Completely different situation.
talk about bending things to support your stance... no armed FF (and there are likely more than you would like to believe) have killed people when their lives have not been threatened. in fact, with all the CCW people in the US, you would think the bodies would be lining the streets with all the guns we have. Oh, and in case you forgot, arming EMTs was previous discussed on these forums, and this is what I said then, and it still applied today:
She is absolutely a traffic violator, and lethal force was threatened, not used, against her. Not saying he was right, but maybe you should tone down the fear-mongering and hyperbole, because the facts don't support any of what you are saying.
Cops drawing their firearms on cars driving towards them are almost always scenarios where the driver was already detained and then turning their vehicle towards the officer, turning a traffic violation into felony fleeing and felonious assault. The officer can generally deduce that the driver is purposely driving towards them with the intent of causing harm to the cop. The woman here was being an impatient *******, but clearly wasn't intentionally driving towards the firefighters in an attempt to hit them, as evidenced by the fact that they walked themselves into the path of the vehicle.
Lethal force was threatened in a non lethal force scenario, which is a prime example of it is inappropriate to consider arming EMTs in their current level of training. This guy was in WAY over his head and was COMPLETELY wrong. He made several critical errors that can easily be picked apart by even the most inexperienced police officer.
I NEVER said he was correct in his actions. NOT ONCE. I am not defending his actions, nor do I think firearms should be used in this manner. And I do agree that it was likely an unlawful detainment (never said otherwise). Had I been in his position, I would not have drawn and aimed a firearm at her.
This is really the issue here for me. So many people on the FB and other outlets are all "he was well with in his rights to shoot her to protect his crew." Really, are we so callous that we think taking someone's life in such a situation is an acceptable option?
Your inability to see the facts are amusing.. You don’t know a thing about CCW or training, yet you pontificate from your throne of “I’m right every time I post on anything”. So..tell me how many years you have on as a cop? What academies have you attended? How many hours of Advanced Officer Training do you have?
www.wwaytv3.com
Your issue is with the second amendment of the constitution… not me.
^This, 100%
Just so I understand.... you bring a weapon to every encounter when you are off duty, when you are in close quarters (such as when you are driving your car). you are all for it, and have no issues with people doing it, but those risks you lists don't apply when you are not on the ambulance?
no one is saying every EMT and firefighter should be carrying firearms. no one is advocating for "here is your EMT card, here is your stethoscope, here is your glock." No one is saying we should be doing the job of the police. This case might be an example of an inappropriate drawing on a weapon, but just because a small minority does something stupid doesn't mean we should punish everyone (otherwise, we would take away all firearms from cops, because a few idiots have done stupid things, which, I hope we can all agree, is a foolish idea).
No one is disagreeing with you. He did something wrong, and now he will deal with whatever consequences follow.... which is how it works for everyone, both on duty and off.
To play devils advocate, when I am off duty I am never inside a confined space such as a car with someone I don’t know. I’m also not routinely going into gun free zones while I am off duty such as school zones, hospitals, jails, prisons, court houses, and other federal buildings..
I work in an urban area with a high per capita violent crime rate. I’ve seen my share of shootings, stabbings, and assaults. I’ve been on hot scenes. I’ve been in scenes when shots have been fired. I’ve been on scenes when you can still smell gunpowder in the air. I’ve been in scenes were all of a sudden all the cops had their guns out, and I’ve wrestled violent people to the ground.
Of course there are situations where I'm off duty where some of the same situations apply. However, off-duty I have no duty to respond, don't deal with sick people who may be altered, don't stop on the side of the highway, don't go into random houses, and don't interact with random people in confined spaces for any length of time and if for some reason I'm uncomfortable, or the person I'm talking to starts acting strange, I can just leave. The situations I would find myself in-duty and off-duty are completely different and if they're not, I made some pretty stupid mistakes to get there.
I'm not saying that either. What I am saying is that if start allowing EMS to carry firearms, people are going to make stupid decisions, as is demonstrated by this situation. We have people in this field who get irrationally offended when they are called an "ambulance driver," do you really think that allowing these people to carry a weapon on-duty is a good idea? I also never stated that we should be doing the job of the police, so I'm not sure where that statement comes from. I'm simply saying that if people trained in lethal force, laws, etc (the police) are still screwing things up, why would putting a gun into the hands of EMS/FD, who doesn't do any training on lethal force, laws, etc, be a good idea?
I've certainly never done anything as stupid as pointing it at someone who committed a traffic violation. Whenever I get into a situation where the potential I may need to draw my gun, I simply leave. It's not that difficult.
As should be expected.
Urban areas have a much lower LEO response time on average than rural areas. I've been on scenes where we had to stage over 45 minutes to wait for the first officer to arrive on scene, and the second officer didn't arrive for another 20 minutes. I've also been on supposedly "safe" scenes which suddenly went sideways and we were fighting with an armed patient while frantically calling for LEO assitance.
Because people make stupid choices. Completely out of line behavior, but needed nothing close to the reaction from that FF.