Why are Paramedics paid so little?

[Hunter]

I hate to say this but I graduated with an AS in Emergency medical services and feel like it was a waste of time unless I decide to study something else. I an paid just like any other EMS professional/employee (depending on how you behave). A degree will do nothing else for my salary as far as a career as a pre hospital care provider.

 

[crashh]

They want you to be a medic to make THEM money. Work as an EMT, go to nursing school. Secure a better future for yourself.

If you are just finishing EMT, you probably haven't been with the company long enough to know you wanna work there for 4 more years.

I've been with the company for almost a year as a firefighter/ambulance driver. I know i like the company, that's doesn't worry me at all.

I'm just wondering if it's a waste of time to do this or not

 

[Christopher]

Respectfully disagreeing with almost everyone here, but WE don't give each other credit.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my EMT class (in New York State and New Jersey, I took them both), there were people who didn't pass. I know people who were in the paramedic program (in both NJ and NY), who didn't pass. You know what? not everyone can do this job, not everyone can pass the classes. Yes, maybe our entrance prerequisites are too low (or non-existent), but like other educational programs, people who enroll do not always pass.

As I saw in my EMT and paramedic classes, most folks washed out because they weren't ready for more schooling. By and large they figured they could skate on by to get out of some low paying job elsewhere and into the "exciting and expanding field of medicine."

The current EMT curriculum is not rocket surgery. I think you're fooling yourself by believing these folks failed because they, "just weren't cut out for EMS".

why are we paid so little? well, to start, many EMS agencies are for-profit, so the lower they pay their paramedics, the more profit for the company. we can also go with the idea that most EMS systems aren't tax funded (unlike fire and police) so they generate most of their revenue from what they make transporting people. With medicare and medicaid abuse and declining returns, you have less money to spend on salaries.

The job market is flooded with able bodies, call volumes are increasing, and the ROI (return on investment) is decreasing. Of course wages will slack.

And then there is the big one. no, it's not supply and demand (although that does play a large role in many areas). Paramedics are WILLING to work for those low wages. EMTs are WILLING to work for lower wages. if a paramedic will work for $12 an hour, why should any company pay more? if an EMT will work for $9 an hour, why should any company pay more?

Actually that is a supply/demand issue, just it's on the other side. But that's really just semantics and not salient to the discussion. There are Paramedics/EMTs willing to take that pay because it is fair based on the work they put into becoming an EMT or Paramedic. We wouldn't have excess labor if this weren't the case...

Education does come into play, but it all boils down to the simple fact that people are willing to work for those sucky wages. and if they won't, employers will find some new hires who will.

And how do you fix that problem? By raising the educational bar.

 

[Christopher]

I've been with the company for almost a year as a firefighter/ambulance driver. I know i like the company, that's doesn't worry me at all.

I'm just wondering if it's a waste of time to do this or not

Paramedicine is a waste of time if you don't want to be a Paramedic. If you want to make money I'd get out of medicine.

If you want challenging work in a growing field, being a Paramedic can be one way to achieve that; but, expect to do it for little reward beyond the personal satisfaction that you enjoy your job.

You may find the easy way to balance making money and challenging work is to work multiple jobs. I've gone that route and wouldn't give it up. I'm also not human (I'm an engineer), so I can't say it'd work for you.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Starting pay at my company is 17 per hour with a 48 hour schedule. That's just under 46,000 a year for two days of work a week. Not to bad for less than a year and a half of school.

That leaves time for a second job or OT. I realize that it kinda sucks and it would be nice to work 40 hours 9-5 with weekends and holidays off but it is what is.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I've been with the company for almost a year as a firefighter/ambulance driver. I know i like the company, that's doesn't worry me at all.

I'm just wondering if it's a waste of time to do this or not

Trust me with this advice because I have seen several people go the route Im going to recommend. They are doing what they love, are very happy and more importantly financialy secure.

Get your RN out of the way then do what you need to get your medic cert. With a nursing job you will have a schedule that better allows for you to pursue your outside interests. Your pay could be double if not more than what you would be able to make as a medic.

