Walmart Raises Minimum Wage to $10 - Why Not EMS?

akflightmedic

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They also don't encounter dangerous situations work in all weather or come in contact with such things as mrsa, cdiff either.lol

A simple youtube search will pull up countless videos of robberies, failed robberies, assaults, jackoffs with attitude, etc....so I disagree. Fast food workers do encounter all types of people...and people tend to be at their worst when they are either A) Sick/Injured or B) HUNGRY!!!

In addition to this, MRSA is everywhere along with every other funky disease/illness out there so anyone working in any public interaction capacity is "exposed". I would go so far to wager unless the bulk of your EMS shift is inside a retirement home, the fast food worker comes into contact and more exposure than the average EMS worker in any given shift. Have you ever taken microbiology and tested a common dollar bill? Scary stuff!

I myself have puked inside a fast food joint and some poor ******* had to clean it up not knowing who I was or if I had any condition he should be concerned about. I have left some pretty bad toilet scenes as well (talking over my life, not recently).

In short, I think certain people need to stop trying to glorify EMS into something it really isn't and instead focus on doing what others have stated. Improve yourself, improve your life...or, simply accept your life will be "mediocre" and live it to the fullest. I do not agree a simple, basic, happy life is mediocre, just playing along with what people seem to be striving for which for most is unattainable despite nothing actually being wrong with that life.
 

SandpitMedic

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Okay you got me.........cuz EMTs don't walk the streets at any point in time right? they don't clean their stations and rigs? they have maids for that, oh and don't forget they always have plenty of breaks so they can eat lunch and dinner. Okay you got me....your right...
I agree with you mostly and am your ally. But keep it civil. Do not make your points with sarcasm and by being condescending. It is an emotional issue... I was emotional and heated earlier(and I apologize), but like with everything... If we come at it objectively and leave emotion at the door... We have a chance at successfully altering the opinions of others and clearly demonstrating logical solutions. We think clearer and are able to articulate better. I'm with you brother, 100%, entry EMT is not entry bag boy or janitor. I'm with you. But remain calm, and bring objectivity to the table.
 

SandpitMedic

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RefriedEMT

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I agree with you mostly and am your ally. But keep it civil. Do not make your points with sarcasm and by being condescending. It is an emotional issue... I was emotional and heated earlier(and I apologize), but like with everything... If we come at it objectively and leave emotion at the door... We have a chance at successfully altering the opinions of others and clearly demonstrating logical solutions. We think clearer and are able to articulate better. I'm with you brother, 100%, entry EMT is not entry bag boy or janitor. I'm with you. But remain calm, and bring objectivity to the table.

Your right, I'm sorry about that. (sets sarcasm/emotion down and walks through the door)
 

COmedic17

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I'm going to poke the cage a bit ( but it's true ).

An EMT is to EMS as a CNA is to nursing.

Just to put it into perspective.
 

RocketMedic

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So, here's my take on this: hourly wages don't really matter in a field that does long-hour shifts anyway, but what does matter is compensation overall, and hourly wages are an easy incomplete way to measure that.

In any industry, there's tiers of jobs. For convenience, I label them 1-4.
Tier 1 is entry-level. They're jobs that pay enough to live comfortably with your parents, but to make it on your own, you're either a monk or cost-sharing. Minimum-wage, long hours, reliant on overtime, etc. Practically all non-Fire EMT jobs fall into this. Low pay, no job security, etc.
Tier 2 is the AMR/Acadian/entry-level independent living, where you make "enough to get by". It's usually paramedic-level. Apartment, car, etc. This is where I lived and most paramedics are- I can afford to live independently modestly, but supporting a family would be very challenging. Most damning though is the lack of job security and realistic retirement option. You can usually start at a Tier-2 if you're not terminally insecure or objectionable.
Tier 3 is the "good" places- career places. Pay north of 50k a year, stable and secure, real pension and benefit plans, etc. They don't want the cost of training new recruits and are hard to get on with fresh out of school, but are worth the effort- career places. High-end AMR, Hall, etc and most non-horrible government services get here.
Tier 4 is where unicorns live. Speedboats, mansions, houses, etc. LA County Fire, CCFD, critical-care RN, PA, etc. Family, Jesus, and luck with a lot of hard work get you here.

