OKC Johntv vid -A suspected street prostitute treated suspiciously by EMS

[Anjel]

I do take back what i said. Its not my place to judge what was going on. I should know better.

 

[Chimpie]

I also strongly suspect that the bystander in the blue sweatshirt works for EMSA or is connected to them somehow. He appeared to know what he was doing, PD listened to him when they first got on scene, fire didn't chase him off, and he approached the amb when it got on scene and appeared to be familiar with the people on it.

I picked up on that as well the first time I watched the video. Police didn't seem to mind he was there, neither did Fire. My guess either EMS or Police. He just has the "cop look" to him.

h34r:

 

[medicsb]

I do take back what i said. Its not my place to judge what was going on. I should know better.

I'm glad you came to that conclusion. We all need to step back and give a benefit of the doubt to crews who get caught on tape OR are reported on in the press. We ALL make mistakes, we all do things that others would question. Fortunately, we are usually not videotaped and subject to national scrutiny. I've seen the atrocious comments by other medics and EMTs on other sites, and it's depressing; I/we can't count on other medics and EMTs to offer any more consideration than Joe and Jane Public. I could follow any monday morning QB with a camera and catch them doing something that doesn't look any better than this. I know we tend to have big egos and would like to think we're better than most, but we need to realize and admit that we do make mistakes and do things that in hind-sight should have been done differently. We need to avoid hanging our colleagues out to dry when the whole story is unknown, especially when we know there are so many variable to be considered that we may never know.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I also strongly suspect that the bystander in the blue sweatshirt works for EMSA or is connected to them somehow. He appeared to know what he was doing, PD listened to him when they first got on scene, fire didn't chase him off, and he approached the amb when it got on scene and appeared to be familiar with the people on it.

Looks like there is some sort of a badge/patch on his sweatshirt as well, I definitely agree with you.

 

[Aidey]

I don't think he is a cop, he touched the patient without gloves on, and seemed more familiar with the EMSA people. I tried to get a good look at the logo. It kind of looks like a wheel with only 3 spokes. It is also a full zip up hoodie. Neither the logo or style are what I would expect from a FD sweatshirt.

I think his presence, and the fact he had probably already determined she was alive and responded to verbal stimuli, lowered the sense to urgency the camera people seemed to think was missing.

 

[Nervegas]

I'm glad someone posted this up. The original video was edited for content to support the publishers claims. Agreed they could have handled it better from what we can see without hearing the assessment or knowing the actual situation but I'm not going to monday morning quarterback it.

I don't see how we ask to be professionals when we ridicule our "brothers and sisters", as the fire service puts it, with little more than a video posted on the internet.

I absolutely agree, my qualm is the using a foot to push her (the cop), taking photos (We all know better even if it isnt "department" policy it violates HIPAA) and how they handled her (IE the dragging her about like a rag doll), I realize that it might just be another "drunk" or "OD" call, but its still a person and our responsibility to act with the utmost professionalism. How Joe and Jane public view us is vastly important to our profession and being able to get the funds necessary in order to grow it.

 

[bigbaldguy]

Just a thought but the responders act a bit like they know this patient. Could be a frequent flier and they respond to her like this all the time. I'm not saying that this excuses their sloppy handling of the situation but I think many of us have had patients where we went in knowing (or at least having a very good idea) of what we were going to find. If this was the umteenth time they had been called out to this woman it might explain their less then urgent attitude.

It's even possible this wasn't the first time they had dealt with her that same day. We once had a patient we were called to evaluate 3 times in 6 hours. The first two times he wasn't altered enough to justify us taking him in and he refused treatment, then sure enough on the last call he was in much the same condition as this woman and we transported.

 

[medic417]

I absolutely agree, my qualm is the using a foot to push her (the cop), taking photos (We all know better even if it isnt "department" policy it violates HIPAA) and how they handled her (IE the dragging her about like a rag doll), I realize that it might just be another "drunk" or "OD" call, but its still a person and our responsibility to act with the utmost professionalism. How Joe and Jane public view us is vastly important to our profession and being able to get the funds necessary in order to grow it.

Where does HIPPA say you may not take pictures?

 

[Sasha]

Hipaa?

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk

 

[Ridryder911]

Before you judge, take in consider, I even recognized her.. she's a regular and very known of faking unresponsiveness (anyone noticed her leg in remaining in an upright bent position). That is why, everyone stood around.. with 4 Paramedics and at least 3 EMT's on the scene I'm sure they are very able to recognize a real lifeless person!
What you want them to do.. place an OP in to make her gag? Anyone notice the HOB elevated? .. there was a reason.. she was really awake and breathing fine..

Work the Southside a while, making 10-12 calls in a 12 hour shift on prositutes and you become very familar with them. They get mad at their John's and if you want to get OB experience, work that side as well.. (crank induces delivery = one can work the street sooner) Sorry, but when I worked that area, I delivered over 10 crank babies in 2 months..

