streched them) Best picture I can find of how large I went with my lobes. 







later
gremlin


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## Seaglass (Dec 21, 2009)

VentMedic said:


> Now, the bald look would be more acceptable for women than it was in 1980.



I don't think a company would have much of a leg to stand on if it didn't allow bald women today. Bald men are generally accepted, and to force a bald woman to wear a wig seems pretty extreme, especially if she's lost her hair due to alopecia, chemotherapy, or anything else beyond her control.


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## EMT-Johnny (Feb 17, 2010)

Here's a quick question, if someone in your family is having an emergency problem i.e heart attack and whatnot, and a paramedic guy comes in with an earings or plugs whatever. Would you dare to call another paramedic for the scene?

I seriously think it actually depends on your employer whether or not he/she would want to hire you if you have an earings, stretched ears, visible tattoos. But I do believe that one should consider professionalism to have a long lasting career.


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## VentMedic (Feb 17, 2010)

EMT-Johnny said:


> Here's a quick question, if someone in your family is having an emergency problem i.e heart attack and whatnot, and a paramedic guy comes in with an earings or plugs whatever. Would you dare to call another paramedic for the scene?
> 
> I seriously think it actually depends on your employer whether or not he/she would want to hire you if you have an earings, stretched ears, visible tattoos. But I do believe that one should consider professionalism to have a long lasting career.


 

Only a very small percentage of your calls will be life threatening emergencies.  The other calls will bring you into contact with facilities that have contracted your ambulance service to be an extension of them to transport their patients.  That facility may decide you are not the image they want for the transport and care of their patient. Thus, no more contract which could mean a layoff for your company.  When you bring patients to the hospitals' ED where you will be a representative of your ambulance company.  Anytime you are in public view driving the ambulance and wearing their uniform, you are representing that company.


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## nomofica (Feb 17, 2010)

My city's EMS department allows stretched ears, and even visible tattoos and dreadlocks. However, ears are not to be stretched past a certain gauge and tattoos must not be offensive.

I don't know much about their policy as I don't work for the city-operated EMS but I know I've seen them.


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## this is destruction (Mar 1, 2010)

Ok, I figured I'd comment on this after lurking through thread and seeing a lot of the responses.  

Just a little background on me since I'm a new poster, I work for a very large MICU project in the "southern" region of NJ and have been a paramedic for 6 years.  I have my ears stretched and I also have a lot of tattoos, which get covered up with some form of long sleeves year round. 

While I understand the general opinion on these and pretty much agree with the general consensus that these may be looked down by potential employers, patients, families, hospital staff, and the ilk, I felt as if I should give my take on this.

I've had my ears pierced and stretched since I first started a career in EMS 8 years ago.  I had removed them during my field internship time as a paramedic student and subsequently many years later decided to "re-stretch."  I've never had them stretched to a ridiculous size where I could fit my fist through, but they aren't exactly small.  I'd like to think at least they're mildly inconspicuous, although I'm sure that's not the case.

The first time I had taken them out, they closed rather quickly to a point where only regular jewelry could be worn if that's how I wanted to deal with it.  When I first made the decision to restretch my ears, I made mention of it to my supervisors as well as looking at our HR manual to make sure there wasn't going to be an issue.  If it was anything that was going to negatively impact my employment, I wouldn't have done it.  Clear and simple.  If I ever do decide that I'm not into them anymore, they can come out and will close up to a relatively normal size, which is pretty convenient.  

If I was to interview for another company, I would take them out, no problem and if offered a job and they didn't want them back in, they would stay out.  

With all of that being said,  I have yet to encounter a professional problem with them in.  I haven't had any negative reactions from patients, families, hospital staff, etc, but I have occasionally gotten the inquisitive question and sometimes they've been an effective icebreaker.  If I ever felt like they were negatively impacting my career, they would also come out.  I've worked too hard and too long for one issue of vanity to hold me back.

The beauty of these, as opposed to tattoos, is that they are in no way permanent.  As far as what VentMedic posted about the health risks, I agree, there are risks, but I feel a lot of the problems he spoke of are easily preventable if you're smart and know how to take care of wounds.

So basically my standing is they could stay in or come out and it wouldn't really bother me either way, but for now, they're staying in.  

Sorry for the long winded reply.


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## nemedic (Mar 1, 2010)

BLSBoy said:


> Behind the counter, another eighteen-year-old kid. Both ears-pierced. Both nostrils-pierced. Both eyebrows ing pierced! And his tongue is hanging out, you know why his tongue is hanging... cuz he has a six-inch steel stud imbedded in the middle of it! That's just one more thing for your dad to grab a hold of when he's pissed off at you.
> Pull up your pants!
> 
> Please. Do it. Allow those who really wanna be here to get that job that much easier.



I was wondering when that quote from Denis Leary was going to make its appearance.


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## LucidResq (Mar 1, 2010)

We recently hired someone at our clinic who has pink hair, weird facial piercings, and two piercings on either side of her chest, near her clavicles, that are visible and exposed in scrubs. I don't get it. At all. 

I have to say, it's pretty distracting while talking to her. Maybe it's just my ADHD... but when she talks this weird piercing emerges from under her upper lip... and it's hard to focus on what she's saying. 

As I'm training her, I have to say I'm also embarrassed to introduce her to patients. "Seriously?" is written across many of their faces. Doesn't help that she isn't performing to the standards I'd expect by now and has absolutely no sense of initiative. Ugh. 

I keep bringing it up with the practice, but the medical director doesn't seem to mind and her opinion is the one that counts.


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## VentMedic (Mar 1, 2010)

LucidResq said:


> I keep bringing it up with the practice, but the medical director doesn't seem to mind and her opinion is the one that counts.


 
You mentioned scrubs in your post so is this in a hospital?

The medical director may not be the one setting the dress and grooming policy.  If anything is in direct violation of the written policy in effect for the facility, the medical director can take a lax attitude...until a complaint is filed or a visit from those who oversee the hospital's interests which includes shareholders and other stakeholders including the public.


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## LucidResq (Mar 1, 2010)

We have an interesting relationship with the hospital. We are a clinic, but we are definitely more independent than most. 

We'll see what happens. It probably will be a matter of someone complaining, or one of the many residents (we are a teaching facility) that cycle through here talking.


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