# When did you become an adult?



## abckidsmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I find that EMS is loaded with post-adolescents of many varieties.  I would have thought that the nature of the job would force the majority of people into adulthood, but that's not always the case.

Discussing an old partner of mine today with my husband, I realized that the prime reason I hated that guy was because we were both egocentric barely-more-than-adolescents with no problem solving skills (or no desire to use them).  We got in more trouble for stupid crap in the year we worked together than any trouble I've gotten in since.  Basically, it was continual butting heads and failing to see things from the other person's perspective.  And refusal to back down from being "right."

Now, through a trick that God is playing on me, I'm faced with the possibility of going to work at the place where he's been all this time while I've been having kids.  So he's likely to be a supervisor, or at least up there in the seniority.  Great.

But I think I probably have the skills to deal with him now, even if he is still the same way, because I think sometime around the second daughter I became a full-out adult.

How about the rest of you?  Can you identify a turning point where you believe that you started behaving like an adult?  Have you yet, LOL?


----------



## medic417 (Oct 13, 2010)

I became an adult about 13/14 due to some extreme things I dealt with but will not discuss.  Now I am old and as my mind goes I seem to be entering a second childhood.


----------



## Shishkabob (Oct 13, 2010)

Me? An adult? Ha! Good one. 

*goes back to playing with the drugs people somehow trust him with*


----------



## DrParasite (Oct 13, 2010)

still a kid, and proud of it.

now if only my coworkers will stop busting my chops about watching cartoons at work....


----------



## katgrl2003 (Oct 13, 2010)

Definitely still a kid. Why would I want to grow up? Being a kid is way too much fun.


----------



## Lifeguards For Life (Oct 13, 2010)

Linuss said:


> Me? An adult? Ha! Good one.
> 
> *goes back to playing with the drugs people somehow trust him with*



You know, I am a paramedic, I have  narcotics in my possession while on the ambulance. I am able to administer drugs to patients, make medical decisions, and see blood guts and gore.

But when I went on a date to the movie theater with a girl, I am not old enough to buy more than one ticket to a rated R movie. I was a bit embarrassed when my date showed up, telling her I tried to buy her ticked but am too young to buy multiple tickets to a rated r movie....:wacko::blink::blush::unsure::glare:


----------



## rwik123 (Oct 13, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> You know, I am a paramedic, I have  narcotics in my possession while on the ambulance. I am able to administer drugs to patients, make medical decisions, and see blood guts and gore.
> 
> But when I went on a date to the movie theater with a girl, I am not old enough to buy more than one ticket to a rated R movie. I was a bit embarrassed when my date showed up, telling her I tried to buy her ticked but am too young to buy multiple tickets to a rated r movie....:wacko::blink::blush::unsure::glare:



I was always under the impression that medics had to be 21+.. or at least in my state, cause of the whole narcotics deal


----------



## Lifeguards For Life (Oct 13, 2010)

rwik123 said:


> I was always under the impression that medics had to be 21+.. or at least in my state, cause of the whole narcotics deal



nah 18 here. But you also have to be 18 to become an EMT so the youngest you will really see a paramedic here is 19. Still don't know how old you have to be to buy your date a ticked to a r movie.....:glare:


----------



## CAO (Oct 13, 2010)

Shoot...I'm still waiting on becoming a kid.

I've always been the serious one.  I joke around all the time, but I'm always the first one to roll up my sleeves when it's time to work.  I even won the "Most Serious" award in Kindergarten.  If that's not going to set the tone for my education, I don't know what else will.

My mom jokes around saying I was born a 40 y/o man.  Now I'm in my mid-twenties and she calls me a curmudgeon <_<


----------



## EMS/LEO505 (Oct 13, 2010)

16, year I lost my 2nd parent....that's when I had to become an adult.


----------



## lightsandsirens5 (Oct 14, 2010)

Lifeguards For Life said:


> You know, I am a paramedic, I have  narcotics in my possession while on the ambulance. I am able to administer drugs to patients, make medical decisions, and see blood guts and gore.
> 
> But when I went on a date to the movie theater with a girl, I am not old enough to buy more than one ticket to a rated R movie. I was a bit embarrassed when my date showed up, telling her I tried to buy her ticked but am too young to buy multiple tickets to a rated r movie....:wacko::blink::blush::unsure::glare:



Ha ha ha! Great! 

