I failed again for the 3rd time NREMT-P, please help!!

[DrankTheKoolaid]

re

I thought that way at one time, but as I see more and more good people stumble over mutliple choice exams that do not measure any level of knowledge, but the ability to identify similar concepts I have had a change of heart.



While stimulating for debate, this is not the case. University classes are designed that 75% fall within the C average in a gausian distribution. As EMS very very slowly moves into an education rather than a vocation, it will have to meet the same criteria that other educational programs fall into.

This past year, the US EMS school I teach at received its certification audit. Now one of the State criteria for certification of the educational institution is an attrition rate below 20%

This is done for a couple of reasons.

The most important is to put a premium on front end selection, to make sure unqualified candidates are not simply being used as a cash cow and droppped before examination so the pass rate is high enough to maintain the school's certification.

The other is for the protection of the students who will in all likelyhood be taking out educational loans in order to pay for the classes. Allowing students in and then dropping them without refund saddles them with an educational debt that will not go away and not give them the opportunity to enter a workforce in order to pay off said debt.

Any organization that has a fail rate of >25% probably has serious organizational deficencies if not teaching staff who need to be unemployed.

The purpose of education is to teach, not to weed out.

I find it rather ironic that practicioners in perhaps the world's most dysfunctional healthcare system talk about weeding people out.

Especially considering that there are very few healthcare systems that have ancillary providers outside of nursing and radiology and nobody else has anywhere near the level of them the US does.

If you want to start weeding people out, unecessary providers are a better start than candidates.

Nicely said.

Before going into education myself I used to say there was no such thing as a bad class, just bad students. Reason being as long as you received a textbook etc etc on the material to be covered you as the student had the responsibility to read study learn it. Now being on the other side I realize that is just not the case. With so many learning styles, if the instructor is not in tune to or even understands what they are then a good majority of a class will struggle or even fail. OP has not reposted to say if he was able to sit through the NREMT due to military status or taking a traditional course. If taking a traditional course something obviously was missed. Be it his test taking skills ( coping strategies for testing anxiety ) or he simply never had a true fundemental understanding of the material.

To restate the obvious, NREMT CBT really is not a good measure of a paramedics ability or knowledge in my opinion. Instead it tests the students ability to test as there are very few straight forward questions on it.

 

[CHITOWNMEDIC]

NREMT Refresher .

Another idea is to see if anyone near you has a refresher. Loyola Hospital outside Chicago has one & I've heard that it has helped with some others that had been having a difficult time with the exam process .

 

[julesdamedic]

Hello, let me first start by saying I got cut off at 80 question and I left out of the testing center feeling somewhat good about it. Well I got my results and I didnt pass for the 3rd time and very upset as I want to pass this darn test more than anything right now. I was using the website emt-national-training and had been scroing very high in it. I also used and purchased passmedics notes as well. I was wondering if there was something else other than fisdap study tools which I just purchased that could help me? Also Im not in EMS im in the military so how would I go about getting a 48hr refresher and submitted in, as they are telling me this is required in order to take it again? Thanks for all your help!

Did you take the fisdap exam or just the study tools? If you're doing the same things over and over...you'll get the same result.

 

[BigBad]

Did you have this kind of trouble during your classroom exams?

 

[usafmedic45]

This past year, the US EMS school I teach at received its certification audit. Now one of the State criteria for certification of the educational institution is an attrition rate below 20%

Then you start cranking up the entrance requirements. Either way, about 50-75% of current EMS students have no business being allowed out in the field.

I find it rather ironic that practicioners in perhaps the world's most dysfunctional healthcare system talk about weeding people out.

The prehospital side of the coin is dysfunctional largely due to the practice of letting just about anyone with a body temperature above ambient to get their credentials.

Any organization that has a fail rate of >25% probably has serious organizational deficencies if not teaching staff who need to be unemployed.

It's odd because the folks that did pass had scores in the high 80s to low 90s so I'm guessing it wasn't due to poor education. There are just a lot of really lazy and/or stupid EMS students out there.

 

[RocketMedic]

Im an active duty medic more than willing to help tutor you, in person if youre on Fort Bliss. PM me if youre interested.

 

[DV_EMT]

oh, I love these threads

Oh quite... it's always fun to see the bantering ^_^

 

[calypso]

This test does NOT prove AT ALL weather or not you’re going to be an awesome Paramedic or a crappy paramedic. So for those who think someone needs to change occupations based on an exam they have failed 3x or 5x is a total moron!!..

 

[STXmedic]

This test does NOT prove AT ALL weather or not you’re going to be an awesome Paramedic or a crappy paramedic. So for those who think someone needs to change occupations based on an exam they have failed 3x or 5x is a total moron!!..

You mean somebody that can't grasp the BASIC concepts of the profession (which is what NREMT tests) should be allowed to practice? Because I sure as hell wouldn't want them touching me. Or are you going with the "Poor test-taking" approach? ie Not good or clear-headed under stressful situations. Because I wouldn't want them touching me either.

