Self-Defense and EMS

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Cory said:
Medical professionals shouldn't carry guns. You're in the business of saving lives, not taking them.
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in a perfect world where every scene was safe the yes that might be true, then again if the world were perfect there would be no need for ems or law enforcement for that matter. regardless, i think it's usually unwise to take an all or nothing approach to these kinds of things. there are a lot of places where it might really be smart to have ems carry guns.

Cory said:
9/10 times, pulling a gun on an already hostile person just makes them kill you quicker. If something looks dangerous, walk away and call for PD. If it is so sudden that you can't do that, chances are this is gonna be one of those 9.
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ideally we would have police backup on every dangerous call. the reality is that police take a while to get there, and the places we respond to are dangerous. to say that you are always going to be able to just walk away and call PD is assuming a lot. despite the best made plans and care taken by yourself and your partner, the streets will be unpredictable... at least that's been my experience. just my two cents.
 
This thread better not go the way that almost every previous thread about this has.

Just a word of warning.
 
I don't think that I will carry a firearm when I become an EMT after college. I will, however, wear a bullet-resistant vest every minute that I am on duty. If I am allowed to carry an ASP while on duty, I will do that as well. However, I will not carry a firearm.
 
medichopeful said:
I don't think that I will carry a firearm when I become an EMT after college. I will, however, wear a bullet-resistant vest every minute that I am on duty. If I am allowed to carry an ASP while on duty, I will do that as well. However, I will not carry a firearm.
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Wherever you do work, make sure you know the local laws and company policy regarding weapons while on duty. You may or may not have to be certified/licensed to carry that weapon...

However, body armor isn't a bad idea. It can keep you warmer in winter, provide some impact distribution if you end up bouncing around in the back of the bus, and make for a really, really uncomfortable summer... personal sauna.

If legal in your area, your choice to be armed while on duty is a personal one.. a very, very personal one. I'll leave it at that.
 
Akulahawk said:
Wherever you do work, make sure you know the local laws and company policy regarding weapons while on duty. You may or may not have to be certified/licensed to carry that weapon...

However, body armor isn't a bad idea. It can keep you warmer in winter, provide some impact distribution if you end up bouncing around in the back of the bus, and make for a really, really uncomfortable summer... personal sauna.

If legal in your area, your choice to be armed while on duty is a personal one.. a very, very personal one. I'll leave it at that.
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Don't worry. I would check the applicable laws before I did anything. I believe that where I want to work, you are allowed to carry an ASP. But I was planning on checking before I did anything.

And yes, though the body armor will get hot, it's better to get hot than be dead.
 
If your gonna carry a gun while on duty... I say put it in an ankle holster because that way people dont know your carrying it.

My idea is...better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Did anyone else watch "Mother, Jugs, and Speed"? lady pulled a shotgun on an EMT...and shot him... fortunately bill cosby pulls out his trusty .357 and shoots around her to spook her... but she uses the shotgun to commit suicide....

gotta look at pros and cons
 
seems to me if EMS was to carry firearms, we should, to some extent be cross trained as LE. there are a few departments in my are that are cross trained as LEOs, EMT/Paramedics and Fire Fighters, and there departments have all the respective apparatus's
 
I agree... or at least the basic gun safety and legal reprocussions..I mean, we as EMT and Medics know how to treat a GSW if worse comes to worse... but a few basic courses couldn't hurt ya know?
 
agreed. i was going to say that ems carrying a gun would make many situations more dangerous, but that is really circumstantial and not entirely true. i would never point a gun at anything/anyone i did not fully intend to shoot. now if a pt/perp whoever has a gun, they are more or less in control, but as soon as i draw they only have 2 choices 1. take a shot at me 2. be shot/go to jail. something to think about it. may escalate many violent situations, may stop some. be interesting to know if there are any studies on the subject
 
There are several forums on the 'net that deal pretty specifically with legal issues and firearms. There are two that I'm aware of in California that have people that do KNOW the issues. Those sites would likely know about those studies you seek... Keep in mind that they're California specific sites. I don't want to list them here without getting approval from this site to list them here. Those sites wouldn't mind...

I'm not a LEO. I have learned MUCH about this subject, mostly as it pertains to California. Other states have similar issues though, but most are more permissive in the area of CCW/Firearm law than California is.
 
Just remember that the time it takes to get your weapon from a concealed holster or locked box in the truck (yes these weapons should be secure) could be used against you. The law may now view you as the aggressor if it is perceived that you had enough time to escape and get to safety. The intent to do bodily harm to another individual may now become YOUR charge.

