Walmart Raises Minimum Wage to $10 - Why Not EMS?

[medicaltransient]

I think all of healthcare should be regulated as not for profit and that is our problem. The longer I work in EMS the more chicanerous things I see.

 

[Chimpie]

I think all of healthcare should be regulated as not for profit and that is our problem.

Can you explain your reasoning on this?

 

[Summit]

Key to a low paying job:

1. Low barrier to entry
2. Job is fun
3. Job is desirable (many view it as a ticket punch on the resume)
4. Job has social or economic perks like respect or discounts

EMS is a "Glamour" job with societal perks and low barrier to entry that many people need on their resume to move on to other jobs = people lined up for the job = easily replaced employees = barely above minimum-wage for newer employees despite high responsibility and physical labor/risk = high turnover = mostly junior staff with a few senior providers barely making lower-middle-class hourly wages

The only two solutions that I see are to increase the barrier to entry by educational requirements and reduce the desirability of EMS as a resume ticket punch by working to make EMS a healthcare profession and separate it from Fire/Law public safety. But I feel like I've been banging that drum for over a decade.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Am I the only one not getting the pilot references and pictures by Rocket?

 

[gonefishing]

Am I the only one not getting the pilot references and pictures by Rocket?

I do.lol

 

[RocketMedic]

Am I the only one not getting the pilot references and pictures by Rocket?

The basic job of transport can be accomplished by anyone with a pulse, a 120-hour education and a cheap crate of a plane, but modern demands require that pilots be able to fly and fight and that requires more education and training to handle more capable equipment and more challenging missions.

 

[RocketMedic]

Off the top of my head most of us wish for these things in a job:

1- good pay/benefits/pension
2- job satisfaction
3- decent amount of vacation
4- within close proximity to home
5- good management
6- advancement
7-good equipment

So unless you are 'ticking' most of those boxes at your current position...MOVE ON AND STOP COMPLAINING. Or, facilitate change by being proactive: become management, form a union, move into politics and lobby for better pay/benefits. The old 'not enough pay when compared to....' argument can be made to apply to pretty much any career.

In my experience one huge reason for people not advancing themselves educationally or professionally is simply fear. Fear of failure and fear of the unknown. Which is why I have utmost respect for those who attempt to set up their own company, float or sink. I've had colleagues set up their own firms to the sound of sniggers from so-called 'friends', only for said colleagues to go on to make millions. In EMS noone is going to hand out extra money, there has to be huge change...and if you are not happy with your pay, move up or move out or simply...stop complaining.

If you can't find these locally, move.

 

[dank]

Every example you just used is taught in free first aid classes around the world. Style points for vomiting. Everything else we do requires a doc to say we can, and it can be youtube'd. There is nothing special about Basics.

A burger flipper prepares raw meat for cooking and delivery to a customer, providing a clean and safe product. A burger flipper has more opportunity to accidentally cause someone harm than a Basic does on a regular basis.

Last time I checked you did not get state certified and spend half a year in class to do first aid. If it were that easy you could just go down to the local Y and in a few hours pick up an EMT certification.

I have a part-time EMT job that pays $15/hour.

 

[RocketMedic]

So, Dank, what exactly does an EMT do that actually has any medical significance beyond that first aid? (Especially in an ALS system)

 

[Carlos Danger]

I think all of healthcare should be regulated as not for profit and that is our problem.

I'm not sure how anyone can look at the VA, CMS, or the ACA (obamacare) and seriously think that the government should be more involved in the healthcare system.

So, Dank, what exactly does an EMT do that actually has any medical significance beyond that first aid? (Especially in an ALS system)

I think the "all EMT's do is drive an ambulance and do basic first aid so they aren't worth much" thing is going a little too far.

911 response and patient transport is an important job, and EMT skills alone can adequately handle probably 90% of patient transports. In fact, a good argument can be made that dollar for dollar, an EMT is more valuable than a paramedic, and that most ALS agencies wouldn't even be able to exist if it they could only bill for clinically justifiable paramedic interventions.

None of that really matters when it comes to compensation, though. We aren't paid for the amount of our training or even for how important our job is. Our compensation is based on labor market conditions. If the relative importance of our job determined our pay, pro athletes would make minimum wage and garbage men would all earn six figures.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Last time I checked you did not get state certified and spend half a year in class to do first aid. If it were that easy you could just go down to the local Y and in a few hours pick up an EMT certification.

