Parking on Scenes

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Question:

On a recent call, we were called out to a controlled access freeway for a chest pain. A debate later ensued as to where we should have parked. Some voted for behind the vehicle that was pulled off to the right to increase visibility, others voted for in front so we could be protected from errant vehicles. What are your thoughts on this?

Usually I'm only on the freeway for MVAs and we park behind the vehicles or to the side of them because an engine is coming in behind us to block us anyway. If I can pull safely around, I'll go in front of the vehicle for better egress, better stretches access, and behind the scene I'll have an engine blocking for us anyway. If for whatever reason the engines are out and we're waiting for mutual aid (which takes about 20-30 minutes to get here) then I'll park to the side of the accident to block all access on the road until more apparatus show up to direct traffic around the scene (at which point they can move my medic to a more appropriate location). I do this purely out of scene safety and preventing traffic from hitting me. the LEOs don't like it too much, but they always have the option of showing up and directing traffic themselves

 

[Tigger]

Ideally we should pull past the incident. I don't like loading the stretcher with my back to traffic with my truck also being the "blocker." I also don't like being out of the truck without anything protecting me from traffic. Kind of a lose lose I suppose. If I can tell the patient is out of the car when I pull up then we'll go past and use their vehicle as some semblance of protection.

So in short, I guess I don't know. I don't take many calls on more than 2 lane roads and I'm never alone so hmmm.

 

[DesertMedic66]

If I'm first on scene the ambulance goes behind the car and is used as the sacrificial vehicle until fire or highway patrol arrives. By the time I am loading the patient into the ambulance either fire or highway patrol is there and uses their vehicle as the sacrificial vehicle.

 

[Shishkabob]

If we're the only unit going to be on scene, I like to park behind if I'm going to spend any time at the car so that I have SOMETHING blocking.

If it's something like an MVC and FD will show up, I'll park in front so we're better protected.

 

[abckidsmom]

I always ask for an engine when we respond to the highway. I do not like working on the side of the highway without the scene being protected.

If there is no engine coming and we're going to a medical on the highway, I pull past the vehicle and get over further on the side than the car that's pulled off and say to myself that the vehicle the patient was in is protecting us when we're loading the stretcher in the back of the ambulance.

Cause you know, saying it to yourself helps a lot.

And after a close call once, I've got high anxiety about working on the side of the highway. I'm no cop, and never will be.

 

[Jambi]

I always ask for an engine when we respond to the highway. I do not like working on the side of the highway without the scene being protected.

If there is no engine coming and we're going to a medical on the highway, I pull past the vehicle and get over further on the side than the car that's pulled off and say to myself that the vehicle the patient was in is protecting us when we're loading the stretcher in the back of the ambulance.

Cause you know, saying it to yourself helps a lot.

And after a close call once, I've got high anxiety about working on the side of the highway. I'm no cop, and never will be.

I guess we're spoiled here as there is always a fire response when any 911 call is generated. It has its drawbacks, but there's also its uses...meh

FWIW, I park behind as a blocking maneuver unless others are on scene already and doing so. Then I park in front of.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Company policy says we don't use our transport units as shields.

With that said, I'd rather my ambulance gets totaled and have to call for a second unit than me. I'll deal with the repercussions later. Unless fire is already on scene or right behind me, then I park past the accident.

 

[Veneficus]

once upon a time...

I sat through a 4 hour seminar on vehicle placement at the first fire conference I went to.

At the time I remember thinking that what was being discussed was so intuitive that somebody must be really ambitious to make a 4 hour presentation.

But every place that I have worked in fire/EMS except one had no idea and still have no idea of the concepts presented.

Like: don't pull into a driveway, not only can you be blocked in, but you increase the risk of accident while backing out.

I have many time preached "walking up" as it is called in the fire service. It always falls on deaf ears in EMS. I even had one partner leave me with a critical patient to pull the truck head in into a driveway that was soft ground.

But to the op.

A freeway response should be a coordinated respose. Even if multiple agencies are involved.

Since scene safety is your first priority, somebody should be assigned to diverting oncoming traffic, by placing the appropriate warning devices.

People should be wearing the proper gear, which includes specific color and reflective material. Better still if it is rip away.

If the patient has to wait while the scene is made as safe as possible, then they have to wait.

Blocking with an ambulance is almost laughable. Most boxes are sheet metal and plywood. So you basically have an engine and a frame as your barrier. If hit it will most likely disintigrate. That which is left can be pushed into the accident at freeway speeds.

I have witnessed on many occasions transport units getting boxed in. Not getting boxed in needs to be a priority of transport vehicle placement.

FDs like to block roads and cops like to keep traffic flowing. These competing interests can cause a lot of on scene friction. A plan should be worked out at the agency level ahead of time.

Now that I have filled your head with details...

I would pull past the scene, attempt to make it safe, and wait for help. Not being able to see oncoming traffic because vision is blocked by the squad, with nobody specifically looking out for safety is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you are going to be killed in EMS, the freeway is the most likely place. (well perhaps second to airmed depending on the year)

 

[abckidsmom]

I sat through a 4 hour seminar on vehicle placement at the first fire conference I went to.

