Report Instructor?

[Shishkabob]

Sexual, yes. Inappropriate? Hardly. Just because you might be a prude doesn't mean it's wrong.


Be it my general manger, my co-manger, an employee that's been there for 4 years or someone that's brand new.

Again, I know the limits, no one feels uncomfortable, it's reciprocated both ways, it's made clear it's a joke, and never crosses the line in to harassment.




Oh noes, someone has a different sense of humor than you that others find funny too. It must not happen!

 

[bstone]

Sexual, yes. Inappropriate? Hardly. Just because you might be a prude doesn't mean it's wrong.


Be it my general manger, my co-manger, an employee that's been there for 4 years or someone that's brand new.

Again, I know the limits, no one feels uncomfortable, it's reciprocated both ways, it's made clear it's a joke, and never crosses the line in to harassment.




Oh noes, someone has a different sense of humor than you that others find funny too. It must not happen!

You should probably talk to your HR folks about this. You're a manager, which puts you at an advantage and the employees under your supervision are worried about their employment, so they go along with it. Perhaps some find it funny and fine, but you say you use it with brand new people.

Go talk to your HR folks. Seriously.

 

[bstone]

Linuss, since you're in Texas, I thought this document from the University of Texas might be helpful:

http://registrar.utexas.edu/catalogs/gi09-10/app/gi09.appe.html

Sexual misconduct is behavior or conduct of a sexual nature that is unprofessional and/or inappropriate for the educational and working environment.

Behaviors that may constitute sexual misconduct include but are not limited to

* Repeatedly engaging in sexually oriented conversations, comments, or horseplay, including the use of language or the telling of jokes or anecdotes of a sexual nature in the workplace, office, or classroom, even if such conduct is not objected to by those present

...SNIP...

Failure to observe the appropriate boundaries of the supervisor/subordinate or faculty member/student relationship, including the participation of a supervisor, teacher, adviser, or coach in an unreported consensual romantic or sexual relationship with a subordinate employee or student

As you can see, it doesn't matter who the audience is. It's prohibited. Being a supervisor or teacher is even worse.

 

[Shishkabob]

Chances are, if it's reciprocated (you know...done back) they get it's a joke. I don't use this style of humor with every single one of my 40ish employees. I know who finds what funny. Doesn't hurt that 90% of them are from mygeneration, so we tend to think alike.



And if only you knew who my "HR" was...

 

[bstone]

Chances are, if it's reciprocated (you know...done back) they get it's a joke. I don't use this style of humor with every single one of my 40ish employees. I know who finds what funny. Doesn't hurt that 90% of them are from mygeneration, so we tend to think alike.



And if only you knew who my "HR" was...

Linuss, you are talking about quid pro quo, but the courts have regularly held that it doesn't apply when it's a supervisor/employee relationship. Employees worry about keeping their jobs and not being labeled as "problem". Not telling you what to do, but I suggest talking to your HR or company's legal counsel about what to do. Just a suggestion.

 

[LucidResq]

I think the thing is, in making such comments, you're fine until someone gets offended. As long as you're willing to walk that line, you're ok. But you have to recognize the risk that you may at some point inadvertently overstep a boundary and there may be consequences involved. I know from my position, when I was an LT for SAR... the position was how the action/statement/"joke" was perceived, not necessarily the intention; and all complaints would be taken seriously and looked in to immediately.

 

[LucidResq]

And I'd like to affirm it's not about being prude or not. Steve, you honestly would call me a prude? Yet I would still be seriously put off by such a statement from an instructor. Apparently I'm prude... however I would not appreciate having a particular, private aspect of my body called to attention to my classmates by my instructor and making it the center focus of everyone's attention.

Unlike you, Steve, I am also a fairly well-endowed female. I am not ashamed of it, however, I do not need my body parts brought into the spotlight as the subject of a joke for my instructor and male classmates to giggle over like prepubescent schoolboys. I think it's inherently difficult for males to empathize with this situation.

 

[Shishkabob]

Lauren, I know you too well to call you a prude

(see, bstone? An example of a joke some might take the wrong way, but I know Lauren wouldn't)

I'm just trying to seperate "sexual harassment" from a (poorly thought out) joke.


There IS a difference.

