Use of Backup Spotters

[WuLabsWuTecH]

So I saw an article today (http://www.firehouse.com/news/11057508/cops-phoenix-ff-who-struck-killed-another-didnt-have-spotter) that mentioned the death of a firefighter caused by a backing accident.

Recently, one of my departments has a Chief who is on a warpath for making sure we use spotters while backing AT ALL TIMES. The only times we can choose not to use one is if (1. we are alone 2. There is no suitable person to serve as backer, or 3. Using a backer would adversely affect patient care.)

Now every department I've ever been on has had a backer policy, but usually its enforcement is very lax and for things that you do hundreds of times (backing out of a place at the hospital, backing into the station, backing out of that unfortunate placing of the diesel pump at the gas station) no one says anything or cares if you don't have a backer. But this particular chief has decided to be very strict (and I can't say I blame him).

I was curious as to how strict your own departments are in enforcing backing policies. A lot of people on my department thought that this reminder of the policy was just going to be a gentle nudge and didn't take it seriously (and why would they expect different when the policy has been there for decades but never enforced?), pissed off our chief, and now our chief comes out of his office to make sure there's backer every time he hears a backup alarm!

Obviously the best thing to do is to avoid positioning your vehicle such that backing is necessary, but there are times where you don't have that luxury!


(Though this is a news article that sparked me to ask the question, I believe that it fits here better than in news since my question is in relation to a topic and not the news article in itself. Mods please move this if you feel my judgment here was wrong)

 

[WBExpatMedic]

My department goes in cycles. We'll have to use a spotter for a month or so then the chiefs will move on to something else for 8 or 9 months before coming back to it. We call it the "Flavor of the month discipline plan."

 

[mycrofft]

Backers are like checklists. No-backers is like mental checklists. I like using backers, but train them first.

 

[EpiEMS]

Better to have one and not need one, than to not have one and need one!

 

[NomadicMedic]

At my service it is mandatory that we have a backer at all times, unless we are alone. If you're observed by the supervisor backing up a truck while you have a person who can act as a backer, both of you will receive written discipline. As in, you're backing up and your partner sitting is in the passenger seat. You both get paper.

They don't mess around with it here.

 

[Tigger]

At my service it is mandatory that we have a backer at all times, unless we are alone. If you're observed by the supervisor backing up a truck while you have a person who can act as a backer, both of you will receive written discipline. As in, you're backing up and your partner sitting is in the passenger seat. You both get paper.

They don't mess around with it here.

My place in Boston was like that. If the driver hit something without a spotter both could be terminated. At the place I am currently being forced out of/quitting, both providers would be fired on the spot for no spotter.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Per policy we are supposed to however it's not strictly enforced. Generally fire will back us on scene though unless they didn't respond for whatever reason or we dismissed them.

If you back into something you better have a damn good reason why you didn't have a backer though.

Any time a fire apparatus reverses here they have at least one spotter. I always use my code lights in reverse as well unless it is affecting vision. Makes you more visible and keeps people away from you.

 

[Medic Tim]

Where I used to work we had a "back up button" our spotter had to push every time the truck was put in reverse. There was an actual button on the rear of the ambulance that had to be pushed. There was also one on the inside back door. We had key fobs and everything was monitored. The only time per policy we didn't have to push it was when backing from a roadway into a driveway as they did not want us standing in the middle of the road to do it. we have to fill out an incident report every time the button is not pushed.

 

[ffemt8978]

Where I used to work we had a "back up button" our spotter had to push every time the truck was put in reverse. There was an actual button on the rear of the ambulance that had to be pushed. There was also one on the inside back door. We had key fobs and everything was monitored. The only time per policy we didn't have to push it was when backing from a roadway into a driveway as they did not want us standing in the middle of the road to do it. we have to fill out an incident report every time the button is not pushed.

So in order to back up there had to be a person close enough to the back of the rig to be hit by it while backing up?:huh:

 

[Handsome Robb]

So in order to back up there had to be a person close enough to the back of the rig to be hit by it while backing up?:huh:

I'm guessing they hit the button as they walk by to ID that there was a spotter in place during the reverse...I'm just a dumb paramedic though so who knows.

 

[MMiz]

So in order to back up there had to be a person close enough to the back of the rig to be hit by it while backing up?:huh:

We had those, too. I believe it was part of Road Safety system that recorded speed, RLS activation, seat belts, etc.

The attendant had to push the button on the bumper then act as a spotter. If they were inside the rig there was a button located near the rear doors that they'd push as they watched from inside.

