Oh OCFA...

[FoleyArtist]

So this perplexed me and my partner. We've naturally always seen it but never questioned it. Why does certain OCFA stations run fully equipped medic ambulances to respond to calls and yet never transport and still wait for a private BLS ambulance to come and transport them? We figured it probably had to do with OC policies or just more personnel to tone out and bill the patient with haha. Anyone have a real answer though?

 

[NYMedic828]

On call fire...agency?

What's ofca

 

[FoleyArtist]

On call fire...agency?

What's ofca

Sorry my questions was geared more towards someone local. Ocfa is Orange County Fire Authority. It's the county fire service for Orange County, California

 

[NYMedic828]

So this perplexed me and my partner. We've naturally always seen it but never questioned it. Why does certain OCFA stations run fully equipped medic ambulances to respond to calls and yet never transport and still wait for a private BLS ambulance to come and transport them? We figured it probably had to do with OC policies or just more personnel to tone out and bill the patient with haha. Anyone have a real answer though?

Considering you claim they call a BLS ambulance to transport, odds are their medic ambulance has determined the patient does not require more than a taxi ride and as such they don't want to short themselves resources if they need their medic ambulance for the next one...

Resource management is important...

 

[Anjel]

We have a city that we run with. Their medics show up in their truck. Then take their pt and their equipment and their medic and put them in our truck and we drive them to the hospital.

The city voted no on them getting licensed to bill and transport themselves. Apparently it saves them money somehow. So we bill and give them 75% and we take the other 25.

 

[FoleyArtist]

Considering you claim they call a BLS ambulance to transport, odds are their medic ambulance has determined the patient does not require more than a taxi ride and as such they don't want to short themselves resources if they need their medic ambulance for the next one...

Resource management is important...

Oh I sorry I must clarify. Regardless of ALS or BLS. If ALS they all hop on the BLS ambulance and transport in then their medic ambulance picks them up to go back to the fire station. Does that sounds screwy? If so I explained it correct haha. The ocfa medic ambulance is strictly to responds to calls. No transports I've ever seen. Operates like a medic squad vehicle.

 

[DrParasite]

I know I'm not from the area, but I know how to google, and lo and behold, after 20 seconds of looking, I found this:

Medical Emergencies
The standard OCFA response to a medical emergency is a paramedic engine or a paramedic van, accompanied by an engine. Your safety and well being is the reason we assign an extra unit to these calls. Medical emergencies often require more than two or three firefighters and we want to make sure we have all the equipment and personnel necessary to take care of your situation.

Commercial Ambulance Transportation to Hospitals
If your medical emergency requires you to be transported to a hospital, a commercial (private) ambulance company will be utilized for this purpose. There is a charge if you are transported to a hospital in a commercial ambulance. The OCFA does not staff ambulances. However, our paramedic vans are often mistaken for ambulances. The Cities of San Clemente and Westminster provide ambulance transportation services and patients are billed for this service.

http://www.ocfa.org/menu/departments/Operations/OperationsResponds.aspx

 

[FoleyArtist]

We have a city that we run with. Their medics show up in their truck. Then take their pt and their equipment and their medic and put them in our truck and we drive them to the hospital.

The city voted no on them getting licensed to bill and transport themselves. Apparently it saves them money somehow. So we bill and give them 75% and we take the other 25.

Oh I see maybe that's the case here too. Cheaper to contract out huh? Interesting

 

[FoleyArtist]

I know I'm not from the area, but I know how to google, and lo and behold, after 20 seconds of looking, I found this:

http://www.ocfa.org/menu/departments/Operations/OperationsResponds.aspx

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and is staffed and equipped as an ambulance with a gurney. It's a van. I hate SoCal EMS. No wonder we're all just ambulance drivers

Thanks. I googled but apparently I didnt read that at all.

 

[Thricenotrice]

Ocfa medic vans have the capability and the ability to transport a pt.
contracting out is most likely significantly cheaper. The contracting agencies take care of billing patients so that cuts on government staffing right there.

That, and it probably has to do with staffing. And just an FYI, not all medics are on vans. Only a select few. Some are paramedic assessment units (engines, non transporting, no narcs). Others are Paramedic engines, which have all of the drugs and equipment(haha I just said ALL drugs... It's like 15) and will hop off and jump in with the private company in case of ALS.

 

[FoleyArtist]

Ocfa medic vans have the capability and the ability to transport a pt.
contracting out is most likely significantly cheaper. The contracting agencies take care of billing patients so that cuts on government staffing right there.

That, and it probably has to do with staffing. And just an FYI, not all medics are on vans. Only a select few. Some are paramedic assessment units (engines, non transporting, no narcs). Others are Paramedic engines, which have all of the drugs and equipment(haha I just said ALL drugs... It's like 15) and will hop off and jump in with the private company in case of ALS.

Thanks for that. So if not all vans have a medic than is the van there to meet the first responder county required on scene times?

