EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

[VentMedic]

There's probably more to this story but a lesson can still be learned from it. When you are in uniform, either on or off duty, be careful what you say and do or how you say and do something. Those who like to wear some type of EMT patch or shirt 24/7 may fall under scrutiny some day and may not even be aware of it. You do get noticed regardless of all those who say the public doesn't know who you are. They know what EMT means even if they don't know every little skill you can do.

EMT duo on break let pregnant mom die

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/..._mom_die_mrj8Jv8kjmS0Z3FNO4DmiL#ixzz0aH3OguQm


A pregnant Brooklyn woman suffering a fatal seizure in a coffee shop in the shadow of FDNY Headquarters was ignored by two callous city medics who continued to buy their breakfast, eyewitnesses told The Post.
"The EMTs just said we had to call 911. They got their bagels and left," said a disgusted worker.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/..._mom_die_mrj8Jv8kjmS0Z3FNO4DmiL#ixzz0aLBEsaQm


The comments below the article are also interesting.

 

[VentMedic]

Another article today:

Brooklyn mother rips 'heartless' EMTs who are accused of refusing to help her dying daughter
BY Simone Weichselbaum and Jonathan Lemire
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Monday, December 21st 2009, 4:00 AM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local..._callous_emts_as_heartless.html#ixzz0aLDesFP0

Interesting quote:

The two EMTs were placed on modified duty and are barred from providing patient care, FDNY officials said. Reports of their inaction infuriated Mayor Bloomberg.

"It was unconscionable," said Bloomberg. "But even if they weren't part of the Fire Department sworn to protect all of us, just normal human beings, drop your coffee and go help somebody if they're dying. Come on."

And more from the Mayor:

Mayor Rips EMTs who refused to help dying pregnant mother

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/mike_rips_emts_in_preg_mom_death_5d0UDQYANcSrLDN4ZnqitI

 

[rhan101277]

Well they will probably for sure be getting sued at least, maybe even charged. As long as they are working and in uniform they have a duty to act. Not acting is the same as abandonment i believe.

 

[EMSLaw]

Some of the comments seem to indicate these two were dispatchers. I'm curious to hear the rest of the story. There has to be more to it.

 

[VentMedic]

Some of the comments seem to indicate these two were dispatchers. I'm curious to hear the rest of the story. There has to be more to it.

If you are in the same room with a person having a seizure and you are on duty, do you need to be dispatched to walk across the room?

Of course, there are EMS situations where your station sits on the opposite side of the street from an emergency and you may not be able to cross the road to offer assistance. This is also a big issue with some FDs.

 

[EMSLaw]

If you are in the same room with a person having a seizure and you are on duty, do you need to be dispatched to walk across the room?

Of course, there are EMS situations where your station sits on the opposite side of the street from an emergency and you may not be able to cross the road to offer assistance. This is also a big issue with some FDs.

I'm not familiar with the level of training that FDNY dispatchers have. If they are trained to even the First Responder level, they should have helped.

But as I said, I'd rather hear the full story rather than rushing to judgment.

 

[rhan101277]

Even some layman went to help, it shouldn't matter the level of education. The dispatchers were more qualified than Joe Bagel.

 

[VentMedic]

With the attitude they allegedly displayed in the coffee house, they probably would have given the same courtesy on the phone when dispatching.

 

[46Young]

When my cousins were on with FDNY EMS, they were dispatchers for a time. All dispatchers were required to be either EMT's or medics at the time. I don't know what dispatchers are nowadays. On FH.com there was a discussion about the inadequacies of dispatching nowadays, and that there were civilians with no prior fire, police, or EMS training whatsoever. I'll find the thread later. If these dispatchers were merely civillians, they would have no medical training whatsoever. But anyone with a little common sense could give some type of aid to a seizing pt. If the dispatchers had any first aid/EMS training whatsoever, they should have the book thrown at them in court.

I know that here, in Fairfax County, the dispatchers only need to be EMD, with no training past a CPR card. It shows with their dispatching.

 

[DV_EMT]

ya know... I was watching "cops" the other day and he made a great point. He was saying (im paraphrasing)... "even when I'm off duty, I'm still a cop. When I'm eating out at a restaraunt with my family, i always sit facing the door because i want to see whats coming".

I think this should be applicable to all FD and EMS as well. Once your an EMT and "have training" that "could save" someone life... why not use it. I understand that a lot of EMS has the "off the clock, not my problem" mentality... or maybe the "i'm not getting sued today" mentality, But even with those in our minds, we have to understand that hopefully the government will CYA, and that witnesses will be there to back you up. It's a touchy subject, but in my opinion... all LEO,FD, and EMS are "on the clock 24/7" whether or not we are wearing our uniform.

 

[VentMedic]

all LEO,FD, and EMS are "on the clock 24/7" whether or not we are wearing our uniform.

Check with your company's policy for off duty. They may not take too kindly to you representing them off duty and then trying to collect insurance and Workmen's comp on their policies if you are injured. However, for those in Public Safety such as FD, LE and some EMS agencies it may be different. Also a few states do recognize EMS for benefits in certain situations. However, if you do something stupid, expect to left hanging.

 

[46Young]

ya know... I was watching "cops" the other day and he made a great point. He was saying (im paraphrasing)... "even when I'm off duty, I'm still a cop. When I'm eating out at a restaraunt with my family, i always sit facing the door because i want to see whats coming".

