Seattle medic one

Fastfrankie19151

Forum Crew Member
40
5
8
Just curious for those Seattle people what’s the difference between your standard Ems Ambulance and Medic one vehicles ? They are both Advanced Life Support correct ?
 

PotatoMedic

Has no idea what I'm doing.
2,638
1,453
113
So... Last I checked... And I doubt it changed. Is the Medic One Medic units are paramedic ALS. Everyone else is BLS. Aid car is BLS. Private ambulance is BLS (unless it is CCT and those usually only do IFT).

Not sure that makes sense... It's been a busy day at work and my head not work so good.
 
OP
OP
Fastfrankie19151

Fastfrankie19151

Forum Crew Member
40
5
8
So... Last I checked... And I doubt it changed. Is the Medic One Medic units are paramedic ALS. Everyone else is BLS. Aid car is BLS. Private ambulance is BLS (unless it is CCT and those usually only do IFT).

Not sure that makes sense... It's been a busy day at work and my head not work so good.
That makes a lot of sense thank you
 

RescueRicky

Forum Ride Along
8
1
3
So... Last I checked... And I doubt it changed. Is the Medic One Medic units are paramedic ALS. Everyone else is BLS. Aid car is BLS. Private ambulance is BLS (unless it is CCT and those usually only do IFT).

Not sure that makes sense... It's been a busy day at work and my head not work so good.
I also heard SFD is the worst of the bunch.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
Community Leader
7,698
2,656
113
Are SFD paramedics also firefighters while they are working on the medic one units?
 

NomadicMedic

EMS Educator
11,945
6,655
113
It’s been 12 years since I was in Seattle, but unless things have changed, they do not cross staff. If you’re a medic, you’re a medic.

King County Medic One, the only non fire department branch of Medic One, is strictly third service ALS, relying on private BLS to transport the great majority of patients.
 

Luno

OG
Premium Member
660
42
28
Just curious for those Seattle people what’s the difference between your standard Ems Ambulance and Medic one vehicles ? They are both Advanced Life Support correct ?
In Seattle, EMS Ambulances are primarily AMR and are Basic Life Support. Seattle Fire has a contract with AMR. The Seattle FD ambulances (Aid Cars, noted by A and rig number) are Basic Life Support and staffed by Seattle Fire Fighters. The Seattle Medic One vehicles (noted by M and rig number) are staffed by Seattle Fire Department Medics. Hope this helps.
 

NomadicMedic

EMS Educator
11,945
6,655
113
In Seattle, EMS Ambulances are primarily AMR and are Basic Life Support. Seattle Fire has a contract with AMR. The Seattle FD ambulances (Aid Cars, noted by A and rig number) are Basic Life Support and staffed by Seattle Fire Fighters. The Seattle Medic One vehicles (noted by M and rig number) are staffed by Seattle Fire Department Medics. Hope this helps.
And for what it's worth, all of the fire department ambulances, either Aid Car or Medic, say "MEDIC ONE" on the side. That's the brand name for paramedic services in Western Washington. It's a bit confusing, to say the least.

This is "Aid 2", a BLS unit... but the graphics say MEDIC ONE. Their BLS rigs NEVER transport unless it's an injured firefighter. They use these as quick response vehicles to respond to calls, do an assessment, and then hand over the patient to the private BLS ambulance crew.

I'm a fan of a tiered system, but this is 100% pointless.


1660232820253.png
 
OP
OP
Fastfrankie19151

Fastfrankie19151

Forum Crew Member
40
5
8
And for what it's worth, all of the fire department ambulances, either Aid Car or Medic, say "MEDIC ONE" on the side. That's the brand name for paramedic services in Western Washington. It's a bit confusing, to say the least.

This is "Aid 2", a BLS unit... but the graphics say MEDIC ONE. Their BLS rigs NEVER transport unless it's an injured firefighter. They use these as quick response vehicles to respond to calls, do an assessment, and then hand over the patient to the private BLS ambulance crew.

I'm a fan of a tiered system, but this is 100% pointless.


View attachment 5568
Sounds absolutely pointless all those wasted tax payer money only to give patient to a private contractor
 

chriscemt

Forum Lieutenant
164
43
28
And for what it's worth, all of the fire department ambulances, either Aid Car or Medic, say "MEDIC ONE" on the side. That's the brand name for paramedic services in Western Washington. It's a bit confusing, to say the least.

This is "Aid 2", a BLS unit... but the graphics say MEDIC ONE. Their BLS rigs NEVER transport unless it's an injured firefighter. They use these as quick response vehicles to respond to calls, do an assessment, and then hand over the patient to the private BLS ambulance crew.
Similarities to Overland Park Fire and Medical Action in Johnson County, KS. At one point, OPFD was operating ambulances with Med-Act badging, staffing Medical-Action paramedics, but painted red, instead of white.

Really, the similarities of Med-Act to KCM1 is fairly striking.
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
1,025
579
113
I realize this opinion is generally shunned and hated on these forums, but it is so much less complicated when FD runs fire, EMS first response, and EMS transport under one organization.

I have heard of so many completely broken iterations of 3rd service EMS programs that overlap full time fire and I don’t think I’ve ever read of a successful program.
 