 

[reaper]

Chances are, if it's reciprocated (you know...done back) they get it's a joke. I don't use this style of humor with every single one of my 40ish employees. I know who finds what funny. Doesn't hurt that 90% of them are from mygeneration, so we tend to think alike.



And if only you knew who my "HR" was...

You are walking a very fine line. Does not matter if you think they find it funny. All it takes is one person who says it is offensive and that's the end of the game. You will be out of a job, most likely be named in a suit and have a hell of a time finding work. I do not know where you are getting this freedom of speech thing from. You are a manager. You have no right to even tell a sexual joke to an employee. That can be considered sexual harassment, if it is reported. No, I'm sorry's. It is over and you have screwed yourself for good.

If you want to take that chance with your future, then be my guest. Once you are fired for it or named in a lawsuit, your reputation is gone and no decent agency will give you another chance. Have seen many supervisors go through the same thing. Because they could not keep their mouths shut.

What this instructor did was flat out wrong and he is an idiot for thinking it was even close to being a joke.

Now, if the OP wants to be nice, she can confront him first and see if he sees his mistake. If he does not want to take it as a learning experience, then report him to his supervisor and the school admin.

 

[goodgrief]

Thanks for all the thoughts y'all, will let you know what I end up doing

 

[Shishkabob]

You are walking a very fine line. Does not matter if you think they find it funny. All it takes is one person who says it is offensive and that's the end of the game. You will be out of a job, most likely be named in a suit and have a hell of a time finding work. I do not know where you are getting this freedom of speech thing from. You are a manager. You have no right to even tell a sexual joke to an employee. That can be considered sexual harassment, if it is reported. No, I'm sorry's. It is over and you have screwed yourself for good.

If you want to take that chance with your future, then be my guest. Once you are fired for it or named in a lawsuit, your reputation is gone and no decent agency will give you another chance. Have seen many supervisors go through the same thing. Because they could not keep their mouths shut.

What this instructor did was flat out wrong and he is an idiot for thinking it was even close to being a joke.

Now, if the OP wants to be nice, she can confront him first and see if he sees his mistake. If he does not want to take it as a learning experience, then report him to his supervisor and the school admin.

Couple of things I wanted to correct before I pass out for the next 5 hours:


1) You said "agency" a couple of times. Just want it to be known that the place that I'm a manager at is not an EMS agency, but a private civilian business.

It's bad enough that they trust me with drugs and defibrillator's, but to make sure other Paramedics do their jobs too? HA!



2) Don't go off assuming what kind of jokes I make and to what extent of how 'bad' they are.

99% of my material has to do with "That's what she said". The other 1%? Discussing how gross "Tickle Me Elmo" is.


I can GUARANTEE no one will EVER get in trouble for "That's what she said" jokes. Yet you cannot deny the fact that they are sexual in nature, and with how strictly you and bstone define 'sexual harassment', those jokes are technically 'harassment'.


Again, I know the limits, and I know who can be told what. People I hang out with outside of work? Full deal. In work? Toned back, but that doesn't mean it can't be sexual and still be legal.

I have no qualms with telling a female employee showing a bit too much "Put those things away before some guy gets distracted and runs into a wall". But I'll never go "lulz, bewbs"

 

[Aprz]

And if she made a false claim based on misinterpretation she just ruined an innocent persons life. I have seen people that were cleared of all charges but it was to late to save their lively hood and sadly even their marriage.

And if he did nothing wrong then he has nothing to worry about. Making a report ≠ automatic guilt and conviction.

In regard to what I quoted, from what I have observed, all it takes is one person to say you did it. Even if there are multiple students claiming this, how can you know they just aren't a part of the misinterpretation? In Jr. High, I was accused of racism, totally innocent of it, and you wouldn't believe how much people I didn't know, never seen before, heard of before, blah blah blah, who would say they witnessed me saying something racist. Just looking at them I could actually believe them, as if I was the obvious bad guy you see in the movies, and I didn't even do it! This one thing, which I never said, lead to many death threats and years of harrassment. I have physical scars from it. It ruined the midteen portion of my life and my (two) brothers' lives, and was solved by switching schools and staying low (problems occasionally occurred outside of school, but it eventually died down after a couple of years).

