Walmart Raises Minimum Wage to $10 - Why Not EMS?

[MonkeyArrow]

@akflightmedic I think the answer to seeing the hypocrisy is a resounding no. Judging by the past few likes Angel has give out, to DEMedic's comment about opening a closed mind and to SandPitMedics, coupled with the beer response, I'm fairly convinced he/she does not want to have an educated discussion, and has retreated to trolling. (Where's the "don't feed the trolls" smiley mods???)

 

[SandpitMedic]

She's just having a bad day.

Life goes on away from the EMTlife screen.

 

[looker]

I appreciate the entire post, but the bolded part is key.

The side that thinks that EMS isn't making enough money does nothing to get them to that point, unless you consider whining to be action. Complaining about how other careers make more money with ostensibly less risk is not helping. It's just annoying. Talking abomedicine ut how it's not worth getting a degree when employers don't require it just makes the collective community sound like a bunch fools. How do you think nursing got to the point where they are today? Or a whole multitude of other professions for that matter...

Meanwhile, those that believe EMS makes an appropriate amount of money given the state of the industry can defend their argument with logic and reason. Coincidentally, these people are often EMS leaders. Coincidence? Recently my boss (who is an incredible leader) and I had a conversation where he flatly told me that my job is comparable to that of a UPS driver so long as my partner is a paramedic driver. In fact, a UPS driver may be better qualified to do my own job. This is why I make 11 dollars an hour. He is absolutely correct. I don't plan to be an EMT for much longer.

But more importantly, I don't plan to be a line paramedic forever either. So many people in EMS are just there. They are not motivated to move themselves forward professionally, and they complain that they aren't paid enough.

Yes nursing go to the point that degree is needed because medicine improved dramatically and their skills became more and more. Without dramatic increase in technology, that is not likely to happen to EMS that it will takes years of education to be able to work on ambulance. I never say never but i am not seeing that happening in the near future.

 

[Tigger]

We already have a skillset that is deserving of a degree. I realize that's not motivation for most providers (see: "we've always done it this way"), but if EMS wants a seat at the adults table, a four year degree is needed.

 

[gonefishing]

We already have a skillset that is deserving of a degree. I realize that's not motivation for most providers (see: "we've always done it this way"), but if EMS wants a seat at the adults table, a four year degree is needed.

For medics yes, emt atleast a 2 year.

 

[Angel]

unions dying?! no they arent, the california nurses union is constantly striking against something, and CA has the highest paid nurses (that I know of)
and associates means people have to be able to pass basic math and english before licensing, no more of that functional illiteracy crap.
Personally id like to do away with all EMTs and make it AEMT level with an associates, and Paramedics more like CCT medics with a BS requirement.
Hopefully it happens before I die

 

[SandpitMedic]

Paramedic core curriculum should be at the baseline of a current CCT medic with an AAS/AS PREREQ (see below.) In that world we would make more and have expanded scopes. It should have the option of a 4 year degree as it does now. What is the difference between an ASN & a BSN? Mostly, it is the ability to move up the management chain or to an advanced specialty. There isn't much difference in pay/skill. We should play ball with that... ASP AND BSP. Associate of Science Paramedic and Bachelor of Science Paramedic.

EMT basics should be what they are now, a certificate program, but not allowed in the 911 system. They should do IFT and events only. That is how Las Vegas runs. It is intermediate/advanced & medic or dual medic. EMT advanced should be a two year AAS/AS with EMT cert prereq.
Military medics should be granted NREMT AND easily able to transition to Advanced EMT upon discharge BUT also have to complete the general Ed and a transition course, GI Bill in hand.

With just those simple steps it would immensely thin the herd. Supply goes down, education goes up, standing in the medical community goes up, wages increase, and @looker goes out of business... It's a win, win, win all the way around.

THIS would require a total overhaul of the system. Implementation would take 3-4 years. Those already certified would have that time to go get their general Ed and AAS/AS and CCT. Of course, student tax credits should apply.

Who makes that call? The only way to do this would be to have te folks who would make the most money off of it lobby for such change. $ is a motivator, desire is not. NREMT, NAEMT, Paramedic schools/colleges, health districts. AND US.. Folks who stand to gain from such a change. Be mindful of the lazy and the burnt, for they have no desire to do more work. Be wary of the fire guys who ONLY do this to go to fire, for they want to do the least in EMS to get to their endgame of the FD. We wouldn't have every schmuck becoming a medic for that purpose anymore, and maybe these departments would go ILS.

Instead of *****ing about the economics, let's discuss how to start this change.... Or other ideas on a systemic scale (not an individual "I'm going to college level") Who do we contact first?

