EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

[Veneficus]

Wooden ships and iron men

One of the first things my original EMT instructor ever told the class, when discussing ethics on the first day,

"If you ever wonder if you are doing the right thing or not, always ask yourself; how will this look on the 6pm news?"

Probably the most useful thing I learned in EMT class. It is still applicable today.

 

[akflightmedic]

I just wanted to weigh in and state that I have absolutely nothing useful, new or interesting to contribute to this conversation that I did not say 2 years ago.

As you were...

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

With as litigious of a society as we live in, I can't actually go out there and say that I fault them for not acting if they were in fact off duty. The way we get around this PR problem? Our squad carries insurance that covers us while we are on duty, but also anytime we are off duty and in the district, or going to or from being on duty. You have no duty to act while you are off duty, but if you choose to do so, yo are covered under the squad's policy. Ditto for going to or from a shift (which outside of going to or from shift we're not really supposed to be in uniform anyway unless its for some event) so we're basically covered anytime we're uniformed.

 

[Veneficus]

I just wanted to weigh in and state that I have absolutely nothing useful, new or interesting to contribute to this conversation that I did not say 2 years ago.

As you were...

All of our conversations seem to be repeats, somebody was just smart enough to not retype an OP

 

[medic417]

I just wanted to weigh in and state that I have absolutely nothing useful, new or interesting to contribute to this conversation that I did not say 2 years ago.

As you were...

I'll second that.

 

[Tigger]

This is old, but I remember this...

They had NO duty to act.

the duty to act is:

In uniform, Check.
On Duty, Check.
Dispatched to emergency, no.

EMT's duty to act is to go aid the person they are dispatched to aid. that is their job, not to just help any ole joe smoe that wanders up to your bus.

I think you need to review what duty to act means. What saves this pair is that they were not on duty, as DrParasite has noted. If you're in an ambulance and you witness the above, you are likely obligated to act.

 

[zmedic]

I think you need to review what duty to act means. What saves this pair is that they were not on duty, as DrParasite has noted. If you're in an ambulance and you witness the above, you are likely obligated to act.

I think if if you are walking around in uniform you should act like you are on duty. Ie not drinking in uniform, helping if you see someone sick etc. If you don't feel good about that then switch shirts before going into wallmart.

If those two from FDNY had sat there and held the patient's hand until the ambulance came they would have been called heros. It doesn't really matter if they were technically right, that they weren't on duty. Even if you are within in the letter of the rules if you do something that embarrasses the department you should expect to be in trouble.

 

[Medico]

ya know... I was watching "cops" the other day and he made a great point. He was saying (im paraphrasing)... "even when I'm off duty, I'm still a cop. When I'm eating out at a restaraunt with my family, i always sit facing the door because i want to see whats coming".

I think this should be applicable to all FD and EMS as well. Once your an EMT and "have training" that "could save" someone life... why not use it. I understand that a lot of EMS has the "off the clock, not my problem" mentality... or maybe the "i'm not getting sued today" mentality, But even with those in our minds, we have to understand that hopefully the government will CYA, and that witnesses will be there to back you up. It's a touchy subject, but in my opinion... all LEO,FD, and EMS are "on the clock 24/7" whether or not we are wearing our uniform.

If I'm off duty not in uniform I'm not helping. I'm not going to risk being sued because I "hope" the government is watching. The government likes to make examples and I won't be one. I work to hard for my house, vehicle, and education to lose it. There is a on duty medic who would love the call.

 

[Tigger]

I think if if you are walking around in uniform you should act like you are on duty. Ie not drinking in uniform, helping if you see someone sick etc. If you don't feel good about that then switch shirts before going into wallmart.

If those two from FDNY had sat there and held the patient's hand until the ambulance came they would have been called heros. It doesn't really matter if they were technically right, that they weren't on duty. Even if you are within in the letter of the rules if you do something that embarrasses the department you should expect to be in trouble.

I was merely pointing out that one poster had posted something that was not correct. Those three bullet points he wrote do not constitute duty to act.

Legally, being that they were not on duty, this pair was not obligated to act, correct? If they were don't you suppose that the investigation might have turned out differently? How can one get in trouble with the department if they don't violate any of the department's rules? If FDNY wanted to prevent this situation they very could have had their department policy stating that uniformed members are obligated to act regardless if they are on or off duty. I know of places that do in fact have this policy.

As I am sure you well know legally sound =/= morally sound.

 

[DrParasite]

I think if if you are walking around in uniform you should act like you are on duty. Ie not drinking in uniform, helping if you see someone sick etc. If you don't feel good about that then switch shirts before going into wallmart.

If I am on a break, and technically off duty, and I leave my dispatch center, I will either carry a portable with me (agency spare given out for just this reason), or go incognito (with my jacket that has NO identifying marks).

I have gone to the corner market near my home wearing my agency jacket, or my FD job shirt. Off duty, usually to get milk or a quick bite to eat. It happened to be in the back of my car, and it was cold out.

If those two from FDNY had sat there and held the patient's hand until the ambulance came they would have been called heros.

maybe. or, as I said before, they would have been vilified by the family, the public, and the media for having two highly trained medical professionals who literally stood by and did NOTHING, while a pregnant lady died; all they did was hold her hand as she died without them doing something. You think this will be a good headline to sell papers: "two FDNY EMTs do nothing as pregnant mother dies right in front of them"?

It doesn't really matter if they were technically right, that they weren't on duty. Even if you are within in the letter of the rules if you do something that embarrasses the department you should expect to be in trouble.

I'm sorry, but you can't punish someone for being right, even if it is just due to a technicality.

They embarrassed the department, yes, but they broke no rules, and their embarrassment might not even be accurate; it's all based on conflicting stories, hearsay on what happened, and everyone jumping on the bandwagon and feeding off the emotional outrage of what might not have happened as reported by the NY daily rags.

She's back on the job; I think it's far to say they found her not guilty of doing anything wrong. Imagine that, after an investigation as conducted, and the facts were reviewed, the person was given her job back.

Shame the media didn't wait until the investigation was completed before publicly finding these two guilty of misconduct and letting this girl die. but of course, that wouldn't sell as many papers as the headline "EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die" and that is the goal of the daily rags, to sell as many papers as possible, regardless of if the facts are accurate