Local FF's shopping while on duty

MS Medic said:
That is irrelevent to the issue of trolling. Once again, would it be appropriate for us to go to a fire service based forum and bash fire based EMS and hihjack their threads?
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If they are discussing an EMS subject we should have the right to go and discuss our view on the subject.

If we ban people from sharing their views where do we draw the line? I guess as a Paramedic I would be banned as this is EMTlife not Paramediclife.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Medic
The problem is not my disagreement with him. The problem is that I see him on both of the ems forums I am currently on and he constantly hijacks threads and tries to turn them into discussions about why we should all work for fire based EMS. Yet, I have never found a ligetimate response when the logistal problems of fire based EMS are discussed. It constantly turns into spewing retoric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medic417
And while I agree he does always post IAFF propaganda, he is right that those of us that know for a fact that fire based is not the best way always spout our anti fire propaganda, so where is the difference?


Once again this is a issue of trolling with IAFF "propaganda" as you put it, not an honest and genuine discussion of issues.
 
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MS Medic said:
Once again this is a issue of trolling with IAFF "propaganda" as you put it, not an honest and genuine discussion of issues.
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So because we feel a certain way and state our opinions its not propaganda?
 
Congrats, you suckered me in. So with that I will rinse and repeat.

:nosoupfortroll:

Need I say more about this thread.
 
Just before this thread goes completely down hill. Are we at an agreement that this reporter is crying wolf for no reason at all?


(and on a note in the current direction of this thread.)

I will always be in favor of a fire based EMS system if it is or is like the one I grew up in and work for now (King County, Washington).
 
FireWA1 said:
Just before this thread goes completely down hill. Are we at an agreement that this reporter is crying wolf for no reason at all?
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No, because he makes some valid points. Plus the more I consider the devils advocate statements I made I think I see more validity to it. Why should the tax payers pay for me to go get food when I could have brought food to work with me?
 
FireWA1 said:
Just before this thread goes completely down hill. Are we at an agreement that this reporter is crying wolf for no reason at all?


(and on a note in the current direction of this thread.)

I will always be in favor of a fire based EMS system if it is or is like the one I grew up in and work for now (King County, Washington).
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We are of mixed opinion because I am siding with the fire dept on this issue.
 
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medic417 said:
No, because he makes some valid points. Plus the more I consider the devils advocate statements I made I think I see more validity to it. Why should the tax payers pay for me to go get food when I could have brought food to work with me?
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The fact that firefighters go out to get groceries surprises anyone? I'm pretty sure that every firefighter movie has a grocery store scene. ;)

If the issue is being out of their district, I agree with those who said that I'd rather they be out of their district and close to quarters, rather than in their district and far away.

My town is over 100 square miles. And surprisingly, other than a huge number of Chinese and Pizza joints, there isn't much to eat at night. If there are multiple crews on, nobody objects to going two minutes over the town line to get food to bring back. If a call drops, the other crew can cover (while the rig on the food run heads directly back to town in the event of a second call), or you're actually closer to the most populated part of town than you would be in quarters.

I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't begrudge the FFs dinner, and it's safer for all concerned if they stay together, which means using their apparatus to travel to the store.
 
EMSLaw said:
The fact that firefighters go out to get groceries surprises anyone? I'm pretty sure that every firefighter movie has a grocery store scene. ;)

If the issue is being out of their district, I agree with those who said that I'd rather they be out of their district and close to quarters, rather than in their district and far away.

My town is over 100 square miles. And surprisingly, other than a huge number of Chinese and Pizza joints, there isn't much to eat at night. If there are multiple crews on, nobody objects to going two minutes over the town line to get food to bring back. If a call drops, the other crew can cover (while the rig on the food run heads directly back to town in the event of a second call), or you're actually closer to the most populated part of town than you would be in quarters.

I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't begrudge the FFs dinner, and it's safer for all concerned if they stay together, which means using their apparatus to travel to the store.
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Why can't they bring food with them to work and not waste any tax payer money? They are not being denied the right to eat but being accused of abusing tax payers. Perhaps we need to stop leaving the station unless it is work related.
 
medic417 said:
No, because he makes some valid points. Plus the more I consider the devils advocate statements I made I think I see more validity to it. Why should the tax payers pay for me to go get food when I could have brought food to work with me?
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What if you forgot, what if there's no more leftovers in the fridge, what if your wife didn't make you anything last night, what if you forgot to go to the store and buy groceries for the fridge?

Is our economy in such a poor state that our strategy to save money is to stop the fire departments from taking their apparatus to the local store so they may get something to eat?

If you want to stop excessive governmental spending, then go to D.C. I know one particular official that likes to spend nearly $50k on week-long vacations.
 
TripsTer said:
What if you forgot, what if there's no more leftovers in the fridge, what if your wife didn't make you anything last night, what if you forgot to go to the store and buy groceries for the fridge?

Is our economy in such a poor state that our strategy to save money is to stop the fire departments from taking their apparatus to the local store so they may get something to eat?

If you want to stop excessive governmental spending, then go to D.C. I know one particular official that likes to spend nearly $50k on week-long vacations.
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If a fire fighter is so ignorant as not being able to plan what to take to work to eat he is to stupid to be using such dangerous equipment and should immediately be fired and not allowed to breed.

What part of pre planning can fire fighters not get? Plan meals in advance and bring the groceries to the station. Heck we often agree what we want and who will bring what. Plus you can always keep some emergency supplies in the locker so you will not starve.
 
medic417 said:
Why can't they bring food with them to work and not waste any tax payer money? They are not being denied the right to eat but being accused of abusing tax payers. Perhaps we need to stop leaving the station unless it is work related.
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Think of it this way. they pay taxes too... so they are just using their tax money to pay for the gas. You pay for everything else. (and they use their money to buy groceries).

