gonefishing
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I've seen that as well. We eat our young.lol
Walmart Raises Minimum Wage to $10 - Why Not EMS?
- Thread starter MMiz
- Start date
Good luck actually getting 40 hours at walmart. They limit it to below 30 so they don't have to pay health insurance. Also often time especially on bls IFT rig, you don't do much. So work is much easier compare to working at walmart and actually being on your feet at all time.
So you think that owners are greedy? The solution is very simple, start your own company while risking your own money and then you are welcome to pay whatever wage you feel like paying. Those of us that in this business and risked our money didn't go in just to make few bucks. Yes we know that someone will come and work for us for the amount we pay being there is much higher demand for work by emt. If the park start to dry up, you will see the wage going up but i am not seeing that happening anytime soon. Walmart raising their wage as they having trouble finding labor.
No thanks, I am content on where I work. Yes they take risks when first starting, but once established and successful you don't see them raising wages. Also, frankly they treat their employees like trash. Like I said, there will always be another sucker knocking at the door for a job that pays crap as long as educational standards allow it.
Am I saying EMT's deserve more than a low amount of pay? Nope, someone who only has a high school diploma or GED plus a month or two of "schooling" that goes to work for a company who only does transports, and doesnt even USE the minimal skills they were taught in class don't deserve much pay. That may rub some of you the wrong way, but oh well. I started there and got out of it as soon as possible.
Angel
Paramedic
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well burger flippers at in n out make like 11 and hour so...
Owners don't raise wages because as you mentioned education required for this job is extremely low and I personally don't see that changing anytime soon as most of the time it's just a taxi(bls side). At the same time medicare been cutting reimbursement for the last few years . There are companies in California that are big and are having major financial problems. So to say that owners only risk initial investment is not true being that competition is extremely high. If your company sneezes, there will be someone there to take your patient.
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Wages are always and will alway be primarily based on labor supply relative to labor demand. This goes for low-skilled jobs as well as those that require a high level of education.
Your employer does not pay you for your skill, for the number of years that you spent in school, or for your level of responsibility. That is all a myth that ignores basic economics. If it were true, than everyone with a bachelors' degree in any field would have a really good job and everyone with a graduate degree in fine arts would be rich. If it were true, all you'd have to do is get a doctorate while working as an EMT, and your employer would raise your salary to $100k/year. No employer is going to do that, though.
The harsh reality is that just like you pay as little as possible anytime you make any large purchase, an employer purchases labor for as little as possible. Basically, they pay you what they think they have to pay you to keep you around, no less and not much more. If they feel it's more profitable for them to pay below market wages and deal with high turnover, then that's what they'll do. But in no case can any employer ever force any employee to work under terms that the employee doesn't agree to. An employer doesn't owe their employees any pay or benefits that wasn't in the original employment contract, just like the employee doesn't have to work hours or perform tasks that aren't in the original employment contract. You don't like the terms of the contract, don't accept it. Simple.
The busting on Walmart thing is old, unfounded, and frankly, dumb. The people who work there obviously think that they are better off with that job than without it. No one is being forced to work there against their will.
Your employer does not pay you for your skill, for the number of years that you spent in school, or for your level of responsibility. That is all a myth that ignores basic economics. If it were true, than everyone with a bachelors' degree in any field would have a really good job and everyone with a graduate degree in fine arts would be rich. If it were true, all you'd have to do is get a doctorate while working as an EMT, and your employer would raise your salary to $100k/year. No employer is going to do that, though.
The harsh reality is that just like you pay as little as possible anytime you make any large purchase, an employer purchases labor for as little as possible. Basically, they pay you what they think they have to pay you to keep you around, no less and not much more. If they feel it's more profitable for them to pay below market wages and deal with high turnover, then that's what they'll do. But in no case can any employer ever force any employee to work under terms that the employee doesn't agree to. An employer doesn't owe their employees any pay or benefits that wasn't in the original employment contract, just like the employee doesn't have to work hours or perform tasks that aren't in the original employment contract. You don't like the terms of the contract, don't accept it. Simple.