I know what you mean. My first time into a bar I was 18 years old. Went to help clean up after a fight. It hit me that I was not even old enough to drink legally, yet I was old enough to work and ambulance, give drugs, and haul your drunk, sorry you know what to the ER.

As to when I became and adult.....Linuss about sums that up for me.


----------



## TransportJockey (Oct 14, 2010)

16 for me, had some pretty intense stuff happen to me during my soph year of HS. But I still try to act like a kid as much as I can.


----------



## fast65 (Oct 14, 2010)

Eh, I'm still a kid, but I would like to be able to think that I'm a responsible kid


----------



## clibb (Oct 14, 2010)

Had to "act" like an adult? 14/15. I moved to another state for hockey. Minded? I'm always going to be a child.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 14, 2010)

When I was 22, I decided to move out on my own accord, while on good terms with my mother. I just felt like a worthless loser living under mommy's protection, so I decided to grow the F up and make my own way in the world. I have a general disdain for those individuals that can't cut the cord, and mooch off of mommy and daddy until they're in their mid to late 20's, or even their 30's. I had basically nothing when I moved out, only a hand me down tattered couch, a twin mattres, an end table, pot a pan, a couple of bowls, plates, plastic silverware, some clothes, and a bath towel. If you're an out of work graduate, tough. You should have made a more realistic choice of a major, instead of taking out loans for something you thought would be cool to do. When I moved out, I worked as a helper on a Snapple truck for 300/wk cash, and I was also a bartender and a bouncer. Paying a few hundred a month towards your parent's place dosen't count. Let them have their home back. Their job is done.

I moved into a studio that was converted from a garage for 500 a month. A few years later, I upgraded to a rented room upstairs, the master BR, for 700/month. I was broke and in debt several times. I had to borrow numerous times to fix my car, and also to pay for EMT school. I didn't punt and move back in with mommy, though. It was then that I realized that I needed benefits and applied to my old hospital, North Shore LIJ. My mother passed while I was in the process, so I was left with no safety net, as dad passed back in '86. Had I not moved out when I did, I probably wouldn't have had the tools to do so, having been soft and protected from the world. 

Before I had my daughter, I was still relatively immature. I wrote on another thread about throwing batteries at other driver's rear windshields in a fit of road rage. I would exit my car and call out the other driver. I've hammer fisted a few driver's side mirrors off in my time. A tire iron makes a great tool for fending off multiple attackers. I took the advice that someone could be carrying a gun or a knife as a challenge. Like I said, I've since matured. That mentality of not letting anyone get over on you or push you around served me well in my youth, but it was time to exercise a little more tact and discretion.

As far as my kids, I'll pay their way so long as they remain in school, and it had better be for something legitimate and useful, not some BS liberal arts degree or something equally useless. When they're finished, I might allow a year to gain some financial ground. After that, it's two options: Move out, or stay and pay fair market rate for rent, utilities, etc, and also be required to obey all the same rules of the house. You don't mature as a person by being coddled. It sounds rough, but they'll be better off for it.

Edit: Still to this day, my mind is more like that of a 21 year old. I'm talking about a 21 year old in our grandparent's day, not the  "30 is the new 20," or "40 is the new thirty" references to male immaturity nowadays. We cut up at work all day, I'm full of energy, and like to play. I like watching GI Joe PSA's on youtube, as well as those Lego FF vs NH videos. I could still do a night out at a bar or a club and enjoy it. I can also play at the park with my 6 year old like I'm another 6 year old. Age is just a state of mind. You can be young without necessarily being immature.


----------



## medic417 (Oct 14, 2010)

46Young said:


> When I was 22, I decided to move out on my own accord, while on good terms with my mother..



Why did you wait until you were a middle aged man like that?  Disgraceful.

I actually moved out at 16.


----------



## slb862 (Oct 16, 2010)

Do I have to grow up?


