Your patient asks you to pray with them

My beliefs are so strong they blend with my patients beliefs so that whatever happens in the back of my rescue is a highly emotionioal, spiritual moment for both, where both patient and provider are satisfied.

It doesn't happen often, but when it does I feel the presence of god with us.

Just for the record, my definition of god is irrelevant here. It just is, and it works for everybody in their own way.
 
Wow, I do fail at the link. I swear, it worked when I posted it. The gist of it was with Fry and a priest in Futurama, when Bender was lost floating around space.

Fry: So, is there anything religion can do to help me find my friend?

Priest: Well, we could join together in prayer.

Fry: Ok, is there anything USEFUL you can do?

Priest: (*looking down sheepishly*) Um... No.
 
What I have found is though, the majority of people are very ignorant of religion and even what Christianity is. In fact, religion is just much more than Christianity.

As well, very few always to attempt to decipher on how things are reminds me of those attempting to tell me how EMS is after 150 class. Very few have ever taken a formal class in Theology or Biblical studies and or World Religion. All based upon their own anecdotal experiences and their interpretation of what the __You fill in the name __religious book said. When in fact, most very few have read Biblical text or ever had anyone really explain in what it meant at the time it was written.

For example the comment about prayer. If regarded to Christianity, again it the whole intent is not as stated.

Prayer is a dialogue between you and your higher power. That's it. An acknowledgement to of inner discussion and maybe even meditation of being able to understand or release of problems. It can take many forms and one should not (alike EMS) label... just because this is how they were taught.

R/r 911
 
What I have found is though, the majority of people are very ignorant of religion and even what Christianity is.
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I find a lot of people are very ignorant of their own religion let alone those they don't believe in. This ignorance- or rather conscientious stupidity- is a leading cause of death in a lot of the world. It also leads to a whole bunch more non-fatal misunderstandings that could be avoided simply by having a less reactionary and more "The religion is not the most important thing, how it is applied is what matters".

In fact, religion is just much more than Christianity.
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Careful Rid, you're awful close to Texas and they will lynch you for that sort of thing. We all know that in Texas there are only two kinds of people: Christians and terrorists. ;)

BTW, before anyone flames me, that was meant as a joke and I don't believe it in the slightest.
 
EMTinNEPA said:
In my eyes, prayer is a ridiculous and ego-centric concept. To those of you who pray: do you not find any type of issue with asking the creator of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE to grant you a personal favor. The idea of prayer is an extension of human ego, of the old ideas that the universe revolves around us, when the reality is that we are small and insignificant. So small and insignificant, that the creator of the universe granting us a wish would be akin to a conscious sun granting a wish to a single bacterium on the ocean floor.
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So what? If it helps people get through a tough time, so be it. Why is it necessary to say that prayer is "ridiculous"? No need to be condescending.

I rarely pray (Unitarian Universalist here), but I have no problem being around someone who is praying. At times, I have joined in when people pray, but only when I am able to do it in way that will not offend anybody. Religion is a touchy subject.

When I enter the field of EMS, I don't think I would have any problem helping somebody pray, as long as it didn't hurt the patient. I don't know if I would be able to lead a prayer, though, as it is not in my background. I would probably have to figure something out if anybody asked me to lead them in prayer.

Eric
 
Tell a Christian he is an atheist...when he is shocked and says oh no I am not...ask him why he does not believe in all the other gods known and accepted in this massive world...then tell him that you are of the same belief...only you believe in one less god than he does for the same reasons he disbelieves the others. :)
 
If the pt is non critical and the family/friends etc on scene wants to say a prayer with the pt I'm ok with it.

I've only been asked twice to pray with a patient and I side stepped the issue by smiling and saying "Let me take care of your body right now, and when we get to the hospital I'll have them call the chaplain for you, how does that sound?"

Both of them said something like "that would be nice, thank you" or whatever.

