Self-Defense and EMS

[HotelCo]

Oh, if we're talking about knives... I carry mine nearly all the time.

 

[Medic One]

best self-defense is not walking into a situation you can't get out of....
Bust as far as some type of training look into local police departments for some basic training...they will most likely be more than willing to have a few volunteers for their guys to beat up!!

 

[medicp94dao]

to quote jenny "RUN FORREST RUN!!!!!" LOL.

 

[medic417]

best self-defense is not walking into a situation you can't get out of....
!!

Where can we buy that crystal ball? There is no way to predict which call will go bad.

 

[Sasha]

Where can we buy that crystal ball?

On ebay, duh.

 

[JB42]

Link for your crystal ball.

 

[VentMedic]

Where can we buy that crystal ball? There is no way to predict which call will go bad.

You do realize I would have more of a chance getting shot working in a hospital where some of you live from a desparate person taking a weapon away from an EMT(P) who has only a concealed weapon class than I would working on an rescue or driving my nice SUV in one of the worst areas of Miami?

 

[citizensoldierny]

If you are (you're) a police officer and you are (you're) on scene, and the police left, how could you still be there?

Yep, I'm struggling with that one too.:wacko:

 

[Sasha]

Link for your crystal ball.

You see? Now medic417, if you're a good little boy I will buy you one for christmas so you are never in harms way again.

 

[medic417]

You see? Now medic417, if you're a good little boy I will buy you one for christmas so you are never in harms way again.

Wow gee really. That is just swell, I mean hot diggity dog swell.

 

[Sasha]

Wow gee really. That is just swell, I mean hot diggity dog swell.

Isn't it just the bee's knees?

 

[medic417]

Isn't it just the bee's knees?

How bout us going out and cutting a rug to celebrate?

 

[Akulahawk]

best self-defense is not walking into a situation you can't get out of....

Always plan for a hasty exit... whether it be for your own safety or a load & go patient.

to quote jenny "RUN FORREST RUN!!!!!" LOL.

If it comes to it... drop your gear and RUN!!!!!!!

You do realize I would have more of a chance getting shot working in a hospital where some of you live from a desparate person taking a weapon away from an EMT(P) who has only a concealed weapon class than I would working on an rescue or driving my nice SUV in one of the worst areas of Miami?

Ideally... you'd never know I'd be carrying... and neither would that desperate person. Were I to carry openly, I'd be using a retention holster, a good belt... and would be prepared to beat the crap out of anyone who touches my gun. That includes my partner.

 

[VentMedic]

Ideally... you'd never know I'd be carrying... and neither would that desperate person. Were I to carry openly, I'd be using a retention holster, a good belt... and would be prepared to beat the crap out of anyone who touches my gun. That includes my partner.

If your weapon was that concealed you would probably have a difficult time retrieving it in an emergency situation. If proven you had time to escape then you intent as to why you used your weapon might be viewed differently in a court of law. You could then be considered the aggressor.

There are alot of criminals or gang members out there who are much more aware of whether you are carrying or not and are much more experienced at gaining and using a weapon than you.

Once it becomes known that there are EMT(P)s in the field who are armed, their perception and trust in you changes. I have seen this many times when caring for prisoners, detainees, gang member or whatever. As soon as a CO or LEO enters, the mood changes.

 

[Akulahawk]

If your weapon was that concealed you would probably have a difficult time retrieving it in an emergency situation. If proven you had time to escape then you intent as to why you used your weapon might be viewed differently in a court of law. You could then be considered the aggressor.

There are alot of criminals or gang members out there who are much more aware of whether you are carrying or not and are much more experienced at gaining and using a weapon than you.

Once it becomes known that there are EMT(P)s in the field who are armed, their perception and trust in you changes. I have seen this many times when caring for prisoners, detainees, gang member or whatever. As soon as a CO or LEO enters, the mood changes.

Vent, I have seen this change in people as well. It's not just because the person that walked in is a CO or a LEO is armed, it's because the person who walked in is a CO or a LEO. They know you're there to help them. They know the CO/LEO isn't. I do agree that if it becomes known that Paramedics are carrying firearms for their own protection, it very well could change the public perception (criminal and non-criminal alike) of EMS as a life-saving entity.

As to carrying a concealed weapon, you have no idea what my level of training and awareness is, just as I have no idea of your level of training/awareness. I'm probably as aware, if not more so, of the general legalities of the use and carrying of weapons by non-LEOs, than most people on this forum, and that probably includes most LEOs.

