Are you Volunteer or Paid?

[Akulahawk]

In a way, I look at working as an EMT-Basic as paid volunteer service. IOW: your pay is SO LOW that you're practically volunteering to work... with the bonus of being paid. You don't do it for the $$$. You do it because you love the work. If that's how you really feel... then going for Paramedic or some other position in medicine will certainly continue your professional growth and pay you better and that'll be the gravy part... you'd still be doing what you love to do.

 

[JPINFV]

Volly v paid debate?

I would post something along the lines of "I like where this thread is going," but I won't.

 

[mcdonl]

Mountain Res-Q, as you pointed out the other two threads were closed or I would have chimed in on those threads with my limited knowledge of this debate... most of which I learned here

For some of us (Higher education, long time careers in Health care Management, IT, logistics and technical writing....) the thought of changing careers to EMS is not even an option; financially or to our current employers who count on us to keep our hospitals running..... So, volunteer is our only viable option, and I like it that way. We get to help our community AND the EMS that serves our community.

I will not get into the quality of Volley vs Paid, because I do not know enough about it but I will say this. One of my new roles, due to my professional background is helping create the documentation for proper training, SOP's and SOG's.... there are plenty of officers in our department who know what, how, why and when to do the varies FF/EMT skills but lack the experience and education to create comprehensive documentation, training materials and various other skill sets that the volunteers can bring to the department.

I guess my point is, if you get the right volunteers with the right background, and combine them with the paid professionals you could end up with an EMS that exceeds the quality of an all paid EMS that lack the expertise that the volunteers bring from their professional life.

mcdonl

 

[resq330]

For some of us (Higher education, long time careers in Health care Management, IT, logistics and technical writing....) the thought of changing careers to EMS is not even an option; financially or to our current employers who count on us to keep our hospitals running..... So, volunteer is our only viable option, and I like it that way. We get to help our community AND the EMS that serves our community.mcdonl

Couldn't agree with you more on this one.

 

[eveningsky339]

Couldn't agree with you more on this one.

I concur.

My ambulance service utilizes Americorps volunteers to keep our most rural base open; otherwise people in that area would have insufficient emergency medical coverage. A volunteer EMT can be put on any ambulance at any time, creating a team of three, which is really an ideal number of EMTs for any type of emergency. Sometimes, two just doesn't cut it, and we end up having to call a flycar or another ambulance.

 

[Dwindlin]

Was paid up until I started Med School. Now I volunteer couple nights a week.

 

[reaper]

I am paid, when I volunteer to go to work!

 

[Miss Xina]

well, i'm not hired nor volunteer. i mean, i do ride time and help out cos i am licensed but i don't know if that's volunteer per se.

so, i am "other"

 

[downunderwunda]

I think what should determine if a service is volly or paid should be:

If the service sends an account to the patient & expects to get paid, then you should get paid. They are doing this to gain a profit & exploiting you at every turn every time you agree to go out for no charge.

 

[EMSLaw]

I think what should determine if a service is volly or paid should be:

If the service sends an account to the patient & expects to get paid, then you should get paid. They are doing this to gain a profit & exploiting you at every turn every time you agree to go out for no charge.

See, my squad operates as a non-profit, and doesn't bill anyone for our services. We have a fund drive every year, and get a small stipend from the Township (the Squad, not the members), but it's purely a public-service thing.

We have a paid contract service during the daytime hours (5am-6pm), and they bill insurance for the ride. If you don't have insurance, and are a town resident, you're supposed to not be billed, but they send bills anyway, hoping people will pay.

 

[downunderwunda]

See, my squad operates as a non-profit, and doesn't bill anyone for our services. We have a fund drive every year, and get a small stipend from the Township (the Squad, not the members), but it's purely a public-service thing.

We have a paid contract service during the daytime hours (5am-6pm), and they bill insurance for the ride. If you don't have insurance, and are a town resident, you're supposed to not be billed, but they send bills anyway, hoping people will pay.

If they send a bill, they are relying on the income to keep them running. This means they are working for profit. To claim otherwise cheapens the profession & shows a lack of respect for what we do.

EMS should not be run for profit.

EMS should be properly funded& as a primary healthcare provided be free for all.

