EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

I wonder exactly what the patches on their uniforms were. Did they say "EMT" Or "EMT-Dispatcher".

I also don't think they could be charged with manslaughter. I think the prosecutor would have to prove that the reason the lady died is because they didn't assist her, and I think that would be very hard for them to prove.

I also am curious what the staff said to people. Did they say something general like "She is sick" or something specific like "She collapsed and won't wake up".

Honestly, if I am off duty the only time I will offer assistance is if the person is in respiratory or cardiac arrest. If someone just said "the person is sick" I wouldn't offer assistance either.

This situation really illustrates that is moral isn't always what is legally required to happen.
 
zmedic said:
Not sure what the law says, but when I took my EMT they told us that if we were rocking around with EMT stickers or wearing a tee shirt with the big EMT on the back we'd better be ready to render care since we were announcing to the world our training.
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thats a +1
 
I was told that if we displayed anything showing our certification status and someone asked us for help we were obligated to help. Fire/EMS stuff that didn't have your specific certification level on it didn't count.

So a T-shirt with a plain star of life didn't count but a "New York EMT" t-shirt would.
 
Aidey said:
I was told that if we displayed anything showing our certification status and someone asked us for help we were obligated to help. Fire/EMS stuff that didn't have your specific certification level on it didn't count.

So a T-shirt with a plain star of life didn't count but a "New York EMT" t-shirt would.
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many people walk around in clothing they should not be wearing. FDNY and NYPD apparrel are pawned off like NY Knicks or Yankees jersey's.

Anyway these guys were in uniform not t-shirts.
 
To be honest, I think people are just trying to make it sound like NY EMS is heartless. In two articles, it made them sound like paramedics when it turns out they are really dispatchers. In all three articles, it seems iffy to me whether it would be a situation that I would even take seriously. Hell, even the dispatched unit didn't think it was a serious call until they arrived.

At 9:13 a.m., two other EMTs, William Martinez and Robert Suarez, were dispatched from Long Island College Hospital and arrived at 9:24 a.m. to what they believed was a noncritical call.
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My friends and family know that I am going to be taking an EMT class in February, that I've already taken a First Responder course and certified AHA CPR, they'll go to me for all sorts of medical issue, ask me medical questions as if I was a doctor, I will brush them off telling them "I don't know. Go to a doctor" or something similar to that, and they'll say "What kind of EMT do you plan to be?", "Wow, you're gonna be an EMT and don't want to help me", or some other way to put me down. Sometimes when you do have an answer, they still don't like it. My dad had a seizure awhile ago so my mom asked me what to do during a seizure, and I told her to call 9-1-1, don't restrain them, if they are on hard surface: hold their arms, but allow movement still (just prevent them from hitting their elbows), and put your shoes/feet under their head (to prevent them from hitting their head). Be prepared to do rescue breathing after the seizure has stopped (not to bother when they are still seizing - even if turning cyanotic). She got mad at me because I didn't tell her how to treat during a seizure, and no matter how much times I tried to explain that there really isn't anything you can do (at my level of training), she kept saying the previous comments I said "You're heartless", "I can't believe you plan on being an EMT if you don't want to help people", etc....

I'd put my money on the bystanders being like my mom. I'd bet they even approached the dispatchers saying "There is a women who isn't feeling too well. Can you help her?" or something very ambiguous, vague, or doesn't sound so serious. They were probably even taught like me to do only up to the level of your training, and remember your duty to call.

I think the best thing that could've happened in this situation is if dispatchers made a brief distinction between dispatchers and EMTs, but stuck around before I was given the que to leave just to give all the bystanders and the patient some comfort/assist the EMTs with whatever, which I am not sure if the patient was SOB while the dispatchers were there, if she was even around them, or if she was seizing already. Maybe ask my supervisor for an extended break and tell them what happened. That's just me.

Personally I think they shouldn't be punished (even if immoral - I don't think anyone should be obligated to do something off duty), but on a technical level, think they are screwed since they were in uniform that hinted training (even if they don't have training).
 
So we have to uniformed dispatchers who are certifed as EMT-Bs. But they do not work as EMT-Bs. Walking off with breakfast probably wasn't the best move. However what was is it they were to do? No ambulance. Mo equipment. If they stayed, we would be hearing how they did nothing. They probably should have called 911 themselves.
 
with no equipment you can still open an airway, perform chest compressions, or even stand off to the side and dictate to others what to do.
 
These two EMT's/dispatchers displayed a total disregard for human life by walking away without offering even the slightest bit of assistance. Even if they weren't able to directly intervene without any equipment, they could have at least kept the airway open and advised the incoming Medic unit of conditions so the crew could start to get mentally prepared for a critical patient.

It was very wrong no matter which way you look at it.
 
If it truly was a seizure, and it lead to cardiac arrest, that means it was most likely status epilepticus, meaning there isn't a darn thing those dispatchers could have done without any drugs or equipment.


I love how people say maintain the airway... The problem isn't the airway, it's the breathing that ceases during a seizure.


They had no BVM. They had no pocket mask. I sure as hell wont hold them accountable for not giving mouth-to-mouth.
 
kittaypie said:
with no equipment you can still open an airway, perform chest compressions, or even stand off to the side and dictate to others what to do.
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provided that she coded while they were there.
 
"I remember them saying they couldn't do anything because they were on their break," another worker said. "We started screaming and cursing at them."
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That reaction really didn't help their plea for assistance.

