Light or No Lights?

[Jim37F]

He may not be breaking state law. It all depends where your at. In CA I believe there is no state law on how fast we can go in code 3 operations (L/S) but company policy is no more than 10mph above the posted limit not to exceed 75mph.

Even when going Code 3, you must always drive with due regard for the safety of others. When you're going Code 3, you're the most hazardous/dangerous thing out on the road. Failure to drive with due regard is a very bad thing...

I completely agree with your sentiment Akulahawk, driving with due regard is vital, but it does have to be noted that in plenty of areas, driving 10mph over the posted limit means you're the slowest driver on the road lol

(Serious note, that's usually on the freeways where we aren't allowed to drive code anyway)

 

[Jim37F]

No... it's just highly highly advised.

Ah. I was always told in ride alongs and orientations and what not it was a statewide no-no to drive L&S on the freeway and seen enough other rigs t shut down while on the onramp and hit the lights on the off ramp I always just accepted it at face value it was a law somewhere

 

[Akulahawk]

Ah. I was always told in ride alongs and orientations and what not it was a statewide no-no to drive L&S on the freeway and seen enough other rigs t shut down while on the onramp and hit the lights on the off ramp I always just accepted it at face value it was a law somewhere

I have yet to see a law, regulation, or local rule by a governmental agency that requires me to shut down from code 3 travel when getting on or off a freeway. That being said, it would not be unheard of for a company to institute that rule and enforce it on their drivers.

 

[JPINFV]

I have yet to see a law, regulation, or local rule by a governmental agency that requires me to shut down from code 3 travel when getting on or off a freeway. That being said, it would not be unheard of for a company to institute that rule and enforce it on their drivers.

Basically this. IIRC, there's a little blub in the DMV book discouraging it, but that's it.

 

[DesertMedic66]

I'm sure it's been asked, but does anyone turn their lights off for freeway driving? Unless the accident is there.

No point in using L&S on the freeways here. Traffic is already going 70mph (more like 80 in my area). So it would be pointless. Now if there is heavy traffic going slower than 15mph we can light up per company policy and cruise the shoulder of the freeways.

 

[Jim37F]

I have yet to see a law, regulation, or local rule by a governmental agency that requires me to shut down from code 3 travel when getting on or off a freeway. That being said, it would not be unheard of for a company to institute that rule and enforce it on their drivers.

Hmm...come to think of it neither have I. Like I said I was always told don't do it, and seen enough other providers shut down on the freeway that I had just assumed it was a state thing. Looks like I'll have to investigate further. At the very least it is a no no at our company

 

[hobozach]

I would hope everyone ( who actually transport codes) runs no lights and siren for them.(codes)

If there is no medic in the back we go hot to the hospital after 3 rounds of CPR on-scene.

 

[xrsm002]

Quite frankly, yes. If running hot was so much of a danger issue for EMS than agencies that run hot would have to pay their medics and EMT's more than agencies that don't, The best I can tell agencies that never run hot (IFT) have to pay their EMS more than most 911 agencies despite the fact that the job carries much much less risk. Clearly amount of risk is not an issue for the majority of EMS employees (judging by salaries of EMS systems that carry the highest risk).

Firefighters running into every building and Police chasing every car is apples and oranges.

I am fairly sure firefighters run into basically every building with a person in it that is even remotely viable and many that are not. Police (I would venture) would also run code and chase a car if there was a kidnapped person in it. Thus we run code to every call that is even remotely deemed to be life threatening regardless of the statistics.



EMS is a business, and we will ALWAYS (generally) do what benefits patient perception over what benefits patient outcome.

I worked for an IFT and running hot was fairly common. We had lots of calls we ran hot. My last day I ran an active MI transfer from the air ambulance to the ER hot.

 

[xrsm002]

correct . code 2 is lights and sirens but following the speed limit. You can get diverted to another call.

code 3 is lights and sirens and 10 mph over speed limit. You cannot get diverted from a code 3 except in some extreme circumstances.

From what I understand in different states or even departments in the same state code 1,2 & 3 can all mean something totally different. Code 1 no lights or sirens, code 2 lights no siren code 3 is both. I know in Texas if your running lights your required to have your siren on, I asked a friend of mine who is also a judge about that.

 

[emt11]

From what I understand in different states or even departments in the same state code 1,2 & 3 can all mean something totally different. Code 1 no lights or sirens, code 2 lights no siren code 3 is both. I know in Texas if your running lights your required to have your siren on, I asked a friend of mine who is also a judge about that.

From some friends that work at Grady in downtown Atlanta. Their system is Code 1 is lights and sirens, Code 2 is lights and sirens but can be re routed to a higher priority call and code 3 is no lights or sirens.

 

[DesertMedic66]

And for my company Code 1 means we know we have the call but we can take our time and get there when we want (code 1 is never used). Code 2 means no lights and no sirens but we have to head directly to the call, we can get diverted. Code 3 is Lights and Sirens. We can not get diverted to another call.