The only meal we go to the grocery store for is dinner. Everything else is a free for all.
 
FireWA1 said:
Think of it this way. they pay taxes too... so they are just using their tax money to pay for the gas. You pay for everything else. (and they use their money to buy groceries).

The only meal we go to the grocery store for is dinner. Everything else is a free for all.
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But again why do they have to go get food? Why can they not plan it out and bring the stuff with them? Heck only 24 hours at the station is not enough to claim they are going crazy and just need to get out.

There are people that work for a whole lot less money and are not allowed to leave their job sites for meals. They have to clock out and if they did not bring food they go hungry. Why are fire fighters any better?
 
medic417 said:
But again why do they have to go get food? Why can they not plan it out and bring the stuff with them? Heck only 24 hours at the station is not enough to claim they are going crazy and just need to get out.

There are people that work for a whole lot less money and are not allowed to leave their job sites for meals. They have to clock out and if they did not bring food they go hungry. Why are fire fighters any better?
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I know of two departments in my area that work (or worked) 48 hour shifts. (I think they might have changed it to 24's to help with stress). Ill admit I won't go crazy if I don't leave the station but it really does get boring sitting around in the afternoon if all you have done all day is sit around a do paperwork. Going to the store is a nice mental brain break. Plus we do a lot of community outreach then. Hand out a hat if a little kid wants one. Heck a hand full of time we have kids asking for a tour of the truck so one guy stays behind and shows the truck off while everyone else gets dinner.

So yes we could sit down and decide what we want to eat the shift before and bring all the food then. But I feel the community outreach is worth it.
 
FireWA1 said:
I know of two departments in my area that work (or worked) 48 hour shifts. (I think they might have changed it to 24's to help with stress). Ill admit I won't go crazy if I don't leave the station but it really does get boring sitting around in the afternoon if all you have done all day is sit around a do paperwork. Going to the store is a nice mental brain break. Plus we do a lot of community outreach then. Hand out a hat if a little kid wants one. Heck a hand full of time we have kids asking for a tour of the truck so one guy stays behind and shows the truck off while everyone else gets dinner.

So yes we could sit down and decide what we want to eat the shift before and bring all the food then. But I feel the community outreach is worth it.
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Community PR can be scheduled at schools not the random meeting in a parking lot. Scheduled is much more efficient.
 
It is also very structured and focused towards the kids. The spontaneous parking lot events allow the parents to be involved as well. They can ask questions and interact as well. I feel it can be more effective to the one or two families that are involved than the large group events.

Can't forget about the random people showing up to the station asking for a tour.
 
medic417 said:
If a fire fighter is so ignorant as not being able to plan what to take to work to eat he is to stupid to be using such dangerous equipment and should immediately be fired and not allowed to breed.

What part of pre planning can fire fighters not get? Plan meals in advance and bring the groceries to the station. Heck we often agree what we want and who will bring what. Plus you can always keep some emergency supplies in the locker so you will not starve.
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So someone who is bold enough to propose that people should lose their jobs and not be allowed to reproduce because they possibly cannot remember something, obviously has not ever forgotten anything in their lifetime and must be a god.

Okay, let's fire all those guys then. Let's fire everyone who is prone to possibly forget their lunch. We'll make a ridiculously hard memory test in the CSE and if they can't pass it, they can't become firemen.

See how many firemen you have left after that, and how many make it past that CSE.

My house likes to cook, and we actually take turns each week where the person assigned goes to get groceries before the shift and brings it when they come in.

So say it's the rookie's week and he forgets, or the guy assigned calls in sick, and there doesn't happen to be anything else in the fridge at the station. I like the fact that we can still go out to get something from the store, very rarely do we need to do that but I like to know that's an option.

And say you somehow get your local FD to stop going to the grocery store. Exactly how much are you looking to get back into your pocket?
 
We work in a small town and the local FF and VFD both duty crews will take an apparatus into town to eat, usually on a fuel run anyway. They are lucky enough to also live in district for the most part. We on the other do not live nearby and regularly take the unit to the grocery store to get food or out to eat. Unfortunately for us the nearest grocery store is out of our territory. We have it in our SOPs that we are allowed to make these runs, also we are allowed to get food from nearby eateries out of district as long as we get it to go. Our town is VERY VERY limited on food choices. As for taking food with us to the station, it is an option but for us alot of the crew is coming from another job and then going to another job so carrying 3-4 days of food with you is not practical. I dont find anything wrong with making sure Im fueled to do my job.
 
medic417 said:
But again why do they have to go get food? Why can they not plan it out and bring the stuff with them? Heck only 24 hours at the station is not enough to claim they are going crazy and just need to get out.

There are people that work for a whole lot less money and are not allowed to leave their job sites for meals. They have to clock out and if they did not bring food they go hungry. Why are fire fighters any better?
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I believe I stated just this point about 4 pages ago.....

That all being said, I don't care what they do, and no one here has any right to say otherwise. If a volunteer FD somewhere wants to take a truck to get food, i don't care. if paid FD somewhere wants to have every truck to the store, i still don't care.

The only people who has a say is the local tax payers. meaning, only a person from Boston's (or wherever this department is located) opinion matters. it's their money, not mine. I don't care if fairfax Va lets their fire trucks get food, unless I am in fairfax Va (and if I am, then i have every right to complain, because it is the fuel my tax dollars pay for).

It's a local issue that WE are making a bigger issue than it needs to be. Let the local taxpayers tell the reporter that they don't care if the FD shops while on duty. As long as they are available to respond to alarms in their response area...
 
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