Young EMS Personnell

[Scott33]

There are people that are serious as volunteers.

True, but "serious" usually involves putting in time and effort to gain "officer" status as opposed to furthering their EMS education.

You people think all we want to do is be wackers and play with lights and sirens. Well paid people can be wackers just as volunteers.

True.

I worked very hard to serve my community. I am not a "mommy may I"... I am giving back to my community.

So I assume you fully intend to go to Medic school so that you are able to serve your community better, by becoming a more rounded provider. After all, money means nothing to you.

 

[Foxbat]

No most vollys will not take it if it comes about. But sadly they and fire will whine and cry and this change will get canceled.

Educational standards for volunteer firemen have been increasing quite significntly in my area. Only 3-4 years ago, basic firefighting program was 80 hours. Before that it was 40 hours. When i went through it, it was about as long as EMT class. Now it's 170 hours and it will grow even more.
I heard some whining about how it deters volunteers from joining the service... And yet, classes at the academy are full.
Same will happen with volunteer EMS (which, to a large degree, is composed of the same people).

 

[VFFforpeople]

There was a television series on The Disney Channel titled " In A Heartbeat". It was based on a real-life EMS service ran by high school students. So yes there are other young EMS companies out there. "Age is just a number." B)

That was such an awesome show!!! and I am with a VFD i am the newest, not the youngest, but you know, who cares if your 18-19 EMS, I watch my sr. FFs mess up as well, age has nothing to do with medical, it is all on you. You either know it and can do it or you can't, no grey area. Now if you were structure fire or wildland, and you were capt. I would probably give you some grief.

 

[VFFforpeople]

True, but "serious" usually involves putting in time and effort to gain "officer" status as opposed to furthering their EMS education.



True.



So I assume you fully intend to go to Medic school so that you are able to serve your community better, by becoming a more rounded provider. After all, money means nothing to you.

I am sick of you arrogant paid people, you make me sick..you think because you make a pay check you became better. I have an ALS VFD, we not only respond to more calls, have a better record, and have more dedicated FFs than our city and state FFs, we do it for free, and I mean for free.
I am going to further my education for my community, because our paid people can't seem to do the work, so no no its ok us freebies will take control, while you sit in your AC rigs in the summer and your Heaters and cry how cold it is. VFF is the REAL meaning of for the people. (and yes I am higher trained than some of our paid capts.)

 

[BLSBoy]

I am sick of you arrogant paid people, you make me sick..you think because you make a pay check you became better. I have an ALS VFD, we not only respond to more calls, have a better record, and have more dedicated FFs than our city and state FFs, we do it for free, and I mean for free.
I am going to further my education for my community, because our paid people can't seem to do the work, so no no its ok us freebies will take control, while you sit in your AC rigs in the summer and your Heaters and cry how cold it is. VFF is the REAL meaning of for the people. (and yes I am higher trained than some of our paid capts.)

Wah wah wah.
Way to take money out of the pocket of your brothers.
When I see volunteer interfacility EMTs, I will start to give them credit.
That is providing service. That is saving the tax payers money.

 

[Veneficus]

When I see volunteer interfacility EMTs, I will start to give them credit.
That is providing service. That is saving the tax payers money.

I love that statement, that really puts things in perspective.

 

[JPINFV]

I would normally post some hand wringing freakoutery over the entire "ZOMG volunteering is from the heart" and "We don't need any of that dem dar edu ma cation" posts. Instead, would anyone like some popcorn?

 

[VFFforpeople]

They have that, its called going back and getting their Paramedic.

Ever noticed the ones that debate education are usually the ones that do not have a formal education.. ever wonder how one would make a rationale debate? ...Let's not get too smart! Let's keep it at the 6'th grade level.. you know it's only emergency medicine! Gosh! They would have to start paying us decent wages... and..."Gulp! Start requiring us to read more than one book!"

Show me another medical professionals that do not require an degree for entrance level?

Again, if you want the money, prestige, benefits of being a professional then one has to perform the requirements & yes that means becoming educated and not trained.

For as volunteers.. Time will demonstrate they will be a thing of the past in many areas. As the new curriculum will have several more hours and have components of sympathetic nervous system, public health, etc. and less emphasis on memorization for skills we have predicted an increase in the fail rate in classroom and the certification level. Required transitional courses for all those below the Paramedic level to keep their certification will add more education and training. This will be part of the process of weeding out those that are really serious and those that just want a hobby.

Hang onto your hat.. things are about to get interesting!

