# BC vs AB as an ACP/EMT-P, your choice?



## McGoo (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm moving to Canada from Australia in a few years with my family and my Canadian wife. I am currently working at roughly the equivalent of ACP or EMT-P, with more education but a few less skills. From what I have found I will be able to work in either province without any extra training, once I jump the hurdles of getting registered.

I'm interested to hear from anyone who works for either of these services, or both, about what the work is like, good points, Bad points, etc as I still don't have a clear idea of where I want to work. What's the money like? How about choice of location? The service as a whole? I have no idea outside of what the official web pages tell me so far.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Medic Tim (Sep 1, 2012)

McGoo said:


> I'm moving to Canada from Australia in a few years with my family and my Canadian wife. I am currently working at roughly the equivalent of ACP or EMT-P, with more education but a few less skills. From what I have found I will be able to work in either province without any extra training, once I jump the hurdles of getting registered.
> 
> I'm interested to hear from anyone who works for either of these services, or both, about what the work is like, good points, Bad points, etc as I still don't have a clear idea of where I want to work. What's the money like? How about choice of location? The service as a whole? I have no idea outside of what the official web pages tell me so far.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I am in the process of licensing in both provinces now. Will let you know my experiences once I get. OUt there.


----------



## we talking bout practice (Sep 1, 2012)

Hope it goes well for both of you. The west is calling me as well.


----------



## CANDawg (Sep 2, 2012)

Alberta's scope wider than BC's, and is the widest in the country. I doubt there are many people from any corner of the world that can get an unrestricted card in Alberta without at least a little bit of upgrading or training. 

That said, ACP really likes to make it hard for people from outside the province to register. There are quite a few Canadians who come to Alberta to work the oilrigs, and (from what I've heard) the process is pretty drawn out. I can only assume its even worse for people applying internationally. Good luck, but definitely start the process early and expect to spend a good chunk of time and $$ making it happen.


----------



## McGoo (Sep 2, 2012)

dbo789 said:


> Alberta's scope wider than BC's, and is the widest in the country. I doubt there are many people from any corner of the world that can get an unrestricted card in Alberta without at least a little bit of upgrading or training.
> 
> That said, ACP really likes to make it hard for people from outside the province to register. There are quite a few Canadians who come to Alberta to work the oilrigs, and (from what I've heard) the process is pretty drawn out. I can only assume its even worse for people applying internationally. Good luck, but definitely start the process early and expect to spend a good chunk of time and $$ making it happen.



So far a Very HIgh Up person involved in BC training has told me that I won't need any more education (thank you bachelors degree!), and I just need to prove competent in their skills. I have 95% of them covered, with the exception of NG tubes and some drugs (ie we use salbutamol, but not ipratropium bromide, fentanyl but not morphine). 

I also spoke to the ex head of Edmonton EMS, he said I need to do PHTLS, PALS, and one other course, and I would be good to go for Alberta. I'm looking in to that at the moment, as my degree covers these topics, but I might just need the piece of paper to prove that I can indeed do a 12 lead.

I figured I would have to do some conversion and training along the way, which I don't mind. The major hurdle is proving each and every requirement on the skill sheet, as our service and training is done quite differently to theirs. It looks like a multi week exercise coming up just to fill out the paperwork!

As for being an uphill battle to get registered, that is the sort of info I am after. I'm planning on having cash reserves when we move, but if I need six months of money just to start work that could be a problem.


----------



## McGoo (Sep 2, 2012)

Medic Tim said:


> I am in the process of licensing in both provinces now. Will let you know my experiences once I get. OUt there.



Thanks for that. Where did you do your training?


----------



## Medic Tim (Sep 2, 2012)

McGoo said:


> Thanks for that. Where did you do your training?



Most of it was done in the USA and the rest in Canada. I am already licensed as an ACP in NB and NS so all I have to do is transfer my license.


----------



## Merck (Sep 3, 2012)

I've worked in BC for years.  Coming here you will be required once you have a license to complete a 'residency' program, which generally takes 3-4 months (paid) before you will be signed off by BCAS to work independently.  I don't know much about AB but working in BC can be quite fun.

Feel free to PM me for more info and let me know who you spoke to.

Cheers


----------



## Outbac1 (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm guessing you have a reason for moving to Alberta or BC besides the fact it is a few hours closer to Australia than our east coast.

 I jumped through Albertas hoops last year. It took a couple of months waiting for them to process everything. Only takes a few hrs to check out their "jurisprudence" exam material, and an hour or so to write it. It is all on line and open book.  Having said that I was transfering a Canadian license.

 I have several friends currently working in the oil patch. The money is good, ($550 - 650/day gross). However no benifits. You need to buy your own health insurance to include meds, short and long term disability. They also do not have a pension plan. Most places are 2 -3 weeks on and 2 -3 weeks off. 

 We had a coworker here a couple of years ago from BC. Long story short you need to check out full time employment carefully. Many jobs are rural and on call at low pay, which is why he came east.


----------



## Mr. Smith (Sep 5, 2012)

I am an ACP paramedic in BC and can provide a few details for you.