The busting on Walmart thing is old, unfounded, and frankly, dumb. The people who work there obviously think that they are better off with that job than without it. No one is being forced to work there against their will.
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double post again
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That should probably be your signature at this point.
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I know, I don't know it keeps happening, but lately it seems like every time I try to edit a typo or something in one of my posts, the post gets duplicated.
akflightmedic
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Excellent post Remi.
As for the guy who says "once you start up and are over the risk and become successful...", may I ask what you are using to determine success? Do you have access to the daily financials or are you merely speculating based on call volume and how much they bill per run? Your comment is full of ignorance.
As a business owner, some might say I am successful. Yes, I took a LOT of risk to start my venture and it took YEARS before I was in the black. However, long before that people were making assumptions about how much I had and how good I was doing. You have no idea what it takes to run a successful business as evidenced by your inaccurate perspective. So please tell me...at what point do YOU determine MY success and at what point should I stop trying to protect mine and my family's financial future and worry more about yours when you agreed to the job at the accepted wage?
No matter how successful you perceive a business to be...every single day it is at risk. Every single freaking day there is stress and potential for failure. There are contract defaults, contract cancellations, slow pays, no pays, insurance rule changes....and that is just in the accounting department, long before we get to the HR/Employees, overhead, maintenance, etc.
You might actually be VERY surprised at how little margins owners actually walk away with at the end of the year despite the MILLIONS in annual revenue. There is a significant difference between annual revenue and net profit.
Edit - I forgot to mention the moronic patients and employees who tried to file frivolous lawsuits as well because they perceived the "successful" business as a payday for them. Despite them not winning, time and money is lost when it could be better spent on other things within the business. People will do this...even if you are not one of those types, look to you left or to your right because one of your coworkers is.
As for the guy who says "once you start up and are over the risk and become successful...", may I ask what you are using to determine success? Do you have access to the daily financials or are you merely speculating based on call volume and how much they bill per run? Your comment is full of ignorance.
As a business owner, some might say I am successful. Yes, I took a LOT of risk to start my venture and it took YEARS before I was in the black. However, long before that people were making assumptions about how much I had and how good I was doing. You have no idea what it takes to run a successful business as evidenced by your inaccurate perspective. So please tell me...at what point do YOU determine MY success and at what point should I stop trying to protect mine and my family's financial future and worry more about yours when you agreed to the job at the accepted wage?
No matter how successful you perceive a business to be...every single day it is at risk. Every single freaking day there is stress and potential for failure. There are contract defaults, contract cancellations, slow pays, no pays, insurance rule changes....and that is just in the accounting department, long before we get to the HR/Employees, overhead, maintenance, etc.
You might actually be VERY surprised at how little margins owners actually walk away with at the end of the year despite the MILLIONS in annual revenue. There is a significant difference between annual revenue and net profit.
Edit - I forgot to mention the moronic patients and employees who tried to file frivolous lawsuits as well because they perceived the "successful" business as a payday for them. Despite them not winning, time and money is lost when it could be better spent on other things within the business. People will do this...even if you are not one of those types, look to you left or to your right because one of your coworkers is.
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Aw did I hurt your business owner feelings? I am not talking about businesses that have a slim margin and have to worry about their crap every day. Im sure AMR and companies that are buying everyone up are worried about that stuff. I know for a fact that businesses can pay their employees more, not just in EMS. Like I also said, they don't deserve more money.
akflightmedic
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So answer my question. What is a "slim margin"? What are you basing this on? Who are you to determine how much a company can or should make based on their years of start up followed by a successful business model?
Where is the cutoff? How do you arrive at this "cap"? Who will enforce it?
Where is the cutoff? How do you arrive at this "cap"? Who will enforce it?
JosephDurham
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If Walmart can pay their employees starting out $10 an hr then so be it. Money isn't everything. How many people out there really make over $15 an hr? I know I sure don't.