R/r 911

I disagree with you on this one ryder, I usually agree with you 99.9% of the time. I am a VFF to some it is a hobby others like me, I can't afford full time school, i didnt have a silver spoon in my mouth, but I have a VFC that is helping me get through. We staff 4medics 12EMTs, the rest FRs. We have 31 members. We are trained to the level of city,and our CalFire (CDF) paid. We run 24/7 and have not missed a call in over 8years. That is pretty good. Alot of CalFire capts. and City officals actually came from VFCs and not school. You can have all the 10 cent word knowledge you want, doesnt mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:. I laugh at Doctors and Nurses when I am in the ER watching how so many of them forget it isnt about money, its the people. I have gone 84hours straight on a fire line, 4hours sleep, pulled off hit the station and ran 2 medicals then back to the line. If it wasn't for volunteers the ambualnce would see alot more dead. I am sorry I think you all have to big of head trips and are "paragods" or w/e. come back down a notch and remeber we have the same training as you, and some of our training and VFs make you all look like jokes.

 

[Foxbat]

When I see volunteer interfacility EMTs, I will start to give them credit.

...Or you will say something along the lines of "now these vollies take money from IFT professionals, too!"
With that being said, our service is combination paid+volunteer. IFTs are large %ge of our call volume.

 

[daedalus]

I disagree with you on this one ryder, I usually agree with you 99.9% of the time. I am a VFF to some it is a hobby others like me, I can't afford full time school, i didnt have a silver spoon in my mouth, but I have a VFC that is helping me get through. We staff 4medics 12EMTs, the rest FRs. We have 31 members. We are trained to the level of city,and our CalFire (CDF) paid. We run 24/7 and have not missed a call in over 8years. That is pretty good. Alot of CalFire capts. and City officals actually came from VFCs and not school. You can have all the 10 cent word knowledge you want, doesnt mean :censored::censored::censored::censored:. I laugh at Doctors and Nurses when I am in the ER watching how so many of them forget it isnt about money, its the people. I have gone 84hours straight on a fire line, 4hours sleep, pulled off hit the station and ran 2 medicals then back to the line. If it wasn't for volunteers the ambualnce would see alot more dead. I am sorry I think you all have to big of head trips and are "paragods" or w/e. come back down a notch and remeber we have the same training as you, and some of our training and VFs make you all look like jokes.

Kiddo, you have a lot to learn. And, you would have money to go to school if you charged for your services. BTW, ambulance is spelled ambulance, not "ambualnce". And, it isn't all about the people. It is about being able to feed your children and send them to school as well.

 

[medic417]

Educational standards for volunteer firemen have been increasing quite significntly in my area. Only 3-4 years ago, basic firefighting program was 80 hours. Before that it was 40 hours. When i went through it, it was about as long as EMT class. Now it's 170 hours and it will grow even more.
I heard some whining about how it deters volunteers from joining the service... And yet, classes at the academy are full.
Same will happen with volunteer EMS (which, to a large degree, is composed of the same people).

Thats because they hope to become paid firefighters. If EMS ups requirements people will not man up and get the education unless they want a paid position in many cases. There will be exceptions but not many unless the services pay for it, but then you can't really claim you are doing it for free then.

 

[medic417]

we do it for free, and I mean for free.

Yes we know and we see it every pay day in low wages. So thanks for nothing.

 

[daedalus]

That was such an awesome show!!! and I am with a VFD i am the newest, not the youngest, but you know, who cares if your 18-19 EMS, I watch my sr. FFs mess up as well, age has nothing to do with medical, it is all on you. You either know it and can do it or you can't, no grey area. Now if you were structure fire or wildland, and you were capt. I would probably give you some grief.

Age has nothing to do with medical? You ether know it and can do it or you can't? Wildland firefighting is more difficult than "medical"?

So, no grey area in medical? No "decisions"? It is black and white huh? So, its pretty clear cut when a doc orders a CT scan on the head of a patient coming into the ER with a headache...its black and white...there is no painstaking thinking about the utility of a head CT on a female pt with a PMHx of migraine? That same doctor doesn't have to think critically about starting chemo on the same patient after he diagnoses a large tumor on her brain, because it is pretty black and white about whether or not the treatment is futile, right? Its clear cut, not critical thinking or decision making, its all on him, right? He does not have to consider evidence based medicine and statistics, vs. the human side of things, right?

 

[VFFforpeople]

Kiddo, you have a lot to learn. And, you would have money to go to school if you charged for your services. BTW, ambulance is spelled ambulance, not "ambualnce". And, it isn't all about the people. It is about being able to feed your children and send them to school as well.

Dont call me kid, I work and go to school, and be paid? Wow, so I can be just like you? Worthless and arrogant? No thanks I am better than that. Also we have our VFs working for AMR,Mercy,Enlow. We have plenty of experiance. With us running calls, it save the county money to keep more of you paid on staff..who I question you actually deserve it..My children get fed I have 3. I work,school,and am a VF..Wow, says more about me than you. Huh? wiered VFs are always on the front lines willing to do the work, Thank God for us or the people would only get half the care the deserve. (Remeber Rule 1 of paitent care..pas ABC..it is the paitent.) YAY!! I taught you something!! Now how do you feel?

