Why are Paramedics paid so little?

Hockey said:
I make $36 a hour as a road medic in the US, in Michigan. Where do you guys all work? lol
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Very interesting,money sounds good but lets get the big picture. There are many things in life that pay big money but is it really a "gravy gig" or us it one of those pain in the butt jobs where they have to pay that in order to get people to work. An example would be truck drivers making 100k+ in the North Dakota oil and gas fields. Great money and if you make it more than a few months your probably good to go but its a god awful job most of the time. Here are a few things I would want to know.

Hours per week.
Benefits.
Long term job security,would you pull a mortgage thinking you could retire there.
Working conditions.
Turn over rate,big money and high turnover equals red flags.
 
Level1pedstech said:
Hours per week.
Benefits.
Long term job security,would you pull a mortgage thinking you could retire there.
Working conditions.
Turn over rate,big money and high turnover equals red flags.
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Hours: 24/72
Benefits: Full benefits, including full healthcare, vision, dental, life, CMEs. Also one of the lowest costs of living in the country.
Security: You have to commit murder to get fired from here.
Conditions: One (very) big family. Every now and then there's a troll that likes to pull rank, but they're few and far between.
Turn over: People leave when they retire. That's about it.

Don't be so skeptical. The "gravy trains" are out there. You just have to be willing to move around and work to get them. If you stay locked to your current location, you considerably limit yourself. There are several on here that are actively looking at some of the best gigs in the country. Those guys have a much better shot at making it to one of your mythical "gravy trains." N7s already done this. He seems to be enjoying it pretty well. Just mention Delaware and watch him go on and on about his awesome gig that he had to move literally across the country for.
 
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PoeticInjustice said:
Hours: 24/72
Benefits: Full benefits, including full healthcare, vision, dental, life, CMEs. Also one of the lowest costs of living in the country.
Security: You have to commit murder to get fired from here.
Conditions: One (very) big family. Every now and then there's a troll that likes to pull rank, but they're few and far between.
Turn over: People leave when they retire. That's about it.

Don't be so skeptical. The "gravy trains" are out there. You just have to be willing to move around and work to get them. If you stay locked to your current location, you considerably limit yourself. There are several on here that are actively looking at some of the best gigs in the country. Those guys have a much better shot at making it to one of your mythical "gravy trains." N7s already done this. He seems to be enjoying it pretty well. Just mention Delaware and watch him go on and on about his awesome gig that he had to move literally across the country for.
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No skepticism here I always point out that there are some good jobs out there but they are the exception not the rule. These jobs also tend to be in areas with very high costs of living which means a commute or a second job to make ends meet. Once again this is not always the case but alot of times it is. In real money 25p/hr in NY city is equal to 11 p/hr in Mule Lick Texas. The majority of jobs in pre hospital EMS do not I repeat do not pay a liveable family wage you can point out the few that do but what about the 90% that dont ?
 
Don't hate on Mule lick! That's right down the road from me! :D :rofl:

I definitely agree that there are considerably more poor-paying EMS jobs than there are well-paying. Thus the need to move and advance yourself to get one of the well-paying ones.
 
NYMedic828 said:
Why is that so hard to believe?

One hospital here in NYC pays per diem $37.50 an hour.

I make $30 an hour sitting in a flycar of a volunteer firehouse.

$32 an hour roughly top pay FDNY EMS medic.

$23 as an EMT. Top pay
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Because I make $9 and he makes roughly around $13-14.
 
PoeticInjustice said:
Don't hate on Mule lick! That's right down the road from me! :D :rofl:

I definitely agree that there are considerably more poor-paying EMS jobs than there are well-paying. Thus the need to move and advance yourself to get one of the well-paying ones.
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I would live in Mule Lick or just about anywhere else in the lone star state. Texas has got it going on and its economy and the number of oeople headed that way is only going to grow.

We have transportation offices all over the state but I am thinking Plainview. After moving from WA to CA I might have to drag my wife and kids kicking and screaming out of Cali but since I make all the money they will make the move.
 
Anjel1030 said:
Rightttt and I make $20 as a basic.
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I'm working on that... I only make 19 an hour as a basic, but with a $2 night differential, I make a decent living. full time Paramedics start at 25 or so, and I think per diems start at $31.

True, our guys work their asses off, but if you live in Mule Lick and do only 2 calls a shift, you probably won't make as much as someone who is doing 10-16 calls.

Not only that, but if you work for-profit, you will almost always make less than a non-profit or tax payer funded employee.

