the 100% directionless thread

[lightsandsirens5]

So I may wind up having to testify in court next week about an alleged murder call we ran 2 years ago.

Any tips or advice on what it's like? This is a first for me.

You too, eh? I'm possibly going to have to do the same.

 

[NYMedic828]

Based on fellow medics that took excelsior most that almost passed the practices ended up with a B on real exam. Don't let the whiny cry babies convince you that you are getting a lesser education. Have met many quality nurses who went excelsior.

I'm not concerned about being considered to have a lesser education.

The way I see it, I have learned every detail if I read every page of the book. All of my friends who have taken actual courses have had their teachers tell them what they can skip and whatnot.

I'm doing the practice stuff after every chapter now. I know I will pass but the practice tests discouraged me a bit. I'm not goin to let it get in my way.

The questions they ask are things like what portion I the nephron are effected by ADH. Very specific stuff mixed in with some very general questions.

I essentially power read the book (1100 pages) in under 2 weeks. I think il just have to take my time and do it right like anything haste makes waste. It is a 6 credit class expecting to finish it in 2 weeks wasn't very realistic...

 

[VFlutter]

Don't let the whiny cry babies convince you that you are getting a lesser education. Have met many quality nurses who went excelsior.

It is nothing to do with being a "Whiny cry baby", it is in fact a lesser education. That is why many states will not endorse excelsior graduates. Most will require anywhere from 6mo-2yrs RN experience from another state before they will allow reciprocity. Many NP programs will not accept their grads either. Nothing against excelsior students or grads but the program does have a lot of disadvantages over a traditional program. That does not mean that some of the grads are not great nurses.

Cramming information for a self study online A&P class is in no way equal to taking two semesters of college anatomy and physiology with two separate labs.

For a lot of people Excelsior is the best or only option for going back to school as I am not trying to discourage furthering your education but you can't argue that it is equal to traditional school and without serious disadvantages.

 

[Achilles]

Pretty sure I have made a tragic mistake in going the excelsior online college route.

I just did my second practice test (2/2) for A&P 1/2 and it was literally one of the hardest tests I ever took.

I read the entire 1200 page textbook and study guides and only got a 68/100. (need minimum 70% on the real test)

The questions they ask are completely unrealistic for someone to remember in any desirable time frame. I guess I just have to study some more and hope I make that extra 2 points...


There goes $1600 if I take the real test and fail... I don't mind passing with a C but I preferred to get at least a B in sciences...



May as well just attend actual school...

Get off this site and go study!

 

[Veneficus]

So I may wind up having to testify in court next week about an alleged murder call we ran 2 years ago.

Any tips or advice on what it's like? This is a first for me.

Reread the run report.

I was only ever expected to testify in a DUI case. When all of the prosecution witnesses showed up to court, the defendant plea bargained and we never even went in the court room.

Since it is not you being tried, just stick with telling them what you remember, don't make stuff up and don't come off as arrogant.

 

[TransportJockey]

Got off a hellacious 48 hour shift this morning... doing homework and getting packed for my trip to Omaha, NE for my critical care practical sessions. Should be fun

 

[medic417]

It is nothing to do with being a "Whiny cry baby", it is in fact a lesser education. T

Really? Funny when I see RN on the name tag I never see a distinction made.

Honestly most that finish which many don't end up being better imho than most traditional school trained nurses.

 

[medic417]

Reread the run report.

I was only ever expected to testify in a DUI case. When all of the prosecution witnesses showed up to court, the defendant plea bargained and we never even went in the court room.

Since it is not you being tried, just stick with telling them what you remember, don't make stuff up and don't come off as arrogant.

Actually don't rely on memory they will tear you a new one. Rely on what is written. When asked question answer based on the documentation this was what occurred.

 

[VFlutter]

Really? Funny when I see RN on the name tag I never see a distinction made.

Honestly most that finish which many don't end up being better imho than most traditional school trained nurses.

I never said they were were not RNs but there is a distinction made by many sates' BON and college admission departments.

 

[Jambi]

It is nothing to do with being a "Whiny cry baby", it is in fact a lesser education.

