Salary

[RocketMedic]

I do it for free.... I'm a volunteer, I have a regular job to pay the bills.

How would you feel about volunteers in your regular job?

 

[Robert Canady]

Volunteers do it from the heart. I don't have a problem with them...it's where I started.

 

[NomadicMedic]

How would you feel about volunteers in your regular job?

I don't have a problem if volunteers are the only service and the community can't, or won't, support paid EMS. However… I feel that the educational and competency requirements to become and remain a satisfactory level ALS provider is more than most volunteers are willing or able to commit to.

I also have a problem when volunteers offer to do my job for free.

When people ask me why I am against volunteer ALS providers, I ask them, "if you had a brain tumor would you want the guy that does it every day as his career to remove it or the guy who works as a gardener every day and volunteers as a brain surgeon on the weekend to do it?"

Yeah. That's what I thought

 

[JPINFV]

Volunteers do it from the heart. I don't have a problem with them...it's where I started.

...and career do it with their whole body and soul. You know... since their entire life is dependent on doing well at their job.

 

[STXmedic]

Volunteers do it from the heart. I don't have a problem with them...it's where I started.

...and career do it with their whole body and soul. You know... since their entire life is dependent on doing well at their job.

 

[Wheel]

Stolen, thank you

 

[cruiseforever]

Medics start at 19.38.

 

[RocketMedic]

13.71 is a day-1 medic here at EMSA. Im at Step 2, which in OKC is a base rate of 15.36/hr. Tulsa pays 18% more, is on a rotating schedule with a 42-hour work week.

 

[Rialaigh]

I don't have a problem if volunteers are the only service and the community can't, or won't, support paid EMS. However… I feel that the educational and competency requirements to become and remain a satisfactory level ALS provider is more than most volunteers are willing or able to commit to.

I also have a problem when volunteers offer to do my job for free.

When people ask me why I am against volunteer ALS providers, I ask them, "if you had a brain tumor would you want the guy that does it every day as his career to remove it or the guy who works as a gardener every day and volunteers as a brain surgeon on the weekend to do it?"

Yeah. That's what I thought

Several comments on this post...

1.

I don't have a problem if volunteers are the only service and the community can't, or won't, support paid EMS. However… I feel that the educational and competency requirements to become and remain a satisfactory level ALS provider is more than most volunteers are willing or able to commit to.

If your problem with volunteers is the educational and competency requirements then we are talking about a much larger issue. You should still have a problem with them in under-served communities that cannot afford pay staff because the quality of service is still not up to par (making huge generalizations).

2.

I also have a problem when volunteers offer to do my job for free.

If your problem with volunteers is that they are offering to do a job for free that you get paid to do then clearly your primary concern is your salary and not the medical well being and service of those that EMS serves. If your in this for the money then your either very very good at your job and compensated as such or your not very good at picking careers

3.

When people ask me why I am against volunteer ALS providers, I ask them, "if you had a brain tumor would you want the guy that does it every day as his career to remove it or the guy who works as a gardener every day and volunteers as a brain surgeon on the weekend to do it?"

Yeah. That's what I thought

This is such an apples and oranges situation that it's not even close. I know volunteer agencies that run 10 times the amount of call as paid agencies near here. I know volunteers that see more cardiac arrests and trauma's in 24 hours volunteering then some paid guys see in a month (on average). I know volunteers that are part of "progressive agencies" and practice critical care skills far more often then a lot of paid guys who cannot do it at all.

Aside from the fact that frequently medics that volunteer at agencies are either working full time for one or two other agencies (and thus generally see decently high call volume as well as are very dedicated to their profession). Or they are a nurse/md/respiratory therapist/some other medical professional, and they have an increased understanding and knowledge of the healthcare system and the way and ability to treat patients.



I think volunteer BLS is much much much worse then volunteer ALS. A lot of the fire department guys (not picking on them) picked up their EMT-B because they were required for their job, they got it in a 6 week crash course with a basically gaurunteed pass if they showed up for class....




To comment on the salary portion our medics here (running 10's at 12's) start at about 16 at the highest paying area 9-1-1. IFT starts at about 16 as well. We have some local small counties that run 24/72 and their medics start at 12.