----------



## MrBrown (Oct 16, 2010)

Brown has seen a total of probably over ten psychologists/shrinks/head rearragners, moved out of home when he was 17 and ended up living with a bunch of meth freaks, has one parent who has not dealt with thier psychological problems from thirty years ago, has another parent who is a lying, cheating, manipulative incestious meth cook, has become so engraged with various limitations that he has had some sort of massive cellular annoix event more than once, has spent a night at the cop shop for suicide prevention and sometimes gets to go to peoples houses and deal with thier problems which may coincidently be medically related.

And Brown wonders why some days he feels like he is fifty?


----------



## firetender (Oct 16, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> And Brown wonders why some days he feels like he is fifty?


 
My parents had me when in their forties so my world was filled with adults in their fifties, mostly bitter about their lives. So I kind of grew up as a 40 year old!

Didn't have much of a childhood worth keeping...Not true; it was a very painful springboard that got me into and through many worlds that most don't get to experience (EMS having been one). I wouldn't be here had not my child kept me alive! Incredibly resilient little Sprite!

Now, my only sense of not being an adult is when I look in the mirror...I say "Who the hell is THAT?" What I expect to see is an adult in his twenties.

What I see is, well...different!


----------



## abckidsmom (Oct 16, 2010)

46Young said:


> Edit: *Still to this day, my mind is more like that of a 21 year old. I'm talking about a 21 year old in our grandparent's day, not the  "30 is the new 20," or "40 is the new thirty" references to male immaturity nowadays*. We cut up at work all day, I'm full of energy, and like to play. I like watching GI Joe PSA's on youtube, as well as those Lego FF vs NH videos. I could still do a night out at a bar or a club and enjoy it. I can also play at the park with my 6 year old like I'm another 6 year old. Age is just a state of mind. You can be young without necessarily being immature.



I think that to a certain extent, the comforts, technologies and indulgences in our current culture encourage the immaturity you're talking about.

No, it's not necessary to be super serious and never have a good time, but I do think that it impinges on life to not approach it from a non-immature standpoint.  (That's my lame attempt to not say "Grow up!")


----------



## piranah (Oct 16, 2010)

I must say not moving out was the best decision I've ever made. I went straight into EMT school then medic school because I didn't have the money to pay for college. I now pay for all of my school without loans and still live at home due to the fact that school is slightly expensive and i need to save because med school is even more so. Rent around here is 1000+ for even a hole in the wall....so am I a child for being a 21 yr old who doesn't have the money to pay for school and an apartment..? No..I busted my *** and sacrificed my social life to get to the point where i can pay for school..and even so i have to join the navy for med school..i feel being a medic forced me to grow up..at least around here..


----------



## 46Young (Oct 16, 2010)

piranah said:


> ....so am I a child for being a 21 yr old who doesn't have the money to pay for school and an apartment..?



No, that doesn't make you a child. You stayed at home to be able to afford EMT and medic school, and also have the time to do so, since you didn't need work full time to support yourself. I did both while supporting myself, and paramedic school was done on my salary alone with a wife and a kid, but that's besides the point.

Now, if you were to continue to stay at home after completing your schooling, I would hold you in poor regard. You mentioned joining the Navy. Are you doing that shortly, or is that something you may or may not do down the line? If it's at some yet to be determined point in the future, then move out, be an adult, and make your own way. Sure, you'll save money by staying home, but that's the equivalent of your parents paying your rent. How is that being an adult?

It's not necessary to reply to say what your plans are. Plans can always change. What you end up doing matters not to me. I'm just answering your question.


----------



## abckidsmom (Oct 16, 2010)

piranah said:


> I must say not moving out was the best decision I've ever made. I went straight into EMT school then medic school because I didn't have the money to pay for college. I now pay for all of my school without loans and still live at home due to the fact that school is slightly expensive and i need to save because med school is even more so. Rent around here is 1000+ for even a hole in the wall....so am I a child for being a 21 yr old who doesn't have the money to pay for school and an apartment..? No..I busted my *** and sacrificed my social life to get to the point where i can pay for school..and even so i have to join the navy for med school..i feel being a medic forced me to grow up..at least around here..



