Armed EMS. How many of you carry?

[medicnick83]

We not allowed to carry 'weapons' but many of us carry 'knives' which double as a knife which is used to cut like seat belts etc.

So I'm assuming if they were asked why they have it, it would be the "we use it as a rescue tool" but it can be used for defense.

 

[epipusher]

If we were allowed to carry hand guns, would some ems colleagues hang it from their rear view mirror?

 

[mycrofft]

Locally it used to be that deputy coroners (which could be ANYONE) could get a concealed carry permit because ostensibly they could be on a scene where the bad guys were still hanging out in the crowd of lookie-lous. That got quashed, and no uptick in duty-relared incidnts or deaths as far as I know.

 

[systemet]

We not allowed to carry 'weapons' but many of us carry 'knives' which double as a knife which is used to cut like seat belts etc.

So I'm assuming if they were asked why they have it, it would be the "we use it as a rescue tool" but it can be used for defense.

Just a thought here. Look at where medicnick is working, and go google the crime statistics. Consider for a second that it's considered to be a much nicer city than Johannesburg. Pause. Maybe google the crime statistics for your own region. Compare.

 

[medic417]

Also, in MA you can't carry on school grounds or on federal property. So what would you do if you had to respond to a school or some other such place?

Or states that have binding signage laws? Now you could be liable for criminal trespass.

Ambulance lock box. Not complicated.

 

[DarkStarr]

I would carry if I was allowed. I do wish we were allowed to at least keep a taser locked up with the narcs though.

 

[RocketMedic]

I don't want handguns in the possession of people who are tossed routinely into stressful circumstances without adequate training. That knocks a lot of EMS personnel out.

 

[Steveb]

I'm completely against guns I understand the dangerous that front line EMS face every day I've had co-wokers attacked but all it would take is an untrained trigger happy to discharge a gun at someone. Which would them cause a lot of trust issues with the public viewing EMT's. I however believe in pepper spray and teasers as those are a great non leatheal option . And also in most big cities where the dangers are common you can generally call police back up and they are there fast.But then again in Israel it's a different story.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Ambulance lock box. Not complicated.

Police are exempt. If EMS providers were allowed to carry I'd be willing to bet that we would be exempt as well.

With that said, I do not support EMS providers carrying. No sir.

 

[chief2]

When I pull a night shift my Crossbreed holds a Para Warthog strong side with my uniform shirt tucked in. I know I'm not supposed to and I could lose my EMS certifications for doing it but I'd rather go home alive in one piece and unemployed than have a a civil service flag draped over my coffin and be known as someone who always followed the rules.

 

[texas]

I never carry when I am on a call or at the station. I do carry quite a bit as a civilian.

A few people mentioned combined police/EMS earlier - Highland Park, TX does that. They have you work rotating shifts as a cop, a firefighter, and a paramedic. I have heard that the cops have bunker gear in the trucks of their patrol cars (don't know that for a fact).

Weird to see cops with a paramedic patch...

 

[Handsome Robb]

When I pull a night shift my Crossbreed holds a Para Warthog strong side with my uniform shirt tucked in. I know I'm not supposed to and I could lose my EMS certifications for doing it but I'd rather go home alive in one piece and unemployed than have a a civil service flag draped over my coffin and be known as someone who always followed the rules.

I still want to know how many EMS/FD personnel are killed or severely injured every year in violent crimes while on duty where a firearm would have helped their cause.

I still see absolutely no reason that an EMS provider should be carrying while on duty, if you are in a situation where you need a gun you've done something extremely wrong.

To each their own I guess.

Side note: If you're going to openly talk about violating company policies/rules I wouldn't do it on a public forum...also what happens to your family when you lose your job and no other company will hire you because you violated a "no firearm" policy at a previous place of employment? I'm not trying to be a **** I just fail to see your reasoning.

I work in a less than stellar city, sure it's not the most dangerous by any means but we have plenty of violent crimes every year and spend plenty of time in less than desirable/safe areas.

 

[mycrofft]

Here's an epiphany I just had: insist on safe(r) working environments. No medical response without law enforcement response in designated areas or certain types of calls. That would include an officer riding back in the vehicle if the pt may become or is violent. Another step on the way closer to a more-professional working environment, a little less Dodge City.
.
PS: looking back at a some responses here and elsewhere:

1. Knives: Are you trained, and both physically and psychologically prepared to use a knife to fight someone ? Not a classroom exercise with your sense, but an instantaneous dirty attack? Maybe by a much l;arguer person, under the influence, etc etc?

2. Locking the weapon up: if you had the time for aforethought to go get the hardware, it will be argued that you had the aforethought to retreat or use other means to defuse a life/limb threat.

When anyone is shot by a law officer, lawsuits very often ensue, (pun unintended) and an officer is investigated by the department for job or legal infractions, while on administrative leave. If an EMT were to kill or even injure someone, the investigators will BE the police, then maybe a grand jury. And will the Fraternal Protective Order of EMT's and the company cover for legal bills (even if you win)? I know, better home alive then dead and following rules, but also unless the job and government infrastructure is not there to support for actions, you're just one more civilian "running around" with a weapon asking for trouble.

 

[chief2]

Disheartening to think that some folks believe an armed citizen is "running around asking for trouble". These are the same people who think only the police should have guns, until they need one. When the seconds count the police are minutes away.

