Medic Cert to Medic Degree

[46Young]

Where's the tech program for the recently unemployed or people with families so that they can obtain unrestricted licenses to practice medicine? Heck, one major difference between prehospital care and medicine is that there really is a lack of physicians (especially primary care physicians) unlike paramedics. A lot of my classmates are married with children, yet are still putting in an insane amount of time to get their education instead of looking for an easy way to obtain said license. Why doesn't the school offer them flexible hours different from everyone else?

Those Carribean schools aren't tech schools, but they do shave off the time required for a degree. It'll work if you can find a place that will allow you to do your residency. If you can do that, then complete your residency, then won't the place that you did your residency be of much more importance than your alma mater? Smae thing in EMS. Many places require (or state desire) for prior experience when applying. It would appear, then, that many employers value relevant work history over your place of education. Experience trumps your alma mater.

So many of your classmates are married with children and are going through med school. I have to wonder if the marriage will be strained to the breaking point (divorce) due to the physical and emotional unavailability to their families (they're home, but they're unavailable due to hours of studying). I, for one, place family time at a premium. I don't want to be a stranger to my children, or a stranger in my own home. If med school is extremely time intensive as it is, how can one ever hope to devote the proper amount of attention to their family. A family may be able to endure 2-3 years of FT school, but a decade of unavailability? One would risk a high level of resentment and feelings of abandonment from their spouse and leaving their children with self esteem and insecurity issues. I wonder where and what they'll turn as a substitute for fatherly attention (assuming it's the husband going to school of course)? This all sounds like grand assumptions, sure, but these scenarios are possible and do happen to the best of families. I'm a realist. I look at the big picture.

My wife almost left me when I disappeared to medic school shortly after giving birth to our daughter. It took her years to get over that, basically up until I was hired by the FD, when we were finally secure and comfortable, thereby validating the year's misery where I largely abandoned her and left her to provide most of the care for out infant daughter.

 

[46Young]

www.fafsa.gov I heard that if you fill that out while attending a legitimate institution of higher learning that you qualify for federal student loans. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and invest in your future. Heck, I know at least one single parent in my class. She ain't workin' full time to the best of my knowledge.

Just read your post. Some are more financially secure than others. If that single parent isn't working FT she either lives with family, has significant pre-existing savings/investments, receives alimony/child support, receives Section 8 housing and possibly food stamps, medicaid and such (nothing wrong with that, this would actually be an example of someone who actually uses the program for what it was intended for) or some combination of the above.

Those loans do need to be repaid at some point. Do I want to go to a tech school for a year and use the next two years' salary increase to pay off the loans, or do I want to go for 3 years and be in that much more debt? We're talking about a medic gig post grad, not exactly the highest paying profession, as you know. Now, if you're talking about grants, that's a different scenario entirely.

 

[VentMedic]

So many of your classmates are married with children and are going through med school. I have to wonder if the marriage will be strained to the breaking point (divorce) due to the physical and emotional unavailability to their families (they're home, but they're unavailable due to hours of studying). I, for one, place family time at a premium. I don't want to be a stranger to my children, or a stranger in my own home. If med school is extremely time intensive as it is, how can one ever hope to devote the proper amount of attention to their family. A family may be able to endure 2-3 years of FT school, but a decade of unavailability? One would risk a high level of resentment and feelings of abandonment from their spouse and leaving their children with self esteem and insecurity issues. I wonder where and what they'll turn as a substitute for fatherly attention (assuming it's the husband going to school of course)? This all sounds like grand assumptions, sure, but these scenarios are possible and do happen to the best of families. I'm a realist. I look at the big picture.

I've known med students, interns, residents and now attendings who have been happily married throughout their education. We just has the Critical Care Christmas party and just about everyone had their spouses with them. In fact, many do better knowing they do have a supportive family. They also know how fulfilling it is to have a rewarding career and a loving family. While the loans might add up, there are still some things money can not by. If you have purpose and meaning to your life, the rest will fall into place.

My wife almost left me when I disappeared to medic school shortly after giving birth to our daughter. It took her years to get over that, basically up until I was hired by the FD, when we were finally secure and comfortable, thereby validating the year's misery where I largely abandoned her and left her to provide most of the care for out infant daughter.

