Officer goes hands on on medic on scene.

[SandpitMedic]

So I saw his little gem today. I know a video doesn't always show the whole story, but this looks pretty bad on the officers part.

It appears the EMT/Medic (can't tell) was aiding a patient who had a +LOC and woke up uncooperative. Then the police tazed the patient, and when the EMS provider tried to explain this could be a medical emergency and intervened the officer appears to put him up against the police car and put his hand around his throat.

Kudos to the EMS dude for not losing his **** on scene. I'd be filing a lawsuit like yesteryear.

This is one I'm going to follow. Hopeful the officer is terminated. No way no how should a police officer put hands on a medic on scene unless he's saving their life. Period.

We often times are viewed as less than professionals... less than professional firemen, less than professional police officers. We're just EMTs or ambulance drivers...
Of the two men in the center of that video I only saw one professional.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time something like this has occurred between law enforcement and Fire/EMS...

http://www.jems.com/articles/news/2...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[NPO]

It's unacceptable.

I don't know what happened prior to the video, and witness testimony sheds a little light but it's not concrete.

But it's clear, that EMT/Medic was not hostile or threatening. The hand on the throat with his other hand at his side is not defensive, it's emotional. If this were a justified action, he would be using two hands to subdue or defend; this is clearly an emotional response.

I would have filed assault charges. Unacceptable.

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[VentMonkey]

It's unacceptable.

I don't know what happened prior to the video, and witness testimony sheds a little light but it's not concrete.

But it's clear, that EMT/Medic was not hostile or threatening. The hand on the throat with his other hand at his side is not defensive, it's emotional. If this were a justified action, he would be using two hands to subdue or defend; this is clearly an emotional response.

I would have filed assault charges. Unacceptable.

For his "hand around his neck"?! Honestly, the only ones who know what happened are the cop, the EMT/ medic, and possibly their partner.

I can't even clearly see if his hand is actually around the neck, or on his clavicle, nor does it look like the cop is enraged or lashing out at the EMT/ medic; emotional? Yes. Out of line in the short clip provided? Hardly.

Am I defending the cops alleged reaction to the entire situation? Nope, I wasn't there. Do I think cooler heads prevailed? Clearly, and the cops facial expression seems to indicate this as well. Did the EMT/ medic display a sense of professionalism throughout the ordeal? Yep, way to go.

Like the police chief said, it hardly shows anything in regards to the LEO's actions towards the EMT/ medic. We of all people know how "witness testimony" plays out from a public servants perspective.

What the video tells me is where we are in this day and age. This is hardly the kind of publicity any EMS journal should feed into, IMO (way to go JEMS). Even if we don't always see eye to eye with one another all the time, aside from the LEO blatantly inflicting brut force on the EMT/ medic unreasonably, what did he really do?

As messed up as things are, we hardly need to be screaming assault charges at one another at the drop of a dime. Are we often seen "less than" as public servants? Yep. But by overreacting in such a manner that we'd slap assault charges, or even suggest such to such a short clip being blown up by SM and all of its super reliable witnesses what does that say about us?

Perhaps there was more to this story than adds up, hence the EMT/ medics reaction. Maybe there's a reason he, and his agency haven't said much publicly, again, kudos to them. Maybe we ought to do what they seem to be doing, and move on.

 

[CALEMT]

Yeah, no bueno. 4 witnesses, partial video, the officer showing aggression towards the medic, and then the crowd. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fired. Kudos to the medic to keeping his cool.

I can't speak for tactics for all cops but where I'm at a C clamp (hand(s) on the throat) is a takedown method. I've never seen a cop holding a guy at the neck thats still standing like in the video. Typically they'll force you to the ground in a attempt to subdue you, this is all in my area and my experience with cops (dad is a LEO). This, like NPO stated seems emotionally driven.

 

[Rano Pano]

Amazed by the restraint on the EMT/Medics Part. The LEO putting his hand around the medics throat is unacceptable. I can't think of a reason where I'd justify that.

 

[NPO]

For his "hand around his neck"?! Honestly, the only ones who know what happened are the cop, the EMT/ medic, and possibly their partner.

Yes. Hands around the neck is battery. LEO or not. This is an emotional response by the LEO to something, what, idk. It speaks to unprofessionalism on the officers part.

If I pulled a cop off a suspect and put my hand on his neck, I'd be in jail. If I did the same to Joe schmoe I'd likely be charged if this same video existed. We can't hold law enforcement to a different standard.



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[VentMonkey]

Yes. Hands around the neck is battery. LEO or not. This is an emotional response by the LEO to something, what, idk. It speaks to unprofessionalism on the officers part.

If I pulled a cop off a suspect and put my hand on his neck, I'd be in jail. If I did the same to Joe schmoe I'd likely be charged if this same video existed. We can't hold law enforcement to a different standard.

No one is holding anyone to a different standard, never said that. Re read the post if you need to, everyone overreacts so quickly to a snippet seen on a video.

And I would hope there would never be a reason for you to put yourself between a cop and a "suspect" in the first place. If you did, you're doing something wrong.

 

[NPO]

Just a hypothetical to prove a point. Don't want to go to jail lol

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[VentMonkey]

I get it, I just don't like getting myself caught falling for public scandal without knowing the full scoop, which is hardly ever portrayed by the media.

Sensationalism doesn't mesh well with cold hard facts. I'm just more of a cold hard facts person myself; all of them, not just what I personally perceived from a small, grainy video clip. When we speculate in the same manner the average citizen does, which is technically all any of us are doing, we're no more the less than professional than we're often accustomed to being viewed as, particularly with things of this nature.

