1. Tired of seeing ads? Click here to register today and the ads go away. It's completely FREE, too!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Our Store is open, now with t-shirts and keychains. Click on STORE in the top menu.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Can't find what you're looking for? Use the search bar in the upper right corner.
    Dismiss Notice

NREMT slashes required CE hours!

Discussion in 'NREMT' started by Summit, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Summit

    Summit Critical Crap

    1,783
    414
    83
    National Continued Competency Model replaces the current method in 2019
    https://www.nremt.org/rwd/public/document/nccp

    EMT: 45% decrease in CEs

    40 hours instead of 72 hours every two years...

    Instead of 24 hours of specified content by NREMT and 48 hours of elective, there will be 20 hours of super duper specific content by NREMT, 10 hours of state specified content, and 10 hours elective.

    PARAMEDIC: 17% decrease in CEs

    60 hours instead of 40 hours every two years...

    Instead of 48 hours of specified content by NREMT, and 24 hours of elective, there will be 30 hours of super duper specific content by NREMT, 15 hours of state specified content, and 15 hours elective.

    The content requirements are getting so specific that it will be very challenging for anyone to recert by CEs without taking a pricey and difficult to schedule formal refresher class. That may be NREMT's goal... because it will drive people to the recertify by exam option, a lucrative result for NREMT.

    Reducing CE requirements doesn't seem like a good idea for our already under-educated profession.
     
  2. Handsome Robb

    Handsome Robb Youngin' Premium Member

    9,553
    1,004
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    And yet another move in the wrong direction.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    FireWA1 likes this.
  3. VentMonkey

    VentMonkey Chief Schmief Premium Member

    2,494
    1,767
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    IMG_0064.JPG
     
    NysEms2117 and EpiEMS like this.
  4. VentMonkey

    VentMonkey Chief Schmief Premium Member

    2,494
    1,767
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    In all seriousness though, definitely sounds awful conspicuous. A shame, really.
     
  5. EpiEMS

    EpiEMS Forum Deputy Chief

    2,204
    451
    83
    Education:
    EMT
    On one hand, I like the idea - it means no repeating ad nauseam the same curriculum that I learned X years ago, and it's not so incredibly burdensome because it (partially) maps to many of the standardized merit badge courses offered in so many places. Plus, it is nice that they tried to align to the certification framework that physician boards (ABMS boards, I believe?) are using.

    On the other, it is not optimal to reduce the number of hours of CE required...especially considering the (1) relatively low barrier to entry in terms of time and (2) relative paucity of baseline knowledge imbued in initial EMS certification educational programs.

    I'll say this - they really did a nice thing by adding specific national content. But reducing hours overall is a big mistake.
     
  6. akflightmedic

    akflightmedic Forum Deputy Chief

    2,891
    1,222
    113
    I am almost of the mindset of simply requiring a board re certification like specialty docs and PAs go through...I mean if you cannot pass an entry level exam say every 5 years, well then it is time to go inactive. That would certainly thin the herd, weed out wannabes or incompetents and drive up our asking price eventually...
     
  7. Summit

    Summit Critical Crap

    1,783
    414
    83
    Most people leave the field before 5 years.
     
  8. EpiEMS

    EpiEMS Forum Deputy Chief

    2,204
    451
    83
    Education:
    EMT
    I like this argument for sure - but it could also lead to practitioners who are abandoning national registry in favor of just maintaining a state license, thus undermining the idea of a national standard for practitioners, no?

    I haven't been able to find any data on this - but I'd believe it. Are you aware of any substantiation for this stat?
     
  9. Grimes

    Grimes Forum Asst. Chief

    724
    167
    43
    Education:
    EMT
    At least for EMT, I see this as an overall decrease in hour requirement but an increase in true CE value. As a college student all I have to do is state 1 or 2 courses that I took and it knocked out my 48 elective hours. I don't remember the exact requirements, but it really didn't take much of anything to do these hours, and the spectrum was broad. I did the 24 via a refresher course. With the new system, I'll probably do the 20 national hours via a refresher course again, the 10 electives through college credit again, but will (hopefully) have to do something EMS-specific that Texas DSHS deems appropriate. So there is potential for 30 hours of truly EMS-specific material, as opposed to the old 24. But we'll see what the states do.

    Side note - I've never seen those Training Officer resources before, very interesting. Does anyone know if changelogs for these documents exist?
     
