Parking on Scenes

I think we need to emphasize the everybody-dying part. We have lights pointing in all directions.
 
Personally, I don't really care. I will park wherever it is safest for me and my crew. However, I don't really have a preference. Spending so much time as a cop I am used to being in the back of the scene as the "sacrificial vehicle."

There is no real safe area on the freeway. I have seen medic crews that I assisted as a LEO tell the driver to pull off the freeway if there was a close exit and the driver was NOT the patient (obviously the patient can't be serious either). Not sure I would do this, but might be something to consider if conditions and circumstances allow it.

My main concern isn't being rear ended as I can't prevent that. My real concern is am I going to be in traffic? Is the shoulder wide enough to allow us to work without stepping into the lane of traffic? Does visibility allow oncoming motorists to see me? Am I at risk for causing secondary collisions by causing motorists to swerve around me? If I can't move the scene, can I close the road? Do I have a risk of drawing pedestrians or onlookers that may pose a safety risk?

There is no black and white answer. Establishing policies for this is moot and pointless. The best answer I can give is do what is best to make the scene as safe as possible. There will always be some amount of risk when working on a road. Use common sense.
 
I am of the opinion that if we are called on to a highway, we park the ambulance in the parking lot of the restaurant where we want to eat at.
 
Brandon Oto said:
Sooo... until you leave, you and the patient are blockers? To protect your ambulance?
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No, the cops are blockers
The Concept of blocking is a joke anyway. If a car hits a radio car, my ambulance, or another car at 65 mph its going to push the blocking vehicle into the accidenT
 
Bullets said:
No, the cops are blockers
The Concept of blocking is a joke anyway. If a car hits a radio car, my ambulance, or another car at 65 mph its going to push the blocking vehicle into the accidenT
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finally...

somebody gets it...
 
Bullets said:
No, the cops are blockers
The Concept of blocking is a joke anyway. If a car hits a radio car, my ambulance, or another car at 65 mph its going to push the blocking vehicle into the accidenT
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I agree that if other units are on scene, it's ideal to park "downroad" of the accident. But if nobody else is there yet, this is a dangerous interval and I'd rather have something between me and traffic. If the truck gets nailed, it may move, but not as much as the original missile.
 
After 10 minutes of this guy saying nothing, my adhd got the best of me and I had to find something else to do.

Is there a 30 word summary to this hour long thing?
 
Yeah, I park out of the way. Past the accident if I'm on the highway. We always get fire on MVAs and I'd rather have that big red truck get smashed... Not my little medic squad.
 
n7lxi said:
Yeah, I park out of the way. Past the accident if I'm on the highway. We always get fire on MVAs and I'd rather have that big red truck get smashed... Not my little medic squad.
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Water weighs 8.24lbs per gallon.

If that big red truck has 1000 gallons of water on it, that alone is 4.12 tons of safety net.

Think of those barrels of sand in front of some freeway fixtures, I would be very suprised to learn there is 4 tons of sand in there.

double axel ladder or rescue truck not as good as an engine for sure.
 
Brandon Oto said:
I agree that if other units are on scene, it's ideal to park "downroad" of the accident. But if nobody else is there yet, this is a dangerous interval and I'd rather have something between me and traffic. If the truck gets nailed, it may move, but not as much as the original missile.
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Have you ever seen an ambulance get hit in the box? Your truck wont move, it will basically disintegrate, its just plywood with an aluminum case

That said, ive never beaten the PD to an accident on a major highway. Maybe a two lane 45mph zone, but the Troopers always get to accident first. They drive those road far more often and know all the shortcuts

If anyone is in the area, the NJDOH EMS conference has Dr. Nadine Levick, who has done extensive research and offers a 90min presentation on ambulance safety. Its simply amazing how poorly the boxes are constructed
 
Bullets said:
That said, ive never beaten the PD to an accident on a major highway. Maybe a two lane 45mph zone, but the Troopers always get to accident first. They drive those road far more often and know all the shortcuts
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Your Troopers must be much more proactive than ours then...it's not unheard of for us to wait for NHP, SO or PD at traffic accidents.
 
NVRob said:
Your Troopers must be much more proactive than ours then...it's not unheard of for us to wait for NHP, SO or PD at traffic accidents.
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Same for us. We will often beat fire, police, CHP on scene of car accidents. Now those tow trucks are fast. I've had them beat me on scene a couple of times.
 
