Stopping at an MVA out of response area?

[reaper]

For #5 that is a very frequent occurrence here. Our VSTs and mechanics often drive the ambulances as a solo person out of the county. Same thing with the medics and EMTs. We will drop ambulances off at the main mechanic area which is several counties over or pick up/drop off supplies at other areas

Our service does this and it came back to bite them with a complaint to the county. So now, when anyone non medical is driving an ambulance for any reason they must place a placard in the front window. It is a red sign that says "out of service". They are still required to stop and let all parties know that they have notified dispatch of the incident and that help is on the way.

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[DrParasite]

Do you agree that a phone call from someone in a MVC and possibly excited and/or tunnel visioned is sufficient enough or do you think a follow up call from someone identifying themselves as EMT Joe from X Volley Dept, no injuries, but the cars are in the road or are leaking fluid is a better size up? Especially in a rural area where there could be delays or not all or not the right resources deployed initially based on the limited first 911 call?

What's your input on that?

A pone call from EMT joe from X Volley department is treated the exact same way as Joe Citizen. Unless I know you personally, I am going to treat you like every other person who calls 911. Same questions. I don't care if you are the medical director, paramedic supervisor, or off duty career fire chief, if you call 911, and I don't know your personally, you are treated and questioned exactly as joe citizen. If you say you need 5 ambulances, and dispatch protocol is to only send one until a responder in the AHJ gets on scene requesting more, than you are getting only one ambulance. Hopefully your dispatcher are doing their jobs properly and asking everyone the same questions to determine what resources are needed on scene.

Now, if your on duty somewhere, in a department vehicle, and your dispatch center calls my dispatch center, that's a different story. But regardless of if your in an urban or rural area, all 911 callers are treated the same way, because there is no way to verify that EMT Joe is really an EMT, and really on X volley department. If you are in a marked vehicle, I will ask you for your agency name, your ambulance name, in addition to all my other questions, and then tell the responding units to "look for ABC ambulance that was flagged down for this incident."

If you want to seriously CYA, pull up behind the scene of the MVA (if they are in the middle of traffic), activate your EWD to advice other drivers that something has happened, call your dispatcher center and advice them as to what happened, and check for injures. once the AHJ shows up (whether fire, PD or EMS), ask them if they need anything from you, and be on your way.

 

[johnrsemt]

Carry it further: When I worked in Indianapolis we had Duty to Act to stop. I was always told if you didn't have a patient on board you stopped, no matter where you were.
Coming back from an out of state transport, we were waved down by State Police, outside of Milwaukee WI (2 states away) for what he thought was a single car MVC caused by the driver having a seizure, turned out to be a massive MI. I was basic partner was medic I asked officer to lead us to closest major hospital after we found out that the closest responding ambulance from the area was still 20-30 minutes away due to ice storm and number of runs they already had.
I called our medical director in Indy, he told us to treat pt the way we would at home and if need be he would talk to the doctor at the local hospital, Doctor there didn't care, and was happy we were there, pt spent 3 minutes in the ED; and went straight to the cath lab on our cot due to the first 12 lead we did.

 

[akflightmedic]

Parasite, you are wrong and I say that from personal experience in numerous situations over the years. I have even initiated a Trauma Alert by identifying myself and then stating why. As a guy off duty in a county where I did not work, I launched the Helicopter to the scene.

Yes, someone identifying themselves and providing credible information can and should be taken at greater value than the initial call/s from random lay people.

But thanks for playing and being the obstinate curmudgeon as usual.

 

[DrParasite]

sorry dude, but your still wrong, and any dispatcher who initiates a trauma alert from a bystander is either really new or really trusting. maybe you got the new guy to take a risk on you, but if you were wrong, guess who will get blamed? give you a hint, it won't be joe citizen who called for the helicopter or initiated the trauma alert.....

I can't imagine how many unneeded helicopter launches we would have if any passerby could request one.

Until you have actually worked in a 911 center, maybe you shouldn't talk about what should and should not happen in one?

And no, I won't lower myself to name calling.

 

[akflightmedic]

I did work in a 911 call center for almost two years, thank you.

I used this approach to backdoor my way into a county service.

Been there, done that and speak from experience and fact. Just because you disagree or it does not fit in your box does not mean it should not be considered or it did not occur elsewhere.

 

[Bullets]

Ak, if you were in my county and you were off duty and called my county radio room, you probably wouldnt have gotten a helicopter either


But to OP, if i were in a marked unit, i would have blocked them, hit the lights and advised over the radio that i was out with whatever, assessed and treated (or Not) and then stood by until the locals got there

 

[VFlutter]

I have even initiated a Trauma Alert by identifying myself and then stating why. As a guy off duty in a county where I did not work, I launched the Helicopter to the scene.

