# Black Widows in Arizona



## OreoThief (Oct 30, 2007)

Got a question for you guys...

I live in Arizona, and have noticed that there are a tremendous amount of Black Widows in the new ranch that we just purchased. I used to be terrified of scorpions when we first moved to Arizona until both my husband and 6 year old were stung, and they were fine... now they are just something that we look out for, and deal with. Black widows, on the other hand.... 

I have read lots of information on widows and their bites. My question is, does anyone have any experience with black widow bites or their treatment? Are they deadly to children? I have a 3 year old, and want to be prepared, just in case of anything. The darn things are everywhere! How are black widow bites handled with EMS? What is the first thing I need to do if one of them (or anyone) gets bit? Any ideas? I look forward to your feedback.


----------



## Guardian (Oct 30, 2007)

Keep your 3 y/o out of woodpiles and brush and he/she  should be fine.  I won't bore you with s/s since you have already probably read about them.  Treatment is supportive (basically meaning do nothing) and the goal should be antivenin as soon as possible.  Muscle relaxants, pn meds, etc can be given in the field by ems personnel, but this usually doesn't happen/isn’t necessary in my experience.  Death is possible, but rare.


----------



## Asclepius (Oct 30, 2007)

Basically the symptoms can mirror that of many other conditions. The main indicator is that the bite is extremely painful. Prehospital care is supportive following ACLS protocols.

With stings and poisons of various kinds different variations of warm and cold are indicated. In the case of Black Widow bites they recommend apply a cold compress. I don't believe a constrictive dressing is indicated, but I know cold is. Beyond that it is a matter of anti-venom vs. severity of envinomation.

This was a good source of information. http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic546.htm


----------



## Guardian (Oct 30, 2007)

I could be wrong, but I don’t think cold compress is recommended.  Black widows inject a neurotoxin that is painful, but doesn’t usually include localized swelling which would indicate use of cold compress.


----------



## Asclepius (Oct 30, 2007)

Management 
General 
Cold compresses or ice pack (prevents toxin spread) 
Thorough Wound Cleansing 
Steroid ointment 
Tetanus prophylaxis as needed 
Muscle spasms, rigidity, pain 
Calcium Gluconate 
Adult dose: 10 ml of 10% solution) slow IV infuse 
Can be repeated every 4 hours 
Diazepam (Valium) 
Infants/Toddlers: 0.2-5 mg slow IV infusion 
Older children and Adults: 10 mg slow IV infusion 
Methocarbamol (Robaxin) 
Adult dose: 10-30 ml slow IV infuse 
Calcium is more effective 
Pain relief (Analgesics) 
Use care with Narcotics: respiratory depression risk 


http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER13.htm


----------



## OreoThief (Oct 30, 2007)

Guardian said:


> Keep your 3 y/o out of woodpiles and brush and he/she  should be fine.



That's a bit silly.... accidents can and will happen, and that's why I wanted some insight. That's why we have EMS, right? Because "stuff" happens?

And by the way, black widows are found in a lot of other places that you wouldn't even imagine... not just woodpiles and brush. Found one today in the water spigot when we went to take a drink. It actually crawled out through the water and ONTO the spigot as I went to take a drink. No woodpile in sight, either. :glare:

Anyway, point is, if I happened to witness a bite, it is definitely NOT something to try and treat at home, like a bee sting or scorpion sting... correct?


----------



## OreoThief (Oct 30, 2007)

Asclepius said:


> http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER13.htm



Hey! This is great- thank you. Reading it now.....

Why the valium? Will that slow down the spread of the neurotoxins?


----------



## Asclepius (Oct 30, 2007)

Well, that is hard to say. It depends on how the patient is reacting and the level of envenomation. If the patient is symptomatic then it requires immediate attention. In the case of three year old, since the toxin affects the elderly and the very young you might have reason to be more concerned. What do we say in EMS??? Better to be safe than sorry, lets go get checked out just to be safe.


----------



## Asclepius (Oct 30, 2007)

OreoThief said:


> Hey! This is great- thank you. Reading it now.....
> 
> Why the valium? Will that slow down the spread of the neurotoxins?



The valium or other Benzo's are to stop muscle rigidity and/or spasms.


----------



## OreoThief (Oct 30, 2007)

any idea on how often seizures or rigidity presents itself as a symptom?


----------



## Asclepius (Oct 30, 2007)

OreoThief said:


> any idea on how often seizures or rigidity presents itself as a symptom?


I personally have never dealt with a BW spider bite so I can't give you statistics.


----------



## Guardian (Oct 31, 2007)

Asclepius said:


> Management
> General
> Cold compresses or ice pack (prevents toxin spread)
> Thorough Wound Cleansing
> ...



thanks for the great info!  If I ever get a real black widow spider bite, I'm putting cold on it!


----------



## Guardian (Oct 31, 2007)

OreoThief said:


> That's a bit silly.... accidents can and will happen, and that's why I wanted some insight. That's why we have EMS, right? Because "stuff" happens?
> 
> And by the way, black widows are found in a lot of other places that you wouldn't even imagine... not just woodpiles and brush. Found one today in the water spigot when we went to take a drink. It actually crawled out through the water and ONTO the spigot as I went to take a drink. No woodpile in sight, either. :glare:
> 
> Anyway, point is, if I happened to witness a bite, it is definitely NOT something to try and treat at home, like a bee sting or scorpion sting... correct?




I guess that was a bit obvious.  There's a point though, all you can really prevent is the obvious. You can't follow your 3 year old around every square inch of the yard.  I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.  If the child is bitten though, definitely take the child to a hospital.  It's way way more than a bee sting or a scorpion, according to what I've read and seen.


----------