I think this should be applicable to all FD and EMS as well. Once your an EMT and "have training" that "could save" someone life... why not use it. I understand that a lot of EMS has the "off the clock, not my problem" mentality... or maybe the "i'm not getting sued today" mentality, But even with those in our minds, we have to understand that hopefully the government will CYA, and that witnesses will be there to back you up. It's a touchy subject, but in my opinion... all LEO,FD, and EMS are "on the clock 24/7" whether or not we are wearing our uniform.

That's the problem, MAYBE you'll be protected if you help and something goes wrong that's out of your control, or someone's looking to make a fast buck off of you. Some states' Good Sam laws don't cover EMS/first responders who render aid while off duty. Not exactly a good incentive to help when I'm off the clock. There's a saying that no good deed goes unpunished.

Me personally, when I'm off duty I don't wear anything identifying myself as a FD employee or any EMS affiliation. If someone is choking, goes unconscious, or drops dead in front of me, I'll help without hesitation. I won't identify myself as EMS however. If I'm asked for my demographics for any reason, I'll ask that I remain anonymous. If the EMS crew or PD insist, I'll then give my personal info.

If someone injured themselves, I'll be hesitant to help unless they're bleeding out or need spinal motion restriction. If they're bleeding I'll direct others to do bleeding control, as I don't carry gloves on me. I'll also hold C-spine, so I'm not asked to manipulate the pt in any way until EMS can take over.

I also feel that I shouldn't be obligated to stop on a highway when I'm with my family to check things out. I'm not cool with leaving my family at risk of being railed by another car while parked as I'm assessing the situation. Even if I'm alone, there's no apparatus blocking the scene, and I don't carry road flares or a traffic vest, maybe just my bunkers in case I nab some OT during my break. Get injured off duty, even to help, affords you less protection (medical, financial) than if something were to happen on duty.

You can thank today's litigous society for my current viewpoints. I'm from NY where everyone is looking to make a fast buck off of you in court. Break ribs during a Heimlich or successful CPR and get sued. Do a rapid extrication for a justifiable reason (car on fire, bleeding out, etc.) and get sued for paralyzing the pt (even if the CNS was already compromised).

Anyway, field FDNY EMS don't get real meal breaks to my knowledge, only a "10-100" which is a 20 min break where they'll be "less recommended" but still available by radio and still have a duty to act, regardless.

 

[Scott33]

all LEO,FD, and EMS are "on the clock 24/7" whether or not we are wearing our uniform.

Not true.

Big difference between a moral, and a legal, duty of care.

 

[nomofica]

Anyway, field FDNY EMS don't get real meal breaks to my knowledge, only a "10-100" which is a 20 min break where they'll be "less recommended" but still available by radio and still have a duty to act, regardless.

This is what my service has at the moment.

 

[guardian528]

I'm not familiar with the level of training that FDNY dispatchers have

Witnesses have said the two EMTs -- trained medics working as dispatchers at FDNY headquarters at Metrotech --

this is from one of the articles, but i'm curious to find out what training they actually have, as here they used 'medic' and 'emt' interchangeably, and the media frequently uses blanket terms like 'medic' to describe anyone associated with ems. so i'm interested to see if they are actually emt's, medics, or just have emd or something

 

[CAOX3]

all LEO,FD, and EMS are "on the clock 24/7" whether or not we are wearing our uniform.

Says who?

 

[DV_EMT]

Says who?

says Me.... thats who!

 

[46Young]

says Me.... thats who!

Damn, I've been in the game for 7+ years now. If I've been on the clock 24/7 for all that time, surely I'm due thousands upon thousands of dollars plus interest. If you're on call, which is when you're off duty but required to render aid if needed, surely there would be a small hourly stipend provided to compensate for that?

We all get plenty of action at work. Unless someone's likely to die, or freshly dead, my time off duty is for me to do as I choose, within the confines of the law. If that law actually does mandate me to help off duty, then my decision is already made for me. Many places don't. If I want to help for free, I'll volunteer.

 

[CAOX3]

says Me.... thats who!

That right there is some funny stuff.

 

[DV_EMT]

Look... here's my rational for everyone being on duty 24/7

1. EMS is Emergency Medical Services... I'm not talking put a band aid on a boo boo type stuff... but if someone is in a life threatening position, AND I have the necessary tools to help prevent a death... I'm gonna stop and help or get the necessary personnel there to help.

2. Legal Mumbo Jumbo - IF I decide to help someone, I know the following.... A. ) I am automatically emancipating myself from any agency or affiliation when I help the person. B. ) I understand the risks associated with helping this person (i.e. HIV, Oncoming Traffic, or a Potentially Violent PT). C. ) I know that The Good Samaritan Law will cover me for the treatment that I have or will render to the Pt.

3. I'd feel really guilty if I just stood there and did nothing while the Pt's condition declined to a state that... in turn... could cause death. I (personally) am a very moral and religious person and would feel awful if I left someone bleeding in a gutter to die when I could have helped.


... but that's just me. I don't know about the rest of the EMT's and Medic's here, but I wouldn't just sit and watch any Pt suffer or die because... it was my break... or i just didn't have time to stop because i'd be late for work.