Since this is what you consider fantasy, as a private providor, that, by your admission sends bills, claims from insurance, are a for profit organisation & as such should be paying you.

 

[DrParasite]

If they send a bill, they are relying on the income to keep them running. This means they are working for profit. To claim otherwise cheapens the profession & shows a lack of respect for what we do.

ummmm, no. what do you think a non-profit organization is?

I work full time as an EMT/Dispatcher for one of the busiest EMS systems in NJ. I also work per diem as a road EMT for another trauma center, and also am per diem at a suburban EMS service (one or twice a month at most).

and I'm an active volunteer EMT/Heavy Rescue technician for an EMS based Rescue Squad in the next county from where I used to live.

and I think all ambulances should be billing, and the days of begging for money to continue operations should be OVER

 

[downunderwunda]

ummmm, no. what do you think a non-profit organization is?

I work full time as an EMT/Dispatcher for one of the busiest EMS systems in NJ. I also work per diem as a road EMT for another trauma center, and also am per diem at a suburban EMS service (one or twice a month at most).

and I'm an active volunteer EMT/Heavy Rescue technician for an EMS based Rescue Squad in the next county from where I used to live.

and I think all ambulances should be billing, and the days of begging for money to continue operations should be OVER

I disagree. I think that ALL ems should be paid. How it is funded is another matter.

One service here charge a levy on all electricity accounts that fully funds their operations of a fully paid service, without the need for billing each individual. It also negates the need for insurances.

EMS is a profession. The service we provide is an essential service, a service that is provided to the community in their time of need. Why should those who choose to be a pert of it not be fairly & adequatley remunerated? The generation of a bill indicated there is income, if there is income then they should be prepared to pay for the people who staff, either on a permanent or a call basis retainer. To expect people to train to an appropriate level of care & provide it on a volly basis is obscene & should not be allowed.

 

[Dwindlin]

I disagree. I think that ALL ems should be paid. How it is funded is another matter.

One service here charge a levy on all electricity accounts that fully funds their operations of a fully paid service, without the need for billing each individual. It also negates the need for insurances.

EMS is a profession. The service we provide is an essential service, a service that is provided to the community in their time of need. Why should those who choose to be a pert of it not be fairly & adequatley remunerated? The generation of a bill indicated there is income, if there is income then they should be prepared to pay for the people who staff, either on a permanent or a call basis retainer. To expect people to train to an appropriate level of care & provide it on a volly basis is obscene & should not be allowed.

This is a pretty extreme statement and I would think many people would disagree. I think alot of volunteer's probably work other EMS related jobs (at least in my area they do), so saying your getting sub-standard care from volunteers is just false in this area. I myself volunteered for a small rural dept. that ran less than 500 calls a year. It doesn't make since for them to have a paid dept. running that small number of calls a year. Also in this area, many physicians volunteer on dept. like that. Why? Because they can continue to be active in pre-hospital treatment without having to join a busy system. You really believe those people are getting sub-standard care?

I'm not saying there doesn't exist poor volunteer dept. but to make blanket statements like that is just wrong, because after all there are pretty poor full time services too.

 

[karaya]

... To expect people to train to an appropriate level of care & provide it on a volly basis is obscene & should not be allowed.

You must be smoking kangaroo dung down there to make such ridiculous statement. The very foundation of these United States was established on volunteers. Our dedication to duty and community defined to the world the word "volunteer".

As a photojournalist and filmmaker, I have the advantage to travel throughout the United States and spend time riding with dozens of EMS providers both paid and volunteer. I have seen many EMS volunteer providers that could easily put to shame their paid counterparts, both in equipment and training. I have documented where volunteers have made the difference between life and death within their community.

Look at next month's issue of JEMS magazine in the Call To Action two page spread. There I photographed volunteer paramedics and firefighters working to save a woman's life while trapped in an MVA. Their skills in EMS and extrication was extraordinarily to say the least. I would have never known they were volunteers. And yet, I've been on hundreds of similar MVAs with highly paid union paramedics and firefighters where I was appalled at the horrible patient care. I was so disgusted with one in particular that I threw my cameras back in the truck and waited for the call to conclude. I wasn't going to film anymore bad EMS. And again, these were $100,000 a year paramedics!