Also with the higher education your going to be a valuable asset to any agencies EMS operation paid or volunteer. You will be a better educated field provider and your ability to teach others will be greatly enhanced. Its a win all the way around.

 

[Level1pedstech]

Starting pay at my company is 17 per hour with a 48 hour schedule. That's just under 46,000 a year for two days of work a week. Not to bad for less than a year and a half of school.

That leaves time for a second job or OT. I realize that it kinda sucks and it would be nice to work 40 hours 9-5 with weekends and holidays off but it is what is.

Thats an ok position but we all know the majority of employers are going to be paying in the 10.00-14.00 range for medics starting out. You can get your RN with just a little more time in school,be better educated and be making in most cases 20.00+ p/hr to start.

How about this for a good return on investment, 45K+ for one month of school. Trucking companies are in serious need of people that have clean driving records and decent backrounds. Its not the most glamorous of jobs but for people that are in need of work or cant find EMS work it pays almost twice what medics are making at the low to mid level pay rate.

 

[BigBad]

i make great money. Trick is finding where to make it. Look for well a fluent towns and county's where the cost of living is slightly higher. The majority of my coworkers commute to my ski town from the city.

 

[Level1pedstech]

Great money to one person could mean poverty to another. When This topic comes up Im always careful to point out that there are some good paying jobs out there. However for the majority of you EMS is not going to provide the income needed to raise a family.

A quick google search on how much annual income is required to support a family of four gave me a figure right at 69K. This is of course an average and many families get by on much less. According to the article this income level does not allow for a vacation,dinners out or extra money for your 401K.

Based on the 69K figure if you plan to be the sole provider for your family your going to need an EMS job that is paying 33.00 per hour. How many of you know someone making that kind of money?

Once again 69K for a family of four is an average but I believe its a good number to work with,its less than the 80K I like to use. Younger people need to be better informed before they drop a bundle of money and a year or more of thier time into training that in most cases will never give them the earning power required to raise a family.

 

[DrParasite]

As I saw in my EMT and paramedic classes, most folks washed out because they weren't ready for more schooling. By and large they figured they could skate on by to get out of some low paying job elsewhere and into the "exciting and expanding field of medicine."

The current EMT curriculum is not rocket surgery. I think you're fooling yourself by believing these folks failed because they, "just weren't cut out for EMS".

most field aren't rocket surgery. hell, rocket surgery isn't that hard, all you need is the proper tools to do surgery on rockets (a small welding torch, some eletronic gizmos, etc), and you are good to go.

The job market is flooded with able bodies, call volumes are increasing, and the ROI (return on investment) is decreasing. Of course wages will slack.

really? because the market is flooded with lawyers, law schools are pump more out than their are jobs available. and yet, lawyers still get paid pretty well, once they get a job.

Actually that is a supply/demand issue, just it's on the other side. But that's really just semantics and not salient to the discussion. There are Paramedics/EMTs willing to take that pay because it is fair based on the work they put into becoming an EMT or Paramedic. We wouldn't have excess labor if this weren't the case...And how do you fix that problem? By raising the educational bar.

if you make being a paramedic a PhD program, and people (new PhD grads) are accepting $9 an hour, than that's why wages are low.

BTW, my agency started EMTs at $18/hr. my former employer started EMTs at $15.75. for every 1 position, we have close to 100 applications, and of those, 50 -75 meet the qualification. however, people aren't willing to work in a crappy city and do 12-20 911 jobs in 12 hours for less than $18 an hour. And paramedics start higher than that.

Yes, it is supply and demand issue, but when people will accept $9, for an EMT job, that's why it's so low. if no one in the EMS industry refused to work for less than $15 an hour, no hold outs, no newbies desperate for a job, if NO one would work for less, than wages would rise.

 

[sir.shocksalot]

most field aren't rocket surgery. hell, rocket surgery isn't that hard, all you need is the proper tools to do surgery on rockets (a small welding torch, some eletronic gizmos, etc), and you are good to go.