This sucks cause there aren't too many options for you to do. From my own experience, I'd approach him first since I consider losing anonymity less of a loss than the damage that could be done to an innoncent guy (value is subjective though, you may consider anonymity more valuable than what you think are the possible, or likely, damage to this guy), but if you choose to report it instead, report with extreme caution. Be aware of what you're doing here; the possible repercussions of reporting. I don't think this guy would get beat like I did, but I am sure others would join to make sure "this guy gets what he deserves" from people I'd imagine to be like bstone (please take no offense to this, just from the comments I've been reading within this post, I'd imagine you to do something like that, you're already practically leading an anti-this guy campaign on this forum without witnessing it or anything, you are just taking her word for it on everything she has said so far). He could lose his job, probably never get a job in this field ever again, etc. Don't "I think he said this", or anything like that. If you can replay it through your head, and it can change, I'd probably not report it. I think this situation could be just like the whole Emch thing we read with two flight nurses performing a cricoidectomy. This is harder than that Emch thing though since it's one of the "he said she said" sort of thing almost. I doubt there is any real clear cut evidence like audio and video recording for this which would quickly tell people "Okay, this is what he did wrong, and this is the punishment he deserves".

I hope that everything is dealt with appropriately.

 

[bstone]

Couple of things I wanted to correct before I pass out for the next 5 hours:


1) You said "agency" a couple of times. Just want it to be known that the place that I'm a manager at is not an EMS agency, but a private civilian business.

It's bad enough that they trust me with drugs and defibrillator's, but to make sure other Paramedics do their jobs too? HA!



2) Don't go off assuming what kind of jokes I make and to what extent of how 'bad' they are.

99% of my material has to do with "That's what she said". The other 1%? Discussing how gross "Tickle Me Elmo" is.


I can GUARANTEE no one will EVER get in trouble for "That's what she said" jokes. Yet you cannot deny the fact that they are sexual in nature, and with how strictly you and bstone define 'sexual harassment', those jokes are technically 'harassment'.


Again, I know the limits, and I know who can be told what. People I hang out with outside of work? Full deal. In work? Toned back, but that doesn't mean it can't be sexual and still be legal.

I have no qualms with telling a female employee showing a bit too much "Put those things away before some guy gets distracted and runs into a wall". But I'll never go "lulz, bewbs"

Linuss, I quoted for you from the University of Texas which laid out what's inappropriate and how the supervisor/employee relationship changes things. As well, you've been told by a few folks how you've probably crossed the line, if not walked right down the middle of it. You admit that you regularly use inappropriate sexual jokes with everything, from the veteran to the new guy. And you see absolutely nothing wrong with any of this.

Right?

 

[Shishkabob]

So you're telling me "That's what she said" is sexual harassment and I deserve to have the book thrown at me?



Okie dokie bro.





PC is what's wrong with America today....

 

[boingo]

For the OP, just curious, any chance you had other conversations regarding your "very, very large breasts"? It could be that the instructor felt comfortable with you due to prior converstations. Despite what the "rules" say, sometimes when you think you know your audience people tend to say things they wouldn't say otherwise.

A few years back, a female EMT and her male partner frequently talked about sex, flirted, etc... One day the girl mentioned a same sex encounter, the male asked if she'd be interested in a 3 some, and he was brought up on sexual harrassment charges. I had a tough time seeing the harrassment due to the scope of prior conversations, but maybe thats just me.

 

[bstone]

So you're telling me "That's what she said" is sexual harassment and I deserve to have the book thrown at me?



Okie dokie bro.





PC is what's wrong with America today....

Your story is changing, Linuss.

 

[Shishkabob]

Really? Is it? Look 2 posts above yours on this page.

2) Don't go off assuming what kind of jokes I make and to what extent of how 'bad' they are.

99% of my material has to do with "That's what she said". The other 1%? Discussing how gross "Tickle Me Elmo" is.

 

[bstone]

Really? Is it? Look 2 posts above yours on this page.

Your lawsuit, your job, your reputation. Not mine. All a lawyer has to do is find your posts here in which you openly admit to these things and, well, I suggest you talk to your HR or legal folks.

 

[Shishkabob]

Again--- You honestly believe that "That's what she said" is sexual harassment, let alone capable of going to court?



Wow...





You must only say knock-knock jokes at work, right?

 

[bstone]

Again--- You honestly believe that "That's what she said" is sexual harassment, let alone capable of going to court?



Wow...

Talk to ya later, Linuss. Really suggest you talk to the HR and legal folks. Later