JohnTv is a good idea, but he likes the fame and glory to sell adds.. and seriously in his past years has not reduced or changed anything..


p.s HIPPA does not include FD/ or Police (unless they have electronic billing) and OKC FD does not bill.
R/r911

 

[DV_EMT]

Before you judge, take in consider, I even recognized her.. she's a regular and very known of faking unresponsiveness

Really??

As far as HIPAA is concerned, you can take a picture so long as you blur out a face and make sure they're name and personal info is not released. However, It's not professional to take pictures while on the clock unless you're given consent because of how awesome something looks. Surely Trauma: Life in the ER isn't violating HIPAA

 

[Sasha]

Known or unknown, faker or not faker... The fact she is dragged around like a rag doll is pretty crappy.

 

[akflightmedic]

I watched the video twice before I understood why they spun her around.

You do not appreciate the grade of the hill they are on unless you specifically watch everyone's feet and body stances.

When they arrived, she was head tilted down, they actually did her a favor by spinning her around so her head would higher than her body while they performed the rest of the assessment.

The cops with hands in pocket is insane. The one who nudged her with his foot is a fool...my assessment on him is he is a volunteer since he is not wearing anything other than a POLICE shirt. No belt, no weapons and seems clueless about the entire scene other than "it is cool" to nudge the faker and follow everyone else's leads...he did not take pics until the FD did.

 

[akflightmedic]

Went back and watched again.

I have no issue with how they moved or carried her. They did a proper extremity carry on a graded slope. Split the work between 4 people instead of trying to manage dead weight with a 2 person carry.

Once on the stretcher, they secured her and sat her up. Upon realizing they had not placed her high enough on stretcher, they laid it flat and repositioned her again, then secured the straps. Seems like a lot of people thought of and provided several comfort measures for the faker...

Main issue is the perception of unprofessionalism by the foot nudging, cameras and hand in pockets.

 

[Sasha]

I watched the video twice before I understood why they spun her around.

You do not appreciate the grade of the hill they are on unless you specifically watch everyone's feet and body stances.

When they arrived, she was head tilted down, they actually did her a favor by spinning her around so her head would higher than her body while they performed the rest of the assessment.

The cops with hands in pocket is insane. The one who nudged her with his foot is a fool...my assessment on him is he is a volunteer since he is not wearing anything other than a POLICE shirt. No belt, no weapons and seems clueless about the entire scene other than "it is cool" to nudge the faker and follow everyone else's leads...he did not take pics until the FD did.

They may have done her a favor by turning her around but there are ways to do it where you're not dragging the woman around.

 

[akflightmedic]

An extremity carry is in every textbook and her head was lifted by their technique.

Get over the emotional/dramatic aspect and realize that the technique was not wrong and did not harm the patient.

 

[MMiz]

It's frustrating to see forum members rationalize poor care by trained public servants. We've all had fakers and frequent flyers. We've all worked that call at the end of a long shift that we don't want to take. That's EMS!

Taking a picture isn't necessarily a HIPAA issue, but it may violate department policy.

The apparent inaction, poor excuse for assessing the patient's condition, and the cell phone pictures don't reflect positively on the profession. Sure EMS isn't as glamorous as the public expects, but surely they would be acting differently if it were a family member.

 

[Shishkabob]

taking photos (We all know better even if it isnt "department" policy it violates HIPAA)

Police aren't bound by HIPAA.

Agencies that don't use electronic billing aren't bound by HIPAA (Does OKC Fire bill for service?). EDIT: Reading Rids post, they don't. Therefor they aren't bound by HIPAA. Only EMSA in this video is.




No where in HIPAA does it say you can't take photos... it says you can't release PHI or patient identifiers. If pictures weren't allowed, textbooks would be quite bland.

 

[akflightmedic]

It's frustrating to see forum members rationalize poor care by trained public servants.

Rationalize?? Or empathize cause we have been there done that?

We are human, we all make poor judgement calls. Work EMS long enough and you will slip up. Run a few thousand calls year after year and statistically you will do the same at some point in time as all the elements necessary will converge.

Lambast people here for speaking honestly and not acting holier than thou...that is dishonest.

 

[medicsb]

I'm beginning to believe that the majority of "EMTs" and "medics" getting up in arms over this either haven't been doing the job long or have never worked some place busy. She DID get assessed and she got transported. The only thing that is really questionable is the pictures for which there could have been a legitimate reason to take them. It doesn't appear that there was anything for them to do except take her to the hospital, which they did.

Too many monday-morning quaterbacks here and elsewhere. Too many holier-than-thou types in EMS. That is why the profession will never go anywhere - too many people busy thinking about themselves instead of the whole. Too many can't even provide any more courtesy to their colleagues than some ignorant viewer at home. I find the EMS communities response to the video to be far more despicable than anything depicted in the video.