Now that is sad since that is only a few months. I do hope you have your finances in order so the divorce won't wipe you out too bad.

And yes, my family are supportive of me as I am of them. Education has always been emphasized even with the FD. Your education is an investment and something no one can take away from you.

 

[JPINFV]

Those Carribean schools aren't tech schools, but they do shave off the time required for a degree. It'll work if you can find a place that will allow you to do your residency. If you can do that, then complete your residency, then won't the place that you did your residency be of much more importance than your alma mater? Smae thing in EMS. Many places require (or state desire) for prior experience when applying. It would appear, then, that many employers value relevant work history over your place of education. Experience trumps your alma mater.

Err. The ones that will get you a license in all 50 states are still 4 years, and that's assuming that you actually pass all of the courses. Those schools are notorious for their attrition rate and for holding people back as long as possible. Going to most Caribbean medical schools is like going to Excelsior College for an RN degree. Sure, if (and that's a big if) you graduate, there's a pretty big chance that the degree isn't worth the money it's printed on. Additionally, if you fail out, you still have to repay your loans.

edit: Heck, if you think that the Caribbean is all that and a bag of potato chips, I suggest that you go read over the www.valuemd.com Caribbean forum. The only thing that's important at most Caribbean schools is that your student loans get approved. /edit

So many of your classmates are married with children and are going through med school. I have to wonder if the marriage will be strained to the breaking point (divorce) due to the physical and emotional unavailability to their families (they're home, but they're unavailable due to hours of studying). I, for one, place family time at a premium. I don't want to be a stranger to my children, or a stranger in my own home. If med school is extremely time intensive as it is, how can one ever hope to devote the proper amount of attention to their family. A family may be able to endure 2-3 years of FT school, but a decade of unavailability? One would risk a high level of resentment and feelings of abandonment from their spouse and leaving their children with self esteem and insecurity issues. I wonder where and what they'll turn as a substitute for fatherly attention (assuming it's the husband going to school of course)? This all sounds like grand assumptions, sure, but these scenarios are possible and do happen to the best of families. I'm a realist. I look at the big picture.

Different people have different family schedules. I know a handful of classmates that set aside time (say, Friday nights) that are family time, no 'ifs, ands, or buts.' However, I am not those people. I have no clue about the strength of their relationship or the plans that they set forth. I am not making their decisions for them.

My wife almost left me when I disappeared to medic school shortly after giving birth to our daughter. It took her years to get over that, basically up until I was hired by the FD, when we were finally secure and comfortable, thereby validating the year's misery where I largely abandoned her and left her to provide most of the care for out infant daughter.

So because you had relationship problems during school, medic education should be simplified to make it easier for married couples?

 

[46Young]

I've known med students, interns, residents and now attendings who have been happily married throughout their education. We just has the Critical Care Christmas party and just about everyone had their spouses with them. In fact, many do better knowing they do have a supportive family. They also know how fulfilling it is to have a rewarding career and a loving family. While the loans might add up, there are still some things money can not by. If you have purpose and meaning to your life, the rest will fall into place.



Now that is sad since that is only a few months. I do hope you have your finances in order so the divorce won't wipe you out too bad.

And yes, my family are supportive of me as I am of them. Education has always been emphasized even with the FD. Your education is an investment and something no one can take away from you.

It wasn't only a few months, it was 15 months in total, 13 of which averaged 32-40 hours/wk in addition to school. Not all tech schools aer three month wonders. Firemedics don't exist in the Greater NY area, so it's not like the FD was retarding the advance of EMS in that region anyway. I didn't even know fire and EMS was combined in many places for my first 4 years in EMS.

My wife and I are quite happy now that it's paying off. We're expecting our second, something we both decided on. We're buying a house soon. Her parents also intend to move down here, now that they're newly retired. I'd say we're stable. Consider that in my case the timing couldn't have been worse. My girl was born in August, and I started school in October. It wasn't like she was in grade school or something, where she would have been more manageable for my wife in my absensce.