"By county standards, a first responder is to be on scene in five minutes and a two-paramedic team within 10 minutes in 90 percent of cases..."
http://voiceofoc.org/healthy_communities/article_5a98add8-71cd-11e1-9031-001871e3ce6c.html

The article is a tangent but I wanted to quote the scene time.

 

[socalmedic]

think of a paramedic van as a squad. they have vans because when they took over city fire services from citys that had their own ambulances they where required to maintain the same services. however the county has bid out all the areas which dont have 202 rights (municipal rights to transport) to private companies. if OCFA wants to transport on their own they will have to bid on an EOA.

Edit: to address the most recent comment, all vans have at least one paramedic on them, they supplement the assessment engines which also have one paramedic on them to bring the number of paramedics to two.

vans = 1 paramedic
Paramedic Assessment Engine = 1 paramedic
Paramedic Squad = 2 paramedics
Paramedic Engine = 2 paramedics
Medic Truck = could be either 1 or 2
Engine = BLS
Ambulance = BLS

 

[JPINFV]

Or OCFA is ran by (edited) bags...

MEDIC VAN:
An ambulance type vehicle staffed with two certified paramedics. This unit carries a full complement of paramedic equipment. Under extreme conditions or when fire personnel are injured, these units are used to transport patients.

[emphasis added]
http://www.ocfa.org/Menu/Home/FireTerms.aspx


I don't think I'll ever understand how EMS is ran in OC is considered "efficient," especially since the fire engine has to drive to the hospital to pick up the paramedics anyways. Mind you this is the same county that doesn't allow private companies to run paramedics.

 

[Chris07]

Or OCFA is ran by (edited) bags...

[emphasis added]
http://www.ocfa.org/Menu/Home/FireTerms.aspx


I don't think I'll ever understand how EMS is ran in OC is considered "efficient," especially since the fire engine has to drive to the hospital to pick up the paramedics anyways. Mind you this is the same county that doesn't allow private companies to run paramedics.

In other words...they take of their own better than they do the public.

If Capt. Doe has chest pain at a structure fire they'd probably end up transporting him in the medic van rather than waiting for a private ambulance to show up, but if Mrs. Smith at the local nursing home has chest pain, they wait for the private ambulance which arrives code 2, since the OCFA does not allow ambulances to respond code 3 to 911 calls unless specifically requested by the fire department on scene. (End massive run-on sentence, lol)

I can't believe I'm saying this...but I think LA County is slightly more efficient :S

 

[Thricenotrice]

La county is roughly the same

La city is more efficient (transport their own)

 

[Amberlamps916]

Ahhh Inglewood. Where the LA County medics would sag their turnout pants and have "The Wood" plastered over everything.

 

[Ckjibber]

In other words...they take of their own better than they do the public.

If Capt. Doe has chest pain at a structure fire they'd probably end up transporting him in the medic van rather than waiting for a private ambulance to show up, but if Mrs. Smith at the local nursing home has chest pain, they wait for the private ambulance which arrives code 2, since the OCFA does not allow ambulances to respond code 3 to 911 calls unless specifically requested by the fire department on scene. (End massive run-on sentence, lol)

I can't believe I'm saying this...but I think LA County is slightly more efficient :S

This is not the case. I took an on duty OCFA firefighter with chest pains via private ambo to the hospital on one particular call. Trust me when I say the patients and medics are much more comfortable riding in a Doctor's or CARE ambulance mods than that 90's something medic vans.

 

[Tigger]

In other words...they take of their own better than they do the public.

If Capt. Doe has chest pain at a structure fire they'd probably end up transporting him in the medic van rather than waiting for a private ambulance to show up, but if Mrs. Smith at the local nursing home has chest pain, they wait for the private ambulance which arrives code 2, since the OCFA does not allow ambulances to respond code 3 to 911 calls unless specifically requested by the fire department on scene. (End massive run-on sentence, lol)

I can't believe I'm saying this...but I think LA County is slightly more efficient :S

How commonly doe the FD unit on scene ask for an emergent response to the scene? Hopefully for a chest pain call they're doing it every time, though lights and sirens really do not save that much time.

Here we have a similar system in some neighborhoods. Two areas with a high medical call volume have FD ambulances in the station with the engine. The ambulances respond first and the next call gets a medic engine (in the rest of the city it's just the medic engine). An AMR unit responds to every medical call as well, so in some areas there are two paramedic ambulances on scene, one from each agency. The FD almost never transports unless they are on-scene of a structure fire and an FF gets injured since they are responsible for fireground rehab. I do not see this as preferential treatment, AMR has a unit on scene for civilians at fires as well. The FD only uses ambulances for this role because they think it lends well to a rehab vehicle.

 

[Thricenotrice]

About once per 24 for me. Sometimes much more, sometimes none.

And to answer your question, RARELY on CP, and almost never on CVAs

 

[ToyotaTruck]

I have not decided which system is more efficient LA responding code 3 everywhere, or OC responding code 2 almost everywhere (did have exception today for depression dunno why).

I can tell you which is more fun though!