Physician Assistant ?

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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Not even close. It may happen eventually, and there will always be local or regional exceptions, but nationwide there is already a shortage of primary care providers and that shortage (as well as that in other specialties) is expected to get much worse as so many physicians are reaching retirement age over the next decade.
True, if you want to live in the middle of nowhere and do primary care it is easy to get a job.

If you want to work in a specialty in a place that most people want to live in you are going to struggle to find a job.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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... is expected to get much worse as so many physicians are reaching retirement age over the next decade.
People have said that about all kinds of careers for a long time. Boomers don't retire as early as the previous generations do, and typically work at least part time or in a supervisory roll well past their 'retirement'. It's a looming threat I've been hearing about for at least the past 15 years.

There are also plenty of physicians, they just all want to specialize rather than work in primary care. We have so many that take a trtransitional just so that they can specialize rather than do a family practice or internal med residency.
 

E tank

Caution: Paralyzing Agent
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True, if you want to live in the middle of nowhere and do primary care it is easy to get a job.
If you want to work in a specialty in a place that most people want to live in you are going to struggle to find a job.
hmmm....who is 'you'? and where is 'the middle of nowhere'?
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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You: the job applicant.

The middle of nowhere: Where new grads don't want to or likely even think about living.
 

Carlos Danger

Forum Deputy Chief
Premium Member
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True, if you want to live in the middle of nowhere and do primary care it is easy to get a job.

If you want to work in a specialty in a place that most people want to live in you are going to struggle to find a job.
"Where MOST people WANT to live". Lol.

I'll just leave this here….

New Findings Confirm Predictions on Physician Shortage

"The projected shortage of between 46,900 and 121,900 physicians by 2032 includes both primary care (between 21,100 and 55,200) and specialty care (between 24,800 and 65,800)."

"The major factor driving demand for physicians continues to be a growing, aging population. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the nation’s population is estimated to grow by more than 10% by 2032, with those over age 65 increasing by 48%."
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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True, if you want to live in the middle of nowhere and do primary care it is easy to get a job.

If you want to work in a specialty in a place that most people want to live in you are going to struggle to find a job.
Oh man. You're an RN? Are you also an APRN? I mean... the value of input of everyone is appreciated, this is a discussion forum after all.
Although, I'm really having a struggle with people who are not in the positions they are talking about making these assertions.

There are regional differences, but there are jobs out there - even for new grads. In fact, many students who do well in their clinical rotations receive offers prior to graduation - in specialties, in places where people want to live. Many jobs posted on the web are secondary to the word-of-mouth system not rendering any interest or qualified applicants.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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"Where MOST people WANT to live". Lol.

I'll just leave this here….

New Findings Confirm Predictions on Physician Shortage

"The projected shortage of between 46,900 and 121,900 physicians by 2032 includes both primary care (between 21,100 and 55,200) and specialty care (between 24,800 and 65,800)."

"The major factor driving demand for physicians continues to be a growing, aging population. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the nation’s population is estimated to grow by more than 10% by 2032, with those over age 65 increasing by 48%."
It's the same dribble that's been said for over a decade. The AAMC is also a bit biased and has been pushing for more residency and med school spots for a long time, well before the boomer retirement crisis.

It is my understanding that you practice in a lower resource non-urban/metro hospital. I'm happy that you are happy where you are working. That being said most new APRNs/PAs/Docs don't want to work in a rural area... hence said shortage.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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Oh man. You're an RN? Are you also an APRN? I mean... the value of input of everyone is appreciated, this is a discussion forum after all.
Although, I'm really having a struggle with people who are not in the positions they are talking about making these assertions.

There are regional differences, but there are jobs out there - even for new grads. In fact, many students who do well in their clinical rotations receive offers prior to graduation - in specialties, in places where people want to live. Many jobs posted on the web are secondary to the word-of-mouth system not rendering any interest or qualified applicants.
I work with a lot of APRNs and PAs, and actually have several in my immediate family.

I've watched several friends, coworkers, and family struggle to find the job that they actually wanted. Several of our nurses are NPs, but can't find employment as NPs.

I also make more than our PAs in the ED and NPs in the unit. I work about the same number of hours and have far less stress. Until the math changes I won't be doing NP.
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
Premium Member
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That line is getting a bit old and lacks insight. I don't have to put feces in my mouth to know I wouldn't like the taste.
Your shortsightedness is getting old. If you are not a PA, NP/CRNA, physician, or student/applicant to any of the aforementioned... stop acting like you know everything about advance practice providers. You have no credibility - you don't know what you're talking about.