Remember were not in this for the money, if so, there is certainly a problem.
Joseph
Remember were not in this for the money, if so, there is certainly a problem.
Joseph
akflightmedic
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I disagree Joseph, we ARE in this for the money as this is a career. People can fool themselves and say it is a calling or whatever, but it is your chosen profession, therefore you are entitled to be paid and should be paid accordingly. The problem arises when people think their value is greater than what it actually is. Almost every employe in every profession has done this at one time or another...from the $7/hour worker to the 3M/Annual Executive...everyone over values their contribution and subsequent worth. Sometimes they are right, but many times they are not.
So if we ARE in this for the money, the next issue is how much? How much should a 3 month "graduate" earn? Claiming you "save lives, get spat on, vomited on, etc" is irrelevant as it comes with the job. You accepted these terms when you pursued the education and accepted the job. There are no points awarded for having what you perceive to be the greatest contribution to society overall as I could probably come up with dozens of other trades which have less than glamorous hazards and we do not hear them screaming in the streets.
So if we ARE in this for the money, the next issue is how much? How much should a 3 month "graduate" earn? Claiming you "save lives, get spat on, vomited on, etc" is irrelevant as it comes with the job. You accepted these terms when you pursued the education and accepted the job. There are no points awarded for having what you perceive to be the greatest contribution to society overall as I could probably come up with dozens of other trades which have less than glamorous hazards and we do not hear them screaming in the streets.
cruiseforever
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JosephDurham
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Some departments can do, and that's a great thing.
TransportJockey
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It's not only if they can do there's also a question of why they should. In most places EMTs are a dime a dozen and there'll be a line of new candidates to replace them if they quit over low pay.
akflightmedic
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I have learned a lot shifting from paramedic to business owner. The "low pay" discussion is always entertaining.
Employee: I am quitting because you do not pay me enough.
Boss: You have been here 6 months.
Employee: Exactly!
Boss: Huh?
Boss: Is everything about the job exactly as I stated it would be? Has anything changed? Have I added duties not discussed prior? Have I placed any unreasonable demands or burdens upon you, have there been any surprises?
Employee: No, but...$$$ or I leave.
Boss: Why did you accept the job in the first place and waste my time and money? Sorry you feel this way. Next....!
Employee: I am quitting because you do not pay me enough.
Boss: You have been here 6 months.
Employee: Exactly!
Boss: Huh?
Boss: Is everything about the job exactly as I stated it would be? Has anything changed? Have I added duties not discussed prior? Have I placed any unreasonable demands or burdens upon you, have there been any surprises?
Employee: No, but...$$$ or I leave.
Boss: Why did you accept the job in the first place and waste my time and money? Sorry you feel this way. Next....!
irishboxer384
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Ironically the most I have ever been paid involved me doing the least amount of work. And the least I've ever been paid had me doing the most work.
Based just off initial observations of their employees, Walmart employees never seem to stop working...it looks like a miserable, over-worked job for pittance. So I'm glad they are geting a little extra. Compare that to an EMT...and how much time can be spent just sitting on ipad in an ambulance (generally speaking)...and the pay is 'fair'. As @Remi stated, simple supply and demand.
As for business owners being able to pay more...why should they? They have to assess the balance between paying enough to keep quality employees, and making a profit...they are not there to provide jobs for the masses: they are there to reap the financial rewards for themselves, after they took the daunting step of starting their own firm.
Based just off initial observations of their employees, Walmart employees never seem to stop working...it looks like a miserable, over-worked job for pittance. So I'm glad they are geting a little extra. Compare that to an EMT...and how much time can be spent just sitting on ipad in an ambulance (generally speaking)...and the pay is 'fair'. As @Remi stated, simple supply and demand.
As for business owners being able to pay more...why should they? They have to assess the balance between paying enough to keep quality employees, and making a profit...they are not there to provide jobs for the masses: they are there to reap the financial rewards for themselves, after they took the daunting step of starting their own firm.