Vol EMS question

ffemt8978

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Why not raise the value of everyone. Why not have the budget redone. Most places can afford it, grants for those who can't. If you want professional staff, pay professionally. Have higher standards. There's so much money wasted and if maybe they didn't have anyone to respond to calls they'd rethink it when the citizens realize it's a voting year.
Are you sure most places can afford it?

For sake of discussion, let's compare staffing law enforcement and staffing EMS. Some rural areas can barely afford to staff one deputy for a county 24/7. Some areas officers go on an on call status during certain times of the day based upon historical call volumes. Even some state police do the same. This leads to longer response times for those who need immediate law enforcement assistance. Wait times of 45-60 minutes are not uncommon in geographically larger counties.

Do you think a patient should have to wait 45-60 minutes for an ambulance to show up? (And I'm purposely leaving out the scenario where the patient has to wait for a second due ambulance to get staffed and respond because first due was already on a call).

Grants are an easy answer, but the money must still come from somewhere. The challenge is convincing those who don't live in BFE to chip in and pay for EMS for those that do. Not an easy sell no matter how you look at it.
 

DragonClaw

Emergency Medical Texan
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Are you sure most places can afford it?

For sake of discussion, let's compare staffing law enforcement and staffing EMS. Some rural areas can barely afford to staff one deputy for a county 24/7. Some areas officers go on an on call status during certain times of the day based upon historical call volumes. Even some state police do the same. This leads to longer response times for those who need immediate law enforcement assistance. Wait times of 45-60 minutes are not uncommon in geographically larger counties.

Do you think a patient should have to wait 45-60 minutes for an ambulance to show up? (And I'm purposely leaving out the scenario where the patient has to wait for a second due ambulance to get staffed and respond because first due was already on a call).

Grants are an easy answer, but the money must still come from somewhere. The challenge is convincing those who don't live in BFE to chip in and pay for EMS for those that do. Not an easy sell no matter how you look at it.
It's not an easy sell so we sellout and then complain when nobody recognizes us people who have to work and eat and that because we volunteer (some), it must be easy and cheap.

You have to put your foot down eventually and no time like the present. Nothing is going to change until we demand it. And giving in with "Guys we tried but they won't pay us so let's continue to proliferate expectations of free labor and mistreatment. Oh well. Maybe next pandemic they'll care."
 

ffemt8978

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It's not an easy sell so we sellout and then complain when nobody recognizes us people who have to work and eat and that because we volunteer (some), it must be easy and cheap.

You have to put your foot down eventually and no time like the present. Nothing is going to change until we demand it. And giving in with "Guys we tried but they won't pay us so let's continue to proliferate expectations of free labor and mistreatment. Oh well. Maybe next pandemic they'll care."
Having been on a volunteer department that tried twice to get the taxpaying voters to approve us going paid but they rejected it, I'm curious as to what you would do to convince them to change their mind.

Pointing out problems is the easy part, finding workable solutions not so much so.
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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Often, the answer does lead to "bigger government". I live in rural Maine. Every freaking little town, whether it is 400 people or 1000 people just has to have its own Fire Dept or EMS cover/often they are combined service here. Everyone wants to have their lights and badges, and then we get to the Chiefs, the ones who have been Chief for 30 years now and intend to do 30 more. No one wants to give up their fiefdom, titles, and in many cases their very rarely scrutinized expense accounts/perks/benefits.

The answer is consolidation. Regionalization of services. There are NO county based EMS providers in Maine. It is all volunteer, town based, or private. The exception being a few municipalities in the more populated areas where they have the tourism tax base or wealthy home owners. Speaking as a whole, EMS in Maine is abysmal, behind the times and underfunded. When I encounter areas like this, if you peel the onion layers enough, it often boils down to no one wishing to do what is right for all as that means giving up a lot on a personal level.

It is maddeningly frustrating because County based EMS and Fire would create jobs, distribute coverage better, be better for all with access...yet it would mean more government involvement. And in this part of the USA....holy crap man. Hard nosed GOP'rs who do not want Big Brother,yet many are on welfare and other social programs (but do not say that too loud). Bless Trump and MAGA :)
 

DragonClaw

Emergency Medical Texan
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Having been on a volunteer department that tried twice to get the taxpaying voters to approve us going paid but they rejected it, I'm curious as to what you would do to convince them to change their mind.

Pointing out problems is the easy part, finding workable solutions not so much so.
Do they rely on you? Are you essential?
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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Having been on a volunteer department that tried twice to get the taxpaying voters to approve us going paid but they rejected it, I'm curious as to what you would do to convince them to change their mind.

Pointing out problems is the easy part, finding workable solutions not so much so.
Baby step it. I am currently with a department per diem and they/we did exactly that. Went from "on call" to paid per diems to staff station. Roster is completely full with per diems, town has coverage but pays nothing in benefits, so large savings there. Started with two slots, collected data, got third approved...now almost ready to add a 4th. And that actually will suffice for a while once accomplished.
 

ffemt8978

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County based EMS may be an answer for some areas, but it still comes down to money. If a county can't afford to staff a deputy 24/7, where are they going to get the money to staff two people to run an ambulance and all the equipment necessary?
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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And again...all these towns, villages, whatever, who say they cannot afford it. Yet they always have Police, Animal Control, Pot Hole crews, and so on....
 

DesertMedic66

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Having been on a volunteer department that tried twice to get the taxpaying voters to approve us going paid but they rejected it, I'm curious as to what you would do to convince them to change their mind.

Pointing out problems is the easy part, finding workable solutions not so much so.
“Due to a lack of volunteers we are closing the local station. Your city/town now has no fire or EMS service.” I bet things would change rather quickly
 

akflightmedic

Forum Deputy Chief
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County based EMS may be an answer for some areas, but it still comes down to money. If a county can't afford to staff a deputy 24/7, where are they going to get the money to staff two people to run an ambulance and all the equipment necessary?
If there were no volunteers absorbing the hole....it would not take long for the money to be found. Hard part is getting Ricky to stop responding.
 

NomadicMedic

EMS Edumacator
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Having been on a volunteer department that tried twice to get the taxpaying voters to approve us going paid but they rejected it, I'm curious as to what you would do to convince them to change their mind.

Pointing out problems is the easy part, finding workable solutions not so much so.
stop showing up.

problem solved. Want an ambulance? Pay for it.
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
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“Due to a lack of volunteers we are closing the local station. Your city/town now has no fire or EMS service.” I bet things would change rather quickly
So you're choosing to go the route of the three nurses that refused to work because they felt they were understaffed?
 

DragonClaw

Emergency Medical Texan
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You can continue to pull the plow for experience or wait for everyone to realize that they need to eat.
 

ffemt8978

Forum Vice-Principal
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stop showing up.

problem solved. Want an ambulance? Pay for it.
They already do when they get billed for the ambulance ride. Do you seriously think they will accept being taxed for that too?
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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Yes. They've given us no other options.
Who hasn't given you any other options?

Regardless on anyone's opinion of how it effects the profession there will likely always been groups of individuals who pride themselves on being a volunteer for the community and will gladly respond to calls with no pay. It is entrenched in many rural areas as sesne of pride, duty. etc and for many it is a huge part of their identity. Those are the people you will have to convince to stop or demand for more which is a very hard sell.

Raise the minimum entry level to a bar high enough that it can not be obtained on a whim or as a after work and weekend adventure
 

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