EpiEMS

Forum Deputy Chief
3,768
1,113
113
I realize this opinion is generally shunned and hated on these forums, but it is so much less complicated when FD runs fire, EMS first response, and EMS transport under one organization.

I have heard of so many completely broken iterations of 3rd service EMS programs that overlap full time fire and I don’t think I’ve ever read of a successful program.
There's no perfect model, but there is a better model for certain constraints. I grant you that there are some synergies and scale advantages (obvious ones are administration, maintenance, training), but when it comes to operating model, I'm not so sure the core competencies or culture of the fire service really mesh with healthcare...nor does the cost structure (i.e., chunky CapEx, expensive labor).

More on topic from me...seems wasteful to have full fledged BLS ambulances that just do first response. Why not an SUV? I get not taking fire units out of service for EMS calls, that makes sense and lets you economize (a bit, anyway).
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
1,025
579
113
There's no perfect model, but there is a better model for certain constraints. I grant you that there are some synergies and scale advantages (obvious ones are administration, maintenance, training), but when it comes to operating model, I'm not so sure the core competencies or culture of the fire service really mesh with healthcare...nor does the cost structure (i.e., chunky CapEx, expensive labor).

More on topic from me...seems wasteful to have full fledged BLS ambulances that just do first response. Why not an SUV? I get not taking fire units out of service for EMS calls, that makes sense and lets you economize (a bit, anyway).
Reacting to your expensive labor statement

To play devils advocate, don’t most single role EMS providers make significantly less than dual role fire medics or even single role firefighters when compared within a region?

So another advantage to a fire based model is a livable wage for EMS providers. And if your heart is truly with EMS and not firefighting, there’s not too many departments where you couldn’t say “I’d like to just ride the medic” and be told no.
 

chriscemt

Forum Lieutenant
164
43
28
I have heard of so many completely broken iterations of 3rd service EMS programs that overlap full time fire and I don’t think I’ve ever read of a successful program.
I can't say what we do is perfect, but as far as general response is concerned, our agency and the fire departments we work with do a really good job. We cover an area that works with at least 5 different fire departments, parts of two counties, and numerous law enforcement.

To play devils advocate, don’t most single role EMS providers make significantly less than dual role fire medics or even single role firefighters when compared within a region?
I would imagine that dual role fire medics would relate to less jobs, too.
 

Summit

Critical Crazy
2,647
1,253
113
I have heard of so many completely broken iterations of 3rd service EMS programs that overlap full time fire and I don’t think I’ve ever read of a successful program.
And what is the cause of that exactly?

I'd place my money on FD wanting to do whatever justifies their budget is the usually the cause of the messy overlap. "Oh no we need an ambulance and engine with 8 medics to respond... but we are gonna let EMS transport."

That isn't an EMS problem. It isn't a Fire not running EMS problem either. It is a Fire problem.

It is just like the perennial complaints of when Fire runs EMS:
For the public it's: "We need taxpayer funding, but we want to bill for services too."

For people who care about EMS it's the problem of being Fire/EMS instead of EMS/Fire: that is it is still all about Fire even though most calls are EMS, EMS is not the dept priority, and the EMS role is a stepping stone or crap assignment instead of a desirable destination.
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
1,025
579
113
And what is the cause of that exactly?

I'd place my money on FD wanting to do whatever justifies their budget is the usually the cause of the messy overlap. "Oh no we need an ambulance and engine with 8 medics to respond... but we are gonna let EMS transport."

That isn't an EMS problem. It isn't a Fire not running EMS problem either. It is a Fire problem.

It is just like the perennial complaints of when Fire runs EMS:
For the public it's: "We need taxpayer funding, but we want to bill for services too."

For people who care about EMS it's the problem of being Fire/EMS instead of EMS/Fire: that is it is still all about Fire even though most calls are EMS, EMS is not the dept priority, and the EMS role is a stepping stone or crap assignment instead of a desirable destination.
Does fire create the overlap or does EMS? That’s a matter of perspective. In your scenario, 10 guys are being sent, 8 by fire and 2 by EMS. But if EMS was absorbed by fire, they’d only send 8, probably just 2 if it’s just a general medical call
 

Summit

Critical Crazy
2,647
1,253
113
Does fire create the overlap or does EMS? That’s a matter of perspective. In your scenario, 10 guys are being sent, 8 by fire and 2 by EMS. But if EMS was absorbed by fire, they’d only send 8, probably just 2 if it’s just a general medical call
Before Fire decided to make every FF a medic, fire used to only come to medical calls if called (MVC, code, lift assist). But then fire stopped having many fires to fight most places and needed to boost call volume so they made everyone "dual role" and started responding to EMS calls to pump up the volume.

So how is this a problem of EMS's making?
 

FiremanMike

Just a dude
1,025
579
113
Before Fire decided to make every FF a medic, fire used to only come to medical calls if called (MVC, code, lift assist). But then fire stopped having many fires to fight most places and needed to boost call volume so they made everyone "dual role" and started responding to EMS calls to pump up the volume.

So how is this a problem of EMS's making?
I never assigned blame to either side, only presented the reality of what we're seeing in America in 2022. All the stories I read on here of BLS fire squads arguing with ALS third service squads.. ALS fire captains planning the care of patients that will be transported by a third service ALS transport crew, and everything in between. It's all a cluster.
 
Top