Maybe not absolutely change careers, but it should be seriously thought about. My A&P teacher once told me "Structure determines function." I may want with all my will to be a pro football player; that, however, will never happen. I lack the physical capability from a genetic standpoint. I may want to be a famous artist. Also will not happen, I am not wired to be artistic. Just because this isn't your strong-suit does not make you a failure. You just need to determine your function.

 

[calypso]

So taking a test and actually working on someone is the same? is that what your saying?...I have talked to Several Paramedic instructors and one in Particular said that his best medic students were not the ones that got 100% on all tests and Passed the NREMT on the first try but the ones that Barely passed the course and took a few times to pass the NREMT. I asked why and he said because those students are a genius when it comes to hands on and common sense versus textbook knowledge students who don’t have a clue on what to do when they are put in real life situations.

 

[mycrofft]

Knowledge allows you to make correct decisions

Tests indicate the amount of knowledge. Now, test anxiety can mask knowledge, but people who can't pass the test generally didn't get it in class so they won't have it in the field.

The moron is the one who wades in and tries to do things she/he shouldn't because they don't know what they are doing. The smart person is the one who either finds a way to beat test anxiety, or realizes they are knowledge deficient and figure how to either fix it, or set it aside and aim elsewhere. The OP is not a moron.
LEt's cut out the moron stuff.

 

[STXmedic]

So taking a test and actually working on someone is the same? is that what your saying?...I have talked to Several Paramedic instructors and one in Particular said that his best medic students were not the ones that got 100% on all tests and Passed the NREMT on the first try but the ones that Barely passed the course and took a few times to pass the NREMT. I asked why and he said because those students are a genius when it comes to hands on and common sense versus textbook knowledge students who don’t have a clue on what to do when they are put in real life situations.

Oh, well in that case I retract my statement! If your paramedic instructor said that, it MUST be true! After all, paramedic instructors are all-knowing gods of prehospital medicine!

/end sarcasm.

So you're telling me that someone that does not have a firm grip on the science that is medicine, can not pass a test over the basics of what they just went to school a year for, but can start an IV like a pro makes a great medic? ...If that's what helps you sleep at night, keep telling yourself that. The best medics that I'VE ever had the pleasure of working with were all quite brilliant, extremely book smart, and passed the test the first time around. And amazingly, apparently book smarts and common sense CAN coexist :-o Crazy, whod-a-thunk it h34r:

Conversely, I've known many medics who did pass after failing it once, TWICE, or even three times. I wouldn't let the majority of those medics touch my dog, let alone my family. I could care less how well you can intubate, if you can start IVs with your eyes closed, or whatever other hands on skills you can think of. And if you're becoming a paramedic and the only thing you have to offer is common sense....... *sigh*

But then again, an instructor DID tell you that that's what makes a great medic.

 

[usafmedic45]

I wouldn't let the majority of those medics touch my dog, let alone my family.

Hell, if I could stop them from touching themselves, I would...but you know the slow and weak amongst us must have some way to occupy their time between retesting.

 

[traumaluv2011]

I talked to a lot of classmates from my EMT class that finished back in May. It seems like I'm one of the few people that passed. Everyone has either been too busy to take it or has been trying to pass the practical, which I passed the first time.

 

[Handsome Robb]

So taking a test and actually working on someone is the same? is that what your saying?...I have talked to Several Paramedic instructors and one in Particular said that his best medic students were not the ones that got 100% on all tests and Passed the NREMT on the first try but the ones that Barely passed the course and took a few times to pass the NREMT. I asked why and he said because those students are a genius when it comes to hands on and common sense versus textbook knowledge students who don’t have a clue on what to do when they are put in real life situations.

I get great grades in class. Does that mean I can't apply it in the field? By this statement that's what you're implying.

Ask my partner how he feels about the care I provide.

Don't poke your nose where it doesn't belong, please. I'm with Fast on this one, except for a few statistical anomalies if you can't pass the NREMT in a couple tries you have no business caring for people. That goes for any level, B, I or P.

 

[calypso]

You’re missing the point. Based on what the paramedic teacher told me and from his experience most of the students that barely pass the class tend to become better paramedics than those who passed with ease. I didn’t say that he said ALL. And you’re completely wrong on if you can't pass the NREMT in a couple tries you have no business caring for people... For example,

Henry Ford had 5 failed Business's before he founded ford motor company. I guess he shouldn’t be in the business field after the first few attempts right?

Bill Gates first Business was a failure after dropping out of Harvard.


Albert Einstein: Most of us take Einstein's name as synonymous with genius, but he didn't always show such promise. Einstein did not speak until he was four and did not read until he was seven, causing his teachers and parents to think he was mentally handicapped, slow and anti-social. Eventually, he was expelled from school and was refused admittance to the Zurich Polytechnic School. It might have taken him a bit longer, but most people would agree that he caught on pretty well in the end, winning the Nobel Prize and changing the face of modern physics.

So I guess those who haven’t passed the NREMT on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and
5th time are mentally handicapped right?

