Physician Assistant ?

[FiremanMike]

I would be cautious with Medic to RN bridge programs if advanced practice is your goal as in the past some NP schools, especially CRNA, would not recognize them or require additional requriments for entry. That may have changed and I am sure some of the members on here that have gone that route can clarify. Sometimes it is better to just do the traditional route vs jumping through hoops later

This is a brick and mortar community college program with a well established and locally well regarded RN program. They have recently allowed medics to join the "bridge" pathway that has been available to LPNs for some time. It allows me to skip the STNA requirement and two of the "intro to nursing" classes.

But you are correct, medic to RN bridge courses need to be investigated thoroughly before diving in. The online program that everyone is familiar with has a bad reputation, is quite expensive, and isn't recognized in many states.

TLR, this is a traditional route to RN..

 

[SandpitMedic]

@FiremanMike will that bridge yield you a BSN? Also, I don't think you were belittling anything, just stating my opinion.
Good on you for taking the steps towards higher education, I applaud your ambition and plan.

For me, PA was the right track. Everyone has their own goals and ideas, and must choose the path for them. I respect your opinion, but since we are out here in the open I will say that PA is a great career choice- espeically for good medics seeking to move up the chain. PAs are making great strides and achieving great things in regards to practice and image equality as well as independence (for seasoned providers)- case and point the ND law. PA is already a great career choice and the barrier to entry is uniformly a bachelors degree, science prerequisites that mirror medical school +/- a few classes, and patient care experience. Entry is highly competitive. Practicing medicine as a PA offers as much or as little autonomy as one desires to seek out with a collaborating physician - you can work in virtually any field that medicine has to offer straight out of graduation without additional classes. PAs have a great future outlook, and the compensation scale is very, very lucrative in some cases making as much as $250k annually just in salary. I would not consider any of that to be "illogical" as you put it, especially for a paramedic.

Here is something else to chew on- By the time you get to the point in which you are eligible for NP school it may well be a requirement to hold a master's degree in nursing. You are correct that the nurses are pushing higher and higher for practice rights; to achieve that they are moving quickly to make all NP programs doctoral programs. Is that "future proofing" or is that going to create a lack of applicants who will just go to medical school or PA school rather than spend 8 years becoming an advanced practice nurse? There are a lot of factors to consider and the future is always uncertain.

I'm not on the anti-nurse/NP campaign- that is also a great career choice. As I said, PA was right for me. My wife is an NP, she was an RN when we met. So I have seen both sides of how getting to each level goes.

 

[FiremanMike]

@SandpitMedic
1. No, only an ADN, I have a bachelors already in public safety management.. While some NP programs require a BSN, others only require an RN and a bachelors in any field (such is the case at the college I am most interested in).

2. I'm not counting PA out.. in my current plan, I'll be taking the pre-reqs for med school, so I will be able to choose my path at that point.. Part of me wishes I had a pension system that didn't have such a huge cutoff at 25 years, but on the other hand, it affords me the time to prepare for any of the 3 pathways.

3. Lastly, to your point of my using the word "illogical".. I should qualify that to say "illogical to me". I can appreciate the desire for a more robust education, but on the other hand it seems illogical to me to chose a path that is markedly more difficult once you factor in the immense amount of pre-medical coursework required for PA school, only to come out on the other end and compete for the same jobs with the same pay as your NP counterparts. I want it to make sense, because given my personality, I think I might actually prefer the appoach to PA school, but it just doesn't add up in my brain right now..

 

[SandpitMedic]

Good luck in whichever you choose.

 

[Alan L Serve]

The ED where
My patients are brought,
Hires only PAs, not NPs,
As the MDs don't trust
NP education

 

[Peak]

The ED where
My patients are brought,
Hires only PAs, not NPs,
As the MDs don't trust
NP education

Probably has more to do with supervisory billing that they cannot perform on the NPs.

 

[Alan L Serve]

Probably has more to do with supervisory billing that they cannot perform on the NPs.

My dear friend,
I must formally
Disagree,
As I was told this,
By the MDs

 

[Peak]

My dear friend,
I must formally
Disagree,
As I was told this,
By the MDs

Do you think they would have said that it was because they want to make more money?
Also, NPs are typically less wiling to do whatever the attending wants.

