Officer goes hands on on medic on scene.

Also, as an aside, why are the firefighters pants unzipped. I understand they are turnouts and he's got something on underneath, but if you wanted to look unprofessional, just wear a carrot top wig to every scene.

[/rant]

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ki now officially blame everybody. NPO said it, ill say it too, this was probably the worst scene management i've ever seen. This will be one of those moments teachers/instructors show "Do not let this happen".
 
NysEms2117 said:
This will be one of those moments teachers/instructors show "Do not let this happen".
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Agreed. This happens all too often, not the hotheaded cop towards the paramedic part; the LEO's becoming involved in the "too many cooks in one kitchen" part. Instead of setting up a perimeter in the beginning, everyone---and I do mean everyone---huddled around this guy.

Looks like he was knocked unconscious for a reasonable amount of time coupled with most likely partaking in some late night alcoholic activities, then being woken up abruptly with a crowd full of people he does not know. Yeah, that never ends well.

Again, score one for the paramedic. He did great, really kept his cool throughout the entire call aside from his unfortunately unnecessary run in with the LEO; completely unwarranted by LE, BTW.

Ironically enough, and finally seeing a clearer account, it seems like a reasonably justifiable "wet dream" for any lawyer salivating in the shadows waiting for a make or break case. Would I slap a lawsuit on the cop personally? Probably not. Will the next guy? Sure, and they're not wrong with a situation like this; I stand corrected.

Also, completely different chain of events from a pissing match on a freeway.
 
While its easy to Monday night QB, the scene definitely could have been managed better. Couple issues with the video; 1) whose running the scene? 2) why is everyone huddled around the guy? 3) why is the crowd so close? 4) what the actual **** is going on here?

Aside from the firefighter being a lazy *** firefighter (I mean it takes all of two seconds to put on pants when you get a call at night) with his turnouts undone, this video is a perfect example of a fluster cuck. I get it, the dude is drunk and wakes up to a flashlight shining in the face with a bunch of unfamiliar people around him. Hell I would be combative too... for the first couple seconds till I came to. This dude was combative from the time he woke up to the time the video ended. He fought with first responders and quite frankly I don't blame the officer for tasering the guy. Did the officer and the medic escalate tensions? Yeah, for starters the medic didn't really need to yell I mean the officer was right there. Secondly, the officer didn't need to take it so personal. Speaking of the officer, did he go just a wee bit overboard? Yeah, I mean you can tell that he was a "hot head" from the way he interacted with the crowd. This should've been a "red flag" to the medic.

I've ran calls similar to this all the time. Drunk, belligerent, and wanting to fight is the typical weekend nights where I'm at. Plus I've had the joy and pleasure of working the biggest music festival in the world (Coachella fest). I've had my fair share of drunks with LEO's and FD. All of which haven't been as bad as this. Maybe this is just a local mindset or even a geographical mindset, but LEO's where I'm at in SO CAL tend to let us (EMS and FD) do our thing on scene. If we need the cops to get involved i.e. go hands on, taser, or whatever theres that look of "hey I need help" and we simply ask. I like to think theres that mutual respect between agencies/ services/ departments not just in CA but everywhere. Have I seen cops use excessive force? Nope, everyone deserved what they got coming to them (thats neither here nor there). Have I asked the cops to get involved? Yeah. They generally respect our scene interaction and in return I (can say the same who the whole) respect their request's. All in all a piss poor job on everyones part in my honest opinion.
 
Clear roles are needed, but we all know that is not always the case.

The officer went overboard, especially considering the entire ordeal going on at the time... how about some scene control, and let EMS deal with patient care? There is no need to grab the medic- who is by the looks of it comparatively younger than the officer. I think that comes into play here as well. Might the officer have taken a different approach with a more seasoned looking medic? Might the seasoned medic not react the same way? The medic did grab he cop on the shoulder; perhaps construed as a no go by the cop.

Who knows... all I know is if a cop grabs me by the throat for adhering to my duty to act I'll probably be going to jail that night. We'll let the court settle it.

The medic was doing his job according to medics, the officer was doing his according to the police.... where do those lines meet and where do they become blurry?
 
