Vol EMS question

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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Here's a good example to this topic

Study: Longer Ambulance Drives as Hospitals Close in Rural Communities
Call a helicopter...
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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It's why the Rural areas of the country are becoming the last standing Vol EMS and how long can Rural Vol EMS stand before they fold.
https://www.vbems.com/ yeah, with 46,000 calls a year, they must be super rural...
https://carsrescue.org/ another super rural agency, with 12,000+ calls a year...
https://bv9fd.com/ one of those rural areas 2 miles outside of DC... 6000 calls total for the 100% volunteer fire station, of which, 2149 are handled by the ambulance....

Maybe you should do some research outside of your own backyard, before you draw incorrect conclusions?
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Call a helicopter...
that's happens for strokes and STEMIs, and other time critical calls... but it's an expensive ride for those non-life threatening calls, where the caller requests an ambulance, and when you don't call the helicopter to transport, it ties up that ambulance so it can't respond to calls in their area, which can be more life threatening.
 

Frank frankerson ESQ

Forum Crew Member
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I've heard plenty of stories where paid EMS doesn't show up quickly, less than sober, def not properly dressed (although agreed, it's subjective), and everyone needs to commit for the call for the duration.... Let me ask you a question: if the choice is a volunteer ambulance from your home down showing up in 10 minutes, and a paid ambulance showing up in 30-45 minutes from 25 miles away (because you live in the middle of nowhere), which you you prefer?
No; when you are good at something, you don't do it for nothing. that's different than doing it for free. In the past, I have presented as Fire and EMS conferences for no pay; I spent hours researching the topic, designing the presentation, practicing, etc. and I got paid 0. and I would do it again too. I did it for name recognition, to make my agency look good, and because, quite honestly, I wanted to. I'm good at what I do. And now I do get paid, but I will likely present for free again at my state's Fire conference, and maybe even the EMS conference (haven't decided yet).

Also, I've helped out organizations, friends and colleagues, my kids school, etc, and asked for 0 pay. that's my choice. I've also provided my expertise to public safety entities, for no pay. Why? because someone asked for help. Heck, I volunteered to be the IT guy at my FD, maintaining the website, the email system, and all social media accounts. I'm good at what I do. Plus, no one else knows as much about IT as I do (we have several FFs and officers who have trouble with email......). It doesn't cheapen my work, or the IT work of our manage services provider (which I have called on the carpet several times for screwing up), but it ensure the work gets done to our satisfaction (and correctly).
apparently many of the volunteer fire departments in this nation would disagree with you... and all the auxiliary cops.... you can, and should, still have standards and rules, even if the organization is volunteer... after all, the last time you volunteered is when you submitted an application; after that, you became a non-compensated employee of the organization, and agreed to follow the rules they set for you.
Easy. I will help out my neighbor for free, but that doesn't mean I will do my job for free. Or more plainly, I will volunteer for my local EMS agency, because I want my neighbors to get the best care possible, but I should be paid for any work I provide to my employer. And for full disclosure, I haven't been a volunteer on an EMS agency since 2008... got news for you: when you are doing that person a favor, you are working as a volunteer..... if you want to be high and mighty, you are actually cheapening the work of a professional bricklayer/plumber/mechanic, and taking money out of their pocket by doing it for free.....You ever went to a hospital? you know they have volunteers helping out, right? ever picked up trash along your neighborhood? you know that there are people who get paid to do that right? Ever been driving, saw a car on the shoulder with a flat, with a blonde lady standing on the side of the road, and helped her change a tire? if so, did you ask to be paid for that service, or did you just help her and drive away?

Sorry for the extremely long post, but there is a lot of inaccurate claims made by your post, many based on urban legends and downright stereotypes. If you don't want to volunteer, that is your choice, and I won't hold it against you; but don't look down on someone who does volunteer when there is no other option, provided they hold themselves to the standards set forth by the AHJ.
Did you do alot of calls?
 

Frank frankerson ESQ

Forum Crew Member
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https://www.vbems.com/ yeah, with 46,000 calls a year, they must be super rural...
https://carsrescue.org/ another super rural agency, with 12,000+ calls a year...
https://bv9fd.com/ one of those rural areas 2 miles outside of DC... 6000 calls total for the 100% volunteer fire station, of which, 2149 are handled by the ambulance....

Maybe you should do some research outside of your own backyard, before you draw incorrect conclusions?
That aint ****
 

catherder

Forum Ride Along
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Pfft. I just quit my volly job. Today. Was at one of the agencies listed by Dr. Parasite.

I raised a safety concern about Covid. I won't get into specifics. I was smacked down pretty hard by one of the officers at my station who indicated as an aside that I was not a paid professional. Well that's awfully strange given that I have the same credential and training requirements of one, run out of generally well equipped stations with fairly new ambulances stocked with decent equipment and so on. When I was recruited, I was told that pay does not determine who is a professional. I sensed that was a sales line, but wasn't expecting such an open admission like the one I got today.