The thing is that employers like looker are, by their own decisions, limited to the market they target- kind of like "dress for the job you want", "pay for the market you want". Places that pay minimum wage for EMT and argue over whether or not to pay every hour at work are never going to go away, but they're one audit away from bankruptcy themselves and by definition cannot attract enough of the right people to ever be more than a taxi. looker Ambulance might be a great animal in its chosen environment, but it can't compete outside of it and is exceedingly vulnerable to any changes. Looker knows this and accepts that risk, and continues to accept it by Scrooging hard. As a side effect, his short-term savings lock out potentially lucrative sources of income like county 911 contracts, etc. He relies on a steady flow of fresh blood to live.

Tier 2 services are where most of us are or have started. It's "just enough", but these places are paradoxically limited to what they do now by their lack of willingness to invest in their people and their cost-focused approach to everything and a reliance on expansion and key contracts to support the whole ediface. They actually lock themselves out of markets by underserving their clients and customers and create that underservice by skimping on pay, excitement and quality. A perfect example is Acadian Texas. They market themselves to clients and prospective employees as the cat's own ***- CCT, ESOP, etc and flashy equipment, acronyms and schemes. They then introduce a host of factors that make it less acceptable- byzantine and archaic PTO and multiple pay rates, cost-sharing, lower incidence of 911 vs BLS transfer, etc from the employee's view (driving employees away and destroying retention and potential growth until it becomes a standard or requirement), and illusory or absent ambulance coverage or inadequate capabilities from the client's perspective. At a higher cost than Tier-1, but with sporadic and generally-crappy coverage, communities eventually build a Tier 3 if they care. Tier 2 is dependant on the same flow of new people that looker gets, but is trying to compete with everyone for everything and loses as many as it wins.

Tier 3 places aren't flashy. They aren't loud, if anything, they're low-key. But they're low-key because they're busy pushing the boundaries of what can be done. They can afford to run a little more aggressively because they can recruit and attract better people and more ambitious people who won't justifiably quit at the first better option and keep them longer.

Tier-4 does whatever it wants, because Tier-4 takes Vacation in Tahiti this quarter. You don't leave a T4 unless you die or retire or win the lottery.
 

DrParasite

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While I don't believe that an EMT working in a 911 system is a minimum wage job, I also don't understand the mentality of someone who decides to be a career EMT. This is generally a profession of people who strive to be the best they can be. To me, a career EMT is likely someone who enjoys the attention brought by the position but lacks the testicular fortitude to actually accept responsibility for the outcome of a patient.

No points for standing on the sideline.
For my agency, an EMT starts part time at ~13 an hour, regardless of experience, and a FT EMT makes $15. a medic starts at 15.70, with 0 experience. if you are hired as an EMT, and go to medic school, you start as a 0 experience medic. from what I was told, we haven't gotten raises in almost 5 years. We have quite a few "career" EMTs, who aren't looking to go to medic school any time soon. can you see why?

from what I have been told, the new administration is looking at fixing this, but i'm waiting and seeing.
 

COmedic17

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You also have to take into account where you are living. I'm willing to bet EMTs in California make more then EMTs in Iowa because the cost of living differences.
 

gonefishing

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You also have to take into account where you are living. I'm willing to bet EMTs in California make more then EMTs in Iowa because the cost of living differences.
Emts in California largely make $9 an hour to start. The cost for an average studio apartment is $1k and over. Add in all the other bills and you have a formula for poverty or somebody that qualifies for government assistance.
 

RocketMedic

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Basically, looker is getting this guy:
upload_2015-2-23_12-13-49.jpeg
to fly
upload_2015-2-23_12-14-19.jpeg
against every other dude with 3.5 wheels and a cot, with all the consequences that entails. Local, low-security, and can only really do one or two things at all (maybe strafe ground troops and recce) and not very well at that. They're the Sopwith Camels of EMS.

AMR and Acadian has graduated a bit to single wings and a radio, but can reasonably do most easy things to some degree of "decent enough" faster, better and without a lot of extra training than Looker can, but are both costly and short-ranged and lack room for improvement beyond the obvious- like the FW-190 or P-47, and although the crews are good, there's a steep learning curve and most people quit fast to work at Arby's or go to college.