 

[usalsfyre]

This is such an apples and oranges situation that it's not even close. I know volunteer agencies that run 10 times the amount of call as paid agencies near here.

I call malarkey. If we're talking cities of comparable size there's no way.

TI know volunteers that see more cardiac arrests and trauma's in 24 hours volunteering then some paid guys see in a month (on average).

Again, malarkey. This is the kind of stuff volunteers LOVE to throw out, but there usually talking about a large city that happens to be covered by volleys vs a smaller rural paid agency. As much of an apples to oranges comparison as the brain surgeon stuff above. In addition there are VERY few places where the an average medic consistently sees multiple traumas and/or arrest a shift. VERY few...

TI know volunteers that are part of "progressive agencies" and practice critical care skills far more often then a lot of paid guys who cannot do it at all.

I don't know of one volunteer critical care transport program in the US. Not one. There's one "flight program" staffed by volunteers (a PD aircraft that takes a volunteer medic on medical flights) but I hesitate to include that one because one it's not a primary medical aircraft and two the need to fly a patient in that area is nearly non-existent.

Volunteer ALS is a relic of days gone by. It's time to move past it. I was a new EMT-B at the mercy of volunteer medics, I ended up running a lot of things I had no business running. As a profession it's time to move on.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Several comments on this post... if your problem with volunteers is the educational and competency requirements then we are talking about a much larger issue. You should still have a problem with them in under-served communities that cannot afford pay staff because the quality of service is still not up to par (making huge generalizations).

Nope. I have issues that many volunteer medics lack the sheer volume of calls that build competency. Maryland is a perfect example of this.

if your problem with volunteers is that they are offering to do a job for free that you get paid to do then clearly your primary concern is your salary and not the medical well being and service of those that EMS serves. If your in this for the money then your either very very good at your job and compensated as such or your not very good at picking careers

Yep. I am concerned with my salary. I work as a paramedic to support my family and pay my bills. Why can't I be concerned about my pay as well as those I serve. And, I am pretty good at what I do... and I picked a service that pays well in an area with a low cost of living. So, I'd guess I'm pretty good at picking careers, too.

this is is such an apples and oranges situation that it's not even close. I know volunteer agencies that run 10 times the amount of call as paid agencies near here. I know volunteers that see more cardiac arrests and trauma's in 24 hours volunteering then some paid guys see in a month (on average). I know volunteers that are part of "progressive agencies" and practice critical care skills far more often then a lot of paid guys who cannot do it at all.

And I know a guy who claims he can sing just like John Lennon. That doesn't make him a rock star. Who cares if "you know volunteers that run a lot of calls"? That's no argument, it's just anecdotal blather.

Show me that volunteer EMS providers exceed the number of con ed hours required by professional agencies. Show me that volunteer ALS first pass intubation rates are on par with professional career ALS agencies. Show me cardiac arrest statistics that prove volunteer ALS providers do it better than career medics.

 

[chaz90]

Most of the time a post is removed it's because it was offensive to the community at large, contributed nothing useful, or was deliberately inflammatory. Don't be that guy.

 

[STXmedic]

Too late.... :unsure:

 

[ffemt8978]

Too late.... :unsure:

And then some.

 

[RocketMedic]

I have learned that my time is most definitely worth something, and professionals value their time in money, not in nebulous satisfaction.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

I have learned that my time is most definitely worth something, and professionals value their time in money, not in nebulous satisfaction.

+1 to this

 

[Trashtruck]

Yeah!

If you want this(Me)...pay me.

 

[Arovetli]

Yeah!

If you want this(Me)...pay me.

i think though, there are too many willing to work for less than you, or 10 people willing to live their life on an ambulance, thinking they are moving up in the world by raking in tons of overtime on an $8/hr base rate.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Exactly. When people complain that "we're lifesavers and we're not paid enough!" I remind them that EMTs and Paramedics are a dime a dozen and the pay is based on economy of scale. If there's bunches of people who will work for 8 bucks and hour there's not logic in paying one penny more than that.

That's one reason paramedic pay in King County is so good. They control the supply and create their own demand.

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

While that is true it is no different then nursing and there wages are not so disproportionately low.

Nurses are a dime a dozen even more so then paramedics so I really don't believe that is a valid argument. i love volunteers but they are the reason career EMS staff are paid so little