 

[46Young]

Err. The ones that will get you a license in all 50 states are still 4 years, and that's assuming that you actually pass all of the courses. Those schools are notorious for their attrition rate and for holding people back as long as possible. Going to most Caribbean medical schools is like going to Excelsior College for an RN degree. Sure, if (and that's a big if) you graduate, there's a pretty big chance that the degree isn't worth the money it's printed on. Additionally, if you fail out, you still have to repay your loans.

edit: Heck, if you think that the Caribbean is all that and a bag of potato chips, I suggest that you go read over the www.valuemd.com Caribbean forum. The only thing that's important at most Caribbean schools is that your student loans get approved. /edit


Different people have different family schedules. I know a handful of classmates that set aside time (say, Friday nights) that are family time, no 'ifs, ands, or buts.' However, I am not those people. I have no clue about the strength of their relationship or the plans that they set forth. I am not making their decisions for them.



So because you had relationship problems during school, medic education should be simplified to make it easier for married couples?

I know that I'm ignorant as to how the Carribean schools work, that's why I phrased mty comment in question form.

Medic education dosen't need to be simplified, it already is (depending on the school, of course, some do better than others in preparing one for the field). My posts discuss current options available. I've said before that if these options weren't available, namely medic tech schools and also lucrative firemedic positions, I would have knocked out an ASN to start, as that would have been the best available option at the time.

 

[rhan101277]

EMS missed the opportunity to advance like other healthcare professions. It's likely that those analyzing EMS as a career path won't be willing to risk investing in a 2-4 year degree for a small chance, only a small chance of things improving in the future. As it is now, the pay, benefits, conditions and retirement aren't worthy of someone with a 2-4 year degree save for a handful of places.

I wish I had an answer as to how those working in EMS could be effectively organized to push for a better deal. The profession is greatly transient and fragmented as it is. It's difficult to talk someone into getting a degree just to enter a profession where it's the norm to be paid little, and work under poor conditions. I know that other professions became educated and then lobbied for a better deal. I don't see EMS organizing to any great degree given the current conditions, not without prior organization (union, perhaps) that will raise pay/benefits to a minimum standard that would attract more to stay in it for a career, rather than just a stepping stone. Anyone with any sense will balk at what's available in EMS as a career and direct their energy towards a degree in other healthcare fields, which are more financially rewarding.

You can't bank on "faith". It's too risky.

So you say that there are single parents going to school FT while working FT? That may work if they're already paid well in their current job, and also have family willing to care for their children in their absence. I'm referring to school age children or younger, not teenagers who don't require child care and txp to/from school. If a single parent is working FT and going to school FT for several years, they'll spend a small fortune in child care expenses as well as tuition. So now they deferred maybe two years of earning while paying out a fortune in child care and are under a mountain of debt. For the single parent I don't see how that works without significant help from family. Many don't have that good of a support system. For those in similar positions, and also those newly unemployed with a mortgage to pay, doing a year or so vs three there's no question.

It's not crap, it's called real life. Thank the unwillingness for healthcare degree programs to allow PT participation, the tech school industry for providing a quicker, more fiscally friendly option, and lack of organization for the current state of things.

Do you know where the "handful of places" are that really have a decent pay difference for the 2 or 4 year degrees.

 

[46Young]

Look, I'm not against education. I'm posting about all options, and all considerations given each individual's unique situation. Again, if the medical arts would allow less than FT participation, that degree and career path would be all the more attractive, and possible for some that wouldn't be able to so it otherwise. Back in the day, when my daughter was born, I could've possibly maintained the household with my EMT salary, albeit barely. A PT option for RN school would possibly been attractive at the time. It didn't exist. Enter the medic tech school. When your back's against the wall, you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

Person A gets their MBA, gets married w/children, later becomes employed, buys a house, gets laid off 5 years later, runs out of money, and short sells their house, and is finally hired a week afterward.

Person B spends 4 years in school for an EMS BA while helping support a family on an EMT salary. They incur sizeable debt, which is finally paid off at exactly the same time person A did the short sale. Both are 33 y/o and in exactly the same financial situation, namely debt free but with nearly zero equity, albeit through different paths.