 

[Alan L Serve]

Do you think they would have said that it was because they want to make more money?
Also, NPs are typically less wiling to do whatever the attending wants.

My dear friend,
When the MDs
tell me this
fact
I believe.

 

[Peak]

My dear friend,
When the MDs
tell me this
fact
I believe.

Don't be that naive and gullible.

 

[Alan L Serve]

Don't be that naive and gullible.

My dear friend,
I wish you,
A good
Night

 

[VFlutter]

Well I know a CT surgeon that only hires NPs cuz he thinks their bedside nursing experience was invaluable #winning #anecdotal

 

[DrParasite]

PA is already a great career choice and the barrier to entry is uniformly a bachelors degree, science prerequisites that mirror medical school +/- a few classes, and patient care experience

One thing to remember is many of the applicants to PA school got rejected from med school, and PA school was their fall back plan. These are the full time 22 year old students, who all they have done is school full time, so they have straight As, compared to many working stiffs who were going to school while working 40-60 hour weeks.

It's tough to get in, the graduating classes tend to be smaller (compared to med schools), and the schooling is rigorous and always full time (IE, nearly impossible to work while in school), so you better have some income coming in to survive on while in school. But if you can do it, the opportunities are def there (although I know a couple PAs who ended up going back to med school).

 

[SandpitMedic]

One thing to remember is many of the applicants to PA school got rejected from med school, and PA school was their fall back plan. These are the full time 22 year old students, who all they have done is school full time, so they have straight As, compared to many working stiffs who were going to school while working 40-60 hour weeks.

Were you in PA school at some point? Did you apply to PA school? Do you hold PA licensure? Do you work for a PA program? Do you have personal experience in the admissions department for any PA schools?

Because if you do not answer yes to any of those questions I'm going to have to point out that you have absolutely zero credibility to make such statements. It's okay to stay in your lane. "I heard it from a bud" doesn't count.
I can assure you that there is more than one PA program, and while one cohort may have had such people - the vast majority of applicants are not "med school rejects." Having been through the process personally and knowing many PAs, students, and applicants I can assure that is not the case. I can probably count on one hand how many I've encountered. In the program I entered, there are zero med school fall-backs.

Here's the thing about "many" med school applicants and PA applicants- they tend to be doers. They don't talk about it, they do it. They keep going until they get in. Highly unlikely that "many" just gave up on their ambition to be a physician after putting in all the work and time for it. Are they out there, sure they are, but to paint the PA profession with a broad brush of med school washouts is intellectually dishonest. Also, admissions folks don't just open the gates of PA school for med school washouts; they tend to frown upon people who would consider their program a "fall back" and have a documented history of entry failure into med schools. Furthermore, PA programs tend to be under the umbrella of a university's school of medicine.

I hope that clears that up. You've already said you meant no disrespect to PAs/NPs in another thread... fool me once...

 

[SandpitMedic]

Misguided, albeit unintentional, views like that of DrParasite are the reason PA professional organizations are looking to rebrand themselves and there is a push to to make public outreach and relations a priority. Public confusion about PAs is a large part of why PAs struggle to make as large of gains as say... the nurses. There is a lot of misconception about what a PA is and what PAs do. Here again is a link to a website about the truth about PAs:

Get to Know Certified Physician Assistants - PAs Do That

Certified PAs are highly qualified members of health care teams that diagnose patients, prescribe medications and assist in surgeries.

pasdothat.net

Also, the tradition of PA school, invented by physicians, is to take people with medical experience such as military medics, paramedics, etc etc and turn them into physician extenders with the tools to practice medicine akin to that of a primary care physician. Many PA applicants and PAs are on their second or third career and come in with a lot of experience; do not undercut the value of experience in applying to PA schools. PA is an evolving career, and hopefully there is success in the push to display that to the masses. PAs are here to stay, and I would encourage pursuing it as a career move for those interested.

 

[Peak]

PAs are here to stay, and I would encourage pursuing it as a career move for those interested.

I suspect that the market for APPs, particularly FNP/AGNP/PNP/RNFA/PA, will be quite saturated for the near and foreseeable future. There are too many nurses who dislike the bedside and are going to NP school. Locally many NPs and PAs are stuggling to find jobs, especially outside of primary care.