Here is the OP... None of this back and forth has anything to do with it.
What are peoples thoughts or experiences on becoming one from an ems background ?

What routes are out there for paramedics to study for the position ?
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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I work with a lot of APRNs and PAs, and actually have several in my immediate family.

I've watched several friends, coworkers, and family struggle to find the job that they actually wanted. Several of our nurses are NPs, but can't find employment as NPs.

I also make more than our PAs in the ED and NPs in the unit. I work about the same number of hours and have far less stress. Until the math changes I won't be doing NP.
That's great. You do you. Where you are it sounds like RNs have it pretty darn good and the APPs should seek employment elsewhere.
If you are only interested in a certain specialty, at a certain salary, in a certain location you will struggle to find work. That can be said for many professions to include medical careers. The market where you are sounds like a place I wouldn't want to be. Like you, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to the contrary - jobs are out there.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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Your shortsightedness is getting old. If you are not a PA, NP/CRNA, physician, or student/applicant to any of the aforementioned... stop acting like you know everything about advance practice providers. You have no credibility - you don't know what you're talking about.
You don't need to get defensive, I'm sure you'll find a job.

A lot of students whether in medicine, nursing, and other allied health careers are provided a very different view in school than the real world.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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That's great. You do you. Where you are it sounds like RNs have it pretty darn good and the APPs should seek employment elsewhere.
If you are only interested in a certain specialty, at a certain salary, in a certain location you will struggle to find work. That can be said for many professions to include medical careers. The market where you are sounds like a place I wouldn't want to be. Like you, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to the contrary - jobs are out there.
It's just economics. We have a shortage of experienced critical care nurses. We do not have a shortage of APPs.
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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You don't need to get defensive, I'm sure you'll find a job.
A lot of students whether in medicine, nursing, and other allied health careers are provided a very different view in school than the real world.
Thanks for the laugh - I'm very in touch with the real world. I'm not defensive- I'm telling you that you are flat out wrong, and clearly you have no interest in learning anything new. You insist you know best... the nurse who knows best about PAs, NPs, and docs despite conversing with a practicing advanced practice nurse and 2nd year PA student and despite actual data presented to you. I'll give you more credit than the fireman for at least being in the ER alongside PAs etc., but I hope people reading can sort the wheat from the chaff in this thread. Holy smokes.
It's just economics. We have a shortage of experienced critical care nurses. We do not have a shortage of APPs.
Yes, that makes sense, and in your neck of the woods we would call that microeconomics. Things are different elsewhere. Like I said, if I were you I would enjoy that and soak it up.
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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Do I need to smoke check myself? Am I the only one who thinks this is getting redundant?
I'm not the king of the PAs and I don't know everything, but this thread is about PAs... annnnnd I'm the only one here vocal that is in the PA world right now. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about. I think REMI does also. I'm always willing to take a lesson though, maybe I'm losing my edge- or maybe some folks just enjoy being difficult.
 

CCCSD

Forum Asst. Chief
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No need for a smoke check.
However...I’m not a PA. I did stay at a holiday inn once.

(note: I was an IDC while deployed and my PA kept 7-3. M-F office hours, while I ran the BAS 24/7).
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
Premium Member
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No need for a smoke check.
However...I’m not a PA. I did stay at a holiday inn once.

(note: I was an IDC while deployed and my PA kept 7-3. M-F office hours, while I ran the BAS 24/7).
Roger.
Holiday Inn must be banging right now with all the experts in this thread - time to buy stock! And I thank you for your service.
 

Carlos Danger

Forum Deputy Chief
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Your whole position sounds like that of someone who is trying to justify their decision not to advance their own education. I don't know if that's the case or not, and I really couldn't care less. However, if that is the case, you should understand that while making up trends about a field you don't work in might make you feel better about your decision, you really do lose credibility when you insist that you have a better understanding of those trends than the people whose paychecks depend on them. The fact that you make more money as an RN than APN's in your hospital is highly localized and has to do with state and local politics, not the greater trends in healthcare economics.

