Actually, once the weapon and person is detained, their employers are notified as their policies clearly state "NO guns". One hospital I worked at did have a special locker for employees to put their weapons in when commuting through the riot areas. That was over 20 years ago. While there is still violence, people have not felt the need to carry a weapon to work even if they still keep it in their house for protection. I rarely care mine in the car but still keep a couple of weapons at home. I am not anti-gun but I have seen what EMS attracks and there is no way I want those who already have a whacker view of this profession now joining just for the chance to carry a gun to be really cool. Or, joining the local EMT class because the Police Academy tossed them out.
Self-Defense and EMS
- Thread starter Hopeless Romantic
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Actually, once the weapon and person is detained, their employers are notified as their policies clearly state "NO guns". One hospital I worked at did have a special locker for employees to put their weapons in when commuting through the riot areas. That was over 20 years ago. While there is still violence, people have not felt the need to carry a weapon to work even if they still keep it in their house for protection. I rarely care mine in the car but still keep a couple of weapons at home. I am not anti-gun but I have seen what EMS attracks and there is no way I want those who already have a whacker view of this profession now joining just for the chance to carry a gun to be really cool. Or, joining the local EMT class because the Police Academy tossed them out.
medic417
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Actually lock boxes I mention are in the ambulance so gun never enters hospital.
And again I agree that many in EMS should not have the ability to even own a gun much less carry, but those are also the same people that if we were a real profession would be weeded out.
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VentMedic... someone in EMS who carries as part of their job would likely be trained as a LEO. Someone in EMS who carries for their own personal protection... will be carrying for their own personal protection. Also, while a search can be done to show that healthcare workers can (and have) used firearms to kill for their own personal reasons, the same can be said for cops, firefighters, lawyers, and... regular people.
I'm not suggesting that EMS carry on the job. That's something completely different... and generally in the realm of the Tactical Medic.
I'm not suggesting that EMS carry on the job. That's something completely different... and generally in the realm of the Tactical Medic.
HotelCo
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What DO you do? If they want your life, they want your life. They can pull the trigger a lot faster than you can draw your weapon, turn the safety off, and fire.
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Fortunately or unfortuately, YOU don't get that choice. As much as I feel that certain people shouldn't be able to own firearms (and I'm not just refering to criminals), in most states, doing that expressly violates the State Constitution. That's just the way it is.
EMS, in general, should NOT be an armed service, as the military and police servcies are. All I'm saying is that should someone wish to carry to protect themselves, they should be allowed to do so. I believe that if you want to carry as part of your job and derive your authorization to carry as part of your job... you should become a LEO. Oh, and there are plenty of whackers in Law Enforcement too...
The ONLY exception to this would be those medics that are part of a SWAT team... and those folks should be as well trained in firearm use as the rest of the team. It's far cheaper and easier to train a medic for that than it is to train a cop to be a medic.
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Which is also why one should also seek out unarmed combat training. I don't mean McDojo training. People who have actually taken appropriate training recognize the time difference. The Tueller drill is spectacularly useful in this regard...
DV_EMT
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I believe that any person that belongs to an orginization that deals with the public on a daily basis should have the right to have a weapon... near or on them. look at mini mart clerks... most have shotguns... or how bout cabbies... they have pistols. All I'm saying is that EMS deals with a variety of people on a daily basis... and I think that they should be able to have a form of self defense that works best for them... be it a tazer, pepper spray, gun, or big club with nails in it.
and to weed out those whackers with a desire to idolize and misuse guns.... there is an extensive background check that is run for a concealed weapons licence... I know for fact that they don't just give them out like candy in Ca. I'd be a good canidate for one actually as I work in a pharmacy and have access to a Multitude of Various Benzos/Uppers/ and the such.... If anyone was a target... itd be me (hence my passion of the topic)
and to weed out those whackers with a desire to idolize and misuse guns.... there is an extensive background check that is run for a concealed weapons licence... I know for fact that they don't just give them out like candy in Ca. I'd be a good canidate for one actually as I work in a pharmacy and have access to a Multitude of Various Benzos/Uppers/ and the such.... If anyone was a target... itd be me (hence my passion of the topic)
EMTecBOB
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Even then it is not a good idea. There is an old saying that says the winner of a knife fight usually dies the next day in the hospital.
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Vent: I'm not sure about "most states" - I only pay attention to the laws I need to follow.
PA has no such requirement
VA has no such requirement
FL bars weapons from "mental health treatment areas" - but hospitals are a gray area.
medichopeful
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I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. The only time somebody should take on somebody with a knife is when they have a gun or, better yet, a partner with a Taser (one goes less-lethal, but if that doesn't work, the other one can use lethal force). They should not just get near them and try to tackle them or anything like that. They should get adequate cover, and keep the person at gunpoint. They should NOT go near to the assailant until either they drop the knife, are incapacitated, or are killed.
If they do what you say (and nobody ever goes up against somebody with a knife), then we would have a serious problem. What would the police do if there was somebody brandishing a weapon? Do nothing? No. They would have to face-off against that person, and sense they are both armed and trained, they are the best option.