And with all jobs, if you don't like the salary, either move to an area where the pay is better, work for a better agency, find a new career, or get educated and move up in the ranks.

oh, and i'm looking at a side job (because I want it, not because I need it), and they are going to pay me $16 an hour. maybe it's just some places value EMTs more?
 
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As a new grad BSN RN I will be making around $25 an hour so it sounds like a lot of you guys have it pretty good. In comparison an emt basic around here is ~$10 / hr
 
ChaseZ33 said:
As a new grad BSN RN I will be making around $25 an hour so it sounds like a lot of you guys have it pretty good. In comparison an emt basic around here is ~$10 / hr
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Good job on getting thru your program you have a secure future ahead of you and the opportunities are going to be many. Just to use as an example could you tell us how much time you have invested in your education to this point. We understand every student is different and the time they take can vary depending on thier situation.
 
Level1pedstech said:
Good job on getting thru your program you have a secure future ahead of you and the opportunities are going to be many. Just to use as an example could you tell us how much time you have invested in your education to this point. We understand every student is different and the time they take can vary depending on thier situation.
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Thanks, I am not quite done yet I graduate in December. Most of my friends graduated in May. When I am all done it will end up being about 4 years, which is pretty standard. 2 years (4 semesters with summers off) of pre nursing classes and then 2 years (5 semesters year round) of actual nursing school.

I think it really depends on your region and particular school. For my prerequisites I took anatomy and physiology (2 separate classes), med school microbiology, nutrition, bio, chem, multiple human development classes, algebra, medical terminology, English I and II, and enough humanities to end up with two minors (psychology and Philosphy) while having to maintain to 3.5 to be competitive for admission. Oh and I got my EMT-B while doing that. I am not saying this is typical because I know a lot of other schools that require much less.

Here are the prerequisites for the paramedic program at the university that I attended.

COURSE PREREQUISITES/REQUIREMENTS: Applicants must:
1. Be 18 years of age.
2. Have a high school diploma or G.E.D.
3. Be currently licensed as an Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) by the State of Missouri.
4. Have three professional letters of recommendation from individuals that are familiar with the
applicants EMS background, work experience or personal attributes. These individuals must not
be related to the applicant.
5. Have current certification in AHA Healthcare Provider CPR.
6. Have current health care insurance.
7. Have current medical liability insurance. 1million/3million
8. Be of good mental and physical health and able to lift and carry 100 to 150 lbs.
9. Be a U.S. Citizen or have a legal right to work in the U.S.
10. Have a valid email address and regular access to a computer
11. Have an up-to-date criminal background check from the Missouri State Highway Patrol, the Office
of the Inspector General, the Caregiver Background Screening, and the Employee Disqualification
Listing.
12. Background check through Validity Screening at student expense contact EMS Education office
for details.



Not to get into a huge debate but about Nurse vs paramedic but you can see there is a huge difference. Maybe that is why nurses are expected to be paid more. Also the paramedic program is around $5000. My education cost me over $45,000 :wacko:. Again that was my choice to go to certain schools but the initial investment in time and money in education is huge.
 
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JPINFV said:
Which medical school did you take micro at?
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University of Missouri - Columbia (Mizzou). I was on of the lucky few who did not get a spot in the Nursing school track so I was given the option of waiting until next year and being a semester behind or taking the medical school track (since it was a higher level class it would count as credit) . I chose the latter. Horrible decision, it took every thing I had to pass that class.


Edit: Sorry that sounds misleading, it would be better described as pre-med micro not med school micro. I should have worded that differently. It was a much more advanced and thorough class than most of the ones designed for pre-nursing.
 
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JPINFV said:
Medical school track? When I hear of tracks, I think of undergrad, not medical school. Were your fellow students premeds or medical students?
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I edited my post. It was undergraduate pre med class not medical school. Sorry for the confusion. I was not trying to portray it as medical school I should have said pre med. I understand it is totally different

The class was held in the actual medical school, that counts right? Haha
 
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ChaseZ33 said:
Thanks, I am not quite done yet I graduate in December. Most of my friends graduated in May. When I am all done it will end up being about 4 years, which is pretty standard. 2 years (4 semesters with summers off) of pre nursing classes and then 2 years (5 semesters year round) of actual nursing school.