 

[BasicBek]

Stop and clear intersections, don't be swerving, only oppose when absolutely necessary, lights and sirens do not mean you have to speed, and more. Assume every other driver is a complete idiot and there will be a car going through that red light at the same time you are if you don't stop and clear first.

I believe proper drivers training, reinforced regularly, and actually enforcing ECOC rules and punishing ambulance drivers that don't abide by them can and will have a significant impact on reducing the danger. On top of knowing when and when not to use this particular tool.

And if you still wish you didn't have to run L&S, maybe it's time to transfer to an IFT only company or health care facility

I agree. Working at an ALS service that goes emergent (L&S) to every call, with little to no accidents, and being one of the busiest systems in the world, tells me our medics are driving correctly. If it's an issue in your service then people need to either be trained or move to an IFT service. Or maybe the public needs to be more educated. Everyone here knows who we are, we are in the public every second of every day because we post and do not have stations, everywhere we go we are talked to, waved at, and thanked on occasion. We run hundreds of calls in this city every day, everyone knows and people are pretty abiding to our needs to get to a call.

 

[rmabrey]

If there is no medic in the back we go hot to the hospital after 3 rounds of CPR on-scene.

Why? They're dead. Bouncing down the the road while ATTEMPTING CPR only is only going to keep them there.

 

[morbusstrangularis]

Interesting thread. I've worked for private companies only, one providing 911 services with the fire department (a horrible arrangement, don't get me started on that) and another that ran IFT and had contracts with nursing facilities. They would call us instead of 911, because just about anytime you call 911 here, you get a rig, an engine, and at least one LEO. They all usually come in hot, are loud, and would disrupt the (often senile and easily agitated) residents.

For the 911 service, we ran hot to everything except SWAT standbys. Kind of pointless, in my opinion, as fire there thought they were gods, and although we were ALS, fire had medical and scene control - it was rare they wouldn't have at least one fire ride back in on everything. They probably would be better staffed with a single EMT driving the rig, that way the EMT couldn't point out that it might be a good idea to get a 12 lead and a line before giving nitro, but I digress... Emergent returns were at the discretion of the attending provider, no protocols for required C3 returns.

For the private service, dispatch (without the aid of computers or cards) would decide response priority. More often than not, we came in non-emergent. Since we had contracts all over the greater metro area, sometimes we would run hot simply because we were greater than 10 miles away and the nursing facilities around here are not known for their good medical judgment. The owners of the company would also play fast and loose with these rules, sometimes just to impress a facility or client, we would be told to step it up to get to a hospital discharge; or the one time a BLS crew didn't call in for a refusal - they were told to run hot back to the scene to get the doc a piece of information they had forgotten. As far as emergent returns, company policy dictated that they were at the attending provider's discretion, however after determining exactly once that an emergent return was warranted (craziest thing, patient exhibited contralateral decorticate/decerabrate posturing and a severely altered LOC, my partner and I were like quad the :censored::censored::censored::censored due to the fact that it was rush hour and shortened our transport time from about 30 to 12 minutes, the company, for their own reasons, used it to discipline me. Essentially what I'm getting at is while they had a decent system for response priorities (depending on who was dispatching), they only played lip service to what was written in their handbook.

 

[spnjsquad]

No matter what our BLS rig goes lights and sirens to scene unless told not to by dispatch. Sometimes we do use lights and sirens for BLS only transport, the only times that we don't are mental transports and anything stupid (like someone showing no obvious signs of severe distress).

 

[Medic Tim]

No matter what our BLS rig goes lights and sirens to scene unless told not to by dispatch. Sometimes we do use lights and sirens for BLS only transport, the only times that we don't are mental transports and anything stupid (like someone showing no obvious signs of severe distress).

I hope you realize that the " anything stupid " calls are what keep us employed. A very poor attitude and outlook..... Especially for a student .

 

[Handsome Robb]

Especially when you list psych transports as your example.

 

[broken stretcher]

Our dispatchers us MPDS... medical priority dispatch system. calls get classified as priority 1, 2, 3. Theres also priority 2 "condition white" which is a priority 3 call with the option of going hot (2) or cold (3)

 

[spnjsquad]

I hope you realize that the " anything stupid " calls are what keep us employed. A very poor attitude and outlook..... Especially for a student .

Hey easy there. You should know what I mean by a "stupid" call. I shouldn't have used that word to describe it, but you should know what I mean. We have all been there with a paitent who has no legitimate reason for calling 911, and we have been there with paitents who lie about their suspected condition just to get a bed and meal for the night. Why don't you look at the "Most Rediculous Call" post?

 

[spnjsquad]

Especially when you list psych transports as your example.

Also, I never listed psych transports as stupid. I said that we do not use lights or sirens on them. Look at my above reply, then try to understand what I was trying to say.