Ready? Set? GO!

 

[Angel]

@SandpitMedic, I wish I knew but am open for ideas

 

[RocketMedic]

Paramedic core curriculum should be at the baseline of a current CCT medic with an AAS/AS PREREQ (see below.) In that world we would make more and have expanded scopes. It should have the option of a 4 year degree as it does now. What is the difference between an ASN & a BSN? Mostly, it is the ability to move up the management chain or to an advanced specialty. There isn't much difference in pay/skill. We should play ball with that... ASP AND BSP. Associate of Science Paramedic and Bachelor of Science Paramedic.

EMT basics should be what they are now, a certificate program, but not allowed in the 911 system. They should do IFT and events only. That is how Las Vegas runs. It is intermediate/advanced & medic or dual medic. EMT advanced should be a two year AAS/AS with EMT cert prereq.
Military medics should be granted NREMT AND easily able to transition to Advanced EMT upon discharge BUT also have to complete the general Ed and a transition course, GI Bill in hand.

With just those simple steps it would immensely thin the herd. Supply goes down, education goes up, standing in the medical community goes up, wages increase, and @looker goes out of business... It's a win, win, win all the way around.

THIS would require a total overhaul of the system. Implementation would take 3-4 years. Those already certified would have that time to go get their general Ed and AAS/AS and CCT. Of course, student tax credits should apply.

Who makes that call? The only way to do this would be to have te folks who would make the most money off of it lobby for such change. $ is a motivator, desire is not. NREMT, NAEMT, Paramedic schools/colleges, health districts. AND US.. Folks who stand to gain from such a change. Be mindful of the lazy and the burnt, for they have no desire to do more work. Be wary of the fire guys who ONLY do this to go to fire, for they want to do the least in EMS to get to their endgame of the FD. We wouldn't have every schmuck becoming a medic for that purpose anymore, and maybe these departments would go ILS.

Instead of *****ing about the economics, let's discuss how to start this change.... Or other ideas on a systemic scale (not an individual "I'm going to college level") Who do we contact first?

Ready? Set? GO!

Why?

We have yet to even prove our value as ALS providers in the current model. What changes do you propose we make to actual operations? Everyone's a CCP with an RN-level scope of the body, knows sort-of how to run a ventilator and how to do stuff....what really changes? Are we suddenly going to get treat-and-release powers, scripts and a sweet "auxiliary doctor" shirt?

Your ideas have merit, but need justification. Why?

Amateurs discuss tactics. Novices strategy. Experts discuss logistics.

Also, if you seek to destroy or divorce IFT from 911, you're crippling the "school" debate instantly. 911 is easy and can literally be done to an acceptable standard with a high-school education and a first-aid course and a few inservice days. Good medical care is a different squirrel and can be found anywhere.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Change starts with an idea. There is nothing more powerful than an idea.

Why? Because it is a logical place to start. My apologies for not clarifying... Yes divorce BLS/gurney van/psych/ILS/wheelchair IFT transfers from the 911 system. ALS/CCT IFT is a logistically sound skill and service for these providers to keep up with and are not as taxing or as common as the aforementioned group.

EMS is in its current state because it is relatively new, and the ******* step child of the fire service. We need to change and become our own.

I don't want to hear why you think it shouldn't be done any more than you don't want to hear why we SHOULD get a raise. I want to talk solutions and ideas... Progress.

 

[RocketMedic]

911 isn't profitable, or even sustainable in any context. It's those low-acuity (paid) tasks that pay the bills. Not defending running them, but a systematic lockout of those would literally strangle the 911 agencies that are not heavily subsidized by their communities

 

[NomadicMedic]

Why isn't 911 supported by tax dollars/levy, the same way fire, police and city services are?

Oh wait, in third service communities, they are. Sussex County DE has an ALS service that costs around 13 million dollars a year, and doesn't bill.

 

[RocketMedic]

I think the answer is a lack of public interest

 

[NomadicMedic]

I think the answer is a lack of public interest

Then you get what you deserve.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Well the public will never care. Until they have the unfortunate opportunity to meet us.

That's what we're talking about here. Making this thing it's own. Changing it.

 

[NomadicMedic]

None of this is new.

Ever hear of EMS 2.0?

http://www.ambulancedriverfiles.com/ems-2-0/

 

[SandpitMedic]

Great. I'm not seeking claim as the first one to think of it. Just trying to collectively do it.