I think it really depends on your region and particular school. For my prerequisites I took anatomy and physiology (2 separate classes), med school microbiology, nutrition, bio, chem, multiple human development classes, algebra, medical terminology, English I and II, and enough humanities to end up with two minors (psychology and Philosphy) while having to maintain to 3.5 to be competitive for admission. Oh and I got my EMT-B while doing that. I am not saying this is typical because I know a lot of other schools that require much less.

Here are the prerequisites for the paramedic program at the university that I attended.

COURSE PREREQUISITES/REQUIREMENTS: Applicants must:
1. Be 18 years of age.
2. Have a high school diploma or G.E.D.
3. Be currently licensed as an Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) by the State of Missouri.
4. Have three professional letters of recommendation from individuals that are familiar with the
applicants EMS background, work experience or personal attributes. These individuals must not
be related to the applicant.
5. Have current certification in AHA Healthcare Provider CPR.
6. Have current health care insurance.
7. Have current medical liability insurance. 1million/3million
8. Be of good mental and physical health and able to lift and carry 100 to 150 lbs.
9. Be a U.S. Citizen or have a legal right to work in the U.S.
10. Have a valid email address and regular access to a computer
11. Have an up-to-date criminal background check from the Missouri State Highway Patrol, the Office
of the Inspector General, the Caregiver Background Screening, and the Employee Disqualification
Listing.
12. Background check through Validity Screening at student expense contact EMS Education office
for details.



Not to get into a huge debate but about Nurse vs paramedic but you can see there is a huge difference. Maybe that is why nurses are expected to be paid more. Also the paramedic program is around $5000. My education cost me over $45,000 :wacko:. Again that was my choice to go to certain schools but the initial investment in time and money in education is huge.
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Thanks for taking the time to lay it out for us. The medic program I was looking at in WA was closer to 10k plus pre reqs. When people start droaning on about increasing the level of education for paramedics I like to question the return on investment. We are all for advancing education but there has to be a benefit at the end of the line.

No doubt there is a very huge difference between the two both in education and in the money you can expect to earn over your life time. You will be starting at 25.00 p/hr but have the ability to make much more as you gain experience and discover opportunities that you find interesting. I have worked with CC RN's in the ER that were well above 50.00 p/hr with all the little extras added in. They worked 3 12's and have plenty of time off to enjoy life.

Some people want medics to have your education or more but they know MOST medics will never see north of 25.00 p/hr in thier life time. Some may fall into a higher paying gig but I would think 25.00 p/hr is the ceiling for most medics. More than a few medics I know are working second jobs to make ends meet which does not allow much time to enjoy life.

There are those that believe that better educated "professional" providers can demand better pay. Ask them where the money and jobs will come from and they all have to step back and face the cold hard facts. EMS is not set up to provide two RN's on every rig. It stuggles along in most systems with a basic and a medic who togeather might make 25.00 p/hr.
 
Level1pedstech said:
There are those that believe that better educated "professional" providers can demand better pay. Ask them where the money and jobs will come from and they all have to step back and face the cold hard facts. EMS is not set up to provide two RN's on every rig. It stuggles along in most systems with a basic and a medic who togeather might make 25.00 p/hr.
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As long as paramedics are seen as medical technician taxi drivers, then they're over educated and properly paid for what they do. If paramedics want to do something else than medical taxi work while following a cookbookocol, then the current education isn't nearly enough. The problem is that you can't be expected to do non-taxi non-cookbookocol work and THEN get more education. You have to have the education to justify the additional work, and subsequent reimbursement.


What I find interesting is the attitude of, "Well, things aren't working. We're struggling to get by because insurance views us as nothing more than a taxi (hence only being reimbursed when we transport). However, even though it's a failing system, we can't change anything on our end because it's too expensive for us. Pay us more, allow us to do more, and then we'll get the education to do it properly. After all, what could go wrong when we do things we aren't educated to do?"

[insert story of DCFD leaving a chest pain patient at home because they thought a pulmonary embolism was GERD]
 
crashh said:
wow.
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Seeing no quote, I'm assuming this was in response to me.

Do I sense a bit a biwilderment about how blunt my post was?

True or false, Medicare is the largest reimburse for EMS?

True or false, Medicare only pays EMS for transports?

True or false, taxis are the stereotypical occupation when it comes to moving humans from point A to point B as an on demand service?

I'm not saying anyone has to like it, just that it has to be recognized. Hopefully EMS providers will eventually get "as mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore." However there's simply too much apathy and "look at the cool toys" mentality right now.

Network.jpg
 
I just looked over my post.

True or false, i spell good todey?
 
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