Person C goes to a tech school for a little over a year (me), pays off the 6 grand in tuition in several months due to OT and the sizeable salary increase. Person C realizes that the housing market is greatly inflated, and will face a correction at some point. So, being debt free, person C can then invest in their retirement, a 529, 6 months worth of living expenses, and a portfolio earmarked for a future home purchase. Person C now has a sizeable portfolio, can afford to buy a lot of house in a desireable area, and can still invest in a degree (or several) without any financial worry.

"Biting the bullet" when you have a family to support, having to pay of sizeable debt, will get you to the same financial situation as the person B - starting from scratch at 33.

More efficient routes to employment are appropriate for those in certain financial situations. Anything but a traditional college education for a young single person, particularly one living w/parents, is ill advised.

 

[46Young]

Do you know where the "handful of places" are that really have a decent pay difference for the 2 or 4 year degrees.

I only said that for sake of argument, because otherwise someone will produce a single place or region as an example of compensation in line with education, and then imply it's the same in many other areas.

Vent has mentioned Wake Co. NC, Seattle, and a couple of other places as being known for their EMS. Whether "being known" equates to better compensation and working conditions, who knows?

Experience is the most potent negotiating tool for salary. The two year degree won't help much, maybe as a tie breaker with another applicant. The true benefit regarding employment (not pt care) is with the EMS BA, since that qualifies one for a future admin position. Some places require require a degree as a condition of employment, but they are either centered around a particular region (Oregon) or are few and far between.

When considering salary and cost of living, remember that although the cost of living may be low, with a proportionally lower salary, your amount of disposeable income will also be proportionally lower (less deferred comp contributions) as will your final pension benefit, when compared with an area with a higher cost of living. Someone who says "My salary is 50k top out but the cost of living is cheap" will receive only a 25k benefit at retirement, with an anemic deferred comp portfolio. Now, if you're living somewhere expensive, with a salary in line, your 100k salary will net a 50k/yr pension, wih presumably double the deferred comp portfolio...... well, actually 3-4 times if not more, due to compound interest. Just food for thought.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

My divorce was about 11 months into medic school, medic school being one of the main reasons given to me by her.

 

[46Young]

My divorce was about 11 months into medic school, medic school being one of the main reasons given to me by her.

That blows. You try to better yourself and your family and it bites you in the a$$.

 

[Alimae03]

Well just to let you know that I am getting my associates degree in health and science. I have alway's wanted to be a flight paramedic. I know that its hard as a single parent and with all the bills. I am not saying that you can do it without an education. I believe that it is every important to have an education and to be on top of the relationship between you and pt's. So if you want to sit there an dis on anyone you should take a look at yourself cuz dissing on someone is not helping the pt's.

 

[reaper]

My divorce was about 11 months into medic school, medic school being one of the main reasons given to me by her.

I can tell you that it was on her mind, long before medic school. That was just a good excuse.

 

[VentMedic]

It wasn't only a few months, it was 15 months in total, 13 of which averaged 32-40 hours/wk in addition to school. Not all tech schools aer three month wonders.

15 months tells us nothing. That is the problem with tech school training. You might have gone 1 night per week for 15 months. Even a 110 hour EMT course can be stretched out to a year by going just two hours a week which some do to accomondate some places that use volunteer.

Do you think a handful of health care professions are the only ones that go to college? You also have used the ones who require the least amount of education for entry level which is the RN and RRT. Of course both of those are still well over 2x the amount of training and education than the Paramedic. Even the LVN program is longer.

Did you happen to think that people of all ages have been going to colleges to get degrees for many, many decades or a couple of centuries? College is nothing new. It is not just a FF that can buy a house. Not everyone with a college education is stupid about finances or too poor to buy a house.

Person A gets their MBA, gets married w/children, later becomes employed, buys a house, gets laid off 5 years later, runs out of money, and short sells their house, and is finally hired a week afterward.

Person B spends 4 years in school for an EMS BA while helping support a family on an EMT salary. They incur sizeable debt, which is finally paid off at exactly the same time person A did the short sale. Both are 33 y/o and in exactly the same financial situation, namely debt free but with nearly zero equity, albeit through different paths.