I'm all for making cutting to-the-point statements as I have little patience for peoples feelings, but the information has to be correct. What you have written here is a statement of opinion. If you have managed to stumble upon on body of information supporting your claim I'd be happy to consider it, but your statement has no merit in light of the large amount of data disproving the efficacy of traditional lecture-based education. This is even further compounded by the fact that such models are often applied to adult learners which themselves have unique requirements for education to be efficient and effective.

To be fair though I merits being said that lecture becomes more effective as general intelligence improves, and as education level increases. Traditional lecture is most effective at graduate levels of education.

self-paced, non-traditional, or distance education is not a lesser education, it's just a different method of delivery. And just as every educational model or technique is not effective for everyone, such distance models are not effective for everyone. This is where the singular failing of such programs come into play: They fail to screen adequately to ensure the person applying is well-suited for their particular brand of content delivery.

Look at medical schools where the dominant method of learning is self-directed based upon provided objectives. Many medical schools do not have mandatory attendance, and many choose to remain away from the lecture all and learn on his or her own. Is that lesser education?

That is why many states will not endorse excelsior graduates. Most will require anywhere from 6mo-2yrs RN experience from another state before they will allow reciprocity.

In the words of Dwight Schrute: False

14 states require additional experience or take exception with Excelsior Grads.
Out of these, only 1, California, as a general rule will not accept Excelsior Grads, but there are exceptions made. All other require between 400 and 2000 hours of experience. Only Illinois requires 2 years of experience.

30 seconds of effort would have avoided such a drastic misstatement...but I still love you!

Many NP programs will not accept their grads either.

which ones? I know a couple of Excelsior grads that have gone to NP school and they've not had a problem. With such a wide variability is NP educational standards, I doubt anyone would have trouble finding somewhere to go.

Nothing against excelsior students or grads but the program does have a lot of disadvantages over a traditional program.

What disadvantages would those be? The ones that come to mind is the lack of structure clinical and lab experience, and the general lack of personal networking.

...but you can't argue that it is equal to traditional school and without serious disadvantages.

I would argue the opposite simply based on the fact that many that choose non-traditional methods of education typically score higher in general knowledge retention because of motivational factors. The non-trad student understands very well what is on the line. such a person has generally gone through a rather complex decision making process as well, which is how he or she got into that spot in the first place.

 

[Jambi]

Also, had a patient the other day with the first name Ky...yes that was the entire first name.

At first I was all: :blink:

Then I was all: :rofl:

At the end I was: :beerchug:

 

[NYMedic828]

Also, had a patient the other day with the first name Ky...yes that was the entire first name.

At first I was all: :blink:

Then I was all: :rofl:

At the end I was: :beerchug:

Last name jelly?

 

[VFlutter]

I'm all for making cutting to-the-point statements as I have little patience for peoples feelings, but the information has to be correct. What you have written here is a statement of opinion. If you have managed to stumble upon on body of information supporting your claim I'd be happy to consider it, but your statement has no merit in light of the large amount of data disproving the efficacy of traditional lecture-based education. This is even further compounded by the fact that such models are often applied to adult learners which themselves have unique requirements for education to be efficient and effective.

I will type on a more detailed response later when I am in a real computer but for now I will admit that my post was more opinion that fact.

I have tried to find to find excelsior's NCLEX pass rates and attrition rates but I can not find anything official. I have seem claims as low as 80 and high as 99% but excelsior's statement on their website is "Excelsior College nursing graduates pass the NCLEX at a rate equal to or greater than the average of all nursing schools nationwide". They do not mention specific numbers. I bet if they had a 99% NCLEX pass rate they would be advertising it. My school heavily advertises our pass rates since many students use it as a deciding factor in selecting schools.


And about the NP comment...An RN I worked with was an EC grad applied to 3 different CRNA programs (I don't remember which ones) and was rejected because he fell way short on his science lab requirements. He ended up having to retake A&P as well as Micro. I am sure there are plenty of NP programs that will not care but I know some do.

 

[mycrofft]

Testifying

So I may wind up having to testify in court next week about an alleged murder call we ran 2 years ago.

Any tips or advice on what it's like? This is a first for me.

