ALS CMEs for the EMT?

EpiEMS

EpiEMS

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Do any of you fine folks know if the NREMT will accept ALS CME (i.e. CME intended for AEMTs, Paramedics) for EMT recertification purposes? I wasn't able to find any guidance from them, other than what I can infer by saying I get hour-for-hour credit if I take ACLS.
 
instead of asking us fine folks, why not just ask the NREMT directly? my answer might be right or wrong, but if they give you an authoritative answer, you have a name of someone who gave you official information should their be any issues further down the line.

https://www.nremt.org/rwd/public/dashboard/contact
 
Yes you can apply "ALS" CEUs.

All of our EMTs have to take PHTLS and ACLS.
 
NPO said:
Yes you can apply "ALS" CEUs.

All of our EMTs have to take PHTLS and ACLS.
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Thanks!

Why's the requirement in place?
 
EpiEMS said:
Thanks!

Why's the requirement in place?
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Because we believe in educating our EMTs beyond the minimum so that they can use critical thinking at a closer level to the Paramedics, and anticipate and understand what their paramedic may need.
 
before I moved to NC, I have had a valid PHTLS card since 2004.... only reason i didn't keep it up is due to difficulty in finding a class within an hours drive that I don't have to take off from work for.

ACLS is a different story... although I can see how it would be beneficial if an EMT was working on an ALS ambulance all the time.
 
NPO said:
Because we believe in educating our EMTs beyond the minimum so that they can use critical thinking at a closer level to the Paramedics, and anticipate and understand what their paramedic may need.
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I follow the logic with PHTLS, but I'm not sure (most) EMTs have the A&P background to really make use of ACLS, myself included.
 
EpiEMS said:
I follow the logic with PHTLS, but I'm not sure (most) EMTs have the A&P background to really make use of ACLS, myself included.
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ACLS needs little if any A&P background.

CME is not approved by certification level. I renewed my EMT in paramedic school using almost all paramedic school hours.
 
EpiEMS said:
I follow the logic with PHTLS, but I'm not sure (most) EMTs have the A&P background to really make use of ACLS, myself included.
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ACLS as taught is so watered down. Very little A&P is needed. ACLS has become "If A then do B. If C then do D." I first took ACLS 2 years before going to paramedic school.

But, for what it's worth, we don't use AHA. We use ASHI course material to build our own curriculum to meet our needs and protocols.
 
EpiEMS said:
I follow the logic with PHTLS, but I'm not sure (most) EMTs have the A&P background to really make use of ACLS, myself included.
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There is really zero A&P needed for ACLS. If you have V-Fib then you do this and give that.
 
Tigger said:
ACLS needs little if any A&P background.
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NPO said:
ACLS as taught is so watered down. Very little A&P is needed. ACLS has become "If A then do B. If C then do D." I first took ACLS 2 years before going to paramedic school.
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DesertMedic66 said:
There is really zero A&P needed for ACLS. If you have V-Fib then you do this and give that.
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Ah, I had presumed that the A meant "Advanced". All jokes aside, didn't realize it was so cookie-cutter.
 
EpiEMS said:
Ah, I had presumed that the A meant "Advanced". All jokes aside, didn't realize it was so cookie-cutter.
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Keep in mind, that AHA ACLS is mostly designed for in-hospital nurses, and has to cater to the lowest common denominator. The curriculum occasionally thows a bone to EMS, but it's mostly geared at in-hospital providers.

If you read the book you can gain way more than from the class.
 
There is an ACLS for the Experienced Provider curriculum now from AHA... I've heard good things.

The reason ACLS is so simplistic in its class form is that 1. Most of the ACLS drug interventions don't do anything 2. Even experienced people were simple mistakes like not shocking shockable rhythms, inappropriately prioritizing interventions, interrupting compression for extended time periods, etc. 3. People were too zoned into the code so that after ROSC insufficient or inappropriate management occurred. 4. etc etc etc

There's good content in the book and if you go on and read the supplement in Circulation: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/132/18_suppl_2
 
I've got the ACLS EP book, but I've not been able to find a course anywhere .Ive read through some of the book. It doesn't expand a whole lot on what most experienced providers already know.

I'm going to finish the book as soon as summer school is over.
 
Update:

I received an email from the NREMT. They informed me that ALS provider CME is indeed permitted to count towards EMT recertification.
 
Unfortunately, AHA is more focused upon "providing courses" in lieu providing quality. When ACLS was initially developed, it had meaning; you knew those that passed understood emergency resuscitation. The course was very similar to the EP edition.

R/r911
 
Summit said:
There is an ACLS for the Experienced Provider curriculum now from AHA... I've heard good things.

The reason ACLS is so simplistic in its class form is that 1. Most of the ACLS drug interventions don't do anything 2. Even experienced people were simple mistakes like not shocking shockable rhythms, inappropriately prioritizing interventions, interrupting compression for extended time periods, etc. 3. People were too zoned into the code so that after ROSC insufficient or inappropriate management occurred. 4. etc etc etc

There's good content in the book and if you go on and read the supplement in Circulation: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/132/18_suppl_2
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As you mention, there really are not many things that help cardiac arrest patients, or STEMIs for that matter. It seems to be that ACLS is good at emphasizing that these don't have to be complicated. Be really good at the things that work, and you're doing right by your patients. Given it's expansion through hospitals, I don't think the purpose of it anymore is teach one to manage resuscitation.
 
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