I am not a rocket surgeon, but I do think rocket surgery is a lot more complicated than having tools to work on rockets. I haven't seen a rocket surgery program, but I imagine that it is similar to an engineering program, which all require in the first two years: Calculus 1-3, calculus-based physics 1-2, Chemistry, and assorted other mathematical classes that most people are quite incapable of intellectually grasping. I understand you were using a metaphor but I feel like you stretched it a little too far. It would be like saying my lab coat and scalpel make me a surgeon.

because the market is flooded with lawyers, law schools are pump more out than their are jobs available. and yet, lawyers still get paid pretty well, once they get a job.

Actually lawyer's pay is decreasing because of this. Lawyers are graduating in increasing numbers with increasing amounts of debt and are willing (more like required) to work for low wages just so they can make payments on school loans that are similar in size to medical school loans. While their pay is still high it is decreasing due to supply and demand. (source: http://www.abajournal.com/news/arti...ads_is_on_downward_shift_drop_is_largest_for/)

BTW, my agency started EMTs at $18/hr. my former employer started EMTs at $15.75. for every 1 position, we have close to 100 applications, and of those, 50 -75 meet the qualification. however, people aren't willing to work in a crappy city and do 12-20 911 jobs in 12 hours for less than $18 an hour. And paramedics start higher than that.

Yes, it is supply and demand issue, but when people will accept $9, for an EMT job, that's why it's so low. if no one in the EMS industry refused to work for less than $15 an hour, no hold outs, no newbies desperate for a job, if NO one would work for less, than wages would rise.

This will not and could not happen. If I could walk away from my job then I would, but I am not qualified to do much else. As a result I have to accept the wages I am offered or become homeless.

I don't know where you work and won't bother trying to postulate why your wages are so high. Fire departments have a similar thing going though, very high pay, very high number of applicants, very limited number of openings. The high pay of firefighters is largely a result of their union and limited numbers of people leaving the job. County/3rd service agencies also benefit from large numbers of applicants due to the "prestige" of a 911 job, these services also lose employees much slower than private agencies and they tend to pay their employees more because they aren't wasting money on training new employees all the time.

Pay is a 100% supply and demand issue. The only times this doesn't come into effect is when a union is involved. As long as we keep luring people in with promises of adrenaline and life saving for as little as 2 months of school, wages are going to continue to be crappy. Due to the fragmented nature of EMS I don't really see this situation changing any time soon.

 

[crashh]

Great money to one person could mean poverty to another. When This topic comes up Im always careful to point out that there are some good paying jobs out there. However for the majority of you EMS is not going to provide the income needed to raise a family.

A quick google search on how much annual income is required to support a family of four gave me a figure right at 69K. This is of course an average and many families get by on much less. According to the article this income level does not allow for a vacation,dinners out or extra money for your 401K.

Based on the 69K figure if you plan to be the sole provider for your family your going to need an EMS job that is paying 33.00 per hour. How many of you know someone making that kind of money?

Once again 69K for a family of four is an average but I believe its a good number to work with,its less than the 80K I like to use. Younger people need to be better informed before they drop a bundle of money and a year or more of thier time into training that in most cases will never give them the earning power required to raise a family.

good lord, 69K? I raised 2 kids on MUCH less than that.

 

[Level1pedstech]

good lord, 69K? I raised 2 kids on MUCH less than that.

Many others have as well,its really all about location. Like any other "average" you have to consider all the factors in order to get to the number thats right for you. Right behind location is lifestyle,things like toys and a couple of vacations each year require a larger income. Its like the old saying " theres a difference in living and living well".

My household income has been well above that 69K figure for at least the last ten years and has never been below it for the last seventeen thanks to my former teamster job. Even now my non union job pays well above that but I can tell you its tight on one income here in So Cal. Many families with two incomes live on less here as well as in other places but its not easy especially in the more popular areas.

 

[Keka]

Again, where are the strong EMS unions? Fire and police have solid unions, and thus don't get screwed into low wages. Fire and police in my town can make 60k plus easy (usually more), and my town by no means has a high cost of living. We're having a fire department merger next month, and nothing got done without the approval of their air tight union representation. Maybe I'm ignorant because I'm new to this, but I don't understand it.