  10. Remi

    Remi Forum Deputy Chief Premium Member

    2,991
    1,615
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    I don't see it as a bad thing. There needs to be a CE requirement, but refreshing your entire initial education every two years was always a dumb idea.

    The focus should be on continuing education, rather than constantly repeating education. Quality not quantity.
     
    gotbeerz001 and EpiEMS like this.
  11. VentMonkey

    VentMonkey Chief Schmief Premium Member

    2,494
    1,767
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    Honestly, I don't think this field will ever evolve into a profession. Just take a look at some of the recent threads, and posters.

    The true epitome of what it means to try and take two steps forward, only so others can set you 15 steps back. It doesn't much matter to me how many hours I do, or don't need to keep my NRP, or what content is or isn't required; clearly it matters not.

    Can you be a professional in the field? Yes. Can this field turn into a profession? Welp, clearly the obvious has been stated even without this opinionated rant.
     
    EpiEMS likes this.
  12. Summit

    Summit Critical Crap

    1,783
    414
    83
    The high ce hour requirements was the only justification for the low initial hours. I don't see them bumping up initial certification.
     
  13. VentMonkey

    VentMonkey Chief Schmief Premium Member

    2,494
    1,767
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    Ironically, I was just talking with one of our local EMT course instructor about how they're upping the course requirement to 200 hours, further expanded the A&P portion of the course itself. Could this have some relevance?
     
  14. EpiEMS

    EpiEMS Forum Deputy Chief

    2,204
    451
    83
    Education:
    EMT
    I haven't seen any info on upping the requirements or expanding A&P - I love the idea. Any sources you could provide?
     
  15. VentMonkey

    VentMonkey Chief Schmief Premium Member

    2,494
    1,767
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    Sorry Ep, I don't have any cold hard facts. I wouldn't quote me on it, I'm not an instructor, but the instructor who gave me this info is one of the local JC EMT instructors and our former training coordinator, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

    If anyone can substantiate this, by all means feel free. I do believe @STXmedic is an EMS instructor, perhaps he can enlighten us?
     
  16. Alan L Serve

    Alan L Serve Forum Lieutenant

    125
    26
    28
    Education:
    Critical Care EMT-P
    I've just read that the AAPA has taken the formal position that the recertification exam is unnecessary and there exists no studies to support any benefit in retesting after initial certification.

     
  17. Summit

    Summit Critical Crap

    1,783
    414
    83
    That would be a decision by the JC. There is no new hours requirement from NREMT much less DOT.
     
  18. Remi

    Remi Forum Deputy Chief Premium Member

    2,991
    1,615
    113
    Education:
    Paramedic
    Increasing and academic-izing the basic science (A&P, pharm, research) portion of initial EMS training is probably the best thing that could happen to EMS education.

    As for CE, it should involve reviewing important basic foundational knowledge, but mostly in the context of updating knowledge to cover new developments in the field.

    The NREMT template of basically repeating an abbreviated version of your initial education (often without covering anything new) every two years has always irked me.
     
    EpiEMS and Ensihoitaja like this.
  19. DrParasite

    DrParasite The fire extinguisher is not just for show

    2,949
    268
    83
    that is how NYS used to be back in 2000s.... not sure if they have changed it since I was up there....

    As for the original topic, I'm all for it. I know many people who get their original certification through NREMT, but let it lapse because the continuing education requirements were so high, and they had to be done every 2 years. Since most employers don't care about NREMT, and only wanted employees to maintain their state certifications, it wasn't a big deal. I am in favor of increasing the initial hours, because my college is routinely maxed out on the number of hours we can teach in our basic EMT class.

    I am all for reducing the hours, especially for those people who are active providers. Having to rehash your entire initial education every two years always seemed like a waste of time for me. Now if you were covering new material, or new topics, that's a different story.
     
  20. EpiEMS

    EpiEMS Forum Deputy Chief

    2,204
    451
    83
    Education:
    EMT
    I totally agree, but I'm not sure how willing people are to change from EMT (~200 hours) as the entry-to-practice level...

    NYS lets you do a 36 hour refresher every three years to recert, if you want to,. It's not a terrible option - take a pre-test and a skills test, then skip the classes you don't "need" to retake based on knowledge/ability, then take the state cognitive exam. Pretty easy.
     

Share This Page