 

[DrParasite]

How do you think nursing got to the point where they are today? Or a whole multitude of other professions for that matter...

well, to start off with, many nurses are unionized. this often helps lead to higher wages. The other way, in it's most simplest terms, is that many nurses refuse to work for peanuts. Meaning, if you are willing to work for 10/hr, why should an employer pay you any more? That is where the union comes into play; the staff as a whole (by way of the union) agree as a collective unit not to accept or work for a wage lower than they feel is appropriate. And then as a whole, they negotiate with management for better benefits

Why isn't 911 supported by tax dollars/levy, the same way fire, police and city services are?

Oh wait, in third service communities, they are. Sussex County DE has an ALS service that costs around 13 million dollars a year, and doesn't bill.

is that entirely true? A quick look about Sussex County DE's ALS system reveals that it is a flycar system; so in addition to the 8 non-transport units, you have 21 BLS ambulance services also serving the population. what is the cost to fund and operate the 21 BLS agencies? Where does that money come from?

But I do agree, 911 should be supported 100% by tax dollars.

You want to know how to raise paramedic wages? More paramedics need to learn about business, and stop focusing on finding the easiest and quickest way to get a paramedic cert. Supply and demand is how you changes wages. If your agency has 20 paramedic openings, and no new applicants will accept the rate being offered, management will need to change something to convince employees to accept the job (such as raising wages).

More managers need to get masters degrees in business and public administration, and be able to show a positive return on their tax dollars investment. The days of the head of the agency only having a HS diploma are over; even a bachelors degree is insufficient for a large EMS agency. Get a masters, and learn how to actually run a successful business, not just do things like we have always done them.

Oh, and take steps to better yourself; if your an EMT, go to medic school. if your a medic, go to CCEMTP school, or flight medic cert. Find something that will make you more valuable than every other provider, and show a way it will benefit you in the job, and why your employer should compensate you for your increased education. Sitting on your *** *****ing about things never solved anything

 

[looker]

Paramedic core curriculum should be at the baseline of a current CCT medic with an AAS/AS PREREQ (see below.) In that world we would make more and have expanded scopes. It should have the option of a 4 year degree as it does now. What is the difference between an ASN & a BSN? Mostly, it is the ability to move up the management chain or to an advanced specialty. There isn't much difference in pay/skill. We should play ball with that... ASP AND BSP. Associate of Science Paramedic and Bachelor of Science Paramedic.

EMT basics should be what they are now, a certificate program, but not allowed in the 911 system. They should do IFT and events only. That is how Las Vegas runs. It is intermediate/advanced & medic or dual medic. EMT advanced should be a two year AAS/AS with EMT cert prereq.
Military medics should be granted NREMT AND easily able to transition to Advanced EMT upon discharge BUT also have to complete the general Ed and a transition course, GI Bill in hand.

With just those simple steps it would immensely thin the herd. Supply goes down, education goes up, standing in the medical community goes up, wages increase, and @looker goes out of business... It's a win, win, win all the way around.

THIS would require a total overhaul of the system. Implementation would take 3-4 years. Those already certified would have that time to go get their general Ed and AAS/AS and CCT. Of course, student tax credits should apply.

Who makes that call? The only way to do this would be to have te folks who would make the most money off of it lobby for such change. $ is a motivator, desire is not. NREMT, NAEMT, Paramedic schools/colleges, health districts. AND US.. Folks who stand to gain from such a change. Be mindful of the lazy and the burnt, for they have no desire to do more work. Be wary of the fire guys who ONLY do this to go to fire, for they want to do the least in EMS to get to their endgame of the FD. We wouldn't have every schmuck becoming a medic for that purpose anymore, and maybe these departments would go ILS.

Instead of *****ing about the economics, let's discuss how to start this change.... Or other ideas on a systemic scale (not an individual "I'm going to college level") Who do we contact first?

Ready? Set? GO!

Do you realize that if you separate 911 from IFT, no one going to do 911. In most cases 911 is breakeven or even a loss . IFT is where the money is and you have to follow the money to stay in business.

 

[Mufasa556]

Do you realize that if you separate 911 from IFT, no one going to do 911. In most cases 911 is breakeven or even a loss . IFT is where the money is and you have to follow the money to stay in business.

From employees to management, I've always heard this. "There's no money in 911. The real bread and butter is IFT." Then why do all the mad money making IFT companies have the worst most blown out equipment and the barely breaking even 911 companies have the better equipment?

Vegas has separated 911 from IFT and it seems to work just fine. As a basic If you want to work a 911 car in Vegas, you need to do your time on a event shift or IFT car before you get certified as an EMT-Intermediate and get assigned to shifts in the 911 system.