Should EMS be armed

[ffemt8978]

Oh god. Why is this topic back!?

Ummm...maybe because somebody used the "Search" function before posting?

 

[AJ Hidell]

Ummm...maybe because somebody used the "Search" function before posting?

And God Bless them for that!

 

[medic417]

Ummm...maybe because somebody used the "Search" function before posting?

So when did you fix the search button because based on stethoscopes its been broken for a while.

 

[Explorer127]

Unless you are on a Tactical Medical Team, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!

We already have enough idiots and yahoos who are in it for the low educational requirements, flashy lights, sirens, and cool uniforms. Now we can attract more cause we can carry?

Not to mention our job is PATIENT CARE! Or have people forgotten that LEOs are for protection.


We will never advance our profession.......:glare:

My sentiments exactly..

 

[guardian528]

no.

no.

no.

 

[medic417]

yes


yes



yes



What are we debating?

 

[daedalus]

yes


yes



yes



What are we debating?

NO NO NO NO
AND. I hate you just cause you said yes to something I oppose!

/extreme sarcasm

 

[medic417]

NO NO NO NO
AND. I hate you just cause you said yes to something I oppose!

/extreme sarcasm

As do I. That is I hate me to but for different reasons. My shrink says I have some sort of complex.

 

[AJ Hidell]

Or have people forgotten that LEOs are for protection.

If they're so good at it, how come they're always getting killed?

No thanks. I'll take responsibility for my own safety.

 

[Shishkabob]

EMS is part public health and part public safety.

LEOs get guns, Firefighters get axes, what do we get?

"If you don't stay back, I'll open my OB kit and get my sterilized scalpel!"

 

[JPINFV]

Trauma shears and traction splints...

Leather restraints...

chemical restraints.

 

[Shishkabob]

Trauma shears and traction splints...

"hold still while I try to cut you with blunt scissors!

chemical restraints.

Yay lawsuit.

 

[JPINFV]

I've always wanted a haldol loaded dart gun.

 

[Shishkabob]

How about hydrochloric acid filled super soakers?

 

[Melbourne MICA]

The arms race

Without burying myself under a mound of complaints by second amendment rights advocates can I just say the whole notion of gun ownership by citizens scares the crap out of me. And as for EMS types being loaded - what exactly do you think will be achieved by having a concealed Glock in your kick?

If all the school shootings etc in the US and elsewhere taught anybody anything its that events will unfold so quickly and so chaotically that whether you have a piece or not will be irrelevant - not one of these shootings has been intercepted and prevented by a gun toting citizen or even by a legally armed security operative with some level of arms and/or combat training.

(PS Venty - I watched the ABC docu link you posted - absolutely spot on)

And that's what we are talking about here are we not? Armed Combat - Real bullets, real guns, real dead people - real emotions and real chaos. If you start drawing a weapon or even using it on someone don't expect them to stand there and take it - they will shoot back, if they haven't already done so in the first place.

The ramifications on EMS personnel if we carry any sort of lethal weapon are too horrible to contemplate - deaths, horrific injuries, reprisals, revenge, blood feuds, stereotyping of ambos in uniform, wrongful death suits, litigation, insurance claims and the lifelong effect on EMS staff involved in a shootout - and you may not even have to discharge your weapon to suffer long term psychological trauma.

It may seem incongruous to some but the impartiality of EMS, backed up with common sense, training, experience and a painstakingly earned reputation for caring and professionalism in the community is and has always been our best defense against threats to our welfare.

There was a catchy slogan the gun lobby here adopted after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania some years ago when the government tightened the screws on gun ownership even tighter.

They used to have a bumper sticker you could proudly display on your car window.

The slogan said: "Guns don't kill people - people kill people".

I added another line to it. "So how can you trust any person with a gun?"

Guns have no place on EMS - ever.

MM

 

[Melclin]

Without burying myself under a mound of complaints by second amendment rights advocates can I just say the whole notion of gun ownership by citizens scares the crap out of me. And as for EMS types being loaded - what exactly do you think will be achieved by having a concealed Glock in your kick?

If all the school shootings etc in the US and elsewhere taught anybody anything its that events will unfold so quickly and so chaotically that whether you have a piece or not will be irrelevant - not one of these shootings has been intercepted and prevented by a gun toting citizen or even by a legally armed security operative with some level of arms and/or combat training.

