Why is EMS mixed with FD?

[atropine]

You didnt comprehend the meaning of the saying at all did you?

All it means is if you are trying to perform several acts you will never be as good in anyone of those acts as if you were studying and putting all your focus in to just one.

Why do I have to be good or (Master) just one thing, why can't I do both, I mean for crying out loud our job is to get the patient to definitive care right? I don't think I need a degree to do that. I mean unless I am wrong, to me definitive care is a Dr., lab, cath lab, x-rays etc. I don't carry any of those on my rig.

 

[alphatrauma]

Why do I have to be good or (Master) just one thing, why can't I do both, I mean for crying out loud our job is to get the patient to definitive care right? I don't think I need a degree to do that. I mean unless I am wrong, to me definitive care is a Dr., lab, cath lab, x-rays etc. I don't carry any of those on my rig.

Most who lack degrees don't.

 

[firecoins]

I know people employed separtely as both firefighters with the FDNY and work at a NYC voluntary hospital as a perdiem medic. They do both quite well without difficulty.

As a medic who is not a firefighter I oppose the combined FF/Medic due to the loss of medic only jobs. I have no interest in firefighting. I want the ability to do 911 EMS without being a firefighter.

 

[46Young]

Thanks, I forgot all about that. There are some FDNY firefighters that work at local hospitals doing 911 medic work. One of my old partners is a FF and he also works per diem at NSUH Manhasset as an RN!

 

[atropine]

Most who lack degrees don't.

I am not I don't have a degree, even in the fire service you need at the very least an AAS to promote, but unless Iam wrong nobody is carrying x-ray machines or lab stations with them.

 

[46Young]

I am not I don't have a degree, even in the fire service you need at the very least an AAS to promote, but unless Iam wrong nobody is carrying x-ray machines or lab stations with them.

Medic cert gets us 12 points on a promotional exam!

 

[alphatrauma]

As a medic who is not a firefighter I oppose the combined FF/Medic due to the loss of medic only jobs. I have no interest in firefighting. I want the ability to do 911 EMS without being a firefighter.

.... Werd!

 

[ResTech]

Im with ya Firecoins... I don't agree with duel-role positions either. Even though Im told if all u want to do is ride the Medic unit someone assigned to the Medic unit would be more than happy to switch with ya....

I still think Paramedic jobs should be separate. I have my State Firefighter I cert but just not into fire suppression. Rescue work I would love though.

 

[46Young]

I know people employed separtely as both firefighters with the FDNY and work at a NYC voluntary hospital as a perdiem medic. They do both quite well without difficulty.

As a medic who is not a firefighter I oppose the combined FF/Medic due to the loss of medic only jobs. I have no interest in firefighting. I want the ability to do 911 EMS without being a firefighter.

I do see your point. Other than Alexandria Fire and EMS (100% seperate EMS division), there aren't any other paid 911 EMS agencies in Northern Va. I'll obviously disagree with anyone that says EMS should be seperate from fire as a blanket statement, but there should be options regionally for those who want single role medic work only.

 

[atropine]

Im with ya Firecoins... I don't agree with duel-role positions either. Even though Im told if all u want to do is ride the Medic unit someone assigned to the Medic unit would be more than happy to switch with ya....

I still think Paramedic jobs should be separate. I have my State Firefighter I cert but just not into fire suppression. Rescue work I would love though.

Why should it be separate?, what are you going to do as a medic that you can't learn to do anything thing else. We as paramedics aren't performing surgery in the back the ambulance, your taking them to a place so they can recieve definitive care.

 

[JPINFV]

Maybe because some of us value being able to provide care beyond reciting protocols written at an 8th grade science and reading level.

Maybe because some of us value being able to provide care without contacting medical control (like, you know, Los Angeles County).

Better question. What does being able to roll hose or throw a ladder have to do with providing medical care?

 

[EMTinNEPA]

This is ridiculous!

The only reason fire has ANY involvement in EMS is because when EMS was created, the firefighters were already there. EMS back then consisted of a ride to the hospital, nothing more! When somebody realized that what was done in an emergency room wasn't physically impossible out in the world, the game started to change. Now EMS would be well on its way to being viewed as a genuine medical profession if it weren't for the fire departments with their three month medic mills, cookbook medicine, and medics who are medics just because they wanna wide in tha firetwuck! Do you think if a paramedic's educational level were on par with a PA or RN and medics everywhere were taught to operate autonomously instead of following protocols to the letter that people could say "oh, I can be a master of two trades instead of just a jack", or that we would even be having this conversation? Somehow I doubt it. Somehow I doubt I would be sitting here wondering how I'm going to score two full-time positions after medic school so that I can live with a little financial security.

 

[Ridryder911]

Why do I have to be good or (Master) just one thing, why can't I do both, I mean for crying out loud our job is to get the patient to definitive care right? I don't think I need a degree to do that. I mean unless I am wrong, to me definitive care is a Dr., lab, cath lab, x-rays etc. I don't carry any of those on my rig.