Thomas Edison: In his early years, teachers told Edison he was "too stupid to learn anything." Work was no better, as he was fired from his first two jobs for not being productive enough. Even as an inventor, Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts at inventing the light bulb. Of course, all those unsuccessful attempts finally resulted in the design that worked.

He has no business continuing on after the first 100 attempts right?

Stephen King: The first book by this author, the iconic thriller Carrie, received 30 rejections, finally causing King to give up and throw it in the trash. His wife fished it out and encouraged him to resubmit it, and the rest is history, with King now having hundreds of books published the distinction of being one of the best-selling authors of all time.

Michael Jordan: Most people wouldn't believe that a man often lauded as the best basketball player of all time was actually cut from his high school basketball team. Luckily, Jordan didn't let this setback stop him from playing the game and he has stated, "I have missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot, and I missed. I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."



So to the person that has failed a few times already, I say don’t give up. You will get it and you will make a fantastic EMT-B or P.

 

[Remeber343]

Or he will end up seriously hurting or killing a patient due to incompetents.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Or he will end up seriously hurting or killing a patient due to incompetents.

This.

Calypso I see what you're saying but you're comparing apples to bananas.

From everyone that I've talked to the NREMT isn't a tough test whatsoever. The school I go to has something like a 95% first time pass rate on it and near 100% on the second attempt.

Sure you can get screwed by missing the one and only ops question, but if that's the case you damn well better spend some time studying ops so you don't do it again.

Like I said before there are exceptions to the rule but if you can't troubleshoot why you're failing a test how do you expect to troubleshoot why someone's life is circling the toilet in front of your eyes?

 

[STXmedic]

You’re missing the point. Based on what the paramedic teacher told me and from his experience most of the students that barely pass the class tend to become better paramedics than those who passed with ease. I didn’t say that he said ALL. And you’re completely wrong on if you can't pass the NREMT in a couple tries you have no business caring for people... For example,

Henry Ford had 5 failed Business's before he founded ford motor company. I guess he shouldn’t be in the business field after the first few attempts right?

Bill Gates first Business was a failure after dropping out of Harvard.


Albert Einstein: Most of us take Einstein's name as synonymous with genius, but he didn't always show such promise. Einstein did not speak until he was four and did not read until he was seven, causing his teachers and parents to think he was mentally handicapped, slow and anti-social. Eventually, he was expelled from school and was refused admittance to the Zurich Polytechnic School. It might have taken him a bit longer, but most people would agree that he caught on pretty well in the end, winning the Nobel Prize and changing the face of modern physics.

So I guess those who haven’t passed the NREMT on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and
5th time are mentally handicapped right?

Thomas Edison: In his early years, teachers told Edison he was "too stupid to learn anything." Work was no better, as he was fired from his first two jobs for not being productive enough. Even as an inventor, Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts at inventing the light bulb. Of course, all those unsuccessful attempts finally resulted in the design that worked.

He has no business continuing on after the first 100 attempts right?

Stephen King: The first book by this author, the iconic thriller Carrie, received 30 rejections, finally causing King to give up and throw it in the trash. His wife fished it out and encouraged him to resubmit it, and the rest is history, with King now having hundreds of books published the distinction of being one of the best-selling authors of all time.

Michael Jordan: Most people wouldn't believe that a man often lauded as the best basketball player of all time was actually cut from his high school basketball team. Luckily, Jordan didn't let this setback stop him from playing the game and he has stated, "I have missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot, and I missed. I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."



So to the person that has failed a few times already, I say don’t give up. You will get it and you will make a fantastic EMT-B or P.

http://www.taylorstudymethod.com/eppp-blog/comments/failure-and-the-eppp-looking-on-the-bright-side

LMAO!!

Guess what none of your famous failures had: The opportunity to readily cause harm to people on a daily basis. Medicine is not business. Medicine is not sports, writing, production, computer engineering or whatever other profession you feel to insert! If you don't get the correct filament in a lightbulb, people don't DIE! While not every call is life and death, the opportunity to cause harm will present itself. How about some failed medical providers:

http://www.bwglaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1368170.html

http://www.thelegalguardian.com/EMS_Case_Review.php#

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-07/...orney-ed-chernoff-conrad-murray?_s=PM:JUSTICE

There are MANY far more relevant examples, but sifting through them on my phone is no fun. USAF I'm sure has an abundance of such articles.

 

[calypso]

LMAO!! ANY idiot could forget a key to the medication needed for a call. That has nothing to do with passing or failing an exam or knowledge. That has to do with pure idiocy. And those people are not only in the Medical field. I’m curious to know if that person passed his exam on the first try.

Michael Jackson case are you kidding me. That Dr knew exactly what he was doing. He knew what he was doing was wrong. Once again THIS has nothing to do with passing an exam on the first or fifth time in regard to if a person should not be practicing any field of study based on that.. This is another example of a knowledgeable professional who was making a poor judgment. I would also be curious to know if Murray passed is Doctor of Medicine on the first try or not. I’m going to assume he did.

I’m trying to help a person know that even though he has not passed his exam yet it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be an EMT/Paramedic. Just means that you don’t give up and try a different option on knowing the information and winning the game of the NREMT.