I'm going to address your statements one section at a time
Not even a close comparison. If you can't admit that fire and EMS have a very similar mission/setup and PD is completely different, then this discussion is DOA..
Fire department mission: to save lives and protect property
Police Department: to serve and protect lives and property.
EMS: helping the sick and injured.
Have missions changed over the years? sure, but that's the gist of it.
Now, you mention setups:
Fire departments ride around in big trucks, work in crews between 3 and 6 people, respond from stations, have beds to sleep in on the over nights. Has a supervisor on every crew.
Police departments ride around in small trucks or cars, are posted to a zone or region, are running all day and night and if they get downtime, they find a quiet area in their zone. PD also handles most calls with a 2 person crew, and rarely has a supervisor on a scene, unless requested
EMS: ride around in small to medium sized vehicles, are posted to a zone or street corner, are running all day and night, and if they get downtime, they find a quiet area in their zone. PD also handles most calls with a 2 person crew, and rarely has a supervisor on a scene, unless requested
I don't know about you, but I think EMS's setup is more in line with PD than FD...
There simply is NO reality where fire and EMS being separate is cheaper and more streamlined. I get it, a lot of you guys don't have a desire to fight fire.. I get it, a lot of you have dealt with ****head firefighters on EMS runs, but just because riding the medic is more comfortable in an environment where you don't have to fight fire or deal with ****head firemen does not mean it is more efficient.
Cheaper =/= better. Realistically, for profit EMS agencies are the cheapest, because they pay the least in salaries. And I do agree with you, not every medical person wants to do fire... I get it. But if you polled every FD in the US (including yours) and asked them if they would have a problem if the department stopped going on EMS runs, how many people would object? maybe 7, out of a million?
I keep up on whats going on in my own area and across the nation in terms of EMS and fire/EMS. Third service EMS works well in areas where FD coverage is volunteer, but I have yet to hear of a successful setup in areas where fire and ems are both full time and separate.
From what you describe of your own department, you seem to be one of the rare ones that is doing it well. I've said it before, and I will say it again. But you are not the norm.
As for areas where FD and EMS are separate and doing it well:
Pittsburg PA
Minneapolis / Hennepin County
Wake County NC (actually, many NC EMS system are pretty decent, Wake just gets a lot more funding)
Sussex County Delaware
Many areas of NJ (it's not perfect, but it's the best that can be done with the funding and legislative support that it's given)
Boston Mass
I'm sure there are others, but those should get you started. Also, none of those systems are perfect, but they are doing a better job than if they were part of the FD (see the list I provided earlier for understaffed and underfunded EMS systems that are part of the FD).
The major disconnect here is that many of you are arguing based on the way it should be. There are relatively few people like me who genuinely enjoy going into a burning building one day and taking care of a sick grandma the next. In an idealistic world, those who want to do just fire could do that, and those who want to do just EMS could do that in environments that support their passions and strive for top quality service.
I enjoy both (ok, the burning building is more fun), and I don't enjoy doing either after 11pm.
The reality is that there's overlap in service, and when there's overlap in service, the bean counters (inside the FD, inside the EMS agency, and at the city management level) will try to start figuring out how to intermingle and save money. When this happens, it becomes an absolute abomination if the departments stay separate.
Respectfully disagree. see previous examples of merged departments and how abysmal they perform
It would be spiffy if hospitals would launch more hospital based EMS, but hospitals are completely profit driven now, and quality EMS is NOT profitable. The county health departments launching EMS? Where exactly is that money coming from?
And that's the crux of the issue. Many places won't give adequate funding to EMS, but are completely ok with giving the FD millions, despite the fact the the FD is NOT a profitable entity. It's a known black hole for money, and hasn't been profitable for centuries. So when EMS needs more money, it gets denied, so the FD gets involved, starts doing EMS, and money is allocated. It all comes from the same pot (taxpayers).
I'm actually not against the FD running EMS, and or even having the FD going on EMS calls. However, I have yet to see a big EMS system, ran by the FD, that is not an abysmal failure. I do think that small EMS systems can be part of the FD, because the call volume is low, and EMS often justifies the salaries of the firefighters.
But when I see a department that has a career firehouse with a 3 person staffed engine, 3 person staffed ladder, a BC, and a 2 person ambulance which is currently posted on a street corner, where 80% of the station's call volume is handled by that 2 person ambulance, staffed by the two junior members, I have to question if the department's priorities are in order. Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now
And since when did EMS folks feeling as though their opinions are more important any everyone else's constitute the 'outlier' category?