 

[EpiEMS]

Again, where are the strong EMS unions? Fire and police have solid unions, and thus don't get screwed into low wages.

Fire and police are almost always (if not always) delivered by government. EMS is not necessarily a government service - it's often private companies. Public employees are more likely to be unionized. Why, I couldn't say. But maybe it's because of the place that EMS occupies in between healthcare and public safety?

 

[Level1pedstech]

Fire and police are almost always (if not always) delivered by government. EMS is not necessarily a government service - it's often private companies. Public employees are more likely to be unionized. Why, I couldn't say. But maybe it's because of the place that EMS occupies in between healthcare and public safety?

With the exception of right to work (for less) states anyone can ask for union representation and become organized. Now the question is will the employer be receptive and enter into talks with your union reps and enter into a contract. As long as you have reasonable demands and dont shoot for the moon you probably have a decent shot. Many people are ignorant to the fact that employers can also benefit from a contract if they put reasonable requests on the table. Its all about the back and forth. Even in right to work states its possible to organize but you will need power.

One thing that will work against any effort to organize will be the large number of chumps that will work for less than liveable wages. There are alot of people looking for work right now and unions are falling out of favor with the general public. Best thing anyone who is interested can do is call your union of choice and ask to speak to an organizer,they could answer any questions you have and advise you on how to get started.

When I first started with the teamsters in Portland,OR I thought only truck drivers were teamsters. The IBT represents people from every line of work from drivers to cops to plant workers. Without a doubt they would be my first call.

I left the union to work for the company that the unions consider thier number one target to organize. My seventeen years with the teamsters were fine and I have a decent pension waiting down the line. My new employer treats me better and offers a better work environment. Do I need union representation with my current employer,no but I did not personaly need it at my old employer either. The union was there at contract time and thats what justified my 50.00 per month in dues.

 

[crashh]

Many others have as well,its really all about location. Like any other "average" you have to consider all the factors in order to get to the number thats right for you. Right behind location is lifestyle,things like toys and a couple of vacations each year require a larger income. Its like the old saying " theres a difference in living and living well".

My household income has been well above that 69K figure for at least the last ten years and has never been below it for the last seventeen thanks to my former teamster job. Even now my non union job pays well above that but I can tell you its tight on one income here in So Cal. Many families with two incomes live on less here as well as in other places but its not easy especially in the more popular areas.

I disagree with the living/living well. It's not how much you make really but how much you choose to take on to sink all your money into. Or what kind of standard of living you think you have to have. A good share of the population has no idea how much of a slave they are to what they own. Just my .02 of course

 

[BigBad]

Great money to one person could mean poverty to another. When This topic comes up Im always careful to point out that there are some good paying jobs out there. However for the majority of you EMS is not going to provide the income needed to raise a family.

Unless you find your niche specializing in teaching or emergency management or CQI you would be a fool to think you can find a street paramedic job paying 69K a year. That is only possible with Fire and it would take years to make that working up from 50-55k. 69k is even a stretch for nurses without graduate education. Maybe my director makes that, Maybe.


With that being said, I cleared 70K last year because of overtime.

 

[Level1pedstech]

I disagree with the living/living well. It's not how much you make really but how much you choose to take on to sink all your money into. Or what kind of standard of living you think you have to have. A good share of the population has no idea how much of a slave they are to what they own. Just my .02 of course

The living/living well is of course a matter of opinion but at the end of the day most people would probably choose to have the "living well" money even if they choose to just get by.

 

[Level1pedstech]

Unless you find your niche specializing in teaching or emergency management or CQI you would be a fool to think you can find a street paramedic job paying 69K a year. That is only possible with Fire and it would take years to make that working up from 50-55k. 69k is even a stretch for nurses without graduate education. Maybe my director makes that, Maybe.


With that being said, I cleared 70K last year because of overtime.

Overtime is great but setting long term goals that depend on it is not so good. Not that your doing that but many do and then get into trouble becuse they thought it would always be there. Besides in twenty years many of the people who are working the killer overtime now will look back and say "I would rather have had the time". Even if your not funding lifestyle and instead are banking cash theres another old saying "you cant take it with you when you go".