Person C goes to a tech school for a little over a year (me), pays off the 6 grand in tuition in several months due to OT and the sizeable salary increase. Person C realizes that the housing market is greatly inflated, and will face a correction at some point. So, being debt free, person C can then invest in their retirement, a 529, 6 months worth of living expenses, and a portfolio earmarked for a future home purchase. Person C now has a sizeable portfolio, can afford to buy a lot of house in a desireable area, and can still invest in a degree (or several) without any financial worry.

You really keep harping on the fact that you believe education = people who are stupid about finances and a tech school cert is the only way to go. Are you not even going to encourage you own children to go to college? I expect you think saving for your kids college education just takes money away from your own needs. A couple months of tech school should find them a decent union laborer job. They don't need none of that education to get JOB and who cares they have a career with opportunities or even a JOB they like.

Take a good look around you at others such as those who do work in health care that require no less than a 4 year degree which is now many RNs and RRTs. SLPs and OTs now need Masters. PTs need a doctorate. They made the sacrifices to get their cert and state licenses. Those that were serious about their profession did not just whine and whine. They wanted a career in something they know could help patients and give them some satifaction in knowing that. It is not just a JOB to them.

How about the accountants that help you balance your checkbook? Do you think they whined like you have about education when a 4 year degree is entry with a Masters preferred for their profession? What about the person who runs the art gallery in your area? Did they think 4 or 6 years of college was too much to get the job they desired? What about the teachers at your kids' schools? They needed at least a Bachelors with a Masters or even doctorate. Would you send you kid to a school where all the teachers needed just a 1 year cert? Well, maybe YOU would. But do you think all of these teachers are living in the projects or skid row?

Coming out with all the pitiful broke and divorce crap is just something to justify why YOU don't want to go to school. Not everyone who gets an education past high school is ignorant about finances and has an unstable marriage.

Experience is the most potent negotiating tool for salary. The two year degree won't help much, maybe as a tie breaker with another applicant. The true benefit regarding employment (not pt care) is with the EMS BA, since that qualifies one for a future admin position. Some places require require a degree as a condition of employment, but they are either centered around a particular region (Oregon) or are few and far between.

The experience thing is not always true in the professional world of medicine or in anything. You won't even be considered for the job if you don't have the education. As I have stated many, many times, the Paramedic is one of the older allied health occupations and the only one besides MA, Phlebotomist and OR tech that does not require any degree.

You could come to us seeking a job as a flight medic with all your years of experience but I can guarantee you will not get hired since you barely have the minimal requirements to be a Paramedic. You have no desire to advance your eduation except for maybe a weekend cert at a tech school and believe those with education are poor and financially ignorant. You have not mentioned anything about patient care or what the taxpayers deserve with all your rambling against education. That is not the professional we want doing patient care or representing our company.

How can you even speak about what a degree in EMS can do when you didn't even know firemedics existed until a couple years ago? You really don't know very much about EMS at all yet you are coming across as THE WORD.

Did you read Melclin's post?

The U.S. education for Paramedic is an embarrassment when compared to many other countries. For it to continue to attract those who make excuses about not getting an education is even more of an embarrassment. It also makes one wonder that if you have so many excuses about not getting an education, what excuses do you come up with when doing patient care if the protocol is a little too long for your liking. Do you take shortcuts there also? It sounds like some are looking for the easy way out of things be it education or their marriage.

You are only looking for a job while others who get their education are looking for a career which might also give them more opportunities. I would rather be someone living within my means in a modest home with a career I enjoyed than a JOB just to pay the bills or one that gives bragging rights about what a great bank account they have. Those are usually the ones who do have marital problems because there is no room for the spouse when your only focus is your checkbook.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

15 months tells us nothing. That is the problem with tech school training. You might have gone 1 night per week for 15 months. Even a 110 hour EMT course can be stretched out to a year by going just two hours a week which some do to accomondate some places that use volunteer.

He said quite clearly "it was 15 months in total, 13 of which averaged 32-40 hours/wk in addition to school."

Now I know I am not the best at math(since you imply medics with out degrees cant accomplish the simple math needed to be a paramedic), but it seems to me that comes out to over 2000 hours. If he did go 40 hours per week. My program was well over 1300 hours not including A&P courses, biology, EMT-B, or EMT-I ect...