Tier-3 services are good at doing what's demanded now, in the near-term future and can reasonably soldier on with incremental improvements because they can retain enough of the professionals who really care and are capable of doing a lot more than Looker's hardy crew or AMR's brave new pilots.
f16_pilot_ted_carlson.jpg


Tier 4 dudes just have to worry about what alien woman to seduce this weekend:
upload_2015-2-23_12-28-42.jpeg
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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For profit companies (like lookers) have one goal: to make money. so the less they pay their employees, as long as they can bill successfully, the more money they make. makes sense right?

so what's the incentive to pay more for staff? well, if I can replace every employee with a new grad, pay rock bottom wages, and as long as they fill out the paperwork well enough to bill, it's a win for my company. Also, as long as a new grad will accept minimum wage or below what you feel the industry thinks EMS personnel are worth, there is no incentive for employers to offer any more.

Personally, I won't work for a for-profit agency unless I have no other options. non-profits and government funded agencies tend to pay better. for profit is all about the bottom dollar (as it should be, hence the term for profit), and that often means "we don't are about the quality of care, as long as we can still bill for the trip and make $$$"

if we want to have wages go up, we need to do the following thing: 1) everyone needs to stop accepting jobs for less than you think you should be making. if an employer can't find staff for the salary they are offering, they will need to change something 2) quit your per diem or part time EMS job. only work OT at your FT job. unless an employer needs to pay more, there is no incentive to hire more 3) if your underpaid, quit your job and find a job that pays you better. the longer you stay in a job that under pays you, the lower the incentive there is for management ot change anything.
 

RocketMedic

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Health care, by the way, is presenting EMS with about this level of challenge:
images
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Good luck, looker.
 

Chimpie

Site Administrator
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@looker Adding odd sized pictures to your conversation in attempt to make your point is just... odd.

Working as an EMT isn't a career, it's the fast food job of medicine, and quite frankly, only deserves minimum wage pay.
Could not disagree more.
What's that? It's an entry level job and requires minimal education.

@DEmedic What if that person has no desire or no need to advance, or for more money. If they work 5, 10, 20 years as an EMT. Is that not a career?

This thread is pointless though because we will never agree and that is fine.

That's not the sole purpose of threads. To participate in a forum you have to have an open mind. You don't have to agree with someone's opinion, but you have to be able to understand their point of view.
 

RefriedEMT

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Yea your right, I just could not get them to understand my position as me and SandpitMedic understand that EMTs are not working at the level of a bag boy and therefore should make more than a bag boy.
 

COmedic17

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We are not saying you are a bag boy.
All that has been said is that an EMT takes minimal schooling and skills, and that is why you get less pay. A bag boy might be a type of entry level position to a grocery store, but an EMT is entry level to EMS.

And if you don't agree with the pay, no one is forcing you to continue to be an EMT. You could go to school to obtain a higher certification/degree, or change career fields. Or you could pick up a part time job to supplement your income. That's what a lot of people have to do.

No one said "EMTs don't do anything". We are just saying the scope of what you can do is very small, and that's reflected in your pay scale. We would all love to make more money. But it is what it is.
 

RocketMedic

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An EMT is essentially a bag boy though. Burger flippers generally also run the fryer, stock, clean and register too. A Burger Flipper is more of a paramedic analogue
 

STXmedic

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Yea your right, I just could not get them to understand my position as me and SandpitMedic understand that EMTs are not working at the level of a bag boy and therefore should make more than a bag boy.
Just for future knowledge, you won't often change somebody's mind. It often takes a very good argument to sway somebody's opinion. @SandpitMedic and I tend to demonstrate this very well ;) It does happen, but don't get upset if the other person doesn't share your view.
 

RocketMedic

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Pictures say a thousand words.
 

RefriedEMT

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Yea I never expected to change any minds, only to make them understand my position. As I read the recent posts I can still see they do not understand because I do not believe EMT's should be paid a great amount of money I believe it should simply be at the very least a little higher than minimum wage. I do not work as an EMT for the money, I do it for the kind of work that it is and I only hope that EMT's can be paid enough to make a living. It is as simple as that.
 
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