At the time I remember thinking that what was being discussed was so intuitive that somebody must be really ambitious to make a 4 hour presentation.

But every place that I have worked in fire/EMS except one had no idea and still have no idea of the concepts presented.

Like: don't pull into a driveway, not only can you be blocked in, but you increase the risk of accident while backing out.

I have many time preached "walking up" as it is called in the fire service. It always falls on deaf ears in EMS. I even had one partner leave me with a critical patient to pull the truck head in into a driveway that was soft ground.

But to the op.

A freeway response should be a coordinated respose. Even if multiple agencies are involved.

Since scene safety is your first priority, somebody should be assigned to diverting oncoming traffic, by placing the appropriate warning devices.

People should be wearing the proper gear, which includes specific color and reflective material. Better still if it is rip away.

If the patient has to wait while the scene is made as safe as possible, then they have to wait.

Blocking with an ambulance is almost laughable. Most boxes are sheet metal and plywood. So you basically have an engine and a frame as your barrier. If hit it will most likely disintigrate. That which is left can be pushed into the accident at freeway speeds.

I have witnessed on many occasions transport units getting boxed in. Not getting boxed in needs to be a priority of transport vehicle placement.

FDs like to block roads and cops like to keep traffic flowing. These competing interests can cause a lot of on scene friction. A plan should be worked out at the agency level ahead of time.

Now that I have filled your head with details...

I would pull past the scene, attempt to make it safe, and wait for help. Not being able to see oncoming traffic because vision is blocked by the squad, with nobody specifically looking out for safety is a disaster waiting to happen.

If you are going to be killed in EMS, the freeway is the most likely place. (well perhaps second to airmed depending on the year)

Amen.

 

[Veneficus]

and another thing while it is on my mind...

People cannot see from darkness through light into darkness.

Especially when working on the freeway at night, be especially mindful when passing parked emergency vehicles with warning lights operating.

Always remember if there is a "blocking unit" drivers cannot see people on the other side (you) until they actually enter the light field in a vehicle traveling at 30+ MPH. (which is only feet before they hit you)

 

[abckidsmom]

People cannot see from darkness through light into darkness.

Especially when working on the freeway at night, be especially mindful when passing parked emergency vehicles with warning lights operating.

Always remember if there is a "blocking unit" drivers cannot see people on the other side (you) until they actually enter the light field in a vehicle traveling at 30+ MPH. (which is only feet before they hit you)

I just love saying "be mindful" and hearing people say it. The mental picture that comes with that phrase is so funny.

 

[Veneficus]

I just love saying "be mindful" and hearing people say it. The mental picture that comes with that phrase is so funny.

What is the mental picture?

How can you say something like that and leave it there?

 

[abckidsmom]

What is the mental picture?

How can you say something like that and leave it there?

I just imagine having your mind full of something like "you are standing in the dark and cars can't see you" or "if you walk on the roof and you didn't sound it, you will fall into the fire and die" and people being paralyzed with fear in such situations, turning especially useless.

But I'm weird. I know that.

And that's probably how I can just say something like that and leave it there.

 

[Veneficus]

I just imagine having your mind full of something like "you are standing in the dark and cars can't see you" or "if you walk on the roof and you didn't sound it, you will fall into the fire and die" and people being paralyzed with fear in such situations, turning especially useless..

What kind of people do you work with?

 

[abckidsmom]

What kind of people do you work with?

Most of them are really cool. Some are just flat useless. Others are just intelligent enough to be scary. For reference, see my thread about seat belts. It's been a week I don't care to repeat in the area of OMG, What Kind Of People Do I Work With?

 

[Veneficus]

Most of them are really cool. Some are just flat useless. Others are just intelligent enough to be scary. For reference, see my thread about seat belts. It's been a week I don't care to repeat in the area of OMG, What Kind Of People Do I Work With?

I need to write a book...

But I would have to change the names to protect the guilty.

 

[abckidsmom]

I need to write a book...

But I would have to change the names to protect the guilty.

I was out at the hospital and called my partners who'd handled another call while I was being the medic assist on that call to come and get me when they cleared. They were all, "Are you OK? Is something wrong?" and I told them we'd talk when they came and got me. When I got in the truck, I said "FML, OMG, WTF!" and they said when I went all facebook on them, they knew it was for real.

I love my job, but the lack of thought involved in so many people's work effort is just debilitating.

 

[Bullets]

Always pull past the incident. makes leaving easier, and the involved car and the cops are my blocker

No FD unless its an extrication and they have to be there for fire suppression, otherwise they usually cause more problems then they solve and cause headaches, to the point they are arrested

 

[Brandon O]

Always pull past the incident. makes leaving easier, and the involved car and the cops are my blocker

Sooo... until you leave, you and the patient are blockers? To protect your ambulance?

 

[JPINFV]

Sooo... until you leave, you and the patient are blockers? To protect your ambulance?

On the other hand, the ambulance can put light on the scene, you're not loading into traffic, and you can use the shoulder to get up to speed so you can merge into traffic.