Road Safety says that 85% of EMS accidents occur in reverse. Based on the accidents I saw while working in EMS, I'd say that's true.

 

[Kevinf]

Not that spotters are infallible. One of my supervisors backed me into a pole (no damage done) and wrote me up for it. Figure that one out.

I frequently see large box trucks with convex mirrors on an arm attached to the topside back of the box. Backup cameras also exist. I'm curious why we don't see these items more often in EMS.

 

[rmabrey]

I frequently see large box trucks with convex mirrors on an arm attached to the topside back of the box. Backup cameras also exist. I'm curious why we don't see these items more often in EMS.

Cause they cost money

 

[Kevinf]

Also: Spotters aren't infallible. One of my supervisors backed me into a guide pole (no damage done) and wrote me up for it... figure that one out. Here's the rest of the story: I had just started there not long ago (as a brand new EMT) and this happened after I had asked him to spot since the side mirrors were frosted over due to freezing rain on the transport and it was night and in an unlit bay. I had initially told him I was just going to pull into the bay front first (no issues with that, loading either way is fine as I found out other crews and supers park front first all the time) but he absolutely insisted that I MUST back in even after I told him I couldn't see out of the mirrors anymore. I insisted on pulling in and he was was adamant that I HAD TO back in. It's my first time at that place and I'm new to all this and I'm assuming he's got good reasons so I asked him to spot for me. "Your good, your good... sccchhrrrcchh." "You hit the pole."..... thanks, big help there. I did learn a few things from that however: if I'm driving I don't care if Jesus himself tells me I need to do something, I'm driving and parking how I see best. And secondly, not to trust that supervisor for anything. He quit a few weeks later. Turns out that super was more than a bit on the OCD side and had to have things done his way. If you folded straps your way on the stretcher he would unfold them and refold them to suit his preference, things like that. So the only reason I HAD to back in was because of his OCD demanding it. There were other supers with the company at the time and after I had gotten to know them better one of them told me there was a big fight about that write-up upstairs but they let it stand since it was done already. "That was bull:censored::censored::censored::censored:" was the exact phrasing.

I frequently see large box trucks with convex mirrors on an arm attached to the topside back of the box. Backup cameras also exist. I'm curious why we don't see these items more often in EMS.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Not that spotters are infallible. One of my supervisors backed me into a pole (no damage done) and wrote me up for it. Figure that one out.

I frequently see large box trucks with convex mirrors on an arm attached to the topside back of the box. Backup cameras also exist. I'm curious why we don't see these items more often in EMS.

We have reverse cameras, DriveCam/iDrive depending on which rig you're in as well as a right hand turn camera that looks down the right side of the rig.

Big brother is watching...

 

[Medic Tim]

We had those, too. I believe it was part of Road Safety system that recorded speed, RLS activation, seat belts, etc.

The attendant had to push the button on the bumper then act as a spotter. If they were inside the rig there was a button located near the rear doors that they'd push as they watched from inside.

Road Safety says that 85% of EMS accidents occur in reverse. Based on the accidents I saw while working in EMS, I'd say that's true.

everything we did was monitored. if we put the rig in reverse without the button being pushed there would be a loud tone played from a speaker beside your head. It would also tick if you were going to fast, breaking to hard, turning to hard, no seatbelt, etc.

if we were by ourselves we would have to do a walk around and push the button on the way. once it was pushed you had 30 seconds to put the truck in reverse.

 

[Wheel]

everything we did was monitored. if we put the rig in reverse without the button being pushed there would be a loud tone played from a speaker beside your head. It would also tick if you were going to fast, breaking to hard, turning to hard, no seatbelt, etc.

if we were by ourselves we would have to do a walk around and push the button on the way. once it was pushed you had 30 seconds to put the truck in reverse.

We have this also. It's rather annoying, but effective.

 

[Handsome Robb]

We have this also. It's rather annoying, but effective.

We had it as well then went it the DriveCam system and then now they flopped to iDrive. Still in the process of putting it in to all the units though. I think they're just waiting until each one goes out to be remounted to do it though.

 

[rmabrey]

everything we did was monitored. if we put the rig in reverse without the button being pushed there would be a loud tone played from a speaker beside your head. It would also tick if you were going to fast, breaking to hard, turning to hard, no seatbelt, etc.

if we were by ourselves we would have to do a walk around and push the button on the way. once it was pushed you had 30 seconds to put the truck in reverse.

It doesnt take long to find ways around it. Reverse > gun it > neutral

 

[cprted]

My service requires the use of a spotter for backing "when operationally possible." It isn't enforced very much ... unless you back into something ... then you're up the creek ...