I don't know the problems you are have down-under with your volunteers and I can't offer any response to that. But, if your going to keep slam dunking our volunteer systems in my country, then at least have the intelligence to support your statements with some credible facts.

 

[scottyb]

You must be smoking kangaroo dung down there to make such ridiculous statement. The very foundation of these United States was established on volunteers. Our dedication to duty and community defined to the world the word "volunteer".

As a photojournalist and filmmaker, I have the advantage to travel throughout the United States and spend time riding with dozens of EMS providers both paid and volunteer. I have seen many EMS volunteer providers that could easily put to shame their paid counterparts, both in equipment and training. I have documented where volunteers have made the difference between life and death within their community.

Look at next month's issue of JEMS magazine in the Call To Action two page spread. There I photographed volunteer paramedics and firefighters working to save a woman's life while trapped in an MVA. Their skills in EMS and extrication was extraordinarily to say the least. I would have never known they were volunteers. And yet, I've been on hundreds of similar MVAs with highly paid union paramedics and firefighters where I was appalled at the horrible patient care. I was so disgusted with one in particular that I threw my cameras back in the truck and waited for the call to conclude. I wasn't going to film anymore bad EMS. And again, these were $100,000 a year paramedics!

I don't know the problems you are have down-under with your volunteers and I can't offer any response to that. But, if your going to keep slam dunking our volunteer systems in my country, then at least have the intelligence to support your statements with some credible facts.

Thank you, Karaya.

I have had the pleasure of working with amazing volunteer EMT's and FF's. One thing I noticed is that volunteers don't seem to fall into the trap of it being a job. They are doing it because they want to, not because they need to to pay the bills. They, at least at my ambulance corps, seems to translate into a true sense of wanting to help the patient. The patients see that, people within their own community helping them and actually care.

I am not saying that paid personal don't care. I am saying that, in my experience, people in a community appreciate the volunteers and the volunteers are doing it because they want to.

 

[scottyb]

By the way, I went to your site. Nice photos. Keep up the good work. I had to bookmark it.

 

[atropine]

I disagree. I think that ALL ems should be paid. How it is funded is another matter.

One service here charge a levy on all electricity accounts that fully funds their operations of a fully paid service, without the need for billing each individual. It also negates the need for insurances.

EMS is a profession. The service we provide is an essential service, a service that is provided to the community in their time of need. Why should those who choose to be a pert of it not be fairly & adequatley remunerated? The generation of a bill indicated there is income, if there is income then they should be prepared to pay for the people who staff, either on a permanent or a call basis retainer. To expect people to train to an appropriate level of care & provide it on a volly basis is obscene & should not be allowed.

I agree, but unfortunitly here in America people have the right to give there service away for free. It may substandard, who knows, some say we in Los Angeles provide substandard care, but we start IV's give meds and follow the direction of the Medical Director just like any other paramedic would go figure. but people around the country want to play ricky rescue I say let them, If you choose to live in an area with little to no ems, well you chose to live there thats all.

 

[VentMedic]

I think alot of volunteer's probably work other EMS related jobs (at least in my area they do),

Bad, bad, bad idea.

If there is a disaster where your paid EMS job needs you, that is your priority. Whatever community is relying on those EMT(P)s will be left without much coverage.

We make this point very clear to our Paramedics and RNs who area also working at the hospital. They have their obligation to us and that should be pointed out up front when hurricane season approaches and duty assignments are posted. The same goes with the FD. Those who think they can hold down two FT jobs must disclose both to each employer. This does make it unfair to others who may have to do double duty when the disaster strikes.

It doesn't even have to be a FT EMS job that will create a problem. If the boss at your paid employer says you come to work or lose your job, I doubt if very many are going to risk their paycheck for a volunteer job.

I also seriously doubt if some will be so gungho for an EMS volunteer job once the education requirements are raised. However, maybe then the states and communities will see how important EMS is and find a way to have an all paid ALS 911 service for every citizen in their state. This "not my real job" stuff isn't cutting it.

 

[VentMedic]

I but we start IV's give meds and follow the direction of the Medical Director just like any other paramedic would go figure.

The difference is there are Paramedics who actually want to do EMS in other services and who have Medical Directors that allow them to do much more than what your area allows or would ever trust the Paramedics to do.

So no, your FD is not like any other Paramedic service by a long shot.