Obvious, you have not learned to master either profession. Under what standards and definition are you using to label you as having "mastered" EMS or "Fire Service"? As one that has a degree in both areas, I can assure you I doubt that anyone could master both. Even your asinine statement displays your lack of understanding of emergency medicine and especially prehospital care.

Define what is definitive care? Surgery. ICU. or even dismissing a patient? What about services that actually treat and never transport and leaves patient education material alike the hospital?

Thank goodness, the old days of being able to place a patch on anyone will soon be over! Requiring statistics to be able to read journals (without pretty pictures), having academic level of anatomy and physiology so practitioners actually may know not just the parts of the body but how the body actually works- even at a cellular level. Since the majority of our care is geared to that (unfortunately the majority are not educated enough to recognize that).

Even EMR level will be introduced to Public Health and each level will increase. I and others are hoping that the focus will be placed upon medicine. So much, there will be no time to allow anything else as well as accountability will be raised so those that do not know it, will be removed by infrastructure or litigation(s). In other words, calling oneself a master of multiple things will be much harder when one has to truly and fully understand the profession and be held accountable. Labeling one self a master; will have qualification both academic and clinical practice.

R/r 911

 

[atropine]

[

Better question. What does being able to roll hose or throw a ladder have to do with providing medical care?[/QUOTE]

It seperates the men from the boys.,

 

[atropine]

This is ridiculous!

The only reason fire has ANY involvement in EMS is because when EMS was created, the firefighters were already there. EMS back then consisted of a ride to the hospital, nothing more! When somebody realized that what was done in an emergency room wasn't physically impossible out in the world, the game started to change. Now EMS would be well on its way to being viewed as a genuine medical profession if it weren't for the fire departments with their three month medic mills, cookbook medicine, and medics who are medics just because they wanna wide in tha firetwuck! Do you think if a paramedic's educational level were on par with a PA or RN and medics everywhere were taught to operate autonomously instead of following protocols to the letter that people could say "oh, I can be a master of two trades instead of just a jack", or that we would even be having this conversation? Somehow I doubt it. Somehow I doubt I would be sitting here wondering how I'm going to score two full-time positions after medic school so that I can live with a little financial security.

I think if a paramedics education was on par with a PA's or RN there would be no paramedics, because who do this job for $12.00 per hour. Two trade isn't all that bad pay scale wise, I made more than the RN supervisor last year at one of the local hospitals, and still went on two 3 week vacations.^_^

 

[VentMedic]

I made more than the RN supervisor last year at one of the local hospitals, and still went on two 3 week vacations.^_^

I believe we already calculated out your $100k from last year in another thread. You had to work well over 3000 hours to make that. The RN supervisor only had to work 3 - 12 shifts per week or about 1800 hours to make the same in CA. If you were to work the same number of hours as the RN, you would be in the low income group. The one thing that strikes fear into the heart of every FD employee and union is going to a 40 hour work week. The perks would be gone. Right now that is being discussed as an option for a FD in norther CA.

 

[ResTech]

If your gonna do this job I think the goal should always be to "master"... even if the goal is unobtainable in this field, it is the only goal to be shooting for.

There are prob a lot of great Paramedics that cities don't ever get to consider because they don't (or won't) want to be a Firefighter. Fire and EMS are TOTALLY different fields. The only thing that blends them is tradition, convenience of delivery by already having fire stations in the community, and similar vehicles. The core of EMS which is direct patient care, has nothing to do whatsoever with the fire service and I think this confuses many Firefighters and fire service administrators.

Many firefighters see EMS as a pay grade increase or something that is forced on them of which they comply so they can live their dream of being a career Firefighter. Tell me this isn't true with a large majority?

 

[JPINFV]

I think if a paramedics education was on par with a PA's or RN there would be no paramedics, because who do this job for $12.00 per hour. Two trade isn't all that bad pay scale wise, I made more than the RN supervisor last year at one of the local hospitals, and still went on two 3 week vacations.^_^

If paramedic education was more like RNs or PAs then the pay would be higher than $12/hr.

 

[Onceamedic]

If paramedic education was more like RNs or PAs then the pay would be higher than $12/hr.

Holy crap! you make 12$ and hour? Here in our neck of the woods a brand new baby medic starts at 10.50 - but I did get an 18 cent an hour raise last year....

 

[46Young]

If paramedic education was more like RNs or PAs then the pay would be higher than $12/hr.

Not without unions or strong political organizations to force employer's hands in that regard. Look at the fire service in the Carolinas. Right to work states. There are FF's making $8/hr that need to work multiple 72 hour shifts to survive. There are firemedics in Sc, Mt. Pleasant for one, who are only starting around 30 grand or so. Stark contrast to FF's in CA making 100k, or FDNY FF's topping out in the 60's after 5 years.

See the post above, I'm sure they could use some backing to improve their situation. I'm sure that their employers aren't going to care if new medics have more education, as long as there's more warm bodies to backfill the position. The medic supply isn't exactly going to dry up just because there's a mandated requirement of 2-3 years education or whatever. Medic pay will always be subject to supply and demand, unless a good union or political organization can negotiate for a better deal.