If there's a group of people screaming and cursing at me and my partner, I would be seriously considering backing out of there.

I keep reading multiple articles on this and everyone says something different happened, including what happened to the woman that died. It's easy to sit here and make judgments, but I don't see us knowing what actually transpired any time soon, if ever.
 
I agree, the number of versions of this story is making it very difficult to understand what happened. There is also little reliable information on what was actually said by who and when.

People have complained the 2 said they were on break. As we all know, everyone has selective memory.

In reality a bystander could have heard them chatting in line talking about their break before the incident.
After the incident it could be turned into the bystander hearing "I'm not helping, I'm on break". Especially after the story passes through a few people and a journalist.

There is also the question of what did the staff actually say when they asked for help. As I mentioned earlier, there is a huge difference between "Someone is sick" and "she collapsed and we can't wake her up".
 
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Putting aside the various versions of what happened (this includes what was actually happening to the lady initially) and any moral/ethical/legal obligation to act, this is one of those situations in which you almost have to do something, even if you know it's only going to be for appearances sake. Whether or not they were duty-bound to do something, they still had a uniform on that is widely recognized by the general public as being worn by someone with medical training (even if that isn't actually true). Public perception is something that, often unfortunately, plays a part in what we do, and standing by will cause this type of reaction. Some type of action would have helped, even if it was only walking over to the lady and calling 911 from right next to her.

The same thing happened in the UK awhile back; a paramedic was on his lunch break (during which they are NOT obligated in any way to respond) in his ambulance when someone walked up asking for help. He refused and eventually the person died. I don't know what the final outcome was for him, but it's a PR nightmare.
 
triemal04 said:
The same thing happened in the UK awhile back; a paramedic was on his lunch break (during which they are NOT obligated in any way to respond) in his ambulance when someone walked up asking for help. He refused and eventually the person died. I don't know what the final outcome was for him, but it's a PR nightmare.
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If you mean this story, no one died, and the paramedic was let off (presumably for following company policy and procedure :wacko:).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...used-help-man-broken-lunch-break-let-off.html

I agree with the rest of your post - the uniform is a BS magnet, but sometimes that BS turns out to be genuine. I am another one who rarely wears uniform off-duty.
 
as a member of the FDNY we have been getting bashed by the public for this and the story we are getting is that the two were dispatchers on a break and one called 911 then the ambualnce who showed up didnt have an equipment with them.

now they should have stayed and they could have done compressions.the stupid part is that they could have easily just called upstairs to the disptachers office told them whats going on and someone could have ran downstairs with equipment and they would have gotten als,bls fire pd and a conditions boss to the scene much faster and that girl would be alive

now no one really knows what was said to the dispatchers.if the public said hey theres a sick lady in the back then the answer "call 911" is appropriate but they should have atleast gone to see what the problem is.

i love wearing my job sweatshirt outside.its warm and im proud of what i do for a living.even when im not in uniform if i see someone who is in distress i stop and help because thats what im trained to do and if there is nothing i can do best belive i can get an ambulance there faster than a layperson.
 
Aprz said:
My friends and family know that I am going to be taking an EMT class in February, that I've already taken a First Responder course and certified AHA CPR, they'll go to me for all sorts of medical issue, ask me medical questions as if I was a doctor, I will brush them off telling them "I don't know. Go to a doctor" or something similar to that, and they'll say "What kind of EMT do you plan to be?", "Wow, you're gonna be an EMT and don't want to help me", or some other way to put me down. Sometimes when you do have an answer, they still don't like it. My dad had a seizure awhile ago so my mom asked me what to do during a seizure, and I told her to call 9-1-1, don't restrain them, if they are on hard surface: hold their arms, but allow movement still (just prevent them from hitting their elbows), and put your shoes/feet under their head (to prevent them from hitting their head). Be prepared to do rescue breathing after the seizure has stopped (not to bother when they are still seizing - even if turning cyanotic). She got mad at me because I didn't tell her how to treat during a seizure, and no matter how much times I tried to explain that there really isn't anything you can do (at my level of training), she kept saying the previous comments I said "You're heartless", "I can't believe you plan on being an EMT if you don't want to help people", etc....
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Sucks to do the right thing - maybe you need to educate your friends more, or choose 'better' ones than ones looking for some "way to put you down"...
 
Yea People sometimes just dont understand things that we do.

To the first story. I read that they were two dispatchers but even if they were EMTs and they were "off duty" Ive been taught that you have no legal obligation to help them. Note I said legal. Now one person said it well about the cop - who is always on duty . I am the exact same way . i dont care if its 2am and im in my pj's tank top and sweats ,and a neighbor asks for help, I am going., No bra and all haha

i personally think that if you have the correct up to date knowledge of the correct things to do you should do it. period.
I once was jogging and not to share too much info, but i was in a tank top and a bra, and no ladies, it wasnt a sports bra- that would have been better than the one I was wearing I assure you LOL Anyways I come across someone who was just hit by a car and bleeding bad. So i instinctively take off my shirt to apply pressure. The medics show up and I am being as professional as I can be with the girl in a bra and shorts explaining what happened. haha
My point is, I think no matter what - if you can help and not cause more harm than good, then you should , but thats just my own personal opinion.
 
ffemt8978 said:
According to the last paragraph of the article


Why wasn't an autopsy done in the first place?:blink:
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NYC examiner may require family approval. the deceased was not murdered or in an accident.
 
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