Basically, I'm a fairly strong atheist and it makes my skin crawl to pray, or even pretend to. I also feel like it's incredibly disrespectful to the person to pretend or try and fake it. Especially if they expect you to say something out loud, which I would fail at miserably. By passing the issue off to the chaplain, I know the patient is not going to be offended because I said something wrong, and they can pray with someone who at the very least believes in some sort of higher power.
 
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medichopeful said:
So what? If it helps people get through a tough time, so be it. Why is it necessary to say that prayer is "ridiculous"? No need to be condescending.
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Because there is no reason to think or believe that it even helps in a tough time. Delusional thinking will do nothing for you. Why do you think atheists, agnostics, deists, etc. get through tough times in life without praying?

Let's look at the Wizard of Oz as a freethinkers' parable. The Scarecrow desperately wants a brain, the Tin Man desperately wants a heart, the Cowardly Lion desperately wants courage, and Dorothy desperately wants a way home. So they go on a great journey to see this mythical being, which in the end turns out to be a bunch of smoke, and mirrors, and trickery. However, when they don't have to rely on a greater power to give them things they want, they look at things from a different perspective... and they realize that they had what they wanted inside of them all along.

To me, it's much more constructive and meaningful to find the will to survive and get through the rough times within yourself... it's a tribute to the power of human tenacity and will. The fact that nonbelievers, who don't pray, yet somehow still survive rough times, shows that even if God does exist, he already gave us everything we need to get by. The medium of prayer isn't needed. We have the power within us already, divine or not.
 
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EMTinNEPA said:
Because there is no reason to think or believe that it even helps in a tough time. Delusional thinking will do nothing for you. Why do you think atheists, agnostics, deists, etc. get through tough times in life without praying?

Let's look at the Wizard of Oz as a freethinkers' parable. The Scarecrow desperately wants a brain, the Tin Man desperately wants a heart, the Cowardly Lion desperately wants courage, and Dorothy desperately wants a way home. So they go on a great journey to see this mythical being, which in the end turns out to be a bunch of smoke, and mirrors, and trickery. However, when they don't have to rely on a greater power to give them things they want, they look at things from a different perspective... and they realize that they had what they wanted inside of them all along.

To me, it's much more constructive and meaningful to find the will to survive and get through the rough times within yourself... it's a tribute to the power of human tenacity and will. The fact that nonbelievers, who don't pray, yet somehow still survive rough times, shows that even if God does exist, he already gave us everything we need to get by. The medium of prayer isn't needed. We have the power within us already, divine or not.
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But, but....it is soooo much easier to attribute all the bad things to a higher power, surely it must be it's will because it could never be because of choices I made or did not make.

And then all the good things are because I am special and my one prayer was answered but I need to remain humble and again grant that to someone else and not recognize my smart decision or all my hard work; it's easier to remain humble that way and look more pious to others when retelling the tale.

On another note regarding prayer, watch football teams pray before the game...both teams are praying, hmmm someone has to lose and why should he care about this one team above others? After the game, you will hear the winning QB or coach thank god, but for some reason you never hear the losing team say "god just thought the other team was better I guess". Also you never hear the winning team say BEFORE the game...We WILL win cause god is on our side...they only have the ability to say that after knowing the outcome of the game...ironic, no?

Do not even get me started about prayer on the battlefield...come on man, you are praying to god to help you slaughter other men who believe in the same god????
 
Again a poor analogy and again misconception of what prayer is all about. One should not be praying for their purpose but rather to understand and be faithful to what His purpose. Again another myth and so what is always protrayed wrongly from ignorance of those that do not understand faith, NO where in the Christian philosophy does it not describe "bad " things do not occur or will prevent you from having them. As in again,the faith will be able to cope and handle things differently by Grace.

Prayer has never been a "wish book" even that is what percieved by many or those was never taught properly. We may ask but it should be understood "Thy will be done".