I'm all for multigenerational living.  We currently have a nephew living with us, and contributing in a big way to our family.  If it works for you and it's not an imposition to your family, I think it's a great way to be.

It's just people who finish school, then enjoy mom's cooking and xbox for the next 15 years that look like slackers to me.  Our nephew is unemployed and has some barriers to employment, but works 40 hours a week volunteering in the community or contributing to our family.  He may look like a slacker in a lot of respects, but while he's looking for a job, he's contributing to society and not sitting around watching TV (although he finds plenty of time for that in the evenings).


----------



## firetender (Oct 16, 2010)

46Young said:


> Now, if you were to continue to stay at home after completing your schooling, I would hold you in poor regard.


 
Just a note, 46; it's a different world out there today where choices are not as broad in terms of living arrangements as they once were. Economics have changed and the kids are doing the best they can with what they got. A lot of parents, at losses to their life pursuits, are helping to make entry into the larger society a bit easier.

...and as far as holding anyone in poor regard for simple, non-destructive choices?


----------



## TransportJockey (Oct 16, 2010)

As for living with parents... I've been living with my parents since August while I've been unemployed. I do chores, I help around the house, do whatever I'm asked since I'm not working. I love that they offered to help when I had nothing to fall back on.


----------



## abckidsmom (Oct 16, 2010)

firetender said:


> Just a note, 46; it's a different world out there today where choices are not as broad in terms of living arrangements as they once were. Economics have changed and the kids are doing the best they can with what they got. A lot of parents, at losses to their life pursuits, are helping to make entry into the larger society a bit easier.
> 
> ...and as far as holding anyone in poor regard for simple, non-destructive choices?



I think you do get to respect or not respect the choice of a person to not "make something" of themselves as your value system leads you.  Whether you are actively hostile to those people is another thing entirely.  Rudeness is not generally acceptable.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 16, 2010)

abckidsmom said:


> I'm all for multigenerational living.  We currently have a nephew living with us, and contributing in a big way to our family.  If it works for you and it's not an imposition to your family, I think it's a great way to be.
> 
> It's just people who finish school, then enjoy mom's cooking and xbox for the next 15 years that look like slackers to me.  Our nephew is unemployed and has some barriers to employment, but works 40 hours a week volunteering in the community or contributing to our family.  He may look like a slacker in a lot of respects, but while he's looking for a job, he's contributing to society and not sitting around watching TV (although he finds plenty of time for that in the evenings).



If you have family living with you and they're pulling their weight, then there's nothing wrong with that. It's when they start getting comfortable, slacking, and acting like they own the place that they become a problem.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 16, 2010)

firetender said:


> Just a note, 46; it's a different world out there today where choices are not as broad in terms of living arrangements as they once were. Economics have changed and the kids are doing the best they can with what they got. A lot of parents, at losses to their life pursuits, are helping to make entry into the larger society a bit easier.
> 
> ...and as far as holding anyone in poor regard for simple, non-destructive choices?



Perhaps I should clarify; if the young adult legitimately find work, got laid off, got plowed by a drunk driver, got divorced and cleaned out, or similarly legitimate issues, then they deserve help. The issue I have is when you have the means but you insist on staying home and living high on the hog.

I've seen plenty of individuals in my own family as well as friends and acquaintences that were always taken care of as children, and were not pushed to become independent as adults. They don't typically turn out so well. These are the ones who have it out with the parents, move out, and then come back in a couple of months or so after seeing how expensive it is out on your own. No survival skills. You have to toughen your kids up. The old timers would be married maybe with kids by the time they were in their early 20's. I'm not saying to do that, but you need to go out and hack it on your own. If you remain home you become soft. How are you going to (maybe) get married one day and support a family if you've always had the protection of living with their parents? When you go into debt with a family to feed, are you going to drink a lot? Get depressed and sleep all day? Walk out? Or are you going to step up?

The whole point of raising your kids is to prepare them to handle the world on their own. It's not the same when you don't have to worry about the roof over your head, electricity, heat, etc.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 16, 2010)

jtpaintball70 said:


> As for living with parents... I've been living with my parents since August while I've been unemployed. I do chores, I help around the house, do whatever I'm asked since I'm not working. I love that they offered to help when I had nothing to fall back on.



