Security Guards

They always tell us to quit parking next to the doors :rolleyes:

"So where should we park?"
"Not here, not ere! You can't park here blah blah blah"
 
We have one gated community around here that we frequently respond to. Never have had an issue with the security guards there, as we bypass the gate anyways because the rig doesn't fit under the roof of the guard house. We instead have to drive through the outgoing traffic side to get into the complex. It's a poorly designed system.


I've noticed most hospitals around here using security codes to enter the ER now. While it's not effective in the least, it keeps people from mistakenly going into the ambulance entrance rather than the regular entrance.
 
Yep! Although, sans badges by the time they got to a cell.

There was no property damage. With a manned guard shack, the gate remained open. I seriously doubt the tech would have physically crashed a gate, and my response would have been different if he had.

The tech had more than ample identification, being both in uniform and in a company vehicle full of company equipment and paperwork. There was zero reason to doubt his identity, and state law gives security guards NO right whatsoever to decide whether the tech's business is legitimate or not. Security guards in that state are given training on all of the laws that they violated in detaining the tech. They know better. They blew it.

Since the gate was opened and not damaged then no charges against the cable guy. I'm curious when did cable tv become a essential utility. I can see telephone, electrical, water, and the gas comany as an essential utility but cable tv. What the security guards should have done is contact the cable company to verify that there is a legit work order. After getting confirmation from the cable company they would have let the cable go do what he needed to do.
 
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While i've been involved in EMS fo a little over a year I've been involved in private security on and off since Nov 1985. A few years ago I was place in charge of a venue at a music festival and I had this idiot of a guard who thought he was a police officer. He bossed everyone around exceeding his authority and swearing a lot. I had numerous talks with the guard it didn't any good as I could not fire him. There were a couple of incidents where I thought his actions would get him sued me as his supervisor sued and the festival sued. Luckily we didn't get sued.
 
I've noticed most hospitals around here using security codes to enter the ER now. While it's not effective in the least, it keeps people from mistakenly going into the ambulance entrance rather than the regular entrance.

At our big hospital we have what I believe are RFID fobs. There is a reader outside the ambulance door, and the 2 authorized sets of keys for each rig have a fob on it that you have to wave in front of the door to get in.

It's not fool proof because someone could get a hold of the keys, but since they don't have the company name or anything on them it's not obvious what the fob is for. All the other hospitals use door codes.
 
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Certainly. I dont know of any ER in the area with unsecured ambulance entrance doors, or ER doors of any sort. Anywhere I go patients and visitors either need to be escorted in by staff, or have an access card themself. As well, many of the entrances are manned by guards, to let non-local crews in and attend to the "homeboy ambulances".
 
Since the gate was opened and not damaged then no charges against the cable guy. I'm curious when did cable tv become a essential utility. I can see telephone, electrical, water, and the gas comany as an essential utility but cable tv. What the security guards should have done is contact the cable company to verify that there is a legit work order. After getting confirmation from the cable company they would have let the cable go do what he needed to do.

As I explained earlier. The cable company may not even know he is there. When they are tracking a problem, it can take them over a huge area. They do not call in every time they change locations.

You would not think cable TV is an essential utility, until their TV goes out and they throw a big hissy fit. Most people get more upset when the TV goes out, over when the phone goes out.
 
I'm curious when did cable tv become a essential utility. I can see telephone, electrical, water, and the gas comany as an essential utility but cable tv.

While not an essential utility as you describe, the cable company owns the cables all the way up to the demarcation box on the house, and they have the right to inspect, repair, or work on their property at any time without interference from the homeowners or their representatives.
 
What about cble on armed forces bases. If the cable company has no record of a valid work rder then the gate MPs will not let them in. If they try to blast through the gate of a military base then they may end up getting shot. especially in this day and age and the war on terror.
 
As I explained earlier. The cable company may not even know he is there. When they are tracking a problem, it can take them over a huge area. They do not call in every time they change locations.

You would not think cable TV is an essential utility, until their TV goes out and they throw a big hissy fit. Most people get more upset when the TV goes out, over when the phone goes out.

If the cable company doesn't know where there employees are then it's sloppy management on the part of the cable company.
 
I have never had a problem getting on any Military base. There are certain areas that you must have security clearance to work in. Other then that, no problems. The MP's know what is going on!
 
If the cable company doesn't know where there employees are then it's sloppy management on the part of the cable company.

Man, you need to know the business. You work alone and you may run between areas 20 times, while working on a problem. All the Cable company knows is what area you are in. Has nothing to do with sloppy management. It is part of the job.
 
The 9/11 and Oklahoma City attacks we're for the most part done to make a statement against the government, and the Atlanta bombing was just some nutjob that got his jollys off from detonating a bomb in the middle of a croud. Somehow I don't think any those are interchangeable with detonading a pipe bomb in the Fun in the Sun gated community in Twin Falls, Idaho.

Yeah, who cares if a bunch of adults and kids get blown up in Idaho by terrorists either domestic or foreign.
 
Yeah, who cares if a bunch of adults and kids get blown up in Idaho by terrorists either domestic or foreign.

I think he meant that an attack there is not exactly likely. Terrorists usually go for big targets that get attention. Blowing up a truck in the middle of a culdesac and maybe damaging a few cars sitting in driveways with shrapnel would get a couple news snippet mentions and maybe a week in the "crawl" at the bottom of the screen. Not what they are going for.
 