Do you think a handful of health care professions are the only ones that go to college? You also have used the ones who require the least amount of education for entry level which is the RN and RRT. Of course both of those are still well over 2x the amount of training and education than the Paramedic. Even the LVN program is longer.

once again your just plain wrong and your information is not accurate in the state of Oregon. In Oregon the Paramedic degree exceeds the RN degree at the community college level in hours at many colleges.

Coming out with all the pitiful broke and divorce crap is just something to justify why YOU don't want to go to school. Not everyone who gets an education past high school is ignorant about finances and has an unstable marriage.

Myself and a lot of the other people you are arguing with plan on completing degree's or are currently completing them as paramedics.....

not only that you keep ranting abut marriages, last time I checked your education is in healthcare and not marriage counseling. Your not really qualified nor do you have any idea about the circumstances surrounding those of us who have sacrificed these things. You do not know me or anyone else who mentioned anything related to that.

Also quit talking about Oregon EMS, you once again are not qualified to speak on this subject. You do not live in Oregon, your not an Oregon Paramedic, nor do you have any clue of the pro's or cons of our states degree requirement.

I was oversea's in the middle of a war zone earning my financial education rights at 18, I am doing the best I can to utilize them while still supporting myself. I am finishing a degree, I am a paramedic... and I am proud of that and what I have accomplished.

The one thing I can agree with you on, is our EMS education is not up to par with the likes of those in the UK, and many other modern country's.

 

[Scott33]

He said quite clearly "it was 15 months in total, 13 of which averaged 32-40 hours/wk in addition to school."

Now I know I am not the best at math(since you imply medics with out degrees cant accomplish the simple math needed to be a paramedic), but it seems to me that comes out to over 2000 hours. If he did go 40 hours per week. My program was well over 1300 hours not including A&P courses, biology, EMT-B, or EMT-I ect...

1,300 hours is about the norm for a medic class in the NY metropolitan area (though some are more) and I have yet to read about one less than 1,200 hours in total. Advanced Standing can allow some RNs and EMT-I's / CC's to sit out on certain didactic components, providing they pass the challenge exam at the beginning of each relevant unit. However, this does not shorten the actual calendar time of the course.

I am curious as to the amount of shortcuts that would need to be taken, to bang out a medic class in as little as 600 hours for an EMT-B. Probably all that boring stuff like pharm and drug math <_<

 

[VentMedic]

He said quite clearly "it was 15 months in total, 13 of which averaged 32-40 hours/wk in addition to school."

And you clearly don't get it. 15 months does not tell the "hours of training" or the number of semester credits like a college. There is NO way to compare if it was a 1 day/week class and who know who he did for 32 -40 hours per week outside of class. The is not a measurable comparison as there is in a college system.

once again your just plain wrong and your information is not accurate in the state of Oregon. In Oregon the Paramedic degree exceeds the RN degree at the community college level in hours at many colleges.

They are both 2 year degrees. But once again YOU don't get it. The average Paramedic program in the U.S. is between 700 and 1200 "hours of training". That is less than the clinical hours of RN school. A Paramedic program can easily be completed in 6 months in some states without much effort.

Myself and a lot of the other people you are arguing with plan on completing degree's or are currently completing them as paramedics.....

Again YOU don't get it. Do you think any other health care profession would allow someone to work with a "promise" to complete the degree when they are ready? Absolutely not! You said your were a provisional Paramedic who has yet to finish the degree. In other health care professions you either finish the degree or you don't get your cert. Plain and simple. Those such as 46Young just talk about getting a degree. If he actually had to get the degree before starting as Paramedic, there is a good chance he would never have gotten the patch but would have found a FD or some tech job that did not require much time spent in school. Even if his 14 or 15 months were the equivalent of a fulltime college load, which it is doubtful if was, do you really think that is a lot of time to spend on education? Most health care professions are entry level at a 4 or 6 year degree. Do you think you could get a license as a Physical Therapist now with anything less than a Masters which on average is 6 years of college? Look at the requirements for education to be a Paramedic in other countries. A two year degreed Paramedic from this country would still only be "BLS" and little else.