Like I said, I wasn't there, it didn't happen to me, the kid did a great job reactively. Perhaps the story should be spun (by the media) for his nobility, but you know...sensationalism.

 

[NysEms2117]

i tend to agree with vent. before i get reamed I AM NOT DEFENDING THE LEO. I think it is absurd that we(outsiders) would even begin to judge this. Does it look bad, yes. I dont see hands around throat, i see hand on shoulder/collarbone, however I am not the medic, nor the officer, nor the person videotaping so i cannot tell for sure. Good on the medic for not reacting, do i think there was another way to handle it, absolutely. But, as somebody who has had an "improper" videotape taken of myself (luckily body cam cleared up everything). Video is very often misleading, because it can start and stop when people want. However, cynical as it may be, i will not judge somebody from a video released on social media, or any media for that matter. Where was the video 5 minutes prior to that? bodycam footage?

Sensationalism doesn't mesh well with cold hard facts. I'm just more of a cold hard facts person myself;

Quoted for accuracy I agree with this 100000%, and i think most younger adults and teenagers should understand this is the way it should be.

 

[akflightmedic]

At what stage is it appropriate for an public servant to have another public servant intimidated with body language and touching backed against a vehicle on scene? And apparently the Medical person's offense must not have been that severe since he was released with no cuffs, no further detaining or assault.

I agree, more video is always welcome as is the full story. But that bullying/intimidating body posturing, inappropriate touching is indefensible between two public servant professionals on a scene call where there is already other presumed chaos ongoing.

Collar bone, neck, shoulder....none of it matters.

 

[cruiseforever]

Totally agree with akflightmedic. The officer knew he had screwed up when the first thing he does after letting the guy go, is to go after the guy holding the camera.

 

[NysEms2117]

Totally agree with akflightmedic. The officer knew he had screwed up when the first thing he does after letting the guy go, is to go after the guy holding the camera.

Or he can be like me and not like being video taped? Or know that he messes up 1 time in 25 years and somebody gets it on video and there goes his pension, salary, benefits and whatever else is included for municipal officers. I agree with akflight as well, however I just can't seem to think that civil service isn't the only place this goes on. Aren't we all civilians? Don't we all pay taxes?

 

[akflightmedic]

Whether or not you like being videotaped is not up to you when you are performing your official duties in a public space. You give up that right to expectation as we all do when in public. And justifying a screw up as the "one time in 25 years" excuses nothing...apply that logic to other areas and it goes no where so why do you accept it in this realm?

I did not kill anyone for 50 years, one time I slipped up (change kill with any other violent or criminal act).
Hey Babe, we been together 40 years but I banged that chick just one time.

That was extreme, take it to lower levels since you might argue that and at the end of the day, a screw up is still a screw up regardless of time in service. Life happens.

I am waiting for a reason to justify this aggressive posturing...it is definitely battery and I am sure an assault charge could be made.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I am waiting for a reason to justify this aggressive posturing...it is definitely battery and I am sure an assault charge could be made.

Man, you know as well as I do that cops get away with this stuff and worse all_the_time.

They always have an excuse, and much more importantly, the public is all to willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because law and order and keeping us safe and patriotism and stuff.

I didn't even watch this video. But the truth is, a lot of these guys are bullies and cowards and they have no qualms abusing their power, and until the advent of smart phones and social media, they always got away with it. They still almost always do. And that's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[akflightmedic]

I know and think as you do.

There was a discussion a few years back and I commented how early in my career, I used to stand by silently while cops who I knew and hung out with off the job would be total ****s and aggressive on the job. I was young, shocked and could not believe it was going on....and I did nothing. I lost a lot of friends after I started speaking up both on and off the job.

 

[NysEms2117]

I am waiting for a reason to justify this aggressive posturing...it is definitely battery and I am sure an assault charge could be made.

Won't get one from me. Charges should be filed. There's absolutely no shot of an accountant being fired for typing a 1 instead of a 0. Or a computer scientist being fired for updating software then somebody hacking said software. Do paramedics make mistakes? If a paramedic messed up 1 call in 20 years do they get fired? I'm not giving him a free pass by any means, but I'm also not saying put him on the cross... I also think all civil service jobs should have some leeway because your "on the spot" decision is what you can see, not what everybody knows. Again, not giving him an excuse, but you know as well as I do there were many times looking back on something that you could have done better had you known "xyz" at the time. Remi while that is true personally this may be my optimistic parole officer coming out, but back when community policing was thriving I don't think they had reason to "abuse power". However, I tend to agree with you with modern policing(which I hate) and I avoid "abusing power".

 

[akflightmedic]

Actually all of the things you mentioned have occurred...yes people get fired for those things and less.

If my CPA files my taxes and inserts a 0 instead of 1 or vice versa or any combination which is wrong, they are fired. Simple.

 

[NysEms2117]

Seems we will have to agree to disagree. Your point has merit,
I feel mine does too. I can't see how a stock accountant would get fired for that, aside from error checking and all that jazz. Again, don't want you, or others thinking I'm a "give people 30 chances guy", but i do have a we are humans mentality, and to expect perfection is rather absurd. We aren't robo-cops, or robo-accountants, or *insert job here*.

 

[akflightmedic]

Not perfection....respect for other humans and their space without over reaching into the bully or we are above law mentality because we are the law.