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Well said.
Unfortunatly, my state's EMS office does not allow me this freedom of choice - even though the Commonwealth of PA's Constitution says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be questioned".
medic417
The Truth Provider
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Well rest easy as if you are killed your family can get rich suing because you were denied the right to defend yourself in violation of the Constitution. Plus negligence in failing to provide protection since personal defense was prohibited and they failed to send people to defend you.
If you look up the concealed weapon carry acts in any of these states you will find the wording pretty much the same for what places that do not allow guns. As well, even in Texas, a private place of business can bar weapons from their establishment or any property owned by them. What you may be referring to is for LEO which are required to put their weapons in a lock box at a security desk for mental health and locked units. However, we do have LEOs who carry in our hospitals but no one else is authorized to carry especially citizens (including EMTs) with a concealed weapon permit.
This whole thread has been about EMTs carrying guns on ambulances. These are also some of the same who believe Firefighting and EMS are two different fields. How many are willing to go through the additional training of the LEO academy and regularly qualify on the range when for some maintaining a CPR card is a stretch?
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Vent - I worked in a PA hospital, in the Security department. While we did not have a locked psych unit, it was a daily occurrence to have at LEAST one involuntary psych hold sitting in the ED waiting for a transfer to an inpatient facility, or to sober up before transfer, etc.
In PA, aside from a VERY few places (Courtrooms, Jails, and a handful of other places) - a citizen with a valid license to carry can carry anywhere.
By policy, weapons were not permitted in the hospital (I think PD was exempted, and we liked them, anyway). Legally, though, IF it were to come to our attention that a non-patient had a firearm on the property, etc... we could do nothing more than ask them to leave, and give them a warning that they were trespassing (because they failed to follow our rules). If they refused to leave, we could then call the PD... only crime they could be charged with though, was trespass.
In reality, we would either offer to secure the firearm in our property safe, or ask that it be secured in their vehicle or elsewhere, and not on their person. If they pushed back, then we went the other route.
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Just doesn't look right...
Whats wrong? That they have to wear body armor and Kevlar helmets so they are safe to treat Grandma?
If you have never been to Israel - let me educate you here a bit: If you are permitted to own and carry a firearm - you do that. Almost everywhere. No one really gets upset about them - it is a way of life there. You'll even see some men wearing them on the Sabbath (I can discuss the religious law and "loopholes" if you want to PM me)
It is a VERY safe country. When bad things DO happen, they are often stopped very early by alert security personnel or private citizens that are lawfully carrying - and using - firearms.
As far as I have been able to tell - MDA (Magen David Adom - Red Star of David) doesn't have any prohibitions on their members carrying lawfully owned firearms, at least within Israel. I'm sure they have to follow different rules when they are displaying the "Red Crystal" in place of or with the Magen David Adom, especially on international relief missions.
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Also - someone made the comment of an ankle holster as the only way to carry concealed in uniform.
Ankle holsters have a lot of negatives to them, and some positives.
I once did an experiment when I worked Security - we were trained as armed guards, but unarmed. I had a holster that would fit inside my waistband and secure to my trouser belt, and allow the shirt to be tucked in over the gun. I put that on with my regular uniform, and duty belt over the trouser belt. It wasn't really quick access... but it was there, on my hip, with a single layer of shirt in the way. And it was invisible - even for a medium-framed semiautomatic.
Small frame pistols can be carried in a pocket holster and be undetectable. They also are making cargo pocket holsters that will hold a pistol as big as a subcompact Glock or similar. And I could also talk about belly bands, thunderwear, or jacket/vest holsters.
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I was going to say that pic above looked like Israel... That's VERY normal for them. One of the reasons why terrorists there have stopped (by and large) attempted to shoot into crowds is that they're quickly located and stopped by armed citizens. They now use bombs...
lightsandsirens5
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Ahhh...ok. Guess my service has just said no. (And thats funny seeing as how we are run by the county SO.)
Hopeless Romantic
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I don't think EMS should be allowed to carry firearms. That's way too much responsibility on their part.
If you think about it, you have a lot of weapons on the rig to defend yourself if need be.
Guns aren't the end all be all of weapons either. If I had the choice, I'd rather take someone on with a gun then with a knife. Guns can jam, guns can run out of ammo, guns are easy to use. Knives on the other hand are none of that. I'd even venture to say that those who attack with a knife are most likely going to be more trained then those attacking with a gun.
If you think about it, you have a lot of weapons on the rig to defend yourself if need be.
Guns aren't the end all be all of weapons either. If I had the choice, I'd rather take someone on with a gun then with a knife. Guns can jam, guns can run out of ammo, guns are easy to use. Knives on the other hand are none of that. I'd even venture to say that those who attack with a knife are most likely going to be more trained then those attacking with a gun.
DV_EMT
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this is a good point... I hardly doubt that someone in an armed robbery scenario would be out of ammo, but jamming... it happens more than you'd think. If they're savvy with guns... they know how to unjam them... and quick.
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