 

[VentMedic]

,
300 hours is about the norm for a medic class in the NY metropolitan area (though some are more) and I have yet to read about one less than 1,200 hours in total. Advanced Standing can allow some RNs and EMT-I's / CC's to sit out on certain didactic components, providing they pass the challenge exam at the beginning of each relevant unit. However, this does not shorten the actual calendar time of the course.

In some states the RN can challenge the Paramedic exam if they get the EMT-B cert which can be done in at little as two weeks in some places. Others have may do a transition program in about 150 hours. Some colleges may allow RNs and RRTs to take one or two core courses to get their Paramedic patch. However, their RN and RRT license is still what they will be working under. Getting a Paramedic patch may just be a formality for some who need it for a HEMS program. To most it is just another, "cert" like HBO or ECMO" to perform a specialty. Other states have their own prehospital specialty certifications for RNs which builds on what they already know as an RN. RNs can generally have no problem getting at least 20 intubations on live patients in a short time while some Paramedic programs only have 5 tubes on a manikin. Thus there is an advantage for an RN to go through a bridge or a prehospital RN cert program rather than wasting much time with a traditional Paramedic program that assumes you have only a high school education and a 10th grade reading/comprehension level.

When they have had college level A&P and Pathophysiology as well as being a CCRN and/or CEN, it is senseless to insult them with the adventures of Sidney Sinus Node.

I am curious as to the amount of shortcuts that would need to be taken, to bang out a medic class in as little as 600 hours for an EMT-B. Probably all that boring stuff like pharm and drug math <_<

You might ask those from TX about this since their Paramedic program was raised from 500 to 624 hours not that long ago. However, if they have not attended a longer program, they may not know what they are missing.

For some states, even if you add in the EMT-B and the EMT-I to the "hours of training" you don't get 1000.


I will again post this article which is still used as an argument today and as I have seen in 46Young's posts in his stance on "tech" schools.


2000 Hours to Train a Paramedic?
http://www.fd-doc.com/2000Hours.htm

 

[EMSLaw]

Haven't we had this conversation a million times before? Yes, the current amount of hours is probably sufficient to train a paramedic technician, who responds to certain symptoms with certain treatments by rote. An EMT-B class writ large. "Hrm, patient presents with A, B, C. I administer a bolus of X." Admit it, that's how we all learned medical skills in the basic class - except the intervention was usually, "high-flow O2 and rapid transport."

If Paramedics want respect as medical technologists, with greater autonomy, independent decision making, better billing reimbursement, and, yes, more "cool skills", then they need to accept that a higher level of education is a prerequisite for that.

Education has always been something of an arms race. Prior to the 1960s, the degree I hold was known as an LL.B., or Bachelor of Law. But other fields, with similar levels of postgraduate education (Medicine, for example), called their professional degree a doctorate. Thus was born the Juris Doctor. Incidentally, fifty years before that, you could learn law like our forefathers did - by clerking with an attorney. In Lincoln's time, you didn't need any formal education to be admitted to the bar. Now, you need a Bachelor's Degree and a J.D.. People in highly specialized fields go on to get an LL.M., a Masters of Law (which is higher than the first doctorate, incidentally).

Maybe law's a bad example, but how about this - most police departments now require a 2-year degree, at least. In addition to the police academy, which is probably of similar hours to a paramedic program.

So, if you're happy with cookie cutter medicine, then by all means, continue the status quo. If you want to be more independent, better paid, and more respected, then plan to work for it.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

here is just one example

Portland Community College Paramedic Program http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/emt.pdf

Portland Community College RN Program
http://www.pcc.edu/about/catalog/nur.pdf

You will see right now they are the same amount of college credits. When I was going to PCC, the Paramedic program had more clinical/field hours(documented hours not college credit hours) than the nursing program and I am sure it still does. Plus alot of Paramedic students are also EMT-Intermediates in school and those hours along with basic hours is more training in the end.

But here is the real kicker.... both those degrees are required in Oregon both those degrees have 107 credits and are both AAS.... but when the Paramedic graduates he/she will make significantly less than the nurse. We have had a degree for 10 years in Oregon for Paramedics, yet I dont think its done anything for us pay wise. We get screwed in Oregon IMO