CALEMT said:
but LEO's where I'm at in SO CAL tend to let us (EMS and FD) do our thing on scene. If we need the cops to get involved i.e. go hands on, taser, or whatever theres that look of "hey I need help" and we simply ask.
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Being on both sides, in NYS(Albany) this is how its worked as well. Especially somebody thats on both sides, Just have to remember what hat im wearing. @DEmedic may be happy with me here, let FF fight fires, let LEOs secure the scene (perimeter included), let EMT/Medics/*heathcare provider here* care for the patient *No carpentry here folks*. As CAL said, if they need a taser, they'll ask for a leo, not all that complex..

And at sandpit's post, i think "ageism" is a thing. I have parolees that are old enough to be my grandfather... Listening to some 20 something year old child to them, isn't high on their list. And when age, egos, and red and blue lights mix, this scene occurs. IMO
 
NysEms2117 said:
Being on both sides, in NYS(Albany) this is how its worked as well. Especially somebody thats on both sides, Just have to remember what hat im wearing. @DEmedic may be happy with me here, let FF fight fires, let LEOs secure the scene (perimeter included), let EMT/Medics/*heathcare provider here* care for the patient *No carpentry here folks*. As CAL said, if they need a taser, they'll ask for a leo, not all that complex..

And at sandpit's post, i think "ageism" is a thing. I have parolees that are old enough to be my grandfather... Listening to some 20 something year old child to them, isn't high on their list. And when age, egos, and red and blue lights mix, this scene occurs. IMO
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Can you please explain to me how a weapon, albeit non lethal, but still a weapon, is warranted to use on a patient??
Soft restraints is the furthest I will go
 
B2chn said:
Can you please explain to me how a weapon, albeit non lethal, but still a weapon, is warranted to use on a patient??
Soft restraints is the furthest I will go
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When a violent person (patient or not) threatens my safety, and an LEO is on scene, use of appropriate force by the LEO is warranted. Once the patient is controlled, I'm able to use physical or chemical restraints to keep the patient and myself safe.

The only difference between the every day occurrence of this patient fighting with the cops and getting tased was that the medic was there first and was in the mix.
 
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B2chn said:
Can you please explain to me how a weapon, albeit non lethal, but still a weapon, is warranted to use on a patient??
Soft restraints is the furthest I will go
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DE said it in a nicer manner then i would've, but the same point remains..
 
DEmedic said:
When a violent person (patient or not) threatens my safety, and an LEO is on scene, use of appropriate force by the LEO is warranted. Once the patient is controlled, I'm able to use physical or chemical restraints to keep the patient and myself safe.

The only difference between the every day ocurrance of this patient fighting with the cops and getting tased was that the medic was there first and was in the mix.
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I wouldn't call a combative AMS patient a threat to my safety.
 
B2chn said:
I wouldn't call a combative AMS patient a threat to my safety.
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you must be a professional MMA fighter then! Just going to point this out here: Combative, and safety are antonyms. :oops:
 
B2chn said:
I wouldn't call a combative AMS patient a threat to my safety.
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You either:

A) haven't been doing this very long.

or

B) have an unhealthy lack of respect for the amount of damage a combative patient can do.

Either way, you need to quickly learn that combative patients can ruin your entire day with one well placed kick, punch or headbutt.
 
He'll learn the hard way...
 
DEmedic said:
Either way, you need to quickly learn that combative patients can ruin your entire day with one well placed kick, punch or headbutt.
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IMG_0180.GIF
 
NysEms2117 said:
you must be a professional MMA fighter then! Just going to point this out here: Combative, and safety are antonyms. :oops:
Click to expand...

We had a MMA fighter have excited delirium waking up from Anesthesia in the PACU. Punched a few people, destroyed everything, and ended getting locked in the room until police came and tazed him. Literally no other way to safely restrain him. He could have easily caused serious harm to staff or choked someone out and killed them.
 
Chase said:
We had a MMA fighter have excited delirium waking up from Anesthesia in the PACU. Punched a few people, destroyed everything, and ended getting locked in the room until police came and tazed him. Literally no other way to safely restrain him. He could have easily caused serious harm to staff or choked someone out and killed them.
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This is bad, this is all bad.
 
I carry a tranquilizer gun in my unit. Just roll down the window, get the crosshairs lined up and nighty night
 
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