Shishkabob
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Your patient asks you to pray with them
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Sasha
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No, this article isn't EMS related.. But this is a good example at what I was trying to get at. Religion and prayer and such can be a powerful thing for those who believe. It enables them to stay calm in situations they may not otherwise. If prayer could help your patient remain calm during their emergency, why can't you just bow your head and play along?
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akflightmedic
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First of all, without sounding egotistical or godlike cause some may interpret it as this...I very rarely have had patients I could not calm or keep in a calm state when needed.
This is accomplished through professionalism and competence. Calmness is contagious and they pick up on our vibes; when they trust us, which is reflected by the above mentioned qualities, then they become calm.
So when the Haitian asks you to slaughter a chicken in the yard before they get in the ambulance and they need you to help, are you going to do it? When some obscure Catholic sect says he needs his medical provider to have ash on his forehead, are you going to let him smear you? Why not? It is for the patient's spiritual needs, no?
As I said, if they need prayer, there are other things I need to be doing. Besides, prayer is their personal communication with their god, I have no part of it and I will not fake it simply for the patient's benefit. You do not routinely lie to your patients do you? My actions would be me lying to the patient...
This is accomplished through professionalism and competence. Calmness is contagious and they pick up on our vibes; when they trust us, which is reflected by the above mentioned qualities, then they become calm.
So when the Haitian asks you to slaughter a chicken in the yard before they get in the ambulance and they need you to help, are you going to do it? When some obscure Catholic sect says he needs his medical provider to have ash on his forehead, are you going to let him smear you? Why not? It is for the patient's spiritual needs, no?
As I said, if they need prayer, there are other things I need to be doing. Besides, prayer is their personal communication with their god, I have no part of it and I will not fake it simply for the patient's benefit. You do not routinely lie to your patients do you? My actions would be me lying to the patient...
Sasha
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How is it lying to simply bow your head out of respect for the patient and their beliefs? Not asking you to talk to god in your head. It's a simple inclanation of your head, you're not signing yourself up to be a Christian.
And anything I could reasonably do to comfort the patient, I would. You got the ash? Smear it, I can wipe it off later.
akflightmedic
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Then I guess we agree to disagree cause to me it is wrong on a much deeper level within myself. You are asking me to compromise my inner most thoughts and belief system to accommodate a patient's wishes when simple professionalism can accomplish the same goal.
I would not ask that of you, why do you ask it of me? (rhetorical)
You would not ask one member of a certain belief to perform the action of another belief/sect/denomination, yet because one is of "no belief" you then say what is the big deal?
I would not ask that of you, why do you ask it of me? (rhetorical)
You would not ask one member of a certain belief to perform the action of another belief/sect/denomination, yet because one is of "no belief" you then say what is the big deal?
Shishkabob
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Keeping your trap shut for 30 seconds can not be equated to killing an animal. If worse comes to worst, claim health hazard (chicken blood)
Sure. Takes all of 5 seconds to take a prep pad to that thing when they're gone. Hell, after Ash Wednesday, many Christians walk around with that cross clearly shown on their head.
akflightmedic
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Where did I ever say I would not keep my trap shut as you so eloquently put it? Please re read and get back to me on that one.
Killing an animal is their religious belief as it once was for Christians and just about every other religion. So now you are telling me you will pick and choose which belief practice/ritual you will allow? So you are willing to forgo a religious practice that would benefit the patient because you do not agree to it?
Nothing will be placed on my body ever as I said previously this is their belief, not mine. I used some extreme examples but they are plausible. I would be interested in hearing what else you would allow to be done to your body all in the name of making the patient comfortable within their religious beliefs...
Shishkabob
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How is having an ash cross, a very normal Christian act, "extreme"? Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean a well established and practed act in this country is "extreme".
And as for the chicken, again... health hazard. So you're arguing doing a blanket treatment for ALL patients, even if it could be detrimental to them?
And as for the chicken, again... health hazard. So you're arguing doing a blanket treatment for ALL patients, even if it could be detrimental to them?
JonTullos
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I find it funny that so many people judge Christians as being the intolerant ones. Truth is, I've found that many non-Christians are more intolerant. If we want to pray in public or hold a ceremony in a public place then someone's liable to file a lawsuit to try and stop it. Yet, if a person of another faith wants to do the same thing and a Christian says something about it, well all of a sudden they're a bigot. Double standard much?
The point is, most Christians (I am NOT including those nuts from the Westboro Baptist Church or other similar groups in this statement - don't get me started on them) aren't as intolerant as most people make them out to be, at least not as intolerant as others seem to be toward them. If a Muslim wants to pray to Allah, that's their right and I won't fight them on it. I will choose not to participate but I will also respect their beliefs. If they want to discuss my beliefs vs. theirs, fine... but I'm not going to tell them they're a bad person or that I hate them simply because they believe differently then I do.