You're unemployed. Not your fault. I don't expect you to turn tricks on the street corner. I'd move back in too, if I was broke with no means of supporting yourself. Use this time at home to your advantage.


----------



## firetender (Oct 16, 2010)

46Young said:


> Perhaps I should clarify...;


 
I'm with you. If someone is draining you they should be flushed. 

I guess I reacted to what I interpreted as an "across the board" statement. Lots of kids pull their own weight, even if it's just for comic relief!

Hopefully, if you're in the middle of something like you describe, they'll be out soon.


----------



## firetender (Oct 16, 2010)

46Young said:


> I don't expect you to turn tricks on the street corner. QUOTE]
> 
> I tried that; remember the Maytag Repairman?


----------



## 46Young (Oct 16, 2010)

abckidsmom said:


> I think you do get to respect or not respect the choice of a person to not "make something" of themselves as your value system leads you.  Whether you are actively hostile to those people is another thing entirely.  Rudeness is not generally acceptable.



I didn't say that I'm hostile to someone who has no ambition. I treat everyone respectfully unless their actions warrant otherwise. I just don't think much about them. It's that "The world owes me a living" mentality that irritates me. It's like when I was dating and I would find out that the girl only graduated high school, and maybe works for a temp agency or some low skill job, while not working towards anything better. Like they're just existing until someone comes along to take care of them. Or the 26 y/o living at home with the expensive beemer, all the nice clothes, goes clubbing three nights a week. 

The other day a kid at work, who still lives at home, broke my balls about my beater car and was going on and on about his truck. I showed him the home I'm buying and told him how it costs 5-6 times more than that truck. I asked him how, when he meets girls, does he explain why he still lives with mommy and daddy? I told him how I was doing fine with a banged up '91 T-bird and a studio with nothing in it, while also four years his junior at the time (22). The ladies respected that a whole lot more than some boy with flashy toys that can afford them only because he depends on his parents.


----------



## TransportJockey (Oct 16, 2010)

46Young said:


> You're unemployed. Not your fault. I don't expect you to turn tricks on the street corner. I'd move back in too, if I was broke with no means of supporting yourself. Use this time at home to your advantage.



I did  Saved a little money from odd jobs, and I start my new job in TX sometime next week


----------



## 46Young (Oct 16, 2010)

firetender said:


> I'm with you. If someone is draining you they should be flushed.
> 
> I guess I reacted to what I interpreted as an "across the board" statement. Lots of kids pull their own weight, even if it's just for comic relief!
> 
> Hopefully, if you're in the middle of something like you describe, they'll be out soon.



No, one's 6 and the other one's an infant. It's gonna be a few years.


----------



## LucidResq (Oct 17, 2010)

46Young said:


> You're unemployed. Not your fault. I don't expect you to turn tricks on the street corner. I'd move back in too, if I was broke with no means of supporting yourself. Use this time at home to your advantage.



I expect him to be turning tricks. 

WHERE'S MY MONEY?!?!


Hmmm... in many ways I feel very mature - but that's really only compared to most other 20 year olds I encounter. I was raised by a single epileptic drug-addicted father who was unemployed 70% of my teenage-hood. I grew up kinda fast in that respect. I took care of him while he seized, learned to live without electricity or phone service, and made awesome meals with powdered potatoes from the food bank. Paid my own way through college for over 2 years... until about 6 months ago when affording school AND getting good grades while sleeping on various couches or my car started to become too difficult.

Currently in my first place of my own, and still often feel like I'm playing house. I am extremely grateful for my life experiences - mostly facilitated through my jobs... I've sat with a woman as she died, cared for people my age with quadriplegia 2nd to MVAs, helped couples through miscarriage... etc etc... 

On the other hand I respect the life experience of my elders, ESPECIALLY parents. I think that comes from my experience nannying... the biggest thing I learned caring for children is that nothing comes close to having your own. I got a taste... and it was enough for me to realize what a profound and consuming turn of life that is. I do not come close in maturity to most of my peers, especially those who are parents.


