COVID VACCINE - The Megathread

[Fezman92]

Does this mean that I’ll finally get a working 5G implant? The first one I got from Pfizer doesn’t work.

 

[ffemt8978]

Biden vaccine rule for health workers blocked in 10 states

A federal judge has blocked President Joe Biden's administration from enforcing a coronavirus vaccine mandate on health care workers in 10 states that had brought the first legal challenge against the requirement.

apnews.com

Another preliminary injunction against the vaccine mandate, this time for healthcare workers in certain states.

This case looks like it's going to hinge on if the government had the authority from Congress to implement the mandate, and if it followed the required procedures to make the rule.

 

[ffemt8978]

Biden vaccine rule for health workers blocked in 10 states

A federal judge has blocked President Joe Biden's administration from enforcing a coronavirus vaccine mandate on health care workers in 10 states that had brought the first legal challenge against the requirement.

apnews.com

Another preliminary injunction against the vaccine mandate, this time for healthcare workers in certain states.

This case looks like it's going to hinge on if the government had the authority from Congress to implement the mandate, and if it followed the required procedures to make the rule.

And now the healthcare mandate has been blocked via a preliminary injunction in the other 40 states.

Judge blocks Biden vaccine rule, citing “liberty interests of the unvaccinated”

Republican AGs win order blocking vaccine mandate for Medicare/Medicaid providers.

arstechnica.com

 

[Tigger]

I imagine that this won’t stop healthcare employers from mandating it, or states for that matter. At the end of the day employers are just not going to want to pay for the extra costs that unvaccinated workers have the potential to bring to them.

 

[ffemt8978]

I imagine that this won’t stop healthcare employers from mandating it, or states for that matter. At the end of the day employers are just not going to want to pay for the extra costs that unvaccinated workers have the potential to bring to them.

Very possible, but they may face unwanted costs in other areas too (employee shortages leading to more overtime, lawsuits, etc)

 

[Carlos Danger]

The hospital that I work for for is now owned by the largest health system in the country (HCA) and they told us early on that they would not mandate vaccinations unless forced to by the government. So they mandated them when the order first came out and then rescinded the mandate when it was stayed by the courts.

 

[Summit]

In CO there is a state mandate in place by the state Board of Health placed Aug 30.

The vast majority of those who were still unvaccinated in healthcare got the vaccine after mandate, while a few sought exemptions. The health systems have lost <1% of employees. High vaccination rates have led to very few staff out based on exposure/iso, so a net benefit to staffing.

The real staffing issues are due to staff burnout and the large COVID patient load.

 

[ffemt8978]

In CO there is a state mandate in place by the state Board of Health placed Aug 30.

The vast majority of those who were still unvaccinated in healthcare got the vaccine after mandate, while a few sought exemptions. The health systems have lost <1% of employees. High vaccination rates have led to very few staff out based on exposure/iso, so a net benefit to staffing.

The real staffing issues are due to staff burnout and the large COVID patient load.

At this point they've lost less than 1%, but what happens when the hundreds of religious exemption requests are processed and accepted or rejected by the DOH? For those that get rejected, there will almost certainly be lost jobs and/or lawsuits. For those that get accepted, it will only offer those seeking to avoid getting the vaccine more reasons to argue a mandate is not effective or necessary.

 

[Summit]

At this point they've lost less than 1%, but what happens when the hundreds of religious exemption requests are processed and accepted or rejected by the DOH? For those that get rejected, there will almost certainly be lost jobs and/or lawsuits. For those that get accepted, it will only offer those seeking to avoid getting the vaccine more reasons to argue a mandate is not effective or necessary.

You are contemplating a scenario that doesn't exist. The DOH isn't reviewing the exemptions. The employers are the ones reviewing medical or religious exemptions.

The mandate has been in effect for a while now. People either got vaccinated (most), had their exemptions approved by their employer (a few), or resigned/suspended (<1% of healthworkers). Health facilities have to report vaccine rates to CDPHE and the data is public. And going forward, having the vax is a requirement for students to rotate for their clinicals, as several other vaccines have been.

 

[ffemt8978]

You are contemplating a scenario that doesn't exist. The DOH isn't reviewing the exemptions. The employers are the ones reviewing medical or religious exemptions.

The mandate has been in effect for a while now. People either got vaccinated (most), had their exemptions approved by their employer (a few), or resigned/suspended (<1% of healthworkers). Health facilities have to report vaccine rates to CDPHE and the data is public. And going forward, having the vax is a requirement for students to rotate for their clinicals, as several other vaccines have been.

I misspoke....what happens when the CDPHE rejects the employers request for waivers because every waiver granted means the facility is not in compliance with the 100% vaccination mandate. The employer may grant an exemption on religious grounds only to see the CDPHE count the employer as not in compliance with the mandate.