I don't need to know what the stats show about any of us killed or severly injured in the line of duty; one is too many. I do agree that we should get a LEO on every call, now convince city hall of the same and I'll leave my gun in my locker. It's pretty sad when the ER physician is wearing a ballistic vest under his shirt in the ER because the powers that be haven't caught up to the culture we're living in. The final statement about what will I do if I can't find a job and so on and so forth, I offer this: See the letters after my name. If I'm not convicted of a F2 or higher I'm keeping my job at my primary employer where propofol and norepinephrine are the most dangerous things I need to keep an eye on.

I can't believe I forgot to mention this tidbit:
Our service is 911 dispatched but, due to the high volumes and number of units in service at any given time, we have our own dispatchers located at our primary base of operations who assign calls based on location and availablility. They are considered our shift supervisors. Their supervisor is the operations manager. A few weeks back he had a supervisor's meeting where he asked if all the evening and night shift sups owned a handgun. They all did. He then asked that, for their "safety and the security of the organization", that they carry concealed while on duty at the front desk and to start keeping the base locked down (no more open garage doors in the summer, exit door to smoking hut locked, etc.). That he didn't offer a specific reason and when questioned he said he "couldn't go into it" just solidifies that I will be carrying.

All of us at the base have received threats because we staged out of a scene on an OD and the pt died while waiting for PD or we were preceived as responding too slow for some gang banger who got stabbed. I'm not going to not stage out but I'm not going to go for a "fall victim" or "dizziness" and get clubbed, stabbed, or shot. (hmm, I guess the reported 20 y/o M fall victim on the side of a house that turned out to be multiple GSW to the ABD was me "doing something extremely wrong" when I walked up on scene).

We've had not 1, not 2, but 3 seperate incidents in the past 5 years where we drew fire. Once was for a trap set by a suspect for police and he opened up on the cops as they arrive on scene. Both officer's were struck and the responding units said the scene was secure and were bringing the officers to us at the corner of X and Y streets. The medic unit was then fired upon and actually fled the scene in reverse and struck a pole. Another was EMS repond along with fire for a structure box that turned into someone shooting at first responders; he was shot by the first arriving officer. Finally we were treating a victim of chid abuse, while the police were in the front room with the victim's mother, the father (and suspect) re-entered the house from the rear via the kitchen, armed himself with a kitchen knife and attempted to abscond with the child who was in the care of EMS in the dining room. PD tasered his ***.

So in your town where the crime consists of 2 drunks duking it out in the street on a Saturday night, DUI crashes with fleeing suspects, and domestic abuse when Bubba slaps his wife again I can see clearly how you may not understand why I would want to carry at work. If I was in your position I'd argue the same point, but I'm not you and you're certainly not me.

 

[DrParasite]

A few weeks back he had a supervisor's meeting where he asked if all the evening and night shift sups owned a handgun. They all did. He then asked that, for their "safety and the security of the organization", that they carry concealed while on duty at the front desk and to start keeping the base locked down (no more open garage doors in the summer, exit door to smoking hut locked, etc.). That he didn't offer a specific reason and when questioned he said he "couldn't go into it" just solidifies that I will be carrying.

so if one of the supervisors was carrying, and did need to use his personal firearm, would the management back him up with the investigation and civil suit occurred? I'm not against securing facilities, but having a supervisory person ask people to carry concealed due to security seems to be a huge liability for an agency to take, especially since they aren't even willing to let those who they are asking to pick up arms know what is going on or why they need to be carrying.

We've had not 1, not 2, but 3 seperate incidents in the past 5 years where we drew fire.

So assuming your agency gets 20 calls a day (probably a very low number if you work for a decent sized agency), that means you had a total of 36500 calls over the past 5 years, and out of those 36500, on 3 you drew fire... that is 0.00821% out of all your calls resulted in you drawing fire. That's a pretty small percentage, especially if you are using that as your justification for carrying.

 

[Tigger]

So assuming your agency gets 20 calls a day (probably a very low number if you work for a decent sized agency), that means you had a total of 36500 calls over the past 5 years, and out of those 36500, on 3 you drew fire... that is 0.00821% out of all your calls resulted in you drawing fire. That's a pretty small percentage, especially if you are using that as your justification for carrying.

This is the important part. At the end of the day, it just doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers to routinely have EMS carrying firearms if this is the route to justification. One probably has a better chance of getting shot just walking through the same area as a private citizen than if they were on an ambulance.

 

[abckidsmom]

This is the important part. At the end of the day, it just doesn't make sense when you look at the numbers to routinely have EMS carrying firearms if this is the route to justification. One probably has a better chance of getting shot just walking through the same area as a private citizen than if they were on an ambulance.

This is the key, I agree. I don't feel scared in places when I'm there in a uniform, with an ambulance, treating people with respect and maintaining situational awareness.

Same place, just me in my regular clothes? Yeah, no.

 

[SFox3325]

Not armed with a fiearms, but we can carry OC (pepper spray), and have the option of wearing a vest. I do most of the time, under the uniform shirt.

 

[djemt2001]

Our state constitution allows all employees to carry firearms. A lot so carry firearms, but it’s based off their right. Dispatchers carry, animal control, EMS, librarians, electrical maintenance. You never now who is armed.

 

[KingCountyMedic]

I keep about half a dozen Shuriken in the airway bag and carry a small pair of Nunchaku in my bunker coat "just in case"