To get back on track, even if you don't believe the same as the patient, what's the harm in showing them respect? I'm not saying you have to pray with them or for them but at least respect their beliefs. If nothing else (I believe there's more but that's me) you're helping with their mental well being and that does matter a ton.
To each their own but at least respect the beliefs of others and don't bash them simply because they believe differently then you.
The point is, most Christians (I am NOT including those nuts from the Westboro Baptist Church or other similar groups in this statement - don't get me started on them) aren't as intolerant as most people make them out to be, at least not as intolerant as others seem to be toward them. If a Muslim wants to pray to Allah, that's their right and I won't fight them on it. I will choose not to participate but I will also respect their beliefs. If they want to discuss my beliefs vs. theirs, fine... but I'm not going to tell them they're a bad person or that I hate them simply because they believe differently then I do.
To get back on track, even if you don't believe the same as the patient, what's the harm in showing them respect? I'm not saying you have to pray with them or for them but at least respect their beliefs. If nothing else (I believe there's more but that's me) you're helping with their mental well being and that does matter a ton.
To each their own but at least respect the beliefs of others and don't bash them simply because they believe differently then you.
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akflightmedic
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And this is exactly what I have been saying in every post. They have my respect granted by my silence or enabling them to be with someone else if time or situation allows so that they may maintain their spirituality; at no time did I disrespect or forbid their actions.
Sasha
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Their is intolerance in every belief system, however Christians get the stigma of being intolerant because that is what you see. I know many very wonderful Christians, but I, personally have also met a lot of intolerant religions who try to impose their beliefs and opinions, simply because "God says homosexuality is wrong". "God says abortion is wrong" "God says it's wrong not to believe in God" "God says you're going to burn in Hell, heathen!"
It's not right, and it's not fair, but people's opinions are widely shaped by their experiences, and bad apples remain more prominently in your mind then good apples.
And why is it I often hear about Christians and their pity because of my atheism? My jewish friends don't tell me that they are sad for me because I don't believe in God, nor my Wiccan friends, nor my Buddhist friends.
Allah's just Arabic for God, generally considered to be the same one as in Christianity and Judaism. Christians in the Middle East praying in Arabic use the word too.
Shishkabob
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And we go right on back to the vegetarian vs meat eaters argument.
PS--- Christans, Jews and Sunni Muslims believe in the same exact God. The only real difference in our religions is how we view Jesus played a role.
PS--- Christans, Jews and Sunni Muslims believe in the same exact God. The only real difference in our religions is how we view Jesus played a role.
akflightmedic
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At no point did I mention the ashen cross for Lent...if you re read and comprehend you will see where I said an obscure sect (meaning may not exist or we do not know about it yet) wants to smear ash on your forehead. Please do not confuse the two and keep working on those comprehension skills as this is not the first time you have reacted without fully comprehending what you have read...(this is not picking on you, this is constructive criticism or free advice for life) whichever you choose.
Hockey
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akflightmedic
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And this would be the point of public forums, yet everyone complains...?
It is a place to share ideas, experiences and opinions...for all who have contributed, there are 50 or more who have said nothing but learned a lot.
The only pointless posts are the ones which continue to point out the obvious, which is the dead horse argument. But is it really a dead horse if someone out there is benefiting/learning or experiencing one way or another something from all this discussion which has remained quite civil for the most part?
Shishkabob
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I think you mistook what I meant by "vegetarian vs meat eater argument"...
I've gotten lectured and pitied on being the "wrong" religion by people from all angles. Atheists think I'm dumb, people who agree with me think I'm not serious enough or doing it wrong, and people from different religions think I'm misguided.
However, I have noticed that it tends to come up much sooner with Christians, while most others wait to get to know me before they start. I think it's just one of the things that comes with being in the majority--you're more likely to find people who agree with you, and less likely to be criticized.
I've noticed that tolerance is less popular with a strong religious majority, too, no matter what the religion. If you're part of an overwhelming majority, why do you need tolerance?
No, actually there's a pretty big difference, moreso between Islam and the other two you listed.
Crap, I actually helped distract the thread...
Living out in the bible belt, I have no problem being supportive of the patient and their beliefs, but I've never actually prayed for someone, prayed with them a few times though, it's not my cup of tea, but I figure when I'm working, it's generally not about me anyway.
That's a good one.
usafmedic45
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And what do you base your assessment on? Do you happen to have read the texts from all three and viewed them in the context of when they were written or are you simply basing your assessment off of a few passages from each or off of what you've heard a? I have and there is much more in common than the "big differences" you seem to believe exist. It is the perpetuation of the belief that we have more separating us as human beings- religious vs. atheist, Catholic vs. Jew, Catholic vs. Protestant, Muslim vs. Christian, etc- and the perversions of teachings by a minority for personal gain in all religions that has made religion in general one of the leading causes of traumatic suffering and death throughout history. Please do not be a part of that problem by espousing misconceptions.