Bullets said:
Have you ever seen an ambulance get hit in the box? Your truck wont move, it will basically disintegrate, its just plywood with an aluminum case
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I hear what you're saying, but it's still a heavy vehicle. Have you seen a crash of this type, in real life or simulated? I'd love to see more data, because I'm sure there's something firmer than just conjecture out there.
 
NVRob said:
Your Troopers must be much more proactive than ours then...it's not unheard of for us to wait for NHP, SO or PD at traffic accidents.
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While our State Police does provide local police response to the sparsely populated areas of the state that have no municipal police force, mainly the Northwest and South, in my area they ONLY patrol the limited access highways.

So if there are accidents on the Parkway, Turnpike, or I-287, there is a Troop specifically assigned to those highways. All they do is traffic stops and and accident reports
 
Sorry, OP wasn't paying attention, but I'm back now!

Yeah, when I was debating whether to park in front or behind, I know that parking upstream won't provide physical protection, but does allow for greater visibility. It is worth noting AGAIN (since a lot of people didn't pick up on this fact) that there was NO ENGINE coming to the scene. It was a for a chest pain. The run was about 17 miles from the station and they were not pulling an engine that far out of district until we needed it. Perhaps we should just order an engine for all incidents on the highway, but we'll still always beat the engine since only EMTs staff the station at the time of day this happened (engine is staffed 7-4 M-F only).

Also, there are more medics in service than LEOs on duty at any given moment in this rural county so us arriving before the LEOs is highly likely.

Venicifeius: I agree with the whole not pulling into driveways thing, but for some reason, every single member of my rural department wants me to pull in. I started working in a urban environment, so I never pulled into a drive way, EVER, unless it was to back into the driveway because I had a dead end in front of me. That way, I had a backer on the way in, and I can pull out forwards on the way back. Here, everyone just pulls in forward. The rationale is that the roads out here are at speed limits of 55 so it's more dangerous to be on the side of the road, but I still don't understand why we don't pull in backward. Because now when they stick me in the driver seat to pull out, it's pitch black outside and I can't see a damn thing behind me. I have trouble pulling out in the light, you can't make me pull out in the dark! I can't tell you the number of times I have hit low hanging tree limbs or trash cans because I tried to pull out late at night! Usually I now just get a backer to watch me pull out, but that's not always possible if we have a 2 man crew...

[/rant]

Also, for anyone who cares, yes the boxes are weak, but they are probably stronger than you think. We took a hit to the side door of the box with the driver at 80 mph (although he braked so maybe closer to 60 at time of impact). While his little chevy was totaled, our box had a dent about 3 inches deep and 4 feet wide by maybe 2 feet high.
 
WuLabsWuTecH said:
The rationale is that the roads out here are at speed limits of 55 so it's more dangerous to be on the side of the road
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I don't buy this at all.

They may believe it, but a big road obstacle that takes up at least 1/2 the road with reflective paint and flashing lights is something you might actually want to slow down for.

WuLabsWuTecH said:
Also, for anyone who cares, yes the boxes are weak, but they are probably stronger than you think. We took a hit to the side door of the box with the driver at 80 mph (although he braked so maybe closer to 60 at time of impact). While his little chevy was totaled, our box had a dent about 3 inches deep and 4 feet wide by maybe 2 feet high.
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I think there are far too many variables to attribute this to the strength of the box.

Not least of which is the construction of his little chevy.

When you are talking about freeway traffic striking a box it is not the little fiberglass vehicles I worry about.

Most ambulances are at least a truck frame. The sheet metal box is definately the winner in metal vs. plastic.

However, I still doubt very much the currently constructed boxes will fare so well against an SUV, another light truck, and certainly not against an 18 wheeler. After almost being hit by an 18 wheeler on a freeway very early in my career I might be a little more wary of this scenario)
 
well, when I'm in charge, we park out on the road unless there's going to be a walk of more than a football field in length. If that's the case, generally the drive has a turnaround built into it. I think some of it is at least attributed to the laziness of people who don't want to walk up the long drive while having to carry the cot (since most drives that long are gravel and our cot won't roll) and then they are just so used to doing it that when we respond within the city limits they are just used to pulling in so they do it.

But my suspicion is now that you have mentioned this, and that I have realized that no one has ever asked me to pull in when I am in charge, it's less of a safety issue and more of a laziness issue... If it were a safety issue, someone might at least make the suggestion...
 
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