What about cble on armed forces bases. If the cable company has no record of a valid work rder then the gate MPs will not let them in. If they try to blast through the gate of a military base then they may end up getting shot. especially in this day and age and the war on terror.

We need to get back on topic here, but just to clarify one point...MP's are Military POLICE, with all powers associated with being law enforcement. Security guards are NOT the police. Also, most utility companies that work on a military base have one or two people pre-cleared with the proper authorizations to get on to the base.
 
I thought this thread was about security guards over stepping their bounds? These are all examples of that, so it is on topic with the thread, correct?
 
I think he meant that an attack there is not exactly likely. Terrorists usually go for big targets that get attention. Blowing up a truck in the middle of a culdesac and maybe damaging a few cars sitting in driveways with shrapnel would get a couple news snippet mentions and maybe a week in the "crawl" at the bottom of the screen. Not what they are going for.

You might be surprised at some of the places that are listed as possible targets.

While Idaho may not have a World Trade Center, a well placed bomb could do serious damage and cause death especially if others feel it can not happen to their area or some don't care about such areas to consider those lives valuable.

Back to the topic, just like EMS, each state may have its own standards and regulatrions for Security Guards. You can have poorly educated Security Guards just like you can have poorly educated EMT(P)s. Those in EMS get upset when someone questions their decisions and constantly complain about the low wages. Those working as Security Guards face many of the same issues. Also in common, not many in either group may take the initiative to advance through education and may have the same excuses why they can't obtain a better education.
 
Wow... so much hating on Security Officers.... and Guards :)

I've worked as a Security Officer/EMT, off and on, for about 5 years. I've worked in office complexes, worked for the local hospital, and currently work at a steel mill.

Any GOOD security operation has a VERY thick procedure manual that says what they can and can't do. These manuals aren’t written overnight, and contain LOTS of stuff. A few points here – sometimes the officer will get his wires crossed and mix up steps between two infrequently used policies (like getting the names of every responder for a break-in, but only getting apparatus numbers for a fire alarm). These rules are usually approved by the lawyer folks, as well as upper management and back up what the officers do. Further, if security is sub-contracted, the security company and “client” management agree on these rules.



A note about the gates you see in many places. Often, they are DESIGNED to break away on impact, with pre-scored plastic hardware that breaks off when enough force is applied - so if you drive through it, it will tick them off, but not cause property damage. One local gated community gives out remote openers for their gates to PD/FD/EMS, but also tells them that they can crash the gate if the remote doesn't work... just let them know afterwards so they can replace the gate arm.


I've worked with some folks who tried to micromanage everything and wanted everyone’s names for everything... If you can, leave the situation, then report it up the chain, and it should be dealt with. Worst case, give the name, then make a stink about it.

As for the RN who got ticked when her patient had to be searched? Tough. Many hospitals are locking doors and/or searching folks.

Also, recognize that many security folks really are trying to help, even if in a misguided way (at least in your perspective). Try to get them to help you; don't be adversarial with them if you can avoid it.
/

I've been lucky to work in situations where I interacted positively with EMS and PD... At the hospital, the local PD backed us up with REALLY disruptive patients, but otherwise we were on our own. We also made an effort to assist the officers who came in with subjects in custody for DUI blood draws. The draws were done at triage, right across the ER lobby from our office, so we'd stand so that we could watch what happened... as the officers were always alone, and they had to take their prisoner out of cuffs for the draw. As a whole, they appreciated the extra set of eyes and hands.

At the office complex, we were the medical first responders, so we would have care initiated prior to EMS arrival. Further, we had a procedure in place for a vehicle escort for arriving PD/EMS vehicles. Additionally, we monitored our own campus fire alarms, so we cleared AFA's without them ever going to the FD... they were just fine with that.




As for licensesure. I am trained as a "lethal weapons agent"... I can carry a firearm for employment. That is the only level of license in PA - There is no minimum training for unarmed guards... the company may be required to have fingerprints on file. As Vent points out, there are many folks who seek training inside and outside of employment, and are great folks. And there are folks who do less than a bump on a log.

Additionally, some of the security companies out there have VERY big training programs, covering everything from the legal points of when you can and can't make a citizens arrest and how to fill out their paperwork correctly to advanced supervision workshops. And some of the fly-by-night places have no training whatsover.
 
I think the RN had a valid reason for getting upset. The patient was intubted and unconscious after all. If the patient had been conscious, or the flight crew didn't have IDs, so the identity of the whole group was in question I would understand it better.
 
As for the RN who got ticked when her patient had to be searched? Tough. Many hospitals are locking doors and/or searching folks.

Also, recognize that many security folks really are trying to help, even if in a misguided way (at least in your perspective). Try to get them to help you; don't be adversarial with them if you can avoid it.

Hey, Jon, not hating on ALL security guards (99% of the ones I've encountered at hospitals, and elsewhere are great), but, there's the crop at the particular hospital that are, um, well, I guess DENSE is the best way to describe them. Yes, we all understand when we go in there, names are taken and patients are searched. But it shouldn't take the providers 5-10 minutes to convince the guard of the patient's name. It shouldn't take the guard having to walk out to look at the side of your rig to convince them of the name of your company, and they SHOULD be looking at you enough during this extremely long interaction, to recognize you when you come BACK out to clean and put your gurney away so that they're not trying to get yet another patient name out of you.

I have had 1 smooth entrance at this particular hospital. The guard handed over the board, let us put down the name of the patient, and the company, while he wanded the patient, and in we went, simple.
 
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