 

[DrParasite]

Were you in PA school at some point? Did you apply to PA school? Do you hold PA licensure? Do you work for a PA program? Do you have personal experience in the admissions department for any PA schools?

No, yes, no, no, and my only experience in the admissions departments was the in person phone calls and interviews when I was looking to go to PA school.

Because if you do not answer yes to any of those questions I'm going to have to point out that you have absolutely zero credibility to make such statements. It's okay to stay in your lane. "I heard it from a bud" doesn't count.

See above. This isn't second hand gossip. And it's incredibly arrogant to tell me to "stay in my lane," and question my credibility on this topic, when your ignorance is showing by not even knowing what I have done in regards to PA school.

By the way, since you are claiming to be so knowledgeable, do you hold a PA license? what PA program you are in, and what program do you work for? Do you have any experience working in the admissions department for any PA schools?

I can assure you that there is more than one PA program, and while one cohort may have had such people - the vast majority of applicants are not "med school rejects." Having been through the process personally and knowing many PAs, students, and applicants I can assure that is not the case. I can probably count on one hand how many I've encountered. In the program I entered, there are zero med school fall-backs.

the program you entered might be different than the ones I looked at. I had many people who went from undergrad to PA school, and were also applying to med school, which PA being their fall back plan

I hope that clears that up. You've already said you meant no disrespect to PAs/NPs in another thread... fool me once...

So yeah, you know the old saying, if you have seen one PA program, you have seen one PA program....

Also, the tradition of PA school, invented by physicians, is to take people with medical experience such as military medics, paramedics, etc etc and turn them into physician extenders with the tools to practice medicine akin to that of a primary care physician. Many PA applicants and PAs are on their second or third career and come in with a lot of experience; do not undercut the value of experience in applying to PA schools. PA is an evolving career, and hopefully there is success in the push to display that to the masses. PAs are here to stay, and I would encourage pursuing it as a career move for those interested.

Many PA applicants have limited medical experience, and go from relative Zero to Hero. Yes, they are on their second or third career (I used to work with a retired cop who now worked as a PA in a trauma center), but there are also plenty of relatively young PAs with little medical experience.

If you can do it, great. I couldn't take 3 years off three years of my life while I was in school to become a PA (housing and food money needs to come from somewhere), so I went in another direction.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I suspect that the market for APPs, particularly FNP/AGNP/PNP/RNFA/PA, will be quite saturated for the near and foreseeable future.

Not even close. It may happen eventually, and there will always be local or regional exceptions, but nationwide there is already a shortage of primary care providers and that shortage (as well as that in other specialties) is expected to get much worse as so many physicians are reaching retirement age over the next decade.

 

[SandpitMedic]

We're going to have to agree to disagree @DrParasite. I'm a PA student - 70% through the program. My wife is also an APP, and our friends are APPs/physicians... If you think you know more about PAs and the work/education of PAs then there isnt much I can do to help that.

The bottom line is that painting PAs as med school rejects is not going to fly, despite the common knowledge that background experiences vary through every profession. I'm not sure that there are any other PA-C or PA-S board members here, but I suspect they would tell you the same thing if there were. Furthermore, on admissions, our admissions folks provide statistical data to those in the program, data that includes professional experience and formal educational background information... Med school reject/drop out was not in the majority of experiences. Yes, that is one program, but there is no data I've seen to verify your statement.

You are a firefighter- your subject matter expertise is not in advanced practice providers and their admissions/educational/professional statistics. It is not arrogance to point out when you make statements that you qualify by being "in the know" so to speak, because you don't know. Your lane departure was clearly obvious, and if you don't like being called on it then perhaps you should understand that you don't know what you don't know, and you don't have to say something just because you can. I'm trying to offer you some constructive criticism and be cordial. I wouldn't presume to tell you that all firemen are X, Y, or Z, nor would I insist I know all about professional firefighting or post in a thread in a matter-of-fact manner about becoming a fireman because I know some firemen and applied once.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Not even close. It may happen eventually, and there will always be local or regional exceptions, but nationwide there is already a shortage of primary care providers and that shortage (as well as that in other specialties) is expected to get much worse as so many physicians are reaching retirement age over the next decade.

Hits the nail squarely on the head.