----------



## MrBrown (Oct 17, 2010)

firetender said:


> What I see is, well...different!



Same here, but apparently that is because Brown is a blind bugger 

Brown didn't have much of a childhood either, hence why Brown wants better for his kids.  Whenever they come along.  Have to ask Mrs Brown about that one.


----------



## piranah (Oct 17, 2010)

what I was trying to get at..cost of living in general is more expensive than it used to be..its not as easy to get out and just do it anymore...school has tripled in cost, jobs are scarce. Times have changed, and not for the better..and I do agree with you, I hate the entitlement complex of people my age..I never expected my parents to pay for my $260,000 education...its just numbers...rent at the lowest $1000,school cost $260,000(without books included), car/gas/insurance $500, making good pay as a medic around here and looking at that bill while trying to keep above water...not so easy, if even possible.


----------



## piranah (Oct 17, 2010)

on a side note...Brown.. I love the third person..just sayin


----------



## MrBrown (Oct 17, 2010)

piranah said:


> ..I never expected my parents to pay for my $260,000 education...its just numbers



What in the bloody hell did you study? Man my course in Helicopterdoctorology is only gonna cost like 70k


----------



## Sasha (Oct 17, 2010)

I notice that while I have for the most part become an adult and matured, I have several child like qualities that I retain. I don't think it's any fun to completely "grow up".


----------



## medic417 (Oct 17, 2010)

Sasha said:


> I notice that while I have for the most part become an adult and matured, I have several child like qualities that I retain. I don't think it's any fun to completely "grow up".



Oh grow up you big baby.h34r:


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## piranah (Oct 17, 2010)

160 for undergrad and approx 100 for med school thats not exact...all depends on many factors..


----------



## medic417 (Oct 17, 2010)

piranah said:


> 160 for undergrad and approx 100 for med school thats not exact...all depends on many factors..



Does that include living expenses?  Heck with that amount I could have retired on a small island I know of and never worked again.....  "Wastin away again in margaritaville.........."


----------



## CAOX3 (Oct 17, 2010)

piranah said:


> 160 for undergrad and approx 100 for med school thats not exact...all depends on many factors..



160 thousand dollars for a bachelor's degree? 

This may be your problem.

Only 20 thousand a year for med school?  This number seems off too.


----------



## lampnyter (Oct 17, 2010)

I became an adult at 16, when i got my EMT cert and started riding.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 18, 2010)

Who says human intellect is superior? Every animal that suckles it's young teaches said young to feed themselves and weans them BEFORE the teat drys up. It's called self-sufficiency and is a prerequisite to survival. Unfortunately the "superior intellect" has created a populace of ticks and leeches, parasites that cling to the host and suck the life blood out of it.

Someone posted this on another forum that was discussing gov't entitlement programs. I feel that it's relevant to this discussion as well.


----------



## clibb (Oct 18, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> Same here, but apparently that is because Brown is a blind bugger
> 
> Brown didn't have much of a childhood either, hence why Brown wants better for his kids.  Whenever they come along.  Have to ask Mrs Brown about that one.



And your kids are going to talk like this, too?


----------



## Aerin-Sol (Oct 19, 2010)

46Young said:


> Who says human intellect is superior? Every *other* animal that suckles it's young teaches said young to feed themselves and weans them BEFORE the teat drys up. It's called self-sufficiency and is a prerequisite to survival. Unfortunately the "superior intellect" has created a populace of ticks and leeches, parasites that cling to the host and suck the life blood out of it.
> 
> Someone posted this on another forum that was discussing gov't entitlement programs. I feel that it's relevant to this discussion as well.



Other animals that suckle their young teach those young to go out and hunt/forage for their food, neither of which are viable ways for the majority of humans in the developed world to obtain food, and I am grateful that our superior intellect, which you seem to have issues with, has enabled the development of civilization.

