Patient is armed

DragonClaw

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(I'm a student, please correct me if I'm not right)

So say you respond to a scene, a victim of a is on the ground. I'm not sure if you guys check IDs or anything like that. But saying you did and he gives you a permit to carry a weapon. Maybe he used it, maybe not.

What if he's unconscience and you feel a gun or another weapon?

Or maybe he has a long gun with him he's not concealing.

How do you handle this? In states with and without permitless carry.
 

CANMAN

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You have like 10 different questions posed here and a bunch of different scenarios....

If you weren't aware of the potential of a weapon involved from your dispatch depending on the scenario you can continue to treat the patient and call for law enforcement to secure the weapon when they get there. If the guy is unconscious he's generally not going to be pulling his piece out on you.

If the situation is hostile in any way back out and wait for LE to secure the scene.

If it's a dude with a CCW permit and he's being reasonable and complaining of chest pain treat the patient and have LE secure the firearm when they get there.

If you think the patient used his pistol, long gun, flame thrower, etc to injure someone else at the scene and you just happen to roll up then get the hell outta dodge and call LE.

There's a trend here, involve LE, but if the person is cool, calm, and collected and it's not a firearm related issue don't make it one right off the bat.
 
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Akulahawk

EMT-P/ED RN
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You have like 10 different questions posed here and a bunch of different scenarios....

If you weren't aware of the potential of a weapon involved from your dispatch depending on the scenario you can continue to treat the patient and call for law enforcement to secure the weapon when they get there. If the guy is unconscious he's generally not going to be pulling his piece out on you.

If the situation is hostile in any way back out and wait for LE to secure the scene.

If it's a dude with a CCW permit and he's being reasonable and complaining of chest pain treat the patient and have LE secure the firearm when they get there.

If you think the patient used his pistol, long gun, flame thrower, etc to injure someone else at the scene and you just happen to roll up then get the hell outta dodge and call LE.

There's a trend here, involve LE, but if the person is cool, calm, and collected and it's not a firearm related issue don't make it one right off the bat.
If the person has a CCW and the person designates another person to handle the weapon, I'll let them make that arrangement as long as the weapon is cleared/safed. I'm in California and because of the way the laws/rules here are regarding LE taking possession of a firearm from someone, I'll try to let the patient make those arrangements if possible. Getting Law Enforcement to release a weapon is a very long process. They can't just return the gun to a lawful owner.

Now if the patient isn't conscious... well then I'm going to have LE secure the weapon. In that instance there's no way the patient can make the arrangements necessary. I also know that once I do that, it'll be about 4 months (at least) before the patient's firearm may legally be released.
 

CANMAN

Forum Asst. Chief
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If the person has a CCW and the person designates another person to handle the weapon, I'll let them make that arrangement as long as the weapon is cleared/safed. I'm in California and because of the way the laws/rules here are regarding LE taking possession of a firearm from someone, I'll try to let the patient make those arrangements if possible. Getting Law Enforcement to release a weapon is a very long process. They can't just return the gun to a lawful owner.

Now if the patient isn't conscious... well then I'm going to have LE secure the weapon. In that instance there's no way the patient can make the arrangements necessary. I also know that once I do that, it'll be about 4 months (at least) before the patient's firearm may legally be released.
Yup thats fair. Every state is going to have their own legalities to follow that will influence decision making. Personally if I'm unconscious I have bigger things to worry about then getting my CCW rig back lol. Yet another great reason to own more then one firearm :)
 

DesertMedic66

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For CCW holder who is being calm and not altered then I will let them make arrangements on how they would like to store their weapon and will assist them in that process.

Unconscious patient with a weapon? I will remove the weapon as soon as I find it and contact LEO to take control of it but I will not delay patient care. If needed I will lock it up in a secured cabinet in the ambulance and have LEO meet us at the hospital.

Aggressive patient or a patient in general holding a weapon when we get on scene will have me leave the scene and contact LEO to secure the scene.
 

PotatoMedic

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My question is... (And yes I know it is California) by why does it take months for pd to release a firearm back to the rightful owner is situations like this?
 

Akulahawk

EMT-P/ED RN
Community Leader
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My question is... (And yes I know it is California) by why does it take months for pd to release a firearm back to the rightful owner is situations like this?
The gun owner has to fill out a form (Law Enforcement Gun Release) with the DOJ. They then perform an eligibility check on the applicant, same check done as if it were a purchase, and then send the results to the applicant who must then present the result letter to the agency that is in control of the firearm(s). Once the applicant has that letter, that letter must be presented within 30 days of the date on the letter in order for the agency do the release otherwise the letter becomes invalid for the release. Here's why it takes so much time (months): while the applicant has a 30 day deadline (less in practice), the DOJ does not. The LEGR process is at the bottom in terms of priority. They can drag this process out for months without any penalty on them, and they do.
 

CCCSD

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That EMS world article on EMS carrying is pretty piss-poor. It provides nothing new.
 

Remi

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My question is... (And yes I know it is California) by why does it take months for pd to release a firearm back to the rightful owner is situations like this?
Because they have little respect for property rights in general, and even less respect for the universal right to self defense.

Thats the short answer, anyway.
 

MSDeltaFlt

Forum Deputy Chief
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(I'm a student, please correct me if I'm not right)

So say you respond to a scene, a victim of a is on the ground. I'm not sure if you guys check IDs or anything like that. But saying you did and he gives you a permit to carry a weapon. Maybe he used it, maybe not.

What if he's unconscience and you feel a gun or another weapon?

Or maybe he has a long gun with him he's not concealing.

How do you handle this? In states with and without permitless carry.

Depending on the state it may or may not be different. Down here in the Magnolia state firearms of any kind are not our concern to handle. So we don't. They are the concern of law enforcement.
 

DragonClaw

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Depending on the state it may or may not be different. Down here in the Magnolia state firearms of any kind are not our concern to handle. So we don't. They are the concern of law enforcement.
You're saying if there's an unconscious guy with some abdominal wound, you move the clothing and see a gun, holster or no, you ignore it?
 

MSDeltaFlt

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You're saying if there's an unconscious guy with some abdominal wound, you move the clothing and see a gun, holster or no, you ignore it?
EMS, fire, and law enforcement all have the same initial goal on scene with respect to our own individual expertise: scene safety. We hand the human body. Fire handles fire safety. Law enforcement violence and firearms. If there is a patient that has a wound there had better be someone with the job task of enforcing the law kinda handy (nearby). Let them handle the weapon and you handle the patient.
 

DragonClaw

Forum Lieutenant
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EMS, fire, and law enforcement all have the same initial goal on scene with respect to our own individual expertise: scene safety. We hand the human body. Fire handles fire safety. Law enforcement violence and firearms. If there is a patient that has a wound there had better be someone with the job task of enforcing the law kinda handy (nearby). Let them handle the weapon and you handle the patient.
I know it's a lot of hypotheticals, but assuming it wasn't violent crime, but an accident or illness?
 

MSDeltaFlt

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Irrelevant.
 

DesertMedic66

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Irrelevant.
The thread was started along the lines of we respond to a patient down who is altered or unconscious and during our assessment a firearm is located, what would you do?

In my area PD is not routinely sent out on medical calls. If we call them it can take anywhere from a minute to 30 minutes for them to get to us. So I can leave the scene because of the gun but doing so will leave this patient without medical attention for possibly 30 minutes. I could continue my assessment and leave the gun where it is, however I will never advocate for leaving an altered or unconscious patient armed. The likelihood they could become responsive enough to grab it is too risky in my book. The last option is I could remove the firearm and secure it and then continue with my patient care.
 
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