It's the same dribble that's been said for over a decade. The AAMC is also a bit biased and has been pushing for more residency and med school spots for a long time, well before the boomer retirement crisis.
Well, the "dribble" that you refer to has come to pass. I'm not sure what numbers you are looking at, but there is currently - and has been for some time - a real shortage of physicians, both primary care and specialist. Naturally, the shortage is more acute in some locales, and non-existent in others. We are talking about national trends. This most recent report simply predicts that the existing trend will accelerate.

The reason the AAMC has pushed for more seats is because they've known for decades that not enough physicians were being trained, and since they aren't puppets of the AMA like the ACGME is, they've tried to match seats to actual projected need. However, in their infinite and altruistic wisdom, the AMA (through the ACGME) has intentionally trained fewer physicians than they knew would be needed, and they did it in order to create a shortage and artificially inflate demand and compensation for doctors. This whole thing is not only real, but it's actually by design. What the AMA didn't count on is that they'd shoot themselves in the foot by creating as much demand for APN's as they did MD's.

It is my understanding that you practice in a lower resource non-urban/metro hospital. I'm happy that you are happy where you are working. That being said most new APRNs/PAs/Docs don't want to work in a rural area... hence said shortage.
While I personally choose to live in the sticks, my hospital is actually within an easy commute of one of the most desirable and fastest growing urban areas in the country, in one of the fastest growing states in the country. A city that has seen home values literally double in the past 5 years. In fact, two of my 5 colleagues commute daily from there.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
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Do I need to smoke check myself? Am I the only one who thinks this is getting redundant?
I'm not the king of the PAs and I don't know everything, but this thread is about PAs... annnnnd I'm the only one here vocal that is in the PA world right now. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about. I think REMI does also. I'm always willing to take a lesson though, maybe I'm losing my edge- or maybe some folks just enjoy being difficult.
Do you need to be a teacher to know that they are over worked and under paid? Do you need to be a career politician to be able to vote? Do you need to be a firearms expert to own a gun? Do you need to be an immunologist to known that vaccination reduces the spread of disease? Do you need to be a pharmacist to reconstitute a vial of protonix?

People don't necessarily need to have the exact same experience to have an informed opinion. To say that just because someone doesn't have the exact same experience as you can't possibly have valid insight is so sophomoric.
 

Peak

ED/Prehospital Registered Nurse
890
490
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Your whole position sounds like that of someone who is trying to justify their decision not to advance their own education. I don't know if that's the case or not, and I really couldn't care less. However, if that is the case, you should understand that while making up trends about a field you don't work in might make you feel better about your decision, you really do lose credibility when you insist that you have a better understanding of those trends than the people whose paychecks depend on them. The fact that you make more money as an RN than APN's in your hospital is highly localized and has to do with state and local politics, not the greater trends in healthcare economics.
Before I went to nursing school I strongly considered what healthcare fields I wanted to work in and spent quite a bit of time weighing the pros and the cons. I considered medical school, PA, nursing, pharmacy, and physical therapy. I choose nursing chiefly because of the opportunity to go advanced practice if I wanted to while also having the flexibility to easily change specialties. I have graduate education outside of the medical field, it just isn't in a field that I actually want to work in. Perhaps one day I'll go advanced practice, but right now it just doens't make sense for me and where I want to be in my life.

I disagree that I can't have an opinion that those who work in a field. Statistics do not become more or less valid based on personal experience.
While there are many factors that influence the pay scale of nurses and APPs, it isn't limited to just where I'm at. It is a trend in most growing metropolitan areas.

Well, the "dribble" that you refer to has come to pass. I'm not sure what numbers you are looking at, but there is currently - and has been for some time - a real shortage of physicians, both primary care and specialist. Naturally, the shortage is more acute in some locales, and non-existent in others. We are talking about national trends. This most recent report simply predicts that the existing trend will accelerate.
Those shortages are largely in areas that are difficult to find applicants for. They do exist, but people fail to mention that most provider shortages are in rural primary care.

While I personally choose to live in the sticks, my hospital is actually within an easy commute of one of the most desirable and fastest growing urban areas in the country, in one of the fastest growing states in the country. A city that has seen home values literally double in the past 5 years. In fact, two of my 5 colleagues commute daily from there.
So your do work in a rural area?

I know a CRNA who lives here and flies his Cessna to a different state to practice and then flies back here to his family. Just because you commute doesn't change the nature of the healthcare facility.
 

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