Secondly, that statement is not true for pan troglodytes (chimpanzees), who  start weaning their infant whenever they want to with no regard for milk production, and I would bet that it is not true for other great ape species.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 19, 2010)

Aerin-Sol said:


> Other animals that suckle their young teach those young to go out and hunt/forage for their food, neither of which are viable ways for the majority of humans in the developed world to obtain food, and I am grateful that our superior intellect, which you seem to have issues with, has enabled the development of civilization.
> 
> Secondly, that statement is not true for pan troglodytes (chimpanzees), who  start weaning their infant whenever they want to with no regard for milk production, and I would bet that it is not true for other great ape species.



You're killing me.

I was speaking in metaphor. Too many young adults (mid 20's and beyond, finished with school) continue to depend on their parents for room and board when they have, or ought to have the tools to move out and make their own way. It was discussed at length earlier in the thread. Try to keep up. An animal teaching it's young to feed itself before the teat dries up is also metaphor for those that are dependant on, or make a "career" out of entitlement programs. This could also be extended to the elderly on social security.

And what type of point were you trying to prove with the example of the chimpanzee? I'd call it a strawman argument, but I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.


----------



## abckidsmom (Oct 19, 2010)

Aerin-Sol said:


> Other animals that suckle their young teach those young to go out and hunt/forage for their food, neither of which are viable ways for the majority of humans in the developed world to obtain food, and I am grateful that our superior intellect, which you seem to have issues with, has enabled the development of civilization.
> 
> Secondly, that statement is not true for pan troglodytes (chimpanzees), who  start weaning their infant whenever they want to with no regard for milk production, and I would bet that it is not true for other great ape species.



Poor choice of animal metaphor, I think.  Chimps also throw their feces at others who grate their nerves...who know I'd be studying chimpanzee personality disorder this early in the morning?

The point is that however an organism provides for itself, it needs to be taught that by maturity, which for animals is still sexual maturity, and for humans, is trending to near on to a full decade past sexual maturity.  And even in this thread, I would say that at least half, if not a majority, are holding on to that immaturity.

I agree with 46, the ability to ENJOY life like a child is one thing, but it should be clear that adults are actually adults...relatively open to new ideas, conscientious, able to relate in community, fairly agreeable and non-neurotic.

I really enjoyed reading this wiki article on personality assessment:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits


----------



## MrBrown (Oct 19, 2010)

clibb said:


> MrBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Brown didn't have much of a childhood either, hence why Brown wants better for his kids.  Whenever they come along.  Have to ask Mrs Brown about that one.
> ...



How in the bloody hell should Brown know?


----------



## wyoskibum (Oct 19, 2010)

*Don't worry......be happy!*



abckidsmom said:


> Now, through a trick that God is playing on me, I'm faced with the possibility of going to work at the place where he's been all this time while I've been having kids.  So he's likely to be a supervisor, or at least up there in the seniority.  Great.



I wouldn't worry about it.  Especially if he is now a supervisor, you will never see him.  He will be too busy keeping his seat warm and complaining about how no one appreciates how much work he does.


----------



## Aerin-Sol (Oct 19, 2010)

46Young said:


> You're killing me.
> 
> I was speaking in metaphor. Too many young adults (mid 20's and beyond, finished with school) continue to depend on their parents for room and board when they have, or ought to have the tools to move out and make their own way. It was discussed at length earlier in the thread. Try to keep up. An animal teaching it's young to feed itself before the teat dries up is also metaphor for those that are dependant on, or make a "career" out of entitlement programs. This could also be extended to the elderly on social security.




It was a poor metaphor based on inadequate understanding of one of the items you were comparing. I could argue that all non-human animals throw poop at each other when frustrated and claim it's a metaphor about why humans are mean to each other, but that would be silly because all non-human animals don't throw poop at each other, just as it's kind of silly to claim that all non-human animals are weaned before lactation ceases. There's no need to be rude and imply that I can't read (or whatever it is you're trying to imply by giving me the cliffnotes of a thread I already read) simply because I'm calling you out on the misinformation in your metaphor.



> And what type of point were you trying to prove with the example of the chimpanzee? I'd call it a strawman argument, but I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.



I was providing a quick example of an animal that does not do what you claimed all animals did. 



abckidsmom said:


> Poor choice of animal metaphor, I think.  Chimps also throw their feces at others who grate their nerves...who know I'd be studying chimpanzee personality disorder this early in the morning?