(PS Venty - I watched the ABC docu link you posted - absolutely spot on)

And that's what we are talking about here are we not? Armed Combat - Real bullets, real guns, real dead people - real emotions and real chaos. If you start drawing a weapon or even using it on someone don't expect them to stand there and take it - they will shoot back, if they haven't already done so in the first place.

The ramifications on EMS personnel if we carry any sort of lethal weapon are too horrible to contemplate - deaths, horrific injuries, reprisals, revenge, blood feuds, stereotyping of ambos in uniform, wrongful death suits, litigation, insurance claims and the lifelong effect on EMS staff involved in a shootout - and you may not even have to discharge your weapon to suffer long term psychological trauma.

It may seem incongruous to some but the impartiality of EMS, backed up with common sense, training, experience and a painstakingly earned reputation for caring and professionalism in the community is and has always been our best defense against threats to our welfare.

There was a catchy slogan the gun lobby here adopted after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania some years ago when the government tightened the screws on gun ownership even tighter.

They used to have a bumper sticker you could proudly display on your car window.

The slogan said: "Guns don't kill people - people kill people".

I added another line to it. "So how can you trust any person with a gun?"

Guns have no place on EMS - ever.

MM

The point of that SSAA slogan, Melb, was that if a person wants to kill someone, they will. If they don't have a gun, they'll use a knife. The anti-gun lobby also misses the fact that here in Australia, the vast majority of homicides are not committed by guns sold legally. Taking legal guns away from perfectly law abiding gun owners (like me, if u didn't guess) doesn't stop anyone from being killed for the most part.

Back on topic :...The first thing that comes to mind when I think of EMS being armed is having to add a line to the "Agitated Patient" guideline. Something like : 'and make sure they don't grab your gun'. In Aus, at least, I could only see them being a liability. And hindrance to gaining the trust of patients, esp psych patients. Tell you what I wouldn't mind as an option at least...those nifty little stab vests that the British coppers wear. Indistinguishable from normal clothing, light and dirty-blood-filled-syringe resistant - a winning combination.

 

[Melbourne MICA]

Biting my tongue

The point of that SSAA slogan, Melb, was that if a person wants to kill someone, they will. If they don't have a gun, they'll use a knife. The anti-gun lobby also misses the fact that here in Australia, the vast majority of homicides are not committed by guns sold legally. Taking legal guns away from perfectly law abiding gun owners (like me, if u didn't guess) doesn't stop anyone from being killed for the most part.

Back on topic :...The first thing that comes to mind when I think of EMS being armed is having to add a line to the "Agitated Patient" guideline. Something like : 'and make sure they don't grab your gun'. In Aus, at least, I could only see them being a liability. And hindrance to gaining the trust of patients, esp psych patients. Tell you what I wouldn't mind as an option at least...those nifty little stab vests that the British coppers wear. Indistinguishable from normal clothing, light and dirty-blood-filled-syringe resistant - a winning combination.

I could diverge from the thread topic gladly but I won't. I'll just reprise my NO vote for guns on EMS and leave it at that.

MM

 

[wolfwyndd]

Ok, not having read ALL the posts yet (but most of the 1st page) I'm gonna give my 'gut reaction' to the question. I voted NO because as BLSBoy said, our job is patient care. IF we can't restrain / subdue a patient with what we generally carry on the ambulance scene safety dictates that we should back out and let LEO's in to do their job. In my opinion if a patient is that violent about being take in somewhere there's very little to stop him from taking a weapon away from one of US and using it against us. As an industry, we aren't trained to use weapons and there's no reason why we should.

I'm even on the fence about tactical medics being armed for a couple of reasons. 1. They are going in WITH several tactical members who ARE armed so why add more? 2. Even military combat medics loose their Geneva Convention protections if they use their personal weapon offensively. (Not defensively) So . . . . . . do they need a personal weapon or not?

 

[reaper]

I have never seen a Tac medic or LEO that uses their weapon offensively? They are all for defense and for a good reason.

 

[VentMedic]

I could even see guns being used against each other in EMS. Look at the headlines we have had with battles between Fire and EMS that got physicial even at scene. And those are just the ones that make headlines. Some don't have cool enough heads to be professional with each other so imagine what a weapon added to the mix would do.