Also, in each state you would have to be aware where you could not carry your weapon when you are on a call such as in a church or public arena. Unless you are acting as a LEO, you would be breaking the law. If you kept your weapon in a truck to where it could be found by a patient or passengers, you could be responsible for any actions committed by them in an unlawful act which could be harming/killing your partner or a bystander. Carrying a weapon on a public/commercial vehicle a very different set of responsibilities. As well, just like LEOs who know they must protect that weapon during carry, you would also have to have the same training. If word gets out that you are carrying, you become an easy mark and a target. Your role in the eye of the public may also change as they would no longer see you as a health care provider but now as a law enforcement officer and someone's authority they can ch allege or withhold trust and information from. Not everyone trusts LEOs and some people even hate them but most do allow health care workers into their space.

It is still best to present yourself as a health care professional, become very aware of your surroundings or scene safety and avoid any situations that you do not feel safe in until LEO backup arrives. Your purpose it to provide health care services and not go in armed with the intent of using your weapon. That also would be a question asked of you in court. "Did you not know the scene was safe but yet you still went in AND while carrying a weapon for the purpose of using?" It doesn't matter what you actually thought at the time but now that you carry a weapon, you have now established the fact you would use it which is the purpose of a conceal weapon.
 
One more little point, as per most state statutes for a concealed weapon permit, hospitals are no carry zones for weapons except for LEOs. Regardless of who you work for, if your weapon is detected by the hospital's metal detectors, you will be detained, questioned and possibly charged as any other person who breaks the law. Since you do enter hospitals often, you might keep your gun in a locked box and must retrieve it from that box each time you believe to be in trouble. If that is the position you have established with your weapon, you have already had enough time to think the situation through and get away from trouble or call backup from the PD.
 
DV_EMT said:
If your gonna carry a gun while on duty... I say put it in an ankle holster because that way people dont know your carrying it.

My idea is...better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Did anyone else watch "Mother, Jugs, and Speed"? lady pulled a shotgun on an EMT...and shot him... fortunately bill cosby pulls out his trusty .357 and shoots around her to spook her... but she uses the shotgun to commit suicide....

gotta look at pros and cons
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Problem with the ankle holster is that if you are bending down or kneeling, it may become visible. And it may be easy for someone to grab if you are kneeling next to them while they are supine or prone.
 
VentMedic said:
Your role in the eye of the public may also change as they would no longer see you as a health care provider but now as a law enforcement officer and someone's authority they can ch allege or withhold trust and information from. Not everyone trusts LEOs and some people even hate them but most do allow health care workers into their space.
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I was thinking something similar to this, but you beat me to it :sad:
 
medic417 said:
Call me dumb again and you can go.......................

I would have more chance fighting back than just letting them shoot me. So I'll take a 1 % chance over a 0% any day.

Not trying to change your opinion because many in EMS have no business carrying guns and sadly many of those have no business even being in EMS.
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However, who is to say they were going to shoot you in the first place? People DO use guns to try and gain control of a situation and manipulate it to their favor with no intent to shoot. A mugger can hold you at gun point without shooting, someone robbing the local McDonalds can use a gun but not shoot.. as long as your cooperate with them. Making an agressive move like going for YOUR gun just sealed your fate, you're going to spook them into shooting. Going for your gun would escalate the situation, where you might've gotten out with no one getting hurt, you now have a dead or injured paramedic.

I also can't help but thinking that some people would get a bravery boost from knowing they have a gun on them and go into situations they regularly wouldn't without the 5-0.
 
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Sasha said:
However, who is to say they were going to shoot you in the first place? People DO use guns to try and gain control of a situation and manipulate it to their favor with no intent to shoot. A mugger can hold you at gun point without shooting, someone robbing the local McDonalds can use a gun but not shoot.. as long as your cooperate with them. Making an agressive move like going for YOUR gun just sealed your fate, you're going to spook them into shooting. Going for your gun would escalate the situation, where you might've gotten out with no one getting hurt, you now have a dead or injured paramedic.
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Be quite rookie.:P

I would rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.
 
medic417 said:
Be quite rookie.:P

I would rather have a fighting chance than no chance at all.
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I would rather avoid escalating the situation!
 
Like always, name calling and childish tactical fantasies.

I think EMTLIFE has enough thread material about gunslinging and ought to institute it's own gun control.
 
Sasha said:
However, who is to say they were going to shoot you in the first place? People DO use guns to try and gain control of a situation and manipulate it to their favor with no intent to shoot. A mugger can hold you at gun point without shooting, someone robbing the local McDonalds can use a gun but not shoot.
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50/50 chance.... pull the trigger.... or don't. Frankly, I think any 5150 with a gun has a higher chance of pulling the trigger. Lets face it.... Mentally unstable with a weapon. I say you have the right as EMS to have a gun to defend yourself. If police arent on scene because the "nature of the call" was something different than what was expected... you should have the right to protect yourself. Kevlar and all that is great... but a shot to the femoral/neck/ or head and your screwed (thank god for a partner). I'd rather not risk the chance that, "they might not shoot"... cause what they can do is erratic and usually illogical.
 
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