I wasn't picking them as an animal we should emulate. I was simply providing a quick counter-example of an animal that doesn't wean "before the teat dries up." Why are you studying chimp personality disorder? Are you taking a class on them or is it for funzies?


----------



## abckidsmom (Oct 19, 2010)

Aerin-Sol said:


> I wasn't picking them as an animal we should emulate. I was simply providing a quick counter-example of an animal that doesn't wean "before the teat dries up." Why are you studying chimp personality disorder? Are you taking a class on them or is it for funzies?



Oh, it was all spurred from this thread.  And physiologically, lactation doesn't end until the infant stops suckling.  There will almost always be at least some milk if there's a nursing infant, toddler, whatever.  

So there comes a point when every mother chooses to kick the kid to the curb, for whatever reason.

Or the offspring themselves decide that the time is up, and quit themselves.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 19, 2010)

Aerin-Sol said:


> It was a poor metaphor based on inadequate understanding of one of the items you were comparing. I could argue that all non-human animals throw poop at each other when frustrated and claim it's a metaphor about why humans are mean to each other, but that would be silly because all non-human animals don't throw poop at each other, just as it's kind of silly to claim that all non-human animals are weaned before lactation ceases. There's no need to be rude and imply that I can't read (or whatever it is you're trying to imply by giving me the cliffnotes of a thread I already read) simply because I'm calling you out on the misinformation in your metaphor.
> The point was that humans ought to be weaned before the "teat dries up," which means that they ought to make their own way after finishing school, when they qualify for and secure a job. Going away from the topic with the chimpanzee matter doesn't prove anything to the contrary. It's one species. Others understood my point. If you were trying to offer a counterpoint to my position, a more effective route would have been to discuss why a young adult should be under no obligation to leave their parent's home after completing school and gaining employment. The chimpanzee reference (a single species) didn't address that at all, and only served to derail the topic. Now you're talking about wielding feces and being mean to each other. Please attempt to stay on topic.
> 
> 
> ...


Like I said, if you're going to use counter examples, use them to support your position on the thread's topic. Do you feel that young adults should leave home when they are able to support themselves, or live with their parents indefinitely until they feel like moving out? A counter-example needs to prove something for your position (which you haven't stated as of yet), otherwise you're just going off on a useless tangent.


----------



## medic417 (Oct 19, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> How in the bloody hell should Brown know?



Considering they will have a surrogate father how could you know?:wacko:


----------



## Seaglass (Oct 19, 2010)

I never grew up, or I was always grown up. What I tell people depends on how arrogant I want to sound, but it's all the same. I had an unhappy and demanding childhood, but I can still go to Jackass 3D and laugh. 

Currently, I'm living with my parents. I work for the family business and save up for a move that will further my career. It lets us spend some time together after several years where we didn't see much of each other, helps all of us survive the recession, and makes it possible for me to chase some real success. I'm not ashamed of it.


----------



## 46Young (Oct 19, 2010)

Seaglass said:


> I never grew up, or I was always grown up. What I tell people depends on how arrogant I want to sound, but it's all the same. I had an unhappy and demanding childhood, but I can still go to Jackass 3D and laugh.
> 
> Currently, I'm living with my parents. I work for the family business and save up for a move that will further my career. It lets us spend some time together after several years where we didn't see much of each other, helps all of us survive the recession, and makes it possible for me to chase some real success. I'm not ashamed of it.



So long as you really have a goal and a timeframe in mind, and aren't using the reason of "saving up" as a vague goal that my last many years. You're also helping out the family financially where they otherwise wouldn't make ends meet.


----------



## medic417 (Oct 20, 2010)

MrBrown said:


> How in the bloody hell should Brown know?





medic417 said:


> Considering they will have a surrogate father how could you know?:wacko:



Inquiring minds need to know.  h34r:


----------



## HotelCo (Oct 21, 2010)

December 1, 2009.


----------



## piranah (Oct 21, 2010)

ya 40 a year is an approximate for BS..the 20/yr includes housing in a city such as prov,RI..give or take a bit..my point is it is not cheap..


----------