All the licensing info you want can be found here:

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/ema/

Have a look at the website and call them or email them directly for info on licensing requirements. It is constantly changing especially for out of province/country applicants. It has been a while since I acquired my license so all I can tell you is the practicals were challenging and the written was a joke. You may not have to do this as you are already licensed. 

Getting the appropriate work permits etc is the bigger challenge...

We are currently short of ACP paramedics in BC, there is plenty of full time work available. Having said that in BC we keep the assigned ACP positions to a minimum. The are only about 300 licensed ACP paramedics in BC and a couple of dozen of those are CCP. The point is, there is lots of work full time now but in three or four years this may not be the case, as we eventually catch up to the retirements.

A previous poster spoke of starting part time on call. This is applicable to the PCP level. We have 2500 + of those and high school grads are lining up to take the course...they will languish working part time at low wages for 5 + years before getting full time employment. ACP will go straight to a full time job in the city, for now.    

An ACP in BC starts at about 72,000 Canadian per year, after three years it is about 84,000. Vancouver, is a very expensive place to live, housing costs. Having said that there are communities in BC with ACP that are cheaper to purchase a house, you will likely start in Vancouver then lateral to another position after a while...

We seem to be hiring every four to 6 months currently, this will not last forever...

We are a targeted and layered system but do end up on a lot of PCP calls when we are the only available car...

Our scope of practice is comparable standard/average ACP EMS systems. Having said that your performance is expected to be high. We are targeted and are expected to act independently. 

If you get hired there is a mentorship process that lasts anywhere from 3 to 8 months. It currently has a 25% failure rate. We weed out those that are incompetent. If you are competent and willing you will do well. 

We have had people come from across Canada, those from Alberta and Ontario seem to do OK if they don't have an attitude and are willing to adapt. We have had people from Germany, the US, Australia and Britain come over. I can say that the current Australian that is going through the system seems to be doing fine. Others are struggling.

BC is full of mountains and rain with a short brief hot spot for two months in the summer.

Challenges that new ACPs here have (new to ACP or moving from another province)...
You are expected to take a leadership role, you have to make a treatment decision and then treat and carry or send them off with the PCP crew. There is very little, "well we'll just observe and see where this goes." 

Working in BC is for the most part enjoyable, we are targeted, you will do and see a lot. 

I can't speak for Alberta as I don't live or work there.

Good luck, whatever your choice.


----------



## fortsmithman (Sep 6, 2012)

Outbac1 said:


> I have several friends currently working in the oil patch. The money is good, ($550 - 650/day gross). However no benifits. You need to buy your own health insurance to include meds, short and long term disability. They also do not have a pension plan. Most places are 2 -3 weeks on and 2 -3 weeks off.



As well depending on the company you may have to pay all your own source deductions for federal and provincial tax and cpp and ei contributions.  As well with benefits it also depends on the company.  Short and long term disability is covered by in most cases WCB.  As for no pension plan they don't have one due to turnover of staff a majority don't stick around.


----------



## McGoo (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks all, I'll try and clear some things up from my end.



Outbac1 said:


> I'm guessing you have a reason for moving to Alberta or BC besides the fact it is a few hours closer to Australia than our east coast.
> 
> I jumped through Albertas hoops last year. It took a couple of months waiting for them to process everything. Only takes a few hrs to check out their "jurisprudence" exam material, and an hour or so to write it. It is all on line and open book.  Having said that I was transfering a Canadian license.
> 
> ...



My wife is from BC, and has lots of family in AB. We met in BC, Vernon to be exact, and we love it around there. Hence my choices of province.

As for rural part time jobs, the BC paramedics web page says all ACP staff are irregularly scheduled full time, and it looks like you start in Vancouver and move out from there, which is fine with me.



Mr. Smith said:


> I am an ACP paramedic in BC and can provide a few details for you.
> 
> All the licensing info you want can be found.....
> 
> <awesome info>........



Thanks for all that, that is exactly the sort of thing I am trying to find out. I've seen the ACP competency list, and I've had a look at that website. The difference in treatment regimen is interesting, to be honest I rather like the sound of making a decision and taking charge. It's more appealing to me than just sitting back, doing not much, and hoping all will be well.

I've been to Vancouver a few times, but not very much. The climate isnt what I would call ideal, but hey, you have to start somewhere. How long does it take to transfer out to Kelowna or Kamloops? (I love the okanagan, plus the family is there.)


----------



## Merck (Sep 7, 2012)

Kelowna is the only place in the Okanagan with ALS (ACP).  If you got hired full-time it would likely be into Vancouver (and it's 24 and sunny today, by the way ).  People are now getting into Kelowna with relatively little seniority, say a couple of years, but you never know how the future will go - may go higher, may go lower.  The other option is Kamloops (but I'm from the Okanagan originally so I'd go there too).

What Mr. Smith says is all true and the targeted system here is nice.  One of the things that's the hardest for people coming here is learning to hand off patients to a PCP (BLS) crew after assessment if they don't require your care.  It can be quite an art and difficult for people who aren't used to it.  That said, medicine is the same anywhere so it's really just a matter of learning the system and style.

Also, depending how you like to work it's pretty independent out here.  Guidelines should be followed but there is no specific medical oversight aside from the odd phone call to the emergency physician (although of course you're accountable for your decisions).

Good luck on your decision and feel free to PM if you want to know more.


----------