 

[daedalus]

Dont call me kid, I work and go to school, and be paid? Wow, so I can be just like you? Worthless and arrogant? No thanks I am better than that. Also we have our VFs working for AMR,Mercy,Enlow. We have plenty of experiance. With us running calls, it save the county money to keep more of you paid on staff..who I question you actually deserve it..My children get fed I have 3. I work,school,and am a VF..Wow, says more about me than you. Huh? wiered VFs are always on the front lines willing to do the work, Thank God for us or the people would only get half the care the deserve. (Remeber Rule 1 of paitent care..pas ABC..it is the paitent.) YAY!! I taught you something!! Now how do you feel?

Please do not act like that, because it will get the thread locked. Some of us are trying to have intelligent discussion about the future of EMS. Also, the way you write your posts, its very defensive in tone.

 

[VFFforpeople]

Age has nothing to do with medical? You ether know it and can do it or you can't? Wildland firefighting is more difficult than "medical"?

So, no grey area in medical? No "decisions"? It is black and white huh? So, its pretty clear cut when a doc orders a CT scan on the head of a patient coming into the ER with a headache...its black and white...there is no painstaking thinking about the utility of a head CT on a female pt with a PMHx of migraine? That same doctor doesn't have to think critically about starting chemo on the same patient after he diagnoses a large tumor on her brain, because it is pretty black and white about whether or not the treatment is futile, right? Its clear cut, not critical thinking or decision making, its all on him, right? He does not have to consider evidence based medicine and statistics, vs. the human side of things, right?

Again you forget..He doesnt chose if the paitent does Chemo..the paitent decides that. Already you are becoming the worst ALS provider..you forget about the paitent everytime! It is clear cut if you look at it. Chemo paitent may live. Without Chemo paitent may live.The difference is the quaility of treatment and respect they get. Simple Paitent first.

 

[VFFforpeople]

Please do not act like that, because it will get the thread locked. Some of us are trying to have intelligent discussion about the future of EMS. Also, the way you write your posts, its very defensive in tone.

Wouldn't be defensive if you and your like minded had an open mind to Volunteers, we do as much as you do, and more most the time. VFs will always be in the future of EMS because some places like up here north of you in CA can't afford to have full staff. They will always be there. Yes, county is pushing for them to go EMT, myself I am already there. So, yes VFs are moving forward as well, we save money simple as that. Thus that is why we are kept around. Economics, I didnt have to go to school to know that.

 

[medic417]

Wouldn't be defensive if you and your like minded had an open mind to Volunteers, we do as much as you do, and more most the time. VFs will always be in the future of EMS because some places like up here north of you in CA can't afford to have full staff. They will always be there. Yes, county is pushing for them to go EMT, myself I am already there. So, yes VFs are moving forward as well, we save money simple as that. Thus that is why we are kept around. Economics, I didnt have to go to school to know that.

You are kept around because why pay when you get it for free? Any community can find money for paid EMS. I am in very rural and poverty stricken area of USA yet we are paid. If my area can find the money any one can. Go EMT lol hope you mean go Paramedic.

 

[daedalus]

Again you forget..He doesnt chose if the paitent does Chemo..the paitent decides that. Already you are becoming the worst ALS provider..you forget about the paitent everytime! It is clear cut if you look at it. Chemo paitent may live. Without Chemo paitent may live.The difference is the quaility of treatment and respect they get. Simple Paitent first.

No, hold on. This is a teachable moment for you.

"45 y/o woman with long history of migraines, imaged normally 2 years ago by her neurologist comes in with a bad weekend of her typical pattern of migraines. The headache is actually gone by the time I see her in the ED. The husband complains that she is just not acting herself, although she can speak coherently to me in the ED. Nonfocal neuro exam. Go back and forth, whine about the utility of a repeat head CT to myself, and just bite the bullet.

On CT, a mass the size of a small lemon originating in the area of her thalamus with hydrocephalus. And I'm a hero for finding it, when I was not wanting to order that test in the first place. Not the first time I've been humbled to be cautious. Usually it's chest pain."

mike (attending ED physician over at SDN)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=154841&highlight=medicine+sucks

VFF, doctors must very carefully weigh the risks and benefits in everything that they do. That includes starting treatment for cancer, sometimes it is better to let the patient die without treatment, because the quality of life is much better. Medicine is very far from black and white, and is very complicated and there are rarely right answers to questions. Did you know that we still do not know if oxygen is helpful in the field?

 

[VFFforpeople]

You are kept around because why pay when you get it for free? Any community can find money for paid EMS. I am in very rural and poverty stricken area of USA yet we are paid. If my area can find the money any one can. Go EMT lol hope you mean go Paramedic.

We have District paid VFs, I didn't go into this field for the money. There are enough doctors,nurses,insuarnce sales people for that. I came for the people, to do my best to help them. I speak for me, I dont know why you got into it. If it was for money, I say quit now and never return. If it is because you care about the people, then thank you. I have been on some mean calls where the paitent care made the difference for the family, not my actions of medical.