Happened to me the other day. Had an off duty volunteer FF be the first to arrive on scene of a bad MVA and had them dispatch the helicopter based off the extent of the injuries. We were in the air before EMS arrived.

 

[EpiEMS]

Happened to me the other day. Had an off duty volunteer FF be the first to arrive on scene of a bad MVA and had them dispatch the helicopter based off the extent of the injuries. We were in the air before EMS arrived.

n = 1 and all, but was HEMS dispatch clearly indicated from your POV upon arrival?

 

[NomadicMedic]

I've also responded to a call that had a helicopter launched by an off duty paramedic on scene. The guy was an off duty medic that I didn't know and he was holding Cspine when I got there. He was right in his assessment and saved time in getting the helicopter launched. I don't know if he identified himself with his Georgia paramedic number or what, but it was a legit call and I appreciated his help.

 

[VFlutter]

n = 1 and all, but was HEMS dispatch clearly indicated from your POV upon arrival?

Yes HEMS was clearly indicated, it was the worst trauma I have flown yet. Not saying that it happens all the time but I don't see a problem with it if clearly appropriate.

For example if I stumble across a MVA and call 911 with something like "I am a RN at the scene of a MVA, the patient has a traumatically amputated extremity, multiple open long bone fractures, etc and I know we are 45+ mins from a trauma center you may want to call HEMS" I think it would be appropriate to dispatch a helicopter or at least have one on stand by. If EMS arrives 10 mins later they can cancel if not necessary.

We occasionally get placed on stand by based off the dispatch call before EMS arrives. If it is far away we will launch and head that direction then circle a few miles out. If they need us we can respond in a couple minutes if not we get cancelled we go back to base. No big deal.

 

[EpiEMS]

@Chase seems reasonable to me. I can't imagine good info would be disregarded out of hand.


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[akflightmedic]

My point exactly. Good, quality info and an identifier...it would be WRONG to ignore it based on some strict adherence to a misguided/misinformed mantra.

In X county of my state at time (FL), I am XXX Paramedic with XX COunty, FL License # XXX, I am on scene of blah blah blah...based on State Trauma Criteria and my assessment you need an additional unit, an additional apparatus, and launch the helicopter.

Done!

 

[Tigger]

sorry dude, but your still wrong, and any dispatcher who initiates a trauma alert from a bystander is either really new or really trusting. maybe you got the new guy to take a risk on you, but if you were wrong, guess who will get blamed? give you a hint, it won't be joe citizen who called for the helicopter or initiated the trauma alert.....

I can't imagine how many unneeded helicopter launches we would have if any passerby could request one.

Until you have actually worked in a 911 center, maybe you shouldn't talk about what should and should not happen in one?

And no, I won't lower myself to name calling.

I enjoy that you say sorry every time you disagree with someone based upon only your personal experiences.

There are lots of places different than yours. Every county that I work in for my jobs can and will launch a helicopter or specialty resource based upon an off duty provider's call.

 

[EMS HOT BOX]

I see the OP is getting blasted so here's my take. If you run for a private, call dispatch & check & advise before doing anything. I worked for privates so I know that vicious money hungry tribe. I've rarely seen vollies run solo for anything even a trip to the coach builder for a mechanical issue so they're good to jump out with all their little goodies. Municipals better call dispatch while their prepping to asses & render what aid he can within the scope of his authority & training & wait until dispatched medical help arrives or at least get a staffed unit rolling in case the scenario worsens & immediate transport is recommended. Either way, a warm body seated next to you, basic & advanced level equipment not withstanding your mind & wits are your basic skill set & if one elects to shirk their responsibility sans medical equipment & a partner they need to seek employment elsewhere.

 

[Kuhnz350]

Many months back when I was working for my old company we were coming back from a hospital on a highway, this territory is covered by the city paramedics. It was rainy out and we hit loads of unusual traffic. We finally followed traffic up until what was causing in. A cement truck was laying on its side on top of the concrete median barrier blocked the left lanes in both directions. We were the first unit on scene and activated our lights to alert traffic. My partner called into the county and advised them of the accident and they stated it has been called in and the city paramedics are responding. In the meantime I met with the driver who was out walking and complained of leg pain. I took him in the back of our truck and began evaluating him. In the end the medics showed up and we all basically agreed we would just transport the guy seeing as he was already in our truck. So personally. I feel you should always stop and do what you can, take a report, get vitals, do an assessment, etc. Even if its just to write a "Transferred care" chart when the area's ambulance shows up.

 

[GMCmedic]

You can identify yourself as a big fan of Greys anatomy and our dispatch will launch a helicopter to the intersection in front of the trauma center. They're as set in their ways as the done it all seen it all medics that are still crying that we dont use spine boards.

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