The light bulb finally clicked on. I realized that I am only adding to the continued degradation of the EMS profession by sticking around and consenting to that attitude. If you put up with that kind of nonsense and take no pay on top of it, then consider moving on. With Covid, which has such a long asymptomatic latency period, you will have a very hard time proving line of duty acquired illness and you can forget any kind of compensation from your agency or municipality. I predict that many volly agencies will be smoldering ruins in the next several years, or will have shifted to paid/mostly paid personnel.
 
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DragonClaw

Emergency Medical Texan
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I think the keyword is volunteer. Cost of living goes up. Taxes of go up. Time is money. And most vollies have regular jobs and when it comes down to it, where do you put your time when you need to put food on the table, especially for a family.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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Pfft. I just quit my volly job. Today. Was at one of the agencies listed by Dr. Parasite.
and I am sure they are going to miss you greatly. Especially since they recruited you to join their agency.

You raised a safety concern, and your management responded. As happens in healthcare, if you don't like the answers provided, you are free to leave at any time, as was demonstrated by a few nurses. I am sure there is another side of the story, but that's neither here nor there.

Out of curiosity, were you an EMT or paramedic, and what is your full time job? and how long were you with said volunteer agency?
 
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catherder

Forum Ride Along
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and I am sure they are going to miss you greatly.
About as much as I will miss them. It was a good learning experience, but my safety and my family's safety comes first. I don't take too kindly to anyone or anything that unnecessarily interferes with that.

You raised a safety concern, and your management responded. As happens in healthcare, if you don't like the answers provided, you are free to leave at any time, as was demonstrated by a few nurses. I am sure there is another side of the story, but that's neither here nor there.
Yeah, that's what I just did. I left. Didn't you read my post?

Out of curiosity, were you an EMT or paramedic, and what is your full time job? and how long were you with said volunteer agency?
Just a run o'the mill, dime-a-dozen basic. The rest is, as they say, "Nunya".
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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About as much as I will miss them. It was a good learning experience, but my safety and my family's safety comes first. I don't take too kindly to anyone or anything that unnecessarily interferes with that.

Yeah, that's what I just did. I left. Didn't you read my post?

Just a run o'the mill, dime-a-dozen basic. The rest is, as they say, "Nunya".
That's cool... I'm sure you won't be missed. I doubt you were "recruited" esp if you are a " a run o'the mill, dime-a-dozen basic." more likely you applied they told you about their agency, and you signed up.... and the moment you were told that you were wrong, or that you weren't as important as you felt you were, you decided to quit. and if you read some of the comment in that thread about the nurses, you will note that comments about those who quit were mostly negative.....

Maybe you were right, maybe you were wrong. Don't know, don't really care to be honest. you quit, which is your prerogative. it has nothing to do with being paid or volunteer (as your comment said), because you can quit at any time. I'm betting there are others who are still doing the job, and if you don't want to be there, then there is no reason for them to keep you. I will also say that management/officers are there for a reason, and they are likely more qualified for their positions that you are. But you're right, you might know more than everyone else.
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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Taking it personal bro? Damn.

A concern was raised and instead of handling it they tried to patronize and mind-trick them into “you’re a professional volunteer” and so they dipped. Good.

I’m on team, “stand up for yourself.” Also on team “EMS should never have volunteers.”
 

NomadicMedic

EMS Edumacator
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It's pretty unpopular in my neck of the woods, but I also believe the time for volunteer emergency services is over.

Volunteer for events? Sure. Volunteer for long, protracted search and rescue events? You betcha. Volunteer for special duties? Absolutely.

But using volunteers to assure life safety is unsustainable.
 

ffemt8978

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Correct. I did a fair amount for freelance work in my previous life. It was NEVER free.

The minute you give it away, you've established it's lack of value.
So how would you provide EMS to low population, low call volume areas where it is not cost effective to staff paid EMS?
 

VFlutter

Flight Nurse
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So how would you provide EMS to low population, low call volume areas where it is not cost effective to staff paid EMS?
I think we need to separate EMR/EMT from Paramedic in the discussion. With EMR/EMT with a low entry level and cost/time to obtain it may be reasonable as a volunteer service to the community. Paramedic level as a volunteer may very well detract from the value of the profession.
 

DragonClaw

Emergency Medical Texan
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I think we need to separate EMR/EMT from Paramedic in the discussion. With EMR/EMT with a low entry level and cost/time to obtain it may be reasonable as a volunteer service to the community. Paramedic level as a volunteer may very well detract from the value of the profession.
Why not raise the value of everyone. Why not have the budget redone. Most places can afford it, grants for those who can't. If you want professional staff, pay professionally. Have higher standards. There's so much money wasted and if maybe they didn't have anyone to respond to calls they'd rethink it when the citizens realize it's a voting year.
 

SandpitMedic

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I like the way this thread went!
 

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