1. Dress conservatively and moderately. Might cover up any tattoos or piercings.
2. If you can, review notes. You might be allowed to bring them with you but they may be taken as evidence. However, often better to rely on memory and admit when you do not remember.
3. Oh, yeah. If you do not clearly remember, say so. Never try to fill in the gaps or anything. If the info is important enough they wil ask again from anther angle and you might remember then.
4. "Yes, no, don't remember, don't usually do that", and direct answers without offering anything extra. No mugging.
5. Bring something to occupy your time, money for parking and food. Don't be hurt or surprised if you are not called on day1,2,3,etc.
6. Make sure you finish all paperwork and see if your employer will reimburse you.

 

[Epi-do]

1. Dress conservatively and moderately. Might cover up any tattoos or piercings.
2. If you can, review notes. You might be allowed to bring them with you but they may be taken as evidence. However, often better to rely on memory and admit when you do not remember.
3. Oh, yeah. If you do not clearly remember, say so. Never try to fill in the gaps or anything. If the info is important enough they wil ask again from anther angle and you might remember then.
4. "Yes, no, don't remember, don't usually do that", and direct answers without offering anything extra. No mugging.
5. Bring something to occupy your time, money for parking and food. Don't be hurt or surprised if you are not called on day1,2,3,etc.
6. Make sure you finish all paperwork and see if your employer will reimburse you.

If you still work for the employer that you worked for when the run occurred, there is a very high likelihood you will be reimbursed for your time. Check with them prior to going to court. Some employers will require specific things of you to be reimbursed for your time. They may also expect you to wear your uniform to court.

Make sure you get a copy of your report to go over. You should be allowed to keep it with you as a reference if/when you testify. As already mentioned, give clear, concise answers and don't volunteer any extra information.

I have been subpena'd several times, have met with the prosecutor to go over testimony, and wasted many hours in the courthouse. I have never actually had to testify though. Everything has always been settled outside the courtroom.

 

[mycrofft]

The danger of using the run report is that, if otherwise your recollection is dim, you are basically testifying what the report says, when the attorney may be trying to have you testify about what you remember you did, saw, etc.
On the other-other hand, sometimes you skim over it and your memory jolts back.

 

[Epi-do]

On the other-other hand, sometimes you skim over it and your memory jolts back.

This is what I have found the report useful for. One of the cases I was supposed to testify about, I had absolutely no recollection at all about it, until I read my report. Then I was able to remember quite a bit about it. The report has most likely already been gotten and is a part of the case file, so they already know what it says. The other reason reviewing the report is helpful is if they start asking questions and then refer to it after you answer, as an attempt to either establish your credibility, or to dismiss it, it is helpful to know what it was that you did write.

 

[shfd739]

If you still work for the employer that you worked for when the run occurred, there is a very high likelihood you will be reimbursed for your time. Check with them prior to going to court. Some employers will require specific things of you to be reimbursed for your time. They may also expect you to wear your uniform to court.

Make sure you get a copy of your report to go over. You should be allowed to keep it with you as a reference if/when you testify. As already mentioned, give clear, concise answers and don't volunteer any extra information.

I have been subpena'd several times, have met with the prosecutor to go over testimony, and wasted many hours in the courthouse. I have never actually had to testify though. Everything has always been settled outside the courtroom.

Met with the ADA this morning and got to read over my report. it was pretty thorough and well documented. And I remember the call pretty well.

Hopefully the person takes a plea and it stays out of court. I dont see court going their way.

If we do go to court Ive got a class A uniform ready.

 

[JPINFV]

Look at medical schools where the dominant method of learning is self-directed based upon provided objectives. Many medical schools do not have mandatory attendance, and many choose to remain away from the lecture all and learn on his or her own. Is that lesser education?

The catch, however, is look at the type of people who make it into medical school as well as how the entire system is set up in regards to residencies. At the 1st and 2nd year of medical school, we're still working towards another checkpoint where our academic record means something besides pass/fail (i.e. licensure). That's the only big issue about extrapolating from medical school learning styles to other schools.

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

A good thing to remember here is just because somebody chooses to go through the Excelsior program does not mean they didnt take 'real' A/P micro, chemistry, and physio all 5 unit courses with full labs along with every other RN prerequisite course like every otherr traditional RN. It may simply means that the schedule may have been better suited then a traditional college program. Every Excelsior grad i know completed every california rn prerequisite course alomg with traditional rn students before going to excelsior because of scheduling and other life issues