 

[Summit]

I misspoke....what happens when the CDPHE rejects the employers request for waivers because every waiver granted means the facility is not in compliance with the 100% vaccination mandate. The employer may grant an exemption on religious grounds only to see the CDPHE count the employer as not in compliance with the mandate.

That hasn't been the case, nor is there an indication of any change like that, it isn't really how it works. Health facilities submits a plan to CDPHE if they are not 100% vaccinated and the plan explains a good waiver process and how they will be handling non-vaccinated waivered staff (testing, remote work, etc). Some people went for waivers and found out that a brazen attitude of "I don't wanna and you can't make me" is not a recognized religion nor medical condition. Others got their waivers signed.

What really happened is a vocal minority flapped their jaw about how they were gonna resign instead of getting vaccinated, many posted about their worries that there would be staffing shortages based on the loud protestations, but in reality almost everyone got vaccinated, a few people got waivers, and only a tiny minority, mostly not bedside care providers, refused didn't get the waiver or the shot.

 

[mgr22]

Some people went for waivers and found out that a brazen attitude of "I don't wanna and you can't make me" is not a recognized religion nor medical condition.

That covers almost every person who told me why they won't get vaccinated. It's a big change from the public health system I grew up with: cooperation, in general, between citizens and their government, and a shared belief that much less death and disability would result from vaccines than whatever we were being vaccinated against.

 

[ffemt8978]

NYC has now gone down the rabbit hole of issuing a vaccine mandate instead of passing an actual law. The mandate goed into effect on Dec 27 but guidelines for exemptions won't be issued until Dec 15.

NYC to impose vaccine mandate on private sector employers

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio says all private employers big and small in the city will have to require their workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19 by Dec. 27.

apnews.com

 

[Seirende]

I'm so so grateful that my casually antivax 60 y.o. mother got this particular vaccine because yesterday she tested positive for COVID-19. With the track record of the vaccines at preventing serious outcomes, we're not too worried. Plus since everyone else in the household is also fully vaccinated, CDC says we don't need to quarantine as long as we wear masks (and are sensible, e.g. I'm not going out to the coffeeshop).

Bit of a bummer that the symptoms started the day after our Thanksgiving gathering, but again, given that everyone besides my three little niblings have been vaccinated, it's not a huge concern.

 

[EpiEMS]

NYC has now gone down the rabbit hole of issuing a vaccine mandate instead of passing an actual law. The mandate goed into effect on Dec 27 but guidelines for exemptions won't be issued until Dec 15.

NYC to impose vaccine mandate on private sector employers

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio says all private employers big and small in the city will have to require their workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19 by Dec. 27.

apnews.com

NYC has achieved high vaccination rates in large part through a de facto mandate - you can’t go out to eat, go to museums, go to shows, the gym, movies, etc. in the city unless you are vaccinated. It’s a soft mandate and this is just covering the last few holdouts.

 

[ffemt8978]

NYC has achieved high vaccination rates in large part through a de facto mandate - you can’t go out to eat, go to museums, go to shows, the gym, movies, etc. in the city unless you are vaccinated. It’s a soft mandate and this is just covering the last few holdouts.

My issue is with how the mandates are created. There's been ample time to pass laws requiring them, instead of one elected individual issuing an executive order (especially, as in this case, it was issued by a lame duck mayor on his way out of office.), or an agency which is appointed and not elected.

In a society governed by the rule of law, the ends do not justify the means...no matter how important you view the end as being.

 

[EpiEMS]

My issue is with how the mandates are created. There's been ample time to pass laws requiring them, instead of one elected individual issuing an executive order (especially, as in this case, it was issued by a lame duck mayor on his way out of office.), or an agency which is appointed and not elected.

In a society governed by the rule of law, the ends do not justify the means...no matter how important you view the end as being.

I hear you, legislation is eminently preferable. It’s quite dysfunctional that we are getting (but I would argue we need) executive driven mandates at this point.

 

[ffemt8978]

I hear you, legislation is eminently preferable. It’s quite dysfunctional that we are getting (but I would argue we need) executive driven mandates at this point.

Hard to say we need executive driven mandates when there hasn't even been an attempt to go the legislative route yet.

 

[EpiEMS]

Hard to say we need executive driven mandates when there hasn't even been an attempt to go the legislative route yet.

I'd be surprised if any legislature could get much done, even in New York, particularly to do something narrowly focused & technical.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I'd be surprised if any legislature could get much done, even in New York, particularly to do something narrowly focused & technical.

But isn’t that kind of the point of our system of government? If legislation can’t be passed, there is a reason for that.