Football games should not be "prayed" for whom to win but to do os without injury and to have fun and learn sportsmanship.

R/r 911
 
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As long as it won't detract from treatment, I'm fine with praying with a patient. But if they want to know about my own religious beliefs, I'm not going to get into detail. You never know when that conversation's going to turn ugly, and that's not something I want to deal with in the back of an ambulance. If they want someone of a specific faith, I'll be glad to see what I can do about finding a chaplain...
 
I don't think either religion thread was created to bash anyone's beliefs. I guess it's too much to expect health care professionals to maintain civil and open minded during a discussion and not to take potshots at another's beliefs.
 
Ridryder911 said:
Again another myth and so what is always protrayed wrongly from ignorance of those that do not understand faith, NO where in the Christian philosophy does it not describe "bad " things do not occur or will prevent you from having them.

Football games should not be "prayed" for whom to win but to do os without injury and to have fun and learn sportsmanship.R/r 911
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How ignorant to assume I do not understand faith. I study religion more than your average weekend churchgoer because it fascinates me, most atheists are more knowledgeable in religion than those who claim to be of a certain belief or faith...and that is because we seek knowledge and we are ok with questioning everything and asking why or how. I have shelves and shelves of books on all kinds of religion, "holy" books and scores of websites dedicated to the subject because it is my hobby. I like to hear all sides and formulate my own opinions.

Having said that, I have never been in the presence of a religious leader who did not ask for things in prayer. These are the guys who went to seminary school and practice/live the faith every day. I have a couple preacher friends as well (great conversations at dinner parties), I have attended services of many denominations in many different states. I have stepped outside the box and at no time did any of these leaders subscribe to what you just wrote about Rid. You know I got respect for you but I think you are now claiming they are all ignorant cause they do indeed do on a regular basis what you said no educated person of faith would do.

As for the football games, instead of praying for no injuries, wouldn't proper training and conditioning prevent the majority of them? Wouldn't a good coach and a positive family environment bring out or educate one in proper sportsmanship? And the fun...well if you have to pray to have fun, choose another hobby.
 
Well, being "athe-gnostic"...

1. Can't hurt as long as you are still working the BVM.
2. I don't know of any religion that forbids people of other religions (or without a current one) to pray for their members, as long as it is sincere.

Me, I've bowed my head out of respect and a couple times and thought the agnostics' prayer: "Hey, if you're really there, heads up, here comes a good one".
 
mycrofft said:
1. Can't hurt as long as you are still working the BVM.
2. I don't know of any religion that forbids people of other religions (or without a current one) to pray for their members, as long as it is sincere.

Me, I've bowed my head out of respect and a couple times and thought the agnostics' prayer: "Hey, if you're really there, heads up, here comes a good one".
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Shakes head...Pascal's Wager...sigh :) :)
 
Yes, I would and I have prayed with a Pt. I have only done it once and I asked him if he wanted me to pray with him. He was freaking out so bad thought he was going to die and said yes. I prayed for healing and that if he had never excepted Jesus as his savior that he would do that in his heart before he died. Well, he did not die but was greatful for if nothing else the comfort he got knowing that I cared enough to pray with him.:)
 
Epi-do said:
Sasha's post got me thinking, especially regarding those of you who stated you are athiests, do you pray with your patient if s/he asks you to do so? What about if you are religious, but your patient appears to have vastly different beliefs than yourself? If not, what do you say to them? If they go ahead and pray without you, do respect their wish to do so, and give them a moment of silence?
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I will do it for my patient. Rarely do I get asked.
 
I agree, although I do not believe the same as you, We should all be civil. I also wanted to say that I didn't mean that just because you don't believe in God that you have no morals. Or that I am perfect because that is really almost laughable. I am the farthest thing from perfect!! I am a sinner like everyone else. It's kinda like I don't believe in abortion, but I also don't think an abotionest should be shot either. I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me lets just agree to disagree.
 
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