Half a year?
http://www.pelhamtraining.com/EmsPrograms/EmergencyMedicalTechAccelerated.aspx
http://www.unitekeducation.com/emt-training/14-day-emt-boot-camp

It IS basic first aid. Please don't kid yourself. I do believe we teach EMTs a lot of the wrong stuff. Rather than focusing on how to BVM a CHF patient (WTF?) we should be teaching defensive driving, customer service strategy and how to move and position bed bound patients. How to clean up the patients that have a BM in transit. How to interface with SNF nurses and dialysis techs. All the really important stuff that EMTs are NEVER taught.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Hey Chimpie lets just go ahead and change the name of the site to ParamedicLife.com.

Seeing how worthless EMTs are around here nowadays.

People seem to forget their roots, and that although we have low levels on the totem pole EMR, EMT, EMT-A.... We are all part of a team.

And each specialized member of that team provides an invaluable asset towards our goal... Which is patient care.

Let's stop the bashing on our own profession. 95% of our calls are BLS...

Just because we think the bread and butter of our job is simple AND DESERVES A RAISE does not give credence to the notion that any schmuck with a CPR card can come in and contribute to the team as a trained and certified EMT does.

We all agree we need higher education standards, but to say they're bag boys?! Get over yourself. With that mindset screw paramedics- lets just BLS everything and then diesel bolus the remaining 5% to the ER... So the real medical professionals can do their work.

Shape up.

 

[irishboxer384]

We aren't paid for the amount of our training or even for how important our job is. Our compensation is based on labor market conditions. If the relative importance of our job determined our pay, pro athletes would make minimum wage and garbage men would all earn six figures.

This all the way...

 

[RocketMedic]

If you define yourself by your skills, youre not building a case for a raise...

 

[Mthom]

There's plenty of people that want to be EMTs (and are willing to work for free), and people aren't necessarily lining up to work at Walmart, let alone volunteer. A job is a job, but still...

Yeah, so the way I see it, WalMart is having trouble keeping its workers, so they need to raise their wages to keep them. For customers, there may be a rise in prices. If you thought razor blades were expensive before...

As it relates to EMS, a rise in wages equals more expensive care for pts, and how many people are paying for the service?

Seriously, how many? I'm still in school here (have my test coming up soon, though).

Not in the field yet, and while I believe EMS professionals should be paid according to the stress/dangers/lost time with family related to the job, as said before, it's all about market conditions.

 

[akflightmedic]

Garbage Collection professionals should be paid according to the stress/dangers/lost time with family related to the job

Agreed! (fixed it for ya) I mean if we are going to use those standards to base pay on...those dudes are riding on a back of a truck every single day, going into the dodgiest neighborhood ghettos, exposure to the elements, rain, snow or shine they are in it...exposure to unfriendly animals, exposure to whackos in general, heavy lifting constantly, bad smells, hour after hour every single day.

True Heroes!

 

[gonefishing]

Agreed! (fixed it for ya) I mean if we are going to use those standards to base pay on...those dudes are riding on a back of a truck every single day, going into the dodgiest neighborhood ghettos, exposure to the elements, rain, snow or shine they are in it...exposure to unfriendly animals, exposure to whackos in general, heavy lifting constantly, bad smells, hour after hour every single day.

True Heroes!

Around here the machine does everything and they earn $70k a year.

 

[Mthom]

Agreed! (fixed it for ya) I mean if we are going to use those standards to base pay on...those dudes are riding on a back of a truck every single day, going into the dodgiest neighborhood ghettos, exposure to the elements, rain, snow or shine they are in it...exposure to unfriendly animals, exposure to whackos in general, heavy lifting constantly, bad smells, hour after hour every single day.

True Heroes!

Well, I can agree with that. I wasn't referring to just EMS (I guess I may have typed it that way, though). Professions in general should have pay in relation to the conditions of the work, and be in line with market trends. As far as I can see, our population is growing, which will mean more houses and more trash to pick up, in this case, so I foresee higher wages for them in the future.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Here the garbage man makes like 75k a year and drives in a truck that does it all and with more technology than my ambulance..... So yeah....

 

[gonefishing]

Here the garbage man makes like 75k a year and drives in a truck that does it all and with more technology than my ambulance..... So yeah....

That's because of the evil unions [emoji39]