I'm also quite aware that there are criminals (and cops) that can spot the "tells" that many people have when they're armed. Also, by and large, guess what? Criminals avoid armed citizens more than they avoid openly armed cops. Care to guess why? Interviews with thousands of inmates have yielded some very consistent results: Criminals are more afraid of being shot by a citizen than they are of a cop. Why is that? They know that a cop has to follow some very specific use of force rules, which means the cop is going to follow a "script" in using that force. The criminal knows at what points the cop will increase the level of force necessary and at what points deadly force is authorized. A citizen's use of force response is much less scripted.

 

[VentMedic]

I'm also quite aware that there are criminals (and cops) that can spot the "tells" that many people have when they're armed. Also, by and large, guess what? Criminals avoid armed citizens more than they avoid openly armed cops. Care to guess why? Interviews with thousands of inmates have yielded some very consistent results: Criminals are more afraid of being shot by a citizen than they are of a cop. Why is that? They know that a cop has to follow some very specific use of force rules, which means the cop is going to follow a "script" in using that force. The criminal knows at what points the cop will increase the level of force necessary and at what points deadly force is authorized. A citizen's use of force response is much less scripted.

Here you contradict yourself and you will have to open carry or made it known to everyone you are carrying. That will change you image and you will pose a threat regardless of the Star of Life on your truck or shirt.

Once you start carrying a gun "for the job" you are no longer just Mr/Ms Citizen out to protect yourself.

and would be prepared to beat the crap out of anyone who touches my gun. That includes my partner.

In all seriousness, these "I'm gonna shoot and/or fight anyone that threatens me" remarks made by some here are rather scary. I would be very afraid of having someone like this as a partner. The chances are those who "wanna get a gun" are exactly the type that should not be carrying in ANY situation.

If you want to shoot people, try out for the PD. However, you might have a rude awakening that shooting people is not their intent which is why they train in other skills to avoid using their gun. This is what EMS personnel need to be thinking about. Again, I advise some taking a look at DT4EMS's website or email him for advice. I do not recommend people to start carrying a weopon because it sounds good coming from an anonymous forum.

DT4EMS
http://www.dt4ems.net/

 

[medic417]

In all seriousness, these "I'm gonna shoot and/or fight anyone that threatens me" remarks made by some here are rather scary. I would be very afraid of having someone like this as a partner. The chances are those who "wanna get a gun" are exactly the type that should not be carrying in ANY situation.

Vent you are the one saying we are going to fight rather than run. If a person is threatening and I can leave, I leave, and I get that idea from the posts of other concealed carry supporters as well. Those of us in favor of the right to carry have said many times the firearm is last resort. If I can clear out I will. But if trapped with no option but die or fight I choose to fight. How often does it happen? Who knows? But once is to often.

By the logic you and others present then we should quit using many items we have in our ambulances and hospitals because the odds are we will not need them. Why should the most educated doctor have access to that equipment that the odds are he will never use? They have it so they can save a life maybe. Same for those that choose to carry we may save a life.

 

[Sasha]

Same for those that choose to carry we may save a life.

Or cost a life.

You may run if given the opprotunity, but that does not necessarily mean everyone will. Guns can give a person a courage boost to take on situations they would otherwise flee from.

 

[VentMedic]

The difference between the equipment used by doctors and guns is the intended purpose.

Vent you are the one saying we are going to fight rather than run.

Your remarks have been pretty consistent throughout this thread.

Just pull your concealed firearm and shoot them in self defense. Issue solved.

It is service by service. Most services make no policy. If they say no and you are killed your family can sue and win because you were denied right to defend. If they say yes and you do something stupid they are responsible. So that is why most just ignore it and leave it up to you to obey gun laws in your area.

If you want to carry a gun, you should be able to discuss this with your employer. There are the ones who also will be paying for whatever mistakes you make. Those who can not have this discussion with their employer are cowards and probably have no business carrying a gun which will just give them a false sense of security or courage that they don't have. These would be the people most likely to shoot at their own shadow and hit their partner or some other bystander.

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

I don't know if all know and understand the use of lethal force drawing a gun. We were taught never to shoot to disarm, impede an attack, or anything other than lethal force. three shots one to the head, one to the neck, one to the thoracic area. every single time.
Use of a fire arm to disarm, impede a threat, threaten is inappropriate and dangerous use of a firearm. I believe some know this, but am not sure everyone rallying to carry full understands the implications and responsibilities of carrying by proffesion